Stupid World

[Brian d marge]

inflation is stealing that cash under the willow tree . .sliver and gold are
cheap

[Akzle]

inflation is stealing that cash under the willow tree . .sliver and gold are
cheap

fuken hilariously!

Too bad theyre not actually worth anything.

Guns and boolits. Guns and boolits.

[Brian d marge]

fuken hilariously!

Too bad theyre not actually worth anything.

Guns and boolits. Guns and boolits.
thing is the boys upstairs want us to go seppo and start lobbin pointy things so the have a reason to bring in the heavys

fergason usa notice they pulled out of the poor areas and let them get on with it

im thinking more of a more refusing to comply type of style now

just do me own thing and if pointy things need to be thrown ,i have that base covered

#ilovemysamicksage45lb
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[Brian d marge]

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reckon its only a matter of time before london kicks off again !
Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Why does the word agenda keep springing to mind ........


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Stephen

[mashman]

fuken hilariously!

Too bad theyre not actually worth anything.

Guns and boolits. Guns and boolits.

I'll be putting my money into hammers.

[oldrider]

Why does the word agenda keep springing to mind ........ Stephen

Most significant quote of all time: "Give me control of the finances of the world I care not who makes the laws" Rothschild - IMF! :first::yes: He got it in one! :niceone:

[Akzle]

i just fucking lol at how you old white cunts dont get it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303345/Britains-debt-mountain-reaches-1-39TRILLION-equivalent-90-entire-economy-ONS-reveals.html

1.4 trillion debt. Few billion in dubdub one 'war bonds' to pay. Rolling defecit of 90 billion.

Nothing to see here folks, carry on.

[Ocean1]

i just fucking lol at how you old white cunts dont get it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303345/Britains-debt-mountain-reaches-1-39TRILLION-equivalent-90-entire-economy-ONS-reveals.html

1.4 trillion debt. Few billion in dubdub one 'war bonds' to pay. Rolling defecit of 90 billion.

Nothing to see here folks, carry on.

The old white cunts don't give a fuck, dude, they're not the ones with all the debt.

[Akzle]

The old white cunts don't give a fuck, dude, they're not the ones with all the debt.


i somehow dont think you comprehend what im saying.


And. Youre a poor old white cunt.

[Ocean1]

i somehow dont think you comprehend what im saying.


And. Youre a poor old white cunt.

Nobody understands what you're saying. Including you.

Also, as it's the latest in a long history of shit not worth bothering with I don't give a fuck.

[bogan]

The old white cunts don't give a fuck, dude, they're not the ones with all the debt.

Probably still give more effective fucks about it than the plebs though, who just use the excuse to soapbox it up for there lazy rantings. I mean god help us all if the stupid worlders were ever in charge of an economy's wealth/resource/production dynamics.

[Brian d marge]

i just fucking lol at how you old white cunts dont get it

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303345/Britains-debt-mountain-reaches-1-39TRILLION-equivalent-90-entire-economy-ONS-reveals.html

1.4 trillion debt. Few billion in dubdub one 'war bonds' to pay. Rolling defecit of 90 billion.

Nothing to see here folks, carry on.
#suckmycockbyatch

[Brian d marge]

The old white cunts don't give a fuck, dude, they're not the ones with all the debt.
u are seriously not getting any green

[Brian d marge]

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/07/516f8b1ac2a16cf0b7f4c5edc5ac89cc.jpg

old white crackers . . u may remember this

[Brian d marge]

doesnt matter what u think this shit is happening and if u dont care . .i dont care either . . so dont whine when i take ur tv

dont destroy ur local burn the rich

and the poor door

[jonbuoy]

doesnt matter what u think this shit is happening and if u dont care . .i dont care either . . so dont whine when i take ur tv

dont destroy ur local burn the rich

and the poor door

You are rich compared to most of the planets population. Be careful what you wish for. As for the debt - there are very few countries that don't have any debt. None of the debt saddled nations have any intention of paying it back any time soon.

[blue rider]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2855776/judge-give-nsa-unlimited-access-to-digital-data.html

privacy, such a quaint concept.

[blue rider]

The old white cunts don't give a fuck, dude, they're not the ones with all the debt.


I am sure that some of these cunts here are fucking white old cunts.


http://www.familiescommission.org.nz/web/beyond-reasonable-debt/part-one.html



However, i really believe that you should not think of yourself as an old white cunt as this is a contradiction in terms as that area of the human anatomy is useful and serves a purpose. You on the other side, have long ago stopped to be anything else but some sort of Hooray Henry with ideas that were put to rest the day Ayn Rand started receiving and accepting Social Welfare once she turned into an old white cunt.

[Akzle]

The old white cunts don't give a fuck, dude, they're not the ones with all the debt.

world war one.
england

yeah i'd say it was old white cunts.

[mashman]

Two greedy RBS bankers who used their jobs to run £3million property fraud escape jail because judge says THEY 'have suffered' (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2851703/Two-greedy-RBS-bankers-used-jobs-run-3million-property-fraud-escape-jail-judge-says-suffered.html)... poor guys must have had it so bad :facepalm:

[jonbuoy]

world war one.
england

yeah i'd say it was old white cunts.

The black cunts were still throwing rocks and sharp sticks at each other so you cant blame them.

[Banditbandit]

The black cunts were still throwing rocks and sharp sticks at each other so you cant blame them.

Yeah ??? As if dumb white fucks invented gunpowder ...

[jonbuoy]

Yeah ??? As if dumb white fucks invented gunpowder ...

They were yellow not Black.

[Akzle]

The black cunts were still throwing rocks and sharp sticks at each other so you cant blame them.

yup, there's a large amount of debt associated with sharpening sticks and picking up rocks... remind me how much debt dem negroes accumulated eh?

[jonbuoy]

yup, there's a large amount of debt associated with sharpening sticks and picking up rocks... remind me how much debt dem negroes accumulated eh?

None grass skirts and sticks are free - you can go back to living that way too if you want. I'll stick with the "broken" system we have now - like the majority of westerners I have a higher standard of living than my parents/grandparents did at my age.

[Akzle]

None grass skirts and sticks are free - you can go back to living that way too if you want. I'll stick with the "broken" system we have now - like the majority of westerners I have a higher standard of living than my parents/grandparents did at my age.

that's because you borrowed invented money.

[Ocean1]

None grass skirts and sticks are free - you can go back to living that way too if you want. I'll stick with the "broken" system we have now - like the majority of westerners I have a higher standard of living than my parents/grandparents did at my age.

Living standards in the west are certainly better than they've ever been, but those improvements pale into insignificance beside those in the third world.


Hardly seems fair that all those poor people have done better than us, eh?

[Akzle]

Living standards in the west are certainly better than they've ever been, but those improvements pale into insignificance beside those in the third world.


Hardly seems fair that all those poor people have done better than us, eh?

who profited from that?

[mashman]

I'll stick with the "broken" system we have now - like the majority of westerners I have a higher standard of living than my parents/grandparents did at my age.

And of course enforce it on everyone else :facepalm: You don't have a higher standard of living at all, you have the choice of more stuff is all. Baaaaaaaaa

[bogan]

And of course enforce it on everyone else :facepalm: You don't have a higher standard of living at all, you have the choice of more stuff is all. Baaaaaaaaa

Everyone still has the choice to be debt free but a lower standard of living.

Lots of people blaming the lenders for lending, surely some of the blame should go to those who borrow? Though I guess that would encourage action on your part instead of bleating about others; Baaaaaaa indeed.

[jonbuoy]

And of course enforce it on everyone else :facepalm: You don't have a higher standard of living at all, you have the choice of more stuff is all. Baaaaaaaaa

Nope I have a better standard of living than my parents and grandparents.

[Ocean1]

who profited from that?

Poor people. Think I mentioned that didn't I?

Them, and dole bludgers.

[Banditbandit]

http://canofstupid.com/stupid-index.php

[jonbuoy]

Poor people. Think I mentioned that didn't I?

Them, and dole bludgers.

The huge number of people risking their lives to get into a western country one way or another backs that up. Probably work a damn site harder than a lot of spoilt westerners bleating and crying they didn't make the most of the free education and opportunities they were offered from birth.

[Ocean1]

Everyone still has the choice to be debt free but a lower standard of living.

Yup. Or work harder for a better living standard with no debt.

Up to a point. After that they take it off you to give to dole bludgers. So that they can also have a better standard of living than their parents.

And yours.

[mashman]

Nope I have a better standard of living than my parents and grandparents.

What, because you have access to more stuff?

[mashman]

Everyone still has the choice to be debt free but a lower standard of living.

Lots of people blaming the lenders for lending, surely some of the blame should go to those who borrow? Though I guess that would encourage action on your part instead of bleating about others; Baaaaaaa indeed.

No they don't.

And there's been plenty of dodgy lending to meet that demand that was always there. The blame game is pointless... well, other than for scared old white muthafuckas to validate their entitlement complex that is.

[mashman]

Yup. Or work harder for a better living standard with no debt.


bwaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[jonbuoy]

What, because you have access to more stuff?

No - I don't have to worry about bills, I can travel overseas easily and cheaply for holidays , eat out much more often, better healthcare more liberal attitudes.

What was better "back in the day"?

[bogan]

No they don't.

And there's been plenty of dodgy lending to meet that demand that was always there. The blame game is pointless... well, other than for scared old white muthafuckas to validate their entitlement complex that is.

So what are the unavoidable reasons you have to go into debt then? Stay renting, live within your means (or that of the dole), and you will fulfill the basic needs of food, housing, and healthcare. Debt is your choice.

For every dodgy lending, there must be a dodgy borrowing. Blame doesn't validate my entitlements, market forces and my purchasing power do. Other people decide I am entitled to quite a lot, since I'm a hardout.

[mashman]

No - I don't have to worry about bills, I can travel overseas easily and cheaply for holidays , eat out much more often, better healthcare more liberal attitudes.

What was better "back in the day"?

Like I said, access to more stuff.

They had exactly the same opportunities.

[Akzle]

Everyone still has the choice to be debt free but a lower standard of living.

Lots of people blaming the lenders for lending, surely some of the blame should go to those who borrow? Though I guess that would encourage action on your part instead of bleating about others; Baaaaaaa indeed.

you say that as though the money existed, before this magic 'lendy borrowy' shit happened...

Also, just hanging on to this wwi thing,
who chose to go in to debt for that?
Wasnt me. Wasnt the last 2 or 3 generations. Just some old white fucks that couldnt make the repayments in their life time...
Fair game though eh?

[mashman]

So what are the unavoidable reasons you have to go into debt then? Stay renting, live within your means (or that of the dole), and you will fulfill the basic needs of food, housing, and healthcare. Debt is your choice.

For every dodgy lending, there must be a dodgy borrowing. Blame doesn't validate my entitlements, market forces and my purchasing power do. Other people decide I am entitled to quite a lot, since I'm a hardout.

Ask the billions who comprise the poverty stats.

Entitlement can't exist without blame... and you go on to blame others for allowing you to be entitled to whatever you receive. Lulz it is.

[jonbuoy]

Like I said, access to more stuff.

They had exactly the same opportunities.

Really - they could cure as many cancers back then? Your grandparents had access to Jet travel? Unmarried and gay couples could live together? Your grandparents could take a hot shower every day? Your grandmother could sign for a loan without your grandfathers permission? Get paid the same as your grandfather to do the same job?

[bogan]

you say that as though the money existed, before this magic 'lendy borrowy' shit happened...

Also, just hanging on to this wwi thing,
who chose to go in to debt for that?
Wasnt me. Wasnt the last 2 or 3 generations. Just some old white fucks that couldnt make the repayments in their life time...
Fair game though eh?

The wealth did.


Ask the billions who comprise the poverty stats.

Entitlement can't exist without blame... and you go on to blame others for allowing you to be entitled to whatever you receive. Lulz it is.

What their choice is, is just that, their choice.

Sorry mashy, productivity is the answer we were looking for, entitlement can't exist without productivity; others choose to reward my productivity as they see fit. Again, the choice is theirs. Capitalist freedom baby, it just works :niceone:

[mashman]

Really - they could cure as many cancers back then? Your grandparents had access to Jet travel? Unmarried and gay couples could live together? Your grandparents could take a hot shower every day? Your grandmother could sign for a loan without your grandfathers permission? Get paid the same as your grandfather to do the same job?

They can't cure them today. They flew on airplanes yes. My Grandma was illegitimate and still married my Grandad, irrespective of how badly it was frowned upon. My other Grandad was gay and did indeed live with his partner. Oddly enough hot water existed, even back in the day. My wife can't get a mortgage without me today. Women are still underpaid in relation to their male counterparts today.

[mashman]

What their choice is, is just that, their choice.

Sorry mashy, productivity is the answer we were looking for, entitlement can't exist without productivity; others choose to reward my productivity as they see fit. Again, the choice is theirs. Capitalist freedom baby, it just works :niceone:

Yet some practices will see one in jail and another walking free for the same crime. Turns out that it's not their choice after all.

The answer you were looking for? :killingme. Like I said, you need to blame someone for your entitlement complex.

[jonbuoy]

They can't cure them today. They flew on airplanes yes. My Grandma was illegitimate and still married my Grandad, irrespective of how badly it was frowned upon. My other Grandad was gay and did indeed live with his partner. Oddly enough hot water existed, even back in the day. My wife can't get a mortgage without me today. Women are still underpaid in relation to their male counterparts today.

Only the jetset flew in jets it wasn't until the package holidays arrived that working class people were able to head overseas for their summer holidays. They can cure a lot more today than they used to - almost none. They did have access to hot water but very few people took hot showers every day. And women are a lot less underpaid than they used to be. Despite at one point being the bread winner in the house my mother couldn't even sign for a loan for a TV. Being openly gay was not socially acceptable in the past.

I'd rather live in the present than the past.

[bogan]

Yet some practices will see one in jail and another walking free for the same crime. Turns out that it's not their choice after all.

The answer you were looking for? :killingme. Like I said, you need to blame someone for your entitlement complex.

What crime? living withing your means is no crime, neither is borrowing if you do so responsibly.

I need someone to thank for my entitlements, impulse buying I dropped a grand on a GFX card the other week, thanks Obama :2thumbsup

[oldrider]

What crime? living withing your means is no crime, neither is borrowing if you do so responsibly.

I need someone to thank for my entitlements, impulse buying I dropped a grand on a GFX card the other week, thanks Obama :2thumbsup

Entitlement ... you should read Danger in the comfort zone ... the extract is better reading than the actual book! :yes:

[mashman]

Only the jetset flew in jets it wasn't until the package holidays arrived that working class people were able to head overseas for their summer holidays. They can cure a lot more today than they used to - almost none. They did have access to hot water but very few people took hot showers every day. And women are a lot less underpaid than they used to be. Despite at one point being the bread winner in the house my mother couldn't even sign for a loan for a TV. Being openly gay was not socially acceptable in the past.

