The firearm thread

[jono035]

then hook a laptop and gps unit up so its controlled via satellite!

video-call the thing from a cellphone!

[sAsLEX]

then hook a laptop and gps unit up so its controlled via satellite!


video-call the thing from a cellphone!

That means it can be jammed and is trackable.......


Lets give it a wee bit of artificial intelligence and let it run completely stand alone.

[jono035]

That means it can be jammed and is trackable.......


Lets give it a wee bit of artificial intelligence and let it run completely stand alone.

I take it that was you volunteering to test it at your place then...

[sAsLEX]

I take it that was you volunteering to test it at your place then...

Middle of suburban Auckland..... what could go wrong!?

[jono035]

Middle of suburban Auckland..... what could go wrong!?

Well there is nothing wrong with Auckland that a good 8.5 earthquake, raging fire, flood and swarm of locusts wouldn't fix...

[Indiana_Jones]

Damn it, too many toys and not enough cash.

Got a few ideas of what I want next..........

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

mmmmmmmmmm

7.62x54R tempts me again lol


<img src="http://www.rusmilitary.com/images/svd.jpg">

-Indy

[jono035]

7.62x54R tempts me again

Well you're set up to reload it now, so you might as well *shrug*

[Indiana_Jones]

Well you're set up to reload it now, so you might as well *shrug*

You'd make a terrible accountant lol :bleh:

-Indy

[jono035]

You'd make a terrible accountant lol :bleh:

-Indy

so true, so very true... :D

[jono035]

Well, a tennis ball is 67mm in diameter and a beer can is 65-66mm, so pretty much dead on 2.6".

A 12-pounder Napoleon Cannon Model 1857 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_obusier_de_12) has a bore diameter of 4.6" so we're at roughly 1/2 scale which would be a 1/4 weight cannon and projectile for a 160kg cannon, 1m long muzzle and 1.7kg ball...

[The Pastor]

1/2 scale? nah bigger is good!

on a side note, i have just paid for my reloading setup, coming in from the states at around $380 including the dies
Cheapest in nz would of been $400-500

[ManDownUnder]

1/2 scale? nah bigger is good!

on a side note, i have just paid for my reloading setup, coming in from the states at around $380 including the dies
Cheapest in nz would of been $400-500

Brilliant - who'd you get those from?

[jono035]

Brilliant - who'd you get those from?

Yeah, and what is the setup, what are you getting with that?

Edit: Yeah, bigger is good, but a 700kg cannon might not be the best place to start... That can always be cannon #2... In fact, perhaps the first one should be something that will fire a golf ball.

[ManDownUnder]

Yeah, and what is the setup, what are you getting with that?

Edit: Yeah, bigger is good, but a 700kg cannon might not be the best place to start... That can always be cannon #2... In fact, perhaps the first one should be something that will fire a golf ball.

Yup - start with the ammo I reckon, something small and cheap. Ball bearings if you can source them (being an exact size...) or projectiles you can cast then size.

Learn you lessons with that, and any failures will be small(er)...

Don't go a for a cannon with a thumbhole in the woodword though - they're E-cat

[The Pastor]

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690030

thats the kit i got with the dies and shell holders - is there anything else i need? (apart from the 3p's?)

[jono035]

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=0000690030

thats the kit i got with the dies and shell holders - is there anything else i need? (apart from the 3p's?)

Nope, that kit is the same as the Lee 50th Anniversary kit ($250), so I'm getting that, dies ($90), a tumbler and separator kit ($200), Inertia bullet puller ($40) and some loaded round boxes...

Seems like the same price to me but I'm getting 9mm dies which must be pretty common...

Edit: Difference in kit is safety prime vs auto prime, USD$17 difference in cost according to the Lee website

[The Pastor]

Nope, that kit is the same as the Lee 50th Anniversary kit ($250), so I'm getting that, dies ($90), a tumbler and separator kit ($200), Inertia bullet puller ($40) and some loaded round boxes...

Seems like the same price to me but I'm getting 9mm dies which must be pretty common...

Edit: Difference in kit is safety prime vs auto prime, USD$17 difference in cost according to the Lee website
yeah my dies are about 130$ i think - no one could give me a price in nz, or could actually get them in

[wbks]

What the hell kind of weapon are you nutters talking about?

[Indiana_Jones]

What the hell kind of weapon are you nutters talking about?

You know how bad we "Right-wing, Nazi, gun owners" are...

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

You know how bad we "Right-wing, Nazi, gun owners" are...

-Indy


zyklon-B distribution kits

[jono035]

Metalcorp has a buy price for scrap brass listed as $4.50 per kg, so at 1/2 scale that is $800 of brass... Crikey.

Apart from that, the rest seems disturbingly do-able. I've found a couple of places with plans for making:

Waste-oil powered burner (centrifugal blower and oil line basically)
Furnace (shell, can be sheet steel, some form of castable refractory ceramic material, that's just a buy-it deal)
Crucible (can use steel, brass melts at 900-950 degrees)

The actual mold process itself is a toss up at the moment though, some form of lost wax mold could be used by casting a big cylinder of wax and then turning it on a lathe to get the shape right (steel rod in the center) then layering the refractory ceramic around the outside and packing it in a crate with sand... would be a single shot thing though...

[The Pastor]

Metalcorp has a buy price for scrap brass listed as $4.50 per kg, so at 1/2 scale that is $800 of brass... Crikey.

Apart from that, the rest seems disturbingly do-able. I've found a couple of places with plans for making:

Waste-oil powered burner (centrifugal blower and oil line basically)
Furnace (shell, can be sheet steel, some form of castable refractory ceramic material, that's just a buy-it deal)
Crucible (can use steel, brass melts at 900-950 degrees)

The actual mold process itself is a toss up at the moment though, some form of lost wax mold could be used by casting a big cylinder of wax and then turning it on a lathe to get the shape right (steel rod in the center) then layering the refractory ceramic around the outside and packing it in a crate with sand... would be a single shot thing though...
geffom has a foundry.........

[jono035]

geffom has a foundry.........

Well shit, that makes it easier...

Will it handle 200kg of bronze?

[The Pastor]

Well shit, that makes it easier...

Will it handle 200kg of bronze?
you'd have to ask him mate

[Mr Merde]

Cowboy Action Shooting Northern Regionals At Waiuku Pistol Club
Whiriwhiri Road
Waiuku

This Saturday and Sunday

Sat- Main match
Sun- Side matches

I'm going to be there as a spectator on Sat. Got a few NSA flyers to distribute

[jono035]

http://www.guncity.co.nz/recent-adverts-xidc44754.html

Indy - This is a link to the gun city ad showing the Norinco SKS rifles for 399 and the M14 for 599...

Also a Marlin 30/30 lever for $1k

And they're still selling USCs, SL8s and G22s as A-category, gotta love it!

[Indiana_Jones]

Cheers Jono.

Hmmmm tempting.

-Indy

[The Pastor]

thats a cheap price for the 30/30 mxlr

[geoffm]

Well shit, that makes it easier...

Will it handle 200kg of bronze?

Haven't done any sand casting for a while, and never anything that big.
Talk to South Auckland Foundry, Hunua Road, Papakura.
It will not be cheap.
Home made cannons I have seen previously use a welded up heavy wall pipe liner as the barrel, and the barrel is cast around this, so you are not really relying on the casting for much.
Geoff

[jono035]

Haven't done any sand casting for a while, and never anything that big.
Talk to South Auckland Foundry, Hunua Road, Papakura.
It will not be cheap.
Home made cannons I have seen previously use a welded up heavy wall pipe liner as the barrel, and the barrel is cast around this, so you are not really relying on the casting for much.
Geoff

Ahhh, that makes a bit of sense actually, seems a little like cheating though!

Would be keen to take a shot at casting something myself but I'm sure as hell not starting with something that weighs 200kg... Maybe something that weighs 500grams and shoots ball bearings perhaps...

[jono035]

Just went through and sorted all my saved 9mm brass.

1246 Federal American Eagle cases, all once-fired.
56 other random cases

Pretty decent little cache to start reloading from I think... Tallies up at just over a grand spent on pistol ammo and about 1500 rounds fired total, not a huge amount compared to a proper target shooter but still...

Might go get myself one of those Frankford Arsenal case tumblers tomorrow to get some of this stuff cleaned up and ready for my press to arrive...

[Indiana_Jones]

That's a lot of brass lol

-Indy

[jono035]

That's a lot of brass lol

-Indy

Yeah, probably a pretty good indicator of what MDU was saying before in terms of 'Parkinson's Law'...

[JDK]

oh cowboy shoot far north that sounds like Kid's area
ya should be getting out ya chaps and hat with ya new 45/70 for the side matchs

i was thinking about the NZ champs in Nov near gladstone (?) but too much on pruneing trees and spraying lambing etc etc bad timeing realy
catch ya
JDK

[The Pastor]

how was the cas?

[Indiana_Jones]

Pretty sweet.

Was interesting to watch :niceone:

-Indy

[jono035]

Pretty sweet.

Was interesting to watch :niceone:

-Indy

Sounds good, would have loved to wander down, had my girlfriends family in town to catch up with us and her newborn niece.

[Indiana_Jones]

Well there it is, round one.


<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=140910&stc=1&d=1252214739">

<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=140911&stc=1&d=1252214739">

Though I seated the bullet too far in :lol:

Live and learn.

But as Chris said, the process isn't hard.

-Indy

[wbks]

Is it easy to find military surplus 303 ammo? Is the 303 surplus as cheap as the 308 factory stuff? Just wondering because someone mentioned how much more expensive each round of 303 was compared to 308, which makes me think that buying one of the parker hale 303s that are on tardme would actually end up more pricey to buy and shoot than a 308.

[Indiana_Jones]

Is it easy to find military surplus 303 ammo? Is the 303 surplus as cheap as the 308 factory stuff? Just wondering because someone mentioned how much more expensive each round of 303 was compared to 308, which makes me think that buying one of the parker hale 303s that are on tardme would actually end up more pricey to buy and shoot than a 308.

Ummmm there is a bit of .303 surplus floating around.

Even 7.62x54R too.

