Trump - 4 more years of this at least... [Archive] - Page 10

R650R

18th January 2021, 08:52

Somehow I don't think Trump will write a gracious letter like Bush 41 did. It is still being reported that he is flying out on Air Force 1. OK, AF1 is just a call sign, but you'd think that the entire Presidential flight should be available, cleaned, and fueled by noon, ready for use by the President if required.

It's not like he's Bill Clinton, there won't be any stains on the upholstery or the staff lol
They do have two of them anyway...
Don't think basement Biden will travel much anyway....

Meanwhile seems there was a Mark Lundy aspect to the riot.... Trump supporters could not have physically been at his rally and made it inside the building in the given timeline, looking all refreshed for there photo ops....

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hWg-j5V8f5U/YAJCuZIjaoI/AAAAAAAEQZ0/KaUzHErBKCwjPGzIdVNywIygDKCtZ58ogCNcBGAsYHQ/s1653/CAPITAL%2BSTORMING%2BHOAX%2B%252834%2529.JPG

pritch

18th January 2021, 09:46

It's not like he's Bill Clinton, there won't be any stains on the upholstery or the staff lol

Except for the stain he allegedly left on a dress and for which he will not provide a DNA sample to prove his innocence. Funny that.

Actually he probably isn't leaving much of anything, he and his grifting crime family are probably stealing the White House sliver. Seriously, somebody should be doing an inventory check of all the artwork.

Biden will be busy at home fixing Trump's fuck ups for a while, but there are bridges to repair internationally too. At least Air Force 1 will not be used every week for golf trips.

Trump is planning on retiring to Mar A Largo which he is not legally entiltled to do. I'd love to see the local government hand him the arse card. It has been suggested he buy another property to use as a residence, but he may not be able to afford that. He milked millions from his sucker supporters to fund his "legal fight" but that won't help much when his debts are hundreds of billions.

Anyhoo it's likely that in a week or two there will begin an avalanche of news about shonky shit that he's been up to but is no longer able to keep secret.

pritch

18th January 2021, 17:49

Trump is to announce 100 pardons Tuesday. The New York Times report Giuliani and Kushner have been selling pardons. At up to $2 million a time, a nice little earner.

Some people, even Trump's former lawyer Michael Cohen, are shocked. Nobody should really be surprised, with Trump everthing is a grift.

sugilite

18th January 2021, 18:11

It's not like he's Bill Clinton, there won't be any stains on the upholstery or the staff lol
Apart from the orange stains on the toilet seat, bed sheets, upholstery and then there is all the nappy buckets Melanoma refused to take out for him:sick:

I see Trump wanted a milatary send off other presidents have enjoyed since the regan era, but the Pentagon declined!
What a missed opportunity, Trump wanted to bring back firing squads. They could of blindfolded him, stood him on a plastic sheet and given him a 21 gun salute. :laugh:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-donald-trumps-request-for-huge-military-style-farewell-parade-rejected-by-the-pentagon/Y4VTJFQJTGJ36JZTNY47NZC2CY/

pete376403

18th January 2021, 18:44

It's not like he's Bill Clinton, there won't be any stains on the upholstery or the staff lol
They do have two of them anyway...
Don't think basement Biden will travel much anyway....

Meanwhile seems there was a Mark Lundy aspect to the riot.... Trump supporters could not have physically been at his rally and made it inside the building in the given timeline, looking all refreshed for there photo ops....

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hWg-j5V8f5U/YAJCuZIjaoI/AAAAAAAEQZ0/KaUzHErBKCwjPGzIdVNywIygDKCtZ58ogCNcBGAsYHQ/s1653/CAPITAL%2BSTORMING%2BHOAX%2B%252834%2529.JPG

Watch their own videos from Parler - they seemed to get to the Capitol quickly enough

https://projects.propublica.org/parler-capitol-videos/?fbclid=IwAR0a4AHIyJtm70QpBPRjQ-GUZHJcn7WMnfXV03o3IZZizoHnqWYQBlMKON4

ellipsis

18th January 2021, 22:19

.

Some you will have that inpentatrable invicible cloke ready for furture US President Joe Biden.

...priceless...

Berries

18th January 2021, 22:51

...priceless...
And perhaps a little bit inpentatrable?

US was spelt right so there is hope yet.

pritch

19th January 2021, 08:03

Entertaining little snippets appearing in social media. One guy boasted that he'd been interviewed by the FBI but that he'd "aced it". He may be reevaluating that. He's been arrested on multiple federal charges.

There was a woman shown on video in Congress exhorting the crowd to go up the stairs. A former romantic partner has told the feds that the woman stole a laptop out of Nancy Pelosi's office and had tried to sell it to the Russians.

The concerns about an "insider" attack on the inauguration must be credible. The FBI have now investigated the background of each of the troops present three times. How you investigate 25,000 guys three times in a few days was not stated. Given that the soldiery of a nation is a reflection of that nation's society, it's a given that there will be Klan, assorted militias, Q Anon followers, and other fuckwits in the ranks.

It might be wise to have Kamala Harris take her oath frist and stay some distance from the inauguration?

mashman

19th January 2021, 09:30

Trump will be at the inauguration tomorrow. He will walk up to the mic and tell everyone there that they are surrounded and under arrest :laugh:

TheDemonLord

19th January 2021, 09:34

The concerns about an "insider" attack on the inauguration must be credible. The FBI have now investigated the background of each of the troops present three times. How you investigate 25,000 guys three times in a few days was not stated. Given that the soldiery of a nation is a reflection of that nation's society, it's a given that there will be Klan, assorted militias, Q Anon followers, and other fuckwits in the ranks.

All I'm going to point out is:

Are these the actions of a democratically elected president, though a free and fair election or are these the actions of a Dictator who is worried that the people will turn against them.

sugilite

19th January 2021, 10:19

All I'm going to point out is:

Are these the actions of a democratically elected president, though a free and fair election or are these the actions of a Dictator who is worried that the people will turn against them.

These protocols have been put in place by the authorities as the maga mob (essentially highlighted by yourself previously) are not smart enough to pick up on the word "peaceful" in their dear leaders very long speech, thus cannot be trusted to behave themselves.

TheDemonLord

19th January 2021, 10:26

These protocols have been put in place by the authorities as the maga mob (essentially highlighted by yourself previously) are not smart enough to pick up on the word "peaceful" in their dear leaders very long speech, thus cannot be trusted to behave themselves.

But surely, as the most overwhelmingly popular Presidential candidate of all time.... They shouldn't have this concern.... Unless of course they had a guilty conscious about the legitimacy of the result....

However even that isn't as funny as then they got concerned that about being overthrown by the US Military they themselves called in to protect then from MAGA, Are they worried that Trump is going to walk in like Napoleon?

It really does betray how 'confident' they aren't about the Election result.

Then it gets even more hilarious - that they are worried about Congressmen and Congresswomen exercising their 2A rights...

"We need to protect ourselves from the Angry Mob! Quick get people in with Guns!"
"But what if the people with Guns don't like us?"
"We need to protect ourselves from the People with Guns we asked to come! Quick! Take their Guns!"

And finally - when Trump offered to send in the National Guard to help certain states with certain 'Peaceful protests' - he was compared to various military dictators, and yet when the Democrats actually bring in the NG - it's legitimate Protocols...

The level of Hypocrisy, even if you account for the dislike of Trump/Maga is astounding.

sugilite

19th January 2021, 10:37

usual wall of text
Not one sentence in your post negates this "These protocols have been put in place by the authorities as the maga mob (essentially highlighted by yourself previously) are not smart enough to pick up on the word "peaceful" in their dear leaders very long speech, thus cannot be trusted to behave themselves. "

You are just coming across as a butt hurt maga loony now. Time to go and stand in the conspiracy circle with Rudi, Powell and bonez.

TheDemonLord

19th January 2021, 10:52

Not one sentence in your post negates this "These protocols have been put in place by the authorities as the maga mob (essentially highlighted by yourself previously) are not smart enough to pick up on the word "peaceful" in their dear leaders very long speech, thus cannot be trusted to behave themselves. "

You are just coming across as a butt hurt maga loony now. Time to go and stand in the conspiracy circle with Rudi, Powell and bonez.

If they had the Legitimacy they claim, then they would not have the fears that they hold.

Further to that, they're every action is the height of hypocrisy. Whether or not the threat is real or imagined.

sugilite

19th January 2021, 11:02

If they had the Legitimacy they claim, then they would not have the fears that they hold.

Further to that, they're every action is the height of hypocrisy. Whether or not the threat is real or imagined.

Sorry mate, you have crossed over to full maga loony now. They have complete legitimacy, 60 failed court cases contesting the result = game over for the stolen election narrative.
With 60 lots of judges from both sides of the divide ruling yeah, nah due to complete lack of proof - if that is not a high enough standard of proof for you nothing ever will be.
A bit sad to see you go full maga loony to be honest :no:

TheDemonLord

19th January 2021, 11:13

Sorry mate, you have crossed over to full maga loony now. They have complete legitimacy, 60 failed court cases contesting the result = game over for the stolen election narrative.
With 60 lots of judges from both sides of the divide ruling yeah, nah due to complete lack of proof - if that is not a high enough standard of proof for you nothing ever will be.
A bit sad to see you go full maga loony to be honest :no:

You miss the point, whether or not I think it was free and fair isn't relevant to this particular point I'm making.

It's whether or not the DNC think they won fair and square, as evidenced by their actions.

And their Actions at the moment are rather telling.

F5 Dave

19th January 2021, 11:40

Sorry, who's actions? Because today is inauguration day. The Republicans are technically still in power are they not?. At least for a few minutes more. So up to this point. . . ? Who's actions?

sugilite

19th January 2021, 11:41

You miss the point, whether or not I think it was free and fair isn't relevant to this particular point I'm making.

It's whether or not the DNC think they won fair and square, as evidenced by their actions.

And their Actions at the moment are rather telling.
If course they know they won fair and square, now they are needing to take steps to protect against the maga loonies who just a week or so ago over ran capital hill congress.
Prudent by any measure.
I do believe these are the most desperate maga loony posts we have yet seen from you.:weird:

TheDemonLord

19th January 2021, 12:13

neels

19th January 2021, 13:42

Hmmmm, so you are saying a legitimate Government needs to protect itself from the People that legitimized it....
Of course not.

They are not protecting themselves from the over 50% of people who voted for a legitimate government, unfortunately some of the less than 50% who voted for the loser are fucking lunatics who need to be prevented from doing dumb shit.

pritch

19th January 2021, 13:48

If course they know they won fair and square, now they are needing to take steps to protect against the maga loonies who just a week or so ago over ran capital hill congress.
Prudent by any measure.
I do believe these are the most desperate maga loony posts we have yet seen from you.:weird:

I've put TDL back on ignore, the delusion has exceeded my toleranace levels. But since you quoted him...

A guy who claims an IQ of 130 but fails to understand that a coup attempt necessitates serious security at the next critical step in the process? Unbelievable.

The FBI have credible information that there is to be an "insider" attack on the inauguration. Unusually stringent measures have been taken to try and prevent that happening.
The security is not there because of the Democrats. It's there because of the brain washed imbeciles who still believe, against all reason, that Trump won.
I'm not sure of their exact procedures, but I'd have Justice Roberts swear Kamala Harris in first, somewhere remote from the inauguration, and keep her well away thereafter.

The Secret Service have not exactly covered themselves in glory in recent years, with episodes of undetected intruders in the White House, drunk management staff crashing a road block during a White House intruder alert, and of less concern, officers hiring prostitutes. Americans do seem excessively interested in what people do in their beds. The Secret Service will need to be on the ball on the 20th.

Update

Biden becomes Prez at noon on the twentieth. When that is in our time is a guess, 6PM Thursday? Looking at the SKY programme the festivities run for something like 28 hours. Waaay more than I'd want to see thanks.

TheDemonLord

19th January 2021, 13:59

I've put TDL back on ignore, the delusion has exceeded my toleranace levels. But since you quoted him...

Are we back to this again?

A guy who claims an IQ of 130 but fails to understand that a coup attempt necessitates serious security at the next critical step in the process? Unbelievable.

What Coup?

Don't get me wrong, what the Protestors did was wrong - but to call it a Coup is over-egging the pudding especially given the standards of describing political unrest of late.

TheDemonLord

19th January 2021, 14:07

Of course not.

They are not protecting themselves from the over 50% of people who voted for a legitimate government, unfortunately some of the less than 50% who voted for the loser are fucking lunatics who need to be prevented from doing dumb shit.

Right... So you have this historically unprecedented Majority (supposedly), but you are worried that you and your voterbase will be ousted, by force by less than 50% of the population.

And this Paranoia extends so deeply that after you call in the Military to protect you, you then disarm them because you are worried that they might turn on you.

Really selling me on the confidence that they believe they won fairly.

pritch

19th January 2021, 14:54

neels

19th January 2021, 15:17

Right... So you have this historically unprecedented Majority (supposedly), but you are worried that you and your voterbase will be ousted, by force by less than 50% of the population.

No, not worried that they will be ousted, worried that some Trump supporting nutter will do something spectacularly stupid. The nutters are not enough in number to overthrow the government, but as demonstrated when they stormed the capital building (and then didn't know what to do once they succeeded) people can end up dead so precautions have been put in place to prevent this.

Really selling me on the confidence that they believe they won fairly.

They believe they won fairly, they also believe that there are some seriously deranged people who will hold on to their delusion that they didn't, and those people have already demonstrated their capacity for violence.

FJRider

19th January 2021, 15:39

What Coup?

Don't get me wrong, what the Protestors did was wrong - but to call it a Coup is over-egging the pudding especially given the standards of describing political unrest of late.

Coup definition:

an instance of successfully achieving something difficult. ... "it was a major coup to get such a prestigious contract"

or ...

a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

In the first example ... was anything [difficult ??] successfully achieved ???

And I think to describe it as a "Seizure of power" would be an exaggeration.

R650R

19th January 2021, 16:10

The concerns about an "insider" attack on the inauguration must be credible. The FBI have now investigated the background of each of the troops present three times. How you investigate 25,000 guys three times in a few days was not stated. ?

