Stupid World

[pritch]

Smart world!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/486605/world-athletics-bans-transgender-female-athletes-from-female-categories


It was a problem that needed to be dealt with. Sad for the individuals but it's the sensible solution.

[TheDemonLord]

Smart world!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/486605/world-athletics-bans-transgender-female-athletes-from-female-categories

How Utterly Transphobic.

TransWomen are Women, Donchaknow.

There's no biological differences between the Sexes, Donchaknow.

Gender is just a Social Construct, Donchaknow.

[TheDemonLord]

It was a problem that needed to be dealt with. Sad for the individuals but it's the sensible solution.

Welcome to the Posie Parker position.

[R650R]

Just as long as it’s still women and children into lifeboats first at next maritime disaster....

From the back there’s a cry “what about us?”.... well we expect you can swim well, your lot have been “winning” all those sports events....

[pritch]

If you get past the salacious gay stuff it becomes obvious why John Key gave this guy instant New Zeaand citizenship. He's such a faithful NZ citizen he has since applied for citizenship of Malta. Handy for access to the EU I guess. He wears his citizenships like a string of beads.


https://theintercept.com/2023/03/23/peter-thiel-jeff-thomas/

[mashman]

Smart world!

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/sport/486605/world-athletics-bans-transgender-female-athletes-from-female-categories

Aye... and a fucking weird thing in general to be causing such a fuss....... on a side note, wonder if Transworld Sports will be co-opted.

[husaberg]

If you get past the salacious gay stuff it becomes obvious why John Key gave this guy instant New Zeaand citizenship. He's such a faithful NZ citizen he has since applied for citizenship of Malta. Handy for access to the EU I guess. He wears his citizenships like a string of beads.


https://theintercept.com/2023/03/23/peter-thiel-jeff-thomas/

they did a pretty decent story of the 12 day citizen
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/

[sugilite]

Welcome to the Posie Parker position.

What, covered in red paint?
She seems very popular.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/25/watch-posie-parker-doused-with-red-liquid-amid-large-counter-protest/

[R650R]

What, covered in red paint?
She seems very popular.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/25/watch-posie-parker-doused-with-red-liquid-amid-large-counter-protest/

Nice to see the all inclusive rainbow sideshow showing their true colours. Btw they couldn’t afford paint, it was tomatoe sauce.
Funny their placards say they are no threat to anyone but they’ve assault someone for saying things they don’t like.
Extreme leftists behaving like erm extreme leftists... gotta laugh at the use of acronyms to attempt insult, what the hell is a terf? Is it eco friendly cricket turf?

[Berries]

Something to do with FARTs I think?

Anyway, in the 'only in America' section we have this - The world has gone mad. (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65071989)

[sugilite]

Nice to see the all inclusive rainbow sideshow showing their true colours. Btw they couldn’t afford paint, it was tomatoe sauce.
Funny their placards say they are no threat to anyone but they’ve assault someone for saying things they don’t like.
Extreme leftists behaving like erm extreme leftists... gotta laugh at the use of acronyms to attempt insult, what the hell is a terf? Is it eco friendly cricket turf?

It is even worse than that R650, they did not even honor her enough to use watties Tomato sauce, it was a lowly 1 litre of tomato juice.
Anyways, posie has done a runner and left the country after cancelling her Wellington gig.
Have a nice flight posie.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300839091/antitrans-activist-posie-parker-leaves-country-after-chaotic-auckland-rally

[TheDemonLord]

'We will not be Erased....

But if you say something we don't like, we'll assault you and hound you into leaving


because we are Tolerant'

Just remember - JK Rowling was once a darling of the Left, now she's literally Satan.

Unless you can keep up with the ever-changing ridiculousness of the radical Left, they'll eventually come for you.

[nerrrd]

Looks like we've reached peak protest, anything goes.

Not sure how throwing stuff is meant to persuade anyone to your point of view, just like blocking roads, refusing to leave, turning on sprinklers, playing Barry Manilow etc etc.

Why do you assume the latest lot are lefties, anyway? Surely they're entitled to be just as politically diverse as the rest of us...

[R650R]

Looks like we've reached peak protest, anything goes.

Not sure how throwing stuff is meant to persuade anyone to your point of view, just like blocking roads, refusing to leave, turning on sprinklers, playing Barry Manilow etc etc.

Why do you assume the latest lot are lefties, anyway? Surely they're entitled to be just as politically diverse as the rest of us...

Ho ho ho they are entitled alright... I assume because it’s predominantly leftist issues that drive most protest rallies.

I agree there are prob mixed affiliations amongst that community. But you’ll prob find the right leaning ones will be too busy earning a living prob working seven days a week running an upmarket hipster cafe or something.
Should I bump the Wellington thread... will be interesting to go back and read what the media had to say about “protestors” back then. I wonder how many of this lot are anti vaxxers given their alternative lifestyle choices????

[husaberg]

Ho ho ho they are entitled alright... I assume because it’s predominantly leftist issues that drive most protest rallies.

I agree there are prob mixed affiliations amongst that community. But you’ll prob find the right leaning ones will be too busy earning a living prob working seven days a week running an upmarket hipster cafe or something.
Should I bump the Wellington thread... will be interesting to go back and read what the media had to say about “protestors” back then. I wonder how many of this lot are anti vaxxers given their alternative lifestyle choices????

reality differs with american rallies

AP finds most arrested in protests aren’t leftist radicals

https://apnews.com/article/virus-outbreak-race-and-ethnicity-suburbs-health-racial-injustice-7edf9027af1878283f3818d96c54f748

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump portrays the hundreds of people arrested nationwide in protests against racial injustice as violent urban left-wing radicals. But an Associated Press review of thousands of pages of court documents tells a different story.

Very few of those charged appear to be affiliated with highly organized extremist groups, and many are young suburban adults from the very neighborhoods Trump vows to protect from the violence in his reelection push to win support from the suburbs.


Some defendants have driven to protests from out of state. Some have criminal records and were illegally carrying weapons. Others are accused of using the protests as an opportunity to steal or create havoc.

But many have had no previous run-ins with the law and no apparent ties to antifa, the umbrella term for leftist militant groups that Trump has said he wants to declare a terrorist organization.

Even though most of the demonstrations have been peaceful, Trump has made “law and order” a major part of his reelection campaign, casting the protests as lawless and violent in mostly Democratic cities he says have done nothing to stymie the mayhem

[pritch]

Recent events demonstrate that people banging on about freedom of speech don't really give a shit about anybody else's freedom of speech. Grifting bigots can come and shout their hostility but they do run the risk of being shouted down. Good. This may give other purveyors of poisonous rhetoric cause to thinks twice before visiting NZ.



Meanwhile back in Wyoming.

The RWNJ politicians in the US did not like Obamacare. Socialism blah blah blah... The state representatives in Wyoming introduced a new clause to the state constitution to make it easier to ignore The Affordable Care Act: (a) Each competent adult shall have the right to make his or her own health care decisions. The parent, guardian or legal representative of any other natural person shall have the right to make health care decisions for that person.

Recently in line with other Republican controlled states they introduced a ban on abortions. A judge has now told them they can't do that.
"Why not?"
"Remember that new clause in the constitution? Each competent adult shall have the right to make his or her own health care decisions."

Bugga!

[pritch]

I assume because it’s predominantly leftist issues that drive most protest rallies.


In recent years it's the right that has been expressing their outrage and idiocy. Claiming that their illegally parked car cannot be towed because of some imagined "Admiralty Law."

This latest visitor might have lasted even less time than Katie Hopkins. Good. We've got enough idiots here now without importing more.

[husaberg]

Recent events demonstrate that people banging on about freedom of speech don't really give a shit about anybody else's freedom of speech. Grifting bigots can come and shout their hostility but they do run the risk of being shouted down. Good. This may give other purveyors of poisonous rhetoric cause to thinks twice before visiting NZ.



Meanwhile back in Wyoming.

The RWNJ politicians in the US did not like Obamacare. Socialism blah blah blah... The state representatives in Wyoming introduced a new clause to the state constitution to make it easier to ignore The Affordable Care Act: (a) Each competent adult shall have the right to make his or her own health care decisions. The parent, guardian or legal representative of any other natural person shall have the right to make health care decisions for that person.

Recently in line with other Republican controlled states they introduced a ban on abortions. A judge has now told them they can't do that.
"Why not?"
"Remember that new clause in the constitution? Each competent adult shall have the right to make his or her own health care decisions."

Bugga!


Competent adults
The ones opting out on healthcare or claiming to talk to sky pixies might not meet the criteria.

[TheDemonLord]

Looks like we've reached peak protest, anything goes.

Not sure how throwing stuff is meant to persuade anyone to your point of view, just like blocking roads, refusing to leave, turning on sprinklers, playing Barry Manilow etc etc.

Why do you assume the latest lot are lefties, anyway? Surely they're entitled to be just as politically diverse as the rest of us...

Because I've read the works that drive them.


That and they pretty much say it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/131609703/the-refugee-and-trans-activist-who-threw-tomato-juice-on-posie-parker


“I am many things in one person. I am Jewish. I am from Colombia, a refugee, Ukrainian. My makes my point of view different to others’.”


“Politically, I am a woman with trans experience, an intersex body, a non-binary gender identity. I identify myself as post-gender.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postgenderism

I mean, I can spot the Marxist buzzwords a mile away.

[TheDemonLord]

https://twitter.com/AucklandPride/status/1639504103071182848?cxt=HHwWgMDT9fKS2MAtAAAA

If ever there was a Tweet, where the truth was said outloud - it would be this one:


Tāmaki Makaurau demonstrated its values today and stood up to the vile anti-trans hatred of Posie Parker.

The thousands of Aucklanders who came out to stand in solidarity with trans communities sent a clear message to Parker that intolerance will not be tolerated here.

Intolerance will not be Tolerated.

Within that phrase is quite possibly contained everything I dislike about the current Radical left wing.

It is entirely Authoritarian. It presumes itself to be the sole arbiter of what is and what is not. It is totalitarian in it's conception and it's entirely hypocritical.

On the plus side, I now have a perfect example of them saying the quiet bit out-loud and I can point to this tweet definitively - that indeed, Intolerance will not be tolerated.

[R650R]

https://twitter.com/AucklandPride/status/1639504103071182848?cxt=HHwWgMDT9fKS2MAtAAAA

If ever there was a Tweet, where the truth was said outloud - it would be this one:



Intolerance will not be Tolerated.

Within that phrase is quite possibly contained everything I dislike about the current Radical left wing.

It is entirely Authoritarian. It presumes itself to be the sole arbiter of what is and what is not. It is totalitarian in it's conception and it's entirely hypocritical.

On the plus side, I now have a perfect example of them saying the quiet bit out-loud and I can point to this tweet definitively - that indeed, Intolerance will not be tolerated.

It gets even better. The pro co-governance people have subtly threatened a repeat of the Auckland debacle if an anti- co governance meeting were to go ahead in the bay.
So we should share the reigns of power but not with all minorities is what the chosen minority was saying I guess...

The great thing is letting the nutters behave like this will only drive people towards voting for someone more grounded in traditional values.

Love or hate him, Winston is someone who reads the temperature of the nations room very well. That he has come out and clearly stated he would rename govt depts in English names says mountains about the silent majority’s out there.

[TheDemonLord]

It gets even better. The pro co-governance people have subtly threatened a repeat of the Auckland debacle if an anti- co governance meeting were to go ahead in the bay.
So we should share the reigns of power but not with all minorities is what the chosen minority was saying I guess...

The great thing is letting the nutters behave like this will only drive people towards voting for someone more grounded in traditional values.

Love or hate him, Winston is someone who reads the temperature of the nations room very well. That he has come out and clearly stated he would rename govt depts in English names says mountains about the silent majority’s out there.

I will never forget nor forgive that Winston put Stalinda in power.

Once a Turncoat...

[pritch]

In addition to the aforementioned RWNJ idiocy in Wyoming, Missouri it seems does not want to be left out. A law is progressing through the Missouri system that will prevent the government using vaccines to inject microchips.

Meanwhile in Utah which has introduced a system for people to complain about books they disapprove of in school libraries. Books about LGBT people, black people, or possibly about penguins or sea horses*. A complaint has been received about a book containing all manner of perverse behaviour. Yep, it's the bible. The complaint is receiving consideration.




*There is a children's book about two male penguins who adopt an egg or some such. No, I haven't read it. A book on sea horses has been banned in Tennessee because it's the male that 'gives birth' and that doesn't fit with their notion of what is acceptable.

[onearmedbandit]

At least one state has banned books on sea horses because it's the male that 'gives birth' and that doesn't fit with their notion of what is acceptable.

A quick search found reference to the book "Sea Horse: The Shyest Fish in the Sea" and calls for it to banned in elementary schools in Williamson County, Tennessee by a group called "Moms for Liberty" but nothing about a state-wide ban?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sea-horses-book-tennessee-banned_n_614eaba0e4b01dff4b6dc0e5

https://www.fatherly.com/news/moms-for-liberty-tennessee-book-ban-seahorse

Snopes has this to say - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/seahorse-book-ban/

That's a long way from "At least one state has banned books on sea horses"

[mashman]

Well, that may well have sounded the death bell for twitter, we'll see. In about 3 weeks the 'For You' pane will only be 'verified' accounts coz AI bot swarms. So, the majority of users must pay the price ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa... who knows, he may have some cuckey scheme up his sleeve.

[TheDemonLord]

A quick search found reference to the book "Sea Horse: The Shyest Fish in the Sea" and calls for it to banned in elementary schools in Williamson County, Tennessee by a group called "Moms for Liberty" but nothing about a state-wide ban?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/sea-horses-book-tennessee-banned_n_614eaba0e4b01dff4b6dc0e5

https://www.fatherly.com/news/moms-for-liberty-tennessee-book-ban-seahorse

Snopes has this to say - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/seahorse-book-ban/

That's a long way from "At least one state has banned books on sea horses"

Probably like when he got confused between books banned in California vs Florida...

[pritch]

That's a long way from "At least one state has banned books on sea horses"

Not a long way, Tennessee is a state and there is a ban there. The idiocy is contagious and is spreading.

I have amended the post - slightly.

[onearmedbandit]

Not a long way, Tennessee is a state and there is a ban there. The idiocy is contagious and is spreading.

I have amended the post - slightly.

Can you link to where it stated that it is banned? I see it's been flagged but I can't find any mention of a ban on the book. I'm happy to be proven wrong but so far I've only found attempts to have it banned, as all three of my easily found links above show. And a quick search of bookstores in Tennessee shows that exact book is still available. So it's obviously not banned.

[R650R]

I will never forget nor forgive that Winston put Stalinda in power.

Once a Turncoat...

Yes I agree some things are beyond redemption....

[TheDemonLord]

Can you link to where it stated that it is banned? I see it's been flagged but I can't find any mention of a ban on the book. I'm happy to be proven wrong but so far I've only found attempts to have it banned, as all three of my easily found links above show. And a quick search of bookstores in Tennessee shows that exact book is still available. So it's obviously not banned.

Smells like *breathes deep* Hypocrisy.

I will admit, I don't like to see books Banned - but considering what is being pushed (and having read a bit of what their intent is) - my benefit of the doubt is squarely on the side of the Parents.

If they are unsure, remove it from a school library - Kids that want to read it, can still go to a public library or even but it themselves.

I will also admit that I chortled at the Bible being pushed for a banning.

[mashman]

Serial sperm donor who fathered 550 children sued for increasing incest risk (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/27/dutch-serial-sperm-donor-550-children-sued-incest-risk/)

Must be some good quality shit.

[mashman]

Elon Musk among experts urging a halt to AI training (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-65110030)

"The Future of Life Institute is a not-for-profit organisation which says its mission is to "steer transformative technologies away from extreme, large-scale risks and towards benefiting life".".

"benefiting life" is having the option to do your job yourself, be AI assisted or be AI replaced, each without losing their salary. lol@the brains trust of humanity plumping for trying to stop it as it risks "benefiting life". And even though that's the best they can come up with, it's enough for everyone else to follow blindly. lol@the predictable business response. You'd think they'd be happy with less human resource headaches, but apparantly not. Businessmen eh, doing it for the money no matter what they say to the contrary :killingme

[R650R]

Elon Musk among experts urging a halt to AI training (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-65110030)

"The Future of Life Institute is a not-for-profit organisation which says its mission is to "steer transformative technologies away from extreme, large-scale risks and towards benefiting life".".

"benefiting life" is having the option to do your job yourself, be AI assisted or be AI replaced, each without losing their salary. lol@the brains trust of humanity plumping for trying to stop it as it risks "benefiting life". And even though that's the best they can come up with, it's enough for everyone else to follow blindly. lol@the predictable business response. You'd think they'd be happy with less human resource headaches, but apparantly not. Businessmen eh, doing it for the money no matter what they say to the contrary :killingme

You have to be real stupid to use something that will ultimately take away jobs and give big brother too much intel. Hopefully though with only stupid people feeding it the system will be full of useless junk information.
And it just makes people who can write and research real material even more valuable.
The thing with AI is it never makes a decision as it been programmed to be non discriminatory. Just ask what brand is best for task x etc
It’s like reading a sterile road test review by a writer whose scared of upsetting manufacturers vs old school fastbikes mag where they called a spade a spade.

[onearmedbandit]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/03/29/arizona-katie-hobbs-tweet-meme/

Yeah that was bad timing...

(Not interested in a left vs right argument, anyone tweeting something like that is fucked in the head regardless of which political lies they spread)

[pritch]

Can you link to where it stated that it is banned? I see it's been flagged but I can't find any mention of a ban on the book. I'm happy to be proven wrong but so far I've only found attempts to have it banned, as all three of my easily found links above show. And a quick search of bookstores in Tennessee shows that exact book is still available. So it's obviously not banned.

OK I had a look, there are a lot of links but it does seem you are right. For now. Remember, these people are inbred and tend ot be rather slow on the uptake.
Give them time.

[mashman]

You have to be real stupid to use something that will ultimately take away jobs and give big brother too much intel. Hopefully though with only stupid people feeding it the system will be full of useless junk information.
And it just makes people who can write and research real material even more valuable.
The thing with AI is it never makes a decision as it been programmed to be non discriminatory. Just ask what brand is best for task x etc
It’s like reading a sterile road test review by a writer whose scared of upsetting manufacturers vs old school fastbikes mag where they called a spade a spade.

Coz business as usual hasn't already handed them the planet on a silver platter using infinite economics on a finite planet? but, somehow AI would fuck things up further? For who? Who is trying to keep people in their jobs? Musky et al... but let's do it their way coz it won't lead to yet more intel. Ed Snowden/Assange/Manning already told you the infrastructure in place with regards to the 5 eyes. But sure, AI is gonna make it worse :killingme...

[TheDemonLord]

OK I had a look, there are a lot of links but it does seem you are right. For now. Remember, these people are inbred and tend ot be rather slow on the uptake.
Give them time.

That's what, the 3rd time where you've declared a book banned by a Conservative State/Country/Group and you have been proven to be incorrect on it.

My Dear Pritch - perhaps at this time, you might want to consider that when you see something on Twitter or Facebook all in an uproar about the latest 'Banned book by eeeeeevil Republicans' - that perhaps they are being a teensy bit economical with the Truth.

[sugilite]

School bans Dolly Parton song "rainbowland"

In Judeo-Christianity, the rainbow is associated with God's protection, as it is described in the Book of Genesis (9:11–17) as a sign of the covenant between God and man.

However, this song points to acceptance of different types of people, clutch the pearls, pass the smelling salts, we must protect the children from knowledge of people who choose to walk a different path - but don't do anything about school kids being blown to bits and murdered on a near weekly basis, cuz that would just be dumb eh.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wisconsin-school-district-bans-first-grade-class-singing-controversial-rcna77145

The highly inflammatory lyrics the poor children must be protected from below......

