The firearm thread [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

doc

22nd January 2007, 19:46

Just got inside , my daughters partners and I had been out with a very needy Jack Russel went for a walk for about an hour around the boundary of a neighbours farm. He mentioned after picking up hay last night rabbits numbers getting up. This dog sleeps on the bed and lives inside. Well after 4 large Possums, 2 Hares and three rabbits, his breath stinks worse that ever and he is now looked at with a bit more respect. Tomorrow got to sort out a problem with an escaped Captain cooker/Duroc cross piglet about 3 months old that escaped before christmas been hanging out with same neighbours weaners but disturbs cows each time they go past to milking. Leaving to go Woodstock Rally on thursday so have to catch pig or shoot the little buggar nieghbour wife sick of the interuptions at milking time. Plus find out that they had to get a professional in 1 km away to destroy 12 escaped farmed deer that were trashing maize on a lease block, they reckon the cost was quite reasonable only 400 bucks. For god sake you have to pay people now to shoot deer, Very few people on our Peninsular have a firearm I'm waiting for the day that the police turn up because I've been out shooting and a neighbour complains, can't fire blackpowder or the ole 7.62 stuff anymore too many neighbours, and people think you are a redneck if you have gun up here nowdays. The PC bullshit continues probably won't be able to use a chainsaw soon noise pollution or something.
Sort of getting the feeling the monopoly want firearms out or only used at a licenced shooting range after paying suitable fees of course.

Fatjim

22nd January 2007, 19:51

Since everybody else seems to have completely ignored Spankee's plea to stay on topic I'm going to veer to the right myself.

IF YOUR EYES ARE TOO CLOSE TOGETHER YOU SHOULDN'T BE ALLOWED TO OWN A FIREARM.

The_Dover

22nd January 2007, 19:52

I have a highly illegal large caliber spunk rifle, perfect for hunting pussy.

It's lethal in the wrong hands. More so in the right ones.

Guitana

22nd January 2007, 19:55

Does a paintball gun count as a firearm?

Shit yeah if you freeze the paintballs!!!!

Skyryder

22nd January 2007, 20:07

I had a firearms licence since I was old enough but got rid of my firearms and chucked my licence in when they started all this anti gun behaviour in the Government and the bloody police.

They sure got it wrong for the law abiding and right for the criminally minded in my opinion, it's easier not to register. :nono: Fuckwits! John.

Yea me too. Never minded the registration thing, just the bloody cost.

Skyryder

Drunken Monkey

22nd January 2007, 20:11

I like to keep a few handy just incase society breaks down and anarchy ensues. Survivalists are only considered crazy by others while law and order is maintained.

Skyryder

22nd January 2007, 20:13

I have a highly illegal large caliber spunk rifle, perfect for hunting pussy.

It's lethal in the wrong hands. More so in the right ones.

So what's your favourite pick up line......... "Make my day?"

Skyryder

Blackbuell

22nd January 2007, 20:14

The Browning Distributor in NZ is a company called Cameron Sports Imports,they are a wholesaler on the shore.

paveho

22nd January 2007, 20:16

Anyone know who the NZ browning importer is? I need an extractor spring for an auto-22.

Don't know if you're talking pistol or rifle. The one that I have is for a .22 pistol. Brand new, never been used. PM me if you are interested.

The_Dover

22nd January 2007, 20:18

So what's your favourite pick up line......... "Make my day?"

Skyryder

nah, i just flash my piece and the bitches get on their knees begging for mercy.

doc

22nd January 2007, 20:18

I have a highly illegal large caliber spunk rifle, perfect for hunting pussy.

It's lethal in the wrong hands. More so in the right ones.
I've heard that it has a hair trigger ie very light pull and it goes off.

The_Dover

22nd January 2007, 20:20

I've heard that it has a hair trigger ie very light pull and it goes off.

yeah, but it's an semi-auto firing in three shot bursts with a thirty round mag.

not like those old fuckin muzzle loading muskets that are spent after one round and take twenty minutes to reload.

Mumbles

22nd January 2007, 20:37

lithgow slr L1A1 308 semi auto dated 1963 x vietnam
and sks semi auto 7.62.39 which is my hunting rifle the rest for target shooting
and if anyone has a spare dust cover for the slr i'm in need of one

I might have one down here for sale... will have to take a look to see if I have another back up. Def have one which has a scope mount as part of the cover PM me about it

Love my A, B & E cat toys, cost about as much to run as the dam bike (just about to pay for some new disks and other stuff as got a fail WOF from AFC Motorcycles here is Palmerston) :angry:

Hay just got my baby back from getting a "makeover" havent had a chance to site it in yet! :love:

doc

22nd January 2007, 20:38

yeah, but it's an semi-auto firing in three shot bursts with a thirty round mag.

not like those old fuckin muzzle loading muskets that are spent after one round and take twenty minutes to reload.Thats the beauty of the large calibres one shot is enough.

doc

22nd January 2007, 20:40

I might have one down here for sale... will have to take a look to see if I have another back up. Def have one which has a scope mount as part of the cover PM me about it

Love my A, B & E cat toys, cost about as much to run as the dam bike (just about to pay for some new disks and other stuff as got a fail WOF from AFC Motorcycles here is Palmerston) :angry:

Hay just got my baby back from getting a "makeover" havent had a chance to site it in yet! :love:
Not being critical but why do that to a SLR ?

The_Dover

22nd January 2007, 20:45

Not being critical but why do that to a SLR ?

you've got to do something to disguise it's belgian origins.

beige slacks anyone? (not you grandad, they're a bit to "hip" and "funky" for your generation)

Mumbles

22nd January 2007, 21:08

Not being critical but why do that to a SLR ?

Brought her as a bitza, wooden butt stock, plastic fore end, last owner treated her bad wouldn’t clean or even run oil over her:gob: . So I gave her a big clean up then thrashed the barrel with a few thousand jacked rounds got sick of the un accurateness of my eyesight:shutup: , so put a scope on her, more shooting with a few goats in there at some point ... Ahhh the old 3 gun shooting brings a smile to me every time I think about it.:yes:

Anyhow priced up original woodwork and then decided on a Bell and Carlson stock from the US got offered the shorter barrel at less than cost, so went with my wallet (less spent on the fix means more ammo down range). Milspec to return it to something of its original color as I removed most of the blueing when I was getting rid of the rust…

Don’t get me wrong, would love to have kept it original, but then would probably not have shot it.

Squeak the Rat

22nd January 2007, 21:22

Bloody psycho gun owners...

While people are asking for bits, anyone know where I can get a speed loader for a SKS?

Mumbles

22nd January 2007, 21:26

try trademe or www.guncity.co.nz always have stuff there

SpankMe

22nd January 2007, 21:29

Ixion

22nd January 2007, 21:35

Bloody hell. Puts a whole new context on the retort "You and whose army?".

All this fire power, and we're still stuck with Helen. Buncha wimps.

Mumbles

22nd January 2007, 21:36

you've got to do something to disguise it's belgian origins.

Yea but in battle conditions I'd take it over ....Styer, AR15, M16, G3, and even the mini 14 (all of these guns I have had stoppages while using them) no stoppages with the L1 (or the old SKS or AK just to short a round) I love the 308 - hide behind the tree? :dodge: shoot through the tree!

Mumbles

22nd January 2007, 21:45

Learnt how to convert an SLR to full auto with a matchstick when I was in the army. Haven't tried it myself thou.

Was given a full auto conversion piece of metal for my Ruger 10/22 by a friend. Turned out to be pretty useless.

Guys I know who used these in the army used to push the selector around one more place, no match stick required (3 speed box) :nono: just don't get caught

Got a mate with the book for the full auto on the 10/22, got it when he was in the states, saw a video of him using one, kept on jamming. not for me. already on my second 10/22 after running my other one down, grown up a bit now :shutup:

BarBender

22nd January 2007, 21:48

Tikka 270
Winchester 3030
Browning 22
Heaps of rounds

Holla back if you see any wild pigs in your area. :ar15:

0arbreaka

22nd January 2007, 22:35

What do you need?? Price is reflected by availability and cost price.....

Dai

22nd January 2007, 22:45

Learnt how to convert an SLR to full auto with a matchstick when I was in the army. Haven't tried it myself thou.

Was given a full auto conversion piece of metal for my Ruger 10/22 by a friend. Turned out to be pretty useless.

I learnt the same. It works but it means as soon as you pull the trigger you loose off the whole mag. Bit of a waste.

Brought some of my books back from the UK. Amongst them was one by Paladin Press with full instructions how to build a trigger unit for the 10/22. Doesnt take long or many tools. TUrns that particular carbine into select fire. 1200 rpm.

Strictly for educational purposes of course.

Steam

22nd January 2007, 22:47

Dai

22nd January 2007, 22:48

Yea but in battle conditions I'd take it over ....Styer, AR15, M16, G3, and even the mini 14 (all of these guns I have had stoppages while using them) no stoppages with the L1 (or the old SKS or AK just to short a round) I love the 308 - hide behind the tree? :dodge: shoot through the tree!

Mate of mine served in the first Gulf War. Found the SA80 didnt have the reach in the distances they operated at.

His unit (Pioneers) was reissued with the SLR/FN.

Dooly

23rd January 2007, 07:57

Got half a dozen or so WW1 & WW2 British and German rifles, plus a pumpy shotty and a Winchester rifle.
Hardly ever used them, but now our new place backs onto a forest its great just jumping the fence and blasting away at trees etc.
Love the noise of big calibre rifles!

BrianNZ

23rd January 2007, 12:39

So, for the end of the world, what's the best commonly available gun to protect my family and stash of food/fuel in our suburban fortress? Sawn off shotgun for close-in fighting? Or a good trusty hunting rifle to pick off the starving raiders as they close in?

Suburban fortress?.....A pump shotgun with a red-dot, loaded with 00's backed up with a machete.

SpankMe

23rd January 2007, 12:57

Fatjim

23rd January 2007, 13:15

Learnt how to convert an SLR to full auto with a matchstick when I was in the army. Haven't tried it myself thou.

Was given a full auto conversion piece of metal for my Ruger 10/22 by a friend. Turned out to be pretty useless.

Yeah they jam too much, especially with cheap ammo.

i call mine the David Baine special. An yes, I could shoot myself in the head with the silencer on it.

Fatjim

23rd January 2007, 13:17

a .410 gauge is more appropriate for home defence (http://www.endtimesreport.com/homedefense.html). Less likely to penetrate walls when family is on the other side.

I have a .410 side by side with external hammers. Nothings louder when shooting rifled slugs :D

surely a rifled slug would go through the wall. You'd be better off with a nice spicy brew of salt and pepper. Then you could say you attacked the guy with 12 gauge condiments.

SpankMe

23rd January 2007, 13:20

Fatjim

23rd January 2007, 13:21

i think you must clean yours :)

jrandom

23rd January 2007, 13:23

It's less reliable when you use the 25/50 round banana clips...

But there's just something special about pulling the trigger 50 times in a row, isn't there?

I want an M2 Browning.

Fatjim

23rd January 2007, 13:25

You can get a 200 round mag for the Ruger 10/22. Now why would than be any more dangerous than a 10 round mag.

jrandom

23rd January 2007, 13:29

You can get a 200 round mag for the Ruger 10/22. Now why would than be any more dangerous than a 10 round mag.

Well, you'd catch your trouser cuffs on it if you swung it around too far, to start with.

Fatjim

23rd January 2007, 13:31

Think circles, not rectangles

jrandom

23rd January 2007, 13:32

Think circles, not rectangles

Oh, of course.

Still, bags not being the one to load it by hand.

SpankMe

23rd January 2007, 13:37

I've got a Bingham PPS50 (http://www.gunfax.com/rimfires/rimfires.htm) (mine has a silver finish) with 50 round drum. I brought it from Harmony House. It's pretty useless as it jams every few rounds. The drum mag it poked so it's of no use.

I want to order a clip mag for it but you can only get 20 round mags and A cat only allows 15 rounds.

Finn

23rd January 2007, 13:59

Guitana

23rd January 2007, 14:21

So, for the end of the world, what's the best commonly available gun to protect my family and stash of food/fuel in our suburban fortress? Sawn off shotgun for close-in fighting? Or a good trusty hunting rifle to pick off the starving raiders as they close in?

Well if you can find one the best would be a chinese Ak47-norinco there was a flood of these into NZ before the law was changed on mssa's. They are the best choice for CQB or close quarters combat!Very reliable don't usually jam (unlike the m16 and ar15 the yanks use more jams than a garage band!)The ammo is very cheap to buy and if the Chinese or other communist countries invade us the parts will be readily available!!!! For the long distance any high calibre hunting rifle for the long shots european models are pretty reliable -Sako-Tikka-Brno all well tested during the war in Yugoslavia the german made rifles are probably the most accurate.Good optics are the key a good scope is essential,Snipers were hitting targets at some huge distances!!

Good luck with your survival plans!!

doc

23rd January 2007, 14:22

Would that pig fit in my letterbox too?

Just got home heading up there 3.30 to try to lure it with the calves into an area that we hope to catch the little prick, he's about as big as a medium sized dog.
Taking a clapped out .22 stirling semi with no mag and the ole .410 with a couple of slugs, all depends on what we use and what bits will fit in your letterbox, hoping we are clever enough to catch him. You can't always out smart the pigs you must know that. I've seen them running around in town.

