Stupid World

[mashman]

My claims?

Where did I "claim" anything?
I merely replied to your post and asked if you had any idea what you speaking of.

You are currently engaged in the internet equivalent of standing on your own tongue...

Well you must know the subject to be able to decide that I don't.

[Oscar]

Well you must know the subject to be able to decide that I don't.

I am quite familiar with the subject.
However, you're the one that posted about it, so let's hear you take on it..

[mashman]

I am quite familiar with the subject.
However, you're the one that posted about it, so let's hear you take on it..

You did. You didn't like it. Wahhhhhh.

[Oscar]

You did. You didn't like it. Wahhhhhh.

Because, as usual, it was wafer thin intellectually, witless and childish.
You have no idea what they were, but you were outraged because there might be six of them.
Waaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[mashman]

Because, as usual, it was wafer thin intellectually, witless and childish.
You have no idea what they were, but you were outraged because there might be six of them.
Waaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

So as you're in the know, let's hear what you know.

[Oscar]

So as you're in the know, let's hear what you know.

You brought the subject up - you start..

[mashman]

You brought the subject up - you start..

Believing that commerce will be reigned in by rules and regulation is like hoping that the guy who's head you just shot off with a 12 guage is still going to be ok. It's all based on assumption. A bit unfair maybe, let's call it an educated guess. Why was the Productivity Commission setup? Your turn.

[Oscar]

Believing that commerce will be reigned in by rules and regulation is like hoping that the guy who's head you just shot off with a 12 guage is still going to be ok. It's all based on assumption. A bit unfair maybe, let's call it an educated guess. Why was the Productivity Commission setup? Your turn.

Even a cursory glance at this thread would lead one to conclude that you lack the singular prerequisite involved in making an educated guess.

[mashman]

Even a cursory glance at this thread would lead one to conclude that you lack the singular prerequisite involved in making an educated guess.

:yawn: sdf'ojIJssflkj

[blue rider]

A further 1000 sole parents and 1000 people with mental health problems will be handed over to contractors who will be paid from $2250 to $16,500 for each person they place in employment for at least a year

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10898243

[mashman]

Stop being such a bunch of soft cocks and suck it up. It was your job. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23259865)

[Oscar]

Stop being such a bunch of soft cocks and suck it up. It was your job. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23259865)

You're taking the piss out of soldiers who commit suicide?
Really?


You are low, real scum.

[mashman]

You're taking the piss out of soldiers who commit suicide?
Really?


You are low, real scum.

Is that what I was doing?

[blue rider]

just another good read...
http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/07/12/the-prohibition-of-marijuana-in-three-acts/

[Scuba_Steve]

You're taking the piss out of soldiers who commit suicide?
Really?


You are low, real scum.

What, as against the corrupt Govts that send these soldiers to a "war" they should never be involved in, forcing them to terrorise foreign countries for oil in turn bringing the soldiers to question the morals of it all & ending their own lives when their conscious catches up with them due to the acts they committed all in the name of big money.
They are not fighting for their country, freedom, or human rights. They are fighting a corporate war & maybee that takes a toll on their conscious once they realise the truth

[Oscar]

What, as against the corrupt Govts that send these soldiers to a "war" they should never be involved in, forcing them to terrorise foreign countries for oil in turn bringing the soldiers to question the morals of it all & ending their own lives when their conscious catches up with them due to the acts they committed all in the name of big money.
They are not fighting for their country, freedom, or human rights. They are fighting a corporate war & maybee that takes a toll on their conscious once they realise the truth

You have no idea what they're fighting for, anymore than I can understand why you spout this vitriol.
Does it help you to spout that propaganda?
Does your belief in the existence of "big money" and "Corrupt Govts" help you cope with the gnawing realisation that you are in fact quite stupid and insignificant?

[Scuba_Steve]

You have no idea what they're fighting for, anymore than I can understand why you spout this vitriol.
Does it help you to spout that propaganda?
Does your belief in the existence of "big money" and "Corrupt Govts" help you cope with the gnawing realisation that you are in fact quite stupid and insignificant?

You're an angry little man ain't you? small penis syndrome maybee? They have surgery for that you know, or sports cars choice is yours really

[Oscar]

You're an angry little man ain't you? small penis syndrome maybee? They have surgery for that you know, or sports cars choice is yours really

Nuthin' little about me, pal.

You just go about your day, making up for your own shortcomings by talking big on the interweb.
Maybe one of the idjuts here will agree with you.

But, here's a question for you.
Being as how most of these poor bastids whose graves you're dancing on served in Afghanistan, could you tell me about the oil there?
What is the corporate interest in Kabul?
Maybe you could enlighten us on the benefits of Taliban Govt and Sharia Law?

[Scuba_Steve]

But, here's a question for you.
Being as how most of these poor bastids whose graves you're dancing on served in Afghanistan, could you tell me about the oil there?
What is the corporate interest in Kabul?
Maybe you could enlighten us on the benefits of Taliban Govt and Sharia Law?

I ain't dancing on no-ones graves & I definitely didn't put them there.
As for oil apologies that was Iraq, Afghanistan has the minerals; Iron, copper, gold, lithium etc

[gwigs]

You have no idea what they're fighting for, anymore than I can understand why you spout this vitriol.
Does it help you to spout that propaganda?
Does your belief in the existence of "big money" and "Corrupt Govts" help you cope with the gnawing realisation that you are in fact quite stupid and insignificant?

What are they fighting for then ? Do you know ?..
Please tell us Idjuts...

[Oscar]

What are they fighting for then ? Do you know ?..
Please tell us Idjuts...

No I don't, and I don't know why they killed themselves either.
I do know that guys who join the army tend to be young, poor and undereducated.

[Oscar]

I ain't dancing on no-ones graves & I definitely didn't put them there.
As for oil apologies that was Iraq, Afghanistan has the minerals; Iron, copper, gold, lithium etc

Geo-politics is a cartoon to you, isn't it?
Good guys and bad guys, good and evil.

Maybe when you grow up, you'll understand...

[puddytat]

No I don't, and I don't know why they killed themselves either.
I do know that guys who join the army tend to be young, poor and undereducated.

Finally...... a statement worth commenting on, in only that its a comment that contains no abuse.

You should read SPs link .

[mashman]

Long-term unemployment hits 17-year high (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/long-term-unemployment-hits-17-year-high-100647523.html)... no great surprises there... although the knock on effects are causing the pension creators to worry.

Number of people paying into a pension hits 60-year low (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/number-people-paying-pension-hits-142607141.html)... so much for choices in life.

[carbonhed]

Long-term unemployment hits 17-year high (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/long-term-unemployment-hits-17-year-high-100647523.html)... no great surprises there... although the knock on effects are causing the pension creators to worry.

Number of people paying into a pension hits 60-year low (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/number-people-paying-pension-hits-142607141.html)... so much for choices in life.

And I'm sure your shell suited whanau back in the UK give a shit.

[mashman]

And I'm sure your shell suited whanau back in the UK give a shit.

They'll be stoked... the oldys'll move slower and be easier to take from. Less likelihood of aggressive protective homeowners when house breaking. The list is almost endless.

[mashman]

Damn that's confusing (http://opencorporates.com/viz/financial/)

[mashman]

Social services for vulnerable children in England to be privatised (http://m.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/18/social-services-children-privatised-labour#comments)... hmmmmmmmmmmm

[Oscar]

Social services for vulnerable children in England to be privatised (http://m.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/jul/18/social-services-children-privatised-labour#comments)... hmmmmmmmmmmm

Why don't you post this on www.UKweirdos.co.uk ?
Or do you post shit from NZ over there?

[avgas]

Maybe you could enlighten us on the benefits of Taliban Govt and Sharia Law?
You know where you stand :buggerd:

[puddytat]

Kiwi as bro...

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/19/who-rules-ya-baby-thoughts-on-nick-caters-new-ruling-class/

[blue rider]

much fun is to be had on this site

http://opencorporates.com/viz/financial/index.html#morganstanley

interesting play

[Ocean1]

Kiwi as bro...

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/07/19/who-rules-ya-baby-thoughts-on-nick-caters-new-ruling-class/

So we're to understand that a socialist academic doesn't much like Nick Cater's ideas about who to blame for the shape of current policy?

Hardly surprising.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yep the world has officially gone to shit!
Retro fitting North Korean style interwebs censorship is coming along nicely

The UK's gone too far with this one! (http://rt.com/news/cameron-pornography-uk-ban-416/)
Blocking interwebs porn (a staple & basic right of teh interwebs) unless you specifically opt to have it allowed

[puddytat]

There's a wannabe govenor of some state in good ole Yankland who's campaigning on making it illegal to indulge in anal or oral sex...wanking will be next. Oh also abortion of course.

[Ocean1]

There's a wannabe govenor of some state in good ole Yankland who's campaigning on making it illegal to indulge in anal or oral sex...

Hate to break the bad news for you dude...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_states_are_Anal_sex_illegal_in

[mashman]

A couple of articles highlighting the stupidity of using money as a way to "manage" resource usage and production.

Peak oil lives, but will kill the economy (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/earth-insight/2013/jul/23/peak-oil-bbc-shale-fracking-economy-recession?CMP=twt_fd)

Economists forecast the end of growth (http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/earth-insight/2013/jul/19/economy-end-growth-resource-scarcity-costs?CMP=twt_gu)

At some point the penny has to drop as to what the problem really is and why we aren't leaping forwards to meet the challenges that have been waiting to be addressed for generations.

[Ocean1]

A couple of articles highlighting the stupidity of using money as a way to "manage" resource usage and production.

No they don't. They highlight the historical importance of cheap energy to economic growth.


At some point the penny has to drop as to what the problem really is and why we aren't leaping forwards to meet the challenges that have been waiting to be addressed for generations.

The problem isn't money, cookie boy. Economic growth peaked four decades ago because that generation grew up with an intimate understanding of the relationship between productive effort and economic reward and first hand experience of hard economic times. They didn't put their feet up when the innovations of post war industry grew the earnings from their efforts year after year.

Unfortunately the technology and a rampant social welfare system taught their kids that they didn't have to work. And economic growth has been shrinking ever since.

[mashman]

No they don't. They highlight the historical importance of cheap energy to economic growth.

That's all huh.



The problem isn't money, cookie boy. Economic growth peaked four decades ago because that generation grew up with an intimate understanding of the relationship between productive effort and economic reward and first hand experience of hard economic times. They didn't put their feet up when the innovations of post war industry grew the earnings from their efforts year after year.

Unfortunately the technology and a rampant social welfare system taught their kids that they didn't have to work. And economic growth has been shrinking ever since.

Of course the problem is money. "The era of cheap oil is over". Money! No money = just oil and a decision to be made as to where to focus it's energy for the benefit of all.

"The increasing dependence on more expensive unconventional sources with lower EROI has a fundamentally negative economic impact from which there is no easy escape.". Negative economic impact, not because there's a lack of oil, but because it eventually stops returning a profit.

"Both solar and wind power are likely to be cheaper than coal... once the capital is found and the project is built, a wind or solar farm delivers far cheaper energy than a coal-fired utility plant, at around one-third of the marginal cost of coal." Capital required to implement much needed technology and give us some breathing space in regards to supply/demand for oil. How do you get enough money when the economy is circling the drain and the end of growth has been put forwards as our future?

Money money money... it's all money, nothing can happen without it, yet it doesn't build a rig/solar panel/wind turbine etc... but it prevents them from being built. Roses. Smell 'em.

[Ocean1]

That's all huh.

Yes. Compared to your synopsis it's a model of succinct accuracy.


Of course the problem is money. "The era of cheap oil is over". Money! No money = just oil and a decision to be made as to where to focus it's energy for the benefit of all.

"The increasing dependence on more expensive unconventional sources with lower EROI has a fundamentally negative economic impact from which there is no easy escape.". Negative economic impact, not because there's a lack of oil, but because it eventually stops returning a profit.

"Both solar and wind power are likely to be cheaper than coal... once the capital is found and the project is built, a wind or solar farm delivers far cheaper energy than a coal-fired utility plant, at around one-third of the marginal cost of coal." Capital required to implement much needed technology and give us some breathing space in regards to supply/demand for oil. How do you get enough money when the economy is circling the drain and the end of growth has been put forwards as our future?

The era of cheap oil was over two decades ago and yet people seem to have managed to find ways to use oil to make a profit, at no stage has world production declined. Ever. And I'm pretty sure that in spite of your vague intimations to the contrary people don't blow their savings on shit to no advantage whatsoever.

As for the claimed cost benefits of solar and wind power, do you think someone's hiding the fact that they really produce cheaper energy, and that all we've got to do is make with thousands of windmills? Solar might. At the equator. We're a fair way from that y'know. Wind might be, here. But it'll never amount to more than 20% of demand on a good day.


Money money money... it's all money, nothing can happen without it, yet it doesn't build a rig/solar panel/wind turbine etc... but it prevents them from being built. Roses. Smell 'em.

Make up your fucking mind, one minute you're bleating because your favourite projects can't get enough money and the next money's the single thing preventing them happening. Why don't you just admit that you know fuck all about resource economics, that you get yer rocks of by bitching and moaning about pretty much everything and you don't mind skimming over a few facts to do so?

[mashman]

Yes. Compared to your synopsis it's a model of succinct accuracy.

:rofl:



The era of cheap oil was over two decades ago and yet people seem to have managed to find ways to use oil to make a profit, at no stage has world production declined. Ever. And I'm pretty sure that in spite of your vague intimations to the contrary people don't blow their savings on shit to no advantage whatsoever.

As for the claimed cost benefits of solar and wind power, do you think someone's hiding the fact that they really produce cheaper energy, and that all we've got to do is make with thousands of windmills? Solar might. At the equator. We're a fair way from that y'know. Wind might be, here. But it'll never amount to more than 20% of demand on a good day.

Despite the analysts saying otherwise?

Even though the dude in the article stated that they would produce cheaper energy your saying that they don't? They're pretty much one off costs, you don't have to keep filling them with fuel. As a combination and in sufficient enough numbers I do wonder how much water, wind and solar energy would be produced. I'm not saying that they're complete replacements, but there are a fuckload of electricity intensive operations that we could drop (like financial record/spy data servers) that would also help lighten the load.



Make up your fucking mind, one minute you're bleating because your favourite projects can't get enough money and the next money's the single thing preventing them happening. Why don't you just admit that you know fuck all about resource economics, that you get yer rocks of by bitching and moaning about pretty much everything and you don't mind skimming over a few facts to do so?

:laugh: Both statements are true. They can't get enough get enough money which is preventing them from being a much larger source of power. There can be no other alternative for my fighting the fight eh? :facepalm:

[avgas]

There's a wannabe govenor of some state in good ole Yankland who's campaigning on making it illegal to indulge in anal or oral sex...wanking will be next. Oh also abortion of course.
Nah you got it wrong. He just hates the taste of shit.

[Scuba_Steve]

Nah you got it wrong. He just hates the taste of shit.

Then you have to question why he'd go for a position where it constantly comes from his mouth :wacko:

[mashman]

Huge methane belch in Arctic could cost $60 trillion (http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23923-huge-methane-belch-in-arctic-could-cost-60-trillion.html#.UfDNcW0WmmB)... the absolute epitome of everything that is wrong with the world today. A natural disaster means that people will suffer financially. Such fuckin stupidity.

[mashman]

Bulgaria parliament siege escalates political crisis (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/24/us-bulgaria-protests-blockade-idUSBRE96N0G320130724?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&dlvrit=992637)... what do you mean you want us to quit? bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa. Fuckin dickheads.

