Trump - 4 more years of this at least... [Archive] - Page 16

husaberg

17th March 2022, 20:12

I don’t always have time to cut and paste source material. And while sometimes I may suggest scerarios, options or potential factors of influence that don’t end up materialising you can be rest assured that if I present a simple clear bit of info as fact that it will withstand scrutiny by the best and worst of KB fact checkers. :)
2/12 on the troll Rest assured..... i doubt most would be lose sleep over your claims.

But he did visit the Wuhan lab several years ago with Obama and gave them 1.5$M of taxpayer money....

The media are tripping over themselves trying to solve the mystery of why Africans aren't dying from covid as badly as the west.
Africans routinely take a cheap safe anti malaria drug invented in n 1960's called hydroxychloroquine....
Scooby Doo would solve that puzzle faster

The noun Pandemic is not mentioned in that post, does one not understand grammar.

Every disease is a Pandemic in the modern world as they all spread “across the country or roundvthe world”.

1600 people sick in a country of 5 million is no crisis worth destroying jobs and lives for.

Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..

Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...

Your odds of dying from Covid in NZ is about the same as winning Powerball....
People dream of winning powerball, actively visit known powerball superspreader hot zones twice a week in hope of winning...

Meanwhile about 6 times as many people die in drink drive car crashes.
We even have mass random surveillance testing for that too, typically about 1.5-2% are ‘ infected’ with the influence of alcohol.....
Would we tolerate say a 24hr lockdown every time you bought a beer at bar?
Or after your night at the bar you don’t leave through the front door, a govt agent escorts you to a ‘quarantine ‘ facility which you can’t leave for 24 hrs.
Just imagine that, we would ABSOLUTELY save 150 lives a year
The govt will NEVER do that so why all this crap with the virus where the potential victim has a 93% chance of not even needing hospital treatment...

As of Dec 4 2020

1,298,455 Total tests

2219 positive test results

139 (estimated based on 6.3% in previous data of 1600/80 approx) Hospitalised

25 dead

WHY is it SO HARD to find the data on how many people in NZ NEEDED hospital treatment for this.
This number has to be actively suppressed as ALL the other data comes up very EASY in searches.
The answer is so people don’t ask WHY are we scared.
Can you imagine a Pandemic being declared of the PM said oh by the way 93% of you that actually manage to contract the virus won’t need to go to hospital just stay home and rest.
Nothing else matters the maths tells the story, especially post lockdown any new cases should have spread massively as everyone suddenly enjoyed a watered down form of freedom.
And just think of all those Asymptomatic cases in the 3,800,000 people that have NOT been tested...
There should be another 6600 odd positive cases, another 400 extra in hospital and another 75 people dead, where are they????

Well it seems the MORE deadly and MORE contagious delta variant failed to deliver... just think about that, the infected person came on a flight where people would have taken masks off at times to eat and drink and all shared the same inflight tier facilities. THEN they sauntered all over a MAJOR metropolitan area and thefe was no outbreak.
Guess that’s why an ever nastier version lambda? Starts with L has just been “ discovered”....

Oh but we’ve locked down so quick, yes but not before the exposure events and not before all those exposed on weekends away returned to provincial centres.

One has to wonder if the new respiratory infection in young kids is a result of the sterility of lockdown life not letting there immune systems learn properly in early development months as the age band is very low.
......................

Berries

17th March 2022, 22:42

And while sometimes I may suggest scerarios, options or potential factors of influence that don’t end up materialising ...........
That should be your signature rather than some Trump website that I bet nobody has clicked on.

R650R

18th March 2022, 15:06

That should be your signature rather than some Trump website that I bet nobody has clicked on.

It’s just burley for my harem of KB stalkers that need to shoot messenger rather than debate the facts. At least one did take the bait lol (and it’s not real btw)

Stylo

18th March 2022, 18:45

It’s just burley for my harem of KB stalkers that need to shoot messenger rather than debate the facts. At least one did take the bait lol (and it’s not real btw)

Often wonder how Donald would have reacted to the current Ukraine crisis that his stated mate many times , Putin has created.

Donald, always the tough guy. Whoops. Forgot about his many lies.

We'll start with the bone spurs lie... Total cowardice. He was too afraid to do his thing for his country.

The weakest person with the loudest mouth is, suddenly quiet.

And the stupid ? They keep promoting him.

At least we know who the latter are. On this page. Give me a break.

R650R

18th March 2022, 19:13

Often wonder how Donald would have reacted to the current Ukraine crisis that his stated mate many times , Putin has created.

Donald, always the tough guy. Whoops. Forgot about his many lies.

We'll start with the bone spurs lie... Total cowardice. He was too afraid to do his thing for his country.

The weakest person with the loudest mouth is, suddenly quiet.

And the stupid ? They keep promoting him.

At least we know who the latter are. On this page. Give me a break.

Check this clip out, he showed Putin whose the daddy ....

https://youtu.be/ZwGrnk4_FZE

husaberg

18th March 2022, 21:28

Check this clip out, he showed Putin whose the daddy ....
https://media.vanityfair.com/photos/5dfb93793ffdfd00086c8a42/4:3/w_1928,h_1446,c_limit/TrumpPutin3.jpg

odd choice of words as His daddy also gave him a loan of a few million dollars...............:niceone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlxmiFF85yU

husaberg

19th March 2022, 12:19

Contrast this
with Grabbing the pussy

https://youtu.be/L5p8avFoUWo?t=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np7lObaDiBk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6NfRMv-4OY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhsSzIS84ks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP5bxzmeMSs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jenA5lPNKKM

husaberg

26th March 2022, 17:07

Well, surprise surprise....

Politicians at all levels of government have repeatedly, and falsely, claimed the 2016, 2018, and 2020 elections were marred by large numbers of people voting illegally. However, extensive research reveals that fraud is very rare, voter impersonation is virtually nonexistent, and many instances of alleged fraud are, in fact, mistakes by voters or administrators. The same is true for mail ballots, which are secure and essential to holding a safe election amid the coronavirus pandemic.

The Brennan Center’s seminal report The Truth About Voter Fraud conclusively demonstrated that most allegations of fraud turn out to be baseless and that most of the few remaining allegations reveal irregularities and other forms of election misconduct. Numerous other studies, including one commissioned by the Trump administration, have reached the same conclusion.

Jan 6 (Reuters) - A year after a mob of Donald Trump's supporters assaulted the U.S. Capitol in a failed bid to overturn his 2020 election defeat, the Republican former president continues to repeat false claims blaming widespread voting fraud for his loss to Democrat Joe Biden.

Those claims have been rejected by courts, state governments and members of his own former administration. Trump and his supporters also have sought to play down or deny the violence that unfolded at the seat of the U.S. Congress on Jan. 6, 2021.

US attorney general finds 'no voter fraud that could overturn election'

No evidence for systematic voter fraud: A guide to statistical claims about the 2020 election
President Donald Trump claimed that the 2020 US presidential election was stolen; millions of Americans apparently believed him. We assess the most prominent statistical claims offered by Trump and his allies as evidence of election fraud, including claims about Dominion voting machines switching votes from Trump to Biden, suspiciously high turnout in Democratic strongholds, and the supposedly inexplicable failure of Biden to win “bellwether counties.” We use a combination of statistical reasoning and original data analysis to assess these claims. We hope our analysis contributes to public discussion about the integrity of the 2020 election and broader challenges of election security and election administration.

New evidence shows Trump was told many times there was no voter fraud — but he kept saying it anyway
A data expert for former president Donald Trump’s campaign told him bluntly not long after polls closed in November 2020 that he was definitely going to lose his campaign for reelection.

In the weeks that followed, multiple top officials at the Justice Department informed Trump that they had closely examined allegations of fraud that were being circulated by Trump’s close allies — and had found them simply untrue.

And in the days leading up to the joint session of Congress on Jan. 6, 2021, even Trump’s loyal vice president, Mike Pence, repeatedly conveyed to Trump that he did not believe the Constitution gave him the power to overturn the election as he presided over the counting of electoral college votes giving the presidency to Joe Biden.
According to the panel and others, at least 11 aides and close confidants told Trump directly in the weeks after the election that there was no fraud and no legal way to overturn the result.

http://www.biljohnson.com/uploads/2/9/1/3/291368/trump-speak_orig.jpg
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/58b9faab17bffc359052a561/1565554237571-6MIEI77QRESNECXSF4J3/Einstein-Trump.png

https://i.redd.it/lxgqatwyofh51.jpghttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/12/e2/29/12e2298f4339b4770337231e5c31d172.jpg

https://youtu.be/UD9NuMzAKOk

pritch

30th March 2022, 19:51

There's an interesting clip featuring an interview with Trump. He's blaming Biden for the supply chain issues, "You go to Tiffany, they don't have product."

That Tiffany's may be low on product will not affect many MAGATs.

In case anyone was wondering: https://www.tiffany.com

husaberg

30th March 2022, 20:02

pritch

30th March 2022, 20:30

Are you totally sure he wasnt meaning fake tan that he gets off his daughter?

She wouldn't have fitted within the context. She'd be sandwiched between bread and hardware. The interview is all over Twitter but YouTube are playing hard to get. Making Twitter clips viewable here can be a pain in the arse.

sugilite

2nd April 2022, 14:38

Turd Social installs have dropped 93%!
The platform is so bad, the chief turd does not even post in it.
So a normal Trump business then, he talks it up, gets loads of suckers, I mean "investors", pockets the money and runs as the company crashes.
It was always going to be a turd project, despite what some very optimistic KB based fans said prior to launch.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trumps-truth-social-app-135917666.html

pritch

2nd April 2022, 16:35

F5 Dave

2nd April 2022, 18:25

Dreamer, you know you are a dreamer
Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no!
I said dreamer, you're nothing but a dreamer
Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no!
I said "Far out, what a day, a year, a life it is!"
You know, well you know you had it comin' to you
Now there's not a lot I can do

Dreamer, you stupid little dreamer
So now you put your head in your hands, oh no!
Wow!

I said "Far out, what a day, a year, a life it is!"
You know, well you know you had it comin' to you
Now there's not a lot I can do

Well, work it out someday

If I could see something
You can see anything you want boy
If I could be someone
You can be anyone, celebrate boy
If I could do something
Well, you can do something
If I could do anything
Well, can you do something out of this world?

Take a dream on a Sunday
Take a life, take a holiday
Take a lie, take a dreamer
Dream, dream, dream, dream, dream along

Dreamer, you know you are a dreamer
Well can you put your hands in your head, oh no!
I said dreamer, you're nothing but a dreamer
Well, can you put your hands in your head, oh no!
Oh no!
Dreamer...

sugilite

5th April 2022, 12:02

Oh dear, turd social is further imploding :laugh:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/04/04/trump-social-media-staff-exodus-00022706

F5 Dave

5th April 2022, 12:47

Billy Boozer. Now there's a proud family name.

sugilite

5th April 2022, 18:21

Another trump cronie crook.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/madison-cawthorn-dashcam-traffic-stop-video_n_624b9382e4b098174504fc67

husaberg

5th April 2022, 21:06

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftpc4fwcDfk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvndXb-7XtU

pritch

6th April 2022, 20:39

The great "deal maker" does it again.

husaberg

6th April 2022, 20:42

The great "deal maker" does it again.

Whats the bet none of its his money.....

Laava

7th April 2022, 11:11

I searched appstore on my ipad and couldn't find it

pritch

7th April 2022, 14:30

I searched appstore on my ipad and couldn't find it

Interesting. I too did an App Store search without success.

The main interest now is whether Trump will sue Nunes or Nunes will sue Trump. Nunes is creative, he tried to sue an imaginary cow and his "mother".

husaberg

7th April 2022, 21:14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXyii642UlM

pritch

7th April 2022, 21:52

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXyii642UlM

Yeah, his dad gave him a million dollars for his eighth birthday and the money just kept rolling in. When his old man died the family fortune was about a Billion. He blew his share completely, then came a miraculous recovery. The "King of Debt" was paying cash for everything, and the gullible among us will still try and tell you the Russian thing was a hoax.

He's cracked it now though, the low IQ MAGATs have given him about 150 Million, and the equally dim GOP are paying some of his many legal bills from party funds.

Case study in the career of a con man.

TheDemonLord

8th April 2022, 09:07

and the gullible among us will still try and tell you the Russian thing was a hoax

And what say you about the fine that Hillary and Co had to pay recently?

sugilite

8th April 2022, 09:49

Yeah, his dad gave him a million dollars for his eighth birthday and the money just kept rolling in. When his old man died the family fortune was about a Billion. He blew his share completely, then came a miraculous recovery. The "King of Debt" was paying cash for everything, and the gullible among us will still try and tell you the Russian thing was a hoax.

He's cracked it now though, the low IQ MAGATs have given him about 150 Million, and the equally dim GOP are paying some of his many legal bills from party funds.

Case study in the career of a con man.

And the sad thing is, he will likely never get done for his crimes, because for that to happen, the powers that be would have to admit the US system is so flawed it allowed a crook to become president. Trump is a hack that will say absolutely anything to get want he wants, or does not want. Case in point below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiRjt2p3QgQ

husaberg

10th April 2022, 12:04

A Psychological Profile of the Alt-Right
https://psyarxiv.com/c9uvw

husaberg

10th April 2022, 12:46

Murray Newton Rothbard Rothbard a central figure in the 20th-century American libertarian movement.

A self-confessed admirer of Joseph McCarthy’s political tactics, Rothbard wanted to put some emotional meat on the spare, abstract bones of libertarian economics. Rockwell, who shared Rothbard’s strategy, penned a series of virulently racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic newsletters on behalf of Ron Paul, in hopes of crafting a viscerally appealing emotional aura around libertarianism. “We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational,” one missive went. “I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in [Washington] are semi-criminal or entirely criminal,” said another.

The fullest articulation of Rothbard’s strategy — and a piece of political cynicism for the ages — appeared in his 1992 essay “Right Wing Populism,” an apologia for former Ku Klux Klan grandee David Duke’s failed presidential run. Rothbard found much to like in Duke’s positions: “lower taxes, dismantling the bureaucracy, slashing the welfare system, attacking affirmative action and racial set-asides, calling for equal rights for all Americans, including whites: What’s wrong with any of that?”

Rothbard’s eight-point program for toppling these elites included a call to “abolish affirmative action, set aside racial quotas, etc., and point out that the root of such quotas is the entire ‘civil rights’ structure, which tramples on the property rights of every American.” Also in his program was a call for economic nationalism, under the ominous heading “America First.”

[U]Gavin McInnes bills himself as a libertarian, but he founded the Proud Boys―a men’s rights group that is considered part of the alt-right. Augustus Invictus, a Florida attorney who literally drank goat’s blood as part of an animal sacrifice, ran for senate in the 2016 Libertarian Party primary and spoke at Liberty Fest. Recently popular among college libertarians, Stefan Molyneux evolved into a pro-Trump alt-righter. And Richard Spencer was thrown out of the International Students for Liberty conference this year after crashing the event.

Anti-’68ers and the Racist-Libertarian Alliance: How a Schism among Austrian School Neoliberals Helped Spawn the Alt Right

The alt-right is more than warmed-over white supremacy. It’s that, but way way weirder.
The label blends together straight-up white supremacists, nationalists who think conservatives have sold out to globalization, and nativists who fear immigration will spur civil disarray. But at its core are the ideas of a movement known as neoreaction, and neoreaction (NRx for short) is a rejection of democracy.
he alt-right has become a major base of Trump's online support, causing Trump observers from BuzzFeed to National Review to take notice. They're striking fear into the hearts of the mainstream rightists.
"They are the vehicles by which anti-liberal and dehumanizing sentiments become legitimized in conservative circles, Cathy Young assails the movement as, "a mix of old bigotries and new identity and victimhood politics adapted for the straight white male."
Pat Buchanan, the paleocons' great political hope, has more or less always been this openly bigoted. In 1990 he infamously insisted that 850,000 Jews couldn't have died at Treblinka from diesel fumes. In 2007 he declared, "If you want to know ethnicity and power in the United States Senate, 13 members of the Senate are Jewish folks who are from 2 percent of the population. That is where real power is at." In 2008, he wrote an entire book arguing that the Second World War was basically Britain's fault and Hitler was largely blameless.
Milo Yiannopoulos, the Breitbart writer and major Trump defender who's perhaps the most vocal exponent of alt-rightism online, famously employs an army of interns, a lot of whom he says are "young 4chan guys."

The white supremacists marching at the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, last year were not ashamed when they shouted, “Jews will not replace us.” They were not ashamed to wear Nazi symbols, to carry torches, to harass and beat counterprotesters. They wanted their beliefs on display

TheDemonLord

10th April 2022, 12:50

A Psychological Profile of the Alt-Right
https://psyarxiv.com/c9uvw

Interesting that they seem to omit that the leader of the Alt-Right voted for Biden....

But then, Marxists lying is nothing new.

sugilite

10th April 2022, 17:37

Imagine if Hunter Biden (who absolutely should be investigated) rang the secretary of state with some coup suggestions, the right wing media would explode!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/apr/09/trump-jr-texts-mark-meadows-white-house-election-result

Not to worry, our resident trump apologist should be along shortly to explain why the above behaviour is perfectly acceptable.

Originally, i felt the word coup was way to strong for what happened after the 20 election. I have now changed my mind as more information has come to light. It would of been a coup if they had better organisation skills. Multiple republicans gave it a shot, trump included if course. Thank god the trump administration was too incompetent to pull it off.... This time.

husaberg

10th April 2022, 18:04

TheDemonLord

10th April 2022, 19:00

Imagine if Hunter Biden (who absolutely should be investigated) rang the secretary of state with some coup suggestions, the right wing media would explode!

Or ot would be actively supressed by the likes of Google, Facebook, Twitter, Multiple 'experts' would come leaping to Hunter's defence, it would be declared heresy and then 1-2 years later - suddenly it would be 'investigated'.

The best bit is - I'm not making anything up, the only difference is that it wasn't a text with Coup suggestions, it was corruption, conspiring with an enemy (China).

Now - you made the Hunter comparison, not me - and this is, you'll note, the first time I've raised Hunter and his laptop - and only because you raised Hunter.

Edit - The reason I point this out is that I could have pilloried Biden over the actions of Hunter many many many times in this thread, but up until it became relevant - I've granted President Biden a degree of grace in this - insofar as although it's very clear corruption, it's not that bad in the grand scheme of things - Joe Biden taking Bribes via his Son is a long way down on the list of things to be angry at Joe about.

I want to point this out - to again show how much leeway I do grant the opposition (despite multiple claims I crucify them at every turn).

Not to worry, our resident trump apologist should be along shortly to explain why the above behaviour is perfectly acceptable.

Honestly? It's the Guardian quoting CNN.

If the Texts were as bad as they are being made out, as a matter of Public record (due to the trial) - why wouldn't the Guardian just print them in full? At this point, when one Left-wing rag cites another, instead of citing the source - I'm just going to dismiss it out of hand as lies like the Russia Scandal.

Originally, i felt the word coup was way to strong for what happened after the 20 election. I have now changed my mind as more information has come to light. It would of been a coup if they had better organisation skills. Multiple republicans gave it a shot, trump included if course. Thank god the trump administration was too incompetent to pull it off.... This time.

Now, who was it that was saying to call it a Coup was over-egging the pudding. I seem to recall someone pointing out that if it was an attempt at a Coup, given certain 2nd amendment factors, it simply didn't add up.

Who was it that said this? Their name fails me for the moment.

I do distinctly remember that everyone rubbished them at a time as the resident 'Trump Apologist' thought....

Oh how Time seems to be having a wonderful time vindicating me...

TheDemonLord

10th April 2022, 19:01

but also investigate Trumps family with the same zeal.

So like they've been doing since 2016?

And again - I get to point out here the active suppression of what was a true story by the likes of Facebook/Twitter and the Left-Wing media.

If anyone can show that level of collusion and favoritism towards Trump by those same entities, I'll concede there's some form of Parity.

pritch

10th April 2022, 19:25

Originally, i felt the word coup was way to strong for what happened after the 20 election. I have now changed my mind as more information has come to light. It would of been a coup if they had better organisation skills.

There is no doubt it was a coup attempt and it was recognised as such by people who study such things. Trump cultists may have mentioned that it didn't look like a coup to them. That's their fault. It is recognised as a coup attempt of a type described as a self coup.

Anyone who wants to question that should at least Google it first.

TheDemonLord

10th April 2022, 19:32

it was recognised as such by people who study such things.

Who just so happen to be Academics/Journalists with a demonstrable left-wing bias and hatred of Trump.

No correlation at all between those two data points, total coincidence...

pritch

10th April 2022, 19:43

And what say you about the fine that Hillary and Co had to pay recently?

Eight thousand dollars? She won't be losing sleep over that, but what has that got to do with anything? The fine was not for producing incorrect information. The Mueller report mentioned many contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians.

While all this was going on Trump was trying to get a deal to build a Trump Tower in Moscow - which he denied.

Kushner tried to set up a secure link to Moscow ifrom inside the Russian embassy. WTF?

TheDemonLord

11th April 2022, 08:45

Eight thousand dollars? She won't be losing sleep over that, but what has that got to do with anything?

And the $105,000 that the DNC had to pay, let's not forget that.

I agree she won't loose sleep over it - one might say because she knew the odds were stacked in her favour.

And as such she got the wimpiest slap, with the wettest of bus tickets.

The fine was not for producing incorrect information.

It was for illegally obtaining it.

The Mueller report mentioned many contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians.

While all this was going on Trump was trying to get a deal to build a Trump Tower in Moscow - which he denied.

Kushner tried to set up a secure link to Moscow ifrom inside the Russian embassy. WTF?

Ever heard of 'Fruit of the Poisonous Tree'?

If the DNC didn't illegally Spy on Trump, then no Steele Dossier.
No Steele Dossier, no 'Muh Russia' Hoax.
No 'Muh Russia' Hoax, no Mueller report.
No Mueller report, no Contacts.

The whole house of cards falls down as little more than Smoke and Mirrors.

pete376403

11th April 2022, 14:43

And the $105,000 that the DNC had to pay, let's not forget that.

I agree she won't loose sleep over it - one might say because she knew the odds were stacked in her favour.

And as such she got the wimpiest slap, with the wettest of bus tickets.

It was for illegally obtaining it.

Ever heard of 'Fruit of the Poisonous Tree'?

If the DNC didn't illegally Spy on Trump, then no Steele Dossier.
No Steele Dossier, no 'Muh Russia' Hoax.
No 'Muh Russia' Hoax, no Mueller report.
No Mueller report, no Contacts.

The whole house of cards falls down as little more than Smoke and Mirrors.

When did research on ones opponent morph into illegally spying? Was it illegal spying when Marco Rubio (R-Fl) supporters contracted Fusion? "During the Republican primaries, a research firm called Fusion GPS was hired by The Washington Free Beacon, a conservative website, to unearth potentially damaging information about Mr. Trump. The Free Beacon — which was funded by a major donor supporting Mr. Trump’s rival for the party’s nomination, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida — told Fusion GPS to stop doing research on Mr. Trump in May 2016, as Mr. Trump was clinching the Republican nomination." Or did it only become illegal after the DNC got involved?

"Is this sort of research common or legal?
Campaigns and party committees frequently pay companies to assemble what’s known in politics as opposition research — essentially damaging information about their opponents — and nothing is illegal about the practice."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/25/us/politics/steele-dossier-trump-expained.html

So your argument falls at the first hurdle.

TheDemonLord

11th April 2022, 14:45

When did research on ones opponent morph into illegally spying?

When it's packet sniffing DNS data.

pritch

11th April 2022, 16:48

And the $105,000 that the DNC had to pay, let's not forget that.

I agree she won't loose sleep over it - one might say because she knew the odds were stacked in her favour.

And as such she got the wimpiest slap, with the wettest of bus tickets.

It was for illegally obtaining it.

Ever heard of 'Fruit of the Poisonous Tree'?

If the DNC didn't illegally Spy on Trump, then no Steele Dossier.
No Steele Dossier, no 'Muh Russia' Hoax.
No 'Muh Russia' Hoax, no Mueller report.
No Mueller report, no Contacts.

The whole house of cards falls down as little more than Smoke and Mirrors.

The fine was for improperly reporting the expendure. There was no illegal spyiing. The tree is not poisoned. Even without Steele's docs there's plenty more evidence: the pissed Trump operative who collared the Australian diplomat, Alexander Downer, and gave him an earful of what they were up to. Downer, having been around the block, reported it to the FBI.

It was no hoax at any stage. I can't remember the number now but there were nearly 200 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians. Including Trump's campaign manager giving their polling data to Russian embassy staff.

You are overlooking Jarred Kushener's approach to the Russians to have a direct secure link to Moscow from inside the Russian embassy.

Juniors meeting with Russians in Trump Tower.

The funneling of Russian money through the NRA and Russian agent Maria Buttina's involvement.

Oh, and the whole world saw Trump do his, "Russia if you're listening..." live on TV.

Only cult members can't see that the Russians were donkey deep in Trump's campaign. No surprises there though.

pete376403

11th April 2022, 16:59

When it's packet sniffing DNS data.

A DNS lookup is now illegal spying? How else is my computer going to find another computer when all I have is a name, not an ip. Isnt that what DNS is for?

TheDemonLord

11th April 2022, 17:24

The fine was for improperly reporting the expendure. There was no illegal spyiing. The tree is not poisoned.

They illegally gained access to a DNS server, that's a federal crime. And IIRC - that was one of the reasons it started.

Even without Steele's docs there's plenty more evidence: the pissed Trump operative who collared the Australian diplomat, Alexander Downer, and gave him an earful of what they were up to. Downer, having been around the block, reported it to the FBI.

You mean the guy that (and this is from Wikipedia):

Papadopoulos pleaded guilty to a felony charge of making false statements to FBI agents about the timing and the possible significance of his contacts in 2016 relating to U.S.–Russia relations and the Donald Trump presidential campaign.

Is that really what you are going to cite as proof that the 'Muh Russia' Hoax was true?

Really?

And that's before I quote the words of Alexander Downer himself - who said that there was nothing in it?

