The Bucket Foundry

[Yow Ling]

The foundry or metal casting stuff thats been going on the the ESE thread really inspired me to get on with having a go at this stuff.
If you can cast metal theres really not much you cant do. I dont think its going to be easy, most of it has been a bit of 2 steps forward 1 step back so far.

Im actually an old hand at this I cast a sinker weight or a sandwich toaster when I was in 4th form metalwork, I suspect not much has changed in the last 35 years since then.

First I found myself a furnace, looks nice but with the burner it had was struggling to melt cheese, I now have a new burner with a gentle breeze from a small blower.


One of the first things I wanted to do was copy some parts to make moulds from, Husaberg put me onto a product called Vinamold its a rubbery hotmelt that feels a bit like silicone when at room temp but is a runny liquid at 160°C here my first stab at copying the transfers from a RG250 barrell

290811
How it arrives, I bought 1.5kg its reusable so if you screw up just throw it back into the pot and try again
290812

290813

290814

290815

290810
left over vinamold ready for next time

[Yow Ling]

Heres the finished mould of the transfers
290820


290816
290817
the furnace with the new burner and blower

290818

Scrap pile with a ingot from the first sucessful melt

290819
Crucible made from a bit of pipe about 5" diameter

[Yow Ling]

This is only the start of the journey, there is so much to learn it kept me awake at night trying to figure some of it out. I can see some almighty cockups in the near future. apart from the LPG its all recycleable.

[TZ350]

This is great .... looking forward to seeing how it goes. :yes:

[husaberg]

Oh i have some molds............
Did you watch the series of Vids i posted Mike?
It has some clever dodges like the degassing etc.

[Yow Ling]

Oh i have some molds............
Did you watch the series of Vids i posted Mike?
It has some clever dodges like the degassing etc.

Ah yes this list, plenty of good stuff here, the myfordboy and mr pete are great



The Myford boy and mrPete22 stuff is worth watching all the videos in the series


Cores etc

http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/archiv...p/t-6993.html?
http://www.bronzecasting.co.uk/8_san...sodsil_11.html
http://www.imarketingcenter.com/coresand.html

materials

http://www.industrialsands.co.nz/order.html
http://www.industrialsands.co.nz/resin.html
http://www.metcast.com/index.php/cat...+Silicate+Core
http://www.cobcraft.co.nz/StudioTool...tegory=Liquids
http://www.cobcraft.co.nz/studiotool...tegory=Liquids
http://www.pottersclay.co.nz/rawmat.htm
http://www.ryanoresins.com/products/
How to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLArEHFFHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8DGkC8O9CY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-c4_Ukqgx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG9JzeZYPi4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khEvhjlh_SM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQt2RBzepNA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tqDL7H-C-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TekdQlmvkiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCBRfrPV8BY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yosykQ-o994

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OedpFHYIkDA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzKi4g7jD6I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khEvhjlh_SM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt2mq...A7F5FD2D3C3088
http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/kbond.shtml
http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundrycasting.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rU2aohquj4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWGNl7ijA7g
Vinamold

http://fibreglassshop.co.nz/products...meltable-vinyl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZGq1...jAnn8E76KP7sQg


Equipment
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/...emuller01.html
http://www.ecplabchem.co.nz/content....9-solution-1-l
http://www.foundry101.com/6.htm
http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/index.htm

Furnace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvWe...endscreen&NR=1
http://www.dansworkshop.com/2008/03/...ing-furnace-2/
http://www.submarineboat.com/casting...er_Pot_Furnace
http://www.flamingfurnace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen
http://myfordboy.blogspot.co.nz/p/my...s-furnace.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4SdKN-Kq58

[husaberg]

There is a few i couldn't find where he showed the molding table set up and the muller and the pedestal furnace he has.

[F5 Dave]

The foundry or metal casting stuff thats been going on the the ESE thread really inspired me to get on with having a go at this stuff.
If you can cast metal theres really not much you cant do. I dont think its going to be easy, most of it has been a bit of 2 steps forward 1 step back so far.

Im actually an old hand at this I cast a sinker weight or a sandwich toaster when I was in 4th form metalwork, I suspect not much has changed in the last 35 years since then.

First I found myself a furnace, looks nice but with the burner it had was struggling to melt cheese, I now have a new burner with a gentle breeze from a small blower.


One of the first things I wanted to do was copy some parts to make moulds from, Husaberg put me onto a product called Vinamold its a rubbery hotmelt that feels a bit like silicone when at room temp but is a runny liquid at 160°C here my first stab at copying the transfers from a RG250 barrell
. . .



Mmm. Melted cheese. Used to eat plates of it as a teenager:yes:

[husaberg]

His furnace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVebluN3MsQ&list=PL69F982076354AC97&index=4
the Muling and table set up which is bloody neat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZGq1zCl4yM&list=PL69F982076354AC97
K-bond sand (2 Stroke LOL)
http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/kbond.shtml

[Yow Ling]

Heres an interesting foundry video, if it wasnt for the needless slaughter of tens of thousands, I would have said it was great

[Flettner]

Yow Ling, have you lined your crucible with somthing? Ceramic coating? There is a paint on able one. Hot steel straight aginst molten aluminium is not good for the alloy. It does not take much iron to dissolve into the alloy to wreak it. The casting will then not respond to heat treatment. Ok if you are making trinkets but no good if you want sound, high strength engine parts. Also you will need to control your melt temps well, if the alloy is over heated it will burn off some of the alloying components and once again the casting will be left unservicable. Just a few things to consider.

[Yow Ling]

Thanks Flettner, Im still taking baby steps, Ill get a proper crucible when one turns up.
How do you measure the temp of the molten metal ? How do foundries do it, would an exhaust thermocouple do? Can it be done by colour?
At the moment Im melting my old FXR motor, maybe turn it into FXR footpeg brackets.
Your 360 cylinder looks great , I suppose you will start it on sunday.
In my head I envisioned you somehow using a cope and drag to make the mould, but your process was way more complex, do you have any more pictures of that. I understand how the cores and core prints work, I dont get how the parts of the mold were made yet, do you bake them , gas them , ram em?

That should do for tonight

Cheers

[husaberg]

I linked these earlier should save Neil finding the pics:shifty:

[Flettner]

The bag of sand ( in the picture ) is the shell moulding sand I talk about. It is suppiled with a resin coating, this bonds to itself at approx 180 degrees C. You will need a metal die for this ( and the wifes oven ). Some of my dies are made using the CNC but some are made by copying the wood / bondifill moulds into aluminium at the foundry, then turning them into dies. This works well although they do need a little cleaning up so the sand core will slide out easily. I have a few pictures, I'll round them up if you like.
The other stuff in the pictures is the casting resin, for pattern making. It is good because it doesn't shrink or expand as it sets. It uses two equal parts. It is expensive at $380 for what you see here, adding micro ballons makes it go a little further. I have tried other products but at the end of the day this stuff is worth the money!
Good on you for having a go, I posted these pictures of making a cylinder ( pattern making ) so others might have a go instead of trying to hack out old cylinders to make them what they never were ment to be. Having the ability to cast intricate parts ( cylinders ) changes the way you will approch projects.
You will need a temp probe, I made one useing a cheap meter I bought using I think type K wire. Put it inside a stainless steel tube with the bare wire sticking out the end. There is quite a bit to melting alloy properly as you will need degassing pills and a flux of some sort.
After we had the " incident " with our home foundry I decided it was better to be friends with a local foundry and let him melt the alloy for me, I just make the moulds and put them on the floor next to his moulds.
The white sand you see is CO2 hardening sand ( cold process ), just pack it in then apply CO2 gas and will harden up instantly. This sand is not as strong as the shell hot sand process but it's good for less inticate parts. I'm not sure what is mixed with the sand, Husaburg will know.

[GerbilGronk]

I have a fair bit of video of Flettner in the foundry which I am slowly editing. It is pretty interesting stuff. There would have been some of the sleeve valve cylinder getting cast but you forgot to push record on the Go pro Neil :facepalm:. Oh well. We will have to get some of that when you do another casting. Give me a day or so and the first video will be ready.

[Bert]

Choice :2thumbsup

This is something I've always been really interested in trying out. I've attempted in the past (rearsets and levers) pretty much all a failures. Always had a dream of casting my own cylinders...

It's so cool to see that the old " backyard, it can be done" is still live and well here in NZ.

[husaberg]

The white sand you see is CO2 hardening sand ( cold process ), just pack it in then apply CO2 gas and will harden up instantly. This sand is not as strong as the shell hot sand process but it's good for less inticate parts. I'm not sure what is mixed with the sand, Husaburg will know.


"Waterglass" sodium silicate.
a decent chemist might have it the oldies used to use it for preserving eggs or something.
From what i understand it is possible to harden it by heating it in a dirty oven as well as the CO2
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BJQ-EwIXH30/UAcb_sxQPZI/AAAAAAAAALU/Va4BM2WjcmE/s1600/Sodium+silicate+002.jpg
http://www.metcast.com/index.php/sand-binder-systems/sodium-silicate-resins-hardeners/cms-sodasil-g.html


Add some to Budha's oil....

Potters us in in glazes (i think) most of the pottery supply places have it.
http://www.pottersclay.co.nz/rawmat.htm
http://www.cobcraft.co.nz/WebsiteImages/StudioTools/SodiumSilicate.jpg

[husaberg]

http://www.afsinc.org/about/content.cfm?ItemNumber=6898

http://www.afsinc.org/about/content.cfm?ItemNumber=8509

http://www.afsinc.org/about/content.cfm?ItemNumber=10443

[Flettner]

What about pictures of a 175 cylinder ( water cooled ) being built? I have a job to build said cylinder to suit the YZ125 engine.
I'll lift ports from another cylinder as a starting point. Interested?

[husaberg]

I am..........

[koba]

What about pictures of a 175 cylinder ( water cooled ) being built? I have a job to build said cylinder to suit the YZ125 engine.
I'll lift ports from another cylinder as a starting point. Interested?

Always!
:corn:

[Yow Ling]

the 175 sounds great, you could bring the 360 cylinder over here too if you wish, I find it hard to find the posts in the ese thread as there is so much else going on in there

[TZ350]

I find it hard to find the posts in the ese thread as there is so much else going on in there

Try page 880 for everything so far.

[husaberg]

Try page 880 for everything so far.

if you ever want to find anything Neil posts just click on his name and look at his posts or search through the tread tools. it gets harder as he posts more. i find image search's easier but don't try it with me. I seem to post a fair few pictures........:innocent:

[TZ350]

Everything to date ..... :laugh:


http://www.afsinc.org/about/content.cfm?ItemNumber=6898

http://www.afsinc.org/about/content.cfm?ItemNumber=8509

http://www.afsinc.org/about/content.cfm?ItemNumber=10443


"Waterglass" sodium silicate.
a decent chemist might have it the oldies used to use it for preserving eggs or something.
From what i understand it is possible to harden it by heating it in a dirty oven.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BJQ-EwIXH30/UAcb_sxQPZI/AAAAAAAAALU/Va4BM2WjcmE/s1600/Sodium+silicate+002.jpg
http://www.metcast.com/index.php/sand-binder-systems/sodium-silicate-resins-hardeners/cms-sodasil-g.html


Add some to Budha's oil....

Potters us in in glazes (i think) most of the pottery supply places have it.
http://www.pottersclay.co.nz/rawmat.htm
http://www.cobcraft.co.nz/WebsiteImages/StudioTools/SodiumSilicate.jpg


His furnace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVebluN3MsQ&list=PL69F982076354AC97&index=4
the Muling and table set up which is bllody neat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZGq1zCl4yM&list=PL69F982076354AC97
K-bond sand (2 Stroke LOL)
http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/kbond.shtml


Ah yes this list, plenty of good stuff here, the myfordboy and mr pete are great



The Myford boy and mrPete22 stuff is worth watching all the videos in the series


Cores etc

http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/archiv...p/t-6993.html?
http://www.bronzecasting.co.uk/8_san...sodsil_11.html
http://www.imarketingcenter.com/coresand.html

materials

http://www.industrialsands.co.nz/order.html
http://www.industrialsands.co.nz/resin.html
http://www.metcast.com/index.php/cat...+Silicate+Core
http://www.cobcraft.co.nz/StudioTool...tegory=Liquids
http://www.cobcraft.co.nz/studiotool...tegory=Liquids
http://www.pottersclay.co.nz/rawmat.htm
http://www.ryanoresins.com/products/
How to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFLArEHFFHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8DGkC8O9CY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-c4_Ukqgx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG9JzeZYPi4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khEvhjlh_SM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQt2RBzepNA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tqDL7H-C-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TekdQlmvkiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCBRfrPV8BY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yosykQ-o994

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OedpFHYIkDA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzKi4g7jD6I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khEvhjlh_SM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt2mq...A7F5FD2D3C3088
http://castinghobbyfaq.bareboogerhost.com/kbond.shtml
http://home.comcast.net/~oddkins/foundrycasting.html (http://home.comcast.net/%7Eoddkins/foundrycasting.html)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rU2aohquj4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWGNl7ijA7g
Vinamold

http://fibreglassshop.co.nz/products...meltable-vinyl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZGq1...jAnn8E76KP7sQg


Equipment
http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/...emuller01.html
http://www.ecplabchem.co.nz/content....9-solution-1-l
http://www.foundry101.com/6.htm
http://www.budgetcastingsupply.com/index.htm

Furnace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqvWe...endscreen&NR=1
http://www.dansworkshop.com/2008/03/...ing-furnace-2/
http://www.submarineboat.com/casting...er_Pot_Furnace
http://www.flamingfurnace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen
http://myfordboy.blogspot.co.nz/p/my...s-furnace.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4SdKN-Kq58


The foundry or metal casting stuff thats been going on the the ESE thread really inspired me to get on with having a go at this stuff.
If you can cast metal theres really not much you cant do. I dont think its going to be easy, most of it has been a bit of 2 steps forward 1 step back so far.

Im actually an old hand at this I cast a sinker weight or a sandwich toaster when I was in 4th form metalwork, I suspect not much has changed in the last 35 years since then.

First I found myself a furnace, looks nice but with the burner it had was struggling to melt cheese, I now have a new burner with a gentle breeze from a small blower.


