The firearm thread [Archive] - Page 8

Mr Merde

29th September 2008, 23:05

You feel you need any more firepower than that to take out a couple of pieces of paper? :devil2:

No but I enjoy shooting all different calibers.

Everything from .22 all the way through the range to .44 mag.

Each has their own set of characteristics that need to be understood and trained for and to me that is the fun.

Used to shoot a Thompson Contender with a 12 inch barrel chambered for 7 mm TCU (a .223 case blown out to 7mm, fireformed and packed with as much hogdon 332 powder as the case can hold)

Recoil was something fierce but once understood it was a tack driver at 300 yards.

Also used to shoot a .357 S & W 686. 180 gn projectile over 15 grains of N110. Again another fierce round but it worked for what itr was intended. Groups at 100 yards.

.38spl in the same revolver with 2 grains of bullseye when I was shooting UIT style precision.

Enough

I see your point but a restriction limits you in your expolration of all shooting disciplines.

Chris

Wolf

30th September 2008, 07:27

No but I enjoy shooting all different calibers.

Everything from .22 all the way through the range to .44 mag.

Each has their own set of characteristics that need to be understood and trained for and to me that is the fun.

Used to shoot a Thompson Contender with a 12 inch barrel chambered for 7 mm TCU (a .223 case blown out to 7mm, fireformed and packed with as much hogdon 332 powder as the case can hold)

Recoil was something fierce but once understood it was a tack driver at 300 yards.

Also used to shoot a .357 S & W 686. 180 gn projectile over 15 grains of N110. Again another fierce round but it worked for what itr was intended. Groups at 100 yards.

.38spl in the same revolver with 2 grains of bullseye when I was shooting UIT style precision.

Enough

I see your point but a restriction limits you in your expolration of all shooting disciplines.

Chris
I was being cheeky, y'nong! I well understand the merits of being able to practise with a variety of calibres and the differences between them.

Mr Merde

30th September 2008, 08:34

I was being cheeky, y'nong! I well understand the merits of being able to practise with a variety of calibres and the differences between them.

Bit thin skinned lately.

y'nong , havent heard that in quite a while and havent been called that for a very long time.

Chris

Wolf

30th September 2008, 08:58

y'nong , havent heard that in quite a while and havent been called that for a very long time.
Said with utmost respect and tongue firmly in cheek.

Would love to have the time, resources and money to get to know the characteristics of a range of firearms comparable with what you have experience of but I have enough of an effort juggling stuff as it is.

I know from the diversity of rifles I've fired over the years (nowhere near as diverse as you have, I might add) that there're quirks and foibles with all and it would be kinda cool to extend that out to pistols (my experience so far having been a number of different air pistols, a few shots with a .22lr target pistol and one shot with a .357) but that'd meen magically pulling more time out of thin air in order to do it properly.

My current priorities limit me in my "exploration of all shooting disciplines". I still have a firearm that I've never once put a round through as I just haven't gotten 'round to getting out somewhere to give it a go.

Mr Merde

30th September 2008, 09:12

Said with utmost respect and tongue firmly in cheek.

Would love to have the time, resources and money to get to know the characteristics of a range of firearms comparable with what you have experience of but I have enough of an effort juggling stuff as it is.

I know from the diversity of rifles I've fired over the years (nowhere near as diverse as you have, I might add) that there're quirks and foibles with all and it would be kinda cool to extend that out to pistols (my experience so far having been a number of different air pistols, a few shots with a .22lr target pistol and one shot with a .357) but that'd meen magically pulling more time out of thin air in order to do it properly.

My current priorities limit me in my "exploration of all shooting disciplines". I still have a firearm that I've never once put a round through as I just haven't gotten 'round to getting out somewhere to give it a go.

You should pop up to my place sometime. I'm in the area known to the electorial roll as North Waikato. Onewhero, nr Port Waikato.

Only an hour from Hamilton.

Bring "whatever" you wish to shoot and have some fun.

To you others who came.

I am going to make some target holders rather than thos pieces of boards.

I have an idea, just need to get the material.

Her indoors wants me to finisdh the house a bit more as we're about 2 weeks behind schedule on the redecorating.

Wolf

30th September 2008, 09:46

You should pop up to my place sometime. I'm in the area known to the electorial roll as North Waikato. Onewhero, nr Port Waikato.

Only an hour from Hamilton.

Bring "whatever" you wish to shoot and have some fun.
I'd love to, have to figure out the logistics of getting the "whatever" there - the only transport I have is the rusty XT, errr, trusty XT, so I'd have to get inventive for carrying options.

Mr Merde

30th September 2008, 09:50

I'd love to, have to figure out the logistics of getting the "whatever" there - the only transport I have is the rusty XT, errr, trusty XT, so I'd have to get inventive for carrying options.

On my GS 1200 I have carried 1 lever action rifle, 1 shotgun, 2 .44 pistols, ammunition for these firearms, associated shooting gear plus costume for CAS events. Just took a litlle bit of planning and some strong bungee cords

Wolf

30th September 2008, 10:29

On my GS 1200 I have carried 1 lever action rifle, 1 shotgun, 2 .44 pistols, ammunition for these firearms, associated shooting gear plus costume for CAS events. Just took a litlle bit of planning and some strong bungee cords
And the pack rack from Hell! :D

What I need is a suitable carry case that will accomodate the rifles yet not extend more than 500mm either side of the centreline of the bike as per MOT regulations. "Do-able" - just got to do it.

Curious_AJ

30th September 2008, 12:30

Auckland is running out of pistol clubs. Over the shore there is the navy Club, Dome Valley a bit further north and the next would be Dargaville. There are clubs further north.

South there is Hamilton , Waiuku, Fox road.

Chris

Nice to see your interest picking up

thanks, much appreciated ^_^

Indiana_Jones

2nd October 2008, 16:16

Air rifles are good to keep up practice if one lives in the burbs!

-Indy

Wolf

2nd October 2008, 18:27

Air rifles are good to keep up practice if one lives in the burbs!

-Indy
Providing you've got room to set up a range and practise indoors. Wander out into the yard with something gun-shaped and the up-tight metrosexuals start shitting their pants.

Indiana_Jones

2nd October 2008, 19:20

Providing you've got room to set up a range and practise indoors. Wander out into the yard with something gun-shaped and the up-tight metrosexuals start shitting their pants.

using the backyard, no one has said anything yet, I'm sure they're smart enough to realize it's not a real gun.....Well one hopes lol

-Indy

Wolf

2nd October 2008, 19:25

I'm used to places where the silly old bitch down the road thought we were letting off firearms just because there was a large bang from our yard. (I was burning out the carbon build-up in the RD350's pipes with meths and a hot mix of meths and air made a loud noise - and about a foot-and-a-half flame out each end...)

doc

2nd October 2008, 19:43

Her indoors wants me to finisdh the house a bit more as we're about 2 weeks behind schedule on the redecorating.

Ferk thats something to be proud of. I'm couple of weeks behind from years ago. So many possums n rabbits now that they have disbanded the "Rabbit Boards" :woohoo:

Indiana_Jones

3rd October 2008, 15:57

From Gun Control Australia,

"Our logic is that shooters are the most ill-disciplined group… That’s what attracts them to guns. It’s a state of mind… They are usually poorly educated, they have never had success at school and were never very good at sport… Guns to them represent something they have never been able to achieve"

:laugh::laugh::laugh:.....tards.

:2guns:

-Indy

Swoop

4th October 2008, 09:49

Finally, an honest gun control advertisment!

http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2008/08/more-gun-control-is-good.html

The Pastor

4th October 2008, 19:23

Someones got a new rifle :D

sAsLEX

4th October 2008, 21:44

Someones got a new rifle :D

Do we need to head down to the range again tomorrow? A little earlier to pick up some ammo and get some sunshine for longer.........

The Pastor

4th October 2008, 23:13

we will have to go out again soon, but not today, today is ride day.

Indiana_Jones

4th October 2008, 23:13

As Scott just said, I got a new gun lol. grabbed me a second hand Marlin 30-30 lever action

-Indy

The Pastor

4th October 2008, 23:22

I wanna get a new one, but will see how indys shoots first

Curious_AJ

5th October 2008, 10:15

i hope it doesn't blow up....

Indiana_Jones

5th October 2008, 17:53

i hope it doesn't blow up....

I'm still alive!

Thanks alot Chris for letting us pop over. Thanks so much for the sight, will make sure I use it!

-Indy

Mr Merde

6th October 2008, 08:59

I'm still alive!

Thanks alot Chris for letting us pop over. Thanks so much for the sight, will make sure I use it!

-Indy

More than welcome to the sight. As stated before you are welcome anytime to shoot just a quick call to make sure I am in and head on down.

Loved taking the piss out of Mosin Nagants yesterday. Cheered my mate harry up also.

Chris

Wolf

6th October 2008, 09:19

Loved taking the piss out of Mosin Nagants yesterday.
Do tell - this former M-N owner wants to know.

Mr Merde

6th October 2008, 09:26

Do tell - this former M-N owner wants to know.

Indy has a very nice example or this marque with a side pounted low power scope.

After two sessions at my place now he has just started to get the projectiles printing on paper.

Although I must admit that saslex did inform me that Indy did manage to get a shot on a fist size clump of sandstone at 100 metres.

Indy is claiming that one as an aimed and calculated shot.

Spent the after shooting cuppa tea running down M-N as mass produced pieces of military hardware.

Total piss take as it is an impressive rifle with a very impressive baek.

Chris

Wolf

6th October 2008, 09:38

Indy has a very nice example or this marque with a side pounted low power scope.

After two sessions at my place now he has just started to get the projectiles printing on paper.

Although I must admit that saslex did inform me that Indy did manage to get a shot on a fist size clump of sandstone at 100 metres.

Indy is claiming that one as an aimed and calculated shot.

Spent the after shooting cuppa tea running down M-N as mass produced pieces of military hardware.

Total piss take as it is an impressive rifle with a very impressive baek.

Chris
Heh. The one I had was not bad. Not brilliant and certainly not one that they selected for use as a sniper rifle (apparently they'd test them and the pick of the bunch were decked out as sniper rifles) but definitely a nice, albeit long and heavy (I had the rifle, not the carbine), specimen.

Mr Merde

6th October 2008, 12:38

OK once again I hope to start another topic in this thread.

Has anyone here had any experience with engraving?

It has been a subject that has facinated me since I first started shooting.

To me the finish on a firearm is a work of art.

Whether it is there for complete functionality or as a means of personaising them to yourself.

I have a mate staying with me at the moment who has offerred to copy all his VHS instructional lectures on the subjects of stockmaking and engraving, to a DVD format. He has also offered me all his engraving tools that he has at his home ( unused).

It is very exciting as said earlier it is something I have been looking into for a while now.

The kit is all hand chasing equipment which again I find floats my boat. I know you can get power tools that do this work but I find a lot of satisfaction doing things the old fashioned way.

Harry ( my mate) was impressed by my attempts at stock making and also with the quality of the finish I have applied to the stock. It was on this that he offered me the instructional tapes and the tools.

We also had a discussion as to how I am going to finish my Remington. We think that rather than go the peeing on the barrel route that I should get in some Laurel Mountain browning and degreasing fluid from the US as this is quick and easy to use and in his expoerience gives a good finish.

Once I learn the engraving I am going to work on the barrel of this rifle.

I fancy marking out the flats of the otagonal barrel with a thin line of gold inlay, then some sort of decoration back towards the receiver.

I'm going to contemplate my navel with regards to this andf earmark it for a future development.

Chris

Indiana_Jones

6th October 2008, 16:46

Indy has a very nice example or this marque with a side pounted low power scope.

After two sessions at my place now he has just started to get the projectiles printing on paper.

Although I must admit that saslex did inform me that Indy did manage to get a shot on a fist size clump of sandstone at 100 metres.

Indy is claiming that one as an aimed and calculated shot.

It's true!

I can't believe I hit it lol, but I donno if it can be repeated lol

Heh. The one I had was not bad. Not brilliant and certainly not one that they selected for use as a sniper rifle (apparently they'd test them and the pick of the bunch were decked out as sniper rifles) but definitely a nice, albeit long and heavy (I had the rifle, not the carbine), specimen.

Same here mate, mine just has a copy side mount and scope. Real snipers got for like US$1000+ :gob:

More than welcome to the sight. As stated before you are welcome anytime to shoot just a quick call to make sure I am in and head on down.

Loved taking the piss out of Mosin Nagants yesterday. Cheered my mate harry up also.

Chris

lol I love Nagants =D

-Indy

Indiana_Jones

6th October 2008, 16:52

Oh yea, here's a picture of the Marlin

-Indy

Indiana_Jones

6th October 2008, 17:37

Anyone here into duck shooting?

I might be pretty keen to give it a go next season.

Do the bloody protesters get in the way much?

-Indy

The Pastor

6th October 2008, 19:30

Anyone here into duck shooting?

I might be pretty keen to give it a go next season.

Do the bloody protesters get in the way much?

-Indy
we can go to that pond out side the stirks!

