Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[pritch]

There is an outbreak of an Ebola variant in Tanzania. The Tanzanian government at first tried to hide it and denied it. Hardly encouraging. If that gets into the US we're all in trouble. Trump has muzzled the CDC and if Marburg arrives in the USA when he finally acknowledges the threat he'll be full of such wisdom as that it will magically disappear when the weather warms up. Ebola is the stuff of nightmares and it's potentially only one jet flight from Africa to the US away.

[pritch]

In case you thought Trumps plan to deport illegal immigrant criminals wasn't just about getting rid of people with brown faces...

https://azmirror.com/2025/01/24/reports-of-navajo-people-being-detained-in-immigration-sweeps-sparks-concern-from-tribal-leaders/

[nerrrd]

Now, to be clear - I have zero dog in this fight - but there is a point to be made - the Left think they can rename places arbitrarily, especially in regards to indigenous names - So Trump is doing the same, but from his view of America First.

Also - Colombia seems to have bowed the Knee and the flights are landing.

Of course Colombia have bent the knee. They would have done so if this had been handled more diplomatically as well, just without the same entertainment (propaganda?) value.

Renaming places arbitrarily is more about propaganda than anything else, no matter who's doing it. It's also a great way to waste time and money.

[TheDemonLord]

Of course Colombia have bent the knee. They would have done so if this had been handled more diplomatically as well, just without the same entertainment (propaganda?) value.

If you read the Colombian presidents response to Trump, it is very clear that overt force was needed and a very public capitulation.


Renaming places arbitrarily is more about propaganda than anything else, no matter who's doing it. It's also a great way to waste time and money.

I partially agree, which is why the Left have been doing it for ages...

It is, however, funny that it is only wrong when Trump is doing it.

[nerrrd]

If you read the Colombian presidents response to Trump, it is very clear that overt force was needed and a very public capitulation.



I partially agree, which is why the Left have been doing it for ages...

It is, however, funny that it is only wrong when Trump is doing it.

Or, to look at it another way, he was provoked into making an (admittedly) rambling, incoherent and unwise public response because President Trump put him in an embarrassing situation in full view of his citizenry (and the world)?

[TheDemonLord]

Or, to look at it another way, he was provoked into making an (admittedly) rambling, incoherent and unwise public response because President Trump put him in an embarrassing situation in full view of his citizenry (and the world)?

I dont think it is his Citizenry, whose embarresment mattered:

It is the Left wing Globalist philosophy.

In the UK - there has been long calls to secure the Border, turn back Illegal Migrants etc. and certain Lefty groups (NGOs, Media, Human Rights Lawyers etc.) have all stymied this in a myriad of ways - and they have all said that this couldnt be done etc.

Trump started to do it, so the Colombian President (who believes in these Left Wing ideas) tried to oppose him... Trump put the boot down and showed the world that actually No, all you need to do is tell those Lefty groups to get bent and do it anyway - and much to no ones surprise: It works!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Of course Colombia have bent the knee. They would have done so if this had been handled more diplomatically as well, just without the same entertainment (propaganda?) value.

Renaming places arbitrarily is more about propaganda than anything else, no matter who's doing it. It's also a great way to waste time and money.

and shift focus from other shit. couple that with the implosion of actual news and reportage, and we are witnessing the fall of empire. Instead of playing the fiddle we are all scrolling on our phones.

[nerrrd]

I dont think it is his Citizenry, whose embarresment mattered:

It is the Left wing Globalist philosophy.

In the UK - there has been long calls to secure the Border, turn back Illegal Migrants etc. and certain Lefty groups (NGOs, Media, Human Rights Lawyers etc.) have all stymied this in a myriad of ways - and they have all said that this couldnt be done etc.

Trump started to do it, so the Colombian President (who believes in these Left Wing ideas) tried to oppose him... Trump put the boot down and showed the world that actually No, all you need to do is tell those Lefty groups to get bent and do it anyway - and much to no ones surprise: It works!

But in both cases, the UK and the US governments have always had the soft power to do so. In both cases until now, their respective governments have chosen not to exercise it – for whatever political reason, left, right or indifferent.

President Trump has now demonstrated that he's going to exercise that soft power in a way which makes it clear he's not interested in sparing the blushes of those on the other end of it. That's up to him, he has the soft power to do pretty much whatever he likes, but to the rest of the world, it looks like bullying. What's the advice the average MAGA parent gives to their child when someone starts bullying them at school?

Diplomacy exists for a reason, it's not there by accident – it's taken 1000s of years and a few civilisations to realise that presenting deals like this in such a way that both sides look like they're winning creates a much more stable international environment. In my opinion.

[pritch]

It seems the future of Trump's vaunted Stargate may not be as bright today as it seemed only yesterday. The emergence of a vastly less expensive open source AI alternative from China has rocked the markets.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2025/01/27/tech-stocks-on-track-for-12-trillion-drop-amid-deepseek-buzz/

[Pursang]

...... Trump put the boot down and showed the world that actually No, all you need to do is tell those Lefty groups to get bent and do it anyway - and much to no ones surprise: It works!

It works? If you think a 50% tariff war is a win!

[TheDemonLord]

But in both cases, the UK and the US governments have always had the soft power to do so. In both cases until now, their respective governments have chosen not to exercise it – for whatever political reason, left, right or indifferent.

Okay, hear me out - People have been crying out for this to be done for the last 20 or so years - and it has not been done.

You are correct that the respective Governments have chosen not to exercise it - there is a question there as to why and the answer is most interesting.


President Trump has now demonstrated that he's going to exercise that soft power in a way which makes it clear he's not interested in sparing the blushes of those on the other end of it. That's up to him, he has the soft power to do pretty much whatever he likes, but to the rest of the world, it looks like bullying. What's the advice the average MAGA parent gives to their child when someone starts bullying them at school?

It does not look like Bullying to me, it looks like someone enforcing boundaries that are reasonable and normal:

This is our Country, we get to choose who we accept as permanent Residents or Citizens, if you are here illegally, you will be removed and if you are here illegally and commit Crimes, you will be unceremoniously removed.

People are trying to complain that this is somehow wrong and Trump is simply not kowtowing to the Wailing and Gnashing of teeth.

Furthermore it sends a very clear message to all other countries - You will enforce your own borders or we will do it for you in a manner that you may not like.


Diplomacy exists for a reason, it's not there by accident – it's taken 1000s of years and a few civilisations to realise that presenting deals like this in such a way that both sides look like they're winning creates a much more stable international environment. In my opinion.

Sometimes that is the correct thing to do.
Sometimes the correct thing to do is to park an Aircraft carrier off the coast in International waters and ask if they want to find out.

[sugilite]

Lets just ignore that Colombia has been accepting planes of returned migrants and criminals from the USA for many, many years(frustratingly I could not find the article about that I read yesterday, it has been something to the tune of 124 flights since the obama/bush era.) It was trumps stunts using military planes and handcuffs etc that the President of Colombia had the issue with. Just trump being a showman cunt.

In breaking news, Tulsi Gabbard has been found in direct communication with Putin. Disgustingly She has passed over lots of sensitive secrets directly to him. Treason charges to come.

[TheDemonLord]

Lets just ignore that Colombia has been accepting planes of returned migrants and criminals from the USA for many, many years(frustratingly I could not find the article about that I read yesterday, it has been something to the tune of 124 flights since the obama/bush era.) It was trumps stunts using military planes and handcuffs etc that the President of Colombia had the issue with. Just trump being a showman cunt.

Okay - Where in his Statement does he say that:



Trump, I don't really like travelling to the US. It's a bit boring, but I confess that there are some commendable things. I like going to the Black neighborhoods of Washington, where I saw a fight in the US capital between Blacks and Latinos with barricades, which seemed like nonsense to me, because they should join together.

I confess that I like Walt Whitman and Paul Simon and Noam Chomsky and Miller.

I confess that Sacco and Vanzetti, who have my blood, are memorable in the history of the USA and I follow them. They were murdered by labor leaders in the electric chair, by the fascists who are within the USA as well as within my country.

I don't like your oil, Trump. It's going to wipe out the human species because of greed. Maybe one day, with a glass of whiskey that I accept, despite my gastritis, we can talk frankly about this, but it's difficult because you consider me part of an inferior race and I'm not, nor is any Colombian.

So, if you know someone who is stubborn, that's me, period. You can try to carry out a coup with your economic strength and your arrogance, like they did with Allende. But I will die true to my principles, I resisted torture and I resist you. I don't want slavers next in Colombia, we already had many and we freed ourselves. What I want next in Colombia are lovers of freedom. If you can't join me, I'll go elsewhere. Colombia is the heart of the world, and you didn't understand that, this is the land of the yellow butterflies, of the beauty of Remedios, but also of the colonels like Aureliano Buendía, of which I am one, perhaps the last.

You will kill me, but I will survive in my people, which lives, before yours, in the Americas. We are peoples of the winds, the mountains, the Caribbean Sea and of freedom.

You don't like our freedom, okay. I don't shake hands with White slavers. I shake hands with the White libertarian heirs of Lincoln and the Black and White farm boys of the USA, at whose graves I cried and prayed on a battlefield, which I reached after walking the mountains of Italian Tuscany and after being saved from Covid.

They are the United States, and before them I kneel, before no one else.

Overthrow me, Mr. President, and the Americas and humanity will respond.

Colombia now stops looking north, it looks at the world. Our blood comes from the blood of the Caliphate of Cordoba, the civilization of that time, of the Roman Latins of the Mediterranean, the civilization of that time, who founded the republic, democracy in Athens; our blood comes from the Black resistance fighters turned into slaves by you. Colombia is the first free territory of America, before Washington, [before] of all America, and I take refuge in its African songs.

My land is made up of goldsmiths who worked in the time of the Egyptian pharaohs and of the first artists in the world in Chiribiquete.

You will never rule us. You're opposed to the warrior who rode our lands, shouting freedom, whose name is (Simon) Bolívar.

Our people are somewhat fearful, somewhat timid, they are naive and kind, loving, but they will know how to win the Panama Canal, which you took from us with violence. Two hundred heroes from all of Latin America lie in Bocas del Toro, today's Panama, formerly Colombia, which you murdered.

I raise a flag and as (Jorge Eliecer) Gaitán said, even if it remains alone, it will continue to be raised with the Latin American dignity that is the dignity of America, which your great-grandfather did not know, and mine did, Mr. President, an immigrant in the USA.

Your blockade does not scare me, because Colombia, besides being the country of beauty, is the heart of the world. I know that you love beauty as I do, do not disrespect it and it will give its sweetness to you.

FROM TODAY ON, COLOMBIA IS OPEN TO THE ENTIRE WORLD, WITH OPEN ARMS, WE ARE BUILDERS OF FREEDOM, LIFE AND HUMANITY.

I see nothing about Military planes or handcuffs. I do, however, see lots of references to leftist talking points - Calling everyone you dont like Fascists, Just Stop Oil etc.


In breaking news, Tulsi Gabbard has been found in direct communication with Putin. Disgustingly She has passed over lots of sensitive secrets directly to him. Treason charges to come.

Sauce?

[TheDemonLord]

It works? If you think a 50% tariff war is a win!

Yes, it did work.

The people were deported.

All of the supposed reasons why Deportation couldnt work evaporated like a fart in the wind when faced with a determined political will to carry out the policy(s) that he was elected on.

And yes, if that includes threatining a 50% tariff, so be it - Trump raised the stakes, Colombia folded.

[pritch]

It works? If you think a 50% tariff war is a win!

Yeah it's all smoke and mirrors. There were 475 flights returning illegal immigrants to Colombia under Biden. In the interests of propaganda there is currently a frenzy of activity aimed at producing exciting video clips for his educationally subnormal supporters. There are clips of armed troops rushing to the border, military helicopters patrolling, and then we had huge military transports attempting to fly 80 people in handcuffs to Bogota at vast expense. Shame that all that expense was for nothing.

A return to normal charter flights will simply mean business as usual except that Trump has manufactured some exciting footage.

Meanwhile the orange crop which should be mid harvest is still hanging on trees because the undocumented workers who do the work are frightened to appear. Apparently most US agriculture relies on undocumented workers. Like Trump's golf clubs.

[sugilite]

Okay - Where in his Statement does he say that:
On X before the one you cherry picked to suit your point ;-)

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20p36e62gyo

But President Petro appeared to object to the return of deportees on military rather than civilian flights - and to the way the migrants may be treated on those military flights.

In his posts on X, Petro referenced a news video showing migrants deported from the US to Brazil, who had been handcuffed and had their feet restrained during the deportation flight.



I see nothing about Military planes or handcuffs. I do, however, see lots of references to leftist talking points - Calling everyone you dont like Fascists, Just Stop Oil etc.
Well if the dicktators henchmens heil hitler saluting hat fits :laugh:


Sauce?
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[pritch]

Some of the Jan 6ers Trump pardoned might have used their time better. One was almost immediately arrested and sent back to prison. In Indiana another got into an altercation with police which resulted in him being shot dead.

[1/32 man]

It is the Left wing Globalist philosophy.


I thought globalism was the work of rightwing dimshits but maybe I am getting confused with Populism which is definitely a right wing thing.


Okay, hear me out
nope

[onearmedbandit]

Some of the Jan 6ers Trump pardoned might have used their time better. One was almost immediately arrested and sent back to prison. In Indiana another got into an altercation with police which resulted in him being shot dead.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[TheDemonLord]

On X before the one you cherry picked to suit your point ;-)

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20p36e62gyo

But President Petro appeared to object to the return of deportees on military rather than civilian flights - and to the way the migrants may be treated on those military flights.

In his posts on X, Petro referenced a news video showing migrants deported from the US to Brazil, who had been handcuffed and had their feet restrained during the deportation flight.

Okay, Fair - I just saw his full statement on the matter.

However, one has to point out... Complaining about Criminals being handcuffed... Seems a little bit... performative, doesnt it.




Oh hohoho -none required! You see, I have just become the latest subscribing member of the new movement in forum posting and debate that is........ "TRUMBASTIC".
So remember - it is not lying or grossly exaggerating - it is being trumbastic! I will give you a demo
They are eating the pets!
Tariffs are not taxes!
Inject yourself with bleach!
Words don't matter!

No need to post pesky fact checking links, or take any notice of facts at all really - the savings in time using trumbastic are incredible!!!
But wait, there's more. With each premium subscription to trumbastic - you get free extended deadlines on any bullshit you can come up with! Not having the burden of responsibility for ones own words is so unbelievably fucking liberating!!!! You Won't even need concepts of a plan now - WEeeeeeeeeee!

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To be fair, its not that I wouldnt sell to Marxists.... It is just they dont have their own money to pay for anything...

[TheDemonLord]

I thought globalism was the work of rightwing dimshits but maybe I am getting confused with Populism which is definitely a right wing thing.

Populism is not on the Left-Right Spectrum.

When I say Globalism - the context I am referring to is a very specific type of person, often University educated, middle class who believes the world would be a perfect place if everyone acted as they did.

They sincerely believe that you can take someone out of essentially a tribalistic society, insert them into a modern democracy and they will immediately see the error of their ways and adopt western values of Liberty, Equality etc.

The Left-wing aspect of this theory comes from wanting to break down borders and categories. If I create a category for something - then necessarily there will be things inside the category and things outside the category. If that leads to a disparate outcome (either real or imagined) - then that must be due to discrimination and therefore to get rid of discrimination, we must abolish all categorization.

Yes, there is a right wing movement that is opposed to this sort of view point.


nope

So far, Trump seems to be doing what is needed - so it is less hear me out - but more - let us see the proof in the pudding.

[sugilite]

Okay, Fair - I just saw his full statement on the matter.

However, one has to point out... Complaining about Criminals being handcuffed... Seems a little bit... performative, doesnt it.
That is the beauty of trumbastic, every migrant is a criminal! Though I'm sure closer to the truth would be similar to the trump administration to being too lazy to vet which jan 6th convict to release, thus any Colombian illegal immigrant at all would have been snapped up for those flights with handcuffs applied. Remember, it is not actually technically a crime to be in the USA without the right papers.



To be fair, its not that I wouldnt sell to Marxists.... It is just they dont have their own money to pay for anything...

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[TheDemonLord]

That is the beauty of trumbastic, every migrant is a criminal! Though I'm sure closer to the truth would be similar to the trump administration to being too lazy to vet which jan 6th convict to release, thus any Colombian illegal immigrant at all would have been snapped up for those flights with handcuffs applied. Remember, it is not actually technically a crime to be in the USA without the right papers.

I mean, every Illegal Migrant is a Criminal.

Because whilst it might not be a crime to be in the USA without the right papers, it is a crime to illegally cross the border and it is illegal to overstay a Visa or be present without a visa.

However - they are going after people with Criminal convictions in the US - so yeah, they are Criminals.

As for Jan 6th - Someone who was held for 3-4 years on effectively political charges, without trial... Gee I wonder why someone like that might have a wee bit of a Grudge against the Government...

[Hairymcsweary]

I have tried to stay out of this thread, but reading the cheering for the orange buffoon "winning" against Columbia when the facts are the opposite is doing my head in. Below is a copy of a post from Heather Cox Richardson with sources. Look her up, she has helped me to understand the cesspool that is American politics. Sources are posted below as well. Sorry for the wall of text.

January 27, 2025 (Monday)
Yesterday, President Donald Trump began a trade war with Colombia after that country’s president refused to permit two U.S. military airplanes full of deportees to land in Colombia. As Regina Garcia Cano and Astrid Suárez of the Associated Press pointed out, Colombia and the U.S. had an existing agreement for deportations under former president Joe Biden, and it accepted 475 deportation flights from 2020 to 2024, accepting 124 flights in 2024 alone. But the Biden administration used commercial and charter flights, while as national security analyst Juliette Kayyem noted, Trump used a military plane that arrived unannounced.
As Tim Naftali of Columbia University’s School of International and Public Affairs explained: “If a foreign country tries to land its military planes—except in an emergency—without an existing agreement that is an infringement of sovereignty.” Colombia rejected the military planes without prior authorization and offered the use of its presidential plane instead.
Colombia also asked the U.S. to provide notice and decent treatment for its people, an issue that had been raised and resolved in 2023 after migrants arrived in hand and foot cuffs. Colombian president Gustavo Petro noted that the U.S. had committed that it would guarantee dignified conditions for the repatriation of migrants. The plane of migrants landed in Honduras, where Colombia sent its presidential plane to pick them up.
Trump announced that Colombia’s “denial of these flights has jeopardized the National Security and Public Safety of the United States,” and slapped a 25% tariff on products from Colombia, which include about $6 billion of crude petroleum, $1.8 billion of coffee, and $1.6 billion of cut flowers. In addition, he said, the U.S. would revoke the visas of all Colombian “Government Officials, and all Allies and Supporters.” He promptly deported Colombian staff members of the World Bank who were working for international diplomatic organizations in the U.S., and canceled visa appointments at Colombia’s U.S. Embassy.
Rather than backing down, President Petro threatened to levy a retaliatory tariff on U.S. products. Colombia imports 96.7% of the corn it feeds its livestock from the U.S., putting Colombia in the top five export markets for U.S. corn. According to a letter written by a bipartisan group of lawmakers eager to protect that trade, led by Senator Todd Young (R-IN), in 2023 the U.S. exported more than 4 million metric tons of corn to Colombia, which translated to $1.14 billion in sales. “American farmers cannot afford to lose such a vital export market,” the lawmakers wrote, “especially when access to the top U.S. corn export market, Mexico, is already at risk.”
By this morning the economic crisis appeared to be over, although U.S. visa restrictions apparently remain. With prior authorization and better treatment of migrants, Colombia is willing to accept the migrant flights. The White House declared victory, saying: “Today’s events make clear to the world that America is respected again. President Trump will continue to fiercely protect our nation's sovereignty, and he expects all other nations of the world to fully cooperate in accepting the deportation of their citizens illegally present in the United States.”
The administration’s handling of the situation with Colombia reveals that their power depends on convincing people to ignore reality and instead to believe in the fantasy world Trump dictates.
White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt announced yesterday morning that “[d]eportation flights have begun.” In fact, nothing is “beginning.” In 2024, Colombia accepted on average more than two U.S. flights of migrants a week. And, as immigration scholar Austin Kocher noted, “everyone on this deportation flight was arrested and detained by the Biden administration.”
Over the past four years, Trump and MAGA Republicans repeatedly insisted that Biden had maintained “open borders,” while in fact, what the administration did was to try to address a situation made worse by the coronavirus pandemic.
As Katie Tobin of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace explains, before the coronavirus pandemic, Venezuela, where the economy was particularly bad under rising authoritarian Nicolás Maduro, sent migrants abroad. By June 2022, 6 million Venezuelans had fled their country; by September 2024, that number was 7.7 million. South American governments welcomed the Venezuelan migrants and others, including Haitians fleeing their country’s political chaos.
But as economies collapsed after the coronavirus crisis, Tobin explains, migrant populations that had settled in South American countries were forced out. From 2019 to 2021, Colombia’s per capita gross domestic product fell 4.6%; Peru’s, 5.3%; Ecuador’s, 2.8%; Brazil’s, 11.7%; and Venezuela’s, 20%. As the U.S. economy grew by 8.38%, Canada’s grew by 13.1%, and Mexico’s dropped only by 0.7%, migrants headed north. In September 2021, when 15,000 Haitians who had originally migrated to Brazil arrived at the U.S. border with Mexico, countries throughout the hemisphere realized that they needed a new regional approach to migration.
After nine months of negotiations, 21 countries announced that they had created a new migration pact for the Western Hemisphere. It provided economic support for Latin American countries that were original destinations for migrants, expanded formal pathways for immigration, and increased border security across the region.
Canada and Mexico were the first countries to buy into the new agreement. The U.S. turned next to strong ally Colombia, which agreed in March 2022, after which Vice President Kamala Harris brought on board Caribbean countries. By June 10, when the Los Angeles Declaration on Migration and Protection was announced, twenty-one nations had signed on. U.N. observers were present to demonstrate their support.
The Biden administration insisted that countries begin immediate action, and they did. Tobin notes that Belize, Costa Rica, Ecuador, Panama, and Peru have made sweeping new offers of legal status to hundreds of thousands of migrants already living in their countries, while Colombia has offered legal status to 2 million Venezuelans and Brazil has welcomed more than 500,000. Mexico and Guatemala have offered legal pathways to workers.
Canada, Costa Rica, Colombia, Ecuador, Guatemala, Spain, and the U.S. launched a virtual platform to enable migrants to apply for admission remotely. When Mexico agreed to accept Venezuelans who had crossed into the U.S. unlawfully and at the same time the U.S. announced a legal pathway for 24,000 Venezuelans, border crossings dropped 90% within a week. Biden and Mexican president Andrés Manuel López Obrador expanded that initiative to include Cubans, Haitians, and Nicaraguans.
By 2023, border arrests had fallen by about half. Although Congress failed to pass a strong bipartisan measure to increase border security and fund immigration courts, arrests fell by half again after Biden in June 2024 issued a proclamation that barred migrants from being granted asylum when U.S. officials deemed the border was overwhelmed. By the end of Biden’s term, unlawful border crossings had plummeted to lows that hadn’t been seen since June 2020.
There are new challenges to managing migration as wars, climate change, and economic pressures push migrants out of various parts of Africa and out of China. Many of those migrants are finding their way to Latin America and from there to the U.S. The U.N. Refugee Agency estimates that 117 million people were displaced by the end of 2023.
Trump won election in part by vowing to shut down immigration, and as soon as he took office he canceled the CBP One app, the virtual platform that allowed migrants to apply for asylum. During the campaign, he vowed to deport those migrants he claimed were criminals, which many interpreted to mean he would only remove those who had committed violent crimes (which the U.S. has always done). But in his first term, Trump’s people considered anyone who entered the U.S. outside of immigration law to be a criminal, and this appears to be the definition his people are using now.
Daily deportation raids in which U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents arrested a few hundred people in sweeps began almost as soon as Trump took office. Josh Campbell, Andy Rose, and Nick Valencia of CNN reported that the federal government has flooded the media with video and photos of agents in tactical gear, their vests bearing the words “Police ICE” and “Homeland Security” as they lead individuals in handcuffs. The journalists report that this is not an accident: agents were told to have their agency names clearly displayed for the press.
The presence of television talk show host Dr. Phil (McGraw) with an ICE team in Chicago reinforces the sense that these arrests are designed for the cameras. So does yesterday’s report by Nick Miroff and Maria Sacchetti of the Washington Post that Trump is disappointed with the sweeps so far and has directed officials to ramp up arrests aggressively, providing quotas for ICE field offices. Today, new secretary of defense Pete Hegseth said the department will “shift” to “the defense of the territorial integrity of the United States of America at the southern border.”
Yesterday’s spat with Colombia’s president enabled Trump to declare victory, but Colombia has been the top U.S. ally in Latin America, a close partner in combating drug trafficking and managing migration. That relationship, which has taken years of careful cultivation, is now threatened.
Will Freeman of the Council on Foreign Relations, a think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy, posted: “I can’t think of many *worse* strategic blunders for the U.S., as it competes w/ China, than going nuclear against its oldest strategic ally & last big country in S. America where it enjoys a trade advantage…. Trump certainly expects that b[ecause] 1/3 of Colombian exports go to the U.S. Petro will be forced to back down. But Petro seems to welcome the fight & has already signaled wishes to deepen ties w/ China. Colombia will lose partnership on security it badly needs. Only China stands to gain from this.”
Indeed, China’s ambassador to Colombia promptly noted that “we are at the best moment of our diplomatic relations between China and Colombia, which are now 45 years old.”
Meanwhile, according to former ambassador Luis G. Moreno, the Trump administration has shut down 2,100 courses in the premier training facility for State Department foreign service officers, ostensibly because they are too associated with diversity, equity, and inclusion. Moreno adds: “Dismantling of a professional diplomatic corps is underway.”

