Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[sugilite]

Oh look a wall of text. Word count does not actually win debates. Substance does.
I will pick just one such utterance. It was mentioned that trumps met the criteria for being a fascist. You provide a coverall statement with the notion to dismiss said statement, when gently pushed you amend it to "you know kelly said things". Poof - gone is the coverall eh. The rest of the wall is much the same brand and does not merit any further comment from me.
You can indulge in the fantasy that trump is not a criminal when blatantly corrupt judges continue to run cover for him in plain sight. Just don't expect us to indulge in those same fantasies.
Same applies for your notion you still support conservatism. It cannot exist with a fascist wannabe dictator in charge who has been actively undermining democracy with never ending the election was stolen lies and destroying faith in government with lies such as his hurricane aid being blocked - running true conservatives out the party that won't sycophant over him like you do and much more. You are a propagandist for the man, just own it and move on.

[Berries]

Sometimes i wish the same, especially the bit about sending immigrants, both legal and non legal, back to their home countries.
How many generations do you want to go back? It's not like this country wasn't completely built on immigration.

[TheDemonLord]

Oh look a wall of text. Word count does not actually win debates. Substance does.
I will pick just one such utterance. It was mentioned that trumps met the criteria for being a fascist.

I have seen a myriad of people assert Trump as Fascist, but even the world renowned experts who say this (despite previously saying he wasnt) curiously do not reference what specifically about his policies are fascistic.

Especially when a big thrust of his Presidency was to deregulate and devolve power to the states, the very opposite of Fascistic.

The main claim seems to be his wanting to appoint people who are onboard with his agenda - which as far as Fascistic goes is laughable. Getting rid of people who are actively trying to oppose the things that you were voted in to do is entirely reasonable.


You provide a coverall statement with the notion to dismiss said statement, when gently pushed you amend it to "you know kelly said things". Poof - gone is the coverall eh.

Kelly made two claims:

One is Kelly stating his opinion - he is entitled to it, I think he is wrong (see above)
The other is Kelly claiming Trump said certain things - which have been disputed by other people who were there.

Him lying on the latter (and it is not just the disputes from other people who were there, it is this goes contrary to every other interaction when Trump has discussed military matters) casts doubt on the former.


You can indulge in the fantasy that trump is not a criminal when blatantly corrupt judges continue to run cover for him in plain sight. Just don't expect us to indulge in those same fantasies.

I have no comment on the corrupt judge claims - I have not bothered to look into it - but on the Criminal charge - you had a misdemenor, that was outside the statute of limitations, that then in order to upgrade to a felony (and get around said statute of limitations) it was asserted that it was in the commission of a crime - which Crime - well, the Jury could not agree on which Crime it was - but they were absolutely sure he was Guilty.

Just think about that last part for a second - "We know you are guilty, we just cant prove what of" - Does that sound like any form of Justice to you - or does that sound more like political persecution.


Same applies for your notion you still support conservatism. It cannot exist with a fascist wannabe dictator in charge who has been actively undermining democracy with never ending the election was stolen lies and destroying faith in government with lies such as his hurricane aid being blocked

Good thing that Trump is an Individualist who wants to limit the power of the State then, aye. Shrink Government departments, push power back to the States - you know, all those policies that are the polar opposite of Fascism (both historically and technically)

I said earlier in this thread - I am interested to see what the Voting stats are for this election - if they are more in-line with the previous elections (not 2020), will you admit that 2020 was an anomoly - I am not asking you to infere any malice or draw a conclusion about cheating or stolen - just that the voting tallies were unusual - See, I dont think you can say that (if it turns out to be true).


running true conservatives out the party that won't sycophant over him like you do and much more. You are a propagandist for the man, just own it and move on.

Which True Conservatives - the RINOs - the Warhawks? GWB types?

Propagandist - if that means pointing out the wider context of the half-truths that are used to gin up sensationalist headlines that are dishonest - then sure.

[TheDemonLord]

How many generations do you want to go back? It's not like this country wasn't completely built on immigration.

Also an argument that has been made elsewhere:

Aboriginal people in Australia: We want everyone else to go away = Perfectly acceptable
Maori in New Zealand: We want the foreigners to go back home = Fine
Indians in United States: You are all Migrants and we want you gone = Yeah! Decolonization
English in England: We dont want to import terrorists = OMG RAYYYYYYYYCISSSSSTS

The double standard is always amusing.

[Berries]

Aboriginal people in Australia: We want everyone else to go away = Perfectly acceptable
Maori in New Zealand: We want the foreigners to go back home = Fine
Indians in United States: You are all Migrants and we want you gone = Yeah! Decolonization
English in England: We dont want to import terrorists = OMG RAYYYYYYYYCISSSSSTS.

Three of those countries have thousands of years of human settlement, New Zealand doesn't, hence my comment.

[sugilite]

I have no comment on the corrupt judge claims - I have not bothered to look into it
This one is worth quoting - why should we pay any credence whatsoever to walls of rubbish assertions posted by a willingly blind and lazy sycophant.

[pritch]

^Your previous posts in this thread in breathless defense of near all things trump render your comments as essentially being propaganda. You need new material. When ever I have chosen to dig deep into your posts and be relentless at digging for more actual facts from you, your "points" most often evaporate into big nothings - ala your barbershop blues and I'm still waiting for you to show me a larger right wing media organization than fox in the USA. Hint, there is not one.


Now that Trump's transition team is creating lists of appointees some details are becoming public. It was reported months ago that Judge Cannon had been offered a top job: Supreme Court, Attorney General, or similar. Nobody should be surprised. Well apart from surprise at her almost zero judicial experience that is. When the documents case was assigned to her she had a whole fourteen days experience in court.

As for his extremist leanings there were reports that when he was President Trump wanted the Army to shoot civilians. The generals told him that was illegal. He asked could they not shoot people in the legs or something. Then in frustration he called his military staff 'losers'.

A few years ago there was a widely reported news story about a missing soldier. A rather attractive one, the daughter of Mexican immigrants. Eventually she was found in a shallow grave. Trump told the family he would pay for the funeral. When the press asked if he often payed for military funerals he said he did.
When the bill came he raged, "It doesn't cost sixty thousand dollars to bury a fucking Mexican." And he refused to pay the bill. He is all class.

[onearmedbandit]

A few years ago there was a widely reported news story about a missing soldier. A rather attractive one, the daughter of Mexican immigrants. Eventually she was found in a shallow grave. Trump told the family he would pay for the funeral. When the press asked if he often payed for military funerals he said he did.
When the bill came he raged, "It doesn't cost sixty thousand dollars to bury a fucking Mexican." And he refused to pay the bill. He is all class.

Things like this all come down to who you want to believe. I read about that on the Atlantic, there were those who were present who said he never said anything of the type. So we (in this instance and certain others) are left with either believing those who support Trump or those that don't. Point is, neither should be spread as being the truth.

[TheDemonLord]

This one is worth quoting - why should we pay any credence whatsoever to walls of rubbish assertions posted by a willingly blind and lazy sycophant.

Okay - tell you what - I will look into this, with my usual skepticism and see what the furore is. Give me a couple of days - and I will honestly answer whether or not I think the Judge is corrupt or not.

[pritch]

Oh I say, how jolly inconvenient. In the spirit of full disclosure I should point out that Trump's spokeswoman says it's not true, but then she would wouldn't she?


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/23/donald-trump-accuser-stacey-williams-jeffrey-epstein

[husaberg]

Oh I say, how jolly inconvenient. In the spirit of full disclosure I should point out that Trump's spokeswoman says it's not true, but then she would wouldn't she?


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/23/donald-trump-accuser-stacey-williams-jeffrey-epstein

Just like When Key used his assistant to claim he never said he would re enter pike regardless of the costs. despite it being recorded.
Or when Auntie Helen had her assistant claim never never called a angry crowd feral inbreeds. when it was clear to numerous bystanders.

The trump suporters will have a "Katman conspiracy religious zealot" like 0% level burden of proof to even consider their endless lies like with McDonalds are fabrications.
Yet on the flip side require a 101% proof requirement to prove every detail before they accept he "might have" said what was reported, witnessed , recorded shown on film etc.
For instance Hunter Bidens laptop, Obama birth cert, election fraud."
That's not when trump supporters are just resorting to endless whataboutisnmsor just making claims like media biaas. when the media is ran on the most part by their supporters

[Pursang]

....
Sycophantic Apologists Everywhere!
...
355102

[TheDemonLord]

This one is worth quoting - why should we pay any credence whatsoever to walls of rubbish assertions posted by a willingly blind and lazy sycophant.

So, I have looked into this:

The full 93 page decision from the Judge (https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652/gov.uscourts.flsd.648652.672.0_2.pdf)

The Meese Amicus brief - more for reference and interest than nothing else (https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/23/23-939/303456/20240319162315185_Meese%20et%20al%20Amici%20Brief-Trump%20v%20US.pdf)

That is about 100+ pages of legal argument - I shall attempt to summarize as best I understood them:

Historically, Officers (and people wielding Executive power in and on behalf of the US Government) must be appointed by the President or by Congress or by Law.

Officers being someone with greater authority than Officials or general staff members.

A Special Counsel, having limited oversight and wielding executive power meets the definition of an Officer.

The Attorney General can appoint Special Counsels for certain reasons, but these are subject to various criteria. A big section of the opinion is going into all the various criteria and exceptions and then outlining why they do or do not apply.

Much is made of United States vs Nixon - however, in that case neither side contested the Special Counsels legitimacy and the question of the legal means by which the Special Counsel was appointed was never put to the Supreme Court to decide.

So, full Transparency for your Sugi - this seems to be the area where there is the most legal debate

On the opposition side - They are saying that the Supreme Court were happy with what happened in US vs Nixon - therefore this represents the SC giving its assent.
On the ruling - they are saying that because neither side raised the question to the SC, the comment (which the opposition relies heavily on) it cannot be relied on as a decision on a question not asked.

There is a secondary element which is Morrison v. Olson - my understanding here is that this dealt with a Law that dealt with Special Counsels (and other things) went to the Supreme Court, was upheld (but with Justice Scalia dissenting - which is important) - but the law itself was sunset in 1999.

Finally - the Judge looks at the historical record of Special Counsels to see if there is a consistent manner in which they are appointed.

The conclusion is (as I understand it) the following:

- The constitution specifically separated the powers of the Judiciary and the Executive for a good reason. Any merging of those powers needs to have clear Law or clear language from Congress or the President.
- The question of Special Counsels was not asked of the Supreme Court, so any commentary on them is not an answer.
- The previous law that dealt with this has expired
- The functions and powers granted to the Special Counsel make them an Officer
- As such, they need either explicit Law, appointment by Congress or by the President.

Now - for my opinion:

This is absolutely the sort of nit-picking pedantry that fills my British heart with Joy. Reading the entire opinion, There are elements that I think are dubious - the biggest one is the Supreme Court comment in US vs Nixon - I understand the argument here - they are saying that if two parties went to the Supreme Court to decide on what the weather was:

Party A saying it is Blue sky therefore it is Sunny and warm
Party B saying is is Blue sky therefore it is windy and cold

The Supreme court decision saying that the Sky is blue - but the thermometer reading is what is important is not an acknowledgement that the Sky is always Blue - it is saying that because neither party asked the Supreme Court to decide IF the sky is blue, then their statement about the Sky being blue is not a decision.

I, myself, would tend to disagree here - as it points to accepted customs and practices that neither side debated it... However - the Court goes on to acknowledge that the history of Special Counsels is spotty and contradictory and not enough to draw an implied precedent from and even then - because of the constitutional implication(s) over the separation of powers, mere convention is not enough - it needs explicit law or plain words from Congress.

The argument that I find most convincing however - is the closing argument - and I want to quote this section:


[t]he accretion of dangerous power does not come in a day. It does come, however slowly, from the generative force of unchecked disregard of the restrictions that fence in even the most disinterested assertion of authority. Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, 343 U.S. 579, 594 (1952) (Frankfurter, J., concurring)

You asked me to comment on whether she was a corrupt Judge - reading the whole argument, I find that on the Nixon question, I am not convinced on her argument, despite seeing the rationale - but on the other sections, I think she raises a good point - that Government entities have given themselves powers and authority that are not backed by Law, Congress or the President, breaching the separation of powers as described by the Constitution.

On this point, I feel she makes a damn good argument about reigning in Government entities that are acting as feifdoms and laws-unto-themselves (something we have seen a lot of recently).

Is she Corrupt - No, I think that is a massive stretch. I think she raises an interesting Legal question and the majority of her arguments I find to have substantial merit.

On one section I think she reaches a bit, but to put in perspective, I have seen much more egregious over-reaches in other legal decisions - and despite this being a reach, her point that if the SC wants to make a test or a ruling, then they need to be asked the question on that specific matter is valid.

[Berries]

Still dodgy though.

[TheDemonLord]

Still dodgy though.

The only bit I found to be remotely dodgy - as I said, was the opinion on whether the SC decision in US vs Nixon had weight. I think she dismisses too easily - but I find her arguments to be well reasoned, even if I disagree on this point. Everything else I find to be good, legal and constitutional reasons.

The solution though for the above is for this ruling to be appealed and the question be raised to the Supreme Court, so they can apply a ruling and create a test on it.

[TheDemonLord]

Also - this Gem just dropped.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8o6n-AVqMw

Now - obviously, I am a JBP Fan, have been for years, saw him in Auckland - great evening. However, there are many elements in this discussion that go as a direct refutation against some of the claims here. Particularly his Sense of Humour vs being a Fascist Dictator.

[1/32 man]

Particularly his Sense of Humour vs being a Fascist Dictator.

Are you talking about trumpz sense of humour? Good luck with that!

[Kickaha]

Trump may have a good career at McDonalds if he doesn't win the Presidency, according to him he got a crowd of 29,000 at the Maccas he pretended to work at which is pretty impressive for a town with a population of 24,000, I guess a lot of people travelled as we know from TDL he doesn't lie

[TheDemonLord]

Trump may have a good career at McDonalds if he doesn't win the Presidency, according to him he got a crowd of 29,000 at the Maccas he pretended to work at which is pretty impressive for a town with a population of 24,000, I guess a lot of people travelled as we know from TDL he doesn't lie

Here is the town of Wacken, in Germany with a Population of 2025 people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wacken,_Schleswig-Holstein)

So, using Kickaha Maths - The Wacken Open Air festival cannot have 75,000 paying attendees. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wacken_Open_Air)

Maybe... And I am going out on a bit of a limb here... But maybe Trump is popular to the point where people from outside of the town might want to show up.... I mean, I have travelled to Auckland and Wellington to see Bands I like - I know, I know - Crazy Concept....

[R650R]

Trump may have a good career at McDonalds if he doesn't win the Presidency, according to him he got a crowd of 29,000 at the Maccas he pretended to work at which is pretty impressive for a town with a population of 24,000, I guess a lot of people travelled as we know from TDL he doesn't lie

Actually be good business sense to open his own chain. Could you just imagine all the Democrat voters having to drive past Trump Burger every day and seeing his face on all the advertising.

I tell you these are the best burgers I’ve ever tasted. You know I bit into this burger and said to myself this is the greatest burger I’ve ever tasted. Made in America with American beef, not Mexican, they don’t have cows in Mexico they just have that fake beef that minced up spicy stuff.
The only beef Mexico has is with me making them pay for the wall.
Fake beef in Mexico probably what the fake news media eats.
And to keep costs down where going to make it affordable for everyday Americans we’re going to employ all the illegal aliens that Kamala let in.

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBMoPUAeLnY



Oh Shit, it has happened.

Hopefully we will hear Kamala on JRE too.

[Kickaha]

So, using Kickaha Maths - The Wacken Open Air festival cannot have 75,000 paying attendees.

Showing your lack of comprehension as usual, did you miss the bit where I said "I guess a lot of people travelled ? but we both know that's bullshit




Oh Shit, it has happened.

Hopefully we will hear Kamala on JRE too.

Is that the podcast he did with Joe Rogan while he fucked over all his supporters by not turning up for the rally he was meant to be at the time he was meant to be there? did he even turn up at all ? but then he has a history of screwing over his rally goers so nothing new there

[pritch]

Are you talking about trumpz sense of humour? Good luck with that!


There's a thing. Anyone ever see him laugh? And no I don't mean sneer.

[TheDemonLord]

Showing your lack of comprehension as usual, did you miss the bit where I said "I guess a lot of people travelled ? but we both know that's bullshit

Do we? You guess a lot of people travelled... Let's run some maths Here is a video of the crowds (https://www.facebook.com/SeanHannity/videos/crowd-outside-of-mcdonalds-to-see-president-trump-is-absolutely-massive/568711622364052/)

Looks like a mile long strip, mutliple people deep, 1600 metres by 5 metres, with a crowd density of 3 people per square metre - that is 24,000 people (approximatetly) on just one side of the road.


Is that the podcast he did with Joe Rogan while he fucked over all his supporters by not turning up for the rally he was meant to be at the time he was meant to be there? did he even turn up at all ? but then he has a history of screwing over his rally goers so nothing new there

Apparently he was late and apologized.

Still - I am searching for Kamala where she has done a long-form conversation with someone who isn't a mainstream media Journalist - and I can't find it... Curious.

[pritch]

At one point in the Rogan/Trump podcast Trump complained how much some pollsters charge him. Interesting comment. There are reports of shonky pollsters operating currently, this is normal in the period just prior to an election. These show Trump leading. Everybody knows they are not credible but they sway the averages and that is their sole purpose.

