North Auckland Street Skills - NASS

[fizbin]

Doesn't even get Mai FM au!!!
ROFL yep it sucks!
on the bright side i pick up the new car today!


Now that is pure grade 'A' class...!
well come on after half a bottle of wine and that late at night, taking into account i get up at 6am everymorning that was all i could come up with

[Qkchk]

ROFL yep it sucks!
on the bright side i pick up the new car today!



Good to see a bit of humour......... ;)

[accident]

Are we riding this Wednesday night?

[Qkchk]

Dont see why not. I'll meet the crew over at Albany.


Any requests of what people want to cover off on?

[fizbin]

sorry people i wont be there on wednesday. i have the kids while the wife is in oz.

[retro asian]

Dont see why not. I'll meet the crew over at Albany.


Any requests of what people want to cover off on?

Not sure if I can make it off work tonight.
But if you're stuck for ideas, covering corner lines theory is a very good topic (including practicing good and bad lines to see the difference).
The pro people can practice hanging off in the corner / knee-down / peg scraping ?? :devil2:

[imw-hornet]

Good one :)

[Miscreant]

Dont see why not. I'll meet the crew over at Albany.


Any requests of what people want to cover off on?

Yes, stoppies!

[TOTO]

The clown doing that knee down stuff has almost no peg feelers left any more. He'd better stop before he grinds the whole bike away...


Yes, stoppies!

oh thaose lessons are on thursday night leaving westgate son. U wont learn that on a wednesday.

[Qkchk]

oh thaose lessons are on thursday night leaving westgate son. U wont learn that on a wednesday.

Perhaps its time you came on an ATNR ride, always been a social ride with the exception of a few turning it into the Northern GP. Has quieten down last year or so.


Not sure if I will make it tonight, feeling jaded. Only had one day off in the last 14 days, so its starting to catch up with me. :yawn: If Im there, Im there.

[cheesemethod]

Another good NASS tonight, thanks all for turning up. Thankfully the weather held up for us. I'm still hearing echoes of that sickening crunch as that MV Augusta hit the deck.

[TOTO]

yea, awesome turnout boys and gals. keep it up.

[GOONR]

.... I'm still hearing echoes of that sickening crunch as that MV Augusta hit the deck.


Ouch!

10Char.

[BMCruiser]

Yes, good night tonight. Enjoyed the cornering :)

[Sis]

OK I have put up SASS on the Meetings and Events.
I had to do some name dropping to get permission to use the carpark at Manukau. Whatever works.
And I am prepared to put time in to the evenings hence I have put a start date of March 3rd when we get back from holiday. Would sure appreciate some help from other mentors in the area please. We can count on several Ulyssian mentors being able to help out from time to time too. I think the last SASS fizzled out because there weren't enough mentors around to carry the load. So the more the merrier.
We are most impressed with NASS and want to copy it as it works really well.

[TOTO]

OK I have put up SASS on the Meetings and Events.
I had to do some name dropping to get permission to use the carpark at Manukau. Whatever works.
And I am prepared to put time in to the evenings hence I have put a start date of March 3rd when we get back from holiday. Would sure appreciate some help from other mentors in the area please. We can count on several Ulyssian mentors being able to help out from time to time too. I think the last SASS fizzled out because there weren't enough mentors around to carry the load. So the more the merrier.
We are most impressed with NASS and want to copy it as it works really well.

would probably help if you create a SASS thread as well where the participants can share and discuss things/ideas/techniques ...

[imw-hornet]

Yea great night last night , thanks for the help and comments :) , and welcome to the SASS people ,,,, all the best and i am sure that some time we will come and join you at your spot :)

[Nagash]

Hello hello,

How are we all?

Just thought i'd stop by and say hi.

I know of been somewhat absent from the scene as of late.. that's not going to change any time soon unfortunately. Enevitably my bike's been green stickered.. Was a hell of an event too, drop us a text and i'll tell you alll about it. Took 2 cars and 1 bike to take me down haha.

Oh, and if there's a ride to wellington for Gubb's wedding would yah let me know? Gotta sort out a bike for it, otherwise i'll be flying down.

Hope you're all doing well. Ride safe.

[retro asian]

Took 2 cars and 1 bike to take me down haha.

Oh, and if there's a ride to wellington for Gubb's wedding would yah let me know? Gotta sort out a bike for it, otherwise i'll be flying down.

Hope you're all doing well. Ride safe.

Hey dude, wow that sounds pretty epic!!
A couple of us are definitely riding down, maybe a few more will join. Let me know if you wanna take pillion on my cruiser.

[fizbin]

Hello hello,

How are we all?

Just thought i'd stop by and say hi.

I know of been somewhat absent from the scene as of late.. that's not going to change any time soon unfortunately. Enevitably my bike's been green stickered.. Was a hell of an event too, drop us a text and i'll tell you alll about it. Took 2 cars and 1 bike to take me down haha.

Oh, and if there's a ride to wellington for Gubb's wedding would yah let me know? Gotta sort out a bike for it, otherwise i'll be flying down.

Hope you're all doing well. Ride safe.

dam bro that sounds like a tale.
how about this i will drop by on wednesday arvo and pick you up you can then tell us all about it?
come on bro you know you want to!

[accident]

Hello hello,

How are we all?

Just thought i'd stop by and say hi.

I know of been somewhat absent from the scene as of late.. that's not going to change any time soon unfortunately. Enevitably my bike's been green stickered.. Was a hell of an event too, drop us a text and i'll tell you alll about it. Took 2 cars and 1 bike to take me down haha.

Oh, and if there's a ride to wellington for Gubb's wedding would yah let me know? Gotta sort out a bike for it, otherwise i'll be flying down.

Hope you're all doing well. Ride safe.

post it up.

[Qkchk]

Sorry folks wont be there this week - Sun is out and so are the people wanting to take up motorcycling......

[fizbin]

well i will be there this week and i will be bringing a mystery guest

[p.dath]

I plan to be there this week.

[retro asian]

how about this i will drop by on wednesday arvo and pick you up you can then tell us all about it?



well i will be there this week and i will be bringing a mystery guest


who could it be? :rolleyes:

[fizbin]

well it might not be him!:innocent:

[Big Dog]

Sorry folks wont be there this week - Sun is out and so are the people wanting to take up motorcycling......

Ditto, no gas this week.

[Clean_up]

Ditto, no gas this week.

thats no excuse! i can spot ya $20 if ya need it.

[TOTO]

thats no excuse! i can spot ya $20 if ya need it.

does it mean you will show up then ?

[Clean_up]

does it mean you will show up then ?

mayyyyybe :P

[sl8er4lyf]

Will be back for the first time since last year, since I am now in a fit state to do so...

Looking forward to tonight

[Big Dog]

thats no excuse! i can spot ya $20 if ya need it.

Could be a go... Might have to see you lot at the other end though. Does not look like I am going to have time to meet at westgate.

[sl8er4lyf]

Lost everyone on the way to the bar and ended up following a blue hornet for a while before deciding he may not have been going to the bar lol, rode home. Great session cheers!

[Itchy_Kiwis]

tonights activities in action

m3iq3WhU7Qc

[TOTO]

you was all talking when I got there.

Awesome to see such a good turnout tho. Keep on riding people :ride:

[KiWiP]

Can we try this [
http://www.youtube.com/v/QImd4AwLmD8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1 ] tomorrow? Probably not enough cones LOL
I can't be there anyway (oldies in town) but see y'all next week. :Punk:

[retro asian]

Can we try this [
http://www.youtube.com/v/QImd4AwLmD8&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1 ] tomorrow? Probably not enough cones LOL
I can't be there anyway (oldies in town) but see y'all next week. :Punk:

Those cops are legends. They don't even hang off or seem to be shifting their bodyweight at all!!

[p.dath]

The angle you need to lean is proportional to the square of the velocity you are travelling at. So at low speeds, you don't (or rather can't) lean or shift you weight without the bike de-stabilising.

[retro asian]

The angle you need to lean is proportional to the square of the velocity you are travelling at. So at low speeds, you don't (or rather can't) lean or shift you weight without the bike de-stabilising.

I meant "opposite lean"....or leaning to the outside


I've heard that cops don't even hang off their bikes at high speeds, but yet they can still catch all the naughty bikers!!

[TOTO]

I meant "opposite lean"....or leaning to the outside


I've heard that cops don't even hang off their bikes at high speeds, but yet they can still catch all the naughty bikers!!


Thast assuming the naughty biker does not experience a 15m elevation change before the cop even gets to him...

[Badger8]

Thast assuming the naughty biker does not experience a 15m elevation change before the cop even gets to him...

And end up in a tree??? :scratch:

See you all there soon! :sunny:
and Big Dog, if you happen to see this, if you can make it to sheel i got a tank of gas with your name on it! :wari:

[carlosliu]

What a great night. Very glad to see Mark and Dawn again!

[p.dath]

+1 on that. Always great to see Mark after all the effort he has invested - and what a difference he has made.

It was my first time meeting Dawn, the thread starter. A person I've been wanting to meet for a while.

[lizard007]

I agree, what an awesome night for a long ride, And yes, it was great to see Mark and Dawn there as well.

[fizbin]

have convinced Mrs Fiz to give me a pass for the night will see you all there.
Simon has you missis popped yet?!

[accident]

Catch you guys in few weeks, I'm going back to ballet dancing :banana: or may be I'ill learn the can-can this time.:woohoo:

Until then Safe riding.

[fizbin]

I'm going back to ballet dancing
bwhahahahahahaha! i can just see you in tights with a sock stuffed down the front of your pants!

[accident]

bwhahahahahahaha! i can just see you in tights with a sock stuffed down the front of your pants!

Thanks for the image! I'm going to see the optometrist just thinking about it.
Blinded for life!

[hctseng]

Videos from tonight

IBOZTbbejTA
dSqSvtDTVCY
TKrW6jmGfE0

Something is missing...............Where is our routine "SPARKIE" Toto ??!!!