Sources:
https://www.aljazeera.com/.../colombia-resumes-removal...
https://thehill.com/.../5107874-colombia-petro-us-trump.../
https://www.legistorm.com/.../young-leads-effort-to...
https://carnegieendowment.org/.../americas-migration-los...
https://apnews.com/.../immigration-biden-trump-cbp...
https://apnews.com/.../biden-asylum-migration-immigration...
https://www.justia.com/.../criminal-grounds-for-deportation/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../ice-arrests-raids.../
https://www.cnn.com/.../immigration-raids.../index.html
https://www.cnn.com/.../colombia-tariffs-trump.../index.html
https://newrepublic.com/post/190709/ice-arrest-quota-trump
https://www.newsweek.com/us-import-goods-colombia-oil...
https://www.pbs.org/.../trump-and-colombias-president...
https://www.nytimes.com/.../us/politics/hegseth-defense.html
https://www.theguardian.com/.../trump-cbp-one-app...
https://www.nytimes.com/.../trump-visas-colombia-world...
https://www.npr.org/.../chinese-migrants-southern-border
https://apnews.com/.../colombia-visas-deportation-flights...

[pritch]

I like sugilite's "Trumbastic". Orwell is even more appropriate with regard to Musk's Sieg Heil salute. "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

The people who voted for Trump to get cheaper eggs must be confused. Well, even more confused than normal. The price of eggs and virtually everything else has shot up under Trump. They are now being told that paying high prices is the most patriotic thing they can do. It would be hilarious if it wasn't actually sinister.

[TheDemonLord]

I have tried to stay out of this thread, but reading the cheering for the orange buffoon "winning" against Columbia when the facts are the opposite is doing my head in. Below is a copy of a post from Heather Cox Richardson with sources. Look her up, she has helped me to understand the cesspool that is American politics. Sources are posted below as well. Sorry for the wall of text.

Sources:
https://www.aljazeera.com/.../colombia-resumes-removal...
https://thehill.com/.../5107874-colombia-petro-us-trump.../
https://www.legistorm.com/.../young-leads-effort-to...
https://carnegieendowment.org/.../americas-migration-los...
https://apnews.com/.../immigration-biden-trump-cbp...
https://apnews.com/.../biden-asylum-migration-immigration...
https://www.justia.com/.../criminal-grounds-for-deportation/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/.../ice-arrests-raids.../
https://www.cnn.com/.../immigration-raids.../index.html
https://www.cnn.com/.../colombia-tariffs-trump.../index.html
https://newrepublic.com/post/190709/ice-arrest-quota-trump
https://www.newsweek.com/us-import-goods-colombia-oil...
https://www.pbs.org/.../trump-and-colombias-president...
https://www.nytimes.com/.../us/politics/hegseth-defense.html
https://www.theguardian.com/.../trump-cbp-one-app...
https://www.nytimes.com/.../trump-visas-colombia-world...
https://www.npr.org/.../chinese-migrants-southern-border
https://apnews.com/.../colombia-visas-deportation-flights...

Welcome to the fray!

So, to answer your first part - why are people cheering - well it is simple:

There is a number of prevailing Left-Wing narratives that have been forced into the public conscious artificially. Now, people that who arent aware of the ulterior motive of these narratives are willing to give them a try.

This happened under Biden in the US, under Stalinda in NZ, Trudeu in Canada etc.

The ideas were tried and they didnt work. Not only did they merely 'Not Work' - they actively made things worse. People have voted against this as a repudiation of these ideas - and seeing them get rolled back, repealed and revoked does garner cheering.

Now, onto re-posting someone elses work, there is much in there to disagree with - but arguing with ideas that arent your own is not fun for me.

However - I want you to take a critical look at the list of sources - Do you see any right wing or even just right leaning sources in there? I can see CNN (left), WaPo and NYT (Left), The Guardian (Explicitly Left), AP News, NPR, New Republic (Left Leaning) - I could go on, but I think the point is made.

I do not know this author, nor do I particularly care to - as what I am reading is the one-step removed press release from the Democrat party.

[sugilite]

As for Jan 6th - Someone who was held for 3-4 years on effectively political charges, without trial... Gee I wonder why someone like that might have a wee bit of a Grudge against the Government...

More on this in another post I'm going to make.
In the meantime I'm throwing out a bone for you, I did not intend for you to watch the other video I posted, it was more the title/subject of the video. In future when I'm not using trumbastic I will post links to articles instead. For the record, I stopped taking notice of mainstream media except just stuff (I know leans left) and the Guardian uk - also left but apart from a few opinion pieces, more balanced than most. I've not been able to find any right ;leaning media channels that don't have me looking for a chunder bucket. Feel free to make suggestions if you know of any. The straw that broke the camels back for me on mainstream was how they all pretended they did not have the manifesto of the chap who shot the SEO. All mainstream media is owned by self interested billionaires. Fuck em.
Lots of talk about trump and fascism dicktater stuff. Be patient with this video, as it will have you pointing at your screen and shouting "yes, yes that, that multiple times. Incidentally I think John Stewart would make a brilliant president, much better than the last lot have been. Very impressed with his work with securing funding for 911 first responders ongoing support. Anyways, here is that video, and I recommend the left leaning kb folk watch this too.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byg8VZdKK88


A video showing Stewart in serious mode fighting for 911 first responder rights. John Stewart for US President 2028

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uYpDC3SRpM

[TheDemonLord]

In the meantime I'm throwing out a bone for you, I did not intend for you to watch the other video I posted, it was more the title/subject of the video. In future when I'm not using trumbastic I will post links to articles instead. For the record, I stopped taking notice of mainstream media except just stuff (I know leans left) and the Guardian uk - also left but apart from a few opinion pieces, more balanced than most. I've not been able to find any right ;leaning media channels that don't have me looking for a chunder bucket. Feel free to make suggestions if you know of any. The straw that broke the camels back for me on mainstream was how they all pretended they did not have the manifesto of the chap who shot the SEO. All mainstream media is owned by self interested billionaires. Fuck em.

The Guardian Balanced?!? They are explicitly (from their inception) a Left-wing outlet.

Now, I will say this - Whilst I think most Guardian articles are steaming piles of.... The fact that they are honest that they have a Left Bias is somewhat refreshing.

As for Right Media Channels - I listen to Ben Shapiro, but with a *big* grain of salt. He has a lot of opinions that I disagree with (mainly around the fact he is an Orthodox Jew and holds certain religious beliefs that I do not).

I occassionally will watch some of the other Daily Wire stuff - but they have a self-declared Religious lean and just like Ben, sometimes it irks me.

I do enjoy the Lotus Eaters: https://www.lotuseaters.com/ - But the style is very much aimed at people like myself and a touch younger. They have a range of presenters - some I like more than others (Sargon of Akkad - AKA Carl Benjamin - the founder) - I do not think it would be your cup of tea.

Ryan McBeth, Shawn Ryan (Podcast) and Sub Brief for Military or Global political stuff. You would probably like Ryan McBeth the most out of those, Sub Brief is (as you can probably guess) very focused on Naval news.

JRE anytime he has a Right Wing guest on (although the same goes for when he has a left wing guest on, too) - as he allows whoever he is talking to, to express themselves fully.

GB News, for a while, was pretty good for UK centric stuff.

The thing is - I generally prefer independent journalists or quasi-independent (like the Lotus Eaters) whereby it is not a big owned news entity, but a smallish group of people - where each person gets to outline their viewpoint on a subject. I like it when there is a healthy discussion on an issue.



Lots of talk about trump and fascism dicktater stuff. Be patient with this video, as it will have you pointing at your screen and shouting "yes, yes that, that multiple times. Incidentally I think John Stewart would make a brilliant president, much better than the last lot have been. Very impressed with his work with securing funding for 911 first responders ongoing support. Anyways, here is that video, and I recommend the left leaning kb folk watch this too.


I will point out that the abbreviation for The Daily Show - is TDS - which is too funny.

Jon Stewart sometimes hits the nail on the head - his point about the absurdity of the Lab Leak theory being implausible was one example.

However, I view him as I view Bill Maher - which is he is about 10-20 years behind what is going on.

But, I will watch and then edit this post with my thoughts.

------

Post watching Edit.

Jon gets so close - his point that all this power and all Trumps actions are vested to him by the US Democratic process...

And then he stops.

His critique of the left Media screeching Fascism and illegal etc. is good...

And then he stops.

He never goes to the next step:

Why are the Left Media hurling insults that now fall on deaf ears.
Why did the US People vote for Trump in the popular vote, in all swing states, in the house and in the Senate.

I put forward that it is for the same reason that Bill Maher still struggles.

In order to go to that next step, He needs to consider the possibility that there is something wrong with the current state of Left Wing Politics.

The problem is, if he does that... He will be just like Trump, Just like Elon, Just like RFK, Just like Tulsi. Hell, did you see Bill Clinton smiling and clapping at Trumps inaugaration speech... I bet Bill voted for Trump...

[sugilite]

I have tried to stay out of this thread, but reading the cheering for the orange buffoon "winning" against Columbia when the facts are the opposite is doing my head in. Below is a copy of a post from Heather Cox Richardson with sources. Look her up, she has helped me to understand the cesspool that is American politics. Sources are posted below as well. Sorry for the wall of text.

Welcome to the trump thread, the more points of view the better. Thank you for posting that. The China part at the end is interesting as I'm sure they will be more than happy to offer assistance to every country trump bullies. trump has no concept of how powerful soft power is.

One of my employees is a miner in Colombia, and he was really freaking out yesterday. I got him calmed down and told him trump is full of bluster and will likely reverse the penalties once his leader has succumbed to trumps obnoxious bullying. If trump had followed prior arrangements, none of it would of happened. trump was looking for that confrontation, and got it.

[pete376403]

From another site: 30 years ago, Carl Sagan predicted what the United States would be like in the future. How accurate is it today?
"I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time — when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness...”
~ Carl Sagan in "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark.

[sugilite]

The Guardian Balanced?!?
Out of the larger left wing media - yes.


As for Right Media Channels - I listen to Ben Shapiro, but with a *big* grain of salt.
Hard pass on shapiro, I have seen several of his videos, he does make "some" good points, but I view him as a right wing maddow with an even more annoying voice and sense of smugness. I will check your other suggestions out.

Be warned, despite Stewarts video, I do still firmly believe trump has fascist tendencies and is just getting warmed up.

Now I'm turning on my trumbastic app as I have just received an email from trump saying that if I can sell enough subscriptions of trumbastic I will get some melania crypto coin and an nft of him in his red Make America Great Again gruts - abbreviated to maga in a #3 font for obvious reasons.

Rightio folks lets go, more trumptastic features that you may not know about!
1. Using trumbastic instantly gives you the right to dismiss out of hand any sources gleaned from the left, no pesky fact checking required - "Oh that is a left wing source" and poooof the annoying need to offer a valid rebuttal is gone!

2. You get to use the coverall term "someone" to justify any position you hold dear to your opinions! "someone" had delayed justice for Jan 6th - Let em all go! Especially the violent ones because you may need them for your next insurrection - that is not releasing criminals and insurrectionists - that is sound asset management!

3. Free delayed justice tickets! Commit any crime you like and applying trumbastic scores you free delaying tactics for years and years. Never face annoying consequences for your crimes ever again!

4. With trumbastic you get to present whitehouse press releases that have already been released by the other side as if they are your own! Don't worry, because of clever media segregation, your mob will of never seen the other release! We even provide a hot blonde press release officer that has committed crimes herself - don't worry, she has plenty of trumbastic delayed justice tickets, so the term "alleged" is as far as it will go -Weeeeee!
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/new-jersey/drone-sightings-mystery-update-nj/6063296/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/president-donald-trump-shares-update-drones-seen-flying-over-new-jersey
https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Screenshot-2025-01-29-114125.jpg

Please read our updated terms and conditions below.......
Be aware that the trumbastic app is a fork of the app previously known as X-hitlerbastic. There was just a "small problem" - (as seen below) with that app for the subscribers after 5 years of use - but ignore that, just sent cash - lots and lots of sweet, sweet cash to trumbastic!

https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/55538d566bb3f7a8627c05b0.png



X-hitlerbastic apartments and homes prior to 5 year subscription.....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8e/Dresden-Neumarkt-pano.jpg

After the 5 year subscription has expired......

https://assets.editorial.aetnd.com/uploads/2020/02/dresden-bombing-gettyimages-1058618128.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

Out of the larger left wing media - yes.

Hard pass on shapiro, I have seen several of his videos, he does make "some" good points, but I view him as a right wing maddow with an even more annoying voice and sense of smugness. I will check your other suggestions out.

Be warned, despite Stewarts video, I do still firmly believe trump has fascist tendencies and is just getting warmed up.


I, personally, think that the Guardian is the worst of the lot - but as I said, at least they are somewhat honest in being the worst.

I get that on Shapiro, as I said, it is with a big grain of salt that I listen to him - not sure I would call him a Right Wing Maddow though.

Well, we shall see.

My hope for this Trump administration is that he guts a lot of the bloat from the Federal Government, gets rid of ideologically driven positions and departments (so far, so good), acts as the Big Stick that keeps everyone else in line (Gaza done, onto Russia) grows the US economy, secures the borders and shows other western countries (Cough the UK Cough) that actually closing the border and deporting illegal migrants is not only good, but is legal (also, a good start).

One area I am particularly interested in - is what RFK gets up to - I have said elsewhere, I am not onboard with his ideas per se (as in, I dont know if they are true or not) but he seems to genuinely believe them and seems genuinely passionate about public health, I dont see a scenario where things for US public health can get much worse - but on the off-chance it gets better (and realistically it will take at least a decade to see) - I am interested.

Finally, I hope he sticks to his notion of states rights and pushing issues back to the State level to legislate and handle.

[pritch]

Fox "News" reports:
"Secretary Hegseth has decided to immediately pull General Milley's security detail. Hegseth also ordered the new acting inspector general to conduct a review board to potentially strip General Milley of a star in retirement.. All highly unusual actions."

Pete Kegbreath is a small man indeed but I don't think he dreamed these things up by himself.

[pritch]

Aaaand there are moves in California to hold a vote on seceding from the Union. That's a change. It's usually the redneck states that talk secession but they're broke and are kept in funds by money from the Democrat controlled states California and New York etc. If California left there'd be a lot less money to keep them afloat. Secession is not likely but it might focus some minds.

[nerrrd]

It sure is relentless.

Trump offers millions of federal workers eight months pay to resign (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cnvqe3le3z4o)

[TheDemonLord]

It sure is relentless.

Trump offers millions of federal workers eight months pay to resign (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cnvqe3le3z4o)

Glorious, isnt it.

[sugilite]

It would be hilarious if they all accepted it.

in other news.

trump fails to stop Chinese AI company wiping a trillion dollars off off his tech bros company stock market values - "The Chinese did not dare try it under me" announced Biden - providing all the proof required that it is definitely trumps fault.

[TheDemonLord]

It would be hilarious if they all accepted it.

Indeed it would...

But not in the way you think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IPERyhpZbA

[sugilite]

Indeed it would...

But not in the way you think.

You mean having to go maga cap in hand begging the handful of middle class citizens he actually managed to enrichen in order to get some workers back? You know like president musk had to do with his supercharger team :lol:

[R650R]

It would be hilarious if they all accepted it.

in other news.

trump fails to stop Chinese AI company wiping a trillion dollars off off his tech bros company stock market values - "The Chinese did not dare try it under me" announced Biden - providing all the proof required that it is definitely trumps fault.

We’ll have to wait and see confirmation of if it’s as good as they say it is. Also a lot of AI is going to be used in defence and big business applications they will be wary of Chinese back doors so domestic AI supplier still needed.
Trump and other stock analysts have made a good point about the benefit though. If AI can now be had ten times cheaper that’s a massive increase in profit margin for the end user. Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, Tesla etc and other big caps that will use AI are as big or bigger than Nvidia so it ends up being a win.
But we know from their stealth fighters and certain other products the Chinese are not shy of faking it til they make it.

[husaberg]

If AI can now be had ten times cheaper that’s a massive increase in profit margin for the end user. Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, .
You are going to have explain this economic theory.
Exactly how does an end user have a profit margin.....

[1/32 man]

Artificial intelligence?......you mean like trump?

[pritch]

Generally I have the utmost sympathy for people whose lives are torn apart by Trump's performative cruelty. For others not so much.

[TheDemonLord]

Generally I have the utmost sympathy for people whose lives are torn apart by Trump's performative cruelty. For others not so much.

Do you have the same utmost sympathy for the burglar whose life is torn apart by getting arrested?

What about the Drunk Driver who blows over the limit?

How about the fraudster?

They, too, have their lives torn apart by breaking the law and then experiencing the consequences of their actions, so surely you must do.

[nerrrd]

We’ll have to wait and see confirmation of if it’s as good as they say it is. Also a lot of AI is going to be used in defence and big business applications they will be wary of Chinese back doors so domestic AI supplier still needed.
Trump and other stock analysts have made a good point about the benefit though. If AI can now be had ten times cheaper that’s a massive increase in profit margin for the end user. Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, Tesla etc and other big caps that will use AI are as big or bigger than Nvidia so it ends up being a win.
But we know from their stealth fighters and certain other products the Chinese are not shy of faking it til they make it.

I haven't seen a lot of actual case studies so far which show AI being applied commercially, I guess it's still too early on for that. Apparently you can use it to find a pet friendly restaurant and text that info to your middle class mates while you're strolling down some street, though.

I don't know how authoritative the tech podcasts I watch on Youtube are, but I've yet to come across one that raves about AI functionality (such as it exists so far) in practice.

[sugilite]

Do you have the same utmost sympathy for the burglar whose life is torn apart by getting arrested?

For me this is a very valid point. They have chosen to be there without the correct papers, they know they should not be there - no point crying when they get removed.
However, I do feel Pritch is also right in - it is very performative. I predicted before trump took office this whole deportation thing will start off with a hiss and a roar, and then will mysteriously subside from public view as trump knows that the agriculture and construction industries in particular are propped up by illegal immigrants and that is largely how americans get the prices they do in these industries. That and most americans simply do not want to do this kind of work - certainly not for the money these exploited migrants (who chose to be there) are subjected to is a very large issue.

It is my hope when trump has finished his barking seal performance for the base to justify most of his campaign trope - is that he then actually does the right thing to fix this issue - and it is pretty fucking simple in my opinion.
1. Deport the actual crime committing criminal migrants post haste.
2. Identify the jobs America which currently depends upon undocumented migrants. Issue work visas for said migrants that are currently working, or want to work in - no job = no papers.
3. make it very easy for proven workers to reapply for seasonal work visas. Make it easy for migrants to roll over their papers in jobs that are year round like construction etc.
I believe the above is a lot cheaper than sending ice on raids and then having to ship them to their respective countries only to wash and repeat a few weeks later when they get back in the country again.
I'm not decided if they should have a minimum wage, as just making them legal would give them more choice as to where and what company they work in, and the fact that unscrupulous employers would lose their main exploitation bargaining chip would mean they would have to "compete" to get good workers.



We’ll have to wait and see confirmation of if it’s as good as they say it is. Also a lot of AI is going to be used in defence and big business applications they will be wary of Chinese back doors so domestic AI supplier still needed.
Trump and other stock analysts have made a good point about the benefit though. If AI can now be had ten times cheaper that’s a massive increase in profit margin for the end user. Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, Tesla etc and other big caps that will use AI are as big or bigger than Nvidia so it ends up being a win.
But we know from their stealth fighters and certain other products the Chinese are not shy of faking it til they make it.
It is surprisingly good - I tried it yesterday.
When I asked it where are the most over priced vegetables to be found in New Zealand? It produced a photo of the beehive.
Just kidding. I actually asked it which variety of potato is best for baking that thrives in New Zealand growing conditions? It gave a very, very impressive answer. In my opinion that answer was better articulated and presented than any of the big American AI's.

I see that Open Ai is crying that they feel there intellectual properties were pillaged in the creation of this new AI. I have very little sympathy, as a few years ago a bunch of my websites inexplicitly started slowing down and then would come right after a bit. Especially ones dealing in information I provided expertise in. After ruling out server and software problems, I started reviewing the weblogs and there they all were. My sites were getting scraped over and over again by AI crawling bots essentially stealing my work. To the point now If I ask google and AI engines questions within my field, I often get my own words quoted verbatim back to me. It is especially galling when google does it as it's "AI overview". Trust me accreditation is distinctly lacking and the best I can hope for is a accreditation to my website in a size 6 fucking font. So forgive me if I don't give a flying fuck if american AI companies get pillaged themselves.

I see JFK is getting a grilling in the senate over his trump appointment. Some may pillar me on this, but I actually quite like the guy.
He was getting grilled on his vaccine stance and making money from pharmaceutical lawsuits and so on. While I do not agree on aspects of his stance, what struck me as being more disqualifying is he had no idea how medicaid and medicare is funded, or operates and even the differences between them and for me that instantly disqualifies him. If he is too lazy to study the fundamentals of the position he knows he is up for - then bye bye. Yes, I know about the brain worm - people can recover. The picking up a dead bear and depositing it in central park and is bizarre in the extreme, so that one is a concern.

Anyways, I find it particularly nauseating after hearing 4 years of magas attacking DEI (with validity) and promoting competency and merit above all else as being their north star - to only then turn around and tell the north star to fuck off and willingly appoint hopelessly unqualified hegsworth and now likely rfk into to head life and death military and health departments in order to appease their orange god.
What a bunch of hypocritical vomit bags.

[TheDemonLord]

For me this is a very valid point. They have chosen to be there without the correct papers, they know they should not be there - no point crying when they get removed.

And I say that as someone who has been through the Immigration process.


However, I do feel Pritch is also right in - it is very performative. I predicted before trump took office this whole deportation thing will start off with a hiss and a roar, and then will mysteriously subside from public view as trump knows that the agriculture and construction industries in particular are propped up by illegal immigrants and that is largely how americans get the prices they do in these industries. That and most americans simply do not want to do this kind of work - certainly not for the money these exploited migrants (who chose to be there) are subjected to is a very large issue.

Is it Performative - yes - both in terms of Trump showing his fulfilment of his campaign promises to his electorate...

But also to those who potentially are considering trying it on. If people who are in South American countries and are considering illegally trying to get into the US believe that the likelihood of them getting caught and returned is very high, then they will be disincentivized to try in the first place.

There are good reasons why that might be the case - one argument that has been made is that if you consider the type of person willing to try and cross the Border - they are enterprising, determined and willing to do what is necessary to get what they want - traits that could help their host countries become better.

Finally - on the Industry point - We have a lot of Agriculture in NZ, we also dont have a large illegal immigrant population. Beef, for example, is cheaper per Kilo in NZ than the US: $16.12 vs $12.10. Now - I will grant you that in NZ the Fruit Picking industry does leverage seasonal Labour - but this is all done via the front door.