One of the first things I wanted to do was copy some parts to make moulds from, Husaberg put me onto a product called Vinamold its a rubbery hotmelt that feels a bit like silicone when at room temp but is a runny liquid at 160°C here my first stab at copying the transfers from a RG250 barrell

290811
How it arrives, I bought 1.5kg its reusable so if you screw up just throw it back into the pot and try again
290812

290813

290814

290815

290810
left over vinamold ready for next time


Heres the finished mould of the transfers
290820


290816
290817
the furnace with the new burner and blower

290818

Scrap pile with a ingot from the first sucessful melt

290819
Crucible made from a bit of pipe about 5" diameter


Yow Ling, have you lined your crucible with somthing? Ceramic coating? There is a paint on able one. Hot steel straight aginst molten aluminium is not good for the alloy. It does not take much iron to dissolve into the alloy to wreak it. The casting will then not respond to heat treatment. Ok if you are making trinkets but no good if you want sound, high strength engine parts. Also you will need to control your melt temps well, if the alloy is over heated it will burn off some of the alloying components and once again the casting will be left unservicable. Just a few things to concider.


The bag of sand ( in the picture ) is the shell moulding sand I talk about. It is suppiled with a resin coating, this bonds to itself at approx 180 degrees C. You will need a metal die for this ( and the wifes oven ). Some of my dies are made using the CNC but some are made by copying the wood / bondifill moulds into aluminium at the foundry, then turning them into dies. This works well although they do need a little cleaning up so the sand core will slide out easily. I have a few pictures, I'll round them up if you like.
The other stuff in the pictures is the casting resin, for pattern making. It is good because it doesn't shrink or expand as it sets. It uses two equal parts. It is expensive at $380 for what you see here, adding micro ballons makes it go a little further. I have tried other products but at the end of the day this stuff is worth the money!
Good on you for having a go, I posted these pictures of making a cylinder ( pattern making ) so others might have a go instead of trying to hack out old cylinders to make them what they never were ment to be. Having the ability to cast intricate parts ( cylinders ) changes the way you will approch projects.
You will need a temp probe, I made one useing a cheap meter I bought using I think type K wire. Put it inside a stainless steel tube with the bare wire sticking out the end. There is quite a bit to melting alloy properly as you will need degassing pills and a flux of some sort.
After we had the " incident " with our home foundry I decided it was better to be friends with a local foundry and let him melt the alloy for me, I just make the moulds and put them on the floor next to his moulds.
The white sand you see is CO2 hardening sand ( cold process ), just pack it in then apply CO2 gas and will harden up instantly. This sand is not as strong as the shell hot sand process but it's good for less inticate parts. I'm not sure what is mixed with the sand, Husaburg will know.



http://youtu.be/1YG9ko8-Nwk

TZ, the EFI YZ is getting used at trail rides, three now, trouble free.
Why are there not more EFI twostrokes out there? This bike is a lot of fun to ride. We are experimenting with injection timing changes, interestingly this changes the way the power is delivered.
So far a 14% fuel saving over my carbed YZ 250. Same track, same times, same rider. This must go to show there is less fuel spillage out the exhaust.

I am keen to see that ball valve working on your 125. I like the boost bottle idea, best way to beat that restriction so far.


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1257_zpsae1acc20.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1256_zps74f40053.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1258_zps5e0e3437.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1260_zps7582374f.jpg

Just some random shots of uniflow cores and castings, this one is a 650cc
The cores are exhaust port and water cooling ( on the exhaust side ).


This is a porting tool!
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1262_zps8cbdc61e.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1263_zpsaf4c99ae.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1264_zpsa91cbe31.jpg


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1265_zpse10cd291.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_1265_zpse10cd291.jpg.html)

First there was this


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1266_zps7dbad0e2.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_1266_zps7dbad0e2.jpg.html)

And then this


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1267_zps70ad45ad.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_1267_zps70ad45ad.jpg.html)

Then after pouring a mould I cut and changed the shape to the curve I wanted


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1268_zps6033ea3f.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_1268_zps6033ea3f.jpg.html)

Then a female mould made to make more replicas


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1270_zps660433dc.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_1270_zps660433dc.jpg.html)
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1269_zps0517cc8c.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_1269_zps0517cc8c.jpg.html)
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1271_zps5018d683.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_1271_zps5018d683.jpg.html)

The exhaust core is taking shape.


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1272_zps47817f2b.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_1272_zps47817f2b.jpg.html)

This mould will be the sand core eventually, so this shape will be replicated in hard sand.
Where you don't want metal, you need sand ( a core ). This is what's called a core box.
To build a pattern like this you start with the cores first.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1275_zps3fae29f5.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_1275_zps3fae29f5.jpg.html)


Green stuff is bondi fill, just mix it up and press the part you want to copy into it. MUST wax the male part first.
White stuff is casting resin, two pot mix. Sets with a faithful size, no shrinkage or expansion.


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4456_zps2d1ffdec.jpg (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/uniflow/media/IMG_4456_zps2d1ffdec.jpg.html)
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4457_zpsb2266803.jpg

Cylinder mould building is slow, due to lack of time available. I had to change the main core mould to allow for these dimples to be made in the cylinder core. These are needed to fit ( glue ) the transfer cores to. Transfer cores not made yet. Evantually we want a hard sand core that looks like this.


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4458_zps76c5e236.jpg


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4460_zpsd7bd2e5e.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4461_zpsf93bf3f8.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4459_zpsc495cc02.jpg

The begining of the water core ( master ), this will be the same mould for top and bottom half, sand cores glued together in the mould.
Core prints need to be added to hold the core in place as the metal is pored. These will end up being the water inlet ports.
These are what " frost plugs" are on a car engine, not actually for frost, they are there to hold the water jacket sand core in place as the metal is poored around it. Also allows gas to escape as the air in the core expands as the hot metal is surrounding the sand core.
Orange things are air gun pellets, gives me a standard thickness on curved surfaces.


Enter the transfer port master and transfer core box.
Water core box next, then all will become clear, as to how it all fits together.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4463_zps119bff3c.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4462_zps16be5103.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4471_zpsbefe4eda.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4470_zps4ef4bc21.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4468_zps10a00436.jpg


Right, water core is done.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4476_zps6eb154e8.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4477_zps02fc085e.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4478_zpsd50547e8.jpg

And poured a cylinder resin core copy

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4472_zpsc02c5072.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4475_zps8ed4ad69.jpg

copies of the transfer port

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4480_zps17f30231.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4481_zps134e5778.jpg

Next I will be building the actual pattern, with these parts inside. Core prints will stick out of the final pattern ( thats all the tapered bits you can see on the ends of everything. It will become clear.

And all together

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4482_zpsce5c6f95.jpg


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4484_zpsc5d38f1c.jpg

Starting to build the outside shape, beads and bondi fill. Beads are stuck on with a hot glue gun, real pattern makers don't use a hot glue gun, apparently. Or for that matter, plastic beads.


Ok, it was crapy glue anyway. I'm not sure is the real answer. I am concidering a YZ125 as a base but either way I'll need to re make the cases as the transfer port arrangement won't suit. Also I'm not sure anyone has noticed yet but this cylinder is not an FOS type, although it may look like it. There is an extra part I haven't shown yet, see below. Remember it's a uniflow scavange type, with one piston.

OK now I've shown the missing part, let the "debate" begin.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1284_zpsbabecf1d.jpg (http://photobucket.com/)


It's a bit of a long shot but I just would like to have a go at testing a sleeve valve unit.
The piston now will get an easier life with no exhaust to control and no exhaust wash across its edge. Piston can be short as it does not have to cover an exhaust port any more. System total friction will increase but piston to sleeve friction should decrease as they are both moving together ( at different rates ) also nitride is slippery. Material choice for the casting may play a part ( silicon content ) at first I will make it in CC601 just because thats what we use for our gearbox housings. I do have a little LM13 ( 9% silicon I think ) in ingot laying around somewhere, probably in my storage facility ( the old cowshed out the back of the neighbours farm ). Yes if it was such a good idea why has it not been done before ( in small crankcase twostrokes )? I might find the answer to that when we test it, sometimes interesting results pop up that no one predicted. And yes there will be lugs on the side ( transfers ) to fit injectors, perhaps not at the start but if all works well EFI will be the next step.
The real reason I'm so interested is this engine will not need an expensive nickasil bore, nitriding the sleeve is cheap, bore will just need to be machined aluminium.


The beads and bondi fill are spreading.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4490_zps987b0fc3.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4489_zps8e1232bf.jpg


I use something rubbery, yes thats it Husaberg, vimamould that's what it's called. Heat it in a pot to about 170 C then pour into a pre prepared port. I use teflon spray down the port first ( after cleaning the surface ) . Put a slug down the cylinder to stop the rubber flowing out, and lastly insert a coach screw ( or somthing like it ) into the rubber as it sets. There is a lot of shinkage as the rubber solidifies so keep pouring. When cool just pull the rubber port copy out.


SVC cylinder is getting close, now the slow finnishing process, painting and sanding. Still have to sort out round the exhaust.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4498_zpsf6d119dc.jpg

And around the water core prints, this is where the cooling water will be directed into the cylinder.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4497_zpsa8ca1c6f.jpg

Top four screw lugs are for holding the head water jacket on only, not the head itself.


Cheated a bit today, I 3D machined this core box in aluminium. The wood one could be used no problem but I've found that cores , like the water one, that have a lot of exposed surface area to the molten aluminium can cause venting trouble. Cores made in a hot mould ( shell moulding sand ) are far better at venting hot gases out through the core prints and not into the molten aluminium.
Off to the foundry this weekend but I don't think I'll get this cylinder cast, still needs a few nights of finishing and tidying, I'm just concentrating on the 360 cases. Probably take a day off next week and have crack at it.


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4499_zpsa9adc16e.jpg


You should be so lucky, the F9 used to drink 200L drums of ethanol. I think it thought I had my own private still.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4500_zps93b80918.jpg

A couple of sand cores from the alloy die. These will be used in the moulding /casting next week.
Black stuff is carbon from the accetylene tourch, good non stick surface.
You can see how the core prints ( sticky out bits ) will hold the sand core in position to allow metal to flow around the core. When the metal has solidified the sand bond is destoyed and the sand pours out of the holes left behind by the core prints, leaving a water cooling cavity. You will see.


Foundry day was successful, 360 cases cast. Need to tidy them up, send off to get heat treated ( CC601 ) to T6. Casting is to suit YZ 250T gearbox. This is the engine that will have the computer controlled throttle via the rotary valve timing gibb ( slide ). Will run on E85. Cases are water cooled via the cavity behind the RV and under the crank case where the engine mount runs. Reverse cylinder and crank rotation.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_9248_zps24fdfbd1.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_9242_zps6db2c426.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_9245_zps928c42f7.jpg


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_0847_zpsedd4e18a.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_0845_zps9a60cc72.jpg

Patterns milled out on the CNC.
Reverse is via counter shaft ( gear drive ) also doubles as the ballance shaft.
Rob, Don't give up, it's the pain we all have to go through.


Frits, somtimes a balance shaft is a necessity, I would be frightened to even get off the ground with this engine before the balance shaft was fitted, now I'd be happy to fly all day.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_0493.jpg


Sand cores multipling in Claire's oven, as time permits, during the day when she is at work.
Copied the bondi fill transfer core box into metal at the foundry this week end, so now I can make hot sand cores. If I was interested in production I would have made a few more metal die copies but I probably will only ever need 12 transfer sand cores? One casting to machine up first and make mistakes on and the second "real" one.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4501_zpse2bb2990.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4464_zps6332b0cf.jpg


Grinding the sleeve, fixture has been made to hold the sleeve evenly all around.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4503_zps31f4827c.jpg


http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab102/GerbilGronk/Random%20Shots/IMG_9200_zpsa359c0a7.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/GerbilGronk/media/Random%20Shots/IMG_9200_zpsa359c0a7.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab102/GerbilGronk/Random%20Shots/IMG_9195_zps49a0ee1c.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/GerbilGronk/media/Random%20Shots/IMG_9195_zps49a0ee1c.jpg.html)

This is what happens when Flettner has no freeview.


If the sleeve thing doesn't work, we will just lower the exhaust ports and re cast as an FOS cylinder.


Off to the foundry tomorrow

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4504_zpsc453af9f.jpg

Sleeve with piston. Sleeve ready for nitriding.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4508_zps1082cedc.jpg


Foundry day successful.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4509_zps4c86d653.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4510_zpsfba4e4a3.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4511_zps0fe7eb9d.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4512_zps5a352b9a.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4513_zps0229403a.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4514_zpsccd56315.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4516_zpsa6a8844e.jpg

From glue, beads and bodifill rubbish, to somthing usefull.


All I had time for tonight, four threads on top are not head studs. Both cylinders have been heat treated but I'll only machine one, untill there is a mistake!
This appears to be a very clean casting, must have had the risers ( feeders ) in the right place.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4521_zpsf0dc6d04.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4522_zpsab2b9e7d.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4520_zpscb34c218.jpg


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4519_zps1b5dd691.jpg

Machining out the 360 cases. CC601 heat treated usualy machines well, shiny and hard.


I hope the Germans dont steal your IP Flettner !

290928

[Yow Ling]

Thanks TZ, I still couldn't have done that !

[Flettner]

All finished, just need a crank case and head to screw on.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4524_zps7104c784.jpg

[Yow Ling]

Very nice, in the time it took you to finish it, I managed to mow the grass, !
Did you mill the threads in the cylinder , or screwcut them in a lathe?

[Flettner]

CNC thread milled, also used the CNC to do the oval exhaust ports, where the chambers will fit.
I'm not sure what to do about the crank case? I either re manufacture ( copy in casting resin and re cast ) the original 125 cases or copy and change the the drawing of the 360 cases but make them a little smaller and shorter. Not bother with reversing engine rotation and just use the 250 gearbox and clutch. A bit of an over kill but it will then fit straight into the YZ250F frame I have lined up for these experimental engines. Also if it did in fact produce some power the bigger gearbox would not cause trouble. I would just use case reed as it's simple and quick ( for now ). I thought I might get into it today but still seem to have a lot of customers jobs hanging around that need to be finished before Christmas!

[Flettner]

http://youtu.be/vKsJ2DU_3ZE

[husaberg]

neat......After watch the vid i can see two things Greg is talented, as are you. I can also see why you get such a good finish with your composite mold Green and Shell clever.......

[Bert]

Thank you very much for sharing all of your hard work with us.
:not::not:

[husaberg]

To save clogging up the ESE thread i will put it here.

