The Bucket Foundry

[Drew]

Don't bother with a water cooled barrel for that - it doesn't need one. Just put a decent ignition on it and sort it.
that one i'm pretty sure was first built by Peter Lambert here in ChCh.
Good to know. Your torque settings for the head on that fourteen are coming thismorning.

Should I match the timing to a VT do ya reckon? A CDI for one of them is gonna be cheaper that an ignitech is all.

[husaberg]

Waterpump looks to be operational from what I can tell.

What do you mean about the rotor? Currently has the auto advancing ignition pickup from an XL on it. But ignitech is the obvious best upgrade for that.

Trad hondas other than the XR100 style have the auto advance on the cam.

[Drew]

Trad hondas other than the XR100 style have the auto advance on the cam.Yeah, that's been grafted onto this head. If I go ignitech or VT CDI then I don't have to do the same to another head.

Goal is to get the timing sussed and tye bike running nice, then swap to a rear VT head to reverse port it...just because it's cool.

[husaberg]

Yeah, that's been grafted onto this head. If I go ignitech or VT CDI then I don't have to do the same to another head.

Goal is to get the timing sussed and tye bike running nice, then swap to a rear VT head to reverse port it...just because it's cool.

Which is why i sugested A pitbike ignition...........
http://www.blygo.com.au/pictures/motorcycle_parts/magneto_stator/inner_rotor/magneto_stator_inner_rotor_kit_lf_02.jpg
Designed to run at engine speed as well so goes on the crank pretty sure it fits the earlier taper of the CB100 not so sure about the reversed 125S though

[Drew]

Hmmm. I have a pit bike motor under the bench. Will have a wee look at it tonight.

[Grumph]

I've said somewhere else before that this motor did run - but maybe never raced. It was over advanced as the box used was for a crank triggered ignition - and it was being triggered by the end of the cam which had a c/f advancer. Two advance curves - one in the box, one c/f.....sounded painfully sharp.
I'd pick that a very basic curve would do well - at least to get it running and sort the mechanicals.

[Drew]

I've said somewhere else before that this motor did run - but maybe never raced. It was over advanced as the box used was for a crank triggered ignition - and it was being triggered by the end of the cam which had a c/f advancer. Two advance curves - one in the box, one c/f.....sounded painfully sharp.
I'd pick that a very basic curve would do well - at least to get it running and sort the mechanicals.

Righto then. I'll chuck an XL CDI in it and go from there.

[Kickaha]

Righto then. I'll chuck an XL CDI in it and go from there.

If Oyster still comes on here he had a running version that won races, you could see what he used although it's likely to be a chainsaw ignition off something he had sitting around for a couple of decades, his had a cool frame as well

[Yow Ling]

Finally got my ducks in a row and will try and cast something later today, there are lots of details involved, flasks , tools , safety gear etc.
I spent some time making some tools yesterday , tongs, a skimmer , a thing to hold crucible when pouring.
On Friday I went down to the local foundry and got a fish crate of greensand even though its black. In the last few months I have accumulated a bit of a pile of scrap so my first pour will be from some FXR150 parts and a few Petter pistons

302993

[Yow Ling]

Pour done, didnt go 100% to plan, but I have got one usable casting

the problems I had were i think due to the sand being a little too dry and making a mess of my mould.

The furnace was great and I melted way more metal than I needed.

The pour went well, with no dangerous shit going on

303001
303002
303003
303004

[Buddha#81]

I was there for YL's first pour. I have to say it was a let down I was expecting more action with sparks and hot chicks. Still cool to see!

[WilDun]

Pour done, didnt go 100% to plan, but I have got one usable casting



It was still progress, no matter how it turned out, the next one will no doubt be better, keep going!
Was it ironsand that you were using?
How difficult was the mould making?

i got sidetracked trying to make machinable wax - I'm still interested in lost wax method.
Ended up using a redundant electric frypan on full blast to melt milk containers into molten candle wax, seems to be a good start, (we'll soon see when I try machining it!).

[Yow Ling]

the sand isnt what I was expecting, thats what they use at the aluminium foundry, it has clay in it , and breaks if you make a lump from it, I will look out for some others, but this will do for now. Started machining the casting tonight , will be fine for the job

Making the mould was a bit tricky, I learned heaps, the sand was a bit crumbly, so I think a little extra moisturewill help, also need to pay a bit more attention to the draught on the pattern, will do another this weekend and will also pour the investment mould that I forgot to do in all the excitement

[Flettner]

Yow Ling, find some CC601 and cast that ( common alloy ). Then send up a part and I'll put it in with my heat treating if you like, you will see a world of difference in machining and strength.

[WilDun]

the sand isnt what I was expecting, thats what they use at the aluminium foundry, it has clay in it ,


Maybe it was sand that they had already used which had become black? Guess if it was ironsand it might contaminate the aluminium.
Can't wait to do my first pour, but may have to wait to go to my son's bach (crib to you:msn-wink:) where the neighbours aren't so close, there's a good outside garage and a big area in front of it where I can do the job.

BTW I wouldn't turn down Neil's offer!

[Yow Ling]

Hi Flettner, Ill go look for some cc601 today, it will be a little while before I send you anything as I want to get a bit better at the mould making first, I can use up my scrap on that first. Thanks for your offer.

[Yow Ling]

Found some cc601 today , was surprised at the cost way cheaper than I thought @ $5 / KG. Go pick up an ingot tomorrow

[Yow Ling]

Almost as exciting as a big block of Hash

303144

[Kickaha]

Almost as exciting as a big block of Hash

But not as expensive

[WilDun]

Almost as exciting as a big block of Hash

A fairly sizeable piece! hope you've got a bandsaw / hacksaw or whatever!
Did you get it from Alcan?

[Yow Ling]

A fairly sizeable piece! hope you've got a bandsaw / hacksaw or whatever!
Did you get it from Alcan?

I got it from Ulrich they have 3 pallets on hand in chch

[WilDun]

I got it from Ulrich they have 3 pallets on hand in chch

What weight is an ingot?
It could be worthwhile my buying one, (might try Ulrich in Otahuhu) except that I'll be casting very small parts, but it would take the guesswork out of things, especially if I've been trying to melt and use dodgy scrap!

Guess that's what Flettner is driving at (knowing what you have for heat treatment) - and if it pours well, machines well and has good strength, then that's exactly what I need.

[Yow Ling]

What weight is an ingot?
It could be worthwhile my buying one, (might try Ulrich in Otahuhu) except that I'll be casting very small parts, but it would take the guesswork out of things, especially if I've been trying to melt and use dodgy scrap!

Guess that's what Flettner is driving at (knowing what you have for heat treatment) - If it pours well, machines well and has good strength, then that's what I need.

Hi Will , its 23 kg cost $112

[WilDun]

Hi Will , its 23 kg cost $112

Ah well, probably worth it but that will be a big decision, it would possibly see me out! - so now I'll have to decide whether I'll be able to keep on casting till that time! :laugh: ( not really all that old, but have had a few close calls I'm afraid!).

[speedpro]

I had some bits cast in a local foundry years ago using LM13, as suggested by Flettner, and then heat treated. The castings machined beautifully. don't know how that compares with CC601.

[WilDun]

I had some bits cast in a local foundry years ago using LM13, as suggested by Flettner, and then heat treated. The castings machined beautifully. don't know how that compares with CC601.

I think that LM13 had a much higher silicon content and I was always led to believe that it was very good for casting but more difficult to machine (can't verify that of course - you didn't seem to have any trouble) but I think that it, or something similar was normally used in cast pistons (low expansion), ie till they started using forged pistons.
That's what I read anyway! - way back.

[Flettner]

yes, LM13, a good piston alloy for car engines. It's about as high as you can go with silicon percentage before it won't stay in solution. approx 9% I think? After that the alloy needs to be hyperutectic? ( not sure of the spelling ) something else is used to bind the silicon in solution to bring the silicon % up to as much as 25% in some pistons. Most cast twostroke pistons are around 17% ( or used to be ). The silicon gives the piston hot strength and helps control expansion. Down side is heat transfer is impaired.
I would have said that cylinders should be cast in LM13 but for two reasons, one, cylinders run so cold now I'm not sure the expansion rate is a problem and second, is't hard to get hold of. I bought some 20 years ago, was told that's the last of it although nower days I'm sure it can be got online somewhere. Higher silicon % wears cutting tools out quicker. I'm not sure that I might have some still in my storage cowshed, It will be covered in bird crap.
Idea would be to cast a cylinder in each alloy and see the difference in power? CC601 is ultimately stronger ( not at elevated temps ).
I might be wrong, just talked to Glucina and they have 80kg's of the stuff, just finding out a price.

[husaberg]

yes, LM13, a good piston alloy for car engines. It's about as high as you can go with silicon percentage before it won't stay in solution. approx 9% I think? After that the alloy needs to be hyperutectic? ( not sure of the spelling ) something else is used to bind the silicon in solution to bring the silicon % up to as much as 25% in some pistons. Most cast twostroke pistons are around 17% ( or used to be ). The silicon gives the piston hot strength and helps control expansion. Down side is heat transfer is impaired.
I would have said that cylinders should be cast in LM13 but for two reasons, one, cylinders run so cold now I'm not sure the expansion rate is a problem and second, is't hard to get hold of. I bought some 20 years ago, was told that's the last of it although nower days I'm sure it can be got online somewhere. Higher silicon % wears cutting tools out quicker. I'm not sure that I might have some still in my storage cowshed, It will be covered in bird crap.
Idea would be to cast a cylinder in each alloy and see the difference in power? CC601 is ultimately stronger ( not at elevated temps ).
I might be wrong, just talked to Glucina and they have 80kg's of the stuff, just finding out a price.

The exotic euros use (GaAlSi9) not sure what it is likely a EURO counterpart of something else. (Guessing here its 9% Si) likely horrendously expensive

From a guy who used to work for cosworth said LM25TF is what most the Poms use for cases and cylinders..........No idea what either are.........
he said It's the best "regular" casting alloy you can get without going into weird expensive stuff.
He also said the crankcase are much higher stressed than the cylinders.

That said mine are made of good intentions and a dash of procrastination

[Flettner]

I think LM25 is CC601 one is English and the other US standards.

What about an inline electric water pump? Are they effective? Or am I better to stick to the tried and true mechanical type? Because of my "fluid" design system the water pump is an add on ( I will probably machine it into the clutch side case ) but I do like the idea of a controled water pump as we have the power and the control ( ECU ). Any thoughts?

[speedpro]

Electric is easier to do for us plebs. For the man with a good workshop probably not too much of a problem. I like the rock solid reliability of a mechanical pump. With the bypass type system the warmup is quick and you don't have the pump fighting against a closed thermostat. Getting a good, small, reliable water pump may be a problem as well.

[Flettner]

Electric is easier to do for us plebs. For the man with a good workshop probably not too much of a problem. I like the rock solid reliability of a mechanical pump. With the bypass type system the warmup is quick and you don't have the pump fighting against a closed thermostat. Getting a good, small, reliable water pump may be a problem as well.

I tend to agree, just that it has been suggested to me to use one.

Mike, the fuel pump you use? how big is it, weight, how much does it cost, what flow? Is it an ecotrons unit? Made in China?

[Grumph]

LM13 is 10 - 13% silicon. LM25 is 6.5 - 7.5% silicon. The US equivalent of LM25 is A356.

LM 25's probably the best all round casting alloy. Lacks ductility and impact resistance in TF condition. welds well...

last time i got anything cast it was in "Comalco 50" if I remember right. foundry recommended it as a good general purpose alloy - and said it was heat treatable but it did also age harden. Triple clamps cast in it are still good about 15 years later....

[Flettner]

LM13 is 10 - 13% silicon. LM25 is 6.5 - 7.5% silicon. The US equivalent of LM25 is A356.

LM 25's probably the best all round casting alloy. Lacks ductility and impact resistance in TF condition. welds well...

last time i got anything cast it was in "Comalco 50" if I remember right. foundry recommended it as a good general purpose alloy - and said it was heat treatable but it did also age harden. Triple clamps cast in it are still good about 15 years later....

Maybe the CC601 is an Asian alloy number, I always thought it was American, anyway same stuff.

[Flettner]

The exotic euros use (GaAlSi9) not sure what it is likely a EURO counterpart of something else. (Guessing here its 9% Si) likely horrendously expensive

From a guy who used to work for cosworth said LM25TF is what most the Poms use for cases and cylinders..........No idea what either are.........
he said It's the best "regular" casting alloy you can get without going into weird expensive stuff.
He also said the crankcase are much higher stressed than the cylinders.

That said mine are made of good intentions and a dash of procrastination

Well, out with the glue and wood, evenings are getting longer, get rid of that TV ( ours has been gone a year now ), in no time you will have a crank case pattern.

[husaberg]

Well, out with the glue and wood, evenings are getting longer, get rid of that TV ( ours has been gone a year now ), in no time you will have a crank case pattern.

I have drawn up something got some custom wood off cuts that were lying arround at work (can't get amourboard) I was going to try and soak some in some polyurethane and see what happens.
The computer is my problem. Funny enough there is a 100 litre steel drum in there too ......
re the water pump I always liked the ktm50 water pump set up. It drives on a tank on the ignition and sits on the cover (don't worry it pushes out the way)
303210303211303212


I posted another electric one on the ESE thread as well as the one you mentioned. ( I recognised it from a pic wob had posted of the TZ400)

bit pricey though, but does include a control unit.
http://www.bdkraceeng.co.uk/Electric%20Water%20Pump%201.html

[Yow Ling]

The exotic euros use (GaAlSi9) not sure what it is likely a EURO counterpart of something else. (Guessing here its 9% Si) likely horrendously expensive

From a guy who used to work for cosworth said LM25TF is what most the Poms use for cases and cylinders..........No idea what either are.........
he said It's the best "regular" casting alloy you can get without going into weird expensive stuff.
He also said the crankcase are much higher stressed than the cylinders.

That said mine are made of good intentions and a dash of procrastination

cc601 falls within the composition of LM25


-----------------LM25-------------cc601
-------------------% -------------%
Copper-------0.1 max----------<0.01
Magnesium---0.2 to 0.6----------0.3
Silicon--------6.5 to 7.5----------7.2
Iron-----------0.5 max------------0.12
Manganese---0.3 max-----------<0.01
Nickel---------0.1 max------------0.01
Zinc-----------0.1 max------------<0.01
Lead-----------0.1 max-------------na
Tin------------0.05 max-----------na
Titanium*-----0.2 max------------0.03
Aluminium remainder

[Flettner]

I have drawn up something got some custom wood off cuts that were lyingarround at work (can't get amourboard) I was going to try and soak some in some polyurethane and see what happens.
The computer is my problem.
re the water pump I always liked the ktm50 water pump set up. It drives on a tank on the ignition and sits on the cover (don't worry it pushes out the way)
303210303211303212


I posted another electric one on the ESE thread as well as the one you mentioned. ( I recognised it from a pic wob had posted of the TZ400)

bit pricey though
http://www.bdkraceeng.co.uk/Electric%20Water%20Pump%201.html

I did consider putting the pump there but I may have to keep this space free for something else.
I think I'll run a small sealed off tooth belt drive to the pump, there is a nice space under the engine that looks like it should have a water pump there. If I didn't know better I would say the designer thought to put the pump there.

[husaberg]

I did consider putting the pump there but I may have to keep this space free for something else.
I think I'll run a small sealed off tooth belt drive to the pump, there is a nice space under the engine that looks like it should have a water pump there. If I didn't know better I would say the designer thought to put the pump there.