It is my hope when trump has finished his barking seal performance for the base to justify most of his campaign trope - is that he then actually does the right thing to fix this issue - and it is pretty fucking simple in my opinion.

1. Deport the actual crime committing criminal migrants post haste.

That is what he is currently doing I believe.


2. Identify the jobs America which currently depends upon undocumented migrants. Issue work visas for said migrants that are currently working, or want to work in - no job = no papers.

3. make it very easy for proven workers to reapply for seasonal work visas. Make it easy for migrants to roll over their papers in jobs that are year round like construction etc.

So - I have seen some discussion on this. A lot of US Based Maga types pointed to the Reagan Immigration amnesty and essentially said:

'We tried that, it didnt work'

Realistically - providing a path to becoming lawful simply adds an incentive - that if you stay long enough or can game the system, you get to stay. I also think that a lot of US Maga Types are simply uninterested at this point. Their rational is that there is no benefit for them to be reasonable and the previous administration was completely unreasonable, therefore they will be likewise.

For seasonal work, if the American Maga Types had the confidence that someone from South America could come to the US and work a seasonal job and then return home - then sure, I think this would be a great idea - but I think it is fair to say that the confidence that this would happen is zero.

However, let me end this specific train of thought - suppose for the moment I agree with points 2 and 3 from a theoretical viewpoint, but not from a practical viewpoint.

In order to make them a possibility, first you would have to regain the confidence of the US Electorate - the Democrats and Democrat Governors and Mayors would have to reverse the idea of Sanctuary cities and show that they are not actively undermining a basic rule of law.

When the people feel that the Border is properly secured (nothing is perfect) and that the systems in place to deal with illegal migrants are working properly - that Asylum seekers are genuine and not just trying it on and that when there are fringe exceptions, they are just that - exceptions - then you might have a chance at implementing points 2 and 3.

But that is a whole lot of confidence and trust you are going to have to regain and it will probably take more than a decade and will require the Left to abandon some of their ideological positions.


I believe the above is a lot cheaper than sending ice on raids and then having to ship them to their respective countries only to wash and repeat a few weeks later when they get back in the country again.
I'm not decided if they should have a minimum wage, as just making them legal would give them more choice as to where and what company they work in, and the fact that unscrupulous employers would lose their main exploitation bargaining chip would mean they would have to "compete" to get good workers.

So, you may be interested in this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKQ18TBEK0A

which essentiallyt spells out the cost of deporting every Migrant - a lot of money, right...

I posted a comment in reply - and I am going to copy-pasta myself:


back-of-the-envelope Maths - on just one cost of allowing them to remain in the US.

Of that 11 Million people, approximately a third are under 18. This gives us an approximate figure of 3.67 Million Kids.

The cost, to the US tax payer to send a child through the school system (K-12) - is $163,000.

3,670,000 x 163,000 = $598,210,000,000.

Or, just under $600 Billion. Now - I will grant that this is for the entire school life of the child - and that not every child starts the school system at Kindergarten and leaves as Year 12.

I want to also stress that this is just one single cost to the tax payer of Illegal Migrants, that if they were removed from the country - you would not have to pay.

Now - I added some commentary and accepting that this is a very rough calculation and is missing lots of nuance - but it is to show that whilst there is a cost to deport someone, there is also a cost to allow them to remain.

[R650R]

I haven't seen a lot of actual case studies so far which show AI being applied commercially, I guess it's still too early on for that. Apparently you can use it to find a pet friendly restaurant and text that info to your middle class mates while you're strolling down some street, though.

I don't know how authoritative the tech podcasts I watch on Youtube are, but I've yet to come across one that raves about AI functionality (such as it exists so far) in practice.

Well it’s getting so good you may have interacted and not realised.

I watched a vid other week a group of four young entrepreneurs had created a fake influencer hoe online. The world’s oldest industry meets the newest industry.

Most online help/customer service emails are prob written by ai at larger companies.

Chinese are rolling out ai doctors for diagnosis

Soon all simple jobs will be done by ai eg accounting/invoicing/banking. Anything where the customer can enter all the data themselves there is no need for a human to be reading or re entering that information.

Watched another guy use an ai app that will transcribe speech to txt, translate that txt to foreign language, speak it out loud in foreign language and overdub it onto new version of same video. A relatively small portion of the world speaks English. So using that massively opens up revenue for people like itchyboots, brettkacs, max wrist etc. Thesecpeople are already getting by on ad revenue and sponsorships now they can increase their market 6-8 times over at click of a button.

[nerrrd]

Well it’s getting so good you may have interacted and not realised.

I watched a vid other week a group of four young entrepreneurs had created a fake influencer hoe online. The world’s oldest industry meets the newest industry.

Most online help/customer service emails are prob written by ai at larger companies.

Chinese are rolling out ai doctors for diagnosis

Soon all simple jobs will be done by ai eg accounting/invoicing/banking. Anything where the customer can enter all the data themselves there is no need for a human to be reading or re entering that information.

Watched another guy use an ai app that will transcribe speech to txt, translate that txt to foreign language, speak it out loud in foreign language and overdub it onto new version of same video. A relatively small portion of the world speaks English. So using that massively opens up revenue for people like itchyboots, brettkacs, max wrist etc. Thesecpeople are already getting by on ad revenue and sponsorships now they can increase their market 6-8 times over at click of a button.

That's a good point, I guess you wouldn't necessarily know. I think though at the moment, yes, you can use them as gatekeepers, or content creators, but not without human oversight (unless accuracy isn't something you need in your business) because they're still too inaccurate. (ie there are still too many made up 'facts' in the results).

I wonder if Elon has told President Trump he can replace the Federal Government with AI.

[sugilite]

Is it Performative - yes - both in terms of Trump showing his fulfilment of his campaign promises to his electorate...
His trumbastic nature has many magas believing he will follow through and do the lot - mugs - ultimately I strongly believe only a small fraction will be deported - 10 to 15% at most.


Finally - on the Industry point - We have a lot of Agriculture in NZ, we also dont have a large illegal immigrant population. Beef, for example, is cheaper per Kilo in NZ than the US: $16.12 vs $12.10. Now - I will grant you that in NZ the Fruit Picking industry does leverage seasonal Labor - but this is all done via the front door.
Simply put, the two are not comparable. NZ has always had a handle on immigration and worker visas. The USA has not, so all their processes and entire business plan has developed around this endless cheap labor - if I'm wrong and trump sends them all back - they are truly fucked. As it is with up to 80% of farms workers not turning up to work out of fear in California - will have crops rotting in the fields and the inescapable market conditions will take care of the rest - that being price increases due to a shit ton less produce avilable. How many seasons crops being destroyed do you think farming businesses will be able to sustain?

Which neatly brings me to a particular part of the American psyche that I have experienced first hand and have even given it a name - "The Avocado Effect". None of your writings allow for this effect. While living there in the trump years, he said something stupid and inflammatory about Mexico and boom, over night avocados went up in price across the USA. Before I reveal the effect, in NZ Avacados can go from 80 cents each to more than $3 each - depending on seasons - and that price can change in the blink of an eye. On the whole we do a bit of a whinge, but buy them none the less because nachos just aint nachos without guacamole. Sure we may buy less of them, but we still buy them. Contrast that with my American experience. After their avo price rise - they flat out refused to buy them at the Walmart I visited near daily after dropping my orders off at the PO. For the 3 weeks the price rise was in place, I saw them throw out massive crate after massive crate of spoiled avos. They like literally just stopped buying them. The price rise amount you may be asking? Well, after the previously steady 99 cents ea all year around, they rose to a nose bleed price of $1.29! Yep, all it took was a 30 cent rise and they thought it was the end of the avo world. You should hear how much pathetic squealing they do when their already ridiculously cheap fuel goes up by a few cents! Americans HATE price rises with a passion I've not seen in NZ. They all think they are so hard done by. To this day when several of my customer/friends from the states ask how we are doing here, and I tell them we are still in a recession, all of them to a "T" go on to tell me how hard they have it in the USA and they have it worse there than us - they also think their inflation is higher despite not doing a bit of fact checking - as is the american way now:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
You have not taken this effect into your calculations. It will not be hang mike pence that they will be calling for I promise you. The orange fucktard will need to be very, very careful how many immigrants he returns to sender - very careful indeed. For sure it would likely be third time lucky - or unlucky if your name is djt.


So - I have seen some discussion on this. A lot of US Based Maga types pointed to the Reagan Immigration amnesty and essentially said: 'We tried that, it didnt work'
I view this and the rest of your posts points as being deeply flawed, but cannot give enough of a fuck to type out all the reasons why.

Simply put - they do not really have the luxury of kicking the can down the road as has been the way for eons. Fucktards rhetoric is not going to work forever. They have to find a way of making suggestions at least similar to mine work. Going duh, a kinda similar thing failed last time is not even going to be close to cutting it. Their politicians, house magas in particular need to roll up their sleeves and fucking do their jobs and find and implement real solutions rather than endless fucking wankathons to create their pitiful reality tv show such as they are currently doing. It is truly pathetic.

[TheDemonLord]

His trumbastic nature has many magas believing he will follow through and do the lot - mugs - ultimately I strongly believe only a small fraction will be deported - 10 to 15% at most.

Which would still be better than Biden.

So far, most people who supported Trump are enjoying his opening term.


Simply put, the two are not comparable. NZ has always had a handle on immigration and worker visas. The USA has not, so all their processes and entire business plan has developed around this endless cheap labor - if I'm wrong and trump sends them all back - they are truly fucked. As it is with up to 80% of farms workers not turning up to work out of fear in California - will have crops rotting in the fields and the inescapable market conditions will take care of the rest - that being price increases due to a shit ton less produce avilable. How many seasons crops being destroyed do you think farming businesses will be able to sustain?

"If we free the Slaves, who will pick the Cotton?"

But getting back to NZ - sure, they are not comparable in that sense - the point is that it is possible to have an Agriculture sector, without cheap immigrant labour and have cheap prices for food

In a discussion elsewhere - an Aussie farmer pointed out that the USA looked at automation options for the Farming industry and then abandoned it because they could use cheap illegal labour.

Australia took the research and leveraged it.


Which neatly brings me to a particular part of the American psyche that I have experienced first hand and have even given it a name - "The Avocado Effect". None of your writings allow for this effect. While living there in the trump years, he said something stupid and inflammatory about Mexico and boom, over night avocados went up in price across the USA. Before I reveal the effect, in NZ Avacados can go from 80 cents each to more than $3 each - depending on seasons - and that price can change in the blink of an eye. On the whole we do a bit of a whinge, but buy them none the less because nachos just aint nachos without guacamole. Sure we may buy less of them, but we still buy them. Contrast that with my American experience. After their avo price rise - they flat out refused to buy them at the Walmart I visited near daily after dropping my orders off at the PO. For the 3 weeks the price rise was in place, I saw them throw out massive crate after massive crate of spoiled avos. They like literally just stopped buying them. The price rise amount you may be asking? Well, after the previously steady 99 cents ea all year around, they rose to a nose bleed price of $1.29! Yep, all it took was a 30 cent rise and they thought it was the end of the avo world. You should hear how much pathetic squealing they do when their already ridiculously cheap fuel goes up by a few cents! Americans HATE price rises with a passion I've not seen in NZ. They all think they are so hard done by. To this day when several of my customer/friends from the states ask how we are doing here, and I tell them we are still in a recession, all of them to a "T" go on to tell me how hard they have it in the USA and they have it worse there than us - they also think their inflation is higher despite not doing a bit of fact checking - as is the american way now:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
You have not taken this effect into your calculations. It will not be hang mike pence that they will be calling for I promise you. The orange fucktard will need to be very, very careful how many immigrants he returns to sender - very careful indeed. For sure it would likely be third time lucky - or unlucky if your name is djt.

For the sake of argument - I will accept your assessment of events as holy writ. Americans thinking they are the centre of the universe is not a huge leap of the imagination.

The bit that I am not so sure on is the idea that by removing illegal migrants en masse that there will be these massive price shocks. There are costs, both direct and indirect (as I outlined previous) to having them remain in the country and so long as the price shocks are temporary speed bumps (as opposed to Bidens mountain of Inflation...) then I think Trump will be fine.


I view this and the rest of your posts points as being deeply flawed, but cannot give enough of a fuck to type out all the reasons why.

Simply put - they do not really have the luxury of kicking the can down the road as has been the way for eons. Fucktards rhetoric is not going to work forever. They have to find a way of making suggestions at least similar to mine work. Going duh, a kinda similar thing failed last time is not even going to be close to cutting it. Their politicians, house magas in particular need to roll up their sleeves and fucking do their jobs and find and implement real solutions rather than endless fucking wankathons to create their pitiful reality tv show such as they are currently doing. It is truly pathetic.

So, I gotta clarify a little - It is not my personal view about the Reagan Amnesty, I heard this raised by different people in multiple locations. The Republicans are simply not interested in Amnesty.

When discussing this with them, the feeling I got was that once they feel the problems of the last 10-20 years have been addressed to their liking, maybe they could look at Amnesties or other options - but they are simply not inclined to play ball.

Any concessions they make will not be returned from the other side - so why should they even bother to give an Inch on the subject?

The real solution is to secure the Border by physical means as much as possible, redirect federal manpower to patrol it and make sure that the perception is that even if you get to the border and cross, you will be caught and returned immediately.

To make the point - I am going to use two examples

Australia and the UK and how they handled illegal migrant Boats.

Australia famously said "Fuck Off" intercepting migrant boats and instead of allowing them into Australia, put them in the Naaru processing camp. The net result is that there has not been that many attempts to migrate to Australia.

The UK, on the other hand, let the boats in - and so they kept coming.

If people thing they have a chance of success, they will take a punt. If they think they have no chance of success, they will be less inclined to do so. By having a strong, well guarded border - you disincentivize people to try in the first place.

Once that is in place - then you can start thinking about amnesties, temporary visas and all the other things that can be enabled by a properly function immigration system.

[1/32 man]

As bodies were pulled from the river, US President Donald Trump launched an extraordinary political attack blaming diversity hires for the midair collision between an airliner and a military helicopter.


Always blaming someone and kicking people when they are down.....there is no science to my opinion just human nature.

[pritch]

This didn't age well.

[pritch]

Well it’s getting so good you may have interacted and not realised.



Most of what I see is painfully obvious. Wrong words, miispronounced words, full stops in the wrong place, it's often barely comprehensible. Multiple times every day I leave something I'm watching because I can't be bothered with the AI crap commentary.

The recent AI Honda ad was an eye opener for being free of the normal failings.

[JimO]

luxon could do with some of trumps attitude, tell the grifters with their hand out to fuck off thats domestic and international ...........international like dangerous bastard........who remembers him

[Laava]

As bodies were pulled from the river, US President Donald Trump launched an extraordinary political attack blaming diversity hires for the midair collision between an airliner and a military helicopter.


Always blaming someone and kicking people when they are down.....there is no science to my opinion just human nature.
True to form. What a despicable cunt.

[sugilite]

wall of text
I'm really not convinced you have your thinking cap on with this one.

Near 50% of the farm labor market in the USA is serviced by undocumented immigrants.
https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/NAWS-data-fact-sheet-FINAL.docx-3.pdf

Your assertion that there would only be a small impact holds about as much water as a sieve.
The impact of indisputably soaring prices would have even more americans unable to afford healthy food. It would have a catastrophic effect on the USA in so many, many ways.


As an aside, considering the magas have been banging on about how DEI needs to go (it does), their main point has been hires need to be color blind and based solely on merit. With this in mind - can you please watch the mercifully short video below - the man who turns up at the 20 second mark - can you please point to the qualifications he has gained that made him the most qualified person based on merit to hold one of the most consequential jobs in the US Government? I'm sure the american people look forward to your answer with much relish - well, at least for the time they can still afford to buy relish.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihFoY7CqIHI&list=WL&index=2

[pritch]

luxon could do with some of trumps attitude, tell the grifters with their hand out to fuck off thats domestic and international ...........international like dangerous bastard........who remembers him

Some people we think of as having hands extended, others not so much. Every one of those billionaires that had pride of place at Trump's inaugeration has their hand out big time.

Likewise Luxon. He doesn't like "bottom feeders" but he'll dish out corporate welfare effortlessly.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm really not convinced you have your thinking cap on with this one.

Near 50% of the farm labor market in the USA is serviced by undocumented immigrants.
https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/NAWS-data-fact-sheet-FINAL.docx-3.pdf

Your assertion that there would only be a small impact holds about as much water as a sieve.
The impact of indisputably soaring prices would have even more americans unable to afford healthy food. It would have a catastrophic effect on the USA in so many, many ways.

So - again, I am re-iterating arguments I have heard made from this perspective around Immigration. I feel though it is fair to point out that many other countries have cheap food, well-established agricultural bases and do not rely on mass illegal labour.


As an aside, considering the magas have been banging on about how DEI needs to go (it does), their main point has been hires need to be color blind and based solely on merit. With this in mind - can you please watch the mercifully short video below - the man who turns up at the 20 second mark - can you please point to the qualifications he has gained that made him the most qualified person based on merit to hold one of the most consequential jobs in the US Government? I'm sure the american people look forward to your answer with much relish - well, at least for the time they can still afford to buy relish.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihFoY7CqIHI&list=WL&index=2

Given what we saw under the previous administration *cough* Afghanistan withdrawal *cough* - you could put a fried chicked in that position and it would be a marked improvement.

I dont have a dog in that particular fight though - but I do want to share this video - I mentioned a channel Sub Brief that deals with Naval News - Here, he talks about the failings of the Coast Guard, now - put the DIE stuff to the side, the reasons he outline seem to me more than sufficient to replace someone in the top job.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGxQ_nVUqAw

[HenryDorsetCase]

luxon could do with some of trumps attitude, tell the grifters with their hand out to fuck off thats domestic and international ...........international like dangerous bastard........who remembers him

the grifters with their hands out, as you call them, are his coalition partners. Who need to not only fuck right off but do so after a hard kick in the nuts.

[pritch]

As an aside, considering the magas have been banging on about how DEI needs to go (it does), their main point has been hires need to be color blind and based solely on merit. With this in mind - can you please watch the mercifully short video below - the man who turns up at the 20 second mark - can you please point to the qualifications he has gained that made him the most qualified person based on merit to hold one of the most consequential jobs in the US Government? I'm sure the american people look forward to your answer with much relish - well, at least for the time they can still afford to buy relish.


I was wondering for twenty seconds who this might be. Aaaaand it's Pete Kegbreath. You chose well but there are other nominations equally absurd.

Oh and two more pardoned J6ers are back in prison. One for online solicitation of a minor and one for drunk driving causing death.

[sugilite]

So - again, I am re-iterating arguments I have heard made from this perspective around Immigration. I feel though it is fair to point out that many other countries have cheap food, well-established agricultural bases and do not rely on mass illegal labour.
Why? that point has already been debunked as no country has a comparable situation that the USA finds itself in.


Given what we saw under the previous administration *cough* Afghanistan withdrawal *cough* - you could put a fried chicked in that position and it would be a marked improvement.
The mango chicken did a bang up job of releasing over 5,000 Taliban prisoners captured at eye watering expense for negligible return other than kicking the can down the road for the next poor fucker to deal with. Hmmmm, releasing shit loads of prisoners, it's almost like a theme is developing there :laugh:


I dont have a dog in that particular fight though - but I do want to share this video - I mentioned a channel Sub Brief that deals with Naval News - Here, he talks about the failings of the Coast Guard, now - put the DIE stuff to the side, the reasons he outline seem to me more than sufficient to replace someone in the top job.


Oooooook, well it is safe to assume that a hacker did not take over your kb account, then go on to do a spectacular job of impersonating your style while posting anti DEI and trumps appointees are great posts - I can only surmise that this was a typo from you. Let me helpfully correct that for you. "My dog died in this fight".

Though you do get extra maga points for pulling a fast "look over there" distraction. It is funny, when ever I see these maga look over there tropes - this is what I see in my minds eye.....

https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/elon-musk-small12-1737457410.jpg

[pritch]

Oooooook, well it is safe to assume that a hacker did not take over your kb account, then go on to do a spectacular job of impersonating your style while posting anti DEI and trumps appointees are great posts - I can only surmise that this was a typo from you. Let me helpfully correct that for you. "My dog died in this fight".


Trump's dimwit lawyer Alina Habba made the same mistake on TV. Dyslexia rulez.

[1/32 man]

Thanks Sugilite.....some good points made there.

Pritch...I would vote for you too.

TDL.....not so much....hey whats that behind you? Its a wall of text, isn't it?

[pritch]

The Governor of Illinois has signed an order prohibiting J6ers from State employment.

[sugilite]

Thanks Sugilite.....some good points made there.

Pritch...I would vote for you too.

TDL.....not so much....hey whats that behind you? Its a wall of text, isn't it?

In fairness to TDL, those walls of text would be a lot more effective at keeping migrants out compared to trumps meager offerings.

[Laava]

Here is a link to a factual documentary.
I have not fact checked it myself but seems legit…

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/15FiuRiw1K/

[TheDemonLord]

Why? that point has already been debunked as no country has a comparable situation that the USA finds itself in.

Exactly comparable - No, sure.

But I think to make the claim that the US is so unique as to not be able to draw comparisons - that is a bit weak.


The mango chicken did a bang up job of releasing over 5,000 Taliban prisoners captured at eye watering expense for negligible return other than kicking the can down the road for the next poor fucker to deal with. Hmmmm, releasing shit loads of prisoners, it's almost like a theme is developing there :laugh:

We had nearly 4 years of relative Peace in the middle east. No US Service members died - we had a general de-escalation of conflicts. I know you dont give any credit here - but I do and I think that counts for something.


Oooooook, well it is safe to assume that a hacker did not take over your kb account, then go on to do a spectacular job of impersonating your style while posting anti DEI and trumps appointees are great posts - I can only surmise that this was a typo from you. Let me helpfully correct that for you. "My dog died in this fight".

I am not invested in Pete Hegseth - so I have not looked into him or evaluated whether I think he is any good. But where I do have an opinion is that a rotting cabbage could be the Sec Def and still do a better job than the Biden adminsitration.


Though you do get extra maga points for pulling a fast "look over there" distraction. It is funny, when ever I see these maga look over there tropes - this is what I see in my minds eye.....

It was not for a Look over there - I thought it was a timely opportunity to post a clip of some of the sources I listen to - and in particular, one that touches on the topic of why a high ranking official was fired.

One narrative is that it is because Trump hates (insert preferred group here) - but when looked at objectively, you see a myriad of failings. I put it to you that these are symptomatic of artificially promoting people using a DIE framework. Everywhere these policies get implemented on mass, we seem to see the same issues.

There is a JBP clip that outlines it very well just from a pure stats perspective why DIE hiring has to result in a decrease in competency. Was from his Sixty Minutes interview IIRC.


https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/elon-musk-small12-1737457410.jpg

I am not sure what to make of Musk per se - but I am a good 40 percent sure that he did that as a Troll. The other Sixty percent is that he is an Autist doing Autistic things... Which may or may not include Trolling.

[TheDemonLord]

TDL.....not so much....hey whats that behind you? Its a wall of text, isn't it?

Well, I was right about the Election going to Trump and so far he seems to be making good on his promises. Whether or not the outcome(s) that I think will happen as a result of these policy decisions will happen is unknown - but I am hopeful.

We have seen what happens when the US goes in one direction (it was bad) and so it stands to reason that if you go in the opposite direction it will be better.

If it does turn out better - what then?

[1/32 man]

Well thanks, you did reply politely.

Hey, look over there! Is that a rotting cabbage?

I like that analogy so thought I would throw it in.

[sugilite]

Exactly comparable - No, sure.

But I think to make the claim that the US is so unique as to not be able to draw comparisons - that is a bit weak.

Weak you say - ok, show me 3 other countries that are comparable to the USA then - as in had a lifetime of governments kicking the can down the road immigration wise leading to an approaching 50% of the agriculture labor force being undocumented immigrants.

[sugilite]

Wow, with trump imposing 25% tariffs on friendly neighbor Canada. Imagine what he will do to countries he has many times deemed to be the enemy!


Oh, China 10% tariff. :rolleyes:
President musk must of had a word in trumps ear.

Canada should charge 25% retaliatory tariffs on the presidents personal companies - tesla and starlink.


More to the tragic air crash that repugnant trump launched a baseless attack blaming DEI policies.