If cost is a super worry, should get into reloading :niceone:

-Indy

[wbks]

Well that would be good, but I'd rather just buy 20rd boxes to begin with. What kind of pricing does the 303 go for? Why X54R surplus? Did NZ have MNs as service rifles for a time or something?

[Indiana_Jones]

Well that would be good, but I'd rather just buy 20rd boxes to begin with. What kind of pricing does the 303 go for? Why X54 surplus? Did NZ have MNs as service rifles for a time or something?

You can get highland at like $40 for 20, Winchester at labout $55-60 for 20. It's roughly the same per 20 as most large caliber ammo is at the moment.

and there's some surplus here of 7.62x54R here as people import it dirt cheap and flog it off for a buck :D

-Indy

[wbks]

Lucky you. Nah, there are a few brands of 308 on guncity's website for $21 for 20rds, cheapest is $40 for 303 like you said.

[jono035]

Well that would be good, but I'd rather just buy 20rd boxes to begin with. What kind of pricing does the 303 go for? Why X54R surplus? Did NZ have MNs as service rifles for a time or something?

Doesn't mean surplus from NZ army, means surplus from some army somewhere.

As for the pricing, you can usually figure it out roughly by either looking at websites or ringing around gun stores... It's good practice to research all of this stuff before buying a rifle. Same for things like magazines as well, worth trying to find a price so you know what the story is.

Found an interesting quote that I hadn't seen just before while doing some reloading reading, one for all the hoplophobes that seem to be coming out of the woodwork.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[jono035]

Lucky you. Nah, there are a few brands of 308 on guncity's website for $21 for 20rds, cheapest is $40 for 303 like you said.

There ya go.

[wbks]

Doesn't mean surplus from NZ army, means surplus from some army somewhere.

As for the pricing, you can usually figure it out roughly by either looking at websites or ringing around gun stores... It's good practice to research all of this stuff before buying a rifle. Same for things like magazines as well, worth trying to find a price so you know what the story is.

Found an interesting quote that I hadn't seen just before while doing some reloading reading, one for all the hoplophobes that seem to be coming out of the woodwork.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund FreudMight as well get a 308, then. Even this cheap stuff looks pretty tight at 100 meters to me: http://www.guncity.co.nz/308-barnaul-win-7.62x51-140gr-sp-20rnds-xidp117470.html
Lol, great dude that Sigmund


There ya go.- Yea, but for all I know, surplus 303 is $10 for 20

[Indiana_Jones]

Anyone got some spare hammers for a side by side shottie?

Chris and I are after some.

Cheers

-Indy

[jono035]

Though I seated the bullet too far in

Did you buy yourself a bullet puller?

[Indiana_Jones]

Did you buy yourself a bullet puller?

Nooooooooooooope lol

-Indy

[Wolf]

Nooooooooooooope lol

-Indy
I can see that's going to be the next purchase...

[ManDownUnder]

Nooooooooooooope lol

-Indy

Ring reloaders, get a 30 cal collett for a Hornady one and come on over if you need to. Easy peasy.

Or get an inertial one (hammer type) if you want.

[jono035]

Nooooooooooooope lol

Ahhh, optimism!

[Indiana_Jones]

Or get an inertial one (hammer type) if you want.

Are they caliber specific or not?

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

Are they caliber specific or not?

-Indy

Dunno - I got the one to fit into my press... collet type. Works too!

[wbks]

Just pull it out with some vice grips...

[Indiana_Jones]

Just pull it out with some vice grips...

But I'll end up fucking the projectile up then

-Indy

[jono035]

Are they caliber specific or not?

-Indy

Don't think so. The ones I saw come with a set of plastic collets that will fit pretty much anything... You just tighten the end cap further to grip smaller cases I think... Serious Shooters had one for $45 or so...

Went in to Serious Shooters on saturday to see if they had any of the 50th anniversary kits. Talked to one of the guys there who was pretty dismissive of most of the Lee kit. Said he liked their challenger press but thought the powder measure was plastic crap, the breech lock press was flimsy and the die inserts were just something else that would wear out. Also said to ignore the powder scale and go straight to digital. Was a little intimidating actually and didn't line up with the general opinion from what I've read on the subject. Seems like anyone who has the gear loves it to pieces and everyone who has more expensive gear is dismissive of it.

The guy recommended a Lyman powder measure for $200, $100 digital scales, $250 challenger press or one of the RCBS or Lyman ones...

Think I'm still going with the Lee setup after doing some reading on it all again... Might think about adding a decapping-only die so that I can decap it all before cleaning too, I like shiny brass...

[jono035]

But I'll end up fucking the projectile up then

-Indy

That's fine, it's not like it's the most expensive part of the round or anything...

[Indiana_Jones]

That's fine, it's not like it's the most expensive part of the round or anything...

only 60c bro!

And as for the lee powder measure being crap, I donno as I havn't tried it, I've read reviews and a lot of people seem to think it's fine if you're making a lot of rounds and not fussed on perfect measures.

the scales seem to work ok for me, a bit fidley, so I will get some digital ones down the road :)

-Indy

[The Pastor]

Don't think so. The ones I saw come with a set of plastic collets that will fit pretty much anything... You just tighten the end cap further to grip smaller cases I think... Serious Shooters had one for $45 or so...

Went in to Serious Shooters on saturday to see if they had any of the 50th anniversary kits. Talked to one of the guys there who was pretty dismissive of most of the Lee kit. Said he liked their challenger press but thought the powder measure was plastic crap, the breech lock press was flimsy and the die inserts were just something else that would wear out. Also said to ignore the powder scale and go straight to digital. Was a little intimidating actually and didn't line up with the general opinion from what I've read on the subject. Seems like anyone who has the gear loves it to pieces and everyone who has more expensive gear is dismissive of it.

The guy recommended a Lyman powder measure for $200, $100 digital scales, $250 challenger press or one of the RCBS or Lyman ones...

Think I'm still going with the Lee setup after doing some reading on it all again... Might think about adding a decapping-only die so that I can decap it all before cleaning too, I like shiny brass...
was his name richard?

[jono035]

only 60c bro!

And as for the lee powder measure being crap, I donno as I havn't tried it, I've read reviews and a lot of people seem to think it's fine if you're making a lot of rounds and not fussed on perfect measures.

the scales seem to work ok for me, a bit fidley, so I will get some digital ones down the road :)

-Indy

Yeah, seems like most of the reviews I found as well (a few with actual measured throws) seemed to be pretty positive, some people saying they prefer them to some of the metal ones due to them not cutting powder grains...

60c ouch, that'd break me. I'm looking at someone selling some cast, sized and lubed projectiles for about 9c each although the berrys jacketed ones at 15c each wouldn't be the end of the world either.

[jono035]

was his name richard?

Can't remember, tall heavyset guy, very strange conversational style...

[Indiana_Jones]

60c ouch, that'd break me. I'm looking at someone selling some cast, sized and lubed projectiles for about 9c each although the berrys jacketed ones at 15c each wouldn't be the end of the world either.

yea, but when 20 rounds of .30 + is costing $80, it's still cheaper lol :buggerd:

-Indy

[The Pastor]

dunno cant remember what richard looks like (and thats a good thing haha) but richard has no small opinion of himself thats for sure .... sounds like my boss.

[jono035]

dunno cant remember what richard looks like (and thats a good thing haha) but richard has no small opinion of himself thats for sure .... sounds like my boss.

I think Richard might have been the short guy with glasses... The weird thing is the first time I went in there looking to get ammo and some more cleaning gear (copper solvent specifically) I got no help and ended up buying nothing, the 2nd time I went in to get my pistol safe and it was pretty much here ya go, see ya later... At least I got talked to this time I guess!

Edit: By comparison the guy from Reloader's Supplies didn't offer any advice on any of the reloading gear but had plenty of advice with regards to the rifles and gun safes that he was happy to show me...

[The Pastor]

yeah sounds about right.

[Wolf]

the guy from Reloader's Supplies didn't offer any advice on any of the reloading gear but had plenty of advice with regards to the rifles and gun safes that he was happy to show me...
Hmmmm. To quote Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels: "alarm bells are ringing, Willy."

[Indiana_Jones]

Hmmmm. To quote Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels: "alarm bells are ringing, Willy."

heheehehe

Willy.

-Indy

[Swoop]

Are they caliber specific or not?

-Indy
No. The base of the round is held by 3 claws which can adjust to any case size. An inertia hammer is a nice thing to have around when you cock-up a round!
Tap it out and reload, no worries!

he liked their challenger press but thought the powder measure was plastic crap, Also said to ignore the powder scale and go straight to digital.
The guy recommended a Lyman powder measure for $200, $100 digital scales, $250 challenger press or one of the RCBS or Lyman ones...
Have you investigated Hornady gear?
I have a Lee single stage press, which I began reloading with, and a Hornady progressive.
A hornady powder thrower sits on top of the progressive. Calibrate with regular balance-scale to get the right amount of powder coming out.
A simple setup that works well for loading 50 or 500 rounds!

[Mr Merde]

Went turkey hunting yesterday.
Took out a nice young tom and a female.

Thats XMAS taken care of.

Picking up th shell holder for the 45-70 this afternoon. Will get it home load up about 50 45-70 rounds.

Get to know the Trapdoor Springfield (Indy can atest as to how nice it is).

Going down to Taupo on Wednesday to visit the missus' daughter.

Son in law is taking the Thursday off and we will take a couple of rifles into the bush and try for a deer. Just a day hunt but apparently this track hasnt failed to produce. Probably will for me though.

Will take the .44 mag, the 45-70 Springfield and the .223.

That should cover all eventualities.

[The Pastor]

good luck with the deer hunt

[Mr Merde]

good luck with the deer hunt

My son in law does a lot of 4 wheel driving around Taupo and this particlar area he said he always sees deer and they arent too skittisk of the 4 wheel drivers.

He has also seen boar running through the area in the mid afternoon.

If we dont get one it will not be through lack of trying.,

[The Pastor]

wel if the day fails you can do what the americans do.

Put down a mass of deer corn feed, climb a tree have a nap and wait a bit. maybe use the deer caller hahah

[Mr Merde]

Looking forward to hunting with the 45-70

and BLACK POWDER

[Drunken Monkey]

Reloading needs it's own sub-thread. It's too nerdy, even for me.