RE 2 stroke air cooled cylinder with Aprilia like porting :scratch:
I guess i are over simplifying it.
but a simple male made out of a cut up say DKW125 or Sach MX cylinder
http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/maL6c_7OVAihRGKemL5NnIw.jpghttp://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mT97rn_sgE_0XU9JhBsHu2g.jpghttp://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mZxx7sG7y2SaJg_JiLb9ffw.jpg
cut in half with the areas bogged up to accommodate the PV etc with the CO2 set sand core for the transfers and bore would that work? as any voids would become in effect alloy.
I guess the drafts and radius's might need a little extra work.

For Neil i have posted this before (somewhere) it is a neat mix of Tech and old school i love his and his contacts work.
http://flashbackfab.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Saddle-Heads-4.jpghttp://flashbackfab.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Head-Tube-Engine-Cases-1.jpghttp://flashbackfab.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Head-Tube-Engine-Cases-2.jpghttp://flashbackfab.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Frame-Update-4.jpg
http://flashbackfab.com/excelsior-project-paul-brodie/excelsior-mock-up/
http://flashbackfab.com/excelsior-project-paul-brodie/excelsior-engine-production/

[husaberg]

The head is easy, all my 350 heads have been cast at Thames. The cylinder? I've never cast an air cooled one, I've got the beginnings of patterns here to cast a 350 cylinder ( air cooled ) with modern porting inside but have never gone any further. Too busy dicking around with sleeves etc. I'm sure it would be not a big deal. The mould to make the sand mould ( outside ) would need to be steel I think and the core baked in shell sand. Or in this case lost wax system, maybe? A die is still needed to make the wax original anyway.
Surely a proper ( modern ) constructed 100 cc water cooled would be the go? Perhaps making it a two cylinder with vairable rotary valves.
If E85 were legal, then air cooled would be less of a problem. Internal liquid / vapor cooling.
Having the original core boxes for that cylinder ( you show in the picture ) would be a big help.

these old things oh i was planning on using them for kindling........:innocent:

[Flettner]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4525_zps4b279c9c.jpg

Here is a sad looking 350 cylinder. The problem with using an original to copy from is the surface finish. You will need to polish the fins smooth, with no undulations as the taper is so slight that it takes very little of a blemish to hook up and break the sand copy ( mould ). Better off to build each fin layer by layer, that way its easy to access the surfaces as you build the pattern up. Note the gaps in the fins , these were always said to be there to aid cooling, crap, these are there to offer some support from sand fin to sand fin ( sand mould strength ). You just have to see things in reverse all the time, funny thing, I somtimes have trouble seeing things the right way round!

[Flettner]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4526_zpseb3f1fd4.jpg

Should find some cases for the sleeve cylinder in here somwhere.

[Flettner]

Possibly already shown this photo? The 360 cases ready to machine, heat treated to T6. right hand case is nearly finish machined now.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4507_zps5b74b494.jpg

[F5 Dave]

. . .
Note the gaps in the fins , these were always said to be there to aid cooling, crap, these are there to offer some support from sand fin to sand fin ( sand mould strength ). You just have to see things in reverse all the time, funny thing, I somtimes have trouble seeing things the right way round!
I always thought they were for the rubber dampers but now you say it it is so obvious. Thanks for edumacating us.

[jasonu]

I always thought they were for the rubber dampers but now you say it it is so obvious. Thanks for edumacating us.

Maybe a case of double duty.

[Pumba]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/other/auction-677592908.htm

[Flettner]

Here is a home foundry, 60L drum with rockwool lined inside. Burner is powered by Tellus and fueled by Ethanol ( with a hint of castor ). Crucible, ceramic type. Gravity is the fuel pump.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/H6107.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/H6118.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/H6117.jpg

[Flettner]

Ready to pour, safety is my middle name! Fire is from magnesium powder poured onto the risers

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/H6110.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/H6135.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/H6139.jpg

[Flettner]

The finished item

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/H6161_zps519e2ac4.jpg

Ready to fly

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/H6440.jpg

[husaberg]

Rob posted this by mistake kind off.........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhtI02aHSnI&list=LLg1Ze1muy87n3mkhOHMXVSg

[husaberg]

........

Neil the bridges on the Cylinder and head fining Is it because it is a 4 piece mold, and it makes it easier to make a neat join? or to support the mold? or both?

[WilDun]

Thank you guys for a most informative thread,
I have been looking everywhere for this sort of stuff especially in NZ and hadn't actually thought of consulting a biker forum!

I am 70 now (near enough) and retired from 'hands on' engineering and trying to set up a home workshop.
Engines, especially bikes and aircraft were my life when I was younger, but I never lost interest.
Got a chance during one period of my career to do draw up some patterns and coreboxes (and manufacture them) and loved it, but family pressures kept me out of foundry work (ie as a hobby).

I'm much too old and infirm to be riding bikes now and too poor to be flying planes, but I'm still keen on foundry work and machining and now that I've found this site right here in NZ, I think I've got the inspiration to at least have a go at it! - I do hope that I may be able to ask you a few questions now and again. :-

First question being, where's the best place to buy a decent crucible, clay,sand etc. around here? (ie Auckland/upper North Island).

Cheers,
Will.

[TZ350]

Hi Will, welcome and please post about your progress with pictures if you can.

[Flettner]

Neil the bridges on the Cylinder and head fining Is it because it is a 4 piece mold, and it makes it easier to make a neat join? or to support the mold? or both?

Remember, what you are looking at ( in the sand mould ) is a hole ( to allow metal to flow through ), not a sand connecting bridge.

Where you want metal, no sand core where you do want metal, sand core.

Those connections you are looking at are gaps in the sand, not sand joining the cores together.

[WilDun]

Hi Will, welcome and please post about your progress with pictures if you can.

Thanks for the welcome, I'm still finding my way on this forum even though I had joined it a while ago.
All this foundry stuff for me is a windfall, finding it right on my doorstep after looking all over the net and is of great interest to me at the moment.
My expertise in this area is very limited at best but they say it's never too late to learn!

I am also interested in new engine ideas (as a hobbyist) and I am trying to decipher the design of the uniflow two stroke experiment from the pics of the patterns and castings on this forum.
No doubt, there is a good explanation for it all somewhere else but I'll have to do some checking through the posts.

As I see it so far, it is an experiment in the development of a reciprocating (and non oscillating?) sleeve valve two stroke uniflow engine, with the sleeve reciprocating at engine speed and maybe driven by a twin crank? - but then, I've probably gone right off course here!

With a lack of info on it, I can't see how the sleeve will actually seal the compression going to tdc as there seems to be no seal, but as I say the info is a bit sparse as yet, but hopefully as I become more familiar with the forum, I will be enlightened by someone - maybe even by HUSABERG, FLETTNER, or whoever is behind it all.

I'm sorry, but I don't as yet know what team ESE actually is, but my guess is, it's a bucket racing team. I haven't really had much to do with Bucket Racers but my local track is probably Mt. Wellington and I haven't been there for a very long time!


PS. How wrong could I be about ESE - sorry!

[speedpro]

You got it right about ESE. They are a bucket racing team and do a bit of environmental engineering on the side. You only need to check the workshop and around Rob's desk upstairs to confirm it.

[Flettner]

Thank you guys for a most informative thread,


First question being, where's the best place to buy a decent crucible, clay,sand etc. around here? (ie Auckland/upper North Island).

Cheers,
Will.

Foseco Ltd

David at 09 267 7658

And

Industrial sands Ltd 09 833 7576

[Flettner]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4674_zps5ce9d7e5.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4673_zpsf83ee92e.jpg

360 engine cases are being machined, as time allows.

[Cheesy]

Thanks for the welcome, I'm still finding my way on this forum even though I had joined it a while ago.
All this foundry stuff for me is a windfall, finding it right on my doorstep after looking all over the net and is of great interest to me at the moment.
My expertise in this area is very limited at best but they say it's never too late to learn!

I am also interested in new engine ideas (as a hobbyist) and I am trying to decipher the design of the uniflow two stroke experiment from the pics of the patterns and castings on this forum.
No doubt, there is a good explanation for it all somewhere else but I'll have to do some checking through the posts.

As I see it so far, it is an experiment in the development of a reciprocating (and non oscillating?) sleeve valve two stroke uniflow engine, with the sleeve reciprocating at engine speed and maybe driven by a twin crank? - but then, I've probably gone right off course here!

With a lack of info on it, I can't see how the sleeve will actually seal the compression going to tdc as there seems to be no seal, but as I say the info is a bit sparse as yet, but hopefully as I become more familiar with the forum, I will be enlightened by someone - maybe even by HUSABERG, FLETTNER, or whoever is behind it all.

I'm sorry, but I don't as yet know what team ESE actually is, but my guess is, it's a bucket racing team. I haven't really had much to do with Bucket Racers but my local track is probably Mt. Wellington and I haven't been there for a very long time!


PS. How wrong could I be about ESE - sorry!

Before you go designing a new engine (even if you arent it would be interesting read anyway) see if you can get hold of "Some Unusual Engines" by L. J. K Setright (1975) . Almost none of these "new" engines you see CAD images of on the net are actually new and the problems are still the same as they were 40 years ago, although material development and manufacturing processes can mitigate to some degree.

[WilDun]

Before you go designing a new engine (even if you arent it would be interesting read anyway) see if you can get hold of "Some Unusual Engines" by L. J. K Setright (1975) . Almost none of these "new" engines you see CAD images of on the net are actually new and the problems are still the same as they were 40 years ago, although material development and manufacturing processes can mitigate to some degree.


Thanks to Flettner etc.for pointing me in the right direction re: crucibles and foundry supplies.

Yes CHEESY,
I have read the book, it's a very good book indeed - I went to the library around 1980 and photocopied the lot and read the most relevant stuff (to me) over and over and got plenty of inspiration for a few things as well, managing to use those original descriptions and drawings for myself and build on them, I have had this on paper for quite some time and thought it was time to get moving and at least TRY to make them work.

So I have the book in a ringbinder! - it seems that an original is now an expensive collector's item!

However, I am old enough and wise enough to realise that as they say, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". so, until the time I get them actually working, I will be regarded by many as a complete "tosser".

[Flettner]

However, I am old enough and wise enough to realise that as they say, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". so, until the time I get them actually working, I will be regarded by many as a complete "tosser".

Hey, join the club!

Half the fun is in building anyway.

[WilDun]

Hey, join the club!

I was going to go to the "recluse convention" and see if I could join their club, but the "tossers" club sounds (marginally) more appealing now that I know that there are a few others around! :rolleyes:

I don't really want to hijack this good thread, but thanks for all the replies, so now I'll concentrate on getting things gradually set up.

Think I'll just follow Tubal Cain's foundry tutorials from square one and that should at least get me started, - anybody know how I can get them (the videos) downloaded permanently?

Thanks,
Will.

[Yow Ling]

Hi Will, if you want to capture a youTube video you can use download helper, its a plugin for firefox

Here is link http://www.downloadhelper.net/

Seems to work ok

[WilDun]

Hi Will, if you want to capture a youTube video you can use download helper, its a plugin for firefox





Bit wary about downloading these things unless Norton etc. verify that they're safe, I do have Firefox though, but seldom use it.

[F5 Dave]

I'd trust Firefox before anything Microsoft.

[GerbilGronk]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2nuI_QG8Ff0?list=UUoYhqhrdK9On_IfKGD31hGA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Pouring the metal for the YZ360 Crankcases. These could just a s easily be cases for a bucket.......:2thumbsup

[F5 Dave]

Thanks for taking the time to show us this.

[koba]

Yeah, cool vid's too.
I was asking myself, what is the Magnesium for when it told me!

[gamma500]

Flettner thanks for explaining the sand casting process!

Please post more pictures of your projects when you do this kind of stuff again.

[Flettner]

We are all just lucky Dave ( GerbilGronk ) has a video camera and takes the time to record this stuff.
I just want the end product!

[husaberg]

Neil, you might want to point out to Dave he is signed in a a Blokess?;)

[Flettner]

Ha Ha so her is.

[GerbilGronk]

My balls have just dropped. Once I retrieved them from the old girls handbag.

[WilDun]

Hi Will, if you want to capture a youTube video you can use download helper, its a plugin for firefox



k

YOW LING,
Thanks for the link, I have downloaded the Tubal Cain foundry tutorials from You Tube.
It was no problem at all to add the plugin to Firefox, so I will now have them on hand and easily locatable till I don't need them anymore. Now checking out Foseco for a suitale crucible.
Some people are telling me not to use an iron or steel pot for aluminium, but I see that some people do that and apparently have no problem with iron contamination??

FLETTNER.
Good video, - I'm impressed with the casting, of course you are way ahead in this scene and with the machining equipment.
However, I now have the bones of a home machine shop and of course plenty of time to try and catch up with you, (yeah right).
I'll probably just stick to model size engine experiments to begin with.

Dunno what happened to my balls, I had forgotten all about them! :laugh:

Cheers,
Will.

[husaberg]

YOW LING,

Some people are telling me not to use an iron or steel pot for aluminium, but I see that some people do that and apparently have no problem with iron contamination??



Some people use flower pots........(i am not implying you should btw)
with the iron i depends if you want to use them for a structural purpose whether you would be worried about the contamination or not

[Flettner]

No problem with a steel pot so long as you coat it first. There are some foundry ( ceramics I think ) that are spray on able that will stop the iron dissolving into the alloy, But a proper crucible is best in the lomg run.

[Pumba]

Crucible

http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/manufacturing-metalwork/other/auction-682382110.htm

[WilDun]

Crucible

]

FLETTNER, PLUMBA.

I think that the crucible on Trade Me is much too big, I will need something a little smaller and lighter. Also I have been told that it is not good to use graphite crucibles with ally. (silicon carbide ok. maybe?)
I'll try Pyrotek (just down the road) next week for supplies, also hopefully I can also get some helpful tips from them too. - Foseco is a lot further away, although they sounded as though they might be helpful too over the phone.

Will.

[gamma500]

flettner, do you think lost foam technique would be usable for casting prototype cylinders? Those foam patterns could be cut with cnc, its not good for mass production, but maybe one offs?

[Bert]

flettner, do you think lost foam technique would be usable for casting prototype cylinders? Those foam patterns could be cut with cnc, its not good for mass production, but maybe one offs?

I'm glad you asked that, I've been thinking about the same thing; and packing up the voids and hoping it all works???

Looking forward to hearing Flettners opinion..

[Flettner]

Maybe? I haven't had a lot to do with foam type patterns. I would think if you have the solid model and a CNC you would just cut the core boxes straight out ( of steel ). The main pattern would also just be cut from ( what ever material you want ) soild without the build up process like I do.

