Stupid World

[mashman]

i actually believe that the effort would be so great that it might not be "environmentally" friendly, aka to costly the fuel.
c ause we still don't have ships that run on solar energy, cause thats in the too hard basket, and in the can't be bothered basket.

lets go fracking and tar sanding instead.
:brick:

True... but we have sailing boats and trawlers that would be out there fishing and using that fuel anyway. Why not retask a feckload of them for 1 year? They could be joined by the US boats that are sitting in their harbours doing nothing coz the oil and corexit has fucked their fishing grounds. Perhaps we could do that whilst building the future boats that are solar powered?

[Ocean1]

c ause we still don't have ships that run on solar energy, cause thats in the too hard basket, and in the can't be bothered basket.

Feel free to make that easy, eh? Give us the details on how to solar power a freighter.

[avgas]

So just curious - could you build a dam out of Might River Power Prospectuses?

[avgas]

Feel free to make that easy, eh? Give us the details on how to solar power a freighter.
While I agree with you a little. I can't help think we are looking about the problem wrong.

It wasn't that long ago that to inform someone of you thoughts you had to put pen to paper and this was passed to a person, who put it on a ship, who passed it to another person, who passed it to an intended recipient.

Or an urgent delivery of an item was delivered in 100 days.

Or we used fire to illuminate things.

Or you made a journey to the communal transport which then took you across the country......over a week.

Half the shit we freight right now is just that. Shit. The other half is about 90% consumables which could be produced at the receiving end. The remaining 10% (or less) is marginal in terms of its useful value. Probably 1% is NEEDED or even WANTED.

But thats life really.

[Ocean1]

While I agree with you a little. I can't help think we are looking about the problem wrong.

It wasn't that long ago that to inform someone of you thoughts you had to put pen to paper and this was passed to a person, who put it on a ship, who passed it to another person, who passed it to an intended recipient.

Or an urgent delivery of an item was delivered in 100 days.

Or we used fire to illuminate things.

Or you made a journey to the communal transport which then took you across the country......over a week.

Half the shit we freight right now is just that. Shit. The other half is about 90% consumables which could be produced at the receiving end. The remaining 10% (or less) is marginal in terms of its useful value. Probably 1% is NEEDED or even WANTED.

But thats life really.

Possibly. But leaving the "need" question where it belongs, (the guy paying for the shit), and the practicalities of covering a cargo vessel with PV cells or any equivalent on surfaces which will then be covered with cargo, and the still dubious efficiencies of even the best PV tech, give us a shot at how you move that tonnage at any speed at all using even 100% of the energy available from solar sources.

Any idea?

[mashman]

Possibly. But leaving the "need" question where it belongs, (the guy paying for the shit), and the practicalities of covering a cargo vessel with PV cells or any equivalent on surfaces which will then be covered with cargo, and the still dubious efficiencies of even the best PV tech, give us a shot at how you move that tonnage at any speed at all using even 100% of the energy available from solar sources.

Any idea?

Molten salt thorium reactor.

[jonbuoy]

Solar power wouldn't even keep the lights on a small container ship let alone a reefer. I think your seriously underestimating the power requirements of container ships. If you work out the fuel burnt/mile/kg of product shipping is very efficient.

Wind assisted container ships are already being developed and have been trailed - they can generate power from wind as well using a shaft generator underwater. Will still only be assisted and have Diesel engines.

Small nuclear ships are possible - Russians have some nuclear powered ice breakers.

[Ocean1]

Molten salt thorium reactor.

A nuke? Sure, it's an obvious option. Once the technology is sufficiently mature.

[Ocean1]

Solar power wouldn't even keep the lights on a small container ship let alone a reefer.

Fk'n killjoy.

[jonbuoy]

Fk'n killjoy.

Ha sorry to throw logic into the mix! Maersk Emma sucks down about 110 Megawatts. That's a lot of solar cells.

[mashman]

A nuke? Sure, it's an obvious option. Once the technology is sufficiently mature.

Aye, shame the thorium tech wasn't explored further back in the day. Getting funding, pah, is likely a bastard too.

[blue rider]

Feel free to make that easy, eh? Give us the details on how to solar power a freighter.

well human kind has learned to power a freighter with fuel and/or with nuclear energy, so human kind could if it wanted to figure out how to use solar energy....but that is in the too hard basket?


why don't you give me some good reasons why human kind would not want to invest in alternative energy sources?

[blue rider]

for Ocean1

http://neglectedbooks.com/?p=45

Roy Lewis, The evolution Man or how I ate my Father.

for some reason you remind me of uncle Vanya.

[Ocean1]

Ha sorry to throw logic into the mix! Maersk Emma sucks down about 110 Megawatts. That's a lot of solar cells.

30-40 acres in today's money.

At the equator.


At noon.



On a completely cloudless day.

[Ocean1]

Aye, shame the thorium tech wasn't explored further back in the day. Getting funding, pah, is likely a bastard too.

Possibly, but if the concept was worth much someone would have invested in it. If nobody did, and hasn't since then you can assume the funding isn't forthcoming because it's a shit idea.

[Ocean1]

well human kind has learned to power a freighter with fuel and/or with nuclear energy, so human kind could if it wanted to figure out how to use solar energy....but that is in the too hard basket?


why don't you give me some good reasons why human kind would not want to invest in alternative energy sources?

Human kind has already figured out the best way to use solar energy to power cargo ships. With sails. Nowhere near the too hard basket, just not that efficient.

And if you had the barest smattering of history you'd know that human kind has always invested in sources of energy other than conventional options. There's no reason to suggest that will change any time soon.

When making suggestions about possible alternatives the least you could do is form some sort of basic idea of what's required. Powering cargo ships using PV cells is approximately as practical as powering a freight train with the battery from a GN125.

[Ocean1]

for Ocean1

http://neglectedbooks.com/?p=45

Roy Lewis, The evolution Man or how I ate my Father.

for some reason you remind me of uncle Vanya.

CBF reading it. Although I note, in passing that it's fiction, historical fiction at that, not usually a useful reference source.

[mashman]

Possibly, but if the concept was worth much someone would have invested in it. If nobody did, and hasn't since then you can assume the funding isn't forthcoming because it's a shit idea.

Well that's a bit fuckin silly given that science and technology has moved on a bit... shame too many short-sighted morons haven't.

[Ocean1]

Well that's a bit fuckin silly given that science and technology has moved on a bit... shame too many short-sighted morons haven't.

The type of people that advance our civilisation's technical capability are historically the ones that commit their efforts and their resources to their ideas. Universally, the ones bleating that some other stupid cnut orta do something are less useful.

Piss, or get off the pot, dude.

[mashman]

The type of people that advance our civilisation's technical capability are historically the ones that commit their efforts and their resources to their ideas. Universally, the ones bleating that some other stupid cnut orta do something are less useful.

Piss, or get off the pot, dude.

They're also some of the biggest one-eyed self-important fuckwits that poured derision on some of the most important technological advances this planet has ever seen. I know this because I have a book of their quotes in the lavvy that proves it.

I'll get there.

[onearmedbandit]

as powering a freight train with the battery from a GN125.

Calling Edbear!!

[jonbuoy]

well human kind has learned to power a freighter with fuel and/or with nuclear energy, so human kind could if it wanted to figure out how to use solar energy....but that is in the too hard basket?


why don't you give me some good reasons why human kind would not want to invest in alternative energy sources?

Even if solar cells were 100% efficient at turning the energy that reaches the ground the area needed to supply enough energy to power something like the Maersk Emma 24 hours a day 7 days a week would be massive. Solar cells are getting up to 30% efficient now. There is a finite amount of energy from the sun per square meter. Sure it could be used in combination with wind power and fossil fuel power/nuclear power to reduce consumption.

Assuming you can keep the salt spray off them which would mean rinsing with fresh water which means running reverse osmosis plants to make the fresh water which use a fair amount of power themselves!

[mashman]

A wet dream for the right whinge (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/pensions-ask-retirees-pay-back-105900178.html)

[blue rider]

whahahhahahahahahah.....breathes....whahahahahahah a

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/fukuppy-fukushima-industries-new-mascot-is-branding-disaster-8881883.html

fukuppy indeed

whahahahahah

[Ocean1]

I know this because I have a book of their quotes in the lavvy that proves it.

Sounds like more of your own shit, you've been wiping your arse with it before reading it haven't you?

[mashman]

Sounds like more of your own shit, you've been wiping your arse with it before reading it haven't you?

It's quite an amusing eye opening read... I reckon you'd like it. Got it as a prezzy from a mate and it's called: Dammit Science, Where's My Hoverboard. It contains such beauties as:

Referring to Edison's light bulb.

"Good enough for our transatlantic friends but unworthy of the attention of practical or scientific men" - British House of Commons.
"Everyone acquainted with the subject will recognize it as a conspicuous failure" - Henry Morton, President of Stevens Institute of Technology.
"Such startling announcements as these should be depreciated as being unworthy of science and mischievous to its true progress." - Sir William Stevens

"Fooling around with alternating current is just a waste of time. Nobody will ever use it." - Thomas Edison.
"Gasoline Engines will soon be rendered obsolete" - Thomas Edison

And many more famous, smart, decorated people coming out with all sorts of shit they had no real clue about. Still looking for:

"Money will never be anything other than a medium of exchange" - Ocean1... but I'm only 15 pages in, so hold out hope.

[mashman]

We could fix our economy by giving every man, woman and child £6,000 in cash (http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/10/we-could-fix-our-economy-giving-every-man-woman-and-child-6000-cash)... fuckin ridiculous. Right from the perspective that it would boost spending, but I highly doubt that 6k is going to return that all important confidence to those who have just spent/invested/saved that 6k.

Lunatics running the asylum - check.

[Scuba_Steve]

Ah corrupt NZ, from council to cops to Govt all corrupt all working together all for the oppression & sale of NZ

I wish this guy well, he's up against NZ's biggest criminal operation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuuALt7y80k

[mashman]

Ah corrupt NZ, from council to cops to Govt all corrupt all working together all for the oppression & sale of NZ

I wish this guy well, he's up against NZ's biggest criminal operation.

WTF! That has to be a wind up.

[Ocean1]

It's quite an amusing eye opening read... I reckon you'd like it. Got it as a prezzy from a mate and it's called: Dammit Science, Where's My Hoverboard.

Whinging failures don't have a monopoly on wrong, successful people are probably wrong almost as often.

The difference is successful people put there money or efforts where their mouth is. Yer average whinging idiot will never amount to anything because they don't. They deserve nothing but derision because their random criticism of those that actually produce something is the ultimate hipocracy.

[Ocean1]

Still looking for:

"Money will never be anything other than a medium of exchange" - Ocean1... but I'm only 15 pages in, so hold out hope.

Never said that.

But it's a far better description than "bankers pull money out of thin air and everyone should have whatever they want for free"

[mashman]

Whinging failures don't have a monopoly on wrong, successful people are probably wrong almost as often.

The difference is successful people put there money or efforts where their mouth is. Yer average whinging idiot will never amount to anything because they don't. They deserve nothing but derision because their random criticism of those that actually produce something is the ultimate hipocracy.

Geet fooked. First off, you'd need to agree that what was being produced was of value before you could start throwing derogatory comments around. Secondly, those average whining idiots prop up the successful people. Thirdly, the derision coming from people who are probably wrong almost as often is supposed to carry what weight? Eye of the beholder eh... I'll stick with, geet fooked ta muchly.


Never said that.

But it's a far better description than "bankers pull money out of thin air and everyone should have whatever they want for free"

Only if you're a sigil butt fucked moron.

[Scuba_Steve]

WTF! That has to be a wind up.

be nice if it was a comedy stunt wouldn't it! Unfortunately it's a look at the NZ state of America

[Ocean1]

Geet fooked. First off, you'd need to agree that what was being produced was of value before you could start throwing derogatory comments around.

Which, given that we're describing successful people is already established.


Secondly, those average whining idiots prop up the successful people.

No, those average whining idiots are completely surplus to the requirements of a productive society. You can pretend they're vital to the prosperity of everyone else as long and as often as you like, it's simply not so.


Thirdly, the derision coming from people who are probably wrong almost as often is supposed to carry what weight?

Oh it's not just successful people who think hypercritical non-achievers are worthy of derision, pretty much everyone who actually works to produce anything of value thinks they're an obnoxious deadweight too.


I'll stick with, geet fooked ta muchly.


