Trump - 4 more years of this at least...

[pritch]

After fighting it every step of the way through the courts, and losing, Trump finally answered the summons of the New York Attorney General. Trump refused to answer any questions, pleading his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself some 400 times over four hours. Compare that to Hillary Clinton who was grilled by Congress for eleven hours and did not plead the Fifth once,

In US criminal cases the jury can not use somebody pleading the Fifth to imply guilt. Under New York law a jury in a civil case can use an accused pleading the Fifth to draw a negative inference. And this is a civil case.

[pete376403]

After fighting it every step of the way through the courts, and losing, Trump finally answered the summons of the New York Attorney General. Trump refused to answer any questions, pleading his Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate himself some 400 times over four hours. Compare that to Hillary Clinton who was grilled by Congress for eleven hours and did not plead the Fifth once,

In US criminal cases the jury can not use somebody pleading the Fifth to imply guilt. Under New York law a jury in a civil case can use an accused pleading the Fifth to draw a negative inference. And this is a civil case.

There is a clip of trump saying ""You see the mob takes the Fifth," he said in April 2018. "If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment." https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-invokes-fifth-amendment-after-saying-the-mob-does-that-2022-8

[neels]

It would appear that the man is actually insane now, or at very least has started believing his own hype, which is more or less the same thing

he-cheats-at-the-highest-level-trump-claims-golf-tournament-win-despite-not-playing-half-of-it (https://www.foxsports.com.au/golf/he-cheats-at-the-highest-level-trump-claims-golf-tournament-win-despite-not-playing-half-of-it/news-story/d0f8fc46e570cee4083ec9cee54111d9)

[1/32 man]

or at very least has started believing his own hype,

Yeah but.....I think it set in a long time ago. A bit like other soloists at the top....thinking of Putin and the Nazis in Ukraine.

[pritch]

There were reports yesterday that former Vice President Mike Pence has received a subpoena to appear before the special prosecutor Jack Smith's inquiry. This is in relation to Trump's failed coup attempt. The reports are unofficial but last night our time there were also reports that the FBI were searching Pence's home.

If the investigation has been working its way up the hierarchy it must be approaching some sort of conclusion. Don't hold your breath though.

[sugilite]

Meh, subpoenas appear to be totally optional for pollies in the US. And it's not like the GOP have integrity.
Look at George Santos. He forged all but 100% of his resume, had the gall to say he was there to do work for the constituents who had voted him in - except it was not "him" they actually voted for. So the GOP rewarded the guy with committee responsibilities, which he went on to ditch once he realized they were too much work :laugh:

The mid term kick in the nuts has taught the radical magas nothing, they have now firmly grasped the Dems previously held mantle of "party of circular firing squads". Fuckwits.

[pritch]

Meh, subpoenas appear to be totally optional for pollies in the US. And it's not like the GOP have integrity.


Congressional subpoenas certainly seem to have been optional. There is provision for people ignoring them to be locked up but that would take more balls than the Democrats had. Also there was no guarantee that the Sergeant at Arms would have obeyed the order. Had he refused that would have been embarrassing.

Gym Jordan who ignored a Congressional subpoena himself is now issuing them to Democrats. The hypocrisy bothers him not at all.

A Special Prosecutor's subpoena to appear before a Grand Jury should be a more serious proposition though, even for a former VP. The Justice Department are used to locking people up. Meanwhile the FBI search of Mike Pence's home yesterday has turned up at least one further classified document.

In other news, another laptop scandal is developing. One of Trump's aides is reported to have copies of the Mar a Lago classified documents on a laptop.
If true that's a crime.

The originator of the other laptop drama now says that Hunter Biden's laptop was interfered with in an effort to make it more incriminating after it left his possession.

Quite a few Yanks could be losing sleep.

[TheDemonLord]

In other news, another laptop scandal is developing. One of Trump's aides is reported to have copies of the Mar a Lago classified documents on a laptop.
If true that's a crime.

Silly Aide, they should have put it on a Private Server! Afterall, the FBI has confirmed that that doesn't rise to the level of Criminal.

[1/32 man]

Quite a few Yanks could be losing sleep.

Quite a litigious country. In fact probably the most at a global level.

There you see lawyers on highway billboards touting for business such as unfair dismissal, motor accident etc.

I love all the backwards and forwards with bugger all results except $$ going into lawyers pockets.

My father called them parasites, you only need them in times of stress.

You have heard the Cannibal restaurant joke about lawyer pie costing way more than doctor pie or architect pie, havent you?

[pritch]

I love all the backwards and forwards with bugger all results except $$ going into lawyers pockets.

Some of Trump's lawyers have been whacked with heavy fines and others are in danger of losing or have already lost their law license.
It's very difficult to understand why any lawyer would want to board Trump's crazy train. Initially the chancers saw a shot at notoriety, but all of these insane election related "cases" now end in tears for Trump and his lawyers.

There is criticism from legal commentators that the recent actions do not even relate to legal matters, they are just lengthy lists of grievances. Judges tend to be impatient with these clogging up court time.





You have heard the Cannibal restaurant joke about lawyer pie costing way more than doctor pie or architect pie, havent you?

Please remind me?

[1/32 man]

Please remind me?

Basically the story goes that the cost of the lawyer pie was hugely priced, ridiculously high.
When the customer questioned the fact the waiter replied, "have you ever tried to skin one of those bastards?"

[sugilite]

Whats good for the Hunter is good for the Jared ;)
You cant make this shit up.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPM4CpAxJck

[pritch]

In an interesting development Trump has received another subpoena but this one is different. This subpoena has been issued by the legal team defending The Proud Boys and names Trump as a co-conspirator.

It can't be written off as fanciful because Enrico Tarrio the head of The Proud Boys posted photos of a visit to the White House prior to Jan 6th. The photos showed parts of the White House that the public do not get to see, including apparently within the residence. So it's not as if he took the photos while on a public tour.

[sugilite]

I well remember trumps line "proud boys, stand back and stand by", he just forget to say the rest of it - "and go to jail". The amount of trump supporters going to jail is mind boggling.

And this, fox hosts mocking trumps stolen election schtick in private communications. I bet Rupert wishes he had gone through with putting carlson, ingram and whatshisname together to declare that biden won the election fair and square. Could potentially cost him billions. I guess the advertising dollar bonanza of winding up the magas was just too irresistible.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/02/16/media/fox-news-stars-executives-court-documents/index.html

At this point the conservative parties reputation is in tatters, and with the Georgia case looking grim, their reputation has not bottomed out yet. Trump has shit in the corner of every gop office in existence. He will ultimately bring down the gop, and it was always going to be this way, despite the fairy tales magas told themselves.

The party of law and order - pfffft. George Santos perfectly encapsulates just how far gone the party has fallen.

[pritch]

Kari Lake ran for Governor of Arizona and lost. Playing from the Trump playbook she is claiming she was robbed, the election was rigged. It seems that she was so confident she would lose the election that she started her legal actions months prior to the election taking place. The subsequent legal actions have all failed and her lawyers have been sanctioned receiving big fines.

Her four lawyers have now been referred to their local bar associations for disciplinary action. The information against them doesn't need to be proven, a judge already fined them. Basically the bar associations simply have to decide if they merit further action such as losing their licence to practice law.

The US could have an end to this election denying nonsense right here. Or not.

[sugilite]

Ahhhhh, revisiting the mid terms, republicans explain their loss so well. :laugh:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JocGi1J-3d0

[husaberg]

bahahahahaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnCAtslWGEU

[pritch]

bahahahahaha

Yeah I'm familiar with Ari Melber. Don't watch him much but he's really good interviewing lawyers because he's a lawyer himself and he knows what questions to ask. Other US talking heads have law degrees but they don't all use them as well.

[pritch]

McCarthy giving Carlson 40, 000 hours plus of security footage from January 6th must comprise a serious security threat. The footage will reveal the location of all security cameras, escape routes and 'safe' rooms etc. One might think this cause for the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, or even he Congressional Police to have acted, but no. Democrats have written 'strongly worded letters' but nobody has actually done anything. Until now. Mike Lindell, the My Pillow guy and die hard Trump election conspiracy theorist, has initiated a legal action.

Nobody saw that coming.

[husaberg]

Yeah I'm familiar with Ari Melber. Don't watch him much but he's really good interviewing lawyers because he's a lawyer himself and he knows what questions to ask. Other US talking heads have law degrees but they don't all use them as well.

What is interesting is the texts show that even the fox presenters knew they were taking utter bollocks...
Yet they continued on and so do the trump supporters still.....
Not a surprise, but to have undisputed proof that show it yet I bet the trump supporters totally ignore it still.
The emperor has no clothes...

[onearmedbandit]

Of course they will, that's the power of bias.

[pritch]

What is interesting is the texts show that even the fox presenters knew they were taking utter bollocks...


That can (and should?) be evidence of 'actual malice' which is needed for Dominion Voting Machines to win their 1.6Billion court case. Lawyers say the bar is set very high though. So high that defamation cases involving celebrities or corporations rarely succeed.

[pritch]

Donnie Junior's bank has told him to take his business elsewhere. He's crying about "woke capitalism". The bank hasn't explained publicly why, but apparently US banks are subject to severe sanctions if caught running accounts for criminal organisations. Watch this space?

[pete376403]

That can (and should?) be evidence of 'actual malice' which is needed for Dominion Voting Machines to win their 1.6Billion court case. Lawyers say the bar is set very high though. So high that defamation cases involving celebrities or corporations rarely succeed.

evidence enough? https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/murdoch-acknowledges-some-fox-hosts-endorsed-false-election-claims

[F5 Dave]

Oh, but he knows how to broker deals. Successful business man. That who we need running the country.

Oh. Another country. One we want to fuk over because he's such a loser.
Much like his supporters. Real slow moving reptiles.

[pritch]

evidence enough?

The obvious Fox defence in such a case would be that they were just asking questions of Sydney Powell, Rudi Giuliani etc, in an effort to discover the facts. Bit of a bugger that it's now known none of the Fox people believed Trump or his lawyers and that they were perpetuating the lies to keep the Republican base riled up and watching Fox. There is also an email from Tucker Carlson pointing out that they needed to keep lying to prevent the share price falling.

The Fox lawyers may have a tough job. It is very rare for such cases to succeed in the US but the lawyers in other cases didn't have the evidence the Dominion lawyers now have. We'll see.


Edit:
A picture is worth a thousand words so in their own words... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JguhI0ow3LU

[sugilite]

Herr apparent to Trump desantos getting ready to rule as an authoritarian (fuck Conservatism)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/mar/06/newt-gingrich-florida-register-desantis-bloggers-insane

:laugh:

[Laava]

This pic reminds me of the Trump boys…

[Berries]

This pic reminds me of the Trump boys…
Bent at right angles?

[sugilite]

So all these internal messaging coming out from the fox defamation trial is fascinating.
Here Tucker Carson admits to hating Trump and states how little trump got done over his 4 years in office. Despite professing admiration for trump publicly.

Months after the 2020 presidential election, and two days before the January 6 attack on the US Capitol, Tucker Carlson wrote in a text message that he hated then-President Donald Trump "passionately," according to the newly released court documents.

"We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights," Carlson wrote on Jan 4, 2021, the filings show. "I truly can't wait."

"I hate him passionately," the Fox host continued. "I blew up at Peter Navarro today in frustration. I actually like Peter. But I can't handle much more of this."

"That's the last four years," Carlson added. "We're all pretending we've got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it's been is too tough to digest. But come on. There isn't really an upside to Trump."

The text messages reveal that Carlson was harshly critical of Trump in private despite regularly expressing support for the former president on his Fox News primetime show and suggesting the 2020 election could have been stolen from him.

"He was pushing voting fraud stuff. I have no doubt there was fraud. But at this point, Trump and Lin and Powell have so discredited their own case, and the rest of us to some extent, that it's infuriating. Absolutely enrages me," Carlson wrote.

Days later, on Jan. 6, 2021, Carlson wrote in a text message to his producer, Alex Pfeiffer that Trump was "a demonic force, a destroyer."

It feels odd to have Tucker in our corner confirming everything we have been telling tdl for years :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

So all these internal messaging coming out from the fox defamation trial is fascinating.
Here Tucker Carson admits to hating Trump and states how little trump got done over his 4 years in office. Despite professing admiration for trump publicly.

Months after the 2020 presidential election, and two days before the January 6 attack on the US Capitol, Tucker Carlson wrote in a text message that he hated then-President Donald Trump "passionately," according to the newly released court documents.

"We are very, very close to being able to ignore Trump most nights," Carlson wrote on Jan 4, 2021, the filings show. "I truly can't wait."

"I hate him passionately," the Fox host continued. "I blew up at Peter Navarro today in frustration. I actually like Peter. But I can't handle much more of this."

"That's the last four years," Carlson added. "We're all pretending we've got a lot to show for it, because admitting what a disaster it's been is too tough to digest. But come on. There isn't really an upside to Trump."

The text messages reveal that Carlson was harshly critical of Trump in private despite regularly expressing support for the former president on his Fox News primetime show and suggesting the 2020 election could have been stolen from him.

"He was pushing voting fraud stuff. I have no doubt there was fraud. But at this point, Trump and Lin and Powell have so discredited their own case, and the rest of us to some extent, that it's infuriating. Absolutely enrages me," Carlson wrote.

Days later, on Jan. 6, 2021, Carlson wrote in a text message to his producer, Alex Pfeiffer that Trump was "a demonic force, a destroyer."

It feels odd to have Tucker in our corner confirming everything we have been telling tdl for years :laugh:

I find it curious - For the last few pages people have been saying that Fox and Tucker 'knew' that the Election Fraud claim was false - and yet...

"He was pushing voting fraud stuff. I have no doubt there was fraud." - It seems there's a bit of discrepancy between what has been claimed and what was actually said.

Now, given who is publishing these Texts and the fact I'm not seeing the full conversation, only isolated lines (no doubt cherry picked) - I'm a touch skeptical.

But here's the thing - Tucker is welcome to his opinion, I'm not a Tucker fan as I don't watch Fox - suffice to say I disagree on some of the points made if they are what they pro-port to be - That's the beauty of the adversarial court system, I'm sure there's going to be additional information come to light that will frame these out-of-context snippets.

Then, with a much fuller picture, we can read and assess what is going on.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

The left, and left wing media are loosing respect of the public as each year goes by, since the scamdemic,

I will be interested to see the turn out of this year's census as a large movement in NZ has lost trust in government agencies and there lackies.

A $4000 fine for not filling out the census? Yet I get only fined $60 for breaking the speed limit putting myself and others lives in danger?

Doesn't make sense..

[Grumph]

The left, and left wing media are loosing respect of the public as each year goes by, since the scamdemic,

I will be interested to see the turn out of this year's census as a large movement in NZ has lost trust in government agencies and there lackies.

A $4000 fine for not filling out the census? Yet I get only fined $60 for breaking the speed limit putting myself and others lives in danger?

Doesn't make sense..

Keep living in that fantasy world of yours. $2000 maximum fine here in the real world. And it appears they've never asked for the maximum yet.

Here's your chance to be famous.

[F5 Dave]

Sorry, I'm losing track here. So C19 wasn't real, it was just a lie from the gummermint, actually all gummermints in the world, so they must all be lefties. Interesting. And the media in cahoots. Got it.

And this benefited them. . . how?

I know this will be brilliant and I'll slap my forehead for not seeing it.

[pritch]

Doesn't make sense..

Correct. It didn't.

[TheDemonLord]

Sorry, I'm losing track here. So C19 wasn't real, it was just a lie from the gummermint, actually all gummermints in the world, so they must all be lefties. Interesting. And the media in cahoots. Got it.

And this benefited them. . . how?

I know this will be brilliant and I'll slap my forehead for not seeing it.

I mean, what benefit could it be for power-hungry communists to confine everyone to their homes and restrict everyones freedoms.

Not like there's a wealth of historical precedent there.

What benefit could it be for Media Companies when all the normal sources of Entertainment have been restricted as people are forced to stay at home and consume the Media they produce.

I wonder...

This is not to say the C19 wasn't 'real' - only that it was a massive over-reaction, for which we are now paying the price.

[MD]

I wonder...

This is not to say the C19 wasn't 'real' - only that it was a massive over-reaction, for which we are now paying the price.

According to tonights news 7 million people have so far died from Covid globally. Maybe you should tell those 7 million people and their families that "it was a massive over-reaction". I'm sure they will hug you and say thank you for putting them straight and how silly they were crying over the loss of loved ones amongst only 7 million others.

[pritch]

I'm waiting for some turkey in NZ to claim his First, Fourth, or Fifth Amendment rights are being violated, having watched too many YouTube 'auditor' clips. Amendments to the United States Constitution that is.

There is a guy tried that in Ireland. The cops were amazingly patient but eventually impounded his mum's car.

[Grumph]

I'm waiting for some turkey in NZ to claim his First, Fourth, or Fifth Amendment rights are being violated, having watched too many YouTube 'auditor' clips. Amendments to the United States Constitution that is.

There is a guy tried that in Ireland. The cops were amazingly patient but eventually impounded his mum's car.


Back when the firearms restrictions and the destruction of illegal guns began i noticed demonstrators claiming their "right to bear arms" was being infringed.

I personally told several that it was a privilege, not a right. And it should be earned.

[TheDemonLord]

According to tonights news 7 million people have so far died from Covid globally. Maybe you should tell those 7 million people and their families that "it was a massive over-reaction". I'm sure they will hug you and say thank you for putting them straight and how silly they were crying over the loss of loved ones amongst only 7 million others.

It was.

This is not going to be a popular opinion, but the fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of people who died from Covid were:

1: Over 65
2: Had pre-existing co-morbidities.

Is it nice that Granddad died a bit earlier than he otherwise would have? No.

However, let's not cloud reality with Emotion - what has been the effectives of Covid Policy?

- Massive Inflation
- Erosion of Rights (don't worry, eventually it will happen to you too)
- 'Emergency powers' that are curiously retained after the Emergency ends
- Social Division (turns out having your natural rights infringed makes people angry)
- Distrust of Government
- A Generation of children with reading, writing and speaking impaired due to missing school.

And before you rebut this - I want you to answer this question honestly:

"Was New Zealand better before Covid or after Covid?"

[TheDemonLord]

Back when the firearms restrictions and the destruction of illegal guns began i noticed demonstrators claiming their "right to bear arms" was being infringed.

I personally told several that it was a privilege, not a right. And it should be earned.

That depends on whether you consider the Right to Self Defence to be a Natural right that supercedes what is or is not written in law.

And considering at best less than 30% were handed in (more like 10-15%) - it seems to indicate what the majority believe ;)

[F5 Dave]

Just pondering. What is the greatest force?

Stupidity
Entitlement or
Ignorance?

[pritch]

Just pondering. What is the greatest force?

Stupidity
Entitlement or
Ignorance?

Or wilful ignorance?

[TheDemonLord]

Just pondering. What is the greatest force?

Stupidity
Entitlement or
Ignorance?


Or wilful ignorance?

I'm assuming you mean destructive force - in which case, Pritch is closest but how about this:

"A Genuine, but misplaced belief that you are doing good"

All Evil is permissible if you are doing it 'For the greater good'.

[F5 Dave]

Or wilful ignorance?

Good point. Indeed. It is still a subset rather than sum total , but you likely have to touch all the bases.


Whatever, I blame centrist politics. (They don't seem to get the rap as often as the imagined binary theological divisions some people are so keen on).

[TheDemonLord]

Whatever, I blame centrist politics. (They don't seem to get the rap as often as the imagined binary theological divisions some people are so keen on).

And it seems we agree.

Centrist Politics are, in reality, just Left-Wing politics doing the speed limit.

[neels]

Centrist Politics are, in reality, just Left-Wing politics doing the speed limit.
Probably more correctly, both left wing and right wing politics doing the speed limit. There is not enough support at either of the extremes for any sort of political influence.

What is kinda funny is that the people who hold the extreme political beliefs seem to think they will be the ones who will most benefit in whatever political system they propose.

In reality they are probably the fringe people who would be unproductive, argumentative, and generally annoying, and therefore the first to be removed or excluded from any society that formed so the rest can get on with living sensibly with each other.

[sugilite]

I find it curious - For the last few pages people have been saying that Fox and Tucker 'knew' that the Election Fraud claim was false - and yet...

"He was pushing voting fraud stuff. I have no doubt there was fraud." - It seems there's a bit of discrepancy between what has been claimed and what was actually said.

Now, given who is publishing these Texts and the fact I'm not seeing the full conversation, only isolated lines (no doubt cherry picked) - I'm a touch skeptical.

But here's the thing - Tucker is welcome to his opinion, I'm not a Tucker fan as I don't watch Fox - suffice to say I disagree on some of the points made if they are what they pro-port to be - That's the beauty of the adversarial court system, I'm sure there's going to be additional information come to light that will frame these out-of-context snippets.

Then, with a much fuller picture, we can read and assess what is going on.

Carlsons messaging was very clear, but hold onto your Trump fantasies - while you still can :lol:
One way or another, he will finally finish off the GOP. I hope your waiting chair for the Dems comeuppance is very comfortable, you will likely be in it for quite some time.
To recap:
Trump wins nomination - swing voters will deny him the presidency once again.
Trump loses nomination, he takes maga supporters with him to start a 3rd party. I'm sure you understand trump for trump will over rule any sort of party loyalty.

[TheDemonLord]

Probably more correctly, both left wing and right wing politics doing the speed limit. There is not enough support at either of the extremes for any sort of political influence.

Disagree.

When was the last time you saw in NZ National repeal a major Labour Policy (like the RMA for instance) or implement a proper, bottom-up conservative policy?

The typical National talking points of today wouldn't look out of place in Helen Clark's Government.

This is essentially Robert Conquests' Law.