An interesting timeline as follows....
20/1 trump implements federal hiring freeze including air controllers.
(The Regan airport only had one controller on, instead of the required two.)
21/1 trump disbands the aviation security advisory committee and fired the TSA director.
22/1 trumps officially ends DEI putting out a press release saying that will "restore excellence and safety within the federal aviation industry.
One week later the deadliest commercial aircraft accident in the last 16 years occurs.

trump baselesly blames dei hiring practices and then the next day says the helicopter was flying too high.
I remember when air accident reports got released months after the crash. Now with borish motormouth and now apparent aviation crash expert tump - they come out within minutes.

Anyways, 2 of the 3 helicopter crew have been named, a couple of very experienced white soldiers. Grossly unqualified hegsworth has not released the 3rd name. I assume that would be because the 3rd soldier is not a female brown skinned trans dwarf and thus would destroy trumps dei narrative. Hegsworth has quickly shown the reason why he was hired despite having zero demonstrable skills to do the job - he gives a mean trump hand job - sigh.

[TheDemonLord]

Weak you say - ok, show me 3 other countries that are comparable to the USA then - as in had a lifetime of governments kicking the can down the road immigration wise leading to an approaching 50% of the agriculture labor force being undocumented immigrants.

Okay - first up we have the UK:

Lifetime of Governments kicking the can down the road - check.
Large swathes of the manual labour market being done by Migrants of dubious legality - check.

Next up NZ:

Whilst our physical distance means the problem is not as bad - there have been multiple high profile cases of mainly Indian businesses using illegal migrants and treating them terribly.

Finally - the GCC (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Dubai etc.)

Whether or not they are legal or illegal migrants is not entirely clear, but significant parts of their economy are fuelled by Migrant labour. The way they deal with them seems to be to essentially make them second-class citizens and little more than glorified slaves. The authorities seem content to look the other way if they are in the country illegally or legally - as it doesnt matter anyway because regardless they have little to no rights.

So, not the exact same situation - but I do believe that there are comparable situations in many places - and the claim that if the Migrants are gone, it will all collapse, to me is untenable.

In my opening rebuttal - I started with the quote:

If we free the slaves, who will pick the Cotton?

The US has been in a similar situation before - where a significant economic sector relies heavily on cheap manual labour. When the Slaves were freed (yes, I will acknowledge share cropping was virtually slavery) the USA did not cease to exist. There were short-term growing pains but the net result was that the US economy grew.

So I put it to you that if this policy is fully implemented, it will not be the Doom-and-Gloom scenario, but you will see a growth (in real terms) of the Economy. The individual worker will be better off as there will be a high demand for labour.

[TheDemonLord]

Wow, with trump imposing 25% tariffs on friendly neighbor Canada. Imagine what he will do to countries he has many times deemed to be the enemy!


Oh, China 10% tariff. :rolleyes:
President musk must of had a word in trumps ear.

Canada should charge 25% retaliatory tariffs on the presidents personal companies - tesla and starlink.


More to the tragic air crash that repugnant trump launched a baseless attack blaming DEI policies.

An interesting timeline as follows....
20/1 trump implements federal hiring freeze including air controllers.
(The Regan airport only had one controller on, instead of the required two.)
21/1 trump disbands the aviation security advisory committee and fired the TSA director.
22/1 trumps officially ends DEI putting out a press release saying that will "restore excellence and safety within the federal aviation industry.
One week later the deadliest commercial aircraft accident in the last 16 years occurs.

trump baselesly blames dei hiring practices and then the next day says the helicopter was flying too high.
I remember when air accident reports got released months after the crash. Now with borish motormouth and now apparent aviation crash expert tump - they come out within minutes.

Anyways, 2 of the 3 helicopter crew have been named, a couple of very experienced white soldiers. Grossly unqualified hegsworth has not released the 3rd name. I assume that would be because the 3rd soldier is not a female brown skinned trans dwarf and thus would destroy trumps dei narrative. Hegsworth has quickly shown the reason why he was hired despite having zero demonstrable skills to do the job - he gives a mean trump hand job - sigh.

A Policy that was actively pursued for 4 years is not going to be fully wound back in over a week.

I am waiting for actual analysis as to what happened.

[pritch]

Wow, with trump imposing 25% tariffs on friendly neighbor Canada. Imagine what he will do to countries he has many times deemed to be the enemy!

Here's hoping the Canadians are suitably offfended. Several northern US cities rely on Canadian electricity. The Canadians should just flick the switch. Chaos and huge price increases would follow.

Trump can't claim that DEI caused the Lear Jet crash in Philadelphia. It was returning a Mexican paediatric patient to Mexico following treatment. The 'plane and all in it were Mexican.

[onearmedbandit]

20/1 trump implements federal hiring freeze including air controllers.
(The Regan airport only had one controller on, instead of the required two.)


Note on this one - according to reports the second ATC had been given permission to go home early before 9:30pm when they would go down to one ATC due to less traffic after this time.



I assume that would be because the 3rd soldier is not a female brown skinned trans dwarf and thus would destroy trumps dei narrative.

It was at the family's request that her name not be released.

[sugilite]

Okay - first up we have the UK:

Lifetime of Governments kicking the can down the road - check.
Large swathes of the manual labour market being done by Migrants of dubious legality - check.
Is the government and everyone else clamoring to deport them - no - thus no pending labor shortage.
Not relatable to the situation in the USA


Next up NZ:

Whilst our physical distance means the problem is not as bad - there have been multiple high profile cases of mainly Indian businesses using illegal migrants and treating them terribly.
So bad actor employers confiscating their workers legal OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS and passports allowing them here and treating them badly in in no way like what is happening in the USA with mass (supposedly) deportation.


Finally - the GCC (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Dubai etc.)

Whether or not they are legal or illegal migrants is not entirely clear, but significant parts of their economy are fuelled by Migrant labour.
They are not even trying to deport these people!!! So once again - Not relatable to the situation in the USA.

I can scarcely believe I have to type this - but....
USA has near 50% undocumented workers in agriculture.
USA wants to deport them all at once.
USA has no viable plan to mitigate the undeniable carnage this policy will unleash.
The 3 points combined above are EXCLUSIVE to the USA
If you need to point to other countries largely unrelated situations to prop up your arguments, you are not operating from a position of strength. You are also very, very quickly using up sugi reply credits posting this rubbish. Anymore blatant look over theres or facetious postings when you essentially have got nothing and just cannot let go of your latest talking point - will deplete the credits to zero very, very soon.


So I put it to you that if this policy is fully implemented, it will not be the Doom-and-Gloom scenario, but you will see a growth (in real terms) of the Economy. The individual worker will be better off as there will be a high demand for labour.
So again - the farmers don't have time for half their workers to be deported, then wait until the Government sorts "something" out, then new workers can be bought into the country and hired.



I am waiting for actual analysis as to what happened.
But air safety expert trump has already released his report, or is that the trouble when you put a bombastic piece of shit in charge?

[sugilite]

Note on this one - according to reports the second ATC had been given permission to go home early before 9:30pm when they would go down to one ATC due to less traffic after this time.
Rightio, ok.



It was at the family's request that her name not be released.
This actually highlights the issue perfectly.
Imagine you are this womans parents and the leader of your country has just come out blaming the crash on DEI hires. And to be clear, for the maga mob a suspect DEI hire is anyone other than a white male.
With your child not being a white male, would you want their name to be released to have repugnant magas attacking your childs memory and subjecting yourselves to maga attacks on the rest of your family as they are extremely well known to do?
By trump baseless claim blaming DEI in a cheap political stunt - he has in effect heaped a ton of extra hurt on this family. Soldiers who die outside of deployment are in essence still making the ultimate sacrifice for their country. trump has denied this family to openly acknowledge their childs sacrifice - which coming from a man who dodged the draft multiple times is particularly galling.

[onearmedbandit]

This actually highlights the issue perfectly.
Imagine you are this womans parents and the leader of your country has just come out blaming the crash on DEI hires. And to be clear, for the maga mob a suspect DEI hire is anyone other than a white male.
With your child not being a white male, would you want their name to be released to have repugnant magas attacking your childs memory and subjecting yourselves to maga attacks on the rest of your family as they are extremely well known to do?
By trump baseless claim blaming DEI in a cheap political stunt - he has in effect heaped a ton of extra hurt on this family. Soldiers who die outside of deployment are in essence still making the ultimate sacrifice for their country. trump has denied this family to openly acknowledge their childs sacrifice - which coming from a man who dodged the draft multiple times is particularly galling.

They (the army and the family) have decided to release her name now so they can openly acknowledge the loss of their "brilliant warrior" and "bright star". A good move by them I feel.

[nerrrd]

Well he’s started the trade war with his two neighbours, apparently he won’t even take Trudeau’s call at the moment, I know he’s on the way out but…blimey. On a side note, I really like how the Canadians swap from English to French so easily.

In theory the US has the bigger stick I guess, I wonder what President Trump will consider a win once this all shakes out. I mean, he doesn’t seriously think Canada is going to join the US…does he?

[sugilite]

They (the army and the family) have decided to release her name now so they can openly acknowledge the loss of their "brilliant warrior" and "bright star". A good move by them I feel.
I wonder if hegsworth prompted the family to do that for his boss in order to get that all important maga created scapegoat? From the fox article about it - "Lobach’s family had initially asked for her identity to be withheld because of unsubstantiated accusations that DEI was a factor in the crash. "


From the same article announcing her name comment section - OAB this is maga in action, these 3 screen shots were just in the 1st 10 comments and I promise you there will be a lot worse if you have the stomach to look for it (I don't). Look at the like/dislike ratio for the first comment as proof of general maga ignorance in deference to their orange leader. (Fox sorted these comments by "best" hence the out of sequence timestamps - and yes you read that right - "best").
Unfortunately, I assure you there will be bunches of these arseholes looking for the families social media accounts to abuse them as I type this.

TDL can be proud of the maga movement eh. This is who they are from the top to the bottom.

https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-02-154458.jpg

https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-02-154558.jpg

https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-02-155850.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

Is the government and everyone else clamoring to deport them - no - thus no pending labor shortage.
Not relatable to the situation in the USA

Yes.

The British Population is clamoring to deport them. Something like 70-80% approval for deportation. The fact that Labour or the Conservatives failed to do that is another discussion entirely.


So bad actor employers confiscating their workers legal OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS and passports allowing them here and treating them badly in in no way like what is happening in the USA with mass (supposedly) deportation.

Not in every way possible, but there are similarities in that there are industries in NZ that are known to have a higher proportion of illegal labour working in them.

And I would wager most Kiwis would be happy to see the people who should not be working in NZ deported.


They are not even trying to deport these people!!! So once again - Not relatable to the situation in the USA.

They arent per se... But let me put it this way, if Illegal Workers had the same 'rights' (or lack thereof) that Migrant workers had in the GCC, I dont think we would see the same problems.

So, whilst not directly comparable, there are elements that are similar.




I can scarcely believe I have to type this - but....
USA has near 50% undocumented workers in agriculture.
USA wants to deport them all at once.
USA has no viable plan to mitigate the undeniable carnage this policy will unleash.
The 3 points combined above are EXCLUSIVE to the USA
If you need to point to other countries largely unrelated situations to prop up your arguments, you are not operating from a position of strength. You are also very, very quickly using up sugi reply credits posting this rubbish. Anymore blatant look over theres or facetious postings when you essentially have got nothing and just cannot let go of your latest talking point - will deplete the credits to zero very, very soon.

So again - the farmers don't have time for half their workers to be deported, then wait until the Government sorts "something" out, then new workers can be bought into the country and hired.

The problem is that you have the historical precedent of Slavery. The USA went from a position of nearly 100% free labour, to having to pay for that labour. The Agricultural sector did not collapse. Prices didnt exponentially rise.

All the consequences that you put forward as being catastrophic, did not occur.

Furthermore - before Abolition - many people made the same arguments, that the industry couldnt cope with the sudden changes and other doom and gloom predictions.

Now - for a more measured response, there are some points that I think have validity - that if the deportations are hyper-successful (every Republicans fevered wet dreams) then there would be a temporary shortage of labour, which would necessitate hiring contractors who could potentially price gouge, causing short term pricing shocks... However, this would unlikely to be passed onto consumers because most produce in the US is sold to a handful of entities (which is another problem in-of-itself) which dictate the prices to Farmers (similar to NZ and how Turners and Growers, FreshMax and the other one control most of the fruit purchasing).

However - I dont think the Deportations are going to be efficient enough to cause 11 million people to disapear overnight.

So, hypothetically - if one farm is raided and half the workforce is illegal, they all get deported - that Farm will have to hire contractors and take the hit temporarily, but all the other Farms are going to be fine - the price shock and the economic shock will be mitigated.

Furthermore - as people are deported - there are a lower domestic demand for products, goods and services - allowing more of the produce to be exported to higher-paying markets, which will go some distance to offset the costs. Afterall, if everyone goes back to their home countries, they are going to have to eat food in their home countries and it is unlikely that those countries are going to be able to crank up production in the short term.

To conclude - whilst my retort may seem flippant, there is a historical precedent and there are a range of factors that weight against the argument that it will cause wide-spread economic devastation.

However.... If you sincerely believe that Trump and his team will be efficient and competent enough to deport a significant number of them overnight...


But air safety expert trump has already released his report, or is that the trouble when you put a bombastic piece of shit in charge?

Again, I will wait for the air crash analysis before commenting. That said, there is lots to undo and it will take time to undo it.

[onearmedbandit]

OAB this is maga in action, these 3 screen shots were just in the 1st 10 comments and I promise you there will be a lot worse if you have the stomach to look for it (I don't). Look at the like/dislike ratio for the first comment as proof of general maga ignorance in deference to their orange leader. I'm sorry, but I assure you there will be bunches of these arseholes looking for the families social media accounts to abuse them as I type this.



Wait I think you've mistakenly assumed I'm defending Trump etc. All I was doing was giving reasons behind a couple of points you raised where I thought clarity was needed. My opinion on this is along the lines of Trump should stop stoking fires especially when there are lives lost. He shouldn't be commenting on causes yet, because there is no official cause publicly released yet and by doing so he's creating hype and speculation that is most certainly harmful to many people.

In other words, stop thinking about himself and let people who know what they're doing/talking about get on with it. But that won't happen because Trump.

[sugilite]

They arent per se... But let me put it this way, (and more twaddle)
Credits expired.

[sugilite]

In other words, stop thinking about himself and let people who know what they're doing/talking about get on with it. But that won't happen because Trump.
Yeah, unfortunately decency is not in his DNA.

[JimO]

the grifters with their hands out, as you call them, are his coalition partners. Who need to not only fuck right off but do so after a hard kick in the nuts.


i was thinking more along the lines of anyone getting taxpayers money for climate change tax and the cunts that no doubt will be protesting next thursday

[sugilite]

Magas dead head ted cruz attacks nz with fake news - good grief :facepalm:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360567519/nzs-washington-embassy-contacts-us-senator-ted-cruz-office-incorrect-israeli-visa-claim

[pritch]

Trump's attitude to DEI and his insistence that the best people be appointed to the job is ironic considering the absolutely unqualified cretins he's appointing to his cabinet.

Anyone who took the position that Trump could be unaware of Project 2025 is looking pretty silly now that the authors all have top Jobs in his administration and he immediately followed the programme right from Day 1. That'd be the programme that he was allegedly unaware of?

[TheDemonLord]

Magas dead head ted cruz attacks nz with fake news - good grief :facepalm:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360567519/nzs-washington-embassy-contacts-us-senator-ted-cruz-office-incorrect-israeli-visa-claim

Well... Hold your horses for a second.

A Reputable News outlet posts a story containing two claims:

- There is a Genocide Hotline in NZ (which is true - Socialist John Minto has set this up - also head of the PPTA...)
- NZ changed Visa requirements based on IDF service.

The second claim is where it gets interesting - I cannot see the original article on Haaretz (Paywall) - but this article discusses it and a quick cross-reference seems to back it up:

https://www.jewishpress.com/news/global/australia-new-zealand-oceania/new-zealand-rejects-haaretz-report-on-denying-visas-to-idf-soldiers/2025/02/02/

Scroll down to the bit where it says "Reality according to Gilroy" - Seems some Israelis were denied a Visa - with the official statement being:


The declined visitor visa applications we have identified for Israeli nationals have been because the applicants did not demonstrate that they meet the standard requirements to show that they are genuine applicants, such as providing proof of ties to their home country, reasons for their stay, or evidence of their travel plans.

Is it outside the realm of possibility that Haaretz got a report from some ticket off Israelis who were turned away at the border who said it was because of their IDF status?

Do you think it is outside the realm of possibility that someone working in Immigration, when looking at a 50/50 case where it is their judgement as to whether to allow or deny a Visa might have their opinion swayed by strong views on the Israel-Palestine conflict?

Now - to be clear - the fault lies with the news outlet for publishing rage-bait and not doing sufficient fact checking and yes, Ted Cruz also deserves ridicule for shooting first and asking questions later.

However - there is a reasonable view that he would have seen the Haaretz article and the Times of Israel article and reasonably believed it to be true.

So whilst this is a bit of an L for Ted, it is not the glaringly obvious fail which you are making it out to be.

TL;DR - Journalists of all stripes are dirty dirty smear merchants and you should treat all breaking stories with a grain of salt.

[sugilite]

Trump's attitude to DEI and his insistence that the best people be appointed to the job is ironic considering the absolutely unqualified cretins he's appointing to his cabinet.

Anyone who took the position that Trump could be unaware of Project 2025 is looking pretty silly now that the authors all have top Jobs in his administration and he immediately followed the programme right from Day 1. That'd be the programme that he was allegedly unaware of?

Yep, like most trump stances, it is just a coverall cudgel to keep blaming the dems for everything - and as you can see from my posts of the fox comments above, his knuckle dragging base will keep lapping those lies up. His selections make a mockery of the "based on merit". What a bunch of wankers. :tugger:

I watched about 5 minutes of that patel guy lying through his teeth to the senate insisting he did not say the things they were accusing him off, and in every denial there is youtube video proof of him saying exactly those things. This is the guy in the department that is supposed to deal in truth. The only people that think the FBI is corrupt are the same people celebrating trump not facing justice through a broken US justice system that allows wealthy people to indefinitely delay justice. The republican party truly is dead, it is just the maga moron party of lies now.

And the musk thing, it is unconscionable for the single largest recipient of government contracts and the single largest maga election campaign donor to have any hand in government spending. It is the largest single conflict of interest I have ever seen.
Can you imagine if the dems had placed soros front and centre then made up a government department just for him? The magas heads would of exploded. But when they do it with musk, it is somehow all good. :facepalm:
To me, clearly musks mask is slipping badly. I'm sure by the time he is done, he will of done a lot more harm to humanity than the good he has done thus far. And that is a real shame he has let politics corrupt and derail him.

Oh yeah, both trump and biden have shown the power of pardons need to be withdrawn from the presidential arsenal of tools. Both sides just abuse it.

[pritch]

In theory the US has the bigger stick I guess, I wonder what President Trump will consider a win once this all shakes out. I mean, he doesn’t seriously think Canada is going to join the US…does he?

Indications are that he does. It is rapidly becoming too obvious to ignore that he is not firing on all cylinders.

I wonder if has lowered the rice of groceries yet? :whistle:

[pritch]

And the musk thing, it is unconscionable for the single largest recipient of government contracts and the single largest maga election campaign donor to have any hand in government spending. It is the largest single conflict of interest I have ever seen.


Musk minions have taken over government IT systems and refused to let the staff access them. Musk himself has taken over the US Federal Government cheque book. He now controls all US government spending. That's OK, it's not like he's a druggie or mentally unstable or anything. Oh wait...

[nerrrd]

Good on the Canadians for retaliating in kind to the tariffs, I wonder how long that's going to hold, though, especially if President Trump escalates them as promised.

Makes me think of NZ's situation with Australia and the 501s, we could retaliate economically (I guess), but it would hurt us a lot more than it would them and is unlikely to change any Australian minds.

[pete376403]

Wonder if the cartels will apply the tariffs to coke, fentanyl and other recreational chemicals (including coffee) in Mexico and Columbia

[Kickaha]

Good on the Canadians for retaliating in kind to the tariffs, I wonder how long that's going to hold, though, especially if President Trump escalates them as promised..

I also like the way some are targeted at red states

The Canadians can escalate because they supply a lot of electricity and oil (although that flows both ways)

There won't really be any winners, but they need to play hard ball with that orange cockwomble and show they won't be pushed around, unfortunately Trump wont care what effect it has on the general public and is likely just to keep escalating

[sugilite]

A large batch of Brocolli has become contaminated in the States.
The issue? DEI of course - if only they had white men in charge of the whole process, this would of been avoided :rolleyes:

https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-03-120813.jpg

[Berries]

A large batch of Brocolli has become contaminated in the States.

The issue? DEI of course

WASHINGTON, D.C. — An infuriated President Trump blamed Diversity, Equity and Inclusion after discovering that McDonald's had accidentally left the pickles off of his Big Mac.

"NO PICKLES!! This is what you get when you choose diversity over merit!!" Trump posted on Truth Social. "It was a routine Big Mac order, very straightforward. How do you miss the pickles? This is a terrible situation that could have been prevented. NOT GOOD!!"

Advisors reportedly questioned Trump as to why, exactly, he believed the forgotten pickles were due to diversity hires. "Forgive me, sir, but how do we know your lost pickles are due to inclusion programs?" asked Presidential aide Thomas Denton. "We all agree that hiring people because of their skin color or gender is bad, but shouldn't we perhaps gather more evidence before saying that's what caused the pickle tragedy?"

White House sources report that Denton was slapped in the mouth and reassigned to a consulate in Bosnia.

At publishing time, a still livid President Trump had posted, "THIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED WHEN I WORKED AT MCDONALD'S!!"

[TheDemonLord]

https://kamalaharris.com/a-new-way-forward/

This page has been doing the rounds.

I love it.

[sugilite]

Ahh yes, Trump and his pickle issues - a walk down mammary lane......

https://andys-kawasaki-zxr-zx7r-tribute-site.net/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/Screenshot-2025-02-03-161707.jpg

[sugilite]

You know it must be bad when even the right wing Wall Street Journal calls your trade war the "Dumbest Trade War in History" :laugh:

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/us/2025/02/02/dumbest-trade-war-in-history-us-reacts-to-trumps-tariffs/

[neels]

About as dumb as ordering the release of billions of gallons of water from Northern California to help with fighting the wildfires, except that the water will never reach Southern California where the fires are, and won't be available when it's dry in the summer for it's intended purpose of irrigation and maintaining river flows.

https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/expert-describes-trump-ordered-northern-california-water-release-dumb/

[Kickaha]

About as dumb as ordering the release of billions of gallons of water from Northern California to help with fighting the wildfires, except that the water will never reach Southern California where the fires are, and won't be available when it's dry in the summer for it's intended purpose of irrigation and maintaining river flows.


His stupid fucking followers wont even check on that and find out he's talking crap

[Laava]

His stupid fucking followers wont even check on that and find out he's talking crap
You should take it easy on tdl and the righteous brothers, you might hurt their feeling.

[Berries]

You should take it easy on tdl and the righteous brothers, you might hurt their feeling.
Ah man.

You've lost that loving feeling.

[husaberg]

Ah man.

You've lost that loving feeling.
on the first one he crashed and burned?

[TheDemonLord]

His stupid fucking followers wont even check on that and find out he's talking crap

According to one guy, who appears to have a history of being associated with environmental causes, NGOs and whose consultancy website fails to serve the correct SSL Cert (which I might have been leniant on like 5 years ago, before LetsEncrypt really kicked off).

Suffice to say I am not taking his opinion with much weight.

[neels]

According to one guy, who appears to have a history of being associated with environmental causes, NGOs and whose consultancy website fails to serve the correct SSL Cert (which I might have been leniant on like 5 years ago, before LetsEncrypt really kicked off).

Suffice to say I am not taking his opinion with much weight.
If you don't like that opinion, avail yourself of one of the many other news sources reporting that it was pointless, stupid, and created risk to life and property.

Who knows, if you became a bit more informed and less dogmatic in your belief despite evidence to the contrary, people might take your opinion with a bit more weight. :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

If you don't like that opinion, avail yourself of one of the many other news sources reporting that it was pointless, stupid, and created risk to life and property.

