Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[R650R]

Look at these arseholes. Trump invited them to visit him. They announced after their meeting with Trump, "we will follow the law and follow the normal process regarding Michigan’s electors."

It seems Trump then put them up in his hotel, piss up until midnight, presumably drinks on Trump which would account for the $795 bottle of Champagne.

A day later they are seeking to delay the election result.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-5503061

Got another link before I declare fake news, error 404 page not found, that’s bbc saying 404 not my browser

[R650R]

You start off with a wrong assumption. We know now how much federal tax he has paid, US$750.00 last year. (A bit less than the $795.00 he charges for a bottle of Dom Perignon in his NY hotel.) IIRC he paid no federal tax for eight of the last twenty years.

What they really want is to see is the values he has assigned various assets in his tax records. They'd then check those against the values stated in his bank records and his insurance records. Significant variations would make him liable for fraud charges. There are already witnesses say he does this, but the prosecutors need to see the paper work. All of it.

The power of IRD tax investigators is well known.
If there was anything to see they would have seen it well before the presidency even given that trump has ruffled a few feathers over the years.
One false allegation after another, no one has anything on him...

[pritch]

Got another link before I declare fake news, error 404 page not found, that’s bbc saying 404 not my browser

Google would've sorted it. The story, sometimes with pics, is all over the place.

Anyhoo try this link: https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55030617

[pete376403]

The power of IRD tax investigators is well known.
If there was anything to see they would have seen it well before the presidency even given that trump has ruffled a few feathers over the years.
One false allegation after another, no one has anything on him...


Not quite - the IRS seem to have been particularly lenient towards the entire trump empire, from fred down - This is a big read, not too many pictures, could be a challenge for some here. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/02/us/politics/donald-trump-tax-schemes-fred-trump.html

[Laava]

. He wiped out Isis then pulled the troops out of Syria saving lives and money, no more need to be there.
He did what now?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/300164660/mortar-shells-hit-afghan-capital-kabul-at-least-8-dead

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/mX2S_II2S-Y

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/sW69YMFdjnc

[Kickaha]

Does anyone actually take Gulliani seriously and believe he has the evidence to back any of his rantings up ?

[mashman]

Does anyone actually take Gulliani seriously and believe he has the evidence to back any of his rantings up ?

Some ballots cannot be verified. Yes, that is backed up by very basic logic, reason and common sense... as are the other ways that voter fraud is aledged to be able to take place. Whether those ballots should be a part of any recount or not is a point of contention... and rightly so, but hey, the affidavits (evidence) being put forwards raise some concerns that fraud has taken place at a digital level also. I reckon they should leave things alone for another 4 years, because the last 4 really haven't been that bad and have been really entertaining is so many unexpected ways.

[pete376403]

Some ballots cannot be verified. Yes, that is backed up by very basic logic, reason and common sense... as are the other ways that voter fraud is aledged to be able to take place. Whether those ballots should be a part of any recount or not is a point of contention... and rightly so, but hey, the affidavits (evidence) being put forwards raise some concerns that fraud has taken place at a digital level also. I reckon they should leave things alone for another 4 years, because the last 4 really haven't been that bad and have been really entertaining is so many unexpected ways.

Not that bad, indeed really entertaining for over 1/4 million US covid victims and their families, eh?

[pritch]

Does anyone actually take Gulliani seriously and believe he has the evidence to back any of his rantings up ?

Nobody with a clue, and no.

If he had any evidence he would have produced it already at any one of the thirty odd cases they've lost. When the judges ask if he is alleging fraud, he is quick to say that he is not. He can say anything he likes next to porno places and landscaping businesses, but in court he has to stick to facts - and he hasn't got any. The opinion of one professor of constitutional and electoral law is that Rudy's performance is not about the law, it's theatre for Trump's base.

Rudy's colleague Sidney is now accusing named politicians of taking bribes. If her evidence for that isn't a whole lot better than the insanity she's been spouting so far, she could be in trouble.

Meanwhile Trump is moving to his Plan B: delay the election certification process in chosen states.

His plan C will likely be an attempt to corrupt the electoral college process.

[mashman]

Not that bad, indeed really entertaining for over 1/4 million US covid victims and their families, eh?

On virtually every front, with regards to Covid, there is evidence for and against taking certain actions. Evidence that comes from highly respected professionals from around the globe, yet for some reason that advice is glaringly contradictory to the other with regards to the best way forwards. But no, it's all Trumps fault? Fucksake, the previous administration, who during business as usual, lied their way into a war that has seen approximately 400,000 people killed and millions displaced overseas. Maybe explain that to the families of the dead and displaced and who already know that land and resource grabs and the destablization of government is responsible for the death and exodus. Would you rather we had that time all over again? Yeah, not that bad, unless you have the memory of a goldfish.

[Indiana_Jones]

Is orange man still bad?

[TheDemonLord]

Some ballots cannot be verified. Yes, that is backed up by very basic logic, reason and common sense... as are the other ways that voter fraud is aledged to be able to take place. Whether those ballots should be a part of any recount or not is a point of contention... and rightly so, but hey, the affidavits (evidence) being put forwards raise some concerns that fraud has taken place at a digital level also. I reckon they should leave things alone for another 4 years, because the last 4 really haven't been that bad and have been really entertaining is so many unexpected ways.

Holy Shit!

We agree on something!

[pritch]

It's all over Twitter but hasn't made the main news organisations yet, but apparently Giuliani has announced that Sidney Powell is no longer working either for the Trump campaign or for Trump personally. Can you imagine how bad a lawyer has to be to be fired by Rudy Giuliani?

She spoke of evidence of election fraud arriving as if from a firehose confirming electronic voting machines switching votes. She invoked the ghost of Hugo Chavez who has been dead for years. She produced no evidence. Apparently it existed only in her disordered mind. And the similarly disordered minds of anybody gullible enough to believe her fantasies.

[sugilite]

It's all over Twitter but hasn't made the main news organisations yet, but apparently Giuliani has announced that Sidney Powell is no longer working either for the Trump campaign or for Trump personally. Can you imagine how bad a lawyer has to be to be fired by Rudy Giuliani?

She spoke of evidence of election fraud arriving as if from a firehose confirming electronic voting machines switching votes. She invoked the ghost of Hugo Chaves who has been dead for years. She produced no evidence. Apparently it existed only in her disordered mind. And the similarly disordered minds of anybody gullible enough to believe her fantasies.

Yep, it is official, Rudi says she does not work for them or the president. Even though she stood right beside him and spoke to the press just days ago. You cannot make this shit up :laugh:


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-legal-team-sidney-powell-giuliani-electoral-fraud-venezuela-b1760108.html

[R650R]

Yep, it is official, Rudi says she does not work for them or the president. Even though she stood right beside him and spoke to the press just days ago. You cannot make this shit up :laugh:


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-legal-team-sidney-powell-giuliani-electoral-fraud-venezuela-b1760108.html

That’s capitalism for you. Outsourcing, private contractors, fixed term contracts, no jobs for life lol

😉 😂😂😂

[husaberg]

Yep, it is official, Rudi says she does not work for them or the president. Even though she stood right beside him and spoke to the press just days ago. You cannot make this shit up :laugh:


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-legal-team-sidney-powell-giuliani-electoral-fraud-venezuela-b1760108.html

We will add that to the list of people that are involved with Trump and then trump disavows all knowledge of later.

https://www.businessinsider.com/people-trump-said-he-didnt-know-but-did-photos?r=AU&IR=T#george-conway-5
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/23/impeachment-hearings-times-trump-said-he-didnt-know-acquaintances/4253186002/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3yKSNdGCbU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XloKL9Fwet8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUILpMhSJjs

[RDJ]

It's not incredible - because given the strict nature of the term, it is definitely credible as so many KB pixels are dispensed by practitioners of Trump Derangement Syndrome - but it is definitely noteworthy how supremely invested some people here are on whether Trump succeeds Superlatively or fails Dismally.

I don't see why. We are here, and he is there. Whether Trump or Biden get in, in January, the consequences can be very significant for New Zealand, yet completely unalterable by us.

Well, everybody has to believe in something. I believe that with a day off tomorrow, I'm gonna top off the Gas, put on most of the Gear, crank up the V-twin, and Ride. & I'm pretty sure that neither Girl-Groping Hair-Sniffing Joe, nor Kamala Knee-Pads Harris, care either way.

[pritch]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bill-pascrell-disbarment-rudy-giuliani-trump-election_n_5fbaf260c5b6e4b1ea4399a5

[pritch]

Trump thinks his lawyers are fools making him look bad. Well, nobody ever accused him of being quick on the uptake. After having over thirty cases tosssed out, and now the Supreme Court has refused to hear his case, he has finally seen the light.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-fears-giuliani-other-lawyers-in-biden-vote-challenge-are-fools-that-are-making-him-look-bad/ar-BB1bhVCe

[R650R]

Trump thinks his lawyers are fools making him look bad. Well, nobody ever accused him of being quick on the uptake. After having over thirty cases tosssed out, and now the Supreme Court has refused to hear his case, he has finally seen the light.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-fears-giuliani-other-lawyers-in-biden-vote-challenge-are-fools-that-are-making-him-look-bad/ar-BB1bhVCe

That is exactly what I was talking about earlier about poor reporting.
Nothing new and just unnamed sources, eg some b grade reporter churned out this article knowing it’s never gonna get challenged.
“ the press conference, a person familiar with the president's reaction told NBC News.”
“team, a person familiar with the president's thinking gave a profane shoulder shrug of an answer.

"Who the f--- knows?" that person said to NBC News”

[sugilite]

Nooooo! Keep fighting it Donald, the comedy show of ineptness from your lawyers has been so entertaining thus far!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300166350/trump-clears-way-for-joe-bidens-transition-to-white-house

[pritch]

That is exactly what I was talking about earlier about poor reporting.
Nothing new and just unnamed sources, eg some b grade reporter churned out this article knowing it’s never gonna get challenged.
“ the press conference, a person familiar with the president's reaction told NBC News.”
“team, a person familiar with the president's thinking gave a profane shoulder shrug of an answer.

"Who the f--- knows?" that person said to NBC News”

A moments thought would tell any normal person that “unnamed sources” will be with us forever. Particularly when dealing with a temperamental arsehole like Trump who fires anyone who he feels is not sufficiently loyal to him. Even if their remaining loyal would have meant they were breaking the law.

At least “unnamed sources” is better than “sources close to the Royal family.” That latter is meant to imply you are reading about something from somebody who is friendly with, or works for, the royals. What it normally means is that a royal reporter is interviewing his own keyboard.

[sugilite]

I also believe that we will see him re-elected.


Well, now we have seen Trump come as close as he will ever get to officially conceding - as in him finally telling his staff to cooperate with President Elect Bidens transition team. Are you ready to concede Trump has lost the election? and in a fair n square manner- since the Trump lawyers have failed miserably to come up with any hard proof?

For the record it was closer than I anticipated. I will be sure to totally ignore polls in 2024. :laugh:

[Banditbandit]

Fucksake, the previous administration, who during business as usual, lied their way into a war that has seen approximately 400,000 people killed and millions displaced overseas.

And which war would that be??

[Banditbandit]

On virtually every front, with regards to Covid, there is evidence for and against taking certain actions. Evidence that comes from highly respected professionals from around the globe, yet for some reason that advice is glaringly contradictory to the other with regards to the best way forwards.


So - the USA has something like 4.5% of the world's population - and now has 20% of all Covid-19 deaths across the world ..

I think that's pretty good evidence that the actions they have taken are not working ..

[Viking01]

And which war would that be??

Think that might well be Syria:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

[slofox]

So - the USA has something like 4.5% of the world's population - and now has 20% of all Covid-19 deaths across the world ...

It's a start...:whistle:

[mashman]

And which war would that be??


Think that might well be Syria:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War

Wot ee sed.


So - the USA has something like 4.5% of the world's population - and now has 20% of all Covid-19 deaths across the world ..

I think that's pretty good evidence that the actions they have taken are not working ..

The country of most vaccinations too :shifty:... anyhoo, I defer to DJT at this time when he stated that if more tests were done more cases would be found, and given the questionable testing methods being used (professionals said so) and the fact that cash incentives were offered to attribute cause of death to Covid, and let's not forget the politicisation potential of it all, there is enough evidence to question the number you put forwards. I Am not saying that the numbers you put up are wrong, but there is a large body of evidence that's saying that the testing methods being used are highly likely to return gobbledygook as an answer.

[pete376403]

Finally giving up? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/trump-biden-transition-gsa-tweet-election-b1760748.html

[F5 Dave]

Wot ee sed.



The country of most vaccinations too :shifty:... anyhoo, I defer to DJT at this time when he stated that if more tests were done more cases would be found, and given the questionable testing methods being used (professionals said so) and the fact that cash incentives were offered to attribute cause of death to Covid, and let's not forget the politicisation potential of it all, there is enough evidence to question the number you put forwards. I Am not saying that the numbers you put up are wrong, but there is a large body of evidence that's saying that the testing methods being used are highly likely to return gobbledygook as an answer.
Is that you Rudy?

[pritch]

Is that you Rudy?

Rudy, Sidney, or Trump himself?
"And the fact that cash incentives were offered to attribute cause of death to Covid."
That sentence redefines the word "fact."

"The country with most vaccinations."
Russia? According to my entirely unofficial count the score so far is:
Germany 1
USA 1
Britain 1
Russia 3 - and counting? (A new vaccine every day - if you believe Putin.)

No doubt some people will mistakenly credit the German BioNTech vaccine to the USA. Theirs was the first (after the Russians) although most of the coverage came from the US because a US company was working with BioNTech to develop the vaccine. That's the one that has to be stored at -70c or thereabout. Trump claimed credit for the vaccine when it was announced but had no involvement, but then he has a long history of claiming credit for things he had nothing to do with.

BioNTech was founded by a Greek/Turkish immigrant couple in Germany, it now has operations in several countries.

[Viking01]

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/507605-biden-obama-nostalgia-cabinet/

Looks like MAGA is now "out", and "muscular US foreign policy" is back "in".

[SaferRides]

Rudy, Sidney, or Trump himself?
"And the fact that cash incentives were offered to attribute cause of death to Covid."
That sentence redefines the word "fact."

"The country with most vaccinations."
Russia? According to my entirely unofficial count the score so far is:
Germany 1
USA 1
Britain 1
Russia 3 - and counting? (A new vaccine every day - if you believe Putin.)

No doubt some people will mistakenly credit the German BioNTech vaccine to the USA. Theirs was the first (after the Russians) although most of the coverage came from the US because a US company was working with BioNTech to develop the vaccine. That's the one that has to be stored at -70c or thereabout. Trump claimed credit for the vaccine when it was announced but had no involvement, but then he has a long history of claiming credit for things he had nothing to do with.

BioNTech was founded by a Greek/Turkish immigrant couple in Germany, it now has operations in several countries.You've overlooked China. I think they have at least 3, although their idea of trials is a little different to the West.

[mashman]

Rudy, Sidney, or Trump himself?
"And the fact that cash incentives were offered to attribute cause of death to Covid."
That sentence redefines the word "fact."


If ya had a Covid patient or could prove a Covid death, then more money was paid to manage those patients. No redefinition there, just a straight up fact.


"The country with most vaccinations."

The quote was


The country of most vaccinations too

Is that you MSM? coz you sure as hell write like it.

[pritch]

If ya had a Covid patient or could prove a Covid death, then more money was paid to manage those patients. No redefinition there, just a straight up fact.


Straight up "low information voter" level stuff. That was rubbish spouted by Trump and his sycophants which is believed to have no basis in fact. If you can produce a reputable source I'll be pleased to read it. And I do mean reputable, not the fantasy stuff you normally seem to read.

[sugilite]

Bwaaaa Haaa haaa Keep donating to the orange god losers :lol:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MORLJJbnKuo

[mashman]

Straight up "low information voter" level stuff. That was rubbish spouted by Trump and his sycophants which is believed to have no basis in fact. If you can produce a reputable source I'll be pleased to read it. And I do mean reputable, not the fantasy stuff you normally seem to read.

I do not class the below as any more reputable as a source than what I left on the paper this morning. Information is important no matter what the source. In this case, the provisions in place were pretty well reported through the MSM... but I guess that didn't fit your conspiracy agenda to hear that huh. TDS kicked in a little hard today huh.

Oh yes, the insult. Honestly it's the usual, You'd have to be a fucking idiot to believe half of the stuff you post. I pass most of it off as troll, but you do leave me wondering sometimes.

Partly false claim: Hospitals get compensated 15% more when they admit, discharge, or lose a patient to COVID-19; New York City hospitals are inflating their case numbers to take advantage (https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-more-money-for-covid-cases-idUSKBN22I2KR)

[pritch]

I do not class the below as any more reputable as a source than what I left on the paper this morning. Information is important no matter what the source. In this case, the provisions in place were pretty well reported through the MSM... but I guess that didn't fit your conspiracy agenda to hear that huh. TDS kicked in a little hard today huh.