[blue rider]

and in other news the North Pole is a lake


http://on.aol.com/video/north-pole-webcam-time-lapse-517870128



radiation from fukushima still leaking (as if it ever stopped)

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/07/25-0


and the us of a won't torture (we say so)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-tells-russia-we-wont-torture-edward-snowden-if-he-is-extradited-home-8734490.html

[mashman]

Activist ‘Shocked’ At Conviction For Yelling At David Cameron (http://welfarenewsservice.com/activist-shocked-at-conviction-for-yelling-at-david-cameron/#.UfNNIG0WmmA)... Dear GCSB, please pass the following message on to Cameron. Cameron, you're an indecent Cunt.

[mashman]

In the land of the free and the home of surveillance, space research, weapons manufacture, brave... 4 in 5 in US face near-poverty, no work (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-4-5-us-face-175906005.html). The content keeps the good ole black and white divide alive. I thought we were people? Still, I guess 2 demographics are better than 1 as it makes the figures look less bleak.

[blue rider]

for mashman, you might enjoy this

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/the-charitable-industrial-complex.html?hp&_r=3&



ecause of who my father is, I’ve been able to occupy some seats I never expected to sit in. Inside any important philanthropy meeting, you witness heads of state meeting with investment managers and corporate leaders. All are searching for answers with their right hand to problems that others in the room have created with their left. There are plenty of statistics that tell us that inequality is continually rising. At the same time, according to the Urban Institute, the nonprofit sector has been steadily growing. Between 2001 and 2011, the number of nonprofits increased 25 percent. Their growth rate now exceeds that of both the business and government sectors. It’s a massive business, with approximately $316 billion given away in 2012 in the United States alone and more than 9.4 million employed.


As more lives and communities are destroyed by the system that creates vast amounts of wealth for the few, the more heroic it sounds to “give back.” It’s what I would call “conscience laundering” — feeling better about accumulating more than any one person could possibly need to live on by sprinkling a little around as an act of charity.

But this just keeps the existing structure of inequality in place. The rich sleep better at night, while others get just enough to keep the pot from boiling over.


I’m really not calling for an end to capitalism; I’m calling for humanism.


blah blah blah ..........:girlfight:

[mashman]

for mashman, you might enjoy this

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/the-charitable-industrial-complex.html?hp&_r=3&

blah blah blah ..........:girlfight:

Thanks for that BR. I'm glad someone else grasps why I dislike the idea of charity. Perhaps he'll bankroll a little idea that I have to find out if NZ is ready for trying something different.

[Brian d marge]

Ive just lost my wallet

twice no in as many months , caused by stress due to employment ( too much fking work , half of which doesnt pay)

NOW I have to deal with

the Japanese driving centre

the Japanese bank system ...


Right about now I feel like getting hell drunk , climbing onto my push bike and going to china and not coming bank until the nasty men have gone


Stephen

[blue rider]

blah blah blah life happens..................................


Right about now I feel like getting hell drunk , climbing onto my push bike and going to china and not coming bank until the nasty men have gone


Stephen



this.......
:clap:

[Brian d marge]

this.......
:clap:
you haven't dealt with Japanese banks .....any-time you read about another crazy , going troppo in America ,,,,,

usually he/or she has just tried to open an account at Mizoho bank Japan.... there was even a BBC doco on how pissed of Bankers themselves are pissed off with dealing with banks

Stephen

[jonbuoy]

you haven't dealt with Japanese banks .....any-time you read about another crazy , going troppo in America ,,,,,
usually he/or she has just tried to open an account at Mizoho bank Japan.... there was even a BBC doco on how pissed of Bankers themselves are pissed off with dealing with banks

Stephen

People might bitch and moan about NZ but its one of the easiest countries I've ever been to for "getting things done" - change of car ownership, insurance, tax, banking even immigration were generally a pleasure to deal with. Minimal red tape and most people you get to deal with have some common sense about them.

[unstuck]

You cannot make positive change, with a negative attitude.:bleh: http://www.globalgoodnews.com/

[mashman]

Spain Introduces Sunlight Tax (http://barnabyisright.com/2013/07/28/spain-introduces-sunlight-tax/)... and Amen George.

[blue rider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

:sunny:

[Banditbandit]

A 'Merikan nightmare more likely

http://otpglobal.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/american-nightmare.png

[Oscar]

A 'Merikan nightmare more likely



Interesting.

In November 2012 the U.S. Census Bureau said more than 16% of the population lived in poverty in the United States.
The UN says that 17% of the US population live below 50% of the median income.

[scumdog]

No wonder wages are stagnant - they're having to compete with El China with its 3 cents an hour wage structure.
Makes it cheap to get things made.

So nobody buys stuff made by workers getting a decent wage cos their stuff costs too much innit...

[Brian d marge]

Interesting.

In November 2012 the U.S. Census Bureau said more than 16% of the population lived in poverty in the United States.
The UN says that 17% of the US population live below 50% of the median income.

fk me an actual fact from Oscar ,,,, stop the world I want to get off

Snip from the US census dept ;
http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/acsbr11-01.pdf




No wonder wages are stagnant - they're having to compete with El China with its 3 cents an hour wage structure.
Makes it cheap to get things made.

So nobody buys stuff made by workers getting a decent wage cos their stuff costs too much innit...

your making the link ...about now ya realising something aint right .......

Stephen

[mashman]

No wonder wages are stagnant - they're having to compete with El China with its 3 cents an hour wage structure.
Makes it cheap to get things made.

So nobody buys stuff made by workers getting a decent wage cos their stuff costs too much innit...

If that's what you're concerned about, then I'm afraid I've got some bad news for ya. SPOILER ALERT: It's going to get much worse. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1130576123#post1130576123)... according to James Wolfensohn former president of the world bank.

[Brian d marge]

If that's what you're concerned about, then I'm afraid I've got some bad news for ya. SPOILER ALERT: It's going to get much worse. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1130576123#post1130576123)... according to James Wolfensohn former president of the world bank.

this ones better :niceone:

He does make some good points

Stephen

bollox just notice link didnt show ......hang on

http://<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/R78aM7-5LoA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> (http://<iframe width=&quot;560&quot; height=&quot;315&quot; src=&quot;//www.youtube.com/embed/R78aM7-5LoA&quot; frameborder=&quot;0&quot; allowfullscreen></iframe>)

[mashman]

this ones better :niceone:

He does make some good points

Stephen

Thing is though, even through my not giving a shit years I could see this on the cards. Moving production offshore to somewhere cheaper is only going to do 1 thing to "rich" country's that having nothing to offer in return. It ain't really a new thing is it? It's been at least 30 years in the making.

[scumdog]

If that's what you're concerned about, then I'm afraid I've got some bad news for ya. SPOILER ALERT: It's going to get much worse. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1130576123#post1130576123)... according to James Wolfensohn former president of the world bank.

Don't worry - I already know that.

I guess one day (maybe not in my lifetime) the Chinese et al workers will realise they could be paid more and after the dust and blood has settled there will be no cheap-from-China goods anymore.

The stuff made in the West might be cheaper - but the workers there might not be so happy.

And so it it goes...

[mashman]

Don't worry - I already know that.

I guess one day (maybe not in my lifetime) the Chinese et al workers will realise they could be paid more and after the dust and blood has settled there will be no cheap-from-China goods anymore.

The stuff made in the West might be cheaper - but the workers there might not be so happy.

And so it it goes...

So the historians have said. Doesn't have to be that way though.

[Ocean1]

So the historians have said. Doesn't have to be that way though.

Sure it does. If you didn't want it that way you wouldn't have bought that big fuckoff LED TV for a few bucks, you would've paid the $4k required to keep a western assembly line paid.

[avgas]

Don't worry - I already know that.

I guess one day (maybe not in my lifetime) the Chinese et al workers will realise they could be paid more and after the dust and blood has settled there will be no cheap-from-China goods anymore.

The stuff made in the West might be cheaper - but the workers there might not be so happy.

And so it it goes...
Read somewhere the average worker wage in China is now US$16,000

That is probably getting close to minimum wage US now.

[mashman]

Sure it does. If you didn't want it that way you wouldn't have bought that big fuckoff LED TV for a few bucks, you would've paid the $4k required to keep a western assembly line paid.

I haven't blown up any buildings either. Or murdered those I consider to be responsible for our current predicament. It's only a TV.

[mashman]

Read somewhere the average worker wage in China is now US$16,000

That is probably getting close to minimum wage US now.

I love average wage calculations... they offer so much hope where the reality is startlingly different... but hey.

[Ocean1]

I haven't blown up any buildings either. Or murdered those I consider to be responsible for our current predicament. It's only a TV.

But you are responsible for the current predicament, you only want to pay for the third world wages that make your shit but you expect to live in the first world.

But it's all someone else's fault, eh?

Anybody but you.

[avgas]

I can't find the original iceland post. I know its on the forums here somewhere.
But here is an interesting argument
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/xt4Z3rm4r-4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

But you are responsible for the current predicament, you only want to pay for the third world wages that make your shit but you expect to live in the first world.

But it's all someone else's fault, eh?

Anybody but you.

I am responsible for many things, however the prices that people charge is not one of them remember.

Primarily, yes.

Oh no, I take my share of the blame. Do you?

[avgas]

I love average wage calculations... they offer so much hope where the reality is startlingly different... but hey.
As do I - but seeing as both countries would fudge their calcs it did shock me that the 2 numbers were getting closer. I doubt china could lie any harder......does that mean that the US is getting honest?

[mashman]

I can't find the original iceland post. I know its on the forums here somewhere.
But here is an interesting argument

With debt forgiven there's instantly more money in the economy as people have money to spend... especially when it's the govt that's printing low interest/debt free money (that I can't find an answer to) the money. Hardly surprising there was a turn around. And good on them for doing it.

Still though, if they had have gone further and gotten their heads around getting rid of money, they may have made more of an impression on the world stage and they would have had exactly the same result.

[mashman]

As do I - but seeing as both countries would fudge their calcs it did shock me that the 2 numbers were getting closer. I doubt china could lie any harder......does that mean that the US is getting honest?

:rofl:... I saw an article the other day talking about artificial GDP inflators the other day. I was wondering how much of that was bank profit and salary rises for the management crowd as opposed to on the shop floor. I would imagine the higher unemployment in the US has something to do with it too. Wonder what the mean salary is?

[Ocean1]

I am responsible for many things, however the prices that people charge is not one of them remember.

Ah yes, the prices "people" charge.

So it's not really you buying those third world jobs, not really your fault.

If you were just a tad more intelligent your hypocrisy would worry you.

[mashman]

Ah yes, the prices "people" charge.

So it's not really you buying those third world jobs, not really your fault.

If you were just a tad more intelligent your hypocrisy would worry you.

As I said



Oh no, I take my share of the blame. Do you?


My "hypocrisy" levels are noted whenever I post... so just molto brainy it is. You still didn't answer the question though... however with your entitlement complex, that's hardly surprising.

[mashman]

this ones better :niceone:

He does make some good points

Stephen

bollox just notice link didnt show ......hang on

Jesse Ventura

He does make some damned fine points and yet, as he says, no one is held accountable for the really rather nasty shit they put people in a foreign country through... let alone their own soldiers. I'm amazed that people vote.

[gwigs]

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/G9IH-XKQpOI?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Banking - the Greatest Scam on Earth

[jonbuoy]

Interesting.

In November 2012 the U.S. Census Bureau said more than 16% of the population lived in poverty in the United States.
The UN says that 17% of the US population live below 50% of the median income.

Who needs REAL facts figures when you have some punchy graphics and a few sound bites strung together from You Tube to make your point??

[Brian d marge]

Who needs REAL facts figures when you have some punchy graphics and a few sound bites strung together from You Tube to make your point??

the question is, is that median line enough to get by WITHIN your community , you can actually be poor in a wealthy area , and example of that would be the bushman entering a village or city , or Hollywood !

or is that median line , defined as not needing assistance?

Stephen

[Ocean1]

Oh no, I take my share of the blame.

And you're happy to accept the blame, based on your own philosophy, and yet you make no attempt whatsoever to address what you clearly see as the cause of harm to others. You're an arsehole.


Do you?

Of course. Although unlike you I don't believe "the system", and specifically "the financial system" is to blame for every fuckwit's perceived grievances. If I did I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to continue using the financial institutions that support it or the currency they deal with. And also unlike you when I do come across what I see as a genuine charitable cause I actually get off my arse and do what I can to rectify the situation.

You obviously can't be fucked.


My "hypocrisy" levels are noted whenever I post...

The conclusion you should draw from that is that you are in fact a hypocrite. It's not something most people would be proud of, but I suppose it takes all sorts.


You still didn't answer the question though... however with your entitlement complex, that's hardly surprising.

I do have an entitlement complex. I believe everyone is entitled to that which they've earned, as opposed to your tired old ranting about how everyone is entitled to whatever the fuck they want.

[Ocean1]

the question is, is that median line enough to get by WITHIN your community , you can actually be poor in a wealthy area , and example of that would be the bushman entering a village or city , or Hollywood !

or is that median line , defined as not needing assistance?

Stephen

No, the question's only relevant when you're actually seeking information. You'll read "blame the establishment" in any answer you see, so the question's completely irrelevant.

[Scuba_Steve]

Thailand deals a blow to the alternative currency Bitcoin; Worlds controlling banks seen with subtle smirk

Bitcoin ban means one less option for bribing Thai officials (http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/30/thailand-bitcoin-ban/)

[mashman]

Thailand deals a blow to the alternative currency Bitcoin; Worlds controlling banks seen with subtle smirk

Bitcoin ban means one less option for bribing Thai officials (http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/30/thailand-bitcoin-ban/)

Heh... no currency outwith that which is printed by the banks is allowed it would seem... not without their cut anyway.

[mashman]

Who needs REAL facts figures when you have some punchy graphics and a few sound bites strung together from You Tube to make your point??

So they were lies then? and you can prove it? otherwise the vid was factual.



And you're happy to accept the blame, based on your own philosophy, and yet you make no attempt whatsoever to address what you clearly see as the cause of harm to others. You're an arsehole.

My philosophy is relatively new to me and until such time as it becomes the norm, I will be seen to be a hypocrit. So yes, I take a large part of the blame for ignoring the situation for the last 30+ years of my supposed adult life. My attempt will take time, you trying to belittle and ad homininining your arse off only serves to prove that I'm heading in the righ direction. Thank you.



Of course. Although unlike you I don't believe "the system", and specifically "the financial system" is to blame for every fuckwit's perceived grievances. If I did I wouldn't be hypocritical enough to continue using the financial institutions that support it or the currency they deal with. And also unlike you when I do come across what I see as a genuine charitable cause I actually get off my arse and do what I can to rectify the situation.

You obviously can't be fucked.

Of course you don't, coz you'd have to re-evaluate everything you think you know. I know this from personal experience, but at least I'm making the effort instead of skirting around the issue and patting myself on the back and singing my own praises. You rectify nothing, in fact you perpetuate what is calledthe charitable industrial complex and do more damage than good. Perhaps Peter Buffet, son of Warren, is more your level. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/the-charitable-industrial-complex.html?hp&_r=4&

When I'm in a position to, I will act.



The conclusion you should draw from that is that you are in fact a hypocrite. It's not something most people would be proud of, but I suppose it takes all sorts.


Why should I have come to that conclusion? Because you said so? I'm not proud of the hypocrisy that I was living, so I've decided to get myself into a position where it is limited as much as possible. However that will never allay the guilt I feel for not having woken up sooner.



I do have an entitlement complex. I believe everyone is entitled to that which they've earned, as opposed to your tired old ranting about how everyone is entitled to whatever the fuck they want.