Wolf

6th October 2008, 22:02

Been doing a bit of thinking (yes, it does hurt) and come to the conclusion (largely based on a quick comparison of ammo prices) that, enamoured though I may be of the .243Win's flat trajectory and high velocity, the next rifle I get will probably be a .308.

The main reason being the old pro-9mm-pistol argument: even among the commercial brands, there is a plethora of cheap ammo to facilitate practising (and, as with the venerable 9mm, I dare say if I looked around I could probably locate military surplus ammo even cheaper).

The cheapest .243 ammo I located on the web was $29 per box of 20 - compared with (at the same place) $16 per box of 20 .308 - OK, doubtless it's crap ammo at that price (I've certainly never heard of the brand) but at $160 to put a couple of hundred rounds up the spout compared with $290 for the same amount of "cheap" .243, practice time just got a lot cheaper. (Hell, for $288, I could buy 360 rounds of the cheap 'n' crappy .308 ammo and really get some practice in, and that's assuming I don't find a supply of old military FMJ for $50 the hundred or whatever...)

I love .243, but fuck it costs a lot!

So the question then becomes: what's a good .308 to buy?

Ideally, I would like a bolt action, around 5 shots, preferably detachable-box mag and with iron sights (so I don't have to instantly shell out for some quality optics as well).

Many of the new rifles I've seen carry a heavy price tag and none seem to have iron sights so the price of the optics is either the reason for the astronomical price tag or in addition to it, depending on the rifle.

Any suggestions for make and model? Doesn't have to be a modern rifle - I owned a Mosin-Nagant and a couple of SMLEs, FFS, I don't care if it's an antique, so long as it's reliable. (A few hours with a boiling jug, some sandpaper, linseed oil and blueing compound and the "antique" would look factory-fresh anyway...)

Indiana_Jones

6th October 2008, 22:08

How much is ammo for a 6.5MM x 55?

Get a Swedish Mauser :D

-Indy

Wolf

6th October 2008, 22:29

How much is ammo for a 6.5MM x 55?

Get a Swedish Mauser :D

-Indy
I hadn't planned on buying military surplus ammo with Charlemagne's stamp on it :devil2:

Seriously: what does the 6.5x55 shoot like compared with the .308 and .243? (I've fired both but not the 6.5)

Delerium

7th October 2008, 09:36

Recoil is between the two, shoots maybe slightly faltter than .308. Has a very high ballistic coefficient and sectional density, so it keeps on going at longer ranges and does major damage for the size of the projectile. I like 6.5x55, I also like .308. 308 is probably easier to get ammo off the shelf for.

sAsLEX

7th October 2008, 16:10

the next rifle I get will probably be a .308.

Dont buy one like mine....... not cheap and no iron sights :pinch:

And bugger me why was there no ammo shops open on sunday that we could find! Had to practise with $100 a box ammo :crazy:

Indiana_Jones

7th October 2008, 16:22

Here alot of good things about the .308 Mossberg 100 ATR

Cheap too.

http://www.guncity.co.nz/308-mossberg-atr-100-rifle-xidp151552.html

-Indy

Wolf

7th October 2008, 17:00

And bugger me why was there no ammo shops open on sunday that we could find! Had to practise with $100 a box ammo :crazy:
Ow! That's a helluvan expense for no kai in the pot!

Indiana_Jones

7th October 2008, 17:04

Ow! That's a helluvan expense for no kai in the pot!

I bet those bullets go where they're meant to unlike my $12 for 20 surplus ammo lol

-Indy

Wolf

7th October 2008, 17:07

Here alot of good things about the .308 Mossberg 100 ATR

Cheap too.
"Value-priced" is the term they used. They're sold in Wallymart in the US, going by the websites I've found.

That said, I've found Mossberg shotguns quite well made and they have a bloody good rep.

Indiana_Jones

7th October 2008, 17:13

"Value-priced" is the term they used. They're sold in Wallymart in the US, going by the websites I've found.

That said, I've found Mossberg shotguns quite well made and they have a bloody good rep.

Yep lol.

Like I said, I can't say from personal experience how well those rifles shoot, just been reading on some gun forums etc.

-Indy

Wolf

7th October 2008, 18:12

Wolf

7th October 2008, 18:49

Hmmm, just been reading up on the differences between 7.62x51NATO and .308Win cartridges and the firearms made for each.

Seems I'd be better suited getting a rifle chambered for .308Win which will accommodate the "cheap 'n' nasty" military surplus 7.62x51 ammo and commercial .308Win ammo safely rather than a rifle chambered for the 7.62x51NATO which will safely fire cheap 'n' nasty military surplus 7.62x51 ammo but may suffer from ruptured cartridges when firing the commercial .308Win ammo.

Been reading up on head spaces, chamber tolerances, brass thicknesses, pressures and such and it does give one pause to consider - especially since a mate of mine, back in those halcyon days before the putrid MSSA law, had a surplus L1A1 and a supply of modern .308 ammo - dunno if he ever fired any of the .308 with it though, I think he mainly blazed away a number of 7.62x51 FMJ rounds.

Edit: lovely explanations and diagrams here (http://www.thegunzone.com/30cal.html)and here (http://www.303british.com/id36.html).

Mr Merde

8th October 2008, 08:39

"Value-priced" is the term they used. They're sold in Wallymart in the US, going by the websites I've found.

That said, I've found Mossberg shotguns quite well made and they have a bloody good rep.

I really like the fully suppressed version they have done for the NZ market, available in .243 and .308.

Supposedly cuts the sound down to approx that of the .22 mag

Integral suppressor looks much better than tacking an extra 6-12 inches on the end of your rifle barrel.

With carefull reloading you could probably lower the sound signature down below that of the .22 mag. and keep reasonable accuracy and distance.

Chris

Mr Merde

8th October 2008, 08:42

Really like the look of the Sako 85 - way out of my price range, but bloody nice.

Mr Merde. What're your range rules regarding "ankle-biters" coming along with parents and learning the fine art of "blowin' holes in stuff"? Yea? Nay? If "Yea", how old etc?

No problems.

Jrandom bought his son, my 9 year old nephew was learning with me the other day. If they dont want to shoot I have 2 acres around the house to play in and a kids house \slide etc.

Ankle bitters today, are the shooters of tomorrow. Its my duty to encourage them.

Curious_AJ

8th October 2008, 13:21

as Mr Merde said earlier (couldnt be bothered going all the way back to quote the post) engraving is an art form.

personally I love it. That's what interested me at the gun show more than anything. I love the fine detailing and the impressive imagery that can be put onto a weapon (not just firearms mind but that's the topic at hand).

I've done a bit of wood carving/burning but never the metal side of things. It could also be something I'd be interested in doing.

Mr Merde

9th October 2008, 09:59

Here is a wonderful example of the art.

Posted here for you all to drool over

as I have been

Wolf

9th October 2008, 10:09

Here is a wonderful example of the art.

Posted here for you all to drool over

as I have been
Noice! But it'd be scared to fire it or take it anywhere lest it get damaged.

Mr Merde

9th October 2008, 10:28

Noice! But it'd be scared to fire it or take it anywhere lest it get damaged.

I would feel the same about a firearm decorated to this extent, but wouldnt hesitate using one that had been embelished to a lesser degree and to my personal taste.

Its all about making something, anything, personal to you.

Look at the number of bikes out there, especially Harleys, that have been personalised. Something I have no problem with at all.

It doesnt have to be as extreme as these examples. It could only be as much asd changing a grip or sight on a firearm. By doing so you have made that item more your own.

In my defence I must say that I absolutely love the work done by the engraver. I pick up a set of instructional videos and a set of tools this Friday night. I'll find some sheet steel to practice on and I am determined to learn at least the basics of this skill.

Just imagine holding in your hands a firearm that you have built. All specs are yours. All asthetics are to your personal tastes. The pride when others show an appreciation of what you have done.

I rant

Wolf

9th October 2008, 10:39

I rant
I understand :yes:

Mr Merde

9th October 2008, 10:53

How about these'

The theme is "Black and White Knights"

From the engraver

"The White and Black Knights
<HR style="COLOR: #000000" SIZE=1>It's been a few years since I produced a pair of vintage .45 19ll Colts for a client who was interested in the legends surrounding King Arthur and his knights. Rather than concentrate on King Arthur or any particular Knight, we decided to generalize the legends of Good and Evil by naming the project the White and Black Knights. The White Knight's theme is more whimsical while the Black Knight exhibits powerful elements of darkness.

After exploring the generalized format, I was given complete freedom to carry out the work as I saw fit. Understanding the role of colors in the project, I decided to blue (dark black/oxide blueing) the Black Knight and French Gray the White knight. I then choose ebony and ivory to compliment the grip themes.

The various themes, armour, crests and other inlaid icons were researched to fit the respective characters of each gun. Many of the inlays were multi-color metal (gold/silver/platinum). I did the ebony grips, including the sterling inlays, and asked scrim artists Sandra Brady to do the ivories. After providing her with basic sketches, she created the grips, art and scrimshaw.

Inlays were done in 24K gold, 18K pink and green gold, platinum and silver to keep the coloration consistent with the overal theme.

I especially enjoy creating "themed" engraving projects like this. Likewise, if you decide to create an engraving theme, please understand that you will probably spend at least a fourth of the project time researching and artistically developing that theme. So, I've already been asked privately several times: this was a $80,000 project, including the guns, grips, art, consultation and finishing - six months +- and lots of research, coordination and bench time"

$80,000 US and they are to be used.

scumdog

9th October 2008, 11:08

I would feel the same about a firearm decorated to this extent, but wouldnt hesitate using one that had been embelished to a lesser degree and to my personal taste.

Its all about making something, anything, personal to you.

Just imagine holding in your hands a firearm that you have built. All specs are yours. All asthetics are to your personal tastes. The pride when others show an appreciation of what you have done.

I rant

Then you'ld just LURRRVV my Sako lever-action, very personalised with fine aesthetics.

Fore-end cut back and rounded, cheek-piece shaved off (I'm left handed), checkering worn away to almost nothing, varnish removed and multi-coatings of linseed oil, butt-plate replaced with an exotic recoil-pad (s section of Cavalino tyre tread), scars to Africa on the stock including split near the pistol-grip, zilch blueing left,barrel shortened and metal sights removed.

Bought it brand new in 1973 for $236, dunno what it's worth in its present 'personalise' condition:laugh::confused:

Mr Merde

9th October 2008, 11:16

Then you'ld just LURRRVV my Sako lever-action, very personalised with fine aesthetics.

Fore-end cut back and rounded, cheek-piece shaved off (I'm left handed), checkering worn away to almost nothing, varnish removed and multi-coatings of linseed oil, butt-plate replaced with an exotic recoil-pad (s section of Cavalino tyre tread), scars to Africa on the stock including split near the pistol-grip, zilch blueing left,barrel shortened and metal sights removed.

Bought it brand new in 1973 for $236, dunno what it's worth in its present 'personalise' condition:laugh::confused:

Does it do what you want it to? Do you enjoy firing the rifle?

Is it "yours"?

Strange as it may seem I would probably love the rifle as it has done what it was designed for and all those changes are part of the character of the firearm.

For you to keep it so long means something.

Chris

scumdog

9th October 2008, 12:04

Does it do what you want it to? Do you enjoy firing the rifle?

Is it "yours"?

Strange as it may seem I would probably love the rifle as it has done what it was designed for and all those changes are part of the character of the firearm.

For you to keep it so long means something.

Chris

Can't see any reason to part with it - hell, it's brand new!!:laugh:

Shot everything you're allowed to shoot (in the South Island) except wapiti with it so I guess it has done what it was designed for..

Indiana_Jones

9th October 2008, 16:09

I loved the pistols used in "Romeo & Juliet" :2guns:

Peace! I hate the word!

<img src="http://www.imfdb.org/images/1/1c/Tybaltgun.jpg">

<img src="http://www.brockglaze.net/images/rjgun2.jpg">

-Indy

Indiana_Jones

9th October 2008, 18:05

Anyone here know how to do bluing work on guns?

Chris will know that my Marlin has some rust on her and needs some work done.

Guess this will be a great chance to learn

-Indy

Wolf

9th October 2008, 19:25

Anyone here know how to do bluing work on guns?

Chris will know that my Marlin has some rust on her and needs some work done.

Guess this will be a great chance to learn

-Indy
I wrote my method (hot blueing) a few posts back - seemed to work well for me.

Indiana_Jones

12th October 2008, 14:44

Indiana_Jones

12th October 2008, 16:31

<img src="http://www.pisnnapalm.com/pics/ruger/DSC00392.JPG">

That is a mint fucking .22 lol :2guns:

-Indy

Swoop

13th October 2008, 07:57

October 9, 2008: Earlier this year, the U.S. Department of Defense gave General Dynamics $9 million to try and develop a lightweight .50 caliber (12.7mm) machine-gun (to be known as LW50 for the moment) that works. An earlier attempt (the XM312) by General Dynamics did not work out so well. Actually, there are several other competitors for this project, and several failed attempts in the last few decades. The army wants a weapon that weighs about half as much as the current weapon (the 128 pound M-2), has fewer parts, less recoil and is easier to maintain. Unfortunately, none of the proposed designs has solved the biggest problem with earlier attempts; low rate of fire (usually about half the M2s 500 rounds a minute).

