The firearm thread

[Swoop]

I looked into the MSSA (Military Style Semi Auto, Category E) licencing requirements and they did not seem to differ much from the original requirements for a Collector's licence (Category "C") and I was wondering if the requirements for a collector's licence had been made harder, else why go through all that to get an "E" for mean-looking semiautos when you could get a "C" for real autos.

Perhaps there are those here who are more up with the comparisons between E and C licencing requirements and restrictions.
Storage requirements are exactly the same. Getting a C is quite an involved process since you need to have a bonafied "interest" in what you would collect.
It (C Vs E) depends if you want to shoot the firearm or not!

[Wolf]

Storage requirements are exactly the same. Getting a C is quite an involved process since you need to have a bonafied "interest" in what you would collect.
It (C Vs E) depends if you want to shoot the firearm or not!

Cheers for the clarification. I'd looked into category C requirements and when the E cat came in it seemed the same - signed permission slip from a god or at least three of the Titans etc - so I was wondering what the difference was.

Think I'll stick with Cat A and later (when I can afford the time) B.

The MSSA requirements meant two of my friends had to heavily modify their firearms to "not-so-mean-looking". (.22lr Stirling M16-lookalike and a FAL)

Fortunately for me, my SKS only required the mag cut down, Vern Wilson did a good job on that cheaply. I'd already removed the bayonet lug as it was an annoyance and it had a "classic" stock already.

[pritch]

It (C Vs E) depends if you want to shoot the firearm or not!

Exactly. C cat firearms should be stored disabled, simply removing a part and storing it separately will do. The firearm does not need to be mutilated.

MSSAs and full auto weapons held on a C licence may not be fired. Period!

I think the current Police interpretation is that only holders of an E cat licence may fire an MSSA. It is not legal to let a friend with a A cat licence fire your MSSA.

[Mr Merde]

....I think the current Police interpretation is that only holders of an E cat licence may fire an MSSA. It is not legal to let a friend with a A cat licence fire your MSSA.

This is correct.

Its one of the rules that are being looked at in the latest round of police recommendations.

Actually allowing people to use MMSA under supervision.

[Wolf]

Actually allowing people to use MMSA under supervision.
Considering we're allowed to supervise unlicensed minors using an A-cat weapon if we hold an A-class licence and you can use a pistol at the range with only a category A licence, that might make a bit more sense than the current law...

Are MSSAs so mean-looking that an unlicensed person shooting one under direct supervision is likely to terrorise an entire town?

I reckon there should be proper ranges set up so that collectors can actually fire their weapons - if someone is licensed to own a full-auto weapon and wants to burn an entire box of ammo in a few seconds, they should be able to do it.

[Storm]

if someone is licensed to own a full-auto weapon and wants to burn an entire box of ammo in a few seconds, they should be able to do it.

Wolf for PM- I havent heard so much sense in donkeys years! Well done that man:D:D

Course, I could be saying that because I am an army geek and every exercise I manage to get on, theres usually a couple of mags cleared out in short order at some point in the ex. PB was seven mags at a time:first:

[The Lone Rider]

You should see the browning .30 cal and the .50 cal barrett clone a guy I know has. Now there's some tough bannanas. The backfire from the .50 cal alone blew his hat clean off his head.

But yeah, not entirely legal shooting some of that hardware.

[Mr Merde]

Considering we're allowed to supervise unlicensed minors using an A-cat weapon if we hold an A-class licence and you can use a pistol at the range with only a category A licence, that might make a bit more sense than the current law...

Are MSSAs so mean-looking that an unlicensed person shooting one under direct supervision is likely to terrorise an entire town?

I reckon there should be proper ranges set up so that collectors can actually fire their weapons - if someone is licensed to own a full-auto weapon and wants to burn an entire box of ammo in a few seconds, they should be able to do it.

Thoughts similar to my own.

I have taught a few persons how to shoot with a pistol. Most of them didnt even hold an A cat licence but if I wanted to teach someone to shoot one of these nasty looking military firearms then they must already hold the E cat licence.

On a similar theme. If you have a Ruger 10/22 with a 10 round mag it is A cat but if you put a 25 round mag in it you have immediately changed it to an E cat and you better have registered it as such or you are a criminal of the first degree. A real anti social, child eating, redneck killer who deserves to have the full weight of the law descend upon you with all its force. :nono:

Yes, some place where you can LEGALLY fire full auto would be great but unfortunately us poor civilians asre not to be trusted by our masters so this will never happen.

Mr :shit:

[sAsLEX]

I think the current Police interpretation is that only holders of an E cat licence may fire an MSSA. It is not legal to let a friend with a A cat licence fire your MSSA.

Unless you sign up.




Actually allowing people to use MMSA under supervision.

Makes sense I fired a machine gun (C9) when I was 15, legality of that?? Was I going to kill anyone? Well if those horse didn't clear the range......



Yes, some place where you can LEGALLY fire full auto would be great but unfortunately us poor civilians asre not to be trusted by our masters so this will never happen.



I have fired full auto in controlled condition as a civilian, and now its part of my training...... just join up!

YVAN EHT NIOJ, YVAN EHT NIOJ!

[Mr Merde]

.......
I have fired full auto in controlled condition as a civilian, and now its part of my training...... just join up!

YVAN EHT NIOJ, YVAN EHT NIOJ!


Too old now my friend. Been a 5 mile sniper, been delivered by air, played with lots of toys.

[Wolf]

Yes, some place where you can LEGALLY fire full auto would be great but unfortunately us poor civilians asre not to be trusted by our masters so this will never happen.
It wouldn't be too hard to set up - we have shit-loads of firearms ranges around the country with nice safe back-stops and extra pepperoni.

They could have a "full-auto day" once a month for the collectors to bring their toys in and cut loose without throwing the pistol or rifle shooters off their game.

What I'd love to see is something like a range I heard of in the States - they have a specially set-up range where you can set up (as a target) any bit of technology that's fucked you off (computer, monitor, TV, hard disc etc) and blow the shit out of it with the firearm of your choice.

The range rents out a variety of weapons from pistols to shotguns to submachineguns - makes an utter fortune out of people who've had a gutsful of faulty equipment.

Full safety gear, controlled conditions and supervision - with a price-tag to match...

[Wolf]

I have fired full auto in controlled condition as a civilian, and now its part of my training...... just join up!
Wot, and 'ave some soft-cock akin to Bill English get elected and then get sent off to war to aid whoever it is the PM's giving a BJ to that month?


YVAN EHT NIOJ, YVAN EHT NIOJ!
Backmasked subliminals won't work on me!

Besides, at 43 I doubt I'm what they're looking for as a new recruit...

[inlinefour]

A popular thread (http://www.sv-portal.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22615) on my SV site, so will try it here. Let me know if I missed any options in the poll.

This is just for talking about firearms, not the rights and wrongs of firearm ownership.

Anyone know who the NZ browning importer is? I need an extractor spring for an auto-22.

Just for interest of others, the NZ Police have stated reciently to me that soonish a fire arms licience will be required to own a slug weapon due to all the idiots out there doing idiotic things with them. I actualy had the Police in giving me a talking to while I was in Burwood Spinal Unit, due to buying online a target air pistol and a replica Last Samarai sword. The fact is that society is now paranoid as fark due to the minority being tards...:angry:

[ManDownUnder]

Just for interest of others, the NZ Police have stated reciently to me that soonish a fire arms licience will be required to own a slug weapon due to all the idiots out there doing idiotic things with them. I actualy had the Police in giving me a talking to while I was in Burwood Spinal Unit, due to buying online a target air pistol and a replica Last Samarai sword. The fact is that society is now paranoid as fark due to the minority being tards...:angry:

Actually I'm in favour of it too. 1000fps does a lot of damage. I got the shits a while back in a Central Auckland gun shop when a couple of "less-than-perfectly-desirables" entered the shop looking for the smallest, most powerful air pistol combo.

They were a pack of wannabe gansters I wouldn't trust with a butterknife - let alone something silent, menacing, albeit with on a modest amount of power...

I'd also like to see all air pistols and airifles somehow made obvious (i.e. paint them safety orange or... I dunno). The AOS must have a bitch of a time when facing someone carrying a glock... unsure if it's the high velocity kind... or the 300fps type.

[Wolf]

I'd also like to see all air pistols and airifles somehow made obvious (i.e. paint them safety orange or... I dunno). The AOS must have a bitch of a time when facing someone carrying a glock... unsure if it's the high velocity kind... or the 300fps type.
According to some on-line catalogues, there are releases of the soft-air guns with bright red or orange muzzles to denote "TOY" - presumably for jurisdictions where such things must be clearly identifiable.

Of course, not a lot of good in dark area where colour vision is diminished - even red looks dark.

The bright coloured ones are not great for the likes of myself - I buy the plastic fantastics as ersatz "collector" pieces - I get something that looks very like the real McCoy but doesn't cost as much.

The thing is: I practically have to store them as if they were the real McCoy

[Swoop]

I'd also like to see all air pistols and airifles somehow made obvious (i.e. paint them safety orange or... I dunno). The AOS must have a bitch of a time when facing someone carrying a glock... unsure if it's the high velocity kind... or the 300fps type.
Those that can be purchased at a toy shop, do match that method of identification (red muzzle).
The airguns are a bit different and are intended to look as real as possible.
Unfortunately the "wannabe gangsta homo's" like them as well...
If the AOS shoot one of these morons, while said moron was displaying it in a public place, I will be very grateful.

[Wolf]

If the AOS shoot one of these morons, while said moron was displaying it in a public place, I will be very grateful.
Happened in Aucks a few years back - moron brandishes replica soft-air Glock, is challenged by AOS, refuses to relinquish pistol, points it at them. Is shot in leg, refuses to relinquish, wounded again, still refuses to relinquish, shot and killed.

Big hu et cri by Joe Random Dickhead about the cops killing a guy with a toy.

Paper publishes side-by-side pics of soft-air Glock and real police issue Glock - camera is a lot closer than the cops were in the situation. 9 out of 10 people I showed the pic to thought the real Glock was the toy. I think #10 was a lucky guess.

Spoke with someone who actually knew the guy who was killed - the person I spoke to reckonned he (the deceased) was a fucking retard and deserved to be shot...

The world I live in, if you present what looks like a real firearm, you can expect to be treated as if it is real - AOS response and being shot at by real weapons. If you're lucky enough to survive expect prosecution for presenting a loaded firearm. That has been the law since forever, I know and understand it and act accordingly - I don't brandish toy (or any other) firearms...

[Swoop]

The world I live in, if you present what looks like a real firearm, you can expect to be treated as if it is real - AOS response and being shot at by real weapons.
I've only had two pointed at me. One was definately real, the other was definately a toy!
The ex used to work teller duty at a large bank, and was looking down the barrel of a sawnoff shotgun one day. She was NOT amused!:angry:

[Wolf]

I've only had two pointed at me. One was definately real, the other was definately a toy!
The ex used to work teller duty at a large bank, and was looking down the barrel of a sawnoff shotgun one day. She was NOT amused!:angry:
Never had the misfortune of staring down the business end of a firearm, it is doubtless very unpleasant.

Would certainly not shed a tear if the AOS blew the bastard away afterwards.

The thing that surprises me about the case I quoted:

I thought SOP for the AOS was "shoot to stop" - why the fuck did they wound him twice - especially since he kept pointing the pistol at them after wounded. If it had been a real firearm he could have killed one of them.

The shot should have been into the CoM the moment he turned the weapon on them. If he lives, fine - prosecute. If he dies, who cares?

[The Lone Rider]

Those orange tips come off or are just painted over the edge. They are for american sales, and only for shipping (so that postal services know they are dealing with a toy, not real)

As for replica's, if you have one and brandish or walk around with it in public, you are well aware of what other peoples reactions are and should be no issue if AOS shoot you.

Are the laws going to be for slug guns, or soft air guns? Soft air guns are made to look realistic due to mainly being made and used for Airsoft which is a hugely competitive sport overseas and in NZ it's shall we say.. very fragmented in who plays the sport.

Ban them all I say. Or make them all licensed weapons. If you can afford Gun City prices, you can afford a license hahahahahaha

[Drunken Monkey]

I thought SOP for the AOS was "shoot to stop" - why the fuck did they wound him twice - especially since he kept pointing the pistol at them after wounded. If it had been a real firearm he could have killed one of them.

Just because an officer shoots with the intent to stop, it doesn't mean the result can't be a wound. C'mon, we should all know that. I've never shot a goat, rabbit or possum with the intent to wound - if I was good enough to head shot them every time, I probably would. As it stands, sometimes you just don't kill them first time.

[sAsLEX]

Just because an officer shoots with the intent to stop, it doesn't mean the result can't be a wound. C'mon, we should all know that. I've never shot a goat, rabbit or possum with the intent to wound - if I was good enough to head shot them every time, I probably would. As it stands, sometimes you just don't kill them first time.

Legs are a long way off the CoM..... and AOS should be relatively accurate shots with rifles...the head is a smaller target than a leg most of the time...

[Drunken Monkey]

Legs are a long way off the CoM..... and AOS should be relatively accurate shots with rifles...the head is a smaller target than a leg most of the time...

Relatively accurate isn't the same as accurate.

Are you saying saying they're all perfect shots and NEVER miss their targets, no matter what the shooting conditions?

[scumdog]

I'd also like to see all air pistols and airifles somehow made obvious (i.e. paint them safety orange or... I dunno). The AOS must have a bitch of a time when facing someone carrying a glock... unsure if it's the high velocity kind... or the 300fps type.