Well let's just say the Person of Interest to show was more a doco than sci fi.... the powers that be have VERY sophisticated AI systems that at the very least rapidly narrow down the list of likely suspects to st best prob actually parallel the powers in the show.
People u der stand targeted advertising on google via their searches and social media posts, it's a very small step to use same data for other purposes.

NZ police have had similar tools since the allegedly " failed" InCIS system but don't have the budget or staffing that a large nation was to sift the data in timely matter. The reason they keep the illusion of failure is it would be politically difficult to suddenly be able to solve all crimes, we just don't have the prison or court infrastructure to deal with...
And we all know the govt loves us to fear crime as it stops us realising how much the govt steals from us....

I

The FBI have credible information that there is to be an "insider" attack on the inauguration. Unusually stringent measures have been taken to try and prevent that happening.
.

Well the FBI usually run the patsies involved in half these shenanigans....

R650R

19th January 2021, 16:23

Breaking News Democrats hand power back to Trump....

Today president Biden made a broadcast from his basement. He said winning the election and having media call Trump a loser didn't sit well with their party ideals.
He has decided that all that matters is that Trump participated in the election.
To that effect he announced Kamala, himself, pence and Trump will joint,y participate in a joint panel running America and they will rename themselves Participants of America.
Biden said he thought of the idea after a phone call from NZ where Adern said she had power with a minority govt under the MMP scheme in her previous term.
There is also talk of renaming the country to the United States of Participation.

Kickaha

19th January 2021, 16:38

All I'm going to point out is:

Are these the actions of a democratically elected president, though a free and fair election or are these the actions of a Dictator who is worried that the people will turn against them.

Are you really that fucking stupid ?

Hmmmm, so you are saying a legitimate Government needs to protect itself from the People that legitimized it....

Well you just answered my question with a resounding YES

F5 Dave

19th January 2021, 17:25

But surely, as the most overwhelmingly popular Presidential candidate of all time.... They shouldn't have this concern.... Unless of course they had a guilty conscious about the legitimacy of the result....

However even that isn't as funny as then they got concerned that about being overthrown by the US Military they themselves called in to protect then from MAGA, Are they worried that Trump is going to walk in like Napoleon?

It really does betray how 'confident' they aren't about the Election result.

Then it gets even more hilarious - that they are worried about Congressmen and Congresswomen exercising their 2A rights...

"We need to protect ourselves from the Angry Mob! Quick get people in with Guns!"
"But what if the people with Guns don't like us?"
"We need to protect ourselves from the People with Guns we asked to come! Quick! Take their Guns!"

And finally - when Trump offered to send in the National Guard to help certain states with certain 'Peaceful protests' - he was compared to various military dictators, and yet when the Democrats actually bring in the NG - it's legitimate Protocols...

The level of Hypocrisy, even if you account for the dislike of Trump/Maga is astounding.
Jesus titty fuking christ . Security was obviously lax before and you only need one nutter but Maga can roust thousands from their ranks, are you seriously suggesting just because Biden whipped Trump at the polls, despite being some old codger, that they should leave the gates open and hope the crazies don't show up again?

Nah you're obviously just doing this for sport. You can't be that stupid and still remember to pay your Internet bill.

Ignore engage.

FJRider

19th January 2021, 19:20

Entertaining little snippets appearing in social media. One guy boasted that he'd been interviewed by the FBI but that he'd "aced it". He may be reevaluating that. He's been arrested on multiple federal charges.

With all such "Interviews" on such matters ... with such "people" ... the people doing the interview will not be the person making the final judgement. Nor will the interviewer reveal/indicate how much they already know about that person. Or indicate that their statements cannot be believed ... otherwise they'll disappear before they can be charged. Letting them think they "Aced it' ... helps them relax and stay in plain sight. And the ones that get "flagged" as suspect will be watched. As will their friends be watched.

There was a woman shown on video in Congress exhorting the crowd to go up the stairs. A former romantic partner has told the feds that the woman stole a laptop out of Nancy Pelosi's office and had tried to sell it to the Russians.

Yep ... the whole venture was carried out by Patriots alright.

The concerns about an "insider" attack on the inauguration must be credible. The FBI have now investigated the background of each of the troops present three times. How you investigate 25,000 guys three times in a few days was not stated. Given that the soldiery of a nation is a reflection of that nation's society, it's a given that there will be Klan, assorted militias, Q Anon followers, and other fuckwits in the ranks.

Background checks on all members of the Units involved ... and members of Units that could be involved in security at some stage ... would have taken place BEFORE the units were brought in.

It might be wise to have Kamala Harris take her oath frist and stay some distance from the inauguration?

I would have thought an "In yer face" occasion for such events would be the go. No backing down. Otherwise that other faction might see it as a win for them ... a faction that is a threat.

husaberg

19th January 2021, 19:20

the populist radical right in particular, has become mainstreamed and normalized,” wrote Dutch political scientist Cas Mudde. “We find it normal that a neo-Nazi party is the third biggest party in a member state
Princeton political philosopher Jan-Werner Müller suggests. “The populist art of governance is based on nationalism (often with racist overtones), on hijacking the state for the ends of partisan loyalists and, less obviously, on weaponizing the economy to secure political power: a combination of culture war, patronage and mass clientelism,”These phenomena are on view, to varying degrees wherever nationalists or self-proclaimed “populists” now hold sway after elections. Immigrants and minorities get bashed and demonized; meanwhile, the leaders’ supporters get repeatedly told they are the authentic representatives of the nation, often to the exclusion of all others. Their opponents are deemed illegitimate and treacherous, guilty of all sorts of corruption, even as backers of the ruling party engage in their own chicanery and graft
“It turns out that, if you want to fight nationalist-populists you can’t treat them like regular politicians,” Indian columnist Mihir Sharma wrote in a piece that puzzled over how so many Indian voters seemed to side with Modi’s agenda over their economic self-interest. “Nor can you assume away unpalatable truths about your fellow voters. You can’t change their votes by appealing to their pocketbooks, or by big economic promises, or by excoriating a populist government’s record, because they will always trust such leaders more than they will you. You can’t change how they vote until you change their minds about what sort of country they want to live in.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/05/29/global-far-right-is-here-stay/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/bill-barr-trump-fraud-election-b1788956.html

Bill Barr told Trump that ‘clownish’ legal team was lying to him about ‘bull***’ voter fraud claims, an axios reports say
This was during a December meeting in the White House that Mr Trump had asked Mr Barr to attend after seeing a story by the Associated Press that quoted Mr Barr as saying "we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have effected a different outcome in the election".

Mr Barr had been one of the most loyal members of Mr Trump’s administration, supporting his executive power at every turn and spinning the release of the Mueller report on Russian interference in the 2016 election in the best way possible for the president. But he would not go so far as to claim that there was widespread voter fraud when he couldn't see the evidence of it.

Despite his loyalty to the president, the relationship between Mr Barr and Mr Trump was silently falling apart, Axios writes. Mr Barr left his post on December 23.

Even Mr Trump's most loyal lieutenants thought that he had got too deep into the conspiracy theories and alternative reality espoused by his legal team led by Mr Trump's personal lawyer and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

FJRider

19th January 2021, 19:56

I posted this before but evidently some people missed it. Fiona Hill was one of the top Russian and European experts in the White House - until she gave evidence against Trump in the first impeachment inquiry. There's a historic sentence, no previous president required a distinction as to which impeachment was being referred to.

The lady knows her stuff. R650R expressed the thought that Trump couldn't stage a coup because he was in power at the time. Wrong. It's not a new idea and it has been done elsewhere more recently too.

Ms Hill knows her stuff.

The thing a coup relies on is in the weight of numbers ... numbers that are desperate for the intended result ... with numbers that know what needs to be done. With the sure knowledge that some of them may die in the process. In history ... they knew that might mean execution if they failed. Most that showed up on this occasion ... were there for the same reasons the protesters turned up during the Springbok tour. To scrap with anybody (in uniform or otherwise) that gets in their way.

I personally think ... that the number of people that might have considered a coup was being attempted ... could be counted on (at best) both hands.

This statement ...

But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a coup attempt. Trump disguised what he was doing by operating in plain sight, talking openly about his intent. He normalized his actions so people would accept them. I’ve been studying authoritarian regimes for three decades, and I know the signs of a coup when I see them.

Well ... truth or not ... I'm not convinced that Trump was clever enough to come up with the plan. If in fact that there WAS a plan.

Nor was he (obviously) clever enough to pull it off. Good help is hard to find ... eh .. !!

Attempted overthrows of the Government by the populace ... is seldom taken lightly.

Whose (with what) move next do you think ... ??

ellipsis

19th January 2021, 20:51

The thing a coup relies on is in the weight of numbers ... numbers that are desperate for the intended result ... with numbers that know what needs to be done. With the sure knowledge that some of them may die in the process. In history ... they knew that might mean execution if they failed. Most that showed up on this occasion ... were there for the same reasons the protesters turned up during the Springbok tour. To scrap with anybody (in uniform or otherwise) that gets in their way.

I personally think ... that the number of people that might have considered a coup was being attempted ... could be counted on (at best) both hands.

This statement ...

Well ... truth or not ... I'm not convinced that Trump was clever enough to come up with the plan. If in fact that there WAS a plan.

Nor was he (obviously) clever enough to pull it off. Good help is hard to find ... eh .. !!

Attempted overthrows of the Government by the populace ... is seldom taken lightly.

Whose (with what) move next do you think ... ??

...as soon as their phones wont work and they don't know where they are, they will all try and find their way home...the incredible journey...

...America is only one of a few powers in the world...just politics, power and corruption and silly people taking sides depending on which way their fucked up ideals lead them...

...why is everyone besotted by what's happening over there when we have our own shit to concentrate on...oops... too late...

pritch

20th January 2021, 07:08

Background checks on all members of the Units involved ... and members of Units that could be involved in security at some stage ... would have taken place BEFORE the units were brought in.

Normally yes. As I said though, there have been three seperate checks now, at least one of which, has taken place since they arrived. Overnight our time, two National Guardsmen were removed because of extremist ties. That tends to indicate information received since they arrived in DC.

Having said that, there is a fine line beween three seperate checks (as per the FBI statement) and one continuous ongoing check.

pritch

20th January 2021, 07:45

The Lincoln Project aren't letting up yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcXiGPdnFz0

I don't know what Randy Rainbow will do now Trump is gone, RR should have been at the inauguration. A generation of comedians will have to find a new source for material.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzXBVkWASI4

TheDemonLord

20th January 2021, 08:34

No, not worried that they will be ousted, worried that some Trump supporting nutter will do something spectacularly stupid. The nutters are not enough in number to overthrow the government,

And that my friends is where the issue is.

The way they are acting, is consistent with a belief that the Number of Nutters ARE enough to Overthrow the Government.

They believe they won fairly, they also believe that there are some seriously deranged people who will hold on to their delusion that they didn't, and those people have already demonstrated their capacity for violence.

A Capacity for Violence?

What businesses were burned down in 'coup'?
My understanding is that all the people killed, were done so by the Police.

Apart from petty Vandalism (which is wrong and they shouldn't have done it) and a couple bits of comical theft, they got in, they didn't know what to do - so got High in the Oregan room (also worth pointing out, again - affinity of Cannabis - one of those hallmark traits of conservatism).

TheDemonLord

20th January 2021, 08:35

And I think to describe it as a "Seizure of power" would be an exaggeration.

100 times, This.

TheDemonLord

20th January 2021, 08:46

Jesus titty fuking christ . Security was obviously lax before and you only need one nutter but Maga can roust thousands from their ranks, are you seriously suggesting just because Biden whipped Trump at the polls, despite being some old codger, that they should leave the gates open and hope the crazies don't show up again?

There's a difference between 'tightening security' and 'deploying an entire Army'.

The latter suggests a real fear that those 'thousands of roused Magas' could successfully overthrow the Government. A Fear that would not exist If you believe you had the majority behind you....

Nah you're obviously just doing this for sport. You can't be that stupid and still remember to pay your Internet bill.

Ignore engage.

I'm constantly amazed by the fact I'm pretty open with the fact I like to argue that some people still seem perplexed by their sudden realization on this.

HenryDorsetCase

20th January 2021, 10:21

And that my friends is where the issue is.

The way they are acting, is consistent with a belief that the Number of Nutters ARE enough to Overthrow the Government.

A Capacity for Violence?

What businesses were burned down in 'coup'?
My understanding is that all the people killed, were done so by the Police.

Apart from petty Vandalism (which is wrong and they shouldn't have done it) and a couple bits of comical theft, they got in, they didn't know what to do - so got High in the Oregan room (also worth pointing out, again - affinity of Cannabis - one of those hallmark traits of conservatism).

You cunt. You lying cunt.

You know as well as we do that at least one of the people who died was a cop.

Fuck you for making me re-engage after I swore I wouldnt. Thats it though.

And finally, my parting thought: fuck you.

TheDemonLord

20th January 2021, 10:36

You cunt. You lying cunt.

You know as well as we do that at least one of the people who died was a cop.

Fuck you for making me re-engage after I swore I wouldnt. Thats it though.

And finally, my parting thought: fuck you.

Hmmm, Seemed to hit a Nerve....

pritch

20th January 2021, 10:40

You cunt. You lying cunt.

Damn. You quoted him so I got to see it, but he's more deluded than I thought.

All the people who died were killed by police? One was shot by police or Secret Service, I don't think that it has been confirmed specifically. A cop was beaten to death by the crowd, there were three people died due to medical emergencies, and a cop commited suicide a day or so later. Another cop is expected to lose an eye from injuries sustained.

neels

20th January 2021, 11:08

Damn. You quoted him so I got to see it, but he's more deluded than I thought.

All the people who died were killed by police? One was shot by police or Secret Service, I don't think that it has been confirmed specifically. A cop was beaten to death by the crowd, there were three people died due to medical emergencies, and a cop commited suicide a day or so later. Another cop is expected to lose an eye from injuries sustained.

One of the 'medical emergencies' was a woman trampled to death by her own mob the while carrying a 'don't tread on me' flag. Oh the irony

https://www.9news.com.au/world/rosanne-boyland-trampled-dont-tread-on-me-gadsden-flag-donald-trump-us-capitol-riot/5d5c7251-e17c-4961-88a8-a906f38d7b54

TheDemonLord

20th January 2021, 11:27

Damn. You quoted him so I got to see it, but he's more deluded than I thought.