The first attempt at creating a replacement for the current M2 .50 caliber (12.7mm) machine-gun did not turn out too well. Three years ago, field testing of the XM-312, the proposed replacement for the eighty year old, .50 caliber (12.7mm) M-2 machine-gun, began, in the United States and overseas. Then, nothing. That's because the test results were not encouraging, the biggest shortcoming being the low rate of fire (about 260 rounds per minute). This is about half the rate of the M2, and was believed adequate for the 25mm smart shells the XM312 was originally designed for (as the XM307). But for 12.7mm bullets, it didn't impress the troops. There were some reliability problems, which could be fixed. The rate-of-fire issue, however, has proved to be more difficult. Meanwhile, a new upgrade for the M2 has been fielded, and Ma Deuce still rules the battlefield. The new M2E2 has a quick change barrel, flash hider and lot of small improvements. It is much in demand.

The M-2, nicknamed "Ma Deuce" by the troops, has been around so long because it was very good at what it does. Accurate, reliable, rugged and easy to use, many of the M-2s currently in use are decades old, and finally wearing out. The army doesn't want to build new ones, and wasn't sure it could do without the venerable, and very useful, M2. So it ended up going ahead with the plan to build a new .50 caliber machine-gun (the XM312). Actually, this Ma Deuce replacement is basically the XM307, but without the ability to fire 25mm rounds. The XM312 weighs 36 pounds (compared to 50 for the M-2), even with the addition of the electronic fire control stuff from the XM307.

The LW50 will ignore the 25mm business, and probably borrow a lot of ideas from superior 12.7mm designs developed in other nations. That's because the LW50 won't be the first lightweight rival for the Ma Deuce replacement market. Buying a superior foreign replacement is difficult politically (although it is done), and there is also the feeling that the superior foreign weapons aren't as superior as they could be.

Actually, there have been many attempts to design a "new and improved" M2, and all have failed, to one degree or another, in one department or another. The basic problem is that the M2 is sturdy, reliable and gets the job done to the satisfaction of the users. The LW50 is apparently going to try and get around this by designing a better recoil system, and use modern electronic sights so that gunners can get more out of fewer bullets. Most combat veterans prefer the current rate of fire (7-8 bullets per second) to the slower (4 per second) one of the LW50. That attitude may change, as troops get to use the LW50 in combat. They may appreciate the ability to get more out of the same ammo supply, and deliver more accurate single shots and short bursts.

What the army is hoping to do with LW50 is not get an M2 replacement, but a "good enough" lightweight 12.7mm machine-gun, for those situations where such a weapon is needed. SOCOM (Special Operations Command), for example, has some lightweight vehicles in the works, that are too light to carry an M2, but could handle a lighter 12.7mm weapon. The army wants to have such a lightweight machine-gun for the troops in about three years. Meanwhile, the army has ordered 40,000 new M2s!

no-coast-punk

13th October 2008, 08:47

Mr Merde

13th October 2008, 08:51

Are you guys allowed to own .50" rifles/pistols over there? I couldn't really find anything in the laws about it.... but I didn't look too hard.

I'm slowly going through my gun collection to see what I can import and what I'll have to ditch.

YEs we are but over .50 there are restrictions.

Check out the NZ Ploice website as there is a list of firearms that are allowed in this country, by maker. If one of your guns isnt on this list dont worry as it may still be allowed.

Chris

The Pastor

13th October 2008, 17:27

Indiana_Jones

13th October 2008, 17:33

http://www.police.govt.nz/service/firearms/importing.html

Give them a buzz, mate.

-Indy

sAsLEX

13th October 2008, 17:49

http://www.police.govt.nz/service/firearms/importing.html

Give them a buzz, mate.

-Indy

SAKO TRG-41 RIFLE BOLT

SAKO TRG21 RIFLE BOLT

interesting.....

Mr Merde

13th October 2008, 22:22

What are the rules about buying firearms overseas? I want to get http://www.guncity.co.nz/308me-marlin-308mxlr-lever-action-rifle-24-s-s-xidp216588.html which is about $270-300 cheaper if i buy from the states.

Is it worth the hassle or should i support kiwi business.

Find out the shipping costs plus you will be liable for GST on goods over $400.

For 6 brass cases for my .56 I was quoted $30 US to buy but postage was $60 NZ

You will also ned to get a permit to import from the firearms dept of the NZ police. No cost but without it Customs will not release the item.

We even have to get these for springs and such for our pistols nowadays and Customs target parcels from companies such as Brownells.

Chris

Indiana_Jones

13th October 2008, 22:24

Damn, tempted to buy Ruger 10/22 soon.

Damn you Chris lol

-Indy

The Pastor

14th October 2008, 10:23

oh crap i just spent more than a months wage on a firearm >_<

Wolf

14th October 2008, 10:37

oh crap i just spent more than a months wage on a firearm >_<
Nothing wrong with that - provided you paid it off over more than a month (else you'd be pretty hungry by now...)

What I want is at least a month's wages as well.

Monsterbishi

14th October 2008, 12:30

Mr Merde

14th October 2008, 12:36

Just buy local, give Reloaders supplies or Serious Shooters a call, they usually have the best prices compared to what Guncity offer.

I agree here, from what I have seen Guncity charge over the odds compared to these other shops. If you go to Serious Shooters inPenrose ask for Eric. Very tall gentleman in his early 60's. A very knowlegable man with regards to shooting but importantly he will only sell you what you really need, not what he gets the best commision for.

Mention me to him (Chris from Onewhero). He is a friend.

Chris

The Pastor

14th October 2008, 12:36

Just buy local, give Reloaders supplies or Serious Shooters a call, they usually have the best prices compared to what Guncity offer.
yeah i gave serrious shooters a call, seems like he will be getting my bussiness (the other stores i rang or emailed never got back to me...)

Also with GST theres no point buying overseas. Not much saving at all.

The Pastor

14th October 2008, 14:33

yeah not sure if it was eric i spoke to, but who ever it was was a wealth of knowledge. and wasnt shy of sharing it either - spoke for ages

heading in on thursday

Wolf

14th October 2008, 15:11

yeah not sure if it was eric i spoke to, but who ever it was was a wealth of knowledge. and wasnt shy of sharing it either - spoke for ages

heading in on thursday
All the best in locating what you want

The Pastor

14th October 2008, 15:16

pictures to come up soon

The Pastor

15th October 2008, 12:40

Chirs would it be ok if I come out on sunday at about 2.30?

sAsLEX

15th October 2008, 13:08

Chirs would it be ok if I come out on sunday at about 2.30?

Only if we gets pics of your new toy!

The Pastor

15th October 2008, 13:16

Only if we gets pics of your new toy!
picking it up tomorrow mate,

good luck in the south island, how long you down there for?

sAsLEX

15th October 2008, 13:19

picking it up tomorrow mate,

good luck in the south island, how long you down there for?

A week roughly so hopefully get some decent weather to get out into the hills for enough to bring home some meat or a trophy, good to get out of Auckland anyways!

The Pastor

15th October 2008, 13:47

A week roughly so hopefully get some decent weather to get out into the hills for enough to bring home some meat or a trophy, good to get out of Auckland anyways!
have you been hunting before?

sAsLEX

15th October 2008, 15:26

have you been hunting before?

Not too seriously for big game, hit rabbits possums and the like plenty before, and done a fair bit of tramping and outdoors shit but never armed (or having to lug around a Steyr with blanks :no:)

Indiana_Jones

16th October 2008, 21:41

Yay Permit came today :niceone:

-Indy

The Pastor

17th October 2008, 18:42

lock stock and two smoking barrels.

Rifle pics will come up tomorrow- all going well.

Indiana_Jones

18th October 2008, 18:21

Here are the photo's scott promised.

:2guns:

-Indy

scumdog

18th October 2008, 20:03

Here are the photo's scott promised.

:2guns:

-Indy

Ferkin' noice!!

Never read the earlier posts on what you're getting but is it a Marlin 336 (or similar) in 444 Marlin or sommat like that????:confused:

Oh, and ya might find the brim of that fancy hat gets in the way of yer scope dude!!

Indiana_Jones

18th October 2008, 23:11

Ferkin' noice!!

Never read the earlier posts on what you're getting but is it a Marlin 336 (or similar) in 444 Marlin or sommat like that????:confused:

Oh, and ya might find the brim of that fancy hat gets in the way of yer scope dude!!

Scott has got the 308 Marlin Express with a scope and I have an 1964 Marlin 336.

The hat also makes Scott hardcore!

-Indy

ManDownUnder

19th October 2008, 12:28

Question...

Cartridge Overall Length (COL) for 270 WSM, with Remington 130gr Core Lokt PSP projectiles?

Think I can find the bastard???? Also any load data/recipes would be appreciated

Indiana_Jones

19th October 2008, 21:55

Got us some Turkeys.

yummy

-Indy

Mr Merde

19th October 2008, 22:04

Got us some Turkeys.

yummy

-Indy

Just hope Curious AJ doesnt mind the plucking and gutting !!! :done:

The new rifle RM has is a real beauty. And a bloody straight shooter.

Only just went over the head of that tuurkey at about 200 metres.

But a .308 on a turkey, never mentioned it but there wouldnt have been much left if you had of hit it.

Even Indy is getting good with that old Russian piece of iron mongery.

Sorry Wolf I only just turned the PC on toinight.

Next week OK?

Chris

Indiana_Jones

19th October 2008, 22:10

Just hope Curious AJ doesnt mind the plucking and gutting !!! :done:

The new rifle RM has is a real beauty. And a bloody straight shooter.

Only just went over the head of that tuurkey at about 200 metres.

But a .308 on a turkey, never mentioned it but there wouldnt have been much left if you had of hit it.

Even Indy is getting good with that old Russian piece of iron mongery.

Sorry Wolf I only just turned the PC on toinight.

Next week OK?

Chris

Had to leave the Turkey business to Scott unfortuantly as I had to help with dinner etc with AJ, plus she was grumpy for being out so late! :Police:

Might have to do it tomorrow.

And yea, wouldn't be any Turkey left if Scott has got it with that .308 lol

Thanks again Chris :)

-Indy

Wolf

19th October 2008, 22:19

Sorry Wolf I only just turned the PC on toinight.

Next week OK?
S'OK. Probably won't be able to make next week, but possibly the one after. Will drag "Shiny side up" along since he'd hoped to head out there today and wound up working a miracle on my bike instead.

Was all geared up to come out, had given the rifles a post-hibernation clean, grabbed the ammo - felt kinda like a dead atheist, all dressed up and nowhere to go. But on the plus side, we got the bike running again in between two massive downpours so I'm mobile again. Thought for certain that I'd be taking the bus to and from work for a while until I'd saved up a fortune for a lot of wrecked engine bits.

Instead SSU got the bike fixed - and gave me a few grey hairs into the bargain! Engine work is not for the squeamish or faint of heart - sometimes in order to get things done you need someone fully prepared to take to the insides of your beloved steed with a fucking-great hammer).

The Pastor

19th October 2008, 23:23

Got us some Turkeys.

yummy

-Indy

BAM! and the turkey was gone.

Just hope Curious AJ doesnt mind the plucking and gutting !!! :done:
Chris

Had to leave the Turkey business to Scott unfortuantly as I had to help with dinner etc with AJ, plus she was grumpy for being out so late! :Police:

-Indy

Yes....... somehow i ended up cleaning both birds. First one I plucked then "cleaned" more like hacked up! I dont think too much meet was wasted but its not pretty!

Second one (male) I just took the brests off - you dont even have to gut or pluck! much quicker and easier.

Its ok, i'll just make andrew clean anything we get next weekend!

Mr Merde

20th October 2008, 20:27

S'OK. Probably won't be able to make next week, but possibly the one after. Will drag "Shiny side up" along since he'd hoped to head out there today and wound up working a miracle on my bike instead.

Was all geared up to come out, had given the rifles a post-hibernation clean, grabbed the ammo - felt kinda like a dead atheist, all dressed up and nowhere to go. But on the plus side, we got the bike running again in between two massive downpours so I'm mobile again. Thought for certain that I'd be taking the bus to and from work for a while until I'd saved up a fortune for a lot of wrecked engine bits.

Instead SSU got the bike fixed - and gave me a few grey hairs into the bargain! Engine work is not for the squeamish or faint of heart - sometimes in order to get things done you need someone fully prepared to take to the insides of your beloved steed with a fucking-great hammer).

Weekend after next OK by me.

Still have a lot of decorating to do on the house and the long weekend should give me some trime. Sharron is working so I'm going to be on my own. Will need something to do.

Might just play around with the reloading and see if I can work up a nice round for the M1 on one of the 3 days.

Got my .223 printing on the paper yesterday. I had messed up the settings on the scope something dreadfull. Got it down to 2" group at 100 metres. Now some fine tuning to get it to 3/4 inch groups. Then I will be happy. Until I change my load and porojectile.