I'd rather live in the present than the past.

So noone went abroad because there was no such thing as the package holiday? Did they have as many cancers back in the day (down Akzle)? How do you know that very few took hot showers every day? Still not paid the same for the same work as you stated. Nothing changed in regards to loan guarantors then. It was perfectly socially acceptable. T'was the noisy minority that said it wasn't accompanied by some of the gullible public.

Then stop comparing past and present.

[mashman]

What crime? living withing your means is no crime, neither is borrowing if you do so responsibly.

I need someone to thank for my entitlements, impulse buying I dropped a grand on a GFX card the other week, thanks Obama :2thumbsup

See the earlier posted article on the RBS pair getting off with fraud where anyone else will be sent down for it.

I rest my case.

[bogan]

See the earlier posted article on the RBS pair getting off with fraud where anyone else will be sent down for it.

I rest my case.

And you think fraud is required to live within you means? Or are you just playing the <s>blame</s> bleat game.

[mashman]

And you think fraud is required to live within you means? Or are you just playing the <s>blame</s> bleat game.

It certainly looks like fraud is required to live within your means when it comes to the entitlement brigade who take it upon themselves to decide what their means should be in order for them to live. It usually takes thousands of people to commit the same value of fraud at the lower end of the scale, yet they're the ones in jail. You wanna hedge your bets as to where the vast majority of the money that is being squandered is and who is committing fraud to ensure that they means meet their entitlements? No blame, just a simple observation that seems to elude the caughts when deciding who should be punished and who shouldn't. Yer basic injustice type of thing.

[bogan]

It certainly looks like fraud is required to live within your means when it comes to the entitlement brigade who take it upon themselves to decide what their means should be in order for them to live. It usually takes thousands of people to commit the same value of fraud at the lower end of the scale, yet they're the ones in jail. You wanna hedge your bets as to where the vast majority of the money that is being squandered is and who is committing fraud to ensure that they means meet their entitlements? No blame, just a simple observation that seems to elude the caughts when deciding who should be punished and who shouldn't. Yer basic injustice type of thing.

So when it comes to honest hardworking people, you can live entirely within your means without committing fraud. Good we cleared that up for you.

[mashman]

So when it comes to honest hardworking people, you can live entirely within your means without committing fraud. Good we cleared that up for you.

Hard work has nothing to do with it. Only a blithering idiot would crow otherwise. I didn't say you couldn't.

[bogan]

Hard work has nothing to do with it.

The mantra of all stupid worlders :killingme

[mashman]

The mantra of all stupid worlders :killingme

I take that as a compliment. Chur.

[Ocean1]

I take that as a compliment. Chur.

Which is almost enough to prove even to you that you really are an idiot.

And Bogy's perfectly correct: hard work and someone happy to pay for it = money.

He's also correct that people that vehemently deny that perfectly obvious truism are inevitably lazy cunts.

Must really suck to be you.

[mashman]

Which is almost enough to prove even to you that you really are an idiot.

And Bogy's perfectly correct: hard work and someone happy to pay for it = money.

He's also correct that people that vehemently deny that perfectly obvious truism are inevitably lazy cunts.

Must really suck to be you.

Only if you know what I meant.

:killingme...

:killingme :crybaby: :killingme...

Not in the slightest.

[jonbuoy]

So noone went abroad because there was no such thing as the package holiday? Did they have as many cancers back in the day (down Akzle)? How do you know that very few took hot showers every day? Still not paid the same for the same work as you stated. Nothing changed in regards to loan guarantors then. It was perfectly socially acceptable. T'was the noisy minority that said it wasn't accompanied by some of the gullible public.

Then stop comparing past and present.

She couldn't sign for the loan because she was a woman - not because she was being means tested. Why don't you ask your grandparents if they had hot water on tap or if they had to boil the water to take a bath. Just because the cancers weren't diagnosed doesn't mean they didn't exist. It was mostly the wealthier middle and upper class that could afford jet travel. Alan Turing would disagree with you on social acceptance of being gay.

Maybe read up on the past - might make you more appreciative of the present.

[mashman]

She couldn't sign for the loan because she was a woman - not because she was being means tested. Why don't you ask your grandparents if they had hot water on tap or if they had to boil the water to take a bath. Just because the cancers weren't diagnosed doesn't mean they didn't exist. It was mostly the wealthier middle and upper class that could afford jet travel. Alan Turing would disagree with you on social acceptance of being gay.

Maybe read up on the past - might make you more appreciative of the present.

Bummer. It all depended on where they lived in regards to water. Like I said, they got access to more stuff (still did the same things though). That cancer wasn't diagnosed doesn't mean it was there. Even them dirty smokers survived to a similar age that we will. I doubt my grandparents flew, too late to ask too (I miss her chocolate cake). He probably would... I didn't say that being gay wasn't a "stigma", but being gay was accepted.

I'd rather look to the future thanks as it seems that we never learn from the past, even when we do have more access to stuff that goes ping. I appreciate the present a whole lot more than accepting that my past will define my future. Therefore I am appreciative of everything that mankind has achieved, and I'd like to see that continue.

[Ocean1]

Bummer. It all depended on where they lived in regards to water. Like I said, they got access to more stuff (still did the same things though). That cancer wasn't diagnosed doesn't mean it was there. Even them dirty smokers survived to a similar age that we will. I doubt my grandparents flew, too late to ask too (I miss her chocolate cake). He probably would... I didn't say that being gay wasn't a "stigma", but being gay was accepted.

I'd rather look to the future thanks as it seems that we never learn from the past, even when we do have more access to stuff that goes ping. I appreciate the present a whole lot more than accepting that my past will define my future. Therefore I am appreciative of everything that mankind has achieved, and I'd like to see that continue.

Comprehensively wrong.

I think the answer you're desperately trying to avoid is here: http://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/2007/index2007_chapter1.pdf

And yes, it says that everyone is better off in pretty much every detail than they've ever been, particularly the poor.

Only an idiot would try to pretend that capitalism and competitive industry haven't been a resounding success.

Face it, the facts say that capitalism is performing spectacularly better than any other in human history, and they say you're an idiot.

[Scuba_Steve]

Only an idiot would try to pretend that capitalism and competitive industry haven't been a resounding success.

Face it, the facts say that capitalism is performing spectacularly better than any other in human history, and they say you're an idiot.

... "Facts" brought to you by capitalism :msn-wink:

[Akzle]

Just because the cancers weren't diagnosed doesn't mean they didn't exist.

yes and no. Cancer rates have been fairly flat. Since fuken babylonian times.

Asthma, obesity, heart disease, alzheimers, autism... Now these are all things to ask why.

[Akzle]

hard work and someone happy to pay for it = money.


thats a really fuking odd statement. But i dont expect you, as a poor old white fuck, to see it.

Money=money. Is all that can be said.

jews invented that shit. Own and control it.
And given the choice, y'd want nothing to do with that toxic shit.

I work hard for free, as far as i can manage.

[Ocean1]

... "Facts" brought to you by capitalism :msn-wink:

Correct. And completely unmolested.

Can you find credible evidence showing how the world's poor are historically worse off as a result of capitalism?

Perhaps you just need to talk to an old person for a touch of perspective...

[mashman]

Comprehensively wrong.

I think the answer you're desperately trying to avoid is here: http://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/2007/index2007_chapter1.pdf

And yes, it says that everyone is better off in pretty much every detail than they've ever been, particularly the poor.

Only an idiot would try to pretend that capitalism and competitive industry haven't been a resounding success.

Face it, the facts say that capitalism is performing spectacularly better than any other in human history, and they say you're an idiot.

On noes you rolled out a report. Shame that record poverty in the western world proves your theory to be nothing more than meaningless numbers of a page.

That you attribute that which humans have achieved to capitalism and competitive industry instead of the people and their ideas speaks volumes. Your white streak is showing.

[bogan]

Comprehensively wrong.

I think the answer you're desperately trying to avoid is here: http://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/2007/index2007_chapter1.pdf

And yes, it says that everyone is better off in pretty much every detail than they've ever been, particularly the poor.

Only an idiot would try to pretend that capitalism and competitive industry haven't been a resounding success.

Face it, the facts say that capitalism is performing spectacularly better than any other in human history, and they say you're an idiot.

Pretty good read that; certainly we have come a long way with capitalism. Kinda makes me feel good about buying ex-china too. So now we must bring capitalism to Africa and further lower poverty rates and income disparity. Trade-aid xmas shopping anyone?

[Brian d marge]

now this is interesting , he Brother Nate , is usually well read .....So when he comes out and says the following

hes either nuts or there is a grain of truth to be followed up on

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/8PGwrbdArzI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stephen

[Scuba_Steve]

Correct. And completely unmolested.

Can you find credible evidence showing how the world's poor are historically worse off as a result of capitalism?

Perhaps you just need to talk to an old person for a touch of perspective...

Define "worse off" I have seen reports that state while we have a better standard of living i.e. healthcare, access to shit we don't need etc we have lower happiness overall; and that while poor people have more the "minimums" have increased further making them worse off i.e. back in the days you didn't really need anything but food & shelter, now you need food, shelter, computer, cell, interwebs, vehicle (which incl WoF Reg petrol maintenance etc) as without these the chances of getting any further than current are hugely diminished.

So again it depends on the concept of "better/worse off". Are we happier? No. Do the poor have it easier? No. Do we have more shit we don't need or access to it? Absolutely

[Ocean1]

On noes you rolled out a report. Shame that record poverty in the western world proves your theory to be nothing more than meaningless numbers of a page.

That you attribute that which humans have achieved to capitalism and competitive industry instead of the people and their ideas speaks volumes. Your white streak is showing.

You're full of shit, show me this record western world poverty. It doesn't exist, dole bludgers today live far better than any last generation low income earner, todays low income earners have standards of living far better than a very wealthy man a couple of generations ago, they live longer, travel more, have fewer dead kids, less disease, far better housing and eat far better.

And capitalism IS the people and their ideas. If you look at a map showing standards of living you'll see it corresponds perfectly with modern capitalist states. More: changes towards or away from that general western model historically result in perfect correlation with standard of living changes.

Them's the facts. All you've got is an opinion, one twisted by a desperate need to divorce effort and return so that you don't have to work too hard. One that's been shown to be wrong so many times it's become synonymous with wrong. Now go away and earn some of the standard of living you're getting paid for rather than shooting your mouth off here all day.

[Ocean1]

Define "worse off" I have seen reports that state while we have a better standard of living i.e. healthcare, access to shit we don't need etc we have lower happiness overall; and that while poor people have more the "minimums" have increased further making them worse off i.e. back in the days you didn't really need anything but food & shelter, now you need food, shelter, computer, cell, interwebs, vehicle (which incl WoF Reg petrol maintenance etc) as without these the chances of getting any further than current are hugely diminished.

So again it depends on the concept of "better/worse off". Are we happier? No. Do the poor have it easier? No. Do we have more shit we don't need or access to it? Absolutely

Define "need".

Almost everyone has better access to everything that contributes to a high standard of living. Whether they're happy about what they've got depends on their expectations. If they expect a new car every other year and the latest phone and don't earn enough to get them then they're not going to be happy. A lot of people aren't very good at managing their expectations so that they correspond with their work ethic. Tough shit.

And if you don't need shit then by all means don't buy shit, it's a simple enough problem to fix. Other people buying shit with their own money? Mind your own business.

[mashman]

You're full of shit, show me this record western world poverty. It doesn't exist, dole bludgers today live far better than any last generation low income earner, todays low income earners have standards of living far better than a very wealthy man a couple of generations ago, they live longer, travel more, have fewer dead kids, less disease, far better housing and eat far better.

And capitalism IS the people and their ideas. If you look at a map showing standards of living you'll see it corresponds perfectly with modern capitalist states. More: changes towards or away from that general western model historically result in perfect correlation with standard of living changes.

Them's the facts. All you've got is an opinion, one twisted by a desperate need to divorce effort and return so that you don't have to work too hard. One that's been shown to be wrong so many times it's become synonymous with wrong. Now go away and earn some of the standard of living you're getting paid for rather than shooting your mouth off here all day.

Japan: Child poverty rate hits record high; more elderly being looked after by people over 65: survey (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/07/16/national/social-issues/child-poverty-rate-hits-record-high-elderly-looked-people-65-survey/#.VIX9ejGUd1A)

US: Welcome to the Recovery – U.S. Child Homelessness Hits Record as Poverty in Mass. is Highest Since 1960 (http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/11/17/welcome-to-the-recovery-u-s-child-homelessness-hits-record-as-poverty-in-mass-is-highest-since-1960/)

Italy: Poverty in Italy hits record levels (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/30/uk-italy-society-idUKBRE9BT0K720131230)

UK: Poverty hits twice as many British households as 30 years ago (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/19/poverty-hits-twice-as-many-british-households)

NZ: Number of children in severe poverty reaches record high (https://www.labour.org.nz/media/number-children-severe-poverty-reaches-record-high)

Reckon many of the other western country's have similar issues? (mental note: must remember to add blind to scared old white muthafuckas).

Relying on statistics and calling them facts :killingme. You need better reference material. I find eyes and ears usually help... however a soul is usually required so the eyes and ears might not help ya so much.

[bogan]

NZ: Number of children in severe poverty reaches record high (https://www.labour.org.nz/media/number-children-severe-poverty-reaches-record-high)

Reckon many of the other western country's have similar issues? (mental note: must remember to add blind to scared old white muthafuckas).

Relying on statistics and calling them facts :killingme. You need better reference material. I find eyes and ears usually help... however a soul is usually required so the eyes and ears might not help ya so much.

Just looked at NZ one cos that is where my eyes and ears live.

Defining poverty by the median income (which has been rising for ages), noting that child poverty as a whole is down, and it is only the severe child poverty that is up (again defined not by absolutes, but by relative measure to the rest of society); clearly shows your arguments to be full of shit.

Stop playing the blame game and questioning why people can't keep up with others of today (it's cos faulty entitlement complexes), and instead be thankful that our standards of living leave those of yesteryear in the dust.

[mashman]

Just looked at NZ one cos that is where my eyes and ears live.

Defining poverty by the median income (which has been rising for ages), noting that child poverty as a whole is down, and it is only the severe child poverty that is up (again defined not by absolutes, but by relative measure to the rest of society); clearly shows your arguments to be full of shit.

Stop playing the blame game and questioning why people can't keep up with others of today (it's cos faulty entitlement complexes), and instead be thankful that our standards of living leave those of yesteryear in the dust.

:killingme ironing.

:facepalm:

You go ahead and tweak the figures all you like, it won't stop poverty from existing. You would have thought after all of these years that we would have sorted it out. It can't happen because no amount of money has ever made that change, hence the records being reported. Who says I'm not thankful?... especially given that I;m already on record as saying


I'd rather look to the future thanks as it seems that we never learn from the past, even when we do have more access to stuff that goes ping. I appreciate the present a whole lot more than accepting that my past will define my future. Therefore I am appreciative of everything that mankind has achieved, and I'd like to see that continue.

