The firearm thread [Archive] - Page 3

ManDownUnder

18th April 2007, 09:57

Ok all - question regading silencers.

This is for sale (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-96342467.htm)

I note it's being sold with a silencer which - to my understanding will take a reasonable amount of the "BANG" out of what happens inside the barrel (i.e. the powder burning/pressure wave arriving with a "BANG")

But... the projectile a very supersonic and the bang from that will still echo and roar around the hills.

Can anyone explain what actually happens (i.e. point out what I don't know and fill the gaps?)

Wolf

18th April 2007, 10:19

I note it's being sold with a silencer which - to my understanding will take a reasonable amount of the "BANG" out of what happens inside the barrel (i.e. the powder burning/pressure wave arriving with a "BANG")

But... the projectile a very supersonic and the bang from that will still echo and roar around the hills.

Can anyone explain what actually happens (i.e. point out what I don't know and fill the gaps?)
That is why I use sub-sonic .22lr ammo in my Brno. The travel noise (aka sonic "boom") of the projectile passing the intended target is audible and will spook it. It will probably, if sufficient, echo off hills.

You could load your own with less powder to make a subsonic round - at a cost to energy and trajectory.

The term used is "moderator", not silencer - silencers are illegal (or would be if they existed because nothing ever really "silences" a firearm, only moderates the sound to something hopefully unobtrusive.)

I use a moderated ("silenced") .22lr Brno with sub-sonic ammo and get an "apologetic cough" rather than a bang. It's audible, but the game does not associate it with a threat -YET. Nowhere near as loud as the crack of an unmoderated weapon firing supersonic projectiles.

ManDownUnder

18th April 2007, 10:22

That is why I use sub-sonic .22lr ammo in my Brno. The travel noise (aka sonic "boom") of the projectile passing the intended target is audible and will spook it. It will probably, if sufficient, echo off hills.

Ok - cheers. So, to further refine my question then... moderator on a 17HMR...

What's the point? Won't it take out the powder burn *bang*, but still leave the supersonic CRACK?

Sniper

18th April 2007, 10:29

Ok - cheers. So, to further refine my question then... moderator on a 17HMR...

What's the point? Won't it take out the powder burn *bang*, but still leave the supersonic CRACK?

The sound of a round leaving the barrel leaves a sonic signature and the prey or intended target can then pinpoint from where the shot came. The purpouse of a moderator is to confuse your prey who is less likely to run if they are unsure where the shots are coming from and how close you are and in extreme circumstances, confuse them enough to believe you are not shooting at them, but somewhere else

Thats my understanding of it :)

Wolf

18th April 2007, 10:36

Ok - cheers. So, to further refine my question then... moderator on a 17HMR...

What's the point? Won't it take out the powder burn *bang*, but still leave the supersonic CRACK?

Not a lot of point on a magnum round as you are quite correct, the powder bang - the escaping gases from the muzzle will be slowed/softened by the baffles but the supersonic crack will remain.

I don't know if 17HMR rounds are available in subsonic version (kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?).

The moderator will quieten it down somewhat - it would not be as loud as an unmoderated HMR but it won't be secret-squirrel quiet

Wolf

18th April 2007, 10:40

The purpouse of a moderator is to confuse your prey who is less likely to run if they are unsure where the shots are coming from and how close you are and in extreme circumstances, confuse them enough to believe you are not shooting at them, but somewhere else
Hmmm, never heard that. My thought was it was to make the sound less "startling" but I could be wrong.

If it does indeed confuse the prey then I suppose it wouldn't matter if the round itself was making a sonic boom - unless it's passing close by the prey's head like my bloody possum :D

Sniper

18th April 2007, 10:45

Hmmm, never heard that. My thought was it was to make the sound less "startling" but I could be wrong.

If it does indeed confuse the prey then I suppose it wouldn't matter if the round itself was making a sonic boom - unless it's passing close by the prey's head like my bloody possum :D

I think there are so many different theories behind it and none of them are wrong.

I, for the life of me, cannot understand why people fit moderator to their .308's and .270s when the go hunting. Do you ever see professinal marksman do that? Want a quiet round, .300 whisper... :D

Mr Merde

18th April 2007, 11:00

The sound of a round leaving the barrel leaves a sonic signature and the prey or intended target can then pinpoint from where the shot came. The purpouse of a moderator is to confuse your prey who is less likely to run if they are unsure where the shots are coming from and how close you are and in extreme circumstances, confuse them enough to believe you are not shooting at them, but somewhere else

Thats my understanding of it :)

This is my understanding of a moderator on a supersonic round, also. It will not muffle the noise as much as subs but it does make it very hard to tell where the shot came from.

There are no sub loadings for the .17hmr as far as I know.

Wolf

18th April 2007, 11:41

I, for the life of me, cannot understand why people fit moderator to their .308's and .270s when the go hunting.

Ummm, to quieten it down to the level of a .303? :D

First time I fired a .308 I thought the world had come to an end. I was sure people could hear it in town.

Only previous time anything sounded that loud was a .30-30 being fired suddenly 3 feet away in the middle of a quiet night in the bush...

Sniper

18th April 2007, 11:46

Ummm, to quieten it down to the level of a .303? :D

First time I fired a .308 I thought the world had come to an end. I was sure people could hear it in town.

Only previous time anything sounded that loud was a .30-30 being fired suddenly 3 feet away in the middle of a quiet night in the bush...

Tis true, they can scare the shit outta ya. Almost as scary as a cold, wet MDU wanting to climb in the car :p

I can't say Ive been next to a 30-30 but if its anything like a Gimpy going off 5 feet away from your bivvy because the guys think it would be funny, then I can sympathise

scumdog

18th April 2007, 11:53

I think there are so many different theories behind it and none of them are wrong.

I, for the life of me, cannot understand why people fit moderator to their .308's and .270s when the go hunting. Do you ever see professinal marksman do that? Want a quiet round, .300 murmer... :D

Cos a silenced (or 'moderated for the pedantic) 308 sounds like a non-silenced 22 magnum - also when firing across open gullies or canyons in the high country they sound even quieter, nowhere near the noise they normally make.

Try this: Fire a silenced 22 using a super-sonic load at a target 50 yards away over flat ground, listen to the sound.

Now fire a shot using the same type of cartridge straight up in the air.

The second shot will be almost silent.

Reason? The 'sonic boom' needs a hard surface to hit for there to be a the noise to be audible.

Why? Effd if I know but it does.:whocares:

A silenced 22 semi-auto with sub-sonic loads is A1 for high rabbit population areas (or in built-up areas for you latte' drinkers) as the noise is minimal (the action cycling is often the loudest noise) and as there is no movement needed from the firer to action the weapon - movement will pin-point you more than the sound.
And the rabbits or whatever in the next gully will have no idea you are near them.:yes:

Wolf

18th April 2007, 12:04

Almost as scary as a cold, wet MDU wanting to climb in the car :p
Now, that'd be scary.

I can't say Ive been next to a 30-30 but if its anything like a Gimpy going off 5 feet away from your bivvy because the guys think it would be funny, then I can sympathise
The .30-30 was not so bad during daylight while everyone's awake and firing rifles. But when you're half asleep, relaxed, in the midst of the bush with only the wind in the trees, the river the crickets and the occasional Morepork breaking the silence, a .30-30 going off at close range is like the Apocalypse.

I had my eyes open as the bloke who fired it had just said "It's too quiet" so I looked over in his direction. I swear the flash extended from him to the river bank some 20 metres away - has to be the after-image of the red-hot arse of the projectile or something because there's no way the hot particles could have reached that far.

His girlfriend was asleep at the time but not for long...

scumdog

18th April 2007, 12:11

Now, that'd be scary.

The .30-30 was not so bad during daylight while everyone's awake and firing rifles. But when you're half asleep, relaxed, in the midst of the bush with only the wind in the trees, the river the crickets and the occasional Morepork breaking the silence, a .30-30 going off at close range is like the Apocalypse.

Use to do that kinda shit when I was younger.

Wait out of sight of the track and knowing my mate was trudging up the steep hill, deer on his back, head down, sweat rolling over his eyes, mind miles away, focussed on getting out out to the road and a cold beer.

Then KABLOOM!! a 308 gets fired into the air about 15 feet away from him.. mwahahaha!!

Mind you, I use to get the same treatment when my mates thought I needed it.:doh:

Swoop

18th April 2007, 12:22

Ummm, to quieten it down to the level of a .303?
A chap, at the club, had an over-barrel surpressor for an L1A1 some years back. It screwed onto the flash suppressor thread once that item had been removed.
Sound was like that of a hi-velocity .22.:shit:

Wolf

18th April 2007, 12:28

A silenced 22 semi-auto with sub-sonic loads is A1 for high rabbit population areas (or in built-up areas for you latte' drinkers) as the noise is minimal (the action cycling is often the loudest noise) and as there is no movement needed from the firer to action the weapon - movement will pin-point you more than the sound.
Something for me to bear in mind if I'm camped out near Bunny Central - I have a bolt action. Need to make sure they don't see my arms.

Sniper

18th April 2007, 12:31

Something for me to bear in mind if I'm camped out near Bunny Central - I have a bolt action. Need to make sure they don't see my arms.

Thats should contribute, but no where near as much as if you were standing up and walking along. I've always found that walking along the top or bottom of a ridge and then stopping and sitting down (if at the bottom) or peaking over the top will bring the bunnies out.