The legitimate polls are all over the place. Nate Silver has some credibility as a pollster/commentator. He predicted Harris to win the popular vote. Harris to win the Electoral College. Trump to be President. This is the result of thousands of computer predictions he says. Currently his site has Harris leading Trump 48% to 46.6.

Sadly when Trump is involved it doesn't all end on November fifth.

[TheDemonLord]

At one point in the Rogan/Trump podcast Trump complained how much some pollsters charge him. Interesting comment. There are reports of shonky pollsters operating currently, this is normal in the period just prior to an election. These show Trump leading. Everybody knows they are not credible but they sway the averages and that is their sole purpose.

The legitimate polls are all over the place. Nate Silver has some credibility as a pollster. He predicts Harris to win the popular vote. Harris to win the Electoral College. Trump to be President. This is the result of thousands of computer predictions he says.

Sadly when Trump is involved it doesn't all end on November fifth.

This is the resource that I prefer to use - RealClearPolitics. (https://www.realclearpolling.com/elections/president/2024/battleground-states)

I especially like the ease at which you can compare the historical results

[Pursang]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiyGScJ7iWQ&t=2s

[pritch]

Yeah. Some of the most effective ads are the ones that use his own words. It puts the batshit crazy on display.

[Laava]

There's a thing. Anyone ever see him laugh? And no I don't mean sneer.
I try not to look now. Is like watching a caesarian.

[pritch]

I try not to look now. Is like watching a caesarian.

Yeah I sorta know what you mean. His whining voice pisses me off. I can only handle small doses.

[pritch]

Trump's visit to Madison Square Garden brings to mind the rallies held by Father Coughlan in the 1930s. Twenty thousand attendees, every one a Nazi.

[Pursang]

Trump's visit to Madison Square Garden brings to mind the rallies held by Father Coughlan in the 1930s. Twenty thousand attendees, every one a Nazi.

According to Academics, and TDL, trump is not a Fascist, just an 'Aspirational' one.

He is not officially a Fascist until he actually institutes the extreme authoritarian things he has been promising for years.

Unrestricted by academic doctrine, I tend to agree with General Milley that trump, MAGA and the Heritage Foundation, are all "Fascist to the Core!"

[1/32 man]

I agree chaps.

From a meme I saw recently...

"The only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history"

[R650R]

I suggest those using the F word go beyond the dictionary simple version and have a read on the Wikipedia page. There quite a lot to read but the only thing that comes close in our modern world is the climate change/green movement.
At its core it’s anti communist/socialist but just like those it demands utter allegiance to the state and denies individualism.
Any real authoritarian regime in western society is going to come from a green based govt, one that will dictate your means of travel, when you will travel and exclude you from society if you don’t cooperate with that. And that will come pretty soon if we keep playing the left vs right game and don’t see that both sides are in that game.

[Pursang]

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F1b0dc66 c-8b81-4d70-b1a6-d7a80eb42bfc_1080x1080.png

[TheDemonLord]

Ah yes, Those Fascists were notorious for their appeals to Liberty and individual freedom...

[nerrrd]

I never realised how closely connected Trump was to pro wrestling, that explains a lot in my mind to how he approaches campaigning, and how devoted so many of his supporters are.

Hopefully there's about as much substance behind what he's been saying as there is in your average pro wrestling match.

How bad does politics as a profession have to get before it breaks down all together, I wonder?

[TheDemonLord]

I never realised how closely connected Trump was to pro wrestling, that explains a lot in my mind to how he approaches campaigning, and how devoted so many of his supporters are.

Hopefully there's about as much substance behind what he's been saying as there is in your average pro wrestling match.

How bad does politics as a profession have to get before it breaks down all together, I wonder?

Heh - I remember the Battle of the Billionaires - and the Hair vs Hair stipulation.

His knowledge of Boxing and of MMA as well was pretty impressive - the guy was on-point with a lot of his history.

[Pursang]

Ah yes, Those Fascists were notorious for their appeals to Liberty and individual freedom...

The ONLY liberty & Individual Freedom that trump actually cares about.... IS HIS OWN!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMjhl9jxrug

[TheDemonLord]

The ONLY liberty & Individual Freedom that trump actually cares about.... IS HIS OWN!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMjhl9jxrug

So the video is interesting - the opening line - He talks about removing the Fascists (this is assuming that these quotes are accurate, not attributed, in full and not omitting key context) - Bit of a Bold move for a Fascist to remove Fascists - almost like the video refutes its own premise... :lol::lol:

As for the first part - And by ensuring that his own Liberty and Freedom is protected, he ensures that others Liberty and Freedom is protected.

[pritch]

So the video is interesting - the opening line - He talks about removing the Fascists (this is assuming that these quotes are accurate, not attributed, in full and not omitting key context) - Bit of a Bold move for a Fascist to remove Fascists - almost like the video refutes its own premise... :lol::lol:

As for the first part - And by ensuring that his own Liberty and Freedom is protected, he ensures that others Liberty and Freedom is protected.

You are making a very basic mistake in that you are assuming Trump means what he says.

As for the first part - his own liberty and freedom will have no bearing on anybody else's. He says he wants to lock up half the country.

[Stylo]

Heh - I remember the Battle of the Billionaires - and the Hair vs Hair stipulation.

His knowledge of Boxing and of MMA as well was pretty impressive - the guy was on-point with a lot of his history.

Can you explain plese Demon Lord. What are the rules and guidelines of being a cult follower as so you clearly are.

Is there an inititation process to join your cult ? Do you have to get a 'Donald Trump' tattoo somewhere on your body or, do just have to pay some money and promise that you'll tell anything you hear that is anti common sense and you'll

be as stupid as you already sound, just to confirm you're now a lifetime member of your cult. The Donald, 'Bone Spurs' Gang. You must be proud of the fat weakling.

Keep going, I'm enjoying this. Putin loves you too.

[TheDemonLord]

You are making z very basic mistake in that you are assuming Trump means what he says.

As for the first part - his own liberty and freedom will have no bearing on anybody else's. He says he wants to lock up half the country.

Now what an interesting comment - see, when I point out something that when listened to in context is clearly hyperbole and a joke - I get all manner of Flak, yet when I point out the obvious self-refutung statement - suddenly Trump does not mean what he says.

How many times have you, yourself, Pritch critiqued me for this? Only to pull it out when convenient....

Lock up half the country? I'd like the direct quote that states half the country.

[TheDemonLord]

Can you explain plese Demon Lord. What are the rules and guidelines of being a cult follower as so you clearly are.

Is there an inititation process to join your cult ? Do you have to get a 'Donald Trump' tattoo somewhere on your body or, do just have to pay some money and promise that you'll tell anything you hear that is anti common sense and you'll

be as stupid as you already sound, just to confirm you're now a lifetime member of your cult. The Donald, 'Bone Spurs' Gang. You must be proud of the fat weakling.

Keep going, I'm enjoying this. Putin loves you too.

Methinks you quoted the wrong post.

Ah Putin. Invaded the Donbas under Obama.
Invaded the rest of Ukraine under Biden.

Yet, somehow did nothing whilst Trump was in office and somehow Trump was his puppet...

For one who is accusing others of Cult like thinking, I cannot imagine the mental gymnastics required to make that make sense.

[Pursang]

You are making z very basic mistake in that you are assuming Trump means what he says.

You are making a very basic mistake if you think that trump understands most of what he says.

He continually calls Kamala a Socialist / Communist / Fascist.... he has no idea, they are just trigger words, to get reactions from the MAGAts.

Fascist is definitely a trigger word for TDL.

[Stylo]

Methinks you quoted the wrong post.

Ah Putin. Invaded the Donbas under Obama.
Invaded the rest of Ukraine under Biden.

Yet, somehow did nothing whilst Trump was in office and somehow Trump was his puppet...

For one who is accusing others of Cult like thinking, I cannot imagine the mental gymnastics required to make that make sense.

Putin invaded the Donbas under Obama.

Or, was he above Obama ? You mke no sense. Obama was over a decade ago.

Your cult leader Donald speaks about as much sense as you. Bow down to stupidity my friend. Hitler loves you. Your Donald could'nt care if you were alive or dead.

As long as you keep promoting him, you'll be fine.

[TheDemonLord]

https://youtu.be/I1IsPL3xWSk?si=tr2dDawZRBjpZSFZ

Konstantin with a hilarious take.

[TheDemonLord]

You are making a very basic mistake if you think that trump understands most of what he says.

He continually calls Kamala a Socialist / Communist / Fascist.... he has no idea, they are just trigger words, to get reactions from the MAGAts.

Fascist is definitely a trigger word for TDL.

Yes, all the Fascists were Marxists first, China is an objectively Fascist state, under the Guise of being Communist.

But don't worry, next time Trump says something you are aghast at, I'll simply quote this and Pritch ad nauseum

[TheDemonLord]

Putin invaded the Donbas under Obama.

Or, was he above Obama ? You mke no sense. Obama was over a decade ago.

Your cult leader Donald speaks about as much sense as you. Bow down to stupidity my friend. Hitler loves you. Your Donald could'nt care if you were alive or dead.

As long as you keep promoting him, you'll be fine.

I'm sorry I presumed a degree of historical literacy. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas)

[Laava]

https://youtu.be/YY_8WzcHqMQ
https://youtu.be/YY_8WzcHqMQ (https://youtu.be/YY_8WzcHqMQ)

[sugilite]

A 965 word wall


Here is my 133 word response.
Canon threw out the case on the grounds of special councils are not a legally appointed thing. This has been tried 3 times already. All failed
Robert Mueller - 2017-2019
Ken Starr - 1994-1999
Lawrence Walsh - 1986-1992
In her brief, Canon quoted the massively compromised and corrupt thomas who essentially gave a "shout out" to her in comments in an unrelated case.
https://www.newsweek.com/clarence-thomas-wrote-note-intended-aileen-cannon-glenn-kirschner-1927980
canon dismissed this case on the very date of the commencement of the big RNC convention. that stinks to high heaven.

The 11th circuit appeals court will reinstate the charges in a rebuke to canon (again) for her lack of ability when it comes to applying law - this time with no case presidents in sight.

canon has proven herself a trump stooge and is corrupt as fuck.

[sugilite]

The legitimate polls are all over the place.
Every single poll that involves trump has been horrendously wrong in every election since 2016, including all the mid term ones. The problem is they have been wrong in both directions. I'm just going to wait and see.

[TheDemonLord]

Here is my 133 word response.
Canon threw out the case on the grounds of special councils are not a legally appointed thing. This has been tried 3 times already. All failed
Robert Mueller - 2017-2019
Ken Starr - 1994-1999
Lawrence Walsh - 1986-1992
In her brief, Canon quoted the massively compromised and corrupt thomas who essentially gave a "shout out" to her in comments in an unrelated case.
https://www.newsweek.com/clarence-thomas-wrote-note-intended-aileen-cannon-glenn-kirschner-1927980
canon dismissed this case on the very date of the commencement of the big RNC convention. that stinks to high heaven.

The 11th circuit appeals court will reinstate the charges in a rebuke to canon (again) for her lack of ability when it comes to applying law - this time with no case presidents in sight.

canon has proven herself a trump stooge and is corrupt as fuck.

Two of those (Ken Starr and Lawrence Walsh) were covered by the sunsetted law that no longer exists, since they were covered by a Law, they are not relevant to the discussion.

I would have to look into Mueller.

I know you think Clarence Thomas is corrupt - but the man has been pretty consistent on his constitutional views over 30 years. Whilst I agree the higher court will likely rule against it, the ultimate conclusion is that this goes to the Supreme Court to rule on the matter of Special Counsels - as was Canons point in her argument.

Bearing in mind - when I read the legal discussion around her decision (from both Left and Right wing judges) none of them said she was Corrupt. The most pointed criticism was that dismissing a key part of the Nixon case. An argument, that you will note, I had a lot of sympathy for.

[pritch]

Every single poll that involves trump has been horrendously wrong in every election since 2016, including all the mid term ones. The problem is they have been wrong in both directions. I'm just going to wait and see.

I'm just beginning to permit myself to be a tad optimistic. The Republicans have no "ground game" this time because all the money raised went to Trump's campaign. In the swing sates and elsewhere they have, minimal advertising, very few door knockers, people arranging transport to the polls, or any of the other jobs that party staff would usually organise.

Behemoth "Dump the Trump" beers will be on hand for the night of the election. Champagne will be available if Harris eventually wins.

[Grumph]

Many reports are saying that the anti Puerto Rican comments at the MSG rally may be enough to turn Pennsylvania against Trump.

Very large PR community in that state. And as a swing state saying what was said may have been a very bad mistake.

[sugilite]

I'm just beginning to permit myself to be a tad optimistic. The Republicans have no "ground game" this time because all the money raised went to Trump's campaign. In the swing sates and elsewhere they have, minimal advertising, very few door knockers, people arranging transport to the polls, or any of the other jobs that party staff would usually organise.

I saw a report that repub voters are early voting in record numbers never seen before. I'm sure shit stain trump won't have any issues with those mail in ballots.





I know you think Clarence Thomas is corrupt - but the man has been pretty consistent on his constitutional views over 30 years. Whilst I agree the higher court will likely rule against it, the ultimate conclusion is that this goes to the Supreme Court to rule on the matter of Special Counsels - as was Canons point in her argument.

The man has received many times his yearly salary in travel gifts, mothers houses purchased, very expensive college educations paid for, and that's just what we know. The only reason he has not been booted is because they basically have no standards to adhere to. Which is mind boggling in itself. So with this blatant corruption on full display, how much do you think I give a fuck how the assholes voting has been consistent? Would you say the same thing if an abjectly corrupt dem judge was found taking the massive bribes that thomas has? "Oh that judge has been a consistent voter - so all good" I think not.

[F5 Dave]

I'm just beginning to permit myself to be a tad optimistic. The Republicans have no "ground game" this time because all the money raised went to Trump's campaign. In the swing sates and elsewhere they have, minimal advertising, very few door knockers, people arranging transport to the polls, or any of the other jobs that party staff would usually organise.

Behemoth "Dump the Trump" beers will be on hand for the night of the election. Champagne will be available if Harris eventually wins.
I've ordered some on a whim. :drinknsin

[TheDemonLord]

The man has received many times his yearly salary in travel gifts, mothers houses purchased, very expensive college educations paid for, and that's just what we know. The only reason he has not been booted is because they basically have no standards to adhere to. Which is mind boggling in itself. So with this blatant corruption on full display, how much do you think I give a fuck how the assholes voting has been consistent? Would you say the same thing if an abjectly corrupt dem judge was found taking the massive bribes that thomas has? "Oh that judge has been a consistent voter - so all good" I think not.

Imagine for a second, that suddenly I got paid by Trump or the Trump campaign: Knowing my previous opinions on the Man, if I continued to espouse the exact same opinions - would you say I am corrupt?

You abjectly corrupt Dem Judge - therein lies the problem - Clarence Thomas has been really consistent on matters of the Constitution for over 30 years. If there is Abject Corruption - show me a case where Thomas ruled against the constitution.

[pritch]

I've ordered some on a whim. :drinknsin

Their last American election effort was a nice drop. Expensive though as it introduced me to craft beers. Mostly I get craft cans from Beer Hug for about $6.50 a can incl courier, although these were a bit more expensive.

The ongoing fallout from The Madison Square Garden rally is mildly amusing. It may have been that Trump was tone deaf but I think it more likely the choice of venue was deliberate. There were huge pro NAZI rallies at Madison Square Garden in the 1930s and it should have been obvious that comparisons would be made. The general tenor of the speeches fit the occasion though. The Trump Campaign are now concerned at the fall out from the garbage island joke. They have claimed they didn't know the comment was coming. Highly unlikely. The comedian's script had been checked. It had included a "joke" about Kamala Harris referring to her by the c word. He was told not to use that.

[pritch]

The Trump Campaign has filed a legal action against Bucks County in Pennsylvania alleging election fraud. The election is still a week away and they don't start counting votes in Pennsylvania until then.

Where do they find these idiot lawyers? Surely these people know what happened to Ellis, Powell, Clark, Eastman, Chesebro, the now broke Giuliani, and the others.

[TheDemonLord]

The ongoing fallout from The Madison Square Garden rally is mildly amusing. It may have been that Trump was tone deaf but I think it more likely the choice of venue was deliberate. There were huge pro NAZI rallies at Madison Square Garden in the 1930s and it should have been obvious that comparisons would be made.

And people say I reach...

The MSG of today is *not* the same MSG of the 1930s.

And maybe - they used the MSG for the following reasons:

- It is a famous New York venue
- It has hosted many Political campaigns (Both DNC and GOP)
- Trump is a big Wrestling, Boxing and MMA fan - and the MSG has a long and storied history with WWE and Boxing

[Pursang]

......Knowing my previous opinions on the Man, if I continued to espouse the exact same opinions - would you say I am corrupt?.

Your Overwhelming Fantasy of someone creating a Libertarian Wonderland does appear to have corrupted your Moral, Legal and Financial common sense.

For you, there is Nothing that trump and his cronies have done, said, proposed or threatened that you consider is disqualifying for their assuming 'control' of the USA.

Examples: Sexual assault, Business fraud, restricting medical services for women, tariff war is not great but OK, using the Presidential role for personal financial gain, Stealing Top Secret documents: All OK with you!

This very much says as much about you, as it does about them!

[TheDemonLord]

Your Overwhelming Fantasy of someone creating a Libertarian Wonderland does appear to have corrupted your Moral, Legal and Financial common sense.

