Stupid World

[husaberg]

Love to see him try to build a wall ..
"His lets make America great again ties" are made in China......

[Scuba_Steve]

"His lets make America great again ties" are made in China......

They have a ready built wall too

[Brian d marge]

Fools they are playing u like animals in a circus

Start asking some serious questions

Like what happened to all that nazi gold money

And who is using it today ..and how are they using it

sent for a divine source

[husaberg]

They have a ready built wall too

yeah that's what made me think of it, I'm not so sure about there latest great wall though.
Looks like it won't last that long at all.
http://images.smh.com.au/2010/08/18/1788428/Graet-Wall-Motors1_m_m.jpg

[Scuba_Steve]

yeah that's what made me think of it, I'm not so sure about there latest great wall though.
Looks like it won't last that long at all.
http://images.smh.com.au/2010/08/18/1788428/Graet-Wall-Motors1_m_m.jpg

Hey they just "priced to the market", no-one wants to spend on lasting quality anymore

[husaberg]

Hey they just "priced to the market", no-one wants to spend on lasting quality anymore

Sounds like Trumps campaign of lowest common denominator politics.
Funny enough though Trumps empire was built on selling "opulent and gaudy Quality"

[mashman]

BOE Cuts By 25 bps To Record Low 0.25%, Boosts QE By £60 BN Including Corporate Bonds; Gilt Yields Crash (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-08-04/bank-england-cuts-rate-25-bps-boosts-qe-%C2%A360-bn-%C2%A3435-billion-will-monetize-corporate-)... I wonder where that money will end up with the main game in town not worth the risk. Might need to look into a swap or two.

[jonbuoy]

That's the beauty of having control over your own currency. You can de value it to make exports look good and overseas spending look bad. If the UK had adopted the Euro it would have been a nightmare to leave.

[Akzle]

That's the beauty of having control over your own currency.

your right. everyone lives at the vatican and/or imf
:facepalm:

[mashman]

$17.2m to support Syrian refugees (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/32259825/17-2m-to-support-syrian-refugees/#page1)

[mashman]

The Israeli Company That Fenced in Gaza Eyes Trump's Mexico Wall (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-01/israel-s-magal-eyes-trump-wall-boasting-gaza-tested-smart-fence)... bwaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa

[Banditbandit]

"His lets make America great again ties" are made in China......

"You must spread ...."

:rofl:

[mashman]

Earth’s resources used up at quickest rate ever in 2016 (http://www.france24.com/en/20160807-earth-overshoot-day-resources-depleted-quickest-rate-ever-2016)... but but but, economics, business, fairness, too hard basket, football, work :yawn:

[Ocean1]

Earth’s resources used up at quickest rate ever in 2016 (http://www.france24.com/en/20160807-earth-overshoot-day-resources-depleted-quickest-rate-ever-2016)... but but but, economics, business, fairness, too hard basket, football, work :yawn:

And you want to use even more in a RBE!

Cnut.

[mashman]

And you want to use even more in a RBE!

Cnut.

Nah... dat ain't how it works bru.

[Ocean1]

Nah... dat ain't how it works bru.

Sure it is. Take away the requirement to pay for stuff and the poor people will get all the good shit.

Fuck that.

[husaberg]

Sure it is. Take away the requirement to pay for stuff and the poor people will get all the good shit.

Fuck that.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_aay0r-mvhQ4/S-nmR8YxnUI/AAAAAAAABFU/yITnIxMuOYs/s1600/07+1980+Lada.jpg
8 year waiting list, headlights optional

http://rentatrabantbudapest.com/images/trabant-4.png
13 year waiting list

[oldrider]

Sure it is. Take away the requirement to pay for stuff and the poor people will get all the good shit.

Fuck that.

What other purpose does production have but to be consumed - political persuasion, social standing, religion etc etc of the consumer should not relative! :no:

[Ocean1]

13 year waiting list

:laugh: Trabant innit?

The main reason people queued up to immigrate to communist Germany. :laugh:

I think the last of them had actual windscreen wipers! You cranked the wee handle over the windscreen. :laugh:

Or maybe that was a Russian beastie... http://www.economist.com/node/11703067

[Ocean1]

What other purpose does production have but to be consumed

Just one: gainful employment.


- political persuasion, social standing, religion etc etc of the consumer should not relative! :no:

You mean they shouldn't preclude consumption?

Obviously, as long as the consumer can pay the producer for the product.

[oldrider]

Just one: gainful employment.



You mean they shouldn't preclude consumption?

Obviously, as long as the consumer can pay the producer for the product.

Sorry I thought you said - Take away the requirement to pay for stuff and the poor people will get all the good shit. = level playing field! :scratch:

[husaberg]

:laugh: Trabant innit?

The main reason people queued up to immigrate to communist Germany. :laugh:

I think the last of them had actual windscreen wipers! You cranked the wee handle over the windscreen. :laugh:

Or maybe that was a Russian beastie... http://www.economist.com/node/11703067

Of course in this perfect system with these systems, even though everyone's equal, some are just more equal than others comrade.
But everyone's equal.
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02383/zil-limo_2383503b.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cf/a6/36/cfa63650e672bb1f547f07d809adf3cb.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZiL

[mashman]

Sure it is. Take away the requirement to pay for stuff and the poor people will get all the good shit.

Fuck that.

Will they? You mean the guy who imports TV's won't have a say in who gets what? I'm sure all of his rich mates will get the goods before the poor. You do likes your fear porn though eh.

[Ocean1]

Sorry I thought you said - Take away the requirement to pay for stuff and the poor people will get all the good shit. = level playing field! :scratch:

Well it would be a level field. When the poor people earned enough to pay the same as everyone else.

[Ocean1]

Of course in this perfect system with these systems, even though everyone's equal, some are just more equal than others comrade.
But everyone's equal.

Oh aye, not that they had a monopoly on hypocrisy, but the ideology is certainly based on saying one thing and doing another.

[Ocean1]

Will they? You mean the guy who imports TV's won't have a say in who gets what? I'm sure all of his rich mates will get the goods before the poor. You do likes your fear porn though eh.

What, he gets to dictate who buys his TVs now?

News to me, I thought the only barrier to buying stuff was earning enough to afford it.

[oldrider]

Well it would be a level field. When the poor people earned enough to pay the same as everyone else.

Wouldn't that be more about opportunity rather than consumption - consumption would then have become a bi-product of opportunity - wouldn't it? :scratch:(just thinking)

[Ocean1]

Wouldn't that be more about opportunity rather than consumption - consumption would then have become a bi-product of opportunity - wouldn't it? :scratch:(just thinking)

You need an opportunity to earn money?

I had no idea.

[mashman]

What, he gets to dictate who buys his TVs now?

News to me, I thought the only barrier to buying stuff was earning enough to afford it.

Why not. Free will and a free market n all that.

Buying stuff? Short memory much :killingme


Sure it is. Take away the requirement to pay for stuff and the poor people will get all the good shit.

[husaberg]

Oh aye, not that they had a monopoly on hypocrisy, but the ideology is certainly based on saying one thing and doing another.

Idealists miss the reality of situations....it sounds good on paper, but that's the same thing money is printed on:msn-wink:

[Ocean1]

Why not. Free will and a free market n all that.

Buying stuff? Short memory much :killingme

Because the reason he's selling them is to make money? And the buyer's money is as good as anyone else's, regardless of preferred religion, age, political persuasion etc etc. Tends to be the prevailing feature of a free market, the only place you get sellers deciding who can buy what based on anything else is dead and dying communist states.

What? you're the one advocating an artificial method of deciding who gets what, that quote was me pointing out what a fucking stupid idea that was.

[Ocean1]

Idealists miss the reality of situations....it sounds good on paper, but that's the same thing money is printed on:msn-wink:

It usually sounds fucking pathetic on paper too.

Like fuckwits bleating about "rich pricks" focusing on money to the exclusion of social responsibility.... and then demanding money to fix their problem. :laugh:

[mashman]

Because the reason he's selling them is to make money? And the buyer's money is as good as anyone else's, regardless of preferred religion, age, political persuasion etc etc. Tends to be the prevailing feature of a free market, the only place you get sellers deciding who can buy what based on anything else is dead and dying communist states.

What? you're the one advocating an artificial method of deciding who gets what, that quote was me pointing out what a fucking stupid idea that was.

I see... aaaaaaaaaand back to talking about how a money world works... despite the fact that you said the poor getting everything and I showed you otherwise :yawn:. Actually the current "free" market limits who is allowed access to what resources. That you can't reconcile that tickles me immensely.

Aye, shifting the goalposts to more familiar ground coz your original assertion was, as per usual, complete bullshit. Not unexpected.

[Ocean1]

I see... aaaaaaaaaand back to talking about how a money world works... despite the fact that you said the poor getting everything and I showed you otherwise :yawn:. Actually the current "free" market limits who is allowed access to what resources. That you can't reconcile that tickles me immensely.

Aye, shifting the goalposts to more familiar ground coz your original assertion was, as per usual, complete bullshit. Not unexpected.

You've obviously got the wrong idea about a "free" market. It doesn't mean shit is free. It means everyone is free to buy and sell their shit for whatever price they can agree on. So the only limit is how much you can earn. Not attractive to lazy fuckwits, I know. Live with it.

No goalposts moving here, that's your favorite tactic. And your bullshit detector is so choked on your own home-grown bullshit it don't work any more.

[mashman]

You've obviously got the wrong idea about a "free" market. It doesn't mean shit is free. It means everyone is free to buy and sell their shit for whatever price they can agree on. So the only limit is how much you can earn. Not attractive to lazy fuckwits, I know. Live with it.

No goalposts moving here, that's your favorite tactic. And your bullshit detector is so choked on your own home-grown bullshit it don't work any more.

:killingme... where did I say the "free" market functioned on the premise of free shit? :yawn:

bwaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... I couldn't find a suitable ironing pic for that level of extreme ironing. Primarily as an ironing board doesn't fit up the arse.

[Ocean1]

:killingme... where did I say the "free" market functioned on the premise of free shit? :yawn:

bwaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... I couldn't find a suitable ironing pic for that level of extreme ironing. Primarily as an ironing board doesn't fit up the arse.

You have never at any time said what premise your "money free" market functioned on. As it most closely resembles good ol' fashioned communism with heavy leavenings of cargo cult philosophies I think I'm fairly safe in assuming that the link between earning shit and getting shit is completely missing.

Who decides who gets what again?

[Voltaire]

You have never at any time said what premise your "money free" market functioned on. As it most closely resembles good ol' fashioned communism with heavy leavenings of cargo cult philosophies I think I'm fairly safe in assuming that the link between earning shit and getting shit is completely missing.

Who decides who gets what again?

No evidence to suggest Strawman does any of what he says, more like the Tooting Popular Front but without the hat.

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/smokingboot/1331079/3552/3552_900.jpg

[mashman]

You have never at any time said what premise your "money free" market functioned on. As it most closely resembles good ol' fashioned communism with heavy leavenings of cargo cult philosophies I think I'm fairly safe in assuming that the link between earning shit and getting shit is completely missing.

Who decides who gets what again?

Yet you claim I'm wrong :killingme... priceless. Moreover you go on to state what it most closely resembles bwaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa. Thanks man.

The producers. Those many many businesses out there. Tis their effort after all eh.

[Ocean1]

Yet you claim I'm wrong :killingme... priceless. Moreover you go on to state what it most closely resembles bwaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaa. Thanks man.