So stop bitching about the taxes that get stolen from you and the spending of other people's money, coz they're just taking what they believe they have earned and using it to subsidise those who don't have anything. Ironically, that's called charity. You believing that it's a bad thing because it breeds institutionalised bludegrs kinda smacks of hypocrisy when you decide to support a charity that probably contains members of the group you refuse to support. Do you still pay taxes even though you'd rather not? Get the fuck over yourself you hypocritical moron... oh yeah, you can't, coz you're in it for you. :tugger:

[Brian d marge]

No, the question's only relevant when you're actually seeking information. You'll read "blame the establishment" in any answer you see, so the question's completely irrelevant.

Nice try
The first part of your statement is correct , the rest is not even up to you usual standard .

and by establishment ..one means what?

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Thailand deals a blow to the alternative currency Bitcoin; Worlds controlling banks seen with subtle smirk

Bitcoin ban means one less option for bribing Thai officials (http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/30/thailand-bitcoin-ban/)

and they have succeded in banning the downloading of movies .... go the internet !!!! it roxs

Stephen

[avgas]

Big fish.

See I would really like to think that we could change the banking system and everything would be fixed. But doesn't matter where you swim. There will always be sharks, or tiny little fish that leech off you.
If we change money so that the bankers couldn't enslave us, what next? The big fish might turn something else. Organ removal or Child sales.

Paying someone my life in money might not be the best option. But better the devil you know than the one you don't. You think prisoners miss the sunlight? Fuck no! they miss not being fucked in the arse.
Take the bankers money away - they might come fuck you in the arse instead.

[mashman]

Big fish.

See I would really like to think that we could change the banking system and everything would be fixed. But doesn't matter where you swim. There will always be sharks, or tiny little fish that leech off you.
If we change money so that the bankers couldn't enslave us, what next? The big fish might turn something else. Organ removal or Child sales.

Paying someone my life in money might not be the best option. But better the devil you know than the one you don't. You think prisoners miss the sunlight? Fuck no! they miss not being fucked in the arse.
Take the bankers money away - they might come fuck you in the arse instead.

How are they going to sell children if there's no money for them to be bought with?

[jonbuoy]

So they were lies then? and you can prove it? otherwise the vid was factual.



It was a generalised comment that given a snazzy background and some cool graphics, select video footage to highlight select facts (sometimes out of context) "Internet Facts" seem to be taken more seriously - people seem to be less likely to double check figures themselves.

I´m sure were all slowly learning that we can waste our time dredging up another video or set of "internet facts" or reports or news articles opposing someone else's chosen views - but really its a total waste of our time and energy. If you care that deeply about a subject you would be far better off doing something about it in the real world.

[Brian d marge]

It was a generalised comment that given a snazzy background and some cool graphics, select video footage to highlight select facts (sometimes out of context) "Internet Facts" seem to be taken more seriously - people seem to be less likely to double check figures themselves.

I´m sure were all slowly learning that we can waste our time dredging up another video or set of "internet facts" or reports or news articles opposing someone else's chosen views - but really its a total waste of our time and energy. If you care that deeply about a subject you would be far better off doing something about it in the real world.

here are some more internet facts


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8987072/Areas-with-the-highest-rates-of-child-abuse

tis what people in the know have been saying for years, I myself have been quoting , a book about poverty in mexico

As for doing something , One person cant , but its not much effort to keep people thinking about it ...eg , KB, letters to the pollys etc

So basically as per the link , if you disenfanchise a group , they act in stange ways , ( Im not convinced its also a race thing , more of an upbringing based on circumstance )

Stephen

[mashman]

The argument for Land Value Tax (http://www.utopiantendencies.com/#/home/4575553932/Rent-seekers-Let%27s-talk-about-the-real-scroungers/5869907)... How does this solve debt? Because I can't see how it does. Sure it may make housing and to an extent goods and services cheaper and it may well indeed spur growth... I'd argue that this will change absolutely fuck all because the economic model simply does not change, only the prices of "stuff" changes. We'd still have the climate challenges to deal with, rampant demand, poverty, the 3rd world, fighting over resources etc... So what does any of that ultimately achieve? It's just more shifting of the chairs :facepalm:

[mashman]

It was a generalised comment that given a snazzy background and some cool graphics, select video footage to highlight select facts (sometimes out of context) "Internet Facts" seem to be taken more seriously - people seem to be less likely to double check figures themselves.

I´m sure were all slowly learning that we can waste our time dredging up another video or set of "internet facts" or reports or news articles opposing someone else's chosen views - but really its a total waste of our time and energy. If you care that deeply about a subject you would be far better off doing something about it in the real world.

Not everyone sits and accepts what they are told by the internet and those who dwell within. Come the day there will be a push for change and in amongst that I will be there with my push for "my" change. The above LVT or any other variation of taxation in the name of "solving" the issues of the day are utterly ignorant to the issues that we have. So you just sit there and do nothing as you obviously believe that everything is sweet.

[jonbuoy]

Not everyone sits and accepts what they are told by the internet and those who dwell within. Come the day there will be a push for change and in amongst that I will be there with my push for "my" change. The above LVT or any other variation of taxation in the name of "solving" the issues of the day are utterly ignorant to the issues that we have. So you just sit there and do nothing as you obviously believe that everything is sweet.

A generalised comment that wasn't even referring to the video it was a response to the poster on poverty levels in the USA and "Internet facts" in general which applies to both sides of any discussion . It's very hard to discuss anything logically with you as you always leap into a hyper defensive mode.

[mashman]

A generalised comment that wasn't even referring to the video it was a response to the poster on poverty levels in the USA and "Internet facts" in general which applies to both sides of any discussion . It's very hard to discuss anything logically with you as you always leap into a hyper defensive mode.

So you we weren't trying to separate "REAL" facts from "internet facts"? That wasn't the context? And then going on to call posting videos a waste of time in lieu of not having gone to the source? A source known to lie and fudge figures. So internet facts and snazzy video holds less credibility? :killingme@defensive mode. As with any fulla at the other side of the screen, you will translate what you wish how you wish to. You cite a lack of logic and throw up the comparison of REAL v Internet facts, really? The funny thing is, for all of you statistics purists, is that the numbers generally don't mean a fuckin thing, because they actually highlight an issue. That people can get bogged down by arguing the numbers shows a serious lack of logic to begin with. They internet facts DO make a point, that's the whole point.

[jonbuoy]

So you we weren't trying to separate "REAL" facts from "internet facts"? That wasn't the context? And then going on to call posting videos a waste of time in lieu of not having gone to the source? A source known to lie and fudge figures. So internet facts and snazzy video holds less credibility? :killingme@defensive mode. As with any fulla at the other side of the screen, you will translate what you wish how you wish to. You cite a lack of logic and throw up the comparison of REAL v Internet facts, really? The funny thing is, for all of you statistics purists, is that the numbers generally don't mean a fuckin thing, because they actually highlight an issue. That people can get bogged down by arguing the numbers shows a serious lack of logic to begin with. They internet facts DO make a point, that's the whole point.

Mashman eventually no one is even going to bother replying to your posts, your not interested in having a reasonable or logical discussion about anything - including it would seem questioning "facts" thrown around on the internet. I could have almost presicted your reply to my post - even down to the usual ROFL smiley. Tell me do you actually belong to any politics forums?

[mashman]

Mashman eventually no one is even going to bother replying to your posts, your not interested in having a reasonable or logical discussion about anything - including it would seem questioning "facts" thrown around on the internet. I could have almost presicted your reply to my post - even down to the usual ROFL smiley. Tell me do you actually belong to any politics forums?

:crybaby: really? no one will reply to me... oh end of days how bitter they sting. Troll fail! Not even worthy of stringing it out any further.

[mashman]

"The poisoning caused by artisanal mining from a gold rush killed at least 400 children, yet villagers still say they would rather die of lead poisoning than poverty, environmental scientist Simba Tirima told the Associated Press Friday. Villagers make 10 times as much money mining as they do from farming in an area suffering erratic rainfall because of climate change, he said." (http://news.yahoo.com/nigeria-doctors-treat-lead-poisoned-children-100739575.html)... Problem and cause in one paragraph.

[blue rider]

got to love a little animation now and then


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rxqUXqPzog


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohPgE9oDg9c

and another one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvpQu7NY420
ahhh, its a lovely day for a ride......:sunny:

[blue rider]

and this is a good read, really it is

http://www.vice.com/read/it-dont-gitmo-better-than-this-0001000-v20n8?Contentpage=-1

[blue rider]

another good read...the lament of our times

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/02/unemployed-with-a-graduate-degree/


We followed the path laid out; went to university, studied hard in a specific field, and then found out they weren’t planning on employing us. Well unless we got a degree in business administration, very well educated in managerialism or the gruesome post-managerialism of Google where the office becomes your home. They said you are free, free to choose a job already chosen for you by a cruel labor market, driven by a calculus ruling out any idea of autonomy or self-determination. We are all a statistic, a statistic of debt, a statistic of dreams torn asunder by a reality uncaring.

See, this is when you realize the point of corporations is not to employ people, but profit. There is no focus on actually employing people, instead it’s quite the reverse. Mergers for lay-offs, pay cuts for labor and a pay raise for the capitalists, and increases in stock prices on the backs of stolen pension funds. The inverted proportion between wages and profits goes on; Marx rings true a century later. And yet, they blame me for my unemployment. They say, “Well, you should have chosen a different field, one where there is employment.” And the freedom they tout means nothing here, not a damn thing! You have the freedom to choose what was already chosen for you.

So, here I go channeling Proudhon:

To be unemployed is to be demoralized, dejected, depressed, rejected, and humiliated every time an HR representative sits across from you during an interview judging, evaluating, analyzing, and objectifying you without knowing, considering, understanding, or empathizing with the fact that you are a living, breathing, talking, walking, and social human being who has needs, wants, desires, and dreams.

[avgas]

another good read...the lament of our times

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/02/unemployed-with-a-graduate-degree/
You forgot the best part..

.....I recently left graduate school after completing my MA in Sociology......

Lament my ass - when did a MA in Sociology ever get you a job?

"Sociology is the scientific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science) study (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-ology) of human social behavior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_behavior) and its origins, development, organizations, and institutions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institution).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-1) It is a social science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science) which uses various methods of empirical investigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_method)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements8-2) and critical analysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_analysis)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements4-3) to develop a body of knowledge about human social actions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_actions), social structure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure) and functions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_functionalism).

And yet this person can't figure out the hack on how to get a job. Isn't that like a mechanic who doesn't know how to work on cars? A sales guy who hates talking to people?
Your going to go far kid. :violin:

[blue rider]

You forgot the best part..


Lament my ass - when did a MA in Sociology ever get you a job?

"Sociology is the scientific (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science) study (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/-ology) of human social behavior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_behavior) and its origins, development, organizations, and institutions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institution).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-1) It is a social science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_science) which uses various methods of empirical investigation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empirical_method)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements8-2) and critical analysis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_analysis)[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociology#cite_note-Classical_Statements4-3) to develop a body of knowledge about human social actions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_actions), social structure (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_structure) and functions (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_functionalism).

And yet this person can't figure out the hack on how to get a job. Isn't that like a mechanic who doesn't know how to work on cars? A sales guy who hates talking to people?
Your going to go far kid. :violin:


how about a petition to stop teaching stuff because one can't find a job? Oh and there are many people in sales who don't like talking, pretty much anyone in retail in NZ only speaks if they have too. Really, worst service providers ever are white NZ'lers that have to work in the service industry....they can't serve coffee, nor answer emails, nor provide service....they stand and wait till they are called or can't discourage the potential customer any longer.

But unemployment is always the fault of the unemployed.....as it was said in the linked article....He should have studied something else....frying fries at MacDo maybe? :laugh:

[blue rider]

and this one....

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/02/hiding-economic-depression-with-spin/

awesome Growth


Consider for example the spin put on the “advance estimate” of the real GDP growth rate for the second quarter announced on July 31. The annual rate of 1.7 percent real GDP growth for the second quarter of 2013 was presented optimistically as an acceleration in real GDP from the first quarter’s 1.1 percent growth rate. However, the reason for the “acceleration” in growth is that the first quarter’s estimate was revised down from 1.8 percent to 1.1 percent. The second quarter GDP growth rate is also subject to revised estimates. Most likely, the final number will be lower.

printing money like there is no tomorrow


In order to support bond prices, the Fed has created 1,000 billion new dollars annually over the last several years. The supply of dollars has out grown the demand for dollars, putting the dollar’s exchange value under pressure. To protect the dollar from QE, the Fed and its dependent bullion banks have engaged in ruthless shorting of gold in order to suppress the price of gold. The rapidly rising gold price indicated falling confidence in the dollar, and the Fed feared that this lack of confidence would spread into the currency markets.

consumers not consuming, they too would love to print money


The use of foreign labor in place of US labor is beneficial to executives and shareholders in the short-run, but it is detrimental in the longer-run. The long-run effect is to destroy the US consumer market.

When jobs offshoring halted the rise in US consumer income, in order to keep the economy going the Federal Reserve substituted a growth in consumer debt for the missing growth in consumer income. For example, the housing bubble created by Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan allowed home owners to spend the inflated equity in their homes by refinancing their mortgages. The substitution of consumer debt for the missing growth in real wages and salaries is limited by the burden of debt on households. Unlike the government, American citizens cannot print the money with which to pay their bills. Once consumers were unable to take on more debt, the consumer economy ceased to expand.



blah blah blah


The scary part of the pending economic crisis occurs when the federal budget deficit widens as the economy contracts and the Fed finds itself in a situation where it cannot print yet more dollars without causing a loss in confidence in the dollar and US Treasury bonds. What does a desperate government do in such a situation? It confiscates what remains of private pensions, piles on taxes, and drives the people and the economy deeper into the ground.

[mashman]

and this is a good read, really it is

http://www.vice.com/read/it-dont-gitmo-better-than-this-0001000-v20n8?Contentpage=-1

Did someone claim that we were civilised? 166 remaining and only 20 that can be prosecuted. The military are nothing more than disgusting savages.

[mashman]

and this one....

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/02/hiding-economic-depression-with-spin/

awesome Growth

printing money like there is no tomorrow

consumers not consuming, they too would love to print money

blah blah blah

So people are the problem because they use mechanism that is the best that mankind can devise to help those people who are causing the problem :laugh:... then again, it could be that money is BAD.

[Brian d marge]

Tis the anunnaki ..there master plan is to enslave us all while they feed on our children

Stephen

[avgas]

.He should have studied something else....frying fries at MacDo maybe? :laugh:
He would have had a job then, not a masters in complaining about how he cant get one.

Tis a sad fact - people only pay you to fix their problems. If you can't fix a problem then they have no need for you.
It amazes me the people who think that because they are qualified in something they have a right to a job.
Often comes from the mouths of those who never got a job in the first place.

I see potential with someone who has an MA is Sociology in roles such as Organisational Behaviour, Team management, business analytics and PR. But its sounds like the MA isn't his problem for getting a job. It is the fact he is a dick.
I don't hire arseholes, and it may shock the unemployed out there - many people try to avoid hiring arseholes.

But no - lets pin this back on the corporate structure of the world...........because that is clearly the biggest reason why this lovely soul doesn't have a job.
And Aliens is why he cant cook dinner.
Government Tax is why he can't afford to buy cigarettes.
Oppression is why he can't talk to girls.......

[avgas]

So people are the problem because they use mechanism that is the best that mankind can devise to help those people who are causing the problem :laugh:... then again, it could be that money is BAD.
Is money good? Is money bad? No turns out neither - turns out that it is just a marketing campaign for BNZ.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2LWMN7_8DfM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

Is money good? Is money bad? No turns out neither - turns out that it is just a marketing campaign for BNZ.

No shit, really, an advert from a bank that deals in money telling people that it's what people do with money that makes it good or bad. I note that it doesn't mention anything about money being debt and that that debt is going to be landed on the shoulders of someone else or at the very least that that debt will be socialised so that everyone chips in to pay for the interest that's charged but can never be printed. Nothing like telling both sides of the story and then conveniently denying that there are more than 2 sides to the story.

