North Auckland Street Skills - NASS

[lizard007]

Thanks for the great course TOTO, and for the loan of your balls. Just a pity that there were cars coming through the course.

[TOTO]

well hazard observation and avoidance introduced into the equation I think made it for a good learning experience. Goes to show that we need to be alert on a bike regardless where we ride - even in a out of the way car park.

[R-Soul]

I apologise if my last post seemed to be complaining, that certainly wasn't my intention. However I feel it's better to provide some feedback rather than just be a disgruntled ex attendee. I appreciate that the mentors who come along to pass on their knowledge and skills do so on a voluntary basis and I'm very grateful for that. It's a big commitment to be there every week. On the 17th I did actually check the thread before I left home, but there was nothing to indicate that anything would be different to the standard times. The others who were also waiting were getting a little impatient as well and someone left before I did. It sounds like last night was better organised, sorry I didn't come along.

Yeh I have moaned before and am also sorry that I could not come. I can only scrape together enough brownie ponts for one pink slip a week, and that was used up on the ride on sunday...

[Squiggles]

You should know better man - its a Suzuki. Snapped the frame.

tbh it was probably already cracked at the headstock :doh:

[BMCruiser]

Sharry I'll be at the carpark. I'd like to join the ride from Westgate but I normally only just make Albany at 7.30 If I can get away from work earlier one evening I'll meet you at Westgate

[R-Soul]

Well I missed my sunday ride on a "suggestion" from She Who Must Be Obeyed, so hopefully I get to go on the NASS this week. Mind you I am going to rugby and doing the coro loop next Easter weekend, and just paid for the ART day next month, so its touch and go...

[TOTO]

well, we shall catch you at the ART then :ride:

[Sharry]

Are you doing the ART in April TOTO?

[TOTO]

Are you doing the ART in April TOTO?

I hope so :)

[Sharry]

Oh goody, I now have someone to ride down with so I don't get lost:)

[Badger8]

wont be riding in the ART this time, hopefully pop down to say howdy tho! :wari:

[hctseng]

Oh goody, I now have someone to ride down with so I don't get lost:)

Are you going to ART Sharry? Is anyone else going?

[hctseng]

Oh goody, I now have someone to ride down with so I don't get lost:)

Are you going to ART Sharry? Is anyone else going?

[p.dath]

Are you going to ART Sharry? Is anyone else going?

I'll be heading along, and I know someone else from the Shore going along as well.

[Sharry]

Can someone who is going tell me what time they will be passing the Autobhan on the southern and I will be there to tag along

[p.dath]

Can someone who is going tell me what time they will be passing the Autobhan on the southern and I will be there to tag along

Toto went to the Autobhan last time (the most expensive place in Auckland to buy Petrol ....). If he does it again you might be able to meet up with him. I'd send him a PM.

[Sharry]

Thanks p.dath, I will catch up with him tomorrow night at NASS and on friday :yes:

[R-Soul]

Toto went to the Autobhan last time (the most expensive place in Auckland to buy Petrol ....). If he does it again you might be able to meet up with him. I'd send him a PM.

I'll be going from north shore too. What time do you leave, and from where?
The burgers at the restaurant at Autobahn are brilliant - the one with all the trimmings... probably teh best I've had anywhere actually.

I am getting hungry just thinking about it now.

[p.dath]

I'll be going from north shore too. What time do you leave, and from where?
The burgers at the restaurant at Autobahn are brilliant - the one with all the trimmings... probably teh best I've had anywhere actually.

I am getting hungry just thinking about it now.

I'm planning on leaving from Cycletreads around 6:30am. Probably be half a dozen others coming. I wont be stopping at the Autobahn, but your free to do what you like.

Last time we fueled up at the Mobil at the second off ramp to Pukekohe, which is less than 10km from the track. There are a lot of food places there to choose from as well.

[TOTO]

Thanks p.dath, I will catch up with him tomorrow night at NASS and on friday :yes:

I usually aim to be at autobahn at 6:30 and leave there at 7 at latest. So the window from 6:30 to 7am is open for people who wanna tag with my honda (will be on time this time). Sharry, its not really hard finding the track since you been there before :innocent:

On another note, i'll be taking my balls to work today and coming straight from there, so will be probably playing at the carpark from 6:30 (on time this week) :D

Catch ya tonight falks :)

[Ironclaw]

yep will be there tonight as well - see you all there!

[Neon]

You might even see me tonight... probably at the carpark though.

[zealchick]

I am moving a small mountain to be there tonight, so just want to confirm you guys will be at Albany carpark? I won't make it in time for Westagte start but should make it to Albany for 7.30 :-)

[retro asian]

I'm probably going straight to the carpark to check out Toto's balls...

Hopefully the fight is on at Bar Africa afterwards?

[R-Soul]

I should be there too - when I can get there.

[Big Dog]

I shan't be making it tonight.
Positively ill for over a week now.
Having concentration issues. Better to not expose you all to my headache and sore joints.

Hopefully I will be all better co come back next week.

[mnkyboy]

Anyone just wanna go for a ride?

No skills training unfortunatly but riding nonetheless.

[TOTO]

ok leaving work now :D

[BMCruiser]

Great session tonight. It's amazing how much you can improve just by repeating the circuit over and over again and focussing on getting it better each time. My slow cornering improved a lot tonight. Thanks team :)

[Aprilia Girl]

Was a good course tonight aye!! Even I got thru it.... didn't get to play with Toto's balls this week - oops did I just say that out loud?? lol I did get to burn my L plate tonight too!! :innocent:

[R-Soul]

d.path where were you?
were you there?

[R-Soul]

PS thanks to Toto and the rest for their efforts.

[TOTO]

It was great seeing peoples progress. Many people started off frightened of the tight turns and were zipping trough quite nice and smooth by the end of it :ride:

Also those of you who took part in the emergency braking excersise did great. By the end of it people were smooth on the brakes, squeezing the tank with their knees and not locking up the rear wheels. Well done to you. With practice those skills will become automatic.

Very nice of Mark to join us and help with theory and practice. Thanks Mark.

[R-Soul]

Two things that make my low speed riding much more controllable (esp on the long wheel base of the 'Storm) are:

- to lean outward on the corners (i.e. in opposite direction to the turn) so that the bike leans further inward and can turn sharper. This is recommended in the book "Total Control"
- to actually pick a spot or mark on the road that I want my front wheel to ride OVER as I exit the turn. When I have a PARTICULAR spot in mind, my brain almost automatically does the calculations backward to take into account my turning circle, and I set myselfup for the corner much better.

[retro asian]

Two things that make my low speed riding much more controllable (esp on the long wheel base of the 'Storm) are:

- to lean outward on the corners (i.e. in opposite direction to the turn) so that the bike leans further inward and can turn sharper. This is recommended in the book "Total Control"
- to actually pick a spot or mark on the road that I want my front wheel to ride OVER as I exit the turn. When I have a PARTICULAR spot in mind, my brain almost automatically does the calculations backward to take into account my turning circle, and I set myselfup for the corner much better.

Agree with that (as I also have a big long wheelbase).
Your second point I guess what you're saying is choose a good line through the corner?
As Mark said several times always look where you want to go, and try not to focus on the tennis balls too much.

Also rear trail braking through the turn helps get more lean into those real tight corners.
I also find myself doing a lot of clutch control through a course like that...

[R-Soul]

Agree with that (as I also have a big long wheelbase).
Your second point I guess what you're saying is choose a good line through the corner?
As Mark said several times always look where you want to go, and try not to focus on the tennis balls too much.

Also rear trail braking through the turn helps get more lean into those real tight corners.
I also find myself doing a lot of clutch control through a course like that...

Its one thing looking generally "where you want to go". But (and this applies to high speed and low speed corners - from the "Twist of the wrist" books) if you actually choose a specific point that you want to ride over or past, such as a mark or dimple, as your reference point (Keith Code calles it a "product" of your corner, because the product of one corner sets your up for what comes after it) it becomes a lot less vague, and the calculations backward along the line gives you a real place to start from.

It also gives you something to focus on beside NOt the tennis balls...
hehe that si kind of like saying "Dont think of a carrot". Who did not think of a carrot just then?