For you, there is Nothing that trump and his cronies have done, said, proposed or threatened that you consider is disqualifying for their assuming 'control' of the USA.

Examples: Sexual assault, Business fraud, restricting medical services for women, tariff war is not great but OK, using the Presidential role for personal financial gain, Stealing Top Secret documents: All OK with you!

This very much says as much about you, as it does about them!

Your argument is predicated on all of those being true.

Sexual Assault - There is a reason why this was Civil - because the evidence was laughable. I will give you one Example - we have Stormy Daniels in 2018 talking with Bill Maher (Notorious Trump supporter...) saying emphatically how it was consensual, not assault etc. Then later on, she changes her tune. Just like all the others who were darlings and fans of Trump, right up until he ran for President.

Business Fraud - This one gets bandied around a lot - with people claiming any lawsuit is proof of Fraud. At a certain level of Business, if you are not being Sued - you are not doing anything. All I see here is typical of large corporates. If you want to say that it is still bad - fair enough, I can agree with that - but to make it out to be some form of character flaw or failing when it is the accepted way of doing things is a stretch.

Restricting Medical Services for Women - Nope. Trump did no such thing. The Supreme Court repealed a bad legal decision (Roe vs Wade) and returned the issue to the individual States. If Congress wanted to settle this, they could add an Amendment to the Constitution.

Tariffs - I dont like Tariffs per se, but in the case of countries operating quasi-slave labour, adding them to offset the those issues is acceptable.

Presidential role for personal gain - Trump lost money by being President. On the flipside, you have the likes of Nancy Pelosi...

Stealing Top Secret Documents - Again, this is a world away from the Truth. If I tell you i have what I believe to be unclassified documents in my possession and then under your advise, I put additional locks on them - how on earth is that Stealing - and that is before we get to the ruling for Biden - which is Innocent mistakes should not be punished....


There are things one can criticize Trump fairly on - I conceded that his explanation of Tariffs and who pays them is incorrect (although his follow-on point that it will encourage the use of internally produced goods - is correct).

Let me ask you in return:

Biden, Obama, GW Bush, Clinton - all Presidents in my lifetime.

Clinton: I did not have sexual relations with that Woman - According to your moral standards - no better than Trump: Is Bill Clinton not fit to be President in your estimation

GW Bush: The Iraq War - I do not weap for the removal of Saddam (even if it was a mighty failure) but the whole Weapons of Mass Destruction lie, which even as a Teenager I knew was a lie - Starting a 20 year war on a Lie - Is GW Bush not fit to be President in your estimation

Obama: King of the Drone Strikes, War in Syria - a man who should have united the country around Racial issues with an uplifting message of we truly can be anything we want to be, instead divided the country and created the situation in which Trump rose to prominence - Is Obama not fit to be President in your estimation

Biden: Massive Inflation, Terrible foreign policy, withdrawal from Afghanistan failure, Military ineptitude that created the conditions to embolden the likes of Russia and Hamas and whose Iran policy has been funding Terrorism - Is Biden not fit to be President in your estimation.

I am willing to bet that for all the ones listed - you will find some reason or another why they are fit to be President but you would not extend the same courtesy to Trump.

And thus I come to my point: It is a mere red herring - you dont like the Man and dont want him to President (fair enough) and so will cling to any excuse to try and delegitimize him.

[Berries]

Are we there yet?

[jim.cox]

Are we there yet?

Just six more sleeps
They are done
We are relieved
And the US is f*cked

[R650R]

Just six more sleeps
They are done
We are relieved
And the US is f*cked

Oh the passage of time…. As Kamala said
"The governor and I, we were all doing a tour of the library here and talking about the significance of the passage of time, right, the significance of the passage of time. So, when you think about it, there is great significance to the passage of time in terms of what we need to do to lay these wires. what we need to do to create these jobs. And there is such great significance to the passage of time when we think about a day in the life of our children."

[sugilite]

a mere parapet of text, you ok mate?

Just the fact corrupt Thomas has been accepting bribes from the nazi memorabilia collecting billionaire crow then ruling on cases that affect the man's bottom line would be abject corruption in most people's book.

Funny you should mention being paid by trump as with your high tolerance for corruption you would surely be regarded as a highly valued asset.

Now if I was put in charge of structuring the supreme court, this is what I would do. I would have the dem and maga parties nominate 7 judges each, then have a backup list of a few more (think list mp's style). Pay them 5 million each annually so the poor dears don't have to take bribes. (may seem high, but waaay less than 1 fighter jet)

Have a STRICT code of ethics, if they put a fucking toenail over the line they are gone, no future benifits and instantly replaced by next judge on the list.

If they have a hung decision, the current sitting president has the deciding vote, yes even if that president was orange vomit bucket.

I'm putting in 7 each side hoping at least 1 or 2 per side will do the right thing rather than the tribe before truth bullshit.

Imo a sugi sorted scotus looks waaay better than the pile of shit currently in place.

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

[pritch]

Just six more sleeps
They are done
We are relieved
And the US is f*cked

Sadly not. The winner doesn't take office until 20/01/25. If Harris wins Trump will be crying and doing his stochastic terrorism thing until the 20th and beyond.

Hopefully Trump's new legal action in Pennsylvania is an indication that he knows he is losing.

[pritch]

Now if I was put in charge of structuring the supreme court, this is what I would do. I would have the dem and maga parties nominate 7 judges each,


The reason there are nine Justices is because at the time that number was chosen there were nine federal appeals districts. - one each. The population is bigger now and there are thirteen appeals districts. Currently some Justices oversee more than one district. If consistency was taken into account there would now be thirteen Justices.

Another change sought by some is term limits. Leaving the Justices there until they are senile doesn't seem smart but...

[sugilite]

Another change sought by some is term limits. Leaving the Justices there until they are senile doesn't seem smart but...
Cheers for the info Pritch. I'm not concerned about term limits, as long as they are doing a good job, they can stay as long as they like in my book.



Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

[TheDemonLord]

Just the fact corrupt Thomas has been accepting bribes from the nazi memorabilia collecting billionaire crow then ruling on cases that affect the man's bottom line would be abject corruption in most people's book.

Did you know that Lemmy, from Motorhead - was famous for his collecting of Nazi Memorabilia.

Plenty of people with a WW2 interest collect Axis interest without any love of the ideaology.

The last part though is key - can you find rulings that go against the constitution that affect said bottom line?

And let me expand on that last part - I put it to you that Clarence reverting back to the constitution is undoing the corruption that has taken place over the last ~70 years.


Now if I was put in charge of structuring the supreme court, this is what I would do. I would have the dem and maga parties nominate 7 judges each, then have a backup list of a few more (think list mp's style). Pay them 5 million each annually so the poor dears don't have to take bribes. (may seem high, but waaay less than 1 fighter jet)

Have a STRICT code of ethics, if they put a fucking toenail over the line they are gone, no future benifits and instantly replaced by next judge on the list.

If they have a hung decision, the current sitting president has the deciding vote, yes even if that president was orange vomit bucket.

I'm putting in 7 each side hoping at least 1 or 2 per side will do the right thing rather than the tribe before truth bullshit.

Imo a sugi sorted scotus looks waaay better than the pile of shit currently in place.

Interesting idea - but an equal 7 vs 7 and having the president as the Tie breaker would go against the conceptual separation of powers in the US (President is the Executive, SC is the Judiciary).

However, here is my counter - a big part of the failings of the US, is - IMO - Congress failing to do its job properly. Both sides submit Amendments that only benefit their side - and so they fail.

The issue is not the Supreme Court. The issue is Congress trying to side-step the deliberate roadblocks to federal overeach when it is conveinient. Instead of properly seeking to amend the constitution when there is a need for additional federal changes.

Take for example the FBI - now, this is no shade against the FBI, but from a constitutional point of view - should not exist. Yes, they do have a Mandate via the USC - but my point is, as a Federal entity, they should draw their power from the Constitution. And yes, that goes for just about every federal agency that seeks to have any for of executive power over the individual (EPA, ATF, IRS etc. etc.)

And so, whilst I like some elements of your idea - ultimately it does not matter if you had 7v7 or 700v700 - the issue is the usage of the Supreme court by both sides to 'Get their own way' - when they cannot do it via either legislation or constitutional amendment.

What I would like to see - is the ability for the Supreme Court to push an issue back to Congress to legislate on it: e.g. 'This issue is not clear - so re-write the law and pass it' rather than making a decision on the existing legislation that is half-assed.

As an aside - something I think that is of interest, not so much the first half - but the last half, listen to how Joe talks about what the left *used* to be - I saw a different video of Ana Kasparian, of The Young Turks fame talking about how she is leaving the Democrat party - Does the points sound familiar:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aT2grMe1I4

[Laava]

Just six more sleeps
They are done
We are relieved
And the US is f*cked
If they vote that fat orange cunt in they fucken well deserve him!

[F5 Dave]

Just the fact corrupt Thomas has been accepting bribes from the nazi memorabilia collecting billionaire crow then ruling on cases that affect the man's bottom line would be abject corruption in most people's book.

Funny you should mention being paid by trump as with your high tolerance for corruption you would surely be regarded as a highly valued asset.

Now if I was put in charge of structuring the supreme court, this is what I would do. I would have the dem and maga parties nominate 7 judges each, then have a backup list of a few more (think list mp's style). Pay them 5 million each annually so the poor dears don't have to take bribes. (may seem high, but waaay less than 1 fighter jet)

Have a STRICT code of ethics, if they put a fucking toenail over the line they are gone, no future benifits and instantly replaced by next judge on the list.

If they have a hung decision, the current sitting president has the deciding vote, yes even if that president was orange vomit bucket.

I'm putting in 7 each side hoping at least 1 or 2 per side will do the right thing rather than the tribe before truth bullshit.

Imo a sugi sorted scotus looks waaay better than the pile of shit currently in place.

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

Well I'd vote for you if that was a thing.

[husaberg]

If they vote that fat orange cunt in they fucken well deserve him!
Over half of the Democratic Party’s voters in 2022 51% held college degrees.
Whilst the majority of Republican voters in 2022 had no college degree (63%)
White voters without college degrees made up a majority (54%) of Republican voters in 2022, compared with 27% of Democratic voters.


Well I'd vote for you if that was a thing.

Start a poll

[Kb2020dope]

Hey team,

I have noticed a lot of anger on this thread over the last couple of days. I believe this is due to many of you left wing faithful are starting to realise the United States of America has common sense. In 6 days Trump will begin to make America great again.

I can't vote in this election and neither can the majority of people on this thread. Therefore we should not take the result to seriously and we certainly can't control it.

Let's see what happens in 6 days and then potentially take a stronger focus on our own politics and more importantly life in the fast lane!

Ngā Mihi

[R650R]

ABC news “accidently” are election results for Pennsylvania today during coverage of a car race. Apparently they were just “testing” the system, it showed Harris 52% vs trump 47%…

Whoever wins is immaterial, what really matters is in weeks time impoverished stand up comedians will have fresh material to go on tour with. Make comedy great again

[pete376403]

Over half of the Democratic Party’s voters in 2022 51% held college degrees.
Whilst the majority of Republican voters in 2022 had no college degree (63%)
White voters without college degrees made up a majority (54%) of Republican voters in 2022, compared with 27% of Democratic voters.



Start a poll

why would anyone want to live in shithole Republican-run states?

According to CNBC,
10 worst states to live and work: 1. Texas. 2. Oklahoma. 3. Louisiana. 4. (tie) South Carolina. 4. Alabama. 6. Missouri. 7. Indiana. 8. Tennessee. 9. Arkansas. 10. Florida.

According to USAbynumbers,
10 states with lowest quality of life: 1. Louisiana. 2. Alabama. 3. Mississippi. 4. West Virginia. 5. New Mexico. 6. Arkansas. 7. Alaska. 8. Oklahoma. 9. South Carolina. 10. Pennsylvania.

According to World Population Review,
10 states with lowest GDP per capita: 1. Mississippi. 2. West Virginia. 3. Arkansas. 4. Idaho. 5. Alabama. 6. Montana. 7. South Carolina. 8. Oklahoma. 9. Kentucky. 10. New Mexico.

10 states with lowest median household income: 1. Mississippi. 2. West Virginia. 3. Arkansas. 4. New Mexico. 5. Alabama. 6. Kentucky. 7. Louisiana. 8. Oklahoma. 9. South Carolina. 10. Montana.

According to Business Insider,
10 states with the worst state conomy: 1. Alaska. 2. Louisiana. 3. New Mexico. 4. South Dakota. 5, Kentucky. 6. Mississippi. 7. West Virginia. 8. Kansas. 9. Arkansas. 10. Tennessee.

According to WalletHub,
10 most federally dependent states: 1. Alaska. 2. New Mexico. 3. Kentucky. 4. West Virginia. 5. Mississippi. 6. North Dakota. 7. Louisiana. 8. Montana. 9. South Carolina. 10. Arizona.

According to SecuritySales.com,
10 most dangerous states: 1. Louisiana. 2. Mississippi. 3. Arkansas. 4. Texas. 5. Alabama. 6. Oklahoma. 7. Florida. 8. Missouri. 9. South Carolina. 10. Tennessee.

According to World Population Review,
10 states with most gun deaths per capita: 1. Mississippi. 2. Louisiana. 3. New Mexico. 4. Alabama. 5. Wyoming. 6. Alaska. 7. Montana. 8. Missouri. 9. Tennessee. 10. South Carolina.

According to AmericanaddictionCenter,
10 states with highest overdose death per 100,000: 1. West Virginia. 2. Tennessee. 3. Louisiana. 4. Kentucky. 5. Delaware. 6. New Mexico. 7. Ohio. 8. Maine. 9. Pennsylvania. 10. Indiana.

According to Newsweek,
10 least educated states: 1. West Virginia. 2. Mississippi. 3. Louisiana. 4. Arkansas. 5. Kentucky. 6. Nevada. 7. Alabama. 8. Oklahoma. 9. Texas. 10. Tennessee.

According to Scholaroo,
10 States with worst school system: 1. Arizona. 2. Louisiana. 3. Nevada. 4. New Mexico. 5. Alabama. 6. South Carolina. 7. Oklahoma. 8. North Carolina. 9. Florida. 10. Tennessee.

According to World Population Review,
10 unhealthiest states: 1. West Virginia. 2. Mississippi. 3. Kentucky. 4. Alabama. 5. Arkansas. 6. Tennessee. 7. Louisiana. 8. Oklahoma. 9. South Carolina. 10. Ohio.

According to US News and World Report,
10 States with worst healthcare system: 1. Mississippi. 2. Oklahoma. 3. West Virginia. 4. Arkansas. 5. Louisiana. 6. Missouri. 7. Alabama. 8. South Dakota. 9. Tennessee. 10. Indiana.

According to World Population Review,
10 states with shortest life expectancy: 1. Mississippi. 2. West Virginia. 3. Louisiana. 4. Alabama. 5. Kentucky. 6. Tennessee. 7. Arkansas. 8. Oklahoma. 9. New Mexico. 10. South Carolina.

According to WalletHub.com.,
10 worst states to raise a family: 1. Mississippi. 2. New Mexico. 3. West Virginia. 4. Louisiana. 5. South Carolina. 6. Alabama. 7. Arkansas. 8. Oklahoma. 9. Georgia. 10. Arizona.

10 worst states to have a baby: 1. Mississippi. 2. Alabama. 3. South Carolina. 4. Louisiana. 5. West Virginia. 6. Georgia. 7. Arkansas. 8. Oklahoma. 9. Nevada. 10. Florida.

10 worst states for women: 1. Oklahoma. 2. Louisiana. 3. Mississippi. 4. Alabama. 5. Texas. 6. Arkansas. 7. West Virginia. 8. Wyoming. 9. Georgia. 10. Missouri.

According to World Population Review,
10 unhappiest states: 1. West Virginia. 2. Louisiana. 3. Arkansas. 4. Kentucky. 5. Alabama. 6. Mississippi. 7. Oklahoma. 8. Tennessee. 9. New Mexico. 10. Missouri.

[1/32 man]

and still those dumb %^&* vote for teerump

[Berries]

why would anyone want to live in shithole Republican-run states?
Would be a cool road trip though.

[TheDemonLord]

and still those dumb %^&* vote for teerump

"It's better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven"

Being 'poor' but free to live your life as you see fit is better than the alternative.

The one Stat I find curious that Pete omitted - is the internal migration stats from Blue states to Red States.

Almost like people value freedom....

[sugilite]

a wall of text


Good point on president being a no go due to seperation of powers, so I will amend that to the winning side gets an 8th justice.

Your send more back to Congress idea is just wishful thinking, they are simply to disfunctional for that to work. The last 2 years has been the least productive in history.

I had to laugh in regards to your Joe Rogan video recommendation as from 2.20 to 2.50 he is describing exactly YOU! Just in these latest posts you are giving a clearly corrupt bribe taking right wing supreme Court justice a free pass because you like the way he votes, show me to the video in an effort to point out how much the left has changed from the hippy days while hileriously ignoring trump has exterminated the gop in 7 short years. I have seen some post in here most people in a cult have no idea they are in a cult and you have made me a believer in this theory!

That is the first time I have watched a Joe Rogan clip and I like what he had to say, and don't disagree with his words regarding the changes in the left. However at this point they are definitely for me by far the lesser of 2 evils.

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

[sugilite]

The blue to red state migration is actually the great replacement theory being put into action by marxists. While the good ole boys are playing with their pistols in the bayous the marxists will be using their pistols by impregnating both the maga and their own woman. In a few short years the magas will be begging for the end of the electoral college!