All the people who died were killed by police? One was shot by police or Secret Service, I don't think that it has been confirmed specifically. A cop was beaten to death by the crowd, there were three people died due to medical emergencies, and a cop commited suicide a day or so later. Another cop is expected to lose an eye from injuries sustained.

In fairness, I did say earlier I wasn't up to speed on that - so if that's the case - my bad.

The point however was to compare the Death toll/violence to other 'Peaceful protests' and to counterpoint the description and portrayal of those 'peaceful protests' (with a higher body count and a higher cost in terms of damages) with the 'attempted Coup'.

pritch

20th January 2021, 13:00

Trump has always shown his class, or more accurately the complete lack thereof. Biden arrived at Andrews Base on a private jet today. Normally it would be a military jet but Trump reportedly would not approve the military flight. OK, so Biden will approve government payment of the hired Boeing tomorrow, but still...

James Comey was in Los Angeles when Trump sacked him, so Trump must have imagined Comey was hitch hiking back to DC across the USA or something. An FBI director travels with staff and security in an FBI aircraft. When Trump found out Comey had flown back to DC in the FBI 'plane he threw a tantrum.

It was when Trump told Bolton that Bolton was not to use military aircraft, as was normal for someone in hs position, and he had to seek Trump's permission to go anywhere, that Bolton handed in his pre-written resignation.

The few sane people that worked for Trump had pre-written resignation letters. All Trump appointees should have written their letters by now, their jobs end tomorrow.

sugilite

20th January 2021, 13:39

In fairness, I did say earlier I wasn't up to speed on that - so if that's the case - my bad.
'.

No wonder you have been so far off base with this, you clearly have no idea what the fuck happened.

Now come over here and sit on mitches lap, the leader of the Republican senate wants to tell you how your hero trump has been lying to you about the election results and the origins of the riot.....
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-trump-capitol-riot-senate-weighs-another-impeachment-trial

Paul in NZ

20th January 2021, 13:51

In fairness, I did say earlier I wasn't up to speed on that - so if that's the case - my bad.

The point however was to compare the Death toll/violence to other 'Peaceful protests' and to counterpoint the description and portrayal of those 'peaceful protests' (with a higher body count and a higher cost in terms of damages) with the 'attempted Coup'.

Look I dont give a shit and wont do until the Marines turn up at my door - but I'll probably be dead before that happens so..

You are comparing apples and oranges.

The event time scales are vastly different as is the geography

Theres not much to burn marching to the Capitol and the BLM marches didnt always have a specific location focus.

Then theres the difference in how it was policed - literally black and white...

FJRider

20th January 2021, 15:55

Normally yes. As I said though, there have been three seperate checks now, at least one of which, has taken place since they arrived. Overnight our time, two National Guardsmen were removed because of extremist ties. That tends to indicate information received since they arrived in DC.

Having said that, there is a fine line beween three seperate checks (as per the FBI statement) and one continuous ongoing check.

Usually such checks are in three phases. The depth of investigation increases each time.

As opposed to three separate checks ... that check the same thing three times.

pritch

20th January 2021, 17:53

Usually such checks are in three phases. The depth of investigation increases each time.
As opposed to three separate checks ... that check the same thing three times.

That might be the case here. It was demostrably not the case with the FBI during the Kavanaugh hearings. It was revealed the first investigation was as you might expect. Each subsequent "investigation" was a quick check that there had been no offences since the previous check. God knows ahat they are doing now, other than that checks have been ramped up because of intelligence received.

And according to TV1 News the 2 Guardsmen are now more like 22?

Then there's this about Trump's homebaked farewell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb522XHPIH0

husaberg

20th January 2021, 18:06

sugilite

20th January 2021, 18:09

Yeah Pritch, I thought inviting scaramucci to his going away party was odd, like a final no hard feelings party. No Mr Trump, you will have made plenty of enemies while you were playing the part of king of the hill (a temporary part) and they will be wanting revenge now - fun times ahead for the very stable genius. :violin:

husaberg

20th January 2021, 18:17

Damn. You quoted him so I got to see it, but he's more deluded than I thought.

All the people who died were killed by police? One was shot by police or Secret Service, I don't think that it has been confirmed specifically. A cop was beaten to death by the crowd, there were three people died due to medical emergencies, and a cop commited suicide a day or so later. Another cop is expected to lose an eye from injuries sustained.

it was written earlier that the officer died as a direct result of the fire extinguisher being thrown at his face.
there was a video of the event circulated but i am not sure if it was the same officer who died.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/video-shows-capitol-rioter-hit-officer-with-fire-extinguisher/news-story/6e140204a648fa33ebf00eb208bdc3a8

Viking01

20th January 2021, 18:55

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/20/trump-pardons-73-commutes-sentence-for-70-others-full-list

sugilite

20th January 2021, 19:06

Oppps, Tiger King is not on the list, wonder if the limo company does refunds?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/300210094/joe-exotic-has-a-limo-waiting-if-president-trump-pardons-the-tiger-king-star

pete376403

20th January 2021, 19:11

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/20/trump-pardons-73-commutes-sentence-for-70-others-full-list

Steve Bannon passes the test but Joe Exotic doesn't. There are actually some deserving people on that list

pritch

20th January 2021, 19:20

it was written earlier that the officer died as a direct result of the fire extinguisher being thrown at his face.
there was a video of the event circulated but i am not sure if it was the same officer who died.

The officer was hit by a fire extinguisher thrown at his head by a retired fireman. Once felled by the blow to the head, the patriots present beat him to death with what ever they had to hand. Being proud "patriots" that seemed to be mainly flag poles.

I'm still somewhat surprised that some here don't think this was a coup attempt. If a take over of the lawfully elected government by armed insurrectionists with the support of complicit politicians is not a coup, what the fuck is?

husaberg

20th January 2021, 19:36

I'm still somewhat surprised that some here don't think this was a coup attempt. If a take over of the lawfully elected government by armed insurrectionists with the support of complicit politicians is not a coup, what the fuck is?

The same one that thinks they know more than the US supreme court about US laws more than the FBI about security and it seems the and thinks gun law changes approved by 99% of the NZ mps are undemocratic..........
One might wonder why they stormed the US Federal buildings if not to attempt to stop a vote that was democratically getting rid of Trump
Were they going to cook a batch of cookies. Or were they using violence to illegally try to storm the buildings to stop a democratically elected group of people going about a democratic process to anoint the new democratically elected leader using a democratic legal process?

pritch

20th January 2021, 19:37

And on a musical note:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4aTjeCP0Lo

FJRider

20th January 2021, 19:39

... I'm still somewhat surprised that some here don't think this was a coup attempt. If a take over of the lawfully elected government by armed insurrectionists with the support of complicit politicians is not a coup, what the fuck is?

Invite them over here. You could be the next (ok FIRST) kiwi President.

They could be your next police force.

What could possibly go wrong ...

pritch

20th January 2021, 19:45

FJRider

20th January 2021, 19:47

If a take over of the lawfully elected government by armed insurrectionists with the support of complicit politicians is not a coup, what the fuck is?

Did they take over a lawfully elected Government ... or ... enter and occupy a Government building .. ???

husaberg

20th January 2021, 19:54

Steve Bannon passes the test but Joe Exotic doesn't. There are actually some deserving people on that list

Amazing just how many on that list are for fraud and so many serious drug crimes i guess those republicans are really getting tough on crime.

We all know trump doesn't consider fraud serious, but drugs?.......is that serious only if they are Mexican?

but yes on quick perusal there does seem to be some deserving ones on that list.

I still expect a few family members will still be added, you know cause merica...... and nepotism

pritch

20th January 2021, 20:25

Did they take over a lawfully elected Government ... or ... enter and occupy a Government building .. ???

They attempted to overturn the appointment of the lawfully elected president. The Senate was in the process of affirming Biden as the elected president. An entirely ceremonial process. With the conivance of a couple of senators the insurgents tried to stop that and declare Trump elected.

Trump had tried to get Pence to declare him as having won the election rather than Biden. Pence said he couldn't, his role was only ceremonial. So Trump called Pence a traitor. The Trump 'patriots' were stalking the corridors shouting, "Hang Pence".

By any normal definition it was an attempted coup. Fortunately it was performed with Trump's customary blundering incompetence.

pete376403

20th January 2021, 21:12

trumps saying he never went to war with another country. I guess starting a war in your own country is not worth mentioning.

husaberg

20th January 2021, 21:46

maybe hes just waiting until he is officially no longer US prez so he can satisfy some KB idiots definition of a coup
Trump was the only president to stop starting wars...... exactly what wats did Obama start?
Obama actually slashed the number of U.S. troops in war zones from 150,000 to 14,000.

FJRider

21st January 2021, 05:42

They attempted to overturn the appointment of the lawfully elected president. The Senate was in the process of affirming Biden as the elected president. An entirely ceremonial process. With the conivance of a couple of senators the insurgents tried to stop that and declare Trump elected.

Trump had tried to get Pence to declare him as having won the election rather than Biden. Pence said he couldn't, his role was only ceremonial. So Trump called Pence a traitor. The Trump 'patriots' were stalking the corridors shouting, "Hang Pence".

By any normal definition it was an attempted coup. Fortunately it was performed with Trump's customary blundering incompetence.

An attempted occupation of one building in one city does not make it a coup. Regardless of their intent.

Look at the coup that took place in Fiji. Compare the one there and the one you believe took place in the US.

Trumps lot couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery. He needed a better class of supporters.

F5 Dave

21st January 2021, 06:30

As I lay me down to sleep
The Lord I pray my soul to keep
If tommorow I awake
The stupid lying orange turd will be fucking history.

OK it doesn't rhyme, it doesn't scan, but nobody's perfect. :drinkup:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to pritch again.

Hallelujah bruva

Grumph

21st January 2021, 06:47

An attempted occupation of one building in one city does not make it a coup. Regardless of their intent.

Look at the coup that took place in Fiji. Compare the one there and the one you believe took place in the US.

Trumps lot couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery. He needed a better class of supporters.

Bullshit. Apples vs Oranges.

This was an attempted self- coup. Designed to keep him in power.

Fiona Hill - ex CIA international affairs expert who I suspect has organised a couple of coups in her time there spells out the classic steps in an article in the Guardian, Which i can't link to.

Demonise the press - enemies of the people.Place loyalists in positions of power. Cast doubt on the election process - and try to change the results. Refuse to acknowledge defeat. And keep lying....The big lie told often enough will be believed by enough people.

Then wind up the mob.....

If trump had the balls to actually lead the assault on the Capitol the scary thing is that it may have succeeded. With a President leading it in person there would have been enough confusion about chain of command that IMO a hell of a lot of politicians would have been either arrested or dead.

No, it probably wouldn't have lasted - but it might have.

SaferRides

21st January 2021, 07:05

The only reason Trump wasn't arrested at the time and charged is because he was the President.

TheDemonLord

21st January 2021, 07:50

You are comparing apples and oranges.

That's the entire point. Only the Apples that you think I'm talking about are the Oranges and Vice-Versa.

The event time scales are vastly different as is the geography

Sure, a supposed 'Coup' was over in less than a Day, whereas an attempt to secede a section of Land from the US was allowed to go on for days (and resulted in more people dead).

Theres not much to burn marching to the Capitol

Except the Government Buildings.

Then theres the difference in how it was policed - literally black and white...

Indeed - one was dealt with in (at most) a day, the others were allowed to go on for multiple days. As I said, that which you think is Black, I think is white.

TheDemonLord

21st January 2021, 07:57

If trump had the balls to actually lead the assault on the Capitol the scary thing is that it may have succeeded.

This is the part that is most relevant.

If the what happened was a serious attempt to seize power - then the participants would look more like this:

https://miro.medium.com/max/875/1*fhMhDKeEkl5KpfJd0zHzcA.jpeg

and less like this:

https://i.insider.com/5ffd23dbbde805001980c4d9

And you are right, they may have succeeded and there would be a far higher body count.

I'm happy to call what happened wrong, but to call it a Coup, even by the definition of the word or by comparison to literally any other Coup attempt (failed or successful) is a massive over-reach.

PrincessBandit

21st January 2021, 08:37

Bullshit. Apples vs Oranges.

This was an attempted self- coup. Designed to keep him in power.

Fiona Hill - ex CIA international affairs expert who I suspect has organised a couple of coups in her time there spells out the classic steps in an article in the Guardian, Which i can't link to.

Demonise the press - enemies of the people.Place loyalists in positions of power. Cast doubt on the election process - and try to change the results. Refuse to acknowledge defeat. And keep lying....The big lie told often enough will be believed by enough people.

Then wind up the mob.....

If trump had the balls to actually lead the assault on the Capitol the scary thing is that it may have succeeded. With a President leading it in person there would have been enough confusion about chain of command that IMO a hell of a lot of politicians would have been either arrested or dead.

No, it probably wouldn't have lasted - but it might have.

Autogolpe is the term for trumps desperate attempts to remain as Dictator/King/saviour-of-retrumplicans/president-for-life (as he oft pined for a la Putin and others) etc.
Im intrigued that despite the orange one no longer being leader of the USA Fox News are still referring to him as president trump while simultaneously calling President Biden by the correct title. Yet other previous presidents they manage to call “former President”, or simply refer to them by their surname with no mention of their former position.
Of course too Fox’s trump butt-kissers are still winging their hands over the historic second impeachment and how there was “no evidence” of trump’s ‘incitement’. Guess if you choose to be blind then you can plead deniability???

Viking01

21st January 2021, 08:39

If that was (ever) a serious coup attempt, then someone forgot to tell the global investment community.

Choose the DJIA chart for 1 month duration using the following link, and tell me when the "coup" occurred.

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/djia/charts

TheDemonLord

21st January 2021, 09:00

Autogolpe is the term for trumps desperate attempts to remain as Dictator/King/saviour-of-retrumplicans/president-for-life (as he oft pined for a la Putin and others) etc.
Im intrigued that despite the orange one no longer being leader of the USA Fox News are still referring to him as president trump while simultaneously calling President Biden by the correct title. Yet other previous presidents they manage to call “former President”, or simply refer to them by their surname with no mention of their former position.
Of course too Fox’s trump butt-kissers are still winging their hands over the historic second impeachment and how there was “no evidence” of trump’s ‘incitement’. Guess if you choose to be blind then you can plead deniability???