Funny thing is, I have solid model design program and a CNC yet I still build my cylinders like I've shown here. The reason I did it this way on this forum is to show that you don't need all that fancy stuff to build a good useable cylinder ( also with ability for limited production ).
Plastic beads, hot glue and bondi. Low tec and available everywhere.

[husaberg]

Maybe? I haven't had a lot to do with foam type patterns. I would think if you have the solid model and a CNC you would just cut the core boxes straight out ( of steel ). The main pattern would also just be cut from ( what ever material you want ) soild without the build up process like I do.

Funny thing is, I have solid model design program and a CNC yet I still build my cylinders like I've shown here. The reason I did it this way on this forum is to show that you don't need all that fancy stuff to build a good useable cylinder ( also with ability for limited production ).
Plastic beads, hot glue and bondi. Low tec and available everywhere.

Me myself and i would like to see a bit more of the design process esp around the crankcases patterns i have seen Neils stuff on the 2 stroke MX thread (http://twostrokemotocross.com/forum/general-two-stroke-talk/yz-250-efi/30/). But i still want to know the details arround matching it to the original gearbox etc.

I see doing the patterns as neil does as a advantage as you can see the finish project in 3d at full scale without have to zoom in and out etc as with a Cad model.

[Flettner]

First I harvest the relevant information Yamaha left for me in their cases, shaft centers etc, X , Y and Z co-ordanence. Usually done in the manual milling machine.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4840_zps8eda7118.jpg

Then imput data into the computer that runs the CNC.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4841_zps16e45529.jpg

Then apply cut paths and tools and do the job on the computer screen long before it gets to the CNC.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4842_zps85eed07c.jpg

Glue suitable bits of board together

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4526_zpseb3f1fd4.jpg

Press the button on the CNC, shut the door and wait.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_0818_zps3c49ecb9.jpg

Just like that, well it's not quite that simple but you get the picture. I program the computer to put taper on everything and also can tell it to account for shrinkage so the casting ends up the right size ( casting will end up smaller than the pattern ).

[Flettner]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4843_zps4a95d52b.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4844_zps15162be3.jpg

Finally the gear cutters have turned up, four months from order! Here we are cutting some gears for the Hobb it self, a 12 DP cutter.
Now have 1.75 , 2 , 2.25 , 2.5 and 3 Modual cutters and one 8mm pitch tooth belt drive cutter. ( HTD type ), seen in the picture.

[Yow Ling]

Early Christmas present Flettner didnt take you long to fire it up.
I splashed out today and ordered some Rencast, so I better get off my arse and start building something flash.

[WilDun]

I would think if you have the solid model and a CNC you would just cut the core boxes straight out ( of steel ). The main pattern would also just be cut from ( what ever material you want ) soild without the build up process like I do.



At the risk of butting in with a dumb idea,
if you do have all the cnc machining centres etc, and are going through all the effort of cutting casting patterns and coreboxes from CI, steel, ally etc, is there any reason why you can't machine complete cases from solid, good quality ally, cutting out the casting process? - ie. if you're only doing a one or two off of course, - (probably not ideal for production runs I guess).

[speedpro]

With the latest cases it's a matter of being discrete.

[Flettner]

Yes, no problem to cut direct out of an alloy block. Two things though, the alloy block is usually very expensive ( 6061 T6 say ) and if there is any change or mistake you have to buy another piece of alloy and start again. Can get very expensive.
If you have a pattern, changes are quick and cheap, castings are also cost effective, usually I get two sets done so I've got spare just incase. CC601 cast properly and heat treated to T6 is a very strong alloy.

Yow Ling, you will like working with the Rencast, just be careful with handleing it, follow the instructions I don't think it's a hell of a good for you.

[WilDun]

Can get very expensive.
If you have a pattern, changes are quick and cheap,

That answers my question and I guess the big thing with development work is the ability to make changes quickly and cheaply! By the way, what would the cost saving be between 6061 and cc601 be (say as a percentage)?

Cheers,
Will.

[Flettner]

At the end of the day I suppose it depends on whether you are paying for the pattern making or not. I'm not, so it's much cheaper. Percentage? Well I pay about $80 for each case. A lump of alloy to cut a case ( half crank case ) from would have to be $350 - $400?

[Grumph]

At the end of the day I suppose it depends on whether you are paying for the pattern making or not. I'm not, so it's much cheaper. Percentage? Well I pay about $80 for each case. A lump of alloy to cut a case ( half crank case ) from would have to be $350 - $400?

Also depends on the complexity of the part....for instance Norton Commando crankcases are being done from solid on CNC in Hamilton.
I've seen them and they're very nice, strong...and expensive. And they're pretty simple too.

[WilDun]

At the end of the day I suppose it depends on whether you are paying for the pattern making or not. I'm not, so it's much cheaper. Percentage? Well I pay about $80 for each case. A lump of alloy to cut a case ( half crank case ) from would have to be $350 - $400?

FLETTNER,
Wow! - I do see your point, much much cheaper!
Guess I knew that if you were running your own business then you'd have a damn good reason for doing it that way, I just didn't know exactly what that reason would be!

Basically you are doing the sort of stuff I could have and really wanted to do, ie. if I had got off my ass and listened to myself! - Instead I worked hard ( machining & maintenance) to bring up a family who couldn't tell the difference between a crankcase and an exhaust pipe but who still manage to see me as a 'common tradesman' ! :laugh: - still happy I was though.

Look forward with interest to your future forays into experimental engines etc, keep it up.

GRUMPH,
Guess the Commando crankcases must be going to America then, - they'd have to be
strong to hold that beast of a crank fighting to cope with two pistons going up and down together at racing speeds and conditions! :eek:

Cheers,
Will.

[koba]

Will, you should build a bucket.

[WilDun]

Will, you should build a bucket.

Yes, I'd like to build a bucket but for someone else to ride - not me!
Don't know a lot about buckets, but it might just be a lot of fun, never was a great mechanic though, more into building than tuning.
Too many mobility problems to risk throwing a leg over a bike now and I would just like to concentrate on building my workshop and foundry and hopefully get a lot of tips here, (forum).

I 'designed' and built a frame in about 1969 and cobbled up a special motor (2xAriel Arrow engines joined together), went, when it went, but not often, good fun though and was more rideable with just one 250cc engine.

I was banned from riding bikes in the early eighties when I hit a dog (it tried to take out my front wheel). I went over the handlebars and broke my knee - didn't help the family when I couldn't work for quite a while!

Sorry everyone, for getting off track - I should be asleep right now but I just got up for a while and got sidetracked :rolleyes:

Cheers
Will.

[TZ350]

I 'designed' and built a frame in about 1969 and cobbled up a special motor (2xAriel Arrow engines joined together), went, when it went, but not often, good fun though and was more rideable with just one 250cc engine.

Now that is very interesting, any photos and more details?

I have some Ariel bits and am keen to build a clasic racer.

The ESE thread would be keen to hear about your Ariel adventures.

[WilDun]

Now that is very interesting, any photos and more details?

I have some Ariel bits and am keen to build a clasic racer.

The ESE thread would be keen to hear about your Ariel adventures.

Yes, but I guess I'd better move to that thread as I'm hijacking Flettner's excellent thread here, sorry :facepalm:

Will.

[Flettner]

It's not my thread, but I'm happy to use it.

[Flettner]

Early Christmas present Flettner didnt take you long to fire it up.
I splashed out today and ordered some Rencast, so I better get off my arse and start building something flash.

Best I get into gear to, I haven't even started the 175 cylinder yet ( well sort of ). Too much time pissing around with gear hobbs and 360 engines!

[WilDun]

It's not my thread, but I'm happy to use it.

Ok then. sorry YOW LING, I haven't got the hang of things as yet! :confused:

[Yow Ling]

Ok then. sorry YOW LING, I haven't got the hang of things as yet! :confused:

Hey Will its public, anyone with something interesting to add is welcome.

[WilDun]

Hey Will its public, anyone with something interesting to add is welcome.

True but it's good if it stays close to the original theme.
Of course, I could start another thread but then I'd probably run out of steam.
The ESE thread is just too massive (very interesting in the early pages though) but now it's becoming just too much to read through all the little arguments.

Seems to me that threads should be closed down after a max of say 25 - 30 pages or so and whoever wanted to could start another thread if they had something interesting and different to say!

I hope this doesn't help to change the course of this one, but the longer it goes on, the more it will stray off course, but I'm sure someone here will still have more interesting offerings, maybe even you or me if we actually get our foundry ambitions off the ground and we'll at least be able no doubt to show others what NOT to do! :facepalm:

Cheers,
Will

[Bert]

True but it's good if it stays close to the original theme.
Of course, I could start another thread but then I'd probably run out of steam.
The ESE thread is just too massive (very interesting in the early pages though) but now it's becoming just too much to read through all the little arguments.

Seems to me that threads should be closed down after a max of say 25 - 30 pages or so and whoever wanted to could start another thread if they had something interesting and different to say!

I hope this doesn't help to change the course of this one, but the longer it goes on, the more it will stray off course, but I'm sure someone here will still have more interesting offerings, maybe even you or me if we actually get our foundry ambitions off the ground and we'll at least be able no doubt to show others what NOT to do! :facepalm:

Cheers,
Will

Will; the ESE thread gets a lot better once you get past the silly spats by SS90 and others (trying to derail stuff)...
Once Husa, Speedpro, wobbly, Frits really get going it becomes one of the best two stroke develop threads (open to the public) on the net. TZ starts summaries on decade page from page 400 (I think)... There is very cool snips of information...

[speedpro]

Once Husa, Speedpro, wobbly, Fitz really get going it becomes one of the best two stroke develop threads (open to the public) on the net. ...

That's a bit embarrassing, actually, REALLY embarrassing

[husaberg]

That's a bit embarrassing, actually, REALLY embarrassing

I feel for you Mike and Wayne and Frits.
I am totally utterly unworthy....
Brent do you want it in cash or direct debit......
i have tried googling stuff lately and the web is utterly chocka of ESE pics and posts now. Rob should be proud.
I just wish Jan would post, i catch him visiting there every so often.
Neils stuff is utterly amazing. Very inspirational.

[speedpro]

I've already decided if I won Lotto I'd be buying a big shed (next to Neil's) and inviting a few people we know to come and build stuff, for money of course. I reckon it's only money that is holding a few people back from building some truly outrageous things. A 750 V6 2T is one I know is just sitting there stagnating. Rob would have his own shed as most things don't need to be that complicated.

[WilDun]

Now that is very interesting, any photos and more details?

I have some Ariel bits and am keen to build a clasic racer.

The ESE thread would be keen to hear about your Ariel adventures.


Might just send a PM instead,
I have checked out (some) of the ESE thread and thoroughly enjoyed a lot of the stuff, but as for breaking into that massive thread and describing my "Ariel Special" I don't think so!

There will be so much good info gone to waste through the thread becoming so big and cumbersome, an average new person like myself takes a look through it and thinks, "it's just too difficult sifting through this mix to extract the stuff I want" (which is there of course), so I get fed up, shut down and go to bed.
A limit to thread size I say, 1000 odd pages isn't so good, unless people are more interested in getting into the Guiness Record Book than they are in bikes! - I actually go to sleep at the computer sometimes and wake myself up snoring! - you've got to think of us oldies! :oi-grr:

Anyway my Ariel adventures didn't really amount to a lot but, I did enjoy the building and experimenting - that all ended when I fell in love with the Suzuki T20, fastest 250 around at the time, (late sixties), not perfect but it got around the street circuits in fine style (ie when I got my head around the bad handling etc.!).

Cheers,
Will.

[Bert]

?......
There will be so much good info gone to waste through the thread becoming so big and cumbersome, an average new person like myself takes a look through it and thinks, "it's just too difficult sifting through this mix to extract the stuff I want" (which is there of course), so I get fed up, shut down and go to bed.
A limit to thread size I say, 1000 odd pages isn't so good, unless people are more interested in getting into the Guiness Record Book than they are in bikes! - I actually go to sleep at the computer sometimes and wake myself up snoring! - you've got to think of us oldies! :oi-grr:
.......
Cheers,
Will.

I guess thats why Rob ended up doing the decadial summaries.
You can flick through and find stuff of interest. Page 660 will summaries the gems from the last 10 pages...

Mike: lotto win, would you build us a frame department???

[speedpro]

Of course. The real problem will be finding someone to fabricate the pipes for the V6

[F5 Dave]

kidnap Nigel & put him in a dank hole with some tin snips & some oxy/ace bottles till he produces something akin to on his 500.

[WilDun]

Hey Will its public, anyone with something interesting to add is welcome.

Yow Ling,
Have you settled on what type of crucible you are going to use for ally? - also what type of furnace to build?
I haven't as yet really got going, but I'm trying to get my gas bottle hitched up to a simple burner and fan system.

Don't think any of my patternmaking is going to be in Flettner's league but it should be fun trying.
Some people are interested already, but I want to keep it all low key and out of sight till I can actually produce some castings and have something to show for my talk!

Did you finish your dyno?

Cheers,
Will.

[Yow Ling]

Yow Ling,
Have you settled on what type of crucible you are going to use for ally? - also what type of furnace to build?
I haven't as yet really got going, but I'm trying to get my gas bottle hitched up to a simple burner and fan system.

Don't think any of my patternmaking is going to be in Flettner's league but it should be fun trying.
Some people are interested already, but I want to keep it all low key and out of sight till I can actually produce some castings and have something to show for my talk!

Did you finish your dyno?

Cheers,
Will.

Hi Will, furnace wise I just found one on trademe I had to make a new burner for it, I had a 3 phase industrial blower which I run at 6hz , its just a babys breath but its all it can handle.

making a burner was pretty simple , the body is made from a USD fork tube, jet is just a 2mm hole.

Still only have my steel tube crucible , when I get a barrel cast I will pay the man to do it properly, when you find a good range of crucibles put up a link here , my furnace is 300 deep and 250 diameter

My idea for casting a cylinder is to use a Suzuki one as the pattern for the outside and just make some cores for a 3 port exhaust and Use vinamold to take a copy of the existing transfers and alter them a little.
Havnt quite figured out the waterjacket yet.
I understand the say nothing till you have something to show , but Im quite a way into this with nothing to show and its too late to turn back !

Dyno goes and is pretty cool tool to have in the shed, my Mrs wont let me ride in the driveway anymore after a small accident and hospital stay, anyway dyno is much more honest than my roadside dyno.

[Flettner]

Hi Will, furnace wise I just found one on trademe I had to make a new burner for it, I had a 3 phase industrial blower which I run at 6hz , its just a babys breath but its all it can handle.

making a burner was pretty simple , the body is made from a USD fork tube, jet is just a 2mm hole.