Money can change everything (show images of kids that are still dying around the world)

The way you think (show torture)

Act (show family man beating a vagrant and moving them from tent city)

The way you live (show the slums of the world)

It can turn you into someone you barely know (show various protests from across the globe)

Do things you'd never do (show war and people being blown apart)

Lead you to places you never imagined you'd go (show surveillance footage from around the world)

And choices you never thought you'd make (show Nobel Peace Prize Winner Obama signing the NDAA)

Is money good or bad. It turns out to be neither. It's absolutely fuckin tragic what we get away with in its name. Sorry, I mean it's what you do with it that counts :facepalm:.

[Ocean1]

It's absolutely fuckin tragic what we get away with in its name. Sorry, I mean it's what you do with it that counts :facepalm:.

And jellybeans, don't forget the jellybeans. The whole fucking world is corrupted by the lust for jellybeans, we need to round up all that perverted confectionary and bury the shit.

Then it'll be sweetness and light all day.









No really!

[mashman]

And jellybeans, don't forget the jellybeans. The whole fucking world is corrupted by the lust for jellybeans, we need to round up all that perverted confectionary and bury the shit.

Then it'll be sweetness and light all day.

No really!

Only the black ones though... there are no white ones for a reason.

[blue rider]

interesting bit of history

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/04/1228470/-Anti-Capitalist-Meet-up-Mother-Jones-and-the-Children-s-Crusade

nice read

[blue rider]

He would have had a job then, not a masters in complaining about how he cant get one.

Tis a sad fact - people only pay you to fix their problems. If you can't fix a problem then they have no need for you.
It amazes me the people who think that because they are qualified in something they have a right to a job.
Often comes from the mouths of those who never got a job in the first place.

I see potential with someone who has an MA is Sociology in roles such as Organisational Behaviour, Team management, business analytics and PR. But its sounds like the MA isn't his problem for getting a job. It is the fact he is a dick.
I don't hire arseholes, and it may shock the unemployed out there - many people try to avoid hiring arseholes.

But no - lets pin this back on the corporate structure of the world...........because that is clearly the biggest reason why this lovely soul doesn't have a job.
And Aliens is why he cant cook dinner.
Government Tax is why he can't afford to buy cigarettes.
Oppression is why he can't talk to girls.......


:facepalm:

[blue rider]

Is this something we should worry our pretty little heads?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-japan-fukushima-panel-idUSBRE97408V20130805


The utility pumps out some 400 metric tons a day of groundwater flowing from the hills above the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant into the basements of the destroyed buildings, which mixes with highly irradiated water that is used to cool the reactors in a stable state below 100 degrees Celsius.

Tepco is trying to prevent groundwater from reaching the plant by building a "bypass" but recent spikes of radioactive elements in sea water has prompted the utility to reverse months of denials and finally admit that tainted water is reaching the sea.

tainted water....how quaint.

[blue rider]

Is money good or bad?
It's what you do with it....

http://beingsakin.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/german-children-playing-with-worthless-paper-reichsmarks.jpg

[Ocean1]

Only the black ones though... there are no white ones for a reason.

I haz white jellybeans.

The gnomes saves them for us filthy capitalists.





Would you like one?

[avgas]

Money can change everything (show images of kids that are still dying around the world)
The way you think (show torture)
Stanley Milgram proved otherwise. His experiment shows that all you require is a lab coat to tell people everything is ok and to keep torturing. What people got paid became irrelevant.
Bit of an eye opener. As raises the question - what if you were paid nothing, and got told to break the law because it was the "right thing to do" would you do it?

According to his studies the answer is yes. If someone (who appeared) more knowledgeable on the matter said it was ok. Even if it went against your own conscience.

Which raises the questions - in a protest. Who is a free thinker? Who's idea is it to break into a business? Who's idea was it to flip and burn cars?
I don't have the answers.

The wiki on his experiment is here - there is a video somewhere about it also. Well worth the watch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

[avgas]

Is this something we should worry our pretty little heads?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-japan-fukushima-panel-idUSBRE97408V20130805
tainted water....how quaint.
Yes. But on a grander scale of things......why aren't we doing better than 30 years ago? Why are we consuming more power than ever before?
My heart goes out to Masao Yoshida and the Fukushima 50........I hope their efforts weren't in vain. But suspect they only stopped the tip of an iceberg.

My grandchildren will still be paying for Fukushima. I know it, and it saddens me that their grandchildren will be paying for whatever fuckup they produce.

All for the sake of excessive consumption.

[GCSB Thought Police]

Lament my ass - when did a MA in Sociology ever get you a job?



You clearly do not know about Project Camelot. The intelligence community uses such resources as social scienists of various types.

You seem to be unaware that we employ quite a few Sociologists here. Sociologists are excellent at helping us interpret and understand data we gather.

[Brian d marge]

Yes. But on a grander scale of things......why aren't we doing better than 30 years ago? Why are we consuming more power than ever before?
My heart goes out to Masao Yoshida and the Fukushima 50........I hope their efforts weren't in vain. But suspect they only stopped the tip of an iceberg.

My grandchildren will still be paying for Fukushima. I know it, and it saddens me that their grandchildren will be paying for whatever fuckup they produce.

All for the sake of excessive consumption.

My electricity bill has gone up , 35 yen a unit..... bastards

Stephen

[mashman]

My electricity bill has gone up , 35 yen a unit..... bastards

Stephen

Don't worry about it... in 2 or three yeas you'll be able to plug your socket into a kid to listen to the wireless.

[blue rider]

Yes. But on a grander scale of things......why aren't we doing better than 30 years ago? Why are we consuming more power than ever before?
My heart goes out to Masao Yoshida and the Fukushima 50........I hope their efforts weren't in vain. But suspect they only stopped the tip of an iceberg.

My grandchildren will still be paying for Fukushima. I know it, and it saddens me that their grandchildren will be paying for whatever fuckup they produce.

All for the sake of excessive consumption.


I know, i do pity the young.

[mashman]

Stanley Milgram proved otherwise. His experiment shows that all you require is a lab coat to tell people everything is ok and to keep torturing. What people got paid became irrelevant.
Bit of an eye opener. As raises the question - what if you were paid nothing, and got told to break the law because it was the "right thing to do" would you do it?

According to his studies the answer is yes. If someone (who appeared) more knowledgeable on the matter said it was ok. Even if it went against your own conscience.

Which raises the questions - in a protest. Who is a free thinker? Who's idea is it to break into a business? Who's idea was it to flip and burn cars?
I don't have the answers.

The wiki on his experiment is here - there is a video somewhere about it also. Well worth the watch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

No doubt... people vote don't they :D

Will have a wee read later.

[mashman]

I haz white jellybeans.

The gnomes saves them for us filthy capitalists.

Would you like one?

Nope... I like mine black, like my men.


You clearly do not know about Project Camelot. The intelligence community uses such resources as social scienists of various types.

You seem to be unaware that we employ quite a few Sociologists here. Sociologists are excellent at helping us interpret and understand data we gather.

Should the highlighted be scientists, or as I would have thought more likely, zionists?

[mashman]

Fracking settlement puts permanent gag order on 7-year-old and 10-year-old (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/04/fracking-settlement-puts-permanent-gag-order-on-7-year-old-and-10-year-old/)... what a world.

Stay-at-home mums are making a lifestyle choice and can expect no help with childcare costs, says Osborne (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2384827/Stay-home-mums-making-lifestyle-choice-expect-help-childcare-costs-says-Osborne.html)... the nanny state kickin into action.

[Ocean1]

Stay-at-home mums are making a lifestyle choice and can expect no help with childcare costs, says Osborne... the nanny state kickin into action.

You're going to have to explain why a non-working parent would need commercial childcare.

And why taxpayers would fund it.

[mashman]

You're going to have to explain why a non-working parent would need commercial childcare.

And why taxpayers would fund it.

For those who have more than 1 kid. For the kid to "learn" how to socialise with other kids. To leave the little they have to pay for decent food, clothes etc... for them little growing bodies. Coz shit is fuckin expensive.

Coz it ain't all about the adults.

[blue rider]

You're going to have to explain why a non-working parent would need commercial childcare.

And why taxpayers would fund it.

Why would he?

Why don't you explain us, what your reasons are for not having a communal interest in the general welfare and education of the next generation.



non working parent :clap: = usually the Mother of the future generation, and hopefully more and more the Fathers of the future generation.

And no there is no other reason to have paid parental leave for at least 3 month, paid for and or subsidised kindergartens, free education including higher education other than to offer the best upbringing to all of the future generation. It takes a village blah blah blah

However, I really would like to see your reasoning to the opposite. I know paying taxes for services that one does not use is painful, but as a "Nation" should we not have an interest to invest in the "next" generations of adults that will run this country?

[avgas]

You clearly do not know about Project Camelot. The intelligence community uses such resources as social scienists of various types.
You seem to be unaware that we employ quite a few Sociologists here. Sociologists are excellent at helping us interpret and understand data we gather.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/5qa_xNPNz3w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[blue rider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2RLwrm82kc

[Ocean1]

For those who have more than 1 kid. For the kid to "learn" how to socialise with other kids. To leave the little they have to pay for decent food, clothes etc... for them little growing bodies. Coz shit is fuckin expensive.

Coz it ain't all about the adults.

So no real reason, then.

Wasn't that long ago "childcare" didn't exist. Children grew up none the worse for it, they learned to socialise just fine without professional oversight.

So again, in proper adult language, why would someone available 24/7 to care for their own kids need a taxpayer paid subcontractor to do it for them?

[Oscar]

Fracking settlement puts permanent gag order on 7-year-old and 10-year-old... what a world.



They accepted a lot of money and that was (allegedly) part of the settlement. They could give the money back and sing like birds.
Speaking of money, aren't you outraged they gave up their principals for 750k?

But mainly, you are giving half the story:


The company, he said, has never issued gag orders on children and “we don’t believe the [Hallowich] settlement applies to children.”

Money for principals and more half-arsed propaganda from you, what a world indeed.

[Oscar]

Why would he?

Why don't you explain us, what your reasons are for not having a communal interest in the general welfare and education of the next generation.



non working parent :clap: = usually the Mother of the future generation, and hopefully more and more the Fathers of the future generation.

And no there is no other reason to have paid parental leave for at least 3 month, paid for and or subsidised kindergartens, free education including higher education other than to offer the best upbringing to all of the future generation. It takes a village blah blah blah

However, I really would like to see your reasoning to the opposite. I know paying taxes for services that one does not use is painful, but as a "Nation" should we not have an interest to invest in the "next" generations of adults that will run this country?

The question is not about education, but about the taxpayer subsidising the stay at home parent.
Fertility has been a lifestyle choice for several generations now, so why are people who cannot/don't want to/are past child baring age expected to subsidise this activity?

[Ocean1]

Why would he?


All I'm asking for is a simple answer, compared to the usual non-stop criticism of policies from the motherland it's a doddle, shirley?



Why don't you explain us, what your reasons are for not having a communal interest in the general welfare and education of the next generation.

But I do. It is absolutely without doubt the single most important aspect of the next generation's welfare that they are wanted by their parents. Squeezing one out and dumping the responsibility for it on the local taxpayer funded daycare centre is not in the kids best interest.

Not ever.

[blue rider]

They accepted a lot of money and that was (allegedly) part of the settlement. They could give the money back and sing like birds.
Speaking of money, aren't you outraged they gave up their principals for 750k?

But mainly, you are giving half the story:



Money for principals and more half-arsed propaganda from you, what a world indeed.



you forgot

the reason for the payout:


A 10-year-old boy and his 7-year-old sister have been forbidden from discussing fracking for the rest of their lives under the terms of a court settlement with several gas companies. According to Mother Jones, representatives of Range Resources Corporation — one of the gas companies named in the settlement — confirmed in court that both the parents and children of the Hallowich family are prohibited from discussing the health issues and environmental factors that drove the family to relocate from their farm in Mount Pleasant, PA.

as per quote from the linked article


Mr. Villari: You both understand and accept that as written the settlement agreement may apply to your children’s First Amendment rights as well?
Mrs. Hallowish: Yes.
[…]
Mr. Villari: And you accept that because you, as adults and as legal guardians and parents of these children, are accepting these terms and conditions because you believe it is in the bet interests of not only them but your family?
Mr. Hallowich: Yes, and health reasons. We needed to do this in order to get them out of this situation.

The lawyer of the Company:

Later in the same hearing, attorney James Swetz, representing Range Resources, asserted that the ban should extend to the Hallowich family children, a 10-year-old son and a 7-year-old daughter.

“I guess our position is it does apply to the whole family,” Swetz said. “We would certainly enforce it.

He said, she said blah blah blah


Range spokesperson Matt Pitzarella told the Post-Gazette that Swetz’ assertion that the children should be included in the gag order is “not something we agree with.” The company, he said, has never issued gag orders on children and “we don’t believe the [Hallowich] settlement applies to children.”

Villari disputes this version of events. He told the Post-Gazette that when Swetz made his statements about the gag order, he assured the court that he “had the full authority to speak on his client’s behalf.”

The non-disclosure agreement, Swetz said in court, “extended to the minor children” and that the company would be “still insisting on the full extent of those obligations.”

[Oscar]

you forgot

the reason for the payout:



as per quote from the linked article



The lawyer of the Company:


He said, she said blah blah blah

Blah, blah, blah is right - they took the money, that makes them a part of the machine.
Either give it back or STFU.

[blue rider]

All I'm asking for is a simple answer, compared to the usual non-stop criticism of policies from the motherland it's a doddle, shirley?




But I do. It is absolutely without doubt the single most important aspect of the next generation's welfare that they are wanted by their parents. Squeezing one out and dumping the responsibility for it on the local taxpayer funded daycare centre is not in the kids best interest.

Not ever.



I just want to clarify, you are talking about all the children birthed in NZ? And you are talking about all NZ women who at some stage squeezed out one or more children and then dumped the responsiblitly on the local taxpayer?

The ones doing the squeezing and dumping are the mothers, wifes, sisters, daughters, nieces, aunties, grandmothers of New Zealand?

Yes?

Because all of these working and non working parents at least at some stage used local taxpayers to raise their children, and if it is just to go to a hospital for some safe squeezing.

I would even venture so far, that long long long ago, when ocean1 was little, his mother would have squeezed him out in a hospital, she or his father would have taken him to a doctor or dentists in case of need, that he would have gone to school and university etc. etc., and that his parents would receive a state pension for their old days.

Yes, this is what you are talking about? I do understand you correctly?

[mashman]

So no real reason, then.

Wasn't that long ago "childcare" didn't exist. Children grew up none the worse for it, they learned to socialise just fine without professional oversight.

So again, in proper adult language, why would someone available 24/7 to care for their own kids need a taxpayer paid subcontractor to do it for them?

Back in the day kids could play in the street without fear of being runover too... or could go to the park that's now a mall... or went to the playgroups that were setup by parents to share the care and supervision of the kids in a social setting... to give the parents a bit of a break from the kids and to be able to get shit done. We're not back in the day any more.

:yawn:

[mashman]

They accepted a lot of money and that was (allegedly) part of the settlement. They could give the money back and sing like birds.
Speaking of money, aren't you outraged they gave up their principals for 750k?

But mainly, you are giving half the story:

Money for principals and more half-arsed propaganda from you, what a world indeed.

Tis the kids being gagged that I take issue with.

And just in case you missed it "Later in the same hearing, attorney James Swetz, representing Range Resources, asserted that the ban should extend to the Hallowich family children, a 10-year-old son and a 7-year-old daughter."