From memory the Britten ran a water pump off a ford escort or similar....... available for bugger all, plus on the shelf at all repro shops all around NZ......food for thought

[Flettner]

Husaberg, you don't need a computer, just draw the case out on a bit of 4 / 5mm ply and build it up from there. CNC and computer are nice but you don't need them. What you do need is a small lathe, bansaw and one of those linisher / face / belt sandy things. Plus five miniute epoxy and bondi fill. Dry pine is good to use, native woods often have an oil in them and bondi won't stick, I use kiln dried pine a lot.
PM me your phone number again, I can't find it.

[husaberg]

Husaberg, you don't need a computer, just draw the case out on a bit of 4 / 5mm ply and build it up from there. CNC and computer are nice but you don't need them. What you do need is a small lathe, bansaw and one of those linisher / face / belt sandy things. Plus five miniute epoxy and bondi fill. Dry pine is good to use, native woods often have an oil in them and bondi won't stick, I use kiln dried pine a lot.
PM me your phone number again, I can't find it.

No I am drawing it on paper, it is just getting me away from the computer inorder to do something is the issue.
I was going to jig jaw it out on a plywood base.

[Yow Ling]

I cast a couple more things today, two different methods

One was the investment casting that I forgot to pour last week, the other a better version of the thumb choke

The investment casting was based on the method used in the video posted by Will plastic parts with foam runners riser and gates glued together and cast into a 50/50 mixture of sand and plaster, I cooked the mould in the furnace which was a very smelly business, should have put it outside. Turned out that the part was about 1mm away from the wall of the mould so it blew out, I put some duct tape overthe hole and sat the whole thing in some greensannd to hold back the molten metal after the tape failed. Worked our reasonably well

303241303242

The other is a sand cast there were a couple of issues with the sand crumbling but I was happy the thumb lever came out ok

This stuff is very rewarding

[WilDun]

I cast a couple more things today, two different methods Worked our reasonably well.
This stuff is very rewarding

I was away for the weekend and got home in time to see the last 30 laps or so of "the great race", then the Moto GP (recorded) all good stuff! So I've only just now managed to have a look at the thread.

YL, great to see you persevering and getting there, good effort so far.

Also great to see that there are quite a few more people (besides Flettner) who are interested to some degree, in this process, ie. more than I had thought there were! :)

[husaberg]

I was away for the weekend and got home in time to see the last 30 laps or so of "the great race", then the Moto GP (recorded) all good stuff! So I've only just now managed to have a look at the thread.

YL, great to see you persevering and getting there, good effort so far.

Also great to see that there are quite a few more people (besides Flettner) who are interested to some degree, in this process, ie. more than I had thought there were! :)

I put together a bit of a photomontage of Neil’s many many projects i haven’t put them in order yet.
One word describes Neil ...........Prolific
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=4864

if you can't see the album don't blame me.

[Yow Ling]

Starting to look like something useful

304003

[WilDun]

Starting to look like something useful


YL did you use the material from the ingot you bought in the latest melt?
Yes the stuff you have cast is beginning to show a lot of promise. Are you still interested in pursuing the lost plastic idea, or do you think the good old fashioned way is still the best?
Guess the plastic method really needs a printer to make it viable unless you're prepared to cast plastic (or wax) patterns in the first place - a lot of extra work to just really do away with parting lines I guess!
Probably better suited to batch work.

HUSA, you sure have a way with pictures, the ones you put together make a nice nice neat little package, - hope the guy who took them thinks so too.

[Yow Ling]

YL did you use the material from the ingot you bought in the latest melt?
Yes the stuff you have cast is beginning to show a lot of promise. Are you still interested in pursuing the lost plastic idea, or do you think the good old fashioned way is still the best?
Guess the plastic method really needs a printer to make it viable unless you're prepared to cast plastic (or wax) patterns in the first place - a lot of extra work to just really do away with parting lines I guess!
Probably better suited to batch work.

Hi Will, these are still from scrap, I still havnt figured a way to cut the ingot, maybe I should take it down to the train track and wait for a loco to do it.

The lost plastic is really nice , but like you say quite a lot of extra work, the casting resin is pretty bad when its on fire so a lower temperature material would help alot. It was fun to do and pretty easy. The other downside is you loose your pattern each time.

the machining is quite relaxing , Im supposed to be building a bucket engine, so I did some machining then some engine work

[WilDun]

Hi Will, these are still from scrap, I still havnt figured a way to cut the ingot,

Might even be possible to do it on an old firewood type sawbench with a finer tooth blade, (ie. if you're careful and not easily frightened!) :eek5:

[Flettner]

Might even be possible to do it on an old firewood type sawbench with a finer tooth blade, (ie. if you're careful and not easily frightened!) :eek5:

A bandsaw? no? Or perhaps cordite and a detonator, my dad used to cut concrete like that.

[WilDun]

A bandsaw? no? Or perhaps cordite and a detonator, my dad used to cut concrete like that.

i'd think it's probably a little bit too big to fit the average guy's bandsaw - but I'm sure someone close by will have a bigger bandsaw.

Cordite? detonator? - I think we need more explanation there!

[Flettner]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5056_zpsd23cc55b.jpg

Testing the new I phone 7, injected Kawasaki.

[husaberg]

So raiding Neils Photobucket (with his permission)and talking to him on the Phone the other day has got me a little inspired.
Those who know me and those that likely those that don't will have gathered by now I am a procrastinator.:msn-wink:

So here we go I have made a couple of decisions.
I ditch for now most of the Honda NSR125.

I start with the great unloved Honda VT250 MC15. (for its gearbox)
For a couple of reasons.
The engines would likely not have lasted long enough to do much wear on the Gearbox.

They have a number of clutch configurations.

The gearbox appears to have other ratios available different years had diferent ratios.

Honda are lazy so other models such as the CBR250rr and MVX250 used the same or eerily similar gearboxs.

They have pretty good ratios for a legal gearbox (pretty much the same ratios as a CR85)

They have a very large center spacing (this is important if the cases are to be water cooled.)


They are capable of handling 40hp and have a 40 hp clutch

Lastly I had already one in the shed.:innocent:

I didn't initially consider it because they have huge cases, but a peak inside today shows the gears are actually pretty tiny.

A look around shows the water pump might work on a 2 stroke bucket as well and there are other stuff I can raid of it as well.



I would love to do a rear exiting exhaust 2 stoke disk valve engine but I don't think it is possible with the NF4 frame.
Bugger....... compromised even more before I started.

So look forward to buggar all progress in the time honoured tradition...........

The plan is to map the centre spacing as per Neil, but with mandrels ie big bolts and felt tipped pens.:facepalm:

Just a bugger I choose a set of case that are so bloody huge and are horizontally split.

Then design around the gearbox so need to go looking for a crank in 50mm stroke that can work with the std Honda primary gears hopefull have a balance set up as well.

Whist working with the confines of the two mounting points of my yet undelivered (but hopefully soon) unmolested NF4 frame

Primary reduction
2.821

1st gear ratio
2.562 (41/16)
2nd gear ratio
1.850 (37/20)
3rd gear ratio
1.478 (34/23)
4th gear ratio
1.240 (31/25)
5th gear ratio
1.074 (29/27)
6th gear ratio
0.965 (28/29)

I was going to use a NSR250 cassette box but don't have one. nor know how big they are

[Yow Ling]

Supercharged 100 ?
Sounds like a good plan

[husaberg]

Supercharged 100 ?
Sounds like a good plan

No after reading my post i could see i was not that clear and that was why I brought the VT stuff though.
The plan is its going to be a 2 smoke Honda NSR100 with a Aprilia style Disk valve and Clylinder just with no NSR parts.

More like this.304162
Although as I was typing this it occurred to me that I still have MB50 cases (to get the dimensions off) and a gearbox

if I was to run a front exhaust, the case channels would be at the front?
So even if I needed to run the water around the back a jackshaft and running the ignition off the primary side even backwards would free up a lot of space for a disk valve.

In case anyone is confused, i intend with some (read lots)help and advice from Neil to build a set of cases to match my Cylinder.
Rather than spend a lot of money to match std cases and cranks to what i have.

[F5 Dave]

Yep can't see any problems with that.

[Flettner]

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_5062_zpsce0016e9.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5062_zpsce0016e9.jpg" style=""></a>
Carbon based release adgent

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_5061_zpsa45ec78e.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5061_zpsa45ec78e.jpg" style=""></a>
Filling with shell core heat set sand, then off to the oven to bake.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_0519.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_0519.jpg" style=""></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg" style=""></a>
Finished 360 cylinder water cores with allowance for blade type power valve now. Metal will flow through this gap to make a soild plug through which I can machine a slot for the power valve blade to run. As simple as that.

[Cheesy]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5056_zpsd23cc55b.jpg

Testing the new I phone 7, injected Kawasaki.

Probably not much use to you but someone has written an android app for megasquirt, I added a bluetooth rs323 adapter to the MS board and can now do it all on a tablet (this is in a car though so no where near as cool as an EFI 2 stroke)

[Flettner]

It's a bit crap, you would think Link had a window that would plug into the ECU and be able to see the program while it's running, but not as big as a lap top. They do make a screen that shows temps etc but not the running program. So, o well, this setup works, if a little cumbersome.

[Yow Ling]

It's a bit crap, you would think Link had a window that would plug into the ECU and be able to see the program while it's running, but not as big as a lap top. They do make a screen that shows temps etc but not the running program. So, o well, this setup works, if a little cumbersome.

You are lucky you didn't build this bike 25 years ago when portable computers were called lugables

[WilDun]

More or less finished my furnace which I have left to dry out before firing it up.

Decided a while ago to have a go at making machinable wax and got a large candle from the little Chinese craft shop down the road, bought an electric frypan on Trademe for $10, cut up a few milk bottles and a few opaque yoghurt containers ( The yoghurt containers look to be the same material as milk containers ie Hi density polyethelyne or HDPE).

I turned the frypan up to full bore and melted the candle first then melted in the plastic stirring it till it wouldn't absorb any more. Then I poured it into a thick walled cardboard core and let it cool overnight.
Shrinkage was a problem and I think it needs to be fed more wax as it cools. I ripped off the cardboard and tried it with a milling cutter and it machined beautifully, but although it was reasonably hard, it was still a little on the waxy side.
Today I melted it all down again and melted in another yoghurt container stirring it in (for about 15 mins) at as high a heat as I thought safe, before it got properly absorbed!

Not having many suitable things to pour it into, I used a couple of Weider weights as moulds (I was going to use them for material on the lathe) however, they showed me that the wax was excellent for patterns for lost wax casting as the writing on them came out perfectly!

I'll try machining the wax again tonight, - when you hit two pieces together, it sounds like hard plastic, the difference is that it cuts easily and cleanly with a knife and of course melts at much lower temperatures.
I have high hopes of it being good for machining.

[WilDun]

A word of warning though, you need to use temperature controlled heating! - don't try it with gas hobs etc.!

I got a terrible fright a few days ago, although I had originally melted everything at full heat on the frypan the first time, I assumed that I would just melt it again at full heat - big mistake, I left it heating up and was working on something else and there was a sudden bang, the lid of the frypan jumped up and flipped and the melt went on fire! I managed to grab the lid and put it on again and the flames went out - luckily!

This time I kept the temperature a little lower, maybe a bit over three quarters and it did the job fine.
However, another fright today, luckily I had decided to do it all outside and I set a tin can full of hardened wax in the frypan and let it slowly melt, had a look at it and decided it was going a bit slow so I gave the crust on top a prod with my stirring stick and the whole lot shot into the molten pool underneath spraying me with hot molten wax!
I really got a fright when I saw the congealed wax all over my hand so I rushed to the cold tap and held it there for about 10 minutes and I consider myself lucky to get off lightly with a very red hand covered with cracking wax and a couple of little blisters! (hurt like hell though).

Moral of the story? - listen to those who have done it before, don't be in too much of a rush, have everything prepared and thought out beforehand, don't underestimate the flammability of hot wax and the possibility of it doing some severe damage to your body!
Keep an extinguisher handy and DON'T spray it straight into the molten wax pool, or it will come back and bite you!!!
Always wear some leather gloves and adequate eye and face protection.

In other words, -Don't be a DICK (like me :facepalm:)

[Bert]

Thanks for sharing guys.

I'm starting to get excited by this (again)

Here's my fist attempt at a furnace from a few years back. Scotty keeps laughing at me (apparently I should stick to my day job)...

k.304233

It won't be long until GPR starts melting again...

[Yow Ling]

Another closet pyro coming out, I suppose you guys will cast a frame, easy !!

[Flettner]

http://www.dailymotion.com/embed/video/x281owx

EFI twostroke, Sherco.

[WilDun]

FLETTNER, those photos you last posted didn't come up when I clicked on them, it just took me to the Photobucket site but that's as far as I got! - would still be keen to see them if possible.

BERT, Good to see there are others interested!
I get laughed at too, my family think I'm nuts, (maybe I am, but it's a much happier state to be in than following the great sane majority, who know best what I should enjoy!). :wacko:

YL, That's pushing things a bit! and you'd be missing out on all the fun building a steel one out of 4130 or whatever they use nowadays!

[husaberg]

Finished 360 cylinder water cores with allowance for blade type power valve now. Metal will flow through this gap to make a soild plug through which I can machine a slot for the power valve blade to run. As simple as that.


give me a minute.........

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_5062_zpsce0016e9.jpg
Carbon based release agent

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_5061_zpsa45ec78e.jpg
Filling with shell core heat set sand, then off to the oven to bake.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_0519.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg

Only seam available as a mini pic Neil?
<img src="http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_5062_zpsce0016e9.jpg" width="640px"/>
Carbon based release agent

<img src="http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_5061_zpsa45ec78e.jpg" width="640px"/>
Filling with shell core heat set sand, then off to the oven to bake.

<img src="http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_0519.jpg" width="640px"/>

<img src="http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/th_IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg" width="640px"/>

[Flettner]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5062_zpsce0016e9.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5061_zpsa45ec78e.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg

These might be a little clearer, back to my old system.

[husaberg]

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk304240

little photo story.
304244

[WilDun]

FLETTNER.
Carbon based release agent??
In the first photo are you deliberately using a carbonising flame?

[Flettner]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg

Like that?

[husaberg]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg

Like that?

That's it.:done: now if you do the last step you can place them in with the text.
304245

Its a down arrow in the attachment box just to the right (can't see it in the dark zone settings I use.)

The first one you did the water cores
was done as adding a link to a picture (which is great to use when the picture exceeds the size allowed by KB.)
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg
304246

the easiest way to do this is just to rick click on the picture get the address, and then just paste it in direct. (the clever KB widget fairies recognise this and it works a treat.)
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg

[TZ350]

That's it.:done:
304245

I would like to know more about this generator stator and flywheel and where to buy them.... :D

[Muciek]

Ebay and chinesee scooter stator. They are here (in Poland) cheap as chips You can get stator and flywheel for 15$. Propably in Your case taper machining will be necessary.

[husaberg]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_5058_zps14c5c5a6.jpg

Like that?


I would like to know more about this generator stator and flywheel and where to buy them.... :D


Ebay and chinesee scooter stator. They are here (in Poland) cheap as chips You can get stator and flywheel for 15$. Propably in Your case taper machining will be necessary.

