Stupid World [Archive] - Page 9

Akzle

1st March 2014, 13:58

here's a tip from yesterday

NEVER try to put a 45kg dog who DOESN'T WANT TO BE WASHED through an automatic dogwash ............ unless wearing bathers and scuba gear

(I think there's probably something in that for all of us?)

on the bright side, I personally copped enough bug-killing conditioner to ensure that I won't have to worry about ticks and fleas for at least three months ..................

ive got a better idea. If you wouldnt eat it, dont put it on your skin, your dog, or in your environment.
But feel free to enjoy some cancer.

A close friend and ally had good success with oatmeal dog wash, against fleas.

mashman

1st March 2014, 14:27

A close friend and ally had good success with oatmeal dog wash, against fleas.

That's only because you and your chum like the dog licking you clean once you've been splattered in oatmeal.

Akzle

1st March 2014, 14:48

That's only because you and your chum like the dog licking you clean once you've been splattered in oatmeal.

chumette*
i didnt get involved. But she is kinky...

(if youre reading this chumette, i promise i dont mean it)

mashman

1st March 2014, 15:09

chumette*
i didnt get involved. But she is kinky...

(if youre reading this chumette, i promise i dont mean it)

Ohhhhhhhhh... so you're the dog.

bogan

1st March 2014, 15:48

If you wouldnt eat it, dont put it on your skin

Like socks you mean?

Akzle

1st March 2014, 16:12

Like socks you mean?

depends what theyre made of. Sheeps or possums, yes.
Melted down jews or other plastics, not so much.

Brian d marge

1st March 2014, 16:44

Oh come on, that's a cheap shot. Don't listen to that fucknuckle... I mean don't listen to my negatively leaning colleague.

Poor people are lazy. They simply aren't trying hard enough. They need our help.

Please vote for the corporations that spend billions in your communities every year.

By voting this year, you will be helping corporations to be allowed to operate above the law. In doing so you will be helping NZ, you will be helping your fellow man and you will be helping the lazy by allowing the corporations to give the NZ people what they need, ECT.

Please vote. But don't trust the guy above as he doesn't use enough words and his spelling and grandma are poor. He also sees NZ as being destroyed, which, is, a blatant lie, because people, we are clearly better off than most nations in this world and we should be grateful for this. Moreover we should spread our message of superiority around the globe and encourage our values, just like our forefathers did before us. Why would you trust the man above? He's probably gay too.

The trans-pacific partnership agreement is Key to us suing the US for taking our rightful status as #1... a status that has clearly been abused over the years. So what say you New Zealand? A brighter future awaits us all because we are better

and my Dr said that watching porn is good cardio exercise. Go hard New Zealand

HEIL.

Its the poor people

Thw gap between rich and poor will be the main focus in the coming elections

The men from the ministry will focus all their energys and the gap will dissolve

So we need to help by voting

And we can sleep soundly at night that the tppa will sail through

So smoothly in fact that it will hardly raise a ripple in the main stream press

In fact we should vote to give the men from the ministry more money for such sterling work

Great job sterling work

Stephen

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

mstriumph

1st March 2014, 21:29

ive got a better idea. If you wouldnt eat it, dont put it on your skin, your dog, or in your environment.
But feel free to enjoy some cancer.

A close friend and ally had good success with oatmeal dog wash, against fleas.

what on EARTH makes you feel I'd eat oatmeal?? :sick:

Ocean1

2nd March 2014, 08:12

Akzle

2nd March 2014, 09:08

what kind of misguided dipshit thinks a drivers license equates to the ability to drive??

Ocean1

2nd March 2014, 10:25

what kind of misguided dipshit thinks a drivers license equates to the ability to drive??

What makes you think the majority of survey samples can do either?

And what kind of pathetic loser thinks they can rely on mum to take them to their weekend Mcjob because sorting your own transport is too hard.

Akzle

2nd March 2014, 11:05

te waewae express.
:D

mashman

2nd March 2014, 11:53

bogan

2nd March 2014, 12:09

More poor people in the making...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/9779944/Teens-turn-off-driving

"Both rural and urban New Zealand are affected by the trend, (to not bother getting a licence) New Zealand Transport Agency statistics show. Of the cities, Wellington shows the biggest decline, with the number of licensed drivers aged 16 to 19 falling by as much as 75 per cent."

"Their parents or friends will drive them around so they don't need a licence. I said to them, what if you get a job? And they reply, it would need to be at the weekend so my parents could drive me."

Definitely concerning. Growing up rurally it was always a priority to get a license asap, even back then we noticed some of the towny kids weren't bothering, and that has been quite inconvenient for them since. NZ public transport just isn't up to the task. And getting chauffeured by their parents, a huge wast of resources. Personally, I was against the raising of learner age for those reasons.
Sure in some cases, even many cases, owning a car is not an economical option, but if they don't get their license before heading off to uni or elsewhere, for many of them it isn't an option at all.

Brian d marge

2nd March 2014, 13:14

Definitely concerning. Growing up rurally it was always a priority to get a license asap, even back then we noticed some of the towny kids weren't bothering, and that has been quite inconvenient for them since. NZ public transport just isn't up to the task. And getting chauffeured by their parents, a huge wast of resources. Personally, I was against the raising of learner age for those reasons.
Sure in some cases, even many cases, owning a car is not an economical option, but if they don't get their license before heading off to uni or elsewhere, for many of them it isn't an option at all.

Its happened here

people just dont need a car

I probably use mine once or twice a month , rest of the time its bicycle ( a lot less hassle for short trips)

A couple of issues , now car how does one get a leg over ? and how are the boys in blue fund donuts ?

Stephen

bogan

2nd March 2014, 13:23

Its happened here

people just dont need a car

I probably use mine once or twice a month , rest of the time its bicycle ( a lot less hassle for short trips)

A couple of issues , now car how does one get a leg over ? and how are the boys in blue fund donuts ?

Stephen

Pop density and public transportation just isn't comparable to here though. In NZ, to not be able to drive, is to limit your available living areas and job opportunities, or it is to put more burden on others to transport you around.

husaberg

2nd March 2014, 14:12

A complete nutter is what he was.

Doesn't change the fact he was a wise man
"Any customer can have a car painted any colour that he wants so long as it is black." or to paraphrase "Any colour so long as it's black" & lets face it never has there been a finer paraphrased quote

The $5-a-day Workday
After the success of the moving assembly line, Henry Ford had another transformative idea: in January 1914, he startled the world by announcing that Ford Motor Company would pay $5 a day to its workers. The pay increase would also be accompanied by a shorter workday (from nine to eight hours). While this rate didn't automatically apply to every worker, it more than doubled the average autoworker's wage.
While Henry's primary objective was to reduce worker attrition—labor turnover from monotonous assembly line work was high—newspapers from all over the world reported the story as an extraordinary gesture of goodwill.
Thousands of Workers Flock to Detroit
After Ford’s announcement, thousands of prospective workers showed up at the Ford Motor Company employment office. People surged toward Detroit from the American South and the nations of Europe. As expected, employee turnover diminished. And, by creating an eight-hour day, Ford could run three shifts instead of two, increasing productivity.
Henry Ford had reasoned that since it was now possible to build inexpensive cars in volume, more of them could be sold if employees could afford to buy them. The $5 day helped better the lot of all American workers and contributed to the emergence of the American middle class. In the process, Henry Ford had changed manufacturing forever.
Model t price in 1914 was $440
That’s 88 days wages……….
In 1923 it was $290 .do your own math

mstriumph

2nd March 2014, 14:13

More poor people in the making...

"Both rural and urban New Zealand are affected by the trend, (to not bother getting a licence) New Zealand Transport Agency statistics show. Of the cities, Wellington shows the biggest decline, with the number of licensed drivers aged 16 to 19 falling by as much as 75 per cent."

"Their parents or friends will drive them around so they don't need a licence. I said to them, what if you get a job? And they reply, it would need to be at the weekend so my parents could drive me."

:mad: RANT ALERT!

I think it's more a demonstration of privilege than an indication of impending poverty (unless you mean poverty of the spirit and imagination)

Indulging young adults seems to be the new black - there seems to be a trend towards feather-bedding the young of the middle classes, they are permitted/encouraged to live at home until (sometimes) their late twenties, Mom does their washing, cooking, cleaning ... mebbe they pay token board, oft-times they don't....

... they are feted and deferred to like young princelings /princesslings; sheltered from 'the real world' and don't see the need to learn the skills to deal with it (cooking, negotiation, cleaning, budgeting, driving, etc). For some of them the dream goes on, they form relationships and move the loved one in to suck off the parental teat.... eventually mom and pop 'pop off' leaving the castle to the heirs.

Sad thing is, these kids think they've got a good deal
except they've got to give up their independence, self-reliance, spirit of enquiry and better nature to get it... these makes them no different to the other 'spongers' and 'bludgers' and 'lazy layabouts' that some of you complain of.

I blame NOT the recipients, but those that facilitate and perpetuate it
the parents and the government

To foster dependence in ANYONE is outrageous theft and abuse

I don't CARE why or when it's done
... by a parent afraid that to speak up will lead to an empty nest (with the scarey prospect of personal growth that THAT entails), afraid of moving on and trying to buy love
... or politicians too lazy to police the system to prevent it being taken advantage of and trying to buy votes

It's life-limiting, expensive (on many levels) and JUST PLAIN WRONG :hitcher:

:corn: ok - Discuss please.

Akzle

2nd March 2014, 14:22

[B]
:corn: ok - Discuss please.

ive never looked to politicians or police to make my life or my kids better.

mstriumph

2nd March 2014, 14:25

:drinknsin: good for you

now tell me you ensure your kids do 'chores' as they are able and routinely clean up their own rooms and we'll REALLY be on the same page ;)

SPman

2nd March 2014, 14:25

More poor people in the making...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/9779944/Teens-turn-off-driving

"Both rural and urban New Zealand are affected by the trend, (to not bother getting a licence) New Zealand Transport Agency statistics show. Of the cities, Wellington shows the biggest decline, with the number of licensed drivers aged 16 to 19 falling by as much as 75 per cent."

"Their parents or friends will drive them around so they don't need a licence. I said to them, what if you get a job? And they reply, it would need to be at the weekend so my parents could drive me."
Interesting.
My younger son has never had a licence, nor, the desire to drive a vehicle. He learnt how to ride a pushbike in his mid 20's, and gets around on that and his mountain bike. Otherwise, he is quite happy to use public transport to go wherever he wants to go. Mind you he lives in Swamp City.......
Older son got a learners...drove on that for some years, then a restricted, when he found he'd better do so, and didn't get a full license for about 10 yrs after he actually decided to get a licence at all, car and bike!.....

Whereas I'd drive anything from age 12 and got my full car licence a week after I turned 15!

Different generational outlook??

Ocean1

2nd March 2014, 14:59

Different generational outlook??

It's not safe to generalise, apparently, but like everyone else I do it all the time. Moderately successfully. (Dunno why that should surprise anyone come to think of it, we're designed to do it well...)

...Nevermind, I found this a couple of months ago: http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-unhappy.html ,and remember thinking it fit a couple of examples of the species I was working with at the time perfectly. Even down to the aggressive denial that there was any intergenerational difference, particularly wrt work ethics.

And while on one hand I'm aware that dissing the younger generation is an old, old pastime, I've since noted that the above shoe fits a disturbingly high number of them.

Don't bod well for any of you old bastards planning to depend on a pension. Or retire at all for that matter.

mashman

2nd March 2014, 15:49

:corn: ok - Discuss please.

Might I add allowing the "kid" to save money for stuff so that they can enjoy a life.

On another note... I never got my drivers license til I was 30 and I had lived in a place where public transport was 2 buses a day to the city (100+ miles away) as well as living in the city. I cycled or hitched. I DID NOT WANT OR NEED A CAR. I love it when our own reasons are put forward as the reasons those with less experience should do something.

mashman

2nd March 2014, 15:56

...Nevermind, I found this a couple of months ago: http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-unhappy.html

What absolute :tugger:. Working hard will define you... and if it doesn't, then you're obviously expecting too much from life and should get real :killingme

SPman

2nd March 2014, 16:11

Don't bod well for any of you old bastards planning to depend on a pension. Or retire at all for that matter. Retire? What's that? I think I'm doomed to keep working til I die in harness. 65 isn't an option. For someone who was born to be a dilettante, the lack of money through most of my life has been a bit of a bugger, but, that's life. - mind you, dad worked til he was in his late 70's and his father worked until they found out how old he was and made him retire at 73.

bogan

2nd March 2014, 16:14

It's not safe to generalise, apparently, but like everyone else I do it all the time. Moderately successfully. (Dunno why that should surprise anyone come to think of it, we're designed to do it well...)

...Nevermind, I found this a couple of months ago: http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-generation-y-yuppies-are-unhappy.html ,and remember thinking it fit a couple of examples of the species I was working with at the time perfectly. Even down to the aggressive denial that there was any intergenerational difference, particularly wrt work ethics.

And while on one hand I'm aware that dissing the younger generation is an old, old pastime, I've since noted that the above shoe fits a disturbingly high number of them.

Don't bod well for any of you old bastards planning to depend on a pension. Or retire at all for that matter.

Well, I never knew I was a gen-y'r untill now, cos I sure as shit don't identify with those underprivileged fuckers, certainly identify with ms-triumphs musings a lot more...

I think some renaming is in order, I am a gen-y'r, those other fuckers are generation-me'rs

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/_D3jwT4Sw54" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

mstriumph

2nd March 2014, 16:26

Might I add allowing the "kid" to save money for stuff so that they can enjoy a life. Yep gifts are nice but nothing beats something you've set your heart on and bought with your own money. Parents should understand they deprive their child of that joy if they automatically buy everything it wants ...

On another note... I never got my drivers license til I was 30 and I had lived in a place where public transport was 2 buses a day to the city (100+ miles away) as well as living in the city. I cycled or hitched. I DID NOT WANT OR NEED A CAR. I love it when our own reasons are put forward as the reasons those with less experience should do something.

brought up in rural England - didn't get a driver's licence until my mid 20's when I needed it for work in South Africa.
Bikes were different. Bought my first bike at 14 - had been saving for it since I was 7. Got my full licence 2 yrs later (the rules were different then -the village plod just stood at the war memorial and watched as I drove up and down the road).

Before that I relied on public transport, my bicycle and my feet (ie I certainly wouldn't have asked/expected my family to drive me where I wanted to go ... ):sunny:

Akzle

2nd March 2014, 16:39

:drinknsin: good for you

now tell me you ensure your kids do 'chores' as they are able and routinely clean up their own rooms and we'll REALLY be on the same page ;)

they do. Because if they dont, i do.
And i use fire. Cleansing fire.

Also. They havent reached the st/age where being an asshole seems like a good idea.
And ive fairly well beaten into them that i can be a much bigger asshole.

mstriumph

2nd March 2014, 16:46

Retire? What's that? I think I'm doomed to keep working til I die in harness. .

:( 'doomed' is sad. I come from a long line of folk who died in harness. Yes, they made money but that wasn't the motivation ... they worked because they enjoyed it.