Im sure you are aware, but when shooting downhill, be careful of the high-low factor.

Wolf

18th April 2007, 12:33

A chap, at the club, had an over-barrel surpressor for an L1A1 some years back.
It bloody needs one - the .308 I fired was an L1A1 and my second thought (the first being "FUCK!") was that if you ever converted one to fire full auto, every cop in the country would hear it and converge on your location...

Made the old SMLE sound tame.

Wolf

18th April 2007, 12:34

Then KABLOOM!! a 308 gets fired into the air about 15 feet away from him.. mwahahaha!!
Bwahahahahahahaha! That I can appreciate!

Sniper

18th April 2007, 12:36

A chap, at the club, had an over-barrel surpressor for an L1A1 some years back. It screwed onto the flash suppressor thread once that item had been removed.
Sound was like that of a hi-velocity .22.:shit:

You might find that he has skimped on a bit of the powder if if sounds like that. Any rifle I have fire with a moderator (bar .22) has left alot quieter, but still sounds like hell.

Swoop

18th April 2007, 12:44

You might find that he has skimped on a bit of the powder if if sounds like that. Any rifle I have fire with a moderator (bar .22) has left alot quieter, but still sounds like hell.
'Twas a few years back and I think he was using surplus ball ammo.

Sniper

18th April 2007, 12:49

'Twas a few years back and I think he was using surplus ball ammo.

Hmmm, I can't explain that then. All I can say is............... AWWWWWEEEEESSSSSOOOMMMMEEE

Swoop

18th April 2007, 12:51

Hmmm, I can't explain that then. All I can say is............... AWWWWWEEEEESSSSSOOOMMMMEEE
There were a few of us going "So, how much do you want for it then???":yes: :yes: :yes:

Wolf

18th April 2007, 13:12

'Twas a few years back and I think he was using surplus ball ammo.
I think we were firing cheap PSPs, not certain. Possible it was some surplus FMJ - certainly not anything flash. My friend picked up over a thousand rounds of ammo - some army surplus, some brand-X "hunting ammo" (pointed soft points) - for SFA so it could have been anything except Winchester, Remington, Federal... anything with an actual name, anyway.

ManDownUnder

18th April 2007, 13:47

Tis true, they can scare the shit outta ya. Almost as scary as a cold, wet MDU wanting to climb in the car :p

Hey - I was cold - you looked warm... sounds reasonable to me...

SPman

18th April 2007, 15:10

It bloody needs one - the .308 I fired was an L1A1 and my second thought (the first being "FUCK!") was that if you ever converted one to fire full auto, every cop in the country would hear it and converge on your location...

After the first burst on a L1A2, You dont hear anything, anyway - even with ear protectors....although at sea, they didn't sound too loud....

scumdog

18th April 2007, 19:23

I'm worried, so many Kiwi KBers know/have experienced such a variety of firearms, shee-it, are we turning into America??

Nah, just have the same interests I guess.:innocent:

Swoop

18th April 2007, 22:47

Hey - I was cold - you looked warm... sounds reasonable to me...
Any port in a storm, right...?

After the first burst on a L1A2, You dont hear anything, anyway - even with ear protectors....
L2A1?

Mr Merde

18th April 2007, 23:31

Any port in a storm, right...?

L2A1?

L2A1 is the select fire version of the L1A1. Had a heavy barrel and could if desired fire on full auto.

scumdog

18th April 2007, 23:52

L2A1 is the select fire version of the L1A1. Had a heavy barrel and could if desired fire on full auto.

VERY hard to keep under control if you fired more than 2 or 3 shots at a time.

Wolf

19th April 2007, 01:05

I'm worried, so many Kiwi KBers know/have experienced such a variety of firearms, shee-it, are we turning into America??

Nah, just have the same interests I guess.:innocent:
Well, I fit the profile of a coder geek - into camping, motorbikes, guns and memorising obscure demographic profiles....

jrandom

19th April 2007, 17:04

Here's a question for yez all wot know.

I had a play today with a second-hand S&W model 66. K-frame .357 DA revolver with a 6" barrel, blued with chequered wood grips and, most importantly, going in mint condition for $450.

<img src=http://julia.hanovercomputer.com/firearms/mar04/Catalog/images/51823.jpg></img>

I'm considering buying it for my club armourer to hang onto and bring to shoots while I wait for my 'B'.

Anyone out there who's shot S&Ws and would care to comment on their merits versus other makers, and also on any observable differences between the model 66 and its replacement, the 620, and the heavier and more popular model 686?

SPman

19th April 2007, 17:11

VERY hard to keep under control if you fired more than 2 or 3 shots at a time.
Not mounted on a bracket on a Patrol craft
....L2A1 - 'swot I meant

Wolf

19th April 2007, 20:06

Hey guys

Anyone here collect SMLEs?

I have a Savage Arms No 4 Mk 1* "SMLE" in extremely good condition, fully wooded, date stamped 1945, with US PROPERTY stamped on the receiver ("S" stamps denote Savage Arms as the manufacturer).

I'm wanting to sell it and thought I'd put it out to the Kiwi Bikers before putting it up on Tard-Me.

Anyone interested?

Mr Merde

19th April 2007, 22:04

Here's a question for yez all wot know.

I had a play today with a second-hand S&W model 66. K-frame .357 DA revolver with a 6" barrel, blued with chequered wood grips and, most importantly, going in mint condition for $450.

I'm considering buying it for my club armourer to hang onto and bring to shoots while I wait for my 'B'.

Anyone out there who's shot S&Ws and would care to comment on their merits versus other makers, and also on any observable differences between the model 66 and its replacement, the 620, and the heavier and more popular model 686?

I had a model 13, a 686 and a 586 in the UK. All very good revolvers.

I havent handled a 66 ut from the looks of it I would say it is a sweet revolver. I dont think I would like to fire one with overly heavy loads, my 686 was loaded with 180gn heads over 15 gns of Vhitavouri N110 powder. Velocity was somewhere in the range of 1800fps. Right at the top of the loading charts.

S & W pistols handle very well. The cylinder lockup is exceptionally tight. The sight are well made and easy to adjust. There are a lot of grip manufacturers out there for aftermarkets. Never heard of one, used corectly, breaking. They are accurate with a natural pointing to them.

I havent used many other makes. Fired a lot but settled on the Smith because I liked the way it felt.

That is a good price for one so go for it. Check the cylinder yoke for play. They get loose if they have been shot with overloads.

Mr Merde

jrandom

20th April 2007, 10:49

Anyone here collect SMLEs?

I have a Savage Arms No 4 Mk 1* "SMLE" in extremely good condition, fully wooded, date stamped 1945, with US PROPERTY stamped on the receiver ("S" stamps denote Savage Arms as the manufacturer).

I'm wanting to sell it and thought I'd put it out to the Kiwi Bikers before putting it up on Tard-Me.

ME ME ME!

How much do you want for it?

I really shouldn't, but... I want it.

[Edit: I'm going to get in trouble for this.]

jrandom

20th April 2007, 10:52

I dont think I would like to fire one with overly heavy loads...

Not my concern. I'll be loading as light as possible to scrape past the necessary power factor for Service Pistol and IPSC Revolver.

Check the cylinder yoke for play...

I gave it a good wiggle. It's tight as a gnat's arse. Very reassuring.

Wolf

20th April 2007, 11:49

ME ME ME!

How much do you want for it?

I really shouldn't, but... I want it.

[Edit: I'm going to get in trouble for this.]
SD said his son may be interested, so I'm waiting to hear back on that. If he's not interested you're next in line for the throne.

I'm sure I have a "pig-sticker" bayonet that fits it (with sheath and frog) somewhere - trying to remember what box it's in. Sadly it does not have the cleaning kit in the stock, though.

I was thinking around $450 or nearest reasonable offer for the rifle with bayonet.

Freight extra - 2 separate packages, obviously.

scumdog

20th April 2007, 13:01

SD said his son may be interested, so I'm waiting to hear back on that. If he's not interested you're next in line for the throne.

I'm sure I have a "pig-sticker" bayonet that fits it (with sheath and frog) somewhere - trying to remember what box it's in. Sadly it does not have the cleaning kit in the stock, though.

I was thinking around $450 or nearest reasonable offer for the rifle with bayonet.

Freight extra - 2 separate packages, obviously.

Yeah Wolf, he's keen, he had been looking on Tardme etc, he asked me to keep an eye out for exactly the type of rifle you're selling, I've txt him but being a student in Dunners he's a tad slack at answering dad at times., will chase him up.

Wolf

20th April 2007, 14:00

jrandom

20th April 2007, 14:28

could you recommend a courier that's OK with transporting firearms?

I'd say so long as you pack it carefully and well, any courier company should be fine. Last gun I bought on TardMe was sent via NZ Couriers with no issues.

scumdog

20th April 2007, 15:52

Cheers, SD

Considering where y'all are, could you recommend a courier that's OK with transporting firearms?

I've remembered what box the bayonet should be in and I even know where the box is (if you knew me, you'd be truly amazed at that and be yelling "IT'S A MERKLE!").

Will confirm tonight.

Just got off the phone talking to No.1 son, he's keen but his goods logistic replacement career (shelf-filler to you and I) doesn't pay as much as he would like and being a 'scarfie' he's always broke so he asked me to ask you to give him 10 days grace to get the cash together.