What is kinda funny is that the people who hold the extreme political beliefs seem to think they will be the ones who will most benefit in whatever political system they propose.

I mean whilst that definitely describes every Communist (and so I laughed) - let me apply that same rational to myself for a moment, see how much you agree/disagree:

I want the Government to stop trying to artificially engineer the 'perfect' society and reign itself in.
I want to see a Government where every law that is on the books has a basis in Natural Rights (The right to Speak, the Right to Bodily Autonomy, The right to own the fruits of your labour, The right to defend yourself and the Right to move freely without hinderance) - any law that isn't tangentially linked to those is repealed (with some minor exceptions).
I want a Government that does not see race, colour, sex, gender or any other characteristic as a reason to treat people differently.
I want a Government whose primary focus for my Tax Dollars is Infrastructure, Education, Defence, Law and Order, Healthcare and not a whole lot else.

In short, I want the Government to leave me alone to live my life as I see fit and by that same token, I want a Government that leaves you alone to likewise live your life as you best see fit

Will I be better or worse off? I don't know. But I do know that thrive or fail, it will be on my own merits.


In reality they are probably the fringe people who would be unproductive, argumentative, and generally annoying, and therefore the first to be removed or excluded from any society that formed so the rest can get on with living sensibly with each other.

So, University communist activists then...

[TheDemonLord]

Carlsons messaging was very clear, but hold onto your Trump fantasies - while you still can :lol:

You miss the point - Again, for the Umpteenth time - I'm not a particular fan of Tucker, I don't watch his show regularly, nor do I cite him as any form of authority.

He can have his views on Trump - my point was, in this thread, much had been made of 'Fox pushing false election fraud claims that they didn't believe themselves' - yet the quote you posted seems to run counter to that narrative.

Since we have two seemingly irreconcilable opinions - either one of them is false or there is some additional context missing. Either way, I'm skeptical of the Narrative because of that inconsistency (and I know that the media are always lying through their teeth).



One way or another, he will finally finish off the GOP. I hope your waiting chair for the Dems comeuppance is very comfortable, you will likely be in it for quite some time.

To recap:
Trump wins nomination - swing voters will deny him the presidency once again.
Trump loses nomination, he takes maga supporters with him to start a 3rd party. I'm sure you understand trump for trump will over rule any sort of party loyalty.

Okay - serious question:

Do you think the average Swing voter is going to forgive the Democrats for what has happened under Biden?

Putting aside all personal issues with Biden for a moment - there is one key issue that cannot be overcome: Life was better under Trump. Then you've got the issues like the massive increase in illegal border crossings (I believe an 8 fold increase from when Biden took office), the Afghanistan collapse, Inflation, Government Debt, The Ukraine war etc.

There's only so long you can lie to people before they start to get suspicious - for example - where did Covid come from? Was it a Lab Leak or is that just some crackpot conspiracy theory that will get you banned from the internet?

If Trump wins the Nomination - his campaign should simply be 'It was so good, it was great, it was beautiful - and the Democrats destroyed it all' - where's the lie in that?

If Trump loses - now, that's a more interesting scenario - there's potential of splitting the vote, however the realistic option is if he leaves, it would be Ron DeSantis who would dethrone him. Most Conservatives would be wary of splitting the vote and so I think they would vote for Ron out of pragmatism (plus Ron is pretty awesome)

In addition, if Ron does get the nomination - all the people that have TDS (but otherwise agree with all his policies...) don't have the same hangup, so I think we'd see a swing vote shift.

I'm still hoping for a Trump second term - mainly because since he can't get re-elected, he would have the possibility (and perhaps even the Will) to do some serious 'Fuck you' push backs. Disbanding or seriously curtailing the FBI would be a good start.

[sugilite]

Mid terms bro, nothing much changed since then. Swing voters cannot stand Trump.
Everything else you posted is purely whimsical. Good on you for keeping your chin up though.
Get comfy on that waiting chair :yes:

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

Wokeness has turned into a weird type of religion as more people move away from real religion, and the mainstream media has basically become their church service.

[1/32 man]

In reality they are probably the fringe people who would be unproductive, argumentative, and generally annoying, and therefore the first to be removed or excluded from any society that formed so the rest can get on with living sensibly with each other.

That would be TDL then.

The more I read of his copious words the more I think he is a troll working for the enemy.....whoever they are.

I mean that bit about not being a particular fan of Carlson...if you couldnt see that he was a mouth for hire then what else cant you see?

[TheDemonLord]

That would be TDL then.

Indeed.... Right up until you realise that they are correct and that your society is worse off for it.

Case in point - is NZ doing better pre or post pandemic?

I've been on record saying what we were doing was a big over-reaction and that we would pay for the consequences. With all the inflation and cost of living crisis, it looks a lot like I was right.


The more I read of his copious words the more I think he is a troll working for the enemy.....whoever they are.

Serious question then:

what 'Enemy' would I be working for?

One that wants to leave you alone so you can live your life as you see fit?

Ah! Curses! I've been Rattled! Such evil and nefarious plans of wanting people to self-actualize!

On top of that, If I was 'working' for the enemy, I'd expect to get paid - sadly, there are no big donations from overseas organizations into my Bank account...

But if I was a raving lefty...


I mean that bit about not being a particular fan of Carlson...if you couldnt see that he was a mouth for hire then what else cant you see?

Okay then - can you show a number of Quotes and Posts from me where I cite Fox/Tucker as an authoritative source?

I'm aware of Tucker and have seen the occassional clip of him, I've seen interviews of his on other people's shows who I do watch - but for his Fox show - I don't watch Fox and I don't watch him.

[TheDemonLord]

Wokeness has turned into a weird type of religion as more people move away from real religion, and the mainstream media has basically become their church service.

Jokes aside, I partially agree - but not for the reasons stated.

I've said elsewhere that I grew up in a Religious household - as such I saw a wide range of Religious types. There are the Conservative Religious types - the 'My Father was a Christian and my father before him and I'll be christian till the day I die and this is a Christian Nation and....'

But there are also the recent convert types - who have suddenly pinned their entire self-identity on being Christian and are the most obnoxious and evangelical of Christians.

I put it to you that this goes as far back as the French Revolution (perhaps even earlier) - that there is a certain person who needs so desperately 'something to believe in' - that they supplant a traditional Religion with a modern artificial belief system.

For my usual detractors - before you jump down my throats - think of the people who believe in Astrology, or Crystals or any N number of New-age Crap - I'm sure you've met some of these people and I'm sure now that I've pointed this out, you've got someone who immediately springs to mind.

Most of this stuff is harmless - Astrology doesn't really do much except fleece the gullible from their money.

The problem is that Wokeness (and realistically all modern Marxist derived belief systems) has all the negative properties of a Religion, with none of the redeeming properties.

Original Sin = Anyone who you perceive to be better off than you (Straight White Men, the Rich, The Elites etc.)
A Bible = Das Kapital and The Communist Manifesto
Repentance = Checking your Privilege
Heaven = Communist Utopia (A Stateless, classless, moneyless society)
The Messiah = Karl Marx
Satan = Capitalism

You have all you need for a belief system, but whereas most modern religions internalize the struggle (for example the modern Islamic conception of Jihad being the internal struggle to adhere to the will of Allah against the temptations of the world), Wokeness/Marxism externalizes this struggle in a call for Revolution.

Furthermore, unlike other Religions that have elements of Humility built into them (even if their adherants are sometimes terrible as this... Looking at you Televangelists...) Marxism has Jealousy built into it. There's no Gratitude.

So yes, Wokeism and all the other Marxist derived claptrap is a new Religion of sorts, but it's not to 'pull people away from the Church' - it's that there is a type of person who needs something to believe in and if they aren't believing in a traditional religion (or have outright rejected traditional religions) then they latch onto a new Religion.

[nerrrd]

Indeed.... Right up until you realise that they are correct and that your society is worse off for it.

Case in point - is NZ doing better pre or post pandemic?

I've been on record saying what we were doing was a big over-reaction and that we would pay for the consequences. With all the inflation and cost of living crisis, it looks a lot like I was right.



I don't understand your point here, you seem to be suggesting that we had a choice in whether to 'take part' in Covid or not. How could the country possibly be better off after having to deal with a worldwide pandemic which affected everyone, um, worldwide? Especially a country so heavily dependent on exports and tourism?

Our reaction was in line with most other comparable countries, and we're bloody lucky it wasn't worse, because I agree, we barely got through it. If a significantly worse pandemic comes along, it won't just be toilet paper that people will be hoarding.

What it has done is exposed the fragility of our economy, infrastructure, institutions and psyches, which have all been in managed decline since the 1980s (or before that when NZ was still a wealthy country). We've been propping everything up with debt since then, all the while telling people that you can do that while simultaneously cutting taxes and everything will be just fine. Modern life is full of these kinds of contradictions that don't make sense on a personal level, so we're having to live every day in a kind of forced denial that's constantly undermining our psychological well-being. At least it is mine, anyway.

[pritch]

I've been on record saying what we were doing was a big over-reaction and that we would pay for the consequences. With all the inflation and cost of living crisis, it looks a lot like I was right.


That's almost amusing. Almost. NZ inflation is lower than most comparable countries and out debt to GDP ratio is the envy of many. The NZ economy is rated one of the best in the OECD.

In addition to that our COVID response was rated one of the best in the world.

Some people are hard to please. Then again, some people have a very tenuous grasp on reality.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

That's almost amusing. Almost. NZ inflation is lower than most comparable countries and out debt to GDP ratio is the envy of many. The NZ economy is rated one of the best in the OECD.

In addition to that our COVID response was rated one of the best in the world.

Some people are hard to please. Then again, some people have a very tenuous grasp on reality.

Stop parroting Grant Robinson you brainwashed puppet.

Mortgage repayments are going to double for half of all mortgage holders this year or on average $18,000 annual pay decrease to the average Kiwi house hold, this will flow on into rents.

Add to that Wages have not kept up with inflation

Who are you comparing our inflation to ? Venezuela?

[TheDemonLord]

That's almost amusing. Almost. NZ inflation is lower than most comparable countries and out debt to GDP ratio is the envy of many. The NZ economy is rated one of the best in the OECD.

In addition to that our COVID response was rated one of the best in the world.

Some people are hard to please. Then again, some people have a very tenuous grasp on reality.

Except Taiwan.

You remember? When I posted the Graphs that showed their Inflation was under control?

See, the bit that you are dishonestly omitting (and I say Dishonest, cause I've pointed it out to you multiple times):

The countries you are comparing us to all did the same thing and therefore is no comparison at all.

I mean, we even have the studies now:

Lockdowns - no meaningful impact on the spread of Covid
Masks - no meaningful impact on the spread of Covid
Vaccines - no meaningful impact on the spread of Covid

What helped in NZ was:

- Geographic isolation
- low population density
- single digit points of entry and exit
- Higher UV Radiation
- No mass transit systems

None of which are or where Government Policy.

Again - Other countries did the exact same thing we did and had different outcomes, therefore what was done had no meaningful impact.

[TheDemonLord]

I don't understand your point here, you seem to be suggesting that we had a choice in whether to 'take part' in Covid or not. How could the country possibly be better off after having to deal with a worldwide pandemic which affected everyone, um, worldwide? Especially a country so heavily dependent on exports and tourism?

We had a choice whether to Lockdown or not.
We had a choice to borrow/print Billions of dollars and cause rampant inflation.

We had multiple choices.


Our reaction was in line with most other comparable countries, and we're bloody lucky it wasn't worse, because I agree, we barely got through it. If a significantly worse pandemic comes along, it won't just be toilet paper that people will be hoarding.

I agree our reaction was in line, which is why we are suffering the self-imposed consequences of those actions.

Taiwan, did a better job. So did Sweden (Until Putin invaded Ukraine...)


What it has done is exposed the fragility of our economy, infrastructure, institutions and psyches, which have all been in managed decline since the 1980s (or before that when NZ was still a wealthy country). We've been propping everything up with debt since then, all the while telling people that you can do that while simultaneously cutting taxes and everything will be just fine. Modern life is full of these kinds of contradictions that don't make sense on a personal level, so we're having to live every day in a kind of forced denial that's constantly undermining our psychological well-being. At least it is mine, anyway.

Okay - Time-out for just a teensy tiny second.

I'm going to ask 2 key questions and I want your honest answers.

1: Do you think Society, in NZ, has gotten more Conservative or less Conservative since the 1980s?
2: Has the amount of Government regulation increased or decreased since the 1980s?

There's some anicillary points about Global Trade, Societal Homogenity etc. but they distract.

See, I put it to you that since the 1980s and specifically after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the 'West' thinking it had won and beaten the Marxists, relaxed on it's laurels and has moved significantly to the left ever since. The cost of doing business has gone up enormously, and as a society we have moved away from individualist principles and towards collectivist principles.

The decline you speak of, I don't entirely disagree with your summation of it, what I disagree with is that there's a contradiction - there isn't.

There's a causal link between the embracing of destructive ideas under the guise of 'progress' and the issues that you've identified.

You think I'm either Mad, a Troll, Crazy, Ignorant, or whatever epithet you feel applies - but that's simply because I reject the 'perceived wisdom' that is the foundation of these destructive ideas. In the worldview that I hold, there is no contradiction.

As you said so yourself - the contradiction as you see it is undermining your psychological Well-being. I don't disagree...

The Soviets called this process 'Demoralization' - Yuri Bezmenov spoke about it, Gramsci spoke about it - this is the process of deliberately making a populace dependent and hopeless so they will usher in the Glorious Revolution.

Do you want a Revolution? I'm picking not.

I have a degree of sympathy for your psychological well-being, since I know that this is the intended effect. Where my sympathy ends is that I've told you the solution to the problem, yet you don't want to hear or believe it - at which point you are choosing to embrace the ideas that are hastening your own torment.

[nerrrd]

We had choices in how to react, sure, but I still think that the choices that were made were completely reasonable at the time, in context. Lessons need to be learned, but those lessons were not as 'obvious' at the time as many, such as yourself, are now claiming.

I have no doubt there are people whose lives were saved due to at least some of the Covid measures taken. I know you think they're all old and infirm so it wasn't really worth paying such a high price to save them, and many are suffering now due to those measures, but being alive is generally considered 'better off' than being dead, so by that measure some are indeed better off.

I'm not really in a position to comment on what counts as 'conservative' in your mind, I'm not that politically astute. What I remember from before the 80s are wage freezes, price freezes, carless days, unions, strikes, high taxes but excellent health and education systems, government sponsored job creation schemes like 'think big' and the railways, and NZ being about to default on its debt repayments - all coming to a head with the National government under Muldoon.

Then suddenly it was all turned on its head under the Lange labour government, privatisation, deregulation, tax cuts and GST, benefit cuts, no more blue collar unions thanks to the Employment Contracts Act (the professionals were way too smart to give up theirs) and lets face it, most of those jobs were going to China anyway, pressure on wages (so they no longer kept pace with inflation), same with working conditions, property investment becoming the safest way to make money (to supplement the aforementioned wages) hence demand driving housing prices higher and higher, the health and education systems in steady decline...all this under Labour/National turn and turn about.

Throw in an earthquake or two and a pandemic and here we are. Now I'm even more depressed. What was the question again?

[F5 Dave]

Stop parroting Grant Robinson you brainwashed puppet.

Mortgage repayments are going to double for half of all mortgage holders this year or on average $18,000 annual pay decrease to the average Kiwi house hold, this will flow on into rents.

Add to that Wages have not kept up with inflation

Who are you comparing our inflation to ? Venezuela?
Oh, wait. Should we have ticked the box that said

Avoid global inflation ?

Ah damn! We really should have you in power making the decisions.

[nerrrd]

Ooops, how did all this end up in the Trump thread?

Getting things back on topic: I never liked the guy.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

Oh, wait. Should we have ticked the box that said

Avoid global inflation ?

Ah damn! We really should have you in power making the decisions.

Socialist policies made things much worse.

1: Labour should not have had such Draconian immigration policies during the scamdemic, immigration would have help ease price pressures, and labour shortages, and before you start saying "what about covaids at the border?"

What about it? Look at China opening up with half the population vaccinated, last time I seen we had 10s of thousands of covaids case's, and were not dieing in the streets.

2: Capitalism is not a perfect answer, but as you can see it's far better than the alternative, you need competition to drive down prices, where not a big country, we can let a lot more competitive companies and labour in to fill the gaps to drive down inflation.

3: If these policies were in place during covaids, there would have been less need to print money to keep the economy afloat, steady house prices not like the volatile house prices we have now, more imported UK/Asian police and medical staff.

Nothing scary in these policies besides the liberal woke worried about the poor being left behind...the poor are being left behind in an inflationary environment

I secretly hope New Zealand vote socialist labour in for another term, because stupid Kiwis get what they deserve.

[pete376403]

There is insufficient housing for the population we have now, where would you propose the additional immigrants live?

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

There is insufficient housing for the population we have now, where would you propose the additional immigrants live?

There's plenty housing 20 to 40% on sale around the country, stop using that worn out bull shit argument.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

We have a socialist ginga running the country, we have a woke reserve bank ginga governor setting interest rates, any wonder why gingas get a bad rap.

[TheDemonLord]

There is insufficient housing for the population we have now, where would you propose the additional immigrants live?

First answer: If we can't house them, perhaps we shouldn't let them in?

But my actual answer: Repeal the RMA, Restrict Local Councils ability to have a say in what you can or can't do on your private land, Implement a trade school system for young people who aren't academically minded but show an affinity for practical skills.

That way, we can build houses sufficient to home them.

[pritch]

Stop parroting Grant Robinson you brainwashed puppet.
Who are you comparing our inflation to ? Venezuela?

None of that came from Robertson. That's all from the international tables. You need to stop listening to Newstalk ZB.

Why are you worried about mortgage rates, most people of your alleged wealth don't have one.

Who was I comparing NZ inflation to? The UK, the US, Europe, Australia. I haven't seen the latest figures but would be surprised if they have changed much.

For a guy who claims to have wealth you seem to know nothing about economics. On second thoughts that would explain you holding Tesla shares...

[TheDemonLord]

We had choices in how to react, sure, but I still think that the choices that were made were completely reasonable at the time, in context.

Hard Disagree.

I'm on record as saying that it was unreasonable at the time.


Lessons need to be learned, but those lessons were not as 'obvious' at the time as many, such as yourself, are now claiming.

The only lesson that ought to be learned is that anytime the Government tramples on Civil Liberties, it always ends badly for everyone.


I have no doubt there are people whose lives were saved due to at least some of the Covid measures taken. I know you think they're all old and infirm so it wasn't really worth paying such a high price to save them, and many are suffering now due to those measures, but being alive is generally considered 'better off' than being dead, so by that measure some are indeed better off.

Okay, let me take the extreme position for a moment (I'll get to what I think in a minute) - What is better off?

Letting Grandma live a few more years and crippling the next generation with poor education, poor language development, massive inflation etc. etc
Letting Grandma die and having the next Generation be better off and grateful for their sacrifice?'

It's a horrible question, but it cuts right to the very heart of the issue and before everyone jumps on their keyboards about how much of an Asshole I am - think about this: What is it that Parents do? We sacrifice on multiple fronts so that our Children have a good upbringing, in the hopes that the Sacrifices we make today will benefit them in the future.

And that include sacrificing your life for theirs

Now that we've addressed the most extreme version of what I'm accused of believing, let's get to what I actually believe. Once the initial data on Covid came in, it was pretty clear that

- Age
- Pre-existing conditions

Were the 2 biggest risk factors - With that in mind, the strategy should have been to have a voluntary quarantine for those who fit that criteria (anyone over 65) and anyone with any of the pre-existing conditions that were risk factors.

Everyone else would be free to Work, go to school etc. and manage their own risk as they saw fit.

No need for massive Government spending to artificially prop up the economy, which means no massive Inflation. With everyone civil liberties respected, people aren't as hostile to the Government and other institutions.


I'm not really in a position to comment on what counts as 'conservative' in your mind, I'm not that politically astute. What I remember from before the 80s are wage freezes, price freezes, carless days, unions, strikes, high taxes but excellent health and education systems, government sponsored job creation schemes like 'think big' and the railways, and NZ being about to default on its debt repayments - all coming to a head with the National government under Muldoon.

Then suddenly it was all turned on its head under the Lange labour government, privatisation, deregulation, tax cuts and GST, benefit cuts, no more blue collar unions thanks to the Employment Contracts Act (the professionals were way too smart to give up theirs) and lets face it, most of those jobs were going to China anyway, pressure on wages (so they no longer kept pace with inflation), same with working conditions, property investment becoming the safest way to make money (to supplement the aforementioned wages) hence demand driving housing prices higher and higher, the health and education systems in steady decline...all this under Labour/National turn and turn about.

Throw in an earthquake or two and a pandemic and here we are. Now I'm even more depressed. What was the question again?

I'll admit - I'm a little scant on details on the 80s NZ political situation - I didn't live it - but some highlights that jump out at me:

- Many of the 'Think Big' projects didn't really start to pay for themselves until the 1990s
- Rogernomics (which IIRC was under the Lange Labour Government) - I mean, if I read some of the things done under Rogernomics - it's making ACT's current policies look positively left-wing (quick point here to make the observation of how far the Overton Window has shifted Left)

My view is that the Conservative view from a philosophical view is based in Individualism. That flows down to things such as less Government interference, less Taxes etc. Essentially Government policy should be grounded in Individual Rights and Liberties - that these should be protected.

Pretty sure the ECA was under the National Government from the 90s onwards.

For the Health system, I'm starting to think that some of the failures that we are seeing (that we didn't use to see) are due to our own success. In the 80s, you were more likely to drop dead out of the blue or after a short illness.

Our ability to prolong life (at a cost) has meant that people who would have died in the 80s are now living - but in some instances they are doing so artificially and at a great cost.

I'm not passing any judgement here on that last part FYI.