[TOTO]

lol, if you gonna be there next time Hayden and its dry I'll spark you up :ride:

[Itchy_Kiwis]

thats a really great job Htcseng i missed the last one
thanks for recording it !
its just like tvnz Ondemand. LOL only better.



btw how to post youtube content on the board is llike this
[youtube.]###########[/youtube.]
replace the ###### with everything in the address of the video after the "="but not including!!!
eg your first vid djCWZ8ISbJc
NOTE!! so i could show you the script i had to insert a full stop after the the word youtube in brackets
you must not put that in for it to work

[hctseng]

Thanks so much !!! I am learning something everyday !!!


thats a really great job Htcseng i missed the last one
thanks for recording it !
its just like tvnz Ondemand. LOL only better.



btw how to post youtube content on the board is llike this
[youtube.]###########[/youtube.]
replace the ###### with everything in the address of the video after the "="but not including!!!
eg your first vid djCWZ8ISbJc
NOTE!! so i could show you the script i had to insert a full stop after the the word youtube in brackets
you must not put that in for it to work

[fizbin]

Nice vids man.
Might have to flog the wifes camera and do the same thing next week.
I really like the part when the TL started ROFL:whistle:

[BMCruiser]

Excellent to see the video, especially for those of us who didn't get along this week. Will these be a regular feature now?

Great for revision too :)

[TOTO]

nothing beats the real thing imo.

while we on the vids topic look what i found :clap:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/uezJfTG9ELI&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uezJfTG9ELI&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[fizbin]

bwhahahahahahaha that made my morning after i had to get up because of the kids.

[thehovel]

Nass riders are invited on this mentor ride as KB & ulysses mentor program are now in parallel and complimentary. At the moment North only as Sis is still on holiday. I have left the Ulysses posting as read John the Mentor coordinator for Ulysses. All questions on KB :: Richard Tweedie 02102783488 or Answer phone 09 4820478 Speak clearly Regards Richard PS this is an open road mentoring

Sat- 20th Feb MENTORING AFTERNOON
Our Mentors are offering everyone who believes they would
like help in anyway with their riding skills. This is on a one on
one basis. Come along on the third Saturday of each month
whether you have registered or not.
We have two venues, both meeting at 2:00pm. Those living
North or West Auckland meet at Main highway, Albany Village,
opposite Toyota. Those living South or East Auckland, meet at
Aviation Café, Ardmore Airport. Phone John H for further info.
John is RIC - Phone 09 810 9160 or 021 - 128 5806

[R-Soul]

I have to say that while I learnt from riding around the cones on the one night I went, I did not feel like there was enough instruction on the theoretically correct way of doing things, and why.

Anybody elese think this too? If it is actually stated upfront, so we know what to look for and what we should be doing, it makes us learn (or at least exchange info and techniques) a lot faster than screwing around for ages before the light goes on.

[p.dath]

I have to say that while I learnt from riding around the cones on the one night I went, I did not feel like there was enough instruction on the theoretically correct way of doing things, and why.

Anybody elese think this too? If it is actually stated upfront, so we know what to look for and what we should be doing, it makes us learn (or at least exchange info and techniques) a lot faster than screwing around for ages before the light goes on.

If I could be so bold, I reckon I could demonstrate why counter-steering works in 60s without using any big words (like gyroscopic). I've been reading about the theory of counter steering recently, and about 88% of the effect comes from simple mechanics of motion (it's surprising how little the gyroscopic effect actually contributes ...).

Perhaps Richard and BigDog (have I got that handle correct?) may be kind enough to let steal 60s.


My experience is that you need at least three months of riding time before counter-steering will actually "click" in your head, and that riding time is needed more than theory to learn it. So I think the current approach is best ... just my two cents.

I would also encourage you to ask questions if something doesn't make sense or feels wrong. Everyone is really keen to help - and everyone learns a little bit different.

[R-Soul]

If I could be so bold, I reckon I could demonstrate why counter-steering works in 60s without using any big words (like gyroscopic). I've been reading about the theory of counter steering recently, and about 88% of the effect comes from simple mechanics of motion (it's surprising how little the gyroscopic effect actually contributes ...).

Perhaps Richard and BigDog (have I got that handle correct?) may be kind enough to let steal 60s.


My experience is that you need at least three months of riding time before counter-steering will actually "click" in your head, and that riding time is needed more than theory to learn it. So I think the current approach is best ... just my two cents.

I would also encourage you to ask questions if something doesn't make sense or feels wrong. Everyone is really keen to help - and everyone learns a little bit different.


What have you been reading? I would be interezted to know how it works in simple mechanical terms without gyroscopics coming into play? I am not sure why you say it takes so long fo rcounter steering to click. Nobody ever taught me about it,l and when I figured it out for myself, it was instantaneous.

It just makes sense to me that if its an instructional course, then there should be some instruction. Instead we just did slalom between the cones with no instruction of what techniques there are to choose from or suggestions of how to better our technique. Or a demo of the correct technique.

Make no mistake, I dont want to sound like my namesake (although I am probably not doing a great job of this), I am just talking up for people that do want to get the most out of these evenings, and suggesting a way to make them more effective. Sure, going out and doing is the best way of learning for real. But you should at least have an idea of what you are aiming for. That way you can at least tell if you have done it wrong.

Use it, dont use it....


PS And I dont see what there is to "get" about counter steering. You want to go right at speed? Push forward on the right bar. You want to go left at speed? Push forward on the left bar. No other instruction needed. Instant control.
But without anybody telling me this in very simple terminology like I just did, it took me months of riding and a coupe of accidents n my teens to find out. There is a place for theory before practice.

[R-Soul]

I saw this comment on the california superbike school forums site - its very interesting reading in general. Perhaps we could do this one one day at teh NASS events?

PS teh website is http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showforum=11&prune_day=100&sort_by=Z-A&sort_key=last_post&topicfilter=all&st=15

"For all of you,

This is an interesting topic.
Maybe the following will be of interest to you.

I have been a motor instructor for more then a decade and am currently working as an examinator in Holland.

So when people are taking a test drive to get their driving license they have to show me their ability.

One of the manoeuvers the kandidate has to execute is swerving and avoiding an obstacle.
They must approach a gate of 1meter wide ( 2 cones )with a speed of 50 km/h and then swerve left around the obstacle ( 4 cones ) wich is placed at a distance of 15 meters from the gate and 2 meters to the left of the left hand cone of the gate.
After swerving around the obstacle they must get back in to their original riding line within 18 meters of the obstacle.( 1 cone )
The kandidate is only allowed to shut down the throttle and steer when his bike is in the gate.
He/she is not allowed to brake or downshift.

Properly executing this excercise means quick steering, there's no other way to do this.
We find this to be a fantastic excercise wich gives the new motorcycle rider a lot of ability and control in a variety of situations.

The key things in a proper execution are: ( as far as we're concerned )
1 A firm grip of the tank with your knees. ( try to get a dent in the tank )
2 As many contactpatches between the bike and your legs.
3 Shoulder and arms not tightened but relaxed.
4 The bike should move beneath you, the upper body stays almost upright.
5 A firm but short steering input of the handlebar.
6 And most important of all, where you look is where you go, so look around the obstacle, not towards it.

Now all you need is a piece of quiet asphalt and 7 cones, or beercans or whatever you can use to practice the excercise.
Sorry but you have to convert the metrics to your system.

P.s. If you're going to practice; start at slower speeds first. Work your way up from about 30 km/h

Would love to hear any comment on this.

Mike Kromjong
Holland"


It might have been done already? Anybody?

[p.dath]

What have you been reading? I would be interezted to know how it works in simple mechanical terms without gyroscopics coming into play?

This is the article I like best:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

[p.dath]

I am not sure why you say it takes so long fo rcounter steering to click. Nobody ever taught me about it,l and when I figured it out for myself, it was instantaneous
....
PS And I dont see what there is to "get" about counter steering. You want to go right at speed? Push forward on the right bar. You want to go left at speed? Push forward on the left bar. No other instruction needed. Instant control.

Perhaps you got it quickly.
My personal experience and those of people I have helped has led me to the conclusion you need about three months of riding practice before you can really start counter-steering with intent.

For example, last Wednesday my personal perception is that the biggest issues were with body posture (such as wrongly making arms rigid), throttle control [on off on off] (to keep the bike stable), and not looking were you wanted to go.

I don't feel "qualified" to help a lot of the people out on Wednesday (which is why we have people like Richard and BigDog [??]), but even so, I still pulled a rider with one month of experience to one side and spent about 10 or 15 minutes with him helping him out. We went to the other car park which was less crowded. He "got" counter-steering, but his big problem was throttle control which kept making him wobble when trying to counter-steer, and upsetting the bike. Didn't take long to get him up to speed to re-join the group. After another month he'll find he wont be having to think about throttle control because it will be automatic. He'll be able to concentrate on something else then ...

[R-Soul]

Perhaps you got it quickly.
My personal experience and those of people I have helped has led me to the conclusion you need about three months of riding practice before you can really start counter-steering with intent.

For example, last Wednesday my personal perception is that the biggest issues were with body posture (such as wrongly making arms rigid), throttle control [on off on off] (to keep the bike stable), and not looking were you wanted to go.

I don't feel "qualified" to help a lot of the people out on Wednesday (which is why we have people like Richard and BigDog [??]), but even so, I still pulled a rider with one month of experience to one side and spent about 10 or 15 minutes with him helping him out. We went to the other car park which was less crowded. He "got" counter-steering, but his big problem was throttle control which kept making him wobble when trying to counter-steer, and upsetting the bike. Didn't take long to get him up to speed to re-join the group. After another month he'll find he wont be having to think about throttle control because it will be automatic. He'll be able to concentrate on something else then ...

Well done - anybody that spreads theory around is doing good I reckon- it makes peple think about itand experiment and try different things - instead of just doing what they have always done and stay ignorant.

I checked that article out from Wiki- nice one as it gives numbers (I like numbers!).
I was surprised when I read that t the gyroscopic precession is aonly a small part of the countersteering effect (3.5Nm as opposed to 30Nm of torque on the bike). However he did not mention teh weight of teh bike presumed to be the figure of 30Nm, and I wionder about the assumption of 1 degree of turn in half a second. To me, 5 or 10 degrees of turn in half a second seems more likely, or 3 degrees in 0.2 of a second? That would multiply the gyroscopic effect substantially (up to ten times?).

They also dont mention what the gyroscopic effect would do to keep the bike upright against the lean angle of the bike without the turning of the bars (i.e. if there was lean angle alone, but no sudden turn on the bars creating the precession moment on the bike's centre of mass) - although they are inextricably linked so I guess that argument is moot.

Thanks for the link.

While we are at it, can anybody explain why "chopping" the throttle mid turn causes the front end to break away?
After all the same forces apply, but the speed is decreased, so the forces acting outwardly on the bike should decrease, not increase them to cause them to overcome the friction of the front tyre?

Perhaps teh weight shift to teh front of teh bike causes the forks to dip, and the steering geometry to change, causing a quick change in turn in (i..e a suddenly decreasing turn radius) that increases the cenripetal forces due to teh sudden changes in radius? To my mind then, this effect would not be seen in bicycles with no suspension? maybe a cyclist can confirm this?