He's only just got the job and didn't think ke'd come across a rifle like that so quickly. (Bloody KB has a lot to answer for eh?)

ManDownUnder

20th April 2007, 16:01

So lads... guide me..

I've got the problem of a lifetime coming up and I'm hoping you all can help me. See I gone and done some bunny shooting... loved it.

I got me a shotgun - arriving tomorrow... loving that!

I'm going to be temporarily overwhelmed with cash due to the sale of a house and I figure with 6 figures coming in... the expenditure of 4 should be a lot more easily forgiven... right?

Hmmmmmm

Got me a GOOD air rifle
Got me an ok .22 - wouldn't mind upgrading to stainless/synthetic kit though
Got me a GOOD shotty (arriving...).

I need - time and place to use each of the above... and - well... there seems to be a calibre missing. Something like a 243 or 270 mebbe... and of course the excuse to use it (was that a roaring noise I heard?)

...help me out here....

Deer hunting appeals. Pig hunting less so - but those are both reasonably unqualified opinions. I've always liked the thought of the 270 WSM. And likewise the A-Bolt stainless rifles. Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Mr Merde

20th April 2007, 16:14

Finding a place to hunt is the same problem I have. That and being a fat, unfit, lazy bastard.

It would be nice to find a place where I can just sight in the rifles and try out reloads as and when I needed to.

I could put you in touch with a couple of mates of mine who hunt down Taupo way. When younger I used to hunt down the Whakatane. That was fun.

As to calibers.

Never fired the 270WSM, apparently a good round but personally I do not like the .270. Much prefer the .308.

For deer go for any one of the calibers you mentioned. .243 is good .270 is good

the 6.5 x 55 is a lovely round to shoot as is the 25-06 (my next hunting caliber). Both have a long reach, they are easy in recoil and will take any animal in NZ.

Its all a matter of personal preference. One of my shooting buddies swears by the 7mm-08 .

Hows that I've thrown 4 more calibers into the equation.

Mr Merde

20th April 2007, 16:32

MDU,

I take it was you who repped me and added the comment casting aspersions upon my parentage

LOL

Mr Merde

20th April 2007, 16:44

MDU.

Just a thought.

Join the Deerstalkers Assn. at Riverhead.

They have a range you can use to familiarise yourself with the rifle.

They also organise hunting trips of various skill levels.

Mr :shit:

ManDownUnder

20th April 2007, 16:46

MDU,

I take it was you who repped me and added the comment casting aspersions upon my parentage

LOL

Yes - why... you saying they were married?

MDU.

Just a thought.

Join the Deerstalkers Assn. at Riverhead.

They have a range you can use to familiarise yourself with the rifle.

They also organise hunting trips of various skill levels.

Mr :shit:

True - time to track 'em down me thinks... get me a rilfe... a trip.. and a chest freezer!

jrandom

20th April 2007, 16:47

MDU, don't bother with the .270 WSM. If you look at the ballistics, it only gives an extra 20-30 metres of effective point-blank range over the .270 at the expense of greatly increased blast and recoil as well as more pricey ammo.

My next rifle purchase is going to be a Savage .243 stainless/synthetic, with a Leupold 3-7x scope, an MAE suppressor and a bipod, as a result of some at-length examination of the questions you posed above.

Personally, I sway toward the .243 for hunting in the field. The idea of using 'just enough gun' turns me on.

Mr Merde

20th April 2007, 16:49

Yes - why... you saying they were married?

True - time to track 'em down me thinks... get me a rilfe... a trip.. and a chest freezer!

Yep they were, I know coz I was there.

Wolf

20th April 2007, 17:46

My next rifle purchase is going to be a Savage .243 stainless/synthetic, with a Leupold 3-7x scope, an MAE suppressor and a bipod,
shtup shutup shutup.

I'm about ready to cry.

Fuck it, I think I will cry.

Great selection, there, dude.

Wolf

20th April 2007, 17:48

Yep they were, I know coz I was there.
Damn, gotta spread the rep before I can give it to you again. Nice retort.

Swoop

20th April 2007, 17:48

Oh dear. Hunting rifle calibres... this might take a while.

Biggles2000

20th April 2007, 21:56

The last Deer I shot was taken with a 54cal Hawken black powder muzzle loader. It was just the rifle I had in my hand when we found game. The .54 home made round ball did the job and the Deer was dead before it hit the ground. It was a very satisfying shot because I did it in front of my mates who had been slagging me off about taking such an old fashioned fire arm along. The moral of this story is it doesn't matter what caliber or cartridge you use, within reason, just as long as you get out and do it. Almost any center fire cartridge with proper bullet placement will take any NZ game.

Mr Merde

21st April 2007, 15:09

I just had a phone call from one of my shooting buddies.

He is in the process of looking for a farm to buy with the intention of building a shooting complex on it.

It will be in the greater Auckland area.

What he is thinking of building is a complex with 6 pistol bays (all 25 meters) 2 rifle ranges (100m and 200m) and a shotgun area. Also thinking of putting in a n air gun range (pistol and rifle).

He is very serious about this and has been talking to accountants, lawyers, police etc.

As Ardmore range is closing down there is a distinct lack of somewhere to shoot in Auckland.

He has asked me if I would assist him and his partner in the planning side of things as he knows that I am passionate about all aspects of shooting.

I have agreed to do this.

So watch this space. If it goes ahead it will be good for the NZ shooters.

Wolf

21st April 2007, 23:11

I just had a phone call from one of my shooting buddies.

He is in the process of looking for a farm to buy with the intention of building a shooting complex on it.

It will be in the greater Auckland area.

What he is thinking of building is a complex with 6 pistol bays (all 25 meters) 2 rifle ranges (100m and 200m) and a shotgun area. Also thinking of putting in a n air gun range (pistol and rifle).

He is very serious about this and has been talking to accountants, lawyers, police etc.
I gather the rifle ranges will be open to both small bore and full bore for practise?

Good on you for helping him out.

Mr Merde

22nd April 2007, 08:21

I gather the rifle ranges will be open to both small bore and full bore for practise?

Good on you for helping him out.

Oh yes indeed.

Talking to him yesterday he plans on catering to all styles of shooting eventually.

Pistol ranges set up for action events first (IPSC, CAS, etc) as the outlay is less but he hopes to be able very soon offer the heavy breathing (UIT)disciplines as soon as possible.

He just loves shooting in all its different forms.

Rifle ranges will be able to be used for as heavy a caliber as possible, Thats the reason it is taking a while to find the right place. He needs a good sized hill for a backdrop/safety for these

Apart from the shooting my personal expertise is in computing, in particular networking and hardware. This is another reason he wants me involved as he is really hoping to make this place as modern as possible or as budget constraints allow.

As soon as he finds the right place he is going to get Peter Miles there immediately. Peter is the gentleman who issues range certifications in NZ. Plan on involving him right from the very start so that it should run smoothly. We want to get a licence to shoot for as long a time period as possible. e.g., 9am to 10pm would be really nice.

He has appointments with estate agents all this comming week and all over the greater Auckland area.

It is a very exciting prospect and I hope it really comes off.

Mr :shit:

pritch

22nd April 2007, 10:34

As soon as he finds the right place he is going to get Peter Miles there immediately. Peter is the gentleman who issues range certifications in NZ.

Ummm almost.

Peter is one of the Pistol NZ Range certification people. He happens to be the one located just north of the Bombay Hills.

New Zealand does not stop at the Bombays:whistle:

ManDownUnder

22nd April 2007, 11:23

Anyone looking for gun manuals...?

Found lots - right here (http://www.stevespages.com/page7b.htm)

Wolf

22nd April 2007, 11:27

It is a very exciting prospect and I hope it really comes off.

Likewise, it sounds like a worthy idea.

Finding a good place to practise or sight rifles in is a real mission. Used to use a friend's farm until they moved away. Most recent practise was ages ago on DOC land for which I'd secured a hunting permit - didn't see any game and I was buggered if I was going to leave with the rifle unfired. There wasn't enough clear space to practise over a decent range, however.

Mr Merde

22nd April 2007, 12:58

...
New Zealand does not stop at the Bombays:whistle:

Doesnt it?

Better revise my geography a bit then.

Where does it stop?

Is the same language used? What about currency?

Am I looking at a lynching here?

Mr :shit:

scumdog

22nd April 2007, 13:02

Doesnt it?

Better revise my geography a bit then.

Where does it stop?

Is the same language used? What about currency?

Am I looking at a lynching here?

Mr :shit:

Answers:

(a) No

(b)You had better too!!

(c)A long way from where you are.

(d)Yes and Yes

(e)And YES for sure!

Mr Merde

22nd April 2007, 13:07

Answers:

(a)You had better too!!

(b)A long way from where you are.

(c)Yes and Yes

(d)And YES for sure

As a native born Southlander, (Invercargill to be exact), with lots of relelatives in Invercargill and Gore I suppose I will not be welcome down there in November when I plan on visiting for the first time since 1976.

SD.

Do you know the Hamlin family in Gore. I think there was about 10 of them.

Cousins to me. The old man came from Kurow, my mather from Makarewa. I escaped when I was 2 years old.

scumdog

22nd April 2007, 15:02

SD.

Do you know the Hamlin family in Gore. I think there was about 10 of them.