I'll probably work until I die. I enjoy it - not necessarily the job, the company or the quaint notions of the silo-oriented ladder climbers I work with (eg work hard and get things done = 1 point; sniff the boss's jockey shorts and say 'yummy' = 100 points) but because I can see I make a difference and that's important to me. OK, they also pay me. :cool:

If you look for something you enjoy, something you find fulfilling, in what you do for a crust .... it'll be a pleasure, not a sentence.
Just saying. :msn-wink:

mstriumph

2nd March 2014, 16:48

they do. Because if they dont, i do.
And i use fire. Cleansing fire.

Also. They havent reached the st/age where being an asshole seems like a good idea.
And ive fairly well beaten into them that i can be a much bigger asshole.

:rolleyes::laugh::msn-wink:

mstriumph

2nd March 2014, 16:55

Well, I never knew I was a gen-y'r untill now, cos I sure as shit don't identify with those underprivileged fuckers, certainly identify with ms-triumphs musings a lot more...

I think some renaming is in order, I am a gen-y'r, those other fuckers are generation-me'rs

thanks :sunny: Glad to hear there are still real people around

but 'me, me, me' isn't really a generational thing ... they seem to be everywhere.

Ocean1

2nd March 2014, 16:55

Who gives a flying fuck.

Well I don't. Largely because I have no plans to pay for their shortcomings.

What absolute :tugger:. Working hard will define you... and if it doesn't, then you're obviously expecting too much from life and should get real :killingme

it fit a couple of examples of the species I was working with at the time perfectly. Even down to the aggressive denial that there was any intergenerational difference, particularly wrt work ethics.

Yup, perfect fit.

mashman

2nd March 2014, 16:57

Yep gifts are nice but nothing beats something you've set your heart on and bought with your own money. Parents should understand they deprive their child of that joy if they automatically buy everything it wants ...

I used to think the same re: nothing beats earning that special something for yourself. Still do to a large extent, although looking back I have many regrets that I took and implemented that view. The outcome was exactly the same. I used to say that I had saved for 7 years to get my bike without examining what that actually meant to me... moreover just assumed that because I had followed the path that was expected that that was why I was happy with the outcome. Turns out 1 had very little to do with the other. I would have enjoyed the Prila just as much had it been given to me as it does to have "earned" it. It serves (served) a purpose. In fact if I had have been given it I know I would have enjoyed it more, because all of that money that was saved would have gone into trips etc... Lots of experiences were lost because of the "need" to save for it. So whilst I get my kids to do "chores", it's more about the helping out. They don't always receive a reward, as the purpose is not to seek reward (seriously damaging behaviour when I look at the adults that carrot and stick approach has produced).

So......... I will GIVE my kids everything that is at my disposal. You betcha! Conventional "wisdom" is wrong imho. If you've brought them up properly, it won't matter why or how they receive the things they "desire", coz the outcome will be the same (and with any luck, they'll get even more enjoyment out of it NOW instead of 7 years later).

brought up in rural England - didn't get a driver's licence until my mid 20's when I needed it for work in South Africa.
Bikes were different. Bought my first bike at 14 - had been saving for it since I was 7. Got my full licence 2 yrs later (the rules were different then -the village plod just stood at the war memorial and watched as I drove up and down the road).

Before that I relied on public transport, my bicycle and my feet (ie I certainly wouldn't have asked/expected my family to drive me where I wanted to go ... ):sunny:

Moi village were in deepest darkest Scotland. In many ways I miss that way of life... which, after reflection, turns out wasn't a million miles away from early 70's Liverpool and that way of life. heh, I remember sitting at the war memorial having some insightful chats with the local headcase and his wolf. Quite the eye opener into a different world.

I still asked for a lift... and we usually got it when there was a party on. The worst the folks could do was say no... and for some reason, I think they remembered what it was like to be my age and generally indulged activity's that most modern parents would baulk at. For that, I am eternally grateful. Even when they kicked me out of the house :D

mashman

2nd March 2014, 17:00

Yup, perfect fit.

You need new glasses mate.

Brian d marge

2nd March 2014, 19:52

Retire? What's that? I think I'm doomed to keep working til I die in harness. 65 isn't an option. For someone who was born to be a dilettante, the lack of money through most of my life has been a bit of a bugger, but, that's life. - mind you, dad worked til he was in his late 70's and his father worked until they found out how old he was and made him retire at 73.

Dont worry Mr D mardge is here

The brits stumped up 7.2 million POUNDs ( not sheckles or stewart Island wonga) to shoot a few badgers

mate between us , ( split 80 /20 cause I thought of the Idea )

We go Rambo on a few badgers , and we are quids in !

Ordering my roller now ,,,u in?

Stephen

here is is the enemy
http://<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EIyixC9NsLI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> (http://<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/EIyixC9NsLI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>)

bogan

2nd March 2014, 21:43

thanks :sunny: Glad to hear there are still real people around

but 'me, me, me' isn't really a generational thing ... they seem to be everywhere.

Yeh, and there always will be I guess. But, I think the problem here is such people or groups of people are not widely accepted, if suh behaviour is the norm for a generation, there is more chance for rapid decay I would think.

So, shun all 'me-me-me'rs'

Scuba_Steve

3rd March 2014, 07:25

Yeh, and there always will be I guess. But, I think the problem here is such people or groups of people are not widely accepted, if suh behaviour is the norm for a generation, there is more chance for rapid decay I would think.

So, shun all 'me-me-me'rs'

Cept the Govt likes the "me-me-me'rs" makes divide & conquer much, much easier; which is why people are gently swayed in that direction via social engineering

bogan

3rd March 2014, 07:35

Cept the Govt likes the "me-me-me'rs" makes divide & conquer much, much easier; which is why people are gently swayed in that direction via social engineering

So, isn't that more reason to shun them?

Scuba_Steve

3rd March 2014, 09:34

So, isn't that more reason to shun them?

If you wish to help the Govts divide & conquer, yep sure.

bogan

3rd March 2014, 09:59

If you wish to help the Govts divide & conquer, yep sure.

Tbh, basing my own actions to counter the perceived intentions of the govt seems fairly stupid. Me-me-me'rs are cancerous to society, how do you deal with them?

Akzle

3rd March 2014, 10:50

Tbh, basing my own actions to counter the perceived intentions of the govt seems fairly stupid. Me-me-me'rs are cancerous to society, how do you deal with them?

that implies a) society exists, b) that they were ever part of it, c) that they are actually a problem.

Right. Fuck the lot of ya, im off to get a unicorn.

Scuba_Steve

3rd March 2014, 11:51

Tbh, basing my own actions to counter the perceived intentions of the govt seems fairly stupid. Me-me-me'rs are cancerous to society, how do you deal with them?

re-education; the enemy of my enemy n all that.
But I'm not talking the individual, I'm talking the "me'ers" as a whole

bogan

3rd March 2014, 12:02

re-education; the enemy of my enemy n all that.
But I'm not talking the individual, I'm talking the "me'ers" as a whole

I'd figure shunning them is education from the school of hard knocks. I mean how else do you educate them?

Scuba_Steve

3rd March 2014, 12:17

I'd figure shunning them is education from the school of hard knocks. I mean how else do you educate them?

Well they were educated to become "me'ers" so it only stands to reason they can be re-educated back. Shunning them would only see the Govt advantaged as the shun'd i.e. the "me'ers" would backlash against those, who in their rose tinted eyes, have disadvantaged them

bogan

3rd March 2014, 12:26

Well they were educated to become "me'ers" so it only stands to reason they can be re-educated back. Shunning them would only see the Govt advantaged as the shun'd i.e. the "me'ers" would backlash against those, who in their rose tinted eyes, have disadvantaged them

Indeed, the reason which stands is they'd been coddled into me'rs, so a healthy dose of foot to arse would be the education back. Shunning them means the govt legislation reflects that, so it is the govt they would be mad at.

Brian d marge

3rd March 2014, 12:35

The school of hard knocks will be coming to a town near you

Watch in amazement: how the rug can be pulled from under your whole family without you even knowing !

See: fantastic figures that shoot lasers and travel to the moon and supersonic speeds

you and your family will never have to work again , in this amazing new and brave world

Stephen

ps.
ok I made up the lasers , sorry , no lasers .

but
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26136873
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26387690
(http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26387690)
but she said: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-25962726

keep those interest rates low , so the stock market looks good , then when the debt or markets shift to gold or bonds , watch in amazement at how fast a free falling maket can travel with all the wonderful effects !

Da comrade Da !
<tbody>

Здравствуйте!
Hello!
formal, at any time

Доброе утро.
Good morning.
before noon

Добрый день.
Good afternoon.
after noon

Добрый вечер.
Good evening.
after 6 pm

Привет.
Hi.
informal

Как поживаете?
How are you?
formal

Как поживаешь?
How are you?
informal

</tbody>

Scuba_Steve

3rd March 2014, 14:24

Indeed, the reason which stands is they'd been coddled into me'rs, so a healthy dose of foot to arse would be the education back. Shunning them means the govt legislation reflects that, so it is the govt they would be mad at.

But alot of that would also rely on the 'us' outnumbering the 'me' & as the 'me' keep growing in numbers can it be successful?

bogan

3rd March 2014, 14:36

But alot of that would also rely on the 'us' outnumbering the 'me' & as the 'me' keep growing in numbers can it be successful?

More so sooner than later, that is for sure.

mstriumph

3rd March 2014, 14:45

.......................

Right. Fuck the lot of ya, im off to get a unicorn.

I'll have what HE's having ...............
:msn-wink:

Akzle

3rd March 2014, 15:54

Come on down to the other side
Come with us through the gates of hell
We will drag you from where you are To where you belong
There's nothing... To fear
Your saviours... Are here
This ship is coming down
This ship is coming down
This ship is coming down Coming down coming down
You... You are so precious A diamond in the rough
And when you try to escape
I'll be holding on But I can't sleep until this is done
They're in my head they're in my soul
Come on down to the other side
We... are in your spirit
We're everywhere you turn

I'll have what HE's having ...............
:msn-wink:

curm git sum!

SPman

3rd March 2014, 15:56

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently." - Friedrich Nietzsche

mashman

3rd March 2014, 17:14

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently." - Friedrich Nietzsche

"The Circle Of Life" - Elton John

Scuba_Steve

3rd March 2014, 18:25

“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests,” - America says to Russia :facepalm:

mashman

3rd March 2014, 19:13

“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests,” - America says to Russia :facepalm:

Justification is not required as it is the will of the people they represent. Those who vote are guilty of murder.

Akzle

3rd March 2014, 19:58

“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests,” - America says to Russia :facepalm:

i fuken heard something (that) or similar on the radio today and laughed my pants off.
Fuken emergency jewnited nations meetings and shit.
Russia should stage a land based occupation of usa. That would be epic lulz.

Scuba_Steve

3rd March 2014, 20:06

Russia should stage a land based occupation of usa. That would be epic lulz.

I'd fuckin :rofl: if Russia just up & said; you know what 'Merica, "boom!" headshot! :ar15:

Brian d marge

4th March 2014, 00:54

“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests,” - America says to Russia :facepalm:

you do if there is a huge pipeline running though it

ya nuke the fk outa it, Boom..... eat lead small backward country !

Stephen

Snip:
The Russia–Ukraine gas disputes refer to a number of disputes between Ukrainian oil and gas company Naftohaz Ukrainy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftohaz_Ukrainy) and Russian gas supplier Gazprom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazprom) over natural gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas) supplies, prices, and debts. These disputes have grown beyond simple business disputes into transnational political issues—involving political leaders from several countries—that threaten natural gas supplies in numerous European countries dependent on natural gas imports from Russian suppliers, which are transported through Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine). Russia provides approximately a quarter of the natural gas consumed in the European Union; approximately 80% of those exports travel through pipelines across Ukrainian soil prior to arriving in the EU.[1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_disputes#cite_note-BBC182009-1)

Brian d marge

4th March 2014, 01:09

I'd fuckin :rofl: if Russia just up & said; you know what 'Merica, "boom!" headshot! :ar15:

They have
Obama returned early from a g20 meeting in Russia , where Russia told them quite clearly we will carry on in syria and go fk ya-self America.

Snip washington post :
Putin said that he believed a unilateral strike would be a violation of international law. He argued that the use of force against a sovereign nation is allowed only as a matter of self-defense, and that Syria has not attacked the United States.
Putin also confirmed that Russia’s support for the Assad regime would continue.
“Will we help Syria? Yes, we will,” he said. “We are doing it right now. We are supplying arms. We are providing economic assistance.” He said Russia wants to expand its humanitarian assistance to Syria.

Also china , Russia are moving away from the dollar and every one and their horse is just waiting for the dollar to collapse as the reserve currency. How this affects NZ I dont know .

Russia may have waited a few years but its boxing smart !

Stephen

blue rider

4th March 2014, 20:25

fukushima, the gifts that keeps on giving?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/03/the-giant-lie-about-fukushima/

Brian d marge

5th March 2014, 03:02

fukushima, the gifts that keeps on giving?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/03/the-giant-lie-about-fukushima/

Im fked then

meanwhile in Rome

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/16/us-usa-economy-capital-idUSBRE97F02T20130816

the chinks have been buying gold , and the jermans are pissedm, cause the stuff they got had tungsten in it

Hahahahaaa

tits up I reckon !!

Stephen

Akzle

5th March 2014, 03:41

Im fked then

meanwhile in Rome

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/16/us-usa-economy-capital-idUSBRE97F02T20130816

the chinks have been buying gold , and the jermans are pissedm, cause the stuff they got had tungsten in it

Hahahahaaa

tits up I reckon !!

Stephen

China cannot dump U.S. debt,
which could spook markets
and upset the U.S.
government,

:laugh:

husaberg

5th March 2014, 07:15

you do if there is a huge pipeline running though it

ya nuke the fk outa it, Boom..... eat lead small backward country !

Stephen

Snip:
The Russia–Ukraine gas disputes refer to a number of disputes between Ukrainian oil and gas company Naftohaz Ukrainy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naftohaz_Ukrainy) and Russian gas supplier Gazprom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazprom) over natural gas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_gas) supplies, prices, and debts. These disputes have grown beyond simple business disputes into transnational political issues—involving political leaders from several countries—that threaten natural gas supplies in numerous European countries dependent on natural gas imports from Russian suppliers, which are transported through Ukraine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine). Russia provides approximately a quarter of the natural gas consumed in the European Union; approximately 80% of those exports travel through pipelines across Ukrainian soil prior to arriving in the EU.[1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%E2%80%93Ukraine_gas_disputes#cite_note-BBC182009-1)

Is it time to envoke the godwins law pardox?
Thought the irony of this one was superb.
http://i.imgur.com/lRIANQF.jpg

mashman

5th March 2014, 08:03

Fight. Fight! Fight?

"Moscow (AFP) - Russia could reduce to zero its economic dependency on the United States if Washington agreed sanctions against Moscow over Ukraine, a Kremlin aide said on Tuesday, warning that the American financial system faced a "crash" if this happened.

"We would find a way not just to reduce our dependency on the United States to zero but to emerge from those sanctions with great benefits for ourselves," said Kremlin economic aide Sergei Glazyev.