It was no hoax at any stage. I can't remember the number now but there were nearly 200 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russians. Including Trump's campaign manager giving their polling data to Russian embassy staff.

Okay, let me be charitable for a second - given the rather inconvenient detail above, Is there any scenario were you are willing to admit that maybe all the salient facts haven't been presented to you?

That maybe the likes of CNN aren't telling you the whole truth?

Because I'm sure that if the shoe was on the other foot, you would ridicule the piss out of any Trump supporter who put forward a claim for which the star witness had already plead guilty to the FBI that they lied about the thing they are claiming.

You are overlooking Jarred Kushener's approach to the Russians to have a direct secure link to Moscow from inside the Russian embassy.

- Supposedly overheard
- by a Russian sp- I mean 'Diplomat'
- not by Kushener himself

Yep - definitely nothing suspect there.

Juniors meeting with Russians in Trump Tower.

Juniors? Who the fuck cares.

The funneling of Russian money through the NRA and Russian agent Maria Buttina's involvement.

My reading of Maria's involvement is that she attempted much and accomplished little and it was not done at the behest of Trump

Oh, and the whole world saw Trump do his, "Russia if you're listening..." live on TV.

I mean, quite clearly sarcasm....

Only cult members can't see that the Russians were donkey deep in Trump's campaign. No surprises there.

Or it's only Cult Members of a different kind who believe a 4 year long smear campaign that failed to prove it's central claim.

I don't doubt that if you were to look at any political party anywhere with the same scrutiny that the Mueller Witch-hunt had, you would find multiple instances of underhanded dealings, slightly illegal activity, questionable meetings etc.

What it failed to do, however, was actually prove the case as alleged.

TheDemonLord

11th April 2022, 17:26

A DNS lookup is now illegal spying? How else is my computer going to find another computer when all I have is a name, not an ip. Isnt that what DNS is for?

DNS is fine, gaining entry to a DNS server to find out which devices have been doing which DNS lookups, when you aren't authorised to do so is most definitely a Federal Crime, and has been since 1986.

Mainly because that kind of data isn't public.

husaberg

11th April 2022, 18:04

You have to wonder why all those pardons were granted to those charged found guilty in trumps administration
oh yeah that's why they were guilty and found guilty... but but hilary :killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme:killingme :killingme:killingme

pritch

11th April 2022, 22:14

Imagine if Hunter Biden (who absolutely should be investigated) rang the secretary of state with some coup suggestions, the right wing media would explode!

Then there's this:

pritch

12th April 2022, 20:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyB7RaOTw6E

husaberg

12th April 2022, 20:42

but but Hikaly no no but but hunter.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLTvEPile40

sugilite

14th April 2022, 13:36

Holy shit, voter fraud found!
Oh wait, it is ANOTHER republican doing it. :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg0-y2tsybE

pritch

14th April 2022, 16:07

Josh Hawley, another Republican, owns and lives in a house in Virginia. To represent Missouri as a senator he needs to live in Missouri, he doesn't, he gave the address of a sister who does.
Not an epic crime but voter fraud no less.

sugilite

26th April 2022, 13:01

Not sure where to put this, so this will do... This guy cracked me up :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxNQ8mOQLvI

TheDemonLord

26th April 2022, 13:11

Not sure where to put this, so this will do... This guy cracked me up :lol:

I mean, if he was even remotely correct on anything he said, sure - it'd be funny.

But to answer his question:

"Why should we be worried about the messages that the biggest producer of Kids entertainment pushes?"

I think the answer is self-evident in the question. The fate of the next generation is an issue as important, if not more-so, than the Power Grid and Infrastructure.

sugilite

27th April 2022, 10:23

So with Musk buying twitter (I can think of other things better to spend billions on) the drums are beating to bring back Trump on the platform.
The below article may or may not be available to all, I can see it, but they are begging me to come back and resubscribe (I'm not) :lol:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/25/trump-twitter-elon-musk-reinstatement/
One of the key takeaways for me is the below paragraph....
"Trump himself has been a late adopter of the network, posting on Truth Social only once, two months ago (”Get Ready! Your favorite President will see you soon!”). People close to him said earlier this month that he had no intention of using it until it was a proven success. At a rally Saturday in Ohio, he even messed up its name, calling it “Truth Central.”

This encapsulates Trumps failures and breathtakingly bad business decisions alongside building poor teams with grandiose overstated visions of their abilities. Truth needs desperately for Trump to post to become successful, so he decides not too. Why? He wants it to become stable and free of problems first. Why was it released in the first place then? Maybe they are finding cloning the look and feel of twitter is just one part of the equation. What they have done is manifest a bizarre which came first, the chicken or the egg in some sort of ever dwindling tightening spiral of doom. Not surprising from a man so short sighted and greedy he bankrupted multiple casinos. Yet some see him as having the chops to be a good president?:eek5::pinch::crazy:

TheDemonLord

27th April 2022, 10:44

So with Musk buying twitter (I can think of other things better to spend billions on)

I dunno - look at what Elon has spent his money on:

Tesla (Electric Cars that mostly work)
SpaceX (I like Space and realistically it is going to be the next grand adventure to colonise another planet)
Twitter (Free Speech is the core of our civilization)

The other thing to remember is, for how much Elon has - it's the equivalent of people like you and me buying a brand new Litre bike as list price.

the drums are beating to bring back Trump on the platform.

I'd love to see that. Not so much for Trump to use it, but to see all the tears of outrage from the censorious lefties who no longer are getting their way...

That said, I saw an article where Trump has indicated he would not use Twitter again.

The below article may or may not be available to all, I can see it, but they are begging me to come back and resubscribe (I'm not) :lol:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/04/25/trump-twitter-elon-musk-reinstatement/
One of the key takeaways for me is the below paragraph....
"Trump himself has been a late adopter of the network, posting on Truth Social only once, two months ago (”Get Ready! Your favorite President will see you soon!”). People close to him said earlier this month that he had no intention of using it until it was a proven success. At a rally Saturday in Ohio, he even messed up its name, calling it “Truth Central.”

This encapsulates Trumps failures and breathtakingly bad business decisions alongside building poor teams with grandiose overstated visions of their abilities. Truth needs desperately for Trump to post to become successful, so he decides not too. Why? He wants it to become stable and free of problems first. Why was it released in the first place then? Maybe they are finding cloning the look and feel of twitter is just one part of the equation. What they have done is manifest a bizarre which came first, the chicken or the egg in some sort of ever dwindling tightening spiral of doom. Not surprising from a man so short sighted and greedy he bankrupted multiple casinos. Yet some see him as having the chops to be a good president?:eek5::pinch::crazy:

Yes and No - again, my experience with Software project roll-out and MVP (Minimum Viable Product) tells me that this is the approach they are going with. If there are UX issues, then fixing them now whilst you have a relatively small number of users (enough to report and fix the issues, but not enough to create a perception) is reasonably wise - because once Trump does start using it, I expect there will be a big uptick in users.

sugilite

27th April 2022, 17:56

Twitter (Free Speech is the core of our civilization)
What I find interesting is the guy who has notoriously thin skin when it comes to criticism of his projects (The infamous top gear review for instance). Is now keen to be the defender of free speech.
I remember the rejection of his offer of a submarine device deemed impractical for that particular rescue generated a pedo tweet from Musk. He won the case, I suspect his money "may" have been an influence in that win :laugh:

I'd love to see that. Not so much for Trump to use it, but to see all the tears of outrage from the censorious lefties who no longer are getting their way...
That would be kind of funny, it could also not work out for him either. I'm finding these leaked recordings around the Jan 6th thing quite interesting.

That said, I saw an article where Trump has indicated he would not use Twitter again.
I admire your continued faith that a Trump quote may be actually truthful and adhered too :laugh:

Yes and No - again, my experience with Software project roll-out and MVP (Minimum Viable Product) tells me that this is the approach they are going with. If there are UX issues, then fixing them now whilst you have a relatively small number of users (enough to report and fix the issues, but not enough to create a perception) is reasonably wise - because once Trump does start using it, I expect there will be a big uptick in users.

Maybe you can get away with that with a internal company software roll out, but turning users into beta testers for what you know is going to be one of the most heavily scrutinized public internet projects on Earth, cummon :oi-grr:
I knew with his history and fake it till ya make it bravado, would end up putting together an incompetent team to implement it. It is a failure on just about any metric you care to run over it. Pure incompetence is what it is, as I'm sure you are well aware.
Had I been overseeing that, and been approached with the plan "Hey, lets go live with this half baked version running on low capacity infrastructure, we will sort it out along the way - trust us it is a reasonably wise way to go", would have received their last pay check and been shown the door.

pete376403

27th April 2022, 18:56

Maybe you can get away with that with a internal company software roll out, but turning users into beta testers for what you know is going to be one of the most heavily scrutinized public internet projects on Earth, cummon :oi-grr:
I knew with his history and fake it till ya make it bravado, would end up putting together an incompetent team to implement it. It is a failure on just about any metric you care to run over it. Pure incompetence is what it is, as I'm sure you are well aware.
Had I been overseeing that, and been approached with the plan "Hey, lets go live with this half baked version running on low capacity infrastructure, we will sort it out along the way - trust us it is a reasonably wise way to go", would have received their last pay check and been shown the door.

Oh I dunno. That type of software development seems to be everywhere - letting the users be the bug finders. A local example: approaching 65 birthday, need to apply for NZ super. Should be easy online, right? Go to MSD website , find the "start here: - do you have a client number? no, go here. fill in all the details including mobile number and email address - two days later, client number sent to email address . Back to website - do you have a client number - YES! go here, Enter client number. FAIL, we do not have your email address or client number, Call 0800 number. FFS !

Of course calling the 0800 is fraught with a whole nother set of frustration. Starts out by warning of at least a 45 minute delay. Auto system asks for instructions , I say "appointment" it comes back with a list of possibilities, I say "make appointment", asks what is appointment for, I say "superannuation", it then tells me to go to IRD for a tax code. this happened at lest five time while using different ways of saying the same thing.
Sorry this has nothing to do with Trump, just needed to vent. Should have put it in the Rant page
!

Viking01

27th April 2022, 19:49

Oh I dunno. That type of software development seems to be everywhere - letting the users be the bug finders. A local example: approaching 65 birthday, need to apply for NZ super. Should be easy online, right? Go to MSD website , find the "start here: - do you have a client number? no, go here. fill in all the details including mobile number and email address - two days later, client number sent to email address . Back to website - do you have a client number - YES! go here, Enter client number. FAIL, we do not have your email address or client number, Call 0800 number. FFS !

Of course calling the 0800 is fraught with a whole nother set of frustration. Starts out by warning of at least a 45 minute delay. Auto system asks for instructions , I say "appointment" it comes back with a list of possibilities, I say "make appointment", asks what is appointment for, I say "superannuation", it then tells me to go to IRD for a tax code. this happened at lest five time while using different ways of saying the same thing.
Sorry this has nothing to do with Trump, just needed to vent. Should have put it in the Rant page
!

Evening.

This too has nothing to do with Trump (just to your last post).

I started to read it and started laughing almost straight away, because my better half made an application for her pension about 6 weeks ago, and some of the steps you mentioned sounded so familiar. ;)

But you may have more fun to come.

We produced (scanned) all the relevant documents, and then uploaded them as we progressed through the online application form. It advised us if any mandatory input was missing, and finally we managed to complete and successfully save the application. Success (or so we thought).

This week, we received an email from MSD with a single page document that the application had been declined because some "mandatory content was missing" . WTF ? No indication of what was missing. C'mon, throw us a bone.

After sitting on the phone for 45-50 minutes, I finally got through to a human who managed to identify the "missing identity documents" needed, and we uploaded them while I was on the phone. Hopefully, success this time.

My turn (to apply for a pension) comes in a few months time , so at least I know what to expect. I think that I'll start early. ;)

Cheers, Viking

pritch

27th April 2022, 22:17

This is just embarrassing. Trump has no fucking idea of the name of his own project. If all the RWNJs head back to Twitter - 'cause Elon, Truth Social is finished. Devin Nunes is talking up Truth Social but CEOs of listed companies are not permitted to lie to inflate the performance of the company. He's not a politician now, lying is normal there, he described his occupation as farmer for years but he didn't own a farm. It just looked good on the paperwork. CEOs of listed companies have to be more accurate. The Securities Commission may already be on his case.

Oh, and Trump is currently being fined $10,000 a day until he hands over the company records requested by the Attorney General of New York.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81vonv_qwk4

pritch

27th April 2022, 22:40

My turn (to apply for a pension) comes in a few months time , so at least I know what to expect. I think that I'll start early. ;)

Do that. They don't do back pay.

TheDemonLord

28th April 2022, 09:23

What I find interesting is the guy who has notoriously thin skin when it comes to criticism of his projects (The infamous top gear review for instance). Is now keen to be the defender of free speech.
I remember the rejection of his offer of a submarine device deemed impractical for that particular rescue generated a pedo tweet from Musk. He won the case, I suspect his money "may" have been an influence in that win :laugh:

To be fair, the Tesla lawsuit was over 10 years ago... Elon today is quite a bit different - I've got my theory as to why he was sensitive about the Top Gear review, but it's not really relevant.

I'll grant you - that we need to see Elon put his metaphorical Money where his Mouth is in terms of what he intends to do with Twitter - but in the same breath - the Man pretty much ran a series of Twitter polls about Twitter and then decides to buy the company outright so he can take it private and turn it into the Digital Town Square.

I respect that.

That would be kind of funny, it could also not work out for him either. I'm finding these leaked recordings around the Jan 6th thing quite interesting.

I'm finding the acquittals of the people who went to trial even more interesting.

I admire your continued faith that a Trump quote may be actually truthful and adhered too :laugh:

Do you think Trump is the type of person to use a competitors Brand when he has his own brand?

Maybe you can get away with that with a internal company software roll out, but turning users into beta testers for what you know is going to be one of the most heavily scrutinized public internet projects on Earth, cummon :oi-grr:

The horror stories I could tell.... And that includes public facing internet projects... Do you remember the Teachers Novopay scandal?

and as other people have chimed in - this is the way of things now. Get it out the door as quick as possible, then have a process for quickly fixing bugs and a fast turn-around time.

There are some merits to this approach, lots of micro-updates means that users are saddled with problems for shorter times and since each update is relatively small, the scope for things going bad is smaller.

I knew with his history and fake it till ya make it bravado, would end up putting together an incompetent team to implement it. It is a failure on just about any metric you care to run over it. Pure incompetence is what it is, as I'm sure you are well aware.
Had I been overseeing that, and been approached with the plan "Hey, lets go live with this half baked version running on low capacity infrastructure, we will sort it out along the way - trust us it is a reasonably wise way to go", would have received their last pay check and been shown the door.

I mean, Fake it till you make it is a viable strategy....

But to re-iterate, a lot of IT Projects go live with a half-baked version on cobbled together infra.... Too many in my opinion. And the scary part is, I've heard the same sorts of stories from colleagues who work at different companies, some of whom are household names and their back-ends are 5-10 years out of date...

TheDemonLord

28th April 2022, 09:27

This is just embarrassing. Trump has no fucking idea of the name of his own project. If all the RWNJs head back to Twitter - 'cause Elon, Truth Social is finished.

This is something I agree with, if Elon does follow through and Twitter becomes a public square - where anyone can speak, so long as it's not illegal - then yeah, I suspect Truth Social won't succeed.

Oh, and Trump is currently being fined $10,000 a day until he hands over the company records requested by the Attorney General of New York.

Which he's appealed - but I've gotta ask - do you not get the faintest whiff of political witch hunt?

sugilite

28th April 2022, 09:41

I'm finding the acquittals of the people who went to trial even more interesting.
But took no interest in the sheer amount of trumps election team he pardoned?

Do you think Trump is the type of person to use a competitors Brand when he has his own brand?
You mean his social media company he raised a billion dollars to build and has posted precisely once in - that brand?

The horror stories I could tell.... And that includes public facing internet projects... Do you remember the Teachers Novopay scandal?
That was you! Bloody hell mate!

and as other people have chimed in - this is the way of things now. Get it out the door as quick as possible, then have a process for quickly fixing bugs and a fast turn-around time.

There are some merits to this approach, lots of micro-updates means that users are saddled with problems for shorter times and since each update is relatively small, the scope for things going bad is smaller.
But not for a major social media platform that has well established competitors already - as I have no doubt you are aware.

I mean, Fake it till you make it is a viable strategy....
But not in turd socials case it would seem.

You need to pop down to mitre10 mega for another case of gloss cans bud :yes:

TheDemonLord

28th April 2022, 09:57

But took no interest in the sheer amount of trumps election team he pardoned?

That presumes that I think the charges were the valid investigations of a neutral observer (suffice to say, I don't)

You mean his social media company he raised a billion dollars to build and has posted precisely once in - that brand?

But that's the question - whether he's posted once or a hundred times - do you think he's the type of egotist to admit someone does it better?

That was you! Bloody hell mate!

Lol - not for me, Private sector all the way.

But not for a major social media platform that has well established competitors already - as I have no doubt you are aware.

So you probably aren't aware - but this isn't the first time something like this has happened - a few years ago, Tumblr decided to ban adult content - there were a lot of Tumblr blogs that were purely for Adult content - some people tried to make alternatives and there's been a couple that have had limited success - but all the problems you list - they have/still have.

Buggy, Feature poor etc.

But not in turd socials case it would seem.

You need to pop down to mitre10 mega for another case of gloss cans bud :yes:

Maybe - but as I said to Pritch - if Elon follows through - there the underlying reason why you would need a Truth Social (or a Gab or a Gettr or a Parler or a...) is gone.

Long live King Elon, the first of his Name.

sugilite

28th April 2022, 10:20

That presumes that I think the charges were the valid investigations of a neutral observer (suffice to say, I don't)

"neutral observer" in US politics and law? :killingme:lol::eek::rolleyes:

But that's the question - whether he's posted once or a hundred times - do you think he's the type of egotist to admit someone does it better?
His denial he clearly lost a free and fair election by a landslide (using trumps own metrics) would suggest not. :lol:

So you probably aren't aware - but this isn't the first time something like this has happened - a few years ago, Tumblr decided to ban adult content - there were a lot of Tumblr blogs that were purely for Adult content - some people tried to make alternatives and there's been a couple that have had limited success - but all the problems you list - they have/still have.

Buggy, Feature poor etc.
Did they have a billion dollars to do it right?

Maybe - but as I said to Pritch - if Elon follows through - there the underlying reason why you would need a Truth Social (or a Gab or a Gettr or a Parler or a...) is gone.

Long live King Elon, the first of his Name.
I don't have any skin in the game, twitter could get even more popular, or die tomorrow, I would not care either way.

BTW, I added a post to the "projects" thread in case you thought I was random trolling)

TheDemonLord

28th April 2022, 11:39

"neutral observer" in US politics and law? :killingme:lol::eek::rolleyes:

Exactly my point.

His denial he clearly lost a free and fair election by a landslide (using trumps own metrics) would suggest not. :lol:

Also exactly my point.

Did they have a billion dollars to do it right?

I'd suggest not - but I do believe that some of them raised a certain amount of start-up capital.

I don't have any skin in the game, twitter could get even more popular, or die tomorrow, I would not care either way.

So I don't have a Twitter account, nor am I likely to get one - however if this restores a place where both sides get to speak, then this can only be good.

That and seeing all the Lefty loons get their comeuppance and crying whilst being BTFO'D is glorious

BTW, I added a post to the "projects" thread in case you thought I was random trolling)

Saw that - I didn't think you were trolling - if I did, you'd have seen a snarky reply :D

sugilite

28th April 2022, 12:01

So I don't have a Twitter account, nor am I likely to get one - however if this restores a place where both sides get to speak, then this can only be good.

That and seeing all the Lefty loons get their comeuppance and crying whilst being BTFO'D is glorious

Well, unbelievably, we seem to be able to sign off on this latest interaction lol

As mentioned prior, while Trump being reinstated would undoubtedly upset some lefties, if Trump were to start tweeting again, it brings his loony thin skinned ravings back into view for said lefties. It would very likely motivate them to actually get out and vote again. trumps latest loony ravings for you to get that gloss out https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/us-canada/300574958/trump-says-he-feared-being-pelted-with-very-dangerous-fruit-at-rallies

It would be interesting to see if Trump could win on 24. For sure Biden is destined to be a lame duck president after the mid terms, and with his approval rating being shit, the dems would be stupid to run Biden again, so that pretty much guarantees they will. :laugh:
So then we will have seen the the US political system serve up 2 well established and proven douches and turd sandwiches. The American people really do deserve better than either of these two very, very old and poor options. Sucks to be them. :mellow:

pritch

28th April 2022, 17:03

My GMail account has nothing in it but begging emails from Trump Social. Not 'Troth Truth Senchal' or even Truth Social. Nearly one everyday and sometimes more than one.

GMail just pointed out that I don't open any of these and perhaps I'd like to unsubscribe so I clicked that option. I doubt it's that easy but we'll see.

F5 Dave

29th April 2022, 18:18

Jesus Krist TDL. You keep coming back for more, yet I have never seen such an uneven lineup as you against sugi. He just nails you.

I'm beginning to wonder if you like the public humiliation. :love:

TheDemonLord

29th April 2022, 20:04

Jesus Krist TDL. You keep coming back for more, yet I have never seen such an uneven lineup as you against sugi. He just nails you.

I'm beginning to wonder if you like the public humiliation. :love:

I'm not sure how you equate me talking about what Software roll-out is actually like and other people confirming that it's sadly true as uneven - but then if you still have me on Ignore as you so oft want to remind everyone, then perhaps you would think it's uneven if you ignore half of what is being said.

I mean the last post is practically myself and Sugilite agreeing: That a place where everyone gets to speak is a good thing. I think it's good because I think there are issues, even contentious ones where both sides of the argument need to be publicly heard, even if they are uncomfortable.

Sugilite thinks it's a good thing because Sunlight is the best disinfectant, if there are unsavory ideas rotting within the current 'Right Wing' then the left seeing them and being motivated to counter them is good.

An idea, I might add, that though I disagree with his framing (I think the Left wing Loons are the ones that are galvanizing right wing support atm), I support the overall notion - that such disagreements need to be had in a public discourse.

husaberg

29th April 2022, 20:28

TheDemonLord

29th April 2022, 21:36

My money is 50% narcissistic pride 50% of him being a masochist.

Ironically, never been much of a Masochist, it made my eyes water...

So whenever you want to pay up, let me know - I'll send you a cashapp link.

R650R

30th April 2022, 22:13

One for Pritch his favourite CIA assett /controlled opposition man Alex Jones and the continuing legal saga....

An interesting snippet they claim Alex has made half a billion dollars profit over last ten years or an average of 50 million a year....
Despite his popularity in the arena he operates in I find it hard to believe there is that much money to be made from DVDs/merch/ad revenue given how mainstream media outlets are struggling even with paid subscription models...
But 50 million is chump change to be controlling the public opinion in atarget sector....

https://youtu.be/6lsKkrDxHJI

husaberg

30th April 2022, 23:05

sugilite

7th May 2022, 15:46

TheDemonLord

7th May 2022, 16:16

Bloody hell, This Republican is getting a good head start by starting his career in prison :laugh:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/06/indiana-andrew-wilhoite-charged-murder-republican-primary

So many quality candidates over the last few years!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/aug/03/ohio-special-election-congress-mike-carey-donald-trump

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/19/laura-loomer-far-right-activist-wins-republican-primary-florida

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/13/nevada-pimp-dennis-hof-republican-primary-winner-who-is-he

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/sep/14/bill-nojay-republican-new-york-state-assembly-win

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/11/georgia-republican-primary-marjorie-taylor-greene

I mean, if I was to go to the right-wing equivalent of the Guardian (so something more right wing than Breitbart) - I'm sure I could find multiple hit pieces on multiple Democrat Candidates... (something Soros, something WEF, something Epstein, something Communist etc. etc.)

And given the Propensity of the Guardian to exaggerate certain things (and out-right lie about others) I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in some of their accusations.

I'll also note that some of the ones you included are quite interesting:

Nothing wrong with someone who works in the Coal industry, We still need Coal - just ask Jacinda...
And a Brothel owner - I mean, not my cup of tea, but if we are going to get screwed by the Government, may as well get screwed by a professional...
The guy that shot himself - Suicide is a serious issue, not one to make light of.

Then there's the more objectionable picks

Marjorie... I'm still not decided on her TBH - on some things she's dead on the money, on others... less so I think is the nicest way to put it. I've heard her discussing issues with Tim Poole - She's definitely not one to hold back on an issue - and sometimes she does cross the line IMO - but in the same breath, on the issues where she does cross the line, perhaps if the issue was able to be discussed properly, then I might be more harsh with her crossing the line.

Laura Loomer - I'm not familiar with her.

And if the guy did murder his Wife - then Fuck him.

sugilite

8th May 2022, 08:38

I mean, if I was to go to the right-wing equivalent of the Guardian (so something more right wing than Breitbart) - I'm sure I could find multiple hit pieces on multiple Democrat Candidates... (something Soros, something WEF, something Epstein, something Communist etc. etc.)

Go on, go find some, I could do with a Sunday giggle :laugh:

And given the Propensity of the Guardian to exaggerate certain things (and out-right lie about others) I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in some of their accusations.
You have just described 90% + of any and all media.

Nothing wrong with someone who works in the Coal industry, We still need Coal - just ask Jacinda...
Yes, those coal mine owners that lobbied mcconnel hard to be able to go in, rape the mines and workers then get out again unscathed and unbothered by petty things like severance pay for the miners they just exploited. Top republican move, give the company owners a hand job while stiffing the workers.

The guy that shot himself - Suicide is a serious issue, not one to make light of.
I only read the first article I commented on actually, did they miss out on a Trump endorsement?

Marjorie... I'm still not decided on her TBH - on some things she's dead on the money, on others... less so I think is the nicest way to put it.
I thought she would be right up your alley? Whats not to love for you - a bombastic style, talks constant shit and has no experience in politics.