[jono035]

Reloading needs it's own sub-thread. It's too nerdy, even for me.

You'd be surprised how straightforward a lot of it is, and the lure of ammo that is simultaneously cheaper and better quality than factory ammo can be a powerful motivator...

Good luck with the deer chris, some wild pork would be a pretty good addition too.

RM - It just occurred to me, what about cartridge brass from .22 casings as a cannon material? Seems doable from the melting temperatures that I can find and it isn't exactly in short supply at the CSI range...

Edit: Found a guy saying he melts cartridges to make brass knife fittings... Apparently it is high-copper so should cast well...

[Mr Merde]

I was talking to my mate from the UK about your planned project.

He has made 3 cannon already.

Smallest has a 36" barrel.

When he gets back to the UK in 2 weeks time he is going to send the plans along with instructions for manufacture.

He cast the brass around a 1" seamless pipe

[Swoop]

Reloading needs it's own sub-thread. It's too nerdy, even for me.
Perhaps the firearms social group would be a better place?

[Indiana_Jones]

Perhaps the firearms social group would be a better place?

OMG we have one of those?!

-Indy

[jono035]

I was talking to my mate from the UK about your planned project.

He has made 3 cannon already.

Smallest has a 36" barrel.

When he gets back to the UK in 2 weeks time he is going to send the plans along with instructions for manufacture.

He cast the brass around a 1" seamless pipe

36" barrel sounds like fun.

Casting it around a seamless pipe as a barrel sleeve sounds like the way to do it, saves having to cast extra brass and then machine back. Would be very interesting to see those plans.

I quite like the idea of trying to cast it from left over cartridge brass from .22LR casings, makes it a recycled cannon... Not sure if the material is particularly appropriate though, but with a steel barrel sleeve that may not matter...

[JDK]

Intresting ya say about melting down fired cases for brass the old brass spurs of the horseman were made from brass taken from the battle feild hence enlisted men with brass spurs had been in battle IE earn yer spurs ..

as for chaps ummmmmmmmm worrying thing being a cowboy shooter outsiders think YMCA or brokeback mountain :gob:

[The Pastor]

36" barrel sounds like fun.

Casting it around a seamless pipe as a barrel sleeve sounds like the way to do it, saves having to cast extra brass and then machine back. Would be very interesting to see those plans.

I quite like the idea of trying to cast it from left over cartridge brass from .22LR casings, makes it a recycled cannon... Not sure if the material is particularly appropriate though, but with a steel barrel sleeve that may not matter...
this is starting to sound really good!

[jono035]

this is starting to sound really good!

Yeah. With a bit of space I'd still be keen to give building a furnace a shot. Could make a small one to start with for cleaning up the brass and making ingots then a big fucker for casting from...

Just need somewhere to set fire to...

JDK: Brokeback mountain must have made your guys lives that much harder I'm guessing...

[The Pastor]

Yeah. With a bit of space I'd still be keen to give building a furnace a shot. Could make a small one to start with for cleaning up the brass and making ingots then a big fucker for casting from...

Just need somewhere to set fire to...

JDK: Brokeback mountain must have made your guys lives that much harder I'm guessing...
yeah space is an issue, dead keen on learning to cast tho. custom bike parts here i come :D

[Mr Merde]

Well after much talking about it my Springfield Trapdoor Cadet rifle is here.

It is a beauty.

I have been all over it with a magnifying glass and a reference book about these rifles and it is genuine. Not a put together bitsa.

The wood work has a few dings and dent but it is 126 years old. Made in 1883.

The blueing is 90% still there. There are a few places where it has worn off but to be expected.

The bore is perfect and the action is very tight. Lockup is great. Trigger a little on the heavy side but crisp with a supprise break to it.

Sights are original and are going to take a little getting used to. Sighted to 1100 yards but in reality only a 500-800 yard max shooter.

Picked up the shell holder last night so tonight I will be loading my first rounds for it.

I took it to the CAS event last Saturday to show some mates and they were drooling over it.

As said yesterday, I am taking it hunting on Thursday. 45-70 is enough for any porker or deer I comne accross and I shouldnt need more than one shot with that load.

Indy got to view and handle the rifle on Saturday and I know it did nothing to dampen his enthusiasm for single shot rifles. Quite the opposite.

Chris

[The Pastor]

that reloading book you lent me chris is pretty spot on, so easy to read and understand.

my reloading gear will be sent when the items from backorder arrive, funny how before i paid everything was "instock and ready to go" >_<

[Indiana_Jones]

Indy got to view and handle the rifle on Saturday and I know it did nothing to dampen his enthusiasm for single shot rifles. Quite the opposite.

Chris

She is a beauty Chris :)

And I love single shot rifles. Got a certain air of class about them.

But saying that I think a Semi-Auto wouldn't go missing from my collection.

-Indy

[jono035]

She is a beauty Chris :)

And I love single shot rifles. Got a certain air of class about them.

But saying that I think a Semi-Auto wouldn't go missing from my collection.

-Indy

Norinco M14 perhaps... Or a Tigr

[wbks]

Norinco M14 perhaps... Or a TigrAre tigrs the same as used in Vietnam? They look a little similar to the AK. Are they?

[jono035]

Are tigrs the same as used in Vietnam? They look a little similar to the AK. Are they?

The Tigr's are the hunting variant of the Dragunov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SVD_(rifle)), which looks like it was a quite new rifle around the Vietnam era. Probably a bit too expensive/specialist really... Don't know much about it though...

[wbks]

Just out of interest, what is glass bedding? There are a few sporters (should be getting something soon, Allah willing) advertising that, and I was just wondering?

[jono035]

Just out of interest, what is glass bedding? There are a few sporters (should be getting something soon, Allah willing) advertising that, and I was just wondering?

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/gunsmithing/bedding_0304/

Bedding is basically just fixing the barrel more firmly to the stock so that it doesn't move when fired. Personally I don't really see what the point is but then I have no experience with it. It seems to me that as long as the barrel and scope are firmly attached to the action in such a way as the 2 cannot easily move out of alignment (10/22s would seem to be brilliant for this) then there is no point. My guess is that to a certain extent it dampens barrel harmonics but that in itself can be a blessing or a curse given that these harmonics change drastically with different loads. The bedding could easily make it shoot one type of load slightly better at the expense of other types of load.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Most 'out of the box' rifles today can be improved with a basic bedding job, and floating the barrel. It all depends what degree of accuracy you need. A rifle that shoots 2" groups at 100 yards/metres is usually ok for deer. On the other hand for a 'varmint' rifle anything less than 'minute of angle' ( 1" groups at 100 yards)
is not good enough. 1/2'' groups would be better. Personally I enjoy extracting
increased accuracy from my rifles, but then that's just me. You do need a good starting point, you'll never get amazing accuracy from a Lee Enfield for example, it was designed as a battle rifle, and 2'' groups was 'acceptable'.

[wbks]

So stopping the barrel touching the stock compared to bracing the barrel with the stock... In theory that means that a light barrel would be better bedded, and a heavy one floated? And suppressed rifles more accurate with bedding?
Another random question to bother you guys with: Do many people in NZ have pattern 1853 Enfields, maybe shoot them?

[frogfeaturesFZR]

What you are aiming for ( excuse that ) is the rifle barrel 'ripples' the same way for each shot. The barrel actually ' moves' microscopically as each shot passes through it. As it heats up and expands, where it was free floating before it may touch the fore end as it expands. Different point of impact. Heavy barrels heat up more slowly. Facinating subject, google rifle bedding and have a read.

[jono035]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/sixpounder.jpg

That's the dimensioning of a 6lb 1841 field gun. Bronze cast, weighs 400kg.

1/2 scale is 1/8th weight or 50kg.

Seems pretty reasonable, 125mm diameter barrel at the thickest point, 760mm barrel length.

[The Pastor]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v337/johnoder/sixpounder.jpg

That's the dimensioning of a 6lb 1841 field gun. Bronze cast, weighs 400kg.

1/2 scale is 1/8th weight or 50kg.

Seems pretty reasonable, 125mm diameter barrel at the thickest point, 760mm barrel length.
why is the 1/2 scale 1/8th the weight?

[jono035]

why is the 1/2 scale 1/8th the weight?

if you halve all the dimensions then you have (1/2)^3 the amount of material

There are 8x 0.5" cubes in a 1" cube...

[The Pastor]

so it'd shoot a 3 pound shot?

[jono035]

so it'd shoot a 3 pound shot?

No, 1/8 * 6 so 0.75lb or 341g.

Volume = 4/3 * pi * r^3

Same deal.

[The Pastor]

oh...... maths is misleading

[Indiana_Jones]

I think you melted his brain.....

-Indy

[jono035]

Still wondering about the cartridge brass as a cannon material. It says that it is a good material for cold working which makes me wonder if it is going to expand and either create a void between the brass and the barrel sleeve or harden and split/explode.

Of course, if we use loads that the steel sleeve will fire on its own then that is moot point, but unless you can load it up and stick a concrete-filled beer can a couple of metres deep into the cliff then whats the point :D

[jono035]

I think you melted his brain.....

-Indy

I did 4 years of crazy maths for engineering, I got used to living with a molten brain :p

[Indiana_Jones]

I did 4 years of crazy maths for engineering, I got used to living with a molten brain :p

Everyone knows the ginger beers are lazy bro!

-Indy

[jono035]

Everyone knows the ginger beers are lazy bro!

-Indy

... uhhh, wtf??

[jono035]

Ahhh balls, I forgot about the beer-can projectile requirement.

For a 67mm diameter bore then that is a 1:1.4 scale which leads to a weight of 146kg.... Hmmm....

[wbks]

Any of these in NZ?

[Wolf]

Any of these in NZ?
Oh, fuck, I hope so!

[Indiana_Jones]

Any of these in NZ?

If you find one, send it to my house lol

-Indy

[sAsLEX]

I did 4 years of crazy maths for engineering, I got used to living with a molten brain :p

Shit I chose my Engineering degree to drop math in the 4th year...... and haven't used 3rd order differential equations since!




ps Why do movie guns need constant loading and unloading until they are fired?

[jono035]

Shit I chose my Engineering degree to drop math in the 4th year...... and haven't used 3rd order differential equations since!

ps Why do movie guns need constant loading and unloading until they are fired?