Oh it's all better than yesteryear because the reports say so :killingme hook, line and sinker.

Think a pic of the recent climate protest in Oz would go down well around about now.

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/RDOhPBN7VZx_uvZhhNu4eA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztweG9mZj01MDtweW 9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2014-11-13T074931Z_1448044381_GM1EABD17SO01_RTRMADP_3_AUST RALIA-PROTEST.JPG

[bogan]

You go ahead and tweak the figures all you like, it won't stop poverty from existing.

Tweaking the figures would be defining poverty by any standard other than an absolute one, in the context of historical progression. Yes it still exists, but yes it is lower than ever before; especially so in capitalist countries. Were capitalism a cause instead of a solution, it would be worse in capitalist countries, the opposite is the case; myth busted.

[mashman]

Tweaking the figures would be defining poverty by any standard other than an absolute one, in the context of historical progression. Yes it still exists, but yes it is lower than ever before; especially so in capitalist countries. Were capitalism a cause instead of a solution, it would be worse in capitalist countries, the opposite is the case; myth busted.

It is not lower, hence the record numbers, hence the myth isn't busted.

[bogan]

It is not lower, hence the record numbers, hence the myth isn't busted.

Only if you use the inequality biased measure of poverty; this end up being confusing as you have lower numbers of people living in poverty and lower inequality as per ocean's link, but also narrowly scoped poverteous inequalities on the rise. Don't let yourself be used by TPTB mashy, look at the bigger picture.

[mashman]

Only if you use the inequality biased measure of poverty; this end up being confusing as you have lower numbers of people living in poverty and lower inequality as per ocean's link, but also narrowly scoped poverteous inequalities on the rise. Don't let yourself be used by TPTB mashy, look at the bigger picture.

bwaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa. I'm not the one throwing up the govt approved report as evidence that life is better using the ACC method of divide through category and measure using the figures that match the outcome that I want. I see the bigger picture fine thanks, hence I advocate a Resource Based Economy.

[bogan]

I'm not the one throwing up the govt approved report as evidence that life is better using the ACC method of divide through category and measure using the figures that match the outcome that I want. I see the bigger picture fine thanks, hence I advocate a Resource Based Economy.

That is exactly what you just put up, divided down by categories of; relative inequity poverty metric -> NZ poverty -> child poverty -> severe child poverty. You had to go through that many divisions to match the outcome you want, because, as per ocean's link, the big picture is poverty is in dramatic decline. RBE is not a big picture view either, as resources are finite, there must be limitations in place lest we go through them too quick and leave none for our children.

[yokel]

if ya think it normal . .its normal

some people think they will only be in the shop for a few min and young rastus will be ok in the car . . ,

uneducated will always make poor choices

stephen


that's because you borrowed invented money.


Japan: Child poverty rate hits record high; more elderly being looked after by people over 65: survey (http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/07/16/national/social-issues/child-poverty-rate-hits-record-high-elderly-looked-people-65-survey/#.VIX9ejGUd1A)

US: Welcome to the Recovery – U.S. Child Homelessness Hits Record as Poverty in Mass. is Highest Since 1960 (http://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2014/11/17/welcome-to-the-recovery-u-s-child-homelessness-hits-record-as-poverty-in-mass-is-highest-since-1960/)

Italy: Poverty in Italy hits record levels (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/30/uk-italy-society-idUKBRE9BT0K720131230)

UK: Poverty hits twice as many British households as 30 years ago (http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/19/poverty-hits-twice-as-many-british-households)

NZ: Number of children in severe poverty reaches record high (https://www.labour.org.nz/media/number-children-severe-poverty-reaches-record-high)

Reckon many of the other western country's have similar issues? (mental note: must remember to add blind to scared old white muthafuckas).

Relying on statistics and calling them facts :killingme. You need better reference material. I find eyes and ears usually help... however a soul is usually required so the eyes and ears might not help ya so much.

The world bank agenda at work.
Just sit back and relax while the money made selling our state assets to get us out of the red morph in to more debit

[mashman]

That is exactly what you just put up, divided down by categories of; relative inequity poverty metric -> NZ poverty -> child poverty -> severe child poverty. You had to go through that many divisions to match the outcome you want, because, as per ocean's link, the big picture is poverty is in dramatic decline. RBE is not a big picture view either, as resources are finite, there must be limitations in place lest we go through them too quick and leave none for our children.

No, that's you deciding for me, yet again, what you believe I have done in order to get to a particular place. I've done nothing of the sort given that poverty exists. Funny, coz them country's setting them thar records seems to tell a different story... but I'm sure those with vested financial interest are more likely to produce facts as opposed to those who are suffering the problem.

Thanks again for confirming that you don't understand what an R.B.E. is, because it most definitely is a big picture. We're already rattling through resources in order to maximise profit and encourage even more resource wastage :facepalm:... I fail to see how a system that manages those resources based on need and the usefulness of the resource will be any worse than a system that manages those resources on the flawed basis that there is a demand that should be created in order to generate a need.

[mashman]

The world bank agenda at work.
Just sit back and relax while the money made selling our state assets to get us out of the red morph in to more debit

I blame, :shifty:, the voters.

[Scuba_Steve]

Define "need".


I thought I did... The stuff required [general rule] if you wish to enhance your position in life.

[bogan]

No, that's you deciding for me, yet again, what you believe I have done in order to get to a particular place. I've done nothing of the sort given that poverty exists. Funny, coz them country's setting them thar records seems to tell a different story... but I'm sure those with vested financial interest are more likely to produce facts as opposed to those who are suffering the problem.

Thanks again for confirming that you don't understand what an R.B.E. is, because it most definitely is a big picture. We're already rattling through resources in order to maximise profit and encourage even more resource wastage :facepalm:... I fail to see how a system that manages those resources based on need and the usefulness of the resource will be any worse than a system that manages those resources on the flawed basis that there is a demand that should be created in order to generate a need.

No that's just me pointing out your logical errors, again. Go off and hide behind semantics again, if you must.

Wrong, resources are currently priced by supply vs demand. An RBE does not manage resource based on need, but based on availability, hence why it would deplete them so quickly. Resources being allocated based on need simply puts more power into the hands of the government (who decides the need) at the expense of the people; who are entitled to it (or not); plenty of historical examples of why that is a bad thing.

[mashman]

No that's just me pointing out your logical errors, again. Go off and hide behind semantics again, if you must.

Wrong, resources are currently priced by supply vs demand. An RBE does not manage resource based on need, but based on availability, hence why it would deplete them so quickly. Resources being allocated based on need simply puts more power into the hands of the government (who decides the need) at the expense of the people; who are entitled to it (or not); plenty of historical examples of why that is a bad thing.

No, I never stated that which you claim I stated, so there's no logical error anywhere other than that which you have created on my behalf. No semantics, just a straight up fact.

An R.B.E. most definitely manages resources. Availability will be considered under the management of those resources. As for the rest, complete total and utter bullshit. History happened a long time ago and we have learned nothing from it... perhaps you should stop living in it. I'd rather we managed the resources than frittered them away aimlessly as we currently do.

[bogan]

No, I never stated that which you claim I stated, so there's no logical error anywhere other than that which you have created on my behalf. No semantics, just a straight up fact.

An R.B.E. most definitely manages resources. Availability will be considered under the management of those resources. As for the rest, complete total and utter bullshit. History happened a long time ago and we have learned nothing from it... perhaps you should stop living in it. I'd rather we managed the resources than frittered them away aimlessly as we currently do.

The relevance of that which you state is zero; I simply explain the logical realities of the situation given what you post. The logical error is that the realities of what you say, differ to the claims you make; thus instigating the hide behind some semantics tactic.

See here is an example, what you say is resource use will be managed; yet what you claim is that the rest is all bullshit. If resources are managed, then those who manage them get to say what everyone is entitled to, this is the only logical outcome here, and certainly not bullshit. And that has happened before, however much you might like to put your head in the sand on that point and continue to learn nothing from it.

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/RDOhPBN7VZx_uvZhhNu4eA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztweG9mZj01MDtweW 9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2014-11-13T074931Z_1448044381_GM1EABD17SO01_RTRMADP_3_AUST RALIA-PROTEST.JPG

[mashman]

The relevance of that which you state is zero; I simply explain the logical realities of the situation given what you post. The logical error is that the realities of what you say, differ to the claims you make; thus instigating the hide behind some semantics tactic.

See here is an example, what you say is resource use will be managed; yet what you claim is that the rest is all bullshit. If resources are managed, then those who manage them get to say what everyone is entitled to, this is the only logical outcome here, and certainly not bullshit. And that has happened before, however much you might like to put your head in the sand on that point and continue to learn nothing from it.

I'll say it again, I didn't state that which you insinuate I did. You have a history of doing that :blah:. I see no contradiction, so you must be making shit up. No semantics there, just your usual wishful pseudo-thinking.

What I referred to as bullshit was:

"resources are currently priced by supply vs demand". No they're not, that's a fantasy you've been sold.
"hence why it would deplete them so quickly". Bullshit and yet more bogdan fantasy.
"Resources being allocated based on need simply puts more power into the hands of the government (who decides the need) at the expense of the people". Yet more bullshit... because there would be no expense to the people given that production would revolve around their needs and not designed around the potential for return based on some fauz supply v demand fallacy.

You're calling people corrupt without even allowing them to prove you otherwise... not only that, but you're claiming that you've applied logic, much to my amusement, based on a set of criteria that hasn't yet been set. Pretty desperate avenue to run to when you've got nothing, but not unexpected.

[yokel]

I blame, :shifty:, the voters.

That's right blame the brainwashed voters, see how that works out for ya

[bogan]

I'll say it again, I didn't state that which you insinuate I did. You have a history of doing that :blah:. I see no contradiction, so you must be making shit up. No semantics there, just your usual wishful pseudo-thinking.

What I referred to as bullshit was:

"resources are currently priced by supply vs demand". No they're not, that's a fantasy you've been sold.
"hence why it would deplete them so quickly". Bullshit and yet more bogdan fantasy.
"Resources being allocated based on need simply puts more power into the hands of the government (who decides the need) at the expense of the people". Yet more bullshit... because there would be no expense to the people given that production would revolve around their needs and not designed around the potential for return based on some fauz supply v demand fallacy.

You're calling people corrupt without even allowing them to prove you otherwise... not only that, but you're claiming that you've applied logic, much to my amusement, based on a set of criteria that hasn't yet been set. Pretty desperate avenue to run to when you've got nothing, but not unexpected.

I just explain the realities of what you say; if you chose to read that as insinuations of what you say, then I'd think you are a little too self focused. I'll clear it up now, I think you are far too stupid to have drawn a realistic conclusion from the examples/articles/hypotheticals you post; so whether your conclusions agree with the logical realities of what you post is completely irrelevant. So we shall carry on with the example shall we?

Not solely by price and demand but it plays a big part, obviously; just look at the price of petrol.
Depletion due to use however much you like is not fantasy, merely logic; this is why there are so many water restrictions in summer, resource consents for the same; were there no limits on use, it would be overused.
The expense being the freedom of choice of the people, if the govt decides entitlement based on need, it restricts choice; we've seen it happen before in communist countries, so it is most certainly not bullshit.

Corrupt? I'm not saying the govt would necessarily be corrupt (interesting that you went there though, so it is obviously a risk), just that it would have a more pervasive power than govts currently have. The logic applied is bulletproof; evidenced by your counterpoints which consist of nothing substantial; if you had logical counterpoints you would use them instead of insults; it is only logical :sunny:

[mashman]

I just explain the realities of what you say; if you chose to read that as insinuations of what you say, then I'd think you are a little too self focused. I'll clear it up now, I think you are far too stupid to have drawn a realistic conclusion from the examples/articles/hypotheticals you post; so whether your conclusions agree with the logical realities of what you post is completely irrelevant. So we shall carry on with the example shall we?

Not solely by price and demand but it plays a big part, obviously; just look at the price of petrol.
Depletion due to use however much you like is not fantasy, merely logic; this is why there are so many water restrictions in summer, resource consents for the same; were there no limits on use, it would be overused.
The expense being the freedom of choice of the people, if the govt decides entitlement based on need, it restricts choice; we've seen it happen before in communist countries, so it is most certainly not bullshit.

Corrupt? I'm not saying the govt would necessarily be corrupt (interesting that you went there though, so it is obviously a risk), just that it would have a more pervasive power than govts currently have. The logic applied is bulletproof; evidenced by your counterpoints which consist of nothing substantial; if you had logical counterpoints you would use them instead of insults; it is only logical :sunny:

No you don't. You make up a story on the notion, you call it logic for some unknown reason, that you know what I mean... where the reality is, you clearly don't. Spin it anyway you like, tis always amusing, but that's a fact. Everything after that has zero relevance to any form of reality other than the one you've created for yourself. One of us knows this. Oh goody, another example... lulzometer, check, ironyometer, check, regression into a former reality I once chose to be true, check.

It does play a big part... a big part of wasting time and resources. A whole lot of knowledge down the drain. Rocket scientists or molecular biologists getting jobs that have nothing to do with their field of interest. Hugely wasteful.
Yes, the financial system does have overuse in areas and private agri are trying to fill that void because we're only ever going to need more with GROWTH (at any cost) GROWTH (at any cost) GROWTH (at any cost) being the manta. It wouldn't be overused in an R.B.E., because it wouldn't need to be and could be used for something else at a later date, growth even. Yes there will still be droughts etc... but it'll only ever get worse under the current financial system... and I'm pretty damned sure that history will back me up on that one.
Under an R.B.E. people will have more freedom of choice than they have ever had. It may not be the same choice, but it will be a different choice, one chosen by the people and something along the lines of: Would you mind if we only churn out 1 top of the line mobile phone every 5 years instead of 3 variants of the same device once every year... to be disposed of... for growth... forever... You will still have the choice. However they will be different choices, but ones that also have consideration for society and the environment and by default the future thrown in as a bonus.

Where did I mention corrupt dreamweaver? :killingme... what's the gain? having the resources? Fine. Take them. There'll be more along shortly. Not sure what you're gonna do with all of those resources, because you won't be able to sell them in an R.B.E.

Your logic failed when you said "I just explain the realities of what you say". The rest was bullshit.

[Brian d marge]

You're full of shit, show me this record western world poverty. It doesn't exist, dole bludgers today live far better than any last generation low income earner, todays low income earners have standards of living far better than a very wealthy man a couple of generations ago, they live longer, travel more, have fewer dead kids, less disease, far better housing and eat far better.

And capitalism IS the people and their ideas. If you look at a map showing standards of living you'll see it corresponds perfectly with modern capitalist states. More: changes towards or away from that general western model historically result in perfect correlation with standard of living changes.