Piss-off, the wannabe ganstas would paint 'em semi-gloss black - and anyway, only a 'tard would front up AOS with a replices, Darwins genetic selection at its best!!!:yes:

Wouldn't worry me for a second if I had to waste a loser that did a stand-off face-to-face with me and he only had a replica, I ain't taking the chance that it IS a replica.

[ManDownUnder]

Piss-off, the wannabe ganstas would paint 'em semi-gloss black - and anyway, only a 'tard would front up AOS with a replices, Darwins genetic selection at its best!!!:yes:

Wouldn't worry me for a second if I had to waste a loser that did a stand-off face-to-face with me and he only had a replica, I ain't taking the chance that it IS a replica.

Agreed but in the hands of a... 12 year old... or 14 year old... ?

Dunno - I hear what you're saying - and agree but the ambiguous situations will be the test and an innocent/ignorant life could be lost. That's be the shame for me...

[Sniper]

I own a variety of air guns just to collect them. Things looked so real that I had to prove to the firearms officer who came to inspect my safe ect that it is just a toy G36 and I dont keep a mag loaded for it all the time.

[scumdog]

I own a variety of air guns just to collect them. Things looked so real that I had to prove to the firearms officer who came to inspect my safe ect that it is just a toy G36 and I dont keep a mag loaded for it all the time.

Just don't take the chance and point the sucker at me dude!!!

Pfft vs Kapow = SOMEBODY dead!:yes:

[Sniper]

Just don't take the chance and point the sucker at me dude!!!

Pfft vs Kapow = SOMEBODY dead!:yes:


Trust me matey, I dont run around pointing firearms at people (Fake or otherwise). Ive seen when it goes wrong....

[scumdog]

Trust me matey, I dont run around pointing firearms at people (Fake or otherwise). Ive seen when it goes wrong....

Yeah but YOU haven't been watching too many hommie gansta movies where they hold the pistols on their sides!!

FFS If God had meant for pistols to be fired that way the sights would be on the side of the slide!!)

[Mr Merde]

A little bored this week so I rumaged aroud in my collection of older books.

WHat have I found.

A copy of Ed McGivern's book

"Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting"

Originally written in 1936.

Wow what a man. What a pistol shooter. His tips and advice are as relevant today as they were then.

I think its time to hit all the others I have.


Learn from the past.


BTW For those who didnt know.

Ed McGivern holds the record for the fastest use of a revolver.
He shot a double action revolver at a target 10 feet from him, six times. All the shots were in a 1" hole and the time taken to do this

45/100ths of a second. Thats less than half a second for six shots, double action. Faster than a lot of machine guns.

As far as I know this stilll hasnt been beaten

[sAsLEX]

Yeah but YOU haven't been watching too many hommie gansta movies where they hold the pistols on their sides!!

FFS If God had meant for pistols to be fired that way the sights would be on the side of the slide!!)

<img src=http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2006/08/22/sideways_gun_sight.jpg>

[Wolf]

I own a variety of air guns just to collect them. Things looked so real that I had to prove to the firearms officer who came to inspect my safe ect that it is just a toy G36 and I dont keep a mag loaded for it all the time.
I've got a metal (zinc alloy) replica that also feels like the real McCoy and I had to demonstrate to the local Arms Officer that the barrel is blocked and the breech block doesn't even have a hole for a firing pin and had to explain that the metal was so soft a .22 round would blow it to bits in your hand.

He was most amazed that it was only a non-firing replica.

Best ever was when I had two plastic kitset pistols I had put together - 1:1 scale, very accurate - down to having a functioning mag and plastic bullets that could be chambered.

I had taken them over to a friend's place to show them off and was returning home when I was stopped and questioned by a couple of cops.

OK, so I'm dressed all in black and carrying a black pack but it's not night time yet so I'm a trifle surprised to be stopped.

"Can you come here please"/"Yes, Officer, how can I help you?"/"What's your name? Where do you live?" dialogue ensues.

After learning who I was, where I lived, where I'd been and where I was going, the cop in the passenger seat asked what I had in the bag and then, while I was saying "Kitsets, but you might be surprised at the nature of them", he elected to crack wise and speak over my words, saying "Could you show me what's in it, wouldn't want to find it full of burglarious instruments" then laughed.

Now, I knew that he hadn't heard my answer but I thought "fuck it, I'm not repeating myself."

I reached into the pack, located a very reaistic-looking Colt M1911 by feel, turned it in my hand so the barrel was pointing away from the car and withdrew it. I presented it to him lying on my open flat palm, grip towards him, barrel pointed off past me.

Now I could see into the car as I was standing outside.

His hand made several false starts as he went to reach for it then had a moment of indecision, clearly unsure if I was willing to surrender a firearm to him without some kind of catch. His eyes were wide and the look on his face was brilliant!

Finally he reached up, took the grip and lifted it from my hand - with sufficient force to lift a metal pistol.
Not surprisingly his hand shot up as the pistol was light plastic.

While he's inspecting it, I reach into the pack again, extract the 1908 Luger by the barrel and pass it to the cop in the driver's seat.

The cop with the Colt watches it go past in shock then returns his attention to the Colt.

They both have a bit of a look at the pistols, cycle action, eject mags.

Cop in the passenger seat says "Wow, these are really realistic, you could pull a robbery with them if you wanted."

I reply: "Yes, but the law says that if you present something that looks like a firearm, it is deemed to be a loaded firearm and you'd wind up with the Armed Offenders Squad coming after you with real guns. I have no desire to lose my firearms licence, freedom or life."

The cop looks at me in amazement and says "Yes, that's quite right," hands the toys back and says "have a good evening sir."

Not used to people quoting sections of the Arms Act, I gather...

[BarBender]

http://www.gougoule.com/bonus/shoot.php

[sAsLEX]

http://www.gougoule.com/bonus/shoot.php

Would be impressed if he was using say <img src=http://www.fototime.com/8A0AAE25D98DD84/orig.jpg> instead of say

Total spread at 40 yds (in) 59 for 0 choke



or did I miss something on that box?

[BarBender]

Would be impressed if he was using say http://www.fototime.com/8A0AAE25D98DD84/orig.jpg instead of say

Total spread at 40 yds (in) 59 for 0 choke
or did I miss something on that box?

God would be impressed if he were using that ammo.

[sAsLEX]

God would be impressed if he were using that ammo.

you say that I have seen clips of a guy hitting an asprin lobbed into the air 50ft in front of him with a
<img src=http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/wl_gallery/90289.jpg>


Why would it be soo much harder with a powder charged weapon?

pic of another doing similar
<img src=http://www.frankaddingtonjr.com/Photo/Asprin-Arrow.jpg>


hmmm should really go back to studying Sonar...... PING!

[BarBender]

you say that I have seen clips of a guy hitting an asprin lobbed into the air 50ft in front of him with a...
Why would it be soo much harder with a powder charged weapon?


Who cares! Im impressed regardless! Is that OK?

But wow!...you've obviously seen it all.

Mama must be proud of you since you left home...
http://www.gougoule.com/muscleman/ (http://www.gougoule.com/muscleman/)

[ManDownUnder]

Having them (http://www.hoppes.com/products/ca_boresnakes.html) shipped to NZ via some contact I have up there... if they do as I expect they should cost about $25 each... (current exchange rates etc)

You guys seen them - interested if I get some more?

[Mr Merde]

Having them (http://www.hoppes.com/products/ca_boresnakes.html) shipped to NZ via some contact I have up there... if they do as I expect they should cost about $25 each... (current exchange rates etc)

You guys seen them - interested if I get some more?

Very interested mate. What calibers?

need .30, .223, .45 rifle, 12 guage shotgun. .38 and .22 pistol

[ManDownUnder]

Very interested mate. What calibers?

need .30, .223, .45 rifle, 12 guage shotgun. .38 and .22 pistol

Right now I have 2 x .17 and 1 x 12 Gauge being shipped. I'll let you know final costs whent hey land if you want.

One of the HMR is for me, the other for Smokin (if they turn out to be "the real deal"... and coming from Hoppes I expect they are), and the 12Ga is for me.

You're welcome to borrow/try before you want one if you like.

[Mr Merde]

Right now I have 2 x .17 and 1 x 12 Gauge being shipped. I'll let you know final costs whent hey land if you want.

One of the HMR is for me, the other for Smokin (if they turn out to be "the real deal"... and coming from Hoppes I expect they are), and the 12Ga is for me.

You're welcome to borrow/try before you want one if you like.

I use them already hence the wanting more.

I shoot two .44 pistols a .44 rifle and 12 guage shotgun in competition all with black powder.

Clean up for all 4 guns takes 15 min with balistol and boresnakes. never had to pull the snake more than twice through the bore to leave them sparkling.

Any one reading this, I can thoroghly recommend these items.

[ManDownUnder]

I use them already hence the wanting more.

I shoot two .44 pistols a .44 rifle and 12 guage shotgun in competition all with black powder.

Clean up for all 4 guns takes 15 min with balistol and boresnakes. never had to pull the snake more than twice through the bore to leave them sparkling.

Any one reading this, I can thoroghly recommend these items.

Worthy praise... from one who would know... Cheers.

I figures Hoppes' kit would be pretty good... but always good to know first hand experiences.

[Smokin]

Thanks for that mighty fine offer MDU. Looking forward to having the gear to keep the 17HMR internals nice and shiny.

They look like a well thought out product.

[Swoop]

Just beware that you can wear the crown of your rifling with these. I use a similar system for my 12 guage but for rifles it is always a solid rod, fed from the action.
If you use one of these, it has to be pulled perfectly central, to guarantee that it does not rub and wear the crown unevenly.

[ManDownUnder]

Just beware that you can wear the crown of your rifling with these. I use a similar system for my 12 guage but for rifles it is always a solid rod, fed from the action.
If you use one of these, it has to be pulled perfectly central, to guarantee that it does not rub and wear the crown unevenly.

So you're saying my rifle prefers to take it up the arse... did I get that right? (and thanks... worth knowing)

[Mr Merde]

So you're saying my rifle prefers to take it up the arse... did I get that right? (and thanks... worth knowing)

An interesting analogy.

[jrandom]

So you're saying my rifle prefers to take it up the arse...

I've always thought of the breech as a mouth, and the muzzle as a, um, er, urethra, I suppose.

Being as firearms are more or less an ejaculatory compensation.

Well, I know they are for me...

[ManDownUnder]

I've always thought of the breech as a mouth, and the muzzle as a, um, er, urethra, I suppose.

Being as firearms are more or less an ejaculatory compensation.

Well, I know they are for me...

I pity she who is about to receive then...

[Sniper]

As long as the bit that goes bang isnt facing towards me, you can say whatever you like :p

I have the same analogy as jrandom though

[scumdog]

Just beware that you can wear the crown of your rifling with these. I use a similar system for my 12 guage but for rifles it is always a solid rod, fed from the action.
If you use one of these, it has to be pulled perfectly central, to guarantee that it does not rub and wear the crown unevenly.

Hence another reason why 303s end up losing their good accuracy - lots cleaning and the owner tends to hold the rifle the same way each time.

the old pull-through tends to hold abrasives and they tend to get dragged across the same section of muzzle, slowly abrading it.:yes:

A worn muzzle is death on accuracy.

[Mr Merde]

Hence another reason why 303s end up losing their good accuracy - lots cleaning and the owner tends to hold the rifle the same way each time.

the old pull-through tends to hold abrasives and they tend to get dragged across the same section of muzzle, slowly abrading it.:yes:

A worn muzzle is death on accuracy.

Which is why when using a cleaning rod I always use a rod guide.

[Wolf]

Hence another reason why 303s end up losing their good accuracy - lots cleaning and the owner tends to hold the rifle the same way each time.

the old pull-through tends to hold abrasives and they tend to get dragged across the same section of muzzle, slowly abrading it.:yes:

A worn muzzle is death on accuracy.
The secret is: don't clean 'em :D

[Swoop]

So you're saying my rifle prefers to take it up the arse... did I get that right? (and thanks... worth knowing)

Um..... er... I guess so - IF it is a bolt action! A rod guide is a good investment to keep it's bum clean.:shit:

I think I better stop right now.:dodge:

[Delerium]

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1184320019

Little article I wrote not so long ago.

[johnnyflash]

Anyone got any idea as to the current value of a Savage .22 Semiauto Rifle, 15 shot mag (tube type), its around 10 year old but only had less than 100 rounds through it.. as new condition..

[Sniper]

Anyone got any idea as to the current value of a Savage .22 Semiauto Rifle, 15 shot mag (tube type), its around 10 year old but only had less than 100 rounds through it.. as new condition..

Never believe anyone when they say, "Has had less than X" rounds through it." Its an easily told lie and impossible to prove. Besides, anything less that 4000 rounds through a .22 thats been looked after is nothing.

I would say about $175 to $250. $300 at a push.

You can buy a brand new Norinco (Granted its not a savage, but still) with scope and extra mag for $299 these days.

[Wolf]

Besides, anything less that 4000 rounds through a .22 thats been looked after is nothing.
I go by the condition of the rifle more than anything - peer down the barrel, check the action, look for wear in critical areas, A few dings in the furniture can be expected but not signs of outright abuse; worn blueing is acceptable so long as the weapon itself - especially rifling and action - is not too worn.

Pays to be cautious with anything that has a contained explosion as its driving force and is placed close to vital areas of the body during operation - even a .22 can send the bolt back into your chops if badly damaged.