And if the guy did murder his Wife - then Fuck him.
Maybe the question should be, who in the hell all voted for him!

sugilite

8th May 2022, 17:52

Honest Don strikes again.
https://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-to-ny-ag-letitia-james-new-phone-who-dis-2022-5

But not to worry he has a new phone now....
"Trump's other current phone is a new one. He received it just last week from Truth Social, the social media company created by Trump Media & Technology Group, he said.

This phone, he said, is used solely for posting "truths."

"I use this phone exclusively for posting on Truth Social and no other purpose," Trump said."
So in other words, the new phone has not even been used once :lol:

Keep the 10k daily fines rolling along :yes:

TheDemonLord

8th May 2022, 18:46

Go on, go find some, I could do with a Sunday giggle :laugh:

I should note - I don't frequent those sites either, for the same reason I don't frequent the Guardian.

But seeing as I don't want to dissapoint:

http://americanpatriotcontacttracers.com/the-great-reset-a-rothschild-controlled-take-over-of-the-whole-world/

Although, if you want a really good laugh (since you mentioned Satanism the other day) - the website 'Joyofsatan' has a forum (I'm sure you can find it, I won't post a direct link) it's 50% Nazis, 50% spiritual Satanists (as in Satan is real, Black Magic is real etc.) and 100% nutjob.

You have just described 90% + of any and all media.

Sure, the Guardian, however is particularly onerous to read. There's certainly scope for media, even news media and Journalism for Speculation and opinion - there can be room for objective facts with subjective interpretation.

The Guardian, however, is perhaps better articulated as "Subjective 'facts'" and "wildly subjective opinion"

Yes, those coal mine owners that lobbied mcconnel hard to be able to go in, rape the mines and workers then get out again unscathed and unbothered by petty things like severance pay for the miners they just exploited. Top republican move, give the company owners a hand job while stiffing the workers.

Is this a republican issue or a Mine working in general issue - cause what you've described sounds eerily like Pike River.

I only read the first article I commented on actually, did they miss out on a Trump endorsement?

I don't know - when I read he committed Suicide, I stopped reading - speaking ill of the dead and all that.

I thought she would be right up your alley? Whats not to love for you - a bombastic style, talks constant shit and has no experience in politics.

As I said, I'm not sold on her, there are some issues where I feel she goes too far beyond the realm of legitimate grievance.

Maybe the question should be, who in the hell all voted for him!

I didn't see in the article whether the votes were cast before the alleged murder was public knowledge?

husaberg

8th May 2022, 18:48

F5 Dave

8th May 2022, 19:14

Funny thing is Trump would kill TDL just for the pleasure of a dollar or perceived ego inflation.

TheDemonLord

8th May 2022, 20:20

Funny thing is Trump would kill TDL just for the pleasure of a dollar or perceived ego inflation.

Your record seems to be stuck.

Either that, or you've got a raging hard-on for me being killed.

Not sure how I feel about that TBH.

That said, Trump would also be willing to make a deal with me if I could offer him something in return, which I can work with.

TheDemonLord

12th May 2022, 09:14

Well, I'm now convinced.

Elon is Cegorach (https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Cegorach):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDZdc3pmWRY

pritch

12th May 2022, 09:41

Needless to say I disagree with his "morally wrong and stupid". I agree though that as it stands Trump can't leave Truth Social, if he goes back to Twitter, Truth Social dies. Even more dead than it is now. I've lost count, but since it started Trump has posted just the two "truths"?

As has been pointed out already, Truth Social would then just be yet another Trump business failure.

TheDemonLord

12th May 2022, 10:00

Needless to say I disagree with his "morally wrong and stupid".

Interesting enough, seems even Jack is disagreeing with you:

https://twitter.com/jack/status/1524109346711519233?cxt=HHwWgoC-mYbY3KYqAAAA

It seems some people are starting to realize that the Monster they helped create will eat them next.

I agree though that as it stands Trump can't leave Truth Social, if he goes back to Twitter, Truth Social dies. Even more dead than it is now. I've lost count, but since it started he has posted just the two "truths"?

As has been pointed out already, Truth Social would then just be yet another Trump business failure.

I agree if he goes back to Twitter, then Truth Social (and likely all the other alternative platforms) will whither and die, but that isn't due to 'business failure' - that's due to a fundamental change that no one (not even me, in my wildest flights of fancy) could have predicted.

sugilite

12th May 2022, 13:59

Hmmmmmmm
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/11/elon-musk-twitter-saudi-arabia

Im going back to the north island via the ferry tomorrow. Get ready for multi quotes Friday :woohoo:

pritch

12th May 2022, 14:19

Trump defaulted on a loan to Deutchbank. He then sued them. After all that, and rather surprisingly, he went back to Deutchbank for another loan. Deutchbank required guarantors of course, and it is believed that there were one or more Russian oligarchs guaranteed the new loan.

Trump used to call himself "the king of debt" but eventually he had burned through his inheritance and was broke. He then started buying up golf courses and resorts - paying cash. Eric Trump is on record saying that the Trump Organisation could get all of the money it needed from Russia. There is one obvious explanation for this, the Trump Organisation is a Russian money laundering operation. The Russians own Trump.

Trump suggested nuking hurricanes as a way to stop them. Trump wanted to bomb China because he thought the Chinese had a "hurricane gun" and were shooting hurricanes at the US. Trump wanted to fire missiles into Mexico and put the blame on another country.

Yet still, some people just don't get it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db457Uzoiwc

This portrait is his third ever post to Truth Social if I have that right.

TheDemonLord

12th May 2022, 14:38

Trump defaulted on a loan to Deutchbank. He then sued them. After all that, and rather surprisingly, he went back to Deutchbank for another loan. Deutchbank required guarantors of course, and it is believed that there were one or more Russian oligarchs guaranteed the new loan.

Trump used to call himself "the king of debt" but eventually he had burned through his inheritance and was broke. He then started buying up golf courses and resorts - paying cash. Eric Trump is on record saying that the Trump Organisation could get all of the money it needed from Russia. There is one obvious explanation for this, the Trump Organisation is a Russian money laundering operation. The Russians own Trump.

Trump suggested nuking hurricanes as a way to stop them. Trump wanted to bomb China because he thought the Chinese had a "hurricane gun" and were shooting hurricanes at the US. Trump wanted to fire missiles into Mexico and put the blame on another country.

Yet still, some people just don't get it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db457Uzoiwc

Okay - Still waiting for some actual evidence, as opposed to anonymous sources with zero credibility and a bunch of hear-say.

I mean - if I were to replace the word Trump with say 'Rothschild' and the word 'Russians' with, say 'Jews' - the above could pass for a post made by Katman...

onearmedbandit

12th May 2022, 18:03

Eric Trump is on record saying that the Trump Organisation could get all of the money it needed from Russia. There is one obvious explanation for this, the Trump Organisation is a Russian money laundering operation.

What do you mean by saying 'on record'? I have no interest in the Trump good guy/bad guy argument but I do like to explore peoples claims to see what shapes their opinions and forms the basis of arguments used.

husaberg

12th May 2022, 18:53

What do you mean by saying 'on record'? I have no interest in the Trump good guy/bad guy argument but I do like to explore peoples claims to see what shapes their opinions and forms the basis of arguments used.

“So when I got in the cart with Eric,” Dodson says, “as we were setting off, I said, ‘Eric, who’s funding? I know no banks—because of the recession, the Great Recession—have touched a golf course. You know, no one’s funding any kind of golf construction. It’s dead in the water the last four or five years.’ And this is what he said. He said, ‘Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.’ I said, ‘Really?’ And he said, ‘Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time.’

Alan Lapidus,
Trump’s former longtime architect, Alan Lapidus, echoed this view in an interview with FP this month. Lapidus said that based on what he knew from the internal workings of the organization, in the aftermath of Trump’s earlier financial troubles “he could not get anybody in the United States to lend him anything. It was all coming out of Russia. His involvement with Russia was deeper than he’s acknowledged.

Donald Trump Jr
2008 “Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets.”

According to Trump’s former real-estate partner and other sources who are familiar with the internal workings of the Trump Organization, his post-’90s revival may have really begun in the early 2000s with the Bayrock Group, which rented offices two floors down from Trump’s in Trump Tower. Bayrock was run by two investors who would help to change Trump’s trajectory: Tevfik Arif, a Kazakhstan-born former Soviet official who drew on seemingly bottomless sources of money from the former Soviet republic; and Felix Sater, a Russian-born businessman who had pleaded guilty in the 1990s to a huge stock-fraud scheme involving the Russian mafia.

Jared Kusner
the son-in-law of Donald Trump, who acts as his senior White House adviser, secured a multimillion-dollar Manhattan real estate deal with a Soviet-born oligarch whose company was cited in a major New York money laundering case now being investigated by members of Congress.

Over the past three decades, at least 13 people with known or alleged links to Russian mobsters or oligarchs have owned, lived in, and even run criminal activities out of Trump Tower and other Trump properties.
Kenneth McCallion
“They saved his bacon,” says Kenneth McCallion, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Reagan administration who investigated ties between organized crime and Trump’s developments in the 1980s.

A Reuters review found that at least 63 individuals with Russian passports or addresses have bought at least $98.4 million worth of property in seven Trump-branded luxury towers in southern Florida.

The tally of investors from Russia may be conservative. The analysis found that at least 703 – or about one-third – of the owners of the 2044 units in the seven Trump buildings are limited liability companies, or LLCs, which have the ability to hide the identity of a property’s true owner. And the nationality of many buyers could not be determined. Russian-Americans who did not use a Russian address or passport in their purchases were not included in the tally.

The resort town of Sunny Isles Beach, site of six of the seven Trump-branded Florida residential towers, stands out in another way: The zip code that includes the Sunny Isles buildings has an estimated 1,200 Russian-born residents, among the most in the country, U.S. Census data show.

Feb the 16th 2017
“I can tell you, speaking for myself, I own nothing in Russia. I have no loans in Russia. I don't have any deals in Russia.”

he brought the Miss Universe Pageant to Moscow in 2013, in partnership with Russian billionaire Aras Agalarov.

onearmedbandit

12th May 2022, 19:00

Yeah I wasn't asking for that, see I can google too...

And nor was the questioned asked of you. I'm sure pritch can answer himself.

husaberg

12th May 2022, 19:45

Yeah I wasn't asking for that, see I can google too...

And nor was the questioned asked of you. I'm sure pritch can answer himself.

You dont want the obvious on record reasons to as why people have said trump was compromised?

So when you said What do you mean by saying 'on record'? you didn't want the actual on record events listed.

Donald Trump Jr., told the global trade publication eTurboNews that Russians were key investors in the Trump Organization’s assets. "And in terms of high-end product influx into the US, Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets; say in Dubai, and certainly with our project in SoHo and anywhere in New York,” Trump Jr. said in the interview. “We see a lot of money pouring in from Russia. There's indeed a lot of money coming for new-builds and resale reflecting a trend in the Russian economy and, of course, the weak dollar versus the ruble."

Paul Manafort, Trump’s former campaign manager, has consulted extensively for pro-Russian former Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych. He played a key role in orchestrating Yanukovych’s winning election campaign in 2010.

Last summer, the New York Times reported the discovery of “handwritten ledgers show[ing] $12.7 million in undisclosed cash payments designated for Mr. Manafort from Mr. Yanukovych’s pro-Russian political party from 2007 to 2012.” Manafort denied that he worked for the Ukrainian government or the Russian government at any point, but public concerns about inappropriate ties to Russia may have played some role in his decision to quit running Trump’s campaign in August.

Rex Tillerson, Trump’s secretary of state, has more than a 15 years of associations with Vladimir Putin and was the former head of Exxon Mobil’s division in Russia. Doing business with Russia in the Arctic was a massive prospect for Exxon that would’ve personally enriched Tillerson a great deal, and while heading Exxon he vocally opposed US sanctions against the country. His fortunes are no longer tied up in Exxon’s performance — in the run up to taking office, he opted to put the value of his company shares in an independently managed trust. But of course his savvy with Russia’s political and economic elites — and his Russian Order of Friendship award — remain.

R650R

12th May 2022, 19:55

Trump defaulted on a loan to Deutchbank. He then sued them. After all that, and rather surprisingly, he went back to Deutchbank for another loan. Deutchbank required guarantors of course, and it is believed that there were one or more Russian oligarchs guaranteed the new loan.

Trump used to call himself "the king of debt" but eventually he had burned through his inheritance and was broke. He then started buying up golf courses and resorts - paying cash. Eric Trump is on record saying that the Trump Organisation could get all of the money it needed from Russia. There is one obvious explanation for this... t.

All of the successful entrepreneurs out there in business utilise debt for success. No one has cash sitting around can of thevmagnitude required to roll high level projects. Cash is a liability for them it could disappear in an instant due to bank failure from other people’s debt s lol
Debt is a powerful tool that we are taught to be afraid of using. People like trump use their negotiation skills to get debt to create assetts. A real asset is something that creates income with very little further effort once created.
However there are plenty of external factors that can interrupt cashflow to service the debt and it all falls over.
Our own govts are masters at using debt to build our vital infrastructures and servicing that debt via our taxes. So in effect we are all operating just like Trump did.....
At least Trump had a few hotels for his efforts where as our debt often just produces a new woke pc govt dept hell bent on making life difficult

pritch

12th May 2022, 20:54

All of the successful entrepreneurs out there in business utilise debt for success. No one has cash sitting around can of thevmagnitude required to roll high level projects. Cash is a liability for them it could disappear in an instant due to bank failure from other people’s debt s lol
Debt is a powerful tool that we are taught to be afraid of using. People like trump use their negotiation skills to get debt to create assetts. A real asset is something that creates income with very little further effort once created.
However there are plenty of external factors that can interrupt cashflow to service the debt and it all falls over.
Our own govts are masters at using debt to build our vital infrastructures and servicing that debt via our taxes. So in effect we are all operating just like Trump did.....
At least Trump had a few hotels for his efforts where as our debt often just produces a new woke pc govt dept hell bent on making life difficult

I have to believe that you failed completely to understand what I wrote.

pritch

12th May 2022, 20:59

What do you mean by saying 'on record'? I have no interest in the Trump good guy/bad guy argument but I do like to explore peoples claims to see what shapes their opinions and forms the basis of arguments used.

It's from an interview he did with a golf reporter some years ago. This one:

https://www.businessinsider.com/eric-trump-golf-courses-russia-funding-2017-5?op=1

There are many reports refer to this. Previously I hadn't seen any denials but on looking now I see the Daily Mail has a report of a denial.

onearmedbandit

12th May 2022, 21:04

It's from an interview he did with a golf reporter some years ago. This one:

https://www.businessinsider.com/eric-trump-golf-courses-russia-funding-2017-5?op=1

From your link -

"We have all the funding we need out of Russia," Eric reportedly said.

Does 'reportedly' qualify as 'on record' now?

husaberg

12th May 2022, 21:06

From your link -

Does 'reportedly' qualify as 'on record' now?
Err it was a first hand account from a person who he said it to. Note he reportedly hasn't been sued for libel either.

F5 Dave

12th May 2022, 21:08

<yawn> unsubscribe. Again.

TheDemonLord

12th May 2022, 21:52

I have to believe that you failed completely to understand what I wrote.

Someone missed the point, I'm not sure it's R650...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sRTL5xEjHNQ

The above is a short video, it's a comedian who does two characters - one who is merely rich and one who is 'really rich'.

I think the skit highlights the point R650 was making and why Trump having a lot of debt actually makes sense for a Man in his position.

TheDemonLord

12th May 2022, 22:02

Err it was a first hand account from a person who he said it to. Note he reportedly hasn't been sued for libel either.

A first hand account of supposedly what someone else said.

e.g. hear-say.

But I want to point something out:

IF the claim is to be believed 100% then here is what you have proved:

Russians have invested in Golf Courses.

Which is an astronomical unit away from what you say you are proving:

Russians influenced Trump in either the election or Policy.

And I again get to say this: Ukraine wasn't invaded under Trump's watch. And normally if you are paying a guy off, you do all your dodgy shit whilst the person you are paying off is in a position of authority.

sugilite

13th May 2022, 08:12

I should note - I don't frequent those sites either, for the same reason I don't frequent the Guardian.

But seeing as I don't want to dissapoint:
Sorry mate you did, this is not a list of crazy dems running for elections. You said there would be heaps, but did not produce any? How could I not be disappointed :no:

Sure, the Guardian, however is particularly onerous to read.

The Guardian, however, is perhaps better articulated as "Subjective 'facts'" and "wildly subjective opinion"
Actually, I disagree. The Guardian is not too bad, no where as bad as msnbc (maddow makes me want to puke, same with lemon.). I'm not drawn to cnn or nbc either.

Is this a republican issue or a Mine working in general issue - cause what you've described sounds eerily like Pike River.
Kentucky coal companies lobbied mcconnel to let them dispense with workers rights and the need to pay severance and such. And he gave it to them, which they then exploited. So in this case, yes a republican issue. As for pike river, that was pure bullshit too. Pollies love to let off corporates, it is in their DNA.

As I said, I'm not sold on her, there are some issues where I feel she goes too far beyond the realm of legitimate grievance.

You are dangerously close to becoming a full blown radicalized MAGA. I read this and prior as you supporting most of what she does.

sugilite

13th May 2022, 08:33

And I again get to say this: Ukraine wasn't invaded under Trump's watch. And normally if you are paying a guy off, you do all your dodgy shit whilst the person you are paying off is in a position of authority.
Well, you are really rolling this line out a lot of late. Presenting it as if that is the sole reason Putin did not invade earlier. Waging war on another nation will be absolutely fraught with many scenarios and logistics to consider. What Americas response will be will be just one of those factors.
However there is one particular fact that absolutely harpoons your statement - and that is Trumps very own words and actions seen here below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvnGjipBZFM

What an earth about that speech would cause Putin to be fearful and stop an invasion? For the first time in history an American president supported a russian leader over his own many intelligence agencies and he did it on the most public stage possible.

Now you can bleat and whine how Trump had a grievance regarding the CIA, FBI etc. But fully SUPPORTING the russian leader in public at the expense of his own security services is simply unbelievable. It absolutely highlights why you do not install a leader that has an alarming amount of shortcomings both in political/diplomatic skill sets and self control over a paper thin ego.
So yes you can say "Why did Putin not attack Ukraine under Trump?" However, the question is completely frivolous and has no basis of fact in the real World.
Absolutely no way was Putin scared of Trump. Only lost MAGAs think like that.

pritch

13th May 2022, 09:14

Someone missed the point, I'm not sure it's R650...

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sRTL5xEjHNQ

The above is a short video, it's a comedian who does two characters - one who is merely rich and one who is 'really rich'.

I think the skit highlights the point R650 was making and why Trump having a lot of debt actually makes sense for a Man in his position.

You are right that 650R wasn't the only one. You missed it too.

The point was not that Trump had a lot of debt. That was background, establishing his normal business model. The point is that he was broke then suddenly started paying cash for golf courses. Which in any normal world is impossible. Factor in that no US banks would have anything to do with him. Deutchbank alone would deal with him, even after he had defaulted on a loan and sued them. You could add too that Deutchbank has been fined for money laundering. Then you can draw your own conclusions.

The only certainty is that your conclusions will be different to mine.

TheDemonLord

13th May 2022, 09:15

Sorry mate you did, this is not a list of crazy dems running for elections. You said there would be heaps, but did not produce any? How could I not be disappointed :no:

I mean if you want Crazy Dems - AOC and Ilhan Omar are more than enough to satisfy that requirement. As I said though, I don't frequent those sites either.

Actually, I disagree. The Guardian is not too bad, no where as bad as msnbc (maddow makes me want to puke, same with lemon.). I'm not drawn to cnn or nbc either.

The problem is that the Guardian wholeheartedly believes in the Intersectional/Woke world view. That means there are certain a priori positions that it holds (Articles of Faith, if you will) - that means it is incapable of viewing various incidents objectively.

To the point where they will champion the indefensible, so long as it's on their 'side'.

Kentucky coal companies lobbied mcconnel to let them dispense with workers rights and the need to pay severance and such. And he gave it to them, which they then exploited. So in this case, yes a republican issue. As for pike river, that was pure bullshit too. Pollies love to let off corporates, it is in their DNA.

Okay, I'll let you have that one - see how generous am I.

You are dangerously close to becoming a full blown radicalized MAGA. I read this and prior as you supporting most of what she does.

Well, hold up a sec - have I ever quoted or specifically cited her in any argument? I think you'll find that I have not - I've only responded when it's been put to me what I think of her.

I listened to her on the Tim Poole podcast - some of the things she says she did that I happen to agree with:

- Forcing recorded votes in Congress (this has many flow-on effects that I happen to agree with)
- Covid-19 mandates and being opposed to them
- Calls out BLM for being Marxists
- Is opposed to the Woke/intersectional world view
- Advocates Gun Rights

She also has appeared to support a lot of conspiracy theories, which I don't agree with - but I also support their right to be held (see my disagreements with Katman, whilst always championing his right to speak).

MJT is in many ways newtonian 'Equal and opposite re-action' to Wokeism. It's just that despite all the things I disagree with her on, at least she respects my property and individual rights.

TheDemonLord

13th May 2022, 09:20

You are right that 650R wasn't the only one. You missed it too.

The point was not that Trump had a lot of debt. That was background, establishing his normal business model. The point is that he was broke then suddenly started paying cash for golf courses. Which in any normal world is impossible. Factor in that no US banks would have anything to do with him. Deutchbank alone would deal with him, even after he had defaulted on a loan and sued them. You could add too that Deutchbank has been fined for money laundering. Then you can draw your own conclusions.

The only certainty is that your conclusions will be differet to mine.

"Broke and suddenly started paying cash for Golf Courses. Which in any normal world is impossible"

Yes, but Trump and any other hyper-rich individual doesn't live in the normal world, do they? Him having minimal liquid assets because all his wealth is tied up in investments isn't the aberration that you are trying to make it out to be.

But let's take everything at your word - it still does not prove the claim that you stated.

TheDemonLord

13th May 2022, 09:42

Well, you are really rolling this line out a lot of late. Presenting it as if that is the sole reason Putin did not invade earlier. Waging war on another nation will be absolutely fraught with many scenarios and logistics to consider.

Well for starters it's a fact that everyone can agree on:

Didn't happen under Trump.

And considering that those on the opposite aisle to myself have been bleating since 2016 that Trump is a Russian Puppet - I get to point this out with wild and gay abandon. It does not fit the narrative.

Now, I've put forward my speculation as to why it didn't happen, including Trump being an unpredictable when it comes to Military intervention - who seems to prefer small, but high profile and precision strikes, followed by the offer of a deal, Biden being very much predictable and Biden's handling of Military affairs being the worst in my lifetime.

Whether you agree on those points is up for debate - but the one point that isn't up for debate is the first one: It didn't happen under Trump and therefore it makes no sense to consider Trump a Russian Puppet if the single biggest even in Eastern european geo-politics didn't happen when the so-called 'puppet' was in office.

It's like Bribing the police commissioner, waiting for him to retire and then going on a crime spree - doesn't make sense.

What Americas response will be will be just one of those factors.
However there is one particular fact that absolutely harpoons your statement - and that is Trumps very own words and actions seen here below.

What an earth about that speech would cause Putin to be fearful and stop an invasion? For the first time in history an American president supported a russian leader over his own many intelligence agencies and he did it on the most public stage possible.

Now you can bleat and whine how Trump had a grievance regarding the CIA, FBI etc. But fully SUPPORTING the russian leader in public at the expense of his own security services is simply unbelievable. It absolutely highlights why you do not install a leader that has an alarming amount of shortcomings both in political/diplomatic skill sets and self control over a paper thin ego.

Let me suggest an alternate speculation:

I think I've reference Konstantin Kisin before - but quick recap - he is a Russian-British comedian and Commentator and was on Question Time in March and discussed the Ukraine invasion, as a native Russian speaker - he has certain insights into the Russian mindset, which I've listened to - both on his Podcast Triggernometry but also on the QT clip. It's his insight that I'm using for the following.

So I want to paint you a picture - Imagine you are living next door to an Angry Karen who is constantly just messing with you and you are constantly worried that some day she'll find the excuse she needs to call the Police or the Council and cost you serious time/effort and money.

That's one particular view that Russia has of NATO.

Now imagine that she moves out and someone else moves in who, for the most part, leaves you be - doesn't interfere much - has the occasional loud party and is a bit odd - but otherwise lets you live your life.

Do you feel threatened by this person? Of course not.

Now imagine that person moves out, and Angry Karen moves back in - but not only that, she has arranged for all her Angry Karen friends to be your neighbours... Now the idea of kicking in one of the doors and forcing them to move out doesn't seem so irrational.

I want to be clear - I'm not justifying what Russia has done, I do not support the War and I think the Ukranians are putting up one hell of a fight that will go down in the history books as one of the great patriotic defences of a homeland.

I also feel it's important to try and understand what the reasoning was from Putin's side. My point being - if he gets along with Trump, he doesn't feel as threatened and can relax, whereas with Biden and the encroachment of NATO (which Russia sees as a threat) he's more likely to lash out. Add in the mix what happened in Afghanistan and Putin is emboldened.

So yes you can say "Why did Putin not attack Ukraine under Trump?" However, the question is completely frivolous and has no basis of fact in the real World.
Absolutely no way was Putin scared of Trump. Only lost MAGAs think like that.

It's not frivolous at all:

It undermines an entire narrative that Trump was a Russian Puppet. And considering how that was the basis for a 6 year long campaign of hatred against him, I think it's very pertinent. Furthermore, those same people who vilified him for that and other reasons aren't as scathing as their condemnation of Biden - as you yourself said 'A bit doddery' I think was the phrase.

I'm just loving pointing to the double-standard.

Was Putin scared of Trump? I don't think Scared is the right word. I think Putin was unsure of how Trump would react - it's a 50/50 coin toss between non-intervention (such as when he declined a retaliatory strike because they had only damaged equipment, but the retaliation strike would kill people) and precision assassination missile strikes. It's the difference between going into a fight with someone and knowing you'll most likely get a bit of a blood nose vs not knowing if you are going to win or they are going to pull out a knife and shank you.

pritch

13th May 2022, 11:13

"Broke and suddenly started paying cash for Golf Courses. Which in any normal world is impossible"

Yes, but Trump and any other hyper-rich individual doesn't live in the normal world, do they? Him having minimal liquid assets because all his wealth is tied up in investments isn't the aberration that you are trying to make it out to be.