I'm fairly certain that American custom is that for informal usage a President or Vice-President is allowed to continue to use the term after office.

Apparently it also depends on whether you are addressing them directly or indirectly. If I were to address Trump or Obama directly, in an informal setting, then I believe 'President xxxx' is appropriate, whereas if I'm talking to 3rd party, then 'Former President xxxxx' is correct.

If it's a formal event, however then in direct address it's not appropriate, but is for indirect address.

As an example in the debates between Trump and Biden - Biden was referred to as Mr Vice President.

TheDemonLord

21st January 2021, 09:01

Viking01

21st January 2021, 10:27

A few observations about the inauguration ceremony:

https://sputniknews.com/us/202101201081829307-broken-traditions-how-biden-harris-inauguration-compared-to-past-us-ceremonies/

Though I did notice another article that was a little disturbing (if it was true):

https://politics.theonion.com/stray-doberman-accidentally-sworn-in-as-president-after-1846086877

pritch

21st January 2021, 10:37

The followers of Q Anon have hit major cognitive dissonances. Many seem to be finally confronting reality - however belatedly. Still, they seem quicker on the uptake than our local conspiracy theorists.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/qanon-believers-react-to-joe-biden-inauguration_n_60087eebc5b6efae62fe3d10

And there's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHBplurKkiI

sugilite

21st January 2021, 12:07

This is the part that is most relevant.

If the what happened was a serious attempt to seize power - then the participants would look more like this:

https://miro.medium.com/max/875/1*fhMhDKeEkl5KpfJd0zHzcA.jpeg

and less like this:

https://i.insider.com/5ffd23dbbde805001980c4d9

And you are right, they may have succeeded and there would be a far higher body count.

I'm happy to call what happened wrong, but to call it a Coup, even by the definition of the word or by comparison to literally any other Coup attempt (failed or successful) is a massive over-reach.

OK, riddle me this Mr Demonlord - If a portly individual ambles into a bank with a maga hat pulled down over their eyes, they then join a queue for a teller when they spot a security camera and cannot resist to pull the hat off and give an unscripted speech on how their disguise is one of the most beautiful and best ever seen.
He approaches the teller, hands over a demand note written with a sharpie on official government letter head. He shoves over a paper bag, telling the teller to fill it up with cash.
He then gets distracted by a mirror across the way. By the time he focuses back on the job at hand, he hears sirens in the distance. He grabs $5 out of the tellers cash draw and a paper bag, not realizing that was the tellers lunch bag, not the one with the cash in it. He makes a darting break for the door, where he opens up a umbrella too large to fit through it. After finally discarding that, his escape is further hampered - this time by a gently sloping mobility access ramp. Finally he "sprints" down the final 10 foot as he then shuffles across the road and out of sight.
Minutes later the police have followed a stain of orange fake tan lotion across the road from the bank to a burger joint.
They then follow a trail of discarded burger wrappings to the Wherethe lardgoes mini putt golf course - where they then find and arrest the perp.

Now clearly this was the fool of all fools, with no clear plan, and what was planned was executed in the poorest fashion imaginable. The whole heist made a keystone cops movie look like a documentary on sensibility. So considering all of this - was it still a bank robbery?

pritch

21st January 2021, 12:26

TheDemonLord

21st January 2021, 12:30

OK, riddle me this Mr Demonlord - If a portly individual ambles into a bank with a maga hat pulled down over their eyes, they then join a queue for a teller when they spot a security camera and cannot resist to pull the hat off and give an unscripted speech on how their disguise is one of the most beautiful and best ever seen.
He approaches the teller, hands over a demand note written with a sharpie on official government letter head. He shoves over a paper bag, telling the teller to fill it up with cash.
He then gets distracted by a mirror across the way. By the time he focuses back on the job at hand, he hears sirens in the distance. He grabs $5 out of the tellers cash draw and a paper bag, not realizing that was the tellers lunch bag, not the one with the cash in it. He makes a darting break for the door, where he opens up a umbrella too large to fit through it. After finally discarding that, his escape is further hampered - this time by a gently sloping mobility access ramp. Finally he "sprints" down the final 10 foot as he then shuffles across the road and out of sight.
Minutes later the police have followed a stain of orange fake tan lotion across the road from the bank to a burger joint.
They then follow a trail of discarded burger wrappings to the Wherethe lardgoes mini putt golf course - where they then find and arrest the perp.

Now clearly this was the fool of all fools, with no clear plan, and what was planned was executed in the poorest fashion imaginable. The whole heist made a keystone cops movie look like a documentary on sensibility. So considering all of this - was it still a bank robbery?

In your scenario, yes.

But there's a couple of key differences.

If you can show me a Demand note, written with a sharpie on Official MAGA stationary something to the words of 'we are seizing control of the government' or something similar - then your scenario might hold reflect what happened.

The problem is - no such thing exists. In your scenario, the note is the statement of intent.

Now, if you want to raise the Speech as being the equivalent of a note (in your example) - then let us amend your scenario to reflect what was actually said ("peacefully and make your voices heard"):

hands over a withdrawal request, for a legitimate bank account, which he has ownership of, written with a sharpie on official government letter head

Substituting that into your scenario - the answer is 'No, no Robbery occured', at best you could call the subsequent events clerical error or misunderstanding or a lapse in judgement.

However we've already discussed that particular aspect.

I'm happy to agree there was a protest. I'm happy to call it a riot. I'm happy to see the people that broke the law held accountable for their crimes. I'm even extending my same apathy to the Protestors (who ostensibly I share some views with) that were killed/died in the process. I'll even stretch to an agreement that because the target was part of the Government and that there was a political element that a higher penalty should be imposed.

But a Coup? A serious attempt to overthrow the government and seize the levers of Power? That is stretching much further than the sleeve permits.

TheDemonLord

21st January 2021, 12:39

Damn! Somebody else quoted him.

There were armed militia present. There is a clip of a squad of militia, apparently with some training, moving quickly through the crowd in single file while maintaining physical contact with each other. They definitely had a plan.

As well as being armed, some militia members had zip tie restraints. They were equipped to shoot or to take prisoners.
That was not just an attempt to occupy a building, it was a serious attempt to take over the government. Hopefully this will come out in the subsequent court cases.

TDL, if you didn't keep up with the play, and you don't know what happened, does the thought not strike you that you have no idea what you are talking about?

Come now Pritch - either you wish to Ignore or you wish to engage - I hold no malice towards either position but this half-in/half-out is silly.

The part I wasn't sure on was the exact makeup of who had died and how. I knew 5 people had died, didn't know the exact details of the 'Who' and the 'how', I've been corrected and accepted the correction.

There's a photo of 1 guy with Zip-Ties (but I do not believe he was armed).
From the other reports - a total of 5 firearms were seized.

5! Definitely an armed Militia intent on overthrowing the US Government.... And in the US where there are more Firearms than people!

If it was more like 1,000 or even 100 armed militia that broke into the Government building and instead of getting high in the Oregan room went round and systematically took prisoners - then I might be more inclined to agree.

mashman

21st January 2021, 14:45

mashman

21st January 2021, 14:47

pritch

21st January 2021, 14:58

Erm...............

Erm what? Trump had recently replaced top people in the Pentagon, and he was placing loyalists in the CIA and NSA in his final days. They will no doubt all be out on their arse immediately - if not sooner.

mashman

21st January 2021, 15:36

Erm what? Trump had recently replaced top people in the Pentagon, and he was placing loyalists in the CIA and NSA in his final days. They will no doubt all be out on their arse immediately - if not sooner.

:killingme... and yet despite everyone being in place he still lost the election even though he had at least 4 years to plan it. Jog on wilfred.

pritch

21st January 2021, 16:36

:killingme... and yet despite everyone being in place he still lost the election even though he had at least 4 years to plan it. Jog on wilfred.

Sorry, I'm having difficulty comprehending your "logic". How does something Trump did only days ago effect an election that took place in November?

Never mind, I really don't want to know.

mashman

21st January 2021, 16:46

Sorry, I'm having difficulty comprehending your "logic". How does something Trump did only days ago effect an election that took place in November?

Never mind, I really don't want to know.

Of course you're having difficulty, you're clearly a dumbass. I responded to a post that did not limit the number, nor timescale, of Trump placing officials in power. You did that all by your dumbass self.

NOW you know. You are a dumbass.

F5 Dave

21st January 2021, 16:58

It's easy. Put him on ignore too. Nothing sensible, logical, or even entertaining comes from that account.

husaberg

21st January 2021, 17:17

sugilite

21st January 2021, 17:20

In your scenario, yes.

But a Coup? A serious attempt to overthrow the government and seize the levers of Power? That is stretching much further than the sleeve permits.

haha, trust you to twist my words around to suit your "view".

I've noticed when it comes to your standard of proof for right wing shit, it is about as high as Trump tower, but any left shit it is suddenly about as high as Bidens basement :laugh:

See Trumps farewell rally attracted only 200 supporters, a fast dwindling number as former maga madness types are coming back to their senses - there is hope for you yet. Baby steps and all that :niceone:

pritch

21st January 2021, 18:19

Of course you're having difficulty, you're clearly a dumbass. I responded to a post that did not limit the number, nor timescale, of Trump placing officials in power. You did that all by your dumbass self.

NOW you know. You are a dumbass.

The meaning of the words "final days" seem to have eluded you completely, and you think I'm a dumb arse? Instead of posting uninformed nonsense here, you might work on your spelling?

The first posts of yours that i saw indicated you should be on my ignore list. So be it. :bye:

pritch

21st January 2021, 18:27

It's easy. Put him on ignore too. Nothing sensible, logical, or even entertaining comes from that account.

Yeah, it's sad. All the arseholes seemed to be having a time out, so I deleted my ignore list. One by one they are reappearing, and so my ignore list slowly grows again.

Ah well...

FJRider

21st January 2021, 18:27

Bullshit. Apples vs Oranges.

I hold my opinion. You are entitled to yours. I prefer Banana's. Your point is ... ??? :whistle:

This was an attempted self- coup. Designed to keep him in power.

Maybe. But doomed to failure before it began. As I've already stated ... GOOD help is hard to find ... :whistle:

Fiona Hill - ex CIA international affairs expert who I suspect has organised a couple of coups in her time there spells out the classic steps in an article in the Guardian, Which i can't link to.

Oh dear, how sad, never mind. If you can't find the link ... it cant be important ... :whistle:

Demonise the press - enemies of the people.Place loyalists in positions of power. Cast doubt on the election process - and try to change the results. Refuse to acknowledge defeat. And keep lying....The big lie told often enough will be believed by enough people.

Sometimes it works. This time it didn't. AGAIN ... your point is .. ??? :whistle:

Then wind up the mob.....

Winding things up means it should go like clockwork. It didn't. Wrong mob maybe ... :whistle:

If trump had the balls to actually lead the assault on the Capitol the scary thing is that it may have succeeded. With a President leading it in person there would have been enough confusion about chain of command that IMO a hell of a lot of politicians would have been either arrested or dead.

He might have been hurt. He wont like getting hurt. So he gets the dirty jobs done by those that won't matter if they die in the process. Such people are rare in this day and age. As I have already stated ... weight of numbers in the coup process, and an absolute desire of ALL those involved to get the result they want. Even if it results in their death. That last bit is not generally a result most would be happy with. And do their level best to AVOID.

You might have a think about the possibility of how much he paid various people to carry out the actions they did. Or promises made to some/all involved.

Donald is a talker. Not a leader. If he was ... he'd still be in power. With or without a coup. ... :shifty:

No, it probably wouldn't have lasted - but it might have.

So ... doubt exists in YOUR own head. And your ideas of a successful result were based ... depended on ... "if's" ... :shifty:

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing ... :whistle:

A pity Donald didn't have it ... :whistle:

FJRider

21st January 2021, 18:45

Yeah, it's sad. All the arseholes seemed to be having a time out, so I deleted my ignore list. One by one they are reappearing, and so my ignore list slowly grows again.

Ah well...

My Grandmother told me once (That's all it took) to never ignore anybody. It is better to know what they are saying at all times.

What your options are to do and/or say after that ... is up to you to decide.

Not liking what some people say about you (sometimes) is normal. BUT ... I see the KB ignore function as head in the sand approach.

It might suit those with a fragile mentality. Those precious one's that don't like/can't stand hearing things they don't like.

I'm too old to care what some think of me. Even if they're right ... :shifty:

FJRider

21st January 2021, 18:52

Sorry, I'm having difficulty comprehending your "logic". How does something Trump did only days ago effect an election that took place in November?

Never mind, I really don't want to know.

From the success of actually winning/buying his election ... he had four years to plan/buy the next winning one.

Perhaps he should have held his coup a little sooner. Perhaps ... Declare Martial law.

What could have possibly gone wrong .. ??

pritch

21st January 2021, 19:04

It might suit those with a fragile mentality. Those precious one's that don't like/can't stand hearing things they don't like.

That's one way of looking at it. There are a few people who don't seem to come here to discuss anything worthwhile, their basic motivation appears to be to offend people. A psychiatrist could probably explain their problems, and be very well paid to do so. I'm not paid to spend time on them so I don't. The ones I'm thinking of have nothing worthwhile to offer, so insead of reading their bilge I can read something more entertaining or useful.

The numbers are not large. currently two, plus there are a couple of others currently missing in action. If you want to read their rubbish feel free. I'd rather spend my time on something else.

mashman

21st January 2021, 19:15

The meaning of the words "final days" seem to have eluded you completely, and you think I'm a dumb arse? Instead of posting uninformed nonsense here, you might work on your spelling?

The first posts of yours that i saw indicated you should be on my ignore list. So be it. :bye:

It didn't allude me at all. I used the word dumbass for a reason. Americanisation n all nat no. That you needed to change the context to try to make some point that didn't need to be made, isn't surprising. You have fuck all in the way of logic, reason and or common sense to mount anywhere near a cogent argument where YOU do not believe a certain thing to be. That's how children carry on, you know, like Dave. My mistake was thinking you otherwise :killingme...

mashman

21st January 2021, 19:22

From the success of actually winning/buying his election ... he had four years to plan/buy the next winning one.