[p.dath]

While we are at it, can anybody explain why "chopping" the throttle mid turn causes the front end to break away?
After all the same forces apply, but the speed is decreased, so the forces acting outwardly on the bike should decrease, not increase them to cause them to overcome the friction of the front tyre?

If we limit the discussion to only counter-steering, as opposed to cornering in general; the bike is an upside down pendulum - all the weight is at the top and it pivots about the bottom. As a result it is unstable and liable to fall over without constant input from the rider.
To do counter steering your centre of mass has to be offset from the bike (either to the left or the right - actually this is the entire point of counter-steering). You do this to deliberately de-stablise the bike so that it can turn. This is what makes the bike lean over.

Once the bike is leaned over you have to do something to stop it falling over. This is where the throttle comes in. You have to apply sufficient throttle which tries to push the centre of mass straight ahead (correcting the lean), while gravity is busy trying to make you lean even more. If you suddenly close the throttle the force on the centre of mass which tries to straighten the bike up is reduced, but gravity stays the same. Now something bad is going to happen ...
It is also why if you apply when you apply more throttle at the end the bike straightens up, because the force becomes greater than that of gravity.

Gryroscopic forces do come into play, but they are a minor part of the equation (depending on the weight of the rider and the weight of the spinning wheels - but usually not a big percentage of the equation).

This is easier to demonstrate sitting on a bike. I'll try and come along this Wednesday. Find me and I'll show you.

[R-Soul]

If you suddenly close the throttle the force on the centre of mass which tries to straighten the bike up is reduced, but gravity stays the same. Now something bad is going to happen ...
It is also why if you apply when you apply more throttle at the end the bike straightens up, because the force becomes greater than that of gravity.



Sure I get that the throttle controls the sped of the bike, which establishes the size of the centripetal force (acting on the combined centre of mass of bike and rider) to push the bike outwardly. This centripetal force is balanced by that component of the gravitational force acting inwardly at teh same centre of mass. But these forces are acting as a moment about the tyre contact patch. Think of the bike and rider as a lever about the contact patch (i.e. extending from the contact patch to their combined centre of mass). If speed decreases for given amount of lean, then the centripetal force decreases and the lean inward increases. If the speed increases, the cenripetal force increases and the lean decreases (i.e. bike goes more upright).

But why does chopping the throttle cause a breakaway AT the contact patch, and not just a sudden change in lean angle? Especially as the centripetal forces are decreasing, so the total outward force decreases?

[Badger8]

All this discussion (i didnt read most of it to be honest) is merely academic. i read all about it when i started riding too, but the best thing i ever did was try it out as follows.

Go to an empty road, cruise along at about 50 kph. Loosen your grip right up on the bars, and GENTLY push forward on one of the bars and see which way you go. Slowly increase the pressure with repeated times, and you will soon get the feel of how your bike tips in.

I did this on my third time out on a bike, and suddenly everything i had been reading didnt matter anymore. I didnt care how it works, all that matters is that it works! I had been doing it subconsciously when i leaned into corners anyway (pushing slightly forward on the inside bar) but now that i had a feel for it and could do it intentionally, my cornering improved exponentially.

The theory side of things has been covered a lot at NASS in the past, and i'm sure if you speak up and ask, someone can have a long chat about it and show you how it works on the bike before heading out. The instructors can only give you want you specifically want if you ask! :yes:

i am off work ill at the moment, but hoping to be back by next week at the latest, and would be happy to run you through any theory you like, then send you out to put it into practice :niceone:

[R-Soul]

i am off work ill at the moment, but hoping to be back by next week at the latest, and would be happy to run you through any theory you like, then send you out to put it into practice :niceone:

I know how to do it. I am just interested in the theory - if you could answer my question below I would be happy.

[p.dath]

Sure I get that the throttle controls the sped of the bike, which establishes the size of the centripetal force (acting on the combined centre of mass of bike and rider) to push the bike outwardly. This centripetal force is balanced by that component of the gravitational force acting inwardly at teh same centre of mass. But these forces are acting as a moment about the tyre contact patch. Think of the bike and rider as a lever about the contact patch (i.e. extending from the contact patch to their combined centre of mass). If speed decreases for given amount of lean, then the centripetal force decreases and the lean inward increases. If the speed increases, the cenripetal force increases and the lean decreases (i.e. bike goes more upright).

But why does chopping the throttle cause a breakaway AT the contact patch, and not just a sudden change in lean angle? Especially as the centripetal forces are decreasing, so the total outward force decreases?

The force caused by the throttle mostly acts at the centre of mass - not at the tyre contact patch. Although of course, the rear contact patch is where the power is delivered.

When counter-steering the bike pivots at the tyre contact patch though. So pivots at the bottom, but the force acts half way up the bike. Hence it tries to push the bike over. The bike is pretty much trying to rotate longitudinally. The front tyre will continue to hold unless this rotational force becomes too great.

[R-Soul]

The force caused by the throttle mostly acts at the centre of mass - not at the tyre contact patch. Although of course, the rear contact patch is where the power is delivered.

When counter-steering the bike pivots at the tyre contact patch though. So pivots at the bottom, but the force acts half way up the bike. Hence it tries to push the bike over.

Right- you've got it. Forces caused by the throttle (and velocity) act at the centre of mass. So why does chopping the throttle suddenly in a corner cause the front wheel CONTACT PATCH to break away? Especially as it will be reducing speed?

Do you see my question now?

[MarkH]

the centripetal force (acting on the combined centre of mass of bike and rider) to push the bike outwardly.

Other way around - centripetal force is the INWARD force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal
The outward force is inertia (sometimes mistakenly named centrifugal force) which causes an object to tend towards carrying on in a straight line.
The greater the centripetal force the tighter the turn.

It's all simple fizziks really!

[R-Soul]

Other way around - centripetal force is the INWARD force: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centripetal
The outward force is inertia (sometimes mistakenly named centrifugal force) which causes an object to tend towards carrying on in a straight line.
The greater the centripetal force the tighter the turn.

It's all simple fizziks really!

OK thanks for the claririfcation (my engineering terminilogy is fuzzy - its been a while). So its the same number but in an opposite direction.

The friction force at the contact patch must equal the centripetal force required to keep the bike on the corner.

And the opposite force to the centripetal forec (call it "inertial" force) acting as a moment around the contact patch must balance the inward component of the weight of the bike (which must also equal the centripetal force for there to be equilibrium and no change in lean angle).

When the throttle (i.e.velocity) increases, so does the centripetal force required to keep the bike on the corner, since this is will increase the inertia. But when the throttle is reduced, the velocity changes downwardly, reducing the inertial force, and allowing the bike to lean in more as the weight component is no longer balanced. This is why you could slow down as the radius of a curve decreases to increase your lean angle (or alternately you could counter steer more).

Rolling off gently is fine- but why does chopping it result in a breakaway at the conatct patch?

I still have no answers?

[p.dath]

Rolling off gently is fine- but why does chopping it result in a breakaway at the conatct patch?

Perhaps lets clarify the question. Are you meaning a loss of traction? I don't think you should be loosing traction while counter-steering.

[R-Soul]

Perhaps lets clarify the question. Are you meaning a loss of traction? I don't think you should be loosing traction while counter-steering.

Actually my original question had nothing to do with CS. I just wanted to know why you tend to have highsides from a loss of traction if you chop the throttle mid corner. Throttle control is all important mid corner- I want to know why - the fizziks of it.

[R-Soul]

Perhaps lets clarify the question. Are you meaning a loss of traction? I don't think you should be loosing traction while counter-steering.

PS d.path are you going to be at the riding class on Wednesday? It would be cool to meet you eventually.

I need to get a pink slip first...but its all in the interests of safety so its essential right!!? ;)

[p.dath]

PS d.path are you going to be at the riding class on Wednesday? It would be cool to meet you eventually.

I need to get a pink slip first...but its all in the interests of safety so its essential right!!? ;)

I should be there, unless a whole pile of parts turn up for my bike, then I'll be busy in my garage.

[Big Dog]

I have to say that while I learnt from riding around the cones on the one night I went, I did not feel like there was enough instruction on the theoretically correct way of doing things, and why.

Anybody elese think this too? If it is actually stated upfront, so we know what to look for and what we should be doing, it makes us learn (or at least exchange info and techniques) a lot faster than screwing around for ages before the light goes on.
I try to keep instruction to a minimum as I am told I am too wordy and judging from the faces of the attendees if I explained any further most would go to sleeep on the spot.
I am however available after to discuss in greater detail with those who wish to.

[Big Dog]

Actually my original question had nothing to do with CS. I just wanted to know why you tend to have highsides from a loss of traction if you chop the throttle mid corner. Throttle control is all important mid corner- I want to know why - the fizziks of it.

A highside is ususally the result of catastrophicly regaining traction.
You lose the traction.
You regain it in a sudden manner whilst your forward motion no longer exceeds your lateral trajectory.
This results in an uprighting of your bike so sudden you now exceed grafiy in your motion.

The less likely and far easier to arrest if you catch it in time is when you have not in fact lost traction, but rather your grip and sideways motion rotate your bike violently along the lateral axis resulting in a catapult..

[R-Soul]

I should be there, unless a whole pile of parts turn up for my bike, then I'll be busy in my garage.

Pink slip denied!! Its bulk shopping day, and I am babysitter for the night...
ah well... next week!

[R-Soul]

I try to keep instruction to a minimum as I am told I am too wordy and judging from the faces of the attendees if I explained any further most would go to sleeep on the spot.
I am however available after to discuss in greater detail with those who wish to.

I think I did end up talkingto you since you were talking o others, but I think what was frustrating was not knowing who the person to speak to was? This was not pointed out early.

[R-Soul]

A highside is ususally the result of catastrophicly regaining traction.
You lose the traction.
You regain it in a sudden manner whilst your forward motion no longer exceeds your lateral trajectory.
This results in an uprighting of your bike so sudden you now exceed grafiy in your motion.

The less likely and far easier to arrest if you catch it in time is when you have not in fact lost traction, but rather your grip and sideways motion rotate your bike violently along the lateral axis resulting in a catapult..

Thanks for that- but I know what a high side is - now I want to know why chopping throttle suddenly in a corner results in one.

[BoristheBiter]

Thanks for that- but I know what a high side is - now I want to know why chopping throttle suddenly in a corner results in one.

in very simple terms, when you chop the throttle off the bike stops you dont.

[Big Dog]

in very simple terms, when you chop the throttle off the bike stops you dont.

Resulting in your lateral inertia exceeding your longitudinal inertia. Like a catapult.