But let's take everything at your word - it still does not prove the claim that you stated.

Again for the ones at the back. I didn't say it proved it, I said you could draw you own conclusions.

You have claimed that Trump is a successful businessman. Could you please give me an instance of a successful Trump business. He has a looong list of business failures. His golf courses are all bleeding millions, he has put his newest hotel up for sale 'cause it too is bleeding cash, his other buildings have large areas unleaded. Lets not forget that this genius had multiple casino bakruptcies.

Your turn.

TheDemonLord

13th May 2022, 11:41

Again for the ones at the back. I didn't say it proved it, I said you could draw you own conclusions.

Okay let's be charitable.

The conclusions that can be drawn, even allowing for wild speculation, do not come anywhere close to the conclusions you are trying to draw.

You have claimed that Trump is a successful businessman. Could you please give me an instance of a successful Trump business. He has a looong list of business failures. His golf courses are all bleeding millions, he has put his newest hotel up for sale 'cause it too is bleeding cash, his other buildings have large areas unleaded. Lets not forget that this genius had multiple casino bakruptcies.

Your turn.

He's been a prominent public figure in the Business and Entertainment world for as long as I can remember, he lives the Billionaire lifestyle and despite ups and downs (Venture Capitalist, anyone) he has been able to maintain it during this time.

That he's been able to do it all this time means it's more than pure Luck.

But seeing as you asked for a successful Trump business:

The Apprentice.

Worldwide phenomenon (You're Fired!) and before you go 'oh but Trump didn't own it' (I don't know if he does, but I presume it's owned by the networks) - he was what made it what it was.

And another: Wollman Rink.

onearmedbandit

13th May 2022, 12:59

Again for the ones at the back. I didn't say it proved it, I said you could draw you own conclusions.

No you didn't, but you did state this.

Eric Trump is on record saying that the Trump Organisation could get all of the money it needed from Russia. There is one obvious explanation for this, the Trump Organisation is a Russian money laundering operation. The Russians own Trump.

Which is not based on something said on record, rather by what someone claims was said. So your 'obvious explanation' is based off something that there is no proof of. I may come across like a dog with a bone on this, but you have a habit of making statements that on occasion are revealed to be incorrect but when the facts are brought to your attention you ignore this. I see similar behaviour from the media and (from them) I detest the tactic.

sugilite

13th May 2022, 14:34

But seeing as you asked for a successful Trump business:

The Apprentice.

And another: Wollman Rink.

that is a seriously underwhelming list :laugh:

Well for starters it's a fact that everyone can agree on:

Didn't happen under Trump.
OK, sure it did not happen under trump. Keep the party hats firmly boxed as here is why. All your writings in this post simply confirm Trump was a Putin stooge. Why would Putin invade when trump had America tearing itself apart. Never disturb an enemy when they are doing themselves in. Had Putin invaded it would of taken away from Trumps internal hit job. Destroying the enemy from within is easier than smashing them up front as Putin is finding with the Ukraine.
I speculate Putin probably advised Trump not to withdraw from Afghanistan and let biden botch it up instead, genius! Let the dems predictably destroy themselves, then put the stooge back in to complete the civil war activation. Once the states is out the way, it is Russia vs China for the win.

Now, I've put forward my speculation as to why it didn't happen, including Trump being an unpredictable when it comes to Military intervention - who seems to prefer small, but high profile and precision strikes, followed by the offer of a deal.
I dunno, that small high profile strike on the iranian that hurt trumps feelings with the mean tweets caused him to lose at least 1 vote to biden ;)
And what deal was offered to whom after he had that mean iranian general knocked off?

Add in the mix what happened in Afghanistan and Putin is emboldened.
This is as good a place of any to bring up the fact you side stepped the video showing trump capitulating to putin over his own intelligence agencies on the most public of stages. Shall we file that under indefensible then? Probably best not to mention the word emboldened with trumps tripe being there for all to see huh.

It's the difference between going into a fight with someone and knowing you'll most likely get a bit of a blood nose vs not knowing if you are going to win or they are going to pull out a knife and shank you.

As per the above, the conclusion any eyepatchless person can make after watching that video is that trump took putins shank eagerly down his throat.

sugilite

13th May 2022, 15:35

I mean if you want Crazy Dems - AOC and Ilhan Omar are more than enough to satisfy that requirement. As I said though, I don't frequent those sites either.
They are kinda old news, I want fresh meat, what you got?

MJT is in many ways newtonian 'Equal and opposite re-action' to Wokeism. It's just that despite all the things I disagree with her on, at least she respects my property and individual rights.
I hate to break it to you, but the likes of her respecting your rights only extends to the end of your mutual aligned interests, after that your views are dog meat.

TheDemonLord

13th May 2022, 18:07

that is a seriously underwhelming list :laugh:

I mean, there's more - but on what basis is a worldwide recognised TV Show underwhelming?

OK, sure it did not happen under trump. Keep the party hats firmly boxed as here is why. All your writings in this post simply confirm Trump was a Putin stooge.

Right, so you pay someone off, but wait till they have no authority to do your dastardly deeds? It's a new one - but I'll hear your argument.

Why would Putin invade when trump had America tearing itself apart. Never disturb an enemy when they are doing themselves in. Had Putin invaded it would of taken away from Trumps internal hit job. Destroying the enemy from within is easier than smashing them up front as Putin is finding with the Ukraine.
I speculate Putin probably advised Trump not to withdraw from Afghanistan and let biden botch it up instead, genius! Let the dems predictably destroy themselves, then put the stooge back in to complete the civil war activation. Once the states is out the way, it is Russia vs China for the win.

Trump had America tearing itself apart? All Trump? Not a hyper-partisan media spinning a conspiracy theory for years? Not an irrational hatred of the Man because he dared to not be Woke? Not the constant indoctrination of Grievance Studies in Universities?

It was all Trump? and all at the behest of Putin?

You do make a good point that an external war could galvanize the public (like Bush after September 11th or Thatcher and the Falklands) - however, it doesn't fit with Trump's voter base - they don't want to be wasting American lives in foreign wars - so despite it being well made, it does not fit the other data we have.

I dunno, that small high profile strike on the iranian that hurt trumps feelings with the mean tweets caused him to lose at least 1 vote to biden ;)
And what deal was offered to whom after he had that mean iranian general knocked off?

Ah yes, the 'White Supremecist' who was so upset at the killing of a non-white person...

Now as for Deal - I don't know specifics and all I have is conjecture - but the lack of US Combat Deaths in multiple theatres is a pretty good bit of evidence to infer that he told them 'Fuck around and find out' and then afterwards said 'He fucked around, he found out - anyone else want to try? No? Good"

This is as good a place of any to bring up the fact you side stepped the video showing trump capitulating to putin over his own intelligence agencies on the most public of stages. Shall we file that under indefensible then? Probably best not to mention the word emboldened with trumps tripe being there for all to see huh.

Words vs Actions ;)

But I didn't side step it - I pointed out what the Russian view of the West is (even if I disagree with it) and so bearing that view in mind, it stands to reason that if the 'West' is supporting Russia - then they will see them as less of a threat.

As per the above, the conclusion any eyepatchless person can make after watching that video is that trump took putins shank eagerly down his throat.

I mean - you could have better made case by comparing Trump to Chamberlain and Putin to .... (Censured by Godwin) - however in the context of one of the reasons the Russians gave for their actions in the Ukraine AND the long history of Buffer states in European geopolitics - it's not something you can dismiss out of hand.

They are kinda old news, I want fresh meat, what you got?

I mean Lori Lightfoot has graced us with this pearler:

"To my friends in the LGBTQ+ community – the Supreme Court is coming for us next. This moment has to be a call to arms,"

"We will not surrender our rights without a fight—a fight to victory!"

And you'll note - there's no addendum to do so peacefully and patriotically.... ;)

I hate to break it to you, but the likes of her respecting your rights only extends to the end of your mutual aligned interests, after that your views are dog meat.

Which is absolutely fine by me - she can think my Views are Dog Meat, so long as she respects my rights.

TheDemonLord

13th May 2022, 21:38

So this is specifically for Sugillite - Since you raised MJT - here's a clip from Douglas Murray, you'll want to skip to 1:28:33 (although the rest of it is a great listen IMO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07PZ6fyS_Bo&t=5313s

This is where a Right Wing commentator (one who I enjoy their work) talks specifically about MJT and as Pritch calls it 'RWNJ Conspiracies'

Depending on your views on certain issues, you may give more or less credence to certain parts - but I want to focus on the point that he makes:

"The rise of Right Wing Conspiracies and distrust in institutions isn't without reason".

He also directly calls MJT an Idiot - and has some poignant critique. Now, in other other dalliances often you'll challenge me on a Right Wing source being critical of the Right Wing and despite me having heard critiques of the Right Wing from Right Wing sources, it's often tricky (as most of it is in Podcast form) to provide an example - but here's one for future reference.

I'll admit I'm a bit more on the contrarian internet side that he mentions - it still is an interesting series of points.

sugilite

14th May 2022, 21:37

I mean, there's more - but on what basis is a worldwide recognised TV Show underwhelming?
Very telling that it is not actually a business that was run by Trump lol
For the record, I never seeked to watch the apprentice, but if it happened to be on and I had time, I quite liked it. Though even then I noticed he had a propensity to cut his nose off despite his face, qualities that did not serve him well as president.

Trump had America tearing itself apart? All Trump? Not a hyper-partisan media spinning a conspiracy theory for years? Not an irrational hatred of the Man because he dared to not be Woke? Not the constant indoctrination of Grievance Studies in Universities?

It was all Trump? and all at the behest of Putin?
I did not say all Trump. Lots Trump, not all Trump.
No one knows bar Trump and close confidants how much influence the Russians had, but when no US banks would lend him money and Trumps son is spouting his father was grabbing bunches of russian money, it is not good for that reason alone. I don't give credence to pee tapes and the like, but just being beholden to russians on money alone is not desirable for a US President to have.

Ah yes, the 'White Supremecist' who was so upset at the killing of a non-white person...
Maybe write to him and ask why?

Now as for Deal - I don't know specifics and all I have is conjecture - but the lack of US Combat Deaths in multiple theatres is a pretty good bit of evidence to infer that he told them 'Fuck around and find out' and then afterwards said 'He fucked around, he found out - anyone else want to try? No? Good"
You give way, way to much weight to those actions having that effect, truly.

Words vs Actions ;)

But I didn't side step it - I pointed out what the Russian view of the West is (even if I disagree with it) and so bearing that view in mind, it stands to reason that if the 'West' is supporting Russia - then they will see them as less of a threat.

I mean - you could have better made case by comparing Trump to Chamberlain and Putin to .... (Censured by Godwin) - however in the context of one of the reasons the Russians gave for their actions in the Ukraine AND the long history of Buffer states in European geopolitics - it's not something you can dismiss out of hand.
I think only you could relate what you wrote to somehow being relevant why Trump capitulated to Putin on the World stage :blink:

I mean Lori Lightfoot has graced us with this pearler:
You found one! Though her life story could be interesting as to how she became like she is.

And you'll note - there's no addendum to do so peacefully and patriotically.... ;)
Proven to be ineffective on Jan 6th, maybe if Trump had peppered his looooooong speech with more than one instance of the word?

Which is absolutely fine by me - she can think my Views are Dog Meat, so long as she respects my rights.
She absolutely would not. (imo)

sugilite

14th May 2022, 21:58

So this is specifically for Sugillite - Since you raised MJT - here's a clip from Douglas Murray, you'll want to skip to 1:28:33 (although the rest of it is a great listen IMO)

OK, I skipped to 1:28:33 and I can see where he is coming from, I think there is more to it, but what he says rings true.
Then I went from the start of the video, and listened right through to 1:28 again.
I like him, I barely disagree with anything he says. I like his style, sure he is somewhat intellectually pompous, however that does not make anything he says less true.

I particularly found the BLM part and talking around the racial issues to be very good - on an intellectual level he is absolutely correct. No race, color etc is better or worse than another. And yes, whites are very racially profiled and attacked now. Somethings the other ethnicity's are saying would be deemed incredibly racist if a white person was to say it - I had noticed.
As mentioned on an intellectual level it is 100% correct. The problem is that most people process racial issues at the emotional level.
Case in point: A black person is seeing progress in equalities, despite the bad service the scam BLM movement has provided them. They see the progress, but there is much further to go (I have personally witnessed in the USA) thus they are still shitty and angry about being discriminated against on a daily basis. So they lash out in one form or another, as is actually understandable. so to then have a white person come and intellectualize the situation and tell them on how they should be feeling and acting will never be received well. I do not think I have articulated this point that well, but I hope you get the gist. There will be a cool down period as rights are bestowed and wrongs are addressed and apologized for. This is not to say the whites have to apologize personally for the actions of whites from years gone by, but more say, hey I'm sorry your race went through this, and we hear you are frustrated. From here on forward we want to move forward together for the betterment of all, etc.
The pain the black race have been through in the US should ensure they get given time to process and heal. Part of that will be anger. It would serve the white people to cut them some slack, let them vent and start healing. However, having said that, do not put guilt tripping shit in school books, or violently protest and burn other peoples shit down FFS.

TheDemonLord

15th May 2022, 08:40

Very telling that it is not actually a business that was run by Trump lol
For the record, I never seeked to watch the apprentice, but if it happened to be on and I had time, I quite liked it. Though even then I noticed he had a propensity to cut his nose off despite his face, qualities that did not serve him well as president.

I didn't watch it either (I'm allergic to 'reality' TV....)

Although just for you - I looked - he was the Executive Producer, so I believe that means he ran it (please don't make me look up Showbiz....)

I did not say all Trump. Lots Trump, not all Trump.

See, I think you are over-egging the pudding, If I were to be charitable - I could stretch to a 50/50 split

No one knows bar Trump and close confidants how much influence the Russians had, but when no US banks would lend him money and Trumps son is spouting his father was grabbing bunches of russian money, it is not good for that reason alone. I don't give credence to pee tapes and the like, but just being beholden to russians on money alone is not desirable for a US President to have.

A good look? Let's argue on the presumption this is true - it's not a good look, I can grant you that. But there's at least 3 degrees of separation between the Kremlin and Trump.

Maybe write to him and ask why?

I know the philosophy that drives his utterances. He voted Democrat so they'd create more 'Racially conscious' people.

You give way, way to much weight to those actions having that effect, truly.

Okay, riddle me this: When have the likes of the Taliban agreed to a Cease-fire with the US before then? Remembering this is a group that thinks Suicide Bombing is A-Okay, so it's not like the sanctity of life or the fear of Death is a limiting factor. I'll grant you it's conjecture - but you have to concede - it didn't happen under any other President.

I think only you could relate what you wrote to somehow being relevant why Trump capitulated to Putin on the World stage :blink:

I'll revisit this.

You found one! Though her life story could be interesting as to how she became like she is.

There's more that I've heard - as for her Life Story, honestly? I couldn't care less. She's a hateful racist who has lorded over the destruction of her city and countless deaths of primarily Black Lives.

Proven to be ineffective on Jan 6th, maybe if Trump had peppered his looooooong speech with more than one instance of the word?

you blundered into that carefully laid trap - you've now given me carte blanche to pin (by your standards) any violence done by the left wing on this issue (I think there was a firebombing of a pro-life office recently?) to this rhetorhic.

She absolutely would not. (imo)

Let me put it another way - she's be armed to the teeth and I'd be armed to the teeth and in the interest of avoiding mutual destruction, we'd both leave each other alone to live how we each saw fit.

And as I said - that suits me just fine.

Onto the next Post:

OK, I skipped to 1:28:33 and I can see where he is coming from, I think there is more to it, but what he says rings true.
Then I went from the start of the video, and listened right through to 1:28 again.
I like him, I barely disagree with anything he says. I like his style, sure he is somewhat intellectually pompous, however that does not make anything he says less true.

Intellectual Pompousness is kinda a British national passtime, just look at me :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

I particularly found the BLM part and talking around the racial issues to be very good - on an intellectual level he is absolutely correct. No race, color etc is better or worse than another. And yes, whites are very racially profiled and attacked now. Somethings the other ethnicity's are saying would be deemed incredibly racist if a white person was to say it - I had noticed.
As mentioned on an intellectual level it is 100% correct. The problem is that most people process racial issues at the emotional level.

So - I want to just take pause here - Douglas is one of the people whose views I listen to. I don't agree with him on everything and he is often very much of the centrist position and doesn't indulge in the more meme-y behavior (which I freely admit, I quite like).

However - this is what I'd consider to be approximately the current state of the centre-right libertarian world view, it's pointing to many issues in the current Left wing (which has gone radically left-wing) and going 'this isn't good'.

Case in point: A black person is seeing progress in equalities, despite the bad service the scam BLM movement has provided them. They see the progress, but there is much further to go (I have personally witnessed in the USA) thus they are still shitty and angry about being discriminated against on a daily basis. So they lash out in one form or another, as is actually understandable. so to then have a white person come and intellectualize the situation and tell them on how they should be feeling and acting will never be received well. I do not think I have articulated this point that well, but I hope you get the gist. There will be a cool down period as rights are bestowed and wrongs are addressed and apologized for. This is not to say the whites have to apologize personally for the actions of whites from years gone by, but more say, hey I'm sorry your race went through this, and we hear you are frustrated. From here on forward we want to move forward together for the betterment of all, etc.
The pain the black race have been through in the US should ensure they get given time to process and heal. Part of that will be anger. It would serve the white people to cut them some slack, let them vent and start healing. However, having said that, do not put guilt tripping shit in school books, or violently protest and burn other peoples shit down FFS.

It's a perfectly well made point - I want to offer two observations.

In your previous post, when I was defending Trump trying to work with Putin, you ridiculed it - replace the words 'Black' with 'Russia' and the word 'White' with the 'USA' - does that make the point I was making above clearer? The only difference being that when a Country lashes out...

Secondly - There's one element that I think you've omitted - it's that there is Money, Power and Influence in perpetuating a story of Victimhood. Now, if you believe you are victimized and that there is systemic oppression, then when there is an incident where race could be a factor, an individual will be inclined to view it from that context.

This creates a feedback loop - you believe everything is Racist, so therefore when something happens, it's because of Racism, that justifies the belief that everything is racist etc. ad infinitum.

I've heard people on the spicier end of the Politics also ask the question 'it's been X number of years - how long do you need to start healing?' - and then pointing out that if we look at Black-on-Black crime (the biggest killer of young black men) they are in California, in Chicago, in NYC - all very very very Liberal, 'progressive' places and drawing the conclusion that there's something rotten in the policies by those who profess to be the least racist.

pritch

15th May 2022, 09:25

But seeing as you asked for a successful Trump business:

The Apprentice.

A good attempt on your part. I'm nowhere near as impressed as you though. I regard programmes like that as mindless dross and have never seen it.
Anyway, as you yoursellf mentioned, it wasn't his business and he didn't run it.

And another: Wollman Rink.

LOL. That just comes across as desperate. Isn't that under investigation for tax fraud? Well, to be fair, I guess everything Trump is involved with is under investigation for fraud of one sort or another. Or multiples thereof.

TheDemonLord

15th May 2022, 10:38

A good attempt on your part. I'm nowhere near as impressed as you though. I regard programmes like that as mindless dross and have never seen it.
Anyway, as you yoursellf mentioned, it wasn't his business and he didn't run it.

Regardless of whether you or I watched it, the fact is it was a worldwide show - the catch-phrase 'You're Fired!' became a meme.

I mean, I don't listen to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga, but they are also world famous and cultural icons.

LOL. That just comes across as desperate. Isn't that under investigation for tax fraud? Well, to be fair, I guess everything Trump is involved with is under investigation for fraud of one sort or another. Or multiples thereof.

How is that desperate? It was run-down before Trump offered to renovate it, it's been a fixture of New York, in multiple films set in NY, Trump Inc ran it almost continually since they renovated it (a 6 year period where it was run by someone else, before reverting back to Trump) only to be seized by the Democrat Governor of NY after he got butthurt about Jan 6th.

I was unable to find any mention of the Rink and Fraud. I did see a report on the NYC website about an Audit, where it noted a number of minor issues, but it also noted (and I quote):

"we did not detect any improprieties"

sugilite

15th May 2022, 12:06

See, I think you are over-egging the pudding, If I were to be charitable - I could stretch to a 50/50 split
A substantial percentage, shit lets make it an even more charitable 25% - still a very substantial number!

Okay, riddle me this: When have the likes of the Taliban agreed to a Cease-fire with the US before then? Remembering this is a group that thinks Suicide Bombing is A-Okay, so it's not like the sanctity of life or the fear of Death is a limiting factor. I'll grant you it's conjecture - but you have to concede - it didn't happen under any other President.
Those terms involved the US leaving Afganastan, which is a can trump then kicked down the road. I'm not impressed, why are you?

There's more that I've heard - as for her Life Story, honestly? I couldn't care less. She's a hateful racist who has lorded over the destruction of her city and countless deaths of primarily Black Lives.
I'm still interested how she became that way.

you blundered into that carefully laid trap - you've now given me carte blanche to pin (by your standards) any violence done by the left wing on this issue (I think there was a firebombing of a pro-life office recently?) to this rhetorhic.
Gotcha moment declined. Refer carefully to your recent fruity statement of comparing apples and oranges etc.

Let me put it another way - she's be armed to the teeth and I'd be armed to the teeth and in the interest of avoiding mutual destruction, we'd both leave each other alone to live how we each saw fit.

She would set about destroying you in the media at the very least.

So - I want to just take pause here - Douglas is one of the people whose views I listen to. I don't agree with him on everything and he is often very much of the centrist position and doesn't indulge in the more meme-y behavior (which I freely admit, I quite like).

However - this is what I'd consider to be approximately the current state of the centre-right libertarian world view, it's pointing to many issues in the current Left wing (which has gone radically left-wing) and going 'this isn't good'.
Actually, my experience is even when I' agree with you, 99% of the time you will then go on to tell me my reasoning for agreeing with you is completely wrong :rolleyes:
Let us just from this point on just assume there is no one on earth you would consistently agree with, well maybe besides your wife on health and safety grounds :msn-wink:

In your previous post, when I was defending Trump trying to work with Putin, you ridiculed it - replace the words 'Black' with 'Russia' and the word 'White' with the 'USA' - does that make the point I was making above clearer? The only difference being that when a Country lashes out...
TDS at it's finest, you framing Trumps capitulation as "working with Putin" must surely attract some sort of award - surely!

Secondly - There's one element that I think you've omitted - it's that there is Money, Power and Influence in perpetuating a story of Victimhood. Now, if you believe you are victimized and that there is systemic oppression, then when there is an incident where race could be a factor, an individual will be inclined to view it from that context.
There is that aspect too, the ideas I was floating was in course from the view that both parties in this would work together with honor and dignity. Two concepts sadly absent in nearly all aspects of modern life.

This creates a feedback loop - you believe everything is Racist, so therefore when something happens, it's because of Racism, that justifies the belief that everything is racist etc. ad infinitum.

I've heard people on the spicier end of the Politics also ask the question 'it's been X number of years - how long do you need to start healing?' - and then pointing out that if we look at Black-on-Black crime (the biggest killer of young black men) they are in California, in Chicago, in NYC - all very very very Liberal, 'progressive' places and drawing the conclusion that there's something rotten in the policies by those who profess to be the least racist.
Well a slippery slope here, why do blacks kill so many other blacks? It is almost as if a repressed people with no clear path to rise above the repression and are stuck in a quagmire of misery, poverty and violence end up fighting among themselves. I'm shocked - not.

TheDemonLord

15th May 2022, 12:36

Those terms involved the US leaving Afganastan, which is a can trump then kicked down the road. I'm not impressed, why are you?

If the US is in Afghanistan, then it needs to be building an Empire, like the British did.
If they aren't doing that, then they should pull out. The bit that I'm impressed with is that a deal was done and the Taliban appeared to abide by it.

I'm still interested how she became that way.

If I say 'Radical Left Wing politics' and 'it's okay to hate your oppressor' - does that explain it? But even then, I don't grant a lot of leeway to awful people who do awful things who then blame it on awful things being done to them.

Gotcha moment declined. Refer carefully to your recent fruity statement of comparing apples and oranges etc.

See, from my perspective - I'm happy to treat what she said as Rhetorhic. I think what she said was inflammatory, but I don't think she should be charged with incitement.

However, that's my standards - whereas you've been very clear on your view on Jan 6th, and so I'm using your standards.

She would set about destroying you in the media at the very least.

Like multiple people on here haven't tried the same, yet I'm still here, still arguing and still with no infractions for many a year. The proposal is acceptable to me.

Actually, my experience is even when I' agree with you, 99% of the time you will then go on to tell me my reasoning for agreeing with you is completely wrong :rolleyes:
Let us just from this point on just assume there is no one on earth you would consistently agree with, well maybe besides your wife on health and safety grounds :msn-wink:

Hahahahahaha nah I definitely argue with Her, It's like playing with fire - it's more fun when there's a risk of getting Burnt :D

TDS at it's finest, you framing Trumps capitulation as "working with Putin" must surely attract some sort of award - surely!

Work with or Work against. It's really the options here. And to my mind there's a number of ancillary facts that show one produced a better state of world affairs than the other

There is that aspect too, the ideas I was floating was in course from the view that both parties in this would work together with honor and dignity. Two concepts sadly absent in nearly all aspects of modern life.

That requires both groups to have something shared.

Like the idea that America is a good place/idea - not perfect, not that it has faltered in adhering to it's ideals - but that the ideals themselves are good.

When you remove that shared sense of identity and loyalty you can't work together. This sense is something that predominantly left-wing academia has been undermining for Decades (see Orwells quote about the self-loathing intelligencia)

Well a slippery slope here, why do blacks kill so many other blacks? It is almost as if a repressed people with no clear path to rise above the repression and are stuck in a quagmire of misery, poverty and violence end up fighting among themselves. I'm shocked - not.