He told the RIA Novosti news agency Russia could stop using dollars for international transactions and create its own payment system using its "wonderful trade and economic relations with our partners in the East and South."

Russian firms and banks would also not return loans from American financial institutions, he said.

"An attempt to announce sanctions would end in a crash for the financial system of the United States, which would cause the end of the domination of the United States in the global financial system," he added.

He said that economic sanctions imposed by the European Union would be a "catastrophe" for Europe, saying that Russia could halt gas supplies "which would be beneficial for the Americans" and give the Russian economy a useful "impulse".

Glazyev has long been seen as among the most hawkish of the advisors to President Vladimir Putin but many observers have seen his hand in the apparent radicalisation of policy on Ukraine since the overthrow of president Viktor Yanukovych.

Economists have long mocked his apocalyptic and confrontational vision of global economics but also expressed concern that he appears to have grown in authority in recent months.

A high ranking Kremlin source told RIA Novosti that Glazyev was speaking in the capacity of an "academic" and his personal opinion did not reflect the official Kremlin policy.

Glazyev descrived the new Ukrainian authorities as "illegitimate and Russophobic", saying some members of the government were on lists of "terrorist organisations, they are criminals".

"If the authorities remain criminal then I think the people of Ukraine will get rid of them soon," he added." (http://news.yahoo.com/russia-warns-could-reduce-zero-economic-dependency-us-083926261.html?vp=1)

blue rider

5th March 2014, 09:28

Fight. Fight! Fight?

"Moscow (AFP) - Russia could reduce to zero its economic dependency on the United States if Washington agreed sanctions against Moscow over Ukraine, a Kremlin aide said on Tuesday, warning that the American financial system faced a "crash" if this happened. ......................

(http://news.yahoo.com/russia-warns-could-reduce-zero-economic-dependency-us-083926261.html?vp=1)

One does not win against Russia. First, it was tried before, and failed miserably. The bones of those who died like dogs in ditches are still precisely were they fell.

Second, Russia could very well live without the US, they have done so before. Europe on the other hand, is a big importer of Russian Gas....via the Ukraine. A couple of years ago, the Russians stopped the flow of natural gas for a while. Prices went up soaring....what else is new.

AS for Russia deciding not to pay any debts.....who would stop them?

Third the US telling others not to start wars on trumped up charges....priceless.

The Russians will do as the Russians do, Ukraine was always just so liberated from Russia. The Ukrainian Tartars would like to come back home from Exile in Uzbekisan (send there - those that survived under Stalin). The Ukrainian Russians would like to get the privileges back they had under Russian Occupation etc etc etc. And the rest of the Ukraine, especially the young ones would not mind joining the EU, if only to travel freely amongst the member states.

Luckily, Europe is heading into Summer. While there is a demand for natural gas, it is not quite as high as it would be were Father Frost standing in front of the door.

We are living in interesting times.

http://crookedtimber.org/2014/03/03/if-you-want-to-be-truly-pessimistic-about-the-ukraine-crisiss-geopolitical-consequences/

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ukraine-crisis-no-wonder-vladimir-putin-says-crimea-is-russian-9162734.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/maggiemcgrath/2014/03/03/russian-rate-hike-ukrainian-unrest-send-stocks-for-a-tumble/

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-26418664

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/02/kerry_on_russia_you_just_dont_invade_another_count ry_on_a_completely_trumped_up_pretext/

and a bit of history in Revolutions that were helped by the US, but never quite enough to actually succeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Spring
and then maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_uprising_in_Karbala

Brian d marge

5th March 2014, 13:19

How much exposure NZ has to all of this I don’t know

at a quick glance , it looks like NZ is in bed with both.

Not that it matters as on the grand scale NZ is not a game changer !

I would hate to live in America now

( and Im covering my backside in Japan just in case )

Stephen

Working in and riding a Honda since ages ago

Brian d marge

5th March 2014, 13:34

China cannot dump U.S. debt,
which could spook markets
and upset the U.S.
government,

:laugh:

bad bad bad china ya dont want to upset America or get in the way of the men with money

294516

Stephen

blue rider

6th March 2014, 06:51

stuff happens

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/climate-change-felt-deep-waters-antarctica-180949939/?no-ist

blue rider

6th March 2014, 07:19

fun read

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-catherine-great-invaded-crimea-and-put-rest-world-edge-180949969/

Banditbandit

6th March 2014, 07:56

“You just don’t invade another country on phony pretext in order to assert your interests,” - America says to Russia :facepalm:

:killingme Yeah ... the hypocrisy should choke them !!!

Akzle

6th March 2014, 08:21

hahahahahaha. Stupid Americunts.
http://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2014/03/judge_issues_ruling_in_teens_suit_against_parents. html
apparently kids have already tried suing for xbox and iphones and shit. I think they need a boot.
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100423203215/simpsons/images/4/43/Australia.png

avgas

6th March 2014, 08:39

stuff happenshttp://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/climate-change-felt-deep-waters-antarctica-180949939/?no-ist
So we have more frozen water therefore global warming.........clutching at straws comes to mind.

Or climate change is natural

hahahahahaha. Stupid Americunts.
http://www.nj.com/morris/index.ssf/2014/03/judge_issues_ruling_in_teens_suit_against_parents. html
apparently kids have already tried suing for xbox and iphones and shit. I think they need a boot.
If you don't have the cash you have to sell your ass lady.

Good news is she looks like something I would pay for. :innocent:

Akzle

6th March 2014, 08:55

Good news is she looks like something I would pay for. :innocent:

underage drinking and goes with a boy who's a bad influence.
Just needs an attitude tune up.

Up the ass, that is.

blue rider

8th March 2014, 09:51

interesting read

NCADAC Global Changes - Puplic Review Draft
as per Huffington Post

WASHINGTON -- From roads and bridges to power plants and gas pipelines, American infrastructure is vulnerable to the effects of climate change, according to a pair of government reports released Thursday.

The reports are technical documents supporting the National Climate Assessment, a major review compiled by 13 government agencies that the U.S. Global Change Research Program is expected to release in April. Scientists at the Department of Energy's Oak Ridge National Laboratory put together the reports, which warn that climate-fueled storms, flooding and droughts could cause "cascading system failures" unless there are changes made to minimize those effects.

large file to download but available chapter by chapter - link to a few below as per my pet interests

Water resources

http://ncadac.globalchange.gov/download/NCAJan11-2013-publicreviewdraft-chap3-water.pdf

Urban Systems

http://ncadac.globalchange.gov/download/NCAJan11-2013-publicreviewdraft-chap11-urban.pdf

Human Health
http://ncadac.globalchange.gov/download/NCAJan11-2013-publicreviewdraft-chap9-health.pdf

the report is expected to be released in April, but was fully released by Island Press...
http://islandpress.org/ip/books/series/NCA.html

Yes, I am still a hippy...:2thumbsup

Brian d marge

8th March 2014, 12:23

husaberg

8th March 2014, 13:13

ahh global warming and Russia

Thas why they raised the prices the mongrels

Most big power retailers are raising their prices to record levels within the next month, with some in the capital set to be hit with increases of up to 7 per cent. (http://Most big power retailers are raising their prices to record levels within the next month, with some in the capital set to be hit with increases of up to 7 per cent.)

Stephen

The local distribution networks in NZ(which quite a few are on the whole community owned)have been ordered to raise their cost model even if they currently operate below the industry model.
The exception is Auckland where they have been ordered to lower their model costs.

Akzle

8th March 2014, 13:59

The local distribution networks in NZ(which are on the whole community owned)have been ordered to raise there cost model even if they currently operate below the industry model.
The exception is Auckland where they have been ordered to lower their model costs.

pix or it didnt happen

husaberg

8th March 2014, 14:22

DS "You are on MIL" remember.
But the cat is feeling much betterer now thanks for asking............:killingme
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2596285/jasmine-blu-self-injury2-o.gif

mashman

8th March 2014, 21:33

Are we there yet?

Brian d marge

9th March 2014, 03:09

must spread the love , so off to spread the love

b in 5

Stephen

blue rider

10th March 2014, 08:30

Brian d marge

10th March 2014, 12:15

pissing match....or whatever?

india and china backing russia

http://darussophile.com/2014/03/russia-sees-ukraines-future-in-the-past/

http://blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2014/03/07/india-extends-hand-of-friendship-to-russia/

russia insisting in an agreement signed on Feb. 21st

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/846263.shtml#.UxiMZs7EH3u

US pissing in the wind and mesuring penises

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/us-president-barack-obamas-march-6-remarks-on-ukraine-video-transcript-338672.html

http://theswoop.net/ln_english/index.php

and then there is this

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/how-the-west-lost-putin-it-didnt-have-to-be-this-way/article17384414/?page=all

The move away from the dollar as the reserve currency , signalled that ( Pigs !)

They know America is in trouble

the stock market is being inflated by QE money, ( hows that tapering ! what goes up!)

What I dont know , is when and how much it will affect me and mine.

but one thing is for sure , Ya dont get in the way of the man and his money ! esp when there is 2 or 3 huge pipelines running through your country

The man from Russia he says Neyt !

Stephen

Brian d marge

10th March 2014, 12:46

oh and about electricity

http://sef.org.nz/papers/2012_Geoff_Bertram_Paper_20Jul12.pdf

must dash my Chinese class starts soon

Stephen

carbonhed

11th March 2014, 18:19

Quitting smoking? Your government is here to help.................

Yeah right! (http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/smoking-%28and-european-regulation%29-kills.aspx)

mashman

11th March 2014, 19:13

Quitting smoking? Your government is here to help.................

Yeah right! (http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/smoking-%28and-european-regulation%29-kills.aspx)

So much for choice huh... but we should trust them coz they know what's best. I'm sure the lung cancer rate has nothing to do with land mass v's population and amount of traffic on the roads. Nah, that'd be silly.

Ocean1

11th March 2014, 19:56

Quitting smoking? Your government is here to help.................

Yeah right! (http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/smoking-%28and-european-regulation%29-kills.aspx)

And EQUALLY interesting... http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/do-people-mind-more-about-inequality-than-poverty.aspx

bogan

11th March 2014, 20:11

And EQUALLY interesting... http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/do-people-mind-more-about-inequality-than-poverty.aspx

That's some damn good perspective.

"If you measure consumption inequality, it is far lower than pre-tax income inequality, because the top 40 per cent of earners pay more in than they get out, while the bottom 60 per cent get more out than they pay in. Indeed, in Britain the top 1 per cent generate about 30 per cent of the total income-tax haul. After such redistribution, the richest fifth of the population has only four times as much money to play with as the poorest fifth."

mashman

11th March 2014, 21:33

And EQUALLY interesting... http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog/do-people-mind-more-about-inequality-than-poverty.aspx

Awesome... we can look forwards to getting rid of inequality and poverty in the next, oh, despite all of that research there's no timeline. I love that they use statistics to draw factual conclusions. A man after my own heart.

Brian d marge

13th March 2014, 00:01

Snip
Genesis Energy's chairwoman, former prime minister Dame Jenny Shipley, and chief executive Albert Brantley came before the Commerce Select Committee in Parliament today, just weeks ahead of the company's partial float.

what does one say ....lost for words

Stephen

avgas

13th March 2014, 05:09

Ocean1

13th March 2014, 06:17

I love that they use statistics to draw factual conclusions.

That's what facts are, dude, if you don't got numbers you've just got opinions.

Numbers, for example demonstrate that western economic systems provide enough opportunities that absolute poverty is non existent, a distinction unmatched in human history. The UN had to invent a whole NEW IMPROVED meaning of poverty in order to be able to continue to believably blame them for having "poor" people.

mashman

13th March 2014, 07:19

Ocean1

13th March 2014, 08:12

So probability is fact?

In this case the fact is backed up by actual numbers.

I'd take opinions over number crunching everyday of the week please.

Which is why you're wrong about almost everything you believe.

Aye, best to calculate the probability instead of going out and checking by eye.

If you're on about that UN formula defining "poverty" then it's nothing to do with probability, it's just a piece of socialist bullshit.

Normal poverty exists though, it's not predominant by any means, but it exists. It needn't.

Of course it exists. In NZ it's a lifestyle choice the productive element of society pays dearly for, but y'know, just keep biting that hand, that'll fix it.

Banditbandit

13th March 2014, 08:42

avgas

13th March 2014, 08:48

The problem with statistics is intangibles can not be measured.

While I agree with all the stats, I recently had a lovely wake up call to what it was like to have no income, living off savings for 4 months, in a country with no benefits for people like me. While some may argue that being poor is a choice, I simply raise the point "does it matter?".

Sometimes empathy can be quite humbling. There is no measure for that. I hope it stays with me for a while. But I doubt it. Now I am back earning, I have to remind myself that others have it worse than I, and my life isn't that bad.

I suspect that forcing politicians to earn $40K/year would make an interesting perspective change.

Rich : "I pay my taxes, my debt to society is done"
Poor : "Why does society tax me?"
Really Poor : "They owe me this"

Neither is the right attitude. Does tax improve anything? I don't know.
But having a scaled tax system doesn't make any sense to me. Instead I recommend the opposite. Flat tax ABOVE a living wage.
Taxing below the living wage simply removes the incentive to work. Taxing more (multiple brackets) as you go simply removes the incentive to earn more.
What if we simply taxed people so they would earn enough to live? - and if they wanted to earn more, they pay the same rate up.

Would at-least stop the rich from trying to avoid extra tax, and the poor from claiming back the tax. Might even balance the equation?

bogan

13th March 2014, 09:20

mashman

13th March 2014, 10:10

In this case the fact is backed up by actual numbers.

Actual numbers? you mean it's a theory that has been accepoted as fact because the statistics used in the probability calculation came out at 51% or above right?

Which is why you're wrong about almost everything you believe.

No I'm not, not even close.

If you're on about that UN formula defining "poverty" then it's nothing to do with probability, it's just a piece of socialist bullshit.

Yeah, but the have factual numbers to back up their position and you've made it clear that facts are facts on that basis. Are you changing your opinion?

Of course it exists. In NZ it's a lifestyle choice the productive element of society pays dearly for, but y'know, just keep biting that hand, that'll fix it.

Awwww, poor NZ'ers, if only they knew.

mashman

13th March 2014, 10:12

Would at-least stop the rich from trying to avoid extra tax, and the poor from claiming back the tax. Might even balance the equation?

Instead of arsing around with complicated tax systems, why not do the obvious and implement a financial transaction tax. That way you can't dodge it.

bogan

13th March 2014, 10:14

Instead of arsing around with complicated tax systems, why not do the obvious and implement a financial transaction tax. That way you can't dodge it.

They could call it like a Goods and Services Tax or something right?

mashman

13th March 2014, 10:58

They could call it like a Goods and Services Tax or something right?

heh... no. I mean on every $ spent/received.

bogan

13th March 2014, 11:05

heh... no. I mean on every $ spent/received.

:facepalm: Just have a think about the implications to money velocity, cash usage, and distribution services...

mashman

13th March 2014, 11:23

:facepalm: Just have a think about the implications to money velocity, cash usage, and distribution services...

