The Bucket Foundry

[Frits Overmars]

Physicists take all the fun from Chemistry.I was more concerned about the reverse situation...

That Scariac didn't scare me all that much. Maybe because I grew up with this system; it was used to control the merry-go-rounds at the fairs.
But back then they didn't use that dangerous drain cleaner; they just filled the device with salt water. You know, the stuff that emits chloric gas when you send an electrical current through it.
(Chloric gas nearly killed me when I made it at home as a kid. I was playing with sulfuric acid and bleech and I can now say: don't try this at home. Or anywhere).

[Flettner]

Slowly assembling the parts.

[husaberg]

Slowly assembling the parts.
that's not slow when you have designed and made most of it from scratch Neil..............

[F5 Dave]

Can you add a gearbox to that? I've been wasting my time with my 496 CPI.

[Flettner]

Can you add a gearbox to that? I've been wasting my time with my 496 CPI.

I have gear clusters in my pattern shop ready for a modified pattern. Will run a ballance shaft.

[F5 Dave]

Will I need a Pari-Dakar tank?

[Flettner]

I have gear clusters in my pattern shop ready for a modified pattern. Will run a ballance shaft.

And a 24 / 7 reed system.
We don't speak of fuel burn.

[Flettner]

More pictures, ballance shaft and drive.

[Flettner]

Water outlets

[WilDun]

More pictures, ballance shaft and drive.

That looks very impressive, you've done a massive lot of work on it lately and if it all works out it'll be a great coup for NZ!
It looks like the parallel twin with the balance shaft has won the battle over both the tandem types whether contra rotating or not, have you given up on them completely?

I'm still practising mould making and have already made about five of them, using a small wooden no-name pattern which I concocted, each one was better than the one before and the last one was perfect except that I hashed it up a little when I cut the gates into it, but next one should be great, I'm using using greensand which I mixed myself - (all tradition style casting to begin with), microwave will have to wait till next week as I need to do a bit more research on it.
Also doing a wooden pattern on the lathe - something more functional, I already know the lathe and have done a little on patterns etc. which will help, but the moulding part is entirely new to me and will take a bit of learning to get it just right!
Hats off to you guys who have got it right - it's a skill which needs hands on learning!

[ken seeber]

Neil,
Absolutely fantastic. You're a legend. Something about Kiwis. Must be something in the water.
There's rewards for passion , dunno what they are, but certainly job satisfaction 100%. Fuck unions, gov't grants, gov't incentives, health and safety crap, do gooders, nimbys, blah, blah.... just get into it and do it. I love it.
Goodonya, Kensational

[WilDun]

Neil,

There's rewards for passion , dunno what they are, but certainly job satisfaction 100%.ve it.
Goodonya, Kensational

Passion for this business which will probably still be there even on on THE big day, is probably the best reward there is, as far as he and people like him are concerned anyway.

[Flettner]

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casting cylinders at our secret development department, deep behind the iron curtain.

[Frits Overmars]

Neil, I know next to nothing about casting so this may well be a dumb question, but why do you pour the molten metal from the top of the crucible, where the impurities are floating, instead of from the bottom, like a tea pot?

Another question: have you ever considered letting the counter balance gears rotate around the engine's exit shaft? It might make for a shorter engine.

[Flettner]

Neil, I know next to nothing about casting so this may be well a dumb question, but why do you pour the molten metal from the top of the crucible, where the impurities are floating, instead of from the bottom, like a tea pot?

Another question: have you ever considered to let the counter balance gears rotate around the engine's exit shaft? It might make for a shorter engine.

You want my secrets:lol:

Real foundrys probably have such crucibles but I don't, we clear the inpurities off before pouring plus you can use ceramic filters in the sand moulds for that very reason. I don't because I don't have any. You just be careful when you pour.

Yes I was looking at running the bob weights around the output shaft but it would have meant putting gear drive at each end of the engine, one for each bob weight. This way I only use one drive, the bob weight drive is under the carbs anyway.

By the way the furnace runs on spare Kawasaki F9 fuel, ethanol with a hint of castor, perfume!

I know this all looks a little "Dad and dave" but it works for me.

[Frits Overmars]

You want my secrets:lol:
Real foundrys probably have such crucibles but I don't, we clear the inpurities off before pouring plus you can use ceramic filters in the sand moulds for that very reason. I don't because I don't have any. You just be careful when you pour.
Yes I was looking at running the bob weights around the output shaft but it would have meant putting gear drive at each end of the engine, one for each bob weight. This way I only use one drive, the bob weight drive is under the carbs anyway.
By the way the furnace runs on spare Kawasaki F9 fuel, ethanol with a hint of castor, perfume!
I know this all looks a little "Dad and dave" but it works for me.I knew you would have your reasons, Neil.
Next question: what is "Dad and dave"? Oh well, let's save that for another occasion. Maybe when I visit NZ (if I can find a sponsor :rolleyes:).

[Grumph]

I knew you would have your reasons, Neil.
Next question: what is "Dad and dave"? Oh well, let's save that for another occasion. Maybe when I visit NZ (if I can find a sponsor :rolleyes:).

If you can beg, borrow or steal an interesting/significant/historic bike to bring out - and demonstrate - there are a couple of Classic/Post Classic race meetings which could be interested in covering costs....

Dad and dave was a radio serial based on life down on the farm...very basic, crude by todays standards. Neil might have the location - and the gumboots - but he definitely doesn't match the rest.

[WilDun]

What are those moulds made of? they look remarkably intact and take quite a knock to get them to fall apart.

Also, I'm sure you told us somewhere before, but what is the flammible powder you put on the sprues and runners to keep them from solidifying too soon?
The next furnace I build will use the same layout as that one - so simple and handy!

I like the tongs - I'm struggling to perfect my one man tongs but I'm going to try and get them right today.

I'm about to make another (6th) practice mould - hoping to get it perfect this time, great fun, but this one should be the one to actually have metal poured into it!




Great job, keep up the good work and the commentary.

[Flettner]

What are those moulds made of? they look remarkably intact and take quite a knock to get them to fall apart.

Also, I'm sure you told us somewhere before, but what is the flammible powder you put on the sprues and runners to keep them from solidifying too soon?
.


Sodium Silicate, CO2 setting sand. Thats what the mixer was built for some pages ago. These moulds are held tegether with sand glue. Flammible powder, I call it magic fairy dust, but that might be somthing else? I'll have a look when I'm back in the workshop. Lunch Time at the moment.

[husaberg]

Sodium Silicate, CO2 setting sand. Thats what the mixer was built for some pages ago. These moulds are held tegether with sand glue. Flammible powder, I call it magic fairy dust, but that might be somthing else? I'll have a look when I'm back in the workshop. Lunch Time at the moment.

The fairy dust is I believe magnesium powder. Burns very hot and delays the cooling in the runners and risers to ensure complete filling.

[F5 Dave]

Can fairy-dust be non magic? I've watched a fair bit on the subject recently thanks to the kids Tinkerbell movies, invariably this dust seems to be of the magic variety or it doesn't cut it. It does however come in different colours.

[WilDun]

Can fairy-dust be non magic? I've watched a fair bit on the subject recently thanks to the kids Tinkerbell movies, invariably this dust seems to be of the magic variety or it doesn't cut it. It does however come in different colours.

Yes, I've had it right up to here with Magic fairy dust, Sophia,Henry Hugglemonster, Jake and the Neverland Pirates etc.etc. can't ever get to see a bike race at a decent time anymore!

Flettner, does that ceramic fibre lining ever singe a little? The stuff I'm trying in the microwave smells a bit and actually seems to singe and apparently even melts where it's exposed to the heat of the crucible in the microwave.

Now got it up to stinking hot after about 20 mins (still no molten metal - too scared to do it for longer as yet in case of overheating).
I now have it raised up a little with a heavy duty hairdryer running on cold pointing into the air inlets underneath it, that seems to be stopping any overheating of the magnetron.
Now ready to try out other setups and suseptor materials, perhaps will get better results. ie. after I've done a pour with the main furnace.

[Flettner]

I knew you would have your reasons, Neil.
Next question: what is "Dad and dave"? Oh well, let's save that for another occasion. Maybe when I visit NZ (if I can find a sponsor :rolleyes:).

No problem, I'm sure Husa will put you up on the wild west coast, might be subject to the Valcan mind probe though:blink:
And I'm sure I could do with a workshop "bitch" that I can order around. Might even teach you some stuff about twostrokes:laugh:

[Frits Overmars]

No problem, I'm sure Husa will put you up on the wild west coast, might be subject to the Valcan mind probe though:blink:Valcan mind probe?? I feel so ignorant...

And I'm sure I could do with a workshop "bitch" that I can order around. Might even teach you some stuff about twostrokes:laugh:That is more or less how I started what I'm doing now. Back in the day I was a technical editor in Holland and I spent my holidays driving to Italy and making a nuisance of myself in the Garelli racing department, trying to convince Jan Thiel of my wild ideas and picking up gems of his experience in return.

[Grumph]

Valcan mind probe?? I feel so ignorant

The West Coast version is simply to keep feeding you beer and questions....Happened to me many years ago at the hands of people I'm sure husa knows.
Given the piss poor West Coast beer and the results the following day, I stay sober over there now.

[Flettner]

Valcan mind probe?? I feel so ignorant...


Think Star Trek
I think also it was a drink at the officers club at Ohakea ( NZ's air force base, Frits ). I would think, why would you drink somthing you could set fire to.

[Frits Overmars]

I think also it was a drink at the officers club at Ohakea ( NZ's air force base, Frits ). I would think, why would you drink something you could set fire to.That's not a problem then. I'll drink anything as long as it'll burn. So that excludes beer.

[F5 Dave]

Think Star Trek
I think also it was a drink at the officers club at Ohakea ( NZ's air force base, Frits ). I would think, why would you drink somthing you could set fire to.
Good greif, those tuning sessions the night before the GPs at Ohakea on the govt subsidised drinks were memorable or sometimes not. Irresponsible but that was a long time ago.

[Flettner]

Good greif, those tuning sessions the night before the GPs at Ohakea on the govt subsidised drinks were memorable or sometimes not. Irresponsible but that was a long time ago.

What was another one? "Suzi Chain Lub", loaded with Kahlua, those were the days:rolleyes:

[WilDun]

What was another one? "Suzi Chain Lub", loaded with Kahlua, those were the days:rolleyes:

The things we did, the stuff we drank, the things we said, makes you cringe!

Flettner do you think I should forget Greensand and do Silica Gel/CO2 instead? - looks like you're having good results with that. I've still got to develop a feel for this mould making, but doing better than I thought I would.

[husaberg]

The things we did, the stuff we drank, the things we said, makes you cringe!

Flettner do you think I should forget Greensand and do Silica Gel/CO2 instead? - looks like you're having good results with that. I've still got to develop a feel for this mould making, but doing better than I thought I would.

Not silica gel. Sodium silicate. (water glass to the old timers)
Although you can make it from Silica gel.
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The chemist or potters supply will also have it.
Its not that expensive to buy and less likely to get you in trouble with the misses than making it would.
The rest Neil can answer.

[Flettner]

I only use co2 setting sand, best results, can use much less taper on the pattern.

[WilDun]

Not silica gel. Sodium silicate. (water glass to the old timers)

Yeah Husa, just said "silica gel" because my feeble old mind wasn't remembering the proper name at that time of night!
I actually have some on hand (from the pottery supplies) also have a full cylinder of CO2 but hadn't finally decided which type of moulding sand to use.

Neil,
The greensand is giving me lot of experience and practice in moulding techniques - I can destroy each one and do it over again easily, so I'll carry on with that and then try CO2 next.
It does look like I should take your lead and eventually go the CO2 way, (they don't fall apart so easily and there is always the possibility of transporting them to wherever I'm doing the pouring).

The tongs which took a while to perfect now work fine (we'll see anyway) - Just made from bits and pieces I had lying around plus a bit of trial and error!

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[Flettner]

Autoflight Ltd trying to save the world from global warming, by shifting the planet out to a higher orbit:laugh:

First of the two heat ranger engines on the test stand, electric throttle testing.

[husaberg]

Autoflight Ltd trying to save the world from global warming, by shifting the planet out to a higher orbit:laugh:

First of the two heat ranger engines on the test stand, electric trottle testing.

You should convince them to do a Ethanol version pretty sure they could refine a way of making that with what they have on hand.
Oddly I pictured it with a much larger horizontal prop?

[GerbilGronk]

How smooth does it run on the gas? Does that balance shaft do its job?

[Flettner]

The gas runs smooth, yesterday we had a small problem with the gas regulator not getting any warm water, didn't take long for the regulator to ice up and the engine stop. The ballance shaft weights are a little heavier in this engine as are to crank weights, seems to make the engine very smooth. This ballance shaft is now gear driven off the crank.

[WilDun]

The gas runs smooth, yesterday we had a small problem with the gas regulator not getting any warm water, didn't take long for the regulator to ice up and the engine stop.

Would altitude increase the icing effect on the regulator? I'm really talking about the engine when it's used on a fixed wing aircraft, say 8000 feet - I'm guessing the gyrocopter doesn't normally operate at very high altitudes?

Looks like you are having quite a lot of success so far!
Meanwhile,down here at the bottom end of the scale, my successes are a bit thin on the ground. Tried to melt some ally on my furnace yesterday and to cut a long story short, after half an hour it didn't actually do that!

So back to the drawing board to try to design/make a bigger burner (maybe?), I dunno.

The problem as I see it, was that there was an orange flame coming out the top which to me suggests not enough air, however it didn't work well when I adjusted the choke to give it more air, it just seemed to cycle between a great burst of flame then dying down again, that cycle happened every 5 secs or so.
The burner did work well when it was out of the furnace, having a nice steady roaring blue flame almost invisible in the sunlight, but when in the furnace it produced more of a hissing sound.

Possibly I just need to learn how to tune it properly! :confused:

Any experts on burners here? (specifically LPG gas burners).

[Grumph]

I don't claim to be an expert Wil, but are you actually putting the tip of the torch inside the crucible ? What you report sounds like the typical result of the flame exhausting the free oxygen available to it - dies back - a fresh surge of air arrives and bang it's back up again. Get it occasionally with an oxy/acetylene torch in a confined space. Shouldn't you be heating the crucible from underneath ? If you are heating from underneath, but inside an insulated furnace, you need to allow air in to keep the flame going.
Alternatively, you're low on LPG....

[Pumba]

No furnace expert either, but I do like playing with fire. I agree with Grumph in that it sounds like you are staving the flame.

Are you forcing the air in? Or just relying on natural draw?

[WilDun]

Shouldn't you be heating the crucible from underneath ? If you are heating from underneath, but inside an insulated furnace, you need to allow air in to keep the flame going.
Alternatively, you're low on LPG....

Thanks Grumph,
New 9kg bottle of LPG, a classic furnace type (designed and built by my good self), the crucible sits on a refractory concrete pedestal. The burner tube comes in at a tangent beside/under the crucible. I used a silicon carbide tube for the tuyere (tweer?) with the burner a nice snug fit in it (achieved using cylindrical spacers) on the OD.
Dropped the lid earlier and broke it, so I just had some ceramic wool with a hole cut in it on the top but I doubt if that made any difference (or did it?).
The way the burner performs out of the furnace I think would be adequate to melt at least aluminium, and I think you're right about the air situation, maybe i should try to let more air in by removing or maybe drilling the spacers on the OD, however they are needed to take up the slack and actually hold the burner securely in the ceramic tube.

I think I might have invented an LPG powered pulse jet here! :eek5:

Any suggestions will be welcome, i'm a complete newcomer to this technology and i'm not a "by the book" type of person - sometimes I wish I was, but where's the fun in that? :rolleyes:

[WilDun]

I agree with Grumph in that it sounds like you are staving the flame.