Them's the facts. All you've got is an opinion, one twisted by a desperate need to divorce effort and return so that you don't have to work too hard. One that's been shown to be wrong so many times it's become synonymous with wrong. Now go away and earn some of the standard of living you're getting paid for rather than shooting your mouth off here all day.
ill start the ball rolling
as i dont have time to answer fully

both parents having to work to buy a shitty box of a house

which should be . , according to your theory pretty much close to zero cost . . what with advances in technology and all that .

[bogan]

No you don't. You make up a story on the notion, you call it logic for some unknown reason, that you know what I mean... where the reality is, you clearly don't. Spin it anyway you like, tis always amusing, but that's a fact. Everything after that has zero relevance to any form of reality other than the one you've created for yourself. One of us knows this. Oh goody, another example... lulzometer, check, ironyometer, check, regression into a former reality I once chose to be true, check.

It does play a big part... a big part of wasting time and resources. A whole lot of knowledge down the drain. Rocket scientists or molecular biologists getting jobs that have nothing to do with their field of interest. Hugely wasteful.
Yes, the financial system does have overuse in areas and private agri are trying to fill that void because we're only ever going to need more with GROWTH (at any cost) GROWTH (at any cost) GROWTH (at any cost) being the manta. It wouldn't be overused in an R.B.E., because it wouldn't need to be and could be used for something else at a later date, growth even. Yes there will still be droughts etc... but it'll only ever get worse under the current financial system... and I'm pretty damned sure that history will back me up on that one.
Under an R.B.E. people will have more freedom of choice than they have ever had. It may not be the same choice, but it will be a different choice, one chosen by the people and something along the lines of: Would you mind if we only churn out 1 top of the line mobile phone every 5 years instead of 3 variants of the same device once every year... to be disposed of... for growth... forever... You will still have the choice. However they will be different choices, but ones that also have consideration for society and the environment and by default the future thrown in as a bonus.

Where did I mention corrupt dreamweaver? :killingme... what's the gain? having the resources? Fine. Take them. There'll be more along shortly. Not sure what you're gonna do with all of those resources, because you won't be able to sell them in an R.B.E.

Your logic failed when you said "I just explain the realities of what you say". The rest was bullshit.

So show me.

Still supply and demand, were there more demand for those rocket scientists, they would get jobs as such. (also worth noting you had to change examples cos petrol clearly is supply and demand)
It would need to be used still, because you'd still need food in an RBE; and with no checks on how much food people can get, the production would need to keep up, and end up running out of resources like water. Only a few options I can think of to combat that, population control, food rationing, or starvation; way to sell the RBE idea mashy...
So people have to make do with less new stuff, less choice, just like I said; and such choice is also specified by TPTB, not the consumer, just like I said as well. If only there was some way in the current system they make do with less choice to get the same benefits; oh wait, there is exactly that; seems people like choice though, go figure.

In the previous post, you brought up corruptness of govt. Resources can be used, like petrol (of which NZ is a net importer, so there will not be more along as required), like food (fancy stuff will push up the water usage, so there won't be more along as required there either since that has run out), etc, etc...

My logic shows what it shows, just as your lack of logic shows how unworkable an RBE is. The realities have been explained, and will continue to be. No doubt you will continue to put your head in the sand and ignore them though...

[Brian d marge]

Just looked at NZ one cos that is where my eyes and ears live.

Defining poverty by the median income (which has been rising for ages), noting that child poverty as a whole is down, and it is only the severe child poverty that is up (again defined not by absolutes, but by relative measure to the rest of society); clearly shows your arguments to be full of shit.

Stop playing the blame game and questioning why people can't keep up with others of today (it's cos faulty entitlement complexes), and instead be thankful that our standards of living leave those of yesteryear in the dust.
some people cant keep up due their circumstances

most are one slip away from ruin

economic darwinisim was a term dreamed up to push an agenda

the biggest spongers on the wellfare system as we have noted before are
. .the oldies

oh but they worked hard and saved for the retirement . . . . its their entitlement . . . . .

[mashman]

So show me.

Still supply and demand, were there more demand for those rocket scientists, they would get jobs as such. (also worth noting you had to change examples cos petrol clearly is supply and demand)
It would need to be used still, because you'd still need food in an RBE; and with no checks on how much food people can get, the production would need to keep up, and end up running out of resources like water. Only a few options I can think of to combat that, population control, food rationing, or starvation; way to sell the RBE idea mashy...
So people have to make do with less new stuff, less choice, just like I said; and such choice is also specified by TPTB, not the consumer, just like I said as well. If only there was some way in the current system they make do with less choice to get the same benefits; oh wait, there is exactly that; seems people like choice though, go figure.

In the previous post, you brought up corruptness of govt. Resources can be used, like petrol (of which NZ is a net importer, so there will not be more along as required), like food (fancy stuff will push up the water usage, so there won't be more along as required there either since that has run out), etc, etc...

My logic shows what it shows, just as your lack of logic shows how unworkable an RBE is. The realities have been explained, and will continue to be. No doubt you will continue to put your head in the sand and ignore them though...

Show you what exactly?

There's plenty of demand for rocket scientists, there merely isn't enough money to pay for them. Hence, people went to uni to become rocket scientists. Demand. No supply. Always another side of the equation bogdan... and I'd rather have the advances rocket scientists can make than not... and certainly not in the banking sector.

In an R.B.E. you merely ask the person. They either respond well, or don't, it will be their choice... and I'm sure they'll do exactly as you say and hoard because they can <_<.

You're not paying attention.


It may not be the same choice, but it will be a different choice, one chosen by the people and people = consumer, unless in some bizarre reporting world they're further broken into classifications to make is seem as though consumers and people aren't the same entity. so instead of producing shit in the hope of selling it, we'll be producing shit to meet demand of the people i.e. consumer. Keep up oh him of large intelligence and mental agility.

Such 2 dimensional thinking is way to hilarious on an empty stomach. We already waste fuckloads of food, at least those who are hungry can walk into the supermarket and get it instead of dumpster diving. C'mon, activate the other 99.9% of your brain... you might like it.

You haven't debunked an R.B.E. as unworkable. Not even close. Not even a dent in it. Quite obviously because you don't understand it. Fair enough, it's not everyone's cup of chai... but it's where we're headed whether you like it or not. :wari:

[mashman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZKuzwPOefs

[Ocean1]

Reckon many of the other western country's have similar issues? (mental note: must remember to add blind to scared old white muthafuckas).

Relying on statistics and calling them facts :killingme. You need better reference material. I find eyes and ears usually help... however a soul is usually required so the eyes and ears might not help ya so much.

What issues?

Having to redefine poverty in order to actually be able to count the fuckers on the fingers of more than one hand?

Absolutely. http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals/poverty.shtml

In fact absolute poverty is vanishing at an alarming rate. http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21578643-world-has-astonishing-chance-take-billion-people-out-extreme-poverty-2030-not

You have to look in some seriously dodgy places to find "opinions" suggesting otherwise.

[Ocean1]

ill start the ball rolling
as i dont have time to answer fully

both parents having to work to buy a shitty box of a house

which should be . , according to your theory pretty much close to zero cost . . what with advances in technology and all that .

We've already done that, haven't we? Your own figures revealed that houses now cost less per square metre than they did in your "golden years"', didn't they?

Continuing to claim that populist bullshit is something else when you've already proved otherwise yourself is taking the whole Stupid World ethos well above and beyond the call of stupidity.

[bogan]

Show you what exactly?

There's plenty of demand for rocket scientists, there merely isn't enough money to pay for them. Hence, people went to uni to become rocket scientists. Demand. No supply. Always another side of the equation bogdan... and I'd rather have the advances rocket scientists can make than not... and certainly not in the banking sector.

In an R.B.E. you merely ask the person. They either respond well, or don't, it will be their choice... and I'm sure they'll do exactly as you say and hoard because they can <_<.

You're not paying attention.

and people = consumer, unless in some bizarre reporting world they're further broken into classifications to make is seem as though consumers and people aren't the same entity. so instead of producing shit in the hope of selling it, we'll be producing shit to meet demand of the people i.e. consumer. Keep up oh him of large intelligence and mental agility.

Such 2 dimensional thinking is way to hilarious on an empty stomach. We already waste fuckloads of food, at least those who are hungry can walk into the supermarket and get it instead of dumpster diving. C'mon, activate the other 99.9% of your brain... you might like it.

You haven't debunked an R.B.E. as unworkable. Not even close. Not even a dent in it. Quite obviously because you don't understand it. Fair enough, it's not everyone's cup of chai... but it's where we're headed whether you like it or not. :wari:

Show my my logic is wrong, don't just say it is.

If there is not money to pay for them, then there is not the demand. You want it to happen, put your money towards it; ie, put your supplies to the demand you see fit.
A load of whiffle, so I'll assume you have no counterpoint to my resource depletion logic.
The end choice of product will be chosen by the people, but what they can choose from is chosen by TPTB, just like it was historically. Well, until it collapsed enough that TPTB only gave people one thing to choose from.

Your lack of logic does show how unworkable your idea of an RBE is. An RBE can work, but only by emerging from within a capitalist system, overturning capitalism in favor of a socialist RBE will not work; it offers little benefit over capitalism, but comes with far more ways to be abused. That is why the dude who tried to trademark the term RBE is aiming to have one emerge from within capitalism, instead of overturning it. So perhaps I know enough about RBE's that you put your head into the sand in fear.

[bogan]

We've already done that, haven't we? Your own figures revealed that houses now cost less per square metre than they did in your "golden years"', didn't they?

Continuing to claim that populist bullshit is something else when you've already proved otherwise yourself is taking the whole Stupid World ethos well above and beyond the call of stupidity.

Not to mention each square meter of that new house is now warmer and more efficient too.

[Ocean1]

I thought I did... The stuff required [general rule] if you wish to enhance your position in life.

Yes. My point was that in fact "necessities" are those things that you require in order to live. Nothing else.

Everyone has a different take on what that represents, but that's the first time I've heard that anything that "enhancing one's position in life" is an absolute must-have.

[SPman]

Yes. My point was that in fact "necessities" are those things that you require in order to live. Nothing else.

Everyone has a different take on what that represents, but that's the first time I've heard that anything that "enhancing one's position in life" is an absolute must-have.Of course it is - it seems that's what's driving most of the worlds population...or... the advertising agencies, anyway.

[Akzle]

Not to mention each square meter of that new house is now warmer and more efficient too.

:rofl:
no it isn't.

[Ocean1]

some people cant keep up due their circumstances

A circumstantial lack of work ethic, yes.



the biggest spongers on the wellfare system as we have noted before are
. .the oldies

oh but they worked hard and saved for the retirement . . . . its their entitlement . . . . .

And you'd rather the money THEY saved for retirement was given to who?

[Akzle]

A circumstantial lack of work ethic, yes.



And you'd rather the money THEY saved for retirement was given to who?

hahaha. They.

[bogan]

:rofl:
no it isn't.

Maybe not in the mud shack you built :rolleyes:

[mashman]

What issues?

Having to redefine poverty in order to actually be able to count the fuckers on the fingers of more than one hand?

Absolutely. http://www.un.org/millenniumgoals/poverty.shtml

In fact absolute poverty is vanishing at an alarming rate. http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21578643-world-has-astonishing-chance-take-billion-people-out-extreme-poverty-2030-not

You have to look in some seriously dodgy places to find "opinions" suggesting otherwise.

Count them :facepalm:

I hope that it is falling.

[Ocean1]

Count them :facepalm:

I hope that it is falling.

A bunch of people already have.

Absolute poverty is falling, dramatically, beyond any shadow of doubt, as the most cursory research shows.

Which is reason enough, all by itself to arsehole any changes to the current system. Particularly those that haven't ever produced anything remotely like the same success. Or any success at all.

[mashman]

Show my my logic is wrong, don't just say it is.

If there is not money to pay for them, then there is not the demand. You want it to happen, put your money towards it; ie, put your supplies to the demand you see fit.
A load of whiffle, so I'll assume you have no counterpoint to my resource depletion logic.
The end choice of product will be chosen by the people, but what they can choose from is chosen by TPTB, just like it was historically. Well, until it collapsed enough that TPTB only gave people one thing to choose from.

Your lack of logic does show how unworkable your idea of an RBE is. An RBE can work, but only by emerging from within a capitalist system, overturning capitalism in favor of a socialist RBE will not work; it offers little benefit over capitalism, but comes with far more ways to be abused. That is why the dude who tried to trademark the term RBE is aiming to have one emerge from within capitalism, instead of overturning it. So perhaps I know enough about RBE's that you put your head into the sand in fear.

I did. More than once.

So no demand for food? No demand for toys? No demand for sport? No demand for insert banana of choice? Do you think that everyone is just going to stop working and "lose" everything they currently have? T'would kind of defeat the purpose, no?
I gave you a counterpoint to resource depletion, you didn't like it.
Why would TPTB decide what the people want? They'll be asking what is wanted and will have been voted in by the people.

Overturning at the vote of the people. You seem to miss that bit, or take it for granted that it'll never go that far. I see an R.B.E. as being agreed by the people i.e. voted on, and implemented at a date agreed, again by vote, upon by the people. It's a very simple process. That I see an R.B.E. evolving differently does not mean that there is no logic to the way I see it happening... because absolutely every system and ingredient for it to happen within 6 months exists today. :rofl:@fear.

[blue rider]

Yes. My point was that in fact "necessities" are those things that you require in order to live. Nothing else.

Everyone has a different take on what that represents, but that's the first time I've heard that anything that "enhancing one's position in life" is an absolute must-have.

in order to live i need

water
air
shelter
food

i do not need

tv
radio
cars
frocks
shoes
man
cheap food
poisoned air
poisoned water
no shelter
no food

however
i can't forage for food anymore as we are getting rid of all and any free food sources, or as in the case of europe thanks to chernobyl we have poisoned our free food sources i.e mushrooms, berries and edible seeds and planst. In nz well once upon a time I heard that poor people went hunting or trapped rabbits or went fishing....pretty much obsolete now for many a people (but i guess it is their choice where they live, it has nothing to do with anything).

i can't run around nekkid, lest i be accused of lewd behavior and then maybe I end up either in prison or with the mentally disabled, but at least i would get food and shelter.

i can't just live under a bridge, cause heck it ain't done and there are now fences under bridges that would prevent peeps from sleeping rough there. I also can't put up a tent in a park or else the good peeps of the community are gonna call the cops on me as they did with the geezer in Ashburton who ended up killing someone at a Winz office, but at least now he has food and shelter in prison.


But yes, it sure enhances life to have shelter, food, and a frock or two. Good air also helps, but hey. One is not choosy.

[mashman]

A bunch of people already have.

Absolute poverty is falling, dramatically, beyond any shadow of doubt, as the most cursory research shows.

Which is reason enough, all by itself to arsehole any changes to the current system. Particularly those that haven't ever produced anything remotely like the same success. Or any success at all.

And graded them. And decided what their needs should be.

It's a ledger entry. But great that we can measure that absolute poverty is falling.