:yawn:

[blue rider]

Back in the day kids could play in the street without fear of being runover too... or could go to the park that's now a mall... or went to the playgroups that were setup by parents to share the care and supervision of the kids in a social setting... to give the parents a bit of a break from the kids and to be able to get shit done. We're not back in the day any more.

:yawn:

childcare ca. 1912......lol

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/04/1228470/-Anti-Capitalist-Meet-up-Mother-Jones-and-the-Children-s-Crusade

[mashman]

childcare ca. 1912......lol

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/04/1228470/-Anti-Capitalist-Meet-up-Mother-Jones-and-the-Children-s-Crusade

Yeah I read that the other night, great read and can't bling you again for it... but come on, kids have it so good these days.

[Oscar]

Tis the kids being gagged that I take issue with.

And just in case you missed it "Later in the same hearing, attorney James Swetz, representing Range Resources, asserted that the ban should extend to the Hallowich family children, a 10-year-old son and a 7-year-old daughter."

:yawn:

I didn't miss it, and it's probably wishful thinking by the company brief as it infringes the kid's first amendment rights (but I realise that you will swallow any old shite as long as it's printed on the interweb).
Notwithstanding that, the parents can always give back the money..

[mashman]

I didn't miss it, and it's probably wishful thinking by the company brief as it infringes the kid's first amendment rights (but I realise that you will swallow any old shite as long as it's printed on the interweb).
Notwithstanding that, the parents can always give back the money..

Unfortunately it looks as though the parents waived those rights on the kids behalf.

:yawn:

[Oscar]

Unfortunately it looks as though the parents waived those rights on the kids behalf.

:yawn:

Not forever.
As soon as they become adults in the eyes of the law, the first amendment would kick in.
I seem to be boring you - does the truth bore you?
You're all about the headline, aren't you?

[mashman]

Not forever.
As soon as they become adults in the eyes of the law, the first amendment would kick in.
I seem to be boring you - does the truth bore you?
You're all about the headline, aren't you?

Dunno about that. Would the company be able to enforce the family gag order?
bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa... the boring bit is you waffling on about why I posted the links and I'm getting bored with having to point out that, as per usual, you are spectacularly wrong.

[Brian d marge]

Don't worry about it... in 2 or three yeas you'll be able to plug your socket into a kid to listen to the wireless.
I can already find them in the dark without turning the light on , listening to the wireless And a cup of tea in the morning

one loves technology

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

You're going to have to explain why a non-working parent would need commercial childcare.

And why taxpayers would fund it.

go and ask you mom ..

now make her work at least 25 hours ...And look after the kids full time

Stephen

ps you dont have kids do u .......

[Brian d marge]

childcare ca. 1912......lol

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/04/1228470/-Anti-Capitalist-Meet-up-Mother-Jones-and-the-Children-s-Crusade

both under similar lassie faire economic conditions

business does what business does make a profit

Stephen

[Oscar]

Dunno about that. Would the company be able to enforce the family gag order?
bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa... the boring bit is you waffling on about why I posted the links and I'm getting bored with having to point out that, as per usual, you are spectacularly wrong.

And as usual, your assertion is based on nothing at all.
You have no knowledge of what you post other than a good headline.

[mashman]

And as usual, your assertion is based on nothing at all.
You have no knowledge of what you post other than a good headline.

You get all of that from "what a world". Was it a good headline?

[unstuck]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/m5TwT69i1lU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:banana::banana::banana:

[Ocean1]

I just want to clarify, you are talking about all the children birthed in NZ?

I wasn't talking about any particular group of children, I was simply asking why a parent who's been relieved of the normal requirement to support their own family by the taxpayer should expect to have the same taxpayer pay someone to babysit their kids too.

And I've yet to see any answer at all let alone an ethically sound one.



I would even venture so far, that long long long ago, when ocean1 was little, his mother would have squeezed him out in a hospital, she or his father would have taken him to a doctor or dentists in case of need, that he would have gone to school and university etc. etc., and that his parents would receive a state pension for their old days.



go and ask you mom ..

now make her work at least 25 hours ...And look after the kids full time

Stephen

ps you dont have kids do u .......

You two crack me up. My mother left school at 13 to work in a mill to pay the bills for a large family without a hint of social welfare. She worked most of her life because that's how you give your family the best chance to NOT have to leave school at 13. At the slightest hint of any of the hugely self-centred expectations and attitudes of entitlement scattered throughout this thread she would tear you to shreds.

[Brian d marge]

I wasn't talking about any particular group of children, I was simply asking why a parent who's been relieved of the normal requirement to support their own family by the taxpayer should expect to have the same taxpayer pay someone to babysit their kids too.

And I've yet to see any answer at all let alone an ethically sound one.






You two crack me up. My mother left school at 13 to work in a mill to pay the bills for a large family without a hint of social welfare. She worked most of her life because that's how you give your family the best chance to NOT have to leave school at 13. At the slightest hint of any of the hugely self-centred expectations and attitudes of entitlement scattered throughout this thread she would tear you to shreds.
This is the 21 century ,, children stopped working the mines a few years ago

Credit to your mum , but we have realised that healthy children tend to be raised well by both parents, if your mum worked , as do most parents now , the hours must have been suitable for her to raise a child
Me I prefer to earn the money so that my wife can be a full time mother to my child
I still have plenty of quality time with my kids
This what happens in an enlightened society

As a heads up , companies give maternity leave,,,,, wonder why that is ????

Stephen

[blue rider]

blahblahblahbalhb






You two crack me up. My mother left school at 13 to work in a mill to pay the bills for a large family without a hint of social welfare. She worked most of her life because that's how you give your family the best chance to NOT have to leave school at 13. At the slightest hint of any of the hugely self-centred expectations and attitudes of entitlement scattered throughout this thread she would tear you to shreds.



so did my grandmother ,my mother, I got to stay in school till i was 15, and started working fulltime at that age.

what was your point again?

[mashman]

I wasn't talking about any particular group of children, I was simply asking why a parent who's been relieved of the normal requirement to support their own family by the taxpayer should expect to have the same taxpayer pay someone to babysit their kids too.

And I've yet to see any answer at all let alone an ethically sound one.

You two crack me up. My mother left school at 13 to work in a mill to pay the bills for a large family without a hint of social welfare. She worked most of her life because that's how you give your family the best chance to NOT have to leave school at 13. At the slightest hint of any of the hugely self-centred expectations and attitudes of entitlement scattered throughout this thread she would tear you to shreds.

Why should a working person get "relief"?

Because we're faking an attempt at being civilised and not the mercenaries of yore and kids are fuckin expensive when you don't have a wage coming in. Best interests of the child n all that.

:rofl: says Mr Entitlement himself... that's not self-centered at all... oh sorry, I forgot, you earned yours even if it is off the backs of others. Son's becoming their mothers eh. Cut the apron string bro, there's a brave new world out there full of cooperation and true progress.

[mashman]

R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company Loses $37.5 Million Battle Over Lung Cancer Victim (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/02/rj-reynolds_n_3697648.html?utm_hp_ref=tw)... hmmmm, who would benefit from removing the branding from cigs?

[mashman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YnAtHbDptj8#at=234

Interesting in ways... the crux being, banks need to work like Ocean thinks they do (sorry dude, but he calls you a naive), social credit, debt free money creation even though there will be debt coz it's good for the economy, potentially lower interest rates cos debt is managed, potential for 0% inflation, banks/govts both print money as and when it's needed but because they control the supply of money they can do what they need to do to stop the economy from taking a huge nose dive. Fuck all about jobs. Fuck all about poverty. Fuck all about how the system could be abused. Fuck all about addressing energy for the future. Fuck all about society. He should have come out of the closet and straight up pledged his love to Friedman. Bags of jargon around how the mechanism will function but absolutely no consideration for the effects on people. Growth management via printing as much money as is required. Growth is such a stupid fuckin position to be coming from in the first place that his paper should be converted to toilet paper. A sustainable financial economy coz they can print and destroy money whenever they feel like it. Why bother with money in the first place!

[unstuck]

I will be watching this, I think these people will win in the end. The times they are a changing..........sing it bob.
http://firstpeoples.org/wp/indigenous-peoples-in-belize-file-lawsuit-against-government-us-oil-company/



The Pantera song comes to mind......Dont tread on me.:Punk::Punk:

[blue rider]

... blahblahblahblha......... Why bother with money in the first place!

consider

http://enformable.com/2013/08/japanese-government-pledges-to-support-tepco-clean-up-fukushima-daiichi-groundwater-contamination/ ...........private industry fucks up, government bails out

http://enformable.com/2013/08/fukushima-prefecture-requests-japanese-government-remove-tepco-from-management-of-fukushima-daiichi-decommissioning/ ...................please get rid of the private industry fuck ups, thanks.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323420604578651713545887032.html ..........we have lost it already

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/world/asia/leaks-into-pacific-persist-at-japan-nuclear-plant.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2& ............ yes it does leak, and it has been leaking since it exploded.



Tschernobyl was quite the news when I was 18 and living in bavaria. T'was the year we stopped going to the woods for mushrooms (the non poisonous one), berries and seeds. (foraging is it still be done, because that was an important foodsource for peeps with little money.)
Wild boar still can not be killed for eating as they are highly radioactive..
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/a-quarter-century-after-chernobyl-radioactive-boar-on-the-rise-in-germany-a-709345.html


money, in any form or shape is the least of our worries (if we choose to worry), it is the foodsupply that we have fucked over muchly pretty much everywhere on this planet.
soylent green anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IKVj4l5GU4

[avgas]

Blue Rider - don't think NZ has such an untarnished reputation. We are world leaders in innovation of creating "dead zones" with no oil spills, no radioactivity. In fact we are a world first in doing so. We are second most efficient in creating ocean dead zones outside the Gulf of Mexico.

Likewise want to know how we became the most efficient in Horticulture and Agriculture without GM goodies? We poison the shit out of things into thinking its dying every year and then it throws out its best crop.
So we are world renowned in creating land based dead zones - some of which are yet to appear 50 years from now. Thanks to Hi-Cane and SuperPhosphate among other lovely things - which have been dumped into the ground for near on 100 years. We will make the US poisoning scams of the 1950's seem like a walk in the park.

Our children are going to pay for our parents sins here - regardless of what we do. While Pripyat is starting to regrow and lose its doping over the next 50 years - our farmland/orchards will become disaster zones, our bays - barren wastelands with no recovery for 100's of years. But because there is no "EVENT" people will not notice until it is all gone. It will be taken from us, slowly, generation by generation will get minor algea blooms, dry patchs of land........until it is all gone. With not a miner, fracker, or power plant in sight.

[blue rider]

Blue Rider - don't think NZ has such an untarnished reputation. We are world leaders in innovation of creating "dead zones" with no oil spills, no radioactivity. In fact we are a world first in doing so. We are second most efficient in creating ocean dead zones outside the Gulf of Mexico.

Likewise want to know how we became the most efficient in Horticulture and Agriculture without GM goodies? We poison the shit out of things into thinking its dying every year and then it throws out its best crop.
So we are world renowned in creating land based dead zones - some of which are yet to appear 50 years from now. Thanks to Hi-Cane and SuperPhosphate among other lovely things - which have been dumped into the ground for near on 100 years. We will make the US poisoning scams of the 1950's seem like a walk in the park.

Our children are going to pay for our parents sins here - regardless of what we do. While Pripyat is starting to regrow and lose its doping over the next 50 years - our farmland/orchards will become disaster zones, our bays - barren wastelands with no recovery for 100's of years. But because there is no "EVENT" people will not notice until it is all gone. It will be taken from us, slowly, generation by generation will get minor algea blooms, dry patchs of land........until it is all gone. With not a miner, fracker, or power plant in sight.



Hi Avgas, I don't think NZ is all that green and clean. I remember when first arriving in 98 friends took me to Piha, and I ended up collecting empty plastic bottles left behind by beach goers. I was told by my kiwi friends, that NZ has so much beach that no - one really gives a dime about the rubbish left behind. Lolz.

GM, Lordi, i am a certified purple wearing hairy dirty fucking hippy mate....what can I say.


And Radioactive poisioning is silent, and odourless and everywhere. Alternative energy, nope to hard basket, return to more substainable farming, nope i want my strawberries midwinter, and growing cows in a country that has not enough grass....fonterra!

But eventually, and this is my firm believe, People need to understand that what ever material possesions they have, they are worth nothing if we can not feed and hydrate our bodies. it will be too late, but as i said earlier on I do pity the young for we will leave them only burned earth.

Midas comes to mind....even if shit turns to gold, ya still can't eat it.

[Ocean1]

Blahblahblahblahblah

No. The correct answer to the question "Should the taxpayer pay for you to sit home and look after your kid/s and then pay for someone else to do it so you don't have to?" is, in fact a resounding FUCK OFF.


Why should a working person get "relief"?


Usually for the same reason they get pretty much anything. They pay for it.

I know you don't like to work hard enough to pay for all the shit you want, but I'm afraid nobody else wants to pay for it either. Suck it up.

[mashman]

Usually for the same reason they get pretty much anything. They pay for it.

I know you don't like to work hard enough to pay for all the shit you want, but I'm afraid nobody else wants to pay for it either. Suck it up.

Right, so as long as you have paid into the kitty, you should be allowed to take out?

:yawn:

[mashman]

consider

http://enformable.com/2013/08/japanese-government-pledges-to-support-tepco-clean-up-fukushima-daiichi-groundwater-contamination/ ...........private industry fucks up, government bails out

http://enformable.com/2013/08/fukushima-prefecture-requests-japanese-government-remove-tepco-from-management-of-fukushima-daiichi-decommissioning/ ...................please get rid of the private industry fuck ups, thanks.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323420604578651713545887032.html ..........we have lost it already

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/07/world/asia/leaks-into-pacific-persist-at-japan-nuclear-plant.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2& ............ yes it does leak, and it has been leaking since it exploded.



Tschernobyl was quite the news when I was 18 and living in bavaria. T'was the year we stopped going to the woods for mushrooms (the non poisonous one), berries and seeds. (foraging is it still be done, because that was an important foodsource for peeps with little money.)
Wild boar still can not be killed for eating as they are highly radioactive..
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/a-quarter-century-after-chernobyl-radioactive-boar-on-the-rise-in-germany-a-709345.html


Aye, colossal fuckups all round. Is it possible to "clean" radiactive water?



money, in any form or shape is the least of our worries (if we choose to worry), it is the foodsupply that we have fucked over muchly pretty much everywhere on this planet.


I agree in regards to food n water etc... however many people take that for granted and taint the food chain and the water because they want to make money. Kill the money and you'll probably, by default, start cutting down on the pollution etc... It may well be too late, but that's still no reason not to try eh.

[mashman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YznLscEjrXA

Shame they never extended the intro topic... amongst other things.

[unstuck]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/BXWvKDSwvls" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>:2thumbsup:2thumbsup

[Ocean1]

Right, so as long as you have paid into the kitty, you should be allowed to take out?

:yawn:

What the fuck are you talking about?

Western governments have gone so far down the road of buying a majority of votes they can't afford to keep their bogus promises. The result is you get well paid people paying so much tax they need rebates to be able to afford daycare for their kids. The fix isn't to make daycare free for every fucking bludger regardless, that just accelerates the race to national bankruptcy. The fix is to tax normal working people so they can afford to buy the resources they need to maintain their working habits.

Idiots bleating because someone else is getting something they're not, even if they don't need it is just more of the same bullshit.

Whada we want? Wot them over there've got!

When do we want it? Fucking now!

Why do we want it? 'Cause tem over there've got it!

Fucking brilliant. :yawn:

[mashman]

What the fuck are you talking about?

Western governments have gone so far down the road of buying a majority of votes they can't afford to keep their bogus promises. The result is you get well paid people paying so much tax they need rebates to be able to afford daycare for their kids. The fix isn't to make daycare free for every fucking bludger regardless, that just accelerates the race to national bankruptcy. The fix is to tax normal working people so they can afford to buy the resources they need to maintain their working habits.