Cash? how outdated... and if you can't think of any way to deal with the usage of cash issues, then you really haven't thought it through and by then claiming that I haven't thought about the implications already is just you being, well, you.

mstriumph

13th March 2014, 11:26

That's what facts are, dude, if you don't got numbers you've just got opinions.

Numbers, for example demonstrate that western economic systems provide enough opportunities that absolute poverty is non existent, a distinction unmatched in human history. The UN had to invent a whole NEW IMPROVED meaning of poverty in order to be able to continue to believably blame them for having "poor" people.

My Grandfather was fond of saying "there are three classes of liars ... liars, damn liars and statistics" - wiser than most, he was. Should have been in politics but his parents were married.

From my own observation, no matter how pure your base data, how carefully collected, how systematically recorded, THERE IS NO STATISTICAL DATA that can't be twisted, pruned, obfuscated, and then presented in such a way as to 'prove' to the masses that a chestnut horse is actually a horse chestnut (that concept isn't original).

To the pure, all things are pure ... unfortunately to some out there 'fact' and 'truth' can be redefined at will to reflect whatever suits their current political or self-serving end.

bogan

13th March 2014, 11:29

Cash? how outdated... and if you can't think of any way to deal with the usage of cash issues, then you really haven't thought it through and by then claiming that I haven't thought about the implications already is just you being, well, you.

Oh, I'm sorry if you thought that was the start of the discussion, I was just pointing you in the right direction to get an education about things which you clearly have little to no basic understanding of.

bogan

13th March 2014, 11:30

My Grandfather was fond of saying "there are three classes of liars ... liars, damn liars and statistics" - wiser than most, he was. Should have been in politics but his parents were married.

From my own observation, no matter how pure your base data, how carefully collected, how systematically recorded, THERE IS NO STATISTICAL DATA that can't be twisted, pruned, obfuscated, and then presented in such a way as to 'prove' to the masses that a chestnut horse is actually a horse chestnut (that concept isn't original).

To the pure, all things are pure ... unfortunately to some out there 'fact' and 'truth' can be redefined at will to reflect whatever suits their current political or self-serving end.

Bah, that's just a line from people who would rather cling to their own opinions than do a little reading into the facts. Yeh stats can be twisted, but they can be untwisted just as easily for anyone with a bit of grey matter. Opinions on the other hand, just like arseholes; everyones got em, and most are full of shit

mashman

13th March 2014, 11:32

Oh, I'm sorry if you thought that was the start of the discussion, I was just pointing you in the right direction to get an education about things which you clearly have little to no basic understanding of.

:rofl:... so a bold statement with no foundation eh. How very scientific of you.

bogan

13th March 2014, 11:37

:rofl:... so a bold statement with no foundation eh. How very scientific of you.

I gave you ample chance to prove you had both the open-mindedness, and intelligence for such a discussion; your grade - pants on head retarded. You're simply not worthy of discussing things as equals; this may sound harsh to people just tuning in, but mashy is a guy who thinks we can fix foreign debt by selling million dollar hammers. Like I said, pants on head retarded.

mashman

13th March 2014, 11:57

I gave you ample chance to prove you had both the open-mindedness, and intelligence for such a discussion; your grade - pants on head retarded. You're simply not worthy of discussing things as equals; this may sound harsh to people just tuning in, but mashy is a guy who thinks we can fix foreign debt by selling million dollar hammers. Like I said, pants on head retarded.

Ahhhhh yes, you don't like what you hear so discount it without reason. Cool, I'll happily wear my pants on my head if the alternative is holding your close minded views. After all, you were the one claiming that there would be problems with an FTT, not me.

1. How would an FTT have a negative affect the velocity of money?
2. How would an FTT be circumvented by cash usage?
3. How would an FTT have a negative affect of distribution services?

1. The same money will still be spent on the same things.
2. You mean you can't check either remove physical currency from circulation (it will happen one day) or you can't compare the bank balance of those who have withdrawn money to spend and apply FTT to that amount? Coz the IRD don't bill people eh :facepalm:
3. The same money will still be spent on the same things.

Your turn... unless of course you do realise that you haven't thought anything through at all but moreover have stuck your thumb up your ass and filed an FTT in the too hard basket because some text book, or worse (a human being) told you that such things can't be achieved. What's with the negative waves Moriarty.

Brian d marge

13th March 2014, 12:54

But his parents were married hahahaha

He wasnt qualified enough or had to much morals to be a politician

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

bogan

13th March 2014, 13:06

Ahhhhh yes, you don't like what you hear so discount it without reason. Cool, I'll happily wear my pants on my head if the alternative is holding your close minded views. After all, you were the one claiming that there would be problems with an FTT, not me.

1. How would an FTT have a negative affect the velocity of money?
2. How would an FTT be circumvented by cash usage?
3. How would an FTT have a negative affect of distribution services?

1. The same money will still be spent on the same things.
2. You mean you can't check either remove physical currency from circulation (it will happen one day) or you can't compare the bank balance of those who have withdrawn money to spend and apply FTT to that amount? Coz the IRD don't bill people eh :facepalm:
3. The same money will still be spent on the same things.

Your turn... unless of course you do realise that you haven't thought anything through at all but moreover have stuck your thumb up your ass and filed an FTT in the too hard basket because some text book, or worse (a human being) told you that such things can't be achieved. What's with the negative waves Moriarty.

As transfers are taxed directly, so tax is proportional to money velocity, so it will slow it down, as people spend less often, in order to pay less tax and get more for their buck.
The govt has no way to tell how many transactions the cash money has gone through between withdrawal and deposit, so is unable to apply an FTT on steve buying jack's commodore so jack can buy hamish's falcon, who can then buy a sweet bike from a dealership with cash.
Every step in the supply chain now has to add value of at least the FTT, middle men will be circumvented wherever possible, because they do not add enough convenience in many case. Currently they are struggling with just the overheads of maintaining a local shop, forcing them to increase prices across the board is not going to allow them to remain competitive. Removal of middlemen is bad for resource useage, as middlemen do a lot more bulk shipping, than the one offs you get with direct to consumer transactions.

blue rider

13th March 2014, 17:03

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t1/p403x403/1948142_10152267163194604_1204096558_n.jpg

:girlfight:

mashman

13th March 2014, 17:04

As transfers are taxed directly, so tax is proportional to money velocity, so it will slow it down, as people spend less often, in order to pay less tax and get more for their buck.
The govt has no way to tell how many transactions the cash money has gone through between withdrawal and deposit, so is unable to apply an FTT on steve buying jack's commodore so jack can buy hamish's falcon, who can then buy a sweet bike from a dealership with cash.
Every step in the supply chain now has to add value of at least the FTT, middle men will be circumvented wherever possible, because they do not add enough convenience in many case. Currently they are struggling with just the overheads of maintaining a local shop, forcing them to increase prices across the board is not going to allow them to remain competitive. Removal of middlemen is bad for resource useage, as middlemen do a lot more bulk shipping, than the one offs you get with direct to consumer transactions.

Why are people going to spend less often? Surely that'll depend on the rate of tax applied, which in turn will depend on how wide ranging you make FTT?
I'm sure it won't be easy to track all cash transactions, but given that at some point that cash will be getting used to purchase stuff it will be caught at that point. A cashless society (not mine obviously) would allow for the cash transaction issue to be negated. Any cash removed from an account will be assumed to be paying for something being another extreme that could be implemented. In your example there's still GST being made when buyin hiz ride, which would also mean that an FTT could be applied instead.
Middlemen "suffering" may well be the case and I can't see why that'd be a huge downside (reckon Ocean would agree with that). Perhaps they'd move to meet the market, ya know, diversify, retrain, move to where the work is, get a real job :laugh:.

bogan

13th March 2014, 17:15

Why are people going to spend less often? Surely that'll depend on the rate of tax applied, which in turn will depend on how wide ranging you make FTT?
I'm sure it won't be easy to track all cash transactions, but given that at some point that cash will be getting used to purchase stuff it will be caught at that point. A cashless society (not mine obviously) would allow for the cash transaction issue to be negated. Any cash removed from an account will be assumed to be paying for something being another extreme that could be implemented. In your example there's still GST being made when buyin hiz ride, which would also mean that an FTT could be applied instead.
Middlemen "suffering" may well be the case and I can't see why that'd be a huge downside (reckon Ocean would agree with that). Perhaps they'd move to meet the market, ya know, diversify, retrain, move to where the work is, get a real job :laugh:.

As before, not a discussion, that is just where you should start if you wish to educate yourself. At least you're starting to think into a bit more now, in future try and do so more off your own initiative; and on this topic, think it through a bit further still, there is plenty of stuff online about why it is a bad idea to universally apply FTTs; in fact the wiki on the article gets you off to a good start right from the get-go "A financial transaction tax is a levy placed on a specific type of monetary transaction for a particular purpose"

mashman

13th March 2014, 17:18

As before, not a discussion, that is just where you should start if you wish to educate yourself. At least you're starting to think into a bit more now, in future try and do so more off your own initiative; and on this topic, think it through a bit further still, there is plenty of stuff online about why it is a bad idea to universally apply FTTs; in fact the wiki on the article gets you off to a good start right from the get-go "A financial transaction tax is a levy placed on a specific type of monetary transaction for a particular purpose"

Thanks Dad. I'm goin fushun.

bogan

13th March 2014, 17:25

Thanks Dad. I'm goin fushun.

Don't forget your water wings...

Brian d marge

13th March 2014, 18:20

We have a flat tax here in japan

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Brian d marge

13th March 2014, 19:04

Russians mayhave big stupid hats but they dont fk around
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzsZ_aDSGBY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

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Ocean1

13th March 2014, 19:21

Actual numbers? you mean it's a theory that has been accepoted as fact because the statistics used in the probability calculation came out at 51% or above right?

You didn't actually read the blog, did you? It wasn't anything to do with probability and there wasn't any theory discussed.

So wrong again.

No I'm not, not even close.

Being wrong about how wrong you are isn't unusual. Being continuously wrong about so many things in the face of overwhelming evidence about the factual vacuum you inhabit is a bit special though. I can only assume you practice a lot. Keep it up, you're on track to become the worlds largest source of anti-fact.

Yeah, but the have factual numbers to back up their position and you've made it clear that facts are facts on that basis. Are you changing your opinion?

The claim that there's a lot of poor people that rich people have somehow caused to be poor is an opinion. The UN, finding that their message was increasingly more difficult to believe decided to redefine "poor" using numbers.

That didn't make their message fact.

What the numbers did do is make the "poor" qualification transparent to analysis. The sort of analysis you'd have found in that blog, if you'd bothered to read it. As a result of which I don't think most literate people are any more convinced by their numerical description than they were about their previous opinion.

So no, no change of opinion is even vaguely indicated.

Awwww, poor NZ'ers, if only they knew.

I can assure you most of them are extremely aware of the cost.

Ocean1

13th March 2014, 19:22

We have a flat tax here in japan

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With a minimum threshold?

Ocean1

13th March 2014, 19:28

My Grandfather was fond of saying "there are three classes of liars ... liars, damn liars and statistics" - wiser than most, he was. Should have been in politics but his parents were married.

From my own observation, no matter how pure your base data, how carefully collected, how systematically recorded, THERE IS NO STATISTICAL DATA that can't be twisted, pruned, obfuscated, and then presented in such a way as to 'prove' to the masses that a chestnut horse is actually a horse chestnut (that concept isn't original).

To the pure, all things are pure ... unfortunately to some out there 'fact' and 'truth' can be redefined at will to reflect whatever suits their current political or self-serving end.

Yeah, it's a saying used mostly by people who don't like the implications of those statistics.

It ain't difficult to spot bullshit, even bikers aren't taken in by LTNZ or ACC data, the fact that so much relevant data isn't actually collected is a bit of a giveaway to start with, and the spin on what is collected is pretty obvious.

If in doubt get ALL of the numbers and run a few "what if's" yourself, it's not difficult.

Brian d marge

13th March 2014, 19:57

With a minimum threshold?

5% and a citizens tax dependent on your situation not percentage based and different city to city
Because i have family i dont pay very much and i get money back per child etc

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Ocean1

13th March 2014, 20:12

5% and a citizens tax dependent on your situation not percentage based and different city to city
Because i have family i dont pay very much and i get money back per child etc

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Interesting...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenharner/2012/10/21/japans-choice-shrink-the-welfare-state-or-collapse/

Brian d marge

13th March 2014, 22:10

Interesting...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenharner/2012/10/21/japans-choice-shrink-the-welfare-state-or-collapse/

Yes that right
The oldies . Just like in new zealand wont let the pension be cut
So japan will have to cash up
Us bond will have to be sold or...................... drum roll
Assets
And thats going to make a hell of a mess

They tried to privatise the post office about 5 year ago , went down like a ton of lead bricks and is still nationalised and over staffed and over paid

The japanese may just dump american debt, bonds and say sod ya

Or just keep printing money

In the 15 years ive been here the cost of living has increased about 1 or 2 percent not that much as one would notice

Ship may be sinking but it seems ok from steerage

Stephen

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mashman

13th March 2014, 22:16

Don't forget your water wings...

I caught a fish with wings.

mashman

13th March 2014, 22:35

You didn't actually read the blog, did you? It wasn't anything to do with probability and there wasn't any theory discussed.

So wrong again.

Yes I did... but we had moved on from the blog and were discussing facts backed by numbers.

:yawn:

Being wrong about how wrong you are isn't unusual. Being continuously wrong about so many things in the face of overwhelming evidence about the factual vacuum you inhabit is a bit special though. I can only assume you practice a lot. Keep it up, you're on track to become the worlds largest source of anti-fact.

Given your facts are nothing more than flakey models, definitions and calculations, I'll happily take the anti-fact crown.

The claim that there's a lot of poor people that rich people have somehow caused to be poor is an opinion. The UN, finding that their message was increasingly more difficult to believe decided to redefine "poor" using numbers.

That didn't make their message fact.

What the numbers did do is make the "poor" qualification transparent to analysis. The sort of analysis you'd have found in that blog, if you'd bothered to read it. As a result of which I don't think most literate people are any more convinced by their numerical description than they were about their previous opinion.

So no, no change of opinion is even vaguely indicated.

No, it's a fact. If there's a finite amount of money and rich people have most of it, then they are causing there to be poor people. I'm no fan of the UN, but there is poverty and in many parts of the world extreme poverty and it needs a voice, not feel good philanthropist charity from those with entitlement complexes.

Why not? You said as long as the numbers backed up a position that that position is fact. Make your mind up.

Why does anyone need to look at any numbers? There has been extreme poverty since forever. Band Aid, for me, was the first real glimpse into extreme poverty to me. That was 30 years ago. Why has that not changed? Go on, throw me the "but it's getting better" line. If we haven't sorted it after 30 years, it ain't gonna get sorted because there's no will to sort it. Unfortunately that's not for the want of individuals trying, but that in itself shows how preoccupied govts are with not addressing the problem is there's no money in it. It could be sorted within 5 years if we decided to do so. As I said, I'll take opinion, or direct observation in this case, as evidence over massaged numbers thanks.

I'd be surprised if you did... you're not the type.

I can assure you most of them are extremely aware of the cost.