Oh yes, the insult. Honestly it's the usual, You'd have to be a fucking idiot to believe half of the stuff you post. I pass most of it off as troll, but you do leave me wondering sometimes.


Reuters qualifies as a reputable source, thanks. I saw Trump accuse the medical profession of infating prices, I saw outrage from the medical community. As yet I've seen nothing to indicate it wasn't just another Trump fantasy. That Reuters item doesn't say anybody was guilty of inflating prices. There was a higher rate paid for COVID patients than some others, but saying that incentivised doctors to misdiagnose patients is drawing a long bow. I've still seen nothing to say it happened, let alone was as wide spread as the idiot in chief claimed. Maybe one day?

I regard Trump's claims such as this one, and the claim that they have more cases because they do more testing to be idiot level stuff. He still finds people who believe his lies. All 23,000 odd of them - and counting.

If you feel so negative about what i post here, don't read it. Ii's not compulsory.

[pritch]

To lighten the mood... Y'all will be aware that the Republican Party emblem is an elephant, and the Democrat emblem is a donkey.

Herewith, from Twitter, a poem about uniting the country - sort of.

The election is over.
The results are known.
So let us work together
and forget the past.
I will hug your elephant.
You can kiss my ass.

[Viking01]

Reuters qualifies as a reputable source, thanks. I saw Trump accuse the medical profession of infating prices, I saw outrage from the medical community. As yet I've seen nothing to indicate it wasn't just another Trump fantasy. That Reuters item doesn't say anybody was guilty of inflating prices. There was a higher rate paid for COVID patients than some others, but saying that incentivised doctors to misdiagnose patients is drawing a long bow. I've still seen nothing to say it happened, let alone was as wide spread as the idiot in chief claimed. Maybe one day?

I regard Trump's claims such as this one, and the claim that they have more cases because they do more testing to be idiot level stuff. He still finds people who believe his lies. All 23,000 odd of them - and counting.

If you feel so negative about what i post here, don't read it. Ii's not compulsory.

Perhaps there needs to be some distinction between medical professionals (e.g. doctors) and the organisations / administrations that runs the hospitals in which they operate (and who will have more of a profit focus).

In NYC, there were certainly claims earlier this year that:
- the numbers of emergency beds and respirators in some privatised hospitals have continued to be run down in past years (in the name of "efficiency" i.e. cost savings)

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/04/02/%e2%80%a2-corporate-media-ignores-how-privatization-of-hospitals-explains-lack-of-beds-ventilators/

- it was possible for hospital administration to claim varying amounts for "Covid patients", according to the treatment (e.g. respirator used) and the reimbursing entity (e.g. Medicare)

https://www.globalresearch.ca/hospitals-getting-paid-more-label-cause-death-coronavirus/5709720

In the latter case, the senator is both a doctor and a Republican senator. [ I'm deliberately ignoring that the video clip was a Fox News interview ]

So while doctors involved with treating patients might (rightfully) get up in arms due to being branded as "gougers", perhaps the organisations / administrations running those hospitals may well be willing to take advantage of opportunities for higher reimbursement.

And given the level of "gouging" being performed by US pharmaceutical companies in the past few years for even basic medicines (e.g. insulin), I'd be quite surprised if some US hospital organisations - operating in this neoliberal world - were not doing so (to ensure ongoing profitability as well as to cover operating costs).

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2019/04/11/drug-companies-price-gouging-an-utterly-corrupt-system-cant-and-wont-fix-itself/

[mashman]

Reuters qualifies as a reputable source, thanks. I saw Trump accuse the medical profession of infating prices, I saw outrage from the medical community. As yet I've seen nothing to indicate it wasn't just another Trump fantasy. That Reuters item doesn't say anybody was guilty of inflating prices. There was a higher rate paid for COVID patients than some others, but saying that incentivised doctors to misdiagnose patients is drawing a long bow. I've still seen nothing to say it happened, let alone was as wide spread as the idiot in chief claimed. Maybe one day?

I regard Trump's claims such as this one, and the claim that they have more cases because they do more testing to be idiot level stuff. He still finds people who believe his lies. All 23,000 odd of them - and counting.

If you feel so negative about what i post here, don't read it. Ii's not compulsory.

It is compulsory. Carry on.

[mashman]

Perhaps there needs to be some distinction between medical professionals (e.g. doctors) and the organisations / administrations that runs the hospitals in which they operate (and who will have more of a profit focus).

In NYC, there were certainly claims earlier this year that:
- the numbers of emergency beds and respirators in some privatised hospitals have continued to be run down in past years (in the name of "efficiency" i.e. cost savings)

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2020/04/02/%e2%80%a2-corporate-media-ignores-how-privatization-of-hospitals-explains-lack-of-beds-ventilators/

- it was possible for hospital administration to claim varying amounts for "Covid patients", according to the treatment (e.g. respirator used) and the reimbursing entity (e.g. Medicare)

https://www.globalresearch.ca/hospitals-getting-paid-more-label-cause-death-coronavirus/5709720

In the latter case, the senator is both a doctor and a Republican senator. [ I'm deliberately ignoring that the video clip was a Fox News interview ]

So while doctors involved with treating patients might (rightfully) get up in arms due to being branded as "gougers", perhaps the organisations / administrations running those hospitals may well be willing to take advantage of opportunities for higher reimbursement.

And given the level of "gouging" being performed by US pharmaceutical companies in the past few years for even basic medicines (e.g. insulin), I'd be quite surprised if some US hospital organisations - operating in this neoliberal world - were not doing so (to ensure ongoing profitability as well as to cover operating costs).

https://www.greanvillepost.com/2019/04/11/drug-companies-price-gouging-an-utterly-corrupt-system-cant-and-wont-fix-itself/

... as well as taking into account that a former chief scientist of pfizer says that the data collected thus far is rubbish given the numbers of cycles that samples go through renders them useless. Where the testing is useless and the data is bullshit, then it is entirely possible for no medical professional/administration to undertake any "fraud" given that they rely wholly on test results. Some people just can't think past their own bias. If the tests are wrong and you do more tests, you are guaranteed to get more positives that are false given the methodology being used. QED without "blame".

[R650R]

To lighten the mood... Y'all will be aware that the Republican Party emblem is an elephant, and the Democrat emblem is a donkeys.

And it’s well known and accepted which of those two animals is smarter ;)

On another side note the democrat election emblem “D20” was noticed by some to be “death to America” in some form of txt speak. A large D number 2 them America in the crosshairs of the 0

😳😂🤭😯

[R650R]

So - the USA has something like 4.5% of the world's population - and now has 20% of all Covid-19 deaths across the world ..

I think that's pretty good evidence that the actions they have taken are not working ..

They also have major obesity problem (sadly NZ is way closer than you’d like to think tho).
Prob also have the easiest inter regional travel in a large population too.

So your saying only about 1 million people are dead out of 7 BILLION people on earth?

[Kickaha]

On another side note the democrat election emblem “D20” was noticed by some to be “death to America” in some form of txt speak. A large D number 2 them America in the crosshairs of the 0


You mean "made up by some"

[pritch]

Perhaps there needs to be some distinction between medical professionals (e.g. doctors) and the organisations / administrations that runs the hospitals in which they operate (and who will have more of a profit focus).


I'm sure that's true and it would be safe to assume that there will be hospital administrators who will take advantage of the system To claim though that the high US COVID case numbers in the US are due to hospitals fraudulently classifying cases is as absurd as the claim that the high numbers are because the US does more testing.

There will be mulitiple reasons but that Trump downplayed it, made it political, and has convinced almost half the population that it's a hoax will have a lot more relevance.

Currently the virus is spreading out of control in the USA, with virtually no national effort to control it. A large chunk of the population has just embarked on a mass super spreader event.

To use a term we're familiar with, the lack of 'situational awareness' is mind boggling.

[Viking01]

Meanwhile, behind the curtain ... politics is seemingly still at play. Having failed to agree on an extension to the earlier CARES Act provisions, it seems funds allocated to the Fed - which could have been used to support "Main Street" businesses and employees (not just banks and financial institutions) - are being returned to the Treasury:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/behind-us-treasury-vs-fed-rift/5730418

[pritch]

Trump withdrew the US from the "Open Skies" treaty. Presumably to stop Biden reinstating the agreement Trump has now ordered the 'planes destroyed. The funding for replacement aircraft has also been cancelled.

45 sure does like to do things that make Putin happy.

[Viking01]

Trump withdrew the US from the "Open Skies" treaty. Presumably to stop Biden reinstating the agreement Trump has now ordered the 'planes destroyed. The funding for replacement aircraft has also been cancelled.

45 sure does like to do things that make Putin happy.

Quite the opposite, re your last point.

Putin is enough of a realist to know that mutual willingness to fly each others skies (via agreed periodic flyovers) is a good way of helping to mutually reduce nuclear tensions. US withdrawal from the Open Skies Treaty does not contribute towards that goal.

https://www.dw.com/en/us-officially-withdraws-from-open-skies-transparency-pact/a-55691315

[pritch]

Quite the opposite, re your last point.

Putin is enough of a realist to know that mutual willingness to fly each others skies (via agreed periodic flyovers) is a good way of helping to mutually reduce nuclear tensions. US withdrawal from the Open Skies Treaty does not contribute towards that goal.

https://www.dw.com/en/us-officially-withdraws-from-open-skies-transparency-pact/a-55691315

The treaty is not specifically nuclear driven, troop movements are monitored. Russia in recent history has been up to no good in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine and has been bullying the Baltic states.

Withdrawing from the treaty was one thing. Destroying the aircraft is another. Removing the fiunding allocated for replacement aircraft takes it to another level. None of the US allies are happy about this, which implies Putin will be.

[mashman]

Rudi starts at about 14:45... and I finished watching during an interesting bit of forensic testimony with regards to the data spikes at 1:14:45. More than enough. Might skip to the end at some point... then again I might watch it the rest of the way through as it is worthy of such attention.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRTj8GG5ULs&feature=youtu.be

[TheDemonLord]

Well, now we have seen Trump come as close as he will ever get to officially conceding - as in him finally telling his staff to cooperate with President Elect Bidens transition team. Are you ready to concede Trump has lost the election? and in a fair n square manner- since the Trump lawyers have failed miserably to come up with any hard proof?

For the record it was closer than I anticipated. I will be sure to totally ignore polls in 2024. :laugh:

I'm still at the same position I was on the night of the election:

Waiting for the actual process to conclude itself.

My Standard of 'proof' has not changed - that I will defer to the process and the checks and balances therein. There still does hang some interesting statistical anomalies which at the very least are worthy of investigation and an answer.

[Viking01]

The treaty is not specifically nuclear driven, troop movements are monitored.

Russia in recent history has been up to no good in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine and has been bullying the Baltic states.

Withdrawing from the treaty was one thing. Destroying the aircraft is another. Removing the funding allocated for replacement aircraft takes it to another level. None of the US allies are happy about this, which implies Putin will be.

As for monitoring troop movements as well - agreed.

As for the rest [ Crimea, Ukraine, Balt states, Putin is pleased ] - happy to disagree with your contention. But no need to debate it.

Cheers,
Viking

[HenryDorsetCase]

The treaty is not specifically nuclear driven, troop movements are monitored. Russia in recent history has been up to no good in the Crimea and Eastern Ukraine and has been bullying the Baltic states.

Withdrawing from the treaty was one thing. Destroying the aircraft is another. Removing the fiunding allocated for replacement aircraft takes it to another level. None of the US allies are happy about this, which implies Putin will be.

Far be it for me to endorse the orange shit-gibbon in anything, but if you have the satellites, you don't need the planes. And the yanks have got the satellites. Is this not the same exact thing that killed off the coolest aircraft ever manufactured by anyone anywhere (Lockheed SR-71)?

[Viking01]

Far be it for me to endorse the orange shit-gibbon in anything, but if you have the satellites, you don't need the planes. And the yanks have got the satellites. Is this not the same exact thing that killed off the coolest aircraft ever manufactured by anyone anywhere (Lockheed SR-71)?

Think that you are absolutely correct regarding superiority of satellites.

But to quote another writer:

"The Open Skies Treaty was an initiative of the Elder Bush administration at the end of the Cold War, to allow programmed overflights of reconnaissance aircraft in other peoples’ air space. At the time, it was more of a propaganda ploy than anything else: the Bush people actually thought the Soviet Union would turn the idea down. Neither of the two superpowers needed the Treaty, because they both had “national technical means” (ie satellites) which were much more capable than any aircraft. But the agreement was seen as confidence-building and a way of de-escalating the tension of the last days of the Cold War.

It’s an old debate among experts that arms control treaties by themselves don’t bring stability, because there is no way of convincing diehard extremists that the other side isn’t cheating in some fashion. Like other such measures, their value is in demonstrating that trust does, in fact, exist."

And given that NATO has shifted significantly eastward since the USSR collapsed in 1991 (despite verbal assurances given to Gorbachev in 1989 at the time of German reunification), trust seems to be an ever diminishing quantity.

[Edit]

https://www.rt.com/russia/507766-american-missiles-crimea-confrontation/

[pritch]

Olberman on Rudy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erWIiHvRuwI

That's a longer version than what appears on Twitter. He's good. If you like that sort of thing. The usual suspects therefore, are unlikely to enjoy it.

[R650R]

Far be it for me to endorse the orange shit-gibbon in anything, but if you have the satellites, you don't need the planes. And the yanks have got the satellites. Is this not the same exact thing that killed off the coolest aircraft ever manufactured by anyone anywhere (Lockheed SR-71)?

Yep it will be a cost/business driven angle as per most of his actions.

If you havent seen it watch Brian Schul doco, one of original test pilots and epic life story after third degree burns crash in Vietnam.

[TheDemonLord]

Yep it will be a cost/business driven angle as per most of his actions.

If you havent seen it watch Brian Schul doco, one of original test pilots and epic life story after third degree burns crash in Vietnam.

I'm going to partially break site protocol, since I accidentally hit send before completing my rep comment:

Brian Shul and the LA speed Check story is one of my all time favs

[pritch]

The kraken has been unleashed. Sidney Powell claims she has filed her case against the election of Joe Biden. The copies she produced though, are not marked as having been received by the court. There are apparently over 100 pages of affidavits, but the presentation is bizarre with parts of it being unintelligible. The "evidence" is often laughable. The header below indicates that she started out as she meant to go on. Sad really, it would seem the lady is seriously unwell.

[pritch]

Brian Shul and the LA speed Check story is one of my all time favs

Mine too. I'd like to have bought his book but I seem to recall it was too expensive at near US$500. The written version of LA Speed Check is more detailed than his spoken versions.

There's also this. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/story-behind-famed-sr-71-blackbird-super-low-knife-edge-pass-64186

[sugilite]

I'm still at the same position I was on the night of the election:

Waiting for the actual process to conclude itself.

My Standard of 'proof' has not changed - that I will defer to the process and the checks and balances therein. There still does hang some interesting statistical anomalies which at the very least are worthy of investigation and an answer.

I'm curious, when Trump was declared the winner last election, did you run this "standard of proof" over that as well? Or did you just go accept it right away?

[sugilite]

The kraken has been unleashed. Sidney Powell claims she has filed her case against the election of Joe Biden. The copies she produced though, are not marked as having been received by the court. There are apparently over 100 pages of affidavits, but the presentation is bizarre with parts of it being unintelligible. The "evidence" is often laughable. The header below indicates that she started out as she meant to go on. Sad really, it would seem the lady is seriously unwell.

Alas, kraken was a typo too. She meant krappen, because she has been krappen all over the place, even on Rudy and Trump himself :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

I'm curious, when Trump was declared the winner last election, did you run this "standard of proof" over that as well? Or did you just go accept it right away?

If memory serves - Hillary conceeded on the night, so my standard of proof - aka 'trusting the process' was met.

In this case, neither side has conceeded, there are lawsuits going on, so I'm waiting for the process to play itself out.

As I've stated prior - there are 3 areas of statistical anomalies that I believe warrant addition investigation. Could be evidence of Foul Play, Could be legitimate.

There's an article here: https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/ that makes a number of claims, and as with all things - I'm not taking it as holy writ - but what is incredibly interesting is the 'Debunking' done on one of the claims:

https://twitter.com/baseballcrank/status/1330909164453945344

Namely that in the last 250 years, the scenario has only happened 3 times prior - including one (the 1960 election) where there has been long-standing accusations of fraud. So, if we exclude that for a moment - according to the 'debunk' (taking it at face value), It has happened only twice prior, with the last time being over 100 years ago.

This makes for another Statistical oddity, that whilst not impossible, is so improbable as to only happen Twice (excluding a result that may be tainted) in 250 years of election history, which I put to anyone is at the very least grounds for investigation.

[sugilite]

If memory serves - Hillary conceeded on the night, so my standard of proof - aka 'trusting the process' was met.