My workmates at the job I just finished bought me a Birchwood Casey Blueing kit as a going away present. I'm going to give it a go on the Remington Rolling Block (If I dont like it I will strip it and start again). Cleaned up the barrel on said rifle. After 1 hour of chemical stripping and fine wire wool it looks clean, as the instructions say "if it looks clean, do it 2 or 3 more times".

This rifle has taken 2 years so far. I'm aching to shoot the thing but want it as good as I can make it. Once I start shooting it the "battle scars" will appear. Starting to think about the next project. I would love to rebuild something like an 1886 Winchestere or a 1893 Marlin so if anyone out there in KB land has one that has seen "better days" (or a 1873, 1866, 1876 or 1892 Winchester; Marlin 1881, and later) then please contact me.

Come to think of it if anyone out there has any rifle from the period 1860 to 1898 they want a good home for then please contact me.

British, US I dont mind.

Chris

deanohit

20th October 2008, 20:36

Ahhhhhh I'm loving been back home, I'd forgotten how much fun it is to spot light possums.

I have aquired a pet Hawk with one wing, it was hit by a car, patched up by the DOC and passed onto me for recuperation and to provide education to our customers.
But bugger me if the hungry bastard doesn't clean up 3 possums a week!

Ha, he has a bit of help from a weka we have who some dumb plonker shot with a crossbow.
Poor fellow was in a poor state when we got him, but is doing much better and is cheeky as hell.

The rabbits are also no longer a problem, boy were thay tasty.

I love my .22LRs.

Wolf

20th October 2008, 20:52

Weekend after next OK by me.
Excellent! Here's hoping for fine weather and no more bike problems.

This rifle has taken 2 years so far. I'm aching to shoot the thing but want it as good as I can make it.
I'm feeling rather remiss - I've had the Brno for quite some time (Walnut stock "Luxus" model) and I haven't been using it but the stock is still factory varnished!

Shocking. Was a time a stock would be well and truly stripped and properly oiled within a few months of being purchased by me but this thing's been sitting idle for a couple of years because I've had neither the time nor place to shoot and I haven't so much as applied stripper to the wood.

ManDownUnder

20th October 2008, 20:58

weekend after next...???

hmmm -
new unfired 270WSM... check
new (to me) yet to pick up motorised transport... check
gun bag... check
cleaning gunge... check
cleaning kit... not check
ammo ... not check.
permission... not check.

I'm a good way there. See what shows up huh?

doc

21st October 2008, 17:44

I would love to rebuild something like an 1886 Winchestere or a 1893 Marlin so if anyone out there in KB land has one that has seen "better days" (or a 1873, 1866, 1876 or 1892 Winchester; Marlin 1881, and later) then please contact me.

Come to think of it if anyone out there has any rifle from the period 1860 to 1898 they want a good home for then please contact me.

British, US I dont mind.

Chris

I've got this .22 which is great for taking the kids out after possums. Trouble is the hammer spring doesn't have the same force it use to. Was fine before a friend's son who is an NZ Airforce armourer had a go at it. Any idea's who I could trust to fix it properly.

Indiana_Jones

21st October 2008, 17:59

Mr Merde

21st October 2008, 20:17

I've got this .22 which is great for taking the kids out after possums. Trouble is the hammer spring doesn't have the same force it use to. Was fine before a friend's son who is an NZ Airforce armourer had a go at it. Any idea's who I could trust to fix it properly.

New springs are available for this rifle from the US.

Check that there isnt a pice of leather between the spring and the lower tang. If there is then you can remove it. Thats one trick we use on our competition rifles and pistols to make the hammer lighter. Could be any filler.

I have a couple of mates who are marlin collectors. They can advise. I'll check with them.

Try the site below for parts

http://www.wisnersinc.com/rifles/marlin/rflever.htm

Chris.

PS Welcome to the club of those who have made me jealous. A lovely rifle. One I personally would love to hold in my collection. If you ever think of getting rid of it please keep me in mind.

Indiana_Jones

21st October 2008, 21:13

PS Welcome to the club of those who have made me jealous. A lovely rifle. One I personally would love to hold in my collection. If you ever think of getting rid of it please keep me in mind.

I'm in there right?

Cause you really want my Nagant aye? :lol:

-Indy

Mr Merde

21st October 2008, 21:18

I'm in there right?

Cause you really want my Nagant aye? :lol:

-Indy

Of course you are mate.

One never knows when the old back will go again and one will be in need of a solid piece of steel and wood as a makeshift walking stick.

You never know when Germany will once again invade Stalingrad and firearms will be in such short supply that the old museum pieces will be once again resurected.

Indiana_Jones

21st October 2008, 21:33

Of course you are mate.

One never knows when the old back will go again and one will be in need of a solid piece of steel and wood as a makeshift walking stick.

You never know when Germany will once again invade Stalingrad and firearms will be in such short supply that the old museum pieces will be once again resurected.

My God, he's right!

-Indy

Mr Merde

22nd October 2008, 14:01

My God, he's right!

-Indy

And in my case there may be a resurgence in the number of North American Bison and I will have need of my old buffalo gun.

Mr Merde

22nd October 2008, 14:07

Wolf

22nd October 2008, 14:38

The attached exploded parts diagram is for the 1894 but from what I have seen the mainspring (part no 40) is the same on your rifle the 1892.

This friend of yours may have shortened the spring by a few coils in an attempt to lighten the hammer strike.
So a suitable compression spring of the right diameter from a machine shop would suffice? Slightly longer or same length but harder to compress perhaps?

Mr Merde

22nd October 2008, 14:58

So a suitable compression spring of the right diameter from a machine shop would suffice? Slightly longer or same length but harder to compress perhaps?

Would probably work if you had a slightly longer spring. There must be specialist spring shops in NZ who could match what you have or need.

A Ruger SA pistol has a similar spring and again you can lighten the hammer fall by shortening the spring.

Shouldnt cost too much to try.

Chris

PS From all accounts I have read this riflem of yours is a fun little shooter. Came out with an octagonal barrel version and also there were various barrel lengths. Production stopped in 1913 and there were approx 30,000 made. It was updated in 1897 then again later to become the Model 39A.

sAsLEX

22nd October 2008, 20:51

Chris

Talking to Dad about that rifle I was telling you about, and he had done some research on it and according to the types of screws etc used around it he puts it at 1905....

Ha, he has a bit of help from a weka we have who some dumb plonker shot with a crossbow.
Poor fellow was in a poor state when we got him, but is doing much better and is cheeky as hell.

So how about DOC killing 60% of Weka populations in areas they 1080 and deeming that acceptable? A much crueller death.

Or 40% of monitored Kea ?

And they say deer are ruining our bush, only saw two of the fuckers of over my week away and that was without ammunition in the gun....... some very lucky deer.

Mr Merde

22nd October 2008, 21:09

Talking to Dad about that rifle I was telling you about, and he had done some research on it and according to the types of screws etc used around it he puts it at 1905....

......

you told me it was in 38-40. You cant get ammo very easily for it but you can get reloading equipment for that calibre. 1905 it should be OK for modern powder but just to be sure I would shoot it with blackpowder as it generates lower pressurres in the barrel.

Tell him I am going green with envy.

Two people in a week with my type of firearm. Doc then you. I'm going to have to sit down and read my books some more. This weekend feels like a cleaning and reloading weekend.

Need to get some more BP and some shotgun wads or maybe do it the old fashioned way with felt and cardboard.

Shame about the deer.

DOC have a lot to answer for but what else can you expect when they are run by the tree huggers.

Look what they are doing to the Thar in the Southern Alps. 1080 is severly resticted everywhere else in the world and this is the only one that allows it to be distributed by air. Its all a cost thing. 1080 costs about 2 cents an acre where the next type of poison costs about 10 cents.

Chris

The Pastor

22nd October 2008, 21:45

Talking to Dad about that rifle I was telling you about, and he had done some research on it and according to the types of screws etc used around it he puts it at 1905....

So how about DOC killing 60% of Weka populations in areas they 1080 and deeming that acceptable? A much crueller death.

Or 40% of monitored Kea ?

And they say deer are ruining our bush, only saw two of the fuckers of over my week away and that was without ammunition in the gun....... some very lucky deer.
so you didnt bag anything? damn I hope indy and I are a bit more lucky!

emaN

22nd October 2008, 21:50

Seriously: what does the 6.5x55 shoot like compared with the .308 and .243? (I've fired both but not the 6.5)
I've not shot a .308 or a .243 (although there's a couple in the group of mates I go "smelly-shooting" with - gonna have a go next time), but I love my 6.5!

Crisp trigger, 'controlled' recoil (for want of a better description), shoots nice 'n true & drops 'em!
My first 'big' gun & she's a keeper. The boys have become rather envious. Another bonus is she weighs less than the .308.

Chris (& others), cheers for all the info/tips/pics!

Mr Merde

23rd October 2008, 07:29

...

Chris (& others), cheers for all the info/tips/pics!

This is one instance where I can truely say that the pleasure has been all mine.

I always very much enjoy talking firearms, shooting and hunting.

The only thing about me is that I do tend to burble along a lot.

Chris

doc

24th October 2008, 20:34

The attached exploded parts diagram is for the 1894 but from what I have seen the mainspring (part no 40) is the same on your rifle the 1892.

This friend of yours may have shortened the spring by a few coils in an attempt to lighten the hammer strike.

Fixed the problem. the lever type spring was loose and not aligned properly.

Found another problem it's not ejecting properly. Suspect that the ejector is missing. Thanks for the diagram. Got me thinking, Google is my friend.

Mr Merde

25th October 2008, 08:51

Fixed the problem. the lever type spring was loose and not aligned properly.

Found another problem it's not ejecting properly. Suspect that the ejector is missing. Thanks for the diagram. Got me thinking, Google is my friend.

Glad I was of help getting that fine old rifle operational again. Yep "Google" is your friend. I have books here at home but no scanner. A little search and suddenly a wealth of information.

Chris

Mr Merde

25th October 2008, 08:57

For those of you who have been to my little shooting area out back.

You should see it today.

After a night of torrential rainfall the valley below is just water from one side to the other.

The road you turn into to get to my house is under a foot of water and there seems to be no let off in the rain yet.

Needed the rain as the tanks were a little low.

The firing point is high and dry as is the backstop\cliff but the ground just in front of the firing point is now calf deep in mud.

Bloody hell what a night.

Chris

Mr Merde

26th October 2008, 09:53

I thought that I would just write up the condition of this project.

I have almost finished the woodwork.

I carefully rub in about 1/2 a teaspoon of boiled linseed oil every two days now.

That little oil will cover the whole stock and the forearm. I continue rubbing it in until the wood feels dry. I then leave it to sit for a couple of days and repeat.

This action seems to be bringing out a veep finish.There is a shine to the wood that seems to penetrate further than just the surface of the wood.

Yesterday was a milestone for me as I decided to attempt applying the bluing from a Birchwood Casey DIY kit.

This kit was given to me as a farewell present from my friends at my last employer.

I sat down and followed the instructions to the letter. Even down to the bit about if you think it is clean enough then clean it 2-3 more times.
Wire wool and 800 grit sandpaper helped me get the flats of the octagonal barrel, gleaming. To keep the oils from my skin getting onto the bare metalwork I wore medical rubber gloves at all times.

Finally I took the plunge and applied the blueing agent. Long careful swipes with this liquid. Panic set in as it seemed to be very patchy.

Left it on for 60 seconds and rinced it off with water then wiped it dry.

Repeated this another 3 times. I wanted a deep, dark finish.

A word of warning to others who may use this product. Its not blue. It has a black finish.

After the third application I rinsed the barrel and applied the protection product supplied.

Over the next few hours I watched with anticipation and saw the finish smooth out and cover completely the flats with a uniform colour.

As the inbstructions advised I have left it over night to "cure".

This morning I have a rifle with a very nice black finished barrel. Coverage is even and there is a depth to the finish. Not as good as some jobs I have seen but enough for a rifle thats prime purpose is for use not show.

The rifle looks a little strange as i have left the action as I found it. I figure it has been around for over 130 years and has earned its patina along with all the scratches and knocks it bears.

So now I have only a few things to do to get the rifle into a working state.

I need to mount the front sight.

I need to drill and tap the upper receiver for the soule type rear sight. I need to adapt the rear sight so that when mounted it stands perpendicular to the sight plane of the barrel.

I need to drill the forend and make the tennon to which it will attach to the barrel. I need to make the escutchion that the screw holding the forend to the barrel, passes.

I need to mount the butt plate. This is 2 1/2 lbs of brass.

Witrh these things done the rifle will be ready to shoot.

I now need to get some 45-70 dies, a mould for this calibre that throws a projectile with a weight of about 520 grains when using an alloy of 1:20 tin:lead mixture. 100-200, 45-70 pieces of brass. a couple of kilos of black powder ( FFg and Fg). Large rifle primers (preferably magnum). Over powder card wads.

I also need to make a loading block and a set of cross sticks.

It never ends does it.

Once all this comes together (over the next 2 months) I will sit down and actually learn how this rifle shoots. I've purchased a mid range soule sight (3 inch travel) so the rifle should be good for up to about 800 yards with MOA accuracy ( 10 shots in an 8 inch group at 800 yards).