Most? Is that a fact? pffft.

mstriumph

13th March 2014, 22:46

Bah, that's just a line from people who would rather cling to their own opinions than do a little reading into the facts. Yeh stats can be twisted, but they can be untwisted just as easily for anyone with a bit of grey matter. in my honest opinion those with no credible counter-argument invariably descend to personal abuse ... as you just have :tugger:

Opinions on the other hand, just like arseholes; everyones got em, and most are full of shit
thank you for your concise and incisive explanation of your post; nevertheless, I respect your opinion - I just don't like the way you've expressed it. 'Fraid I'm not prepared to descend to your level of 'debate' ... so play on without me, please.

mstriumph

13th March 2014, 22:52

Yeah, it's a saying used mostly by people who don't like the implications of those statistics. or perhaps those who can spot flim flam and misdirection at a thousand yards and are making a wry comment on the situation? I know that I personally fall into that category.

It ain't difficult to spot bullshit, even bikers aren't taken in by LTNZ or ACC data, the fact that so much relevant data isn't actually collected is a bit of a giveaway to start with, and the spin on what is collected is pretty obvious.

If in doubt get ALL of the numbers and run a few "what if's" yourself, it's not difficult. totally agree with you. Don't like the implication of 'even bikers' though ... think most of us are probably wiser than our fellows, if only for the swift and comprehensive 'take' we have to make of the changing situation surrounding us every moment we are riding?

Brian d marge

14th March 2014, 00:12

294849

Yeah Ms Nuland , Yo, I'll tell you what u want, what u really really want,
So tell me what you want, what you really really want,
I'll tell you what u want, what u really really want,
So tell me what you want, what you really really want,
u wanna, u wanna, u wanna, u wanna, u wanna really really really wanna the Ukraines oil .

Stephen

Ocean1

14th March 2014, 06:08

Yes I did... but we had moved on from the blog and were discussing facts backed by numbers.

Wrong.

Given your facts are nothing more than flakey models, definitions and calculations, I'll happily take the anti-fact crown.

Wrong

No, it's a fact. If there's a finite amount of money and rich people have most of it, then they are causing there to be poor people. I'm no fan of the UN, but there is poverty and in many parts of the world extreme poverty and it needs a voice, not feel good philanthropist charity from those with entitlement complexes.

Wrong

Why not? You said as long as the numbers backed up a position that that position is fact. Make your mind up.

Wrong

Why does anyone need to look at any numbers? There has been extreme poverty since forever. Band Aid, for me, was the first real glimpse into extreme poverty to me. That was 30 years ago. Why has that not changed? Go on, throw me the "but it's getting better" line. If we haven't sorted it after 30 years, it ain't gonna get sorted because there's no will to sort it. Unfortunately that's not for the want of individuals trying, but that in itself shows how preoccupied govts are with not addressing the problem is there's no money in it. It could be sorted within 5 years if we decided to do so. As I said, I'll take opinion, or direct observation in this case, as evidence over massaged numbers thanks.

So for you poverty only happened 30 years ago. Whereas in fact extreme poverty has been normal for almost every single human ever born. And as I've said before the single common feature for those that managed something different is a stable productive economy.

So you're completely unsupported opinion that we need to arsehole that economic model is demonstrated as... wrong.

I'd be surprised if you did... you're not the type.

Most? Is that a fact? pffft.

Must be getting exhausting grasping at straws. Just give up and drown, dude, the world would be a better place without your interminable whining.

Ocean1

14th March 2014, 06:12

or perhaps those who can spot flim flam and misdirection at a thousand yards and are making a wry comment on the situation? I know that I personally fall into that category.

Everyone believes they fit that description.

totally agree with you. Don't like the implication of 'even bikers' though ... think most of us are probably wiser than our fellows, if only for the swift and comprehensive 'take' we have to make of the changing situation surrounding us every moment we are riding?

See above.

mashman

14th March 2014, 06:42

So for you poverty only happened 30 years ago. Whereas in fact extreme poverty has been normal for almost every single human ever born. And as I've said before the single common feature for those that managed something different is a stable productive economy.

So you're completely unsupported opinion that we need to arsehole that economic model is demonstrated as... wrong.

That was when it was first highlighted to me in an absolutely in your face way. Fortunately I was 13 and could ignore it as the world was full of people who would actually address the problem. Ahhhhh, the naivety of youth, only matched by the naivety of you.

We'll see how unsupported it is in the coming years. You're a dying breed man, I hope you have the grace to do it in accordance with the majority.

Must be getting exhausting grasping at straws. Just give up and drown, dude, the world would be a better place without your interminable whining.

I know you don't like what you hear... doesn't make it any less of a truth though. :rofl:@giving up and whining, nah, I don't do Ocean.

mashman

14th March 2014, 06:43

Everyone believes they fit that description

Everyone? You're wrong.

bogan

14th March 2014, 10:38

in my honest opinion those with no credible counter-argument invariably descend to personal abuse ... as you just have :tugger:

thank you for your concise and incisive explanation of your post; nevertheless, I respect your opinion - I just don't like the way you've expressed it. 'Fraid I'm not prepared to descend to your level of 'debate' ... so play on without me, please.

Wtf, hypocrite much? I didn't insult you at all, I seriously believe stats can be untwisted with ease. So those who say they can't in order to cop out and not see their own opinions challenged; well they are clearly the ones with no credible counter argument. Because of that, opinions which are not well thought out, or based on facts and reasoning, are worth nothing.

mstriumph

14th March 2014, 11:01

Everyone believes they fit that description.

See above.

Ha! GOT YOU Mr Ocean ... presented with a personal insight and semi-conciliatory observation, you immediately retreat into dismissive generalities.

are you afraid to come out from behind your keyboard persona and converse on a personal give and take level? PLEASE don't make me think that you are here just for the conflict, just because you are angry and lose these arguments when engaging in them in meat space?
(hint - the classic answer to that is"so who CARES what YOU think, mstriumph?" - which would just prove my point, actually)

Honestly, there's so much defensive posturing on here already without us adding to it? At times it's like walking thru a sea of cold treacle in gumboots a size to big and no socks ... :facepalm:

mstriumph

14th March 2014, 11:15

Wtf, hypocrite much? I didn't insult you at all, I seriously believe stats can be untwisted with ease. So those who say they can't in order to cop out and not see their own opinions challenged; well they are clearly the ones with no credible counter argument. Because of that, opinions which are not well thought out, or based on facts and reasoning, are worth nothing.

:facepalm: sorry - didn't mean to give you the impression I was insulted, or offend you with what I said upfront was a personal opinion ... and I've already said I respect your opinion, just not the unfortunate way you have of expressing it.

I don't agree with it; I said so. I don't share your definition of 'facts' or 'reasoning'; I challenged it. Many people don't agree with lots of opinions expressed on here ... HTFU princess.

Let's agree on something ... life's short but we are alive and it's a good day to get out on the bike.

bogan

14th March 2014, 11:21

:facepalm: sorry - didn't mean to give you the impression I was insulted, or offend you with what I said upfront was a personal opinion ... and I've already said I respect your opinion, just not the unfortunate way you have of expressing it.

I don't agree with it; I said so. I don't share your definition of 'facts' or 'reasoning'; I challenged it. Many people don't agree with lots of opinions expressed on here ... HTFU princess.

Let's agree on something ... life's short but we are alive and it's a good day to get out on the bike.

You don't agree with it, but by no means have you challenged it :laugh:

Also, saying I descended to personal abuse, is claiming I insulted you, that is why you're a hypocrite; whether you feel insulted or not is of no relevance.

mstriumph

14th March 2014, 11:32

You don't agree with it, but by no means have you challenged it :laugh:

Also, saying I descended to personal abuse, is claiming I insulted you, that is why you're a hypocrite; whether you feel insulted or not is of no relevance.

:no:
I'm sure you're basically sound - most bikers are
see you out there sometime

mashman

14th March 2014, 15:14

The people of Christchurch v's the govt. (http://nz.finance.yahoo.com/news/southern-response-customers-discuss-class-action-191347345.html)... come on the people.

Ocean1

14th March 2014, 18:58

Ha! GOT YOU Mr Ocean ... presented with a personal insight and semi-conciliatory observation, you immediately retreat into dismissive generalities.

Was precisely as general as your comment. What's more it's true, everyone thinks their beliefs are true.

The biggest difference in the accuracy of their beliefs is between those who understand they're a rationalising animal and those who think they're a rational one.

are you afraid to come out from behind your keyboard persona and converse on a personal give and take level? PLEASE don't make me think that you are here just for the conflict, just because you are angry and lose these arguments when engaging in them in meat space?
(hint - the classic answer to that is"so who CARES what YOU think, mstriumph?" - which would just prove my point, actually)

Honestly, there's so much defensive posturing on here already without us adding to it? At times it's like walking thru a sea of cold treacle in gumboots a size to big and no socks ... :facepalm:

I don't have a keyboard persona, what you see is what you get.

Which is more than can be said for the previously mentioned stat's.

And the reason they don't have to be accurate in order to fulfil their purpose is because they're not aimed at those who know the details, they're aimed at all the rest. A comfortable majority of which already "know" these "facts" and find comfort in having them agree with their preconceptions.

Numbers aren't amenable to rationalising, and they're not useful in confirming preconceptions. Get the numbers.

Brian d marge

15th March 2014, 01:19

This cant be here , as this is the "stupid world " thread , and this bit is brillaint !

Snip:The Federal Reserve Banks pay interest on balances maintained to satisfy reserve balance requirements and on excess balances. The Board of Governors has prescribed rules governing the payment of interest by Federal Reserve Banks in Regulation D (Reserve Requirements of Depository Institutions, 12 CFR Part 204).

http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/reqresbalances.htm

so you can QE all ya want and it doesn’t inflate the money supply ( inflation) Also it has the effect of driving down the gold price ,

and or if the dollar stops being used as the world reserve currency , what would you need to trade , ,,,, gold backed trade notes of course

and if you bought gold when it was low ..........or have a jar of it on the shelf ...

Sheer genius

Stephen

Brian d marge

15th March 2014, 13:59

Snip

MRP chairwoman Joan Withers had earlier spoken about the impact the Labour-Greens New Zealand Power proposal had on the company's share price. The price had fallen by nearly 20 per cent since the Crown sold 49 per cent of the company, which was dual-listed on the NZX and ASX.
"There is no doubt the dominant impact by far has been the uncertainty around the New Zealand Power proposal which was announced in April . . . just weeks before our float," she said. "There was not a lot of time for analysts to conduct the appropriate level of analysis needed, or for the market to gain a really comprehensive understanding of the potential value impact of that policy."
Over the ensuing months, analysts were able to better evaluate the possible impact should a Labour-led government win the election, she said.

does she know something we dont know ?

Stephen

off to pay my sky tv , as world champion snooker is on

Brian d marge

16th March 2014, 02:38

Nice big wobbly points

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/XK31juzbw4w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Stephen

mashman

16th March 2014, 09:28

Noms, but no pipples yet no shrinkflation in either. I fuckin knew chocolate bars were getting smaller and it wasn't just because I had bigger hands or was losing my marbles.

Have some Clive Peedell and NHS malarky. (spoke to Mum the other week and she hasn't heard a thing about the NHS privatisation... even though she's a blue through and through). BBC fail. Disappointing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktNW7R58Gms

I found 9:34 - 10:12 particularly pertinent to NOW... ironically, but not unexpectedly, in direct contradiction to that which the current crop of financial economy supporters believe. I guess that must undermine their whole ideology. NOW = win.

blue rider

17th March 2014, 08:18

to TPP or not to TPP

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/on-the-wrong-side-of-globalization/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=1&

by this guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stiglitz

bogan

20th March 2014, 13:44

The only stupid thing about this one, is apparently kids getting taught the value of working is now newsworthy...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9849731/Kids-working-hard-for-the-money

mashman

20th March 2014, 15:35

The only stupid thing about this one, is apparently kids getting taught the value of working is now newsworthy...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9849731/Kids-working-hard-for-the-money

Nah, teaching them that that get anything at all for doing something is pretty fuckin stupid in the first place as they then go on to expect to be rewarded when they've done something. Tis how entitlement complexes are born, classic pavlovian response. Indoctrinate your kids at your own peril, coz you're turning them into future ignorant cunts. But that's just another way to look at it.

bogan

20th March 2014, 15:41

Nah, teaching them that that get anything at all for doing something is pretty fuckin stupid in the first place as they then go on to expect to be rewarded when they've done something. Tis how entitlement complexes are born, classic pavlovian response. Indoctrinate your kids at your own peril, coz you're turning them into future ignorant cunts. But that's just another way to look at it.

Um, entitlement complexes are when people feel entitled to something they have not earned; teaching them you are entitled only to what you have earned is a pretty good way to minimise those I would have though :scratch:

mashman

20th March 2014, 15:55

Um, entitlement complexes are when people feel entitled to something they have not earned; teaching them you are entitled only to what you have earned is a pretty good way to minimise those I would have though :scratch:

If that's what you have been taught? I rest my case. Because an entitlement complex to me is exactly what you have displayed. I did X therefore I am entitled to Y. If I say that you didn't deserve something, you will claim that you are entitled to it and justify that entitlement. I call what you call an entitlement complex as wanting stuff.

bogan

20th March 2014, 16:06

If that's what you have been taught? I rest my case. Because an entitlement complex to me is exactly what you have displayed. I did X therefore I am entitled to Y. If I say that you didn't deserve something, you will claim that you are entitled to it and justify that entitlement. I call what you call an entitlement complex as wanting stuff.

Nope, there is a difference between wanting stuff and believing you are entitled to it without doing anything to earn it. Those who want stuff but do not have an entitlement complex, will go and earn it. Those who feel entitled to something, will not see any need to go an earn it. That is the distinction you are missing.

What is wrong with somebody saying, I did this work now I expect to be paid? Bet you'd be fucking angry if your boss decided not to pay you one week and said you had an entitlement complex for even asking to be.

mashman

20th March 2014, 16:29

Nope, there is a difference between wanting stuff and believing you are entitled to it without doing anything to earn it. Those who want stuff but do not have an entitlement complex, will go and earn it. Those who feel entitled to something, will not see any need to go an earn it. That is the distinction you are missing.

What is wrong with somebody saying, I did this work now I expect to be paid? Bet you'd be fucking angry if your boss decided not to pay you one week and said you had an entitlement complex for even asking to be.

You're entitled to your opinion.

That's exactly what the govt do when they remove benefits. Hardly surprising they get angry, yet for some reason they have an entitlement complex.

bogan

20th March 2014, 17:07

That's exactly what the govt do when they remove benefits. Hardly surprising they get angry, yet for some reason they have an entitlement complex.

Except for benefits there is no earning part of the process, that is why the term entitlement complex is used.

mashman

20th March 2014, 17:19

Except for benefits there is no earning part of the process, that is why the term entitlement complex is used.

Isn't there? I'm sure there'll be a few hundred thousand beneficiaries who would disagree with you, but meh. It still isn't an entitlement complex. That's called support.

bogan

20th March 2014, 17:29

Isn't there? I'm sure there'll be a few hundred thousand beneficiaries who would disagree with you, but meh. It still isn't an entitlement complex. That's called support.