Good to hear Hillary Clinton helped you keep faith with the US elctrol system!
And yes I know your stance well in regards to the anomalies, yet no fraud has been found despite many court cases being lodged, Trumps teams deep dive desperation even to the point of republican figures offering bribes, opps I mean rewards for evidence. Apart from a smattering of Trump supporters voting on behalf of dead relatives, none has been found - the irony eh :laugh:

So how would you rate the Trumps legal teams performance thus far on a scale of 1 to 10?

[SaferRides]

Apparently Trump started his "rigged election" BS after he lost a primary in 2016.

At first, I thought the whole thing was a carefully thought through strategy, but it looks like they made it up as they went. I mean, Rudi Giuliani and Sidney Powell would have to be the low point of the Trump years, ignoring Covid-19. And there are a few contenders for that award!

[TheDemonLord]

Good to hear Hillary Clinton helped you keep faith with the US elctrol system!

Har Har, although slightly different circumstances.


And yes I know your stance well in regards to the anomalies, yet no fraud has been found despite many court cases being lodged, Trumps teams deep dive desperation even to the point of republican figures offering bribes, opps I mean rewards for evidence. Apart from a smattering of Trump supporters voting on behalf of dead relatives, none has been found - the irony eh :laugh:

So how would you rate the Trumps legal teams performance thus far on a scale of 1 to 10?

I have been listening to the Pennsylvania hearing, So in general, I don't put much stock in eye-witness testimony (not saying any of them are lying, but I like something more tangible).

The part that jumped out at me - was the claim (supposedly based on publicly sourced info) that the number of received Mail-in Ballots exceeded the number of requested sent mail-in ballots, by about 700,000 - which if true, would be yet another rather interesting anomaly.

And the person making that claim also highlighted a number of 'spikes' in voter tallies which are unusual. Things that other people with an interest in Numbers have pointed out, the 'unnatural' way that Biden's vote count increased, compared to the much smoother curve for all other candidates.

As for a rating - It's hard for me to give one, simply because I'm not really focused on the legal side of things (Too many lawyers with too much hot air - I'm sure you'll agree), The Stats side of things however - the more time goes on, the more interesting discrepancies we see, the more the numbers (as presented) tell us that this was an unprecedented result, in multiple ways and in the whole of US Election history.

It could be. It could be that dislike of Trump, Covid etc. represents and unprecedented set of circumstances facilitating an unprecedented result.

It could also be that there was a little extra help, going one way.

[pritch]

I follow several sources of legal info on social media, mostly US but also UK. Both have had governments in recent times that treated the law rather loosely. Expert commentary was required to understand what was happening. Rudy & Co have been a huge source of amusement to lawyers both sides of the Atlantic but possibly more so in the UK because it's not their problem.

[sugilite]

As for a rating - It's hard for me to give one, simply because I'm not really focused on the legal side of things (Too many lawyers with too much hot air - I'm sure you'll agree), The Stats side of things however - the more time goes on, the more interesting discrepancies we see, the more the numbers (as presented) tell us that this was an unprecedented result, in multiple ways and in the whole of US Election history.


OK, a little hard to believe you would not have seen the reports, so to fill you in, Trump, the guy you attribute a lot of intelligence too has not been able to put together a legal team that is in any way shape or form competent. The win loss ratio is now at something like 34/2. Obviously Trump has vaaaaaaaaaast experience in litigation. The laughable mis-steps, and the following are just limited highlights, - holding a news press conference in a landscaping car park between a porn shop and a crematorium, Announcing one of their lawyers as part of their "strike force" team, then pretending she was not part of their team a few days later, despite her being featured very prominently in the now notorious Rudy hair dye meltdown press conference. I'll not begin to cover that this team has gone into case after case with no real evidence. Seems your guy just cannot put a good team together huh?

My own feeling is, if the cunning crafty dems had had a team of election tamperers that were so bloody good at their jobs the poor old GOP could not bring a single smoking gun piece of evidence to the table, then why would the same crack dem team not of also used the same methods to win the senate elections? Looks to me like the GOP is going to hold onto that and McConnell will carry on his knee capping ways.

[Grumph]

It could also be that there was a little extra help, going one way.


There you come up against the awkward fact of the Republican gains in the Senate...

The very same ballots which gave them that also gave Biden his win.

I can of course point out the local anomaly as a precedent - where the rural electorates went Labour for the party vote. It happens.

What is amusing now is the Georgia runoffs. Trump and his lawyers are screaming unfair election and encouraging his supporters to write him or others in on the ballots - or abstain.
Which will give the two Senate seats to the Democrats.
Trump now couldn't give a flying fuck for the GOP - he's simply Trump first. Losing the Senate would be "nothing to do with me"

The only one screaming vote is Don jnr who at least still feels some loyalty to the GOP.

[TheDemonLord]

OK, a little hard to believe you would not have seen the reports, so to fill you in, Trump, the guy you attribute a lot of intelligence too has not been able to put together a legal team that is in any way shape or form competent. The win loss ratio is now at something like 34/2. Obviously Trump has vaaaaaaaaaast experience in litigation. The laughable mis-steps, and the following are just limited highlights, - holding a news press conference in a landscaping car park between a porn shop and a crematorium, Announcing one of their lawyers as part of their "strike force" team, then pretending she was not part of their team a few days later, despite her being featured very prominently in the now notorious Rudy hair dye meltdown press conference. I'll not begin to cover that this team has gone into case after case with no real evidence. Seems your guy just cannot put a good team together huh?

I've seen a lot of hot air and lawyer-ing, which I don't put too much faith in, Porn Shops or Strike Forces or 32/2 - It's not my area of concern.

The Numbers are.


My own feeling is, if the cunning crafty dems had had a team of election tamperers that were so bloody good at their jobs the poor old GOP could not bring a single smoking gun piece of evidence to the table, then why would the same crack dem team not of also used the same methods to win the senate elections? Looks to me like the GOP is going to hold onto that and McConnell will carry on his knee capping ways.

That's an excellent question - and unfortunately, the most likely answer doesn't look good for Biden - if you were busy forging a large number of Ballots to ensure Biden won, you wouldn't want to waste time in also selecting the correct Democratic representative.

Speaking of which - I've yet to confirm the numbers - but I've heard that the average number of Down-Ballots for Trump was around 1-2% (If you vote Trump, you're likely to vote for a Republican senator also), the Down-Ballot numbers for Biden were 30% (not sure if that was nationally or only focussed on Swing states) - and if true, That's yet one more massive statistical outlier that is odd.

[TheDemonLord]

There you come up against the awkward fact of the Republican gains in the Senate...

The very same ballots which gave them that also gave Biden his win.

Well, that's not entirely true, is it.

As above - these seems to be a large number of Ballots cast for Biden with no representative selected. Assuming for the moment that everything is as it should be with the election, the absence of people voting for a Democratic senator is what gave the Republicans their win, not cross-voting.

As for the other part, Under MMP it's not entirely uncommon to see cross-party voting (for example, Party vote for Act, Local candidate National), or in your case - a lot of people giving their Party vote to Labour.

People crossing the floor with their vote (e.g. party vote national, candidate vote Labour or similar) is a lot rarer.

[pritch]

Looks to me like the GOP is going to hold onto that and McConnell will carry on his knee capping ways.

We can but hope. Both of the Georgia Republican Senate candidates: Loeffler and Perdue, are considered to be insider traders. Following a secure briefing in January on the likely effects of the upcoming pandemic both sold milions of dollars worth of stock in companies that would be adversely affected and bought shares in other businesses. The trades were the subject of an investigation by the FBI.

In that debate I posted earlier Perdue's oponent, Ossoff, called him a crook to his face. Perdue will not debate Ossoff again.

Loeffler has not been in the Senate all that long, she was appointed by the governor, not elected.

This is all common knowledge among the people who will be voting. The Republicans are an unlovely couple of candidates, and that may work to the advantage of the Democrats. Or not.

Winning one Senate seat will not do it for the Democrats, they need to win both or they will have a miserable four years.

[pritch]

That's yet one more massive statistical outlier that is odd.

You keep ignoring the fact (as quoted by most of the officials) that voter fraud in the US is virtually non existent. Just because Trump is banging on about it endlessly - at 23,000 lies and counting - is no reason for any reasonable person to be concerned. Trump is addressing the low information part of the populace. The ones who believed Hillary was running a child sex ring in the basement of a pizza shop which didn't even have a basement. The rest of us will ignore it.

Over thirty court cases and zero evidence of voter fraud by the Democrats. Anyone who has not yet caught on is seriously slow on the uptake.

[TheDemonLord]

You keep ignoring the fact (as quoted by most of the officials) that voter fraud in the US is virtually non existent. Just because Trump is banging on about it endlessly - at 23,000 lies and counting - is no reason for any reasonable person to be concerned. Trump is addressing the low information part of the populace. The ones who believed Hillary was running a child sex ring in the basement of a pizza shop which didn't even have a basement. The rest of us will ignore it.

Over thirty court cases and zero evidence of voter fraud by the Democrats. Anyone who has not yet caught on is seriously slow on the uptake.

The Officials can make statement till they are blue in the face.

Same with the lawyers.

Same with Trump.

Same with Biden.

I'll grant you every single statement that you wish to call a lie, as a lie.

The Numbers are where there are a myriad of oddities.

Oddities that at the very least warrant an investigation and explanation. I gave 3 in my opening point about this - It seems the information from Pennsylvania about the number of ballots sent out by mail vs the number that were counted should be added to that.

700,000 discrepancy based on public information - that's 10% of the vote in that state, I think that merits some investigation.

As above with one of the Twitter 'Debunks' on a claim - if the Twitter user is correct - then one aspect of the Election has not occurred in the last 100 years (excluding a result where there is doubt on the legitimacy), even if that is included - it's still only 3 times in 250 years, pretty rare and pretty exceptional.

[pritch]

Oh! And Trump wants to bring back firing squads.

[Viking01]

Oh! And Trump wants to bring back firing squads.

As in "you're fired" ?

[pritch]

As in "you're fired" ?

No, as in bullets. "Bang! You're dead."

At first I thought Trump hadn't thought this through. If there's a god he should be the first customer. Quarter of a million dead and counting, yet still he does nothing.

A few years ago the (Danish?) manufacturer of the drug the US used for lethal injections banned export of the drug to countries that used it thus. The various US states tried to reverse engineer the drug with limited success. There have been some horrendous executions, people in agony, others toook ages to die. It has finally dawned on somebody that what they are doing is not working. Trump to the rescue, bring back firing squads - and the electric chair.

There is, however, another possibility that hasn't yet occurred to the simple minded, inbred, fuck ups...




That may seem a bit strong but I'm still on my first glass of wine.

[Kickaha]

The kraken has been unleashed. Sidney Powell claims she has filed her case against the election of Joe Biden.

But she's not on Trumps expert lawyer team anymore ? Is this something she's doing on her own ?


Oh! And Trump wants to bring back firing squads.

He'd end up in front of one

[nerrrd]

...I'll grant you every single statement that you wish to call a lie, as a lie.

The Numbers are where there are a myriad of oddities...



“Lies, damn lies and statistics”?

[husaberg]

No, as in bullets. "Bang! You're dead."

At first I thought Trump hadn't thought this through. If there's a god he should be the first customer. Quarter of a million dead and counting, yet still he does nothing.

A few years ago the (Danish?) manufacturer of the drug the US used for lethal injections banned export of the drug to countries that used it thus. The various US states tried to reverse engineer the drug with limited success. There heve been some horrendous executions, people in agony, others toook ages to die. It has finally dawned on somebody that what they are doing is not working. Trump to the rescue, bring back firing squads - and the electric chair.

There is, however, another possibility that hasn't yet occurred to the simple minded, inbred, fuck ups...




That may seem a bit strong but I'm still on my first glass of wine.


Isn't treason still a capital offense in the USA?

Trump will never admit he's lost
https://az705044.vo.msecnd.net/20201124/tweet-concede-trump.png

[pritch]

Isn't treason still a capital offense in the USA?


Yeah. this is an example of where the ignorant will waffle about "hot air." Or could actually try and learn something.

During the trial of General Flynn the judge became exasperated and asked why Flynn shouldn't be charged with treason. You have to consider though, that even in legal cricles, treason is not something that regularly crops up in conversation. The US law of teason requires an actual enemy. At the moment there is not one such, the US has not actualy declared war on anybody.
Therefore nobody can be charged with treason, even if, like Trump, they are guilty as Hell.

[SaferRides]

The Officials can make statement till they are blue in the face.

Same with the lawyers.

Same with Trump.

Same with Biden.

I'll grant you every single statement that you wish to call a lie, as a lie.

The Numbers are where there are a myriad of oddities.

Oddities that at the very least warrant an investigation and explanation. I gave 3 in my opening point about this - It seems the information from Pennsylvania about the number of ballots sent out by mail vs the number that were counted should be added to that.

700,000 discrepancy based on public information - that's 10% of the vote in that state, I think that merits some investigation.
.
I would question that information. It is difficult to believe that the state election people didn't notice the discrepancy.

What is the source?

[husaberg]

Yeah. this is an example of where the ignorant will waffle about "hot air." Or could actually try and learn something.

During the trial of General Flynn the judge became exasperated and asked why Flynn shouldn't be charged with treason. You have to consider though, that even in legal circles, treason is not something that regularly crops up in conversation. The US law of treason requires an actual enemy. At the moment there is not one such, the US has not actually declared war on anybody.
Therefore nobody can be charged with treason, even if, like Trump, they are guilty as Hell.
i was being somewhat flippant, but if they have found he has made statements or changed the foreign policy so as not to be in the best interests of the USA is he was being blackmailed or bribed n regards to Syria or turkey, and Russia. Surely it's still treason.

i had a look and interesting stuff
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim#:~:text=Whoever%2C%20owing%20allegi ance%20to%20the,not%20less%20than%20%2410%2C000%3B %20and


§2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death

that's an or rather then an AND.


§2382. Misprision of treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State, is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both.


2383. Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


§2384. Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.


§2385. Advocating overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms "organizes" and "organize", with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

[Grumph]

With no declared war, there's got to be a lesser charge. Like manslaughter vs murder.
But - as when Nixon was pardoned - Americans have no appetite for seeing a President charged. Or so the popular wisdom goes.
In this case I'd think you'd see a particularly nasty civil war in some areas.

The lawyer - ex the Trump team - who's bringing the case in Georgia is also bringing one in Michigan. If she's spelled it correctly.

For a very informative - and IMO amusing - writeup on what happened in Michigan and why it'll be tossed out, have a look at the piece on Politico.
The GOP there couldn't find their arse with a map.

I'd suspect most of the alleged shit in Georgia stems from the same sort of ignorance.

[R650R]

i was being somewhat flippant, but if they have found he has made statements or changed the foreign policy so as not to be in the best interests of the USA is he was being blackmailed or bribed n regards to Syria or turkey, and Russia. Surely it's still treason.

i had a look and interesting stuff
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title18/part1/chapter115&edition=prelim#:~:text=Whoever%2C%20owing%20allegi ance%20to%20the,not%20less%20than%20%2410%2C000%3B %20and



that's an or rather then an AND.

A lot of that would apply to the lawless riots and protests by anti trumps/antifa/blm etc...,

That’s why the CHAZ groupies quickly changed their name to CHOP, cause setting up an “autonomous” zone was an own goal 100% rebellion charge right there and the rest.

God it was great to see them destroyed by their own hypocrisy... building a border wall, stop and checking people for ID, having an armed warlord shooting their own and calling the police when the homeless kept stealing their food LMFAO

[R650R]

Keeping things in perspective for both sides and pretty much my view to on political sideshows.
https://youtu.be/eVZMifGcW64

[pritch]

A lot of that would apply to the lawless riots and protests by anti trumps/antifa/blm etc...,

That’s why the CHAZ groupies quickly changed their name to CHOP, cause setting up an “autonomous” zone was an own goal 100% rebellion charge right there and the rest.

God it was great to see them destroyed by their own hypocrisy... building a border wall, stop and checking people for ID, having an armed warlord shooting their own and calling the police when the homeless kept stealing their food LMFAO


Is it possible any of that could be translated into English? Or is that more of that alternate reality stuff?

[Laava]

Keeping things in perspective for both sides and pretty much my view to on political sideshows.
https://youtu.be/eVZMifGcW64
Love George! I remember mourning his death back in 2008, sad times...

[sugilite]

Yep :laugh:

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/27/mini-desk-trump-mocked-speech-little-table-diaperdon-twitter-president-furniture

[sugilite]

Oh dear, another one bites the dust. By 3 Republican appointed judges no less.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/federal-appeals-court-dismisses-trump-campaign-lawsuit-pennsylvania-voting-procedures

I really hope this does go to the supreme court so his 3 appointees can take a fat smelly dump on Trump.

[Viking01]

No, as in bullets. "Bang! You're dead."

At first I thought Trump hadn't thought this through. If there's a god he should be the first customer. Quarter of a million dead and counting, yet still he does nothing.