After two years this project is nearing the end. I'll have to find another one.

Chris

Pics to come.

b

The Pastor

27th October 2008, 11:17

Mr Merde

27th October 2008, 13:22

Look foward to seeing the pics chirs.

Myself and Indy didnt have tooo much luck with the hunt over the weekend. Found heaps of tracks and deer droppings - even found what I think to be game trails - like a deer path used often.

Found some small antlers or points off some antlers which were subsequensly taped to the front of the car :D

We took a wrong turn at the pine tree tho - ended up going through waste deep swamp and very thick blackberry bushes! very hard going.

But didnt see any deer or pigs.

I'll lay odds that there was too much noise.

Important thing is.

Did you enjoy the experience?

You will get better next time.

What time of the day did you go hunting?

Always found that early morning and late afternoon were best for me.

Maybe Scumdog can give some advice here as he is a much more experienced hunter that I.

Next time concentrate on going for one type of animal. Deer or pig. If you see the other then that is a bonus.

Still apart from getting wet, muddy, smelly and probably cold you sound as though it was fun

Chris

Indiana_Jones

27th October 2008, 14:03

Yea, It was a learning experience :)

We had fun, even when things got fairly shit lol (a lot of colourful language was coming out lol).

Personallu myself, I think I'd be more keen to try 'highland' shooting etc.

But saying that, I'd still give bush a go again.

Just no more black berry bushes! :(

Also, the GPS was really helpful at letting us know where we were, but you still need a magnetic compass as the GPS has trouble updating compas etc in the bush.

-Indy

chrisso

28th October 2008, 11:34

Wolf

28th October 2008, 12:17

Well its now Speed( Safety.....) Camera huntin season; any recommendations on weapon/calibre?? Im thinking 12 guage although id rather not be too close as these beasties are dangerous. Maybe a large cal like 30-06, .308?
Semi auto .22 could provide hours of shootin fun for the whole family:devil2:
Moderated bolt-action .22lr firing sub-sonics (so the report of the rifle won't spook other game)...

And fill the hollow points with mercury (you'll need to plug the hole with wax afterwards) - just because it's so fucking spectacular!

Mr Merde

28th October 2008, 13:41

Moderated bolt-action .22lr firing sub-sonics (so the report of the rifle won't spook other game)...

And fill the hollow points with mercury (you'll need to plug the hole with wax afterwards) - just because it's so fucking spectacular!

A misspent youth showing through here ?

Wolf

28th October 2008, 13:51

A misspent youth showing through here ?
I WISH!. A mate of mine did some experiments with filling the hollow points of .22 bullets with plasticine and mercury (from an old thermometer) and apparently they were reasonably spectacular. The plasticine made quite an impressive "exit wound" on a fence post and the mercury apparently took out over half the back of the strainer post.

This is purely anecdotal, I have no first hand experience nor did I witness it and I have no idea of the range he was shooting at nor any guarantees that he was not exaggerating the effects when he told me about it.

Something to keep in mind around this time of year when the new phone books are issued and there are usually surplus old phone books floating about just begging to be used "in the interests of ballistic science"...

sAsLEX

28th October 2008, 15:53

Personallu myself, I think I'd be more keen to try 'highland' shooting etc.

Also, the GPS was really helpful at letting us know where we were, but you still need a magnetic compass as the GPS has trouble updating compas etc in the bush.

-Indy

What do you mean highland?

http://photos-570.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v347/182/62/623286570/n623286570_1344103_7644.jpg

That was a mile up, literally, lots of chamois sign and some good tracks across scree paths, lots of fresh poo but none of the buggers!

Garmin do a very good GPS for bush that copes with sub-standard reception. Ours didn't loose position once, though it reduced accuracy in a couple of deep valleys we ventured into!

Can't wait to get out again, except I am working for the next few weekends.......

Indiana_Jones

28th October 2008, 16:48

What do you mean highland?

http://photos-570.ll.facebook.com/photos-ll-snc1/v347/182/62/623286570/n623286570_1344103_7644.jpg

That was a mile up, literally, lots of chamois sign and some good tracks across scree paths, lots of fresh poo but none of the buggers!

Garmin do a very good GPS for bush that copes with sub-standard reception. Ours didn't loose position once, though it reduced accuracy in a couple of deep valleys we ventured into!

Can't wait to get out again, except I am working for the next few weekends.......

Now that's what I'm on about!

Gotta try that sometime!

I got the basic Garmin etrex GPS, pretty good for like $190 :), the compass was having trouble updating, but the positions and range were pretty good.

-Indy

The Pastor

28th October 2008, 20:48

Now that's what I'm on about!

Gotta try that sometime!

I got the basic Garmin etrex GPS, pretty good for like $190 :), the compass was having trouble updating, but the positions and range were pretty good.

-Indy
you'd need a new rifle for highland shooting....

Indiana_Jones

28th October 2008, 20:57

you'd need a new rifle for highland shooting....

na, the 30-30 will go allllllllllll the way!

But seriously yea, I like the look of those Steven's Savages, http://www.guncity.co.nz/savage-stevens-dragunov-rifle-you-choose-the-cal-xidp216585.html

-Indy

hospitalfood

28th October 2008, 21:15

thinking of selling my savage .270 to put the money into a second bike.
it is only about 6 months old, 100 odd rounds through it, shoots MOA.
very good rifle and i know i will miss it, but no big game my way, and im totally obsessed with getting a second bike.

Indiana_Jones

28th October 2008, 21:52

Kaituna

29th October 2008, 18:05

2916300262_4d1bbc25ae_o.jpg

Wolf

29th October 2008, 18:56

na, the 30-30 will go allllllllllll the way!

But seriously yea, I like the look of those Steven's Savages, http://www.guncity.co.nz/savage-stevens-dragunov-rifle-you-choose-the-cal-xidp216585.html

-Indy
WTF!!!?? No 7.62x54R option??!!

Indiana_Jones

29th October 2008, 19:02

WTF!!!?? No 7.62x54R option??!!

lol I think Nagant and Dragunov are the only guns that take that round lol, havn't seen any others.

But I might be wrong on that!

-Indy

sAsLEX

29th October 2008, 19:44

2916300262_4d1bbc25ae_o.jpg

You call that firepower......

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ea/BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg/300px-BB61_USS_Iowa_BB61_broadside_USN.jpg

anything less than 5 inches is a pistol......

Wolf

29th October 2008, 19:51

anything less than 5 inches is a pistol......
Well, mine at least makes it to "rifle"... :whistle:

Oh, you meant bore diameter! :eek:
:Oops:

Swoop

30th October 2008, 07:07

anything less than 5 inches is a pistol......
The drawback is the amount of leather required to make the holster...

doc

31st October 2008, 19:35

Moderated bolt-action .22lr firing sub-sonics (so the report of the rifle won't spook other game)...

Try these they make less noise than an air rifle no need for a moderator either. Used 100 last weekend on a quarter acre, and no one noticed. Kids had a ball.

pritch

31st October 2008, 20:04

You call that firepower......

Look at how the recoil is pushing that ship sideways. Brilliant photo!

sAsLEX

31st October 2008, 22:01

Look at how the recoil is pushing that ship sideways. Brilliant photo!

And the vid

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mfEB8TSu1Pw&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mfEB8TSu1Pw&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

But we can put more rounds on target with one gun now

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QpXjshw_eT8&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QpXjshw_eT8&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Swoop

1st November 2008, 13:19

Look at how the recoil is pushing that ship sideways. Brilliant photo!
The ship moves the ship's width, under a broadside discharge.

pritch

2nd November 2008, 18:49

The ship moves the ship's width, under a broadside discharge.

I dunno shit about that stuff, I was in the infantry. It was a great day if we had a dugout canoe...

Mr Merde

2nd November 2008, 20:13

Wolf

2nd November 2008, 21:21

A good afternoon spent with Wolf and Sunny Side Up and the kids.

Enjoyed the shooting.

Loved watching the excitement in the kids.

Sunny Side Up, that Husky is the best bargin I have heard of.

A turkey at 200 yards with an unfamiliar rifle. Good shooting.

Wolf, after all the years talking to you it has been a real treat finally meeting you.

Welcome anytime,

Chris.
That was a totally wicked afternoon's fun. Really enjoyed myself and Taliesin had a ball.

Cheers for letting me fire your lever action - I can now understand your passion for black powder. Superb rifle and a real beaut to shoot with. Can't get over the smooth, light action on that beastie - made my old Miroku seem as tight as a nun's whatsit!

Taliesin was completely entranced and had a really good go at it - three different .22s, the lever action and the SKS.

Yep, it was great finally meeting IRL, quite the treat for me, also.

BTW, your suggested return route was much easier and faster (though the route we came out on would be a lot of fun on the bike.)

Cheers again for your hospitality and showing off your arsenal. Nice to finally see your rebuild project IRL - the pics just don't do it justice (nor do they convey the weight of that sucker!) you've done a fantastic job of the stock.

Still got a silly grin on my face - been waaaaayyyyyy too long since I went out and blew holes in things.

BTW, question (open to anyone):

How would a pistol scope (with its long focal depth) do on an SKS (top eject and I have no desire to mount a sight rail across the rear bolt cover). I was thinking a pistol sight would be able to be mounted forward of the ejector on the top of the barrel.

Mr Merde

3rd November 2008, 07:10

....

BTW, question (open to anyone):

How would a pistol scope (with its long focal depth) do on an SKS (top eject and I have no desire to mount a sight rail across the rear bolt cover). I was thinking a pistol sight would be able to be mounted forward of the ejector on the top of the barrel.

It should work OK. The thing you need to remember with pistol scopes is that they have a long eye relief and they need to be held pretty much at arms length from your eye.

I had one on my Thompson Contender pistol and it was very easy to use.

This was a 4 x 40 Bushnell and I had no trouble picking up a target at 300 yards with it and seening the hole punched in the paper.

If you look at the original idea for the "scout rifle" as propose by Jeff Cooper you will see that he suggested that the scope be mounted just where you are thinking of.

PS How did the young lads "scope eye" turn out? Leave a mark?

Chris

Swoop

3rd November 2008, 07:47

I had one on my Thompson Contender pistol and it was very easy to use.

This was a 4 x 40 Bushnell and I had no trouble picking up a target at 300 yards with it and seening the hole punched in the paper.
Careful. Saying that you can use a pistol at more than 5 yards will get you a good talking to, around here...

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 08:33

It should work OK. The thing you need to remember with pistol scopes is that they have a long eye relief and they need to be held pretty much at arms length from your eye.
Yeah, counting on that long relief to get it well clear of the ejection port and away from that bolt cover. I actually like the fact I can quickly extract the bolt from it - which I would not be able to do with the set-up I saw on another SKS: they had mounted a brass deflector over the ejection port, secured the bolt housing to the reciever (so it would not shift slightly) and mounted the rings to the forward receiver and the rear bolt cover. It worked but extracting the bolt could only be achieved by removing the scope (thus guaranteeing another sighting in session would be needed) and setting-to with a screwdriver.

That 4x40 Bushnell sounds the biz and if it can cope with the blast of a Contender, it'll survive the "rigours" of a little SKS.

PS How did the young lads "scope eye" turn out? Leave a mark?
Dunno, last I saw was when SSU dropped me off at home and he was fine then. If any bruising has developed overnight, his mum'll be the first to notice (then I'm sure SSU will be getting a phone call...)

I'm old and outta shape - despite yesterday not being particularly strenuous, I actually felt somewhat stiff and sluggish this morning (Taliesin, of course, was up and about ricochetting off the walls as usual - the resilience of youth!).

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 08:35

Careful. Saying that you can use a pistol at more than 5 yards will get you a good talking to, around here...
Yer! We all knows that the only way to hit a target with a pistol is at point blank range. :msn-wink:

Swoop

3rd November 2008, 08:44

Yeah, counting on that long relief to get it well clear of the ejection port and away from that bolt cover.
My first SKS, I had that setup. Scope mount bolted onto the LH side of the action and requiring a lot of fiddly work to get the cleaning done.
I have since replaced rifle and also the scope setup with a very nice little Dinky Toy (chinese made, unfortunately) scope and mount package.
Purchased at the Auckland gun show! Good price as well.
Will try and remember to take a photo tonight.

pritch

3rd November 2008, 09:45

Careful. Saying that you can use a pistol at more than 5 yards will get you a good talking to, around here...

I must've missed something. Who says you have to miss at more than 5 yards?

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 09:48

My first SKS, I had that setup. Scope mount bolted onto the LH side of the action and requiring a lot of fiddly work to get the cleaning done.
I have since replaced rifle and also the scope setup with a very nice little Dinky Toy (chinese made, unfortunately) scope and mount package.
Purchased at the Auckland gun show! Good price as well.
Will try and remember to take a photo tonight.
Would definitely like to see.

My only worry is that the eye relief of a pistol scope would mean positioning the scope so far forward that it impinges on the gas return assembly (which needs to be detached for cleaning). I'm mindful I only have a limited area in which to mount a scope in such a way that it does not foul various parts of the rifle so it would be nice to see what others have done in that regard.