As for Schools - Corporal Punishment was outlawed in 1987...

[husaberg]

None of that came from Robertson. That's all from the international tables. You need to stop listening to Newstalk ZB.

Why are you worried about mortgage rates, most people of your alleged wealth don't have one.

Who was I comparing NZ inflation to? The UK, the US, Europe, Australia. I haven't seen the latest figures but would be surprised if they have changed much.

For a guy who claims to have wealth you seem to know nothing about economics. On second thoughts that would explain you holding Tesla shares...

You would think with all his alleged investments he would want high interest rates to enable him to get higher returns for all his alleged wealth invested....
unless ......could it be that's he's full of crap....

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

You would think with all his alleged investments he would want high interest rates to enable him to get higher returns for all his alleged wealth invested....
unless ......could it be that's he's full of crap....

Lower interest rates push up asset prices like stocks and real estate.

Lower interest also create investment in new business,yes increased wealth for the top 5% but increased wealth for the middle class, the only ones that miss out are the bottom feeders of society, because it's easier to beg and complain than to better yourself.

[husaberg]

Lower interest rates push up asset prices like stocks and real estate.

Lower interest also create investment in new business,yes increased wealth for the top 5% but increased wealth for the middle class, the only ones that miss out are the bottom feeders of society, because it's easier to beg and complain than to better yourself.

this is only true if you dont have actually money in the bank, With you being so ubber rich you should have lots of money in the bank unless of course....you are not actually rich.....

[F5 Dave]

Socialist. Draconian. He doesn't even know what those words mean. Learn some fucking history.

[Laava]

Ooops, how did all this end up in the Trump thread?

Getting things back on topic: I never liked the guy.
Bit dodgy eh?

[MD]

Except Taiwan.



What helped in NZ was:

- Geographic isolation
- low population density
- single digit points of entry and exit
- Higher UV Radiation
- No mass transit systems

None of which are or where Government Policy.

.[/I]

You left out that we had a massive supply of tin foil hats thanks to your friends stockpiling and we wore gumboots and jandals. Brazilians were not fans of gumboots and paid the price.

As much as I detest this Labour government when C19 starting spreading across the globe [Jan 2020 thereabouts] and lots of people started dying, they reacted quickly based on the little knowledge the world had at that time and took steps. Whether you think they were the right steps with the wonder of your hindsight, they took steps, nevertheless, to try and mitigate the risk that this could be one mass killer like the Spanish flu. I would rather they took steps and tried, and failed, than sat back and said, well let's wait and be sure it is going to kill hundreds, thousands of our people before we 'take steps' that might annoy some sensitive citizens demanding 'give me back my freedoms' Rather hard to demand 'give me back my freedoms' if you were one of the unfortunate that died of a unknown fast spreading global virus. At that time I had an 83 y.o. Mother and I was scared shitless that C19 would take her from me. If wearing a mask MIGHT save her, vaccines MIGHT save her, reducing peoples movements temporary MIGHT save her, what a small fucking inconvenience that was to ask.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

https://naomiwolf.substack.com/p/dear-conservatives-i-am-sorry

Outspoken with Dr Naomi Wolf
Subscribe
Sign in
Dear Conservatives, I Apologize
My "Team" was Taken in By Full-Spectrum Propaganda

Dr Naomi Wolf
Mar 10
2,545
2,590
There is no way to avoid this moment. The formal letter of apology. From me. To Conservatives and to those who “put America first” everywhere.

It’s tempting to sweep this confrontation with my own gullibility under the rug — to “move on” without ever acknowledging that I was duped, and that as a result I made mistakes in judgement, and that these mistakes, multiplied by the tens of thousands and millions on the part of people just like me, hurt millions of other people like you all, in existential ways.

Outspoken with Dr Naomi Wolf is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Type your email…
Subscribe
But that erasure of personal and public history would be wrong.

I owe you a full-throated apology.

I believed a farrago of lies. And, as a result of these lies, and my credulity — and the credulity of people similarly situated to me - many conservatives’ reputations are being tarnished, on false bases.

The proximate cause of this letter of apology is the airing, two nights ago, of excepts from tens of thousands of hours of security camera footage from the United States Capitol taken on Jan 6, 2021. The footage was released by House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) to Fox News commentator Tucker Carlson [https://www.axios.com/2023/03/08/mccarthy-defends-jan-6-footage-tucker-carlson-fox-news].

While “fact-checkers” state that it is “misinformation” to claim that Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi was in charge of Capitol Police on that day [https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/27/fact-check-nancy-pelosi-isnt-in-charge-capitol-police/8082088002/], the fact is that the USCP is under the oversight of Congress, according to — the United States Capitol Police: [https://www.uscp.gov/the-department/oversight].

This would be the same Congress that convened the January 6 Committee subsequently, and that used millions of dollars in taxpayer money to turn that horrible day, and that tragic event, into a message point that would be used to tar a former President as a would-be terrorist, and to smear all Republicans, by association, as “insurrectionists,” or as insurrectionists’ sympathizers and fellow-travelers.

There is no way to unsee Officer Brian Sicknick, claimed by some Democrats in leadership and by most of the legacy media to have been killed by rioters at the Capitol that day, alive in at least one section of the newly released video. The USCP medical examiner states that this Officer died of “natural causes,” but also that he died “in the line of duty.” Whatever the truth of this confusing conclusion, and with all respect for and condolences to Officer Sicknick’s family, the circumstances of his death do matter to the public, as without his death having been caused by the events of Jan 6, the breach of the capitol, serious though it was, cannot be described as a “deadly insurrection.” [https://www.uscp.gov/media-center/press-releases/medical-examiner-finds-uscp-officer-brian-sicknick-died-natural-causes] Sadly, though the contrary was what was reported, Officer Sicknick died two days after Jan 6, from suffering two strokes. https://lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-siege/capitol-police-officer-brian-sicknick-died-of-natural-causes-after-suffering-two-strokes-day-after-jan-6-report/

There is no way for anyone thoughtful, even if he or she is a lifelong Democrat, not to notice that Sen Chuck Schumer did not say to the world that the footage that Mr Carlson aired was not real. Rather, he warned that it was “shameful” for Fox to allow us to see it. The Guardian characterized Mr Carlson’s and Fox News’ sin, weirdly, as “Over-Use” of Jan 6 footage. Isn’t the press supposed to want full transparency for all public interest events? [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2023/mar/07/biden-medicare-taxes-desantis-trump-2024-live-updates] How can you “over-use” real footage of events of national relevance?

Sen Mitch McConnell (R-KY), Senate minority leader, did not say the video on Fox News was fake or doctored. He said, rather, that it was “a mistake” to depart from the views of the events held by the chief of the Capitol Police. This is a statement from McConnell about orthodoxy — not a statement about a specific truth or untruth. [https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5060662/senator-mcconnell-calls-tucker-carlsons-depiction-january-6-attack-mistake]

I don’t agree with Mr Carlson’s interpretation of the videos as depicting “mostly peaceful chaos.”[https://thehill.com/homenews/media/3887103-tucker-carlson-shows-the-first-of-his-jan-6-footage-calls-it-mostly-peaceful-chaos/] I do think it is a mistake to downplay how serious it is when a legislative institution suffers a security breach of any kind, however that came to be.

But you don’t have to agree with Mr Carlson’s interpretation of the videos, to believe, as I do, that he engaged in valuable journalism simply by airing the footage that was given to him.

And remember, by law that footage belongs to us — it is a public record, and all public records literally belong to the American people. “In a democracy, records belong to the people,” explains the National Archives. [https://www.archives.gov/publications/general-info-leaflets/1-about-archives.html]

You don’t have to agree with Carlson’s interpretation of the videos, to notice the latest hypocrisy by the Left. My acquaintance and personal hero Daniel Ellsberg was rightly lionized by the Left for having illegally leaked the Pentagon Papers. The New York Times was rightly applauded for having run this leaked material in 1971. [https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1435/daniel-ellsberg].

I do not see how Mr Carlson’s airing of video material of national significance that the current government would prefer to keep hidden, or Fox News’ support for its disclosure to the public, is any different from that famous case of disclosure of inside information of public importance.

You don’t have to agree with Mr Carlson’s interpretation of the videos, to conclude that the Democrats in leadership, for their own part, have cherry-picked, hyped, spun, and in some ways appear to have lied about, aspects of January 6, turning a tragedy for the nation into a politicized talking point aimed at discrediting half of our electorate.

From the start, there have been things about the dominant, Democrats’ and legacy media’s, narrative of Jan 6, that seemed off, or contradictory, to me. (That does not mean I agree with the interpretation of these events in general on the right. Bear with me).

There is no way to un-hear the interview that Mr Carlson did with former Capitol police office Tarik Johnson, who said that he received no guidance when he called his superiors, terrified, as the Capitol was breached, to ask for direction. [https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-talks-exclusively-key-capitol-police-officer-ignored-by-jan-6-panel-amid-footage-release]

That situation is anomalous.

There is always a security chain of command in the Capitol, at the Rayburn Building, at the White House of course, and so on, which is part of a rock-solid “security plan.” [https://www.dhs.gov/news/2014/09/30/written-testimony-usss-director-house-committee-oversight-and-government-reform].

There are usually, indeed, multiple snipers standing on the steps of the Capitol, facing outward. I made note of this when I was researching and writing The End of America. There is never improvisation, or any confusion in security practices or in what is expected of “the security plan”, involving “principals” such as Members of Congress, or staff at the White House. I know this as a former political consultant and former White House spouse.

The reason for a tightly scripted chain of command and an absolutely ironclad security plan in these buildings, is so that security crises such as the events of Jan 6 can never happen.

The fact that so much confusion in security practice took place on Jan 6, is hard to understand.

There is no way to not see that among the violent and terrifying scenes of that day, as revealed by Mr Carlson, there were also scenes of officers with the United States Capitol Police accompanying one protester who would become iconic, the “Q-Anon Shaman”, Jacob Chansley - and escorting him peaceably through the hallways of our nation’s legislative center. [https://www.foxnews.com/media/former-lawyer-qanon-shaman-says-jan-6-footage-wasnt-shown-client-calls-prison-sentence-tragedy].

I was oddly unsurprised to see the “Q-Anon Shaman” being ushered through the hallways by Capitol Police; he was ready for the cameras in full makeup, horned fur hat, his tattooed chest bare (on a freezing day), and adorned in other highly cinematic regalia. I don’t know what Mr Chansley thought he was doing there that day, but so many subsequent legacy media images of the event put him so dramatically front and center — and the barbaric nature of his appearance was so illustrative of exactly the message that Democrats in leadership wished to send about the event — that I am not surprised to see that his path to the center of events was not blocked but was apparently facilitated by Capitol Police.

A point I have made over and over since 9/11 is that many events in history are both real and hyped. Many actors in historic events have their agendas, but are also at times used by other people with their own agendas, in ways of which the former are unaware. Terrorists and terrorism in the Bush era are one example. This issue was both real and hyped.

“Patriots” or “insurgents” (depending on who you are) entering the Capitol can be part of a real event that is also exploited or manipulated by others. We don’t know yet if this is the case in relation to the events of Jan 6, or to what extent it may be the case. That is where a real investigation must come in.

But as someone who has studied history, and the theatrics of history, for decades, I was not at all surprised to see, on Mr Carlson’s security camera footage, the person who was to became the most memorable ‘face’ of the ‘insurrection’ (or the riot, or the Capitol breach) — escorted to the beating heart of the action, where his image could be memorialized by a battery of cameras forever.


There are other aspects of the Jan 6 breach that seemed anomalous to me from the start. I study the relationship in history of buildings such as The White House and the Capitol, to the US public; I follow the way in which the public is either welcomed into or barred from these structures.

The White House itself and the Capitol steps have often been open to US citizens. They are public buildings.

Indeed, inaugurations have been open public events in which the US citizenry simply entered the building for the celebration; this tradition lasted from President Jefferson’s inauguration in 1801, to 1885.

Things got very chaotic indeed in 1829. “On March 4, 1829, Andrew Jackson upholds an inaugural tradition begun by Thomas Jefferson and hosts an open house at the White House.

After Jackson’s swearing-in ceremony and address to Congress, the new president returned to the White House to meet and greet a flock of politicians, celebrities and citizens. Very shortly, the crowd swelled to more than 20,000, turning the usually dignified White House into a boisterous mob scene. Some guests stood on furniture in muddy shoes while others rummaged through rooms looking for the president–breaking dishes, crystal and grinding food into the carpet along the way. […]

The White House open-house tradition continued until several assassination attempts heightened security concerns. The trend ended in 1885 when Grover Cleveland opted instead to host a parade, which he viewed in safety from a grandstand set up in front of the White House.” [https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/jackson-holds-open-house-at-the-white-house].

And inaugurations were not the only occasions in which US citizens approached their public buildings in Washington.

The Bonus Army, which massed in the summer of 1932, during the Depression, to claim the financial “bonus” promised to veterans who had served in World War I, is an example of citizens assembling peaceably at the Capitol. When I was an undergraduate, we were taught that the Bonus Army sat on the steps of the Capitol and lobbied the legislators who were entering and leaving the building. I remember from my history textbook, images of crowds seated on the Capitol steps in 1932.


“[M]ore than 25,000 veterans and their families traveled to Washington, DC, to petition Congress and President Herbert Hoover to award them their bonus immediately. Fortunately for the marchers, Pelham Glassford, the local police chief and a veteran of the war himself, made accommodations for this influx, including the creation of an enormous camp in the Anacostia Flats […]. Glassford understood that Americans had an inherent right to assemble in Washington and petition the government for the “redress of grievances” without fear of punishment or reprisals. […]

On June 15, the House of Representatives passed the new bonus bill by a vote of 211 to 176. Two days later, some 8,000 veterans massed in front of the Capitol as the Senate prepared to vote, while another 10,000 assembled before the raised Anacostia drawbridge. The police were anticipating trouble because of the large crowds. The Senate debate continued until after dark. […]

When it appeared that the bonus would not be paid, many of the marchers refused to leave, and President Hoover ordered the Army to evict them. Using tear gas, tanks, and a troop of saber-wielding cavalry commanded by Major George S. Patton, U.S. Army chief of staff General Douglas MacArthur drove the marchers out of Washington and burned their main camp on the Anacostia Flats.”[https://billofrightsinstitute.org/essays/the-bonus-army]


I mention the massing of the Bonus Army on the Capitol steps in 1932, to note that the dominant narrative around Jan 6 today, often implies that it is an act of violence or of “insurrection” simply to march en masse peacefully to the Capitol.

But we should be wary of allowing history to be rewritten so as to criminalize peaceful, Constitutionally-protected assembly at “The People’s House.”

Massing peacefully at the Capitol and other public buildings, is part of our rights and inheritance as citizens, and this use of our First Amendment right to assemble has a long history. Indeed, the public has traditionally had the right peacefully to enter the Capitol — to obtain passes to events, to galley seats, and to witness the proceedings in other ways.

The Capitol is not a sealed space exclusively for legislators, but it is one that is supposed to welcome the public in an orderly way. [https://history.house.gov/Collection/Search?Term=Search&Classifications=Historical+Artifacts%3A+Passes&CurrentPage=1&SortOrder=Title&ResultType=Grid&PreviousSearch=Search%2CTitle]. We should not be encouraged to forget this.

The violence of Jan 6 and its subsequent service as a talking point by the Democrats’ leadership, risks its use also to justify the closing off of our public buildings from US citizens altogether.

This would be convenient for tyrants of any party.

Leaving aside the release of the additional Jan 6 footage and how it may or may not change our view of US history —- I must say that I am sorry for believing the dominant legacy-media “narrative” pretty completely from the time it was rolled out, without asking questions.

Those who violently entered the Capitol or who engaged in violence inside of it, must of course be held accountable. (As must violent protesters of every political stripe anywhere.)

But in addition, anyone in leadership who misrepresented to the public the events of the day so as to distort the complexity of its actual history — must also be held accountable.

Jan 6 has become, as the DNC intended it to become, after the fact, a “third rail”; a shorthand used to dismiss or criminalize an entire population and political point of view.

Peaceful Republicans and conservatives as a whole have been demonized by the story told by Democrats in leadership of what happened that day.

So half of the country has been tarred by association, and is now in many quarters presumed to consist of chaotic berserkers, anti-democratic rabble, and violent upstarts, whose sole goal is the murder of our democracy.

Republicans, conservatives, I am sorry.

I also believed wholesale so much else that has since turned out not to be as I was told it was by NPR, MSNBC and The New York Times.

I believed that stories about Hunter Biden’s laptop were Russian propaganda. Dozens of former intel officials said so. Johns Hopkins University said so. [https://sais.jhu.edu/news-press/hunter-biden-story-russian-disinformation-dozens-former-intel-officials-say].

“Trump specifically cited a “laptop” that contained emails allegedly belonging to Hunter Biden”, said ‘CNN Fact-Check’, with plenty of double quote marks. [https://www.cnn.com/factsfirst/politics/factcheck_036fb62c-377f-4c68-8fa5-b98418e4bb9c]

I believed this all — til it was debunked.

I believed that President Trump’s campaign colluded with Russia — until that assertion was dropped. [https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/03/mueller-concludes-investigation/]

I believed that President Trump was a Russian asset, because the legacy media I read, said so [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jan/29/trump-russia-asset-claims-former-kgb-spy-new-book].

I believed in the entire Steele dossier, until I didn’t, because it all fell apart. [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63305382].

Was there in fact an “infamous pee tape”? So many other bad things were being said about the man — why not? [https://www.businessinsider.com/christopher-steele-trump-pee-tape-probably-exists-2021-10]

I believed that Pres Trump instigated the riot at the Capitol — because I did not know that his admonition to his supporters to assemble “peacefully and patriotically” had been deleted from all of the news coverage that I read. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-11/trump-team-hoping-peacefully-and-patriotically-will-be-shield]

Excerpt:

"Because of lies such as these in legacy media — lies which I and millions of others believed — half of our nation’s electorate was smeared and delegitimized, and I myself was misled.

It damages our nation when legacy media put words in the mouths of Presidents and former Presidents, and call them traitors or criminals without evidence.

It damages our country when we cannot tell truth from lies. This is exactly what tyrants seek — an electorate that cannot know what is truth and what is falsehood.

Through lies, half of the electorate was denied a fair run for its preferred candidate.

I don’t like violence. I do believe our nation’s capitol must be treated as a sacred space.

I don’t like President Trump (Do I not? Who knows? I have been lied to about him so much for so long, I can‘t tell whether my instinctive aversion is simply the habituated residue of years of being on the receiving end of lies).

But I like the liars who are our current gatekeepers, even less.

The gatekeepers who lie to the public about the most consequential events of our time — and who thus damage our nation, distort our history, and deprive half of our citizenry of their right to speak, champion and choose, without being tarred as would-be violent traitors - deserve our disgust.

I am sorry the nation was damaged by so much untruth issued by those with whom I identified at the time.

I am sorry my former “tribe” is angry at a journalist for engaging in —- journalism.

I am sorry I believed so much nonsense.

Though it is no doubt too little, too late —

Conservatives, Republicans, MAGA:

I am so sorry."

[pete376403]

There's plenty housing 20 to 40% on sale around the country, stop using that worn out bull shit argument.

And the people who are selling, where are they going to live? Sleeping in their flood damaged teslas?

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

And the people who are selling, where are they going to live? Sleeping in their flood damaged teslas?

This has to be the dumbest quote I have read on this forum

"And the people who are selling, where are they going to live?"

Just think about that for a quick minute...

[Berries]

Bit dodgy eh?
Fucking A.

[husaberg]

This has to be the dumbest quote I have read on this forum

"And the people who are selling, where are they going to live?"

Just think about that for a quick minute...

That's pretty funny especially as you earlier claimed tesla had no cameras and paid dividends on shares.
The only thing you are a rich resource for is fails.....

[sugilite]

I'm aware of Tucker and have seen the occassional clip of him, I've seen interviews of his on other people's shows who I do watch - but for his Fox show - I don't watch Fox and I don't watch him.

The fact that you do not watch fox has zero relevance to the damage fox did to faith in democracy and indeed the Conservative movement in the US. Sorry to break that to you.


wokeism and all the other Marxist derived claptrap is a new Religion of sorts, but it's not to 'pull people away from the Church' - it's that there is a type of person who needs something to believe in and if they aren't believing in a traditional religion (or have outright rejected traditional religions) then they latch onto a new Religion.
You can throw MAGATS hat directly into that ring too.




Taiwan, did a better job. So did Sweden (Until Putin invaded Ukraine...)

How about this: Instead of constantly moaning on the internet about how shit nz is, why not admit you made a mistake by emigrating here. Then bugger off to one of these 2 beacons of light countries you mention above?
I mean to say, Taiwan, sparkling future prospects! And Sweden - great neighbours! Your family will thank you, or maybe not.

[TheDemonLord]

You left out that we had a massive supply of tin foil hats thanks to your friends stockpiling and we wore gumboots and jandals. Brazilians were not fans of gumboots and paid the price.

As much as I detest this Labour government when C19 starting spreading across the globe [Jan 2020 thereabouts] and lots of people started dying, they reacted quickly based on the little knowledge the world had at that time and took steps. Whether you think they were the right steps with the wonder of your hindsight, they took steps, nevertheless, to try and mitigate the risk that this could be one mass killer like the Spanish flu.

Hindsight?

I'm pretty sure I said that it was wrong from the beginning. There's no Hindsight here.

What you've articulated is something that I think is the biggest reason for the terrible politics of today - the idea that the Government should 'do something'. Nevermind whether it makes it better or more often than not, makes it worse, the demand that 'someone (else) do something' is another issue at the core of our failing society. Rather than demand others do something, why not do it yourself?