There's been plenty of other Repressed groups - Indians, Japanese (WW2 Camps anyone), The Irish etc. who have not succumbed.

I feel you are doing a chicken and egg - let's add a few things in: Welfare systems that inadvertently incentivized single motherhood. The long history of Marxism in Black Nationalist movements - remember when BLM said it was against the Nuclear Family?

Telling an entire group they are the oppressed in the Marxist Oppressor/Oppressed dichotomy and removing Fathers out of the equation - that guarantees Poverty, it guarantees angry young men with no positive male role model.

I put it to you that those 2 factors - Lack of Fathers and the oppressed narrative is far more causal than the other factors (and creates those factors that you cite).

sugilite

15th May 2022, 16:35

If the US is in Afghanistan, then it needs to be building an Empire, like the British did.
If they aren't doing that, then they should pull out. The bit that I'm impressed with is that a deal was done and the Taliban appeared to abide by it.
The Deal: We are leaving as soon as we can, if that is ok with you guys?"
Very impressive.

See, from my perspective - I'm happy to treat what she said as Rhetorhic. I think what she said was inflammatory, but I don't think she should be charged with incitement.

However, that's my standards - whereas you've been very clear on your view on Jan 6th, and so I'm using your standards.
I'm equally happy for her to be charged and judged in a court, same for Trump obviously.

Hahahahahaha nah I definitely argue with Her, It's like playing with fire - it's more fun when there's a risk of getting Burnt :D

Just pray she does not vote with her feet one day, hard to argue with that.

There's been plenty of other Repressed groups - Indians, Japanese (WW2 Camps anyone), The Irish etc. who have not succumbed.
No where near the same length of time or intensity, and not many of the ethnicity's you mention were unwilling immigrants.

I feel you are doing a chicken and egg - let's add a few things in: Welfare systems that inadvertently incentivized single motherhood. The long history of Marxism in Black Nationalist movements - remember when BLM said it was against the Nuclear Family?
We have established BLM are frauds in it for the donations and are not helping their people at all, so why mention them and the Marxists? Was the welfare system setup and administered by white dominated governments?

Telling an entire group they are the oppressed in the Marxist Oppressor/Oppressed dichotomy and removing Fathers out of the equation - that guarantees Poverty, it guarantees angry young men with no positive male role model.
So not telling them that would have solved all their problems huh?

pritch

15th May 2022, 19:35

the catch-phrase 'You're Fired!' became a meme.

Not where I live. I've heard it of course but a "meme"? Maybe somewhere else.

He had nothing to do with running the business he was the "star".
"When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything."

I was unable to find any mention of the Rink and Fraud. I did see a report on the NYC website about an Audit, where it noted a number of minor issues, but it also noted (and I quote):

"we did not detect any improprieties"

From memory. The rink was managed by a relative of an employee of the Trump Organisation, and some of the payment arrangements were considered ummm unorthodox?
The same sort of unorthodox as some payment arrangements within the Trump organisation.

Anyhoo it does seem you found a successful business which was what I asked for. Well done.

onearmedbandit

15th May 2022, 20:06

It was even widely used against Trump during and after his presidency, let alone its widespread use before he entered into politics.

husaberg

15th May 2022, 21:58

It was even widely used against Trump doing and after his presidency, let alone its widespread use before he entered into politics.

Doing........

onearmedbandit

16th May 2022, 01:09

My mistake, 'during'.

TheDemonLord

16th May 2022, 10:05

The Deal: We are leaving as soon as we can, if that is ok with you guys?"
Very impressive.

"And don't kill any of the infidels that are on your sacred land in the meantime"

It's that part that is the impressive part, because they didn't.

I'm equally happy for her to be charged and judged in a court, same for Trump obviously.

And... If the same standard was applied to each side, even if I disagreed with the standard - I would still consider that fair.

Just pray she does not vote with her feet one day, hard to argue with that.

Put it this way, she puts up with me - and I'm sure you can infer that during the over 10 years we've been together, I've given her more than enough ammunition if she wanted to, but here we are.

No where near the same length of time or intensity, and not many of the ethnicity's you mention were unwilling immigrants.

Length of time sure - Intensity - maybe not the same, but I'd put the persecution of the Japanese Americans in WW2 as being in the same game (if not the same league)

And the unwillingness only goes up to 1808.

We have established BLM are frauds in it for the donations and are not helping their people at all, so why mention them and the Marxists? Was the welfare system setup and administered by white dominated governments?

Why mention the Marxists? Firstly because it's funny to point out how all African Marxist organizations descend into kleptocracy - but more importantly because they have a very long history in the Black Community.

And you can compare the 2 most prominent figures in the Civil Rights movement - MLK and Malcolm X - One made an appeal on the individualist values of the West - "Judged by the content of their character, not by the colour of their skin" - a quote that has stood the test of time because it is grounded in deeply shared ideals.

The other called for revolution, wailed against Capitalism etc and his legacy is the Black Panthers.

I'll be clear that Malcolm X never said he was a Socialist of a Marxist, but there's a fair amount of evidence that in his final years, he was accepting the basic axioms - and the revolutionary group founded as a response to his death - well, they are Marxist to the core.

Getting back to the White American Government - I mean sure, shall we open the can of worms of the Dixie-crats, Jim Crowe, the Origins of Planned Parenthood and LBJ?

Cause you'll notice a particular political slant....

So not telling them that would have solved all their problems huh?

Not telling people they are oppressed is a good start - but an even better story to tell people is the hero's story:

"The world is not perfect, bad things might happen to you - but you have it within you to strive and overcome and be the best version of yourself"

There's a reason for the existence of the Mono-Myth/hero's journy and it being the basis for the most popular stories.

TheDemonLord

16th May 2022, 10:10

Not where I live. I've heard it of course but a "meme"? Maybe somewhere else.

He had nothing to do with running the business he was the "star".

As above - apparently he was the executive producer and it most definitely was a Meme in the mid/late 2000s.

"When you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything."

Almost like Groupies are a well established thing.

From memory. The rink was managed by a relative of an employee of the Trump Organisation, and some of the payment arrangements were considered ummm unorthodox?
The same sort of unorthodox as some payment arrangements within the Trump organisation.

Anyhoo it does seem you found a successful business which was what I asked for. Well done.

Glad we agree on the last part.

sugilite

16th May 2022, 11:54

Why mention the Marxists? Firstly because it's funny to point out how all African Marxist organizations descend into kleptocracy - but more importantly because they have a very long history in the Black Community.

I'm back to being busy, so it is parapet text time on just a few points. Just assume I did not agree with very much of the rest of your posts I'm not responding too.

Had you considered the possibility that the black race was actively looking for a different political system to the one that had oppressed them and let them down badly on so many levels. Is it that surprising?
The fact the cause continually gets hijacked pretty much sums up what happens in most political ideologies, if not nearly all. Human greed sets in and the bullshit starts.

TheDemonLord

16th May 2022, 12:17

I'm back to being busy, so it is parapet text time on just a few points. Just assume I did not agree with very much of the rest of your posts I'm not responding too.

Hahahahaha - shall I quote myself and provide your own rebuttal to save time? :D

Had you considered the possibility that the black race was actively looking for a different political system to the one that had oppressed them and let them down badly on so many levels. Is it that surprising?

That's one possibility. There are others, such as Marxist thought being particularly attractive to anyone who considers themselves to be oppressed. There's also the intellectual traditions within the Black Community: Du Bois (who founded the NAACP) is a notable example. The later writings of Malcolm X, railing against Capitalism and calling for Revolution are another.

Final thought - is that there is an aspect to African American society that makes it susceptible to collectivist thinking, which is the foundation of Marxist theory - the In Group vs the Out Group - East Coast vs West Coast, Bloods vs Crips, Oppressor vs Oppressed etc. I don't know why - nor am I implying any particular reason - only that there does seem to be a higher acceptance and to greater degrees of it.

The fact the cause continually gets hijacked pretty much sums up what happens in most political ideologies, if not nearly all. Human greed sets in and the bullshit starts.

Hijacked? No. The jealousy is baked into it from the start, which is why it never ends up anywhere but destruction and bloodshed.

pritch

16th May 2022, 14:53

It was even widely used against Trump during and after his presidency, let alone its widespread use before he entered into politics.

Use during his residency would have been justified. He had unusually high turnover in his administration.

sugilite

19th May 2022, 09:43

One scumbag down, just another 20 to 30 to go :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUEWPvf5h0E

sugilite

20th May 2022, 12:11

Trump even calling mail in votes for Republican run primaries fraudulent!
https://thehill.com/news/state-watch/3492930-trump-urges-oz-to-declare-victory-despite-pennsylvania-senate-race-being-too-close-to-call/

Trump is determined to undermine democracy by crying fraud at every single election result he does not like. This does incalculable damage to democracy.
I'm sure our resident Trump lovin fan will somehow gloss over this fact :rolleyes:

Yet more Trump admin coruption, so a few people died? No worries, the corps made more money - Weeeeeeeee!
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/12/meatpacking-industry-trump-downplay-covid-threat

At least some groups are trying to defend against actual electoral fraud - good luck with that!
https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3491426-pro-trump-electors-in-wisconsin-hit-with-first-of-its-kind-lawsuit/

And here we have a candidate surely worthy of joining the BLM's top crookery ranks, but deciding instead to run with the big dogs of fraud - the republican party ;)
https://www.businessinsider.com/herschel-walker-senate-election-georgia-money-finance-2022-5

F5 Dave

20th May 2022, 13:28

I think you will find those deaths were really the flu and they were all 80yr old pensioners that shouldn't have been working and deaths from falling in the meat grinder (daily occurance I heard) were recorded as covid.

And it's not real or just the sniffles.

How did I get sucked in again. Best I unsubscribe. Again.

sugilite

22nd May 2022, 10:57

pritch

22nd May 2022, 12:34

One scumbag down, just another 20 to 30 to go :D

I blame the home schooling. His whole background was a series of lies. He popped up in my Twitter feed after he lost the primary so I sent him this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9QEAtcz3o8

In recent times he was caught twice trying to take a loaded pistol onto a 'plane. He has been caught multiple times driving without a licence. Maybe now he'll get treated like everybody else.

It won't be long before he makes the news.

TheDemonLord

26th May 2022, 07:24

Well I'm shocked, Clinton authorized a political hit job on the other team :shit:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-reaction-hillary-clinton-spread-russia-allegations-media
Trump told Fox News Digital that the entire Russia investigation is "one of the greatest political scandals in history," and that he will "never" get his "reputation fully back."
Never mind the I'll give you your money ukraine when you give me hunter biden dirt to use :laugh: Apologies in the mail for the fake birtherism attack on Obama is it? Don't worry Donald, your well earned reputation is very much still with you.

""I had to fight them off," Trump said. "And if we had real leadership, instead of people like Mitch McConnell, they would do something about it. And guys like Bill Barr. They would have done something about it."
Yeah never mind Barr was the one that kicked the investigation off that uncovered these unsurprising discoveries. Just yet more proof Trump is a thin skinned wannabe dictator out to destroy democracy and throw anyone under the bus that is not in lockstep with him. Indeed, to gain a Trump endorsement, one must declare the 2020 election as being "stolen". Not one of these republicans that have gone all in to get that endorsement is worthy of leading, nor can be trusted to do the right and just thing. They have compromised their integrity before even getting out of the starting blocks.

While some here fret over marixym taking control in the USA, the gains they have made while the Dems are in Government - has been negligible. However, right there in plain sight is Trump deeply undermining democracy. Decrying every election result he does not like as being fraudulent - even the republican run primary ones. The far lefts marxisym march to power has not even left the couch, while the far rights demolition of democracy has the finish line in sight.

American politics is rotten to the core, and more evidence of that is presented day after day.

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/20/politics/hillary-clinton-robby-mook-fbi/index.html

https://nypost.com/2022/05/23/fbi-told-agents-trump-russia-data-source-was-from-doj-not-clinton-tied-lawyer/

So, now that it's becoming increasingly clear that the whole Russia Hoax was created by Clinton, I think I've got *quite* a few receipts that I'd like to get some refunds on, just the last 6 or so years of defending Trump against what I think we can now call a Hoax.

I think this video best encapsulated my feelings at the moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpVudMngg2c

Now that I've had my 10 seconds of well-deserved gloating, I want to make a serious point to all the Trump detractors.

I've been steadfast in my support of Trump, I like him, I don't like or approve of everything he does, but on the whole, I like him.

You don't have to like Trump, nor would I insist that you like him - but I want to ask this question:

"If your opinion of Trump was initially clouded by your belief in a co-ordinated hoax against him, and that belief tainted all your subsequent opinions about him and his Presidency - is there any among you that will honestly re-assess your views?"

And the follow-up question:

"Will you re-asses your trust in a set of institutions, both Governmental, Media and alike that continually lied to you for all these years?"

Berries

26th May 2022, 09:49

You don't have to like Trump, nor would I insist that you like him - but I want to ask this question:

"If your opinion of Trump was initially clouded by your belief in a co-ordinated hoax against him, and that belief tainted all your subsequent opinions about him and his Presidency - is there any among you that will honestly re-assess your views?"

And the follow-up question:

"Will you re-asses your trust in a set of institutions, both Governmental, Media and alike that continually lied to you for all these years?"
My view of him was made up long before someone thought it would be quite a laugh to suggest he be a politician.

Kickaha

26th May 2022, 17:53

My view of him was made up long before someone thought it would be quite a laugh to suggest he be a politician.

So was mine, I thought he was a prize cunt long before he became president and nothing he has done since would alter that view

onearmedbandit

26th May 2022, 19:46

nerrrd

27th May 2022, 08:18

Same.

I watched a few episodes of the Apprentice way back at the beginning, that pretty much formed my opinion of Donald Trump being an awful person.

Maybe he cultivated that persona for the show, but he certainly carried it through into the Presidency, so I suspect he's really like that.

I enjoyed the various 'scandals' during his Presidency as they provided plenty of material for their hard-working comedians. I don't have a lot of sympathy for him in that regard, he baited the media right from the beginning, much more so than previous candidates have, so as far as I'm concerned he's reaping what he sowed.

His inability to accept defeat though, I have to draw a line there. That moves him from 'buffoon' to 'super villain' in my mind.

TheDemonLord

27th May 2022, 08:33

I do believe I'm justified in posting this...

https://gumlet.assettype.com/afkgaming%2Fimport%2Fmedia%2Fimages%2F64144-5f5d9b481fe5863c196d3441322ab983.jpeg

James Deuce

27th May 2022, 08:51

I like him. He was great in "Home Alone."

sugilite

27th May 2022, 14:13

"If your opinion of Trump was initially clouded by your belief in a co-ordinated hoax against him, and that belief tainted all your subsequent opinions about him and his Presidency - is there any among you that will honestly re-assess your views?"

And the follow-up question:

"Will you re-asses your trust in a set of institutions, both Governmental, Media and alike that continually lied to you for all these years?"

Like all the others that have since posted, I too had made my assessments on Trump before he came down the escalator. The thing that made me most decide he was an "A" class arsehole was when it was reveled by many small contractors that he often did not pay them when he thought they did not have the resources to fight back. That told me everything I needed to know about his integrity.
It is Trump for Trump all the way every day. Always has been - democrat before, republican after that, and MAGA agitator thereafter.

Many years ago I decided the reported news can never be relied upon as every news story I witnessed with my own eyes never matched up with the report.

As for Russia, he backed putin on the world stage. There can only be two reasons.
1. He was pissy at the CIA and FBI = Not mature enough to be a President.
2. (much more likely) Putin has leverage over him - extremely likely to be money since one of his sons said Trump had extensive russian loans. = Should not be President.
The bs you rolled out about it being some sort of "deal" was the single most desperate trump defense I have yet seen from you - which is really saying something.

Without a doubt Trumps single biggest super power is to somehow get otherwise intelligent people to prostitute their values to defend and support him.

onearmedbandit

27th May 2022, 15:35

The thing that made me most decide he was an "A" class arsehole was when it was reveled by many small contractors that he often did not pay them when he thought they did not have the resources to fight back. That told me everything I needed to know about his integrity.

It was this behaviour that made me think that he was a prized prick too.

Berries

27th May 2022, 16:28

I do believe I'm justified in posting this...

Our work here is done.

Although a quick skim of the earlier posts in this thread found this nugget -

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/svrxYLvJYto" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

TheDemonLord

27th May 2022, 17:57

Like all the others that have since posted, I too had made my assessments on Trump before he came down the escalator. The thing that made me most decide he was an "A" class arsehole was when it was reveled by many small contractors that he often did not pay them when he thought they did not have the resources to fight back.

Many years ago I decided the reported news can never be relied upon as every news story I witnessed with my own eyes never matched up with the report.

From Whence did these revelations come? Purely Altruistic reporter, driven by a purity of conscious and a desire for investigative journalism no doubt...

Well, let's see about that....

Since everyone here is saying they made up their minds well before his presidential run - I did a little Google-Fu, and wouldn't you know - a whole slew of articles published after June 2015 (the earliest I found was November 2015) and most around 2016.

Articles from Anytime (https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+didn%27t+pay+contractors&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALiCzsZy-ieIDyLnrdWHj6DNLHmotYmtSA:1653630252005&tbas=0&source=lnt&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjBvYre_P73AhXvSmwGHRI1DzwQpwV6BAgBEBQ&biw=1536&bih=739&dpr=1.25)

Yet not one mention of this before June 2015. (https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+didn%27t+pay+contractors&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALiCzsbRxfMCZq2dxYBQxqUbKq-91mPO4w%3A1653630041863&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A6%2F4%2F2015&tbm=)

If the reasons given in this thread for the negative opinion of Trump are to be believed, then they are absolutely driven by hit pieces from the same group of lying smear merchants and propagandists that sold the world the Trump Russia Hoax for years. And as the timestamps show - not before his Presidential run.

As for Russia, he backed putin on the world stage. There can only be two reasons.
1. He was pissy at the CIA and FBI = Not mature enough to be a President.
2. (much more likely) Putin has leverage over him - extremely likely to be money since one of his sons said Trump had extensive russian loans. = Should not be President.
The bs you rolled out about it being some sort of "deal" was the single most desperate trump defense I have yet seen from you - which is really saying something.

I think there's a lot more options than only 2. And certainly trying to keep the peace with Russia isn't as far a stretch as you make it out to be.

Although, now we know the Russia Hoax was full BS, I think he has ever right to be annoyed at a clearly biased government agency that vindictively investigated him over lies for the better part of 3 years.

Without a doubt Trumps single biggest super power is to somehow get otherwise intelligent people to prostitute their values to defend and support him.

Okay riddle me this - Some of us, Well - let's be honest - Me...

have been pretty consistent since around 2016 that the 'Muh Russia Hoax' had the same smell of authenticity as the WMD Dossier did for the Iraq war.

If I've been consistently right about that, then is it possible that I'm right about other things (for which we don't have the super concrete definitive proof), for the same reasons?

husaberg

27th May 2022, 18:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2SFo3TkvhM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv9sH5ptgRA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uftIR_L_iyo

Michael Cohen: Trump said ‘black people are too stupid to vote for me’

onearmedbandit

27th May 2022, 19:23

husaberg

27th May 2022, 19:35

Well I'll be the first to put my hand up and admit my memory failed me, I was certain I had heard those stories during his time with The Apprentice show.

trump was revealed as a fool in 2011 over the birther issue.....

https://youtu.be/7YGITlxfT6s?t=723
12.06

"Donald Trump often appears on Fox, which is ironic, cause the Fox often appears on Donald Trump's head"

An ‘extremely credible source’ has called my office and told me that @ barackobama’s birth certificate is a fraud.— August 6, 2012

Lets fight like hell and stop this great and disgusting injustice! The world is laughing at us.— One of a series of tweets Trump issued on Election Night, as it became clear the Obama had won a second term, November 7, 2012

TheDemonLord

27th May 2022, 20:39

Well I'll be the first to put my hand up and admit my memory failed me, I was certain I had heard those stories during his time with The Apprentice show. Mind you, in my defense when I hear people say '20yrs ago' I still think 1980's.

I still have trouble remembering that someone born AFTER 2000 is entirely possible to be a full adult...

One of my many quirks is that when it comes to arguing on the Internet, I've got a freakishly good memory. Just don't ask me what I did yesterday....

Jokes aside though - this is one aspect of why I'm such a fervent defender - because as I've been able to demonstrate, most of the opinions here come from the same corrupt source as all the other lies about him.

Does that mean that everyone should think as highly of him as I do? Of course not! Even though I like him, there's plenty to fairly critique him on, there's plenty of character traits to dislike. He is a very polarizing figure.

I just want fairness.

F5 Dave

27th May 2022, 21:27

If it were a dyno competition of brainpower and you rated Obama at 100hp, you'd measure Trump at about 3.9. About as smart as dishwater.

Berries

28th May 2022, 08:50

I am a lot more inclusive now after my compulsory subconscious diversity training over the last year or so but to be honest the fact he married a bloke put me off.

pritch

28th May 2022, 09:26

If it were a dyno competition of brainpower and you rated Obama at 100hp, you'd measure Trump at about 3.9. About as smart as dishwater.

Trump is not actually intellectually handicapped, but neither is he much above that level. Additionally according to his niece, a psychologist, he has multiple untreated mental disorders.

There are any number of stories about his unpaid bills, including to lawyers and to Deutchbank. The architect who designed the ballroom at Mar a Lago and the person who supplied Trump with grand pianos have sad tales to tell. When his newest hotel opened, the one in DC that used to be a post office and which is now for sale, there were a number of "mechanics liens" on it. The liens meant that there were unpaid bills and until they were cleared the building counld not be sold or used as security for a loan.

During the presidential debates Clinton mentioned his record of unpaid bills. Trump didn't deny it, he just mumbled that perhaps they didn't do a very good job.

R650R

28th May 2022, 10:53

I like him. He was great in "Home Alone."

It’s a wonder they haven’t edited him out like other political edits Hollywood has made of old films.
Funny that he was in a kids movie if so many people already hated him before he was president?????

TheDemonLord

28th May 2022, 11:37

I am a lot more inclusive now after my compulsory subconscious diversity training over the last year or so but to be honest the fact he married a bloke put me off.

Diversity training - another Marxist rort with zero academic backing.

In fact, the only data on it we do have - is if you tell people to start paying attention to things like Race, Sexuality etc. that people get more discriminatory.

TheDemonLord

28th May 2022, 11:42

Trump is not actually intellectually handicapped, but neither is he much above that level. Additionally according to his niece, a psychologist, he has multiple untreated mental disorders.

After watching the almost entirety of the Johnny Depp trial: Goldwater rule.

There are any number of stories about his unpaid bills, including to lawyers and to Deutchbank. The architect who designed the ballroom at Mar a Lago and the person who supplied Trump with grand pianos have sad tales to tell. When his newest hotel opened, the one in DC that used to be a post office and which is now for sale, there were a number of "mechanics liens" on it. The liens meant that there were unpaid bills and until they were cleared the building counld not be sold or used as security for a loan.

More Smear pieces from the same Smear merchants who misrepresent reality and omit certain details.

During the presidential debates Clinton mentioned his record of unpaid bills. Trump didn't deny it, he just mumbled that perhaps they didn't do a very good job.

Wait - so that makes it sound like Trump has a team that sits below him and deals with the contractors and sub-contractors - and if their work isn't up to standard, his team (not him personally) withholds payment.

Sounds pretty standard.

nerrrd

28th May 2022, 12:15

ItÂ’s a wonder they havenÂ’t edited him out like other political edits Hollywood has made of old films.
Funny that he was in a kids movie if so many people already hated him before he was president?????

That was way before he was on the Apprentice. I wouldn't say we're a representative sample of all the people either, as many did and still do support him. I wouldn't say I hate the guy, either.

I liked the idea of electing him President as a middle finger from the US middle class to the corporate establishment exporting all the good jobs overseas or replacing them with internet based services. What never made sense to me is why they thought he was the right man for the job. But then I guess it's always Hobson's choice with their system.

husaberg

28th May 2022, 14:48

Trump is not actually intellectually handicapped, but neither is he much above that level. Additionally according to his niece, a psychologist, he has multiple untreated mental disorders.

There are any number of stories about his unpaid bills, including to lawyers and to Deutchbank. The architect who designed the ballroom at Mar a Lago and the person who supplied Trump with grand pianos have sad tales to tell. When his newest hotel opened, the one in DC that used to be a post office and which is now for sale, there were a number of "mechanics liens" on it. The liens meant that there were unpaid bills and until they were cleared the building counld not be sold or used as security for a loan.

During the presidential debates Clinton mentioned his record of unpaid bills. Trump didn't deny it, he just mumbled that perhaps they didn't do a very good job.

Gee trumps i also guess trumps own depositions and all the witness statements must be false as well about him hiring and then not paying illegal workers as well.

https://time.com/4465744/donald-trump-undocumented-workers/

For 36 years, Trump has denied knowingly using undocumented workers to demolish the building that would be replaced with Trump Tower in 1980. After Senator Marco Rubio raised the issue of undocumented Polish workers during a Republican primary debate this year, Trump described himself as removed from the problem. “I hire a contractor. The contractor then hires the subcontractor,” he said. “They have people. I don’t know. I don’t remember, that was so many years ago, 35 years ago.”

But thousands of pages of documents from the case, including reams of testimony and sworn depositions reviewed by TIME, tell a different story. Kept for more than a decade in 13 boxes in a federal judiciary storage unit in Missouri, the documents contain testimony that Trump sought out the Polish workers when he saw them on another job, instigated the creation of the company that paid them and negotiated the hours they would work. The papers contain testimony that Trump repeatedly toured the site where the men were working, directly addressed them about pay problems and even promised to pay them himself, which he eventually did.

The documents show that after things got ugly over unpaid wages, Trump sought Sullivan’s advice on the workers and their immigration status. At one point, a lawyer for the Poles testified, Trump threatened, through his own lawyer, to call the Immigration and Naturalization Service and have the workers deported. And when the Labor Department launched a probe of the Polish laborers, Trump again called Sullivan for help, asking him to meet the federal investigator at Trump’s office

Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/

Berries

28th May 2022, 14:50

Funny that he was in a kids movie if so many people already hated him before he was president?????
Wasn't his mate Epstein the producer?