Is that like the many other news sources reporting that:

- No way Covid could come from a Lab
- Definitely wasnt Hunter Bidens Laptop
- Kamala will definitely win

etc.

Shall I go on?

However - I did decide to look at the many other news sources - and curiously - I only found one other person being cited:

Victor Hernandez, who oversees water management on one of the rivers, the Kaweah in Tulare County.

One wonders if he might have a reason to be opposed to Trump...


Who knows, if you became a bit more informed and less dogmatic in your belief despite evidence to the contrary, people might take your opinion with a bit more weight. :laugh:

You do realize the *exact* same sentiment can be directed at Journalists and the News media in general - if they treated Trump fairly - I might give more weight to their opinion.

As for this article

As for people giving my opinion weight - I was right about Trump winning, I was right about how flawed the NZ Government method of reporting on Covid Deaths was.

Perhaps they should pay a little more attention...

[pritch]

The calls to invoke the 25th Amendment have started. It's too soon yet but that could be how Trump ends his presidency. For anyone not familiar the 25th Amendment is invoked when a president is unable to function because of health, either physical, or as in this case mental.

Musk has a team of very young and possibly unqualified people working in Treasury. Nobody knows what they are doing and they have access to all US Treasury systems. Some refer to this as a hostile takeover, some refer to it as a coup. Certainly nobody voted for it whatever it is..

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-government-young-engineers/

[TheDemonLord]

The calls to invoke the 25th Amendment have started. It's too soon yet but that could be how Trump ends his presidency. For anyone not familiar the 25th Amendment is invoked when a president is unable to function because of health, either physical, or as in this case mental.

Right, so we had a walking Corpse that was Joe Biden who could barely form a coherent sentence - Nope, totally fit to be President...

Vs Trump who is invigorated, speaking as clearly as he always has and full of beans.


Musk has a team of very young and possibly unqualified people working in Treasury. Nobody knows what they are doing and they have access to all US Treasury systems. Some refer to this as a hostile takeover, some refer to it as a coup. Certainly nobody voted for it whatever it is..

https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-government-young-engineers/

No, I think you will find people *did* vote for it, because he talked about US Federal spending and how he will bring it down and get it under control.

Right or Left - the US at the moment is 36 TRILLION in Debt. Both sides can agree that this is a big number and needs to be brought down.

So, Musk going in and finding out what is being spent and cleaning house - sounds good to me.

Afterall - He stopped Twitter from hemorrhaging money...

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-pPgu3PbaU

This is what a reasonably balance review looks like. There are elements here that I disagree with. There are elements that demand further debate. There are elements where Ryan is fairly critical of Tulsi and there are times when he fairly defends her.

For example, on the Edward Snowden point - I can see the view that he broke the law, I also think that what he did was necessary (even if it did introduce problems)

[pritch]

That didn't take long. Trump has lost his tariff wars and surrendered. In Canada's case there is an announcement of new border control measures except they are not new. They were announced previously. It's so transparently pathetic it makes me wonder if it's just intended to distract the media from something else even more worrying.

[Kickaha]

However - I did decide to look at the many other news sources - and curiously - I only found one other person being cited:

Victor Hernandez, who oversees water management on one of the rivers, the Kaweah in Tulare County.

One wonders if he might have a reason to be opposed to Trump...


You obviously didn't look very hard

[TheDemonLord]

You obviously didn't look very hard

That was across 7 different news articles.

But by all means, if there is one you think I missed...

[pritch]

Just looking at some of Canada's responses to Trump's tariffs. Ontario announced that they was cancelling their new $100 million contract with Musk's Starlink. Canada announced a 100% tariff on Tesla cars. Trump promptly folded. It's almost as if his puppet master felt the trade war was getting too expensive.

Canada has a 'different' system of liquor sales, the government owns the bottle stores? The bottle stores removed all US products from the shelves. Individual Canadians had already largely stopped buying US grocery products.

A Canadian politician said it would only take a week before the US car companies were starting to run out of Canadian "just in time" supplied components. The US farmers were worried about an increase in the cost of fertiliser, components of which come from Canada.

It's almost as if Trump hadn't thought it through. :whistle:

[F5 Dave]

Oh no, the beauty is that it makes Good Business Sense. It's all part of the Art Of The Deal[tm]. You just can't see The Long Game that he playing.

He is softening them all up by jingo they will be for the hop if they don't Toad the Line.

[neels]

That was across 7 different news articles.

But by all means, if there is one you think I missed...
Regardless of your opinion of the political leanings of the people quoted in the various articles, the general consensus is that it's dumb and not doing what he's claiming, and it's hard to overlook the stupid in his post saying that the water was going to Los Angeles when it's demonstrably not.

Where it is going, however, is onto the megafarms in the republican voting counties of california, what a happy coincidence.

[TheDemonLord]

Regardless of your opinion of the political leanings of the two people quoted in the various articles

There, fixed it for you.


the general consensus is that it's dumb and not doing what he's claiming

The General Consensus, amongst Whom?

Would that be a media class that irrationally and unreservedly hate him and have demonstrated time and time again that they are willing to Fabricate stories or simply kowtow to the whims of the Democrats to try and discredit him?


and it's hard to overlook the stupid in his post saying that the water was going to Los Angeles when it's demonstrably not.

Where it is going, however, is onto the megafarms in the republican voting counties of california, what a happy coincidence.

Are these the same Megafarms that, according to the two people quoted, are crying out to Trump not to do it, because it will ruin their irrigation needs in the Summer?

Do you see the problem?

You want me to believe on one hand that this is a massive publicity stunt for his voter base and an exercise to enrich his farming mates and simultaneously that those same farming mates are up-in-arms about it nearly flooding their land and ruining their summer water supply.

Now - to be clear, not a hydraulic engineer - I do not know if this move will have the desired effect or not - but the above seemingly contradictory statements suggest to me that the criticism of this action may have some ulterior motives.

And to be quite frank, I am tired of the constant and unreasonable slagging off of Trump. If you believe in Democracy - He won the Popular vote, the house, the Senate and the Presidency. Like it or not - that is one Hell of a mandate from the people.

So, get with the program, it is what the people voted for.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I feel sooooo dirty. I have Starlink interdweebs.

I have had three years of fuckery with lines companies and legacy infrastructure and a mate suggested it. Ordered the hardware, signedup, and idiot me had the thing running in an hour. instantly three times quicker than our current provider. Also 2/3rds the price.

Its like living in the future. Where's my goddamn jet pack. And flying car. and 20 hour work week? And robot sex doll?

My point is that cunty Elong has done two cool things: Starlink, and SpaceX landing that big fucking booster stage. On balance does it make up for all the rest? Probably not, but damn, Starlink is good.

[sugilite]

Just looking at some of Canada's responses to Trump's tariffs. Ontario announced that they was cancelling their new $100 million contract with Musk's Starlink. Canada announced a 100% tariff on Tesla cars. Trump promptly folded.
It's almost as if Trump hadn't thought it through. :whistle:

Cheers for this news Pritch, what a laugh!
Clearly the Canadian Government reads KB and took up my suggestion of targeting musk to end the trade war. :whistle:
So bloody hell, I leave to go out for a day ride to Masterton to clean my grandaughters pool with a us/canada trade war going on in the background, then when I get back the war is over - with the Canucks all sitting round smoking celebratory cigars admiring their trump and musk trophy wall mounts alongside the moose and bear trophies :laugh:

Oh to be a fly on the wall of the whitehouse these days. Canada kicks trump in the cunt, then the cunt has to once again (4th time now?) tell vice president trump to stop his dumb plan. I have no idea why president musk has not sacked trump as a DEI failure?

Oh yes, musk getting full control of the federal payments database, you can bet mush has already done a data dump - considering the value of people data these days, this heist is worth an eye watering amount of money. Turns out buying an election is exceedingly financially rewarding. This is all happening in plain sight and I do believe musk is only just getting warmed up on enriching himself - and the fact it is even happening at all is mind boggling.

[Kickaha]

Now - to be clear, not a hydraulic engineer - I do not know if this move will have the desired effect or not - but the above seemingly contradictory statements suggest to me that the criticism of this action may have some ulterior motives.

It won't, there are multiple sources that say that, the water is not going to or doing what Trump is claiming


And to be quite frank, I am tired of the constant and unreasonable slagging off of Trump. If you believe in Democracy - He won the Popular vote, the house, the Senate and the Presidency. Like it or not - that is one Hell of a mandate from the people.

So, get with the program, it is what the people voted for.

Apart from the illegals being deported they aren't getting what they voted for, but it is early times, he also has the lowest approval rating of any President since WW2 so tell me again how popular he is

[F5 Dave]

Get with the program? Are you still under the misunderstanding that this set of islands is in the usa? Well not yet. We are not American. We have our own program.

[TheDemonLord]

It won't, there are multiple sources that say that, the water is not going to or doing what Trump is claiming

Are these 'multiple sources' in the room with us right now?


Apart from the illegals being deported they aren't getting what they voted for, but it is early times, he also has the lowest approval rating of any President since WW2 so tell me again how popular he is

He is Popular vote, all swing states, the Souse and Senate popular.

You will also note that his approval rating over the last six months or so has been climbing steadily.

As for the first part - Well, as an avid Trump fan, so far he is doing what I would want him to do and what I would have voted for him to do. So I am not sure how you come to the conclusion that they arent getting what they voted for.

In fact - from an outlet that I follow that supports Trump - here is one excellent comment that I think sums it up best:


Elon, what is best in life?

Elon: To cut useless programs and spending, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the leftists!

[TheDemonLord]

Get with the program? Are you still under the misunderstanding that this set of islands is in the usa? Well not yet. We are not American. We have our own program.

Let me put it another way - Trump, in the USA, has an overwhelming mandate. His Policies were voted in by the people.

Curious then, that the people who claim vociferously to 'Defend Democracy' are trying every trick in the book to stymy and thwart his policies.

And yes - we do have our own program - and Chris Luxon, so far has been doing alright. Not as sweeping or as radical as Trump, but still moving in the correct direction.

The UK is the only outlier with Sir Keir Starmer - but funny how people bang on about Trump being the most unpopular president blah blah blah - with an approval rating just below 50% - and virtually no word from the mainstream Media about Sir Keir Starmer on 23%

[pritch]

So Musk's minions from DOGE entered the USAID offices and took down the memorial wall. The USAID staff operate in dangerous circumstances: war zones, disease outbreaks and natural disaster areas. Unsurprisingly some have died in the course of their work. I might be a bit slow but I fail to understand how taking down their memorial wall saves money.

[sugilite]

So, wanna now how farcical trumps trade war excuse with Canada really is?
"According to data from the US Customs and Border Patrol, only about 0.2% of all seizures of fentanyl entering the US are made at the Canadian border, almost all the rest is confiscated at the US border with Mexico." So in 2004, about a suitcase worth at 14.6 kg
But what a great distraction from the fact trump cannot deliver on deporting every illegal immigrant - because that is in fact impossible. I will let John Oliver explain why in the video he made before the US election.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UEhMDAlX1Y&t=903s&pp=ygUmampvaG4gb2xpdmVyIGV4cGxhaW5zIGltbWlncmF0aW9 uIDIwMjQ%3D

Americans need to roll up their sleeves and make the in situ solution of just deporting the criminals and providing work visas to the rest of the immigrants with jobs asap.


Evidence is growing that trump did steal the election. He was illegitimately elected and scammed the judicial system to do it, He should have been in jail, not have been running for office and given the opportunity to steal it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GugeoBUjye4&list=WL&index=1&t=28s&pp=gAQBiAQB

[TheDemonLord]

Evidence is growing that trump did steal the election. He was illegitimately elected and scammed the judicial system to do it, He should have been in jail, not have been running for office and given the opportunity to steal it.


David Pakman is sometimes okay, I have watched a few of his discussions - I found his one with Triggernometry revealing though.

However - *looks over at the last 4 or so years of our back-and-forths in this thread* you sure you wanna open that can of worms.

Remember before the election, I did repeatedly state that in 2024 - under a normal election cycle - if we found that Trump had approximately the same number of Votes he did last time (which he did) and the Dems had significantly less votes than they had under Biden (which they definitely did) - then it would point strongly that the 2020 election was a statistical anomaly (which it was) - and given other fluctuations in vote count, even among objectively wildly popular presidential candidates (such as Obama in 08) - that the 2020 election results were well-outside the norm.

And you (among others) did regularly and gleefully critique that position...

Yet, in 2024, we had a typical election cycle (in terms of voting) and funnily enough, the numbers align with Trumps previous vote totals, the numbers for the Democrats align with the previous vote totals. No 4 am spikes in vote counts. Nothing weird at all.

And now you want to say there is evidence of Fraud...

[sugilite]

Musk now wants people working 120 weeks. He has also said it is illegal to release the names of 6 sleep deprived young interns he has working in his doge scam. Anyone reporting that on X is being instantly being banned. So much for Mr free speech absolutist.

My theory is his ultimate long term goal will be to crash the US economy, have trump blame the fed and introduce something like X coin as the default us currency "to protect the American people." and by happy coincidence be able to clip every transaction ticket from that point on. When the economy turns south as it is already looking to do, watch for the "it's the FED fault" rhetoric to fire up. I've been thinking more on his hitler salutes, while initially I thought it was a troll, my thinking is now that with him being surrounded by adulation at the time got to his head and it was a drunken power move. Considering his families reason for moving to South Africa because they thought apartheid was awesome - it tracks.
Oh yeah. musk just fired the government agency investigator charged with looking into his brain chip. Him having this un-elected all powerful position in the US government allowing free range to look after his own interests is simply insane and disgusting.

[Blackbird]

I follow a blogger in the US who has been a keen motorcyclist for most of his 70 -odd years. I thought a US take on what's happening might be interesting so I've appended his latest outburst:

Can it be Fixed? by Thomas Day

I would seriously love to be wrong in this turning point moment in US and world history, but I think the country is being stripped for parts the same way American companies were savaged starting in the 80s. Vulture capitalism has no national loyalty.

Last night I started working on a spreadsheet to demonstrate how easily someone like the Space Nazi could buy off this country. But it’s been a while since I put together a complicated spreadsheet and this one is complicated. I will finish it, maybe even today and when I do, I’ll write up my results and you’ll see them here. But after I gave up on it and went to bed, I started thinking about how damaged this country has been from Republican actions over the last 45 years, starting with Reagan or, really, starting with Nixon. And that thought stuck with me all through the night, until I woke up this morning comparing the sad remains of the United States of America to my history of abandoned cars because of rust damage from living in the Midwest.

If you’ve never lived in one of the rust belt states you might not have any idea how unrecoverable a car can become in a surprisingly short period of time. A friend of mine, who is a wonderful mechanic in Truth or Consequences NM always remarks on how much rust damage there is to my vehicles, even to the cars that I think are holding up pretty well. If you live in a Rust Belt state and you drive older vehicles, no matter how much work you put into a vehicle trying to keep it alive, sooner or later you’re gonna have to put it down because of rust. 20 some years ago I bought a late 90sFord Taurus station wagon for my wife as a surprise gift. She loved that car and took care of it as well as she'd ever taken care of a mechanical device. Like all Ford Taurus’es, eventually her station wagon needed major transmission work at about 160,000 miles. She really wanted to have the work done, it would have been about $3000 for the repairs. But the back hatch was rusted all along the bottom, the front and rear wheel wells were rusted out, there was major corrosion every place the body attached to the frame, and I made the decision for her to have the car scrapped.

In my 60 years as a car owner, I’ve had to make this decision around two dozen times. Between 1970 and the early 80s, I think I owned at least a half dozen Volkswagen Beetles and I was pretty good at keeping them mechanically maintained. But I lived in Kansas, northwest Texas, and Nebraska during those years and almost all of my driving was through heavily salted roads. I had to make the same decision that we made with that Taurus with every one of those vehicles. Because I’m an audio guy, I often had installed stereo systems in my cars that ended up being worth more than the car and I always removed those stereo systems before scrapping the car. During our lean years, that sound system might have moved from one car to another three or 4 times before it ended up being obsolete. In fact, I have the sound system from my last Ford Escort in one of my garages as the sound system for that work area. That car was also scrapped because of rust.

And now we are at a similar point with the frayed, beat-up, corroded and likely unrepairable remains of the United States of America. Just from my spreadsheet work last night on figuring out how easily Elon Musk could buy the entire Republican Party with his spare change, I have come to the conclusion that this vehicle/Constitution is not repairable. It is too corroded from within and without. We can fight to try to hang on to the good parts, but with 76 million Americans being foolish enough to take careful aim at their own feet and empty their weapons the fight is pretty hopeless. As reported by Forbes Magazine and confirmed by several sources, “the wealth owned by the top 1% of Americans as of the fourth quarter of 2022, according to the Federal Reserve, was $43.45 trillion, compared to $4.16 trillion by the bottom 50% of the Americans during the same period. (Forbes reported in 2021 that the top 1% that year comprised about 1.3 million households making more than $500,000 per year.) Within that that top category, the top 0.01% alone controlled $17.6 trillion in the last quarter of 2022.” Lucky for the “top 1%” literacy and numeracy in the majority of American adults is practically 3rd world (Trump’s “shithole countries”) levels.

The men who founded this nation knew these problems are likely insolvable. They warned against inherited wealth, wealth so great that it would overwhelm the power and contributions of the general population, an uneducated general population, and many of the faults we currently find ourselves mired in. Those same men were also mostly wealthy slave owners and they were afraid that democracy was an unwise (for their wealth and power) experiment. So, they built a “republic” that kept power in the hands of the idle rich and working people have been struggling to wrestle a democracy from a poorly designed republic ever since. Today that struggle is over and oligarchy has won, more than enough American citizens are so easily misdirected and uneducated that they willingly submit themselves to servitude. What happens next will be an example to the world and very well could spell the end for what remains of human civilization. The first week of the new Republican Administration indicates, to me, that this vehicle is rusted beyond repair and will either have to be abandoned or will end up stuck on the side of the road leaving its passengers stranded.

[TheDemonLord]

I follow a blogger in the US who has been a keen motorcyclist for most of his 70 -odd years. I thought a US take on what's happening might be interesting so I've appended his latest outburst:

The last part really does show that this person has either not read or not understood the Federalist papers. Ironically for someone who talks about the uneducated masses.

[pritch]

He has also said it is illegal to release the names of 6 sleep deprived young interns he has working in his doge scam. Anyone reporting that on X is being instantly being banned. So much for Mr free speech absolutist.


The names are freely available. Where a photograph accompanies at least one of the names there is the possibility that care be needed lest the person is apprehended by ICE and sent to Guantanamo Bay.

Musk seems more confused than normal, he doesn't make the laws. Yet. DOGE is not a government department and has no legal standing. Congress alone has the authority to create government departments and they have not yet done so.

The attachment sums up Trumps trade war.

[sugilite]

Thank you for that sobering read Blackbird.

So, White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt, herself an alleged criminal replied she would be an honest spokesperson for the American people in an obviously pre rehersed response to an expected question.
Only minutes later, she was caught through her fucking teeth that 50 million dollars in condoms being sent to the Palestinians:oi-grr: She gets extra dishonesty points for wearing a christian cross while spitting on the thou shall not lie commandment.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360565115/us50-million-condoms-gaza-why-theres-no-evidence-white-houses-claim

So when doge headed by musk who himself has unfortunately has been caught constantly lying pumps out reports like the following....
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/musk-rips-fraudulent-treasury-payments-reports-mount-doge-has-access-federal-payment-system
The lies have make it impossible to believe him, unless you are the maga base that believe everything trump and musk say no matter what and go on to applaud the dismantling of democracy in Americas transition to an oligarchy.

Previously the dems put up an ok fight against trump and his criminality. So what are the dems doing now?
Voting in a anti gun DNC boss, demanding non binary people be promoted to senior positions and rolling out grandad schumer to explain what guacamole is made from in an unconvincing ill contrived plan to show how bad trumps tariffs will be for the American people.

So yeah, Blackbirds mate is right - America is fucked. The only people that think otherwise are the trump apologists who have trumps dick shoved so far down their throat it is cutting off the oxygen supply to their brains.

[neels]

Remember before the election, I did repeatedly state that in 2024 - under a normal election cycle - if we found that Trump had approximately the same number of Votes he did last time (which he did) and the Dems had significantly less votes than they had under Biden (which they definitely did) - then it would point strongly that the 2020 election was a statistical anomaly (which it was) - and given other fluctuations in vote count, even among objectively wildly popular presidential candidates (such as Obama in 08) - that the 2020 election results were well-outside the norm.

And you (among others) did regularly and gleefully critique that position...

Yet, in 2024, we had a typical election cycle (in terms of voting) and funnily enough, the numbers align with Trumps previous vote totals, the numbers for the Democrats align with the previous vote totals. No 4 am spikes in vote counts. Nothing weird at all.
You are correct on a couple of points, the numbers of republican and democrat voters remains fairly constant, and the largest variation is when Obama was elected

The voter turnout appears to have been steadily increasing over the past few election cycles, although slightly decreased in 2024 against that trend.

The statistics would suggest that 2020 was in fact a fairly typical election cycle based on previous trends, with the most significant anomalies being with the two elections that Trump won.

In 2020, the most notable variation is the % of votes for other candidates, likely due to the number of traditional democrat voters who would never vote republican but refused to vote for Hilary, and notwithstanding that the democrats still won the popular vote.

in 2024, the reduced increase in number of eligible voters and corresponding decrease in democrat votes are inconsistent with the previous trends, which leads some credence to the reporting of efforts to disqualify voters from demographics likely to vote democrat.

Otherwise the variations are in the range of single digit percentages which is entirely believable, and are magnified by the distortions of the electoral college system.

355674

[TheDemonLord]

You are correct on a couple of points, the numbers of republican and democrat voters remains fairly constant, and the largest variation is when Obama was elected

The voter turnout appears to have been steadily increasing over the past few election cycles, although slightly decreased in 2024 against that trend.

The statistics would suggest that 2020 was in fact a fairly typical election cycle based on previous trends, with the most significant anomalies being with the two elections that Trump won.

In 2020, the most notable variation is the % of votes for other candidates, likely due to the number of traditional democrat voters who would never vote republican but refused to vote for Hilary, and notwithstanding that the democrats still won the popular vote.

in 2024, the reduced increase in number of eligible voters and corresponding decrease in democrat votes are inconsistent with the previous trends, which leads some credence to the reporting of efforts to disqualify voters from demographics likely to vote democrat.

Otherwise the variations are in the range of single digit percentages which is entirely believable, and are magnified by the distortions of the electoral college system.

355674

Ah - but that is using Percentages, not absolute numbers - I did a similar graph and posted it a while ago, with come commentary - in fact, here it is:


355137

So, I first want to post this crappy little Excel Graph that I took a few minutes to make. Look at the line with Vote Totals, there are some outliers - for example Obama in 2008 is a big jump - but he was widely popular - both right and left agree he was massively popular.

Then you have Biden. This result, statistically, sticks out like a sore thumb.

This does not prove there was fraud, it was stolen or fortified or whatever. I do not have the evidence for that. All I am saying is that Bidens vote count on 2020 is exceedingly suspicious. Especially when the vote tallies before and after for both Trump, Hilary and Kamala are all in-line with each other.

To put it blunty: Biden's vote tally in 2020, now that we've seen both the Republican and Democrat vote tallies in 2024, Stinks.

Obama had a 10 million vote swing, pretty big - but Obama was, in 2008, wildly popular.

Biden had a 16 million vote Swing.

Now - in order to believe that Biden was the most popular President, Ever....

You have to believe that nearly 10 million people - who hated Trump so much that they got off their arses to vote for Biden... either switched their vote to Trump or did not vote at all.

Trump is as divisive today as he was back in 2016 - and in both 2020 and 2024, the same hysteria about him being president was there. Along with all the Lawfare, hoaxes, smears etc.

Quite simply - I think that is an implausible scenario. In fact, I thought it was so implausible that I even predicted what would likely happen:


One thing I am quite looking forward to for this election cycle is to see what the Voting Stats look like. Now, I will grant that since Joe was stabbed in the back and ousted, it is not a perfect like-for-like comparison - but in there are a number of things that I am interested to see what they look like.

For example

- What the total Vote count is. If you look at the last ~20 years of elections, the total vote count has been reasonably consistent for both sides around the 60 Million mark - with notable exceptions being Barack Obamas first election in 2008 (but he was wildly popular then) - but that was only 69 Million - an Increase, but within +/- 10% of other vote tallies. Then you have Biden whose vote tally is 81 Million! Nearly 30% higher than the previous highest vote tally.