Cousins to me. The old man came from Kurow, my mather from Makarewa. I escaped when I was 2 years old.

Yeah, I know Kevin Hamlin, he's a hot rodder type (or use to be) and runs Carnaby Cars (car dealer) in Gore.

Sniper

22nd April 2007, 15:31

Is there anyone else, bar myself that finds MDU's infatuations with firearms just the slightest worrying

Mr Merde

22nd April 2007, 15:40

Yeah, I know Kevin Hamlin, he's a hot rodder type (or use to be) and runs Carnaby Cars (car dealer) in Gore.

Yep thats one of them. His mum is my dads sister. Havent seen them in a very long time. 1968 to be exact.

If you run into him tell him Uncle Jim's family say hello.

Mr Merde

22nd April 2007, 15:42

Is there anyone else, bar myself that finds MDU's infatuations with firearms just the slightest worrying

You mean the same infatuation you, I and most of the others on this thread have?

Mmmmmmm

NOT IN THE LEAST BIT.

Mr :shit:

Sniper

22nd April 2007, 15:48

You mean the same infatuation you, I and most of the others on this thread have?

Mmmmmmm

NOT IN THE LEAST BIT.

Mr :shit:

Hey, in my defense, I don't look for gun manuals on the web :p

Mr Merde

22nd April 2007, 15:53

Hey, in my defense, I don't look for gun manuals on the web :p

I'll give you that one.

I love the way newbies try to find everything at once.

In my defence I still look for these resources as well but not as often as I used to.

Mr :shit:

Sniper

22nd April 2007, 16:30

I'll give you that one.

I love the way newbies try to find everything at once.

In my defence I still look for these resources as well but not as often as I used to.

Mr :shit:

Can't blame MDU for that. He is a bloody sponge when it comes to soaking up things about boom sticks.

Me, well Im of African birth, I had to teach myself whilst running away from lions. They seem to do much better that sticks.

Also, MDU, thanks for the Latte :P

(Sorry, I had one of those stupid, nieve questions posed to me by the sad, cloudy minds of youth today)

0arbreaka

22nd April 2007, 19:18

Mr Merde

22nd April 2007, 19:29

The time has come for me to invest in another fine firearm, although this time I am unsure of what to buy, does anyone have any recomendations as to what I should get? I wouldnt mind getting something that I can have a bit of fun with, wouldnt mind a varmint rifle or a decent shotty. Open to most recomendations and offers.

Is this an open question.

Sort of like "I'm ready to buy a motorbike. Tell me which one to buy"

Horses for courses.

What do you want to do?

How much have you to spend?

WHat licence's do you have?

I cant advise you without any information and I doubt anyone else can.

Get specific. Varmit rifle is a start. Tell us more. Where do you intend to shoot, what do you intend to shoot?

Over to you

Mr :shit:

doc

22nd April 2007, 20:01

I just had a phone call from one of my shooting buddies.

He is in the process of looking for a farm to buy with the intention of building a shooting complex on it.

It will be in the greater Auckland area.

What he is thinking of building is a complex with 6 pistol bays (all 25 meters) 2 rifle ranges (100m and 200m) and a shotgun area. Also thinking of putting in a n air gun range (pistol and rifle).
.It's not quite the area you want, but I've always thought, that the peice of Real Estate on the left just as you leave Huntly heading to Hamiliton. That would be an ideal range. Just across a railway line and looks like an old quarry .

0arbreaka

22nd April 2007, 20:58

What do you want to do?

How much have you to spend?

WHat licence's do you have?

I cant advise you without any information and I doubt anyone else can.

Get specific. Varmit rifle is a start. Tell us more. Where do you intend to shoot, what do you intend to shoot?

Over to you

Ive got about a grand at the moment, but I'll have more come next payday.
Planning to shoot anything from rabbits up to goats and probably some possums, but for the tree dwellers I prefer using a shotgun. Some family friends have a Large-ish piece of land on the Mahurangi Peninsula which just so happens to have a goat and rabbit problem, I said Id try and make a dent in the populations. This block is farmland and it is quite hilly in parts while quite flat in others. I wouldnt mind something thats reso high quality and is known for accuracy.

But like I said before I am open to recomendations.

Sniper

22nd April 2007, 21:14

.223 or .243 in my opinion man.

Im not an avid hunter, I don't have as much skill as Fish and them, but thats my opinions for what its worth

Mr Merde

23rd April 2007, 00:57

.223 or .243 in my opinion man.

Im not an avid hunter, I don't have as much skill as Fish and them, but thats my opinions for what its worth

I've used both rounds on goats. Works very well and with proper placement you are looking at 1 shot kills. Both accurate rounds with the .243 hitting just that bit harder.

On rabbits I would be loathe to use a .243 as the cost would be really prohibitive. .223 would still make a hell of a mess but less costly.

.22 for bunnies. or even a .17 HMR

As for make of rifle. Definitely a bolt action. Go for a Tikka or a Sako. I have a Weatherby in .223 that shoots very accurately. If you are going to use this in bush then go for a rifle with a composite stock. Wood looks real nice but the plastic fantastic stocks take all sorts of abuse.

there you have a couple of suggestions from me.

The only other advice I can give is to look around. Find the gun you like and stick with it. I've seen some brilliant shots with rifles that I thought were clapped out. Those people knew their firearms and what they could do.

Mr :shit:

scumdog

23rd April 2007, 01:59

I've seen some brilliant shots with rifles that I thought were clapped out. Those people knew their firearms and what they could do.

Mr :shit:

So you've seen my 308 Finnwolf have you???

Lost its 'new' look in 1974 and has gone downhill in the appearance stakes since then.:yes:

jrandom

23rd April 2007, 02:52

I don't have as much skill as Fish...

Oh gawd. You do realise that you just jinxed me into shooting like crap whenever anyone's watching for the next several months, don't you?

Just for the record, I lay no claim to any shooting skills whatsoever. On a good day, I'm doing well if I remember to point the muzzle downrange before pulling the trigger. Not that it matters, because I generally load cartridges into magazines backwards.

Sniper

23rd April 2007, 07:39

Oh gawd. You do realise that you just jinxed me into shooting like crap whenever anyone's watching for the next several months, don't you?

Nah, thats a common misbelief. It will only work if you tell 3 friends while doing a line dance and drinking warm bavarian beer. Besides, Im talking about hunting skills. Although I would bet a pretty penny you could out shoot me too. :)

Swoop

23rd April 2007, 07:47

I've seen some brilliant shots with rifles that I thought were clapped out. Those people knew their firearms and what they could do.
As the saying goes: "beware the man with one gun, as he will know how to use it".

Mr Merde

23rd April 2007, 09:45

ManDownUnder

23rd April 2007, 14:49

MDU,

Did you get the 1300 yet?

If so how many cases of shells have you been through?

As to that caliber question you asked earlier. I spoke to few of my mates who do a lot of hunting and the general concensus of opinion was that if you wanted a good all rounder, that will be suitable for any game in NZ, then you should go for the 7mm-08. Can be reloaded with lighter projectiles for smaller game. Takes heavy projectiles. Flat shooting, decent range, easy on the recoil.

Mr :shit:

mmmmmmmm BOOM STICK! Arrived on Saturday and I spent the rest of the weekend polishing it's barrel... disturbingly satisfying it was too.

No chance to take it out yet. The fun Police had other plans for the rest of the w/e - I wonder if the range is open on Anzac day...

I have to get yours back to you too - along with a wee pile of lead I found - it mysteriously has your name engraved on it - go figure!

7mm-08 huh? Cheers.

Mr Merde

23rd April 2007, 15:06

mmmmmmmm BOOM STICK! Arrived on Saturday and I spent the rest of the weekend polishing it's barrel... disturbingly satisfying it was too.

No chance to take it out yet. The fun Police had other plans for the rest of the w/e - I wonder if the range is open on Anzac day...

I have to get yours back to you too - along with a wee pile of lead I found - it mysteriously has your name engraved on it - go figure!

7mm-08 huh? Cheers.

With regards to the compensator on my 1200. It was a custom fabrication. It has glued on (so I'm told). If you take the barrel along to a machine shop they should be able to copy it for you.

7mm-08 Remington
The 7mm-08 was introduced in the Remington Model 788 and Model 700 rifles in 1980. After the Model 788 carbine was dropped, the 7mm-08 appeared secondary only to the 7mm magnums in velocity among the various 7mm cartridges. In factory rifles with 18-1/2" and 24" barrels, the 140 grain factory load produces, respectively, 2750 to 2800 and 2900 fps. Such performance comes as a result of introducing the cartridge in modern bolt action rifles, which allows the 7mm-08 to be factory loaded to modern chamber pressures.

Remington's timing in introducing the 7mm-08 was quite good. It came along at the beginning of a trend which saw many eastern hunters begin to switch to short action, turn bolt carbines chambered to cartridges with greater flexibility than those of the .30-30 class. Much of the eastern deer hunting country consists of thick wooded terrain intermixed with logging slashes and cultivated fields. Hunters asked for a short rifles quick handling enough for woods hunting and they accurate and powerful enough for long range shooting. They got exactly what they asked for in the Model 788 and Model Seven carbines.