A few years ago the (Danish?) manufacturer of the drug the US used for lethal injections banned export of the drug to countries that used it thus. The various US states tried to reverse engineer the drug with limited success. There have been some horrendous executions, people in agony, others toook ages to die. It has finally dawned on somebody that what they are doing is not working. Trump to the rescue, bring back firing squads - and the electric chair.

There is, however, another possibility that hasn't yet occurred to the simple minded, inbred, fuck ups...




That may seem a bit strong but I'm still on my first glass of wine.


No Danes involved here.

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/germany-heeds-call-to-block-lethal-injection-drug-supply/3001789.article

https://www.euronews.com/2019/07/29/us-government-plans-to-use-drug-for-execution-that-europe-banned-exporting-to-them

[pritch]

No Danes involved here.


Try here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/01/lundbeck-us-pentobarbital-death-row

[Viking01]

Try here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/01/lundbeck-us-pentobarbital-death-row

Conceded.

At least the article provides a little background on what then transpired.

[Laava]

Speaking of conceded, nope, still won't accept the truth!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/300169994/donald-trump-challenges-joe-biden-to-prove-his-votes

[pritch]

I really hope this does go to the supreme court so his 3 appointees can take a fat smelly dump on Trump.

That DiaperDon's three most recent SCOTUS appointments voted to let Catholics and Jews die in numbers because "the First Amendment," doesn't breed confidence.

What is the score now, 1 from 40?

The hashtag #DiaperDon has been trending on Twitter in most English speaking countries, including this one apparently. We can assume he's seen it because he posted this on Twitter:
"For purposes of National Security, Section 230 must be immediately terminated!!!"

Section 230 is the US law that protects Internet site owners such as Facebook, Twitter, etc from being sued over what people post on their site. Without it the 'Net as we know it would cease to exist.

I believe this is the performance that earned him the #DiaperDon hashtag. The petulance is exceeded only by the bullshit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVR2_JyVzHE

[pritch]

Now we know why US Secretary of State Pompeo has been loitering in the Middle East, and why B52s flew there recently.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/27/top-iranian-nuclear-scientist-assassinated.html

[pritch]

The state of play in the courts.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/27/trump-voter-fraud-lawsuit-rejected-pennsylvania-court

[sugilite]

Keep fighting diaper don, you will receive a set of silver bracelets as your eviction present :laugh:
https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/300169994/donald-trump-challenges-joe-biden-to-prove-his-votes

[husaberg]

Multiple actions have been filed to disbar trump's lapdog lawyer and the rest of the legal team.
Whats the bet that if its successful trump will claim to not "know them."



Bill Pascrell, a New Jersey Democrat, filed letters with the state bars of Arizona, Michigan, New York, Nevada, and Pennsylvania, seeking the disbarment of Giuliani and 22 other lawyers working for the Trump campaign.
He said the lawsuits ” none of which have succeeded in court so far ” violate rules forbidding frivolous litigation, as well as “conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit, or misrepresentation.”
“The egregious pattern of behaviour by Mr. Giuliani to effectuate Mr. Trump’s sinister arson is a danger not just to our legal system but is also unprecedented in our national life,” Pascrell wrote.
Disbarment is a harsh and rare occurrence. The sanction no longer permits a lawyer to practice law in a particular state. Different states have different standards for disbarment, but they generally require breaking professional conduct rules.
“We as attorneys have an ethical obligation to bring or defend only where there is a basis of both law and fact,” Nicole Noonan, a legal ethics commentator and litigation funder, told Insider. “Mr. Giuliani’s multitude of suits may have crossed the ethical line and in this charged political climate could lead to the ultimate penalty for a lawyer: disbarment.”

[pritch]

SCOTUS voted to overturn the power of a governor to restict gatherings, at the request of some Catholic churches and Jewish synagogues.

Guess who does not approve?

https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/pope-francis-tells-the-supreme-court-to-go-to-hell/34457/

[husaberg]

words from the same place.....
https://www.palmerreport.com/analysis/capitulation-donald-trump-reaches/34456/

Donald Trump may never concede, but that doesn’t really matter, so long as he capitulates. In other words, we don’t care if he admits he lost; we just care that he admits he’s leaving the White House on January 20th. To that end, Trump’s tweet today is notable:

“Biden can only enter the White House as President if he can prove that his ridiculous “80,000,000 votes” were not fraudulently or illegally obtained. When you see what happened in Detroit, Atlanta, Philadelphia & Milwaukee, massive voter fraud, he’s got a big unsolvable problem!”

Yes, this is completely unhinged. But it’s also a capitulation.
Trump is clinging to increasingly minor points while capitulating on the larger points. It’s what defeated losers do when they don’t want to admit they lost, but they can see that most observers know they lost.
Donald Trump’s tweet makes clear.
That he doesn’t understand the burden of proof.
Then again, he never understood the burden of the presidency,
Or the burden of paying his bills.
Or the burden of following the law.
But he’s soon going to understand the burden of prison.

#"Milwaukee County concludes its recount of the presidential election -- one of two counties where Trump sought a recount in Wisconsin. The results: Biden's lead, currently at about 20,000 statewide, grew by 132 votes."

[pritch]

With no declared war, there's got to be a lesser charge. Like manslaughter vs murder.


Espionage?

[pritch]

Trump wanted a recount in Wisconsin but it was going to cost eight million or some such. So the great "dealmaker" negotiated a recount of two urban counties for three million.

The results of the first one are in. Biden increases his lead. :rofl:

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/articles/2020-11-27/recount-in-wisconsin-county-demanded-by-trump-increases-bidens-margin

[george formby]

High level of disgruntlement here.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-he-donated-25-million-to-donald-trumps-legal-fund-now-he-wants-his-money-back/LCYN3XQDKEV6ZQFRKMOXVHJGLQ/

[Grumph]

Espionage?

Well, no-one knows what he discussed with Putin...

I think they've still got this one on the books - "Endangering the Republic"

For older National supporters - Muldoon could have been charged with being drunk in charge of a country - if it was on the books. Sad omission IMO.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/ZNfqwvgVrOU
Is it possible any of that could be translated into English? Or is that more of that alternate reality stuff?

[sugilite]

Great to see Trump spend 3 million to increase Bidens tally :laugh:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-gets-boost-after-wisconsin-recount-that-trump-paid-3m-for

[TheDemonLord]

“Lies, damn lies and statistics”?

Well, yes, but things like the Enron Fraud were found out due to a deep dive in the numbers

[TheDemonLord]

I would question that information. It is difficult to believe that the state election people didn't notice the discrepancy.

What is the source?

The source was the State website - publicly available, as per Rudy's Gettysburg hearing.

The information has since been removed, but screen grabs were presented as part of the hearing.

I find it interesting that such information would be removed from the website.

Certainly doesn't make it look like an "open election" with "nothing to hide"

[testastretta]

The source was the State website - publicly available, as per Rudy's Gettysburg hearing.

The information has since been removed, but screen grabs were presented as part of the hearing.

I find it interesting that such information would be removed from the website.

Certainly doesn't make it look like an "open election" with "nothing to hide"

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pa-mailin-votes-ballots/

Clear enough?

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pa-mailin-votes-ballots/

Clear enough?

What an interesting little article...

Let's take it as holy Writ - see if you can spot a number of discrepancies...

[mashman]

I regard Trump's claims such as this one, and the claim that they have more cases because they do more testing to be idiot level stuff.

I saw this and though of you. Associated press should be good enough, eh......

Experts: Virus numbers could be erratic after Thanksgiving (https://www.yahoo.com/news/experts-virus-numbers-could-erratic-221244754.html)...


If you feel so negative about what i post here, don't read it. Ii's not compulsory.

Just keepin' you honest... which to be fair is really tricky given that you repeatedly prove that ya can't process simple logic, reason and common sense as anything other than "idiot level stuff".

[testastretta]

What an interesting little article...

Let's take it as holy Writ - see if you can spot a number of discrepancies...

Why dont you just say where the extra 700000 votes are?

[pritch]

I saw this and though of you. Associated press should be good enough, eh......


That doesn't disprove anything I wrote. Trump has repeatedly said that the reason the US has more cases than any other country is because they do more testing.
That is idiotic. That's like saying if nobody ever did pregancy tests, nobody would get pregnant.

For a number of reasons the USA was going to be badly hit compared to other countries, but Trump's almost total refusal to do anything at all has exacerbated the situation.

[pritch]

Let's take it as holy Writ - see if you can spot a number of discrepancies...

I can spot a discrepancy, Senator Mastriano.

Here he is lying and threatening to send electors to vote for Trump against the will of the voters.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-state/2020/11/28/Pennsylvania-House-Republicans-2020-general-election-results-resolution-dispute-Tom-Wolf-Kathy-Boockvar/stories/202011280049

[mashman]

That doesn't disprove anything I wrote. Trump has repeatedly said that the reason the US has more cases than any other country is because they do more testing.
That is idiotic. That's like saying if nobody ever did pregancy tests, nobody would get pregnant.

For a number of reasons the USA was going to be badly hit compared to other countries, but Trump's almost total refusal to do anything at all has exacerbated the situation.

It is idiotic to state that a tried and tested pregnancy test it is in any way just as accurate a covid test. Where the test results are more than just questionable, so more testing drives a situation based on bullshit data. I agree that the refusal to force business to shutdown has likely made things worse, but hey, shit data drives shit decision making. More testing yields more bullshit decisions. Pretty simple really.

[pritch]

Pretty simple really.

More like simple minded really. But OK you do you. :bye:

[1/32 man]

"You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run"

[husaberg]

It is idiotic to state that a tried and tested pregnancy test it is in any way just as accurate a covid test. Where the test results are more than just questionable, so more testing drives a situation based on bullshit data. I agree that the refusal to force a business to the shutdown has likely made things worse, but hey, shit data drives shit decision making. More testing yields more bullshit decisions. Pretty simple really.

You really do not know anything about how a biological test works and sensitivity and specificity do you?
It's odd as I have even posted previously all the information a rational sane person of even below average intelligence would need to educate themselves it in direct response to you still attempting to spread a false narrative a few weeks ago.



“Something extremely bogus is going on,” Musk, 49, tweeted. “Was tested for covid four times today. Two tests came back negative, two came back positive. Same machine, same test, same nurse.” (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/11/13/elon-musk-covid-test-bogus/)

"When one follower asked if false tests could be driving the national surge in cases, Musk replied, “If it’s happening to me, it’s happening to others.”"


False Positives = double case numbers.
False Negatives = Exponential Infection/Death curve

I bet those poor bastards, dying on gurneys in corridors outside the ICU's, will be pleased to know that their diagnosis might have some possible error.:facepalm:


Or those sent home incorrectly to die etc... and/or infect others. With results like that, why bother testing.


It's unfortunate you still do not realise biological testing is never going to be 100% which is why they make the cut off at a level where they achieve false positives.
This is done on purpose to having the cut-off at a point where you achieve too many false negatives.
Maybe instead of posting false information on the net, you should google biological tests and sensitivity vs specificity.
https://cdn.technologynetworks.com/tn/images/body/sensitivityvsspecificitygraph11555334230290.png

Testing does not increase the number of people with a disease, it identifies those with a disease to allow them to get treatment or isolate themselves to prevent further spread.
So to suggest the testing has to be 100% be able to manage or control a disease utterly, silly when the sensitivity and specificity are set to make sure as a smaller number of false negatives are produced. Your continued ignorance of these facts shows your own confirmation bias is so strong are totally incapable of picking up information that doesn't suit your preconceived agenda.
ps re the pregnancy tests

From the UK NHS
How accurate are home pregnancy tests?
Home pregnancy tests are accurate as long as you follow the instructions correctly.
A positive test result is almost certainly correct. However, a negative test result is less reliable.


i will give you a hint I have been involved in the management and implementation for biological testing a major contagious and deadly disease for over ten years. The statements you are making have no basis in fact and are highly amusing.
What I suggest you do is stick to what you actually know a modicum of information about and have actual experience in such as how to run for parliament and attack so few votes that you are within the margin of error for a home pregnancy test

[sugilite]

The source was the State website - publicly available, as per Rudy's Gettysburg hearing.

The information has since been removed, but screen grabs were presented as part of the hearing.

I find it interesting that such information would be removed from the website.

Certainly doesn't make it look like an "open election" with "nothing to hide"

I never thought to question your sources, so a deleted post was it eh.
There is a position open for you on Trumps strike farce team lol

I hear Biden is putting together a strike force team of his own to install opera singers into positions of power to get America converted to communism asap :laugh:

More info on the diaper don name...guess all his shit has to pour out from somewhere.
https://unfoxnews.com/former-apprentice-staffer-claims-trump-soiled-himself-on-set-required-diapers/

[mashman]

More like simple minded really. But OK you do you. :bye:

So you're saying that those scientists are being simple minded? Indeed, go do yourself.

[1/32 man]

Testing does not increase the number of people with a disease tRump thinks so

[mashman]

tRump thinks so

I've heard him say that more testing = more case numbers and that that's not a good look from a confidence perspective, but I've yet to hear him state that you only get infected if you get a test... coz that would be fucking stupid. Not saying that he hasn't said such, so perhaps you could provide a direct quote instead of a bastardisation of what someone else's interpretation of what he might have potentially meant according to someone he once shared a latte with thinks?

[R650R]

That doesn't disprove anything I wrote. Trump has repeatedly said that the reason the US has more cases than any other country is because they do more testing.
That is idiotic. That's like saying if nobody ever did pregancy tests, nobody would get pregnant.

For a number of reasons the USA was going to be badly hit compared to other countries, but Trump's almost total refusal to do anything at all has exacerbated the situation.

Ahhh you do live to twist his words.
What you need to know:
Trump is a business man, he functions in a world where you need to sell your idea/product to the client fast or fail.
And he’s identified that plain talk connects with his Everyman ordinary guy voter base.
So sometimes he says something at its over simplified and miscommunicated like the disinfectant thing.

But he’s right absent a few crucial words that’s allowed it to trigger you.

What he’s really saying is USA has more recorded cases because they’ve tested more people and that’s got to be entirely factual on its own. The REASON why they might have more cases is a seperate thing.

Just look at NZ. We had ZERO cases, Herr shinglzoorce Adern declared it eliminated. But they needed to keep the fear going so they started surveillance testing. Which is a fancy way of sayi g were going to waste resources testing people who arent sick knowing that a false positive will allow us to rack up another soul destroying lockdown soon.
And look what happened, more testing equaled more cases.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/x3cw1uGooB0

[MaxPenguin]

Ahhh you do live to twist his words.
What you need to know:
Trump is a business man, he functions in a world where you need to sell your idea/product to the client fast or fail.
And he’s identified that plain talk connects with his Everyman ordinary guy voter base.
So sometimes he says something at its over simplified and miscommunicated like the disinfectant thing.

But he’s right absent a few crucial words that’s allowed it to trigger you.

What he’s really saying is USA has more recorded cases because they’ve tested more people and that’s got to be entirely factual on its own. The REASON why they might have more cases is a seperate thing.

Just look at NZ. We had ZERO cases, Herr shinglzoorce Adern declared it eliminated. But they needed to keep the fear going so they started surveillance testing. Which is a fancy way of sayi g were going to waste resources testing people who arent sick knowing that a false positive will allow us to rack up another soul destroying lockdown soon.
And look what happened, more testing equaled more cases.

Why would they want to invent reasons to have a lockdown?

[husaberg]

“Cases are up because we have the best testing in the world and we have the most testing.”
"that's because we have great testing, because we have the best testing in the world. If we didn't test, you wouldn't be able to show that chart. If we tested half as much, those numbers would be down"
No, no. But I don't say -- I say flames, we'll put out the flames. And we'll put out in some cases just burning embers. We also have burning embers. We have embers and we do have flames. Florida became more flame like, but it's -- it's going to be under control. July 19, 2020

TRUMP: Yeah. I think what we'll do -- well, we have them under travel ban too, Chris. I closed them off. If you remember, I was the one that did the European Union very early.

But when you talk about mortality rates, I think it's the opposite. I think we have one of the lowest mortality rates in the world.

WALLACE: 75,000 cases a day.

TRUMP: Show me the death chart.

TRUMP: Well, the death chart is much more important.

WALLACE: But I can tell you, the death chart is a thousand cases a day.
WALLACE: That’s not true, sir. We, we, we have a -- we had 900 deaths on a single day...

I’m glad we did what we’re doing, but we have more tests by far than any country in the world.

Chris Wallace: (04:20)
But sir, testing is up 37%.

Donald Trump: (04:24)
Well, that’s good.

Chris Wallace: (04:25)
I understand. Cases are up 194%. It isn’t just that testing has gone up, it’s that the virus has spread. The positivity rate has increased. The virus is worse than it was.

Donald Trump: (04:37)
Many of those cases are young people that would heal in today. They have the sniffles and we put it down as a test. Many of them. Don’t forget, I guess it’s like 99.7%. People are going to get better

WALLACE: I can tell you cases are 6,000 in the whole European Union.

TRUMP: They don't test. They don't test.

WALLACE: Is it possible that they don't have the virus as badly as we do?

Donald Trump: (06:17)
They don’t test. They don’t test like we do.

