Stupid World [Archive] - Page 14

Brian d marge

28th September 2014, 05:07

One must grow

Mr wild-e-beast wet dream

The deregulation bill currently before westminster ,

Yes as was said . HIDDEN in the bill was Clause 83

Snip
Exercise of regulatory functions: economic growth
(1) A person exercising a regulatory function to which this section applies must,
in the exercise of the function, have
regard to the desirability of promoting
economic growth.
(2) In performing the duty under subsection (1), the person must, in particular,
consider the importance for the promotion of economic growth of exercising
the regulatory function in
a way which ensures that—
(a) regulatory action is taken only when it is needed, and
(b) any action taken is proportionate

They even repealed the pit pony regulation of 1956

Coal and Other Mines (Horses) Order (S.I. 1956/1777)
38 The Coal and Other Mines (Horses) Order 1956 is revoked

Damn them........

Damn scottish people

If an offence under this Act is committed by
a Scottish partnership
and is proved to have been committed with the consent or
connivance of, or to be attributable to any neglect on the part of—

As for profit sharing ......forgive me sir for I have sinned

Mining Industry Act 1926 (c. 28)
6 (1) In the Mining Industry Act 1926, om
it section 20 (which confers power on
coal-mining companies to establish profit sharing schemes irrespective of
the terms of their articles of association).

All of this shit was hidden in the deregulation bill ....

NO ONE will find it ....hahahahahahahahaaaa

TV

Stephen

yokel

28th September 2014, 07:20

money..................................

moneys not the problem silly , it's our own humanity

oldrider

28th September 2014, 08:43

moneys not the problem silly , it's our own humanity

Not so much "money in its self" but the way that the money "system" is controlled and manipulated for ill gotten power and control!

Corruption is the problem!

Agreed, the manipulation of the monetary system is a result of the flaws in our own humanity! ... True!

Easy to change and correct all that is missing is the political will to do it! :brick:

mashman

28th September 2014, 11:19

moneys not the problem silly , it's our own humanity

Money drives the behaviour that gives us the society that we have. The financial economy constrains innovation and enables resource wastage at a frightening rate coz consumerism. Remove the money and our behaviour will change. Our humanity will be given a chance to flourish.

Not so much "money in its self" but the way that the money "system" is controlled and manipulated for ill gotten power and control!

Corruption is the problem!

Agreed, the manipulation of the monetary system is a result of the flaws in our own humanity! ... True!

Easy to change and correct all that is missing is the political will to do it! :brick:

It is the money :bleh:. Wherever there is money there will be influence and people who are willing to be influenced. You can print it with zero interest, but it will exist and it will be up for grabs.

Corruption is financially driven behaviour. There is no other reward.

Addiction... which manifests itself as corruption :shifty:

What's missing is a goal.

yokel

28th September 2014, 11:24

Money drives the behaviour that gives us the society that we have. The financial economy constrains innovation and enables resource wastage at a frightening rate coz consumerism. Remove the money and our behaviour will change. Our humanity will be given a chance to flourish.

It is the money :bleh:. Wherever there is money there will be influence and people who are willing to be influenced. You can print it with zero interest, but it will exist and it will be up for grabs.

Corruption is financially driven behaviour. There is no other reward.

Addiction... which manifests itself as corruption :shifty:

What's missing is a goal.

yes removing money would change our behaviour, but I would not use the word "flourish" well at the start anyways, from there who knows?

mashman

28th September 2014, 11:28

yes removing money would change our behaviour, but I would not use the word "flourish" well at the start anyways, from there who knows?

I completely agree with you. The timespan to flourish is relative, as you allude to, but on day 1 there's no poverty. So that'll be fed kids in schools and less stress in households off the bat. I'd call that flourishing... I'm easy to please ;)

yokel

28th September 2014, 12:44

I completely agree with you. The timespan to flourish is relative, as you allude to, but on day 1 there's no poverty. So that'll be fed kids in schools and less stress in households off the bat. I'd call that flourishing... I'm easy to please ;)

Yeah we kind of on same wave, sort of.
School are run and maintained by the money system, what makes you think they will remain or in what form when the money is gone?
Anyways it's the parents responsibility to feed their kids.
My bro in law was brought up in "child poverty" and it was not from a lack of money.

mashman

28th September 2014, 13:03

Yeah we kind of on same wave, sort of.
School are run and maintained by the money system, what makes you think they will remain or in what form when the money is gone?
Anyways it's the parents responsibility to feed their kids.
My bro in law was brought up in "child poverty" and it was not from a lack of money.

Aye, schools, the schooling system, the age at which a child goes to/finishes school, uni etc... all how we wish it to be run and not suffocated by budget constraint. If, for arguments sake, there is no financial system, that also means that there are going to be one hell of a lot of unemployed people. Wonder how many would train to become teachers? so that the classrooms could have more resources.
It is the parents responsibility, but as you mention, that responsibility isn't always fulfilled for one reason or another. I'd like to see breakfast served at schools. Then at least you KNOW that they'd be fed.
Aye, it ain't always money, hence feeding them at school (should they require it) as a catch all. That the primary caregiver fails in their duty should not be allowed to be an acceptable reason for their to be starving children.

Brian d marge

28th September 2014, 13:05

Bollx its all in the frenology

mashman

28th September 2014, 13:11

Max at his brutally honest best (http://rt.com/shows/keiser-report/190880-episode-max-keiser-659/).

They had a guy on from that positivemoney crowd oldrider keeps bangin on about. He didn't say much mind :shifty:

EDITY: And an interesting take on

The deregulation bill currently before westminster ,

Yes as was said . HIDDEN in the bill was Clause 83

Snip
Exercise of regulatory functions: economic growth
(1) A person exercising a regulatory function to which this section applies must,
in the exercise of the function, have
regard to the desirability of promoting
economic growth.
(2) In performing the duty under subsection (1), the person must, in particular,
consider the importance for the promotion of economic growth of exercising
the regulatory function in
a way which ensures that—
(a) regulatory action is taken only when it is needed, and
(b) any action taken is proportionate

They even repealed the pit pony regulation of 1956

Coal and Other Mines (Horses) Order (S.I. 1956/1777)
38 The Coal and Other Mines (Horses) Order 1956 is revoked

yokel

28th September 2014, 13:34

Aye, schools, the schooling system, the age at which a child goes to/finishes school, uni etc... all how we wish it to be run and not suffocated by budget constraint. If, for arguments sake, there is no financial system, that also means that there are going to be one hell of a lot of unemployed people. Wonder how many would train to become teachers? so that the classrooms could have more resources.
It is the parents responsibility, but as you mention, that responsibility isn't always fulfilled for one reason or another. I'd like to see breakfast served at schools. Then at least you KNOW that they'd be fed.
Aye, it ain't always money, hence feeding them at school (should they require it) as a catch all. That the primary caregiver fails in their duty should not be allowed to be an acceptable reason for their to be starving children.

Do kids only eat when they're at school?Removing the parents responsibility will not help one bit.
If you send your kids to school with no food that is child neglect, if you can't? sort your shit out.

As for a no money system?
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it

Brian d marge

28th September 2014, 13:37

when the homeland thuggees get threaten ....it becomes homeland terror....and must be wiped out

http://www.copblock.org/

Stephen

the traffic will be routed to NSA

Brian d marge

28th September 2014, 13:51

mashman

28th September 2014, 21:36

Do kids only eat when they're at school?Removing the parents responsibility will not help one bit.
If you send your kids to school with no food that is child neglect, if you can't? sort your shit out.

As for a no money system?
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it

I thought that would come up. Why, all of a sudden, would people stop feeding their own kids? I'd still feed mine as it's time with them. No doubt there will be some that won't give a shit, so the catch all is in place for whatever reason, but it serves a single function: if a kid is hungry, it should be fed irrespective of parental ability. The reason is the kid, the rest is excuse not to feed the kid.
I agree, it is child neglect. WE need to worry about looking after the kid before the parent is dealt with.

That's one wish I hope will come true. The change in people will be radical and it will be swift. They are all human after all.

mashman

28th September 2014, 21:39

if they hide shit like that in obscure legislation , in England . They sure as hell do it here ....Burnt them and all their evil offspring !

Even the good guys can turn............

http://fat-pie.com/burntfaceman/7.htm

Stephen

It's for our own good.

Brian d marge

28th September 2014, 22:10

It's for our own good.

Alf .........

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/nLOpfJWFWz0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stephen

yokel

28th September 2014, 23:10

I thought that would come up. Why, all of a sudden, would people stop feeding their own kids? I'd still feed mine as it's time with them. No doubt there will be some that won't give a shit, so the catch all is in place for whatever reason, but it serves a single function: if a kid is hungry, it should be fed irrespective of parental ability. The reason is the kid, the rest is excuse not to feed the kid.
I agree, it is child neglect. WE need to worry about looking after the kid before the parent is dealt with.

That's one wish I hope will come true. The change in people will be radical and it will be swift. They are all human after all.

with out a doubt no child should go hungry,but dont let the emotional aspect of that mess with what is the right thing to do.
"if a kid is hungry, it should be fed irrespective of parental ability" that's fine as long as the said parents are punished for not for fulling their obligations as parents other wise you will just expand the problem.
why do we have a useless antismaking law that no one wanted yet it's ok to send kids to school with no food? this is the result of some nasty social engineering at work just to generate more taxation.
add to that social welfare which is a killer of human motivation and lots of other tricks that keeps money moving.
"they" dont want people to be responsible adults.

people are well conditioned to be consumers and spend all they have on shiny shit, I know plenty of people that make good money but still live pay check to pay check,

"Why, all of a sudden, would people stop feeding their own kids?" < this is your own brainwashing at work , it's being happening for a while. but now it's "all of a sudden" all over the media

no need to hope your wish will come true, the change will be swift, radical and painful.

Fuck a talk some shit haha

SPman

28th September 2014, 23:36

Russia Discovers Massive Arctic Oil Field Which May Be Larger Than Gulf Of Mexico

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-27/russia-discovers-massive-arctic-oil-field-which-may-be-larger-gulf-mexico

Ha Ha!

Brian d marge

28th September 2014, 23:46

all hail Brother Nate

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3JaTjSKjJe0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stephen

mashman

29th September 2014, 09:12

with out a doubt no child should go hungry,but dont let the emotional aspect of that mess with what is the right thing to do.
"if a kid is hungry, it should be fed irrespective of parental ability" that's fine as long as the said parents are punished for not for fulling their obligations as parents other wise you will just expand the problem.
why do we have a useless antismaking law that no one wanted yet it's ok to send kids to school with no food? this is the result of some nasty social engineering at work just to generate more taxation.
add to that social welfare which is a killer of human motivation and lots of other tricks that keeps money moving.
"they" dont want people to be responsible adults.

people are well conditioned to be consumers and spend all they have on shiny shit, I know plenty of people that make good money but still live pay check to pay check,

"Why, all of a sudden, would people stop feeding their own kids?" < this is your own brainwashing at work , it's being happening for a while. but now it's "all of a sudden" all over the media

no need to hope your wish will come true, the change will be swift, radical and painful.

Fuck a talk some shit haha

The right thing to do is to feed the kid. The right thing to do is an emotional decision, it always will be as every single second of our lives and every single issue that crosses our path is subjective.
Punished? You meant helped, if help is needed right? I reckon punishment, if they're that bad of a parent, could well do more damage than good.
Thing is, that taxation is required in order to get the kid fed and we rely on law/regulation/legislation/lies/statistics etc... to arrest such behaviour (which is impossible). By default, the only social engineering that is required required is to have us reliant on money. I'm sure there are a feckload of things that are receiving money that shouldn't be, but there's only so much $ to go round and to a certain degree I pity the politicians who have to work within such parameters.
Social welfare is not a killer of human motivation in the slightest. It's an excuse for some to become lazy, but the great unwashed still rise up off their arses and find, geanted not always legal, ways of topping that up. The motivation excuse is pathetic propaganda. Why not lead with, sorry, we don't have enough well paying jobs for all of you (55% of the country apparantly). THAT is the reason a lot of people aren't in work. There is no other truth and it certainly isn't a dependency of social welfare as they don't all sit on their arses doing nothing. That's a myth!
They already are responsible adults... but adults make choices that goes against the law and unfortunately that means that joe public declares that they have the right to stick the boot in and decide that people aren't being responsible. For me, if a guy on welfare (thick as pigshit, not a people person, socially stunted etc...) is out thieving so that his family can eat a little better (or can afford a bag of weed), as much as I wouldn't condone that behaviour, I'd rather they Robin Hooded it than the family struggled (that looking after the kid thing). These adults are responsible, but they break they make bad decisions under shit circumstances. The rest is bullshit propaganda used to browbeat a majority into believing that the unemployed are somehow lower class citizens that are dragging the economy down and therefore you are just to treat them as you wish. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't believe the hype.

lol, aye it's a bastard that things get more expensive and the cheque at the end of the week doesn't go as far as it used to. Sure it's their own fault at times, but the only reason that times are good is because people are spending.