GR81

23rd January 2007, 14:59

i own a .22 semi auto rifle, can't for the life of me remember what brand/make it is tho lol
was some cheap package deal hunting and fishing did a year or so ago.

great for taking out hundreds of unsuspecting possums tho ;)

McJim

23rd January 2007, 15:16

SpankMe

23rd January 2007, 15:22

Has anyone tried firing 45 shells in a .410 shotgun? Apparently possible, but I wouldn't want to try it. Not too much fun having a firearm blow up in ya face. Some firearms are made to take both and I've even seen a .410 revolver. My .410 side by side shotgun would make a cool 45 double rifle but not too acurate with smooth bores.

Speaking of firearms blowing up. Had a guy in the army at basic forget to take his BFA off when the order came through to load live ammo. The barrel of his SLR split open like a banana skin. The guy was luckly the receiver didn't blow back into his face.

jrandom

23rd January 2007, 15:38

How easy is it to get a licence and a gun in this country?

Piece of piss (http://www.police.govt.nz/service/firearms/), mate.

Worth doing. This country has some great places to go hunting.

[Edit: What do you mean, 'a gun'? Nobody has a gun. You can never stop at just one.]

scumdog

23rd January 2007, 15:39

Has anyone tried firing 45 shells in a .410 shotgun? Apparently possible, but I wouldn't want to try it. Not too much fun having a firearm blow up in ya face.

The above works (but not accurate) although getting the shells out after firing can be a sod as they are rimless:yes: .

A lot depends on the quality/condition of your shotgun.

Jimmy B

23rd January 2007, 15:40

The Ruger 10/22 is the most reliable .22 semi-auto you can buy. The .22 cartridge is pretty dirty with the amount of muck it leaves in the chamber, but the 10/22 just keeps firing so long as you use the stock rotary magazine. It's less reliable when you use the 25/50 round banana clips that are available.

In my youth owned one of these and agree totally. 50 Round mag was a pain to load and tended to missfeed on a regular basis, best to stick with the stock rotary as you say. Only problems with the 10/22 was when using quicker rounds like xpediter. Would be very unusualy not to get a jam within 10 shots or so. Standard supersonic like rabbit ammo etc no worries

Guitana

23rd January 2007, 16:36

How easy is it to get a licence and a gun in this country?

Back in the UK only single shot weapons are available to the public and that's with extensive checks/expenditure/waiting lists/more checks.

If there's even a hint that you might have a gun that can fire more than one bullet without reloading the armed offenders squad turn up with orders shoot to kill (I knew of a guy got shot dead for having a chair leg in a shopping bag :()

Yeah Jim it's pretty easy to get your firearms licence in NZ pay your money to the establishment and do a mountain safety course and youre licenced to kill!!They do check your background out, you know any mental illness etc and you need to have a gun safe or lockable cabinet to store your weapons of mass destruction!
Bummer about getting blown away for brandishing a chairleg!! They do the same here in NZ for golf clubs,weight lifting bars etc.
It would appear a golf club looks very similar to a rifle!!
Go and see your local arms officer at the NZ police and get some forms then join the rest of us unhinged gun owners in NZ the more the merrier!!!!

Skyryder

23rd January 2007, 18:33

Suburban fortress?.....A pump shotgun with a red-dot, loaded with 00's backed up with a machete.

...................and useing reloads with parafin filler............that'll stop anything moving.

Slyryder

Mumbles

23rd January 2007, 19:25

I want to order a clip mag for it but you can only get 20 round mags and A cat only allows 15 rounds.
As long as its not plastic if you can get a 20 get the 20! you can take it into a gun smith or someone else who knows about metal and get them to make it smaller, I not sure if you can get a mag pined, but you could always ask the locial arms officer.

Lou Girardin

23rd January 2007, 19:49

Storm

23rd January 2007, 19:59

Speaking of firearms blowing up. Had a guy in the army at basic forget to take his BFA off when the order came through to load live ammo. The barrel of his SLR split open like a banana skin. The guy was luckly the receiver didn't blow back into his face.

Yeah, I've heard of more than one retard whose shot live through a steyr BFA. They must have seen a few like your idiot, because now it just shoots straight through the BFA with a bloody great noise

Swoop

23rd January 2007, 21:35

Mate of mine served in the first Gulf War. Found the SA80 didnt have the reach in the distances they operated at.

His unit (Pioneers) was reissued with the SLR/FN.

I believe it had nothing to do with "reach".
Reliability was more of the question. Units knew that 2 rounds fired would be the maximum before jamming (if lucky)...
Over 50 problems were discovered with the SA80, particularly where operating in a dusty/sandy environment.
Bayonet: 5 million pounds to develop - at least 4 modifications.
Rifle: 500 million pounds to develop - heavier than L1A1.

jrandom

23rd January 2007, 21:42

Am I pissing off any NRA members yet?

No. We're getting hard-ons.

scumdog

23rd January 2007, 21:45

I believe it had nothing to do with "reach".
Reliability was more of the question. Units knew that 2 rounds fired would be the maximum before jamming (if lucky)...
Over 50 problems were discovered with the SA80, particularly where operating in a dusty/sandy environment.
Bayonet: 5 million pounds to develop - at least 4 modifications.
Rifle: 500 million pounds to develop - heavier than L1A1.

The sintered manufactured hammer caused a lot of problems, they failed with amazing regularity - and it wasn't an easy field-fix either.

Dai

23rd January 2007, 21:45

To slightly go off topic.

Does anyone out there know of a good stock maker, one that doesnt insist on breaking the bank.

I have rebuilt a Remington Rolling Block original action and had it rebarreled with a 34" full octagonal badger unit. .45-70 caliber

I have the long range creedmore rear sight and the globe front ready to go on.

All I need is to have a butt stock and forearm made.

I have the loan of an other original 1874 RB with which to pattern the needed stock.

Anyone out there please help.

scumdog

23rd January 2007, 21:48

I love guns.
I love stroking their cool blued metal.
I love the way they tell me that I don't need to take it anymore.
I love the way they make me feel so .......................................Powerful.

Am I pissing off any NRA members yet?

Nah - ya sound like some warped version of Alice Cooper from Million Doller babies doing "I Love the Dead"!!!

scumdog

23rd January 2007, 21:50

Dai

23rd January 2007, 21:54

Tonight I just purchased another handgun.

.22 Margolin (not the target version) Margo.

Threaded for a gentlemans quietener. Came with 4 spare magazines.

Tried it out at the range and was accused of using an air pistol.

I guess my ears are safe for a while now.

Total cost $150.

Very pleased with my find.

In November I found and purchased an origonal 1861 Ballard Carbine in 56-56 caliber. Brought to NZ by the US soldier who carried it during the Civil War.

SpankMe

23rd January 2007, 21:58

Nice looking handgun. Thought about getting my B cat once. But too many restrictions to make it worthwhile.

Dai

23rd January 2007, 22:03

Nice looking handgun. Thought about getting my B cat once. But too many restrictions to make it worthwhile.

Always wanted a silenced pistol. Now have my wish. My model has had the front sight moved back a little to allow for the threading.

Hoping soon to get C and E cat licences.

Now have 5 handguns.

.22 as mentioned,

2x .44 Mag single action revolvers, for CAS competitions

2 x .44 cap and ball Uberti replica 1858 Remington revolvers, these I am going to get Kirst Konverter Cylinders for and so be able to shoot .45 Colt cartridges with. nominal bore of barrel is .454"

0arbreaka

24th January 2007, 14:23

Now to make a list of what firearms I own;

.30 M1 Carbine Para (folding stock and pistol grip, 5 x 15 round clips)
12ga side by side (sum old french thing my late grandfather left me)
.22 TOZ single shot (bunny gun)
.308 SLR (bloody brilliant condition)
.308 Remmington sniper rifle + big frikin expensive scope too

Wouldnt mind getting my B cat, but I dont have any space left in the safe...

jrandom

24th January 2007, 14:38

Wouldnt mind getting my B cat, but I dont have any space left in the safe...

A decent pistol safe is < $200.

G'wan g'wan g'wan g'wan...

Sniper

24th January 2007, 14:42

.308 Remmington sniper rifle + big frikin expensive scope too

Wouldnt mind getting my B cat, but I dont have any space left in the safe...

If I can ask, what sort of "sniper" rifle is it.

Like Fish says, Bcat safes can be very cheap, you just need to look around

0arbreaka

24th January 2007, 14:51

Its a remington 700 PSS .308, Ive got a Leupold Mark 4 on it at the moment, which is pretty good.

0arbreaka

24th January 2007, 14:55

Its also too much trouble these days going through the paces to get a B cat, in my opinion its not worth the trouble.

jrandom

24th January 2007, 15:03

I've posted my gun list before, but here it is again in its current state:

Mosin Nagant Model 38 (7.62x54R)
Mauser Kar98K (8x57JS)
Norinco JW-14 (.22LR)
Ruger 10/22 (.22LR)
Marlin 336 (30-30 Win)
Akkar Mariner (18" 12-gauge pump)
Marlin Camp Carbine (.45ACP, ported and suppressed)

I'm a few months off my B endorsement, at which point I'll be immediately adding a Ruger Mk II/III and... something else.

If I had infinite funds, I'd buy an STI Edge, but that just ain't gonna happen.

I'm really starting to lean toward a Glock 35. At $1350 retail, I could buy a lot of practice ammo with the several hundred dollars I'd save over any of the other serious options.

Ever since I found out about what's happened to SIGs, quality-wise, since they stopped being fully German-produced, I've gone off the idea of a gun with my name on it. An STI Trojan in .38 Super is my current pick from the $2K price bracket.

My next rifle will be a Savage Weather Warrior in .243, one of their package deals with a 3-7X Bushnell, which will be immediately pimped out with a bipod and a fat-arse MAE suppressor.

Sigh. I need more billable after-hours contracts.

0arbreaka

24th January 2007, 15:09

scumdog

24th January 2007, 15:17

what do you think of the camp carbine? I was looking into getting a non suppressed one last year and sending it off to get suppressed at MAE, but I had to make a decision to either get the bike or the gun.
Who you calling camp duckie???

They're a short range only weapon (like 100 yards max) and even then marginal on dropping say a large goat at that point.
I'd stick to 50 yards tops for consistant kills, use hollow-points:yes: .

But suppressed it'll be a bunch of fun.

jrandom

24th January 2007, 15:19

what do you think of the camp carbine? I was looking into getting a non suppressed one last year and sending it off to get suppressed...

Were you planning on 9mm, or .45? It's aiight, I guess. I only have it because I inherited it from a friend with different, er, 'priorities', who happened to lose his FL.

I've had quite a few failure-to-feed issues when the action isn't kept clean and lubed. It's not a 100%-reliable SHTF gun, that's for sure. It does take standard 1911 mags, which is one point in its favour.

I dunno, really. I just don't feel the need. I wouldn't drop the dollars on one, myself. For the same money you can have a very nice Savage or Remington in a proper calibre that can reach out and touch something more than 50m away. If I wasn't keeping it 'in trust', I would have flicked it on ages ago.

Perfect sheep poacher's gun, of course, and it's kind of fun being able to shoot .45ACP at cans in the backyard without disturbing the neighbours.

0arbreaka

24th January 2007, 15:20

wouldnt have it any other way, its gota be silenced. Used to have an air rifle but that got stolen a while back and that was good fun shooting cans in the back yard, so I can only imagine what a .45 would be like..

Dai

24th January 2007, 15:32

So what do I have in my cupboard/ safes?

Norinco JW15 .22
M1 Carbine .30
Rossi 92 .44 mag
Winchester 30-30
Wheatherby .223
Ballard 1861 Carbine .56-56
Remington Rolling Block 45-70
" " " "
Stirling .22 M20 rifle

12 Gauge Sxs Hammer gun 16" barrels
12 Guage SxS Hammerless 18"barrels
12 Guage Single shot 28: barrels
12 Guage Baikel hamerless 30" barrel
12 Gauage Lever Action Shotgun 1887 Winchester copy

2 x .44 Weirauch single action revolvers
2 x .44 1858 Remington clone BP cap and ball revolvers
1 Margo .22 semi auto pistol with "gentlemans quietener"

I think thats all but soon I will have the girlfriends two .357 revolvers, rifle and shotgun to look after also.

Chaosmage

24th January 2007, 15:46

My father has rifles, shotguns & bows.

Please add bows to the options :) as I have a 70lb compound bow. Whilst technically not in the firearm catagory it puts me in the armed catagory.

Storm

24th January 2007, 16:47

So I gather you met the missus at a gun convention Dai?
Or was it at the ammo store? :D

doc

24th January 2007, 16:57

I think thats all but soon I will have the girlfriends two .357 revolvers, rifle and shotgun to look after also.
Faaaark me what sort of big block Harley does she ride I bet it's a kickstart too?

dawnrazor

24th January 2007, 17:22

Why does this Thread warrant a sticky, apart from the fact that spankme started it and I guess its his site and so on and so forth...

what was I thinking....

maybe next we can have the "nazi memorbilia" thread and really live up to peoples reconcieved prejudices....

Dai

24th January 2007, 21:45

So I gather you met the missus at a gun convention Dai?
Or was it at the ammo store? :D

LOL

Make all my own ammo.