Which, coming from the ultimate hypocrite we can accurately translate to "Wah, wah, he's not doing what I want so I don't like him". This, in spite of the transparently imbecilic quality of your repeated call to reward non-achievers for their non-efforts.

Let us know when you've failed to invest in thorium tech so we can all foam at the mouth a bit and abuse you some.



Oh, you haven't?

You fucking short sighted moron.

[mashman]

Which, given that we're describing successful people is already established.

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... as I said, geet fooked, there's nothing special about being successful, especially when it's off the backs of others. They stand on the shoulders of giants and claim their accomplishments to be their own and claim the rewards on that basis... irrespective of the shit they've left in their wake, and there is always shit left in their wake.



No, those average whining idiots are completely surplus to the requirements of a productive society. You can pretend they're vital to the prosperity of everyone else as long and as often as you like, it's simply not so.

Bollocks. Perhaps they're whinging for a reason. Stopping to smell the flowers is all fine and well, but if they ain't stopping to smell the shit as well, then they're fuckin idiots.



Oh it's not just successful people who think hypercritical non-achievers are worthy of derision, pretty much everyone who actually works to produce anything of value thinks they're an obnoxious deadweight too.

Yawn.



Which, coming from the ultimate hypocrite we can accurately translate to "Wah, wah, he's not doing what I want so I don't like him". This, in spite of the transparently imbecilic quality of your repeated call to reward non-achievers for their non-efforts.

Let us know when you've failed to invest in thorium tech so we can all foam at the mouth a bit and abuse you some.

Oh, you haven't?

You fucking short sighted moron.


Your translation engine is fooked, get a new one.

It doesn't work? More likely back on the day, when it was weighed up against the reaction of other material that showed more promise, it was dumped by narrow minded fucktards who didn't understand that technology and science move on. Such short-sighted fucktardery, I'm surprised we've made it this far.

Yes, I am investing in it. So you can take that last bit back from the brown hole whence it came.

[Ocean1]

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaa... as I said, geet fooked, there's nothing special about being successful, especially when it's off the backs of others. They stand on the shoulders of giants and claim their accomplishments to be their own and claim the rewards on that basis... irrespective of the shit they've left in their wake, and there is always shit left in their wake.

Ah, no, that's your paranoid delusions talking again. In todays wonderful new socialist paradise yer average successful, productive person, far from profiting from the efforts of others is in fact seriously encumbered by the multitude of non-productive parasites that contribute fuck all to any constructive effort.

You can identify most parasites by the ill directed abuse they hurl in the direction of anyone actually producing anything worthwhile. Arsehole the parasites and the more enterprising would provide a far better world for the rest.


Bollocks. Perhaps they're whinging for a reason.

Yeah, they're delusional fuckwits with an runaway entitlement complex. If everyone had what they were entitled to then the whinging, unproductive element would get fuck all, which is still well more than they deserve.


Yawn.

No, really, pretty much the definition of a hypocrite is someone that criticises others efforts without contributing an alternative. It's extremely ugly behaviour, common enough in some of the darker corners of class-ridden Blighty but rarely tolerated elsewhere, I'm surprised you haven't had it pointed out before now.

Oh yeah. You have.


Your translation engine is fooked, get a new one.

The fuck you say, this whole thread is your serial bitch about how you don't like the way other people manage shit, and I'd say that pointing out your invariable failure to offer any rational alternatives is right on the money.


It doesn't work? More likely back on the day, when it was weighed up against the reaction of other material that showed more promise, it was dumped by narrow minded fucktards who didn't understand that technology and science move on. Such short-sighted fucktardery, I'm surprised we've made it this far.

What, you ask for a rational opinion? And then you invent a fairy tail inhabited by your favourite bogyman to explain why it's all their fault? Again?

Fuck you're funny.


Yes, I am investing in it. So you can take that last bit back from the brown hole whence it came.

Why? You're the one that's forever blaming every other bastard for their choices of investment.

So again, in your own words, you're a fucking short sighted moron.

[jonbuoy]

Thing is a lot of these successful "assholes" also manage to use their business talents to help turn charities around from the brink of bancruptcy. You can vilify the likes of Branson and Gates but they have done far more for charity (and in some cases mankind) than anyone of us will ever do. That's a bitter pill for some people to swallow - yes some people are smarter and more successful than you and me. And even if you took all their wealth away from them given enough time they would be back where they were.

[Scuba_Steve]

Thing is a lot of these successful "assholes" also manage to use their business talents to help turn charities around from the brink of bancruptcy. You can vilify the likes of Branson and Gates but they have done far more for charity (and in some cases mankind) than anyone of us will ever do. That's a bitter pill for some people to swallow - yes some people are smarter and more successful than you and me. And even if you took all their wealth away from them given enough time they would be back where they were.

Alot of them just use charities as tax evasion too.
Also these successful arseholes are in charge of charities, the Red Cross US was under fire a few years back for massively dodgy practice, CCF was only donating less than 20c in the dollar, Barnardos here turns over $50mil/yr but very little of that goes to the kids, the CEO alone is on a few million (think 3.6), the Appco group that does the face to face collections keeps 100% for the 1st year (thats right not a single dollar goes to the charity you thought you were sponsoring for the 1st year).
There are actually very few honourable charities as once they get big enough to become known the arseholes step in & start syphoning money away from where it needs to go & into their own pockets

[mashman]

Ah, no, that's your paranoid delusions talking again. In todays wonderful new socialist paradise yer average successful, productive person, far from profiting from the efforts of others is in fact seriously encumbered by the multitude of non-productive parasites that contribute fuck all to any constructive effort.

You can identify most parasites by the ill directed abuse they hurl in the direction of anyone actually producing anything worthwhile. Arsehole the parasites and the more enterprising would provide a far better world for the rest.

:facepalm: Whether successful or unsuccessful, we ALL rely on others producing stuff. Just because you pay for it does not mean that you have somehow magic'd away the supply chain of people that have contributed towards that which you have produced, let alone the supply chain of people that have supported your customers. One day I hope that sinks in.

Aye, them parasites at the top can sure do a fuckload of damage in their pursuit of success... but who cares eh, so long as they're rewarded accordingly they will be seen revered by the fucktard brigade as something to aspire to.



Yeah, they're delusional fuckwits with an runaway entitlement complex. If everyone had what they were entitled to then the whinging, unproductive element would get fuck all, which is still well more than they deserve.

Ah yes, the entitlement complex. That's the onlything that trickles down in this world... and yet you don;t like the taste of your own medicine. Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.



No, really, pretty much the definition of a hypocrite is someone that criticises others efforts without contributing an alternative. It's extremely ugly behaviour, common enough in some of the darker corners of class-ridden Blighty but rarely tolerated elsewhere, I'm surprised you haven't had it pointed out before now.

Oh yeah. You have.

If you listen to the criticism, it's usually in regards to how people are doing their job and in general they do have an alternative way of doing things. It's extremely positive behaviour, yet the bully boys who think they know better, yet know next to fuck all about how things work, shit all over it because it shows them up for the useless fucktards that they are. Fear of being wrong driving that ignorance... but hey, don't let a good prejudice get in the way of your well rounded view of why there is whinging in the first place.

Yawn.



The fuck you say, this whole thread is your serial bitch about how you don't like the way other people manage shit, and I'd say that pointing out your invariable failure to offer any rational alternatives is right on the money.

Oh how droll... yet so very wrong. The thread is about many things and just about every single one of them can be addressed by "my" very rational alternative. Your statement would probably carry some weight if you knew what "my" alternative was, but you don't. Probably one of the reasons why you're not elite.



What, you ask for a rational opinion? And then you invent a fairy tail inhabited by your favourite bogyman to explain why it's all their fault? Again?

Fuck you're funny.

From what I've read the reason behind not using thorium was because plutonium had a faster reaction and produced a better bang for buck given the tech available. Short-sighted "experts", well, politicians and money men making decisions on scientific ability and capability is rife and needs to be eradicated. Fortunately I know of an alternative that can achieve that end. The bogeymen are real dude, but as per usual, it doesn't fit your argument and out comes the derision. Weak dude, real weak. Hang on, you're one of them bogeymen arencha?



Why? You're the one that's forever blaming every other bastard for their choices of investment.

So again, in your own words, you're a fucking short sighted moron.

They're wrong and they're stupid. I am offering up an alternative where they can be right, whereas you, my myopic friend, are hiding behind some fucked up notion that financial success is the best we can aspire to let alone achieve. So much weakness in one little package, I'm surprised that your brain can process the information and signals required for creating a post. Having said that, you look to be running on natural reflex more than purposeful action.

[blue rider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYHmQT_7a2c


Are there no prisons?

same as same as...

maybe ocean1 is a scrooge in disguise

[mashman]

Thing is a lot of these successful "assholes" also manage to use their business talents to help turn charities around from the brink of bancruptcy. You can vilify the likes of Branson and Gates but they have done far more for charity (and in some cases mankind) than anyone of us will ever do. That's a bitter pill for some people to swallow - yes some people are smarter and more successful than you and me. And even if you took all their wealth away from them given enough time they would be back where they were.

Why is charity required? So that people can look good because they donate to a group that have to beg for funding in order to look after people who society has pushed to the side. Their doo-gooding perpetuates the need for charity. Fuckin pathetic and utterly self-serving from an image perspective.

[mashman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYHmQT_7a2c


Are there no prisons?

same as same as...

maybe ocean1 is a scrooge in disguise

Whaddaya mean in disguise ;)

[Ocean1]

:facepalm: Whether successful or unsuccessful, we ALL rely on others producing stuff. Just because you pay for it does not mean that you have somehow magic'd away the supply chain of people that have contributed towards that which you have produced, let alone the supply chain of people that have supported your customers. One day I hope that sinks in.

Oh I’m fully aware of every single item and service that goes into making up my products, trust me, I’m the one writing the cheques. I’ll say that again, I’m the one paying for every component, every hour’s labour AND a metric shitload of costs completely unrelated to the product. Now listen carefully to this bit: It’s the difference between that and what I sell for that represents the value I add. That bit’s all mine. I earned it.

That’s the real business world. The one that’s made up not of evel slave driving mill owners, but of privately owned small and medium enterprises. The ones adding enough value to their products to represent 80% of this economy.

But I don’t actually expect you to bury your century old class war’s bogyman, after all it’s the only thing preventing you from having to admit that every man is worth just what he earns. And that’d be the end of your lovely wee world, innit?


Aye, them parasites at the top can sure do a fuckload of damage in their pursuit of success... but who cares eh, so long as they're rewarded accordingly they will be seen revered by the fucktard brigade as something to aspire to.

Nowhere near the damage toxic imported class orientated and laughably obsolete ideologies does.

But whatever, I’m sure you find aspiring to fuck all and bleeding the productive sector keeps you warm of a night.


Ah yes, the entitlement complex. That's the onlything that trickles down in this world... and yet you don;t like the taste of your own medicine

I’ll repeat myself as far as to insist that every man is entitled to that which he earns. Anything beyond that and you’re off into your preferred wah wah fantasy territory.


If you listen to the criticism, it's usually in regards to how people are doing their job and in general they do have an alternative way of doing things. It's extremely positive behaviour, yet the bully boys who think they know better, yet know next to fuck all about how things work, shit all over it because it shows them up for the useless fucktards that they are. Fear of being wrong driving that ignorance... but hey, don't let a good prejudice get in the way of your well rounded view of why there is whinging in the first place.

Yeah? Where’s the expert, professionally presented opinions about better alternatives in this thread? Certainly every single one of your contributions is singularly ignorant, poorly informed, abusive and inflammatory.

Which, as I said is worth absolutely nothing but derision. But, yet again, come up with a viable, intelligently thought out alternative and you might get some traction. Hint: abuse and retreat into 19th century unionist propaganda isn’t constructive criticism.

In the meantime those WITH the wherewithal to invest in alternatives are free to do whatever the fuck they like with their money, in spite of your abuse.


Oh how droll... yet so very wrong. The thread is about many things and just about every single one of them can be addressed by "my" very rational alternative. Your statement would probably carry some weight if you knew what "my" alternative was, but you don't. Probably one of the reasons why you're not elite.

Well excuse me if I see it differently. Most posts here are uninformed, hysterical rants at some unreliably reported political decision, mostly in another country, mostly completely irrelevant to anyone here. Most of ‘em are yours. So I’ll stick with “this whole thread is your serial bitch about how you don't like the way other people manage shit, and I'd say that pointing out your invariable failure to offer any rational alternatives is right on the money.” Which far from being wrong on any level is a far more accurate description of the thread.