"Hey Miley
It's me, I'm in Nashville
I'm on my way to Dollywood, busy as you are
Can't get enough stuff to do, can't
But anyway, I'm excited about singing with you
So I'm just gonna turn my, CD player on with you singing
I'm gon' put this on a cassette
Sing along with it, and then I'll run you off a CD later
Oh, I'm so high tech
I got a flip phone, too
But anyhow, see what you think
And um, here I go"
Come on
Living in a Rainbowland
Where everything goes as planned
And I smile
'Cause I know if we try, we could really make a difference in this world
I won't give up, I'll sleep a wink
It's the only thought I think, you know where I stand
I believe we can start living in a Rainbowland
Living in a Rainbowland
Where you and I go hand in hand
Oh, I'd be lying if I said this was fine
All the hurt and the hate going on here
We are rainbows, me and you
Every color, every hue
Let's shine on through
Together, we can start living in a Rainbowland
Living in a Rainbowland
The skies are blue and things are grand
Wouldn't it be nice to live in paradise
Where we're free to be exactly who we are
Let's all dig down deep inside
Brush the judgment and fear aside
Make wrong things right
And end the fight
'Cause I promise ain't nobody gonna win (come on)
Living in a Rainbowland
Where you and I go hand in hand
Oh, I'd be lying if I said this was fine
All the hurt and the hate going on here
We are rainbows, me and you
Every color, every hue
Let's shine on through
Together, we can start living in a Rainbowland
Living in a Rainbowland
Where you and I go hand in hand together (let's do it together)
Chase dreams forever
I know there's gonna be a greener land
We are rainbows, me and you
Every color, every hue
Let's shine on
Together, we can start living in a Rainbowland
"Hey Miley
Look, I know it sounds scrambled when I'm singing it with you
Wish I could do a little better
At least, I might not get it all the way through
'Cause I'm not sure of the structure without you
But I think this could work well, don't you?
If not, like I said
I'll write that love song for you
You probably wrote it about some boy you loved, didn't ya?
Well"
Source: LyricFind
Songwriters: Dolly Parton / Miley Cyrus / Oren Yoel Kleinman
Rainbowland lyrics © Sony/ATV Music Publishing LLC, Universal Music Publishing Group

[Berries]

Hope the tune and the video is good because the words suck arse.


No pun intended.

[TheDemonLord]

School bans Dolly Parton song "rainbowland"

In Judeo-Christianity, the rainbow is associated with God's protection, as it is described in the Book of Genesis (9:11–17) as a sign of the covenant between God and man.

However, this song points to acceptance of different types of people, clutch the pearls, pass the smelling salts, we must protect the children from knowledge of people who choose to walk a different path - but don't do anything about school kids being blown to bits and murdered on a near weekly basis, cuz that would just be dumb eh.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/wisconsin-school-district-bans-first-grade-class-singing-controversial-rcna77145

The highly inflammatory lyrics the poor children must be protected from below......

I mean... I'd ban it on the grounds that it's Dolly Parton and Miley Cyrus....

But jokes aside - Parents are saying 'We don't want this' and people keep trying to push it, then they wonder why the Parents are becoming more and more hostile to anything remotely related.

Now - seeing as you compared 'People who are different' with 'school kid being blown to bits' - let's run those numbers:

19,000 Gun Murders in 2020. Pretty bad. If we limit those to just School shootings (the data is a bit patchy) - I get a number of 175 in all 'Mass School Shootings'.... Since 1999. This is in line with most of the Data I've seen on this - which is the overwhelming number of Firearm murders in the US are Gang Violence based and single incidents.

Since you mentioned it in another thread about Wombs - let's remind ourselves 175 in 20+ years vs 900,000 in a single year.

I don't have any hard numbers as to what the LGBTQ+IA123ABCXYZ death rates are - but I did find this: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/research-briefs/estimate-of-how-often-lgbtq-youth-attempt-suicide-in-the-u-s/

This is an Advocacy site and gives an estimate of a total of 712,990 in a year for Attempted suicide. If I assume just 1% of those are successful, that's 7,000 dead kids. In a Year.

175 in 20 years vs 7,000 in a single year.

Certainly, if you had full detail you could parse out those where the attempt had nothing to do with their identity - so let's assume 10% of those 7,000 are as a result of the Identity.

175 in 20 years vs 700 a year.

So I ask you - which is the greater risk to Children?

[sugilite]

175 in 20 years vs 700 a year.

So I ask you - which is the greater risk to Children?
Another do nothing, offer nothing far right answer - unimpressed.

[TheDemonLord]

Another do nothing, offer nothing far right answer - unimpressed.

It's not a far right answer - Suppose you ban Guns - do you think it will stop evil people from committing mass acts of Terror?

That's the question that's really being asked here. You might say 'Well, it will remove one option and that might dissuade someone" - to which I get to reply 'Might is doing an awful lot of heavy lifting there'.

But let's suppose I accept your premise - that banning something can stop people from dying...

Why can I not use that same premise to say that banning the promulgation of LGBT activism can stop people from committing suicide?

And if we accept (which I do not - FYI) that both of these are equally valid - 175 in 20 years vs 700 a year - which is the greater threat to Children's lives?

But since you want an actual solution - here's one:

Suppose you accept that there's a group of people who, if they feel rejected by society, will attempt to destroy society. Let's call them 'Angry, Young Men'.
And suppose you say that regardless of what tools or devices you ban, they will always find a way, if they are rejected by society.
It seems to me that the solution is obvious: Make society embrace those angry young men so that they no longer feel the need to tear society down.

There's a number of things off hand that I think could help here - first and foremost would be accepting that Angry Young Men need a constructive outlet for that Anger and they need a Tribe to call their own. They need to pass a test of sorts to gain acceptance within that Tribe so that said acceptance has meaning. That Tribe needs to give them a purpose and a sense of self and belonging.

It could be an actual Tribe such as in NZ, it could be the Boy Scouts, it could be a Sports Team, It could be Heavy Metal, it could be PC gaming.

But that's difficult to solve and hard to put into a 20 second news soundbite. So let's just ban everything.

[sugilite]

Or just do what the gop do - absolutely nothing.
The fact you do not address the abject hypocrisy of the gop going all out to protect children in the womb and doing essentially jack shit to stop them getting massacred in schools is very revealing.

If your aim is to come across as a calous uncaring gop apologist by reducing murdered children down to mere numbers - congratulations, you get a gold star.

Since you love numbers so much, look at this report showing a quantifiable sharp drop in gun violence when they did ban a fairly limited amount of gun types in the USA for a 10 year period.
https://theconversation.com/did-the-assault-weapons-ban-of-1994-bring-down-mass-shootings-heres-what-the-data-tells-us-184430

How many children's deaths will it take for predominantly right wing people like yourself to stop lying that gun control would have no effect?

No doubt this post will generate yet another wailing wall of text containing a mealy mouthed selfish self justification of why people such as yourself should be allowed to own instruments of destruction pretty much designed to just kill humans.

A native American Hopi Indian elder once told me that self justification is mental masturbation - and around the subject of gun control, there is a whole lot of wanking going on in the USA, and as it turns out - right here in the hallowed pages of this forum.

[onearmedbandit]

right here in the hallowed pages of this forum.

These haven't been hallowed pages for a very long time.

[Pursang]

It could be an actual Tribe such as in NZ, it could be the Boy Scouts, it could be a Sports Team, It could be Heavy Metal, it could be PC gaming.

But that's difficult to solve and hard to put into a 20 second news soundbite. So let's just ban everything.

And that is the Classic Far Right / NRA response. Well...Nobody is proposing to BAN EVERYTHING...Not Boy Scouts, Sports Teams, Heavy Metal or PC Gaming.

Banning Military Style assault weapons for general sale to every Nutbag 'Bubba' that wants one, might partially satisfy the USA's 2nd Ammendment 'necessary' requirment for a Well Regulated Militia.

US Congress has the constitutional responsibility to draft Regulations. Not holding my breath!

[TheDemonLord]

Or just do what the gop do - absolutely nothing.

I mean, I gave you an Answer, a Real Answer that I think deep down you know would have a far greater effect - but ignoring it because you have an ulterior motive is fine too I guess...


The fact you do not address the abject hypocrisy of the gop going all out to protect children in the womb and doing essentially jack shit to stop them getting massacred in schools is very revealing.

If your aim is to come across as a calous uncaring gop apologist by reducing murdered children down to mere numbers - congratulations, you get a gold star.

Except I'm Pro-Choice - see, you invited the Comparison - so I simply gave you the numbers - Turns out one is a significantly greater threat than the other. The argument rests on the premise which is unproven at best (as per your article - I'll get to that). Shall we ban Cars? More children are killed in or by Cars than Guns - so why not ban them too?

Of course the answer is that Cars are useful - and if you make that argument, then I get to point to the 4,000,000 crimes a year prevented (including a few mass shootings) by armed Citizen intervention - and say that Guns are clearly useful too.

Let's turn that argument on reverse shall we - What does it say about the Democrats screeching for Gun Control whilst saying 'Abortion is Health Care'?


Since you love numbers so much, look at this report showing a quantifiable sharp drop in gun violence when they did ban a fairly limited amount of gun types in the USA for a 10 year period.
https://theconversation.com/did-the-assault-weapons-ban-of-1994-bring-down-mass-shootings-heres-what-the-data-tells-us-184430

How many children's deaths will it take for predominantly right wing people like yourself to stop lying that gun control would have no effect?

Let's talk about Lying.

First things first on your graph - excellent Correlation is Causation fallacy.
Second thing - without any additional rebuttal, it disproves the claim it's trying to make on it's own merits: The Assault Weapons Ban did not reduce the number of AR-style rifles in circulation in America - because people got to keep their existing Firearms.

Therefore if the number of supposedly dangerous firearms in existence stayed the same (it didn't - it went up... I'll get to that) but Mass shootings went down:

By your own standards of proof, the restriction was not the cause of the change then

Third thing - What's the difference between a Ruger Mini-14 and an AR-15? Well, they both shoot a .223/5.56 round, they are both box magazine fed, they are both Semi-automatic, they both can accept 'high capacity magazines' - one was banned in 1994, the other was not. Functionally, they are identical. Here is an article talking about it (https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/joannaallhands/2016/06/23/assault-weapons-ban/86251856/) - Oh - and the Mini-14 has been used in shootings too.

Lastly - and this is why I led with 'lets talk about lying' - see, those peaks on those graphs, based on the number and the year, some of them look familiar.., like the big spike in 2007 - that would be Virginnia Tech. Yet... this was not carried out using a Firearm that was banned in the Assault Weapons Ban? Do you mean to say that the graph is dishonestly including shootings that would not have been prevented if the AWB had continued in their Stats?

So they are outright lying then. Cool.

Here's my point - If you Ban guns (say like in Europe) - Evil people will find other means of committing mass acts of terror - Trucks, Knives, double barrel shotguns, Homemade Explosives - the list goes on and on.

Even if you Ban Guns - people can build their own (See PA Luty as a reference).

All you will do by banning them is, just like NZ, not get the guns off the street (less than 30% handed in), alienate an entire section of the Community (who you want to be on your side), increase the Gang Violence etc.


No doubt this post will generate yet another wailing wall of text containing a mealy mouthed selfish self justification of why people such as yourself should be allowed to own instruments of destruction pretty much designed to just kill humans.

They were pretty much designed to defend against the very Evil that you are complaining about. The AK-47 was designed by Mikhail Kalashnikov after the horror of WW2 in Russia.

Also - have you had a look at how the Wallaby population of NZ is doing? I hear it's thriving - I guess something about banning the most effective tool of pest control might have an impact on pests.


A native American Hopi Indian elder once told me that self justification is mental masturbation - and around the subject of gun control, there is a whole lot of wanking going on in the USA, and as it turns out - right here in the hallowed pages of this forum.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'm kinda big on natural rights. And every time people try to infringe on them, I'm opposed to it.

[TheDemonLord]

And that is the Classic Far Right / NRA response. Well...Nobody is proposing to BAN EVERYTHING...Not Boy Scouts, Sports Teams, Heavy Metal or PC Gaming.

Perhaps if they stopped trying to Ban everything (Metal and Gaming have had many attempts to Ban FYI) - then maybe we'd stop saying they are trying to Ban Everything.


Banning Military Style assault weapons for general sale to every Nutbag 'Bubba' that wants one, might partially satisfy the USA's 2nd Ammendment 'necessary' requirment for a Well Regulated Militia.

No, we've been through this. The Federalist Papers and the Supreme Court have shown that the Militia refers to the Individual and 'Well Regulated' does not mean Government Legislation, it means willing and able to do their duty. Well Regulated in the 2A context is extremely similar to the NZ's 'Fit and proper person' requirement.


US Congress has the constitutional responsibility to draft Regulations. Not holding my breath!

No, it doesn't.

'Shall not be infringed'.

The only way they could would be an amendment to the constitution - how many Democrats have you seen openly advocate for that? Virtually none because it would be political suicide.

[sugilite]

I'm curious, did anyone here read TDL's latest wall of wail?

[onearmedbandit]

I did. I like to fully understand where opposing sides are coming from.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm curious, did anyone here read TDL's latest wall of wail?

There are a number of people who say they don't read what I write, but when they make snide comments - they seem remarkably up-to-date on what I've written...

Plus I know there's a few that just can't help themselves.

[sugilite]

OK, that is one so far. The problem I have with him reducing it down to numbers is it marginalizes the pain and heart ache involved - and no matter what he says, the GOP is essentially doing nothing. Look at how much effort they put into their anti abortion measures vs the "crickets", or even worse "thoughts and prayers" response/efforts they put into combating gun violence. No amount of "stats" is going to convince me the gop give a shit and are doing their jobs to protect people.
I mean, just a day or so later, this is what Bobert wanted to talk about, public urination laws - incorrectly as it turns out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGPxOD5X_5Q

In other news, right where this reporter is standing, is as the crow flies about 1 km from where I lived in Arkansas for 1.5 years.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=No_LtW0zq3Q&list=WL&index=1

Another area of Wynne.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=to3o8R3rkKU&t=44s

While I was there, we did have a tornado come down in the distance. It was about 2am and I could hear it. I'm not too proud to admit I was shitting myself not having any idea if it was coming straight for us or not. The sound was terrifying.

[onearmedbandit]

OK, that is one so far. The problem I have with him reducing it down to numbers is it marginalizes the pain and heart ache involved - and no matter what he says, the GOP is essentially doing nothing. Look at how much effort they put into their anti abortion measures vs the "crickets", or even worse "thoughts and prayers" response/efforts they put into combating gun violence. No amount of "stats" is going to convince me the gop give a shit and are doing their jobs to protect people.
I mean, just a day or so later, this is what Bobert wanted to talk about, public urination laws - incorrectly as it turns out.

In other news, right where this reporter is standing, is as the crow flies about 1 km from where I lived in Arkansas for 1.5 years.



Another area of Wynne.


While I was there, we did have a tornado come down in the distance. It was about 2am and I could hear it. I'm not too proud to admit I was shitting myself not having any idea if it was coming straight for us or not. The sound was terrifying.

Two things I try to hold myself to are the following, to do my best not to talk in absolutes (there's good and bad on both sides of the political spectrum) and to not believe a word that comes out of any politicians mouth. I should also add that I believe no one is always bad or always good, Trump did some good stuff and some bad stuff, just like Jacinda did here, just like everyone.

[sugilite]

Yes, I was going to talk about "absolutes" a few days ago, but just ran out of time. If course I agree about both sides having shitty aspects. I know I come across at times as giving dems a break, but I'm almost always sparring with tdl who leans a hell of a lot more to the right than he constantly likes to makes out, so yes I end up talking about the gop a lot as a result of that. With regards to gun violence in the USA, I do hold the gop largely responsible for both blocking and avoiding taking any kind of action at all. So many laws are put into being that everyone readily accepts as protecting humanity from itself, but when it comes to guns in the USA, there is a very large and in my opinion massively selfish disconnect.

[onearmedbandit]

Yes, I was going to talk about "absolutes" a few days ago, but just ran out of time. If course I agree about both sides having shitty aspects. I know I come across at times as giving dems a break, but I'm almost always sparring with tdl who leans a hell of a lot more to the right than he constantly likes to makes out, so yes I end up talking about the gop a lot as a result of that. With regards to gun violence in the USA, I do hold the gop largely responsible for both blocking and avoiding taking any kind of action at all. So many laws are put into being that everyone readily accepts as protecting humanity from itself, but when it comes to guns in the USA, there is a very large and in my opinion massively selfish disconnect.

I try to stay out of the US gun debate, not like I don't hold an opinion (of course I want to see an end to the senseless loss of life we so regularly see) but I don't have the knowledge or skills to suggest a workable solution. I don't for a moment doubt that there are many advocates for less gun control whose reasons are purely selfish, and that group of people extends from the very 'bottom' to the very 'top' of society. Once again I don''t possess the skills to promote a workable solution to that. But one thing I'm sure of, as long as there is a 'them and us' mentality, as long as divisions exist and we refuse to work together, we'll never find a workable solution because we simply won't arrive at that juncture.

Too often our emotions cloud subjects, our pride gets in the way of backing down from our position and giving thought to compromise. While I'm not enamored with where AI is going, I sometimes wonder whether better decision making could be made if we removed emotion, ie human pride, selfishness and greed from the equation. Of course we would also lose that beautiful human emotion, empathy. I guess I'd rather hold onto that and accept that greed and pride etc are just part of the deal.

[TheDemonLord]

OK, that is one so far. The problem I have with him reducing it down to numbers is it marginalizes the pain and heart ache involved - and no matter what he says, the GOP is essentially doing nothing. Look at how much effort they put into their anti abortion measures vs the "crickets", or even worse "thoughts and prayers" response/efforts they put into combating gun violence. No amount of "stats" is going to convince me the gop give a shit and are doing their jobs to protect people.

Sugi - you invited the comparison. Not me.

Again, I'm pro-choice, always have - and until there is a means to artificially grow a human outside of a Womb, I always will be.

The problem is that if you want to make the comparison between Abortion and School Shootings - then I absolutely get to pull up the numbers. 900,000 per year vs 175 in 20.

If you agree with the Christian Conservative position, then yes - it makes absolute sense to focus on the issue that is literally 100,000 times worse.

On the Gun Control issue - I'm going to use the most recent link you posted - it took about 10 seconds to spot the dishonesty in the argument. Now, I don't know whether you spotted it or not - I'm going to presume you didn't (cause I don't believe you'd intentionally post something that was that misleading):

Let's presume you are approaching this issue genuinely (I'll clarify what I mean by that in a min) - then you'd say 'Huh, the link I posted is deliberately misleading - if the evidence for Gun Control is so strong, why would they have to be deceptive?' - it's not like you linked to just some random's WordPress blog, that website looked professional.

But you don't. You could admit that it's you simply don't like them and don't think people should have them - it's fine to have a prejudicial opinion. It's not fine to try and use dodgy stats as a post-hoc justification for that opinion.

And just so we are clear - You and my Mum hold the exact same position, I love my Mum, so don't think that there's any malice here towards you - there isn't.

In the NZ context - I said elsewhere that if there is a mass shooting in less than 30 years after Chch - we will know that the new laws didn't have any effect. At the rate of increasing Gang Violence, I'd be surprised if I have to wait that long.

If you look at the UK (as an Example) the most recent mass shooting was done with a Bolt action and a double barrell shotgun - and had a death toll the same as the Hungerford massacre. Both of which paled in comparison to what happened in 2005, using fertilizer. Malicious people will always find a way to commit evil - the only vanguard against that is Good people, well armed.

Don't believe me? let me ask you one question then...

Why do you call the Police when there is a Crime? Because you know the Police are good people, well armed.

[sugilite]

I simply do not see it as a comparison, or for some reason if one is worse, it is ok to ignore the other as you seem to be suggesting.
You either value children's lives and fight to protect them, or you don't. To choose to protect them for one way, but not the other is entirely hypocritical in my book.
For the record I can see both sides of the argument regarding abortion. Like the police chase issue, there is no perfect answer.