TheDemonLord

28th May 2022, 15:07

https://time.com/4465744/donald-trump-undocumented-workers/

"August 25, 2016 6:41 AM EDT "

Funny that.

More Smears by more Smear merchants.

I mean, they dredged up allegations from 35 years ago, and when that didn't work, they invented the Russia Hoax, And yet despite being proven liars - some people still think they are somehow trustworthy.

pete376403

29th May 2022, 07:50

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/20/politics/hillary-clinton-robby-mook-fbi/index.html

https://nypost.com/2022/05/23/fbi-told-agents-trump-russia-data-source-was-from-doj-not-clinton-tied-lawyer/

So, now that it's becoming increasingly clear that the whole Russia Hoax was created by Clinton, I think I've got *quite* a few receipts that I'd like to get some refunds on, just the last 6 or so years of defending Trump against what I think we can now call a Hoax.

To which I would respond - https://www.thebulwark.com/the-alfa-bank-hoax-hoax/

TheDemonLord

29th May 2022, 08:04

To which I would respond - https://www.thebulwark.com/the-alfa-bank-hoax-hoax/

Let's have a look....

Oh, first hurdle:

He was previously political director for Republican Voters Against Trump, communications director for Jeb Bush 2016, and spokesman for the Republican National Committee.

So no bias there then.

But as it happens, lets look at the claims and oh dear - Remember when I said that the basis was illegally obtained info, specifically DNS Server logs? Well - the article confirms it. And using Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine, everything that was gained improperly based on illegal evidence is tainted and to be rejected.

But the biggest point is this:

The MAGA crowd’s big gotcha is that Hillary was okay with her campaign sharing rumors of questionable veracity about her political opponent with reporters and then tweeting the published information.

One persons 'Questionable Veracity' is another mans 'Lies'.

So, as per the Article - Hilaries campaign lied to the Media (and therefore to the FBI) about Trump/Russia.

The Article itself proves the claim is attests to debunk.

The rest just comes across as Butthurt Copium from a NeoCon.

Kickaha

29th May 2022, 09:23

Remember when I said that the basis was illegally obtained info, specifically DNS Server logs? Well - the article confirms it. And using Fruit of the Poisonous Tree doctrine, everything that was gained improperly based on illegal evidence is tainted and to be rejected.

It doesn't mean it isn't true

sugilite

29th May 2022, 10:44

From Whence did these revelations come? Purely Altruistic reporter, driven by a purity of conscious and a desire for investigative journalism no doubt...

Well, let's see about that....

Since everyone here is saying they made up their minds well before his presidential run - I did a little Google-Fu, and wouldn't you know - a whole slew of articles published after June 2015 (the earliest I found was November 2015) and most around 2016.

If the reasons given in this thread for the negative opinion of Trump are to be believed, then they are absolutely driven by hit pieces from the same group of lying smear merchants and propagandists that sold the world the Trump Russia Hoax for years. And as the timestamps show - not before his Presidential run.
It is almost like his announcement for the presidential run brought along much closer scrutiny of his practices - it is almost like a causal effect!

I think there's a lot more options than only 2. And certainly trying to keep the peace with Russia isn't as far a stretch as you make it out to be.
The other post where I say Trumps super power is to get other people to prostitute their values in order to support him - yeah this. Had Biden made the same statement, you would of been spouting "largest capitulation and loss of soft power in living memory" and so forth.

One of the things I cannot help but notice with your imbalance, is that you fret deeply about the march of marxism coming in to destroy your beloved capitalist flavor of democracy. Yet you have a breathtaking blind spot to Trumps extremely effective dismantling of it through breeding deep distrust in one of it's major underpinnings - that being free and fair elections. Just last week he was decrying a republican run primary election as being fraudulent!!! So his now standard play book is declare fraud at any result he does not like. No wonder a massive portion of the US voting population have now lost faith in the voting system. As an update, Dr Oz has now claimed victory in that race, just as Trump commanded him to do. So if you are looking for genuine deserved credit for Trump. there it is - he is successfully dismantling democracy on your watch but all you want to do is complain Trump is not getting a fair go. Incredible.

TheDemonLord

29th May 2022, 11:33

It doesn't mean it isn't true

It also doesn't mean that it is.

And more importantly: It can't be relied upon to be true.

R650R

29th May 2022, 11:59

Wasn't his mate Epstein the producer?

I wouldn’t know, Seems like you and me don’t watch the same type movies. If he was it will sure be on hunter Biden’s laptop ;p

TheDemonLord

29th May 2022, 12:04

It is almost like his announcement for the presidential run brought along much closer scrutiny of his practices - it is almost like a causal effect!

And yet... None of them surfaced when he became a reality TV Star... One might conclude that this info is only necessary when he's running against certain interests.

My point remains - Everyone had their opinion of Trump formed by the Media.

The other post where I say Trumps super power is to get other people to prostitute their values in order to support him - yeah this. Had Biden made the same statement, you would of been spouting "largest capitulation and loss of soft power in living memory" and so forth.

Of course, but that is because of how laughable Biden's foreign policy has been. I remember a lot of British Conservatives decrying Obama's foreign policy as disastrous - Trump's foreign policy was unconventional, but was effective in it's own way - and gave us the Pax Trumpanica.

One of the things I cannot help but notice with your imbalance, is that you fret deeply about the march of marxism coming in to destroy your beloved capitalist flavor of democracy. Yet you have a breathtaking blind spot to Trumps extremely effective dismantling of it through breeding deep distrust in one of it's major underpinnings - that being free and fair elections. Just last week he was decrying a republican run primary election as being fraudulent!!! So his now standard play book is declare fraud at any result he does not like. No wonder a massive portion of the US voting population have now lost faith in the voting system. As an update, Dr Oz has now claimed victory in that race, just as Trump commanded him to do. So if you are looking for genuine deserved credit for Trump. there it is - he is successfully dismantling democracy on your watch but all you want to do is complain Trump is not getting a fair go. Incredible.

I disagree with your assessment of the situation.

Now - when it comes to the creep of Marxism, I've given umpteen examples where things like CRT are being taught to Primary school children, Gender theory etc. Concepts like Systemic Oppression etc. Even when the leaders of various social movements come right out and say they are Marxists and they are seeking to undermine society - you still think this is merely me 'Fretting'...

However, I raise that to counterpoint - Trump's 'dismantling' as you call it is Newton's Third Law of Politics: For every Action there is a Reaction. The reaction to what you may ask - well, allow me to raise Robert Conquests 2nd law of Politics:

"Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing."

Perhaps the best example of this is the ACLU - they went from having a Jewish lawyer defending the rights of Neo Nazis to exercise their First Amendment rights (which I consider perhaps one of the most principled actions ever undertaken) to advocating de-facto Book Burnings for Books that they don't like.

That is not the only example - I could point to Films and Hollywood as going increasingly 'Woke', Advertisements, Corporations etc. etc.

Then you have a 'Pandemic' (which I can safely say was milder than a Head Cold) and massive over-reaches in Government power, massive civil restrictions (which, I will note - primarily came from one area of the Political Compass) and massive changes in Voting Procedure, again at the behest of that one area.

People smell Bullshit. And going back to the Douglas Murray video, there may be exaggerated claims and grandiosity from Trump, that doesn't take away that there is a kernel of Truth that is not being addressed - and until it is, the problem won't go away.

Is this a Blind Spot? Well that depends on a number of Factors:

It comes down to whether or not you believe these institutions that Trump is dismantling are rotten or not. I'm not fully onboard that they are corrupt beyond repair, however I think the behavior by certain states during the Pandemic in regards to Voting is sufficient to say there is some rot that has set in.

I'll also add, that if the Media hadn't been so hyper-partisan (and bare-faced lying) about Trump, you might find more Good will in the Republican side - As above - what you are describing is a reaction to a number of Salvos fired from the Radical Democrat position.

sugilite

29th May 2022, 12:26

And yet... None of them surfaced when he became a reality TV Star... One might conclude that this info is only necessary when he's running against certain interests.

My point remains - Everyone had their opinion of Trump formed by the Media.

Birtharisytm, taking out full page adverts calling for innocent people to be executed, just to name a few.

Of course, but that is because of how laughable Biden's foreign policy has been.

Trumps capitulation to Putin was not laughable - it was both very telling and chilling at the same time.

I disagree with your assessment of the situation.

Now - when it comes to the creep of Marxism, I've given umpteen examples where things like CRT are being taught to Primary school children, Gender theory etc. Concepts like Systemic Oppression etc. Even when the leaders of various social movements come right out and say they are Marxists and they are seeking to undermine society - you still think this is merely me 'Fretting'...

However, I raise that to counterpoint - Trump's 'dismantling' as you call it is Newton's Third Law of Politics: For every Action there is a Reaction. The reaction to what you may ask - well, allow me to raise Robert Conquests 2nd law of Politics:

"Any organization not explicitly right-wing sooner or later becomes left-wing."

Perhaps the best example of this is the ACLU - they went from having a Jewish lawyer defending the rights of Neo Nazis to exercise their First Amendment rights (which I consider perhaps one of the most principled actions ever undertaken) to advocating de-facto Book Burnings for Books that they don't like.

That is not the only example - I could point to Films and Hollywood as going increasingly 'Woke', Advertisements, Corporations etc. etc.

Then you have a 'Pandemic' (which I can safely say was milder than a Head Cold) and massive over-reaches in Government power, massive civil restrictions (which, I will note - primarily came from one area of the Political Compass) and massive changes in Voting Procedure, again at the behest of that one area.

People smell Bullshit. And going back to the Douglas Murray video, there may be exaggerated claims and grandiosity from Trump, that doesn't take away that there is a kernel of Truth that is not being addressed - and until it is, the problem won't go away.

Is this a Blind Spot? Well that depends on a number of Factors:

It comes down to whether or not you believe these institutions that Trump is dismantling are rotten or not. I'm not fully onboard that they are corrupt beyond repair, however I think the behavior by certain states during the Pandemic in regards to Voting is sufficient to say there is some rot that has set in.

I'll also add, that if the Media hadn't been so hyper-partisan (and bare-faced lying) about Trump, you might find more Good will in the Republican side - As above - what you are describing is a reaction to a number of Salvos fired from the Radical Democrat position.

You mention bullshit in there.
But not anywhere to be found in there is any justification for trump chronically undermining the very underpinnings of democracy - to the point of even pronouncing his own parties elections as fraudulent. Bullshit indeed.

TheDemonLord

29th May 2022, 13:12

Birtharisytm, taking out full page adverts calling for innocent people to be executed, just to name a few.

Which no one mentioned until after I proved that the reasons given were tied to his Election bid.

And the Execution one - a bit of post-hoc there.

Trumps capitulation to Putin was not laughable - it was both very telling and chilling at the same time.

You see it as Capitulation, I don't - and the evidence I use to justify my actions is that Putin did not advance his agenda under Trump in the way he did under Obama and now Biden.

You mention bullshit in there.
But not anywhere to be found in there is any justification for trump chronically undermining the very underpinnings of democracy - to the point of even pronouncing his own parties elections as fraudulent. Bullshit indeed.

If the foundations have rotted, then your only option is to demolish them and rebuild. I'm not convinced they are so far gone as to need to be undermined and rebuilt, but I'm also not convince that the claim of 'no justification' is true. I think there are some justifications, I'm just not sure if they are severe enough to warrant it.

Perhaps if we saw some concessions made by the opposition and maybe an admission that some of their actions have been causal, then perhaps I might be more swayed to your side.

husaberg

29th May 2022, 13:25

You mention bullshit in there.
But not anywhere to be found in there is any justification for trump chronically undermining the very underpinnings of democracy - to the point of even pronouncing his own parties elections as fraudulent. Bullshit indeed.
...............................................

In 1973, Trump was accused by the Justice Department of violations of the Fair Housing Act in the operation of 39 buildings. The Department said that black "testers" were sent to more than half a dozen buildings and were denied apartments, but a similar white tester would then be offered an apartment in the same building.[8] The government alleged that Trump's corporation quoted different rental terms and conditions to blacks and made false "no vacancy" statements to blacks for apartments they managed in Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island.

Representing Trump, Roy Cohn filed a counter-suit against the government for $100 million, asserting that the charges were irresponsible and baseless. A federal judge threw out the countersuit, calling it a waste of "time and paper". Trump settled the charges out of court in 1975

In 1988, the Justice Department sued Trump for violating procedures related to public notifications when buying voting stock in a company related to his attempted takeovers of Holiday Corporation and Bally Manufacturing Corporation in 1986. Trump agreed to pay $750,000 to settle the civil penalties of the antitrust lawsuit

In late 1990, Trump was sued for $2 million by a business analyst for defamation, and Trump settled out of court
Trump Taj Mahal declared bankruptcy in November 1990, the first of several such bankruptcies. The NYSE later ordered the firm to compensate the analyst $750,000;

In 1991, Trump Plaza was fined $200,000 by the New Jersey Casino Control Commission for moving African American and female employees from craps tables in order to accommodate high roller Robert LiButti, a mob figure and alleged John Gotti associate,

n 1991, one of Trump's casinos in Atlantic City, New Jersey, was found guilty of circumventing state regulations about casino financing when Donald Trump's father bought $3.5 million in chips that he had no plans to gamble.

In 2000, Donald Trump paid $250,000 to settle fines related to charges brought by New York State Lobbying Commission director David Grandeau. Trump was charged with circumventing state law to spend $150,000 lobbying against government approval of plans to construct an Indian-run casino in the Catskills, which would have diminished casino traffic to Trump's casinos in Atlantic City.

In 2005, the German state attorney prosecuted Trump Deutschland and its partners for accounting fraud.

In 2006, the Town of Palm Beach began fining Trump $250 per day for ordinance violations related to his erection of an 80-foot-tall (24 m) flagpole flying a 15 by 25 feet (4.6 by 7.6 m) American flag on his property. Trump sued the town for $25 million, saying that they abridged his free speech, also disputing an ordinance that local businesses be "town-serving". The two parties settled as part of a court-ordered mediation, in which Trump was required to donate $100,000 to veterans' charities.

After the 2008 housing-market collapse, Deutsche Bank attempted to collect $40 million that Donald Trump personally guaranteed against their $640 million loan for Trump International Hotel and Tower in Chicago. Rather than paying the debt, Trump sued Deutsche Bank for $3 billion for undermining the project and damage to his reputation. Deutsche Bank then filed suit to obtain the $40 million. The two parties settled in 2010 with Deutsche Bank extending the loan term by five years.

In 2009, Trump was sued by investors who had made deposits for condos in the canceled Trump Ocean Resort Baja Mexico.[85] The investors said that Trump misrepresented his role in the project, stating after its failure that he had been little more than a spokesperson for the entire venture, disavowing any financial responsibility for the debacle.[86] Investors were informed that their investments would not be returned due to the cancellation of construction. In 2013, Trump settled the lawsuit with more than one hundred prospective condo owners for an undisclosed amount

Also in 2011, an appellate court upheld a New Jersey Superior Court judge's decision dismissing Trump's $5 billion defamation lawsuit against author Timothy L. O'Brien, who had reported in his book, TrumpNation: The Art of Being the Donald (2005), that Trump's true net worth was really between $150 and $250 million.

sugilite

30th May 2022, 12:17

And the Execution one - a bit of post-hoc there.

Just proves he runs his mouth and dam the consequences. Had he apologised, I would of cut him some slack. He did not. Why not? Because he is scum.

You see it as Capitulation, I don't - and the evidence I use to justify my actions is that Putin did not advance his agenda under Trump in the way he did under Obama and now Biden.
That is pure speculation at best, and in reality - a desperate, desperate stretch to defend your capitulating scum bag.

If the foundations have rotted, then your only option is to demolish them and rebuild. I'm not convinced they are so far gone as to need to be undermined and rebuilt, but I'm also not convince that the claim of 'no justification' is true. I think there are some justifications, I'm just not sure if they are severe enough to warrant it.

Perhaps if we saw some concessions made by the opposition and maybe an admission that some of their actions have been causal, then perhaps I might be more swayed to your side.
More desperate stuff. You have however perfectly highlighted my point that Trump supporters are willing to prostitute their values to defend him. In your case you can go from save democracy from the marxists" to being kinda ok with trump burning it down. And that is beside the fact that Trump himself shit all over your premise as he called the primary election run by his own team as fraud! A fact that must of slipped your mind when writing it :laugh:
I sure hope you are using eco friendly flush-able wet wipes when constantly removing that orange stain from your chin.

TheDemonLord

30th May 2022, 13:30

Just proves he runs his mouth and dam the consequences. Had he apologised, I would of cut him some slack. He did not. Why not? Because he is scum.

Well, not quite - Context is key - you have a horrible crime and you have people who confessed to it. What is there to apologise for?

That is pure speculation at best, and in reality - a desperate, desperate stretch to defend your capitulating scum bag.

Pure speculation? On what grounds? Did Putin advance his military campaign in the Ukraine under Trump, in the way that he did under Biden and Obama? The answer is No, he did not.

And that's a pretty massive bit of evidence you have to overcome if you want people to believe that Trump was working at the behest of Putin. Normally when you put a puppet regime in, you do all the bad things you want to do whilst they are in power....

More desperate stuff. You have however perfectly highlighted my point that Trump supporters are willing to prostitute their values to defend him. In your case you can go from save democracy from the marxists" to being kinda ok with trump burning it down.

"Save Democracy from Marxism" and "Burn Democracy down"

You are trying to outline that those two positions are mutually exclusive.

They are not.

And that is beside the fact that Trump himself shit all over your premise as he called the primary election run by his own team as fraud! A fact that must of slipped your mind when writing it :laugh:

I've heard this, I've not looked into it - and given the track record here of Media says X about Trump, you'll forgive a very high degree of skepticism between what is being portrayed as said and what has actually been said.

I sure hope you are using eco friendly flush-able wet wipes when constantly removing that orange stain from your chin.

Interestingly enough, we've hit the magical milestone where we no longer need Wet Wipes for that.

sugilite

30th May 2022, 17:31

Well, not quite - Context is key - you have a horrible crime and you have people who confessed to it. What is there to apologise for?
Could it be that they did not confess to that crime?
"Four of the five had confessed to police about other attacks in the park in other areas on the night of April 19, including the assault and robbery of John Loughlin, to which they said they were witnesses or participants."

Pure speculation? On what grounds? Did Putin advance his military campaign in the Ukraine under Trump, in the way that he did under Biden and Obama? The answer is No, he did not.

And that's a pretty massive bit of evidence you have to overcome if you want people to believe that Trump was working at the behest of Putin. Normally when you put a puppet regime in, you do all the bad things you want to do whilst they are in power....
Your look over here, look over here is not working.
A: You already admitted had Biden said it, you would of hammered him.
B: It is circumstantial at best, unless if course you have a hot line to Putin? "Massive bit of evidence" indeed. On one hand you moan about the media reporting with an agenda, but you yourself post absolute twaddle in the defense of Trump. :facepalm: You are the same as the media you moan about.
C: I have seen you argue both that Trump is so unpredictable, Putin feared to invade, and here you are saying because Trump was so friendly siding with Putin, What? Putin was so grateful he was sided with, then did not want to upset Trump?
If course the option is D: Trump is so thin skinned he would rather say that he believed Putin that Russia would never interfere with American elections than give any credence to his many, many intelligence agencies. Trump for Trump yet again.

"Save Democracy from Marxism" and "Burn Democracy down"

You are trying to outline that those two positions are mutually exclusive.

They are not.
These latest postings are far from your finest work. So what snake oil are you trying to sell us here? Trump is allowed to destroy the democratic process because of completely unsubstantiated allegations of mail in election fraud? So he destroys it, and replaces it with what? My bet would be totalitarianism - with him firmly at the top. You want that? You love Trump enough to forsake actual democracy? Looks to me like you have transformed into CINO - Conservative in name only.

I've heard this, I've not looked into it - and given the track record here of Media says X about Trump, you'll forgive a very high degree of skepticism between what is being portrayed as said and what has actually been said.
Well this is just too delicious - Trump himself said it in a post on.....Truth Social :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
“Dr. Oz should declare victory, It makes it much harder for them to cheat with the ballots they ‘just happened to find.'
Yep, there he goes again, touting electoral fraud, this time against his own party. Trumple-Thin-Skin just cannot stand losing at anything. He is quite prepared to trample all over democracy to do it - as are you by your unwavering support for him. CINO!

Interestingly enough, we've hit the magical milestone where we no longer need Wet Wipes for that.
What, you grew a beard to cover it? Did you dye your hair to match the orange color of the beard? You won't be selling it if not :bleh:

sugilite

30th May 2022, 19:03

Once people like this were considered RWNJ's, now it is more like mainstream, as evidenced by the appearance of Taylor Green. Enjoy :laugh:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEa3sK1iZxc

TheDemonLord

30th May 2022, 19:35

I nearly thought you were someone else due to the new Avatar :D

Could it be that they did not confess to that crime?
"Four of the five had confessed to police about other attacks in the park in other areas on the night of April 19, including the assault and robbery of John Loughlin, to which they said they were witnesses or participants."

I'm going off newspaper articles from that time, since it's the relevant context - they said 'they confessed'

Your look over here, look over here is not working.
A: You already admitted had Biden said it, you would of hammered him.

Sure - but let's imagine a scenario were Biden was competent, I know - quite possibly the biggest stretch I've ever made, but let's try - so Imagine Afghanistan went smoothly, imagine that his usage of soft power globally etc. etc.

I'd have let something like that slide, just like I let a lot of his faux pas, his muddled words, his statements that his own press team have to wind back with 'The president doesn't really mean that' (something I note you were very hard on Trump for).

However, given his actions, if he had made a statement like that with his failures in foreign policy, yeah, I'd crucify him.

B: It is circumstantial at best, unless if course you have a hot line to Putin? "Massive bit of evidence" indeed. On one hand you moan about the media reporting with an agenda, but you yourself post absolute twaddle in the defense of Trump. :facepalm: You are the same as the media you moan about.

Except I'm proved correct with the passage of Time and the Media is proved wrong.

(You really walked into that one :P )

But to the serious point, Is it Circumstantial? Sure. Circumstantial Evidence though, is still evidence. We have a generally agreed upon set of behaviors that are expected from both parties in a corrupt relationship as is alleged - that when you've put your Patsi in place, that's when you do all your dodgy stuff.

So if Trump had these Russian connections, the well established expectation is that Putin would invade under Trump. He didn't and that is a big fly in the ointment. It does not match up with expected behavior.

Then you add all the other stuff (like this is all one big Hilary Hoax to begin with) and the foundation for this point against Trump disappears like a Fart in the wind.

C: I have seen you argue both that Trump is so unpredictable, Putin feared to invade, and here you are saying because Trump was so friendly siding with Putin, What? Putin was so grateful he was sided with, then did not want to upset Trump?

Plomo o Plato.

Lead or Gold.

You make a deal or you risk getting destroyed. We saw this style of foreign policy multiple times - whether it's Tweeting at Kim Jon Un that his Nuclear button is bigger, or Drone striking the Terrorist or the deal with the Taliban - You have a public show of working with the opposition, backed up by an implicit threat of violence.

If course the option is D: Trump is so thin skinned he would rather say that he believed Putin that Russia would never interfere with American elections than give any credence to his many, many intelligence agencies. Trump for Trump yet again.

I think I said years ago that there is no doubt a baseline level of interference from Russia in the US elections, going back probably to around the 1930s. Whether it's funding workers Unions, Proving McCarthy was right all along - I don't doubt that it has happened. Was there Russian gamesmanship in the 2016 election - undoubtedly.

Was it more or less than any other election and did it move the needle? Not at all.

These latest postings are far from your finest work. So what snake oil are you trying to sell us here? Trump is allowed to destroy the democratic process because of completely unsubstantiated allegations of mail in election fraud? So he destroys it, and replaces it with what? My bet would be totalitarianism - with him firmly at the top. You want that? You love Trump enough to forsake actual democracy? Looks to me like you have transformed into CINO - Conservative in name only.

I mean, a Trump dictatorship would be better than the tooth faced liar we have currently, and I do like the God Emperor meme...

Right - jokes out of the way:

Where did these allegations come from? You have a number of states that do not have a history of mass Mail in Voting, without the protections of states like Florida or Ohio (which IIRC have a history of Mail in Voting, including several dubious events which lead to laws being tightened). Some of those states made the changes to their elections without going through the normal process.

Further to that, there was one side who was heavily in favour of these changes (The Democrats) and one side that wasn't (The Republicans). So you have a massive change in the laws, pushed for by one party, a hotly contested election, a number of statistically strange events (at least 2-3 I witnessed myself), a vast number of election firsts etc.

Then you have this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37243190

High Voter turnout, in some cases abnormally high - Does it prove Fraud? No - but you can chalk this up to a hotly contested Election
High Turnouts in specific Areas - We definitely had this. the Wisconsin Vote spike is probably the best example
Large numbers of invalid votes - I forget what the actual rate was, but I do recall it being between 5 and 10% in some areas
More votes than ballot papers issued - I remember this was claimed, although to be fair - I think it was found to be bad info on the part of one of the states
Results that don't match - I mean, we have one candidate that can barely fill a carpark and another candidate who was filling stadiums...
Delay in announcing results - we definitely had that.

None of these means it was definitely fraud, but when you have one side push for changes that appear to benefit that one side - questions are going to be asked:

Nemo iudex in causa sua.

Would Trump be totalitarian? Clearly not. He had the justification that the rest of the world used for totalitarian measures under Covid and he didn't opt to use them. His Supreme court picks have all be textualists, which is not congruent with a Totalitarian.

To answer the underlying question - We can point to cartel like behavior between one particular Political Party, Social Media, Traditional Media and Corporate America. The level of Bias in one direction has altered the Playing field and unless there is a major correction, then perhaps burning it all down and rebuilding it anew is the solution.

I'm not there yet, but Biden's continued ineptitude is bringing me ever close to that position.