I know it has been happening since forever. It needs to change. There's no brainwashing there, it's just me accepting the facts and wanting to see something tangible done about it. Something no govt has been able to achieve because of financial constraint.

I choose an R.B.E. because the drawn out painful version of tribalistic warfare can be avoided. Our wars are for financial. As are our societal failures.

Basically a Resource Based Economy is a holistic approach to the issues that we face as human beings. In regards to punishment, I agree with you that parents are shite and need "help" in order to recognise their responsibilities. However given the current financial environment society really doesn't make it easy for a lot of individuals, whereas if most things are easy (access to unlimited and 1st grade education/healthcare/free electricity etc...) then these "bad" parents will have nowhere to hide from a judgemental society, absolutely nowhere. If they do not respond then yeah, at that point in time and given the fact that they will have had every form of "help" available, then I'd consider incarceration. So I'm not against it, but I am against punishing people for failing to deal with a set of circumstances that I have judged myself capable of being able to deal with. That's unfair. Kindness works better than derision and punishment.

I see your shit and raise you heaps more shit :laugh:

Brian d marge

30th September 2014, 00:57

Im not sayin nothin......

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/61555533/ultraorthodox-jews-cause-chaos-on-flight.html

Stephen

mashman

30th September 2014, 07:05

Im not sayin nothin......

http://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/61555533/ultraorthodox-jews-cause-chaos-on-flight.html

Stephen

:rofl:@"they asked people to swap and offered cash to those who refused"

Brian d marge

1st October 2014, 01:43

Alf on the three day week.......

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ilkXjy5Y54g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mashman

1st October 2014, 08:40

Residents of the Wadi Fukin village received eviction notices as Israel plans on further seizing 400 hectares of land. (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/inpictures/2014/09/pictures-seized-land-palestine-201492510254310193.html)

Seize? You mean thieve.

george formby

1st October 2014, 08:57

Seize? You mean thieve.

That is appalling reading.

Akzle

1st October 2014, 11:49

seizure is a legislated form of theft.
('to forcibly take possession of')...
jews stealing, shock horror.

mashman

1st October 2014, 12:01

Tens of thousands sleep out: Massive protest lights up Hong Kong skyline (http://www.rt.com/news/191980-hong-kong-protest-occupycentral-thousands/)... Occupy Chinese stylez. The Kung Fu fighting should be cool though.

British hostage in new ISIS propaganda video panning Obama strategy (http://www.rt.com/uk/191776-john-cantlie-isis-third/)... ya reckon that the journalist might actually agree with what he's saying?

mashman

1st October 2014, 12:44

More question marks over the Scottish Independence vote.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ewcSKlWFcs

mashman

2nd October 2014, 16:29

Don't cry for me (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/25150327/argentina-defies-u-s-court-order-by-depositing-debt-payment/#)...

So, when are we signing the TPPA?

Brian d marge

2nd October 2014, 18:39

Don't cry for me (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/25150327/argentina-defies-u-s-court-order-by-depositing-debt-payment/#)...

So, when are we signing the TPPA?
Argentina . . . .the new iceland

Hows the dollar flight mr obama . . .how about u get assad to help u clean up isis then the argentinians then assad can have accidentally cut himself shaving and perish from the 6 bullets wounds

Then the house of saud can concentrate of removing the newclear threat from iran

U dumbass

Stephen

Btw mr obama say hi to ya new partner micheal . . . I to have given my wife a mans name . . . .bob

Brian d marge

3rd October 2014, 05:14

http://thinkprogress.org/education/2014/10/01/3574551/germany-free-college-tuition/

idiots ...how will they cook the books , with out these assets

Stephen

Akzle

3rd October 2014, 14:32

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/homeless-beer-tobacco-clean-german-city-streets-article-1.1958984

also this, probly more relevant to the thread.

http://rt.com/uk/191932-drugs-sex-uk-gdp/

mashman

3rd October 2014, 20:41

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/homeless-beer-tobacco-clean-german-city-streets-article-1.1958984

Double edged sword eh. Great idea if the goal is to offer a "better" set of circumstances to facilitate "rehabilitation". Bummer if it is merely a political fitba.

also this, probly more relevant to the thread.

http://rt.com/uk/191932-drugs-sex-uk-gdp/

I'd love to know what this means: "Calculating the figures became a priority for the British government as the nation moved to integrate its public accounts with a new European Union model from September 2014 onwards."... wtf?

Brian d marge

3rd October 2014, 20:49

Double edged sword eh. Great idea if the goal is to offer a "better" set of circumstances to facilitate "rehabilitation". Bummer if it is merely a political fitba.

I'd love to know what this means: "Calculating the figures became a priority for the British government as the nation moved to integrate its public accounts with a new European Union model from September 2014 onwards."... wtf?
It means the books look better

Those homeless and now happier street cleaners now have jobs reducing german unemployment figures

Ocean1

3rd October 2014, 21:04

Double edged sword eh. Great idea if the goal is to offer a "better" set of circumstances to facilitate "rehabilitation". Bummer if it is merely a political fitba.

No need for your tinfoil hat there, it's plain English: some people are only worth $1:50 / hr.

On a really really good day.

With a tailwind.

Downhill.

With a good push.

mashman

3rd October 2014, 21:06

It means the books look better

Those homeless and now happier street cleaners now have jobs reducing german unemployment figures

Unfortunately you're likely spot on. Wonder how many of them will be minors?

Brian d marge

3rd October 2014, 21:07

Unfortunately you're likely spot on. Wonder how many of them will be minors?
The welsh dont have an economy

mashman

3rd October 2014, 21:08

No need for your tinfoil hat there, it's plain English: some people are only worth $1:50 / hr.

On a really really good day.

With a tailwind.

Downhill.

With a good push.

All people are priceless... especially you.

All of the time

In a fair wind.

In which every direction they choose.

When they make their own minds up..

mashman

3rd October 2014, 21:11

The welsh dont have an economy

lol, they'll tie you to a stuffed sheep for all of eternity listening to Tom Jones records if they catch you saying things like that.

Ocean1

3rd October 2014, 21:17

‘I really don’t see how a stock market crash can now be more than six weeks away.

I'm on a lovely wee island off Japan with no more bandwidth than Moses had, how we looking here dude?

Ocean1

3rd October 2014, 21:22

All people are priceless... especially you.

Well your remuneration's in the right neighbourhood, but I'm afraid your offer falls under my blanket "no working for idiots" policy.

Sorry.

mashman

3rd October 2014, 21:27

Well your remuneration's in the right neighbourhood, but I'm afraid your offer falls under my blanket "no working for idiots" policy.

Sorry.

You'd be working for yourself. Still not getting it eh. But ta muchly for the ironing.

Brian d marge

3rd October 2014, 21:29

I'm on a lovely wee island off Japan with no more bandwidth than Moses had, how we looking here dude?
Which island and hows the weather

Ocean1

3rd October 2014, 23:38

You'd be working for yourself. Still not getting it eh. But ta muchly for the ironing.

I already work for myself.

Which means I get exactly what my clients reckon I'm worth.

And it just don't get fairer than that.

Ocean1

3rd October 2014, 23:40

Which island and hows the weather

Miyajima.

Perfect weather for now, typhoon coming apparently but I'll be gone by then.

Brian d marge

4th October 2014, 00:02

Miyajima.

Perfect weather for now, typhoon coming apparently but I'll be gone by then.
Near osaka?
There is a beer festival in tokyo if ya are interested , .im going sunday

Ocean1

4th October 2014, 00:23

Near osaka?
There is a beer festival in tokyo if ya are interested , .im going sunday

Off Hiroshima. http://visit-miyajima-japan.com/en/

And thanks, I have some old friend amongst the local beers, but I'm stuck to someone else's schedule.

Brian d marge

4th October 2014, 00:37

Off Hiroshima. http://visit-miyajima-japan.com/en/

And thanks, I have some old friend amongst the local beers, but I'm stuck to someone else's schedule.

Nice place , but like going to Hamilton ..with great food ..

next time ya come Ill buy the beer

Stephen

mashman

4th October 2014, 09:41

I already work for myself.

Which means I get exactly what my clients reckon I'm worth.

And it just don't get fairer than that.

So nothing will change for you. Not sure why you believe that they would. I guess YOU're just upset that others will have access to resources that YOU have decided they are unworthy of receiving.

Fair enough.

Oh by eck it does and will old chap.

Ocean1

4th October 2014, 10:35

So nothing will change for you. Not sure why you believe that they would. I guess YOU're just upset that others will have access to resources that YOU have decided they are unworthy of receiving.

I only decide how much of MY money others are worthy of receiving, same as everyone else. Unlike your vacuous communist system where someone else decides that for me.

All been done before, all failed miserably. If you like the idea so much there's absolutely nothing stopping you from paying whatever you can agree with any seller will work. In the meantime when it comes to other people's money: mind your own fucking business.

Akzle

4th October 2014, 13:00

when it comes to other people's money: mind your own fucking business.

but.... you dont own any money...

mashman

4th October 2014, 16:42

I only decide how much of MY money others are worthy of receiving, same as everyone else. Unlike your vacuous communist system where someone else decides that for me.

All been done before, all failed miserably. If you like the idea so much there's absolutely nothing stopping you from paying whatever you can agree with any seller will work. In the meantime when it comes to other people's money: mind your own fucking business.

You must have been drinking. Who is going to be making decisions for you in regards to that which you "produce"?

No it hasn't been done before. Certainly not with the tech and associated advancements that we live with. Wasn't telling you what to do with your cash either. Having said that, you are using my resources so I should have a say in that which you "produce", ya know, just in case it's useless.

Brian d marge

4th October 2014, 16:52

Dont get me started on the price of beer in this country

oldrider

4th October 2014, 20:58

Dont get me started on the price of beer in this country

Solved that problem ... just stopped drinking it! :blip:

Brian d marge

5th October 2014, 00:11

Solved that problem ... just stopped drinking it! :blip:

Im not into Enemas ...just yet

avgas

5th October 2014, 05:45

So 10 years ago, life was good, and we thought it was worse than 10 years prior.
So 10 years from now we are really fucked.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11337072

yokel

5th October 2014, 08:51

when the change comes will the Ipad/phone zombies survive?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UqtrhhbzNRc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mashman

5th October 2014, 14:53

when the change comes will the Ipad/phone zombies survive?

Amen Mr Perkins.

Brian d marge

5th October 2014, 15:02

Im thinking the best way to get rid of the idiots is non compliance . .
By all means live in society pay ya rates etc taxes
But come off and away from the utilities and shackles that bind
Solar panel usage is pissing the power companies off in america due to the increased usage and the fact they have to pay for the electricity generated . . Expand on this further could this be appiled to other area . .water sewerage food gasoline health

Ive a small solar system and my hydroponics has been a success and seeing the effect of non compliance overseas , and in the past

Reckon its time for another bout

Just a thought

oldrider

5th October 2014, 16:06

Solar panel usage is pissing the power companies off in america due to the increased usage and the fact they have to pay for the electricity generated . . Expand on this further could this be appiled to other area . .water sewerage food gasoline health

Probably ... Yes!

You can do anything these days (specially since deregulation in NZ) but you have to figure in the payback over time or you lose money!

Another thing installers often overlook is the maintenance and reliability when you have to do it yourself it can be an unforseen bind.

The closer you are to a utility company supply the less attractive the return usually! :mellow:

Brian d marge

5th October 2014, 16:50

Probably ... Yes!

You can do anything these days (specially since deregulation in NZ) but you have to figure in the payback over time or you lose money!

Another thing installers often overlook is the maintenance and reliability when you have to do it yourself it can be an unforseen bind.

The closer you are to a utility company supply the less attractive the return usually! :mellow:
My wee system was easy to install it was desgned for a solar farm
Cheap as to
Its not designed to go on the roof

But the point and just my thought is

If you do not need to rely on shackles such as gosoline or electricity

And maintain a reasonable lifestyle . . . I dont watch tv and make own beer etc . . . The internet i would have to pay for. . .

How much of a hold on ya would the man have

Would there be any point to it as new zealand is still pretty good if ya have the basics covered . . .house food etc

And if people helped others to remove the shackles as per above . . How much effect would that have on the men in the ministry.