She who must be obeyed has come around to the shooting sports on her own. I never pushed.

I compete in Cowboy Action Shooting and she started coming along to cheer me along. From there she got into the costuming side of it and since has had some of the other shooters teach her how to use the three types of firearms. She is still a bit nervous of a 12 guage though.

Anyone know of a 16 guage SxS going cheap. Hammerless or hammered.

One of my shooting buddies has almost 100 rifles and about 30 pistols. Another has 1/2 dozen machine guns including a .50 Browning.

Another has a 20mm Orlikon.

Supprised me how many guns were actually in this country.

In the UK I had 15 pistols and 6 rifles. All used in diferent competitions.

Clivoris

24th January 2007, 21:47

I think thats all but soon I will have the girlfriends two .357 revolvers, rifle and shotgun to look after also.

Maate. If she looks anything like Kelly off CSI Miami (she likes guns too), I am :sick: with jealousy.

Dai

24th January 2007, 21:50

Maate. If she looks anything like Kelly off CSI Miami (she likes guns too), I am :sick: with jealousy.

I thank you for that.

Personally I think she looks better and I tell her so.

Dont we all do this?

I didnt get to be 50 years old without learning that a little charm and a few compliments go a very long way when dealing with "her indoors"

Swoop

25th January 2007, 09:53

I didnt get to be 50 years old without learning that a little charm and a few compliments go a very long way when dealing with "her indoors"
With "her indoors" armed with 2 X .357's, behaving yourself would be sensible decision... :rofl:

Edit: I am now having visions of you being the Clint Eastwood type in the bullet catcher movie (can't remember name at moment), where Clint and this FBI partner start getting hot and steamy and there is a trail of firearms, comms, handcuffs, etc all the way to the bed!!!
Phone rings for a call to duty and he comes out with the line "Damn, I gotta put all that crap back on!" :lol:

Guitana

25th January 2007, 14:42

Want some serious firepower check this out!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.thehumorarchives.com/joke/Quite_a_kick

gijoe1313

25th January 2007, 21:44

With "her indoors" armed with 2 X .357's, behaving yourself would be sensible decision... :rofl:

Edit: I am now having visions of you being the Clint Eastwood type in the bullet catcher movie (can't remember name at moment), where Clint and this FBI partner start getting hot and steamy and there is a trail of firearms, comms, handcuffs, etc all the way to the bed!!!
Phone rings for a call to duty and he comes out with the line "Damn, I gotta put all that crap back on!" :lol:

That would be "In the line of fire" :sherlock: Where's Indy? He's chanelling the 80's/90's stuff!

Swoop

25th January 2007, 21:48

That would be "In the line of fire" :sherlock: Where's Indy? He's chanelling the 80's/90's stuff!

That's the one!

crash harry

26th January 2007, 10:42

Want some serious firepower check this out!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.thehumorarchives.com/joke/Quite_a_kick

Most of them are leaning out of the shot, that's why they get thrown back so far. Amateurs. Having said that, a rifle with a recoil like that is a recipe for shoulder separation - it's happened to more than one person firing .50 BMG from a rest without a muzzle brake.

My cabinet is looking a bit thinner now, just sold my .223, still got the 12g and the .22 in there though, along with a mate's 12g and .22, and his .270.
Looking to get me a 30/30 carbine, either a marlin or a winchester when I get back from the UK. Wouldn't mind a 444 either. I've always been into the more oddball calibres for some reason. Couldn't see myself hunting with a .308 or .270 because it's just too normal. Maybe 7mm08, or .25 Souper. But then I'd have to roll my own ammo, and I'm not sure if I'm dedicated enough for that.

jrandom

26th January 2007, 12:23

Couldn't see myself hunting with a .308 or .270 because it's just too normal...

You, sir, need something in 8x57JS.

There was a 1934 K98 with matching serial numbers up on TardMe recently for a mere $2,500 or so. Cheap at 'arf the price.

My '43 K98 is a tubshite bucket o' bits, which is why I got it for $750.

crash harry

31st January 2007, 19:25

You, sir, need something in 8x57JS.

There was a 1934 K98 with matching serial numbers up on TardMe recently for a mere $2,500 or so. Cheap at 'arf the price.

My '43 K98 is a tubshite bucket o' bits, which is why I got it for $750.

I have to admit I'd never considered 8x57. 7x57 I'd thought about, and there was a 7.62x54R that I was looking at at one stage, but I dunno. A mate just bought one of those Rossi Pomba things in .270. Nice unit, I reckon it's gonna kick like a bastard though, it weighs nothing. One of those in .308, rebarrelled to .358 Win would be an entertaining little rifle I think. Maybe that would be a cool project...

I dunno, I kinda like the bigger bore cartriges though, you know what they say about the big, slow cartriges - same energy, more bleeding, and less meat damage than the faster small bores. That's why I like the idea of .444 for some reason. That and I don't really need a long-range cartridge because my long-range shooting is miserable... ;) I'll probably end up with a 30/30 though because I'm a frikkin hillbilly at heart!

jrandom

31st January 2007, 19:57

7.62x54R

Mosin Nagants are just as cheap and abundant as SMLEs, and great fun to shoot. Everyone should own at least one.

Don't buy a Dragunov, though. Tacky.

less meat damage...

Ever shot something with a .30 calibre FMJ? It can be a bit cruel if you're not 100% on bullet placement, but it certainly saves meat. I lost an entire hindquarter off a goat once from a stray 7.62x54R soft point.

I'll probably end up with a 30/30 though...

A vastly underrated cartridge in NZ. It deserves its popularity as the #1 North American medium-game cartridge.

If you want something a little different, why not build up a varmint rifle in one of the wildcat .22 calibres? .220 Swift, .218 Bee and .204 Ruger come to mind.

Dai

31st January 2007, 20:12

....

A vastly underrated cartridge in NZ. It deserves its popularity as the #1 North American medium-game cartridge....

I had a handgun chambered for this caliber (30-30). Great fun to use. I have a '94 winchester chambered for it and it is a lovely rifle.

Dai

31st January 2007, 20:48

With my injured back making it very hard to ride the bike I decided that I should sit down at my workbench and load some rounds for my firearms.

20 kg of lead and wheelweights.

I have made approx 1000 projectiles for the .44 magnums. Half of these I have already made up into finished rounds with 25 gns by volume of Black powder and topped off with semolina as a filler.

These are my competition rifle rounds.

Tomorrow I will finish off by making up 600 .44 special BP rounds with 20 gn by vol and semolina filler.

I also put together 100 rounds for my M1 carbine. Playing with the loading here.

the .223 was next and I made 80 of these to a very exact tolerance so as to bring my stock back to 100 match rounds.

I preped 300 30-30 cases and they are next on my to do list.

Need to cast 100 .58 caliber balls for my frontstuffer and a couple of hundred .454 ball for the C & B handguns.

Prepped a couple of hundred 12 guage cases. Need to get another kilo of BP this weekend.

It has been a very pleasant time sitting and being productive.

I need to order some .30 carbine heads. Somewhere in Christchurch is a dealer who sells projectiles. I have heard that .30 carbine are about $90 per thousand. I need 800 to use up all my brass in that caliber.

My aim is to not have an empty case in my workshop for any caliber I have a firearm for.

COme the revolution/uprising/rebellion/competition dont come knocking on my door with any nasty ideas. I'm going hunting/shooting/bush/competition.

I wont be there.

Still planning on firing the .56 Ballard. I need to have some brass rod put on the lathe and cases made for it. Simple job as it is a straight wall case with a rim. need about a meter of 22mm dia. brass.

jrandom

1st February 2007, 10:55

With my injured back making it very hard to ride the bike I decided that I should sit down at my workbench and load some rounds for my firearms.

What flavour of press do you use?

Fulla at the gunshop's trying to get me to buy a Dillon (http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=12&dyn=1&cookieClean=1). Tempting, as I plan to put a few hundred rounds per week through my IPSC rig in due course, and I don't fancy spending multiple hours reloading every weekend. I certainly can't afford to shoot that much centerfire factory ammo!

Dai

1st February 2007, 11:26

What flavour of press do you use?

Fulla at the gunshop's trying to get me to buy a Dillon (http://dillonprecision.com/template/p.cfm?maj=12&dyn=1&cookieClean=1). Tempting, as I plan to put a few hundred rounds per week through my IPSC rig in due course, and I don't fancy spending multiple hours reloading every weekend. I certainly can't afford to shoot that much centerfire factory ammo!

For precision rounds and large caliber BP, I used a single stage press. RCBS,

for bulk loading using modern propellants I use a Dillon 650

for bulk black powder loading I use a Lee turret, 4 hole.

jrandom

1st February 2007, 11:35

for bulk loading using modern propellants I use a Dillon 650...

Question answered, ta.

I'll probably go with the same.

Swoop

2nd February 2007, 19:13

Have a look at the Hornady Progressive as well. A nice little unit but I'm not sure how it compares with the Dillon, pricewise.

Dai

3rd February 2007, 12:18

Have a look at the Hornady Progressive as well. A nice little unit but I'm not sure how it compares with the Dillon, pricewise.

Hornady make really good equipment. I havent used it myself, apart from their dies, but have nevere heard a bad word.

The Dillon is impressive. They have a lifetime gaurantee. They function very well once set up. They are consistant, if you do your part.

With the 650 you are theoretically capable of producing that many rounds an hour. Count on about 400 per hour as you will have to fill primer tubes, keep the case hopper full and the powder measure full.

A very good rule of thumb is to weight he powder charge every 20 or so rounds. I have seen measures get out of wack.

pritch

4th February 2007, 19:25

At the outset my friends advised me to buy quality so I bought RCBS...

Some years ago now I was considering loading some .32HBWC loads. The RCBS powder measure blurb claimed that it could measure the whole range of loads but really it did not do loads for the smaller cases at all well. The blurb also claimed a "lifetime" guarantee, but we all know that when you are at the other end of the world that may not mean too much.

Anyway I wrote RCBS a letter explaining that I had owned the press some 20 years but that there were serious shortcomings with the equipment at the (ultra?) light load end of the scale.

About two weeks later I was thinking as I walked to the mail box that I could almost be due for a reply. There in the box was a package bearing US$15 worth of postage which contained a new rotor specifically for light loads. The package bore the declaration, "Replacements under warranty - No charge"

I was (and still am) bloody impressed!!

Wolf

5th February 2007, 14:55

You can get a 200 round mag for the Ruger 10/22. Now why would than be any more dangerous than a 10 round mag.
Could get a serous case of OOS/RSI loading the damned thing...

Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, anyone?

Wolf

5th February 2007, 15:57

All the farms I grew up on had at least one rifle - usually .22 or a "sporterised" SMLE, taught to shoot (and strict firearms safety) by my parents since I was old enough to sit on a lap and squeeze a trigger, been licenced since I was 18.

I've owned a variety of A-cat firearms over the years including a 7.62x51R Mosin-Nagant rifle, a Russian-made 7.62x39 SKS (not the Norinco knock-off) and a .243 Miroku Lever Action (Japanese-made Browning, VERY nice!)

Back in the days before the MSSA bullshit (and may the politicians who penned it die of syph) a friend had an L1A1 which we took out for a bit of a shoot - figured that if anyone ever fired one on full auto the whole country would hear it, it was deafening enough on single shot. Beautiful rifle!

Had a beautiful Brno .22 bolt action, threaded for a sound moderator, that I'd fitted out with a 4x40 scope but some bastard burgled my house and stole it (but they never found the bolt or magazine). Great weapon - action like oiled glass, very reliable. First night I fired it, I'd bumped the sights up to 300m range by accident and fired 5 shots of "sub-sonic" hollowpoint through the moderator at a possum - missed it with every shot and the possum just sat there staring into the spotlight, oblivious to the projectiles flying over its head. I took the .22 semi-auto, loaded with normal supersonic ammo, off my hunting buddy and I was so pissed off at my own lack of accuracy (didn't realise that I'd fucked up the sights) that I snapped off a hasty shot and missed. The possum heard the crack of the unmoderated .22 and fucked off quick.

Never got into hand-loading but I've done more than a little repair/restoration - reblueing, restoring the stock to pristine condition etc. Great fun, very satisfying. Lucrative, too - sold a number of firearms for more than I what I paid for them.

Would love to get cats B and C but I just don't have the time and money to devote to it. Not just the cost of pistol safes and the firearms but club membership, hand-loading gear (cheaper in the long run than buying ammo).

I've also wanted to get into black powder in the past - seen a couple of replicas that I'd love to own and shoot - but again it's costly and other things take priority.

I missed out on a couple of off-ticket pistols (ammo no longer available so I could legally buy them) including a pin-fire French pepperbox "fist pistol" (the "velo-dog" pistol with the folding trigger for "safe" storage in your trouser pocket, close kin to the infamous "Apache" pistol that had a knuckle-duster grip and a small folding bayonet (more like a pocket knife). Seriously fucked off that I missed out on the fist pistol, that's one excellent collector's piece.

Jonny Rotten

5th February 2007, 16:12

jrandom

5th February 2007, 18:35

does anyone on here own a .17 just wanted to know the pros and cons of them compared to a .22

.17 HMR (http://www.chuckhawks.com/17HMR.htm)? I'd have one!

