The Bucket Foundry [Archive] - Page 7

Michael Moore

14th October 2015, 10:21

A sand riddle can be nothing more complicated than some coarse window screen and a frame made from some scrap bits of lumber, and that's what I've been using. I've seen people using a kitchen wire screen basket sieve, or the flour sifters that you crank to make the flour go through a screen.

All it has to do is work.

Here's an MSDS (material safety data sheet) for the sodium silicate.

http://www.boremco.com/SDS/Sodium-Silicate-N.pdf

What seems a good plan for small amounts of SS sand is to put all the dry ingredients in a big Ziploc bag, distribute the liquid on them, then close the bag (squeeze the air out before sealing) and then work the materials from the outside of the bag. That means no spills, no dust/fumes, no muss.

I keep boxes of disposable nitrile gloves scattered around in the hopes that I'll use them anytime I'm working with something more toxic than soap and water. Of course, in the old days we thought nothing of immersing our hands for extended periods in solvent tanks, petroil, oil, what have you. These days we know better, we just have to avoid falling back into bad old habits.

cheers,
Michael

husaberg

14th October 2015, 10:24

A sand riddle can be nothing more complicated than some coarse window screen and a frame made from some scrap bits of lumber, and that's what I've been using. I've seen people using a kitchen wire screen basket sieve, or the flour sifters that you crank to make the flour go through a screen.

All it has to do is work.

Here's an MSDS (material safety data sheet) for the sodium silicate.

http://www.boremco.com/SDS/Sodium-Silicate-N.pdf

I keep boxes of disposable nitrile gloves scattered around in the hopes that I'll use them anytime I'm working with something more toxic than soap and water. Of course, in the old days we thought nothing of immersing our hands for extended periods in solvent tanks, petroil, oil, what have you. These days we know better, we just have to avoid falling back into bad old habits.

cheers,
Michael

The gloves do have some rather huge advantages Michael
They save having to wash your hands so much.

WilDun

14th October 2015, 10:41

The gloves do have some rather huge advantages Michael
They save having to wash your hands so much.

Only trouble is, will we use them at the appropriate time or in the heat of the moment when we forget? - but that's human nature I guess.
I get the feeling that Sodium silicate sand won't do a lot of harm if I do forget and if it stings real bad then I'll know!
(Unlike muriatic? acid used for cleaning stainless steel, which will penetrate the flesh and attack the bones without you feeling very much at all!) - very dangerous stuff!

ken seeber

14th October 2015, 11:29

Our experience with sodium silicate is that it is pretty kind on hands. We never used gloves and I have seen a few foundries that don't bother. However, we only indirectly contacted the stuff in practice. As to mixing, we just used a cheap arse $15 mixer (kitchen style vertical thing with blades in the bottom) to do the small mixes we were doing. For these, we used a syringe to dispense the SS into the pre measured volume of sand when the mixer was going

As MM says, I also saw somewhere they were using the plastic bag trick, which also seemed to be neat for a few small batches.

The real nasty stuff is hydrofluoric acid (sometime found in stainless steel pickling paste). Over here it can only be purchased with a special application. The acid gives you a protracted & painful death.

husaberg

14th October 2015, 11:33

Only trouble is, will we use them at the appropriate time or in the heat of the moment when we forget? - but that's human nature I guess.
I get the feeling that Sodium silicate sand won't do a lot of harm if I do forget and if it stings real bad then I'll know!
(Unlike muriatic? acid used for cleaning stainless steel, which will penetrate the flesh and attack the bones without you feeling very much at all!) - very dangerous stuff!

Funny enough Will They used to use Sodium Silicate to preserve eggs (true story)
Its waterGlass

Sodium silicate was also used as an egg preservation agent through the early 20th century with large success. When fresh eggs are immersed in it, bacteria which cause the eggs to spoil are kept out and water is kept in. Eggs can be kept fresh using this method for up to five months. When boiling eggs preserved this way, it is well advised to pin-prick the egg to allow steam to escape because the shell is no longer porous
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_silicate

WilDun

14th October 2015, 15:38

Our experience with sodium silicate is that it is pretty kind on hands. We never used gloves
As MM says, I also saw somewhere they were using the plastic bag trick,
The real nasty stuff is hydrofluoric acid (sometime found in stainless steel pickling paste).

So it looks like it's reasonably safe using sodium silicate.

And yes, hydroflouric acid is the one I mean.
There was a new guy at work who went to the sink where we cleaned up the S/S in the workshop and he thought that the clear gel was hand cleaner and he happened to mention to me that our hand cleaner seemed a bit rough and not much good!! - luckily he washed it off quickly - makes you want to cringe!

Flettner

14th October 2015, 18:40

Sleeve engine running. I guess this would have to be the first open ended sleeve twostoke running since Riccardo? Maybe.
Now to fit exhausts and gearbox to make it usable, to put REAL thermal load on it.

https://youtu.be/bwsu5td6nko

https://youtu.be/9tHnBHh3VnM

mr bucketracer

14th October 2015, 18:55

good stuff sounds pretty damn good !

husaberg

14th October 2015, 18:56

TZ350

14th October 2015, 19:11

Good work, very impressive.

Flettner

14th October 2015, 19:13

Epic is it warping time (re the video's autofocus)
Sounds bloody quiet as well. Epic

No, it's quite loud. Phone didn't seem to pick up the sound very well.

Yes autofocus didn't like the exhaust pulse or something:no:

Interesting to see right through the engine as it runs, anyway it goes on it's own steam:laugh:

Didn't vibrate as bad as I thought it might but I'm sure it will with a few more revs on.

Lightbulb

14th October 2015, 19:49

It is not very often that you get to see the density of exhaust gasses. Great video.
Thanks Neil for posting a video. Can't wait to see it in person.
Neil

husaberg

14th October 2015, 19:56

No, it's quite loud. Phone didn't seem to pick up the sound very well.

Yes autofocus didn't like the exhaust pulse or something:no:

Interesting to see right through the engine as it runs, anyway it goes on it's own steam:laugh:

Didn't vibrate as bad as I thought it might but I'm sure it will with a few more revs on.

Its got a Mallory weighted crank and a balance shaft though hasn't it?
the sleeve should be no worse than all that extra stuff foul strokes have
What factor did you do it as 50%
where was the oil going I never seen it in the last two videos but there was plenty flying around in the Compressor run video?

F5 Dave

14th October 2015, 20:10

Cool stuff.

ken seeber

14th October 2015, 21:06

Neil, goodonya !!!! A fantastic effort. Lots of hard work, commitment, passion, distractions and it goes. :clap::clap::clap::clap:

I've never seen an engine run so smoothly at 30k :killingme:killingme

Frits Overmars

14th October 2015, 22:54

Sleeve engine running. I guess this would have to be the first open ended sleeve twostoke running since Riccardo? 316565316566

Flettner

15th October 2015, 07:13

Yes it is good to have the sleeve engine running but it's almost worthless without putting real load on. At least it passed the first test and actualy ran without seizing up straight away. I NEED another YZ250 gearbox.
The 3D inlet manifold didn't happen, I just made one in the workshop, but I'll keep trying as the one I made is not quite right anyway but it did it's job. Results like this are dangerous as it just encourages me:laugh:
Where did I put that FOS cylinder?

Flettner

15th October 2015, 07:18

I've never seen an engine run so smoothly at 30k :killingme:killingme

I don't think that will happen any time soon, I just wanted to hear it go and it did. Lets see Harry Rygerise this then:lol:

WilDun

15th October 2015, 07:43

I don't think that will happen any time soon, I just wanted to hear it go and it did. Lets see Harry Rygerise this then:lol:

Fantastic, (even though I've just switched on and haven't watched the video yet) but to have something like this running without seizing must be a great feeling - it's definitely a unique machine and all your own work too! - deserves all those hand claps you've been getting.
So here's a couple more!

:clap::clap:

Update,
Just watched it and perhaps significantly, there was no smoke! - (unusual for most first startups) a very good result, well done!

But you must admit that it was inspired by "Harry" ........... (Harry Ricardo). :)

Flettner

15th October 2015, 08:39

But you must admit that it was inspired by "Harry" ........... (Harry Ricardo). :)

Yes, absolutely, I would not even started the project without reading about his work. It just seemed a pity to see all his sleeve development just stop.

seymour14

15th October 2015, 18:00

Well done, a worthy tribute!

breezy

15th October 2015, 21:31

Lightbulb

18th October 2015, 21:05

Well, I had the privilege to see and hear the engine in person. This is the longest and the most revs it has done to date. I am super impressed.
Here is the video my son took.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9Muk7rI24w&feature=youtu.be

My artistic picture, looking through the exhaust at BDC approx.
Thanks Neil

husaberg

18th October 2015, 21:30

(on the video)now who said it was quiet?

That was me, sounds great though

Flettner

19th October 2015, 07:28

That was me, sounds great though

It's got a bit of a crackle to it with a few revs. I very much want to ride this thing around now:yes:

WilDun

19th October 2015, 07:38

Well, I had the privilege to see and hear the engine in person. This is the longest and the most revs it has done to date.
My artistic picture, looking through the exhaust at BDC approx.
Thanks Neil

Fantastic stuff (well I shouldn't say fantastic, cos it's real).
If (the other) Neil can't get a suitable box then he'll have to hitch it up to a generator or something in order to wring it's neck! - of course I realize that small steps are probably necessary in the case of this project. - Great achievement so far!

husaberg

19th October 2015, 09:46

It's got a bit of a crackle to it with a few revs. I very much want to ride this thing around now:yes:

What revs are the pipes going to be tuned to Neil?
Have you seen the Hydroformed thread?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/176280-Designing-and-manufacturing-of-exhaust-pipes

I will have a google look on the net for a box and see if the 450 box is similar enough to work with the parts fiche
Alas that's my only talent.

Flettner

19th October 2015, 10:25

What revs are the pipes going to be tuned to Neil?
Have you seen the Hydroformed thread?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/176280-Designing-and-manufacturing-of-exhaust-pipes

I will have a google look on the net for a box and see if the 450 box is similar enough to work with the parts fiche
Alas that's my only talent.

250 twostroke!

husaberg

19th October 2015, 12:16

250 twostroke!

Yeah I know, but Yamaha is likely lazy and unlikely to design two different gearbox's for the two strokes vs the fours. Honda didn't.

looks like its doable. For a man of your many talents.
They made and sold a lot of 450's and I doubt they run long enough to wear the trannies.
here are all the dimensions.
According to the tooth counts in the Yamaha parts diagrams, The 2006-2009 YZ450F share all gear ratios with the 2003-2012 YZ250.

Tooth counts for both 2T and 4T YZs are:
1st) 14:27
2nd) 15:23
3rd) 18:23
4th) 22:24
5th) 21:20

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/927076-yz450f-transmission-gear-upgrade-close-ratios/

of course its easier to go with the YZ as that's what you are set up for but its just an idea the clutch hub is diferent and it looks like the YZ450 has a few wider gears and modified dogs.

I started trolling Ebay today for a Bottom end of a YZ250 but got distracted by work but I couldn't find a cheap one, what do you need other than the cluster and shift drum and forks Neil?

MikeT1

20th October 2015, 20:11

That engine sounds awesome , I 've always had a hankering for a sleeve valve engine, can't wait for your updates, someone find him a gearbox please.

Michael Moore

21st October 2015, 16:29

A photo and some discussion of shell molds used at Greeves

http://www.spitfire-racing.com/greeves/fact_tour.pdf

cheers,
Michael

husaberg

21st October 2015, 16:42

A photo and some discussion of shell molds used at Greeves

http://www.spitfire-racing.com/greeves/fact_tour.pdf

cheers,
Michael

Great find
In 1963 Greeves were buying complete 32A engines from Villiers throwing away the cylinder, head, most of the clutch, crankshaft.
They were only basically keeping the cases and gearbox.
Villiers steadfastly refused to sell them just the cases.
They later realised how silly this was as they only needed to make their own cases and fit an Albion box.
I have a few pics of the Silverstone cases they were as simple as but far better than the Villiers stuff.

Michael Moore

21st October 2015, 17:26

I had a 250 Griffon. The Greeves gearbox was much smaller than the Albion and also worked well. The Griffon was probably about as good as you could get for a non-unit engine of the time.

husaberg

21st October 2015, 18:00

I had a 250 Griffon. The Greeves gearbox was much smaller than the Albion and also worked well. The Griffon was probably about as good as you could get for a non-unit engine of the time.

I have never seen one of the short stroke 250 challenger greeves a guy here imported an engine, but I don't think he ever ran it.
My father has enough bits to lying around to build up a few greeves but only has the late twin loop later frame. like the griffon.

Grumph

21st October 2015, 18:53

I had a 250 Griffon. The Greeves gearbox was much smaller than the Albion and also worked well. The Griffon was probably about as good as you could get for a non-unit engine of the time.

I've ridden a 360 Griffon...Quite good, compared well to the bike i regularly borrowed, a CZ 250 twinport.

I've got a 197 Villiers special here i must get going again one day, has a 4 speed greeves box fitted. i refer to the bike as a "facetious pastiche of a Silverstone" It is just that. Got around the clutch problem by fitting an RD350 clutch run dry....