Still only have my steel tube crucible , when I get a barrel cast I will pay the man to do it properly, when you find a good range of crucibles put up a link here , my furnace is 300 deep and 250 diameter

My idea for casting a cylinder is to use a Suzuki one as the pattern for the outside and just make some cores for a 3 port exhaust and Use vinamold to take a copy of the existing transfers and alter them a little.
Havnt quite figured out the waterjacket yet.
I understand the say nothing till you have something to show , but Im quite a way into this with nothing to show and its too late to turn back !

Dyno goes and is pretty cool tool to have in the shed, my Mrs wont let me ride in the driveway anymore after a small accident and hospital stay, anyway dyno is much more honest than my roadside dyno.

When I build my cylinders, I don't know what the outside is going to look like ( apart from the important bits like the flanges etc ), as it's a function of all the cores glued together, then thickness added. Start from the inside out, do all the cores first, then the outside wil be what it needs to be ( to cover everything with metal thickness ) . Thats what the plastic beads do, make room ( in the sand mould ) for metal to flow between the cores and the outside shape. Bead diameter will dictate wall thickness in the finished casting.

[WilDun]

Thats what the plastic beads do, make room ( in the sand mould ) for metal to flow between the cores and the outside shape. Bead diameter will dictate wall thickness in the finished casting.

FLETTNER
Sorry, I may have missed something somewhere, I do understand that the plastic beads are used to build up a space for the metal to form the wall which holds everything in one piece ie between the core and pattern, (it's all new to me ) but what kind and size of plastic beads are you talking about? it seems to me that you use just one layer of beads to gauge the wall thickness and keep it uniform and I'm supposing that you use them in conjunction with some sort of filler/resin? Are they polystyrene beads? expanded? micro balloon type filler? -I'm learning something new here every day!

Do you ever make use of expandable polystyrene beads? seems they are available now (maybe have been for a while) - I dunno.

I think I found where you got the inspiration for the sleeve valve engine by the way, I heard about that engine before and didn't go into finding the details about it but I hadn't realised it was a two stroke! - asking a lot of that sleeve at crank speeds!

Then again, maybe I've gone completely off track with everything :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Will.

[F5 Dave]

Great. - Now we have to hear his Transvestite story again:nya:

[Flettner]

Twice is bad enough!
I use BB gun pellets, aprox 6mm dia, hot glue and bondi fill.

[WilDun]

Came back to check out bikes after a lot of years away, I haven't had time to go through everything as yet, but bikes and techniques appear to have changed for the better over the years,...... people haven't.......
Same old story, some are clever and arrogant when young, then become old and silly before their time - seen them self destruct so many times! - not pleasant to watch!

[husaberg]

Came back to check out bikes after a lot of years away, I haven't had time to go through everything as yet, but bikes and techniques appear to have changed for the better over the years,...... people haven't.......
Same old story, some are clever and arrogant when young, then become old and silly before their time - seen them self destruct so many times! - not pleasant to watch!

The idea of the plastic beads is to build up a uniform layer equivalent to the diameter of the beads.
its not a filler but allows to sand down to a certain measurement with ease. they have to be hard to let you know when you send down. i think the expanded poly balls might also melt with some fillers i know polystyrene hates petrol got instance.

Neils use of beads is fiendishly clever in in its shear simplicity... (slipped in a pantyhose joke) oh and an underwear one.....

[WilDun]

The idea of the plastic beads is to build up a uniform layer equivalent to the diameter of the beads.
its not a filler but allows to sand down to a certain measurement with ease. they have to be hard to let you know when you send down. i think the expanded poly balls might also melt with some fillers i know polystyrene hates petrol got instance.

Neils use of beads is fiendishly clever in in its shear simplicity... (slipped in a pantyhose joke) oh and an underwear one.....

HUSABERG,
Yes that is a good idea of Neil's, never had a BB gun so haven't seen the pellets (as yet), It takes a lot of mental acrobatics to visualise this stuff if you're not used to it, but I think I'm beginning to grasp it!

I could think of another use for a BB gun here too, but maybe I'd better keep it to myself!

[190mech]

Will,There are lots of pics showing the plastic BB's in use on the Team ESE thread;

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/86554-ESE-s-works-engine-tuner/page880

Many details are posted on pages before that one!

[WilDun]

Will,There are lots of pics showing the plastic BB's in use on the Team ESE thread;

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/86554-ESE-s-works-engine-tuner/page880

Many details are posted on pages before that one!

Thanks 190 Mech, Flettner, Husaberg, Yow Ling, TZ, Bert and all you others who took the time to give me sensible answers and are bearing with me.
As you can see, I just haven't had time to do anything other than glance through this mass of stuff and have missed a lot. I'm beginning to go through it more thoroughly now and have more of an understanding of how the plastic pellets are used etc.

Cheers,
Will.

[WilDun]

i think the expanded poly balls might also melt with some fillers i know polystyrene hates petrol for instance.



Yes, I guessed that, but I was just wondering if anyone has come across expandable polystyrene beads/pellets (not for this application of course but I could use them on another project).
Anyone know where they might be available?

[Cheesy]

Yes, I guessed that, but I was just wondering if anyone has come across expandable polystyrene beads/pellets (not for this application of course but I could use them on another project).
Anyone know where they might be available?

You mean like bean bags? try the Warehouse they have them 40L bags I think

[WilDun]

You mean like bean bags? try the Warehouse they have them 40L bags I think

Not really sure what I mean to be truthful, but I believe that with heat,or maybe some sort of gas, they will expand and produce expanded polystyrene as we know it.
If they are contained within a mould then it ends up whatever shape you desire. The packaging companies may use this system to secure goods in boxes - I don't know, but I just thought someone might know more about this stuff, as I heard that it is available.

Will.

[Yow Ling]

Will, I have seen what you are talking about at a factory that makes cycle helmets , unexpanded they are hard beads quite small, in the mould they are expanded with steam.
Places that make portacom style building panels , somebody will be blowing the expanded polystyrene for F+P for the washing maching packaging. For my purposes I have some urethane casting mmaterial coming this week, quite a different thing though

[WilDun]

Will, I have seen what you are talking about at a factory that makes cycle helmets , unexpanded they are hard beads quite small, in the mould they are expanded with steam.
I have some urethane casting material coming this week, quite a different thing though

Yes, those are the beads I'm talking about, but I guess I'l have to try the packaging people or someone like that, they don't appear to be on sale anywhere.
Yes I think I know the urethane type stuff you'te talking about, - I was asked once to turn some rubbery stuff called "lurethane" (which is a brand name) on the lathe - that was a mission, I think I actually ended up grinding it!
Is that going to replace the material you were trying out at the beginning of the thread?

Will.

[Yow Ling]

Plenty of great foundry stuff in here, they work hard !


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bT6txm4RpA

[WilDun]

Foundry work is very interesting of course, ie if you are building your own project in your own little environment, but I think that working under those conditions all day and every day, would sure change my mind!

The video doesn't include the dust and smells there would have been! - probably most modern type foundries will have a lot of improvements here and there, but all the development going on in China etc wil be creating a lot of wasteland, just as it did in America and Europe in the past.

[WilDun]

YOW LING,
Was checking out crucibles today and have found a seemingly good supplier in Auckland :-
METCAST in Otahuhu. (09 276 5822) -

I had a good look at them and decided that probably an A8 size ( 8" top outside dia.) might be suitable for my purpose and I will build a furnace to suit the crucible size from some sort of refractory "concrete".

All their smaller crucibles were clay/graphite and I think the one I looked at (A8) was around $65 - $70 + gst.

I have talked to a few people now and opinions vary widely about whether it is necessary to use a ceramic crucible as opposed to a steel one and I see some very accomplished foundry people using steel, S/S, cast iron etc. to good effect, leading me to believe that it's a matter of experimentation!

I must say that fabricating a steel one, or using a S/S pot of some sort would be the way to go if you weren't too fussy!

Will.

[Flettner]

I'm not sure what the problem is? $70 is a bargin! I just talked to Adam at Heat Treatments, he says iron dissolved into CC601 from a steel crucible will ruin it's heat treatment qualities, no question. It depends on what type of castings you want, heat treated high strength - or not.

You don't need a heavy brick furnace, I used a 60L drum lined with a Rockwool blanket pushed onto small pins welded through from the outside of the drum. Light, simple and relitivly durable, ( and cheap ).

[Yow Ling]

Yea, way too easy, ordered one this afternoon

[WilDun]

I'm not sure what the problem is? $70 is a bargin!

You don't need a heavy brick furnace, I used a 60L drum lined with a Rockwool blanket pushed onto small pins welded through from the outside of the drum. .

Yes you're right, I'm probably just a tight arse old pensioner - taking the plunge is probably as hard as any other part I guess!
I had almost settled on an 8" clay/graphite crucible anyway and had a lot of ideas on a furnace (also have an unlimited supply of ceramic fibre offcuts).
So I'll get the crucible I had picked out, you guys have convinced me now and I'll get things underway instead of blabbering on.
I'll start with the corebox, patterns etc. on my lathe in the way you have been describing Rob - many thanks for the patient answers.

Is 'Vinamold' the way to go for all the intricate inner passages and other parts? or are there other good ways of copying?



Cheers,
Will.

[mr bucketracer]

Yes you're right, guess I'm probably just a tight arse old pensioner - taking the plunge is probably as hard as any other part I guess!
I had almost settled on an 8" clay/graphite crucible anyway and had a lot of ideas on a furnace (also have an unlimited supply of ceramic fibre offcuts).
So I'll get the crucible I had picked out, you guys have convinced me now and I'll get things underway instead of blabbering on.
I'll start with the corebox, patterns etc. on my lathe in the way you have been describing Rob - many thanks for the patient answers.

Is Vimold the way to go for all the intricate inner passages and other parts? or are there other good ways of copying?



Cheers,
Will.what rest home are you in ?

[WilDun]

what rest home are you in ?

Which Rest Home? - Cuckooland Care Centre,
I was racing bikes only yesterday, you'll be in Cuckoo land tomorrow (believe me).
So If you've got something really worthwhile to say, you need to say it now!
Time flies.

[mr bucketracer]

Which Rest Home? - Cuckooland Care Centre,
I was racing bikes only yesterday, you'll be in Cuckoo land tomorrow (believe me!).
Time flies.already in a place like that but get to the bozzer somtimes and builds things in my dreams

[WilDun]

already in a place like that but get to the bozzer somtimes and builds things in my dreams

Thats the story mate! - never give up the dream!

[Yow Ling]

Is 'Vinamold' the way to go for all the intricate inner passages and other parts? or are there other good ways of copying?



Cheers,
Will.

Vinamold is amazing stuff, it easily copies complex curves and shapes, then easy to remove, if babies were made out of Vinamold there would be no more complaining about the pain of childbirth.

[WilDun]

Vinamold is amazing stuff, it easily copies complex curves and shapes, then easy to remove,

Sounds great,- is it expensive? where do you obtain it?

Will.

[Yow Ling]

Sounds great,- is it expensive? where do you obtain it?

Will.

Its $32 per kg http://fibreglassshop.co.nz/products/view/5/48/vinamold

can be reused many times so long as you dont burn it, i melt it with a heatgun in a metal cup
there are a few long winded tutorials on youtube , but really heat to 180°C pour into hole , let it cool , pull it out

[sonic_v]

I use a microwave and a jam jar. Set microwave to an intermediate power setting.

That price per kilo looks quite hefty compared to below.

http://www.mbfg.co.uk/vinamold/red-vinamould.html

[WilDun]

That price per kilo looks quite hefty compared to below.

http://www.mbfg.co.uk/vinamold/red-vinamould.html

True, but I bet that if I imported it here (say a couple of kg.), by the time it reached me it would be the same price! - I think a bit of scrounging around the craft suppliers, pattern shops etc. could bring the price down considerably!
On the other hand, for an individual like me, would it be worthwhile bothering in order to save a few cents buying a kg of the stuff?
The guys selling it have got it all sussed really!

Will.

[Yow Ling]

Also order today , get tomorrow. 8 quid a kg is $16 plus shipping , plus you are supporting the wrong economy.

[WilDun]

Also order today , get tomorrow.

Speaking of ordering, have you got your crucible yet?

[Yow Ling]

Speaking of ordering, have you got your crucible yet?

Arrives tomorrow, one more step along the way , still a few gaps to fill in, Rencast arrived last week, still waiting for the talent to arrive

[Flettner]

You can use micro ballons ( white powder ) to make your Rencast go a little further. I somtimes pack wood in the cavity to be poured to take up space ( less Rencast used ). You may end up with out of date Rencast, no problem, it just goes off faster as it gets older. I do all the micro and part A mixing first, then when mixed in good add the part B, mix quick and pour.

[WilDun]

I have been ringing up and visiting various refactory companies trying to find out who is interested in helping the "little foundryman" hard work but good advice and help from some.

The patternmaking part will be enjoyable but still a challenge as it will combine just about every skill I can muster!

Neill probably already knows all the pitfalls which I will be stepping blindly into, but then he climbed out ok, so here's hoping.


Cheers,
Will.

[Flettner]

Looks like I'm in the same boat, the foundry I use is closing down ( China has taken all the work ) seems I will have to restart my experimental home foundry again, bugger!

[F5 Dave]

What a shame for all the skilled workers in a niche market.

[WilDun]

Looks like I'm in the same boat, the foundry I use is closing down ( China has taken all the work ) seems I will have to restart my experimental home foundry again, bugger!

You might be able to buy some cheap gear.
Not funny in the circumstances I guess! :no:

What next? could it possibly be, that after designing a revolutionary engine, we will send the plans to China and in a few weeks a brand new motor all sorted out and for the cost of the material, will arrive on the doorstep (followed by a few thousand clones destined for the shop shelves!).

Like hell!

Kiwi Ingenuity needs to re-ignited! - Present company (Bucket racers) accepted.

Will.

[Flettner]

Don't get me started on China!
Yes there will probably be some cheap gear going but it's all big stuff. Poor bugger.
The thing is soon there will be no one left able to do decent castings, know the old tricks, yes Greg is certainly a skilled opperator. This is a very unfortunate situation ( I'm thinking selfishly also ).

[Grumph]

Two left in the SI as far as i know...Rangiora and Nelson.

Used to be four in the ChCh area alone....