Between Radio Systems and Signal Processing that's basically 4th year maths for you anyway. I also did Advanced Power Systems which had some crazy multi-variate calc in it too.

People give a lot of the math a bad rap, but it is worth having learned, because there is definitely no other time in your life when you're going to do it!

[JDK]

The 3 band enfield i'm guessing there could be a few most i'm guessing italy made
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.uberti.com/

high walls and cattleman pistols etc etc
-------------------------------------------------

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/?item=CategorieFucili&lang=en

front stuffers rolling blocks sharps etc etc etc
----------------------------------------------------
NZ agent for these
http://www.hayesandassociates.co.nz/

catch ya
JDK

[wbks]

Oh, fuck, I hope so!


If you find one, send it to my house lol

-IndyGive me the $700 odd to buy a replica and I'll let you have a turn with it:wari:
It would be family memorabilia, so I'll keep it...

[The Pastor]

NZ Guns and Hunting Magazine <-- i think this is my fav mag out atm, its better by far from all the other mags. Top stuff.

[Indiana_Jones]

lol no more fishing Scott, this is a firearm thread!

-Indy

[jono035]

lol no more fishing Scott, this is a firearm thread!

-Indy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APS_Underwater_Assault_Rifle

No reason we can't combine those 2 passtimes...

[The Pastor]

well it looks like bullets can not be shipped out of the US. :(

[jono035]

well it looks like bullets can not be shipped out of the US. :(

The soft point 308mx bullets? Ouch, that's pretty rough news, wtf is going on over there?

[wbks]

Are these kind of single shot 22s very good for plinking? As good as those suppressed Norinco's they sell for 300 odd? I've been told they (norincos) are pretty shit. Would the ones in the links be very loud? Its been so long since I used a 22 I can't remember. The closest neighbors are about 4-500 meters away, so I'm just wondering if I would be able to shoot a lot without complaints.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-241296347.htm http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-241263311.htm
Edit: I'm meaning sub sonics, btw. What kind of max distance can 22lr subsonic shoot at consistently? 50?

[Indiana_Jones]

Are these kind of single shot 22s very good for plinking? As good as those suppressed Norinco's they sell for 300 odd? I've been told they (norincos) are pretty shit. Would the ones in the links be very loud? Its been so long since I used a 22 I can't remember. The closest neighbors are about 4-500 meters away, so I'm just wondering if I would be able to shoot a lot without complaints.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-241296347.htm http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-241263311.htm
Edit: I'm meaning sub sonics, btw. What kind of max distance can 22lr subsonic shoot at consistently? 50?

The Norinco's arn't shit, for the bucks you pay for them you get a pretty good shooter.

As for noise the rifle makes, at 4-500m your neighbours won't hear much, so I wouldn't worry.

If you get a bolt one, I'd say get one with a mag (detachable or not). Or a semi, which ever takes your fancy

-Indy

[wbks]

I'd prefer a bolt, but does mag or single really matter? I only ask because there are quite a few cheap single shots, and seeing as I'm only going to be shooting at a barrel or a magpie i didn't think wouldn't make much difference if you're only suggesting one with a mag for follow up shots with rabbits or something?

[Indiana_Jones]

I'd prefer a bolt, but does mag or single really matter? I only ask because there are quite a few cheap single shots, and seeing as I'm only going to be shooting at a barrel or a magpie i didn't think wouldn't make much difference if you're only suggesting one with a mag for follow up shots with rabbits or something?

Well fair enough, if that's all you wish it for, go a single if it's cheaper and fits your needs :)

Or a Martini :D


<img src="http://www.marplerifleandpistolclub.org.uk/pictures/22rif01.jpg">

-Indy

[jono035]

keep an eye out on trademe and pick up a cheap bolt action, mag fed .22, there are tons around. The norincos are cheap, was just in SAI looking at a 9mm sig copy and a 1911 pattern 45 by them and it's just little things like the slide being a little rough, the metal starting to rust out slightly under the blueing, that kind of stuff.

Get a decent second hand one, it'll serve you better. Get one in stainless if possible and it'll last for donkeys.

[jono035]

Just had a glance through the rifles listed on trade-me and in hindsight those Norinco .22s are incredibly cheap, they can't help but be a good first step.

Anyone have any idea how well they shoot?

[Indiana_Jones]

Just had a glance through the rifles listed on trade-me and in hindsight those Norinco .22s are incredibly cheap, they can't help but be a good first step.

Anyone have any idea how well they shoot?

I've used Scott's JW15, it's a very good shooter

My only gripe is how the bolt comes up too high when up go to open it, it's the same on the CZ (whiched they copied the desgin from) and you tend to hit the scope with your fingers.

But for the money you pay you get a great rifle

-Indy

[wbks]

Depends how cheap I can get them for, really. I'm only planning on getting one to play with at home in between (hopefully) actually getting a hunting rifle and finally getting into it. At a guess, do those LR single shots (all look pretty similar) shoot very straight?

[jono035]

Depends how cheap I can get them for, really. I'm only planning on getting one to play with at home in between (hopefully) actually getting a hunting rifle and finally getting into it. At a guess, do those LR single shots (all look pretty similar) shoot very straight?

Tough to know, much the same probably, .22lr is weak enough that you can get the same accuracy regardless of action type, it's more about trigger quality and barrel stiffness/length...

[Mr Merde]

I was sitting on my deck yesterday morning when a pair of turkeys started calling from the field next door.

For those of you who know my place they were approx 50 metres further away from the cliff we usually shoot into.

Got out the .223 bolt action, extended the tripod, took aim and fired, a quick turn of the bolt and I took the second shot.

Result---- 2 more turkeys dressed and in the freezer.

Rough measurement put the distance at about 250 metres.

Nicest bit was that the shots were clean and my homeload performed very well.

As a note. .224 calibre, 52 gn, hollowpoint rounds moving at about 3000 fps, are explosive. Turkeys dropped like a stone. Both shots were to the chest cavity and the first bird when I picked it up had pieces of its heart and lungs comming out of the 25 mm exit wound.

Went down to Taupo last week and had a day tramping in the Kaimaniwa's.

Locals told me where there were pigs and Sika. Carried the trapdoor for 6 hours through the bush. Saw lots of sign but no shot able to be taken. Went back later that night and a local showed me where the aniimals usually congregated. I was about 1/2 mile out. Bugger, I really wanbted to blood the 1883 rifle. It is the only one of my firearms that hasnt drawn blood yet. It was a hard tramp for me but very satisfying.

Doctors orders were to get more exercise. I've been doing this. Lost 5kg in weight in the past 5 weeks. Blood pressure holding on the high side but docs are happy with improvement.

Shooting and hunting are very good for your health it seems.

Off work this week. Next Saturday my friend from the Uk wants to go to Whitianga for a black powder shoot. Going to be a busy time.

Chris

[jono035]

Saw lots of sign but no shot able to be taken.

Doh, bad luck Chris, but good job getting out there, 5kg is pretty good too, hows the smoking coming? :p

Interesting about the .223 vs turkey, wouldn't have thought they were solid enough to fragment the bullet but I guess at that speed pretty much anything would...

Edit: Guess you probably don't have to worry too much about finding stray shot in them though...

[jono035]

Got anything special planned with your week off, Chris?

[Mr Merde]

Got anything special planned with your week off, Chris?

Loaded up 50 Black powder 45-70 rounds. Whitianga shoot next Saturday. Might go and practice with the "short" rifles

Taking my UK friend to Zion lion park

Showing Mark some properties for sale.

Relaxing.

[Indiana_Jones]

Relaxing, Sounds good!

-Indy

[jono035]

Sounds good alright... Kick back and let some BP rip for us suckers at work (not that I can really call Uni work...).

Picked up 2kg of AP70 on the bike, fits perfectly in the tank-boot thing, that got a chuckle from the guy.

Projectiles should be here today, press should be here this weekend hopefully and with nothing planned I can start load workup... Looking forward to getting started...

[Indiana_Jones]

I have half a dozen rounds made up now! lol

-Indy

[jono035]

I have half a dozen rounds made up now! lol

-Indy

That's hardly the Indiana Jones Ammunition Factory Ltd. :D

[Indiana_Jones]

That's hardly the Indiana Jones Ammunition Factory Ltd. :D

lol I've been busy dealing with moving flats!

-Indy

[jono035]

lol I've been busy dealing with moving flats!

-Indy

Ahhh, true. All done and sorted ok?

CSI gets paid $5/kg for mixed brass casings... Apparently we get through 20-30kg a month...

Found an interesting website with a bit of design info for BP cannons, both for salutes and projectile firing, Greybeard Outdoors forum (http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?PHPSESSID=6c5lmsg7ab2je2etrpfc8bau41&board=88.0).

Basically steel sleeved barrel or don't fire it. Seamless pipe and they also say no welding, so buggered if I know how it is supposed to be capped...

[Indiana_Jones]

Ahhh, true. All done and sorted ok?



Nope, moving this week.

-Indy

[sAsLEX]

Doctors orders were to get more exercise.
Chris

Mention anything about smoking?


I have been out round the bach in the south island quite a few times now, but still nothing to blood my new rifle other than the possum...... seen a few deer in passing but no shots on.

[Indiana_Jones]

Mention anything about smoking?



Yeah, it makes you look cool....


<img src="http://www.cinemaretro.com/uploads/mcqueensmoke.jpg">

-Indy

[Wolf]

Yeah, it makes you look cool....


<img src="http://www.cinemaretro.com/uploads/mcqueensmoke.jpg">

-Indy

Or downright sexy, if ya gots what it takes...


<img src="http://www.emulsioncompulsion.com/gallery2/d/44796-6/Drew+Barrymore.jpg">

[jono035]

I have a sneaking suspicion that it may not actually be entirely the work of the cigarette in those photos... :D

[sAsLEX]

Yeah, it makes you look cool....


-Indy

<img src=http://static.stuff.co.nz/1251766988/639/2822639.jpg>

http://www.quit.org.nz/file/vids/TQG_Adrian_5_Regret.mpg

[Wolf]

I have a sneaking suspicion that it may not actually be entirely the work of the cigarette in those photos... :D
You're quite right.