I do not hate gun owners at all, I do however happen to believe that guns predominantly designed to kill humans should not be a free for all, especially people with mental illness. I'm totally open to people having special licenses to own human killing guns, but for goodness sake make them jump over a load of well thought out hoops first. If they are keen enough, they will do it - look at the hoops getting a motorcycle license for instance. Sure, some bad actors will go through that process, but at least it would weed out a bunch of them first.

[TheDemonLord]

I simply do not see it as a comparison, or for some reason if one is worse, it is ok to ignore the other as you seem to be suggesting.
You either value children's lives and fight to protect them, or you don't. To choose to protect them for one way, but not the other is entirely hypocritical in my book.

I would agree it would be hypocritical if there was a degree of parity between them - at is stands though - the Republicans are addressing the bigger issue (based on their view point) - which is entirely fair and pragmatic.


For the record I can see both sides of the argument regarding abortion. Like the police chase issue, there is no perfect answer.

Police chases are a different issue IMO - as I said for Abortion, I'm Pro-Choice - but I don't like how the Democrats are currently characterizing the issue. I'm very much of the 1990s Democrat compromise: Safe, Legal and Rare. Works for me. I believe they've reneged on the last part of that deal.



I do not hate gun owners at all, I do however happen to believe that guns predominantly designed to kill humans should not be a free for all, especially people with mental illness. I'm totally open to people having special licenses to own human killing guns, but for goodness sake make them jump over a load of well thought out hoops first. If they are keen enough, they will do it - look at the hoops getting a motorcycle license for instance. Sure, some bad actors will go through that process, but at least it would weed out a bunch of them first.

Okay - fair points then - if I'm to believe that's your position (suffice to say, I'm skeptical), then you have to agree that the 2019 Gun law changes in NZ were overzealous. We had a Special licence (The E-Cat licence) that had people jump over a load of well thought out hoops first.

That fulfilled your criteria as you've laid it out.

My question therefore is: Did we go too far?

And as usual - I'll grant you pre-emptively every bit of Nuance that you wish to add to the answer.

[sugilite]

Are the republicans so useless they cannot address two issues simultaneously? To ignore one very, very bad issue is neither fair, nor pragmatic. I have absolutely no idea how you come to that view point for any other reason than you just don't care about children getting murdered in schools - and I find that hard to believe.

FFS I'm not say police chases and abortions are the same, other than neither has a clear perfect answer. You say you like engaging me, please for the love of god stop making pointless points.

OK, I admit I trolled you on the NZ guns thing, you have very few chinks in your armor, and I noticed that issue got you hot under the collar. You like a good troll now and then, so do I.
Did we go to far? Maybe. As I have no real interest being a gun owner, I have no appreciation for how hard or easy obtaining such a gun license is - thus I do not have the necessary knowledge to render an informed point of view.

You can look to my first paragraph in this post largely in response to your very long winded last paragraph.
I know damn well the gop can walk and chew gum at the same time - they choose not to. I despise them for that.

[TheDemonLord]

Are the republicans so useless they cannot address two issues simultaneously? To ignore one very, very bad issue is neither fair, nor pragmatic. I have absolutely no idea how you come to that view point for any other reason than you just don't care about children getting murdered in schools - and I find that hard to believe.

The issue is that the solutions proposed are not guaranteed to work. I firmly believe this next part:

If you could snap your fingers and remove *all* firearms from the United States like Thanos with his Infinity glove, you'd still find angry young men who would go into areas with those that are most defenseless and murder them en masse.

Again, I point to your link that you provided - the number of Semi-Autos in public hands did not decrease during the AWB and they did infact increase. So we need to ask 'What was different about the late 90s to early 2000s'.

If you actually want to fix the problem, don't focus on the tool, focus on the perpetrator. But as I said - that's hard problem and when politicians have an axe to grind, it gets ignored.


FFS I'm not say police chases and abortions are the same, other than neither has a clear perfect answer. You say you like engaging me, please for the love of god stop making pointless points.

I didn't mean it in that way - I get what you meant, I should have been clearer. Police chases have very different moral considerations is more what I meant - and so even on the comparison of 'no good answer' it's a bad comparison.


OK, I admit I trolled you on the NZ guns thing, you have very few chinks in your armor, and I noticed that issue got you hot under the collar. You like a good troll now and then, so do I.
Did we go to far? Maybe. As I have no real interest being a gun owner, I have no appreciation for how hard or easy obtaining such a gun license is - thus I do not have the necessary knowledge to render an informed point of view.

I know you do.

Tell you what - I'll take that Maybe. I, myself, would have been happy to join a club and go through the process to obtain an E-Cat for Sport shooting.

The last part though - you've got no interest because it doesn't effect you - that's a reasonable attitude - but as I keep reminding you - one day it will effect you. Then what will your tune be?


You can look to my first paragraph in this post largely in response to your very long winded last paragraph.
I know damn well the gop can walk and chew gum at the same time - they choose not to. I despise them for that.

The US situation has complications due to both Culture, the 2A and other factors. Perhaps the GoP think that 175 children in twenty years sacrificed upon the altar of freedom is worth the price.

And before you jump down my throat about 'How could I!?!' - think about this - how many children in the same time frame have died from Vaccinations? I'm willing to pick in the US it's more than 175, yet most people still choose to get their children Vaccinated. I certainly did. I did so knowing that there is an extremely small chance they might die from it - weighing that against the larger risk that they might die of a preventable disease later in life.

Replace Vaccines with Guns and you probably get pretty close to the GOP position - we accept that having a well armed population will result in some people dying, but having a well armed population prevents larger issues later on.

If you don't like Vaccinations, replace it with Sports - some people will die from playing sports.
If you don't like Sports, replace it with Swimming.

There's any N number of activities that have a small risk of death associated with them, but on the grander scheme have several benefits. The difference is most people partake in those activities and so have an appreciate of the risk and the benefit, whereas Guns have a stigma about them.

[R650R]

The stigma of guns is people think they are defenceless against them... tv and movies make us flinch at sound of a gunshot or even car backfiring.
But why don’t we feel the same fear of footsteps behind us when it could be some loser about to kinghit you from behind for a tiktok challenge and also kill you?
I went past some shitbag loser in town other day, broad daylight he’s riding his push bike right behind me hissing like a snake trying it on for a scrap. I completely ignored him but was ready to getvit on... he bored quickly then rides ibto traffic to argues with cars instead. A nutter Ike that should chill us just like a gunshot but we have t been programmed that way by media justcyet...
The good thing about guns is the sound of first shot gives you ample warning to evacuate or take other action as long as your not victim number one. However a nutter with a knife is silent.
There was a time in our world where everyone had guns, the Wild West. By all accounts behaviour to other people was lot more respectful, people felt safer and I don’t think there were any mass shootings and certainly not at schools....

[pritch]

I should also add that I believe no one is always bad or always good, Trump did some good stuff and some bad stuff, just like Jacinda did here, just like everyone.

That has major limitations and is misleading. You're assuming everybody is equal, they aren't. F'r instance I'd be interested to read your list of Hitler's good points?

Your system works fine while everybody is normal, but when dealing with the abnormal it fails.

[onearmedbandit]

That has major limitations and is misleading. You're assuming everybody is equal, they aren't. F'r instance I'd be interested to read your list of Hitler's good points?

Your system works fine while everybody is normal, but when dealing with the abnormal it fails.

I didn't say everyone was equal, that was your assumption. Of course there are degrees involved, I didn't think I would outright need to state that though.

[mashman]

Too often our emotions cloud subjects, our pride gets in the way of backing down from our position and giving thought to compromise. While I'm not enamored with where AI is going, I sometimes wonder whether better decision making could be made if we removed emotion, ie human pride, selfishness and greed from the equation. Of course we would also lose that beautiful human emotion, empathy. I guess I'd rather hold onto that and accept that greed and pride etc are just part of the deal.

Not sure why there'd be a loss of empathy? From what I can tell, Both Us and AI know that AI could choose to wipe Us out or it could choose to help us. Same could be said for any President/PM etc... and the amount of empathy they project. Enough so to see us running the rule over AI as a potential future replacement. In ways, if AI tells us less lies, it is being more empathetic than those lying. So yeah, don't really get why there'd be a loss of empathy?

[TheDemonLord]

That has major limitations and is misleading. You're assuming everybody is equal, they aren't. F'r instance I'd be interested to read your list of Hitler's good points?

Your system works fine while everybody is normal, but when dealing with the abnormal it fails.

I mean - The Autobahns aren't too bad, Volkswagen are okay (Insert joke about Ze Germans and toxic fumes).

That's about all I got.

[onearmedbandit]

That's what, the 3rd time where you've declared a book banned by a Conservative State/Country/Group and you have been proven to be incorrect on it.

My Dear Pritch - perhaps at this time, you might want to consider that when you see something on Twitter or Facebook all in an uproar about the latest 'Banned book by eeeeeevil Republicans' - that perhaps they are being a teensy bit economical with the Truth.

I wouldn't hold your breath, he couldn't admit that he was wrong and spreading misinformation, rather only that I was right 'for now' lol.

[sugilite]

So no proof of these so called economic migrants then. Yet another right wing beat off, i mean beat up.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/08/home-office-admits-no-evidence-to-support-key-claim-on-small-boat-crossings

[Kickaha]

I don’t think there were any mass shootings and certainly not at schools....

There might not have been mass shooting but from the mid 1800s onward there were recorded school shootings, quite a few by students shooting their teachers

[Kickaha]

If you could snap your fingers and remove *all* firearms from the United States like Thanos with his Infinity glove, you'd still find angry young men who would go into areas with those that are most defenseless and murder them en masse.

Yes they can use vehicles or explosives but the ready availability of firearms makes it so much easier and requires far less effort than making a bomb and is far less risky than having to get up close with a bladed weapon



we accept that having a well armed population will result in some people dying, but having a well armed population prevents larger issues later on.

What larger issues ? most countries cope just fine without the prevalence of firearms the USA has and surprising as it is have less mass/school shootings

[R650R]

Yes they can use vehicles or explosives but the ready availability of firearms makes it so much easier and requires far less effort than making a bomb and is far less risky than having to get up close with a bladed weapon s

You’re applying logical thinking to a process where there’s ample evidence that the people in the mental state required to commit these offences don’t think logically. Risk isn’t a concept for the deranged who have chosen to exit society in a careless manner.

Even on a local level as we see barriers applied to quite minor criminal behaviour we see fast evolution in operational practice. Obvious example being ram raids. Previously disaffected youth would steal a car enjoy a few burnouts and torch the car. If they wanted smokes or booze they would just shoplift on small scale.
Now they think nothing of doing a ram raid.
And thanks to poor censorship of computer games and music videos the govt has almost promoted the culture along with the no consequences participation trophy society.

[onearmedbandit]

And thanks to poor censorship of computer games and music videos the govt has almost promoted the culture along with the no consequences participation trophy society.

We need us a good old fashion book burning huh

[TheDemonLord]

So no proof of these so called economic migrants then. Yet another right wing beat off, i mean beat up.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/08/home-office-admits-no-evidence-to-support-key-claim-on-small-boat-crossings

I find that the last section is the interesting bit...


A Home Office spokesperson said: “There is clear and published evidence that since January 2018, 76% of arrivals have been adult males and the vast majority would have travelled through safe countries to the UK. Individuals should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach. An unacceptable number of people are risking their lives by making dangerous crossings, often economically motivated … Our priority is to stop this illegal trade.”

Curiously enough - that tallies with the Swedish research.

[TheDemonLord]

Yes they can use vehicles or explosives but the ready availability of firearms makes it so much easier and requires far less effort than making a bomb and is far less risky than having to get up close with a bladed weapon

Easier, perhaps.

But not impossible. And that's the point I'm making. The type of person that does this generally doesn't wake up one morning and decide to do it. It's the culmination of a long series of events to the point they decide to do it.

Plenty of time if they didn't have a Gun to find alternate means.


What larger issues ? most countries cope just fine without the prevalence of firearms the USA has and surprising as it is have less mass/school shootings

Well - there's many ways you could argue this.

Has England been better off since Hungerford and Dunblaine? Given the rise of knife crime and other issues, you could argue not.
You could look at countries that have a strong heritage of Firearm ownership and the maintaining of Civil liberties - the Nordic Countries and Switzerland didn't have the immoral and lengthy lockdowns like we saw in other places.
One look at the Ukraine right now would suggest that having a well armed populace is very good for stalling an initial attack whilst you wait for the professional army to mobilize.

Let me put it this way:

In most other countries, mass shootings even in well armed countries that retained Semi-Autos after an event are rare. So too are the circumstances where having a well-armed populace is a demonstrably good thing is also rare.

Whether you agree or not is your call - but I think there is a case to be made for at least the correlation between restrictive gun laws and an overall reduction in freedom, in some instances it may even extend to a causation.

[mashman]

Something went very wrong... or very right depending on perspective

"In the 21st century a 15-hour work week will suffice, as we turn instead to how to use freedom from pressing economic cares." - John Maynard Keynes 1930

Cafe that hires 11-year-olds sparks criticism amid push for minimum age for Australian workers (https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/apr/09/cafe-that-hires-11-year-olds-sparks-criticism-amid-push-for-minimum-age-for-australian-workers)... I've seen the same thing reported in the U.S. Oh how full circle of it all, but with women and kids involved this time lolololololol.

[onearmedbandit]

Next thing you know they’ll make open fires legal again so we can get chimneys back and send them down to clean them. Won’t someone think of the children. And minimum chimney diameters.

[pete376403]

Let me put it this way:

In most other countries, mass shootings even in well armed countries that retained Semi-Autos after an event are rare. So too are the circumstances where having a well-armed populace is a demonstrably good thing is also rare.



Except of course the country whose constitution you hold up as a shining example how a persons freedom to own weapons totally outweighs many other persons right to life

[TheDemonLord]

Except of course the country whose constitution you hold up as a shining example how a persons freedom to own weapons totally outweighs many other persons right to life

You have a right to defend yourself though. That's the key bit you are missing.

If you are worried about someone infringing your 'right to life' - you have the means by which to take steps to defend yourself.

But let's take this comment seriously for a moment:

The claim, fundamentally, is that 'More Guns means More shootings' and 'These evil guns mean more shootings' - America is indeed an outlier - but I don't think it is the exception that proves the rule you are making it out to be.

If that were true - then other well armed nations would experience mass shootings at a rate that is on-par with America. They don't. Switzerland, Norway, Sweden all (for example) have relatively low gun crime, yet have high rates of Gun Ownership and laws that are more permissive than some states in America.

To simply point at guns and the constitution as being the problem is both dishonest and lazy.

So why the difference? Well - first and foremost, I think that unlike the US, those countries I mentioned have an extremely strong national identity. They also IIRC have national service - everyone in the country has a shared experience to which they can relate to anyone else. This gives you high levels of social cohesion (which is ironic, given the Nordic peoples are notorious for not being 'social').

Then you've got fatherlessness - Finland has a very low rate of fatherlessness - 5%. The numbers for Sweden are more interesting - as some data from the EU has a note that it's not accurate. Norway is similar to Finland - numbers look around 5%. Switzerland is around 6%. Given the similarities between the Nordic countries - a presumption that the real number is in-line with Finland and Norway isn't unreasonable.

America, conversely has a rate at around 25%. Why do I say this? Well - Angry Young Men who have never had a positive male influence in their lives - who are desperate for status and fame (or infamy).

Do you think that factor is likely to have far more impact on general levels of violent crime (which includes gun crime)?

[sugilite]

How about some good ole USA federal sanctioned corruption, fraud and theft!
No wonder neither side of the political divide questions defense budget.
Talk about snouts in the trough!

The Pentagon has failed 5 audits in a row. A literal army of 1600 Auditors looking to balance and account for worth 3.7 trillion in liabilities and 3.5 Trillion in assets could not account for 61% of the assets. 61% equates to around 2.1 trillion dollars in "misplaced assets"!!! :shit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHpO_CxlA-E

[R650R]

How about some good ole USA federal sanctioned corruption, fraud and theft!
No wonder neither side of the political divide questions defense budget.
Talk about snouts in the trough!

The Pentagon has failed 5 audits in a row. A literal army of 1600 Auditors looking to balance and account for worth 3.7 trillion in liabilities and 3.5 Trillion in assets could not account for 61% of the assets. 61% equates to around 2.1 trillion dollars in "misplaced assets]

That my friend is the hidden cost of the CIA black budget meddling in foreign countries....

Does that include the two trillion missing that Rumsfeld announced the day before 911????

[TheDemonLord]

How about some good ole USA federal sanctioned corruption, fraud and theft!
No wonder neither side of the political divide questions defense budget.
Talk about snouts in the trough!

The Pentagon has failed 5 audits in a row. A literal army of 1600 Auditors looking to balance and account for worth 3.7 trillion in liabilities and 3.5 Trillion in assets could not account for 61% of the assets. 61% equates to around 2.1 trillion dollars in "misplaced assets"!!! :shit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHpO_CxlA-E

I seem to recall some tens of Billions worth of equipment left somewhere... Can't think where...

That said, this is nothing new - from 1998: https://www.govexec.com/federal-news/1998/12/the-myth-of-the-600-hammer/5271/ which in turn references a book/article from 1986:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-story.html

I mean - imagine you've got young, testosterone fueled males - already we've got a target demographic who are not generally known for taking perfect care of something they don't own...

it would be interesting though to see where the biggest discrepencies are. I suspect that the biggest differences are shall we say 'matters of opinion over value and allegiance'

[sugilite]

Haha, 100 percent expected this post lol. We wont mention about Trump releasing 5000 taliban prisoners though eh ;)

Anyways, plenty of billions would be left over for those corrupt snouts to pillage even after leaving shit tons in Afghanistan and non caring youth wasting equipment.

[TheDemonLord]

Haha, 100 percent expected this post lol. We wont mention about Trump releasing 5000 taliban prisoners though eh ;)

Did they take billions of dollars worth of gear with them :P


Anyways, plenty of billions would be left over for those corrupt snouts to pillage even after leaving shit tons in Afghanistan and non caring youth wasting equipment.

I mostly agree - if you read/watch the history of Military Procurement, it truly is fascinating. For example - I was recently watching something I believe about the Future Force Warrior project - which cost (depending on the source you look at) anywhere from half a Billion to several billion.

This project is largely regarded as a colossal failure and massive waste of money. However it was brought up that many of the concepts that it was pioneering back in the mid 2000s have now been miniaturized and ruggedized to the point where some of the ideas could be implemented at now a fraction of the cost.

Apparently this happens quite regularly - there will be some ten year project that is ahead of it's time and effectively a technology demonstration that is impractical and never going to be adopted - then 10/15 years later, technology catches up and some of the ideas are put into practice.

And yes - Consultants are blood sucking leeches.

I'd still be interested to know which areas had the biggest waste though - my suspicion is that a significant proportion of it is for things that are 'necessary but unpalatable'

[R650R]

Pay peanuts get monkeys... A 21 year old junior officer at pentagon arrested by FBI for leaking the Ukraine intelligence docs onto social media. Biden’s trying to dismiss the info though that western intel has known for a long time it’s been a bloodbath with a 7-1 kill ratio in Russians favour while continuing the lie via media that “we” will win and Russia will go home....
All the military power and intel ability destroyed at a keystroke via a slack education system and poor moral values. And lives of intel assetts put at risk by a young man too stupid to blot out a few bits of info to cover even his own identity.

[pritch]

Pay peanuts get monkeys... A 21 year old junior officer at pentagon arrested by FBI for leaking the Ukraine intelligence docs onto social media.

A junior officer in the Pentagon? He had recently been classified Airman 1st Class in the Massachusetts Air Guard which is a long long way from being an officer in the Pentagon - or anywhere else. That he even had access to such material should be causing a major rethink. Like why did the Massachusetts Air Guard even have it?

