Trump - 4 more years of this at least... [Archive] - Page 4

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pritch

14th October 2020, 09:31

There have been many ads. This one though may be one of the more musical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJQZ7yG7Tdg

sugilite

14th October 2020, 12:01

That's a false comparison, the issue is not that people have died per se, it's that people were targetted and killed specifically for their political beliefs - so far the official estimate is 2 - that is where we have confirmation that they were killed because they supported Trump.

I've granted you that I think the Federal response for Covid was weak, but to compare deaths from a disease to targeted political assassinations is not on the same ball park.
Weak is very misleading - as in they obstructed the truth - severely. A leak showed strong evidence that they extra ignored it as initially it was hitting democratic states hardest. You want political assassinations, how about kutchner led wholesale ones. False comparison - I think not.

coming back to my leftie Communist points - what is the level of proof that you would accept, for my claim that there are a number of radically left-wing groups, that have been radicalised by the University grievance studies system and are explicitly intent on a Communist revolution.

Name your standard of Proof.

If I can meet it, then you have to concede that there is at least a Kernel of truth to what I say
If I can't meet it (and the expectation would be that we would both be honest on each way), then I won't bring it up again

Deal?
This is easy, I have not researched your claims that blm has some studied marxists among them, so I won't deny that.
How ever there is a glaring hole in your argument that one could drive a semi truck through. There is simply not the popular support for their movement to get the job done, not even a smidgen. You like to cite revolutions down through the ages, they had the popular support required to actually stage a revolution. It is never even going to get a toenail hold in the USA. Surely you realize this.

But as for the Rally, let's say I went to a Trump rally - would I then immediately visit every single one of my Elderly relatives? You make many assumptions for which my initial statement does not stretch to.

As I said, it's about Managing Risk. My immediate Family falls well outside the risk area for the disease - so I would have no qualms about going. My Grandparents-in-law on the other hand, being elderly and with pre-existing conditions - I wouldn't be visiting them or if I did, I'd be taking some precautions that are applicable to that situation
But fuck everyone else you and your family would invariably come into contact with eh? Indefensible, no bullshit waffle answer to this please.

By that logic, everyone that went grocery shopping is also guilty - so why are they exempt?

- but we have to get Food!

Food is required for survival, a Trump rally is a selfish indulgence from all sides. Supermarkets also in most cases control social distancing, unlike the shitty lip service Trump rally organizers do while packing em in like sardines. Simple shit man - you got to be taking the piss here.

I disagree - but then we've covered this - if you take every Trump statement as 100% literal truth, then sure - he lies a lot. However I don't take everything he says as 100% literal truth - firstly because as a Native English Speaker, I understand various linguistic devices, secondly I know he's a New Yorker - who happen to have a particular way of speaking that includes a lot of superlatives (Best, Biggest, Greatest etc.)
Nope, he lies, and lies and lies. Even when he is serious, as he clearly was to anyone that watched the inject bleach speech, later to say he was joking. He is a liability in that position. Even if he really was joking, how fucking irresponsible can a leader possibly get. Again, you got to be taking the piss about all of this.

I've already addressed my position on the handling of Covid - but sure, it starts with a bit of looting, then a bit of Arson, Attempts at creating Communes and we've now had 2 summary executions, Do you know what the next step is? It makes the Covid death-toll look like a drop in the ocean.
Again, they do not even have 1% of the public support to stage a marxist revolution. Again, you HAVE to be taking the piss.

How many buildings did the NZ Firearms community burn down when our rights were summarily stripped from us? It's not like I'm holding them to an unreasonable standard or a different standard - it's the same for every group that has a political grievance. You want to protest?
You have extremely subjective standards. A handful of right wing (and left wing) deaths in so called protests, and my God you are up and at them. An administration deliberately misinforms the public about a pandemic directly killing thousands, and you describe it as "poor handling". Breath taking ignorance imo - and that is being charitable.

He's started no new wars
He's had 2 instances that are historic moments for world peace
He appears to have defeated ISIS
He's opted not to use Lethal Options on occassion - such as the 2019 Iranian Drone incident

Except inflaming a race war in his own country, a war on the consitution, and many other internal wars.
I cannot believe you are still trumpeting the North Korea and Arab Israel as meaningful peace initiatives.
Korea gave up NOTHING and got a shit ton of legitimacy in the process.
And the other deal would be about as impressive as Judith Collins securing a deal between NZ and Australia signing a document to say we are mates. You set unbelievably low bars when it comes to defining a "win" for Trump. AGAIN, you have to be taking the piss!

Cool - so how come Saint Obama didn't manage to do it?
Or the US embassy in Jerusalem?

I agree they were not at war and that there was an good informal relationship - but considering the general Arab emnity towards Israel, it's a big win.
Bending the knee to Isreal by building a embassy in Jerusalem is hardly doing the whole region any favors, probably why Obama did not do it, and the other, as above is a big nothing.

Or perhaps even those close to him still get the public persona?

Like family members, close aides. It does not really matter who I say here as you will produce a waffle with a generous amount of bullshit topping on it. Trump is exactly the turd he portrays himself to be.

Because I don't care about his Taxes? If he's done anything illegal, I'll wait for the IRS investigation. Until one is opened- it's a red herring.

So what - you appear to lose sleep over a perceived marxist threat with near zero popular support. But do not give a shit about who a President with the nuclear codes is personally on the hook for over 400 million dollars is.
The same President who.....
1. US based banks would not lend money too.
2. Has UNPRECEDENTED secret meetings with Putin.
3. Believes Putin over what his own MANY intelligence agencies are saying.
4. On one hand says he is being hard on Russia with sanctions while on the other trying his darnedest to get them back into the G7.
5. Was very busy wanting to build a massive Trump hotel in Moscow - so clearly has had exposure to dubious Russian sources of financing.
Not really hard to put that lot together in order to work out where most of the 400 million is owing to is it? But that's right, you simply don't care.

Thinking about the DemonLord I met those years ago in person, I can only come to the conclusion your posts are full of shit and you are just doing a big wind up. Surely you cannot be so willfully ignorant.

sugilite

14th October 2020, 12:09

The look on their faces at the end is priceless :laugh:
Imagine if Trump had to debate Pete, that would of been something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3Aelt0Q9aU

pritch

14th October 2020, 13:31

I have not researched your claims that blm has some studied marxists among them, so I won't deny that.

BLM Inc was set up by three black women, all lesbians apparently, one of whom claims to be a Marxist. The RWNJs and (or including?) TDL extrapolate that to mean all BLM are gay Marxists. It's too silly to dignify with a serious discussion.

pritch

14th October 2020, 13:35

The look on their faces at the end is priceless :laugh:

Loved it. Pete can waffle sometimes, but he was a Rhodes Scholar so he's more than a match for any Fox talking heads.

TheDemonLord

14th October 2020, 14:59

When Trump was elected he started using non dsclosure agreements with White House staff, just as he had in business.

Thank you for proving my point about this being pretty common for high profile individuals.

With reference to his taxes, the IRS may be a bit slow out of the blocks, but the Attorney General of New York is currently conducting an investigation.

Ah yes, New York - definitely no political bias in that investigation...

TheDemonLord

14th October 2020, 15:03

BLM Inc was set up by three black women, all lesbians apparently, one of whom claims to be a Marxist. The RWNJs and (or including?) TDL extrapolate that to mean all BLM are gay Marxists. It's too sily to dignify with a serious discussion.

I don't care who or how they choose to Fuck.

They explicitly state they are "Trained Marxists", they are following the doctrine of Critical Race Theory (a Marxist derived 'study'), they state they want a revolution to overthrow the western capitalist patriarchal system.

How much more blatant do you want?

FJRider

14th October 2020, 15:32

I don't care who or how they choose to Fuck.

They explicitly state they are "Trained Marxists", they are following the doctrine of Critical Race Theory (a Marxist derived 'study'), they state they want a revolution to overthrow the western capitalist patriarchal system.

How much more blatant do you want?

Well the good news is ... at least they're not breeding ... ;)

FJRider

14th October 2020, 17:15

Thank you for proving my point about this being pretty common for high profile individuals.

If it's so common ... Name three others.

With a link (at least) to confirm and prove.

mashman

14th October 2020, 17:31

Just in case people still think that what's happening is Trump's doing... coz seriously, retarded as a view doesn't begin to cover just how ignorant such positions are.

"It is a system which has conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military, diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.” They “virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties… It operates under cover of a self-created screen [and] seizes our executive officers, legislative bodies, schools, courts, newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.”

As a result, these leaders say, “we have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.”

“The danger has never been more clear and its presence has never been more imminent… Its dissenters are silenced, not praised.” Therefore, “to destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.”

pete376403

14th October 2020, 17:58

We're gonna drain the swamp...

Grumph

14th October 2020, 19:11

The "Started no new wars" claim is moot IMO. He's letting treaties lapse that should have been re-negotiated.

Currently there's a pause in negotiating a renewal of a nuclear arms treaty with Russia. The US negotiator went in saying that there was a gentlemans agreement between Trump and Putin....
The Russians denied it. Said "you're not getting anything until after the election" The US is waiting for the information to "filter down" from Putin.

Does anyone actually think Putin will come to the party ? Other than the US of course.

I reckon Putin's seen the writing on the wall for Trump and will shortly drop him in it. All it takes is the Russian banks to ask for repayment of their loans.

pritch

14th October 2020, 19:21

Thank you for proving my point about this being pretty common for high profile individuals.

Sorry, that's just imbecile territory. Which why you are mostly on ignore. Utterly unintelligent. If you want people to believe you have an IQ of 130 you might act like somebody with an IQ higher then 75.

Katman

14th October 2020, 19:23

.....like somebody with an IQ higher then 75.

You should be so lucky.

pritch

14th October 2020, 20:30

You should be so lucky.

I'm OK thanks. I'm not some idiot that believes every halfwit conspiracy theory. Unlike some easily led sheep hereabout.

You should sit this one out.

mashman

15th October 2020, 05:53

I'm OK thanks. I'm not some idiot that believes every halfwit conspiracy theory. Unlike some easily led sheep hereabout.

You shpuld sit this one out.

Perfect response. Shooting the messenger. I hadn't considered that President Andrew Jackson believed halfwit conspiracy theories given the supporting evidence. Thanks Pritch, I'll keep that in mind whilst reading the accounts of presidents and prominent business people who have highlighted the existence of shadow governments for well over 100 years.

mashman

15th October 2020, 07:39

You should be so lucky.

Straight out of the Joe Biden handbook of denial (https://nypost.com/2020/10/14/email-reveals-how-hunter-biden-introduced-ukrainian-biz-man-to-dad/amp/)

"Biden then continued berating the man as he stepped forward, called the man “fat” and challenged him to “do push-ups together, man.”.". Dipshit sounds more like Trump than Trump.

TheDemonLord

15th October 2020, 07:46

If it's so common ... Name three others.

With a link (at least) to confirm and prove.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=celebrities+with+nda+agreements

There's a list of 15.

I'll also throw in Super Yacht owners (Crews have to sign extensive NDA agreements) and finally:

https://www.doctemplates.net/celebrity-confidentiality-nda/

If you would be so kind as to scroll down, you'll see a sample of an NDA agreement specifically for anything to do with Health.

Even if you want to discount the above, it's a reasonable deduction that given that on a Template of standard NDAs, there is one specifically included for Medical records/Health, that this proves it is used with sufficient regularity.

Sorry, that's just imbecile territory. Which why you are mostly on ignore. Utterly unintelligent. If you want people to believe you have an IQ of 130 you might act like somebody with an IQ higher then 75.

Oof, This feels like that time when you aserted that Antifa was formed as a reaction to the Proud Boys and then went awfully silent when you were presented with definitive proof that Antifa were formed almost a decade earlier.

Would you care to retract your statements?

pritch

15th October 2020, 07:59

Trump thought he had a nuclear treaty to announce with great fanfare prior to the election. Russia thought not.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/14/us/politics/trump-russia-nuclear-deal.html

sugilite

15th October 2020, 08:09

mashman

15th October 2020, 08:41

Trump "The greatest political crime in the history of the US".
Barr lets out a wee wet fart.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/unmasking-probe-ends-no-charges

Trump "fuck, better put out a maga distraction, Rudi, get the fake hunter scandal out!"
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hunter-biden-emails-senate-homeland-security-committee-investigating-hard-drive-laptop

All so predictable.

In fact, as a detailed review of the evidence conducted by The Intercept in May showed, Biden’s intervention in Ukrainian affairs that year, when he successfully pressed Ukraine’s then-president to dismiss a chief prosecutor who had failed to pursue corruption investigations, was no secret and was widely praised by Ukrainian anti-corruption activists and international donors to the country.

The reason there is footage of Biden boasting about this intervention on stage at a public event in 2018 is that he knew he had nothing to hide. (https://theintercept.com/2019/09/22/reporters-stop-helping-donald-trump-spread-lies-joe-biden-ukraine/)

Oh dear. Admitted and confirmed by the man himself, and yet it's a fake scandal. You'll enjoy the rest of the article though, coz it supports your man.

sugilite

15th October 2020, 09:00

In fact, as a detailed review of the evidence conducted by The Intercept in May showed, Biden’s intervention in Ukrainian affairs that year, when he successfully pressed Ukraine’s then-president to dismiss a chief prosecutor who had failed to pursue corruption investigations, was no secret and was widely praised by Ukrainian anti-corruption activists and international donors to the country.

The reason there is footage of Biden boasting about this intervention on stage at a public event in 2018 is that he knew he had nothing to hide. (https://theintercept.com/2019/09/22/reporters-stop-helping-donald-trump-spread-lies-joe-biden-ukraine/)

Oh dear. Admitted and confirmed by the man himself, and yet it's a fake scandal. You'll enjoy the rest of the article though, coz it supports your man.

Except Biden is not my man, in other threads I have already stated my opinion he is simply too old and past it. It is the sad state of US politics that the best they can do is the two specimens running.

TheDemonLord

15th October 2020, 09:01

Except Biden is not my man, in other threads I have already stated my opinion he is simply too old and past it. It is the sad state of US politics that the best they can do is the two specimens running.

What I'd have given to see Thulsi Gabbard as the Democratic Candidate.

For multiple reasons.

And at least one of them because she is all kinds of Yum.

sugilite

15th October 2020, 09:28

What I'd have given to see Thulsi Gabbard as the Democratic Candidate.

For multiple reasons.

And at least one of them because she is all kinds of Yum.
Sounds like a future candidate you would really like to get behind huh? :innocent:

mashman

15th October 2020, 09:31

sugilite

15th October 2020, 09:47

Or yet more evidence that the "game" is, and has been rigged for a very long time. If it were only US politics, I wouldn't give shit.

You are pretty much preaching to the converted with me. I know the system is super corrupt, not just the US one. I know the polis are just puppets of the shadowy figures really running the show. Which makes Trumps drain the swamp statements even more laughable.

Katman

15th October 2020, 10:14

TheDemonLord

15th October 2020, 10:26

Sounds like a future candidate you would really like to get behind huh? :innocent:

Are you saying you wouldn't? (https://www.google.com/search?q=tulsi+gabbard&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=ALeKk00rMOQ9s21UWDu0wWSELfAUThX7Tw:160271398 0378&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOhejrjrXsAhUz7XMBHY9RD5MQ_AUoAXoECB8QA w&biw=1536&bih=750)

But let's look past her Looks:

She's a Veteren and has served.
She's a very centre-left candidate (the traditional centre-left, which I still have a great sympathy for)
Most of her Policies I could support (although her Environmental policy is a little too much for me personally)
She's well spoken.
She absolutely nuked Kamala Harris' run for being the Presidential candidate (seriously, go watch that clip, it's glorious)
She's a Woman - so 'Yay Woman' to shut-up all the Woke Lefties
She's a 'Person of Colour' - so 'Yay not an old white man' also to shut-up all the Woke Lefties
She was betrayed by her own party because she's not Woke.