In addition to big game hunting, the 7mm-08 is also quite popular as an accuracy cartridge used for metallic silhouette (rifle and handgun) and Hunter Rifle class benchrest competition. For competitive shooting, a 168 grain match grade bullet and H380, H4895, IMR-4895, or IMR4320 is a winning combination. For big game hunting with lighter bullets, H414 (javascript:Start('http://www.reloadbench.com/gloss/hh414.html')), H380 (javascript:Start('http://www.reloadbench.com/gloss/hh380.html')), and W-760 (javascript:Start('http://www.reloadbench.com/gloss/w760.html')) are good choices.

Mr :shit:

ManDownUnder

23rd April 2007, 15:09

With regards to the compensator on my 1200. It was a custom fabrication. It has glued on (so I'm told). If you take the barrel along to a machine shop they should be able to copy it for you.

Must spread rep etc - thanks chap.
MDU

Mr Merde

23rd April 2007, 23:21

Its been a little quiet in this thread of late.

Any stimulating discussions of our other chosen sport that needs airing?

I'm a little bored and need the conversation.

Someone please say something.

Mr :shit:

Wolf

23rd April 2007, 23:57

OK, oh scatological one

I've heard "A-bolts" mentioned.

What are they like compared with the Mauser action - assuming there's a difference (not completely up on all the different actions.)

Mr Merde

24th April 2007, 09:07

OK, oh scatological one

I've heard "A-bolts" mentioned.

What are they like compared with the Mauser action - assuming there's a difference (not completely up on all the different actions.)

Not too up on the differences in bolt actions myself. It will give me something to do today.

Mr :shit:

Mr Merde

24th April 2007, 22:20

Well it has been an interesting day.

A question posed to me by Wolf has been an interesting search

What is an A Bolt rifle.

I've been all over the place abd back and I am confused.

Can I tell you which is the better action? No.

What I can tell you or better still let Wikipaedia tell you is what an A bolt is

"
The A-Bolt rifle is a bolt-action rifle, it uses a non-rotating bolt sleeve. When the bolt is unlocked, smoothness is achieved with three guide ribs aligned with three locking lugs, enabling precise movement. These three locking lugs also largely increase bolt strength. The bolt's smoothness is also increased with a unique cartridge depressor (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cartridge_depressor&action=edit), the cartridge depressor stays in place independent of the bolt's position. Near the end of the reloading cycle, when the bolt is re-inserted, the bolt moves gently over the cartridges in the magazine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magazine). The barrel is free-floating and the recoil lug is glass bedded.
The A-Bolt rifle uses a detachable box magazine. Magazine capacity depends on caliber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliber) and is as follows - Magnum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnum), Winchester Short Magnum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winchester_Short_Magnum) calibers: One in chamber, three in magazine. Standard calibers: One in chamber, four in magazine. .223 Remington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington): One in chamber, five in magazine."

They seem very popular and from what I have read they are very accurate.

Got me thinking about trying one.

Browning make them and a lot of dealers in the US carry them.

There seems to be a lot of custom rifle makers using this action.

Anyone out there tried one?

Please if you have then post your thoughts on this action.

Mr :shit:

Mr Merde

29th April 2007, 21:45

OK,

I treated myself to the May/June copy of

"New Zealand Guns & Hunting"

As I dont get thismagazine too often I devour every page.

On page 87 is the Sporting Shooters Assn. (SSANZ) newsletter for May/June.

Very interesting read. I will quote the opening few paragraphs.

" ONE Law for all- a self defence tribunal is needed"

"The Police Complaints Authority has recently ruled that the shooting of a machete armed man,three times, was the only option, when officers were threatened while attempting to seize a radio following complaints of loud music at a North Shore address in 2004.

If thats the case, then surely the shooting in self defence of a machete armed robber at an Auckland gun shop (who was shot and disabled with just one shot rather than the three the police needed to achieve the same result) was even more justified.

Even if we ignore the vexing question of how it was that an untrained civilian was able to do with just one shot what a "trained" police officer needed three shots to achieve, there is no doubt this Police Complaints Authority finding makes the decision of police heirarchy to subsequently press firearms charges against the Auckland gun shop owner even more illogical. It will certainly help swell the numbers of those who believe that the police policy increasingly favours criminals, and that the gun shop charges are an abuse of the legal process."

It further continues further on

"... The regularity with which police do prosecute those who defend themselves, makes it clear that vthey believe the police have a greater right to self defence than the ordinary citizen, and that they do not care how much emotional trauma, family stress and unnecessary legal costs they impose on innocent victims of violent crime"

The article goes on to make a call for a tribunal dealing wih self defence cases for civilians and police alike.

I personally find it reprehensible that they are procecuting a man for doing exactly what one of their officers did. That officer was found in favour of and probably given councelling etc. A civillian does exactlly the same thing but better and they thow the book at him.

Hypocracy is too small a word for it. It just goes to show the duplicity we have in this country. One law for the powers and another law for us the plebicite.

I know this has been discussed at length on this site but reading this article just got me thinking. We havent heard anything of Greg for a while and the news agencies havent picked up on this at all or at least didnt think it worthy enough to mention.

Another inrode into our basic human rights is being flouted.

Mr :shit:

The Pastor

30th April 2007, 10:46

I thought the reason he was taken to court was that the police want a law change (for or against self defence im not sure) and a good way to get a law change is some major case studys on previous cases. They might be wanting this case for evidence when a cop shoots an attacker in the same situation....

I very much doubt the police are out to "get" this guy, as he is, in the grand skeem of things, a small fish in a large pond.

I could be full of shit though.

Midnight Special

8th May 2007, 22:57

one Sarangheti shotgon anshultz 22 target rifle anshultz 22 bunny gun and a Tekka 308 for the big stuff and a couple of old 22 s i was given . love target shooting and hunting !

scumdog

8th May 2007, 23:01

one Sarangheti shotgon anshultz 22 target rifle anshultz 22 bunny gun and a Tekka 308 for the big stuff and a couple of old 22 s i was given . love target shooting and hunting !

Is your Tikka one of those early ones with a 4-shot removable mag?
Had a few hunting mates with them - they got 10 shot mags for them (there was a lot more hunting done back then - more animals too) and the mags stuck waaaay out!

Midnight Special

9th May 2007, 14:05

4 shot mag havnt really had the need for a 10 shot great for wallaby and goat stops them quick not so great if you want the skin though havnt managed to get a deer heard them seen signs of them in the blue mountains but havnt had a shot at one yet . and i do shoot to eat ! wallaby great with baked beans boiled up on the camp site LOL goat is just like lamb as long as its a young one not an old stinky billy goat LOL. just added that before i get called a poor defencless animal killer !

Mr Merde

10th May 2007, 09:28

I've been very quiet lately.

Moved house last weekend and still going through all the up heaval that goes with such a deed.

Took a couple of hours off last Sunday and walked the hills, with my .22 rifle. Spotted a wild peacock and followed that for about 1 hour. The walk was very pleasant although my calves and thighs complained a bit.

On the walk I spotted a flock of wild turkeys (about 10 of them). 1/2 an hour later I was within 30 meters of this flock.

Result of the walk is that I now have two turkeys hanging in my garage. Into the freezer tonight.

Never having hunted these animals before I never realised how nasty they are to each other. The first one I shot they all attacked when they realised it was injured. Took me two shots I am sorry to reprt and that bird suffered
the others in its flock beating the shit out of it.

Second bird dropped to the one shot into the head.

Bloody heavy things to carry. Had a 1/2 hour walk to get back to the house. My arms were knackered.

Last weekend I heard gunfire in the valley in the morning and the late evening, duh stupid me forgot that the duck season has started.

Anyway my little 2 acres has put me exactly where I wanted. In rhapsody.

Got to talk to the local farmer as there is a 30 ft cliff in one of his fields and about 100m away is a perfect firing platform by way of a rock outcropping. Need to get permission to use this for target practice.

Mr :shit:

Swoop

10th May 2007, 11:41

That sounds like a nice little spot you have aquired Mr Merde!

Peahens are not good eating but the cocks feathers can be valuable. I guess you have learnt the lesson on carrying game!:rofl:

Mr Merde

10th May 2007, 11:54

That sounds like a nice little spot you have aquired Mr Merde!

Peahens are not good eating but the cocks feathers can be valuable. I guess you have learnt the lesson on carrying game!:rofl:

Turkeys are good eating though.

Next time only one per hunt.

Havent seen the pheasants lately but they are there.

Tis a nice spot and I am hoping to make it a better one. If the farmer gives me the go ahead I will have a range of my own to use to improve my shooting and to test my reloads.

Swoop

10th May 2007, 16:41

Tis a nice spot and I am hoping to make it a better one.
You should plant a crop of carrots... to attract the rabbits of course!:whistle:

Midnight Special

10th May 2007, 23:03

[QUOTE=Mr Merde;1049088]I've been very quiet lately.

Moved house last weekend and still going through all the up heaval that goes with such a deed.

Took a couple of hours off last Sunday and walked the hills, with my .22 rifle. Spotted a wild peacock and followed that for about 1 hour. The walk was very pleasant although my calves and thighs complained a bit.

On the walk I spotted a flock of wild turkeys (about 10 of them). 1/2 an hour later I was within 30 meters of this flock.

Result of the walk is that I now have two turkeys hanging in my garage. Into the freezer tonight.