Are you forcing the air in? Or just relying on natural draw?

Sorry Plumba,
Didn't see your post, yes natural draw, I figured it didn't need forced air for just aluminium and I don't think i'm wrong.
Actually, just thinking about it - when I first fired it up, quite a while ago (ie when I didn't have the ceramic tube) and had the burner sitting loosely in the hole, it worked well with a nice blue, almost invisible flame coming out the top - now I think that may be telling me something!

I think you guys have pointed me on the right track.

[MikeT1]

Hi Will, you should not need extra air coming in around the outside of the burner tube, your gas jet may be too big for the size of mixing tube you have. I have a gas fired furnace, it works well for aluminium or brass. I'm based at Tuakau if you are ever in the area look me up.
regards Mike T.

[husaberg]

Sorry Plumba,
Didn't see your post, yes natural draw, I figured it didn't need forced air for just aluminium and I don't think i'm wrong.
Actually, just thinking about it - when I first fired it up, quite a while ago (ie when I didn't have the ceramic tube) and had the burner sitting loosely in the hole, it worked well with a nice blue, almost invisible flame coming out the top - now I think that may be telling me something!

I think you guys have pointed me on the right track.

I can't remember where, but there is a rule of thumb of naturally aspirated forges, for the air entry size outside of the burner dia

[WilDun]

Hi Will, you should not need extra air coming in around the outside of the burner tube, your gas jet may be too big for the size of mixing tube you have.
regards Mike T.

You could well be right on the jet size,
I originally had a home made jet with a 1mm hole (from memory), then I saw an assortment of MIG tips on Trade Me and bought them, I think the one I'm using is 1.2 mm and I can't remember if I used that one or the 1mm when I first fired it up, anyway I'll check it all out.

That however doesn't explain totally why it still works quite well outside the furnace -the flame maybe isn't quite as stable as it was on the smaller jet, but when it's set right it's fine.

I could possibly be out your way soon, but I'll PM you well before I head over, I would be interested in getting a few tips and I can see that I will probably need more than just a few useful tips (no pun intended) if I'm going to learn this sort of stuff properly!

[WilDun]

I can't remember where but there is a rule of thumb of naturally aspirated forges for the air entry size outside of the burner dia

Thanks Husa,
I'll have to try and find that data - I'm not one to sit down and digest screeds of information! I tend to try it first and if it works then I'm happy, never mind the theory! .......On the other hand, when I can't get things completely sorted, that's the time to listen to those experts - not the correct way to do it I know, but it often saves a lot of reading and researching and trying to decide who's theory is right or wrong.

Forums can be good though, with help from everyday types of people.

[Pumba]

I would run the same set up and force a bit more air in with Air compressor/Leaf Blower/Vacumm Cleaner etc. Pretty quick test to see if it resolves the issue.

Actually I have an electric leaf blower in my shed that is taking up space and would be perfect for the task if anyone wants the dam thing

[WilDun]

I would run the same set up and force a bit more air in with Air compressor/Leaf Blower/Vacumm Cleaner etc. Pretty quick test to see if it resolves the issue.

Actually I have an electric leaf blower in my shed ........

Yeah true, but with the setup I have they say that attaching a blower doesn't work, dunno why so I may still end up trying that.
I have a blower taking up space in my garage too, never use it but it's just about powerful enough to blow the furnace away! My wife's got a decent "industrial" size hair drier which I've got my eye on!

[Flettner]

A vacuum cleaner, bit of old exhaust pipe, needle valve and fuel, works well. Air is adjusted by a bit of scrap sheet metal on the suck side of the cleaner, fuel by the needle valve. Fuel pump pressure is via gavity. Melts alloy very fast.

[Flettner]

Autoflight Ltd trying to save the world from global warming, by shifting the planet out to a higher orbit:laugh:

First of the two heat ranger engines on the test stand, electric throttle testing.

Very stressfull day today, sorting out all the little problems with the BIG boss looking over my shoulder all day. BUT finaly at the end of the day target RPM, smooth, safe exhaust temps, safe water temps, although the gearbox breather needs to shift to stop it leaking oil out. Interesting to note gas needs about five degrees more advance than petrol.
All the more difficult running with a gas caburetor, without any real adjustability. If I drank whisky I'd be drunk by now!

[Flettner]

Would altitude increase the icing effect on the regulator? I'm really talking about the engine when it's used on a fixed wing aircraft, say 8000 feet - I'm guessing the gyrocopter doesn't normally operate at very high altitudes?
.

One of my carburetored Gyro's flew over Mt Taranaki a few years ago, I think approx 10,000 feet ( Subaru based engine ).
No, this LPG fueling is only for ground based use ( Heat Ranger ), I'm only testing it on my gyro engine because the other two engines weren't ready. Now we have one up and running and the second in a few days I need not bother with LPG on my gyro again, back to petrol and pre mix!

[WilDun]

A vacuum cleaner, bit of old exhaust pipe, needle valve and fuel, works well. Air is adjusted by a bit of scrap sheet metal on the suck side of the cleaner, fuel by the needle valve. Fuel pump pressure is via gavity. Melts alloy very fast.

I have now changed the gas jet back to a 1mm and may drill one out to 1.1mm (if I can get a drill) - very small increments on jet size seem to make huge differences, hope to try it out when, or if the weather settles down, perhaps today??
I have MIG tips in 0.6, 0.9, 1.0 and 1.2 sizes, these are very cheap and handy with 6mm threads.

Flettner,
A lot of people make mountains out of molehills but you do the opposite, you make molehills out of mountains!
Yes, I guess I could end up trying an oil fired setup, the only possible drawback for me might be the neighbours, however I haven't really tested them out yet, but I do want to remain onside with them (at least on g'day and friendly wave terms).
I'd say there would be some fumes/smoke with diesel (no unlimited supplies of alcohol like you have!). Also a gravity fed fuel system mightn't be feasible, I haven't got a Hiab or anything like that and I'm not allowed climb up ladders or use a "Gung Ho" attitude anymore! - used to do that and came off second best!
I can see that it is a very simple and effective system though.

I may have missed something somewhere, but does the name "heat ranger" apply to the engine, or some ground vehicle you are developing and is the gyrocopter engine basically the same design? (ie parallel twin with balance shaft).

[ken seeber]

Willy,
I checked out our small portable furnace unit, see pics, and it has an inlet hole or, as you said, more correctly called a tuyere I think, of Ø90, the burner has an outside of Ø40 and the face of the burner is outside of the inlet face by 30. Seems to work on, and easy to light. Sounds like you are starving yours from air.


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In one of the pics you can just see the compressor from a fridge. These make good vacuum pumps and we used this for degassing the melt in the small crucibles we used. Next time I’ll put some windows in the “bell” that goes over the hot crucible to see if there are any bubbles actually coming to the surface of the melt.

Also your crucible holder. To me, I reckon that the handle you use with your right hand should be repositioned to be almost opposite from where it is. Just that you are trying to lift the crucible and its contents with this handle, yet you also have to exert a downward torque on the handle, making for a hard wrist action. My thoughts only though, just trying to look after you, yung fella!

[WilDun]

a tuyere I think, of Ø90, the burner has an outside of Ø40 and the face of the burner is outside of the inlet face by 30. Sounds like you are starving yours from air.

Also your crucible holder. To me, I reckon that the handle you use with your right hand should be repositioned to be almost opposite from where it is. Just that you are trying to lift the crucible and its contents with this handle, yet you also have to exert a downward torque on the handle, making for a hard wrist action.

I agree that it's probably starved of air judging by the orange flame coming out the top but I didn't have the choke fully open at the time and when I did open it fully, the thing tried to imitate a pulse jet ( a bit slower of course, maybe a 3 -5 second cycle).
I can muck around and try different jets, I can allow some air to enter around the the outside of the burner, or I can redesign the whole bloody thing, or .... finally, maybe I'll see reason and go Flettner's way!!
BTW, when you mention "the face" do you mean that the part of the burner that protrudes into the furnace?
So I'll tinker with it for a while and see if I can get it sorted (I see no real reason why I can't).

As for the crucible holder, I had to toss up between that position and the one you are advocating and I chose that one so I could put that ring on the top (only useful for lifting it out of the furnace more easily and is just tacked on for the moment), of course I do have to grip it further down for the actual pouring, it's quite possible that I'll do away with the whole handle altogether of course, (awkward either way) but I'll wait till I get better perspective on it with an actual melt and pour before redesigning it into a mark 2.

If I ever get a melt that is! :scratch:

[WilDun]

As it turned out, I did get a melt! -
This afternoon the weather wasn't bad and I had changed the jet back to 1mm, I decided to drag it all outside and give it a trial run, which looked like it was an improvement, got the gas pressure about right with a nice blue flame.
It looked like it needed more air even with the choke fully open and as I increased gas pressure it started that cycling again which could be stopped with lower gas pressure (but smaller flame) so then I started to fiddle with how far in the burner was set in the "tuyere" (ceramic tube) and as I already had it flush with the furnace end of the tube, I pulled it back out a little, then a little more till it was working very well and I was able to turn up the pressure a little more till it seemed very good.
At first I thought that it was because there was more air getting in past the burner tube but eventually I came to the conclusion that it was caused by the flare effect when the end of the burner tube was recessed to the correct depth into the ceramic tube.

I had a bit of an old bread & butter plate positioned on the wall of the furnace to prevent it being destroyed by the hot flame and that was almost white hot in less than 5 mins, so I thought I might try the crucible which was red hot in 5 minutes or so, then of course, it was "what the hell, let's try some ally as well", which I did and in about 20 mins total, voila! molten aluminium!!

Tried out my tongs which worked fine, poured it into some greensand and I had done my first successful pour! - just a blob in the sand really (no smoke at all). - think I'll cut down that inner handle with the ring to just a stump and that should be enough to give me a grip to turn it when pouring.
I now see that maybe holding the main handle underneath (with right hand) and swivelling my wrist "axially" that there would be better weight bearing and much more travel available from my wrist when pouring - good point Ken!
I do feel that I could possibly let everything just swivel in my right hand and use the left hand for turning - we'll see.

The burner theory here isn't really important right now, (if anyone has a theory I would be willing to listen though) - but it has all worked well for the moment and I'm happy!

Must say I didn't like the quality of the ally though, quite a coarse grain when broken, might've been high silicon, I dunno, but it doesn't really matter for this purpose.

Next melt, I'll try a pattern and mould, - should sleep well tonight though!

Thanks all you guys for your input.

[MikeT1]

Good to hear it is working ok for you now, the next fun part is making some parts. My biggest problem is finding a reliable parting compound for green sand, have had no luck with talcum powder it works more like glue! the best results have been with graphite, but I don't want to use that with aluminium, it is a no no even to mark aircraft ally with a pencil, aparently causes electrolysis. I can see why Flettner uses sodium silicate bonded sand. Got a bunch of patterns ready to do a pour in the very near future.
regards Mike T.

[Flettner]

Good to hear it is working ok for you now, the next fun part is making some parts. My biggest problem is finding a reliable parting compound for green sand, have had no luck with talcum powder it works more like glue! the best results have been with graphite, but I don't want to use that with aluminium, it is a no no even to mark aircraft ally with a pencil, aparently causes electrolysis. I can see why Flettner uses sodium silicate bonded sand. Got a bunch of patterns ready to do a pour in the very near future.
regards Mike T.

You will post pictures for us?

[Yow Ling]

Good to hear it is working ok for you now, the next fun part is making some parts. My biggest problem is finding a reliable parting compound for green sand, have had no luck with talcum powder it works more like glue! the best results have been with graphite, but I don't want to use that with aluminium, it is a no no even to mark aircraft ally with a pencil, aparently causes electrolysis. I can see why Flettner uses sodium silicate bonded sand. Got a bunch of patterns ready to do a pour in the very near future.
regards Mike T.

Pictures of your steambike would be pretty interesting too, maybe Flettner could make a steam gyro

[WilDun]

Good to hear it is working ok for you now, the next fun part is making some parts. My biggest problem is finding a reliable parting compound for green sand, have had no luck with talcum powder it works more like glue!

Mike, - Being a bit green around the gills and ignorant of the "proper" ways of doing things, I tend to try anything, so for one of my practice moulds I tried using gladwrap instead of parting powder! - and (to me) it seemed to work quite well, its just that you need to slit it where the holes go.
PS I'm only talking about seperating the two halves of the the flask with the sand in place - guess you're discussing taking the patterns from the sand.

[WilDun]

Also your crucible holder. To me, I reckon that the handle you use with your right hand should be repositioned to be almost opposite from where it is. Just that you are trying to lift the crucible and its contents with this handle, yet you also have to exert a downward torque on the handle, making for a hard wrist action.

KEN,
Tried the suggestion you made about handle positioning and it's good! - I had to move it out slightly to clear the furnace casing but that wasn't a problem!
Thanks for the tip. :niceone:

[Flettner]

Wow, imagine that!
https://youtu.be/-fo7SmNuUU4

[husaberg]

Wow, imagine that!
https://youtu.be/-fo7SmNuUU4

Amazing stuff 4 valves per cylinder as well.
Shame so many surplus units were blown to bits in offshore racing in the states up until the 70's
Most of the modern metals and treatments were developed by RR.
Even the Yanks had to cede that it was better than anything they had which is why the last of the Mustangs were Merlin powered.

[speedpro]

It's worth having a close look at the heads on the Merlin. The Mitsi 1800 engine in my old Libero had a similar valve actuation mechanism with a central camshaft acting on rockers that operated a pair of valves on each side, all rollers of course. Very very sweet engineering. Those crankshafts were lovely engineering as well, the whole engine was actually.

[ken seeber]

Wow, imagine that!
https://youtu.be/-fo7SmNuUU4

I'm gunna get a pipe. Must say though, it was a pretty impressive effort.

[Grumph]

It's worth having a close look at the heads on the Merlin. The Mitsi 1800 engine in my old Libero had a similar valve actuation mechanism with a central camshaft acting on rockers that operated a pair of valves on each side, all rollers of course. Very very sweet engineering. Those crankshafts were lovely engineering as well, the whole engine was actually.

The Merlin only became a practical proposition once Packard had redrawn it for production. And once they'd set up for proper production methods. RR basically hand built each one with hours of hand fitting to achieve correct clearances because they couldn't make a run of parts even close to the same...

The best Merlin story is from the young uni grad who RR brought in to look at the blower airflow. He boosted it from around 1200HP to over 2000 in the final versions. Gets my vote for tuner of that decade. Later designed most of their jet engines too. Wrote autobiography "Not much of an engineer", can't remember his name.

[speedpro]

Sir Stanley Hooker

[WilDun]

Adolph Galland ( Ace German pilot) insisted that the Daimler Benz V12 used in the Messerschmitt was a much better engine than the Merlin which he called the "Mermaid".
Admittedly the DB engine was fuel injected and I've heard it said that the precision used in that engine was second to none.
All credit to the Poms though, they managed to produce these engines in really trying conditions with some very old factory machinery - nothing like the cutting edge stuff which Packard had available when they took on production of the Merlin.
The Americans had a joke saying that the only visual difference between the RR and the Packard engine was that the Packard was the one with the oil inside the engine!
Having said that, it seems that Packard had huge problems at the beginning, with bearing seizures causing crashes with the Mustangs - they found using too tight tolerances to be the cause of the problem.

http://www.enginehistory.org/Piston/Rolls-Royce/RHM/RHM.shtml

[WilDun]

I saw an example of a Merlin at one of our airshows, it was the marine version though and to be honest, the main casting couldn't exactly be described as pretty but then it probably didn't need to be, just needed to be functional!

Flettner,
Talking about casting again, what do you do with the used sand from the CO2 process - is it at all re-usable or does it have to be dumped? I would have a problem there but I would still want to at least give it a try.