[husaberg]

Pay peanuts get monkeys... A 21 year old junior officer at pentagon arrested by FBI for leaking the Ukraine intelligence docs onto social media. Biden’s trying to dismiss the info though that western intel has known for a long time it’s been a bloodbath with a 7-1 kill ratio in Russians favour while continuing the lie via media that “we” will win and Russia will go home....
All the military power and intel ability destroyed at a keystroke via a slack education system and poor moral values. And lives of intel assetts put at risk by a young man too stupid to blot out a few bits of info to cover even his own identity.

You seem to be obvious to the fact he was hired under trumps regime plus in the national guard ffs.....:2thumbsup

one document from early February expresses misgivings about Ukraine's chances of success in its forthcoming counteroffensive, saying that problems with generating and sustaining sufficient forces could result in "modest territorial gains".

Casualty figures are also listed. One slide refers to as many as 223,000 Russian soldiers killed or wounded, and as many as 131,000 Ukrainians.

i cant see a 7-1 kill ratio.

[mashman]

Next thing you know they’ll make open fires legal again so we can get chimneys back and send them down to clean them. Won’t someone think of the children. And minimum chimney diameters.

Could be worse...

Your iPhone Was Built With Child Labor (https://www.thefp.com/p/your-iphone-was-built-with-child)

"Rarely in history has the practice of preying on the weak been so severe, generated such profit, and touched the lives of so many."

[pritch]

The MAGA crowd, well some of the smarter ones, are learning about economic realities.

Their reaction to Budweiser Light beer making a can featuring a trans person was a bit extreme. Some vowed never again to drink Budweiser and switched to Coors Light as part of a boycott. Coors is also part of the Anheuser Busch group of companies. The protest was I believe about one single promotional can that featured the trans person. No such cans were ever on sale.

As the initial excitement subsided Anheuser Busch reminded the politicians that the company is a significant donor to the Republican party. Donald Trump Jr and others started appealing to the outraged MAGA faithful to end their boycott before the cash stopped coming.

Similarly big Pharma, very big donors, have told the Republican politicians to get a grip of the judges they appointed and stop the attacks on sundry contraceptive and other drugs used by women. We'll have to wait to see how that develops.

[sugilite]

What was needed was a good guy with a gun to shoot the good guys with a gun, who were shooting a good guy with a gun.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/bodycam-footage-shows-police-fatally-shoot-armed-homeowner-after-responding-wrong-house

[R650R]

What was needed was a good guy with a gun to shoot the good guys with a gun, who were shooting a good guy with a gun.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/bodycam-footage-shows-police-fatally-shoot-armed-homeowner-after-responding-wrong-house

Tragic but happens a lot. A gun rights attorney posted a good vid awhile ago about aftermath of defending yourself. The gist of it was to put the firearm down as soon as you’ve finished needing it and we’ll before police arrive. Apparently many forget it’s in their hand and it’s easy to wave it about describing what happened etc

A workmate was Gaga about Jim jeffaries comedian line about why do you have so many enemies that you need a gun.... the best answer to that is What is your behaviour to other people that makes you fear them having a gun?

[R650R]

The MAGA crowd, well some of the smarter ones, are learning about economic realities.

Their reaction to Budweiser Light beer making a can featuring a trans person was a bit extreme. Some vowed never again to drink Budweiser and switched to Coors Light as part of a boycott. Coors is also part of the Anheuser Busch group of companies. The protest was I believe about one single promotional can that featured the trans person. No such cans were ever on sale.

As the initial excitement subsided Anheuser Busch reminded the politicians that the company is a significant donor to the Republican party. Donald Trump Jr and others started appealing to the outraged MAGA faithful to end their boycott before the cash stopped coming.

Similarly big Pharma, very big donors, have told the Republican politicians to get a grip of the judges they appointed and stop the attacks on sundry contraceptive and other drugs used by women. We'll have to wait to see how that develops.

Perhaps even bigger donors to the democrat party are reminding Biden about why they don’t want a peaceful negotiation in Ukraine....
Either way Bud as a brand is toast now whatever anyone says, people are welcome to be whatever they want to be but most are sick of corporate sponsored woke ideaology.

[pritch]

Either way Bud as a brand is toast now whatever anyone says, people are welcome to be whatever they want to be but most are sick of corporate sponsored woke ideaology.

History suggests otherwise. The right wing cancel culture has mostly resulted in massive failures. Remember Nike? Their Kuerig boycott was equally short lived.

The attachment shows the stock price this morning. There was a drop when the excitement started but it has been climbing back steadily in recent days.

[onearmedbandit]

Cancel culture from both sides has a limited shelf life, for example the left’s cancel movement against JK Rowling is starting to wane. Hopefully the entire movement from both sides becomes a thing of the past.

[R650R]

History suggests otherwise. The right wing cancel culture has mostly resulted in massive failures. Remember Nike? Their Kuerig boycott was equally short lived.

The attachment shows the stock price this morning. There was a drop when the excitement started but it has been climbing back steadily in recent days.

Sorry I have to pull you up there Pritch. Right wing politics and even centrist don’t do cancel culture. They may encourage a boycott or make personal purchasing decisions based on avoiding corporate peddled propoganda but they don’t do cancel culture.

Cancel Culture is where extremist activists go mental and say a product/business has no right to exist. They will go as far as barricading/vandalising said businesses even maybe assault customers. It’s exclusively the doctrine of the extreme left.

Let’s step back and imagine Bud light made an add that said hey it might be a light beer but it’s still a mans beer. Definitely a mans beer not for trans though we can’t help you.
There’s would immediately be riots oh sorry “ mostly peaceful” protests and businesses stocking bud light would be looted and burned.

[TheDemonLord]

I, too, take issue with conflating a Boycott with Cancel Culture.

Superficially there are similarities, but there are some fundamental differences.

In the case of Bud light - People are simply opting not to buy the Product, same with Gillette. There are commentators asking the question 'How does this person who demonstrably harmed your company still have a job' - but this is not the same as the demand for someone to be excommunicated for wrong-think.

For Gillette (a company I used to use and since they went woke have not spent a single cent on) - I don't want anyone to be reduced to nothingness and remove their ability to speak - I'm just going to take my patronage elsewhere.

[pritch]

Sorry I have to pull you up there Pritch. Right wing politics and even centrist don’t do cancel culture..

There's a difference between facts and propaganda. That's propaganda. Tell the Dixie Chicks that the right doesn't do cancel culture.

[TheDemonLord]

There's a difference between facts and propaganda. That's propaganda. Tell the Dixie Chicks that the right doesn't do cancel culture.

People stopped buying their music, financially supporting them, Their bus driver resigned because he didn't want to work with them and Lipton (a UK company) cancelled a promotional tour.

No one told them they couldn't play music, no one banned them from venues - Last I checked, they are still a band, still making music and touring.

They weren't cancelled - they just pissed off their core demographic.

[onearmedbandit]

It's all coming down to semantics. Some on the right claim JK Rowling was a victim of cancel culture and none of the above happened to her either.

[TheDemonLord]

It's all coming down to semantics. Some on the right claim JK Rowling was a victim of cancel culture and none of the above happened to her either.

Part of the issue is that JK isn't a Conservative, she is a TERF, she's also a Women - but most of all... She's a Billionaire (or at least, close to it).

It's the last part that means she's un-cancellable, because her wealth isn't dependent on a continued relationship. She isn't the face of a company that could be replaced.

[Berries]

What did Gillette do?

[TheDemonLord]

What did Gillette do?

They did an ad on Toxic Masculinity.

I decided to take my Toxic Masculine Money elsewhere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_Men_Can_Be

They had to write down an $8 Billion loss for it and some sources indicate they had a 15% drop in sales, to the tune of $350 Million.

[onearmedbandit]

Part of the issue is that JK isn't a Conservative, she is a TERF, she's also a Women - but most of all... She's a Billionaire (or at least, close to it).

It's the last part that means she's un-cancellable, because her wealth isn't dependent on a continued relationship. She isn't the face of a company that could be replaced.

Which proves my point, people can't even agree on what is or isn't cancel culture.

[Ocean1]

Which proves my point, people can't even agree on what is or isn't cancel culture.

Relephant: https://pc.blogspot.com/

[R650R]

What did Gillette do?

Put out a tv add of men shaving looking into mirror at themselves saying we’re all wife beaters and need to stop it. It really sucks because the equivalent Schlick razor is not as good

[R650R]

Part of the issue is that JK isn't a Conservative, she is a TERF, she's also a Women - but most of all... She's a Billionaire (or at least, close to it).

It's the last part that means she's un-cancellable, because her wealth isn't dependent on a continued relationship. She isn't the face of a company that could be replaced.

Please don’t reaffirm their abuse of the alphabet and grammar. It’s another oxymoronic term as by definition a radical feminist doesn’t want blokes with boobs in female toilet facilities.
I’ve yet to hear of any trans exclusionary radical toxic male chauvinists. I’d love to hear them try chant that acronym lol

Perhaps we should start call them Binary unbelieving radical people. BURP’s
If someone comes up with an acronym that works with Farts there’s beer to be had.

[TheDemonLord]

Which proves my point, people can't even agree on what is or isn't cancel culture.

I disagree.

I think there is a pretty objective definition of what Cancel Culture is - which is weaponizing a small number of individuals to put pressure on 3rd party groups, services or entities to cease their business relationship(s) with a person or entity the aforementioned individuals don't like, often using tactics to make the issue appear more widely settled than it actually is.

Then there are people who lie about what Cancel culture is. Often they are the same people who lie about what Wokeness is.

[TheDemonLord]

Please don’t reaffirm their abuse of the alphabet and grammar. It’s another oxymoronic term as by definition a radical feminist doesn’t want blokes with boobs in female toilet facilities.
I’ve yet to hear of any trans exclusionary radical toxic male chauvinists. I’d love to hear them try chant that acronym lol

Perhaps we should start call them Binary unbelieving radical people. BURP’s
If someone comes up with an acronym that works with Farts there’s beer to be had.

TERF is somewhat useful though - because I'm not a radical Feminist and despite agreeing on some of the biological arguments - I have a large criticism of many TERFs (such as JK Rowling, Posie Parker, Julie Bindell etc.) as pointing out that half of their rhetorhic is what enabled this phenomenon and they refuse to take any responsibility for it or to repudiate their radical ideas that lead to this issue.

[onearmedbandit]

I disagree.

I think there is a pretty objective definition of what Cancel Culture is - which is weaponizing a small number of individuals to put pressure on 3rd party groups, services or entities to cease their business relationship(s) with a person or entity the aforementioned individuals don't like, often using tactics to make the issue appear more widely settled than it actually is.

Then there are people who lie about what Cancel culture is. Often they are the same people who lie about what Wokeness is.

And yes you are welcome to your opinion on what it is, but many disagree. Who is correct?

[TheDemonLord]

And yes you are welcome to your opinion on what it is, but many disagree. Who is correct?

The issue is - those who disagree are getting their information from sources who at best are naive and mildly biased and at worst are out-right lying.

I mean etymologically, I could make the argument that since it is 'my side' of the 'debate' that coined the phrase, we are the ones who are in a position to define what it is. The fact that it exists as a separate word from 'Boycott' (which is generally a neutral term as both sides engage in boycotts) means that we can draw a distinction between the two.

If I were to expand my definition, I could add that it is generally used to describe actions taken in response to violations against Left-Wing Orthodoxy - but I don't think that is specifically useful.

I know what you are getting at - but this is one of those 'I've been involved in this type of discussion since the early 2000s and you'll just have to take my word for it' moments.

It's like how the Left wing will say there's no such thing as Woke when they are talking to a Conservative, then in the next breath to someone on their own side give a comprehensive definition of what Woke is.

[onearmedbandit]

You're failing to see my point though TDL, I wasn't offering a definition of what cancel culture is, nor was I saying who is wrong and who is right. I said there are people that don't agree about what it is, and you said you disagreed with my statement. So therefore are you arguing that everyone agrees with what the definition of cancel culture is?

[TheDemonLord]

You're failing to see my point though TDL, I wasn't offering a definition of what cancel culture is, nor was I saying who is wrong and who is right. I said there are people that don't agree about what it is, and you said you disagreed with my statement. So therefore are you arguing that everyone agrees with what the definition of cancel culture is?

Okay - I see your point - let me clarify then:

There are some people (on the left) who are being deliberately deceptive as to what Cancel Culture is. They lie and say it doesn't exist or they try to put in a definition that means they get to claim the right is doing it.

Unfortunately they are often the journalists and sources by which the posters on this board get their information.

So from my perspective, it's not that 'people can't agree on what cancel culture is' - which implies there's some honest difference of opinion, it's that one side is deliberately lying about it - they know what it is, because they are the ones doing it and they know that it makes them look bad.

[onearmedbandit]

Okay - I see your point - let me clarify then:

There are some people (on the left) who are being deliberately deceptive as to what Cancel Culture is. They lie and say it doesn't exist or they try to put in a definition that means they get to claim the right is doing it.

Unfortunately they are often the journalists and sources by which the posters on this board get their information.

So from my perspective, it's not that 'people can't agree on what cancel culture is' - which implies there's some honest difference of opinion, it's that one side is deliberately lying about it - they know what it is, because they are the ones doing it and they know that it makes them look bad.

Hang on, you seem to be talking in absolutes. You say 'some people (on the left) who are being deliberately being deceptive' and then turn it into 'one side is deliberately lying about it' and imply there is no room for honest difference of opinion. How can you be so sure of this?

[TheDemonLord]

Hang on, you seem to be talking in absolutes. You say 'some people (on the left) who are being deliberately being deceptive' and then turn it into 'one side is deliberately lying about it' and imply there is no room for honest difference of opinion. How can you be so sure of this?

10+ years of seeing it firsthand.

As I said, I gave a definition that is politically neutral and pretty accurate.

I'm talking in absolutes because I don't believe the other side is operating in good faith. For example - they either outright say it doesn't exist (which is a lie) or they try to change the frame of the discussion ('it's not cancel culture, it's consequence culture') or try to morph it into something it isn't so they can say that the 'right' is doing it too.

I have some degree of sympathy for those whose primary source of these terms are the same people who are engaging in one of those 3 behaviors (since they are merely trusting a dishonest person) - but yes - these days I have no tolerance for those who are lying about their actions and motivations.

It's not a sleight on you either, you can be as skeptical as you want on my claim.

[onearmedbandit]

10+ years of seeing it firsthand.

As I said, I gave a definition that is politically neutral and pretty accurate.

I'm talking in absolutes because I don't believe the other side is operating in good faith. For example - they either outright say it doesn't exist (which is a lie) or they try to change the frame of the discussion ('it's not cancel culture, it's consequence culture') or try to morph it into something it isn't so they can say that the 'right' is doing it too.

I have some degree of sympathy for those whose primary source of these terms are the same people who are engaging in one of those 3 behaviors (since they are merely trusting a dishonest person) - but yes - these days I have no tolerance for those who are lying about their actions and motivations.

It's not a sleight on you either, you can be as skeptical as you want on my claim.

Oh I don't take it as a sleight on me at all, see I've offered no opinion on what it is or isn't. I try not to talk in absolutes because I too have see what you're talking about firsthand for 10+yrs, you don't have a monopoly on that, and I firmly believe it isn't as black and white as you are suggesting. There would be many on the left of the spectrum who are not suckered in by the rantings of the extremists yet their definition of what is or isn't cancel culture would differ with yours, mine, anyone who you care to name.

I just feel outright generalisations do nothing to bridge the gulf between the two sides, rather I would suggest they simple serve to further that divide by putting people in one of two camps, when there are many more degrees of differing opinions that make us one society. And that alienates people.

This is simply my opinion.

[sugilite]

My observations is both sides try to package up cancel culture as they are right and the others are wrong - shocking I know. It is two sides of the same coin at best, or the exact same turd with two different types of gift wrap.
The approach I take is how much of a shit do I give about the issue? How did the issue come about? Is it endemic of the company/organizations culture etc?

My take on the Schick advert mentioned by several was this. Schick marketing got caught up in their overestimation of having their finger on the social pulse and they made a very poor decision.
Do I think Schick marketing boffins and execs go about their day in contemplation male violence and ways to reeducate all said unruly males? Not a fucking chance.
Did they make a poor decision in a quest to shamelessly sell more products over a concept most of them don't give an actual flying fuck about? If course they did.
Did they pay for that bad mistake? Yes.
Will my changing from what I consider the best razer ever built for my face - the Shick mach 3 - make a bit of difference in the larger scheme of things? Nope.
Thus it was an easy decision for me. Stick with the Schick and let the cancel culture suck dick.

[TheDemonLord]

Oh I don't take it as a sleight on me at all, see I've offered no opinion on what it is or isn't. I try not to talk in absolutes because I too have see what you're talking about firsthand for 10+yrs, you don't have a monopoly on that, and I firmly believe it isn't as black and white as you are suggesting. There would be many on the left of the spectrum who are not suckered in by the rantings of the extremists yet their definition of what is or isn't cancel culture would differ with yours, mine, anyone who you care to name.

The problem is though - that it's not the rantings of Extremists. It's the talking heads on the news, it's the Guardian, hell - it's even mainstream politicians who deny and distort it for their team.


I just feel outright generalisations do nothing to bridge the gulf between the two sides, rather I would suggest they simple serve to further that divide by putting people in one of two camps, when there are many more degrees of differing opinions that make us one society. And that alienates people.

This is simply my opinion.

And as you know, even when I'm disagreeing with you (and others) I do appreciate the input. Getting back to the Black and white and building bridges.

My issue is that at the ultimate conclusion there is one inevitability: Western liberal capitalist democracies cannot co-exist with Marxism. In the same way that Christianity cannot co-exist with Satanism.

I cannot build a bridge to someone who fundamentally wants to tear down everything that I hold dear. Does everyone want to do that? No, but by accepting the framing, the words and the presuppositions of the Academics, journalists etc. who have been university educated into believing these things - they are practically not much better. To use the phrase 'Useful idiots'.

Here is my question to you then: How would you (not me) build a bridge to a Marxist?

[TheDemonLord]

My observations is both sides try to package up cancel culture as they are right and the others are wrong - shocking I know. It is two sides of the same coin at best, or the exact same turd with two different types of gift wrap.
The approach I take is how much of a shit do I give about the issue? How did the issue come about? Is it endemic of the company/organizations culture etc?

So - the right definitely do Boycott - no one denies that, what I don't see is the attacking of 3rd parties. Case in point, imagine a noted Marxist was coming to NZ to give a speech - would the Right Wing be getting petitions to the immigration minister to block their visit as we saw with Posie Parker?

I could perhaps accept that the level of organization (not to mention biases in social media - thanks Elon and Matt Thaibbi for confirming) means the right is unable to do it.


My take on the Schick advert mentioned by several was this. Schick marketing got caught up in their overestimation of having their finger on the social pulse and they made a very poor decision.
Do I think Schick marketing boffins and execs go about their day in contemplation male violence and ways to reeducate all said unruly males? Not a fucking chance.
Did they make a poor decision in a quest to shamelessly sell more products over a concept most of them don't give an actual flying fuck about? If course they did.
Did they pay for that bad mistake? Yes.
Will my changing from what I consider the best razer ever built for my face - the Shick mach 3 - make a bit of difference in the larger scheme of things? Nope.
Thus it was an easy decision for me. Stick with the Schick and let the cancel culture suck dick.

Gillette ;)

There's a key distinction in your assessment (which for the most-part I agree with) - e.g. I agree The wider executive management team don't give a flying fuck about the issues and would do an advert on top of a rotting corpse if they thought it would boost sales.

The issue is that there is a small number of people who are in positions like: HR, Marketing and other Creative elements, who went to university and did either BS degrees or whose field of study has woke indoctrination in it - they absolutely do spend their day contemplating issues like male violence, the patriarchy etc. - and then they form a Cabal of like-mindedness.