Just a thought

jonbuoy

6th October 2014, 18:18

My wee system was easy to install it was desgned for a solar farm
Cheap as to
Its not designed to go on the roof

But the point and just my thought is

If you do not need to rely on shackles such as gosoline or electricity

And maintain a reasonable lifestyle . . . I dont watch tv and make own beer etc . . . The internet i would have to pay for. . .

How much of a hold on ya would the man have

Would there be any point to it as new zealand is still pretty good if ya have the basics covered . . .house food etc

And if people helped others to remove the shackles as per above . . How much effect would that have on the men in the ministry.

Just a thought

That´s great but you can´t make your own MRI scanner, Xray machine or cutting edge medicines and unless you want to ride on cart tracks and defend your wife kids and property from mobs of gangs with a shotgun 24 hours a day you still need a government and taxes for the day to day "running expenses" of a civilised society.

The only reason self sufficient is attractive is because you can feel like your sticking it to the "man" whilst living in a nice clean and safe society and know that if you turn up at the local A&E with your arm hanging off a nice Doctor will stitch it back on for you and he won´t even ask for a sack of potatoes in return.

If you had the option of never paying taxes/energy bills and being completely self sufficient - would you be prepared to give up the use of:

Police
Fire
Healthcare
All benefits
Schooling

Brian d marge

6th October 2014, 18:38

How do you know that. We havent been able to try it
Linux ( open source ) seems to be working
I do however know that societys tend to breakdown at around the 200 persons mark and it may be for this reason alone that the idea wont work.

I think ( not sure) you can see this phenomenon in action with yahoo groups , kinda communities in miniture

Stephen

Akzle

6th October 2014, 19:32

If you had the option of never paying taxes/energy bills and being completely self sufficient - would you be prepared to give up the use of:

Police
Fire
Healthcare
All benefits
Schooling
(you have an artificially limited comprehension of life, but thats another story)

yes! I would.
What box do i tick? Where is the option to opt out?

And the firefighters round here are VOLUNTEERS so your precious govt doesnt pay a pretty penny to help those who need it.

Brian d marge

6th October 2014, 19:35

The only sticking point i see is health care
Wonder if it could go open source ????

bogan

6th October 2014, 19:46

The only sticking point i see is health care
Wonder if it could go open source ????

Not quite sure you understand the concept of open source :scratch:

Serf around webmd for a while and you might understand why we need professionals for that.

(you have an artificially limited comprehension of life, but thats another story)

yes! I would.
What box do i tick? Where is the option to opt out?

And the firefighters round here are VOLUNTEERS so your precious govt doesnt pay a pretty penny to help those who need it.

You know that would go both ways right, you'd stop being able to sponge off the benefit. Since you don't pay taxes, one wonders why you can't just do it anyway, why do you need to tick a box, just stop picking up your benefit checks and instead go self sufficient.

Brian d marge

6th October 2014, 19:55

Not quite sure you understand the concept of open source :scratch:

Serf around webmd for a while and you might understand why we need professionals for that.

You know that would go both ways right, you'd stop being able to sponge off the benefit. Since you don't pay taxes, one wonders why you can't just do it anyway, why do you need to tick a box, just stop picking up your benefit checks and instead go self sufficient.
Sorry i do know

You still need dumbarses to use the product and provide feedback

If i designed motorbikes as i would like without customer feed back you lot would still be on royal enfield singles

oldrider

6th October 2014, 19:57

Akzle

6th October 2014, 19:59

You know that would go both ways right, you'd stop being able to sponge off the benefit. Since you don't pay taxes, one wonders why you can't just do it anyway, why do you need to tick a box, just stop picking up your benefit checks and instead go self sufficient.

theres a venn diagram... Things you know, and things you dont.
Or maybe a yohari window type arrangement.

So, when dealing in jewgold, how do i explain that im tax exempt? When the council come for landrates? Police, that im exempt from legislation?
How do i go about having a sovereign claim to live free from your society's interference?

Brian d marge

6th October 2014, 19:59

I notice that there are getting to be more and more people around here (across the provinces) installing their own solar systems!

Most appear to be doing it "because they can" so it is also a hobby type of interest ... I.E. "Fun"! ... My opinion, if you can go for it! :niceone:
True one forgets the fun factor of it all

bogan

6th October 2014, 20:00

Sorry i do know

You still need u dumbarses to use the product and provide feedback

If i designed motorbikes as i would like without customer feed back you lot would still be on royal enfield singles

In some cases feedback is all that is required, but to what I refered to was the expertise required to provide the service. Open source works for software and the like because it is a product easily copied. An expert service can't simply be copied because you still need an expert (trained) to do the servicing; sure some of the drugs could go open source but how would I know which one is right for me?

As the cost of copying goes up, the efficacy of open source goes down, that is the point you seemingly missed.

jonbuoy

6th October 2014, 20:02

(you have an artificially limited comprehension of life, but thats another story)

yes! I would.
What box do i tick? Where is the option to opt out?

And the firefighters round here are VOLUNTEERS so your precious govt doesnt pay a pretty penny to help those who need it.

Who pays for the firetrucks, equipment, maintenance, fuel and repairs? So your happy to just let nature take its course on your body - when you get a cavity you just put up with it till it rots out or just yank it with a pair of pliers (that you made yourself).

bogan

6th October 2014, 20:03

So, when dealing in jewgold, how do i explain that im tax exempt? When the council come for landrates? Police, that im exempt from legislation?
How do i go about having a sovereign claim to live free from your society's interference?

So just use your benefit for those things and those things only. There is no box to tick, no bold statement to make; just be the change you wish to see, the only barrier to that is within you. Perhaps start by unplugging yourself from the computer network my taxes paid for.

Akzle

6th October 2014, 20:14

Who pays for the firetrucks, equipment, maintenance, fuel and repairs? So your happy to just let nature take its course on your body - when you get a cavity you just put up with it till it rots out or just yank it with a pair of pliers (that you made yourself).
this is that artificial limit i told you about.
And yes, i live with cavities and a gammy knee and back problems, a degenerative ocular condition, which im sure acc would pay for.

So just use your benefit for those things and those things only. There is no box to tick, no bold statement to make; just be the change you wish to see, the only barrier to that is within you. Perhaps start by unplugging yourself from the computer network my taxes paid for.
1) so you have no answers then?
1b)i am.
1c) last i checked, the benny doesnt actually cover it.
2) im quite sure the govt didnt pay for 2 degrees' towers.

jonbuoy

6th October 2014, 20:20

this is that artificial limit i told you about.
And yes, i live with cavities and a gammy knee and back problems, a degenerative ocular condition, which im sure acc would pay for.

1) so you have no answers then?
1b)i am.
1c) last i checked, the benny doesnt actually cover it.
2) im quite sure the govt didnt pay for 2 degrees' towers.

What "artificial limit" are you talking about? It's called reality.

bogan

6th October 2014, 20:22

1) so you have no answers then?
1b)i am.
1c) last i checked, the benny doesnt actually cover it.
2) im quite sure the govt didnt pay for 2 degrees' towers.

Bullshit your bene doesn't cover those costs (outline your yearly rates etc and yearly bene income if you want me to teach you how to math), and it is through that the govt paid for your share (share is an important word here, you won't just be opting out of govt, but society as well, so you would also lose all that we as a society pay our share towards) of the 2deg towers, just as the govt directly paid for a huge chunk of the rest of the infrastructure connecting us, you want to opt out, try the logout box. You want to continue showing yourself to be an impotent fool, carry on posting...

Akzle

6th October 2014, 20:31

What "artificial limit" are you talking about? It's called reality.

the idea that money is worth anything. That the sun will implode, that society as you know it has to stop if you stop using it..

Akzle

6th October 2014, 20:38

Bullshit your bene doesn't cover those costs (outline your yearly rates etc and yearly bene income if you want me to teach you how to math), and it is through that the govt paid for your share (share is an important word here, you won't just be opting out of govt, but society as well, so you would also lose all that we as a society pay our share towards) of the 2deg towers, just as the govt directly paid for a huge chunk of the rest of the infrastructure connecting us, you want to opt out, try the logout box. You want to continue showing yourself to be an impotent fool, carry on posting...

oh bogan. Wouldnt it be so easy if i was bound by your definitions.
'my bene'? Do i own a bene?
Youre not doing too well answering questions... Easier to push your own ideas, eh.

Where is the obligation-free opt-out bene paid, anyway?

bogan

6th October 2014, 20:47

oh bogan. Wouldnt it be so easy if i was bound by your definitions.
'my bene'? Do i own a bene?
Youre not doing too well answering questions... Easier to push your own ideas, eh.

Where is the obligation-free opt-out bene paid, anyway?

No I'm just being reasonable, you want to opt out, I'm giving you a method to do so but you keep putting up road blocks.

I'll make it real simple, you have to pay rates (expenses) etc to the govt, the govt currently pays you a benefit (income). In an truly opted out situation both of those values would be zero; so lets get you to approximate to that and make the sum zero; in which case you will have effectively opted out (after logging out and not using the shared services either of course).
What is the problem? why do you need to put up all these road blocks like who owns the bene (it doesn't matter), where an opt out-able bene is paid (again it doesn't matter, just donate excess to charity). See how easy it is to find answers and ideas if you want to be the change you keep going on about. Just step up and do it, the only impediment is you.

Brian d marge

6th October 2014, 22:52

In some cases feedback is all that is required, but to what I refered to was the expertise required to provide the service. Open source works for software and the like because it is a product easily copied. An expert service can't simply be copied because you still need an expert (trained) to do the servicing; sure some of the drugs could go open source but how would I know which one is right for me?

As the cost of copying goes up, the efficacy of open source goes down, that is the point you seemingly missed.

Fathers have been training sons for years ....happens all the time over here ,,,,

Have a look a Calculix , a FEA software system that has open source software AND community , OpenFOAM , same thing , Highly complex systems that are ...free and community supported ...and relevent in todays world .....

anyway
nothing changes , you still have experts but the PAYMENT or compensation for those skills changes ,,Here the system falls down ( because as the society grows , the rise of a me, me culture rises to and the community is to large to self correct ....) ....so the free giving of output becomes a burden or unfair ....so we go back to the bag of spuds , unworkable ...or money ...exploitable

At some point , one may have to join the system ...for the MRI scan, or the drugs to cure me gout.

but in the meantime I can show the "man" my displeasure of his corrupt ways , by not using them ...

Stephen

Akzle

7th October 2014, 05:28

No I'm just being reasonable, you want to opt out, I'm giving you a method to do so but you keep putting up road blocks.

I'll make it real simple, you have to pay rates (expenses) etc to the govt, the govt currently pays you a benefit (income). In an truly opted out situation both of those values would be zero; so lets get you to approximate to that and make the sum zero; in which case you will have effectively opted out (after logging out and not using the shared services either of course).
What is the problem? why do you need to put up all these road blocks like who owns the bene (it doesn't matter), where an opt out-able bene is paid (again it doesn't matter, just donate excess to charity). See how easy it is to find answers and ideas if you want to be the change you keep going on about. Just step up and do it, the only impediment is you.

you havent quite grasped the issue(s). It DOES matter.

Come have a beersies one time and see just how 'little' i practice what i preach.

Byo beersies.

(oh, and ill rip everyones undies and spoil my fun, i havent been paid a benne in quite a while)

bogan

7th October 2014, 08:08

Fathers have been training sons for years ....happens all the time over here ,,,,

Have a look a Calculix , a FEA software system that has open source software AND community , OpenFOAM , same thing , Highly complex systems that are ...free and community supported ...and relevent in todays world .....

anyway
nothing changes , you still have experts but the PAYMENT or compensation for those skills changes ,,Here the system falls down ( because as the society grows , the rise of a me, me culture rises to and the community is to large to self correct ....) ....so the free giving of output becomes a burden or unfair ....so we go back to the bag of spuds , unworkable ...or money ...exploitable

At some point , one may have to join the system ...for the MRI scan, or the drugs to cure me gout.

but in the meantime I can show the "man" my displeasure of his corrupt ways , by not using them ...

Stephen

More software based examples only serves to further make my point though, open source has its limits.

you havent quite grasped the issue(s). It DOES matter.

Come have a beersies one time and see just how 'little' i practice what i preach.

Byo beersies.

(oh, and ill rip everyones undies and spoil my fun, i havent been paid a benne in quite a while)

Seems it would matter even less if you haven't been paid one in a while... but I guess I'm just trying to find solutions instead of roadblocks here :whistle: Bottom line is you simply can't do without the society you hate so much and 'want' to opt out of; I find this rather funny.