Well this is just too delicious - Trump himself said it in a post on.....Truth Social :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
“Dr. Oz should declare victory, It makes it much harder for them to cheat with the ballots they ‘just happened to find.'
Yep, there he goes again, touting electoral fraud, this time against his own party. Trumple-Thin-Skin just cannot stand losing at anything. He is quite prepared to trample all over democracy to do it - as are you by your unwavering support for him. CINO!

You forget, I don't go on Truth Social, just like I don't watch Fox news.

What, you grew a beard to cover it? Did you dye your hair to match the orange color of the beard? You won't be selling it if not :bleh:

No, I meant we no longer need to buy Baby Wipes - it was a little celebration of a parental milestone.

And you know I've got a beard!

pritch

1st June 2022, 09:21

sugilite

2nd June 2022, 11:00

Trump has lost yet another court case. A prosecution arising out of Durham's three year, multi million, investigation of Democrats spying on Trump has resulted in an acquittal. After less than a day of deliberation the jury acquitted Clinton lawyer Michael Sussman.

Trump, of course, says it was rigged. So much losing.

Yeah, Durham is 0 for 1 after all this time, where as how many convictions for the Mueller investigation? Clearly the Durham one is a with hunt. As we know from a fellow kbers post, that explained away the massive disparities of black vs white drug convictions, we can have 100% confidence the US jusicial system got this one right. Shame on Trump and his with hunt.

And fresh in, Hershel Walker is disgruntled that Trump is falsely claiming he told Hershel to run. suck it up Hershel and get used to it. Trump can only claim credit for other peoples achievements, as his own (positive) achievements cupboard is near naked.
https://thehill.com/news/campaign/3507012-herschel-walker-mad-at-trump-over-remarks-about-senate-bid/

More Herschel news, he has a little ways to go before he is as slick as other repubs at explaining how guns are wonderful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj8U1IQ3-TA

You can bet the repubs will not let him anywhere near a debate with Abrahams. Actually I see the repubs have also pulled out of future presidential debates too. Much harder to hide a wanker in plain sight, and it is not like democracy is built on healthy debate or anything :shutup:

sugilite

5th June 2022, 18:22

An illuminating video for why Donald Trump gets away with breaking the law with impunity - for now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2AnVD2k3Pg

pritch

5th June 2022, 22:09

An illuminating video for why Donald Trump gets away with breaking the law with impunity - for now.

Navarro is a walking contradiction, he has a PhD in economics. He was a professor but his views are regarded as outside the main stream of economic thought.
Which is a polite way of saying weird. IIRC he was recommend to Trump by Trump Junior who was aware of the contents of a book he had written. Trump then took him on as an Advisor on trade.

He was issued a subpoena (or more than one) but he's claiming executive privilege. There is only one person can grant executive privilege and that is the president. Biden has apparently declined to do so. Executive privilege isa powerful thing but there are disqualifiers: if the conversations in question are related to a crime the privilege ceases, if one of the parties to the privilege goes public the privilege is withdrawn. Navarro appears on any TV channel that will have him. He claims he was on his way to yet another TV appearance when he was arrested. Additionally he has already described the events in question in a book.

There is the possibility he could face a jail sentence but he has decided to defend himself. His comments regarding legal matters tend toward the idiotic. His qualification is economics not law and it shows.

Oh and he's counter suing the Congressional Committee that has been issuing the subpoenas.

Watch this space...

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/03/politics/peter-navarro-indicted/index.html
.

Laava

6th June 2022, 11:00

In other news, I took a Trump this morning. Better out than in!

sugilite

6th June 2022, 12:07

In other news, I took a Trump this morning. Better out than in!
Coincidentally, it is well documented that Trump came into being after the devil had eaten a dodgy butter chicken the night before, the next morning out splattered Donald Trump. Explains that permanent orange hue :laugh:

In other Trump news. He has accused another republican run primary election of fraud, this time the one where Kemp won Gergia. Don't worry, the faithful will still be believing trump that every unfavorable election result must be fraud.
speaking of which, all Mo Brooks had to do is relay trumps pathetic lie, and boom he is back in. Even Bannon the wall funds thief approves of him now :lol:
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/04/trump-weighs-a-big-bet-in-alabama-senate-race-00037154

Guilty as fuck trump misplaced no fewer than 12 former secretaries, and claims he does not know what companies official document destruction rules are - very believable - for gormless trump supporters that is.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-explains-why-he-cant-find-12-ex-secretaries-2022-6

Looks like a blood bath is on the way - this will be glorious!
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/desantis-trump-sarah-sanders-straw-poll-western-conservative-summit

Even Trumps closest aide says he lost it, to with trumps response is if course losing it :laugh:
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/05/26/trump-hits-back-at-kellyanne-conway-for-admitting-that-he-lost-in-2020-00035392
Amazing how many Trump aides write books. Trump would have you believe every single last one of the many are lying - which if taken at his very dubious word would mean he simply lacks the skill sets to hire good people :weird:

Once we see these texts, Should confirm it was very much an attempted coup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CygrWRrHWs

sugilite

7th June 2022, 10:15

So with years of investigation, Durham comes up with literally nothing. Zero convictions, against a successful Mueller probes many convictions. But not to worry, Toady Bill Barr says it was more important to tell the "story". So the whole investigation was a bunch of virtue signalling. Big surprise - not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiGU7wyHnK8

Successful Mueller Probe convictions: (basically half of Trumps campaign team)
Former Trump 2016 campaign chairman Paul Manafort: Sentenced to 7.5 years in prison this March for bank and tax fraud and crimes related to his work as a political consultant in Ukraine.
Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen: Received a three-year prison sentence in Dec. 2018 for tax evasion, bank fraud, lying to Congress and campaign finance violations.
Former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos: Convicted of lying to investigators about about Russian contacts. He served 12 days in prison and in October, filed to run for former Rep. Katie Hill's California seat.
Richard Pinedo: The California man was sentenced to six months in prison in Oct. 2018 for selling bank account numbers to Russians who engaged in election interference. He has no known connection to Trump.
Dutch attorney Alex van der Zwaan: Pleaded guilty to lying to federal investigators about his work for law firm Skadden, Arps, Meagher, & Flom LLP and Affiliates in 2012. He was sentenced to 30 days in prison and a $20,000 fine.
Ex-Trump campaign deputy chairman Rick Gates: Pleaded guilty in Feb. 2018 to conspiracy and lying to the FBI. After cooperating extensively in multiple investigations, Gates was sentenced in December to 45 days in jail, three years of probation and 300 hours of community service.
Roger Stone: Sentenced to 40 months in prison for crimes that include obstruction of justice, lying to Congress and witness tampering. A federal jury convicted Stone last year after he lied to Congress about his efforts to learn more about when WikiLeaks would publish damaging emails about Hillary Clinton during the 2016 presidential election.
Former national security adviser Michael Flynn: The retired three-star general pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI in Dec. 2017.

And let us not forget that Mueller also said had trump not been a sitting president, he would of gone down for at least 10 counts of obstruction.

The failed Duram probe convictions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

All of kb's trump supporter may of jumped the gun a bit last week :devil2:

husaberg

14th June 2022, 23:17

Remember Trump donor a major Breitbart donor and Cambridge Analytica funder Robert Mercer
He has also been a major funder of organizations supporting right-wing political causes in the United States
such as Donald Trump's 2016 campaign for president. He is the principal benefactor of the Make America Number 1 super PAC.
Mercer played a key role in the campaign for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union by donating data analytics services to Nigel Farage.

Well guess what.
In 2021, Mercer was involved in possibly the largest tax settlement in U.S. history, as he, James Simons, and other executives at the hedge fund Renaissance Technologies were ordered to pay as much as $7 billion to the IRS in back taxes.

[The IRS contend[ed] that the arrangement Renaissance’s Medallion fund had with the banks, in which the fund owned option contracts rather than the underlying financial instruments, is a ruse and that the fund investors owe taxes at the higher rate. Because Medallion could claim that it owned just one asset – the option – and held it for more than a year, investors could declare their gains to be long-term investments.

— Bloomberg 2014

:niceone:

pritch

15th June 2022, 18:33

The Democrats tend to be poitically ummm uninspiring. The Republicans have much better messaging skils. There is hope the Democrats can learn though.

They have had professional help with their Jan 6 Commision TV coverage. Instead of a succession of Democrats announcing their findings, most of the evidence is from the mouths of Trump family, cabinet members, or campaign managers, and the like. Under oath the lies stop.

So far it has been interesting but a delay has been announced. Your guess as to the cause of the delay is as good as anybody else's, my hope is for blockbuster new details. However badly this goes for trump though I think the Democrats will be too soft to treat him appropriately.

TheDemonLord

15th June 2022, 19:58

The Democrats tend to be poitically ummm uninspiring. The Republicans have much better messaging skils. There is hope the Democrats can learn though.

Wut?

Are you serious?

As much as I love to lambast the current state of Left Wing Politics, the Left Wing have always been the 'cool' side of Politics, whereas Conservatism has always been stuffy, old and boring.

They have had professional help with their Jan 6 Commision TV coverage. Instead of a succession of Democrats announcing their findings, most of the evidence is from the mouths of Trump family, cabinet members, or campaign managers, and the like. Under oath the lies stop.

Professional Help for TV Coverage? Sounds like a tacit ommission of the Left-Wing bias of the Media :P

And Under Oath lies stop? I mean I watched/listened to the Amber Heard trial in it's entirety - there was definitely a bunch of lies told under Oath....

So far it has been interesting but a delay has been announced. Your guess as to the cause of the delay is as good as anybody else's, my hope is for blockbuster new details. However badly this goes for trump though I think the Democrats will be too soft to treat him appropriately.

Dems will be too soft on him? They tried to Impeach him twice! They've been smearing him since 2015, as I proved in this thread - so I've no idea on what basis you think the Democrats are going to treat Trump with any form of Goodwill.

As for the Delay? I've no idea either - but one thing that I suspect is a factor is Inflation and the Cost of Fuel and the day-to-day financial burdens being felt by Americans is of far greater importance to the average Citizen than the dog-and-pony show going on at the moment.

And as an Aside, if the Dems do find Incitement - I'm looking forward to them doing an investigation on themselves for all of the BLM violence, Antifa Violence and the attempted Murder of Justice Kavanaugh.

pritch

15th June 2022, 22:17

Wut?

Are you serious?

As much as I love to lambast the current state of Left Wing Politics, the Left Wing have always been the 'cool' side of Politics, whereas Conservatism has always been stuffy, old and boring.

Professional Help for TV Coverage? Sounds like a tacit ommission of the Left-Wing bias of the Media :P

And Under Oath lies stop? I mean I watched/listened to the Amber Heard trial in it's entirety - there was definitely a bunch of lies told under Oath....

Dems will be too soft on him? They tried to Impeach him twice! They've been smearing him since 2015, as I proved in this thread - so I've no idea on what basis you think the Democrats are going to treat Trump with any form of Goodwill.

As for the Delay? I've no idea either - but one thing that I suspect is a factor is Inflation and the Cost of Fuel and the day-to-day financial burdens being felt by Americans is of far greater importance to the average Citizen than the dog-and-pony show going on at the moment.

And as an Aside, if the Dems do find Incitement - I'm looking forward to them doing an investigation on themselves for all of the BLM violence, Antifa Violence and the attempted Murder of Justice Kavanaugh.

Jesus man, you've lost the plot completely. I'm sorry I read this nonsense. Most of your reply has zero bearing on what I wrote.

The Commission hired one or more TV producers which doesn't support your conspiracy theory in the least. A number of Trump associates have given sufficient cause to be locked up. That's not my opinion that's fact, check contempt of Congress including 'inherent contempt of Congress."

The "attempted murder of Kavanaugh" is just too silly. Someone reportedly had a gun, unloaded, in a case, and phoned the Police and told them. You are noted for extreme mental gymnastics but to sretch that to attempted murder is completely absurd. But hey...

Back on ignore you go.

Laava

15th June 2022, 22:22

I lolled at the bit where he said he watched the Amber Absurd trial in it's entirety!
I wouldn't ordinarily have seen it but you quoted it…

TheDemonLord

16th June 2022, 08:23

I lolled at the bit where he said he watched the Amber Absurd trial in it's entirety!
I wouldn't ordinarily have seen it but you quoted it…

Why? It was live streamed every day and was great to listen to whilst working?

TheDemonLord

16th June 2022, 08:43

The Commission hired one or more TV producers which doesn't support your conspiracy theory in the least.

I mean, it was said tongue-in-cheek - but the fact this has riled you up so much means there was clearly an exposed Nerve there. One might conjecture it was a little too close to the Truth.

A number of Trump associates have given sufficient cause to be locked up. That's not my opinion that's fact, check contempt of Congress including 'inherent contempt of Congress."

Fact is it? We'll see about your Facts in a minute....

The "attempted murder of Kavanaugh" is just too silly. Someone reportedly had a gun, unloaded, in a case, and phoned the Police and told them.

Hold up just a second.

Not 'Reportedly had a gun', actually had a gun. And Pepper Spray and a Knife.

His Sister (whom he texted) told him to stop and call the Police - who he told that he had come from California, to Kill the Justice.

Too Silly?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nicholas-roske-brett-kavanaugh-attempted-murder/

Seems the Courts disagree, considering that Attempted Murder is what he's been charged with.

You are noted for extreme mental gymnastics but to sretch that to attempted murder is completely absurd. But hey...

Oh Dear Pritch, you seem to have put yourself in a bit of a logically quandary.

On the one hand, you are loudly proclaiming the sanctity of the Courts by TRUMPeting all the contempt of Court charges you feel that Associates have committed.
Yet, not mere moments later, you are saying that referring to what happened to Justice Kavanaugh as Attempted Murder is "extreme mental gymnastics but to sretch that to attempted murder is completely absurd." Despite the fact that this is not my opinion, rather it is the Crime he has been charged with.

So which is it?

You can't pick and choose your faith in the Court and Legal system depending on whether it suits your views.

I've expressed my contempt at the Jan 6th Kangaroo show, mainly over the hypocrisy of the Left on this matter vs when it comes to BLM/Antifa (who did far more damage, over far longer, with far more direct incitement).

And I'll even let you into a little secret - based on the US definition of Attempted Murder, I don't think he went far enough to be convicted of it, since the US definition requires more than mere preparation - the example given is shooting at someone and missing - which I don't think his Taxi ride is sufficient to cross the threshold from Preparation to Attempt.

However - I refer to it as Attempted Murder - because that is what he has been charged with. Not because I think he's guilty of it - and all your bluster about Mental Gymnastics, whilst being ignorant of Reality only serves the over-arching point: You've lost the plot.

Back on ignore you go.

You'll be back.

pete376403

16th June 2022, 09:47

Maybe all that - but to suggest the Democrats somehow had a hand in this individuals actions? Even for you that's a stretch.

TheDemonLord

16th June 2022, 10:21

Maybe all that - but to suggest the Democrats somehow had a hand in this individuals actions? Even for you that's a stretch.

It is and it isn't.

See - my personal feelings on this are very clear - Incitement is wrong, but it also has to be very clear "Go over there, Kill those people", "Do X to Y" etc.

But that isn't the standard(s) that the Democrats have repeatedly set, when it comes to the Republicans.

If you believe, as most people here do, that Trump's Jan 6th speech was incitement for what happened - then by the same token YOU (not me) MUST find the likes of Nancy Pelosi:

...Already, Republicans across the nation are mobilizing around a dangerous and extreme agenda to criminalize all forms of reproductive health care...
...Senate Republicans lined up in lockstep behind Mitch McConnell and Trump to vote to rip away the Constitutional right...
...they intend to wage an all out assault on more of our rights...
...Democrats are fighting...
...Americans are marching...
...We will never stop fighting...

Or the DNC itself:

Standing shoulder to shoulder...
...Democrats who will serve as the last lines of defense...

Or Elizabeth Warren:

...With this extremist Supreme Court...
...We must use every policy tool available to push back against this attack...

Or Mark Ruffolo:

We must stop this now...
...Taking it to the streets is the way to stop it

or

Valeria Foushee:

Now more than ever we must stand up, speak out, and fight back against the attacks...
...I've been fighting this battle for 25 years...
...I won't stop now. I won't stop ever...

And that is just from high-profile verified Twitter Check marks, that's not including all the other rhetoric surrounding it. Justice Kavanaugh also isn't the only example - Pro-Life centres have been Fire Bombed.

Now, back to your point - if blaming the Democrats for the Attempted Murder of a Justice - because someone was angry about Roe V Wade, armed themselves and went to his house is a stretch.

Then it is also a stretch for Trump

You cannot have it both ways - and this has been my over-arching point all along - it's one rule for the Dems and a different rule for Trump.

pritch

24th June 2022, 12:35

husaberg

24th June 2022, 17:53

Vanity is a powerful thing. A British documentary film maker had full access to Trump and family members at work and play apparently. There are eleven hours of footage including some taken Jan 6th 2021. He is having a private intervieswwith the commission today, he has agreed to supply all of his footage.

Sitting through eleven hours of Trumps though...

Indeed the fable of "the king has no clothes" springs to mind with resident Trump and his supporters.

https://i.redd.it/kwe3slkzz8151.jpg
they are simply to narcissistic and vain to attempt he's a lying thieving mupetard no doubt what evidence is presented.
Its like a religious cult

https://i.imgflip.com/41qagn.jpg

TheDemonLord

25th June 2022, 09:16

SCOTUS 2, Leftists 0.

If only we had a court with such Balls.

R650R

25th June 2022, 10:51

TheDemonLord

25th June 2022, 11:06

Eleven Hours of Trump.... sounds like title next Netflix binge series lol... it’s funny the people that hate him the most and can’t let go are probably watching that or more searching for memes or clips about the “ imminent” arrest or prosecution etc.....

There has just been another Jan6 related death. Apparently a new drinking game has started where people drinking in leftist bars cheer and scull a shot glass everytine CNN says “Jan 6th”. One man is reported dead and massive casualties have alcohol poisoning say unnamed sources.

Best headline on abortion debate “ Roe vs Wade aborted in 198th trimester”

AOC screaming illegitimate and calling for protestors to storm street, sounds like call to insurrection..... Best of all it’s a black man that made the court judgement so they won’t touch him...

Exactly - what is good for the Goose, is good for the Gander - and we've got firebombings and other attacks spurned on by inflammatory rhetorhic by the Democrats.

Can't wait for the investigation into that...

Or BLM...
Or Antifa...

And they've been Uncle Tom'ing Justice Thomas all the way back as far as 1994: https://www.google.com/search?q=clarence+thomas+uncle+tom&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALiCzsbbbsttXk1PSFEn9BkQNveF2roJWQ%3A1656111 870390&ei=_kK2YsvGF9SSseMPspWGoAE&ved=0ahUKEwjLvfi9mcf4AhVUSWwGHbKKARQQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=clarence+thomas+uncle+tom&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAM6BwgAEEcQsAM6CggAELEDEIMBEEM 6BAguEEM6BAgAEEM6BQguEIAEOgUIABCABEoECEEYAEoECEYYA FCaA1iDE2DKFGgBcAF4AIAB1QKIAZgVkgEHMC4yLjUuM5gBAKA BAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=gws-wiz

nerrrd

25th June 2022, 11:18

SCOTUS 2, Leftists 0.

If only we had a court with such Balls.

I submit that not having balls does give you a completely different outlook on one of those two issues.

husaberg

25th June 2022, 11:23

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2020-09/29/21/asset/55acbfad1d41/sub-buzz-32115-1601413233-10.jpghttps://i.ytimg.com/vi/6--ojv_p2UQ/maxresdefault.jpghttps://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180821174751-lead-preet-bharara-live-cohen-guilty-jake-tapper-00001407.jpghttps://www.allgreatquotes.com/wp-content/uploads/donald-trump-13.jpghttps://i.pinimg.com/474x/6d/c1/e8/6dc1e8db7671e061eaabf2e91df7d645.jpghttps://dogtrainingobedienceschool.com/pic/6130517_full-donald-trump-business-success-quotes-15-inspirational-quotes-from-donald-trump-inspiration-successstory.jpghttps://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9f175bd36645b726936a0740023c7c79-pjlq

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/2b/7e/61/2b7e61f8b3bc55359c07e724caff79c2--donald-trump-quotes-common-sense.jpghttps://i.pinimg.com/236x/4e/4b/91/4e4b913b46f1e5fda75cb685f1614f16--ridiculous-quotes-donald-trump-quotes.jpghttps://i.pinimg.com/236x/77/5e/30/775e304a81de81c5950ac644c00065d4.jpg

TheDemonLord

25th June 2022, 11:39

I submit that not having balls does give you a completely different outlook on one of those two issues.

I submit that the Leftists who so feverishly claim this have shot themselves in the foot. (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=men+can+get+pregnant)

TheDemonLord

25th June 2022, 11:40

Pure refined Copium

And yet, life was better under Trump.

Hows that Inflation and Petrol costs doing for ya?

pritch

25th June 2022, 12:57

TheDemonLord

25th June 2022, 13:29

For those who have the time, the coverage of the Jan 6 Commission is interesting.

One item of particular interest in the last day or so was the interview with Jeffrey Clark. He is the guy who Trump wanted to appoint to head the Department of Justice.
This despite the fact that he had no experience of criminal law at all. His background was in environmental law. His main qualification appears to be that he would permit Trump to use the DoJ to keep himself in the White House.

During his interview Clark claimed executive privilege. Fair enough, that exists so the the president and his cabinet can have frank discussions without worrying about the detail coming out later. There are a couple of exceptions though.

Clark having claimed executive privilege then invoked the fifth amendment. The right not to answer as that could incriminate him.

One of the aforementioned exceptions is that privilege cannot be claimed if criminal conduct is involved. Claiming the fifth is basically confirmation that criminal conduct is involved. Other lawyers have been delightedly pointing out that it's either or. You cannot claim privilege, then claim the fifth or vice versa. It's understandable that Clark's kmowledge of criminal law is lacking to that extent, but his lawyer can't be the sharpest tool in the shed.

Anyhoo, the FBI were interested in all of this, if eighteen months late, and they turned up mob handed at Clarks house with a search warrant and an electronic devices sniffing dog (who knew?). Three hours later they left with all of his electronic devices. There's only one thing to do after that.

Clark went of FOX and complained about NAZIs.

Well - hold up a second.

If the protections afforded by the 5th Amendment are being interpreted in a Criminal Context (as you claim), then no adverse inferences can be drawn. I can post up the clip of Judge Schroeder excoriating Attorney Binger for that.

Adverse Inferences would include the inference that if the 5th is being invoked in a Criminal Context, then that means there was Criminal Conduct, and therefore Executive Privilege doesn't apply.

If the protections afforded by the 5th Amendment aren't being interpreted in a Criminal Context:

In civil cases, “the Fifth Amendment does not forbid adverse inferences against parties to civil actions when they refuse to testify in response to probative evidence offered against them.” (Baxter v. Palmigiano (1976) 425 U.S. 308, 318.)

Then you can have a negative inference, but then you are left with the issue that a Civil context is not a Criminal context and therefore it's usage doesn't negate Executive Privilege.

Laava

25th June 2022, 18:09

This reminded me of Trump, although I am sure it would leave a better taste in your mouth…
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/home-living/food-beverage/fresh-produce/listing/3650011465?bof=S2E6Ch8I

F5 Dave

25th June 2022, 18:53

That's because Trump and his sycophants, people like TDL and the religious don't care for women. 50% of the human race.

For the fucking shame of those sad fuks.

TheDemonLord

25th June 2022, 20:07

That's because Trump and his sycophants, people like TDL and the religious don't care for women. 50% of the human race.

For the fucking shame of those sad fuks.

First let's address some Facts - I'm Pro-Choice, always have been.

Next - would you like to guess at which Gender makes up the Majority of Anti-Abortion Activists? I'll give you a hint, it isn't Men (although that doesn't mean much in this day and age...)

So, it seems Women don't care for Women.... which kinda nullifies your argument...

One might conjecture that Women who become Mothers place an extremely great deal of value on Motherhood and so seek to protect it. But let's not let facts get in the way of a good story, aye?

Now, get back to Roe v Wade - Even if you are Pro-Choice, there is one inescapable fact: Roe was bad Law. The constitution says nothing about Abortion, Nor is Abortion an ancient right or custom, in fact it was known about and was illegal in most State Law and English Common Law. The notion that a Right to privacy somehow extends to Abortion is a stretch of astronomical proportions. That was the Justification. It was bad when it was made and it has now been corrected.

I've said elsewhere that I would support an Amendment for Abortion rights if they wanted it to be Constitutionally protected.

Nor does this make Abortion Illegal - it means that individual States can set their own Abortion laws. Some might be very permissive. Some might be very restrictive, I've already seen various companies saying that they will add to their Workers perks, that they will pay for the cost to travel out of state if they need one.

As an Aside -for all the Wailing and Gnashing of teeth from the Democrats - there's something that I feel is worth raising, Let's go back to the Bill Clinton era Democrats - where the Abortion line was 'Safe, Legal and rare' - which is that an Abortion is viewed as a necessary Evil, not something to be celebrated or Shouted about (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=shout+your+abortion) - This was a compromise that most Republicans who didn't hold religious views on the matter could accept.

Then the line became Safe and Legal, Rare being removed from the parlance - Effectively the Democrats broke the Truce and now they've paid the price.

husaberg

25th June 2022, 20:17

That's because Trump and his sycophants, people like TDL and the religious don't care for women. 50% of the human race.

For the fucking shame of those sad fuks.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/11/15/1054710917/texas-abortion-law-harm-sexual-assault-survivors

https://s3.amazonaws.com/lowres.cartoonstock.com/religion-doctor-medicine-religious_nut-god-heals-mfln306_low.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/32913006847_85d690b3e0_z.jpghttps://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/05/29/USAT/a8ea0334-1b5b-49f3-99a9-cc98d5af132d-Abortion_Protest.jpg?crop=4785,2692,x1,y376&width=3200&height=1801&format=pjpg&auto=webp

TheDemonLord

25th June 2022, 20:31

More Copium

However, for the Lady with the Sign:

Abortions: around 800,000-900,000 per year
People killed with 'Assault Rifles': around 390 per year

Also, the US Constitution.