There's definitely something special about black and white photographs...

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src=http://static.stuff.co.nz/1251766988/639/2822639.jpg>

http://www.quit.org.nz/file/vids/TQG_Adrian_5_Regret.mpg

Sif, he's faking it.

-Indy

[The Pastor]

For tube mags, are round nose projectiles ok? or dose it have to be flat nose?

[jono035]

For tube mags, are round nose projectiles ok? or dose it have to be flat nose?

Depends on the 'roundness' I would guess (ogive I believe it is called)... Probably caliber and primer size too...

Could always test it by loading rounds with nothing but primers and projectiles, getting a tube and dropping one round through it onto the other from varying heights? Any primer impression or fired primer = bad?

Edit: On second thoughts, could do it with a fired or oiled primer too, just press the end of the bullet into the primer and see if it can make a dent, if so then probably unsafe.

[Mr Merde]

For tube mags, are round nose projectiles ok? or dose it have to be flat nose?

I wouldnt trust the round nose bullets. Flat nose are safest. The last thing you want is a chainfire in your magazine. You may loose some distance with the flat nose but what is that compared to the damage to your rifle from a round going off in the mag.

When I first got my lever action I =didnt know this and I cast round nose bullets. They sat on the primer of the bullet in front.

Dont forget even with out powder a primer can send a bullet quite a way up the barrel and I have seen them fall out the muzzle end. Happened to me once and the bullet fi nished up just 2" from the muzzle.

A primer alone has enough power to take a finger off a hand.

Dont mess around.



I have now made up 50 rounds for the 45-70. Run out of BP and cases so I will have to wait to load some more.

Chris

[ghost]

For tube mags, are round nose projectiles ok? or dose it have to be flat nose?

you could try those new fangled LEVERevolution thingys, they are suppost to work well, never tried them myself...

[The Pastor]

you could try those new fangled leverevolution thingys, they are suppost to work well, never tried them myself...
they work great mate, just an expence to reload.

According to the marlin owners fourm (american) the tube mag thing with pointy tips is just a big old wifes tale..... Dont trust yank judgement tho

[jono035]

they work great mate, just an expence to reload.

According to the marlin owners fourm (american) the tube mag thing with pointy tips is just a big old wifes tale..... Dont trust yank judgement tho

Probably one of those situations where 99% of the time you're fine, but then 1% of the time your gun explosively disassembles itself.

[Swoop]

Well, after a morning of visiting gun shops...:banana::2thumbsup

I was most impressed with a little Rossi youth rifle at Serious Rooters. Interchangable barrel from .22lr to .410.
Single shot and with a nice action. This would break down nicely to pop into a pack for when those bloody possums arrive at your campsite!
Cheap price too. Blued steel was a little over $300-

[wbks]

Hey, this is probably a stupid question... But, do all bolt action 22s shoot everything from high velocity to sub sonics, fine?

[Indiana_Jones]

Hey, this is probably a stupid question... But, do all bolt action 22s shoot everything from high velocity to sub sonics, fine?

That they do.

No such thing as a silly question when regarding firearms. Gotta be sure!

-Indy

[wbks]

Yea, I thought that some semis might have trouble with weak sub sonics, but wondered if there might have been something to do with pressures in the barrel.

[Indiana_Jones]

Yea, I thought that some semis might have trouble with weak sub sonics, but wondered if there might have been something to do with pressures in the barrel.

Yea, with semi's you'd want make sure, but with bolt it's all good.

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

Hey, this is probably a stupid question... But, do all bolt action 22s shoot everything from high velocity to sub sonics, fine?

They all spit the bit of lead out the end... yes. Every rifle has a preference for some ammo and not others though, so it pays to have a play with different kinds of ammo till you find one that groups nicely, then stick to it if you can.

Obviously if you're intending to hunt with it - grab the different kinds of hunting ammo to try out, or target shooting you'd grab the target rounds.

[wbks]

At the moment I'm only really looking at regular or sub sonics for plinking and obviously I can get what ever shoots best within that. I could get high velocity but I'd prefer to be able to shoot all day in the paddock without the neighbors getting annoyed, and anything other than high velocity sounds too quiet to even hear at 500 mtrs away. That, and the farmers won't think I'm doin' some cattle rustling hahaha

[jono035]

At the moment I'm only really looking at regular or sub sonics for plinking and obviously I can get what ever shoots best within that. I could get high velocity but I'd prefer to be able to shoot all day in the paddock without the neighbors getting annoyed, and anything other than high velocity sounds too quiet to even hear at 500 mtrs away. That, and the farmers won't think I'm doin' some cattle rustling hahaha

Yeah, with a couple of very specific exceptions, any .22 ammo will do fine. Most of the semi-autos will cycle with decent subsonic loads (CCI subs for instance) too unless they're dirty or have an overly strong spring, but this is rare.

The only time you'll run into issues really is with the heavy target barrels (like the one on my target 10/22). They are tight barrels to begin with and the rifling goes all the way back to the casing so the bullet is wedged into the rifling before it is fired. The biggest problems I had were CCI stingers (complete no go) and some of the subsonic rounds. These were due to slightly oversized projectiles.

For plinking CCI standard is pretty good value ($65/brick of 1k rounds from Reloaders Supplies) with good quality to boot. Most of the other cheaper stuff can be a little bit variable in terms of accuracy...

[hospitalfood]

winchester long-z is interesting .22 ammo. quiet as a silenced round without the silencer.

slow as but effective out to 50 m probably, depending on the target.

worth a try, good fun stuff and accurate.

[Indiana_Jones]

Good ammo also makes cleaning a lot easier I find.

Highland is flithy flithy stuff lol

-Indy

[jono035]

Good ammo also makes cleaning a lot easier I find.

Highland is flithy flithy stuff lol

-Indy

Ugh, highland is fucking terrible. They started shooting it as the cheap ammo at CSI, smells terrible and leaves a bad taste in my throat too.

Don't know about accuracy but it doesn't sound consistent when firing...

[The Pastor]

Many a possum has fallen as a direct result of highland ammo :d

one of my gun mags has highland ammo as the authors fave brand ahahaha

[Indiana_Jones]

Highland shoots straight enough, just flithy lol

CCI is pretty clean, hardly use any patches with it.

-Indy

[scumdog]

Highland shoots straight enough, just flithy lol

CCI is pretty clean, hardly use any patches with it.

-Indy

Can't remember the last time I cleaned the bore of any of my .22 rifles.
A wipe down of the bolt etc and a drop of oil is all the lovin' they get.

[Wolf]

Can't remember the last time I cleaned the bore of any of my .22 rifles.
A wipe down of the bolt etc and a drop of oil is all the lovin' they get.
My bore cleaning is irregular. It may get cleaned when I get home if I have the energy to do more than shove the rifle in the cabinet and lock it. More likely it'll get cleaned the night before a planned shoot. Always comes up shiny, though.

[The Pastor]

can't remember the last time i cleaned the bore of any of my .22 rifles.
A wipe down of the bolt etc and a drop of oil is all the lovin' they get.
what a waste of oil

[ghost]

Hey, this is probably a stupid question... But, do all bolt action 22s shoot everything from high velocity to sub sonics, fine?


Yup, would also pay to have a bit of a play to see what brand shoots where.

My BRNO throws any brand in the same place time after time, only varies with sub's being lower at range. My 10/22 definatly is a bit fussy with some of the slow stuff, not cycling, but throws it around more.

[jono035]

Can't remember the last time I cleaned the bore of any of my .22 rifles.
A wipe down of the bolt etc and a drop of oil is all the lovin' they get.

Sounds like how I treat my possuming gun, my target rifle gets treated a little bit better but still not all that great.

All my guns are stainless barrels (except the 9mm) for that very reason!

[ManDownUnder]

Can't remember the last time I cleaned the bore of any of my .22 rifles.
A wipe down of the bolt etc and a drop of oil is all the lovin' they get.

I understand some of the really good target shooters actively advocate not cleaning .22 barrels after running them in. Along the lines of putting a fouling shot through a barrel to get it shooting straight - except the barrel is always fouled becuase there's no copper build up in it

[jono035]

I understand some of the really good target shooters actively advocate not cleaning .22 barrels after running them in. Along the lines of putting a fouling shot through a barrel to get it shooting straight - except the barrel is always fouled becuase there's no copper build up in it

Just as often I've seen them advocate giving the barrel a good scrub with solvent etc. then clean patches then firing a fouling shot, with this process repeated after every string. I think a lot of the process may not actually matter, providing you do the same thing each time...

Edit: This may be more for centerfire benchrest shooting though, been doing more reading about that than .22 stuff recently...

[doc]

Just as often I've seen them advocate giving the barrel a good scrub with solvent etc. then clean patches then firing a fouling shot, with this process repeated after every string. I think a lot of the process may not actually matter, providing you do the same thing each time...

Personally I think when you compare armchair opinion with accuracy the problem develops. If you are aiming to have every one follow the path of the last one fine. Don't compare it with the last succesful kill.

IMOA guns were not designed for targets.

Before you get your nickers in a twists , I enjoy target shooting.

Accuracy involves the input of the armchairs to improve the killrate

[jono035]

I definitely agree that accuracy for hunting and targets are 2 different things.

The accuracy I was referring to was for .22LR target barrels, which are not (to my knowledge, anyway) used for the type of bush-bashing hunting I assume you are referring to.

I have a gun for each and several more for just making noise and having fun. Each to their own.

Hunting is a test of the shooters skill whereas target shooting is a test of the shooters equipment. I don't hunt anything beyond possums for dog food and the occasional rabbit (don't enjoy eating rabbit though).

[wbks]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-242382735.htm This looks like a good buy

[jono035]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-242382735.htm This looks like a good buy

I dunno, I'd probably steer clear of the reloading stuff for a while and try find a cheap lee enfield with a scope on it. There were a few that sold for around $150 last week, a couple of scopeless ones going for $120ish. That reloading kit and the materials are probably only worth around $150ish...

[ManDownUnder]

Check http://www.offtheback.co.nz/ today.

There's a velvet lined ali box I think would be a great ammo tin, or spray a bit of gun oil around in there and you could just check bolts or whatever in their and they'd be polished and lubed while they bounce around as you ride.