Banditbandit

7th October 2014, 08:11

theres a venn diagram... Things you know, and things you dont.
Or maybe a yohari window type arrangement.

So, when dealing in jewgold, how do i explain that im tax exempt? When the council come for landrates? Police, that im exempt from legislation?
How do i go about having a sovereign claim to live free from your society's interference?

You don't. Sorry - old argument and I'm bored with it.

If you really believe your independent, cut ALL ties .. no power, not internet, no use of our roads .. no use of our stores to buy what you need. We will put an immigration post at your gate and you must apply for a visa every time you leave your property .. which must be granted BEFORE you leave your property.

I get exactly what you are saying and I wish it was not so ... but just face the reality of our lives and get on with it ..

mashman

7th October 2014, 09:01

I get exactly what you are saying and I wish it was not so ... but just face the reality of our lives and get on with it ..

heh heh heh.......

"they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist...When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat....then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew...

When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out." Martin Niemoller

Banditbandit

7th October 2014, 09:45

heh heh heh.......

If you think the two statements are contradictory, then you do not fully comprehend my position ..

mashman

7th October 2014, 11:00

If you think the two statements are contradictory, then you do not fully comprehend my position ..

Fair to say... just enjoyed the irony of telling someone to suck it up coz that's just the way things are, where once upon a time things weren't that way at all.

Ocean1

7th October 2014, 11:05

Fair to say... just enjoyed the irony of telling someone to suck it up coz that's just the way things are, where once upon a time things weren't that way at all.

Perfectly correct.

Was a time that if you didn't work hard enough you got hungry.

oldrider

7th October 2014, 12:52

Perfectly correct.

Was a time that if you didn't work hard enough you got hungry.

I have done nothing today ... so that's why I get hungry ... must do some work on that! :killingme

mashman

7th October 2014, 12:58

Was a time that if you didn't work hard enough you got hungry.

Aye, and now that there's such abundance there's still people going hungry irrespective of how hard they work. Sigh.

Ocean1

7th October 2014, 14:27

Aye, and now that there's such abundance there's still people going hungry irrespective of how hard they work. Sigh.

Then maybe the should have spent their handout on food rather than a new iPhone and a slab of piss.

mashman

7th October 2014, 14:35

Then maybe the should have spent their handout on food rather than a new iPhone and a slab of piss.

I wasn't thinking as locally as you... but hey.

Scuba_Steve

7th October 2014, 15:18

So, when dealing in jewgold, how do i explain that im tax exempt? When the council come for landrates? Police, that im exempt from legislation?
How do i go about having a sovereign claim to live free from your society's interference?

AK47 my man, A K forty seven :ar15:

You don't. Sorry - old argument and I'm bored with it.

If you really believe your independent, cut ALL ties .. no power, not internet, no use of our roads .. no use of our stores to buy what you need. We will put an immigration post at your gate and you must apply for a visa every time you leave your property .. which must be granted BEFORE you leave your property.

I get exactly what you are saying and I wish it was not so ... but just face the reality of our lives and get on with it ..

Just to play the devil, should this also not be the same for tourists then & especially diplomats? they claim independence separate from NZ with the latter also claiming immunity from our laws so should they not also give up all rights grated by NZ?

Brian d marge

7th October 2014, 15:34

More software based examples only serves to further make my point though, open source has its limits.
.

Lets see we are looking for a community driven service or product that relies solely on the freely given energies of the group

Kinda descibes most charities

Does that help

Giving freely is a hard concept to grasp epecially if you believe the powers that be

Stephen

bogan

7th October 2014, 16:49

Lets see weare looking for a community driven service or product that relies solely on the freely given enrgies of the group

Kinda descibes most charities

Does that help

Giving freely is a hard concept to grasp epecially if you believe the powers that be

Stephen

Nah i just pointed out that open source medical care isn't really a thing (and nor should it be). I'm all for a utopia, but we have to survive long enough, and not be dragged down by slackers, to reach the tipping point where societies collective outputs are so much greater than societies collective needs that the idea of IP and the like becomes redundant.

mashman

7th October 2014, 17:12

Nah i just pointed out that open source medical care isn't really a thing (and nor should it be). I'm all for a utopia, but we have to survive long enough, and not be dragged down by slackers, to reach the tipping point where societies collective outputs are so much greater than societies collective needs that the idea of IP and the like becomes redundant.

Seriously? The slackers? You're saying that if the slackers were massacred we'd suddenly burst into a productive sustainable cycle of human evolution? Really?

There will always be slackers. You need to learn to live with them... which only really means a roof, electricity, food, water, drugs, booze, fags, education, healthcare etc... ironically enough EXACTLY that which they currently consume. Why allow their existence to affect the standard of living for the vast majority of the country? Within a financial system, the costs of keeping the slackers will only ever rise, as will their numbers (automation, state of the economy etc...), which unfortunately means less $ going to other, arguably more vital, services. Sounds silly to me.

Fortunately, an R.B.E. would ignore the slackers and would plow on doing the best that it can... like implementing 1 piece of open source software globally in order to maximise efficiency. Sigh.

bogan

7th October 2014, 17:28

Seriously? The slackers? You're saying that if the slackers were massacred we'd suddenly burst into a productive sustainable cycle of human evolution? Really?

There will always be slackers. You need to learn to live with them... which only really means a roof, electricity, food, water, drugs, booze, fags, education, healthcare etc... ironically enough EXACTLY that which they currently consume. Why allow their existence to affect the standard of living for the vast majority of the country? Within a financial system, the costs of keeping the slackers will only ever rise, as will their numbers (automation, state of the economy etc...), which unfortunately means less $ going to other, arguably more vital, services. Sounds silly to me.

Fortunately, an R.B.E. would ignore the slackers and would plow on doing the best that it can... like implementing 1 piece of open source software globally in order to maximise efficiency. Sigh.

Slow down Hitler, nobody said a thing about massacring anyone.

mashman

7th October 2014, 17:56

Slow down Hitler, nobody said a thing about massacring anyone.

Then how are the slacker element going to be dealt with, without being the detriment to society as a whole that you perceive them to be?

Akzle

7th October 2014, 18:05

I get exactly what you are saying and I wish it was not so ... but just face the reality of our lives and get on with it ..

are you that old, or esoteric, that you just want somewhere warm to die?

Im not. Not either of those. I still want to set fire to things.

Akzle

7th October 2014, 18:12

Then maybe the should have spent their handout on food rather than a new iPhone and a slab of piss.

what about african kids, who dont get any of those things?

Cold and hungry. Like smokeu.

bogan

7th October 2014, 18:22

Then how are the slacker element going to be dealt with, without being the detriment to society as a whole that you perceive them to be?

Two main ways, put them to work, and minimise their cost to society.

Perhaps it would be more beneficial for you to focus on the main point of my post instead of getting all murdery; that tipping point of plenty is the most viable way to a utopia, TVP are using the same theory.

mashman

7th October 2014, 19:01

Two main ways, put them to work, and minimise their cost to society.

You may not be Htiler, but that sounds mighty Nazi'ish to me... and doomed to failure given that there will always be slackers.

Perhaps it would be more beneficial for you to focus on the main point of my post instead of getting all murdery; that tipping point of plenty is the most viable way to a utopia, TVP are using the same theory.

In what way is it the most viable way?

bogan

7th October 2014, 19:21

You may not be Htiler, but that sounds mighty Nazi'ish to me... and doomed to failure given that there will always be slackers.

Why are you so fixated on murdering or othewise eliminating all slackers?

In what way is it the most viable way?

Viably. In that it is the path the enlightened already traverse; instead of demanding massive change and forcing others, people can just be the change they wish to see. I think this doesn't sit well with a lot of advocates of massive change simply because the cost of becoming that change is more than they are capable of.

Ocean1

7th October 2014, 19:33

what about african kids, who dont get any of those things?

Cold and hungry. Like smokeu.

They don't live here. And you don't like it here. Maybe you should go show 'em how it's done.

Ocean1

7th October 2014, 19:37

I think this doesn't sit well with a lot of advocates of massive change simply because the cost of becoming that change is more than they are capable of.

Pretty much. If they were responsible for their lives then they couldn't blame "the system" for their many and various problems.

mashman

7th October 2014, 19:46

Why are you so fixated on murdering or othewise eliminating all slackers?

I'm not. You are. Ya know, "put zem to work".

Viably. In that it is the path the enlightened already traverse; instead of demanding massive change and forcing others, people can just be the change they wish to see. I think this doesn't sit well with a lot of advocates of massive change simply because the cost of becoming that change is more than they are capable of.

Demanding? Forcing? Who is? I'm glad I'm not advocating massive change then.

mashman

7th October 2014, 19:47

Pretty much. If they were responsible for their lives then they couldn't blame "the system" for their many and various problems.

Aye, some folk should just know their place.

bogan

7th October 2014, 19:55

I'm not. You are. Ya know, "put zem to work".

Demanding? Forcing? Who is? I'm glad I'm not advocating massive change then.

Not all of them, just make it more attractive to work than be a slacker in order to minimise their societal cost.

No throwing out the financial system is as easy as changing a lightbulb :rolleyes: :facepalm:

Brian d marge

7th October 2014, 20:06

mashman

7th October 2014, 20:11

Not all of them, just make it more attractive to work than be a slacker in order to minimise their societal cost.

No throwing out the financial system is as easy as changing a lightbulb :rolleyes: :facepalm:

How do you make it more attractive?

For some of us it seems to be. I've given you a method to do so but you keep putting up road blocks.

mashman

7th October 2014, 20:13

bogan

7th October 2014, 20:19

Heres an idea

How about a subsistance level dole and a non compulsory work scheme ya can get the dole andif yawant some extra benmore dam or tree planting awaits . . .not as lucrative as growing some weed but. . A fair days yakka never killed anyone

Sounds good to me.

How do you make it more attractive?

For some of us it seems to be. I've given you a method to do so but you keep putting up road blocks.

As above.

We've both given each other methods, the difference is the method I've given you suits your goal and is one you can pursue as an individual (not massive change), while the method you've given me also suits your goal, not mine; and is not one I can pursue as an individual (massive change).

Brian d marge

7th October 2014, 20:28

Isn't that kinda like how it works at the moment :innocent:
Yup except under my idea there would be naked women and in order to get on the tree planting scheme you would need to have a 2 hour interview
Oh an i support racial equality

mashman

7th October 2014, 20:36

We've both given each other methods, the difference is the method I've given you suits your goal and is one you can pursue as an individual (not massive change), while the method you've given me also suits your goal, not mine; and is not one I can pursue as an individual (massive change).

Interesting judgement call.

mashman

7th October 2014, 20:53

Yup except under my idea there would be naked women and in order to get on the tree planting scheme you would need to have a 2 hour interview
Oh an i support racial equality

You must really like talking to women.
Much more dangerous than sexual equality :shifty:

Brian d marge

7th October 2014, 21:21

You must really like talking to women.
Much more dangerous than sexual equality :shifty:
I do . . I do
I want to dip them all in chocolate and

Sorry i digress

mashman

7th October 2014, 21:30

I do . . I do
I want to dip them all in chocolate and

Sorry i digress

lol... sorry, but you're going to have finish that story so that I can

bogan

7th October 2014, 21:45

Interesting judgement call.

Well I guess finding logic interesting is a step forward, so good on ya, now just take enough interest to apply it yourself and you'll be set!

mashman

7th October 2014, 21:58

Well I guess finding logic interesting is a step forward, so good on ya, now just take enough interest to apply it yourself and you'll be set!

Logic is limited by knowledge ;).

bogan

7th October 2014, 22:05

Logic is limited by knowledge ;).

Except it isn't, quite the opposite in fact. A real 'delusions of adequacy' statement is what that is. Still, if you live long enough my utopia will eventually extend to include you.

mashman

7th October 2014, 22:18

Except it isn't, quite the opposite in fact. A real 'delusions of adequacy' statement is what that is. Still, if you live long enough my utopia will eventually extend to include you.

You choose to see it your way. I hope you get to enjoy "mine".

bogan

7th October 2014, 22:24

You choose to see it your way. I hope you get to enjoy "mine".

Logic dictates it is thus, there is no choice I make except to seek that which is. The knowledge allows that logic to be found, while ignorance leaves room for a choice based on what you want instead of what is.

Just as logic dictates yours shall never come to pass.

Scuba_Steve

7th October 2014, 22:40

when the change comes will the Ipad/phone zombies survive?