"Dont look at the tennis balls"
"what tennis balls?"
" you mean these tennis balls?"
*homer simpson voice* "DOH"

I guess its kind of like a goal kick in rugby. If you aim generally in the right direction between the posts you are not wrong. But if you narrow teh target to an exact point, then you will be more accurate.

[Clean_up]

any objections to bringing a pillion along one night? I realise slow speed tight stuff will be very tricky with a pillion, but probably wont try those with her on the back...would be awesome for her to listen in to tips anyway, and maybe someone could give some pillioning specific tips? im sure there are others out there pillioning that would like to know if they are doing it right, or how to do it better....on the bike that is ;)

[Sharry]

Heck no, It would be useful for her to see and hear what goes on before getting on a bike and doing it herself. Plus a conversation on pillioning tips would be usefull for all including the pillion.

I won't be there this week as I have a birthday engagement with a friend :)

[hctseng]

For those who missed last week

MJsCnbWLT3U
v86u4bP0z8A
JGgvd3OAYlU

[Neon]

Unfortunately not going to make it this week, will do my best to make the next one though.

[TOTO]

catch yas at the gas station peeps :)

[R-Soul]

I cant make it either - next time..

[Clean_up]

Awesome night everyone. Tats had a great time to, really enjoyed herself, and says she can finally put a picture to the stories I have told her about NASS. She will definately be coming along more often, it was really good to get some pillion tips, and to perform the exercises with her on the back. It helped to build our confidence as a rider and pillion combo, now i know i can do those things with her on the back, and she feels more comfortable knowing what both i and the bike can do better. Catch you all next week.

[p.dath]

Awesome night everyone. Tats had a great time to, really enjoyed herself, and says she can finally put a picture to the stories I have told her about NASS. She will definately be coming along more often, it was really good to get some pillion tips, and to perform the exercises with her on the back. It helped to build our confidence as a rider and pillion combo, now i know i can do those things with her on the back, and she feels more comfortable knowing what both i and the bike can do better. Catch you all next week.

I might bring along my pillion next time if there are going to be some female pillion regulars.

[Sharry]

After talking with a nearly newbie, now it is dark when we ride over to the carpark could we engage the policy of slowing down if the head light behind gets too far away. For those who have not had much experience on open roads, especially in the dark it is not nice to be left without a bike in front to use as a guide on corners.

[p.dath]

After talking with a nearly newbie, now it is dark when we ride over to the carpark could we engage the policy of slowing down if the tail light behind gets too far away. For those who have not had much experience on open roads, especially in the dark it is not nice to be left without a bike in front to use as a guide on corners.

If you slow down because the tail light in front is getting to far away then it will get even further away ...

[Sharry]

Thanks I have corrected it. The headlight behind.

[TOTO]

another option is to pair the really new riders who are in that situation with someone who will stay in front of them and this way the rest of the people can generally do their own pace. I'm happy to volunteer to do that., and stay in front of someone new to riding in the dark, as oposed to having the whole group held up. Opinions ?

[Sharry]

that is another option for sure. I am quite happy to do that also now that I have a good +90 bulb.

[retro asian]

Those with cruisers (there's more of them at NASS these days :Punk: ), I think it's a bit more difficult as factory Cruiser lights aren't the best for night riding.
Adding extra lights +lightbar is a good thing to do, but extremely expensive.

A cheaper option is to buy a brighter than normal light bulb and also to realign your headlight angle.

Anyone who wants help with this, see the guy with the big fat blue bike next Wednesday.

[p.dath]

Toto, how about posting that info on HMCC and Hampton Downs.

[Squiggles]

Toto, how about posting that info on HMCC and Hampton Downs.
Attached, not allowed to come on the trackbike :(

[p.dath]

Attached, not allowed to come on the trackbike :(

FYI, I just had my application declined because I ride a CBR. I thought they might ave been taking the piss, but apparently no sports bikes are allowed to have training ...

Toto, who was the person at the council that sent out the information?

Hey Squiggles, home come you and The Stranger have the same avatar?
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/3507-The-Stranger

[BoristheBiter]

i was going to say maybe they think that riders on sport bikes no how to ride and ones on crusiers don't.
I then relised thats right.:laugh:

[hctseng]

Not allowed any sports bike? I spoke to Steve today and he didnt mention anything like that, hope my application wont be declined : (

By the way, I got my full today so no more curfew for me !!! Many thanks to all of you who have been pulling me aside and giving me advice on riding @ NASS. Couldnt have been easier if I hadn't been coming and having fun with you all : )

[p.dath]

Interesting to note what the top right hand corner of page 2 says:
http://www.hamiltonmcc.org.nz/news.php?id=anytime479e7f9db8f86


All riders catered for
sports - touring - cruisers

Never mind, at least someone else will be able to enjoy it.

[TOTO]

What Squiggless has posted is the same leaflet as I received from the north shore city council lady. name of lady was Lisa Something.

[hctseng]

What Squiggless has posted is the same leaflet as I received from the north shore city council lady. name of lady was Lisa Something.

Have you applied Toto? anyone else going to this or have applied?

[TOTO]

I busy on that day. I got to some of the next ones

[p.dath]

By the way, I got my full today so no more curfew for me !!! Many thanks to all of you who have been pulling me aside and giving me advice on riding @ NASS. Couldnt have been easier if I hadn't been coming and having fun with you all : )

Well done mate!

[TOTO]

Ou haven't seen that. Many Congrats Hayden. Great feeling isnt it :)

When are we going bike shopping :ride:

[p.dath]

I wonder if it might be worthwhile if I bought along some chain lube and kerosene, and demonstrated how to clean and lubricate the chain. Too simple, or do some people think this might be helpful?

[zealchick]

I have applied and been accepted :-) can't wait looking forward to it!!

[zealchick]

Thats a great option that was my first time riding in the dark on un lit roads.... pretty scary

[zealchick]

Lisa Gossage [Lisa.Gossage@northshorecity.govt.nz]

[Squiggles]

FYI, I just had my application declined because a ride a CBR. I thought they might ave been taking the piss, but apparently no sports bikes are allowed to have training ...

Interesting, could take the DR but better to let someone who hasnt had the chance, its aimed a newer riders for sure. You should try day 1 of the superbike school


Hey Squiggles, home come you and The Stranger have the same avatar?
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/3507-The-Stranger

Its Magua (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/629-Magua), the sexy beast that he is :shit:

[p.dath]

Interesting, could take the DR but better to let someone who hasnt had the chance, its aimed a newer riders for sure. You should try day 1 of the superbike school

I wont be parting with $429 just so I can go to Hampton Downs! AMCC only charge $100 for members to go to Pukekohe. It's not worth 4 times the price.

[Squiggles]

It's not worth 4 times the price.

You wont know that till you've tried it ;) Day 2 is even better :yes:

[p.dath]

You wont know that till you've tried it ;) Day 2 is even better :yes:

To get to day two you would have to spend a minimum of $858. That's pretty serious money.

So squiggles, do you consider the SBS to be 4 times better than the AMCC ART day? Did you get 4 times as the value of a single ART day?

Personally I like the idea of getting 4 days training out at Pukekohe more than 1 day at Hampton Downs.

[RUSS]

I wonder if it might be worthwhile if I bought along some chain lube and kerosene, and demonstrated how to clean and lubricate the chain. Too simple, or do some people think this might be helpful?

Fantastic idea, I'll bring along a dirty chain, or you could just pick up my bike and I'll stay at home and watch TV.

[BoristheBiter]

I wont be parting with $429 just so I can go to Hampton Downs! AMCC only charge $100 for members to go to Pukekohe. It's not worth 4 times the price.

I don't know how it is at the art day ( will know on the 18) but Mandy said it is way better at CSS.
But they are 2 completely different track days.
At CSS you get your own track coach who follows you around all day and shows/expalins what you are doing wrong/right.
I get it that some folks out there just can't afford to do things like this but to bag it without doing it is just not right.
for your 429 you get,
track time $199 5x20min.
classroom/track coach/lunch $230.
i think that it is more than worth the cost as it teachers you what you are meant to be doing.
I was surprised at now many expreranced riders said how good it was and how much they had learnt, so with that i would have to say it is well worth the money.

[Squiggles]

So squiggles, do you consider the SBS to be 4 times better than the AMCC ART day?