Certainly if you plan on shooting rabbits over 100m, you'll find your .17 much more suitable than a .22LR. Given the choice, I'd prefer a rifle in a 5mm centerfire varminting round throwing the same bullet weight as a .22LR downrange at an extra 1000fps over the .17, but if you have a chance to buy a good .17HMR rifle second-hand at a sharp price, you probably won't regret it. Cheaper to feed than a centerfire, but at about three times the price of the average .22, they're certainly not cheap to buy new.

mstriumph

5th February 2007, 18:39

wow
i've never SEEN a rabbit over 100m :shit:

SUPERbun!!!!!

woulda thought an elephant gun woulda been more appropriate .......:dodge:

Jonny Rotten

5th February 2007, 20:26

.17 HMR (http://www.chuckhawks.com/17HMR.htm)? I'd have one!

Certainly if you plan on shooting rabbits over 100m, you'll find your .17 much more suitable than a .22LR. Given the choice, I'd prefer a rifle in a 5mm centerfire varminting round throwing the same bullet weight as a .22LR downrange at an extra 1000fps over the .17, but if you have a chance to buy a good .17HMR rifle second-hand at a sharp price, you probably won't regret it. Cheaper to feed than a centerfire, but at about three times the price of the average .22, they're certainly not cheap to buy new.

this is the description of the one i was looking at:

Savage 93R17F

"Caliber .17 HMR Overall 39.5'' Barrel 20.75'' Twist 1 in 9'' Weight 5 lbs Magazine 5 rounds Stock synthetic Scope bases. Features: AccuTrigger, blued bolt-action, free-floating, button-rifled barrel, swivel studs with detachable magazine. Supplied with 3-9 x 32 Scope and Simmons Rings."

also comes with bag and some ammo.....
im looking at a target barrel model so its more acurate over long distances theese retail for $595 for one with out ammo or bag.

ive managed to get ahold of the importers factory in albany who recons he will do it for 495 with bag and ammo.... not bad aye

Smokin

5th February 2007, 20:43

Deano

5th February 2007, 20:51

I know feck all about guns...but i know what I like....and firing off 5 or 6 rounds in quick succession from a pump action shottie is the business.....

I fired a mate's large bore rifle (for deer - can't recall calibre) and it was hard to aim straight , even at 50m......

Jonny Rotten

5th February 2007, 20:55

I had a play with a remington 17hmr last year at the easter bunny shoot, Long story short, After spying a pair of furry ears at god knows how far away and then instanly seeing nothing but a pink vapour of fluff I just knew I had to have one.:yes:

yeah there spossed to be great for snipering things over long distance. ill have to try get my hands on one for a play at the range but i think i might be sold on theese so far

Smokin

5th February 2007, 21:02

yeah there spossed to be great for snipering things over long distance. ill have to try get my hands on one for a play at the range but i think i might be sold on theese so far

Honestly, After the first squeeze of the trigger it's bloody near impossible to wipe the smile off.

far queue

6th February 2007, 09:11

Had a beautiful Brno .22 bolt action, threaded for a sound moderator, that I'd fitted out with a 4x40 scope but some bastard burgled my house and stole it (but they never found the bolt or magazine). Great weapon - action like oiled glass, very reliable.Ha, I had the same thing happen 20 years ago - Brno model 2, silencer, 4x40 - I'd been out spot lighting on Saturday night and it rained, so the rifle got wet. Sunday was nice and sunny, so I left the rifle sitting in the sun on the lounge floor with the bolt and magazine out, but lying right next to it. I went out for about an hour and left it there, when I got back I'd been burgled and lost all sorts of shit including the Brno, but the dumb fuck left the bolt and magazine behind. The good news was that the burgler was well known to the plods, and they recognised him shortly later by his car and stopped him for a chat. He had all sorts of shit in the back of his car, including my stereo, TV, and Brno, all of which I had the serials for. They actually caught him before I even knew I'd been burgled. So, I got my rifle back and learnt a lesson - don't leave your guns lying around unattended. I've still got that same Brno, last used about 2 weeks ago.

Certainly if you plan on shooting rabbits over 100m, you'll find your .17 much more suitable than a .22LR. Given the choice, I'd prefer a rifle in a 5mm centerfire varminting round throwing the same bullet weight as a .22LR downrange at an extra 1000fps over the .17, but if you have a chance to buy a good .17HMR rifle second-hand at a sharp price, you probably won't regret it. Cheaper to feed than a centerfire, but at about three times the price of the average .22, they're certainly not cheap to buy new.One of the guys at Gun City was telling me he has a Brno model 2 that he's had rebarrelled to .17 calibre. He reckons it's a great weapon with superb accuracy.

far queue

6th February 2007, 09:19

I missed out on a couple of off-ticket pistols (ammo no longer available so I could legally buy them) including a pin-fire French pepperbox "fist pistol" (the "velo-dog" pistol with the folding trigger for "safe" storage in your trouser pocket...This mention of the "Velo Dog" cartridge has got me thinking. I used to collect cartridges and have quite a few, including a few oddballs like the Velo Dog. But I moved on to other things, have done nothing with them for years, and have been meaning to do something about moving them on to another collector who would appreciate them. Any cartridge collectors out there ?

Wolf

6th February 2007, 09:27

Never tried a .17, I think some time I'll have to take a wander with someone who owns one to give it a test.

I liked the flat trajectory of my old .243. Was a real wrench selling it but I needed the money and the firearm was a luxury.

pritch

6th February 2007, 09:38

I missed out on a couple of off-ticket pistols (ammo no longer available so I could legally buy them) including a pin-fire French pepperbox "fist pistol" (the "velo-dog" pistol with the folding trigger for "safe" storage in your trouser pocket, close kin to the infamous "Apache" pistol that had a knuckle-duster grip and a small folding bayonet (more like a pocket knife). Seriously fucked off that I missed out on the fist pistol, that's one excellent collector's piece.

Ummm getting tricky there. The "ammo no longer available" used to apply but hasn't since the MSSA changes. Pinfire and earlier is OK, but anything centre or rim fire must be licenced.

There used to be some (ever so slight) anomalies such as .455 Webleys being off-ticket as "ammunition was no longer available" and at the same time the Webley MkV1 in .455 was an approved pistol for competition in this country.

I guess if you have the equipment, the skills, the patience, and are enough of a masochist, there is no such thing as "ammunition no longer available".

Dai

6th February 2007, 10:32

[QUOTE=pritch008;924831.....
I guess if you have the equipment, the skills, the patience, and are enough of a masochist, there is no such thing as "ammunition no longer available".[/QUOTE]

I am a prime example of this. I bought an 1861 Ballard carbine chambered for
.56 rimfire. This hasnt been made for about 90 years. I have just done a chamber cast and slugged the barrel. Got all the critical dimensions I need.

I am going to buy a length of brass rod and turn out 20-30 cases for this caliber.
As it is a rimfire and a single shot rifle I am going to machine the head of the case to take a .22 blank and drill s flash hole though to the powder.

Using Black Powder and a 350 gn head I should have this old beauty working again.

All it has taken is a bit of thinking and a lathe to remake this ammo.

Wolf

6th February 2007, 11:22

Ummm getting tricky there. The "ammo no longer available" used to apply but hasn't since the MSSA changes. Pinfire and earlier is OK, but anything centre or rim fire must be licenced.

...

I guess if you have the equipment, the skills, the patience, and are enough of a masochist, there is no such thing as "ammunition no longer available".
This was back in pre-MSSA days. The pistols concerned were both pinfire - one being the "velo-dog", can't recall what the other was.

Both were deemed off-ticket but I did encounter one bloke who reckonned it wouldn't be impossible for a competent hand-loader to manufacture a pinfire cartridge using centrefire cartridges.

If you're capable of manufacturing/machining your own tools, anything's possible.

The number of "wildcat" pistol rounds out there (mostly in the US) made from cut-down or renecked rifle cartridges attests to the inventiveness of people when it comes to ammunition (and presumably in making the firearms to take said wildcat rounds.)

Dai

6th February 2007, 11:27

Its not just ammo that one can make.

In this country it is perfectly legal for an individual to make their own firearm as long as they have the relevant licence for that style. ie A "B" cat for a pistol.

Once made they need to be stamped with a serial number and registered.

One of the people I shoot with made a .45 long barreled colt with a rifle stock. Just because he could.

All it takes is skill, equipment and materials.

jrandom

6th February 2007, 16:11

ive managed to get ahold of the importers factory in albany who recons he will do it for 495 with bag and ammo.... not bad aye

That's an awesome price.

Savage really do make the best bang-for-buck rifles out there. Quality-wise, I don't think there's much between them and Sako. I didn't realise they did a budget .17 as well.

Much cooler than a .22.

Hurry up and buy it so that I can cadge a play with it sometime ;)

Wolf

7th February 2007, 00:37

In this country it is perfectly legal for an individual to make their own firearm as long as they have the relevant licence for that style. ie A "B" cat for a pistol.
I didn't know that.

But I think I'll pass - my gunsmithing has been limited to replacing a broken receiver, cutting the bayonet lugs off a couple of ex-military rifles, some reblueing and steaming the dents out of wooden stocks.

All it takes is skill, equipment and materials.
Ya see, fucked on all three counts. :D

0arbreaka

7th February 2007, 01:57

does anyone on here own a .17 just wanted to know the pros and cons of them compared to a .22

I was looking at getting one a while back and did quite a bit of research on it and I came over just a couple of cons.

The cons with the .17hmr cartridge are;
-The projectile is very succeptable to wind when shooting in winds about and over 5kts as it is a very lightweigth projectile.
-The .17hmr is not suitable for anything larger than a possum/hare, Ive heard stories of people trying to shoot a goat with it and having to spend the rest of their day searching for the wounded goat in which they failed to kill.

But other than it is very good, the .17hmr has had vast amounts of positive reviews as well.
Just make sure that you get yourself a decent scope for it, so you can use it to its full potential, a bipod also helps with those longer distance shots(but thats up to you)

Dai

7th February 2007, 08:43

I didn't know that.

But I think I'll pass - my gunsmithing has been limited to replacing a broken receiver, cutting the bayonet lugs off a couple of ex-military rifles, some reblueing and steaming the dents out of wooden stocks.

Ya see, fucked on all three counts. :D

A mate of mine brought in an experimental rifle in .505 Gibbs. Customs officer wanted to see the serial number. It didntr have one as my mate had made the rifle himself.

He took out a magic marker and wrote the numeral 1 on the breech.

Customs officer happy.

Rifle now in NZ and last I heard getting stocked.
.505Gibbs,
8000 ft/lbs of energy,
5 shot magazine.
bolt action that can be canged left to right at a whim.

Looking forward to the day I can have a go at firing this monster

doc

7th February 2007, 18:50

hey guys

i was looking today at buying a savage .17 riffle with a target barrell for shooting hares and rabbits at distances like 100-200 meteres.....

does anyone on here own a .17 just wanted to know the pros and cons of them compared to a .22.... so far all i know is there a higher volicity round shoot flatter and more acurate over long distance's but can be quite affected by wind...

any other info that anyone has with there experence with these rifiles would be great to hear about....

cheers
I'm interested in the same. I have a fetish for getting magpies at daybreak nothing better that starting the day with a magpie. My problem is they are getting more cunning, well more difficult with the .22 anyway , is the .17 a better choice over 100m up the top of trees with the wind higher and I don't need more noise so are they much quieter with a suppressor ? ( like I mean no more noisy than Hi vel .22) rural areas are being more populated by people who don't like the noise or smell of .45 hawken trying to hit a magpie at 60 m it's a lot more fun when you do hit one tho. Please only gun freaks reply I couldn't handle anymore red reps from the Green people. Ahh Nothin betta that the smell of blackpowder in the morning.

Smokin

7th February 2007, 19:14

They make quite a "crack" compared to a .22LR, I have no experiance with the suppressor but by all accounts they are quiet effective at removing a fair chunk of the initial "crack".

Sure as hell wouldn't want to be a magpie around one of these puppies.

0arbreaka

7th February 2007, 19:17

Like I said before, the projectile is very light and is very succeptable to winds, at a cross wind of about 5kts the projectile would be blown about 8 inches laterally. The .17hmr's average muzzle velocity is about 2550fps which as you can imagine is a large margine above the .22 muzzle velocity, this higher muzzle velocity would make it substantially harder to silence/supress, although i have seen one or two .17hmr's with silencers on them i dont know how effective they were.

EDIT: the sound barrier is at about 1100fps, so that puts it in perspective.

Dai

7th February 2007, 19:20

I'm interested in the same. I have a fetish for getting magpies at daybreak nothing better that starting the day with a magpie. My problem is they are getting more cunning, well more difficult with the .22 anyway , is the .17 a better choice over 100m up the top of trees with the wind higher and I don't need more noise so are they much quieter with a suppressor ? ( like I mean no more noisy than Hi vel .22) rural areas are being more populated by people who don't like the noise or smell of .45 hawken trying to hit a magpie at 60 m it's a lot more fun when you do hit one tho. Please only gun freaks reply I couldn't handle anymore red reps from the Green people. Ahh Nothin betta that the smell of blackpowder in the morning.

Oh yes I thoroughly ephasis with you.

Rather than the Hawken try a 12 guage solid slug. Accurate to 100 yards and boy does it f#@k possums so I hate to think what would be left after hitting a magpie.