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 09:54

I must've missed something. Who says you have to miss at more than 5 yards?
There have been a few posters in the past who have expressed disbelief that you can hit anything smaller than a barn beyond 50m with a pistol - to the point of heaping scorn on them as have claimed to have done so. It's the shooting equivalent of "you can't wheelie a shaftie" - oft said, despite the large number of people who have done so...

Swoop

3rd November 2008, 10:09

Would definitely like to see.

My only worry is that the eye relief of a pistol scope would mean positioning the scope so far forward that it impinges on the gas return assembly (which needs to be detached for cleaning).
Yup. This sits on top of the rear bolt return-spring dust cover. The front of the scope isn't far enough forward to foul the spent cases. Scope would be able to sit between your wrist and fingertips and is designed as a riflescope (not a pistol scope).

Mr Merde

3rd November 2008, 10:23

Careful. Saying that you can use a pistol at more than 5 yards will get you a good talking to, around here...

I was useless. I could only get a group approximately of about 4 inches. The good Long Range Pistol Shooters were managing groups of 2" or less. I fact they had a friendly competition in the early 90's betweena LR Pistol shooter and a 300 yard prone rifle shooter and the pistol shooter won. Definitely p155ed the rifle shooter off.

The only stabilisation we were allowed was to rest the butt on a sand bag or similar.

5 sighters

then 10 shots to count in 30 min.

I used a Contender in 7mmTCU.
Nosler 130 gn Partition tip
25 gns of H332
Speer .223 brass fireformed to calibre.
Magum primer.

From a 10" barrel approx 2000fps

Kicked like a mule until you got used to it then you hardly noticed it

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 10:23

Yup. This sits on top of the rear bolt return-spring dust cover.
The removeable cover that enables you to extract the bolt? Doesn't that make it difficult for removing said cover?

Swoop

3rd November 2008, 10:31

Definitely p155ed the rifle shooter off.
Definately! Paying all that money on an extra piece of pipe which wasn't required...
With the price of scrap steel these days it would be worth it if he got the hacksaw out.:rofl:

The removeable cover that enables you to extract the bolt?
Doesn't that make it difficult for removing said cover?
That's the one.
The unit replaces the cover and has the mount attached. Pulling it apart for cleaning is exactly the same as the normal factory fitted one.

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 10:34

I was useless. I could only get a group approximately of about 4 inches.
I dare say you'd be better than me.

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 10:46

Definately! Paying all that money on an extra piece of pipe which wasn't required...
With the price of scrap steel these days it would be worth it if he got the hacksaw out.:rofl:
Bwahahahahaha! I can't bling you again.

That's the one.
The unit replaces the cover and has the mount attached. Pulling it apart for cleaning is exactly the same as the normal factory fitted one.
And it doesn't throw the sights out of whack taking the cover off and putting it back on?

Swoop

3rd November 2008, 10:51

And it doesn't throw the sights out of whack taking the cover off and putting it back on?
Not as far as I have noticed.

I had one of the B-Square mounts that was an absolute PITA to live with. It moved around... a lot.
This is much better behaved.
(I won't have to put anything in the post when I actually take the piccie of it. All has been mentioned already!).

Mr Merde

3rd November 2008, 12:04

The basic premise of a scout rifle as defined by the late Jeff Cooper.

http://pw1.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutrifle.html#Telescope

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 13:14

Given the paucity of mounting places for a scope on the SKS, I was also thinking of something like this (or comparable):

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=531958

Anyone had experience with red dot sights?

I thought of open rather than tube type as it should be small enough to mount where the rear sight of the SKS currently sits - between ejector port and gas return tube...

Swoop

3rd November 2008, 13:31

Anyone had experience with red dot sights?
:o
Me again...
I have a PDP2 tube red-dot.
Wherever the dot is, that is shot placement. Great for falling plates and steel!
The PDP 3(?) with the bigger tubes were known to be tricky, as the dot had to be towards the centre of the tube to be accurate.
Haven't played with the holographic-sights but they look tempting for short range stuff... but then again a ghost-ring sight might be simpler.

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 13:45

:o
Me again...
I have a PDP2 tube red-dot.
Wherever the dot is, that is shot placement. Great for falling plates and steel!
The PDP 3(?) with the bigger tubes were known to be tricky, as the dot had to be towards the centre of the tube to be accurate.
Haven't played with the holographic-sights but they look tempting for short range stuff... but then again a ghost-ring sight might be simpler.
Maybe it'd be quickest to ask you what you haven't fired/used.

The issue I have is that I don't get a particularly clear sight picture with the iron sights on the SKS. Not with my eyesight, anyway.

A couple of Chris's older rifles had nice clear sights, whereas I find it hard to get something other than a blurry blob with feathered/ghosted edges on the SKS and the Brno

Mr Merde

3rd November 2008, 13:46

:o
.....but then again a ghost-ring sight might be simpler.

The natural tendacy of the eye to centralise a point inside a circle. Very good for fast shooting.

Mr Merde

3rd November 2008, 13:48

Maybe it'd be quickest to ask you what you haven't fired/used.

The issue I have is that I don't get a particularly clear sight picture with the iron sights on the SKS. Not with my eyesight, anyway.

A couple of Chris's older rifles had nice clear sights, whereas I find it hard to get something other than a blurry blob with feathered/ghosted edges on the SKS and the Brno

Black them.

Commercial stuff or I use a black felt tip pen on all the metal surfaces.

Stops the light being bounced around bu the shiny metal.

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 14:09

Black them.

Commercial stuff or I use a black felt tip pen on all the metal surfaces.

Stops the light being bounced around bu the shiny metal.

Cheers, I'll give that a try.

So that's front post and just the rear surface of the rear sight? Or do I need to black the entire rear dovetail? Do I need to black the inside of the front shroud?

Edit: The sight picture on your lever action is way clearer than my SKS or Brno. I think the curved top of the rear sight helps. It also seems the dovetail is wider and deeper and the post is thicker - though that could just be an optical illusion.

Mr Merde

3rd November 2008, 14:13

Cheers, I'll give that a try.

So that's front post and just the rear surface of the rear sight? Or do I need to black the entire rear dovetail? Do I need to black the inside of the front shroud?

It wouldnt hurt to do all surfaces. Try smoke from a candle and see if that maks a difference. If it does then too much light is getting to the metal surfaces.

Something to do with difraction.

Chris

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 14:17

It wouldnt hurt to do all surfaces. Try smoke from a candle and see if that maks a difference.
And if it does, it's time to get out the matt-black paint?

Swoop

3rd November 2008, 15:32

The issue I have is that I don't get a particularly clear sight picture with the iron sights on the SKS.
Righto, here we are...
NC Star 4x30.

Plus the Tasco PDP.

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 18:03

Righto, here we are...
NC Star 4x30.
Cheers for that. Is that the original cover that it's mounted to?

Swoop

3rd November 2008, 19:56

Cheers for that. Is that the original cover that it's mounted to?
No. I bought the replacement cover with the rail attached.

Hitcher

3rd November 2008, 21:37

Mrs H went gun shopping in Rapid City, South Dakota...

sAsLEX

3rd November 2008, 21:55

Mrs H went gun shopping in Rapid City, South Dakota...

Finger always outside the trigger guard.......

I love Gun stores in the states. Went to one in Vegas larger than your average red shed is here. :drool:

Hitcher

3rd November 2008, 22:02

They're certainly not cheap. The Big Mother is a Smith & Wesson 460XVR which, with the scope, was pushing US$2,000. Mr Shopkeeper said it was for "hunting".

The two 38s, also S&Ws, are "ladies guns". The lefthand one was titanium with a polymer barrel, and a fraction of the weight of the stainless. Both had laser-pointer sighting. Woo hoo! I think that the stainless was about US$800 and the titanium one close to $1,200, but the memory is getting a bit loose on that.

This shop had a full range of S&Ws -- including "collectables", and a full range of Glocks and Sig Sauers.

jrandom

3rd November 2008, 22:12

They're certainly not cheap. The Big Mother is a Smith & Wesson 460XVR which, with the scope, was pushing US$2,000. Mr Shopkeeper said it was for "hunting".

No, really, it is.

They have a lot of restricted hunting seasons over there, presumably due to most game animals' habitats being turned into parking lots.

For large swathes of time and space throughout the USA, you can only hunt with pistols, or with muzzle-loading weapons, or with bows, etc. Hence 'hunting pistols' becoming a whole separate market segment.

The lefthand one was titanium with a polymer barrel, and a fraction of the weight of the stainless.

Yow. Imagine the snap on that thing.

:crazy:

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 23:50

Mrs H went gun shopping in Rapid City, South Dakota...
It's the diabolical smile that's got me worried. Dude, your missus is scary!

And the fingers on the triggers...

Wolf

3rd November 2008, 23:53

Finger always outside the trigger guard.......
As Chris and I kept repeating to Taliesin.

ManDownUnder

4th November 2008, 13:16

ok - tikka T3 270WSM needs pairing to a Weaver 3.5-10 x 50

I like the look of the dednutz mounting rails (http://www.opticsplanet.net/dnz-dednutz-tikka-t3-1in-scope-mount.html)... but what others are out there.

Also - They come in short medium and high - I'd prefer medium (which suits most 50mm objectives) but if I have/opt to go for the high one - much disadvantage considering the zero will likey be 150 - 200m?

I think not personally.. but open to comment before I part with cash

NOWOOL

4th November 2008, 14:01

ManDownUnder

4th November 2008, 14:25

I'm surprised every time a journalist is shocked at someone protecting their own life or property by deadly means.

Protection the life of me and mine with deadly mean I can justify. Protecting property (a tv, a bike or.. something else?) is something I struggle with and disagree.

What property did you have in mind - are we talking especially valuable property? Real property (i.e.a house or land) or something else?

History shows if you don't accept 'use of deadly force' you end up subject to the whims of criminals. I guess that's why society in this country is now at the hands of the criminal.

I think you're describing the initial steps of an arms race. Wile we do need the right to defend ourselves (and certainly more than we're allowed to in NZ) I think to promote the use of deadly force on such a simple premise is foolhardy.

The right to own and use a gun must be accompanied by the skill to use it and the accountability of using it. No matter who it is (Police, Civvy or anyone in between) they betten have a bloody good reason to take the life of another.

"He was taking my TV" ain't even CLOSE. "I was under the strong impression I/person xyz was about to die" is ok

NOWOOL

4th November 2008, 16:16

'Property' is included in US law for two reasons. the first being protection of theft of property over $1500 dollars. Without a definition or valuation on property the term property could also apply to another person's life or injury or rape. The termination of allowing property was introduced at a time in history when the loss of property or a slave, worker, horse, etc could become a life or death situation for the person wronged. Also, just because someone breaks into your house to commit a burglary does not mean just because they want your TV doesn't mean they won't kill any witnesses (which happens all to often). many murders happen during the course of robberies. Interestingly, NZ never had a bank robbery until the year the death sentenced was abolished.

As far as your concern that it "would lead to an arms race", up until modern times it was the law of the land and didn't add to murders or crimes. In fact, NZ has a much higher crime and murder rate than other countries that allow firearms for self defence. The murder rate in NZ is 9 times that per capita than in the US.

ManDownUnder

4th November 2008, 16:24

As far as your concern that it "would lead to an arms race", up until modern times it was the law of the land and didn't add to murders or crimes. In fact, NZ has a much higher crime and murder rate than other countries that allow firearms for self defence. The murder rate in NZ is 9 times that per capita than in the US.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate

Please - continue. I'm fascinated.

Hitcher

4th November 2008, 16:30

As a US ex-pat firearms are part of my life. I love shooting, repairing and designing guns. For me firearms are a tool. Along with that I consider them a tool for self-defence (something NZ has yet to catch up on). I'm surprised every time a journalist is shocked at someone protecting their own life or property by deadly means. History shows if you don't accept 'use of deadly force' you end up subject to the whims of criminals. I guess that's why society in this country is now at the hands of the criminal.

If you shoot someone blame it on being on crack at the time and you'll get community service!

As a US ex-pat I'm prepared to forgive you for your blinkered and reactionary approach. Firearms are not a "tool". They are a means of killing things, either for recreational purposes or with malice aforethough. It is the USA that needs to catch up with the rest of the developed world on this matter, not the converse. Protecting one's life (and even worse, property) with deadly force is a matter for the Courts to deal with, and should not be mandated to people to dispense as and when they see fit. History does not show that eschewing deadly force leads to rampant crime and moral decay, just has history shows that Iraq was not involved in 9/11 nor did it have weapons of mass destruction. New Zealand is no more in the "hands of criminals" than is the US of A, in fact arguably less so.

People who live here need to respect our laws and values. If they hanker for the right to gun down whomsoever they wish at the flimsiest of excuses, then they should move to a jurisdiction that encourages such practices.

scumdog

4th November 2008, 16:51

As a US ex-pat I'm prepared to forgive you for your blinkered and reactionary approach. Firearms are not a "tool". They are a means of killing things,

Not totally for this boy - they're a fun thing, good to use for shits and giggles as well as hunting

Sorta like a Hyabusa or a GT40, not essential but fun to use..