[Flettner]

I saw an example of a Merlin at one of our airshows, it was the marine version though and to be honest, the main casting couldn't exactly be described as pretty but then it probably didn't need to be, just needed to be functional!

Flettner,
Talking about casting again, what do you do with the used sand from the CO2 process - is it at all re-usable or does it have to be dumped? I would have a problem there but I would still want to at least give it a try.

My sand all ends up in the drive way.

So, who was watching, the cores and core boxes for the Merlin engine?

[husaberg]

My sand all ends up in the drive way.

So, who was watching, the cores and core boxes for the Merlin engine?

At around 12 minutes from memory I was they were beautifully made and looked very sturdy as well I was surprised at the detail achieved they seemed to be a very cohesive sand?
I also seen the de casting stuff.

[WilDun]

So, who was watching, the cores and core boxes for the Merlin engine?

Yes, I'm sorry, got to admit, I haven't managed to see more than the first 5 minutes as yet, I'm looking after the grandkids and they have to come first it seems!
I couldn't hear a thing because of Seriff Calley etc.etc.on TV. - I get a bit Grumpy sometimes. but I do have a bit of time to myself occasionally, then it rains and stops any casting experiments. (just stopped for lunch now).

Got a concrete driveway and our local tip costs an arm and a leg to take anything there so maybe it'll have to be greensand! - still going to try the CO2 stuff though.

[Flettner]

Yes, I'm sorry, got to admit, I haven't managed to see more than the first 5 minutes as yet, I'm looking after the grandkids and they have to come first it seems!
I couldn't hear a thing because of Seriff Calley etc.etc.on TV. - I get a bit Grumpy sometimes. but I do have a bit of time to myself occasionally, then it rains and stops any casting experiments. (just stopped for lunch now).

Got a concrete driveway and our local tip costs an arm and a leg to take anything there so maybe it'll have to be greensand! - still going to try the CO2 stuff though.

You will need at least CO2 sand if you want to make cores, green sand is worthless for that.

[WilDun]

You will need at least CO2 sand if you want to make cores, green sand is worthless for that.

If I can find someplace close to get rid of the stuff for f*** all then it'll definitely be CO2 sand for both pattern cavities and cores, does seem the best solution to me.
Sometimes I think the battle is a little too much, ie. fighting for both the space and the time to do it all, but I didn't embark on this slow journey just to give up! - yeah, I know, "sob, sob" :msn-wink:

Yes I'm trying to find a quiet peaceful place to watch (and listen) to the video (it needs the sound turned up full blast to hear properly) - also the TT, Moto GP, WSB, Speedway etc.!!

I have always wanted to do this ever since I went into the local foundry on the way home from school when I was 14 and in my ignorance (accidentally) ran over their freshly made moulds! - needless to say I stayed away for quite a while! :facepalm:

[F5 Dave]

If I can find someplace close to get rid of the stuff for f*** all then it'll definitely be CO2 sand for both pattern cavities and cores, does seem the best solution to me. . . .

Isn't there a bit in the Great Escape where they store it up their trouser legs & go for a walk in the courtyard releasing a bit at a time? Perhaps a suburban variant with the mobility scooter?

[WilDun]

Isn't there a bit in the Great Escape where they store it up their trouser legs & go for a walk in the courtyard releasing a bit at a time? Perhaps a suburban variant with the mobility scooter?

Trouble is Dave I'd be pissing myself in case the Gestapo, I mean the local constabulary were watching and you know what a messy problem that might create! - there's always a solution of course, but I don't want that sort! - but maybe I should try it.
My mobility scooter would give the game away, on the overrun going downhill it sounds like a Stuka in full cry! .:lol:

[Grumph]

Just put it in your rubbish - If anyone spots it, just say it's cat litter. They won't look any further...

[Yow Ling]

Put it in the rubbish bin outside the dairy.
I got busted for overfilling our skip last week so I a bit bitter and twisted about the rubbish at the moment 1200kg didnt seem too much at the time

[WilDun]

Put it in the rubbish bin outside the dairy.
I got busted for overfilling our skip last week so I a bit bitter and twisted about the rubbish at the moment 1200kg didnt seem too much at the time

:lol: :killingme

OK,ok, settle down you guys, I'm trying to watch the Merlin thing - I've got a window of peace and quiet right now!

[WilDun]

Have now watched the RR video, guess what it teaches us is that if humans have a good reason to pull together then just about anything is possible.

The foundry was very impressive - and I'm sure that a lot of modern foundries wouldn't have changed much. Terrible places to work though and I guess each person had his little job to do day after day for years.

I'm not sure if shell moulding was in use in those days, but i'm sure the resin coated coresand was. Guess I would need to watch it a few times to take it all in (and I probably will).

The Masport foundry used to impress me in my younger days but I guess all the technology they had was originally pioneered & developed by companies like RR.

Very interesting stuff.

[Frits Overmars]

Adolph Galland ( Ace German pilot) insisted that the Daimler Benz V12 used in the Messerschmitt was a much better engine than the Merlin which he called the "Mermaid". Admittedly the DB engine was fuel injected and I've heard it said that the precision used in that engine was second to none.I don't know about the precision, but the british engine won on parts count. I've been told you'd need two Daimler engines to equal the number of parts of one Rolls.
The Benz was a lot easier to produce than the Rolls. I'm glad the Germans didn't win the war though (although, judging by present-day economics, they did after all.)

[seattle smitty]

. . . the british engine won on parts count.

Could that be a national trait? I read that Honda people were called in for opinions/advice by Jaguar, and found that the back end of the Jag sedan was made from something like 12 stampings . . . which the Honda guys managed to reduce to four or five for the next version of the car.

As for MerBenz, from the Sixties, on their cars at least, they seem to love complexity (little motorized wipers for the headlights, anyone?). I had a '71 280 SEL sedan, and was told by the local MB specialist that I had best never need to do any work on the heater, because when MB built the car, they suspended the heater from a wire and they built the car around it . . . .

Still off topic, but maybe of interest to a few: Growing up in Seattle in the 1950s-'60s, the number one sport by far, especially for the boys in my neighborhood, was Unlimited hydroplane racing. I feel bad for any gearhead who has never had the experience we had many times in those years, of watching a full field of seven boats making a clock start with the thunder of the seven V-12 fighter plane engines shaking our very soul and the sight of the fifty-foot-high, 180-foot-long roostertails behind the beautiful 30' mohagany hulls filling us with a lifelong love. The Merlin 1640 (cubic inch), Allison 1710, and occasional other WW2 era engines were set up to make two to three times their "5-minute war emergency" level of manifold pressure; you could run only two heats flat-out at 130" (on 115/145 purple av-gas with further octane enhancement and water/alky injection, and lots of nitrous) then you had to take the engine down because the bearings in the "blade-rod" ("fork and blade" paired rods on a single crank journal) had pounded out and needed replacing before they seized the rod pair together and then blew a hole in the side of the case. Of course, these were soft bearings, designed for fast break-in and for embedability in a fighter plane engine. Later, the Merlin guys discovered the "transport" bearings, for Merlin versions from such aircraft as the Avro Tudor and Canadair Four.

The Merlins eventually had more success than the Allison boats, not so much from the superiority of the engine itself but because the available Allison versions had a small, single-stage supercharger while the available Merlins (-7 and-9) had a huge 2-stage blower (it was also 2-speed, but this feature was eventually diasabled, and the racers only used "low blower"). One crew did get hold of a Daimler Benz engine, but never got it to work, IIRC because they couldn't get it to oil in the upside-down mounting in the boat. Another failed attempt involved a very rare Allison 3420 from an experimental WW2 airplane; this was two regular Allisons side by side on a common gearbox and crankcase!! Another outfit had modest success with an enormous Packard V-16 out of an air-sea rescue boat. And a few outfits eventually got their hands on some Rolls Griffons (Shackleton bomber and radar plane), which had considerably more displacement than the Merlin without being physically much larger; it was also better made and a better design.

Unlimited hydros were Seattle's citizen sport for twenty five years, and a surprising number of blue-collar guys and others did volunteer work on the many locally-based boats. Alas, the glory days are gone. In the early 1980's, the governing body of the sport failed to follow the wisdom of the Indy-car people and allowed turbine engines to take over. Most boat owners and all sponsors preferred turbines because they required so much less time to prep and maintain than the old V-12s. But THE SOUND is long-gone; the turbines are sneered at as "vacuum-cleaner motors" by old-timers. I don't even go to the races now, anymore than I would bether to walk across the street to watch electric cars/bikes/boats race. I was lucky to live when I did and see the things I did, and don't care that I won't live to see the brave new silent world that approaches.

Hint to the adventurous (and monied): About the last chance you have to hear THE SOUND (albeit not redoubled by reflection off the surface of a lake, as we heard it) is at the Reno Air Races. Every gearhead should see this event once in his life.

[Grumph]

I'd heard that story about Merc heaters too, Smitty. Never owned one so can't confirm..

I hear what you say about the noise of the big V12's. We used to have powerboat racing on the local estuary here and i can remember the late Len Southward running Redhead which used an Allison. Glorious noise bouncing back off the hills at the back of the estuary.
The top class now appears to be blown 7 litre automotive V8's, still an impressive noise but no howling V12.

One very precious memory was from the late 90's. We lived up on the hills overlooking ChCh. Some lucky sob decided the evening before Anzac Day (our rough equal of Memorial Day) to take his P51 Mustang up for an airing. He spent about an hour throwing it around the sky in full view of us, he could fly very well - and the sound.....

[WilDun]

I don't know about the precision, The Benz was a lot easier to produce than the Rolls.
I'm glad the Germans didn't win the war though (although, judging by present-day economics, they did after all.)

I read somewhere that they took a DB apart in Britain fairly recently and found that all the tolerances were right smack in the middle!

As for the Germans and Japanese and their amazing recovery, my analogy is that it's like when you cut down an old tree or hedge to the ground, it will always grow up again much stronger.
However these two countries did benefit from being rebuild with huge input of fresh machinery and cutting edge technology and education from the USA. and the rest of us had to wallow in the trail of destruction left by a few over ambitious military leaders (not necessarily by the people themselves).
PS apologies to SMITTY. :facepalm:

[F5 Dave]

There's a couple of mutton heads in the lifestyle block up the road that occasionally thrash around on some largely unmuffled foulstroke dirtbikes. They sound dreadful.


Sorry I thought we were sharing.

[WilDun]

There's a couple of mutton heads in the lifestyle block up the road that occasionally thrash around on some largely unmuffled foulstroke dirtbikes. They sound dreadful.


Young "muttonheads" have the habit of eventually growing up into wise old guys - like us! - Some even become expert foundrymen - like me!:msn-wink:

[F5 Dave]

I wouldn't mind so much if they were RMs or YZs.

[MikeT1]

Hi , will post some pics as soon as I figure out how. At work now sitting about 20 ft away from a couple of RR Merlins fitted in what was the fastest aircraft for several years during WW2. Now if I could talk the boss into letting me take it out for a quick beatup.... Two merlins sound better than one especially from the inside of the machine. So I guess I'm a bit biased in favor of them especially the Packard version, thats the one with the oil on the inside.312811

[WilDun]

Hi , will post some pics as soon as I figure out how. At work now sitting about 20 ft away from a couple of RR Merlins fitted in what was the fastest aircraft for several years during WW2. Now if I could talk the boss into letting me take it out for a quick beatup.... Two merlins sound better than one especially from the inside of the machine. So I guess I'm a bit biased in favor of them especially the Packard version, thats the one with the oil on the inside.312811

The Mosquito I suppose? - guess you done a lot of work on it - how far on is this one now? - pity about the first one, I heard that it was laid up at present.

[MikeT1]

Yes Mosquito's been building them full time for 10 years now. KA114 is still airworthy to the best of my knowledge, Wal is trying to raise funds to fly it to Oshkosh. As i type this my smoko table is under the wingtip of NZ2308 and the fuselage for PZ474 is just 25 ft away, getting ready to join the two halves just like a big airfix model.

[husaberg]

Yes Mosquito's been building them full time for 10 years now. KA114 is still airworthy to the best of my knowledge, Wal is trying to raise funds to fly it to Oshkosh. As i type this my smoko table is under the wingtip of NZ2308 and the fuselage for PZ474 is just 25 ft away, getting ready to join the two halves just like a big airfix model.

Also the by a coincidence in construction likely first stealth aircraft......Who wood have thought of that. Probably the most versatile plane made during WW2.
The Mosquito could carry a 4,000 lb bomb load from England to Berlin while the B-17 was limited to about 3,500 pounds at the same range.

What glue and what cloth covering do you use?

[WilDun]

Yes Mosquito's been building them full time for 10 years now. getting ready to join the two halves just like a big airfix model.

Great stuff, can't wait to see one take off from Ardmore. (missed the first one). saw one when I was about 18 blasting just above the runway at high speed - very impressive it was!

Regarding my trying "gladwrap" as a parting agent to seperate the pattern halves, I did do that just for a laugh really, as the practice moulding (#5) didn't part cleanly, as you said, the talc acted more like a glue than I would have liked (possibly the sand was a trifle too wet, I dunno) but I thought I'd give it a go anyway and it actually worked! - just spread it over the sand with pattern in situ, put cross slits at the dowel holes and sprue hole and riser, set the other pattern half on top and carried on as usual. It seemed fine to me, but then as you probably have realized by now, I'm somewhat lacking in experience to be able to come to any conclusion as yet so I'll try it again.

Thanks for at least pointing me in the right direction with the furnace problems (jet size etc.) however it all went in a strange direction when it finally decided to work well as the burner was withdrawn into the tuyere (from the inner end) by a massive 80mm, all very strange but as it works well now I'll be happy without questioning what I've got!

PS. Maybe the burner is too short and the 'tuned length' is important (as on a two stroke pipe)

[WilDun]

I wouldn't mind so much if they were RMs or YZs.

Dave, we are fast getting to a generation who will never have heard of a two stroke, they all have the cash to spend on complicated, top heavy expensive beasts covered with fancy plastic and gimmicks and don't even think that there ever was anything else - Honda will have at last got their way!

[husaberg]

I don't know about the precision, but the british engine won on parts count. I've been told you'd need two Daimler engines to equal the number of parts of one Rolls.
The Benz was a lot easier to produce than the Rolls. I'm glad the Germans didn't win the war though (although, judging by present-day economics, they did after all.)

Zee germans though might have been better built, maybe even better designed, but in the tank department at least the yanks could out build them 10/1.
Not only that when they broke down the yanks could fix them in the field. The Russians seemed to follow the same philosophy but I think had a better more rugged design
As long as the german tanks were only twice or three times better tanks. They were going to lose and quantity.
Pretty sure the Germans (BMW) own Rolls Royce now (cars anyway)

[ken seeber]

Fellers,
Have a look at these, Isle of Man stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmNXCJt7K3Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMGXcOqeMMg
If you don't get goose pimples or even a slight dampness, then there's something wrong with you!

Anyways for the Ryger Researchers, I have a solution. On Thursday, the good wife and I take off to the UK and go to the Goodwood Festival of Speed. First thing I'll do is to go straight to the Ryger tent, ask lots of questions, take lots of pics and report back to you asap.
By the time I'm back, I want to hear how much progress Neil has made on the first prototype. :banana:
Then after a couple of months, all the buckets in NZ will be running up to 30k, annihilating all previous lap records.