[jono035]

Called Reloader's Supplies on Friday morning to get an updated arrival time on their 50th anniversary kits. Got told probably '2 weeks, yeah, maybe 15 days', pretty much the same thing I got told 2 weeks ago so went stuff this and ordered all the stuff from Outdoor Supplies (http://www.outdoorsupplies.co.nz/) down in Carterton.

Had a good long chat with their storefront guy, Tim, on the phone about what they had in stock and what they could get in for me. He was pretty helpful with recommendations that were in the vein of what I was after (unlike Serious Shooters who went for the hard-sell or Reloader's Supplies who didn't seem interested) with a few ways to save money in terms of case cleaning and preparation. Asked if it could be here on Saturday and he said sure providing he can get it packed up and out on the courier asap so asked him to go for it.

Just noticed the courier hadn't been yet so checked outside the front door, courier card from Fastway Couriers saying 'we tried to deliver but noone was home'. Sigh. I always seem to have crappy experiences with NZ Couriers and Fastway Couriers.

Oh well, Monday should see me with the gear finally.

That and the brass polish that came with the Frankford Arsenal tumbler kit smells delicious...

[The Pastor]

Called Reloader's Supplies on Friday morning to get an updated arrival time on their 50th anniversary kits. Got told probably '2 weeks, yeah, maybe 15 days', pretty much the same thing I got told 2 weeks ago so went stuff this and ordered all the stuff from Outdoor Supplies (http://www.outdoorsupplies.co.nz/) down in Carterton.

Had a good long chat with their storefront guy, Tim, on the phone about what they had in stock and what they could get in for me. He was pretty helpful with recommendations that were in the vein of what I was after (unlike Serious Shooters who went for the hard-sell or Reloader's Supplies who didn't seem interested) with a few ways to save money in terms of case cleaning and preparation. Asked if it could be here on Saturday and he said sure providing he can get it packed up and out on the courier asap so asked him to go for it.

Just noticed the courier hadn't been yet so checked outside the front door, courier card from Fastway Couriers saying 'we tried to deliver but noone was home'. Sigh. I always seem to have crappy experiences with NZ Couriers and Fastway Couriers.

Oh well, Monday should see me with the gear finally.

That and the brass polish that came with the Frankford Arsenal tumbler kit smells delicious...
yeah i have no idea when my stuff is going to be sent either!

[jono035]

yeah i have no idea when my stuff is going to be sent either!

Murphys law as it seems to apply to me would suggest that it'll be sent 2 weeks from 2 weeks from 2 weeks from now whereupon it will promptly be lost by the courier company and then eaten by flying space monkeys (<= bitter that he has nothing left to do this weekend other than lunch with the in-laws).

[jono035]

Indy (or anyone else with a lee breech lock): Can you give me rough measurements on the diameter of the mounting holes and their spacing on the bench for the Breech Lock press?

I might screw another block of wood under the bench where I'll be mounting the press to beef it up a little. Need to know how much wood to put under there and I can't find jack all in terms of info online.

[hospitalfood]

check this

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=243046125

[hospitalfood]

and this

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=243047876

[jono035]

Yours I'm guessing?

[wbks]

What kind of money would you guys expect people to pay for that savage?

[Indiana_Jones]

Indy (or anyone else with a lee breech lock): Can you give me rough measurements on the diameter of the mounting holes and their spacing on the bench for the Breech Lock press?


Only just read this now, been moving all weekend.

My lock is at my folks place for the moment, will try to remember to get that measurement for you next time I'm over there

-Indy

[jono035]

Only just read this now, been moving all weekend.

My lock is at my folks place for the moment, will try to remember to get that measurement for you next time I'm over there

-Indy

Don't worry about it mate, the damn thing should be here by tomorrow so I can get cracking with it then. Thanks anyway. Hope the moving went well...

[Indiana_Jones]

Don't worry about it mate, the damn thing should be here by tomorrow so I can get cracking with it then. Thanks anyway. Hope the moving went well...

It went ok. Tired though.

Must remember to ring the cop shop tomorrow regarding my new addy

-Indy

[Drunken Monkey]

Hey Indy,

I went in last time but there is actually an online form you can use:
http://www.police.govt.nz/faq/items/15278

A.

[Indiana_Jones]

Hey Indy,

I went in last time but there is actually an online form you can use:
http://www.police.govt.nz/faq/items/15278

A.

cheers mate, now that i think about it, i think i did do it online last time, can't remember 100% now.

I prefer to call, guess i'm old fashioned lol

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

Yesterday I took the rifle over to my range to try her out.

Set the sights for 100 yards and squared up on an estate agents sign at the base of the cliff.

Pulled the trigger and shit myself. The steel butt plate slammed into my shoulder, even though I was holding it tightly in. The rifle leaped a little but the recoil was something fierce.

Massive cloud of skoke drifting accross the firing point.

Settled down and fired another 4 shots. Shoulder aching by now. Took a breather. Looked down the spotting scope. No sign of any hits on the target. Another 5 shots, no holes apparent on the target. Walked to the target and there were 4 holes, 2 of which were perfect keyholes.

Back to the firing point and had someone stand behind me spotting for fall of shot. Took another 10 shots and realised that it was shooting low.

Adjusted the sights in incriments and finally when shooting at a 30 cm square target using a 6 o'clock hold it was hitting at 4 o'clock about 3 inches low. If I had not used the 6 o'clock hold it would have been on target. The setting on my sights to hit the target at the base of the cliff, on my range, 200 yards.

So it looks like my range is more like 175 -180 metres not the 100-125 I first guessed at.

10 more shots and all of them into a 30cm square target at 200 yards. This is accurate for a BP rifle. 1 MOA approx.

Next the hard shot.

Tin cans at 200 yards. Took 3 shots but did that can jump. 535 gns of soft lead hitting at 1400 fps is a lot of energy. Not a lot left of the can afterwards.

So after 50 rounds of 45-70 I called it a day.

My conclusions for the day.

Old rifles in good condition are accurate.

I need to play around with the load so as to reduce the felt recoil and possibly stopp some rounds keyholing.

I love 45-70

I love black powder.

I cant wait to try this rifle over 500 yards plus.

My shoulder bloody hurts, but it was worth it.

Chris

[Wolf]

sounds like a great day, Chris. What does it mean when the rounds keyhole like that?

[jono035]

Sounds like a pretty good result and a good quantity of smoke and noise!

535 grain projectile at 1400fps works out at 3kJ which is around about .308 energy isn't it? The .308 bullets weigh about 1/4 as much though, of course!

Any further plans on using that little valley around the corner?

[Mr Merde]

sounds like a great day, Chris. What does it mean when the rounds keyhole like that?

Could be too much powder upsetting the bullet, could be the base of the bullet was knicked so the propellant gases leaked via a point and upset the bullet in the barrel. Too much lube, to heavy a compression of the bp, etc.

As you can see there are a lot of variables. I am going to have to play around with the loading of the round to see which one or ones will correct this.

I know that the cadet version of the rifle (I have the cadet) had the sights registered for the carbine load which was a 405 gn projectile over 55 gns of ffg bp. I loaded mine with the rifle load of a 500 gn + projectile over 64 gns of ffg.

What I will do first is drop the powder down to about 50-55 gns and check what sort of compression I get with that load and bullet. If needs be I will have to get another mould to throw a 405 gn head.

I need to do some prep on the cases. ie expand the flash hole to .9 mm, this allows more flame from the primer to act upon more powder.

I'll work on it till the bullets are making nice neat holes on the target then start moving out to 3, 4 , 5, 6, 7 and 800 yards.

These BP rifles can be temperamental and it is a matter of patiently experimenting to find the right load for each distance.

Most of the fun.

Chris

[jono035]

Could be too much powder upsetting the bullet, could be the base of the bullet was knicked so the propellant gases leaked via a point and upset the bullet in the barrel. Too much lube, to heavy a compression of the bp, etc.

Could it be anything to do with the bullet spin? I've heard people talking about keyholing issues with bullets that didn't get enough spin due to either being too slow out of the barrel. With cast lead I think there were also issues with combinations of shallow rifling, soft lead, undersized and heavy bullets that could result in the outside of the bullet being stripped away rather than spinning up the bullet. This could be more to do with modern barrels designed for jacketed bullets being used with cast lead though, I don't have any idea myself.

[Mr Merde]

Could it be anything to do with the bullet spin? I've heard people talking about keyholing issues with bullets that didn't get enough spin due to either being too slow out of the barrel. With cast lead I think there were also issues with combinations of shallow rifling, soft lead, undersized and heavy bullets that could result in the outside of the bullet being stripped away rather than spinning up the bullet. This could be more to do with modern barrels designed for jacketed bullets being used with cast lead though, I don't have any idea myself.

Lead should be cast with tin to the ratio of about 20:1 lead\tin
The tin helps it make nice crisp casts from the mould and the softness of the lead allows the bullet to upset to fill the grooves.

I think it is going to be more to do with powder and bullet weight.

It only has a 29 1/2 inch barrel.

As said it means i am going to have to do a lot of experimentation to find the ideal round.

The cadet has ther same number of grooves and lands with the same twist as the full length rifle, and that will stabilise a 500 gn bullet. So I dont think it is the bullet's weight. The mould I have throws a bore riding bullet, it may be this. I need to get some friends with different 45-70 moulds to cast me 20 odd projectiles each so that I can test fire them.

After 50 roundsa of this you know you have been shooting.

Need to build a set of shooting sticks to rest the barrel on. eliminate as much human error as possible.

[Wolf]

Sounds like a lot of fun, experimenting with different loads and projectiles.

Keep us up to date with what you've found.

[jono035]

Went and collected the rest of the reloading gear today and then spent the morning bolting it down to the bench.

Had a bit of a play with the powder measure... Testing it at 3.4 grains it was consistently throwing 3.4-3.5 9 times out of 10 with 1 that was 3.7... Looks good providing I'm more careful if I'm loading up to max loads, but I'm not really fussed about getting the biggest bang possible.

Got all the dies set correctly and after a bit of faffing about to try get a correct over-all length for the truncated cone bullets that I bought I loaded up a box of ammo.