The producers. Those many many businesses out there. Tis their effort after all eh.

Insomuch as you've described how shit will be allocated it is most certainly a communist concept. And the fact that you demonstrate that you have no understanding of who produces what is definitely allied to a cargo cult mentality. But you go laugh some more, that'll make it less obvious.

And yeah, that's obvious to anyone not actually a complete fuckwit.

[mashman]

Insomuch as you've described how shit will be allocated it is most certainly a communist concept. And the fact that you demonstrate that you have no understanding of who produces what is definitely allied to a cargo cult mentality. But you go laugh some more, that'll make it less obvious.

And yeah, that's obvious to anyone not actually a complete fuckwit.

I thought the producer reserved the right to pass on his goods to whoever he liked? A communist concept you say? Quite an epic fail for someone touted as one of our brightest. See, there ya go again claiming that you know what I mean when you've stated, yet again, that you don't. Weeeeeeeeeee and around we go.

bwaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa... Yeah, I've seen your measuring stick.

[sidecar bob]

I thought the producer reserved the right to pass on his goods to whoever he liked?

Although a sensible producer would pass his goods on to the highest bidder. Unless he is a complete idiot of course.

[mashman]

Although a sensible producer would pass his goods on to the highest bidder. Unless he is a complete idiot of course.

Noooooooo... is that how it currently works.

[sidecar bob]

Noooooooo... is that how it currently works.

Yes, and how do you get a guy that has a serious investment in production plant, equipment, staff & building to accept any less?
Hardworking folk that expect nothing for nothing will never run with it.
And that describes most producers.

[bogan]

You have never at any time said what premise your "money free" market functioned on. As it most closely resembles good ol' fashioned communism with heavy leavenings of cargo cult philosophies I think I'm fairly safe in assuming that the link between earning shit and getting shit is completely missing.

Who decides who gets what again?

That's a little unfair, he hinted and offered half arsed explanations many times; unfortunatly they contradict with what he has said previously, and with reality.

Lets face it, he's got no fucking clue what an RBE is about or how it works. He's just another freeloader trying to con hard working folks out of what they deserve. An actual RBE is something worth aiming for, but it'd be nothing like what this mush brained fuckwit rambles on about.

[mashman]

Yes, and how do you get a guy that has a serious investment in production plant, equipment, staff & building to accept any less?
Hardworking folk that expect nothing for nothing will never run with it.
And that describes most producers.

See, there are a few answers to that... but this is KB :devil2: If producers are a minority, then they may well be up shit creek without a paddle where their employees are happy to run with it. On the plus side, I don't see what the producer will be losing. Communicating that last bit is the hard bit where they don't want to let go. Thing is, as a former capitalist of some 4 decades, I completely understand why some won't want to let go so easily. Meh. We'll see what happens.

[sidecar bob]

See, there are a few answers to that... but this is KB :devil2: If producers are a minority, then they may well be up shit creek without a paddle where their employees are happy to run with it. On the plus side, I don't see what the producer will be losing. Communicating that last bit is the hard bit where they don't want to let go. Thing is, as a former capitalist of some 4 decades, I completely understand why some won't want to let go so easily. Meh. We'll see what happens.

If I was a producer & all my staff turned against me, I'd shut the doors & fuck off to handoutville, leaving my staff up shit creek. Easy really.

[mashman]

That's a little unfair, he hinted and offered half arsed explanations many times; unfortunatly they contradict with what he has said previously, and with reality.

Lets face it, he's got no fucking clue what an RBE is about or how it works. He's just another freeloader trying to con hard working folks out of what they deserve. An actual RBE is something worth aiming for, but it'd be nothing like what this mush brained fuckwit rambles on about.

"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." – Leo Tolstoy... On the plus side, you're not slow-witted, nor a man I suspect.

[Ocean1]

I thought the producer reserved the right to pass on his goods to whoever he liked?

Yes, you seem keen to think that, I've no idea why.


A communist concept you say? Quite an epic fail for someone touted as one of our brightest. See, there ya go again claiming that you know what I mean when you've stated, yet again, that you don't.

Wrong again, I've already said I have no idea what you're on about. I've also said that you've at no stage ever demonstrated that you do either.


You have never at any time said what premise your "money free" market functioned on. As it most closely resembles good ol' fashioned communism with heavy leavenings of cargo cult philosophies I think I'm fairly safe in assuming that the link between earning shit and getting shit is completely missing.

Who decides who gets what again?

And as, yet again you've failed to explain how you plan to allocate shit the observation remains perfectly valid.

[bogan]

"The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of doubt, what is laid before him." – Leo Tolstoy... On the plus side, you're not slow-witted, nor a man I suspect.

Yet, when we've discussed it in any detail, you've been the one shown to be wrong, self-contradictory, and retreating to statements like "the people will choose/figure it out/etc". It's simply not a subject you understand, which is a prerequisite of what old Leo refers to. So now it's just straight to the ad hominems; I'm sure there's an applicable quote by a noted smart guy, but you're just not worth it.

[mashman]

If I was a producer & all my staff turned against me, I'd shut the doors & fuck off to handoutville, leaving my staff up shit creek. Easy really.

I'd wonder what I had done that was so wrong that my staff would turn against me. But hey. Oh, and where the employees are running with it, I fail to see how they'd be up shit creek in an RBE given that all they'll be missing is a boss. Just some thoughts like.

[mashman]

Yet, when we've discussed it in any detail, you've been the one shown to be wrong, self-contradictory, and retreating to statements like "the people will choose/figure it out/etc". It's simply not a subject you understand, which is a prerequisite of what old Leo refers to. So now it's just straight to the ad hominems; I'm sure there's an applicable quote by a noted smart guy, but you're just not worth it.

What ad hominem? Like the rest of your understandings from the "discussions" we've had, there weren't no ad hominem. :yawn: Thing is, the Tolstoy quote refers to me too... but it seems that only I know that.

[bogan]

I'd wonder what I had done that was so wrong that my staff would turn against me. But hey. Oh, and where the employees are running with it, I fail to see how they'd be up shit creek in an RBE given that all they'll be missing is a boss. Just some thoughts like.

They'd also be missing all the production equipment the boss had. Mind you, mob rule and murder will fix that...


What ad hominem? Like the rest of your understandings from the "discussions" we've had, there weren't no ad hominem. :yawn: Thing is, the Tolstoy quote refers to me too... but it seems that only I know that.

Get fucked, mashy.

[Katman]

Although a sensible producer would pass his goods on to the highest bidder. Unless he is a complete idiot of course.

Not everyone worships money.

[mashman]

Yes, you seem keen to think that, I've no idea why.

Wrong again, I've already said I have no idea what you're on about. I've also said that you've at no stage ever demonstrated that you do either.

And as, yet again you've failed to explain how you plan to allocate shit the observation remains perfectly valid.

Because he does. That he chooses to leave it to those who have money doesn't stop that from being true.

No idea eh... solid platform to draw your conclusions from :niceone:

We already know what we each need... in fact the economy collects data etc... that predicts the needs of the people. Hmmmmmm, now let me think... how are we going to allocate shit :zzzz:

[mashman]

They'd also be missing all the production equipment the boss had. Mind you, mob rule and murder will fix that...

Get fucked, mashy.

Awesome understanding bro.

I love you.

[Voltaire]

If I was a producer & all my staff turned against me, I'd shut the doors & fuck off to handoutville, leaving my staff up shit creek. Easy really.

Mushi will never know, probably has only ever worked for the Govt

Bwahaaaa...bwahhhaaaa.

[bogan]

Mushi will never know, probably has only ever worked for the Govt

Bwahaaaa...bwahhhaaaa.

I've often wondered if the likes of him and yokely were govt plants sent to alienate conspiracy theorists and money free'ers from mainstream society. Because that is exactly what their moronic drivel achieves...

[Ocean1]

Because he does. That he chooses to leave it to those who have money doesn't stop that from being true.

No idea eh... solid platform to draw your conclusions from :niceone:

We already know what we each need... in fact the economy collects data etc... that predicts the needs of the people. Hmmmmmm, now let me think... how are we going to allocate shit :zzzz:

So he fails to give it to those that can't afford it?

The cunt.

Never mind, when the revolution comes we'll all have everything we want, 'cause there'll be no money to worry about. :third:

And now that you've actually recognised the question why not just answer the fucking thing?

[Woodman]

I'd wonder what I had done that was so wrong that my staff would turn against me. But hey. Oh, and where the employees are running with it, I fail to see how they'd be up shit creek in an RBE given that all they'll be missing is a boss. Just some thoughts like.

All they would be missing is a boss. FFS those "workers" in your rbe bollocks are going to need managing more than workers do now.

[mashman]

So he fails to give it to those that can't afford it?

The cunt.

Never mind, when the revolution comes we'll all have everything we want, 'cause there'll be no money to worry about. :third:

And now that you've actually recognised the question why not just answer the fucking thing?

No. Those who can't afford it aren't in the running... irrespective of need.

He could be, but hey, he's the producer innit.

Here's hoping that the producers don't throw their toys out of the pram, or that won't be the case will it?

I've always known the question and you've had more than your fair share of answers... but as you've said, you didn't understand them.

[mashman]

All they would be missing is a boss. FFS those "workers" in your rbe bollocks are going to need managing more than workers do now.

If you say so... and kinda ironic given that they'd be exactly the same "workers".

[Woodman]

If you say so... and kinda ironic given that they'd be exactly the same "workers".

Yeah right, take the management away from most work places and they will go pearshaped in record time.

[sidecar bob]

Not everyone worships money.

Says the guy with a row of katana's.
Not every adult has a mother to buy them shit.

[Ocean1]

No. Those who can't afford it aren't in the running... irrespective of need.

He could be, but hey, he's the producer innit.

Here's hoping that the producers don't throw their toys out of the pram, or that won't be the case will it?

I've always known the question and you've had more than your fair share of answers... but as you've said, you didn't understand them.

No, what I said was that YOU don't understand them.

And that'd be because they're gibberish.

Try again, who would be responsible for deciding who gets what in your wonderful economy?

[mashman]

Yeah right, take the management away from most work places and they will go pearshaped in record time.

Ok.


No, what I said was that YOU don't understand them.

And that'd be because they're gibberish.

Try again, who would be responsible for deciding who gets what in your wonderful economy?

Weeeeeeeeee round and round.

Nope.

One of the answers was in a very recent post. That you missed it, well, chur bro.

[Katman]

Says the guy with a row of katana's.
Not every adult has a mother to buy them shit.

What's having a collection of Katanas got to do with worshiping money?

(And I don't know quite why you'd think my mother bought any of them for me).

[husaberg]

What's having a collection of Katanas got to do with worshiping money?

(And I don't know quite why you'd think my mother bought any of them for me).
Hes plainly suggesting you are more materialistic than idealistic
As for YO MOMA Well, He neither said or inferred that your mother did, you clearly need to brush up on your comprehension.
In the case of Katana's those who live by the sword should die by the sword. In your case though, it would be pork.

[Katman]

Hes plainly suggesting you are more materialistic than idealistic
As for YO MOMA Well, He neither said or inferred that your mother did, you clearly need to brush up on your comprehension.
In the case of Katana's those who live by the sword should die by the sword. In your case though it would be pork.

How about you shut the fuck up and let Steve answer for himself.

There's a good boy.