I would rather they took steps and tried, and failed, than sat back and said, well let's wait and be sure it is going to kill hundreds, thousands of our people before we 'take steps' that might annoy some sensitive citizens demanding 'give me back my freedoms' Rather hard to demand 'give me back my freedoms' if you were one of the unfortunate that died of a unknown fast spreading global virus.

That assumes though that the steps they took and tried at best didn't make things worse.

This is what you have to contend with.


At that time I had an 83 y.o. Mother and I was scared shitless that C19 would take her from me. If wearing a mask MIGHT save her, vaccines MIGHT save her, reducing peoples movements temporary MIGHT save her, what a small fucking inconvenience that was to ask.

I would never stop her from Wearing a Mask, or taking any Vaccine or her taking steps to minimize the risk of her coming into Contact.

See what I did there?

Rather than impose others limit themselves for my benefit, I'm putting the locus of responsibility back to the locus of Risk: If you are worried about dying from a deadly disease You can take the precautions you feel are necessary to mitigate that risk.

That's the difference.

And yes, it was a Massive Inconvenience to ask.

Case in point - since we are raising personal relations, let me tell you about someone I know personally - She was engaged, had a young family, Fiancee couldn't take the stress of Lockdown and not being able to work and killed himself.

She's been struggling financially ever since, has to receive multiple sorts of Government assistance.

What is the greater cost to Society? An 83 year old who has lead a full and productive life, has raised a successful offspring (dunno if you have brothers or sisters) passing away of Natural causes?
Or a young family crippled during some of the most important formative years of their lives?

Now, I expect you to care as much about my unnamed friend as I do about your Mother (that is - you don't know them, so don't expect anything) - And that's fine, She's your Mum, I'd be devastated if I lost my Mum too - but if the choice was loosing my Mum to a disease or crippling the next generation, I'm not sure that even my Mum would want to make that trade.

That perhaps doing nothing would have done less overall harm than doing something.

[TheDemonLord]

The fact that you do not watch fox has zero relevance to the damage fox did to faith in democracy and indeed the Conservative movement in the US. Sorry to break that to you.

It may or may not - but trying to put it to me as some form of 'Gotcha' isn't going to work when it's not a news outlet I put a lot of stock in.


You can throw MAGATS hat directly into that ring too.

Interesting - but you cannot draw the same religious parallels, because of the Individualist foundation.


How about this: Instead of constantly moaning on the internet about how shit nz is, why not admit you made a mistake by emigrating here. Then bugger off to one of these 2 beacons of light countries you mention above?
I mean to say, Taiwan, sparkling future prospects! And Sweden - great neighbours! Your family will thank you, or maybe not.

Or, I could just ask that NZ go back to how it was before Ardern trashed it with Socialist nonsense.

I think that's a much better option. Repeal everything she did, Job done. Country is better off.

Sweden though would be tempting. So would Norway. So would the USA.

[1/32 man]

Rather than demand others do something, why not do it yourself?


I already devoted forty years, yes forty years to the young people of New Zealand....some turned out shit like that meth addict living in a tree in Onekawa but many others have lead successful lives. When some young person recognises me in a shop or at a dog park and they still want to speak to me then I know I did a good job.

Measure that ERO!

So TDL what positive effects on the country have you created....in three sentences please.

[Al Bundy 4eva!]

What has happened to the political left that I once supported?

Karmila Harris vice President democrats

Climate mental health? Affecting your ability to get a job and affects your activism??

The next generation is brainwashed to fuckery.


https://youtu.be/IyiGRQ6dC0M

[sugilite]

It may or may not - but trying to put it to me as some form of 'Gotcha' isn't going to work when it's not a news outlet I put a lot of stock in.

Still in all about you mode I see. The first time I bought this subject up with you, I prefixed it with know you don't watch fox. I'm not presenting it as a gotcha moment - though your posting style would certainly make you feel many responses are a gotcha. The fact you have not commented on it, just points to your bias and how that bias renders the majority of your posts as being largely unbalanced and irrelevant. The damage fox has done to confidence in democracy and to the conservative movement as a whole cannot be overstated. Whether you watch fox or not is wholly unimportant to the point I'm making. (but the fbi leaning on twitter to kill a story for less than 24 hours - armageddon is here :laugh:)



Interesting - but you cannot draw the same religious parallels, because of the Individualist foundation.
Your logic rules out those fun loving marxists too then. Try again?



Or, I could just ask that NZ go back to how it was before Ardern trashed it with Socialist nonsense.

I think that's a much better option. Repeal everything she did, Job done. Country is better off.

Sweden though would be tempting. So would Norway. So would the USA.
Well, you know that is not going to happen. So I will quote you from a post you made to another poster just before the post you are responding to here....


What you've articulated is something that I think is the biggest reason for the terrible politics of today - the idea that the Government should 'do something'. Nevermind whether it makes it better or more often than not, makes it worse, the demand that 'someone (else) do something' is another issue at the core of our failing society. Rather than demand others do something, why not do it yourself?
So, why not take your own advice, rather than foister your unrealistic idea of reversing all Arderns policies, take the matter in your own hands and book those plane tickets right now. Too easy!!! :sunny:
I hear the USA is quite hard to get a green card, but I also hear you can just waltz in through any open border you like as an illegal. As a matter of courtesy, you should send a thank you note to the best president in the history of USA presidents ever - President Biden :bleh:

[TheDemonLord]

I already devoted forty years, yes forty years to the young people of New Zealand....some turned out shit like that meth addict living in a tree in Onekawa but many others have lead successful lives. When some young person recognises me in a shop or at a dog park and they still want to speak to me then I know I did a good job.

Measure that ERO!

So TDL what positive effects on the country have you created....in three sentences please.

I'm a Girl Guide Leader.

[TheDemonLord]

Still in all about you mode I see. The first time I bought this subject up with you, I prefixed it with know you don't watch fox. I'm not presenting it as a gotcha moment - though your posting style would certainly make you feel many responses are a gotcha. The fact you have not commented on it, just points to your bias and how that bias renders the majority of your posts as being largely unbalanced and irrelevant. The damage fox has done to confidence in democracy and to the conservative movement as a whole cannot be overstated. Whether you watch fox or not is wholly unimportant to the point I'm making. (but the fbi leaning on twitter to kill a story for less than 24 hours - armageddon is here :laugh:)

Sure - but then you ignore the point I've made:

Newspapers lying = Free Speech.
FBI Suppressing news = Not Free Speech.

I even included a Democrat outright saying it.


Your logic rules out those fun loving marxists too then. Try again?

If you ignore the Collectivist element of Marxism, then sure.

But seeing as that's foundational to the idea...



Well, you know that is not going to happen. So I will quote you from a post you made to another poster just before the post you are responding to here....

So, why not take your own advice, rather than foister your unrealistic idea of reversing all Arderns policies, take the matter in your own hands and book those plane tickets right now. Too easy!!! :sunny:
I hear the USA is quite hard to get a green card, but I also hear you can just waltz in through any open border you like as an illegal. As a matter of courtesy, you should send a thank you note to the best president in the history of USA presidents ever - President Biden :bleh:

It may or may not happen. There's a few policies in particular I'd like repealed, some limits put on the Government etc. Some of which are more likely than others - but still possible.

[F5 Dave]

What has happened to the political left that I once supported?

Karmila Harris vice President democrats

Climate mental health? Affecting your ability to get a job and affects your activism??

The next generation is brainwashed to fuckery.


https://youtu.be/IyiGRQ6dC0M

Sorry? Are you American? How did you support them? Did you vote for them?

[F5 Dave]

Let's have a whip around. Send TDL back to the UK.

What an ungrateful dick.

[husaberg]

Let's have a whip around. Send TDL back to the UK.

What an ungrateful dick.

Save a seat for mashed potato as well

[1/32 man]

TDL did keep it to less than three sentences.
But....


I'm a Girl Guide Leader.

Who said, “when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser”?

[pritch]

It has been announced that Trump’s plan for the decoration of the new Air Force One aircraft has been shelved.

He wanted the exterior painted similar to ‘Trump Force One’.his own Boeing. He specified marble basins and gold plated fittings (of course). Marble is too heavy, his proposed paint job might have caused the interior to be hotter and require extra cooling. Faster and easier to consign his proposals to file 13.

Those ‘planes are loaded with technology, defence systems, and in flight refuelling gear. Weight must already be a problem.

[Berries]

Who said, “when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser”?
Your momma.

[Laava]

Those ‘planes are loaded with technology, defence systems, and in flight refuelling gear. Weight must already be a problem.
Thank fuck for Bidens skinny white arse then!😆😆😆

[TheDemonLord]

Let's have a whip around. Send TDL back to the UK.

What an ungrateful dick.

Are you saying you like NZ better now than before Ardern?

[TheDemonLord]

TDL did keep it to less than three sentences.
But....

Who said, “when the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser”?

What Slander?

I mean, you could always just admit that you presumed that I don't contribute to my local community and the next generation and you could graciously accept that this presumption was wrong.

[1/32 man]

I mean, you could always just admit that you presumed that I don't contribute to my local community

So in less than three sentences please inform me/us how you make a contribution so that the world is a better place.

Credit where credit is due, of course. And I did assume you are just a keyboard wankerer of the worst kind.

[sugilite]

Sure - but then you ignore the point I've made:

Newspapers lying = Free Speech.
FBI Suppressing news = Not Free Speech.


It was a little more than just lying, it was directly undermining confidence in democracy, which curiously you don't give one shit about.
Had you considered the FBI asking for the story to be suppressed for less than 24 hours might have been so they could ascertain if there was any national security risk involved first?
I watched the so called twitter files expose by musk and then the unhinged bobert and co grilling the ex twitter execs and it was all a big nothing burger. The largest conservative media authority by far undermining democracy is a much bigger deal. Unless if course your personal agenda talking points keep your head buried in the sand.


If you ignore the Collectivist element of Marxism, then sure.

But seeing as that's foundational to the idea...
Marxists far left, magas far right. So yeah, under your framework as laid out in an earlier post, yes they are a replacement quasi religion - fawning over a false orange god.





It may or may not happen. There's a few policies in particular I'd like repealed, some limits put on the Government etc. Some of which are more likely than others - but still possible.
By who, the nats? Or labor lite as you call them.
I'll just take it you are not one for taking advice and you will not be booking plane tickets any time soon. Maybe nz is not as bad as what you continually like to make out? I mean, if not, Why are you still here? Just think of the fun you could have gloating at us how much better everything is for you in your new utopian country of choice.

[sugilite]

Are you saying you like NZ better now than before Ardern?
How do you relate F5's kind offer of a whip around to help you escape the pain and suffering you are so clearly enduring with your sentence above?

[TheDemonLord]

So in less than three sentences please inform me/us how you make a contribution so that the world is a better place.

Credit where credit is due, of course. And I did assume you are just a keyboard wankerer of the worst kind.

I kinda assumed that the title would give you enough implied information.

But since you asked - I'll tell you the thing I'm most proud of contributing:

- Teaching Girls and Young ladies to say no and how to advocate for themselves.

I've done this not only in that role but also numerous times in my Corporate life, where we've had talented ladies who were unhappy with being pushed around and being too agreeable - they asked me for help, since (this may come as a surprise) that I'm quite disagreeable and like to argue - teaching them how to set healthy boundaries and how to be their own advocate, then seeing them advance in their careers has been and continues to be - a very proud moment for me.

[TheDemonLord]

It was a little more than just lying, it was directly undermining confidence in democracy, which curiously you don't give one shit about.
Had you considered the FBI asking for the story to be suppressed for less than 24 hours might have been so they could ascertain if there was any national security risk involved first?
I watched the so called twitter files expose by musk and then the unhinged bobert and co grilling the ex twitter execs and it was all a big nothing burger. The largest conservative media authority by far undermining democracy is a much bigger deal. Unless if course your personal agenda talking points keep your head buried in the sand.

One breaches the constitution, the other does not.

It doesn't matter if it was 'only 24 hours' (IIRC it was much longer than that it was a bannable subject).

The Government breaching the constitution is, in my opinion, worse.

And let's not forget all the sins of the Left Wing Media - Muh Russia Hoax. Which by the same token unduly influenced Democracy.


Marxists far left, magas far right. So yeah, under your framework as laid out in an earlier post, yes they are a replacement quasi religion - fawning over a false orange god.

Not really - There's a myriad of reasons - the big difference though is the Collectivist elements - it's really important, The Maga Right as you say see themselves first as individuals, they are opposed to group identity - I mean I could quote MLK again - something something Content of their Character something.

Without the collective element, it fails as a quasi religion.

The other problem is that there is the Religious Right - they already have a God and an outlet for those impulses.


By who, the nats? Or labor lite as you call them.

I can't remember which poster here that said it - but it was the best summation:

"Christopher Luxon as a puppet with Seymours hand up his arse" (or some variant of that). I don't hold much hope for National, but if there is a 15-20 seat ACT coalition, there's some hope of them accidentally doing the right thing.


I'll just take it you are not one for taking advice and you will not be booking plane tickets any time soon. Maybe nz is not as bad as what you continually like to make out? I mean, if not, Why are you still here? Just think of the fun you could have gloating at us how much better everything is for you in your new utopian country of choice.

If I had no family, I would have moved several years ago.

But we all have options and we make our choices.

And it just so happens my preference would be NZ before Ardren ruined it.

[TheDemonLord]

How do you relate F5's kind offer of a whip around to help you escape the pain and suffering you are so clearly enduring with your sentence above?

No, I'm asking if he believes what he's saying.

Cause I'm willing to bet that he doesn't actually think NZ is better off after Ardern.

In which case, he's no different from me.

[mashman]

I watched the so called twitter files expose by musk and then the unhinged bobert and co grilling the ex twitter execs and it was all a big nothing burger.

Massive state overreach with regards to free speech and the suppression of truth across all social media platforms, more prolifically from the left, but from both sides, a nothing burger? You make it sound like an episode of coronation street... and and the evidence that people didn't bother to look at with regards to the Jan 6 leftist cockup... damn.



The largest conservative media authority by far undermining democracy is a much bigger deal. Unless if course your personal agenda talking points keep your head buried in the sand.


Hamilton 68 are not conservatives. That's where the 'news' that's been undermining democracy has been coming from... or did you miss that twitter files?

[1/32 man]

ut since you asked - I'll tell you the thing I'm most proud of contributing:

- Teaching Girls and Young ladies to say no and how to advocate for themselves.

Cringe

You might be proud of that but I would say you are outside your role as a man. Some bitchy woman should be doing that. Might I suggest that you should be whispering into the ears of the ones doing the pushing around .

And the three sentence rule was stretched to breaking point in your explanation.

Credit where credit is due rating, out of five.....1.75


Trump.....?????

Why do I read and write this drivel?

[neels]

I'm quite disagreeable and like to argue

I think we'd already figured that out.....

[TheDemonLord]

Cringe

You might be proud of that but I would say you are outside your role as a man. Some bitchy woman should be doing that. Might I suggest that you should be whispering into the ears of the ones doing the pushing around .

And the three sentence rule was stretched to breaking point in your explanation.

Credit where credit is due rating, out of five.....1.75


Trump.....?????

Why do I read and write this drivel?

"What are you doing to help people?"
"this is what I'm doing."
"Someone else should be doing that!"

I've had a call from Eden Park, they'd like their goalposts back.

But to answer the accusation - you can't control other people, you can only control yourself - so telling other people to play nicely is ultimately a fools strategy. Giving other people the tools to deal with assholes is a long-term strategy, and it pays off.

Hence why it's my most proud moment. When someone quits their job and based on the advocacy I gave them, secured themselves a significant pay rise and said afterwards 'I'd have been happy with X, but I remember what you told me - and I put my started rate as Y and they accepted!'

Also as a note - you may notice that again I'm advocating for the Internalized approach vs the Externalized approach, almost like it's a common thread in my belief(s)

[sugilite]

One breaches the constitution, the other does not.

It doesn't matter if it was 'only 24 hours' (IIRC it was much longer than that it was a bannable subject).

The Government breaching the constitution is, in my opinion, worse.

And let's not forget all the sins of the Left Wing Media - Muh Russia Hoax. Which by the same token unduly influenced Democracy.
Except you have a Trump sized turd in your morning cornflakes yet again, he and his admin tried leaning on twitter to get tweets banned outright :lol:
And the many convictions from the russia investigation shit on your premise there too. The counter investigation came up empty handed to boot ;laugh:




Not really - There's a myriad of reasons - the big difference though is the Collectivist elements - it's really important, The Maga Right as you say see themselves first as individuals, they are opposed to group identity - I mean I could quote MLK again - something something Content of their Character something.

Without the collective element, it fails as a quasi religion.

The other problem is that there is the Religious Right - they already have a God and an outlet for those impulses.
Outright lies from you here. So you would have us believe the magas going to trump rallies see themselves as individuals and not a collective movement? :killingme


I can't remember which poster here that said it - but it was the best summation:

"Christopher Luxon as a puppet with Seymours hand up his arse" (or some variant of that). I don't hold much hope for National, but if there is a 15-20 seat ACT coalition, there's some hope of them accidentally doing the right thing.
the turd in your cornflakes here is provided by your 2023 pin up gal Jacinda, she had the smarts to realize she was unelectable and stood down. With Hipkins, Labor has surged ahead in popularity. Imagine if Trump had done the same before 2020. The GOP would be in power now. Yet another example of Jacinda being a much better leader than Trump ever was.




If I had no family, I would have moved several years ago.

But we all have options and we make our choices.

And it just so happens my preference would be NZ before Ardren ruined it.
so reading between the lines, unlike you, your family enjoys the lifestyle here and appreciates what NZ has too offer. Kudos to you for putting them ahead of your sulky restriction on bang bangs you are allowed to keep in your cabinet.

[TheDemonLord]

Except you have a Trump sized turd in your morning cornflakes yet again, he and his admin tried leaning on twitter to get tweets banned outright :lol:

But did that supress a news story that potentially change the Election?

No?

Bit of a difference then.


And the many convictions from the russia investigation shit on your premise there too. The counter investigation came up empty handed to boot ;laugh:

No convictions for what was actually alleged though. And when all was said and done we got confirmation - the Russia Hoax was a fabrication by the DNC and investigated at the behest of a partisan FBI, propagated by a partisan media.


Outright lies from you here. So you would have us believe the magas going to trump rallies see themselves as individuals and not a collective movement? :killingme

Yes.

Individuals first and foremost who temporarily and voluntarily join a group.

Here's the difference:

If you hold the Collectivist view, let's pick Race - no matter what you do, you are Black/White/Yellow/Whatever no matter what you do. You can do other things, but you will always be your race.
If you hold an Individualist view, You are You first and foremost. Let's use a sporting analogy, You might be a Blues fan and I might be a Crusaders fan, we go to a Super Rugby match - we are on opposite side and engage in good banter about how each others' team sucks. The next day, it's the All Blacks against Australia - we sit side-by-side in unity.

In one world view, you cannot do that - you will always be the thing that divides you - which is why collectivist ideologies always descend into quasi-tribal violence.
In the individualist world view, you can move between groups freely, whilst remaining yourself.

It is a key difference.



the turd in your cornflakes here is provided by your 2023 pin up gal Jacinda, she had the smarts to realize she was unelectable and stood down. With Hipkins, Labor has surged ahead in popularity. Imagine if Trump had done the same before 2020. The GOP would be in power now. Yet another example of Jacinda being a much better leader than Trump ever was.

That's one way of viewing it.

I view it completely differently. I look at it as utter-cowardice of walking away from a burning building after you doused it in petrol and started playing with Matches. I also don't believe she walked voluntarily, I believe she was told she could jump or be pushed.

I've seen some of the polling, it could be short lived boost due to a new leader - Labour has promised to stop some of their more egregious policies, which I don't believe them for a second - if the more guillible voter believes that, then it's just more proof IMO that we are doomed.

And just so we are clear - there is nothing in this world that will ever convince me that Jacinda was or is a good leader.

There is more chance of me convincing you that Trump wasn't that bad than there is of you convincing me that Jacinda was anything but terrible.


so reading between the lines, unlike you, your family enjoys the lifestyle here and appreciates what NZ has too offer. Kudos to you for putting them ahead of your sulky restriction on bang bangs you are allowed to keep in your cabinet.

It's not just about Firearms. It's about personal Liberties.

The guns suck, I was more dismayed by the introduction of a requirement 'May we see your Papers' than anything else. This may seem small to you, but I can assure you, this aversion is a very deep cultural heritage of being British. That and the Lockdowns and the reaction by most people told me that despite my love for the country as a place to live and the people in general, something very wrong has happened with our culture.

Seeing in the USA (as an example) where they outright rejected these things tells me that the foundation our civilization prospered on still exists there.

I also wouldn't presume that my Family hasn't considered moving.

[1/32 man]

I know, I have a good idea......lets blame Pence for it all.
I mean, we all know what a loser he is.

[sugilite]

Another tdl wall of waffle, not going to bother replying from a phone.
Trump gives meatball ron de sanctimonious a well earned pummelling. Dead and useless trump says. Recently Ron told us of his authoritarian leaning ambitions by wanting bloggers critical of him to enrol on a register. Yet another gop free speech fraud.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/13/trump-lashes-out-desantis-regrets-endorsement-00086861

[TheDemonLord]

Another tdl wall of waffle, not going to bother replying from a phone.
Trump gives meatball ron de sanctimonious a well earned pummelling. Dead and useless trump says.

Not Dead and Useless, read the article, he's talking about in 2018.


Recently Ron told us of his authoritarian leaning ambitions by wanting bloggers critical of him to enrol on a register. Yet another gop free speech fraud.

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/13/trump-lashes-out-desantis-regrets-endorsement-00086861

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-ron-desantis-blogger-bill-florida-591224630083

Come on Sugi, you are better than this. Not only is it not from Ron, but the actual detail of the Bill isn't about being Critical, it's about Paid content.