[Big Dog]

in very simple terms, when you chop the throttle off the bike stops you dont.

Resulting in your lateral inertia exceeding your longitudinal inertia. Like a catapult.

[fizbin]

or this can be displayed by
66ZtZ8m63qY&feature=related

[Badger8]

Actually my original question had nothing to do with CS. I just wanted to know why you tend to have highsides from a loss of traction if you chop the throttle mid corner. Throttle control is all important mid corner- I want to know why - the fizziks of it.

You are mid corner, gently rolling on the throttle. Bike is settled, slight throttle helping keep the suspension taught, contact patch at the rear loaded up, not too much on the (smaller) contact patch at the front.
Chop the throttle, rear lifts, suddenly you have a lot more load pushing down the line of the forks (so outward at an angle to the ground) on a smaller (relative to the rear) contact patch. Static coefficient of friction is overcome reulting in one of two things.
option less pain: Lowside. Front washes away, bike lays down, you go slippity slide.
option more pain: highside. Front tire, now unloaded of some of this force as the suspension pushes out now front contact patch is moving sideways, finds eough grip and grabs. Static coefficient of friction is higher than kinetic, grips hard, throws you over like a catapult. Ouchies.

That do it for ya? :)

[fizbin]

Or as someone so eloquently put it:
FAIL
:crybaby::weep:

[TOTO]

or this can be displayed by
66ZtZ8m63qY&feature=related

looks to me that he had not actually exercised prior to attempting this. Hence resulting in him opening the throttle on the 1000cc sports too much, which resulted in him loosing traction on the back wheel, then shutting it completely and then as Matt said, he catastrophically regains traction, resulting in a catapult type motion. If the rider had taken his time in the car park , and slowly built his confidence in riding the bike progressively lower and with the right body position, this would have not happened. It is all about practice and the car park is the best and the safest place to do it.

Nice noght peeps, hope to catch you all next week. Hope you all getting down to paeroa to watch the racing this sunday. It will be a minter.

Be safe :ride:

[hctseng]

My bike has now lost its virginity to Toto :crybaby:..............He was a rough "MONSTER" says my ninja ~ !!! :slap:

cTGmShCItU0
3RgOHEoaEeU

[TOTO]

I was gentle

[p.dath]

What is Simon's login name on here?

[TOTO]

......sly_gay (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/20060-Sly_guy)

[retro asian]

......sly_gay (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/20060-Sly_guy)

sly = srsly = seriously ?

[Choco]

looks to me that he had not actually exercised prior to attempting this. Hence resulting in him opening the throttle on the 1000cc sports too much, which resulted in him loosing traction on the back wheel, then shutting it completely and then as Matt said, he catastrophically regains traction, resulting in a catapult type motion. If the rider had taken his time in the car park , and slowly built his confidence in riding the bike progressively lower and with the right body position, this would have not happened. It is all about practice and the car park is the best and the safest place to do it.

Nice noght peeps, hope to catch you all next week. Hope you all getting down to paeroa to watch the racing this sunday. It will be a minter.

Be safe :ride:

HE should have also probably warmed his tyres up first ;)

[R-Soul]

... Chop the throttle, rear lifts, suddenly you have a lot more load pushing down the line of the forks (so outward at an angle to the ground) on a smaller (relative to the rear) contact patch. Static coefficient of friction is overcome ...

That do it for ya? :)


Yes - you pointed out that the weight moving forward was also at an angle outward - something I had not thought about. I had taken into consideration that moving weight onto front wheel would actually increase is frictional ability (since friction is proportional to downward force)- but not that the weight increase also has a sideways component as well as downwards.

Thanks that explains it well.

[Big Dog]

Yes - you pointed out that the weight moving forward was also at an angle outward - something I had not thought about. I had taken into consideration that moving weight onto front wheel would actually increase is frictional ability (since friction is proportional to downward force)- but not that the weight increase also has a sideways component as well as downwards.

Thanks that explains it well.
Contributory to this is the fact that at this time the suspension will rapidly decompress.

[Badger8]

Yes - you pointed out that the weight moving forward was also at an angle outward - something I had not thought about. I had taken into consideration that moving weight onto front wheel would actually increase is frictional ability (since friction is proportional to downward force)- but not that the weight increase also has a sideways component as well as downwards.

Thanks that explains it well.

Yes it will increase the spread of the tire a little, and increase contact patch, but there is suddenly a LOT more force acting on that patch, so the traction is overcome.


Contributory to this is the fact that at this time the suspension will rapidly decompress.

Indeed. Then you get a big whack of force all at once and whoopsies!

[Nim]

Hi Guys

I don't know if I have the energy to read through the full 207 pages but is the NASS still on? More specifically is the meeting time for say this Wednesday at 7pm in Albany? I need a good dose of rider education!

[p.dath]

Hi Guys

I don't know if I have the energy to read through the full 207 pages but is the NASS still on? More specifically is the meeting time for say this Wednesday at 7pm in Albany? I need a good dose of rider education!

Yes ......

[sl8er4lyf]

Rock up to Shell Westgate at 6.30 for meting some cool people and a ride to Albany then training, or just meet us at Albany, quite a few do that; either way, its a great time and you gain knowledge that will save your life, no question about it.

P.S. Have been sick last 2 weeks, will be here on Wed!

[Sly_guy]

......sly_gay (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php/20060-Sly_guy)

Cheers mate ! :)...

You just wish I was !!! ;)

[Sly_guy]

Rock up to Shell Westgate at 6.30 for meting some cool people !

I must be going to the wrong place.... :), the only people I meet are a few biker wierdos and some hairy old fart called Richard ! :D :D :D

[sl8er4lyf]

I must be going to the wrong place.... :), the only people I meet are a few biker wierdos and some hairy old fart called Richard ! :D :D :D

..OH Nim did I mention their sense of humour? :lol:

[Badger8]

Well i finally got a chance to try out my birthday present on the weekend, a rather small (but surprisingly high quality) digital video camera that i can clip on to my jacket.

So if anyone would like to see their riding on camera to have a good look at their lines or see if there's anything they want to work on, let me know and i can sit behind you on the ride over through riverhead.

If i had a decent connection i would upload a sample to youtube (went through there on sat), but alas my connection is crap at the moment... Any volunteers to upload 330MB for me? :-p

Will try and make it on wed if anyone is interested :wari:

[TOTO]

thats sounds neat

[fizbin]

Well i finally got a chance to try out my birthday present on the weekend, a rather small (but surprisingly high quality) digital video camera that i can clip on to my jacket.

So if anyone would like to see their riding on camera to have a good look at their lines or see if there's anything they want to work on, let me know and i can sit behind you on the ride over through riverhead.

If i had a decent connection i would upload a sample to youtube (went through there on sat), but alas my connection is crap at the moment... Any volunteers to upload 330MB for me? :-p

Will try and make it on wed if anyone is interested :wari:

ahh man i want one of those!
you could borrow my connection! or just bug sly_gay he got the best connections here and he lives on the shore as well.
who knows maybe you could make a connection together! try to start converting the other side.

[Danae]

Well i finally got a chance to try out my birthday present on the weekend, a rather small (but surprisingly high quality) digital video camera that i can clip on to my jacket.

So if anyone would like to see their riding on camera to have a good look at their lines or see if there's anything they want to work on, let me know and i can sit behind you on the ride over through riverhead.

If i had a decent connection i would upload a sample to youtube (went through there on sat), but alas my connection is crap at the moment... Any volunteers to upload 330MB for me? :-p

Will try and make it on wed if anyone is interested :wari:

:D If I make it on wednesday reckon you could follow me for a while? After my crash (ages ago) I still feel like my tyres are going to slip out from under me with no warning. It'd be good to see how I'm riding and that I'm probably not leaning at all, might get my confidence back :)

[Badger8]

ahh man i want one of those!
you could borrow my connection! or just bug sly_gay he got the best connections here and he lives on the shore as well.
who knows maybe you could make a connection together! try to start converting the other side.

Will indeed be stealing sly_gay's connection, might see if i can make a connection with his missus tho, she still wont spit that kid out! (Maybe if i make a connection between my boot and her gut? :laugh:)

Would suggest (if more than 1 is interested) we get 2 or three people lined up in front of me for a video session, and i can zip up the line and spread the love :msn-wink: :buggerd:

[retro asian]

and i can zip up the line and spread the love :msn-wink: :buggerd:

Wear your wet weather gear people...

[hctseng]

So if anyone would like to see their riding on camera to have a good look at their lines or see if there's anything they want to work on,

... Any volunteers to upload 330MB for me? :-p

Will try and make it on wed if anyone is interested :wari:

I would love to be the person to be followed, for the past few rides I have been trying to follow and learn other people's line selection but something just isnt quite right, following someone like Toto is useless cuz he just disappears :scooter: (j/k)

Happy to have a go uploading the 330mb on youtube if you could bring it on a CD or something :yes:

[p.dath]

I would love to be the person to be followed, for the past few rides I have been trying to follow and learn other people's line selection but something just isnt quite right, following someone like Toto is useless cuz he just disappears :scooter: (j/k)

Tell them you want to follow them so they wont take off then ...

[hctseng]

Would people mind tho? It thought it would be a pain to slow someone down if they want to go a bit faster or are used to ride at a faster pace?

[p.dath]

Would people mind tho? It thought it would be a pain to slow someone down if they want to go a bit faster or are used to ride at a faster pace?

Your welcome to follow me, and I doubt anyone else would care. It's a training night. There's no award for arriving first.

[hctseng]

Your welcome to follow me, and I doubt anyone else would care. It's a training night. There's no award for arriving first.

Cool Thanks so much ~ !!! I am assuming you got all the parts now and have had a successful repairing job !!! Congrats and welcome back !!!

[p.dath]

Cool Thanks so much ~ !!! I am assuming you got all the parts now and have had a successful repairing job !!! Congrats and welcome back !!!

Yes, my bike is very rideable. I'll be along tomorrow. I'm having a minor plastic weld done to one of my fairings today, but will be picking it up tomorrow to re-assemble for the ride.

[Haymaker]

Anyone heading to the ride tomorrow night from Balmoral Road way? Looking for an escort to and from the ride if possible.

[hctseng]

Anyone heading to the ride tomorrow night from Balmoral Road way? Looking for an escort to and from the ride if possible.

I live off St Andrews Road, can meet you at BP on 170 Balmoral Road just b4 warehouse if you want, give me a txt 021 665 777

[TOTO]

I would love to be the person to be followed, for the past few rides I have been trying to follow and learn other people's line selection but something just isnt quite right, following someone like Toto is useless cuz he just disappears :scooter: (j/k)



like p.dath said, if you want to follow someone, you have to let them know, coz they can be doing all sorths of things which you shouldn't make your habbit. If you tell the person you would like to follow them, they will have it in mind and give the best possible example.