That's what I was thinking it was too.Neil?
Or is it a std late Honda single alternator off say a crf150/230

[husaberg]

So no bastard is to pour scorn on my photoshop.:rolleyes:
304292
here is the basic layout I have preliminary decided on until I get an unmolested frame I can't set the front mount position.
Once that is decided I have a couple of datum points to work within.

I hope to have the balancer and the water pump both on the already busy clutch side with the generator here as well.
The disk entry on the output side Reversal of the Rotax Aprilia design.

I was worried with the water entry going on top and under the engine but seeing as it didn't worry Derbi and Aprilia.
304284304283

Balancer shaft.
304293

[Flettner]

I get those flywheels from Wobbly, I've used one in my Kawasaki for a few years now, seems to work ok. I have had one of the regulators fail.

[Michael Moore]

I'd like to start off by thanking Flettner for sharing the great information on foundry practice. I've found it very informative and have pointed several friends at this thread.

My friends and I have been thinking about having some items cast, but the first (and most local) foundry I went to with a couple of aircooled 2T cylinders in hand as examples quickly told me that was going to be outside their comfort zone. That's too bad as they are the only one whose website made any mention of being willing to work with loose patters one-offs for hobbyists. The others are 30-60 miles away and my impression is that they are more interested in commercial/production work so I haven't made a trip to visit them yet.

One of the things we are interested in is replicating some VMX aftermarket 2T cylinder heads and tomorrow I'll organize a couple of photos and questions about how best the molds might be fed. We can handle making patterns, but we don't have anyone to advise us on the sprue/gates/riser system. Perhaps that is something the better foundries might do, though I suspect they won't do it for free.

I've got a large heat treat oven with programmable control that goes to 2000F.

http://www.paragonweb.com/HT22D.cfm

It requires 240v 30A single phase and is rated at 7.2 KW. It is 13.25" high on the inside which would accommodate a 16 pound (aluminum) crucible (9.3" tall). I have the impression that it is best to melt the aluminum quickly so it has the least amount of time to oxidize. Do you have any idea if the HT oven might do the job quickly enough for oxidation to not be a problem? My house is an urban area where the lots are 25 feet wide, so gas furnaces and smoke/noise are not a good idea. I can't say that I'm keen on the thought of what would happen in the garage if there was a crucible failure in the oven or while the crucible was being carried to the back yard. Maybe it would be best to stick with making patterns and farm out the rest of the process.

Earlier there was a post in which someone asked about buying pieces of wrought material to machine parts instead of casting. While NZ seems to have better access to foundries, here in the US we seem to do better on the availability of large offcuts at reasonable prices. I just bought two pieces of 6061-T651, 3.5" x 12" x 12" off of eBay for US$160 each, including shipping to me. Since I have a CNC mill and do a 3D model anyway it makes machining a one-off vertically-split crankcase look more economical than dealing with a foundry.

cheers,
Michael

[husaberg]

I'd like to start off by thanking Flettner for sharing the great information on foundry practice. I've found it very informative and have pointed several friends at this thread.

My friends and I have been thinking about having some items cast, but the first (and most local) foundry I went to with a couple of aircooled 2T cylinders in hand as examples quickly told me that was going to be outside their comfort zone. That's too bad as they are the only one whose website made any mention of being willing to work with loose patters one-offs for hobbyists. The others are 30-60 miles away and my impression is that they are more interested in commercial/production work so I haven't made a trip to visit them yet.

One of the things we are interested in is replicating some VMX aftermarket 2T cylinder heads and tomorrow I'll organize a couple of photos and questions about how best the molds might be fed. We can handle making patterns, but we don't have anyone to advise us on the sprue/gates/riser system. Perhaps that is something the better foundries might do, though I suspect they won't do it for free.

I've got a large heat treat oven with programmable control that goes to 2000F.

http://www.paragonweb.com/HT22D.cfm

It requires 240v 30A single phase and is rated at 7.2 KW. It is 13.25" high on the inside which would accommodate a 16 pound (aluminum) crucible (9.3" tall). I have the impression that it is best to melt the aluminum quickly so it has the least amount of time to oxidize. Do you have any idea if the HT oven might do the job quickly enough for oxidation to not be a problem? My house is an urban area where the lots are 25 feet wide, so gas furnaces and smoke/noise are not a good idea. I can't say that I'm keen on the thought of what would happen in the garage if there was a crucible failure in the oven or while the crucible was being carried to the back yard. Maybe it would be best to stick with making patterns and farm out the rest of the process.

Earlier there was a post in which someone asked about buying pieces of wrought material to machine parts instead of casting. While NZ seems to have better access to foundries, here in the US we seem to do better on the availability of large offcuts at reasonable prices. I just bought two pieces of 6061-T651, 3.5" x 12" x 12" off of eBay for US$160 each, including shipping to me. Since I have a CNC mill and do a 3D model anyway it makes machining a one-off vertically-split crankcase look more economical than dealing with a foundry.

cheers,
Michael

Michael someone in the US is doing some DG I think heads MR Wobb;y here in NZ had one. (Oh it was Webco)
I guess what you want looks like one of these though. Click on the arrow after the user name to follow the link

There is a tiny bit of gold buried in here, can you find it Rob...





That air cooled would have blown to pieces even on Methanol with that sort of com - insane.
I mentioned awhile ago a project I was doing for the Webco type RD series of heads, 250,350,400
The prototype has just been cut on the CNC, so I could be able to supply blanks, or a special design with precut toroidal chamber, quite soon.


That air cooled would have blown to pieces even on Methanol with that sort of com - insane.
I mentioned awhile ago a project I was doing for the Webco type RD series of heads, 250,350,400
The prototype has just been cut on the CNC, so I could be able to supply blanks, or a special design with precut toroidal chamber, quite soon.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=299353&d=1405899033


That air cooled would have blown to pieces even on Methanol with that sort of com - insane.
I mentioned awhile ago a project I was doing for the Webco type RD series of heads, 250,350,400
The prototype has just been cut on the CNC, so I could be able to supply blanks, or a special design with precut toroidal chamber, quite soon.




Ha Ha, amazing - guess who just got the job to do the solid modelling for CNC machining new replica head chamber shapes made on the Webco dies.

[Michael Moore]

Since I only found the forum yesterday I've not gotten anywhere near that part of the ESE thread yet but I'm working on it!

I was able to get a Webco head for my CT-1 VRR project but I've got to pull the helicoils out and weld up the spark/compression release holes and the chamber so it can be redone. One of my friends would like a Webco head for his DT-1. Milling deep and moderately close-spaced fins is not something I want to do unless it is a parallel fin head (like the CT-1) and I can find an affordable large OD (about 8-9") cutter, and even then I'd prefer to not have to do that. Having new castings done seems like a much better plan.

cheers,
Michael

[Grumph]

Michael - a large dia, thin cutter is the least of your problems - HSS skillsaw blade works on alloy just great. Replacements are cheap too...Even available with carbide tips attatched.

Peter Jones of ChCh NZ - Oyster on here - has made replacement barrels for a very unusual Kiwi special he rescued which uses a chainsaw based twin 2T motor. The finning was cut with i believe a slightly modified skillsaw...For gaps wider than one blade thickness, simply gang one or two more blades.

[husaberg]

Michael - a large dia, thin cutter is the least of your problems - HSS skillsaw blade works on alloy just great. Replacements are cheap too...Even available with carbide tips attatched.

Peter Jones of ChCh NZ - Oyster on here - has made replacement barrels for a very unusual Kiwi special he rescued which uses a chainsaw based twin 2T motor. The finning was cut with i believe a slightly modified skillsaw...For gaps wider than one blade thickness, simply gang one or two more blades.


i had posted this before.
The Begg workshop was obviously a hot bed of special building.
Gee that took some finding.............I not kidding that was like 15 minutes gone forever.........
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/86554-ESE-s-works-engine-tuner/page638?p=1130433397#post1130433397

[TZ350]

HSS skillsaw blade works on alloy just great. Replacements are cheap too...Even available with carbide tips attatched.

Here you go......




304307

Needed to trim the cylinder head heat sink, I don't have a mill so got the trusty old skill saw out.

304308 304309

[Flettner]

Here are some copy cast heads. Just filled up the original holes in the head and cleaned between the fins with fine wet and dry paper. It's even got made in Japan replicated on the heads. These were cast in CO2 core sand, pattern pushed into the sand, wriggled the head pattern around a little, hardened the sand and out came the original head pattern leaving a cavity ready to accept hot metal.

[Michael Moore]

I think we'd probably want to do a proper pattern and add on the fins that were trimmed off for up-pipes. Plus, the foundry personnel wouldn't have to try and expand the mold by wiggling the head but would just ram up and withdraw the pattern as they usually do. I like to reduce the places where error can creep in, since Mr. Murphy can mess with even a perfect set up. And if Mr. Murphy isn't around I can sometimes manage to screw up without his help.

I've attached a photo of the underside of the head. It would be good to have the gasket surface larger so one casting could have enough material to fit different engines with some small variation in stud spacing. That could be done with the underside fins and a larger center boss which I guess might mean a two-part pattern, or the bottom could be made thick and flat and the short fins could be milled in when the combustion chamber was cut.

Would having a thick section like that across the head cause problems? I've read that ideally cross-sections should be kept as even as possible. Would that thick version need to be scaled up a little more because it would be more prone to shrinking than one with a small chamber boss?

I'd also appreciate advice on what shrink allowances to use for things like this head, and if different, crankcases like the YZ in the video. Material would be A356, comparable to LM25 or your 601 (I think that is the correct designation). 8-12% seem pretty common and I suppose it wouldn't hurt to make the pattern to the larger end of the range on a cylinder head that isn't as critical on the final dimensions as a crankcase would be. 4% difference on a 12" long crankcase seems like it would make for patterns that were significantly different in size.

On the heads you did was the sprue gated into the thick pad at the mold split in one place or would several gates be better? What about risers - one right in the middle of the chamber area or several? Would the gating be different if the underside fins were cast in so there wasn't a thick section near the edges? I'm wondering if the Webco head had a gate coming into the side where you can see the thick polished section in the side view photo.

You can see that the OEM Yamaha MX175 head had a big pad next to the gasket surface which I'm thinking might have been used for a riser though they probably have much more freedom on the feed system in a die casting.

I know that the carbide table saws can cut aluminum (with great noise) but I think that by the time I had them modified for a corner or full radius I'd be better off getting a large OD side cutter of an appropriate thickness off of eBay and then have the radii added if I was only able to find a square-tooth cutter. The square tooth side cutters are not uncommon even in 8" diameter which should allow a 3" deep cut. I'd want a good radius at the base of the fins.

cheers,
Michael

[Flettner]

Generally speaking, thinner sections to the bottom and thicker sections to the top with the riser running out of the thickest part. As the part cools there is a "freeze line" running up the component, as each part below freezes off it draws molten metal in from above. Finally the freeze line runs up the riser ( sometimes called the feeder ). All shrinkage should end up in the riser. Yes, my feeder ran off the thickest section, the soild combustion chamber. Runner ( inlet ) ran off the side of the head at the part line, usually quite thin.

[Michael Moore]

Thanks for the info. Deep thin fins look hard to keep from having flaws, but maybe it isn't such a problematic area. My mental impression of the molten metal is like a weld or brazing puddle since that is what I'm familiar with, but the videos show something that is much more fluid than that. I guess if the molten aluminum can run like water and not warm treacle then it has a good chance of completely filling the fins before they start to solidify. And since aluminum is heavier than water it may help it to push all the way to the bottom/tip of the fin quickly.

I haven't gone back to watch the videos again, but I think on the YZ case your pattern incorporated the gates which seems like a good idea to help avoid bits of loose sand from cutting the gates with a spoon.

I've got a number of books on casting and pattern making but it sounds like designing the gates and risers is not always something that can be "cookbooked" with an assurance of a perfect part the first time.

Interesting stuff!

cheers,
Michael

[Michael Moore]

Do the air set/no bake and CO2 moulding sands allow use of less draft than green sand?

I drew up the Webco head and the long (2 1/4") upper fins have about 1.25-1.5 degrees of draft, while the short fins on the underside of the head are about 5 degrees. I'd thought that 5-7 degrees was pretty common, but I found a reference saying 1/8"/12" could be used, though it didn't specify which type of sand that was for.

I suspect the Webco heads were sand cast, though I've never seen mention of what process was used.

cheers,
Michael

[WilDun]

FLETTNER,
I'm impressed with how those Co2 head castings came out, guess the draught/draft?? (or whatever :confused:) wouldn't really have come into the equation in this case, (enough clearance being created by the wriggling action maybe ?) I wouldn't have believed that was possible, so now maybe I should review my options!
BTW, when did you cast those?

[Flettner]

No, you still need taper and the fins need to be smooth with no undercuts. I used CO2 sand for these heads, about two years ago.
I'm sorry if I've been a little quiet on the pattern making front, I've been off most weekends riding, VMX and trail rides. This weekend is the Acerbis four hour ( Meagan and I as a team ) then no more motorbikes until next year. I think no more Kawasaki at all, it's just too hard on me, I can't walk for a week after riding it! This weekend gone I rode the Kawasaki, VMX, a sod of dirt flicked up and turned the ignition off, it stopped! My hip is so bad now I can't start it ( compression is high for the ethanol ). Thats when I decided I'm just too old for this shit, I give in.

[F5 Dave]

Time to build another Bucket?

[WilDun]

Guess buckets are a lot of fun, but there comes a time, as in my case ( not suggesting that you guys are in my age group you understand) when you have to toss up between whether you want to be pushing yourself round in a wheelchair all pissed off and grumpy or getting on with your experimenting in the workshop while the brain is still fully operational!
I know what it's like just falling over at my age, compared to falling off a bike at high speed in my twenties - much easier and safer doing that back then I must say! :crazy:

[WilDun]

Anyway, seeing as there's a lull, here's where I am at the moment with my endeavour.......
The furnace still needs a few things done and the weather needs to be better on the days when i am able to fit it in!

i have been playing around with machinable wax (no ill effects from my little fiery incident) and feel that I have hit the jackpot today with a very strong wax which machines beautifully,Recipe still secret as yet though - I'm damned if I can remember the exact recipie (a bit of this and a bit of that and she'll be right I guess) - it' still there in my head somewhere I know and no doubt will come back to me when I do another batch!

Possible problem is expansion in the mould (cracking) - it seems that at meltout, the wax can expand beforei it melts and runs out, also shrinkage of the wax will possibly be an issue, ie if casting the pattern in wax rather than machining it but as we know, there is always a way round every problem!

304769304770304771304772

The wax in the pictures, even though they machine perfectly look like they need another melt down and a good stir up.

AND don't ask me how I got those pictures on, i can't remember!

[husaberg]

Anyway, seeing as there's a lull, here's where I am at the moment with my endeavour.......
The furnace still needs a few things done and the weather needs to be better on the days when i am able to fit it in!

i have been playing around with machinable wax (no ill effects from my little fiery incident) and feel that I have hit the jackpot today with a very strong wax which machines beautifully,Recipe still secret as yet though - I'm damned if I can remember the exact recipie (a bit of this and a bit of that and she'll be right I guess) - it' still there in my head somewhere I know and no doubt will come back to me when I do another batch!

Possible problem is expansion in the mould (cracking) - it seems that at meltout, the wax can expand beforei it melts and runs out, also shrinkage of the wax will possibly be an issue, ie if casting the pattern in wax rather than machining it but as we know, there is always away round every problem!


The wax in the pictures, even though they machine perfectly look like they need another melt down and a good stirr up.