I think they'll be fine, they've worked out how to get past "heightened" security -
Security at Sydney Airport is currently under high alert after its prime minister, Tony Abbott, declared that a terrorist attack on his country was "likely," even though his security services hadn't discovered any "particular plots."
...
At the Sydney Airport, a man is so engrossed in his iPad that he wanders past a security screening and causes airport evacuation

Two main ways, put them to work, and minimise their cost to society.

I'd like to see you try & get a large corporate CEO/upper management to work, I think your dreamin mate

Brian d marge

7th October 2014, 22:50

I think they'll be fine, they've worked out how to get past "heightened" security -
Security at Sydney Airport is currently under high alert after its prime minister, Tony Abbott, declared that a terrorist attack on his country was "likely," even though his security services hadn't discovered any "particular plots."
...
At the Sydney Airport, a man is so engrossed in his iPad that he wanders past a security screening and causes airport evacuation

I'd like to see you try & get a large corporate CEO/upper management to work, I think your dreamin mate
Hahaha someone in australia is thinking about travelling to the middle east

Nail em up i say nail them up

Brian d marge

8th October 2014, 01:03

Here are some others who fail to understand the concept of giving

TRUTH for RUSSELL BRAND - EQUALITY! By Molyneux, …: http://youtu.be/wIFZyvs6MOk

Stephen

Akzle

8th October 2014, 04:06

http://m.bbc.com/news/business-29520881

o lawdy lawdy no! What ever can we do about the money?

Ive an idea! Print mo'!

Akzle

8th October 2014, 04:11

They don't live here. And you don't like it here. Maybe you should go show 'em how it's done.

please allow me to clarify.
They dont live here, so there is no problem?

Akzle

8th October 2014, 04:13

throwing out the financial system is as easy as changing a lightbulb :rolleyes: :facepalm:

oh quite. Quite.

Akzle

8th October 2014, 04:20

Logic dictates it is thus, there is no choice I make except to seek that which is. The knowledge allows that logic to be found, while ignorance leaves room for a choice based on what you want instead of what is.

Just as logic dictates yours shall never come to pass.

'this is the way we've always whipped dead horses'

i see the problem. Your foundation is wrong.
Your idea of 'what is', is skewed, flawed.
You need to sit down in the nature, smoke some nature, and find what ACTUALLY is.

mashman

8th October 2014, 06:40

Banditbandit

8th October 2014, 07:58

Just to play the devil, should this also not be the same for tourists then & especially diplomats? they claim independence separate from NZ with the latter also claiming immunity from our laws so should they not also give up all rights grated by NZ?

Hmm tourists pay for everything - flights, accommodation, food, transport, tourists trips .. What Axkle is proposuing is ceding from Godzone

are you that old, or esoteric, that you just want somewhere warm to die?

Im not. Not either of those. I still want to set fire to things.

Yes, I'm old (well, relatively), yes I can be esoteric - shit I get paid partly to be a philosopher for fucks sake ... no, I'm not waiting to die.

I once held something very close you your position - then I realised it was a dream and would never happen so I accepted the reality of where Ilive, and actually I likeour country and I like living here, and I like being part of it ...

That does not mean I think it is perfect am not mean I am not trying to change it ...

Security at Sydney Airport is currently under high alert after its prime minister, Tony Abbott, declared that a terrorist attack on his country was "likely," even though his security services hadn't discovered any "particular plots."
...

I think Abbot realises that his actions have exposed 'Strai'a to the terrorist gaze and therefore has increased the chances of a real terrorist attack ..

Banditbandit

8th October 2014, 08:00

Logic dictates it is thus, there is no choice I make except to seek that which is. The knowledge allows that logic to be found, while ignorance leaves room for a choice based on what you want instead of what is.

"The supreme triumph of reason is to cast doubt on its own validity." — Miguel de Unamuno ... Spanish philosopher 1864 – 1936

Akzle

8th October 2014, 09:14

I once held something very close you your position - then I realised it was a dream and would never happen

funny. I remember hearing of some other guy with a (long winded) dream, what could he have ever achieved. Probably nothing, cos its never gunna happen, right?

mashman

8th October 2014, 09:35

Civil Forfeiture i.e. taking your stuff without reason (ergo, it ain't your stuff if you have no choice in what happens to it). But this guy does it well and it's fuckin funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks

mashman

8th October 2014, 10:05

Here are some others who fail to understand the concept of giving

TRUTH for RUSSELL BRAND - EQUALITY! By Molyneux, …: http://youtu.be/wIFZyvs6MOk

Stephen

Schiff is a fuckin idiot.

oldrider

8th October 2014, 10:32

[QUOTE=mashman;1130778523]Civil Forfeiture i.e. taking your stuff without reason (ergo, it ain't your stuff if you have no choice in what happens to it). But this guy does it well and it's fuckin funny.

That clip was funny ... frighteningly funny FFS! ... Fuck America and their TPPA, we don't need shit like that! :oi-grr:

mashman

8th October 2014, 10:50

That clip was funny ... frighteningly funny FFS! ... Fuck America and their TPPA, we don't need shit like that! :oi-grr:

Wonder what the penalty for claiming to own something that isn't actually yours is? Coz that'd be all of us in the chit. Perhaps that hasn't been argued yet :eek:.

bogan

8th October 2014, 10:59

Ah, I see, selective "enlightenment".

Enlightenment always is, unfortunately for the dregs of society the selection criteria often involves mental aptitude...

"The supreme triumph of reason is to cast doubt on its own validity." — Miguel de Unamuno ... Spanish philosopher 1864 – 1936

Yeh, that is like advanced levels thinking though, these guys need to start with the baby steps stuff.

mashman

8th October 2014, 11:21

Enlightenment always is, unfortunately for the dregs of society the selection criteria often involves mental aptitude...

:killingme... how unenlightened.

bogan

8th October 2014, 11:26

:killingme... how unenlightened.

And yet, progress on my path to utopia is still far ahead of yours :D

mashman

8th October 2014, 11:55

And yet, progress on my path to utopia is still far ahead of yours :D

I see Ed has hacked your account again :shifty:

Banditbandit

8th October 2014, 12:03

funny. I remember hearing of some other guy with a (long winded) dream, what could he have ever achieved. Probably nothing, cos its never gunna happen, right?

:rofl: Yeah mate - I had 20 acres of land and tried to cut myself off from society as much as possible - grew and harvested or killed my own food .. had my own water supply ... but I still had electricity - I could have cut that off too and relied solely on burning wood (grown and cut on the property) for warmth and cooking ... or I could have put in my own wind powered generator (purchased from, or with parts purchased from, OUR SOCIETY)

I still was forced to pay rates, I still used the roads and I had to buy petrol - especially to get my lambs to the sales - but also because I like riding bikes ... I do like coffee and I needed flour ... I bought ammunition to harvest wild meat (tho' I can use hunting bows)

It was impossible to completely cut myself off ...

Yeah - it's a nice dream but in contemporary world, it's impossible. And I don't believe you're even trying ... have YOU thought about cutting off your power supply?? How about cutting off your IPC???

Banditbandit

8th October 2014, 12:04

And yet, progress on my path to utopia is still far ahead of yours :D

Oh well, plenty more rebirths before you reach enlightenment then ..

bogan

8th October 2014, 12:07

I see Ed has hacked your account again :shifty:

Do you ever discuss things of substance?

Lets review:
Path to utopia A; human productivity and production automation reaches levels in which we have no unfulfilled needs and few unfulfilled wants, ownership of property (including intellectual) becomes far less of an issue at this tipping point, and the subsequent sharing assures utopian like existence with regard to resource management.
Change Level: individual.
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others.
Examples: TVP, charitable individuals, etc

Path B; remove money, retain ownership? decrease production in some areas? resource allocation based on 'need' (as decided by whom?)
Change level: society wide, and some extra society changes
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

Now, can you maintain a logical discussion to concisely fill in the question marks left in Path B?

bogan

8th October 2014, 12:09

Oh well, plenty more rebirths before you reach enlightenment then ..

That doesn't sound like you have any self doubts? tsk tsk, perhaps the same goes for you :bleh:

Also, have you stopped being a racist yet?

Banditbandit

8th October 2014, 12:15

Do you ever discuss things of substance?

Path B; remove money, retain ownership? decrease production in some areas? resource allocation based on 'need' (as decided by whom?)
Change level: society wide, and some extra society changes
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

Now, can you maintain a logical discussion to concisely fill in the question marks left in Path B?

Maybe I can .. but then I need to ask you some questions about Path B

Retain ownership? - maybe not .. what you seem to describe is very close to an anarchist model ... and no, ownership would not be retain. It is not necessary. Ownership is linked to wants and needs and all of those would be fulfilled.

Decrease production in some areas? Why? Do you see this as a necessity? If so, why? Production is only reliant on machines, not human beings in your scenario. I don't see why production would be reduced.

Resource allocation based on need?? But al our needs will be fulfilled. There's a bit of a gap here I don't see. Can you explain why resource allocation is important if all our wants and needs are fulfilled.

Yes, there will be massive change, at a societal level and an individual level, but I can't build you the argument unless you can fill in the gaps and answer the questions I have posed for Path B.

Banditbandit

8th October 2014, 12:17

That doesn't sound like you have any self doubts? tsk tsk, perhaps the same goes for you :bleh:

Also, have you stopped being a racist yet?

I don't know about self doubts - but as a Buddhist I am pretty certain that this life I have will spark at least one more rebirth .. after that, who can say?

PS. I don't believe I am a racist ... but I choose not to engage with you any more on inter-cultural issues.

bogan

8th October 2014, 12:20

Maybe I can .. but then I need to ask you some questions about Path B

Retain ownership? - maybe not .. what you seem to describe is very close to an anarchist model ... and no, ownership would not be retain. It is not necessary. Ownership is linked to wants and needs and all of those would be fulfilled.

Decrease production in some areas? Why? Do you see this as a necessity? If so, why? Production is only reliant on machines, not human beings in your scenario. I don't see why production would be reduced.

Resource allocation based on need?? But al our needs will be fulfilled. There's a bit of a gap here I don't see. Can you explain why resource allocation is important if all our wants and needs are fulfilled.

Yes, there will be massive change, at a societal level and an individual level, but I can't build you the argument unless you can fill in the gaps and answer the questions I have posed for Path B.

Plan B is not my plan, we shall have to wait for mashy to fill in those things if he can. The ? I left were because I think on different days we get different answers for that same plan...

I will take it as a compliment that no further questions were need about Path A though :D

bogan

8th October 2014, 12:22

I don't know about self doubts - but as a Buddhist I am pretty certain that this life I have will spark at least one more rebirth .. after that, who can say?

PS. I don't believe I am a racist ... but I choose not to engage with you any more on inter-cultural issues.

Indeed.

They rarely do, a wise choice considering your views on 'pakeha' culture :2thumbsup Though perhaps shying away from your own shortcomings is not an enlightened choice...

mashman

8th October 2014, 12:22

Do you ever discuss things of substance?

Lets review:
Path to utopia A; human productivity and production automation reaches levels in which we have no unfulfilled needs and few unfulfilled wants, ownership of property (including intellectual) becomes far less of an issue at this tipping point, and the subsequent sharing assures utopian like existence with regard to resource management.
Change Level: individual.
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others.
Examples: TVP, charitable individuals, etc

Path B; remove money, retain ownership? decrease production in some areas? resource allocation based on 'need' (as decided by whom?)
Change level: society wide, and some extra society changes
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

Now, can you maintain a logical discussion to concisely fill in the question marks left in Path B?

Not with you, no... because your cup is already full.

Banditbandit

8th October 2014, 12:26

Though perhaps shying away from your own shortcomings is not an enlightened choice...

:rofl: Maybe I can follow you lead and throw that one right back atchya ...

bogan

8th October 2014, 12:31

Maybe I can follow you lead and throw that one right back atchya ...

Perhaps it would stick better if you attached a shortcoming to it before throwing it back? I know I have them, but unless there is one you think I'm shying away from, the main point is missed...

Brian d marge

8th October 2014, 12:35

Let the open source revolution begin

Ar15 anyone?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/x90neTuxn_c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stephen

oldrider

8th October 2014, 12:52

I don't believe I am a racist ...

Think again seriously about that.

Everybody is a racist by degree ... it is mainly our decision not to engage in the negatives of it for the sake of societal harmony and to remain inoffensive! :grouphug:

But dig even just a little bit in the right circumstances and whallah ... there it is! ... simply add a little venom and it will be just as bad as the baddest there is! :spanking:

If I choose to allow myself to lose control ... RACIST? ... absolutely! ... On one very "provoked" occasion I even astounded myself! :o

When in a conflict we reach for any god damned weapon we can find and lash out with it and it feels good ... until we we regain self control and then! :Oops::doh:

TOO fricking LATE! :whistle: Move on and try to pick up the pieces as you go!

mashman

8th October 2014, 13:19

The shit that kiwi's will do for money eh (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/25206625/auckland-homeless-man-killed-for-money/)

Banditbandit

8th October 2014, 13:23

Think again seriously about that.