Shout out to F5 Dave for the endorsement even though I would make a horrible politician lol

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

[Grumph]

Would be a cool road trip though.

Your chances of surviving it I'd rate as slim to nil.

Unaccompanied,unarmed foreigner in most of those states equals target.

Friend of mine was living in Ohio at 9/11. Had to do an interstate road trip to collect a bike he'd bought on Craigslist.
Stopped a couple of times by local VFW armed militia on his way home. Lucky he is white and good'ol boy fat.
Still says it was the scariest thing he's ever done. Won't go back.

[TheDemonLord]

Good point on president being a no go due to seperation of powers, so I will amend that to the winning side gets an 8th justice.

Your send more back to Congress idea is just wishful thinking, they are simply to disfunctional for that to work. The last 2 years has been the least productive in history.

So, I agree - and then the follow-up: Why is Congress dysfunctional? One could make the argument that it is because of Political Parties (George Washington prescient as ever).

However, I think there is a deeper fundamental issue - which I will address further below.


Just in these latest posts you are giving a clearly corrupt bribe taking right wing supreme Court justice a free pass because you like the way he votes

(apologies for splitting this out - but it felt better to address it this way)

It is not merely that I like the way he votes, it is that I cannot see any influence upon his positions (legal or otherwise) that have been shifted due to an influx of Cash.

In order for the claim of corruption to stick - I need to see an instance where he votes against the constitution in favor of someone that has given him money. In 30 plus years plus, a single instance of this is not a high bar or threshold.

If, in 30 years, you cannot give such an instance where he voted against the constitution in favor of his doners, then that (in-of-itself) is a pretty solid basis for saying he is not corrupt.


I had to laugh in regards to your Joe Rogan video recommendation as from 2.20 to 2.50 he is describing exactly YOU! show me to the video in an effort to point out how much the left has changed from the hippy days while hileriously ignoring trump has exterminated the gop in 7 short years. I have seen some post in here most people in a cult have no idea they are in a cult and you have made me a believer in this theory!

That is the first time I have watched a Joe Rogan clip and I like what he had to say, and don't disagree with his words regarding the changes in the left. However at this point they are definitely for me by far the lesser of 2 evils.

See, I like Joe - there are many issues I disagree with him on (such as UBI) but even on issues I disagree with him on, I find his discussions and the way he entertains ideas to be interesting. I also find the continued attempts to portray him as some extreme right winger to be hilarious.

So let me be charitable to a degree - you have a point in the first part of your comment.

Yes, I am guilty of that to a degree - but the to a degree part is exceedingly important.

You know that I am libertarian to the core. I, in the nicest and most respectful way, do not care how you or anyone else chooses to live their lives. I simply want you (and everyone else) to live their lives as best as they see fit, to live long and prosperous (by whatever means or metric they deem prosperity to be).

And in return, I want to be left alone to live my life. To enjoy my hobbies in the manner that I see fit.

Therein lies the issue. There is a group of people that are opposed to this - I am going eschew labels because I think it muddies the water - they believe that they could craft the perfect society if everyone just lived the way that they think people ought to live. They see that any percieved inequity is proof of a grand conspiracy - and as such requires complete and total tyranny to correct.

I am fundamentally opposed to that idea.

So when you say I am guilty of it - Yes, I am guilty of being in a distinct and fundamental disagreement on this point. I do not want to live how they wish me to live.

I am happy to let them live how they want to live, but that is not good enough for them. They use to gifts of liberalism (Free Speech, individual rights etc.) as a Trojan horse to try and force others to live as they see fit.

There was a battle cry, from GamerGate, that rings true at this point:


We just wanted to play Video Games

And so we are at an Impasse. How we solve this - I mean there is a very simple solution - force the people that think they know best to live under the system they believe will work and let it play out - and do it for every generation so that the lesson is never forgotten.

There are two outcomes here - either it ends in total disaster like it always does and the lesson is learned in pain and suffering or perhaps one day they make it work - and wouldnt that be lovely.

In short - I am only in a Tribe because each time I try to ignore Politics to live my life as I see fit, Politics has a nasty habit of interferring with my Life, fucking it up and making it worse.

I am going to end on this point: I would love sincerely and dearly - more than just about anything else on this world - to ignore Politics entirely. To have a Government that respected my rights and freedoms, enforces the laws pertaining to natural rights and stopped social engineering.

[pritch]

why would anyone want to live in shithole Republican-run states?



A while back I bought a book explaining this. The people in the most shithole states keep voting for the politicians who presided over their misfortune. It's all done by fear. They are coming for your guns, the county is being over run by illegal immigrants, it's ANTIFA, your kid can go to school a boy and come home a girl without your consent, they're brainwashing your kid with CRT, sharia law is coming, they're killing babies after they are born, and on and on and on. It's all bullshit of course.

They are constantly told that the USA is the richest country on earth but they have poverty only rarely seen elsewhere in developed countries. They are told about how free they are with the biggest prison population on earth. Actually the USA is not top 10 in freedom. NZ rates higher.

Republicans regularly refer to the high crime in the big cities but violent crime per head is actually higher in the shit hole states. Louisiana is top from memory but you'll still hear Senator Kennedy banging on about New York or Chicago 'cause his audience wants to believe that.

It is dangerous, it's predicted that by 2030 70% of the Senate will be elected by 30% of the population. It's not that the 30% know nothing, it's that what they believe is largely fantasy.

[R650R]

If we go by same metrics why would anyone in NZ want to live outside of the greater Auckland region? Auckland hands down must have highest earnings greater access to other resources and is ranked one of best cities in world.

There’s more to life than money, some people are happy doing what they are doing.

[jim.cox]

Don't know about you guys, but I find Trump's Rubbish Truck photo-op laughable.

Any real-world worker knows you don't trust anyone who turns up on site in brand-new dayglo vest; with a clean shirt; and shiny shoes not boots. He's wearing a tie and uses cuff-links FFS

Just more evidence he's a bullshitter, not a worker

[Berries]

Your chances of surviving it I'd rate as slim to nil.

Unaccompanied,unarmed foreigner in most of those states equals target.
Nah, I don't buy into that kind of scaremongering. The hospital in my home town was once known for treating more gun shot injuries than anywhere in Europe but as long as you kept out of the rough areas it was fine. Same all over the world.

Have always said I need to go to Albuquerque, no idea why, have only heard of it from the Convoy film, but it is a waypoint on a tentative overland trip from Houston to San Francisco next year.

[Pursang]

Have always said I need to go to Albuquerque, no idea why, have only heard of it from the Convoy film, but it is a waypoint on a tentative overland trip from Houston to San Francisco next year.

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_thumb/FTUnQW1WYAAvvbg.jpg

An political analogy for US rural areas?

[TheDemonLord]

Don't know about you guys, but I find Trump's Rubbish Truck photo-op laughable.

Any real-world worker knows you don't trust anyone who turns up on site in brand-new dayglo vest; with a clean shirt; and shiny shoes not boots. He's wearing a tie and uses cuff-links FFS

Just more evidence he's a bullshitter, not a worker

Sure - but just one question: Do you think Middle Class Kamala would stoop so low...

[jim.cox]

Sure - but just one question: Do you think Middle Class Kamala would stoop so low...

Probably do a better job than the Maga crowd who have swapped ear bandages to wearing safety vests for Trump's latest rally

Some of whom are so fricking thick they dont even know how to put one on...

355116

[pritch]

And the grift goes on. Trump is suing CBS for ten billion over their Harris interview. Only ten billion? At least he has found a judge he appointed but even so...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-sues-cbs-news-60-minutes-interview/

[TheDemonLord]

Was speaking to one of the Gym regulars today - they are fresh back from California (a heavily Democrat state) - and what was interesting was that they said this:

I have never seen so many Trump supporters ever

(and then began to articulare how this was different from the previous times he had visited the states)

[jim.cox]

Was speaking to one of the Gym regulars today - they are fresh back from California (a heavily Democrat state) - and what was interesting was that they said this:
I have never seen so many Trump supporters ever


"Aint No Limit To Dumb" as they say on the Internerd :)

[Dean]

Looking forward to next Wednesday - let’s hope it is a fair election.

You can bet I will be celebrating for Trumps victory.

Keeping Trump in my prayers for this election.

https://youtu.be/-KoXt9pZLGM?si=gTf2ioa_nR5l_G1l

[husaberg]

And the grift goes on. Trump is suing CBS for ten billion over their Harris interview. Only ten billion? At least he has found a judge he appointed but even so...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-sues-cbs-news-60-minutes-interview/

You really have to laugh.

The suit calls for a jury trial and $10 billion in damages, claiming CBS’s action violates the Lone Star State’s prohibition of deceptive acts in the conduct of business.

[Dean]

Was speaking to one of the Gym regulars today - they are fresh back from California (a heavily Democrat state) - and what was interesting was that they said this:

I have never seen so many Trump supporters ever

(and then began to articulare how this was different from the previous times he had visited the states)

Yes particularly in the last few weeks we have been getting an influx in Trump support.

Or should we say an influx in common sense.

I have a mate who lives there now - same deal.

The current odds on the election are showing Trump to win.

[Berries]

Looking forward to next Wednesday - let’s hope it is a fair election.
I imagine it will be, it's not like it is the third world or something.

Unfortunately, the impression I have is that if Trump does not win then he will say it wasn't a fair election and there were all kinds of dodgy deals going on and some of his more rabid followers will go on a rampage as was done last time and who knows where it will end. If the other party doesn't win they will accept the result.

[Stylo]

Yes particularly in the last few weeks we have been getting an influx in Trump support.

Or should we say an influx in common sense.

I have a mate who lives there now - same deal.

The current odds on the election are showing Trump to win.

You'll never win an argument with a cult follower. The Brain washed Fox 'News' Cult. So, I won't even attempt it.

He may well win the election and, heaven help the world if he does.

George Orwell would be turning over in his grave . The 'Dystopian future of a society bereft of reason' That's what Trump is aiming for. And, his idiots are agreeing with him. The orange face painted idiot.

The Trump cult must be proud of themselves. Keep listening to Fox guys, you are obviously unable to make your own decisions.

The ultimate sign of weakness is someone who needs someone like 'Captain Bone Spurs' to make the call for you. He's your champion.

He said he's got the biggest brain in the world. Give me a break. Look after your champion Trump followers. He's the guy that never tells lies remember. You must be proud of him Dean and his orange painted face.

What a Man you must be too. Uncle Donald will look after you mate. Like all the others who can't think for themselves. That's the true sign of weakness.

[pritch]

As well as twenty eight credible accusations of sexual assault against him Trump is an adjudicated rapist. The mental contortions Trump supporters perform in support of their hero are amazing. To refresh whatever is left of their memory, here is Trump confessing to the very crimes they refuse to believe he committed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVKukVC_S5g

[sugilite]

You know that I am libertarian to the core.

While I'm sure you sincerely believe that, and I'm sure you once were - to my eyes, your writings without a shadow of a doubt show you to be a trump maga right wing cultist. Just in this latest exchange you are absolutely steadfastly ignoring Thomas corruptly accepting MANY bribes and trying desperately to paint him as non corrupt due to how YOU consider he ruled. Taking bribes is abject corruption and I have no doubt an actual practising libertarian with their principles still intact would agree. Billionaires do Not give away millions without an expectation of a return on their "investment".

You clearly have lost your way under the weirdly powerful charisma of trump. I sincerely hope you make it out the cult one day.

[TheDemonLord]

While I'm sure you sincerely believe that, and I'm sure you once were - to my eyes, your writings without a shadow of a doubt show you to be a trump maga right wing cultist. Just in this latest exchange you are absolutely steadfastly ignoring Thomas corruptly accepting MANY bribes and trying desperately to paint him as non corrupt due to how YOU consider he ruled. Taking bribes is abject corruption and I have no doubt an actual practising libertarian with their principles still intact would agree. Billionaires do Not give away millions without an expectation of a return on their "investment".

I asked for a single instance, in 30+ years, of Clarence ruling against the Constitution in favor of his doners. Not a very high threshold of evidence by any standard. It is conspicous by its abscence.

But let us come back to the right wing cultist element - because I think this is important - there are many issues in which I am not on the traditional right - Drug legalization (for example) - I don't think the Government should regulate what I put in my body - pretty stock Libertarian position.

I can list a myriad of other positions - but I don't think that is the interesting issue. I think that your dislike of Trump (which you are more than entitled to have) is making you blind to the largess of the Left Wing (Ironically, in much the same way that you accuse me of being blind) - but I want to expand on why I think the issue is on the Left side and not the right side:

Let us presume you and I are having a discussion over a Pint (which BTW - we absolutely need to do again) - and let us assume the topic is Taxation and Tax Policy.

I am going to presume your position - I am not saying this is what you believe (for the sake the point I am eventually going to make):

You say: We need to increase tax on the Wealthiest, because we have various important national projects that need to be done and we need to pay for them.

I say: I think we should decrease tax on the Wealthiest, because most of their wealth is not in liquid or taxable assets and if you do that, they will move their money off shore.

And we back and forth about all the surrounding issues - Government wastage, investment etc.

We can have that debate - because fundamentally we agree on the Principles:

- To live in a modern society requires a degree of Taxation
- there are things that the Government does that are public goods
etc.

This is, to my mind, the classic Left-Right dichotomy that existed up until about the mid 2000s. I believe the reason(s) for that have to do with the fall of the Berlin wall in the 90s and the time it took for various ideas to become socially acceptable again.

So let me now re-run this hypothetical debate with someone else, a Modern Left Winger (and I am going to use actual quotes here):

I say: I think we should decrease tax on the Wealthiest, because most of their wealth is not in liquid or taxable assets and if you do that, they will move their money off shore.

They say: Billionaires are immoral, we should kill them all and take their money. Once you reach 999 Million, that's it, every dollar over that is taxed 100% and you get a little trophy that says congrats you won at Capitalism.

Can you have a meaningful debate here? We do not even agree on the basic fundamentals that underpin the terms of the debate.

I am sure you will counter that this is a somewhat fringe view on the Left and that the majority of Democrat voters do not believe this - fair enough - but here is the issue: You have a minority - lets say 20% of Left Wing voters (Democrat, Labour etc.) who are like this. Their end goal is explicitly to end Capitalism. They then propose to the 80% of Left Wing Voters a policy that sounds reasonable, but furthers their end goal (case in point - look at the UK under Keir Stalin and the most recent budget).

I can hear your retort that this is hyperbole and I am reaching - so let me give a pretty solid example: The Defund the Police Movement.

Furthers the goal of the radicals by destabilizing society and undermining a key social institution, leading to higher unrest and more revolutionary feeling. And before you say I am reaching - here is them spelling it out. (https://www.liberationnews.org/how-will-the-police-be-abolished-a-marxist-perspective/)

Sounds reasonable to a moderate when you couch the policy in terms of 'redirecting resources away from front line policing and into social and preventative programs to stop the problems from occuring in the first place'

What should have happened is the 80% should have told the 20% that this is an absolutely crazy idea and to shut up - but they didn't - I again will raise the quote of JBP - When does the Left go too far?

If the left were to carve out and reject that radical 20%, for starters you would not see the rise of a Trump-like figure, because there would be no need. We could argue about all manner of policy positions, but from the same philosophical foundation: Our Country is good, we need public services, they have to be paid for, but we want to make sure we are being prudent with our tax dollars.

But since the left embraces its radical element, well - you get Trump. Just like Newton said - for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

[sugilite]

It is conspicous by its abscence.

I do not care if thomas has the ability to sweep the floor with a broom jammed in his arse while making rulings on points of constitutional law. the FACT he takes bribes for me disqualifies him instantly on grounds of being an immoral character. Let us for one moment imagine you are in charge of interviewing the next supreme court judge and he/she opens the interview with "You should know I take bribes, lots and lots of them". The interview would end right there yes? So because for me he is disqualified, i would rather watch a trump rally than read one of your walls if i was stupid enough to fall for your lets argue/debate a ruling that I may of felt thomas had made that was dodgy. Under my ethics guide both thomas and Sotomayor would be gone and 3 others on very thin ice.

As i have mentioned tiresomely often the dems have their radical elements largely under control, but the right have put their lunatics in charge of the asylum. That is the reason I do not have much focus on the left at this point in time.


But since the left embraces its radical element, well - you get Trump. Just like Newton said - for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
This is a very good point, because here you are finally acknowledging that your full throat support of trump is by your own definition supporting the radical right. You may be one of the few fascist libertarians the world has seen.

Re: Catch up for a beer - just after the election sound good?

[TheDemonLord]

I do not care if thomas has the ability to sweep the floor with a broom jammed in his arse while making rulings on points of constitutional law. the FACT he takes bribes

Whether it is a Bribe, is contingent on whether or not there is any action taken.

Here is my position - Imagine a First Amendment case, someone is saying mean things about one of Clarences buddies - the case ends up before the SC and Clarence rules against the First Amendment, in favor of his patrons.

At that moment, I will be fully on-board with your argument. I will agree he was Bribed, that he is corrupt and that he is unfit to hold office.

Absent that scenario - looking at nearly 30 years of opinion, especially on major cases - I cannot find an instance where he has gone against the Constitution.

If you say it looks bad and it has bad optics - I can see and respect that viewpoint. But for me to move from bad optics to corrupt - I am going to need a ruling against the constitution.


As i have mentioned tiresomely often the dems have their radical elements largely under control, but the right have put their lunatics in charge of the asylum. That is the reason I do not have much focus on the left at this point in time.