AND don't ask me how I got those pictures on, i can't remember!

Wil, when you are whipping up your next batch try having your plastic ground into small pieces.
Only reason I say this is when they are recycling plastic to use, say for drums or polypipe they use fine ground material.
You could try the Wifes food processor (when she is out of course)

[WilDun]

Wil, when you are whipping up your next batch try having your plastic ground into small pieces.
Only reason I say this is when they are recycling plastic to use, say for drums or polypipe they use fine ground material.
You could try the Wifes food processor (when she is out of course)

Yeah, tried the food processor - that useless thing won't even start to chop plastic -waste of time!
Doesn't matter how fine it is really, it will all clump together on the bottom and stirring seems to be the only way, but it works ...... eventually.
The wooden spoon can also be used for disciplining kids ... shhh! don't tell anyone!
A new "secret" ingredient which I discovered at my grandson's school ( grandparent's day) actually seems to be a quantum leap in the right direction, doing tests at the moment! ;)

[Yow Ling]

Is the secret ingredient when your false teeth fell into the mix ?

Your furnace looks like a bought one, you should be well pleased with that.

PM me your address and Ill send you some "stuff"

[Grumph]

A new "secret" ingredient which I discovered at my grandson's school ( grandparent's day) actually seems to be a quantum leap in the right direction, doing tests at the moment! ;)

Playdough ?

[husaberg]

sand from the pit?

[WilDun]

sand from the pit?

Nope, all wrong,
I may disclose it one day but it'll have to remain secret till I'm certain the foundry supply people aren't going to hunt me down!

Thanks YL, as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating! - I'll send a PM.

[WilDun]

This video is a must if you're a little nervous about melting metal (I'm not sure I believe it!).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kho0iVN0wg

[Flettner]

Try that with aluminium.

[WilDun]

Try that with aluminium.

To be honest, I wouldn't be game to try it with anything!

[husaberg]

Try that with aluminium.

You still got the sheep on fire video Neil? was it at the start of the thread or just pics.....

[Flettner]

No, never was a video just an illuminating story. Molten aluminium and water will explode, just try it and see for yourself. The reaction makes hydrogen and oxxgen, quite unstable I think.
Right, no more motorcycles for a while, just finished the Acerbis four hour and may be a little incapacitated for a while. Crashed just 20 meters from the finish, a highside, ( after four hours ), I did get up and finish but the crash certainly hasn't helped ones mobility.

[WilDun]

No, never was a video just an illuminating story. Molten aluminium and water will explode, just try it and see for yourself. The reaction makes hydrogen and oxxgen, quite unstable I think.
Right, no more motorcycles for a while, just finished the Acerbis four hour and may be a little incapacitated for a while. Crashed just 20 meters from the finish, a highside, ( after four hours ), I did get up and finish but the crash certainly hasn't helped ones mobility.

Yeah, it's all good fun in your twenties but later on it becomes harder to pick yourself up, (ie you go "splat" instead of "boing boing").
Seems to me that quite a few guys in these threads have found that! - time to preserve yourself and keep up the sterling work in the shop!
As for putting water anywhere near molten metal - no thanks, (chemical reaction or not!). :eek5:

[husaberg]

Yeah, it's all good fun in your twenties but later on it becomes harder to pick yourself up, (ie you go "splat" instead of "boing boing").
Seems to me that quite a few guys in these threads have found that! - time to preserve yourself and keep up the sterling work in the shop!
As for putting water anywhere near molten metal - no thanks, (chemical reaction or not!). :eek5:

I have seen something pretty cool with super hot molten stuff and a hand dipped in water and it not burning the hand can't rememr exactly what it was.but i guess it works like the fire walking, Anyway not that keen to try and happy to learn from others mistakes rather than reapeating them and expecting a different outcome........
When i get home i will post a pic for Neil to look over.......

The rear of the gearbox casting are they a form on internal gates?
it is likely diecast of course......
305054

[WilDun]

Molten aluminium and water will explode, just try it and see for yourself. The reaction makes hydrogen and oxxgen, quite unstable I think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qJzDYsQfck

Now I don't quite know that to think (except that I'm not going to try it!) :confused:

Seems it does produce hydrogen for sure, but then in certain situations it also seems the water may never touch the actual molten metal, because of a strong barrier set up by aluminium oxide forming on the outside of the molten metal. (guess that's also the reason why ally is difficult to gas weld).
Those guys, if they weren't sure what would happen, were taking a big risk really wouldn't you say?!

[ken seeber]

Our experiences with hot metal and water:

1. The ladle was sprayed with dycoat, which was thinned with water. This had not dried completely, particularly at the very bottom of the ladle. I'll say unknowingly. This was then immersed into the molten aluminium in the crucible. Reasonably spectacular results when the moisture flashed to steam, spraying liquid Al all around the foundry room.. No-one injured, but a good lesson. Make sure everything is thoroughly dried (ie even above 100 deg C for a bit) before immersing it into molten metal.

2. Molten metal into water, a different story. From the ladle, we poured small amounts of metal into a bucket of water. Nothing dramatic, just a bit of fizzing. However, the product was pretty neat, thin randomly formed shells of metal....almost an art form. See pic.

Ladles. When we pour pistons, we start with a full crucible (A150 size) and then ladle it out, a piston at a time, until the crucible is near empty. To accommodate the varying depth of metal, we made an articulated ladle. The 2 pics show this in the two extreme positions. It is actuated by the left hand sliding an outer sleeve over the main rod/handle. It is quite natural and easy to use.

No charge fellas !

[Flettner]

Well, second part to the " don't use that bloody furnace again " was we had an explosion while tipping excess alloy into a pot on the ground. There was a little dampness in the pot. NEVER tip molten alloy into a wet pot!!! The alloy went straight up into the air, must have gone quite high as it took a while to rain down again. My mate ran into the shed while I ran out into the paddock ( being NZ it was with the sheep ) > The alloy was still quite hot and I got burnt in the hair and down one boot. Unfortunately the wife saw it all and along with the crack in the crucible that was the end of that!! No sheep caught fire.

Here it is, off twostrokeMX.com

[WilDun]

It looks like the jury has returned with a guilty verdict on moisture with molten ally - guess I'll be pretty cautious about it all now after hearing all that!
I keep saying that I won't ever take any risks but, there was the little incident with the wax a couple of weeks ago and tonight my jersey got caught in the leadscrew of my little lathe and had me just about kissing the bed before I managed to switch it off (wool is stronger than I thought!).
STILL HAVEN'T LEARNT even after years and years of operating these things!!

FLETTNER, will look forward to the link you talked about (probably a lesson in it for me). - How's the old body holding up?

KEN, I'm impressed with the ladle you made, I was thinking I might be able to work out a similar system which could be applied to tongs for a small crucible such as the one I'm going to use for one off jobs. (think it's 6" dia) - then I'd only need one set of tongs for the whole operation.
Might give that some thought tomorrow.

[Michael Moore]

I just got a copy of this non-ferrous foundry practices manual and put it on my website here:

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/metalwork/Foseco-Non-Ferrous-Foundry-Man.pdf

It is about a 2.8mb download and it looks to have a wealth of information.

cheers,
Michael

[WilDun]

I just got a copy of this non-ferrous foundry practices manual and put it on my website here:

http://www.eurospares.com/graphics/metalwork/Foseco-Non-Ferrous-Foundry-Man.pdf

It is about a 2.8mb download and it looks to have a wealth of information.

cheers,
Michael

Thanks Mike, that's really good of you!
I tried to download that one a while ago but had some trouble with the download (can't remember what) and left it.
Now there's no problem and as you say, there is definitely a mine of info in it.
I believe there is also a ferrous handbook downloadable from FOSECO, but I won't be needing it.

[Flettner]

Nothing happening?
I've gone off on a tangent and am finnishing off my autogyro, but will get back to patterns soon.

[WilDun]

Nothing happening?
I've gone off on a tangent and am finnishing off my autogyro, but will get back to patterns soon.

Not a lot been happening here (grandchildren duties) but doing a little when I can, got what seems to be an acceptable machinable wax product now, time will tell. The wax thing is just something to prevent me having to do the harder stuff associated with the furnace I guess!
I have always had at least two or three projects going on in my head (as opposed to my hands) and the older I get the more this happens, need to concentrate on one thing! (but talking to myself is like talking to a brick wall).

I think YL has got on to other things as well or maybe he's concentrating on getting the bucket running ok. or ...... got the 'look' regarding the foundry, (as you do),
Fact is, not a lot of people are deeply interested in foundry work, - some like me are extremely interested but haven't been flushed with success in this area so far.

Thanks for all the help and guidance and keeping this thing going, we appreciate this even if we don't always follow your instructions to a tee :niceone:
You still going to use the flat four in the autogyro?

Sorry, I talk too much and don't do enough! :rolleyes:

[Yow Ling]

I get more distracted than a fish,Ive been tidying my bucket up for King of Ruapuna this weekend, everyone keeps telling me my bucket looks like a heap of shit. I lent it to Dennis Charlett for the Greymouth srteet race and it came back clean as a whistle, probably worth 3hp

Then while I was in the right mood , I gave my RD350 a bit of a birthday couple of new plugs , balance carbs , tidy up the ugly wiring,

Moved on to the tZ250, fitted egt, drain oil, fit new brake master, and some other stuff.

The foundry stuff had to take a back seat

305548

[WilDun]

YL, Bike looking good, you've got 3? - no wonder no foundry work!

Was wishing I could go back and really get into road racing, but that's a long forgotten dream, wouldn't even dare to throw a leg over a racer now!
The Moto 3 final races really got me going again, it's all or nothing with them, great stuff, even if they are four strokes!
Our Aussie mate, Miller will be a formidable guy in future in Moto GP. I would say, maybe not next year but the next one I should think. Reckon he might give even Marquez (Mark) a run for his money!

Furnace should be getting fired up one of these days (as always) :rolleyes:

[F5 Dave]

Three? -Ha. If he was married it would be like yeah sure dear, there's only Three bikes in the shed. I've painted a couple.:lol:

[mr bucketracer]

think mr low would have 20+ bikes

[WilDun]

think mr low would have 20+ bikes

I had 20+ bikes too, but never more than two or three at the one time! - however I still get "the look" concerning the state of my garage, but I've never been completely reduced to the "sure dear or yes dear" thing (and never will!) - well, probably never will, :rolleyes:

[ken seeber]

Here's an interesting link, obviously high production rate vs a splash of hot metal in the backyard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhtI02aHSnI

And WilDun, here's one just for you:

305566

Ken

[Flettner]

You still going to use the flat four in the autogyro?


I know this is not buckets or foundry but here is a picture of what I've been working on, the new pre rotator drive. No I did not use the small engine in the end, this just seemed simpler. Cone clutch drive runs off the ballance shaft, driven by a belt drive that is the same ratio as the reduction gearbox. So one to one in the opposite direction to the crankshaft. Then small universal through a sliding spline up to the rotor head bendix. Disengaged while in flight,

[Yow Ling]

I know this is not buckets or foundry but here is a picture of what I've been working on, the new pre rotator drive. No I did not use the small engine in the end, this just seemed simpler. Cone clutch drive runs off the ballance shaft, driven by a belt drive that is the same ratio as the reduction gearbox. So one to one in the opposite direction to the crankshaft. Then small universal through a sliding spline up to the rotor head bendix. Disengaged while in flight,

Pretty elegant afterthought. Just out of interest , I saw one of yout gyro's on trade me with a subaru motor, how many have your 2 strokes and how many have subarus? It looks like it would be way harder to add a prerotator to a subaru. Would a flat motor like a fisher and paykel washing machine do this job ? just easier to run some cables than a pto shaft, could rewind it for 12v, Im starting to sound like TZ350 I think

[F5 Dave]

Here's an interesting link, obviously high production rate vs a splash of hot metal in the backyard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhtI02aHSnI

And WilDun, here's one just for you:

305566

Ken Funny Ken i`m reading this while watching Charlie Brown's Christmas. no really i am.

[F5 Dave]

Here's an interesting link, obviously high production rate vs a splash of hot metal in the backyard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhtI02aHSnI

And WilDun, here's one just for you:

305566

Ken Funny Ken i`m reading this while watching Charlie Brown's Christmas. no really i am.


I
instantly saw what I thought was a gas gas cylinder. They (S3) make heads of different sizes, but they all have stupid squish clearances.
I

[WilDun]

Here's an interesting link, obviously high production rate vs a splash of hot metal in the backyard:
And WilDun, here's one just for you:


KEN
Exactly the setup I'm aiming for! - wonder how much that's going to cost me to set up .:rolleyes:

Looked at all the tong and ladle ideas, including your ladle, but no need for me to complicate anything I just need something basic.

BTW, I talk to myself too (and often get a favourable response), I live in my own little world but that's ok. cos everybody knows and understands me there!
:laugh:

FLETTNER
I was just wondering if you still use the SUB 4 engine or are you totally sold on the two stroke now? but it looks like you answered the question in the photos.
Has it been flown yet? - guess you'll be the test pilot too? - Pity about not needing the new small engine, guess you'll find a niche for it somewhere.

[Flettner]

Pretty elegant afterthought. Just out of interest , I saw one of yout gyro's on trade me with a subaru motor, how many have your 2 strokes and how many have subarus? It looks like it would be way harder to add a prerotator to a subaru. Would a flat motor like a fisher and paykel washing machine do this job ? just easier to run some cables than a pto shaft, could rewind it for 12v, Im starting to sound like TZ350 I think

Yes there are more electric pre rotators around now, you need about 6 / 8HP for a single seat gyro pre rotator ( to do the job properly ) and there needs to be a soft start or you will bust somthing ( rotorhead ). Here is a good mechanical pre rotator drive getting a good workout. Turbo SUB4 engine, rotor rpm is approx 300 not 220.
Electric needs a decent battery and / or a decent charging system, if you are going to use it a lot.

http://youtu.be/2UPPSyf5QAU

[Flettner]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_0849_zpsca9d7448.jpghttp://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_0848_zpsff97e4e3.jpg

Forget gyro's for now. What's wrong with this as a concept? Ball valve, uses a piston type ring to seal ( curved sealing surface ) ball sits on bearings, hollow, internally cooled, occilates so the ring gap never goes over the port also gives dwell at open and shut. I have shown this picture here before. This unit would be no good as it's just aluminium and would probably expand and seize perhaps. Tell me why it won't work with maybe a ceramic port liner?
Ring should work just like it would in a cylinder?
I am talking about using it as an exhaust valve in a twostroke head.

[WilDun]

What's wrong with this as a concept?
I am talking about using it as an exhaust valve in a twostroke head.

I am possibly wrong here but I'll take my chances of being ostracised or at least getting egg on my face! :laugh: :-
Surely, to oscillate something of that size and bulk at crank speeds would take quite a lot of power and some hefty actuating gear to operate it, especially if it's heavier than ally - I don't know what sort of gear you had in mind! (cranks? cams? maybe).

At one time I tried to design something similar (in my innocence at around seventeen) with two oscillating tubes operated on alternate strokes by pushrods from a half speed camshaft, but then I didn't have any engineering equipment or engineering expertise, so never came to anything.

I always felt that the Geneva wheel had some potential here, the experts and detractors say it won't work,- anyway, yes with modern day ceramics anything seems possible.

Suck it and see is my thought!