[husaberg]

How about you shut the fuck up and let Steve answer for himself.

There's a good boy.

Aren't you precious this evening. Last time I looked, you don't get to control what I post, or when.
Here on KB, Just like in real life, you are a powerless little narcissistic cretin.

Your post did make me laugh though, thanks for that.
Just because the irony of you, expecting an answer to your question, when in the whole history of KB, you have been extremely reticent in ever answering any questions at all.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yeah right, take the management away from most work places and they will go pearshaped in record time.

Sure :blink:... However take the workers away from most work places and they'll cease to exist.
workers make money, management is cost money... I know which I'd drop from my company 1st, management is worthless*

[bogan]

Sure :blink:... However take the workers away from most work places and they'll cease to exist.
workers make money, management is cost money... I know which I'd drop from my company 1st, management is worthless*

:killingme: Got any more economic gems? Do you guys learn this drivel in Stupid Worlder 101 or something?

[Scuba_Steve]

:killingme: Got any more economic gems? Do you guys learn this drivel in Stupid Worlder 101 or something?

No for some reason you stupid worlders seem to think managers are more important than the workers that make the money & will cannibalize a company for a couple extra dollars in you pocket before it inevitably fails

[bogan]

No for some reason you stupid worlders seem to think managers are more important than the workers that make the money & will cannibalize a company for a couple extra dollars in you pocket before it inevitably fails

We've been over this, the stupid worlders are those who chose to see the world as a stupid place; ie, you morons.

That's not what managers do, bar the 0.1% or whatever it works out to be. To say they do, is like saying all workers are idle layabouts who take drugs and pull sick days, steal products etc. To say that would mean I chose to see the stupidity in the world instead of the reality, but I'm not a stupid worlder, so I wouldn't make that claim.

[mashman]

Transmission pricing impasse deepens, Transpower proposes new answer (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/transmission-pricing-impasse-deepens-transpower-002500409.html). "The EMA submission suggests this is no more than a political argument". Achually it is an entirely financial issue.

[Voltaire]

No for some reason you stupid worlders seem to think managers are more important than the workers that make the money & will cannibalize a company for a couple extra dollars in you pocket before it inevitably fails

So management add no value and " the workers' do?.....interesting. :msn-wink:

Reminds me of the Triumph Co Operative of the late 70's, that ended well.

[husaberg]

It usually sounds fucking pathetic on paper too.

Like fuckwits bleating about "rich pricks" focusing on money to the exclusion of social responsibility.... and then demanding money to fix their problem. :laugh:

Almost sounds like a violent protest against war aye.

[oldrider]

Last time I looked, you don't get to control what I post, or when.

How dare he copy your behaviour - that is your supreme self appointed role on KB - call the moderators immediately! :rofl:

[Woodman]

Sure :blink:... However take the workers away from most work places and they'll cease to exist.
workers make money, management is cost money... I know which I'd drop from my company 1st, management is worthless*

Take the workers away and the managers will get new workers. And lol at costs........

[husaberg]

How dare he copy your behaviour - that is your supreme self appointed role on KB - call the moderators immediately! :rofl:

Point me to a post where I have ever said anything like that.

You just don't like being asked to explain your racist posts. Or being called out on being a racist.
If you want to post racist crap and go unchallenged. Just post it on Stormfront or the KKK forum.

[oldrider]

Point me to a post where I have ever said anything like that.

You just don't like being asked to explain your racist posts. Or being called out on being a racist.
If you want to post racist crap and go unchallenged. Just post it on Stormfront or the KKK forum.

I rest my case! :rolleyes:

[husaberg]

I rest my case! :rolleyes:

You clearly have no case..... Unless you count being a racist NUT.
Remember how you told us a while ago the only reason you post racist crap was to get attention.
Heres the problem, when you get the attention, this attention you so crave, you cry wolf, Guess what oldie, that makes you barking mad.
Which is great, as it makes you a prime candidate for your heros Aktion T4 plan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4

[Scuba_Steve]

So management add no value and " the workers' do?.....interesting. :msn-wink:

Reminds me of the Triumph Co Operative of the late 70's, that ended well.

They were all but dead by the time they did that co-op; had they kept it private company it still would have failed
But maybee we shouldn't mention that part ay :innocent:

[Scuba_Steve]

Take the workers away and the managers will get new workers. And lol at costs........

That's not taking them away then is it? It's replacing them.
You take away managers a company can survive, you take away workers a company will fall

[husaberg]

That's not taking them away then is it? It's replacing them.
You take away managers a company can survive, you take away workers a company will fall

I must remember that, next time I am invoicing a client, or organising the roster, paying suppliers, or programing the work, organising the servicing of plant, or sorting out the employees pay.
Sorting out the SH&E compliance and the numerous other tasks.
I have found most companies kind of need these things to survive in the real world.
Because by the sound of your reasoning, it turns out business is not a team effort at all.
I guess you think all employee's will just instinctively organise this all themselves, whilst doing all there other important income generating stuff, without a even a second thought. That would be nice.
They could all give themselves pay rises while they were at it. The other problem is, who is going to actually hire the staff and make sure they are doing their work.

[oldrider]

You clearly have no case..... Unless you count being a racist NUT.
Remember how you told us a while ago the only reason you post racist crap was to get attention.
Heres the problem, when you get the attention, this attention you so crave, you cry wolf, Guess what oldie, that makes you barking mad.
Which is great, as it makes you a prime candidate for your heros Aktion T4 plan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aktion_T4

The way you transpose everything others say you really should be a Jazz musician - you have missed your calling! :facepalm:

[Woodman]

You take away managers a company can survive, you take away workers a company will fall

Show me one of these managerless companies.

[Voltaire]

That's not taking them away then is it? It's replacing them.
You take away managers a company can survive, you take away workers a company will fall

Thats a vey flat cap view of it.

I'm originally from the shop floor and now run the NZ operation for my AU based company, I know that if I didn't turn up for a couple of

days things would run ok, but if the cleaners did not my phone would not stop ringing.

If you have to get out of bed in the morning your a worker, does not matter that you wear a suit or overalls.

I thought that Us and Them attitude was gone these days...clearly I'm mistaken.

If all my workers left tomorrow I'd be able to run the show as I know all their jobs as I have done them in the past.

I'm not adverse to mopping up or rolling my sleeves up to help.

[sidecar bob]

Take the workers away and the managers will get new workers. And lol at costs........

And anyone that thinks a company can run without a manager is as stupid as someone that thinks a plane can fly with just passengers.
There are those that have never been a manager that will strongly disagree though.

[Katman]

And anyone that thinks a company can run without a manager is as stupid as someone that thinks a plane can fly with just passengers.
There are those that have never been a manager that will strongly disagree though.

You didn't really think that through, did you?

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/26/travel/remote-controlled-passenger-airplane/

The times, they are a-changin'.

[Voltaire]

You didn't really think that through, did you?

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/26/travel/remote-controlled-passenger-airplane/

The times, they are a-changin'.

Lights of Factories are already around.

https://lineshapespace.com/lights-out-manufacturing/

Stupid Worlders will be able to stay at home and get money for doing nothing...

bwaahhaaahhhaa

[mashman]

Well-Armed Activists Openly Defy Texas Law to Feed the Homeless – Hundreds Clothed and Fed (http://www.activistpost.com/2015/12/well-armed-activists-openly-defy-texas-law-to-feed-the-homeless-hundreds-clothed-and-fed.html). Stupid World at its best.

[sidecar bob]

You didn't really think that through, did you?

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/26/travel/remote-controlled-passenger-airplane/

The times, they are a-changin'.

You should hire a couple of munters to fix the bikes & bugger off & leave them too it with no leadership or guidance. Get back to me on how that works out for you.

[Katman]

You should hire a couple of munters to fix the bikes & bugger off & leave them too it with no leadership or guidance. Get back to me on how that works out for you.

Why would I do that?

I prefer that it's me who is solely responsible for the standard of work that goes out in my name.

[carbonhed]

Meanwhile in Jeremy Corbyn's favourite socialist paradise, Venezuela, things are just getting betterer and betterer...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/08/venezuela-is-stuck-in-a-death-spiral-and-its-only-getting-worse/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw8&wpmm=1

[Voltaire]

Meanwhile in Jeremy Corbyn's favourite socialist paradise, Venezuela, things are just getting betterer and betterer...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/08/08/venezuela-is-stuck-in-a-death-spiral-and-its-only-getting-worse/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw8&wpmm=1

Mushypeez will be along shortly as the article describes his Socialist Paradise bwahaaaahaaaa:yawn:

[MrMarko]

Why would I do that?

I prefer that it's me who is solely responsible for the standard of work that goes out in my name.

I suspect you have completely missed the point he was making given you just completely proved his point while posing it as a question.

[Katman]

I suspect you have completely missed the point he was making given you just completely proved his point while posing it as a question.

Well your comprehension certainly hasn't improved over the years.

The only reason I can see that a business like mine would take on extra mechanics is to be able to get through more work - with the sole purpose of making more money.

And I'm not in this game for the money.

[MrMarko]

Well your comprehension certainly hasn't improved over the years.

The only reason I can see that a business like mine what take on extra mechanics is to be able to get through more work - with the sole purpose of making more money.

And I'm not in this game for the money.

Perhaps you should re-read sidecar bobs post...

Maybe then you'll grasp what he is getting at...

"let me know how that works out for you" ... would be what you'd need to focus on. I'll give you some time.

Many things have improved. Still alive to imagine that.

[Katman]

Perhaps you should re-read sidecar bobs post...

Maybe then you'll grasp what he is getting at...

"let me know how that works out for you" ... would be what you'd need to focus on. I'll give you some time.

Many things have improved. Still alive to imagine that.

And perhaps you should re-read my post where I said "not everyone worships money".

[MrMarko]

And perhaps you should re-read my post where I said "not everyone worships money".

I just.... can't even.

How you are not taking sidecarbob's post as its intended and jumping to the thinking you are on astounds me.

[Katman]

I just.... can't even.

How you are not taking sidecarbob's post as its intended and jumping to the thinking you are on astounds me.

See, now that post sounds rather boganesque - so for the time being I'll reserved judgement on whether we're witnessing the return of Skidmark or just some fuckwit being a fuckwit.

[MrMarko]

See, now that post sounds rather boganesque - so for the time being I'll reserved judgement on whether we're witnessing the return of Skidmark of just some fuckwit being a fuckwit.

Try a mirror for that answer.

[MrMarko]

I mean... really what more can be said, it seems you've simply as per usual jumped the gate and started mashing keys, and have now dug your toes in on your opinion. You are jumping straight to your work ethic and the importance you place on money... there is nothing wrong with wanting to live in that way it's your life. However, it is not in any way the response you should be giving to sidecarbob's munter post.

You'll note i am being civil and trying to merely offer some input here, and you're the one escalating it to calling me a fuckwit?

Continue...

[sidecar bob]

And perhaps you should re-read my post where I said "not everyone worships money".

Theres quite a difference between worshipping money & working hard & doing deals in order to live a comfortable life so as not be a burden on ones family or society. Sort of financial personal responsibility if you like.
But packaging it as you have probably suits your agenda & state of affairs to make you feel a little better.

[pritch]

You do realise who will pay for that .....


Absolutely. Trustpower just bought out the company that supplies my power so...