Greeves level of foundry work was actually pretty good for the era - and the equipment they worked with.

WilDun

21st October 2015, 22:56

I've ridden a 360 Griffon...Quite good, compared well to the bike i regularly borrowed, a CZ 250 twinport.

Greeves level of foundry work was actually pretty good for the era - and the equipment they worked with.

Greeves must have been very 'foundry orientated' when you look at the famous cast alloy front frame "tube", - I never could see any benefit of it really! but then Greeves was very successful brand in it's day, ie till CZ came into the act.

Talking about CZ, you had to be real fit (and very lucky) to get them going again if you happened to stall the engine during a race!, (Jikov carb?) ....... then all those dented pipes! :rolleyes:

husaberg

21st October 2015, 23:15

Greeves must have been very 'foundry orientated' when you look at the famous cast alloy front frame "tube", - I never could see any benefit of it really! but then Greeves was very successful brand in it's day, ie till CZ came into the act.

Talking about CZ, you had to be real fit (and very lucky) to get them going again if you happened to stall the engine during a race!, (Jikov carb?) ....... then all those dented pipes! :rolleyes:

The Greeves I beam served a few purposes it was easy to make and solid also that together with the Engine plates that joined to the fame meant the same or very similar frames could be used for multiple engines.
Hard to believe now but a lot of the factories had no welding facilities (like Norton) hence the early reliance of lugged frames (the featherbed frames were made by Reynolds as were the early commando frames later they we made overseas.)
Just as distinctive were the Greeves rubber in torsion leading link front forks the early models even had rubber in torsion rear suspension. of course both later gave way to more conventional hydraulic units these of course became a important design feature of The Greeves along with the I beam well past there usefulness . Much like the desmo for Ducati or the styling of Harley's
Incidentally the rubber in torsion was developed for the invalid cars that were the backbone of Greeves production until the orders and the need petered out. Hence the move into bikes.

Grumph

22nd October 2015, 06:12

Greeves must have been very 'foundry orientated' when you look at the famous cast alloy front frame "tube", - I never could see any benefit of it really! but then Greeves was very successful brand in it's day, ie till CZ came into the act.

Talking about CZ, you had to be real fit (and very lucky) to get them going again if you happened to stall the engine during a race!, (Jikov carb?) ....... then all those dented pipes! :rolleyes:

The beam came about because of the very low quality of tube available in the UK at the time. Most manufacturers racing scrambles were suffering frame breakages way too often. There's a story that to fix the problem, at least one factory James had a front downtube from solid barstock...

Restarting a CZ hot....Oh, yes, eastern european electrics...I remember it well. Nearly every race I remember someone stuck on the infield, kicking, and kicking..I see the nicely restored twin pipers in VMX now complete with dentless pipes and walk away shaking my head....They're just not riding them hard enough.

WilDun

22nd October 2015, 19:11

Restarting a CZ hot....Oh, yes, eastern european electrics...I remember it well. ....They're just not riding them hard enough.

I may be wrong, but I'm sure those twin pipers had magmesium crankcases and cast iron barrels - strange combination I reckon - one cancels out the other in terms of weight!

husaberg

22nd October 2015, 19:19

I may be wrong, but I'm sure those twin pipers had magmesium crankcases and cast iron barrels - strange combination I reckon - one cancels out the other in terms of weight!

No idea but the poms as Grumph said used a lot of Aluminium post was as the steel was rations and the mag and aluminium wasn't. that's why the Landover are aluminium ands same with the Housings on a TEA

The Russian used to make there shovels out of titanium it was very abundant over there plus it doesn't go brittle at -30C or something like steel does
When the yanks built the U2 and SR71 that had to find a way of getting some from them through other countries to build them because they controlled the worlds supply
Three useless little bits of husa info for the price of one.

Grumph

22nd October 2015, 19:25

I may be wrong, but I'm sure those twin pipers had magmesium crankcases and cast iron barrels - strange combination I reckon - one cancels out the other in terms of weight!

Normal alloy cases - magnesium does not like getting wet...At all.....And the eastern bloc factories were very pragmatic, an iron barrel could be made to work very well at low cost. Plus i seem to remember the bikes were close to the minimum weight regs of the period.

F5 Dave

22nd October 2015, 20:16

But it just loves catching on fire and then getting wet if you remember the Falklands conflict.

Grumph

23rd October 2015, 06:02

But it just loves catching on fire and then getting wet if you remember the Falklands conflict.

Put water on burning magnesium and you've really got a bigger problem then...

What i meant was corrosion. Best (worst) example I known of in our bike world is the early Honda drum brakes. The early 125 road bikes used an iron liner in a cast magnesium drum. Find one that's been stored in damp conditions and it's almost certainly corroded at the joint face - To the point where i was shown a drum where the liner simply fell out...Speedway JAP motors were available with Mag crankcases, even with the best chromate coatings available at the time, they were limited life parts.

husaberg

23rd October 2015, 06:33

Put water on burning magnesium and you've really got a bigger problem then...

What i meant was corrosion. Best (worst) example I known of in our bike world is the early Honda drum brakes. The early 125 road bikes used an iron liner in a cast magnesium drum. Find one that's been stored in damp conditions and it's almost certainly corroded at the joint face - To the point where i was shown a drum where the liner simply fell out...Speedway JAP motors were available with Mag crankcases, even with the best chromate coatings available at the time, they were limited life parts.

The Cosworth F1 V8 engines heads they had made in Mag didn't last the bedding in on the Dyno.
They were soon after followed by failure of the engine block.
That story came from a Cosworth designer.
The guy said it was grossly unsuitable for anything other than stuff like valve covers and that stuff better made of Carbon Fibre anyway.
YZR500's never had much luck with them either. From memory they were 12,000 pound a pop.
Not sure how much mag was in 7R/G50 and Manx cases.
I think to get it to work properly the part has to be designed from the onset to use mag, that said I always loved the look of the Chromate coating.
I have spent many years drooling over pics of Fontana, Oldini and similar brakes.
The commercial aircraft industry went away from Mag for the Wheels as it was more trouble than it was worth re the in service testing requirements and then repainting etc.

Grumph

23rd October 2015, 11:58

swarfie

23rd October 2015, 12:03

True magnesium castings are pretty rare. Elektron, which contains Aluminium, Zinc and manganese is much more common - and stronger.
There are several alloys available which are pretty good but in the words of a Velocette designer whose name escapes me, they're still just "electrified dirt"

Mr Moore's friend John Bradley covers it comprehensively in Vol 2 of his book.

Charles Udall. He was famous for all sorts of nicknames. Their dyno building was called 'The Din House'. He put a supercharger on a KTT and called it 'Wiffling Clara'....the list goes on.

Grumph

23rd October 2015, 12:09

Charles Udall. He was famous for all sorts of nicknames. Their dyno building was called 'The Din House'

No Udall died postwar - the one i'm thinking of died prewar '39? during TT week anyway. coined "whiffling Clara" and several others
edit - definitely not Udall...

Grumph

23rd October 2015, 12:15

I had to look it up - Harold Willis. He was the one also who remarked that ever since they'd put the list of TT wins on the tank, they hadn't won another one...

husaberg

23rd October 2015, 12:16

No Udall died postwar - the one i'm thinking of died prewar '39? during TT week anyway. coined "whiffling Clara" and several others
edit - definitely not Udall...

He did the Le velo though?
Irving was there around about that time too.
Udall did the Roarer prewar I can't remember who did the four that was never finished.

Grumph

23rd October 2015, 12:23

He did the Le velo though?
Irving was there around about that time too.
Udall did the Roarer prewar I can't remember who did the four that was never finished.

Udall took over the Roarer project when Willis died. Udall did much of the postwar road bike development I think.
Pretty sure the four was mainly driven by Peter Goodman.

swarfie

23rd October 2015, 12:26

I had to look it up - Harold Willis. He was the one also who remarked that ever since they'd put the list of TT wins on the tank, they hadn't won another one...

Bugger me...yer right...as usual. He died of meningitis. I had to look it up too:rolleyes:

husaberg

23rd October 2015, 12:28

I had to look it up - Harold Willis. He was the one also who remarked that ever since they'd put the list of TT wins on the tank, they hadn't won another one...

Just found too its in the second link

All air that is compressed is heated anyway.
The design Its bloody simple yet fiendishly clever.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302780&d=1411967639
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302779&d=1411967637
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302778&d=1411967635
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302777&d=1411967633
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302776&d=1411967631
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302775&d=1411967628
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302774&d=1411967626
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302773&d=1411967624
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302772&d=1411967622
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=302771&d=1411967619

husaberg

23rd October 2015, 12:30

bugger me...yer right...as usual. He died of meningitis. I had to look it up too:rolleyes:

lol .................

WilDun

23rd October 2015, 17:01

lol .................

How do you melt magnesium / magnesium alloy without it catching fire? (eg. as in chainsaw cases, mag wheels etc.)
.....and in the case of the fire on "Sheffield" in the Falklands War, i believe that it was the electrical cabelling which caught fire and when the aluminium alloy structures got hot enough then the ally caught fire (I'm told that ally will burn like magnesium when conditions are right).

husaberg

23rd October 2015, 17:07

How do you melt magnesium / magnesium alloy without it catching fire? (eg. as in chainsaw cases, mag wheels etc.)
.....and in the case of the fire on "Sheffield" in the Falklands War, i believe that it was the electrical cabelling which caught fire and when the aluminium alloy structures got hot enough then the ally caught fire (I'm told that ally will burn like magnesium when conditions are right).

No idea but as a guess it is melted in the absence of oxygen?
The heat of Melted aluminium is enough to set it on fire (ie like the MG powder on the risers)

You made me use google

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/R6YtjVcvjWw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
In the Questions and answers below the video
Q Why doesn't the magnesium (A) burn it’s not pure enough
Burning sulfur makes sulfur dioxide, preventing the magnesium from burning.
That might be the powder he is throwing on after the pour and while he is removing the dross. I thought it was flux but it might be more than that?
The furnace must have no oxygen present.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wZt1YnFMfLQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
it seems it ignites 200 degrees before it melts
Some interesting stuff I never knew about CO2 and MG.

F5 Dave

23rd October 2015, 20:29

Well wiki schooled me up. Superstructure was actually steel. Urban myth about the mag ally.

Frits Overmars

24th October 2015, 01:57

Burning sulfur makes sulfur dioxide, preventing the magnesium from burning.That might be the powder he is throwing on after the pour.The colors seem to indicate so: sulphur is yellow and it burns with a blue flame. But I see no breathing equipment in the video so maybe it wasn't suplhur.
Sniffing the slightest trace of SO2 is an unforgettable experience (like taking a hammer-blow on the nose). It's one of the things I survived in my inquisitive youth.

Lightbulb

24th October 2015, 08:43

One of the advantages of the old oil/diesel furnaces was that the exhaust was directed over the melt, and dramatically reduced the amount of oxygen that could get to the melting material. A friend of mine did castings commercially like that,with results better than the so called modern way of induction furnaces etc. One day he let slip the real reason for using the old diesel furnace. It was really interesting to me at least. You still have to use the fluxes etc.
Neil

husaberg

24th October 2015, 11:25

The colors seem to indicate so: sulphur is yellow and it burns with a blue flame. But I see no breathing equipment in the video so maybe it wasn't suplhur.
Sniffing the slightest trace of SO2 is an unforgettable experience (like taking a hammer-blow on the nose). It's one of the things I survived in my inquisitive youth.

Someone mentioned in the video that it seemed "third world conditions" was he actually wearing any real PPE I will have to go back and watch.
not sure re the ear protection being sufficient or most of it. It appears to be filmed in the PRC.

WilDun

24th October 2015, 13:21

Well wiki schooled me up. Superstructure was actually steel. Urban myth about the mag ally.

Maybe I should change my information source from Urban Myth to Wicki then - lesser of two evils! - I think I said aluminium alloy though - or did I? :scratch:

husaberg

24th October 2015, 13:35

Maybe I should change my information source from Urban Myth to Wicki then - lesser of two evils! :scratch:

Bugger both of them this is the good oil
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/New_zealand
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Holland
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/United_States_of_America
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Austrailia
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/MotoGP
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Trabant
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/HowTo:Kill_two_birds_with_one_stone

When you guy were going on about it I thought you meant a landrover catching fire.

The M113 APCs we used to have were made of Aluminium Alloy. supposedly the RPG's used to go straight through one side and out the other with out the shaped copper lance causing to much issues as the armour was that soft.
Only issue was I think the bullets used to go through them like butter as well.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8f/USAF_M113_APC_at_Camp_Bucca%2C_Iraq.jpg/640px-USAF_M113_APC_at_Camp_Bucca%2C_Iraq.jpg

F5 Dave

24th October 2015, 13:58

Well as long as you aren't foolish enough to be standing in the way at least you wouldn't get blown up.

husaberg

24th October 2015, 14:22

Well as long as you aren't foolish enough to be standing in the way at least you wouldn't get blown up.