Min load was 3.2 grains of AP70, max was 4.2 so I started at the minimum and loaded 10 rounds each in 0.2 grain steps up until I got to the max (which I threw at 4.0 and then manually added powder to 4.2).

Took the bike out to the range a couple of hours ago and roared through them all.

The 3.2 and 3.4 grain loads had virtually no recoil, produced a lot of smoke and barely ejected the (very sooty) cases. The 3.6 and 3.8 were ok but the 4.0 and 4.2s were more like the factory loads I'd been firing. I didn't see any pressure signs at 4.2 grains but then again I've only read about them so not 100% I could spot them anyway.

Going to clean the barrel after dinner and see how much work it takes to get shiny as it looks a little bit dark at the moment, hopefully not too much work...

All in all a very enjoyable experience, probably took me about 3 hours to get things set and to load 60 rounds (with another 40 sized and primed).

Edit: Just wandered out to the shed and put together 200 more rounds, took about 3 hours.

[JDK]

Jono035
whats that in ?? i used to use AP70 in my 45 colts found the same thing sooty cases with lighter loads went to AP 50 and cleaned them up a bit
now useing trailboss or BP found the trail boss a tad snappy but cleaner burning ..
Mr Merde
good to hear ya got the 45/70 going i have a few 535gr's to load up for my rolling block the ones i tryed worked OK just need to get my good eyes on for getting more distance (HAHA no not from that for the reson for going blind ) have to check up where my blacks gone too come to think of it found some ffG goex works a tad better than the chinaman stuff ..
catch ya
JDK

[The Pastor]

Hmm, fist size groups at 175 to 180m sounds alot better that fist sized groups at 100m :P

[jono035]

Jono035
whats that in ?? i used to use AP70 in my 45 colts found the same thing sooty cases with lighter loads went to AP 50 and cleaned them up a bit
now useing trailboss or BP found the trail boss a tad snappy but cleaner burning ..

Ah yeah, how is the trail boss a 'tad snappy'?

I'm shooting these through a 9mm Taurus (Beretta 92 copy). The cases were coming out clean with the higher loadings that I tried but there was still a hell of a lot of smoke in the air after firing.

Edit: This is the first time that I've fired cast bullets though, do you get a bit of smoke from burning lube or anything? Not sure what lube the guy has used but it smells like beeswax...

[Mr Merde]

.........Mr Merde
good to hear ya got the 45/70 going i have a few 535gr's to load up for my rolling block the ones i tryed worked OK just need to get my good eyes on for getting more distance (HAHA no not from that for the reson for going blind ) have to check up where my blacks gone too come to think of it found some ffG goex works a tad better than the chinaman stuff ..
catch ya
JDK

Using chinese stuff at the moment. Very little burn down the case (about 1/4") also using a 535 gn bullet. Too much bp (64 gns) no protection between powder and base of b ullet. The latter may be why it is wobbling in flight. Needs that piece of card.

Swiss 1 1/2 is supposed to be the best powder but at $125 a kg its expensive.


Know what you mean about the eyes. Having trouble lining the foresight up in the rear sight.

If I wear my reading glasses I can see the rear sight but not the foresight. Without them I can make out the foresight but cant see if it is aligned properly in the rear, I can see the target as the blur it should be.

29 1/2 inch barrel

Its a bugger going old.

[sAsLEX]

Google earth puts the range at about 110m......

[Mr Merde]

Google earth puts the range at about 110m......

Must be the rainbow trajectory that does it then

[JDK]

the trailboss is a quick burning powder so it's more of a snap Vs a push of slower powders
ment to be good on cast tho don't know if it would work in a 9mm tho
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=37

but seems due to the bulk of trailboss ya cant get eneff in to a 9mm case to make it play the game ..
..........
getting some wads in from the USA for my 45/70 1/16 .460 veg fiber wads ment to be better than aunt dollys old peg cardbord should have them in NZ in a few days i'll let ya know if they are any use ..


catch ya
JDK

[The Pastor]

CHIRS, HERES THE NUMBERS BEHIND YOUR 45-70 RECOIL

http://www.kickinbak.com/posts/Bullet_chart_big_bore.pdf

[jono035]

CHIRS, HERES THE NUMBERS BEHIND YOUR 45-70 RECOIL

http://www.kickinbak.com/posts/Bullet_chart_big_bore.pdf

A 500 grain bullet at 1400 fps is about 3kJ from my figuring, same energy as the 2nd .45/70 load there.

[ManDownUnder]

getting some wads in from the USA for my 45/70 1/16 .460 veg fiber wads ment to be better than aunt dollys old peg cardbord should have them in NZ in a few days i'll let ya know if they are any use ..


catch ya
JDK

Who are you getting the wads through? Always on the lookout for exports willing to ship reloading components.
Especially Hornady 27302 projectiles.

Rifle LOVES them. Goats don't..!

[jono035]

Who are you getting the wads through? Always on the lookout for exports willing to ship reloading components.
Especially Hornady 27302 projectiles.

Rifle LOVES them. Goats don't..!

If you end up ordering anything let me know, plated copper bullets from the states are cheaper with shipping than cast lead over here, hell of a lot less cleaning up to do :p

[Leyton]

Check this out :P....................
:doh:

[JDK]

Hi ya's
Wads coming from an outfit that makes wads mainly for shotguns over shot cards fiber wads etc etc etc also do wads for rifles mainly the likes of 45/70 also in 38's 44 mag 45 colts etc etc eather to take air gap out of Bp loads or to stop the gases burning the base of cast bullets ..

i also tryed to get some brass out of the USA hells bells it took a lot of emails i think at least 6 outfits i tryed all being dealers like midway etc non of them were keen due to the export thing UK dealer could not xeport them eather due to contract with brass maker regarding exporting in to an area with a dealer/impoerter already in the country even tho that importer would not bring the brass in .
what happening in the USA as far as ammo being brought up in bulk most places don't have any stock to sell i looked at cheeper than dirt for some 45/70 cases and all sold out same with most other dealers in the USA ..
yea the prices are kinda shocking i seen primers in the USA under 1/2 what we pay here (converted in to kiwi dollars) same with powders etc etc etc mind you some other things were not far off the same guess shipping etc add's a lot to it
like the wads 171 dolars US worth of product 106 dollars US post
even ya 270 bullets about 70-80 bucks per 100 in NZ converted US price 38 bucks now ya got a hard job telling me that mark up is just shipping but there is not the amount of ammo sold so what do ya do there was a guy on trade me near queenstown i think that used to sell scopes etc etc ..

thats eneff for 2-4000 black powder shot gun 1000 45/70 and 4000 45Lc that sounds a lot but with training club days and matchs ya soon eat a lot of ammo

[Mr Merde]

US run on guns, ammo

New 6:15AM Friday Sep 25, 2009
<!-- Ixt1-->

American bullet-makers are working around the clock, seven days a week, and cannot keep up with the nation's demand for ammunition.
Bullets, especially for handguns, have been scarce for months because gun enthusiasts are stocking up because they fear President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress will pass antigun legislation.
Gun sales from January to May increased 25.6 per cent on the same period last year. In the past year ammunition sales have jumped from 7 billion to 9 billion rounds.

[The Pastor]

and they wont ship the projectiles to NZ :(

[jono035]

US run on guns, ammo

New 6:15AM Friday Sep 25, 2009
<!-- Ixt1-->

American bullet-makers are working around the clock, seven days a week, and cannot keep up with the nation's demand for ammunition.
Bullets, especially for handguns, have been scarce for months because gun enthusiasts are stocking up because they fear President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress will pass antigun legislation.
Gun sales from January to May increased 25.6 per cent on the same period last year. In the past year ammunition sales have jumped from 7 billion to 9 billion rounds.

There is a notice on the Berry's website saying they have been overrun by orders from civilian reloaders and are producing at full capacity... Even then they're apparently having people who can't get hold of any stock...

I wonder what all of this will come to...


and they wont ship the projectiles to NZ :(

Ah, that's right, bad luck mate... Oh well, guess I should hope that reloaders still has stock.

[Mr Merde]

and they wont ship the projectiles to NZ :(

Probably a governmental and police conspiracy to circumvent legislation of our sport by making it impossible to actually fire a bullet.

:jerry:

[jono035]

Probably a governmental and police conspiracy to circumvent legislation of our sport by making it impossible to actually fire a bullet.

:jerry:

Even if you couldn't get loaded ammo, primers, powder or bullets any more, you could still make your own black powder, cast your own bullets, make your own lube/patches and then let rip with the flintlock though, right? :D

[Mr Merde]

Even if you couldn't get loaded ammo, primers, powder or bullets any more, you could still make your own black powder, cast your own bullets, make your own lube/patches and then let rip with the flintlock though, right? :D

See what I mean

Restriction by enforced regression.

Not much chance of a MSSA bp rifle.

[The Pastor]

reloading gear was shipped on the 17th, how long u guys reckon it'll take to get here?

[Drunken Monkey]

and they wont ship the projectiles to NZ :(

Pffft, that's post 9-11 paranoia for ya. I couldn't even get them to ship me some NFL T-shirts, I had to UPS them to my mate's sister and get him to pick them up when he popped over for a visit. Another shirt I tried to order, they wouldn't send via US post, only express freight (US$90 for a US$19 shirt!?) - sorry, you can keep it!!!! Send Ammo? You're dreaming.

(Yet strangely one company did supply me an ASP batton...go figure?!!?)


reloading gear was shipped on the 17th, how long u guys reckon it'll take to get here?

My colleague got a softball bat delivered from L.A. in less than 20 hours once...Think it cost US$140 in freight though, that was like 10 years ago too...

[Mr Merde]

reloading gear was shipped on the 17th, how long u guys reckon it'll take to get here?

Air or sea?

By sea up to 3 months
By air up to 1 month

[The Pastor]

air or sea?

By sea up to 3 months
by air up to 1 month
it better be air for the $100 us it cost!

[jono035]

it better be air for the $100 us it cost!

Any idea who they sent it with? It can get pretty pricey for heavy freight even by surface...

[ManDownUnder]

it better be air for the $100 us it cost!

Getting stuff out of the US by air in non peak times (i.e. NOT Christmas) takes around 7 to 10 working days

Done it lots... it's all good.