Seriously, what is there not to like?

sugilite

15th October 2020, 10:34

Then perhaps the focus should be on who is pulling the strings - rather than the puppet.

The current puppet is a doofus beyond belief, and I'm always amazed at the stupidity of "followers". So entertaining as hell.
As for the puppeteers, I can only guess and likely fail as to who they really are I would imagine making a noise and coming up on their radar would definitely not be a good idea. I have no doubt they can destroy pretty much anyone's life at the click of a button.

TheDemonLord

15th October 2020, 10:57

I'm going to preface this reply - that I'm going to be splitting certain statements up - there's 2 key themes really being discussed. One is specifically to do with Trump, the other is more to do with my views on the Radical Left, so it seems to me that addressing the comments grouped by the above should make reading easier (if you choose to read the inevitable giant wall o' text)

Weak is very misleading - as in they obstructed the truth - severely. A leak showed strong evidence that they extra ignored it as initially it was hitting democratic states hardest. You want political assassinations, how about kutchner led wholesale ones. False comparison - I think not.

So, I'm going to preface my response with a reiteration that yes, I do believe there should have been a stronger Federal response from Trump for Covid.

However I don't think all of the blame can be placed solely on Trump - Afterall, he was one of the first world leaders who wanted to implement a Travel Ban (which the Democrats objected to - remember Hug a Chinese person?)

Then there has been a fair amount of differences in the level of State responses - some that have relatively low populations and low population density (which also tend to be Republican) have done okay, others with high population densities (which also tend to be Democrat areas) not so much.

There's other factors such as degree of international and internal travel (which is something that has aided NZ) and the fact that the population of American is known for pre-existing health conditions (Cough Obesity Cough)

To conclude - Sure, Trump should get a good amount of Blame for it, but this 'Trump is solely to blame for everything bad' is too much.

In addition to that, we have yet to see what the long-term consequences of the various actions, and I'm not just referring to the Economic ones here.

But fuck everyone else you and your family would invariably come into contact with eh? Indefensible, no bullshit waffle answer to this please.

Like who? I mean, I was cooped up at home during the lockdown (and not very amused about it) - I'm the only one in the Office, I'm not going out partying, you may infer from my prickly nature that I'm not the most extroverted person with a wide group of friends.

But let's get back to reality here, If I attended a Rally and started to feel unwell (bearing in mind the limited exposure I've outlined above) I'd not hesitate to get myself tested and self-quarantine - As I said, it's about Managing Risk.

Food is required for survival, a Trump rally is a selfish indulgence from all sides. Supermarkets also in most cases control social distancing, unlike the shitty lip service Trump rally organizers do while packing em in like sardines. Simple shit man - you got to be taking the piss here.

When there's an option for online ordering and delivery, there's no need for the majority (who have the capability to utilise said feature) to go out - but we all know why most people did - which was to get out of the house and feel a small sense of normality, which is an indulgence. And whilst under level 4 I saw plenty of people not obeying social distancing at the Supermarkets (mostly by accident), and the Supermarkets were not controlling it.

This 'packing them in like sardines' - my understanding is that most of these Rallies are being held in the open air, which greatly diminishes the risk.

Nope, he lies, and lies and lies. Even when he is serious, as he clearly was to anyone that watched the inject bleach speech, later to say he was joking. He is a liability in that position. Even if he really was joking, how fucking irresponsible can a leader possibly get. Again, you got to be taking the piss about all of this.

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/24/context-what-donald-trump-said-about-disinfectant-/

"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning

It's clear - from the actual transcript, that he's not telling people to inject bleach, he's asking a hypothetical to the undersecretary for science and technology as to whether or not they can use the disinfectant in some way.

Now, here's one of those times when I'll be critical of Trump - anyone who remembers the basics of Biology would know that is a stupid idea - however remember when I said the Media lies as much as Trump?

What they reported and what you remember is Trump telling people to inject themselves with Bleach, what he actually said was 'Is there a way we can use this thing that kills the virus in a new way?' - I'll agree it's a dumb question (since Bleach works by breaking down the Cell Membrane, and it can't tell the difference between the Bad Cells and the good ones) - but it's clearly a hypothetical question and not a directive.

I cannot believe you are still trumpeting the North Korea and Arab Israel as meaningful peace initiatives.
Korea gave up NOTHING and got a shit ton of legitimacy in the process.

I believe it's important to Talk to them. Something that no other President was able to do.

I said I'll hear your argument about the legitimization of the Regime - but what's the alternative? We nuke North Korea? Either we fight them or we talk with them.

And the other deal would be about as impressive as Judith Collins securing a deal between NZ and Australia signing a document to say we are mates. You set unbelievably low bars when it comes to defining a "win" for Trump. AGAIN, you have to be taking the piss!

Sure, if Australia had repeatedly called for NZ to be wiped off the Map, you might have a point. Seeing ONE Arab nation sign a deal with Israel - whereby neither of them really loose anything and it only formalizes the pre-existing arrangement, but what it does do is show the other Arab nations that playing nicely with Israel isn't so bad and if the UAE can do it, they can too. Like the first person to stand up on an issue and then everyone else suddenly finds the courage to do so.

I agree that in-of-itself it's not that big, but I believe it to be a key first-step in the region.

Bending the knee to Isreal by building a embassy in Jerusalem is hardly doing the whole region any favors, probably why Obama did not do it, and the other, as above is a big nothing.

Except you forget that Obama in 2008 when he was a Candidate said that Jerusalem will be the Capitol of Israel (and the Capitol is where the Embassy has to be located).

Obama said he would do it, chose not to.
Trump said he would do it, actually did it.

Furthermore - this has been part of US Policy since 1995 (apparently), with each US president since, opting not to do it

We can argue as to whether this is a wise course of action, and I'll hear your argument about provocation and not good for the region - however I'm judging both people on what they said and what they did. Obama said he would do it, but didn't, Trump said he would do it and followed through.

Like family members, close aides. It does not really matter who I say here as you will produce a waffle with a generous amount of bullshit topping on it. Trump is exactly the turd he portrays himself to be.

Sure, but let's again compare to other high-profile people (Celebrities, and lord do I hate having to bring them up) - but everyday in the gossip rags we see multiple statements by 'Close Aides', 'Inner-Circle Friends', 'Family Members' with all sorts of statement, some of which are contradictory.

And when I look into the ones that are presented, often we will see that there is a degree of personal or political bias involved.

But do not give a shit about who a President with the nuclear codes is personally on the hook for over 400 million dollars is.
The same President who.....
1. US based banks would not lend money too.
2. Has UNPRECEDENTED secret meetings with Putin.
3. Believes Putin over what his own MANY intelligence agencies are saying.
4. On one hand says he is being hard on Russia with sanctions while on the other trying his darnedest to get them back into the G7.
5. Was very busy wanting to build a massive Trump hotel in Moscow - so clearly has had exposure to dubious Russian sources of financing.
Not really hard to put that lot together in order to work out where most of the 400 million is owing to is it? But that's right, you simply don't care

The reason I don't care is that things like this are relatively common, especially in the venture-capital world.

If you were to look at any very wealthy business magnate, I'm sure you could find revenue streams that have 'connections' with various organized crime groups or other unsavory characters, usually with several lays of abstraction so that the individual has plausible deniability. I'm not saying it's right, I'm just stating that this isn't something unique or extraordinary for Trump.

On the hook for $400 Million, sounds a lot to you and I, but when you are in the line of Work that Trump is in, that sounds about right - if it all goes tits up, he'll declare bankruptcy like he's done previously and work his way back up.

And this 'Muh Russia' connection, are we still flogging that dead horse?

The key thing for me is, despite Nancy Pelosi, the Media, The Democrats and all the other figures who pathologically hate Trump - their best efforts since the 2016 Election result - where is the actual hard evidence of the type of Corruption you are inferring? Despite all the Hearings, the Reports, the Farce of an Impeachment, politically motivated 'investigations' by butt-hurt Democrats, where is it?

At best we've got some info that wouldn't pass muster as circumstantial evidence in a Court. Now, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant, There comes a point though that when every stone has been overturned, it's time to move on.

This is easy, I have not researched your claims that blm has some studied marxists among them, so I won't deny that.
How ever there is a glaring hole in your argument that one could drive a semi truck through. There is simply not the popular support for their movement to get the job done, not even a smidgen. You like to cite revolutions down through the ages, they had the popular support required to actually stage a revolution. It is never even going to get a toenail hold in the USA. Surely you realize this.

The figures for support is much higher - more like 15-20% (that's an approximate figure, combined from people who support various aspects of Social Justice - such as self-declared Feminists, self-declared supporters of BLM etc.)

But I want to expand on this - if the support for this is so low (according to you) then how do you explain the following?

5 years ago, you hadn't heard of the concept of White Privilege, but I had and now you have heard of it, if it was just a fringe 1%, you would never have.
How is it that Major Corporations publicly declare support for a fringe 1% of the population movement? Especially when each time a Company does this, it often results in MASSIVE losses for the company?
If the support is so minimal how is it that they are still around?

Now, I want to add some information here - I've been watching this happen for the best part of 10 years, which was when the Intersectional (that'll come up again) Feminists started to encroach in various forms of Media, first the Atheists, then Computer Games etc. etc. - At that time, it was just a Fringe movement. But it kept going - and there's a pattern that happens here:

Fringe ideas in a University are concocted, in very left-leaning circles where no one thinks to say 'hang on, that's absolute Bullshit'
Those ideas get taught to a group of students who go out into the real-world, typically in very left-sympathetic roles (HR, Marketing, Journalism etc.)
Those Fringe ideas are given legitimacy by a broken peer-review system that is basically confirmation bias (in non STEM fields), see the Grievance Studies hoax/expose
The Fringe idea becomes mainstream, which are then used as the basis for further fringe ideas etc.

Further to this, We know that this is the mechanism, because people like Yuri Bezmenov told us that this is the way that the KGB tried to instigate revolutions in other countries over a period of 10-20 years, and he was doing this in the 1980s - either he was prophetic in the extreme or it's just the same pattern by the same marxist actors repeating

I'll use a case in point - when BLM started, it was just about Police Brutality, now it has morphed into calls to get rid of the Police. When even Al Sharpton is saying 'hold up a second' - you know you have definitely gone too far. There's other examples too - such as the TERF war in Feminist circles, where people like JK Rowling or Germain Greer who have been life-long and staunch Feminist advocates and Icons are now shunned as pariahs.

All of this would be fine however if it wasn't for the implicit acceptance and toleration of this lunacy by our institutions. And this is one of the areas where Trump has really fought back against it - with his banning of 'Critical Race theory' (AKA White Supremacy, but with a Guilty Conscious).

Remember when I pointed out Richard Spencer (Leader of the Alt-Right and an Ethno-nationalist) supported Joe Biden, This is why. The Modern woke Left tell you that you are racist and you have to treat people as a member of their Racial group, because of how different prejudices and oppressions intersect (hint) with their racial identity.

When Robin D'Angelo publishes her Book 'White Fragility' - she openly states she is Racist and she gives an anecdote of going to a picnic with friends and walking passed a bunch of African Americans and being scarred.

This is the kind of thing that over a decade ago would be rightly cast out as toxic garbage, and yet because of the process of disseminating fringe ideas and the acceptance and toleration of this by some people in particular positions it is given approval. I can't speak for you - but I'm going to assume that if someone told you 'I'm racist and I feel nervous when I have to be close to a group of Blacks' - that you would feel viscerally disgusted by that person and you would shun them, yet this is not only given approval now, it's paraded as some form of Moral virtue - and linking back to the Alt-Right and the Ethno-nationalists - they love it, because it's doing all the hard work for them - convincing people to see each other as members of their race, not as an individual - the only difference is whereas the Woke crowd say that you should be ashamed of the original sin for being born White, the Alt-Right say you should be proud of this.

I apologize that this section is long (and going to be a bit longer) but there's about 10 years worth of events I'm trying to compress down.

I'll finish with one final point - a Thought experiment - which should be the Acid Test for all that I have said.

Imagine that tomorrow a group of Swastika waving, Neo-Nazis decide to take over a City Block. Let's say that they do this whilst declaring 'All Jews are Bastards', They have armed guards in full-black 'uniforms', with giant Swastika Armbands.

- Would any Mayor of ANY western city allow that for more than a day or two?
- Would the Press refer to it as 'A Summer of Love'
- Would they be able to compel a Civic leader to come to their protest and raise a salute to a picture of the Furer?

If those same Neo-Nazis decided to go out and burn down Jewish owned Businesses

- Would it be called a mostly peaceful protest?

We know how the Media reported on the events of Charlottesville, so we have a real-world example to compare to

If in this 'Autonomous Zone', we found out that People were being Shot and Killed.

- Would this still be tolerated by the Authorities?
- Would major corporations around the world declare solidarity with the Neo-Nazis?
- Would Sporting figures be able to raise a Sieg Heil and Salute, and force their fellow sportspeople to do the same?

I could go on, but I think we both know that there is no way in hell that this would be allowed. So, if it is just 1% of the population and just a fringe, how come it was allowed?

I want to end this on one though - I've stated prior that I do believe the US Majority wouldn't allow it to happen - Hell, it's why they Elected Trump, because they were sick of the creeping encroachment of Social Justice, but just imagine that they tried something, and this time it wasn't just a couple of city blocks, it was much bigger.

And in response, People like Kyle Rittenhouse, Mr and Mrs Chadbro decided 'Fuck this', and under the full intention of the 2nd Amendment decided to fight back against the insurrectionists and the Revolutionaries:

What a bloodbath and slaughter it would be.

I'm confident that they (The communists) wouldn't win, I'm worried about at what cost.

Again, they do not even have 1% of the public support to stage a marxist revolution. Again, you HAVE to be taking the piss.

See above.

You have extremely subjective standards. A handful of right wing (and left wing) deaths in so called protests, and my God you are up and at them. An administration deliberately misinforms the public about a pandemic directly killing thousands, and you describe it as "poor handling". Breath taking ignorance imo - and that is being charitable.

That's because I consider Political Violence to be a much more grave threat. A Virus kills indiscriminately, and that is bad. A Person who chooses to kill someone else over a difference of belief or opinion - We've seen where that leads - on both the Left and the Right: Genocide, Mass-Killings on a country-wide scale. I hold that to be a much more serious threat.

If I stopped being friends with my Labour and Green supporting Mates and instead decided that the best course of action was to kill them - as a society, we've gone passed a critical point and it's downhill, very rapidly and very badly from there.

And to be clear, the fact that at the moment the main agitation is from the Left does not mean I would support it if it came from the Right. It's both bad. We need to be able to talk to each other (like we are) without killing each other.

Except inflaming a race war in his own country, a war on the consitution, and many other internal wars.

BLM predated Trump, ANTIFA predated Trump - He didn't inflame it, they didn't get their way and so they escalated it.

As I said, Trump is the reaction to the increasing encroachment of the elements of Social Justice, like I outlined above, he's not the cause of it - and to say he inflames it, is simply wrong: Each time they don't get their own way, they kick it up a notch.

So what - you appear to lose sleep over a perceived marxist threat with near zero popular support.

As above, you are vastly underestimating the threat, mainly because you are looking at this from a perspective of only a few years, I'm looking at it from a perspective of over a Decade.

Thinking about the DemonLord I met those years ago in person, I can only come to the conclusion your posts are full of shit and you are just doing a big wind up. Surely you cannot be so willfully ignorant.

I'm still just the same person, I'll say nice things about anyone if I think it's warranted - For example, there are people posting in this thread who take a polar opposite view from me on Trump, yet in other threads I'm busy green-repping them because I wholeheartedly agree with what they say.

I've made it clear I enjoy arguing and so you pays your money, you takes your choice. Admission is entirely voluntary and free.

However on the issue of Trump - Yes, I do sincerely support him, despite his many legitimate flaws - I sincerely believe that most of what is reported about him is uncharitably edited or exaggerated or removed from Context (see for example your comment about Injections vs the actual statement). This does not mean that he doesn't say or do stupid things, but on the big things (China, Social Justice, the Economy, even his style of foreign policy) he's doing a great job.