Sure, I DO kill things - some deserved to die less than some 'humans' in this country but it keeps my larder full. (well right now it's a tad depleted - gotta get out there and kill something)

sAsLEX

4th November 2008, 18:53

Protecting one's life (and even worse, property) with deadly force is a matter for the Courts to deal with, and should not be mandated to people to dispense as and when they see fit.

People who live here need to respect our laws and values. If they hanker for the right to gun down whomsoever they wish at the flimsiest of excuses, then they should move to a jurisdiction that encourages such practices.

So 3 criminals break into your house high on P do you just sit back and rest on the courts laurels ?

In NZ is lethal force actually illegal ?

As long as you match threat to force anything goes.....?

And protecting ones family is not something I would view as a flimsy excuse.

hospitalfood

4th November 2008, 19:13

to change the subject slightly
we call them firearms
the army calls them weapons

a young friend ( with FAL ) recently joined the army and he gets told off for calling them firearms, probably had to do 100 push-ups

Hitcher

4th November 2008, 19:23

So 3 criminals break into your house high on P do you just sit back and rest on the courts laurels ?

In NZ is lethal force actually illegal ?

As long as you match threat to force anything goes.....?

And protecting ones family is not something I would view as a flimsy excuse.

Three criminals high on P break into my house. "Hang on a second," says I, "while I go and get my Sig Sauer 1911 out of the kitchen drawer."

"Hang on a second," says I, "while I go and get my Leatherman knife with gut hook out of the boot of the car."

"Hang on a second," says I, while I throw the remote control, the cat and glass of Talisker 16 at them, whilst making a dive through the window, more likely.

Extravagant scenarios do not usefully frame the issue here.

But I will play along with this and see where it goes. Now where were we... That's right, I am sitting in the comfort of my TV room which has recently been infiltrated by three gentlemen off their heads under the influence of P who clearly wish to drink my scotch, smash up my belongings and sodomise me while they watch the last episode of Downsize me on TV3.

But I am prepared for them. Little do they know that beneath the copy of The Listener on my lap is a Sig Sauer 1911 with eight rounds of hollow points in its clip and the safety off.

"Fuck off," says I. "I've just missed an easy salad recipe."

"Yeah fuck you," sneers the largest and most off-his-headed one, displaying a terrifying command of the English language.

"Bang, bang, bang!" goes the Sig.

Thud, thud, thud go the P-brains.

Meanwhile, I've got brains and various body parts splattered all over the TV and up the walls, and blood is starting to make a nasty mess of the carpet.

"Dial 111!" says I to self. "I hope the fuzz get here soon or I'll have to tape House."

The Fuzz duly arrive. I am duly charged with possession of a particularly nasty firearm, discharging it with intent to injure, use of excessive force and other sundry related matters.

Eventually I stand trial, as indeed I should and as I deserve.

scumdog

4th November 2008, 19:26

.

"Bang, bang, bang!" goes the Sig.

Eventually I stand trial, as indeed I should and as I deserve.

But think of the misery you will have saved other householders..;)

Hitcher

4th November 2008, 19:42

But think of the misery you will have saved other householders.

I'll get my barrister to mention that in my defence.

sAsLEX

4th November 2008, 19:47

use of excessive force

You were outnumbered, dropping them is not excessive force, in fact whilst they still present a real and present lethal threat to yourself there is no such thing as excessive force.

Golf club vs Glock?

Hitcher

4th November 2008, 20:18

Golf club vs Glock?

The golf clubs are in the basement. I don't think my visitors would welcome my exit to retrieve a lob wedge.

And what's the best way of dealing with over 15 litres of blood contamination? Will The Fuzz arrange a clean-up for me?

jrandom

4th November 2008, 20:24

Golf club vs Glock?

If I'm closer than 21 feet, and your Glock's still in its holster, Science (tm) says I should back myself with the golf club...

jrandom

4th November 2008, 20:25

And what's the best way of dealing with over 15 litres of blood contamination? Will The Fuzz arrange a clean-up for me?

Presumably your logic is that if it's your own, you won't be needing to do so much worrying about the clean-up?

sAsLEX

4th November 2008, 20:39

If I'm closer than 21 feet, and your Glock's still in its holster, Science (tm) says I should back myself with the golf club...

Well I wouldn't be using a plastic fantastic pistol , much prefer a P226, and I can fire without removing the pistol from my holster...... accurately no..... but by the time I am firing you are rather close.

sAsLEX

4th November 2008, 20:40

The golf clubs are in the basement. I don't think my visitors would welcome my exit to retrieve a lob wedge.

And what's the best way of dealing with over 15 litres of blood contamination? Will The Fuzz arrange a clean-up for me?

Use a .22 and head shots. No blood that way.

jrandom

4th November 2008, 20:42

Well I wouldn't be using a plastic fantastic pistol , much prefer a P226...

Super-duper trigger. Much nicer pistol, agreed. Only ever shot one once, mind ewe, but it was nice.

I can fire without removing the pistol from my holster...... accurately no..... but by the time I am firing you are rather close.

It's kinda academic; I don't really see myself coming at you with the club in the first place, to be honest. I'd rather bring a rifle...

Hitcher

4th November 2008, 20:45

Use a .22 and head shots. No blood that way.

So you think a 1911 may be overdoing things just a little?

sAsLEX

4th November 2008, 20:50

So you think a 1911 may be overdoing things just a little?

Depends what you had at hand.

One has to look at the defences open to you.

scumdog

4th November 2008, 20:52

Well I wouldn't be using a plastic fantastic pistol , much prefer a P226, and I can fire without removing the pistol from my holster...... accurately no..... but by the time I am firing you are rather close.

Gimme the Glock - lotsa bullets and no safeties or hammers etc to worry about.

Slam in a full mag, rack it and go..:woohoo:

Monamie

4th November 2008, 20:54

So you think a 1911 may be overdoing things just a little?

Just a little...and you have to wait until next week to see what happens in House:yes::sweatdrop:;)

sAsLEX

4th November 2008, 20:55

Gimme the Glock - lotsa bullets and no safeties or hammers etc to worry about.

Slam in a full mag, rack it and go..:woohoo:

Umm no safety on the Sig either, and nicer to shoot, just a slightly heavy first pull then back to a nice light trigger.

jrandom

4th November 2008, 20:55

So you think a 1911 may be overdoing things just a little?

Your 1911 obsession indicates that you really have been recently exposed to Murkn sensibilities.

Newsflash: It's called a '1911' because the design is 97 years old...

sAsLEX

4th November 2008, 20:58

Newsflash: It's called a '1911' because the design is 97 years old...

If it aint broke......

The Browning .50 cal is how old (87 years)? And have you seen a viable replacement ? Why not?

And its used by 43 odd countries.

Hitcher

4th November 2008, 21:00

Your 1911 obsession indicates that you really have been recently exposed to Murkn sensibilities.

Newsflash: It's called a '1911' because the design is 97 years old...

Style never dates. The 1911 Platinum Elite is in a class of its own. The workmanship is exemplary.

Indiana_Jones

4th November 2008, 21:11

My Nagant design is from 1891.

Still a good design :D

-Indy

jrandom

4th November 2008, 21:12

The Browning .50 cal is how old (87 years)?

I ain't falling for your strawman argument thingy; I never said Ma Deuce was broke.

I just implied that there are superior pistol designs to the 1911.

The hallmark of a good design, IMHO, is that each unit doesn't require thousands of dollars worth of precision manufacturing and/or post-purchase gunsmithing to work perfectly...

jrandom

4th November 2008, 21:13

The workmanship is exemplary.

Precisely. My point is that a 1911 just doesn't work as well as more modern pistols, which can be produced far more efficiently, unless that is the case.

jrandom

4th November 2008, 21:14

My Nagant design is from 1891.

Still a good design :D

Apart from the rimmed cartridges.

Hitcher

4th November 2008, 21:24

Precisely. My point is that a 1911 just doesn't work as well as more modern pistols, which can be produced far more efficiently, unless that is the case.

I guess 1911s (not Sigs) wouldn't still be the US Marine Corp's weapon of choice if that wasn't the case.

sAsLEX

4th November 2008, 21:33

I guess 1911s (not Sigs) wouldn't still be the US Marine Corp's weapon of choice if that wasn't the case.

I see its only the MEU that get this and the standard get the M9.....

jrandom

4th November 2008, 21:39

I guess 1911s (not Sigs) wouldn't still be the US Marine Corp's weapon of choice if that wasn't the case.

As Alex said, if anyone has it, it's just the MEUs. Although Tom Clancy, in Marine (which, being the redneck I am, happened to be sitting on the coffee table as I wrote this post) seems to think that the MEUs carry M9s just like everyone else, and the MEU (SOC) 1911A1 is issued as a 'backup weapon to recon units equipped with the MP5-N'. The Corps only maintains an inventory of 500 of them. In other words, it's not used as a standard sidearm.

However, I'd point you to the Murkn LEOs as a more relevant example. They actually have to rely on their sidearms to a far greater extent than the armed forces, and don't have the luxury of having a piece of sentimental memorabilia in their holsters or being able to spec $4,000 pistols for everybody, like some special forces units.

And I bet you can't find me a single PD that issues 1911s...

scumdog

4th November 2008, 21:47

And I bet you can't find me a single PD that issues 1911s...

A lot use 10mm Glocks, other favourite choice is 40cal of any breed.

jrandom

4th November 2008, 21:52

A lot use 10mm Glocks, other favourite choice is 40cal of any breed.

I was under the impression that the 10 was kinda dying out after the Feds decided, back in the day, that their shiny new S&W 10mm autos were too much for little girly hands, which more or less killed its raison d'être. I guess Glock can resurrect a calibre just by issuing a pistol chambered in it eh!

But, yes, the .40 seems to be the new LEO calibre du jour. And if their military wasn't restrained to NATO standards, one suspects it would have been chosen over the 9mm for the 1911's replacement. It's plainly superior.

The Pastor

4th November 2008, 21:57

My Nagant design is from 1891.

Still a good design :D

-Indy
apart from the weight, accuracy, stock design.........

jrandom

4th November 2008, 22:00

apart from the... accuracy

Tell that to Vasily Zaytsev.

pritch

5th November 2008, 07:38

Protecting one's life (and even worse, property) with deadly force is a matter for the Courts to deal with, .

Sorry wrong! Everybody has the right to protect their life, or that of their wife or child. Despite the best efforts of the politicians to date.

The Police, the Courts - and the politicians, will not be present at the time. They only become involved after the event. Better that you are the one attending the court hearing than the would-be rapist murderer or whatever.

ManDownUnder

5th November 2008, 07:57

Sorry wrong! Everybody has the right to protect their life, or that of their wife or child. Despite the best efforts of the politicians to date.

The Police, the Courts - and the politicians, will not be present at the time. They only become involved after the event. Better that you are the one attending the court hearing than the would-be rapist murderer or whatever.

I think you might both be on the same page here. I agree with Hitcher and don't expect the Courts or Police to be present. I will act according to the situation at the time but then expect to find myself accountable before the Court for what I did.

To whatever extent possible I might want to keep that in mind but given the urgency of the situation I'd likely find myself in I don't expect the courts, police, law or a whole hell of a lot to be going through my head except protecting me and mine.

Hitcher

5th November 2008, 08:05

Sorry wrong! Everybody has the right to protect their life, or that of their wife or child. Despite the best efforts of the politicians to date.

That "right" is a matter for the Courts to determine, as it should be in a "free" society. If a jury of one's peers determines that one was in the right, one will walk free. One does not have the "right" to wander around topping people who one believes to be a threat to one's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

The Pastor

5th November 2008, 08:08

Mr Merde

5th November 2008, 09:02

but i want his shoes!

Why?

From memory you prefer to not wear them.

or is it just

"because"

Wolf

5th November 2008, 11:05

Protection the life of me and mine with deadly mean I can justify. Protecting property (a tv, a bike or.. something else?) is something I struggle with and disagree.

...

The right to own and use a gun must be accompanied by the skill to use it and the accountability of using it. No matter who it is (Police, Civvy or anyone in between) they betten have a bloody good reason to take the life of another.

"He was taking my TV" ain't even CLOSE. "I was under the strong impression I/person xyz was about to die" is ok

Sorry wrong! Everybody has the right to protect their life, or that of their wife or child. Despite the best efforts of the politicians to date.

I think you might both be on the same page here. I agree with Hitcher and don't expect the Courts or Police to be present. I will act according to the situation at the time but then expect to find myself accountable before the Court for what I did.

That "right" is a matter for the Courts to determine, as it should be in a "free" society. If a jury of one's peers determines that one was in the right, one will walk free. One does not have the "right" to wander around topping people who one believes to be a threat to one's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.
Even in America, most state laws reflect that the shooter will be liable for at least a preliminary hearing to determine whether or not ther might be a case for unwarranted use of deadly force or murder - as pointed out by no lesser personage than Massad Ayoob (weapons trainer for police and civilians alike and founder of the Lethal Force Institute.)