[hctseng]

Thanks Toto : ) I have checked myself in on 6th March so we could ride there together : )

[TOTO]

all good, me and simon usually meet at 6am at cycletreads and leave from there for the art day :)

[p.dath]

like p.dath said, if you want to follow someone, you have to let them know, coz they can be doing all sorths of things which you shouldn't make your habbit. If you tell the person you would like to follow them, they will have it in mind and give the best possible example.

I have to agree on this one. For instance, the Wednesday ride is easy enough for me that I could take any line I liked through the corners, and because it's easy I don't normally worry about riding the most common line learners should be using.
Now if I knew someone was watching me, I'd make a bigger effort to do everything "properly"
.

all good, me and simon usually meet at 6am at cycletreads and leave from there for the art day :)

I might join you. 6am. Shudder.

[Nim]

I'll be along tonight at the Noel Leeming Car Park in Albany at 7:30 so I'll look forward to meeting you guys there. My name is Nimma and I'll be the bloke riding a blue Honda VTR250 with the black 1Tonne gear and a brand spanker plastic L plate.

[p.dath]

I'll be along tonight at the Noel Leeming Car Park in Albany at 7:30 so I'll look forward to meeting you guys there. My name is Nimma and I'll be the bloke riding a blue Honda VTR250 with the black 1Tonne gear and a brand spanker plastic L plate.

Be great to have you along. Note that sometimes if the weather is real good the ride beforehand gets extended, so don't worry if no one shows up right on 7:30pm.

[p.dath]

We recently did counter-steering around cones for an exercise in obstacle avoidance. I wonder if for tonight we should extend the exercise by saying to do the exercise with no brakes - aka add throttle control to the mix? And perhaps use some of the natural car park obstacles for cornering, rather than using counter-steering for obstacle avoidance?

Just an idea for consideration.

[retro asian]

And perhaps use some of the natural car park obstacles for cornering, rather than using counter-steering for obstacle avoidance?

Good idea.
I want to have a go at doing what the guy in this photo is doing...

[Squiggles]

....

You should take a visit to the CSS, reckon you'd find day 1 pretty interesting

[p.dath]

Good idea.
I want to have a go at doing what the guy in this photo is doing...

Hehe. Made in jest - but to be serious for a second since this is a training thread, I've been told not to move my weight around by simply shifting my bum like in this photo, but instead move your head so that you are "kissing" the mirror, and let that pull your bum over if needed. The guy in that photo is near vertical.

[retro asian]

Hehe. Made in jest - but to be serious for a second since this is a training thread, I've been told not to move my weight around by simply shifting my bum like in this photo, but instead move your head so that you are "kissing" the mirror, and let that pull your bum over if needed. The guy in that photo is near vertical.

Yeah that's true for sports bikes.... I ride a cruiser, I'm special :blink:

[Devil]

... The guy in that photo is near vertical.
That guy is also on a harley...

[p.dath]

Yeah that's true for sports bikes.... I ride a cruiser, I'm special :blink:

I suspect the mirror kissing technique still applies ... but I shall defer to those with more knowledge. I have no experience on a cruiser.

[BoristheBiter]

I suspect the mirror kissing technique still applies ... but I shall defer to those with more knowledge. I have no experience on a cruiser.

look at photos of the SBK or MotoGP and they do just that but it just looks diferent on a cruiser because of the seated position.

[Cr1MiNaL]

I have to agree on this one. For instance, the Wednesday ride is easy enough for me that I could take any line I liked through the corners, and because it's easy I don't normally worry about riding the most common line learners should be using.
Now if I knew someone was watching me, I'd make a bigger effort to do everything "properly"

I think you should be taking the best line through the corner irrespective of whether someone is watching you or not. Then when you get better and start riding 'fast' you will not have to think about your lines. One less thing to think about at speed is one less reason to crash.



Hehe. Made in jest - but to be serious for a second since this is a training thread, I've been told not to move my weight around by simply shifting my bum like in this photo, but instead move your head so that you are "kissing" the mirror, and let that pull your bum over if needed. The guy in that photo is near vertical.

He is on what is supposed to be a cruiser. The same rules do not apply. Have you seen a motard move through the corners or the way you actually lean in the opposite direction to the turn and stick your leg out, or a dirt bike? The bikes are set up differently and have different geometry hence the difference. Learning to ride a bike correctly is not a generic art. Hence one on one coaching is the only way to be technically correct in all aspects of your riding.


That guy is also on a harley...

What he said.

[p.dath]

He is on what is supposed to be a cruiser. The same rules do not apply. Have you seen a motard move through the corners or the way you actually lean in the opposite direction to the turn and stick your leg out, or a dirt bike?

I have a plan to do some practice out at Sandspit off road to learn some more skills to complement my road riding. Alas next month is a tad busy (both ART and RRRS are on), but perhaps the next month I'll higher a bike up there and give it a ago.

[Cr1MiNaL]

p-dath I am only taking the trouble to correct your posts because this is a learner thread; and as such incorrect information on here could potentially be dangerous. You do not kiss the mirrors before shifting your bum / weight off the seat. You shift your bum and weight off the seat first, well before the corner as you are braking for the corner. On entry you slowly lean towards the mirrors and at about the apex you should be kissing the mirror. When you roll on the throttle as you see the exit and are leaving the apex you gradually shift your weight back to the center of the bike. If you watch Moto-Gp or WSBK or even any of the racers on this forum you will see exactly what i mean. Learners pls don't take my word for gospel either find a way that suits you as you are unique.

[GOONR]

.... but instead move your head so that you are "kissing" the mirror.....

I'm in trouble, I've got bar end mirrors. :lol:

[TOTO]

Fantastic to have such a great turnout, with so many new riders and a few of the old mugs too :)

Catch you all next week fellas and fellases

Be safe :ride:


<img src="http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs500.snc3/27282_368823592264_581372264_4813640_360733_n.jpg"> </img>
<img src="http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs500.ash1/27282_368823607264_581372264_4813641_1558467_n.jpg"> </img>

[hctseng]

RBnczNwIQ_A

[Badger8]

all good, me and simon usually meet at 6am at cycletreads and leave from there for the art day :)


I might join you. 6am. Shudder.

I am planning to throw the hornetto on the back of the ute to head down this time, so if you guys want any extra gear taken down just let me know. Happy to carry a gas can or bag of gear for anyone headin down :yes:

Unloading the camera from NASS night now, will throw together a compilation video and throw it sly_gay's way to upload :sunny:

[TOTO]

I am planning to throw the hornetto on the back of the ute to head down this time, so if you guys want any extra gear taken down just let me know. Happy to carry a gas can or bag of gear for anyone headin down :yes:

Unloading the camera from NASS night now, will throw together a compilation video and throw it sly_gay's way to upload :sunny:

you coming to Isaacs birthday to say hi after the track day ?

[fizbin]

i am shorty to have a Ute so if you need me to come and rescue someone let me know. depending on how things are going i thought i might come down and watch you loonies

[p.dath]

You know the exercise we did this week about riding between the two rows of cones - I didn't hear Richard say it was a filtering exercise. I guessed it was a "slow" exercise, as in go as slow as you can and stay between the lines.

Never mind.

[fizbin]

You know the exercise we did this week about riding between the two rows of cones - I didn't hear Richard say it was a filtering exercise. I guessed it was a "slow" exercise, as in go as slow as you can and stay between the lines.

Never mind.
that is what it is designed for to give you slow speed control. the slower the better!

[fizbin]

opps just read the post as to when the track day is. i gues the Ute will have to wait as i don't get that until April.
Never mind!
but at least we have another recovery vehicular after that

[R-Soul]

He is on what is supposed to be a cruiser. The same rules do not apply. Have you seen a motard move through the corners or the way you actually lean in the opposite direction to the turn and stick your leg out, or a dirt bike? The bikes are set up differently and have different geometry hence the difference. Learning to ride a bike correctly is not a generic art. Hence one on one coaching is the only way to be technically correct in all aspects of your riding.


Actually the same rules do apply - the rules of physics. The ability to apply them is just more difficult, which is why they dont race cruiser style bikes in MotoGP.

The idea is to get your body weight lower AND forward.

You get it LOWER(and off the side) to allow you bike to remain more upright going through a corner to allow the suspension to work at angles that it was designed for (i.e. upright).

You get your weight FORWARDto balance the weight distribution between wheels going through a corner, so that both have the maximum grip (the more weight on a wheel, the more grip - to a point). If you go through a corner too fast with not enough weight on teh fornt wheel, or if you apply throttle coming out of a corner too soon and the weight lifts off your front wheel enough, it could cause it to break away for lack of traction. Weight forward is good... again- that is why no cruiser style bike are ridden in Moto GP. [FOR TECHNO FREAKS WHO DONT MIND USING THEIR BRAINS: This is also why the best handling bikes have a front /back weight dirstibution of about 52% back and 48% front (so that when the rider gets on, his weight biases the overall weight distribution to 50/50). ]

It is easier to get weight forward by moving your torso than your ass. And moving your ass sideways is not causing the centre of mass of your body to move downwards - only inwards (pointless). Whereas when you bend your torso over, all that mass that was above the tank, is now almost next to the tank. SO: Kissing the mirror is the best way to go.

[R-Soul]

Actually thinking about it - moving your bum to the side of the saddle will allow you to get your inside leg lower down and your body more forwrd. So its not pointless.

But doing that alone will be largely ineffectual. Its a means to an end.

[Cr1MiNaL]

Actually the same rules do apply - the rules of physics.

You are stating the obvious. Of cause the rules of physics apply. They do not automatically 'switch off' when you jump on a cruiser! I'm sure even the learners who are reading know what I mean so I will not go into further detail. Most crusiers were not made to go through corners hence why they don't race them in Moto Gp which of cause is all about the corners. No need to complicate things too much , just look at a cruiser bike, nothing on it says "I do the business in the corners".

[R-Soul]

You are stating the obvious. Of cause the rules of physics apply. They do not automatically 'switch off' when you jump on a cruiser! I'm sure even the learners who are reading know what I mean so I will not go into further detail. Most crusiers were not made to go through corners hence why they don't race them in Moto Gp which of cause is all about the corners. No need to complicate things too much , just look at a cruiser bike, nothing on it says "I do the business in the corners".