I also believe that we will see him re-elected.

On the creeping Marxist stuff - Yes, I do genuinely have concerns here - I believe I've outlined them above, I will re-iterate my challenge - set your standard of Proof, and I'd be happy to meet it.

mashman

15th October 2020, 11:24

You are pretty much preaching to the converted with me. I know the system is super corrupt, not just the US one. I know the polis are just puppets of the shadowy figures really running the show. Which makes Trumps drain the swamp statements even more laughable.

The entire system isn't super corrupt. Moral of the story: Key positions hold good people at bay with "credible" stories. As you know, who is protecting who from what is almost irrelevant unless someone is going to drain the swamp. This is where his support base is. Maybe Trump is mad enough to front such a thing. Maybe Trump is just another control mechanism. Which would you prefer given that you can do next to nothing about it? There is evidence to support both positions.

sugilite

15th October 2020, 12:00

Wall of Text
OK, I sat down and read every word you wrote carefully. Suffice to say I do not agree with much of it at all. However, unlike you, I'm self employed and do not get paid while writing kiwibiker posts. So I'm going to have to leave this argument here. I'm sure everyone else will be relieved :lol:

pritch

15th October 2020, 12:57

Sounds like a future candidate you would really like to get behind huh? :innocent:

lol. She's out on her arse. She was challenged in the primary, and having offended too many people in her home state, she was gone.

pritch

15th October 2020, 13:09

Except Biden is not my man, in other threads I have already stated my opinion he is simply too old and past it. It is the sad state of US politics that the best they can do is the two specimens running.

Bugga somebody quoted Mashman. The event he is reporting in bold is known to all and sundry. Biden was involved in influencing the removal of a corrupt poiltician. There is no come back on him except in the tiny minds of Trump and his followers.

Which is not to say Biden has never been involved in corrupt acts. He has. Just not the ones Trump, Giuliani etc, came up with.

The US press has a lot to answer for. Everytime Trump sounds off with his insane bollocks they cover it, it subsequently turns out to be nothing. Currently a series of Trump's investigations are coming to a conclusion in time for the election, and there were quite a few, but they are all coming up blank.

FJRider

15th October 2020, 14:57

There's a list of 15.

Would you care to retract your statements?

Nope ... I wasn't really interested ... :yawn:

Actually ... I couldn't give a fuck ... :no:

You have nothing better to do with your time, than answer my questions anyway ... :killingme

Have a nice day ... :yes:

FJRider

15th October 2020, 16:12

Then perhaps the focus should be on who is pulling the strings - rather than the puppet.

The puppeteer is usually out of sight. Everyone knows they are there ... but do they care ... ???

Usually ... the answer is NO.

But the watchers ... just sit back and enjoy the show.

Because it's not real ... it can't be ...

right .. ??

FJRider

15th October 2020, 17:19

OK, I sat down and read every word you wrote carefully. Suffice to say I do not agree with much of it at all. However, unlike you, I'm self employed and do not get paid while writing kiwibiker posts. So I'm going to have to leave this argument here. I'm sure everyone else will be relieved :lol:

I'm sure that post will attract infringements ... for oversize posts.

Take out the unimportant bits ... and it'll be a blank post.

Might work ...

sugilite

15th October 2020, 17:20

Hmmm, was it not just last week DL was saying there is no right wing version of ANTIFA? Yet....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlYQqHXBhaE

husaberg

15th October 2020, 17:38

Hmmm, was it not just last week DL was saying there is no right wing version of ANTIFA? Yet....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlYQqHXBhaE

Odd part of the extreme right wing are obviously facist, Antifa is supposed to be anti facist.
so wouldn't a right-wing version of an antifacist organization be a bit counterproductive?

pritch

15th October 2020, 17:39

Hmmm, was it not just last week DL was saying there is no right wing version of ANTIFA? Yet....

Did he really say that? ANTIFA arose out of a perceived need to oppose the militias and sundry other RWNJ groups. These groups are common in the US and some can attract support from neigbouring states, as did the Bundy protest.

The politicians have been largely hands off, but 'Vanilla ISIS' is the main terrorist threat in the US.

TheDemonLord

15th October 2020, 19:39

Hmmm, was it not just last week DL was saying there is no right wing version of ANTIFA? Yet....

Come now, you should know better than to attribute things to me that I've said in the past (sometimes years in the past), I've got a nasty habit of remembering what I said and being able to use the search function.

I never said there is no right wing version of ANTIFA:

I think however it is a perfect demonstration as to how small the supporter base for actual 'White Supremacy' and 'Extremists' is, and how utterly incompetent they are.

I admit they exist - but they are for the most part inconsequential, being characterized as:

Billy Bob and his 5 angry relatives in a basement, with an FBI informant.

TheDemonLord

15th October 2020, 19:40

Nope ... I wasn't really interested ... :yawn:

Actually ... I couldn't give a fuck ... :no:

You have nothing better to do with your time, than answer my questions anyway ... :killingme

Have a nice day ... :yes:

I'll take that as a retraction then, since I've met your burden of proof.

TheDemonLord

15th October 2020, 19:41

Did he really say that? ANTIFA arose out of a perceived need to oppose the militias and sundry other RWNJ groups.

Really Pritch, do we need to point out when ANTIFA was formed and that it pre-dates ANY of the supposed RWNJ Militia groups?

Remember - 2007 is BEFORE 2016

(or at least, in our linear understanding of Time...)

TheDemonLord

15th October 2020, 19:50

So, it seems Illinois is seeing sense:

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/10/14/923643265/kyle-rittenhouse-accused-kenosha-killer-wont-face-gun-charges-in-illinois

We'll see if Wisonsin decides to pursue their course of action.

FJRider

15th October 2020, 19:53

I'll take that as a retraction then, since I've met your burden of proof.

I never read it. So ... nothing proved .. ;)

Sorry.

TheDemonLord

15th October 2020, 21:35

I never read it. So ... nothing proved .. ;)

Sorry.

Then that would be a default in my favour...

jasonu

16th October 2020, 02:23

Bugga Currently a series of Trump's investigations are coming to a conclusion in time for the election, and there were quite a few, but they are all coming up blank.

What does that tell you?

pritch

16th October 2020, 08:08

Former National Security Advisor John Bolton famously said, "I'm not part of whatever drug deal Giuliani and Mulveney are cooking up." A Giuliani' "drug deal" has appeared on the front page of the New York Post, a Murdoch owned tabloid, with all that implies. Twitter and Facebook have banned the story. Twitter block the account of anyone who quotes it.

Republican politicians are outraged and want to subpoena Jack Dorsey CEO of Twitter. This after having ignored subpoenas for the last four years.

The story would have people believe the paper has "smoking gun" emails. The story, involving a blind computer tech (named Mac?), is already changing, and the emails are pdf files not actual emails so there is none of the associated electronic data that should be attached. To make the story perfect, Giuliani's source is believed to be Russian intelligence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/15/facebook-twitter-hunter-biden/

Or you could read the NY Post.

TheDemonLord

16th October 2020, 08:25

Former National Security Advisor John Bolton famously said, "I'm not part of whatever drug deal Guliani and Mulveney are cooking up." A Giuliani' "drug deal" has appeared on the front page of the New York Post, a Murdoch owned tabloid, with all that implies. Twitter and Facebook have banned the story. Twitter block the account of anyone who quotes it.

Republican politicians are outraged and want to subpoena Jack Dorsey CEO of Twitter. This after having ignored subpoenas for the last four years.

The story would have people believe the paper has "smoking gun" emails. The story, involving a blind computer tech (named Mac?), is already changing, and the emails are pdf files not actual emails so there is none of the associated electronic data that should be attached. To make the story perfect, Giuliani's source is believed to be Russian intelligence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/10/15/facebook-twitter-hunter-biden/

Or you could read the NY Post.

I'm reserving judgement on the Email story, until more information comes to light. However, Twitter and Facebook quite clearly seem to be acting as Editors, rather than a Platform.

Or perhaps an issue closer to home: Facebook disabling the Advance NZ Party Facebook page. I shall be clear, I don't like Advance NZ and I think Jamie-Lee Curtis is a twat of the highest order.

Surely, shutting down the Facebook page of another countries Political Party 3 days before a general election would be considered interfering with the Election of another sovereign nation, regardless of whether they are likely or unlikely to get into Parliament.

Whichever way you slice it, this is wrong and is likely to have repercussions.

sugilite

16th October 2020, 09:38

Come now, you should know better than to attribute things to me that I've said in the past (sometimes years in the past), I've got a nasty habit of remembering what I said and being able to use the search function.

I never said there is no right wing version of ANTIFA:

I admit they exist - but they are for the most part inconsequential, being characterized as:
OK, I'm sure in the BLM discussion you were saying there is no right wing counterparts to ANTIFA/blm prtest violence/killings etc. But I'll retract happily. :yes:

Onto other news (not directed at you)

I'm loving this shit below
"Tucker Carlson called it a "domestic spying operation" that was "hidden under the pretext of national security." Laura Ingraham characterized top Obama administration officials as having been "exposed." And Sean Hannity flatly declared it to be the "biggest abuse of power, corruption scandal" the country had ever seen."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/14/media/fox-news-unmasking-obamagate/index.html

But nope it is a big nothing.
Republicans like to make out that the Mueller report was a hoax despite listing 10 points of obstruction by Trump and multiple arrests just because Mueller chose not to indict a sitting President.
Barr comes out with a wet fart and its crickets from fox :lol:
Betting that other investigations comes up pretty much the same.
Now Trump is threatening Barr, the man that saved him from maga Russian probe fallout. And Mr Obstruction Trump now wants answers from Biden :lol:
Hilarious stuff :laugh:

But yeah, it's just the lefties press that are over the top eh :pinch:

I actually read fox news way more than the left wing mob, but mostly for the reader comments comedy. Its Magalerious! :nya:

Katman

16th October 2020, 10:41

Katman

16th October 2020, 10:42

But I'll retract happily.

You seem to be having to do that a lot these days.

sugilite

16th October 2020, 10:56

You seem to be having to do that a lot these days.
Maybe I'm one of the few around here with the courage to admit when I get things wrong.

pritch

16th October 2020, 11:19

Maybe I'm one of the few around here with the courage to admit when I get things wrong.

Sometimes you do seem a bit too keen to do that, or perhaps to see good in people where little exists.

Imagine if you will a purely hypothetical scenario where perhaps someone claimed the only reason they disliked illegal immigrants was because they were illegal. You might be inclined to respect their opinion. I on the other hand would be more inclined to think they might be full of shit. If, for instance, they were then to include words like boongahs or coons in subsequent posts, I would feel completely justified in my assessment.

You may well be a nicer person than am I. (Space left here for inane comment from the cheap seats.)

All of which is purely speculation of course.

TheDemonLord

16th October 2020, 11:51

Imagine if you will a purely hypothetical scenario where perhaps someone claimed the only reason they disliked illegal immigrants was because they were illegal. You might be inclined to respect their opinion. I on the other hand would be more inclined to think they might be full of shit.

What if the person who held that opinion was a Legal Migrant themselves, and had to spend Time, Money and Effort going through the required checks in order to Migrate.

Surely they would be entirely justified in being upset at people bypassing the system they had to go through in order to gain entry to the country.

Katman

16th October 2020, 11:58

Maybe I'm one of the few around here with the courage to admit when I get things wrong.

Well you seem to be getting plenty of practice.

jasonu

16th October 2020, 12:35

Berries

16th October 2020, 13:55

Surely, shutting down the Facebook page of another countries Political Party 3 days before a general election would be considered interfering with the Election of another sovereign nation, regardless of whether they are likely or unlikely to get into Parliament.

Whichever way you slice it, this is wrong and is likely to have repercussions.
It's only Facebook.

pritch

16th October 2020, 14:10

I'm reserving judgement on the Email story, until more information comes to light. However, Twitter and Facebook quite clearly seem to be acting as Editors, rather than a Platform.

Or perhaps an issue closer to home: Facebook disabling the Advance NZ Party Facebook page. I shall be clear, I don't like Advance NZ and I think Jamie-Lee Curtis is a twat of the highest order.

Surely, shutting down the Facebook page of another countries Political Party 3 days before a general election would be considered interfering with the Election of another sovereign nation, regardless of whether they are likely or unlikely to get into Parliament.

Whichever way you slice it, this is wrong and is likely to have repercussions.

You may be indulging in a bit of hysterical pearl clutching there. Both facebook and Twitter have frequently been criticised for their "hands off" policy. Both are aware that times are far from normal. They've had brain storming sessions in an effort to predict possible serious aberrant behaviour during the US election. Both have now come up with a list of topics which will be immediately blocked. One quoted example is if "someone" was to prematurely declare victory in the upcoming election, that will be instantly shut down.

That they did something similar to an NZ political party is interesting, the stated reason that Advance NZ were repeatedly spreading misnformation about COVID19 sounds OK to me. That has caused major problems in the US and was starting to be adopted by our local idiot fringe.

TheDemonLord

16th October 2020, 14:32

You may be indulging in a bit of hysterical pearl clutching there.

I'm not sure how you can class it as hysterical pearl clutching, when they actually did it.

Both facebook and Twitter have frequently been criticised for their "hands off" policy.

By Whom?

Oh, you mean by the rabid left-wing Twitterazzi and verified blue-check marks who are constantly calling for opinions they don't like to be censored.

YBoth are aware that times are far from normal. They've had brain storming sessions in an effort to predict possible serious aberrant behaviour during the US election. Both have now come up with a list of topics which will be immediately blocked. One quoted example is if "someone" was to prematurely declare victory in the upcoming election, that will be instantly shut down.

That they did something similar to an NZ political party is interesting, the stated reason that Advance NZ were repeatedly spreading misnformation about COVID19 sounds OK to me. That has caused major problems in the US and was starting to be adopted by our local idiot fringe.

It's really simple:

"We are not Publishers, we are not the arbiter of what is True or False, it's up to individual users to decide for themselves. We will continue to mitigate the spread of illegal content and that's it"

But I digress, all they are doing is making a Rod for their own back and when the legislation happens and they start complaining, I'll be standing there, smiling and whispering:

"We warned you this would happen and you didn't listen, and now you've got what you deserve"

TheDemonLord

16th October 2020, 14:33

It's only Facebook.

Except it's now become a primary means for all Political Parties to engage with their voter base.

sugilite

16th October 2020, 15:07

Well you seem to be getting plenty of practice.
Ok Mr perfect, so the bonez apology, and the demonlord misquote - what else?

sugilite

16th October 2020, 15:24

Sometimes you do seem a bit too keen to do that, or perhaps to see good in people where little exists.

Imagine if you will a purely hypothetical scenario where perhaps someone claimed the only reason they disliked illegal immigrants was because they were illegal. You might be inclined to respect their opinion. I on the other hand would be more inclined to think they might be full of shit. If, for instance, they were then to include words like boongahs or coons in subsequent posts, I would feel completely justified in my assessment.

You may well be a nicer person than am I. (Space left here for inane comment from the cheap seats.)

All of which is purely speculation of course.

The way I look at it is I cannot control what others do and say, I can only be responsible for what I say and do. If I get it wrong, then I admit it. My response is not dependent on whether the other person is a rat bag or not.
If people want to give me a hard time about my being honest and owning up to a mistake, I view it as a weakness/flaw in their character - not mine.
Less honesty rarely makes the World a better place.

FJRider

16th October 2020, 16:07

Or perhaps an issue closer to home: Facebook disabling the Advance NZ Party Facebook page. I shall be clear, I don't like Advance NZ and I think Jamie-Lee Curtis is a twat of the highest order.

Surely, shutting down the Facebook page of another countries Political Party 3 days before a general election would be considered interfering with the Election of another sovereign nation, regardless of whether they are likely or unlikely to get into Parliament.