I found this
http://www.history.army.mil/books/vietnam/tactical/chapter9.htm
They later used Cyclone mesh as armour augmentation against RPGS

I think the original story was the high explosive went through them witout detonating but I guess the RPG worked as intended so thus the need for the mesh gates/fences

The armored vehicles themselves provided protection against the enemy's small arms and automatic weapons, but the men added a new device to protect the vehicles against the armor-piercing B40 rocket-propelled grenade (RPG). It was called the RPG screen. Nothing more than a section of "cyclone" fence, it caused a shaped charge warhead to detonate before it hit the vehicle. Each crew set up a section of fence in front of its position, and the command element in the center established a second screen around its vehicles. This simple expedient saved many vehicles and bunker positions.

Gee they even developed it further
316795

SO if the Russians invade we will all know to armour our Prados with cyclone gates ( I have about 20 of them so I am all sweet)

WilDun

24th October 2015, 16:22

They later used Cyclone mesh as armour augmentation against RPGS

The four stroke boys could fit that inside the crankcases - might save the track from becoming saturated in oil every time they blow up!

Flettner

24th October 2015, 16:56

husaberg

24th October 2015, 17:18

D2, draged out of the storage cow shed, haven't run it for five years. Fired right up. Yeah Right, took nearly half a day, pull to carb to bits, pull the mag to bits, clean them both then she fired straight up. Had to drive it for a few miles across the farm next door, I have to admit it was good fun! Gave it a wash, the birds had turned it nearly white. Grand kids and I had a great time ripping around the back yard.
That's Beautiful.
Show all those unfamiliar with the old D2 how these wee gems are started (ie the starter motor system)
A guy I know has the full set of Cats up to D8

The four stroke boys could fit that inside the crankcases - might save the track from becoming saturat5ed in oil every time they blow up!
Most of the classes in road racing now require the bikes to run Diapers (bellypan catch tanks) yes even the 2ts, I think the four stokes incontinence is due to all their additional parts they have stuffed in there already.

polinizei

24th October 2015, 18:55

Is there any best practise to define the shrinking factor for aluminium casting?

Cylinder with fins and 60mm bore

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/23/973875c7fc848918fc8dcb62e1a3f26d.jpg

husaberg

24th October 2015, 19:28

Is there any best practise to define the shrinking factor for aluminium casting?

Cylinder with fins and 60mm bore

Neil can do the shrinkage factor as it varies plus I can't remember but it was something like 1.5 to 2 %. But remember you need to allow a Machining allowance for the finished surfaces like the bore as well.
From memory by internal bore is 49mm vs a finished size of 54mm to allow for casting finish defects and machining plus shrinkage.

Ocean1

24th October 2015, 19:38

the starter motor system

I had to repair one once. The main engine had thrown a rod through the starter motor block and it was in about 5 pieces.

Got everything for the main engine, but a new starter block couldn't be had for any money. Braized it up, line bored the mains and bores and filled it with a new crank, rods and pistons. Probably still going.

Just remembered something weird about that job: I had to modify the mag drive, it was 180 deg out. Had me fucked then and it's got me fucked now.

husaberg

24th October 2015, 19:45

I had to repair one once. The main engine had thrown a rod through the starter motor block and it was in about 5 pieces.

Got everything for the main engine, but a new starter block couldn't be had for any money. Braized it up, line bored the mains and bores and filled it with a new crank, rods and pistons. Probably still going.

Just remembered something weird about that job: I had to modify the mag drive, it was 180 deg out. Had me fucked then and it's got me fucked now.

Did you swap the plug leads LOL:bleh:
I have always loved the D2's since I was a kid.

Flettner

24th October 2015, 19:48

Just remembered something weird about that job: I had to modify the mag drive, it was 180 deg out. Had me fucked then and it's got me fucked now.

Funny thing, the ignition wires emerging from the mag are opposite ie left hand wire goes to right hand cylinder? Just noticed that today when I had the mag in bits. They are not fun to work on. Any way once we got spark and fuel it fired right up, who would have thought, I was getting sick of pulling to rope. Actualy the ignition problem turned out to be corrosion on the output lug to the off switch, corrosion was shorting the ignition to earth, cleaned it up and the sparks came back, lucky as I had run out of ideas by then.

Flettner

24th October 2015, 19:53

Is there any best practise to define the shrinking factor for aluminium casting?

Cylinder with fins and 60mm bore

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/23/973875c7fc848918fc8dcb62e1a3f26d.jpg

Approx 1.5% for CC601, although it depends on the alloy, LM 13 would be less.
If I'm making a 50mm bore I'll cast it at 45 / 46 mm

Ocean1

24th October 2015, 19:55

Did you swap the plug leads LOL:bleh:
I have always loved the D2's since I was a kid.

Can't even remember if it was 180 deg... Fuck it was 40 years ago, but no possible configuration of parts on that bloody thing resulted in correct timing.

Flettner

24th October 2015, 19:58

The water jacket core box for the zurg cylinder, I will probably copy cast this core box into aluminium so I can use shell core sand ( hot set sand )

Ocean1

24th October 2015, 20:06

Funny thing, the ignition wires emerging from the mag are opposite ie left hand wire goes to right hand cylinder? Just noticed that today when I had the mag in bits. They are not fun to work on. Any way once we got spark and fuel it fired right up, who would have thought, I was getting sick of pulling to rope. Actualy the ignition problem turned out to be corrosion on the output lug to the off switch, corrosion was shorting the ignition to earth, cleaned it up and the sparks came back, lucky as I had run out of ideas by then.

Yeah, think it was 90 deg out now I think about it... They were pretty crude even then, compared to pretty much everything else. They did some impressive hrs though, and the materials they used were bloody good.

husaberg

24th October 2015, 20:11

Yeah, think it was 90 deg out now I think about it... They were pretty crude even then, compared to pretty much everything else. They did some impressive hrs though, and the materials they used were bloody good.

Bert Monroe thought so too rear axel (Cat grader) from memory heated in a forge and flattened with a power hammer. He used Ford axel earlier but said the cats were better steel.
http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g327/jhe-1973/Bonneville/DSC_0654a.jpg

WilDun

24th October 2015, 20:17

Flettner, - Caterpillar Diesel? .... carburettor, mag ??? :scratch:

Flettner

24th October 2015, 20:23

Flettner, - Caterpillar Diesel? .... carburettor, mag ??? :scratch:

Starter motor, two cylinder petrol engine. Rope start (and sweat and blood if you don't do it right).
My dad had a D7 it was also petrol engine start but by then the petrol engine had an electric start, sooo civilised :laugh:
They can be a right performance to start.
Some International Harvester bulldozers had petrol start but they had a extra valve that opened the main combustion chamber to auxiliary chamber with a spark plug in it (lower compression). There was a carburetor and a mag fitted to them as well. You started the main engine on petrol, warmed it up then shut the valve in the combustion chamber, then it was a diesel. Same engine.

Ocean1

24th October 2015, 20:44

They can be a right performance to start.

The MOW had a bunch of them up at Twizel on various projects. The trick is to chuck a bunch of rags/sawdust/diesel under the sump and light it. Give it 10 min while the tea brewed and then start the starter motor. Another 10 min to drink the tea and then start turning the main engine over.

They did get a little bit black, but that's how it's done when it's below zero.

WilDun

24th October 2015, 22:14

Frits Overmars

24th October 2015, 23:25

It's a whole new world! - well an old new world! - petrol, diesel, Rygers, oil less, 70:1, lots of oil 16:1 long conrods, short conrods, no conrods, rings, ringless, fires under the sump - where's it all going to end? it's all getting too much for me! :facepalm:Just take it one step at a time Will. That's what I did; here's me with my Cat D4 :yes:.
316807
I told the guys in the Land Rover not to follow my tracks, but they knew better :nya:.

WilDun

25th October 2015, 10:14

Just take it one step at a time Will. That's what I did; here's me with my Cat D4
I told the guys in the Land Rover not to follow my tracks, but they knew better :nya:.

Thanks Frits, - thought I was going crazy for a brief moment. - You sure that wasn't you driving the Land Rover? ...... naw, of course not!

......and yes, we all know better, ie. till it happens - and I feel that I can speak with some authority here! :rolleyes:

WilDun

26th October 2015, 09:34

Talking about being bogged down and grand kids, I had three staying (and their parents) for a few weeks and have been a little overwhelmed.
It was all fine of course but my foundry progress has been 'zilch' and then I'll be away for a few days this week as well, but hope to be back again next week playing with (sodium silicate/co2) moulds.

Watched most of the moto GP late last night, (went to sleep with about 5 laps to go) and although Rossi is being portrayed as a 'villain' I believe he was pushed into it by that "little shit" who had no need to be riding like that with absolutely no margin for safety - he was going nowhere in the championship anyway.
Rossi would be remembering the incident where someone else from Italy (Simonchelli) who riding at at probably 110% as usual and was killed. - that's my take anyway!
:crazy:

Frits Overmars

26th October 2015, 10:08

Watched most of the moto GP late last night, (went to sleep with about 5 laps to go) and although Rossi is being portrayed as a 'villain' I believe he was pushed into it by that "little shit" who had no need to be riding like that with absolutely no margin for safety - he was going nowhere in the championship anyway.Rossi was accused of kicking Marquez but I studied the video in slow motion: Marquez steered into Rossi although Rossi had still left sufficient room for Marquez at the left side of the track. Marquez banged his helmet against Rossi's knee. Rossi naturally pushed back in the course of which his foot slid off the rest.
You can judge for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2DiV26-jqs

husaberg

26th October 2015, 10:11

Rossi was accused of kicking Marquez but I studied the video in slow motion: Marquez steered into Rossi although Rossi had still left sufficient room for Marquez at the left side of the track. Marquez banged his helmet against Rossi's knee. Rossi pushed back in the course of which his foot slid oft the rest.
You can judge for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2DiV26-jqs

Totally agree with that Frits but I believe Marrquez actually made two contacts with Rossi.
I made these Gifs.
In part of the Summary of events even Mike Webb even admitted they believed Marqseesze was trying to slow Rossi to advantage others

“Despite what Marquez said we think he was deliberately trying to affect the pace of Valentino.
http://i.imgur.com/HtqPowY.gif

http://i.imgur.com/4eyttsm.gif
Val clearly baulked him he admitted so.
The points being taken off is fine, but to start on the rear of the grid as well, is too much.

Frits Overmars

26th October 2015, 11:05

husaberg

26th October 2015, 11:41

Great Gifs, Husa. I can only respond with a couple of stills I found on Facebook, hinting at the favor Marquez did to his fellow countryman Lorenzo, the only rider left in the championship battle with Rossi (I'm actually surprised that the second picture made it through the Facebook censorship at all).
316823 316824

I did do one of Someones dad er Not celebrating when his son crashed as well.
Those gifs are utterly simple to make
http://imgur.com/vidgif

http://i.imgur.com/YiEtp2Q.gif
one could say it was like he was cheering for a goal at soccer rather than someone he is rather attached to crashing.............
See the moment when he realises he is being filmed.

WilDun

26th October 2015, 13:33

See the moment when he realises he is being filmed.

To be honest I think he was secretly watching the Rugby world cup (NZ v France) you could distinctly see he was shouting "ALL BLACKS" when he was caught on camera and he missed his son head butting Rossi! and his over dramatic (and staged) demise!
I think Rossi just slowed down to make his landing a little softer - well, he is well known as a nice guy!

Flettner

26th October 2015, 15:41

Are the All Blacks playing somewhere? It's great having no television.
FOS under construction, these beads on a string are GOOD to use. Much faster stick down time.

Flettner

26th October 2015, 15:43

Beads with hot glue

husaberg

26th October 2015, 15:45

Beads with hot glue

Wee gem there Neil.

WilDun

26th October 2015, 16:41

Wee gem there Neil.

What are you really thinking Husa? ;) Quite imaginative colour scheme I reckon!

Neill,
I was going to try and make something just for practice but all the work involved would be wasted so I'll try and design a relatively simple experimental engine which is actually going to work so i can follow your lead in doing this sort of stuff, it will be dull and unimaginative of course, but a means to an end - I'll leave the more imaginative artistic stuff to Husa!

I was thinking that you could use the same gear cluster contained in a "cartridge" with a corresponding cavity in whatever engine you were experimenting with, (giving you a "one box does all" type scenario). Royal Enfield did that with their GT250 ?

My cousin got driven off the road by a truck the other day (he was driving a tractor) and is likely to end up a quadriplegic, - you need to enjoy every day doing what you would like to do, (as opposed to what others think you should do for enjoyment), cos you just never know! :mellow:

This casting lark will do me just fine I think.

Flettner

26th October 2015, 18:09

Wee gem there Neil.

Ha Ha, I wondered who would spot that, should have known:facepalm::laugh:
Anyway see the beads are on a string, much easyer and faster to apply.
And we are all happy with the number of exhaust ports?

Lightbulb

26th October 2015, 19:28

No wonder those patterns are so expensive. Pearls are not cheap. Maybe that is why he has Pearls of wisdom.
More tricks revealed, well done Flettner.

WilDun

26th October 2015, 20:35

And we are all happy with the number of exhaust ports?

Yes of course (3?), but speaking for myself I think I'll just wait and see how it all pans out before commenting on the number. - reminds me on a couple of model aircraft engines I had (ie before they went over to the Schneurle system of scavenging) but I suspect this one isn't quite as simple!