Perhaps he should have held his coup a little sooner. Perhaps ... Declare Martial law.

What could have possibly gone wrong .. ??

Maybe the objective wasn't to win.

I don't think he's quite that bonkers... failing that though, I also highly doubt that he was in sole charge of making such moves.

TheDemonLord

21st January 2021, 19:32

haha, trust you to twist my words around to suit your "view".

I twisted nothing - I took you at face value then pointed out there is something in your scenario that no one has yet produced an equivalent of in reality.

I've noticed when it comes to your standard of proof for right wing shit, it is about as high as Trump tower, but any left shit it is suddenly about as high as Bidens basement :laugh:

Okay - let's put this to the test, shall we? If this was a Coup (The 'Left Wing Shit' position), then how would you define the CHAZ (The 'Right Wing Shit' position) - and for reference:

https://i0.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/chaz-USA.jpg.

There, you have a written statement of secession, not mere intent.

I'll be charitable, I'll let you set the rules, but I'll apply them and then we'll compare notes.

See Trumps farewell rally attracted only 200 supporters, a fast dwindling number as former maga madness types are coming back to their senses - there is hope for you yet. Baby steps and all that :niceone:

We'll see, one way or another it's bound to be interesting.

1/32 man

21st January 2021, 19:38

Dont think I will read this thread anymore.

I enjoyed reading and trying to understand what others were writing but without 100% success. I agreed with some members, I could tel where they were coming from. Some others? no.

trump sure gave grist for the mill.

A couple of old quotes I like are:
" A wise man once said nothing"
"when the debate is over slander becomes the tool of the loser"

Now off to look at the Biden thread...I hope it is good.

Oh and I am going on a motorcycle ride on Saturday.....Napier to Taihape and back.

F5 Dave

21st January 2021, 19:49

Done the Gentle Annie a couple of time in last 3 months. Not sure which way is best, although the last km or two before the summit T to N is fantastic on a short wheelbase bike.

I never used to use ignore until I realised that a certain few just try to Troll or have mental issues that aren't my problem. Some think they are pseudo intellectuals when it is obvious that they are not really capable of critical thought. Again, not my problem.

FJRider

21st January 2021, 20:50

That's one way of looking at it. There are a few people who don't seem to come here to discuss anything worthwhile, their basic motivation appears to be to offend people. A psychiatrist could probably explain their problems, and be very well paid to do so. I'm not paid to spend time on them so I don't. The ones I'm thinking of have nothing worthwhile to offer, so insead of reading their bilge I can read something more entertaining or useful.

The numbers are not large. currently two, plus there are a couple of others currently missing in action. If you want to read their rubbish feel free. I'd rather spend my time on something else.

If a post offends or annoys you ... reply with same or ignore it. Don't comment/reply. Just scroll on by.

A reaction to your "Same" post usually means a hit. Even if Moderation sends it to PD.

No reply to any posts ... eventually they find someone that will give a reaction to their posts. And either ... just continue to post irrelevant drivel ... for the simple reason to increasing their post count. Or look for a result elsewhere.

pritch

22nd January 2021, 08:29

Done the Gentle Annie a couple of time in last 3 months. Not sure which way is best, although the last km or two before the summit T to N is fantastic on a short wheelbase bike.

I've ridden it both ways, the first time I was grateful I was on the Triumph, not the Ducati. It's a great ride.

sugilite

22nd January 2021, 08:56

I twisted nothing - I took you at face value then pointed out there is something in your scenario that no one has yet produced an equivalent of in reality.

Okay - let's put this to the test, shall we? If this was a Coup (The 'Left Wing Shit' position), then how would you define the CHAZ (The 'Right Wing Shit' position) - and for reference:

https://i0.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/chaz-USA.jpg.

There, you have a written statement of secession, not mere intent.

I'll be charitable, I'll let you set the rules, but I'll apply them and then we'll compare notes.

We'll see, one way or another it's bound to be interesting.
Haha, actually I don't care if it was officially a coup or not, just amusing to see you defend Trump and any and all costs :laugh: The guy just couldn't do any wrong in your World, no matter the avalanche of evidence against him, not just this issue - ANY issue!

TheDemonLord

22nd January 2021, 09:24

Haha, actually I don't care if it was officially a coup or not, just amusing to see you defend Trump and any and all costs :laugh: The guy just couldn't do any wrong in your World, no matter the avalanche of evidence against him, not just this issue - ANY issue!

There's plenty to criticize Trump fairly on.

And the vast majority of his supporters frequently comment on this. From Ben Shapiro all the way to one of the people interviewed at the Riot when asked what he likes about Trump:

"I like his tax cuts, I like the wall, I like he's a good Christian Man..... (kinda...)"

However, I'm going to have a whale of a time pointing out the Double-Standards that will inevitably come.

sugilite

22nd January 2021, 09:40

However, I'm going to have a whale of a time pointing out the Double-Standards that will inevitably come.

As is your democratic right, don't be surprised to see a sugi boot go in from time to time either :yes:

Look at the result of Trump getting fired and ambling off, Motorcycle talk has broken out in the Trump thread - disgusting! :laugh:

TheDemonLord

22nd January 2021, 09:50

As is your democratic right, don't be surprised to see a sugi boot go in from time to time either :yes:

I'd expect nothing less

F5 Dave

22nd January 2021, 17:36

I've ridden it both ways, the first time I was grateful I was on the Triumph, not the Ducati. It's a great ride.
At the top it reminded me of years of Kart track racing on the bucket. Fuk it was fun. The 675 was ideal but I did think about my old RZ350 which would have been better still.

pritch

23rd January 2021, 09:50

My heart bleeds for the woman. Also it's reported that Buffalo Boy feels betrayed that Trump didn't pardon him. In a further report this morning the names of off duty cops who participated in the coup attempt are being forwarded to the FBI in impressive numbers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/01/22/jenna-ryan-private-jet-legal-fees/

pritch

23rd January 2021, 10:06

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRbbzpw7CNo

pritch

23rd January 2021, 13:48

This quote is from an article in the New York Times. It's behind a paywall and I've used up all my free articles, you may be more lucky?

If it looks like a coup and it smells like a coup...

pete376403

23rd January 2021, 14:08

This quote is from an article in the New York Times. It's behind a paywall and I've used up all my free articles, you may be more lucky?

If it looks like a coup and it smells like a coup...

Probably best to describe it as an "attempted coup" - seeing as how unsuccessful it was. A bit like Gunpowder Plot (Guy Fawkes, etc) Doesn't make it any less treasonous and trump is deserving of the same punishment as Fawkes

pritch

23rd January 2021, 14:19

Probably best to describe it as an "attempted coup" - seeing as how unsuccessful it was. A bit like Gunpowder Plot (Guy Fawkes, etc) Doesn't make it any less treasonous and trump is deserving of the same punishment as Fawkes

Fair point.

This one is from the Washington Post. Mr Kruse is a history professor at Princeton.

This is the opening paragraph of the item he quotes.
"Self-styled militia members from Virginia, Ohio and other states made plans to storm the U.S. Capitol days in advance of the Jan. 6 attack, and then communicated in real time as they breached the building on opposite sides and talked about hunting for lawmakers, according to court documents filed Tuesday."

pritch

23rd January 2021, 20:14

Some people are unimpressed with the charges laid against the rioters, insurgents, whatever you want to call them. So far most amount merely to trespass type charges.

Listening to a couple of former prosecutors discussing what is happening it seems these are just holding charges. The idiots were all photographing or videoing themselves so judges will have no problem finding them guilty. Soon, if they have not already, the prosecutors will move to the "charge stacking" phase where they try and dream uo anything alse they can bring to bear. Then they will start to pressure some of those charged to give evidence against others to get convictions on serious charges.

Be interesting to watch it develop. Meanwhile there's Trump's impeachment hearing to keep us interested.

husaberg

23rd January 2021, 21:22

SaferRides

24th January 2021, 07:38

This quote is from an article in the New York Times. It's behind a paywall and I've used up all my free articles, you may be more lucky?

If it looks like a coup and it smells like a coup...NYT is US$3 a month for the first year.

An interesting read. Mr Clark says some of the details are incorrect, but I expect the proof will be whether he still has a job at DOJ in a few months' time. I'm also not sure exactly how the DOJ could overturn the Georgia result with no proof that there was fraud.

But still, that's serious shit that one of their lawyers even suggested it to Trump.

pritch

24th January 2021, 09:11

The Republicans are saying the country needs to unite. That's true as far as it goes, but it seems the Republican's version of unite is that the Democrats do what the Republicans want. The thought occurs that if reunification was really their goal they should start proclaiming loud and proud that the election was not stolen and that Biden won a free and fair election.

sugilite

24th January 2021, 09:28

This is just too delicious for words. After many years of trump turning on his closest allies, now his closest allies have finally seen who he is (not DL though). The dems would be crazy not to allow witnesses with characters like buffalo guy wanting to say how they were just following trumps instructions. :laugh:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/qanon-shaman-i-was-duped-by-trump
That would be slightly problematic for the former loser in chiefs lawyers to defend.

R650R

24th January 2021, 09:54

pritch

24th January 2021, 10:28

Sounds like an FBI patsy op where they give a deranged individual the means to commit a crime to bump up there success stats....

That happened it's true, and more than once, but you can't keep quoting it to explain anything and everything however irrelevant. Well you can try but...

pritch

24th January 2021, 11:16

This is just too delicious for words. After many years of trump turning on his closest allies, now his closest allies have finally seen who he is (not DL though).

I saw a headline but not having watched the TV show I didn't pay attention first time. The Tiger King's lawyer was so sure his client was going to get a pardon that he ordered a limousine to uplift him from the jail.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/124016445/inside-the-stretch-limo-where-tiger-king-star-joe-exotics-team-waited-for-a-pardon-that-never-came

pritch

24th January 2021, 11:39

This may mean the "charge stacking" phase is underway.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/23/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-man-charged-threat

husaberg

24th January 2021, 12:20

This may mean the "charge stacking" phase is underway.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/23/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-man-charged-threat

It doesn't sound like a peaceful demonstration that trump fueled up to peacefully promote democracy does it.......

sugilite

25th January 2021, 07:45

Just like the antifa insurgency op in capital thevonly evidence of trump support is a hat that could be bought for $2 ...,,

Ahhh, yes the made in China Maga hat for $2. Kind of sums up the hypocrisy of the former administration nicely.

pritch

25th January 2021, 07:55

Ahhh, yes the made in China Maga hat for $2. Kind of sums up the hypocrisy of the former administration nicely.

Trump might have paid $2 but I think the MAGA shit heads paid more like $35.00. A fool and his money and all that.

TheDemonLord

25th January 2021, 08:34

sugilite

25th January 2021, 09:32

"Preaching to the Choir"

or more specifically, telling the media what they want to hear.

I've been meaning to ask you, what do you think of the whole Trump asking Pence not to certify the election, even though as explained to him, it is a largely ceremonial process and Pence did not have the power to not certify?
If course keep in mind Trump told al his maga loonies that Pence could do it and should do it - then said maga loonies were caught on tape yelling "find Pence, hang Pence" during the capitol hill invasion.
Responsible behavior from Trump?

TheDemonLord

25th January 2021, 09:53

I've been meaning to ask you, what do you think of the whole Trump asking Pence not to certify the election, even though as explained to him, it is a largely ceremonial process and Pence did not have the power to not certify?
If course keep in mind Trump told al his maga loonies that Pence could do it and should do it - then said maga loonies were caught on tape yelling "find Pence, hang Pence" during the capitol hill invasion.
Responsible behavior from Trump?

I've not commented on it, but since you asked:

By your own admission, something that is 'Largely ceremonial' and not 'Purely ceremonial' must carry some form of weight to it.

I suspect that Pence may have been able to do something - but such an action would likely have a counter-balancing mechanism that would be immediately invoked and furthermore would have a large number of repercussions.

I think of it like a large number of Powers that the Queen has. Most of them are largely ceremonial, but if she wanted - she could invoke and the legal framework to legitimize them is still in place. Of course were the queen to do it, I think the UK would suddenly find itself NOT a constitutional Monarchy... Which is probably what Pence was thinking.

sugilite

25th January 2021, 11:27

I've not commented on it, but since you asked:

By your own admission, something that is 'Largely ceremonial' and not 'Purely ceremonial' must carry some form of weight to it.

I suspect that Pence may have been able to do something - but such an action would likely have a counter-balancing mechanism that would be immediately invoked and furthermore would have a large number of repercussions.

I think of it like a large number of Powers that the Queen has. Most of them are largely ceremonial, but if she wanted - she could invoke and the legal framework to legitimize them is still in place. Of course were the queen to do it, I think the UK would suddenly find itself NOT a constitutional Monarchy... Which is probably what Pence was thinking.
You seem to have missed the part of the question asking Responsible behavior from Trump?
That suspicion Pence may have been able to do something (not that I saw reported anywhere btw) was ample reason to knowingly create danger to Pence by giving his supporters the STRONG impression that Pence could "stop the steal" as Trump puts it?

TheDemonLord

25th January 2021, 12:13

You seem to have missed the part of the question asking Responsible behavior from Trump?
That suspicion Pence may have been able to do something (not that I saw reported anywhere btw) was ample reason to knowingly create danger to Pence by giving his supporters the STRONG impression that Pence could "stop the steal" as Trump puts it?

The question of Responsible behavior really does hinge on whether you believe that there was a legitimate danger that Pence would be Lynched.

For me - the Rhetoric of the crowd was indeed violent, but the absence of burned down buildings or other mass acts of vandalism/destruction leads me to hold that they were just Rhetoric - words.

To get into the more interesting question:

Let's pre-suppose that Pence had that power - Should he have used it?

On the one hand, exercising it would have put a halt to proceedings and probably bought time to look at some of the issues in the Swing-States. In particular, the Texas Claim that certain states violated their own constitutions by not following their own rules is probably the most important issue to be heard. If a State can ignore it's own rules on how it should conduct an election, why should other states adhere to theirs? Further to that, if one State is 'Corrupt', and that happens to be the deciding Factor, what does that say for the other 51 states? Those are big questions that were never heard and answered.