Jan 6th riots = $1.5 Million worth of damage (estimated)
BLM riots = $2 Billion worth of damage (estimated)

By what metric do you think it is largely under control?

Again, I point to Defund the Police - a Left Wing that had its radicals under control would not have advocated for this policy. Biological Men in Womens Sports. Failing to police the Border.

The list goes on.

Can you show me an equivalent fringe Right Wing Policy that was implemented at a National level?

Some examples could be to get rid of the ATF or the Department of Education.


This is a very good point, because here you are finally acknowledging that your full throat support of trump is by your own definition supporting the radical right. You may be one of the few fascist libertarians the world has seen.

What Radical Right?

I think I asked the question to either yourself or Pritch a while ago - Consider Project 2025 or any other supposed radical or far-right Agenda: Assuming everything comes to pass, as the authors of these policies hope - what is the outcome?

And then I want to compare it to the radicals on the Left - if everything that they seek to do, what comes to pass?

To be clear - I am not saying that there is not a radical right - I am saying that the actual radical right is barely non-existent and has no institutional sway or influence.

Yes, there are edgy internet teens who tell spicy jokes to get a reaction, but they are not a serious political block.


Re: Catch up for a beer - just after the election sound good?

Absolutely!

[Kb2020dope]

Looking forward to next Wednesday - let’s hope it is a fair election.

You can bet I will be celebrating for Trumps victory.

Keeping Trump in my prayers for this election.

https://youtu.be/-KoXt9pZLGM?si=gTf2ioa_nR5l_G1l

I'm keeping my schedule free for Wednesday afternoon and Thursday (recovery) shoot over to mine Wednesday afternoon. I'll be celebrating trumps victory in style with a nice wagyu brisket and a nice bottle of EH Taylor single barrel, plenty to go around.

[Dean]

I'm keeping my schedule free for Wednesday afternoon and Thursday (recovery) shoot over to mine Wednesday afternoon. I'll be celebrating trumps victory in style with a nice wagyu brisket and a nice bottle of EH Taylor single barrel, plenty to go around.

Count me in! Chuck some Trump flags on the Ute too!

Any other Trump fans welcome to join.

[pritch]

"Liz Cheney wouldn't have the courage to look the enemy in the eye." Says the guy who had no less than five draft deferments to make bloody sure he didn't have to look the enemy in the eye.

What a joke. Anybody who takes this clown seriously needs to take a look at themselves.

[pritch]

Count me in! Chuck some Trump flags on the Ute too!

Any other Trump fans welcome to join.

I have cans of 'Dump The Trump' in the fridge ready.

[Kb2020dope]

Count me in! Chuck some Trump flags on the Ute too!

Any other Trump fans welcome to join.

Perfect! We should have good numbers to celebrate! I have got that bonfire stacked up at the back of the farm definitely light that up in celebration!

[Kb2020dope]

I have cans of 'Dump The Trump' in the fridge ready.

Should have waited till Thursday to buy them, they'll be half price!

[pritch]

Should have waited till Thursday to buy them, they'll be half price!

Umm I don't pay retail.

Trump knows he's losing, he is already complaining the election is rigged. He wouldn't be doing that if the internal polling was telling him he was winning.

[Kb2020dope]

Umm I don't pay retail.

Trump knows he's losing, he is already complaining the election is rigged. He wouldn't be doing that if the internal polling was telling him he was winning.

The old lefty five finger discount. Mate it's tough out the for small businesses right now, either find a way to pay for it or don't have it. You could also consider making homebrew beer.

I am aware your news sources may not be reporting on the ballot boxes being set on fire. This is the weak left trying to prevent the inevitable. Anyway, I can have my views and you can have yours. Let just see what happens on election day. All the best bud.

[pritch]

The old lefty five finger discount. Mate it's tough out the for small businesses right now, either find a way to pay for it or don't have it. You could also consider making homebrew beer.

I am aware your news sources may not be reporting on the ballot boxes being set on fire. This is the weak left trying to prevent the inevitable. Anyway, I can have my views and you can have yours. Let just see what happens on election day. All the best bud.

You've managed to read that completely wrong. There's a reason Trump loves the poorly educated. The burning ballot boxes were a Republican effort, it being conventional wisdom that it's predominantly Democrats who vote early. So too the machete waving fuckwit, the guy trying to vote wearing a 'Lets go Brandon' hat, and the woman ejected from a polling place for abusing voters. There will doubtless be more.

[Kb2020dope]

You've managed to read that completely wrong. There's a reason Trump loves the poorly educated. The burning ballot boxes were a Republican effort, it being conventional wisdom that it's predominantly Democrats who vote early. So too the machete waving fuckwit, the guy trying to vote wearing a 'Lets go Brandon' hat, and the woman ejected from a polling place for abusing voters. There will doubtless be more.

You managed to be a basic closed and small minded lefty.

Of course, whatever mainstream media says is 100% the truth for a sheep like yourself.

What I would like you to do is broaden your horizons and challenge yourself .

I want you to listen and read multiple sources of news. Look into left news and right news and then create your own opinion.

To be honest, I used to be like you. Then, six years ago, I challenged myself and realised I was not seeing both sides of the story.

That's all I ask of you. I would love to see you challenge yourself.

You are entitled to your opinion bud, I would just hate to think you haven't challenge yourself.

All the best with your journey.

[Dean]

Perfect! We should have good numbers to celebrate! I have got that bonfire stacked up at the back of the farm definitely light that up in celebration!

Mate, did you see that Trump is the current favourite to win the election (odds) on average across all major betting sites? How good!

[Kb2020dope]

Mate, did you see that Trump is the current favourite to win the election (odds) on average across all major betting sites? How good!

Yeah, I see that. Polls can lie, media will lie, money never lies!

[Kb2020dope]

No-one can argue with a cult member like Dean. You won't win.

The brain washed people . He's one of them. Trump likes stupid.

If his Trump tells him the sky is green ,then, it must be.

Because Trump said it was. You'll never win an argument with an idiot. Especially a cult follower. Dumb follows the Dumbest I guess.

You're special Dean.

Hey bud, I think you read this wrong. I'm agreeing that the money is saying Trump will win. You are reminding me of biden right now.

You clearly didn't understand, Trump likes stupid is a big call, how do you know he will like you, have you meet him before?

Let's agree to disagree and see what happens on the big day.

[Stylo]

Hey bud, I think you read this wrong. I'm agreeing that the money is saying Trump will win. You are reminding me of biden right now.

You clearly didn't understand, Trump likes stupid is a big call, how do you know he will like you, have you meet him before?

Let's agree to disagree and see what happens on the big day.

Yep, I misread it . Lets see what happens.

[1/32 man]

Let's agree to disagree and see what happens on the big day.

I dont know who will win but I can spot a wanker when I see one or usually hear one...Do some research, listen to both sides....yep, done that and tearumphf is still a wanker attracting other wankers to his team.

You know what eventually happens to wankers dont you? Of course you do.

[pritch]

There is speculation about Trump's "secret plan" with Johnson the Speaker of the House. Apart from the fact that Trump announced it to the world it's probably not much of a secret. Speaker Johnson can control the counting of the votes on January 6 much as Trump wanted Pence to do. The theory is that if some States don't confirm their election results neither party will reach 270 Electoral College votes. The vote would then go to Congress, one vote per state, which would give the presidency to Trump.

This is apparently a misconception. The Constitution refers to a majority and while 270 is normally the current majority if there are less votes the majority will be a lower number.

Anyhoo, if the Democrats take back the House, as is likely, Johnson won't be Speaker. On Jan 3rd Hakeem Jeffries will assume the role of Speaker of the House.

[pritch]

What I would like you to do is broaden your horizons and challenge yourself .


May I respectfully suggest you take your own advice?

[pritch]

Random thought: Y'all will be aware that Trump was found guilty of 34 felonies. it's just possible that you forgot he hasn't been sentenced yet. That number of felonies should guarantee prison. Well, we don't have that long to wait sentencing is set for 26 November. If Trump loses the election he should go to prison. If he wins he could still go to prison. How dumb are people who would vote for a president who would have to preside from prison?

[jellywrestler]

how dumb are people who would vote for a president who would have to preside from prison?

would he be able to do that from inside?

[pete376403]

Random thought: Y'all will be aware that Trump was found guilty of 34 felonies. it's just possible that you forgot he hasn't been sentenced yet. That number of felonies should guarantee prison. Well, we don't have that long to wait sentencing is set for 26 November. If Trump loses the election he should go to prison. If he wins he could still go to prison. How dumb are people who would vote for a president who would have to preside from prison?

Pretty much guaranteed that he would pardon himself for the federal crimes, dont know how it would play with the state crimes

[pete376403]

would he be able to do that from inside?

Capone ran his empire from Alcatraz

[Grumph]

would he be able to do that from inside?

Been reported that the secret service who provide protection have been working out how to do it.

I suspect it would involve a lot of zoom calls - and a secure courier for documents.

If of course, he wins.

[Grumph]

Pretty much guaranteed that he would pardon himself for the federal crimes, dont know how it would play with the state crimes

Most are state level - for which he can't pardon himself.

Which is why in almost every case he's tried to get it to the Supreme Court and thus Federal level.

[pritch]

Most are state level - for which he can't pardon himself.

Which is why in almost every case he's tried to get it to the Supreme Court and thus Federal level.

True, Trump could pardon himself for federal crimes but not state crimes like his 34 convictions for fraud in New York. On Day One of a Tump presidency we can assume he would dismiss prosecutor Jack Smith and all his federal problems would go away. If Trump loses Smith will be going hard after the documents case which is potentally the most serious. Ignore the talk about whether the documents were classified or not, that's irrelevant. Trump would be facing espionage charges. Which is why he is running. He isn't running to be President. He's running to stay out of prison.

[husaberg]

True, Trump could pardon himself for federal crimes but not state crimes like his 34 convictions for fraud in New York. On Day One of a Tump presidency we can assume he would dismiss prosecutor Jack Smith and all his federal problems would go away. If Trump loses Smith will be going hard after the documents case which is potentally the most serious. Ignore the talk about whether the documents were classified or not, that's irrelevant. Trump would be facing espionage charges. Which is why he is running. He isn't running to be President. He's running to stay out of prison.

I don't believe a president can self pardon, as they would be in Essence sitting in judgement over themselves. That would not stop him trying of course.

[pritch]

I don't believe a president can self pardon, as they would be in Essence sitting in judgement over themselves. That would not stop him trying of course.

Online podcasts containing discussion among lawyers indicate the pardoning rights available to a president are very broad. There is nothing to say he can't pardon himself. As you point out there are reasons it should not be done, and normally it wouldn't, but this is Trump. Presidents are not supposed to sell pardons either but...

[Pursang]

Been reported that the secret service who provide protection have been working out how to do it.

I suspect it would involve a lot of zoom calls - and a secure courier for documents.

If of course, he wins.

If I recall correctly....provision of Secret Service protection to a former president is an Executive function, at the discretion of the sitting President!

[Pursang]

....

In the Interest of Support and Inclusion! R.U.OK?

https://leavingmaga.org/

[1/32 man]

I have bought in three weeks worth of popcorn, just to be on the safe side.

Will it be enough? Should I have also laid in some more water and food?

[pritch]

Trump's campaign has apparently handed their ground game to the Musk Political Action Committee. It seems though that the Musk PAC is riven by corruption; people claiming payment for work they haven't done. Also Trump is speaking in some odd places. States that are not critical to the outcome.

Last night I heard that a poll gave Iowa to Harris by 47 to 44. Previously it would have been considered good if Harris only lost by 10. That poll is normally one of the most accurate in the US and has only had a single exception where they got it significantly wrong. I was slightly surprised to hear that reported on the news here this morning. It's possible that some MAGA are finally realising their emperor has no clothes. They won't vote for Harris they'll just stay home. Their wives might not though.

Trump is playing to diminishing crowd sizes he reminds me of the Bread song, "The Guitarman."

The lights begin to flicker and the sound is getting dim
the voice begins to falter and the crowds are getting thin
but he never seems to notice
he's just got to find another place to play

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SvWlFf9TUc

[Grumph]

I'm starting to suspect he's going to lose - bigly. And ugly.

Once the reality sinks into the GOP - such as it is now - there's going to be another night of the long knives play out.

Popcorn shares could be a good buy.

[Laava]

I have bought in three weeks worth of popcorn, just to be on the safe side.

Will it be enough? Should I have also laid in some more water and food?
You might need some virtual earplugs to block out all the online anguish on this thread when fatboy gets fired.

[pritch]

You might need some virtual earplugs to block out all the online anguish on this thread when fatboy gets fired.

It may take some time as they will be confused initially. Nobody expects great intelligence of MAGA but one here has already posted that he'll watch on the wrong day.

[F5 Dave]

So for lols, let's say Harris wins, but Biden gets confused, digs his heels in and refuses to relinquish control. What happens then?

[Laava]

It may take some time as they will be confused initially. Nobody expects great intelligence of MAGA but one here has already posted that he'll watch on the wrong day.

https://youtu.be/HAJb5N9wfSY?si=P_B8eEdrXyGfZ2uK

[pritch]

This guy understands that this line of employment is likely short lived. You only need to watch a couple of minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZT98ajRfxM

[Berries]

So for lols, let's say Harris wins, but Biden gets confused, digs his heels in and refuses to relinquish control. What happens then?
His nurse would have words.

[1/32 man]

when fatboy gets fired.

I'd like to see that....more popcorn then.

[onearmedbandit]

An interesting video on tribal thinking with application to the political sides in America.

"The beliefs of most people are not formed by a careful consideration of the data. That includes me, and it probably includes you". Science backs this up, as does observation of how the tribes act. One obvious Trump supporter acknowledged that when she was on a zoom call with some democrats what shocked her the most was how similar she saw her behaviour was to theirs.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zB_OApdxcno?si=-per8YicxveSL2D5" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[F5 Dave]

Good clip.

But I can't help but thinking "How can I get a piece of that Clothing Merch action selling for both sides? :cool:

[Kb2020dope]

Yep, I misread it . Lets see what happens.

Hey stylo,

Completely understand, so much bullshit on this thread! Easy to get lost. Allgood I'm on your level. Put the debates aside. Whoever wins , wins

[Kb2020dope]

I dont know who will win but I can spot a wanker when I see one or usually hear one...Do some research, listen to both sides....yep, done that and tearumphf is still a wanker attracting other wankers to his team.

You know what eventually happens to wankers dont you? Of course you do.

1/32:of a man! Buddy! I would really like to take you under my wing and show you how to cope with things not quite going your way!

[Kb2020dope]

May I respectfully suggest you take your own advice?

Buddy, I take my own advice every day, it is the reason I am some what content 😌

[Dean]

Looking forward to the elections tomorrow.

The coals are ready, it will be chargrill and Trump flags on the Ute.

God bless Trump!

[Kb2020dope]

So for lols, let's say Harris wins, but Biden gets confused, digs his heels in and refuses to relinquish control. What happens then?

Buddy I haven't been on here for a while. In this time I have seen you come out of the shadows,blossom and become more confident. I am happy to leave you alone and let you post freely. I'm am proud of your growth

[Kb2020dope]

Looking forward to the elections tomorrow.

The coals are ready, it will be chargrill and Trump flags on the Ute.

God bless Trump!

I can't wait!
We will be celebrating freedom into the early hours for sure!

[Pursang]

....
With all your mates!
355129

[TheDemonLord]

It's show time!

[1/32 man]

I can't wait!
We will be celebrating freedom into the early hours for sure!

Drumpf and freedom is an oxymoron.......or just a moron.

[Laava]

Drumpf and freedom is an oxymoron.......or just a moron.
Someone sounds very excitable! Like a kid on Fanta!

[Berries]

Are we there yet.



Love this photo. Make up your own captions, without including anyone from KB for slander reasons (that includes the good ole boys).

[pritch]

An interesting video on tribal thinking with application to the political sides in America.


That's interesting but may not be entirely relevant. It exhibits the same problem the news media have. Most of them feel the need to show no bias so they "both sides" every issue. Normally that's fine but when one side is a mentally ill, conman, criminal, wannabe dictator, it just doesn't work. It has failed.

And so to the election. I have enough faith in Americans to believe Trump will get wiped out in the popular vote. Then there's the Electoral College. He now has believers working in the electoral system though so possibly there will be delays in certification in some redneck states. It's also possible he will declare victory tonight while temporarily ahead. The small rural electorates come in first so Republicans take the lead early. The big city electorates come in later. It's the same in this country and probably everywhere else. I hope the Democrats have a plan fir whatever tricks Trump pulls.

If nothing else it will be interesting.

[onearmedbandit]

That's interesting but may not be entirely relevant. It exhibits the same problem the news media have. Most of them feel the need to show no bias so they "both sides" every issue. Normally that's fine but when one side is a mentally ill, conman, criminal, wannabe dictator, it just doesn't work. It has failed.



The content wasn't trying to claim any relevance to a specific politician, it was only referencing how many people come to conclusions.

[TheDemonLord]

An interesting video on tribal thinking with application to the political sides in America.

"The beliefs of most people are not formed by a careful consideration of the data. That includes me, and it probably includes you". Science backs this up, as does observation of how the tribes act. One obvious Trump supporter acknowledged that when she was on a zoom call with some democrats what shocked her the most was how similar she saw her behaviour was to theirs.

I found the video interesting - I would hazard a guess that part of the reluctance is due to experience and that social phenomena is notoriously difficult to analyze and track data for.

As a case in point - my experience when commuting on the bike in Auckland was that luxury, white late-model SUVs driven by a certain demographic demanded a wide berth.