While i've stood on the sidelines twice, i've never been able to bring myself to spend $100 on an ART day... The difference as i see it would be in what you learn in the classroom and the better feedback you can get on the track. (I say better because all the rider coaches are singing from the same songsheet and its 1 coach per 2 riders), you got there with drills to perform, not just to circulate and "try to get it". I came out with a better knowledge of what i'm subconsciously doing and how i can improve it. Imo the ART days teach you how to twist your wrist and thus ride at higher speeds, but seem pretty hit and miss / "this is how i do it" when it comes to the corners and riding technique.

Value for money? Yep, i'll probably book day 3 for in november

[OutForADuck]

I don't know how it is at the art day ( will know on the 18) but Mandy said it is way better at CSS.
But they are 2 completely different track days.


Boris is right. Although the CSS is an expensive exercise it is a more full on tuition and something that you tend to do once or twice at different levels, it is an almost classroom style of instruction. ART Days are instructor lead track days with a high level of instruction and value, but at a cost that you can afford to keep doing.

ART Days are a really good thing to bring riders up to the standard where a CSS day is going to deliver value and also a really good place to have those lessons re-enforced and practiced over a greater time period. God knows not many of us can get all the lessons settled into our brains and practiced in a weekend and it is even worse if you are starting from scratch rather than a base of good practices.

The formats are completely different, ART Days are not like a classroom, we don’t slow you down and stop you from using brakes or gears for most of the first days laps. The idea is for you to have fun, ride fast in a safe environment AND get some very high quality instruction. CSS is about slowing you down, taking you back to basics so you can build up that solid foundation. It is more intense and probably more one on one (ART days average 3-5 instructors for each group).

Personally I see them as very complimentary and addressing the issues of rider training in different ways. I would encourage you all to stay away from our natural desire to argue that one is better than the other; I can and will argue that the ART Days are fantastic value and offer world class instruction, safety and facilities for people wanting to hone their skills. I will also argue that once you have developed to a certain stage, CSS is a highly rewarding training to get involved in offering good value for money.

Just to cap off we have numerous riders that have done both and everyone I have talked to describe the experience of both in glowing terms.

I have not done the NZ based CSS courses but I have done them overseas and I am an instructor at the ART days. I am very proud of what ART Days are achieving and we have fantastic instructors with exceptional experience and skills to pass on. If the NZ CSS is anywhere near the level of overseas, and I am lead to believe they are, then they also would gain high praise from me.

Its not about who's best or where is the best value; its about improving your riding, enjoyment and smile on the dial at the end of the day.

See you all on the 18th!!!

[BoristheBiter]

Boris is right. Although the CSS is an expensive exercise it is a more full on tuition and something that you tend to do once or twice at different levels, it is an almost classroom style of instruction. ART Days are instructor lead track days with a high level of instruction and value, but at a cost that you can afford to keep doing.

ART Days are a really good thing to bring riders up to the standard where a CSS day is going to deliver value and also a really good place to have those lessons re-enforced and practiced over a greater time period. God knows not many of us can get all the lessons settled into our brains and practiced in a weekend and it is even worse if you are starting from scratch rather than a base of good practices.

The formats are completely different, ART Days are not like a classroom, we don’t slow you down and stop you from using brakes or gears for most of the first days laps. The idea is for you to have fun, ride fast in a safe environment AND get some very high quality instruction. CSS is about slowing you down, taking you back to basics so you can build up that solid foundation. It is more intense and probably more one on one (ART days average 3-5 instructors for each group).

Personally I see them as very complimentary and addressing the issues of rider training in different ways. I would encourage you all to stay away from our natural desire to argue that one is better than the other; I can and will argue that the ART Days are fantastic value and offer world class instruction, safety and facilities for people wanting to hone their skills. I will also argue that once you have developed to a certain stage, CSS is a highly rewarding training to get involved in offering good value for money.

Just to cap off we have numerous riders that have done both and everyone I have talked to describe the experience of both in glowing terms.

I have not done the NZ based CSS courses but I have done them overseas and I am an instructor at the ART days. I am very proud of what ART Days are achieving and we have fantastic instructors with exceptional experience and skills to pass on. If the NZ CSS is anywhere near the level of overseas, and I am lead to believe they are, then they also would gain high praise from me.

Its not about who's best or where is the best value; its about improving your riding, enjoyment and smile on the dial at the end of the day.

See you all on the 18th!!!

you said that so much better than i did, i'm glad you got what i was meaning.

[BMCruiser]

Have you applied Toto? anyone else going to this or have applied?

Well done on your full licence Hayden. Hopefully I can report the same in a few weeks.

I've also applied and been accepted for the Hamptons Downs day. Maybe we can meet up somewhere with any others who want to and cruise down together

[Sly_guy]

By the way, I got my full today so no more curfew for me !!! Many thanks to all of you who have been pulling me aside and giving me advice on riding @ NASS. Couldnt have been easier if I hadn't been coming and having fun with you all : )

Congrats mate, well done :)

You've shown some massive improvement since you started, great to see :)

Now you get to play on some bikes that can be real fun ! :D... (carefully of course !)

[p.dath]

I wont be able to make it along tonight. Need to look after my children.

[R-Soul]

I might be there.

[retro asian]

Another great tip for riding at night/in winter... a clean visor doesn't fog up as bad as a dirty one.

In saying that, I haven't cleaned my visor since doing a 600+ Kms Northland loop 2 weeks ago....:rolleyes: I'm waiting for it to rain...

[p.dath]

Another great tip for riding at night/in winter... a clean visor doesn't fog up as bad as a dirty one.

In saying that, I haven't cleaned my visor since doing a 600+ Kms Northland loop 2 weeks ago....:rolleyes: I'm waiting for it to rain...

I had exactly this issue last week! Noticed I was riding with my visor up all the time because it was clearer. Finally got off my arse and gave it a clean - what a difference.

[R-Soul]

I had exactly this issue last week! Noticed I was riding with my visor up all the time because it was clearer. Finally got off my arse and gave it a clean - what a difference.

To avoid fogging up completely, just get that clear film that sticks to the inside of your visor(around its edges to create a double glazing effect). Then you can wait for rain as long as you want...

[p.dath]

To avoid fogging up completely, just get that clear film that sticks to the inside of your visor(around its edges to create a double glazing effect). Then you can wait for rain as long as you want...

I have a pinlock visor. I don't have issues with fogging up except in extreme cold. My issue was too much bug smear.

[R-Soul]

I have a pinlock visor. I don't have issues with fogging up except in extreme cold. My issue was too much bug smear.

The double glazing works even in extreme cold commuting mid winter mornings

[R-Soul]

Another great tip for riding at night/in winter... a clean visor doesn't fog up as bad as a dirty one.

In saying that, I haven't cleaned my visor since doing a 600+ Kms Northland loop 2 weeks ago....:rolleyes: I'm waiting for it to rain...

The original refernce was to fogging up - so I assumed you had fogging issues?

What a fog up!

[p.dath]

The double glazing works even in extreme cold commuting mid winter mornings

I don't know if your familiar with pinlock visors, but when it comes to misting - it's the best you can get. It effectively is a double glazing system.

[retro asian]

I don't know if your familiar with pinlock visors, but when it comes to misting - it's the best you can get. It effectively is a double glazing system.

I can't afford a pinlock right now, but I'd love to have one for my Shoei.
My visor is currently double glazed with a layer of bug juice....

[R-Soul]

I don't know if your familiar with pinlock visors, but when it comes to misting - it's the best you can get. It effectively is a double glazing system.

Oh Ok- I did not know that - where do you get them?

[p.dath]

Oh Ok- I did not know that - where do you get them?

A "pinlock visor" is a generic term, like "oil filter". Some more expensive helmets come with them, for others it is an accessory. Typically you go to where you got your helmet from, and say you'd like a pinlock visor for it. Some helmets have after market pinlock visors for them.

Sometimes it is a complete replacement visor, and sometimes it is just an attachment that usually locks on with a pin arrangement.

[Maha]

May 1st guys.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/121906-Auckland-City-Compass-protest-ride

[TOTO]

May 1st guys.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/121906-Auckland-City-Compass-protest-ride

thanks Maha, will spread the word. Have sent you a PM

[Morcs]

I gave yas a double toot on the horn as I went past the gassy on the streetfighter :)

[Mike218]

is this still on and happening?!