Earning and support are generally exclusive terms when used in a financial context, so no, they are not earning it; and for those who would disagree, that is the working definition of an entitlement complex, feeling they should be given what society thinks they have not earned (this is not to say they do not deserve it of course).

Also, there's no explicit contract. Of the three situations
1) children getting paid to do jobs
2) you getting paid for your job
3) beneficiaries getting paid for being in NZ
The first two have a prior contract the individual can accept or decline, and that only by fulfilling that contract will they get paid; the same does not apply to the latter . So if any of them is applicable for the term entitlement complex, it is also the latter and not the kids as you said before. Since the kids are just getting kiddy version of grown up contracts, it is a good thing for them to learn.

mashman

20th March 2014, 17:40

Earning and support are generally exclusive terms when used in a financial context, so no, they are not earning it; and for those who would disagree, that is the working definition of an entitlement complex, feeling they should be given what society thinks they have not earned (this is not to say they do not deserve it of course).

Also, there's no explicit contract. Of the three situations
1) children getting paid to do jobs
2) you getting paid for your job
3) beneficiaries getting paid for being in NZ
The first two have a prior contract the individual can accept or decline, and that only by fulfilling that contract will they get paid; the same does not apply to the latter . So if any of them is applicable for the term entitlement complex, it is also the latter and not the kids as you said before. Since the kids are just getting kiddy version of grown up contracts, it is a good thing for them to learn.

Did I say they were earning it? Try the past tense of earn. The working definition is fuckin stupid for the fuckin stupid.

It applies to both adults and kids. Simply, again, I have done therefore I should get. Teaching that shit as the norm ain't what I would call sound teaching, more opening a can of worms that you have no ability to close without being seen as a hypocrite. Something no adult, apart from me, is willing to face up to and own :D

bogan

20th March 2014, 17:48

Did I say they were earning it? Try the past tense of earn. The working definition is fuckin stupid for the fuckin stupid.

It applies to both adults and kids. Simply, again, I have done therefore I should get. Teaching that shit as the norm ain't what I would call sound teaching, more opening a can of worms that you have no ability to close without being seen as a hypocrite. Something no adult, apart from me, is willing to face up to and own :D

Actually you were questioning my wording, which was 'earning', present tense. Don't be mad mashy, life is what you make of it, so calm down and enjoy it a bit.

That is not it at all, it is if you do this, you will get this; so one does the thing and gets the thing. That is not an entitlement complex, that is just teaching a two party contract for mutual benefit; ie, how the world works.

Ocean1

20th March 2014, 17:58

mashman

20th March 2014, 18:11

Actually you were questioning my wording, which was 'earning', present tense. Don't be mad mashy, life is what you make of it, so calm down and enjoy it a bit.

That is not it at all, it is if you do this, you will get this; so one does the thing and gets the thing. That is not an entitlement complex, that is just teaching a two party contract for mutual benefit; ie, how the world works.

No I wasn't... but as it's you I'll explain. You said there was no earning in the process which ruled out there having been anything earned. I dare say the majority of beneficiaries have worked/contributed in their life. I'm not mad, well, not in the emotional sense anyway... shame not everyone gets the option of making what they want of their lives for one reason or another, and no, I don't land that squarely at their door. I'd love to calm down and enjoy it, but I'm such a miserable whiney cunt I just don't have it in me.

Aha, and there are many people who do without getting and there are those who do without expecting to get in this world too. You may have met a few without knowing, they're called people... you may have indulged in those types of contracts yourself. Mutual benefit is not a requirement, neither is reward... unless of course you educate people that that behaviour is the norm, which is silly.

bogan

20th March 2014, 18:19

No I wasn't... but as it's you I'll explain. You said there was no earning in the process which ruled out there having been anything earned. I dare say the majority of beneficiaries have worked/contributed in their life. I'm not mad, well, not in the emotional sense anyway... shame not everyone gets the option of making what they want of their lives for one reason or another, and no, I don't land that squarely at their door. I'd love to calm down and enjoy it, but I'm such a miserable whiney cunt I just don't have it in me.

Aha, and there are many people who do without getting and there are those who do without expecting to get in this world too. You may have met a few without knowing, they're called people... you may have indulged in those types of contracts yourself. Mutual benefit is not a requirement, neither is reward... unless of course you educate people that that behaviour is the norm, which is silly.

What in the actual fuck are you going on about now? Jesus christ you talk some shit in the interest of scoring points against money and anything it relates too. Honestly, and take this how you like, the stupidity in your arguments has made me less inclined to maintain an open mind towards moneyless utopian societies. If you goal here is actually to promote such, you should rethink how you do it because you're achieving the exact opposite.

bogan

20th March 2014, 18:20

Stop it, you're annoying the pig.

Hey, in my lofty title as 'betterer teachist than Ocean' I have a duty to throw information at pigs :innocent:

mashman

20th March 2014, 18:32

What in the actual fuck are you going on about now? Jesus christ you talk some shit in the interest of scoring points against money and anything it relates too. Honestly, and take this how you like, the stupidity in your arguments has made me less inclined to maintain an open mind towards moneyless utopian societies. If you goal here is actually to promote such, you should rethink how you do it because you're achieving the exact opposite.

Ok, so we're going there again. Build a bridge dood. Your post is even more amusing given that there was absolutely nothing in there that was related to NOW. PRICELESS. Sigh, again, it's not me that's achieving that as your post highlights, again. But by all means your perfectness, believe what you will believe because the probability of you deciding what I meant is much more likely than the probability of me deciding what I meant. :facepalm: Epic fail man... that really is pretty epic.

mashman

20th March 2014, 18:34

Hey, in my lofty title as 'betterer teachist than Ocean' I have a duty to throw information at pigs :innocent:

You call that shit you're flinging information? Curious.

bogan

20th March 2014, 18:37

Sigh, again, it's not me that's achieving that as your post highlights, again.

Which just highlights what I was saying, your propensity to blame anyone else where possible, only hampers your cause. You've obviously got a lot of rage pent up over it, just as obvious is how unlikely the changes you want are to happen, and that your own efforts are not helping that cause. It just seems quite illogical for you to work yourself up into a frenzy over this issue so often. Learn to live a bit, and learn to love the life you live.

Akzle

20th March 2014, 18:52

mashman

20th March 2014, 18:59

Which just highlights what I was saying, your propensity to blame anyone else where possible, only hampers your cause. You've obviously got a lot of rage pent up over it, just as obvious is how unlikely the changes you want are to happen, and that your own efforts are not helping that cause. It just seems quite illogical for you to work yourself up into a frenzy over this issue so often. Learn to live a bit, and learn to love the life you live.

Ugh :facepalm:... funny, I don't think those who know me would describe me as a blame apportioning raging pent up illogical frenzied non-living non life loving person. But you know best. There's a hint for you in the four words of that last sentence. Your choice whether you choose to see things that way. Oooo, another sentence full of hint.

My own "efforts" have a better success than failure ratio. But you don't have to believe that either. Damn, I just can't stop dropping sentences with hints.

mashman

20th March 2014, 19:00

bogan

20th March 2014, 19:01

i would love to put you three in a room. With ed and hitcher.
Mashy gets a quarter pike. Ocean... A million dollars (legal tender)
bogan, 4 ft of lead pipe
hitcher gets an uzi (israeli made :p) and ed... Well, hes just there for my amusement.

Cmon, you can do better than that.
mashy gets a helmet made of pants
ocean, I actually think you got that one about right
I need something robotic, maybe one of them rabbit thingos just for lols
hitcher gets a case full of oxford dictionaries
Ed definitely gets a flat battery

bogan

20th March 2014, 19:02

My own "efforts" have a better success than failure ratio.

Not online they don't, maybe you should think on that.

mashman

20th March 2014, 19:10

Not online they don't, maybe you should think on that.

Why? coz you say so? You don't think that even one person changing their own mind based on any ideas put forwards is worth it?

I'll let you into a secret that I was hoping you'd pick up on, ME having success is not my success. ME having failure is not my failure. There are other people involved in the equation. Those other people have every single ounce of power in that equation. NOW let that ruminate and we'll see what appears next.

mashman

20th March 2014, 19:12

Cmon, you can do better than that.
mashy gets a helmet made of pants
ocean, I actually think you got that one about right
I need something robotic, maybe one of them rabbit thingos just for lols
hitcher gets a case full of oxford dictionaries
Ed definitely gets a flat battery

Can I have a D on my pants and make them pointy like as if I was getting excited about utopia like.

bogan

20th March 2014, 19:18

Why? coz you say so? You don't think that even one person changing their own mind based on any ideas put forwards is worth it?

I'll let you into a secret that I was hoping you'd pick up on, ME having success is not my success. ME having failure is not my failure. There are other people involved in the equation. Those other people have every single ounce of power in that equation. NOW let that ruminate and we'll see what appears next.

You need a vast majority to make NOW a thing, to convince one at the expense of two being turned off the idea, well I wouldn't call that a success by any stretch of the imagination. You might, in which case I have no worries about a NOW uprising ever occurring.

mashman

20th March 2014, 19:28

You need a vast majority to make NOW a thing, to convince one at the expense of two being turned off the idea, well I wouldn't call that a success by any stretch of the imagination. You might, in which case I have no worries about a NOW uprising ever occurring.

I know a majority would be needed. The funny thing is, where I may fail (we'll use your terminology as you seem more comfortable with it), so where I may fail, perhaps one of those where I have succeeded will have better luck. Like gay people eventually being allowed to get married because a majority came around to the idea, these things take time. I'm in no rush. I have no ego to be bruised. I am fully aware that you are the only person that is capable of changing your mind. I would most definitely call 1 in 3 a success given how "new" the idea is to some. Fortunately there are many already out there who have already thought these things through, I know, I've met them as individuals. So you might have more to worry about than you think, then again, we may never find out... which'd be a bummer in ways.

Akzle

20th March 2014, 19:43

I need something robotic, maybe one of them rabbit thingos just for lols

what are you?? A grease monkey, or a fucking woman?!
( http://www.picobong.com/en/product-detail.php?id=27 )

bogan

20th March 2014, 19:43

I know a majority would be needed. The funny thing is, where I may fail (we'll use your terminology as you seem more comfortable with it), so where I may fail, perhaps one of those where I have succeeded will have better luck. Like gay people eventually being allowed to get married because a majority came around to the idea, these things take time. I'm in no rush. I have no ego to be bruised. I am fully aware that you are the only person that is capable of changing your mind. I would most definitely call 1 in 3 a success given how "new" the idea is to some. Fortunately there are many already out there who have already thought these things through, I know, I've met them as individuals. So you might have more to worry about than you think, then again, we may never find out... which'd be a bummer in ways.

But what if the two you turned off the idea, what if they do the same? I know I'm only too happy to point out the flaws in NOW and other systems like it.

bogan

20th March 2014, 19:45

what are you?? A grease monkey, or a fucking woman?!
( http://www.picobong.com/en/product-detail.php?id=27 )

Well, I mean you could give me a proper robot, but I thought the whole point was to take the piss...

Akzle

20th March 2014, 19:50

I thought the whole point was to take [ a ] piss...

oh stop. Youll get mashy even more excited.

mashman

20th March 2014, 19:57

But what if the two you turned off the idea, what if they do the same? I know I'm only too happy to point out the flaws in NOW and other systems like it.

[trying to be sensible and honest post]

That could be the case. All I know is that those of us who have been in the capitalist/financial system and have changed our minds in favour of a NOW or similar, can never look at the capitalist/financial system again. I wish I could explain that to ya, but honestly you have to convince yourself before anyone can convince you. I have been where you are, obviously not exactly, but 6+ years ago I would have defended the capitalist/financial system against a NOW and likely on the same grounds as yourself.

Now whilst that may not be strictly true (as I truly don't remember who I was 6+ years ago), I did use many of the arguments put that the "anti" crowd put forwards against those who suffer at its hands. I don't any more and only do so in sarcasm, sometimes I get blinged for it (one of life's little pleasures), in fact it's not so much that I don't anymore, it is that given what I now understand, I can't. I've done the capitalist thing and have come to realise just how futile it is when the goal is supposed to be human beings getting better at things. We're quite obviously not on the whole.

The only thing I would change in those 37 years a capitalist, is that I would wish that I had have gone balls out to make a fuckload of cash and then come to exactly the same point 6 years ago. Meh, that ship has sailed......... maybe. I honestly wish you could understand why "we" can't look at the system the same again, but it is you that has to change your mind. It is you that decides that it can or can't happen.

[/trying to be sensible and honest post]

bogan

20th March 2014, 20:44

[trying to be sensible and honest post]

That could be the case. All I know is that those of us who have been in the capitalist/financial system and have changed our minds in favour of a NOW or similar, can never look at the capitalist/financial system again. I wish I could explain that to ya, but honestly you have to convince yourself before anyone can convince you. I have been where you are, obviously not exactly, but 6+ years ago I would have defended the capitalist/financial system against a NOW and likely on the same grounds as yourself.

Now whilst that may not be strictly true (as I truly don't remember who I was 6+ years ago), I did use many of the arguments put that the "anti" crowd put forwards against those who suffer at its hands. I don't any more and only do so in sarcasm, sometimes I get blinged for it (one of life's little pleasures), in fact it's not so much that I don't anymore, it is that given what I now understand, I can't. I've done the capitalist thing and have come to realise just how futile it is when the goal is supposed to be human beings getting better at things. We're quite obviously not on the whole.

The only thing I would change in those 37 years a capitalist, is that I would wish that I had have gone balls out to make a fuckload of cash and then come to exactly the same point 6 years ago. Meh, that ship has sailed......... maybe. I honestly wish you could understand why "we" can't look at the system the same again, but it is you that has to change your mind. It is you that decides that it can or can't happen.

[/trying to be sensible and honest post]

You changing your mind for your own reasons doesn't extend to anyone else though. The surety you have in the idea is not borne out in the arguments you make for it; it's going to be near impossible to go from a minority acceptance to a required majority without being able to make compelling arguments. Even worse than that, is an exhibited lack of understanding into how the current system works. That's what I see, that's what many others see, and time alone won't change those things. We have no motivation to convince ourselves of anything other than what we already believe, it is up to the system's proponents to do the convincing in leu of that motivation, and they just don't have what it takes.
Basically, I see more zealotry than reason in the arguments for NOW, and that's not something I want being applied to the country as a whole.

mashman

20th March 2014, 21:41

You changing your mind for your own reasons doesn't extend to anyone else though. The surety you have in the idea is not borne out in the arguments you make for it; it's going to be near impossible to go from a minority acceptance to a required majority without being able to make compelling arguments. Even worse than that, is an exhibited lack of understanding into how the current system works. That's what I see, that's what many others see, and time alone won't change those things. We have no motivation to convince ourselves of anything other than what we already believe, it is up to the system's proponents to do the convincing in leu of that motivation, and they just don't have what it takes.
Basically, I see more zealotry than reason in the arguments for NOW, and that's not something I want being applied to the country as a whole.