[Sniper]

I go by the condition of the rifle more than anything - peer down the barrel, check the action, look for wear in critical areas, A few dings in the furniture can be expected but not signs of outright abuse; worn blueing is acceptable so long as the weapon itself - especially rifling and action - is not too worn.

Pays to be cautious with anything that has a contained explosion as its driving force and is placed close to vital areas of the body during operation - even a .22 can send the bolt back into your chops if badly damaged.

Tis true. Thats another reason why you cannot believe. "Has less than 100 rounds through it"

[johnnyflash]

LOL, a few too many assumptions here I think, the .22 is mine, bought new, but as I dont use it anymore I am thinking of getting rid and although it cost around $800 when bought I have no idea of current values.. and yep, its true, its only had a couple of boxes through it... I just cant decide to keep or get rid... Keep thinking one day I might just have time to go rabbiting again

[Sniper]

LOL, a few too many assumptions here I think, the .22 is mine, bought new, but as I dont use it anymore I am thinking of getting rid and although it cost around $800 when bought I have no idea of current values.. and yep, its true, its only had a couple of boxes through it... I just cant decide to keep or get rid... Keep thinking one day I might just have time to go rabbiting again

Keep it. If there is always the chance you will go again and its not in the way then why sell?

[The Pastor]

I have an air rifle, dose anyone know if you can change it so the trigger isnt so hard to pull back?

[ManDownUnder]

I have an air rifle, dose anyone know if you can change it so the trigger isnt so hard to pull back?

Some can be adjusted (my BSA Supersport can be) - others can't.

What make/model?

[The Pastor]

its some chinese one, 1000fps.

Trigger is way to heavy. is it a case of replacing the trigger spring and maybe polishing the componetns?

Do normal hunting stores sell springs, theres an air gun shop i think in mt albert maybe they would sell some?

I'd rather do it myself as I don't trust people.

[The Pastor]

trademe tells me its a hatsun, poss a hatsun m55 - but not sure on modle.

oh yeah its a .117 not a .22

[ManDownUnder]

its some chinese one, 1000fps.

Trigger is way to heavy. is it a case of replacing the trigger spring and maybe polishing the componetns?

Do normal hunting stores sell springs, theres an air gun shop i think in mt albert maybe they would sell some?

I'd rather do it myself as I don't trust people.

On the BSA it's a case of adjusting an allen screw I think - to load up/unload the trigger spring or somesuch. No filing etc needed on my baby, but each to their own.

[The Pastor]

yeah the triggers so heavy I cant get a consistant group smaller than 2" at 25m.....

averageing around 4" at the moment.

[doc]

I have an air rifle, dose anyone know if you can change it so the trigger isnt so hard to pull back?
It's part of the safety proceedures. If you can't cock it you wont have the strength to squeeze the trigger.. Because of the legal issues regarding recoil litigation. Your just toying with us right ?
.

[The Pastor]

It's part of the safety proceedures. If you can't cock it you wont have the strength to squeeze the trigger.. Because of the legal issues regarding recoil litigation. Your just toying with us right ?
.
not sure what your saying,

I can cock it?


but the trigger is one of the hardest ive ever pulled. (and Ive pulled some pretty hard ones hehe)

[Steam]

Here's a MP5-K intricately engraved and inlaid with gold.
Made to order by a Kuwaiti businessman who never collected it.
There's just a leetle bit of information about it here (http://www.brassgoggles.co.uk/brassgoggles/?p=140) and also here. (http://www.thegunzone.com/gaudy-mp5.html)
It's just beautiful, so here you all are.

[jrandom]

I can cock it? ... Ive pulled some pretty hard ones...

Giggle.

On a more serious note, a non-adjustable trigger can be worked over by a gunsmith for a lighter, crisper, heavier, less creepy or whatever flavour pull is desired. If you really need to change it, I recommend talking to John Hall out Helensville way. He's in the Yellow Pages under Gunsmiths.

Bit of a drive to get out there, but he knows what he's doing, and you'll have endless fascinating conversations if you ask him about his work on custom SAAs. :yes:

[jrandom]

MP5-K intricately engraved... just beautiful

I'm afraid that while the MP5 is an very well-engineered weapon, no amount of inlaying and polishing can make its clicky-clacky bits look anywhere near as elegant as some of the older favourites.

<img src="http://www.jcdevine.com/images/auction_2605/news/6-81-1+2%20DET2_sm.jpg" />

[doc]

I'm afraid that while the MP5 is an very well-engineered weapon, no amount of inlaying and polishing can make its clicky-clacky bits look anywhere near as elegant as some of the older favourites.

<img src="http://www.jcdevine.com/images/auction_2605/news/6-81-1+2%20DET2_sm.jpg" />OK you have the revolver and I'll use the MP5 ready standby standby... boo. Who looks the most elegant now ?

[The Pastor]

Giggle.

On a more serious note, a non-adjustable trigger can be worked over by a gunsmith for a lighter, crisper, heavier, less creepy or whatever flavour pull is desired. If you really need to change it, I recommend talking to John Hall out Helensville way. He's in the Yellow Pages under Gunsmiths.

Bit of a drive to get out there, but he knows what he's doing, and you'll have endless fascinating conversations if you ask him about his work on custom SAAs. :yes:

Being an air rifle will that have any effect on getting it worked over?

I pulled it apart just now, and the trigger unit is welded to the barrel and the point the trigger pivots on is a rivet - so cant take it apart.

Not wanting to spend money on getting it done by a pro i was hoping I could do it myself - I guess I cant.

[jrandom]

OK you have the revolver and I'll use the MP5 ready standby standby... boo.

I'll be dead, and the revolver will still look more elegant.

[Steam]

I'll be dead, and the revolver will still look more elegant.

Here's another that looks very very NOT elegant. It's probably the most ugly gun I have ever seen. Who would do that? Gold-plated AK47.:sick:
66743 (click to see larger image)
Oh, a bunch of mass-murdering military dictatorship officials would. Yep. This is from Saddam's regime. No surprises.

[Wolf]

I'll be dead, and the revolver will still look more elegant.
Yep, you would be - most elegant corpse in the bone orchard.

Personally I'd have a basic blued good-quality modern 9mm semi-auto over the most elegantly decorated Colt Single Action Army any day, but to each their own.

[jrandom]

Personally I'd have a basic blued good-quality modern 9mm semi-auto over the most elegantly decorated Colt Single Action Army any day, but to each their own.

I wouldn't ever want to carry one if a weapon was a daily requirement. Neither would I want to commute to work by horse and cart.

But they do look lovely, and feel sweet in the hand.

[Wolf]

But they do look lovely, and feel sweet in the hand.
Yep, they do.

I'm personally partial to the engraved and gold-inlaid oak-leaf-patterned Walthers - P-38, PPK and P99 would be my picks.

I've always preferred the look of a semi-auto over a revolver, for some reason. Well, many semi-autos: there have been some right ugly specimens over the years that I don't like the look of (think of Webley and most WWII Japanese pistols) - there are squat, ugly, starkly-utilitarian and badly-made revolvers out there that look waaaaaaaaay better than a Webley or a Nambu...

The sleek lines of Luger, Lahti, P-38, PP/PPK, P5, P99... mmmmm

And the old "broomhandle" Mauser looks delightfully quaint.

[scumdog]

Gimme a Glock17 any day.

Fired 1,000s or rounds through them and never had a 'fails to function'.

And no safety etc appeals too - nothing to jam/forget.

[Mr Merde]

OK you have the revolver and I'll use the MP5 ready standby standby... boo. Who looks the most elegant now ?

As you chose the weapons can i choose the distance.

I choose 150 meters and the SAA in .44 mag.

Very accurate to 100+ meters

MP5 effective distance 30-50 meters.

More people have been killed with a single well place bullet than the most modern gun spraying out hundreds of rounds.

Horses for courses.

Elmer Keith with a .44 caliber 3" barreled revolver was capable of hitting targets out to 600+ yards.

MP5's are great for close up and dirty work.

I personally have shot 4" groups at 300 yards with a pistol that had a 10" barrel. Back when I was fit and had good eyesight. I have also taken the Fig 12 military target (head and shoulders) out at 600 and 900 yards with the same pistol and a lot of Kentucky windage.


Mr :shit:

[Mr Merde]

.....
And no safety etc appeals too - nothing to jam/forget.

What about the trigger safety !

How many ill trained persons have pulled the pistol from a holster while putting their finger inside the guard and lightly touching this safety. Result a bullet in the thigh,

I know of two incidents at the Ardmore range both involving police officers where this happened.

Still a good gun though. It does the job it was designed for and does it well.

Mr :shit:

[Mr Merde]

As another log on the fire consider this

In 1840 something the Colt company produced the Walker model.

.44 caliber ball on top of 60 gns by volume of Black powder.

The revolver was so heavy it was carried on holsters on the saddle.

It was also considered by the Texas Rangers, for whom it was produced, to have great accuracy and hitting power out to a distance of 200 yards.

Modern guns are still really only shooting to this distance. Why else do all rifle tests only happen at 100 yards/meters.

What we have now is lighter bullets, higher velocities, mass produced firearms and modern materials.

Most firearm designs arent even new. Most of them date back 100 years plus.

[deanohit]

Most firearm designs arent even new. Most of them date back 100 years plus.

Shows they were a good design then. I would rather have a time proven and improved old design than something state of the art. I have read about all sorts of guns fitted with electronic triggers and other dark magic, but timewise they wont beat most of the old mechanical guns. Mind you its horses for courses and these new weapons do have their place.:2guns::ar15:
I still prefer a traditional rifle or revolver with a some beautiful woodwork and dark bluing.

[scumdog]

What about the trigger safety !

How many ill trained persons have pulled the pistol from a holster while putting their finger inside the guard and lightly touching this safety. Result a bullet in the thigh,

I know of two incidents at the Ardmore range both involving police officers where this happened.

Still a good gun though. It does the job it was designed for and does it well.

Mr :shit:

And that is with the New York trigger - about a gazzilion pounds of pressure to fire it!

Still the world is full of people like that, people that forget their disc-lock is on their bike, people who forget to remove the hose at the petrol pump, people who drive for 20ks with the handbrake on... it takes all sorts.

Me? I just treat all firarms in my hands as 'hot' and give them the respect needed. (What the hell use is an unloaded weapon anyway?).

[Mr Merde]

And that is with the New York trigger - about a gazzilion pounds of pressure to fire it!

Still the world is full of people like that, people that forget their disc-lock is on their bike, people who forget to remove the hose at the petrol pump, people who drive for 20ks with the handbrake on... it takes all sorts.

Me? I just treat all firarms in my hands as 'hot' and give them the respect needed. (What the hell use is an unloaded weapon anyway?).

I agree with you here mate.

The idiot factor rears its head everywhere.

I've been reading a book lately

"Sixguns" by Elmer Keith.

There was one comment in it that stuck in my head.

He kept every gun in house (and he had lots of them) , loaded.

His wife and children and all guests had that impressed upon them.

He never had a problem with the idiot factor.

He agreed with your statement in brackets.

"What the hell use is an unloaded gun?"


Chris

[Swoop]

I know of two incidents at the Ardmore range both involving police officers where this happened.
Any relevance with the closing of SoA???

(What the hell use is an unloaded weapon anyway?).
When held by the barrel they can be useful for hammering in nails... apparently.

[Korumba]

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do
not."
Thomas Jefferson


FIREARMS REFRESHER COURSE

1. An armed man is a citizen. An unarmed man is a subject.

2. A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.

3. Colt: The original point and click interface.

4. Gun control is not about guns; it's about control.

5. If guns are outlawed, can we use swords?

6. If guns cause crime, then pencils cause misspelled words.

7. "Free" men do not ask permission to bear arms.

8. If you don't know your rights you don't have any.

9. Those who trade liberty for security have neither.

10. The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights reserved.

11. What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

12. The Second Amendment is in place in case the politicians ignore
the others.

13. 64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

14. Guns only have two enemies; rust and politicians.

15. Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no
safety.

16. You don't shoot to kill; you shoot to stay alive.

17. 911 - government sponsored Dial-a-Prayer.

18. Assault is a behavior, not a device.

19. Criminals love gun control -- it makes their jobs easier and
safer.

20. If guns cause crime, then matches cause arson.

21. Only a government that is afraid of its citizens tries to control
them.

22. You only have the rights you are willing to fight for.

23. Enforce the "gun control laws" we ALREADY have, don't make more.

24. When you remove the people's right to bear arms, you create
slaves.

25. The American Revolution would never have happened with gun
control.

26. "A government of the people, by the people, for the people..."

[jrandom]

I disagree with the American attitude that every man has a right to be armed. It's patently obvious that unfit and unworthy individuals exist in great number.

[Wolf]

I disagree with the American attitude that every man has a right to be armed. It's patently obvious that unfit and unworthy individuals exist in great number.
Right with you there. That's why we have firearms safety tests in order to get a licence.

Consequently, we have had relatively few firearms-related accidents and fewer nutters-with-guns.

Now if the illegal possession could be clamped down on under existing laws rather than more restrictions brought in for those of us who obey the law...

[ManDownUnder]

Now if the illegal possession could be clamped down on under existing laws rather than more restrictions brought in for those of us who obey the law...

If that happened it would imply something considerably more fantastic had happened....

... the arrival of common sense into the debating chamber...

[Wolf]

If that happened it would imply something considerably more fantastic had happened....

... the arrival of common sense into the debating chamber...

Yeah, it was a big ask.

[doc]

Right with you there. That's why we have firearms safety tests in order to get a licence.