The smeel of blackpowder anytime of the day. The roar the flame and the thunder. Welcome to the "Darkside". Soot Lords rule.

As has been said so often, "modern propellant is just a passing fad"

doc

7th February 2007, 19:24

Oh yes I thoroughly ephasis with you.

Rather than the Hawken try a 12 guage solid slug. Accurate to 100 yards and boy does it f#@k possums so I hate to think what would be left after hitting a magpie.

Do you tie a lot of trout flies do you ?

scumdog

7th February 2007, 19:30

Dai

7th February 2007, 19:30

Do you tie a lot of trout flies do you ?

This is lost on me. If it is a reference to fishing then I have to admit that I dont. The only fishing I have ever done is with 1/2 a stick of gelignite and a net downstream.

scumdog

7th February 2007, 19:33

This is lost on me. If it is a reference to fishing then I have to admit that I dont. The only fishing I have ever done is with 1/2 a stick of gelignite and a net downstream.

Hmmm, my guess it's in reference to the mass of feathers left behind..... that could be used for flies...

doc

7th February 2007, 19:39

This is lost on me. If it is a reference to fishing then I have to admit that I dont. The only fishing I have ever done is with 1/2 a stick of gelignite and a net downstream.

As an honourable sportsman When I think someone is watching I find that statement abhorent and am presently *555 you as we speak.

Dai

7th February 2007, 19:39

Hmmm, my guess it's in reference to the mass of feathers left behind..... that could be used for flies...

Cheers for that. I'm getting older and thicker as time goes on.

BTW I picked up that little .22 semi hangun on Sunday. Full suppressor and 3 spare mags. As quiet as using a soft air pistol.

Very nice.

scumdog

7th February 2007, 19:42

Cheers for that. I'm getting older and thicker as time goes on.

BTW I picked up that little .22 semi hangun on Sunday. Full suppressor and 3 spare mags. As quiet as using a soft air pistol.

Very nice.

Ya jammy bugger, would love sommat like that, love using silenced weapons, so discrete!

doc

7th February 2007, 19:44

Ferkin near does your shoulder in as well if you're lying down when you fire:yes:
Yep thats why blackpowder is only used in the "other" positions than prone

Dai

7th February 2007, 20:38

Yep thats why blackpowder is only used in the "other" positions than prone

I use BP in the prone position when firing my long range Remington Rolling Block 45-70.

520 gn projectile over 65 gns of BP. Accurate to 1000 yards. Wish I was.

My CAS shotgun loads lately have been 70 gns of BP with 1oz #7 shot.

Like all firearms, it only kicks if you handle it wrong.

Wolf

7th February 2007, 21:36

They make quite a "crack" compared to a .22LR, I have no experiance with the suppressor but by all accounts they are quiet effective at removing a fair chunk of the initial "crack".
But would do fuck all in getting rid of the travel noise of a Mach-2 projectile. I used to fire sub-sonic rounds in the suppressed Brno but a sub-sonic round would defeat the purpose if you're using a .17 for it's accuracy over long distances.

I found on the .22 the suppressor certainly took the edge off the initial crack of even the standard ammo and it turned the softer report of the sub-sonic rounds into an almost apologetic "cough" - about the noise level of a CO2 air pistol.

A mate of mine reckonned that with a suppressed .22 and sub-sonic ammo he could snipe at rabbits coming down to drink and quite a few would fall before the others twigged that something was up - and then he could usually get a couple more before they fled. By comparison: one shot of a standard .22 bullet from an unsuppressed firearm and all he'd see was one dead rabbit.

pritch

7th February 2007, 22:09

Yep thats why blackpowder is only used in the "other" positions than prone

The big bores (8 and 4 bore I mean) were fired standing or kneeling. Most others were fired prone but lying somewhat sideways to the point of aim. That way the recoil tended to push your shoulder back rather than just punch through your collar bone. That position lasted through until the demise of the .303.

It was the advent of the .223/5.56 that permitted a prone position in line with the barrel. At that relatively "recoiless" point some bright spark finally fitted rubber pads to military rifles...

Ah well!

scumdog

7th February 2007, 22:25

It was the advent of the .223/5.56 that permitted a prone position in line with the barrel. At that relatively "recoiless" point some bright spark finally fitted rubber pads to military rifles...

Ah well!

You ever seen the recoil 'pad' on a No.5? (Jungle Carbine)

Worse than the standard brass 'plate imho, too narrow and not that soft.

jrandom

8th February 2007, 09:55

You ever seen the recoil 'pad' on a No.5? (Jungle Carbine)

Military rifles stopped being cool when you could no longer splinter bones with the butt if you ran out of ammo.

0arbreaka

8th February 2007, 15:22

Military rifles stopped being cool when you could no longer splinter bones with the butt if you ran out of ammo.

Military rifles still have bayonet lugs and todays military personel are still equipped with bayonets, in which can be used in this given situation.

jrandom

8th February 2007, 16:39

Military rifles still have bayonet lugs...

Well, um... what if the bayonet breaks? Eh? Eh?

Then I've got you and your plastic poodle-shooter right where I want 'em.

Anyway, you can't hammer in tent pegs with a bayonet. My Nagant served that purpose well the last time we went camping.

0arbreaka

8th February 2007, 17:07

you'll find your entrenching tool/spade works pretty well hammering in tent pegs

btw, by plastic poodle shooter do you mean steyr?

jrandom

8th February 2007, 17:30

btw, by plastic poodle shooter do you mean steyr?

Yes.

I hope I never get shot by a 5.56.

Such an undignified way to die.

It'd almost be as though I wasn't worth the extra bullet weight.

Wolf

8th February 2007, 17:48

I hope I never get shot by a 5.56.

Such an undignified way to die.
If you do die, that is. The round was apparently chosen because it was more likely to maim than kill, thus taking more of the enemy out of the combat (removing the injured soldier from the battleground) than killing one of them would.
The M-16's a toy as well - I was stunned that I could hold one one-handed and aim it like a pistol. You'd probably have more effect clubbing your opponent with a feather duster than with the snap-happy Lincoln Toy.

jrandom

8th February 2007, 18:03

The round was apparently chosen because it was more likely to maim than kill...

Oh, pig's arse. It was chosen because it could deliver more kinetic energy on a greater number of targets within typical engagement range for a given weight of ammunition.

If we're going to beat dead horses, can we do .45 vs 9mm instead?

doc

8th February 2007, 18:03

If you do die, that is. The round was apparently chosen because it was more likely to maim than kill, thus taking more of the enemy out of the combat (removing the injured soldier from the battleground) than killing one of them would.
The M-16's a toy as well - I was stunned that I could hold one one-handed and aim it like a pistol. You'd probably have more effect clubbing your opponent with a feather duster than with the snap-happy Lincoln Toy.much better lugging one of them around all day than an SLR. All depends on what the task is aye.

"The round was apparently chosen because it was more likely to maim than kill, thus taking more of the enemy out of the combat (removing the injured soldier from the battleground) than killing one of them would."

Don't know where this came from the other one was that it was primarily designed for Artic conditions, you would die from hypothermia because of blood loss. I think young soldiers like to believe in things like this. Ask the current soldiers what they prefer and you might be surprised how simple their requirements are and it aint science. Or playstation

Wolf

8th February 2007, 18:29

Anyway, you can't hammer in tent pegs with a bayonet. My Nagant served that purpose well the last time we went camping.
Hmmm, must be a common thing - the stock on the one I bought looked like it had been used for hammering something...

Wolf

8th February 2007, 18:37

Oh, pig's arse. It was chosen because it could deliver more kinetic energy on a greater number of targets within typical engagement range for a given weight of ammunition.
OK. I was just going by what I was told. I wasn't sure of the accuracy, hence "apparently" - perhaps I should have said "allegedly".

If we're going to beat dead horses, can we do .45 vs 9mm instead?
Yeah, that could be good for a laugh - and we could have a pool on how long before the thread gets consigned to PD :D

doc

8th February 2007, 18:46

Oh, pig's arse. It was chosen because it could deliver more kinetic energy on a greater number of targets within typical engagement range for a given weight of ammunition.

Yep I think that when the bean counters took over tactics, been like that ever since Vietnam era where the military couldn't use ultimate force to achieve its objective instead it was a show and tell. Meaning winning wasn't important anymore . Bravo 20 was the final wake up. Before that incident the premise was we will alway get you back. That incident bought to the world spotlight that it was now not cost effective. And highlighted in the Book Soldier 5. Recently in Afganistan 4 guys from 40 commando were world headline news in a dramatic attempt to do a Hot Casevac. Betcha the management are still trying to explain that one.

Smokin

8th February 2007, 18:46

ive managed to get ahold of the importers factory in albany who recons he will do it for 495 with bag and ammo.... not bad aye

Was that a price for Joe Bloggs or a one off special for you?

scumdog

8th February 2007, 20:13

Oh, pig's arse. It was chosen because it could deliver more kinetic energy on a greater number of targets within typical engagement range for a given weight of ammunition.

If we're going to beat dead horses, can we do .45 vs 9mm instead?

Hmmm, I remember in the early 60's in The Amercan Rifleman and Guns & Ammo that the 223 was 'aimed' at the arctic circle scenario where even a slight wound was going to tie up people fixing you as stripping off without shelter in those conditions was ill advised, ergo it meant your buddies had to get you to shelter before they could start treating you.

Just my old memory, not always 100%.

Dai

8th February 2007, 21:06

It has been common knowledge in military circles that if a man is killed it take just him/her out of the picture but if a person is wounded that up to 5 or more individuals could be tied up caring for him.

5.56 is a light round to carry. If it doesnt kill it wounds. 2 objectives covered, less weight for the soldier on the ground to carry and he doesnt have to be a crack marksman just an adequate shot.

In the American Civil war, where the standard bullet size was a .58 caliber, the most feared wound was from the lowly .22.

Why?

Because the .58 left a very large hole and the bullet was easily found and extracted. It was a fearsome wound but could be repaired.

The .22 was easily deflected and could take a zig zag path in the body of the wounded soldier. If it did so it would lead to blood poisoning and infection if not found in a few days. In those days there was no x-ray so they had to probe for the bullet. There was no antibiotics so infection was lethal.

There were a lot of Smith and Wesson #1 and #1 1/2 pistols bought by the soldieirs as personal weapons. These were chambered for the lowly .22.

The .22, the longest produced cartridge round ever. Originally produced in 1852 and still going strong pretty much unchanged.

DUCATI*HARD

8th February 2007, 21:08

i got a slug gun 1000feet per sec,does that count.

Dai

8th February 2007, 21:13

i got a slug gun 1000feet per sec,does that count.

Pnuematic weapons have been around for a long time so of course your slug gun counts.

In the Napoleonic Wars, Napoleon himself drafted an order that any enemy soldier caught with an "air" gun was to be executed imediately without trial.

The air rifles of the day were more accurat than the standard firearms, shot further and one couldnt identify where it was fired from as there was no puff of smoke from the powder. Hence they were an unfair weapon.

Dai

8th February 2007, 21:14

I am a mine of useless information

Jonny Rotten

8th February 2007, 21:24

Was that a price for Joe Bloggs or a one off special for you?

seemed to be an on going price.....it was at the sportsway gun shed factory shop in albany.

no 38 peirmark drive.....just off bush road...there is a sign out front that says guns and ammo... the guy is there wednesday thursday friday who i talked to....

Wolf

8th February 2007, 21:52

Pnuematic weapons have been around for a long time so of course your slug gun counts.

In the Napoleonic Wars, Napoleon himself drafted an order that any enemy soldier caught with an "air" gun was to be executed imediately without trial.

The air rifles of the day were more accurat than the standard firearms, shot further and one couldnt identify where it was fired from as there was no puff of smoke from the powder. Hence they were an unfair weapon.
And they were a damn sight quieter than a regular firearm.

They were looked upon as "assassin's weapons", hence the immediate execution - the bloke with the air rifle was not deemed to be a "soldier" and so was accorded no rights.

I've seen some pictures of antique air rifles - would utterly love one (now that Napoleon's troops are nowhere near...) It would probably take ages to build up the pressure in the reservoir with the squeeze bulb - another argument for the "assassin" theory, considering a soldier could probably load and fire several times to one sneaky shot from the air rifle.

A good pneumatic can be quite an imposing weapon - 10 pumps of a fairly modern pneumatic was enough to drive a .22 waisted slug an inch and a half into a seasoned round post so I sure as hell wouldn't want to get shot by it.

Regrettably we didn't have a .22lr on hand for a comparison shot into the same post.

scumdog

8th February 2007, 22:02

And they were a damn sight quieter than a regular firearm.

They were looked upon as "assassin's weapons", hence the immediate execution - the bloke with the air rifle was not deemed to be a "soldier" and so was accorded no rights.

I've seen some pictures of antique air rifles - would utterly love one (now that Napoleon's troops are nowhere near...) It would probably take ages to build up the pressure in the reservoir with the squeeze bulb - another argument for the "assassin" theory, considering a soldier could probably load and fire several times to one sneaky shot from the air rifle.

A good pneumatic can be quite an imposing weapon - 10 pumps of a fairly modern pneumatic was enough to drive a .22 waisted slug an inch and a half into a seasoned round post so I sure as hell wouldn't want to get shot by it.

Regrettably we didn't have a .22lr on hand for a comparison shot into the same post.