[Ocean1]

Lights out Factories are already around.

https://lineshapespace.com/lights-out-manufacturing/

Stupid Worlders will be able to stay at home and get money for doing nothing...

bwaahhaaahhhaa

But their pride wouldn't allow them to bludge off the rest of us. :no:

And it's not as if the number of jobs is dropping, the demand for automation techs is insatiable. All those 8:00 to 4:30 factory manual labourers can up-skill and become robot fettlers in no time. :yes:

[sidecar bob]

Well your comprehension certainly hasn't improved over the years.

The only reason I can see that a business like mine what take on extra mechanics is to be able to get through more work - with the sole purpose of making more money.

And I'm not in this game for the money.

No, clearly not, given the amount of time you spend arguing pointless causes on the net.

[MrMarko]

Theres quite a difference between worshipping money & working hard & doing deals in order to live a comfortable life so as not be a burden on ones family or society. Sort of financial personal responsibility if you like.
But packaging it as you have probably suits your agenda & state of affairs to make you feel a little better.

I love you.

[Katman]

No, clearly not, given the amount of time you spend arguing pointless causes on the net.

Your feelings appear to be hurt Steve.

You should probably run along and make some money - that should make them feel better.

[mashman]

Theres quite a difference between worshipping money & working hard & doing deals in order to live a comfortable life so as not be a burden on ones family or society. Sort of financial personal responsibility if you like.
But packaging it as you have probably suits your agenda & state of affairs to make you feel a little better.

Similarly that financial personal responsibility requires the creation of money and that creation of money manifests itself as shit wages for those who are working hard and doing their bit in order to live a comfortable life so as not be a burden on ones family or society. There are no ifs ands or buts about that. Not having a go at your honourable intentions, but you did mention responsibility.
But packaging it as you have probably suits your agenda & state of affairs to make you feel a little better.

[Ocean1]

Similarly that financial personal responsibility requires the creation of money and that creation of money manifests itself as shit wages for those who are working hard and doing their bit in order to live a comfortable life so as not be a burden on ones family or society. There are no ifs ands or buts about that. Not having a go at your honourable intentions, but you did mention responsibility.
But packaging it as you have probably suits your agenda & state of affairs to make you feel a little better.

Of course. What, with not being a dole bludger an' all.

What probably makes him feel better is all the extra hours he works in order to create the money to pay for the dole bludgers.

Right Bob?

[sidecar bob]

Your feelings appear to be hurt Steve.

You should probably run along and make some money - that should make them feel better.

Ok, done that, thanks, it actually only made me feel tired, but I managed to create enough taxable income since my last post to keep the unemployed on this thread going for another couple of hours.

[mashman]

Of course. What, with not being a dole bludger an' all.

What probably makes him feel better is all the extra hours he works in order to create the money to pay for the dole bludgers.

Right Bob?

You mean paying for the 55% of the population that you claimed are a net tax drain on society?

[MrMarko]

Ok, done that, thanks, it actually only made me feel tired, but I managed to create enough taxable income since my last post to keep the unemployed on this thread going for another couple of hours.

Thanks buddy. :love:

[Woodman]

Well your comprehension certainly hasn't improved over the years.

The only reason I can see that a business like mine would take on extra mechanics is to be able to get through more work - with the sole purpose of making more money.

And I'm not in this game for the money.

bollocks. everyone is in business to make money.

[MrMarko]

bollocks. everyone is in business to make money.

If that the case my motor needs a rebuild.

Free parts and labour katman? seeing as you arn't in it for the money. ;)

[Katman]

If that the case my motor needs a rebuild.

Free parts and labour katman? seeing as you arn't in it for the money. ;)

See, that's the beauty of my business model - I get to be choosy about who I do work for.

You can go fuck yourself.

[sidecar bob]

See, that's the beauty of my business model - I get to be choosy about who I do work for.
.

So do I, but mine makes a buck into the bargain, otherwise what's the point? I think yours does too, but it doesn't suit your argument to admit it.
I'm in a very similar line of work to you, & frankly, you would have to be doing something horribly wrong, like posting on the internet all day, not to be able to make a go of it.

[Katman]

So do I, but mine makes a buck into the bargain, otherwise what's the point? I think yours does too, but it doesn't suit your argument to admit it.

It makes enough to keep me comfortable.

I don't need any more than that.

[MrMarko]

See, that's the beauty of my business model - I get to be choosy about who I do work for.

You can go fuck yourself.

Sweet... i guess ill just rebuild it myself and park it next to my track car :laugh:

[Scuba_Steve]

Show me one of these managerless companies.
You may or mayn't recognize this company... tho it's quite large & considered "managerless"
http://www.pcinvasion.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/valve-310x174.jpg


Thats a vey flat cap view of it.

I'm originally from the shop floor and now run the NZ operation for my AU based company, I know that if I didn't turn up for a couple of

days things would run ok, but if the cleaners did not my phone would not stop ringing.

If you have to get out of bed in the morning your a worker, does not matter that you wear a suit or overalls.

I thought that Us and Them attitude was gone these days...clearly I'm mistaken.

If all my workers left tomorrow I'd be able to run the show as I know all their jobs as I have done them in the past.

I'm not adverse to mopping up or rolling my sleeves up to help.
Hey & I've got nothing against that but end of day the money does stop with the workers, no workers, no money.
I like progression managers, the big problem with todays place are career managers that jump from place to place with not a fucking clue about what they're managing but companies will continuously "cut costs" by dropping production staff over these worthless & overpaid managers

[Ocean1]

You mean paying for the 55% of the population that you claimed are a net tax drain on society?

Yes.

andtenmfc

[bogan]

You may or mayn't recognize this company... tho it's quite large & considered "managerless"


Gabe Whowell?

Oh, the cofounder and managing director of valve, worth 2.2billion, Gabe Newell.

Perhaps try again on that one buddy :laugh: Or do you think the floating desk/job options they gave employees actually constitutes a managerless company? cos that would just be too precious :killingme

[Brian d marge]

Yes.

andtenmfc
We been down this road oh wise one
Do have a look at the make up of the social welfare
I'm sure that the pensioners would object to being called lazy and feckless
In fact you should try a smattering of , looking shit up, before formulating one of your classics

Even I try to ,look shit up, ..sometimes ...

sent for a divine source

[Scuba_Steve]

Gabe Whowell?

Oh, the cofounder and managing director of valve, worth 2.2billion, Gabe Newell.

Perhaps try again on that one buddy :laugh: Or do you think the floating desk/job options they gave employees actually constitutes a managerless company? cos that would just be too precious :killingme

At Valve , a US software start-up, nobody tells staff what to do. There are no managers. Staff have no job descriptions and are encouraged to form their teams based on their interests, define their roles and decide what work they do.


Valve, a US video game development and digital distribution company whose unconventional management structure caused a stir when its employee handbook appeared online. Founded in 1996 by two former Microsoft developers, the organisation began and remains flat. Valve’s handbook is clear enough: “We don’t have any management,” it says. “And nobody reports to anybody else. We do have a president, but even he isn’t your manager.”

What was that you were saying???

Also from their handbook...
Manager—The kind of people we don’t have any of. So if you see one, tell somebody, because it’s probably the ghost of whoever was in this building before us. Whatever you do, don’t let him give you a presentation on paradigms in spectral proactivity.

[bogan]

At Valve , a US software start-up, nobody tells staff what to do. There are no managers. Staff have no job descriptions and are encouraged to form their teams based on their interests, define their roles and decide what work they do.


Valve, a US video game development and digital distribution company whose unconventional management structure caused a stir when its employee handbook appeared online. Founded in 1996 by two former Microsoft developers, the organisation began and remains flat. Valve’s handbook is clear enough: “We don’t have any management,” it says. “And nobody reports to anybody else. We do have a president, but even he isn’t your manager.”

What was that you were saying???

Also from their handbook...
Manager—The kind of people we don’t have any of. So if you see one, tell somebody, because it’s probably the ghost of whoever was in this building before us. Whatever you do, don’t let him give you a presentation on paradigms in spectral proactivity.

That's a nice piece of puff marketing from an undisclosed source, but an absence of day to day personell managers, does not make a company manager-less. You should first figure out what a manager is and does, who knows, you might even understand why they are just as necessary as the workers...

[Woodman]

At Valve , a US software start-up, nobody tells staff what to do. There are no managers. Staff have no job descriptions and are encouraged to form their teams based on their interests, define their roles and decide what work they do.


Valve, a US video game development and digital distribution company whose unconventional management structure caused a stir when its employee handbook appeared online. Founded in 1996 by two former Microsoft developers, the organisation began and remains flat. Valve’s handbook is clear enough: “We don’t have any management,” it says. “And nobody reports to anybody else. We do have a president, but even he isn’t your manager.”

What was that you were saying???

Also from their handbook...
Manager—The kind of people we don’t have any of. So if you see one, tell somebody, because it’s probably the ghost of whoever was in this building before us. Whatever you do, don’t let him give you a presentation on paradigms in spectral proactivity.

interesting but looks to me more like marketing blurb to attract a certain demographic. I could be wrong although doubtful.

[EJK]

At Valve , a US software start-up, nobody tells staff what to do. There are no managers. Staff have no job descriptions and are encouraged to form their teams based on their interests, define their roles and decide what work they do.


Valve, a US video game development and digital distribution company whose unconventional management structure caused a stir when its employee handbook appeared online. Founded in 1996 by two former Microsoft developers, the organisation began and remains flat. Valve’s handbook is clear enough: “We don’t have any management,” it says. “And nobody reports to anybody else. We do have a president, but even he isn’t your manager.”

What was that you were saying???

Also from their handbook...
Manager—The kind of people we don’t have any of. So if you see one, tell somebody, because it’s probably the ghost of whoever was in this building before us. Whatever you do, don’t let him give you a presentation on paradigms in spectral proactivity.

Oh good ol Facebook click-bait article... Sure maybe there is no "manager" title, instead something like an agile team where everyone is a leader in own right. But I highly doubt anything beyond that.

[Katman]

You should first figure out what a manger is and does

That's baby Jesus's bed, isn't it?

[Scuba_Steve]

That's a nice piece of puff marketing from an undisclosed source, but an absence of day to day personell managers, does not make a company manager-less. You should first figure out what a manger is and does, who knows, you might even understand why they are just as necessary as the workers...

Sounds like you're making excuses cause the facts don't support your views... That's not something I'd expect from you :whistle:

Also the source is Valve... The company in question, you know the big software giant, VALVE; I'm sure you've heard of them, VALVE. These guys...
http://lusipurr.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/valve_logo-300x86.jpg
http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/8f25c5fe1ed59941604e75bc138c4d2b-650-80.jpg

[Brian d marge]

That's baby Jesus's bed, isn't it?
I thought it was one of those toothless crons , from up north I used to shag back in the day

sent for a divine source

[bogan]

Sounds like you're making excuses cause the facts don't support your views... That's not something I'd expect from you :whistle:

Also the source is Valve... The company in question, you know the big software giant, VALVE; I'm sure you've heard of them, VALVE. These guys...

Sounds like you still don't understand management. Tell me, who hires these people? who decides their salary? Who decides the company direction? who it markets towards?

Oh, and that's not a source, that's the company name. A source would show where those actual words come from...

[mashman]

If you're lucky, you'll recognise them's who Can’t Handle the Truth: How Confirmation Bias Distorts Your Opinions (http://www.jakeshealthsolutions.com/you-cant-handle-the-truth-how-confirmation-bias-distorts-your-opinions-4143)... some of you may recognise the opening Tolstoy quote too :whistle:

[Scuba_Steve]

Sounds like you still don't understand management. Tell me, who hires these people? who decides their salary? Who decides the company direction? who it markets towards?