And if you are going to play the 'But Muh Science' - you should be careful - The Biologists seem almost unanimous that Human Life begins at conception.

F5 Dave

25th June 2022, 20:40

Jesus, the King of the Jews, came to save all of us White guys, somehow.

Whitewash.

husaberg

25th June 2022, 20:47

https://i.imgur.com/tHwqJ2X.pnghttps://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-362b123b93321158fb922806e253aacb
https://images.baklol.com/This-Republican-Jesus-0759785691499514449.jpeg

Berries

26th June 2022, 00:03

Also, the US Constitution.
Enough said.

What a joke of a country.

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 06:32

cope copitty cope cope

However the last image.... let's see what the Bible says and....

Oh.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Thessalonians_3#Verse_10

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 06:33

Enough said.

What a joke of a country.

Yeah, what a joke - sticking to the letter of the law.....

Berries

26th June 2022, 08:40

husaberg

26th June 2022, 09:56

Oddly a few on here like to pick and choose what laws they want to follow as being legimate like NZ firearm laws.
or what the bible say.
like these gems

1 Corinthians 7:1-40 The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does.

Ephesians 5:22 English Standard Version (ESV) Wives and Husbands 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.
not only that Dinah Was Married To Shechem and consummated at nine in the bible. its called the Rape of Dinah, before she was promised to marriage her brothers insisted every male was circumcised As they they had had pre marital sex, then they killed every male in the city plundered its wealth and took all the women.

What about Bible bashing white ol USA as well though

Among the states with the highest rates of child marriages were Arkansas, Idaho and Kentucky. The number of child marriages has been falling, but every state in America still allows underage girls to marry, typically with the consent of parents, a judge or both. Twenty-seven states do not even set a minimum age by statute

pritch

26th June 2022, 10:16

James Deuce

26th June 2022, 10:43

It's getting difficult to see much difference between the Taliban and the US Supreme Court. Actually the six SCOTUS Catholic Justices acting according to their religious beliefs is itself unconstitutional.
So is the lack of belonging to a well regulated militia to own a firearm. They don't give a shit though. We're a couple of weeks from them renaming the USA, "The Republic of Gilead."

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 12:06

The joke being that a supposedly modern country is being held to the letter of the law from a document written over 200 years ago when the people who wrote it would have absolutely no idea what the country would look like now.

We have Letters of Law that date back to documents that were written over 800 years old, and still relevant.

Did the Founding Fathers know exactly what the country would look like now? No.
Did they know the consequences of adhering to the principles of limiting the Government in the Constitution would be? Absolutely.

The question decided by the Supreme Court has not made Abortion Illegal, it has made it a matter for each individual state to decide. If you think Abortion should be constitutionally protected, then propose an Amendment.

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 12:13

Oddly a few on here like to pick and choose what laws they want to follow as being legimate like NZ firearm laws.

I know right, it's almost like the individual is their own Moral Agent, with the capacity to judge whether Laws are Just or Unjust and whether it is right for them to follow a Law or not.

Perhaps some of us when the Government says to Discriminate against a group based on their beliefs, that such discrimination is wrong.

or what the bible say.

I don't follow what the Bible says, The point I was making is that the Meme you posted that is supposedly mocking the current Christian attitudes, by juxtaposing Christ repeating what they say doesn't work, because the Bible does actually say that those who don't work, don't eat.

Something that if you had either read or understood the Bible, you'd know.

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 12:15

It's getting difficult to see much difference between the Taliban and the US Supreme Court. Actually the six SCOTUS Catholic Justices acting according to their religious beliefs is itself unconstitutional.

Did they make Abortion Federally Illegal?

No?

So they didn't act according to their religious beliefs - they looked at what the Constitution says, what the Legal history says and came to the conclusion that there is no way that a Right to Privacy can be extended to an Abortion.

Therefore it's not constitutionally protected.

Nothing more.

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 12:20

So is the lack of belonging to a well regulated militia to own a firearm. They don't give a shit though. We're a couple of weeks from them renaming the USA, "The Republic of Gilead."

We've been through this, Multiple times.

Militia is interpreted as the Individual.
Well Regulated means 'ready to do their duty'.

And the perfunctory clause (which contains the Well Regulated Militia part) does not over-ride the actionable clause "The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The People being a universal, therefore the right is extended to everyone.

And not only that, we have the various treatises and letters and Federalist papers that were written surrounding the creation of the Bill of Rights which clearly outline the intent.

husaberg

26th June 2022, 13:29

https://pm1.narvii.com/6429/a4daf5abb27c07b41dee0574a8dded6ec3aac4cf_hq.jpghtt ps://pics.me.me/if-you-could-reason-with-trump-supporters-thank-you-president-23278628.pnghttp://cf.broadsheet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/trump-fans.jpghttps://media.makeameme.org/created/arguing-with-trumpette.jpghttps://img.ifunny.co/images/84a037e7b5a6124d6d758f71970284ad27db51de23b21f016b 53a2777a9823fc_1.jpghttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/EPLlBUHU0AUEvbk.jpg

James Deuce

26th June 2022, 13:29

We've been through this, Multiple times.

Militia is interpreted as the Individual.
Well Regulated means 'ready to do their duty'.

And the perfunctory clause (which contains the Well Regulated Militia part) does not over-ride the actionable clause "The right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The People being a universal, therefore the right is extended to everyone.

And not only that, we have the various treatises and letters and Federalist papers that were written surrounding the creation of the Bill of Rights which clearly outline the intent.
Clearly not what was intended and is a modern interpretation by a bought and paid for Supreme Court. The only consistent thing about the US is the mental gymnastics they use to justify a morally untenable position in EVERYTHING they do. Something written in the 18th Century read by a 21st Century reader means something completely different to the reader. Archaic implied and documented meaning are lost over time and become subject to contextual distortion. The words on those pages do not mean precisely what we think they do now. Quite apart from all that, the US Constitution highlights the idiocy of a written constitution. It just becomes a dogmatic religious document who's original meaning becomes more and more distorted by personal interest and societal changes. You're wrong and so is the US Supreme Court. The Founding fathers had no concept of what "Gun Rights" have become in the US and thanks to the deification of the people and documents used to create the modern USA, they've even abandoned the idea of Amending the Constitution as society evolves. It's no longer a founding document. It's a religious text. And it is becoming increasingly intertwined with Christian fundamentalism.

Berries

26th June 2022, 13:39

We have Letters of Law that date back to documents that were written over 800 years old, and still relevant.
If relevant that's all fine and dandy, assuming the bit about burning witches at the stake has been revoked.

I however fail to see any relevance with the US gun laws when you compare late 18th century America to a 21st century supposedly modern power. They are still playing cowboys and indians for fucks sake.

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 13:57

Clearly not what was intended and is a modern interpretation by a bought and paid for Supreme Court. The only consistent thing about the US is the mental gymnastics they use to justify a morally untenable position in EVERYTHING they do. Something written in the 18th Century read by a 21st Century reader means something completely different to the reader. Archaic implied and documented meaning are lost over time and become subject to contextual distortion. The words on those pages do not mean precisely what we think they do now.

Okay, let's stop there for a second - what you've described is the difference between a Textual approach to the Constitution and an 'Living Constituion' approach to the Constitution.

Textualists tend to be Conservative and Living Constitution tends to be Democrat. The classic Examples are Justice Scalia (Textualism) and Justice Ginsberg (Living Constitution).

The problem is that there is a lot of supporting documentation around the Constitution. There is also a very long and very well documented History behind the Constitution. For example - Magna Carta has been cited in more Supreme Court decisions than anywhere else.

If you are trying to read the Law based on your own current subjective views, as opposed to what the original drafters of the Law actually meant, then it is you who is distorting what is meant.

The Textualists (such as Justice Thomas) are, quite rightly, saying 'The Constitution does not protect this as a right, therefore it goes back to the State Legislature to decide'

And we'll see - if States that pass strict Abortion laws get their representatives voted out and changed, then we will know it was the Will of the People, if not - then we will know it wasn't.

You're wrong and so is the US Supreme Court. The Founding fathers had no concept of what "Gun Rights" have become in the US

Objectively, I'm not wrong. And here's how I can prove it:

Does the US Constitution mention Abortion, anywhere? No it does not.
Does the US Constitution mention the right of the People to Bear Arms? Yes. Yes it does.

They had just fought a Civil War. They knew EXACTLY what they meant. That everyone should be armed to the teeth so as to defend themselves and to overthrow the Government if it become tyrannical.

And before anyone says - Yes, you absolutely could own a Cannon back then, hell you could even privately own an entire Warship (so, imagine Elon Musk decided to buy himself a Nimitz class Super-Carrier)

Quite apart from all that, the US Constitution highlights the idiocy of a written constitution. It just becomes a dogmatic religious document who's original meaning becomes more and more distorted by personal interest and societal changes.

....

and thanks to the deification of the people and documents used to create the modern USA, they've even abandoned the idea of Amending the Constitution as society evolves.

....

It's no longer a founding document. It's a religious text. And it is becoming increasingly intertwined with Christian fundamentalism.

See, I used to hold the English view - that an Unwritten Constitution enabled flexibility - then Jacinda happened - who pissed away multiple rights, without following the proper process, several of which were later found to be illegal (but our Human Rights Courts and other Legal establishments are/were too impotent to do anything about it) - so now I'm definitely in favor of a Written Constitution to act as a Balwark against Politicians like that.

But I'll pause for a moment and actually agree with you: Yes, Congress has been shirking it's responsibility to act as the Legislature on a multitude of issues, instead passing the buck to the Supreme Court. The simple solution is to add an Amendment, find something that has super-majority support (and therefore is the 'Will of the People') and boom - job done, Amendment passed, Constitution updated - you can now have whatever legal protections or changes you want.

If there isn't enough bi-partisan support or enough voting support, then it won't happen.

And finally - this is not Christian Fundamentalism. If it was, then the SC would have made Abortion federally illegal (and to be honest, they would have had good legal grounds to do so) - this is simply applying the Letter of the Law, as it should have been.

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 14:05

If relevant that's all fine and dandy, assuming the bit about burning witches at the stake has been revoked.

1736: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_Act_1735

I however fail to see any relevance with the US gun laws when you compare late 18th century America to a 21st century supposedly modern power. They are still playing cowboys and indians for fucks sake.

Why?

The US Gun laws in the 18th century were predicated on 2 ideas:

1: The Individuals right to Self-Defence. There are still individuals and there are still people who would do harm to them, so yes this is still relevant.
2: Overthrowing a Tyrannical Government. Governments still exist so there is still the possibility of them turning Tyrannical, so yes this is still relevant.

And allow me to raise 2 examples: If, as everyone seems to agree, that this ruling is some great moral injustice and that the US Government has become tyrannical, US Citizens know what they have to do.

Secondly, Ukraine - that was a Modern Power, with pretty liberal Firearm laws proving the point that the Founding Fathers predicated this right upon: Shit happens, you don't know when it's going to happen, so you'd better have the tools to deal with it when it does.

Berries

26th June 2022, 15:22

Why?
Because amongst other things a civilised society has, now all the injuns have been dealt with, is a Police force which should, in an ideal world, negate the need for armed civilians roaming the streets and a professional army to deter outside forces a la your Ukraine example.

husaberg

26th June 2022, 15:23

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8319829/gun_homicides_developed_countries.0.jpg
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/b0uYBKHIrlm6WudnThFqoZ9gNvw=/0x0:1916x1721/1320x0/filters:focal(0x0:1916x1721):format(webp):no_upsca le()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/12543393/GUN_SCATTER2.jpg
https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/10328651/CRIME_15_COUNTRIES_US.jpg
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/2SRBWK6IIRB7PB6T4RMEKYB63A.png&w=767https://static01.nyt.com/images/2017/11/07/world/interpreter-guns-image/interpreter-guns-image-superJumbo.png
https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/9923/production/_124930293_worst_mass_shootings_uvalde_2x640-nc.png

What share of all murders and suicides in the U.S. involve a gun?
Nearly eight-in-ten (79%) U.S. murders in 2020 – 19,384 out of 24,576 – involved a firearm

How has the number of U.S. gun deaths changed over time?
The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.

Gun murders, in particular, have climbed sharply in recent years. The 19,384 gun murders that took place in 2020 were the most since at least 1968, exceeding the previous peak of 18,253 recorded by the CDC in 1993. The 2020 total represented a 34% increase from the year before, a 49% increase over five years and a 75% increase over 10 years.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/FT_22.01.26_GunDeaths_4.png
351378351379351380

America has the weakest gun laws and the most guns—393 million—of any comparable nation.2
The US accounts for just 4% of the world’s population but 35% of global firearm suicides.
Americans are 25 times more likely to be killed in a gun homicide than people in other high-income countries

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 15:57

Because amongst other things a civilised society has, now all the injuns have been dealt with, is a Police force which should, in an ideal world, negate the need for armed civilians roaming the streets and a professional army to deter outside forces a la your Ukraine example.

I've highlighted the key point.

They don't - Take Uvalde for example (since it's topical) - it wasn't stopped by the Police force, it was stopped by a Private Citizen, with a Privately owned Firearm (Yes, he was a Border Patrol agent, but he wasn't there in any official capacity)

Secondly - The US is big, Vast even - and as the phrase goes "When Seconds count, the Police are only Minutes away"

Thirdly - The US will point to many countries in the 20th century that had both a Police force and Professional army and subjected it's citizens to murderous tyranny.

Finally, specifically on the Ukraine, They had a Standing army - didn't deter outside forces - What was the quote from Yamamoto? "Behind every blade of Grass will be a Rifle"?

Berries

26th June 2022, 15:57

Your first graph says "advanced" countries.

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 16:07

Usual Copy Pasta images

However, several curious things to note - firstly that the first graph is wrong/misleading - because I know that Switzerlands Homocide rate with Firearms is comparable to NZs, however they do have a higher suicide rate, which is what is being included in that graph.

Mainly just pointing this out to show that your sources are dishonest, as they are including Suicides (which is commonly done).

But I also want to point out that the Violent/Non-Violent crimes list, that YOU provided, I notice some curious instances.

Australia and the UK are both the highest, which given the time period, are within a decade or so of their most restrictive Gun Legislation...

Whereas the US, Switzerland and Finland (all countries with high rates of Gun Ownership, Switzerland and Finland also allowing private ownership of Full Autos/Service Rifles) all have low rates. Your graphs seem to prove that having a well-armed population is a good deterrent for Violent Crime.

sugilite

26th June 2022, 18:49

husaberg

26th June 2022, 19:25

Trump declares US anti-abortion ruling a decision made by God

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAgTZSJ4jo8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFruUe4CEQ0

James Deuce

26th June 2022, 19:47

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 20:08

TheDemonLord

26th June 2022, 20:19

What share of all murders and suicides in the U.S. involve a gun?
Nearly eight-in-ten (79%) U.S. murders in 2020 – 19,384 out of 24,576 – involved a firearm

Your stat says 'Murders and Suicides', then says just Murders. Nothing Dishonest there.

How has the number of U.S. gun deaths changed over time?
The 45,222 total gun deaths in 2020 were by far the most on record, representing a 14% increase from the year before, a 25% increase from five years earlier and a 43% increase from a decade prior.

Gun Deaths - so that includes Suicides - I wonder what happened in 2020 that made so many people feel suicidal... Maybe people loosing their Business, their Loved Ones, their rights, Maybe Riots and looting....

Gun murders, in particular, have climbed sharply in recent years. The 19,384 gun murders that took place in 2020 were the most since at least 1968, exceeding the previous peak of 18,253 recorded by the CDC in 1993. The 2020 total represented a 34% increase from the year before, a 49% increase over five years and a 75% increase over 10 years.

Must have been those Mostly Peaceful protests....

351378351379351380

Deaths? so that Includes suicides then - perhaps the Fear Mongering over Covid has something to answer for with the high Suicide rate?

But if you exclude 2020 as an outlier - the biggest Killer is Car Accidents - so one might presume that if you force people to stay indoors, stop them from living their life - they don't die on the road, but they choose to off themselves.

R650R

26th June 2022, 22:36

Seems to me that now the supreme court has been packed with lying pollies, woman may now consider that since their rights are now less than what their grandmothers had, the Government is now tyrannical. Time to form a militia, take up arms, put a few bullets in several supreme justice heads, and a few pro gun republican heads while they are at it. I would imagine the 2nd amendment would get amended in a few days - if not hours. :ar15::ar15::ar15::ar15:
I mean, who gets to decide when the government is tyrannical? Must be what ever militia decides right. Pollies only give a shit over stuff that effects them directly, so go to it ladies - fill em with lead.

Women today have same rights as their grandmothers they just choose not to use them. Their grandmothers had the right to choose a suitable mating partner. They had right to not have sex if they didnÂ’t want to.
TodayÂ’s women want to treat their bodies like an amusement park without any care for the consequences of actions. They were blessed with certain organs for the survival of the species as were men along similar lines along with a inherent personal responsibility to use for intended purpose only, not for frequent random entertainment.
Few people realise where the modern abortion movement came from. Google Margery Sanger ....
In early 1900Â’s Eugenics societies were all so popular Â“ getting rid ofÂ” handicapped or defective kids was socially acceptable. Then hitler came along and over did it and made it look less rosey and thatÂ’s when American outfit changed its name to Â“ planned parenthoodÂ”
The goal in making abortion a normalised and acceltable practice was to try and stop the poor and uneducated from breeding so much.
But it backfired on them going from eugenics to dysgenics as the poor had little to lose from being pregnant and perhaps with spending more time with family couldnÂ’t stomach the idea.
Anyhow so the outcome is that primarily higher educated career woman get abortions so as not to interrupt their career goals.
And we see the result in modern societies gene pool....
ItÂ’s for the good of humanity that it shouldnÂ’t be normal or Â“easyÂ” to get an abortion.
Yes a woman should be able to choose but there should be robust support and criteria to get one.
Sadly justvlike any problem a govt interferes with itÂ’s always a sledgehammer cracking a walnut.
LetÂ’s not forget unless your the Virgin Mary thereÂ’s one surevfire way to never need an abortion...,,

sugilite

27th June 2022, 12:01

The average Muh Gun Rights hillbilly won't see any issue with this at all. There is also the outright fact that any armed rebellion would be over in hours. The may have lots of guns on the wall, but they face a government that doesn't need to engage inside small arms range, and who will respond without regard to collateral damage. They've been practising that sort of shit in other people's countries for quite a few decades. After all, the only way to effectively defend your own borders is from within someone else's borders.

Absolutely, it just shows how absurd this 2nd amendment militia bullshit really is. As if a militia would stand any chance against Government forces. But they are willing to let thousands die a year to prop up the facade a militia could possibly overthrow a tyrannical Government.

Amendments by the nature of their name can be amended, but pollies just want to have it in place as is to wind up their thick as pig shit bases that their "rights" are under threat. :rolleyes: Carnage be damned, as long as the pollies have their snouts in that trough.

sugilite

27th June 2022, 12:06

Women today have same rights as their grandmothers they just choose not to use them. Their grandmothers had the right to choose a suitable mating partner. They had right to not have sex if they didnÂ’t want to.
TodayÂ’s women want to treat their bodies like an amusement park without any care for the consequences of actions. They were blessed with certain organs for the survival of the species as were men along similar lines along with a inherent personal responsibility to use for intended purpose only, not for frequent random entertainment.
Few people realise where the modern abortion movement came from. Google Margery Sanger ....
In early 1900Â’s Eugenics societies were all so popular Â“ getting rid ofÂ” handicapped or defective kids was socially acceptable. Then hitler came along and over did it and made it look less rosey and thatÂ’s when American outfit changed its name to Â“ planned parenthoodÂ”
The goal in making abortion a normalised and acceltable practice was to try and stop the poor and uneducated from breeding so much.
But it backfired on them going from eugenics to dysgenics as the poor had little to lose from being pregnant and perhaps with spending more time with family couldnÂ’t stomach the idea.
Anyhow so the outcome is that primarily higher educated career woman get abortions so as not to interrupt their career goals.
And we see the result in modern societies gene pool....
ItÂ’s for the good of humanity that it shouldnÂ’t be normal or Â“easyÂ” to get an abortion.
Yes a woman should be able to choose but there should be robust support and criteria to get one.
Sadly justvlike any problem a govt interferes with itÂ’s always a sledgehammer cracking a walnut.
LetÂ’s not forget unless your the Virgin Mary thereÂ’s one surevfire way to never need an abortion...,,

A blatant copy and paste job from a male chauvinist pig.
Do you not have the ability to articulate your thoughts into your own words?

TheDemonLord

27th June 2022, 12:29

Absolutely, it just shows how absurd this 2nd amendment militia bullshit really is. As if a militia would stand any chance against Government forces. But they are willing to let thousands die a year to prop up the facade a militia could possibly overthrow a tyrannical Government.

Amendments by the nature of their name can be amended, but pollies just want to have it in place as is to wind up their thick as pig shit bases that their "rights" are under threat. :rolleyes: Carnage be damned, as long as the pollies have their snouts in that trough.

I used to agree, that without combined arms, an armed rebellion against the US was doomed to failure.

However - recent experience, particularly Afghanistan, shows that even with Technological superiority, it's boots on the ground that take, hold and control territory.

Which is ~1 million Service members, assuming that Posse Comitatus is suspended and assuming that none of the Military side with the Militia. Let's add in all the Law Enforcement officers as well, and again - presuming that none of them side with the Militia, that's an extra 696,644 - let's round it up and say a total fighting force of 2 million.

In terms of Households with Guns (given that there are more guns than people in the US) - the Stats I found from CNN say 4/10 households have a Gun - which gives an approximate militia strength of 120 MILLION Militia.

If only a fraction - 1/10th decide to take up the fight, that's an army of 12 million.

a 6:1 advantage for the home team is nothing to scoff at.

And here's a question - how many Democrats have actually proposed an Amendment to 2A? None as far as I can tell.

The closest I can find is an idea penned by a former SC Justice, in 2012 on how he would amend the 2nd amendment. Strangely - no Democrat since has taken up this call (although I did see the opinion re-printed this year in the Washington Post)

I've made the point before, but I think it's worth making it again - yes, Amendments can be Amended and in order to do so, there needs to be strong political Will and strong public support - yet not even the bravest and most fervent anti-Gun Democrat politician dares suggest it - because such an utterance would be Political Suicide.

R650R

27th June 2022, 15:09

A blatant copy and paste job from a male chauvinist pig.
Do you not have the ability to articulate your thoughts into your own words?

Can you please link the source material to substantiate that allegation. You only need to cut and paste a couple sentqces and google will take you to “ the single source of truth” if your right....

I see in. Dailymail article (not linked) that a lot of female activists are promising a Sex Strike (except of course if they are trying to get pregnant-they A TULY said that). Somehow I doubt they will have the same resolve as coal miners.
On the plus side it will have great benefits to the gene pool and men at nightclubs will know the political affiliation of any prospects without having to ask. Nothing worse than picking up a leftist enviro nutter whose aggrieved at the lack of use of your recycling bins lol

How dare the govt make people accountable for their lifestyle choices ;)

I’m off to buy shares in AA size battery manufacturers

TheDemonLord

27th June 2022, 16:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lokz305MALc

A fantastic breakdown of why the SC made the decision they did.

Kickaha

27th June 2022, 17:53

What was the quote from Yamamoto? "Behind every blade of Grass will be a Rifle"?

Except he didn't ever say that

TheDemonLord

27th June 2022, 18:25

Except he didn't ever say that

Well, that was an interesting read - you're correct, no primary source for the attribution.

Berries

28th June 2022, 00:32

I’m off to buy shares in AA size battery manufacturers
I am going to guess that a number of people on here won't be surprised by that admission.

Laava

28th June 2022, 07:34

I am going to guess that a number of people on here won't be surprised by that admission.
Lols, you must spread etc…

TheDemonLord

28th June 2022, 09:19

In case anyone is wanting a good laugh - Google 'Justice Dankula', behold the gloriousness of a Scottish shitposter and Troll with a superbly photoshopped image as his Profile, convincing multiple americans that he is a sitting SCOTUS Justice...

Lots of people like to say that Trump followers are blind devotees, but I mean....

pritch

28th June 2022, 09:23

I see in. Dailymail article (not linked) that a lot of female activists are promising a Sex Strike

I've seen reference to similar suggestions on Twitter. There was a women's strike in Iceland or somewhere that was successul apparently. It wasn't juat about sex though, there was no talk, no cooking, no dishes, no laundry, no nothing.

TheDemonLord

28th June 2022, 09:33

R650R

28th June 2022, 09:47

I've seen reference to similar suggestions on Twitter. There was a women's strike in Iceland or somewhere that was successul apparently. It wasn't juat about sex though, there was no talk, no cooking, no dishes, no laundry, no nothing.

Anecdotal reports from unnamed sources inside out outside of the pentagon suggest that is sadly very normal, good wives are hard to come by....
A great Babylon bee headline this morning Â“Reports emerge 0% of men affected by feminist sex strikeÂ”

Anyhow back to the issue today I saw a female friends fakebook post saying out of 25 million abortions 37,000 women died.... as a percentage thatÂ’s not high especially if you look at other risky medical procedures so I went in search of credible stats....

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4554338/

1998-2010 in USA 16 million abortions and 108 deaths

And if we go to the gospel of the world health organisation

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/abortion

45% of abortions are unsafe (presumably thatÂ’s before RockWader being overturned as no time for new stats yet) BUT the kicker is 97% of those are performed in DEVELOPING countries aka the third world.

So the reality is very little women in western nations will be at risk and in NZ ZERO women will be at risk as in our political climate there is no appetite for change. ItÂ’s just our media and political parties grandstanding for ratings and distractions to play he usual game.
Even in USA all it means is a greyhound bus ride to a sympathetic state thatÂ’s pro abortion, not sure on price of public transport but I suspect condoms are cheaper tha bus tickets.

And who knows maybe a women will end up giving birth to a new Einstein or Elon musk oh bugger I forgot heÂ’s from South Africa.