Chris Wallace: (06:20)
Is it possible that they don’t have the virus as badly as we do?

Donald Trump: (06:22)
No, it’s possible that they don’t test. That’s what’s possible. We find cases, and many of those cases heal automatically. We’re finding in a way we’re creating trouble. Certainly we’re creating trouble for the fake news to come along and say, “Oh, we have more cases.”

DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, CDC DIRECTOR: "I do think this fall and winter of 2020, 2021, are probably going to be one of the most difficult times that we’ve experienced in American public health."

WALLACE: Do you agree with Dr. Redfield?

TRUMP: I don't know and I don't think he knows.

WALLACE: I was going to say, you said at one point…

TAPE: January 22, 2020

TRUMP: It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.

TAPE: February 26, 2020

TRUMP: When you have 15 people. And the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done.

TAPE: July 1, 2020

TRUMP: I think we're gonna be very good with the coronavirus. I think that at some point that's going to sort of just disappear. I hope.

TRUMP: I'll be right eventually. I will be right eventually. You know I said, "It's going to disappear." I'll say it again.

WALLACE: But does that – does that discredit you?

TRUMP: It's going to disappear and I'll be right. I don’t think so.

WALLACE: In general, not talking about November, are you a good loser?

TRUMP: I’m not a good loser. I don’t like to lose. I don’t lose too often. I don’t like to lose.

WALLACE: But are you gracious?

TRUMP: You don’t know until you see. It depends. I think mail-in voting is going to rig the election. I really do.

WALLACE: Are you suggesting that you might not accept the results of the election?

TRUMP: No. I have to see. Look, Hillary Clinton asked me the same thing.

WALLACE: No, I asked you the same thing at the debate.

TAPE: Presidential Debate, October 19, 2016

WALLACE: There is a tradition in this country -- in fact, one of the prides of this country -- is the peaceful transition of power and that no matter how hard-fought a campaign is, that at the end of the campaign that the loser concedes to the winner. Not saying that you're necessarily going to be the loser or the winner, but that the loser concedes to the winner and that the country comes together in part for the good of the country. Are you saying you're not prepared now to commit to that principle?

TRUMP: What I'm saying is that I will tell you at the time. I'll keep you in suspense. OK?

TRUMP: And you know what? She’s the one that never accepted it.
TRUMP: She never accepted her loss and she looks like a fool.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/transcript-fox-news-sunday-interview-with-president-trump

[pritch]

Trump is a business man,

LOL. Yeah right. Trump is a failed businessman.

Here's some of his failures to be going on with:

https://gawker.com/a-complete-list-of-donald-trump-s-business-disasters-1764151188

The list doesn't mention the twenty five million he was fined in repsect of his "University" which was a con plain and simple.
Or his fraudulent "charity" foundation which was ordered shut down.

If you look closely now he's requesting donations to support his ongoing legal actions. if you read the small print though, he's using the money to pay off debt.
Always a con, always preying on the simple minded. Some of you are lucky you live in NZ and not in the USA or he'd have your money too.

[1/32 man]

Doesn’t tRump have team of people to explain what he meant by what he said?

It is a bigly team too and they probably eat a lot of hamberders

[husaberg]

Deutsche bank valued trump at 788 million in 2005 he owes them 340 million at the time he claimed to be worth 10 billion so it's more than a slight exaggeration.



Trump nearly went personally bankrupt in the early 1990s, he left a handful of major U.S. banks on the hook for about $3.4 billion in loans he couldn't repay (and about $900 million of which he had personally guaranteed). Hotels, casinos, real estate, an airline and other parts of his debt-ridden portfolio went into bankruptcy protection. In the wake of that collapse, Trump became a pariah among major U.S. banks, and he had to find unique ways of lining up money for the infrequent and small-bore
deals he pursued thereafter. That left him borrowing money from labor unions and small, local lenders. Deutsche, keen at the time to make a name for itself in U.S. investment banking and commercial lending, was less hesitant to do business with Trump.

Deutsche had a relatively intimate understanding of Trump's finances. Although Trump told me in 2004 and 2005 that his net worth was anywhere from $1.7 billion to $6 billion (and suggested it might even be $9.5 billion), my sources at the time told me his wealth was closer to $150 million to $250 million. When Trump litigated the point with me, my lawyers produced a Deutsche assessment of his finances that pegged his wealth at $788 million in 2005.

In recent years, Deutsche's private banking unit has loaned Trump money — about $300 million, according to Bloomberg News and Trump's government financial disclosure forms — for such projects as his Washington hotel and the Trump National Doral golf course.



Top Deutsche Bank AG executives were so concerned after the 2016 U.S. election that the Trump Organization might default on about $340 million of loans while Donald Trump was in office that they discussed extending repayment dates until after the end of a potential second term in 2025, according to people with knowledge of the discussions.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-02-20/deutsche-bank-weighed-restructuring-trump-loans-on-default-risk
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-11-29/deutsche-bank-s-troubles-are-donald-trump-s-troubles
https://internationalbusinessguide.org/trump-business-career/

[mashman]

Doesn’t tRump have team of people to explain what he meant by what he said?

It is a bigly team too and they probably eat a lot of hamberders

So that's a no then. TDS strikes again :killingme

[pritch]

So that's a no then. TDS strikes again :killingme

Wrong again. It goes like this...

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/W4YcXc6rRd0

[mashman]

Wrong again. It goes like this...

WTF are you talking about wrong? I asked for a quote whilst stating that I've never heard him state what 1/32 was stating that Trump had said. Also stated that I was not saying that Trump didn't say it. As such, you fit the TDS mould perfectly. Go on, say that you're not a Trump supporter and that therefore it's impossible to suffer TDS. Fuck that would make my day.

[pritch]

WTF are you talking about wrong? I asked for a quote whilst stating that I've never heard him state what 1/32 was stating that Trump had said. Also stated that I was not saying that Trump didn't say it. As such, you fit the TDS mould perfectly. Go on, say that you're not a Trump supporter and that therefore it's impossible to suffer TDS. Fuck that would make my day.

Perhaps you should take your meds and have a lie down.

1/32 didn't say that Trump had said anything. He said Trump had a team to explain what what he meant. That's true, and they usually trot out nonsense very similar to that attachment I posted. Except it wouldn't normally be a group of women, it tends to be a succession of Trump's sycophantic politicians: Gaetz, Jordan and all.

Nah it's a lost cause. Back on ignore you go, you're not making any sense. :bye:

[mashman]

Perhaps you should take your meds and have a lie down.

1/32 didn't say that Trump had said anything. He said Trump had a team to explain what what he meant. That's true, and they usually trot out nonsense very similar to that attachment I posted. Except it wouldn't normally be a group of women, it tends to be a succession of Trump's sycophantic politicians: Gaetz, Jordan and all.

Nah it's a lost cause. Back on ignore you go, you're not making any sense. :bye:

:killingme.



Testing does not increase the number of people with a disease
tRump thinks so

You clearly missed the post that created context. In other words, you misinterpreted what was going on by selecting the wrong post that my reply was to and went all spazlike. Fucking spectacular effort though Son, coz you constantly accuse Trump of doing those very things.

[husaberg]

Nah it's a lost cause. Back on ignore you go, you're not making any sense. :bye:

Good idea he soon will be on more ignore lists than he had votes in the last election.

[pritch]

Trump paid three million dollars for recounts in the two most populace Wisconsin counties. (He couldn't afford the eight million for a full recount.). The second county has now reported in, it too increased Biden's vote count. This time by 87.

So the idiot in chief spent three million dollars increasing Bidens majority by over 200 votes. Three dimensional chess indeed. :lol:

[TheDemonLord]

Why dont you just say where the extra 700000 votes are?

Remember I said 'if true', the figures were pulled from a public source - if they are wrong, then we'll find that out in the course of the legal process.

But let's take the numbers from the 'fact check' - and there's 2 things that jump out:

Firstly - almost a 90% return rate for the Democrat registered mail-in voters - which is quite high. 10% higher than the Republican and Independent registered voters. The unregistered voter return rate is also 5% higher than the Republican and Independent return rate (which are within 0.2% of each other) - the fact that the Independants and Republican return rates are so close to each other, suggests that this should be taken as a Baseline.

Secondly - look at the Mail-in Tally for Biden - 1.99 Million Mail in votes (as per the screenshot, that doesn't represent the final vote tally), then look at the supposedly 'accurate' final mail-in ballot numbers - in order to hit 1.99 Million (remember, not his final tally):

- Every single registered Democrat would need to vote for Biden (fair enough, most likely to have happened).
- Every single unregistered voter would also need to vote for Biden (That's a bit odd - that of unregistered voters, 100% of them would vote for Biden - That is what we call a discrepency)

And that only gets Biden to 1.98 Million votes (assuming 100% of the returned ballots for those 2 groups are for him)

- A Number of registered republicans would ALSO need to vote for Biden (which is not impossible, but given the above assumption we are making for the Democrats, it's a bit suspicious)

And then we do the inverse:

Donald Trumps figures (as per the screenshot):

- Not every registered republican voting for him (as above not impossible)
- No unregistered voters voting for him (odd)
- No registered Democrat voting for him (which is reasonable, but still a bit odd)

As I've said multiple times, none of these are conclusively prove 'fraud' - but if your tally requires 100% (or close to 100%) of a demographic to do something, that's suspicious.

[sugilite]

usual wall of text

With nearly 40 - 40!!!! failed court cases and still no fraud proved is a veritable mountain of evidence to support there was in fact near 0% voter fraud, you are clinging on to a comparatively sized small grain of sand of a now deleted and debunked post. This is taking the defend your position at all costs to impressive new levels :yes:

Latest Trump fail.... note this paragraph - very similar to the comments made regarding a lot of these cases "Justices also remarked on the lawsuit’s staggering demand that an entire election be overturned retroactively. “They have failed to allege that even a single mail-in ballot was fraudulently cast or counted,” justice David Wecht wrote in a concurring opinion."
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/29/pennsylvania-supreme-court-throws-out-republican-bid-to-reject-25m-mail-in-votes

Fellow Demonlord Trump loving desperadoes over in fox news comment sections are clinging onto the notion that this is Trumps cunning plan to lose all these cases in order to get to the Supreme court where his legal team will triumphantly lay out the compelling evidence that the Trump team has been hiding from the other courts. - These desperadoes are telling everyone else to "sit back, watch and learn". :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

With nearly 40 - 40!!!! failed court cases and still no fraud proved is a veritable mountain of evidence to support there was in fact near 0% voter fraud, you are clinging on to a comparatively sized small grain of sand of a now deleted and debunked post. This is taking the defend your position at all costs to impressive new levels :yes:

That wasn't the post I initially referenced - namely the claim in the Gettysburg hearing - If it's incorrect, then fair enough.

Going back to the debunk though - there are some oddities in the numbers as they are presented in the debunk:

Do you think it's reasonable to expect 100% or near 100% of unregistered mail-in voters to vote for Biden?

[pritch]

This report concerns the arsehole Pennsylvania politician who was trying to get that state's 'electors' to vote for Trump at the Electoral College, against the will of the people of his state as determined by the election. I've mentioned him here a couple of times lately. Now he's in the news again for taking COVID to The White House..

https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-pennsylvania-gettysburg-coronavirus-pandemic-70354ddc031781fb7ee476809a6b67db

[husaberg]

About four in 10 registered voters plan to cast their ballot by mail-in voting (or have already done so), according to a Pew Research survey.

Supporters of Democratic candidate Joe Biden overwhelmingly favor mail-in voting when compared to Trump supporters.

Of the registered voters who plan to cast their ballot, 51% of Biden supporters say they will vote by mail, whereas 39% of Trump supporters said they will do the same. An estimated 50% of Trump supporters will vote in person on Election Day, whereas only 20% of Biden supporters plan to do the same.

Despite the preference, Hall, who led the Stanford University study, tells DW that mail-in voting may not necessarily give Democrats a notable advantage.

"Right now, a lot more Democrats than Republicans are voting by mail, but on its own, that won't inherently advantage the Democrats electorally because most of these Democratic voters would probably have voted in person if they didn't vote by mail," said Hall to DW.
https://www.dw.com/en/us-election-mail-in-voting-biden-trump/a-55433216

[pritch]

A campaign spending complaint by "Citizens for Ethics" has been made against Trump's Chief of Staff, Meadows. If found guilty this can carry a jail sentence. He claims to have spent $2650 on "printed materials" from this store: https://annhand.com



https://www.citizensforethics.org/legal-action/legal-complaints/crew-files-complaint-against-mark-meadows-over-campaign-spending/

[testastretta]

That wasn't the post I initially referenced - namely the claim in the Gettysburg hearing - If it's incorrect, then fair enough.

Going back to the debunk though - there are some oddities in the numbers as they are presented in the debunk:

Do you think it's reasonable to expect 100% or near 100% of unregistered mail-in voters to vote for Biden?

Where are the 700000 votes? Anyway.......

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/28/fact-check-pennsylvania-ballot-claim-mixes-primary-general-election-data/6450032002/

[TheDemonLord]

Where are the 700000 votes? Anyway.......

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/28/fact-check-pennsylvania-ballot-claim-mixes-primary-general-election-data/6450032002/

We'll see what comes out as part of the Hearing - if it's not true, then fair enough.

[testastretta]

We'll see what comes out as part of the Hearing - if it's not true, then fair enough.

This claim of more mail in ballots sent in than were sent out is as credible as this Qanon bullshit https://gnews.org/535064/
The far right really are embarrassing themselves with such gullibilty. Everything is fake news unless it has come from the gospel of Saint Don.
Poor fucking losers!

[pritch]

As I've said multiple times, none of these are conclusively prove 'fraud' .

You almost got that much right at least. You will remember of course that every time a judge has asked one of Trump's lawyers, both the respectable ones he had originally, and the fringe dwellers he is forced to use now, if they are alleging fraud the answer has been explicit. They are not alleging fraud.

The only person talking fraud is Trump.

Speaking of whom, he now claims the FBI and the Justice Dept conspired against him to win the election for Biden. Time for the 25th Amendment and a rubber room.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-baselessly-suggests-fbi-rigged-election-against-him-in-first-post-election-interview

[R650R]

https://www.worldviewweekend.com/tv/video/wvw-tv-exclusive-lt-general-michael-flynns-first-interview-president-trumps-pardon

"In the video: General Flynn and General Mcinerney are interviewed. Flynn confirms quite a bit, but Mcinerney blows it all open. And The Kraken is the 305th Military Intelligence division. Confirmed by Mcinerney: China, Russia, and Iran were involved in the steal. The CIA is operating as an enemy and was running a server farm in Frankfurt which did get raided by special forces. The CIA killed five special forces. The election was rigged wholesale. This is a coup. And they are doing everything they can to stop this by the 14th of December, because if they do not, it is "going to get very dirty"."

[husaberg]

https://www.worldviewweekend.com/tv/video/wvw-tv-exclusive-lt-general-michael-flynns-first-interview-president-trumps-pardon

"In the video: General Flynn and General Mcinerney are interviewed. Flynn confirms quite a bit, but Mcinerney blows it all open. And The Kraken is the 305th Military Intelligence division. Confirmed by Mcinerney: China, Russia, and Iran were involved in the steal. The CIA is operating as an enemy and was running a server farm in Frankfurt which did get raided by special forces. The CIA killed five special forces. The election was rigged wholesale. This is a coup. And they are doing everything they can to stop this by the 14th of December, because if they do not, it is "going to get very dirty"."

So you believe the guy that was convicted of lying and perjury.... over all the evidence that says the ooposite.

[pritch]

So you believe the guy that was convicted of lying and perjury.... over all the evidence that says the ooposite.

Dude, are you really going to try to have a serious conversation about that load of nonsense. There must be some serious drugs about because somebody is surely tripping.

[husaberg]

Dude, are you really going to try to have a serious conversation about that load of nonsense. There must be some serious drugs about because somebody is surely tripping.

I just wanted to see the logic of how he thought the dude could be taken seriously considering he had been found to have committed perjury. Plus lying to the FBI investigation.

[pritch]

I just wanted to see the logic of how he thought the dude could be taken seriously considering he had been found to have committed perjury. Plus lying to the FBI investigation.

I've listened to some of that clip and I'm starting to have grave doubts about the mental state of some relatively senior US Army people. The Colonel of whom the general speaks highly is the arsehole Pennsylvania Senator I've mantioned a couple times lately, who it could be said was actually trying to organise a coup. Although it was more coo coo than coup.

The Yanks haven't just got a COVID pandemic, they've got a pandemic of stupid.

[SaferRides]

YouTube thought I would like to see the recent Trump interview with Fox, so I had a look. It is quite disturbing, especially if Trump actually believes what he is saying.

January 20 seems a long ways off.

[TheDemonLord]

You almost got that much right at least. You will remember of course that every time a judge has asked one of Trump's lawyers, both the respectable ones he had originally, and the fringe dwellers he is forced to use now, if they are alleging fraud the answer has been explicit. They are not alleging fraud.