[sugilite]

Not Dead and Useless, read the article, he's talking about in 2018.



https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-ron-desantis-blogger-bill-florida-591224630083

Come on Sugi, you are better than this. Not only is it not from Ron, but the actual detail of the Bill isn't about being Critical, it's about Paid content.

The current God Father of US Conservatives, Mr Gingrich, does not agree with you, thus it is you that needs to do better old bean ;)

https://apnews.com/article/desantis-blogger-registration-media-republican-florida-07f3fa45848f351a0b2696455d0c4372

According to Trump, meatball ron begged him in 2018 for an endorsement :laugh:
Ole Desanctimonious has a glass jaw that trump will smash.
I well remember meatballs mouth drop open and do a terrific gold fish impression seemingly for an eternity when asked an entirely predictable question by his mid term opponent as to if he would complete his 4 year long governorship.
Ill admit, Trump is very good at demolishing opponents in debates. He willl shred dead on arrival rons presidential ambitions, along with gops hopes and prayers for winning the presidency in 2024 in one foul swoop. :devil2:

[TheDemonLord]

The current God Father of US Conservatives, Mr Gingrich, does not agree with you, thus it is you that needs to do better old bean ;)

https://apnews.com/article/desantis-blogger-registration-media-republican-florida-07f3fa45848f351a0b2696455d0c4372

Okay, from your article:


The bill, filed by Sen. Jason Brodeur of Lake Mary, would require bloggers to file periodic reports with the state if they are paid for posts about the state’s governor, lieutenant governor, cabinet members or legislative officials.

Bloggers would have to disclose who paid them and how much, along with other information such as where the post is located online.

- Not Ron DeSantis.
- Not for Criticizing.

Further on:


It brings the current pay-to-play scheme to light and gives voters clarity as to who is influencing their elected officials, JUST LIKE how we treat lobbyists. It’s an electioneering issue, not a free speech issue.

The opponents of the Bill say it's about stifling free speech, but the proponents say it's about transparency.

I can certainly see how such a requirement could lead to a chilling effect.
I can also see how using paid bloggers as essentially Election advertisement that isn't bound by the normal rules around campaigning is an issue.

However, the initial claim that Ron wants to fine people who criticize him is astronomically off the mark.

As I said - that sort of incorrectness is not becoming of you.


According to Trump, meatball ron begged him in 2018 for an endorsement :laugh:
Ole Desanctimonious has a glass jaw that trump will smash.
I well remember meatballs mouth drop open and do a terrific gold fish impression seemingly for an eternity when asked an entirely predictable question by his mid term opponent as to if he would complete his 4 year long governorship.
Ill admit, Trump is very good at demolishing opponents in debates. He willl shred dead on arrival rons presidential ambitions, along with gops hopes and prayers for winning the presidency in 2024 in one foul swoop. :devil2:

Until Ron announces a presidential bid (something he hasn't done yet) - all we've got is speculation.

[pritch]

Latest from the Lincoln Project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3O0sBx0FY4

[sugilite]

As I said - that sort of incorrectness is not becoming of you.

Sure it is, lying is free speech and words don't matter ™TDL :laugh:



Until Ron announces a presidential bid (something he hasn't done yet) - all we've got is speculation.
Cummon, Meatball has released the book and visiting all the right swing states.
If you are suggesting he may lose his bottle, then yes that could well track too. bullies often crumble when coming up against bigger bullies.

[TheDemonLord]

Sure it is, lying is free speech and words don't matter ™TDL :laugh:

Lying is free speech, you are absolutely right.
Lying is something you also have a great aversion to (see all your posts about Trump Lies).

You'll note, I didn't say anything about the Media lying, I criticized you for believing it.

Think of it like a Trial - both lawyers will embellish and deceive - and it's the Jury who sorts the wheat from the chaff. I don't begrudge the Lawyer for concocting the most convincing argument, even if it's not really based in the truth.

The point was though - The bill was not by Ron nor was it about Criticism.

However, if it makes you happy, despite having a lot of sympathy with both sides of the argument (and especially that Influencers/bloggers should be considered as Lobbyists if they are receiving funds) - I'm leaning ever-so-slightly to the chilling of Free Speech argument.


Cummon, Meatball has released the book and visiting all the right swing states.
If you are suggesting he may lose his bottle, then yes that could well track too. bullies often crumble when coming up against bigger bullies.

I don't disagree he's a strong contender and that all the signs point towards a likely run. I'm just saying we are counting chickens when all we have are eggs.

There's some areas where I think Ron could beat Trump in a Debate - the question is how much collateral damage would Ron take from engaging in that Debate. In the 2016 Primary, when Trump was laughed at as an outsider - he absolutely demolished all his opponents in the Debates.

[pritch]

Ill admit, Trump is very good at demolishing opponents in debates. He willl shred dead on arrival rons presidential ambitions, along with gops hopes and prayers for winning the presidency in 2024 in one foul swoop. :devil2:

A podcast I was listening to, a former Republican operative, was saying all Trump has to do in a debate is stand next to DeSantis who is apparently vertically challenged.
He has taken to wearing high heeled boots but...

I particularly liked the TV ad DeSantis put out featuring himself as a fighter pilot. He was a junior lawyer in the navy. His record shows that at one point his job was assistant coordinator of collecting urine for drug analysis. Not quite a fighter pilot.

The book banning in Florida under DeSantis is extreme. Anybody can suggest a book be removed from a school library and it must be removed immediately. There is no requirement that they have even read the book.

[TheDemonLord]

I particularly liked the TV ad DeSantis put out featuring himself as a fighter pilot. He was a junior lawyer in the navy. His record shows that at one point his job was assistant coordinator of collecting urine for drug analysis. Not quite a fighter pilot.

I liked that Advert - however, considering the tag-line was 'Top Guv' (perhaps a topical reference to a popular and beloved set of movies...) No one except those maliciously desperate to misrepresent and smear him would think that he is sincerely portraying himself as being a Fighter Pilot.


The book banning in Florida under DeSantis is extreme. Anybody can suggest a book be removed from a school library and it must be removed immediately. There is no requirement that they have even read the book.

You sure you aren't getting confused with California again? :lol::lol:

And more to the point - do I need to post the screenshot of the comic that started all this? Schools have fucked around, now they are finding out.

[F5 Dave]

Ban the bible.

[Laava]

Jeezus goan' burn you boye!

[pritch]

It seems somebody is having trouble sleeping. I can't verify this as I'm not subscribed to his foundering 'social media empire' but it is circulating on Twitter.

[neels]

The book banning in Florida under DeSantis is extreme. Anybody can suggest a book be removed from a school library and it must be removed immediately. There is no requirement that they have even read the book.

You sure you aren't getting confused with California again? :lol::lol:.

No, he's not, saw a bit about it the other night, included a woman in her 70's who's never had kids getting books banned from her local school just by objecting to them.

Sure doesn't sound like freedom.....

[Laava]

It seems somebody is having trouble sleeping. I can't verify this as I'm not subscribed to his foundering 'social media empire' but it is circulating on Twitter.
Fuck me! I had no idea the guy had a sense of humour!

[TheDemonLord]

No, he's not, saw a bit about it the other night, included a woman in her 70's who's never had kids getting books banned from her local school just by objecting to them.

Sure doesn't sound like freedom.....

You missed the joke - the last time Pritch was complaining about Florida banning books, it turned out that the book in question wasn't banned in Florida and was actually recommended to be read. It was, however, banned in California for using Period-correct Racial Slurs (no points for guessing which).

However, I'm presuming that the ban you and he are referring to is from Duval county (this it the one that comes up most frequently).

https://pen.org/banned-books-florida/

I picked 2 at random.

One is about the TV Show 'I am Jazz' - a Transgender character.
The other is was about Dr James Barry - a Transgender (FtM) surgeon from the 1800s.

Hmmmmm I'm starting to notice a pattern and might have a wee bit of an inkling as to why they got banned.

Let's see... These books are part of a collection of works:

https://www.perfectionlearning.com/elementary/elementary-class-libr/essential-voices.html

Grades K-12, first line:


Engage all your students in independent reading through these diverse, inclusive collections

I smell a very distinct and familiar smell...

https://nextstep.perfectionlearning.com/black-history-month-the-friend-you-need


And Joseph recognizes that if you’re reading his book, “you’re probably a white person who wants to do better,” (16) but he also doesn’t hold back: “The world needs you to step up, or get out of the way, Particularly if you’re a white person. The world needs to be better, and because of the power that white people hold in society, much of that change needs to start with white people. The oppression that white people have inflicted on people of color since, well, damn, the very inception of this country can only be undone by the oppressors (white people).” (15–16)

....
One of the ways Joseph does this is by bolding terms and creating what he calls The Encyclopedia of Racism. As an expert Black person, Joseph, throughout the book, defines, adds context, and explains terms his white readers may need to explore further or need additional information to understand.

“I hope you already looked up white privilege from page 1.

And there it is. Woke, Intersectional, Marxist nonsense.

Oh, and Pritch - there's your CRT being taught to K-12 again, in case you want to deny it again.

Those bold statements are straight out of CRT.

[sugilite]

As per my report, not much wrong with the principles of CRT.
There is a lot wrong with right wing pollies demonizing it and via their lying right wing "news" outlets in order to send their scardy cat white constituents to hide under their couches.

[pete376403]

The other is was about Dr James Barry - a Transgender (FtM) surgeon from the 1800s..

James Barrys "transgenderism" was the only way that she could become a doctor, at a time when the practice was male only " A renowned military surgeon, he rose to become inspector general of hospitals – one of the highest army medical posts – and served throughout the British empire. Notoriously irascible, Barry fought a duel with a fellow officer, ticked off Florence Nightingale and survived several army inquiries into his conduct. He was a humane doctor, fervent public health reformer and famous for his peculiarities: a teetotaller and vegetarian, he travelled with a menagerie of small animals."
As she at some stage had a child, she was still female when needed. I am sure hte people whose lives were saved by the doctor probably had no problems with how she dressed and appeared.

[TheDemonLord]

As per my report, not much wrong with the principles of CRT.

Did you read the works of Antonio Gramsci yet? Or at least, an overview of his work and how it relates to CRT?

Because I assure you, there is everything wrong with the Principles of CRT.

Let's start with an easy one - Was Integration good or bad?


There is a lot wrong with right wing pollies demonizing it and via their lying right wing "news" outlets in order to send their scardy cat white constituents to hide under their couches.

If anything, the right wing news outlets don't go far enough.

[TheDemonLord]

James Barrys "transgenderism" was the only way that she could become a doctor, at a time when the practice was male only " A renowned military surgeon, he rose to become inspector general of hospitals – one of the highest army medical posts – and served throughout the British empire. Notoriously irascible, Barry fought a duel with a fellow officer, ticked off Florence Nightingale and survived several army inquiries into his conduct. He was a humane doctor, fervent public health reformer and famous for his peculiarities: a teetotaller and vegetarian, he travelled with a menagerie of small animals."
As she at some stage had a child, she was still female when needed. I am sure hte people whose lives were saved by the doctor probably had no problems with how she dressed and appeared.

This is not a slight on their achievements - only to say which particular angle is being taken.

In terms of the victorian description - "Someone who lived publicly as the opposite sex for their entire life" - absolutely fits the modern definition of being Transgender.

[sugilite]

Did you read the works of Antonio Gramsci yet? Or at least, an overview of his work and how it relates to CRT?



They ditched him as he was too radical, quietly let him go so to speak. They clearly realized he was just going to hurt their cause.
The GOP could take a leaf out of that approach with several in their party.
I have done my research. I know your views and they are baseless radical right gibber jabber aimed at scaring the base. I see no merit in engaging in this subject with you.
Because you are so hopelessly biased to the right, your arguments inevitably are almost always circular - in ever decreasing radius until you are forced to spout absolute twaddle as evidenced in my signature. A reminder to myself and others just how hopelessly compromised you are and the absurdity you will go to in order too make yourself belief your view is the only possible correct one.

[F5 Dave]

And I'm getting the feeling he may identify as Dork. Just put him on ignore and he goes away.

[TheDemonLord]

They ditched him as he was too radical, quietly let him go so to speak. They clearly realized he was just going to hurt their cause.

The GOP could take a leaf out of that approach with several in their party.


Oh really?


I have done my research. I know your views and they are baseless radical right gibber jabber aimed at scaring the base. I see no merit in engaging in this subject with you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci


Antonio Francesco Gramsci 22 January 1891 – 27 April 1937) was an Italian Marxist philosopher, journalist, linguist, writer, and politician.

Now, Forgive me a moment Dear Sugi - but could you clarify as to what you mean in the first part?

Because given that I'm talking about an 1930s Italian Marxist (whose theory on Cultural Hegemony is key to the formation of CRT and other Critical Theories) - your answer makes no sense. It would seem that at best, your research is incomplete.

In your CRT review, you correct identified the roots of CRT to the Frankfurt School - a few quotes from Wikipedia (that notorious Right Wing source):


The Frankfurt School perspective of critical investigation (open-ended and self-critical) is based upon Freudian, Marxist and Hegelian premises of idealist philosophy.

and


Like Karl Marx, the Frankfurt School concerned themselves with the conditions (political, economic, societal) that allow for social change realized by way of rational social institutions.[6] Their emphasis on the critical component of social theory derived from their attempts to overcome the ideological limitations of positivism, materialism, and determinism by returning to the critical philosophy of Kant and his successors in German idealism—principally the philosophy of Hegel, which emphasized dialectic and contradiction as intellectual properties inherent to the human grasp of material reality.

Now, I know I get accused of writing screeds of text, but not even my worst posts are a scratch on the Jibber-Jabber and Twaddle of deep Marxist theory. However, here is a rough translation:

"We have envisioned in our big brains how the world ought to be and so will attempt to bring our ideal vision into being by constant revolution"

The problem is that CRT's whole purpose is to undermine the social cohesion, so that a Communist Revolution can happen. How do I know this? Because they cite Gramsci and his theory of Cultural Hegemony. Don't believe me?

Again, from famed Right-wing Source, Wikipedia:


The war of position is an intellectual and cultural struggle wherein the anti-capitalist revolutionary creates a proletarian culture whose native value system counters the cultural hegemony of the bourgeoisie. The proletarian culture will increase class consciousness, teach revolutionary theory and historical analysis, and thus further develop revolutionary organisation among the social classes.[7] After winning the war of position, socialist leaders would then have the necessary political power and popular support to realise the war of manœuvre, the political praxis of revolutionary socialism.

Replace the word 'Class' with the word 'Race' and it reads word-for-word like your definition of CRT.


Because you are so hopelessly biased to the right, your arguments inevitably are almost always circular - in ever decreasing radius until you are forced to spout absolute twaddle as evidenced in my signature.

I mean sure, if you strip away all that important Context, it does seem silly. When you factor in the actual context, it becomes a lot less silly.

Case in point (since you raised your signature) - there is as much evidence that Fred Trump was at the KKK protesting about it (and arrested for that) as there is that he was at the KKK rally participating in it (and arrested for that).

However one side takes the arrest as proof he's a racist.

You say a lot about bias and absolutism on my part, and to a degree it's warranted, but what about yours?


A reminder to myself and others just how hopelessly compromised you are and the absurdity you will go to in order too make yourself belief your view is the only possible correct one.

You know, you never actually answered one of my other challenges (since we are talking about CRT) - you used to mock me every time I pointed to 'Deep Marxist Roots' - was I correct?

Because to answer that question is to call into doubt the legitimacy of saying I'm compromised to absurdity.

In fact, if I'm correct on this (and I dare say, based on the above, I am), then it is not Me that is Compromised.

[pritch]

Oh, and Pritch - there's your CRT being taught to K-12 again, in case you want to deny it again.
bold statements are straight out of CRT.


Absolutely wrong. CRT is a specific thing. It's not whatever the right wing rabble rousers decide. The Christo fascists and their easily led followers are told crap just to keep them riled up. See also Antifa, Sharia law, grooming, drag shows, etc etc. All this when the real danger to the kids is their pastors and Christian youth group leaders. Then again you saw voting anomolies where none existed, and you thought Trump was a successful business man. You have zero credibility.

Oh, and the banned books include a modern novel about the rise of fascism among ordinary folk in Germany in the thirties. The Diary of Anne Frank is banned too.
They must be worried about offending Nazis. (Offending other Nazis?)

[sugilite]

The first part makes perfect sense. the incomprehension is yours.
The rest is jibber jabber as predicted.
The problem for you is I did do my research.

Your 4th attempt at defending your fred trump quote in no better than the first three, and the fact you keep trying confirms you have no awareness of the absurdity you spout. Hence pointless in directly engaging you in these types of arguements - just a total waste of time.

[TheDemonLord]

Absolutely wrong. CRT is a specific thing.

So what is it when you teach kids the CRT definition of Race, the CRT conception of Race, the CRT version of Race Consciousness, if not teaching CRT?

You never answered this, and I doubt you ever will.


It's not whatever the right wing rabble rousers decide. The Christo fascists and their easily led followers are told crap just to keep them riled up. See also Antifa, Sharia law, grooming, drag shows, etc etc. All this when the real danger to the kid sis their pastors and Christian youth group leaders. Then again you saw voting anomolies where none existed, and you thought Trump was a successful business man. You have zero credibility.

Antifa exist and have committed acts of Terrorism.
Sharia Law definitely exists and has been implemented to a degree in the UK
Grooming definitely happens (see Rochdale and others)
Drag Shows - Drag Queens are innapropriate for Children.

Tell me Pritch, if a Full grown man, in a dress said that he wants to talk to your 5 year old child about Sex - what is your first reaction?

And be honest with me - cause I'm going to be it's not going to be 'Sure! let me leave you two alone, what could possibly go wrong?'


Oh, and the banned books include a modern novel about the rise of fascism among ordinary folk in Germany in the thirties. The Diary of Anne Frank is banned too.
They must be worried about offending Nazis. (Ottending other Nazis?)

I just looked on the link I posted, can't find the Diary of Anne Frank on there - the only reference I could find was a Florida library that wanted to stock all the books they thought were banned - and they included Anne Frank's Diary.

They also included To Kill a Mockingbird - which as I'm sure you'll remember - isn't banned in Florida...

[TheDemonLord]

The first part makes perfect sense. the incomprehension is yours.
The rest is jibber jabber as predicted.
The problem for you is I did do my research.

You did some research. The first part makes zero sense, they didn't 'ditch him' - he was long since dead.

https://archive.org/details/encyclopediaofra0001unse_o0i9/page/344/mode/1up

"Draws broadly from the thought of Gramsci"

Doesn't sound much like they ditched him, sounds like they embraced him.

https://jordaninstituteforfamilies.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Delgado_and_Stefancic_on_Critical_Race_Theory.pdf

"also draws from certain European philosophers and theorists, such as Antonio Gramsci"

I could go on - so pray Tell - How did they 'ditch him'?

However - let's cut right to the question you refuse to answer:

"Is TDL correct about CRT having deep Marxist roots?"

A Simply Yes or No will suffice, but I'll grant you all the nuance you want to add.


Your 4th attempt at defending your fred trump quote in no better than the first three, and the fact you keep trying confirms you have no awareness of the absurdity you spout. Hence pointless in directly engaging you in these types of arguements - just a total waste of time.

The problem is that you are trying to portray something as a fact when at best we don't have the evidence for it. You want to portray Fred as a Racist, because you want to portray The Don as a Racist.

Fine.

In order to do so, you have to go alllllllll the way back to the 1920s and dig up an arrest.

Also, Fine.

The problem is that you don't have the evidence for what you are asserting - and I think USA Today (again, famed right-wing source) articulates it best:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/18/fact-check-fred-trump-detained-kkk-rally-circumstances-unclear/3209853001/


Among those arrested, the article identifies a man with the name and address of the home of Trump’s father in Jamaica, Queens. The article details the charges filed against six of the men. However, it does not identify any charges against the elder Trump and merely states that he “was discharged.”

The article does not say Trump's father was a member or supporter of the KKK or whether he was a bystander, falsely accused or otherwise the victim of mistaken identity during the chaotic event.

It's entirely possible he was a Racist.
It's also entirely possible since he lived in the area where the march happened that he was caught up in it.

We don't know.

What we do know, however, is that there is no other documented instances of him being involved with any Klan activity in the 70+ years since that arrest.

You care about Truth and lies - well, there's the Truth and there's your lie (by omission).

[sugilite]

Strike 5.....

[TheDemonLord]

Strike 5.....

Indeed - you still refuse to answer the direct question as to whether I'm about CRT and Marxism.

If I was wrong, you'd point it out.

Kinda leaves only one option, doesn't it?

[sugilite]

He swings and misses.
I addressed deep marxist roots within that institution in my report.
It does not in anyway devalue what CRT is actually about.
A good idea is a good idea. I care not where it came from.

You can be scared shitless of marxism, it is your right. I just don't live in paranoia and fear of it like you do. Reminds me of the time I said your first name, I think you must have thought you were on many, many peoples hit list - it is actually the ignore list. So quite the opposite when you think about it.
Why so Timid?

[TheDemonLord]

He swings and misses.
I addressed deep marxist roots within that institution in my report.
It does not in anyway devalue what CRT is actually about.
A good idea is a good idea. I care not where it came from.

Still not hearing a Yes or a No.

The problem is that once you admit the answer is a Yes, then I get to point out and you have to agree with me, that like all Marxist philosophy, the ultimate goal is a Communist Utopia.

You are smart, it's why I like debating with you.

You know that a Communist revolution is a bad thing. Not least because it doesn't do the thing that it claims to do, but because of the Millions of people that always die because of it.

You mocked me for not being scared of Covid - a Virus with a 99.9% survival rate.
You mock me now for being scared of Marxism - which if Cambodia is anything to go by, only had a 75% survival rate.