Fuck off. An R.B.E. will render poverty a thing of the past within hours. Blind etc...

[bogan]

I did. More than once.

So no demand for food? No demand for toys? No demand for sport? No demand for insert banana of choice? Do you think that everyone is just going to stop working and "lose" everything they currently have? T'would kind of defeat the purpose, no?
I gave you a counterpoint to resource depletion, you didn't like it.
Why would TPTB decide what the people want? They'll be asking what is wanted and will have been voted in by the people.

Overturning at the vote of the people. You seem to miss that bit, or take it for granted that it'll never go that far. I see an R.B.E. as being agreed by the people i.e. voted on, and implemented at a date agreed, again by vote, upon by the people. It's a very simple process. That I see an R.B.E. evolving differently does not mean that there is no logic to the way I see it happening... because absolutely every system and ingredient for it to happen within 6 months exists today. :rofl:@fear.

No, you haven't.

You've missed the point I think, demand in the supply/demand context is measured by what people are willing to pay. They are willing to pay for food (more for quality stuff, less for standard), they are less willing to pay for rocket scientists.
It was not logical, so no it didn't stick.
Because they have to balance what the people want, with what the people can produce. That is why in all historical instances of such systems, consumer choices have declined.

Ah back to the circular logic again, it's a good idea cos if the people choose it, it must be good right? Well despite everything it needs existing, you get less than a fraction of 1% approval; the people have spoken mashy, they do not choose it, it is not a good idea. It has always been the way of the ignorant to fear knowledge, so I'm not surprised.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yes. My point was that in fact "necessities" are those things that you require in order to live. Nothing else.

Everyone has a different take on what that represents, but that's the first time I've heard that anything that "enhancing one's position in life" is an absolute must-have.

It's a relative. There are only a few things we Need and none of them need to be brought, but we were talking about "quality of life" and to improve that quality you require/need a lot more now than in the past so the poor are more likely to stay poor

[Ocean1]

Of course it is - it seems that's what's driving most of the worlds population...or... the advertising agencies, anyway.

A couple of generations ago they'd have been selling god.

Same advice applies: Believe what you see.

[jonbuoy]

I guess as everyone here has spare time and the means to access the internet on a regular basis we can safely assume no one here is "poor/destitute"?

[Brian d marge]

naked capitalisim at work . .

and when the fellas whom ron the show are calling it a duck . .things must be bad hahahahahaha

http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/terence-p-jeffrey/ponzi-treasury-issues-1t-new-debt-8-weeks-pay-old-debt

#ohhowiloled

[Brian d marge]

We've already done that, haven't we? Your own figures revealed that houses now cost less per square metre than they did in your "golden years"', didn't they?

Continuing to claim that populist bullshit is something else when you've already proved otherwise yourself is taking the whole Stupid World ethos well above and beyond the call of stupidity.
you would make an excellent artful dodger

from memory i proved to you that for the same size house you were better off in the golden days AND that is cheaper to build a bigger house than the 100m2

now would you like another example to highlight your simplistic view points a have water retension difficulties

or are you going to use ur super powers again

stephen

[Brian d marge]

A circumstantial lack of work ethic, yes.



And you'd rather the money THEY saved for retirement was given to who?
yes paying of the student loan and then finding deposit for a house then meeting all of those newlyprivatised utillity bills

certainly knocks the work ethic for a six dont it

but then back in your day it was worse . . as we young ones never had to rent the space under the bed

[Brian d marge]

in order to live i need

water
air
shelter
food
sex

i do not need

tv
radio
cars
frocks
shoes
man
cheap food
poisoned air
poisoned water
no shelter
no food



changed that for u

[Ocean1]

from memory i proved to you that for the same size house you were better off in the golden days AND that is cheaper to build a bigger house than the 100m2

now would you like another example to highlight your simplistic view points a have water retension difficulties

or are you going to use ur super powers again

stephen

You don't need my super powers, you need a better memory:


So the cost per meter to build a house has dropped by half AND is cheaper , slightly per sq m.

From here: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2006/06-03/10.htm

[Scuba_Steve]

I guess as everyone here has spare time and the means to access the internet on a regular basis we can safely assume no one here is "poor/destitute"?

Coupled with fact that [assumedly] everyone here owns bikes I think you can absolutely safely assume everyone here is not "poor/destitute" especially if those bikes are licensed.

[Brian d marge]

You don't need my super powers, you need a better memory:



From here: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/research-policy/wp/2006/06-03/10.htm
Possibly do need a better memory as Im at lunch on the phone

but my reading skills aint to bad , and the link you posted is absolutely fine , no problems there

except the wording of the first paragraph
Snip;

These ratios are driven by several factors. House prices and interest rates affect the nominal mortgage payments, and then household income

Household income

and house prices

Hmmm now I wonder who, what and how these have changed ....

Nice try , at least you posted a link

Stephen

[Akzle]

Maybe not in the mud shack you built :rolleyes:

mudshacks are more efficient than timber framed, veneer clad, fibre board lined, insulated houses.
Better for teh planet, too. Just not jews.

[Brian d marge]

mudshacks are more efficient than timber framed, veneer clad, fibre board lined, insulated houses.
Better for teh planet, too. Just not jews.
strangely thats true

Wattle and Daub , adobe indian houses still around after 800 or more years

But try and get Chur Chur city council to give planning permission

Im just popping off to the bookies to put a fiver each way on Shergar ...i feel there is more chance

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

privatizing water , who would have thunk it .....

that’s a new one on me !

should try that with other utilities ...

fkin Imf

Stephen

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/wv4Nyj2uZR0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Brian d marge]

More from Brother Nates, Brother

Ukraine ...not sure if it goes here or in the Ukraine thread !!
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/MPZPUom3d_M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stephen

[jonbuoy]

Coupled with fact that [assumedly] everyone here owns bikes I think you can absolutely safely assume everyone here is not "poor/destitute" especially if those bikes are licensed.

So the system works for all of us.

[Scuba_Steve]

So the system works for all of us.

No, all of us (if we're talking "us" as in KB) might be managing under the system but it's definitely not working for all of us, that would be delusional.

[blue rider]

i can see all our resident Libertarian Fuckwits ejaculating with joy over this article.

After all if the man would have just had the sense to not have diabetes, and be unemployed n shit and shit n shit n shit n shit n shit he would still be alive.

Cause if yer government kills out of spite its called Welfare reform and providing incentives to find a job, n shit n shit n shit n shit n shit n shit

Fuckwits the lot

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/09/david-clapson-benefit-sanctions-death-government-policie


The coroner said that when David Clapson died he had no food in his stomach. Clapson’s benefits had been stopped as a result of missing one meeting at the jobcentre. He was diabetic, and without the £71.70 a week from his jobseeker’s allowance he couldn’t afford to eat or put credit on his electricity card to keep the fridge where he kept his insulin working. Three weeks later Clapson died from diabetic ketoacidosis, caused by a severe lack of insulin. A pile of CVs was found next to his body.

I’ll resist calling Clapson’s death a tragedy. Tragedy suggests a one-off incident, a rarity that couldn’t be prevented. What was done to Clapson – and it was done, not something that simply happened – is a particularly horrific example of what has, almost silently, turned into a widespread crisis. More than a million people in this country have had their benefits stopped over the past year. Sanctions against chronically ill and disabled people have risen by 580% in a year. This is a system out of control.

cause he lived in England which is again 'one' of the richest nations on the planet he could not have been possibly so poor that he had no food, no electricity, no fuck all.

Fuck ya, you vile people that are killing those like us, that are killing our families, our comunities, our neighbourhoods. Fuck the class of Harvard, Yale, Oxford, fuck the Bankers, the Suits, and the yes men that are so afraid to loose what little they have left that they would just roll over for a tummy rub, while some poor schmuck is dying in the ditch right in front of them.

Fuck ya.

[bogan]

i can see all our resident Libertarian Fuckwits ejaculating with joy over this article.

After all if the man would have just had the sense to not have diabetes, and be unemployed n shit and shit n shit n shit n shit n shit he would still be alive.

Cause if yer government kills out of spite its called Welfare reform and providing incentives to find a job, n shit n shit n shit n shit n shit n shit

Fuckwits the lot

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/09/david-clapson-benefit-sanctions-death-government-policie



cause he lived in England which is again 'one' of the richest nations on the planet he could not have been possibly so poor that he had no food, no electricity, no fuck all.

Fuck ya, you vile people that are killing those like us, that are killing our families, our comunities, our neighbourhoods. Fuck the class of Harvard, Yale, Oxford, fuck the Bankers, the Suits, and the yes men that are so afraid to loose what little they have left that they would just roll over for a tummy rub, while some poor schmuck is dying in the ditch right in front of them.

Fuck ya.

Libertarians? Isn't that the 'so called' 99% occupation movement? (still a thing?) Yeh, fuck those guys who had absolutely nothing to do with this tragedy for making it happen :scratch:

Being highly educated or being wealthy does not mean one has a lack of compassion/sympathy/empathy; and fuck you for insinuating it does. A rich person does far more to help out those in need than fucking plebby whingers.

[bogan]

Here's one for the negatrons.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/btiDHCuWyBA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Even a banker in there apparently :shit:

[jonbuoy]

No, all of us (if we're talking "us" as in KB) might be managing under the system but it's definitely not working for all of us, that would be delusional.

How many people do you know personally that are starving?

[jonbuoy]

i can see all our resident Libertarian Fuckwits ejaculating with joy over this article.

After all if the man would have just had the sense to not have diabetes, and be unemployed n shit and shit n shit n shit n shit n shit he would still be alive.

Cause if yer government kills out of spite its called Welfare reform and providing incentives to find a job, n shit n shit n shit n shit n shit n shit

Fuckwits the lot

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/09/david-clapson-benefit-sanctions-death-government-policie



cause he lived in England which is again 'one' of the richest nations on the planet he could not have been possibly so poor that he had no food, no electricity, no fuck all.

Fuck ya, you vile people that are killing those like us, that are killing our families, our comunities, our neighbourhoods. Fuck the class of Harvard, Yale, Oxford, fuck the Bankers, the Suits, and the yes men that are so afraid to loose what little they have left that they would just roll over for a tummy rub, while some poor schmuck is dying in the ditch right in front of them.

Fuck ya.

Did you read the full article including his sisters comments about him not wanting to ask for help?

[oldrider]

More from Brother Nates, Brother

Ukraine ...not sure if it goes here or in the Ukraine thread !!


Stephen

You should post this in the Ukraine thread as well - excellent informative stuff.

[carbonhed]

i can see all our resident Libertarian Fuckwits ejaculating with joy over this article.

After all if the man would have just had the sense to not have diabetes, and be unemployed n shit and shit n shit n shit n shit n shit he would still be alive.

Cause if yer government kills out of spite its called Welfare reform and providing incentives to find a job, n shit n shit n shit n shit n shit n shit

Fuckwits the lot

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/09/david-clapson-benefit-sanctions-death-government-policie



cause he lived in England which is again 'one' of the richest nations on the planet he could not have been possibly so poor that he had no food, no electricity, no fuck all.

Fuck ya, you vile people that are killing those like us, that are killing our families, our comunities, our neighbourhoods. Fuck the class of Harvard, Yale, Oxford, fuck the Bankers, the Suits, and the yes men that are so afraid to loose what little they have left that they would just roll over for a tummy rub, while some poor schmuck is dying in the ditch right in front of them.

Fuck ya.

Nice little peek into the mind of the caring and sharing ones. I've always suspected the people manning the watchtowers of the next gulags will be these bastards.

You can rest assured your uniform will be ready for you. Mmmm... those jackboots are to die for.

"A DWP source said Clapson was sanctioned after failing to attend two work programme appointments. “He still continued to sign on at the Jobcentre, however, so there was no indication that he was experiencing problems with his condition or his medication. He was phoned twice, written to twice and told which form to fill in to claim hardship payments, but he never applied for one, and didn’t appeal his sanction."

[Akzle]

How many people do you know personally that are starving?

well, im pretty fuken hungry...

[jonbuoy]

Nice little peek into the mind of the caring and sharing ones. I've always suspected the people manning the watchtowers of the next gulags will be these bastards.

You can rest assured your uniform will be ready for you. Mmmm... those jackboots are to die for.

"A DWP source said Clapson was sanctioned after failing to attend two work programme appointments. “He still continued to sign on at the Jobcentre, however, so there was no indication that he was experiencing problems with his condition or his medication. He was phoned twice, written to twice and told which form to fill in to claim hardship payments, but he never applied for one, and didn’t appeal his sanction."

You can't help someone that doesn't want to help themselves. There are so many benefits available in the UK the government can't babysit everyone. Diabetes isn't an excuse my Dads had it for 30 years and never missed a days work because of it.

[mashman]

i can see all our resident Libertarian Fuckwits ejaculating with joy over this article.

Good call...

[Scuba_Steve]

How many people do you know personally that are starving?

Not many if any, mainly cause if I knew them I'd probably fucking feed them... Had met Blanket Man a couple times tho

[mashman]

UN says 2014 devastating year for children (https://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/25720257/un-says-2014-devastating-year-for-children/)... at least they're not in poverty.

[Ocean1]

Fuck ya, you vile people that are killing those like us, that are killing our families, our comunities, our neighbourhoods. Fuck the class of Harvard, Yale, Oxford, fuck the Bankers, the Suits, and the yes men that are so afraid to loose what little they have left that they would just roll over for a tummy rub, while some poor schmuck is dying in the ditch right in front of them.

Fuck ya.

Aye. And fuck the bludgers who've bled the state welfare system to the point that it's too anaemic to do it's job.

Which is exactly where NZ is headed in if we don't get middle NZ's fingers out of the till.

[Ocean1]

Not many if any, mainly cause if I knew them I'd probably fucking feed them... Had met Blanket Man a couple times tho

Did you give him a hamburger?

And did he call you a cunt and tell you to fuck off?

[Ocean1]

Coupled with fact that [assumedly] everyone here owns bikes I think you can absolutely safely assume everyone here is not "poor/destitute" especially if those bikes are licensed.

Some of my bikes aren't registered.

Is there a welfare subsidy for that?

Goda be, don't there? There's one for every fucking thing else.

[blue rider]

came accross this one.

a good one it is.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUBWSyvk14Q&list=PL8790CD2550C1E444&index=21&spfreload=1

[Scuba_Steve]

Did you give him a hamburger?

And did he call you a cunt and tell you to fuck off?

Mighta chucked him a cheeseburger once, can't remember. But no never had him call me a cunt or tell me to "fuck off"


Some of my bikes aren't registered.

Is there a welfare subsidy for that?

Goda be, don't there? There's one for every fucking thing else.