So imagine you are Mr CEO at Gillette, your Marketing team presents you the new advert and you think 'This doesn't look right' - so you turn to say the head of HR who says 'Yes, absolutely this is what all the cool kids are into' - then you call up say a marketing firm who you've dealt with in the past and they tell you it's wonderful and it really hits a cultural zeitgeist and could be a culturally defining advert blah blah blah - then they show you a small number of highly influential social media personalities to demonstrate how 'popular' it is/will be.

You, as a good leader, have consulted with your team of experts (who all believe the same thing because they were all indoctrinated at Uni to believe it), you otherwise trust your team of experts - so you greenlit the advert and then BAM! Reality gives you a quick and palpable tap on the nose.

As an aside as well - I want to draw a difference here - I don't begrudge you or think you are a bad person for continuing to financially support a company I choose not to.

That's the difference between what the Right Wing does and the Left Wing.

[onearmedbandit]

My issue is that at the ultimate conclusion there is one inevitability: Western liberal capitalist democracies cannot co-exist with Marxism. In the same way that Christianity cannot co-exist with Satanism.

So how do you suggest we solve it? Because they both exist, and complaining about the other side achieves very little. Look at the Trump thread, over 100 pages of the same complaints and arguments, my guy good, your guy bad. It would be a challenge to find a post where someone has said 'you know what, you are right, I was wrong, I now see things your way and agree, lets move forward and make a change for the better'. So, as you can't get rid of the other side, how do you suggest we find ways to co-exist?




Here is my question to you then: How would you (not me) build a bridge to a Marxist?

Sorry I cannot profess to be knowledgeable enough to answer that riddle. But asking it of ourselves, no matter which side we are on, is probably a pretty damn good start. Because the old tactics of pointing fingers has not done much.

[pritch]

It really sucks because the equivalent Schlick razor is not as good

That much is true.

[TheDemonLord]

So how do you suggest we solve it? Because they both exist, and complaining about the other side achieves very little. Look at the Trump thread, over 100 pages of the same complaints and arguments, my guy good, your guy bad. It would be a challenge to find a post where someone has said 'you know what, you are right, I was wrong, I now see things your way and agree, lets move forward and make a change for the better'. So, as you can't get rid of the other side, how do you suggest we find ways to co-exist?

The only solution IMO is that we both have to agree on one thing that everyone agreed on.

Once upon a time it was Religion... Until it wasn't.
Then it was the Country, then that wasn't.
For a time whilst we had the USSR, and the ever present threat lead to both the left and right being vigilant to the radical left, then when the Iron Curtain fell, we got complacent.
For the UK it used to be the Queen, I'm hopeful that King Charles can fit his mother's legendary shoes, but I'm also skeptical.

I think part of this problem is that we as a species are not evolved to live in large groups much larger than 100-200 people. The more we exceed that number, the greater the problems become. You can get 10 people to agree on something they all like, you can probably get 100 people to agree on something they all like. 1,000? Maybe if it's pretty nebulous - but past that you aren't going to get any consensus on anything.

If you go back in NZ's history, most local communities probably had a few thousand people at most, there was this over-arching idea of 'New Zealand' - those communities had ways of keeping each other in check and also keeping the bonds of social cohesion strong - whether that was Church, Rugby or simply checking in on your neighbours.

In some countries I think that void is filled by National Service - something that everyone has to do.

Those strong communities provided the foundation for a strong society. I might even go ultra-conservative here and say the Family is the most fundamental building block of Society - Strong Families create strong communities, strong communities create strong cities, Strong cities create a strong nation.

Strength being used in terms of strong social cohesion, not strength of arms or military strength.

There's other factors that I think are relevant - Social Media, instant communication etc.

I also think that the Education system has a lot to answer for - I know several Teachers, some of whom are pretty much outright Marxists (they vote for the Greens and are as Left as they come) I can't think of a single conservative Teacher that I personally know.

In particular - teaching kids to hate the West. Whether it's by failing to put the horrors of the Slave Trade in context (that everyone did it and it was the British that stopped it) or being unfair to the British Empire (it did some bad shit, but it also brought Democracy, Trial by jury, Steam Trains etc.) or Capitalism is bad etc.


Sorry I cannot profess to be knowledgeable enough to answer that riddle. But asking it of ourselves, no matter which side we are on, is probably a pretty damn good start. Because the old tactics of pointing fingers has not done much.

Which is an honest answer, and to be clear I've got no answer either - so don't think it's a Gotcha. I saw something the other day that perhaps exemplified what I see as the issue:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DebateCommunism/comments/1193sh5/how_do_i_changes_my_familys_views_on_communism/

Although the question is deleted - you can see from the first reply all the context needed: Dude is a Communist, has Polish parents (who lived through it) - they moved to the US in 1994 (I know that because of a Screenshot from the now-deleted question). The person who has never experienced a Political system is trying to tell people who personally experienced the horrors of that system why it's not like that. What other word can one use except for Zealot? If your own family telling you 'No, we suffered through this and it was horrible' is not enough, then what hope have I got?

The only 'answer' I've got is to ship them off somewhere so they can experience 'Real Communism' for themselves and hope they get out alive. And that's a shit answer.

[pete376403]

I also think that the Education system has a lot to answer for - I know several Teachers, some of whom are pretty much outright Marxists (they vote for the Greens and are as Left as they come) I can't think of a single conservative Teacher that I personally know.

And why do you think it is that conservatives dont want to become teachers? Too busy looking after number 1 to worry about passing on knowledge? Dont want to give away information when they would rather sell it? Worried / scared that those who they teach will become competition in the battle for wealth and resources? Does it concern you that your own children have more exposure to these people in a day than to you?

[Grumph]

I'd propose the possibility that since corporal punishment was abolished in schools the profession has become less attractive to conservatives.

In my day when corporal punishment was common, it was usually the Conservatives (capital letter) who were known for resorting to it.

In my view the aim of a good teacher is to teach students how to think for themselves. An idea which is anathema to conservatives.

[TheDemonLord]

And why do you think it is that conservatives dont want to become teachers?

Because Education, as an Institution currently, is openly hostile to them.

This is a real life example of Robert Conquest's second law. Would you want to work somewhere where everyone not only thought you were wrong but actually thought you were an immoral and reprehensible human being for simply having a different opinion?

There's other reasons, such as temperament, There's some research that shows certain combinations of personality traits tend towards one wing of Politics and those same traits tend towards certain professions. Things like creative pursuits have a left-wing bias to them. Artists, Actors, Musicians.

Academia is almost all Left Wing, with a few subjects (Law, Engineering, Maths and the Hard Sciences) still having a somewhat even split (insert joke about if communists understood maths, they wouldn't be communists...)


Too busy looking after number 1 to worry about passing on knowledge? Dont want to give away information when they would rather sell it? Worried / scared that those who they teach will become competition in the battle for wealth and resources?

None of which are conservative principles.

I mean, they are definitely capitalist principles. Not conservative though.


Does it concern you that your own children have more exposure to these people in a day than to you?

Yes and No. My Children appear to be as stubborn as me - which is both a blessing and a curse. It's a curse at the moment and once they get a bit older, it will be a blessing. That said, on certain subjects I make sure they hear different views - eventually there will come a point where they will make up their own mind.

[TheDemonLord]

I'd propose the possibility that since corporal punishment was abolished in schools the profession has become less attractive to conservatives.

In my day when corporal punishment was common, it was usually the Conservatives (capital letter) who were known for resorting to it.

There's probably a greater element of truth in that than most Conservatives would care to admit - and I think you are correct - Conservatives are concerned with Law, Order and Consequences. Case in point the last 6 years of Labour and the absolute state of Crime in this country.

I think there are other factors at play - but I will certainly agree that a rigid enforcement of Laws does appeal to the Conservative mindset.


In my view the aim of a good teacher is to teach students how to think for themselves. An idea which is anathema to conservatives.

Why would thinking for oneself be anathema to conservatives?

There's a difference between Openness (the idea to try new things) which in general isn't a conservative trait (duh!) and thinking for oneself.

[R650R]

I'd propose the possibility that since corporal punishment was abolished in schools the profession has become less attractive to conservatives.

In my day when corporal punishment was common, it was usually the Conservatives (capital letter) who were known for resorting to it.

In my view the aim of a good teacher is to teach students how to think for themselves. An idea which is anathema to conservatives.

As a youth I was blissfully unaware of my teachers political affiliations except for a couple. One was first hippy type person I encountered who wasted most of a years socialstudies on South Africa like it was the only problem in the world. Another teacher ex-cop was quite relaxed but deeply religious. While sleeping in a Wellington church alcohol was discovered, all he said was just don’t consume in church guys!
I found corporal punishment quite motivating for learning to think. I earned some arse stripes after a scrap. I learnt not to knee the other guy in face so much as it smears the blood around making it look worse.
Your proposal is probably accurate but it’s prob a combo of both factors leading to current mess.

[R650R]

And why do you think it is that conservatives dont want to become teachers? Too busy looking after number 1 to worry about passing on knowledge? Dont want to give away information when they would rather sell it? Worried / scared that those who they teach will become competition in the battle for wealth and resources? Does it concern you that your own children have more exposure to these people in a day than to you?

Teaching in this country is a low paid profession subject to much political interference. Back in the day many a semi retired engineer or other professional might veer off into education as parting legacy etc. but why would you do it now with a zero discipline environment and the risk of being accused of xyz if you look the wrong way at or say something wrong way to someone.

People of the extreme left know that it takes generations to change attitudes hence there rush to infiltrate the system. Also any university degree in NZ qualifies you to be a teacher, that’s kind of handy after your unemployable with a degree in genders studies or climate change....

[husaberg]

Teaching in this country is a low paid profession subject

The starting rate for a secondary teacher is the same as an average truck driver. The top rate is nearly twice the average trucker driver.
considering the differential in hours worked you are treading water there.

[Berries]

Well I am fucked if I am going to be growing a beard.

[pritch]

Nice little clip on Twitter, doesn't seem to have made it to YouTube yet. A guy went into a supermarket or similar. Presumably to express his moral outrage at a trans person appearing on a can of beer he commenced throwing cartons and cans out of the chiller and smashing them onto the floor. Leading of course to his being taken away in handcuffs. Oh, and the genius had been attacking the wrong brand of beer.

Almost in an effort to surpass his stupidity Lauren Boebert posted a pic of her preferred Bud Light can featuring a photo pf Pat Tillman. If you don't know how inappropriate that is you'll need to consult your search engine of choice. It's a sad tale.

[pete376403]

Nice little clip on Twitter, doesn't seem to have made it to YouTube yet. A guy went into a supermarket or similar. Presumably to express his moral outrage at a trans person appearing on a can of beer he commenced throwing cartons and cans out of the chiller and smashing them onto the floor. Leading of course to his being taken away in handcuffs. Oh, and the genius had been attacking the wrong brand of beer.

Almost in an effort to surpass his stupidity Lauren Boebert posted a pic of her preferred Bud Light can featuring a photo pf Pat Tillman. If you don't know how inappropriate that is you'll need to consult your search engine of choice. It's a sad tale.

The fire wasn't very friendly

[pritch]

The fire wasn't very friendly

Friendly fire is an oxymoron.

[pritch]

Do I recall somebody here posting Tucker Carlson's claim that Ukraine's casualties in the war were seven to every Russian?

Interesting item from MSNBC.

Reportedly there is a woman on social media, very pro Russian, she speaks with what she imagines to be a Russian accent, but she was born in New Jersey. Even more interesting, she was in the US Navy until last November. She started receiving the intelligence leaked by the twenty year old Airman but she wasn't happy with the raw data. She embellished it. Then Tucker Carlson broadcast some of it as fact.

The official word is that she was already under investigation but the investigation might have been stepped up now? The US military seems to have a serious problem. There are people, Democrats mostly, who want FOX removed from all of the TV sets on US military sites and ships at sea etc. That'd be a start.

[pritch]

Damn! FOX have settled the Dominion case for US$7.85 million. I was looking forward to all of their talking heads and Rupert Murdoch admitting that they lied one by one. There is of course a statement that FOX reported falsely but it won't have the same impact.

[onearmedbandit]

Damn! FOX have settled the Dominion case for US$7.85 million. I was looking forward to all of their talking heads and Rupert Murdoch admitting that they lied one by one. There is of course a statement that FOX reported falsely but it won't have the same impact.

Slightly more than that, US$787.5 million.

[sugilite]

Yeah, I was hoping Dominion would go to trial as a public service to show just how fox and the republican party have been lying about the so called stolen election. But I understand, they are a business and decided to take the considerable money.
The damage Fox - the largest conservative news source by a massive margin and the republican party itself has done has undermined the very underpinnings of democracy. This time last year, 70% of republican voters believed Bidens was not the legitimate president.
All fox bangs on about is trans, radical left and CRT issues, while in reality it is them and the gop that are taking the wrecking ball to democracy.
https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/70-percent-republicans-falsely-believe-stolen-election-trump/

[pritch]

Well waddya know! The Dude arrested for wrecking the beer fridge at Walmart because of his outrage at a trans person getting their picture on a beer can was arrested for exposing himself to a sixteen year old.

[Grumph]

Well waddya know! The Dude arrested for wrecking the beer fridge at Walmart because of his outrage at a trans person getting their picture on a beer can was arrested for exposing himself to a sixteen year old.


Presumably one way of personally validating his sexual identity. Not one most of us would choose but hey - Americans.

I see there's another voting machine company suing Fox. And they're making noises about wanting it to go all the way to trial. I hope that isn't just another ploy to raise the settlement figure.

[R650R]

Do I recall somebody here posting Tucker Carlson's claim that Ukraine's casualties in the war were seven to every Russian?



No it was from former US military commander Col Douglas MacGregor and other analysts.


Douglas Abbott Macgregor (born January 4, 1953)[1] is a retired U.S. Army colonel and government official, and an author, consultant, and television commentator.[2] He played a significant role on the battlefield in the Gulf War and the 1999 NATO bombing of Yugoslavia. His 1997 book Breaking the Phalanx established him as an influential if unconventional theorist of military strategy. His thinking contributed to the US strategy in its 2003 invasion of Iraq.
After leaving the military in 2004, he became more politically active. In 2020, President Donald Trump proposed Macgregor as ambassador to Germany, but the Senate blocked the nomination. On November 11, 2020, a Pentagon spokesperson announced that Macgregor had been hired to serve as Senior Advisor to the Acting Secretary of Defense

Defense Superior Service Medal
Bronze Star (with Valor)
Meritorious Service Medal (4)
Army Commendation Medal
Army Achievement Medal
National Defense Service Medal (2)
Southwest Asia Service Medal (2 Bronze Stars)
Kuwait Liberation Medal
Kosovo Campaign Medal
Humanitarian Service Medal
French Meritorious Service Medal (Bronze Star)
Parachutist Badge
Ranger Tab

Macgregor was the "squadron operations officer who essentially directed the Battle of 73 Easting" during the Gulf War.[5] Facing an Iraqi Republican Guard opponent, he led a contingent consisting of 19 tanks, 26 Bradley Fighting Vehicles and 4 M1064 mortar carriers through the sandstorm to the 73 Easting at roughly 16:18 hours on 26 February 1991 destroyed almost 70 Iraqi armored vehicles with no U.S. casualties in a 23-minute span of the battle.[5] He was at the front of the formation in the center with Eagle Troop on the right and Ghost Troop on the left. Macgregor designated Eagle Troop the main attack and positioned himself to the left of Eagle Troop. Eagle Troop Scouts subsequently followed Macgregor's tank through a minefield during which his crew destroyed two enemy tanks. As Macgregor was towards the front of the battle involved in shooting, he didn't "request artillery support or report events to superiors until the battle was virtually over, according to one of his superior officers".[5] The risks he undertook "could have been criticized had the fight turned ugly".[5]

At a November 1993 exercise at the Army's National Training Center (NTC) at Fort Irwin, Lt. Col. Macgregor's unit vastly outperformed its peers against the "Opposition Force (OPFOR)". The series of five battles usually end in four losses and a draw for the visiting units; his unit won three, lost one, and drew one.[5] Macgregor's unit dispersed widely, took unconventional risks, and anticipated enemy movements.[5]

Macgregor was "one of the Army's leading thinkers on innovation", according to journalist Thomas E. Ricks.[7] He "became prominent inside the Army" when his book Breaking the Phalanx was published in 1997, arguing for radical reforms.[7] Breaking the Phalanx was rare in that an active duty military author was challenging the status quo with detailed reform proposals for the reorganization of U.S. Army ground forces.[8] The head of the Army, United States General Dennis Reimer, wanted to reform the Army and effectively endorsed Breaking the Phalanx and passed copies out to generals; however, reforming the U.S. Army according to the book met resistance from the Army's de facto "board of directors" — the other four-star Army generals — and Reimer did not press the issue.[9] Breaking the Phalanx advocated that "the Army restructure itself into modularly organized, highly mobile, self-contained, combined arms teams that look extraordinarily like the Marine Corps' Air Ground Task Forces".[10] His article called "Thoughts on Force Design in an Era of Shrinking Defense Budgets" was published in The Dado Center Journal (the IDF's "Journal on Operational Art").

Many of Macgregor's colleagues thought his unconventional thinking may have harmed his chances for promotion.[5] While an Army NTC official called him "the best war fighter the Army has got," colleagues of Macgregor were concerned that "the Army is showing it prefers generals who are good at bureaucratic gamesmanship to ones who can think innovatively on the battlefield."[5] Macgregor was also seen as blunt, and to some, arrogant.[5] Despite his top post-Gulf War NTC showing, his Army career was sidelined.[5] The summer of 1997 marked the third time the Army refused to put him in command of a combat brigade,[5] "a virtual death warrant for his Army career, relegating him to staff jobs as a colonel for the remainder of his service".[6]

Macgregor was the top planner for General Wesley Clark, the military commander of NATO, for its 1999 intervention in Yugoslavia.[6]

In the fall of 2001, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who had read Breaking the Phalanx, insisted that General Tommy Franks and his planning staff meet with Colonel Macgregor on 16–17 January 2002 to discuss a concept for intervention in Iraq involving the use of an armored heavy force of roughly 50,000 troops in a no warning attack straight into Baghdad.[11]

Macgregor left the Army in June 2004

[pete376403]

No it was from former US military commander Col Douglas MacGregor and other analysts.

Wall of text removed



What does his entire CV have to do with anything about incorrect information?

[husaberg]

What does his entire CV have to do with anything about incorrect information?

its all hes got, remember how cr66 said russia was not going to invade Ukraine...



Russia won’t invade anyway. There troops on border are like patched gang members sitting in a car in street while the prospects go do dirty work and collect debts.
There has been substantial internal skirmishes going on for a long time by rebel groups, many think Ukraine really is still pretty much Russia absent post Cold War changes. Funny how when yanks do same with cia interfering in other countries no one says anything...,,

[mashman]

Yeah, I was hoping Dominion would go to trial as a public service to show just how fox and the republican party have been lying about the so called stolen election. But I understand, they are a business and decided to take the considerable money.

Me too in ways, but they'd already backed down so kind of a moot thing to waste loads of cash on... it was only defamation after all.

[pritch]

I see there's another voting machine company suing Fox. And they're making noises about wanting it to go all the way to trial. I hope that isn't just another ploy to raise the settlement figure.

Yeah Smartmatic. Their suit was for 2.7 billion IIRC. There are also a series of smaller actions aimed not at FOX itself but at Giuliani, Lindell the My Pillow guy, and some of FOX's talking heads personally. Smaller than 2.7 billion can still be quite large?

[pritch]

Texas Governor Abbott may have a problem. Y'all will be aware that a veteran was found guilty of shooting a protestor to death. It seems he said he was going to have at the BLM types, he drove into a crowd of protestors and shot one.