As for “your” alternative, if you had one that works without wizards we’d have seen it. Nothing you’ve ever dribbled leads me to suspect you’re hiding any workable, revolutionary new economic philosophy. So quit criticising other’s decisions unless you can offer cogent, intelligent, workable alternatives. Again: piss or get off the pot.

And ‘elite”? is a concept that labels you as someone who thinks in terms of classes of people. Yet another thing in which your obsolete cultural model leaves your perceptions of the real world horribly distorted.


From what I've read the reason behind not using thorium was because plutonium had a faster reaction and produced a better bang for buck given the tech available. Short-sighted "experts", well, politicians and money men making decisions on scientific ability and capability is rife and needs to be eradicated. Fortunately I know of an alternative that can achieve that end. The bogeymen are real dude, but as per usual, it doesn't fit your argument and out comes the derision. Weak dude, real weak. Hang on, you're one of them bogeymen arencha?

So if you like Thorium based nuke tech go spend your dime. The rest of us can yell encouragement or abuse, as they see fit.

You know fuck all, you simply can’t accept that other people have the right to make decisions about their own money.

Any yes, I’m one of those that rather think that they do.


They're wrong and they're stupid. I am offering up an alternative where they can be right, whereas you, my myopic friend, are hiding behind some fucked up notion that financial success is the best we can aspire to let alone achieve. So much weakness in one little package, I'm surprised that your brain can process the information and signals required for creating a post. Having said that, you look to be running on natural reflex more than purposeful action.

Right. Everyone else is wrong and everyone else is stupid.

What a fucking relief you’ve got the good oil and can put ‘em all straight.

[jonbuoy]

Why is charity required? So that people can look good because they donate to a group that have to beg for funding in order to look after people who society has pushed to the side. Their doo-gooding perpetuates the need for charity. Fuckin pathetic and utterly self-serving from an image perspective.

So the only reason you donate to charities is to feel/look good?

[mashman]

So the only reason you donate to charities is to feel/look good?

I don't any more and when I did, it was for those who I thought were getting the benefits of my donation.

[Ocean1]

I don't any more and when I did, it was for those who I thought were getting the benefits of my donation.

Quite right, far better to donate like so: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/9334792/Endeavour-Capital-offers-200m-in-financing

[mashman]

Oh I’m fully aware of every single item and service that goes into making up my products, trust me, I’m the one writing the cheques. I’ll say that again, I’m the one paying for every component, every hour’s labour AND a metric shitload of costs completely unrelated to the product. Now listen carefully to this bit: It’s the difference between that and what I sell for that represents the value I add. That bit’s all mine. I earned it.

That’s the real business world. The one that’s made up not of evel slave driving mill owners, but of privately owned small and medium enterprises. The ones adding enough value to their products to represent 80% of this economy.

But I don’t actually expect you to bury your century old class war’s bogyman, after all it’s the only thing preventing you from having to admit that every man is worth just what he earns. And that’d be the end of your lovely wee world, innit?

So you know how much the cleaner at the office where your components come into NZ is paid? As I said, I hope it sinks in some day.

And?

Class war? You really think I'm coming from a position where class matters? Fucksake, just keep listening to your own voice, you seem to enjoy that over listening.



Nowhere near the damage toxic imported class orientated and laughably obsolete ideologies does.

But whatever, I’m sure you find aspiring to fuck all and bleeding the productive sector keeps you warm of a night.

Yawn.



I’ll repeat myself as far as to insist that every man is entitled to that which he earns. Anything beyond that and you’re off into your preferred wah wah fantasy territory.

Oh I understood what you meant, but that's one way traffic... your entitlement complex and the rather large chip on your shoulder is about as much entertainment as I can handle at the moment.



Yeah? Where’s the expert, professionally presented opinions about better alternatives in this thread? Certainly every single one of your contributions is singularly ignorant, poorly informed, abusive and inflammatory.

Which, as I said is worth absolutely nothing but derision. But, yet again, come up with a viable, intelligently thought out alternative and you might get some traction. Hint: abuse and retreat into 19th century unionist propaganda isn’t constructive criticism.

In the meantime those WITH the wherewithal to invest in alternatives are free to do whatever the fuck they like with their money, in spite of your abuse.

Interesting change of subject. However the links I post refer, primarily, to those singularly ignorant, poorly informed, abusive and inflammatory "experts" you're looking for. Feel free to browse the links.

Sorry, I was just responding in kind to your posts as I figured that was the only way you could communicate. If you can;t get past the simple concept of, there's enough food in the world for everyone, yet not everyone gets that food because it costs too much money, then you're not looking at the argument intelligently.

I didn't say they weren't.



Well excuse me if I see it differently. Most posts here are uninformed, hysterical rants at some unreliably reported political decision, mostly in another country, mostly completely irrelevant to anyone here. Most of ‘em are yours. So I’ll stick with “this whole thread is your serial bitch about how you don't like the way other people manage shit, and I'd say that pointing out your invariable failure to offer any rational alternatives is right on the money.” Which far from being wrong on any level is a far more accurate description of the thread.

As for “your” alternative, if you had one that works without wizards we’d have seen it. Nothing you’ve ever dribbled leads me to suspect you’re hiding any workable, revolutionary new economic philosophy. So quit criticising other’s decisions unless you can offer cogent, intelligent, workable alternatives. Again: piss or get off the pot.

And ‘elite”? is a concept that labels you as someone who thinks in terms of classes of people. Yet another thing in which your obsolete cultural model leaves your perceptions of the real world horribly distorted.

I know right, imagine posting a link up and imagining that different people would respond differently to the post. The GFC didn't happen here yet the affects were felt. That's not what the whole thread is about at all, it merely highlights that that's what is happenening all over the world. Pretty hard to draw any other conclusion when looking at it objectively and with people in mind. So your description is far from accurate.

Why should I stop criticising other's decisions? It is my right as a human being to want people to stop being such selfish pricks and then claiming that it's ok because that's the way it is. Sigh, if you can't get past the way things are, you aren't going to understand that "my" alternative is cogent, intelligent and workable. You're the one putting up the barriers, not me. You're the one who's happy to see the distribution of food around the world be limited by the amount of budget available or the amount of money that any given entity is willing to put into such an unprofitable venture. I can only assume that you believe that those people are unworthy of being fed and should die.

No other reason eh? Why am I not surprised.



So if you like Thorium based nuke tech go spend your dime. The rest of us can yell encouragement or abuse, as they see fit.

You know fuck all, you simply can’t accept that other people have the right to make decisions about their own money.

Any yes, I’m one of those that rather think that they do.

I'd rather there needn't be a dime to be spent and that those who want to spend their time advancing that tech can do so. After all, it's for everyone.

bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa... I accept it alright, but I think it's an inefficient way to use the resources that this planet gave us all for free. Mother nature didn't sell parts of the planet to pockets of govts ya know, some thief took them and claimed them as their own, and wrongfully so. And for the record, I doubt the aliems sold it to us either.

Of course you do, you know no better. Your loss.



Right. Everyone else is wrong and everyone else is stupid.

What a fucking relief you’ve got the good oil and can put ‘em all straight.

Not everyone.

I do. I'll get there.

[mashman]

Quite right, far better to donate like so: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/9334792/Endeavour-Capital-offers-200m-in-financing

That's too high-brow for me. I was thinking more along the lines of Cancer Research, The Blind/Deaf Appeals, Schools/clubs wanting to take their kids overseas for events etc...

Having said that, why do they need venture capitalists? What's wrong with putting a plan together and taking a loan from the bank?

[jonbuoy]

I don't any more and when I did, it was for those who I thought were getting the benefits of my donation.

I´m sure a lot of wealthy people think the same. Some wealthy people have got that way because the wealth has been passed from generation to generation. Some have got that way because they have a talent for running businesses that can turn a profit and can turn failing businesses around to make money. Its a talent or "gift" some people have, a talent like professional sportsmen, musicians, artists, writers, scientists have.

[mashman]

I´m sure a lot of wealthy people think the same. Some wealthy people have got that way because the wealth has been passed from generation to generation. Some have got that way because they have a talent for running businesses that can turn a profit and can turn failing businesses around to make money. Its a talent or "gift" some people have, a talent like professional sportsmen, musicians, artists, writers, scientists have.

Yup, some wealthy people see it for what it is (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/the-charitable-industrial-complex.html?_r=1&). Aye, some folk have a great talent for business.

[Ocean1]

I'd rather there needn't be a dime to be spent and that those who want to spend their time advancing that tech can do so. After all, it's for everyone.

But they can. Although some of us aren't qualified, in which case there's fuck all point spending our time "advancing" that tech. In which case we use the time doing what we do best, and giving the money so earned to those who are qualified.

Tough concept, I'll give you that. But if you spend a bit of time....

Nah, you'll always be a fuckwit.


bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa... I accept it alright, but I think it's an inefficient way to use the resources that this planet gave us all for free. Mother nature didn't sell parts of the planet to pockets of govts ya know, some thief took them and claimed them as their own, and wrongfully so. And for the record, I doubt the aliems sold it to us either.

No. They all appeared from a bankers arse.

As you were.

[mashman]

But they can. Although some of us aren't qualified, in which case there's fuck all point spending our time "advancing" that tech. In which case we use the time doing what we do best, and giving the money so earned to those who are qualified.

Tough concept, I'll give you that. But if you spend a bit of time....

Nah, you'll always be a fuckwit.

No. They all appeared from a bankers arse.

As you were.

Whilst qualifications are relevant, they're not a requirement for anything in plenty of cases. Any first has been trial and error, even when it comes to playing with nuclear materials. I'd rather see all of the research being done so that our options aren't limited, especially by money, ya know, the stuff that the leading economist in the country went on TV and announced was pulled out of thin air... the value being given by nothing more than user confidence.

I understand the concept fine, albeit I see it as a pretty archaic way of doing things these days.

[mashman]

Economics students aim to tear up free-market syllabus (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/oct/24/students-post-crash-economics?CMP=twt_gu)... How dare they question the established order set by the qualified professionals and experts of the economic world.

[jonbuoy]

Yup, some wealthy people see it for what it is (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/27/opinion/the-charitable-industrial-complex.html?_r=1&). Aye, some folk have a great talent for business.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sir-richard-branson-give-away-1721394

Yup they do don't they!

[Ocean1]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sir-richard-branson-give-away-1721394

Yup they do don't they!

Careful, dude, you'll get your hand bit.

[mashman]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sir-richard-branson-give-away-1721394

Yup they do don't they!

It's their money.

[Oscar]

I don't any more and when I did, it was for those who I thought were getting the benefits of my donation.

So you don't vote and you don't donate to charity.
Is there any way you do participate in society apart from the constant moaning?

[mashman]

So you don't vote and you don't donate to charity.
Is there any way you do participate in society apart from the constant moaning?

Yes.......

[Oscar]

Yes.......

Visiting your Parole Officer doesn't count.

[mashman]

Visiting your Parole Officer doesn't count.

Of course it does. It keeps him in a job and he earns a little on the side by selling me primo drugs.

[Brian d marge]

Thsts your excuse whats Oscars


Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[mashman]

Thsts your excuse whats Oscars


Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

An extensive stay at fat camp.

[Brian d marge]

An extensive stay at fat camp.


<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/3YR4CseY9pk" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>

Go Russel

Go cuba

Stephen

Meanwhile back in Japan ...http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24723418

[Brian d marge]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/idpkBfAv7uc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Go wendy

Stephen

[mashman]

But, but, but these things must be labelled with ingredients surely? (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/science/herbal-supplements-are-often-not-what-they-seem.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0)

[Brian d marge]

That damn Rasta has been selling me banana leaves again? Ill kill him ....

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Brian d marge]

http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1848433/the-ocean-is-broken/?cs=12


and fukushima is leaking like a sieve...

move along
nothing to see here

look over there
shiny objects
bootstraps
n'shit

Cant see anything from my livin room and Abe said it would be fixed by the olympic games

Stephen

meanwhile

in the Us of an A
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/vq_d4jXMPd4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

meanwhile

in the Us of an A

Pah, what the hell do you want to look after yourself for, that's the job of society.