[Flettner]

I am possibly wrong here but I'll take my chances of being ostracised or at least getting egg on my face! :laugh: :-
Surely, to oscillate something of that size and bulk at crank speeds would take quite a lot of power and some hefty actuating gear to operate it, especially if it's heavier than ally - I don't know what sort of gear you had in mind! (cranks? cams? maybe).

At one time I tried to design something similar (in my innocence at around seventeen) with two oscillating tubes operated on alternate strokes by pushrods from a half speed camshaft, but then I didn't have any engineering equipment or engineering expertise, so never came to anything.

I always felt that the Geneva wheel had some potential here, the experts and detractors say it won't work,- anyway, yes with modern day ceramics anything seems possible.

Suck it and see is my thought!

Yes, occilating something like this will take power to accelerate but then give it back as it deccelerates maybe? Just bearing friction to worry about?
"Experts", I was told that my uniflow would not last 30 seconds without burning / melting the exhaust ( aluminium ) piston. These experts were from a well regarded university too. So I can only imagine I'm in fairy land with the Uniflow 440 ( in the jet boat ) running at full throttle until the fuel runs out. Perhaps they were right, perhaps it never happened. They had not counted on what I had up my sleeve as to piston cooling. Anyway, forget the experts, I want real world comments. Show me where it's been done ( ball valve in a twostroke head ) and failed and why, because there will be a way around the problem I'm sure.
Ceramic, thats what my new hip is going to be made of, ceramic on ceramic ball ( but no ports cut into it :laugh:). Apparetly they are looking at a 25 year wear life. Apparetly wont crack too, so I'm alowd back on the motorbike:third: Just sign this disclaimer.

[WilDun]

Yes, occilating something like this will take power to accelerate but then give it back as it deccelerates maybe? Just bearing friction to worry about?


Like I say, suck it and see,but I'm a great believer in continuously rotating (one kind of rotary engine or another) etc. - this stopping and starting business is something that needs to be overcome! turbines are the way to go on aircraft -but the throttle lag stops them being used on anything else except as generators on hybrid setups - just my opinion :bleh:
No, I can't find any memories of ball valve exhausts in two strokes, but I do remember a couple of Aussie guys experimenting with a similar arrangement (but rotating) around 35 odd years ago on a Honda 100, but it quietly departed the scene after a year or so, however, if you could find this you might be interested, they must have gathered some good info in the process!
Don't think i've got it in my old scrapbooks, but maybe Husa has the photos somewhere!

[Flettner]

Yes Husaberg will find it.
Will the ring suffer gas sealing issues as the ring is being pushed to opposite sides of the ring groove as the ball moves? Or will the gas pressure overcome this as the ball slows to a stop?

[F5 Dave]

What were Lotus doing? hold on I must mean Cosworth. .

[WilDun]

Will the ring suffer gas sealing issues as the ring is being pushed to opposite sides of the ring groove as the ball moves? Or will the gas pressure overcome this as the ball slows to a stop?

I dunno, but I say that so long as the pressure is undernearh the ring at the critical moment that it will force it upward. (downward? - whatever) Reckon it might be better if the ring could rotate in the groove, - (I guess).
Trouble is as I see it, with this scheme the valve is being accelerated and decelerated and brought to a halt twice per crank revolution and at around 10 - 12 thousand rpm .......... well! depends on whether its for racing or something else more sedate.

[Grumph]

Over the years there's been a heap of rotary valve 4 strokes, from Aspin on. All shapes, journal type to cone shaped. Don't ever remember reading about a ball shape.
4 stroke can be quite easy as it's at 1/2 engine speed...2T would be somewhat harder.
Personally, I'd stay away from oscillating valves, it's easier to keep something moving, even against combustion pressure than start it against the same pressure.
Wouldn't surprise me if someone does bring back the 4T rotary valve - but as has been suggested, in ceramics.

[WilDun]

As an aside, the scientists and aviation experts of the day (in America) said that the model A Ford engine would not be any use in an aircraft.
Then Pietenpol built his Aircamper homebuilt using a model A and it flew well. (and it's still being built and flown today).
When Pietenpol was asked by the press about the expert opinions, he said that if he had only been told that it was impossible, he would never have built it!

[Flettner]

As an aside, the scientists and aviation experts of the day (in America) said that the model A Ford engine would not be any use in an aircraft.
Then Pientpol built his Aircamper homebuilt using a model A and it flew well. (and it's still being built and flown today).
When Pietenpol was asked by the press about the expert opinions he said that if he had only been told that it was impossible, he would never have built it!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Flettner]

Pistons stop and start twice per crank rev.

[Yow Ling]

if you ceramic coated the bore of the valve so there was less heat transfer to the ball that might help at the cost of heating the return pulse, could you put water passages in the ball ? where would the gesparking plug live?

Anything is possible, can even put metal in the microwave these days

[WilDun]

Pistons stop and start twice per crank rev.

Yes isn't that enough?!!!

Have a good look at the old LeRhone WW1 rotary radial in which the crank stayed still and the cylinders rotated - you immediately think of pistons accelerating, decelerating and stopping, - NOT SO , if you trace the paths of each individual component you will see that they all move in a circular path (but on different axes) and the only reciprocation taking place is "relative reciprocation", ie relative to each other. only problem with this system, the exhaust sprays its contents everywhere including castor oil! and of course there's the flywheel effect! - can't have everything I guess!

[WilDun]

Wait a minute! this is the foundry thread - isn't it? :confused:
Got to head off, going away till sometime tomorrow, good discussion!

[Flettner]

if you ceramic coated the bore of the valve so there was less heat transfer to the ball that might help at the cost of heating the return pulse, could you put water passages in the ball ? where would the gesparking plug live?

Anything is possible, can even put metal in the microwave these days

The valve is hollow, for cooling fluid to run through , perhaps I just try it and see. Best to cast a valve in LM13 I think to minimise expansion.

[husaberg]

Over the years there's been a heap of rotary valve 4 strokes, from Aspin on. All shapes, journal type to cone shaped. Don't ever remember reading about a ball shape.
4 stroke can be quite easy as it's at 1/2 engine speed...2T would be somewhat harder.
Personally, I'd stay away from oscillating valves, it's easier to keep something moving, even against combustion pressure than start it against the same pressure.
Wouldn't surprise me if someone does bring back the 4T rotary valve - but as has been suggested, in ceramics.

Aussie bloke did a Round ball with piston rings in the 70's I have the article here somewhere.
went fine I guess he had the same problem as the rest lubrication or smoke but not one without the other.
He converted a Honda single and an old brit banger. Could run very high comp ratio. I think it was meant to be very quite with is counter intuitive....... faded away.....

[husaberg]

Yes Husaberg will find it.
Will the ring suffer gas sealing issues as the ring is being pushed to opposite sides of the ring groove as the ball moves? Or will the gas pressure overcome this as the ball slows to a stop?


Like I say, suck it and see,but I'm a great believer in continuously rotating (one kind of rotary engine or another) etc. - this stopping and starting business is something that needs to be overcome! turbines are the way to go on aircraft -but the throttle lag stops them being used on anything else except as generators on hybrid setups - just my opinion :bleh:
No, I can't find any memories of ball valve exhausts in two strokes, but I do remember a couple of Aussie guys experimenting with a similar arrangement (but rotating) around 35 odd years ago on a Honda 100, but it quietly departed the scene after a year or so, however, if you could find this you might be interested, they must have gathered some good info in the process!
Don't think i've got it in my old scrapbooks, but maybe Husa has the photos somewhere!


I started on the last page. so I am type cast.
It is an a two wheels mag.(pretty sure)

[Flettner]

if you ceramic coated the bore of the valve so there was less heat transfer to the ball that might help at the cost of heating the return pulse, could you put water passages in the ball ? where would the gesparking plug live?

Anything is possible, can even put metal in the microwave these days

Spark plug could be inset into the ball ( surface fire type as I'm using in my F9 Kawasaki ), then it would appear in the centre of the chamber and by way of the ball shape be near to the piston, a bit like the toridal (?) type head.
Imagine having a clean cylinder with just transfer ports, exhaust out through the head, uniflow scavenge. And no bloody valve heads in the way!

[husaberg]

Spark plug could be inset into the ball ( surface fire type as I'm using in my F9 Kawasaki ), then it would appear in the centre of the chamber and by way of the ball shape be near to the piston, a bit like the toridal (?) type head.
Imagine having a clean cylinder with just transfer ports, exhaust out through the head, uniflow scavenge. And no bloody valve heads in the way!

Can't find article but here it is anyway
http://79x100.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/deane-rotary-valve-prototype.html

305599



I have posted this before its been nearly ready since the early 90's





http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2007/12/coates-spherical-rotary-valve-system-let-the-rivet-counting-begin/

[Flettner]

Can't find article but here it is anyway
http://79x100.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/deane-rotary-valve-prototype.html

Thank you, you should not be allowed to leave the country, you are a national treasure sir!

[husaberg]

Thank you, you should not be allowed to leave the country, you are a national treasure sir!
Good to know I do have you uses.
I added the patent as well..in true anorak style, Funny enough there was talk of a court order to stop me entering some countries:no:

[Cheesy]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_0849_zpsca9d7448.jpghttp://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_0848_zpsff97e4e3.jpg

Forget gyro's for now. What's wrong with this as a concept? Ball valve, uses a piston type ring to seal ( curved sealing surface ) ball sits on bearings, hollow, internally cooled, occilates so the ring gap never goes over the port also gives dwell at open and shut. I have shown this picture here before. This unit would be no good as it's just aluminium and would probably expand and seize perhaps. Tell me why it won't work with maybe a ceramic port liner?
Ring should work just like it would in a cylinder?
I am talking about using it as an exhaust valve in a twostroke head.

How well does it have to seal?
If it was something I was doing I would be concerned with the strength of the "thin" side of the ring land. I also think that the surface the ring runs on will wear very quickly near the pivots where the ring velocity is low. And finally Im not sure how well it will seal, half of the ring will be pushed onto (maybe) the wrong ring land to seal combusion presure , ideally the actual ring profile will be a bit starnge.

Would it be possible to have a seal in the head with a wave spring under it ? maybe a carbon seal on a really hard ball

[husaberg]

Interesting links
http://myfoundrycoach.com/blog/?page_id=115
kiwi v twin
https://www.behance.net/gallery/3382691/The-V-Twin

[Bert]

kiwi v twin
https://www.behance.net/gallery/3382691/The-V-Twin

Auckland uni and there SAE projects are really producing some cool stuff.
Quite interesting the concept around CF as an option for crank cases...

Good find Husa :niceone:

[Grumph]

I can't open that link - normal for me - but it brought back to mind the pourable, castable,carbon fibre based bog that John Britten used for injector bodies. I had to machine up a couple of early ones using the original alloy ones as patterns. Weight was less than 1/3 the alloy ones... Machined quite well but left black shit everywhere. Took tapping well too although if you wanted a load bearing thread you'd be better off putting a decent metal insert in.

I was told at the time it was only a little less strong than untreated cast alloy.

Husa, can you use your powers for good (instead of finding porn...) and try and establish just what this stuff was please. There's no mention of it in the books on John.

Thanks

[husaberg]

I can't open that link - normal for me - but it brought back to mind the pourable, castable,carbon fibre based bog that John Britten used for injector bodies. I had to machine up a couple of early ones using the original alloy ones as patterns. Weight was less than 1/3 the alloy ones... Machined quite well but left black shit everywhere. Took tapping well too although if you wanted a load bearing thread you'd be better off putting a decent metal insert in.

I was told at the time it was only a little less strong than untreated cast alloy.

Husa, can you use your powers for good (instead of finding porn...) and try and establish just what this stuff was please. There's no mention of it in the books on John.

Thanks
Porn is good You old goat

An extension of the design of the engine was my Final Year Research Project titled Design, Analysis and Manufacture of a Carbon Fibre Composite Engine Crankcase.
Abstract:

This project investigates the use of Carbon Fibre Reinforced Plastic in an enginecrankcase for the University of Auckland Formula SAE Team. The engine forwhich this crankcase is being developed is a custom 500cc 4 stroke internalcombustion V-Twin engine. The use of CFRP can minimise the amount ofoutsourcing and cost required to manufacture their engines.
The three fundamental functions of this crankcase are to support the loadstransmitted through from the cylinder through the crankshaft to the gearboxduring engine operation and to contain oil.

The key issues that are unique to using CFRP to manufacture a crankcase are oilabsorption and high temperatures affecting the mechanical properties of thecomposite and the manufacturing of the component by a Formula SAE teammember with a limited skill set.

Tensile and short beam shear tests were conducted to show that the MTM28Carbon Fibre Prepreg that is available to the team is suitable for manufacturingthis component. A pullout test was conducted to show that CFRP with helicoilinserts can retain the thread of a highly loaded headbolt. Thermal expansionanalyses were conducted using Abaqus FEA software. The analysis shows thatCFRP can be used to manufacture bearing housings.

The proposed design concept simplifies the manufacturing process so that themajority of the component and its moulds can be manufactured in house by theaverage Formula SAE team member.

This is the prototype top half of the carbon fibre crankcase. This was manufactured in less time and for a lower cost than a CNC machined billet piece.
This project won an award from the Composites Association of New Zealand.

One thing not many people appreciate is carbon fibre plus alloy inserts equual electrolysis it needs to be anodised or be stainless or coated etc.
a purable product my money is own it being a DuPont product
in the Lionheart articles I have posted Ian Cramp mentions such a product but says it has to be diecast.
MCM ran a article on a plastic engine that had plastic cases etc even a plastic piston it was ceramic coated that was in about 1984...
You will have it in your mag collection, the cover was mainly yellow and I think it had a Norton ES2 on the cover of it as well.



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[ken seeber]

Neil's spherical exh valve.

There have been lots of attempts and I think the most successful being the Bishop system:

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhome.people.net.au%2F~mrbdesign%2 FPDF%2FAutoTechBRV.pdf&ei=I_BvVJnePKHmmAXyiYCQCw&usg=AFQjCNF-eAH0IfWotebyJY6qaD1PzKom0Q&bvm=bv.80185997,d.dGY

I have attached a rough sketch of my understanding of the proposal. Without trying to be a negative prick, to me there are issues:

1. Assuming it is spinning at half engine speed, the rate of exh opening might not favour the creation of a strong exhaust pulse
2. The piston would have more surface area, leading to excessive heat input
3. The scavenging of the piston bowl may be difficult

Materials. I believe the Bishop used some form of stainless valve, with the seal grid elements being stationary, presumably using a spark erosion process to manufacture the grooves within the "shadowed" valve bore in the head..

For me, I think the reverse is the way to go in some ways. http://www.pit-lane.biz/t5121p260-gp125-all-that-you-wanted-to-know-on-aprilia-rsa-125-and-more-by-mr-jan-thiel-and-mr-frits-overmars-part-4. Approx half way down.

In the end, all these things will only succeed with the drive of the inventor and his/her ability to overcome all the obstacles, despite comments from outsiders such as myself. However I reckon, if anyone can make a go of it, it is Neil. So best of luck and again, I just love your evolving of patterns, the castings and the machining.

Ken

[WilDun]

Just got back and have checked out all the developments of the last 24hrs on this thread - of course Husa has found some stuff, Grumph has contributed some interesting stuff in machining carbon fibre for Britten.

Ken, interesting stuff on the Bishop Valve, which, unless I'm much mistaken was taken from a much older and almost identical design, which I'll find after I rummage through my "archives".