The governor immediately announced that he was investigating the possibility of a pardon. He may be discovering that all is not as it appeared. The deceased was also a veteran and was a Libertarian to the extent that he was known to the party who acknowledged his passing.

So this is no longer RWNJ veteran shoots BLM protestor. It's RWNJ veteran shoots RWNJ veteran. That's different. How different remains to be seen.

[R650R]

Texas Governor Abbott may have a problem. Y'all will be aware that a veteran was found guilty of shooting a protestor to death. It seems he said he was going to have at the BLM types, he drove into a crowd of protestors and shot one.

The governor immediately announced that he was investigating the possibility of a pardon. He may be discovering that all is not as it appeared. The deceased was also a veteran and was a Libertarian to the extent that he was known to the party who acknowledged his passing.

So this is no longer RWNJ veteran shoots BLM protestor. It's RWNJ veteran shoots RWNJ veteran. That's different. How different remains to be seen.

Could we start having your style analysis of NZ crime events, it would probably sound like this;

Labour voter does driveby shooting of other labour voters over unpaid drug debts.
Children of labour voters caught and released after ram raids.

It would be interesting to see some scientific survey in prisons. Cause I doubt many of those that end up there would vote nats or act. Mind you then we would have to direct the police to not be systematically biased against labour voters. To fix that we would have to go around on trumped up charges and arrest national voters en masse during night.
For some reason the idea of a socialist govt doing mass arrests on political bias sounds awfully familiar....,

[TheDemonLord]

Texas Governor Abbott may have a problem. Y'all will be aware that a veteran was found guilty of shooting a protestor to death. It seems he said he was going to have at the BLM types, he drove into a crowd of protestors and shot one.

The governor immediately announced that he was investigating the possibility of a pardon. He may be discovering that all is not as it appeared. The deceased was also a veteran and was a Libertarian to the extent that he was known to the party who acknowledged his passing.

So this is no longer RWNJ veteran shoots BLM protestor. It's RWNJ veteran shoots RWNJ veteran. That's different. How different remains to be seen.

Libertarian doesn't mean RWNJ.

I mean, look at the ACLU - once a bastion of political neutrality (which is why it was a respected organization) - it went from defending actual neo-nazis by a Jewish lawyer on principle to what it is today.

The dude was protesting in support of BLM, ergo a BLM protestor.

[pete376403]

Could we start having your style analysis of NZ crime events, it would probably sound like this;

Labour voter does driveby shooting of other labour voters over unpaid drug debts.
Children of labour voters caught and released after ram raids.

It would be interesting to see some scientific survey in prisons. Cause I doubt many of those that end up there would vote nats or act. ..,

I'd think you would find most of them don't vote at all. They are used to organisations where leadership is by virtue of strength and violence, not popular choice (eg any gang)

[husaberg]

Pay peanuts get monkeys... A 21 year old junior officer at pentagon arrested by FBI for leaking the Ukraine intelligence docs onto social media. Biden’s trying to dismiss the info though that western intel has known for a long time it’s been a bloodbath with a 7-1 kill ratio in Russians favour while continuing the lie via media that “we” will win and Russia will go home....
All the military power and intel ability destroyed at a keystroke via a slack education system and poor moral values. And lives of intel assetts put at risk by a young man too stupid to blot out a few bits of info to cover even his own identity.





i cant see a 7-1 kill ratio.


You really need to tell us about this 7-1 kill ratio. like where you go the numbers from. Was it under your bed or in your head?

[sugilite]

Adding context to an earlier conversation last week where one political ideology were convinced their cancel culture was not the same :laugh:
I'm with Bill on this one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sma7s2UBH80&list=WL&index=3

[onearmedbandit]

I'm with Bill too.

[pritch]

OK, it may be that I'm getting old and cantankerous but this pisses me off. The majority of those bikes are probably stolen. For the Police to be prattling on about crash helmets and parental control is absurd. The Police should harden up, stop them, whatever that takes, and yes there may be casualties. The Brits do that now and there's no great uproar. Whinging will achieve nothing except promote more whinging next time. Meanwhile the arseholes come to believe they ae invincible.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300862383/police-hunting-extremely-dangerous-auckland-dirt-bikers-who-terrorised-motorist

[pritch]

You really need to tell us about this 7-1 kill ratio. like where you go the numbers from. Was it under your bed or in your head?

It was made up by a US RWNJ and broadcast as fact by Tucker Carlson. Carlson used to be on FOX. He used to be on CNN too. He also used to be on MSNBC. That's all the major networks done.

I understand he has been offered a job by RT.

[mashman]

IRD report: Wealthy pay half tax rate of average Kiwis (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/wealthy-pay-half-tax-rate-of-average-kiwis-ird-report/4LECQAM6XJAZNKEPWEWZSMIEN4/)... lol@effective tax rates. Must be time for a redistribution of wealth via tax as a solution pft.

Bank of England economist says people need to accept they are poorer (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65308769)... wonder if that has anything to do with effective tax rates.

[R650R]

IRD report: Wealthy pay half tax rate of average Kiwis (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/wealthy-pay-half-tax-rate-of-average-kiwis-ird-report/4LECQAM6XJAZNKEPWEWZSMIEN4/)... lol@effective tax rates. Must be time for a redistribution of wealth via tax as a solution pft.

Bank of England economist says people need to accept they are poorer (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65308769)... wonder if that has anything to do with effective tax rates.

How convenient that all this comes into the news just as the current regime is about to expire and have a new government that will come in with brooms for a sweep out.
Leftists are always stricken with envy worried about what everyone else has.
But they still support the biggest capitalist business in the world, that being the govt. Govt is a business, with an unfair monopoly, that performs poorly and has no refund policy.
The real issue is why do we let govt take so much tax from ordinary people to start with never mind what % rich pay, govt will still find a way to waste the extra money.

Humans are inherently lazy, if we had a utopia of equal distribution no one would do anything. No one would want to do the unpleasant jobs or difficult stuff.
Too much is never enough so Greed would soon kick in. For Defense small tribal groups would form and before you know it rival factions would be warring over who knows best. We’d quickly be living like some war torn third world country.

[mashman]

How convenient that all this comes into the news just as the current regime is about to expire and have a new government that will come in with brooms for a sweep out.
Leftists are always stricken with envy worried about what everyone else has.
But they still support the biggest capitalist business in the world, that being the govt. Govt is a business, with an unfair monopoly, that performs poorly and has no refund policy.
The real issue is why do we let govt take so much tax from ordinary people to start with never mind what % rich pay, govt will still find a way to waste the extra money.

Humans are inherently lazy, if we had a utopia of equal distribution no one would do anything. No one would want to do the unpleasant jobs or difficult stuff.
Too much is never enough so Greed would soon kick in. For Defense small tribal groups would form and before you know it rival factions would be warring over who knows best. We’d quickly be living like some war torn third world country.

Tis an election year here innit, tax bound to be on the menu. The inherent stupidity of arguing the tax merits of infinite production and consumption on a finite planet are stupid. And in a utopia that addresses that, there's next to nothing produced outwith that which is needed on account of it being to stupid to produce something otherwise... somewhat ironically leaving lots of people to do very few jobs and each of us will have way more free time to enjoy what's left of the finite planet. I know that can't sink in, but it is entirely true. Why argue taxation policy when the activity you're taxing is evidenced to be destroying the environment the very same economy relies on in the future? It's as ironic as an LVT. So long as you can afford the destruction taxes, you can produce til yer hearts content aka infinite economics on a finite planet. Some people just can't handle that, so they reach for the low hanging fruit of envy and greed that've been baked into society, which shows a distinct lack of understanding for how the thing works in the first place........ but hey, it's an election year innit.

[onearmedbandit]

'Infinite economics on a finite planet' sounds like a great album title.

[mashman]

rep...

Solar panels and it's dark
Beachfront realignment
Waiter, there's a crack in my land
What's Green about that
Where did that water come from
Is it hot or cold in here
Oops, we used too much of that
We've already used that up
Gas in the Tank (war version)
A tad windier than usual
Midnight mudbaths
Hope is a statistical improbability
Whoops there goes another trouble free prank (the politically correct version)

Some AI lyrics and cover art... almost tempting for us lazy people.

[mashman]

Not bad, some decent bones to it, although ironically it needs a human touch.

ChatGPT and Whoops there goes another trouble free prank (the politically correct version)...

Verse 1:
Politicians on the rise,
Promising us the clear blue skies,
But every time they open their mouth,
We're left with a sense of doubt.

Chorus:
Whoops, there goes another trouble-free prank,
They'll say anything to get into the rank,
But when it comes down to the wire,
They just set our dreams on fire.

Verse 2:
They tell us what we want to hear,
But the truth is never really clear,
It's all about power and gain,
And leaving us with the pain.

Chorus:
Whoops, there goes another trouble-free prank,
They'll say anything to get into the rank,
But when it comes down to the wire,
They just set our dreams on fire.

Bridge:
We need leaders who are true,
Who will do what they say they'll do,
Not just play games and make a show,
But actually make the world a better place to go.

Chorus:
Whoops, there goes another trouble-free prank,
They'll say anything to get into the rank,
But when it comes down to the wire,
They just set our dreams on fire.

Outro:
So let's be wise and see through the lies,
And hold our leaders to the highest prize,
For a better world is what we need,
And it's up to us to take the lead.

[R650R]

And in a utopia that addresses that, there's next to nothing produced outwith that which is needed on account of it being to stupid to produce something otherwise... somewhat ironically leaving lots of people to do very few jobs and each of us will have way more free time to enjoy what's left of the finite planet. I know that can't sink in, but it is entirely true.

There’s a country’s that’s tried all that already. The state even provided special holiday camps called gulags where no one had anything more than anyone else. Apparently the reputation of that country is not too popular at moment.

Idle hands breed the devils work. A lifestyle of doing SWFA will eventually lead to widespread rape/pillaging/murder just to pass the time.
I listened to some great commentary about China recently. While we in the west don’t like how they ruthlessly run the show a good point was made. When you have one billion people to keep under control and somewhat happy you can’t afford the liberal niceties that we enjoy in the west.
There will always be an innate lust for more of everything, someone will always seek more power.
Not everyone would be content to sit around the campfire singing Kumbyaa nightly.

Btw I love the irony of you using chatGPT ai which is derived thanks to the evil tool s of capitalist enterprise. And what could be more needless than using all that gigawatts of electricity and precious metals for a computer to produce that of which an educated human is capable of? ;)

[mashman]

There’s a country’s that’s tried all that already. The state even provided special holiday camps called gulags where no one had anything more than anyone else. Apparently the reputation of that country is not too popular at moment.

Idle hands breed the devils work. A lifestyle of doing SWFA will eventually lead to widespread rape/pillaging/murder just to pass the time.
I listened to some great commentary about China recently. While we in the west don’t like how they ruthlessly run the show a good point was made. When you have one billion people to keep under control and somewhat happy you can’t afford the liberal niceties that we enjoy in the west.
There will always be an innate lust for more of everything, someone will always seek more power.
Not everyone would be content to sit around the campfire singing Kumbyaa nightly.

Btw I love the irony of you using chatGPT ai which is derived thanks to the evil tool s of capitalist enterprise. And what could be more needless than using all that gigawatts of electricity and precious metals for a computer to produce that of which an educated human is capable of? ;)

No, there is no country that's tried all of anything that I consider utopia. And communism failed because it was using capitalism. The Oligarchs did not roll over and play Commy. End of story lol.

You mean there'll be no cops or anything like that? WTF have you been smoking? Yes, ultimate utopia sees everyone responsible for his own actions (ironically something most shirk in the present using trite excuses that merely project their fears onto 8 billion others... and so on), ergo, society polices itself i.e. if ya see someone rapin' or murderin', it's up to you how that story ends... quite possibly with society congratulating you on that Necklacing of someone who simply couldn't control themselves. If ya see someone robbin' something, all you have to do is quietly remind them that everything is free with the permission of the guardian, or you may well get Necklaced for that too. You can have as much inate for lust as you like, but if you can't actually get it because it's no longer being made, erm. Anyhoo, suffice to say we won't all have to do anything at all. A 'national service' style arrangment solves pretty much everything given that everyone involved knows that giving up some time to do something is what created all of the time that aren't doing anything. Go ahead, sit on your arse on full-pay and do nothing. You'll actually be doing the world a favour, and us mugs will take turns at learning how to keep the lights on for you who need money to control your lust for stuff.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa... What irony? Oh I see, Da Comrade, you sure got me there... except that's not how I see things. Ironically AI will use way less power than the financial system does as well as being able to leverage that infrastructure without another machine needing to be built. It's the huuman that's using the energy inefficiently, taking all day to do something when AI could blast out the entire week in an hour and go into sleep mode between times. Muchos more energy efficianodo senor. Check yer capitalist privilege bro, you might get someone killed ;)

[R650R]

Society will police itself aye????

There’s ample evidence across multiple cultures around the world that in the absence of a formal control structure that the wrong people rise to the top and take advantage to the detriment of others.

The only society where self policing starts to maybe work is Japan. An inherently polite culture due to centuries of carry around a samurai sword to lop of the head of anyone disagreeable leading to a genetic desire to avoid conflict. However even there you have your triad gangs showing the model of stronger leadership rising up to do stuff a lot of the majority disagree with to put it politely.

Another example prisons, everything you need for your limited existence is provided free but again idle time and human nature leads to some messy situations....

[mashman]

Society will police itself aye????

There’s ample evidence across multiple cultures around the world that in the absence of a formal control structure that the wrong people rise to the top and take advantage to the detriment of others.

The only society where self policing starts to maybe work is Japan. An inherently polite culture due to centuries of carry around a samurai sword to lop of the head of anyone disagreeable leading to a genetic desire to avoid conflict. However even there you have your triad gangs showing the model of stronger leadership rising up to do stuff a lot of the majority disagree with to put it politely.

Another example prisons, everything you need for your limited existence is provided free but again idle time and human nature leads to some messy situations....

Society already polices itself. Give that some real thought.

There's ample evidence that our wealth came at the expense of the capitalist drive to murder/rape/etc... civilisations that welcomed them coz they didn't give them what they wanted. Those savages didn't have jails, nor was murder a prevalent thing, nor rape, nor poverty and so on, all they had was thousands of years of knowledge with regards to how to get on with others (which wasn't always successful, and rarely to the point of genocide) and a planet that a since been industrialised by the primitive minds bearing sad tales of "oh but I want and it's only fair" bollocks that they've been brainwashed with. But hey, I said polices itself, not bears responsibility for its own actions.

Idle time is easy when there's plenty of things to do... unless you don't know how to be idle... and just because you do know how to be idle does not mean that you are inately idle, it simply demonstrates the ability to be both productive or idle depending on circumstance :bleh:. I find your white ways funny.

352981

[sugilite]

A geezer goes into the council office to complain about getting to many parking tickets, they don't want to talk with him. He comes out to his car to find a freshly minted parking ticket and the fun starts :lol:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/131894273/new-plymouth-man-who-flipped-out-over-ticket-rammed-parking-wardens-car-three-times-in-ragefilled-episode

[TheDemonLord]

A geezer goes into the council office to complain about getting to many parking tickets, they don't want to talk with him. He comes out to his car to find a freshly minted parking ticket and the fun starts :lol:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/131894273/new-plymouth-man-who-flipped-out-over-ticket-rammed-parking-wardens-car-three-times-in-ragefilled-episode

I mean, this is clearly wrong and not appropriate...



































but it was to a council parking warden, so understandable...

[mashman]

The IRS is hiring special agents prepared to use 'deadly force' if needed and is paying up to $95,000 (https://www.businessinsider.com/irs-hiring-special-agents-prepared-use-deadly-force-2023-4)... cheaper than closing the numerous loopholes that require such action I guess. It's the 1920's all over again.

[onearmedbandit]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/05/clean-car-discount-changes-revealed-high-emitting-vehicles-like-utes-hit-with-increased-fees.html


Switching to an EV is like buying petrol for 40c/litre, which can make a big difference to household budgets," he said.

How long will that last? Considering how much income the government gets from petrol tax, a road-users charge is surely on the way. It's been tabled before and pushed back but you can guarantee it's coming, it has to. Yet it's notable by its absence in any government statement on EV adoption.

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/05/clean-car-discount-changes-revealed-high-emitting-vehicles-like-utes-hit-with-increased-fees.html



How long will that last? Considering how much income the government gets from petrol tax, a road-users charge is surely on the way. It's been tabled before and pushed back but you can guarantee it's coming, it has to. Yet it's notable by its absence in any government statement on EV adoption.

Funnily enough I was talking with someone this W/E about this as he has a company EV - he bought for a fast charger at home - $30 to 'fill up' - which is a 500 Km trip, not bad. However, if everyone was to switch to EVs - just the infrastructure needed and the amount of Electricity generation needed would be massive.

[onearmedbandit]

Funnily enough I was talking with someone this W/E about this as he has a company EV - he bought for a fast charger at home - $30 to 'fill up' - which is a 500 Km trip, not bad. However, if everyone was to switch to EVs - just the infrastructure needed and the amount of Electricity generation needed would be massive.

And the loss of tax income and costs of electricity generation will damn well guarantee the 40c per litre pricing will not stay, arguably it will possibly need to more than current levels of petrol cost (average weight of an EV is higher than a comparable petrol car so more roading repair work required).

[R650R]

The IRS is hiring special agents prepared to use 'deadly force' if needed and is paying up to $95,000 (https://www.businessinsider.com/irs-hiring-special-agents-prepared-use-deadly-force-2023-4)... cheaper than closing the numerous loopholes that require such action I guess. It's the 1920's all over again.

There is no free ride in any socialist dicatatorship except to the gulag. We have to take by force from everyone so that everyone can have the same as everyone....

[Laava]

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2023/05/clean-car-discount-changes-revealed-high-emitting-vehicles-like-utes-hit-with-increased-fees.html



How long will that last? Considering how much income the government gets from petrol tax, a road-users charge is surely on the way. It's been tabled before and pushed back but you can guarantee it's coming, it has to. Yet it's notable by its absence in any government statement on EV adoption.
It’s election year!

[R650R]

And the loss of tax income and costs of electricity generation will damn well guarantee the 40c per litre pricing will not stay, arguably it will possibly need to more than current levels of petrol cost (average weight of an EV is higher than a comparable petrol car so more roading repair work required).

And wear out tyres faster as an electric motor delivers maximum torque at all revs. I suspect that is why many come with low noise tyres so owners are alarmed at the sound of money sticking to the road.
A couple of the pro-ev reviewers have done vids on charging stations. The public superfadt charging stations charge a much higher rate than ordinary charging stations. Prob due to losses via heat in the higher voltage/amp delivery and the much sturdier cables/transformers needed.
If we had real media they’d be calling out the govt on this cheaper claim as others said it’s obvious they will just take from us all in other ways.

[R650R]

Funnily enough I was talking with someone this W/E about this as he has a company EV - he bought for a fast charger at home - $30 to 'fill up' - which is a 500 Km trip, not bad. However, if everyone was to switch to EVs - just the infrastructure needed and the amount of Electricity generation needed would be massive.

Never mind the generation, there is not enough minerals/precious metals for everyone to have an ev. Only watched about half this vid so far but he lays out the maths/scale of mining required/real world capability pretty well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgOEGKDVvsg&pp=ygUSTWluZXJhbHMgbmVlZGVkIGV2

[mashman]

There is no free ride in any socialist dicatatorship except to the gulag. We have to take by force from everyone so that everyone can have the same as everyone....

lololololololol... there is socialism without capitalism. Wonder how often we'll here Civil Forfeiture as a defense.

[mashman]

Australia to ban recreational vaping, crack down on black market (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-65446352)... coz nothing prevents a black market like a ban.

I remember the first time I kept a vape inhale down. I hadn't had a nicotine hit like it in over 30 years and never vaped again as I realised I'd be taking in more nicotine than I usually do. Viva l'addiction.