[Scuba_Steve]

Pah, what the hell do you want to look after yourself for, that's the job of large corporations (after you pay them moneys of-course).

fixed that for ya :msn-wink:

[mashman]

fixed that for ya :msn-wink:

Ooo, ooo, ooo that's a tinfoil hat moment right there :innocent:

[blue rider]

for Mashman
with Love
Occupy

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/11/12/1254911/-Someone-Just-Got-237-000-in-Debt-Forgiven

[Scuba_Steve]

It's massive so might want to have some time if you wanna read, otherwise summary.
US proposal restricts access to scientific research, textbooks, music, art and literature
...
wide-ranging effects on medicines, publishers, internet services, civil liberties and biological patents. (http://wikileaks.org/tpp/#start)

[Zedder]

Another version of it, courtesy of WikiLeaks, in todays NZ Herald:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11156737

[Scuba_Steve]

And an abridged versions with 5 things you should be aware of (http://www.ibtimes.com/leaked-tpp-chapter-5-scary-provisions-wikileaks-trans-pacific-partnership-release-1468856)

[Zedder]

In summary: American Imperialism is still on track.

[puddytat]

20 years of trying to get a free trade deal with them......& nothing.
Why do we need a deal with them? Wouldn't the billion odd people in the region be simply better off without them & just get on with it with the others who generally seem to be in agreement ?
Fuck 'em...Im sick of the fucking cnuts dictating.

[Ocean1]

And an abridged versions with 5 things you should be aware of (http://www.ibtimes.com/leaked-tpp-chapter-5-scary-provisions-wikileaks-trans-pacific-partnership-release-1468856)

If you're aware of the dramatic difference in the cost and accesibility of medicine between NZ and the US you'll recognise one of the main drivers of that in #2.

And the US knows it. They were here in droves a couple of years ago trying to analyse our ACC spend, with the intent of doing a wee copy/paste for Obama-care.

Our health system cops a PR hiding fairly regularly, especially the ACC provisions, but I wonder how many Kiwis realise how good we've got it.

[Smifffy]

Since you like the idea of public transport without charging money, how about this?

http://mashable.com/2013/11/12/russian-subway-squats/#:eyJzIjoidCIsImkiOiJfOG5lNjUyNXNianBiNDhydWpiaGZl Y18ifQ

[blue rider]

Q&Q with Jimmy Lee from JPM gone awol

fun ensued #AskJPM

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23AskJPM&s=tyah

:rofl:

[mashman]

ING found that debt in developed economies amounted to $157 trillion, or 376% of GDP. Emerging-market debt totaled $66.3 trillion at the end of last year, or 224% of GDP. (http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/05/233-3-trillion-total-world-debt-load-at-313-of-gdp/). Aye, sterling mechanism by which to direct mankind's energies.

[Brian d marge]

ING found that debt in developed economies amounted to $157 trillion, or 376% of GDP. Emerging-market debt totaled $66.3 trillion at the end of last year, or 224% of GDP. (http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/05/233-3-trillion-total-world-debt-load-at-313-of-gdp/). Aye, sterling mechanism by which to direct mankind's energies.

dont worry the FED is onto it

The DHS has also targeted “virtual currency platforms and the network of virtual currency exchange makers,” de Vallance added. Earlier this year, the DHS seized about $5 million in bank accounts belonging to the world’s largest bitcoin exchange, Mt. Gox. Since then, the exchange has found itself shunned by much of the international banking community, and it has had difficulty moving money to its U.S. customers (http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/11/mtgox/).


Stephen

[Scuba_Steve]

dont worry the FED is onto it


You had me worried there, thank god the FED is onto it :no:


Some TPP news from your part of the world, seems Jappa land feels the same about the TPP too
http://rt.com/files/opinionpost/21/23/60/00/trans-pacific-partnership.si.jpg

[mashman]

dont worry the FED is onto it

The DHS has also targeted “virtual currency platforms and the network of virtual currency exchange makers,” de Vallance added. Earlier this year, the DHS seized about $5 million in bank accounts belonging to the world’s largest bitcoin exchange, Mt. Gox. Since then, the exchange has found itself shunned by much of the international banking community, and it has had difficulty moving money to its U.S. customers (http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/11/mtgox/).


Stephen

Well come on. We've had a bit of a meltdown recently and as such we should be waiting until we're stable before we allow another currency into the currency marketplace. Best leave it as a monopoly for the time being. As you say, we have the FED.

We could maybe do with a few more 111 call centre staff and not the opposite. (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/19881609/staff-cuts-on-111-calls-backfires/) That'll reflect well on the operational budget.

[Tazz]

Since you like the idea of public transport without charging money, how about this?

http://mashable.com/2013/11/12/russian-subway-squats/#:eyJzIjoidCIsImkiOiJfOG5lNjUyNXNianBiNDhydWpiaGZl Y18ifQ

That is brilliant!

[Zedder]

So diddly squat is worth a train trip at least...

[blue rider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5lMJkw8Bv8#t=29

this is fun

[blue rider]

please donate food so that you team mates that don't make a living working at Walmart can enjoy a Thanksgiving diner.



http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/58097/large/Walmart_food_drive.jpg?1384796391
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/18/walmart-food-drive_n_4296618.html?utm_hp_ref=business#comments

http://www.business2community.com/trends-news/walmart-wont-raise-wages-will-hold-canned-food-drive-employees-0686686

who needs a living wage and a full time job, yer team mates can collect some spam and beans for ya holiday dinners. See, there, fixed!

:killingme: and :crybaby: at the same time

[blue rider]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1386011_711928162168933_1350923361_n.jpg

[blue rider]

need some ice for that drink?

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff250/MantisOahu/PineIslandGlacier_oli_2013317_zpsb9e1bf29.jpg

http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/pine-island-glacier-2013-nov-10/

[mashman]

Today, Swiss Voters Vote On CEO Salaries: Maximum Wage (http://www.popularresistance.org/today-swiss-voters-vote-on-ceo-salaries-maximum-wage/)... they should go much further.

[Zedder]

Today, Swiss Voters Vote On CEO Salaries: Maximum Wage (http://www.popularresistance.org/today-swiss-voters-vote-on-ceo-salaries-maximum-wage/)... they should go much further.

They rejected it Masho:http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/swiss-vote-against-cap-on/898684.html

[mashman]

They rejected it Masho:http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/swiss-vote-against-cap-on/898684.html

Fortunately "adults" die.

[Brian d marge]

It only matters if you are part of it or your value systems are tied up in it

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Zedder]

Fortunately "adults" die.

At least it was a win on the Golden Handshake issue.

[mashman]

At least it was a win on the Golden Handshake issue.

It's a start I guess. Comon the younguns...

[carbonhed]

Just because :-

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/q65O3qA0-n4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[carbonhed]

Oh noes... we're screwed.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/climatism-watching-climate-science/2013/nov/26/world-agricultural-output-continues-rise-despite-p/

[Akzle]

i think the swiss also passed a law to make jacking off at the beach legal.
Yay swiss.

[Brian d marge]

Oh noes... we're screwed.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/climatism-watching-climate-science/2013/nov/26/world-agricultural-output-continues-rise-despite-p/

At what cost? The bee population ?
Stephen

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Brian d marge]

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101230045?__source=yahoo%7Cfinance%7Cheadline%7Che adline%7Cstory&par=yahoo&doc=101230045%7CThe%20Fed%20has%20created%20a%20hu g

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Brian d marge]

Mean while back in lalaland

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Ocean1]

Oh noes... we're screwed.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/climatism-watching-climate-science/2013/nov/26/world-agricultural-output-continues-rise-despite-p/

Ah.

Inconvenient facts.


There goes the neighbourhood...

[carbonhed]

At what cost? The bee population ?
Stephen

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

After Varroa destructor the only thing saving the honey bees is us... and pesticides.

[puddytat]

I'll raise yas a

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/11/27/the-climate-tectonics-of-the-age-of-stupid/#comment-144082

[mashman]

Oh noes... we're screwed.

http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/climatism-watching-climate-science/2013/nov/26/world-agricultural-output-continues-rise-despite-p/

One day we, or the next generation, or the next generation will be. I'd rather we prepared for that sort of thing than worried about when it is likely to happen.

[mashman]

:shit: WTF (http://nz.lifestyle.yahoo.com/health/family/article/-/20108828/womans-baby-taken-from-womb-in-court-ordered-c-section/).

[carbonhed]

:shit: WTF (http://nz.lifestyle.yahoo.com/health/family/article/-/20108828/womans-baby-taken-from-womb-in-court-ordered-c-section/).

A jaw dropper for sure. How that gets to be ok... WTF :facepalm:

[BoristheBiter]

A jaw dropper for sure. How that gets to be ok... WTF :facepalm:

Also where is the father of the three kids?

Accountability went with common sense.

[BoristheBiter]

It's a start I guess. Comon the younguns...


One day we, or the next generation, or the next generation will be. I'd rather we prepared for that sort of thing than worried about when it is likely to happen.

What, the generation that stands around after an accident with their phones out videoing a car crash but won't think of helping while somone burns to death,
or the generation that stands around while a guy is crying over the lose of a friend with their cameras in his face, all so they can put it on youtube and see how cool they can be and bragg about the hits it got.

That generation can fuck the hell off with you leading the way.

I think you should come out from the rock you've been under, take off the rose tinted glasses and see them for what they are.........

Full of piss and vinegar, a sense of entitlement and little else.

[mashman]

What, the generation that stands around after an accident with their phones out videoing a car crash but won't think of helping while somone burns to death,
or the generation that stands around while a guy is crying over the lose of a friend with their cameras in his face, all so they can put it on youtube and see how cool they can be and bragg about the hits it got.

That generation can fuck the hell off with you leading the way.

I think you should come out from the rock you've been under, take off the rose tinted glasses and see them for what they are.........

Full of piss and vinegar, a sense of entitlement and little else.

Yeah, coz those sorts of things are synonymous with the next generation :facepalm: like the lady who was taking pics in case the papers came wanted some whilst the house I was living in was 3 feet from being torched.

They're a product of your generation. Someday you may remove your head from your arse and notice... although I somehow doubt it. You're a disappointment son.

[Ocean1]

the house I was living in was 3 feet from being torched.

I was so close...

[Brian d marge]

Ive got my bases covered

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[mashman]

I was so close...

You're like the Carry Fisher (The Blues Brothers) of the real world.

[BoristheBiter]

Yeah, coz those sorts of things are synonymous with the next generation :facepalm: like the lady who was taking pics in case the papers came wanted some whilst the house I was living in was 3 feet from being torched.

They're a product of your generation. Someday you may remove your head from your arse and notice... although I somehow doubt it. You're a disappointment son.

Better luck next time.

Not a product of mine, you're the old git here.

[BoristheBiter]

You're like the Carry Fisher (The Blues Brothers) of the real world.

Why is the force strong with him?

[mashman]

Better luck next time.

Not a product of mine, you're the old git here.

Ta. I think.

What has anything got to do with age? :facepalm: You're an embarrassment.

[Oscar]

Ta. I think.

What has anything got to do with age? :facepalm: You're an embarrassment.

Oh dear, quite the hypocrite, aren't you.
Besides, I think he's referring to your antediluvian theories and backward thinking, not your chronological age.

[mashman]

Oh dear, quite the hypocrite, aren't you.
Besides, I think he's referring to your antediluvian theories and backward thinking, not your chronological age.

pot kettle.

If that's the case, he's as stupid as you are. Sorry Boris.

[puddytat]

‘You will be on the front lines of the fight for the future, and everyone else – including the opposition parties – will have to follow or be left behind.” -

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/12/02/climate-change-and-socialism/

You everything denialists out there....don't bother reading it .....

[Oscar]

pot kettle.

If that's the case, he's as stupid as you are. Sorry Boris.

"Pot kettle"
Wow - you are quite the wit, aren't you?
Why didn't you just say "I know I am, but what are you?"
You would look as silly (again).

[Ocean1]

You everything denialists out there....don't bother reading it .....

What, they should comment in ignorance?

Link title is interesting. Climate change in the US is seen as having been taken over by the more extreme left. I've only met a few hard-core American adherents, but those few certainly behaved like socialists with a new toy/cause.

The invitation to suspend disbelief comes traditionally from a writer of fiction, asking his readers forbearance of the various fabrications used to carry the story. But, y'know, feel free to deny whatever you like, it's a free world, eh?

[BoristheBiter]

Ta. I think.

What has anything got to do with age? :facepalm: You're an embarrassment.

what I meant was your older than me and you have kids.

But that was yesterday today we can talk about the failings of the school system.

[BoristheBiter]

‘You will be on the front lines of the fight for the future, and everyone else – including the opposition parties – will have to follow or be left behind.” -

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/12/02/climate-change-and-socialism/

You everything denialists out there....don't bother reading it .....

Fuck that bring on some more communism.

I hope the wold heats up as i'm getting older and we all know how old people like to be warm.