Love using air-weapons, the pump-up models especially so as there's no jarring or 'twang' from the piston/spring, just an uncanny lack of movement of te rifle.

pritch

8th February 2007, 22:22

Oh, pig's arse. It was chosen because it could deliver more kinetic energy on a greater number of targets within typical engagement range for a given weight of ammunition.

Sorry, he was right.

It's true the greater number of rounds for the weight was a consideration but I seem to recall the equation says that it takes seven people to look after a wounded enemy so the generals prefer wounding him to killing him. (Or her?)

The soldiers at the sharp end don't give a shit about that though, they just want to put him on his arse and a 7.62 does that a lot faster than a 5.56.

Wolf

8th February 2007, 22:22

Love using air-weapons, the pump-up models especially so as there's no jarring or 'twang' from the piston/spring, just an uncanny lack of movement of te rifle.
Yeah, my piston model jars the rifle forward in a kind of "anti-recoil" that shakes the barrel.
Always wanted a Walther LG-3 pneumatic air pistol (competition target pistol) and one of their competition pneumatic air rifles.

I have a .177 Walther CP-99 CO2-powered pistol (made by Umarex, these days). Would dearly love a P-99 chambered for 9mm.

Wolf

8th February 2007, 23:15

The soldiers at the sharp end don't give a shit about that though, they just want to put him on his arse and a 7.62 does that a lot faster than a 5.56.
I read a good essay by American motorcycle and firearm enthusiast Chuck Hawk suggesting that the military should switch to .243 Winchester rounds - being more lethal than the .223 but not as heavy as the .308/7.62x51. He had some good points - the flat trajectory, ability to penetrate scrub better than a .223, doesn't kick as hard as a 7.62 (great for trainees or conscripts) and so forth.

I certainly agree the .243 is a great calibre, my Miroku was a beauty to shoot and sodding accurate. Would like a Mauser actioned rifle in .243 - there are a few around.

jrandom

9th February 2007, 06:06

Sorry, he was right.

With all due respect, no, he wasn't.

I seem to recall the equation says that it takes seven people to look after a wounded enemy so the generals prefer wounding him to killing him. (Or her?)

We've covered this before in other threads. Ad fucking nauseam.

What do you think soldiers do with a dead guy? Leave him there?

they just want to put him on his arse and a 7.62 does that a lot faster than a 5.56.

No it doesn't.

I've never shot a man, but I've shot plenty of things on four legs with a variety of rifles, and I've observed that a 30-caliber FMJ can punch a neat little hole through a non-vital part of something without killing it, or even stopping it, just as easily as a 22-caliber can. Bullet construction is much more important than weight or caliber when it comes to the severity of the wounding effect in medium-sized game (like humans).

Range and penetration are the only advantages of 30-caliber bullets in a military context. Terminal ballistics don't enter into it.

Dai

9th February 2007, 09:49

....What do you think soldiers do with a dead guy? Leave him there?

......

Too fucking right they do.

Its after a battle that the pioneers, grave registration etc become involved.

I've been on active service and if my buddy goes down we were taught to make him comfortable, if time and circumstances permit, and leave him. If it is fatal the worst thing one can do is to hang around. It means that the person or persons who shot him are probably still around and you could be next.

A soldiers major responsibility is to stay alive.

0arbreaka

9th February 2007, 12:11

I am a mine of useless information

yes your are

Dai

9th February 2007, 12:46

yes your are

Glad you agree.

jrandom

9th February 2007, 12:59

I've been on active service and if my buddy goes down we were taught to make him comfortable, if time and circumstances permit, and leave him...

I was kind of trying to make the point that in terms of a unit's effectiveness in battle, speaking from a purely uneducated standpoint, I don't really see how wounding a soldier would be any better than killing him.

Heck, unless the wound is particularly disabling, that guy can still present a threat. Better if he's dead. As you point out, his buddies are going to keep shooting back - they're not going to suddenly down guns and carry him away on a stretcher.

The original question was whether the 5.56 NATO cartridge was selected for terminal ballistics advantages. I call bullshit to that idea. If it's more likely to wound than kill, that's a disadvantage due to reduced effectiveness.

Some quotes from the relevant Wikipedia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.56_x_45_mm_NATO):

... there had been criticism that the 7.62 mm round was too powerful for modern assault rifles, causing excessive recoil, and that the weight of the ammunition did not allow for enough "firepower" in modern combat.

Controllability of recoil and total round count for a given weight. Nothing to do with needing a smaller round to wound instead of kill.

There has been much criticism of the poor performance of the round, especially the first-round kill rate when using firearms that don't achieve the velocity to cause fragmentation. Typically, this only becomes an issue at longer ranges (over 100 meters) but this problem is compounded in shorter-barreled weapons. The 14.5-inch barrel of the U.S. military's M4 Carbine can be particularly prone to this problem. At short ranges, the round is extremely effective, and its tendency to fragment reduces the risk to bystanders when used at close range. However, if the round is moving too slowly to reliably fragment on impact, the wound size and potential to incapacitate a target is greatly reduced...

It's all about incapacitation of the target. Whether or not the bad guy dies is entirely beside the point. More damage when the bullet hits is always a good thing. If you could parcel the ballistics of a .50BMG into a .223-sized package, I suspect the US military would love to hear from you.

The whole 'wounded soldiers take up more resources' argument was simply never a factor in the establishment of the 5.56x45 cartridge standard. It might make some sort of intuitive sense during armchair analysis, but it didn't have any influence on actual military planning.

Dai

9th February 2007, 13:15

A very much improved arguement.

I agree that the difference between incapacitating or killing a soldier would never have been a deciding factor in the development of a round.

The "bean counters" would have more say as the cost resources for the 5.65mm would be considerably less than the 7.62mm. Just in propellant alone the difference between a 5.56 at about 17gns of powder and a 7.62 with 30 gns (a guess here) would be a major cost saving.

How many live rounds are the NZ Army allowing their soldiers to fire per year?

When I first joined in the 1970's I was in the Artillery. 105mm Howitzer. Each round then was over $100 and some days we could go through 50 rounds.

I digress again.

Later

mikey

9th February 2007, 13:42

Learnt how to convert an SLR to full auto with a matchstick when I was in the army. Haven't tried it myself thou.

Was given a full auto conversion piece of metal for my Ruger 10/22 by a friend. Turned out to be pretty useless.

what good is a auto 22? worried the french are going to invade? just buy a 50 round banana mag. i dont run out. or reload fuk all.

Dai

9th February 2007, 13:51

what good is a auto 22? worried the french are going to invade? just buy a 50 round banana mag. i dont run out. or reload fuk all.

The American rifle AR180 was chambered for .22. It was capable of punching a hole through reinforced concrete. Why? Because it was so accurate the rounds all hit the same place.

Also full auto .22 guns are real FUN.

Almost as much fun as FULLY SUPPRESSED FULL AUTO .22 firearms.

Not to say I would ever use a fully auto firearm in this country.

To own a 50 round banana mag you need to have an E cat licence.

Wolf

9th February 2007, 15:08

Also full auto .22 guns are real FUN.
A friend of mine had a Stirling .22 semiauto, poked a matchstick into a hole in the side, squeezed the trigger, there was a loud but brief fart sound and the 16-shot mag was empty. The hole in the clay bank he was shooting (at around 25-30m range) was the size of an old ten-cent piece.

Didn't have time to have a lot of fun...

jrandom

9th February 2007, 15:54

To own a 50 round banana mag you need to have an E cat licence.

Indeed.

There is, however, a funny little legal loophole that means that magazines, on their own, do not require a firearms licence to purchase.

One can, for instance, buy an A-cat L1A1 and then go straight out and anonymously purchase a standard 20-round magazine for it, thereby becoming instantly naughty in the sight of the law with very little effort.

I'm sure nobody would ever commit such a heinous crime, naturally.

doc

9th February 2007, 16:49

The whole 'wounded soldiers take up more resources' argument was simply never a factor in the establishment of the 5.56x45 cartridge standard. It might make some sort of intuitive sense during armchair analysis, but it didn't have any influence on actual military planning.

Exactly there seems to be a lot of armchair experts. How many military types know much about ballistics, civilian shooters do and are generally better shots but their shooting doesn't involve being all dressed up with all the crap you carry wearing SOP equipment, and they're are sometimes heaving their lungs out returning fire with targets that are shooting back. Not taking the piss out of anyone just stating facts. Military usually develop something with extensive funds and civilians sometimes take it to the next level being shooting, fitness, skydiving, cooking, etc etc. Superman is fiction if you believe all the stuff in books about Special Forces your are a being a bit naive. There are the odd exceptions but we are all mortal. Nice to believe in McGivyer tho. Next some one will believe that the CSI stuff is real and happens everday.

Dai

9th February 2007, 20:08

Indeed.

There is, however, a funny little legal loophole that means that magazines, on their own, do not require a firearms licence to purchase.

One can, for instance, buy an A-cat L1A1 and then go straight out and anonymously purchase a standard 20-round magazine for it, thereby becoming instantly naughty in the sight of the law with very little effort.

I'm sure nobody would ever commit such a heinous crime, naturally.

I have been wondering about that anomoly myself.

For example;

If I owned a Ruger 10/22 semi auto for which I can only purchase magazines up to 15 rounds on an A cat license.

I also own a Ruger 77/22 bolt action rifle that takes the same magazine but there is no restriction on size as it is bolt.

I go out and buy a couple of 25 round and a couple of 50 round magazines for the 77/22.

Am I now breaking the law because they will fit the 10/22 and I do not have an E cat licence?

Wolf

9th February 2007, 20:21

I have been wondering about that anomoly myself.

For example;

If I owned a Ruger 10/22 semi auto for which I can only purchase magazines up to 15 rounds on an A cat license.

I also own a Ruger 77/22 bolt action rifle that takes the same magazine but there is no restriction on size as it is bolt.

I go out and buy a couple of 25 round and a couple of 50 round magazines for the 77/22.

Am I now breaking the law because they will fit the 10/22 and I do not have an E cat licence?
Wicked-arsed question, Dai.

Obviously, the minute you bung a 25- or 50-rnd mag in the semi it becomes an MSSA, but what about when the rifles and mags are locked seperately away at home (as per the law)?

Is the onus then upon the constabulary to prove your intent to use the 50 rnd mag in the semiauto? Do they have to catch you in the act of having the 50-rnd in the semi (instant breech of licence) or is the mere possession of a >15 rnd mag (that is capable of fitting) enough?

scumdog

9th February 2007, 20:25

I have been wondering about that anomoly myself.

For example;

If I owned a Ruger 10/22 semi auto for which I can only purchase magazines up to 15 rounds on an A cat license.

I also own a Ruger 77/22 bolt action rifle that takes the same magazine but there is no restriction on size as it is bolt.

I go out and buy a couple of 25 round and a couple of 50 round magazines for the 77/22.

Am I now breaking the law because they will fit the 10/22 and I do not have an E cat licence?
Only if you get caught with one of the big mags in your 10/22.

Can't understand the logic of law makers.
A 10/22 with a 15 shot mag is o.k.
One with a 10 shot mag and free-sranding pistol grip is not. WTF??

(Remember the Mossberg (I think) that and a free-standing fold down fore-end and a ten shot mag,? I guess they count as a MSSA.:scratch:)

Wolf

9th February 2007, 21:00

A 10/22 with a 15 shot mag is o.k.
One with a 10 shot mag and free-sranding pistol grip is not. WTF??
That's coz people can be scared to death and a free-standing pistol grip is fukn scary! :yes:

:apint: WTF am I doing? I don't even like Tui.

A mate had a Sterling M-16 lookalike in .22lr - 15 shot mag (16 if you chambered a round and then reloaded the mag) hidden up inside a fake non-detachable .223-style mag.

When the MSSA law came in he had a rifle with a free-standing pistol grip and what appeared to be a whacking-great 10-shot .223 mag ("holds, or appears to hold, more than 7 rounds of centrefire ammunition") and a flash suppressor.

As he had no desire to get an MSSA endorsement just to own a rifle that bore a resemblance to a real MSSA, he butchered the fake mag - cut it away leaving only the strap at the back that held the magazine clip and release button - so that the 15-shot .22lr mag was now visible. He cut off the flash suppressor and then grabbed wire, chicken wire and automotive bog from which he fashioned a non-removeable (unless you want to utterly fuck the stock) bridge between the bottom of the hand grip to the underside of the shoulder stock, thus turning the shoulder-stock-and-pistol-grip into a "hole-through" stock (sometimes called a "target stock").

The rifle now looks like an utter abortion - but at least it is no longer an "MSSA" with a terrifying and deadly pistol grip and fake 10-round centrefire mag...

My 10-shot 7.62x39 SKS mag was cut down by the local gunsmith - to 5 shots. When I asked why, he replied "so it's visibly obvious that it does not exceed 7 rounds."

At least his job of cutting the mag down looks good.

Brett

9th February 2007, 21:19

Wolf

9th February 2007, 21:22

I have family i South Africa that need to get rid of a few weapons, mostly hunting rifles (.308 WInchester, .303 British, 30-06 Rifle and a .22 Long Rifle with Ivory Handle that is nearly a hundred years old), but also a custom made .357 magnum revolver that used to be my dads. How hard is it to get them into NZ? i figure the rifles will be easy, but is there any way to get teh revolver is without a small arms licence(I plan to get one, but it takes time!)