Whichever way you slice it, this is wrong and is likely to have repercussions.

Facebook has rules ... Just like KB. Facebook just doesn't have a pink palace ... like KB.

Just what "Repercussions" are you expecting ...???

Advance New Zealand's Facebook account had been removed for repeatedly breaching the misinformation policies.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/428424/advance-nz-party-s-facebook-account-closed-after-breaches?fbclid=IwAR04m8jm944ZsclD6QCorCdRU3coOidM w0izCFaXABlmIxgYAA08sNi_Few

A Facebook spokesperson told RNZ: "We don't allow anyone to share misinformation on our platforms about Covid-19 that could lead to imminent physical harm. We have clear policies against this type of content and will enforce on these policies regardless of anyone's political position or party affiliation.

"We removed Advance New Zealand / New Zealand Public Party's Facebook page for repeated violations of this policy."

"interfering with the Election of another sovereign nation" ... really .. ?? If they're relying on a Facebook page to spread their misinformation ... no wonder the page got pulled. Next you'll be saying ... it's not their fault.

And the Advance Party reply ...

"If Facebook wants advertising revenue from New Zealanders, then Facebook must recognise free speech in our nation," Te Kahika says.

Perhaps ... Free speech isn't as free (on Facebook) as some of the Advance Party leadership thought it was.

If they Paid for "Advertising" ... perhaps they should ask for their money back.

OR ... just follow the rules.

Just saying ...

pritch

16th October 2020, 16:12

I'm not sure how you can class it as hysterical pearl clutching, when they actually did it.

It was of no great consequence. Anyhoo Twitter have buckled.

The rule that caused them to act in this instance was a rule about people posting hacked material as happened during the 2016 election. They acted this time in the belief that the materiel Giuliani provded was potentially hacked. Threats of a Senate subpoena appear to have caused Jack's spine to soften. They will still block material from hackers but hacked material from an intermediary will simply attract a warning label.

I'm not sure that pdf files purporting to be emails, but which more probably came form a GRU unit in Moscow and fed to a willing useful idiot, actually qualify as hacked.

Time will tell, but like all of Trump's other whining about being a victim of the 'greatest political crime in history' this too will likely fizzle.

sugilite

16th October 2020, 19:47

So it was dueling town halls for Trump and Biden. I was curious about the ratings - figuring Trump would of cleaned up in that area. I know the below is unlikely to be super accurate, but a interesting indicator none the less.

"At the end of Trump's town hall, the NBC News YouTube channel showed 153,660 viewers were watching. ABC News's YouTube channel showed 507,445 viewers at the end of Biden's town hall."
https://www.newsweek.com/youtube-views-suggest-biden-hit-trump-where-it-hurts-him-mostratings-1539635

Looks like people are over it after 4 seasons of the low budget reality tv show "President Trump".
Who can blame them :yes:

pritch

16th October 2020, 20:10

FJRider

16th October 2020, 20:40

Sometimes you do seem a bit too keen to do that, or perhaps to see good in people where little exists.

It's called "giving the benefit of doubt". Sometimes we know they're right ... (but prefer they weren't) But ... sometimes you know they are right. And know you are wrong. The action then taken is up to their own personal principals. If the person concerned has any.

Sometimes ... we know the other might be lying ... but we have to give them the benefit of the doubt and accept what they say ... for now.

Well ... until we find (or look for) the evidence to prove them wrong.

FJRider

16th October 2020, 20:55

Except it's now become a primary means for all Political Parties to engage with their voter base.

Don't they have telephones ... ?? ;)

TheDemonLord

16th October 2020, 21:15

It was of no great consequence.

On the Contrary, they've opened Pandoras Box.

Anyhoo Twitter have buckled.

And why do you think that is? The rule they cited as to why the blocked it pertained to information obtained and circulated without permission.

Did Twitter block any reference to the Trump Tax returns? I'm certain that was information obtained and circulated without Permission. So why the disparity - why is Trump's Tax returns allowed but Biden's emails not?

Therein lies the political bias within Twitter (and other Social Media companies) and the reason they buckled is because they know they've fucked up. They have definitively acted with an editorial oversight - and now, like the wayward schoolboy, they are being summoned to the HeadMasters office.

TheDemonLord

16th October 2020, 21:32

Facebook has rules ... Just like KB. Facebook just doesn't have a pink palace ... like KB.

Just what "Repercussions" are you expecting ...???

Advance New Zealand's Facebook account had been removed for repeatedly breaching the misinformation policies.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/428424/advance-nz-party-s-facebook-account-closed-after-breaches?fbclid=IwAR04m8jm944ZsclD6QCorCdRU3coOidM w0izCFaXABlmIxgYAA08sNi_Few

When it comes to a Political Party, in an Election cycle, even if it is 'misinformation', Facebook interfere at their Peril.

"interfering with the Election of another sovereign nation" ... really .. ?? If they're relying on a Facebook page to spread their misinformation ... no wonder the page got pulled. Next you'll be saying ... it's not their fault.

Like it or not, Facebook is a place were political discussion is being held, It's the same logic that Trump's Twitter is protected under the 1st Amendment.

Regardless of their justification, rules or not - they have censured a Political Party, at a crucial time and this is an absolute violation of one of the most sacred values held in the Western world (despite certain group's best efforts).

And the Advance Party reply ...

Perhaps ... Free speech isn't as free (on Facebook) as some of the Advance Party leadership thought it was.

If they Paid for "Advertising" ... perhaps they should ask for their money back.

OR ... just follow the rules.

Just saying ...

Imagine for a moment that Advance NZ were polling around the 4-5% mark - with a reasonable chance of getting into Government, the Election happens (after their FB page is shutdown) and they get 3% of the Vote.

Polls are inaccurate (2016 anyone?) - but on that basis, they lodge a complaint, that this removal by a corporate entity directly influenced the election and their place in the Government.

It firstly casts light on the Legitimacy of the Election result, for the same reason that on Polling day you aren't allowed to indicate who you voted for or to express support for a Candidate.

Secondly - it sets a precedent, that a non-NZ Corporate entity can directly influence our Election - I don't know about you, but I don't particularly want to vote using a McBallot, in the 2023 election brought to you by Microsoft! and Budight, all of the flavour, with none of the Calories.

As I said, I don't like Advance as a party - this course of action should not be considered lightly.

pritch

16th October 2020, 21:39

On the Contrary, they've opened Pandoras Box.

Nah you've got it all wrong. Again.

I was looking for this earlier today but couldn't find it. It sums uo the situation in the USA with regards to freedom of speech and social media.

FJRider

17th October 2020, 06:55

When it comes to a Political Party, in an Election cycle, even if it is 'misinformation', Facebook interfere at their Peril.

Apart from the fact they knew (and have to follow) the rules ... you didn't say what "Repercussions" you were expecting.

None so far that I've noticed. What "Peril" ... Will thousands abandon facebook ... ???? Unlikely.

Like it or not, Facebook is a place were political discussion is being held, It's the same logic that Trump's Twitter is protected under the 1st Amendment.

So ... stopping some discussions on facebook is "Interfering with an election" ... ??? in YOUR opinion ... ??

I've seen a few "Political Discussions" on facebook. Nobody is going to miss much of real importance. All the Advance Party information is freely available elsewhere ... if those interested want to look.

Regardless of their justification, rules or not - they have censured a Political Party, at a crucial time and this is an absolute violation of one of the most sacred values held in the Western world (despite certain group's best efforts).

With good reason. If their Political aim is to spread misinformation ... it shouldn't be a party worth voting for.

Imagine for a moment that Advance NZ were polling around the 4-5% mark - with a reasonable chance of getting into Government, the Election happens (after their FB page is shutdown) and they get 3% of the Vote.

I haven't got the vivid imagination you have. Sorry. If you actually believe half the stuff you've posted on this ... it's probably the party best suited for you.

Polls are inaccurate (2016 anyone?) - but on that basis, they lodge a complaint, that this removal by a corporate entity directly influenced the election and their place in the Government.

Get on facebook yourself and moan about it. Polls are seldom accurate. Get over it. Shooting yourself in the foot (as the Advance party did) always slows you down.

It firstly casts light on the Legitimacy of the Election result, for the same reason that on Polling day you aren't allowed to indicate who you voted for or to express support for a Candidate.

Tell somebody that cares to think that might be the case.

The Public outcry throughout the country is not front page news in all the papers yet. Why would that be ... if the issue you claim was that serious ... ?? It's not. So there isn't.

Secondly - it sets a precedent, that a non-NZ Corporate entity can directly influence our Election - I don't know about you, but I don't particularly want to vote using a McBallot, in the 2023 election brought to you by Microsoft! and Budight, all of the flavour, with none of the Calories.

Exactly. The precedent is ... that if you break the rules ... under the guise of advertising ... you can EXPECT a similar action.

As I said, I don't like Advance as a party - this course of action should not be considered lightly.

Is the political message the Advance Party are trying to make ... considered by them to be just "Advertising" ... ??

Is trying to spread misinformation considered good advertising policy ... ??

I doubt if it was considered lightly. But they have their rules.

Your point is ... ??

pritch

17th October 2020, 08:17

It's the same logic that Trump's Twitter is protected under the 1st Amendment.

The first amandment is complicated. I've listened to a number of legal discusslons by qualified people but that didn't make it much easier.

The 1A protects the right of people, particularly the press, to criticise the government. In effect Trump is the government, is it your contention that the 1A protects him from himself?

There are seperate laws about presidential communications governing Trumps Twitter. He is supposed to keep everything, he is not supposed to delete tweets. Courts have made rulings about people replying to Trump's tweets. When Trump tweets he opens a virtual "public space" comparable to a park or village square where anybody may speak.

Too many people in the US think freedom of speech means they can say anything, that's wrong. That cartoon is a good summation, it's worth a careful read.

pritch

17th October 2020, 08:30

Oh, and just before I go to do my civic duty. In the ratings battle of the two town halls, Trump who was covered by three channels vs Biden who was covered by a single channel, Trump lost the ratings battle. His worst nightmare - bad ratings. Loser.

pritch

17th October 2020, 13:08

husaberg

17th October 2020, 13:37

The thought of Trump going to jail would make my little heart beat glad. The people at the top though, tend to look after each other. iI Trump went to jail the implication would be that they too could go to jail. That idea will not appeal to them.

Y'all may not remember Joh Bjelke Petersen, the former premier of Queensland. When he was appearing in court on perjury chages after the scandal that finished his career he couldn't remember a damned thing. A short time before that he was top dog in Queensland, but suddenly his memory vaished, just like magic.

Trump would be different, his memory is barely functioning now, but even at it's best wasn't all that great. He's a fucking moron.

On an unrelated note: There is news today that one of Mueller's key men has a new job, he has joined the New York Attorney General who is currently investigating Trump for fraud. This investigation may be the most immediate threat to Trump.

Any conviction of trump would just result in a pardon from the next Republican President.
You can imagine the list of pardons trump has lined up already for his cronies if he gets booted.

Pardons
May 31, 2018 Campaign finance violations In 2014, conservative commentator D'Souza pleaded guilty to making illegal campaign contributions to the 2012 Senate campaign of his Republican friend, Wendy Long

May 15, 2019 Conrad Black Mail fraud and attempted obstruction of justice Former media mogul, current friend, supporter and biographer of President TrumpConviction reviewed by the Supreme Court in Black v. United States; convictions later upheld. Released from prison in 2014 and deported to Canada where he was born

May 15, 2019 Pat Nolan Racketeering Former Republican lawmaker who pled guilty to soliciting for illegal campaign donations after being caught by the Shrimpscam sting operation by the FBI. Ultimately served 26 months; released in 1996 and became an activist for criminal-justice reform.

February 18, 2020 Michael Milken Conspiracy; securities fraud; mail fraud; tax fraud; filing false reports with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC); assisting a brokerage firm in violating its net capital requirements In pardoning financier Milken, Trump cited his charitable work after his release from prison. Milken's separate, SEC-imposed lifetime ban on securities trading continues.

February 18, 2020 Angela Stanton Conspiracy to transport in interstate commerce a stolen motor vehicle and tampering with a vehicle identification number (VIN) (17 counts) Angela Stanton ran in the 2020 election as a Republican against Representative John Lewis and then to fill his seat after Lewis's death.

February 18, 2020 David Hossein Safavian Obstruction of justice and perjury (three counts) Safavian is a Republican former lawyer and long-time associate of lobbyist Jack Abramoff. Through much of his career, he alternated between government roles and Washington lobbyist roles, in what is known as the "revolving door". He was serving as Administrator for Federal Procurement Policy, Office of Management and Budget, when he was arrested in connection with the Jack Abramoff Indian lobbying scandal.
February 18, 2020 Paul Pogue Pogue, the founder and executive of McKinney, Texas-based construction company Pogue Construction, pleaded guilty in 2010 for under-reporting his taxable income in 2004, 2005 and 2006, failing to pay more than $400,000 taxes owed. In 2019, Pogue's son Ben Pogue and daughter-in-law Ashleigh Pogue gave a total of $238,541 to Trump Victory, a vehicle for Trump's reelection campaign. Former Republican Senator Rick Santorum was a leading advocate for Pogue's pardon; Paul Pogue had been a contributor to Santorum's presidential election bid.

February 18, 2020 Bernard Kerik Obstructing the administration of the Internal Revenue Laws; aiding in the preparation of a false income tax return; making false statements on a loan application; making false statements (five counts) Kerik, the former New York City police commissioner, has been a contributor to Fox News.

Commutations
February 18, 2020 wire fraud (10 counts); conspiracy/attempted extortion (four counts); corrupt solicitation of funds; conspiracy to corruptly solicit funds (two counts); making false statements Former governor of Illinois and contestant on Trump's reality TV show, The Celebrity Apprentice. Convicted of attempting to sell the Senate seat vacated by Barack Obama, plus extortion by withholding state funds being directed towards a children's hospital and a race track.The Illinois House impeached him for abuse of power and corruption. In two separate and unanimous votes of the Illinois Senate, he was removed from office and prohibited from ever holding public office in the state of Illinois again. See also: Rod Blagojevich corruption charges

July 10, 2020 Roger Stone Making false statements to Congress (five counts)
Witness tampering
Obstructing an official proceeding Stone is a friend and adviser of Trump, who was a member of Trump's 2016 presidential campaign. In November 2019, Stone was convicted by a jury on all seven charges that he faced, in relation to his actions during the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections. The sentencing judge stated that Stone had been "prosecuted for covering up for the president"—Trump himself. In June 2020, around a month before the commutation, Trump had declared that Stone "can sleep well at night!" At the time of the commutation, Stone had been scheduled to report to federal prison around a week later

pritch

17th October 2020, 17:00

Any conviction of trump would just result in a pardon from the next Republican President.
You can imagine the list of pardons trump has lined up already for his cronies if he gets booted.

There might well be a raft of them. D'Souza I know about, he is an out spoken Trump supporter on social media who is usually immediately informed that he's a convicted felon.

Under US law, as established by the Supreme Court, accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt. The following clip shows Sheriff Arpaio learning that he cannot appeal his conviction because accepting a pardon ends the case. The interviewer, Ari Melber, is himself a lawyer, but the information he's using is from a SCOTUS decision.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WBW17l6XfQ

onearmedbandit

17th October 2020, 17:28

Posts removed and 7 infractions handed out. You all can't say you weren't warned.

TheDemonLord

17th October 2020, 19:50

When Trump tweets he opens a virtual "public space" comparable to a park or village square where anybody may speak.

Close, but not quite, what the ruling was specifically that Trump blocking people on his Twitter violated their first Amendment rights to petition the president where public political discussions where happening.

A party Facebook page is no different.

But linking back to US politics, what they've done is undermined their status as a platform, by making an editorial decision.

By doing so, that removes the legal protection they have from being sued for the content their users post.

pete376403

17th October 2020, 20:15

husaberg

17th October 2020, 20:27

Trump seems to have posts removed, as they are untrue.
its not censorship to stop someone from posting material that is clearly made up.
Besides The platforms are also privately owned they can ban or delete anything they wish.
Its not like they are a News outlet and have to provide factual information unless they are FOX.