[Zedder]

Fuck that bring on some more communism.


Would that be with or without the mass killings, secret police etc?

[carbonhed]

‘You will be on the front lines of the fight for the future, and everyone else – including the opposition parties – will have to follow or be left behind.” -

http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2013/12/02/climate-change-and-socialism/

You everything denialists out there....don't bother reading it .....

Good find!

Don't think I've ever seen the naked political opportunism behind the "Great Global Warming swindle" laid out in all it's shabby glory quite so plainly before.

[Banditbandit]

Good find!

Don't think I've ever seen the naked political opportunism behind the "Great Global Warming swindle" laid out in all it's shabby glory quite so plainly before.

Climate change deniers are in the same league as chem trail believers ..

Oh .. wait ...

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1344722634/324/7463324.jpg

[BoristheBiter]

Would that be with or without the mass killings, secret police etc?


Either or, take your pick.


Climate change deniers are in the same league as chem trail believers ..

Oh .. wait ...



Yeah........nah not even close.

the science fraternity can't agree on the cause so how can plebs like us, but to think con trails are full of chemicals is the work of tinfoil lovers.

[Zedder]

Either or, take your pick.

Lol, there could be a future for you in politics...

Yeah........nah not even close.

the science fraternity can't agree on the cause so how can plebs like us, but to think con trails are full of chemicals is the work of tinfoil lovers.

There is a consensus with scientists on the fact global warming is happening. However, in short, they aren't sure how much, whether the data is being misinterpreted or it's just a natural climate shift etc.

What is clear though, is the opportunity taken to get another scam going from makers of global and national policy.

[BoristheBiter]

There is a consensus with scientists on the fact global warming is happening. However, in short, they aren't sure how much, whether the data is being misinterpreted or it's just a natural climate shift etc.

What is clear though, is the opportunity taken to get another scam going from makers of global and national policy.

yep just look at the ETS scheme's, they don't stop pollution, just charge you for it.

We know we (the earth) is warming up but it is no hotter than when I was a kid.
I remember 30+ in some parts, no rain for 2+ months.
so most believe it is just a normal cycle.

But on saying that, as there is 7+ billion people to think we aren't having an impact is a bit short sighted.

[Zedder]

yep just look at the ETS scheme's, they don't stop pollution, just charge you for it.

We know we (the earth) is warming up but it is no hotter than when I was a kid.
I remember 30+ in some parts, no rain for 2+ months.
so most believe it is just a normal cycle.

But on saying that, as there is 7+ billion people to think we aren't having an impact is a bit short sighted.

It's fascinating what people come up with to blame though. I had an "interesting" discussion with a guy recently who believed it was the fault of volcanoes!?! Talk about a red flag to a bull!

[mashman]

Climate change deniers are in the same league as chem trail believers ..

WTF... hang on a second. Chemtrailing has been admitted.

[mashman]

what I meant was your older than me and you have kids.

But that was yesterday today we can talk about the failings of the school system.

It's possible that I'm older than you, but as I said, that means nothing.

Pah. That's easy. Lack of funding.

[carbonhed]

Climate change deniers are in the same league as chem trail believers ..





Sweetie! You called me names! Damn you're so fucking badass.

Meanwhile in the real world that would be 17 years with no statistically significant warming and the ensemble of GCM's running at the 2% confidence level... but hey, what's a billion dollars per day every day flushed down the gurgler if it brings global socialism closer?

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/carbonhed/satellitetempdata.gif

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/carbonhed/Modelsvdata.png

[Banditbandit]

Sweetie! You called me names! Damn you're so fucking badass.



Names ? What names did I call you ???

But then .. if the cap fits ...

So - you're a chem trail believer ???

[Akzle]

you realise that the sun is the biggest fucking conspiracy out there, eh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V32WHb-EE_0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asesblfb4zI

[mashman]

Soldier Has To Lose Both Legs For Compo (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/video/watch/20133382/soldier-has-to-lose-both-legs-for-compo/)

[BoristheBiter]

It's possible that I'm older than you, but as I said, that means nothing.



Neither does most of the posts on here but it fills in the time.

[puddytat]

Fuck that bring on some more communism.

I hope the wold heats up as i'm getting older and we all know how old people like to be warm.

Nah...Im not advocating Communism.
]
From my Oxford dictionary... "Communism" ,a social system in which there are no social classes & no private ownership of the means of production.
I do advocate socialism though...
Socialism...the theory of public collective ownership or control of the basic means of production, distribution & exchange, with the avowed aim of operating for use rather than profit

[Brian d marge]

Nah...Im not advocating Communism.
]
From my Oxford dictionary... "Communism" ,a social system in which there are no social classes & no private ownership of the means of production.
I do advocate socialism though...
Socialism...the theory of public collective ownership or control of the basic means of production, distribution & exchange, with the avowed aim of operating for use rather than profit

i blame the "jermans" for screwing it all up

uppitty lot they were

Stephen

[BoristheBiter]

Nah...Im not advocating Communism.
]
From my Oxford dictionary... "Communism" ,a social system in which there are no social classes & no private ownership of the means of production.
I do advocate socialism though...
Socialism...the theory of public collective ownership or control of the basic means of production, distribution & exchange, with the avowed aim of operating for use rather than profit

Semantics.

Who is the public? the government of the day? the local council?

either way it stops growth.

[Banditbandit]

Semantics.

Who is the public? the government of the day? the local council?

either way it stops growth.

:rofl: :laugh: :clap: :killingme

How ???

A communist country was first into space with Sputnik and then with a manned rocket ...

Communist Russia was developing bacteriophage technology - something the world desparately needs to combat drug-resistance bacteria ... Russia was ahead of the west in this technology -but it has stopped there since the fall of the communist state.

China is one of the fastest growing economies ...

The World Bank was predicting Vietnam's economy would increase in 2013 at 5.3% - better than non-communist New Zealand

Soviet Russia produced a number of Nobel prize winners in physics and chemistry .. astronomy ...

It was Soviet Russia's lead in nuclear physics (and the resulting war capabllity) that promoted the US to push hard in that field ..

Evidence suggests that you are wrong ...

[BoristheBiter]

:rofl: :laugh: :clap: :killingme

How ???

A communist country was first into space with Sputnik and then with a manned rocket ...

Communist Russia was developing bacteriophage technology - something the world desparately needs to combat drug-resistance bacteria ... Russia was ahead of the west in this technology -but it has stopped there since the fall of the communist state.

China is one of the fastest growing economies ...

The World Bank was predicting Vietnam's economy would increase in 2013 at 5.3% - better than non-communist New Zealand

Soviet Russia produced a number of Nobel prize winners in physics and chemistry .. astronomy ...

It was Soviet Russia's lead in nuclear physics (and the resulting war capabllity) that promoted the US to push hard in that field ..

Evidence suggests that you are wrong ...

lots of was in that post.

the military ran Russia and to be in it was the only guaranty that you got fed.

China has the biggest poverty after India.

in the end you need to rule with an oppressive hand to make it work.

didn't think you trust the world bank?

history tends to disagree.

[puddytat]

Semantics.

Who is the public? the government of the day? the local council?

either way it stops growth.

Well isn't that what we need? What with us already using more resources than what is sustainable for our long term survival, I read somewhere that we are using resources at one & a half times more than what the planet has & are using already 10% more water than the planet produces...As for growth, well I see it that as for growth you only need to look at bacteria in a petri dish to see that once the agar is consumed that the bacteria dies.
As for the Govt, public etc ,well that is the real problem...Govts worldwide are seemingly in it for the private sector & corporates. We are able to solve almost all problems scientifically & yet can come to hardly any consensus on any problems that are due to us.
We are going to have to get our heads around a future for our species that will be totally unlike anything before. How the fuck we can do that when we havnt been able to do anything about anything since Rio, is a worry.
Maybe its a one world Govt, but I cant see that because it'll mean the dissolution of Nation states. I'd like to think that binding referendum would encourage people into taking more interest in the politics, but as a society we have gone from being a society based around community to a society of the self.
Can we fix it? Honestly I think we're fucked. Would make an interesting Poll, I think.
Technology has increased amazingly in a short time. But we as a species are basically the same as 40,000 generations ago....still driven by the same base instincts.
As Chief Seattle said....you cant eat money.
I think we are being set up to fail.

[Banditbandit]

lots of was in that post.



So is Soviet Communsm ... where my past examples came from - so what has stopped the growth in Russia ?? The adoption of the capitalist system??

[Brian d marge]

Tis an easy solution
Start with the person next to u and start giving to them and when u can give to a stranger
Then use your voice and vote to limit the corporate
Disagree on detail but one voice on the big picture

stephen

[Banditbandit]

WTF... hang on a second. Chemtrailing has been admitted.

Yeah yeah ..and we don't know if Man landed on the moon ..

Oh hang on ... back full circle

http://static2.stuff.co.nz/1336528513/005/6889005.jpg

[mashman]

Yeah yeah ..and we don't know if Man landed on the moon ..

Oh hang on ... back full circle

Is that that conservative chappy with edgy <_< views that's hungry for power? I could trust him.

lol... parantly some of the chemtrailing that was admitted to was to do with light reflection, quite interesting really.

[Banditbandit]

Yeah .. That's Colin Craig .. Conservative Party leader .. talked up by the media, then dumped when he said:

He had no idea if man had landed on the moon or not ...
That he believed chem trailing was being used as population control ...
That he didn't bel;eive in man-made climate change ...

He has since said he has no idea if there are Moa alive somewhere in New Zealand ..
Whether this a big cat roaming Canterbury ...
An refused to answer questions about UFOs, saying that was mischevious and irrelelant to politics ...

With the last at least he's learnt to shut up ..

You cuold trust him?? To do what ??? ... Be in Government ??? Shit - I wouldn't support any fucker that hungry for power ... or that stupid ...

[Brian d marge]

That man is perfect for parliament
Next he will be saying weird thing like . .it will create jobs , . .or it will trickle down



Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[avgas]

WTF... hang on a second. Chemtrailing has been admitted.
I have noticed that many of the commercial flights here now are running "chaff" systems. Can't really blame them though - American 747's make pretty sweet looking trophies and don't really haul fast enough away from an airport.

[Brian d marge]

All that american lard onboard

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[avgas]

Is that that conservative chappy with edgy <_< views that's hungry for power? I could trust him.

lol... parantly some of the chemtrailing that was admitted to was to do with light reflection, quite interesting really.
I should have really added this to my previous reply. But really is separate explanation.

"Chem-Trails" as basically a form of Chaff. But instead of doing this
http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/story/13/39/307244/chaff_1.jpg
which attracts a missile through heat......this other Chaff makes a big cloud which confuses radar into thinking that there is infact a big storm cloud.

Problem is that the US weather service meteorologist pretty much rely on Doppler radar to tell the weather (because they are all American College Trained). So when they see a bit dark object on the radar screen they assume rain. (In NZ we have the lovely isobar map, based on satellite images, which would tell us there is nothing to worry about).

So weather department gets in trouble because the worst storm in all time does not arrive.......instead lovely sunny day with F22's flying overhead. They investigate and find the what the Doppler radar (sound) picked up was an airforce chaff.....which you can only see for a few minutes.

So its not really a "Chem-trail" - more a very tiny particles of heavy metal + carcinogenic plastic trail.

[Banditbandit]

So its not really a "Chem-trail" - more a very tiny particles of heavy metal + carcinogenic plastic trail.

My God - and they are spraying it around in the air ??? That's worse than chemtrails ..

[avgas]

My God - and they are spraying it around in the air ??? That's worse than chemtrails ..
Hey I didn't say it was better. Just that if you're going to complain about something get it right.

But I suppose when you think about the sky.......the average human is not going to breathe a whole lot of it. In fact car (or bike) exhaust fumes are probably going to affect you more........and the shit coming out of a motor will make you die immediately in large enough doses - where this stuff in large doses will make you sick and kill you over many years. Isn't life wonderful.

This is another interesting fact I learnt recently......strangely enough I learnt about thorium power cells many moons ago - and never chased it up.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/AptxNrQpGA4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

Hey I didn't say it was better. Just that if you're going to complain about something get it right.

But I suppose when you think about the sky.......the average human is not going to breathe a whole lot of it. In fact car (or bike) exhaust fumes are probably going to affect you more........and the shit coming out of a motor will make you die immediately in large enough doses - where this stuff in large doses will make you sick and kill you over many years. Isn't life wonderful.