Everybody is a racist by degree ... it is mainly our decision not to engage in the negatives of it for the sake of societal harmony and to remain inoffensive! :grouphug:

But dig even just a little bit in the right circumstances and whallah ... there it is! ... simply add a little venom and it will be just as bad as the baddest there is! :spanking:

If I choose to allow myself to lose control ... RACIST? ... absolutely! ... On one very "provoked" occasion I even astounded myself! :o

When in a conflict we reach for any god damned weapon we can find and lash out with it and it feels good ... until we we regain self control and then! :Oops::doh:

TOO fricking LATE! :whistle: Move on and try to pick up the pieces as you go!

Yeah - I agree. I was thinking about responding to Bogan along those lines, but I have chosen not to engage with him on inter-cultural issues.

One thing I really hate, which drives me batshit, is Chinese voices .. but like you I choose to control it and not ACT racist ...

oldrider

8th October 2014, 13:29

The shit that kiwi's will do for money eh (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/25206625/auckland-homeless-man-killed-for-money/)

What the hell is this Justice guy all about FFS? :rolleyes:

[Quote] He already has one strike under the three strikes law and Justice Graham Lang didn't enter a conviction due to the sentencing ramifications of Turner having a second strike against his name.[Quote] :brick:

Akzle

8th October 2014, 13:54

It was impossible to completely cut myself off ...

Yeah - it's a nice dream but in contemporary world, it's impossible. And I don't believe you're even trying ... have YOU thought about cutting off your power supply?? How about cutting off your IPC???
uhh. i am solar powered... off grid.
i don't know what IPC (http://www.abbreviations.com/IPC) stands for?

Everybody is a racist by degree ... it is mainly our decision not to engage in the negatives of it for the sake of societal harmony and to remain inoffensive!

i don't believe that for a minute.
i'm only racist against the human race.

Brian d marge

8th October 2014, 15:06

I would pur me dick anywhere near a white woman . . .that would make me racist and sexist

mashman

8th October 2014, 15:09

Let the open source revolution begin

Ar15 anyone?

Stephen

Saw that last night and lol'd a lot. Bet the boom is due to orders from the middle east :shifty:

Anyhoo, I should dutifully post up Max. Rootin for ya da man Mitchell :yes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKOKZrp1AEo

mashman

9th October 2014, 09:27

There's no such thing as a free lunch... unless there is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSW3s-Wm9Y

oldrider

9th October 2014, 13:19

[Quote]The communists just beat us at capitalism! [Quote] :killingme ... had to laugh at that one! :laugh:

Brian d marge

10th October 2014, 01:03

There's no such thing as a free lunch... unless there is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSW3s-Wm9Y

the stock market sitting around 1900 currencies all through the floor , gold and sliver through the floor .....Alibaba a company whom does what?? and is where ??? and is NOT the only ghost comany ...btw is twitter making a profit , and how much is it worth????

Massive wealth transfer , and a lot of hardship coming to a town call you ...real soon,,,,,,

Stephen

Brian d marge

10th October 2014, 13:35

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA the Unpaid Pol tax is back ...OMG ...I LOLed

Stay gets animated !!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_NbRoULAh2M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stephen

Maybe not xmas ...but it looks like I may get to go shopping

mashman

10th October 2014, 23:17

Brian d marge

11th October 2014, 00:17

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa@understanding insolvency, because you're an insurance company. (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/go-fck-yourself-stewart-bashes-aig-for-whining-about-unfair-treatment-in-govt-bailout/)

They get their monies one way or another ........

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29561345

Fk em I reckon

Stephen

avgas

11th October 2014, 03:11

[Quote]The communists just beat us at capitalism! [Quote] :killingme ... had to laugh at that one! :laugh:
It gets worse. I recently found myself out of a job here in the US of A.......funny thing is the first time in my life I might qualify for DOL payments. Why? Because I paid a certain social security tax which meant that if I lost my job I would qualify for it.
But they are careful not to call it a benefit. No apparently I paid "unemployment insurance" and this is some kind of claim. :laugh:

Of course it doesn't really matter - because it will barely cover my health insurance (let alone any other bill I have). So capitalism still lives here.

avgas

11th October 2014, 03:12

btw is twitter making a profit , and how much is it worth????
Yes - barely. It keeps expanding operations as fast as growth.
But still that is not bad when you think of Xero.

mashman

11th October 2014, 08:07

They get their monies one way or another ........

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29561345

Fk em I reckon

Stephen

Wonder why they nationalised the resources?

Oh and, World Bank's International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes, just love the name.

oldrider

11th October 2014, 09:14

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA the Unpaid Pol tax is back ...OMG ...I LOLed

Stay gets animated !!

Stephen

Maybe not xmas ...but it looks like I may get to go shopping

Ah so .... they have almost identified the "serpent" that is controlling and holding the world to ransom!

The only way to kill a snake is to cut off it's head, right close up and the snake they need to kill is Zionism and the effect of the world Zionist lobby!

Preferably let the snake live and be the snake that it is but remove and or detox it's venom sack, rendering the snake powerless and worldly compatible!

Understanding the problem and dealing with it humanely while practising that old calming influence of forgiveness would be nice!

Unfortunately "Machiavellian history" tells us unless we kill the snake it will only return to begin to do it's work all over again!

Forgiveness is compromise and historically compromise is simply doing a deal with the devil which always ends in tears!

Then again there are those that say that the devil himself is Zionism! .. Whatever! .. The problem is real and it requires a real solution ... sooner rather than later!

mashman

11th October 2014, 09:40

Ah so .... they have almost identified the "serpent" that is controlling and holding the world to ransom!

The only way to kill a snake is to cut off it's head, right close up and the snake they need to kill is Zionism and the effect of the world Zionist lobby!

Preferably let the snake live and be the snake that it is but remove and or detox it's venom sack, rendering the snake powerless and worldly compatible!

Understanding the problem and dealing with it humanely while practising that old calming influence of forgiveness would be nice!

Unfortunately "Machiavellian history" tells us unless we kill the snake it will only return to begin to do it's work all over again!

Forgiveness is compromise and historically compromise is simply doing a deal with the devil which always ends in tears!

Then again there are those that say that the devil himself is Zionism! .. Whatever! .. The problem is real and it requires a real solution ... sooner rather than later!

No they don't.

That's not the only way at all. Also, and I think this is important given that most people miss this, who is the "THEY" who are going to cut off the head off the snake? Which brings us back to that other way thing :shifty:. In that instance, "THEY" would be us and the sword used would be democracy. The zionists, of which you speak, can only continue if there is a financial system (its "model" matters not). So much more affective :yes:.

The financial system can be removed humanely and calmly because it will create no social or financial debt.

I agree, a solution is required. All of the mechanisms are in place to achieve that solution :blip:

oldrider

11th October 2014, 10:56

No they don't.

That's not the only way at all. Also, and I think this is important given that most people miss this, who is the "THEY" who are going to cut off the head off the snake? Which brings us back to that other way thing :shifty:. In that instance, "THEY" would be us and the sword used would be democracy. The zionists, of which you speak, can only continue if there is a financial system (its "model" matters not). So much more affective :yes:.

The financial system can be removed humanely and calmly because it will create no social or financial debt.

I agree, a solution is required. All of the mechanisms are in place to achieve that solution :blip:

True ... the "they" is us! (everyone else) ... The easiest way to eat an elephant is one bight at a time!

While I don't disagree with "your" proposals .... what you propose is one big step for mankind .... somewhat like going to the moon! :shit:

mashman

11th October 2014, 11:16

True ... the "they" is us! (everyone else) ... The easiest way to eat an elephant is one bight at a time!

While I don't disagree with "your" proposals .... what you propose is one big step for mankind .... somewhat like going to the moon! :shit:

It isn't that hard in the slightest as it's nothing more than a decision. We make decisions all the time so it's nothing new... just new thoughts ;) The associated imagery can be quite stunning :yes: It's a baby step.

oldrider

11th October 2014, 11:27

It isn't that hard in the slightest as it's nothing more than a decision. We make decisions all the time so it's nothing new... just new thoughts ;) The associated imagery can be quite stunning :yes: It's a baby step.

Well ... almost my own thoughts exactly ... simply change the way we think ... is all that is required!

I don't think there is too much wrong with the current "system" other than the corrupt way they work and control it!

Don't forget that I am old and attached to many current ways but am always open to change in the long run just not too quick to recognise it sometimes! :o

I like to make what is current work and then move on and improve it! :sunny: Otherwise you risk taking the shit along with you for the ride! :facepalm:

mashman

11th October 2014, 13:33

Well ... almost my own thoughts exactly ... simply change the way we think ... is all that is required!

I don't think there is too much wrong with the current "system" other than the corrupt way they work and control it!

Don't forget that I am old and attached to many current ways but am always open to change in the long run just not too quick to recognise it sometimes! :o

Thing is, we only need to make 1 decision and not our entire belief system or the preconceptions that have us putting labels on everything. We don't really need to change the way we think, as 99% of us are already decent dood and doodettes 99% of the time, even the bad feckers.

I know what you mean about the financial system and its workings etc... it is open to abuse and were once upon a time that meant direct theft, now it's theft of purchasing power that's used at all levels. It has always been there and always will if the same mechanisms that allowed it to flourish exist. They iz da masterz of that game.

I like to make what is current work and then move on and improve it! :sunny: Otherwise you risk taking the shit along with you for the ride! :facepalm:

Funny thing is John, that's exactly what I'm proposing lol. The current system has worked to a point, time to improve it and shed some of the accumulated shit along the way ;).

bogan

11th October 2014, 14:29

The current system has worked to a point, time to improve it and shed some of the accumulated shit along the way ;).

Shed things Like personal ownership? Societies productivity? Earner/buyer choices?

Seems easier to just make the requisite changes on a personal level than to winge about pushing that garbage through.

Hell, if we are after one simple decision, could be to

<img src="http://api.ning.com/files/0fwpYNjI0a-CPZ-cJvJh4vOp9q-I-zPzS2-jCE8lST828-5wKyluKrgK5LoI5wdxUHy8d*2YrGaU6XMwX4yxfkW2wRDtJyfJ/StopWhining400.jpg" />

mashman

11th October 2014, 15:09

Shed things Like personal ownership? Societies productivity? Earner/buyer choices?

Seems easier to just make the requisite changes on a personal level than to winge about pushing that garbage through.

Hell, if we are after one simple decision, could be to

Why? Why? :killingme@ironing.

Fortunately I'm not you.

Awwwwwwww, social conscience giving you headaches eh. Get fucked springs to mind as a response.

Oscar

11th October 2014, 15:24

Why? Why? :killingme@ironing.

Fortunately I'm not you.

Awwwwwwww, social conscience giving you headaches eh. Get fucked springs to mind as a response.

Jeez, not only are you clueless when it comes to economics and society, you don't know good advice when it's given.
You're even whining about being told not to whine...

bogan

11th October 2014, 15:33

Why? Why? :killingme@ironing.

Fortunately I'm not you.

Awwwwwwww, social conscience giving you headaches eh. Get fucked springs to mind as a response.

Those were questions to you, as in, are these things <list of things with question marks> things that you are proposing we get rid of?

Lets face it, the current system has enough question dodging fuckwits in it, if you're trying to 'sell' a new one, maybe doing something positive like answering questions is a good approach?

bogan

11th October 2014, 15:45

Jeez, not only are you clueless when it comes to economics and society

I think that is his only point of difference with the more popular politicians. Both say what they think we want to hear, without saying much of substance, both will end up selling our future for short term gains...

mashman

11th October 2014, 15:46

Those were questions to you, as in, are these things <list of things with question marks> things that you are proposing we get rid of?

Lets face it, the current system has enough question dodging fuckwits in it, if you're trying to 'sell' a new one, maybe doing something positive like answering questions is a good approach?

The answers of Why? too cryptic huh. In which case. No. No. No.

Ya got tae sell it tae yersel lad... nae otha mutha fucka can sell it tae ye.

Akzle

11th October 2014, 15:54

someone said open source hardware?
https://ghostgunner.net/

mashman

11th October 2014, 15:55

Jeez, not only are you clueless when it comes to economics and society, you don't know good advice when it's given.
You're even whining about being told not to whine...