Feedback??

Cheers

Brett
My understanding is that a C endorsement is designed to cover non A-cat weapons that have sentimental value - such as heirlooms.

I'm not sure on all the criteria to get a C-cat for a single pistol but I'd bet that a proper pistol safe bolted to the floor and approved by the arms officer would be a part of it.

Dai

9th February 2007, 21:24

I am a strange person and have actually read the Police officers guide to the Firearms code. All 180 odd pages of it and to answer my own question.

Yes I am a devious bastard I'd already looked it up.

If Own both rifles and am in POSSESION of a high capacity magazine capable of fitting the 10/22 and I do not have an E cat, then I am guilty of an offense.

Its not the use of such a magazine but the possesion of it and the possible use.

How about getting a speeding ticket and banned fron riding because you bought a bike capable of exceeding the speed limit.

Not the actuallity of doing it but because you have the capability to do so.

Now for another question. I'm full of them.

Suppose I have an accident on my bike and damage my shoulder so much that it is impossible for me to raise a hunting rifle properly or manipulate a bolt action.

I do have limited movement and wish to carry on my sport of target shooting.

Can I use a 7 shot semi auto rifle with a pistol grip?

I do not have an E cat and have no need for one as I only need a 7 shot fullbore.

Surely if I am denied the use of this style rifle then the authorities have denied me my basic human right to the pursuit of enjoyment and happiness.

What happens in a case like this? As the law stands now I would be denied my sport because of my disability. Totally against the Human Rights Commission of which NZ is a signatory. Also under ACC i could be supplied by a pistol grip stock by this dept of the government to assist me in my chosen sport.

The firearms authorities would be in contravention of loads of laws both domestic and international.

Cat amongst the pigeons

Come back to me with your thoughts.

Dai

9th February 2007, 21:29

I have family i South Africa that need to get rid of a few weapons, mostly hunting rifles (.308 WInchester, .303 British, 30-06 Rifle and a .22 Long Rifle with Ivory Handle that is nearly a hundred years old), but also a custom made .357 magnum revolver that used to be my dads. How hard is it to get them into NZ? i figure the rifles will be easy, but is there any way to get teh revolver is without a small arms licence(I plan to get one, but it takes time!)

Feedback??

Cheers

Brett

Not too hard Brett.

All you would need is alicenced B Cat holder to apply for the import of the revolver. As long as it is on the allowed list of firearms and has a barrel no less than 4" then there should be no real dificulty.

That person would have to hold it on their licence and in their possesion until you obtain a B cat, then it could be transfered over to you. Same could be done with the armourer of a pistol club. They can hold a pistol for you. You can use it under club supervision until you get your licence.

Wolf

9th February 2007, 21:36

How about getting a speeding ticket and banned fron riding because you bought a bike capable of exceeding the speed limit.

Not the actuallity of doing it but because you have the capability to do so.
OI! STFU, will ya! Never NEVER make comments like this, especially not just after indicating there is already a precedent in another part of NZ law.

The gummint is quite capable of fucking us over without you putting ideas in their pointed little heads...

Dai

9th February 2007, 21:38

OI! STFU, will ya! Never NEVER make comments like this, especially not just after indicating there is already a precedent in another part of NZ law.

The gummint is quite capable of fucking us over without you putting ideas in thir pointed little heads...

Potent little idea isnt it !!!

I will STFU as you so elequently put it as I do afree they have enough ideas to stuuf us with already.

SSSHHHHH This thread is just for us.

Wolf

9th February 2007, 21:42

SSSHHHHH This thread is just for us.
Government spies are everywhere....

Want some tin foil?

Dai

9th February 2007, 21:45

Government spies are everywhere....

Want some tin foil?

Yes but first can I turn the music up and the taps (fawcets for you septics) on full.

scumdog

9th February 2007, 21:50

Dai

9th February 2007, 21:55

I've got a pump-action with a 18 shot mag, pistol-grip and laser sight BUT FOR SOME REASON IS NOT RESTRICTED.
Yet my 5-SHOT semi-auto with flash supressor needs an E-cat licence?????

Good old NZ Govt, run by idiots that we pay!!!!

Coz your semi has a flash suppresor it means it is a nasty military weapon fit only for you to go postal with.

Now if that semi auto had a muzzle brake instead, designed to limit recoil, then as long as it didnt have more than a 7 round mag, a pistol grip and a bayonet lug
then you wouldnt need the E cat.

scumdog

9th February 2007, 21:57

Coz your semi has a flash suppresor it means it is a nasty military weapon fit only for you to go postal with.

Now if that semi auto had a muzzle brake instead, designed to limit recoil, then as long as it didnt have more than a 7 round mag, a pistol grip and a bayonet lug
then you wouldnt need the E cat.

Muzzle-brake???
Shee-it, wish I'd thought of that before this, woulds saved me a lot of hassle.

Wolf

9th February 2007, 21:58

I've got a pump-action with a 18 shot mag, pistol-grip and laser sight BUT FOR SOME REASON IS NOT RESTRICTED.
Yet my 5-SHOT semi-auto with flash supressor needs an E-cat licence?????

Good old NZ Govt, run by idiots that we pay!!!!
You can "thank" that fucking lying MP who turned up in The House with a semi-automatic Norinco AK-47 copy and made a loud noise in parliament (with full media coverage) about how he bought a fully automatic assault rifle over the counter with no restrictions.

No restrictions except having to get a police clearance, sit and pass a firearms safety course and gain a firearms licence.

Fucking political grandstanding and the fact that the political journos are just as fucking stupid and easily led as the politicians themselves.

The bit that really bites is that I'm sure its an offence to enter parliament with a firearm unless you're a Personal Protection Specialist (aka body guard) and yet the lying cock got away with it because he had "highlighted important flaws in our legal system"...

scumdog

9th February 2007, 22:01

Too late, I had already got all the firearms I would need before that.

(and more since then)

Dai

9th February 2007, 22:04

You can "thank" that fucking lying MP who turned up in The House with a semi-automatic Norinco AK-47 copy and made a loud noise in parliament (with full media coverage) about how he bought a fully automatic assault rifle over the counter with no restrictions.

No restrictions except having to get a police clearance, sit and pass a firearms safety course and gain a firearms licence.

Fucking political grandstanding and the fact that the political journos are just as fucking stupid and easily led as the politicians themselves.

The bit that really bites is that I'm sure its an offence to enter parliament with a firearm unless you're a Personal Protection Specialist (aka body guard) and yet the lying cock got away with it because he had "highlighted important flaws in our legal system"...

We do as they say not as they do.

Just because we elect most of them it doesnt mean we have the right to expect them to work on our behalf.

Especially if the have an important agenda that they wish to fulfill.

You must realise that they are doing important work and cant be bothered with trivialities like actually listening and acting upon our wishes. By doing so it may somehow reflect badly upon their personal aspirations and possibly damage them financially.

Just be a good voter and come out every election tnhen go away and unles you are a minority that may may headlines, dont bothe them

Mumbles

10th February 2007, 09:23

If Own both rifles and am in POSSESION of a high capacity magazine capable of fitting the 10/22 and I do not have an E cat, then I am guilty of an offense.

Its not the use of such a magazine but the possesion of it and the possible use.

You will find that having a E cat License and owning both mag and gun will not get you off either, you have to have the "weapon" on you license (I.E your 10/22) or you can get into big trouble, noted this during a club 3 gun shoot, some of the guys TRIED to used their A Cat Mini 14's and borrowing 20 & 30 round mags to shoot the course of fire, only to be told you cant do that :nono: unless its on you "E". Which as a responsible club we had to enforce, (its not worth loosing all your guns over it). Some of these guys had E cat weapons but only with the fixed mag so made big courses time consuming :zzzz:

I say if you going to put 300 rounds down range and some one lets you use their “E cat” with factory ammo then take it :Punk: :sunny: Thanks god for members who share their guns :sunny:

Dai

10th February 2007, 16:57

...

I say if you going to put 300 rounds down range and some one lets you use their “E cat” with factory ammo then take it :Punk: :sunny: Thanks god for members who share their guns :sunny:

Sorry to burst your bubble here but it is illegal for a holder of an E cat licence to allow it to be used by someone who doesnt hold a similar licence.

Unlike pistols where they can be used under supervision a MSSA cannot be loaned.

This is one of the things they have been trying to pass in the new laws the police are trying to introduce. The only one that makes sense.

Check out the "guide to Police Officers" on the police site.

Again you better inform your club members. They are all liable under the firearms laws of this country of an offence if they lend their E cat MSSA's to a non E Cat holder.

mikey

11th February 2007, 20:04

To own a 50 round banana mag you need to have an E cat licence.
There is, however, a funny little legal loophole that means that magazines, on their own, do not require a firearms licence to purchase.

One can, for instance, buy an A-cat L1A1 and then go straight out and anonymously purchase a standard 20-round magazine for it, thereby becoming instantly naughty in the sight of the law with very little effort.

I'm sure nobody would ever commit such a heinous crime, naturally.

which is how the wainui possum guerrila attakc squdron of mass death NAZI GAS CHAMBERS OF DOOM squad has one.
shame that there all shit shots, and are either drunk or blazed, strugglign to hold onto the back of the ute, let alone let rip a 50 round mag into a possum thats 3 meters away. still a lot of fun.

R6_kid

11th February 2007, 20:09

which is how the wainui possum guerrila attakc squdron of mass death NAZI GAS CHAMBERS OF DOOM squad has one.
shame that there all shit shots, and are either drunk or blazed, strugglign to hold onto the back of the ute, let alone let rip a 50 round mag into a possum thats 3 meters away. still a lot of fun.

judging by that post i'd say you were a member...

Swoop

12th February 2007, 13:25

I've got a pump-action with a 18 shot mag, pistol-grip and laser sight BUT FOR SOME REASON IS NOT RESTRICTED.
Yet my 5-SHOT semi-auto with flash supressor needs an E-cat licence?????
Pump action does not fall under E-cat. Self-loading rifles only.

As others have said regarding the "just buy a big mag for the bolt action" excuse...
Simply having the 2 components on the same premises is enough for you to be in big guano. Case law exists in NZ already from precisely this event.

Dai

12th February 2007, 13:37

Pump action does not fall under E-cat. Self-loading rifles only.

As others have said regarding the "just buy a big mag for the bolt action" excuse...
Simply having the 2 components on the same premises is enough for you to be in big guano. Case law exists in NZ already from precisely this event.

Agree here. Mere possesion is an offence , if by having a mag it is possible to change an A cat rifle to an E cat.

I remeber in the UK that when semi auto rifles were made illegal the "practical rifle" shooters had the BLR refitted to shoot .223 and take AR15/16 magazines. 30 rounds with a lever action can be bloody fast.

Best I've done with my lever action '92 Rossi is 10 rounds of .44 mag. Range 20 yards, time 8 seconds. All in a 4" group.

Good enough for CAS

Smokin

18th February 2007, 09:48

this is the description of the one i was looking at:

Savage 93R17F

"Caliber .17 HMR Overall 39.5'' Barrel 20.75'' Twist 1 in 9'' Weight 5 lbs Magazine 5 rounds Stock synthetic Scope bases. Features: AccuTrigger, blued bolt-action, free-floating, button-rifled barrel, swivel studs with detachable magazine. Supplied with 3-9 x 32 Scope and Simmons Rings."

also comes with bag and some ammo.....
im looking at a target barrel model so its more acurate over long distances theese retail for $595 for one with out ammo or bag.

ive managed to get ahold of the importers factory in albany who recons he will do it for 495 with bag and ammo.... not bad aye

Thanks mate
I just bought a Savage 17hmr in stainless steel with a synthetic stock and varmint barrel, just sent my entry form back for the "Easter bunny shoot" down at Alexandra as well, Look out bunnies :bye:

Sniper

18th February 2007, 15:20

Thanks mate
I just bought a Savage 17hmr in stainless steel with a synthetic stock and varmint barrel, just sent my entry form back for the "Easter bunny shoot" down at Alexandra as well, Look out bunnies :bye:

You hunting in a team? Im hoping to head down that way too.

Smokin

18th February 2007, 15:34

Yep, I'm in a team, May be able to get you into our team if you are planning on going by yourself. It's an awesome weekend and it would have to be the highlight of the year for me. Can't wait.

scumdog

19th February 2007, 09:41

Slightly :Offtopic: but I see armed London Police are having to increase their patrolling in the area due to three teenagers (two 15 year-olds and a 16 year old) being shot in the last fortnight, two wounded and one killed in gang related 'incidents'

Hoo- boy, those really tough Pommy anti-gun laws are REALLY paying off eh?

Kids in their mid-teens packing guns, oh yeah, those tough laws the :tugger: wanker politicians said would make Britain safer have really hit home with the criminal element......just imagine the carnage if 15 year olds WERE allowed to carry guns...:rolleyes:

Swoop

19th February 2007, 11:34

Yup. SUPER safe in UK now......... :rofl:

Also slightly off topic. There is something on the "Target" consumer programme this week, about gun shops.
Might be worth a giggle.

Wolf

19th February 2007, 12:00

Also slightly off topic. There is something on the "Target" consumer programme this week, about gun shops.
Might be worth a giggle.
What are they going to do? Try to see if they can get firearms or ammo without a licence?