[Frits Overmars]

On Thursday, the good wife and I take off to the UK and go to the Goodwood Festival of Speed.Ken, if you fly this Thursday, you can be here just in time for the classic races on the Sachsenring in Germany. Organized in cooperation with Ferry Brouwer, there will be many unique classic bikes, not just on show, but racing. If you think you can make it at all, let me know. I'd love to meet you there.
http://grrc.goodwood.com/section/festival-of-speed/
http://www.motorradonline.de/termine-und-treffen/adac-sachsenring-classic-2015-zeitplan-19-bis-21-juni-2015/659202

[seattle smitty]

A couple of last irrelevancies before the thread gets properly back on topic:

Re German vs. Allied aero engines, the German engines such as the D-B were generally of bigger displacement than their Allied counterparts, had to be to get the same performance, because the Germans, as I understand it, were using 80/87 octane gas throughout the war, limiting power and range (they overcame part of this with ADI and later nitrous). Even at the beginning of the Battle of Britain, the Spits and Hurricanes got 100/130 (what the airshow planes get now), and by mid-war had 115/145 (the base fuel for serious racing of these engines).

Re Rolls vs. Packard-built Merlins, most of what we got for boatracing were Packards, and people marveled at the occasional Rolls-built engine that would come in because the con-rods had lovely hand-polished beams, where the Packard rods were just rough forgings (of course, for racing they all got shot-peened).

Re airplanes vs raceboats and race-planes, if all you have heard is P-51s and Spits and even Mosquitos doing fly-overs or even aerobatics, you have only heard The Sound, not THE SOUND. Airplane owners never operate those machines, with very good reason, at even half the boost levels of the racers. Which is why I hope y'all can come see the Reno Air Races . . . while we still have them (another bad crash will be the end of the event) and before they also go to turbines and jets.

Finally, I don't know why you bikers and karters would be so excited about your 2-stroke sounds when you have to put a muffler on the end of each stinger.:bleh: If you could emulate fuel-burning outboard racing, you'd get the pure unmuffled 2-stroke rrrrring!!:msn-wink: (Aaannd, we still run classes with the shriek of 2-strokes with MEGAPHONES!!!:eek:

[WilDun]

On Thursday, the good wife and I take off to the UK and go to the Goodwood Festival of Speed. First thing I'll do is to go straight to the Ryger tent, ask lots of questions, take lots of pics and report back to you asap.
By the time I'm back, I want to hear how much progress Neil has made on the first prototype. ious lap records.

Have a great trip Ken.

[Grumph]

A couple of last irrelevancies before the thread gets properly back on topic:

Finally, I don't know why you bikers and karters would be so excited about your 2-stroke sounds when you have to put a muffler on the end of each stinger.:bleh: If you could emulate fuel-burning outboard racing, you'd get the pure unmuffled 2-stroke rrrrring!!:msn-wink: (Aaannd, we still run classes with the shriek of 2-strokes with MEGAPHONES!!!:eek:

(a) This is KB - I've suspected for some time that off the point irrelevancies are mandatory here..

(b) In my youf, I was present at a record attempt where an EMC - Puch ran with the open megaphone of the period...My ears are still ringing. You could hear it from the far end of the closed road - about 3 1/2 miles away.

and (c) I would really have loved to live in Seattle in the period when Stanley Sayers could take one of the Slo-Mo's for a run from his house before going to the office - and take it up close to the world water speed record....

[speedpro]

I didn't run it up the road but I did start a bike when I was only half way through building the chamber. Hoooooly shit - Loud, with a capital.

[Flettner]

It has been said that the Superchaged DKW 250 raceing at the IOM could be heard from the shores of England, open megaphones.

[husaberg]

It has been said that the Superchaged DKW 250 raceing at the IOM could be heard from the shores of England, open megaphones.

My 1954 197 James was 123db at 3/4 throttle open stinger no silencer of any description (it hurt the ears) was slow as shit still.

[ken seeber]

Ken, if you fly this Thursday, you can be here just in time for the classic races on the Sachsenring in Germany. Organized in cooperation with Ferry Brouwer, there will be many unique classic bikes, not just on show, but racing. If you think you can make it at all, let me know. I'd love to meet you there. ]

Frits, thanks for the nice thought, but we're committed with meeting up with friends and family. So close, yet so far. Still, there is "good" beer, pizzas and Malaga ice creams elsewhere in the world. You have a good time though.

Noise. Ages ago in Victoria, on a major river, there was a boat race. This was when the first Mercury straight 6s came out. A couple of guys had these with no cowl and 6 open megaphones. Not unimpressive at all.

[seattle smitty]

Ken, those Mercury outboards were from late-'40s/early-'50s designs, and were cross-flow engines with deflector pistons. Guys sometimes succeed in applying expansion chambers to them, but with all of their surface area those deflector pistons tend to melt with the added heat. The early 3-port loop-scavenged engines by Konig, Anzani, Quincy, and Crescent used megaphones in their early years (late-'50s/early-'60s). Generally it was found that a given engine would make roughly similar power with megaphones and a good dose of nitro in the methanol (say 15-45% nitro, plus blender fractions) as they did with expansion chambers and straight methanol. "Tipping the can" (adding nitro) generally quickly led to melted pistons in an expansion chamber motor. And nitro was expensive, so people were just as happy not to bother with it. One friend tried hydrazine (rocket fuel) in his Anzani with megaphones. He found that you could use half as much (as nitro), but that it cost twice as much, so no real benefit.

Today, the new Italian racing outboards (and I think the principals in those companies quietly follow the various disclosures from Frits and Jan Theil) make a little over twice the power from a given displacement as the best engines from my day.

P.S. Come to think of it, if one of you has a contrarian streak (hell, everybody on this website has a contrarian streak!!) and wants to build something unique, I have a ten-year-old 125cc cylinder from a VRP (Verona Racing Products, I think) outboard I'd sell for USD $275 plus shipping. Pistons and other parts are all still available. Uh, yes, it is water-cooled.

[FastFred]

312866312867312868312869

$400 on Ebay

[Flettner]

The time has come, restore the dyno.

[husaberg]

P.S. Come to think of it, if one of you has a contrarian streak (hell, everybody on this website has a contrarian streak!!) and wants to build something unique, I have a ten-year-old 125cc cylinder from a VRP (Verona Racing Products, I think) outboard I'd sell for USD $275 plus shipping. Pistons and other parts are all still available. Uh, yes, it is water-cooled.

I posted the VPR500 V4 GP bike ages ago I never knew exactly what it was
https://www.flickr.com/photos/teamheronsuzuki/sets/72157629279920188

[ken seeber]

Frits,
I'm not even going to ask you about how the Ryger works, but I am asking if it can be "bolt on" retrofitted to existing 2T engines, eg as a simple kit? You'll probably answer yes, and quite correctly, because there are no constraints to the question, but I think you know what I mean. Would be good if it is.

[F5 Dave]

The time has come, restore the dyno.
Good idea. Idle hands and all that.

I've met one of you, just how many are there?

[Frits Overmars]

One friend tried hydrazine (rocket fuel) in his Anzani with megaphones. He found that you could use half as much (as nitro), but that it cost twice as much, so no real benefit.Hydrazine (N2H4) is carcinogenic and toxic as hell so you'd better not fool around with it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrazine

[Frits Overmars]

Frits,
I'm not even going to ask you about how the Ryger works, but I am asking if it can be "bolt on" retrofitted to existing 2T engines, eg as a simple kit? You'll probably answer yes, and quite correctly, because there are no constraints to the question, but I think you know what I mean. Would be good if it is.I'd answer No because for me 'bolt-on' means something that can be fitted without altering anything to the base engine.
But the necessary adaptions are fairly simple so you need not throw away your present engines.

[Flettner]

Good idea. Idle hands and all that.

I've met one of you, just how many are there?

We had a bit of an "incident" with the propellor. Much better to use the water dyno, if I can remember how it pipes up?

[husaberg]

I'd answer No because for me 'bolt-on' means something that can be fitted without altering anything to the base engine.
But the necessary adaptions are fairly simple so you need not throw away your present engines.

Frits at home what do they call it when someone who speaks in riddles?

[Frits Overmars]

Frits at home what do they call it when someone who speaks in riddles?Oh, we have lots of names for that. Politicians, preachers, tax inspectors, bank managers, insurance folks, people bound by a non-disclosure agreement who try to answer all kinds of questions anyway, you name it :rolleyes:.

[seattle smitty]

Hydrazine is carcinogenic and toxic as hell so you'd better not fool around with it.

Oh man, everything we shade-tree mechanics deal with is carcinogenic, mind-altering, fattening, or felonious. We have so many industrial solvents circulating in our bloodstreams that they don't have to embalm us when we finally croak. All we care about is: will it get me to the first turn first!!

No, I'm not seriously arguing with you about hydrazine, Frits. However, as a general observation about racing fuels and chemicals, I offered a comment on an outboard racing discussion recently. The topic started among some stock class gas-and-oil racers who believed one of their number was doing some cheating with fuel additives. From there, some of these Stock guys began expressing dismay about how dangerous and toxic these non-gasoline substances are. My reaction was this:

"Well, I have to say that there are a lot of "nasty" fuel additives, starting with straight methanol. Yet some of the old PRO (these are what we call our anything-goes, fuel-burning classes) racers here, as well as many old Inboard racers, spent most of their lives being exposed to these things, yet they seem to be about as healthy as the rest of the population of their age, and have about as much brains as they ever did. I remember standing about ten feet from a methanol-powered 266 Hydro at a Greenlake Inboard race long, long ago, while they adjusted valve-lash with the engine idling. The thing was running so rich that the unburned fuel burned my eyes and nose, and I and everybody by me backed away quickly. But none of us went blind or crazy, as you'd expect when you read the MSDS sheets. Back in the Twenties and Thirties, board-track auto racing was a big sport, with grandstands next to the oval tracks where alky-burning roadsters roared by. Yet I have never seen any media expose of later health problems for this group of racing fans. For that matter, look at Garlits and Prudhomme and Tommy Ivo, guys who drove Top Fuel dragsters and funny cars for decades, burning very rich mixtures of 85% nitro; they are now in their seventies and eighties, and still come to the old-timers get-togethers. Come to think of it, don't the Speedway bikes burn methanol . . . in indoor arenas? Are their fans dying early? So while care should certainly be taken, and perhaps our clubs should consider offering a once-a-year class on fuel handling safety for alky drivers (which would have an additional advantage in demonstrating responsibility on our part in the event of a court case), I'm not convinced that these fuels are so "nasty" as to need to be disallowed . . . except for that Stock guy."

[speedpro]

I have similar doubts about the seriousness of the effects these substances have. I used to run my old race bike on a bit of a brew. The same ingredients I used are also used in the manufacture of "P". The minute levels that are needed to be detected of some of the V.O.C.s before a property needs to be stripped inside and rebuilt is ridiculous. Same with the "P" levels. This in houses that people are happily living in. "P" is a curse but I think there is a effort being made to overly demonise the effects it may have at very low levels. After all it is essentially in cold medicines, in China at least.

[Flettner]

Industrial Sands have an interesting pricing system. Up to 39 bags @ $15 each, 40 or over, $8.10 each. I was looking at 20 bags but for $24 extra I can have 40 bags, 1 ton. Guess I'll have to find space for 1 ton of casting sand, it will get used. I too will have trouble getting rid of the used sand. I'll just take it to the sea from where it came and release it back to the wild.

[Grumph]

Oh man, everything we shade-tree mechanics deal with is carcinogenic, mind-altering, fattening, or felonious. We have so many industrial solvents circulating in our bloodstreams that they don't have to embalm us when we finally croak. All we care about is: will it get me to the first turn first!!

No, I'm not seriously arguing with you about hydrazine, Frits. However, as a general observation about racing fuels and chemicals, I offered a comment on an outboard racing discussion recently. The topic started among some stock class gas-and-oil racers who believed one of their number was doing some cheating with fuel additives. From there, some of these Stock guys began expressing dismay about how dangerous and toxic these non-gasoline substances are. My reaction was this:

Agree completely smitty. Here in NZ bike racing, we could use open fuel (yes, incl nitro) up to around 1989. At the MNZ conference where the remit banning open fuel was discussed i was heatedly involved trying to stop the ban...Stabbed in the back by my own club who voted for the ban. Basically, a couple of us had it worked out just how to use the fuels and we were doing a little too well so using the health and safety bull, it was banned.
A good friend is still involved in karts where i'm not sure if it's still legal. I know one official was lecturing him about safety and how bad Meth is...My friend just said, you put a puddle of petrol on the ground, I'll put a puddle of Meth on the ground, we'll both throw a lighted match at our puddle and we'll see whose eyebrows are still there...

[WilDun]

I too will have trouble getting rid of the used sand. I'll just take it to the sea from where it came and release it back to the wild.

Not a bad idea but remember it's been "genetically" modified now - I would be glad to help using somebody's? idea of a modified mobility scooter but...........
Really if you want to remove it whence it came, it would have to be way up around the Woodhill area, however I somehow have the feeling they won't want it back!
Maybe they could use it in the proposed new wharf in the Waitemata harbour?

[WilDun]

I went down to Raglan by myself on the weekend (to tidy up around my son's bach) and took all my foundry gear etc with me!. By the time I had finished tidying up, the rains came and put paid to any thoughts of doing a pour and I drove up here again on Sunday.
However, I took advantage of the nice day today and did a sizable melt here at home. I had hoped to get a pattern made while it melted, not enough time to do that as it was almost melted in 15 mins so I just poured a "big blob" into the greensand.
My tongs (since modified) worked a treat, I did it all successfully and again with no mess or smoke!

Tomorrow I intend to make a pattern first, then light the thing up. - all looking good but very much a daytime type of thing!

Unfortunately I used a small garden trowel to skim the "dross" off the top but it quickly became part of the melt, - what I had thought was stainless turned out to be ally! - cheap Ba*****s!

[TZ350]

Looking good .... :yes:

[Muciek]

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?14110-Building-A-looper-Beast Very interesting thread with tons of pictures from machining parts :) seattle smitty could shed some light on this propably.

[seattle smitty]

Yes, but do you want it here, as a continuation of a digression-from-topic which might by now have become annoying to others, or elsewhere, or as a PM, . . .??

[Yow Ling]

You may as well post it here, the ESE thread has long since forgotten about buckets, as long as its interesting Ill read it

[husaberg]

You may as well post it here, the ESE thread has long since forgotten about buckets

Someone never got a hug this morning:grouphug:

[Flettner]

I went down to Raglan by myself on the weekend (to tidy up around my son's bach) and took all my foundry gear etc with me!. By the time I had finished tidying up, the rains came and put paid to any thoughts of doing a pour and I drove up here again on Sunday.
However, I took advantage of the nice day today and did a sizable melt here at home. I had hoped to get a pattern made while it melted, not enough time to do that as it was almost melted in 15 mins so I just poured a "big blob" into the greensand.
My tongs (since modified) worked a treat, I did it all successfully and again with no mess or smoke!

Tomorrow I intend to make a pattern first, then light the thing up. - all looking good but very much a daytime type of thing!

Unfortunately I used a small garden trowel to skim the "dross" off the top but it quickly became part of the melt, - what I had thought was stainless turned out to be ally! - cheap Ba*****s!

Good to see it working out

[WilDun]

Yes, but do you want it here, as a continuation of a digression-from-topic which might by now have become annoying to others, or elsewhere, or as a PM, . . .??

That's a difficult one Smitty
It's very interesting indeed and a bit of digression is always very welcome to fill in, but ( quite frankly it makes my efforts look even more pathetic than they are!.;)).

Guess so long as the subject is somewhere in the ballpark......but, this is big and it's like transferring a whole forum into this one, swamping everybody's efforts!! - is the guy actually willing to participate himself, or does he just want to transpose and juggle forums? but he can answer that for himself.
This is however only my opinion, can't say it really annoys me much, so long as it doesn't get out of hand (but has it?)