If you then come at me with a study that (using various statistical means) saying they are no better or worse than any other demographic, I am going to be more skeptical. Plus from my side, with a bit of dabbling in how Data works and can be manipulated, Causation and correlation, interpretation etc. there are many ways to frame data to make the point you want to.

For example:

If you look at who is the better driver - Men or Women:

In absolute terms - More Men die whilst driving than Women, therefore Women are the better drivers, right...
But if you look at who causes accidents and then factoring in the amount of driving done, Women are over-represent (Men do 62% of the driving, but only cause 58% of the accidents)
But then if you exclude minor accidents and only focus on those that cause serious injury of Death - almost all Men (94%)
But then if you factor in who does most of the open-road driving where speeds are higher, it paints a different picture

And so on and so forth - point is, there are many ways to express the data to serve whichever point you want - and the experiment by Ground News (who I like as a company btw) - did not factor that in explicitly.

[pritch]

The content wasn't trying to claim any relevance to a specific politician, it was only referencing how many people come to conclusions.

I understand that. I basically agree with the gist of the item but don't consider it applies in the current circumstances. It may apply to most MAGA and to some Democrats but the extreme that is Trump is outside what is normal.

[onearmedbandit]

A bit of a storm online about Google not playing fair with search results. When entering "where to vote for Harris" into their search engine you would get an interactive map showing where to vote. When the same search was put in except with Trump instead of Harris no such map was given. Google say they've now fixed the error and that it was due to their algorithm mistaking Kamala Harris for Harris county in Texas.

https://nypost.com/2024/11/05/us-news/google-admits-trump-harris-search-discrepancy-says-fix-is-coming/

[TheDemonLord]

A bit of a storm online about Google not playing fair with search results. When entering "where to vote for Harris" into their search engine you would get an interactive map showing where to vote. When the same search was put in except with Trump instead of Harris no such map was given. Google say they've now fixed the error and that it was due to their algorithm mistaking Kamala Harris for Harris county in Texas.

https://nypost.com/2024/11/05/us-news/google-admits-trump-harris-search-discrepancy-says-fix-is-coming/

Just like it was a Mistake that the Trump Rogan podcast wasnt trending or searchable...

Curious how these 'mistakes' only ever go one way and in favor of one wing....

[Laava]

Are we there yet.



Love this photo. Make up your own captions, without including anyone from KB for slander reasons (that includes the good ole boys).
Donald Trump, voting in disguise, whispers to the guy on his right, "how do you spell trump?" "H.A.R.R.I.S"

[HenryDorsetCase]

Are we there yet.



Love this photo. Make up your own captions, without including anyone from KB for slander reasons (that includes the good ole boys).

Isn't it great that in a long term relationship, lovers tend to gravitate towards each other - they dress alike (suspenders, cutoff T shirts) and sound alike and even look alike. Its so cute!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Also, as an experiment, I am avoiding all news media, websites etc for the next 24 hours. I am relying completely on Kiwibiker for how my opinion should be formed. Whoever rants best/loudest/longest/last will win.

Don't let me down, fam! I am counting on you!

[Berries]

Also, as an experiment, I am avoiding all news media, websites etc for the next 24 hours. I am relying completely on Kiwibiker for how my opinion should be formed. Whoever rants best/loudest/longest/last will win.

Well the BBC is reporting that the Donald is already alleging cheating in Philadelphia but we knew that would happen.

And on that note I am away fishing for the afternoon so will get the results on the 6 o'clock news tonight and get the family to play 'What war am I watching?" and try and guess whether is is Gaza, Kyiv, or Buttfuck, Idaho.

[TheDemonLord]

Also, as an experiment, I am avoiding all news media, websites etc for the next 24 hours. I am relying completely on Kiwibiker for how my opinion should be formed. Whoever rants best/loudest/longest/last will win.

Don't let me down, fam! I am counting on you!

Longest rant?

I got this in the bag...

[Laava]

Well the BBC is reporting that the Donald is already alleging cheating in Philadelphia but we knew that would happen.

And on that note I am away fishing for the afternoon so will get the results on the 6 o'clock news tonight and get the family to play 'What war am I watching?" and try and guess whether is is Gaza, Kyiv, or Buttfuck, Idaho.
So that is​ a real place! I fucking knew it! I bet it is near Badiddlyboing.

[Kb2020dope]

Drumpf and freedom is an oxymoron.......or just a moron.

Being 1/32 of a man I'm sure you would of loved walz policy about tampons in men's bathrooms... but it looks like trump has won bud

[Kb2020dope]

Hey team,

I am officially calling this election. TRUMP HAS WON!
FREEDOM!
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!

[sugilite]

Hey team,

I am officially calling this election. TRUMP HAS WON!
FREEDOM!
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!Did you learn nothing from 2020. Patience grasshopper.

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

[Laava]

Did you learn nothing from 2020. Patience grasshopper.

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk
OMG they're on here crowing already!

[Kb2020dope]

Did you learn nothing from 2020. Patience grasshopper.

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

....I'm waiting. Still looking like trump has won! What do you think?

[TheDemonLord]

Well, AP have called Georgia for Trump, 270towin have called Pensylvania for Trump and Alaska for Trump.

Which all but confirms that Trump has won.

Still waiting for the official confirmation - but things are looking good.

[onearmedbandit]

Seems there is a bit of ill-feeling in the Biden camp from what some reports are suggesting. Jill Biden turning up to vote dressed head to toe in red and even some suggesting their granddaughter announcing her pregnancy on election day was an attempt to steal the spotlight from Kamala.

[nerrrd]

Yes President Trump is President once more.

Will be a fascinating time ahead.

[Dean]

Thank you our lord and savour for keeping Trump as president.

I am over the moon - time to celebrate all night!

To the Democrat/Anti Trump/Harris supporters on here - hard luck, keep your chin up.

[TheDemonLord]

Looks rather promising. And the popular Vote could be Trumps as well.

[pete376403]

I guess a woman of colour was a reach too far. It certainly will be interesting from here on. Last best hope - some time in the next three months Biden (still president) resigns or dies, VP Harris takes over, immediately takes the Supreme Court immunity ruling and runs with it, having a few people removed. Pity it will never happen.

[TheDemonLord]

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/11/06/17/91765417-14049517-image-a-39_1730912766630.jpg
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/11/06/16/91764543-14049517-image-a-27_1730911793059.jpg
https://platform.vox.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2024/07/AP24195803307155.jpg
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/357058728/figure/fig1/AS:1106072240697345@1640719580712/Symbolic-power-and-nationalism-in-God-Emperor-Trump-images.jpg

Okay - I am done with the Memes. Later on, I will probably post something more substantive.

[1/32 man]

Goodness me, president drumpf once again!

The bullshit has certainly stuck to the blanket.

[pritch]

Well, I got that wrong. First US commentator I checked this morning started out, "We are a stupid country."
No argument from me. Think I'll go for a ride. :ride:

[sugilite]

....I'm waiting. Still looking like trump has won! What do you think?I think dope has forgotten, voters don't choose presidents, because according to trump - vice presidents do! I thank god that current vice president and now president elect kamala will have the courage to do what vice president pence did not! I invite all dems to come down to the capital on Jan 6th, it will be a riot!

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

[TheDemonLord]

I think dope has forgotten, voters don't choose presidents, because according to trump - vice presidents do! I thank god that current vice president and now president elect kamala will have the courage to do what vice president pence did not! I invite all dems to come down to the capital on Jan 6th, it will be a riot!

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

Maybe they might remember to bring their guns...

But then, they are terrible marksmen.... :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[sugilite]

Maybe they might remember to bring their guns...

But then, they are terrible marksmen.... [emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38][emoji38]What are you talking about? it will be a fight, fight, fight fight, fight, fight fight, fight, fight fight, fight, fight fight, fight, fight, peaceful love in, like a group of tourists feeling the love taking in the views, just like the last Jan 6th certificates celebration ;-p

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

[Pursang]

https://i.imgur.com/RXReexP.png

[onearmedbandit]

I guess a woman of colour was a reach too far.

Are you suggesting that's the reason she lost? A lot of polls were showing dissatisfaction with the last 4yrs of government. Or is it just racism and sexism?

[TheDemonLord]

Are you suggesting that's the reason she lost? A lot of polls were showing dissatisfaction with the last 4yrs of government. Or is it just racism and sexism?

One emerging demographic that is interesting is apparently the Amish are largely responsible for swinging Pensylvania.

The Democrats wanted to interfere with their Farms and way of life.
The Amish just want to be left alone to live their lives as they see fit.

[TheDemonLord]

Okay - last Gloating post from me.


TONIGHT WE RIDE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOvZKJlrtk8

[nerrrd]

I don't think gender or race are the determining factors here, or at least not in any significant numbers.

I think the problem is the numbers who have been economically disadvantaged by the current push towards globalisation and free trade over the last 40 years have grown large enough in the US to make a difference now in the general electorate.

I don't see how tariffs and deportations will solve that, but at least both are an acknowledgement of the situation these people are in and therefore preferable to sticking with the status quo, which I think is what Harris represents (regardless of any policy changes she might have suggested).

I also don't see why 'billionaire' businessmen such as Trump, Musk etc, who have been the main beneficiaries of the growth in the global economy over the same period, are suddenly going to give that up to create well paid factory jobs in the US. But what do I know.

I also wonder if the human and financial cost of being the world's de facto police force is not something the general US citizenry are prepared to pay anymore. Again, I'm not sure why they think millionaires and billionaires who are probably heavily invested in the military industrial complex are going to change that, but time will tell.

Edit: I suspect there will be a fair bit of Schadenfreude today in the Biden and Clinton households.

[Berries]

apparently the Amish are largely responsible for swinging Pensylvania..
How does that work with no car keys to go in the bowl?


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[sugilite]

Frigging amish did it eh. They need to be bombed back into the horse and buggy days :rolleyes:

[Laava]

So if Trump drops dead, and let's face it, that could happen, he is old and obese, then DJ Vance will be the US of Putins first homosexual president?
:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[pritch]

Or is it just racism and sexism?

Pretty much.

[neels]

I wonder how many more votes are still to come in.

With the numbers so far Trump won not because more voted for him, in fact 2 million less than last time, but a huge number less voted against him.

Was the 2020 outcome a reaction to the shitfight that was the US Covid response? Is their inability to combat the subsequent worldwide inflation and cost of living crisis, and the associated massive business profits at the expense of the average person, the reason they are now out on their arse?

Or was voting for someone coloured and female just a step too far, I remember talking to americans before the 2016 election who would never vote republican but also refused to vote for Hilary, so just weren't voting at all.

Regardless, best of luck to them for the next four years.

355134
355135

[onearmedbandit]

Pretty much.

There must be a lot of confused women and blacks in America right now then...

[mashman]

Was the 2020 outcome a reaction to the shitfight that was the US Covid response?

The evidence would suggest that the last election was stolen :shifty:

[pete376403]

Are you suggesting that's the reason she lost? A lot of polls were showing dissatisfaction with the last 4yrs of government. Or is it just racism and sexism?

I would say it had a bearing on the outcome.

[Grumph]

The evidence would suggest that the last election was stolen :shifty:

Rubbish. No evidence has ever surfaced of a stolen election.

What a comparison of the two elections does suggest is that the racist, misogynistic electorate chose a convicted criminal
over a woman of colour.

The US deserves everything coming to them. Those who will not learn from history are condemned to relive it.

[F5 Dave]

We like to think we are enlightened, but it wasn't long ago that if you got on a plane and found the pilot was female you might be shocked at the concept and say an extra prayer. You knew your doctor was a man and you wouldn't hire a woman into an executive role to do a man's job.

It's no surprise that there are so few women in their political system of any real power. Much of America seems to be living in the past.

A Great Again past apparently.

I woke feeling disappointed in the American women folk in particular. They had the numbers to sink him.

It takes some clutching to your imaginary moral compass to overlook his very unchristian behaviour and disregard of your gender.

[Kb2020dope]

Thank you our lord and savour for keeping Trump as president.

I am over the moon - time to celebrate all night!

To the Democrat/Anti Trump/Harris supporters on here - hard luck, keep your chin up.

Amen! What a wonderful result for the US and the world!

Looks like there are a few un happy campers on this thread. Let's strive to offer any support they need and most importantly be gracious in success.

I'm thinking of organising a trump celebration BBQ if you are interested.

[mashman]

What a comparison of the two elections does suggest is that the racist, misogynistic electorate chose a convicted criminal over a woman of colour.

The US deserves everything coming to them.

The last 5 elections somewhat rule out the race angle, unless murca suddenly became racists again... or indeed decided to put paid against the myth that once you go black you never go back.

None of us do... but hey, with political education being what it is, it's not hard to see why it remains that way.

[Laava]

One thing I have found ironic is the MAGA retards that have a notion that a deity is responsible for Trunt getting elected.
If there was a god that matches the description of what many would call 'christianity' and said god was bestowed with pure virtue etc etc forgiving, humble, non judgmental etc, then it is pretty hard to imagine this supreme being as endorsing a narcissistic, megalomaniac, bent on revenge.
Pretty poor form america.

[TheDemonLord]

355137

So, I first want to post this crappy little Excel Graph that I took a few minutes to make. Look at the line with Vote Totals, there are some outliers - for example Obama in 2008 is a big jump - but he was widely popular - both right and left agree he was massively popular.

Then you have Biden. This result, statistically, sticks out like a sore thumb.

This does not prove there was fraud, it was stolen or fortified or whatever. I do not have the evidence for that. All I am saying is that Bidens vote count on 2020 is exceedingly suspicious. Especially when the vote tallies before and after for both Trump, Hilary and Kamala are all in-line with each other.

To put it blunty: Biden's vote tally in 2020, now that we've seen both the Republican and Democrat vote tallies in 2024, Stinks.

Now - onto why Kamala lost.

Firstly - it has nothing to do with Sexism or Mysoginy.

The major issue was the Economy - I have been banging on about it for umpteen years - but it is really simple: The Trump economy was good, the Biden Economy with record inflation was terrible. Kamala was Biden's VP and so the smell of shit from Bidens administration clung to her.

Followed a close second by the Border. Trump has some of the lowest illegal migration numbers and then Biden opened up the flood gates.

Next up - Foreign Policy - Less War globally under Trump, more war Globally under Biden (and therefore Harris).

Then you have the likes of the Amish in Pensylvania - they are not an inherently political block - but the Democrats tried to interfere with them, they voted against it.

Something else to note - Most Americans like Israel and the Jews - seeing the left response (in some cases, directly supporting Hamas) and seeing how this was tolerated and accepted - did not help.

Then you have all the Social/Woke stuff - only a fringe minority of Communists want it - the mask has slipped for the wider populace and they are no longer on board.

Abortion - This was supposedly the golden ticket the Dems had to Victory - but as it turns out - like when Roe was being decided - the biggest voting block who oppose Abortion is..... Mothers!

Now onto Kamala and her Campaign itself - because there are 3 key things here that lost her:

1: Her refusal to do longform, unscripted interviews. This was a master-stroke by the Trump team - to do the big Podcast circuit. 2-3 hour conversations, uninterupted by Fact Checkers or blatantly partisan questions. And the whole Trump team was doing them: Trump, RFK, Vivek, Thulsi, Vance etc. Something someone else mentioned is that whilst Trump is a big picture guy (Sorry Sugi) - the likes of Vance and RFK did an excellent job of turning that broad stroke into something more focused, which helped explain it to the populace.

The average person who listens to these got to see the real people behind the public persona, not the wildly distorted headline. Kamala shot herself in the foot by not doing these.

2: She failed to distance herself from Biden. I mentioned alot the failings of the Biden administration - and as the VP, she is partially responsible. Never once did I hear Kamala say: This is what I am going to do different than Biden. She could have framed it in terms that whilst a VP, her loyalty is to the President - but now she has a different vision for the country - but she didn't.

3: Zero Accountability. I think, if there was a single answer that sunk her presidential run it would be when she was asked about the Border and why had they done nothing in 4 years - and her response "But Donald Trump has been running for office for 4 years" Everything bad in the world is Donald Trumps fault and everything we did was perfect.

She took zero accountability and had zero leadership and was soundly defeated as a result.

The fact that the cries of Sexism and Mysoginy are used as scapegoats only serve to reinforce this point.

[roogazza]

Nice that this thread can die a natural death now ?

I see Woman of Colour, mentioned a couple of times....and was thinking what am I ?

A Man of Whiteness ???????? :confused:

Anyway its all over now ! :Punk:

[onearmedbandit]

It reminds me of the weak retort many had when Jacinda Ardern faced criticism (like all politicians do), which of course was "you just don't like having a woman tell you what to do". So when it's a male politician it's because of his character, his decisions, his policies, his wealth, his friends etc. But when it's a female it therefore can only be because of her gender. Kinda sexist don't ya think....

[Grumph]

Nice that this thread can die a natural death now ?

I see Woman of Colour, mentioned a couple of times....and was thinking what am I ?

A Man of Whiteness ???????? :confused:

Anyway its all over now ! :Punk:

Unfortunately it's not over.

NZ has a history of going where the US drags us. The Five Eyes net and ANZUS tie us to the US for better or worse.
Plus if Trump starts the promised trade war it will without doubt affect us too.

If this term is to be like his last -but with the guardrails removed - there will still be plenty to discuss.

[TheDemonLord]

Yesterday I finished Gloating - but I want to write something a little more serious. Here are my hopes for the second Trump Presidency.