Idiots bleating because someone else is getting something they're not, even if they don't need it is just more of the same bullshit.

Whada we want? Wot them over there've got!

When do we want it? Fucking now!

Why do we want it? 'Cause tem over there've got it!

Fucking brilliant. :yawn:

:rofl:@the fix. You do realise that that has been tried for several thousand years and as yet it hasn't worked? What makes you think an equilibrium can be struck in this day and age? Debt is the reason the race to bankruptcy exists in the first place and either the private sector or the public sector are gonna have to pick up that tab. So who's it gonna be, coz everyone can't be debt free. Someone has to hold the debt and that debt is going to have to be paid by those who have the money to pay it, coz those without money have no money to pay it off with. So come on. Explain how something that has been tried for several thousand years is the fix?

I agree with you in regards to people moaning and bleating that someone else has got something and that they think it unfair that they don't have it, so they want it and should have it now, it's a marketing tactic that's working well eh... something your precious market has created under the guise of spurring growth. Then fuckers moan and bleat about the race to bankruptcy where it's the market that is demanding more and more debt ladened investment and in exactly the same breath moan and bleat that the consumers shouldn't be subsidised. You do realise that if that subsidy is moved to healthcare or the care of the children etc... that there;s gonna be less for them to spend fueling your ridiculous market economy?

I take it you didn't watch the vid with the German dude.

[unstuck]

One small step for man, and a big jump for the curry loving natives.........http://firstpeoples.org/wp/rejection-of-indian-bauxite-mine-is-unprecedented-victory-for-indigenous-rights/

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[unstuck]

From the not so stupid world.........http://www.beyondpesticides.org/dailynewsblog/?p=11473

[Ocean1]

From the not so stupid world.........http://www.beyondpesticides.org/dailynewsblog/?p=11473

Eco-goats. :laugh: Love it.

[Brian d marge]

The IMF supporting or expressing - a new Chicago plan...all that is is a paper based gold standard,,,it has its merits,,,,,
Poo must be hitting the fan
It still won't happen , as a:stupid people are still breathing and are not wearing their Id tags
B: too many greedy fkrs with vested interests
Clean green NZ,,,,,hahahaahaha busted,,,,
Until we start ostracising socially , such as the old stick in the muds, NZ will continue down a path that will and is starting to bite them on the arse
No it doesn't mean ,heavy handed nanny state, what it does mean is a social change of thinking along the lines of the drink driving campaign , it shifted people awareness a little
This growth at all cost , business without a conscious must be stopped or we are all fked
Finally as for the idea of I can go it alone as long as I work hard and pay my way ,,,,
Fine ideals , and people should work hard but for themselves and the community, because life can change in a heartbeat, ,,requiring the community to look after you...?oh I have insurance?? ,,,tui ad right there
Stephen

[mashman]

The IMF supporting or expressing - a new Chicago plan...all that is is a paper based gold standard,,,it has its merits,,,,,

Ahhhh, but paper based gold is infinite where gold isn't. The greed and growth can continue unabated by such trivialities as QE and CE. Corruption/Greed can be papered over. Given that they can print as much paper gold as they like no one will be in poverty? Housing will be affordable? There will be no such thing as a lack of funding for social projects? Healthcare will become instantly affordable? Teachers can have pay rises? We can reform the energy industry with new tech? If not, why not if paper gold is infinite and the associated debt can be managed by destroying debt bearing paper gold?

[Brian d marge]

Ahhhh, but paper based gold is infinite where gold isn't. The greed and growth can continue unabated by such trivialities as QE and CE. Corruption/Greed can be papered over. Given that they can print as much paper gold as they like no one will be in poverty? Housing will be affordable? There will be no such thing as a lack of funding for social projects? Healthcare will become instantly affordable? Teachers can have pay rises? We can reform the energy industry with new tech? If not, why not if paper gold is infinite and the associated debt can be managed by destroying debt bearing paper gold?

Yes Im not sure how that growth would be protected , with gold at least it enters the system at around 3% a year I think

Anyway , here a few answers to some questions

Stephen

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/NOzR3UAyXao" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

Yes Im not sure how that growth would be protected , with gold at least it enters the system at around 3% a year I think

Anyway , here a few answers to some questions

Stephen


By the looks of things money is finally going to be produced for what it represents and without the need for anything, other than good will, to back it. I think they've realised that underwriting the value of money against volatile "commodity's" (human beings/production/gold etc...) simply isn't a requirement for the production of money and that debt can be wiped out as easily as it has been created. To simplify it, No Asset = No Debt, why complicate matters trying to recoup that which exists no longer. Growth will be just another marker to keep the economists happy fervently calculating and modelling and will mean absolutely nothing in the grand scale of things. I reckon they'll keep financial elements like bonds and derivatives etc... (for comfort sake and to keep them in those jobs in those jobs coz it's good for average wage stats) and I reckon that every 10/15 years (boom and bust cycle) they'll simply balance their books (probably they'll do it monthly or even weekly to stop the machine from getting into too much of a tangle) blah blah blah blah. It's a neo-classical economists wet dream and the tin foil hat in me says that they've engineered the GFC to do just the above, but aren't quite sure how to spin it yet in order for it to be swallowed by the mainstream financial institutions.

I see this move as being dangerous to the future of mankind. Likely I'll not be alone, but hey, until people figure this shit out for themselves, primarily by understanding what money is, we'll keep on truckin to our doom, doooooom I tell ye. Essentially, with data collection on individuals etc... you will be graded and each person will be afforded a salary based on their level of compliance and usefulness to the system :shifty:. How better to ensure financial stability? Yet, I'm still positive about things :D.

Those guys are bloody funny.

[Ocean1]

To simplify it, No Asset = No Debt, why complicate matters trying to recoup that which exists no longer.

Last time I looked debt was generally directly associated with an asset. So you're planning on selling all debt carrying assets in order to wright down all debt?

Where will you live? And what do you think your house will sell for amongst the stampede of sales the implementation of your "policy" would drive.

Or p'raps you're just going to burn it down and tell the bank their asset's gone and you're not paying them squat?

[Brian d marge]

Last time I looked debt was generally directly associated with an asset. So you're planning on selling all debt carrying assets in order to wright down all debt?

Where will you live? And what do you think your house will sell for amongst the stampede of sales the implementation of your "policy" would drive.

Or p'raps you're just going to burn it down and tell the bank their asset's gone and you're not paying them squat?

have another watch of that video he posted , the new Chicago plan ..then think again bout the above answer

Stephen

[mashman]

Last time I looked debt was generally directly associated with an asset. So you're planning on selling all debt carrying assets in order to wright down all debt?

Where will you live? And what do you think your house will sell for amongst the stampede of sales the implementation of your "policy" would drive.

Or p'raps you're just going to burn it down and tell the bank their asset's gone and you're not paying them squat?

As Stephen says, have a wee watch of the "plan". In regards to No Asset = No Debt... an Asset doesn't have to be a physical "thing". Think Intellectual Property. If the IP is bunk, but was worth several billion at the time of its conception, how are you going to sell it? Double entry book keeping. X = 0, then Y needs to equal 0. Complicate things no further.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnAtHbDptj8

[Ocean1]

As Stephen says, have a wee watch of the "plan". In regards to No Asset = No Debt... an Asset doesn't have to be a physical "thing". Think Intellectual Property. If the IP is bunk, but was worth several billion at the time of its conception, how are you going to sell it? Double entry book keeping. X = 0, then Y needs to equal 0. Complicate things no further.

I don't have time to watch some disaffected financier expound on his radical new conspiracy theory, which just happens to tickle your fancy. I'm too busy earning the money you reckon isn't worth shit. Also, I tend to construct my own opinions based on long term industry performance rather then adopt some pre-digested shite from youchoob.

As for assets not being physical, yes, probably a whole percent or so of the debt economy isn't physically extant. So what? Someone borrowed the cash, they're responsible for making good on the debt, that's what debt means, attempting to rock the foundations of the economic world by insisting otherwise is patently extremely wishful thinking.

And if you reckon you can do without debt then, like I said sell your house and give the bank back it's evel, corrupting alms, because the FACT is 83% of mortgage funding would vanish if you had your way. Don't like it? I'm, not surprised, you tend to favour taking advantage of the benefits of the financial industry and bleat like fuck about the responsibilities they entail. Tough, piss or get off the pot.

[blue rider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_iorX_MAw

.....................

[blue rider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK2WJd5bXFg

an oldie but still most excellent

[mashman]

I don't have time to watch some disaffected financier expound on his radical new conspiracy theory, which just happens to tickle your fancy. I'm too busy earning the money you reckon isn't worth shit. Also, I tend to construct my own opinions based on long term industry performance rather then adopt some pre-digested shite from youchoob.

As for assets not being physical, yes, probably a whole percent or so of the debt economy isn't physically extant. So what? Someone borrowed the cash, they're responsible for making good on the debt, that's what debt means, attempting to rock the foundations of the economic world by insisting otherwise is patently extremely wishful thinking.

And if you reckon you can do without debt then, like I said sell your house and give the bank back it's evel, corrupting alms, because the FACT is 83% of mortgage funding would vanish if you had your way. Don't like it? I'm, not surprised, you tend to favour taking advantage of the benefits of the financial industry and bleat like fuck about the responsibilities they entail. Tough, piss or get off the pot.

WOW, so many assumptions and absolutely fuck all to back them up with, Oscar will be so proud of you. I do not agree with the new chicago plan as I am still, even more so these days, against the idiocy of a financial system. I have adopted nothing from the internet (least of all the new chicago plan), I make my own decisions. You not being able to accept that as an absolute truth is your issue. With that in mind, I bid you adieu.

[mashman]

an oldie but still most excellent

cannot bling again, not even red ;)... that's some powerful shit.

[Brian d marge]

I don't have time to watch some disaffected financier expound on his radical new conspiracy theory, which just happens to tickle your fancy. I'm too busy earning the money you reckon isn't worth shit. Also, I tend to construct my own opinions based on long term industry performance rather then adopt some pre-digested shite from youchoob.

As for assets not being physical, yes, probably a whole percent or so of the debt economy isn't physically extant. So what? Someone borrowed the cash, they're responsible for making good on the debt, that's what debt means, attempting to rock the foundations of the economic world by insisting otherwise is patently extremely wishful thinking.

And if you reckon you can do without debt then, like I said sell your house and give the bank back it's evel, corrupting alms, because the FACT is 83% of mortgage funding would vanish if you had your way. Don't like it? I'm, not surprised, you tend to favour taking advantage of the benefits of the financial industry and bleat like fuck about the responsibilities they entail. Tough, piss or get off the pot.

Classic fail.org

Stephen

[Ocean1]

Classic fail.org

Stephen

Wow, there's a new take on "I got nuthin".

[Brian d marge]

Wow, there's a new take on "I got nuthin".
Because the post that I replied to , was self evident
So yes , classic fail.org

Stephen

[gwigs]

I don't have time to watch some disaffected financier expound on his radical new conspiracy theory, which just happens to tickle your fancy. I'm too busy earning the money you reckon isn't worth shit. Also, I tend to construct my own opinions based on long term industry performance rather then adopt some pre-digested shite from youchoob.

As for assets not being physical, yes, probably a whole percent or so of the debt economy isn't physically extant. So what? Someone borrowed the cash, they're responsible for making good on the debt, that's what debt means, attempting to rock the foundations of the economic world by insisting otherwise is patently extremely wishful thinking.

And if you reckon you can do without debt then, like I said sell your house and give the bank back it's evel, corrupting alms, because the FACT is 83% of mortgage funding would vanish if you had your way. Don't like it? I'm, not surprised, you tend to favour taking advantage of the benefits of the financial industry and bleat like fuck about the responsibilities they entail. Tough, piss or get off the pot.

286125

:whistle:

[mashman]

Rape of Iraqi Women by US Forces as Weapon of War: Photos and Data Emerge (http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2009/10/03/rape-iraqi-women-us-forces-weapon-war-photos-and-data-emerge) :facepalm:.

[blue rider]

Rape of Iraqi Women by US Forces as Weapon of War: Photos and Data Emerge (http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2009/10/03/rape-iraqi-women-us-forces-weapon-war-photos-and-data-emerge) :facepalm:.



intersting, these pictures were floating around early in in the War on Terror and Iraquis, but were described as "Porn".

So now they are back as the real deal?

Well there never was a war without rape, war and rape always go hand in hand. To the victors go the spoils....and that is what women are. Spoils of war.

[mashman]

intersting, these pictures were floating around early in in the War on Terror and Iraquis, but were described as "Porn".

So now they are back as the real deal?

Well there never was a war without rape, war and rape always go hand in hand. To the victors go the spoils....and that is what women are. Spoils of war.

Well they seem to think there's 2000 or so and you'd have to be a dopey fucker to take pics whilst raping someone. One guy having been jailed would suggest that something happened without consent.

Soldiers should be shot for committing such crimes... and if it is a sanctioned interrogation technique, so should those who sanctioned it. In fact they should be castrated with a blunt spoon first, then shot... or maybe impaled slowly with a rod until it bursts their innards.

[Brian d marge]

Spoils of war ,,, I done gone married her ,, doh!
Damn

Stephen

[blue rider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FgKMhgZ6N8


not sure why i am listening to this....but it still makes sense..

[mashman]

Aye... them lesser human beings need to know their place. Property of the US.

[avgas]

Shame they never extended the intro topic... amongst other things.
Shame he started nattering like a madman, he started off good.

If you want a good book as to how an establishment got it wrong. Read "Chaos - James Gleck".
FYI this is still not taught in schools, but it clearly shows the answers to experiments which have "erroneous data" consistently.

This data is not noise. This data is a science that some people don't understand. But because it broke traditional forms of science, and at the time the computers couldn't give us the answers - these scientists/mathematicians were which blocked.

[mashman]

Shame he started nattering like a madman, he started off good.

If you want a good book as to how an establishment got it wrong. Read "Chaos - James Gleck".
FYI this is still not taught in schools, but it clearly shows the answers to experiments which have "erroneous data" consistently.

This data is not noise. This data is a science that some people don't understand. But because it broke traditional forms of science, and at the time the computers couldn't give us the answers - these scientists/mathematicians were which blocked.

He makes perfect sense to me. I must speak madman... cool, will update CV.

I know they have it wrong. I know how to put it right. There is no doubt that smart men, and women, are ignored by the establishment coz it would mean that the plan was wrong, or at minimum needed to be drafted again... and them plan makers ain't up for being told what to do by scientists or mathematicians. And I'm too much of a slow reader to read books.

[blue rider]

water. really who needs it

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/11/texas-tragedy-ample-oil-no-water

[Brian d marge]

water. really who needs it

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/aug/11/texas-tragedy-ample-oil-no-water

snip
So what is a town like Barnhart to do? Fracking is a powerful drain on water supplies.

thats about the size of it

EVERYONE needs to conserve water

Cotton , uses a hell of a lot so do people! Watering the lawns! , wrong type of lawn , you can have a no water lawn in the desert ,,,, !

As for agriculture , when I look at a grass field all I see is 1/7 under utilized field , I cant see why for example a sheep farmer cant have sheep and say olives or other crops on the same field , or trees that ...wait for it ,,,,,, hold water

cant think of the species right now but I know there is

Stephen

[mashman]

"If you're going to develop the oil, you've got to have the water," said Larry Baxter, a contractor from the nearby town of Mertzon, who installed two frack tanks on his land earlier this year, hoping to make a business out of his well selling water to oil industry.

By his own estimate, his well could produce enough to fill up 20 or 30 water trucks for the oil industry each day. At $60 (£39.58) a truck, that was $36,000 a month, easily. "I could sell 100 truckloads a day if I was open to it," Baxter said."