:yawn: I had such high hopes for you too.

mashman

11th October 2014, 15:57

someone said open source hardware?
https://ghostgunner.net/

They have... but it never ceases to amuse.

bogan

11th October 2014, 15:58

The answers of Why? too cryptic huh. In which case. No. No. No.

Ya got tae sell it tae yersel lad... nae otha mutha fucka can sell it tae ye.

Again, no answers there, at least step up to winnie's level

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9RZrvVx2jdQbq0itWEAIsD1fDNyv8-n630U2oyuwwXtNz5zJlDPDVbJ4

mashman

11th October 2014, 16:01

Again, no answers there, at least step up to winnie's level

Is that not what you wanted to hear?

Brian d marge

11th October 2014, 16:06

Jeez, not only are you clueless when it comes to economics and society, you don't know good advice when it's given.
You're even whining about being told not to whine...
Why am i thinking pot kettle

Minus the whine

Stephen

bogan

11th October 2014, 16:14

Is that not what you wanted to hear?

Is it a yes or no on personal ownership continuing under your proposal? Tis an inconclusive answer you gave as nobody being able to sell it you suggests no, but being able to sell it to yourself suggests a degree of ownership in the first place. Of course neither of which addresses the relevant point for some, will the new 'govt' take any of my 3 holiday houses, 7 weekend cars/bikes, or 432 gold rings? since I cannot use them all at once.

Oscar

11th October 2014, 16:16

Why am i thinking pot kettle

Minus the whine

Stephen

There is little evidence on this forum to back up your statement; "I am thinking.."

Brian d marge

11th October 2014, 16:21

There is little evidence on this forum to back up your statement; "I am thinking.."
Present continuous ? Do keep up . .
Stephen

mashman

11th October 2014, 16:43

Is it a yes or no on personal ownership continuing under your proposal? Tis an inconclusive answer you gave as nobody being able to sell it you suggests no, but being able to sell it to yourself suggests a degree of ownership in the first place. Of course neither of which addresses the relevant point for some, will the new 'govt' take any of my 3 holiday houses, 7 weekend cars/bikes, or 432 gold rings? since I cannot use them all at once.

That's up to the individual innit. Why would anyone take anything that "belongs" to someone else?

In regards to the selling thing, I meant you need to sell the solution/idea (not material goods) to yourself, as no other person can.

bogan

11th October 2014, 16:48

That's up to the individual innit. Why would anyone take anything that "belongs" to someone else?

In regards to the selling thing, I meant you need to sell the solution/idea (not material goods) to yourself, as no other person can.

So yes, personal ownership does continue; because that is what some or many will decide. So who then decides how much goods/resources a person can acquire, given that money isn't a thing, and personal ownership is?

Then you have a profound misunderstanding of how a proposal works.

mashman

11th October 2014, 17:24

So yes, personal ownership does continue; because that is what some or many will decide. So who then decides how much goods/resources a person can acquire, given that money isn't a thing, and personal ownership is?

Then you have a profound misunderstanding of how a proposal works.

Personal responsibility will decide.

:killingme@ironing. I understand that no person on this planet can sell me anything. I must sell it to me in order to want it for me. I may be swayed because the thing is nice and shiny or that the thing is a graphene display or that I simply like women's shoes, but it will be ME that has swayed myself and therefore me that sells it to myself, the advertising is nothing more than suggestion I make the choice.

bogan

11th October 2014, 17:30

Personal responsibility will decide.

Sweet, I always wanted a Lambo in the garage :drool: Even if personal responsibility of those making the change won out, there would be capitalists who want to see it fail, and would buy 10 lambos per week to achieve just that.

And this is why it cannot be forced upon others, nor will it ever come to pass; go with my plan and turn yourself into the change you wish others to make, lead by example.

mashman

11th October 2014, 17:38

Sweet, I always wanted a Lambo in the garage :drool: Even if personal responsibility of those making the change won out, there would be capitalists who want to see it fail, and would buy 10 lambos per week to achieve just that.

And this is why it cannot be forced upon others, nor will it ever come to pass; go with my plan and turn yourself into the change you wish others to make, lead by example.

You seem to be discounting the fact that whoever wants a lambo will have to deal with the dealer. Could end up that only him and his mates get 'em or at least get access to 'em first. Maybe you suck cock well enough though.

Never said anything would be forced did I? Glad you're happy with your plan, as you say it's easy to achieve. Some of us prefer to work hard for that which they desire.

bogan

11th October 2014, 17:44

You seem to be discounting the fact that whoever wants a lambo will have to deal with the dealer. Could end up that only him and his mates get 'em or at least get access to 'em first. Maybe you suck cock well enough though.

Never said anything would be forced did I? Glad you're happy with your plan, as you say it's easy to achieve. Some of us prefer to work hard for that which they desire.

Right, so gotta be in charge of the import supply chain to get all the perks and kickbacks. Sound fair as :facepalm:

So, 100% vote to get it in then, that's a pretty big ask. Some of our plans rely on working hard, instead of asking for handouts :yes:

mashman

11th October 2014, 18:10

Right, so gotta be in charge of the import supply chain to get all the perks and kickbacks. Sound fair as :facepalm:

So, 100% vote to get it in then, that's a pretty big ask. Some of our plans rely on working hard, instead of asking for handouts :yes:

You say that as if the current system doesn't work in the exact same way.

Why 100%? :rofl:@handouts.

bogan

11th October 2014, 18:25

You say that as if the current system doesn't work in the exact same way.

Why 100%? :rofl:@handouts.

It doesn't, because anyone can be an importer (apart from a few monopolys and the like), and those giving/getting better deals get more custom, leaving the corrupt to go out of business; free market forces at work :D Anyway, I thought yours was supposed to be better...

Because anything less than 100% and you would be forcing people into said system (or out of the country); or are you just playing 'well I didn't actually say that' game? (another favorite of politicians)

mashman

11th October 2014, 19:48

It doesn't, because anyone can be an importer (apart from a few monopolys and the like), and those giving/getting better deals get more custom, leaving the corrupt to go out of business; free market forces at work :D Anyway, I thought yours was supposed to be better...

Because anything less than 100% and you would be forcing people into said system (or out of the country); or are you just playing 'well I didn't actually say that' game? (another favorite of politicians)

Apart from a few monopoly's eh... totally insignificant they are :facepalm: Such control would be nigh on impossible to achieve under "my" system. So yeah, much better.

Nah, all we need is a majority vote, ya know, same as always in a democracy.

Brian d marge

11th October 2014, 20:06

That's up to the individual innit. Why would anyone take anything that "belongs" to someone else?

In regards to the selling thing, I meant you need to sell the solution/idea (not material goods) to yourself, as no other person can.
Belongs . . . . A very new concept . . Wonder if it will take off

Young people with their new fangled ideas

bogan

11th October 2014, 20:27

Apart from a few monopoly's eh... totally insignificant they are :facepalm: Such control would be nigh on impossible to achieve under "my" system. So yeah, much better.

Nah, all we need is a majority vote, ya know, same as always in a democracy.

Compared to your scheme which is full of corrupt suppliers the current monopolys etc are insignificant. Your first example showed the corruptness of your system, so hardly impossible is it :killingme

So you will be forcing people, like I said earlier.

mashman

11th October 2014, 21:12

Compared to your scheme which is full of corrupt suppliers the current monopolys etc are insignificant. Your first example showed the corruptness of your system, so hardly impossible is it :killingme

So you will be forcing people, like I said earlier.

So you've tarred everyone as corrupt eh. Gotta say, I'm not gonna miss my lambo, so won't lose any sleep over people deciding that they wish to do business with whoever they choose to do business with. You're sounding like a Nazi again. What's the probability of that attitude pervading the entire compliment of society and their actions? I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Nope. Democracy will have spoken. That's the way democracy works. No one will be forced to do anything, you'll be more than welcome to sit and sulk in the corner and take no part in society whatsoever. The best bit, for you sulking in the corner, is that "my" society will not be deny you access to any services or resources that you need. See, we're not knuckle dragging morons unlike your fucked up n twisted logic that would have people that leave society never gain access to any resources/services again. Fuckin savage.

bogan

11th October 2014, 21:25

So you've tarred everyone as corrupt eh. Gotta say, I'm not gonna miss my lambo, so won't lose any sleep over people deciding that they wish to do business with whoever they choose to do business with. You're sounding like a Nazi again. What's the probability of that attitude pervading the entire compliment of society and their actions? I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Nope. Democracy will have spoken. That's the way democracy works. No one will be forced to do anything, you'll be more than welcome to sit and sulk in the corner and take no part in society whatsoever. The best bit, for you sulking in the corner, is that "my" society will not be deny you access to any services or resources that you need. See, we're not knuckle dragging morons unlike your fucked up n twisted logic that would have people that leave society never gain access to any resources/services again. Fuckin savage.

Not at all, it was your example that showed the lambo dealer to be corrupt.

Democracy forces the minority to go along with majority decision. Allowing us sit it the corner and not take part is forcing us to your ways, as you enforce the breaking of the work/reward relationship we believe in.

mashman

11th October 2014, 21:39

Not at all, it was your example that showed the lambo dealer to be corrupt.

Democracy forces the minority to go along with majority decision. Allowing us sit it the corner and not take part is forcing us to your ways, as you enforce the breaking of the work/reward relationship we believe in.

Nah, you're the one saying that his way of doing business is what you perceive as corrupt... I see him as doing business his way.

Not at all, you're the one heading for the corner on the basis that you have perceived that you have been forced to sit in the corner where in reality it will have been your own decision to put yourself into the corner due to you not wanting to play given the new rules. Stop blaming others for your future decisions dood... it makes you sound like a selfish wanker.

bogan

11th October 2014, 22:11

Nah, you're the one saying that his way of doing business is what you perceive as corrupt... I see him as doing business his way.

Not at all, you're the one heading for the corner on the basis that you have perceived that you have been forced to sit in the corner where in reality it will have been your own decision to put yourself into the corner due to you not wanting to play given the new rules. Stop blaming others for your future decisions dood... it makes you sound like a selfish wanker.

Just so we are clear, the system you are proposing can base resource allocation on sexual favors, mates deals (and assumedly other sorts of kickbacks).

Exactly, it is play by the rules or sit it out, that is a choice you would force on others who would rather choose to earn based on how hard they work. Alternatively, the same argument could be applied to your whining, those who lack simply do so because of their decision not to earn enough money to obtain the resources they would like.

Anyway, I think I've dragged enough out of you for another review...

Path to utopia A; human productivity and production automation reaches levels in which we have no unfulfilled needs and few unfulfilled wants, ownership of property (including intellectual) becomes far less of an issue at this tipping point, and the subsequent sharing assures utopian like existence with regard to resource management.
Change Level: individual.
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others.
Examples: TVP, charitable individuals, etc

Path B; remove money, retain personal ownership, work as much or little as you feel, resource allocation based supplier whims (kickbacks, sexual favors, mates deals etc).
Change level: society wide (minority forced into this system when a majority votes for it), and some extra-society changes
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

mashman

11th October 2014, 22:19

Just so we are clear, the system you are proposing can base resource allocation on sexual favors, mates deals (and assumedly other sorts of kickbacks).

Exactly, it is play by the rules or sit it out, that is a choice you would force on others who would rather choose to earn based on how hard they work. Alternatively, the same argument could be applied to your whining, those who lack simply do so because of their decision not to earn enough money to obtain the resources they would like.

Anyway, I think I've dragged enough out of you for another review...

Path to utopia A; human productivity and production automation reaches levels in which we have no unfulfilled needs and few unfulfilled wants, ownership of property (including intellectual) becomes far less of an issue at this tipping point, and the subsequent sharing assures utopian like existence with regard to resource management.
Change Level: individual.
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others.
Examples: TVP, charitable individuals, etc

Path B; remove money, retain personal ownership, work as much or little as you feel, resource allocation based supplier whims (kickbacks, sexual favors, mates deals etc).
Change level: society wide (minority forced into this system when a majority votes for it), and some extra society changes
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

Not even close, but you've proven yourself incapable of getting over the roadblocks that you keep putting up... so I'm not surprised that we're back here again.
In which case only take what you believe you deserve, ya know, that responsibility thing again. Is that why I'm whining?

Selfish wanker it is.

Brian d marge

11th October 2014, 22:20

Path to utopia A; human productivity and production automation reaches levels in which we have no unfulfilled needs and few unfulfilled wants, ownership of property (including intellectual) becomes far less of an issue at this tipping point, and the subsequent sharing assures utopian like existence with regard to resource management.
Change Level: individual.
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others.
Examples: TVP, charitable individuals, etc

Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

I like path A ..cept , the production thing ...why does a want or need , and the fulfilment of that need, have to be associated with productivity

Stephen

bogan

11th October 2014, 22:47

I like path A ..cept , the production thing ...why does a want or need , and the fulfilment of that need, have to be associated with productivity

Stephen

Society's ability to fill its own wants and needs is that productivity though isn't it? I mean take food as a need, we have to produce X to fulfill that need, take booze as a want, we have to produce Y to fulfill that want. Now what if we get to the stage where we can fill 2X or 2Y, why bother with allocating/charging for that when it is so plentiful?