You can be scared shitless of marxism, it is your right. I just don't live in paranoia and fear of it like you do.

Okay - fair question. And you know what? I'll give you a fair answer. Not a Practical answer on why Communism is bad. Not a Historical answer. Not a Philosophical answer. Not even an Economic answer.

I'll give you a personal answer:

I have experienced first hand things that mean something to me be infiltrated, corrupted and destroyed by Marxist derived theories. Not just Entertainment Media (although that's where it started), but friends, Rights, Freedoms etc.

I don't want to grow old in a world where there is raised racial consciousness, because I firmly believe - regardless of how good your intentions - once you teach someone to see another human as the colour of their skin first and foremost, that it will only lead to division and ultimately bloodshed.

The only way Society works is if we first and foremost see each other as the thing that unites us, rather than that which divides us.

At the very root of Marxism, underneath all the layers of Waffle, is one core element: Jealousy.

You cannot build a utopia on Jealousy. You can only build death and destruction.

So yes, I am genuinely concerned that if this continues unabated, it will get to the point where words are no longer used. I don't want that. Not because I think I won't be victorious, but because the price we will have to pay will be steep.

I'll remember this comment because sooner or later, they will come for something that has meaning for you.


Reminds me of the time I said your first name, I think you must have thought you were on many, many peoples hit list - it is actually the ignore list. So quite the opposite when you think about it.
Why so Timid?

I like to keep a strict difference between the two, as is my want and right. A Practice I have kept for many years and intend to continue to do so.

[1/32 man]

Reminds me of the time I said your first name

Is it The?

[TheDemonLord]

Is it The?

I'll admit, I laughed.

[sugilite]

I like to keep a strict difference between the two, as is my want and right. A Practice I have kept for many years and intend to continue to do so.

I would try to hide who I really are if I posted twaddle like you too. Your laughable Fred Trump posts sums up exactly who you are.

[neels]

However, I'm presuming that the ban you and he are referring to is from Duval county (this it the one that comes up most frequently).

You presume incorrectly


I picked 2 at random.

One is about the TV Show 'I am Jazz' - a Transgender character.
The other is was about Dr James Barry - a Transgender (FtM) surgeon from the 1800s.

The fact that you 'randomly' picked two books referencing transgender people that enabled a wee anti diversity/inclusivity rant which somehow derailed further to include paranoia around black lives matter and marxism.......

You could just as easily 'randomly' chosen Lord of the flies, The handmaids tale, or Captain underpants, except that they don't suit your narrative.

:facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

You presume incorrectly
The fact that you 'randomly' picked two books referencing transgender people that enabled a wee anti diversity/inclusivity rant which somehow derailed further to include paranoia around black lives matter and marxism.......

The irony being was that I did pick those two at random.

DIE is Marxism. Just like BLM is Marxism.

It's not really paranoia when the founders outright say 'We are trained Marxists'

That said, if you have the list you are referring to - by all means share it - so we can both look at it.


You could just as easily 'randomly' chosen Lord of the flies, The handmaids tale, or Captain underpants, except that they don't suit your narrative.

:facepalm:

None of which appear on the list I posted, so how could I randomly choose a book that doesn't appear on the list?

[TheDemonLord]

I would try to hide who I really are if I posted twaddle like you too. Your laughable Fred Trump posts sums up exactly who you are.

Even when I deferred to USA Today, a centre-left publication, that outlined exactly how flimsy the claim is, you still think it's laughable.

I remember you ripping me to shreds over pointing out Greta Thurnberg being a puppet - as is only fair.

Yet you are perfectly happy to label Fred Trump a Racist based on significantly less evidence than I used to label Greta.

[Laava]

Is it The?
Is it they?

[FJRider]

In terms of the victorian description - "Someone who lived publicly as the opposite sex for their entire life" - absolutely fits the modern definition of being Transgender.

Although James Barry's entire adult life was lived as a man ... Barry was named Margaret Anne at birth ... and was known as female in childhood. Barry lived as a man in both public and private life. Plain and simply ... to be accepted (firstly) as a university student ... and (secondly) then to pursue a career as a surgeon. Something she could NOT possibly have been able to do as a women.

Barry's biological sex only became known publicly after her postmortem examination.

Similar such actions (living as a male) by women were not unheard of in history. It wasn't about wanting to be a man ... it was wanting the better pay that men got. Although women rising to such high positions (as a male ... in the male dominated society of the time) ... was not common.

Hardly fitting any of the Transgender profiles in modern society ... ;)

[pritch]

An "anti woke" author is asked to define the word woke and fails.

Doncha just love the' "Take your time."

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/W7iWEEcPKoQ

[TheDemonLord]

An "anti woke" author is asked to define the word woke and fails.

Doncha just love the' "Take your time."

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/W7iWEEcPKoQ

Yeah saw that elsewhere - many people who are anti-Woke ripped her to shreds for it.

[TheDemonLord]

Although James Barry's entire adult life was lived as a man ... Barry was named Margaret Anne at birth ... and was known as female in childhood. Barry lived as a man in both public and private life. Plain and simply ... to be accepted (firstly) as a university student ... and (secondly) then to pursue a career as a surgeon. Something she could NOT possibly have been able to do as a women.

Barry's biological sex only became known publicly after her postmortem examination.

Similar such actions (living as a male) by women were not unheard of in history. It wasn't about wanting to be a man ... it was wanting the better pay that men got. Although women rising to such high positions (as a male ... in the male dominated society of the time) ... was not common.

Hardly fitting any of the Transgender profiles in modern society ... ;)

I mean, I never met him or her, so I can't say for certain - however the living as a Man in private life does tend to point strongly to what we would now call Gender Dysphoria. Keeping this up all the way till after Death does also suggest that (to use todays parlance) 'Self-Identified as a Man'.

Given the other books in the list and the political affiliation of the supplier, I think I'm reasonably safe to say that this is the view the author took as well.

[sugilite]

Even when I deferred to USA Today, a centre-left publication, that outlined exactly how flimsy the claim is, you still think it's laughable.

I remember you ripping me to shreds over pointing out Greta Thurnberg being a puppet - as is only fair.

Yet you are perfectly happy to label Fred Trump a Racist based on significantly less evidence than I used to label Greta.

Yes, i remember it took me days of posting to whittle your arguments down to her mother being a opera singer and a highly subjective photo of the thunberg family all wearing antifa tshirts. (likely photoshopped).

I don't give a shit about the newspaper article you linked to.
Fred Trump attended a kkk rally and got arrested , and then in the 1970's fought a law suit regarding not letting apartments to black folk after getting caught out in a sting operation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-governments-racial-bias-case-against-donald-trumps-company-and-how-he-fought-it/2016/01/23/fb90163e-bfbe-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html

[pritch]

The laws in Georgia seem to differ in some respects to other states.

Members of a Grand Jury are allowed to talk to the press as long as they don't reveal any details of their deliberations. That leaves quite a lot.

In some states it's illegal to record a phone conversation unless the other party is informed of the recording. That's not the case in Georgia. We're all familiar no doubt with Trump's phone call to the Georgia Secretary of State asking for 11,780 more votes.

The grand jury members interviewed recently say Trump also phoned the Speaker of the Georgia State House and asked him to overturn the election result. The gent in question died last year and Trump must've heaved a big sigh of relief, one less witness. It turns out though that almost everybody in Georgia must record their phone conversations, or certainly their phone calls with Trump, because the gent in question had - and the grand jury heard the phone call. If there is a trial there will be testimony from the grave.

I say "if" because the Republican politicians in Georgia are in the process of passing a law that will allow them to control a prosecution. That's not how it's supposed to work, the legal system and the political system are supposed to stay seperate. As our very recent ex Minister of Police can attest.

Time for a vinho tinto. Cheers.

[F5 Dave]

You presume incorrectly



The fact that you 'randomly' picked two books referencing transgender people that enabled a wee anti diversity/inclusivity rant which somehow derailed further to include paranoia around black lives matter and marxism.......

You could just as easily 'randomly' chosen Lord of the flies, The handmaids tale, or Captain underpants, except that they don't suit your narrative.

:facepalm:
TR-LA-Lah!

. . . Actually Captain Underpants is a lot smarter than Trump, and a whole waiswaistband size smarter than his supporters.

[TheDemonLord]

Yes, i remember it took me days of posting to whittle your arguments down to her mother being a opera singer and a highly subjective photo of the thunberg family all wearing antifa tshirts. (likely photoshopped).

Ah, so it's photoshopped now - okay - but still, photographic evidence of their support is not sufficient for you on one hand.

but....


I don't give a shit about the newspaper article you linked to.

Why? It's not some right-wing rag, it's a Centre-Left publication. It gives the clear and concise facts.

I think what you don't give a shit about, is that the publication proves that the level of evidence you'll accept against Trump is the lower than the level of evidence you accuse me of accepting for my claims.


Fred Trump attended a kkk rally and got arrested

We don't know if he attended it.

Remember, the Rally was held where he lived - all we definitively know was that he was arrested and then released without charge.

That, my Dear Sugi, is less evidence than a photograph.

It's especially less when you say the Photograph was 'probably photoshopped'


and then in the 1970's fought a law suit regarding not letting apartments to black folk after getting caught out in a sting operation.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-the-governments-racial-bias-case-against-donald-trumps-company-and-how-he-fought-it/2016/01/23/fb90163e-bfbe-11e5-bcda-62a36b394160_story.html

I read the whole article, it was tedious - but one thing jumped out at me - there was no conviction. There was also no explicit tie that this policy came at the behest of either Fred or Donald.

Now, If you want to imply a degree of guilt based on a probability that such a policy came from the top (and not the more likely artifact of life in the late 60s/early 70s) - sure, okay - I'll let that slide....

On one condition though...

That you accept the same standard of evidence of Probability when it comes to Greta.

And considering in the 93 years of Fred Trump's life you only have 2 incidents, one in the 1920s and one in the 70s, whereas with Greta, I can point to multiple incidents in her short life, I don't think the balance of probability is going to be in your favor.

[pritch]

Beginning of the end of Trump's Truth Social?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVIbCvfkO3E

[pritch]

And so it continues...

[FJRider]

I mean, I never met him or her, so I can't say for certain - however the living as a Man in private life does tend to point strongly to what we would now call Gender Dysphoria. Keeping this up all the way till after Death does also suggest that (to use todays parlance) 'Self-Identified as a Man'.

Unless you can come up with a documented account of HER story ... from her or someone she worked with (or knew her AWAY from her WORK life) ... you cannot claim she "Self Identified" as a man.

To back up your claim her as "Self identifying as a Man" ... please post another account that gives her story of her ... in her private HOME life.

I'm betting you cannot.

[TheDemonLord]

Unless you can come up with a documented account of HER story ... from her or someone she worked with (or knew her AWAY from her WORK life) ... you cannot claim she "Self Identified" as a man.

I'm going off the Wikipedia article.

I think there's a pretty coherent argument to be made that if she was posing as a Man purely to pursue her career, then, as per the Wikipedia article, the requirement to act as a Man in her Private life isn't required.

That she appeared to do so tends to suggest she considered herself as Male.

I'll grant you the evidence about the private life (even when looking at the citations in Wikipedia) is a bit scant, but consider that this was only 'discovered' due to a post-mortem again lends itself to her assuming an entirely male identity.


To back up your claim her as "Self identifying as a Man" ... please post another account that gives her story of her ... in her private HOME life.

I'm betting you cannot.

Again, I'm deferring to Wikipedia.

[pritch]

It feels as if we've been here before - but we haven't. This could be a historic first. It is reported that law enforcement agencies are coordinating arrangements in anticipation of an announcement from the Manhattan DA next week that Trump is to be indicted. The Trump campaign has issued a "statement." Well, it's just another rant really.

The normal procedure would be for the New York Governor to contact the Florida Governor asking for the person facing charges to be delivered to New York. How that will go is anybody's guess. These procedures, and there are alternatives, are performed all the time, although never with a former president.

[Laava]

Steven Cheung sounds just like Mottled Chump, in fact, I bet he was just dictated what to say. By the would be dictator.

[onearmedbandit]

Steven Cheung sounds just like Mottled Chump, in fact, I bet he was just dictated what to say. By the would be dictator.

Just curious (and I have no love for any politician), how is Trump a 'would be dictator'?

[F5 Dave]

So, if in your mind as a politician you decide to get your mob on when you dont like the election results, if, and clearly those muppets weren't going to achieve a national coup, but if they did, that would not make you an elected leader. Kinda makes you something else. Choose a word.

[onearmedbandit]

In that scenario then I guess the term 'would be dictator' is appropriate.

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7ZXff3QLYQ

[Laava]

Just curious (and I have no love for any politician), how is Trump a 'would be dictator'?
When he was first in power he louded his thoughts on president for life. Not long after that he louded again about getting his moosh carved into Rushmore. Was he serious or was it a light hearted comment? He doesn't seem the type to do genuine light hearted comments.
Some of the comments on this video are interesting…
https://youtu.be/5LFX7RY5Gug

[TheDemonLord]

So, if in your mind as a politician you decide to get your mob on when you dont like the election results, if, and clearly those muppets weren't going to achieve a national coup, but if they did, that would not make you an elected leader. Kinda makes you something else. Choose a word.

The Right Wing Mob that tried to overthrow their Government in America....

Who all happened to forget to bring their guns....

Sounds legit.

[pritch]

The Right Wing Mob that tried to overthrow their Government in America....

Who all happened to forget to bring their guns....

Sounds legit.

You must be the last person in the world who believes there were no guns. The militia arseholes had major caches nearby. The others with guns in and around the crowd have already been discussed. Then there were all the people who wouldn't go through the metal detectors and Trump's shouted instructions to remove the metal detectors. "They aren't here to hurt me."

It is acknowledged by the people who know about such things as a coup attempt. Specifically a "self coup." Google it.

Trump constantly praised totalitarian leaders: Orban. Erdogan, Kim Jong Un, and last but definitely not least Putin.

[TheDemonLord]

You must be the last person in the world who believes there were no guns. The militia arseholes had major caches nearby. The others with guns in and around the crowd have already been discussed. Then there were all the people who wouldn't go through the metal detectors and Trump's shouted instructions to remove the metal detectors. "They aren't here to hurt me."

Sure - if you could just pictures of the crowd with significant numbers of long guns/rifles - then I'll concede.

But last time we did this - the best you came up with was some really grainy footage that was inconclusive.

Now, I'm sure some people were concealed Carrying.

But again, this is the 2A loving Republicans who believe that 'The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed' - and all of them seem to have left them at home.

And your 'Major cache' - I've seen more ordinance in a Kiwi drug bust.

It's pathetic.

Just so we are clear - this is my Baseline for America:

https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/michigan-1-gty-er-210111_1610394659118_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/10/08/world/08plot4/merlin_177191004_30b5b8c2-26e8-470c-beb1-13a204751157-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg


It is acknowledged by the people who know about such things as a coup attempt. Specifically a "self coup." Google it.

Yes, last time you posted by such people - all of them were raving leftists who might have a teensy-weensy bit of bias.

Which means I don't think their assessment of the situation is neutral.


Trump constantly praised totalitarian leaders: Orban. Erdogan, Kim Jong Un, and last but definitely not least Putin.

Perhaps - some of those are tenuous, however when Biden is quoting Mao - I'd be keeping quiet on that front.

[pritch]

Sure - if you could just pictures of the crowd with significant numbers of long guns/rifles - then I'll concede.

But last time we did this - the best you came up with was some really grainy footage that was inconclusive.

Now, I'm sure some people were concealed Carrying.

But again, this is the 2A loving Republicans who believe that 'The right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed' - and all of them seem to have left them at home.

And your 'Major cache' - I've seen more ordinance in a Kiwi drug bust.

It's pathetic.

Just so we are clear - this is my Baseline for America:

https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/michigan-1-gty-er-210111_1610394659118_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/10/08/world/08plot4/merlin_177191004_30b5b8c2-26e8-470c-beb1-13a204751157-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg



Yes, last time you posted by such people - all of them were raving leftists who might have a teensy-weensy bit of bias.

Which means I don't think their assessment of the situation is neutral.



Perhaps - some of those are tenuous, however when Biden is quoting Mao - I'd be keeping quiet on that front.

Before you get too excited consider that you have virtually never been right about anything. Almost as if you are a total troll.

[F5 Dave]

Hundreds were injured, 5 died from various reasons that might not have, people inside were scared for their lives, four cops committed suicide within 7 months.

And Trump didn't give a toss, he was only concerned of his outcome. Who cares about the lives, deaths, or shitty outcomes of the common people? Not a cunt like that. It shouldn't be a surprise as clearly a narcissist.

Anyone who supports him has to come to terms with their own contempt for human lives. Waste of oxygen springs to mind. Have a good fuking look at yourself.

[pritch]

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2020/10/08/world/08plot4/merlin_177191004_30b5b8c2-26e8-470c-beb1-13a204751157-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg


Wankers or warriors? Most will see the difference.

[FJRider]

I'll grant you the evidence about the private life (even when looking at the citations in Wikipedia) is a bit scant, but consider that this was only 'discovered' due to a post-mortem again lends itself to her assuming an entirely male identity.

An entirely male identity in public full stop. Nothing more.

Your ... " Evidence is A bit scant" ... :killingme


You've got nothing to prove what you claim. Otherwise ... you'd have posted it here in large print ... As per usual ... :beer:


Wikipedia .. ?? really ... ?? :scratch:

[FJRider]

Wankers or warriors? Most will see the difference.

As ex military ... Desert boots and webbing mixed with jungle Cam gear ?? ... most military outfits wouldn't do that.


I wonder if their mother bought their gear.

[Grumph]

So Trump announces he's expecting to be arrested on Tuesday.

Then appeals for mass support to "save America"

Where have we heard this before ?

[Laava]

Sounds like a shootout at the OK corral!

[TheDemonLord]

Before you get too excited consider that you have virtually never been right about anything. Almost as if you are a total troll.

Shall I pull up my Critique about Covid Death measuring in NZ - then the Government changing the way they reported Covid deaths precisely along the lines of my critique?

But in all your rebuttal - one thing is curiously absent...

a picture from Jan 6th of people similarly armed to the picture(s) I posted.

So it would seem my critique of 'They forgot to bring their guns' is entirely justified.

[TheDemonLord]

An entirely male identity in public full stop. Nothing more.

Your ... " Evidence is A bit scant" ... :killingme

You've got nothing to prove what you claim. Otherwise ... you'd have posted it here in large print ... As per usual ... :beer:

Wikipedia .. ?? really ... ?? :scratch:

I mean, if you think Wikipedia is wrong, by all means.

As I said, there's what's on Wiki, but also there's the fact it wasn't discovered until the postmortem which tends to lend itself quite considerably to the notion that they did indeed identify as a Male in their private life.

[TheDemonLord]

Hundreds were injured, 5 died from various reasons that might not have, people inside were scared for their lives, four cops committed suicide within 7 months.

And Trump didn't give a toss, he was only concerned of his outcome. Who cares about the lives, deaths, or shitty outcomes of the common people? Not a cunt like that. It shouldn't be a surprise as clearly a narcissist.

Anyone who supports him has to come to terms with their own contempt for human lives. Waste of oxygen springs to mind. Have a good fuking look at yourself.

Shall I pull up the numbers that were killed and murdered in the BLM Riots? 50+? Billions of dollars of damage?

Cause I'm pretty sure there was quite the support from the likes of the DNC, Media and a few posters here supported it (most tangentially, but still).

So I'd be quite careful with that claim.

[pritch]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-3-755-gold-golf-club-gifted-to-trump-by-the-prime-minister-of-japan-is-one-of-several-foreign-gifts-missing-house-democrats-say/ar-AA18Nd9A?ocid=winpstoreapp&cvid=54416470668345ab8e40bd34b891d1b6&ei=33

[sugilite]

Ah, so it's photoshopped now - okay - but still, photographic evidence of their support is not sufficient for you on one hand.

but....
Did some research, there is a photo of her wearing an actual antifa tshirt, which she later stated was temporarily lent from a friend and she was unaware of it's connotations and consequently condemned them. The photo you posted of the whole family wearing them was both a different tshirt and faked by anti Greta peoples at the time. To confirm, she did wear an antifa tshirt for a few hours. <----- Look balanced reporting, try it sometime.




Why? It's not some right-wing rag, it's a Centre-Left publication. It gives the clear and concise facts.

I think what you don't give a shit about, is that the publication proves that the level of evidence you'll accept against Trump is the lower than the level of evidence you accuse me of accepting for my claims.
I don't give a shit if it is right or left wing leaning media. Getting arrested at a kkk rally and banning black people from his apartments is evidence enough for me.


You on the other hand attempted, poorly to articulate Greta parents parenting style as if you had lived with them for years.





I read the whole article, it was tedious - but one thing jumped out at me - there was no conviction. There was also no explicit tie that this policy came at the behest of either Fred or Donald.

You say you read the article but missed out they were caught is a sting, and multiple employees of Fred Trump are on record as saying they had clear directives not to let apartments to black people from fred trump himself. the case went for 2 years and the trumps took the first plea deal on offer. The Government wanted trumps to comply with the law, and they agreed that they would. No sense for more tax payers money to get wasted fighting it further eh.

Now, considering your deliberate blindness when ever the trump name is invoked, I have once again found your arguments to be tedious to the point of being near worthless replying to as you are just so right wing biased and mind numbingly blind to anything that goes against what ever narrative or tedious right wing talking point you are peddling on any given day. Future sugi responses will be reflective of your behavior.

Don't worry, it's not me, it's you :bleh:

[sugilite]

Shall I pull up the numbers that were killed and murdered in the BLM Riots? 50+? Billions of dollars of damage?

Cause I'm pretty sure there was quite the support from the likes of the DNC, Media and a few posters here supported it (most tangentially, but still).