Na but you can get a brand new chrysler 300c along with the yearly licences & petrol paid through WINZ

[bogan]

Now here is a guy who does thoroughly deserve a giant fuck you, on behalf of children everywhere.

http://www.upworthy.com/16-years-ago-a-doctor-published-a-study-it-was-completely-made-up-and-it-made-us-all-sicker?g=2&c=ufb3

[jonbuoy]

Not many if any, mainly cause if I knew them I'd probably fucking feed them... Had met Blanket Man a couple times tho

Only place I have seen real poverty first hand is Africa. I suspect India is just as shocking.

[blue rider]

Only place I have seen real poverty first hand is Africa. I suspect India is just as shocking.

Auron, south of france.


after the hubby left , young mother with two children ages 4 and 2 in a one bedroom apartment in a tiny village in the french mountains. no car, no drivers lisence, essentially trapped and unable to move. No proper educaton or job training. Married young, had her children as one does. Boom, the husband left. The hubby never paid alimony, had a new child and life with a new wife some 1000 kms away.

I paid on a few occasion food, electricity and the likes. Eventually TV 3 (regional TV in France) did a show on seasonal workers in the Mountains and they ended up showing Marie coming from work to her little one bedroom with her two children being looked after by her Mum. Two month later the City allocated her a three bedroom place.

it was india in france.


myself, after deciding not to live at home for reasons of safety. sleeping in abandoned buildings with other street kids, not knowing of any "social welfare services" that would be available because it takes time to learn the ropes. I know hunger. I have been hungry, I have been cold, and at times i did not smell nice.
I will also not forget.
I just was lucky insofar that i was so fucking naive i did not go with the men that offered help in exchange for 'being nice", i thought old geezers were disgusting at seventeen. I also did not smoke and drink, which kept me somewhat safe. And i eventually found a job that came with accommodation.

But regardless of what one wants to believe, three days on the road without access to toilets for the private business and washing facilities and one becomes the road. three days without food and one becomes angry. it goes very quick and it does exist. One just has to take of blinders to see it.

To compare us here in NZ to india is a strawman, poverty in NZ is different then poverty in India, however the effects are the same. One can not participate in society, can not find a job without an address, can not have an address without a job. Can't work when so hungry that one feels dizzy, but can't get food when out of work. Can't wash your clothes without electricity but can't hold a job when dirty.

Catch 22.

We have poor people in this country. And we are having more and more of them. Regardless if you see them or not.

[jonbuoy]

Auron, south of france.


after the hubby left , young mother with two children ages 4 and 2 in a one bedroom apartment in a tiny village in the french mountains. no car, no drivers lisence, essentially trapped and unable to move. No proper educaton or job training. Married young, had her children as one does. Boom, the husband left. The hubby never paid alimony, had a new child and life with a new wife some 1000 kms away.

I paid on a few occasion food, electricity and the likes. Eventually TV 3 (regional TV in France) did a show on seasonal workers in the Mountains and they ended up showing Marie coming from work to her little one bedroom with her two children being looked after by her Mum. Two month later the City allocated her a three bedroom place.

it was india in france.


myself, after deciding not to live at home for reasons of safety. sleeping in abandoned buildings with other street kids, not knowing of any "social welfare services" that would be available because it takes time to learn the ropes. I know hunger. I have been hungry, I have been cold, and at times i did not smell nice.
I will also not forget.
I just was lucky insofar that i was so fucking naive i did not go with the men that offered help in exchange for 'being nice", i thought old geezers were disgusting at seventeen. I also did not smoke and drink, which kept me somewhat safe. And i eventually found a job that came with accommodation.

But regardless of what one wants to believe, three days on the road without access to toilets for the private business and washing facilities and one becomes the road. three days without food and one becomes angry. it goes very quick and it does exist. One just has to take of blinders to see it.

To compare us here in NZ to india is a strawman, poverty in NZ is different then poverty in India, however the effects are the same. One can not participate in society, can not find a job without an address, can not have an address without a job. Can't work when so hungry that one feels dizzy, but can't get food when out of work. Can't wash your clothes without electricity but can't hold a job when dirty.

Catch 22.

We have poor people in this country. And we are having more and more of them. Regardless if you see them or not.

So she wasn't a French Citizen? The difference between India/Africa and NZ is there is no reason for anyone to starve. There is a benefit system in place - the government can't keep track of every persons well being - it's impossible. It's not the governments fault that some people fall between the cracks or don't know what's available in the way of benefits and help.

Do you blame bankers and governments for what happened to you? Without being overly intrusive on people's daily lives how can they know your underage and on the streets?

[mashman]

Dude must be a KB member.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHWX4pG0FNY

[mashman]

So she wasn't a French Citizen? The difference between India/Africa and NZ is there is no reason for anyone to starve. There is a benefit system in place - the government can't keep track of every persons well being - it's impossible. It's not the governments fault that some people fall between the cracks or don't know what's available in the way of benefits and help.

Do you blame bankers and governments for what happened to you? Without being overly intrusive on people's daily lives how can they know your underage and on the streets?

:facepalm: :corn:

[jonbuoy]

:facepalm: :corn:

Something to add?

[mashman]

Something to add?

More than, I fear, you are capable of understanding or knowing.

[Scuba_Steve]

Satirical Illustrations Of Today’s "Problems" Drawn In The Style Of The 50s

http://www.boredpanda.com/satiric-illustrations-retro-john-holcroft/

[jonbuoy]

More than, I fear, you are capable of understanding or knowing.

Yeah - thought so - nothing useful to add other than a few lame smiley faces and the odd You Tube video.

[mashman]

Yeah - thought so - nothing useful to add other than a few lame smiley faces and the odd You Tube video.

Thanks for accepting the smiley faces and utoob vids as useful. You might actually get a clue one day, how exciting.

All I will add is... in your response I see nothing more than the defense of the system at the expense of the people in so many ways that if you can't understand 1 of them, then it's pointless trying to offer you anything else, coz all you'll do is defend the system and blame the people. The funny thing is, people can and do change, the system however.........

[jonbuoy]

Thanks for accepting the smiley faces and utoob vids as useful. You might actually get a clue one day, how exciting.

All I will add is... in your response I see nothing more than the defense of the system at the expense of the people in so many ways that if you can't understand 1 of them, then it's pointless trying to offer you anything else, coz all you'll do is defend the system and blame the people. The funny thing is, people can and do change, the system however.........

News flash- the people are part of the problem. If people treated their kids right they wouldn't be forced to run away. If the diabetic guy had answered his phone, read his letters or communicated with his family or social services he would still be alive. He was unemployed - it's not like he didn't have time to do it.

You seem to want the government to solve every problem - they can't.

Would you want them regularly interviewing your children to make sure you weren't abusing them secretly in any way? Do regular home visits to check on every unemployed person?

If I travel to another country to work as a non resident I'm not entitled to any benefits or government help if it goes pear shaped.

[mashman]

News flash- the people are part of the problem. If people treated their kids right they wouldn't be forced to run away. If the diabetic guy had answered his phone, read his letters or communicated with his family or social services he would still be alive. He was unemployed - it's not like he didn't have time to do it.

You seem to want the government to solve every problem - they can't.

Would you want them regularly interviewing your children to make sure you weren't abusing them secretly in any way? Do regular home visits to check on every unemployed person?

If I travel to another country to work as a non resident I'm not entitled to any benefits or government help if it goes pear shaped.

You blame someone for being unable to function in a manner that you believe they should. You aren't them. You quite clearly don't understand their situation. Oh yeah... treat the parents right and you may find that that'll trickle down.


Psychopaths, even those who are psychopathic killers, however, are not mad, according to accepted legal and psychiatric standards. Their acts result not from a deranged mind but from a cold, calculating rationality combined with a chilling inability to treat others as thinking, feeling human beings.

Govt should be able to solve every problem... it's kind of why they're there!

:killingme :facepalm: seriously? Do checks on unemployed people coz what? they're more likely to molest?

That there are different "benefits" in various country's shows just how fuckin stupid this world is.

[jonbuoy]

You blame someone for being unable to function in a manner that you believe they should. You aren't them. You quite clearly don't understand their situation. Oh yeah... treat the parents right and you may find that that'll trickle down.



Govt should be able to solve every problem... it's kind of why they're there!

:killingme :facepalm: seriously? Do checks on unemployed people coz what? they're more likely to molest?

That there are different "benefits" in various country's shows just how fuckin stupid this world is.

No you muppet - do checks on the unemployed so they don't die in Diabetic comas! Different countries have different budgets - that's why some countries have huge poverty problems and some don't.

No the government can't solve every social problem. The government is not your nurse maid. Countries with good social welfare plans are in the minority world wide. Go visit the developing world and I bet you will never whine about our governments ever again.

[mashman]

No you muppet - do checks on the unemployed so they don't die in Diabetic comas! Different countries have different budgets - that's why some countries have huge poverty problems and some don't.

No the government can't solve every social problem. The government is not your nurse maid. Countries with good social welfare plans are in the minority world wide. Go visit the developing world and I bet you will never whine about our governments ever again.

I know my working sister in law is grateful to her family, friends and work colleagues that see that she's heading for a hypo and ensure they keep her topped up. She's not unemployed and is at exactly the same risk as they unemployed person of a diabetic coma. Should there be a health officer that checks people who aren't being "watched", yes, absolutely... especially if you're trying to prevent diabetic coma. Can the govt achieve this, yes, absolutely, it is a matter of will. Yeah, money problems preventing the appropriate care being given to a human being... fuckin genius method of dissolving a member of the public, and by extension their governmental (more mental than govt) representatives, from any form of responsibility for any other being that does not meet a set criteria and does not bend in order to accommodate all that the system has to offer. Pathetic really.

Yes, every govt can solve every social problem, they merely have to make a law and then walk away. More seriously, given that the govt is made up of people that are being paid to try to address a given issue, every govt should be able to solve every social problem. That you believe that I won't whine about a western govt again because there's another govt on the planet that does many things worse than the one that claims to represent me is seriously deluded... and in no way will I ever buy into that total and absolute horseshit again. You seem to be more easily appeased, but that's by design, so whilst it's your own fault (using your measuring stick), and whilst you can legally disassociate yourself from any outcome by claiming that it's worse over there, I won't, coz I know better.

Hell an R.B.E. govt would wipe out poverty and the associated financial stress that warps people's perceptions overnight and would achieve that which every govt today is incapable of doing.

[jonbuoy]

I know my working sister in law is grateful to her family, friends and work colleagues that see that she's heading for a hypo and ensure they keep her topped up. She's not unemployed and is at exactly the same risk as they unemployed person of a diabetic coma. Should there be a health officer that checks people who aren't being "watched", yes, absolutely... especially if you're trying to prevent diabetic coma. Can the govt achieve this, yes, absolutely, it is a matter of will. Yeah, money problems preventing the appropriate care being given to a human being... fuckin genius method of dissolving a member of the public, and by extension their governmental (more mental than govt) representatives, from any form of responsibility for any other being that does not meet a set criteria and does not bend in order to accommodate all that the system has to offer. Pathetic really.

Yes, every govt can solve every social problem, they merely have to make a law and then walk away. More seriously, given that the govt is made up of people that are being paid to try to address a given issue, every govt should be able to solve every social problem. That you believe that I won't whine about a western govt again because there's another govt on the planet that does many things worse than the one that claims to represent me is seriously deluded... and in no way will I ever buy into that total and absolute horseshit again. You seem to be more easily appeased, but that's by design, so whilst it's your own fault (using your measuring stick), and whilst you can legally disassociate yourself from any outcome by claiming that it's worse over there, I won't, coz I know better.

Hell an R.B.E. govt would wipe out poverty and the associated financial stress that warps people's perceptions overnight and would achieve that which every govt today is incapable of doing.

Make a law and walk away - yeah right - people break the laws we have now.

It's sad that you seem to want the government to monitor your every move as humans clearly can't be trusted to look after themselves.
Your right I don't understand it - I've always looked out for myself and my family - never expected anyone else to wipe my arse for me. That's the way I was brought up. I guess you were brought up to expect big brother government to look after you? Were your parents grafters or bludgers?

[mashman]

Make a law and walk away - yeah right - people break the laws we have now.

It's sad that you seem to want the government to monitor your every move as humans clearly can't be trusted to look after themselves.
Your right I don't understand it - I've always looked out for myself and my family - never expected anyone else to wipe my arse for me. That's the way I was brought up. I guess you were brought up to expect big brother government to look after you? Were your parents grafters or bludgers?

They do, yet we still make more laws, so was sarcasm... hence why the next sentence started with "More seriously".

So people at risk should be left to die with no societal intervention eh?
Let me make it easy for you then: Your arse is, and has been for some considerable time, wiped for you. You didn't make the toilet, you didn't make the paper, you didn't make the ex-food that went plop, you made absolutely nothing other than the mess, so you're obviously taking it all for granted. Brought up you say? :killingme.

Me, I was brought up in a very Conservative (right whinge) household, Maggie lovers the lot of 'em. My parents have next to fuck all to do with my upbringing. I AM a law unto myself! Sounds like your parents were arselickers... coz you claim that they are responsible for how you turned out.

[bogan]

Make a law and walk away - yeah right - people break the laws we have now.

It's sad that you seem to want the government to monitor your every move as humans clearly can't be trusted to look after themselves.
Your right I don't understand it - I've always looked out for myself and my family - never expected anyone else to wipe my arse for me. That's the way I was brought up. I guess you were brought up to expect big brother government to look after you? Were your parents grafters or bludgers?

Nah just put tracking chips in all the unemployed so we can check their vitals etc, and deliver aid (obviously there will be GPS too) when required. Simple.

Shares in tin foil please...

[Akzle]

Make a law and walk away - yeah right - people break the laws we have now.

no man is above the law.

what you mean is legislation


and if legislation dictates i should act against my better moral judgement, i'm naturally obliged to ignore it.

[mashman]

Democratic support for $1.1T spending bill wavers (http://news.yahoo.com/democratic-support-1-1t-spending-183531529.html)

U.S. spending bill bans funds to legalize marijuana in Washington, DC (http://news.yahoo.com/u-spending-bill-bans-funds-legalize-marijuana-washington-024623532.html)

Fuckin idiots.

[mashman]

no man is above the law.

what you mean is legislation


and if legislation dictates i should act against my better moral judgement, i'm naturally obliged to ignore it.

http://philleticia.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d764753ef0133ed87a2e0970b-800wi

[Banditbandit]

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0812/judge-dredd-police-law-demotivational-poster-1229919453.jpg

[mashman]

McDonald's to cut down menu items to boost speed (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-cut-down-menu-items-163421832.html)... OMG they're cutting down on our choices in order to be more efficient :shit:


The end choice of product will be chosen by the people, but what they can choose from is chosen by TPTB

Any clearer yet bogdan?

[Banditbandit]

McDonald's to cut down menu items to boost speed (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-cut-down-menu-items-163421832.html)... OMG they're cutting down on our choices in order to be more efficient :shit:



Process more food - sell more food - make more money ..isn't that what it's all about ??? Bugger consumer choice - it costs Maccas money ..