[F5 Dave]

Wire makers used to be a bit up and down. Yeah it's a bit short sighted, if you look at history man is so often at war. In modern times, he who can out manufacture his oponent wins. Oh there'll never be another war. But why do you think the US was trying so hard to bolster the car industry? Well think.

[WilDun]

Oh there'll never be another war. But why do you think the US was trying so hard to bolster the car industry? Well think.

Maybe because it keeps the angry young men employed and busy, otherwise they would have to put them in the army, then they would have to go and find another war either to get rid of them or at least to keep this huge army occupied trying to prevent other rising powers from grabbing middle east oil!
Reckon it would be cheaper to put the money into bike tracks to get rid of all that surplus energy and aggression! :laugh:

But now, I want to do my bit to keep the foundry channel working, - has the fire finally gone out? :shit:

Will.

[Flettner]

No, just busy doing other stuff. I've been trying to get my Autogyro engine going again ( starter failed ) so I've been organising a different system ( starter gearbox ). The first unit I built was a bit flimsy so I got what I deserved. I'm using the new found usefulness of the gear hobb to make the starter gear drive with reverse load slipping clutch for gear tooth safety.

[WilDun]

Getting off track a little here, sorry, but I was checking out foundry ceramics - that sort of stuff and I came across this - we were talking about skilled people earlier, you've just got to see this!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB8TWMKHHMQ

All sped up here and there of course, but they are unbelievably good bricklayers, (like foundrymen)

They are Speaking Spanish I think so they may be from Central America / Mexico and I don't think anyone knows much more about brickwork than them!

By the way Neill, is that David Brown Gearcutter I saw in the background of your workshop a hobbing machine, or a gear shaper?
Will

[Flettner]

It's a hobb, maybe a gear shaper next.

[husaberg]

This is the Armstrong drawings and so forth they were for sale recently.


http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r529/scotiasam/Willys%20jeep/Armstrong.jpg

[Grumph]

Big pic is a sidecar installation. A guy was making them for Brit F2 chairs until the 4 strokes took over. I read somewhere he'd bought all the tooling from Armstrong. Not surprised they've come on the market again.

[WilDun]

Any more action in the metal pouring department these days?
There seemed to be a few quite interested people earlier, I hope that they continue to be! I also hope that Yow Ling is still persevering and gets there soon - I would maybe like to compare notes with some others as no doubt I'll eventually need a little help here and there.

I haven't got to the stage of melting quite yet but I'm still plodding along and at the moment getting my gas burner up and running. I've also got the ceramic materials needed to build the furnace just about ready to mix and that's all in the middle of trying to set up a workshop in half a two car garage.
I hate to think what the neighbours will say when I finally fire it all up!

Hoping the original thread hasn't petered out. :no:

Will.

[Yow Ling]

Hi Will, the thread will live again, I have most of my stuff sorted but am lacking some enthusiasm in the evenings. Winter will be here soon and Ill get back on track

[WilDun]

Hi Will, the thread will live again, I have most of my stuff sorted but am lacking some enthusiasm in the evenings. Winter will be here soon and Ill get back on track

Good to hear you're still working on it, I got sidetracked with the whole ceramics thing when trying to sort out clays and castable stuff etc. - it's a vast vast subject - helluva interesting too, I don't think I've got enough years (or brains) left to go into it too deeply!
But do keep going!

Will.

[koba]

There will still be plenty of people interested but as actually doing it is out of the time/space/ability resources of people like me we are relegated to spectating.

Keep up the show!

:corn:

[WilDun]

There will still be plenty of people interested but as actually doing it is out of the time/space/ability resources of people like me we are relegated to spectating.

Keep up the show!

:corn:

I've got the time, a bit pushed for space maybe, but I believe I have the ability, probably you do as well, but it depends on how keen you are on this dirty, hard slog, dangerous, anti social hobby some of us want to indulge in! (not to mention bikes!).
However, my ability to see it through depends on my fast disappearing stamina! - you know, the mind is willing but the body sometimes finds it hard to comply.
I'll get there (probably sooner than later). :yes:

Will.

[Flettner]

Getting a bit off track here I know but this is why I've not been doing any cylinder patterns lately. This gyro engine has been causing me problems. I decided to fit a one way clutch to the reduction drive to help the unit idle a little smoother ( break up the sign wave ). Works well when the engine is running but this now makes the starting of the engine much harder with the flywheel effect from the prop gone the starter isn't big enough. So either I put a largish flywheel on or a bigger starter. Bigger starter, then a bigger starter, still hard on the whole drive system as the prop drive cuts in and out through the starting process. Back to the old drive system with just the rubber drive in the prop drive gear but a much tighter gear clearance, now the smallest starter will work fine. I feel like I'm going round in circles. Here is a picture of the new starter gearbox, machined out of soild not cast. Because I had some alloy as an offcut from another ( paid ) job sitting around. This alloy is 7075 good to machine and quite strong.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4879_zps53539645.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4881_zps82f6a49b.jpg



This was the one way clutch I built

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4886_zpsafca0560.jpg

[Flettner]

And now the exhaust has to change because the new starter motor is in the way! Small flywheel ( YZ250 unit ) on the end of the starter shaft is there to charge the battery. Original flywheel position ( front end of the crankshaft ) is now taken up driving the counter rotating ballance shaft system.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4878_zps6fb00b78.jpg

[Flettner]

This is the ballance shaft drive with one bob weight.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4887_zps937eb450.jpg

The other bob weight

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4888_zpsf70dc072.jpg

[Flettner]

The last lot of castings from Thames Foundry ready to machine

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4889_zps02edf3b7.jpg

[Grumph]

Can the rubber in the prop drive be "tuned" to eliminate the undesirable harmonics at idle ?

Similar to a harmonic balancer on a crankshaft - which are actually harmonic dampers.

7075 machines well, yes...but hand tapping the stuff.....sticky as fuck.

Nice work - as usual.

[Yow Ling]

cartridge starter would be cool even if not super practical, be like a Canberra or dh venom

[Flettner]

Yes, there has been may suggestions, some unprintable. The truth is, the engine needs more of a flywheel.
The next engine will have a different layout using only four gears to dive everything ( and a similar flywheel geared at twice crank speed).
No chain drive to the ballance shaft.

[WilDun]

Yes, there has been may suggestions, some unprintable. The truth is, the engine needs more of a flywheel.
The next engine will have a different layout using only four gears to dive everything ( and a similar flywheel geared at twice crank speed).
No chain drive to the ballance shaft.

Flettner,
A few years ago, I read a few good discussions on torsional vibration and I distinctly remember a guy saying that a one way clutch was not the answer (ie mostly in geared light aircraft engines) because of exactly the same problem with the freewheeling prop,

II'm no expert of course, so I'll try my best to dig up the discussion (ie the one on torsional vibration) - I did find it very interesting.

I think that problems of this sort and other similar problems can also apply to bikes, so we're not too far off track!

Will.

[Flettner]

Here is the rubber drive, I've tried removing rubber elements one at a time to see the difference, seems to me to get worse as the number reduces. So they are all back in again.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/DSCF4611_zps624f8566.jpg

Ballance shaft, bob weight and water pump.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1136_zpsaa72e6e5.jpg

Bob weight drive chain

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_1135_zpse92a12f5.jpg

[Grumph]

Is that rubber or urethane ? If urethane it'll be too stiff to damp out any torsional movement.

IMO changing the layout for a setup with bonded rubber between inner and outer rings may be better...maybe.
It can be made failsafe with grubscrew limit stops.

BTW....Mr Kawasaki would be proud of that setup, I've seen it several times when fixing collapsed Kawasaki clutch cush drives....

[Flettner]

I'll bet you have never seen somthing like this before.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4895_zps13d725aa.jpg

Must have built this at least twenty years ago to drill inner tubes for twostroke mufflers. Can do four different sizes, 1 1/4" ,1 1/8", 1", 7/8" OD
Made from free stuff I found in bins etc. This unit has been in the storage shed for ( must be twenty years? ) and the birds have been using it for a toilet! I found it, doug it out, cleaned the worst bird poo off and pluged it in. It still goes! ( it's probably closer to thirty years old )

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4894_zpsbc73617b.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4890_zpsd7aa613c.jpg

[WilDun]

I'll bet you have never seen somthing like this before.



What a weird and wonderful machine, wiper motors and everything else incoporated in it, you can't chuck that out! no doubt you'll adapt it to do some other job.
Still haven't come across the article on vibration I was looking for, mainly because I keep going to sleep! - so maybe I was dreaming. :sleep:

Will.

[Flettner]

No no, I won't be disposing of it, I've got new mufflers to build for the gyro. Also went looking for all my old press tools for the outer muffler parts ( and found them ). I was going to just buy some after market units but was a little disappointed at the price so thought bugger it I'll just make some.

[Grumph]

I'll bet you have never seen somthing like this before.

What is it with aircraft nutters and exhaust systems....there was a guy killed down here recently in a towplane accident who used to make silencer cores. He made up a weird and wonderful device which plunge stamped V shaped perforations in tube - without actually removing material. Watching it in action was was slightly frightening....and about as noisy as a Lewis gun in full flight.

[Flettner]

I've never used one of these on an aircraft before, this was made when you could not buy small perforated tube and I got sick of drilling it in the drill press for hours. This machine produced many bucket and other motorcycle mufflers, RD / RZ etc in it's time. My storage shed is an old cowshed, where all of the birds in the Waikato live, a bit of a mess!

[Flettner]

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4897_zps89ef75e6.jpg


Finaly ready, petrol, water and start!
Will be tied to a post for a quite a few hours of test running.

[speedpro]

Nice. Of course the most obvious thing everyone will notice and comment on is the piece of class radiator.

[quallman1234]

My uncle is the owner of sanpro industries, he makes these machines to make perforated pipe for automotive plants throughtout the world. Locally made in Wellington...
Lucky for me i can just rock up and get test pieces :).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfXZsyFuRMI&list=PL2FC2FFB4272687C9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEuABAbyGg8

[Flettner]

Yes a little bit quicker than my machine ( lots ), but will that machine do 7/8" tube?
It's good to see this sort of stuff still happening in NZ.
The classy radiator fan, good to use stuff found in the rubbish bin ( Honda! ), this fan is only used for ground testing.

[quallman1234]

Yes a little bit quicker than my machine ( lots ), but will that machine do 7/8" tube?
It's good to see this sort of stuff still happening in NZ.
The classy radiator fan, good to use stuff found in the rubbish bin ( Honda! ), this fan is only used for ground testing.

I'm sure it does, tool changes are done in under 10 mins (remember its made to do 1000's of tubes in a row).

[ken seeber]

Just saw Flettner’s wonderful drilling machine. Think I have worked it out:

A washing machine motor driving an A section belt. This in turn drives the drilling spindle, which in fact is an upper fork leg, spinning inside a shortened lower fork leg. As well as spinning, this is advanced and retracted by an axial bearing inside a carrier that is joined to a vertical plate which has a vertical slot in it that allows the movement of an mounted bearing that is eccentrically mounted on a shaft on one side of a bearing block, the shaft being driven via chain by a wormed drive gear reduction motor. Also on the shaft is a crankpin that is connected to a small connecting rod that in turn drives a, arm connected to a sleeve that fits over the tube. This sleeve presumably has a ratchet/sprag bearing that rotationally indexes the tube in hole spacing steps. Cleverly though, it looks like the fixed quadrant ring is mounted on a slight angle such that when the tube is rotationally indexed, it also is forced axially by a small amount, presumably the bearing in the sleeve can tolerate this dual movement. As a result the holes are drilled in a helix style pattern. It also looks like there is some tube locking mechanism that is actuated by the carrier on the drilling spindle.

Congratulations. It’s great.

Looking forward to the next gizmo.

Ken

[WilDun]

Just saw Flettner’s wonderful drilling machine.
A washing machine motor driving an A section belt. This in turn drives holes are drilled in a helix style pattern. ......................etc..etc.................... ................. It also looks like there is some tube locking mechanism that is actuated by the carrier on the drilling spindle. etc.
Congratulations. It’s great.
Ken

And those damn Waikato birds had the audacity to shit on it!!!:mad:

[Flettner]

Just saw Flettner’s wonderful drilling machine. Think I have worked it out:

A washing machine motor driving an A section belt. This in turn drives the drilling spindle, which in fact is an upper fork leg, spinning inside a shortened lower fork leg. As well as spinning, this is advanced and retracted by an axial bearing inside a carrier that is joined to a vertical plate which has a vertical slot in it that allows the movement of an mounted bearing that is eccentrically mounted on a shaft on one side of a bearing block, the shaft being driven via chain by a wormed drive gear reduction motor. Also on the shaft is a crankpin that is connected to a small connecting rod that in turn drives a, arm connected to a sleeve that fits over the tube. This sleeve presumably has a ratchet/sprag bearing that rotationally indexes the tube in hole spacing steps. Cleverly though, it looks like the fixed quadrant ring is mounted on a slight angle such that when the tube is rotationally indexed, it also is forced axially by a small amount, presumably the bearing in the sleeve can tolerate this dual movement. As a result the holes are drilled in a helix style pattern. It also looks like there is some tube locking mechanism that is actuated by the carrier on the drilling spindle.

Congratulations. It’s great.

Looking forward to the next gizmo.

Ken

Right on the money! It looks like a "crap" thing, but it does the job.

[husaberg]

Remembering the adage there is no such thing as a stupid question...........:no:
with a horozonally split crankcase (like a yamaha rz250 rd250 etc)without a cnc how do you machine a crankcase cavity accurately and easily i guess Honda and Yamaha with their pressure diecast would not need to.

[Yow Ling]

Remembering the adage there is no such thing as a stupid question...........:no:
with a horozonally split crankcase (like a yamaha rz250 rd250 etc)without a cnc how do you machine a crankcase cavity accurately and easily i guess Honda and Yamaha with their pressure diecast would not need to.

Use a boring and facing head in a mill if you want to just trench the cases, could spark erode the crankcases, maybe a horzontal boring machine to line bore the bearing cavities, probably a hundred ways to skin this cat

[husaberg]

Use a boring and facing head in a mill if you want to just trench the cases, could spark erode the crankcases, maybe a horzontal boring machine to line bore the bearing cavities, probably a hundred ways to skin this cat

Yes i can understand what the line boring and the trenching, but what i am meaning is the actual cavity that that surrounds the crank checks. Easy to mill on a vertical split case. I never considered how it would be done.....