- What the split is in certain states. If you look at Georgia between 2020 and 2016, we see Trump with a small increase in his previous tally in that state - everyone that voted for him last time voted again for him this time and a few more. But we see nearly a million extra votes for Biden, that is a 25% increase - whereas if we compare to Obama, we see although he lost that state, his numbers (and again, wildly popular candidate in 2008) are within +/- 10% of previous numbers.

Suffice to say - I am highly interested in what the numbers say.

Now - to be clear, if the numbers settle back down to be in-line with previous election cycles, it does not mean that there was or was not any form of fraud or election cheating or anything. And certainly it is not evidence enough to stand in front of a Judge and deliver a convincing argument.

But, to my dear friends who frequent these arguments - should that come to pass, would you be willing to say that the 2020 election results were disproportionately unusual?

And I dare say - I was pretty bang on with my predictions - both the Republican and Democrat candidates in 2024 had results that were within the reasonable expected limits, based on all other election results.

[sugilite]

in 2024, the reduced increase in number of eligible voters and corresponding decrease in democrat votes are inconsistent with the previous trends, which leads some credence to the reporting of efforts to disqualify voters from demographics likely to vote democrat.

Otherwise the variations are in the range of single digit percentages which is entirely believable, and are magnified by the distortions of the electoral college system.


Thank you for the great post.
The magas launched so many voter suppression laws over the last 4 years, the dems could not keep up with fighting them.
I "think" it was Georgia lot that got a law through that anyone, and I mean anyone could protest a persons right to vote, and that person instantly became ineligible to vote. Militias of magas founded online groups protesting countless voters and you can bet the maga rulers will never release those numbers. And that was just one scheme to subvert democracy and give trump an illegitimate win.
Note: I see you quoted tdls posts which I no longer see, just keep in mind when reading his answer, that it was written by the only person I ever saw that was upset that trump did not get enough press for the failed assassination attempt. I was not even seeing that from mainstream maga on fox news etc. So I guess tdl is ultra elite maga?

In breaking news, it looks like netanyahu must of handsomely donated to trumps slush fund. trump is proposing the US take over the Gaza strip.
trump may not of started any wars last time, but looks to be definitely making up for it this round.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360571414/trump-says-he-wants-us-take-charge-gaza-strip-press-conference-netanyahu

[pritch]

Things that could bite you on the arse... The latest from the fuckwit in chief is that the US military will occupy Gaza, clear it and develop it as a waterfront property. The Palestinians will be moved out to Egypt or Jordan neither of which want them or anywhere. Nobody has consulted the Palestinians about this.

[neels]

Ah - but that is using Percentages, not absolute numbers - Fair point. Percentages can be misleading, as can only using part of the data for absolute numbers.

So, in actual numbers;
The number of people of voting age increased in line with continuing trend.
The number of republican votes increased, as would be expected with increase in people of voting age.

But;
The increase in number of eligible voters did not track the number of people of voting age in line with the previous trend
Along with a 2% lower voter turnout this meant the total number of votes cast decreased for the first time in 20 years
Oddly, this unusually reduced increase in eligible voters and decrease in total votes cast appears to have only affected the democrat vote.

That should be plenty for a conspiracy theorist to get started with.

355676

[TheDemonLord]

Fair point. Percentages can be misleading, as can only using part of the data for absolute numbers.

So, in actual numbers;
The number of people of voting age increased in line with continuing trend.
The number of republican votes increased, as would be expected with increase in people of voting age.

But;
The increase in number of eligible voters did not track the number of people of voting age in line with the previous trend
Along with a 2% lower voter turnout this meant the total number of votes cast decreased for the first time in 20 years
Oddly, this unusually reduced increase in eligible voters and decrease in total votes cast appears to have only affected the democrat vote.

That should be plenty for a conspiracy theorist to get started with.

355676

If you exclude the 2020 results as an outlier - does the above still stand (e.g. comparing 2016 and 2024) - I havent run that analysis, so am interest in if it still tracks.

[TheDemonLord]

Things that could bite you on the arse... The latest from the fuckwit in chief is that the US military will occupy Gaza, clear it and develop it as a waterfront property. The Palestinians will be moved out to Egypt or Jordan neither of which want them or anywhere. Nobody has consulted the Palestinians about this.

Any word on why Egypt or Jordan dont want them...

So - I watched the speech, it is typical Trumpian grand statements - but the reporting on it is wildly dishonest.

He talks about first clearing out damaged buildings, then dealing with unexploded ordinance, then rebuilding it for the people that live there.

Now - some might think that this means Israeli settlers that will move in - but he never said that. It sounds like to me that he wants to move everyone out, like you would a building site, then once it is finished, allow people to move back in.

Personally - I think this is not a great idea - but I have a suspicion that there are some ulterior motives at play. Lots of commentators pointing to Netenyahu physically reacting to when Trump said the US will own it.

If the US owns it, then Israel doesnt.

But more likely... This is some public bluster that will get all the various parties second-guessing themselves in preparation for when the actual negotiations take place.

[husaberg]

Things that could bite you on the arse... The latest from the fuckwit in chief is that the US military will occupy Gaza, clear it and develop it as a waterfront property. The Palestinians will be moved out to Egypt or Jordan neither of which want them or anywhere. Nobody has consulted the Palestinians about this.

Few people raise questions on why Egypt actually blockades gazza themselves or how it was actually Jordan that stole most of palestine land from Palestine . yet its israel that gets blamed for stealing palestine's land. (yes I am aware that israel then stole some of Jordan and Egypt during wars ), But they gave back the Sinai to egypt they won in a war after Egypt formally recognized them.
Jordan gave up claims on the land they annexed from palestine in the late 80's
but in between the late 40 and 88 when they gave up claims to the west bank, they gave the Palestinians full citizenship of Jordan.

[pritch]

Meanwhile in Italy... Trump Junior has been duck shooting. That's interesting because apparently the law in Italy says only Italians can hunt in Italy. It seems there may be sound reasons for that. After his shoot Junior filmed his bag while commenting that it had been a great shoot. One of the dead "ducks" though was a rare, protected, sheldrake. politicians and prosecutors want to prosecute. They had better watch out though there will be tariffs.

[sugilite]

But;
The increase in number of eligible voters did not track the number of people of voting age in line with the previous trend
Along with a 2% lower voter turnout this meant the total number of votes cast decreased for the first time in 20 years
Oddly, this unusually reduced increase in eligible voters and decrease in total votes cast appears to have only affected the democrat vote.

That should be plenty for a conspiracy theorist to get started with.

Cheers for the informative numbers and chart. :yes:
This marries up perfectly with what I was watching on a youtube channel that was "attempting" to track the countless voter suppression wars the magas were pushing in mostly the swing states over the last 4 years. Long story short, there were so many they were overwhelmed trying to track them all.
Not much conspiracy theory mongering to be done with that level of correlated evidence being supplied. Unlike 2016 where trump legitimately won, this time around he is an illegitimate "president" that had to do it with fraud - color me shocked. Anyways, those facts are certainly more compelling than recent desperate attempts at pulling in unrelated countries migration situations and a single crop harvested hundreds of years ago when the USA had a fraction of the population it has now - all in service to prop up an ill conceived and debunked deport them all first plan :whistle:

[nerrrd]

So now the US is going to ‘own’ Gaza? How long is this latest revelation going to last I wonder, and what’s the incredible ‘win’ President Trump is going for here…

The US is going to take over Gaza, no really (https://www.bbc.com/news/live/clyn05y9x2xt)

[Berries]

He talks about first clearing out damaged buildings, then dealing with unexploded ordinance, then rebuilding it for the people that live there.

Now - some might think that this means Israeli settlers that will move in - but he never said that. It sounds like to me that he wants to move everyone out,
I wonder if he will use special trains to do that.

If no other countries will accept the Palestinians I guess Trump could make some temporary camps and off load them there. Certainly looks like that is the final solution Netenyahu is after.

[nerrrd]

Help I could understand, which might even be welcome, but ‘own’? Unless he means ‘own’ as in ‘owning the libs’? Or ‘own’ as in ‘take responsibility for’, given the source of a lot of the ordinance used is the US.

Words should matter.

[TheDemonLord]

Help I could understand, which might even be welcome, but ‘own’? Unless he means ‘own’ as in ‘owning the libs’? Or ‘own’ as in ‘take responsibility for’, given the source of a lot of the ordinance used is the US.

Words should matter.

If I put my Theory hat for a moment - no one can do anything with that bit of land without laying a solid ownership claim on it.

But my thoughts on this is that this is Trumpian hand grenade. It may be a Dud, it may be a Flashbang, it may be a Frag. We dont know - but what I am more-and-more becoming convinced of, is that this is part of some ploy.

To what end, I do not know - maybe it is to force Israels hand - but I feel this is more aimed at the likes of Saudi Arabia.

We shall see.

I did read a BBC article that I felt was 90 percent rubbish - except for a couple of lines talking about Trump coveting a Noble Peace prize - and if he can achieve some meaningful positive change in the Middle East (on top of what he has already done) - then objectively he would be eligible for it.

One wonders.

[F5 Dave]

I wonder if he will use special trains to do that.

If no other countries will accept the Palestinians I guess Trump could make some temporary camps and off load them there. Certainly looks like that is the final solution Netenyahu is after.

Oohh you are terrible.

So who would be terribly surprised if that crackpot idea was enacted. I mean like suspend belief that the Palastines a group a a similar size to our whole country, said Heck yeah. Let's move to a place where we have no birthright or claim to legitimacy. . . And that other countries would take them. I mean Heck. Trumbf is trying to get rid of people from other countries.
Anyway. Who would be surprised if Trumbf in 5 years said, OK Israel, how bout you hold the tiller. Giving them exactly what they wanted.


Ohh. Shocking. Duh!

[Berries]

It just seems to me that Trump wants to help out with the genocide even more than just selling all the bullets and the bombs.

Not that he will be around in five years.

Interesting read here about the coup that Musk has carried out, and before anyone asks I have no idea who the author is, whether he is left or right or who he votes for and I don't care. i just thought it was an interesting perspective on the whole very unusual Musk issue.

of-course-its-a-coup (https://snyder.substack.com/p/of-course-its-a-coup)

[sugilite]

That perspective is very difficult to fault. Thank you for posting that.

[nerrrd]

If I put my Theory hat for a moment - no one can do anything with that bit of land without laying a solid ownership claim on it.

But my thoughts on this is that this is Trumpian hand grenade. It may be a Dud, it may be a Flashbang, it may be a Frag. We dont know - but what I am more-and-more becoming convinced of, is that this is part of some ploy.

To what end, I do not know - maybe it is to force Israels hand - but I feel this is more aimed at the likes of Saudi Arabia.

We shall see.

I did read a BBC article that I felt was 90 percent rubbish - except for a couple of lines talking about Trump coveting a Noble Peace prize - and if he can achieve some meaningful positive change in the Middle East (on top of what he has already done) - then objectively he would be eligible for it.

One wonders.

I hope it’s a ploy, but surely there’s only so many times you can feint before your opponents begin to catch on. Then what?

[Kickaha]

That perspective is very difficult to fault. Thank you for posting that.

Someone will be along shortly to tell you how wrong you are

[TheDemonLord]

It just seems to me that Trump wants to help out with the genocide even more than just selling all the bullets and the bombs.

Not that he will be around in five years.

Interesting read here about the coup that Musk has carried out, and before anyone asks I have no idea who the author is, whether he is left or right or who he votes for and I don't care. i just thought it was an interesting perspective on the whole very unusual Musk issue.

of-course-its-a-coup (https://snyder.substack.com/p/of-course-its-a-coup)

So, a historian that specializes in Holocaust and Nazi Germany - thinks Trump is a Dictator.

Skim-reading, the guy has full blown TDS. In his other works make multiple desperate references to Nazi history (Krystallnacht, Reichstag fire etc.)

Note - the one thing he never mentions in his article is that no Dictator in history ever shrunk the size of Government. Turns out that in order to oppress people you need to increase the size of the Government....

However - I want to focus solely on one area:


In gaining the ability to stop payments by the Department of the Treasury, Musk would also make democracy meaningless. We vote for representatives in Congress, who pass laws that determine how our tax money is spent. If Musk has the power to halt this process at the level of payment, he can make laws meaningless. Which means, in turn, that Congress is meaningless, and our votes are meaningless, as is our citizenship

A wonderful peice of sweeping rhetorhic. Now, if I had made similar grandiose claims during the Biden or Stalinda premierships - the various baying herds would have laughed at me - but it is against Trump and not the Left-Wing, which means it is okay to do and is supported by the Left-Wing Media etc....

However those who are well read in American politics would know that this is not the case. Control of the executive branch of the US Government is entirely the purview of The President and those they appoint.

This little bait-and-switch is rather telling, especially from a man who has published a great wealth of work on how to recognize Propaganda.

Case-in-point: The FBI - signed into existence by Charles Bonaparte, then Attorney General (which is part of the Executive branch, not Congress)

Musk, as an appointment by the President just like the creation of the FBI does get to go in and halt payments that are under the purview of the executive branch.

Congress is the legislative branch. Which leads to the following conclusion:

Either this individual does not know how the US political system functions - and given his prolific number of writings on the subject, I dont think that is a reasonable one....

Or he is lying.

And someone with full blown TDS who sees Nazi Parrallels with everything Trump does - would they lie to their audience to gin up book sales and feverish outrage?

Sounds a lot more likely than not knowing the basics of the US political system, doesn't it.

[TheDemonLord]

I hope it’s a ploy, but surely there’s only so many times you can feint before your opponents begin to catch on. Then what?

That is the thing though - Trump seems to have this wonderful ability to throw out 10 impossible things - and once all the chaos and gnashing of teeth settles - the opposition has agreed to 3 of them that they otherwise would not have agreed to.

[Berries]

Sounds a lot more likely than not knowing the basics of the US political system, doesn't it.
Don't know, don't care.

I posted it for people to read not as an essay subject.

That came out wrong, no offence meant

[TheDemonLord]

Don't know, don't care.

I posted it for people to read not as an essay subject.

If Trump said something that was to the same degree, factually untrue - there would be media articles about it - at least 4 regular contributors here would be posting links to outrage articles in the Guardian etc.

I read it - yes, from an admittedly hostile perspective, but what I saw within was wild conjecture, historical illiteracy (which given his specialist field is hilarious) and hyperbole of the highest order.

I posted a quote to show how his entire chain of 'Logic' to infer that:

if Musk can stop US Tax payer money being wasted on ideological crusades in foreign countries, then that means a US Citizenship is no longer valid...

Is all predicated on a lie. And I use lie because for someone as well read and well written as him, ignorance simply does not pass the sniff test.

[pritch]

Shot!

IIRC it was Ms Lahren's ancestor who was prosecuted for forging immigration papers way back when. She is MAGA so is probably anti-immigrant but not a deep thinker.

[sugilite]

First criminally convicted illegitimately elected trump fired prosecutors working on his cases, and now he is going after individual FBI agents assigned to do investigations by their superiors. They were investigating a crime everyone saw being committed on tv. It is not like agents have a choice to investigate or not based on whether they liked the perp or if they were one political side or the other. This one FBI agent that wrote the letter, listen to all the good he has done for the country, how many he has protected, the sacrifices he has made. The FBI are about to lose many, many like him and people will die without their experienced service - no doubt about that. All in order to appease a thin skinned vindictive piece of shit.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOyMpQHiCVA

[sugilite]

Trump admits his blaming the air tragedy on DEI was a disgusting political stunt. Naturally he will not learn from this and will continue doing the same to keep his demonmagas blindly defending him.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360573744/trump-blames-obsolete-us-air-traffic-control-system-airliner-and-black-hawk-helicopter-collision

[TheDemonLord]

First criminally convicted illegitimately elected trump fired prosecutors working on his cases, and now he is going after individual FBI agents assigned to do investigations by their superiors. They were investigating a crime everyone saw being committed on tv. It is not like agents have a choice to investigate or not based on whether they liked the perp or if they were one political side or the other. This one FBI agent that wrote the letter, listen to all the good he has done for the country, how many he has protected, the sacrifices he has made. The FBI are about to lose many, many like him and people will die without their experienced service - no doubt about that. All in order to appease a thin skinned vindictive piece of shit.

So, the FBI were 'Only following Orders'....

[F5 Dave]

Jesus you are Scum.

Everyone should be prosecuted if they break the law.
And yes you can throw Hunter Biden or Hillary under the bus, I would include all if they meet the threshold.

No one should be above the law.

Don't try to use Whataboutism. You have no moral compass. You will justify anything in the name of your Orange Jesus.

[TheDemonLord]

Jesus you are Scum.

Everyone should be prosecuted if they break the law.
And yes you can throw Hunter Biden or Hillary under the bus, I would include all if they meet the threshold.

No one should be above the law.

Don't try to use Whataboutism. You have no moral compass. You will justify anything in the name of your Orange Jesus.

Many people, before Trump got back into office - pointed out the politically charged nature of these 'Investigations'

Like here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump-4-more-years-of-this-at-least?p=1131215161)

and here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump-4-more-years-of-this-at-least?p=1131186599)

or here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump-4-more-years-of-this-at-least?p=1131208048)

Whether it was the Russia Hoax that originated from the Hilary Campaign, the Laptop that was totally *not* Hunters, The Document raids, the moving a misdemenor crime that had expired the statute of limitations to a federal charge, by asserting it was done in the aid of a crime (that no one can agree what crime it was done in aid of...) - the fact is, The US Justice department went after a Presidential candidate like no other time in history that I can think of.

And everyone who went along with it is complicit.

All those agents had to do was stand on principles and say that it was politically motivated - but they didnt. They did the dirty work to appease their democrat masters - and now those cows are coming home to roost.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, they are getting the consequences of their actions - and I couldnt be happier.

[sugilite]

I have bad news for these guys - nazi musk will have 100% already put in back doors into the system as he already had access to it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USTtVrIYHpE

[F5 Dave]

Many people, before Trump got back into office - pointed out the politically charged nature of these 'Investigations'

Like here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump-4-more-years-of-this-at-least?p=1131215161)

and here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump-4-more-years-of-this-at-least?p=1131186599)

or here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump-4-more-years-of-this-at-least?p=1131208048)

Whether it was the Russia Hoax that originated from the Hilary Campaign, the Laptop that was totally *not* Hunters, The Document raids, the moving a misdemenor crime that had expired the statute of limitations to a federal charge, by asserting it was done in the aid of a crime (that no one can agree what crime it was done in aid of...) - the fact is, The US Justice department went after a Presidential candidate like no other time in history that I can think of.

And everyone who went along with it is complicit.

All those agents had to do was stand on principles and say that it was politically motivated - but they didnt. They did the dirty work to appease their democrat masters - and now those cows are coming home to roost.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, they are getting the consequences of their actions - and I couldnt be happier.
Your entire post is Whataboutism. The point was not to use it.

[pritch]

I have bad news for these guys - nazi musk will have 100% already put in back doors into the system as he already had access to it.


Highly likely. Most politicians will not even be aware of the possibility. Ted Lieu is one of the very few people in Congress who understands IT. Computer people and politicians are usually very different people. Computer people mostly work alone problem solving. Politicians are herd creatures happiest in a meeting. (Meetings have the bonus in that you can get paid for sitting doing nothing.)

[pritch]

Your entire post is Whataboutism. The point was not to use it.

Geez don't quote DTL I'm trying to avoid the aggravation. For instance he mentioned the" Russia hoax". It wasn't hoax, it was proven. There were hundreds of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia, there was an office in Moscow operated by military intelligence and US arrest warrants were issued for the operators, there was the misinformation office the IRA in St Petersburg. This was all proven. Trump's campaign chairman was sent to prison. That Trump claims it was all a hoax is just not credible.

[R650R]

Many people, before Trump got back into office - pointed out the politically charged nature of these 'Investigations'

Like here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump-4-more-years-of-this-at-least?p=1131215161)

and here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump-4-more-years-of-this-at-least?p=1131186599)

or here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188513-Trump-4-more-years-of-this-at-least?p=1131208048)

Whether it was the Russia Hoax that originated from the Hilary Campaign, the Laptop that was totally *not* Hunters, The Document raids, the moving a misdemenor crime that had expired the statute of limitations to a federal charge, by asserting it was done in the aid of a crime (that no one can agree what crime it was done in aid of...) - the fact is, The US Justice department went after a Presidential candidate like no other time in history that I can think of.

And everyone who went along with it is complicit.

All those agents had to do was stand on principles and say that it was politically motivated - but they didnt. They did the dirty work to appease their democrat masters - and now those cows are coming home to roost.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, they are getting the consequences of their actions - and I couldnt be happier.

Yep the hysteria before the election about what trump would try to do to them. Because they knew a lot of it was politically motivated and not legit. They knew how crazy it was to go down that path and worried it could happen to them.

Trumps about doing business though and making America great again. He knows that it’s the better option to just let go all those involved in that and start again. Running a big witch-hunt through court system like other lot did is just expensive and time consuming distraction for zero return.

And the ending of USAID is torpedoing a lot of the previous shenanigans. We thought it was bad Jacinda gave press 50 million to get them inside. Biden gave USA media outlets 50 billion through usaid. One of them mysteriously can’t pay its workers now despite previously appearing as a solid organisation.

https://joannenova.com.au/2025/02/ngos-emerge-as-the-shadow-government/

https://joannenova.com.au/2025/02/usaid-gave-68-million-to-the-wef-billionaires-ski-club-at-davos/

“It turns out the Non-Government Organizations were really The Government
The word for that is GONGO — a government organised non-government organization — at once, an impossible thing and also a tautology.

Hands up who is still reeling with the news that USAID had 50 thousand million dollars of political and media influence? The annual budget of $50 billion dollars in the hands of unaccountable activist NGOs buys a lot of “journalists”, editors and teenage protestors. Suddenly a lot of odd repeated patterns around the world make more sense. Why were all governments suddenly worried about disinformation, or the rights of…

Today we found out that news outlets like Politico, and the New York Times were being given millions of dollars from the US government.

Benny Johnson says:

This is the biggest scandal in news media history: No employee at Politico got paid yesterday. First time ever the company missed a pay period. This is a crisis. Now we learn Politico — a “news company” — which spent the last 10 years trying to destroy the MAGA Movement was being massively funded by USAID.

It seems some $27 million dollars went to Politico during the Biden years — and that’s just the subscriptions (not the USAID). Truly, Politico charges as much as $10,000 for a single “Politico Pro” subscription — and so the taxpayers fork out big bucks to pay for politicians “work expenses”, and the money ends up covering the salaries of journalists who are working hard to deceive the hapless taxpayers.

As ZeroHedge reminds us, Politico went in hard in the 2020 election to cover for the Hunter Biden laptop from hell.

They also point out that the Blob has many other ways to keep newspapers toeing the line…

It’s not just the subscriptions: there are huge “ad contracts”, dinner parties DC throws itself under the guise of “media conferences”, sponsorships, etc all paid for by taxpayers. Once done with Politico look at its spawn Axios, founded by Politico veterans”

[sugilite]

If any of that is even true, as musk and trump lie to a ridiculous degree (50 million on condoms to the palastinians for example), imagine the wastage, and snouts in the troughs over at the defense department. I wonder if they will look over there since the usaid is less than 1% (which is still a lot) of the us budget, and defense is 13%. Hint, they wont because billionaires be making billions over there. :rolleyes:

The absurdity of a bunch of the poorest people in the US putting the richest people into power thinking they will look after them :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[pritch]

If any of that is even true, as musk and trump lie to a ridiculous degree (50 million on condoms to the palastinians for example),

The DEI hire White House press secretary claimed it was fifty million. Trump doubled it to 100 million.

Meanwhile the latest Time magazine cover is going to cause problems in Paradise. It features Musk seated at the desk of the US President.

[TheDemonLord]

Your entire post is Whataboutism. The point was not to use it.

Whataboutism would be to say that the Democrats did far worse.

I didnt say that. I said they are getting the consequences of their actions. Big difference.

Many people pointed out that this was going to be the result.

[TheDemonLord]

Geez don't quote DTL I'm trying to avoid the aggravation. For instance hee mentioned the" Russia hoax". It wasn't hoax, it was proven. There were hundreds of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia, there was an office in Moscow operated by military intelligence and US arrest warrants were issued for the operators, there was the misinformation office the IRA in St Petersburg. This was all proven. Trump's campaign chairman was sent to prison. That Trump claims it was all a hoax is just not credible.