So I'd be quite careful with that claim.
You can add all the people trump killed at his covid rallies to his tally.

[TheDemonLord]

You can add all the people trump killed at his covid rallies to his tally.

Sure, let's also add in all the people killed by Covid from the BLM riots then.

I can do this all day.

[TheDemonLord]

Did some research, there is a photo of her wearing an actual antifa tshirt, which she later stated was temporarily lent from a friend and she was unaware of it's connotations and consequently condemned them. The photo you posted of the whole family wearing them was both a different tshirt and faked by anti Greta peoples at the time. To confirm, she did wear an antifa tshirt for a few hours. <----- Look balanced reporting, try it sometime.

And how many of your friends have lent you an Antifa T-Shirt? I'm willing to be you don't know anyone who owns an Antifa shirt.

But okay - We've concluded definitively she has worn an Antifa shirt and has Antifa shirt wearing friends - cool.


I don't give a shit if it is right or left wing leaning media. Getting arrested at a kkk rally and banning black people from his apartments is evidence enough for me.

And that's my point, you don't give a shit.

On the Fred Trump thing - let me be charitable. It's entirely possible that he was a man of his time and was racist (at least, by todays standard).

The issue (and why I pressed on this point) is that you've accused me of leaping to conclusions on numerous occasions, with far more evidence. The KKK Rally was literally being held where he lived, it's not like he traveled to attend it (which would be more indicative of him supporting it) - the only info we can draw is that he was arrested - nothing else.

Now, compare to Greta - My point is that she parrots communist talking points, she's grown up in the Liberal Arts, she hangs around with people who have Antifa T-Shirts etc. etc.

And yet - with all of that, somehow my point is absurd and Fred Trump is concrete?


You on the other hand attempted, poorly to articulate Greta parents parenting style as if you had lived with them for years.

Okay Sugi - I'll make you a deal.

Should a Billionaire ever offer one my children to sail around the world in a private yacht to be a mouthpiece for some course du jour - At that point we can settle this debate.

If I'm right - I'll be telling that Billionaire (in no uncertain terms) to Fuck Off and be alerting the Authorities to a potential Nonce.
Whereas if you're right and it's something any reasonable parent would allow, then I'll say yes.

Fair?

and for bonus points - Would you allow it?


You say you read the article but missed out they were caught is a sting, and multiple employees of Fred Trump are on record as saying they had clear directives not to let apartments to black people from fred trump himself. the case went for 2 years and the trumps took the first plea deal on offer. The Government wanted trumps to comply with the law, and they agreed that they would. No sense for more tax payers money to get wasted fighting it further eh.

I certainly read claims that they had clear directives. What was missing was proof that these were directly at the behest of either Trump. Proof that if it existed, I have no doubt would be front and centre of every Left-Wing Rag from now until the Rapture.

Remembering also that the Article made it quite clear that the Government wanted a high profile case to make an example out of to get everyone else to comply - yet, they settled.

That tells me that the evidence they had to convict Fred was flimsy and hearsay at best.


Now, considering your deliberate blindness when ever the trump name is invoked, I have once again found your arguments to be tedious to the point of being near worthless replying to as you are just so right wing biased and mind numbingly blind to anything that goes against what ever narrative or tedious right wing talking point you are peddling on any given day. Future sugi responses will be reflective of your behavior.

Don't worry, it's not me, it's you :bleh:

The blindness you accuse me of (which to be fair probably had 40% truth behind it) - is just as deliberate as the hatred you harbor for the same reason.

Now, onto the Left vs Right, As the overton window has shifted radically to the left in the last 10 years, then yes, I am right-wing Biased.

Don't believe me? Okay - humor me for a second:

Russell Brand - I'm not a huge fan, but this is a man the believes in UBI, Collective consciousness, a bunch of hippy-ish ideals, higher taxes and that excess capitalism is a problem.

He's about as Left as Marx... He's now accused of being Right Wing

Joe Rogan - another notorious liberal person (based on his political views, not the guests he has on his show) - also apparently Right wing.

I made a joke in this thread or another one that Rogernomics of the late 80s Labour Party in NZ were a bit too right-wing for my personal tastes.

The problem is that almost all current Left-wing policy and philosophy is derived at least in part from Collectivist and Marxist principles.

You say a good idea is a good idea regardless of where it comes from - a Noble sentiment. This then begs the question:

Do you want a Communist Revolution?

Because those good sounding ideas were crafted for one specific reason, to undermine the cultural hegemony that was the bulwark against the revolution in the Anglo Nations.

How do I know this? Everytime someone cites Gramsci.

As I said - at some point, they'll come for something that has meaning for you.

[sugilite]

Sure, let's also add in all the people killed by Covid from the BLM riots then.

I can do this all day.
OK, sure. Hardly exonerates trump for doing it does it? He will cheerfully kill people for votes.

BTW, that second Georgia phone call - Trump is well fucked.


wall of waffle
I'm sorry, your wall of text has exceeded the sugi response threshold.

[F5 Dave]

You can add all the people trump killed at his covid rallies to his tally.

Why stop at his rallies. Why not the thousands that didn't need to die due to his policies and politicising of public heath initiatives?

But who cares about those loosers that died? Trump survived Covid (more proof god doesn't exist) with only the best care America could provide. Fuck the population who couldn't afford it.

I read that Trump call to protest and thought, oh fuk here's more proof he doesn't care who gets hurt for his benefit. Bet he would snigger at TDLs death in a stampede if it prevented him getting arrested.

Story I heard today. Woman had 3rd child. Was premature. By the time she was out she owed hospital 50k US$. She couldn't pay. Took her house.

Dirty slut probably deserved it. Her choice to get pregnant when she could have foreseen this happening.

America is fucked. I'm a Capitalist, but Jesus fuk krist that isn't fair. Self interest of rich white males.

Of which I am. But I'm not a cunt like the cunts that only care about making 4 million 5 million. [Insert multiplication factor as applies].

[husaberg]

https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2020-06-05/cdc-some-people-did-take-bleach-to-protect-from-coronavirus


A survey from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that 4% of respondents consumed or gargled diluted bleach solutions, soapy water and other disinfectants in an effort to protect themselves from the coronavirus.
Of the respondents, close to 20% said they washed produce with bleach. Nearly the same percentage reported using a household disinfectant on their hands or skin.Ten percent of people said they had used a cleaning or disinfecting spray on their bodies, and 6% of respondents reported inhaling vapors from household cleaners or disinfectants.

"
These practices pose a risk of severe tissue damage and corrosive injury and should be strictly avoided," the CDC researchers wrote in the report.
The survey, which consisted of more than 500 participants, was conducted in May – after President Donald Trump's widely criticized coronavirus task force briefing in April in which he pondered the use of disinfectants to treat the virus.


"I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute," Trump said. "And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.


People certainly listened to his words as officials from the Maryland Emergency Management Agency sent out an alert one day after receiving more than 100 calls about ingesting disinfectants as a possible treatment for COVID-19, according to the Governor’s office, and reported by ABC News.

Meanwhile, calls to New York City’s Poison Control Center for exposure to specific household cleaners and disinfectants increased more than twofold after the President’s comments on Thursday, WNBC New York reported today. Data from the New York Poison Center center revealed that in the 18 hours after Trump’s comments, the Poison Center received 30 exposure calls about disinfectants. Ten involved bleach, 9 were about Lysol, and 11 others regarding other household cleaners. Compared to the same time window last year, there were a total of 13 exposure calls, with 2 involving bleach, but none involving Lysol-type products.

Maryland, Michigan, New York City, Illinois and Tennessee have reported an uptick in activity at their poison control call centers since Trump appeared to suggest injecting disinfectant could help treat COVID-19 on Thursday, according to health officials.


#note Trump has previously hyped a malaria medication, hydroxycloroquine, as a possible treatment for coronavirus.
A study of coronavirus patients in a US government-run hospital for military veterans found more deaths among those treated with hydroxychloroquine than those treated with standard care.

[F5 Dave]

Click it and turn up the volume.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpa7wEAz7I

[F5 Dave]

What is really fucked is the long term effects of covid being felt and how it fucks peoples health way beyond the initial sickness. But those loosers don't have health insurance so they just suffer and die of who cares? but it wasn't covid directly so fuck them. And we don't care.

Satan bless America

[husaberg]

President Donald Trumpoffered a simple explanation for his wealthy Cabinet choices: Rich people know how to manage money better than poor people do.

Trump responded to criticism about his choices for top economic jobs, including billionaire investor Wilbur Ross for Commerce secretary and former Goldman Sachs President Gary Cohn for chief economic advisor.


2002, Gary Cohn was named the head of the Fixed Income, Currency and Commodities (FICC) division. In 2003, he was named co-head of Equities, and in January 2004, Cohn was named the co-head of global securities businesses.He became president and Co-Chief Operating Officer, and director in June 2006.

Goldman Sachs contributed to the financial crisis by selling subprime, mortgage-backed securities. Alternative Mortgage Products, the bank's mortgage bond division, sold $12.9 billion worth of sub-prime mortgage bonds in 2006.

Goldman has been harshly criticized, particularly in the aftermath of the financial crisis of 2007–2008, where some alleged that it misled its investors and profited from the collapse of the mortgage market. brought investigations from the United States Congress, the United States Department of Justice, and a lawsuit from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission
that resulted in Goldman paying a $550 million settlement.
In federal bail outs Goldman received—more than any other company $12.9 billion plus $10 billion in TARP money it received from the government then paid a record $11.4 billion for employee bonuses in the first half of 2009

On April 14, 2011, the United States Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations released a 635-page report entitled Wall Street and the Financial Crisis: Anatomy of a Financial Collapse which described some of the causes of the financial crisis. The report alleged that Goldman Sachs may have misled investors and profited from the collapse of the mortgage market at their expense.

Wilbur Ross

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross. Was party to many shady deals while vice chair of the Bank of Cyprus, and faced multiple lawsuits and SEC fines for his practices with his other business holdings.
He has also been caught lying under oath, to courts and to Congress, about the purpose behind his agency’s failed attempt to add a citizenship question to the census. https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/563716-bidens-doj-wont-prosecute-wilbur-ross-after-watchdog-found-he-gave/
Ross “threatened to fire top employees” at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration if they did not back up Trump’s claim that Hurricane Dorian was headed for Alabama.

Ross spent most of 2017 in office while maintaining partial ownership of, among other things:

Chinese state-owned enterprises
A shipping company tied to Russian oligarchs
A Cypriot bank that’s involved in Robert Mueller’s investigation
A major player in the auto parts industry with a direct stake in Commerce’s trade policy decisions

On May 23, 2018 the president issued a statement saying that he “instructed Secretary Ross to consider initiating a Section 232 investigation into imports of automobiles, including trucks, and automotive parts to determine their effects on America’s national security.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/24/wilbur-ross-private-email-national-archives-056287

The Commerce Department should not be required to conduct a direct search of Ross’ personal email accounts even though searches of Commerce Department accounts found 280 email chains over a 16-month period that contained references to one of more of the four private accounts he used.


Through the FOIA suit, Democracy Forward obtained evidence that Ross used nongovernment accounts to send or receive official correspondence about interactions with European trade officials as well as details on meetings with a German carmakers and American billionaire Bill Koch, the Post reported.

[Laava]

OK, sure. Hardly exonerates trump for doing it does it? He will cheerfully kill people for votes.

BTW, that second Georgia phone call - Trump is well fucked.


I'm sorry, your wall of text has exceeded the sugi response threshold.
Haha, had to laugh at "I can do this all day"
that seems to be all he actually does do. Imagine if he got paid for all the time spent posting on KB? Haha, he'd be fucken rich!

[Laava]

Not sure if this is intended to humourous or just a comment…

[F5 Dave]

Biden is a useless old cunt. Kamala will never get votes as both coloured and female.

Jesus the Democrats better get their act together.

Bruce Springsteen I say.

And Satan. Glorious Satan

[pritch]

Trump's call to the MAGA faithful to protest is interesting. Most of the leadership of the various wannabe militias that might have answered his call are in prison or awaiting trial.

It's reported that the MAGA plan is to make a human moat around Mar A Lago. They must have forgotten that Trump got planning permission to install a helipad for Marine One when he was president. The planning permission will have expired but the pad is probably still there.

[TheDemonLord]

OK, sure. Hardly exonerates trump for doing it does it? He will cheerfully kill people for votes.

Trump's message was personal freedom - if you want to attend, you are free to do so.

Whereas the Democrats were the one pushing all these ineffective and illiberal policies... Right up until it was time to do a little political violence.


BTW, that second Georgia phone call - Trump is well fucked.

I've heard this tune before - it goes something like:

"We got him this time"
"We totally got him this time"
"This is the Smoking Gun we've been looking for all along!"
"Look how many people who aren't Trump we've charged!"
"Trump is innocent but we are going to claim total success"

Forgive me for being skeptical.

[TheDemonLord]

Of which I am. But I'm not a cunt like the cunts that only care about making 4 million 5 million.

Compared to who?

I'm going to ignore the rest of your post - not because there isn't something to Rebut - but because this line is the most interesting line of all.

See, globally - the '1% richest' people - that's anyone with a net-worth of over about a $1,000,000.

You comparing yourself to those who have 4-5 million is laughable when it comes to your line of argument.

You are comparing yourself to 0.1% of the world and saying that you're not a dick. When you should be comparing yourself to the 99% of the world and realise that if you followed through on that argument to it's logical conclusion, you would have to forfeit all of your wealth to those less fortunate than yourself.

So come F5 Dave - why don't you? You could donate that $50,000 to that poor american Woman? You are probably in the 1%, definitely in the 2% - so why don't you?

This is classic champagne socialist talking points. The answer as to why you don't is simple - you've earned it and they didn't - so why do you get to enjoy that, yet others don't? Why do the rules you set for those with 4-5 million not apply to those with 1 million? or 500,000? Why is it only those Richer than you that are the cunts?

[TheDemonLord]

Haha, had to laugh at "I can do this all day"
that seems to be all he actually does do. Imagine if he got paid for all the time spent posting on KB? Haha, he'd be fucken rich!

Who says I don't ;)

Maybe I just type really fast.

[FJRider]

I mean, if you think Wikipedia is wrong, by all means.

It is usually the only source of information on some subject. Hardly always accurate ... or able to be described as reputable (probably fitting if you like to use it).


As I said, there's what's on Wiki, but also there's the fact it wasn't discovered until the postmortem which tends to lend itself quite considerably to the notion that they did indeed identify as a Male in their private life.

Our understanding of gender and sexuality has changed a lot since the times of James Barry. ‘Transgender’ ... meaning someone whose gender identity differing from the sex that they were assigned at birth ... was not a term used in the 1800s.

In the course of researching this subject ... I found this ..


General Register Office

Somerset House

23rd August 1865

Sir,

It has been stated to me that Inspector General Dr James Barry, who died at 14 Margaret Street on 25th July 1865, was after his death found to be female.

As you furnished the Certificate as to the cause of his death, I take the liberty of asking you whether what I have heard is true, and whether you yourself ascertained that he was a woman and had apparently, been a mother?

Perhaps you may decline answering these questions, but I ask them not for publication but for my own information.

I have the honour to be Sir, Your Faithful Servant,

George Graham

Register General

To: Staff Surgeon Major

D.R. McKinnon


Jame Barry was a mother (Who knew .. ??). Hardly the actions of a Transgender person. AND APPARENTLY (later) ... Got married and had children.

More recently writers have taken a different view of Barry’s so called deception now it could be seen as the subterfuge of an ambitious woman ahead of her time. Today we’re much more inclined to celebrate women who broke barriers ... and we even relish the thought of a woman outwitting the sexist establishment that looked down on her. Some historians have called Barry the first woman to become a qualified doctor in the United Kingdom and have placed Barry in the same category as other daring women who had donned men’s clothes to seek their fortunes and serve their countries.

As tempting as this narrative may be ... what if that is still fundamentally misrepresenting James Barry’s life and identity ... ???

[TheDemonLord]

It is usually the only source of information on some subject. Hardly always accurate ... or able to be described as reputable (probably fitting if you like to use it).

I generally don't use Wikipedia because of it's Left-Wing bias. But when it comes to certain topics, it's useful precisely because of that Bias. This being one of them.


Our understanding of gender and sexuality has changed a lot since the times of James Barry. ‘Transgender’ ... meaning someone whose gender identity differing from the sex that they were assigned at birth ... was not a term used in the 1800s.

In the course of researching this subject ... I found this ..

So, whilst I agree in part, the in part being that some of Gender theory is pure marxist lunacy.

But to give a degree of creedence, I do believe that there is a mental condition called Gender Dysphoria that has always existed. We have pretty conclusively evidence of very effeminate Men, we've got certain cultural practices (Fa-Fa fena? Spelling?) and other bits and pieces that I think it's safe to assume there have always been people who wished they were the opposite sex to what they were born as.

Would James Barry call herself that? I don't know.

But if the claim of 'lived a private life as a man' is correct, then that would certainly fit the requirements to be considered self-identifying as Male based on modern criteria.



Jame Barry was a mother (Who knew .. ??). Hardly the actions of a Transgender person. AND APPARENTLY (later) ... Got married and had children.

It's a lot more common than you'd think. Married Men who've born children to come out as Transgender.

I mean probably the most famous Trans person - Kaitlyn Jenner fits that bill to a T.


More recently writers have taken a different view of Barry’s so called deception now it could be seen as the subterfuge of an ambitious woman ahead of her time. Today we’re much more inclined to celebrate women who broke barriers ... and we even relish the thought of a woman outwitting the sexist establishment that looked down on her. Some historians have called Barry the first woman to become a qualified doctor in the United Kingdom and have placed Barry in the same category as other daring women who had donned men’s clothes to seek their fortunes and serve their countries.

As tempting as this narrative may be ... what if that is still fundamentally misrepresenting James Barry’s life and identity ... ???

This is where the Rubber of the TERF Wars meets the Road (Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminists) - see - they take the narrative of Strong Woman bucking the Patriarchy!

Whereas the Trans Activists point to him and say 'She's a Trans Man you bigots! how dare you erase his existence!'

And people like me sit back and watch them tear each other to pieces.

[1/32 man]

This is the Trumpine thread isn't it?

Try to stay on topic you guys and TDL.

Felonious Trump.....its gonna be a laugh.

[sugilite]

Well put 1/32 man.
Stormy is just a jab, Georgia will deliver the knockout blow.
Its going to be great 😁

[pritch]

Funny though, there has been no official announcement. The cultists are claiming that Biden is using this as a distraction to take the heat off his financial dealings with China. There is a problem with that theory, so far the only statement regarding the arrest was supplied by Trump.

There are some quite unhinged communications pertaining to be from Mar A Lardo but I don't know if they are genuine or not so won't repost them here. They shouldn't be hard to find.

[TheDemonLord]

Well put 1/32 man.
Stormy is just a jab, Georgia will deliver the knockout blow.
Its going to be great 😁

We'll see...

Just a question though, a hypothetical if you will entertain me, Should all this happen and Trump not be convicted of a Crime - will you stop referring to him as a Criminal?

I remember the great glee about how you said of Election Fraud lawsuits that the 50 or so filed all lost meant that there wasn't anything underhanded happening - so I'm trusting that by that same logic - you'll agree that there is/was nothing illegal going on with Trump?

[sugilite]

We'll see...

Just a question though, a hypothetical if you will entertain me, Should all this happen and Trump not be convicted of a Crime - will you stop referring to him as a Criminal?

I remember the great glee about how you said of Election Fraud lawsuits that the 50 or so filed all lost meant that there wasn't anything underhanded happening - so I'm trusting that by that same logic - you'll agree that there is/was nothing illegal going on with Trump?

Well, despite you never actually admitting nothing was going on with election fraud on any sort of meaningful scale after 50 court cases, I'll tell you what. When Trump gets up to the 50 court cases threshold you mention without a conviction, yes I will stop calling him a criminal :sunny:

[TheDemonLord]

Well, despite you never actually admitting nothing was going on with election fraud on any sort of meaningful scale after 50 court cases, I'll tell you what. When Trump gets up to the 50 court cases threshold you mention without a conviction, yes I will stop calling him a criminal :sunny:

Deal.

And I did admit I couldn't get to the 'beyond all reasonable doubt' threshold.

[pritch]

Well, despite you never actually admitting nothing was going on with election fraud on any sort of meaningful scale after 50 court cases, I'll tell you what. When Trump gets up to the 50 court cases threshold you mention without a conviction, yes I will stop calling him a criminal :sunny:

Over sixty court cases. We mustn't get sucked into efforts to minimise the idiocy.

Was just looking at a YouTube clip this morning. A woman who claimed the wind talked to her listed some secrets she obtained thus in a letter to Sidney Powell. None were true but all were repeated as fact on Fox the next day.

Really, anybody who believed this crap is as silly as the woman who listens to the wind while she hangs tinsel and crystals on cacti. Not looking at anybody... :whistle:

[TheDemonLord]

A woman who claimed the wind talked to her listed some secrets she obtained thus in a letter to Sidney Powell. None were true but all were repeated as fact on Fox the next day.

Really, anybody who believed this crap is as silly as the woman who listens to the wind while she hangs tinsel and crystals on cacti. Not looking at anybody... :whistle:

Indeed - if only she was a Left Winger, then she could have created an entire Academic theory about it (like 'White Privilege').

[pritch]

Interesting that Trump said he'd be charged on Tuesday (US time). It's reported that the indictment would apparently normally take place at a hearing of the special grand jury. The grand jury only does about twelve hours a week, half days on Monday, Wednesday, and either Thursday or Friday. They would not normally be meeting on a Tuesday. Anyhoo we'll know tomorrow.

The coverage is tending to the sensational and usually mentions hush money to a porn star. The actual charge is much less exciting and is to do with misuse of electoral funds. Trump's partner in crime has already been jailed for his part in this same incident. Short of a cult member getting selected for the jury there wouldn't seem much chance of an acquital, but hey it's the USA where anything is possible.