Lightbulb

26th October 2015, 20:40

Yeah this is really neat to see in person. Nice to see it taking place.
Neil

Frits Overmars

26th October 2015, 21:51

And we are all happy with the number of exhaust ports?You won't have to worry about getting sufficient blowdown angle.area and even less about cooling any exhaust bridges. But I wonder where you are going to put the pipes on the bike. Fortunately you're building a single and not a V-8 :D.

Flettner

26th October 2015, 23:20

You won't have to worry about getting sufficient blowdown angle.area and even less about cooling any exhaust bridges. But I wonder where you are going to put the pipes on the bike. Fortunately you're building a single and not a V-8 :D.

Yes, let me worry about the pipes, three into one tail section (with a trick inside). This cylinder has more to it than you can see yet, I don't have to worry about casting a water jacket as this cylinder will have more of a water bath:lol:
And don't let the head be attached to the cylinder:whistle: Athough it will have a ring ( probably two rings) and a piston (and they will touch but not touch the head).
This cylinder it destined to bolt onto the same bottom end as the sleeve engine just have a much tighter crank case (because of all the transfer port volume).
There is a second cylinder (same but different) that is designed to bolt on to the "High Pressure Crankcase" but uses a different induction system with the reeds being spread around the cank case transfers so as to use augmented flow, carbs connected to these reeds / transfers.
It's good to have a few cylinders on the go at once as while one is glueing you can be working on the other. Thats what I tell myself anyway.

ken seeber

26th October 2015, 23:28

Yes, let me worry about the pipes, three into one tail section (with a trick inside). This cylinder has more to it than you can see yet, I don't have to worry about casting a water jacket as this cylinder will have more of a water bath:lol:

Fletto, how about having the three tailpipes all terminating together, but side by side. It'd just be interesting or vexing if they all blew different levels of smoke.

Flettner

26th October 2015, 23:37

Fletto, how about having the three tailpipes all terminating together, but side by side. It'd just be interesting or vexing if they all blew different levels of smoke.

You make the pipes and I'll run with that:lol:
They will be short as this should rev all to hell, I don't know perhaps 15000 / 15500 (100cc)

Frits Overmars

27th October 2015, 03:39

You make the pipes and I'll run with that. They will be short as this should rev all to hell, I don't know perhaps 15000 / 15500 (100cc)That's not hell; it's not even purgatory, just common practice. Lemme do some thinking on how to present this. I'll be back!

I'm back, with a couple of assumptions to keep things surveyable.
First assumption: bore and stroke are equal; it's a square engine. This means the stroke is proportional to the cubic root of the cylinder capacity.

The average piston speed is inversely proportional to the stroke.
The admissible rpm is proportional to the average piston speed.
so
The admissible rpm is proportional to 1 / (cubic root of the cylinder capacity)

Second assumption: maximum rpm is 14500 rpm for a regular 125 cc engine (based on the Aprilia RSA; may be a bit optimistic for any particular engine).
so
maximum rpm for your engine is cubic root (125 / cylinder capacity of your engine) x 14500 rpm

for a regular 100 cc engine that would yield a maximum rpm of 15620

But a FOS engine has 20% more angle.area for both the exhaust blowdown and the transfers, so your 100cc could rev to 1,2 x 15620 = 17182

Third assumption: rpm of maximum power is 0,9 x maximum rpm.

Flettner

27th October 2015, 07:16

That's not hell; it's not even purgatory, just common practice. Lemme do some thinking on how to present this. I'll be back!

I'm back, with a couple of assumptions to keep things surveyable.
First assumption: bore and stroke are equal; it's a square engine. This means the stroke is proportional to the cubic root of the cylinder capacity.

The average piston speed is inversely proportional to the stroke.
The admissible rpm is proportional to the average piston speed.
so
The admissible rpm is proportional to 1 / (cubic root of the cylinder capacity)

Second assumption: maximum rpm is 14500 rpm for a regular 125 cc engine (based on the Aprilia RSA; may be a bit optimistic for any particular engine).
so
maximum rpm for your engine is cubic root (125 / cylinder capacity of your engine) x 14500 rpm

for a regular 100 cc engine that would yield a maximum rpm of 15620

But a FOS engine has 20% more angle.area for both the exhaust blowdown and the transfers, so your 100cc could rev to 1,2 x 15620 = 17182

Third assumption: rpm of maximum power is 0,9 x maximum rpm.

Yeah but not but, I'm building it so I'm not expecting anything too special, in my world that is all to hell. If I saw over 15000 rpm I'd be doing back flips (I can now with this new hip):yes:
The new hip is going to "get it" this week end, Acerbis four hour.

Frits Overmars

27th October 2015, 12:47

Hip hip hurray Neil :2thumbsup.
I've never done a back flip without a bike yet but as the saying goes: you're never to old. Should I try? :D

Flettner

27th October 2015, 13:08

Hip hip hurray Neil :2thumbsup.
I've never done a back flip without a bike yet but as the saying goes: you're never to old. Should I try? :D

No, you might break your hip:bleh:

Flettner

28th October 2015, 10:04

This 3D lark is easy:laugh:
TT 500 covers anyone?

F5 Dave

28th October 2015, 16:59

Thanks but I sold mine in 1990.

Flettner

28th October 2015, 19:23

Thanks but I sold mine in 1990.

No I'm not marketing these, I made them for a friend of mine who has an HL (TT 500 engine).
Why did you sell the only decient fourstroke Yamaha ever made?;)
I rode mine for the first time in years, took the kick start off so I wouldn't be tempted to kick start it, push start with decompressor. That would be all I need one big backfire and another trip to the hospital. As you will probably remember they are a strangely fun bike to ride.
Meagan and I were practicing for the four hour last weekend and being that the YZ and TT are the only two bikes I own, that run, I drew the short straw, never the less we had a good days riding.
Truth is my (HL) friend drew these covers and my worker Phillip made them so I had sod all to do with them, Phillip made a good job I thought.

husaberg

28th October 2015, 19:26

No I'm not marketing these, I made them for a friend of mine who has an HL (TT 500 engine).
Why did you sell the only decient fourstroke Yamaha ever made?;)
I rode mine for the first time in years, took the kick start off so I wouldn't be tempted to kick start it, push start with decompressor. That would be all I need one big backfire and another trip to the hospital. As you will probably remember they are a strangely fun bike to ride.
Meagan and I were practicing for the four hour last weekend and being that the YZ and TT are the only two bikes I own that run I drew the short straw, never the less we had a good days riding.
Truth is my (HL) friend drew these covers and my worker Phillip made them so I had sod all to do with them, Phillip made a good job I thought.

You paid Philips wages though Neil, so you do kind of own him.;)

Flettner

28th October 2015, 19:32

Three port FOS proceeding, changed the hardener colour for you Husa.

husaberg

28th October 2015, 19:38

Three port FOS proceeding, changed the hardener colour for you Husa.

I think that cements our relationship Neil.
Actually what bottom end is that going onto?

Flettner

28th October 2015, 19:56

I think that cements our relationship Neil.
Actually what bottom end is that going onto?

Sleeve valve bottom end with a different crank ( shorter stroke and wider to take up the extra space), no fancy Ryger type crank cases just yet.
So it will fit in the same YZF 250 frame.
51mm stroke, 50.9mm bore ( Strike piston ).

husaberg

28th October 2015, 20:02

Sleeve valve bottom end with a different crank ( shorter stroke and wider to take up the extra space), no fancy Ryger type crank cases just yet.
So it will fit in the same YZF 250 frame.
51mm stroke, 50.9mm bore ( Strike piston ).

A 100cc kart one?
Those small bore KT100 (can't remember the letters)ones have a real low gudgeon location like a Villiers.
Ken will add the details.;)
Or are you going to use one of the Italian Kart pistons Ken also Sells?

Ok J is the small bore one and S is the bore common 52mm plus one.
J for Junior S for Senior?

This is the J piston. Photos from Yow Ling.

F5 Dave

28th October 2015, 20:45

=Flettner;1130916774]No Im not marketing these, I made them for a friend of mine who has an HL (TT 500 engine).
Why did you sell the only decient fourstroke Yamaha ever made?;)
I rode mine for the first time in years, took the kick start off so I wouldn't be tempted to kick start it, push start with decompressor. That would be all I need one big backfire and another trip to the hospital. As you will probably remember they are a strangely fun bike to ride.
Meagan and I were practicing for the four hour last weekend and being that the YZ and TT are the only two bikes I own, that run, I drew the short straw, never the less we had a good days riding.
Truth is my (HL) friend drew these covers and my worker Phillip made them so I had sod all to do with them, Phillip made a good job I thought.
Well i sold my 750SP, that was ok too, but needed funds for the 2 stroke project.

Not sure I did get kickback on the TT, but the thought of going back to the hospital doesn't appeal, I've only left there earlier today getting some titanium work removed.

ken seeber

28th October 2015, 22:04

A 100cc kart one?
J for Junior S for Senior?

This is the J piston. Photos from Yow Ling.

Husa, spot on as usual. Yep, the J (KT100J) seemingly unique to Oz, has a long compression height compared to the S engine (approx. 33.5 cf 23).

Dunno how you do it, finding all this info. A mental telepathic connection to some powerful search engine? A USB port in the side of your head with a cable connected directly to Mr Google, although by now you are probably WiFi(ed) or fibre optic(ted)?

Irrespective: :first:

Frits Overmars

29th October 2015, 08:01

Dunno how you do it, finding all this info. A USB port in the side of your head with a cable connected directly to Mr Google, although by now you are probably WiFi(ed) or fibre optic(ted)?..........316930

husaberg

29th October 2015, 18:21

Husa, spot on as usual. Yep, the J (KT100J) seemingly unique to Oz, has a long compression height compared to the S engine (approx. 33.5 cf 23).

Dunno how you do it, finding all this info. A mental telepathic connection to some powerful search engine? A USB port in the side of your head with a cable connected directly to Mr Google, although by now you are probably WiFi(ed) or fibre optic(ted)?

Irrespective: :first:

So why did Yamaha design another engine when they already had the KT100S (Because they could I guess) was the rest of the engine other than the top end different?
Alas no wifi usb subport, I have a ability to recall obscure irrelevant information yet struggle to recall birthdays and adversary's etc etc.
When we seen the Kt100J piston all the two stroke 100cc bucket people thought we had finally a non destroked option but it was unfortunately a bit tall for most.
We are all however highly grateful of the continued production of Strike KT100S 52mm plus options though. the rules have been amended to allow their use with a simple carb restriction

ken seeber

30th October 2015, 13:18

So why did Yamaha design another engine when they already had the KT100S (Because they could I guess) was the rest of the engine other than the top end different?

Hooser, the KT100J was based on an industrial engine called the MT110. This was Ø52 * 50, CI barrel, float carb, governed and fan cooled. The J used the same cases, albeit turned down where the cast inner fan cooled shroud was, given a cast iron sleeve (with poor quality precast ports) that was cast into the aluminium finned jacket (tiny single exh port and two small transfers), a 50 mm piston (with a crappy tapered ring) and a Walbro WB3A carb (same as the Ø52 * 46.13 KT100S).
I suppose they chose this construction for the lower performance J engine, because it was cheaper, as it used a number of parts from the higher volume MT110.

316936316937316938

husaberg

30th October 2015, 16:50

Hooser, the KT100J was based on an industrial engine called the MT110. This was Ø52 * 50, CI barrel, float carb, governed and fan cooled. The J used the same cases, albeit turned down where the cast inner fan cooled shroud was, given a cast iron sleeve (with poor quality precast ports) that was cast into the aluminium finned jacket (tiny single exh port and two small transfers), a 50 mm piston (with a crappy tapered ring) and a Walbro WB3A carb (same as the Ø52 * 46.13 KT100S).
I suppose they chose this construction for the lower performance J engine, because it was cheaper, as it used a number of parts from the higher volume MT110.

316936316937316938

The kids class ones here well locally at least used to run an iron horse or something.
Your post reminded me there was also the other rotary valve 100 Yamahas as well.
http://www.vintagekart.4t.com/yamahas.html
316944316945316946
Plus a KT100P
http://vintagekarts.com/forum/view_topic.php?id=4265&forum_id=2

I seen this one as well. So what the heck is that carb was it the std on on the Rotary valve KT100?
316948
http://vintagekarts.com/forum/view_topic.php?id=4265&forum_id=2

polinizei

31st October 2015, 05:33

Neil can do the shrinkage factor as it varies plus I can't remember but it was something like 1.5 to 2 %. But remember you need to allow a Machining allowance for the finished surfaces like the bore as well.
From memory by internal bore is 49mm vs a finished size of 54mm to allow for casting finish defects and machining plus shrinkage.
I will try 2% for the first shot. The next thing is the mold slope for the fins. A mold slope with 1,5-2,0° is looking very roughly. Is there a chance for unmolding 0.75-1.0° or is this attempt waste of time?

WilDun

31st October 2015, 08:56

. Is there a chance for unmolding 0.75-1.0° or is this attempt waste of time?