[p.dath]

is this still on and happening?!

Yes, it is on every Wednesday.

[Sly_guy]

Last week, we talked about going for a longer ride from Westgate, so that some folk who haven't can get a bit more exposure to night riding ?

Anyone any thoughts on this ?

If we were to do this, it would mean we wouldn't be up at the car park till later on (probably 8 - 8:30 ish)

[zealchick]

Last week, we talked about going for a longer ride from Westgate, so that some folk who haven't can get a bit more exposure to night riding ?

Anyone any thoughts on this ?

If we were to do this, it would mean we wouldn't be up at the car park till later on (probably 8 - 8:30 ish)

I'd rather stick to the short ride :-)

[Sly_guy]

I'd rather stick to the short ride :-)

We can always split up in to two groups to accommodate picky people ! :), if needs be :)

[zealchick]

We can always split up in to two groups to accommodate picky people ! :), if needs be :)

means more time practising emergency breaking :-)

[p.dath]

I'd prefer the short ride.

[Sly_guy]

means more time practising emergency breaking :-)

Then that sounds like a plan !!! (not that I'm suggesting that you need the practice... :) )

[hctseng]

Great exercises tonight, I feel like a I have never ridden any bikes before, it really helps practicing with you all. Good to see Richard again and thanks to Philip for showing us how to lube the chain ~ !!!

For those who missed tonight

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2TI5H1Oz4-Y

[p.dath]

I'm a star!

[Ironclaw]

Hey Guys, just want to say I did my full test today and passed! YAY!

Was quite nervous about it, but it ended up being a piece of cake =) Thanks to all of you for making NASS such a great place to learn and have some fun!

Now onto a bigger bike! I'm going to have some fun trying a few :yes:

[p.dath]

Hey Guys, just want to say I did my full test today and passed! YAY!

Was quite nervous about it, but it ended up being a piece of cake =) Thanks to all of you for making NASS such a great place to learn and have some fun!

Now onto a bigger bike! I'm going to have some fun trying a few :yes:

Yehah! Good on you.

[Neon]

Well done mate, have fun test riding! :niceone:

[TOTO]

wohoo, congrats. Great feeling isnt it :clap:

[zealchick]

Hey Guys, just want to say I did my full test today and passed! YAY!

Was quite nervous about it, but it ended up being a piece of cake =) Thanks to all of you for making NASS such a great place to learn and have some fun!

Now onto a bigger bike! I'm going to have some fun trying a few :yes:

Congratulatons thats awesome!!

[hctseng]

Hey Guys, just want to say I did my full test today and passed! YAY!

Was quite nervous about it, but it ended up being a piece of cake =) Thanks to all of you for making NASS such a great place to learn and have some fun!

Now onto a bigger bike! I'm going to have some fun trying a few :yes:

Congrats !!! I purposely went out riding at 10:00pm the day I got my full lol will never forget it !!!

Any bikes in mind you would be test riding?!!

[Sharry]

Congrats dude, So which bike will you be on next week?

[TOTO]

i say let it be a surprise

I like surprises :D

[BMCruiser]

Hey Guys, just want to say I did my full test today and passed! YAY!:

Congratulations !! Well done.

[Itchy_Kiwis]

Hey Guys, just want to say I did my full test today and passed! YAY!

Was quite nervous about it, but it ended up being a piece of cake =) Thanks to all of you for making NASS such a great place to learn and have some fun!

Now onto a bigger bike! I'm going to have some fun trying a few :yes:

Well Done!
now you can stay out as late as you want LOL
i hope you will continue with the NASS training because we all look forward to seeing your new bike

[shah]

good one. looks like we're going to miss your black/orange bandit soon.



Hey Guys, just want to say I did my full test today and passed! YAY!

[zealchick]

Great exercises tonight, I feel like a I have never ridden any bikes before, it really helps practicing with you all. Good to see Richard again and thanks to Philip for showing us how to lube the chain ~ !!!

For those who missed tonight

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2TI5H1Oz4-Y

I missed this demo as i turned up a bit late. Watched it last night went and got myself a bottle of kerosene and a spray bottle and got to work..... went through a heap of rags but man what a difference my chain looks awesome!! and well so does everything else that was a tad greasy. Thanks Phillip :-) Whats this weeks demo on lol

[TOTO]

good on Hayden for taping it too

[p.dath]

I've had someone ask if we can do U-turn practice this Wednesday. So we should be able to setup a series of cones to require a 180 degree turn to the left and to the right.

[R-Soul]

Rmember that you must lean out of the corner.

[p.dath]

Rmember that you must lean out of the corner.

I don't know if you'll be doing much leaning during a U-turn ... it's usually done at quite a low speed.

[R-Soul]

I don't know if you'll be doing much leaning during a U-turn ... it's usually done at quite a low speed.

Exactly!

When you do low speed turning (i.e. ewhen you are NOT countersteering), you want the bike to lean over as much as possible as it allows the bike to turn in a smaller radius. (This advice is from the book "Total control"). By leaning OUT of the corner (i.e. opposite to the way you want to turn) you get the bike to lean further into the corner. Because its at low speed, the operation of the suspension is not an issue. But the bike will have a smaller turning radius.

Also when U- turning, look back over your shoulder at the point you want to turn to.

When you are turning at higher speeds (i.e. above 20km/hr), you are using counter steering and steering away from the side you want to turn to. This is when you lean INTO the corner. This keeps the bike more upright and allows the suspension to operate more efficiently, increasing traction.

PS this is the stuff I have learnt from these books- not just my personal opinion (although I can vouch for the fact that this technique works WELL). Leaning outwardly on the turns, and looking where you want to go, also works for the low speed courses that we were doing a couple of weeks back.

[zealchick]

I missed this demo as i turned up a bit late. Watched it last night went and got myself a bottle of kerosene and a spray bottle and got to work..... went through a heap of rags but man what a difference my chain looks awesome!! and well so does everything else that was a tad greasy. Thanks Phillip :-) Whats this weeks demo on lol

PS I Had george from motorcycles doctors round today and he showed me how to jack the rear tire up a couple of inches with a car jack to make this soooo much easier. There you go thats my little bit of helpful advice :-)

[p.dath]

When you do low speed turning (i.e. ewhen you are NOT countersteering), you want the bike to lean over as much as possible as it allows the bike to turn in a smaller radius. (This advice is from the book "Total control"). By leaning OUT of the corner (i.e. opposite to the way you want to turn) you get the bike to lean further into the corner. Because its at low speed, the operation of the suspension is not an issue. But the bike will have a smaller turning radius.

Clarify what you mean by leaning out. Your leaning the bike to the outside and the rider is leaning ?, or the bike is ? and the rider is ?

[R-Soul]

Clarify what you mean by leaning out. Your leaning the bike to the outside and the rider is leaning ?, or the bike is ? and the rider is ?

For tight low speed turns where you are NOT countersteering, you turn the steering in the direction of the turn (i.e. when you are turning left, you steer left by pulling left bar towards you) and you lean the bike into the turn (i.e. lean it left if you are turning left), while leaning the rider out of the turn (i.e. right if you are turning left) to counterbalance the weight of the bike.


And look behind you at the same time (i.e look over your shoulder to the left if turning left)

Clear?

[R-Soul]

hopefully I can make it there

I have to do a U-turn every day in our parking garage to leave after work. After I read this in the book, I started doing this - and it makes my Uturns MUCH charper and tighter. In fact it makes all my low speed steering much tighter (if I need it to be tighter).

[TOTO]

too much theory hurts my head :thud:

[Neon]

For tight low speed turns where you are NOT countersteering, you turn the steering in the direction of the turn (i.e. when you are turning left, you steer left by pulling left bar towards you) and you lean the bike into the turn (i.e. lean it left if you are turning left), while leaning the rider out of the turn (i.e. right if you are turning left) to counterbalance the weight of the bike.


And look behind you at the same time (i.e look over your shoulder to the left if turning left)

Clear?

A-like so (images from Total Control by Lee Parks - go buy it :yes: )

[p.dath]

For tight low speed turns where you are NOT countersteering, you turn the steering in the direction of the turn (i.e. when you are turning left, you steer left by pulling left bar towards you) and you lean the bike into the turn (i.e. lean it left if you are turning left), while leaning the rider out of the turn (i.e. right if you are turning left) to counterbalance the weight of the bike.