It does in that others have changed their mind for their reasons. The reasons may well be different, but the goal is the same. As I've said, you put up your own roadblocks, it wouldn't matter how I explained it to you as I'm not the one to explain it to you because you can't get past me. You have said yourself that the idea has merit and that it is my fault that you are moving further away from the idea. Yet you refuse to accept that is it you that's pushing away from the idea because of me. Moderately amusing to say the least, moronic at best. Lack of understanding eh, in that I don't know everything about the system sure (who does?), in that I don't know where money comes from and what it really represents in the lives of people, I call bullshit on your high brow analysis. You hanging on to that as another reason to push back is highly amusing.

Hang on a minute. You're saying that you need to be convinced by others in order to make your own mind up? Grow a pair. Seriously, grow a pair. Tis one of the more weak and pathetic whimpering fears I ditched a while ago. It's up to you to think what you choose to think, it's up to you to motivate yourself, but make no mistake, it is you that's teaching yourself and it is you that motivates yourself, not those who are professing to be teaching you and not those offering you incentives. :killingme@zealotry jesus christ that's fuckin hilarious, you have no idea. Thanks for that.

You see what you see. Please see my avatar, it's speaking to you.

bogan

20th March 2014, 22:10

It does in that others have changed their mind for their reasons. The reasons may well be different, but the goal is the same. As I've said, you put up your own roadblocks, it wouldn't matter how I explained it to you as I'm not the one to explain it to you because you can't get past me. You have said yourself that the idea has merit and that it is my fault that you are moving further away from the idea. Yet you refuse to accept that is it you that's pushing away from the idea because of me. Moderately amusing to say the least, moronic at best. Lack of understanding eh, in that I don't know everything about the system sure (who does?), in that I don't know where money comes from and what it really represents in the lives of people, I call bullshit on your high brow analysis. You hanging on to that as another reason to push back is highly amusing.

Hang on a minute. You're saying that you need to be convinced by others in order to make your own mind up? Grow a pair. Seriously, grow a pair. Tis one of the more weak and pathetic whimpering fears I ditched a while ago. It's up to you to think what you choose to think, it's up to you to motivate yourself, but make no mistake, it is you that's teaching yourself and it is you that motivates yourself, not those who are professing to be teaching you and not those offering you incentives. :killingme@zealotry jesus christ that's fuckin hilarious, you have no idea. Thanks for that.

You see what you see. Please see my avatar, it's speaking to you.

Zealotry again, the roadblock/motivation arguments are bullshit, as I could equally say you put up roadblocks and lack motivation to accepting the reality of the financial system, it's just a useless ad-hominem that wastes time and makes you look foolish. All I use is logic and reason; stop trying to make this personal and accept that my opinion is justified based on those grounds. You've said the countries external debt could be eliminated by selling million dollar hammers, you've said increasing GDP is the same as money laundering; these are pants-on-head-retarded things to say, nobody with such a profound lack of understanding in the way things currently work should have any say at all into the way things should work.

I have chosen what to think, why can you not grasp that my reasoned choice is different from yours? If you assert mine is wrong and want to change it, then offer up some reasoning. You've tried, you don't have any; so you fall back on zealotry, anger, and ad-hominems, that is how you further damage your cause.

I think most of us find great irony in your avatar (as we do with the thread title), because your mind-blindness seems to equate enlightenment with anti-govt and anti-money; instead of with logic and reason.

The only thing I would change in those 37 years a capitalist, is that I would wish that I had have gone balls out to make a fuckload of cash and then come to exactly the same point 6 years ago.

Also, on the topic of irony, you're now against capitalism but wish you had worked harder and made more money? :scratch:

mashman

20th March 2014, 22:38

Zealotry again, the roadblock/motivation arguments are bullshit, as I could equally say you put up roadblocks and lack motivation to accepting the reality of the financial system, it's just a useless ad-hominem that wastes time and makes you look foolish. All I use is logic and reason; stop trying to make this personal and accept that my opinion is justified based on those grounds. You've said the countries external debt could be eliminated by selling million dollar hammers, you've said increasing GDP is the same as money laundering; these are pants-on-head-retarded things to say, nobody with such a profound lack of understanding in the way things currently work should have any say at all into the way things should work.

I have chosen what to think, why can you not grasp that my reasoned choice is different from yours? If you assert mine is wrong and want to change it, then offer up some reasoning. You've tried, you don't have any; so you fall back on zealotry, anger, and ad-hominems, that is how you further damage your cause.

I think most of us find great irony in your avatar (as we do with the thread title), because your mind-blindness seems to equate enlightenment with anti-govt and anti-money; instead of with logic and reason.

Also, on the topic of irony, you're now against capitalism but wish you had worked harder and made more money? :scratch:

So, all about me again along with misquotes and removal of context :facepalm:

I have grasped that, it's you that hasn't grasped that I have. You have been offered reason and logic and you have refused the system due to lack of information. See, I get it. :yawn: go project your faults elsewhere.

No, you're saying anti-govt (NOW has a govt), anti-money (NOW uses money, just differently), I have offered logic and reason and you didn't like it. Look, whatever fictions you choose to tell yourself about what you think you know about NOW is fine. It makes no odds to me.

Yes.

I spray, I walk away.

Brian d marge

20th March 2014, 23:06

Receiving without guilt and giving without want are very hard to do

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Brian d marge

20th March 2014, 23:16

And yes in england back in the day there was no property ownership , same with maori
Money and all of it vices didnt exist
Bring on ww3 i need to do some shopping

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

unstuck

21st March 2014, 07:43

Stupid humans....:whistle: http://truththeory.com/2014/03/17/swiss-to-pay-basic-income-2500-francs-per-month-to-every-adult/

Stupid humans......https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t1.0-9/149234_10152255236198908_1356811781_n.jpg

bogan

21st March 2014, 10:04

Look, whatever fictions you choose to tell yourself about what you think you know about NOW is fine.

Why the continued zealotry? I've looked at the facts just as you have, why do you class my interpretations as fictions, as yours as right? It's not a very open-minded way to approach the discussion.

mashman

21st March 2014, 11:54

Stupid humans....:whistle: http://truththeory.com/2014/03/17/swiss-to-pay-basic-income-2500-francs-per-month-to-every-adult/

Stupid humans.....

http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/religion-money_for_nothing-catch-money_bag-hand_from_heaven-cynic-jfa0158l.jpg

unstuck

21st March 2014, 12:05

http://www.panicposters.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/f63dc5ec28f3175f8a7f615bd217eb71/p/p/pp896cashlp1341.jpg

unstuck

22nd March 2014, 06:41

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/20/the-truth-is-finally-out-money-is-just-an-iou-the-banks-are-rolling-in-it/

:weird::whistle:

mashman

22nd March 2014, 07:28

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/03/20/the-truth-is-finally-out-money-is-just-an-iou-the-banks-are-rolling-in-it/

:weird::whistle:

I am entitled to whatever I believe I have worked for. I don't care what the banks do or how they do it, they must maintain my lifestyle... and we can always blame the poor <_<

Happy 2014 unstuck :niceone:

unstuck

22nd March 2014, 07:32

Happy 2014 unstuck :niceone:

Likewise.:devil2:

blue rider

22nd March 2014, 20:34

stuff

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2014/03/21-4

unstuck

24th March 2014, 06:20

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1.0-9/559930_258902080949275_1033286300_n.jpg

blue rider

24th March 2014, 17:35

housing US of A Edition, the same as the NZ Edition

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/housing-one-chart-says-it-all/

mashman

24th March 2014, 18:48

housing US of A Edition, the same as the NZ Edition

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/housing-one-chart-says-it-all/

Ach that's just merca. It'll never happen here.

Akzle

24th March 2014, 20:39

housing US of A Edition, the same as the NZ Edition

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/21/housing-one-chart-says-it-all/

happy happy love love.
Niggaz better invest in a caravan. When the metaphorical s h t f, gonna want one.
Also. Get away from townies, cyclists, and suv owners.

blue rider

27th March 2014, 19:27

The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire 103rd Anniversary

http://www.commondreams.org/further/2014/03/25-0

https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=triangle+fire+1911&rlz=1C1CHLI_en-gbNZ474NZ475&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=z9EzU9vNKMb4kgWZp4GgDw&ved=0CCgQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=898&dpr=0.9

“This is not the first time girls have been burned alive in the city. Every week I must learn of the untimely death of one of my sister workers. Every year thousands of us are maimed. The life of men and women is so cheap and property is so sacred. There are so many of us for one job, it matters little if 146 of us are burned to death.

Bangladesh 2012, New York 1911

stupid world indeed

Brian d marge

27th March 2014, 23:51

happy happy love love.
Niggaz better invest in a caravan. When the metaphorical s h t f, gonna want one.
Also. Get away from townies, cyclists, and suv owners.

When SHTF im going shopping

Stephen

Brian d marge

28th March 2014, 00:47

The IMF Roxs
Snip:
A cut in energy subsidies to consumers has been one of the conditions of an international rescue deal and on Wednesday Ukraine's interim government agreed to raise domestic gas prices by 50% in its effort to secure the IMF aid package.

hey why don’t we sell the assets , and use market forces , or how about that tired old formula for lending money , you know the one , the one that Bolivia didnt want ! http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/14/business/worldbusiness/14iht-water.html?pagewanted=all

:niceone:

If they want me to pull the plow , I will pull the plow . If they want me to work down the mines , I will go. Just dont lie to me as that pisses me off ....

Stephen

avgas

28th March 2014, 01:52

The Triangle Shirtwaist Fire 103rd Anniversary
http://www.commondreams.org/further/2014/03/25-0
https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=triangle+fire+1911&rlz=1C1CHLI_en-gbNZ474NZ475&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=z9EzU9vNKMb4kgWZp4GgDw&ved=0CCgQsAQ&biw=1600&bih=898&dpr=0.9
Bangladesh 2012, New York 1911
stupid world indeed
Greymouth

Auckland

If you have a look in NZ we have had the same incidents happen there year after year. I know because both were very personal to me. In some areas of NZ we are working people literally to the bone.

Akzle

28th March 2014, 05:49

In some areas of NZ we are working people literally to the bone.

courtney place? Kay-ranga-happy road? Pretty much every female in the waikato?

avgas

28th March 2014, 06:15

courtney place? Kay-ranga-happy road? Pretty much every female in the waikato?
Unfortunately pun is not intended in this instance. People are being killed in very non-funny ways. (at work).

Our OSH and its appointed police have a lot of work to do before I will consider them useful. To many preventable deaths, and unsafe workplaces/work practices.

blue rider

28th March 2014, 07:23

Unfortunately pun is not intended in this instance. People are being killed in very non-funny ways. (at work).

Our OSH and its appointed police have a lot of work to do before I will consider them useful. To many preventable deaths, and unsafe workplaces/work practices.

These two incidents that I have listed were not preventable by OSH inspections but by the Owners of the Factories not locking the doors.
In both cases, workers could not escape the fire because the exits were locked and or blocked.

But lets not have Unions that would argue for better working conditions. Lets have OSH, manned by some ex Manager from the Free Enterprise Institute or some such thing. Because Unions are evil and job destroying.

As for NZ, Mining / Logging comes to mind, where the only ones concerned about workplace safety are the workers. The bosses are just concerned that one might leave before the bell rings.

There are so many of us for one job, it matters little if 146 of us are burned to death. So true for our times.

avgas

28th March 2014, 08:34

These two incidents that I have listed were not preventable by OSH inspections but by the Owners of the Factories not locking the doors.
In both cases, workers could not escape the fire because the exits were locked and or blocked.
But lets not have Unions that would argue for better working conditions. Lets have OSH, manned by some ex Manager from the Free Enterprise Institute or some such thing. Because Unions are evil and job destroying.
As for NZ, Mining / Logging comes to mind, where the only ones concerned about workplace safety are the workers. The bosses are just concerned that one might leave before the bell rings.
So true for our times.
Yeah Nah.
Unions themselves are double edge swords. Kinda like politicians. I am sure there are good, hardworking, honest politicians who want to improve things........and then there are the ones whom get pushed to the top of the heap and into the tin.
Union bosses are much the same. In the good old days - a union boss was a fellow worker. Now days they are just employed beneficiaries. They don't face 1/10000 of what the workers are facing - they just shout the loudest because they can afford to.

I have been called a scab, by people whom have never REALLY worked a day in their lives. If they can't have respect for me trying to earn to live, while they mooch off the pleas of the many........lets just say I flush more important things down the toilet. Usually with more consistency also.

Want to improve workers conditions.....try talking the workers. They usually only ask you satisfy basic needs. Unions may argue for better working conditions, but rarely to they understand what "Better" means. It's usually not money, and their is a bunch of research to prove that.
Now if a worker is protesting........you can bet your bottom dollar there is a need not being met........not a want.

Most OSH people (in NZ) are actually good folk. Problem is they are few and far between. They don't want to shut people down, they don't want people fired. They just want basic needs met. But if your stretched for time/resources.....what are you going to do?
Most trade based people are concerned about OSH, but the problem exists that there is no one slamming employers - even when they get caught. That is the governments job, and they are failing.

We shouldn't copy anyones model for how NZ should be run, instead we should be making a hybrid of all the good parts and making that work. From what I see the following would be a good starting point:
- Unions ONLY filled with workers, for the workers, subsidies through unemployment funds. (Preventative Unemployment is what you could call it)
- OSH funding/power to force workers to be paid while situations are fixed at companies expense
- OSH fines to re-emburse affected employees and their next of kin. This includes all failures under H&S.
- Government initiatives for improving H&S in the workplace. (not just adverts on TV - but actual scholarship funds that fix problems).

Basically roll things back 40 years.

Ocean1

28th March 2014, 16:17

Most OSH people (in NZ) are actually good folk.

Most OSH people I've met are dead ringers for those union bosses, Drones with no idea at all about cost - benefit ratios. In fact the industry's training material specifically forbids any attempt at costing safety initiatives.

Drones cause people to receive a formal warning if spotted descending stairs not holding the handrail.

Another for failing to have a lid on your hot coffee.

Another for rolling up the sleeves of your overalls. :facepalm:

Basically roll things back 40 years.

Yup, you could take NZ Marine dept advice about safety seriously, it was specific and well disseminated, which is more than you can say for today's moronic "we're not experts in your industry so we can't be expected to advise you, but if someone ends up hurt we'll see you in court".

How can anyone take that lot seriously?

Brian d marge

29th March 2014, 12:44

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/re-nationalise-gas-and-electricity/?state=thanks (https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/re-nationalise-gas-and-electricity/?state=thanks)

I thought this was a bad idea? The competition would drive down the prices and we would all benefit

Oh silly me !

Stephen

avgas

29th March 2014, 14:51

Most OSH people I've met are dead ringers for those union bosses, Drones with no idea at all about cost - benefit ratios. In fact the industry's training material specifically forbids any attempt at costing safety initiatives.
Drones cause people to receive a formal warning if spotted descending stairs not holding the handrail.
Another for failing to have a lid on your hot coffee.
Another for rolling up the sleeves of your overalls.
Sounds like you had an unfortunate run with them. The guys I dealt with were mainly electrically and mechanically trained.