Right, and the reason is because the wight distribution is too heavily biased in favour of the rear end. Which is why braking on the back wheel is more effective on cruisers than sports bikes. But that means that it is even more critical for cruiser riders to get their weight forward if they want to do higher speed cornering. (note: Actually if you have a cruiser, you should not really be doing high speed cornering in the first place).

[R-Soul]

You are stating the obvious. Of cause the rules of physics apply. They do not automatically 'switch off' when you jump on a cruiser! I'm sure even the learners who are reading know what I mean so I will not go into further detail. Most crusiers were not made to go through corners hence why they don't race them in Moto Gp which of cause is all about the corners. No need to complicate things too much , just look at a cruiser bike, nothing on it says "I do the business in the corners".

Well, if its so bleeding obvious, why are others here asking IF the same rules apply? Maybe it seems obvious to you- but clearly not to others. Of course the laws of physics dont "switch off' - but clearly its not obvious HOW they still apply and what makes the difference in handling.

Someone asked, I replied. Shoot a guy down for trying to help, wont you?

[retro asian]

You get it LOWER(and off the side) to allow you bike to remain more upright going through a corner to allow the suspension to work at angles that it was designed for (i.e. upright).

...and to stop your foot pegs / floorboards scraping on every tight corner. :innocent:


(note: Actually if you have a cruiser, you should not really be doing high speed cornering in the first place).

...except when owning sports bikes...

<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=197642&d=1266790747" width = 640 height = 480 >

[R-Soul]

...except when owning sports bikes...



Hey the size of the riders balls does not convert directly into the capability of the bike...
(or is that guy being lapped?)

I reckon all the picture shows is that the guys on the sports bikes are not anywhere close to the adhesion limits of their bikes. (Not that I would be able to ride anywhere close to them anyway...)

[Cr1MiNaL]

Well, if its so bleeding obvious, why are others here asking IF the same rules apply? Maybe it seems obvious to you- but clearly not to others. Of course the laws of physics dont "switch off' - but clearly its not obvious HOW they still apply and what makes the difference in handling.

Someone asked, I replied. Shoot a guy down for trying to help, wont you?

My comment was in direct relation to p.daths quote - which in case you didn't care to fully read it was talking about 'kissing the mirror' and 'leaning off to eventually get your knee scraping'. However, you choose to quote me and tried to make it seem like I was in fact misleading him, hence you got shut down and rightly so. I do not wish to bicker with you any further.

[R-Soul]

My comment was in direct relation to p.daths quote - which in case you didn't care to fully read it was talking about 'kissing the mirror' and 'leaning off to eventually get your knee scraping'. However, you choose to quote me and tried to make it seem like I was in fact misleading him, hence you got shut down and rightly so. I do not wish to bicker with you any further.

OK I appreciate that you were saying that it depends on how you want to get through the corner (i.e. Motards go through corners mostly sideways, breaking traction with their back wheel and controlling the slide). That takes different technique, as you effectively want your weight distribution to aid this type of riding.
Fair enough.


No more bickering

[Badger8]

you coming to Isaacs birthday to say hi after the track day ?

Thought he was off to oz or something after his last shindig? i am so out of the loop! :laugh:


i am shorty to have a Ute so if you need me to come and rescue someone let me know. depending on how things are going i thought i might come down and watch you loonies

The company car is a ute?! WIN! :2thumbsup
Give you a burnout comp when you get 'er! :wari:

[TOTO]

Thought he was off to oz or something after his last shindig? i am so out of the loop! :laugh:


hes back for 2 weeks.

[fizbin]

hahah so want one for the wife car!

b9XAC-BvUyo&hl

[TOTO]

cars suck

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k98J4emWryg&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k98J4emWryg&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[Danae]

Sounds like music! :love:

[R-Soul]

On for tomorrow?

[p.dath]

On for tomorrow?

If you turn up, yes. :)

[R-Soul]

If you turn up, yes. :)

Eish! Ya alright no problems- I got pink slip for tonight. I'll be there.

[TOTO]

haha good fun, Philip how is your nose... :killingme

[p.dath]

haha good fun, Philip how is your nose... :killingme

Brother, I have thick skin. :lol:

[R-Soul]

WTF? ?where WAS everybody?

I waited there for ages with another rider - Mike - and nobody pitched?

[p.dath]

WTF? ?where WAS everybody?

I waited there for ages with another rider - Mike - and nobody pitched?

Everyone left at 7pm on time. What time did you arrive?

[R-Soul]

Everyone left at 7pm on time. What time did you arrive?

"Left"? Where did you leave to?

And the thread at the start says that the meeting is at 7:30 at Albany?

[p.dath]

"Left"? Where did you leave to?

And the thread at the start says that the meeting is at 7:30 at Albany?

Oh I see. The session is split into two. The first is a ride departing at 7pm at the end of the North Western, which is then meant to meet at 7:30 at Albany. The ride was extra long last night, and I guess everyone was late arriving.

I don't know what time I got ot the car park, but no one was there when I arrived.

[R-Soul]

I waited there until anout 8:20, and then buggered off.
Thought that maybe I had teh wrong time/place.

[p.dath]

I waited there until anout 8:20, and then buggered off.
Thought that maybe I had teh wrong time/place.

That's not good. I think w'ell need to make a point of keeping the ride on time to stop this happening again.

[R-Soul]

That's not good. I think w'ell need to make a point of keeping the ride on time to stop this happening again.

ah well... next time...

[zealchick]

Was a great ride i think we got to Albany about 8.30? It was my first ride with you guys. Oh and thanks to the guys that helped me through the road works..... had a small panic attack! But you guys are really helpful thanks was awesome!

[hctseng]

WTF? ?where WAS everybody?

I waited there for ages with another rider - Mike - and nobody pitched?

What's with the attitude? There is no need to talk like this right? Sorry we were a bit late because the group had decided to take a longer ride......

[KiWiP]

What's with the attitude?

+1

You don't need to apologise. As I see it the evening starts with the run then there is training in the carpark. The trainers are experienced and professional bikers who give up their own time for free, week in week out sunshine or rain throughout the year. If you can't make it to the start of the run then you've just got to wait.

"I turned up and got nothing for nothing" BooHoo!!! Wind your neck in and rephrase your comments to something along the lines of "really missed you guys hope to catch up with you next week"

Trainers and mentors you rock! :Punk:

[R-Soul]

+1

You don't need to apologise. As I see it the evening starts with the run then there is training in the carpark. The trainers are experienced and professional bikers who give up their own time for free, week in week out sunshine or rain throughout the year. If you can't make it to the start of the run then you've just got to wait.

"I turned up and got nothing for nothing" BooHoo!!! Wind your neck in and rephrase your comments to something along the lines of "really missed you guys hope to catch up with you next week"

Trainers and mentors you rock! :Punk:

Actually I wrote it thinking that no ride had happened at all. And would have been justified in being pissed off for being dicked around.

And I am justified with my "attiutude" as well. "As you see it" is not how I see it. It is a course, with set times, That people pitch up for AT BOTH PLACES on time for.

Yes the mentors are giving their time for free and we appreciate it, but its common curtesy to do what you say you are going to do. Since others are also taking time out of their busy schedules and away from their families to attend. And if fuck all is going to happen, then I would rather spend it riding around than waiting in a fucking carpark for an hour, wondering if anything is on at all.

Cock.

[Cr1MiNaL]

fuckin noobs with attitudes ... hilarious ... learn something.

[R-Soul]

What's with the attitude? There is no need to talk like this right? Sorry we were a bit late because the group had decided to take a longer ride......

And I have no problem with anybody taking all the time they want on a longer ride- just make it clear ahead of time so I dont have to waste hard earned brownie points on the missus so that I can sit around scratching my ass in the car park, or so I can also join you at the start.

[R-Soul]

And I have no problem with anybody taking all the time they want on a longer ride- just make it clear ahead of time so I dont have to waste hard earned brownie points on the missus so that I can sit around scratching my ass in the car park, or so I can also join you at the start.

Fuckkit...do I sound like a chick?

Do you know whats wrong with this scenario?

Well... if you dont know, then I am not going to tell you!!

[thehovel]

As we (mentors) don't know who is going to turn up ,if there are mostly expeienced riders and it is a great night a longer ride is very much on the cards. Let those who ride decide!!! Regids Richard PS It is only 10km to Westgate

[R-Soul]

As we (mentors) don't know who is going to turn up ,if there are mostly expeienced riders and it is a great night a longer ride is very much on the cards. Let those who ride decide!!! Regids Richard PS It is only 10km to Westgate

Again, it is not as if I dont appreciate what you guys do. And I will ride to Westate from now on, now that I know how it is. But that is not what your events reminder says. Rather change it to say "We ride from Westgate at 6:30, and get to Albany when we get there, depending on the groups mood." At least then anybody else reading it can get that general mood and plan around that.

[Big Dog]

Again, it is not as if I dont appreciate what you guys do. And I will ride to Westate from now on, now that I know how it is. But that is not what your events reminder says. Rather change it to say "We ride from Westgate at 6:30, and get to Albany when we get there, depending on the groups mood." At least then anybody else reading it can get that general mood and plan around that.

Or perhaps you could get the cellphone numbers of those who regularly do the ride, that way if your going to be gracing us with your presence you can text us for a live upate as to expected eta.

This has always been somewhat of a democracy. The people who pitch decide the route and the exercises. There is no mystical committee.

My Number for anyone who wants it is 0210671734.
Keep in mind I may not be able to afford to reply but will do my best to do so (being effectively unemployed until my business gets busier and spending the better part of my weeks fuel budget on this one night).
Your chances are greater if your on Vodafone.

[fizbin]

all i hear as wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa.

[R-Soul]

Or perhaps you could get the cellphone numbers of those who regularly do the ride, that way if your going to be gracing us with your presence you can text us for a live upate as to expected eta.

This has always been somewhat of a democracy. The people who pitch decide the route and the exercises. There is no mystical committee.

My Number for anyone who wants it is 0210671734.
Keep in mind I may not be able to afford to reply but will do my best to do so (being effectively unemployed until my business gets busier and spending the better part of my weeks fuel budget on this one night).
Your chances are greater if your on Vodafone.

I'll do better than that and put in for some fuel - between the bunch of us moochers (wanting something for nothing) I dont want to volunteer people, but surely we could cover a tank. Hell it only takes about $30 to fill a tank, so if we each put in a dollar or two, this should not be a problem.

Any objections from the peanut gallery?

Thats assuming I actually manage to join the group...

[Big Dog]

all i hear as wa wa wa wa wa wa wa wa.

Is that the siren mr fizzy?