TheDemonLord

17th October 2020, 20:28

its not censorship to stop someone from posting material that is clearly made up.

That is exactly the Censorship....

pritch

17th October 2020, 20:33

Close, but not quite, what the ruling was specifically that Trump blocking people on his Twitter violated their first Amendment rights to petition the president where public political discussions where happening.

I got my information from lawyers in the US. I trust it won't offend you if I believe them.

pritch

17th October 2020, 20:45

if trump tweets fake news does that make it true? A satirical website, the Babylon Bee ('Fake news you can trust') posted an article that twitter was shut down to avoid bad reports about Joe Biden. Trump tweeted the article (but wasn't Twitter shut down?) https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8847903/Trump-tweets-satire-websites-claim-Twitter-shut-slow-spread-negative-Biden-news.html

This should be simple but it isn't. Problem is that traditionally, if the president said something it was considered important, and was reported. This president talks insane nonsense but the press don't report that lest it would be perceived as biased. Still though, his less insane utterances have import and get coverage because he is the president.

Overall the impression given is that he is a bit odd but more or less normal. That is completely misleading. The lights are on but clearly there's nobody home.

TheDemonLord

17th October 2020, 20:57

I got my information from lawyers in the US. I trust it won't offend you if I believe them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight_First_Amendment_Institute_v._Trump

Either you misread it or didn't understand.

But feel free to re-read it, I won't be offended if you correct your misunderstanding...

pritch

17th October 2020, 22:03

Either you misread it or didn't understand.

There is zero chance I misread anything. It's possible I may have misunderstood, but then I didn't get it from Wikipedia either.

It's all stll under review apparently. Last night our time a judge challenged the White House counsel as to who he should be paying attention to. Trump, who was saying one thing on Twitter, or the White House counsel who was saying the opposite in court?

TheDemonLord

18th October 2020, 16:58

There is zero chance I misread anything. It's possible I may have misunderstood, but then I didn't get it from Wikipedia either.

I didn't get it from Wikipedia either...

But seeing as when you tried to understand the Lawyers, you got it wrong, I thought a more easily understood format was applicable.

pritch

18th October 2020, 18:11

I didn't get it from Wikipedia either...

But seeing as when you tried to understand the Lawyers, you got it wrong, I thought a more easily understood format was applicable.

Update. Having read it yet again, what you are saying is "as well as" rather than "instead of." Nothing I said was wrong, and I don't disagree with what you're saying.

Viking01

19th October 2020, 09:58

Andrew Cockburn posted a report in the November issue of Harper’s Magazine on secret Presidential Emergency Action Documents (PEADs) that “implement extraordinary presidential authority in response to extraordinary situations.” They were not on the public’s radar “until Donald Trump started to brag about them.”

https://harpers.org/archive/2020/11/the-enemies-briefcase-secret-powers-of-the-presidency/

pritch

20th October 2020, 08:27

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell 1984

If you make it to the end of this report the reason for the quote wil be apparent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-fauci-campaign-biden/2020/10/19/30b2fe58-1226-11eb-82af-864652063d61_story.html

TheDemonLord

20th October 2020, 08:52

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." - George Orwell 1984

Indeed....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1mxJMIIMuE

pritch

20th October 2020, 13:34

Katman

20th October 2020, 14:07

If that has a familiar ring to it, and it should, that's exactly the sort of quid pro quo that got him impeached.

He probably knows just how easily it triggers TDS in some people.

TheDemonLord

20th October 2020, 14:44

If that has a familiar ring to it, and it should, that's exactly the sort of quid pro quo that Biden and Family appear to have been doing

See, it works both ways.

pritch

20th October 2020, 15:43

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-accuses-new-zealands-prime-minister-of-competently-handling-the-coronavirus-to-get-reelected

Viking01

20th October 2020, 17:48

https://jackrasmus.com/2020/10/19/a-short-history-of-the-on-again-off-again-fiscal-stimulus-negotiations/

husaberg

20th October 2020, 18:43

Grumph

20th October 2020, 19:47

There's a very recent clip on Twitter but it doesn't translate to here and it's not on YouTube yet.

At last nights rally the most stupid president in history was talking about raising campaign finance. He said he could ring Exxon and ask how their exploration programme was going, and they might reply they needed some permits. He said he'd then ring the Exxon CEO and ask for a favour, say 25 million paid to his campaign.

If that has a familiar ring to it, and it should, that's exactly the sort of quid pro quo that got him impeached.

I note that Exxon Mobil has issued a statement saying that it had never happened. Not, you'd notice, that it could not happen....

I see that the last debate will feature mute buttons on the mic's.

I have this vision of world leaders gathered with close friends to watch the debate - and turning it into a drinking game...."Angela, another schnapps ! He's been muted again !"

husaberg

20th October 2020, 19:57

I note that Exxon Mobil has issued a statement saying that it had never happened. Not, you'd notice, that it could not happen....

I see that the last debate will feature mute buttons on the mic's.

I have this vision of world leaders gathered with close friends to watch the debate - and turning it into a drinking game...."Angela, another schnapps ! He's been muted again !"

Mute buttons will not work, he will just walk over to the other microphone or just yell louder.
https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161009232148-trump-clinton-debate-st-louis-obamacare-sot-00002122-super-169.jpg
His supporters will lap it up as you know being a rude arrogant idiot troll is the ultimate in republican leadership these days.

The only way to shut trump up is to state him of oxygen<marquee behavior="slide" direction="left"scrollamount="3">Preferably with a rope.</marquee>

pritch

21st October 2020, 08:17

Mute buttons will not work, he will just walk over to the other microphone or just yell louder.

The preparation these guys undergo prior to a debate is thorough. They should have a plan for that. Well normally it's thorough, Trump didn't think he needed to bother but Christie did work with him a bit. It was Christie who recommended Trump interrupt all the time trying to get Biden to stutter so they could blame that on dementia.

Why Christie keeps sucking up to Trump is a mystery, originally as a former Governor of New Jersey he had hoped for something big in Trump's cabinet. He may have forgotten that years earlier he had jailed Jared Kushner's father, but Jared Kushner certainy hadn't. After some humiliation he was let go. Several times since he's returned briefly only to be rejected again.

pritch

21st October 2020, 11:43

Pat Robertson, an ancient evangelist, has said God told him that Trump will win the election, and that the end of days will follow.
That does seem an odd incentive to offer his flock to get them to vote for Trump?

Robertson is 90 and may have forgotten that while he is allowed to talk to God, if he hears God talking to him he could be headed for a padded cell.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/2020/10/20/televangelist-pat-robertson-predicts-trump-win-end-world/5996435002/

pritch

21st October 2020, 15:16

Trump has been referring to Biden as "China Joe." We should all be aware by now that Trump is huge on projection, when he is accusing somebody of something, he is normally guilty of doing exactly that same thing himself.

The New York Times has broken a story that Trump has a bank account in China and used it to pursue business interests there. Of course his daughter Ivanka has been applying for and receiving trademarks in China since he became president.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/20/politics/trump-china-taxes-financial-records/index.html

Stylo

21st October 2020, 17:16

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-accuses-new-zealands-prime-minister-of-competently-handling-the-coronavirus-to-get-reelected

That's satire . I'm not a Trump supporter by any means because I don't suffer liars or narcissists .

But. That is fake news . You're as bad as Donald in this instance.

Must do better. Grain of salt now with you Pritch.

husaberg

21st October 2020, 17:27

That's satire . I'm not a Trump supporter by any means because I don't suffer liars or narcissists .

But. That is fake news . You're as bad as Donald in this instance.

Must do better. Grain of salt now with you Pritch.

its clearly a satire it's a very funny one at that, it even says humour in the link..............:lol:

both pitch and myself and others have posted from the same page before

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread?p=1131006881&highlight=Borowitz+Report#post1131006881

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread/page400?p=1131139118#post1131139118

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/109015-Friday-jokes?p=1131107032&highlight=Borowitz+Report#post1131107032

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131015411&highlight=Borowitz+Report#post1131015411

Stylo

21st October 2020, 18:05

its clearly a satire it's a very funny one at that, it even says humour in the link..............:lol:

both pitch and myself and others have posted from the same page before

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread?p=1131006881&highlight=Borowitz+Report#post1131006881

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread/page400?p=1131139118#post1131139118

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/109015-Friday-jokes?p=1131107032&highlight=Borowitz+Report#post1131107032

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/140713-Stupid-World?p=1131015411&highlight=Borowitz+Report#post1131015411

Note to self. I must be more attentive in class. Can do better.

Thanks for that.

husaberg

21st October 2020, 18:12

Note to myself. I must be more attentive in class. Can do better.

Thanks for that.

Hey if you had of started with a small loan of a hundred and twenty million dollars you two would be the healthiest and smartest president ever.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-cee0b6df2d1f9589c2395d1e5aaecb03

pritch

21st October 2020, 19:30

That's satire .

Exactly, it is satire. I was giving KBers the benefit of the doubt.

pritch

21st October 2020, 19:54

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kjMlxBQtGg

pritch

22nd October 2020, 08:01

The schadenfreude is strong in this one.

Rudy Giuliani former US Attorney for the SDNY, former Mayor of New York, unpaid attorney to Donald Trump, US head of cyber security, and useful idiot for Putin's GRU, FSB etc, has a bit part in Borat 2 due to be released in the USA Friday. A bedroom scene with a "fifteen year old girl."

And yes, I did burst out laughing when I read about that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2020/10/21/borat-sequel-rudy-giuliani-sacha-baron-cohen/

TheDemonLord

22nd October 2020, 14:25

To give a different perspective - and to answer a challenge that has been leveled at both myself directly and more generally about Conservatives not critiquing Trump, here's a Clip of Ben Shapiro (very Conservative commentator) on why he will be voting for Trump in 2020.

I should note, whilst I enjoy Ben's delivery and his view on some issues, there are quite a number where he and I differ greatly. If you want to skip to the Critique, it starts at around 2:20, and goes for about 2 minutes.

The first part gives his support of Trump on his Policy success,
2nd part is his critique on Trump,
3rd part is basically him attacking the current Democrat platform and why voting against this is (in his opinion) a necessity.
He re-iterates his critique of Trump at about the 8:20 mark and makes the argument as to why this is the lesser of 2 evils.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7Xj3tYFKks

pritch

23rd October 2020, 08:19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg9LpQE8zh8

TheDemonLord

23rd October 2020, 08:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xg9LpQE8zh8

Interesting...

The Youtube video: Putin is killing American soldiers, Trump does nothing
which cites;
CNN: The Russians have a bounty system for killing American soldiers
which cites;
The NYTimes: Anonymous sources believe that there is evidence for Russia paying the Taliban to kill US troops
which cites;
An un-verified CIA report which raises the possibility but (given this was back in July) has yet to be verified, is contested within the CIA and doesn't have sufficient supporting evidence.

This is the very definition of 'Fake News' - we've got the original source Document in the CIA, which although we can't read it, it isn't being regarded as verified, this leads to an Anonymous source leaking to the Press, saying that based on that document they believe this is happening, this leads to CNN referring to the anonymous belief as an objective fact and running the story, which leads to a Youtube Video that is built on a pyramid.

This doesn't mean that this definitively isn't happening, I don't know - but this is a perfect demonstration of a failure of left-wing journalists to properly vet a story and their willingness to self-refer, if it means they get to take a swipe at the President.

R650R

23rd October 2020, 10:24

There's a very recent clip on Twitter but it doesn't translate to here and it's not on YouTube yet.

At last nights rally the most stupid president in history was talking about raising campaign finance. He said he could ring Exxon and ask how their exploration programme was going, and they might reply they needed some permits. He said he'd then ring the Exxon CEO and ask for a favour, say 25 million paid to his campaign.

If that has a familiar ring to it, and it should, that's exactly the sort of quid pro quo that got him impeached.

Not sure if you watched the real clip or one edited and cherry picked by some leftist commentator with Trump Detangement syndrome...

But what you post is a misquoted deliberate lie.
In the full clip he was saying how he does things for American and not for money, he mentioned his business contacts and how Washington works to illustrate how easily he could ask for money like that but chooses NOT to.

pritch

23rd October 2020, 10:37

husaberg

23rd October 2020, 11:32

Not sure if you watched the real clip or one edited and cherry picked by some leftist commentator with Trump Detangement syndrome...

But what you post is a misquoted deliberate lie.
In the full clip he was saying how he does things for American and not for money, he mentioned his business contacts and how Washington works to illustrate how easily he could ask for money like that but chooses NOT to.

If you are going to accuse someone of quoting a lie produce some evidence or at least what the quote was and when............

Donald Trump on Monday said he could “raise a billion dollars” for his election campaign in exchange for giving companies government favours "if he wanted to”.

Mr Trump suggested he could be “the greatest fundraiser in history” – if only he was corrupt.
“So I call the head of Exxon — I don’t know, I’ll use a company,” he said. “‘Hi, how are you doing? How’s energy coming? When are you doing the exploration? Oh, you need a couple of permits, huh? Okay.”
“But I call the head of Exxon, I say, ‘You know, I’d love you to send me $25 million for the campaign.’ ‘Absolutely sir, why didn’t you ask? Would you like some more?'”

After a clip of the comments was widely shared online, ExxonMobil responded with a statement saying no such call has taken place between Mr Trump and its CEO, Darren Woods

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_VNq1Hjow

TheDemonLord

23rd October 2020, 11:49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_VNq1Hjow

"I could, but I don't want to do that"

So, you prove R650R correct in his statement that it is not a statement of:

"I have done this"

but a statement of:

"I could do this, but I (with the implied moral virtue of resisting temptation) choose not to"

And then people like you wonder why people like me ignore all the Media's claims about 'Trump Lies'

pritch

23rd October 2020, 13:34

"I could, but I don't want to do that"

So, you prove R650R correct in his statement that it is not a statement of:

"I have done this"

but a statement of:

"I could do this, but I (with the implied moral virtue of resisting temptation) choose not to"

And then people like you wonder why people like me ignore all the Media's claims about 'Trump Lies'

Sadly that does appear to be the case. When I posted my comment it was very early in the piece, I had seen a clip that said what I quoted. As I said, it was not yet available on YouTube. I prefer to post things that are accurate, it seems this time that was not the case. We could do without the gratuitously offensive bollocks though.

You would be much better informed if you believed the media over Trump. He is now producing false statements faster than the fact checkers can keep up. It would be more accurate to assume everything he says is a lie.

pritch

23rd October 2020, 16:04

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/22/politics/fact-check-final-presidential-election-debate/index.html

husaberg

23rd October 2020, 17:20

Sadly that does appear to be the case. When I posted my comment it was very early in the piece, I had seen a clip that said what I quoted. As I said, it was not yet available on YouTube. I prefer to post things that are accurate, it seems this time that was not the case. We could do without the gratuitously offensive bollocks though.

You would be much better informed if you believed the media over Trump. He is now producing false statements faster than the fact checkers can keep up. It would be more accurate to assume everything he says is a lie.

this is what you posted

There's a very recent clip on Twitter but it doesn't translate to here and it's not on YouTube yet.

At last nights rally the most stupid president in history was talking about raising campaign finance. He said he could ring Exxon and ask how their exploration programme was going, and they might reply they needed some permits. He said he'd then ring the Exxon CEO and ask for a favour, say 25 million paid to his campaign.

If that has a familiar ring to it, and it should, that's exactly the sort of quid pro quo that got him impeached.

He said these words.
You never said he did it in your post . I can't see what you have allegedly done wrong.

Not sure if you watched the real clip or one edited and cherry picked by some leftist commentator with Trump Detangement syndrome...

But what you post is a misquoted deliberate lie.
In the full clip, he was saying how he does things for American and not for money, he mentioned his business contacts and how Washington works to illustrate how easily he could ask for money like that but chooses NOT to.