And look behind you at the same time (i.e look over your shoulder to the left if turning left)

Clear?

That sounds very reasonable. I wil try and buy this book.

[fizbin]

might grace you all with my presence this week!
will have to see how it goes and whether i end up shifting someone on a Wednesday night at 2 hrs notice again!

i should really change my profil bike and stuff eh?

[TOTO]

someone get him a GN !

[Ironclaw]

ok, I'll keep it a surprise :shifty: won't be for a few weeks though, I'm going to have some fun test riding :yes:

[R-Soul]

A-like so (images from Total Control by Lee Parks - go buy it :yes: )

Yes its a pretty good book.

[Ironclaw]

too much theory hurts my head :thud:

Neon and/or I can demonstrate on our 250's, we're both not bad at it :scooter:

The reason why you don't lean in is all about balance, because you're going so slow there's no force pushing you sideways like what happens at higher speed cornering so if you did lean you would fall over :yes:

Toto - the 'X' shaped cones that you've set up a few times are really good for this technique, perhaps we set up a few on wednesday?

[retro asian]

A-like so (images from Total Control by Lee Parks - go buy it :yes: )

Great photos.

"Leaning out" is pretty much a must-do with cruisers (as they weren't designed to corner!!)...this was very the first thing I learnt at NASS...before I could even ride confidently.....thanks Richard for showing me that!


You start by shifting your bum off the seat, in the opposite direction of your low speed turn.....later you can try moving your whole body away from the bike.

Having your body lean in the opposite direction also helps you if you stall the bike, as your inside leg is in a good position to save the bike falling.
Someone should demonstrate this too (as it's hard to describe clearly with only text). I'll be taking my missus out on Wednesday as it's her birthday.

[p.dath]

I think I need to practice this new technique (for me) as well! So I think that is settled, U-Turn practice this week.

[R-Soul]

I think I need to practice this new technique (for me) as well! So I think that is settled, U-Turn practice this week.

As I said, you can use the same technique to get around tight corners (on a small course set out like a few weeks back). you just look at the pot you want to exit teh corner instea of back over your shoulder. But you still lean the opposite way - as long as the speed is slow enough.

Once speed builds up and counter steering is required, then you want to lean into the turn. You just have to get used to the speed range when the transition in control technique must occur.

[hctseng]

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[p.dath]

That was a great night last night. Doing U-turns (especially to the right) from a stationary start is one of my worst areas. Got lots of tips. Unfortunately I need one more session to really consolidate everything.

[R-Soul]

That was a great night last night. Doing U-turns (especially to the right) from a stationary start is one of my worst areas. Got lots of tips. Unfortunately I need one more session to really consolidate everything.

Unfortunately I could not make it- we are packing to move house this weekend.

Did you try leaning out and looking over your shoulder? It definitely helped my Uturns..

[p.dath]

Unfortunately I could not make it- we are packing to move house this weekend.

Did you try leaning out and looking over your shoulder? It definitely helped my Uturns..

I tried, but it didn't work well for me. I find I instinctively want to lean in and give it more gas.

I'm going to give it another go though. I've figured out I need to hold my throttle differently when right turning, and I want to try something different with the foot pegs to see if that helps.

[R-Soul]

I tried, but it didn't work well for me. I find I instinctively want to lean in and give it more gas.



Well that would work too- but probably would not be as contrllable or get as ssmall a turning circle.

[p.dath]

Well that would work too- but probably would not be as contrllable or get as ssmall a turning circle.

If I start from a rolling start, I can turn at maximum wheel lock leaning in with a bit of throttle. But I'm terrible from a standing start going immediately to full wheel lock.

[RUSS]

Come and see me Phil if you want a hand, there are a couple of things not mentioned here that are really good for cone work.

[p.dath]

Come and see me Phil if you want a hand, there are a couple of things not mentioned here that are really good for cone work.

Your on! Then I can pass the info on afterwards ...

[R-Soul]

Your on! Then I can pass the info on afterwards ...

yes please- do tell!

[zealchick]

Unfortunately I could not make it- we are packing to move house this weekend.

Did you try leaning out and looking over your shoulder? It definitely helped my Uturns..

It worked well for me it seemed quite natural to sorta slide my butt left:) thanks for the tips

[Beth Stewart]

Hey everyone, I for one am going to practice what I learnt this week because this is when my bike gets the better of me - slow turns. And, Richard, I will keep my hand off the brake. I just want to say THANKS to everyone from KB for all the support and encouragement you have all shown me. It has helped me heaps. Every week I go away with more information to think about and put into action.

[TOTO]

Good on you Beth :)

[R-Soul]

It worked well for me it seemed quite natural to sorta slide my butt left:) thanks for the tips

Glad to hear it! but it is important to lean your torso outwards and away from the centre line of the bike too - makes for much smaller turning circles.

[hctseng]

For those who missed tonight, how to "Push Start" you bike !!!

Many thanks to Matthew !!!

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[R-Soul]

yes thanks Matthew.

I kinda knew the theory about push starting the bike, but I had never tried it (on my current one anyway). It was a useful excercise, because as you say, each bike is different, and it helps to know what kind of effort is required to push start it and which gear.

Now I know that for my bike, I will not even bother trying to push start it at low speeds, and that 2nd gear locks up the back wheel because there's too much compression. This is something that I would not otherwise have even experimented with. These NASS day are great.

[Qkchk]

Dropped on in on the way back home last night from a sortie out south......... great to see Dan taking the reins again with Richard and a excellent turnout!! Seems to be a few familiar faces from times past and a small number of newbies.


Come on guys 'n gals! This is a great opportunity for those with their own bike and fresh licence to explore and learn in a safe environment.
The best thing is its FREE.
These mentors give up their Weds night (they could be watching Coronation Street and curling their hair instead) to give advice and support to people who are interested in learning all things Motorcycle.

Make the effort, you wont regret it!

[Nagash]

These videos are fantastic, all of the learning from my living room. Looks like a lot of fun.

[Sharry]

Excelent stuff Mathew and Richard I walked away able to do two things that I wanted to do and didnt think I could. I can now bump start my bike and turn her around on her side stand :banana:

[Sharry]

Josh, get ya butt out of your lounge and join us :yes:

[hctseng]

Josh, get ya butt out of your lounge and join us :yes:

Confucius says, "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand."

[zealchick]

Come on guys 'n gals! This is a great opportunity for those with their own bike and fresh licence to explore and learn in a safe environment.
The best thing is its FREE.
These mentors give up their Weds night (they could be watching Coronation Street and curling their hair instead) to give advice and support to people who are interested in learning all things Motorcycle. [/SIZE]

Make the effort, you wont regret it![/QUOTE]


Absolutely!! this night is awesome lots of support encouragement and patience. Get your butts there!!

[zealchick]

Excelent stuff Mathew and Richard I walked away able to do two things that I wanted to do and didnt think I could. I can now bump start my bike and turn her around on her side stand :banana:

You go girl! you were sooo not going to let that beat you :-)

[p.dath]

These videos are fantastic, all of the learning from my living room. Looks like a lot of fun.

Perhaps you should try joining us ...

[R-Soul]

These videos are fantastic, all of the learning from my living room. Looks like a lot of fun.

Yes, but until you have actually tried it with your own bike, you just dont know... which gear? How fast?

[Nagash]

Perhaps you should try joining us ...

I would if I could, trust me on that one.



[EDIT] Perhaps I should intoduce myself.. I regularly attented NASS a couple of years ago for about a year and half every wednesday. Unfortunately my bikes still out of action hence why i'm not able to go.

[Sharry]

What would get it back on the road again Josh? Maybe someone can help ya out with something.

[Nagash]

What would get it back on the road again Josh? Maybe someone can help ya out with something.

I appreciate the offer but i'm determined to sort it myself. My bike has been green stickered by the police for minor reasons, it'll get sorted eventually! Never fear, just have other priorities at the moment.

[Big Dog]

In case you forgot, your homework for this week is to find out what your mechanic advises you do for your bike if you find you are suddenly without a battery to put in the loop.