This is another interesting fact I learnt recently......strangely enough I learnt about thorium power cells many moons ago - and never chased it up.

http://thelibertycaucus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/tin_foil_hat.gif

[puddytat]

Useless factoid for the day.....
At any moment in time there are a million people flying.....

[Brian d marge]

there is a sheeyt more speedin

Stephen

[Banditbandit]

Useless factoid for the day.....
At any moment in time there are a million people flying.....

I that, like, flapping their arms or is that, like, high ...

Man that's a lot of shit - how come I'm not getting that much?

[mashman]

Child poverty report 'shameful' (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/20219733/child-poverty-report-shameful-labour/)

"Forty per cent of children in poverty are living in a household where their parents are in work, but they aren't earning enough to get by," she said.

-------

But Prime Minister John Key is "very proud" of his government's record in trying to tackle some of those issues.

"If you want to ultimately lift children out of poverty, the way to do that is through work, you've got to break the welfare cycle," he told TVNZ's Breakfast programme.

------

Obviously not JK, you plumped up ignorant fucktard. What a fuckin dickhead.

[BoristheBiter]

you plumped up ignorant fucktard. What a fuckin dickhead.

Been looking in the mirror again?

[mashman]

Been looking in the mirror again?

:yawn: one of us needs way more alcohol before that's going to come close to attaining insult status. Drink up fuzzball.

[BoristheBiter]

:yawn: one of us needs way more alcohol before that's going to come close to attaining insult status. Drink up fuzzball.

It's been a long day and it's only 1.30.

[Zedder]

"Work is the curse of the drinking classes." Strangley enough, I read an article that backed that up.

Apparently, people who go out drinking in groups regularly have no problem getting jobs.

[Brian d marge]

Its bonenkai season here in japan
Drinking in large groups from now until mid january
Its kinda expected of u
I never thoight i would see the day when i refused a drink but bonenkai sees me refusing left right and centre
And we all have jobs

Stephen

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[Ocean1]

Obviously not JK, you plumped up ignorant fucktard. What a fuckin dickhead.

Aye, what was he thinking, breakfast should be free.

Same as everything else.

[mashman]

Aye, what was he thinking, breakfast should be free.

Same as everything else.

Probably how much to charge... but lunch was free once. Then it kinda wasn't. Then it wasn't.

It'll turn your life upside down and plonk you right back where you are at this very moment. Nothing in your life would change. But the lives of others would likely change dramatically... including the lives of those in poverty. Easy as Bro.

[mashman]

A new report says 280,000 people have been told they need elective surgery but only 110,000 are on a waiting list. (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/20225989/research-shows-280-000-need-surgery/)

[puddytat]

Annnnnnnnnnnnd 10 years ago there was only 50,000. A rather damming indictment of this Govt. And the previous. I blame neolib economics....'cause what the fuck else would it be? :wait:

[mashman]

Annnnnnnnnnnnd 10 years ago there was only 50,000. A rather damming indictment of this Govt. And the previous. I blame neolib economics....'cause what the fuck else would it be? :wait:

Gawd I wish it were that easy eh :). But it is pretty sad that we've let Them lose focus on what's important. Although even if they hadn't have changed the economic model back in the day, we'd have likely still had similar issues. There are a growing number of people "competing" for a diminishing number of jobs. It was bound to happen and will most definitely happen again should the issue not be addressed. Wonder what the Ukraine are gonna do? (http://edition.cnn.com/2013/12/08/world/europe/ukraine-protests/) I wonder if they have a plan.

[Scuba_Steve]

I'll just leave this here...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/911_389104091224376_488453138_n.jpg

[carbonhed]

A new report says 280,000 people have been told they need elective surgery but only 110,000 are on a waiting list. (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/20225989/research-shows-280-000-need-surgery/)

Amazingly...

"on average, those on a waiting list had their waiting time reduced by 100 days when they chose to have their surgery through the private health system."

Even more amazingly the report was commissioned by... the private health industry.

Here's an article in nzdoctor about elective surgery

http://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/in-print/2012/november-2012/21-november-2012/elective-surgery.aspx

A small quote from the article :-

"The National Government has made big investments in elective surgery. Total spending has risen $35 million a year since 2008 (New Zealand Doctor, 6 June) and, in this year's Budget, DHBs got $274.5 million to provide elective procedures.

The national health target requires DHBs to do an extra 4000 elective surgeries per year. And this they are doing. All 20 boards hit the mark in quarter four of 2011/12."

[mashman]

Amazingly...

"on average, those on a waiting list had their waiting time reduced by 100 days when they chose to have their surgery through the private health system."

Even more amazingly the report was commissioned by... the private health industry.

Here's an article in nzdoctor about elective surgery

http://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/in-print/2012/november-2012/21-november-2012/elective-surgery.aspx

A small quote from the article :-

"The National Government has made big investments in elective surgery. Total spending has risen $35 million a year since 2008 (New Zealand Doctor, 6 June) and, in this year's Budget, DHBs got $274.5 million to provide elective procedures.

The national health target requires DHBs to do an extra 4000 elective surgeries per year. And this they are doing. All 20 boards hit the mark in quarter four of 2011/12."

heh, I saw the private health bit and wondered if anyone would bring it up. Meh really. It's the same service. If you took all 280,000 across public and private health care, how long would the waiting list be?

Couldn't open linky without registering.

Not questioning their ability to perform lots of surgery. It's the way they go about it that bakes my noodle. Looks to be an expensive business though.

[Scuba_Steve]

People spreading the good word on Friendface [Wake up NZ] (https://www.facebook.com/wakeupnz)

[SPman]

All the latest on the TPPA........


https://wikileaks.org/tpp/

http://wikileaks.org/Second-release-of-secret-Trans.html?update

[Ocean1]

Annnnnnnnnnnnd 10 years ago there was only 50,000. A rather damming indictment of this Govt. And the previous. I blame neolib economics....'cause what the fuck else would it be? :wait:

Jeez, I dunno, leme think....

Well it could be almost anything else. Including changes in the definition of "elective", changes in funding models for primary health, changes in data range and changes in data periods.

In fact it's all of those, and a lot more. In fact the measure's completely meaningless, useless. Unless you're opposed to the current govt and looking for ammunition to feed the press.

[Ocean1]

"The National Government has made big investments in elective surgery. Total spending has risen $35 million a year since 2008 (New Zealand Doctor, 6 June) and, in this year's Budget, DHBs got $274.5 million to provide elective procedures.

The national health target requires DHBs to do an extra 4000 elective surgeries per year. And this they are doing. All 20 boards hit the mark in quarter four of 2011/12."

Spoilsport.

[mashman]

McDonald's And Starbucks' CEOs Make More Than $9,200 An Hour (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-starbucks-ceos-more-9-110100507.html)... They've earned it eh.

[BoristheBiter]

People spreading the good word on Friendface [Wake up NZ] (https://www.facebook.com/wakeupnz)


All the latest on the TPPA........


https://wikileaks.org/tpp/

http://wikileaks.org/Second-release-of-secret-Trans.html?update


McDonald's And Starbucks' CEOs Make More Than $9,200 An Hour (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-starbucks-ceos-more-9-110100507.html)... They've earned it eh.

Good to know you guys care.:wings:

[mashman]

Good to know you guys care.:wings:

Oh we don't, we care about other people coz you're obviously more than capable to look after yourself. We'll just take your pension in part payment.

[BoristheBiter]

Oh we don't, we care about other people coz you're obviously more than capable to look after yourself. We'll just take your pension in part payment.

What, have you been posting while drinking again?

You can take my pension and I will keep everything I make. good deal that.

[mashman]

What, have you been posting while drinking again?

You can take my pension and I will keep everything I make. good deal that.

No no no no no, that's not how it currently works. Why should you have any favours in such a fair society. You will pay your share and we will take your pension as payment.

[Brian d marge]

If you dont place any value on the money or care
Then how much a ceo makes doesnt matter

What worries me more is the powers taken by the state

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

[BoristheBiter]

No no no no no, that's not how it currently works. Why should you have any favours in such a fair society. You will pay your share and we will take your pension as payment.

What you mean like they do now and give it to all the parasites that feed off the state?

Mind you the super is so fucking pitiful it I wouldn't even notice the lose.

[BoristheBiter]

No no no no no, that's not how it currently works. Why should you have any favours in such a fair society. You will pay your share and we will take your pension as payment.

Mind you, buy the time that comes around I will succumb to your way of thinking, sit round doing fuck all and get everything for free so no problems.

[mashman]

What you mean like they do now and give it to all the parasites that feed off the state?

Mind you the super is so fucking pitiful it I wouldn't even notice the lose.

If you like.

Meh.


Mind you, buy the time that comes around I will succumb to your way of thinking, sit round doing fuck all and get everything for free so no problems.

So you'll become a bludger? You do only do it for the money dontcha.

[Ntoxcated]

What, have you been posting while drinking again?


...I wouldn't even notice the lose.


Mind you, buy the time that comes around ...

FFS :hitcher:

[BoristheBiter]

So you'll become a bludger? You do only do it for the money dontcha.

Of course I do, what else is there?

[BoristheBiter]

FFS :hitcher:

Who are you the grammar police?

I just thought with all the extremely bad spelling and grammar on this site no one would notice.

If you want a good laugh go over to the teachers thread and laugh at the teachers spelling. (they wonder why the kids are dumb)

[mashman]

Of course I do, what else is there?

S'ok. We'll look after you so that you and your little bottle can become full-time friends.

[BoristheBiter]

S'ok. We'll look after you so that you and your little bottle can become full-time friends.

Fuck that it had better be a big bottle.

[carbonhed]

We really deserve that asteroid :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HARLEY-DAVIDSON-CUSTOM-CHOPPERS-FOOT-PEGS-1980-2013-/400623277945?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d47021779&clk_rvr_id=559926483334&afsrc=1

[Ocean1]

We really deserve that asteroid :-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HARLEY-DAVIDSON-CUSTOM-CHOPPERS-FOOT-PEGS-1980-2013-/400623277945?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5d47021779&clk_rvr_id=559926483334&afsrc=1

PLEASE CHECK YOUR FITMENT BEFORE BUYING :laugh:

[carbonhed]

:laugh: Well you might laugh... they probably fit Buells too!

See EBR are off into WSBK next year?

[Ocean1]

:laugh: Well you might laugh... they probably fit Buells too!

See EBR are off into WSBK next year?

It's more common to fit Buell footpegs to other machines, particularly Uli ones, they've got a 1" drop from the pin.

And no, haven't seen that, is there not a 1L capacity limit in WSBK?

[carbonhed]

It's more common to fit Buell footpegs to other machines, particularly Uli ones, they've got a 1" drop from the pin.

And no, haven't seen that, is there not a 1L capacity limit in WSBK?

1200 for twins. I think the EBR is 1190.

http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r319/carbonhed/EBR2012_15s.jpg

http://www.erikbuellracing.com/

[carbonhed]

Instead of the usual whiney bollocks, lets celebrate human ingenuity.

Porsche 918 spyder. More economical than a Toyota Pious. As per specs below :-

Power: 887 - 99
Torque: 676-944 - 105
0-62mph: 2.6 - 10.4
Top speed: 214 - 112
Weight: 1,674 - 1425
MPG: 91 - 72
CO2: 72 - 89

The screaming you can hear in the background is the ecofags being relentlessly buggered.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/D9vBKEGjytE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Ocean1]

1200 for twins. I think the EBR is 1190.

Of course. And it is.

Could be interesting if he's got the budget required for a first year campaign.

[Ocean1]

Instead of the usual whiney bollocks, lets celebrate human ingenuity.

Porsche 918 spyder. More economical than a Toyota Pious. As per specs below :-

And, (on the ring at least) a match for the other hybrid, the new McLaren.

[mashman]

Italian girl ‘sexually assaulted’ riot cop with a kiss (http://rt.com/news/italy-protester-kiss-police-271/)... are all cops gay or somefink?

Clashes in Madrid as demonstrators rally against anti-protest bill (http://rt.com/news/madrid-anti-protest-law-264/)...

"Demonstrating near parliament without permission could result in a fine as high as 600,000 euro (US$824,040), while insulting a police officer could cost a demonstrator up to 30,000 euro ($41,202)."

Looks like TPTB are getting a little scared. Just keep on removing them rights, coz them rights will eventually come and remove you... but not with a message of peace and love, but with pitchforks and torches. Fuckin useless wankers. They should be made honourary KB members.