Never having hunted these animals before I never realised how nasty they are to each other. The first one I shot they all attacked when they realised it was injured. Took me two shots I am sorry to reprt and that bird suffered
the others in its flock beating the shit out of it.

Second bird dropped to the one shot into the head.

Just wondering i was at Moa Creek hunting goats with the gun club and we came across some wild turkey but i was told we couldent shoot them they had to have their throats cut so we had to dive on them catch them and cut their throats is that because the meat taints if shot ? i dont know but they were bloody good eating after the pain of plucking them !!

Swoop

11th May 2007, 13:35

i was told we couldent shoot them they had to have their throats cut so we had to dive on them catch them and cut their throats is that because the meat taints if shot ? i dont know but they were bloody good eating after the pain of plucking them !!
Easy way is to just spotlight the buggers at night. They like to sleep on the top of fenceposts, so just tap them on the shoulder to get the head upright and lop it off with a machete.

As the saying goes "Wake up. Time to die!". (Cannot remember the movie name for that line. Bladerunner?)
Or... "YOU! Get into my belly!!! Fat Bastard - Goldmember.

beyond

18th May 2007, 18:56

Yeah, Turkeys like roosting on gates too and if you are lucky you can three heads with a machete. Turkey for your whole tribe plus they get to bleed out quick :)

Now, you guys who got wild Turkey. Have the ticks bitten hunks out of them, if so what do you do to pretty them up for the table without them looking like a magpies had a good session before you got to it?

They are horrible things to gut and pluck though :(

beyond

18th May 2007, 18:56

Oh yeah, where did you hang them and how long for?

You know you only shoot Turkeys to eat in any month without an R in it.

Swoop

18th May 2007, 19:53

Oh yeah, where did you hang them and how long for?

You know you only shoot Turkeys to eat in any month without an R in it.

I can supply the recipe for Pukeko if you would like?

beyond

18th May 2007, 20:34

I can supply the recipe for Pukeko if you would like?

Thanks mate but I think I know that recipe.
Toss the Pukeko in a pot with an old boot. Bring to the boil and simmer for ten hours, then throw away the Pukeko and eat the boot? :)

Swoop

18th May 2007, 20:50

Thanks mate but I think I know that recipe.
Toss the Pukeko in a pot with an old boot. Bring to the boil and simmer for ten hours, then throw away the Pukeko and eat the boot? :)
Almost... A river stone is the secret ingredient!:shit:

Sniper

18th May 2007, 21:02

Hmmm, just spent last weekend in Blenheim.

Now have a freezer full of Duck, rabbit and pig.

beyond

18th May 2007, 21:04

Hmmm, just spent last weekend in Blenheim.

Now have a freezer full of Duck, rabbit and pig.

Ya lucky bugga! :)

Wanna move up here so I can have some wild pork and crackle? :)

beyond

18th May 2007, 21:06

Last year I sold my remington 260, rather traded it in on a new Stainless Tikka 22-250 I love my shooting but have been so busy riding over the last year that I have never sighted it in or even put a round through it. How bad is that.

I've heard the 22-250 goes off with a crack nearly as loud as a .270??

Sniper

18th May 2007, 21:08

Ya lucky bugga! :)

Wanna move up here so I can have some wild pork and crackle? :)

Anytime Im up there mate (which could be a while away) But if you are ever down here, yell out.

beyond

18th May 2007, 21:15

Sniper

18th May 2007, 21:23

Thanks mate I will. Love long distance shooting and working out trajectories, windage and elevation. It's a real science.

I took out a goat at 450 metres with my .270 once shotting uphill. My mate reckoned I would never plug it. Dropped it while it was walking. had to aim quite high above it though and worked the trajectory out from the bullet drop on the packet :)

A couple of years back used to possum shoot three or four nights a week. Kept computer records so I could tell the farmers it wasn't me if they blamed someone for shooting stock. Shot well over 50,000 of the buggers and wore out three .22's :)

Well done. Hell of a shot when shooting up hill and baseing your theory on a packet :) Mind you, Im not a reload person, although I have tried, I never got it right.

I can't honestly say what a 22 250 sounds like mate, but I know a .270 can put one hell of a hole in feral cats :p
If you are ever down here mate, I have a couple of spots with pig problems. Same goes for anyone else I trust behind a rifle

beyond

18th May 2007, 21:30

Well done. Hell of a shot when shooting up hill and baseing your theory on a packet :) Mind you, Im not a reload person, although I have tried, I never got it right.

I can't honestly say what a 22 250 sounds like mate, but I know a .270 can put one hell of a hole in feral cats :p
If you are ever down here mate, I have a couple of spots with pig problems. Same goes for anyone else I trust behind a rifle

Makes me wanna pack up and come down straight away. I have always loved shooting. Feral cats are cool to shoot. Possums don't look too hot after you hit them with a .270 round either especially when you shoot them from the ground and they are sitting on top of a branch. That's certianly a time to run before the cat meat comes down. LOL

Sniper

18th May 2007, 21:37

Makes me wanna pack up and come down straight away. I have always loved shooting. Feral cats are cool to shoot. Possums don't look too hot after you hit them with a .270 round either especially when you shoot them from the ground and they are sitting on top of a branch. That's certianly a time to run before the cat meat comes down. LOL

Lol, yea, I remember shooting feral cats and rabbits with my .308. I was told I nees psyciatric help as I always burst out laughing when I hit them.

Yea I've just recently got into hunting again in NZ. I used to do a bit with Dad back in SA, but I never really had folk who wanted to take me hunting. Something about a South African kid who burst out laughing whemn shooting small creatures with large calibure weapons unsettle them.

You got blocks up there to shooot?

beyond

18th May 2007, 21:42

Yeah, I got onto quite a few farms at one stage. large blocks with goat, possum and rabbit problems. Ended up having the Council get me onto properties as I used to hunt a lot to get fit.

BUT: a large block up here is a farmlet comapred to the blocks you have down there. Used to stay on a farm in Otago when I was a kid over summer hols. Called Isla Downs just after Dunback and before the Pigroot. Was a big 35,000 acre sheep station. Now that's a block :)

Loved those times. Used to know people on the Rock and Pillar range too. A mate of mine used to hunt rabbits along the Waimak near you.

Sniper

18th May 2007, 21:45

pritch

21st May 2007, 21:45

Something about a South African kid who burst out laughing whemn shooting small creatures with large calibure weapons unsettle them.

Them too?:innocent:

Spoke to a young guy once who had a .458WM.
I asked him what he did with it.
His mum replied, "He scares the birds in the orchard."
I'd bet he did! :gob:

Swoop

22nd May 2007, 11:02

His mum replied, "He scares the birds in the orchard."
I'd bet he did! :gob:
I'm guessing that the orchard was quite some distance away...:yes: :rockon:

pritch

22nd May 2007, 15:30

I'm guessing that the orchard was quite some distance away...:yes: :rockon:

Not as far as you'd expect, but there was a hill between the trees and house.
Even so...

Sniper

22nd May 2007, 18:37

Not as far as you'd expect, but there was a hill between the trees and house.
Even so...

As long as it wasnt a mountain, he should be OK :p

Sniper

27th May 2007, 09:19

If I buy this, who can help me make one? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-101330750.htm. Owning a manufactured one cant be as fun as firing one you made yourself.

Sniper

27th May 2007, 17:40

Im wanting to import one of these http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=101049608 as they are a fraction of the price in the US to buying one here.

Before I rock up to the cop shop and bug them, has anyone had any experience or any information in importing firearms? I have been onto the police website and confirmed that these are allowed to be imported into New Zealand. Next thing is how I go about it because the net isnt very helpful

S

Drunken Monkey

28th May 2007, 11:57

Theres quite a few ways in which suppress a firearms, I remember I watched a CSI a while ago and some joker used a potato of all things to silence a shot, im not sure about how effective it was though (he got caught in the end). Ive heard of the coke bottle technique although I havent used it. Just looking on google for way im which silence a firearm it came up with several thousand ways to do so, one of these ways was the above bottle method which seems to be popular in the states as silencers/suppressors are banned over there.

Well, I gave the PET Bottle silencer a test on the weekend in between killing goats and cans, and I'd have to say it doesn't work very well, but it does work.

Test equipment:
Gun = Stirling 20P Semi-Automatic .22LR
Ammo = Remington "22 Golden", .22LR High Velocity
Silencer = 1.5Litre ginger-ale PET container

After doing some research, there seemed to be 2 schools of thought.
1 - Hole in the bottom to allow the bullet to fly out unhindered, letting the bottle reduce the velocity of escaping gas.

2 - No hole, 'single shot' silencer, bullet punches it's way out.

Well, the latter sounded too dangerous and a little pointless for practical day-to-day application (i.e. bunny shooting)

The PET bottle does reduce the crack a little bit. It's more noticable in an enclosed space, there is noticably less echo, although the apparent volume is not much less at all. I doubt even with a bolt action and sub-sonic ammo the PET bottle silencer would reduce your shooting volume significantly.

Some sort of dB metering equipment would've been nice, the old earometer isn't so flash at distinguising noise from outright volume.

Wolf

28th May 2007, 13:19

Mr Merde

28th May 2007, 13:42

When I took apart my moderator for cleaning, I noted that its construction involved a number of metal "washers" separated by fairly light springs, The washers act as baffles to slow the gasses and I suspect that being separated by springs would allow them to move with the gas and act somewhat more like a shock absorber to be more efficient at robbing the gas of velocity (as well as prevent the screw thread from taking the full brunt of gasses slamming into fixed baffles/washers)

I've heard of some moderators using fibreglas wool or similar to aid in robbing the gasses of velocity.