Bottom line. Fuck the people living in Barnhart, business it business. Getting access to water is their problem.

[blue rider]

snip
So what is a town like Barnhart to do? Fracking is a powerful drain on water supplies.

thats about the size of it

EVERYONE needs to conserve water

Cotton , uses a hell of a lot so do people! Watering the lawns! , wrong type of lawn , you can have a no water lawn in the desert ,,,, !

As for agriculture , when I look at a grass field all I see is 1/7 under utilized field , I cant see why for example a sheep farmer cant have sheep and say olives or other crops on the same field , or trees that ...wait for it ,,,,,, hold water

cant think of the species right now but I know there is

Stephen


i hightlighted the answers to your question

and for the record, I hate golf lawns just hate them.

but we really need to get a grip as to how business is done and how it affects the environment. there is money to be made in sustainability, it just is still in the too hard basket. So screw everyone, i has mine, and yours too.

but yeah...who needs water.

[blue rider]

"If you're going to develop the oil, you've got to have the water," said Larry Baxter, a contractor from the nearby town of Mertzon, who installed two frack tanks on his land earlier this year, hoping to make a business out of his well selling water to oil industry.

By his own estimate, his well could produce enough to fill up 20 or 30 water trucks for the oil industry each day. At $60 (£39.58) a truck, that was $36,000 a month, easily. "I could sell 100 truckloads a day if I was open to it," Baxter said."

Bottom line. Fuck the people living in Barnhart, business it business. Getting access to water is their problem.

he lives there too, he just hopes that by the time the city runs out of potable water, he has made enough gold coins to bugger of to greener pastures.

[mashman]

he lives there too, he just hopes that by the time the city runs out of potable water, he has made enough gold coins to bugger of to greener pastures.

He lives nearby... even still, he's "importing" water, so he has water to drink etc... and then as you say screw everyone else.

There is no money in sustainability... else they'd be doing it shirley?

[blue rider]

He lives nearby... even still, he's "importing" water, so he has water to drink etc... and then as you say screw everyone else.

There is no money in sustainability... else they'd be doing it shirley?

too hard basket....

too many regulations
too much investment
too much new stuff to learn

nearby, ....like in Drury is nearby Auckland?
Petone is nearby Wellington?

[avgas]

I always liked the argument of fracking. It is not easy to do. It uses lots of resources. It destroys the land. It should be inefficient - but it's not.
Turns out the price of oil isn't low enough to stop it.

Could be an argument for anything people buy really.

If you buy it, and you pay the price on the sign. You're paying for the idea really. Doesn't matter if there is a greedy scapegoat. You're still buying from him.
Am I the only one who realises they are on the end of a shovel?

Or prove me wrong - prove to me that you have not purchased oil recently.
Bad people are everywhere. It is up to you to help them.

[Scuba_Steve]

I always liked the argument of fracking. It is not easy to do. It uses lots of resources. It destroys the land. It should be inefficient - but it's not.
Turns out the price of oil isn't low enough to stop it.

Could be an argument for anything people buy really.

If you buy it, and you pay the price on the sign. You're paying for the idea really. Doesn't matter if there is a greedy scapegoat. You're still buying from him.
Am I the only one who realises they are on the end of a shovel?

Or prove me wrong - prove to me that you have not purchased oil recently.
Bad people are everywhere. It is up to you to help them.

But to play the Devil here

Oil is almost impossible not to buy in 1 form or another, it's become a necessity of modern (& even not so modern) living.

[blue rider]

I always liked the argument of fracking. It is not easy to do. It uses lots of resources. It destroys the land. It should be inefficient - but it's not.
Turns out the price of oil isn't low enough to stop it.

Could be an argument for anything people buy really.

If you buy it, and you pay the price on the sign. You're paying for the idea really. Doesn't matter if there is a greedy scapegoat. You're still buying from him.
Am I the only one who realises they are on the end of a shovel?

Or prove me wrong - prove to me that you have not purchased oil recently.
Bad people are everywhere. It is up to you to help them.



point taken, I have purchased gasoline today.

however, we are going to have a problem if and when we do overuse "potable" water for extraction of oil to the extend where whole stretches of land are being dried out. This also applies to industrial farming (dairy country anyone?)

Personally I would like to see the same investment that currently is being made to continue our forced addiction to fossil fuels, is being made to create other sources of energy and the wide scale distribution of it.

My bike does not need to run on gasoline, it could very well be electric, and suncell/wind mills/waterturbines/tide energy etc etc could supply the needed juice. But I do not see the investment, nor many governments incentives for industry to switch over and demand the change. Because honestly the demand needs to come from industries as they are the largest players in the room. The world government have for the last 30 - 40 years steadfastly refused to listen to their citizenry that I doubt they will start now.

this man, when he spoke about it, he was ridiculed and mocked for his sweater.
but his speach still rings true


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmlcLNA8Zhc

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/primary-resources/carter-energy/

[mashman]

too hard basket....

too many regulations
too much investment
too much new stuff to learn

nearby, ....like in Drury is nearby Auckland?
Petone is nearby Wellington?

All of them, yup... remember though, Spain decided to "privatise" the sun. There is no money in sustainability. The wider economic impact (jobs primarily) of cutting down on fossil fuels for power generation is huge and I don't see how that can be replaced with sustainabilty.

Probably different water sources though and in that respect, they may as well be on opposite sides of the planet.

[puddytat]

More good news........India & China gabbing the water.

http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/aug/10/china-india-water-grab-dams-himalayas-danger

[blue rider]

Idle no more

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/12/1230469/-Idle-No-More-Rises-Up-in-the-Bay-Area-to-Lead-a-Protest-Against-Chevron-Fossil-Fuels-Photos-Vid

[avgas]

Personally I would like to see the same investment that currently is being made to continue our forced addiction to fossil fuels, is being made to create other sources of energy and the wide scale distribution of it.
Fair enough - here you go http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/generators-power-supply/solar/auction-624884176.htm
https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/
Don't let us hold you back.

Fact is, I know what the problem is, and I am too much of a hypocrite to change what I do. However I am honest enough to know when I am being slack, and just admit it.
Why haven't I bought an electric motorbike?
Why is my house not a power generator but a consumer?
Why do I buy compost from bunnings????????

Because I am a lazy consumer, who should get my a-into-g.

But if I were to change the world. I would first start with me.
If you can't change yourself why should the world listen to you?

[mashman]

Fair enough - here you go http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/generators-power-supply/solar/auction-624884176.htm
https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/
Don't let us hold you back.

Fact is, I know what the problem is, and I am too much of a hypocrite to change what I do. However I am honest enough to know when I am being slack, and just admit it.
Why haven't I bought an electric motorbike?
Why is my house not a power generator but a consumer?
Why do I buy compost from bunnings????????

Because I am a lazy consumer, who should get my a-into-g.

But if I were to change the world. I would first start with me.
If you can't change yourself why should the world listen to you?

And if someone came to your place and fitted the solar bit n pieces and converted your bike for you for free, would you have become less lazy or have changed yourself?

[Brian d marge]

Fair enough - here you go http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/generators-power-supply/solar/auction-624884176.htm
https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/
Don't let us hold you back.

Fact is, I know what the problem is, and I am too much of a hypocrite to change what I do. However I am honest enough to know when I am being slack, and just admit it.
Why haven't I bought an electric motorbike?
Why is my house not a power generator but a consumer?
Why do I buy compost from bunnings????????

Because I am a lazy consumer, who should get my a-into-g.

But if I were to change the world. I would first start with me.
If you can't change yourself why should the world listen to you?

Me too
You cant change the world and if you try you will just get depressed, BUT you can do ONE thing at a time , try for a Zero waste house ( Im trying but the wife just doesnt grasp the concept , then complains about the rubbish???)
Use a bicycle as mush as possible
try growing things ,
My vege garden is a mass of weeds, but the sunflowers and chilli and beans are ok
Its a change in the way you do things and as long as you realise WHAT needs to be changed thats half the battle IMHO
Many people are simply unaware of the thing they NEED to change
Some think they know; ( here I label the tree huggers , whose intentions are good but fail to realise that there is a bigger player in the park ,)
Hold the fks to account , Indonesian peasant have more get up and go sometimes..
I have an trial Aquaponics..., a trial garden ( I learn by making mistakes ,,,just by trying ) , me homebrew and have had an alternative energy house ( the old mans house ,,he went full retard ,,,)
The biggest problem I have is vegetables over the winter period , spinach goes well ,,, tatties are sleeping well but I have 3 months where things are sparse !...)

Look , I think there IS money in sustainability. I remember once an Australian trial , where the cotton farmer challenged some hippies. He grew cotton the modern way , they grew it organically. He won.

I think this was the wrong approach. The hippies went head to head using a monoculture , should have had at least 5 or more other crops on the same ground , ( think vertically, and aquaponics )

As for Lawns , there is a way to have a nice lawn using no, or very little water. Using a sphagnum mix under the lawn ( from memory !)

So while atm is not so good , As long as we have means of promoting "free thought" ie the internet and people realising the flat screen tv doesnt bring happiness and that nice Mr Key doesnt give a shit about "Joe plumber" ,,then the future can only get better

Stephen

[avgas]

And if someone came to your place and fitted the solar bit n pieces and converted your bike for you for free, would you have become less lazy or have changed yourself?
I always put on clean pants for visitors.

[avgas]

"free thought"
I have plenty of that. Costs me nothing.
Usually reaps the same reward thought.

I put down all my problems not down to what I can think - but what I actually do.
Turns out a majority of the time I do fuck all, except complain about it.

Though I did rescue some fancy Argentina pine from my fireheap and used it for the storage floor under my house. But then I got into my 2.5L car and shot 2km down the road to bunnings to get some screws to hold it together. So I am still going to greenie hell.

[mashman]

I always put on clean pants for visitors.

But not in case you're involved in an accident? Your mother would be disappointed... and I'll voice that concern the next time I'm cleaning her curtains with my penis.

[blue rider]

Fair enough - here you go http://www.trademe.co.nz/business-farming-industry/industrial/generators-power-supply/solar/auction-624884176.htm
https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/
Don't let us hold you back.

Fact is, I know what the problem is, and I am too much of a hypocrite to change what I do. However I am honest enough to know when I am being slack, and just admit it.
Why haven't I bought an electric motorbike?
Why is my house not a power generator but a consumer?
Why do I buy compost from bunnings????????

Because I am a lazy consumer, who should get my a-into-g.

But if I were to change the world. I would first start with me.
If you can't change yourself why should the world listen to you?


I always put on clean pants for visitors.

I don't dispute that fact that to an extend it needs to come from us. And in many ways it does. However, Industry has its place due to the large scale which we as individuals can not produce.

I used to never own a vehicle in Europe as safe bicycling was easy due to special lanes, and easy public transport was provided, busses, trams, trains etc.
The first ten years in NZ I used to live and work down town and I would walk everywhere. (yes walking was faster than the bus). Now I have moved out of town (well west auckland ....Lol) and I own a bike, but no car. A bike is a bit more environmentally friendly than a car. And as much as I love cycling, its not an option in NZ as it is simply to dangerous.

I buy where ever I can NZ made, not only will this hopefully keep the one or the other job in NZ but also it will reduce the environmental footprint a little. Again, this is not much but then I am just one person.

I grow some veggies, I compost and I recycle. I like to buy without packaging so alot is bulk, again where possible. I support my local farmer markets like the good DFH that I am.

I also always wear pants when I have visitors, but I do not expect them to install solarcells for free.:cool:

I do however believe that the NZ government could invest in solarcells (there is a lot of sun here) and windmills (also quite windy) do help generate our electricity needs, or at the least support Businesses that want to invest in this type of energy. What is so wrong about that? What is wrong about incentives to get Landlords and Houseowners building new to use double glazing instead of the thin sheet of glass that is used here for windows? What is wrong about a Government that uses a Carrot and Stick approach to foster and yes kindly force new technology that will in the end safe / or at least preserve the environment that we still have?

There is nothing hypocritical about admitting that one uses the system in place, however it is becoming criminal to not ask better from those that are supposed to advance the country and create a better future.

Or else, lets by cynical, fuck the future generation and use everything up till nothing is left over? sorry kiddo, I had mine and yours too because it was more convenient and cheaper and I could not be bothered?

[puddytat]

Well here is something we all wish we could do to do "our" part.......
And here is what they want to do about it.......cant have them not making money eh bro

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/13/solar-panels-far-right

[mashman]

What is wrong about a Government that uses a Carrot and Stick approach to foster and yes kindly force new technology that will in the end safe / or at least preserve the environment that we still have?

Because of shit like this (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/12/bt-broadband-scam)... broken record time, it's all about the money money money, we just want yer money money money, we don't wanna make the world dance, we're all about the price tag :D No Money = Instant adoption of New Technology... after all, why else do we produce power if not for people to use? fucking shame that we have to charge people for it, nay, rip us off for the use of what was free. I wanna know why we haven't got any tech that recycles fucked stuff back to it's constituent elements. Now that would be expensive.

[Brian d marge]

I have plenty of that. Costs me nothing.
Usually reaps the same reward thought.

I put down all my problems not down to what I can think - but what I actually do.
Turns out a majority of the time I do fuck all, except complain about it.

Though I did rescue some fancy Argentina pine from my fireheap and used it for the storage floor under my house. But then I got into my 2.5L car and shot 2km down the road to bunnings to get some screws to hold it together. So I am still going to greenie hell.

I do stuff , important stuff. it fills my day , people tell me its important , so it must be ,,,,,, we need some BTO....

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/aJprEyXMrIk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe


Stephen

ps I met the test rider at hrc the other day , NOW Stuffing is I ""word ""I would use , she is HOT... ( 22 cute and racing at sendai next weekend ,,,,,,, horn-o-RAMA \\(^o^)//

[mashman]

Ooooo fancy formatting... GCSB alert

[avgas]

But not in case you're involved in an accident? Your mother would be disappointed... and I'll voice that concern the next time I'm cleaning her curtains with my penis.
Your not hung enough to do curtains. Plus I hear your better at "drapes". :nya:


I don't dispute that fact that to an extend it needs to come from us. And in many ways it does. However, Industry has its place due to the large scale which we as individuals can not produce.

I used to never own a vehicle in Europe as safe bicycling was easy due to special lanes, and easy public transport was provided, busses, trams, trains etc.
The first ten years in NZ I used to live and work down town and I would walk everywhere. (yes walking was faster than the bus). Now I have moved out of town (well west auckland ....Lol) and I own a bike, but no car. A bike is a bit more environmentally friendly than a car. And as much as I love cycling, its not an option in NZ as it is simply to dangerous.

I buy where ever I can NZ made, not only will this hopefully keep the one or the other job in NZ but also it will reduce the environmental footprint a little. Again, this is not much but then I am just one person.

I grow some veggies, I compost and I recycle. I like to buy without packaging so alot is bulk, again where possible. I support my local farmer markets like the good DFH that I am.

I also always wear pants when I have visitors, but I do not expect them to install solarcells for free.:cool:

I do however believe that the NZ government could invest in solarcells (there is a lot of sun here) and windmills (also quite windy) do help generate our electricity needs, or at the least support Businesses that want to invest in this type of energy. What is so wrong about that? What is wrong about incentives to get Landlords and Houseowners building new to use double glazing instead of the thin sheet of glass that is used here for windows? What is wrong about a Government that uses a Carrot and Stick approach to foster and yes kindly force new technology that will in the end safe / or at least preserve the environment that we still have?

There is nothing hypocritical about admitting that one uses the system in place, however it is becoming criminal to not ask better from those that are supposed to advance the country and create a better future.