I've read one of his books on using a firearm in self defence and he makes it quite clear that if you just pull out a weapon and blaze away at someone, you are likely to wind up in jail on a murder charge. His Institute spends a considerable chunk of its course instructing trainees in the law and so far none of his graduates have ever been convicted of inappropriate use of deadly force because they are aware of the ramifications and ensure that when they do resort to lethal means of self-defence, they are in a position to successfully defend that action - and have done so.

There's the old NRA bumper sticker (and t-shirt, wall sign etc etc) "I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six" which testifies to the outcome of resorting to the use of firearms in self-defense.

Sadly, not everyone stops to consider if the situation really does warrant the use of lethal means. Usually, the juries have no difficulty in coming to that conclusion and the trigger-happy person faces the consequences.

Here, "shoot to kill" is not permitted - if you say you intended to kill your attacker, you are facing a murder charge, even if you quite justifiably had reason to believe your life (or that of someone else) was in danger and the use of a firearm was actually warranted.

Here, it's "shoot to stop" - even for the police. Shooting to stop entails a bullet or two to the centre of mass (torso) - which may actually kill the person but there's also a chance of survival. The idea is that the intent is not to kill but to make the person break off their attack.

ManDownUnder

5th November 2008, 11:32

Sadly, not everyone stops to consider if the situation really does warrant the use of lethal means.

...

Here, it's "shoot to stop" - even for the police. Shooting to stop entails a bullet or two to the centre of mass (torso) - which may actually kill the person but there's also a chance of survival. The idea is that the intent is not to kill but to make the person break off their attack.

Noted and thanks - that clarified a few things for me. I always had that concept but my choice of words was poor.

:niceone:

pritch

5th November 2008, 11:55

That "right" is a matter for the Courts to determine, as it should be in a "free" society. .

Times have changed.

There have been instances in this country where a homeowner has shot an intruder (non-fatal) and no prosecution followed. Which was entirely appropriate in the circumstances.

The circumstances where self defence can be justified though are limited:
You can't go anywhere with a gun, you'd need to be inside the house.
You can't shoot the intruder in the back and realistically claim you were in fear of your life.
You can't tell people in advance that you are going to shoot the next intruder, (as happened in recent years in Britain).

As a farmer once said to me, "I'm fifty minutes from town, if anything happens it'll be over before the Police get here. I'm going to be the one standing here to tell them about it."

Wolf

5th November 2008, 14:05

Times have changed.

There have been instances in this country where a homeowner has shot an intruder (non-fatal) and no prosecution followed. Which was entirely appropriate in the circumstances.
No prosecution may have resulted but it generally takes a trial by jury to determine that the actions were appropriate in the circumstances.

The circumstances where self defence can be justified though are limited:
You can't go anywhere with a gun, you'd need to be inside the house.
And then there's the whole "firearm, bolt and ammunition are to be stored separately under lock and key" thing to be gotten around. You might successfully demonstrate to a jury that the circumstances dictated "shooting to stop" but still wind up in a power of shit for having a loaded firearm in such a location as to be easily accessed. A prosecution lawyer would be sure to make a meal of that one and probably try to claim "premeditation" (therefore murder) on your part. Even if you get off "premeditated murder", failure to store the firearm as per the law is still an offence.

You can't shoot the intruder in the back and realistically claim you were in fear of your life.
Natch. Pretty hard to claim he's a threat to life and limb when he's not even looking at you.

You can't tell people in advance that you are going to shoot the next intruder, (as happened in recent years in Britain).
Sufficient grounds for a charge of premeditated murder. Likewise in the States it's not wise to mouth off about "drop guns" (ones you plant on a person you just killed in error so you can claim you were right in your fear that he was reaching for a pistol) as that's exactly the sort of thing that gets brought up at your trial...

Hitcher

5th November 2008, 14:08

There have been instances in this country where a homeowner has shot an intruder (non-fatal) and no prosecution followed. Which was entirely appropriate in the circumstances.

Really? When?

sAsLEX

5th November 2008, 16:23

Here, "shoot to kill" is not permitted

CoM is so they don't miss. An armed suspect is a threat until he stops breathing,twitching or anything until that weapon is out of his hand.

And then there's the whole "firearm, bolt and ammunition are to be stored separately under lock and key" thing to be gotten around.

A lot of us have firearms as a hobby. It would not be unusual to have a weapon out for cleaning, maintenance, loading rounds etc

sAsLEX

5th November 2008, 16:26

That "right" is a matter for the Courts to determine, as it should be in a "free" society. If a jury of one's peers determines that one was in the right, one will walk free. One does not have the "right" to wander around topping people who one believes to be a threat to one's life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.

Shouldn't law determine what is our "right"? Rather than a group of 12 possibly inept emotional beings passing on their interpretations of your "right"?

The jury then decides if what you did was within the law.

Hitcher

5th November 2008, 17:07

Shouldn't law determine what is our "right"? Rather than a group of 12 possibly inept emotional beings passing on their interpretations of your "right"?

The jury then decides if what you did was within the law.

The "law" is just tablets of stone. Somebody has to interpret and apply it to certain circumstances. In this case the Courts fill that role. If you were successful in getting our justice system changed then perhaps a High Priest or Shaman could do it instead.

sAsLEX

5th November 2008, 17:20

The "law" is just tablets of stone. Somebody has to interpret and apply it to certain circumstances. In this case the Courts fill that role. If you were successful in getting our justice system changed then perhaps a High Priest or Shaman could do it instead.

Agreed. But if the law states "Self defence using lethal force blah blah........ " then the police can determine if it is worth charging the person and taking it into the "Justice"/Court system.

Indiana_Jones

5th November 2008, 17:24

Enough law talk!

pics of guns!

-Indy

doc

5th November 2008, 17:38

Shouldn't law determine what is our "right"? Rather than a group of 12 possibly inept emotional beings passing on their interpretations of your "right"?

The jury then decides if what you did was within the law.

Loosely interpreted the "Rules of engagement" are "It is beter to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
Wouldn't you rather be wrong than "dead right" ;)

Indiana_Jones

5th November 2008, 18:42

<img src="http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5945958,00.jpg">

-Indy

sAsLEX

5th November 2008, 20:03

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/images/1892-winchester-src-antique-2/1892-winchester-src-antique-2%20(5).jpg

Pick it up shortly.

-sAs

Mr Merde

5th November 2008, 20:49

http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/images/1892-winchester-src-antique-2/1892-winchester-src-antique-2%20(5).jpg

Pick it up shortly.

-sAs

Have you bought this?

A very nice Winchester 1892 carbine. What caliber?

Chris

sAsLEX

5th November 2008, 21:18

Inherited.

38-40.

pritch

5th November 2008, 21:23

Really? When?

Quite a few years ago now. One of the really lawless parts of the country.
I seem to recall it might have been Ngaio. And no! I'm not joking.

The guy had rung the Police twice reporting gang activity, the Police didn't come. ("Run to a fire, walk to a fight"???) The home owner (a pistol club member) told the lead gang member to stop or he would fire. The gang leader laughed and kept coming. Bang!

Was all on the news including wounded gang leader in hospital saying, "I'll sue".
I guess somebody had to explain to him about ACC.

The Police position where they prosecute any and everything is a relatively recent thing which I think dates back to a non-prosecution for a serious driving offence which killed four(?) young women way down south. This particular incident also lead to the formation of crash investigation units which operate independently of the local constabulary.

My short term memory might be getting ragged but the long term stuff isn't too bad yet... I hope.

Mr Merde

5th November 2008, 21:33

Inherited.

38-40.

I am so green with envy.

You have to bring it to show me so that I can drool over it.

Have to find you some brass now and a mould to throw the right projectile.

Probably somewhere round the 180gn mark as it is a .40 caliber.

35 grains of the black powder.

Not sure if I would fire modern propellant in it.

made about 1910?

Chris

pete376403

5th November 2008, 21:36

Inherited.

38-40.My dad had one a bit like that, 32-20 calibre and the magazine only extended as far as the wood, not right to the end of the barrel. I used to get it out of the wardrobe and play cowboys (when he wasn't home)

As I got older I had hopes of getting to own it, but came home one day and found it had been sold - I was so pissed off. If I recall correctly it had the image of a hornet or wasp and 'Stinger" stamped into the metal.

pritch

5th November 2008, 21:46

And then there's the whole "firearm, bolt and ammunition are to be stored separately under lock and key" thing to be gotten around. <snip> Even if you get off "premeditated murder", failure to store the firearm as per the law is still an offence.

You make it far too complicated. You are permitted to have a firearm in the room with you. As long as it is under your direct supervision.

When I was shooting competitively there would be a firearm within easy reach during the hours I was training which was a large part of the evening, most evenings. All entirely legal.

When at one point I wanted to do some training in my yard I made sure the local arms officer knew what I was up to prior to the time.

Farmers do this all the time too, the rifle's no good in a cabinet if you've got a possum on the roof...

sAsLEX

5th November 2008, 21:56

made about 1910?

Chris

Apparently, but I shall let you and your buddies expert gaze upon it.

The 210 kit here is looking like it would be a good start for the .308 and the .40 ? http://www.outdoorsupplies.co.nz/leereload3.htm#reload

jrandom

6th November 2008, 07:14

When I was shooting competitively there would be a firearm within easy reach during the hours I was training which was a large part of the evening, most evenings. All entirely legal.

:yes:

Shortland Street becomes almost bearable when used for dry-firing practice from an armchair.

Wolf

6th November 2008, 08:13

You make it far too complicated. You are permitted to have a firearm in the room with you. As long as it is under your direct supervision.
Methinks we're imagining different scenarios. I was thinking more along the lines of being in bed and asleep when the intruders come in.

"So, let me see if we understand you: At the time the intruders entered, you "just happened to be" cleaning your rifle and checking your ammunition... in your pyjamas... in your bedroom... at 3:30 in the morning... with all the lights off..."

:yes:

Shortland Street becomes almost bearable when used for dry-firing practice from an armchair.
You too, huh?

Mr Merde

6th November 2008, 08:51

Methinks we're imagining different scenarios. I was thinking more along the lines of being in bed and asleep when the intruders come in.

"So, let me see if we understand you: At the time the intruders entered, you "just happened to be" cleaning your rifle and checking your ammunition... in your pyjamas... in your bedroom... at 3:30 in the morning... with all the lights off..."

You too, huh?

Many years ago, in a country whose initials begin with the letters UK, I was cleaningall my pistols at 2 am one night when I happened to glance out of the window and saw someone inside my wifes car, which was parked in our driveway.

I picked up my S & W 686 and went out the back door, over the neighbours fence and crept along below the level of the fence.

When I reached the spot beside the drivers door I stood up.

Theperson was just sitting up after having ripped out all the wires from the ignition.

I carefully raised the pistol , unnoticed by the person trying to "borrow: the car, and as he sat up I cocked the hammer.

He turned around at the sound of this and went the palest of colours I have ever seen. Staring down the barrel of a .357 only inches from his head.

He shit himself and tried to weazel out of the situation. I alllowed him to go but warned him I knew where he lived (checked his wallet for address).

The next day I spoke to a mate of mine who was the sargent of police in the town this kid was from.

Kevin ( the sargent) pissed himself with laughter and commented that his village now had one less car theif to contend with.

In this case the threat of lethal violence worked.

Swoop

6th November 2008, 12:42

Quite a few years ago now.
There was a similar (same?) scenario.
Homeowner at the door with a .22 in one hand and a .357(?) in the other.
Shoots the person being a threat, with the .22.

States in court that he used the minimum force available to him at the time.

ManDownUnder

6th November 2008, 12:50

There was a similar (same?) scenario.
Homeowner at the door with a .22 in one hand and a .357(?) in the other.
Shoots the person being a threat, with the .22.

States in court that he used the minimum force available to him at the time.

Unless there's more to it than that... I'm guess he tried shouting, and had considered a kick in the balls first?

Were the guns "ready to use" - i.e. a round chambered, cocked etc? That sounds remarkably premeditated to me if so. "I happened to have two cocked guns in my hand m'lud and the bloke shows up at the door mouthing off at me". Sounds like a tui ad to me...

pritch

6th November 2008, 19:31

Unless there's more to it than that... I'm guess he tried shouting, and had considered a kick in the balls first?

As a former soldier I'm very impressed by your attitude.
You're prepared to shout at numerous assembled members of the Mongrel Mob intent on trouble, and singlehandedly attempt to kick them in their collective gonads. I'm sure the Army could use talent like that. You'd be a certainty to get decorated. Posthumously of course... :whistle:

Were the guns "ready to use" - i.e. a round chambered, cocked etc? That sounds remarkably premeditated to me if so.

Threatening the Mob with an unloaded gun would definitely be the wrong side of the line dividing brave and stupid. Swoop's case sounds similar enough to be the same one. The reports said although he had more powerful weapons (non-specific), he used a 22. He shot the guy in the leg. In the circumstances that all comes under the heading "reasonable force". It's a number of years ago but I'm pretty sure it never went to court. Why would it?

With his single bullet he brought (quite lengthy) proceedings to a close. Had the single bullet not done the job we may just have found out what else he had to hand. Then it still would have, in all liklihood, been reasonable force.