If you look at the really good suppressors you will find that they make extensive use of expansion chambers and bleed off holes through the various baffles. This is until the last chamber where the resultant gasses escape through the same orrifice as the bullet exits.

Those "silencers" with baffles and springs are pretty basic and do a moderate job of suppressing the noise.

Yes there have been cases of material bein gused as a packing and it does work to some extent. I have tried this with a coke can filled with tissue paper and using sub sonic .22 ammo this was quite a silent. The bullet made its own exit hole from the end of the can. Yhe whole unit only lasted a few rounds but it worked.

Using a sub sonic round always helps.

Sniper

28th May 2007, 13:58

I wont use a .22 without a moderator after fitting one to mine. Thats my 2c

Mr Merde

28th May 2007, 14:09

I wont use a .22 without a moderator after fitting one to mine. Thats my 2c

A good 2c worth. Suppressors\silencers\gentlemans accessories are well worth the purchase and use. Especially if one values their hearing.

Sniper

28th May 2007, 14:24

A good 2c worth. Suppressors\silencers\gentlemans accessories are well worth the purchase and use. Especially if one values their hearing.

Not just hearing, but the advantage you have over your prey is pretty good. I used to go out on the in laws farm and get maybe 2 or 3 bunnies before they dissapered. Now I rarely come home with less than 10.

Ive used a moderator on a couple or larger caliber weapons before, but never in a hunting scene. Would love to know the advantages (if any) considering you are usually only shooting 1 or 2 animals.

Drunken Monkey

28th May 2007, 14:26

... Especially if one values their hearing.

Hmmm, I see what you mean, but think of the implications of your logic...

Mr Merde

28th May 2007, 14:46

Hmmm, I see what you mean, but think of the implications of your logic...

In the UK you used to have to approach the police and get a special addition to your FAC (firearms cert) for a suppressor. One enterprising gentleman about 10 years ago approached them and was refused. He then approached Environmental Health (OSH) and put it on their door. EH told the police that they were perfectly entitled to refuse to allow suppressors but if anyone lost their hearing due to it then the police force was liable for full damages.

Ever since then the police offer free suppressor additions to FAC's.

Mr Merde

28th May 2007, 14:50

.... Would love to know the advantages (if any) considering you are usually only shooting 1 or 2 animals.

From what I have read, the use of a suppressor on a fullbore rifle with supersonic ammo doesnt so much as silence the round but muffle its signature making it harder to pinpoint from which direction the shot came.

In a hunting situation this may lead to the animals being unable to tell in which direction the threat came from and therefore not react to it. The hunter then may be able to get off a few more shots before there is general panic and a scattering in every direction.

Sniper

28th May 2007, 15:26

From what I have read, the use of a suppressor on a fullbore rifle with supersonic ammo doesnt so much as silence the round but muffle its signature making it harder to pinpoint from which direction the shot came.

In a hunting situation this may lead to the animals being unable to tell in which direction the threat came from and therefore not react to it. The hunter then may be able to get off a few more shots before there is general panic and a scattering in every direction.

Ok.

I think somewhere in this thread I said something similar. Shows how my memory is. Its the same theory in a situation when you are in urban warfare. The advantages of a silencer can save your life (apparently)

Mr Merde

28th May 2007, 15:43

Ok.

I think somewhere in this thread I said something similar. Shows how my memory is. Its the same theory in a situation when you are in urban warfare. The advantages of a silencer can save your life (apparently)

I think you did somewhere. This thread is rather large now.

Swoop

28th May 2007, 15:45

Before I rock up to the cop shop and bug them, has anyone had any experience or any information in importing firearms? I have been onto the police website and confirmed that these are allowed to be imported into New Zealand. Next thing is how I go about it because the net isnt very helpful

If it is on the "approved" list (A-cat, etc) no problems. Just wander down and visit your local Arms Officer and have a chat.
When/if approved, the import permit will need to be given to customs who will then (& only then) allow it past the border into your waiting hands.

Export permit from the US might be fun if it comes from there - or even if it travels in their airspace!!!

Keep a photocopy of all documents!!!!!.....

Sniper

28th May 2007, 15:46

If it is on the "approved" list (A-cat, etc) no problems. Just wander down and visit your local Arms Officer and have a chat.
When/if approved, the import permit will need to be given to customs who will then (& only then) allow it past the border into your waiting hands.

Export permit from the US might be fun if it comes from there - or even if it travels in their airspace!!!

Keep a photocopy of all documents!!!!!.....

Cheers mate. Exactly what Im after.

Anyone else interested in them? I might be able to get a deal from the supplier

S

Mr Merde

28th May 2007, 15:49

Cheers mate. Exactly what Im after.

Anyone else interested in them? I might be able to get a deal from the supplier

S

You may have a little trouble. I know that Reloaders Supplies here in Auckland sell these rifles.

I'm not sure who the official importers of Walthers are but they may have a sole agency type deal.

Would be interested if the price were right.

Swoop

28th May 2007, 15:50

Cheers mate. Exactly what Im after.

Anyone else interested in them? I might be able to get a deal from the supplier
They had a good review in NZ guns a short while back.
Not my cup of tea though.

Sniper

28th May 2007, 15:52

You may have a little trouble. I know that Reloaders Supplies here in Auckland sell these rifles.

I'm not sure who the official importers of Walthers are but they may have a sole agency type deal.

Would be interested if the price were right.

Guncity import them too. But Im not paying anyone $1000 to $1200 for one of these when I can get it from the manufacturer for (At this stage) $420 incl shipping

I'll see what the story is though, thanks for all the info guys

Sniper

28th May 2007, 15:53

They had a good review in NZ guns a short while back.
Not my cup of tea though.

Yea, bit of a funky rifle.

Going to head into Gun city later and check one out to see how it feels. Wont buy one unless I like it

beyond

29th May 2007, 21:52

Well, I gave the PET Bottle silencer a test on the weekend in between killing goats and cans, and I'd have to say it doesn't work very well, but it does work.

Test equipment:
Gun = Stirling 20P Semi-Automatic .22LR
Ammo = Remington "22 Golden", .22LR High Velocity
Silencer = 1.5Litre ginger-ale PET container

After doing some research, there seemed to be 2 schools of thought.
1 - Hole in the bottom to allow the bullet to fly out unhindered, letting the bottle reduce the velocity of escaping gas.

2 - No hole, 'single shot' silencer, bullet punches it's way out.

Well, the latter sounded too dangerous and a little pointless for practical day-to-day application (i.e. bunny shooting)

The PET bottle does reduce the crack a little bit. It's more noticable in an enclosed space, there is noticably less echo, although the apparent volume is not much less at all. I doubt even with a bolt action and sub-sonic ammo the PET bottle silencer would reduce your shooting volume significantly.

Some sort of dB metering equipment would've been nice, the old earometer isn't so flash at distinguising noise from outright volume.

Errmmm, to get the most out of a .22 with silencer of any sort is to use subsonic ammo. The crack is the bullet breaking the sound barrier and no sillencer no matter how big is going to stop that noise. The discharge noise is silenced but the bullet breaks the sound barrier soon after leaving the barrel which makes most your noise.

Once you have a silencer fitted, sight your rifle in with subsonic ammo and you will cut almost all the noise down. In fact, when shooting furry cuddlies with subsonic ammo and silencer the bullet hitting the cuddly is the loudest noise. Bit like someone taking to a soft pillow with a hunk of 4 by 2 .

scumdog

30th May 2007, 00:42

Wolf

30th May 2007, 13:09

Errmmm, to get the most out of a .22 with silencer of any sort is to use subsonic ammo. The crack is the bullet breaking the sound barrier and no sillencer no matter how big is going to stop that noise. The discharge noise is silenced but the bullet breaks the sound barrier soon after leaving the barrel which makes most your noise.
I did a few test shots with standard .22lr ammo through the silencer (one of those crappy spring and washer jobs) and it was a definite improvement but still fairly loud - good for seeing how much is escaping gas and how much is travel noise.

Fired a few subsonics through it and the sound could be described as "an apologetic cough". Definite improvement over the "sonic boom" (crack) of the standard round.

This was on a bolt action so the gasses had no choice but to pass through the silencer. Never had a silencer fitted to a semi-auto but I doubt it would be particularly effective on a straight blow-back .22, what with the amount of gasses exiting via the ejector port and the noise of the action itself. I can understand the use of a silencer on a locked-breach semi-auto as the gasses have pretty much exited by the time the breech unlocks to eject the casing.

scumdog

30th May 2007, 22:24

I
This was on a bolt action so the gasses had no choice but to pass through the silencer. Never had a silencer fitted to a semi-auto but I doubt it would be particularly effective on a straight blow-back .22, what with the amount of gasses exiting via the ejector port and the noise of the action itself. I can understand the use of a silencer on a locked-breach semi-auto as the gasses have pretty much exited by the time the breech unlocks to eject the casing.

I've got about three or four (whose counting?) of my 22s with silencers, one is a Gevarm take-down with a shortened barrel, it's a 'straight blow-back' system firing from an open breech. (has no firing pin, ejector or extractor on the bolt either - figure THAT one out!)