Consequently, we have had relatively few firearms-related accidents and fewer nutters-with-guns.

Now if the illegal possession could be clamped down on under existing laws rather than more restrictions brought in for those of us who obey the law...

You don't believe that do you?

Ferkin heck I've got a licence. I honestly think that all you need is a job and an address. It's bullshit. It is handled by a civilian department now.

[Steam]

I was browsing around ADVrider and came on this thread:

What is the Ultimate Adventure Handgun? (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99705)

Heh, imagine that in NZ, discussing which handgun to take on a long ride!?!!

[deanohit]

You don't believe that do you?

Ferkin heck I've got a licence. I honestly think that all you need is a job and an address. It's bullshit. It is handled by a civilian department now.

I must look a right dodgy cunt then. Clean record, job, good security and it still took the cops over a year to give me a licence.

[doc]

I was browsing around ADVrider and came on this thread:

What is the Ultimate Adventure Handgun? (http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=99705)

Heh, imagine that in NZ, discussing which handgun to take on a long ride!?!!
Checked out that web site. I can not understand why people red rep me when I make anti pistol type comments. This is Godzone, we dont need that shit here. I think those that feel pistols and full auto crap should be allowed cos the liberals want it for God's sake. Cmon advice on what to carry while your riding. Aren't we better off as we are ?

[Steam]

But... but... handguns are fun!
I take your point.

Hey by the way the first post in this thread specifically said this was not a thread for debating gun control, so maybe we'll leave it there.
Cheers from Steam

[doc]

But... but... handguns are fun!
I take your point.

Hey by the way the first post in this thread specifically said this was not a thread for debating gun control, so maybe we'll leave it there.
Cheers from Steam
I offer my humble apologies, those other sh.theads could have drawn my attention to that. I shall pull my head in.

[Mr Merde]

Been thinking about this for a while now and have decided that I am going to have to give up pistol shooting sports.

I havent been able to get to as many shoots as I needed to to keep my current licence valid. Circumstances have made other demands upon my time and more importantly on my finances.

I'll keep my rifles and shotguns though.

Just contacted a friend of mine who has a lot of involvement with the sport of CAS and he will try and find someone interested in purchasing my handguns.

Its been a very hard decision to make as I do love my pistol shooting involvement but with the costs of having to join a club, the expenses of going all over the country for the competitions, the rising costs of actually shooting (ie ammo) I cant really justify my continued involvement.

It hasnt helped that I have had over the past 2 years a serious conflict with certain club members and this really took the fun out of the sport for me. I used to go to the club every monday night, now I have been evicted from that club. I joined another but it is two hours distant and I just cant attend it as easily as I wished.

So if there is any one out there interested I have 5 handguns up for disposal.

2 x .44 Mag Single action revolvers
2 x .44 cap and ball revolvers (Italian copies of the Remington 1863)
1 x .22 Vostok Mumm semi auto pistol, with suppressor and three mags.

Dont know if it is appropriate to post this on this site so mods if you feel it isnt then definitely feel free to edit this post .

Chris.

[Wolf]

Heya, Chris, sorry to hear of your decision - definitely a hard one.

All the best getting top dollar for your weapons.

[jrandom]

I won't have my B endorsement until I take the PNZ test in September, or I'd be around checking out that .22.

I'm sure you'll have no trouble selling the pistols, though. Best of luck!

It's a shame that we can't own weapons like yours simply for the purpose of appreciation.

[Mr Merde]

...

It's a shame that we can't own weapons like yours simply for the purpose of appreciation.

You can.

Its called a C catagory licence. C for collectors. With this catagory there isnt much you cant hold. I know of peoples with mortars, full auto weapons (ie machine guns), deringers, pistols with barrels less than the official minimum etc.

You need to have very good security (E cat standard). It costs $200 to get and you also have to write an essay explaining your interest in collecting. If you make it too specific you will be very limited in what you can collect.

The big downer for me is that anything on a C cat licence is not allowed to be fired.

[jrandom]

C catagory

In my book, 'appreciation' includes firing them, hence the whinge.

[Mr Merde]

In my book, 'appreciation' includes firing them, hence the whinge.

We are of similar mind in this matter.

Whats the use of having an item and not being able to use it.

Imagine the stink if the government said that "yes you can own an Aston Martin but that you may not drive it anywhere, including on a fully licenced and supervised track"

The cage drivers would riot over it.

[jrandom]

Oooh. Hmm.

I just received an email from Sportways advertising Norinco M305s (reverse-engineered and cloned M-14s).

Google turned up (http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=33473.15) some interesting info and commentary (http://www.snipercountry.com/HotTips/HighEndRifles.htm).

I'm quite tempted. My chances of owning a real M-14 (or, heaven forbid, a Garand) any time soon are quite remote, and I'd rather enjoy playing with one of these.

[Mr Merde]

Oooh. Hmm.

I just received an email from Sportways advertising Norinco M305s (reverse-engineered and cloned M-14s).

Google turned up (http://army.ca/forums/index.php?topic=33473.15) some interesting info and commentary (http://www.snipercountry.com/HotTips/HighEndRifles.htm).

I'm quite tempted. My chances of owning a real M-14 (or, heaven forbid, a Garand) any time soon are quite remote, and I'd rather enjoy playing with one of these.

BUY MY KIDNEY

wanted one of these rifles for a long time now (M14)

Good price.

Christchurch gunshop was asking $3000 for the same rifle.

Mmm, just down the road from my work. Pop in this week.

[Swoop]

Christchurch gunshop was asking $3000 for the same rifle.
Chch seem to know how to price things...

Oops! Was meant to have included the word "over" in there somewhere. Where would it fit?

[Drunken Monkey]

You sure it wasn't a springfield armory one at that price? They had some SOCOM spec ones for about $4000 probably this time last year. A synthetic stock, M14 carbine with picatinny rails. They were the shiz.

[deanohit]

Was told to avoid Norinco by a mate, but my mum bought me a JW15 .22LR a few years back for possum and rabbit control and have fallen in love with it. With winchester subsonics in it, its a real tack driver doing sub 1" groups at 50 metres when I'm on the ball.

[Delerium]

The ones in chch were springfield M1s. I looked at buying one but couldnt justify the expense.

[Mr Merde]

You sure it wasn't a springfield armory one at that price? They had some SOCOM spec ones for about $4000 probably this time last year. A synthetic stock, M14 carbine with picatinny rails. They were the shiz.

They were selling them on Trade me and they were Norinco versions. I had a good look and then went to a site in Canada where they were selling them for $350 Canadian. Thought then they were asking way too much.


Was told to avoid Norinco by a mate, but my mum bought me a JW15 .22LR a few years back for possum and rabbit control and have fallen in love with it. With winchester subsonics in it, its a real tack driver doing sub 1" groups at 50 metres when I'm on the ball.

I have two Norinco firearms. A JW15 , which is a copy of the BRNO rifle, it is a lovely shooter. Woodwork is a bit shit but I have had no problems with the rifle.

The other is a copy of an 1887 Winchester lever action shotgun and this is a great firearm. Again the woodwork leaves a lot to be dersired but the functioning of it is flawless.

I have also had occasion to use the copy of the 1897 pump action shotgun and again find little fault apart from the woodwork.

My 2 cents worth.

[jrandom]

Agreed re. Norinco. Their JW14/15 .22LRs are astoundingly good for the price. $350 for a new one with suppressor and a 4X scope at most gunshops, and I guarantee you that the average punter wouldn't do any better shooting with a 10/22 at three times the sticker price.

They also make a very nice 1911 clone, once again for less than half the price of the Paras etc. Not all Chinese engineering is bad.

[deanohit]

Found on Trademe this morning, NORINCO M305 M14 .308 SEMI AUTO.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-112629541.htm

Would have to agree about the woodwork on norinco rifles been second rate. I trimmed parts of the stock and sanded mine right back nice and smooth then stained it a very dark black, then varnished it. Looks way better than it did before and is alot more comfortable. I hope to get around to making a full custom stock for it out of NZ native hardwood. Have any of you used a NZ hardwood as a stock before?

[Mr Merde]

Are these faithfull copies of the M14 or are they the M1A1 version.

From what I have read the US gov created the M1A1 basically for the civilian market as the M14 has the capability of being converted to fire "rock and roll".

The M1A1 is strictly semi auto only.

Converting the M14 is no more complicated than converting the M1 carbine to a M2

[jrandom]

Are these faithfull copies of the M14 or are they the M1A1 version.

Based on what I can gather from the interwebs, I strongly suspect that the M305s are are exact M14 copies, with the correct connector openings in the receiver to allow a full-auto selector switch, although that may have changed at some point during M305 manufacture.

It'll be interesting to check the production dates of the units that Sportways have in stock. I'm not sure if any of the guys there are intimately familiar with M14s/M1As, so the question of exactly how close to the original "rock 'n' roll capable" receiver design they are may not be immediately answerable.

[jrandom]

Ian at Sportways confirms that the M305s are faithful M14 copies, rather than clones of the M1A.

Each of the guys working at the shop has nabbed one, and minus the one I put on layby today, they have eight left. Another chap walked in to look at the display rifle just as I finished with it; I suspect they'll go like hotcakes.

I'll pick mine up on Wednesday or Thursday next week.

My very own M14 :love:

<img src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/M14_Rifle.jpg"/>

[Mr Merde]

Ian at Sportways confirms that the M305s are faithful M14 copies, rather than clones of the M1A.

Each of the guys working at the shop has nabbed one, and minus the one I put on layby today, they have eight left. Another chap walked in to look at the display rifle just as I finished with it; I suspect they'll go like hotcakes.

I'll pick mine up on Wednesday or Thursday next week.

My very own M14 :love:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/18/M14_Rifle.jpg


That was me. Very impressed with the rifle. going to be really nice to her indoors.

Loved the way they got round the flash suppressor on the barrel. No holes or grooves to the thing so it is just an ornament.

[jrandom]

That was me. Very impressed with the rifle. going to be really nice to her indoors.

Loved the way they got round the flash suppressor on the barrel. No holes or grooves to the thing so it is just an ornament.

Ah, was it? Heh, I did wonder, but was ever so slightly too shy to walk up and ask. Did you notice me? Black shirt, scruffy, slightly criminal-looking, etc. [Edit: Actually, come to think of it, unless you look quite a bit younger than you've said you are on the forum, I suspect that there was another guy looking at the rifle in between our visits. I turned up at about 11:50am. Told you they'd go like hotcakes!]

And yes, if you're not up to the job yourself, your 'muzzle brake' can be left at the shop and machined out to match the standard M14 'muzzle brake', post-purchase. You just have to ask the right guy nicely. ;)

[Mr Merde]

Ah, was it? Heh, I did wonder, but was ever so slightly too shy to walk up and ask. Did you notice me? Black shirt, scruffy, slightly criminal-looking, etc. [Edit: Actually, come to think of it, unless you look quite a bit younger than you've said you are on the forum, I suspect that there was another guy looking at the rifle in between our visits. I turned up at about 11:50am. Told you they'd go like hotcakes!]

And yes, if you're not up to the job yourself, your 'muzzle brake' can be left at the shop and machined out to match the standard M14 'muzzle brake', post-purchase. You just have to ask the right guy nicely. ;)

Someone else.

I have access to a milling machine, but thought rather that milling all the grooves out it may be better to drill holes of varying widths on the verticle grooves.

Turn it into a muzzle brake that will aid in controlling flip.

As in magna porting.

[Mr Merde]

I went down and had another long look at these rifles.

I have been lusting after one of these (M14 or M1A) for some time now.

Spent a few hours on the internet last night looking into the whys and wherefores.

Her indoors says yes but not all in one go.

Popped down and asked about layby.

Payday next Friday. If there are any left I will put one aside.

Oh goody another caliber to handload for.

[ghost]

Anyone in the South Auckland area have any contacts for a couple of "citizens of reliable standing" to conduct pest destruction on their behalf?

Any size considered from mice to goats and pigs, the old 30-30 dont mind much.

This is a public forum so we wont discuss the child abusers here......:innocent:

[jrandom]

Anyone in the South Auckland area have any contacts for a couple of "citizens of reliable standing" to conduct pest destruction on their behalf?

Any size considered from mice to goats and pigs, the old 30-30 dont mind much.

Join your local branch of the NZ Deerstalkers Association. Most branches arrange monthly hunts.

Otherwise, put some legwork in and knock on farmers' doors in whatever rural area takes your fancy. Often farmers with wild goats and pigs on their property are happy to let in hunters who introduce themselves personally and hunt at arranged times. I have a couple of guys myself, up north, that I contacted that way, who I remain on very friendly terms with.

It's amazing what a bit of politeness and the occasional bottle of wine dropped off at someone's place will achieve. :)

[scumdog]

Someone else.

I have access to a milling machine, but thought rather that milling all the grooves out it may be better to drill holes of varying widths on the verticle grooves.

Turn it into a muzzle brake that will aid in controlling flip.

As in magna porting.

Any idea why AK47 muzzle-brakes are set at an angle??

I have my theories but some fact would help prove/disprove these theories.

[Mr Merde]

Any idea why AK47 muzzle-brakes are set at an angle??

I have my theories but some fact would help prove/disprove these theories.

