^ Clearly doesn't have kids
(to be fair, neither do I but I've had to look after a few)
Hardcore Biker
^ Clearly doesn't have kids
(to be fair, neither do I but I've had to look after a few)
Anorak
If you had kids you would know that they ask you to provide immunisation certificates prior to their enrollment.Originally Posted by Katman
public Schools cant decline soley based vaccinations but they only have so much space on their rolls
Lots of daycare and preschools wont enroll a child without Vaccinations.
It still doesnt explain your Rhetoric about how no nazi would tell you what to do about vaccination and then you immediately caving to the dog kennel and Vaccinating your dog when they told you you had to
Hypocrite much.
Yet
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Forum whore
Not at all. I could have chosen not to leave my dog at the kennels if I'd preferred.
Besides, dealing with an autistic dog would be less of a burden than an autistic child.
Anorak
So you pricipals relating to vaccination are only dependent on convenience to you and you far fetched belief that have no scientific support or basis about a easily discredited fraudulent link to autism
It almost sounds like they are religious beliefs than a moral stand
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Anorak
So you pricipals relating to vaccination are only dependent on convenience to you and you far fetched belief that have no scientific support or basis
It almost sounds like they are religious beliefs than a moral stand
Yet
Sticking it to the man (but only When convenient)
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Forum whore
The kennels demanding that the animal is vaccinated does not equal mandatory vaccination.
I can chose to not use the services of the kennels.
Mandatory vaccination means vaccination whether you like it or not.
Can you see the difference?
Anorak
I can see the difference you state you strongly believe in one thing and that no ones going to force you to vaccinate anything but go and do the total opposite as its more convenient.
Yet
Sticking it to the man (but only When convenient)
Such high held principals you have. They match the children you also don't have rather nicely.
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Nope it's not.
Vaccination doesn't guarantee you'll never get the disease either.
There are no guarantees in biology.
In developed countries deaths from measles etc did drop before vaccinations. That was because of better health and nutrition. Specifically people who are well nurished and generally healthy are much more able to fight of diseases.
INFECTION rates didn't drop until the vaccines were introduced.
In third world countries people aren't well nurished, so when they get infected, they are much more likely to die. It's easier and cheaper to give vaccines than to change the farming methods and climate in a developing country. That's why you see death rates drop once vaccinations are used.
(Are you keeping up? The next bit requires empathy and understanding, but I have faith in you Katman. You wouldn't be in this conversation if you weren't interested)
In developed countries kids USUALLY don't die from diseases like measles. They are healthy and strong to begin with and have access to effective medical treatments. MOST kids would be fine.
BUT for many reasons some kids aren't that strong. It might be a specific weakness to a particular disease. It might be a more global (affecting their whole body, not the whole world, you knew that!) disability. It might be on account of surgery resulting in immunosuppressive medicine (a bit like magically switching off your immune system).
These kids stand a very real chance of dying from diseases the rest of us would just shrug off. And they can't be vaccinated, because they don't have an immune system to strengthen.
We protect them by getting everyone else vaccinated.
Small pox was eradicated because we vaccinated everyone we could against it. That's what happens when you get everyone vaccinated.
There is no one getting sick from that disease.
It can't reproduce.
It's gone.
For everyone.
For ever.
Shit works.
Now talking about human rights.
Everyone has an inherent right to life?
Yes they do. EVERYONE.
Not just the sanctimonious middle class in developed countries who are worried about little Sebastian being pricked.
EVERYONE.
The only way everyone gets to enjoy their own right to life, is if we do our best to protect EVERYONE.
The only way to protect the weakest members of our communities is to vaccinate, help the third world vaccinate and wipe out these diseases.
Obvious arguments you might make...
1 Yes there are sometimes bad reactions to vaccines and it is heart breaking. They are very rare and big pharma does actually conduct large scale tests and withdraw products from sale when there are problems.
Yes big pharma are cunts, but they do get sued over this stuff. Thanks in part to people like you scrutinising everything to do with vaccines. We should keep up the scrutinising...
2 moral right to choose. This would be a valid argument if your actions had no effect on others. It does. Go back to the bit about disabled kids. Also the bit about badly nurished poor kids.
Allowing the disease to reproduce is what keeps it alive.
3 strengthening/ weakening immune systems. Your immune system recognises viruses and bacteria and attacks them. A vaccine had the same outward appearance as a live virus/bacteria. But the inside is switched off. It teaches your immune system to recognise that germ, so that next time a gem with the same outward appearance attacks your body, the immune system recognises it and can react more quickly.
The effect on your immune system is exactly the same, whether it first comes into contact with a germ or the vaccine. It's just that with the vaccine you don't get any symptoms.
4 autism.
It's just an unfortunate coincidence that the symptoms of autism only appear at about the same time as the MMR vaccine is given. There is no causal link. Actually there are loads of autistic people from previous generations, when vaccines weren't so common. They are often found being very successful in engineering, architecture, law and science. Anywhere that rewards being very, very precise and involves minimal team work. The whole autism epidemic thing is a bit of a red herring I'm afraid.
Really Katman. This isn't about you being able to choose what feels right for you. I'm in favour of people's right to choose for themselves in as many aspects of their lives as possible. Big governments and big companies are blights on our society.
But this isn't the battle to fight. Winning this battle means killing babies. We just need to write out these diseases.
Ps for the record, I'm also a parent. I don't really think that matters in this debate really though, as my girls are totally middle class and would probably be fine anyway...
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Bogeyman
Since when are the two mutually exclusive? I'd bet long odds on a study finding a tolerably high degree of correlation between the two.
Not sure if we can, or should extend your somewhat.... unlikely charity to an assumption there's an actual causation re stupidity -> malice though.
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon
Ooops forgot one obvious argument...
5 show me some evidence...
We'll I showed you this back in October and it kept you quiet for a couple of months.
Well written, accessible article with lots of links to evidence for everything she says.
Reliable evidence from reputable sources...
https://www.iflscience.com/health-an...re-being-lied/
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Forum whore
Well it would certainly be interesting to compare the number of children who can't be vaccinated due to the reasons you've listed with the number who suffer a permanent disability after receiving a vaccine.BUT for many reasons some kids aren't that strong. It might be a specific weakness to a particular disease. It might be a more global (affecting their whole body, not the whole world, you knew that!
These kids stand a very real chance of dying from diseases the rest of us would just shrug off. And they can't be vaccinated, because they don't have an immune system to strengthen.
Or they might instead choose to ship the remaining stock off to a Third World country.
Anorak
Why not compare the differnce in the oners that are vaccinated vs the ones that are.
For each million kids 9300 more un vaccinated kids that develop measles have seizures
And only 1999 More that get potential brain damaging encephalitis.
But what the hey its other peoples childrens lives you are talking about
Vs 4 that suffer an allergic reaction and the 1/ million that die
ps no reply aye just the normal abusive rep
I can see the difference you state you strongly believe in one thing and that no ones going to force you to vaccinate anything but go and do the total opposite as its more convenient.
Yet
Sticking it to the man (but only When convenient)
Such high held principals you have. They match the children you also don't have rather nicely.
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Here you are.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25831421/
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Forum whore
What has that article got to do with comparing the number of children who can't be vaccinated with the number who suffer disabilities after being vaccinated?
All, you can follow the link to the whole paper, which also has references, but the summary there is pretty detailed.
I believe you've been accepting a figure of 88 children a year having reactions to vaccinations right?
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