Or else, lets by cynical, fuck the future generation and use everything up till nothing is left over? sorry kiddo, I had mine and yours too because it was more convenient and cheaper and I could not be bothered?
Or talk about it a little more.

Fact is there are people out there doing more than you.......................and they still can't convince the average joe to fix the world.
Hell even Captain Planet is dead.

There are options out there for the average joe to pursue. But there is also pre-buttered pop-corn. The latter is cheaper, tastier and easier. So people will keep placebo'ing even if they understand the reality.
I am, you are, 99% are and government will.

I did my jumping around years ago about setting standards with LED lighting and subsidised grid connected solar. I educated people about reducing consumption through KVAR reduction and tap change regulation. It wasn't that it was too hard - it was that people didn't care.

The fact that only a handful of KB actually own a green bike reinforces that fact. The government is not going to make electric motorbikes cheaper. So really there is no reason why you shouldn't buy one.
Likewise at $5000 a 1.5kW grid connected house will pay itself back in 5 years. The government could subsidise this but they haven't figured that out yet (insulation subsidies took them 40 years - and even then they got it wrong).

I am not going to say "you did good".....because fact of the matter is its not good enough - and you need to hear that. Because that is the reality of the situation.
You want a carrot? Generate $1000/year in free power. Save $2000 in gas every year.

Or not.

[avgas]

But to play the Devil here
Oil is almost impossible not to buy in 1 form or another, it's become a necessity of modern (& even not so modern) living.
Exactly.
So sit down, strap in, and keep your arms inside the carriage at all times.........this ride is going to get bumpy.

[carbonhed]

You want stupid? This is epically stupid. How middle class bourgeois wankers in the west have killed 20 million asian kids over the last decade and simply don't give a shit!

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article3830725.ece

[mashman]

You want stupid? This is epically stupid. How middle class bourgeois wankers in the west have killed 20 million asian kids over the last decade and simply don't give a shit!

<a href="http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article3830725.ece" target="_blank">http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinio...cle3830725.ece</a>

I assume this is the same story? (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/crops+kill+kids+Opposing+them+does/8738060/story.html) (the times article requiring subscription).

There's no trust. Some GMO may be bad, some may be good and unfortunately we're never going to know which is which without human trials over largish periods of time. I agree with you as it looks like Greenpeace is shooting itself in the foot and allowing kids to die because of its ideology... but it is all about the trust eh.

The issue I have with GMO is with the chemical/insect resistant foods. We have no real idea about the impact of loosing such tech on the environment on the scale that's currently being undertaken. Could it be that if the insects die that other (potentialy harmful) bacteria will flourish? There's a system that's been in place for billions of years that has supported us well and, imho, it's the commercialisation of farming that's stopping us from providing a more symbiotic approach to our environment and how we use it.

[carbonhed]

I assume this is the same story? (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/crops+kill+kids+Opposing+them+does/8738060/story.html) (the times article requiring subscription).



It is indeed. Thanks for that. Didn't realise.

The system in place for billions of years gave us pestilence, famine and an average lifespan of 35 years. Going back to anything like that will kill billions. Not that that would trouble the Greens...

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/mar/09/mark-lynas-truth-treachery-gm

[mashman]

It is indeed. Thanks for that. Didn't realise.

The system in place for billions of years gave us pestilence, famine and an average lifespan of 35 years. Going back to anything like that will kill billions. Not that that would trouble the Greens...

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/mar/09/mark-lynas-truth-treachery-gm

It was on the fooked page but looked interesting.

The natural system or the one humans created with ownership of land and land usage rights? ;) It could well kill billions, but then again, do we really know what we're unleashing by killing off eco-systems? Or is it a case of, who cares, we'll deal with that when it comes? No doubt there's a half-way house there somewhere, no doubt some of the tech that the Monsanto's of the world have could be useful, but whilst the underlying driver is money and not food, and whilst the Monsanto's of the world are receiving get out of jail free cards and refusing to allow seed to be kept etc... then there will be those, including me to an extent, that will remain skeptical irrespective of how good the science may turn out to be.

Why aren't people allowed to be both anti-GMO and pro-GMO on a product by product basis? It only ever seems to be one or the other.

OMG someone on the internet changed their mind :laugh:

[mashman]

Man denied life-saving surgery over 26-cent insurance dispute (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/-man-denied-life-saving-surgery-over-26-cent-insurance-dispute--212103627.html)... fuck that's expensive treatment.

[avgas]

I agree with you as it looks like Greenpeace is shooting itself in the foot and allowing kids to die because of its ideology.
I am sure that Greenpeace will look after kids when they become endangered.

[MisterD]

Rodeo clowns asked to take 'sensitivity training (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/13/rodeo-clowns-asked-take-sensitivity-training/)'...only in 'merica.

[mashman]

Rodeo clowns asked to take 'sensitivity training (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/13/rodeo-clowns-asked-take-sensitivity-training/)'...only in 'merica.

So a clown masked as Obama racially charged a crowd who in turn incited an animal to charge at the clown who's job description it is to attract the animal. Sounds like bull to me.

[MisterD]

So a clown masked as Obama racially charged a crowd who in turn incited an animal to charge at the clown who's job description it is to attract the animal. Sounds like bull to me.

It obviously must be racist, it can't just be taking the piss out of an authority figure...I mean I know that Obama's supreme acheivement is looking more like his Dad than his Mum but...

[mashman]

It obviously must be racist, it can't just be taking the piss out of an authority figure...I mean I know that Obama's supreme acheivement is looking more like his Dad than his Mum but...

:rofl: it was enough to bring down the President, of the Missouri Rodeo Cowboy Association, and there's no smoke without fire. However we never did find out if the clown was white or black.... which would have changed things substantially.

[blue rider]

It obviously must be racist, it can't just be taking the piss out of an authority figure...I mean I know that Obama's supreme acheivement is looking more like his Dad than his Mum but...



i don't think it would be healthy in the states to take the piss out of a president (well with the incumbent, if in the south or redneck country it might be different, with him being a kenya born socialist muslim).

the army ok, the police sure why not, blonds, and beer drinking college boys absolutly, but I don't think I have ever seen a movie where a president of the us had been made fun of.

in europe thats slightly different, but not in the states.

[carbonhed]

whilst the Monsanto's of the world are receiving get out of jail free cards and refusing to allow seed to be kept etc... then there will be those, including me to an extent, that will remain skeptical irrespective of how good the science may turn out to be.

Why aren't people allowed to be both anti-GMO and pro-GMO on a product by product basis? It only ever seems to be one or the other.

OMG someone on the internet changed their mind :laugh:

You're not allowed to pick and choose your GMO crops because the Greens are a religious cult and the dogma must not be challenged.

On the saving not saving of seeds... wouldn't work with hybrids for a start, which is pretty much all maize. Rice and wheat I suppose you could but it's a laborious task to maintain and improve your own line. I suppose most subsistence farmers do it but fuck it if you can afford to buy it once why wouldn't you want the advantages every year? Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it.

[MisterD]

the army ok, the police sure why not, blonds, and beer drinking college boys absolutly, but I don't think I have ever seen a movie where a president of the us had been made fun of.


Did the endless ridicule of "Dubya" wait until he left office? Seems like massive doublestandards at play to me...

[blue rider]

I assume this is the same story? (http://www.ottawacitizen.com/health/crops+kill+kids+Opposing+them+does/8738060/story.html) (the times article requiring subscription).

There's no trust. Some GMO may be bad, some may be good and unfortunately we're never going to know which is which without human trials over largish periods of time. I agree with you as it looks like Greenpeace is shooting itself in the foot and allowing kids to die because of its ideology... but it is all about the trust eh.

The issue I have with GMO is with the chemical/insect resistant foods. We have no real idea about the impact of loosing such tech on the environment on the scale that's currently being undertaken. Could it be that if the insects die that other (potentialy harmful) bacteria will flourish? There's a system that's been in place for billions of years that has supported us well and, imho, it's the commercialisation of farming that's stopping us from providing a more symbiotic approach to our environment and how we use it.



the issue with Montsano is its aggressive behaviour against farmers that do NOT use their products but have fallen "vicitim" to cross contamination.

the issue with Montsano and GMO Crops is that an organic farmer has to jump through more loops for a "organic" certification than a lion in a circus, however most GMO Crops/Food does not need to be labelled.

the issue with GMO is simply that what tests are there are not made available and thus peeps don't know what they buy.

last the issue with the seed saving

http://www.grain.org/article/entries/456-seed-laws-imposing-agricultural-apartheid - old article

http://www.monsanto.com/food-inc/Pages/seed-saving-and-legal-activities.aspx - also quite old

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/10/us-monsanto-organic-lawsuit-idUSBRE9590ZD20130610 from June 2013
http://goodfoodweb.net/justice-begins-with-seeds-a-letter-from-organic-farmer-jim-gerritsen/ from August 2013
http://www.patentdocs.org/2013/07/organic-seed-growers-trade-assn-v-monsanto-co-fed-cir-2013.html July 2013

really at the crux this is something we do not want to loose, the right to buy seeds, and or harvest/safe our own seeds.

If my tomato plant is growing well and I would like to keep the seeds to next year, I should have the right to do so, after all I have bought the plant. Well maybe yes, maybe no.

There are many issues with GMO foods, are they healthy, are they really going to feed the world (what about the plant diversity that is going lost etc), what are the long term implications etc etc, but the Seed issues is at the forefront.
Farmers and Garderners worldwide have safed seeds, since the dawn of time. Well Montsano and Syngenta would like for us to pay for seeds, every year.


from last year, but I do like the visuals
http://www.globalresearch.ca/monsanto-controls-both-the-white-house-and-the-us-congress/5336422

[blue rider]

Did the endless ridicule of "Dubya" wait until he left office? Seems like massive doublestandards at play to me...

oh there are as much caricatures out of Dubya as they are of Obama,
the difference really between Dubya and Obama is that one was ridiculed for supposed lack of intelligence (and no one can say that Dubya presented himself as the smart kid on the block) and one is being ridiculed for colour of skin/ethnicity. But most of these images come from individuals, made up for elections/demonstrations etc.


I am sure that I have never heard of a rodeo clown being painted up as Dubya with the onlookers wanting to have the bull run over the clown, and enthusiastically cheering for this to happen.

Ahhh bread and circuses for those that still can pay a dime at the entrance door.

[MisterD]

I am sure that I have never heard of a rodeo clown being painted up as Dubya with the onlookers wanting to have the bull run over the clown, and enthusiastically cheering for this to happen.

Did you read to the end of the article, where they talk about just such a previous occurence?

[mashman]

I am sure that Greenpeace will look after kids when they become endangered.

Maybe that's what they're trying to engineer.


You're not allowed to pick and choose your GMO crops because the Greens are a religious cult and the dogma must not be challenged.

On the saving not saving of seeds... wouldn't work with hybrids for a start, which is pretty much all maize. Rice and wheat I suppose you could but it's a laborious task to maintain and improve your own line. I suppose most subsistence farmers do it but fuck it if you can afford to buy it once why wouldn't you want the advantages every year? Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it.

heh... you could easily replace Greenpeace with Monsanto there. 'Orrible choice. Lose potentially great tech. Have everything enforced upon us that the other has to offer coz if one is good, so should the others.

I dunno about not forcing anyone to buy it as there seem to be a good few cases against Monsanto and their practices cropping, heh, up in the states at the moment.

[carbonhed]

the issue with Montsano is its aggressive behaviour against farmers that do NOT use their products but have fallen "vicitim" to cross contamination.

the issue with Montsano and GMO Crops is that an organic farmer has to jump through more loops for a "organic" certification than a lion in a circus, however most GMO Crops/Food does not need to be labelled.

the issue with GMO is simply that what tests are there are not made available and thus peeps don't know what they buy.

last the issue with the seed saving

http://www.grain.org/article/entries/456-seed-laws-imposing-agricultural-apartheid - old article

http://www.monsanto.com/food-inc/Pages/seed-saving-and-legal-activities.aspx - also quite old

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/10/us-monsanto-organic-lawsuit-idUSBRE9590ZD20130610 from June 2013
http://goodfoodweb.net/justice-begins-with-seeds-a-letter-from-organic-farmer-jim-gerritsen/ from August 2013
http://www.patentdocs.org/2013/07/organic-seed-growers-trade-assn-v-monsanto-co-fed-cir-2013.html July 2013

really at the crux this is something we do not want to loose, the right to buy seeds, and or harvest/safe our own seeds.

If my tomato plant is growing well and I would like to keep the seeds to next year, I should have the right to do so, after all I have bought the plant. Well maybe yes, maybe no.

There are many issues with GMO foods, are they healthy, are they really going to feed the world (what about the plant diversity that is going lost etc), what are the long term implications etc etc, but the Seed issues is at the forefront.
Farmers and Garderners worldwide have safed seeds, since the dawn of time. Well Montsano and Syngenta would like for us to pay for seeds, every year.


from last year, but I do like the visuals
http://www.globalresearch.ca/monsanto-controls-both-the-white-house-and-the-us-congress/5336422

So that's had a happy resolution where both parties have their rights protected?

"It has never been, nor will it be Monsanto policy to exercise its patent rights where trace amounts of our patented seeds or traits are present in farmer's fields as a result of inadvertent means.

Moreover, Monsanto's attorneys by letter further expanded on the company's absence of any intent to sue plaintiffs:

Monsanto is unaware of any circumstances that would give rise to any claim for patent infringement or any lawsuit against your clients. Monsanto therefore does not assert and has no intention of asserting patent-infringement claims against your clients. You represent that "none of your clients intend to possess, use or sell any transgenic seed, including any transgenic seed potentially covered by Monsanto's patents." Taking your representation as true, any fear of suit or other action is unreasonable, and any decision not to grow certain crops unjustified."

If you want to save your tomato seeds for next year don't buy Monsanto's patented seed lines. Pick the open pollinated variety of your choice and voila.

I'm not allowed to propagate lots of different types of plants that have patents on them... to do so would be to cheat other people out of their hard work.

I'm not surprised organic farmers have to prove their bona fides... if not there'd be all kinds of cheats making bogus claims.

[mashman]

Egypt Morsi Camps: '250 Die' As Police Move In (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/egypt-forces-fire-tear-gas-pro-morsi-camp-051834935.html?vp=1#697A3BG)... does anyone remember why this started?

[puddytat]

'Twas the price of bread....

[mashman]

'Twas the price of bread....

Again... I thought they wanted democracy <_<

[Ocean1]

... does anyone remember why this started?

Yes.

Too many different tribal cultures living in the same place.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Usd9V21H7u4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Now, do you belong here or not?

[mashman]

Yes.

Too many different tribal cultures living in the same place.

Now, do you belong here or not?

Little under the desk foot boogey there...

However I shalt call bullshit on the cultures living in the same place being the why. It's certainly an excuse, but as they aren't always at each others throats that can't be the why.

I belong here. You don't.

[Ocean1]

does anyone remember why this started?


Ding ding...


I belong here. You don't.

Hey, I don't nee no stinken help to make my point from the likes of you! :clap:

Just call me Pavlov.

[avgas]

Maybe that's what they're trying to engineer.



heh... you could easily replace Greenpeace with Monsanto there. 'Orrible choice. Lose potentially great tech. Have everything enforced upon us that the other has to offer coz if one is good, so should the others.

I dunno about not forcing anyone to buy it as there seem to be a good few cases against Monsanto and their practices cropping, heh, up in the states at the moment.
They have to do something - they are making more money but losing more assets
http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/Global/usa/planet3/PDFs/FUND-10-%20Audit.pdf
:lol:

I wish I could remember what Greenpeace was like when hippies ran it.

[mashman]

Hey, I don't nee no stinken help to make my point from the likes of you! :clap:

Just call me Pavlov.

You had a point? :rofl: nothing a like a little narcissism to keep yourself amused eh.