The information I provided was based on what a mechanic told me 18 years ago and may not apply to modern bikes with modern electronics.

[p.dath]

In case you forgot, your homework for this week is to find out what your mechanic advises you do for your bike if you find you are suddenly without a battery to put in the loop.

The information I provided was based on what a mechanic told me 18 years ago and may not apply to modern bikes with modern electronics.

I'm like 99.99% certain that shorting the positive and negative battery terminals together (as in closing the loop) on any bike wont be correct. This will make any alternator or generator act like a brake.
It will create a dead short from the positive distribution block to ground as well, preventing any electronics from working.

Creating a dead short would create the biggest kind of load you can on the alternator/generator - the one thing that you need to be able to start your bike.

Consider this. The alternator/generator is just like a battery - when it is in motion. Would you put a dead short across a battery?

I would definitely run with the option of making sure the positive terminal lead can not possible touch anything else. A lot of bikes have the positive terminal wire running straight into a large fuse (30A on my bike, for example). Removing that fuse would protect the bike from the positive terminal wire accidentally coming into contact with either the chassis or the negative terminal. Failing that, wrap it in some insulation tape, a piece of cloth, anything.

[Big Dog]

I'm like 99.99% certain that shorting the positive and negative battery terminals together (as in closing the loop) on any bike wont be correct. This will make any alternator or generator act like a brake.
It will create a dead short from the positive distribution block to ground as well, preventing any electronics from working.

Creating a dead short would create the biggest kind of load you can on the alternator/generator - the one thing that you need to be able to start your bike.

Consider this. The alternator/generator is just like a battery - when it is in motion. Would you put a dead short across a battery?

I would definitely run with the option of making sure the positive terminal lead can not possible touch anything else. A lot of bikes have the positive terminal wire running straight into a large fuse (30A on my bike, for example). Removing that fuse would protect the bike from the positive terminal wire accidentally coming into contact with either the chassis or the negative terminal. Failing that, wrap it in some insulation tape, a piece of cloth, anything.

Sounds logical. But the homework is to ask a mechanic.

[Nagash]

Plug both ends into a potato and see if the clock will start working!

[R-Soul]

This post is to get the thread current

[thehovel]

Wee bit damp out there........ Theory night I think Make your own way to Bar Africa. I will do the rounds(in the CAR) , Westgate & Carpark to pick up anyone that doesn't read the posts. Regards Richard

[R-Soul]

yeeeeeah I think a night in sounds like good deal ... I am a soft African - not used to rain..

[p.dath]

Wee bit damp out there........ Theory night I think Make your own way to Bar Africa. I will do the rounds(in the CAR) , Westgate & Carpark to pick up anyone that doesn't read the posts. Regards Richard

What time are you thinking?

[Beth Stewart]

Where is Bar Africa? for future wet nights. Cheers

[p.dath]

At the end of William Pickering.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Bar+Africa,+Auckland,+New+Zealand&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=34.176059,62.138672&ie=UTF8&hq=Bar+Africa,&hnear=Auckland,+New+Zealand&ll=-36.75374,174.706993&spn=0.016883,0.030341&z=15

[p.dath]

Have recently learnt about the different kinds of brake fluid, bleeding brakes, and when to change brake fluid I was thinking I could easily do a 10 minute session on this should be need a theory night again.

[TOTO]

its a good idea P. :niceone:

good night on wednesday too

[Beth Stewart]

Hi, been putting in some practice with my U turns. Went out to tackle Burwood Rd for my cornering and it was a breeze. I had been worrying about it for ages. So I did it twice then ended up doing Coatsville/Riverhead Hiway in the daylight and really enjoyed it and handled it well. For me, it is completely different than at night. So pulled into a side street and did my U turns. No preasure, no traffic and all went well. Best ride I have had for a few weeks. Just thought I would share!

[p.dath]

Well done Beth! I need to do more practice myself on full lock turns from a stand still.

[TOTO]

Well done Beth :niceone:

[zealchick]

Good on you Beth! yep night riding is challenging! I did RRRS through BRONZE at Whenuapai today awesome day still got a lot of work to do on my countersteering, finished up there and did Riverhead/coatville Highway, Way better today :-)

[TOTO]

Nice one . Looking forward to your review of the RRRS. Still yet to do it myself. Heard good things about it :)

[p.dath]

Nice one . Looking forward to your review of the RRRS. Still yet to do it myself. Heard good things about it :)

RRRS is way below your level Toto (done it earlier this year myself). You do some low speed skills, effectively cone skills, practice low speed tight turning manouveres, counter steering, and emergency braking. The other half is theory. Cornering, simple physics of motorcycling, a bit of talk about braking, etc.

[retro asian]

What some NASS members did this weekend...

<a href="http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/jammasterjames2/?action=view&current=hamptond11.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/jammasterjames2/hamptond11.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/jammasterjames2/?action=view&current=hamptond08.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/jammasterjames2/hamptond08.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://s73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/jammasterjames2/?action=view&current=hamptond30.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/jammasterjames2/hamptond30.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[p.dath]

Those are good photo's, especially for fast moving objects. You've got some talent!

[Beth Stewart]

Yeah I must agree. I have been trying to take photos of my grandaughter jumping her horses and most of them are missing body parts. Lol

[retro asian]

Thanks. I've got a new camera, which helps a lot with that.

[p.dath]

Thanks. I've got a new camera, which helps a lot with that.

You have me tempted, as the other day I was looking at my camera compared to some others at a birthday party I had taken my children to and was thinking it was lacking compared to "modern" technology. And it's only about 2 or 3 years old as well.

So what sort of camera is it?

[retro asian]

So what sort of camera is it?

It's an "enthusiast level" Canon DSLR, with probably the cheapest zoom lens you can get.

[Sharry]

Well done Beth and zealchick, practising in daylight at your own pase will help the night riding for sure :yes:

TOTO the RRRS will be like going back to kindy for you dude

[MarkH]

Nice one . Looking forward to your review of the RRRS. Still yet to do it myself. Heard good things about it :)

As you go through various exercises there are experienced people watching what you and your bike are doing, often they notice things that you don't realise you are doing. Many useful things are covered which you can think about and try to keep in mind while you are riding.

I kinda agree with Sharry though - you would be familiar with most of what they are teaching. It couldn't hurt to do it, but you may not gain a great deal. If that doesn't put you off than I say go for it! You never know, they may teach you something that may save your life.

[zealchick]

As you go through various exercises there are experienced people watching what you and your bike are doing, often they notice things that you don't realise you are doing. Many useful things are covered which you can think about and try to keep in mind while you are riding.

I kinda agree with Sharry though - you would be familiar with most of what they are teaching. It couldn't hurt to do it, but you may not gain a great deal. If that doesn't put you off than I say go for it! You never know, they may teach you something that may save your life.

I agree its fairly basic but i got heaps out of it, they watch and pick all sorts of fine detail, how i hold my break lever, positioning on my bike, how i hold my foot over rear brake etc oh my god sooo much to remember!! as well as watching every other dickhead on the road :crazy:

[MarkH]

I agree its fairly basic but i got heaps out of it, they watch and pick all sorts of fine detail, how i hold my break lever, positioning on my bike, how i hold my foot over rear brake etc oh my god sooo much to remember!! as well as watching every other dickhead on the road :crazy:

Yeah, sometimes it can be worth making sure that you are doing the basics right. When I did the course I was fairly new to biking (returning after a break of more than 20 years) and I learnt quite a bit on the course as well as learning more later by taking experience and thinking back to what they had told me.

[p.dath]

I agree its fairly basic but i got heaps out of it, they watch and pick all sorts of fine detail, how i hold my break lever, positioning on my bike, how i hold my foot over rear brake etc oh my god sooo much to remember!! as well as watching every other dickhead on the road :crazy:

I have to say, I'm not completely happy with the theory aspect of the course.

For example (since you mention it), they put forward the notion that there is only one way to hold your brake lever (the all fingers on or all fingers off method). There are a number of ways with pros and con's. I don't think the way they teach is wrong - but it isn't necessarily right for all bikes either. Personally (having done the course myself), I choose to use a different grip.
The "all fingers on or off" method came of earlier times when bikes had drum brakes, and you needed to excert considerable force on the brake lever to make it "work". Most bikes have disc brakes now, and two fingers can easily apply enough pressure to lock the front wheel. However a common problem with other grips is people often fail to close the throttle, and hence drive the engine against the brake (an issue you don't tend to have with all fingers on or off the brake). For me personally, I simply engage the clutch under emergency braking. Then even if I fail to close the throttle, the engine can not drive against the brake.
But I digress.