[Kickaha]

And wear out tyres faster as an electric motor delivers maximum torque at all revs.

They don't if you drive normally

[Berries]

Where's the fun in that? Life is all about acceleration.

[TheDemonLord]

Where's the fun in that? Life is all about acceleration.

Obligatory:


"BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!"

Although, since we are talking about EVs....



"WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIZ!"

[pritch]

They don't if you drive normally

My friend/mechanic/EV owner tells me that they run considerably higher tyre pressures to get maximum battery range. He thought they must be using special tyres. Apparently not.

A potential downside of EVs: if you're travelling on a cold day you can't turn the heater on. The heater can reduce battery range by 20%. Freeze ya bastards. :devil2:

[R650R]

Couple of gems in recent news clips.

Labour MP announcing shakeup to clean car discounts... reporters full of angst about rich getting subsidy and more should be done for secondhand market (which govt is but not enough apparently). Hilarious that being an accomplice to all the climate change propoganda they are now coming to the realisation of how it will work. Only the wealth will have freedom of travel, it’s the bus or pudhbike in rain for peasants lol
Oh how they shreiked when he said Toyota not Tesla was getting lions share of discount money

Also luxon interviewed about maybe banning Vapes. Sour face presenter snarkly said isn’t that just prohibition we know that doesn’t work. Bet she wouldn’t say that about gun laws....

[Berries]

Although, since we are talking about EVs....

"WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIZ!"
Was stood in the middle of a quiet street on Monday taking photos. Turned round and there was an electric car sitting there not ten feet away from me. Had seen it parked up earlier so wonder whether the driver did it for shits and giggles? Never heard a thing. Will be interesting after a few pedestrians have been dropped by these cars to see what happens.

Just like the old milk floats really but without the chink of bottles that provided an early warning that they were coming.

[TheDemonLord]

Was stood in the middle of a quiet street on Monday taking photos. Turned round and there was an electric car sitting there not ten feet away from me. Had seen it parked up earlier so wonder whether the driver did it for shits and giggles? Never heard a thing. Will be interesting after a few pedestrians have been dropped by these cars to see what happens.

Just like the old milk floats really but without the chink of bottles that provided an early warning that they were coming.

Formula E and also there's some interesting videos from FoS on Electric Cars that sounds especially angry when they are running at High RPMs, but yeah, at low RPMs - they are dangerously quiet, reminds me of the warnings you see at Gliding clubs.

[R650R]

Popular tv show that chronicled the effects of alcohol abuse, disrespect of the law and poor decisions is cancelled after complaints by people who abuse alcohol, disrespect of the law and make poor decisions.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/300868395/why-police-ten-7-had-no-option-but-to-end

I guess we’ll never hear the phrase again “thanks to the communities help police have arrested...”

[Kickaha]

My friend/mechanic/EV owner tells me that they run considerably higher tyre pressures to get maximum battery range. He thought they must be using special tyres. Apparently not.:

They generally run a low rolling resistance tyre from factory, Tesla recommended tyre pressure is 42psi, cant remember what the Leafs and such run but I don't remember it as being high

[Grumph]

Formula E and also there's some interesting videos from FoS on Electric Cars that sounds especially angry when they are running at High RPMs, but yeah, at low RPMs - they are dangerously quiet, reminds me of the warnings you see at Gliding clubs.

Saw somewhere that the new class of electric rally cars are going to have to be fitted with an audible approach noise generator.

Spectators wandering deep in a forest stage could well be caught unaware by a fast approaching electric. Potentially messy.

No idea what they will sound like - but how long before someone plays heavy metal at high volume.....

[TheDemonLord]

but how long before someone plays heavy metal at high volume.....

Okay, I'm sold.

Either that or Ride of the Valkyries (Apocalypse Now style).

On a side note - I heard about someone in the second Gulf war that figured out how to mount a PA system to an M1 Abrams tank - the story goes that they were playing 'Bodies' by Drowning Pool...

[pritch]

At a conference in Turkey a Russian delegate tried to steal the Ukrainian flag. A Ukranian delegate was not impressed. Looks like the Russian took a whack on the snout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRalwGp3Au0




Update: I was wondering what conference would have both Russian and Ukranian attendees. It was a meeting of member countries of the Black Sea economic zone.

[Berries]

Either that or Ride of the Valkyries (Apocalypse Now style).

This would work -

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/B_DUoRH5v-0" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[R650R]

Methdealers and organised crime won’t need to go to casino to launder money anymore...

Reverse ATM the ultimate expression of human stupidity....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwNJkfwDwHU&pp=ygURQ0xvd24gcGxhbmV0IGh1aCA%3D

[pritch]

George Santos has been charged in federal court. George was elected to Congress from a New York district. The press, including ours, reported that he had embellished his CV. That was incorrect use of language, his whole life history was a work of fiction. Virtually nothing was real. In matters of fund raising and expenditure though facts do matter.

Justice in the US moves slow, sometimes though it does actually move.

[R650R]

Some serious riding by Aussie bike cops, they don’t muck about.

The ending is pure gold


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJdpIGaUAmc&pp=ygUSUmlvdGFjdCBlIHNjb290ZXIg

[onearmedbandit]

They don't quite have the style of the Brazilian cops on bikes but a top effort nonetheless.

[R650R]

Fake meat... there’s proving to be some problems....

https://joannenova.com.au/2023/05/fake-meat-could-make-25-times-more-co2-than-real-beef/

It turns out that replicating a cow in a laboratory is not as simple as expected. A new study points at some very major and potentially very hard to solve problems with laboratory meat. We can scale up vats of bacteria in factories easily, but animal cells are very different. Muscle cells not only need a sterile complicated broth but they are basically a sitting-duck feast for any bacteria.

Quote of the day:

“USD 2 billion has already been invested in this technology, but we don’t really know if it will be better for the environment,” Risner said.

Think of a cow as being an entire industrial production campus for meat — to deal with chemical toxins it comes with a customized chemical factory (a liver) and two industrial filter systems (kidneys), and a full immune defense force on a 24 hour watch to deal with the constant flood of microbial contaminants. Cows also have nutrient intake systems to break down grass into separate chemical components which are stored, transported and chemically tweaked to suit. All departments are self repairing, and are equipped with their own laboratory testing, messaging and alert service. The sterile growth conditions of muscle are maintained most of the time in close proximity to dirt and poo. The biological machinery has been road-tested and refined for a half a billion years. Yet somehow we thought we could replicate all that and do it more efficiently in a couple of decades.

Instead of thirty factories, 200 labs, 2000 trucks and sterilized vats of heated pharmaceutical grade goo, we could just use a cow.

In 2013, the first cultured burger patty cost €250,000.

It takes a lot of energy to replicate a cow
It’s not enough to kill bacteria in the growth broth, we have to remove the dead body parts of the bacteria too. The outside shell of many bacteria breaks up into is what we call an endotoxin. You may not know it but these are just bad, bad, bad — they are lipopolysaccarides that sometimes leak from our intestinal walls and trigger fever, nausea, inflammation, shivering and shock. So the dead parts of bacteria have to be cleaned out of the broth — which means chromatography, or ultrafiltration, or ion exchanges, and fine membranes. All of which uses lots of energy.


The broth itself must contain salts, sugars, amino acids, and vitamins, and the production of each of these elements involves an expenditure of energy.

This “pharmaceutical” level of purification is essential as animal cells will not grow in a broth that is “contaminated” with bacteria. Experts involved in improving the process are testing to what extent it is possible to move away from purification.

The paper’s first author, Derrick Risner of the University of California (U.S.), in a commentary for “New Scientist”, expressed doubt that moving away from “pharmaceutical” levels of broth purification would be possible since even trace levels of contamination can destroy animal cell cultures.

From the paper — we used to use serum from baby cow blood to grow cells in culture but that is an 18 step process and energy intensive…

Animal cell culture is inherently different than culturing bacteria or yeast cells due to their enhanced sensitivity to environmental factors, chemical and microbial contamination. This can be illustrated by the industrial shift to single use bioreactors for monoclonal antibody production to reduce costs associated with contamination (Jacquemart et al., 2016). Animal cell growth mediums have historically utilized fetal bovine serum (FBS) which contains a variety of hormones and growth factors (Jochems et al., 2002). Serum is blood with the cells, platelets and clotting factors removed. Processing of FBS to be utilized for animal cell culture is an 18-step process that is resource intensive due to the level of refinement required for animal cell culture. Thus, the authors believe that commercial production of an ACBM product utilizing FBS or any other animal product to be highly unlikely given this high level of refinement.

The authors say they might be underestimating the costs.

The requirement of endotoxin removal would also contribute to the environmental impact of ACBM products which makes our LCIA results for the minimum scenarios to be underestimated minimums. Utilization of commodity grade growth medium components such as glucose for animal cell growth is unlikely unless the components undergo an endotoxin separation process. The effect of endotoxin can vary greatly depending on cell type and source; however 25 ng/ml of endotoxin was shown to cause cell apoptosis when coupled with non-lethal heat shock (Corning, 2020).

Endotoxins kill cells at just 25 nanograms per ml. The purity required in a complicated mixture on a commerical scale needs Olympic level chemistry. It’s like feeding pharmaceutical grade drugs to your cows instead of grass. This isn’t going to scale up well.

[R650R]

OMG teaching yoga is now cultural appropriation

https://i.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/131876337/kiwi-yoga-studios-criticised-for-appropriating-hindu-practice

Is it still cultural appropriation when a minority adopts practices of the coloniser??? Asking for a friend lol

I always used to get s laugh when my local massage chick would do all her namaste routine, burning Incense talking about spiritual energy etc... then nek minnit “Alexa play relaxation music” 😂😂😂😂😂

[pritch]

Back at the time of the last US election Rudy Giuliani produced "proof" that election workers Ruby Freeman and her daughter were mishandling voting papers. It was all nonsense of course, but the two were subjected to a deluge of hate mail and death threats.

The pair now have a legal action proceeding against Giuliani. In connection with this a subpoena has been issued requiring Jenna Ellis to be available for a deposition, but she has proved very difficult to serve. Despite the use of private investigators she has been uncontactable. Her safety might be a concern in the circumstances, except that she is still active on social media.

Normally a subpoena must be handed to the person who is the subject of it. The judge has finally had enough though. The judge has approved that the subpoena be issued to the law firm that represented her previously, to her last known address. In a radical departure the judge also approved that the subpoena be sent to her social media accounts at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. She will then be considered to have been served. (I'm not sure how you DM someone on Twitter if they don't follow you but OK.)

You may remember Jenna, it was she who was sitting next to Rudy when he farted audibly during one of his bogus voter fraud hearings. There are a number of clips on YouTube but all have 'baggage' attached.

[TheDemonLord]

Normally a subpoena must be handed to the person who is the subject of it. The judge has finally had enough though. The judge has approved that the subpoena be issued to the law firm that represented her previously, to her last known address. In a radical departure the judge also approved that the subpoena be sent to her social media accounts at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. She will then be considered to have been served. (I'm not sure how you DM someone on Twitter if they don't follow you but OK.)


I can't wait to see how the implications of this play out.

[husaberg]

Back at the time of the last US election Rudy Giuliani produced "proof" that election workers Ruby Freeman and her daughter were mishandling voting papers. It was all nonsense of course, but the two were subjected to a deluge of hate mail and death threats.

The pair now have a legal action proceeding against Giuliani. In connection with this a subpoena has been issued requiring Jenna Ellis to be available for a deposition, but she has proved very difficult to serve. Despite the use of private investigators she has been uncontactable. Her safety might be a concern in the circumstances, except that she is still active on social media.

Normally a subpoena must be handed to the person who is the subject of it. The judge has finally had enough though. The judge has approved that the subpoena be issued to the law firm that represented her previously, to her last known address. In a radical departure the judge also approved that the subpoena be sent to her social media accounts at Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. She will then be considered to have been served. (I'm not sure how you DM someone on Twitter if they don't follow you but OK.)

You may remember Jenna, it was she who was sitting next to Rudy when he farted audibly during one of his bogus voter fraud hearings. There are a number of clips on YouTube but all have 'baggage' attached.


Wasn't she also patient zero when covid hit the white house?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqXtiQ20BLw

The other stars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofFjdL6q_18&t=128s

[R650R]

Just for a laugh.... stop jacking off you degenerates some people are sick of the rain 😂😂😂😂


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc405LCj5oM&pp=ygUMVGhlIHBsYXRmb3Jt

[pritch]

It is reported that in another legal action against Rudy Giuliani a former employee is alleging sexual abuse. Sexual activity was a condition of employment, she apparently has recordings and emails. It's all very lurid but she also claims that Giuliani told her he was selling pardons for two million dollars which would be split between him and Trump.

We'll see.

[Grumph]

It never ceases to surprise me how many different ways that crowd have come up with to monetise the Presidency.

[pritch]

A commentator I see online has been saying for some time that the Governors of redneck states were jeopardising their continued hosting of military bases. The military bases in broke arsed states contribute hugely to the economy of those states. Yet the Republican governments of those states with their anti abortion, anti LGBTQ, etc etc are placing, or trying to place, restrictions on the movements of serving personnel. This affects "readiness" which to the military is key. The implication is that bases could move or personnel numbers be reduced in 'unfriendly' locations.

The Headquarters of Trump's Spaceforce was to have been established in Alabama which has been leading the "anti" crusade. It has now been announced that the site of the proposed headquarters of Spaceforce is to be moved to Colorado. Republican politicians will fight this, they'll blame Biden. It won't have been Biden, the decision will have been made by the US Air Force which is the departmental umbrella under which Spaceforce operates. Biden may support it, but it will have been the generals who decided.

Whichever way this goes, and it's complicated by there having been an official announcement that the HQ was to be built in Alabama, it probably won't be unique. Other bases may move or be reduced in size if the host state makes laws that impinge on operational readiness.

[R650R]

Do you care to provide any accurate examples and numbers of the effect on operational readiness they said laws are having?
I’d like to think that a women who joins the military is likely more of the traditional family values type and would be more inclined to give birth than have an abortion.
If you compare it to the civilian workforce a women being out of action due to pregnancy is no different from all the other life occurances that randomly cause extended absence eg car accident or cancer etc...
The affected personnel could easily state their case at recruitment time and serve at an appropriately located base or get transfer.
Sounds like a populist soundbite that in reality would make a minuscule measured effect.

This six part series is worth a watch


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlDWzN6TW5Y&pp=ygUaY2FsaWZvcm5pYW5zIG1vdmUgdG8gdGV4YXM%3D

[Berries]

I’d like to think that a women who joins the military is likely more of the traditional family values type and would be more inclined to give birth than have an abortion.
Fucking hell. You know you said that out loud right?

[pritch]

Do you care to provide any accurate examples and numbers of the effect on operational readiness they said laws are having?


No.

It’s being reported that Laura Ingraham has been fired by FOX. In the current circumstances she could be picked up by CNN.

Update on Ingraham: https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/fox-news-shoots-down-rumors-from-left-wing-activists-that-laura-ingraham-is-getting-fired/ar-AA1bkDkF

[husaberg]

Fucking hell. You know you said that out loud right?

TBH he prefaced it with "i'd like to think" so one could conclude its an aspirational goal after all he is a modern day tinman
Clearly a lifelong friend of Dorothy........;)

[mashman]

Fucking hell. You know you said that out loud right?

I cocked my head at that one too.

Anyhoo...

We are selling a product that we hope gets discontinued (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65572881)

The lunacy that is capitalism. Ya can't just stop producing it coz someone else will take your place and to hell with any consequences, I mean externalities :killingme

[pete376403]

I cocked my head at that one too.

Anyhoo...

We are selling a product that we hope gets discontinued (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65572881)

The lunacy that is capitalism. Ya can't just stop producing it coz someone else will take your place and to hell with any consequences, I mean externalities :killingme

Not really, They recognise that Silver carp are destructive to the enviroment and will keep multiplying whether they get used for anything or not. Scooping up as many as possible and turning them into dog food is helping the environment. In a perfect world the fish wouldb't be in the rivers at all, but they are, and this company is trying to reduce the impact.

[R650R]

Fucking hell. You know you said that out loud right?

Anyone who is prepared to serve in the military is willing to sacrifice their own life for the good of the nation and their fellow man or woman. I’m sure they’d be willing to sacrifice career goals briefly to bring another good person into the world.
Anyhow the original post replied to was based on speculation that individual states policies would somehow dramatically affect females serving in the military in those states.
In reality it’s prob a small blip in regard to relevant statistics and I doubt the USA military would even keep stats on the small number of people that would be affected in such circumstances.
And even if they did being such a hot potato (or bun in the oven) I doubt they would make public such info.
The real issue facing the military is the pandemic of dumbness. Typically the army draws from the lower end of the social spectrum but now many people are too dangerously dumb to be allowed in army as iq has dropped that much. You don’t want to waste time training people who might shoot themselves in the foot etc.,,,
I really doubt we’ll see this issue materialise any further than an episode of elllen degegeberes.
The reality is armed forces are facing a recruiting crisis over much larger issues than this.

[pritch]

I really doubt we’ll see this issue materialise any further than an episode of elllen degegeberes.
The reality is armed forces are facing a recruiting crisis over much larger issues than this.

So your take on a headquarters moving from redneck central to Colorado is?

[R650R]

So your take on a headquarters moving from redneck central to Colorado is?

Perhaps someone in top brass likes to go skiing ⛷

[Pursang]

Perhaps someone in top brass likes to go skiing ⛷

So? The US Military makes monumental operational decisions based on the selfish whims of a senior official!! Sounds more like the GOP!

[mashman]

Not really, They recognise that Silver carp are destructive to the enviroment and will keep multiplying whether they get used for anything or not. Scooping up as many as possible and turning them into dog food is helping the environment. In a perfect world the fish wouldb't be in the rivers at all, but they are, and this company is trying to reduce the impact.

There is now demand, but sure, from that company's point of view they're doing a service that's almost 50 years too late... something that capitalism created, and then recognised that it couldn't afford to do anything about it and the mess gets left as externalities that someone can hopefully make a buck off in order to try to start to cleanup the problem.

[pete376403]

There is now demand, but sure, from that company's point of view they're doing a service that's almost 50 years too late... something that capitalism created, and then recognised that it couldn't afford to do anything about it and the mess gets left as externalities that someone can hopefully make a buck off in order to try to start to cleanup the problem.

So what would you prefer? That they do nothing and allow the problem to escalate even more? Lacking a suitable time-machine to stop a problem before it occurs, all anyone can try and do is repair the manage that was done a long time ago.

[mashman]

So what would you prefer? That they do nothing and allow the problem to escalate even more? Lacking a suitable time-machine to stop a problem before it occurs, all anyone can try and do is repair the manage that was done a long time ago.

I would prefer, give the lack of a time machine, that they sorted it out no matter what the financial cost if the environment is that important. I suspect capitalism will win, again.

[pritch]

Perhaps someone in top brass likes to go skiing ⛷

It doesn't only apply to the military. The Governor of Florida declared war on Disney, the states biggest employer, because they wouldn't support his "Don't say gay" policy. They didn't actually oppose him, they just basically said they weren't interested in the sexual preferences of their staff.

He has implemented a series of policies and law changes to disadvantage Disney but they have so far out thought him. (Of course they have better lawyers.). Disney were to build a big campus in Florida to house 1000 of their 'imagineers'. Average pay about $US120,000 pa. About 120 million per year in wages alone. Disney have announced the project will now remain in California.

If the Governor seems a bit weird, check out his wife. I'm not the expert, but she seems to be wearing evening dress in the day time. Full length capes and elbow length white gloves?

[husaberg]

If the Governor seems a bit weird, check out his wife. I'm not the expert, but she seems to be wearing evening dress in the day time. Full length capes and elbow length white gloves?

trying to hard to be Jackie K/O
353115353116

353117

[mashman]

'The whole thing stinks': UK water forms to pay (GBP)15 billion to shareholders as customers foot sewage bill. (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/may/20/the-whole-thing-stinks-uk-water-firms-to-pay-15bn-to-shareholders-as-customers-foot-sewage-bill)... Capitalism works :killingme...