[mashman]

Ayn Rand-loving CEO destroys his empire (http://www.salon.com/2013/12/10/ayn_rand_loving_ceo_destroys_his_empire_partner/)

Someday ignorant fuckers like that will understand that cooperation is better than competition. The damage they leave behind is just as impressive as the fail.

[Ocean1]

Someday ignorant fuckers like that will understand...

Do you have to subscribe to special whiney arsed emporiums to find shit like that? Or do you spend all day whittling terabytes of interweb down to pure refined whiney arsed shit just for our entertainment?

[mashman]

Do you have to subscribe to special whiney arsed emporiums to find shit like that? Or do you spend all day whittling terabytes of interweb down to pure refined whiney arsed shit just for our entertainment?

And more....... you choose your own level of interest.

[carbonhed]

Guy Martin on mashman.

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[carbonhed]

Top official at US Environmental Protection Agency and leading climate change "expert" going to jail for being complete dipshit.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/16/21911592-climate-change-experts-fraud-was-crime-of-massive-proportion-say-feds?lite

[Ocean1]

Top official at US Environmental Protection Agency and leading climate change "expert" going to jail for being complete dipshit.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/16/21911592-climate-change-experts-fraud-was-crime-of-massive-proportion-say-feds?lite

“There’s a certain culture here at the EPA where the mission is the most important thing,” he said. “They don’t think like criminal investigators. They tend to be very trusting and accepting.”

Sorta says it all dunnit?

[Zedder]

Top official at US Environmental Protection Agency and leading climate change "expert" going to jail for being complete dipshit.

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/12/16/21911592-climate-change-experts-fraud-was-crime-of-massive-proportion-say-feds?lite

A lying, cheating, thieving, government official, how surprising...

[carbonhed]

“There’s a certain culture here at the EPA where the mission is the most important thing,” he said. “They don’t think like criminal investigators. They tend to be very trusting and accepting.”

Sorta says it all dunnit?

Noble cause corruption. They're the good guys and any old shit will do.

The Greens are by far the worst offenders. I like to think that the recent electoral results in Australia and Germany where they took an absolute hammering, and even our recent CIR, show that their high water mark was about 3 years ago and there's an absolute flogging coming down the pike. Richly deserved.

[Banditbandit]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-E9EknCYEISw/UUFy0NUVGNI/AAAAAAAAO5E/id-YX3lQqPg/s1600/fatherly-advice-career-cartoon.jpg

[mashman]

Noble cause corruption. They're the good guys and any old shit will do.

The Greens are by far the worst offenders. I like to think that the recent electoral results in Australia and Germany where they took an absolute hammering, and even our recent CIR, show that their high water mark was about 3 years ago and there's an absolute flogging coming down the pike. Richly deserved.

:killingme so the Greens are the problem? Thanks fuck you're here to tell us all these things... on hang on, nope that was a lie, I used my brain and came to an entirely different conclusion, other than you being full of shit that is.

[carbonhed]

:killingme so the Greens are the problem? Thanks fuck you're here to tell us all these things... on hang on, nope that was a lie, I used my brain and came to an entirely different conclusion, other than you being full of shit that is.

Really? It's never flickered across your consciousness that you're being herded like a ruminant?

Here's a recently expired threat of doom from the now very wealthy Al Gore :-

http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2013/12/14/yet-another-final-countdown-expires/

Or how about James Lovelock :-

"Before this century is over, billions of us will die and the few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in the Arctic,"

what does he think now?

http://www.climatedepot.com/2012/04/23/alert-gaia-scientist-james-lovelock-reverses-himself-i-was-alarmist-about-climate-change-so-was-gore-the-problem-is-we-dont-know-what-the-climate-is-doing-we-thought-we-knew-20-years-ago/

Of course there's the serially full of shit Paul Ehrlich

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100153735/paul-ehrlich-still-prophesying-doom-and-still-wrong/

You're being herded by fear.

[Banditbandit]

You're being herded by fear.

And what are you being herded by ???

[mashman]

Really? It's never flickered across your consciousness that you're being herded like a ruminant?

Here's a recently expired threat of doom from the now very wealthy Al Gore :-

http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2013/12/14/yet-another-final-countdown-expires/

Or how about James Lovelock :-

"Before this century is over, billions of us will die and the few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in the Arctic,"

what does he think now?

http://www.climatedepot.com/2012/04/23/alert-gaia-scientist-james-lovelock-reverses-himself-i-was-alarmist-about-climate-change-so-was-gore-the-problem-is-we-dont-know-what-the-climate-is-doing-we-thought-we-knew-20-years-ago/

Of course there's the serially full of shit Paul Ehrlich

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100153735/paul-ehrlich-still-prophesying-doom-and-still-wrong/

You're being herded by fear.

OMG people are changing their minds based on the information they are given... shame that that information is conflicting, where is a person to look for answers?

Herded by fear? You may not have noticed but the planet is pretty fucked up in many places due to the Right and Left having their wicked ways with the economy et al... putting them in the driving position to push the hysteria. The greens want to save the planet and I have to agree with them on that. It may be argued that the planet doesn't need to be saved and that we, as guardians of the planet, should do what the fuck we want to it i.e. as them folk you have highlighted do...

Bottom line. All of the stories and predictions will come true one day. That one day may be 100/1000 etc.. years from now, it may be next week, it may be next year, it may not come in the form of AGW or cyclical climate change, it may come as a result of earthquakes, tidal waves, hurricanes/tornado's etc... but you can bet yaw ass that it'll happen someday. My fear is that fuck all is being done about it and that anyone who does stand up and try to explain these things gets tied up in little political parcels and summarily dismissed as yaw representatives/experts have got dis shit, supposedly. My fear is rational. My fear is real. My fear is that we are not becoming a proactive society. My fear is that you lot are so fuckin dumb, you're missing the point. My fear is concern.

The point being: Is climate change a possibility? Not, is it happening? not, will it happen within a particular timescale? not, who's fault is it? etc... but, is it a possibility? The answer to that is a resounding YES. No two ways about it. The pro and anti climate/GW lobby's are nothing more than a bunch of fuckwits with no idea in regards to being proactive, too many are out and out denialists.

[carbonhed]

And what are you being herded by ???

Well... I planted the thick end of ten thousand native trees when I believed what I was told.

Then there was a whole series of events that caused me to doubt.

"The science is settled" was like being slapped in the face for me. I used to work in the Met Office and the idea that the global climate had been understood and modelled to such a degree of accuracy that you could make such a claim was insane. I knew where in the intellectual hierarchy the climatologists like Jim Salinger belonged and I'd bumped into Kevin Trenberth a few times. He's now like the "Prince of Darkness" of GCM's

Then there was the shoddy statistical work done by paleoclimatologists like Michael Mann. Which was entirely in keeping with what I remembered of climatologists from my younger days.

The bureaucratic nature of the IPCC selected for ethnic and gender equality as per the UN.

The Climategate emails and the way the "team" subverted the peer review process. The refusal to release the data behind papers.

The departure from predicted trends of the GCM's

The continued moving of the goalposts from CAGW all the way to "really spooky weather" and the current ambulance chasing behind every run of the mill extreme weather event.

The way the "team" is searching the remotest corners of the planet in a desperate mission to find the missing heat that proves there is still a flicker of life in the corpse of their theory. The stealth ninja heat in it's ninja cape and panties that passes through the top of the atmosphere where we could measure it with satellites without leaving a trace. Through the stratosphere where we could measure it with satellites, planes, radiosondes, etc without leaving a trace. Through the troposphere where we could measure it with satellites, planes, radiosondes, etc without leaving a trace. Past the surface where we can measure it with the surface station network. Through the upper levels of the ocean where we can measure it the Argos network of buoys, ships, satellites etc. Until finally... you're going to love this... it hides in the one place on the planet where our ability to measure it is weakest and the temperature change of those unimaginably vast oceans of water would be smallest. Aaaaand those same climatologists with their high school statistics diplomas want us to believe they can extract a trend from the noise down to hundredths of a degree... blow me you wanker.

Then of course there was the "climate change denier" schtick. Something that has nothing to do with science at all. Something that no scientist would ever come up with because scepticism is at the heart of the scientific process. Something that has the rank stink of the political left all over it and something that I have have bottomless contempt for.

[avgas]

Well fuck me - turns out Thorium Reactors is a fucking good idea..........but didn't get approved cos it doesn't make bombs.
Why doesn't NZ have a Thorium Reactor?

[Banditbandit]

Then of course there was the "climate change denier" schtick. Something that has nothing to do with science at all. Something that no scientist would ever come up with because scepticism is at the heart of the scientific process. Something that has the rank stink of the political left all over it and something that I have have bottomless contempt for.

The scepticism of Popper/ Kuhn ?? or Descartes?? Or maybe even Paul Feyerabend???

[mashman]

He shoulda ripped people off for billions instead of selling fish in exactly the same manner as any other fishing enterprise, as he probably would have gotten a lighter sentence. (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/fisherman-jailed-blackmarket-sales-202430010--spt.html)

[Zedder]

He shoulda ripped people off for billions instead of selling fish in exactly the same manner as any other fishing enterprise, as he probably would have gotten a lighter sentence. (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/fisherman-jailed-blackmarket-sales-202430010--spt.html)

Lol! Yep, if he'd called himself James Lee Financial Services, he'd be slapped with a wet bus ticket and be a free man.

[mashman]

Hospital closure clause battle heats up today (http://www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/caroline-molloy/hospital-closure-clause-battle-heats-up-today)... useless twats.

[Brian d marge]

how about these idiots

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25411653

Dem ur actual stupids right there

Stephen

[carbonhed]

I'd really like to have one of these 918's so I could park it in the Eco Bays in the Lombard carpark.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/szyUN5GlQ7c" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[mashman]

I'd really like to have one of these 918's so I could park it in the Eco Bays in the Lombard carpark.

When I'm one of the benevolent dictators of the world, I'll have one built for you. Pink?

[mashman]

The HSC Act was passed 27 March 2012 (http://www.marcuschown.com/THE%20HEALTH%20AND%20SOCIAL%20CARE%20ACT%20-%20Briefing%20-%20Marcus%20Chown.htm)

"Crucially and most seriously, it removes the UK government’s obligation to provide universal healthcare in England, something so fundamental it amounts to the abolition of the NHS. As Dr Jacky Davis, co-chair of the NHS Consultants Association says: "After the passage of the unwanted, unneeded and deeply undemocratic NHS bill, we no longer have a national health service.""

[BoristheBiter]

The HSC Act was passed 27 March 2012 (http://www.marcuschown.com/THE%20HEALTH%20AND%20SOCIAL%20CARE%20ACT%20-%20Briefing%20-%20Marcus%20Chown.htm/)

"Crucially and most seriously, it removes the UK government’s obligation to provide universal healthcare in England, something so fundamental it amounts to the abolition of the NHS. As Dr Jacky Davis, co-chair of the NHS Consultants Association says: "After the passage of the unwanted, unneeded and deeply undemocratic NHS bill, we no longer have a national health service.""

please check the link.

[mashman]

please check the link.

Goddamn extra forward slash at the end. Fixed. Ta muchly.

[BoristheBiter]

Goddamn extra forward slash at the end. Fixed. Ta muchly.

Still the other page made more sense.

[mashman]

Still the other page made more sense.

Hmmmmm, not too sure about that as there seem to be an awful lot of people that aren't too happy about what's being done over there... however I'm sure they'll get over it as they're just as stupid as the people over here :shifty:

[BoristheBiter]

Hmmmmm, not too sure about that as there seem to be an awful lot of people that aren't too happy about what's being done over there... however I'm sure they'll get over it as they're just as stupid as the people over here :shifty:

Pretty much, although the nhs over there is far better than here.

[mashman]

Pretty much, although the nhs over there is far better than here.

Dunno about far better, even still, it ain't gonna be "better" for long.

[Ocean1]

Pretty much, although the nhs over there is far better than here.

And in a less than booming economy costs rather a lot more than they can afford.

Hence the belt-tightening.

[blue rider]

why should poor people be a burden on rich peoples societies? If ya get sick and ya don't have a couple hundred thousand dollar/pound/euro/yen spare .....just die, and quietly please, so as to not disturb our beautiful minds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOV8mBjHHYg

[BoristheBiter]

why should poor people be a burden on rich peoples societies? If ya get sick and ya don't have a couple hundred thousand dollar/pound/euro/yen spare .....just die, and quietly please, so as to not disturb our beautiful minds.


If you talking about merica then i would agree with you, but the problem here and in the UK it is slightly different.