Don't really want to get totally away from the original thread, but I'm going to try and post some pics of an interesting engine design of the late sixties also from my archives, (read grotty old scrapbook), this design apparently uses the same sealing method as you are proposing Neil. - of course the whole design is not a two stroke (or is it?).
I feel that the surface speeds at the sealing surfaces may be have been too high though, then again maybe not.
Obviously the design wasn't finalised and up and running, possibly not reaching the prototype stage.
Having had a quick look again, I can see that I hadn't sat down all those years ago and thought about the concept thoroughly enough to properly understand it !

[Flettner]

Ok then, what other systems for a valve in the head? NOT popet valves!

[Grumph]

Ok then, what other systems for a valve in the head? NOT popet valves!

Given what's now known about chamber shape and squish velocity - and that the squish needs to be symmetrical...I'm not sure there is a solution to putting an exhaust valve in the head.
I thought the sleeve valve was going to give you the right chamber shape plus rapid ex port opening ?

[Flettner]

Given what's now known about chamber shape and squish velocity - and that the squish needs to be symmetrical...I'm not sure there is a solution to putting an exhaust valve in the head.
I thought the sleeve valve was going to give you the right chamber shape plus rapid ex port opening ?

Yes, but I'm trying to think up other ideas to test as well.

[husaberg]

Ok then, what other systems for a valve in the head? NOT popet valves!

Remember the NZ dude had the funny engine he used to run on a vacum it was named after him why not build that?
I have scans with the plans of it pretty sure i do.
Pretty sure he never finished it it looked pretty cool actually.
it was a contra rotating true rotary if memory serves me, with two chambers at right angles.
it was don yeltman or something like that anyone?

[WilDun]

Ok then, what other systems for a valve in the head? NOT popet valves!

I believe that Piaggio (scooters) were experimenting with and may even have been producing a small piston/cylinder arrangement up top c/w exhaust ports only. which opened normally at BTD, ( much like your uniflow only with a much smaller cylinder & piston up top).
In one configuration this small cylinder was running at right angles to the main cylinder, supposedly to make it shorter.
Guess it was quite short stroke and probablythe exhaust ports were right round the bore.
Seems it worked well - might be able to find pics of it somewhere, I did find them a couple of years ago but they seem to have disappeared.

Another guy was experimenting with a small wankel rotor arrangement which he somehow got to work as an exhaust valve! - It may have been designed to run at one third crank speed too. However, I don't have any details, as it was quite a few years ago.

[WilDun]

I found the article on the scooter engine (it was Piaggio but actually called a VESPA ET2 circa 1997) - located it tucked away in a ring binder.
However, I'm afraid I got it a little bit wrong, :facepalm: - it seems that the small piston up top was actually used as a stratified charge pump which draws in a very rich fuel mixture and compresses it then squirts it into the cylinder, maybe similar to the Aussie 'Orbital' injector system, I dunno. The rest of the engine is a normal two stroke except that the scavenging air has no fuel in it when it comes from the transfers until it mixes with the rich pressurised mixture from above, ie when the ports have closed.

Sorry about that! - The subject is starting to wander from the original I know, but if you're still interested I'll scan the article and drawings and post them here..

[husaberg]

yeoman (dave) was the inventor I have found the drawings but can find nothing on the web
its a twin rotor design no cranks no pistons.

He was 82 in 1987 so I guess he is no longer with us.
It looks like it was never finished.
it would need some pretty tricky casting and machining <_<

The two Rotors are at 90 degrees from each other and as soon as I can figure out how to use the scanner I will post it.

[Grumph]

yeoman (dave) was the inventor I have found the drawings but can find nothing on the web
its a twin rotor design no cranks no pistons.

He was 82 in 1987 so I guess he is no longer with us.
It looks like it was never finished.
it would need some pretty tricky casting and machining <_<

The two Rotors are at 90 degrees from each other and as soon as I can figure out how to use the scanner I will post it.

Yeah, Dave's dead but his son is still around ChCh somewhere. I seem to remember him coming to see the old man with drawings back when i was living at home. The old B often got asked for opinions on oddball shit - AMIMechE and a long race history and the family habit of offering opinions on anything got us a lot of visitors...
Dave was a Scott fanatic so I'd expect anything he did to be odd....

[husaberg]

Yeah, Dave's dead but his son is still around ChCh somewhere. I seem to remember him coming to see the old man with drawings back when i was living at home. The old B often got asked for opinions on oddball shit - AMIMechE and a long race history and the family habit of offering opinions on anything got us a lot of visitors...
Dave was a Scott fanatic so I'd expect anything he did to be odd....

Lets see if this works......
305894
305895
305896
305893
Click on them a few times to supersize them.
Greg get a fast internet......

[WilDun]

Well HUSA, looks like you've really unearthed something here! - not sure exactly what, but hopefully we'll gradually get to understand it! Sorry for the guy who started it though, it looks like somebody will have to try to resurrect it before it disappears off the face of the earth,(GRUMPH?) - maybe consigned to the tip!

[Grumph]

Well HUSA, looks like you've really unearthed something here! - not sure exactly what, but hopefully we'll gradually get to understand it! Sorry for the guy who started it though, it looks like somebody will have to try to resurrect it before it disappears off the face of the earth,(GRUMPH?) - maybe consigned to the tip!

Don't look at me Will...The son, who's not young either, will probably give it to the local museum - if it survived the quakes.

[WilDun]

Don't look at me Will...The son, who's not young either, will probably give it to the local museum - if it survived the quakes.

Seen a lot of good stuff (which probably looked like junk to the average relative) sent to the tip, can't see my foundry stuff and my machinery managing to escape that either! - just hate to see how little many people care about the work of someone over a lifetime and all in the cause of being "seen to be" modern and tidy. :weep:

[F5 Dave]

Don't look at me Will...The son, who's not young either, will probably give it to the local museum - if it survived the quakes.
Ahh c`mon, young whippersnappers like you its all PlayStations and chasing girls.

[husaberg]

Just got back and have checked out all the developments of the last 24hrs on this thread - of course Husa has found some stuff, Grumph has contributed some interesting stuff in machining carbon fibre for Britten.

Ken, interesting stuff on the Bishop Valve, which, unless I'm much mistaken was taken from a much older and almost identical design, which I'll find after I rummage through my "archives".

Don't really want to get totally away from the original thread, but I'm going to try and post some pics of an interesting engine design of the late sixties also from my archives, (read grotty old scrapbook), this design apparently uses the same sealing method as you are proposing Neil. - of course the whole design is not a two stroke (or is it?).
I feel that the surface speeds at the sealing surfaces may be have been too high though, then again maybe not.
Obviously the design wasn't finalised and up and running, possibly not reaching the prototype stage.
Having had a quick look again, I can see that I hadn't sat down all those years ago and thought about the concept thoroughly enough to properly understand it !


Ok then, what other systems for a valve in the head? NOT popet valves!


Given what's now known about chamber shape and squish velocity - and that the squish needs to be symmetrical...I'm not sure there is a solution to putting an exhaust valve in the head.
I thought the sleeve valve was going to give you the right chamber shape plus rapid ex port opening ?


Yes, but I'm trying to think up other ideas to test as well.


How well does it have to seal?
If it was something I was doing I would be concerned with the strength of the "thin" side of the ring land. I also think that the surface the ring runs on will wear very quickly near the pivots where the ring velocity is low. And finally Im not sure how well it will seal, half of the ring will be pushed onto (maybe) the wrong ring land to seal combusion presure , ideally the actual ring profile will be a bit starnge.

Would it be possible to have a seal in the head with a wave spring under it ? maybe a carbon seal on a really hard ball


I dunno, but I say that so long as the pressure is undernearh the ring at the critical moment that it will force it upward. (downward? - whatever) Reckon it might be better if the ring could rotate in the groove, - (I guess).
Trouble is as I see it, with this scheme the valve is being accelerated and decelerated and brought to a halt twice per crank revolution and at around 10 - 12 thousand rpm .......... well! depends on whether its for racing or something else more sedate.


if you ceramic coated the bore of the valve so there was less heat transfer to the ball that might help at the cost of heating the return pulse, could you put water passages in the ball ? where would the gesparking plug live?

Anything is possible, can even put metal in the microwave these days


Aussie bloke did a Round ball with piston rings in the 70's I have the article here somewhere.
went fine I guess he had the same problem as the rest lubrication or smoke but not one without the other.
He converted a Honda single and an old brit banger. Could run very high comp ratio. I think it was meant to be very quiet which is counter intuitive....... faded away.....

and ten characters,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Flettner]

I hate Honda 100's, but thats a way cool one!
Mr Grumph / yow ling or others, do you know of a tube bender place in Chch that supplies exhaust stainless steel? 180 degree bends? 38mm outside. For a gyro exhaust I repairing for someone, turbo SUB4 engine. I'm running out of ideas.

[husaberg]

I hate Honda 100's, but thats a way cool one!
Mr Grumph / yow ling or others, do you know of a tube bender place in Chch that supplies exhaust stainless steel? 180 degree bends? 38mm outside. For a gyro exhaust I repairing for someone, turbo SUB4 engine. I'm running out of ideas.

I have seen stainless donuts on TM I think.
auckland
http://www.autobend.co.nz/tube_bending.html
chch
http://harrispipes.co.nz/history.html
I would have thought caldwells would have them but can't see them on the site?

Anyone who does cowsheds will have a source too

[Yow Ling]

this place is in wellington, http://www.ultibend.com stainless bends is their thing

actually its their 2nd biggest thing

[Grumph]

I have seen stainless donuts on TM I think.
auckland
http://www.autobend.co.nz/tube_bending.html
chch
http://harrispipes.co.nz/history.html
I would have thought caldwells would have them but can't see them on the site?

Anyone who does cowsheds will have a source too

I've had stainless pipes bent at Autobend - but i've had to supply the tube....Graeme at Motorcycle Exhausts who do all the Harris stuff may be a better bet if the Wgtn source doesn't pan out, I think Graeme carries some stainless.
trouble is the grade you need for ex pipes is pretty low...the good stuff stress cracks too quickly. i'd guess the cowshed tube is the better stainless as well as being thick wall.

[WilDun]

and ten characters,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yes, HUSA that's the one I was thinking of!!!! - was pretty sure you'd have it somewhere, what took you so long?

Of course in those days anybody who was anything worked wearing a white "technician's" coat, sometimes with a collar and tie too, probably talked in a posh accent for the TV as well! - at least that's what we were all expected to believe anyway!

[WilDun]

I hate Honda 100's, but thats a way cool one!
exhaust stainless steel? 180 degree bends? 38mm outside. turbo SUB4 engine. I'm running out of ideas.

I have 3 or 4 S/S bends somewhere in my workshop which I'll prob never use but don't hold your breath, I don't really know what size but could be somewhere round the size you want.
Will check it out tomorrow morning and let you know, they are 90 deg. but may still be of use to you.

[husaberg]

Yes, HUSA that's the one I was thinking of!!!! - was pretty sure you'd have it somewhere, what took you so long?



Windows 8.1 and the printer/scanner being no longer on the control panel anymore. That plus I had started to tidy the book collection, so it was kind of hidden on the floor of the office.

I will do the plastic engine tonight. (PEEK)

In the first paragraph or so it says the guy doesn't look like an engineer on account of his beard and glasses, i'm reading it and its like er.........that's what they do all look like.

I see they do some peek/carbon and ceramic composites now. might have been what John Britten had Greg

[Flettner]

Thank you, I'll try these contacts.

[WilDun]

FLETTNER,
Found 90deg (x6) bends, unfortunately turned out to be 50.8mm (2") OD. :facepalm:

[WilDun]

Ahh c`mon, young whippersnappers like you its all PlayStations and chasing girls.

We didn't need playstations (we had bikes) and the girls chased US! :rolleyes:

[Grumph]

Windows 8.1 and the printer/scanner being no longer on the control panel anymore. That plus I had started to tidy the book collection, so it was kind of hidden on the floor of the office.

I will do the plastic engine tonight. (PEEK)

In the first paragraph or so it says the guy doesn't look like an engineer on account of his beard and glasses, i'm reading it and its like er.........that's what they do all look like.

I see they do some peek/carbon and ceramic composites now. might have been what John Britten had Greg

I found the issue of Classic mechanics with the PEEK engine in it - you forgot the very dodgy character on the cover holding a piece like he stole it...
Asked the right people here about the Britten stuff. It basically was what they now call "hairy bog". May have been brewed locally from cut up CF mat and an HT epoxy. Eurodave reckons it's easy to make if i want to cast something in it. Recommends using a mat reinforcement if it's slightly structural...No heat required to set either apparently but until they increased the draft on the moulds it was a bit difficult to get the finished piece out.

[husaberg]

I found the issue of Classic mechanics with the PEEK engine in it - you forgot the very dodgy character on the cover holding a piece like he stole it...
Asked the right people here about the Britten stuff. It basically was what they now call "hairy bog". May have been brewed locally from cut up CF mat and an HT epoxy. Eurodave reckons it's easy to make if i want to cast something in it. Recommends using a mat reinforcement if it's slightly structural...No heat required to set either apparently but until they increased the draft on the moulds it was a bit difficult to get the finished piece out.


I think did pretty well remembering that the mag was yellow and had a ES2 on it, i should get points for that.
I am guessing it was not a sucess anyway as we are not overflowing with PEEK pistons.

So what did they make with the "hairy BOG" though. I found some stuff like that on the net mainly for repairing CF bodywork.
Also was it machinable (with propper breathing gear)

[WilDun]

Must say I'm finding all this stuff fascinating (ie. all this oddball engine stuff) and I wouldn't want to miss it for the world, but is there a niche for this somewhere?

Unfortunately the thing is getting way off track - the foundry thread is good, especially with the experienced input we so often get here, but all the valuable foundry info could be swamped amongst other stuff and become a free for all if we're not careful! - the ESE thread is extremely busy already.

Trouble is the whole forum is supposed to be about Bucket Racing and this sort of stuff doesn't fit in with that totally either (loosely maybe).
Is it possible for someone to start a thread, maybe called " Oddball Engine Prototypes" or similar and maybe transfer this (great) current conversation to it without it being looked on as not being "Bucket Material" ?

What does YOW LING think?

What does the Moderator think?

What does anyone think?

[husaberg]

Must say I'm finding all this stuff fascinating (ie. all this oddball engine stuff) and I wouldn't want to miss it for the world, but is there a niche for this somewhere?

Unfortunately the thing is getting way off track - the foundry thread is good, especially with the experienced input we so often get here, but all the valuable foundry info could be swamped amongst other stuff and become a free for all if we're not careful! - the ESE thread is extremely busy already.

Trouble is the whole forum is supposed to be about Bucket Racing and this sort of stuff doesn't fit in with that totally either (loosely maybe).
Is it possible for someone to start a thread, maybe called " Oddball Engine Prototypes" or similar and maybe transfer this (great) current conversation to it without it being looked on as not being "Bucket Material" ?

What does YOW LING think?

What does the Moderator think?

What does anyone think?
done
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/171300-Oddball-engines-and-prototypes?p=1130797063#post1130797063

[Flettner]

Hey, this is just fill in stuff untill the next big foundry thing comes along, I say it's good!

[Yow Ling]

Yea , I think its good, no maths or intelectual stuff, almost all of it has foundrywork involved.
I like it more than endless discussions on the RSA125, but there is a seperate thread for that.