Now the guys I dealt with in Aussie. Those fuckers were scary. Basically turned into a pissing contest and I felt very lucky that I won. (Could have ended up all closed before it went to court......they can do that kinda shit). Really stupid too. Your coffee would have been thrown out a window incase it burned someone, and they would have shot you in the knee caps to prevent you from trying it again. Scary Morons there.

mashman

2nd April 2014, 12:55

Don't change the currency as they've got you by the balls (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/odd/22170602/icelander-goes-into-currency-cyberspace-central-bank-frowns/)... instead, use the one that exists and reevaluate how you use it in regards to then effort expended by your population.

Oscar

2nd April 2014, 13:14

mashman

2nd April 2014, 13:20

Yeah - use a virtual currency.
You can buy virtual goods and services with it...

Like bitcoin, oh, hang on..............

Oscar

2nd April 2014, 13:31

Like bitcoin, oh, hang on..............

Yeah, Bitcoin - it lost 38% against the US$ this year.

http://qz.com/193931/bitcoin-looks-like-the-worst-investment-in-the-world-this-year/#193931/bitcoin-looks-like-the-worst-investment-in-the-world-this-year/

But that's OK, coz the US IRS says that the Bitcoin isn't currency, it's property...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/66fcba86-b9c1-11e3-957a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2xgjIeRhN

One implication of treating virtual currencies as property is that users would be expected to report gains or losses for the purposes of capital gains tax even if they were using it to buy goods and services in the real economy.

“This ends a couple of Bitcoin mythologies,” says Steven Englander, a currency strategist at Citigroup. “The Bitcoin libertarian epoch is pretty much over. Keeping transactions and paying capital gains (and even ordinary income taxes) is about as much inside the system as you can get.”

Yup, those Icelanders are on to a winner alright.

mashman

2nd April 2014, 13:49

Yeah, Bitcoin - it lost 38% against the US$ this year.

http://qz.com/193931/bitcoin-looks-like-the-worst-investment-in-the-world-this-year/#193931/bitcoin-looks-like-the-worst-investment-in-the-world-this-year/

But that's OK, coz the US IRS says that the Bitcoin isn't currency, it's property...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/66fcba86-b9c1-11e3-957a-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2xgjIeRhN

Yup, those Icelanders are on to a winner alright.

It buys non-virtual stuff and it still has financial value.

Meh, they can call it what they like, they're doing it wrong anyway.

I guess we'll wait and see whether they adopt it.

Oscar

2nd April 2014, 13:53

It buys non-virtual stuff and it still has financial value.

Meh, they can call it what they like, they're doing it wrong anyway.

I guess we'll wait and see whether they adopt it.

Yeah, it buys 40% less than it did 90 days ago.

mashman

2nd April 2014, 14:00

Yeah, it buys 40% less than it did 90 days ago.

And how many percent more than than it did when it began? As opposed to our "natural" currency's which buy less, right?

Oscar

2nd April 2014, 14:09

And how many percent more than than it did when it began? As opposed to our "natural" currency's which buy less, right?

Whatever it was worth when it began will mean nought to the poor bastid that bought his in Dec 2013.
When was the last time our currency depreciated 40% in 90 dyas?

mashman

2nd April 2014, 16:00

Whatever it was worth when it began will mean nought to the poor bastid that bought his in Dec 2013.
When was the last time our currency depreciated 40% in 90 dyas?

You can say the same thing about the stock market or housing or land or or or or or.
Don't you mean, when was the last time property depreciated 40%.

Oscar

2nd April 2014, 16:11

You can say the same thing about the stock market or housing or land or or or or or.
Don't you mean, when was the last time property depreciated 40%.

OK, I'll play your game - when was the last time property depreciated by 40% in 90 days in NZ?

take your time...

husaberg

2nd April 2014, 16:16

Whatever it was worth when it began will mean nought to the poor bastid that bought his in Dec 2013.
When was the last time our currency depreciated 40% in 90 dyas?

The New Zealand dollar was devalued by 20% in one Day in about 84 Gst added a further 10% decrease in buying power not long later.

Oscar

2nd April 2014, 16:23

The New Zealand dollar was devalued by 20% in one Day in about 84 Gst added a further 10% decrease in buying power not long later.

But not 40% in 90 days, eh?

I'm waiting for Mashy to come up with the property crash....

mashman

2nd April 2014, 16:39

OK, I'll play your game - when was the last time property depreciated by 40% in 90 days in NZ?

take your time...

No game. Dunno. When did it? Anyway, why are you shifting the goalposts to property in NZ when we were discussing virtual currency and global virtual currency?

mashman

2nd April 2014, 16:40

The New Zealand dollar was devalued by 20% in one Day in about 84 Gst added a further 10% decrease in buying power not long later.

Let him have his moment of glory, he'll be intolerable otherwise and I doubt his missus deserves that.

husaberg

2nd April 2014, 16:55

Let him have his moment of glory, he'll be intolerable otherwise and I doubt his missus deserves that.

I gave him 30% in 2 day's rather than his 40% in 90 days, maybe his Maths is not so flash;)
Someones getting sold short that's for sure

bogan

2nd April 2014, 17:37

Whatever it was worth when it began will mean nought to the poor bastid that bought his in Dec 2013.
When was the last time our currency depreciated 40% in 90 dyas?

And that's within its first 10 years, who knows what it'll fuck up in the next ten :facepalm:

Oscar

2nd April 2014, 18:08

No game. Dunno. When did it? Anyway, why are you shifting the goalposts to property in NZ when we were discussing virtual currency and global virtual currency?

Er - you mentioned property, not me.
Feel free to answer the question using the NZ$ though.

Oscar

2nd April 2014, 18:10

I gave him 30% in 2 day's rather than his 40% in 90 days, maybe his Maths is not so flash;)
Someones getting sold short that's for sure

Still not 40% in 90 days, though.
It was Mashy that posed the question, not me.

husaberg

2nd April 2014, 18:14

Still not 40% in 90 days, though.
It was Mashy that posed the question, not me.

40%/90 days =.44/day. You are looking at part of the question that was posed, and then looking at only part of my answer...............

Brian d marge

2nd April 2014, 18:29

Cant we set fire to the city and blame the christians?

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

husaberg

2nd April 2014, 19:09

Cant we set fire to the city and blame the christians?

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

"Well, I don't know as I want a lawyer to tell me what I cannot do. I hire him to tell how to do what I want to do."

J. P. Morgan

mashman

2nd April 2014, 19:36

Er - you mentioned property, not me.
Feel free to answer the question using the NZ$ though.

But that's OK, coz the US IRS says that the Bitcoin isn't currency, it's property...

Hmmmmmmm.
Sigh... another who doesn't like the answers he's given:

Dunno. When did it?

:facepalm: :facepalm:

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 09:51

40%/90 days =.44/day. You are looking at part of the question that was posed, and then looking at only part of my answer...............

Your answer was interesting, but related to a currency that was regulated and then floated - after all that time with a regulated value it was bound to jump one way or another.

Besides, the question was to mashy, who said:

You can say the same thing about the stock market or housing or land or or or or or.
Don't you mean, when was the last time property depreciated 40%.

He was inferring that those markets are just as volatile as the BitCoin.
I merely asked him to prove it.

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 09:53

Hmmmmmmm.
Sigh... another who doesn't like the answers he's given:

:facepalm: :facepalm:

What answers?
It was your question:

You can say the same thing about the stock market or housing or land or or or or or.
Don't you mean, when was the last time property depreciated 40%.

I just wondered if you had an answer.

mashman

3rd April 2014, 11:09

What answers?
It was your question:

I just wondered if you had an answer.

Dunno was one of them.

The question whas rhetorical.

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 12:42

Dunno was one of them.

The question whas rhetorical.

Bullshit.
You said "..you can say the same thing about the stock market or housing or land or or or or or.."
That was not a question, it was a statement.
A statement that you don't seem to be able to back up.

mashman

3rd April 2014, 13:06

Bullshit.
You said "..you can say the same thing about the stock market or housing or land or or or or or.."
That was not a question, it was a statement.
A statement that you don't seem to be able to back up.

Oh I see, you want to shift the goal posts yet again. In which case the context was as follows:

Whatever it was worth when it began will mean nought to the poor bastid that bought his in Dec 2013.
When was the last time our currency depreciated 40% in 90 dyas?

You can say the same thing about the stock market or housing or land or or or or or.
Don't you mean, when was the last time property depreciated 40%.

I noted that you used two distinct sentences (informal paragraphs) and therefore responded in exactly the same way.

Therefore sentence 1 refers to your statement that was sentence (informal paragraph) one, similarly with sentence (informal paragraph) 2.

By all means shift the goal posts again to try to frame your argument to suit your purposes. If all else fails it gives me much pleasure to watch you dance like a marionette. Thanks for that BTW.

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 13:09

Oh I see, you want to shift the goal posts yet again. In which case the context was as follows:

I noted that you used two distinct sentences (informal paragraphs) and therefore responded in exactly the same way.

Therefore sentence 1 refers to your statement that was sentence (informal paragraph) one, similarly with sentence (informal paragraph) 2.

By all means shift the goal posts again to try to frame your argument to suit your purposes. If all else fails it gives me much pleasure to watch you dance like a marionette. Thanks for that BTW.

What a moran.
You've got nothing, have you?
You made the statement, but you fail to back it up.
When you paint yourself into a corner, you try and make out that you planned it all along...

Banditbandit

3rd April 2014, 13:14

Cant we set fire to the city and blame the christians?

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Sorry - that's been done - it's a "Funny Once" joke ...

mashman

3rd April 2014, 13:14

What a moran.
You've got nothing, have you?
You made the statement, but you fail to back it up.
When you paint yourself into a corner, you try and make out that you planned it all along...

:killingme... I'm not the one in the corner. You screwed yourself over and are, as per, looking for a scapegoat using a straw man argument. I used to love watching you spin those yarns and whilst still funny, they're rarely worth following up these days as they are exceptionally boring and trite in the extreme.

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 13:17

:killingme... I'm not the one in the corner. You screwed yourself over and are, as per, looking for a scapegoat using a straw man argument. I used to love watching you spin those yarns and whilst still funny, they're rarely worth following up these days as they are exceptionally boring and trite in the extreme.

So have you found anything to back up your comparison between the Bit Coin and the Property/Share or Currency Market?

mashman

3rd April 2014, 13:50

So have you found anything to back up your comparison between the Bit Coin and the Property/Share or Currency Market?

I didn't make that comparison.

Brian d marge

3rd April 2014, 13:50

Sorry - that's been done - it's a "Funny Once" joke ...

How about the poor armed with box cutters surely that hasnt been done

Sent from my SC-01F using Tapatalk

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 14:04

I didn't make that comparison.

Really?
You are getting boring now.

So one last time - I coulda sworn that when I said:

Whatever it was worth when it began will mean nought to the poor bastid that bought his in Dec 2013.
When was the last time our currency depreciated 40% in 90 dyas?

You said:

You can say the same thing about the stock market or housing or land or or or or or.
Don't you mean, when was the last time property depreciated 40%.

So, please tell us when the last time any of those markets fell 40% in 90 days.
And as for "straw man" nonsense - you brought up the subject of virtual currency and you compared it to property.

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 14:07

Sorry - that's been done - it's a "Funny Once" joke ...

Nobody ever hesitated to flog a dead horse on KB.

Brian d marge

3rd April 2014, 14:17

Nobody ever hesitated to flog a dead horse on KB.

when you get older flogging a dead horse becomes the morning ritual

So , successive collapsing society have blamed; The Christian, The Jews , The Musilms, The rich , The poor , The unemployed The barbarians.
then the society drifted away from central planning into Ill be all right by myself ( Romans drifted towards weathy land owners )
Then the society collapsed.

Fk Ill have to wait for ages before I get my big screen tv .......

Stephen

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 14:31

when you get older flogging a dead horse becomes the morning ritual

So , successive collapsing society have blamed; The Christian, The Jews , The Musilms, The rich , The poor , The unemployed The barbarians.
then the society drifted away from central planning into Ill be all right by myself ( Romans drifted towards weathy land owners )
Then the society collapsed.

Fk Ill have to wait for ages before I get my big screen tv .......

Stephen

You should know by now that everything is the fault of Middled Aged, Middle Class, White Males.

I accepted, and then embraced my guilt some time ago.

mashman

3rd April 2014, 15:12

So, please tell us when the last time any of those markets fell 40% in 90 days.
And as for "straw man" nonsense - you brought up the subject of virtual currency and you compared it to property.

Ok. For the last time.

Whatever it was worth when it began will mean nought to the poor bastid that bought his in Dec 2013.
When was the last time our currency depreciated 40% in 90 dyas?

You can say the same thing about the stock market or housing or land or or or or or.
Don't you mean, when was the last time property depreciated 40%.

I noted that you used two distinct sentences (informal paragraphs) and therefore responded in exactly the same way.

Therefore sentence 1 refers to your statement that was sentence (informal paragraph) one, similarly with sentence (informal paragraph) 2.

By all means shift the goal posts again to try to frame your argument to suit your purposes. If all else fails it gives me much pleasure to watch you dance like a marionette. Thanks for that BTW.

But that's OK, coz the US IRS says that the Bitcoin isn't currency, it's property...

Again, you brought up property.

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 15:16

Ok. For the last time.

I noted that you used two distinct sentences (informal paragraphs) and therefore responded in exactly the same way.

Therefore sentence 1 refers to your statement that was sentence (informal paragraph) one, similarly with sentence (informal paragraph) 2.

By all means shift the goal posts again to try to frame your argument to suit your purposes. If all else fails it gives me much pleasure to watch you dance like a marionette. Thanks for that BTW.

Again, you brought up property.

Wow, you can really lay on the bullshit when you're cornered.
Wouldn't it have been easier to answer that you have no clue?

This was fun, but I'm done with you now.
Off you go...

scrivy

3rd April 2014, 15:18

You should know by now that everything is the fault of Middled Aged, Middle Class, White Males.

You forgot sidecar passengers....... :rolleyes::bleh:

mashman

3rd April 2014, 15:24

Wow, you can really lay on the bullshit when you're cornered.
Wouldn't it have been easier to answer that you have no clue?

This was fun, but I'm done with you now.
Off you go...

In other words all you can do is lie. Look, I'm not some magnanimous prick that's going to wallow in the fact that you were schooled by a self confessed moron. I leave those sorts of attitudes to others on KB.

Thanks marion.

Oscar

3rd April 2014, 15:26

In other words all you can do is lie. Look, I'm not some magnanimous prick that's going to wallow in the fact that you were schooled by a self confessed moron. I leave those sorts of attitudes to others on KB.

Thanks marion.

You made a statement, I asked you a question.
What a liar I am...

Anyone with have a clue would only have to glance at your fetid ravings here to figure out who the moron is.

husaberg

3rd April 2014, 15:41

Your answer was interesting, but related to a currency that was regulated and then floated - after all that time with a regulated value it was bound to jump one way or another.

Besides, the question was to mashy, who said:

Whatever it was worth when it began will mean nought to the poor bastid that bought his in Dec 2013.
When was the last time our currency depreciated 40% in 90 dyas?

He was inferring that those markets are just as volatile as the BitCoin.
I merely asked him to prove it.

I answered the question i seen posed by you? That why i quoted you.
Irrelevant of what you may think about the hows and whys, it was devalued in one day by 20%.
Muldoon from memory was actually forced to do it..........