Flettner's efforts with the foundry stuff and his new engine development however are day by day in real time and really the mainstay of the thread - of course there is Mike T, Husa, also the guy who started the thread, YowLing but what do those guys and all the others who contribute, think?

PS I see Yow Ling has already given his opinion.

[Yow Ling]

http://www.boatracingfacts.com/forums/showthread.php?14110-Building-A-looper-Beast Very interesting thread with tons of pictures from machining parts :) seattle smitty could shed some light on this propably.

Amazing thread , will take a bit to digest all of that, 100% relevant to this thread

[WilDun]

Amazing thread , will take a bit to digest all of that, 100% relevant to this thread

If you are happy with how the thread is going, then there's really no problem at all, it interests me too but, as you say it will take a bit of digesting.

I haven't seen TZ's thread lately and hadn't realized that it had gone well beyond Buckets,(it's a bit hard for me to follow it properly, not being in touch with the racing scene anymore).

I'm just trying to concentrate on learning basic foundry stuff so I have to try to keep focused on that.
Most other foundry forums are good, but are based overseas and this one seems to be the only Kiwi one where it's possible to contact people in person for practical help when learning the ropes, but that's not to say that I can't learn from all you overseas guys who participate in the thread - I hope that will continue.

However, I'm still at the lower end of things and need to stay firmly focused on getting the basics right, I haven't got the time as yet to study cutting edge stuff (or anything else), family matters are taking precedence at the moment. :brick:


These pics I tried to include before (haven't quite got to grips with pictures as yet).

BTW can anyone offer me some explanation of why the flame seems to be happening well down inside the burner tube (as you can see by the blueing on the outside) - It doesn't really matter though as it works well, but I'm just curious!

[Flettner]

Just what every boy want's at his ( or her ) back door, This should "stop the train".

[WilDun]

Just what every boy want's at his ( or her ) back door, This should "stop the train".

What is it at present, an irrigation pump?(guess), - is it likely to become a water brake? (another guess).

[Flettner]

What is it at present, an irrigation pump?(guess), - is it likely to become a water brake? (another guess).

It is a water brake dyno. Good for 400 HP I think, should be about right. Max RPM is 3000 so all applications need to be geared down.
I've used one like this before, nice to use and accurate, BUT it will need some work before it lives again. The heat exchanger is in the base, it will be buggered so I'll give it a bypass to an external heat exchanger like I did with the last one I used. The hydraulic torque piston is corroded up so I'm thinking perhaps a load cell might be the go? I've mounted it so the unit can be run from either end depending on the rotation of the engine being offered up. Also intend to build a pedistal to be able to back a motorbike up and mount it through the swing arm ( take the wheel out first ) with a secondary drive down ( or up ) to the center of the dyno. SO no wheel slip when my 400HP twostroke V6 needs to be tuned. Imagine the sound:cool:

I have many engines that are asking to be bolted up to this beast.

Edit, I might be wrong it might be Max 300 HP and 2500 Max RPM, there were more than one version of this size made.

[husaberg]

It is a water brake dyno. Good for 400 HP I think, should be about right. Max RPM is 3000 so all applications need to be geared down.
I've used one like this before, nice to use and accurate, BUT it will need some work before it lives again. The heat exchanger is in the base, it will be buggered so I'll give it a bypass to an external heat exchanger like I did with the last one I used. The hydraulic torque piston is corroded up so I'm thinking perhaps a load cell might be the go? I've mounted it so the unit can be run from either end depending on the rotation of the engine being offered up. Also intend to build a pedistal to be able to back a motorbike up and mount it through the swing arm ( take the wheel out first ) with a secondary drive down ( or up ) to the center of the dyno. SO no wheel slip when my 400HP twostroke V6 needs to be tuned. Imagine the sound:cool:

I have many engines that are asking to be bolted up to this beast.

Edit, I might be wrong it might be Max 300 HP and 2500 Max RPM, there were more than one version of this size made.

That thread that was posted today had a video of the 10000cc straight six it was not as cool as I expected (the sound not the build) The build is bloody neat,a V would be better sounding though. So make us one Neil I think the sidecars go to 1300cc
<iframe width="540" height="390" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1YMs7sdAReQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[WilDun]

It is a water brake dyno. Good for 400 HP I think,
I have many engines that are asking to be bolted up to this beast.
I might be wrong it might be Max 300 HP and 2500 Max RPM, there were more than one version of this size made.
No wheel slip when my 400HP twostroke V6 needs to be tuned. Imagine the sound.

Ah well, how wrong I was! - but at least I tried. :facepalm:

How long have you had that beast? and what would have been tested on it originally?

Can I have a ride on the V6? - what a way for me to bow out!! - need to hurry though!

[seattle smitty]

As an outsider I'm leery about making site suggestions, but maybe I could start a "2-stroke Miscellany" thread by posting the story behind this outboard. I guess the place to put this is in "Buckets," though again, that is a sub-section of the "Competition Riding" category, so it still would not be quite on-topic. Could a dedicated 2-stroke section be a good idea? Personally, I can follow the Original Topic threads as well as the digressions with no problem. But when I am the one digressing, I feel like I'm rudely interrupting the guys who are trying to have a conversation about foundry issues. And it does seem a little messy, I guess to the orderly Germanic half of my ancestry. We're all interested in both foundry and 2-stroke trivia, but how about we make a place for the latter? I've made similar digressions in TZ's mega-thread, which is more all-encompassing of odd 2-stroke tech, but still a separate thread might be better. Ideas?

[FastFred]

Smitty a separate thread is likely to get lost, post here or on the ESE thread. I know if its here TeeZee plans to link to it. These threads are interesting because they are about doing stuff.

[Grumph]

It is a water brake dyno. Good for 400 HP I think, should be about right. Max RPM is 3000 so all applications need to be geared down.
I've used one like this before, nice to use and accurate, BUT it will need some work before it lives again. The heat exchanger is in the base, it will be buggered so I'll give it a bypass to an external heat exchanger like I did with the last one I used. The hydraulic torque piston is corroded up so I'm thinking perhaps a load cell might be the go? I've mounted it so the unit can be run from either end depending on the rotation of the engine being offered up. Also intend to build a pedistal to be able to back a motorbike up and mount it through the swing arm ( take the wheel out first ) with a secondary drive down ( or up ) to the center of the dyno. SO no wheel slip when my 400HP twostroke V6 needs to be tuned. Imagine the sound:cool:

I have many engines that are asking to be bolted up to this beast.

Edit, I might be wrong it might be Max 300 HP and 2500 Max RPM, there were more than one version of this size made.

It looks like a small/medium Heenan and froude brake. Where did it come from ? If from a Uni, It's probably the same as canty had and John Britten used as i heard 2 or 3 came in at the same time. load cell would be a good upgrade - with the possibilty of being able with computer control, to do a programmed run holding at stepped rpm. The Dynapak 2000 car dynos are brilliant in the you can specify rpm steps and how long it holds at each. very quick and accurate curve.

[Yow Ling]

data mite mini usb is great, I think it can be set up with inertia , water , or eddycurrent dynos, cheap and same as GPR and I have

Good support

http://performancetrends.com/dtm-hdwe.htm

Doesn't matter how clever you are you cant do all this for the price

[Yow Ling]

As an outsider I'm leery about making site suggestions, but maybe I could start a "2-stroke Miscellany" thread by posting the story behind this outboard. I guess the place to put this is in "Buckets," though again, that is a sub-section of the "Competition Riding" category, so it still would not be quite on-topic. Could a dedicated 2-stroke section be a good idea? Personally, I can follow the Original Topic threads as well as the digressions with no problem. But when I am the one digressing, I feel like I'm rudely interrupting the guys who are trying to have a conversation about foundry issues. And it does seem a little messy, I guess to the orderly Germanic half of my ancestry. We're all interested in both foundry and 2-stroke trivia, but how about we make a place for the latter? I've made similar digressions in TZ's mega-thread, which is more all-encompassing of odd 2-stroke tech, but still a separate thread might be better. Ideas?

Post it here, the less threads I have to read the better

[WilDun]

Smitty,
I think that the thread is all about two strokes anyway and Yow Ling (probably all of us) is very happy to see your stuff here.
I came on here just to find some direction for a home foundry and have certainly found that, the bonus here is that it also involves bikes and a lot of the people involved live close by.
My involvement with motorcycles really ended years ago, but I'm still very interested in two strokes (and even the odd four stroke for that matter).
I also feel that both subjects can easily work side by side here and I wouldn't want you to think that I am at all anti, although I would not like to see the 'foundry' theme disappear completely, as I have learnt a lot on that subject here.
This is a very good forum and compared to many others, it is more or less self moderating. - so if any of you guys see me step out of line with my comments just tell me, so I know where I stand - better than muttering on! :rolleyes:

[Flettner]

Well well, it seems we have a problem. It appears Heat Ranger have ordered the wrong direction engine. How could that happen!
Anyway no problem I say to them, lucky it's a twostroke as we can set the engine up to run in reverse. Just different direction starter ( readily available ) turn the one way starter clutch over, new reverse water pump. And shift the timing. Lucky the new dyno can have the engine set up from either end. Unbelievable!

[F5 Dave]

Well how about that, I'd assumed it was gyro thingies.

http://heat-ranger.com/

[Grumph]

Well well, it seems we have a problem. It appears Heat Ranger have ordered the wrong direction engine. How could that happen!
Anyway no problem I say to them, lucky it's a twostroke as we can set the engine up to run in reverse. Just different direction starter ( readily available ) turn the one way starter clutch over, new reverse water pump. And shift the timing. Lucky the new dyno can have the engine set up from either end. Unbelievable!

Hey, i've got a house which faces the wrong way. You'd have thought the poms would have realised the sun is north here in NZ wouldn't you ?
Nothing new under the sun. Mate had a Scott which would sometimes start up in reverse...

[Flettner]

Well well, it seems we have a problem. It appears Heat Ranger have ordered the wrong direction engine. How could that happen!
Anyway no problem I say to them, lucky it's a twostroke as we can set the engine up to run in reverse. Just different direction starter ( readily available ) turn the one way starter clutch over, new reverse water pump. And shift the timing. Lucky the new dyno can have the engine set up from either end. Unbelievable!

I guess I shouldn't be so uncharitable, there seems to be a miss understanding over which way we were looking at the engine.
Isn't it great that the twostroke is so versatile, already paying dividens regarding engine choice.

[Flettner]

Hey, i've got a house which faces the wrong way. You'd have thought the poms would have realised the sun is north here in NZ wouldn't you ?
Nothing new under the sun. Mate had a Scott which would sometimes start up in reverse...



A friend of mine had his house lifted up and turned 180 degrees and re piled, I kid you not.

[mr bucketracer]

Hey, i've got a house which faces the wrong way. You'd have thought the poms would have realised the sun is north here in NZ wouldn't you ?
Nothing new under the sun. Mate had a Scott which would sometimes start up in reverse...i start up in reverse most mornings lol:laugh:

[Frits Overmars]

lucky it's a twostroke as we can set the engine up to run in reverse.I used to race a big single (86 mm bore x 64 mm stroke) converted to rotary inlet, so no flywheel at all, and because of the ultra-short stroke no inertia to speak of in the tiny crankshaft either. Starting the beast was an art: run, bump the saddle, drop the clutch in the same fraction of a second, and grab the clutch back again in the next fraction. If I was lucky the engine would start making two-stroke noises.
When the flag dropped at my first race, I gave it some throttle and let the clutch out. Luckily I was on the last row of the starting grid....

[Grumph]

I used to race a big single (86 mm bore x 64 mm stroke) converted to rotary inlet, so no flywheel at all, and because of the ultra-short stroke no inertia to speak of in the tiny crankshaft either. Starting the beast was an art: run, bump on the saddle, drop the clutch in the same fraction of a second, and grab the clutch back again in the next fraction. If I was lucky the engine would start making two-stroke noises.
When the flag dropped at my first race, I gave it some throttle and let the clutch out. Luckily I was on the last row of the starting grid....

After filtering through to the front of the queue at a set of lights, the Scott stalled as he was coming to a stop. It was still just rolling so he bumped it and it started...You can guess what happened when the lights changed.
I didn't see it - but I met him shortly after it happened and he was still shaking. Only light damage to the Scott and one car...

[ken seeber]

Not to miss out on capitalizing on the bi-directional versatility of the 2 stroke engine, Australia invented the Lightburn Zeta. Not a Britten or Ryger though. :facepalm:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeta_(automobile)

[F5 Dave]

Quite a looker, and would have made that sneaky U turn that ended up a 3 point turn, somewhat embarrassing.
Still they could have sold the technology to French tank manufacturers what with effectively 4 reverse gears.

[WilDun]

Did exactly the same thing with my first bike, a ex WD Royal Enfield two stroke paratrooper bike,- seems it was a DKW clone (BTW a lot of them were left in Holland after the war) - It was my first modification to an engine and of course I got the timing wrong and we all know what happens then.
When I finally got it all sorted I found that I had managed to get the top speed up from 40mph to 45mph - fantastic!

Best cures for the problem? correct ignition timing and a rotary inlet valve (maybe not) - and commonsense, none of which I had in those days.

[Frits Overmars]

Best cures for the problem? correct ignition timing and a rotary inlet valve (maybe not)Maybe not, indeed. My bike was rotary but that didn't stop it from running the wrong way around. Carburation was way off, of course, with a disk that opened 65° before TDC and closed 40° before BDC, but it ran anyway.
Heck, it even ran when the disk hexagon was smashed and the disk stuck open permanently. It was the birth of the 24/7 idea.

[Flettner]

Maybe not, indeed. My bike was rotary but that didn't stop it from running the wrong way around. Carburation was way off, of course, with a disk that opened 65° before TDC and closed 40° before BDC, but it ran anyway.
Heck, it even ran when the disk hexagon was smashed and the disk stuck open permanently. It was the birth of the 24/7 idea.

We used to have (was my Dads, Dads) an old Arcamedies outboard motor, it was Rotary Valve and it ran both ways. In fact it was supposed to run in reverse to back your boat out into the lake, all you did was flick the timing plate under the flywheel around at idle. How was that possible that it ran so well in reverse? Some time ago I was perveying a scrap yard (as you do) and found one of these engines (got it for a dollar). On disassembling it I found the answer, the disc ran in it's own housing and was driven by a pin against the side of the crankshaft, on reversing the pin would now drive on the opposite side of the crank offering correct timing for reverse operation. Clever Swedes. Dog bone crank.

[WilDun]

a disk that opened 65° before TDC and closed 40° before BDC, but it ran anyway.Heck, it even ran when the disk hexagon was smashed and the disk stuck open permanently. It was the birth of the 24/7 idea.

Good heavens! that sure blew my theory to hell! I was always convinced that it only happened with piston port and reed valve! Maybe expansion chambers and the resonance they created had something to do with it?
My old RE 125 only had a makeshift megaphone (the small end off an old time gramophone speaker) attached to the exhaust port to carry the heat away from the cylinder, - the things we used to do!!

[Flettner]

It looks like a small/medium Heenan and froude brake. Where did it come from ? If from a Uni, It's probably the same as canty had and John Britten used as i heard 2 or 3 came in at the same time. load cell would be a good upgrade - with the possibilty of being able with computer control, to do a programmed run holding at stepped rpm. The Dynapak 2000 car dynos are brilliant in the you can specify rpm steps and how long it holds at each. very quick and accurate curve.

I think it was bought into NZ buy the National government (Muldoon) in the late 70's (along with some others) to work on repowering diesel engines to gas. Bill Sheilds was the project manager and I think Bill Burch was suppling the money. Any way they ended up in a heap outside a bussiness here in Hamilton some years later, after being used to convert the Hamilton (and I think other cities) buses to CNG.
I was lucky enough to "hook" one before they went to scrap but it's been sitting a long time.