Oh, and that's not a source, that's the company name. A source would show where those actual words come from...

The valve employee handbook was the bolded part, it was right there in the post... Oversights like this might might explain alot about your views

And lets let Valve's economist-in-residence Yanis Varoufakis answer the questions

The hiring process

"The way it works is very simple. Let's say you and I have a chat in the corridor, or in some conference room, or wherever. The result of this chat is that we converge to the view that we need an additional software engineer, or animator, or artist, or hardware person. Or several of them. What we can do is, we can send an email to the rest of our colleagues at Valve and invite them to join us in forming a search committee that actually looks for these people without seeking anyone's permission in the hierarchy, simply because there is no hierarchy.

"And then we form spontaneously the search committee, and then we interview people, first by Skype, and then we bring them in, if they pass the test, to the company for a more face-to-face personalized interview. And anyone who wants to participate does participate.

"And then during that day -- it's usually a day-long event -- emails are fired all over the place with views whether this person should be hired or not until some consensus is reached where there's effectively no one is vetoing the hire of that particular person."

How pay is determined

"This is a haphazard process. The payment mechanism is to a very large extent bonus-based. So the contracts usually have a minimum pay segment in it, which is more or less established by tradition. And then the interesting part in this contract is how much is left to the peer review process, which is very complicated. It involves various layers of mutual assessment.

"In companies like Microsoft or elsewhere, usually the bonus is something between 8, 15, 20 percent of the basic salary. In Valve, I'm told, there's no upper limit to bonuses. Bonuses can end up being 5, 6, 10 times the level of the basic wage."

"Gabe [Newell] had this view from the beginning. He wanted a community of partners, he didn't want to be the boss of anyone or to be bossed around by anyone."

Firing people

"It does happen. I've seen it happen. And it's never pretty. It involves various communications at first when somebody's underperforming, or somebody doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the company.

"In many occasions people simply don't fit in not because they're not productive or good people, but because they just can't function very well in a boss-less environment. And then there are series of discussions between co-workers and the person whose firing is being canvased or discussed, and at some point if it seems there is no way that a consensus can emerge that this person can stay, some attractive offer is made to the particular person, and usually there's an amicable parting of ways."

[husaberg]

Sounds like you still don't understand management. Tell me, who hires these people? who decides their salary? Who decides the company direction? who it markets towards?

Oh, and that's not a source, that's the company name. A source would show where those actual words come from...

I had a look and it is actually seemingly legit.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303379204577474953586383604
The salaries are decided by peer assessment
The decisions as to what to do or market are formed by groups with ideas put forward by anyone.
The thing is the groups are lead by a....... wait for it.... defacto manager voted in by the group

[Katman]

....... wait for it....

Shut the fuck up.

You stupid cunt.

[bogan]

The valve employee handbook was the bolded part, it was right there in the post... Oversights like this might might explain alot about your views

And lets let Valve's economist-in-residence Yanis Varoufakis answer the questions

The hiring process

"The way it works is very simple. Let's say you and I have a chat in the corridor, or in some conference room, or wherever. The result of this chat is that we converge to the view that we need an additional software engineer, or animator, or artist, or hardware person. Or several of them. What we can do is, we can send an email to the rest of our colleagues at Valve and invite them to join us in forming a search committee that actually looks for these people without seeking anyone's permission in the hierarchy, simply because there is no hierarchy.

"And then we form spontaneously the search committee, and then we interview people, first by Skype, and then we bring them in, if they pass the test, to the company for a more face-to-face personalized interview. And anyone who wants to participate does participate.

"And then during that day -- it's usually a day-long event -- emails are fired all over the place with views whether this person should be hired or not until some consensus is reached where there's effectively no one is vetoing the hire of that particular person."

How pay is determined

"This is a haphazard process. The payment mechanism is to a very large extent bonus-based. So the contracts usually have a minimum pay segment in it, which is more or less established by tradition. And then the interesting part in this contract is how much is left to the peer review process, which is very complicated. It involves various layers of mutual assessment.

"In companies like Microsoft or elsewhere, usually the bonus is something between 8, 15, 20 percent of the basic salary. In Valve, I'm told, there's no upper limit to bonuses. Bonuses can end up being 5, 6, 10 times the level of the basic wage."

"Gabe [Newell] had this view from the beginning. He wanted a community of partners, he didn't want to be the boss of anyone or to be bossed around by anyone."

Firing people

"It does happen. I've seen it happen. And it's never pretty. It involves various communications at first when somebody's underperforming, or somebody doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the company.

"In many occasions people simply don't fit in not because they're not productive or good people, but because they just can't function very well in a boss-less environment. And then there are series of discussions between co-workers and the person whose firing is being canvased or discussed, and at some point if it seems there is no way that a consensus can emerge that this person can stay, some attractive offer is made to the particular person, and usually there's an amicable parting of ways."


I had a look and it is actually seemingly legit.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303379204577474953586383604
The salaries are decided by peer assessment
The decisions as to what to do or market are formed by groups with ideas put forward by anyone.
The thing is the groups are lead by a....... wait for it.... defacto manager voted in by the group

Ah, so they just distribute most of the management tasks across the employees. Kind like what project engineers have been doing for decades...

Seems a little inefficient, but I guess with the low resource cost of software development it is an acceptable tradeoff. The idea that a company in which everyone is a manger is managerless remains absurd, however.

[Katman]

The idea that a company in which everyone is a manger is managerless remains absurd, however.

Refer post #8386.

[Virago]

...The decisions as to what to do or market are formed by groups with ideas put forward by anyone.

Management by committee?

{Shudder}

[husaberg]

Ah, so they just distribute most of the management tasks across the employees. Kind like what project engineers have been doing for decades...

Seems a little inefficient, but I guess with the low resource cost of software development it is an acceptable tradeoff. The idea that a company in which everyone is a manger is managerless remains absurd, however.

yeah... I think it would work, with caveat of, only in fast moving tech companies, that have abundant idealistic techy gamer geeks, with a lot of competition for these places in the company , from other unemployed techy gamer geeks.
kind of like a hunger gamers approach.
I know of one real estate company that has (allegedly on purpose) far too many agents at each area, for that very reason. IE of keeping them hungry for commission, thus survival of the fittest rules.


Management by committee?

<<Shudder>>
insert Camel Horse analogy.

[Scuba_Steve]

Ah, so they just distribute most of the management tasks across the employees. Kind like what project engineers have been doing for decades...

Seems a little inefficient, but I guess with the low resource cost of software development it is an acceptable tradeoff. The idea that a company in which everyone is a manger is managerless remains absurd, however.

you really do lack the ability to conceive something outside the little box you've built for yourself (or let others build for you) don't you... It's interesting the way you try & rationalize it into something you can understand/grasp; I mean god forbid a company doesn't have managers, heresy!
There's alot out there that'd probably blow your mind but I'm not gonna be the one to remove you from your little box, after all it's such a nice little box isn't it, all nice & comfy & warm; Blissful isn't it
http://newzealandmafia.com/files/Forums/openeyes.jpg

[MrMarko]

you really do lack the ability to conceive something outside the little box you've built for yourself (or let others build for you) don't you... It's interesting the way you try & rationalize it into something you can understand/grasp; I mean god forbid a company doesn't have managers, heresy!
There's alot out there that'd probably blow your mind but I'm not gonna be the one to remove you from your little box, after all it's such a nice little box isn't it, all nice & comfy & warm; Blissful isn't it
http://newzealandmafia.com/files/Forums/openeyes.jpg

Why are companies employing people to age men? :confused:

[bogan]

you really do lack the ability to conceive something outside the little box you've built for yourself (or let others build for you) don't you... It's interesting the way you try & rationalize it into something you can understand/grasp; I mean god forbid a company doesn't have managers, heresy!
There's alot out there that'd probably blow your mind but I'm not gonna be the one to remove you from your little box, after all it's such a nice little box isn't it, all nice & comfy & warm; Blissful isn't it
http://newzealandmafia.com/files/Forums/openeyes.jpg

Funny how you put so much emphasis on the person, rather than the output. Whether the job of a manager is done by one person, and 9 people do the job of 9 workers, should not be any different to 10 people doing 10% of a managers job and 90% of a workers job each. Harder to put the blame on the "dirty money hungry manager" in the second, which I guess is why you rationalise it as you do...

A rather apt self portrait given your demonstrable lack of understanding of mangers, economics, and all round reality.

[bogan]

yeah... I think it would work, with caveat of, only in fast moving tech companies, that have abundant idealistic techy gamer geeks, with a lot of competition for these places in the company , from other unemployed techy gamer geeks.
kind of like a hunger gamers approach.
I know of one real estate company that has (allegedly on purpose) far too many agents at each area, for that very reason. IE of keeping them hungry for commission, thus survival of the fittest rules.

Yeh it's definetly an exercise in morale boosting, that much should be clear from the self justificiation of it. Which isn't to say it's a bad decision at all in that case; but you'd be fucked if you tried to apply it to companies in which the required management ability differs greatly from the worker's ability in that field.

[Scuba_Steve]

Funny how you put so much emphasis on the person, rather than the output. Whether the job of a manager is done by one person, and 9 people do the job of 9 workers, should not be any different to 10 people doing 10% of a managers job and 90% of a workers job each. Harder to put the blame on the "dirty money hungry manager" in the second, which I guess is why you rationalise it as you do...

A rather apt self portrait given your demonstrable lack of understanding of mangers, economics, and all round reality.

Well I said I wasn't gonna pull you from your cozy little box, but I might have to have you peak out of it a bit... Here learn yourself (don't worry I've done most the work for you) (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=manager+definition)

[bogan]

Well I said I wasn't gonna pull you from your cozy little box, but I might have to have you peak out of it a bit... Here learn yourself (don't worry I've done most the work for you) (http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=manager+definition)

Run along little puppet, your blustering and railing against 'the man' here is done...

[Scuba_Steve]

Run along little puppet, your blustering and railing against 'the man' here is done...

This really does upset your cozy little box view doesn't it... Don't worry I'm done for now, you can go back to bliss

[bogan]

This really does upset your cozy little box view doesn't it... Don't worry I'm done for now, you can go back to bliss

I never left, being a well grounded and productive project manager means I enjoy my work, and life. Why the fuck would I change that by unquestioningly swallowing the delusional negative diatribe around these parts? That would be fucking absurd. The secret to happiness is to change what you can, and accept what you can't; so the prerequisite is obviously to harbor no self delusions. I've shone a light on many of my own, so have others; but you're about a 100W short of a candle's flicker.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm simply posting in this thread to say this:

Valve has no Managers?

so THAT is why I don't have Half Life 3 yet....

[Brian d marge]

Management by committee?

{Shudder}

Austin Allegro , great car !

[sidecar bob]

I'm just laughing at prospect of a construction project where everyone just randomly turns up & starts digging & building willy nilly wherever & whenever they wanted. It would be like a kindergarten sand pit.
Plus, nobody pays them.

[Ocean1]

I'm just laughing at prospect of a construction project where everyone just randomly turns up & starts digging & building willy nilly wherever & whenever they wanted. It would be like a kindergarten sand pit.
Plus, nobody pays them.

To be fair, if the duties of the managers are shared between all of the employees then so would the pay usually allocated to the managers.