[mr bucketracer]

Yes i can understand what the line boring and the trenching, but what i am meaning is the actual cavity that that surrounds the crank checks. Easy to mill on a vertical split case. I never considered how it would be done.....you would use a mill with a horizontal arber

[WilDun]

Yes i can understand what the line boring and the trenching, but what i am meaning is the actual cavity that that surrounds the crank checks. Easy to mill on a vertical split case. I never considered how it would be done.....

As you say, the manufacturers would probably have used good accurate casting practice with no machining necessary, but if you had heavily skimmed the case mating surfaces and actually had to skim the cavities.......
that might just be opening a can of worms and depending on how much you had skimmed off the mating faces, you'd get problems like fitting side covers and a host of other things!
If you really decided to go ahead and do it, using basic machines, then a mill with a fly cutter might do the trick, also could be used for line boring the bearing housings. - personally I'd try to avoid doing it at all! :oi-grr:

[F5 Dave]

Here's my RZ for 7mm crank

[WilDun]

Question for Neill,(Flettner),

In those photos you posted in the ESE thread I noticed that you used gravity instead of a pump for the oil supply to your furnace burner.- Were you using diesel or waste oil?

Also was it a burner you made yourself, or did you use a commercially available one?

I have made a propane burner (because of living in close proximity to neighbours) but when testing it, it would appear that it might need quite a bit of cash to run!
How clean do these oil burners run? (ie smoke and fumes) - of course, I haven't got access to height like you do for the delivery of fuel, so some sort of pump may be necessary.

Got a pile of that ceramic wool given to me but I think I'll use it in conjunction with a hard castable ceramic "hotface" in my furnace.
I won't be doing anything spectacular or big to begin with of course and progress is and will be slow, but thanks for sharing the details of your experiments - very inspirational!

Will.

[Flettner]

Question for Neill,(Flettner),

In those photos you posted in the ESE thread I noticed that you used gravity instead of a pump for the oil supply to your furnace burner.- Were you using diesel or waste oil?

Also was it a burner you made yourself, or did you use a commercially available one?

I have made a propane burner (because of living in close proximity to neighbours) but when testing it, it would appear that it might need quite a bit of cash to run!
How clean do these oil burners run? (ie smoke and fumes) - of course, I haven't got access to height like you do for the delivery of fuel, so some sort of pump may be necessary.

Got a pile of that ceramic wool given to me but I think I'll use it in conjunction with a hard castable ceramic "hotface" in my furnace.
I won't be doing anything spectacular or big to begin with of course and progress is and will be slow, but thanks for sharing the details of your experiments - very inspirational!

Will.

I used Ethanol ( because I had a 200 L drum of it ), mostly mixed with castor, ( old ) fuel for the F9. It smelt Goooood. I'm sure your neighbours would approve. Burner was just a bit of old pipe with a small tube fitted to the side poking in and down stream. Used a small valve to control fuel flow and a vacume cleaner plugged in. I rested a steel plate over the vacume cleaner intake to control air flow, once tuned it worked well.
You could seal the fuel tank and put a light air pressure in it to force the fuel out, like the old tilly lamps, maybe?

[Flettner]

It's not so much as the burner but the pooring of the metal that creates a lot of smoke. Thats why I live out of town now as the neighbours in town did not like their washing covered in casting smoke on the weekends. It came to a head, I moved!

[WilDun]

It's not so much as the burner but the pooring of the metal that creates a lot of smoke. Thats why I live out of town now as the neighbours in town did not like their washing covered in casting smoke on the weekends. It came to a head, I moved!

I grew up in the country on a farm and I sure wish I still lived there! However, I moved a couple of years ago from a quarter acre after 30 years living there to a place which is really more suited to elderly people who like gardening and that sort of stuff, ie the things most of the sane elderly people do (not like me). :nono:

I won't be moving again and I have been considering making my foundry portable and taking it on a trailer to somewhere far far away when I am melting and pouring! (Best remedy for my situation I guess!), otherwise I just won't be able to look the neighbours in the eye and say G'day!

No doubt I'll be asking you some questions about pattern making etc. in the future - it'll be a while before I start that, but I'm getting there, .......... albeit slowly.

Thanks, Will.

PS I grew up with the smell of Castrol R - Divine Smell! but nowadays, the people (who have been deprived of these simple pleasures) just don't seem to understand!.

[Flettner]

Portable might be the way to go.

Kennith Steadman ( some will know from old days of bucket racing ) used to have a dyno for testing his home cast cylinders ( to fit a TZ 250 ). The testing was a VERY noisy affair so it was decided to fit the dyno into the back of his Thames van. He would drive out of town to some secluded location ( different every time ) and proceed to do dyno runs for about twenty minutes, shut the doors and motor off before someone got pissed off. Worked well!

Could you imagine what passing drivers would think seeing some old guy boiling up alloy on the side of the road somewhere, probably round you up thinking you were manufacturing P or something.

[WilDun]

Portable might be the way to go.
Could you imagine what passing drivers would think seeing some old guy boiling up alloy on the side of the road somewhere, probably round you up thinking you were manufacturing P or something.

Yeah, I know - first thought would be "P lab" followed by "moonshine,", "burning a body" to get rid of the evidence, always a conspiracy theory first - ( says something about society! ). Then finally, "old lunatic", actually the last one might not be too far out! however that's probably what I'll do, although I may find someone in the countryside around here who will accomodate me on their property.
Just experimenting with various versions of my furnace burner at the moment and fine tuning it, - got a fairly decent flame coming from it now, - one or two little refinements to try, just like tuning a bike for optimum performance.! - Next move is making the furnace itself, should be fun!

BTW, The German guy, Helmut Fath of sidecar fame in the sixties, developed his 4 cylinder racing engine in his garage in the suburbs, had it mounted on a trailer and when he dyno tested it he took it out into the forest so he wouldn't annoy the neighbours.
When asked what his wife thought about his exploits, he said "I dunno, I never asked her" - way to go!



Will.

[F5 Dave]

Portable might be the way to go.

Kennith Steadman ( some will know from old days of bucket racing ) used to have a dyno for testing his home cast cylinders ( to fit a TZ 250 ). The testing was a VERY noisy affair so it was decided to fit the dyno into the back of his Thames van. He would drive out of town to some secluded location ( different every time ) and proceed to do dyno runs for about twenty minutes, shut the doors and motor off before someone got pissed off. Worked well!

Could you imagine what passing drivers would think seeing some old guy boiling up alloy on the side of the road somewhere, probably round you up thinking you were manufacturing P or something.
Yes we might. Good story.

[Flettner]

Same said, Kennith Steadman has I understand bought much of what's left of Thames Foundry.
Will be relocated to Tokoroa, good news indeed!

[WilDun]

Same said, Kennith Steadman has I understand bought much of what's left of Thames Foundry.
Will be relocated to Tokoroa, good news indeed!

Sounds good, hope it works out for him, a lot of people ( bucket etc.) will be interested in someone like him, ie someone who is possibly prepared do jobbing work for locals, as well as bigger orders.

I'm really sorry for the guy in Thames though, also for Thames itself, which was a leading edge "state of the art" engineering town in the goldmining and steam era.

Will.

[Flettner]

Finally got the Gyro running nice and starting ok. After running for a minute or two ( more like ten seconds )one carb would not stop leaking ( pissing ) fuel out of the over flow pipes. So after stopping the engine and investigating, you could imagine my surprise on taking the float bowl off to find no floats! I was a bit tired when I cleaned and reassembled them last night. Sure enough the floats are sitting right where I left them, on the bench! Carb seems to work a lot better with the floats installed and the engine runs even better.
EFI dosen't have floats.

[husaberg]

Finally got the Gyro running nice and starting ok. After running for a minute or two ( more like ten seconds )one carb would not stop leaking ( pissing ) fuel out of the over flow pipes. So after stopping the engine and investigating, you could imagine my surprise on taking the float bowl off to find no floats! I was a bit tired when I cleaned and reassembled them last night. Sure enough the floats are sitting right where I left them, on the bench! Carb seems to work a lot better with the floats installed and the engine runs even better.
EFI dosen't have floats.

guess the EFI compensates for altitude a little better too...........

[Flettner]

I don't think that will be a problem for this engine for a while. It needs to do a lot of ground work first, you know, see whats going to fall off it.

[WilDun]

I don't think that will be a problem for this engine for a while. It needs to do a lot of ground work first, you know, see whats going to fall off it.

For aircraft applications, do you design the porting more for torque than high rpm HP? - how is the bobweight? controlled vibration mechanism working out?

Will.

[Flettner]

There has been many problems, it's never run smooth, holed a piston twice ( same cylinder ). SO I think ( each time there is a catastrophy, it gets thrown back in the shed for at least six months, plenty of time to think ) there must something up with the ignition ( ignitech ), so I test it in the milling machine using the spindle for the trigger. Cylinder one is good, cylinder two timing is all over the place ( no wonder the piston holed ). It seems the system I was using is no longer used by ignitech as it gives problems ( no shit ). So I got the pip with the ignitech and fitted my home made CDI ( no advance / retard ) , the upshot is now the engine runs sweet with minimal vibration, it's never run so well, bob weights are doing a good job also.

My fault for not testing the ignition first up, no ignition will go back on this engine without first testing it in the milling machine!

Well yes the port timings are lower than the cylinder I'm going to use on the 360 EFI engine. Open up the throttle and it will lift the main wheel off the ground, plenty of torque.

[Flettner]

Here we go again, I'm finaly back on to cylinder production.I've got several cylinder projects on the go, a revamped 360 cylinder with prevision for a power valve, a 185 (ish) cylinder for YZ125 engines and now also a cylinder to suit an RG400. In other words a modern cylinder to suit the RG ( Bucket cylinders ), I might want one or two.
A water cooled 25cc cylinder might be nice too.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4906_zpsda5ff8b5.jpg

[ken seeber]

Flettner,

New cylinder(s), good on you. Hmmm, but what could the pic be of ? I reckon it is a male shape of a transfer passage or powervalve relief passage, possibly made by hand or 3D printer, being cast in silicone so you can make a number of cold set sand cores.

Ken

[WilDun]

Flettner,

New cylinder(s), good on you. Hmmm, but what could the pic be of ? I reckon it is a male shape of a transfer passage or powervalve relief passage, possibly made by hand or 3D printer, being cast in silicone so you can make a number of cold set sand cores.

Ken

You're way out, it's a prototype cappuccino machine for the workshop! :laugh:

Seriously though, I am hoping to see the foundry processes used to make the new cylinders on this thread (hopefully)!

Will.

[Flettner]

Flettner,

New cylinder(s), good on you. Hmmm, but what could the pic be of ? I reckon it is a male shape of a transfer passage or powervalve relief passage, possibly made by hand or 3D printer, being cast in silicone so you can make a number of cold set sand cores.

Ken


This is a rubber mould lifted from a cylinder I like. I am setting this rubber in casting resin to get a hard ( female ) shape. This hard shape will eventually be the sand core box. There are probably better ways to do this but this is how I know, it works for me.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4907_zps17e0a5bf.jpg

[Flettner]

A couple of pictures of the 700 twin at work, got it up to 6200 rpm for a while today, holding temps nicely. I will have to stop testing around home, it is loud ( in a good way I think ).

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4903_zps5c3078ac.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4902_zps332c5683.jpg

[Flettner]

This is an example of a core box. The bottom left hand item is the original hand crafted part ( copied in part from a cylinder I had on the shelf). The right hand pair are the core box that was made around the original. I made two extra shapes from the core box and glued them into the pattern ( as you can see ). So now when the pattern is invested into the sand, it leaves room ( core prints ) for sand cores all made in the original core box to fit in. This will make the casting hollow where the reeds fit, no machining nessary.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4908_zpsb1b113a0.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_0539_zpsc5fd774d.jpg


Sorting out a few old patterns on the shelf. They might have to go down to the "storage cowshed" down the road.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4912_zpsa2b9594c.jpg

[WilDun]

This is an example of a core box.

Managed to get my head around it all .... eventually!
Looking forward to making patterns/coreboxes etc. and learning by mistakes.
You obviously don't (probably don't need to) use the ready made reusable stuff on the market for taking off shapes for transfers etc. - it does sound good, but it's probably a bit expensive for me for a start anyway!
3D printers seem to be used a lot these days for patterns (even though they've been around since the late seventies), but a lot of people seem to think that they can make everything, - my feeling is that they will find a niche where they will be useful but won't take over completely,
I remember hearing a long time ago that cnc machining would make casting obselete - hasn't happened! - just as they said that microwave ovens would take over all the cooking! - theories about exciting new stuff aren't always right!
New parallel twin looking good, the cattle look impressed! :cool:

Will.

[WilDun]

Flettner,
I guess the whole twin 2T engine setup would probably produce as much peak HP as say an EA 81 setup (guess you'd need a bigger reduction) but how would the all up weight and cost compare to the Subaru? ie if the engine was also manufactured by you?

Will.

[Flettner]

Flettner,
I guess the whole twin 2T engine setup would probably produce as much peak HP as say an EA 81 setup (guess you'd need a bigger reduction) but how would the all up weight and cost compare to the Subaru? ie if the engine was also manufactured by you?

Will.

Hotted up standard EA81 (siamesed inlet and exhaust heads) approx 90HP, SUB4 type EA81 with four port heads, 120HP (same red line). Weight approx 95Kg with gearbox. Standard EA81 72HP.

2T engine 38Kg including gearbox, conservitive 80HP. Needs smaller rotor system ie less drag, faster and more nimble with the 2T.

And smells / sounds way better too!

[Flettner]

Here we have hard copies of the rubber transfer ports lifted from our 'suitable' cylinder. With these hard shapes we can modify them to suit the needs of the cylinder we want to build. These molds will be discarded (kept on the shelf but probably never used again).


http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4918_zps16a9fb51.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4917_zps690483ff.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4916_zps5a369feb.jpg

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4915_zps1d7be10d.jpg

[WilDun]

[QUOTE=Flettner; 2T engine 38Kg including gearbox, conservitive 80HP. Needs smaller rotor system ie less drag, faster and more nimble with the 2T.
/QUOTE]

So there is definitely a good reason to keep the good old twostroke engine in circulation! I can't believe the difference in weight! - looks like you are on the right track developing that one.

What sort of resin do you use to harden the rubber moulds in the pictures, would it be better for me to use 'vinamold' ?
At the moment I'm doing some test pieces trying to figure out a good recipe ( concoction maybe ), to use in my furnace, ie the hotface part, - all good fun even if I do it my own way!
Used my wife's oven today to dry out a piece and I had to leave all the doors etc. open to get rid of the smell before she got home , trouble is, the damn thing cracked!

Will.