[mashman]

Process more food - sell more food - make more money ..isn't that what it's all about ??? Bugger consumer choice - it costs Maccas money ..

True... more of us like X, so they will produce more of X and those who like Y can get fucked. And don't forget the smaller portions. Wonder if we're paying for air in crisp (chippy to you) packets? :rofl:

[Akzle]

True... more of us like X, so they will produce more of X and those who like Y can get fucked. And don't forget the smaller portions. Wonder if we're paying for air in crisp (chippy to you) packets? :rofl:

and according to recent surveys: air is good.

[mashman]

and according to recent surveys: air is good.

Unless you live near any one of those vital industrial complexes that we need to keep that air so clean. We should tax shit like that.

[bogan]

McDonald's to cut down menu items to boost speed (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-cut-down-menu-items-163421832.html)... OMG they're cutting down on our choices in order to be more efficient :shit:



Any clearer yet bogdan?

I chose to go elsewhere entirely anyway; pita pit in fact, far better food. The good thing about capitalism is there is always choice :sunny:. If McD's was the only option, it would be like your communistical (RBE is too good a term for it) idea; in that we'd be fucked :bleh:

[mashman]

I chose to go elsewhere entirely anyway; pita pit in fact, far better food. The good thing about capitalism is there is always choice :sunny:. If McD's was the only option, it would be like your communistical (RBE is too good a term for it) idea; in that we'd be fucked :bleh:

So, because you chose to eat elsewhere, you have denied others their choice at Macca's. Selfish capitalistic prick :bleh: lulz@label.

[bogan]

So, because you chose to eat elsewhere, you have denied others their choice at Macca's. Selfish capitalistic prick :bleh: lulz@label.

:scratch: No they can still eat at a maccas, the line will just be one person shorter.

[mashman]

:scratch: No they can still eat at a maccas, the line will just be one person shorter.

But they're not getting the choice of what to eat there. In fact choice is being removed because of the financial system. Quality too likely.

[bogan]

But they're not getting the choice of what to eat there. In fact choice is being removed because of the financial system. Quality too likely.

You can order off-menu though. Choices for all!

"To turn itself around, the company is betting on a new premium service platform called "Create Your Taste" where customers can customize their own burgers and chicken items. It is also giving more autonomy to local operators so they can cater to preferences in local markets. The brand will also look to be more culinary inspired with how its looks at its look with attention to the length of ingredient labels."

So miles better than herr mushy giving you the option of boiled cabbage or the gulag.

[Brian d marge]

McDonald's to cut down menu items to boost speed (https://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-cut-down-menu-items-163421832.html)... OMG they're cutting down on our choices in order to be more efficient :shit:



Any clearer yet bogdan?
been doing that in japan for years due to japanese thinking too much when given a choice

trust me . . anymore than 2 choices and they lock up

[Brian d marge]

and according to recent surveys: air is good.
its nitogen not air as air will oxydize the crisps

same stuff ya put in tyres

[Brian d marge]

But they're not getting the choice of what to eat there. In fact choice is being removed because of the financial system. Quality too likely.
reminds me of what happened to tv

shyt american rubbish now days

i miss me close to home . . .

[Scuba_Steve]

I chose to go elsewhere entirely anyway; pita pit in fact, far better food. The good thing about capitalism is there is always choice :sunny:.

If there was true capitalism your ONLY choice would be McDs @ triple the cost, pita pit would never have existed.
Unfortunately those bloody liberals got involved & we have shit like "anti-monopoly" rules

[bogan]

If there was true capitalism your ONLY choice would be McDs @ triple the cost, pita pit would never have existed.
Unfortunately those bloody liberals got involved & we have shit like "anti-monopoly" rules

Monopoly's are not the way of capitalism either. You guys truly are stupid worlders :facepalm:

[jonbuoy]

They do, yet we still make more laws, so was sarcasm... hence why the next sentence started with "More seriously".

So people at risk should be left to die with no societal intervention eh?
Let me make it easy for you then: Your arse is, and has been for some considerable time, wiped for you. You didn't make the toilet, you didn't make the paper, you didn't make the ex-food that went plop, you made absolutely nothing other than the mess, so you're obviously taking it all for granted. Brought up you say? :killingme.

Me, I was brought up in a very Conservative (right whinge) household, Maggie lovers the lot of 'em. My parents have next to fuck all to do with my upbringing. I AM a law unto myself! Sounds like your parents were arselickers... coz you claim that they are responsible for how you turned out.

No didn't say people should be left to die - but the government can only do so much to help - If you don't make the most of the help your given that's your problem.

No I pay someone to make the food, toilet and toilet paper. That way they can specialise in making toilet paper, toilets and food. It would be very inefficient for me to hand make everything in my household. I guess you missed that part of social development at school? So what your doing really is just rebelling against your family to spite them- bit sad really.

[mashman]

Monopoly's are not the way of capitalism either. You guys truly are stupid worlders :facepalm:

NWO.


No didn't say people should be left to die - but the government can only do so much to help - If you don't make the most of the help your given that's your problem.

No I pay someone to make the food, toilet and toilet paper. That way they can specialise in making toilet paper, toilets and food. It would be very inefficient for me to hand make everything in my household. I guess you missed that part of social development at school? So what your doing really is just rebelling against your family to spite them- bit sad really.

To a massive extent I agree with that, but we're dealing with scared people who don't want to be found. Sad indictment that they don't find their govt approachable. In the meantime, we have a govt to act on our behalf. Still happening. Likely being abused too.

:rofl: I love my parents. Their political views don't change that. Variety is the spice of life innt... and at a price you can afford. I see you missed How to Be A Human 101, or at the very least lost it somewhere along the way. Now that's sadness.

[mashman]

been doing that in japan for years due to japanese thinking too much when given a choice

trust me . . anymore than 2 choices and they lock up

You sure they're not all robots?


reminds me of what happened to tv

shyt american rubbish now days

i miss me close to home . . .

I don't really miss the TV. I think households should be limited by number of hours they can watch TV. Pay By Hour I'll call it. I'll be a squillionnaire, but not quite a gazillionnaire.

[bogan]

NWO.

No Worthwhile Objective? I though that was NOW though, No Objective Worthwhile...


I see you missed How to Be A Human 101, or at the very least lost it somewhere along the way. Now that's sadness.

Sounds like frustrated jealousy to me herr mushy (cos you clearly miss the mark of realistic insult, again), prejudices against your betters do not make for a very long lived 'rebellion' :laugh:

[Scuba_Steve]

Monopoly's are not the way of capitalism either. You guys truly are stupid worlders :facepalm:

You need to pull your head out the ground, if capitalism was unimpeded we'd have monopolies or cartels everywhere

[jonbuoy]

NWO.



To a massive extent I agree with that, but we're dealing with scared people who don't want to be found. Sad indictment that they don't find their govt approachable. In the meantime, we have a govt to act on our behalf. Still happening. Likely being abused too.

:rofl: I love my parents. Their political views don't change that. Variety is the spice of life innt... and at a price you can afford. I see you missed How to Be A Human 101, or at the very least lost it somewhere along the way. Now that's sadness.

He wouldn't even ask his own sister for help -not much anyone can about that. No not lost how to be a human - part of that is being prepared to look after yourself- or at least try.

[mashman]

No Worthwhile Objective? I though that was NOW though, No Objective Worthwhile...

Sounds like frustrated jealousy to me herr mushy (cos you clearly miss the mark of realistic insult, again), prejudices against your betters do not make for a very long lived 'rebellion' :laugh:

Nice crapronyms.

You're the one reading prejudice into the post nummnutz.

[bogan]

You need to pull your head out the ground, if capitalism was unimpeded we'd have monopolies or cartels everywhere

Only if there is a lack of competition. And I somehow think fast food is a bit hard to create a monopoly, given low cost of market entry.


Nice crapronyms.

You're the one reading prejudice into the post nummnutz.

If the shoe fits.

What prejudice? You're just reading prejudice into my reading of your post; and it's numbnuts (a dearth of activity in ones head), not nummnuts (cos you ain't tasted mine, sonny).

[mashman]

He wouldn't even ask his own sister for help -not much anyone can about that. No not lost how to be a human - part of that is being prepared to look after yourself- or at least try.

True. Who in their right mind, oh, hang on, perhaps being in their right mind is the problem in the first place. There is no try when you're not looking to try... for whatever reasons I know not, so absolutely some will slip through the cracks, but there are those who do whilst in care of the system and that doesn't build trust when you're looking for something to grab a hold of. That's just one way of looking at it... and it would seem that most people are generally looking after themselves. However assigning a value to stuff to make sure lots of other people get less so that a very few can get more doesn't sound like a very human centric approach to me. More the breaking omelets and eggs thing.

[mashman]

If the shoe fits.

What prejudice? You're just reading prejudice into my reading of your post; and it's numbnuts (a dearth of activity in ones head), not nummnuts (cos you ain't tasted mine, sonny).

I have caps, tin foil caps.

In which case I had the correct spelling... however I had a different reason for using two mm's... and it had nothing to do with your incestuous far fetched filthy feltching fetish fantasy that you seem to have had in mind as "my" definition.

[bogan]

however I had a different reason for using two mm's...

A mild stroke? :shifty: pun intended*




*Most other threads/readers I'd let them appreciate the pun through their own intellect, but gotta throw you dumb fucks a bone** in here.

**you really shouldn't need this one, but, pun intended, again.

[Brian d marge]

Guess Who Profits From Selling Off NHS: Russell B…: http://youtu.be/Gs4Few3CbIw

floggin off the health care . .old news

nz rolled over and died years ago

[Ocean1]

You need to pull your head out the ground, if capitalism was unimpeded we'd have monopolies or cartels everywhere

In fact if you find yourself surrounded by monopolies and have little market choice it's far more likely you're in a communist state, not a capitalist one.

[Ocean1]

However assigning a value to stuff to make sure lots of other people get less so that a very few can get more doesn't sound like a very human centric approach to me.

Yeah. 'Cause the only reason we value shit is to make sure all the poor people don't get rich.




Fuckwit.

[mashman]

Yeah. 'Cause the only reason we value shit is to make sure all the poor people don't get rich.

Fuckwit.

Why does there have to be a solitary reason? I've no doubt that that's one of the reasons for a financial economy that vastly overrates itself.

Love you.

[Ocean1]

Why does there have to be a solitary reason? I've no doubt that that's one of the reasons for a financial economy that vastly overrates itself.

Love you.

There y'go, anthropomorphising your bogyman insecurities again. A financial economy doesn't have "reasons" and it doesn't rate itself, what, not being an aware entity an' all.

It's people, rating stuff that's the reason for a financial economy, not the other way around.

[Ocean1]

Think this belongs here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/64114756/The-psychology-of-conspiracy-belief

[mashman]

There y'go, anthropomorphising your bogyman insecurities again. A financial economy doesn't have "reasons" and it doesn't rate itself, what, not being an aware entity an' all.

It's people, rating stuff that's the reason for a financial economy.

Not aware? As far as I know there's some rather interesting technology being used in the stock market to lie, cheat and generally take the human risk out of making money. These things read twitter feeds and monitor social media and the stock market reacts. It is very much aware blind old scaredy... always has been.

I get that bit. It's an old white mans idea of how to run an economy. It has had its day. Can't wait for it to be gone.

[mashman]

Think this belongs here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/64114756/The-psychology-of-conspiracy-belief


Clinical psychologist Darshani Kumareswaran is delving in to the psychology of conspiracy belief, and has found some believers are likely to endorse far-fetched plots in an effort to make sense of chaotic situations beyond their control.

It is because the acts are happening in a supposed decent civilised age that conspiracy theorists are asking question and people are getting away with murder. Thanks for playing, next.

[Ocean1]

Not aware? As far as I know there's some rather interesting technology being used in the stock market to lie, cheat and generally take the human risk out of making money. These things read twitter feeds and monitor social media and the stock market reacts. It is very much aware blind old scaredy... always has been.

Data mining? That makes an economy aware? How very Orwellian.

And utterly wrong, of course. Perhaps you should break out the dictionary.

See it's not the economy using wholesale data, it's people. And no doubt some of 'em are lying and cheating, stupid people often do, but in fact the gathering of data isn't actually required to tell lies or to cheat, so why would liars and cheats bother?


I get that bit. It's an old white mans idea of how to run an economy. It has had its day. Can't wait for it to be gone.

You don't have a choice cookie boy, economies like ours are hugely successful, they're here to stay.

And I'll point out, again, that you successfully use and benefit from it every day. More: in paying for goods and services and accepting payment for same you prove every day that it works just fine. That, and the fact that you're a roaring hypocrite.

[Ocean1]

It is because the acts are happening in a supposed decent civilised age that conspiracy theorists are asking question and people are getting away with murder. Thanks for playing, next.

It is because they're fucked in the head. You can tell them at a thousand yards because they use quotes completely contradicting their arguments.

Here, have some relevant quotes:


You don't have to be mad to create conspiracy theories, but it certainly helps, new research suggests.

Just believing in them indicates you are more likely to be paranoid or mentally ill, a Victoria University study shows.

Widely held conspiracy theories range from harmless ones, such as the belief that the Moon landings were faked, to more dangerous delusions such as the one in Nigeria that polio vaccines were a Western plot to sterilise people. That led to vaccination crews being murdered and thousands dying from disease.

Clinical psychologist Darshani Kumareswaran is delving in to the psychology of conspiracy belief, and has found some believers are likely to endorse far-fetched plots in an effort to make sense of chaotic situations beyond their control.

[bogan]

Think this belongs here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/64114756/The-psychology-of-conspiracy-belief

Good read, and good placement.:2thumbsup

[mashman]

Data mining? That makes an economy aware? How very Orwellian.

And utterly wrong, of course. Perhaps you should break out the dictionary.

See it's not the economy using wholesale data, it's people. And no doubt some of 'em are lying and cheating, stupid people often do, but in fact the gathering of data isn't actually required to tell lies or to cheat, so why would liars and cheats bother?

How else do you get the statistics for your reports?

You mean you're unable to explain yourself.

And people make up the economy, therefore it is the economy completely totally and utterly. Stupid people often, wtf, I don't think you could be anymore wrong there. Of course it's a requirement, else the entire system would collapse as there isn't enough production to back the investment that we need in order to do anything other than limp into a future of more of the same. Alas I fear that a bridge to far.



You don't have a choice cookie boy, economies like ours are hugely successful, they're here to stay.

And I'll point out, again, that you successfully use and benefit from it every day. More: in paying for goods and services and accepting payment for same you prove every day that it works just fine. That, and the fact that you're a roaring hypocrite.

Cookie monster muthafucka. I set our bar far higher.

Have I ever said that I don't benefit from the system the way it is? The only thing I will say, is that it doesn't offer me anything to vote for, which means all avenues aren't being looked at when it comes to making the best use of our cumulative resources and ever dwindling time constraint due to resource wastage. I have no issue with my hypocrisy as I am fully aware of your perception of it.