I guess it will all depend on how much time you have and whether or not you are using a hardened mould (sodium silicate) as opposed to greensand etc.
I remember FLETTNER said somewhere that he used a (tidied up) original Kawasaki head as a pattern and he got it out of the sand by carefully 'tapping' it and wriggling it around till it could be withdrawn, - those production heads don't appear to have a lot of draught angle (or 'draft' as the Americans say) at all!
I reckon just try it and you'll know for sure - but, a few extra degrees in this case can't really hurt anything!

husaberg

31st October 2015, 12:30

I will try 2% for the first shot. The next thing is the mold slope for the fins. A mold slope with 1,5-2,0° is looking very roughly. Is there a chance for unmolding 0.75-1.0° or is this attempt waste of time?
Ask Neil.
I know a lot of the simple copy cast stuff is just "wiggled" to allow for the shrinkage factor.

I guess it will all depend on how much time you have and whether or not you are using a hardened mould (sodium silicate) as opposed to greensand etc.
I remember FLETTNER said somewhere that he used a (tidied up) original Kawasaki head as a pattern and he got it out of the sand by carefully 'tapping' it and wriggling it around till it could be withdrawn, - those production heads don't appear to have a lot of draught angle (or 'draft' as the Americans say) at all!
I reckon just try it and you'll know for sure - but, a few extra degrees in this case can't rally hurt anything!

He had to sand down each fin individually if memory serves. The stock Japanese stuff is likely diecast with a steel tool. which is why they gat away with intricate and fine fining designs try something like a euro sandcast maybe Maico or CZ Jawa or its ilk for appropriate drafts and what fining you would get away with. Brian Demarge mentioned he did or has a programme that analyses air cooled fining patterns effectiveness or something similar.If I quote him he might share.

I did some work on Enfield engine cooling if its any help

Stephen

Not sure of your Eng mod , but the design of the fins I can help I have some papers , on them somewhere

Stephen

No,,,,

Stephen

Actually it made me even more impressed by those old english designers ...just enough and no more !

Michael Moore

31st October 2015, 14:39

My friend Jeff and I have done some test molds with 2.25" tall by approx 1.5 degree fins. Some release paint that has AL powder in it helps a lot to get them out of SS or urethane binder sand but it still doesn't come out easy. That is with fins sections about 1.5-2" long and 3 fins on about .5" centers.

It looks like determining a good strip time to pull the pattern before the bound sand hardens completely will be important. Also, if you use the wrong paint on your pattern that reacts with the sand binder you won't get it out at all!

:facepalm:

I'm going to make a couple of pneumatic matchplate vibrators to see if they will help get the pattern out. Once those are made we'll try pulling the test patterns out of Petrobond, though that may need some support wires inserted into the fins in the mold to support them. We'll see.

cheers,
Michael

WilDun

1st November 2015, 12:03

if you use the wrong paint on your pattern that reacts with the sand binder you won't get it out at all!

....... test patterns out of Petrobond, though that may need some support wires inserted into the fins in the mold to support them. We'll see.

I'm told you can get a Teflon spray coating, would that be of any use for spraying on the pattern? - Any of you guys here know the best place to obtain that?

How tricky would it be to put support wires in thin sections like fins?

Flettner, did your hip hold out ok?

Michael Moore

1st November 2015, 15:02

from here;

http://buickcity.blogspot.com/2010/08/liberator-engine-work-at-buick.html

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NuPZBgRtOmk/TzQkWggansI/AAAAAAAAJMg/IaEpDzajqIQ/s640/cooling%2Bfin%2Bpins%2B%25282%2529.JPG

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-p2kDJGTIlbY/TzQkHsrWV5I/AAAAAAAAJMU/4F0RYjTaIq4/s1600/cooling%2Bfin%2Bpins.jpg

It appears there were 700+ support wires in each mold.

cheers,
Michael

ken seeber

1st November 2015, 15:36

A few years ago, in an ill fated attempt to provide a better cylinder for the KT100J engine, using a much more accurate core set up and a shrunk in CNC machined liner, we used the original J cylinder as a pattern for the external. We wire cut an existing cylinder down the guts and back screwed these to 10 mm alum plates, which were then set into 2 pattern boxes (cope/drag). The actual fins, were spaced at 10, were 2.0 at tips and 4.0 at bases and had a max height of 76mm. This gives a 1.0 mm drop per side, equating to 0.75 degree = draft angle.

We smoothed the fins as best we could with emery on a flat steel strip. In some case we also laid in some bog to give a less undulating surface. To help reduce friction, we also doused the pattern with some Foseco (good old British name hey!) stuff called Slipcoat. Also added a pic of some other Foseco stuff for gluing cores, but I do know of others just using a hot glue gun successfully.

Anyways, using a cold box corebinder, they were a real prick. Despite rapping etc, the sand fins often broke. It seems that waiting for the stuff to slightly go off was better than letting it go fully hard. Maybe CO2 would have been better, but as we were not going to cast them immediately after making the moulds, I was concerned that the sand would go to shit, as per our earlier experiences.

My thoughts that I would go to at least 1 degree, and that Yamaha must have used the hot box method with nicely machined pattern fins.

316987316986316988316989

Flettner

1st November 2015, 16:04

I'm told you can get a Teflon spray coating, would that be of any use for spraying on the pattern? - Any of you guys here know the best place to obtain that?

How tricky would it be to put support wires in thin sections like fins?

Flettner, did your hip hold out ok?

I use teflon spray you buy at say Supercheap but let it set properly don't be like me and be in a hurry. AND put a few coats on, don't be cheap (like me). The smoother the finish the better on fine tapers. 1 (per side) degree will work but you have to have everything in your favour. I have used wires before but your best bet is to try and keep the broken sand part intact and sand glue it back in place after the pattern is out and before you reassemble the mould. This sand glue is very good. Husa will know what is called, or Ken

Oxford dictionary ; cantankerous - bad tempered , quarrelsome, example - push starting a high compression TT500 with a soft ignition!
It was only our backup bike but we must have pushed that bugger a kilometer up and down the pits. Finally after warming up a sparkplug in the YZ first did it start!! Lucky we didn't have to use it. Meagan and I entered the Acerbis four hour as a team swapping riders after every lap, Meagan had a bad crash on her first lap but managed to get the bike home so I was forced to finish the rest of the day on my own. We got five laps in including Meagans lap. The hip performed floorlessly BUT I was well aware of it and rode accordingly, it's nice to ride now without that little man (or could be a woman) stabbing me in the hip with what felt like a knife all the time . By the end of the day the track was cut up very bad with huge holes, I am real glad I didn't have to use that TT. A fun day though.
And yes, Meagan is ok, she said when she finally managed to get up off the track she wasn't sure which bike to ride back out of the forest, as she could see two of them, mild concussion. That's why she wasn't allowd to continue.

Flettner

1st November 2015, 19:16

Where we got to on Friday, the FOS, just a bit of paint and a tidy up and it's ready to mould. Water jacket on this cylinder is botted around the outside. For reasons that will become apparent.
And the water jacket core box for the Zurg cylinder

Flettner

1st November 2015, 19:25

Same core for both sides on the Zurg. I think I will need to water core the "ears" as well, they may get hot.

F5 Dave

1st November 2015, 19:38

Hey good to hear the body working well and that your daughter is ok after her spill. Only got as adventurous as a road ride today but looking forward to getting out on the dirt bike.

Watch progress with interest.

Flettner

1st November 2015, 20:24

Hey good to hear the body working well and that your daughter is ok after her spill. Only got as adventurous as a road ride today but looking forward to getting out on the dirt bike.
.

All Hintz's have had a bang on the head at some time or other.:lol:
Good to hear you are on the mend, Aria two day trail ride is a good one. Mid Febuary.

Frits Overmars

1st November 2015, 23:41

I'm told you can get a Teflon spray coating, would that be of any use for spraying on the pattern?If Neil does it, it must work. But you better make damn sure nothing of it stays behind in the sand. If you heat teflon it may reward you with a sniff of hydrogencyanid, aka Zyklon....

Michael Moore

2nd November 2015, 04:36

Graphite spray is what I see people mentioning as a pattern release, not Teflon.

Flettner

2nd November 2015, 17:23

Graphite spray is what I see people mentioning as a pattern release, not Teflon.
Or graphite powder, rubbed into the surface of the pattern, I think it's called Plumbago ?? parting powder, I certainly use that stuff to good effect.

Michael Moore

3rd November 2015, 05:11

Yes, plumbago is the graphite parting powder. The spray can is a convenience for applying it. The powder sure makes a mess and you'd better not have an itchy nose while handling the old sock filled with dust.

polinizei

3rd November 2015, 07:29

Printing Update

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/02/7b22054b8c797dae33efc4123c4dcefa.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/02/0d9e9fc13a1cb3612ca37514da1c56ca.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/02/448f5ce9d9c290d196b8f26d22c9d3e2.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/02/0e324c2f68acdf1eccc372f609612614.jpg

Michael Moore

3rd November 2015, 09:25

What printer was used for those, and what type of material/resolution? They look much nicer than the typical hobby filament deposition printer outputs.

polinizei

3rd November 2015, 09:33

Zortrax m200
Res. 0.14mm
Filament Z-Ultrat

polinizei

3rd November 2015, 09:35

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/02/d7afa2e78c419ae56da83f4aadeca444.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/02/be23d05f3546c8b7f6a18c23f3c7ca2e.jpg

ken seeber

3rd November 2015, 11:40

Zortrax m200
Res. 0.14mm
Filament Z-Ultrat

Excellent job. Really good surface finish. We've just used an 0.3 Z increment, but must try to go down to the 0.1 and see if we can get anywhere that finish.

For A$2k, it looks a good package. Willy, you need one of these and take the lead in the southern hemisphere foundry technology stakes. :hug:

As a matter of interest, what was the time to print, say, one half of the C port corebox.

Bert

3rd November 2015, 18:53

Flettner

3rd November 2015, 19:53

FOS ready to mould up and cast.
Zurg water jackets in place
Sorry, still using turn of last century technology

husaberg

3rd November 2015, 19:57

FOS ready to mould up and cast.
Zurg water jackets in place
Sorry, still using turn of last century tech.
First Pic brought me back to Saturday mornings or was it sunday?
317060

Flettner

3rd November 2015, 19:59

First Pic brought me back to Saturday mornings or was it sunday?
317060

How cool is that, I had one of those once, FAB. (what ever that ment?)

Might have a hack at casting two of these FOS cylinders on the weekend ? Perhaps. One might be heading off shore.

husaberg

3rd November 2015, 20:39

How cool is that, I had one of those once, FAB. (what ever that ment?)

Might have a hack at casting two of these FOS cylinders on the weekend ? Perhaps. One might be heading off shore.

Its short for fabulous isn't it? it was the 60's.
Yow has one now, he posted a pic of it about 2 years ago.

polinizei

3rd November 2015, 23:20

As a matter of interest, what was the time to print, say, one half of the C port corebox.

The huge part for the core box took 18,5h. The matrial cost is about 8 EUR.
I had to print the part skewed, because there is a printer limit with 200x200x180mm.

WilDun

4th November 2015, 17:46

For A$2k, it looks a good package. Willy, you need one of these and take the lead in the southern hemisphere foundry technology stakes. :hug:

Too late Ken, when you're on the pension you don't even think about printers and all the other newfangled stuff - you just plod on with the tried and true, using standard 'Flettner' methods to obtain the same result.

If your objective isn't money making, then time doesn't really matter and you don't have to sit for hours on a computer trying to learn something you will only make use of for a couple of years anyway.

Don't get me wrong though,the printers are very interesting indeed and quite frankly I believe I could build the mechanicals relatively easily. I already have stepper motors and controllers somewhere, software really isn't all that expensive - just being a bit lethargic in my old age is the problem! :sleep:

Of course, I do make money by not going on expensive overseas trips like most other people I know tend to do! - I'm happy just pottering in my garage.

A 'friend' recently said why don't you want to go on holiday? I said I was happy at home and he said,"yeah, why go overseas and be miserable, when you can stay home and be miserable".
Of course I then tried to explain that I was very happy indeed, the only thing which could make me unhappy was having to listen to the likes of him! - obviously not being able to understand how anybody could possibly be happy if not being happy his way!

PS.
What was wrong with steam? - if it's not powered by steam, it won't work! :rolleyes:

WilDun

5th November 2015, 10:07

FOS ready to mould up and cast.
Zurg water jackets in place
Sorry, still using turn of last century technology

Just keep on keeping on with "tried and true" methods, I remember being at Tech. (trying advanced trade +) when the then new calculators were all the rage and I (having a new family and a mortgage to contend with) couldn't afford one. I loved trying to beat all the guys with fancy calculators by doing all the calculations in my head or on paper! (and I usually managed it too). - of course that didn't last, but it was fun - I can't understand how my brain has since turned to mush though! - maybe it's just laziness or lack of the enthusiasm I had then!

Anyway, I see that you seem to be persevering with both 2 and 3 exhaust port engines? - and that piston might have some significant clues as to what might be going on?