The key things they are alleging are:

1: The proper process of scrutineering was either not done or in some instances was hampered by Election staff for Republican Poll watchers
2: The Machines used to count have technical vulnerabilities
3: There are statistical irregularities

And all of these things that are alleged benefit Biden.

If they are proved true - especially point number 1, then a number of votes that were not properly validated need to be thrown out/discarded.

[TheDemonLord]

This claim of more mail in ballots sent in than were sent out is as credible as this Qanon bullshit https://gnews.org/535064/
The far right really are embarrassing themselves with such gullibilty. Everything is fake news unless it has come from the gospel of Saint Don.
Poor fucking losers!

And what say you on the stats presented by your debunk - that requires 100% of 2 separate groups of voters to vote for Biden?

[1/32 man]

I had to look up the Dunning Kruger syndrome....it applies to Trump.

[pritch]

If they are proved true - especially point number 1, then a number of votes that were not properly validated need to be thrown out/discarded.

Point number 1 has already been diisproved multiple times. it was a Trump fantasy with no basis in fact. Please pay attention.

Although the claim was made repeatedly, in not a single one of the cases held so far has it been found to be true. You may recall that all 39 cases (so far) were lost.

[pritch]

CNN call this "utterly unhinged," and it is. It's also hilarious, and at the same time it's sad. And it's a worry that this insanity comes from the most powerful man in the world.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/30/politics/donald-trump-maria-bartiromo-2020-election/index.html

[testastretta]

And what say you on the stats presented by your debunk - that requires 100% of 2 separate groups of voters to vote for Biden?

You obviously didnt read the article.

[TheDemonLord]

You obviously didnt read the article.

I looked at the numbers presented, did some quick additions and realized a count of 1.99 Million would require all of the received ballots from registered democrats, all of the received ballots from unregistered voters and that still has a shortfall.

Which isn't impossible, but is improbable. Just like a number of things that are improbable and just so happen to go Biden's way.

[husaberg]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/8bjjwAFbSytgZSIQYr4MXbxdAhMDrno-A_TkxCrn3WVN5pfCLcZDZ_zZVixp7HlCjnmnc36Pu7T2JgZ72q E1Y0XvjjrjzeBQW4OYY3lThp9I50142RjiRdvdZ9XB7cHsJS8n _JrNChg6BRIz5WdB9ELbv5nkyCRwstHoBaj7DVJNbRWRFg

[SaferRides]

This seems to be the part that the Trump people don't, or won't, understand, and wasn't clear to me until recently

"The Trump campaign said Monday it again asked Mr. Raffensperger to conduct an audit of the signatures on all absentee ballot applications and absentee ballot envelopes in the Nov. 3 general election.
Signatures already were verified, the secretary of state’s office has said. If the signatures were consistent, the envelopes were then separated from the ballots to safeguard voters’ privacy." From the WSJ.

This is why the voting papers do not have signatures and cannot be subsequently re-verified once they have been removed from the mailing envelopes, which have the signature on the outside.

It is a simple and secure system, but is very manual and does rely on the election workers to correctly verify the signatures. You would expect mistakes, but the person checking the signatures has no idea how the person voted, so there should be no bias.

This system makes widespread manipulation of the ballots very difficult, unless there was a high level of collusion between the workers. And even then, real irregularities would show up in the voting stats, not the fake ones that the Trump people claim exist.

[sugilite]

All states now certified
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/arizona-wisconsin-election-certification-biden-trump

I never get sick of Trump losing. :laugh:
Some people seem to live charmed lives getting away with shit again and again, but then when it finally starts unraveling, it goes all the way. I do not believe Biden will go after Trump, but the IRS will nab the fucker, and plenty of his family too.
Does anyone know if people convicted of tax fraud in the US can go onto run for president?

[TheDemonLord]

Does anyone know if people convicted of tax fraud in the US can go onto run for president?

Seems relevant:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ4t_3amr3M

[R650R]

Anyone have any idea what's going to happen, in the Post Trump America (if that eventuates ;) )...

Right now you have a significant portion of the population still violently protesting, looting and burning stuff that's not theirs to burn.
Democrat controlled cities have let this infestation run rampant thinking it makes Trump look bad...

Trouble is it's gone on so long the people involved have been taught their actions have no consequence, it's their right to do what they want.
With no jobs for many of these leeches it's become their new hobby.
But soon the George Soros *cough* "pay checks" will stop coming....
These mobs will still be angry sad losers with nothing to do...

[george formby]

I'm wondering how the country will react when Kamala Harris becomes President.:shifty:

It's definitely on the cards.

[mashman]

Anyone have any idea what's going to happen, in the Post Trump America (if that eventuates ;) )...

Right now you have a significant portion of the population still violently protesting, looting and burning stuff that's not theirs to burn.
Democrat controlled cities have let this infestation run rampant thinking it makes Trump look bad...

Trouble is it's gone on so long the people involved have been taught their actions have no consequence, it's their right to do what they want.
With no jobs for many of these leeches it's become their new hobby.
But soon the George Soros *cough* "pay checks" will stop coming....
These mobs will still be angry sad losers with nothing to do...

I expect it likely that war, I mean conflict :tugger:, with Iran will take place once they hear about chemical weapons of mass destruction... or at the very least intelligence is gathered that says that the PM's brothers sisters cousins best mates dog sitters friend heard that the PM thinks that Biden lost the election.

[testastretta]

I looked at the numbers presented, did some quick additions and realized a count of 1.99 Million would require all of the received ballots from registered democrats, all of the received ballots from unregistered voters and that still has a shortfall.

Which isn't impossible, but is improbable. Just like a number of things that are improbable and just so happen to go Biden's way.

I will make it simple for you. The numbers you are using are only partially correct. Biden did receive almost 2 million votes by mail from more 3 MILLION REQUESTED MAIL IN BALLOTS!. Read the fucking article.

[pritch]

I will make it simple for you. The numbers you are using are only partially correct. Biden did receive almost 2 million votes by mail from more 3 MILLION REQUESTED MAIL IN BALLOTS!. Read the fucking article stupid.

TDL keeps banging on about statistical anomalies. It doesn't seem to have crossed his mind that if there was the slightest actual statistical anomaly it would have been produced as evidence in one of the 39 court cases that were lost for lack of any evidence at all. All of the officials, both Democrat and Republican, say the election was one of the fairest ever. The recounts have all confirmed the result.

Trump continues to live in his fantasy world and his sycophants encourage him. Only the seriously gullible are still hanging on to the trump train.

[TheDemonLord]

I will make it simple for you. The numbers you are using are only partially correct. Biden did receive almost 2 million votes by mail from more 3 MILLION REQUESTED MAIL IN BALLOTS!. Read the fucking article stupid.

Perhaps you should read what I wrote and what is in the Article.

In order to get to nearly 2 million votes by mail, he is required to get 100% of the registered Democrats (who voted by mail) AND 100% of the unregistered voters who voted by mail, and that still leaves him short.

I will, in turn, make it simple for you:

1,702,623
+
283,372
=
1,985,995

which is less than the screenshot in the article (so before counting had finished) of Biden's vote tally (By Mail) of 1,994,597.

Do you believe that 100% of unregistered voters, voted for Biden?

I will grant 100% of registered Democrats voting for Biden, but all unregistered as well? Rarely do you get 100% of anything in a naturally occurring set of data-points.

[testastretta]

Perhaps you should read what I wrote and what is in the Article.

In order to get to nearly 2 million votes by mail, he is required to get 100% of the registered Democrats (who voted by mail) AND 100% of the unregistered voters who voted by mail, and that still leaves him short.

I will, in turn, make it simple for you:

1,702,623
+
283,372
=
1,985,995

which is less than the screenshot in the article (so before counting had finished) of Biden's vote tally (By Mail) of 1,994,597.

Do you believe that 100% of unregistered voters, voted for Biden?

I will grant 100% of registered Democrats voting for Biden, but all unregistered as well? Rarely do you get 100% of anything in a naturally occurring set of data-points.

I edited my previous post to remove the word stupid. I was wrong to remove it.

The U.S. Elections Project reports that mail ballot request rates were 1,941,131 for Democrats; 784,851 for Republicans; 25,367 for a minor party; and 336,175 for independents, putting the total number requested at 3,087,524.

[testastretta]

Perhaps you should read what I wrote and what is in the Article.

In order to get to nearly 2 million votes by mail, he is required to get 100% of the registered Democrats (who voted by mail) AND 100% of the unregistered voters who voted by mail, and that still leaves him short.

I will, in turn, make it simple for you:

1,702,623
+
283,372
=
1,985,995

which is less than the screenshot in the article (so before counting had finished) of Biden's vote tally (By Mail) of 1,994,597.

Do you believe that 100% of unregistered voters, voted for Biden?

I will grant 100% of registered Democrats voting for Biden, but all unregistered as well? Rarely do you get 100% of anything in a naturally occurring set of data-points.


The number used in the post likely comes from election results of the state's June 2 primary in Pennsylvania.

A data set from the Pennsylvania Department of State on the primary election shows that 1,823,148 mail-in ballot requests were made, the exact number used in the post to claim that Pennsylvania mailed out that number of ballots for the 2020 general election.

The number of ballots returned as claimed in the post likely originated from primary election data, as well. According to a report from the Pennsylvania Department of State, nearly 1.5 million voters cast their vote by mail-in or absentee ballot in the Pennsylvania June primary.

There are no extra votes, as claimed.

Further, the Pennsylvania Department of State did not remove data from the presidential election from its website. The site shows that all the data is publicly available online and it does not match up to the numbers used in the claim.

[husaberg]

TDL keeps banging on about statistical anomalies. It doesn't seem to have crossed his mind that if there was the slightest actual statistical anomaly it would have been produced as evidence in one of the 39 court cases that were lost for lack of any evidence at all. All of the officials, both Democrat and Republican, say the election was one of the fairest ever. The recounts have all confirmed the result.

Trump continues to live in his fantasy world and his sycophants encourage him. Only the seriously gullible are still hanging on to the trump train.

Trump told his voters for at least 6 months that postal voting was bad the TLDR wonders why the trump voters didn't postal ballot.
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/07/the-presidents-trumped-up-claims-of-voter-fraud/
TDL's world and existence relies on trump being a winner.
it like every other subject, where he's clearly wrong, like trump he will never admit it preferring to claim he know better the Courts the judges the law etc.

[sugilite]

which is less than the screenshot in the article (so before counting had finished) of Biden's vote tally (By Mail) of 1,994,597.

Do you believe that 100% of unregistered voters, voted for Biden?

I will grant 100% of registered Democrats voting for Biden, but all unregistered as well? Rarely do you get 100% of anything in a naturally occurring set of data-points.

Still pushing that grain of sand around?
Trump is likely going to dip into the slush fund and send you a chocolate fish, because it is people like you that are keeping his latest scam (linked below) moving along nicely. I don't mean you paid a donation, rather that you keep giving life to the Trump teams stolen election narrative despite the weight of evidence being a veritable rock bolder at one end of the seesaw that no election fraud occurred, as against the Trump campaigns grain of sand at the other.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300172335/us-election-trump-raises-more-than-150m-off-false-election-claims

[1/32 man]

Keeping the narrative going is financially beneficial for tRump.
His base keep making donations $US130,000,000 so far.

Seems that lying pays big time.

[TheDemonLord]

TDL keeps banging on about statistical anomalies. It doesn't seem to have crossed his mind that if there was the slightest actual statistical anomaly it would have been produced as evidence in one of the 39 court cases that were lost for lack of any evidence at all. All of the officials, both Democrat and Republican, say the election was one of the fairest ever. The recounts have all confirmed the result.

That's because an Anomaly does not prove fraud, which is the legal threshold.

You've got a record voter turn out - that surpasses the previous biggest voter turn-out of the modern age,
You've got a result that hasn't occurred in over 100 years (excluding the JFK result),
You've got vote tallys that don't seem to follow predictive models for a naturally occurring set of numbers.
You've got the 'fact checked' data that indicates Biden would need 100% support from both registered democrats and unregistered voters in Mail-In ballots to achieve his total.

None of which proves (to a legal standard) fraud, but it is very interesting that all of these anomalies only seem to go one way.

[TheDemonLord]

Still pushing that grain of sand around?
Trump is likely going to dip into the slush fund and send you a chocolate fish, because it is people like you that are keeping his latest scam (linked below) moving along nicely. I don't mean you paid a donation, rather that you keep giving life to the Trump teams stolen election narrative despite the weight of evidence being a veritable rock bolder at one end of the seesaw that no election fraud occurred, as against the Trump campaigns grain of sand at the other.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300172335/us-election-trump-raises-more-than-150m-off-false-election-claims

The irony of the comment is that I'm really not a fan of Chocolate fish.

Put it another way - I didn't make these accusations when Jacinda won - as much as I despise her - she won the NZ election fair and square, she had a massive grassroots level support and on the night of the election, she was clearly the winner.

Biden couldn't fill a carpark at his 'rallies', even with social distancing and people in their cars, whereas Trump was pulling huge crowds.

Then, I watched the American election - and on the night of the election, in all the swing states, Trump had a comfortable lead.

Then I saw spikes of votes for Biden, whilst the count percentage was at 99% in multiple states, which continued all the way until Biden just sneaked past Trump in key states.

So yeah, I'm suspicious. Then I look at some of the other facts about the numbers and we see some interesting things - I've given them previously - and that makes me suspicious. If you want to level the accusation that the fact ' My Guy lost' is part of that - Be my guest, as that is certainly an aspect.

I've set my standard of proof - I'll defer to the result once all the legal challenges have been concluded.

[TheDemonLord]

I edited my previous post to remove the word stupid. I was wrong to remove it.

The U.S. Elections Project reports that mail ballot request rates were 1,941,131 for Democrats; 784,851 for Republicans; 25,367 for a minor party; and 336,175 for independents, putting the total number requested at 3,087,524.


The number used in the post likely comes from election results of the state's June 2 primary in Pennsylvania.

A data set from the Pennsylvania Department of State on the primary election shows that 1,823,148 mail-in ballot requests were made, the exact number used in the post to claim that Pennsylvania mailed out that number of ballots for the 2020 general election.

The number of ballots returned as claimed in the post likely originated from primary election data, as well. According to a report from the Pennsylvania Department of State, nearly 1.5 million voters cast their vote by mail-in or absentee ballot in the Pennsylvania June primary.

There are no extra votes, as claimed.

Further, the Pennsylvania Department of State did not remove data from the presidential election from its website. The site shows that all the data is publicly available online and it does not match up to the numbers used in the claim.

You are arguing a point that I've moved on from and confusing it with the point I'm currently making.

I'm not talking about the Ballot Requests, I'm talking about the received Ballots - that Biden with 100% of the received ballots, by registered Democrats and 100% of the received ballots by unregistered voters, still cannot make the total of mail-in votes that he received.

100% of any group in a naturally occurring set of numbers is suspicious.

[Kickaha]

Biden couldn't fill a carpark at his 'rallies', even with social distancing and people in their cars, whereas Trump was pulling huge crowds.


Because they decided to keep the numbers small and they were mostly invite only, something to do with some pandemic, where as Trump didn't give a shit about his voter base potentially being exposed to and spreading Covid

[SaferRides]

You are arguing a point that I've moved on from and confusing it with the point I'm currently making.

I'm not talking about the Ballot Requests, I'm talking about the received Ballots - that Biden with 100% of the received ballots, by registered Democrats and 100% of the received ballots by unregistered voters, still cannot make the total of mail-in votes that he received.

100% of any group in a naturally occurring set of numbers is suspicious.Can I check where this data is from? It is very different to what I found here: https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/PA.html

This gives a return rate of 87.7% for Democrats and 84.4% for no affiliation.

[TheDemonLord]

Can I check where this data is from? It is very different to what I found here: https://electproject.github.io/Early-Vote-2020G/PA.html

This gives a return rate of 87.7% for Democrats and 84.4% for no affiliation.

Yep - that's the same figures I'm using.

Biden needs 100% of the Democratic vote and 100% of the Unregistered vote and that still doesn't reach his tally (as per the debunk site) of 1.99 million votes.

100% of anything is suspicious.

[SaferRides]

Yep - that's the same figures I'm using.

Biden needs 100% of the Democratic vote and 100% of the Unregistered vote and that still doesn't reach his tally (as per the debunk site) of 1.99 million votes.

100% of anything is suspicious.Have you been able to get to the official election website? It keeps redirecting me to votespa.com.

[pritch]

Then, I watched the American election - and on the night of the election, in all the swing states, Trump had a comfortable lead.

Then I saw spikes of votes for Biden, whilst the count percentage was at 99% in multiple states, which continued all the way until Biden just sneaked past Trump in key states.


How old are you? I'm only asking because I'm curious as to how many elections you've seen. These "anomalies" are completely normal and expected, it's similar in this country. The sparsely populated rural areas get their votes in first and they tended to favour Trump. (It's probably the inbreeding.) The big population centres arrive later because they involve more work and they tended to favour Biden.