[husaberg]

Well, despite you never actually admitting nothing was going on with election fraud on any sort of meaningful scale after 50 court cases, I'll tell you what. When Trump gets up to the 50 court cases threshold you mention without a conviction, yes I will stop calling him a criminal :sunny:
He's already a been shown to have ben in charge and owned a company that admitted and was found guilty of criminal activities.

Donald J. Trump Pays Court-Ordered $2 Million For Illegally Using Trump Foundation Funds
Trump Ordered to Pay Eight Separate Charities $250,000 Each

Remaining $1.8 Million in Trump Foundation Bank Account Disbursed Among Charities

NEW YORK – New York Attorney General Letitia James today released the following statement after Donald J. Trump was forced to pay more than $2 million in court-ordered damages to eight different charities for illegally misusing charitable funds at the Trump Foundation for political purposes:

you have to laugh..............


Additionally, as part of the settlement, Trump was required to agree to 19 admissions, acknowledging his personal misuse of funds at the Trump Foundation, and agreed to restrictions on future charitable service and ongoing reporting to the Office of the Attorney General

[Laava]

For americas sake they need to make an example of this clown. A lot of americans need to see that it is not ok to be a rich and corrupt politician. Money does not make everything ok!

[husaberg]

For americas sake they need to make an example of this clown. A lot of americans need to see that it is not ok to be a rich and corrupt politician. Money does not make everything ok!

famous for being famnous
Zsa Zsa Gabor, Kim kardashound, Don Trump.
All Ass no class

[1/32 man]

Remember OJ?
He was innocent........eh, TDL?

[sugilite]

Remember OJ?
He was innocent........eh, TDL?

Actually, OJ was innocent. Remember the small gloves OJ could not get his hands into, so definitively Trump did it :devil2:

[pete376403]

Actually, OJ was innocent. Remember the small gloves OJ could not get his hands into, so definitively Trump did it :devil2:
Obviously tongue-in-cheek but the more sinister reason of OJs lawyers told him to stop taking arthritis medication, so his hands were swollen. "justice " at any price + slimebag lawyers = who cares if he really did kill the victims?

[pritch]

Trump's call to people to protest is working. There was a gathering at Trump tower. A left leaning reporter said there were just two protestors. That was a lie, there were five.

The protest near the courthouse was bigger. It was made to look even bigger than it was though, the press far outnumbered the twenty or so protestors.

[TheDemonLord]

Actually, OJ was innocent. Remember the small gloves OJ could not get his hands into, so definitively Trump did it :devil2:

So,

If Trump is Acquit, Sugi will admit?

[Pursang]

Trumps 'Call for Protest' underway at DA's office.

352659

[TheDemonLord]

Trumps 'Call for Protest' underway at DA's office.

352659

Ah yes, professionally printed signs and signage.

Definitely a grass roots, spontaneous protest....

Not funded at all...

Definitely not a rent-a-mob crowd.

[FJRider]

I generally don't use Wikipedia because of it's Left-Wing bias. But when it comes to certain topics, it's useful precisely because of that Bias. This being one of them.

Or ... if it's the only convenient argument you can put forward ... <_<


So, whilst I agree in part, the in part being that some of Gender theory is pure marxist lunacy.

Those Commie bastards ... <_<


But to give a degree of creedence, I do believe that there is a mental condition called Gender Dysphoria that has always existed. We have pretty conclusively evidence of very effeminate Men, we've got certain cultural practices (Fa-Fa fena? Spelling?) and other bits and pieces that I think it's safe to assume there have always been people who wished they were the opposite sex to what they were born as.

Fa'afafine you mean ... a term unique to the Samoan culture and it refers to biological males who are raised and identify as females.

First you abuse the commie's ... now it's the Samoan's ... I bet you'll go after the French next if your anti nuke as well ... <_<


Would James Barry call herself that? I don't know.

Probably not ... He (She) was English ... not Samoan ... <_<


But if the claim of 'lived a private life as a man' is correct, then that would certainly fit the requirements to be considered self-identifying as Male based on modern criteria.

That's a big IF ... :shifty: ... and "Modern Criteria" seems to need little proof of anything ... <_<



It's a lot more common than you'd think. Married Men who've born children to come out as Transgender.

And I have heard of Transgender (to) male getting made pregnant by Transgender (to) Female. Go figure ... <_<




And people like me sit back and watch them tear each other to pieces.

Not quite afternoon TV ... but if you like watching that sort of thing ... <_<

[pritch]

KB usually has a small number of people who see reds everywhere. Funny 'cause I don't see communists anywhere. Until today. My Twitter account was followed by the Communist Part of India. I have no idea why they liked my account, unless it's the Mahatma Ghandi quote in my profile?

[pritch]

Trump has only about an hour to go if he's to be arrested Tuesday as he predicted. I guess his arrest joins his tax returns and his plan to replace the Affordable Care Act in the list of things for which we have to wait. He shouldn't relax though, (as if) it could happen any time.

[TheDemonLord]

KB usually has a small number of people who see reds everywhere. Funny 'cause I don't see communists anywhere. Until today. My Twitter account was followed by the Communist Part of India. I have no idea why they liked my account, unless it's the Mahatma Ghandi quote in my profile?

I mean, you repeat many of the neo-marxist talking points - perhaps that's why they liked your account.

[TheDemonLord]

Or ... if it's the only convenient argument you can put forward ... <_<

I'm not the only one making this tangential observation.

If He was a He or if She was She - it matters not to me.


Those Commie bastards ... <_<

Well... Yes...


Fa'afafine you mean ... a term unique to the Samoan culture and it refers to biological males who are raised and identify as females.

Yes - that spelling - Now, to be clear - I have no comment to make on Samoan culture - it's not a dig at them. As I understand it (which is extremely limited) it's to do when there are an excess number of Males born and not enough females to take on the expected gender roles.

The point is/was that it's well documented and that it's existed for a while - giving rise to the notion that there is something that is older than the current TransTrend.


First you abuse the commie's ... now it's the Samoan's ... I bet you'll go after the French next if your anti nuke as well ... <_<

There's no abuse towards the Samoans, plenty towards the Commies. I like Nukes, but I'm also British, so there's a wealth to go after the French before we get to the Nuclear issue.


That's a big IF ... :shifty: ... and "Modern Criteria" seems to need little proof of anything ... <_<

It is a big If, I agree - again, deferring to Wikipedia and the fact it was only discovered post-mortem.

As for proof (and not the acceptance of self-identification), how utterly Transphobic of you....

No, seriously "Advocates of self-identification say that medical requirements could force trans people into undergoing surgery, are intrusive and humiliating gatekeeping, and that self-identification would make it easier for transgender people to live day-to-day without prejudice." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_self-identification)


And I have heard of Transgender (to) male getting made pregnant by Transgender (to) Female. Go figure ... <_<

I've heard of that two. Funny how Biological reality always win.


Not quite afternoon TV ... but if you like watching that sort of thing ... <_<

I dunno - seeing the two Feminist branches fight is hilarious. Especially when each side is calling the other Nazis. I saw that Posie Parker is coming to NZ and the usual groups are trying to stop her. Should be interesting.

[Pursang]

Ah yes, professionally printed signs and signage.
Definitely a grass roots, spontaneous protest....Not funded at all...
Definitely not a rent-a-mob crowd.

Their name is on the banner. 'Rise & Resist'

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Rise and Resist is a United States political movement, predominantly based in New York City, formed in response to the 2016 election of Donald Trump. The movement has organized several marches and protests against President Trump and his policies, as well as lent support for similar organizations' protests, such as the 2017 Women's March. In December 2017, the group also participated in protests against Trump's Tax Reform Plan.

MAGA is definitely not 'grass root' either.

[TheDemonLord]

Their name is on the banner. 'Rise & Resist'

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Rise and Resist is a United States political movement, predominantly based in New York City, formed in response to the 2016 election of Donald Trump. The movement has organized several marches and protests against President Trump and his policies, as well as lent support for similar organizations' protests, such as the 2017 Women's March. In December 2017, the group also participated in protests against Trump's Tax Reform Plan.

So, professional activists then - my point exactly.


MAGA is definitely not 'grass root' either.

This is actually interesting - there are elements of it that are definitely grass-roots. The discontent of certain 'globalist' policies (I'm loathe to use the word, but I think it's accurate here) - the call for less regulation and 'to let me live how I see fit', these IMO have a grass roots appeal.

I would also say that in 2016 when Trump was considered a long shot for the nomination, let alone the Presidency, that then you could call MAGA genuinely grass roots.

Now, not so much, but then I've never accused MAGA of being grass roots either.

It is interesting though.

[FJRider]

I'm not the only one making this tangential observation.

I'm just surprised you know so many big words. Well done you ... :shifty:


If He was a He or if She was She - it matters not to me.

So ... Have you lived (or) were parented .. ?? in Samoa as a child ...:shifty:


Well... Yes...

No red flags flying at my place ... :shifty:


Yes - that spelling - Now, to be clear - I have no comment to make on Samoan culture - it's not a dig at them. As I understand it (which is extremely limited) it's to do when there are an excess number of Males born and not enough females to take on the expected gender roles.

You have no comment ...?? :blink: You did comment (and miss spelt it as well). The simple fact is ... in reference to the topic we were commenting on (Transgender remember) ... it (Fa'afafine) refers to biological males who are RAISED AS (and thus identify as) females ... so their gender is not by choice ... So ... They CAN blame their Parents for their "Feelings" ... :shifty:


The point is/was that it's well documented and that it's existed for a while - giving rise to the notion that there is something that is older than the current TransTrend.

The point is ... (Seriously) they CAN blame their parents ... I'm just glad I've not been brought up Jewish ... :shifty:


There's no abuse towards the Samoans, plenty towards the Commies.

Remember to spell it correctly next time then ... <_<


And what have the Commies done to you (apart from trying to run this country) .. ?? <_<


I like Nukes, but I'm also British, so there's a wealth to go after the French before we get to the Nuclear issue.

It is widely thought ... that the Legion of Honour has been awarded to more foreigners ... than French citizens ... :shifty:


It is a big If, I agree - again, deferring to Wikipedia and the fact it was only discovered post-mortem.

Personally ... I think you know I'm right. Just won't/can't admit it ... :shifty:


As for proof (and not the acceptance of self-identification), how utterly Transphobic of you....

You might not have noticed that I actually said "MODERN CRITERIA" requires little proof of Gender Identification to be recognized as one of the two sex genders.

A fact you yourself agreed with ... In your statement that ... "Advocates of Self Identification" (that includes those " Self Identifying" ... and not all might want their "Bits" hacked and slashed with little chance of reversal) ... say that medical requirements could force trans people into undergoing surgery, are intrusive and humiliating gatekeeping, and that self-identification would make it easier for transgender people to live day-to-day without prejudice." ... seems to agree with. Go figure ... :shifty:

It just might be ... they might not want to be another gender ... ALL their life. OR ... just NOT entirely genuine in their claims.


I've heard of that two. Funny how Biological reality always win.

It is a strange world we live in ... :shifty:


I dunno - seeing the two Feminist branches fight is hilarious. Especially when each side is calling the other Nazis. I saw that Posie Parker is coming to NZ and the usual groups are trying to stop her. Should be interesting.

A quick Google of How many genders are there ?? ... And what question pops up ... but ... What are the 72 main genders ... ??? :shifty:

Really ... ??? :shifty:



What's YOURS ... ??? :shifty:

[sugilite]

So, professional activists then - my point exactly.


Who said professional activists are not allowed? Are formed groups not allowed to protest in regards to no one should be above the law, especially presidents. I don't see an issue. Professional backed magas can go out there too and protest if they want.

[pritch]

MAGA is definitely not 'grass root' either.

A lot of MAGA is what is referred to as astro turf. When I first read that it had me puzzled for a bit. It just means artificial grass roots funded by Koch or similar.

[TheDemonLord]

Who said professional activists are not allowed? Are formed groups not allowed to protest in regards to no one should be above the law, especially presidents. I don't see an issue. Professional backed magas can go out there too and protest if they want.

It's not that they aren't allowed, it's more I'm completely dismissing the legitimacy of their protest.

Perhaps a better way to put it would be that Professional Activists should be required to have on their sign the sources of their funding, like other Political advertising.

E.g. "Rise and Resist, Sponsored by Pfizer!"

That would at least be a touch more honest.

[husaberg]

Who said professional activists are not allowed? Are formed groups not allowed to protest in regards to no one should be above the law, especially presidents. I don't see an issue. Professional backed magas can go out there too and protest if they want.

so paid monied up lobby group like the oil lobbies and nra are just peachy, along with neo nazi groups like the aryan nation, proud boys and kkk but protester's are somehow anti anti free speech to right whingers:lol:

[Laava]

https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1637927681734987777?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1637927681734987777%7Ctwgr% 5E4c40cdb6969b106c27339fd492f4abab255a6955%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-41024900563833008964.ampproject.net%2F230315152900 0%2Fframe.html
Bwahaha!

[pete376403]

https://twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1637927681734987777?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1637927681734987777%7Ctwgr% 5E4c40cdb6969b106c27339fd492f4abab255a6955%7Ctwcon %5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-41024900563833008964.ampproject.net%2F230315152900 0%2Fframe.html
Bwahaha!

They didn't show the best one - the cavity search

[Laava]

They are probs still doing it. It could take a while…

[TheDemonLord]

so paid monied up lobby group like the oil lobbies and nra are just peachy, along with neo nazi groups like the aryan nation, proud boys and kkk but protester's are somehow anti anti free speech to right whingers:lol:

Please, if you will, a quote for me where I called for them to be silenced by the Government.

No? Oh Dear.

Lobby groups, for all their ills (and on both sides) are at least honest in their corruption.

[FJRider]

so paid monied up lobby group like the oil lobbies and nra are just peachy, along with neo nazi groups like the aryan nation, proud boys and kkk but protester's are somehow anti anti free speech to right whingers:lol:

Free speech isn't as free as a lot of people believe (or want) ... There are laws (even in NZ) about what you can or can't say.

It's all fine and dandy until somebody gets offended. Then they do the ... "I'm offended by that comment" routine ... and sue them.

Go figure ...

[pritch]

Trump's prediction that he'd be arrested Tuesday turned out to be about as reliable as everything else he says. An arrest could be imminent though, the NYPD have installed fences around the courthouse and are currently installing surveillance cameras around it.

Republican politicians are calling for the Manhattan DA to be called before their kangaroo court. Federal politicians have zero right to interfere in a state court case.
The Justice Department has also long had a policy that politicians should not interfere in ongoing investigations or cases. The politicians could be charged with obstructing justice but probably won't be. The Democrats don't play hardball.

Trump's campaign finance violations are the least serious of all the various charges he currently faces though.

Communications between a lawyer and their client are supposed to be sacrosanct. In US law there is an exception: the crime fraud exception. If the lawyer is considered a participant in the crime privilege will be waived. The judge in the documents case has waived privilege. Further she has handed the lead lawyer's notes to the prosecution referring to events at Mar A Lago as a "criminal enterprise." A number of the previous hearings now have to be held again, this time without the lawyer having the option not to answer - unless he pleads the Fifth.

[R650R]

Trump's prediction that he'd be arrested Tuesday turned out to be about as reliable as everything else he says. An arrest could be imminent though, the NYPD have installed fences around the courthouse and are currently installing surveillance cameras around it.

Republican politicians are calling for the Manhattan DA to be called before their kangaroo court. Federal politicians have zero right to interfere in a state court case.
The Justice Department has also long had a policy that politicians should not interfere in ongoing investigations or cases. The politicians could be charged with obstructing justice but probably won't be. The Democrats don't play hardball.

Trump's campaign finance violations are the least serious of all the various charges he currently faces though.

Communications between a lawyer and their client are supposed to be sacrosanct. In US law there is an exception: the crime fraud exception. If the lawyer is considered a participant in the crime privilege will be waived. The judge in the documents case has waived privilege. Further she has handed the lead lawyer's notes to the prosecution referring to events at Mar A Lago as a "criminal enterprise." A number of the previous hearings now have to be held again, this time without the lawyer having the option not to answer - unless he pleads the Fifth.

Perhaps he decided to cash in on the hopium game to boost his ranking in news, it’s free advertising and prob rallying his supporters. Let the entertainment continue

[pritch]

Perhaps he decided to cash in on the hopium game to boost his ranking in news, it’s free advertising and prob rallying his supporters. Let the entertainment continue

He is currently promoting a 'petition' demanding the case be dropped. Of course the URL for his petition takes you to his donations page.

[mashman]

BREAKING: New Bombshell Document DESTROYS Manhattan DA’s Case Against Trump (https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1638659011028434947)

"2018 Letter from Michael Cohen’s lawyer to the FEC declares Cohen used his own personal funds to pay Stormy Daniels. Trump Camp. NOT party to transaction, did NOT reimburse Cohen for payment. It’s OVER".

Oh dear. Maybe next time.

[pritch]

BREAKING: New Bombshell Document DESTROYS Manhattan DA’s Case Against Trump (https://twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1638659011028434947)

"2018 Letter from Michael Cohen’s lawyer to the FEC declares Cohen used his own personal funds to pay Stormy Daniels. Trump Camp. NOT party to transaction, did NOT reimburse Cohen for payment. It’s OVER".

Oh dear. Maybe next time.



That's no bombshell, we've known that Cohen paid Daniels and Trump reimbursed him since before Cohen went to prison. That letter says neither the Trump Organisation nor his campaign reimbursed Cohen. There are other options such as a personal cheque - or a series of cheques. If you ask Google you'll be shown cheques made out to Cohen and signed by Junior, Weiselberg, or by Trump himself.

Here's another report from 2018. https://news.yahoo.com/news/trump-admits-reimbursed-cohen-stormy-daniels-hush-money-125017365.html


Your source works for News Max. That's a total clown show. You need better sources.

[pritch]

A lawyer in the US is comparing Trump to Jesus and the upcoming trial(s) to the crucifixion. He's right. Nail Trump up, if he comes back after three days I'll admit I might have been mistaken.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/lawyer-compares-trump-to-jesus-christ-ahead-of-expected-indictment/ar-AA18NNzF

[mashman]

That's no bombshell, we've known that Cohen paid Daniels and Trump reimbursed him since before Cohen went to prison. That letter says neither the Trump Organisation nor his campaign reimbursed Cohen. There are other options such as a personal cheque - or a series of cheques. If you ask Google you'll be shown cheques made out to Cohen and signed by Junior, Weiselberg, or by Trump himself.

Here's another report from 2018. https://news.yahoo.com/news/trump-admits-reimbursed-cohen-stormy-daniels-hush-money-125017365.html


Your source works for News Max. That's a total clown show. You need better sources.

You're right, it's not a bombshell. Cheques can be forged. Cohen is a proven liar. I lol'd when I read Mueller involvement. You mentioned something about source authenticity :killingme... I would be exceptionally surprised of Trump doesn't walk again given how low the prosecution have sunk in their pursuit of him. I hope for your TDS he doesn't walk though.

[pritch]

Cheques can be forged.

True but these cheques are all over the place and have been for years. So far you're the only one questioning their authenticity.


Cohen is a proven liar.

Everybody knows that including the judge and the jury. Not everything he says is a lie.



I lol'd when I read Mueller involvement.

Trump should still be losing sleep over the Mueller report. Ten cases of obstruction of justice laid out in detail.



I would be exceptionally surprised of Trump doesn't walk again given how low the prosecution have sunk in their pursuit of him. I hope for your TDS he doesn't walk though.

We'll see. TDS is more projection. It better fits the gullible simpletons who believed Trump's fantasies.

On reflection I preferred it when you were on ignore...

[mashman]

True but these cheques are all over the place and have been for years. So far you're the only one questioning their authenticity.

The only one lol... coz no one has over the years that those cheques have been around.


Everybody knows that including the judge and the jury. Not everything he says is a lie.

Very true.


Trump should still be losing sleep over the Mueller report. Ten cases of obstruction of justice laid out in detail.

Maybe. They're still reaching though or he'd be uber fucked right now. Unlikely to be sweating it much, he's Trump ffs.



We'll see. TDS is more projection. It better fits the gullible simpletons who believed Trump's fantasies

On reflection I preferred it when you were on ignore...

It was more of an attempt at humour, but fair enough, enjoy your silent projection of what you think I mean when I don't mean what you're inferring at all.

[husaberg]

A lawyer in the US is comparing Trump to Jesus and the upcoming trial(s) to the crucifixion. He's right. Nail Trump up, if he comes back after three days I'll admit I might have been mistaken.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/lawyer-compares-trump-to-jesus-christ-ahead-of-expected-indictment/ar-AA18NNzF

Trump might actually be richer then Jesus, i would suggest Jesus might have a more loyal and much larger and longer lasting following though.

[Laava]

A lawyer in the US is comparing Trump to Jesus and the upcoming trial(s) to the crucifixion. He's right. Nail Trump up, if he comes back after three days I'll admit I might have been mistaken.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/lawyer-compares-trump-to-jesus-christ-ahead-of-expected-indictment/ar-AA18NNzF
Nail him up! I'm all for that but it would be like nailing silly putty.

[pritch]

In case anyone is wondering this chart shows Trump's current court actions. It does seem rather a lot for a guy who made perfect phone calls and has done nothing wrong.

It does show some interesting things. I didn't know the FBI's most successful spy catcher was suing Trump. Nor that the DoJ had multiple actions.

[mashman]

Trump To Be Indicted For Removing Mattress Tag In 1997 (https://babylonbee.com/news/manhattan-da-to-indict-trump-for-removing-mattress-tag-in-1997)

[sugilite]

An absolutely necessary move from the judge in this case.
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/23/politics/carroll-trump-jury/index.html