Flettner

6th November 2015, 20:56

Cylinder pattern finished, water jacket just needs painting now, jacket is made in three indentical castings. And a water inlet I guess.

tjbw

7th November 2015, 01:15

Just keep on keeping on with "tried and true" methods, I remember being at Tech. (trying advanced trade +) when the then new calculators were all the rage and I (having a new family and a mortgage to contend with) couldn't afford one. I loved trying to beat all the guys with fancy calculators by doing all the calculations in my head or on paper! (and I usually managed it too). - of course that didn't last, but it was fun - I can't understand how my brain has since turned to mush though! - maybe it's just laziness or lack of the enthusiasm I had then!

Anyway, I see that you seem to be persevering with both 2 and 3 exhaust port engines? - and that piston might have some significant clues as to what might be going on?

Calculations in your head! Could today's teenagers do that? I couldn't, I had to resort to a Thornton slide rule, which was better than a digital calculator in some respects.

Frits Overmars

7th November 2015, 05:20

Calculations in your head! Could today's teenagers do that? I couldn't, I had to resort to a Thornton slide rule, which was better than a calculator in some respects.That takes me back to high school. Our physics teacher used a slide rule and we always tried to beat him with pen and paper. Of course we didn't stand a chance with logarithms and goniometry but the man was so addicted that he would pull out his slide rule for 8 x 8 and then say 'six four zero' :D.

tjbw

7th November 2015, 07:02

That takes me back to high school. Our physics teacher used a slide rule and we always tried to beat him with pen and paper. Of course we didn't stand a chance with logarithms and goniometry but the man was so addicted that he would pull out his slide rule for 8 x 8 and then say 'six four zero' :D.

haha, the tricky bit, putting the decimal point in correct place, but great for logs, powers, exponents :D

WilDun

8th November 2015, 21:46

I went into a 'kiosk' in as shopping mall to have 2 keys cut, and when the guy had done the job, he started to fumble under the counter, muttering and swearing - I asked what was the problem, he said he couldn't find his calculator so didn't know how much to charge me!
I already had it worked out in my head and finally managed to convince him that I was correct and the money changed hands. - Probably he thought - " smartass bastard!" - what are we being taught at school nowadays? - at a guess, only political correctness!

husaberg

8th November 2015, 21:53

F5 Dave

9th November 2015, 04:52

A stint in the army would straighten him out.

Flettner

9th November 2015, 07:57

Mold box ready for sand, dividers are there to allow for the mold to be split into three parts. Pack one and harden, take out a divider pack and harden the second then the same for the third section.
Water cover is also ready to cast, just need to find some spare time. Cover will be in CC601 and cylinder will be in LM13.

Flettner

9th November 2015, 20:05

Plumbago applied, mold waiting for sand cores.

WilDun

10th November 2015, 08:38

A stint in the army would straighten him out.

Yeah - wouldn't even be able to cut keys after that - nobody to give him the orders!

Flettner - plumbago sure makes them look good! (better than that risquee' pink colour) - guess graphite is the best solution for withdrawl from the mould then? (seems to me that you have tried most methods).

Flettner

10th November 2015, 10:08

Cores, all made in the same boxes as the originals that the pattern was made from (so the core prints will be in the same place). Next just hot metal.

WilDun

10th November 2015, 12:36

Cores, all made in the same boxes as the originals that the pattern was made from (so the core prints will be in the same place). Next just hot metal.

Great stuff, good weather for outside casting, - just about all set to pour ? don't forget the photos of the operation!

Flettner

14th November 2015, 13:59

Unfolding a FOS exhaust core from it's core box. CO2 hardening sand.

WilDun

14th November 2015, 15:40

Unfolding a FOS exhaust core from it's core box. CO2 hardening sand.

That was a lot of work all told, but no doubt worth it.
Looks like it's just hatched and ready to take it's first steps - pity it's got to be sacrificial! - here's hoping it will have some success when it's all finished. I'm sure Frits is watching every move! ;)

I may get to that stage one day, but that's still a long way away!

Frits Overmars

15th November 2015, 00:41

I'm sure Frits is watching every move!You bet!
317261

Flettner

15th November 2015, 17:33

Bother the weather, I've got three FOS, one YZ360 EFI, six water jackets and two sets of crank case molds ready to pour but it's raining!
The down side of an out door foundry I guess :laugh:.
So, we are heading home from town this afternoon and I spy several old couches out on the side of the road, inorganic rubbish collection I imagine, and I say to the good wife look at all that excellent wood for pattern making, Ill grab that. Well she is mortified (I thought she knew me well enough by now) "you are NOT going through other peoples rubbish" and that was that! I might have to sneak back under the cover of darkness and collect all that treasure. You know what they say about one persons rubbish.

WilDun

15th November 2015, 21:58

Bother the weather, I've got three FOS, one YZ360 EFI, six water jackets and two sets of crank case molds ready to pour but it's raining!
:laugh:.
I say to the good wife look at all that excellent wood for pattern making, Ill grab that. Well she is mortified (I thought she knew me well enough by now) "you are NOT going through other peoples rubbish" and that was that!

That's how I got my air compressor, welding hoses etc. also I used to collect lightweight buggy wheels for model aircraft, and yes .... she was mortified! Now I sneak off to the tip and rummage through their "technical" department - talk about treasures!

You'll need a very long sunny day to do that lot! How many melts will it take ? Of course we'll look forward to seeing the results.

How long could I leave a Co2 sand mould sitting without it deteriorating?

Flettner

16th November 2015, 10:39

That's how I got my air compressor, welding hoses etc. also I used to collect lightweight buggy wheels for model aircraft, and yes .... she was mortified! Now I sneak off to the tip and rummage through their "technical" department - talk about treasures!

You'll need a very long sunny day to do that lot! How many melts will it take ? Of course we'll look forward to seeing the results.

How long could I leave a Co2 sand mould sitting without it deteriorating?

I have some that have lasted six months, keep them warm and dry.

I'll need two melts as one will be LM13 and the other CC601. I may need two CC601 melts yet, we will see, it's a resonable size pot.

WilDun

16th November 2015, 13:12

I have some that have lasted six months, keep them warm and dry.

That's great, wasn't expecting they could be kept that long!
So it looks like I'll be going with the sodium silicate/co2 method then, as they should be fairly transportable and it means I can have them prepared the night before and not have to rush things, especially if I'm going to do the melting elswhere.

Now I have to get something unique designed, I'm hoping to be working on some of my dreams from the past which I never really did get sorted! - hope that idea doesn't just become a dream as well!

Flettner

17th November 2015, 17:42

Drama, furness caught fire, on the out side, now I remember that I was going to change the plastic fuel feed pipe for a steel one. last time I used the furnace I had fuel line fire problems, with ethanol burning clear it can get a little out of hand before you get to see there is in fact a fire going on. This time the pipe actualy melted! CHANGE THE FUEL PIPE.
Anyway three out of four cylinders cast, one the side fell off the mould and the metal ran out. Can not have glued it together properly? I'm waiting for the molds to cool (having a beer) then I'll post pictures.

Flettner

17th November 2015, 18:45

Success, three sound cylinders in LM13. One is the cylinder destined to run on the reverse cylinder EFI 360 engine. The other two are FOS type, 100cc, Potential for 58 HP @ 17100 rpm ?? Variable port height, both transfer and exhaust, we will see.

TZ350

17th November 2015, 19:18

100cc .... I want one, pick me, pick me, please pick me.:woohoo: 17K Plus rpm, whow what a Bucket race engine that would be.

F5 Dave

17th November 2015, 19:43

Astounding Neil.

tjbw

17th November 2015, 22:07

Applause!

Very well done flettner. :D

Flettner

18th November 2015, 20:25

WilDun

18th November 2015, 21:43

A little bit of machining to clean the castings up. Enough left on the surfaces to finish machine after heat treatment plus a few o ring grooves to be installed. Also a small gear rack to be cut on the side of the cylinder (the lump cast in above one of the exhausts).

All excellent stuff - great pics! where do you get the energy? - all the little mysteries are beginning to become more apparent now, eg the little bar running up the side of the cylinder - I couldn't figure that out! (too scared to ask).
Well (I think) I can see that the FOS probably isn't a Ryger clone or a development of one.
I guess two heads (not cylinder heads) are better than one, so I'm guessing that the F.O. input is still very much there as well! :msn-wink: - anyway, great pics!
Keep up the foundry lessons and we will all learn something!

Flettner

19th November 2015, 07:57

All excellent stuff - great pics! where do you get the energy? - all the little mysteries are beginning to become more apparent now, eg the little bar running up the side of the cylinder - I couldn't figure that out! (too scared to ask).
Well (I think) I can see that the FOS probably isn't a Ryger clone or a development of one.
I guess two heads (not cylinder heads) are better than one, so I'm guessing that the F.O. input is still very much there as well! :msn-wink: - anyway, great pics!
Keep up the foundry lessons and we will all learn something!

The Zurg cylinder is more a Ryger development project but I've decided to work on more known tech at the moment. I understand the FOS so thought I would proceed with that at the moment. Although opposite to what Frits says I'm complicating it somewhat by moving the cylinder up and down on the fly (the rack and pinoin). There will be a stator machined into the bottom of the transfers (X6, a bit like a spline) where by as the cylinder moves the base of the transfers will stay fixed in relation to BDC, so the transfers will be nozzeled as the port heights reduce to try and keep gas speed up into the cylinder to keep the central plume intact.
In the mean time I've had more thoughts on the Ryger and have come to the conclusion that the FOS might make a real nice base for a Ryger test cylinder. A modified version with the same exhausts but different transfers and a tight crank case pump. The Ryger uses the tight crank case pump AND open straight though ports. The transfer ports are double action both piston ported to this tight crank case (short piston), at TDC AND straight through at BDC. There is a reed in the transfers but it's also a diversion valve. Will shut off either straight in port or transfer port depending on the pressure it "sees". Sprung to shut the crank case transfers normaly, as the transfers open the high pressure port wins and out shoots a charge but not much volume, as pressure drops the reed will shut and the chamber will start its normal action with some help (augmentation) from the initial high pressure shot, now drawing straight from the carb. This system automaticly adjust for cylinder pressure, so blow down is no longer a problem. The 30mm carb "sees" draw at both top and bottom stroke, double time, with the piston porting setting up a sharp induction wave to help (this could be set to be most efficent at perhaps the time between 13500 to about 15500 when the chamber is out of phase?). As the engine increases in speed (chamber and exhaust outlet are the same size as normal) the pressure inside must increase so I would imagine the wave action would become more savage (energetic) and work much harder than normal, above normal speeds.
In the Ryger type cylinder I have on the bench (pattern) it will not move up and down as it won't need to. It's got three carbs, six transfers, and six reed petals, and a special crank (not see here yet). I'm not so sure about the beem crank now although it might be good for lower speed testing?

WilDun

19th November 2015, 11:07

Although opposite to what Frits says I'm complicating it somewhat by moving the cylinder up and down on the fly (the rack and pinoin).

Just joined the thread again so haven't read it all carefully as yet, but seeing as you are going to have a moving cylinder using a rack and pinion which will no doubt be driven by a stepper motor, is a rack and pinion suitable? - Why not a screw, which isn't as high geared and more able to cope with forces involved ? - I guess the cylinder will possibly only be moving 2mm at most.
I'm guessing (hoping even) that the cylinder will somehow be able to move independently to the head, otherwise the compression ratio will be altered as well and of course, your little rack/pinion/stepper will become highly stressed indeed, being subjected to compression forces as well!

As always you need to be gentle with your reply - I'm a very sensitive soul and not capable of handling scorn! :rolleyes:

Flettner

19th November 2015, 11:13

Just joined the thread again so haven't read it all carefully as yet, but seeing as you are going to have a moving cylinder using a rack and pinion and no doubt being driven by a stepper motor, is a rack necessary? why not a screw which isn't as high geared? ie. seeing that the cylinder will be possibly only moving 2mm at most.
I'm guessing (and I mean only guessing) that the cylinder will be moving independently to the head otherwise compression will be altered as well and of course your little rack/pinion/stepper will become highly stressed indeed!

As always you need to be gentle with your reply - I'm a very sensitive soul and not able to handle scorn! :rolleyes:

Yes you are right, perhaps a screw will do. I did think I was changing hight of the cylinder as much as 9 / 10mm.
Yes the head is bolted to the outside water jacket so the combustion loads are between the head / water jacket and the crank case, cylinder free to move indepedently. Hey who knows, lets have a hack at it and see.
Besides, having a gear hobb says I want gears!

Flettner

19th November 2015, 11:30

[QUOTE=WilDun;1130922326) where do you get the energy? [/QUOTE]

See what no TV can do for your life!

WilDun

19th November 2015, 13:16

Yes you are right, perhaps a screw will do. Hey who knows, lets have a hack at it and see.
Besides, having a gear hobb says I want gears!

Yeah, suck it and see! but I was really just thinking out loud, however I sure didn't think the cylinder would be moving that far!

I must have missed out somewhere in keeping up with info on the Ryger, perhaps I didn't keep on digging enough, so it's still a bit of an enigma to me.
I do have a few thoughts on it's general arrangement but that's as far as I've got, doubt if I'll ever try to produce one! - still, very interesting.

Will still try to persevere with my foundry work though and who knows what will happen - keep going and I'll try to keep learning!

Seldom watch TV (I just go to sleep instead!) and not watching it still doesn't do anything for my energy levels!