But, on the other - if you were to tell me that a single individual could exercise arbitrary power to change the Democratic process - what other word for that is there, than Dictatorial?
I'd love to see the Governor General or the Queen or similar forcibly remove Jacinda from power and undo every law change she made - but to do so would violate other principles that I hold in higher regard: If someone can do that to my Enemy, then they can do that to me.
Further to that - what would the US Citizenry do? There's a lot of talk of Armed Revolt and such a course of action would have hastened it.

There's a 3rd tangential position which could be defined as: This situation was created by a number of factors, including mass mail-in voting for States that traditionally do not have strong or large mail-in voting procedures and systems and so all the normal processes of redress got thrown out of the window when everything else was and therefore it's not unreasonable to wield such executive power in times like this.

This really will boil down to what happens next: If the Democrats are insistent on treating nearly half the country as Domestic Terrorists and attempting to Erase Trump's legacy from Existence - it's likely to end in a shooting match and then we'll see if Biden really is the most popular Presidential candidate in history...
And to be honest, at the rate he's going:

- Telling the Illegal Migrants now is not the time (Translation "Let me stop the Border wall, tear it down and then you can come across")
- Implementing Policies that result in Job Losses
- Implementing additional Compliance costs for struggling businesses
- Mass lockdowns that disproportionally affect the lower and middle classes

I don't think it will take too long.

sugilite

25th January 2021, 12:20

The question of Responsible behavior really does hinge on whether you believe that there was a legitimate danger that Pence would be Lynched.

For me - the Rhetoric of the crowd was indeed violent, but the absence of burned down buildings or other mass acts of vandalism/destruction leads me to hold that they were just Rhetoric - words.

So no danger for Pence had he just stood his ground and not run for the bunker when the mob screaming to hang him came through the doors? Would you have felt safe being Pence in that situation?
I'm choosing to ignore all youir other stuff as it is not related at all to what I was asking.

I swear man, if you came home and found Trump banging your missus - you would still find a rosy way to exonerate him :lol:

TheDemonLord

25th January 2021, 12:39

So no danger for Pence had he just stood his ground and not run for the bunker when the mob screaming to hang him came through the doors? Would you have felt safe being Pence in that situation?

How many Government officials were summarily executed?

How many Government agents were summarily executed?

That is not to say it wasn't prudent to evacuate - but the numbers (or rather, lack thereof) speak for themselves.

I swear man, if you came home and found Trump banging your missus - you would still find a rosy way to exonerate him :lol:

So long as I get a turn on Ivanka....

sugilite

25th January 2021, 13:45

How many Government officials were summarily executed?

How many Government agents were summarily executed?

How many questions are you going to avoid by asking more questions :laugh:
AGAIN - So no danger for Pence had he just stood his ground and not run for the bunker when the mob screaming to hang him came through the doors? Would you have felt safe being Pence in that situation?

So long as I get a turn on Ivanka....
Hehehe, gave me a good laugh did that, but I don't think he wants to share his daughter, now you know why Jared looks like he has permanent blue balls, he is cuckolded by dad in law :lol:

TheDemonLord

25th January 2021, 14:13

How many questions are you going to avoid by asking more questions :laugh:
AGAIN - So no danger for Pence had he just stood his ground and not run for the bunker when the mob screaming to hang him came through the doors? Would you have felt safe being Pence in that situation?

It's more a case of the proof being in the Pudding - was it Prudent to evacuate - sure.

But now we have the benefit of Hindsight - the lack of summary and indiscriminate killings is proof that there was not a genuine threat.

Hehehe, gave me a good laugh did that, but I don't think he wants to share his daughter, now you know why Jared looks like he has permanent blue balls, he is cuckolded by dad in law :lol:

I'm a glass half full kinda guy....

sugilite

25th January 2021, 14:38

But now we have the benefit of Hindsight - the lack of summary and indiscriminate killings is proof that there was not a genuine threat.
.

The answer is more rudimentary than that, they did not kill any pollies because they could not find them.

TheDemonLord

25th January 2021, 15:18

The answer is more rudimentary than that, they did not kill any pollies because they could not find them.

Plenty of Government agents though onsite.

And given what typically happens in an actual, attempted Coup - Government agents are either outright killed or given the option: join the Revolution or be killed.

But let's take it one step further than that:

The Pollies have left, but there are plenty of Police/Staffers about - what would happen in an actual Coup (based on historical precedents):

You'd pick a couple of people at random,
put them where everyone else could see - and ask them where the Pollies were.
If they failed to answer or the answers were unsatisfactory - you'd start publicly removing bits of them until they gave an answer or you picked the next one from the crowd.

Thankfully that didn't happen.

It's that absence of deliberate or systematic or political killing that shows the intent wasn't "Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!" and without that murderous intent being manifested - you can't say in hindsight that Pence et al were in serious mortal danger.

RDJ

25th January 2021, 16:10

"...you can't say in hindsight that Pence et al were in serious mortal danger."

Oh they can, and they will keep on so doing. They cannot shake off 4 years of advanced TDS. They gotta keep keeping on.

Also, note the thread clearly labelled "Biden" - the usual pervspects cannot leave Trump off of it :-) "By their fruits shall ye know them", etc. so forth.

Kickaha

25th January 2021, 16:33

and without that murderous intent being manifested - you can't say in hindsight that Pence et al were in serious mortal danger.

Do you think that dead policeman would disagree with you ?

pritch

25th January 2021, 16:45

sugilite

25th January 2021, 16:58

Pence's ceremonial role was simply to unlock the box containing the certifed election results. No option to interfere however slight. Trump wanted Pence to unlock the box and when it was opened announce that Trump had won. Batshit crazy.

TDL's arguments are increasingly desperate, that's a pretty good trick though because his arguments were desperate to begin with.

Yeah, in DL's World, Pence could of also just not opened the box and said tada, trump da winna. So therefore Trump was in his rights to wind up the magas against pence - who if course I could not care less if he got lynched.
I'm also 99.9% sure if the crazy mob came exploding through the doors and DL was there and was told, you stay behind, they are most likely not going to hurt you, he would say "Are you fuckin nuts" while pushing to the head to the front of the escape pod line. :lol:
But behind that keyboard, he has a weapon of mass debate, and is not afraid to use it :eek:

sugilite

25th January 2021, 17:00

Lets not forget another Trump - Melanoma.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWVfFJC0uC0

pritch

25th January 2021, 17:30

For me - the Rhetoric of the crowd was indeed violent, but the absence of burned down buildings or other mass acts of vandalism/destruction leads me to hold that they were just Rhetoric - words.

You really aren't very good at this stuff are you? Here are some words which go waaaay beyond rhetoric... They've already been posted but the significance apparently eluded you.

sugilite

25th January 2021, 18:45

You really aren't very good at this stuff are you? Here are some words which go waaaay beyond rhetoric... They've already been posted but the significance apparently eluded you.

Come on Pritch, those fun loving peaceful maga duck dynasty bunch are a different class of protester to those antifa blm types. They just wanted to turn the gas on to make sure the pollies kept nice and warm in their shelter ;)

TheDemonLord

26th January 2021, 05:06

Do you think that dead policeman would disagree with you ?

One.

Which, although a tragedy, is not the systematic killing of government agents, As is typical in an attempted Coup/Revolution

TheDemonLord

26th January 2021, 05:11

TheDemonLord

26th January 2021, 05:39

Come on Pritch, those fun loving peaceful maga duck dynasty bunch are a different class of protester to those antifa blm types. They just wanted to turn the gas on to make sure the pollies kept nice and warm in their shelter ;)

Did they actually do it?

No?

Whereas BLM/ANTIFA did actually declare a section of the US as Seceded and did actually kill people based on their political affiliation and did burn down buildings.

So yeah: I do judge words differently to actions.

SaferRides

26th January 2021, 05:45

Dominion has sued Giuliani for $1.3 billion.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/25/dominion-rudy-giuliani-lawsuit-election?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

They have also sued Sidney Powell for the same amount. The case will probably drag on for years being the US, but without actual evidence of fraud, Giuliani and Powell could have trouble defending this.

sugilite

26th January 2021, 08:09

sugilite

26th January 2021, 08:19

Well Trumps efforts to steal the election knew no bounds. :facepalm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjtP-Eo7_2I

pritch

26th January 2021, 08:34

Did they actually do it?

Only because they couldn't find them.

Several comments on Twitter overnight about what a toxic workplace environment the Capitol must be. Your colleagues assist people who say they want to kill you, then you all go back to work as if it didn't happen.

Trump isn't the only one who should be found guilty.

pritch

26th January 2021, 08:55

Rudy has a serious problem. The Dominion papers filed in court run to 107 pages, that's a lot of detail, and Rudy gave them a lot of detail. It turns out that MAGA means Making Attorneys Get Attorneys. Although it's hard to see lawyers queueing up to take this case.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/01/dominion-voting-systems-sues-giuliani-over-all-those-lies.html

TheDemonLord

26th January 2021, 10:02

Only because they couldn't find them.

Did the burn the building down?
Fill the tunnels full of Gas?

No?

There is much talk of what was said - but the key point is what was done.

pritch

26th January 2021, 11:10

There is much talk of what was said - but the key point is what was done.

That piece I quoted is not just "talk". That's the FBI. If it gets to court, as is likely, it will be "evidence."
What was actually done becomes almost irrelevant. Someone is on their way to jail.

TheDemonLord

26th January 2021, 11:33

That piece I quoted is not just "talk". That's the FBI. If it gets to court, as is likely, it will be "evidence."
What was actually done becomes almost irrelevant. Someone is on their way to jail.

It's not just talk?

So you can show me, from the FBI, where they did Seal the Tunnels and turn the gas on? or at least made a determined effort to do so?

That's the bit that would make it more than 'Just Talk' - it's also the bit that is curiously absent, from either yourself or the FBI.

pritch

26th January 2021, 13:44

An ex president normally retains Secret Service protection for themselves, their wife, and any children under sixteen years old. Trump has reportedly requested SS protection for fourteen members of his family. It's not like the family appreciated the protection when they had it. Javanka wouldn't let them use any of the six toilets in their house, the Secret Service had to rent a nearby property so as to have a toilet available.

I sincerely hope they tell Trump to fuck off.

pritch

26th January 2021, 15:51

I see the Grifter in Chief is busy figuring out new ways to try and milk the Government for funds. In addition to wanting truck loads of security staff so that he can charge for their presence at Mar A Lardo and when they accompany him on his jet, he is establishing an 'Office of the Former Pesident'. There is no such thing and he should receive the appropriate funding. Nothing.

He is supposed to move out of Mar A Lardo tonight our time too.

sugilite

26th January 2021, 16:19

Did they actually do it?

No?

Whereas BLM/ANTIFA did actually declare a section of the US as Seceded and did actually kill people based on their political affiliation and did burn down buildings.

So yeah: I do judge words differently to actions.
So if a baddy threatens your life, gets stopped by the cops before they can implement their plan, you all good with it? No further action need be taken right? After all they did not get to carry it out. And yes, the magaloonies were ultimately stopped by the authorities.
Just like you would not run and hide from the magaloonies bursting into the capitol buildings.
You one bad arse hombre - from behind the keyboard.
Faced with the above 2 scenarios in REAL life, I bet you would feel very differently than the cavalier attitude you are taking here in the Internets.

SaferRides

26th January 2021, 22:13

Did the burn the building down?
Fill the tunnels full of Gas?

No?

There is much talk of what was said - but the key point is what was done.No, that's not the law, just your opinion. There was clearly intent to commit criminal acts.

husaberg

26th January 2021, 22:35

No, that's not the law, just your opinion. There was clearly intent to commit criminal acts.

You need to be aware that he has already claimed to know more about security than the FBI and more about the US law than the US supreme court.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/185771-Free-speech?p=1131109834#post1131109834
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/185625-Tommy-Robinson?p=1131118602&highlight=supreme+court#post1131118602

pritch

27th January 2021, 08:16

The lawyer for the Dominion voting machine company was asked if he was considering adding Trump to his list, his reply was to the effect that they are ruling nobody out.

pritch

27th January 2021, 08:56

A priest with an eye to the main change, or just another grifter?

https://www.heraldsun.com/news/nation-world/national/article248770700.html

TheDemonLord

27th January 2021, 10:19

So if a baddy threatens your life, gets stopped by the cops before they can implement their plan, you all good with it? No further action need be taken right? After all they did not get to carry it out. And yes, the magaloonies were ultimately stopped by the authorities.
Just like you would not run and hide from the magaloonies bursting into the capitol buildings.
You one bad arse hombre - from behind the keyboard.
Faced with the above 2 scenarios in REAL life, I bet you would feel very differently than the cavalier attitude you are taking here in the Internets.

You're mixing and matching hindsight and real-time events.

At the time, I've said that it was Prudent to seek safety.

So at the time there was a possible threat.

Now in hindsight, you are now adding in information to support a claim there was a definite threat.
Okay, that's fair and reasonable to a point.

However where that point stops is when I ask "did they actually carry out anything that they said they were going to do?" - and that is where there is a disconnect between 'Hey lets do this thing' and that thing not being done or even attempted to be done.

sugilite

28th January 2021, 07:28

However where that point stops is when I ask "did they actually carry out anything that they said they were going to do?" - and that is where there is a disconnect between 'Hey lets do this thing' and that thing not being done or even attempted to be done.
Sorry Trumphy bro, the disconnect is where your need to argue your position at all costs meets reality :pinch:

Meanwhile, the love affair is on the rocks? The "divorce trial" segment is funny, especially divvying up the "kids" lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diZ3LyoyUi8

TheDemonLord

28th January 2021, 08:38

Sorry Trumphy bro, the disconnect is where your need to argue your position at all costs meets reality :pinch:

"I'm going to fly to the moon!"

I've said it, so therefore it must be true....

pritch

28th January 2021, 09:17

Apparently Inbred Barbie is opposed to Biden taking the US back into the Paris agreement. Her reasoning is ummmm interesting?

sugilite

28th January 2021, 09:25

"I'm going to fly to the moon!"

I've said it, so therefore it must be true....

Float your theories with the family of the policemen that had his head smashed in - murdered by the maga mob sport.
Forget any what about reply - i won't read it.

husaberg

28th January 2021, 09:47

Float your theories with the family of the policemen that had his head smashed in - murdered by the maga mob sport.
Forget any what about reply - i won't read it.