What day and time is it on?

ManDownUnder

19th February 2007, 14:25

Took little Mr 7 (Ruben) rabbit shooting for the first time over the w/e... a father and son thing. I was in charge of pulling the trigger - he's on spotlight.

Little bugger has the beam of light flying back and forth at a hundred miles an hour - I'm hoping and praying for anything to show up in the light so I can show him what to look for - in the hope he'll take it easy with the light and get into a reasonable search pattern.

Bugger me I hear "Dad - there's 2 over there, and another 3 over there". He was right too - stuffed if I saw them but then he's the one in charge of the (high speed) light...

Dropped one and went over to recover it when he mentioned it was sad they had to be shot. No tears, but a respect for the animal which I have to say pleased me no end. We packed it in at that point. It was cold (for him), well past his bedtime and we'd had a good night walking under the stars.

Bloody awesome. I doubt I'll forget Saturday night for a long long time.

Anyhoo - as you were!

ManDownUnder

19th February 2007, 15:25

Yep, I'm in a team, May be able to get you into our team if you are planning on going by yourself. It's an awesome weekend and it would have to be the highlight of the year for me. Can't wait.

PM sent...

0arbreaka

19th February 2007, 17:22

I wouldnt mind going to the easter bunny hunt sometime, its just a question of funds at the moment for me.

Smokin

19th February 2007, 17:58

I wouldnt mind going to the easter bunny hunt sometime, its just a question of funds at the moment for me.

Just do it mate, You wont regret it for a minute. Last year the prize for the farhest traveled entrent and the oldest went to a guy from auckland, 65 years old and rode from Auckland to Christchurch on an XR600, he only make it to christchurch because the vibration got to him and he borrowed a car from there. The year before the prize went to a team from the US Marines.
they didn't do very well either just quietly.:shutup:

Smokin

20th February 2007, 17:35

PM sent...

Welcome to the Easter Bunny Shoot ManDownUnder and Sniper, You Guys are going to have a ball.

Jonny Rotten

20th February 2007, 18:09

Welcome to the Easter Bunny Shoot ManDownUnder and Sniper, You Guys are going to have a ball.

where is this bummy shoot???

can i bring the shot gun?

Smokin

20th February 2007, 18:12

where is this bummy shoot???

can i bring the shot gun?

Alexandra, Yep shotgun is the weapon of choice.

Sniper

20th February 2007, 20:25

Welcome to the Easter Bunny Shoot ManDownUnder and Sniper, You Guys are going to have a ball.

You are a fucken legend

0arbreaka

20th February 2007, 22:23

Do you have to use steel shot or normal shot for the bunny hunt?

Smokin

21st February 2007, 03:35

you can still use lead on bunnies unless you are trying to decoy them onto your pond.

ManDownUnder

21st February 2007, 09:38

Sniper

21st February 2007, 10:45

Mr Merde

21st February 2007, 10:51

Might need to get me a pump action 12ga me thinks... them bunnies might be too swift for the .22 (but I'll bring that too - just in case...!)

Mossberg pump (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Shotguns/photos/a-89030199/p-35033285.htm) ought to do it. hmmm...

What size shot would you be thinking using.

What range will you be firing from.

If it was me I would be looking at #4 or #5 shot as it has a little bit more striking power and range than #7.

Better a miss than a wound. Better to be able reach out that little further. All it means is that you will have to be a bit more accurate.

ManDownUnder

21st February 2007, 10:56

What size shot would you be thinking using.

What range will you be firing from.

If it was me I would be looking at #4 or #5 shot as it has a little bit more striking power and range than #7.

Better a miss than a wound. Better to be able reach out that little further. All it means is that you will have to be a bit more accurate.

Jesus - too many questions!

err.. shotgun... not a very long barrel with a range of chokes. Will buy ammo onsite at the shoot (so I expect they'll know best.

I'm not too hot with a shotty (not bad when I had my 20 ga) but I figure the practice will sure halp... 200 rounds at moving targets, and I don't even have to yell "PULL!"

The same's true of the .22 of course - and cheaper to run.

Mr Merde

21st February 2007, 11:02

I'm not a shotgun expert but do own a few.

Easy to use. #4 or #5 will reach out just that little bit further, could mean the difference between a clean kill or a wound.

#7 would be good for 40-50 yards, after that the spread and the size of the pellets may count against it.

Sniper

21st February 2007, 11:24

Hmm, knowledgable fellow Mr Merde, I shall watch you with great interest and pick your brains in regards to shotguns when I can

Mr Merde

21st February 2007, 12:12

Hmm, knowledgable fellow Mr Merde, I shall watch you with great interest and pick your brains in regards to shotguns when I can

Not really.

Like all firearms, I want to learn more. Therefore I practice, I read, I pick the brains of those who know the subject better than I.

Shotguns and the use of intrigue me. Prior to comming to NZ I had very little experience of them. Now I love using them.

A good shotgun points really naturally.

You dont so much as aim but just fire in the diection of where you think the target is going to be.

A whole new skill I have had to learn.

Even the reloading of shotshells is intriguing. Not that far from reloading for cartridges but interesting in its differences.

In my youth I spent a lot of time at a shotgun makers in London. Purdey. Just admiring the workmanship of what they were producing.

Smokin

21st February 2007, 13:02

Mr Merde

21st February 2007, 13:10

most people will be using #4 shot 1 1/4 oz, I wouldnt buy it on site MDU, he seems to only be there to rob the hunters that came unprepaired, The local CRT has been the cheapest seller we have come across for the last 2 years by quite a margin, From memory they have one in Alexandra as well. I'll pop into town in a minute and have a talk to them and see if I can buy it here and pick it up down there, if they will I'll send you a PM.
Last year the price difference between CRT and the chap in Alexandra was $40 per box. He's a Thief.
The problem I have with pump actions is that when you reload, the racking of the slide tends to pull your sights off target and when there is a 1/2 a dozen rabbits taking off infront of you speed and quick re-aiming as you go from bunny to bunny is a real advantage.

Pumps can be good but semi autos kick ass:ar15:

I thought that #4 would be the one to go for.
Loaning MDU a Winchester 1200 Defender pump action. (not using it for a while).
It currently has a 20" barrel on it which makes it easy to follow with. I can slot a 28 inch barrel on. What do you think? 20" or 28".

Last time this shotgun was used was for possums. Worked well.

Havent got a semi to loan unfortunately.

Smokin

21st February 2007, 13:15

I thought that #4 would be the one to go for.
Loaning MDU a Winchester 1200 Defender pump action. (not using it for a while).
It currently has a 20" barrel on it which makes it easy to follow with. I can slot a 28 inch barrel on. What do you think? 20" or 28".

Last time this shotgun was used was for possums. Worked well.

Havent got a semi to loan unfortunately.

20" is fast to point and awesome in at the closer range stuff but I think the 28" will let him reach out and touch the Bunnies abit easier.
Damn good of you to lend it by the way.

Mr Merde

21st February 2007, 13:19

20" is fast to point and awesome in at the closer range stuff but I think the 28" will let him reach out and touch the Bunnies abit easier.
Damn good of you to lend it by the way.

Just gathering dust in the safe place. Someone might as well get some use out of it.

It was the first firearm I bought after comming to NZ 4 years ago. Love shooting it but dont have anywhere near to where I live that I can. Always take it with me when I go up north to a mates farm.

0arbreaka

21st February 2007, 19:13

Smokin

21st February 2007, 20:23

There used to be one called the commando, well I think thats what it was called, made by browning without the expensive name on it. A good sub $1000 shooter from what I understand.
From memory Hunting and Fishing stores sold them.

Mr Merde

21st February 2007, 20:34

Im hoping to get a half decent semi auto for duck season and probably a bit bunny hunting, any recomendations on a 12g? I cant spend mega bucks.
My side by side is a heap of shit (got a bit of pitting in the barrel as my grandad didnt clean it well) and probably needs to be refurbished at some stage because it used to be really nice.

Havent had the pleasure of owning a semi 12 guage yet. Few of my mates bought shotguns from Neil Hayes at http://http://www.hayesandassociates.co.nz/ege_silah.htm (http://www.hayesandassociates.co.nz/ege_silah.htm)

Not too bad a price and they seem to have fun with them. I dont know if they are rated for steel but if not you could always go to the 20 guage. Its only 12guage that is required to use steel shot. You can still use lead with all the other calibers.

Only problem with going to a different guage would be the cost of the ammo and the fact that there would be less pellets in the air. Your aim would have to be a lot better and I dont think you would get the distance of the 12.

What sort of SxS is it that your grand dad left you?
Hammerless or hammers?
There are some really competant gunsmiths in this country that could tidy it up and do a restore. If the barrel isnt to badly pitted then it may be able to have them backbored and the nost of it removed.

Back boring is like honing a cylinder on an engine except it is wider at the breech end than the muzzle. You can have it done to a sawn off and it works the same a a choke.

Hope you find what you are looking for.

0arbreaka

21st February 2007, 21:01

its a hammerless one, its a french brand, I cant remember the name so ill have to have a look and get back to you.

Mr Merde

21st February 2007, 21:14

its a hammerless one, its a french brand, I cant remember the name so ill have to have a look and get back to you.

The French make good shotguns. St Etienne is renowned for its gunmakers. Similar to Birmingham and London except that they are still active in France.

Fired my first suppressed weapon in that town.

.22 bolt action with an integral suppressor. Shot it in the basement of the shop it was made in. Lovely rifle. Very quiet.

Smokin

21st February 2007, 21:18

Have a look at the Escort range, Good prices.

http://www.outdoorsupplies.co.nz/Shotguns.html#escort

scumdog

21st February 2007, 21:20

The French make good shotguns. St Etienne is renowned for its gunmakers. Similar to Birmingham and London except that they are still active in France.

Fired my first suppressed weapon in that town.

.22 bolt action with an integral suppressor. Shot it in the basement of the shop it was made in. Lovely rifle. Very quiet.

I use a take-down French made Gevarm .22 with silencer, 765mm overall length - very sneaky, very quiet.:yes:

Mr Merde

21st February 2007, 22:00

I use a take-down French made Gevarm .22 with silencer, 765mm overall length - very sneaky, very quiet.:yes:

Nice rifle. Takedown is nice. Never had one yet. Had an AR7 once. Whole rifle came apart and fitted into the buttstock. Thats receiver, barrel and two magazines.

I have been told they are not allowed in this country as they can be fired without the buttstock and therefore becmes a hand gun. Not 765mm . Used to tape a litre coke bottle to the barrel and fire it that way. For about 5 shots it was as quiet as hell.

0arbreaka

22nd February 2007, 00:36

Theres quite a few ways in which suppress a firearms, I remember I watched a CSI a while ago and some joker used a potato of all things to silence a shot, im not sure about how effective it was though (he got caught in the end). Ive heard of the coke bottle technique although I havent used it. Just looking on google for way im which silence a firearm it came up with several thousand ways to do so, one of these ways was the above bottle method which seems to be popular in the states as silencers/suppressors are banned over there.

Sniper

22nd February 2007, 07:31

There are lots of ways to "silence" a firearm. Where the shot ends up suffers unforunatly. May favourite (although Im never allowed to attempt it, no matter how many teddy bears I try steal) is the teddy bear and the pistol

Chaosmage

22nd February 2007, 07:52

Mr Merde

22nd February 2007, 07:56

Went skeet shooting the other week for a stag do. Came tops only got 9/10 though. Managed to hit most with the forst shot and used the second to shoot at the pieces, which I pulled off twice. Shit it was fun, hadn't shot a shotgun for over 15years and never at skeets before.

As I hope I have shown, I am a newcomer to shotgun shooting, be it an enthusiastic one, I am not up on the various types of shootguning.

WHat is the difference between skeet shooting and clays? Please explain the various disciplines to me.

Sniper

22nd February 2007, 08:44

WHat is the difference between skeet shooting and clays? Please explain the various disciplines to me.

Skeet: A form of clay-target shooting where targets are thrown from two traps about 37 metres apart and the shooter moves in an arc to different stations, firing from various angles. Target: A board marked with concentric circles which shooters aim to hit.

Mr Merde

22nd February 2007, 08:57

Skeet: A form of clay-target shooting where targets are thrown from two traps about 37 metres apart and the shooter moves in an arc to different stations, firing from various angles. Target: A board marked with concentric circles which shooters aim to hit.

Sounds like a load of fun.

Darts with pellets :rockon:

I remeber my mates overseas talking about "down the line" and "runing hare" and "field". Bewildering number of disciplines

Mr Merde

22nd February 2007, 10:43

Quizz for you.

Anyone know who the person is in my avatar?

As a hint, there is a corrolation between him and my name Mr Merde

Sniper

22nd February 2007, 11:35

Jean Pierre?

Clivoris

22nd February 2007, 13:44

Went skeet shooting the other week for a stag do. Came tops only got 9/10 though. Managed to hit most with the forst shot and used the second to shoot at the pieces, which I pulled off twice. Shit it was fun, hadn't shot a shotgun for over 15years and never at skeets before.

We did some clay shooting at a team building day once. I managed eight out of ten. The best thing was our petite, christian, 17 year old female admin assistant who had never handled a firearm before, scoring ten out of ten. No shit. I asked her why she did so well she said " I don't know...all I did was pray".
That's my kind of God.