Frits Overmars

19th November 2015, 15:52

as you are going to have a moving cylinder using a rack and pinion which will no doubt be driven by a stepper motor, is a rack and pinion suitable? - Why not a screw, which isn't as high geared and more able to cope with forces involved With a rack and pinion driven by a stepper motor, the motor must constantly be powered in order to keep the cylinder in position.
A screw, i.e. a worm wheel drive, is self-locking, so the forces acting upon the cylinder will not act upon the stepper motor, so the motor can rest now and then.

See what no TV can do for your life!TV is an invention of the devil; Facebook is even worse. And what about forums ?:devil2:

Flettner

19th November 2015, 16:48

WilDun

19th November 2015, 19:03

Yes, Ha Ha, the forums are my new TV.

I have a completely frozen neck and spine, (steel rods and screws etc.) and I do a lot of sleeping in front of the computer, often for an hour at a time) because the main thing which wakes people up if sleeping upright is the head flopping over - mine doesn't do that and I could actually sit there asleep for hours! (even when on the forum!) :zzzz: - then I wake up suddenly and continue my quest to improve the Ryger, which is hard to do when you haven't found how it actually works as yet! :rolleyes:

Flettner

19th November 2015, 20:13

It's all go here now, another cast again tonight this time CC601. Five water jackets and three crank cases, run out of metal for the last ones:shit: Never mind there will be another day to cast. No external fire this time, steel fuel line to the furnace now, all went well, having a beer and will open them up later. Got some phone video this time also.

https://youtu.be/kx_1auvMyCw

WilDun

20th November 2015, 07:39

With a rack and pinion driven by a stepper motor, the motor must constantly be powered in order to keep the cylinder in position.
A screw, i.e. a worm wheel drive, is self-locking, so the forces acting upon the cylinder will not act upon the stepper motor, so the motor can rest now and then.

Frits, - guess you're talking about a stepper driving a wormwheel with a pinion on the output shaft which engages with the rack, this should make everyone happy and give Flettner a chance to use his hobbing machine as well = a happy compromise for everyone!
Or......how about just a plain leadscrew, somehow attached to a stepper?

WilDun

20th November 2015, 08:40

It's all go here now, having a beer and will open them up later.

You sure don't piss around Neil! - Well earned beer! :niceone:

Off to Sydney for a few days to see my son who lives there - looking forward to seeing some more pics of the progress in the foundry department when I get back! :yes:

ken seeber

20th November 2015, 10:26

You sure don't piss around Neil! - Well earned beer! :niceone:

Off to Sydney for a few days to see my son who lives there - looking forward to seeing some more pics of the progress in the foundry department when I get back! :yes:

Willy, don't forget to drop in to Perth on your way back. We'll give you a beer and a guided tour on how it's done in Way Ahead :laugh:

Flettner

20th November 2015, 10:47

The metal parts ready for fettling and then off to heat treatment. I'll have to do another pour next week to finish off all the parts needed.

tjbw

20th November 2015, 10:52

You sure don't piss around Neil! - Well earned beer! :niceone:

Off to Sydney for a few days to see my son who lives there - looking forward to seeing some more pics of the progress in the foundry department when I get back! :yes:

Yes, brilliant job on the castings

Cheers, prost, campi

WilDun

20th November 2015, 12:24

Willy, don't forget to drop in to Perth on your way back. We'll give you a beer and a guided tour on how it's done in Way Ahead :laugh:

Thanks Ken, I'd be keen to drop in and who knows ... one day maybe.
A few years ago when another son was on his big OE, he got a temp job delivering phone books in Aus and when he had done Melbourne and Adelaide etc he and his mate drove across the Nullarbor in a truck going through different towns etc to Perth and finally ending up at Port Headland!
He then had to drive all the way back (collecting a roo and a couple of cows on the way back), much to the delight of the locals - they arrived in a ute with a couple of chainsaws on board and made short work of them! full freezers for months!
He did warn me to give driving across the Nullarbor a miss though!

Got an old schoolmate who lives in Perth too - haven't seen him for well over 50 years - he says it's the nicest place on earth (must be the "Way Ahead").

WilDun

20th November 2015, 12:27

The metal parts ready for fettling and then off to heat treatment. I'll have to do another pour next week to finish off all the parts needed.

All looking good and probably looking even better soon.

BTW, Looks like some of those 'feeders' have gone down quite a lot, proves that there's definitely a need for them. I think I went wrong there and got voids in the casting by not realizing in the first place just how important they are - that coupled with not leaving the melt long enough to heat up to the right temperature! ....... lesson learnt .... next time.

But not this weekend - Off to OZ in the morning.

Michael Moore

21st November 2015, 11:28

Flettner

22nd November 2015, 20:28

Neil, you mentioned using LM13 for the recent cylinder castings and CC601 for crankcases. That appears to be our 336 and A356 (UK LM25) alloys, respectively. Are you using the LM13 because of the lower coefficient of temperature expansion? Does it cast and machine about the same as the A356/LM25?

thanks,
Michael

Yes LM13 for cylinders, low coefficient of expansion and real nice to plate to. CC601 for everything else, strong (when heat treated), machines well (LM13 for example is much harder on tooling with the high silicon content). CC601 in T6 (heat treated) state machines very well. I would make air cooled heads from CC601 for example.

Michael Moore

23rd November 2015, 03:49

Thanks for the confirmation.

Yesterday my friend Jeff and I cast 3 Kawasaki triple heads in A356. Two came out looking pretty nice, and the third will have some defects trimmed off when narrowed to be the middle head and then need just a spot or two of TIG on some fin edges. We were chuffed to have made some "real" parts. Jeff put a lot of work into the pattern and match boards and the molds were ChemBond NaSiO3 catalyzed sand with a ceramic/graphite foam filter at the base of the sprue.

This was the first time we'd used the A356 for a part instead of mystery scrap for artwork. The pours were kind of hot as we weren't sure how much the temperature would keep rising in the metal once the crucible was pulled from the furnace, and it went up more than we expected. We also tried an argon lance but results from that are not conclusive. We need to do a couple of heads without gassing so we can compare the two sets.

I should have some photos in a day or two. Now I need to find more definite times for the T6 heat treat cycle, 6-12 hours for the solution part is a pretty wide band.

cheers,
Michael

Michael Moore

23rd November 2015, 18:30

A few photos of the patterns/flasks/molds/parts.

Michael Moore

23rd November 2015, 18:31

A few more.

husaberg

23rd November 2015, 18:35

A few more.

Never trust an engineer without a Beard...........:msn-wink:

Flettner

23rd November 2015, 18:50

A few more.

May I comment?

Michael Moore

24th November 2015, 04:16

Flettner

24th November 2015, 07:29

Neil, I'm hoping you will. We want all the "it would work better doing it this way" comments we can get since we have very limited experience. We'd rather leverage other people's experience which is why it has taken a year of studying to get to this point.

The one that wasn't so nice may be due to Jeff putting a bead of paste across one gate. It wasn't sealed off but it was choked. You can see the groove on the gate in the one photo. The other photo shows a bit of variance on the surface of the fin which is actually quite smooth on the pattern. The others don't have that, and the surface isn't quite as nice. Could that be a "too hot" issue?

cheers,
Michael

Hey, we are all learning. Two things, those molds look far too nice I'm a bit ashamed of mine now. Second, I imagine that the runners should fill the head along the fins not across as you have done (heads at 90 degrees to what they are now). I think I remember my 350 heads I cast were run that way, along the fins. Finish is a funtion of sand surface, you might have damaged the surface slightly taking the pattern out or perhaps the sand mix was not quite as good in that spot?
The short run in the last head, temp dropped too much by that time? I dose look like a cold short. Do you use magnesium powder on the risers after pouring?

Michael Moore

24th November 2015, 10:58

It is hard to tell but I think my Webco CT-1 head was gated from the ends (at the base, not the end at the tips) of the fins. Since Jeff has his patterns screwed to the match boards we'd already discussed rotating things 90 degrees to feed from the ends of the fins the next time we try pour some heads.

We didn't have any exothermic or insulating devices. Chastain's book talks about making plaster risers/sprues to help insulate the metal there from the sand and we will probably try making some of those. I've seen that even putting an insulating board on top of the sprue/riser can be a help in reducing radiated heat loss, maybe a piece of sheetrock would work for that, and I've got some scraps on hand to try.

There are jacking screws at the four corners of the flasks which made it much easier to pull the patterns. But I don't think Jeff was fully withdrawing the pattern with them, just bringing it up an inch or so and then lifting it off, so he may have scraped a little on one of them. I think some alignment pins in conjunction with the jacking screws would be a good thing to have.

The ChemBond mixes very easily with the sand. You mix the catalyst with the sand first then add the binder and mix some more. It doesn't start to set right away and the sand is free-flowing. It gives a much more even cure than the CO2/NaSiO2 we tried, and eliminates keeping another gas cylinder around.

What have you found is a good minimum thickness on a hard sand mold? 1" or closer to 2"? It would be nice to not use more sand than is really needed.

thanks for the comments,
Michael

Michael Moore

24th November 2015, 17:17

I just finished making 120" of cylinder head fin stock for my Yamaha 175cc race head pattern.

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/metalwork/foundry/FinStock_9868.jpg

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/metalwork/foundry/FinStock_9873.jpg

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/metalwork/foundry/FinStock_9875.jpg

The draft angle is 1.4 degrees per side. It was taking 2:30 minutes per side of machining time X two sides per 8 pieces and about 2 minutes to swap a part out or flip it over and reinstall it. I could have eliminated nearly 1 minute per side if I'd put my bowl router bit in instead of the ball end mill, as the face mill needed to take a second pass about .15" wide. The flat center of the router bit would have taken care of that, and also saved me the minute per side of sanding needed to knock down the small cusp between the two tools. I'll modify the code to use that router bit and then it will be ready to go the next time.

I'm already hating fine sawdust. Even with the shop vac held right next to the tool I could still see plenty of sawdust floating around (and bigger dust sitting on the mill).

Once I got going it went pretty quick and I know what to do the next time.

cheers,
Michael

Flettner

24th November 2015, 20:08

Thank you, I'm interested in your head pattern construction method. I was thinking of somthing similar to build an air cooled cylinder (for my F9 Kawasaki) . My air cooled heads have only been copy cast from originals with the combustion space filled up.
By the way your head castings look great, get them heat treated and they will machine real nice.
The finish on my copy cast heads are certainly no better than your castings, you've done a good job.

ken seeber

24th November 2015, 23:55

MM,
Gotta agree with Fletto...great patterns and that I see a cold shut. Either from pouring too slow, temps too low or less than ideal ingate flow direction.
We measure melt temp with an immersed ceramic sheath with a Type K thermocouple down the inside. This then going to a temp controller. All cheap stuff really. I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them.
As to heat treatment, we go for 8 hours for both the solution phase and another during the aging. As this is for pistons that are relatively light and with thin section, I do wonder if we could reduce the durations. Something to follow up. I guess one gets to a stage if it works, then don't stuff it up especially given that any possible gains from changes might easily be outweighed by the loss of a batch or part failure in the field.

Michael Moore

25th November 2015, 04:56

Jeff put a lot of work into those head patterns. But then neither of us is a woodworker so we're having to learn to deal with wood along with everything else.

There's some photos in

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/metalwork/foundry/

that show Jeff's CAD model and the fins being done before gluing them together into the head.

The Webco head seems to have been designed to be easy to make the pattern. There is pretty much a flat surface at the base of all of the fins, with just a lump in the middle for the spark plug. The stud nut seats are lightly countersunk into that surface. That plane is raised enough to allow some finning on the underside. My OEM Yamaha MX175 head has that plane near the gasket surface and so needs bosses for all the studs as well as a much bigger lump for the outside of the chamber and the plug. Jeff's head is more along those OEM lines.

We've got immersible t-couples and have been using them in the melt. I think that one head was mostly due to the gate being choked by the paste. If anything they were all poured a bit hot.

Jeff needs to make Kawa F3 cylinders that don't break the base flange off. They have cast-in supports between the fins and he realized that could be done by drilling through the hardened sand after pulling the pattern. We were having a hard time figuring out how to pattern that until he saw that it didn't need to be part of the pattern.

cheers,
Michael

Flettner

25th November 2015, 19:55

Thanks Michael, I'm in contact with Jeff now. It would be good to post the F3 cylinder build project on here,:niceone:

AndreasL

27th November 2015, 03:15

This is very impressive work done by you all!

"Simple" but still so much of a success is in the details. Like a 2 stroke more or less. ;)

Tempting, but glad I haven't tried myself.
Many hours of hard work behind a finished part.

Keep posting! It's very interesting to follow your progress.

husaberg

27th November 2015, 16:19

Jeff put a lot of work into those head patterns. But then neither of us is a woodworker so we're having to learn to deal with wood along with everything else.

There's some photos in

that show Jeff's CAD model and the fins being done before gluing them together into the head.

Michael

Michael your friend Jeff, is this him here?http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/ I have linked some of his work before.

Michael Moore

27th November 2015, 16:31

Yes, that's Jeff's website.