[Road Warrior]

US run on guns, ammo

New 6:15AM Friday Sep 25, 2009
American bullet-makers are working around the clock, seven days a week, and cannot keep up with the nation's demand for ammunition.
Bullets, especially for handguns, have been scarce for months because gun enthusiasts are stocking up because they fear President Barack Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress will pass antigun legislation.
Gun sales from January to May increased 25.6 per cent on the same period last year. In the past year ammunition sales have jumped from 7 billion to 9 billion rounds.

Its hard to believe but its true. Only now is it starting to let up with a few primers and brass starting to show up in some stores. I didn't believe it for a long time but I finally got "concerned" and stocked up a little reserve..just in case.
I will check into what can be shipped down under..but I would think brass would be fine??
Gary

[scumdog]

Getting stuff out of the US by air in non peak times (i.e. NOT Christmas) takes around 7 to 10 working days

Done it lots... it's all good.

Even my heavy-as Thunderbird brake-drums only took 10 days, the cost?
Well that's another story...:shutup:

[Road Warrior]

Well talked to a friend who is a licensed firearms import/exporter. Very confusing to say the least..but if you stay under 300 pieces anyone can ship brass.
Powder, primers,and bullets take a license to ship. There is a "fee" for this...$250 US. Now you can put as many firearms and components in the order as you want..but it is still $250 "fee"...plus shipping of course :spanking:
Gary

[JDK]

Be intresting to see what happens to an order i have for 500 bits of brass 2 boxes maybe ????????
at 250 USD ya may as well fill a huge box up i did read tho under 100 USD not a prob seems to be diffrent rules
one place i looked at ya had to order 2500 USD worth of brass a 1000 RP 45/70 was 500 bucks so 5000 45/70 or close to 7000 .270 cases ..

guess i'll have to play the waiting game to see what happens with my brass

[Road Warrior]

The difference you are seeing is where..or who..your are ordering from on your end. In order to "spread the pain" on your end shops are no doubt trying to get as much in one order as possible. :shifty:
Another thing is the state department rules had a major change last fall. So things have changed quite a bit from the past
Gary

[JDK]

In which way Gary ?? harder rules or just clearer so every one understands them better ..
the brass i'm talking about i ordered from the USA myself as no dealer here wanted to bring them in even then i had a power of email's to try and find someone who would be intrested in selling to NZ
most gave a flat no way one out fit said not a prob how many ya want
catch ya
JDK

[Road Warrior]

In which way Gary ?? harder rules or just clearer so every one understands them better ..
Definitely not clearer :laugh: The biggest changes had to do with the licensing end of things. All the end customer knows is it costs more <_<
Good luck on the brass.
Gary

[ManDownUnder]

junkmanjoe's .22 and my little man got blooded tonight!

The neighbour rang, something about an excessive rabbit population in her garden. so we took the .22... and dozen subsonic rounds, a spotlight and went for a walk.

Little bugger's got good eyes... he was spotting them as quick as I was and we found one hunkered down in the grass a nice distance from a fence line... so spotlight on it, gun resting nicely against a strainer post a bit of effort to cock the gun and chamber a round... but I think the biggest thing against him was the nerves....

3rd shot and we got the meat report... a gut shot. Rabbit was very unhappy and started dancing around a bit and Ruben was pretty concerned for it's wellbeing... so a coup de grace was administered and we went to check things out.

Very proud of him, very respectful of the animal, remorseful and yet pleased with himself for the success of the hunt.

Just bloody good.

... so imagine my lack of surprise (not) when he wanted to head out again tomorrow night...!

[jono035]

Sounds good! There'll be no stopping him now :D

[Mr Merde]

.....Ruben was pretty concerned for it's wellbeing... so a coup de grace was administered and we went to check things out.

Very proud of him, very respectful of the animal, remorseful and yet pleased with himself for the success of the hunt.

Just bloody good.

... so imagine my lack of surprise (not) when he wanted to head out again tomorrow night...!

Another hunter is born.

With concern like that from one as young I am encouraged as to the future of our sport.

Tell him from me that I am proud of the lad.
'
Chris

[ManDownUnder]

Another hunter is born.

With concern like that from one as young I am encouraged as to the future of our sport.

Tell him from me that I am proud of the lad.
'
Chris

Passed on mate. Not sure if I told you but one of his prized possessions is a photo of you and he standing there... with him holding that little .22 last time we came out to yours.

[Dean]

Anyone got any .177 pellets they can give, preferably someone on the north shore. I will try to wrangle some money together, I will use the magic word - Please.

[Indiana_Jones]

Anyone got any .177 pellets they can give, preferably someone on the north shore. I will try to wrangle some money together, I will use the magic word - Please.

PM sent.

-Indy

[Dean]

Thankyou to everyone for their offers and pm's, it is all getting sorted now. You guys are a nice helpfull community I tells ya :).

[The Pastor]

anrt they like $8 for 500?

[jono035]

anrt they like $8 for 500?

And don't even require a firearms license :D (yet...)

[Mr Merde]

Anyone interested in a Brocock air pistol.

I can get my hands on 4 of them and the adapter to charge them from a dive bottle

For anyone who doesnt know of them they hold the pellet in a cartridge case that is itself charged with air, rahter than having the air in a reservoir. this means they load like a pistol that uses gunpowder cartridges.

http://www.brocock.co.uk/

http://www.topham.org.uk/brocock/brocockpistols.htm

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/air-cartridge-web.jpg

[sAsLEX]

Anyone interested in a Brocock air pistol.

I can get my hands on 4 of them and the adapter to charge them from a dive bottle

For anyone who doesnt know of them they hold the pellet in a cartridge case that is itself charged with air, rahter than having the air in a reservoir. this means they load like a pistol that uses gunpowder cartridges.

http://www.brocock.co.uk/

http://www.topham.org.uk/brocock/brocockpistols.htm

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/images/air-cartridge-web.jpg

My dad would be, any indication on price?

Also websites aren't working for me for some reason.....

[wbks]

Woa, that's nice. I didn't think there were any variations on air rifles/pistols. Bet they're worth a bit?

[Mr Merde]

My dad would be, any indication on price?

Also websites aren't working for me for some reason.....

My mate in the Uk has 4 of them. Thay are on his certificate and by law over there they cant be sold on in the country. They are therefore clogging up his spaces on his licence that he can use for more rifles.

Not sur of the prices. I'll ask him.

I know he has a copy of an 1851 Colt Navy, and a copy of the Peacemaker Model P, he also has two modern styled swing out cyliunder versions.

[JDK]

look nice air pistols i'm guessing kinda pricey the 1851 navy looks cool be a nice gun fer a wee tiny buckaroo
JDK

[Swoop]

September 25, 2009: As South Korea upgraded its armed forces over the last two decades, it has had to dispose of a lot of old equipment. But then it discovered that it had put into storage 108,000 World War II era rifles it had received from the United States during the 1950s. Some of these M-1 Garand rifles (the first semiautomatic rifle to enter wide service in any army) and M-1 Carbines (which fire a pistol class 7.62mm round) had only been used occasionally by reservists, and even these troops have since been armed with more modern weapons. In the normal course of events, these old rifles would be melted down. Fortunately, someone in the South Korean Defense Ministry realized that M-1s sell for over a thousand dollars each on the collectors market. So those 86,000 M-1 are probably worth over $100 million (or half that, if they are all dropped on the market at once). The 22,000 M1 Carbines, which used to be sold cheap, have recently been going for nearly as much as the Garands. For once, the South Koreans will be able to sell a used weapon at a huge profit (since they received them for free, and have only had to pay for storage and maintenance since then).

[Mr Merde]

September 25, 2009: As South Korea upgraded its armed forces over the last two decades, it has had to dispose of a lot of old equipment. But then it discovered that it had put into storage 108,000 World War II era rifles it had received from the United States during the 1950s. Some of these M-1 Garand rifles (the first semiautomatic rifle to enter wide service in any army) and M-1 Carbines (which fire a pistol class 7.62mm round) had only been used occasionally by reservists, and even these troops have since been armed with more modern weapons. In the normal course of events, these old rifles would be melted down. Fortunately, someone in the South Korean Defense Ministry realized that M-1s sell for over a thousand dollars each on the collectors market. So those 86,000 M-1 are probably worth over $100 million (or half that, if they are all dropped on the market at once). The 22,000 M1 Carbines, which used to be sold cheap, have recently been going for nearly as much as the Garands. For once, the South Koreans will be able to sell a used weapon at a huge profit (since they received them for free, and have only had to pay for storage and maintenance since then).

The United Nations will probably hit them withthe "non politeration of firearms" ruling they enacted. The same one that the police are using to destroy their bolt action Remington rifles, rather than sell them to the public.

[Swoop]

The same one that the police are using to destroy their bolt action Remington rifles, rather than sell them to the public.

No. That was a "safety issue"...
"A safety failed on a remington bolt action rifle" so they were condemned to scrap, as the risk of having rifles in public hands would have been serious.

TRUTH: A police idiot didn't put the safety ON and then pulled the fucking trigger. Gun go BANG!.
All the testing done on the safety came up with "it's fine". Mr Remington said "it's fine"...
But it was a convenient excuse to get the Bushmasters.

[The Pastor]

What do you guys think the most common projectile is in NZ? .308?

[jono035]

Mmmmm getting a Garand would be sweet, would have to be E-cat though...

Just called Fletcher EasySteel about some prices for Bisalloy 500, and some 4140/4340 round bar stock to machine into a mortar tube.

Beer can mortar using 120mm mild steel round bar would be about 250mm long from the plans I've seen other people use. In this size 4140 costs $600/m and 4340 costs $1000/m so that is $150 or $250 for the steel stock that will go straight into a lathe, ready to be machined. I checked with my old man and he has a lathe that has 130mm of bed clearance and 450mm end to end, so should fit that piece easily enough.

For hanging targets the Bisalloy 500 in 20mm thickness is around $6.20 per kg, so assuming square targets (or round targets cut from square) then a 200mm x 200mm target would weigh 6kg and cost $40. They said they're happy to cut it to 100mm x 100mm sizes, not sure what the cutting cost is or how much of a piece you'd have to buy would be though. Doesn't sound too bad at all!