1: I would like to see the US economy improve. When the US does well, we do well.
2: I am interested to see if his Tariff policy happens and what the impacts are. There are a lot of University Economists who are naysaying it - but suffice to say, my opinion of them is not terribly high.
3: I would like to see Trump drasrtically shrink and restrict the power of the Federal Government, in similar fashion to Argentina. My hope is that we will get to see the experiment run on a large scale as to what happens to a modern western country when the Government shrinks.
4: I want to see the US become a net exporter energy, hopefully will have an impact on our fuel prices
5: I am keenly interested to see what happens to various Global conflicts under a second Trump Presidency. Will they escalate, will they continue, will they calm down? My hope is that we will see a reduction in wars, either in the form of a cease fire or even a negotiated settlement.
6: I would like to see the ripples of the US election go to other countries. Here, the UK, Aus etc. showing that one does not have to accept the left-wing a priori positions on issues in order to win Elections.
7: I want to see States rights issues be debated and resolved at the State level.
8: De-regulation where appropriate.
9: Restoration of the southern Border. People smuggling is a horrible business and is encouraged by a leaky border.

Overall, I want to see a revived economy, a reduction in wars, reduction in government largess and an increase in freedom.

If the Democrats are smart (I doubt it), then since Trump cannot run for a 3rd term, they should stop the Lawfare, stop the impeachment attempts and keep their attacks above board and within the realm of acceptable political discourse - accept the Loss and move on.

[neels]

1: I would like to see the US economy improve. When the US does well, we do well.
Maybe, for the share market and influence on worldwide interest rates.


2: I am interested to see if his Tariff policy happens and what the impacts are. There are a lot of University Economists who are naysaying it - but suffice to say, my opinion of them is not terribly high.

The US already has significant tariffs on a wide range of things, which the Biden administration has already increased (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/05/14/fact-sheet-president-biden-takes-action-to-protect-american-workers-and-businesses-from-chinas-unfair-trade-practices/). US industry is inefficient and needs protectionism to minimise competition, without the tariff on electric cars from China for example Tesla would probably cease to exist.


3: I would like to see Trump drastically shrink and restrict the power of the Federal Government, in similar fashion to Argentina. My hope is that we will get to see the experiment run on a large scale as to what happens to a modern western country when the Government shrinks.
That probably needs to happen everywhere, where there seems to be a ministry for bloody everything with all of the associated regulations and overheads.


4: I want to see the US become a net exporter energy, hopefully will have an impact on our fuel prices
More likely that they would increase production for domestic supply to reduce imports, but not at a high enough level to reduce world prices and reduce their export income.


5: I am keenly interested to see what happens to various Global conflicts under a second Trump Presidency. Will they escalate, will they continue, will they calm down? My hope is that we will see a reduction in wars, either in the form of a cease fire or even a negotiated settlement.
Has already talked about removal of support for Ukraine, likely leaving no option but a negotiated settlement ceding territory to Russia, not a great precedent to set, but demonstrates how totally ineffective the UN is.


6: I would like to see the ripples of the US election go to other countries. Here, the UK, Aus etc. showing that one does not have to accept the left-wing a priori positions on issues in order to win Elections.
Much of the world already seems to be drifting in that direction, with the realisation that pouring money down bottomless virtue signalling pits doesn't lead to any meaningful improvement


7: I want to see States rights issues be debated and resolved at the State level.
That lasts until the next federal decree overriding the state decision, and around it goes again.....


8: De-regulation where appropriate.
The problem being defining appropriate. There are individuals and corporations that will take as much as they are able to, without regard for the consequences


9: Restoration of the southern Border. People smuggling is a horrible business and is encouraged by a leaky border.
The stronger the border the more extreme and dangerous the methods used to smuggle people. Migration happens because things are bad where they are coming from, in a lot of cases as a result of US foreign policy, fix that and the migrant problem will reduce itself.


If the Democrats are smart (I doubt it), then since Trump cannot run for a 3rd term, they should stop the Lawfare, stop the impeachment attempts and keep their attacks above board and within the realm of acceptable political discourse - accept the Loss and move on.
With the presidency, senate and congress there's probably very little the dems can do anyway.
Let him have his four years unchallenged, thus giving him nothing to bitch about and nobody else to blame, and the country can sit back and enjoy what the voted for.

[Berries]

Wait until he changes/ignores the rules allowing him to be Supreme Leader and have more than two terms in office.

[HenryDorsetCase]

We like to think we are enlightened, but it wasn't long ago that if you got on a plane and found the pilot was female you might be shocked at the concept and say an extra prayer. You knew your doctor was a man and you wouldn't hire a woman into an executive role to do a man's job.

It's no surprise that there are so few women in their political system of any real power. Much of America seems to be living in the past.

A Great Again past apparently.

I woke feeling disappointed in the American women folk in particular. They had the numbers to sink him.

It takes some clutching to your imaginary moral compass to overlook his very unchristian behaviour and disregard of your gender.

America's problem is the preponderance of religiosity. They were fucked from the start because Puritans. With that comes intolerance, greed, fear of the "other" whatever that is, preponderance of unquestioning obedience, submission to fascism, basically everything that should be anathema in modern society.

You can compare it directly with the Scandinavian countries where there is a much smaller dependence on stone age bullshit, and a corresponding increase in civil society. It really is that simple in my view.

[TheDemonLord]

America's problem is the preponderance of religiosity. They were fucked from the start because Puritans. With that comes intolerance, greed, fear of the "other" whatever that is, preponderance of unquestioning obedience, submission to fascism, basically everything that should be anathema in modern society.

You can compare it directly with the Scandinavian countries where there is a much smaller dependence on stone age bullshit, and a corresponding increase in civil society. It really is that simple in my view.

The Scandinavian countries also have compulsory military service - which tends to increase levels of social cohesion.

[F5 Dave]

America's problem is the preponderance of religiosity. They were fucked from the start because Puritans. With that comes intolerance, greed, fear of the "other" whatever that is, preponderance of unquestioning obedience, submission to fascism, basically everything that should be anathema in modern society.

You can compare it directly with the Scandinavian countries where there is a much smaller dependence on stone age bullshit, and a corresponding increase in civil society. It really is that simple in my view.


Yeah but they somehow managed to deprogram out of that dogma. You will note the common theme of all their flags is the crucifix.

On the other hand they came from having cool God's like Woden (later Odin). So maybe they were open to change.

[F5 Dave]

No Sadly this thread will not end. If he'd lost it may well have, aside his legal comeuppance.

Meanwhile:

In even broader terms, it was seen as a victory for conservative, isolationist forces supported by Russia against a liberal, Western-dominated global order that the Kremlin (and its allies) have been seeking to undermine.

In his first remarks since the election, President Vladimir Putin said Thursday that the West’s post-Cold War monopoly on global power was “irrevocably disappearing,” before going on to praise Trump for behaving “courageously” during an attempt on his life this summer. . .

Translation: My puppet will stay quiet while we do dodgy shit in , for now, quiet areas of the western consciousness, and if he doesn't he may have an accident.

[pritch]

There must be a lot of confused women and blacks in America right now then...

And a lot of confused Hispanics. They voted for Trump in numbers, notwithstanding his policy to deport them. When asked, they thought that Trump's threats did not relate to them personally.

Apparently young black males voted Trump in numbers too, and suburban white woman have always prioritised racism over gender issues.

[pritch]

If nothing else the election result proved again the value of propaganda. The US economy has been going well with full employment, the stock market breaking records etc. Trump following the gospel according to Goebbels worked.

Musk's economic proposals would tank the US economy and consequently cause chaos in the world economy. So too Trump's tariff plan.

Trump is 78, is unwell, unfit, has an unhealthy diet, and will be subject to continual stress. He may not make it through the next four years. Not that the thought of President Vance is exactly reassuring.

[TheDemonLord]

If nothing else the election result proved again the value of propaganda. The US economy has been going well with full employment, the stock market breaking records etc. Trump following the gospel according to Goebbels worked.

Full Employment... Because people have had to take second and third jobs to afford the Biden caused Inflation.

Yes, telling people not to believe their lying eyes works out so well.


Musk's economic proposals would tank the US economy and consequently cause chaos in the world economy. So too Trump's tariff plan.

These are the same 'Economists' that believe Socialism can work and that the US economy was great under Biden.

Suffice to say I do not trust their predictions.


Trump is 78, is unwell, unfit, has an unhealthy diet, and will be subject to continual stress. He may not make it through the next four years. Not that the thought of President Vance is exactly reassuring.

Trump is the same age that Biden was when Biden took office - and you told us, at length, how this was a non-issue (I believe you called it a RWNJ Conspiracy...)

Unwell - I dont think so.
Unfit - seems to have no trouble moving around.
An Unhealthy Diet - maybe, maybe not.

And subject to Continual Stress - so this is more interesting. If you look at how a Presidency typically ages someone - Obama, Clinton, Bush, Tony Blair all spring to mind how they look after their time in office - they have aged about 10 years in the space of 4.

Yet, with Trump - the man seems to thrive on it. What other 78 year old man would do a 3 hour convo without a break, then go do a 2 hour rally.

[R650R]

If nothing else the election result proved again the value of propaganda. The US economy has been going well with full employment, the stock market breaking records etc. Trump following the gospel according to Goebbels worked.

Musk's economic proposals would tank the US economy and consequently cause chaos in the world economy. So too Trump's tariff plan.

Trump is 78, is unwell, unfit, has an unhealthy diet, and will be subject to continual stress. He may not make it through the next four years. Not that the thought of President Vance is exactly reassuring.

Some candid interviews here with truckers paints a different economic picture, and they are the ones who see freight volumes.
More than a few people think any president is just a puppet of the corporations on both sides. The disrespect shown to citizens by letting the clearly deficient Biden stumble on for so long only reinforces that. And Kamala had three years to do stuff of significance but didn’t really.
And all that fear porn about him becoming a dictator well why didn’t he do it last time???
Yes there will be some disruption economically but he’s about doing business and the dust will settle and everything will reach equilibrium agsin



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilhWH6MBWlg

[onearmedbandit]

And a lot of confused Hispanics. They voted for Trump in numbers, notwithstanding his policy to deport them. When asked, they thought that Trump's threats did not relate to them personally.



I didn't realise he was planning to deport legal immigrants.

[TheDemonLord]

I didn't realise he was planning to deport legal immigrants.

Dont you know that according to the Left, No one is illegal, therefore everyone is a Legal Migrant, therefore wanting to deport illegal migrants means they want to deport legal migrants...

[pritch]

I didn't realise he was planning to deport legal immigrants.

I suspect that was meant to be sarcastic but Trump has said he will change the law so as to render legal immigrants illegal. Apart from which, to deport the numbers he is talking legality wouldn't enter into it. A brown face would be enough.

[onearmedbandit]

I suspect that was meant to be sarcastic but Trump has said he will change the law so as to render legal immigrants illegal. Apart from which, to deport the numbers he is talking legality wouldn't enter into it. A brown face would be enough.

Actually it wasn't, I can't say I pay too much attention to other countries policies that don't affect me. I did a quick search on google for "trump to change law to class legal immigrants as illegal" and couldn't find anything specifically relating to that claim (bear in mind I only spent a few minutes digging but I figured it would appear in the first few results). I did find this from the following sources (I make no claim on whether they are valid sources or not).


Trump made plans for mass deportations of undocumented immigrants a central feature of his immigration discussions ahead of securing his second term. He signaled an ambition to carry out what he calls the “largest domestic deportation operation in American history.” That could mean a years-long effort to remove an estimated 11 million people who are in the country without authorization. The Trump Administration aims to leverage expedited removal processes, which allow for rapid deportations without the usual legal hearings.
https://time.com/7171654/donald-trump-immigration-plan-2024/


The promise of mass deportations was a cornerstone of Trump’s campaign and could be a focus for his administration. His stated goal is to remove the estimated 12 million people in the United States illegally, many of whom who were able to enter under the policies of the Biden administration.
https://rollcall.com/2024/11/06/trump-win-opens-door-to-major-shift-in-us-immigration-policies/

I guess that one is aligned to what you are claiming? Once again I don't know the bias of that report but they do state 'illegally' even if under the policies of the previous administration.

There are others that are behind paywalls that talk about his support of legal immigration and work against illegal immigration (Washington Post etc) but as I can't read the full body of the articles they carry no weight. If you can provide a link stating that he plans to deport documented immigrants (or anyone with a brown face) I'm happy to read and learn. I have no skin in the game and no bias either way, but I'm always interested in finding out more about some of these claims.

[R650R]

Strap yourselves in. Next year America will be celebrating 250 years as a country and Trump is planning on having a year long celebration of everything great past present and future for the nation. What a legacy that will be even with his other indiscretions….

“Here's the basic plan:

On day one of his presidency, Donald Trump creates the "Salute to America 250 Task Force," whose sole purpose is to create the biggest birthday bash America has ever seen.

Included in that plan is a one-year celebration involving local and state governments, starting on Memorial Day 2025 and culminating on July 4, 2026.

Also during that time, Trump wants to use the Iowa State Fairgrounds to create a national state fair, showcasing the best achievements (past, present, and future) of every state.

Then he wants to finish the garden of monuments celebrating American heroes that Biden nixed when he took office.

He wants to create a nationwide competition involving high school athletes to celebrate America's future generation.

Trump will invite the leaders and citizens of nations around the world to visit our country to honor this anniversary.

And finally, Trump will ask America's religious communities to pray for our country.

And let's not forget that starting in June of 2026, the FIFA World Cup will be held across 11 American cities: Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Dallas, Houston, Kansas City, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Miami, Boston and New York.

The last World Cup in 2022 attracted 5 billion viewers across the world.

Either one of these events would be amazing in themselves, but together? We're looking at a blowout year America hasn't seen since the Chicago World's Fair of 1893.”

[Dean]

We’ve been through it all — the criticism, the attacks, the challenges, in our lives and on here — but we never backed down.

They said we were wrong. They said we didn’t matter. But look at us now, standing stronger than ever before.

The road wasn’t easy. Two assassination attempts on Trump. They tried to impeach him. The media tried to silence us. They tried to tear us apart. But we kept fighting for what’s right.

This victory is for New Zealand. It’s for the values that have always made this country unique. And it’s a promise for a future where we continue to put our people and traditional values first.

We rise from the ashes

[Berries]

Are you on drugs?

[sugilite]

This victory is for New Zealand. It’s for the values that have always made this country unique. And it’s a promise for a future where we continue to put our people and traditional values first.

This part of your post is a damming indictment on New Zealands education system. New Zealand is not the 51st state of the USA.
No amount of Saturday beersies is going to change that!
My wife, born in the mid south of the USA uses a word that when combined with her southern drawl cracks me up everytime, and I feel it applies perfectly here. "Wackadoodle" :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

This part of your post is a damming indictment on New Zealands education system. New Zealand is not the 51st state of the USA.
No amount of Saturday beersies is going to change that!
My wife, born in the mid south of the USA uses a word that when combined with her southern drawl cracks me up everytime, and I feel it applies perfectly here. "Wackadoodle" :laugh:

Well, at least she hasn't said "Bless your heart"

[pritch]

They tried to impeach him.

They did impeach him. Twice.

[sugilite]

Well, at least she hasn't said "Bless your heart"

She is way too polite to say that and she laughed heartily when I showed her your post. For those not in the know, when a southern belle says "Bless your heart", they are essentially saying fuck you. Tone tells you the depth of the sentiment :laugh:

[Berries]

For those not in the know, when a southern belle says "Bless your heart", they are essentially saying fuck you.
And then they whack your doodle.

[pritch]

Actually it wasn't, I can't say I pay too much attention to other countries policies that don't affect me. I did a quick search on google for "trump to change law to class legal immigrants as illegal" and couldn't find anything specifically relating to that claim


I'm retired I have time to watch online content. You're right there's not a lot seems to have made the mainstream media but he has mentioned various things he wants to review or repeal in the rambling speeches at his rallies or to other groups.

He has recently mentioned again reviewing the law relating to automatic citizenship for people born in the USA. That's ironic because all but one of his own kids are 'anchor babies'.

Review or remove the laws that provide special protected status for people like the Hiatians at Springfield.
“They’re eating the dawgs, they’re eating the cats.” “What about the geese?”

Review or remove the special arrangements for the ‘Dreamers’.

Steven Miller one of his closest advisors on immigration is an extreme hardliner on immigration. He said in an interview he wants no Hispanic immigration at all. Zero.

[onearmedbandit]

He has recently mentioned again reviewing the law relating to automatic citizenship for people born in the USA. That's ironic because all but one of his own kids are 'anchor babies'.



According to this his children would be fine, as would any other children born in the USA with at least one parent who is a US citizen. It is important when making claims that all the facts are reported correctly. Although once again, maybe this source is wrong. Happy to be shown otherwise.


On his first day back in office, Trump has promised to issue an executive order ending the long-standing Constitutional principle that children born in the U.S. are granted citizenship. Trump said he will instruct federal agencies to require that any child born in the U.S. have at least one parent who is a lawful permanent resident or citizen, before they can be issued a passport or Social Security number.

https://time.com/7171654/donald-trump-immigration-plan-2024/

[pritch]

According to this his children would be fine, as would any other children born in the USA with at least one parent who is a US citizen. It is important when making claims that all the facts are reported correctly. Although once again, maybe this source is wrong. Happy to be shown otherwise.



[/url]

That seems correct. As I said, he wants to make legals into illegals. The one parent thing will be new. Previously anyone born in the US automatically had citizenship.