Sadly that does appear to be the case. When I posted my comment it was very early in the piece, I had seen a clip that said what I quoted. As I said, it was not yet available on YouTube. I prefer to post things that are accurate, it seems this time that was not the case. We could do without the gratuitously offensive bollocks though.
You would be much better informed if you believed the media over Trump. He is now producing false statements faster than the fact checkers can keep up. It would be more accurate to assume everything he says is a lie.

trumps donors

Warren Stephens, Stephens Inc. - $1.5 million
He is the chairman, president, and CEO of the privately held financial services firm, which was started in 1933 by his uncle. He was chosen to be part of Trump's Great American Economic Revival Industry Groups (Financial Services) in April 2020.

Stephen Schwarzman, The Blackstone Group - $3 million
The billionaire investor and close friend of the president is the chairman, CEO and co-founder of publicly-traded investment firm Blackstone Group. He was chosen to be part of Trump's Great American Economic Revival Industry Groups (Financial Services) in April 2020.

Linda McMahon, America First Action - $4.5 million
McMahon is famous for co-founding the WWE franchise with her husband Vince. She ran the Small Business Administration from 2017-2019 and is currently the chair of the America First Action super PAC.

Geoffrey Palmer, G.H. Palmer Associates - $6 million
Palmer is a real estate magnate whose buildings in Los Angeles are known for their characteristic "fauxtalian" style. He was chosen to be part of Trump's Great American Economic Revival Industry Groups (Construction/Labor/Workforce) in April 2020

Adelson Clinic for Drug Abuse Treatment & Research $37,500,000
The Republican casino magnate is fighting measures that would legalize pot recreationally
SHELDON ADELSON, THE politically influential billionaire and Donald Trump supporter, is bankrolling the fight against marijuana legalization measures on several state ballots this year. Meanwhile, Adelson the philanthropist gave money to research that supports the medical use of marijuana.

Las Vegas Sands $37,515,519
SHELDON ADELSON is the founder, chairman and chief executive officer of Las Vegas Sands Corporation
yes the same dude is giving trump 75 million dollars.
it just so happens he doesn't want dope to be made legal............

pritch

23rd October 2020, 19:33

husaberg

23rd October 2020, 19:38

People in this country just don't understand how much money some people have. Adelson, a lobbyist for Israel, just gave Trump US$70 million dollars for his failing campaign. That's over a hundred million of our Pacific pesos. Can you even imagine how much money someone has to give away a hunderd million? Of course it's possible he may expect a quid pro quo?

That was earlier in the week. Trump is a conman who has surrounded himself with grifters, so the money may have vanished already like the rest of his war chest. Makes you wonder how Adelson was ever smart enough to accumulate so much cash.
He's the 8th richest man on the planet.
i would suggest his interests are in this case more to keeping cannabis illegal and the gaming the same. but who knows with this guy.
Best as I can make out He has an real interest in keeping dope illegal and making his gambling empire ever larger.
He doesn't care what it costs according to one source he recently paid 140 million for a paper to stop it printing stuff he objected to.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/05/09/477423367/more-journalists-leaving-las-vegas-review-journal-after-sale-to-billionaire

he spends big to prevent internet gambling but one can only assume that due to him owning real life casinos.:psst:

Others say he has real honest intentions.
He said he wants to regulate illegal activities like prostitution, drug abuse and gambling by minors. but at odds these things are also all driven by his business.......

pritch

24th October 2020, 09:52

Pretty much sums it up.

husaberg

24th October 2020, 11:12

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/89/64/ac/8964acd8c248e37f3e982cfeb73af09f.jpghttps://i.imgflip.com/3y2lci.jpg
https://www.liveabout.com/thmb/ORTIF4cyj_yuW1-el2vZqBqJtFY=/640x640/filters:no_upscale():max_bytes(150000):strip_icc()/trump-rigged-system-58059c3d3df78cbc28455c07.jpghttps://sadanduseless.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/funny-trump-quotes3.jpg

pritch

24th October 2020, 12:14

Indeed....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1mxJMIIMuE

"Indeed" indeed. Those fires were started by RWNJs posing as BLM supporters. That was always likely and had been reported previously, but this is difficult to ignore.
Or should be.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd

TheDemonLord

24th October 2020, 13:10

"Indeed" indeed. Those fires were started by RWNJs posing as BLM supporters. That was always likely and had been reported previously, but this is difficult to ignore.
Or should be.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd

Even assuming that is 100% the case - and it seems awfully convenient if you were a left-wing media outlet, wanting to excuse left-wing violence, the problem is a reporter standing in front of a burning building trying to convince us that it's a peaceful protest and not a riot.

pritch

24th October 2020, 13:25

Even assuming that is 100% the case - and it seems awfully convenient if you were a left-wing media outlet, wanting to excuse left-wing violence, the problem is a reporter standing in front of a burning building trying to convince us that it's a peaceful protest and not a riot.

If you look at the people moving around in the clip they do not look notably riotous.

pritch

25th October 2020, 10:23

Viking01

25th October 2020, 16:50

I have to admit I'm not really that interested, but given that I was asked the question "how is Don doing in the polls?", well, I had to go and do a look-up online.

I'm sure that there is plenty of variation, depending upon which US poll you choose, so I'll choose the BBC (on the basis that it is taking a neutral view):

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53657174

Well, Don, it's not looking great at the moment. But not everyone has voted early, and there's still a few days left.

That said, you might even have to consider dusting off some of the cunning plans that the TIP had identified.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-2020-election-could-go-wrong/614842/

F5 Dave

25th October 2020, 17:51

GazzaH

25th October 2020, 17:59

Oohh. I have some suggestions for who should man those missions. . .

A space cadet?

husaberg

25th October 2020, 18:00

https://foreignpolicy.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/trump_moon.jpg?w=800&h=383&quality=90
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/06/07/21/14516294-7117567-image-a-2_1559941156036.jpg
That's right Don the moon is part of Mars.....

https://twitter.com/i/status/1186115176908517376

actungbaby

25th October 2020, 18:11

"Trump is Putin's useful idiot."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2020/09/alexander-vindman-trump-putin-useful-idiot/616341/I had smile compared putin with trump .if putin geand chess master .then latter be average checker player .(draughts )

Sent from my CPH1941 using Tapatalk

Stylo

26th October 2020, 19:15

'I had smile compared putin with trump .if putin geand chess master .then latter be average checker player.(draughts)'

What ?

Houston. We have a problem.

TheDemonLord

26th October 2020, 21:28

If you look at the people moving around in the clip they do not look notably riotous.

And it just so happens that there is a strong correlation, one might even suppose a causation between revolutionary movements built on jealousy and envy and criminal acts.

On a side note, excepting if you happen to be a Fire-Fighter, how many burning buildings have you moved around in front of recently?
There is an implicit claim that all the violence is being done by 'RWNJ' as you put it - Consider this - you're at your peaceful protest, with no malice in your heart, and one of your fellow protestors says 'Hey, we should burn down a building'...

Do you tell them not to do it?
Do you report them?
Do you try and stop them?
Do you do nothing?
Do you impede others who might be trying to stop them?
Do you join in?

And isn't it awfully curious, the speed at which they are able to find the supposed 'RWNJ' and level charges, yet ANTIFA and Co are still running... Riot... (Pun well and truly intended)

Of course, we should wait to see how the Trial pans out, a more objective report indicates that he was assisting in lighting the fires, which supposes that he was assisting someone else, perhaps some Peaceful Protestors...

TheDemonLord

26th October 2020, 21:41

Trump has consistently been unable to answer questions about what he plans to do in his next term should he win. The inferrence being that he has no plans. Well, none that people would like.

The Republican Party decided to help him out. From the GOP account on Twitter here is the list of Trump's plans for the next four years. And no, it's not a joke.

"Pres. Trump is fighting for YOU! Here are some of his priorities for a 2nd term:

*Establish Permanent Manned Presence on The Moon
*Send the 1st Manned Mission to Mars
*Build World’s Greatest Infrastructure System
*Establish National High-Speed Wireless Internet Network"

What exactly are you taking exception with?

Manned Presence on the Moon? Sounds good to me, both from a scientific PoV, an achievement PoV and as a baby-step to what will likely be the next era in human expansion.
Manned Mission to Mars? See above
Better Infrastructure? A lot of US infrastructure is aging, so an update/refresh is in order, something that Kiwis could learn a thing or two about....
Better Internet? Outside of the major city hubs, the US has patchy internet - so again....

With the first two, I'm sure his detractors will trot out things like:
- Other issues to deal with
- Cost
- Vanity project etc.

To that I say:

First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the Earth.

(and then point to all the tangential benefits the come, not just in the derived technology space, but also as an inspiration for people to further themselves)

husaberg

26th October 2020, 23:12

nerrrd

27th October 2020, 06:35

President Trump might have seen this...

https://youtu.be/TF6GRPaeLbk

Viking01

27th October 2020, 07:30

(and then point to all the tangential benefits the come, not just in the derived technology space, but also as an inspiration for people to further themselves)

Morning,
Yes, I'm all for people furthering themselves. In Don's case, the further (away) the better. In fact, I have a shortlist of some of his fellow colleagues that he could take on his mission of exploration. And to be seen as being even-handed, I'm even willing to select from both sides of the US political divide.
Cheers,
Viking

pritch

27th October 2020, 08:32

And it just so happens that there is a strong correlation, one might even suppose a causation between revolutionary movements built on jealousy and envy and criminal acts.

On a side note, excepting if you happen to be a Fire-Fighter, how many burning buildings have you moved around in front of recently?
There is an implicit claim that all the violence is being done by 'RWNJ' as you put it - Consider this - you're at your peaceful protest, with no malice in your heart, and one of your fellow protestors says 'Hey, we should burn down a building'...

Do you tell them not to do it?
Do you report them?
Do you try and stop them?
Do you do nothing?
Do you impede others who might be trying to stop them?
Do you join in?

And isn't it awfully curious, the speed at which they are able to find the supposed 'RWNJ' and level charges, yet ANTIFA and Co are still running... Riot... (Pun well and truly intended)

Of course, we should wait to see how the Trial pans out, a more objective report indicates that he was assisting in lighting the fires, which supposes that he was assisting someone else, perhaps some Peaceful Protestors...

You were doing quite well until you mentioned Antifa, which exists mainly in the fevered imaginations of RWNJs. The shooter arrested has been charged by the local US Attorney's office. The feds have the reputation of not laying charges until they can be reasonably sure of conviction. More so than local prosecutors normally. With the election coming up next week though, news of his trial may get buried under whatever insanity follows that.

pritch

27th October 2020, 09:03

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QGat1WxC14

TheDemonLord

27th October 2020, 09:07

You were doing quite well until you mentioned Antifa, which exists mainly in the fevered imaginations of RWNJs.

I mentioned them because they are relevant. At what point does it stop being the Imaginations of RWNJs and be something real and tangible?

When they caused the creation of organisations like the Proud Boys?
When they beat people with BikeLocks?
When they attack the Jews?
When they riot?
When they take over a City Block?
When they kill people for supporting Trump?
When they attack people who are trying to stop them from burning shit down?

Come on Pritch - what is the standard of proof you'll accept?

The shooter arrested has been charged by the local US Attorney's office. The feds have the reputation of not laying charges until they can be reasonably sure of conviction. More so than local prosecutors normally. With the election coming up next week though, news of his trial may get buried under whatever insanity follows that.

We'll see.

I fall back to my 2 previous points, you can't start a fire in a group of people, unless they also want to start a fire and it's awfully curious how efficient the US justice system is when it comes to RWNJs....

R650R

27th October 2020, 11:41

You were doing quite well until you mentioned Antifa, which exists mainly in the fevered imaginations.

What rock have you been living under. George SoroÂ’s funded agent provocateur group Antifa has been at the core of hundreds of fight/protest videos on YouTube for last several years at least.
Even people at my martial arts class who arenÂ’t interested in politics know about Antifa as they are great for seeing bad technique and usually get their arse whipped.
Trump wouldnÂ’t threaten to declare them a terror group if they were imaginary.
Normal people donÂ’t riot and burn stuff, look at the videos and youÂ’ll always see Antifa goons at the front kicking stuff off.
I just hope NZ police are tracking their NZ members as eventually the Elite will also seek to destabilise our democracy and replace it with the Â“new normalÂ”.

pritch

27th October 2020, 12:23

What rock have you been living under. George SoroÂ’s funded agent provocateur group Antifa has been at the core of hundreds of fight/protest videos on YouTube for last several years at least.
Even people at my martial arts class who arenÂ’t interested in politics know about Antifa as they are great for seeing bad technique and usually get their arse whipped.
Trump wouldnÂ’t threaten to declare them a terror group if they were imaginary.
Normal people donÂ’t riot and burn stuff, look at the videos and youÂ’ll always see Antifa goons at the front kicking stuff off.
I just hope NZ police are tracking their NZ members as eventually the Elite will also seek to destabilise our democracy and replace it with the Â“new normalÂ”.

I stopped reading at "Soros". Well I'm assuming it was meant to be Soros. When I see that I know there's no hope.

Update: When I see Soros invoked in a post on other social media, I block the sender. As I say there is no hope, the references are invariably completely ridiculous. So To be consistent I'll do that here too.

pritch

27th October 2020, 12:50

R650R

27th October 2020, 14:12

I stopped reading at "Soros". Well I'm assuming it was meant to be Soros. When I see that I know there's no hope.

Update: When I see Soros invoked in a post on other social media, I block the sender. As I say there is no hope, the references are invariably completely ridiculous. So To be consistent I'll do that here too.

That’s awesome, I feel like I just won four and bonus on lotto

https://youtu.be/NcDZqMgjYM0

R650R

27th October 2020, 14:21

GOtta love trumps Air Force one Boeing price story...

I wonder if any of the anti crowd have ever watched his speeches properly?
Or the just the cherry picked out of context sound bites the lefty media peddle.

Btw I’m not pro trump, (not pro any political party or politician there all crooks) I just find it entertaining to listen to him. His massive success is due to his business ability to understand the client relationship. He speaks straight up at an Everyman level and with no TelePrompTer which explains his gaffes that only make him look more human.

https://youtu.be/TifVArF383U

Viking01

27th October 2020, 14:27

https://jackrasmus.com/2020/10/26/barrett-confirmed-by-us-senate-post-election-chaos-now-inevitable/

pritch

27th October 2020, 15:08

https://jackrasmus.com/2020/10/26/barrett-confirmed-by-us-senate-post-election-chaos-now-inevitable/

Thanks. A good read, pessimistic but not unduly so. Trump has already announced that he wants a result on the night of the 3rd. Twitter were aware of the possibility, they announced weeks ago that they would not permit him to tweet claiming victory prematurely.

There is no way the Republicans can win a fair election, but they are not concerned about the election being fair, just about winning.

TheDemonLord

27th October 2020, 15:18

Some of y'all might be puzzled by mentions of Antifa on here. Antifa is usually nothing like what's descibed on KB. The following item is a more realistic description. I particularly like the part where an 'Antifa' group described as a violent left wing group by law enforcement turned out to be RWNJs.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/antifa-group-trump-designate-terrorist-organization/story?id=71045287

The funniest part about that, is that it puts the origins of ANTIFA back in the 1970s:

Antifa movements in the U.S. can be traced back as early as the 1970s

So Pritch, according to your own source, that you are touting to be correct - which came first, ANTIFA or the Proud Boys :lol::lol:

But for an actual description of what ANTIFA is:

They are an explicitly Marxist organization with the expressed goal of tearing down the 'Western Capitalist Patriarchal structure' - which means they want Revolution. They adhere to the same intersectional strain of Social Justice thought (again a deeply Marxist concept) that is adopted by the likes of BLM (which is why they often work hand-in-hand).