I love big semi diesels, and old stationary engines, weird shit, Yamaha 2 strokes, fiat 500's
machine tools, tractors and farm machinery

So I guess you can post anything here as long as its interesting, and we can still post foundry stuff when we have something to post

Think of it as life support for the thread

[WilDun]

That was quick, didn't expect that my post would have even been noticed yet! However, it seems to have faded away again (unless its my computer playing up).
I can see that not everyone will agree - that's fair enough and maybe there are not too many enthusiastic foundrymen around of course, but it is a great learning tool for those who might be keen to discuss foundry things, there was also quite a bit of interest from overseas too.

[Flettner]

I am keen to get back to pattern work but I've had my time taken up finishing my bloody gyro. I need to get the Autoflight twostroke test run some more but then it will need to fly. All the little bits take soo long although it is close now.
Priced up a crucible yesterday, might have to get my own foundry up and running again I think. Do my own test castings without anyone watching. ( the mistakes )

[Yow Ling]

I have been using my furnace for a different job, I recently foo'd up the sleeve in my 2 stroke , it used to take ages to warm it up in the oven or head it with a 4500 watt heat gun till the sleeve dropped out , now i just put it in the furnace and its done in just a few minutes, popped a blank sleeve in , waited for it to cool down and chucked it in nitric acid to etch the ports, should really let it cool more next time , the fumes were brown and a bit intimidating. New sleeve about half done

[WilDun]

I suggested the thread ( Oddball Engines & Prototypes) and was expecting a debate of the pros and cons on my hands, however, HUSA thought it was good and set it in motion anyway - no pissing around here! just do it I guess!

I hope it doesn't detract anything from this thread, but the idea was to open stuff up about old forgotten engine designs and show them to some younger enthusiastic guys who might be inspired to make some improvements, or be inspired to come up with new designs.

Let's hope it doesn't get canned as it's not necessarily motorcycle material, let alone Bucket material (but could be). There's a wealth of stuff which has been forgotten and which doesn't appear on the net anymore and which only exists in old scrapbooks etc. and I'm sure a lot of people in the forum will find something interesting.

[WilDun]

Priced up a crucible yesterday, might have to get my own foundry up and running again I think. Do my own test castings without anyone watching. ( the mistakes )

Flettner,
Good to see you're having another try at casting your own, hope you've got another drum left for a new furnace! ;)
Pity about all the good foundries having to close down, but some good comes out of everything I guess.
Hope it'll be a big success, like the patternmaking - I'd say quite a few people will be interested.

Yow Ling,
Interesting to see you used your furnace for other stuff as well, guess you had to be careful your cylinder didn't turn into a 'blob' ! :eek5:

[Flettner]

I meet a guy over at thames foundry ( when it was running ) who was making a cylinder head for his raceing car, not sure what type, but the rules stated that the original head must be used. He did use the original head but melted it down and reformed it ( cast ) into a new style of head ( four valve I think ), good thinking as he was within the rules!
just thinking about your cylinder melting yow ling.

[WilDun]

He did use the original head but melted it down and reformed it ( cast ) into a new style of head ( four valve I think ), good thinking as he was within the rules!
.

Good one! :2thumbsup - but could he prove it?

[WilDun]

Think of it as life support for the thread

Yes I do think you are right of course and perish the thought that the engine design stuff should disappear from this thread.
My thinking was that the engine design stuff needed some space of it's own, otherwise it could take over completely and make some of our foundry stuff look decidedly mediocre, ie the real world stuff which is "actually happening" is often not seen to be as spectacular as stuff that "could be" or "could have been".
(Then, as always, I could be wrong!).

[speedpro]

. . . (Then, as always, I could be wrong!).

Best check with the wife for the answer to that

[WilDun]

Best check with the wife for the answer to that

I know the answer there -but just in case, I need a second opinion! :lol:

[WilDun]

FLETTNER,
I found this on my computer just by chance, probably filed it away and forgot it, - might interest you as it seems to have (sort of ?) sleeve valve operation of the ports, I dunno.
I'm sure it isn't up and running yet, otherwise we would have heard about it! - the English used in the description is a little hard to follow here and there! ( I think it's probably from Poland).
It could possibly be useful for inspiration at a later date.

http://www.wolfhartindustries.com/engine.htm

[WilDun]

This may also interest you - just managed to scan it from my old scrapbook.

306115306116306117

[WilDun]

Also found this one which I mentioned earlier ......... might interest you, might not.
306219

[andrew a]

Also found this one which I mentioned earlier ......... might interest you, might not.
306219

Just at a look I cant see how this can hold compression without the rotary valve becoming part of a bad shape chamber. inlet or exhaust would be open.

[WilDun]

Just at a look I cant see how this can hold compression without the rotary valve becoming part of a bad shape chamber. inlet or exhaust would be open.

Andrew,
Just something I had in an old scrapbook and I really don't know what ever became of it.
You are most likely correct in what you say though, as it was never heard of again to my knowledge.
However, FLETTNER was asking earlier for suggestions on OHV designs on two strokes and I just sent this in as a (vague) possibility.

[Flettner]

How interesting, this was one of the ideas I had, didn't realise it had been tried before.
Shouldn't this be all over on the oddball engine thread now?
What I ment to say was thank you for posting it.

[Yow Ling]

Just keep em coming Will, they all made from castings.

[WilDun]

How interesting, this was one of the ideas I had, didn't realise it had been tried before.
Shouldn't this be all over on the oddball engine thread now?
What I ment to say was thank you for posting it.

FLETTNER & YOW LING.
I just re-discovered that snippet a couple of days ago and when I last looked at it years ago (maybe 20), I was looking from a two stroke perspective - it was two stroke only for me in those days).


The Odball Forum? - No, this is about the valves we were discussing I would rather keep it here.

- You see what I mean about not getting all that stuff in with the foundry thread too much? - all good fun though!

However I'm just not able to get things like this going these days (haven't got the oomph - maybe never had!) - but if you are interested Flettner..... but for me it's far from being even a a serious thought!.

YL, - Yes, got some more of this old stuff I'm digging up every day, I'll put it on here as I won't really be doing much with it now. When I kick the bucket, (eventually) it'll all end up in the tip for sure!

[Grumph]

Just at a look I cant see how this can hold compression without the rotary valve becoming part of a bad shape chamber. inlet or exhaust would be open.

One face of the rotor plain - firing when this is in place blocking the port slots in the chamber. Sealing ? Mmmh.
One face exhaust port
One face inlet port.

Very poor flow lines, masked ports, poor flow efficiency. If you want better, you'd have to go much wider with the rotor - and it looks heavy at the top now.
Aspin did it better with his later cylindrical rotary valve. inlet one end, exhaust the other. Massive heat problems but...

[WilDun]

One face of the rotor plain - firing when this is in place blocking the port slots in the chamber. Sealing ? Mmmh.
One face exhaust port
One face inlet port.

Very poor flow lines, masked ports, poor flow efficiency. If you want better, you'd have to go much wider with the rotor - and it looks heavy at the top now.
Aspin did it better with his later cylindrical rotary valve. inlet one end, exhaust the other. Massive heat problems but...


Wasn't the later model Aspin still a conical valve? I know the Cross was cylindrical. but then it's a long time since I last looked.

As I remember it from studying how it worked, that's probably 30 years ago, it had it's problems and in order to overcome some of those, the rotational speed was not constant. (I think) it slowed up under compression and power strokes and was sped up again, by a complicated drive either by using some sort of crank arrangement on the drive gears, or perhaps an elliptical gearing arrangement in the drive. (Might find that somewhere, been a while though.......)
Still didn't cure all the problems, and it faded away - sad to see that happen.
EDIT. - I read that he started using planetary gearing on the input to the valve to speed up and slow down the rotation.

But maybe it tells us something, either put up with lots of smoke and worn valves (through the sliding motion) of the rotary valves, or red hot rattly poppet valves with all their restrictions!
Guess which has been winning for the last 100+ years!

As for that picture of the "wankel valve" - it never was developed to my knowledge and I agree that it would be a hard job to get it to work the way it appears in the pic, but who knows, with a bit of rearranging as to how it is used, it stands as good a chance as Aspin or Cross I reckon. :yes:

[WilDun]

This is what I was referring to
306298

[Yow Ling]

this search covers a fair bit of ground

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=aspin+engine&rlz=1T4WQIB_enNZ549NZ549&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=p1t-VKKoLIiymAWy24GYBQ&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=2106&bih=908&dpr=0.9#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=TsFgHQwrSvtpDM%253A%3BkuHOpxdxJpdsoM%3Bhttp% 253A%252F%252Fwww.villiers.info%252FAspin%252Fimag es%252Flive1%252Fdscn3897.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252 Fwww.villiers.info%252FAspin%252Fimages%252Flive1% 252Flive1.htm%3B400%3B300


http://way2speed.blogspot.com/2012/01/rotary-valve-internal-combustion-engines.html

[WilDun]

Yeah, checked all that a couple of nights ago, already knew about half of them, the rest are new (to me).

In one way it's fantastic and then it's also sickening to know that we're in the bloody information supermarket!
"Paradise" is what I would have called it 30 years ago when we had to scratch for info. Now it's coming out of our ears - and what do we do with it? - we "file it away till later" and later will be too late! (apologies to Flettner of course).

I still have one or two little snippets which I haven't seen there and with a bit of luck, mine won't look spectacular enough to end up in a great supermarket shelf. Having said that, I still go through them, can't help myself!

Back to foundries, I lit up my furnace today, heated it up with a hot air gun first then ran it for about an hour with the burner. It was quite close to the house so I had to put up some sheilds, Then finally the gas ran out, but not before it got quite hot - it's now in the process of cooling down.
Was all a bit inconclusive really and I'm not totally convinced that my super duper burner is hot enough, but then, as always , I could be wrong! :rolleyes:

[husaberg]

Left: The Norton Rotary cylinder head fitted to a Manx Norton motorcycle engine.
The cylindrical valve at the top is driven by bevel gears from a vertical shaft, which is driven from another vertical shaft via two small pinions. The second vertical shaft is driven by bevel gears from the crankshaft. The mystery of why two vertical shafts were used has been solved by Jean-Fran�ois Depau, who points out that in his book "Built For Speed", John Griffith writes: "As the head is wider than that of a "Manx" unit, the vertical shaft of the bevel drive had to be stepped out to reach the end of the rotor. A virtue was made of this necessity by installing a gear-type oil pump at the "step", so that the drive went in on one shaft of the pump and out on the other."

This book was published by Temple Press, second impression in 1965. John Griffith was a journalist in the 1950's, writing for Motor Cycling magazine. His specialty was road testing the motorcycles of the day, but he had a special interest in historic racing motorcycles.
306318306319



this page has a few
http://way2speed.blogspot.com/2012/01/rotary-valve-internal-combustion-engines.html
http://hooniverse.com/2011/03/02/encyclopedia-hoonatica-non-traditional-valve-systems/

[WilDun]

FLETTNER
I sent a PM.

Having now fired up my furnace (it took 24 hours to cool down enough to touch) so this suggests that the insulation is A1 !

Except for two insignificant cracks, it all came out very well. Trying to sort out my bandsaw at the moment, but I should have my tongs finished today and need to finish off the lid which just needs a sheetmetal covering over the wool insulation, then I'll maybe try a melt. - then, I need somewhere to pour the stuff of course, better get on to that - too many things to consider! - then, there's safety measures ...... hell! :scratch:


I need to spend less time on the computer and more time on the foundry stuff, now that it's all starting to look promising!

[Flettner]

WilDun, you got that furnace going? I might need to get some stuff cast. Mine is still just plans, didn't order anything yet. Too many patterns to finish first.

Just been machining out the bottom cases ( patterns ) for the sleeve engine but a catastrophy, machined the wrong part out ( clearly I can't measure ). Thats why I don't machine out of solid alloy because with just a bit of glue and wood we are back to new again.
If I was better at drawing solid models this wouldn't be a problem, I tend to intergrate lots of smaller cut paths and sometimes they don't match up. Trying to shortcut the process to speed things up, two steps forward, one back.

[Grumph]

I don't think you do too badly....Pattern making is imagining a shape in 3D - inside out. The occasional error when trying to programme a machining path is only to be expected.

Has anyone else seen the ad on TV for "kinetic sand" a Xmas "must have" for kids ? I immediately wondered what the binding agent is and what temperature it would take....Must have a look next time I'm at the Warehouse.

[Bert]

I don't think you do too badly....Pattern making is imagining a shape in 3D - inside out. The occasional error when trying to programme a machining path is only to be expected.

Has anyone else seen the ad on TV for "kinetic sand" a Xmas "must have" for kids ? I immediately wondered what the binding agent is and what temperature it would take....Must have a look next time I'm at the Warehouse.

Funny you should say that Grumph, those same thoughts popped into my head too...

[husaberg]

Funny you should say that Grumph, those same thoughts popped into my head too...



Silly Putty sand is the brainchild of a Sweden-based arts and crafts company called Delta of Sweden. They call it Deltasand, but have sold the license to several toymakers who will probably change its name. One notable toy company now selling Silly Putty sand is Colorado-based WABA Fun. They've decided to call it Kinetic Sand.
What gives Kinetic Sand, which is actually 98 percent silicon dioxide (a fancy word for sand), its malleable form? It has polydimethyl siloxane, or PDMS, in it. PDMS belongs to a group of polymeric organosilicon compounds and is most notably used as an anti-foaming agent in industrial process liquids.

But if you've ever held Silly Putty in your hand, you know what PDMS is. Or, as Core 77 notes, if you've ever eaten chicken nuggets at McDonald's or Wendy's, you've encountered it there, too. The fast-food chains use it to, we're assuming, keep the chicken nuggets from foaming.

And according to the Kinetic Sand safety data sheet, if you swallow it, there's "No need for first aid."
but does it hold its shape?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_-zqsgDA4

latter
When you described it I thought of a Mythbusters episode where they used Gauva gum and some other non newtonian fluids, the ingredient in silly putty is polydimethylsiloxane a viscoelastic liquid.
they were a liquis that becomes a soild when pressure is applied ie hitting with a hammer or squeezing with your hands they revert to a liquid otherwise



Silly Putty is a toy based on silicone polymers that have unusual physical properties. It bounces, but breaks when given a sharp blow and can also flow like a liquid. It contains a viscoelastic liquid silicone, a type of non-Newtonian fluid, which makes it act as a viscous liquid over a long time period but as an elastic solid over a short time period. It was originally created by accident during research into potential rubber substitutes for use by the United States in World War II.

The name Silly Putty is a trademark of Crayola LLC; the company's manufacturer is based in Easton, Pennsylvania. Other names are used to market similar substances from other manufacturers.



Contents [hide]
1 Description
2 History
3 Other uses
4 See also
5 References
6 External links


Description[edit]

As a bouncing putty, Silly Putty is noted for its unusual characteristics: it bounces, but breaks when given a sharp blow; it can also float in a liquid and will form a puddle given enough time. Silly Putty and most other retail putty products have thixotropic agents added to reduce the flow and enable the putty to hold its shape.



File:Sillyputty.ogg
Play media



Video showing Silly Putty bouncing
The original coral-colored Silly Putty is composed of 65% dimethyl siloxane (hydroxy-terminated polymers with boric acid), 17% silica (crystalline quartz), 9% Thixatrol ST (castor oil derivative), 4% polydimethylsiloxane, 1% decamethyl cyclopentasiloxane, 1% glycerine, and 1% titanium dioxide.[citation needed]

Silly Putty's unusual flow characteristics are due to the ingredient polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS), a viscoelastic liquid. Viscoelasticity is a type of non-Newtonian flow, characterizing material that acts as a viscous liquid over a long time period but as an elastic solid over a short time period. Because its apparent viscosity increases directly with respect to the amount of force applied, Silly Putty can be characterized as a dilatant fluid.