That's not the problem, the problem is that outside of that sandpit you don't find the skills and experience required to manage.

It's a bit like deciding that the work done by a software development engineer is going to be shared by the canteen staff, the accountant, etc.

The main reason businesses are orders of magnitude more productive than we once were is specialization, why the fuck would you want to go back to having everyone doing everything, badly?

[mashman]

Ah, so they just distribute most of the management tasks across the employees. Kind like what project engineers have been doing for decades...

Seems a little inefficient, but I guess with the low resource cost of software development it is an acceptable tradeoff. The idea that a company in which everyone is a manger is managerless remains absurd, however.

I'm surprised you don't recognise the practice given the RBE view of it and your claimed knowledge of RBE. Fortunately I'm here to point these things out for you so that you can become more knowledgeable on subjects you clearly know nothing about despite your claims. Some might say that taking such a position is delusional. I'd say you're welcome, but you clearly don't have the capacity for changing your position. There are some helpful tips in the confirmation bias document I posted on the previous page though. Good luck.

"I don't want people to follow some leader, I want them to be brought up educated to understand their decisions, how they're arrived at, and the basis for it. I don't want people to follow a leader, that's fascism to me." ~ Jacque Fresco, teamspeak seminar, August 14, 2011

[Woodman]

I'm just laughing at prospect of a construction project where everyone just randomly turns up & starts digging & building willy nilly wherever & whenever they wanted. It would be like a kindergarten sand pit.
Plus, nobody pays them.

and when the building falls down who would stand up and be accountable? nobody would and this is why this rbe bollocks wouldn't work. No consequences . no responsibility.

[mashman]

and when the building falls down who would stand up and be accountable? nobody would and this is why this rbe bollocks wouldn't work. No consequences . no responsibility.

bwaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa... here, let me help you with that:

How do you imagine the building processes of the projects – standard, using prefabricated units or some other technologies? (https://www.thevenusproject.com/faq/how-do-you-imagine-the-building-processes-of-the-projects-standard-using-prefabricated-units-or-some-other-technologies/)... aaaaaaaand further reading explains that by using the best materials available for construction, it'd take something special to drop one.

Whereas modern day does it all to budget constraint and results in leaky buildings etc... that no one can ever be prosecuted for because they all shift the blame on to someone else. Quality remark though, you did have me giggling@accountability.

[sidecar bob]

Why arent all the advocates of working willy nilly for no money doing just that. I hear a lot of wind but no action.

[mashman]

Why arent all the advocates of working willy nilly for no money doing just that. I hear a lot of wind but no action.

Coz, ironically in ways, budget constraint. Materials, land, labour, food, machinery etc... all see ya thrown in jail when ya just try to take them, irrespective of the hard work and effort that they've already put in. Not hard to understand... unless ya don't want to like :bleh:

[Ocean1]

Why arent all the advocates of working willy nilly for no money doing just that. I hear a lot of wind but no action.

Because they can't eat wind, they need other people to do the willy nilly thing.

The same others that are currently happy to be responsible for their own upkeep.

Classic communism.

[Woodman]

bwaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa... here, let me help you with that:

How do you imagine the building processes of the projects – standard, using prefabricated units or some other technologies? (https://www.thevenusproject.com/faq/how-do-you-imagine-the-building-processes-of-the-projects-standard-using-prefabricated-units-or-some-other-technologies/)... aaaaaaaand further reading explains that by using the best materials available for construction, it'd take something special to drop one.

Whereas modern day does it all to budget constraint and results in leaky buildings etc... that no one can ever be prosecuted for because they all shift the blame on to someone else. Quality remark though, you did have me giggling@accountability.

again bollocks. how could you ever get the project finished when ccritical people might just not show up. continuity would be a nightmare and would lead to shortcuts. who would run the project. what consequences for overruns and fuckups?

[Voltaire]

Coz, ironically in ways, budget constraint. Materials, land, labour, food, machinery etc... all see ya thrown in jail when ya just try to take them, irrespective of the hard work and effort that they've already put in. Not hard to understand... unless ya don't want to like :bleh:

Any examples other than some Amazonian tribe who has only just come in contact with the outside world?

Be surprised if they did not a hierarchy along the lines of Chief, food gathers, warriors and so on.

[Brian d marge]

again bollocks. how could you ever get the project finished when ccritical people might just not show up. continuity would be a nightmare and would lead to shortcuts. who would run the project. what consequences for overruns and fuckups?

Jehovahs witness , quick build seem to be on time and under budget

[sidecar bob]

Jehovahs witness , quick build seem to be on time and under budget

But they have the greatest leader of all.:clap:

[Brian d marge]

But they have the greatest leader of all.:clap:
They hope

sent for a divine source

[mashman]

again bollocks. how could you ever get the project finished when ccritical people might just not show up. continuity would be a nightmare and would lead to shortcuts. who would run the project. what consequences for overruns and fuckups?

If you're talking about how the above would happen under RBE, then I fail to see why a construction would be so critical that it didn't have the resources, let alone knowledge sharing, in order to finish the job under various circumstances. Overruns are financial problems and as such under RBE there'd be no penalties on account of there being no money. Fuckups could be dealt with in exactly the same way as we currently do... although bit of a shame to fuck someone over because they made a single mistake. Plus how do you punish a machine for a fuckup?

[mashman]

Any examples other than some Amazonian tribe who has only just come in contact with the outside world?

Be surprised if they did not a hierarchy along the lines of Chief, food gathers, warriors and so on.

Like a dog with a bone. Whether there is a hierarchy or not is irrelevant so long as everyone knows what they're doing.

[Woodman]

If you're talking about how the above would happen under RBE, then I fail to see why a construction would be so critical that it didn't have the resources, let alone knowledge sharing, in order to finish the job under various circumstances. Overruns are financial problems and as such under RBE there'd be no penalties on account of there being no money. Fuckups could be dealt with in exactly the same way as we currently do... although bit of a shame to fuck someone over because they made a single mistake. Plus how do you punish a machine for a fuckup?

wouldn't work.

[Voltaire]

Like a dog with a bone. Whether there is a hierarchy or not is irrelevant so long as everyone knows what they're doing.

So what happens when there are two dogs and one bone?

Dogs even get organised and hunt in packs, and their is always a leader.

Other than posting links to other dead dreamers any examples of your so called RBE......

BWahhhaaaaaawafflehaaaaaaaanddrivel.

[mashman]

wouldn't work.

Ok.


So what happens when there are two dogs and one bone?

Dogs even get organised and hunt in packs, and their is always a leader.

Other than posting links to other dead dreamers any examples of your so called RBE......

BWahhhaaaaaawafflehaaaaaaaanddrivel.

Tis up to the dogs innit. Fight over it. Share it. Or go find another bone.

We aren't dogs.

Fresco ain't dead.

You take out what ya bring in :yawn:

[Voltaire]

So no ones uses RBE then, thought as much.
I think my Grandfather did, ran a water wheel mill that was a couple of hundred years old....thankfully the industrial revolution came along.

According to that other plonker the UK could have sponged off Stephen,Brunell, Faraday, and that bloke who build the spinning Jenny.

[mashman]

So no ones uses RBE then, thought as much.
I think my Grandfather did, ran a water wheel mill that was a couple of hundred years old....thankfully the industrial revolution came along.

According to that other plonker the UK could have sponged off Stephen,Brunell, Faraday, and that bloke who build the spinning Jenny.

There's quite a few out there. Thinking ain't your strong point is it... and I'm all out of spoonfed understanding.

Yeah, much better to privatise the lot and string human beings along with the idea that silo'ing information is best. Why stand on the shoulders of giants when you can buy their ideas, so long as you have lots of money, and then can claim to be the giant :killingme.

[Voltaire]

There's quite a few out there. Thinking ain't your strong point is it... and I'm all out of spoonfed understanding.

Yeah, much better to privatise the lot and string human beings along with the idea that silo'ing information is best. Why stand on the shoulders of giants when you can buy their ideas, so long as you have lots of money, and then can claim to be the giant :killingme.

Yeah, no I'm a bit dim, otherwise I would not be here would I.

So Jack and Beanstalk are RBE? I get it.

Baaaaabaaablacksheeple.....:baby:

[mashman]

Yeah, no I'm a bit dim, otherwise I would not be here would I.

So Jack and Beanstalk are RBE? I get it.

Baaaaabaaablacksheeple.....:baby:

Dim and dimmer eh. I'll be dimmer :wari:

No, Jack WITH the Beanstalk.

[bogan]

I'm surprised you don't recognise the practice given the RBE view of it and your claimed knowledge of RBE. Fortunately I'm here to point these things out for you so that you can become more knowledgeable on subjects you clearly know nothing about despite your claims. Some might say that taking such a position is delusional. I'd say you're welcome, but you clearly don't have the capacity for changing your position. There are some helpful tips in the confirmation bias document I posted on the previous page though. Good luck.

"I don't want people to follow some leader, I want them to be brought up educated to understand their decisions, how they're arrived at, and the basis for it. I don't want people to follow a leader, that's fascism to me." ~ Jacque Fresco, teamspeak seminar, August 14, 2011

I don't recognise the practice because there are no functional RBEs yet. It's also an unrecognisable practice from a theoretical point of view because of it's oversimpification. Yes there will be a large degree of self-determiniation in an RBE, but there will absolutely still be managers. And they will most certainly still be directing others what to do.

Ie, if you think that quote means there will be no managers, you've really not got a clue about RBEs.

[mashman]

I don't recognise the practice because there are no functional RBEs yet. It's also an unrecognisable practice from a theoretical point of view because of it's oversimpification. Yes there will be a large degree of self-determiniation in an RBE, but there will absolutely still be managers. And they will most certainly still be directing others what to do.

Ie, if you think that quote means there will be no managers, you've really not got a clue about RBEs.

I was merely pointing out that the theory exists as an RBE concept. I know this having discussed leadership etc... with other RBE members/advocates... but hey, you know best... you fascists usually do. But we'd be talking pure RBE at that point, and as highlighted and understood by those RBE members/advocates, it's a concept that some will simply never grasp. That Valve are using such an approach shows that it isn't just a money related concept either, something I never stated anyway, and in fact isn't just a concept anymore. So, I was surprised that you denied the existence of the theory given your claimed RBE knowledge. Also, and according to Mr Fresco the definer of RBE as you claim to understand it, you're a fascist.
That not a revelation mind.

i.e. Stop pretending to know what I think, coz you're invariably wrong.

[bogan]

I was merely pointing out that the theory exists as an RBE concept. I know this having discussed leadership etc... with other RBE members/advocates... but hey, you know best... you fascists usually do. But we'd be talking pure RBE at that point, and as highlighted and understood by those RBE members/advocates, it's a concept that some will simply never grasp. That Valve are using such an approach shows that it isn't just a money related concept either, something I never stated anyway, and in fact isn't just a concept anymore. So, I was surprised that you denied the existence of the theory given your claimed RBE knowledge. Also, and according to Mr Fresco the definer of RBE as you claim to understand it, you're a fascist.
That not a revelation mind.

i.e. Stop pretending to know what I think, coz you're invariably wrong.

But not in detail, there will always be managers.

I disagree, Fresco has never defined me as a fascist, you simply wish to see me as one so you can have an excuse to ignore my logic; instead of opening your eyes to take on board information that goes against your prejudices. The source of information and ideas doesn't matter, it is the content that counts.