[Badger8]

Is that the siren mr fizzy?

na, just him cryin into his beer! :weep:

Bitch pad this week then fizzy? :dodge:

[fizbin]

na, just him cryin into his beer! :weep:

Bitch pad this week then fizzy? :dodge:

beer come on man i haven't had a drink in over a week. i am dieing for beer at the mo!:beer:
Na man the open wounds are nearly healed but the bruising is still there.:doctor:
Don't think i could sit on a bike for long at the mo. Thanks for the offer thou.:stupid:

[fizbin]

Is that the siren mr fizzy?

yeah the siren for the wambulance!

[R-Soul]

yeah the siren for the wambulance!

What happened? Did you have an off?

[Big Dog]

What happened? Did you have an off?

Not sure. I am told his ass got a good chewing.

[fizbin]

i'll post some pics of the bike and gear when i get home

[R-Soul]

Not sure. I am told his ass got a good chewing.

eeeew I dont wanna know about his sex life...

[Squiggles]

Got rubbed up the wrong way i hear

[fizbin]

violated:buggerd:

[fizbin]

well yep some photos of little red and some of the gear:
photo #1 my jeans no not the Kevlar type!
Photo #2 whats left of the front end of the bike
Photo #3 Quasi Gloves (highly recommend)
Photo #4 another jeans phtoto
Photo #5 the Tank
Photo #6 the inside of the Jacket

[p.dath]

Looks like a nasty off. Were those kevlar jeans, or were you effectively riding naked in standard jeans?

[fizbin]

pics of the bike and back protector. i recommend getting one people!
Photo #1 scuff marks on the back protector
Photo #2 Close up of the front end
Photo #3 More back protector
Photo #4 the ass end of the bike or rather what is left of it
Photo #5 Tank
Photo #6 one dead bike

[Jonno.]

Are those draggins?

[fizbin]

Are those draggins?

nope learnt my lesson there

[p.dath]

nope learnt my lesson there

It looks like your jacket remained intact, and the back protector only took a little bit. Is that the way it was?

[zealchick]

well yep some photos of little red and some of the gear:
photo #1 my jeans no not the Kevlar type!
Photo #2 whats left of the front end of the bike
Photo #3 Quasi Gloves (highly recommend)
Photo #4 another jeans phtoto
Photo #5 the Tank
Photo #6 the inside of the Jacket

Owwch!! thats a nasty off!

[Sharry]

Far canal, he must have hit you damb hard:pinch: Thank god for back protectors eh. you lucky to get off that with a hole in your bum lad.

[Big Dog]

I agree with Sharry, that is one far canal.
No lecture for your, it is obviously still a sore spot (or pair of sore spots?).
So how long till you can sit down again?

[samgab]

Crap Fizzy, when did that happen? Jeans aside, a lot to be said for the gear you wear huh? Glad you're (relatively) okay... Sam (yeah, still alive, but no big bike yet, so I've been keeping quiet.)

[fizbin]

It looks like your jacket remained intact, and the back protector only took a little bit. Is that the way it was?
jacket is rooted all the way through. back protector took almost all of the impact... other than y arse that is!


Far canal, he must have hit you damb hard:pinch: Thank god for back protectors eh. you lucky to get off that with a hole in your bum lad.
yeah i was very very luck to get off with just some gravel rash and a sore back. although from what i can remember he didn't hit me all that hard


I agree with Sharry, that is one far canal.
No lecture for your, it is obviously still a sore spot (or pair of sore spots?).
So how long till you can sit down again?
i can sit at the mo but it is no comfortable. the gravel rash is nearly healed it is my back that is killing me more than anything else.


Crap Fizzy, when did that happen? Jeans aside, a lot to be said for the gear you wear huh? Glad you're (relatively) okay... Sam (yeah, still alive, but no big bike yet, so I've been keeping quiet.) happened the other week... yeah long time no hear brother. i would offer to come and pick you up but alas not any more.

[R-Soul]

So what happened? The bike looks like it took some impact and rolled over a bit - no mere slide...

Any lessons to be learnt here for us? (Besides ATGATT again). I was considering a back protector as a "maybe" before- but now I think it has been upgraded to "geddit".

[fizbin]

don't get tagged from behind!
i don't remember alot about the bin. one minute i was riding along all quite like. (a change for me!) next i felt a bump wasn't even a massive contact and i am sliding on my back down the road.
one thing that did sick in my mind though which i think is funny now. is mark telling us in a lesson one day to steer with your hands. strange the things you remember

[shah]

sorry to hear about the mishap, Steve. get well soon.

[MarkH]

don't get tagged from behind!

So, don't take it easy, ride faster? Yeah, I already do that.

That really sucks man, what kind of incompetent driver would just run up the back of another vehicle while it is cruising along? The guy must have been drunk or asleep or just a fuckin' idiot!

[R-Soul]

So, don't take it easy, ride faster? Yeah, I already do that.

That really sucks man, what kind of incompetent driver would just run up the back of another vehicle while it is cruising along? The guy must have been drunk or asleep or just a fuckin' idiot!

Did the driver stop?

You would be surprised at what kind of driver would do that. In Pretoria, I was stopped at a red light on my cousins bike - an old BMW 800GS. It had just turned red, but the cars going across had already started pullng off - so it was real late.
I heard car tyres screeching behind me and braced myself - no time to even look around. It was on quite a steep uphill as well. The next thing a car just belts the bike out from under me and then smacks me in the back when I fell down. Luckily the bike took all the energy - but my back was sore for a few weeks after (no back protector).
It was a stupid teenage chick.

But I checked the day after- the skid marks were 35 meters long. I paced them out. She must have been flying- prolly on a cellphone... bitch...

[Big Dog]

So what happened? The bike looks like it took some impact and rolled over a bit - no mere slide...

Any lessons to be learnt here for us? (Besides ATGATT again). I was considering a back protector as a "maybe" before- but now I think it has been upgraded to "geddit".

They can be had for under a hundy if you shop around.
The pricier ones might protect better at 140 plus but are no better at low speed (in general terms) They do tent to be really comfortable.

I paid $99 Retail for my 661 that I only really bother with on spirited rides or in one of my jackets that does not already have a good back protector.

Supplementary back protectors are always better than the ones built in o jackets but it is about finding the right balance between actually wearing ATGATT and just saying you do which is what tends to happen if your go too over the top. I ride almost everywhere I go, so I have options. If you only ride somtimes your risk is greater and you have less practicalities to take into account so there are no excuses.

A cheap back protector costs less than:
3 tanks of gas in the 'busa.
10% of an aftermarket pipe.
Heated grips.
One latte every working day of a month.
A bike specific Backpack
A pair of designer jeans.
Or
A day off work at minimum wage.

[Big Dog]

So, don't take it easy, ride faster? Yeah, I already do that.

That really sucks man, what kind of incompetent driver would just run up the back of another vehicle while it is cruising along? The guy must have been drunk or asleep or just a fuckin' idiot!

Unfortunately not an uncommon type of accident in NZ.

Our resident sheeple have worked really long and hard to make sure cagers don't have to thing behind the wheel.

I think of it like this.
Straight road policy by transit New Zealand = a
Low Speed policy by NZ police = b
Safer Vehicles program by Transit New Zealand = c
No Personal liability by ACC = d
Lack of resoponsible behavior being the public perception (and sometimes the truth) about bikers = e
Population growth courtesy of importing more drivers than we are exporting. = f
Parents now spend less time with their kids teaching them life lessons. = g
Various agencies place greater emphasis on saving lives of car drivers even if it is at the expense of rider safety ( eg Rope barriers). = h

a x b x c x d x e x f x g x h = I am exposed to far greater risks every year than I was the year before.

This is reality.
This is not going to change.

However this is my religion.
This is my cultural identity.
I will not surrender, I will don the best armour I can muster for the situation and I will continue to ride, ride with my primary armour being an open and clear mind that is trained in how to read the situation and how to manage emergency manouvers on any bike I ride.

[p.dath]

What should we do at the car park tonight?

We haven't done emergency braking, or brake and escape for a long time?

I think there would be some benefit at practising counter steering at 40 to 50km/h around the corners in the car park as well. There are a few people having trouble cornering on the normal ride at the moment.

[MarkH]

Unfortunately not an uncommon type of accident in NZ.

It is because there is no shortage of fuckin' idiots! In fact we have such a surplus we often ship our excess to Aussie. Not that they have a shortage either. In fact there is a worldwide surplus.

[zealchick]

What should we do at the car park tonight?

We haven't done emergency braking, or brake and escape for a long time?

I think there would be some benefit at practising counter steering at 40 to 50km/h around the corners in the car park as well. There are a few people having trouble cornering on the normal ride at the moment.

Dam i wish i could be there tonight! this would have been so help full. Hope you guys have a great training night tonight

[thehovel]

don't get tagged from behind!
i don't remember alot about the bin. one minute i was riding along all quite like. (a change for me!) next i felt a bump wasn't even a massive contact and i am sliding on my back down the road.
one thing that did sick in my mind though which i think is funny now. is mark telling us in a lesson one day to steer with your hands. strange the things you remember

Just a little shot as I trundle off on me Southern Tour.
ONE DAY YOU WILL GET TO TRADE IN A BIKE ON THE NEXT ONE not an insurance claim or are at a better money???????? Regards Richard

[fizbin]

Just a little shot as I trundle off on me Southern Tour.
ONE DAY YOU WILL GET TO TRADE IN A BIKE ON THE NEXT ONE not an insurance claim or are at a better money???????? Regards Richard

ASS!
(apparently Ass is to short of a message so i had to write this to be able to post it... your still an ass thou!)

[Big Dog]

For those of you who missed it on the ride tonight. I spoke to Todd and then the boss man at cycle treads. We have organised for participants who want to take fizbins experience as a warning to be able to get a discount of 15% on Oxford Brand back protectors (Their prices are already below RRP).

To get your discount you will need to seek out Todd / Toto at Cycletreads before Easter.
You may also like to purvey their other fine merchandise or try their new coffee offering and join their customer loyalty program.

The oxford brand is quite a good one and rates really highly in most tests.

[fizbin]

For those of you who missed it on the ride tonight. I spoke to Todd and then the boss man at cycle treads. We have organised for participants who want to take fizbins experience as a warning to be able to get a discount of 15% on Oxford Brand back protectors (Their prices are already below RRP).

To get your discount you will need to seek out Todd / Toto at Cycletreads before Easter.
You may also like to purvey their other fine merchandise or try their new coffee offering and join their customer loyalty program.

The oxford brand is quite a good one and rates really highly in most tests.