They have multiple chapters and although they may not have a rigid centralized command structure, one only has to look at their actions (such as a Van pulling up moments after a verdict is read out, with multiple ANTIFA members and pre-made protest signs) to know that there is a degree of co-ordination.

sugilite

29th October 2020, 13:39

She seemed to of struck a nerve, gee I wonder why :corn:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfCb_TH0Vxg

pritch

29th October 2020, 18:18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6swwkH8o71M

Love that second aplication of hand sanitiser... :yes:

sugilite

30th October 2020, 05:02

The dog ate my homework, honest sir :laugh:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-hunter-biden-documents-vanish-los-angeles

pritch

30th October 2020, 20:42

They don't muck about in debates. Senator Perdue, Georgia, (L) is debating Jon Ossoff his Democrat challenger(R). Perdue does not seem to be having a good time. So much so that he has cancelled the final debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piU7QMMHCcQ

Viking01

31st October 2020, 11:48

https://punchng.com/on-joe-bidens-2tn-climate-plan/

pritch

31st October 2020, 14:55

Trump has now claimed at his mass spreader events that in addition to there being too much testing, another reason the COVID count is so high is that medical staff are paid more if they classify the cause of death as being the virus.

Outrage ensued. He did have supporters among hospital staff, although there may be fewer now.

He is talking so much crap currently, the CNN fact checker has said it's impossible to keep up.

husaberg

31st October 2020, 15:53

Trumps a real Turkey
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/painful-simplicity-trump-s-new-turkey-scandal-n1245455

pritch

31st October 2020, 16:55

I love this. Trump's credit ain't worth shit. So much for the genius billionaire.

R650R

31st October 2020, 18:40

The dog ate my homework, honest sir :laugh:

https://www.foxnews.com/media/tucker-carlson-hunter-biden-documents-vanish-los-angeles

That’s only his copies, the Chinese have multiple backups and it’s being distributed through other channels.
The deathly quiet from the corrupt fake news left owned media on this only proves trumps claims about the swamp.
Can you imagine if this dirt was about trump instead of Biden it would be 24/7 rolling breaking news...

Murray

31st October 2020, 18:48

Trumps a real Turkey
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/painful-simplicity-trump-s-new-turkey-scandal-n1245455

Don't you mean George?

sugilite

31st October 2020, 23:40

That’s only his copies, the Chinese have multiple backups and it’s being distributed through other channels.
The deathly quiet from the corrupt fake news left owned media on this only proves trumps claims about the swamp.
Can you imagine if this dirt was about trump instead of Biden it would be 24/7 rolling breaking news...

You have top be kidding mate, They did not email them, copy them, even bloody fax them - it is because they simply do not exist. If course it is deathly quiet on the other news channels because why would they give it any weight - zero proof, just like all the so called Obama gate investigations.

If it was about Trump, the news cycle would only last 48 hours max, until the next Trump bullshit blockbuster would be unleashed. The American people must be sooooo tired of it.

Kickaha

1st November 2020, 05:54

The American people must be sooooo tired of it.

Yeah but the thing is they aren't, Trumps sychophants lap it all up and beg for more

R650R

1st November 2020, 07:33

https://youtu.be/UWg7qwKBhMM

pritch

1st November 2020, 08:41

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BpV8JklgY4

husaberg

1st November 2020, 12:31

R650R

1st November 2020, 17:40

https://youtu.be/DU-hSx_WACo

R650R

1st November 2020, 17:42

https://youtu.be/qnhl0eCZ_E8

R650R

1st November 2020, 17:45

Even I lolled at this one.... that planes four days old LMAO

USA USA USA
https://youtu.be/LcYrhWpszlo

husaberg

1st November 2020, 17:45

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/1818344704/h680241A0/obvious-troll-obvious

pritch

1st November 2020, 17:58

The word is that last nght 'trick or treaters' were being given Hunter Biden laptops. There are now so many nobody can keep count. :whistle:

Kickaha

1st November 2020, 20:08

Pres sec, fact checks reporters bashing Trump

Kaleigh is a lying little bitch, it's what she's paid to do, she's very articulate, well prepared and good at what she does but she's a fucking liar, Propaganda Barbie

R650R

2nd November 2020, 16:13

https://youtu.be/-978MiDt_Ww

pritch

3rd November 2020, 09:48

Not many more of these ads to go now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP-aGvbDpfc

TheDemonLord

3rd November 2020, 09:57

Thomas Sowell

Thomas Sowell is, IMO Criminally underappreciated.

Especially if you look at some of his interviews in the 1970s and 80s - he was aware of what was happening, even back then.

Viking01

3rd November 2020, 11:10

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3108161/us-election-judge-rejects-republican-bid-throw-out

TheDemonLord

3rd November 2020, 11:53

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3108161/us-election-judge-rejects-republican-bid-throw-out

I'm afraid I can't agree - from the article.

The challenges have not involved Trump’s campaign

The lawsuit drew objections even from Republicans, include former Texas House Speaker Joe Straus.

If Joe Bloggs wants to mount a legal challenge, from the left or right on any issue, they are free to do so. The headline is deliberately misleading, and clarification that it is not an official action taken by the Republican party only comes much later in the article.

Laava

3rd November 2020, 12:28

I am hoping that Trumps win at all costs mentality is going to leave him with a massive bill and no presidency.
I hope they televise his congratulatory phone call to Biden in the event...

Viking01

3rd November 2020, 13:35

I'm afraid I can't agree - from the article.

If Joe Bloggs wants to mount a legal challenge, from the left or right on any issue, they are free to do so. The headline is deliberately misleading, and clarification that it is not an official action taken by the Republican party only comes much later in the article.

Just as well you pointed it out, as Al Jazeera is doing likewise.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/2/texas-federal-judge-denies-republican-effort-to-toss-127k-votes

pritch

3rd November 2020, 13:37

The headline is deliberately misleading, and clarification that it is not an official action taken by the Republican party only comes much later in the article.

The headline is not misleading, it's exactly right. Are you suggesting Democrats took the case to court?

The Republicans always try to stop people voting, this time Trump has been agitating for votes not to be counted. Including all of tho votes from his "suckers and losers" serving overseas.

The US system has proved to be nowhere near as robust as was thought. "It couldn't happen here," proved a major misconception. Here's hoping the result is such a massive landslide that Drumpf just can't declare himself the winner at midnight. Similarly, I hope Biden doen't hold his breath waiting for the concession call.

TheDemonLord

3rd November 2020, 14:13

The headline is not misleading, it's exactly right. Are you suggesting Democrats took the case to court?

Neither the Republican organization, nor the Democrat Organization did anything of the sort.

The headline should differentiate that it was an individual who was a republican who raised the legal challenge and not anything to do with the official party or Trump. They clarified it much later on in the article, but as I said, it's deliberately misleading.

The Republicans always try to stop people voting, this time Trump has been agitating for votes not to be counted. Including all of tho votes from his "suckers and losers" serving overseas.

No, if you read properly what the contention with mail-in ballots is, it's for ballots that are mailed after the election day.

As for the 'Suckers and Losers' comment, everyone who was present when it was alleged to have been said has disputed it was said. Repeating lies does not become you Pritch.

The US system has proved to be nowhere near as robust as was thought. "It couldn't happen here," proved a major misconception. Here's hoping the result is such a massive landslide that Drumpf just can't declare himself the winner at midnight. Similarly, I hope Biden doen't hold his breath waiting for the concession call.

This is again, not true.

Because it is not the US system, each State has autonomy to issue it's own methods of electing a State representative to the Federal government.

Some states have very robust Mail-In Ballot rules, whereby a Mail-in Ballot has to be requested and the identity checked at the point of requesting the ballot (AKA Florida), those states also have a means of post-marking the Ballot to ensure it was Mailed BEFORE the election closes (even IF it is counted AFTER).

Other states that do not have a history of doing mass mail-in voting do not have such robust rules, which was the whole point of contention.

You bang on and on and on about how much Trump lies, yet in a few short sentences, you are no better than that which you accuse him of.

pritch

3rd November 2020, 15:54

Neither the Republican organization, nor the Democrat Organization did anything of the sort.

The headline should differentiate that it was an individual who was a republican who raised the legal challenge and not anything to do with the official party or Trump. They clarified it much later on in the article, but as I said, it's deliberately misleading.

Bollocks! The word organisation was not in the headline. Anybody with developed comprehension skills understood what was meant. Again, for the hard of thinking, the headline was correct.

As for the 'Suckers and Losers' comment, everyone who was present when it was alleged to have been said has disputed it was said.

Fiction again. The quote allegedly came from some who were present. Ivanka or Malania might say he didn't make the remark. Surprise!

Because it is not the US system, each State has autonomy to issue it's own methods of electing a State representative to the Federal government.

Finally you got something right. The Constitution gives the states the right to organise their own elections. Systems vary widely. Some have been counting early votes as early voting progressed, others will not start counting the early votes until after election day votes have been counted. Trump (and you if I recall) distrust votes counted after Election Day he wants counting to stop at midnight Tuesday their time. That never happens in the US, and neither does it happen here. All of Trump's ranting is despite the fact that voter fraud in the US is considered to be virtually non-existent.

On election night it's usual for the Republicans to take an early lead, rural districts are smaller and get their counts in quicker. The big urban, mainly Democrat, districts come in later. The concern is that if Trump is ahead at midnight he'll declare himself the winner by tweet. Twitter have said they won't permit that, but...

The best outcome will be for an absolute landslide against Trump from the get go so that he can't make a case that he won at any stage.

Then there's the Electoral College. The US voters do not get a direct vote as to who will be president. The electors of the Electoral college do that in December. Trump has asked Republican Governors to give him their Ellectoral College votes regardless of how their people vote. Some states have laws covering this, others do not..

Interestingly he's apparently building another wall around the White House.

Not long now. I got some of this in...

Viking01

3rd November 2020, 17:25

[Sound on]

https://twitter.com/kilmeade/status/1322952354593984517

husaberg

3rd November 2020, 17:45

Fiction again. The quote allegedly came from some who were present. Ivanka or Malania might say he didn't make the remark. Surprise!
..

4 separate sources have confirmed the story.
as did many different news agencies
The Associated Press, New York Times, Fox News and Washington Post quickly confirmed Goldberg’s reporting.

The Post added several related details, in addition to Trump describing fallen soldiers as “losers.” “In one account, the president told senior advisers that he didn’t understand why the U.S. government placed such value on finding soldiers missing in action because they had performed poorly and gotten caught and deserved what they got, according to a person familiar with the discussion.”

What’s more, other sources have claimed that Trump dismisses the value of military service. Michael Cohen testified in 2018 that Trump admitted faking bone spurs to avoid serving in Vietnam and told him, “You think I’m stupid? I wasn’t going to Vietnam.”

pritch

3rd November 2020, 17:46

The results for Dixville Notch are in. Biden took it.

If that seems odd Dixville Notch has a population not much out of single figures. The polls open at midnight and everybody votes promptly.

F5 Dave

3rd November 2020, 19:07

Bollocks! The word organisation was not in the headline. Anybody with developed comprehension skills understood what was meant. Again, for the hard of thinking, the headline was correct.

Fiction again. The quote allegedly came from some who were present. Ivanka or Malania might say he didn't make the remark. Surprise!

Finally you got something right. The Constitution gives the states the right to organise their own elections. Systems vary widely. Some have been counting early votes as early voting progressed, others will not start counting the early votes until after election day votes have been counted. Trump (and you if I recall) distrust votes counted after Election Day he wants counting to stop at midnight Tuesday their time. That never happens in the US, and neither does it happen here. All of Trump's ranting is despite the fact that voter fraud in the US is considered to be virtually non-existent.

On election night it's usual for the Republicans to take an early lead, rural districts are smaller and get their counts in quicker. The big urban, mainly Democrat, districts come in later. The concern is that if Trump is ahead at midnight he'll declare himself the winner by tweet. Twitter have said they won't permit that, but...

The best outcome will be for an absolute landslide against Trump from the get go so that he can't make a case that he won at any stage.

Then there's the Electoral College. The US voters do not get a direct vote as to who will be president. The electors of the Electoral college do that in December. Trump has asked Republican Governors to give him their Ellectoral College votes regardless of how their people vote. Some states have laws covering this, others do not..

Interestingly he's apparently building another wall around the White House.

Not long now. I got some of this in...

Ha! I've just finished my can from the holy chalice to invoke the spirit of the American people to vote for whoever the other guy is.

F5 Dave

3rd November 2020, 19:11

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to pritch again.

Today, 18:25#932

Make Russia great again.

Actually a very nice drop.

Dean

3rd November 2020, 21:31

Need to try that Bohemeth “make Russia great again”.

I bet that’s a good crafty drop.

TheDemonLord

4th November 2020, 08:06

Bollocks! The word organisation was not in the headline. Anybody with developed comprehension skills understood what was meant. Again, for the hard of thinking, the headline was correct.

If someone refers to 'Republicans', conventional understanding is that they are referring to the official republican party.

The fact the the article doesn't clarify this until near the end is wholly deceptive.

Fiction again. The quote allegedly came from some who were present. Ivanka or Malania might say he didn't make the remark. Surprise!

Allegedly

Oof...

So nothing confirmed or verified, and considering this has been refuted by everyone present....

RDJ

4th November 2020, 08:10

I didn't vote for physics or gravity, but they enforce their laws upon me nonetheless.

pritch

4th November 2020, 09:42

Interesting. There were huge numbers of ballots parked in post offices in marginal districts going nowhere. A federal judge has ordered that post offices be cleared of all ballots and the ballots be delivered to electoral offices by 3PM.

Update:
The USPS did not comply with the court order and have been ordered to appear in court Wednesday US time.

R650R

4th November 2020, 12:18

Interesting. There were huge numbers of ballots parked in post offices in marginal districts going nowhere. A federal judge has ordered that post offices be cleared of all ballots and the ballots be delivered to electoral offices by 3PM.

That’s what TRUMP was warning people about, potential for fraud and loss via a dysfunctional USPS. (Their international dept is great with bike parts to NZ but they have poor rep in domestic USA)

Then there’s this https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.nationalreview.com/2020/09/new-project-veritas-video-voter-fraud-in-ilhan-omars-district/amp/

Interestingly USA allows exit polls which is great, pity it is illegal in NZ.

Laava

4th November 2020, 15:42

I didn't vote for physics or gravity, but they enforce their laws upon me nonetheless.
Is there a bit too much drooping going on?

FJRider

4th November 2020, 15:44

The fact the the article doesn't clarify this until near the end is wholly deceptive.

The old adage is ... to understand the full story ... you read the FULL story.

Headlines are just to get your attention. They seldom contain the full (if any) facts.

RDJ

4th November 2020, 16:48

Is there a bit too much drooping going on?

That's unfortunate for you Laava. If you are looking for fellow-sufferers, there is undoubtedly a support group for you somewhere. Good luck with your search. (Or not, I don't really care) :-)

Kickaha

4th November 2020, 17:02

That’s what TRUMP was warning people about, potential for fraud and loss via a dysfunctional USPS. (Their international dept is great with bike parts to NZ but they have poor rep in domestic USA)

Trump was making crap up and then tried to shaft the USPS to actually make it happen

Laava

4th November 2020, 17:35

That's unfortunate for you Laava. If you are looking for fellow-sufferers, there is undoubtedly a support group for you somewhere. Good luck with your search. (Or not, I don't really care) :-)
Oh dear, didn't realise humour wasn't your bag old chap.

RDJ

4th November 2020, 18:20

Oh dear, didn't realise humour wasn't your bag old chap.

Ok, stoner...

Laava

4th November 2020, 18:29

Oh dear, didn't realise humour wasn't your bag old chap.
Fuck me, that was a bit close to the bone then!...

RDJ

4th November 2020, 19:13

Fuck me, that was a bit close to the bone then!...

Well, since you're so obviously focused on boners, you should just do you.

Laava

5th November 2020, 17:53

Trump was making crap up and then tried to shaft the USPS to actually make it happen
yep, funny how quickly people forget...
hopefully, the general public worldwide will soon forget about what an absolute trainwreck this presidency has been.