Not even close, but you've proven yourself incapable of getting over the roadblocks that you keep putting up... so I'm not surprised that we're back here again.
In which case only take what you believe you deserve, ya know, that responsibility thing again. Is that why I'm whining?

Selfish wanker it is.

It's a summary of the ideas you have put forward, please point out where/if/how it is inaccurate and I will update. Unless of course you just don't like how it sounds when objectively interpreted, in which case just carry on showing us what a great politician you are by dishing out insults instead of information :facepalm:

Ocean1

11th October 2014, 23:19

I like path A ..cept , the production thing ...why does a want or need , and the fulfilment of that need, have to be associated with productivity

Stephen

If you want something produced then why should it have to be associated with someone else's productivity?

Brian d marge

11th October 2014, 23:21

Why does it have to be associated with someone else's productivity?
True it doesnt

Cept im a lazy arse

And decended from royalty

Brian d marge

11th October 2014, 23:32

Spectacular, a decent Muslim Scholar says Islamic…: http://youtu.be/i0K7A_V7XHQ

Not the only one complaining about lazy arsed dope smoking crackers

Seems they have em as well

mashman

12th October 2014, 08:11

It's a summary of the ideas you have put forward, please point out where/if/how it is inaccurate and I will update. Unless of course you just don't like how it sounds when objectively interpreted, in which case just carry on showing us what a great politician you are by dishing out insults instead of information :facepalm:

It is a summary, your summary, the reality that you have chosen to attach to what you believe I believe. The good news is that you are about as far away from understanding how I see an R.B.E. as you always have, so you're consistent. Oh and objectively, from a self confessed scientist, bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa. It wasn't a personal insult, it was an objectively interpreted summary of your postings. You go nowhere with them because of them thar roadblocks that you claim that everyone else has bar you, Ed.

mashman

12th October 2014, 08:12

If you want something produced then why should it have to be associated with someone else's productivity?

Do you sell a product that comes absolutely ready made or that doesn't rely on another being's productivity?

mashman

12th October 2014, 08:14

Spectacular, a decent Muslim Scholar says Islamic…: http://youtu.be/i0K7A_V7XHQ

Not the only one complaining about lazy arsed dope smoking crackers

Seems they have em as well

Go figure... who would have thought that a wanker was a wanker irrespective of geography eh.

bogan

12th October 2014, 08:47

It is a summary, your summary, the reality that you have chosen to attach to what you believe I believe. The good news is that you are about as far away from understanding how I see an R.B.E. as you always have, so you're consistent. Oh and objectively, from a self confessed scientist, bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa. It wasn't a personal insult, it was an objectively interpreted summary of your postings. You go nowhere with them because of them thar roadblocks that you claim that everyone else has bar you, Ed.

And yet, your understanding is clearly so lacking that you cannot dispute my objective summary and must instead resort to a stream of insults, now who does that remind me of? :laugh:

oldrider

12th October 2014, 08:51

Spectacular, a decent Muslim Scholar says Islamic…: http://youtu.be/i0K7A_V7XHQ

An ideal world for an Arab (Muslim) is sitting on top of a pile of rubble singing ... "I did it my way"! :weird:

mashman

12th October 2014, 09:23

And yet, your understanding is clearly so lacking that you cannot dispute my objective summary and must instead resort to a stream of insults, now who does that remind me of? :laugh:

I have disputed your summary, ya know, the bit where I said:

The good news is that you are about as far away from understanding how I see an R.B.E. as you always have

Stream of insults? Where? You are the one taking the offense :facepalm:. That you feel the need to blame me for how you feel is quite honestly not taking responsibility for yourself. Hence you misinterpret what I mean with your subjective interpretation. Deeply flawed reasoning and logic at best. You might want to practice what you preach. That's not an attack, just an objective observation given the evidence I've seen thus far.

Ocean1

12th October 2014, 09:28

Do you sell a product that comes absolutely ready made or that doesn't rely on another being's productivity?

Sometimes.

More often I use materials others have made, materials paid for at the agreed price rather than what they or you or some committee decide, (whichever is the prevailing fantasy of the week).

bogan

12th October 2014, 09:39

I have disputed your summary, ya know, the bit where I said:

Stream of insults? Where? You are the one taking the offense :facepalm:. That you feel the need to blame me for how you feel is quite honestly not taking responsibility for yourself. Hence you misinterpret what I mean with your subjective interpretation. Deeply flawed reasoning and logic at best. You might want to practice what you preach. That's not an attack, just an objective observation given the evidence I've seen thus far.

I mean a dispute with discussion, not just a 'you're wrong cos I don't like it' dispute; use your words, show me how I am wrong.

Interestingly enough, the summary is just that, you are the one attaching negative connotation and roadblocks to it.

Oh look, now word semantics, still being reminded of a certain individual... A very narcissistic trait that one.

mashman

12th October 2014, 09:41

Sometimes.

More often I use materials others have made, materials paid for at the agreed price rather than what they or you or some committee decide, (whichever is the prevailing fantasy of the week).

Makes your initial statement a bit silly then dunnit.

Cooperation works. You don't think the boards or committees that currently exist can be thought of as the exact same boards or committees that I'm fantasizing about? Then I suggest you think again.

mashman

12th October 2014, 09:49

I mean a dispute with discussion, not just a 'you're wrong cos I don't like it' dispute; use your words, show me how I am wrong.

Interestingly enough, the summary is just that, you are the one attaching negative connotation and roadblocks to it.

Oh look, now word semantics, still being reminded of a certain individual... A very narcissistic trait that one.

Ugh. I can't show you anything that you choose not to see. Blatantly obvious.

I'm attaching nothing as I have offered alternatives. You're the one with status quo thumb up the butt syndrome.

I'm not trying to compete with you on any level. So not twisting anything. I always thought it to be denial, but given that you went for narcissism, I'd say that you telling me that you know what I mean better than I know what I mean is strong evidence to support a position that you are projecting. You're fighting an ego that is of your own making.

bogan

12th October 2014, 09:54

Ugh. I can't show you anything that you choose not to see. Blatantly obvious.

I'm attaching nothing as I have offered alternatives. You're the one with status quo thumb up the butt syndrome.

I'm not trying to compete with you on any level. So not twisting anything. I always thought it to be denial, but given that you went for narcissism, I'd say that you telling me that you know what I mean better than I know what I mean is strong evidence to support a position that you are projecting. You're fighting an ego that is of your own making.

Awfully narcissistic focus on the people instead of the content there mashy. Perhaps you need a reminder of the discussion topic:

Path to utopia A; human productivity and production automation reaches levels in which we have no unfulfilled needs and few unfulfilled wants, ownership of property (including intellectual) becomes far less of an issue at this tipping point, and the subsequent sharing assures utopian like existence with regard to resource management.
Change Level: individual.
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others.
Examples: TVP, charitable individuals, etc

Path B; remove money, retain personal ownership, work as much or little as you feel, resource allocation based supplier whims (kickbacks, sexual favors, mates deals etc).
Change level: society wide (minority forced into this system when a majority votes for it), and some extra-society changes
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

mashman

12th October 2014, 10:04

Awfully narcissistic focus on the people instead of the content there mashy. Perhaps you need a reminder of the discussion topic:

Path to utopia A; human productivity and production automation reaches levels in which we have no unfulfilled needs and few unfulfilled wants, ownership of property (including intellectual) becomes far less of an issue at this tipping point, and the subsequent sharing assures utopian like existence with regard to resource management.
Change Level: individual.
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others.
Examples: TVP, charitable individuals, etc

Path B; remove money, retain personal ownership, work as much or little as you feel, resource allocation based supplier whims (kickbacks, sexual favors, mates deals etc).
Change level: society wide (minority forced into this system when a majority votes for it), and some extra-society changes
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa...

http://davidlelong.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/http_www_challengefuture_org_static_upload_uploads _Screen_shot_2012_03_30_at_11_44_14_AM_uhyusa.png

Ocean1

12th October 2014, 11:20

Makes your initial statement a bit silly then dunnit.

Cooperation works. You don't think the boards or committees that currently exist can be thought of as the exact same boards or committees that I'm fantasizing about? Then I suggest you think again.

Only in your head.

No, I don't. Current boards and most committees don't decide both supply and purchase sides of the equation. Those that do, (local authorities foe example) are universally despised for supplying very little for their compusary costs.

I'd point you at some research about provider driven markets again but if you bothered looking last time you certainly weren't capable of seeing.

mashman

12th October 2014, 11:39

Brand and Baldwin on Keiser

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_gL5hgSmQg#t=32

mashman

12th October 2014, 11:51

Only in your head.

No, I don't. Current boards and most committees don't decide both supply and purchase sides of the equation. Those that do, (local authorities foe example) are universally despised for supplying very little for their compusary costs.

I'd point you at some research about provider driven markets again but if you bothered looking last time you certainly weren't capable of seeing.

Could well be the case.

So, any strategy to maximise return doesn't decide acceptable margins for trade? How do they project trends?

bogan

12th October 2014, 17:34

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa...

http://davidlelong.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/http_www_challengefuture_org_static_upload_uploads _Screen_shot_2012_03_30_at_11_44_14_AM_uhyusa.png

Takes a special kind of stupid to argue somebody is wrong cos they know too much...

mashman

12th October 2014, 18:29

Takes a special kind of stupid to argue somebody is wrong cos they know too much...

:killingme... bit narcissistic there.

Ocean1

12th October 2014, 18:55

So, any strategy to maximise return doesn't decide acceptable margins for trade?

Only in a provider driven market.

For fucks sake do some reading, you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. You have to do the comprehend thing also, couple of years of your spare time might do it, see you then.

bogan

12th October 2014, 19:06

:killingme... bit narcissistic there.

Bit deluded there. Anyway, I added a third path, see if you can guess what it is!

Path to utopia A; human productivity and production automation reaches levels in which we have no unfulfilled needs and few unfulfilled wants, ownership of property (including intellectual) becomes far less of an issue at this tipping point, and the subsequent sharing assures utopian like existence with regard to resource management.
Change Level: individual.
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others.
Examples: TVP, charitable individuals, etc

Path B; remove money, retain personal ownership, work as much or little as you feel, resource allocation based supplier whims (kickbacks, sexual favors, mates deals etc).
Change level: society wide (minority forced into this system when a majority votes for it), and some extra-society changes
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

Path C; remove money, remove personal personal ownership, work as much as required to ensure adequate production while relying heavily on open source and automation, resource allocation based on filling all primary needs then allotting luxuries equally as available. Govt/management to ensure work output, and fair allotment of luxuries.
Change level: society wide (minority forced into this system when a majority votes for it), and some extra-society changes
Cost of change level: extremely high for some individuals (wealthiest), low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: Sounds historically familiar in some aspects...

mashman

12th October 2014, 19:37

Only in a provider driven market.

For fucks sake do some reading, you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. You have to do the comprehend thing also, couple of years of your spare time might do it, see you then.

I have no need to know these things.

mashman

12th October 2014, 19:38

Bit deluded there. Anyway, I added a third path, see if you can guess what it is!

Path to utopia A; human productivity and production automation reaches levels in which we have no unfulfilled needs and few unfulfilled wants, ownership of property (including intellectual) becomes far less of an issue at this tipping point, and the subsequent sharing assures utopian like existence with regard to resource management.
Change Level: individual.
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others.
Examples: TVP, charitable individuals, etc

Path B; remove money, retain personal ownership, work as much or little as you feel, resource allocation based supplier whims (kickbacks, sexual favors, mates deals etc).
Change level: society wide (minority forced into this system when a majority votes for it), and some extra-society changes
Cost of change level: high for some individuals, low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: None

Path C; remove money, remove personal personal ownership, work as much as required to ensure adequate production while relying heavily on open source and automation, resource allocation based on filling all primary needs then allotting luxuries equally as available. Govt/management to ensure work output, and fair allotment of luxuries.
Change level: society wide (minority forced into this system when a majority votes for it), and some extra-society changes
Cost of change level: extremely high for some individuals (wealthiest), low for others, massive for society as whole.
Examples: Sounds historically familiar in some aspects...

I'd have to care first.

Brian d marge

12th October 2014, 19:39