[mashman]

It is because they're fucked in the head. You can tell them at a thousand yards because they use quotes completely contradicting their arguments.

Here, have some relevant quotes:

Relevant? :killingme... genius.

[Brian d marge]

You don't have a choice cookie boy, economies like ours are hugely successful, they're here to stay.

.
omg . thaank god there aint no fancy weaving machines or you would be off a smashing and a burnin

fact . . .not one fiat money system has worked not one i think there has been over 600 of em and all

even the mainstream press are starting to talk about corrections

japan, . . .118 to the dollar due to abes qe . . .in a currency war with china .

oh this is going to work . . . not

not if but when and those without debt and hard assest will be ok . .those without or in debt , student included . .are fked

[Ocean1]

fact . . .not one fiat money system has worked not one i think there has been over 600 of em and all


Then how does it come about that most of them top the charts on almost every metric used to gauge standard of living?

They're so successful the surpluses are spilling over into poor countries! L'horreur!

[mashman]

http://thelicenseplatesite.com/1images/4ed06a5ad0aa71126201152602.jpg

[mashman]

Yet more choice down the pan... and some financial woes... and I'm pretty sure someone mentioned child rape at the highest echelons of govt.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a36eKZw0xY4#t=1502

[jonbuoy]

Yet more choice down the pan... and some financial woes... and I'm pretty sure someone mentioned child rape at the highest echelons of govt.


Yup there are some twisted cunts out there. The thing is those twisted cunts are still going to be around even if we take away money. There has to be some management system for resources that aren't infinite (most of them) and some sort of law and order. If anything we will be less powerful not more without money.

[mashman]

Yup there are some twisted cunts out there. The thing is those twisted cunts are still going to be around even if we take away money. There has to be some management system for resources that aren't infinite (most of them) and some sort of law and order. If anything we will be less powerful not more without money.

I know they will, but the only reason they have power is because they pay people to do the bad things them cunts want done. If you can't pay them and they have absolutely nothing over you, and the rest of society has got your back because they know they're out there too... then it'll make it a fuckload harder for cunts to do cuntish stuff, because all they won't be able to afford it :yes:.

I'll say it again, Resource Based Economy. It does more than you can possibly imagine. Power to the people, literally. People will have their say. the word of the people will be the direction of the country. blah blah blah insert any number of 1 billion and 1 reasons why a Resource Based Economy makes it harder to abuse resources. It won't be perfect, but it spanks the arse off of anything else that there has ever been in terms of a solution. Gawd blesha Jacques.

I encourage you to give it some thought.

[Scuba_Steve]

In fact if you find yourself surrounded by monopolies and have little market choice it's far more likely you're in a communist state, not a capitalist one.

2 sides of the same coin then ay... Guess the only difference is who owns those monopolies

[JATZ]

I'll say it again, Resource Based Economy. It does more than you can possibly imagine. Power to the people, literally. People will have their say. the word of the people will be the direction of the country. blah blah blah insert any number of 1 billion and 1 reasons why a Resource Based Economy makes it harder to abuse resources. It won't be perfect, but it spanks the arse off of anything else that there has ever been in terms of a solution. Gawd blesha Jacques.

I encourage you to give it some thought.
I thought about it.... It won't work.
"Power to the people" is a nice slogan, but some people want more power than others and do anything to get it, other people are just not interested. It's human nature. Change that, and you might be able to fix other things.

Good luck with it....

[mashman]

I thought about it.... It won't work.
"Power to the people" is a nice slogan, but some people want more power than others and do anything to get it, other people are just not interested. It's human nature. Change that, and you might be able to fix other things.

Good luck with it....

How will those who want power take it? and what power will there be to take? Human behaviour changes based on it's surrounding environment. Change the environment and the behaviour will change. If there is nothing to take because everything is freely given, then where is the profit in taking and trying to wield power? PM me for "answers" iffen ye like :killingme

Question: Would you prefer to live in a Resource Based Economy that is open to abuse, but has no crime, poverty, excellent education facilities and standards, A+ healthcare facilities and standards etc..

or

Would you prefer to live under the current system that is open to abuse, but has crime, poverty, ok educational facilities and standards, ok healthcare facilities and standards etc...

Same people in power grabbing the same resources etc...?

Thanks for the luck... have a look at the Money Free Party as they're looking to represent an R.B.E. in NZ.

[Ocean1]

2 sides of the same coin then ay... Guess the only difference is who owns those monopolies

Correct. And the same solution, remove the protections that allow them to exist.

[jonbuoy]

I know they will, but the only reason they have power is because they pay people to do the bad things them cunts want done. If you can't pay them and they have absolutely nothing over you, and the rest of society has got your back because they know they're out there too... then it'll make it a fuckload harder for cunts to do cuntish stuff, because all they won't be able to afford it :yes:.

I'll say it again, Resource Based Economy. It does more than you can possibly imagine. Power to the people, literally. People will have their say. the word of the people will be the direction of the country. blah blah blah insert any number of 1 billion and 1 reasons why a Resource Based Economy makes it harder to abuse resources. It won't be perfect, but it spanks the arse off of anything else that there has ever been in terms of a solution. Gawd blesha Jacques.

I encourage you to give it some thought.

I do and have - only way I can see it working is with unlimited recources - which means unlimited power- which might well happen in the next few hundred years.

[mashman]

I do and have - only way I can see it working is with unlimited recources - which means unlimited power- which might well happen in the next few hundred years.

Ya don't need unlimited resource. You just need to be more careful with the ones that you currently have... and we're not, not even remotely. We won't make a few hundred years at the rate we're going, imho.

[bogan]

I do and have - only way I can see it working is with unlimited recources - which means unlimited power- which might well happen in the next few hundred years.

Exactly, hence why it has to emerge from within the current system, either started by a group of affluent individuals, or by those living a simple but immensely satisfying life. Once it is demonstrated the resources are unlimited (with respect to said groups needs) and that other things like crime, health, education, happiness are all better off too; it will be a no brainier. The point is though, the financial system prevents none of those things from happening; people do, reality does.

[jonbuoy]

Ya don't need unlimited resource. You just need to be more careful with the ones that you currently have... and we're not, not even remotely. We won't make a few hundred years at the rate we're going, imho.

At the moment money keeps a cap on things - only thing that stops us upgrading our cars, houses, clothes more often is money. The death nail in the big V8's in America wasn't so much the Smog regulation it was the cost of fuel in the 70's oil crisis. Imagine every single person on the planet wanting the lifestyle of a well healed westerner- it couldn't happen without unlimited energy.

[Ocean1]

At the moment money keeps a cap on things - only thing that stops us upgrading our cars, houses, clothes more often is money.

What?

We could double the quantity of money overnight and have exactly zero effect on resource availability.

What limits resource availability is the production of resources. Work. Effort. Negative entropy. Unless someone produces it it don't exist. Money is simply the unit of measuring negative entropy, as valued by the majority of society.

Want your share of resources? Earn them.

[jonbuoy]

What?

We could double the quantity of money overnight and have exactly zero effect on resource availability.

What limits resource availability is the production of resources. Work. Effort. Negative entropy. Unless someone produces it it don't exist. Money is simply the unit of measuring negative entropy, as valued by the majority of society.

Want your share of resources? Earn them.

I mean money keeps a cap on demand for resources. If it didnt we would be chewing through them even faster than we are now.

[mashman]

At the moment money keeps a cap on things - only thing that stops us upgrading our cars, houses, clothes more often is money. The death nail in the big V8's in America wasn't so much the Smog regulation it was the cost of fuel in the 70's oil crisis. Imagine every single person on the planet wanting the lifestyle of a well healed westerner- it couldn't happen without unlimited energy.

Then how did upgrading our cars, houses, clothes more often come into being if it could have been controlled using money? The V8 mob may well be offset by the other technology mob. Ya really think anyone wants to live like a well healed westerner? Perish the thought. We should all be hippies.

[mashman]

Want your share of resources? Earn them.

What do you call a blind dinosaur?

[jonbuoy]

Then how did upgrading our cars, houses, clothes more often come into being if it could have been controlled using money? The V8 mob may well be offset by the other technology mob. Ya really think anyone wants to live like a well healed westerner? Perish the thought. We should all be hippies.

The 3 Billion people living on less than $2.50 a day might disagree. Our standard of living has gone up - like I mentioned before. When we were kids not many people had 2 cars in a family - now its common. Even the cars themselves have improved massively.

[bogan]

I mean money keeps a cap on demand for resources. If it didnt we would be chewing through them even faster than we are now.

And that cap is dictated by how much we can get of the stuff, how much work/effort we can put in. Money is just a transfer medium.

And the other elephant in the room, wasteage, if things were not limited, more would be wasted. And shit would be way less efficient; steak dinners every week yo.

[mashman]

The 3 Billion people living on less than $2.50 a day might disagree. Our standard of living has gone up - like I mentioned before. When we were kids not many people had 2 cars in a family - now its common. Even the cars themselves have improved massively.

I'm pretty sure they would disagree too... and as everything seems to be slowly shifting east, I'm sure they'll get their turn. Our standard of living has allowed us to acquire more stuff at various stages of development. Some of it is great. A lot of it is utter shite. The energy and resource that goes into creating that utter shite stuff is pretty spectacular... in that if you could redirect it, you could do some quite marvelous things with it. I would suggest by starting with business hubs and ghost cities so that people needn't really go that far to get to work (lowering fuel consumption, usage and road wear n tear etc...).

[Akzle]

And shit would be way less efficient; steak dinners every week yo.

i do. And bacon and eggs five mornings in seven. Efficiemt as fuck.

[bogan]

i do. And bacon and eggs five mornings in seven. Efficiemt as fuck.

Not compared to boiled cabbage though.

[Akzle]

Not compared to boiled cabbage though.

depends what i intend powering with the exhaust gasses :sick:.... in my case a garden.

cows eat vegetables, i eat cows.
that's efiicientenating up the food chain like a motherfucker.

[bogan]

depends what i intend powering with the exhaust gasses :sick:.... in my case a garden.

cows eat vegetables, i eat cows.
that's efiicientenating up the food chain like a motherfucker.

See mashy, this is the sort of head in sand fuckwittery that will bring your communist system down in short order.

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/images/372x294xlandchart.gif.pagespeed.ic.TKIKCkQ6Hn.png

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html

Boiled cabbage for everyone!

[Ocean1]

What do you call a blind dinosaur?

Yes, yes I'm afraid that producing very little and then expecting other people to subsidise your choice does indeed make you a parasite.

And claiming that you have more right to decide what other people do with their earnings most certainly makes you a communist.

All you can hope to preserve from your unfortunate, anti-social and hugely embarrassing behaviour is that if you keep the whining to a minimum the more important contributors to society might not notice you there in the gutter.

[Akzle]

See mashy, this is the sort of head in sand fuckwittery that will bring your communist system down in short order.

[IMG]
http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html

Boiled cabbage for everyone!

hahaha. 'meat production'.

[mashman]

See mashy, this is the sort of head in sand fuckwittery that will bring your communist system down in short order.

http://michaelbluejay.com/veg/environment.html

Boiled cabbage for everyone!

I'm sure I saw bacon on his shopping list.

[mashman]

Yes, yes I'm afraid that producing very little and then expecting other people to subsidise your choice does indeed make you a parasite.

And claiming that you have more right to decide what other people do with their earnings most certainly makes you a communist.

All you can hope to preserve from your unfortunate, anti-social and hugely embarrassing behaviour is that if you keep the whining to a minimum the more important contributors to society might not notice you there in the gutter.

I produce happiness.

There would be no earnings.

:killingme@anti-social.

[Brian d marge]

Money is simply the unit of measuring negative entropy, as valued by the majority of society.

.

negative u sure???

stephen

[bogan]

I'm sure I saw bacon on his shopping list.

Sure is, with capitalism you get to choose bacon! With communism it is boiled cabbage or the gulag.

[Ocean1]

negative u sure???

stephen

I do a very good line in widespread macro-entropic services at very reasonable prices, but I assure you the market for making good shit out of fuck all is far more in demand, and far, far more profitable.

[mashman]

Sure is, with capitalism you get to choose bacon! With communism it is boiled cabbage or the gulag.

Good job a Resource Based Economy isn't communism.

[Ocean1]

Good job a Resource Based Economy isn't communism.


306658


and 10mfc

[mashman]

306658


and 10mfc

bwaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaa... that fulla has talent, and even if it did tick some communistic boxes, it'll be tickin plenty of others on the capitalism list too. Ooo, ooo, it's so confusing how to label it, erm, I know, let's label it, a resource Based Economy.

[bogan]

Good job a Resource Based Economy isn't communism.

Not all of them no, but the one you're proposing certainly is.

I thought you weren't concerned about labels anyway :shifty:

[mashman]

Not all of them no, but the one you're proposing certainly is.

I thought you weren't concerned about labels anyway :shifty:

No it's not.

[bogan]

No it's not.

http://people.howstuffworks.com/communism1.htm

Marx also detailed the 10 essential tenets of communism, namely:
Central banking system
Government controlled education
Government controlled labor
Government ownership of transportation and communication vehicles
Government ownership of agricultural means and factories
Total abolition of private property
Property rights confiscation
Heavy income tax on everyone
Elimination of rights of inheritance
Regional planning

What is the difference again? That you 'government' is said to consist of 'everyone'?

[mashman]

http://people.howstuffworks.com/communism1.htm

Marx also detailed the 10 essential tenets of communism, namely:
Central banking system: A necessity in any financial system. It'd be madness to allow banks to create money from nothing.
Government controlled education: Facilitated, not controlled
Government controlled labor: Facilitated, not controlled
Government ownership of transportation and communication vehicles: Facilitated, not controlled
Government ownership of agricultural means and factories: Facilitated, not controlled
Total abolition of private property: I've never stated that
Property rights confiscation: I've never state that
Heavy income tax on everyone: I never stated that
Elimination of rights of inheritance: I never stated that
Regional planning: Facilitated, but not controlled by the government

What is the difference again? That you 'government' is said to consist of 'everyone'?

Massive difference. The govt will eventually consist of everyone... and some capitalist protesters.

[Ocean1]

Massive difference. The govt will eventually consist of everyone... and some capitalist protesters.

But in the meantime the govt will consist of you and your mates?

Totalitarian states have a bad record of pretty much everything. Think we'll stick with democracy tah.

[bogan]

Massive difference. The govt will eventually consist of everyone... and some capitalist protesters.

So apart from some semantics with the definition of the 'govt' it is communism; just as I thought, I'll continue to use the term I think.

[mashman]

But in the meantime the govt will consist of you and your mates?

Totalitarian states have a bad record of pretty much everything. Think we'll stick with democracy tah.

:killingme

So you're saying that there will be no democracy, because I've never stated that.


So apart from some semantics with the definition of the 'govt' it is communism; just as I thought, I'll continue to use the term I think.

Cool.