Not too sure so I googled the Magna Port company and found this

"
Integrated Chambers providing a more effective method of releasing gases.
Exhaust chambers with an opposite twist to ensure our brake stays tight.
A forward angle directs sound pressure away from the shooter "

http://www.magnaport.com/images/mpr3.gif

In my own personal opinion (feel free to prove me wrong) I feel that these muzle brakes are designed to comply, as much as possible, with Newton's law of motion. ie For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The gases that follow a bullet , and propell it, down the barrel are directed off at such an angle so as to reduce muzzle flip and the twist of the firearm. So if you draw a picture of the muzzle brake concerned, plot the direction of the ports and mark the direction the gases would follow, then draw an arrow in the opposite direction you would get a good idea of which action the designer's were trying to cobbat.

Not too good at explaining this, hope it helps.


Chris

[Mr Merde]

SD,

I carried on searching and found this.

"The recoil of a gun severely interferes with the accuracy of firing at a target, particularly when using hand-held guns under rapid fire conditions, because the recoil of the gun tends to cause the muzzle to kick in a direction that depends largely upon the configuration of its stock, i.e., the wooden or metal part below the axis of the barrel. For example, a ground mobile antiaircraft or antitank gun will tend to kick up, lifting the gun carriage off the ground and thus cause it to change position in azimuth and/or elevation. Similarly, a hand-held gun, such as a pistol or rifle, will tend to kick up and often to one side, generally to the side away from the person holding the gun, making rapid semiautomatic fire at a target with accuracy of all but the first round impossible. Consequently, it is common practice to use two hands on the gun, including a pistol, but it is seldom that the person firing the gun is capable of absorbing the recoil equally in both arms, particularly a pistol, and so the gun will tend to kick to one side, even in the case of a rifle, unless held with the aid of some sturdy support to stabilize the gun barrel during recoil, not only because of the stock configuration but also because of the unsymmetrical disposition of the person's body relative to the gun. In an automatic weapon, this recoil problem is more severe since the barrel will kick incrementally with each firing cycle causing the gun to "walk" up and away from the target. "

My source is http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5476028-description.html

Goes into a lot more detail

[scumdog]

I suspected much the same.
Not only is the muzzle 'brake'? cut at an angle leaving th ebottomhalf longer than th etop but it's on a left-hand thread and a spring-loaded 'lock' postitons it so that it faces the top to the left. (i.e. at first glance it looks like somebody has unscrewed it a 1/4 turn from where it looks like it should be).

I wonder if that is to asist right handed shooters (the majority) as conceivably it would direct the muzzle downwards and to the left.

Any thoughts?

[Mr Merde]

I suspected much the same.
Not only is the muzzle 'brake'? cut at an angle leaving th ebottomhalf longer than th etop but it's on a left-hand thread and a spring-loaded 'lock' postitons it so that it faces the top to the left. (i.e. at first glance it looks like somebody has unscrewed it a 1/4 turn from where it looks like it should be).

I wonder if that is to asist right handed shooters (the majority) as conceivably it would direct the muzzle downwards and to the left.

Any thoughts?

It has been a long time and I am having a hard time visualising the muzzle brake of an AK,

As to it being for a right hander, it could be.

Any one who is familiar with Col Colts single actions would have realised that it seems to be set up for a left hander to load. With the loading gate on the right it is positively awkward to load.

I have always speculated as to wether or not Samuel Colt was a left hander. This would make sense.

Watched a doco about the AK and Mr Kalashnikov was a right hander.

A lot of fire arms have a definite bias. The M16 is a real pain for a leftie unless modified the ejected hot casings will inpact upon the right cheek of a leftie.

From memory of firing the AK in full auto I do remeber the thing climbing vertical and leftwards. (I'm a right hander).

Which way does the rifling twist? The ejection port is on the right. Both these will have an impact on the direction the rifle moves upon firing. Torque effect maybe?

Anyone else have any opinions on this interesting topic? Feel free to join in and add to the wealth of information that seems to be growing in this thread,

Mr :shit:

[deanohit]

Not sure on the AK, but the big Barret M107 .50 has a huge muzzle brake on it to try and stop the recoil flinging the rifle backwards. Check it out in this vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWJp14tkBlU Newtons law again.

[scumdog]

A lot of fire arms have a definite bias. The M16 is a real pain for a leftie unless modified the ejected hot casings will inpact upon the right cheek of a leftie.

From memory of firing the AK in full auto I do remeber the thing climbing vertical and leftwards. (I'm a right hander).

Which way does the rifling twist? The ejection port is on the right. Both these will have an impact on the direction the rifle moves upon firing. Torque effect maybe?

Anyone else have any opinions on this interesting topic? Feel free to join in and add to the wealth of information that seems to be growing in this thread,

Mr :shit:

I have found the present version of the M16 suited a lefty even more than a right hander.
I can change mags, use the safety and operate the bolt-lock even easier than most right handers.
And if it jams or 'stove-pipes' I can see it as my right eye has a good view of the ejection-port.

Re the rifling of the AK - I'll have to wait until I have it out again to see.

[Animal]

I recently bought myself a new air rifle to dispatch the rabbits that my cats have become too bloody well-fed and lazy to kill themselves. I now have a .22 Weihrauch HW80 with a Tasco 6-24x40 scope. This rifle replaces my .177 Webley Vulcan, which has been an excellent tool for rabbits and possums at fairly close range. The Weihrauch has impressive power and accuracy at the longer range where the Webley ran out of guts.

Who has some rabbit recipes they're willing to share?

[Delerium]

Thats a VERY nice weapon. Definately man sized and isnt cheap, but very nice.

[ManDownUnder]

... I seem to have stumbled across a tasco 6-24 x 42 myself...

Now to get it back from the US of A LOL... God bless eBay! US$60 for it... new in box!

[Swoop]

Who has some rabbit recipes they're willing to share?
French Rabbit.

Place rabbit pieces on oven dish then coat liberally with Dijon mustard.
Season with salt & pepper on top of mustard.
Cut bacon into “matchstick” size pieces and place on top.
Add dry white wine.
Roast for 1hr @ 180 degrees.
Remove pieces from dish then add cream into tray to form sauce.
Stir until sauce thickens.
Pour over top and serve.

[deanohit]

French Rabbit.

Place rabbit pieces on oven dish then coat liberally with Dijon mustard.
Season with salt & pepper on top of mustard.
Cut bacon into “matchstick” size pieces and place on top.
Add dry white wine.
Roast for 1hr @ 180 degrees.
Remove pieces from dish then add cream into tray to form sauce.
Stir until sauce thickens.
Pour over top and serve.

Jeez that sounds flash, I've always just lobbed them in the camp oven with 1/2 can beer, onion, some garlic, chilie and a tin of tomatoes. Cook for about 4 slow cans of beer and they taste bloody good with some rice.:love:

[sAsLEX]

The ejection port is on the right. Both these will have an impact on the direction the rifle moves upon firing. Torque effect maybe?


What about a the NZDF's Steyr where the ejection port can be swapped left or right? Wonder how much this play on the design of the rifle...

[Mr Merde]

This weekend just past I felt the need to make noise and waste powder and lead.

I picked up a few of my rifles and trotted off accross the garden fence to the range.

Sighted in my .22 rifle again. I keep changing ammo and need to do this occasionaly.

Next I burnt powder in my M1 carbine. Love that rifle. Was going to load up a few hundred rounds but I broke the decapping pin in my dies and no spares. In the end I went through about 100 shots just playing around.

Third an finally I let loose with my 30-30. This little baby is going to a new home so I thought to deplete the ammo I had avaailable for it.

All in all a fun day.

Set up some permanent targets, Old real estate signsmake great back boards.

To anyone trying to get accurate with a rifle or pistol, try the following.

Once you have sighted the firearm in go out and sjhoot at a totally white target. No aiming point. Try and keep all your actions the same and try for a group. Easier to say than do.

Those targets with the lovely black spot helps you pull your aim in quite a lot. When you dont have a natural point of aim it is 10 times harder to keep in a group.

Try it.

Have fun


Merde

[Wolf]

To anyone trying to get accurate with a rifle or pistol, try the following.

Once you have sighted the firearm in go out and sjhoot at a totally white target. No aiming point. Try and keep all your actions the same and try for a group. Easier to say than do.

Those targets with the lovely black spot helps you pull your aim in quite a lot. When you dont have a natural point of aim it is 10 times harder to keep in a group.
Hmmmm, sounds like a fiendish exercise. Cheers for that tip.

And sounds like you had a great time burning some powder.

[Sniper]

Sounds like you had fun Mr Merde.

I have never heard of the white paper method before but it makes a shit load of sense. Something to go into the archives :)

[Mr Merde]

Sounds like you had fun Mr Merde.

I have never heard of the white paper method before but it makes a shit load of sense. Something to go into the archives :)

It was fun.

Try the white page. Really shows you how inconsistant you can be.

Got your PM amd e-mails. Will be in touch.


Merde

[Sniper]

It was fun.

Try the white page. Really shows you how inconsistant you can be.

Got your PM amd e-mails. Will be in touch.


Merde

Sweet as mate, I apprieciate it.

Yea Im going to try the white page technique when I get to Blenheim. Even if I dont need to sight my rifles in, its a good way to see how I group.

All the best mate

[Mr Merde]

I was chatting to a couple of mates tonight and i told them about using the range last weekend.

Off shot of these conversations is that we are going to have a day of powder burning on the 22nd of this month.Two of us with .58 Remington Zoave front stuffers. One of us with a Jaeger front stuffing flinter.

All of us with a few other rifles.

When i said "burn powder" I meant the real stuff not that modern propellant.We have a couple of kilos of the black stuff. Bring on the smoke, the flame and the thunder.

We may use a little of the "propellant" just to prove we are not biased though.It should be fun. Goes without saying really. Any day spent shooting is fun.

I think I'll have to upgrade my targets. make some interesting challenges.

Black powder front stuffers, 100 yard range on a slight elevation to the targets, looks like I need some tin cans and some clays.

Ever seen a .58 caliber soft lead ball hit a clay pigeon. Orange dust.

Ballons are a real bitch to shoot. I have seen a .45 ACP graze a ballon and not burst it. They also waver around in the wind a lot, making it harder to hit. I do have a dozen 12 guage 1 1/8 oz solids to use up along with the same number of #1 buckshot. 100 yards for the solids will be a piece of cake.

i am quite excited as you can tell.


Merde

[Swoop]

Old real estate signs....
What's this "old" shit? People just leave them outside their houses ready to be picked up on the way to the range.:whistle:

(they are really good target backings - completely endorsed by The Swoop :msn-wink:)

[Mr Merde]

What's this "old" shit? People just leave them outside their houses ready to be picked up on the way to the range.:whistle:

(they are really good target backings - completely endorsed by The Swoop :msn-wink:)

Just a little hard to pick up while on the bike.

Agree wholeheartedly that they make excellent target backings.

Merde

[Swoop]

Just a little hard to pick up while on the bike.
Ah, yes. On a bike could be a bit difficult for storage...:buggerd:

[pritch]

Im going to try the white page technique when I get to Blenheim.


Some people actually find that they get a better group like this once free of the tyranny of the black dot.

The vertical height of the group doesn't matter too much, but the width is important. If you try to keep the group tight by aiming at the first hole you have sort of missed the point.

[doc]

When i said "burn powder" I meant the real stuff not that modern propellant.We have a couple of kilos of the black stuff. Bring on the smoke, the flame and the thunder.


Hope you are not talking about "Pyrodex"

[Wolf]

If you try to keep the group tight by aiming at the first hole you have sort of missed the point.
No worries there - my eyesight, I wouldn't be able to see the first hole unless I shot it at ten feet with a 12ga solid slug...

[Mr Merde]

Hope you are not talking about "Pyrodex"

Almost as bad as that heathen modern usurper, nitro celliose, (bad spelling).

No, Im talking 2F and 3F grade Chinese gunpowder, an explosive not a propellant.

[Mr Merde]

Some people actually find that they get a better group like this once free of the tyranny of the black dot.

The vertical height of the group doesn't matter too much, but the width is important. If you try to keep the group tight by aiming at the first hole you have sort of missed the point.

First time I tried this technique my target looked like I had taken a 12 guage loaded with buck shot to it. I had become so acustomed to using the bull as a point of reference that I was a bit lost without it. Not that the standard target isnt a good aid but it does instill habitual traits into ones shooting if you use it all the time.

I am a firm believer in learning where my guns shoot to. So much so that I will start with a rifle from as close as 10 yards and gradually move back to the longer ranges. Do the same with pistols, been known to train at no more than 5 yards from the target with these. The whole thing is about knowing whats going on, knowing where your shots are going to and keeping consistant. Used to train with my .45 auto at a distance of 1/4 inch from the target. No rounds in the gun but a pencil with a rubber on the end up the barrel. Firing pin would hit the rubber and drive the pencil that short distance to the target. The sharpened pont would make an indentation on the target very similar to a grouping if one was using live rounds, only smaller in scale. you had all the telltale signs there on the target of stringing shots, change in grip, bad sighting etc, at no cost of ammo.

There another tip for you pistol shooters out there.

I also used to spend hours just raising my firearms to shooting oposition. muscle memory is a wonderful thing when developed. It takes out of the equation on less thing that your concious brain has to think about.

Merde.

[doc]

Almost as bad as that heathen modern usurper, nitro celliose, (bad spelling).

No, Im talking 2F and 3F grade Chinese gunpowder, an explosive not a propellant. Im talking elephant fff, a real cheap fix

[Mr Merde]

Im talking elephant fff, a real cheap fix

Wish I could lay my hands on some Swiss 1 1/2 but it is very very expensive and in short supply here.

The "septics" I talk to cant believe how much we have to pay for the Holy Black.

They get the Elephant brand for about US$8 a tub (1 Kg), we pay NZ$70

Something wrong here.