Just missing the part where Russia helped win the 2016 election.

If you could provide proof of that...

[sugilite]

The DEI hire White House press secretary claimed it was fifty million. Trump doubled it to 100 million.

Meanwhile the latest Time magazine cover is going to cause problems in Paradise. It features Musk seated at the desk of the US President.

More to that, 8 days ago time was being complimented by cult leader, now it is trash. what could of happened in that time? :whistle:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyQIzfV04T4&t=157s

Also, it is jolly nice of musk to give marxism a leg up with the Chinese looking to swoop heroically in and pick up the usaid slack and soft power that comes with it. A big beautiful Chinese new years gift from the nazi one :yes:

[TheDemonLord]

If any of that is even true, as musk and trump lie to a ridiculous degree (50 million on condoms to the palastinians for example), imagine the wastage, and snouts in the troughs over at the defense department. I wonder if they will look over there since the usaid is less than 1% (which is still a lot) of the us budget, and defense is 13%. Hint, they wont because billionaires be making billions over there. :rolleyes:

The absurdity of a bunch of the poorest people in the US putting the richest people into power thinking they will look after them :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Many people, both Left and Right have long been critical of excessive spending in the Military Industrial Complex.

However - and I think this is worth noting:

The classic example of the $600 Hammer in the Military (that has been going on since the 80s) - let us run through that:

The US Military pays a US company for an over-priced hammer, part of which goes to US workers, the rest gets re-invested - either to the company or to the executives in bonuses.

It is largesse, it is snouts in the trough, it should be sorted.

However, it is not the same as spending Millions of dollars to fund overseas Leftist activist organizations.

And this is where a key difference is:

Military spending is politically neutral. It does not benefit either side. However, what we are seeing with some of the USAID revelations is that there is an awful lot of spending to Left-wing news outlets, an awful lot of spending on overseas DIE programs, an awful lot of spending on overseas Alphabet spending - all of which has a distinct political bent.

Finding out that there has been a concerted effort by the Government to spend tax revenue on leftist activism is a vindication for a number of people who have been claiming this for years.

And I will be honest - I did not think it would be that flagrant.

[TheDemonLord]

Also, it is jolly nice of musk to give marxism a leg up with the Chinese looking to swoop heroically in and pick up the usaid slack and soft power that comes with it. A big beautiful Chinese new years gift from the nazi one :yes:

Remember how the Soviet Union collapsed - they tried to out-spend the USA and lost.

Just a thought...

[R650R]

If any of that is even true, as musk and trump lie to a ridiculous degree (50 million on condoms to the palastinians for example), imagine the wastage, and snouts in the troughs over at the defense department. I wonder if they will look over there since the usaid is less than 1% (which is still a lot) of the us budget, and defense is 13%. Hint, they wont because billionaires be making billions over there. :rolleyes:

The absurdity of a bunch of the poorest people in the US putting the richest people into power thinking they will look after them :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Ahem it might go pay to check the net worth of Democrat party leaders, they are all well up there st that level. Much of a deal is made about insider trading. Do you know it’s only a $200 fine? A lot of financial news channels follow what these people do with their money. Nancy pelosi recently triggered a stock rise when it was revealed what she was buying into.
Albeit musk is at another level financially but most political people are savvy investors.
And just what did the democrats do for the poor people in last four years to raise their income or standard of living?
Rampant illegal immigration dosnt doing anything for wage bargaining power for sure.

The poor are only poor because the education system doesn’t give them the full picture and instruction on how to get ahead regardless of who is in power and it’s same in nz.

The defence industry may be in for a shakeup, have a read up on Palantir. Soon AI systems will properly track and account for all spending plus new players are threatening the legacy contractors who have been slow on the uptake of drone and unmanned type system deployments.

[sugilite]

Ahem it might go pay to check the net worth of Democrat party leaders, they are all well up there st that level.

Please note my lack of defining which color ties the pigs gorging from the trough are wearing - they are politicians, so they will pretty much all have their snouts in there.


The defence industry may be in for a shakeup, have a read up on Palantir. Soon AI systems will properly track and account for all spending plus new players are threatening the legacy contractors who have been slow on the uptake of drone and unmanned type system deployments.

With billionaires likely supplying the AI software - does not have me expecting a lot of change, just an extra level of sophistication in the scam. <_<

[pete376403]

More to that, 8 days ago time was being complimented by cult leader, now it is trash. what could of happened in that time? :whistle:



Also, it is jolly nice of musk to give marxism a leg up with the Chinese looking to swoop heroically in and pick up the usaid slack and soft power that comes with it. A big beautiful Chinese new years gift from the nazi one :yes:


Year of the Snake, seems appropriate.

[nerrrd]

Yep the hysteria before the election about what trump would try to do to them. Because they knew a lot of it was politically motivated and not legit. They knew how crazy it was to go down that path and worried it could happen to them.

Trumps about doing business though and making America great again. He knows that it’s the better option to just let go all those involved in that and start again. Running a big witch-hunt through court system like other lot did is just expensive and time consuming distraction for zero return.

And the ending of USAID is torpedoing a lot of the previous shenanigans. We thought it was bad Jacinda gave press 50 million to get them inside. Biden gave USA media outlets 50 billion through usaid. One of them mysteriously can’t pay its workers now despite previously appearing as a solid organisation.

https://joannenova.com.au/2025/02/ngos-emerge-as-the-shadow-government/

https://joannenova.com.au/2025/02/usaid-gave-68-million-to-the-wef-billionaires-ski-club-at-davos/

“It turns out the Non-Government Organizations were really The Government
The word for that is GONGO — a government organised non-government organization — at once, an impossible thing and also a tautology.

Hands up who is still reeling with the news that USAID had 50 thousand million dollars of political and media influence? The annual budget of $50 billion dollars in the hands of unaccountable activist NGOs buys a lot of “journalists”, editors and teenage protestors. Suddenly a lot of odd repeated patterns around the world make more sense. Why were all governments suddenly worried about disinformation, or the rights of…

Today we found out that news outlets like Politico, and the New York Times were being given millions of dollars from the US government.

Benny Johnson says:

This is the biggest scandal in news media history: No employee at Politico got paid yesterday. First time ever the company missed a pay period. This is a crisis. Now we learn Politico — a “news company” — which spent the last 10 years trying to destroy the MAGA Movement was being massively funded by USAID.

It seems some $27 million dollars went to Politico during the Biden years — and that’s just the subscriptions (not the USAID). Truly, Politico charges as much as $10,000 for a single “Politico Pro” subscription — and so the taxpayers fork out big bucks to pay for politicians “work expenses”, and the money ends up covering the salaries of journalists who are working hard to deceive the hapless taxpayers.

As ZeroHedge reminds us, Politico went in hard in the 2020 election to cover for the Hunter Biden laptop from hell.

They also point out that the Blob has many other ways to keep newspapers toeing the line…

It’s not just the subscriptions: there are huge “ad contracts”, dinner parties DC throws itself under the guise of “media conferences”, sponsorships, etc all paid for by taxpayers. Once done with Politico look at its spawn Axios, founded by Politico veterans”

So paying for a service now is evidence of corruption? That’s bad news for capitalism going forward.

[Laava]

Credited to Banksy but seemed no point fact checking it…

[pritch]

The current "scare word" to keep the right leaning voters in line is DEI. Biden's press secretary was said to be DEI, well she was black and an immigrant. The attachment compares her credentials to Trump's press secretary who actually is a DEI hire. Blonde bimbos need an interest.

[F5 Dave]

Geez don't quote DTL I'm trying to avoid the aggravation. For instance he mentioned the" Russia hoax". It wasn't hoax, it was proven. There were hundreds of contacts between the Trump campaign and Russia, there was an office in Moscow operated by military intelligence and US arrest warrants were issued for the operators, there was the misinformation office the IRA in St Petersburg. This was all proven. Trump's campaign chairman was sent to prison. That Trump claims it was all a hoax is just not credible.
Sorry, I don't know why I viewed hidden post . It's just verbal diarrhea typed out. I'll leave it unread again.

[pritch]

For the record... You may recall Trump stating that Canada does not allow US banks to operate in Canada and how Canada is very unfair to the US. Turns out that's another total fiction. About 50% of the foreign banks operating in Canada are American. They employ hundreds of people doing the usual business big banks do.

[Kickaha]

However, it is not the same as spending Millions of dollars to fund overseas Leftist activist organizations.

How much of it was actually used for that purpose and what did those organisations use it for ?

Pity about the 2 billion dollars American farmers will now miss out on from the USAID same program

[pritch]

Please allow me to introduce... No, not myself, but Patrick Duffy Trump's newly appointed Transportation Secretary. And also to observe that I'm eternally grateful that we didn't have cell phones and the Internet when I was young enough to do full stupid.

[sugilite]

Please allow me to introduce... No, not myself, but Patrick Duffy Trump's newly appointed Transportation Secretary. And also to observe that I'm eternally grateful that we didn't have cell phones and the Internet when I was young enough to do full stupid.

Is he wearing one of those used golden nappies trump has been hawking off? Duffy is not wearing the matching sneakers, so must of just barely qualified for the job.

[TheDemonLord]

How much of it was actually used for that purpose and what did those organisations use it for ?

The cynic in me says that most of it was probably used for enriching a few people who are skilled at obtaining Government grants.

But even if that is the case, many of the ones that are coming out of the woodwork are of dubious benefit to the American people.


Pity about the 2 billion dollars American farmers will now miss out on from the USAID same program

So, that is an example of something which should be brought into the public domain, discussed and if the American people see it as something that is a good use of their Tax Dollars, then it will continue.

However - this clip of Brett Weinstein - specifically starting around 8 minutes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yj9jXMEzCZY

I think is a great articulation - essentially there may be so much anger that the baby is thrown out with the bath water - which speaks to your point - there may be good programs that get canned in the purge.

[Kickaha]

What else has he been up to

"President Trump on Friday directed government officials to prioritize the resettlement of South Africans of European descent through the U.S. refugee program, which he suspended during his first day in office"

Well I guess they're the right colour for him to make an exception

[R650R]

You’d think “independent “ media would mean that your sole survival does not rests on “ donations” from a USA govt outlet

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360574223/independent-media-russia-ukraine-lose-their-funding-usaid-freeze

I can understand the Ukraine stuff with war damage and all but to be funding “journalists” inside Russia is a whole new level of crazy.
And let’s just remember what was said of RT news channel in USA who used to make some great documentary’s before the war.

[Katman]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/iZtXQNDJJm4?si=vw7QswhcnnBD5XOL" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

It's long.....but rivetting.

[husaberg]

Far more riveting ........:msn-wink:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNQz-KBlEkU

[TheDemonLord]

It's long.....but rivetting.

Even if you dont agree with either party - the Meta-discussion seems to be this:

Benz is saying that the US needs a soft-diplomacy option - to help with US interests.
Tucker is saying that the cost - both in actual dollar terms and outcomes is not worth it.

Furthermore Tucker seems to be of the opinion that even if we accept Benz point about Soft-power, such a system is too easily corrupted and too easily turned on the American people - especially considering that Washington DC is almost entirely dominated by one side of the Political spectrum.

On the one hand, those who talked about US interference with say Social Media censorship and talked about how a certain agenda kept getting pushed have got the vindication that it was artificially being done.

Then there is the question - even with all the information coming to light - will we truly know the extent of what is being going on.

I imagine people in other Government agencies are seeing the dirty laundry being aired at USAID and ensuring some of the more juicy bits of information are accidentally misfiled.

[pritch]

And some people still can't see that Trump's an idiot? He wasn't bright to start with and now he's had dementia for yers.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Vpj9Eybsahk

[pete376403]

Even if you dont agree with either party - the Meta-discussion seems to be this:

Benz is saying that the US needs a soft-diplomacy option - to help with US interests.
Tucker is saying that the cost - both in actual dollar terms and outcomes is not worth it.

Furthermore Tucker seems to be of the opinion that even if we accept Benz point about Soft-power, such a system is too easily corrupted and too easily turned on the American people - especially considering that Washington DC is almost entirely dominated by one side of the Political spectrum.d.

Has it happened already? Musk and his band of fratboys who have access and control to the entire government financial system?

[TheDemonLord]

Has it happened already? Musk and his band of fratboys who have access and control to the entire government financial system?

Even if I assume the implication of this comment - it is no better or no worse than what has already been happening (and I would argue it is better - since Musk doesnt want to Leftist ideology globally)

[pritch]

Trump's and DOGE's list of cost cutting targets includes the Environmental Protection Agency of course. That could end the $7,500 federal tax credit for electric vehicles. If so California, the biggest EV market in the country, will introduce its own tax credit for EVs - excluding Tesla.

[dangerous]

It's about time several threads went to pink hell. Those that have been revived for the purposes of trolling - by the troll - are easy to identify

This one at least has current interest. But I've always considered the priviledge of posting in rant and rave should be earned by motorcycle related posts.

Bravo Greg... what a great final post mate... your wisdom and knowledge will be missed, Ill see ya in that pink hell ya grumpy old prick.

[pritch]

The President of the USA posted condolences after backing the losing team. He mentions 'the Great State of Kansas'. Pretty much everybody - except him - knows that Kansas City is in Missouri. It's not even the first time he's done that. Idiot!

[TheDemonLord]

The President of the USA posted condolences after backing the losing team. He mentions 'the Great State of Kansas'. Pretty much everybody - except him - knows that Kansas City is in Missouri. It's not even the first time he's done that. Idiot!

That tweet is from 5 years ago, so probably not in reference to yesterdays Superbowl game...

[pritch]

Bugga! I didn't read the small print. Still, his failure at primary school geography still applies.

[pete376403]

Another step closer to the trump "divine right of kings" - VP vance has been accused of threatening the US constitution after telling judges who have issued rulings temporarily blocking some of Donald Trump’s most contentious executive orders that they “aren’t allowed” to control the president’s “legitimate power”.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/10/jd-vance-judges-trump

[1/32 man]

A sharpie will fix that

[Berries]

That tweet is from 5 years ago, so probably not in reference to yesterdays Superbowl game...
And the comeback was pretty shithouse this time around.

[TheDemonLord]

Another step closer to the trump "divine right of kings" - VP vance has been accused of threatening the US constitution after telling judges who have issued rulings temporarily blocking some of Donald Trump’s most contentious executive orders that they “aren’t allowed” to control the president’s “legitimate power”.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/10/jd-vance-judges-trump

And JD Vance is correct - because all the institutions that are affected fall under the Executive Branch of the Government. The President has very wide powers in that regard.

Now, if it was directed at an institution that was created by legislation from Congress or the House - that would be a different story.

Leftists complaining that they can no longer use the government to promote leftism is nought but the chirrping of Cicadas.

[pete376403]

I can almost hear the frantic typing of a wall of text coming from tdl, but I would add, if the US has at present, the three legs of executive, courts and congress as its basis, and one of those legs (congress) will roll over at the executives whim, and the other leg (courts) has been deemed irrelevant, what is left but a faux-monarchy or dictatorship? Rule by executive order? Can the executive ignore the constitution if the are no courts that will enforce it? Will limits on presidential term go? (president for life?) I actually believe trump is to stupid to have come up with this himself, but if vance can get it over the line, trump may have a "medical emergency" soon after

[pete376403]

And JD Vance is correct - because all the institutions that are affected fall under the Executive Branch of the Government. The President has very wide powers in that regard.

Now, if it was directed at an institution that was created by legislation from Congress or the House - that would be a different story.

Leftists complaining that they can no longer use the government to promote leftism is nought but the chirrping of Cicadas.

So you'd be quite happy if harris was president and following this same line of action?

[TheDemonLord]

I can almost hear the frantic typing of a wall of text coming from tdl, but I would add, if the US has at present, the three legs of executive, courts and congress as its basis, and one of those legs (congress) will roll over at the executives whim, and the other leg (courts) has been deemed irrelevant, what is left but a faux-monarchy or dictatorship? Rule by executive order? Can the executive ignore the constitution if the are no courts that will enforce it? Will limits on presidential term go? (president for life?) I actually believe trump is to stupid to have come up with this himself, but if vance can get it over the line, trump may have a "medical emergency" soon after

Congress has been shirking its responsibility for decades in regards to legislation. This is something that multiple people, both left and right, have pointed out.

However - take USAID for example - it was established by Executive Order by JFK.

The problem is very simple - there is so much of the Federal Government that exists without a mandate from Congress or the Constitution. Trump, as President, is well within his rights to do just about whatever he wants with those institutions. Shrinking them, appointing DOGE to clear out the snouts in the Trough, firing partisan activists etc.

That is not, however, a Faux-Monarchy - because those actions only apply to the Federal Government.

Take the Department of Education - if Trump nukes it (some news reports suggest this is going to happen) - the responsibility of Education reverts (as it was intended to, under the Constitution) to the States - as a States Rights issue.

If Trump declared himself president for life (dont threaten me with a good time...) he would be the first Dictator in history to shrink the Government.

[TheDemonLord]

So you'd be quite happy if harris was president and following this same line of action?

An interesting question - and one that deserves a proper answer.

So let me answer it first directly - I consider that to be exactly what Joe Biden did, and no I was not happy.

But - before you start launching claims of Hypocrisy - there is additional detail here - that is extremely relevant.

Firstly - what has been happening and what Trump is undoing are things that directly contradict the vision of the USA in terms of what the founding fathers envisioned and directly against principles that they outlined in the federalist papers.

As such - I am happy for someone to return the USA to be closer to its intended structure and I am not happy for someone to stray further from that.

Secondly - What has been uncovered is the use of Government resources and Tax Dollars to promote globalist ideas, astroturfing leftist ideas and talking points, gaslighting the general public etc. And only ever in one political direction. One could, perhaps, accept this behavior if for every Dollar spent at Politico, an equal Dollar was spent at the Daily wire.

But that has not happened.

When it comes to the function of Government, I expect it to be Politically neutral - or at least, mostly politically neutral. I dont mean the Policy of the Elected Government - I mean the function. Imagine if you went to get a Drivers License but were denied because of who you voted for.

Funding and supporting exclusively Left-Wing groups and Ideas has the same problem.

I went on for years pointing out the Left-Wing bias of Censorship amongst Social Media companies - Lo and Behold, the Twitter files proved me right, Lo and Behold, DOGE proved me right.

I don't use the verbiage much - but when Trump talks about the Swamp, when people talk about the Deep State - what we saw with USAID is exactly what we are talking about. Entire Government departments, run exclusively by Left-Wing Activists, who abuse the power of the office that they hold to push their ideas.

So to answer your question more fully: Trump cleaning house and either removing those people or simply closing those activist Offices is returning the US Government to a politically neutral setting.

Therefore, what Trump is doing and what Kamala would do (or Biden did do) - despite superficially being the same, are drastically different. One I support - the other I do not.

[Pursang]

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:utoncswurgktfdhpfqnaraoj/bafkreigagztoms5g56z7e633bywstkm7pelsvd7c3tdeac6bs izkg6bxpe@jpeg

[F5 Dave]

I . . f, but if vance can get it over the line, trump may have a "medical emergency" soon after

Would be hard to get his sheer bulk out a window, but thats how they do it in Russia.

[F5 Dave]

Hey let's give credit where it is due. Why do they still have Pennies?
We got rid of 5Cent pieces, how long ago?

Of course I'd ask the question "what is the implication " and "why is the President pushing this?'

Still. Seems the most harmless and sensible thing he has done. Ever.

[pete376403]

And JD Vance is correct - because all the institutions that are affected fall under the Executive Branch of the Government. The President has very wide powers in that regard.

Now, if it was directed at an institution that was created by legislation from Congress or the House - that would be a different story..

ok a different story - CFPB (Consumer Finance Protection Bureau) "...its creation was included in the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, which was passed by Congress and signed by Obama in 2010." So Musk and his muskrats have shut this agency down, no cause from alarm there either? See Kickahas post #1012 on the Unmasking Elon Musk thread

[Kickaha]

Trump cleaning house and either removing those people or simply closing those activist Offices is returning the US Government to a politically neutral setting.


The fuck it is

[TheDemonLord]

ok a different story - CFPB (Consumer Finance Protection Bureau) "...its creation was included in the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, which was passed by Congress and signed by Obama in 2010." So Musk and his muskrats have shut this agency down, no cause from alarm there either? See Kickahas post #1012 on the Unmasking Elon Musk thread


On June 29, 2020, the Supreme Court ruled in a 5–4 decision that the firing protections of the director are an unconstitutional restraint on the president's ability to oversee executive branch agencies. "Such an agency lacks a foundation in historical practice and clashes with constitutional structure by concentrating power in a unilateral actor insulated from Presidential control,"

So, another quango is being gutted.

To be clear - at the moment it still exists, it has just been told to stop work. Note - this is inline with The Democrats telling, oh gee, I dont know... ICE and Border Patrol not to do their jobs, despite both organizations still existing.

If it was to be completely removed, without an Act from Congress - that would be wrong. However, as above from the SC ruling, I am not exactly shedding a tear.

[TheDemonLord]

The fuck it is

Well, hold up there.

If we look at what has been happening:

- Funding leftist news outlets
- Funding leftist activist groups
- Organizing hit-pieces against Republican and right-leaning individuals
- Using the Office to push Leftist agendas


By simply stopping these and firing the activists, that is the very definition of politically neutral.

The fact that you think a return to centre is not politically neutral is another datapoint in the myriad of examples of how far to the left Government structures have shifted.

Now, to your point - if Elon and co started doing some of the following:

- Funding the Right Wing news Outlets
- Funding various Militia groups
- Organizing hit pieces in mainstream news against Democrats and Left-Leaning individuals.
- Using the Office to push right wing agendas (Guns for all!)

Then, you would have a point - but they are not.

This part is key - simply stopping the creep of leftist takeover is righting the ship.

[pritch]

And JD Vance is correct - because all the institutions that are affected fall under the Executive Branch of the Government. The President has very wide powers in that regard.

Now, if it was directed at an institution that was created by legislation from Congress or the House - that would be a different story.



Vance mentioned the "legitimate powers of the President". That's fine but much of what Trump is doing falls way short of legitimate and is in fact unlawful. Which, of course, is why judges are finding against him. Trump does not have the power to set up a government department nor to close one. That is the role of Congress. Trump does not have the power to sack civil servants who are not political appointments. They are protected by law. He is sacking them anyway.

I note that Musk's unlawful team of unvetted 'super hackers', one of whom is nineteen years old and rejoices in the name "Bigballs", don't seem to know how to use email. An email intended for one specific federal judge was set to every federal judge in the USA.

[TheDemonLord]

Trump does not have the power to set up a government department nor to close one.

Yes, he does.

USAID - signed into existence by Executive Order under Kennedy.
The FBI - signed into existence by the AG.
OSS and the CIA - signed into existence by Roosevelt and Truman (respectively.
DEA - signed into existence by Nixon.

I could go on. Trump, as the head of the executive branch has wide ranging powers to create or close parts of the Executive branch of Government.


That is the role of Congress. Trump does not have the power to sack civil servants who are not political appointments. They are protected by law. He is sacking them anyway.

See above - Congress is the Legislature, their job is to write the laws. If those civil servants are part of the Executive Branch, then Trump does have certain powers as the elected head of the executive branch.


I note that Musk's unlawful team of unvetted 'super hackers', one of whom is nineteen years old and rejoices in the name "Bigballs", don't seem to know how to use email. An email intended for one specific federal judge was set to every federal judge in the USA.

Given my experience - something tells me that Mr BigBalls did that deliberately.

[nerrrd]

Except it didn't take me long to find this (https://www.justsecurity.org/107267/can-president-dissolve-usaid-by-executive-order/):


Can the President Dissolve USAID Without An Act of Congress?