I will say this. if i had not been wearing my back protector i would be in holspital or worse at the mo. they are good value. i dont know how long this offer is valid for but next wednesday i will be coming to the car park to say hello to you all (in the cage!:weep:) i iwill bring what remains of my gear along for everyone to have a look at.
i will also talk to everyone about it and answer any question anyone has on inciidents like this.
i sure Big Dog and alike will have thier input as well.
Steve

[R-Soul]

Dam i wish i could be there tonight! this would have been so help full. Hope you guys have a great training night tonight
Iif you want to see some awesome counter steering around a car park, go to youtube and type in "Japanese motorcycle cops demonstrration". Fuck me those guys can handle a bike... just looking at it is pretty instructive as well- because I never realised that those kind of manouvers were even possible at such low speed. It puts a whole new perspective on low speed riding and manouverability...


Pity I could not make it this time- no more brownie points - next week for sure...

[Ironclaw]

i iwill bring what remains of my gear along for everyone to have a look at.
i will also talk to everyone about it and answer any question anyone has on inciidents like this.


That would be very helpful fizbin as I have the same jacket! would be great to see how it held up (or not) and the rest of your gear.
Was looking at back protectors wondering if they are more for the 'hardcore' riders but looks like I'll now be getting one for sure!

p.s. seems like there drips/holes in the lower part of the jacket - did it melt?

[TOTO]

Bosdo has said we can do 15% off the oxford back protectors till easter. I for one never get on a bike without a back protector. It is like a safety belt in a car - you dont put it because you WILL have an accident, but because you might. You can ask for me or if I'm not around Brad or Craig will be able to do you the same deal.

Fizzy I'm really glad you are with us bro. Drink of choice for you on wednesday to heal your suffering.

[fizbin]

just a beer will do. i have been drinking away my sorrows enough for a while.

[accident]

just a beer will do. i have been drinking away my sorrows enough for a while.

Good to here you are ok and you ass is on the mend.
Have you bought a bike yet?

[TOTO]

GN250 - these things are unbrakable !

[Clean_up]

Fizzy, glad you ok, sad about the bike!!!!
Hope the person who hit ya stopped and helped you.
Glad you on the mend, take it easy for a while.
Hope to catch up with everyone next week, cant make it this week.....but got a wee surprise when i turn up next week ;)

[p.dath]

I think I'll skip the ride tomorrow. I've got my wiring harness and rear part of my bike in lots of tiny pieces at the moment. So I think I'll put it all back together tomorrow after work, which I'm certain will mean I'll miss the ride.

However I think I'll try and pick up some tennis balls, and aim to be at the car park at 7:30pm (read the first post again people). I think the NASS sessions have become far to lob-sided, in that the session is now 90% to 100% ride, and no car park practical learning. The rides simply are not making it to the car park anywhere near 7:30pm, and those that just turn up at the car park are now leaving. We are effectively driving people away who would like to learn.

I also wonder if it might be an idea to get riders to pair up, and have the rider behind tell the rider in front what they observed. This would also encourage the group to stay within range of each other. Call it self mentoring if you like. Some things are easy to watch for. Is the rider looking through the corner [good], or watching the ground. Are they entering the corner from the outside [correct], or the inside. Are they braking or closing the throttle in the middle of the corner [bad].
I suspect if you can learn enough to identify to the rider in front what they did/didn't do well, you can probably do the same to your own riding when away from the group.

So unless someone with more experience steps up for tomorrow (24/3/2010), I'd like to do 1 or 2 of the following:

Counter-steering practice - I think about 4 people in the group really need some dedicated practice on it, and its good for everyone.
Tight low speed turning - as in, trying to turn at maximum lock.
Emergency braking. This one is always a little dangerous to practice, as there is an increased risk of someone having a low speed off. But it is something that everyone needs to practice - even if you've done it 100 times before.

If 2 people help, then we can do two of these at the same time. Otherwise setting up a course but having no one to watch the people go through it is of limited value.


The only slight snag I have is that a friend of mine is out from Australia at the moment, and I haven't seen them in about 3 or 4 years, and I would also like to catch up with them. And I have been sick for the last 3 days. Will do another post tomorrow confirming my intentions.

[TOTO]

Ok seeing that I'll probably be late for the gassy anyway, I'll come keep you company at the car park. I'll be at the car park at about 6:30 onwards. I'll bring my half tennis balls and we can do plenty of drills. :ride:

[p.dath]

Ok seeing that I'll probably be late for the gassy anyway, I'll come keep you company at the car park. I'll be at the car park at about 6:30 onwards. I'll bring my half tennis balls and we can do plenty of drills. :ride:

Thanks. I don't think I'll have the bike back together by then, but will aim for 7:30 pm still. Will come earlier if time permits.

[Ironclaw]

Sweet! I'd be keen for some gymkhana before the group turns up toto!

[ESXB0Y]

I was thinking of tagging along to sharpen my skills (or give me some skill!) and the all-important feedback on where I'm being a muppet, but would be dead keen to see some gymkhana skills being cracked out!

[TOTO]

cool, i'll bring the sparkies too :p

[Clean_up]

hehe suprise will be there :) see you all at the gassy soon :)

[p.dath]

I'm heading off to the Albany car park soon. See you there.

[imw-hornet]

Well chaps , I have just got out of hospital after an opp on the knee so will be out of action for a few weeks , so enjoy and keep it safe ,,,,, and rember to always have fun

[retro asian]

That was good gymkhana practice, big thanks to the guys who obviously spent a lot of time setting that one up!

[TOTO]

Well chaps , I have just got out of hospital after an opp on the knee so will be out of action for a few weeks , so enjoy and keep it safe ,,,,, and rember to always have fun

Looking forward to seeing you soon Ian. Get well soon Bud :)


That was good gymkhana practice, big thanks to the guys who obviously spent a lot of time setting that one up!

Pleasure. And, thanks to everyone who helped me with my balls :)

[Squiggles]

Photo #6 one dead bike

So.... trackbike?

[TOTO]

So.... trackbike?

You should know better man - its a Suzuki. Snapped the frame.

[BMCruiser]

hey p.dath, thanks for your comments about the way the NASS format has changed. I enjoyed it last year when things got started at Albany around 7.30 and we had a good amount of time for some instruction and practice. I've only been able to get along a few times this year but I have noticed the difference. Last week I arrived at 7.30 at Albany and waited until 8.15 and then left when the main group had not arrived. It was nice to chat to the 3 or 4 others who were also waiting but it was too cold to just wait around. Someone else who was waiting said it had been much the same the week prior. This week I didn't go because I thought it would probably be the same again.

[Sharry]

And, thanks to everyone who helped me with my balls :)

It was a pleasure sir. Though I have to say, TOTO, your balls were not as hairy as I thought they would be:p

[TOTO]

We live in 21st century honey....the age of metrosexuality ;)

[Sharry]

We live in 21st century honey....the age of metrosexuality ;)

I take it that you now use veet?

[TOTO]

hey p.dath, thanks for your comments about the way the NASS format has changed. I enjoyed it last year when things got started at Albany around 7.30 and we had a good amount of time for some instruction and practice. I've only been able to get along a few times this year but I have noticed the difference. Last week I arrived at 7.30 at Albany and waited until 8.15 and then left when the main group had not arrived. It was nice to chat to the 3 or 4 others who were also waiting but it was too cold to just wait around. Someone else who was waiting said it had been much the same the week prior. This week I didn't go because I thought it would probably be the same again.

Well you also gotta appreciate that the start of the ride is supposed to be at westgate, and thats the main group. so if the day looks nice enough for a fun ride then we might go for a ride. We are having a vote on things like that. If for example there is half and half in favor of longer ride and a shorter ride, then we just split in two groups. what happened the past two weeks is that the weather was supreme and everyone was in favor of a wee ride. the fact that we were late was die to one rider having a blow bulb and the rest were kind enough to wait for him. If you check the thread on the day you will see what everyone's intentions are. Today for example we had people in the car park from 6:30 and started drills from 7 and the main group showed up after that. All that was posted up in the thread.

Big Thanks to all who turned up and took advantage of the course. It was a real pleasure seeing people getting the hang of it lap after lap. Gotta do it more often :)

[TOTO]

I take it that you now use veet?

Not really a fan of it eh...:doctor:

[Sharry]

Not really a fan of it eh...:doctor:

I'm not fussy how you do it good man, I simply appreciate nice balls that stay where they are put and are not too hairy:yes:

[TOTO]

I'm not fussy how you do it good man, I simply appreciate nice balls that stay where they are put and are not too hairy:yes:

Thanks ;)

_______________

[MarkH]

It was a pleasure sir. Though I have to say, TOTO, your balls were not as hairy as I thought they would be:p

That reminds me of a T-Shirt I bought a while ago:
http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/i-shaved-my-balls-for-this

[Sharry]

Thanks for the gymkhana tonight, nicley laid out and fun to ride around. It doesnt matter how long we have been riding it is always fun and useful to brush up on the small skills.

[Ironclaw]

Thanks for a great night guys and gals, playing with TOTO's balls was fun! See you next week! Any ideas as to what is instore for next week? maybe a BIGGER gymkhana? :yes: please post your ideas.

[p.dath]

hey p.dath, thanks for your comments about the way the NASS format has changed. I enjoyed it last year when things got started at Albany around 7.30 and we had a good amount of time for some instruction and practice. I've only been able to get along a few times this year but I have noticed the difference. Last week I arrived at 7.30 at Albany and waited until 8.15 and then left when the main group had not arrived. It was nice to chat to the 3 or 4 others who were also waiting but it was too cold to just wait around. Someone else who was waiting said it had been much the same the week prior. This week I didn't go because I thought it would probably be the same again.

We have a few of the normal mentors away at the moment, and it felt we were starting to loose our way. Complaining is easy, but doing something about it is a different story. I chose approach number 2.

But as it turned out, we had lots and lots of people to turn up, and Toto put in a huge effort making the course. So thanks Toto, and to everyone else for making in a great night!

[BMCruiser]

I apologise if my last post seemed to be complaining, that certainly wasn't my intention. However I feel it's better to provide some feedback rather than just be a disgruntled ex attendee. I appreciate that the mentors who come along to pass on their knowledge and skills do so on a voluntary basis and I'm very grateful for that. It's a big commitment to be there every week. On the 17th I did actually check the thread before I left home, but there was nothing to indicate that anything would be different to the standard times. The others who were also waiting were getting a little impatient as well and someone left before I did. It sounds like last night was better organised, sorry I didn't come along.

[Sharry]

All is good, see you there next week eh? Will you meet us at Westgate or the carpark?