[Sniper]

Wish I could lay my hands on some Swiss 1 1/2 but it is very very expensive and in short supply here.

The "septics" I talk to cant believe how much we have to pay for the Holy Black.

They get the Elephant brand for about US$8 a tub (1 Kg), we pay NZ$70

Something wrong here.

And unfortunatly its not the stuff you can import is it.

[doc]

And unfortunatly its not the stuff you can import is it.
Friend buy's a pkt 7mm 08 for me each time he goes to LA at Walmart NZ$28 for 20 Winchester, just declares it and it is no problem. At those sort of prices for powder, thinking I could maybe supply him with some condoms and I'll be on the rich list in no time.

[Mr Merde]

And unfortunatly its not the stuff you can import is it.

Unfortunately to import black powder you need very special licences. It is an explosive and as such comes under some very strigent importation rules.

The chinese stuff we get in now is imported by a gentleman from down Hamilton way, who does fireworks etc for a living.

We did have some Swiss in thisa country once. After that film with Tom Cruise was finished filming in the Waikato they sold offr all the remaining stock.

Very expensive.

[Sniper]

Ok, thats useful to know.

I did go have a look at power the other day and now that I have an idea of prices. Hell CHCH is expensive

S

[ManDownUnder]

Friend buy's a pkt 7mm 08 for me each time he goes to LA at Walmart NZ$28 for 20 Winchester, just declares it and it is no problem. At those sort of prices for powder, thinking I could maybe supply him with some condoms and I'll be on the rich list in no time.

.... really...???

..... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

What kind of licence/permits does he need to purchase? Can I contact him? I get up that way semi regular and it makes sense to stock up on ammo if I can (I recall Winchester 3" 12 gauge was ahbout 1/4 of the NZ price if purchased in TX....! Walmat as you say...)

[Smokin]

Hell, I didn't know you could get away with that either.
I was always under the impression that you weren't allowed ammunition on commercial aircraft.

[Mr Merde]

Hell, I didn't know you could get away with that either.
I was always under the impression that you weren't allowed ammunition on commercial aircraft.

You cant carry it onboard with you but you are allowed to have up to 5 kg of ammo in your checkin baggage. Must be declared though.

[Smokin]

You cant carry it onboard with you but you are allowed to have up to 5 kg of ammo in your checkin baggage. Must be declared though.

That bit of info could be very useful my man, Thanks.

[Mr Merde]

That bit of info could be very useful my man, Thanks.

As long as you are open and it, airlines are quite reasonable about carrying of firearms and ammo.

Jan before last my mates and I travelled to Hokitika from Auckland by air. We carried 8 handguns with us. Checked in and declared. No problems

Another mate travelled down by car and took all our ammo, shotguns and carbines.

[doc]

You cant carry it onboard with you but you are allowed to have up to 5 kg of ammo in your checkin baggage. Must be declared though.
Yep thats the truth no paperwork just check it in with your baggage obviously, couldn't believe it when he offered . Also gets me 550 rds Federal loose packed .22 for possums every trip, NZ$9, getting a bit embarrassing the amount of ammo building up in this house. Same with the lasers from Hong Kong, the red ones are NZ$22. the Green ones NZ$120. the people on trademe selling these things must have the same contacts. Heaps of possums out this time of the year too, Lasers make it so easy.

[Bass]

I'd like to introduce you lads to my girlfriend.
She should fit right in.

[pritch]

I'd like to introduce you lads to my girlfriend.
She should fit right in.

Those things are great as long as someone else is paying.
(I meant the minigun, but on second thoughts...):whistle:

[Bass]

Those things are great as long as someone else is paying.
(I meant the minigun, but on second thoughts...):whistle:

So what's cheapest in the long run?

The ammo, the woman or the AC 130?

[sAsLEX]

So what's cheapest in the long run?

The ammo, the woman or the AC 130?

the AC

[Smokin]

I had to pop into town today to get a new tent pole, This was the only one I could find...

[Wolf]

I had to pop into town today to get a new tent pole, This was the only one I could find...
Pretty versatile-lookin' tent pole.

Very nice.

[deanohit]

I noticed some of you guys were talking about the AR-7 a while back. Well Henry have started making them again to tighter tolerances to try and fix accuracy and jamming problems. Looks like a handy little rifle.

http://www.henryrepeating.com/h002_survival.cfm

[Wolf]

I noticed some of you guys were talking about the AR-7 a while back. Well Henry have started making them again to tighter tolerances to try and fix accuracy and jamming problems. Looks like a handy little rifle.

http://www.henryrepeating.com/h002_survival.cfm
One of the guys on the XT225 forum put up a thread about his mods to a no-longer-in-production Springfield "Scout" rifle (.22lr/.410 shot) to make it into more of a survival weapon (survival kit in stock recess etc) that he could carry easily on his bike in case he got into a survival situation while exploring off the beaten tracks.

That AR-7 looks the business for that task, would make a great lightweight and small firearm to carry on the bike.

Question is: Are there places you can ride a bike in NZ where it would be necessary to take a survival weapon in case you get stranded or are all our off-road tracks too accessible/tame to worry about?

[deanohit]

Not so much looking at a survival weapon, but as a pack rifle, and that XT forum is where I found out about this. Was a very tidy looking job he did on that combo gun aye?

[sAsLEX]

Question is: Are there places you can ride a bike in NZ where it would be necessary to take a survival weapon in case you get stranded or are all our off-road tracks too accessible/tame to worry about?

South Auckland?

[Wolf]

Not so much looking at a survival weapon, but as a pack rifle, and that XT forum is where I found out about this. Was a very tidy looking job he did on that combo gun aye?
You hang out there as well, huh?

Yes, Keith did a great job of the scout - as he does on all his projects. Bloody craftsman.

That AR-7 would make an excellent pack rifle, seriously considering one for my survival kit, now.

[Wolf]

South Auckland?
Nah. Need a heavier calibre and higher capacity for that place.

Full auto option and a belt feed might be advantageous.

[sAsLEX]

Nah. Need a heavier calibre and higher capacity for that place.

Full auto option and a belt feed might be advantageous.

http://www.remtek.com/arms/glock/model/9/18/

easy to hide under a jacket and a few mags would have them running

[ManDownUnder]

So what's cheapest in the long run?

The ammo, the woman or the AC 130?

Ammo - the other two suck up too much gas...

[007XX]

Ammo - the other two suck up too much gas...

:D:shutup:

I wish I knew more about guns...then again I also wish (sometimes) I was a bloke!

But what would you guys say is a good gun for a chick to start learning with?

and please, don't kick me out of this thread, I swear I'll behave!

[jrandom]

But what would you guys say is a good gun for a chick to start learning with?

The canonical answer is a bolt-action .22LR.

But, personally, I just want to take you out, hand you my Mosin Nagant model 38, and let you fire it without ear protection.

:)

[Wolf]

But, personally, I just want to take you out, hand you my Mosin Nagant model 38, and let you fire it without ear protection.

:)
The trusty .303 can be enough of a shock to the uninitiated. Play nice, ol' chap.

[jrandom]

The trusty .303 can be enough of a shock to the uninitiated.

007XX and 'uninitiated' do not belong in the same sentence.


Play nice, ol' chap.

I wouldn't do it without consent...

[007XX]

The canonical answer is a bolt-action .22LR.

But, personally, I just want to take you out, hand you my Mosin Nagant model 38, and let you fire it without ear protection.

:)

Oh really? Sweetness, I may be blond, but I wasn't exactly born yesterday...So, when do we do just that, but with earmuffs?? :laugh:


The trusty .303 can be enough of a shock to the uninitiated. Play nice, ol' chap.

It's ok Wolfie, young Jrandom can try to play all he likes...I generally give back as good as I get! :innocent:

Thanks for the advice, jotted down for future reference. :niceone:

[jrandom]

So, when do we do just that, but with earmuffs?? :laugh:

I'm considering a trip to the Waiuku rifle range one of these weekends with one of the chaps from Sportways (and maybe a couple of others) for a play with our M14s. You and XY would be welcome to join us, I'm sure.

[007XX]

I'm considering a trip to the Waiuku rifle range one of these weekends with one of the chaps from Sportways (and maybe a couple of others) for a play with our M14s. You and XY would be welcome to join us, I'm sure.

:niceone:yes please! Sounds like fun to me...I know for a fact XY can shoot...

However, I may have to make sure everyone around me knows how to duck!:laugh:

[Wolf]

It's ok Wolfie, young Jrandom can try to play all he likes...I generally give back as good as I get! :innocent:

Thanks for the advice, jotted down for future reference. :niceone:
I was just poking fun at him. I'm the guy who wanted to go out with the L1A1's gas setting set to optimal blowback, fire a few rounds then surrepticiously dial the blowback to maximum while I was passing the weapon to one of my friends... :devil2:

[ManDownUnder]

:D:shutup:

I wish I knew more about guns...then again I also wish (sometimes) I was a bloke!

But what would you guys say is a good gun for a chick to start learning with?

and please, don't kick me out of this thread, I swear I'll behave!

The .17 HMR is pretty good. a slight (tony) kick and enough noise and punch to make you think about it...

or as JR said - the .22. Cheap to run, not too deadly but enough to stop things where they stand if needed

[007XX]

I was just poking fun at him. I'm the guy who wanted to go out with the L1A1's gas setting set to optimal blowback, fire a few rounds then surrepticiously dial the blowback to maximum while I was passing the weapon to one of my friends... :devil2:

:devil2: Oh I do so like the way you think! :laugh:


The .17 HMR is pretty good. a slight (tony) kick and enough noise and punch to make you think about it...

or as JR said - the .22. Cheap to run, not too deadly but enough to stop things where they stand if needed

Cheers for that...However, what if I am more curious about pistols than rifles?

[jrandom]

what if I am more curious about pistols than rifles?

Then you're screwed until you get your class A firearms licence. Pistol NZ don't let people onto their ranges any more without at least the basic A licence, so get cracking.

[007XX]

Then you're screwed until you get your class A firearms licence. Pistol NZ don't let people onto their ranges any more without at least the basic A licence, so get cracking.

Bugger! I was afraid of that...But it is fair enough!

However, I can only afford to spend time and money on so many hobbies, and getting the whole firearm licence is fairly expensive and involved from what I hear.

Oh well, I'll just have to content myself with playing with your rifle dear! :innocent:

[doc]

from what I hear.

Oh well, I'll just have to content myself with playing with your rifle dear! :innocent:
Would that be small bore :bleh: or full bore:banana:

[Wolf]

Would that be small bore :bleh: or full bore:banana:
jrandom is anything but a bore.

[doc]

jrandom is anything but a bore.
I'm talkin size here buddy ? so is 007xx

[jrandom]

I'm talkin size here buddy ? so is 007xx

I'm afraid I can't claim anything special in that department. Then again, rifle shooting is all about careful shot placement...

[Wolf]

I'm talkin size here buddy ? so is 007xx
Go on, ruin a perfectly good homonymic pun. Go on.

[doc]

Go on, ruin a perfectly good homonymic pun. Go on.
No I am very particular about cleanliness, pull thru's follow thru, gentle squeeze, and relax between shots.

[007XX]

No I am very particular about cleanliness, pull thru's follow thru, gentle squeeze, and relax between shots.

Relax between shots? :nono:...and being in danger of falling asleep then: no good!

That's when you're supposed to do some digits' exercises to make sure your fingers are nimble and acutely aware of the essential pressure to be applied to the trigger...

Or so I heard anyway! :innocent:

And Wolf is correct, Jrandom is anything buta bore...more like a sniper rifle: sharp and accurate!

[Mr Merde]

Dear oh dear,

I been away too long and missed all this.

HAd a shoot at my place last Saturday.

30 M1, .223, .44Mag, .54 flinter and a .58 caplock.

Good time was had by all.

Finished off with a blast with the shotgun, solid slugs and a 100 yard target (fun).

Sniper. Sorry I havent been in touch, wor\k has had me working away. Toy still not sent but not forgotten.

007. Nice to see another lady interested in the skill of shooting. My step daughter was shooting last weekend with muzzle loading antique firearms. She shot well. The secret is not to be nervous and listen to those teaching. Most people are put off by the noise first time out.

Jrandom, missed our chats.

MDU glad you have got to sight in the .17.

Just to make you all a little jealous.

Popped a turkey last weekend. More food in the freezer. In 1/2 hour I am off round the area with myt 12 guage. Possums beware I'm out to get you.


Merde

[geoffm]

I'm considering a trip to the Waiuku rifle range one of these weekends with one of the chaps from Sportways (and maybe a couple of others) for a play with our M14s. You and XY would be welcome to join us, I'm sure.

ohh boy! Can I come - I will bring the Armalite...
Geoff

[Mr Merde]

Its 2 hours later and there are 5 less Australian immigrants living in NZ.

Just a quick walk round.

12 guage rules.

Merde

[Wolf]

Its 2 hours later and there are 5 less Australian immigrants living in NZ.

Just a quick walk round.

12 guage rules.

Merde
Hope one of them was that fat noisy Aussie bastard down the road from me with the RX7 and the foul-mouthed wife...

[fireball]

im off down home to the farm next month cant wait will be taking city girl LilSel out on a night shoot on the quad its been a couple of years since i had my rifle out.... at least the old man uses it and its kept oiled and clean

yay im excited!

:2guns:look out ferrets, possums, rabbits, goats!

[deanohit]

Sounds like fun. Will you use the old .22 or something.