[seattle smitty]

Interesting to hear about that Archimedes outboard, Flettner. Kiekhaefer Mercury had that feature on some of their inline sixes in the late-'50s/early'60s. Called "Direct-Reversing," if you pulled your throttle lever from Forward through Neutral to Reverse, it would shut off the engine and engage a second starter motor that spun the engine in the reverse rotation (the magneto was also repositioned to get the appropriate timing. I suppose the idea was that this was cheaper than building a shifting lower unit for these big-for-their-time engines, and they just had a simple, tough, physically-small lower unint with bevel gears and no shift mechanism. This system would not have been so hot for the average boater, whose outfit might sit unused for months at a time; it naturally depended on being in a good state of tune, with fresh fuel, etc., so "Direct Reversing" was soon dropped and replaced by ordinary shifting lower units.

But one group really liked the Direct Reversing motors. These were sawmill operators located on the water, who had vast numbers of logs penned-up, waiting to be winched up into the mill. They had tough little boats that would push the floating logs around, and you can imagine that the tough, no-shift Direct Reversing lower units were preferred in this environment. These engines always worked well because they ran all day, every day.

[seattle smitty]

Okay, here's the back-story on Dick Austin's homemade six-cylinder outboard (the video motor).

O.F. Christner, owner of Quincy Welding in Quincy, Illinois, was a former outboard racer and a tech-savvy and very imaginative man. During the Fifties, Quincy-modified Mercury cross-flow open-pipe racemotors of two, four, and six cylinders were the mainstay of "alky" (few restrictions other than displacement) outboard racing in the USA and Canada. But by the early-'60s the Mercs faced serious competition from the loop-scavenged engines primarily from Dieter Konig in Berlin, as well as a couple of other makes. Christner could see he needed a "looper" to stay in the game.

But rather than manufacture the entire engine, Christner made an arrangement with Carl Kiekhaefer (Mercury) to buy Mercury crankshafts, reedblocks, main-bearing housings, and some other parts, while designing new castings for loop-scavenged blocks, cases, and flat-top pistons. This use of Mercury parts was a great thing for the owners of alky-Mercury engines, because they already had lots of parts for the new engines, which could be bought in pieces or complete. The engines were also easy for the amateur racer to deal with because the one-piece crankshafts and bolt-on rods were a lot less hassle than the pressed-together cranks and one-piece rods of other racemotors. Even now, forty and fifty years later, many long-time outboard racers regret and even resent the passing of these very user-friendly Quincy flathead "loopers." I was racing a Konig 250cc at the time and never owned a Quincy, but now have parts to build two two-cylinder and one four-cylinder "Looper."

Dick Austin's project was/is to hand-build a bigger version of Quincy's original 1000cc Class F inline six, using a newer Mercury crankshaft, et al, from a larger displacement crossflow inline-six production motor. To my knowledge, there's no racing class this motor fits; it's just a fun project that will give him a fast ride around the lake. Austin is an old-timer with a collection of big old Jones cabover hydros, long-since obsolete as serious raceboats, but a good safe ride.

You can Google "Quincy looper" to get to Christner's son's website, with lots of pix. The cleverness of how Christner, Sr. and the crew at Quincy Welding was able to arrange loop-scavenged porting in an engine with bore spacing severly limited by Mercury crankshafts originally designed to accommodate crossflow porting is something many here might appreciate. (EDIT) try www.quincylooperracing.us/

[Flettner]

Okay, here's the back-story on Dick Austin's homemade six-cylinder outboard (the video motor).

O.F. Christner, owner of Quincy Welding in Quincy, Illinois, was a former outboard racer and a tech-savvy and very imaginative man. During the Fifties, Quincy-modified Mercury cross-flow open-pipe racemotors of two, four, and six cylinders were the mainstay of "alky" (few restrictions other than displacement) outboard racing in the USA and Canada. But by the early-'60s the Mercs faced serious competition from the loop-scavenged engines primarily from Dieter Konig in Berlin, as well as a couple of other makes. Christner could see he needed a "looper" to stay in the game.

But rather than manufacture the entire engine, Christner made an arrangement with Carl Kiekhaefer (Mercury) to buy Mercury crankshafts, reedblocks, main-bearing housings, and some other parts, while designing new castings for loop-scavenged blocks, cases, and flat-top pistons. This use of Mercury parts was a great thing for the owners of alky-Mercury engines, because they already had lots of parts for the new engines, which could be bought in pieces or complete. The engines were also easy for the amateur racer to deal with because the one-piece crankshafts and bolt-on rods were a lot less hassle than the pressed-together cranks and one-piece rods of other racemotors. Even now, forty and fifty years later, many long-time outboard racers regret and even resent the passing of these very user-friendly Quincy flathead "loopers." I was racing a Konig 250cc at the time and never owned a Quincy, but now have parts to build two two-cylinder and one four-cylinder "Looper."

Dick Austin's project was/is to hand-build a bigger version of Quincy's original 1000cc Class F inline six, using a newer Mercury crankshaft, et al, from a larger displacement crossflow inline-six production motor. To my knowledge, there's no racing class this motor fits; it's just a fun project that will give him a fast ride around the lake. Austin is an old-timer with a collection of big old Jones cabover hydros, long-since obsolete as serious raceboats, but a good safe ride.

You can Google "Quincy looper" to get to Christner's son's website, with lots of pix. The cleverness of how Christner, Sr. and the crew at Quincy Welding was able to arrange loop-scavenged porting in an engine with bore spacing severly limited by Mercury crankshafts originally designed to accommodate crossflow porting is something many here might appreciate.

Thank you, this is all interesting stuff, we appreciate it.

[MikeT1]

Well, managed to pour some castings last weekend, all had a degree of shrinkage, fortunately one was salvageable as the shrinkage was in an area that was to be machined off. I think the sprue was too long and thin to feed the casting from the riser. Solved the problem of sand sticking to the pattern, seems the two pack paint I used on the patterns was at fault, it was hard, but the sand would cling to it. A quick squirt with some rattle can silver and all sweet. Have got some supplies from the pottery outfit in Hamilton so I can try CO2 hardened cores. Have modified the patterns to allow better feed into the moulds. Also last weekend I made a bigger furnace so I can melt up to 20 kg of ally if i ever need to pour something that big.

[MikeT1]

Here is my dyno, good for just over 1 HP. 313116
Hope the pic uploads this time.

[WilDun]

Well, managed to pour some castings last weekend, Solved the problem of sand sticking to the pattern, A quick squirt with some rattle can silver and all sweet. Also last weekend I made a bigger furnace so I can melt up to 20 kg of ally if i ever need to pour something that big.

Big furnace! - What size (dia) crucible do you use? what are you using for fuel?
My crucible is 6" dia. and can only melt two and a half kg. of ally! but then I'm just a beginner.

Where did you get the idea of using spray on silver?
I tried rubbing talc into the pattern with my fingers and it seems to work well (so far), - too well really as the pattern tends to come out as I split the flask in order to remove it - still using glad wrap between the two halves of the flask as well, but thats not really conclusive as yet.

[speedpro]

Hasn't Neil said something about using the soot from a sooty flame oxy-acetylene torch. He just coats everything by playing the flame briefly over the part you don't want anything sticking to.

[speedpro]

Here is my dyno, good for just over 1 HP. 313116
Hope the pic uploads this time.

I thought about using an electrical generator for a load in a dyno but have now gone for a standard disc brake(initially) in combination with a flywheel for a bit of inertia to slow down the changes. The electrical load for smaller outputs could just be some sort of heating elements.
Cool little dyno.

[Flettner]

Here is my dyno, good for just over 1 HP. 313116
Hope the pic uploads this time.

What is the engine?

[Flettner]

Hasn't Neil said something about using the soot from a sooty flame oxy-acetylene torch. He just coats everything by playing the flame briefly over the part you don't want anything sticking to.

The soot is used on metal dies, on wood patterns I use graphite powder and rub it in with my fingers. Bit of a dirty old job but makes the pattern real slippery. I have enough graphite powder to last 1000 years so if anyone wants some just let me know.

[FastFred]

Here is my dyno, good for just over 1 HP. 313116
Hope the pic uploads this time.

Does the dyno work for the plane in the background??? .... :niceone: .. dyno (and plane) look real interesting.

[MikeT1]

There is a link between the dyno and the plane, and the engine on test is an experimental single cylinder steam engine on which I can exchange the head - there are 4 variations of heads with different valve configurations, the cams are keyed to the crank and the timing can be altered relatively easily, there is a flow meter in the inlet pipe so I can determine the most efficient engine configuration. The engine arrangement that makes the most power from the least amount of steam will require a smaller boiler, less water and less fuel. The boiler is already constructed and is good for 60 hp, at a weight of 70 pounds. A previously constructed 3 cylinder radial engine that is good for 60 hp and weighs 75 pounds but I have decided not to use it as it will only develop that power at higher rpm than it was engineered to run at reliably. The test engine will determine the valve configuration and timings, compression ratio etc for a V 4 engine that is in the works. The most recent steam powered aircraft was the Bessler in 1933, you can see it on you tube.

[TZ350]

Steam powered airplane, I am impressed, I would love to see more.

[Flettner]

The beginnings of the "beam" engine. 54mm (twostroke) down to 34mm all fourstroke bottom end.

[MikeT1]

Hi Flettner, I continue to be blown away by the challenges you set yourself, are you using the beam simply to reduce the stroke or as a means of varying the stroke whilst the engine is running? I also haven't quite got my head around the sleeve valve uniflow 2 stroke, I guess you are trying to stratify the inlet charge and reduce contamination and loss out the exhaust port.

[Frits Overmars]

The beginnings of the "beam" engine. 54mm (twostroke) down to 34mm all fourstroke bottom end.Neil, as always, I'm most interested in your enterprises. But I wonder: if your beam multiplies the stroke of the crankshaft to the stroke of the piston, then it will also multiply the virtual inertia of the piston. So what's the gain?
If you plan to hinge the 'fixed' end of the beam via a separate rod in order to permit a linear movement of the piston side of your beam, all sideways forces will still act upon the piston or on its linear guidance further down.
Remember KISS?

[F5 Dave]

Yes, but I hardly see how they're relevant?


https://hardrockdaddy.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/kiss-band-photo.jpg (https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fhardrockdaddy.wordpress.com%2F20 13%2F12%2F17%2Fkiss-finally-gets-due-respect-from-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame%2F&ei=4WyQVYDsJ4rg8AXZsajwDg&bvm=bv.96783405,d.dGc&psig=AFQjCNFi5rO3n4HYaLTNYPzqLCAPdQbdZg&ust=1435614816524364)

[Flettner]

Neil, as always, I'm most interested in your enterprises. But I wonder: if your beam multiplies the stroke of the crankshaft to the stroke of the piston, then it will also multiply the virtual inertia of the piston. So what's the gain?
If you plan to hinge the 'fixed' end of the beam via a separate rod in order to permit a linear movement of the piston side of your beam, all sideways forces will still act upon the piston or on its linear guidance further down.
Remember KISS?

Perhaps this time I am truly off my rocker.

[Flettner]

Neil, as always, I'm most interested in your enterprises. But I wonder: if your beam multiplies the stroke of the crankshaft to the stroke of the piston, then it will also multiply the virtual inertia of the piston. So what's the gain?
If you plan to hinge the 'fixed' end of the beam via a separate rod in order to permit a linear movement of the piston side of your beam, all sideways forces will still act upon the piston or on its linear guidance further down.
Remember KISS?

Yea, nah, I don't know, what would Harry do?

[husaberg]

http://www.car-engineer.com/the-honda-exlink-engine/
http://mechanismsrobotics.asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/data/Journals/JMROA6/931805/jmr_007_03_031013_f001.png

[Frits Overmars]

Yea, nah, I don't know, what would Harry do?Harry would, and did, keep it simple; a whole lot simpler than the Honda contraption shown in the links that Husa posted above.

[husaberg]

Harry would, and did, keep it simple; a whole lot simpler than the Honda contraption shown in the links that Husa posted above.

I am not at liberty to divulge what was not in the links:bleh:

[Flettner]

Harry would, and did, keep it simple; a whole lot simpler than the Honda contraption shown in the links that Husa posted above.

I've given up guessing I'm just going to make a whole lot of random stuff and just try it (in secret you understand, well as secret as this forum is):confused::rolleyes:

[Flettner]

One ton of sand turned up today, roll out the foundry, let the casting begin.

[Flettner]

Yes, but I hardly see how they're relevant?


https://hardrockdaddy.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/kiss-band-photo.jpg (https://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fhardrockdaddy.wordpress.com%2F20 13%2F12%2F17%2Fkiss-finally-gets-due-respect-from-rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame%2F&ei=4WyQVYDsJ4rg8AXZsajwDg&bvm=bv.96783405,d.dGc&psig=AFQjCNFi5rO3n4HYaLTNYPzqLCAPdQbdZg&ust=1435614816524364)

How did it ever get that far?

[Flettner]

What is the engine?

Mike T , What is the plane? Boiler?

[WilDun]

Looks like a Stearman.

[seattle smitty]

Looks like a low-wing as far as I can tell (sun shining on my laptop's screen). A Ryan, maybe??

Try this website if interested in the outboard posts: www.quincylooperracing.us/

On the first (Welcome) page, the first and ninth photos show mercury engines converted to alcohol, and the fifth photo down shows a later "looper" powerhead (on a pleasure-boat towerhousing and lower unit for some unknown reason, possibly intended as humerous. Ken Seeber, that ninth photo shows a six with six megaphones, as you recall seeing (most of the owners of sixes soon went to two-into-one headers, three megaphones, for less weight and they also made better power below the peak.

[F5 Dave]

Looks like a Stearman.
No Starman. He was supposed to be a Starman. The next one was like a Cat, the third one was, well something else heck I dunno. Why are we still talking about Kiss? Do foundry men listen to Heavy Metal?

[WilDun]

No Starman. Do foundry men listen to Heavy Metal?

Foundrymen melt heavy metal and turn it into something useful (which is what should happen with KISS I reckon).

Sorry Frits we are using the 'KISS' thing a bit out of context and turning the thread into chaos (Dave started it, all Dave's fault).:rolleyes:

[WilDun]

MikeT, please put us out of our misery and tell us what sort of plane it is.

[MikeT1]

Sorry for the off topic, the plane is a Pietenpol aircamper, 1929 design, 2 seat parasol, with a 40 hp model A Ford engine, considered to be relatively strong and vice free. I chose to build it because of the above and its vintage appearance. Whilst the steam plant is 100 pounds lighter than the model A engine, the water required is considerable hence the passenger seat will do duty as a tank support. 200 pounds of water should give me an endurance of between 20 and 40 minutes flight, it operates on the total loss principal. The boiler is a liquid fuel fired monotube along the lines of a Doble boiler, I have been playing around with Arduino microcontrollers for the boiler and combustion control. Initially I intend to use a mix of diesel and petrol for ease of ignition and fuel energy density. The monotube boiler design is considered relatively safe in the event of bursting as it contains only a small volume of water, albeit at up to 1000 psi. The boiler housing and cowlings are designed to direct any escaping steam away from the pilot. The main challenge is to keep the engine alive as steam at high pressure is at high temperature as well, in excess of 750 degrees, at these temperatures oil will carbonise and ally pistons will fail, the inlet valves are subject to erosion and the inlet manifolds glow. On top of that the torque produced by steam is higher than an internal combustion engine so the bearings / crankshaft etc have to be beefier yet still well balanced in order to handle the high rpm at which the high engine efficiency is produced. Steam whilst less dense than air at the same temp and pressure is far more viscous therefore needing larger passageways and well designed porting. For efficiency the inlet valve needs to be open for no more than 60 degrees, as opposed to the 270 degrees in a fourstroke internal combustion engine, so the loads on the valve gear are immense. There is very little usefull information available concerning steam engines operating at the ragged edge, an internal combustion engine is well documented and much simpler by comparison, perhaps this explains the scarcity of steam powered vehicles nowdays.