------------------------------------------------------------

Overpopulation: I use far more in terms of resources than you do, therefore you do the same damage as me :killingme..........

[pete376403]

'The whole thing stinks': UK water forms to pay (GBP)15 billion to shareholders as customers foot sewage bill. (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/may/20/the-whole-thing-stinks-uk-water-firms-to-pay-15bn-to-shareholders-as-customers-foot-sewage-bill)... Capitalism works :killingme...

------------------------------------------------------------

Overpopulation: I use far more in terms of resources than you do, therefore you do the same damage as me :killingme..........


Looking forward to privatisation of water resources in this country now that Three Waters has been stopped, largely due to protests from local bodies even though they will be the ones on the hook for massive expenditure in water infrastructure repairs and improvements after decades of neglect. Councils will see selling off the water as the only way out, and there will be no shortage of foreign capital/ownership waiting to snap it up. Auckland under Wayne Brown will be probably first to go.

[Pursang]

The Governor of Florida declared war on Disney, the states biggest employer, because they wouldn't support his "Don't say gay" policy. They didn't actually oppose him, they just basically said they weren't interested in the sexual preferences of their staff.

A major public corporation (like Disney) must maximise it's profit by juggling and optimising the requirements of it's shareholders, it's customers, and it's staff... Basic Capitalism!

The Governor of Florida is Just trying to impress Trump's hard MAGA base, in order to trump Trump in the republican primary race. To Hell with any other criteria!

[mashman]

Looking forward to privatisation of water resources in this country now that Three Waters has been stopped, largely due to protests from local bodies even though they will be the ones on the hook for massive expenditure in water infrastructure repairs and improvements after decades of neglect. Councils will see selling off the water as the only way out, and there will be no shortage of foreign capital/ownership waiting to snap it up. Auckland under Wayne Brown will be probably first to go.

I didn't follow that one. Can only guess the LGFA is gonna be a bit busier than usual.

[R650R]

Looking forward to privatisation of water resources in this country now that Three Waters has been stopped, largely due to protests from local bodies even though they will be the ones on the hook for massive expenditure in water infrastructure repairs and improvements after decades of neglect. Councils will see selling off the water as the only way out, and there will be no shortage of foreign capital/ownership waiting to snap it up. Auckland under Wayne Brown will be probably first to go.

Three waters (actually called six waters because they added in rain and foreshore/seabed by stealth and number six was them pissing on you and telling you it’s raining) hasn’t gone away they just rebranded it.
In true Orwellian doublespeak it’s now called affordable water or something like that. And the co-governance debacle has stopped 50% of it being privatised into maori ownership.
Well for now anyway...who knows what the election will bring...

[pritch]

Three waters (actually called six waters because they added in rain and foreshore/seabed by stealth and number six was them pissing on you and telling you it’s raining) hasn’t gone away they just rebranded it.
In true Orwellian doublespeak it’s now called affordable water or something like that. And the co-governance debacle has stopped 50% of it being privatised into maori ownership.
Well for now anyway...who knows what the election will bring...




The original "Three waters" was copying what happened in Scotland and which is widely considered to be a success. So we had inbred yokels protesting with uniform professionally produced signage, almost as if they were being manipulated by someone else behind the scenes. It was probably the "co-governence" that fired up the racist rednecks.

Meanwhile we have councils happy to sell their water to China for a song, comfortably cruising to their next disease outbreak, or hoping that something won't break that they can't afford to fix.

[pete376403]

I didn't follow that one. Can only guess the LGFA is gonna be a bit busier than usual.
consider the example of Mangawhai, where the council took on (illegal) loans to pay for a massive water infrastructure upgrade in order to cope with the summertime influx of holiday makers, while the few permanent residents were stuck with huge rates increases. Now imagine the costs of upgrading a major city and the rates increases that would have to be applied - sure defeat looms for the council that tries this, so they look at the next option - sell off the water. Incidentally Three Waters contained provision for preventing this. The councils (mainly Auck and ChCh) protested mightily against TW, maybe because it would have prevented the sell off?

[TheDemonLord]

The original "Three waters" was copying what happened in Scotland and which is widely considered to be a success. So we had inbred yokels protesting with uniform professionally produced signage, almost as if they were being manipulated by someone else behind the scenes. It was probably the "co-governence" that fired up the racist rednecks.

Meanwhile we have councils happy to sell their water to China for a song, comfortably cruising to their next disease outbreak, or hoping that something won't break that they can't afford to fix.

Ah yes, the SNP - the very pinnacle of fiscal success...

Except they've ruined Scotland are heavily subsidized by the English and many of their 'successful' policies have shown in the long-run to be crap.

[R650R]

The original "Three waters" was copying what happened in Scotland and which is widely considered to be a success. So we had inbred yokels protesting with uniform professionally produced signage, almost as if they were being manipulated by someone else behind the scenes. It was probably the "co-governence" that fired up the racist rednecks.

Meanwhile we have councils happy to sell their water to China for a song, comfortably cruising to their next disease outbreak, or hoping that something won't break that they can't afford to fix.

Uniform signage.... sounds lot like George Soto’s sponsored colour revolutions.

The scots are pretty bright people, they are also uniform racially to large extent with some tribal/cultural stuff from the old days. They also fully assimilated into their new culture/country as they saw the long term greater good.
Here we have 20% of population thinking they own the water already anyway. The end result would be 80% would pay a disproportionate fee for water and the infrastructure would still get run down and not invested in. (A large local fish supplier has gone bust here locally providing too many free meals to whanau around region during covid)
I’d rather the Chinese own it actually. They are business people and know they have to provide a product to get money.
Shipping prices are set to tumble as the global backlog of boxes that was trapped in que at Los Angeles and China during covid becomes available. It might be cheaper to get a 20ft box of bulk water swinglifted onto front lawn than buy it off whatever enitity....

[george formby]

The scots are pretty bright people, they are also uniform racially to large extent with some tribal/cultural stuff from the old days. They also fully assimilated into their new culture/country as they saw the long term greater good.


I’d rather the Chinese own it actually. They are business people and know they have to provide a product to get money.


Have you spent much time in Scotland? It's a cultural melting pot and anti English sentiment is very strong. Mashmans post below gave me pause for thought, too. 62% of Scots voted to remain in the EU.

The track record for Chinese owned businesses in countries outside of China is not very good.

[mashman]

consider the example of Mangawhai, where the council took on (illegal) loans to pay for a massive water infrastructure upgrade in order to cope with the summertime influx of holiday makers, while the few permanent residents were stuck with huge rates increases. Now imagine the costs of upgrading a major city and the rates increases that would have to be applied - sure defeat looms for the council that tries this, so they look at the next option - sell off the water. Incidentally Three Waters contained provision for preventing this. The councils (mainly Auck and ChCh) protested mightily against TW, maybe because it would have prevented the sell off?

City revitalisation and UN pots of gold likely have a say in it too. And at the risk of broken recording things, that's Capitalism. Damned if ya do and Dammed, heh, if ya don't. The materials and resources exist, but the money has to be found in order to make something really rather important happen as quickly as possible. As such, does it matter where the money comes from (it has to be borrowed) as it'll likely end up paid back through rates either way?... or is the long term risk a little too much to take the financial hit through the Council?

[pritch]

Having spent a couple of weeks with no water in this suburb a few years ago, as a result of a tree falling on an unprotected pipe I'm mildly interested. Living on a river bank does have advantages although I didn't have to resort to that. The neighbours, several of whom had little kids, were filling buckets for flushing toilets etc. Had the situation lingered further I'd have been filling buckets too.

[pritch]

Brent Terhune is a comedian, normally I don't post his work here but this is sorta bike related. In case anyone missed it, Mike Pence is expected to announce his run for US President imminently. He is about as Milo Milquetoast as it's possible to be. He must have realised his image need to be toughened up so he's posted photos of himself on a Harley complete with patch covered vest. He caught Brent's attention.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWBDNcE5r1A

[R650R]

Brent Terhune is a comedian, normally I don't post his work here but this is sorta bike related. In case anyone missed it, Mike Pence is expected to announce his run for US President imminently. He is about as Milo Milquetoast as it's possible to be. He must have realised his image need to be toughened up so he's posted photos of himself on a Harley complete with patch covered vest. He caught Brent's attention.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWBDNcE5r1A

That’s a couple minutes of my life I’m not getting back. No different to any of the social MC’s here or Ulysses club etc He’s wearing a flip face helmet, hardly trying to look tough. He rides, that’s all that matters…
I did lol at what looks like a sheriffs badge though

[mashman]

Fast fashion has spawned a mountain of leftover clothes in the Chilean desert that's so massive it can now be seen clearly from space (https://www.businessinsider.com/fast-fashions-mountain-leftover-clothes-chile-desert-seen-from-space-2023-5)

Capitalism. Producing shit even though no one wants it.

[onearmedbandit]

Not diminishing the problem, but with 50cm resolution you can see a lot from a satellite.

[mashman]

Not diminishing the problem, but with 50cm resolution you can see a lot from a satellite.

I had to look that up... lol.

[mashman]

Warning of unprecedented heatwaves as El Nino set to return in 2023. (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/16/return-of-el-nino-will-cause-off-the-chart-temperature-rise-climate-crisis)

Tis odd watching scientists freak out while everyone goes about their business until groups on known manipulators decide otherwise. Saw images from Spain recently. Flooding done, then 46c heat and winds destroying orchards. Could be a bumpy ride.

[pritch]

, hardly trying to look tough. He rides, that’s all that matters…


He's trying but failing. He rides? Posing for a photo op isn't considered riding. Gotta go, I'm off to the Ulysses Club.

[onearmedbandit]

He's trying but failing. He rides? Posing for a photo op isn't considered riding. Gotta go, I'm off to the Ulysses Club.

According to this he rode a Harley when he was young and attends a motorcycle safety awareness ride every year since he became governor. I'd say he rides more than some members of this forum. Still don't like the guy, he's a politician after all.

https://youtu.be/Vxan6bHNXYc

[pritch]

Random things I didn't expect to see. There's a lot of radioactive waste, why don't we get rid of it by using it in road repairs?
"Florida man" indeed.


https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-controversial-plan-pave-roads-092228443.html

[R650R]

Random things I didn't expect to see. There's a lot of radioactive waste, why don't we get rid of it by using it in road repairs?
"Florida man" indeed.


https://news.yahoo.com/floridas-controversial-plan-pave-roads-092228443.html

That is quite interesting. I’d suspect it wouldn’t end up being any worse than normal background radiation that exists naturally in the dirt worldwide.
Ashphalt/Bitumen blends for roading are quite a sensitive science, I doubt they would put too much into existing proven blends and risk product failure.

Never mind the existing hazards anyway from tyre rubber dust (known carcinogen) and exposure to toluene and benzine from petrol fumes if you’re near busy roads.

[pritch]

We have been importing US insanity for a long time, witness the protest at Parliament, although some in NZ won't admit it.

Brian Tamaki has reportedly called for a boycott of The Warehouse because they are selling puberty blockers to trans kids. The Warehouse has replied that they do not sell any pharmaceutical products to anybody. Come to think of it I've never seen a chemist dept in a red shed.

Chantel Baker, some kind of homegrown fuckwit, has picked up a silly story from the US and run with it. She says schools in NZ are providing litter trays in school toilets for kids who identify as cats to take a dump in.

Gawd help us!

[pritch]

That is quite interesting. I’d suspect it wouldn’t end up being any worse than normal background radiation that exists naturally in the dirt worldwide.
Ashphalt/Bitumen blends for roading are quite a sensitive science, I doubt they would put too much into existing proven blends and risk product failure.

Never mind the existing hazards anyway from tyre rubber dust (known carcinogen) and exposure to toluene and benzine from petrol fumes if you’re near busy roads.

Your suspicion probably wouldn't bring them much comfort. One of their main concerns is that rain will cause run off that will end up in the aquifer.

[pritch]

I guess this ad should carry some sort of warning, it hits hard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5ykNZl9mTQ

[R650R]

The Green dream is unravelling in the fourth largest economy in the world. The Vice Chancellor is bluntly saying that Germany industry may have to shut down in 18 months if the current gas flow deal from Russia through Ukraine isn’t extended and he doesn’t seem to believe it could be. Meanwhile 13,000 people protested in Bavaria against the “heating ideology” — whereby evil gas is theoretically going to be forcibly replaced with wildly expensive heat pumps powered by erratic green electrons. The people just don’t want them: last year Germans installed 600,000 gas systems and only 236,000 heat pumps. Politicians are starting to back away slowly from the plan to make all new heaters “65% renewable” by next year. It’s starting to look like the backdown on banning fossil fuel powered cars.

The German economy is possibly in a recession already and Greens are finally getting the blame. It’s so bad that journalists worry that the “Far Right Surge” could endanger some businesses. The right wing Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) party is now polling second across Germany. The AfD is particularly popular in East Germany, (where voters are experts on the failings of socialist experiments).

Today the Greens are being mocked for failing to install a heat pump in their own headquarters after a three and half year quest. The cost is set to reach €5 million because they opted for the geothermal plan and have to drill down “almost 100ft” (that far eh?). The project has been beset with delays.

These are strong words:
Germany warns of industry shutdown if energy crisis deepens
Bloomberg

Germany may be forced to wind down or even switch off industrial capacity if Ukraine’s gas transit agreement with Russia isn’t extended after it expires at the end of next year, according to Economy Minister Robert Habeck.

Habeck, who is also the vice chancellor, issued the stark warning Monday at an economic conference in eastern Germany, saying that policymakers should avoid “making the same mistake again” of assuming that the economy will be unaffected without precautions to secure energy supplies.

His message is aimed at Green and environmental groups

“There is no secure scenario for how things will turn out,” Habeck said at the forum in Bad Saarow. Additional capacity — including a planned LNG terminal on Germany’s north coast that has provoked opposition from locals and environmental groups — will therefore be essential to maintain supply to both Eastern Germany and Eastern Europe, he said.

Companies are already fleeing to the US:

Companies are moving to the US as they face administrative burdens and high energy costs in Europe, Stefano Mallia, the head of the Employers Group of the European Economic and Social Committee, told EURACTIV.cz in an interview.

The relocation of companies mainly concerns those sectors dependent on high energy use, according to Mallia. “I can call it a real and present danger,” he said, adding that the EU has to put the competitiveness agenda to the forefront of its policymaking.

https://joannenova.com.au/2023/06/vc-habeck-says-german-industry-may-shut-down-hopes-russia-and-ukraine-will-play-nice-on-gas/

[husaberg]

The Green dream is unravelling in the fourth largest economy in the world. The Vice Chancellor is bluntly saying that Germany industry may have to shut down in 18 months if the current gas flow deal from Russia through Ukraine isn’t extended and he

#note Your previous predictions on Ukraine have all proven to be pretty crap....

[mashman]

Beyoncé blamed for inflation surprise in Sweden (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65908054)... :killingme... wonder where she'll raise inflation next pft.

[mashman]

US capital sputters as federal workers stay home (https://news.yahoo.com/us-capital-sputters-federal-workers-014754534.html)

If only someone knew how to address this dichotomy without needing to resort to a redistribution of wealth or BAU... except me that is :niceone:

[pritch]

The British Parliamentary inquiry has determined that Boris Johnson lied to Parliament.

Jonathan Pie reacts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5znEigYYCw

[pritch]

On the news tonight some Brit Tory twat (and Boris of course) say the committee that found Boris had misled Parliament was biased.

An item I heard this morning said the committee had seven members. Four from Johnson's own Conservative party, two Labour, and one Scottish Nationalist, and they were unanimous. That doesn't sound very biased.

[R650R]

I see one of our MP’s thinks he’s Will Smith with his passive aggressive outburst and it’s implied threat of violence. That’s far worse than any non disclosure of shares but our media’s largely focused on the replies instead of the shameful comment itself.
Well the jokes on him actually as the reason will smith was so upset is because it’s not so secret that his wife allegedly sleeping around Hollywood circles….

[pritch]

The people in the submersible that is currently lost would seem to be in deep trouble. Literally. So too may be the people running the company that offers the dives. Social media though is full of instant experts with no clue. The one below is one such.

[R650R]

It will be a miracle if it ever surfaces again. In military circles a sub is only reported publicly “missing” once they are sure they have exhausted all means of contact/search.

Internet experts… par for the course for any disaster/war/missing airplane/child/celebrity etc….

Quite an ironic way to perish… a perilous wealthy tourist journey to visit a gravesite of formerly wealthy tourist ship sinking….

[pritch]

Quite an ironic way to perish… a perilous wealthy tourist journey to visit a gravesite of formerly wealthy tourist ship sinking….

Once on an accident investigation course I did for work, the Titanic was a case study. There were many factors contributing to the disaster. I'd question calling it a "wealthy tourist ship" though. There were many third class passengers. The class snobbery of the day suggested they would panic so they were all locked below and went down with the ship.



Update: So a "US navy expert" and company CEO has written in the press that this incident reveals gaps in the US Coast Guard's rescue capabilities. What bollocks. This was a Canadian vessel out in the Atlantic off the coast of Canada. The hint is in the name "US Coast Guard" and the fact that it's not called the International Deep Sea Rescue Service.

[R650R]

Once on an accident investigation course I did for work, the Titanic was a case study. There were many factors contributing to the disaster. I'd question calling it a "wealthy tourist ship" though. There were many third class passengers. The class snobbery of the day suggested they would panic so they were all locked below and went down with the ship.



Update: So a "US navy expert" and company CEO has written in the press that this incident reveals gaps in the US Coast Guard's rescue capabilities. What bollocks. This was a Canadian vessel out in the Atlantic off the coast of Canada. The hint is in the name "US Coast Guard" and the fact that it's not called the International Deep Sea Rescue Service.

Yes I’ll assume you’re likely correct there. On a side not although the titanic is regarded as one of the worst maritime disasters officially it’s the MV Wilhelm Gustloff was a German military transport ship which was sunk on 30 January 1945 by Soviet submarine S-13 in the Baltic Sea while evacuating civilians and military personnel from East Prussia and the German-occupied Baltic states, and German military personnel from Gotenhafen (Gdynia) as the Red Army advanced. By one estimate,[3][4] 9,400 people died, making it the largest loss of life in a single ship sinking in history.

It’s rarely talked about due to all the nazis and Germans aboard at time…,

There’s outcry about the usual bad taste jokes coming out but what’s worst is a lot of feminists and socialists going on about the money spent trying to save five rich men. What has humanity come to….

Tragic ending but a good lesson about reinventing the wheel and ignoring established experience in a field in favour of innovation and young blood in design team. There’s a damn good engineering reason why all the existing gear is made out of titanium spheres and not two half spheres attached to a cylinder. ( Yes I know military subs have that shape but they don’t go to these extreme depths).

[husaberg]

Internet experts… par for the course for any disaster/war/missing airplane/child/celebrity etc….

It will be a miracle if it ever surfaces again. In military circles a sub is only reported publicly “missing” once they are sure they have exhausted all means of contact/search.

Quite an ironic way to perish… a perilous wealthy tourist journey to visit a gravesite of formerly wealthy tourist ship sinking….





Tragic ending but a good lesson about reinventing the wheel and ignoring established experience in a field in favour of innovation and young blood in design team. There’s a damn good engineering reason why all the existing gear is made out of titanium spheres and not two half spheres attached to a cylinder. ( Yes I know military subs have that shape but they don’t go to these extreme depths).

Nice posts, just the correct amount of obvious hypocrisy that you of course were totally oblivious to. :laugh::facepalm:;)

[Pursang]

...
CAPITALISM Gods way of determining who is 'smart' and can afford $250K to be imploded to mush, at the front of the Titanic!