All I can say is with the costs going up something has to give (personally I think feed the crims on $1 a day and used the rest for health care) and yes if you can afford it than private is better as not only does it speed up the process but it removes the burden from the public system so it isn't the big scary monster that you are trying to portray.

I know of plenty of people that have been through the public health system and have never been turned away from treatment because they can't afford treatment.

[BoristheBiter]

And in a less than booming economy costs rather a lot more than they can afford.

Hence the belt-tightening.

It's like most public offices, top heavy with too many paper pushers and no one doing any work.

[mashman]

All I can say is with the costs going up something has to give (personally I think feed the crims on $1 a day and used the rest for health care) and yes if you can afford it than private is better as not only does it speed up the process but it removes the burden from the public system so it isn't the big scary monster that you are trying to portray.

From that site you said made less sense than the fucked up link:

"Gradually, the government is starving the NHS of money. This is deliberate. As hospitals run out of money - and the exorbitant repayments on PFI deals are a major factor here - they become prey to takeovers by private companies. This has already happened, with Serco taking over Newmarket Hospital.

Not only does a private company cherry-pick profitable services but it gains infrastructure paid for by the taxpayer. It can also give preferential access to equipment such as kidney machines, blood and organs that were specifically donated by the public to the NHS for use by everyone."

Removes the burden from the public system? Myself and my family have been on the end of private healthcare in the UK and yes, the operations/consultancy/treatments received where received at an NHS public facility. So there is a burden on the public system, just one that very few seem to know about.

Edit: They actually lost my Step Dads records after him having been in hospital for 3 weeks. Originally they where confused as to why he had lost a pint of blood, so whacked in another pint only to find that it expanded the growth on his kidney to the size of a football. So he had to wait for his chemo whilst they hunted for his records. My Step Mum was also misdiagnosed with fibroid cysts, only to wake up 1 Saturday morning jaundiced and to die the following Thursday. Public or private is a bullshit argument when they're both supposed to be performing the same service and both can fuck up just as badly as the other. Fighting over resources will see more people die, especially when it's all down to how much $ you have. $ does not equal harder worker or better human being, but for some unknown reason the decision making fucktards of the world seem to think so... else there wouldn't be a need for multi-tiered service levels. Tis only gonna get worse when more and more of it becomes private.

[carbonhed]

Edit: They actually lost my Step Dads records after him having been in hospital for 3 weeks. Originally they where confused as to why he had lost a pint of blood, so whacked in another pint only to find that it expanded the growth on his kidney to the size of a football. So he had to wait for his chemo whilst they hunted for his records. My Step Mum was also misdiagnosed with fibroid cysts, only to wake up 1 Saturday morning jaundiced and to die the following Thursday. Public or private is a bullshit argument when they're both supposed to be performing the same service and both can fuck up just as badly as the other. Fighting over resources will see more people die, especially when it's all down to how much $ you have. $ does not equal harder worker or better human being, but for some unknown reason the decision making fucktards of the world seem to think so... else there wouldn't be a need for multi-tiered service levels. Tis only gonna get worse when more and more of it becomes private.

Seems like everything I've read about the NHS over the last few years has been a horror story. Mid Staffs just beggared belief. Another bloated sacred cow that needs slaughtering.

[mashman]

Seems like everything I've read about the NHS over the last few years has been a horror story. Mid Staffs just beggared belief. Another bloated sacred cow that needs slaughtering.

Seems to be what happens when you treat your staff like shit. It looks like it has been slaughtered with some of the staff being scattered to University facilities and other hospitals in the region. I guess this is the face of healthcare to a budget.

[BoristheBiter]

From that site you said made less sense than the fucked up link:

"Gradually, the government is starving the NHS of money. This is deliberate. As hospitals run out of money - and the exorbitant repayments on PFI deals are a major factor here - they become prey to takeovers by private companies. This has already happened, with Serco taking over Newmarket Hospital.

Not only does a private company cherry-pick profitable services but it gains infrastructure paid for by the taxpayer. It can also give preferential access to equipment such as kidney machines, blood and organs that were specifically donated by the public to the NHS for use by everyone."

Removes the burden from the public system? Myself and my family have been on the end of private healthcare in the UK and yes, the operations/consultancy/treatments received where received at an NHS public facility. So there is a burden on the public system, just one that very few seem to know about.

Edit: They actually lost my Step Dads records after him having been in hospital for 3 weeks. Originally they where confused as to why he had lost a pint of blood, so whacked in another pint only to find that it expanded the growth on his kidney to the size of a football. So he had to wait for his chemo whilst they hunted for his records. My Step Mum was also misdiagnosed with fibroid cysts, only to wake up 1 Saturday morning jaundiced and to die the following Thursday. Public or private is a bullshit argument when they're both supposed to be performing the same service and both can fuck up just as badly as the other. Fighting over resources will see more people die, especially when it's all down to how much $ you have. $ does not equal harder worker or better human being, but for some unknown reason the decision making fucktards of the world seem to think so... else there wouldn't be a need for multi-tiered service levels. Tis only gonna get worse when more and more of it becomes private.


Seems like everything I've read about the NHS over the last few years has been a horror story. Mid Staffs just beggared belief. Another bloated sacred cow that needs slaughtering.

Yep there are horror story's here as well, My mum was left until her gal bladder went gangrenous. But this was not an error due to lack of funding or resources, this was human error. I'm not saying it is perfect or should we tolerate it but how many good story's are there?

the biggest thing I notice when having to deal with public hospitals is how they just couldn't give a shit.
Mate came off his bike massive damage, in middle more, both arms in plaster, them put his dinner out of reach then fucked off, got sick of him pressing the call button so moved it out of reach.

Maybe we should be able to sue for malpractice, mistreatment etc and maybe they standard will increase.

[mashman]

Yep there are horror story's here as well, My mum was left until her gal bladder went gangrenous. But this was not an error due to lack of funding or resources, this was human error. I'm not saying it is perfect or should we tolerate it but how many good story's are there?

the biggest thing I notice when having to deal with public hospitals is how they just couldn't give a shit.
Mate came off his bike massive damage, in middle more, both arms in plaster, them put his dinner out of reach then fucked off, got sick of him pressing the call button so moved it out of reach.

Maybe we should be able to sue for malpractice, mistreatment etc and maybe they standard will increase.

Am sure there are horror stories everywhere irrespective of the model being used to provide the services... and yeah, human error is very likely quite high on the list of suspects in the "bad" cases and I wonder how much of that is incompetence given that a frequently incompetent professional usually gets sacked. I guess that's the risk of working in such an area where a bad hair day can kill someone. The nursey folk I knew back in the UK, girlfriends of friends, usually harped on about being under resourced and over worked and a few of them had left switching for the teaching profession. For my money nurses should be earning more than bankers... but alas. As you say, there are hundreds of thousands/millions of happy endings.

Your mate is probably a dickhead too and was asking for it... guilt by association like.

Aye, that's a great idea, suck even more money out of the healthcare system and into the pockets of lawyerz etc...

[carbonhed]

Seems to be what happens when you treat your staff like shit. It looks like it has been slaughtered with some of the staff being scattered to University facilities and other hospitals in the region. I guess this is the face of healthcare to a budget.

It wasn't the staff being treated like shit at all... it was the patients being treated like shit by the staff. They were working to satisfy managerial targets, like length of time in A&E, rather than abiding to their duty of care. Staffing levels were definitely a problem though. "No more boom and bust" Gordon Brown apologised but incredibly wasn't burned at the stake.

[Ocean1]

They were working to satisfy managerial targets, like length of time in A&E, rather than abiding to their duty of care.

Some of those targets, (here) represent professional best practice as defined by the professionals in question.

Just saying.

[oneofsix]

Some of those targets, (here) represent professional best practice as defined by the professionals in question.

Just saying.

The professionals are defined as such by themselves and even when not are more often constrained in what they can do and recommend be a totally different set of managerial 'professionals' (often known as puppets).

Just saying.

[carbonhed]

Some of those targets, (here) represent professional best practice as defined by the professionals in question.

Just saying.

For sure. But wheeling someone out of casualty before the 4hr target... when they haven't been treated... just to tick a box! Sounds like they didn't have the staff to meet the targets and instead of saying FUCK THE TARGETS and treating the patients they did the opposite.

I have family back in the UK and they experienced this. We thought my Uncle must be nuts.. it's the NHS FFS but he was right and nailed their arse to the wall.

<script src="http://player.ooyala.com/player.js?width=460&embedCode=A2b3I0OTr8JRaKjAeLsW1nxPhxph-ul1&video_pcode=RvbGU6Z74XE_a3bj4QwRGByhq9h2&height=258&deepLinkEmbedCode=A2b3I0OTr8JRaKjAeLsW1nxPhxph-ul1"></script>

[mashman]

It wasn't the staff being treated like shit at all... it was the patients being treated like shit by the staff. They were working to satisfy managerial targets, like length of time in A&E, rather than abiding to their duty of care. Staffing levels were definitely a problem though. "No more boom and bust" Gordon Brown apologised but incredibly wasn't burned at the stake.

From the executive summary of the public inquiry:

"The previous reports are clear that the following existed: a culture of fear in which staff
did not feel able to report concerns; a culture of secrecy in which the trust board shut
itself off from what was happening in its hospital and ignored its patients; and a culture
of bullying, which prevented people from doing their jobs properly. Yet how these
conditions developed has not been satisfactorily addressed"

Not exactly a caring sharing way to treat your staff and unfortunately it's likely that that filtered through to patient care.

It also mentions, as you highlight, that senior highly trained staff left as the concerns raised by their staff, patients and patients families fell on deaf ears at a higher level.

[Ocean1]

Sounds like they didn't have the staff to meet the targets and instead of saying FUCK THE TARGETS and treating the patients they did the opposite.

Don't pretend to have a deep understanding of NHS performance guidelines. But. :rolleyes: If you staff an ED to meet peak demand you'll blow any rational budget. Which is not to say you get to do less than your best for anyone walking through the door.

Outside of the perfectly normal rate of human error there's similarities between the problems the NHS have and some of the problems experienced here. Some of them are merely extremely complex logistical puzzles. Some are cultural flaws. In the first case a successful resolution depends on senior management professionals’ ability to educate policy makers on how to maximise resources and the ability to manage public expectations to match what can reasonably be provided from those resources.

In the second case a resolution often requires the complete replacement of a particular institution. I wonder if that’s what’s going on, there.

[Ocean1]

The professionals are defined as such by themselves and even when not are more often constrained in what they can do and recommend be a totally different set of managerial 'professionals' (often known as puppets).

Just saying.

Can you make that make sense?

[Zedder]

A report on the NZ public health system:http://www.asms.org.nz/Site/Publications/Addresses_Papers/Executive_Director_Addresses/2013_AMA_ICM_Canberra.aspx

[Ocean1]

A report on the NZ public health system:http://www.asms.org.nz/Site/Publications/Addresses_Papers/Executive_Director_Addresses/2013_AMA_ICM_Canberra.aspx

By the Association of salaried Medical Specialists, (The union).

Just in case anyone was considering this an unbiased source.

Who are basically saying that although all of the resources allocated to the industry have increased and continue to increase, and although the various performance indicators for the industry continue to improve the government aren't paying them enough.

All clear?

[mashman]

Can you make that make sense?



The professionals are defined as such by themselves... and even when they are not, they are more often constrained in what they can do, and recommend, by a totally different set of managerial 'professionals' (often known as puppets).

Just saying.

Is how I read it. If it still doesn't make sense, :killingme, then I won't be surprised.

[Ocean1]

Is how I read it. If it still doesn't make sense, :killingme, then I won't be surprised.

Given that the professionals in question are without exception tertiary qualified at minimum I can't get where the "defined as such by themselves" comes from.

He possibly means the management professionals. In which case he's possibly unaware that unlike most industries for most health management roles at least one tertiary qual is normal.

No sense there either. Best write it of as an unspecified bitch, let it die and move on. :shifty:

[Zedder]

By the Association of salaried Medical Specialists, (The union).

Just in case anyone was considering this an unbiased source.

Who are basically saying that although all of the resources allocated to the industry have increased and continue to increase, and although the various performance indicators for the industry continue to improve the government aren't paying them enough.

All clear?

There's a bit more to it then what you wrote. Paragraph 3 sums it up.

[BoristheBiter]

Seems to be what happens when you treat your staff like shit. It looks like it has been slaughtered with some of the staff being scattered to University facilities and other hospitals in the region. I guess this is the face of healthcare to a budget.

Just proves then that they only do it for the money.