I do sympathise with them. They need to keep the course simple to understand, and teachable within a day.

[BoristheBiter]

I have to say, I'm not completely happy with the theory aspect of the course.

For example (since you mention it), they put forward the notion that there is only one way to hold your brake lever (the all fingers on or all fingers off method). There are a number of ways with pros and con's. I don't think the way they teach is wrong - but it isn't necessarily right for all bikes either. Personally (having done the course myself), I choose to use a different grip.
The "all fingers on or off" method came of earlier times when bikes had drum brakes, and you needed to excert considerable force on the brake lever to make it "work". Most bikes have disc brakes now, and two fingers can easily apply enough pressure to lock the front wheel. However a common problem with other grips is people often fail to close the throttle, and hence drive the engine against the brake (an issue you don't tend to have with all fingers on or off the brake). For me personally, I simply engage the clutch under emergency braking. Then even if I fail to close the throttle, the engine can not drive against the brake.
But I digress.

I do sympathise with them. They need to keep the course simple to understand, and teachable within a day.

Whats this brake thing your talking about? :)
Back to basics is also good for people who have been riding for a while and just pick up bad habits or just don't do something all the time, thats why i come up to NASS when i can to do the low speed stuff.
Also the day you stop learning is the day you die.

[p.dath]

Also the day you stop learning is the day you die.

Certainly the converse is true.

The day you die is the day you stop learning.

[Itchy_Kiwis]

Are we on for tonight? Anyone going straight to Albany?

[Qkchk]

May pop down after dinner to the carpark and see what everyone is up to.

[p.dath]

Two things to consider when riding (following on from tonight).


When you were riding tonight going around a corner were you watching the bike in front and its pretty red taillight or looking through the corner? Watching another rider have an accident is a great way to have one yourself. Always look through the corner where you want to go and don't get distracted.


I would say that when following riders tonight who where wearing only black that that at 100m you were pretty much invisible apart from a small red tailight. Consider that at 100km/h it will take less than 4s to cover 100m. The number one accident is a car pulling out in front of a motorcycle claiming they did not see the motorcycle.
Now lets say you were approaching a T intersection. A driver briefly looks left but doesn't really see you at 100m. They look right for 2s, and start to pull out. They then look left again and see you 2s away and in panic stop their vehicle in the middle of the road. Since you are 2s away from the car, and it takes your reflexes 2s to start working you are fucked. You will hit the car.
What protection and safety gear you wear is completely up to you and a personal choice. But just consider how invisible a rider is wearing all black in the black of night - especially out in the country where there is no street lighting.

[Devil]

Colour at night has nothing to do with anything (nor does it in the day), poor lighting does however.
Daytime is the worst for the smidsy's.

[BoristheBiter]

Have to agree with Devil on this one.
If a car pulling out in front of you can't see the big light what you are wearing makes little difference. (expect maybe some padding)

[p.dath]

Colour at night has nothing to do with anything (nor does it in the day), poor lighting does however.
Daytime is the worst for the smidsy's.

If you read that recent study by Professor Charles Lamb from Lincoln university, he suggests that strong contrasts rather than bold colour makes you more visible.
But at night time something that reflects light makes you much more visible. It was really obvious last night. Some riders were nearly invisible in the dark. And if your not very visible to me while I am looking for you, imagine what it would be like for a car driver NOT looking for you.


Have to agree with Devil on this one.
If a car pulling out in front of you can't see the big light what you are wearing makes little difference. (expect maybe some padding)

Ahh yes, that problem. The issue with a single light is it makes judging the distance in the dark very hard. Generally our eyes need at least two points to fixate on to accurately judge how far away something is.

The problem with bikes that have two lights is they look like a car very far away (also safe for the car to pull out in front of you).

[BoristheBiter]

Ahh yes, that problem. The issue with a single light is it makes judging the distance in the dark very hard. Generally our eyes need at least two points to fixate on to accurately judge how far away something is.

The problem with bikes that have two lights is they look like a car very far away (also safe for the car to pull out in front of you).

I don't think that is the issue as i have had more cars pull out while in my car than on my bike, but come to think of it there is more during the day than at night. i think it has more to do with the driver of the car pulling out. if the driver is going to pull out it really doesn't mater what you are wearing (except protection).

[R-Soul]

If you read that recent study by Professor Charles Lamb from Lincoln university, he suggests that strong contrasts rather than bold colour makes you more visible.
But at night time something that reflects light makes you much more visible. It was really obvious last night. Some riders were nearly invisible in the dark. And if your not very visible to me while I am looking for you, imagine what it would be like for a car driver NOT looking for you.



Ahh yes, that problem. The issue with a single light is it makes judging the distance in the dark very hard. Generally our eyes need at least two points to fixate on to accurately judge how far away something is.

The problem with bikes that have two lights is they look like a car very far away (also safe for the car to pull out in front of you).

Or they look like one of the headlights of the car behind them. That is why you need reflective stuff or running lights to "frame" the headlight to put it in context as motorbike, and break the illusion that the bikes headlight belongs to the car behind the bike.

Thats why I have reflective vest and reflective helmet (with stripes for contrast). And why I want to buy those LED running lights that are available from one of the KB'rs to put around the headlight to put it in context.

[p.dath]

I don't think that is the issue as i have had more cars pull out while in my car than on my bike, but come to think of it there is more during the day than at night. i think it has more to do with the driver of the car pulling out. if the driver is going to pull out it really doesn't mater what you are wearing (except protection).

Ah yes, but you see during the day traffic congestion turns to be worse. The more congestion, the more impatient people become, and the bigger the risk they are prepared to take.

The number of cars (percentage wise) that pull out in front of bikes is much higher in the cities than in rural zones.

[BoristheBiter]

Ah yes, but you see during the day traffic congestion turns to be worse. The more congestion, the more impatient people become, and the bigger the risk they are prepared to take.

The number of cars (percentage wise) that pull out in front of bikes is much higher in the cities than in rural zones.

I thought of that after I re-read what i posted.

[zealchick]

All that aside.... I had a great ride last night thanks everyone:2thumbsup

[retro asian]

But at night time something that reflects light makes you much more visible. .

The answer then is simply... more Chrome Baby!

I might have to get that chrome cup holder from the States I've always been wanting....will be mean for doing McDonalds/Wendy's drive thrus...

[p.dath]

Maha has posted a very good video on counter-steering. Well worth a watch.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123378-Countersteering-vs-body-leaning?p=1129758063#post1129758063

[Beth Stewart]

As a rider who wears black, I agree strongly with p.dath about getting some reflective gear especially for niight riding. Riders wearing it do stand out and are much more visible. I think anything that makes drivers notice you must be a good thing. Maybe it will make no difference to the 200plus times you go out but its the ONE time it does that counts.

[sl8er4lyf]

Gonna need a lesson on how to control a fish-tailing bike, hit an oil slick today and spilled her on the r/h side. Gear Protected me perfectly - thanks to Mark for his suggestions of not wearing shitty shoes my boots protected my feet. helloooo swann insurance.

[TOTO]

Sux dude. What tyres were you on ?

[sl8er4lyf]

New Pair of Metzlers, about 1000kms on them, told by a few riders they are some of the best they've had. So road was just bad im guessing, sandringham road near eden park. Only bad call on mine was to wear jeans, slid for 2secs. fucking rearset and levers or r/h side ans well as pipe & fairings. Looks like $600 to me. Engine runs good from the sounds of things. Fucking oil slick my best guess, looked at the road and that was what it looked like from my POV

[Sharry]

Oh sod, there is not much you can do once you start sliding on oil..... hope you don't wake up with too many aches in the morning.

[p.dath]

Gonna need a lesson on how to control a fish-tailing bike, hit an oil slick today and spilled her on the r/h side. Gear Protected me perfectly - thanks to Mark for his suggestions of not wearing shitty shoes my boots protected my feet. helloooo swann insurance.