[MrMarko]

:corn:

..................

[mashman]

But not in detail, there will always be managers.

I disagree, Fresco has never defined me as a fascist, you simply wish to see me as one so you can have an excuse to ignore my logic; instead of opening your eyes to take on board information that goes against your prejudices.

Where required they make sense... and I don't mean that from a responsibility/accountability point of view.



The source of information and ideas doesn't matter, it is the content that counts.



That's a nice piece of puff marketing from an undisclosed source

Typical fascist denial. You quack like one. So whilst you can disagree with Mr Fresco all you like, the evidence states otherwise.

[mashman]

Florida raises allowable limits of cancer-causing chemicals in drinking water ahead of fracking boom (http://www.naturalnews.com/054872_fracking_chemicals_water_supplies_exposure_ limits.html)

[bogan]

Where required they make sense... and I don't mean that from a responsibility/accountability point of view.





Typical fascist denial. You quack like one. So whilst you can disagree with Mr Fresco all you like, the evidence states otherwise.

I know, it's almost like that is what I'd been trying to explain to Scoober...

The source was undisclosed, and it was clearly the content I took issue with. Nor have you made mention of Fresco saying I'm a fascist. So what's your point?

[mashman]

I know, it's almost like that is what I'd been trying to explain to Scoober...

The source was undisclosed, and it was clearly the content I took issue with.

Oh Scoober already understood it. There was no need for you to explain it to him. But it was a nice deflection from your inability to handle what he was explaining to you. Nice try buttercup.

You said the source didn't matter. And I removed the Fresco stuff as you're not ready for it. I say that as an ex-fascist, as defined by Mr Fresco... you really aren't.

[bogan]

Oh Scoober already understood it. There was no need for you to explain it to him. But it was a nice deflection from your inability to handle what he was explaining to you. Nice try buttercup.

You said the source didn't matter. And I removed the Fresco stuff as you're not ready for it. I say that as an ex-fascist, as defined by Mr Fresco... you really aren't.

You just love putting words and meanings over what other people actually say and mean don't you...

Which it doesn't. You removed the Fresco stuff cos you keep demonstrating you have no idea what he is on about, and yes, that includes his vision for an RBE.

[mashman]

You just love putting words and meanings over what other people actually say and mean don't you...

Which it doesn't. You removed the Fresco stuff cos you keep demonstrating you have no idea what he is on about, and yes, that includes his vision for an RBE.

Nah, that's your job... as evidenced by the paragraph that you followed your first sentence with :killingme... you're the gift that just keeps on giving.

[bogan]

Nah, that's your job... as evidenced by the paragraph that you followed your first sentence with :killingme... you're the gift that just keeps on giving.

Get fucked mushwit.


That's not taking them away then is it? It's replacing them.
You take away managers a company can survive, you take away workers a company will fall

[mashman]

Get fucked mushwit.

He wasn't wrong... neither of you were. Tsk tsk... such a hypoctirical response.

Send your red and go stroke yourself happy again. Better yet, ask the woman who loves you to do it for you.

[mashman]

Florida raises allowable limits of cancer-causing chemicals in drinking water ahead of fracking boom (http://www.naturalnews.com/054872_fracking_chemicals_water_supplies_exposure_ limits.html)... managers :killingme

[bogan]

He wasn't wrong... neither of you were. Tsk tsk... such a hypoctirical response.

Send your red and go stroke yourself happy again. Better yet, ask the woman who loves you to do it for you.

In case you hadn't realised, it's the only response worth giving when you descend into your self delusion. You want to discuss actual points about RBE or Fresco etc, we'll go right ahead, you want to just ramble on about how everything is wrong, everyone else is a labelable thing and only you know best, add all these misquotes and other indoctrination memes, but never ever discuss any actual rational, then "get fucked mushwit" is the most appropriate response.

[mashman]

In case you hadn't realised, it's the only response worth giving when you descend into your self delusion. You want to discuss actual points about RBE or Fresco etc, we'll go right ahead, you want to just ramble on about how everything is wrong, everyone else is a labelable thing and only you know best, add all these misquotes and other indoctrination memes, but never ever discuss any actual rational, then "get fucked mushwit" is the most appropriate response.

I told you why I removed the Fresco stuff. You decided I did it for a different reason. That's evidence, not delusion... and it isn't that I know best at all (and I'm the labeller :killingme), the evidence does.

[Voltaire]

I told you why I removed the Fresco stuff. You decided I did it for a different reason. That's evidence, not delusion... and it isn't that I know best at all (and I'm the labeller :killingme), the evidence does.


Fresco's great, love that plaster look and eating outside.

[mashman]

Fresco's great, love that plaster look and eating outside.

That's his brother, Al.

[mashman]

So far, the Seattle minimum-wage increase is doing what it’s supposed to do (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/10/so-far-the-seattle-minimum-wage-increase-is-doing-what-its-supposed-to-do/?utm_term=.f3a38d292a61)

[Virago]

So far, the Seattle minimum-wage increase is doing what it’s supposed to do (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/08/10/so-far-the-seattle-minimum-wage-increase-is-doing-what-its-supposed-to-do/?utm_term=.f3a38d292a61)

I don't get it. Why do they want a pay rise? Shouldn't they want to do the job simply out of duty to their fellow man?

[Ocean1]

"Study shows minimum wage legislation produces higher minimum wage"

Meh.



Also, when there's a minimum productivity increase they'll be worth minimum wage.

[mashman]

I don't get it. Why do they want a pay rise? Shouldn't they want to do the job simply out of duty to their fellow man?

Worlds an odd place eh.


Also, when there's a minimum productivity increase they'll be worth minimum a wage.

Ok.

[Voltaire]

Global Wealth Calculator.
http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Relatively speaking if you own a house in NZ your wealthy.

[mashman]

Global Wealth Calculator.
http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Relatively speaking if you own a house in NZ your wealthy.

Oh the heady fall from the top 0.3% of NZ. Damn I was a good capitalist.

[Voltaire]

Oh the heady fall from the top 0.3% of NZ. Damn I was a good capitalist.

Agreed, tragic from there to prolific posting about financial fantasies on the arse end of a decaying Motorcycle forum.

chortleychortchort...

[Woodman]

Global Wealth Calculator.
http://www.globalrichlist.com/

Relatively speaking if you own a house in NZ your wealthy.

they didn't ask whether you ride an old BMW or not.

[Voltaire]

they didn't ask whether you ride an old BMW or not.

Those slow old things..... who would have one of them :rolleyes:

90% of the world would probably aspire to a Honda 50, other than Oxhole who prefers Mitsi Manginas

[mashman]

Agreed, tragic from there to prolific posting about financial fantasies on the arse end of a decaying Motorcycle forum.

chortleychortchort...

Achually I was a more prolific poster when I had a bike and when I had a job. You better hope I don't relapse and go all capitalist again :laugh:

[Brian d marge]

Spot your favorite KB karacter , .... I made it until 1 min 17
see how far you can go...


<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lOx4iftdy0c" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Some , didnt make the video ......


P.S. NEVER GO FULL RETARD

[mashman]

New laws for security services (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/32340026/new-laws-for-security-services/#page1)

[Brian d marge]

New laws for security services (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/32340026/new-laws-for-security-services/#page1)
Gosh golly wot a surprise..
I heard it on the news speak

sent for a divine source

[sidecar bob]

Achually I was a more prolific poster when I had a bike and when I had a job. You better hope I don't relapse and go all capitalist again :laugh:

It was fantastic bike too, I can't believe you could bear to part with it. Jay had an absolute ball on it.

[mashman]

It was fantastic bike too, I can't believe you could bear to part with it. Jay had an absolute ball on it.

:weep: when needs must and the head ain't on the ride anymore etc... Glad he enjoyed it :yes:

[Akzle]

New laws for security services (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/32340026/new-laws-for-security-services/#page1)

well thank fuck he mentioned isil, otherwise noone would know that TERRORISM00111!!!!001.

srsly. they're getting some mileage out of that. wonder what happens when everyone finds out that jews, err, america is pretty much wholly funding "them"

[Ocean1]

How anyone can spin shit to such an extreme is amazing.

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/new-zealands-most-shameful-secret-we-have-normalised-child-poverty/ar-BBvFyPr?li=AA59FU&ocid=spartandhp

Is it possible they're divorced from reality enough that they actually believe their own shite?

[Brian d marge]

Is it possible they're divorced from reality enough that they actually believe their own shite?

U seem to post here quite happily

sent for a divine source

[sidecar bob]

How anyone can spin shit to such an extreme is amazing.

http://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/new-zealands-most-shameful-secret-we-have-normalised-child-poverty/ar-BBvFyPr?li=AA59FU&ocid=spartandhp

Is it possible they're divorced from reality enough that they actually believe their own shite?

All I could see was my tax dollars being burnt by complaining helpless idiots that expect others to fix their problems.

[mashman]

Government approves $1.7b military base revamp (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/83215536/government-approves-17b-military-base-revamp)

[sidecar bob]

Government approves $1.7b military base revamp (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/83215536/government-approves-17b-military-base-revamp)

Well thank fuck my tax dollars are being spent on something that is some benefit to the general populace.
I don't want my country's military operating out of some old shit that was left over from WW2.

[Ocean1]

U seem to post here quite happily

sent for a divine source

Can't say I'm happy with stupid shite anywhere, but better it's here in Stupid World than cluttering up the real one.

[mashman]

Orwellian CA bill: reporters can’t post undercover videos (https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2016/08/15/orwellian-ca-bill-reporters-cant-post-undercover-videos/)

Spraying Begins in Miami to Combat the Zika Virus (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/05/health/spraying-begins-in-miami-to-combat-the-zika-virus.html?_r=0)

[Brian d marge]

Can't say I'm happy with stupid shite anywhere, but better it's here in Stupid World than cluttering up the real one.
Yes the real one ..is bad enough [emoji12]

sent for a divine source

[Ocean1]

All I could see was my tax dollars being burnt by complaining helpless idiots that expect others to fix their problems.

It's almost as if social welfare isn't significantly more generous than it's ever been before.

Fuck, my grandmother was embarrassed to get a bag of coal and a bag of spuds from the mayoral relief fund one year.

[Madness]

http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/83167317/anne-salmond-the-idea-theres-no-such-thing-as-society-is-extremely-damaging

[Ocean1]

http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/83167317/anne-salmond-the-idea-theres-no-such-thing-as-society-is-extremely-damaging

Like an academic is ever going to do anything but blame teh "neo-liberals" for everything.

God forbid they should ever have to produce anything commensurate with their remuneration, they might actually learn something.

[Madness]

Like an academic is ever going to do anything but blame teh "neo-liberals" for everything.

God forbid they should ever have to produce anything commensurate with their remuneration, they might actually learn something.

Hey, if it wasn't for academics we'd be eating cheeseburgers flipped by dropouts.

[Katman]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/311225/kiwisavers-fund-cluster-bombs,-land-mines

[Banditbandit]

Hey, if it wasn't for academics we'd be eating cheeseburgers flipped by dropouts.


:rofl:

At least hey pay me better than any other job ...

[Banditbandit]

It's almost as if social welfare isn't significantly more generous than it's ever been before.

Fuck, my grandmother was embarrassed to get a bag of coal and a bag of spuds from the mayoral relief fund one year.



More people today need to be like her ... are you going to be embarrassed to accept welfare when you turn 65?