[WilDun]

Extremely interesting info!
If (I mean when) you do fly it, will you need special dispensation from EAA etc. to use the steam engine? Maybe an engine drivers certificate as well, the old regulations no doubt have not been upgraded since the 'days of steam'.

I mentioned earlier about Pietenpol confounding his scientific critics by flying with the Model A engine, guess you'll do the same by flying it with steam!
When you say 'high revs" do you mean similar revs as way up in the four stroke IC range, or will there still be the same stump pulling torque you would expect of an old time steam engine with no gearbox?
Guess Flettner could sort you out with a reduction box.

[Yow Ling]

Sorry for the off topic, the plane is a Pietenpol aircamper, 1929 design, 2 seat parasol, with a 40 hp model A Ford engine, considered to be relatively strong and vice free. I chose to build it because of the above and its vintage appearance. Whilst the steam plant is 100 pounds lighter than the model A engine, the water required is considerable hence the passenger seat will do duty as a tank support. 200 pounds of water should give me an endurance of between 20 and 40 minutes flight, it operates on the total loss principal. The boiler is a liquid fuel fired monotube along the lines of a Doble boiler, I have been playing around with Arduino microcontrollers for the boiler and combustion control. Initially I intend to use a mix of diesel and petrol for ease of ignition and fuel energy density. The monotube boiler design is considered relatively safe in the event of bursting as it contains only a small volume of water, albeit at up to 1000 psi. The boiler housing and cowlings are designed to direct any escaping steam away from the pilot. The main challenge is to keep the engine alive as steam at high pressure is at high temperature as well, in excess of 750 degrees, at these temperatures oil will carbonise and ally pistons will fail, the inlet valves are subject to erosion and the inlet manifolds glow. On top of that the torque produced by steam is higher than an internal combustion engine so the bearings / crankshaft etc have to be beefier yet still well balanced in order to handle the high rpm at which the high engine efficiency is produced. Steam whilst less dense than air at the same temp and pressure is far more viscous therefore needing larger passageways and well designed porting. For efficiency the inlet valve needs to be open for no more than 60 degrees, as opposed to the 270 degrees in a fourstroke internal combustion engine, so the loads on the valve gear are immense. There is very little usefull information available concerning steam engines operating at the ragged edge, an internal combustion engine is well documented and much simpler by comparison, perhaps this explains the scarcity of steam powered vehicles nowdays.

So a steam turbine is out of the question?
No complex valve gear,
Im sure there is a technical reason, I just not sure what it might be.

[MikeT1]

High rpm being 4,000 - 8,000. Yes a reduction drive is required. The boiler size should be covered by the model engineering regulations. Small steam turbines (below 500 hp) are very ineficient. The engine efficiency is the key as the engine that gets the most usefull work out of the steam will use a smaller boiler and less fuel and water for a given amount of power output. Small boiler + less fuel and water = much less weight = far better flight characteristics. Hence the dyno and experimental engine, which has taught me a lot, and confirmed a few suspicions as to what is the most effective way to utilise the energy in steam. Perhaps I should enter the bike in a bucket race and see how its 20 cc goes against the 50 cc ic bikes, provided I can get it to complete a race without something going wrong!

[F5 Dave]

Well starts should be absolutely awesome. But imagine a crash with scalding water adding to the threats:shit::shit::shit::shit:

[WilDun]

One ton of sand turned up today, roll out the foundry, let the casting begin.

Are the castings going to be made in quantity this time? (a ton of sand is quite a lot).
What sort of sand do you use anyway?
I am using some ordinary silica such as you would buy at Placemakers. I do like to riddle out a few bits of foreign grit and stuff before I use it and last time I dried it before mixing.

[Flettner]

Are the castings going to be made in quantity this time? (a ton of sand is quite a lot).
What sort of sand do you use anyway?
I am using some ordinary silica such as you would buy at Placemakers. I do like to riddle out a few bits of foreign grit and stuff before I use it and last time I dried it before mixing.

I was only going to get 20 bags but for $35 extra I got 40 bags, so there you go. Yes I do have some casting to do, more 700 twins, seems there are other people out there wanting 700 twins for autogyro's. They understand these are only prototype units but want them anyway. Plus I'm sure I'm going to need some spares.
700 twin track bike engine is on the drawing board, patterns are being started soon via a second party.

MikeT , steam. Have we talked before? I'm sure I remember something about a steam powered aircraft. I'm affaid I would have probably thought it not possible but it seems you are in advanced stages of prototyping and have done some homework on the subject. Good on you, I for one would be real keen to see a steam powered aircraft fly, imagine that!
I might have a spare 700 twin if needed;)

[Flettner]

Will, the sand is fine silica sand, I mix (stuff? I forget what you call it) with it so it can be CO2 hardened.

[Frits Overmars]

Sorry Frits we are using the 'KISS' thing a bit out of context and turning the thread into chaos (Dave started it, all Dave's fault).:rolleyes:Unless you've been working in Italy, you have no idea what real chaos is, Will. And a thread going in all directions need not be a bad thing; fresh ideas may be born that way.
(Google Translator can do that too: feed it with some dull piece of text and brilliant suggestions that you'd never have thought of may come out at the other end).

[husaberg]

Will, the sand is fine silica sand, I mix (stuff? I forget what you call it) with it so it can be CO2 hardened.

Sodium Silicate or waterglass, supposedly if there was someone you didn't like if you were to put some in there oil magic would happen.

[MikeT1]

Yes we spoke when you gave an enlightening talk at the Auckland SAA meeting a year or so back, sodium silicate is the hardening agent, do you need to ensure the co2 permeates the sand well? I have recently purchased the ingredients but have not tried it yet. I am thinking to apply the low pressure co2 to one end of a core box and let it diffuse through the sand. Does it take long to cure? Hope to try some co2 cured sand very soon. Got some pure talc and tried it as a parting agent last weekend with no luck. Chalk dust was no better, looks like graphite is the best release agent, will have to find some more. The castings I did with patterns on a parting board worked very well after the ingates were increased in size. Have run out of gas for the furnace now and the bottle is out of its test date.

[WilDun]

Unless you've been working in Italy, you have no idea what real chaos is, Will. And a thread going in all directions need not be a bad thing; fresh ideas may be born that way.


Yes, Geoff Duke (who died about a month ago) spoke of the time when he rode for Gilera, so after having spent some time in Italy, he had a lot of good things to say about their passion for motorcycles etc. compared to the sour faced manufacturers in Britain (at that time of course, particularly Norton, who he had won so many races for).
He said that the directors and managers etc. were not even interested in racing at all, yet that's where their income came from.
Italy on the other hand was a chaotic place where everybody from the managing director to the floor sweeper loved bikes
and seeing the machinery they have produced in the past just goes to prove that there must be order in chaos!

[Flettner]

Unless you've been working in Italy, you have no idea what real chaos is, Will. And a thread going in all directions need not be a bad thing; fresh ideas may be born that way.
(Google Translator can do that too: feed it with some dull piece of text and brilliant suggestions that you'd never have thought of may come out at the other end).

Not a truer word spoken Frits.

[WilDun]

Was just mixing some sand yesterday (using a riddle of course) and thinking about the " riddle of the beam" we have created (or to be more precise Flettner has created).
If "HARRY" is the Harry I was thinking of, then I don't believe that he will be able to enlighten us much, so it's up to you Flettner to enlighten us, it does look like a "ROCKER" (of some sort) of course, but what did it come off or if you made it, what was it intended for?
If you can't enlighten us, then we can KISS goodbye to ever understanding this enigmatic piece of equipment!

Oh, and Dave, don't go complicating things any more!! :rolleyes:

Sometimes I think I'm lagging behind a little these days in the intelligence stakes, or maybe I've just spent too much time outside the circle (ie for the last thirty years or so!) :confused:

[F5 Dave]

Was just mixing some sand yesterday (using a riddle of course) and thinking about the " riddle of the beam" we have created (or to be more precise Flettner has created).
If "HARRY" is the Harry I was thinking of, then I don't believe that he will be able to enlighten us much, so it's up to you Flettner to enlighten us, it does look like a "ROCKER" (of some sort) of course, but what did it come off or if you made it, what was it intended for?
If you can't enlighten us, then we can KISS goodbye to ever understanding this enigmatic piece of equipment!

Oh, and Dave, don't go complicating things any more!! :rolleyes:



No, no, you seem to have that under control.

[WilDun]

No, no, you seem to have that under control.

:laugh: :laugh: :facepalm:

[husaberg]

ok..................on the silly side..........

[WilDun]

ok..................on the silly side..........

Quite intrigued by the first one, the second one is interesting in that the crankshaft rotates at half speed - was actually used in an aircraft but had problems with vibration.

[Grumph]

Tell me the second one wasn't thought up by someone using a piece of gymnasium equipment....

[Flettner]

Tell me the second one wasn't thought up by someone using a piece of gymnasium equipment....

Ha Ha, I think I've used that piece of Gym equipment:laugh:

[Flettner]

The beginnings of the "beam" engine. 54mm (twostroke) down to 34mm all fourstroke bottom end.

Will, The beam in the picture was machined up last Sunday in a fit to try out an idea I had on the ryger engine, then I thought bugger the ryger I'll just do what I want and just go off on a tangent like usual. Bugger KISS, I use chaos, works for me:yes:

[husaberg]

Tell me the second one wasn't thought up by someone using a piece of gymnasium equipment....

I just figured out the second one counter rotates as well I never noticed before.

[WilDun]

I'll just do what I want and just go off on a tangent like usual. Bugger KISS, I use chaos, works for me:yes:

I do agree there, my philosophy is, Treat every mistake you make as a lesson learnt! - much more exciting that way! (however,this is not a wise way for those who want to live inside the square).

[WilDun]

I just figured out the second one counter rotates as well I never noticed before.

Don't you mean the first one?

[husaberg]

Don't you mean the first one?

yip...what was your link though

[WilDun]

yip...what was your link though

Not quite sure, read it a few years ago, but I'm trying to find it again.......................please wait.

Got it! - this is just part of a quite a big and interesting site too, but here is the specific page you were asking about.

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/POWER/unusualICeng/cam-IC/cam-IC.htm#fcam

That's the second one of course, now if only I could remember the name of the first one - it used to be easy to find about 7 or 8 years ago!

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/aeGhvdfWxIY

I'm uploading more but it sure takes time.


https://youtu.be/NJzmDjXvUqA

CO2 core box packing, sleeve cylinder and exhaust port core.

[WilDun]

https://youtu.be/aeGhvdfWxIY

I'm uploading more but it sure takes time.


https://youtu.be/NJzmDjXvUqA

CO2 core box packing, sleeve cylinder and exhaust port core.

Quite entertaining video (and informative).
You seem to be sold on the use of sodium Silicate for both your cores and moulds - that core seems to be fairly big and looks like it might take time for the CO2 to get right through it, do you make vent holes to help it get through?

Think I might try it soon as I have the ingredients to do it, but I can't remember the silicate to sand ratio, I know you said somewhere what it was but I thought I'd just ask you anyway.!
How do you know when to stop the CO2 - is it just intuition, what happens if you overdo it?

[husaberg]

Quite entertaining video (and informative).
You seem to be sold on the use of sodium Silicate for both your cores and moulds - that core seems to be fairly big and looks like it might take time for the CO2 to get right through it, do you make vent holes to help it get through?

Think I might try it soon as I have the ingredients to do it, but I can't remember the silicate to sand ratio, I know you said somewhere what it was but I thought I'd just ask you anyway.!
How do you know when to stop the CO2 - is it just intuition, what happens if you overdo it?

Will I came across this seeing as you like experimenting.
http://jarod.eells.us/projects/FoundryEquipment/sodium-silicate.html

[Flettner]

Quite entertaining video (and informative).
You seem to be sold on the use of sodium Silicate for both your cores and moulds - that core seems to be fairly big and looks like it might take time for the CO2 to get right through it, do you make vent holes to help it get through?

Think I might try it soon as I have the ingredients to do it, but I can't remember the silicate to sand ratio, I know you said somewhere what it was but I thought I'd just ask you anyway.!
How do you know when to stop the CO2 - is it just intuition, what happens if you overdo it?

Still uploading the last video. I think it was between 2.5 amd 3.5 percent. Gas until hard and yes I do poke small holes though the core to help the gas through, too much gas and you just waste it. It's quite quick to harden. If you have blind pockets you will need gas holes in the sand right up to the pattern. I've got a video on gassing but things are said that can't be let out on YouTube so I will do another one when I get time. These video's are a year and a half old.

[WilDun]

Still uploading the last video. I think it was between 2.5 amd 3.5 percent. Gas until hard and yes I do poke small holes though the core to help the gas through, too much gas and you just waste it. It's quite quick to harden. If you have blind pockets you will need gas holes in the sand right up to the pattern. I've got a video on gassing but things are said that can't be let out on YouTube so I will do another one when I get time. These video's are a year and a half old.

Ok thanks for the reply, I'll look forward to the "public version" of the gassing video.

[WilDun]

Will I came across this seeing as you like experimenting.
http://jarod.eells.us/projects/FoundryEquipment/sodium-silicate.html

Thanks Husa,
That definitely is the most informative piece of written information on coremaking I have seen to date!


BTW, are the overseas guys, like Smitty and Ken Seeber still around? - hope they will still be contributing!

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/K0reJWJBvng

Last one

[WilDun]

Last one

Did you manage to get it out ok?

[Flettner]

Did you manage to get it out ok?

No, this was the first try of the core box (in sand) but after a little sanding of one of the side walls (taper was not there) it worked perfectly. All this to cast two cylinders of which only one has been machined.
The point of posting these was to show CO2 sand core making in opperation. I have used wire inside the sand to reinforce the core if its a bit week in places.

[MikeT1]

Great info thanks Flettner, will have a go very soon.

[WilDun]

Neil,Mike T, or whoever,
I have been making wooden split patterns (of nothing in particular) on the lathe, they look ok. but I was just using soft pine which is a bit fragile and easily damaged. So I'm hoping some of you can tell me what is the best wood for the purpose.
I need something which will be good to turn and machine, will stand up to the moulding process, take the odd knock, can be used over and over, ie will last for more than one or two castings.

[husaberg]

Neil,Mike T, or whoever,
I have been making wooden split patterns (of nothing in particular) on the lathe, they look ok. but I was just using soft pine which is a bit fragile and easily damaged. So I'm hoping some of you can tell me what is the best wood for the purpose.
I need something which will be good to turn and machine, will stand up to the moulding process, take the odd knock, can be used over and over, ie will last for more than one or two castings.

Neil said amourboard (no idea of the spelling)its like custom wood but has a lot more resin in it ages ago. but he uses any wood that is dry, hence the old furniture.

[WilDun]

Neil said amourboard (no idea of the spelling)its like custom wood but has a lot more resin ages ago. but he uses any wood that is dry, hence the old furniture.

Guess there are a lot of different types of pine! the stuff I'm using is so light it would rival balsa! and it tends to be a little crumbly but then I just found it lying around.
Not sure how Quila? Qwila? would go in the lathe, maybe too hard. Rimu seems to be a mixture of hard and soft. Kauri? if I can find it. or as Neil said, old furniture...... but I haven't got any at the moment!
Unfortunately if I go out looking for timber, I don't really know what I'm looking at, I'm more into scrounging ally and other stuff in the scrapyard. :scratch:

[MikeT1]

Hi Will, I use custom wood then have to use a lot of expensive sealer to stabilise it, also I use walnut which finishes nicely and is stable albeit expensive if you have to buy it, traditionally Kauri was used here. Automotive bog will work if it is given a good coat of paint. Plywood will not warp as badly as plain wood, pine should work ok if well sealed.