[007XX]

What I do know from the couple of times I tried my hand at shooting, is that it was very therapeutic...or cathartic, if you will!

I could so easily see the face of some people in that line of sight! :devil2::laugh:

[deanohit]

Ooohh yea, very stress releiving. Always loved my .22's, cheap to shoot as much as you want and quiet enough that the neighbors won't kick up a stink.

I remember taking a few american girls to the rifle range and was pleased to see that they could shoot well, had a wee compitition and I came second. Then find out the one who won was a long rifleman in the Army and the other was a hand gun instructor for the police, bloody gun crazy americans.

[fireball]

i love the .22 altho me and my father have always argued what is better to shoot quail with
i say shot gun using maybe 5s or 9s if your felling useless :lol:
he says .22

any one know what would be better?

[deanohit]

Go for a compromise and use .22 bird shot. Always had trouble finding it in stores in Blenheim, but it works bloody good with out destroying the birds.

[Wolf]

What I do know from the couple of times I tried my hand at shooting, is that it was very therapeutic...or cathartic, if you will!
Yep, nothing like putting holes in something at a distance. Plinking tin cans? Fill 'em with water - the geyser effect as the bullet tears through the can at > mach 1 is quite fun.

And the bigger the round, the better the geyser.

A 4-litre plastic container full of water and rifled slugs in the shotgun looks like fun (from pics I've seen)

I've been told plasticine pushed into the hollow point of the humble .22lr projectile can have spectacular effects...

[007XX]

Yep, nothing like putting holes in something at a distance. Plinking tin cans? Fill 'em with water - the geyser effect as the bullet tears through the can at > mach 1 is quite fun.

And the bigger the round, the better the geyser.

A 4-litre plastic container full of water and rifled slugs in the shotgun looks like fun (from pics I've seen)

I've been told plasticine pushed into the hollow point of the humble .22lr projectile can have spectacular effects...

Oh that does sound like a lot of fun...:clap:

Now, I'm getting this little movie in my head of being a 21st century Calamity Jane:2guns::laugh: Except I can't get the flippin' A licence thingy:Oops:

[deanohit]

Been and done the tin can full of water. Pretty cool until you hit a can with a little bit of petrol in it with a HV .22 round. ;)


I've been told plasticine pushed into the hollow point of the humble .22lr projectile can have spectacular effects...

Now that sounds interesting Wolf, what were you shooting at? Will have to give it a go sometime.:ar15:

[Mr Merde]

...I've been told plasticine pushed into the hollow point of the humble .22lr projectile can have spectacular effects...

I have been known (in the past), to fill hoolow point ammo with grease, then superglue a piece of lead shot over that.

The lead in the bullet will compress, the grease ( a liquid) will not.

Explosion

Another way is to fill the cavity of a .44 hollow point with gunpowder then superglue a primer to the nose.

When it strikes the primer ignites the powder and

BOOOOOOM !!!!!

Tried it and it works wonderfully

[deanohit]

Woah! Gotta give those a go man, like the idea for the .22 round better, could be quite the possum round.

[Wolf]

Now that sounds interesting Wolf, what were you shooting at? Will have to give it a go sometime.:ar15:
Wasn't me. A mate of mine made up a diverse batch - cut a cross in the head of one, filled another with plasticine and yet another with mercury from an old thermometer (ugh, won't catch me fucking with that shit). Capped the mercury-filled one with a small amount of plasticine.

Took them out to his mate's farm and they fired a .22 solid into a strainer post, noted the relative sizes of entry and exit holes. Went to another post and did the same with a standard .22lr hollowpoint, on to the next post with the cut hollowpoint and so on.

Apparently the plasticine one blew out a large chunk of the back of the strainer and the mercury-filled one severed its strainer post.

I wouldn't recommend handling mercury, personally but the plasticine one sounds fun. My mate theorises that the heat caused when it compresses on impact is probably enough to liquify the plasticine anyway and give a nice "mechanical explosion".

[LilSel]

im off down home to the farm next month cant wait will be taking city girl LilSel out on a night shoot on the quad its been a couple of years since i had my rifle out.... at least the old man uses it and its kept oiled and clean

yay im excited!

:2guns:look out ferrets, possums, rabbits, goats!

I can shoot... :Punk:... I just shoot targets... which are smaller than possums n stuff... so dont be givin me too much shit for being a city slicker :lol:... someones dad shoots for auckland remember :bleh:... & someones mum used to as well... & someones sister shot for auckland too...
me however?... I stuck to the bowling for NZ :woohoo: te he he

[Shiny side up]

Any one know of anywhere I can sight in a 30-06 in the Hamilton-ish area.
I have a husqvana fully wooded with a 4x82 scope....... And I haven't been able to put a round through it yet.
Usally just use the .22 Lithgow Slaz with a home made suppressor (made from 3 bit of pvc pipe) and subbies.

We were out one night shooting possums and had one sit just out of range of the subbies. We thought of putting a super after it but before we had changed a mag over there was a truly deafning roar and the posum vanished leaving nothing but bits of fur in the spotlights. The driver of the 4x4 we were traveling in, had pulled out a 22-250 with a bi-pod, sat it on the roof of the 4x4 and proceeded (without warning) to turn the possum inside out. That after the putt of the subbies made us all feel like we had been sapped with a cosh.

[Shiny side up]

I'm considering a trip to the Waiuku rifle range one of these weekends .
Where is the range at Waiuku..... I did my schooling there and I didn't know there was one..... Oh you mean it is less than 25 years old. :-)#

[Wolf]

That after the putt of the subbies made us all feel like we had been sapped with a cosh.
LMAO! I know the feeling.

A .30-30 fired less than a yard away in the still of the night in the midst of a narrow river valley can take the wind out of you.

[Wolf]

Where is the range at Waiuku..... I did my schooling there and I didn't know there was one..... Oh you mean it is less than 25 years old. :-)#
It's been there for 50 years, your schooling was longer ago than you claim :devil2:

[geoffm]

We were out one night shooting possums and had one sit just out of range of the subbies. We thought of putting a super after it but before we had changed a mag over there was a truly deafning roar and the posum vanished leaving nothing but bits of fur in the spotlights. The driver of the 4x4 we were traveling in, had pulled out a 22-250 with a bi-pod, sat it on the roof of the 4x4 and proceeded (without warning) to turn the possum inside out. That after the putt of the subbies made us all feel like we had been sapped with a cosh.

I have a BSA Majestic Featherweight 30-06. lighter than my 22 at 6.5lb it has a ported barrel with muzzle brake.'Kin oath it is loud, especially for the poor sods on either side of you n on the firing line. I always ended up on my own during shoots :lol:
Light weight makes it nice to carry in the holls, but you don't want to do to many shots with it, especially with the 220gr Norma loads I used to have. My standard load is a 180g round nose soft point (because I bought 2000+ of them when CAC went though) with 50gr of Vivitori N140 (because I got a good deal on some 2kg jugs of powder..). Been a while - time to load up some more.
Geoff

[Mr Merde]

... My standard load is a 180g round nose soft point (because I bought 2000+ of them when CAC went though) with 50gr of Vivitori N140 (because I got a good deal on some 2kg jugs of powder..). Been a while - time to load up some more.
Geoff

Another reloader. Welcome. I love to tinker around with different bullets, powders etc.

Trying at the moment to get a decent load for the M1 carbine.

Using 120 gn hard cast lead projectiles (1:15, tin/lead mix)

AS 2207 12.5gns

still not reliably cycling the action. maybe another 1/2 grain.

[ManDownUnder]

MDU glad you have got to sight in the .17

Still do man - just waiting for my next trip to the land of the free to pick up a certain 6-24x tasco recommended to me.

I might need to grab a couple of people, and a couple of weapons and head down your way. Sorry I haven't made it so far... bastard of a month - another bastard ahead of me too. Still... I found some more lead if you want it. Not much - just one more of those sheets I flicked you a while back.

How's the magpie population? That tape working for you?

[Mr Merde]

Still do man - just waiting for my next trip to the land of the free to pick up a certain 6-24x tasco recommended to me.

I might need to grab a couple of people, and a couple of weapons and head down your way. Sorry I haven't made it so far... bastard of a month - another bastard ahead of me too. Still... I found some more lead if you want it. Not much - just one more of those sheets I flicked you a while back.

How's the magpie population? That tape working for you?

Always looking foir lead.

When you are ready just give me a call and pop down.

Mates welcome.

Magpies still there. Clever birds.

Turkey population depleted a bit.

Chris

[davereid]

CRANDON, Wis. - The residents Tyler Peterson was hired to protect and serve can't understand how the 20-year-old who shot six of their young people and critically injured another could have passed a background check to become a sheriff's deputy. ADVERTISEMENT

Peterson was shot to death after opening fire early Sunday on a group of teenagers who had gathered for pizza and movies on their high school's homecoming weekend. Peterson was off-duty from his full-time job as a Forest County deputy sheriff; he also was a part-time Crandon police officer.

David Franz, 36, who lives with his wife two houses from the duplex where the shooting occurred, said it was hard to accept that someone in law enforcement was the gunman.

"The first statement we said to each other was, how did he get through the system?" Franz said. "How do they know somebody's background, especially that young? It is disturbing, to say the least."

Sheriff Keith Van Cleve said he would meet with state Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen on Monday morning to discuss the case.

Crandon Police Chief John Dennee said it would be handled by the state Department of Criminal Investigation because the suspect was a deputy and officer.

Peterson was killed Sunday afternoon, eight miles north of Crandon in the rural town of Argonne, Dennee said.

Crandon mayor Gary Bradley said Sunday that a sniper killed the suspect, but Van Cleve would not confirm that officers shot him.

The gunman's motive was unclear, but the mother of a 14-year-old victim, Lindsey Stahl, said the suspect may have been a jealous boyfriend.

"I'm waiting for somebody to wake me up right now. This is a bad, bad dream," said Jenny Stahl. "All I heard it was a jealous boyfriend and he went berserk. He took them all out."

Dennee declined comment on whether Peterson had a romantic relationship with any of the victims.

The white, two-story duplex was about a block from downtown Crandon, a town of about 2,000 located 225 miles north of Milwaukee in an area known for logging and outdoor activities. The victims had gathered for what Dennee described as "a pizza and movie party."

Three of the victims were Crandon High School students, said school Superintendent Richard Peters, and the other three had graduated within the past three years.

"There is probably nobody in Crandon who is not affected by this," Peters said, adding that students "are going to wake up in shock and disbelief and a lot of pain."

Peters did not know whether Peterson had graduated from the 300-student school. But Crandon resident Karly Johnson, 16, said that she knew the gunman and that he had helped her in a tech education class.

"He graduated with my brother," she said. "He was nice. He was an average guy. Normal. You wouldn't think he could do that."

The Crandon School District called off classes Monday.

One victim, 20-year-old Bradley Schultz, was a third-year student at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee who was home to visit his friends, said his aunt, Sharon Pisarek.

"We still don't have many details, but from what they've told us, there was a girl next to him and he was covering her, protecting her," she said, sobbing. "He was loved by everybody. He was everybody's son. Senseless."

David Franz's wife, Marci, said she was awakened by the gunshots.

"I heard probably five or six shots, a short pause and then five or six more," she said. "I wasn't sure if it was gunfire initially. I thought some kids were messing around and hitting a nearby metal building."

Then she heard eight louder shots and tires squealing, she said.

"I was just about to get up and call it in, and I heard sirens," she said. "There's never been a tragedy like this here. There's been individual incidents, but nothing of this magnitude."

___

[Wolf]

We need more gun control
CRANDON, Wis. - The residents Tyler Peterson was hired to protect and serve can't understand how the 20-year-old who shot six of their young people and critically injured another could have passed a background check to become a sheriff's deputy.
And the relevance to New Zealand firearms law is?

You want me to find a story of a 200kph accident on a German Autobahn and campaign to get our speed limit lowered while we're at it?

[Mumbles]

We need more gun control ___
:Oi:
Ever tried to get a firearms license in NZ?
What about a B or E Cat?
Its not the gun control, its the penalty for offenders involved in crime while using guns.

Do some research on this subject before posting, we get sick of being accused by misinformed individuals when we (people posting on this thread) are law abiding citizens who have been vetted by the NZ Police and have meet everything that they require to have this privilege.

Sorry if your intentions are otherwise but It just makes me :mad:

[Delerium]

I know... lets anger and frustrate a bunch of people by making it more difficult for them to carry out their sport, the same people that go to lengths to store their equipment according to the law and gain the correct licenses. This will reduce gun crime becuase all the criminals go out and gain their license and store their firearms according to the lase before the rob the ASB down the road with it.

Tell me again, how does more gun control prevent illegal activites and the black market from occuring in NZ?

Yes occasionally licensed owners do get prosecuted for firearms offences, the latest a collector stating his collection was stolen. But generally NZ firearms ownder are the some of the best and most responsible in the world.

Whats that, more restrictions will reduce crime... well what about in certain european countries were all citizens carry out compulsory military training and take home their fully automotic service weapon (illegal to citizens of NZ) and crime is much lower than here.

Why is it that all the people holding up the firearms restrictions banner seem to use emotive rather than logical arguments? I suspect because the facts get in the way of their opinion and tend to prove them wrong.

/End rant

[Goblin]

I dont have a firearms license :whistle: but my son went out with his Grandad, who does have the license, last weekend and had his first ever go at shooting. :clap: Im well proud so I'd just like to have a wee brag. :D

[scumdog]

I dont have a firearms license :whistle: but my son went out with his Grandad, who does have the license, last weekend and had his first ever go at shooting. :clap: Im well proud so I'd just like to have a wee brag. :D

So how come there are blood-stains on the left hand score sheet paper??