Silly Putty is also a fairly good adhesive. When newspaper ink was petroleum based, Silly Putty could be used to transfer newspaper images to other surfaces, possibly after introducing distortion. Newer papers with soy-based inks are more resistant to this activity.

Silly Putty will dissolve when in contact with an alcohol; after the alcohol evaporates, the material will not exhibit its original properties.





Silly Putty shown as a solid cube
Generally, Silly Putty is difficult to remove from textured items such as hair and clothing. Hand sanitizers containing alcohol are often helpful. The maker, Crayola, suggests WD-40.[1]

If Silly Putty is submerged in warm or hot water, it will become softer and thus "melt" much faster. It also becomes harder to remove small amounts of it from surfaces. After a long period of time, it will return to its original viscosity.

Silly Putty is sold as a 13 g (0.46 oz) piece of plastic clay inside an egg-shaped plastic container. It is available in various colors, including glow-in-the-dark and metallic. The brand is owned by Crayola LLC (formerly the Binney & Smith company), which also owns Crayola crayons. As of July 2009, twenty thousand eggs of Silly Putty are sold daily. Since 1950, more than 300 million eggs of Silly Putty (approximately 4,500 short tons or 4,100 tonnes) have been sold.[2] Other brands offer similar materials in larger size containers and in a wide variety of colors, such as pink, blue and yellow, or with different properties, such as magnetism and iridescence.


History[edit]

During World War II, Japan invaded rubber-producing countries as they expanded their sphere of influence in the Pacific Rim. Rubber was vital for the production of rafts, tires, vehicle and aircraft parts, gas masks, and boots. In the U.S., all rubber products were rationed; citizens were encouraged to make their rubber products last until the end of the war and to donate spare tires, boots, and coats. Meanwhile, the government funded research into synthetic rubber compounds to attempt to solve this shortage.[3]

Credit for the invention of Silly Putty is disputed[4] and has been attributed variously to Earl Warrick, of the then newly formed Dow Corning; Harvey Chin; and James Wright,[5] a Scottish inventor working for General Electric in New Haven, Connecticut.[6] Throughout his life, Warrick insisted that he and his colleague, Rob Roy McGregor, received the patent for Silly Putty before Wright did; but Crayola's history of Silly Putty states that Wright first invented it in 1943.[3][7][8] Both researchers independently discovered that reacting boric acid with silicone oil would produce a gooey, bouncy material with several unique properties. The non-toxic putty would bounce when dropped, could stretch farther than regular rubber, would not go moldy, and had a very high melting temperature.

Wright found that the substance did not have all the properties needed to replace rubber, so it was not used for any purpose. In 1945 Wright sent samples to scientists all around the world, but no practical use was ever found.

In 1949, the putty reached the owner of a toy store, Ruth Fallgatter. She contacted Peter Hodgson, a marketing consultant. The two decided to market the bouncing putty by selling it in a clear case. Although it sold well, Fallgatter did not pursue it further. However, Hodgson saw its potential.

Already $12,000 in debt, Hodgson borrowed $147 to buy a batch of the putty to pack 1 oz (28 g) portions into plastic eggs for $1, calling it Silly Putty. After selling over 250,000[9] eggs of silly putty in three days, Hodgson was almost put out of business in 1951 by the Korean War. Silicone, a main ingredient in silly putty, was put on ration, harming his business. A year later the restriction on silicone was lifted and the production of Silly Putty resumed.[2] Initially, it was primarily targeted towards adults. However, by 1955 the majority of its customers were aged 6 to 12. In 1957, Hodgson produced the first televised commercial for Silly Putty, which aired during the Howdy Doody Show.

In 1961 Silly Putty went worldwide, becoming a hit in the Soviet Union and Europe. In 1968 it was taken into lunar orbit by the Apollo 8 astronauts.

Peter Hodgson died in 1976. A year later, Binney & Smith, the makers of Crayola products, acquired the rights to Silly Putty. By 1987, annual Silly Putty sales exceeded two million eggs.

Silly Putty was inducted into the National Toy Hall of Fame in 2001.

Other uses[edit]

After its success as a toy, other uses were found. In the home, it can be used to remove substances such as dirt, lint, pet hair, or ink from various surfaces. The material's unique properties have found niche use in medical and scientific applications. Physical therapists use it for rehabilitative therapy of hand injuries. A number of other brands (such as Power Putty and TheraPutty) alter the material's properties, offering different levels of resistance. The material is also used therapeutically for stress reduction. Because of its adhesive characteristics, it was used by Apollo astronauts to secure their tools in zero-gravity.[10] Scale model building hobbyists use the putty as a masking medium when spray painting model assemblies.[11]

[WilDun]

WilDun, you got that furnace going? I might need to get some stuff cast.

Haven't looked in much lately - thought the thread had died but got a pleasant surprise, having just had a look in.

Well, yes, sort of ready but i hope to have it going over the holidays (at another venue). - Ha ha, - yes you'll no doubt get the best quality castings in NZ from here!

That "sand" is extremely interesting stuff I must say, but is there anywhere at all it could be used for casting and foundry work?

[husaberg]

just found this

http://www.abcstuff.com/deltasand.php
◾Spread flat and trace letters and words using your finger or a stylus, or shape into letters using our alphabet molds.

◾ After making shapes with DeltaSand or stamping with an alphabet mold, you can bake DeltaSand in a 250 degree oven and the shape will harden and can be painted. Just reheat Delta Sand in the oven and crumble while warm and it becomes reusable, moldable sand again.
◾Non-toxic, never dries out, nothing to wear out.
◾Sanitize DeltaSand by spraying a mist of a spoonful of chlorine bleach mixed in a quart of water, and let air dry before use.


Because the soft, wax-coated sand sticks together and never dries out, anything your child sculpts can be baked in a 250-degree oven. Once cooled it becomes a durable work of art or a permanent prop in his imaginative play. But reheat it again and crumble while warm, and it reverts to the moldable, squeezable sand.
http://www.timberdoodle.com/DeltaSand_p/782-023.htm


MAKE A SOLID SCULPTURE IN COLOUR! 1. compact some soft Deltasand onto the back of a ceramic tile. 2. Shape it into a rough version of the shape you want. 3. Bake in a conventional kitchen oven at 125°c/250°F for 60 min per kg (30 min per lb). 4. Let it cool off inside the oven. 5. Remove from the oven and sculpt the baked Deltasand with the mirett or other carving tools. 6. Paint with water-based paints.

[WilDun]

just found this

That's incredible! - but (and there's got to be a "but" in there somewhere), why hasn't it been used before as a serious tool in the foundry industry? -I don't think it's a completely new discovery.

[husaberg]

That's incredible! - but (and there's got to be a "but" in there somewhere), why hasn't it been used before as a serious tool in the foundry industry? -I don't think it's a completely new discovery.

I don't think it can replace a refactory sand, due to it being unable to cope with the heat of casting, but I think it does have applications in making pattern for lost wax or plastic, as a reusable silicon........
Then again clay could work plus be able to make resin sand core patterns
the other thing is silly putty has not long turned 50 coincidently which is how long patents traditionally last..........

[Flettner]

How re useable is it after 750 degrees attacks it? At that type of setting temp you will still need a metal die to set it in. How will you get the sand into the steel die?
Whats wrong with shell moulding sand, sets at 280 / 300 degrees, can handle 750 while the alloy cools ( keeps its shape ), runs like water into the die ( even better with air assistance ), runs like water after the casting is done and you need to get the stuff out of your cylinder you just cast.
If you want cold setting sand ( for in wooden boxes ), just use the CO2 type, cheap and easiy to use.
Concetrate on making stuff ( casting aluminium ), there is a LOT of things still to be made using tried and true methods.

What a pitty to see hours of work go up in smoke because the medium was not up to the job.

Hey just my two cents worth

[speedpro]

Actually, from you that's probably about 23cents worth

[ken seeber]

Got to agree with Neil on this. Shell core is pretty good. For small sections, they harden almost instantaneously, are very hard, durable and long lasting. The downside is that you need metal coreboxes. My experience with CO2 cores is that they are not very strong, soft and breakdown after a couple of days, so need to be used pretty soon after setting. Resin sand is somewhere in between. The upside of these processes is that timber & plastic (especially 3D printed coreboxes) can be used. Horses for courses
Pics show the main central core used for the ARC (Australian made kart engine). These are over 15 years old, still strong and still hard to even scratch with the fingernail.

[Flettner]

Sleeve valve crank case patterns. Bit of a half assed way to build them but too bad this is how it's going to be. Note the cavity to house the balance shaft. Gearbox is YZ250.

[Flettner]

This is whats been holding up progress, my new gyro / bike trailer. I just finished it, outside ramps are for the gyro wheels.

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTOCAd2QhGg

[ken seeber]

I have 2 things to say about this:
1. Don't pick your nose straight after
2. Don't do it with molten aluminium (for the reasons mentioned previously).

[peewee]

Gearbox is YZ250.

nice work. is there any particular reason you chose the yz250 box versus something else, like a honda (cr250/cr500) or even ktm (250sx, they also have a 6sp version now) ?

[Flettner]

nice work. is there any particular reason you chose the yz250 box versus something else, like a honda (cr250/cr500) or even ktm (250sx, they also have a 6sp version now) ?

The same old reason as always, I just happened to have one spare, and they are not a bad gearbox.

[peewee]

The same old reason as always, I just happened to have one spare, and they are not a bad gearbox.

i figured that was the reasons but i had to ask anyways. maybe i missed it or you never mentioned it but what cubic capacity will your engine be and will it be used for road racing or something else ?

[Flettner]

i figured that was the reasons but i had to ask anyways. maybe i missed it or you never mentioned it but what cubic capacity will your engine be and will it be used for road racing or something else ?

FOS will be 100cc , sleeve is 125cc. Cases fit my YZ250F (0010)frame so probably off road first. 100cc is so it can be used in buckets if it works well enough.

[F5 Dave]

Ohh ohh ohh. I'm almost young enough for a factory ride.

[mr bucketracer]

Ohh ohh ohh. I'm almost young enough for a factory ride.you need to be better on the breaks (-=;

[Flettner]

Ohh ohh ohh. I'm almost young enough for a factory ride.

Well, I sure as hell won't be rinding it, I'm not ( young enough ).

Todays progress.

[F5 Dave]

You've met me,the grey hairs aren't lying. But im not 50 for several years. . . well a few. More than a couple.

Salivating at this project. What sort of revs are you anticipating?

[Drew]

FOS will be 100cc , sleeve is 125cc. Cases fit my YZ250F (0010)frame so probably off road first. 100cc is so it can be used in buckets if it works well enough.

Are you allowed an MX gearbox in buckets now?

[husaberg]

Are you allowed an MX gearbox in buckets now?

Flettner would be able to produce an exact copy right down to the parts numbers stamped on them.......:bleh:

[Drew]

Flettner would be able to produce an exact copy right down to the parts numbers stamped on them.......:bleh:

Seems legit.

[TZ350]

FOS will be 100cc, 100cc is so it can be used in buckets if it works well enough.


Are you allowed an MX gearbox in buckets now?

Yes you are right, the 250 YZ gearbox is illegal for F4, not to mention over kill for a 100, maybe even for the sleeve 125 but a YZ gearbox is what he has along with a YZ250 to try it in.

Flettner was talking about a "FOS 100cc cylinder" being tried in a bucket if it works well enough in his MX bike. Which probably means a different F4 legal engine setup for the Bucket.

[Drew]

Yes the 250 YZ gearbox is illegal, not to mention over kill for a 100. Flettner was talking about the "FOS 100cc cylinder" being tried in a bucket if it works well enough in his MX bike. I guess it means a different engine for the Bucket.

But the cases are made to take YZ gearbox shafts. It's gonna be tough to retrofit something else in there afterwards.

[Flettner]

But the cases are made to take YZ gearbox shafts. It's gonna be tough to retrofit something else in there afterwards.

Machine up another set of cases to suit say an ER 100 gearbox, perhaps?

[Drew]

Machine up another set of cases to suit say an ER 100 gearbox, perhaps?

Doesn't bother me, I was just wondering what the deal was.

[husaberg]

But the cases are made to take YZ gearbox shafts. It's gonna be tough to retrofit something else in there afterwards.

Have you been following the thread Drew?
Neil once disarmed the NZ air defence radar system without even trying.....

[Drew]

Have you been following the thread Drew?
Neil once disarmed the NZ air defence radar system without even trying.....

Not closely. I'm forced to concede that my intellect is lacking, and comprehension escapes me.

[husaberg]

Not closely. I'm forced to concede that my intellect is lacking, and comprehension escapes me.

Suffice to say Neil has skills to pay the bills.

[F5 Dave]

He's like the opposite of Dukie.

[Kickaha]

He's like the opposite of Dukie.
Skinny and knows what he's doing?

[Grumph]

Machine up another set of cases to suit say an ER 100 gearbox, perhaps?

I hope that's not something else lying around....Husa has already identified the best smallish close ratio six speed - honda VT250. Plenty of shagged Vt's in wreckers too.

[husaberg]

I hope that's not something else lying around....Husa has already identified the best smallish close ratio six speed - honda VT250. Plenty of shagged Vt's in wreckers too.

I might have found an even better one too, but keeping that one to myself.... but they the VT250 are pretty good ratios the gears are thin but fairly big in the diameter compared to say a mx125.
I can't imagine the gearbox would be worn on most vt's
They also have a planetary gear change. Typical Honda stupid size bearings.......
They have a clutch which has the std Honda size plates but much larger diameter gear which is great for water coolled crankcases.
Funny enough I actually started on the patterns today, Neil's right it's great therapy messing with wood.

Still looking for a VT250 primary drive gear if anyone has one?

[jasonu]

Have you been following the thread Drew?
Neil once disarmed the NZ air defence radar system without even trying.....

I didn't know NZ had an air defense system.

[husaberg]

I didn't know NZ had an air defense system.

They used too.... Now it consists predominantly of a flock of Petrels and a couple of Gannets.

Radar.... but you knew that anyway Jason, cause you were likely there...... the defence was the early warning it would have given us to give us time to surrender........

[WilDun]

I didn't know NZ had an air defense system.

And the Martin Jet Pack - much better than an F Whatever - and cheaper!
Get up in one of those and you can see things coming for bloody miles! (still working on what to do with them when we do spot them though!) - maybe release a flock of petrels to get sucked into the intakes!
Anyway,they're so good that the US Military want to build them under licence (license to you)!:laugh:

(HUSA please put the picture in I can't get it to work.).


FLETTNER Watching your new engine progress with interest.

[husaberg]

Better than a picture here is the CHCH made V4 powerplant for the Martin jetpack as in 4x CR500 cylinders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ceeyrmn2Pj4

[WilDun]

This was the one I was trying to do!
307570

I'd heard that they were going to use an axial engine (maybe 2 ?) like the DUKE - has that fallen through or did it never come to pass?
CR500 x 4 - plenty of power i guess but not a lot of fuel economy! and I guess they have worked out an exhaust system with a V4 layout where the usual chambers are redundant.

[Grumph]

It's RPM and power limited for aviation certification.

Husa you posted a couple of pics of the MAV4 part built on the bench that I sent you some time back.
On another thread ? Will may be interested.