Grumph

6th November 2020, 05:35

Even if Trump is defeated - and at the time of writing this it's by no means certain - don't think he's going to go away quietly.
Some pundits are picking he'll continue campaigning. The rallies are oxygen to him - and his supporters. They won't just disappear either.

There's a good possibility he'll set up a "president in opposition" movement. The sycophantic Republicans could well stick to him and support it too.

There's always been a dark side to the American psyche - racism is still rampant - and he both feeds this side and feeds off it.

There's only two avenues to stop him. Gaol or a bullet. He's likely to run to avoid prison so a "President in exile" could happen too.

It's a long way from over.

pzkpfw

6th November 2020, 07:00

The Trump/Republican position seems to be:

Democrats are trying to steal the election!

Pennsylvania needs to stop counting.
Arizona needs to keep counting.
Wisconsin needs to start recounting.

(copied)

husaberg

6th November 2020, 11:27

Banditbandit

6th November 2020, 13:55

It seems No matter what he did the no matter what he was convicted of, the next Republican administration would just grant him a pardon anyway.

That could be eight years away - long enough for him to serve his time ..

pritch

6th November 2020, 16:06

The Irish Daily Mirror:

R650R

7th November 2020, 09:51

The Irish Daily Mirror:

Page 3 titty tabloid rag ��

Oh yeah that's the benchmark of reputable journalism right there

Btw can you turn the page please lol

pritch

7th November 2020, 13:18

Page 3 titty tabloid rag ��

Oh yeah that's the benchmark of reputable journalism right there

Btw can you turn the page please lol

I guess if there's nothing intelligent you can say about the message, you can always attack the Messenger. :whistle:

PrincessBandit

7th November 2020, 13:37

pritch

7th November 2020, 13:58

Probably already been said (haven’t been following threads here for a while) but how many Trumpers are packing themselves over the prospect of either an acting or actual woman - and a woman of colour no less - Commander in Chief if Joe Biden is incapacitated after being installed as POTUS. :woohoo:

The VP is always only one heart beat away from being president. Joe will be 82 at the end of his term I think. There would seem to be a better than average chance the USA could have its first female president.

pritch

7th November 2020, 13:59

Thought this was great.

F5 Dave

7th November 2020, 15:16

The VP is always only one heart beat away from being president. Joe will be 80 at the end of his term I think. There would seem to be a better than average chance the USA could have its first female president.
That would be funny, and obviously good for perhaps stabilising world relations he (the orange clown) has done do shiningly to demolish.

pritch

7th November 2020, 15:28

That would be funny, and obviously good for perhaps stabilising world relations he (the orange clown) has done do shiningly to demolish.

I need to update my post, Biden is 78 he will be 82 at the end of his term - unless he has a birthday before Jan 20.

The previous oldest president was Donald J Trump.

TheDemonLord

8th November 2020, 05:29

And now the lawsuits begin

Dean

8th November 2020, 07:14

Finally got rid of the orange clown.

pritch

8th November 2020, 08:08

And now the lawsuits begin

He'll try, and the lawyers will oblige, 'cause lawyers... The lawyers may not even be able to make a case. The cases they have attempted so far have only managed to irritate judges.

The claims that there were no observers were lies, that was thrown out other than the judge said the observers could stand a bit closer to the action.

There was a claim that there were 53 late ballots counted. The judge asked the election officials if that was true, they said no. The judge asked Trump's lawyers if they had proof, they said no.
And that was that.

So the idiot in chief is meeting his lawyers Monday their time. The lawyers shouldn't count on getting paid. The big name lawyers are all aware of that, and they will continue to avoid Trump like the plague. So Trump's legal team will continue to be comprised of conmen, griters, and chancers.

He may be able to get a recount in Georgia if it fiished close enough. Any other recounts will cost him a couple of million each.

I'm wondering if he's even aware Biden has been declared the winner. Trump's on the golf course and his staff are all shit scared of giving him bad news.

PrincessBandit

8th November 2020, 08:31

Triumph for the voice of democracy in USA.

slofox

8th November 2020, 08:34

IIRC, the recount in Georgia will happen automatically if the vote is close enough. Standard operating procedure I believe.

Oakie

8th November 2020, 08:34

Triumph for the voice of democracy in USA.

OMG. When I first scanned that I thought it said 'Trump for the voice of democracy in USA'. Whew!

Oakie

8th November 2020, 08:38

The VP is always only one heart beat away from being president. Joe will be 82 at the end of his term I think. There would seem to be a better than average chance the USA could have its first female president.

Even better than that, A female Asian President. The rednecks will have conniptions!

Laava

8th November 2020, 08:42

I wonder where she was born?

Too soon?

pete376403

8th November 2020, 09:13

I wonder where she was born?

Too soon?

"Born in Oakland, California, Harris graduated from Howard University and the University of California, Hastings College of the Law. She began her career in the Alameda County District Attorney's Office, before being recruited to the San Francisco District Attorney's Office and later the City Attorney of San Francisco's office. In 2003, she was elected district attorney of San Francisco. She was elected Attorney General of California in 2010 and re-elected in 2014."

I am sure repubs believe California is another country, so yeah, you could have a point

R650R

8th November 2020, 10:20

Probably already been said (haven’t been following threads here for a while) but how many Trumpers are packing themselves over the prospect of either an acting or actual woman - and a woman of colour no less - Commander in Chief if Joe Biden is incapacitated after being installed as POTUS. :woohoo:

What's the "IF" part? It's clear to all that he's in some form of cognitive decline.
At times he's nearly normal when on his best medications and has a TelePrompTer but even then the cracks show.
Kamala would be no better for blacks than Obama, he was happy for blacks to die in USA pointless wars where as trump brought the troops home.
She's Jamaican/Indian btw....

husaberg

8th November 2020, 10:26

I wonder where she was born?

Too soon?

he will be telling out all the excuses now and all the rest......
His best ones were when he calls others fat or stupid when he is clearly obese and lacking in intelligence himself.
They have such a long handover period, imagine the havoc he will cause.

nerrrd

8th November 2020, 10:36

He’s going to get a rude shock when he realises that the Secret Service, Marines etc work for the President, not him.

And that the Supreme Court judges, now they’re on the court, owe him nothing.

R650R

8th November 2020, 10:39

HenryDorsetCase

8th November 2020, 10:42

What's the "IF" part? It's clear to all that he's in some form of cognitive decline.
At times he's nearly normal when on his best medications and has a TelePrompTer but even then the cracks show.
Kamala would be no better for blacks than Obama, he was happy for blacks to die in USA pointless wars where as trump brought the troops home.
She's Jamaican/Indian btw....

Fuck off. That is the worst sort of sore loser bullshit. Go have a cry-wank watching fox news while your God-Emperor's shitshow unravels. It's not like we have any skin in the game cos we're a long way from the US but any rational person can see that cunt was the worst possible choice as leader of the second most powerful nation on the planet. Even if Biden/Harris are bad, and hamstrung by theocrats and lunatics, they'll be better than that fucking loser.

And that's what I think.

slofox

8th November 2020, 10:43

Laava

8th November 2020, 10:47

All ex presidents get a secret service detail for life after office. They can opt out of it though...
They also get a memorial library built and named after them which holds every statement/word written by the president. Some intern gonna be busy typing up that twitter feed lol
Yeah, looks like he is more likely going to get a public toilet cubicle then. At a train station.

PrincessBandit

8th November 2020, 10:49

R650R

8th November 2020, 10:52

Fuck off. That is the worst sort of sore loser bullshit. Go have a cry-wank watching fox news while your God-Emperor's shitshow unravels. It's not like we have any skin in the game cos we're a long way from the US but any rational person can see that cunt was the worst possible choice as leader of the second most powerful nation on the planet. Even if Biden/Harris are bad, and hamstrung by theocrats and lunatics, they'll be better than that fucking loser.

And that's what I think.

I have nothing at stake in this game, I just find the whole sideshow wildly entertaining.
I love the entertainment of Trumps hyperbolic speeches but just like any NZ politician I don't support them, they are all liars in the end serving a greater elite master....

R650R

8th November 2020, 11:01

Woman of colour is the phrase I used. Does that only apply to black Americans?:facepalm: Go for a ride. It might bring you some relief.

Well if you ask the PC crowd they'll tell you that identity politics don't work without assigning people their place in the alphabet. At www.selfidentify/gender/race/intersectional/ethic/fair trade.net it says women of colour typically refers to black American women with prefixes added to that where other flavours are blended in.
I also refer you to subsection 21.c on sweeping generalisations in Internet forums where things can mean whatever you want them to mean. The statement itself gets to self identify what it means, the reader has no right to disputed the identity of words, words have feelings too.

caseye

8th November 2020, 11:05

Woman of colour is the phrase I used. Does that only apply to black Americans?:facepalm: Go for a ride. It might bring you some relief.

You tell em Princess!
Great seeing you in ere!:woohoo:

Laava

8th November 2020, 11:11

Hope he doesn't land in our country!

pritch

8th November 2020, 11:31

IIRC, the recount in Georgia will happen automatically if the vote is close enough. Standard operating procedure I believe.

Yes, and both senate races have to be rerun. Georgia has a rule that the winner has to have 50% of the vote minimum, neither did. One was won by a Dem, one by a Republican. If the Dems can win both the senate will be tied, 50 seats each, and Kamala Harris as VP will have the casting vote. So a lot hangs on this, and it happens in January.

Woman of colour is the phrase I used. Does that only apply to black Americans?:facepalm: Go for a ride. It might bring you some relief.

There were suggestions from Trump supporters that she was not "black". Apparently they were trying to limit the support she received from the black community. This is ongoing, I've seen one such post on Twitter this morning. Her father was Jamaican. The difference between an African American and a Jamaican was just a few degrees on the compass of a slave ship a couple of hundred years ago.

Fresh from "starring" in Borat's latest movie, Trump's free lawyer Rudy is not impressed that all of the media are naming Biden as the winner. He says the courts pick the winner. That's odd, I thought it was the electorate picked the winner.

Lots of entertainment to come I'm sure. Provided Trump doesn't totally lose the plot and do something seriously insane between now and January 20th.

1/32 man

8th November 2020, 11:48

You declare yourself the winner and then demand a recount?

F5 Dave

8th November 2020, 12:17

Viking01

8th November 2020, 12:52

Now that the Don's days seem to be over (ignoring all the bluster that has still yet to come), suspect that US politics is going to seem "tame" (and quiet). No more watching the Twitter feed.

While there may have been a "change of the guard", is "that which is being guarded" going to change?

Are we going to see some material changes in what the US does in the future, and how it does it ? In which areas are we likely to see some positive change ?

I realise that the Democrats will likely end up not controlling the Senate, which will tie their hands to some extent.

I had scribbled myself a few points to watch for in the future. Not in any particular order or priority e.g.

Global
Re-join global Climate Change Initiative ?
Re-join global Nuclear and Other Weapon Treaties ?
Withdraw troops from open conflict areas overseas (e.g. Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria)? Reduce the number of US military bases and outposts globally (800+) ?

External Relations
Repair of political relations with specific countries (e.g. China; Russia; Iran; North Korea; various South American countries)?
Repair of trading relationships (e.g. China, Europe), or increase in sanctions ? US re-engagement with the WTO?
Push a reduction in level of globalisation, with a corresponding increase in the return of manufacturing (real economy) activity to / within the US ? Increase in jobs ?
Reduced US push for extension of NATO, both in Europe and elsewhere around the world ?

Internal
Covid ? Change to own internal approach ? Greater commitment of resources ?
Reduction in US military spend (MIC) , with a corresponding increase in spending on employment (jobs), education and health ?
Reduction in federal support for US oil and gas industry ? Reduction in fracking ?
Promotion and initiation of true Green Energy projects (not just a Green Deal) ?
Rebuilding of US infrastructure (bridges, roads etc) ?

More affordable healthcare and housing ? Education ?
Racial equality ? Changes in Policing , and reduction in Police shootings ?
Reduction in incarceration levels in jails (gaols) ?
Immigration and the Wall ?

More progressive changes in taxation rates (vs more tax breaks for the 1%) ?
Changes to the US physical electoral system (to make it more robust, and less open to challenge) ?
Changes to electoral funding (restrictions on funding levels by donors) ?

Bound to be a few others deserving mention, but that will do as a starter.

So - what is going to change ?

F5 Dave

8th November 2020, 13:01

Sounds a bit too considered.

I'm just vexed trying to work out what condiment goes best with babies. :blink:

Viking01

8th November 2020, 13:15

Sounds a bit too considered.

I'm just vexed trying to work out what condiment goes best with babies. :blink:

Interesting .

Perhaps you could get some tips from the Hannibal Lecter cookbook ?

https://www.amazon.com/Feeding-Hannibal-Connoisseurs-Janice-Poon/dp/1783297662

I'd offer to lend you my copy, but I'm busy using it. We have guests coming for dinner tonight. Sorry, that should be "to dinner".

PrincessBandit

8th November 2020, 15:09

I have nothing at stake in this game, I just find the whole sideshow wildly entertaining.
I love the entertainment of Trumps hyperbolic speeches but just like any NZ politician I don't support them, they are all liars in the end serving a greater elite master....

If it hadn’t been for the excruciating wretchedness he wrecked on large swathes of the American people....
Trump was arguably the least qualified person (and remained that way for 4 years, unbelievably) in the history of the US presidency. If you discount the utter misery he inflicted, I guess he was a hoot. His circus antics were genuinely jaw-droppingly laughable at the very real expense of the citizens.

FJRider

8th November 2020, 15:09

You declare yourself the winner and then demand a recount?

It's the American way ... <_<

Laava

8th November 2020, 15:55

Bidens speech was actually quite down to earth. What a contrast to the outgoing orange fuckwit.

pritch

8th November 2020, 17:19

Bidens speech was actually quite down to earth. What a contrast to the outgoing orange fuckwit.

Dare i say it? He looked "presidential."

Certain journalistic hacks regularly referred to Trump "pivoting to presidential." Trump was absolutely incapable of anything remotely approaching presidential, and eventually even the most blinkered got the message and we've not had that nonsense in months.

Dontcha just love the fact that his lawyers stuffed up the address for their speech today. Meaning to book into a hotel, they mistakenly booked into a garden centre of the same name, situated between a porno movie shop and a crematorium. Symbolic of the whole shambolic shitshow that was the Tump presidency.

pete376403

8th November 2020, 17:25

Dontcha just love the fact that his lawyers stuffed up the address for their speech today. Meaning to book into a hotel, they mistakenly booked into a garden centre of the same name, situated between a porno movie shop and a crematorium. Symbolic of the whole shambolic shitshow that was the Tump presidency.

Please tell me this is true. Is there a reference or link?

testastretta

8th November 2020, 17:55

Please tell me this is true. Is there a reference or link?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/four-seasons-total-landscaping-trump-team-news-conference.html

husaberg

8th November 2020, 18:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DREO6cwbGeQ

R650R

8th November 2020, 19:20

https://youtu.be/IP5i9ykXRR8

pritch

8th November 2020, 19:29

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/11/four-seasons-total-landscaping-trump-team-news-conference.html

I love that Rudy (star of the recent Borat movie) thinks that elections are decided in the courts. Bollocks! The voters and the various states decide the elections. There should be no place for lawyers or courts. But $$$$$.

MAGAts can feel free to explain this scene from Borat, as long as they don't try and tell us he's adjusting his shirt. :whistle:

husaberg

8th November 2020, 19:30

The poet Carl Sandburg is credited with saying:
If the facts are against you, argue the law.
If the law is against you, argue the facts.
If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/hey-trump-youre-21418961ae.jpg

pritch

8th November 2020, 19:42

https://youtu.be/IP5i9ykXRR8

Fuck me! Three ballots! That'll change everything.

Please spare us this idiocy.

This has happened in NZ, it's rare, but it does happen. Postal inspectors keep an eye on such things, but Trump's man at the USPS stood the inspectors down. Thus mail can be dumped instead of going to the intended address. More time at home...