During Trump's last time in the White House Republicans were whinging about 'anchor babies' who when born in the US automatically had citizenship. The mother could then claim residence or citizenship to be with her baby. Broadly speaking all Trump's kids except Tiffany can reasonably be described as anchor babies.

[sugilite]

And then they whack your doodle.
Exactly, and whether they use their soft hand with just the right tension, or a studded baseball bat sets the tone :shifty:

[sugilite]

Trumps deportation will start with a hiss and a roar, then will quietly wind down as they need a certain amount of them to stay to take care of all the sub minimum wage jobs only illegal immigrants fulfill. Fuck all new wall will be built, but border guards will get a large boost in funding.

Buyers remorse will set in for a large bunch of voters when and if the wholesale use of tariffs cut in and they realize it is actually a tax on them. Also, I noticed that speaker christian hypocrite Johnson said they will be making major changes to obamacare in the first few months - which if course tells us that they always did have more than a "concept of a plan" in mind. So watch for many middle class people to lose their health benefits. When governments hide shit, it is not because they think their plans will be well received. Got to start paying those big corporate donors back pronto eh.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/oct/30/mike-johnson-healthcare-trump-harris

Any knob who voted for trump thinking that he cared for the middle class workers is in for a rude shock, especially with musk driving cutting government spending. Can he do it without putting his thumb on the scales in his favor - I'm picking not. I cannot help thinking about how much scifi comes into being in the real world, and there sure is a lot of movies where corporations have replaced governement. Hello President Musk? Time will tell.

Oh, I'm quite sure trump will do his best to sell usps into private hands too. Think of the kickbacks on those contracts.

I see a lot of postmortems online as to why the dems lost. My personal take is trump got a MASSIVE bump when he got charged by brag. And I get why he got charged because he basically got on a mike and bragged about how he did it, everyone else did it so he would be stupid not too. Which if course is akin to saying "I was speeding officer because everyone else is doing it", then uploading a viral video to tictok and going on national tv (like he actually did) stating as such and wondering why all the attention from the law!
Trump is a criminal, and it is a travesty that useless soft cock garland wasted so much time fantasizing he was appeasing gop types that he was being "fair". Fair would of been running the cases through court in a timely manner so the voters had a chance to know one way or the other exactly how honest the guy running for president actually was .
Justice delayed, especially in these cases was justice denied.

So one of two things going to happen with the next trump presidency. He will either basically retire to the golf course and let the project 25 mob run the show, as is the likely agreement to even run him in the first place. Or he will be too egotistical, and attempt to run the whole show himself, where upon he will likely suffer a "surprising" heart attack which everyone will put down to the fat orange lard arse consuming one cheese burger too many. Anyone who thought the 2 previous attempts were masterminded by the left are absolutely in lala land. Professionals will make it look like natural causes every time as it is a lot less disruptive than assassination by shooting in public.

Also, I hope the magas get more house seats so they can do what ever it is that they are going to do unimpeded at least for the first 2 years. I'm sure the maga mob will not squander the chance like those idiots in the NZ labor party did! It also does not leave a blade of grass for them to hide behind when their shitty plans don't work out, or for me to hide behind if they do work out! As I'm a firm believer that this maga mob will just accelerate the transfer of wealth from the middle class to the top post haste, has me being very confidant I won't end up with egg on my face.

Fun fact. tariff pain, healthcare pain and general government service cuts pain, will all be pinned on trump by his own mob in the end. Something for trump to look forward to - that is if that cheese burger does not get him first :laugh:

[Dean]

My wife, born in the mid south of the USA uses a word that when combined with her southern drawl cracks me up everytime, and I feel it applies perfectly here. "Wackadoodle" :laugh:

I’ve got good friends in the Deep South, Mississippi, going over there early next year for a few weeks, real Trump country!

“Wackadoodle” is definitely a more mid south word. More “uptown”, folk further south use a more calloused vocabulary.

[pritch]

I’ve got good friends in the Deep South, Mississippi, going over there early next year for a few weeks, real Trump country!


Interesting choice. I'd almost rather visit Bangladesh. Similar life expectancy, both are third world shit holes. (To use a Trump turn of phrase.)

[TheDemonLord]

Trumps deportation will start with a hiss and a roar, then will quietly wind down as they need a certain amount of them to stay to take care of all the sub minimum wage jobs only illegal immigrants fulfill. Fuck all new wall will be built, but border guards will get a large boost in funding.

I suspect the biggest obstacle will be similar to the UK, remarkably well-funded hordes of 'Human Rights' Lawyers will try and tie up the process in so-much vexatious litigation to put every roadblock and hurdle in place to prevent it.

On one of the Podcasts I listened to, I think it might have been JD Vance talking to Rogan - but there was a story about the whole illegal immigrants working for Billionaires - they said they opposed it - so time will tell.


Buyers remorse will set in for a large bunch of voters when and if the wholesale use of tariffs cut in and they realize it is actually a tax on them.

There will be a lead time, but if the Tariffs are set correctly, it will drive manufacturing back to the US = more jobs = higher demand for labour = wages will rise = growing economy = everyone gets richer.


Any knob who voted for trump thinking that he cared for the middle class workers is in for a rude shock, especially with musk driving cutting government spending. Can he do it without putting his thumb on the scales in his favor - I'm picking not.

So, consider this: The biggest factor in driving Inflation is Government Spending (and money printing...). Inflation has been a huge issue for Middle Class workers, Myself included.

If Musk is successful at curtailing Government spending, even by say 5% - that is huge. Looking at NZ, with the work the National Government has done so far, Interest rates are coming down (tnank fuck!) and prices seem to have somewhat stabilized, now just need to wait for a Pay Rise to get back to where I was before Stalinda fucked everything.

Will Musk put his thumb on the scale - I mean, after seeing what he has done with X - I think he won't. The Radical Left types that were in control of Twitter blocked everyone that they didn't like, the inverse does not seem to be true. This is not the only area I have seen this phenomenon. Trump supporters will happily be friends with Radical Lefties, but Radical Lefties (the Tolerant ones, remember) are intolerant of Trump Supporters.

Musk seems to autistically care about Fairness (as opposed to Equity) - and so I'm hopeful.


I see a lot of postmortems online as to why the dems lost. My personal take is trump got a MASSIVE bump when he got charged by brag. And I get why he got charged because he basically got on a mike and bragged about how he did it, everyone else did it so he would be stupid not too. Which if course is akin to saying "I was speeding officer because everyone else is doing it", then uploading a viral video to tictok and going on national tv (like he actually did) stating as such and wondering why all the attention from the law!
Trump is a criminal, and it is a travesty that useless soft cock garland wasted so much time fantasizing he was appeasing gop types that he was being "fair". Fair would of been running the cases through court in a timely manner so the voters had a chance to know one way or the other exactly how honest the guy running for president actually was .
Justice delayed, especially in these cases was justice denied.

I mean the Democrats acting like a Bannana republic and using Lawfare to go after their political rivals was never going to work out well. I even said as much.

However - that is a drop in the bucket for why they lost.

They Lost, because their policies didn't work.

You had 4 years of Trump, with economic growth, reasonable global stability etc. You had 4 years of Biden with record inflation, increase in global conflict.

Then you have the internal issues with the Democrats - They parachuted Harris into the running after it was no longer tenable to maintain the lie that Biden was Cognitively competent.

Harris would have had to distance herself from the disastrous policies of Biden and outline her plan for the US - however she was between a Rock (The activist wing of the Democrats) and a Hard place (the Voters) - Things like Student debt forgiveness, Conflict in Gaza - to her activist base, she is not doing enough, but to the regular voter, that is always too far.

But I think the biggest issue - is that this time around, Trump and his team (Musk, Thulsi, Vivek, Vance, RFK etc.) went out and talked. Unscripted, at length, on multiple platforms. I am not just talking about Rogan - I saw them on Theo Von, Valuetainment, Shawn Ryan, JBP, Chris Williams etc.

I have not seen or listened to all of these (nor do I intend to) - but not only did that expose them to a potentially un-tapped audience, but more specifically it allowed people to see and hear the person behind the Headline.

It is one thing for the Guardian or NYT to have a Headline that is Trump said XYZ and the source is someone who totally heard it, trust me bro. Whereas these podcasts allowed people to talk to them.

Shawn Ryan (ex Navy Seal and CIA Contractor) - talked to Trump about Foreign Policy.
Rogan talked to Vance about Hallucingens for helping Veterens with PTSD.
Chris talked to Thulsi about how Washington works.

etc.

This humanized the candidates (in a way that the legacy Media would never allow) and furthermore it allowed them the space and bredth to talk about an issue, without requiring 30 second sound bites. On top of that, a Podcast host typically has a finger on the pulse of what things their audience is interested in. Shawn Ryan having an audience that is big on Military issues and Foreign wars, is going to be interested in hearing Trump talk about his Foreign Policy ideas.

Rogan, being Rogan, talks about Drugs :lol:

Harris was nowhere to be seen doing this. She had the invites - and as I have said previously, I would have listened to her on the likes of Rogan. I think the reason why is because her media handlers know that she is not a good speaker and it would make her look bad.


So one of two things going to happen with the next trump presidency. He will either basically retire to the golf course and let the project 25 mob run the show, as is the likely agreement to even run him in the first place. Or he will be too egotistical, and attempt to run the whole show himself, where upon he will likely suffer a "surprising" heart attack which everyone will put down to the fat orange lard arse consuming one cheese burger too many. Anyone who thought the 2 previous attempts were masterminded by the left are absolutely in lala land. Professionals will make it look like natural causes every time as it is a lot less disruptive than assassination by shooting in public.

Good Job RFK is going to sort out the CIA then, isn't it... (this is a Joke...)

I don't think Trump is the type of person to take his hand off the wheel. I think he will run it, but this time with people that believe in his vision.

Musk to cut down government largesse - fantastic idea.
RFK to look into food and drug policies - Imagine if he is right and successful and America gets healthier.

As for Assassinations - Trump is clearly the Main Character and so has Plot Armour...


Also, I hope the magas get more house seats so they can do what ever it is that they are going to do unimpeded at least for the first 2 years. I'm sure the maga mob will not squander the chance like those idiots in the NZ labor party did! It also does not leave a blade of grass for them to hide behind when their shitty plans don't work out, or for me to hide behind if they do work out! As I'm a firm believer that this maga mob will just accelerate the transfer of wealth from the middle class to the top post haste, has me being very confidant I won't end up with egg on my face.

Labour didn't squander their chances though... They did what they set out to do - Attempt to destroy New Zealand.

Excessive regulation always ends up hurting the individual owner/operator more than it does multi-national corporations. And when all those small businesses go under, that leaves an effective Monopoly for the big companies.

Case in point: Covid. Amazon, Netflix, UberEats, McDonalds - they all loved Covid. They could use Legal chicanery to say they were essential businesses and then get 200% increases in profit.

The brick and mortar shop that had been there for 30 years with a small staff of 5? Yeah, they went out of business.

My hope is that the deregulation, protectionism will promote entrepaneurship in the US, drive jobs back to the US, increase competition for labour, driving up wages, reducing inflation and generally making the Middle Class wealthy again.

[1/32 man]

So, consider this: The biggest factor in driving Inflation is Government Spending (and money printing...

Is that what you think? really?

There I was thinking it was the greedy profit driven corporate sector share holders/directors....silly me.
Next time I bump into luxton I will have to have a word about this.

[onearmedbandit]

Is that what you think? really?

There I was thinking it was the greedy profit driven corporate sector share holders/directors....silly me.
Next time I bump into luxton I will have to have a word about this.

Treasury seem to view it as one of the major drivers.

[TheDemonLord]

Is that what you think? really?

There I was thinking it was the greedy profit driven corporate sector share holders/directors....silly me.
Next time I bump into luxton I will have to have a word about this.

It is not 'What I think' - this is a cold hard economic fact.

Everytime there has been a government increasing the supply of Money, there has been inflation. Zimbabwe, Weimar republic, Venezuala etc.

As for the greed part - Imagine you are selling your home, you have two people who have placed bids on it - one for $1.1 Million, the other for $1.3 Million - which Offer do you take?

If it is the Later (which I strongly suspect it would be), then you are just as much a causal part of Inflation as any corporation.

The fact people do not know the actual causes of Inflation is just another example of the Mainstream media tonguing the asshole of Left-wing governments.

[husaberg]

Treasury seem to view it as one of the major drivers.
As far as I can see that article was not written by the Treasury department.


it even says it doesn't reflect the view on the NZ Treasury department.


The economists looked at spending and inflation data and created models to look at which parts of that inflation were driven by demand and which parts were driven by supply.
The research was the work of Treasury economists, but did not represent the official view of the Treasury.

most of the article is a sound bite for Nicola willis
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/government-spending-stoked-inflation-treasury-paper/RF63AMUQC5GRJFI5YN2A4ERZWY/

[TheDemonLord]

As far as I can see that article was not written by the Treasury department.

it even says it doesn't reflect the view on the NZ Treasury department.

most of the article is a sound bite for Nicola willis
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/government-spending-stoked-inflation-treasury-paper/RF63AMUQC5GRJFI5YN2A4ERZWY/

National: The Sky is Blue
Labour: Whilst our experts have advise the Sky is Blue, it is the official position of the Government that they Sky, is in fact, Pink.

[onearmedbandit]

Pointing out that the article wasn't written by the Treasury Department does not mean government spending has no affect on inflation. It's well accepted in economic circles that it is one of the primary factors (fiscal policy). That was just the first response I got on google.

[husaberg]

Pointing out that the article wasn't written by the Treasury Department does not mean government spending has no affect on inflation. It's well accepted in economic circles that it is one of the primary factors (fiscal policy). That was just the first response I got on google.

Yes but pointing out "what you claimed was the viewpoint of treasury" when in fact was clearly not, makes your point that "treasury seem to view it "completely nonfactual.
You would have known this if you read the entire article.

[onearmedbandit]

Yes but pointing out "what you claimed was the viewpoint of treasury" when in fact was clearly not, makes your point that "treasury seem to view it "completely nonfactual.
You would have known this if you read the entire article.

Yup, I did misspeak on that, my bad. It should be obvious I didn't read the article as I used a screenshot of the google search, otherwise I would've linked the article directly. Regardless of my error in saying "Treasury" when I should've said "treasury economists" the point remains. Me misquoting something doesn't make the fact not a fact.

[sugilite]

National: The Sky is Blue
Labour: Whilst our experts have advise the Sky is Blue, it is the official position of the Government that they Sky, is in fact, Pink.How about a real world example. 2017 - NIWA these rivers are polluted and not swimable. National - we just lowered the standard and they are now swimable, hurrah!

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

[TheDemonLord]

How about a real world example. 2017 - NIWA these rivers are polluted and not swimable. National - we just lowered the standard and they are now swimable, hurrah!

Sent from my CPH2499 using Tapatalk

Is this what you are referring to (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/330571/new-swimmable-standard-'less-stringent'-niwa)

It is still touger than the EU regulations on E.Coli specifically and given the officiousness of the EU - that suggests it is more than safe).

This will sound callous - but when I hear Kiwis complain about swimmable waters, it sounds like someone complaining that they have paired the wrong Cavier with the wrong Champagne.

[1/32 man]

Doing a bit of a Deeeman here....couldnt see much reference to Government spending causing inflation but I only looked at two links.



Inflation: What Causes It, and When Will it Subside? – AIER

aier.org
https://www.aier.org
American Institute for Economic Research - Since 1933. AIER Daily Economy News - Integrity, Research, and Principle.
‎AIER Events · ‎About AIER · ‎Donate Today
Causes of Inflation | Explainer | Education | RBA
More jobs and higher wages increase household incomes and lead to a rise in consumer spending, further increasing aggregate demand and the scope for firms to increase the prices of their goods and services. When this happens across a large number of businesses and sectors, this leads to an increase in inflation.

What is the main cause of inflation in NZ?
In general, inflation occurs when demand for goods and services in the economy is outpacing supply. This leads to widespread shortages of labour and materials. For example, when lots of people want to build a house, it becomes hard to source materials and construction workers, so building costs increase.16 Oct 2024

[TheDemonLord]

Doing a bit of a Deeeman here....couldnt see much reference to Government spending causing inflation but I only looked at two links.



Inflation: What Causes It, and When Will it Subside? – AIER

aier.org
https://www.aier.org
American Institute for Economic Research - Since 1933. AIER Daily Economy News - Integrity, Research, and Principle.
‎AIER Events · ‎About AIER · ‎Donate Today
Causes of Inflation | Explainer | Education | RBA
More jobs and higher wages increase household incomes and lead to a rise in consumer spending, further increasing aggregate demand and the scope for firms to increase the prices of their goods and services. When this happens across a large number of businesses and sectors, this leads to an increase in inflation.

What is the main cause of inflation in NZ?
In general, inflation occurs when demand for goods and services in the economy is outpacing supply. This leads to widespread shortages of labour and materials. For example, when lots of people want to build a house, it becomes hard to source materials and construction workers, so building costs increase.16 Oct 2024

All of that is correct, but it is missing the initial cause - what causes demand for goods and services to increase...

There are some non-governmental factors that can cause this, but the biggest one is the Government printing money to pay for things it otherwise couldn't afford which leads to the increase in demand (and then the rest of your statement is correct)

[pritch]

As far as I can see that article was not written by the Treasury department.
it even says it doesn't reflect the view on the NZ Treasury department.


But the comment is basically correct. During the post Covid inflation there were repeated accusations that US corporations were using the inflation as an excuse to boost their profits. It'd be surprising if companies here were not doing that too.

So basically you are all right.