Sorry to hear that. You already know the answer - keep looking where you want to go. :)

[BoristheBiter]

Gonna need a lesson on how to control a fish-tailing bike, hit an oil slick today and spilled her on the r/h side. Gear Protected me perfectly - thanks to Mark for his suggestions of not wearing shitty shoes my boots protected my feet. helloooo swann insurance.

Depands on what wheel has gone but generaly you relax and ease on the throttle slowly.
Also get some experience on a dirt bike as you stear more from the back wheel so when it does happen on the road it doesn't seem so bad.
but when all said it's easier said than done.

[sl8er4lyf]

I had my eyes up, and shifted my weight to the front wheel, but the front slipped out. Don't know where i went wrong there. I should've just pulled over and stopped but i thought i could wait it out

[Big Dog]

I had my eyes up, and shifted my weight to the front wheel, but the front slipped out. Don't know where i went wrong there. I should've just pulled over and stopped but i thought i could wait it out

Sometimes all the information, skills, advice, luck, faith and marbles all run out on the same day.

Sometimes your the pigeon, sometimes the statue.

The best anyone can do is load the dice as best as possible and roll anyway.

Life is a battle the victories are grand the loses don't matter and no one gets out alive.

[Big Dog]

No matter what anyone says about any course in the world...

No one can teach you the skills you need to stay alive.


What we, and any other course (formal or informal) for that matter, offers is that you will be shown a set of tools, how to use them and supervise you trying them. Much like wood shop at school.

Not everyone at wood shop comes away able to carve an arch or even make a box. But every one learns how to use a screw driver, a chisel and a hammer.

I am not saying for a second that you will always be exposed to great personal risk and your going to die on the road in a messy accident.

What I am saying is that the fear of never trying should be greater than the fear of dying.
The more you try and the more tools you learn to use the more masterpieces you can create.

[Nagash]

Whoa.. inspiration overload. Makes me want to take over the world listening to all of that. Brilliant stuff.

Is insurance going to write off the hyo? They usually do on the smallest of crashes due tot hose bloody fairings..

[R-Soul]

did your back wheel or front wheel hit the oil?

[Clean_up]

theory night tonight? or still on as per usual?

[thehovel]

theory night tonight? or still on as per usual?

Just a little damp , wet weather gear and we'll see what the rain is doing. Regards Richard

[TOTO]

heya all, here is a vid of a nice ride that we talked about.

We gotta do some adventure oriented riding at nass soon eh ? Good night fellas. catch ya on the next oen :)

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[Sharry]

That's what you get when you cross a mountain goat with an adventure bike :banana:

[sl8er4lyf]

Not sure, insurance hasn't got back to me yet, she is at red baron - should it be a write off i have a feeling i will be looking for a RS250 as my next ride. I have the feeling that it was both because the moment i shifted my weight forward she slipped out from under me, that would explain why it slipped over when i did so

[p.dath]

This is the thread I mentioned on Wednesday night from Pirelli about tyre myths.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123287-Tyre-myths-Pirelli-s-answers

Pirelli say things like you don't need to scrub in tyres anymore.

[TOTO]

I dont buy it.

[TOTO]

Not sure, insurance hasn't got back to me yet, she is at red baron - should it be a write off i have a feeling i will be looking for a RS250 as my next ride. I have the feeling that it was both because the moment i shifted my weight forward she slipped out from under me, that would explain why it slipped over when i did so


get a honda you

[Beth Stewart]

That's what you get when you cross a mountain goat with an adventure bike :banana:

Ha Ha! Nah, Sharry, they couldn't find a place to practice U turns!

[Hiflyer]

Not sure, insurance hasn't got back to me yet, she is at red baron - should it be a write off i have a feeling i will be looking for a RS250 as my next ride. I have the feeling that it was both because the moment i shifted my weight forward she slipped out from under me, that would explain why it slipped over when i did so


get a honda you


Get a hornet!

Great change from a hyo250. Unless you love the sound of a vtwin. That got a while to get used to for me, I still miss the rumble

[imw-hornet]

Agree , get a hornet , and about missing that sound ,,,,, na you will get over it very quickly once you wind the little hornet up to 15000

Yea ha ,,, may the hornets swarm

[p.dath]

Agree , get a hornet , and about missing that sound ,,,,, na you will get over it very quickly once you wind the little hornet up to 15000

Yea ha ,,, may the hornets swarm

Honda CBR250RR red line around 18,500. Enough said.

[TOTO]

I think Richard has gone down to the brass monkey for two weeks, so I'm bringing some balls with me. Start thinking what excercises you guys keen on.

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[R-Soul]

I think Richard has gone down to the brass monkey for two weeks, so I'm bringing some balls with me. Start thinking what excercises you guys keen on.


Knee down practice in the parking lot? Or around the circles?

[p.dath]

I think Richard has gone down to the brass monkey for two weeks, so I'm bringing some balls with me. Start thinking what excercises you guys keen on.

I didn't tink that started for another month?

[p.dath]

I just TXTed Richard, and he will not be along tonight.

[jamfig]

I didn't tink that started for another month?

balls and exercises mind boggles !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what are we in for tonight lol

[R-Soul]

balls and exercises mind boggles !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what are we in for tonight lol

Yup getting our knee down with balls in parking lot. Sounds like fun!!

But I am out - got studying to do

[TOTO]

no knee sliders today, but will make the most out of the balls :)

[sl8er4lyf]

Honda CBR250RR red line around 18,500. Enough said.

I have been looking at a Honda CBR250rr 1992 MC22, looks nice, and in-line four would be incredible, anything to beware of?

[cheesemethod]

Cheers for the good night tonight guys. Good to see plenty of brave souls despite the recent weather.

[R-Soul]

I have been looking at a Honda CBR250rr 1992 MC22, looks nice, and in-line four would be incredible, anything to beware of?
yes- make sure its got aftermarket pipes- they sound seriously WICKED with aftermarket pipes. Great bike to learn on - its got a bit of zip, but until you are prepaerd to use it, just stay below 12,000 rpm.

[p.dath]

I have been looking at a Honda CBR250rr 1992 MC22, looks nice, and in-line four would be incredible, anything to beware of?

They are a very reliable bike. Your not likely to haave too many problems with it.

[p.dath]

After our emergency braking session last night you might be interested in taking a read of my emergency braking blog.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1453-Motorcycle-Emergency-Braking

[Bashie]

Just wanted to say was nice to meet you all last night was good to talk to other bikers am already looking forward to coming along next week, hopefully will make it for the ride before as well :)

[p.dath]

Just wanted to say was nice to meet you all last night was good to talk to other bikers am already looking forward to coming along next week, hopefully will make it for the ride before as well :)

Don't forget to get MrBashie signed up as well. :lol:

[Ironclaw]

Great ride guys, won't be there next week but will definately come the week after ;)

still can't believe I managed to burn off the firestorm lol

[jamfig]

just a sideline on the night wondering if anyone who owns a 250 kawasaki has any indications of how far they can go on a tank of gas or klms (tank being 18ltrs average) ?? :bye:

[Ironclaw]

I'd assume about 300-350 km's?

[jamfig]

I'd assume about 300-350 km's?

thanks i was guessing around the same so is a pretty cheap ride :)

[hctseng]

just a sideline on the night wondering if anyone who owns a 250 kawasaki has any indications of how far they can go on a tank of gas or klms (tank being 18ltrs average) ?? :bye:
You should get pretty close to 400km from full tank to the empty light, Mine did average 23km per litre from memory.

For those who missed last night !!!

plcD9UEdtt8

[zealchick]

Just wanted to say was nice to meet you all last night was good to talk to other bikers am already looking forward to coming along next week, hopefully will make it for the ride before as well :)

its great to have another women we are slowly evening out the numbers :-)

[zealchick]

Just wanted to say was nice to meet you all last night was good to talk to other bikers am already looking forward to coming along next week, hopefully will make it for the ride before as well :)

Welcome :-) Its great to have another women come along.

[Loki]

just a sideline on the night wondering if anyone who owns a 250 kawasaki has any indications of how far they can go on a tank of gas or klms (tank being 18ltrs average) ?? :bye:

I get 270-290 kms on a tank, communting from Waitakere to Auckland CBD - Kawasaki GPX Ninja 250