This worked entirely as expected, prior to the election it was referred to as "the red mirage". There was concern that Trump would declare himself the winner late on the night of the election while he appeared to be ahead. The concern was justified as he did claim the win that night. As the votes came in from the bigger population centres though Biden took the lead. There is nothing anomalous about any of this.

The rallies? There is no question Trump had a lot of support. Over seven million voted for him. It's just that over eight million recognised Trump for the utterly incompetent grifter, devoid of any sense of decency, that he is. They were determined to vote him out of the White House and despite Trump's attempts to corrupt the election they succeeded. Or should have. Currently we have an NPD sufferer unable to accept reality.

Not satisfied with losing he has ordered recounts and lost again - and again. Still not satisfied with the amount of losing he's lost court cases - thirty nine of them. As he might put it, there's never been so much losing.

[TheDemonLord]

How old are you? I'm only asking because I'm curious as to how many elections you've seen. These "anomalies" are completely normal and expected, it's similar in this country.

Except they aren't.

First time since 1960 (or 1906 if you discount the JFK election) - where the Incumbent president gained seats in the house and senate, but lost the election
First time (I believe) that an incumbent president has gained votes, but lost the election.
First time in recent memory that Ohio and Florida results didn't match the election outcome.
Biggest voter turnout (as a percentage) since 1900.
First time since 1968 that the turnout got over 60% (estimate final turnout was 72%).
The biggest change in voter turnout since 1840.

Those are not normal or expected, those are some serious outliers.

[husaberg]

there's never been so much losing.
Too true .......

[sugilite]

The irony of the comment is that I'm really not a fan of Chocolate fish.

Put it another way - I didn't make these accusations when Jacinda won - as much as I despise her - she won the NZ election fair and square, she had a massive grassroots level support and on the night of the election, she was clearly the winner.

Biden couldn't fill a carpark at his 'rallies', even with social distancing and people in their cars, whereas Trump was pulling huge crowds.

Then, I watched the American election - and on the night of the election, in all the swing states, Trump had a comfortable lead.

Then I saw spikes of votes for Biden, whilst the count percentage was at 99% in multiple states, which continued all the way until Biden just sneaked past Trump in key states.

So yeah, I'm suspicious. Then I look at some of the other facts about the numbers and we see some interesting things - I've given them previously - and that makes me suspicious. If you want to level the accusation that the fact ' My Guy lost' is part of that - Be my guest, as that is certainly an aspect.

I've set my standard of proof - I'll defer to the result once all the legal challenges have been concluded.

Yeah, trump often gives people things they don't want, like covid for instance.
As others mentioned, the avalanche of Biden votes later in the evening came from mail in ballots and was completely expected.
After previously claiming you had not been following the legal challenges, you are now attaching your standard of proof on their outcomes. :laugh:
These cases are not going well for Trump due to a lack of pesty proof.
Even devout wingman to Trump Bill Barr has come out and said there is no evidence.
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2020/dec/01/us-election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-scott-atlas-coronavirus-covid-live-updates

The only evidence im seeing is your defend your position at all costs syndrome. :yes:

[pritch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6Y4XwiLD0o

[pritch]

Except they aren't.

First time since 1960 (or 1906 if you discount the JFK election) - where the Incumbent president gained seats in the house and senate, but lost the election
First time (I believe) that an incumbent president has gained votes, but lost the election.
First time in recent memory that Ohio and Florida results didn't match the election outcome.
Biggest voter turnout (as a percentage) since 1900.
First time since 1968 that the turnout got over 60% (estimate final turnout was 72%).
The biggest change in voter turnout since 1840.

Those are not normal or expected, those are some serious outliers.

Not at all, you are just blind to reality, to the utter contempt normal people have for this corrupt arsehole. That's going to cause some "outliers" but you're attaching more significance to them than is justified. He lost in a landslide. Get used to it.

[TheDemonLord]

After previously claiming you had not been following the legal challenges, you are now attaching your standard of proof on their outcomes. :laugh:

That's conflating 2 things: I've said my main cause for doubt is the number discrepancies. As above to Pritch - the result requires me to believe a number of firsts and a number of historically unprecedented results. Not impossible, but definitely improbable. Hence my Doubts.

However - I said right at the very start, when stating my doubts that I trust the checks and balances of the legal system.

So whilst I may not be following the legal challenges per se and don't care for what the lawyers are arguing - I will defer to the judgement once all of the legal wranglings have been completed.

[TheDemonLord]

Not at all, you are just blind to reality, to the utter contempt normal people have for this corrupt arsehole.

That's going to cause some "outliers" but you're attaching more significance to them than is justified. He lost in a landslide. Get used to it.

Which is it Pritch? A Moment ago you said this is all Normal, now you seem to state it was unprecedented and going to cause Outliers?

Is it normal or are there Outliers?

If there are Outliers and a number of historic firsts or rare events - you can hardly say that skepticism is unwarranted.

[sugilite]

That's conflating 2 things: I've said my main cause for doubt is the number discrepancies. As above to Pritch - the result requires me to believe a number of firsts and a number of historically unprecedented results. Not impossible, but definitely improbable. Hence my Doubts.

However - I said right at the very start, when stating my doubts that I trust the checks and balances of the legal system.

So whilst I may not be following the legal challenges per se and don't care for what the lawyer
s are arguing - I will defer to the judgement once all of the legal wranglings have been completed.

So even though Barr has said no evidence of fraud, you are placing weight on Trumps Rudy Guliani teams "investigations" ?
Mate, you got to be having a laugh? :laugh:

Trump will be pissed with Barr, that announcement will be reducing donations to his latest scam lol

[TheDemonLord]

So even though Barr has said no evidence of fraud, you are placing weight on Trumps Rudy Guliani teams "investigations" ?
Mate, you got to be having a laugh? :laugh:

Trump will be pissed with Barr, that announcement will be reducing donations to his latest scam lol

That's clearly not what I've said - Lawyers gonna Lawyer, Judges gonna Judge. I trust the legal process and checks/balances.

What I placed my weight on is the oddities of the Numbers.

[sugilite]

That's clearly not what I've said - Lawyers gonna Lawyer, Judges gonna Judge. I trust the legal process and checks/balances.

What I placed my weight on is the oddities of the Numbers.

Bullshit, you clearly stated you had attached your standard of proof to the court cases.
So they are close to 40/1 losing ratio, good luck with that.
And with classy individuals on the Trump team like the asshole below, this is who you are trusting huh?


https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/01/trump-lawyer-joe-digenova-election-security-chief-chris-krebs-shot

[TheDemonLord]

Bullshit, you clearly stated you had attached your standard of proof to the court cases.
So they are close to 40/1 losing ratio, good luck with that.
And with classy individuals on the Trump team like the asshole below, this is who you are trusting huh?


I'm not trusting anybody. I'm trusting the process, with it's checks and balances.

If, after all the legal wrangling completes, Biden is still the Winner - then Biden is the Winner. That is what I mean by that's my Standard of Proof. I'll defer to the courts, once all the Lawyers have done their Lawyering.

I've stated my reasons for being suspicious of the result, which is not based on Testimony, Affadavits etc. - Yourself and Pritch have your explanations, I've said it's not impossible, but it is (objectively) improbable, both on it's own merits and based on the above historical trends.

[pritch]

And with classy individuals on the Trump team like the asshole below, this is who you are trusting huh?

The link didn't work but I can see to what you are referring. The FBI should be on to that prick and his licence to practice should be revoked.

Lou Dodds, who gives every indication of being senile, said recently that Trump should take drastic action to stop the election being stolen. This sort of nonsense is dangerous in the US with all those educationally sub normal fuckwits in their make believe militias.

The other day Maria Bartiromo, who was considered a good financial journaalist once, gave Trump an oportunity to rant unopposed for an extended period on Fox. During his unhinged verbal meanderings he stated that the FBI and the Dept of Justice had worked against his reelection. This ignores that Barr, who Trump appointed, has supported his 'mad king' faithfully since he was appointed.

Today Barr bit back. The subsequent meeting should be ummm interesting?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/01/william-barr-no-evidence-voter-fraud

It's a long time since Giuliani practiced law - and it shows. He's ranting that the DOJ should be investigating "irregularities." The same irreglarities for which he has no evidence.
The Constitution gives responsibility for running elections to the individual states. There is normally no role for federal government agencies.

[pritch]

A grifter's gonna grift.

Pardons for sale...

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-pardon-bribery-scheme-court-case_n_5fc6ce68c5b6c869173c9f92



And pardons for services rendered?

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/trump-rudy-giuliani-pardons/index.html



On a lighter note:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc2frG1QJRY

[pritch]

Powerful stuff.


https://nitter.dark.fail/gpbnews/status/1333886597264240640#m

[testastretta]

You are arguing a point that I've moved on from and confusing it with the point I'm currently making.

I'm not talking about the Ballot Requests, I'm talking about the received Ballots - that Biden with 100% of the received ballots, by registered Democrats and 100% of the received ballots by unregistered voters, still cannot make the total of mail-in votes that he received.

100% of any group in a naturally occurring set of numbers is suspicious.

What have you moved on from? The 700,000 votes? The incorrect Mastriano totals?
Your wanking on about Biden needing 100% of Democrat and unregistered votes and still not having enough is not even true.
Trump recieved approximately 27,000 less votes from republicans than republican ballots returned, about 4%. But that percentage could be and most likely is higher. At 10% that would have brought his total votes down to around 560,000 with 62,000 going to Biden and or Jorgenson. Trumps total then taken up to 595,000 by way of unregistered voters.
In a swing state and a type of voting constantly citicised by Trump this is entirely possible.

[husaberg]

Not at all, you are just blind to reality, to the utter contempt normal people have for this corrupt arsehole. That's going to cause some "outliers" but you're attaching more significance to them than is justified. He lost in a landslide. Get used to it.

"First time since 1968 that the turnout got over 60% (estimate final turnout was 72%)."

other than 2004 and 2008......
https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/960x0/https%3A%2F%2Fblogs-images.forbes.com%2Frealspin%2Ffiles%2F2016%2F12%2 Fthumbnail_Slide2-1200x674.jpg

The other thing of course was where was TLDL when this stat was happening, only 4 times has a US press won the presidency but lost the popular vote


1824: Andrew Jackson won pluralities of both the popular vote and the Electoral College, but not a majority, sending the election to the House of Representatives. There were three other candidates, like Jackson members of the Democratic-Republican Party — John Quincy Adams, William Crawford and Henry Clay. Clay threw his support to Adams, sealing the victory for Adams, who made Clay his secretary of state. Irate at this “corrupt bargain,” Jackson quit the Senate and ran again for president in 1828. That time, he won easily.


1876: Democrat Samuel Tilden beat Republican Rutherford B. Hayes by more than 200,000 votes. But he needed 185 Electoral College votes and got only 184 to Hayes’s 165; 20 votes in Florida, Louisiana, Oregon and South Carolina were disputed. Congress set up a commission composed of representatives of both parties to decide the winner; on March 2, three days before the inauguration, they chose Hayes — a compromise the Democrats agreed to in exchange for a promise to pull federal troops from the South, ending Reconstruction.

1888: The campaign was riddled with corruption, including charges that votes were bought and Black votes suppressed. It ended with Democratic President Grover Cleveland winning the popular vote by more than 90,000 votes over Republican Benjamin Harrison, but losing the electoral vote 233 to 168. Cleveland would take back the office in the next presidential election.

2000: Republican George W. Bush lost the popular vote to Democrat Al Gore by more than 500,000 votes. But the Electoral College vote was tight, and it all came down to Florida, where a recount devolved into disputes over the markings on individual ballots. On Dec. 12, the U.S. Supreme Court stopped the recount with Bush ahead in Florida, giving the election to the former Texas governor. Bush won 271 electoral votes, Gore 266.


2016: Trump won the Electoral College, 304 electoral votes to Hillary Clinton’s 227 — but lost the popular count by 2.8 million votes. Though the electorate has of course grown over the years, Trump lost the popular vote by a greater margin than anyone ever elected president.


Powerful stuff.


https://nitter.dark.fail/gpbnews/status/1333886597264240640#m

That shows all that is wrong with the trump politics.

[pritch]

By now we should all understand what s230 is about. Unless s230 is repealed he is going to withhold approval of the military budget. Ah well, it's only forty nine days.

[SaferRides]

A most interesting day with William Barr, the Attorney General, stating that there was no widespread election fraud.

So, will Trump accept reality or have a major meltdown?

[Laava]

A most interesting day with William Barr, the Attorney General, stating that there was no widespread election fraud.

So, will Trump accept reality or have a major meltdown?
Trump accepting reality? I think that ship has sailed!

[TheDemonLord]

What have you moved on from? The 700,000 votes? The incorrect Mastriano totals?
Your wanking on about Biden needing 100% of Democrat and unregistered votes and still not having enough is not even true.
Trump recieved approximately 27,000 less votes from republicans than republican ballots returned, about 4%. But that percentage could be and most likely is higher. At 10% that would have brought his total votes down to around 560,000 with 62,000 going to Biden and or Jorgenson. Trumps total then taken up to 595,000 by way of unregistered voters.
In a swing state and a type of voting constantly citicised by Trump this is entirely possible.

So, if they didn't vote for Trump, Biden, Jorgensen and they weren't rejected ballots (as only 5,000 were rejected) - where did the Votes go?

[TheDemonLord]

"First time since 1968 that the turnout got over 60% (estimate final turnout was 72%)."

other than 2004 and 2008......[/IMG]

Not according to Census.govt: https://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/12statab/election.pdf

And you'll note the fairly consistent voter turnout across the last 20 years, and then this election gets a turnout, estimated at 72%


The other thing of course was where was TLDL when this stat was happening, only 4 times has a US press won the presidency but lost the popular vote

I didn't say anything about the Popular Vote...

[testastretta]

So, if they didn't vote for Trump, Biden, Jorgensen and they weren't rejected ballots (as only 5,000 were rejected) - where did the Votes go?

What are you talking about? They either went to Biden (more likely) or Jorgensen (much less likely)
.

[TheDemonLord]

What are you talking about? They either went to Biden (more likely) or Jorgensen (much less likely)
.

I've been very clear in this. The Maths is very simple, for Biden to get the number of Votes he did, he needs 100% of the returned registered Democrat Ballots (which isn't unreasonable), 100% of the unregistered voter Ballot (which IS unreasonable) and a percentage of the registered Republican Ballots (which, given the other assumptions is a tad unreasonable)

If you adjust up or adjust down the totals of where the votes went to (because 100% of anything is suspicious) you either exceed the count for what Trump got or you exceed the count for what Jorgensen got.

We know that only 5,000 mail-in ballots were rejected - so where did the votes go if not for Biden, Trump or Jorgensen if you want to claim that he didn't get near 100% of the mail-in vote for both Registered Democrats and Unregistered voters.

[mashman]

Interesting eye witness testimony from an IT Contractor working for Dominion at the election. Eye witness. Hmmm, evidence? Nah.. she's lying.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOwbJqPlXHI

[testastretta]

I've been very clear in this. The Maths is very simple, for Biden to get the number of Votes he did, he needs 100% of the returned registered Democrat Ballots (which isn't unreasonable), 100% of the unregistered voter Ballot (which IS unreasonable) and a percentage of the registered Republican Ballots (which, given the other assumptions is a tad unreasonable)

If you adjust up or adjust down the totals of where the votes went to (because 100% of anything is suspicious) you either exceed the count for what Trump got or you exceed the count for what Jorgensen got.

We know that only 5,000 mail-in ballots were rejected - so where did the votes go if not for Biden, Trump or Jorgensen if you want to claim that he didn't get near 100% of the mail-in vote for both Registered Democrats and Unregistered voters.

Biden does not need 100% of any vote. If you can't figure that out then you not even capable of basic arithmetic.

[TheDemonLord]

Biden does not need 100% of any vote. If you can't figure that out then you not even capable of basic arithmetic.

'Or Close to'

[SaferRides]

First Barr, now Ducey. These guys are both very close to Trump and have had enough of the BS.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics/doug-ducey-donald-trump-arizona-voter-fraud-claims/index.html

[R650R]

Trump lays it all out in a dignified and easy to understand manner...

Note this vid has 1.7million views in 4 hrs, meanwhile Biden’s thanks giving g vid 204k in 6 days....


https://youtu.be/720O_yBLrTs

[husaberg]

Biden does not need 100% of any vote. If you can't figure that out then you not even capable of basic arithmetic.

Give up on him he's using figures from two different elections to claim an anomaly when the anomaly is in his lack of basic levels of intellegence.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/28/fact-check-pennsylvania-ballot-claim-mixes-primary-general-election-data/6450032002/

[R650R]

Mail trucks always get unloaded promptly, this is real suspect...


https://youtu.be/R0xaA4dYsbQ

[sugilite]

Interesting eye witness testimony from an IT Contractor working for Dominion at the election. Eye witness. Hmmm, evidence? Nah.. she's lying.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOwbJqPlXHI
Yet the likes of top Trump protector Bill Barr is clearly not putting any weight on it.