[husaberg]

Guess there are a lot of different types of pine! the stuff I'm using is so light it would rival balsa! and it tends to be a little crumbly but then I just found it lying around.
Not sure how Quila? Qwila? would go in the lathe, maybe too hard. Rimu seems to be a mixture of hard and soft. Kauri? if I can find it. or as Neil said, old furniture...... but I haven't got any at the moment!
Unfortunately if I go out looking for timber, I don't really know what I'm looking at, I'm more into scrounging ally and other stuff in the scrapyard. :scratch:

Rimu is a mixture heart and the soft outer wood. Pine is generic it can cover radiata and even native woods or other imports.
Not sure about the North island but seasoned Beech is nice to turn. Go to a thrift shop or garage sale.


Hi Will, I use custom wood then have to use a lot of expensive sealer to stabilise it, .
What sealer do you use?

[WilDun]

Rimu is a mixture heart and the soft outer wood.

Thanks Mike, Husa.
I have just found an old top which seems to be off some bedroom furniture - unfortunately it has had some oil spilt on it but I have cut out the dry stuff and now I'm glueing it together (with pva to give it a bit of thickness). It was quite hard when I sawed it and its a medium/light brown colour.
I guess it's heart Rimu, I'm no expert but we'll see how it goes.
Any tips welcome.

[MikeT1]

I use everdure or the transmarine epoxy timber sealer, works well but the custom wood will soak it up like a sponge. The Armorboard sounds interesting. I did a lot of pattern making for FFM motorcycle helmet molds, back when they were still made in NZ, but have only recently come to do the casting part.

[WilDun]

I use everdure or the transmarine epoxy timber sealer, works well but the custom wood will soak it up like a sponge. The Armorboard sounds interesting.

Thanks, I'll give these suggestions a try anyway, guess I will find the time between child minding sessions! all of this stuff is very interesting to me.
I used to make some cast iron coreboxes (for resin sand) also the odd simple wooden pattern and always wanted to do castings as well and I'm almost there at last after many years of thinking about it!

EDIT The pics are of the wood I'm trying at the moment.



Meanwhile here is a video on greensand moulding which I found very interesting (the last quarter especially), the Geordie? accent is a bit hard to get your head around but he seems to know what it's all about!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfsR28ltLqM

[husaberg]

Thanks, I'll give these suggestions a try anyway, guess I will find the time between child minding sessions! all of this stuff is very interesting to me.
I used to make some cast iron coreboxes (for resin sand) also the odd simple wooden pattern and always wanted to do castings as well and I'm almost there at last after many years of thinking about it!

EDIT The pics are of the wood I'm trying at the moment.



Meanwhile here is a video on greensand moulding which I found very interesting (the last quarter especially), the Geordie? accent is a bit hard to get your head around but he seems to know what it's all about!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfsR28ltLqM

Around 14.30 brake cleaner and graphite power mixed never seen that before looks rather fun.

[F5 Dave]

Didn't watch it but Brake cleaner is apparently hideously poisonous if you spray metal & weld so avoid, it & big heat.

[husaberg]

Didn't watch it but Brake cleaner is apparently hideously poisonous if you spray metal & weld so avoid, it & big heat.

He burns it off, never seen or heard of it being used as it was in the vid, Ps brake cleaner I guess could be substituted for ether.

[WilDun]

Didn't watch it but Brake cleaner is apparently hideously poisonous if you spray metal & weld so avoid, it & big heat.

What is the main ingredient of brake cleaner? - guess meths or similar could be used as a substitute? schnapps maybe? :laugh:

[speedpro]

Brake cleaner and argon or argoshield combined and heated makes phosgene gas, I think

[Ocean1]

Brake cleaner and argon or argoshield combined and heated makes phosgene gas, I think

Aye, serious shit: http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html

There may be very little chance of me putting myself in that position but the consequences are dire enough that I don't have it in the workshop at work.

[husaberg]

Before we get too excited here there is I repeat no argon involved in the casting.

[Yow Ling]

What is the main ingredient of brake cleaner? - guess meths or similar could be used as a substitute? schnapps maybe? :laugh:

Tetrachloroethylene, other name Perchloroethylene it is the only ingredient in CRC Brakleen other than CO2 propellant

[Yow Ling]

Before we get too excited here there is I repeat no argon involved in the casting.

1% of the earths atmosphere is argon so you will need to do uour casting under water or something

[ken seeber]

Back in town. The video was pretty good, old mate seems to know his stuff. When I saw brake cleaner, I automatically thought of using metho, same as Willy. Schnapps is for drinking I believe.
Over here, we get particle board (or chipboard) and then MDF which is harder and denser. This is not too bad in that the centre is reasonably well packed. The bloke next to us does a lot of CNC routing, and the sheets are held down by vacuum. However, to allow the cutters to go slightly beyond the thickness of the material being cut (chipboard, MDF, plastics and aluminium etc), he uses a sacrificial board of 5 mm chipboard on top of the machine bed, that eventually has to be replaced after it gets too many cutter paths in it. The point of this is that the 5 mm chipboard is porous enough to allow a vacuum (of unknown pressure) to be maintained between it and the job, despite the various leakages. Bit of trivia really.

While in the good old mother country, I went to the Imperial Science Museum and had a squiz at the steam section, you know, James Watt and all his mates. There was a model of a beam engine. See pics at various positions. Quality is poor due to it being in a glass case. There is a linkage mechanism there which seems to provide some sort of compensation allowance for the radius of swing of the beam so that it provides a planar force onto the end of the piston rod. Can't see it doing 30k though.


313386313387313388313389313390


CO2 sand. My experience is that a sand core, once gassed, does not have a very long life before it begins to lose its strength and is easily crumbled. This might be a matter of hours or a half day or so, possibly dependent on temps and humidity. Is this your experience Neil? Shell cores are great, they last forever, but need heat and metal moulds. I guess it, as always, is dependent on the job, design maturity and quantities etc.

[Frits Overmars]

Aye, serious shit: http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html
There may be very little chance of me putting myself in that position but the consequences are dire enough that I don't have it in the workshop at work.Serious enough for me to decide posting your link in all forums I attend.
On a lighter note: last time I looked argon was a noble gas, so it won't interfere with anything.

[Ocean1]

On a lighter note: last time I looked argon was a noble gas, so it won't interfere with anything.

Isn't that what they said about kryptonite?

[husaberg]

Isn't that what they said about kryptonite?

Its not the argon Argon. Its the heat.


Keep Solvents Away From Flames and Heat Do not use or store chlorinated solvents near open flames or excessive heat (such as ovens, furnaces, space heaters, welding operations and pilot lights). When solvent vapors are exposed to extreme heat, they can decompose, yielding highly corrosive or toxic products such as hydrogen chloride, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and chlorine, which can create greater hazards than the solvent itself, including metal corrosion in the workplace and toxicity to employees. Under certain conditions such as welding, very low levels of phosgene may form. http://www.dow.com/webapps/lit/litorder.asp?filepath=gco/pdfs/noreg/100-06901.pdf&pdf=true

[WilDun]

Yes I can't see Argon doing much damage but the heat produced from the argon arc welder may do, when combined with this stuff! - quite honestly it's bloody frightening!

I have been exposed to a lot of dangerous chemicals in my lifetime - hasn't killed me ....yet, - However, I have had a very rough ride health wise and although I can't actually say that it's caused by any of these things without clear proof, I'm fairly convinced that they have caused many of my problems.

So, what I would like to say is that anyone who is a smartass and ignores the warnings (and there are plenty of warnings these days, more than we had) is flirting with health problems, or even an early death - ignoring warnings doesn't mean you are clever or brave, it means you are bloody stupid!

[WilDun]

Ok, (now that I've stepped down from my soap box), where was I? - yes, does anyone know what type of wood I posted in those pictures?

[Flettner]

Ok, (now that I've stepped down from my soap box), where was I? - yes, does anyone know what type of wood I posted in those pictures?

Give it the spark test :laugh:
The pattern maker I used to work with used only kiln dried pine. It glues well shapes well with the sanding disc (not so good for turning unless you glue segments around in a ring so the grain runs all the same way, this is how it should be done anyway. Bondi sticks well and paints with 2K primer/filler very well.
If you want real nice stuff to turn use Armorboard and glue bits together with 24Hr two pot high strength glue (arildite). It turns a little like free machining alloy. It's what I use in the CNC to machine patterns from solid.
In saying all that I do use whatever wood I can so long as its dry and not full of natural oils like Kauri.
There is a picture of the sanding disc earlier in this forum, somewhere? That is what should be used when pattern making, Yow Lig has one.

[WilDun]

Give it the spark test :laugh:

If you want real nice stuff to turn use Armorboard and glue bits together with 24Hr two pot high strength glue (arildite). It turns a little like free machining alloy.
I do use whatever wood I can so long as its dry and not full of natural oils like Kauri.


Thanks everybody for all the replies,
Was thinking of using Kauri but have now changed my mind, maybe try Armorboard, but I'll keep my eyes open and try anything that looks right!
Maybe PVA glue isn't a helluva good idea either.

I do remember seeing your sander for doing the draught angles quite a few pages ago, trouble is the longer the thread goes on, the harder it is to find it all again!

It would seem that all the foundry processes are based on intuition! - more or less like bakeries.
Everything takes time and all this stuff obviously can't be learnt from just a book or a video, but I guess they all do play a part.

[Ocean1]

Thanks everybody for all the replies,
Was thinking of using Kauri but have now changed my mind, maybe try Armorboard, but I'll keep my eyes open and try anything that looks right!
Maybe PVA glue isn't a helluva good idea either.

I do remember seeing your sander for doing the draught angles quite a few pages ago, trouble is the longer the thread goes on, the harder it is to find it all again!

It would seem that all the foundry processes are based on intuition! - more or less like bakeries.
Everything takes time and all this stuff obviously can't be learnt from just a book or a video, but I guess they all do play a part.

I couldn't find it either. :laugh:

I suspect it's like this: https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=sanding+discs+angle+table&biw=1391&bih=656&tbm=isch&imgil=m1Jnimi4MPylnM%253A%253Bu5DwqYi3SjqItM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbbs.homeshopmachinist.net% 25252Fthreads%25252F38608-Looking-for-plans-for-disc-sander-angle-table&source=iu&pf=m&fir=m1Jnimi4MPylnM%253A%252Cu5DwqYi3SjqItM%252C_&usg=__TvczOiyJut2BCTXZ3QyrI99cuJ4%3D&ved=0CDQQyjc&ei=j1iYVfjiO8Pd8AWQhYXwCg#imgrc=m1Jnimi4MPylnM%3A&usg=__TvczOiyJut2BCTXZ3QyrI99cuJ4%3D

I have a similar one, 14" dia in steel rather than alloy, but mine doesn't have the table adjustable for angle.

I can also recommend armourboard. For shapes requiring more than just a standard draught, (curved in both axis) I used to model 3D shapes in Rhino, scale the shape by the shrinkage factor, section the shapes at 10mm offests, print the sections 1:1, stick the printed sections onto 10mm armourboard, bandsaw them out carefully and glue them together with polyester resin. Just a matter of dressing the steps off and there's your mould.

[Flettner]

I couldn't find it either. :laugh:

I suspect it's like this: https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=sanding+discs+angle+table&biw=1391&bih=656&tbm=isch&imgil=m1Jnimi4MPylnM%253A%253Bu5DwqYi3SjqItM%253Bh ttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbbs.homeshopmachinist.net% 25252Fthreads%25252F38608-Looking-for-plans-for-disc-sander-angle-table&source=iu&pf=m&fir=m1Jnimi4MPylnM%253A%252Cu5DwqYi3SjqItM%252C_&usg=__TvczOiyJut2BCTXZ3QyrI99cuJ4%3D&ved=0CDQQyjc&ei=j1iYVfjiO8Pd8AWQhYXwCg#imgrc=m1Jnimi4MPylnM%3A&usg=__TvczOiyJut2BCTXZ3QyrI99cuJ4%3D

I have a similar one, 14" dia in steel rather than alloy, but mine doesn't have the table adjustable for angle.

I can also recommend armourboard. For shapes requiring more than just a standard draught, (curved in both axis) I used to model 3D shapes in Rhino, scale the shape by the shrinkage factor, section the shapes at 10mm offests, print the sections 1:1, stick the printed sections onto 10mm armourboard, bandsaw them out carefully and glue them together with polyester resin. Just a matter of dressing the steps off and there's your mould.

Yes that's it, but you do need to be able to angle the table to easily get your draft angles. This type of sander is good for making both flat sided and round components, lugs etc.
Ironicly my next engine will be carved from solid alloy, no castings apart from the cylinder and perhaps a side case or two.
Next time I'm doing some pattern making I'll get Gerbilgronk to do some video so you can see how I do it, to be clear, not necessarily the right way though it just works for me.

[Ocean1]

Yes that's it, but you do need to be able to angle the table to easily get your draft angles. This type of sander is good for making both flat sided and round components, lugs etc.

Aye. I built mine 20 yrs ago while twiddling my thumbs waiting for work to flood in to my new business. I got busy almost immediately, so it got finished quickly and I haven't had tome to add the angle adjustment feature since.

I'll get around to it, in the meantime it's still one of the most used weapons in the shop.

[Flettner]

Back in town. The video was pretty good, old mate seems to know his stuff. When I saw brake cleaner, I automatically thought of using metho, same as Willy. Schnapps is for drinking I believe.
Over here, we get particle board (or chipboard) and then MDF which is harder and denser. This is not too bad in that the centre is reasonably well packed. The bloke next to us does a lot of CNC routing, and the sheets are held down by vacuum. However, to allow the cutters to go slightly beyond the thickness of the material being cut (chipboard, MDF, plastics and aluminium etc), he uses a sacrificial board of 5 mm chipboard on top of the machine bed, that eventually has to be replaced after it gets too many cutter paths in it. The point of this is that the 5 mm chipboard is porous enough to allow a vacuum (of unknown pressure) to be maintained between it and the job, despite the various leakages. Bit of trivia really.

While in the good old mother country, I went to the Imperial Science Museum and had a squiz at the steam section, you know, James Watt and all his mates. There was a model of a beam engine. See pics at various positions. Quality is poor due to it being in a glass case. There is a linkage mechanism there which seems to provide some sort of compensation allowance for the radius of swing of the beam so that it provides a planar force onto the end of the piston rod. Can't see it doing 30k though.


313386313387313388313389313390


CO2 sand. My experience is that a sand core, once gassed, does not have a very long life before it begins to lose its strength and is easily crumbled. This might be a matter of hours or a half day or so, possibly dependent on temps and humidity. Is this your experience Neil? Shell cores are great, they last forever, but need heat and metal moulds. I guess it, as always, is dependent on the job, design maturity and quantities etc.

We are just looking at a small con rod? am I right? Is that what the small rods are for?
Yes CO2 sand doesn't last a long time, make them when you need them but they will last more than a week I've found. Don't let them soak up water, keep them on the hot water cylinder.
I make the core boxes in wood/bondifil/casting resin (CO2 sand) first then if the castings go well and I want more I copy cast these wood core boxes into aluminium so I can use them to make Shell sand cores (hot set), MUCH better in the long run.

What a turn of events, I rode my first trail ride post hip job (and patch up) yesterday. Wrong day to try the hip out, it was the wettest I've riden in for years, slippery, rutted and not fun but I made it without damage. I never thought I would be doing that again. Had to go to Blackwood Yamaha and ask for my YZ back again, I couldn't get rid of the YZ even if I couldn't ride again, best MX/trailbike ever made.