Your forgetting he already claims to know more about US law than the US supreme court and more about security than the FBI.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/185771-Free-speech?p=1131109834#post1131109834
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/185625-Tommy-Robinson?p=1131118602&highlight=supreme+court#post1131118602
His latest claims that no policeman was actually killed in the riots/attempted coup shouldn't be a surprise.

What businesses were burned down in 'coup'?
My understanding is that all the people killed, were done so by the Police.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump?p=1131180102#post1131180102
It seems he prefers an alternative reality based on alternative facts

TheDemonLord

28th January 2021, 10:00

Float your theories with the family of the policemen that had his head smashed in - murdered by the maga mob sport.
Forget any what about reply - i won't read it.

Why?

Because you know the comparison looks extremely unfavourable when it goes in the other direction.

And that right there is one of the key issues of resentment.

Whilst a single dead Officer is a Tragedy and the people who killed him should be held accountable: a Single dead Officer is not a coup. Neither in a definitional sense, a historical sense or any other sense.

If you had text messages, via the FBI, talking about bashing in Police - then you could say 'They said they were going to do it, they clearly attempted to do it and therefore...'

pritch

28th January 2021, 10:04

This article contains an nteresting historical video clip of new Congressional Representive, and follower of QAnon, Marjorie Taylor Greene harrassing David Hogg a few weeks after the Parklands School mass shooting. She repeatedly accuses Hogg of 'using the kids'. He himself was one of the kids in the school that day.

Her solution to school shootings, she says in the clip, is armed security in schools. There was armed security at Parklands, professional law enforcement in fact. It was spectacularly unsuccessful.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/marjorie-taylor-greene-parkland-dad-david-hogg_n_60117565c5b6c5586aa587c8

pritch

28th January 2021, 15:34

Float your theories with the family of the policemen that had his head smashed in - murdered by the maga mob sport.

The Capitol Police have released a report that 140 cops were injured on January 6th. In addition to the cop beatedn to death, one was stabbed with a flag pole, one lost an eye, there were head injuries, fractured ribs and discsl included in the toll. The union is pissed off because the management team were aware of what the insurectionists intended, but the word was not passed down to the guys on the ground.

More management heads may yet roll?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/capitol-police-union-reveals-cops-suffered-brain-injuries-loss-of-eye-after-pro-trump-riot/ar-BB1d9cFO

pritch

28th January 2021, 20:55

My heart bleeds...

https://www.curbed.com/2021/01/trump-manhattan-buildings-lost-value.html?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=curbed.socialflow&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=curbed

sugilite

29th January 2021, 07:44

Why?

Because you know the comparison looks extremely unfavourable when it goes in the other direction.

I never let my 4 kids get away with whatabouts. They are always deflections on what is front and center at any given time. Bet you will change your mind in regards to "whatabouts" if you have a second child.
My position on protesting, which I have never shared with you because you just snip out tiny bits of what people say and then write a wall of out of context text about it - is below.
Peaceful protest is allowed - destroying property in the name of protest or violence towards others is not acceptable and should be punished. If they do or do not get punished is beyond my control - but they should be punished, independent of what political system they support.

Last night I saw video of capitol mob rioters screaming at each other to find and hang Mike Pence - it looked fuckin scary and had they found him, for sure shit would of gone down - no question. It made me think of your 100% absurd written response to my question regarding that situation. That then led to me thinking fuck demonlord can be a mealy mouthed wanker of the highest order with his free pass for Trump bullshit. You also can be a great guy, but your support your position at all costs mentality seriously has me thinking I need to put you on my ignore list again. Getting close now, not that I would ever think it makes a difference to you - just sharing.

TheDemonLord

29th January 2021, 10:47

I never let my 4 kids get away with whatabouts. They are always deflections on what is front and center at any given time. Bet you will change your mind in regards to "whatabouts" if you have a second child.

Already do ;)

My position on protesting, which I have never shared with you because you just snip out tiny bits of what people say and then write a wall of out of context text about it - is below.
Peaceful protest is allowed - destroying property in the name of protest or violence towards others is not acceptable and should be punished. If they do or do not get punished is beyond my control - but they should be punished, independent of what political system they support.

None of which is unreasonable - There's nothing for me to Snip out - The question then is based on that - how do you view the BLM Riots vs the Capital Riots?

I think it's worth circling back that this discussion came about because of the attempt of a second Impeachment. The factual evidence of what he said in his speech cannot be clearer. Everything else in his speech - the style of rhetoric is entirely in-line with the standard of Political speech that is conducted in the US. A quick aside to point out that the UK Parliament has very strict rules on what can be said and how it can be said - and it seems clear that one of the functions of those rules is to prevent this sort of thing.

But here's my ultimate position: If the Impeachment is successful - then whatever, my only concern is that the Democrats apply that same standard of incitement to themselves - in which case just about every leading Democrat would also be impeached.

We both know that would never happen even if they did win the Impeachment - and that right there is my entire grievance:

It is one rule for the Democrats and a different rule for the Republicans.

I can live with most sets of rules, so long as they are applied equally.

Last night I saw video of capitol mob rioters screaming at each other to find and hang Mike Pence - it looked fuckin scary and had they found him, for sure shit would of gone down - no question.

I've seen that, and I've also seen people getting High in the Oregan room. With the video of 'Find Pence, Hang Pence', if it's the one I'm thinking of - they've even brought a little Gallows - which you would likely say to me is proof positive of murderous intent... except the Gallows are made out of the flimsiest of plywood and are clearly more a symbol of discontent than a series tool of execution.

And it's that last bit that is key for me.

It made me think of your 100% absurd written response to my question regarding that situation. That then led to me thinking fuck demonlord can be a mealy mouthed wanker of the highest order with his free pass for Trump bullshit. You also can be a great guy, but your support your position at all costs mentality seriously has me thinking I need to put you on my ignore list again. Getting close now, not that I would ever think it makes a difference to you - just sharing.

All I can say is the price of admission is free and you have the choice to engage or not.

Eitherway, you know that whether you have me on Ignore or what differences of opinion we happen to hold on a given subject has no bearing on what I think of you as a person.

R650R

30th January 2021, 12:03

Very interesting going back a couple years to read about vote fraud.....

Apparently it's rampant and possible when the shoes on the other foot....

https://whowhatwhy.org/2018/05/08/gop-voter-suppression-a-bigger-problem-than-russian-meddling/

pritch

30th January 2021, 12:30

Very interesting going back a couple years to read about vote fraud.....

Apparently it's rampant and possible when the shoes on the other foot....

Ummmm your post is confusing. There is a difference between electoral fraud and voter fraud. It's the Republicans who are guilty of the former, and it's them making up fairy tales about the latter. Well actually it was Trump making up fairy tales, but the Republicans went along with him.

The Republicans are always trying to suppress votes. They really don't want those black people being able to vote. Some of their recent unhinged court cases were intended to cancel the votes of whole cities with large black populations. Even judges appointed by Trump weren't able to play that game.

On another matter, it has been obvious to most that Putin has had Trump in his pocket all along. Sometimes Trump would come out with an odd statement and people would shrug their shoulders wondering where that came from. It subsequently transpired it was a Kremlin talking point. An example? Trump suddenly announcing that Montenegrans were aggressive people. Actually he's lucky they aren't all that aggressive or he would have been punched by the PM of Montenegro at an international meeting where he rudely pushed the Montenegran aside so the he, Trump, would be in front for the cameras.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iimj0j4NYME

F5 Dave

30th January 2021, 12:48

The death stats on that site for the UK are staggering. The equivalent of us having 91.5 die every day.

And 2500 extra people in hospital with the Rona and all the special care and isolation precautions that entails. Can you imagine what that costs? Anyone that thinks lockdown was expensive should consider the costs of quickly converting hospital wards to try cope with that. Not to mention the long term health effects, respiratory damage and costs associated.

husaberg

30th January 2021, 12:54

Ummmm your post is confusing. There is a difference between electoral fraud and voter fraud. It's the Republicans who are guilty of the former, and it's them making up fairy tales about the latter. Well actually it was Trump making up fairy tales, but the Republicans went along with him.

The Republicans are always trying to suppress votes. They really don't want those black people being able to vote. Some of their recent unhinged court cases were intended to cancel the votes of whole cities with large black populations. Even judges appointed by Trump weren't able to play that game.

On another matter, it has been obvious to most that Putin has had Trump in his pocket all along. Sometimes Trump would come out with an odd statement and people would shrug their shoulders wondering where that came from. It subsequently transpired it was a Kremlin talking point. An example? Trump suddenly announcing that Montenegrans were aggressive people. Actually he's lucky they aren't all that aggressive or he would have been punched by the president of Montenegro at an international meeting where he rudely pushed the Montenegran aside so the he, Trump, would be in front for the cameras.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book

there was also the manipulation through the targeted ads in 2016 through the trump backers.

The questions surrounding the role of Facebook and other social media sites in the politics of our time have been coming at what feels like an accelerating pace. Reporting by the Observer, the Guardian and the New York Times in recent days has revealed that Cambridge Analytica — the social media monitoring firm that bragged it helped put Trump in the White House — had gained access before the election to the data of 50 million Facebook users through highly questionable means. Cambridge Analytica used to that data to create a tool of “psychological warfare” to manipulate American voters with targeted Facebook ads and social media campaigns. This news has painted the national discussion over social media’s impact on national politics in a stark new light. There was already a debate raging about how targeted digital ads and messages from campaigns, partisan propagandists and even Russian agents were sowing outrage and division in the U.S. electorate. Now it appears that Cambridge Analytica took it one step farther, using highly sensitive personal data taken from Facebook users without their knowledge to manipulate them into supporting Donald Trump. This scandal raises major questions about how this could have happened, how it can be stopped and whether the connection between data-driven ads and democracy is fundamentally toxic.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/23/leaked-cambridge-analyticas-blueprint-for-trump-victory
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica
https://www.wired.com/story/what-did-cambridge-analytica-really-do-for-trumps-campaign/
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/19/trump-cambridge-analytica-oczkowski-114075

Viking01

30th January 2021, 14:40

pritch

30th January 2021, 15:12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQlSlfhpkQk

pritch

30th January 2021, 20:54

" A wet fart at a black tie dinner?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrYH-QSrAA8

pritch

31st January 2021, 09:00

It would seem that Rudy Giuliani considered the 1.3 Billion he is being sued for by the makers of Dominion voting machines is insufficient. He has now said that the attempted coup on the 6th january was orchestrated by the Lincoln Project. He may well be hearing from their lawyers too?

This is a very abreviated clip of his comments.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVVxAzVNcEs

pritch

31st January 2021, 11:14

Josh Hawley was being touted as a 2024 presidential candidate until 6/1/21.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-eLOXLyezw

pritch

31st January 2021, 13:28

The lincoln Project's lawyer has written to Rudy.

pritch

1st February 2021, 06:33

Somehow Trump had arranged a team of serious lawyers for his impeachment trial but it seems they have all now resigned. This seemed odd. A White House reporter has posted that Trump is still adamant that he won the election and that it was stolen from him, and that is to be his defence. It is a crime to lie to Congress so his legal team would have been placing themselves at risk of subsequent prosecution. Safer and saner to get out of Dodge.

pete376403

2nd February 2021, 17:35

Those who claim the Capitol riot was not a coup because it failed (so therefore any involved should not be charged with treason, attempted or otherwise)...

Bonez

2nd February 2021, 17:39

Blah fuck'n blah.

Just saying......

TheDemonLord

2nd February 2021, 21:02

Those who claim the Capitol riot was not a coup because it failed (so therefore any involved should not be charged with treason, attempted or otherwise)...

No one has said it's not a coup because it's failed.

To be a pedant on the Cartoon: How many barrels of Gunpowder did they attempt to place into the White House?

And for added pedantry (because I've gotta be me, right?) - this is in a country where such compounds (not just Gunpowder, others as well), so it's not like stringing the metaphor painfully out isn't outside the bounds reality.

R650R

2nd February 2021, 21:11

Don,
Missed out again.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/black-lives-matter-nobel-peace-prize-petter-eide-norweigan-mp

[Edit]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/01/jared-kushner-nominated-for-nobel-peace-prize

Well they gave Obama one when he was drone strike slaying women and children in wedding convoys...not like it has any prestige anymore....

pritch

3rd February 2021, 08:48

Well they gave Obama one when he was drone strike slaying women and children in wedding convoys...not like it has any prestige anymore....

That's historically inaccurate. Obama got his Nobel before he did that. He'd been president for only nine months when he received the award.

The Nobel must still have prestige, Trump received multiple forged nominations. Alan Dershowitz has recently nominated Jared Kushner. The wrong people still seem to want one quite badly. Of course the million bucks that goes with it might add to the appeal?

TheDemonLord

3rd February 2021, 09:01

That's historically inaccurate. Obama got his Nobel before he did that. He'd been president for only nine months when he received the award.

Okay then, what did he actually do to deserve one?

The Nobel must still have prestige, Trump received multiple forged nominations. Alan Dershowitz has recently nominated Jared Kushner. The wrong people still seem to want one quite badly. Of course the million bucks that goes with it might add to the appeal?

It's more about proving a point about the biased nature of certain institutions.

Obama got one for (as far as I can tell) doing nothing. Some people will say he got one for the 'achievement' of being the first Black US president, but such a thing is not worthy of the Peace prize.

Now, Trump has done at least 3.5 things that have contributed more to global peace than Obama did:

NK Talks
Middle East Peace agreement
Pulling US Troops out from overseas
and the 0.5 is not starting a new War.

I'll hear arguments that some of them have downsides, I'll also hear arguments that some of those are more symbolic - however when compared to others who were awarded the prize and achieved way less, from an objective viewpoint, Trump is a worthy recipient - but we all know that there is no way that certain interest groups would ever allow that, and so it's now being done to demonstrate the Hypocrisy.

You can start wars, Use Drone Strikes etc. etc. and be awarded a Peace Prize (or in this case, not have it revoked), but you can't setup Negotiations with a previously hostile country and sign symbolic peace treaties in order to win one....

All this does is tarnish the prestige that the prize once had.