No, not lawfully. In 1961, USAID was created by an E.O. issued by President John F. Kennedy (E.O. 10973), based in part on authority provided in the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961. But a later act of Congress (The Foreign Affairs Reform and Restructuring Act of 1998, 22 U.S.C. 6501 et seq.) established USAID as its own agency. In a section titled “Status of AID” (22 U.S.C. 6563) it states:

(a) In general

Unless abolished pursuant to the reorganization plan submitted under section 6601 of this title, and except as provided in section 6562 of this title, there is within the Executive branch of Government the United States Agency for International Development as an entity described in section 104 of title 5. (emphasis added)

The key language here is “there is within the Executive branch of Government [USAID]” (see sections 6562/6563). Those are the words Congress uses to establish an agency within the executive branch. It would take an act of Congress to reverse that – simply put, the president may not unilaterally override a statute by executive order.

etc etc



Now I can't vouch for the accuracy of the above (obviously), but it does ring somewhat true when it comes to anything involving government bureaucracy that it wouldn't be quite as simple as you're suggesting.

[TheDemonLord]

Except it didn't take me long to find this (https://www.justsecurity.org/107267/can-president-dissolve-usaid-by-executive-order/):

Now I can't vouch for the accuracy of the above (obviously), but it does ring somewhat true when it comes to anything involving government bureaucracy that it wouldn't be quite as simple as you're suggesting.

Oh look, a Democrat complaining that Trump cant do things that hurt Democrat interests...

What I do find interesting, though, is that when I search for that bit of legislation and opinions on it that have been issued in the past Month- I see the article, I see a multiple re-posted news stories (of the same story) and a Reddit post that references that article - but I do not see any other discussion on it.

If the accuracy of the above was true, I would expect it to be much more publicized. I would expect to see discussion. The lack of such publicity and discussion makes me think that the argument being made is not as strong as they would lead you to believe.

Even in the Article itself - if the above excerpt was the Slam-Dunk implied, then why would they bolster the blog post with subsequent arguments about downsizing.

[Katman]

https://eccentrik.substack.com/p/self-funded-self-destruction-inside

[pritch]

Now I can't vouch for the accuracy of the above (obviously), but it does ring somewhat true when it comes to anything involving government bureaucracy that it wouldn't be quite as simple as you're suggesting.

How it works is Congress votes on a matter. If approved, it then proceeds to the Senate who vote to confirm it - or not. If confirmed it goes to the president to sign off on it and he may - or may not - sign. So yes presidents signed off on new departments but only after they had been through the process. The president does not have the authority to start a new department. Congress control the government purse strings so that is their responsibility.

As someone else pointed out the US government consists of three co equal branches: the legislative branch (both houses of Congress), the Judiciary, and the executive branch (the president and the people he appoints). To use a Lord Of The Rings analogy, the president does not have the one ring to bind them all.

[TheDemonLord]

How it works is Congress votes on a matter. If approved, it then proceeds to the Senate who vote to confirm it - or not. If confirmed it goes to the president to sign off on it and he may - or may not - sign. So yes presidents signed off on new departments but only after they had been through the process. The president does not have the authority to start a new department. Congress control the government purse strings so that is their responsibility.

Except all those that were created by Executive Order, not by Congress.

You know, like the ones I pointed out.

Edit:

Here is a recent example:

Biden creating the Office of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_on_the_Establishment_of_the_White_ House_Office_of_Faith-Based_and_Neighborhood_Partnerships)


Sec. 2. Establishment. There is established a White House Office of Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships (White House Partnerships Office) within the Executive Office of the President,

[nerrrd]

Oh look, a Democrat complaining that Trump cant do things that hurt Democrat interests...

What I do find interesting, though, is that when I search for that bit of legislation and opinions on it that have been issued in the past Month- I see the article, I see a multiple re-posted news stories (of the same story) and a Reddit post that references that article - but I do not see any other discussion on it.

If the accuracy of the above was true, I would expect it to be much more publicized. I would expect to see discussion. The lack of such publicity and discussion makes me think that the argument being made is not as strong as they would lead you to believe.

Even in the Article itself - if the above excerpt was the Slam-Dunk implied, then why would they bolster the blog post with subsequent arguments about downsizing.

Maybe the assumption is that Congress would rubber stamp the disestablishment anyway (given the Republicans', admittedly slim, majority), so it's more of a procedural hurdle than a complete roadblock.

[TheDemonLord]

Maybe the assumption is that Congress would rubber stamp the disestablishment anyway (given the Republicans', admittedly slim, majority), so it's more of a procedural hurdle than a complete roadblock.

Possibly, I suspect that there is more here though.

My thoughts are that either the Democrats are keeping quiet for a Legal challenge...

or they are keeping quiet to avoid a Legal Challenge - as such a challenge would likely end up at the SC and given the ruling in Dobbs (removal of Roe) - I suspect the Dems are going to be cautious about having litigation heard by the SC.

[pritch]

Except all those that were created by Executive Order, not by Congress.


If the situation requires urgency Congress can temporarily extend the required powerr to the president. That has not been done in the current situation. The president is acting unlawfully. Also trump and Musk have ignored court orders. If you or I ignored court orders we'd be in trouble, so should they but sadly that would be too much to expect. Musk's "engineers" could find well themselves behind bars at some point though.

[TheDemonLord]

If the situation requires urgency Congress can temporarily extend the required powerr to the president.

What was the Urgency behind: The Office of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships?

I can find more examples of Biden creating Offices and Departments if youd like - And this isnt a dig at Biden - I am just pointing out that this is demonstrably incorrect.

The President has great powers within the executive branch, which includes creating Offices, Departments, Agencies etc.


That has not been done in the current situation. The president is acting unlawfully. Also trump and Musk have ignored court orders.

Are you referring to this Court Order:


Are there some aspects of the pause that might be legal and appropriate constitutionally for the Executive to take? The Court imagines there are, but it is equally sure that there are many instances in the Executive Orders’ wide-ranging, all-encompassing, and ambiguous ‘pause’ of critical funding that are not,

Let us take a look at the Judge in question - Hmmm on the board of Planned Parenthood, specializing in Environment Law - Gee, I wonder if he might have a particular Political View.

Now - onto this excerpt from the Ruling, because I find it interesting. The Court Imagines that some of Trumps actions are Legal and appropriate under the Constitution.

Right off the bat, we have a lovely shade of Grey - Trump might be doing something that is Legal.

The the next part, it is equally sure that some of the actions are not.

Imagine if a Judge said to a Defendant - Some of what you are doing might be legal, some of what you are doing might not be. What is an individual to make of that - the first would be to tell the court to go away and come back when they have determined what exactly they believe is not Legal, and why.

The lack of specificity and demarcation leads me to think this is simply a delay tactic.

Now - to be fair - assume for the moment that appropriate precedent or a brightline test had not been set - the Judge could point to a scenario and say that it is a matter of constitutional law and would need a SC ruling on the matter - The recent ruling around Machine Guns not being unusual in the US, for example, cites in the decision that there is a question of law that has not been resolved at the constitutional level and that other court decisions have side-stepped this issue.

I did not see that in the ruling.

In short - if the Judge cant point out exactly what it is that you are doing that is illegal and why, the ruling has little weight.


If you or I ignored court orders we'd be in trouble, so should they but sadly that would be too much to expect. Musk's "engineers" could find well themselves behind bars at some point though.

True, but neither you or I are the elected head of state. Not that it should matter, of course, but as above - looking at the decision - the Judge has failed to outline what IS legal (and they acknowledge that some of what is being done probably is) and what IS NOT legal.

[Berries]

What was the Urgency behind: The Office of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships?

The Rapture.

[TheDemonLord]

The Rapture.

I laughed out loud - Excellent retort.

[F5 Dave]

Toe to toe, dancing very close
Barely breathing, almost comatose
Wall to wall, people hypnotized
And they're stepping lightly
Hang each night in rapture

Back to back, sacroiliac
Spineless movement and a wild attack
Face to face, sightless solitude
And it's finger popping
24-hour shopping in rapture

[Berries]

Village People have lost the plot.

[F5 Dave]

Actually that was more when Debbie Harry lost the plot and started trying to rap.

[pritch]

What was the Urgency behind: The Office of Faith Based and Neighborhood Partnerships?


Is that a government department? Serious question because I seriously doubt it. There are a whole range of government funded advisory boards etc that are not government departments. Congress alone has the authority to create a department simple.

This is too silly colour me gone.

[pritch]

Today we found out that news outlets like Politico, and the New York Times were being given millions of dollars from the US government.

Benny Johnson says:

This is the biggest scandal in news media history: No employee at Politico got paid yesterday. First time ever the company missed a pay period. This is a crisis. Now we learn Politico — a “news company” — which spent the last 10 years trying to destroy the MAGA Movement was being massively funded by USAID.

It seems some $27 million dollars went to Politico during the Biden years — and that’s just the subscriptions (not the USAID). Truly, Politico charges as much as $10,000 for a single “Politico Pro” subscription — and so the taxpayers fork out big bucks to pay for politicians “work expenses”, and the money ends up covering the salaries of journalists who are working hard to deceive the hapless taxpayers.

As ZeroHedge reminds us, Politico went in hard in the 2020 election to cover for the Hunter Biden laptop from hell.

They also point out that the Blob has many other ways to keep newspapers toeing the line…

It’s not just the subscriptions: there are huge “ad contracts”, dinner parties DC throws itself under the guise of “media conferences”, sponsorships, etc all paid for by taxpayers. Once done with Politico look at its spawn Axios, founded by Politico veterans”


Interesting. If you found that out you found out wrong. The amount paid to Politico was $40,000 for subscriptions. Their professional subs are expensive but there are people in government who need to read the news.

Benny Johnson has a lot to say but he is not a credible news source.

[TheDemonLord]

Is that a government department? Serious question because I seriously doubt it.

Short answer - Yes and No.

Longer answer (because it is interesting) - All Government Departments in the US Context are Offices. However, Departments tend to refer to the largest entites that align with an entire Policy wing - e.g. Department of Defense, Department of Justice.

So, you could technically refer to it as such, but using the US context, it would be a bit silly.

The ATF, for example - is not a Department in that sense, it sits under the aforementioned Department of Justice.

Same with the FBI.

HOWEVER

USAID is NOT a federal executive department, despite having department in the name.


There are a whole range of government funded advisory boards etc that are not government departments. Congress alone has the authority to create a department simple.

Sure - but as above, you are refering to the a Federal Executive Department:

State, Treasury, Interior, Agriculture, Justice, Commerce, Labour, Defense, Health and Human Services, Housing and Urban Development, Transportation, Energy, Education, Veteren affairs and Homeland Security.

So - to be clear - if Trump wanted to nuke one of those, say the Department of Education, he would need Congress to vote on it. However, he would be within his rights as the head of the Executive Branch to appoint a Secretary to the head of that organization to severly limit their influence.

USAID, you will note, is not listed in the above.

And to be fair - neither is DOGE, despite being called the Department of Government Efficiency.


This is too silly colour me gone.

What I find silly is this:

Let us for the moment accept all the dislike of Trump and Elon - every reasonable and unreasonable critique - let us take them as holy writ.

Even if I accept that position - Can you defend the spending that DOGE has uncovered. Why must the US Taxpayer fund LGBTQ propaganda in foreign countries or local versions of Sesame Street or Brazil forest and gender consultant services or an Anthony Fauci exhibition at a Museum etc.

Especially for a country that every year is spending $2 TRILLION more than it collects in Taxes.

In order to raise a complaint about what is being done - you have to approve of the above - I dont think that is a tenable position. Now, some of the spending cuts might be debatable - I saw an article about a Grant for electric buses in one US city that was frozen (not cancelled) - One could certainly look into that - and it might be something they would want to spend the money on.

However that still does not alter the fact that there was insane spending on things that the average american would never have approved to spend US Tax Dollars on.

[TheDemonLord]

Interesting. If you found that out you found out wrong. The amount paid to Politico was $40,000 for subscriptions. Their professional subs are expensive but there are people in government who need to read the news.

Benny Johnson has a lot to say but he is not a credible news source.

Then tell me this Pritch - why was it when the Government spending was frozen, that Politico reported it could not pay its staff on time...

That is not from Benny Johnson or from any right wing news source.

Just like the Guardian being proped up by the BBC in the UK - there seems to be a lot of very cozy relationships.

[sugilite]

In a typically cynical move by musk, he bought his son along to his lieathon press event in the oval office in a "look at me I'm just a normal parent like you" move.
Problem is, toddlers like to parrot what they hear at home and in one of the most truthful moments in oval office history, the kid went over to trump and said "you are not the president. You need to go away" and "I want you to shush your mouth".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFDWsRRH1nw

As previously mentioned, musk presents the single largest conflict of interest I have ever seen in my lifetime. And since he has teamed with trump, his lies have sky rocketed out of control. Remember the quaint days where he just fibbed about tesla model release dates?
When a reporter asked him about the $50 million gaza condoms, he said he would get some stuff wrong, not bat 1000 and would set things right. Except he did not set things right at all, he let the lie ride. This doge is all performative, and he is telling lie after lie in order to outrage the base giving him the power to do what ever he likes most often with zero oversight.
Don't get me wrong, if course there is massive scamming by the pollies and their mates in these schemes. musk is not the one to be doing this job of rooting it out. Everything related to doge that comes out of his mouth can only be treated as a lie unless he presents actual indisputable proof. That is the sad fact of this situation.

The latest bullshit demo of this conflict of interest.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0Gx9BD3VJs&pp=ygUkdXMgZ292ZXJubWVudCBvcmRlcnMgYXJtb3VyZWQgdGV zbGFz

Now some here, OK one person here likes to spout on about small government being trump and musks doge's aim, and at this point i can be reasonably confidant that this doge situation will have them breaking out the walls of distortion text at a great rate I'm sure.
Personally I feel this small government idea is nothing but a simplistic catch phrase with no actual merit.
I advocate for efficient government for the people, and if a department needs a lot of personal to do the best possible job, then so be it. Saying small government will fix everything is at best a naive pipe dream born of a simpler age.

[TheDemonLord]

Now some here, OK one person here likes to spout on about small government being trump and musks doge's aim, and at this point i can be reasonably confidant that this doge situation will have them breaking out the walls of distortion text at a great rate I'm sure.
Personally I feel this small government idea is nothing but a simplistic catch phrase with no actual merit.
I advocate for efficient government for the people, and if a department needs a lot of personal to do the best possible job, then so be it. Saying small government will fix everything is at best a naive pipe dream born of a simpler age.

Yes, DOGE has been better than ever my most fevered of Fever Dreams.

I have one question first though - you say Musk is not the one to do it. This has been going on for at least 4 years and most likely longer:

If not Elon, then who? And the follow-up: Why have they not done it until now?

However, onto Small Government - I will first ask - do you really want the Government to do the best possible job? Stop and think for a moment. There is the law of diminishing returns.

The cost to make an F1 engine is around $10.5 Million dollars. Yet a local 1,000 BHP+ Crate engine is $47,000.

One is the Best possible job - and it has a cost. When I talk cost here, I dont just mean in the Dollar sense - I mean in Man-hours, resources, time that could be spend doing other things.

For an F1 team where any additional lap time or performance is generally worth it, even though there are diminishing returns (in the technical sense).

However - Do you want to pay for the Best possible Job - because I dont think you (or anyone else for that matter) does. What most people want is bang-for-buck.

Getting the most value out of our Tax Dollars. Now - to your point - Yes, that sometimes means that Government departments have to grow and people have to be hired.

But that also means that sometimes it has to shrink

When you further add in the moral element that Taxation is the forcible removal of resources from the people that produced them by force, there is a moral obligation for the Government to be as lean as possible.

I will note in your critique of Elon and Co - that not once did you defend the spending that was canceled. You even acknowledge that there are snouts on the trough.

Everyone was in on the racket and no one wanted to upset the applecart and their nice fat pension. Elon, the richest man in the world, comes along - he has no need of Government handouts, is free from the lure and able to kick over said applecart.

Just like Milei in Argentine.

When I say I want Small Government - it is accepting that sometimes it is the right thing that a man and a bucket goes and fixes a pothole rather than having a Comittee of road repairs, an Iwi consultation, 3 payroll experts, a Soil report, a Geoseismic report etc. etc.

This is not to say that there are not times when those things are relevant (although the necessity could be argued in some cases...)

The real question will be what the Federal Government looks like after Elon and Trump have finished their policies (which, I will remind you - were voted in by the People - Electoral College, Popular Vote, Senate and House).

Maybe it will be a massive failure.
Maybe it will be a massive success.

We will see.

The naysayers (who are all government employed or 1-step removed from the Government coffers) all tell us that Noooo you cant shrink the size of the Government, Society will fall apart!

And given their complicity in the situation we find ourselves in - suffice to say I dont give their complaints any weight.

[pritch]

The acting U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Danielle Sassoon, a Trump appointee, has resigned after being told to drop charges against Mayor Eric Adams. Trump must have mistakenly appointed someone with appropriate qualifications and a healthy respect for the law. He won't make that mistake again.

[pritch]

Personally I feel this small government idea is nothing but a simplistic catch phrase with no actual merit.


Absolutely. It really means small government for me, big government for thee. Consider all the personally invasive legislation Republicans push. They are constantly wanting to pass laws about what women can do with their bodies. Some states were considering laws allowing the government to track women's periods so they could tell if anyone became pregnant and then lost it. US women have been advised not to use the cycle tracking app in their phone in case it is used against them. Republicans want to control who can sleep with whom, and which people can use which toilets. Small government? Yeah right!

[pritch]

And just when you were getting used to the crazy. DOGE is terminating employees at the National Nuclear Safety Administration. The people who, among other things, ensure the safety of the US nuclear weapons. What could possibly go wrong?

[F5 Dave]

Fuking arse rooting cherist.

5% of nz people in census identity as on lgbgt spectrum.

No one is falsely identifying. Think about it. Many will under report as they don't want to come out to their parents.

It proves there is no God.

But fuuckers want to believe there are only 2 sexes.

Those same cunts oppress women as being inferior. Over 50% of the whole fucking world are women.

Get fucked you cunts.

[onearmedbandit]

Fuking arse rooting cherist.

5% of nz people in census identity as on lgbgt spectrum.

No one is falsely identifying. Think about it. Many will under report as they don't want to come out to their parents.

It proves there is no God.

But fuuckers want to believe there are only 2 sexes.

Those same cunts oppress women as being inferior. Over 50% of the whole fucking world are women.

Get fucked you cunts.

Genders...not sexes.

[F5 Dave]

People on the InterSEX spectrum are more common than Redheads.

We were hidden from this growing up for the shame.

But is nature. Not politics or religious head in the sand denial.

[TheDemonLord]

No one is falsely identifying.


You... uh... Sure about that?

For starters - around 80% of Trans-identifying Teenagers (who dont mutilate themselves) grow up to find that they are just Gay. And probably on the Spectrum.

Now - that we can put down as an honest mistake (although the Social Contagen and being pushed into Gender Affirming care should be made to answer for their crimes)

I have personally known several people who have at one point identified as either non-binary or other genders as a coping mechanism for Trauma: "Girls get Raped, I am a Boy, Boys dont get Raped" (Paraphrased quote).

Then there are the middle-aged men with autogynaphilia who have gone their entire lives as Men, Gotten Married, Had Children and now are *totally* Women. Anyone remember Bruce Jenner?

However, most of those are mostly harmless, Lets get to some of the more insidious, shall we?

Men who have a fetish for fucking Lesbians, so claim to be Trans in order to brow-beat Lesbians under threat of Transphobia into sleeping with them.

Then we have the Prisoners (and there are few notable examples of this) who suddenly become Trans when they are caught, in order to serve their time in a Womens Prison. Bonus points if they are in prison for committing sex crimes... against Women.

Then we have the Athletes who had no chance to place on the Podium as a Male, suddenly become Female and Boom! Records broken. Do I believe they are sincere in their new Trans Identity? Absolutely not.

And here is the rub:

Let us assume that the overwhelming amount of people who Identify are genuine, if you create a system where a Biological male can gain access to Womens-only spaces on their mere say-so, then a certain type of predatory man is going to try to do it.

Before anyone asks - but what about TransMen in Male-only spaces - the answer is Biology, I am not a very big or very tough guy - however if it was a fight between me and a Biological woman, I would put my money on me almost all of the time. Hormone therapy or not. So even if a Predatory female was to try it on, they are likely to be kept in line by other Biological males. The same is not true in reverse.

[TheDemonLord]

People on the InterSEX spectrum are more common than Redheads.

We were hidden from this growing up for the shame.

But is nature. Not politics or religious head in the sand denial.

2% vs 1.7% - so not true, however, the Redhead estimate is based on the Global population (which significantly dilute the statistics) - whereas the Intersex estimate is using data mostly from Western anglicised countries - where Redheads are far more common.

Also - Intersex conditions is a bait and switch tactic. Most of them result in the person being sterile as they are a genetic defect, not an entirely new sub-species of Human.

[F5 Dave]

Just for the ignorant. Lgbtq includes gay people. In fact, it is the first two letters. That is the 5% of what I was pointing out, as they are what is in the census, and that does not include children. No one is falsly identifying as being in that group as opposed to heterosexual. That was my point.

There has been social stigma, and God loving Christians persecuting people in that collective for so long that they have been hidden.

As I've gotten older I have realised that not everyone is like me and that is OK. In fact we should fight for their rights because evil is trying to oppress them and has been for generations.

[Laava]

Just for the ignorant. Lgbtq includes gay people. In fact, it is the first two letters. That is the 5% of what I was pointing out, as they are what is in the census, and that does not include children. No one is falsly identifying as being in that group as opposed to heterosexual. That was my point.

There has been social stigma, and God loving Christians persecuting people in that collective for so long that they have been hidden.

As I've gotten older I have realised that not everyone is like me and that is OK. In fact we should fight for their rights because evil is trying to oppress them and has been for generations.
The god loving christians (and/or other) persecuting the sexually different from their teachings are in fact usually gays in denial. Or worse, paedos.

[husaberg]

Just for the ignorant. Lgbtq includes gay people. In fact, it is the first two letters. That is the 5% of what I was pointing out, as they are what is in the census, and that does not include children. No one is falsly identifying as being in that group as opposed to heterosexual. That was my point.

There has been social stigma, and God loving Christians persecuting people in that collective for so long that they have been hidden.

As I've gotten older I have realised that not everyone is like me and that is OK. In fact we should fight for their rights because evil is trying to oppress them and has been for generations.


You have to enjoy the utter hypocrisy of the "god loving christians" holding up the shining beacon (mushroom dick)trump as their true martyr and saviour.
Whilst simultaneously claiming they have been persecuted all through history for their beliefs......
"Oh trump you were truly sent by great sky pixie to save us all" etc etc....

[F5 Dave]

Oh but but tye Roman's used to throw Christians to the lions!!

Well that rarely happened and the Roman's real dick move was introducing and practically enforcing it on their considerable empire. Without that the cult would have died out. It was the only time the religion really made headway. Well, there was the Spanish introduction to south America. Alongside sending the natives to die in silvermines which made the church and state very rich.

[husaberg]

Oh but but tye Roman's used to throw Christians to the lions!!

Well that rarely happened and the Roman's real dick move was introducing and practically enforcing it on their considerable empire. Without that the cult would have died out. It was the only time the religion really made headway. Well, there was the Spanish introduction to south America. Alongside sending the natives to die in silvermines which made the church and state very rich.


I blame Charlemagne although I think he considered himself a Roman emperor's I feel it would have died out if it wasn't for him in Europe.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/66/Vertrag_von_Verdun_en.svg/800px-Vertrag_von_Verdun_en.svg.png



Christian nationalist and trump supporter Marge Taylor Greene
There is a story going around about a video being circulated where it seems MTG sets out to prove that its true that Marge spreads easier than butter....
"just a rumour of course"

[nerrrd]

I blame Charlemagne although I think he considered himself a Roman emperor's I feel it would have died out if it wasn't for him in Europe.


A Roman emperor's what?

The Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantine) was christian too, it hung around until the 1400s.

Makes me think of the song "Now it's Instanbul not Constantinople..."

Maybe someone will re-release it as "Now it's Gulf of America not Gulf of Mexico..." Maybe if the Associated Press did that they'd let them back into the Whitehouse.

[TheDemonLord]

Just for the ignorant. Lgbtq includes gay people. In fact, it is the first two letters. That is the 5% of what I was pointing out, as they are what is in the census, and that does not include children. No one is falsly identifying as being in that group as opposed to heterosexual. That was my point.

I can assure you, people are definitely falsely identifying as Trans. P

eople who identify as Queer - well, when they can come up with a solid definition that doesnt just mean: I am autistic and want to defy societal norms. Then I will consider it valid.

Even then, the amount of middle aged women who suddenly declare themselves Queer that I have known (curiously after they have split up from their husbands) is quite high.