[scumdog]

I have been known (in the past), to fill hoolow point ammo with grease, then superglue a piece of lead shot over that.

The lead in the bullet will compress, the grease ( a liquid) will not.

Explosion

Another way is to fill the cavity of a .44 hollow point with gunpowder then superglue a primer to the nose.

When it strikes the primer ignites the powder and

BOOOOOOM !!!!!

Tried it and it works wonderfully

At dusk do this at least once. (on a calm night)

Hang a plastic bag with at least 500ml of petrol from a fence-wire about 3 feet from the ground.

Place large candle underneath.

Step back about 15 yards.

Use hollow-point 222 to shoot plastic bag

Woo-hoooo!

[Wolf]

At dusk do this at least once. (on a calm night)

Hang a plastic bag with at least 500ml of petrol from a fence-wire about 3 feet from the ground.

Place large candle underneath.

Step back about 15 yards.

Use hollow-point 222 to shoot plastic bag

Woo-hoooo!
And stand upwind if you value your eyebrows? :devil2:

[scumdog]

We Need More Gun Control??___

Look at gun control in the UK (extreme)

Look at the penalties. (severe)

Look at the gun-deaths in London alone. (numerous)

It's an indication of the societies wellbeing rather than bad gun control that these shootings occur IMHO..

[Goblin]

So how come there are blood-stains on the left hand score sheet paper??I couldn't say for certain. When did you become detective?

[deanohit]

How olds ya boy Goblin? Thats some pretty good shooting for a first timer, at least the holes are all in a loose group. Big ups to Grandpa for showing him the difference between a rifle and a playstation.

[Goblin]

Thanks deanohit, Matty is 10. Playstation games are banned in this house! The only use it gets these days is for watching DVDs.

[davereid]

Well, didn't my little post go awray !

The purpose of my post was a little tongue-in-cheek.

The gun control lobby often say "only the police and army" should have firearms.

My intent was to quietly remind those people that no end of background checks will ensure that a bad-un doesnt sneak through.

In todays "Dom" police found another criminal with a sub machine gun. And its not new, remember the basset road machine gun murders. ?

Very jumpy around here aren't we ?

[Swoop]

Had to laugh at tv1 news this morning, going on about the "six dead massacre" in the USA and how the "lax gun control laws".... blah, blah, blah.
FFS! It was a Sherriff's deputy who did the killing. If anyone can get access to some firearms, his position would be one of the highest.

[Wolf]

Well, didn't my little post go awray !

The purpose of my post was a little tongue-in-cheek.

The gun control lobby often say "only the police and army" should have firearms.

My intent was to quietly remind those people that no end of background checks will ensure that a bad-un doesnt sneak through.
It did not come across like that in your post.

The occasional bad-un getting through the screening is "small bikkies", tho'. The big concern IMO is the large number of stolen/smuggled/home-made weapons in the hands of the crims - and they don't have to be firearms. Some punk entering your house with a machete or a baseball bat is as much of a risk as a punk with a firearm.

[007XX]

Had to laugh at tv1 news this morning, going on about the "six dead massacre" in the USA and how the "lax gun control laws".... blah, blah, blah.
FFS! It was a Sherriff's deputy who did the killing. If anyone can get access to some firearms, his position would be one of the highest.

"i shot the Sherif...ouh ouh, Oooooouuuuuh" :whistle:

And everyone takes up the chorus with me...C'mon, you know you wanna...:clap:

[Swoop]

And everyone takes up the chorus with me...C'mon, you know you wanna...:clap:
Ah, but they did shoot the deputy, apparently...:whistle:

[007XX]

Ah, but they did shoot the deputy, apparently...:whistle:

Bah, technicality :bleh: :laugh:....I just like that song! :p

[Swoop]

Bah, technicality :bleh: :laugh:....I just like that song! :p
Righto then, back on topic!
We do not want to upset the topic of discussion, especially around the heavily armed people who frequent these parts.:whistle:

[007XX]

Righto then, back on topic!
We do not want to upset the topic of discussion, especially around the heavily armed people who frequent these parts.:whistle:

I totally agree...

It just brings me to an interesting point:

My ex has just decided (without discussing it with me first) to buy our son an air riffle for his 10th birthday.

Now because I do not know anything about air rifles, I have not said anything bar taht I would have appreciated being made a part of the decision.

Could you knowledgeable and wonderful men tell me more about the item please?

I think that it would have to be used within a fire range to be safe...Am I incorrect in thinking so?

[Mr Merde]

I totally agree...

It just brings me to an interesting point:

My ex has just decided (without discussing it with me first) to buy our son an air riffle for his 10th birthday.

Now because I do not know anything about air rifles, I have not said anything bar taht I would have appreciated being made a part of the decision.

Could you knowledgeable and wonderful men tell me more about the item please?

I think that it would have to be used within a fire range to be safe...Am I incorrect in thinking so?

As he is under 18 years of age he is not allowed to be in possesion of an air rifle.

He is allowed to use it under supervision though.

An air rifle can be used on a variety of ranges. All provided there is a decent backstop to the tatget. Usual distance is from 10m to 25 meters.

Merde

[007XX]

As he is under 18 years of age he is not allowed to be in possesion of an air rifle.

He is allowed to use it under supervision though.

An air rifle can be used on a variety of ranges. All provided there is a decent backstop to the tatget. Usual distance is from 10m to 25 meters.

Merde

Thank for that, that is very helpful and might help curb my ex's enthusiasm... He does mean well (creating common interest with his son, and all), but he is accidents prone (although he's swear he isn't), which doesn't give me a great deal of confidence in him of course.

How dangerous can an air rifle be? I'm not the over protective type, but I like to know the risks.

[Mr Merde]

....
How dangerous can an air rifle be? I'm not the over protective type, but I like to know the risks.

I have been hunting with an air rifle. It will kill rabbits, birds and possums.

Like all firearms, care needs to be taken. I think its great that someone of his age is being taught to shoot (I was 13 yo when I started) but please make sure the first lesson is the basic safety rules. Check the police web site for the 7 rules of shooting. Bullets or pellets they still are applicable.

A licence is not needed to pocess an air weapon provided the person is over 18. You could keep it locked in a cupboard. At 10 he will definitely only be allowed to use it under supervision.

Merde

[007XX]

I have been hunting with an air rifle. It will kill rabbits, birds and possums.

Like all firearms, care needs to be taken. I think its great that someone of his age is being taught to shoot (I was 13 yo when I started) but please make sure the first lesson is the basic safety rules. Check the police web site for the 7 rules of shooting. Bullets or pellets they still are applicable.

A licence is not needed to pocess an air weapon provided the person is over 18. You could keep it locked in a cupboard. At 10 he will definitely only be allowed to use it under supervision.

Merde

Awesome, thanks for that.

[Wolf]

007, you could supervise your son yourself. A decent solid wooden fence would make a suitable backstop with due care (not shooting over it) or shooting could be done indoors given a long enough room/hallway and a decent protective backstop.

Metal "pellet traps" can be placed directly behind the target as well.

teach proper safety at all times. direct supervision is the key.

[deanohit]

My advice would be to go to the police station and get a copy of the 'arms code', all of you read it and make a test for your son to complete before he gets the rifle. That should give him an idea of the resposibilty of being in possession of an air rifle. It's also good for everyone to know the rules surrounding gun safety. It's not easy to kill some one with an air rifle, but it's very easy to injure some one (and painfull), one of my friends lost an eye when younger after some idiot teens shot at him. As long as you consider him responsible enough to use it safely, let him go for it and have fun.

[007XX]

007, you could supervise your son yourself. A decent solid wooden fence would make a suitable backstop with due care (not shooting over it) or shooting could be done indoors given a long enough room/hallway and a decent protective backstop.

Metal "pellet traps" can be placed directly behind the target as well.

teach proper safety at all times. direct supervision is the key.

I'd like to supervise him myself, but I'd be immediately labelled as the "meddling ex-wife"...I will however get the shooting rules from the police station and make sure I read them with my son.



My advice would be to go to the police station and get a copy of the 'arms code', all of you read it and make a test for your son to complete before he gets the rifle. That should give him an idea of the resposibilty of being in possession of an air rifle. It's also good for everyone to know the rules surrounding gun safety. It's not easy to kill some one with an air rifle, but it's very easy to injure some one (and painfull), one of my friends lost an eye when younger after some idiot teens shot at him. As long as you consider him responsible enough to use it safely, let him go for it and have fun.

Excellent suggestion, thanks.

[Mr Merde]

From the police site.

"
What is an Airgun?

Under the Arms Act 1983, "airgun" includes air rifles, air pistols, BB guns, soft air pellet guns and paintball guns. Essentially, any weapon that has a gas or compressed air firing mechanism is classed as an airgun.
Use of Airguns


Anyone 18 years of age or older can possess and use an airgun.
People under 18 years of age may use an airgun if:
They hold a New Zealand firearms licence* OR
They are under the IMMEDIATE SUPERVISION of a firearms licence holder or a person 18 years of age or older.
Anyone under 16 years of age must always be under the IMMEDIATE SUPERVISION of a firearms licence holder or a person 18 years of age or older.*Note: Note: You must be 16 years of age or older to apply for a New Zealand firearms licence.
"IMMEDIATE SUPERVISION" means that the licensed or older person is within reach and in control of the person using the airgun. The person providing the supervision cannot be in possession or control of another firearm or airgun.
Young Airgun Owners

If you are 16 or 17 you can see the Arms Officer at a Police station about getting a licence. The Arms Officer will give you a free copy of the Arms Code, which is a book about firearm safety.
You will be asked to give the names of 2 people, one a close relative. The Police will ask these people if you are a suitable person to use and possess firearms.
You will also be asked to attend a firearms safety lecture. These lectures are run by instructors from the Mountain Safety Council. Then you sit a written test and, if you pass, the instructor will issue you a certificate. The results of your test will be passed on to the Arms Officer.
If the Arms Officer considers you a fit and proper person they will issue you with your firearms licence.
Safe Storage of Airguns

IMPORTANT: An airgun can cause serious injury if used incorrectly.
When you are not using your airgun, it should be locked away in a safe place inaccessible to children.
Fully Automatic Airguns

Police have warned people who already own fully automatic airguns they are breaking the law unless they have a firearms licence with a Restricted Weapons endorsement. Although the guns are only air powered, their firing mechanism means they are restricted weapons.
They fire hundreds of rounds a minute and some will punch hole in a piece of gib-board in a few seconds.
They are definitely not toys.
If owners of who already own airguns modify their weapons to make them semiautomatic, they would not need to take any further action but if the weapon remains fully automatic, then it is a Restricted Weapon, which means they have to get a firearms licence with the correct endorsement and have secure storage facilities. This concession does not apply to airguns which are not already in New Zealand as at 1 January 2004.
Paintball Airguns

Police do not advocate shooting at any person with an airgun. However, in the case of paintball marker games where the object may be to shoot your opponents, strict safety guidelines must be adhered to.
Organised games and competitions are available in New Zealand, usually at commercial game fields. The operators of these fields adhere to a voluntary code of practice, including the application of strict safety measures.
More information is available from the New Zealand Paintball Players Association Incorporated. e-mail: info@paintball.gen.nz
Set up a Range

To get the most fun out of your airgun, in a safe and responsible way, set up a properly constructed range in your backyard or basement. Your range must have a backstop like a solid fence or wall and no one should be able to walk between the target and your airgun while you are shooting.
There should be a "pellet trap", such as a cardboard box full of sand, with the target fixed to it.
Thought should be given to where the pellet will go if it misses the target or ricochets off paths, walls and other hard surfaces.
Penalties

You will have to be responsible about how you use your airgun, otherwise you could face stiff penalties.

If you carry an airgun or even possess it without a lawful purpose, you could be fined $4000 and/or imprisoned for up to 3 years.
Careless use of an airgun may bring a fine of $4000 and /or up to 3 years in prison.
Firing an airgun in a way that may endanger, annoy or frighten anyone or harm property could mean you are fined $3000 and/or are imprisoned for up to 3 months.
For unlawfully pointing an airgun at someone, you could be fined $1000 and/or spend up to 3 years in prison.
If you sell or supply an airgun to an unlicensed person under 18, you could be fined $1000 and /or imprisoned for up to 3 months. This could happen when an adult buys a child an airgun as a gift.The 7 Basic Rules of Firearm Safety


Treat every firearm as loaded
Always point firearms in a safe direction
Load a firearm only when ready to fire
Identify your target
Check your firing zone
Store firearms and ammunition safely
Avoid alcohol or drugs when handling firearms "
I hope this helps

Merde

[Delerium]

http://www.thebriefingroom.com/archives/2007/08/the_gun_debate.html#more

I think it makes him look uable to prove viable evidence that backs his claims. When the figures are about to disprove his argument he refuses to get into debate. Like interviewing a 12 year old.

[Delerium]

Regarding the airgun.. I was introduced to them at about that age too. Always under the instruction of my dad. Later on I used them to shoot pests. Some are getting fairly powerful these days and many are capable of causing injury or even death to people. They are not toys.

[007XX]

Cheers guys... I really appreciate the feedback. I've printed up the rules and will be going over them with my son as soon as the present has been given to him.

[deanohit]

Cool, should be fun fun for you all.Like Wolf said, with a pellet trap (from a hunting store) you could easily have a range in your back yard as long as there is a solid fence behind for any wild shots.