Trump lays it all out in a dignified and easy to understand manner...

Note this vid has 1.7million views in 4 hrs, meanwhile Biden’s thanks giving g vid 204k in 6 days....



https://youtu.be/720O_yBLrTs

The voting ratio was a little different eh. Plenty of viewers will be just checking in to see another loser cry baby session from trump lol

Mail trucks always get unloaded promptly, this is real suspect...


https://youtu.be/R0xaA4dYsbQ
Rubbish, they were just dropping off a bunch of straw for Trump supporters to grasp at.

And what it is really all about - keep donating Trump base losers :laugh:

[testastretta]

'Or Close to'
You're full of shit.
Maybe you should take your motocycle for a ride. If you even have one.
You Trumpsters are in the same catagory as those religous nut jobs that throw their money at Kenneth Copeland.

[pritch]

Trump lays it all out in a dignified and easy to understand manner...


Perhaps, if you consider watching the rantings of a delusional mental case "dignified". Only the excessively gullible would consider any of that "easy to understand."

I would agree with him that democracy in the US is under attack. It's under attack from Donald J Trump.

The election result was a win by Biden in a landslide. That should not be a difficult concept to grasp, but here we are...

[mashman]

Yet the likes of top Trump protector Bill Barr is clearly not putting any weight on it.

I guess that rules him out as being Trump's protector then... and by extension the outcome of the Russia thing that the opposition misused their position to push over 4 years. If yer gonna hang Trump for having done nothing in particular, but not Obama and their lies during the last election, then there's something seriously amiss with ones compass. Both are up to their necks in it no matter what, and "we" are picking sides of the same bird :killingme

[HenryDorsetCase]

Perhaps, if you consider watching the rantings of a delusional mental case "dignified". Only the excessively gullible would consider any of that "easy to understand."

I would agree with him that democracy in the US is under attack. It's under attack from Donald J Trump.

The election result was a win by Biden in a landslide. That should not be a difficult concept to grasp, but here we are...

Its a failed (so far) coup. Drumpf should be up against a wall and shot.

[george formby]

Its a failed (so far) coup. Drumpf should be up against a wall and shot.

Well, he could end up being walled in.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/trump-pardon-michael-flynn-bill-barr-bribery-b1765283.html

[pritch]

Its a failed (so far) coup. Drumpf should be up against a wall and shot.

Trump/Barr are making moves to bring back firing squads. It would be poetic justice if Trump was the first customer, but he'd likely be found mentally unfit to plead.

[Kickaha]

Trump lays it all out in a dignified and easy to understand manner...

Do you think that cockwomble really believes the shit he is spouting ?

He is also an incredibly crap speaker

[F5 Dave]

I'm astounded that this conversation is even taking place.

He's a cocksmoker of the highest order and make no mistake; He wouldn't lift a little finger to save your life unless there was something in it for him.

[sugilite]

I guess that rules him out as being Trump's protector then... and by extension the outcome of the Russia thing that the opposition misused their position to push over 4 years. If yer gonna hang Trump for having done nothing in particular, but not Obama and their lies during the last election, then there's something seriously amiss with ones compass. Both are up to their necks in it no matter what, and "we" are picking sides of the same bird :killingme

Trust me, I'm no Obama fan.

[husaberg]

Do you think that cockwomble really believes the shit he is spouting ?

He is also an incredibly crap speaker

Here is a a fine example of his first class wordsmithery.


“As soon as April, the vaccine will be available to the entire general population, with the exception of places like New York state, where for political reasons the governor decided to say – and I don’t think it’s good politically, I think it’s very bad from a health standpoint – but he wants to take his time on the vaccine,”

At school, even as a kiwi we even studied the speeches of Martin Luther King and JFK.

But the US has had a guy elected to the highest office that speaks like a ten-year-old.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsBOWSjOLsE

[mashman]

Trust me, I'm no Obama fan.

We're at the stage where someone who was cleared by the courts, Flynn, one could say wrongly convicted or at the very least convicted during a witch hunt that should have never taken place, a man was warned Trump that he was being "watched" before his first election, someone who was pretty high up in the intelligence services and so on..., is asking a sitting President, a complete fucking loon according to you guys and to a large extent pretty fuckin' obvious, to look at suspending the constitution. That's a pretty heavy request. So you reckon any sitting President should take that lightly? The General has gone bye bye and hasn't been brought to heal by the very intelligence services that he used to run? Maybe Flynn wants to get back inside to be with his lover, then again, maybe Flynn realises that Trump hasn't actually had a first term yet and that he was jailed and kept there by an administration that has friends all over the place, and that instead of Trump's first term, it was Obama's third ;)

Big, ha, big, calls with moderate fallout brought to bear by a "disgraced" General. No wonder lawyers don't want to touch it, because it calls into question everything.

[pritch]

We're at the stage where someone who was cleared by the courts,

A bad start. He was not cleared by the courts, he pled guilty to multiple charges. Trump pardoned him which means he will forever be guilty, the pardon just spares him whatever sentence he would have received. He needs to shut up or he may piss off the next Attorney General and find himself back in court.

Some politicians, Gym Jordan for one, say Flynn's pardon was not corrupt because the president can pardon whoever he likes. That's true as far as it goes, but if the president were to pardon a co-conspirator as payment for not implicating him, that would be corrupt. A good case could be made that's what happened with Flynn.

[mashman]

A bad start. He was not cleared by the courts, he pled guilty to multiple charges. Trump pardoned him which means he will forever be guilty, the pardon just spares him whatever sentence he would have received. He needs to shut up or he may piss off the next Attorney General and find himself back in court.

Some politicians, Gym Jordan for one, say Flynn's pardon was not corrupt because the president can pardon whoever he likes. That's true as far as it goes, but if the president were to pardon a co-conspirator as payment for not implicating him, that would be corrupt. A good case could be made that's what happened with Flynn.

You really do have the knowledge spread of a 4 year old and the eyes of the cyclops eh... which is mentioned at the end of the quote below.

U.S. Drops Michael Flynn Case, in Move Backed by Trump (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/07/us/politics/michael-flynn-case-dropped.html)

Despite the MSM's chest beating at the time and no matter how the media felt about the situation, the charges were dropped for exceptionally good reasons. In other words, reasonable doubt was such that there was no reason to fuck someone over simply because it fit a narrative that was momre than just shakey to begin with.

"Mr. Barr explained the decision as an effort to “restore confidence in the system” and that law enforcement officials had a duty to dismiss the charges. He said he was “doing the law’s bidding,” not Mr. Trump’s, and the Justice Department said that it did not brief the White House before it dropped the charges.

“Partisan feelings are so strong that people have lost any sense of justice,”* Mr. Barr said in an interview with CBS News."

* the eyes of the cyclops. The pardon was to convince morons that he was guilty but that Trump had let him go free. Hard to deny a truth that's as clear as day and in print in the NYTimes eh... despite how the NYTimes feel about it with the opinion piece that surrounds the facts.

[pritch]

You really do have the knowledge spread of a 4 year old and the eyes of the cyclops eh...



The Justice Dept asked Judge Sullivan to dismiss the charges, instead of doing so he appointed another judge to review the case. The charges had still not been dismissed. That was the state of play when Trump decided to pardon Flynn.

For the hard of thinking, Flynn was not innocent, he had pleaded guilty to multiple charges. He has accepted the pardon which also confirms his guilt.

As a matter of interest, Flynn's lawyer was Sidney Powell, she of the Kraken, who Trump's "elite strike force" had decided was too loopy even for them.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The Justice Dept asked Judge Sullivan to dismiss the charges, instead of doing so he appointed another judge to review the case. The charges had still not been dismissed. That was the state of play when Trump decided to pardon Flynn.

For the hard of thinking, Flynn was not innocent, he had pleaded guilty to multiple charges. He has accepted the pardon which also confirms his guilt.

As a matter of interest, Flynn's lawyer was Sidney Powell, she of the Kraken, who Trump's "elite strike force" had decided was too loopy even for them.

she will tout it as a win though. And in a way she'd be right.

[Banditbandit]

Flynn wants a military coup to keep drump in power - scary stuff

https://www.rawstory.com/2020/12/alarm-bells-sound-after-mike-flynn-endorses-military-coup-actual-fascism/?fbclid=IwAR22qdnSK7VNbJEXdZhTQ9pXnNBOTtFOi-IpCSWrkPvj31VDOwLF4c8CYZk#.X8ftfDkrt9w.facebook

[pritch]

Biden has beaten Trump by over seven million votes, the second highest margin against an incumbent since 1900.

I only mention that because such 'anomalies' keep TDL awake at night.

[RDJ]

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/12/03/trump-campaign-produces-video-alleging-georgia-ballots-were-hidden-in-suitcases-n2581012

Now, waiting for TDS to kick in, 3, 2, 1...

[R650R]

Do you think that cockwomble really believes the shit he is spouting ?

He is also an incredibly crap speaker

Your kidding he’s a great public speaker it’s just his message that understandable many disagree with.

Yes it’s a bit used car salesman esque with all the superlatives, but Trump understands whose buying his messages. He’s following a core leadership principle KISS keep it simple. Eg when the actual numbers don’t matter it’s fine to say Lots or Little rather than have some jumped up journo detail the message with oh last week you said 168,352 of xyz...

Most of us on this forum are prob well educated and enjoy the nuances of language and showing off some dance long words st times. But the bulk of the population isn’t that bright so best to keep it easy.
I think John key was similar too, keep it short and to point. Now look at Adern with her wild gestures and drawing in ten other factors into every issue that there working towards...

[mashman]

The Justice Dept asked Judge Sullivan to dismiss the charges, instead of doing so he appointed another judge to review the case. The charges had still not been dismissed. That was the state of play when Trump decided to pardon Flynn.

For the hard of thinking, Flynn was not innocent, he had pleaded guilty to multiple charges. He has accepted the pardon which also confirms his guilt.

As a matter of interest, Flynn's lawyer was Sidney Powell, she of the Kraken, who Trump's "elite strike force" had decided was too loopy even for them.

Flynn was shafted during a dodgy investigation. The FBI caught him on a technicality that Flynn could have easily lied about. He didn't. He asmitted that he had talked to the Russians but did not consider it pertinent to that which he was being accused of. The FBI thought otherwise. Given that the entire Russia debacle has been proven to be total poop with much dodgy dealings, Flynn gets to walk with his head held high as he rightly should. I would go back and find all of the detail again, but I simply can't be fucked. He was fucked over by the FBI for telling Trump he was being watched... but hey, that's just not a popular view it seems, coz authority never lies.

[RDJ]

Some more fuel for y'alls TDS...

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/12/03/trump-legal-team-we-have-so-much-evidence-of-fraud-in-nevada-we-had-to-rent-a-separate-car-n1187712

[RDJ]

https://twitter.com/KamVTV/status/1334567088657211394
Video footage from Georgia shows suitcases filled with ballots pulled from under a table AFTER supervisors told poll workers to leave room and 4 people stayed behind to keep counting votes

https://twitter.com/KamVTV/status/1334573392180211716

[pritch]

Flynn was shafted during a dodgy investigation. The FBI caught him on a technicality that Flynn could have easily lied about. He didn't. He asmitted that he had talked to the Russians but did not consider it pertinent to that which he was being accused of. The FBI thought otherwise. Given that the entire Russia debacle has been proven to be total poop with much dodgy dealings, Flynn gets to walk with his head held high as he rightly should. I would go back and find all of the detail again, but I simply can't be fucked. He was fucked over by the FBI for telling Trump he was being watched... but hey, that's just not a popular view it seems, coz authority never lies.

He was done for acting as an undeclared foreign agent (however they word that exactly). The country involved was Turkey, not Russia. It seems you have got a thing about Russia, RDS?. Although there is that interesting photo of Flynn at dinner with Putin. Lying to the Feds is a felony, and he pleaded guilty so he may well a convicted felon depending exactly how the court case wraps up. If there was a war on he could have been done for treason, he should be hanging his head in shame, not suggesting insurrection. Apparently leopards don't change their spots?

[mashman]

He was done for acting as an undeclared foreign agent (however they word that exactly). The country involved was Turkey, not Russia. It seems you have got a thing about Russia, RDS?. Although there is that interesting photo of Flynn at dinner with Putin. Lying to the Feds is a felony, and he pleaded guilty so he may well a convicted felon depending exactly how the court case wraps up. If there was a war on he could have been done for treason, he should be hanging his head in shame, not suggesting insurrection. Apparently leopards don't change their spots?

Working for a third party that had ties to the Turkish government. Sure, where there's smoke there's usually fire and as I said, he owned up to the possibility that technically it's hypothetical that the business dealings benefited the Turkish Government. He could have lied about it and fought the technicality, but he didn't. Lying to the FEDS? I ain't saying that he's squeaky clean because that gig is a dirty dirty dirty cutthroat ugly business... but he took his punishment under the law until common sense prevailed. Most definitely he should be holding his head high. Going after scalps......... dunno, if there's evidence to go after them, then I would find it hard to get upset at the man for fighting fire with fire, coz there's some real mad bastards out there.

[sugilite]

Unbelievable that people in this thread can give any credence at all to Trump and his teams claim when this is the best "witness" they can come up with. Keep in mind that she is being interviewed by a Republican. Gob smacking shit. Especially hilarious to see Rudy grabbing her arm in a futile effort to shut her up :laugh:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-donald-trump-campaign-witness-melissa-carone-the-star-of-fraud-hearing/VJA2GYLGRBBARNK4L3SQMRIXZQ/

[pritch]

Unbelievable that people in this thread can give any credence at all to Trump and his teams claim when this is the best "witness" they can come up with. Keep in mind that she is being interviewed by a Republican. Gob smacking shit. Especially hilarious to see Rudy grabbing her arm in a futile effort to shut her up :laugh:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-election-donald-trump-campaign-witness-melissa-carone-the-star-of-fraud-hearing/VJA2GYLGRBBARNK4L3SQMRIXZQ/

Didja miss the clip where Rudy farts audibly? Made as much sense as any of his other utterances.

Oh, and that pissed woman in your item got a years probation for computer fraud or similar previously. "Only the best people."

[F5 Dave]

Your kidding he’s a great public speaker it’s just his message that understandable many disagree with.

Yes it’s a bit used car salesman esque with all the superlatives, but Trump understands whose buying his messages. He’s following a core leadership principle KISS keep it simple. Eg when the actual numbers don’t matter it’s fine to say Lots or Little rather than have some jumped up journo detail the message with oh last week you said 168,352 of xyz...

Most of us on this forum are prob well educated and enjoy the nuances of language and showing off some dance long words st times. But the bulk of the population isn’t that bright so best to keep it easy.
I think John key was similar too, keep it short and to point. Now look at Adern with her wild gestures and drawing in ten other factors into every issue that there working towards...

Jesus fucking a homo krist! He is a fuking dreadful speaker. His lies are predictable and he gets lost mid conversation. The only thing that matters to him is to tell you how great he is. Which is fuking useless.

I can't believe you could think he was anything other than a bad joke.


Cue usual Trump defence. . But he was better than ObamClintLincon

[Kickaha]

Video footage from Georgia shows suitcases filled with ballots pulled from under a table AFTER supervisors told poll workers to leave room and 4 people stayed behind to keep counting votes

Do they really https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2020/12/fact-check-video-from-ga-does-not-show-suitcases-filled-with-ballots-pulled-from-under-a-table-after-poll-workers-dismissed.html?fbclid=IwAR1nhvPSk5FtlkywSoduWU0NGu xFfwdTTTMP8NPl8l6mTseY6-9nG7OjYvE


Your kidding he’s a great public speaker

I've watched a lot of his press conferences, he's fucking rubbish

[pritch]

Rudy comments about thousands of affidavits are interesting but basically bollocks, or he would've produced them in court as evidence of fraud on at least one of the forty occasions the Trump shit show has appeared. But that's just leading up to his modest big moment which scores side eye from Jenna Ellis.

Ms Ellis claims expertise in constituional law but it seems she has inflated her CV, she is more used to traffic court and dealng with other minor offences as a rural Deputy DA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xnrKWq-4Dw

[R650R]

Jesus fucking a homo krist! He is a fuking dreadful speaker. His lies are predictable and he gets lost mid conversation. The only thing that matters to him is to tell you how great he is. Which is fuking useless.

I can't believe you could think he was anything other than a bad joke.


Cue usual Trump defence. . But he was better than ObamClintLincon


https://youtu.be/fNQAbF33gFM

[husaberg]

347932..........

[HenryDorsetCase]

I've watched a lot of his press conferences, he's fucking rubbish

Oh, I dunno - its not that far of a conceptual leap from "Ask not what your country can do for you. ask instead what you can do for your country" to "bigly" or "covfefe".

Oh, sorry. Yes it is.

[F5 Dave]

https://youtu.be/fNQAbF33gFM
And you just proved my point by effectively saying "but look over here at this person " as I predicted in the very last line of my post.