Kickaha

3rd February 2021, 16:31

Middle East Peace agreement

They can call them that but it isn't what they were

husaberg

3rd February 2021, 16:44

They can call them that but it isn't what they were

Next thing he will be claiming trump did something other than crash a prearranged meeting between north and south Korea.
Or the one they arranged prior to Trump even running for election.

TheDemonLord

3rd February 2021, 17:40

They can call them that but it isn't what they were

Let me rephrase:

"It's more in 4 years than Obama did in 8"

TheDemonLord

3rd February 2021, 17:45

Next thing he will be claiming trump did something other than crash a prearranged meeting between north and south Korea.
Or the one they arranged prior to Trump even running for election.

Well, I'll take the words of the South Korean President.

He seemed to think that Trump had quite a bit to do with it.

Maybe because he did what no other US president managed in nearly 70 years....

pritch

5th February 2021, 16:41

husaberg

5th February 2021, 17:05

Interesting to note that election technology company Smartmatic is now suing FOX News and some of their commentators for US$2.7 Billion. The commentators named will be hoping Murdoch has got plenty to spare.

Back when conservative MP Jeff Archer was perjuring himself in libel cases i think the insurance companies were paying out the damages.
Funny enough Rupert owned the NOTW

pritch

5th February 2021, 18:01

Back when conservative MP Jeff Archer was perjuring himself in libel cases i think the insurance companies were paying out the damages.
Funny enough Rupert owned the NOTW

Bugga! You're spoiling my fun. That's probably what will happen though. That NYT journo O'Brien that said Trump wasn't a billionaire and so as a consequence was sued by Trump. The orange one having forgotten "discovery," he was proven not to be as anywhere near as wealthy as he claimed. Trump sought solace in saying that he had ruined the journo financially. All crap of course, the paper won the case and the insurance paid the fees.

https://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/billionaire-news/donald-trump-sued-journalist-5-billion-2006/

pritch

6th February 2021, 13:00

Propaganda is one thing but Lou Dobbs support of Trump was unhinged. Dobbs hosted the highest rated business show on Fox but suddenly, and with no warning, he's history. FGJ

Both the Dominion and Smartmatic court documents are lengthy, they would be, the companies have hours and hours of idiocy broadcast live on air as evidence.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/05/media/lou-dobbs-fox-show-canceled/index.html

Bonez

6th February 2021, 14:50

Wah wah wah.

Absolutely nobody cares pritch apart from you and my KB stalker.:killingme

Just saying....

sugilite

6th February 2021, 14:50

That Paul Erickson sounds like a individual that deserved a pardon - not! I wonder how much scum bag Trump made from selling pardons to these dirt bags. Clearly Americas founding fathers never thought the people would be stupid enough to vote in an out and out shyster as President. Their laws need a complete overhaul as to what a president can and cannot do.
"A Washington Post review of pardon records found that about 100 of those granted clemency had never even petitioned the Justice Department's Office of the Pardon Attorney, which reviews applications using standardised criteria to impose order and fairness on the process. "
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300223607/how-trumps-pardon-process-broke-down-in-favour-of-rich-and-wellconnected

sugilite

7th February 2021, 08:29

This explains a lot :yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhTbtqOJA08

slofox

7th February 2021, 09:50

Clearly Americas founding fathers never thought the people would be stupid enough to vote in an out and out shyster as President.

Well, not the first time...remember one Mr R Nixon? :whistle:

Bonez

7th February 2021, 11:24

They seem to like electing acters as well. Reagan and Obumma.:buggerd:

pritch

7th February 2021, 13:27

Well, not the first time...remember one Mr R Nixon? :whistle:

Nixon was just an amateur compared to Trump. Trump has never been anything else but a conman. A completely incompetent conman at that. Nixon at least got somethings right.

It's a crime to use the US Presidential Seal in such a way as to deceive. Trump is using the Presdential Seal as his letterhead. He signs himself President Donald J Trump. Considering recent events that could be thought deceptive. He's having to write angry letters because he can't send angry tweets.

TheDemonLord

7th February 2021, 14:17

He signs himself President Donald J Trump.

That's because in informal usage, it's customary to refer to him as such....

Just look at the debate between Trump and Biden - Biden was referred to as 'Vice President Biden' because he had previously held that office.

Nothing new, nothing out of the ordinary.

Bonez

7th February 2021, 15:32

That's because in informal usage, it's customary to refer to him as such....

Just look at the debate between Trump and Biden - Biden was referred to as 'Vice President Biden' because he had previously held that office.

Nothing new, nothing out of the ordinary.
And he'll be able to do it untill he dies. So KB knitting circle lady will need a LOT of regurgitating cream.:lol:

pritch

7th February 2021, 15:53

For the benefit of anybody who still has not woken up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3HJ2CjNCAo

Bonez

7th February 2021, 16:49

For the benefit of anybody who still has not woken up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3HJ2CjNCAoWhen you do come down from your meds and out of that alternative reality of yours pritch you will realise thread is just a rotting corpse. No amount of CPR will bring it back to life deary.:rolleyes:

Just saying....

pete376403

7th February 2021, 18:11

When you do come down from your meds and out of that alternative reality of yours pritch you will realise thread is just a rotting corpse. No amount of CPR will bring it back to life deary.:rolleyes:

Just saying....

Yet here you are. Does this mean you, too, are incapable of recognising a corpse when you encounter it?

Bonez

7th February 2021, 18:19

Yet here you are. Does this mean you, too, are incapable of recognising a corpse when you encounter it?
Back at yah.:nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::nya:: nya::nya:

Just saying......

F5 Dave

7th February 2021, 18:36

I think it means he's just a cunt no one likes.

pete376403

7th February 2021, 19:09

Back at yah.:nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::nya::nya:: nya::nya:

Just saying......

No, i follow this thread because I am interested in what (most ) other posters have to contribute. I believe trump and his supporters represent a real and present danger to the us electoral system (and from there, a corresponding danger to the rest of the world). Going nya nya nya is a particularly childish response but about what would be expected from you.

F5 Dave

7th February 2021, 19:32

Just put him on ignore. He has no power if you do. He's just silent and impotent.

Bonez

7th February 2021, 19:35

You do realise 95 percent of pritch's, numbnuts and the west coast nuckle draggers posts have been total bull shit for the last four and a bit yearsd don't you?

Just saying.....

F5 Dave

7th February 2021, 19:37

And another post from a loser that doesn't show any text. You don't exist.

ellipsis

7th February 2021, 19:51

...I never have time to watch the Simpsons :cry:...but who needs them when I have this thread to browse?...

Kickaha

7th February 2021, 19:57

...I never have time to watch the Simpsons :cry:...but who needs them when I have this thread to browse?...

Fucking hell ginga, don't you have some souls to go and steal ?

Bonez

7th February 2021, 20:00

And another post from a loser that doesn't show any text. You don't exist.
You keep posting that Dave but here I am.:sweatdrop

Bonez

7th February 2021, 20:03

...I never have time to watch the Simpsons :cry:...but who needs them when I have this thread to browse?...Absolutely. Each you KB knitting circle ladies post it is riot.:lol:

ellipsis

7th February 2021, 20:10

You keep posting that Dave but here I am.:sweatdrop

...you are but a figment of an imaginary man in a bitter and twisted realm of your own making...that's not to say that every post you make is unintelligible...just 98 per cent of them...

...good night...all souls previously stolen, within a 20k radius of my place...

Bonez

7th February 2021, 20:22

...you are but a figment of an imaginary man in a bitter and twisted realm of your own making...that's not to say that every post you make is unintelligible...just 98 per cent of them...

...good night...all souls previously stolen, within a 20k radius of my place... Oh the irony. Pity I can't quote your rep comment Goldilocks. You hypocrite.:motu:

Berries

7th February 2021, 20:32

Each you KB knitting circle ladies post it is riot.:lol:
Just quoting that so all the people who have you on ignore cut you some slack as it is clear English is not your first language.

ellipsis

7th February 2021, 20:38

...you actually speld hipakrit correctly...fukn gobsmacked...:first:

pritch

7th February 2021, 20:39

Trump has the potential to keep us entertained for some time yet. Now that he no longer has his man running the Justice Dept some real investigations may be underway. Then there's the New York Attorney General...

I see that Ivanka is complaining that none of the clubs she and her husband apply to join in Florida will accept them as members. She says this breaches her freedom of speech. :rolleyes:

ellipsis

7th February 2021, 20:43

...shades of Cassina happening here...but she was at least intelligible in her posts...

pritch

7th February 2021, 20:49

...shades of Cassina happening here...but she was at least intelligible in her posts...

Yeah he has been responsible for a few threads being binned. Seriously I think it's time he got the arse. He contributes nothing of value. It seems he doesn't even like it here.

Laava

7th February 2021, 21:52

Just quoting that so all the people who have you on ignore cut you some slack as it is clear English is not your first language.
Lols, the PNPT rages again!Stand back! Vicious gums aflappin!

Bonez

8th February 2021, 03:47

You KB knitting circle ladies have been busy. Good morning loves.

sugilite

8th February 2021, 04:32

aww, the forums morning boner - doing his bit to keep this thread alive. :2thumbsup

Bonez

8th February 2021, 05:40

Didn't you sleep last night numbnuts? Connie says :motu::spanking::killingme

sugilite

8th February 2021, 06:56

I reckon the dems are wasting their time impeaching trump. Complete waste of time.

pritch

8th February 2021, 07:39

I reckon the dems are wasting their time impeaching trump. Complete waste of time.

I have hopes for this. Not much but some. The Dems had no choice, if an attempted coup doesn't trigger an impeachment nothing will.

McConnell and other senior Republicans don't want Trump hanging around like some weird ghost of Christmas past. They will want him gone forever, but they will not want to upset his base. There has been mention on Twitter of a low key campaign to get the R votes needed for a guilty verdict from people contemplating retirement, or so senior they are untouchable. It's not much but...

Apparently that crazy bitch Marjorie Taylor Greene has been filming the tunnels used by the escaping politicians on the 6th Jan.

HenryDorsetCase

8th February 2021, 09:23

The best description of Cunt I have heard lately comes from the Saturday Night Live sketch I think this week "Former social media influencer".

HenryDorsetCase

8th February 2021, 09:24

I have hopes for this. Not much but some. The Dems had no choice, if an attempted coup doesn't trigger an impeachment nothing will.

McConnell and other senior Republicans don't want Trump hanging around like some weird ghost of Christmas past. They will want him gone forever, but they will not want to upset his base. There has been mention on Twitter of a low key campaign to get the R votes needed for a guilty verdict from people contemplating retirement, or so senior they are untouchable. It's not much but...

Apparently that crazy bitch Marjorie Taylor Greene has been filming the tunnels used by the escaping politicians on the 6th Jan.

I would have thought there were some national security issues there that the Secret Service might not see the funny side of? But there's a batshit crazy cunt if ever there was one. I love America (well, bits of it) but sure as shit am glad I don't live there.

pritch

8th February 2021, 13:49

I would have thought there were some national security issues there that the Secret Service might not see the funny side of? But there's a batshit crazy cunt if ever there was one. I love America (well, bits of it) but sure as shit am glad I don't live there.

Especially since there is chatter that there is going to be another push to enthrone Trump on March 4th. This is supported by the Trump Hotel DC reportedly increasing its rates for the 4th.

Trump briefly referred to his "Office of The Former President". That has changed, he uses the Seal of the president as his letterhead and signs his letters "President Donald J Trump". Nobody is allowed to refer to him as the former president. He is to be referred to as the forty fifth president. The Republican defence for the impeachmet trial is to be that he can't be tried as he is no longer the president. It might not help ttheir case that he is still insisting he is the president.

F5 Dave

8th February 2021, 14:50

He's a fukin Looney, that's what he is. :weird:

sugilite

8th February 2021, 15:21

I have hopes for this. Not much but some. The Dems had no choice, if an attempted coup doesn't trigger an impeachment nothing will.

McConnell and other senior Republicans don't want Trump hanging around like some weird ghost of Christmas past.
The repubs are kinda dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. I'm picking they won't because they are gutless.

Bonez

8th February 2021, 15:24

The repubs are kinda dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. I'm picking they won't because they are gutless.A bit like you numbnuts.

Please remind me why you went to the Pink Palace in the last 24hrs you sweet thing.

Just saying'

sugilite

8th February 2021, 15:32

Looks like connie bought a cabbage inside from the garden.

Oh dear, looks like Trump will have to go from playing himself to just playing with himself :lol:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/300224577/donald-trump-banned-from-ever-rejoining-us-screen-actors-guild

Bonez

8th February 2021, 16:05

Looks like connie bought a cabbage inside from the garden.

]A radish darling but nice try numbnuts.

Has a bit more bite than you sweet peas.

Just saying,,,,

TheDemonLord

8th February 2021, 16:44

So, this Article has been doing the rounds on various commentary sources that I watch/listen to.

I've given it a read.

https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

One of the Trump supporter claims is that there was a determined effort by various aligned group (even if that alignment only stretches to 'We don't like Trump') to influence the Election result, using various underhanded means.

And this article pretty much comes out and confirms everything in that particular claim. The really interesting part is the brazen nature of the Article - pretty much a condescending 'We did this for your own good' type of 'Fuck You' to half the country, and a blatant exercise in institutional power to the other: "We can rig an election, win it, then say we rigged it and nothing is going to happen to us and there's nothing you can do about it'

Kickaha

8th February 2021, 17:51

"We can rig an election, win it, then say we rigged it and nothing is going to happen to us and there's nothing you can do about it'

Except that wasn't even anything close to what they actually did

pritch

8th February 2021, 18:52

Except that wasn't even anything close to what they actually did

I like your signature line, "Send Lawyers Guns and Money" etc. It kicks off the ear worm...

I'm hiding in Honduras
A desperate man
Send lawyers guns and money
The shit has hit the fan

I must put the CD in the car, it'll make a change from the New Orleans jazz I've neen playing.

Meanwhile back on topic... Herewith a copy of Trump's letter to the Actor's Guild. Use of the Presidential seal is illegal but like so many illegal things he did there's not really much anyone will do. You will also note though that he signs himself as President Donald J Trump. With the seal and that signature it's almost as if he hasn't realised he lost the election.

Interesting spelling of MSNBC too. Perhaps he's dyslexic as well as...