[Flettner]

This is a rubber mould lifted from a cylinder I like. I am setting this rubber in casting resin to get a hard ( female ) shape. This hard shape will eventually be the sand core box. There are probably better ways to do this but this is how I know, it works for me.

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t380/uniflow/IMG_4907_zps17e0a5bf.jpg


This is vinamold ( just that it's old, that's why it is discoloured ).

The white stuff I use to make the hard molds is Casting Resin, a two pot mix. This resin copies with no shrinkage or expansion.

I use casting resin to copy the rubber mould, remove the rubber, then cut this mold away to a part line, replace the rubber mold ( stick in place with a little super glue ), coat in a small film of wax, then recast the other half (to make the mold a split unit so I can make more copies ).

[WilDun]

[QUOTE=Flettner;1130716714]This is vinamold ( just that it's old, that's why it is brown ).

The white stuff I use to make the hard molds is Casting Resin, a two pot mix. This resin copies with no shrinkage or expansion.

/QUOTE]

Right, seems Vinamold is the stuff to use then, thought you were just using wobbly old silicone rubber (takes a while to sink in!:rolleyes:) - but I'm learning. ..... however, if it did need a little expansion (ie on the core size to allow for contraction in the ally as it cools) could that be done? - again, maybe I'm nitpicking here, we are dealing with pretty small pieces!
Thanks for the replies.
Will.

[Flettner]

When you have the core shape made, thats the time to add thickness if you want. I give it several coats of thick hard paint. Then make the core box from that.
I don't usually bother.

[WilDun]

Got the hard resin female corebox concept sorted out in my mind, but will it be used as a working corebox to manufacture all the sand cores you need? ...... or will you then need to make a split pattern (working corebox)?
ie. I can understand the rubber core shape being easy to remove, but will the corebox need to be split to make the rigid finished product (sand core) easy to remove ?


UPDATE, - I have just gone over your posts again and studied the description of the process, - the method you're using to make a split mould now makes sense to me.

Will.

[Flettner]

Stuff is happening, I've got no camera at the moment, wife has it in Wellington with the grand kids. So next week I'll post progress.

[Yow Ling]

This is interesting, bit off topic but still manufacturing

http://www.wimp.com/metalbutter/


http://www.wimp.com/metalbutter/

[WilDun]

YOW LING,
That's fantastic, - we had a machining centre where I worked in the eighties and we thought it was great, but this is most definitely on a new level!!

As soon as my foundry is in operation, I'm going to order one of those for my garage! - where can you buy them? Ebay?

FLETTNER,
Wondered what you were brewing up in the workshop, looking forward to seeing what will be next.

Will.

[husaberg]

Bet he does great at recyling.
http://moto2-usa.blogspot.co.nz/2012_02_12_archive.html

[Pumba]

Bet he does great at recyling.
http://moto2-usa.blogspot.co.nz/2012_02_12_archive.html

That is pretty freaking cool

[WilDun]

Bet he does great at recyling.
http://moto2-usa.blogspot.co.nz/2012_02_12_archive.html

Very good! - Guess there must be a market for the 'small run' fully machined stuff (for rich people)!
I daresay that the material used can then be really good quality but it might not be suitable for casting.
I suppose it'll end up being much dearer than casting in the long run, but if there's a market then it'll be exploited by someone with all the gear, like that guy - and why not!
Remember being told way back that the CNC machines would make casting redundant, and we used to make small fully machined ball valves etc. on CNC machines but they never superceded castings!

[Flettner]

Let's see him machine out a twostroke cylinder, ports, water cooling and all.
Nice machine though.

[husaberg]

Let's see him machine out a twostroke cylinder, ports, water cooling and all.
Nice machine though.

Nothing is imposible is just weather it is worth it(the time)
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=254582&d=1325836568

[WilDun]

Nothing is imposible is just weather it is worth it(the time)


Nothing is impossible (within reason), but a lot of things some people try to do for no good reason other than to be able to say they did it, is called "futility" and is soon forgotten!

What the hell is that? - some new trophy? or a UFE (Unidentified flying engine) - whatever it is, it probably had some purpose anyway! - maybe something I missed in the earlier threads?

[husaberg]

Nothing is impossible (within reason), but a lot of things some people try to do for no good reason other than to be able to say they did it, is called "futility" and is soon forgotten!

What the hell is that? - some new trophy? or a UFE (Unidentified flying engine) - whatever it is, it looks suspiciously like a casting!

it was a billet (so i guess it was a casting when it was poured) but it is a two stroke cylinder made from scratch in the back ground is the outer cover. bloody easy to get to the transfers.........but it is a machined from soild 2 stroke cylinder.......
i just put it on for fun.
From what i understand billet 2 stroke cases make less power than the sandcast ones likely due to the finish rather than the materials though.....

[F5 Dave]

And in which case why has no one tried using a stone to give a unsmooth finish. You can get quite a nice flat but honed finished from that.

[WilDun]

And in which case why has no one tried using a stone to give a unsmooth finish. You can get quite a nice flat but honed finished from that.

Or a file! - have read that as long as the passage is a dull "as cast" finish (still needs to be smooth with no ripples it seems)
Sometimes they use little tabs (vortex generators) on the wings of aitcraft to break up the boundary layer, with good results.
How about a sand blaster with nozzles pointing in a radial direction? - maybe I'm getting carried away here, we had come to the conclusion that casting was by far the best and cheapest way to go!
Makes me wonder how pipes get away with the ripples caused by welding or hydroforming! - but they seem to work ok.

[husaberg]

I just posted the pic cause i found it a clever solution casting is where it is out for the bigger stuff neil has all the gear to do the CNC but chooses to do it by casting that says something to me.

Neil can you talk us though the copy casting technique say for a 2 stroke crankcase would you do it or just start from scatch with a pattern.
I am thinking say like my NSR125 but modded to suit a rotary valve and the cylinder i have the patterns for?

[Flettner]

Can I see a picture of the NSR cases?
You don't want to run the case reed?
You are talking rear rotary valve?
How much different is the base of the barrel to the cases?

[WilDun]

I just posted the pic cause i found it a clever solution casting is where it is out for the bigger stuff neil has all the gear to do the CNC but chooses to do it by casting that says something to me.



HUSA,
I do understand that was just an example of what people had tried.
I would say that Neil has sussed out the best and most economical way of doing it, - he has given us a fair share of material to work on and I now feel that I should gather up that mountain of information and use it to get me up off my ass and suss at least some things out for myself from that!
I'm already working on it and I'm getting there (slowly) but I wouldn't have got far without some guidance from him and others. - wish I'd had all this info and had done it all when I was younger.
Never mind, hopefully I'll have a few productive years and with a bit of luck, one day (in the distant future of course), I'll have just tidied up the workshop after a good day, turned around to switch out the light and expire!! :lol:

[husaberg]

Can I see a picture of the NSR cases?
You don't want to run the case reed?
You are talking rear rotary valve?
How much different is the base of the barrel to the cases?

The picture ahould be above... by now i will try and find some inner pictures.

i have the dimensions for the cylinders vs the NSR ones from memory the NSR might be wider, "I should have brought a Suzuki RG125 there i said it MIKE"
but i got to thinking i am have trouble getting it to fit the frame will have to be modded the crank is giving grief needs 20mm pin has 24mm pin and needs destroking 4mm so why not make it fit by changing all the other stuff.. its a hopeless grasp i guess.

good god they are complex..

[Yow Ling]

Rg125/150 fit straight into nf4 single mount at rear just like mx engine

[husaberg]

Rg125/150 fit straight into nf4 single mount at rear just like mx engine

But what would Dave say, i can get the engine in no worries just need to do same plates.....
its rather ironic though that the cylinder stud spacing is closer to the Suzi though.

Can I see a picture of the NSR cases?
You don't want to run the case reed?
You are talking rear rotary valve?
How much different is the base of the barrel to the cases?
alright they are from memory the top left NSr125, some rotax?, the cylinder i have the molds for.
Bottom right Rg125, Rg500 and ke125 or visa versa.

[Flettner]

There is no easy way, like I tell my kids, there is no free lunch.
Either you take the cases somewhere and get them digittized or draw them up as a three D model, then machine from solid ( or machine a pattern ).

You could copy them into female halves ( using casting resin ), then cast off patterns in casting resin from these mold halves. Then cut and or stick on the bits you want ( rotary valve housing etc ). The problem with this is two, first you will have to block up all holes in the csaes, bearing housings will need tapered inserts and all edges will need to be checked for taper ( so it will come out of the mold ) also the surface will have to be smooooooth, two pot epoxy paint and lots of sanding. But it is possible.

It's time or money!

[husaberg]

There is no easy way, like I tell my kids, there is no free lunch.
Either you take the cases somewhere and get them digittized or draw them up as a three D model, then machine from solid ( or machine a pattern ).

You could copy them into female halves ( using casting resin ), then cast off patterns in casting resin from these mold halves. Then cut and or stick on the bits you want ( rotary valve housing etc ). The problem with this is two, first you will have to block up all holes in the csaes, bearing housings will need tapered inserts and all edges will need to be checked for taper ( so it will come out of the mold ) also the surface will have to be smooooooth, two pot epoxy paint and lots of sanding. But it is possible.

It's time or money!

I realised as soon as i seen the parts fiche just how complex the std cases are and that is was too much.
There is i see the problem it would be pretty much just as much work to make a 100 single as a v4 500....

[Yow Ling]

I got a spare rg if you want

[husaberg]

I got a spare rg if you want


My lady would not understand...............
Plus i have the other Honda stuff..... i think the path of most resistance should give me a warm feeling inside......

Where as another engine would see me outside in the cold......:cold:

[F5 Dave]

But what's the point of appeasing the wimenfolk and still being ghey by owning a *onda?

[husaberg]

But what's the point of appeasing the wimenfolk and still being ghey by owning a *onda?

Someone has to make me my sandwiches:-)

[HenryDorsetCase]

Te crank is giving grief needs 20mm pin has 24mm pin and needs destroking 4mm so why not make it fit by changing all the other stuff.. its a hopeless grasp i guess.

good god they are complex..

dont laugh at me if this is a stupid question but could you offset grind the crankpin to get the result you want?

[Kickaha]

dont laugh at me if this is a stupid question but could you offset grind the crankpin to get the result you want?
Not stupid at all, we did exactly that by starting with a bigger pin than we needed for my GN and which is a far superior bike to the one Husaberk is building because it actually runs and finishes races

[F5 Dave]

My MB is done that way

[husaberg]

dont laugh at me if this is a stupid question but could you offset grind the crankpin to get the result you want?


Not stupid at all, we did exactly that by starting with a bigger pin than we needed for my GN and which is a far superior bike to the one Husaberk is building because it actually runs and finishes races

20mm pin 24mm hole would only work with 2 piece bearing

[husaberg]

My MB is done that way

You have a 20mm hole 22mm bearing;)

[F5 Dave]

Oh yeah right, I think no one understood the way around.

[husaberg]

Oh yeah right, I think no one understood the way around.

I think I will ask marsheng he's the guy that did it for shitkicka' grumpy I understand did the rest warwick supplied the witty reparte and the foul odours........

[Kickaha]

I think I will ask marsheng he's the guy that did it for shitkicka' grumpy I understand did the rest warwick supplied the witty reparte and the foul odours........
Grumph came up with how to do it though and luckily enough the DR200 pin works out spot on for the offset grind to get the stroke right, a longer rod and fit the 125 webs

[Grumph]

20mm pin 24mm hole would only work with 2 piece bearing

Okay, you've already heard one of my suggestions - here's a more complicated one...

Make a pin from scratch - not hard i've made around 6 so far....this has a 24mm end and an offset 20mm shank. the 24mm end is only as long as the drive side web is thick, the 20mm dia offset ground remainder is the rest of the required pin length.
The timing side crankweb is bored maybe 26mm and a bush pressed/welded in and bored to the stroke you want.
The pin offset is obviously the same figure as the stroke reduction in the timing side web.

On the other site your comments obviously indicate a reluctance to finish up with an undercut on the mainshafts - this way you'd only have an undercut on one side - and it's the least loaded - and full engagement of the pin on the other side.

Yes, maximum offset on the pin will only give a stroke reduction of say 3.9mm - 2mm offset = 4mm stroke remember....How much do you need to reduce it anyway ?

Complicated, oh yes, do able ? yes again - but the bore and bush option is IMO still the best.....

[husaberg]

Okay, you've already heard one of my suggestions - here's a more complicated one...

Make a pin from scratch - not hard i've made around 6 so far....this has a 24mm end and an offset 20mm shank. the 24mm end is only as long as the drive side web is thick, the 20mm dia offset ground remainder is the rest of the required pin length.
The timing side crankweb is bored maybe 26mm and a bush pressed/welded in and bored to the stroke you want.
The pin offset is obviously the same figure as the stroke reduction in the timing side web.

On the other site your comments obviously indicate a reluctance to finish up with an undercut on the mainshafts - this way you'd only have an undercut on one side - and it's the least loaded - and full engagement of the pin on the other side.

Yes, maximum offset on the pin will only give a stroke reduction of say 3.9mm - 2mm offset = 4mm stroke remember....How much do you need to reduce it anyway ?

Complicated, oh yes, do able ? yes again - but the bore and bush option is IMO still the best.....
I think the bush solution is best I can get excentric pins, but doubt they will be long enough for the nsr ,why is the weld and fill such a bad idea? Is it the distortion, or cause it would result in a bad finish internally

[Flettner]

I have welded and remachined crank pin holes before, just have to be careful of what the crank is made of. It might harden up after you have welded it ( probably need to let the weld cool slowly ), this will then require internal grinding, another level of cost complication. Seem's my old Kawasaki cranks wern't made of anything too special they welded and machined ok. I just used standard old low hydrogen arc rods.

[Grumph]

I have welded and remachined crank pin holes before, just have to be careful of what the crank is made of. It might harden up after you have welded it ( probably need to let the weld cool slowly ), this will then require internal grinding, another level of cost complication. Seem's my old Kawasaki cranks wern't made of anything too special they welded and machined ok. I just used standard old low hydrogen arc rods.

All true...Yes, distortion is to be avoided. The kawa cranks would have been a forging, that mob are very good - but conventional - engineers. The crank husa is looking at may be a casting....Honda....Send Flettner a closeup of the inside of the webs Husa for his opinion cast/forged.
i've been saying grinding too LOL - Flettner, these guys are happy to simply bore a web for a pin....then run it to 13 plus. I'd happily pay the extra for precision grinding even if it hadn't hardened.