Flettner

28th November 2015, 10:35

Quick trip up to Heat Treatments thismorning to pick up the cast parts, all ready to machine now in T6 state. Ken I'll get your parts in the post Monday.
The different colours? Some parts are LM13 some CC601 and some LM25.
If the weather plays ball I'll have another cast tomorrow. Nearly out of CC601 I see, didn't realise I'd cast that many parts.

Yow Ling

1st December 2015, 20:13

There is foundry work in here, the gentleman who produced all this work died last week. His work is pretty amazing, engines models and wimsical things http://birkpetersens.blogspot.co.nz

Flettner

1st December 2015, 20:25

Bastardized FOS water jacket. 120 degrees each, fixture in the dividing head.

speedpro

1st December 2015, 21:27

So many places for water to leak from. Well it would if I was making it.

Flettner

2nd December 2015, 20:13

So many places for water to leak from. Well it would if I was making it.

Nothing a tube of silicon wouldn't fix:yes:

speedpro

2nd December 2015, 21:09

Worked on my FZR twin to keep the oil in

Flettner

8th December 2015, 18:45

FOS cylinder fits the water jacket now, 8mm cylinder movement. I guess machine some exhaust ports next (x3).

ken seeber

9th December 2015, 20:17

Jeez, just imagine a carburetted 2 stroke being able to 2 stroke at idle.

I call it FLOS........FLettner Optimised Scavenging :laugh:

polinizei

11th December 2015, 09:48

Final printing job's took about 6 days.

ken seeber

11th December 2015, 16:48

Polinizei,

These are just beautiful. Clearly you have put a lot of thought into the design, particularly with part lines and the changeable inserts for the exh and transfer passages giving you the capability to make easy and accurate alterations. I have a couple of questions:
1. Did you use any support structure for the printing?
2. The finish is superb for an FDM. What Z increments did you use and is it PLA or ABS? I think you might have told us before...sorry
3. Not exactly sure what the little black pieces are for, these are on the inside of one of the transfer boxes

Really great. Please keep us posted on the rest of the core boxes for the outside. Thanks a lot. :niceone:

polinizei

12th December 2015, 23:32

I use Z-Ultrat filament.
Resolution 0.09 for the ducts and 0.14 for the other prints.
Support is standard 20°.
Placement of the print is importend, to reduce support material an get smooth surface. In this case I did a lot of testprints...
The two little black parts are for centering and parts of the big core boxes. They are removible for easy adjustems in case of printing tolerances and machining the core box bore withe a lathe.

Flettner

13th December 2015, 09:26

Production run of cases to suit the YZF 250 frame. Destined for several different cylinders to test. Seen here the bastardized FOS with vairiable port timing, 8mm cylinder movement.

Flettner

13th December 2015, 19:11

100cc FOS looking down one of the exhaust ports, open and then shut 8mm (low speed running). Still need orings to seal off exhausts and also from crank case to water cavity.

husaberg

13th December 2015, 19:38

100cc FOS looking down one of the exhaust ports, open and then shut 8mm (low speed running). Still need orings to seal off exhausts and also from crank case to water cavity.

You make a good case for the design.......................;)

TZ350

13th December 2015, 21:36

100cc FOS looking down one of the exhaust ports, open and then shut 8mm (low speed running).

Very clever and very, very interesting, FOS100.

317925

jhenise

14th December 2015, 07:43

Howdy all, I have been following all of Neil's amazing work on here for about a year. We finally got to talking and he asked me to post some photos of my pattern making and sand casting work on here. Michael Moore posted photos of patterns I made for making air cooled heads on this thread a few pages back.

We don't call them buckets here in the USA, but I build and race what qualify as bucket racers here in California.
The machine I currently race and develop is a rotary valve 175, based on the Kawasaki F3 and F7, that I call the "F37" you can read about it here:

http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/the-highwayman-f37-a-fully-custom-purpose-build-vintage-road-racer/

As it turns out the cylinders undergo catastrophic failure after a few weekends due to a much to weak mounting flange.

http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1-FAILED-F37-CYLINDER-sm.jpg

So i have decided to solve the problem with a new casting, and while i am at it, I will improve the transfer passages and go to a nikasil bore...

I have started the pattern making process for the mew jug that need to be on a running engine by March to race!

Viny casting of the old ports for reference...
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/2-VINYL-CASTING-FOR-OLD-PORT-SHAPES-sm.jpg

I love CNC "paper tooling" I use it as templates to make many many things in my shop....
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/3-PAPER-TOOLING-AND-Al-FIXTURE-sm.jpg

Here is how "paper tooling" models the old cylinder ports and deck...
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/4-PAPER-TOOLING-ON-OLD-CYLINDER-FOR-REFERENCE-sm.jpg

Here is how paper tooling show where the improved ports need to be...
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/5-PAPER-TOOLING-ON-FIXTURE-sm.jpg
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/6-PAPER-TOOLING-ON-FIXTURE-sm.jpg

The new ports are made with clay, just like in grade school art class!
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/8-ROUGHING-OUT-PORT-SHAPE-sm.jpg

Comparing new streamline transfer passages to the old...
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/9-NEW-VS-OLD-PORTS-sm.jpg

Smoothing out the inner wall...
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/10-FINISHING-INNER-PORT-RADIUS-sm.jpg

Finished port patterns...
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/11-FINISHED-TRANSFER-PORT-PATTERNS-sm.jpg
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/12-FINISHED-TRANSFER-PORT-PATTERNS-sm.jpg

Now I am molding the ports in silicone so i can cast hard copies in urethane that will be used in the next steps of the pattern making process...
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/13-PREP-FOR-SILICONE-MOLDING-OF-TRANSFER-PORTS-sm.jpg
http://www.highwaymanbikes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/14-SILICONE-MOLDING-OF-TRANSFERS-sm.jpg

more to come...

Muciek

14th December 2015, 09:44

Great project!! I certainly will for wait for update. I see This cylinder does have wide stud pattern wouldn't it be better to make 5 ports instead of 3? Since You want to cast it You can add them without welding and tons of grinding. I know it will be more work but results (power and powerband length) should be way better, and all the info about ports it's here and in ESE thread and there are alot of friendly people who can help with port sizes and angles.

jhenise

14th December 2015, 09:57

I did think about going 5-port for sure. But I didn't want to make another set of cases with the correct windows, and mainly wanted to test an idea: How much are streamlined transfer passages worth compared to old-school parallel iron-liner walled passages? So I decided to leave the cases unchanged, the port windows unchanged and simply modify the transfer port flow path.

this probably wont be my last cylinder :) so fancier porting may be in the future for sure!

speedpro

14th December 2015, 11:48

Interesting.

Why haven't you simply put long studs right through the cylinder fins and the head with a "torque plate/girdle" on top to hold the whole package together? That would completely remove the forces on those little tangs that snap off the base.

jhenise

14th December 2015, 13:33

"Why haven't you simply put long studs right through the cylinder fins and the head with a "torque plate/girdle" on top to hold the whole package together? That would completely remove the forces on those little tangs that snap off the base."

That was going to be the next move, but I have built a foundry and am more excited to learn how to cast a cylinder. :)
The new cast cylinder will mount with through clamping studs...

Flettner

14th December 2015, 13:53

No, good on you, if you can make a new one why not? Much better to be able to fix all the mistakes (Kawasaki installed) and you don't go wreaking any more old rare Kawasaki cylinders. Also it won't end up looking like it fell out from under the washing machine, a patch up. Thank you for posting this cylinder make.

Flettner

14th December 2015, 18:20

Another side project. 30.5mm piston x 5mm stroke, no ports. Piston has been machined and spark eroded (inside) from a soild piece of Diesel truck piston (Neil Lickfold will know, 20ish % silicon). Made the ring today out of 4140 and will get it nitrided, sleeve is just a piece of cast iron. Piston gudgin pin is not machined yet.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/DSCF5112_zpsd53e47b5.jpg

F5 Dave

14th December 2015, 18:55

V8 F5 bike?

Flettner

14th December 2015, 19:19

V8 F5 bike?

No, but it is a horizontally opposed twin (100cc), an HCCI test engine.

Lightbulb

14th December 2015, 20:47

Great work there Flettner.
That is Mahle 138 recycled from Mercedes diesel truck engines.
Great material for sure.
Neil L

tjbw

14th December 2015, 22:21

F5 Dave

15th December 2015, 06:15

No its still 5mm but relative to the barrel there's another 10mm and relative to the sun there's another 5. Finally I'm starting to understand.

Or I've just woken up a bit groggy.

Cheesy

23rd December 2015, 10:01

This stuff might be interesting to try for your baby pistons, Osprey controlled expansion
http://smt.sandvik.com/en/products/ce-alloys/product-properties/

I think this one was CE17, was a while ago

http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx224/tododgy/arc_seal_zpszpzh8cxy.jpg

Flettner

23rd December 2015, 19:54

A bit side tracked (and fascinated with) HCCI. Soooo, what happens next?
Yes, needs an idler pully (or two on the move for timing adjustment while running)
Assuming it runs:wait:
Can it be throttled? Or will it run with open inlet and fuel adjustment only (like a diesel)? Squirt more fuel, make more power??

TZ350

23rd December 2015, 19:58

.

This is really really really interesting ...... :woohoo:

mr bucketracer

23rd December 2015, 20:47

something i always wanted to do, oh well i better watch and learn

husaberg

23rd December 2015, 20:49

something i always wanted to do, oh well i better watch and learn

I have always wanted to cleve up Yamahas as well.

speedpro

24th December 2015, 06:30

I myself was thinking of throwing together a HCCI engine only last week.

Flettner

24th December 2015, 07:29

Ocean1

24th December 2015, 08:22

Compression goes from about 14 to 1 then the little piston quickly makes it 21 to 1, fuel air MUST go off ??.
By rights it should be able to be controlled by fuel only, I think.

Less fuel = less compression. That's going to affect timing. Enough to be a problem?

Moooools

24th December 2015, 09:43

Less fuel = less compression. That's going to affect timing. Enough to be a problem?

Assuming the fuel is a nice incompressible puddle, and hence looking at the effective compression ratio of the air alone:

At 14.7:1 AFR and 21:1 CR the effective CR of the air is 21.047:1

At 20:1 AFR (lean) and 21:1 CR the effective CR of the air is 21.034:1

As a note, with no fuel the effective CR of the air is 21:1.

Make of that what you will.

Ocean1

24th December 2015, 10:53

Assuming the fuel is a nice incompressible puddle, and hence looking at the effective compression ratio of the air alone:

At 14.7:1 AFR and 21:1 CR the effective CR of the air is 21.047:1

At 20:1 AFR (lean) and 21:1 CR the effective CR of the air is 21.034:1

As a note, with no fuel the effective CR of the air is 21:1.

Make of that what you will.

Of course, it's all arriving together. :facepalm: :laugh:
So not very much, and not likely to be a timing issue, but any variation will be in the wrong direction, yes?

husaberg

24th December 2015, 11:53

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278032160_Validation_of_a_Reduced_Chemical_Mechani sm_Coupled_to_CFD_Model_in_a_2-Stroke_HCCI_Engine

speedpro

24th December 2015, 12:23

Flettner

24th December 2015, 19:02

I see in the link Husa' posted that the combustion chamber diagram included a regular squish area. I would have thought it unneccessary, and undesireable, in a HCCI engine. Flettner what's the chamber profile you have gone for? Also, how is the litle piston moved? The way you were describing it earlier you are using a small crank and rod assembly. I would have thought a cam arrangement might have allowed swifter compression with the combustion pressure pushing it back so it follows the cam profile to it's retracted position. With a cam that need not happen while the motor is in it's useful power extraction part of the stroke. A quick change of cam would also allow for easy changes of compression during testing by varying the small piston travel

No, there is no squish.
I hates cams
It's like this, I'd imagined that the engine might run a little like a Diesel, no matter how small the number of fuel molecules there would always be oxygen around it (harmoginized) so as the pressure and temperature rise rapidly (at the right time and you would need a full load of air each cycle to keep things consistent combustion pressure wise) it would "go off", burn. We are not limiting the start of combustion to a small electric fire that has to have the right quantity and quality moving around that spark plug.
My old Diesel truck has no working glow plugs so a small squirt of petrol up it's intake as the starter is operated fires it into life. If the injectors were disconnected it would run until the fuel vapour was gone then stop. It has no timing adjustment as the petrol just lights up when it feels like it yet the truck engine starts and runs without knock of fuss.

Frits Overmars

25th December 2015, 00:33

Little piston in the head ended up at 8mm (originaly going to be 5mm) stroke because the gear ratio dropped to 2 to 1 (not three to one as I originaly intended) so I needed a little more stroke to get a rapid compression rise at TDC ( or at least ten degrees after ish) . Two to one because I had the pullys on the shelf. Compression goes from about 14 to 1 then the little piston quickly makes it 21 to 1, fuel air MUST go off ??. By rights it should be able to be controlled by fuel only, I think.You could nourish it with diesel; nice low octane number; should go off like a dream :rolleyes:.
On a more serious note: if you feed it a homogeneous diesel-air mixture and then provoke HCCI, you might even succeed in making a diesel engine rev.
VW, Audi, BMW and Mercedes will be queuing at your doorstep.