[Voltaire]

More people today need to be like her ... are you going to be embarrassed to accept welfare when you turn 65?


That's not welfare, for Baby Boomers getting the Super is an entitlement, for all the tax they paid for 45 years ;)

[Akzle]

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/311225/kiwisavers-fund-cluster-bombs,-land-mines

this is news to people??

i mean fuck. morally, no-one should be paying tax. and as for ACC, they're invested in HP (jews). (and monsanto (jews), dupont, johnson and johnson (jews), colgate-palmolive (jews), intel (totally jews) procter and gamble (jews), disney (zomfg jews alright), teva pharm (jews) and many many other shitty companies. vis: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1618832/000161883216000007/xslForm13F_X01/13F_Filing_30_Jun_2016.xml )

HP are, of course, the ones who design the computer systems for the israeli built prisons in occupied palestine. the rest... fucken look it up.

[Ocean1]

More people today need to be like her ... are you going to be embarrassed to accept welfare when you turn 65?

Was a widow by then, still had 5 kids at home and only the income from the eldest doing odd jobs around Karitane. More often than not dinner was pipis.


I'll be fucking furious to accept welfare at 65, would mean some arsehole has stolen all my retirement funds.

[Ocean1]

That's not welfare, for Baby Boomers getting the Super is an entitlement, for all the tax they paid for 45 years ;)

You know what will happen before we get there? Labour will get in and asset test super entitlements.

Which sorta makes it like every other fucking benefit.

A) If you can salt away a mill or so then you're all good, you don't need the pension you paid for anyway. Fuck 'em.

B) If you retire having pissed it all up agin' a wall somewhere and owning fuck all you get the pension. Not good, but at least you've got that minimum.

C) If, like most of us you own your house and maybe a couple of hundred thou in investments then you're fucked, you don't have enough to live well on, but you're a rich prick, no pension for you.

So if you get to your late 50's and shit's not looking like you're going to clear the hurdle to achieve "A" then you need to make like every other beneficiary and blow the fucking lot on an extended overseas jaunt, so you'll be eligible for "B"

[Akzle]

You know what will happen before we get there? Labour will get in and asset test super entitlements.

Which sorta makes it like every other fucking benefit.

A) If you can salt away a mill or so then you're all good, you don't need the pension you paid for anyway. Fuck 'em.

B) If you retire having pissed it all up agin' a wall somewhere and owning fuck all you get the pension. Not good, but at least you've got that minimum.

C) If, like most of us you own your house and maybe a couple of hundred thou in investments then you're fucked, you don't have enough to live well on, but you're a rich prick, no pension for you.

So if you get to your late 50's and shit's not looking like you're going to clear the hurdle to achieve "A" then you need to make like every other beneficiary and blow the fucking lot on an extended overseas jaunt, so you'll be eligible for "B"

money's good eh.

[Akzle]

o my fucken noes!

this is fucking news!

http://www.newshub.co.nz/world/chip-fans-fuming-over-pringles-changes-2016081912

[sidecar bob]

money's good eh.

Well it does seem to give one some choices beyond sitting in a rented house deciding which forum upon to wind people up on of an evening.

[Akzle]

Well it does seem to give one some choices beyond sitting in a rented house deciding which forum upon to wind people up on of an evening.

:killingme

.. house!!.. :laugh: nigger, caravan, remember? in a paddock with goats...
c'mon...

[mashman]

UK government told: ‘You can borrow for free, so get spending' (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-government-told-borrow-free-050426912.html). Lulz.

[Brian d marge]

UK government told: ‘You can borrow for free, so get spending' (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/uk-government-told-borrow-free-050426912.html). Lulz.
Didn't they try that before ...the old English poof gave it a name if I remember

sent for a divine source

[mashman]

New Indian party doesn't surprise Key (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/top-stories/a/32483165/new-indian-party-doesnt-surprise-key/#page1)...

"Mr Peters says New Zealand can't afford to get caught up in race-based politics.

"No country is going to progress if we have political parties spending time accentuating their differences," he said."

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa accentuating their differences.

[mashman]

Amazon and Starbucks 'pay less tax than Austrian sausage stall;, says country's chancellor (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/amazon-and-starbucks-pay-less-tax-than-austrian-sausage-stall-says-countrys-chancellor-a7223666.html)... lollies

[Brian d marge]

Well apple is the same and the EU told ireland they have to take the money , to which ,ireland quite rightly, told the EU to go fk itself and said we will not take apples 1.4 billion dollars in owed tax.., that Austrian sausage stall puts through quite a lot of sausages me thinks hahahaha

sent for a divine source

[Akzle]

i do enjoy a good sausage.

amazon can eat a big bowl of dicks and die.

[mashman]

Shamubeel Eaqub: Debt binge now bigger than before the global finance crisis (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/83855592/shamubeel-eaqub-debt-binge-now-bigger-than-before-the-global-finance-crisis)...

"It is becoming increasingly clear that the way we use debt is not working.

It is more prone to help in swapping assets from each other at ever higher prices, rather than investing in long term assets that create ongoing and future benefits."

No... really.

[Voltaire]

Shamubeel Eaqub: Debt binge now bigger than before the global finance crisis (http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/83855592/shamubeel-eaqub-debt-binge-now-bigger-than-before-the-global-finance-crisis)...

"It is becoming increasingly clear that the way we use debt is not working.

It is more prone to help in swapping assets from each other at ever higher prices, rather than investing in long term assets that create ongoing and future benefits."

No... really.


Boomers like to moan about high interest rates in the 70s and 80s, but they forget that in the decade to 1980 wages rose by 300 per cent, and in the decade to 1990 wages rose by 112 per cent.

I enjoy a good moan but......
I bought my first decent stereo when I was 16 and it was fecking Thorn 3 in 1 and was about $700 on Lay By...when you put a deposit down and paid it off before you got it.
First car stereo was some similar rip off price, and my first car was a 20 year old VW that I had to pay off to my old Man.
I don't think Credit Cards turned up till about 1984 ish, I was declined for a home loan about that time as I did not have a " Home Loan " savings account.
It was pretty hard to run on debt then and other than a house and a car there was bugger all to buy anyway.

[Brian d marge]

I enjoy a good moan but......
I bought my first decent stereo when I was 16 and it was fecking Thorn 3 in 1 and was about $700 on Lay By...when you put a deposit down and paid it off before you got it.
First car stereo was some similar rip off price, and my first car was a 20 year old VW that I had to pay off to my old Man.
I don't think Credit Cards turned up till about 1984 ish, I was declined for a home loan about that time as I did not have a " Home Loan " savings account.
It was pretty hard to run on debt then and other than a house and a car there was bugger all to buy anyway.
Glass steagal act repealed in the 80s allowing banks to invest and what do banks do ......lend money

sent for a divine source

[Ocean1]

Glass steagal act repealed in the 80s allowing banks to invest and what do banks do ......lend money

sent for a divine source

Yep. Other people's money.

Of which there was a distinct shortage in the times Voly's talking about.

The point being it's difficult to bitch and moan about how tragically hard times are when so many people have so much money that they can't give it away at almost any price.

[Brian d marge]

Yep. Other people's money.

Of which there was a distinct shortage in the times Voly's talking about.

The point being it's difficult to bitch and moan about how tragically hard times are when so many people have so much money that they can't give it away at almost any price.

where did the money go ?.....oh thats right , we had to borrow for energy ...... and I am still trying to give away my Zimbabwian sheckles ...whats with is that ?

but never fear a raft of user pays bullshyt and a few student loan will see the country right ....and I could alway blame Muldoon, as one does


:facepalm:

[Ocean1]

where did the money go ?.....oh thats right , we had to borrow for energy ...... and I am still trying to give away my Zimbabwian sheckles ...whats with is that ?

but never fear a raft of user pays bullshyt and a few student loan will see the country right ....and I could alway blame Muldoon, as one does


:facepalm:

What money?

What energy?

If you bought Zimbabwian currency at any time then you're one of the few idiots that did. Which explains a lot.

And by all means blame Muldoon, but it's mostly just you that does. Blaming people for shit you don't understand is what you do, and your lack of understanding leaves limitless opportunity for blame.

[Brian d marge]

What money?

What energy?

If you bought Zimbabwian currency at any time then you're one of the few idiots that did. Which explains a lot.

And by all means blame Muldoon, but it's mostly just you that does. Blaming people for shit you don't understand is what you do, and your lack of understanding leaves limitless opportunity for blame.
I think you might not have understood , Still dont feel bad , when your ready there are plenty of people that will run the story past you in an easy to follow narrative.

or you might try thinking .

[Ocean1]

I think you might not have understood , Still dont feel bad , when your ready there are plenty of people that will run the story past you in an easy to follow narrative.

or you might try thinking .

Don't see the need to understand that peculiarly 80's academic socialist's overly fraught faux-paranoia, in much the same way I don't need to understand any other delusional psychosis; it's just not that useful out here in the real world.

[Laava]

If you bought Zimbabwian currency at any time then you're one of the few idiots that did.

Hey, when in rome etc! I bought Zim dollars and still have some left. When I bought it it was not worth the paper it was printed on. It has since devalued significantly. However when you are travelling in these places you need local currency, and if you are smart and brave you will change it on the black market where you will get 2-5 times what the banks will give you.

[mashman]

I enjoy a good moan but......
I bought my first decent stereo when I was 16 and it was fecking Thorn 3 in 1 and was about $700 on Lay By...when you put a deposit down and paid it off before you got it.
First car stereo was some similar rip off price, and my first car was a 20 year old VW that I had to pay off to my old Man.
I don't think Credit Cards turned up till about 1984 ish, I was declined for a home loan about that time as I did not have a " Home Loan " savings account.
It was pretty hard to run on debt then and other than a house and a car there was bugger all to buy anyway.

Tis always ironical when averages/medians are brought up to paint a picture of supposedly spread and shared wage wealth increase.
And yeah, when I were a lad... oooo, kittens.

[Ocean1]

Tis always ironical when averages/medians are brought up to paint a picture of supposedly spread and shared wage wealth increase.
And yeah, when I were a lad... oooo, kittens.

A: it wasn't.

B: Averages/Medians are valid expressions. Unless, C: You don't understand basic arithmetic, or D: Their use reveals shit you don't like.

[mashman]

A: it wasn't.

B: Averages/Medians are valid expressions. Unless, C: You don't understand basic arithmetic, or D: Their use reveals shit you don't like.

I see you chose D. Wise choice.

[Voltaire]

A: it wasn't.

B: Averages/Medians are valid expressions. Unless, C: You don't understand basic arithmetic, or D: Their use reveals shit you don't like.

That's right, John Quay said average house price in NZ are better than when Labour were the Govt ( or something like that).....really John.... who writes his stuff ...Donald Trump?

[Ocean1]

That's right, John Quay said average house price in NZ are better than when Labour were the Govt ( or something like that).....really John.... who writes his stuff ...Donald Trump?

And more importantly: Was he correct?

[Ocean1]

I see you chose D. Wise choice.

I didn't choose anything. That would be you, as usual choosing something that's not actually there.

[mashman]

I didn't choose anything. That would be you, as usual choosing something that's not actually there.

True, I did choose for you... I'da gone with some form of statistical calculation based on selected datasets. Ya know, the usual way these sorts of things are calculated in order to derive averages/medians that fit the narrative required to smoke and mirror confidence for the gullible that all is well. Neat trick, bit old though.