The silencer works great on it, the noise is like a slug-gun but without the sharp 'splat' noise.

Wolf

31st May 2007, 08:12

The silencer works great on it, the noise is like a slug-gun but without the sharp 'splat' noise.
Hmmmmm, learn something new every day. I stand corrected.

Mr Merde

31st May 2007, 11:13

Im off to blow away a ton of rounds through a glock and m4 next month. :first: got to get those groupings tight!

You lucky man. I would spend all day loading and shooting if I were able.

M4 ?? What firearm is this. My brain is suffering this morning. As I get older I find, that with a brain that has a limited capacity, I need reminders of what things mean.

I take it you are on your firearms training course or a refresher then.

Mr Merde

31st May 2007, 11:46

:shit:
The M4 is the standard Police firearm.

Here's some pics of it, obviously ours doesnt come with the grenade launcher or the scope in the range pic.

I had a feeling this was the answer but as said I am not the sharpest pencil this morning.

Push for rubber bullets. Can use the grenade launcher then :dodge:

Mr :shit:

scumdog

31st May 2007, 11:52

Im off to blow away a ton of rounds through a glock and m4 next month. :first: got to get those groupings tight!

Yup, fun-fun-fun!!

AND getting paid to have it too!:Punk:

PS I've noticed the Bushmaster suits my left-handed better than it does the right-handed types - mag release, bolt release etc, even the safety is great for a lefty.

scumdog

31st May 2007, 12:12

Yeah that the dum thing about it us righties have to reach over and hit the forward assist after cocking. Sorta makes a bit of a pain if you need to reload in a hurry!

Stricly speaking if the Bushamster is kept clean the forward assist is merely a decoration - it's a legacy from the Vietnam war when uncleaned/uncared for M16s failed to chamber rounds at times and the f.a. was added as a 'band-aid' fix.

Mr Merde

31st May 2007, 12:22

Interesting posts.

My old man was a leftie and when he went to Vietnam he was issued with an M16.

He couldnt use it so he reverted back to an SLR.

He found it uncomfortable for him to use and the empty cases had this habit of ejecting into the right side of his face. Just a little uncomfortable when it is hot brass.

He had a similar problem with his side arm. A 9 mm Browning.

He found that the recoil\twist of the pistol rather than pushing into his plam, pushed against his fingers.

May have been that he was just an awkward old bugger (he was 16 years younger than I am now when he was there).

Bend-it

31st May 2007, 12:24

Yeah, lefties used to be issued a brass deflector to keep the hot brass out of their faces when I was in the army (Singapore).

scumdog

31st May 2007, 12:26

Yeah, lefties used to be issued a brass deflector to keep the hot brass out of their faces when I was in the army (Singapore).

The Bushmaster has a 'lump' cast into the reciever for that very purpose, never had a problem with brass hitting me..

Bend-it

31st May 2007, 12:28

Ahhh... we were still using Vietnam era M16A1s back then... :)

Wolf

31st May 2007, 12:29

Stricly speaking if the Bushamster is kept clean the forward assist is merely a decoration - it's a legacy from the Vietnam war when uncleaned/uncared for M16s failed to chamber rounds at times and the f.a. was added as a 'band-aid' fix.
Heh, that was due to "requires minimal cleaning and maintenance" was hyped as "never needs cleaning and maintenance" and no one bothered looking after their weapons. The US Army had to release a booklet on maintenance PDQ and get it out to the troops.

And WTF is a bus hamster? :devil2:

like I never transpose letters...

Bend-it

31st May 2007, 12:31

Minimal?!?! I wouldn't call the required cleaning for an AR anything close to "minimal"... An SKS... Now that's a gun that requires minimal cleaning and goes bang everytime! I luurrve my SKS's... :)

Wolf

31st May 2007, 12:35

Minimal?!?! I wouldn't call the required cleaning for an AR anything close to "minimal"... An SKS... Now that's a gun that requires minimal cleaning and goes bang everytime! I luurrve my SKS's... :)
From what I read, they reckoned it only required minimal cleaning. Never owned a snap-happy lincoln toy so I wouldn't know.

Can't disagree on the SKS, beautiful weapon.

Sniper

31st May 2007, 17:09

Had a play with a G22 today. Lovely weapon, not too sure on practicality of it other than style. But guess whats going to be arriving at my door in a few months time :devil2:

Wolf

31st May 2007, 17:11

Had a play with a G22 today. Lovely weapon, not too sure on practicality of it other than style. But guess whats going to be arriving at my door in a few months time :devil2:
Congrats! Importing one, I gather.

Sniper

31st May 2007, 17:18

Congrats! Importing one, I gather.

Yup. Would have bought it there an them because they told me they could have done a deal a deal which would have been only $100 more including scope, but they only had left handed ones :p

Also it was the choice of between this on a Ruger 10/22 with a fully surpressed barrell, but this has style :p

Wolf

31st May 2007, 17:28

Yup. Would have bought it there an them because they told me they could have done a deal a deal which would have been only $100 more including scope, but they only had left handed ones :p

Also it was the choice of between this on a Ruger 10/22 with a fully surpressed barrell, but this has style :p
Enjoy! I'll have to see if any of the gun dealers hereabouts stock them and have a closer look.

Sniper

31st May 2007, 17:34

Wolf

31st May 2007, 17:49

Yea, not sure how they shoot though.

They looked nulky and uncomfortable, but in the shoulder they feel great. Personal preference though but if you are ever down this way, I would be happy if you wanted to test fire one :p

S

S
Already told SDU in another thread - I doubt my little bike has enough grunt to jump the straight even with a "run-up" from Hamilton to Wellington...

Sniper

31st May 2007, 18:01

Already told SDU in another thread - I doubt my little bike has enough grunt to jump the straight even with a "run-up" from Hamilton to Wellington...

Lol. Fairy nuff. I;ll have to come do a north island shoot then. I wonder how many rifles Im allowed to carry on the boat :p

S

scumdog

31st May 2007, 18:02

From what I read, they reckoned it only required minimal cleaning. Never owned a snap-happy lincoln toy so I wouldn't know.

Can't disagree on the SKS, beautiful weapon.

'Lincoln' toy it may be but the M16 shoots rings around the SKS when it comes to fast accurate follow-up shots.:yes:

I've used both, still have an SKS.

Wolf

31st May 2007, 21:03

'Lincoln' toy it may be but the M16 shoots rings around the SKS when it comes to fast accurate follow-up shots.:yes:
Heh heh. And I didn't even have to make remarks about Harleys...

:devil2:

I found the M16 I held to be too light - didn't feel "substantial" enough. Odd, as being light it would be less hassle to lug around the bush, but I prefer a heavier rifle (just not as heavy as my old Mosin-Nagant or a fully-wooded SMLE)

What's the recoil like, given how light it is?

Mr Merde

1st June 2007, 08:46

Lol. Fairy nuff. I;ll have to come do a north island shoot then. I wonder how many rifles Im allowed to carry on the boat :p

S

One of my shooting buddies carried our long guns down to a shoot in Hokitika last year while we flew. In his van he carried he had 6 shotguns and 10 rifles plus ammo for all plus the ammo for 10 pistols.

A driving armoury. Heaven help him trying to explain them all if he had of been involved in a motorr accident.

Mr Merde

1st June 2007, 08:48

Enjoy! I'll have to see if any of the gun dealers hereabouts stock them and have a closer look.

Reloaders Supplies in Onehunga have them listed in their catologue.

Sniper

1st June 2007, 09:33

One of my shooting buddies carried our long guns down to a shoot in Hokitika last year while we flew. In his van he carried he had 6 shotguns and 10 rifles plus ammo for all plus the ammo for 10 pistols.

A driving armoury. Heaven help him trying to explain them all if he had of been involved in a motorr accident.

Hells bells. Imagine trying to explain to the police if he got pulled up? Did you know a chap by the name Steve Dodson?

EDIT: Post 666 :devil2:

Mr Merde

1st June 2007, 09:42

.... Did you know a chap by the name Steve Dodson?

....

I dont know why but the name is familiar to me.

I'm 50 y o now and everything in my past is getting a little hazy.

Once when a member of Cardiff Shooting Centre one of our members was pulled by the police on the motorway. He had just been to a club shoot at the army range in Caldicot.

When asked what he had in the boot of his car he answered quite truthfully

" Guns and drugs"

Apparently the young cop shit himself until he found out that this person had been on a club shoot and was actually a doctor on call so he had his medical bag with him (full of 'drugs').

Sniper

1st June 2007, 10:08

I dont know why but the name is familiar to me.

I'm 50 y o now and everything in my past is getting a little hazy.

Steve (also known by Stevo on the site) used to be one of Marlboroughs top shooters and was down in Hokitika last year. Road there on his CBR with the rifle strapped to the side.

Mr Merde

1st June 2007, 10:18

No I dont know him. Sounds like my sort of person though.

Wolf

1st June 2007, 10:41

EDIT: Post 666 :devil2:
Well, according to the anti-gun bubble-heads, this is an appropriate thread for it :D

ManDownUnder

4th June 2007, 08:40

My ideal .22

stainless
tube feed (15 rounds please)
Bolt Action
Reasonable quality... ruger, marlin and the like.

I see Marlin do not do one, does anyone know of someone that actually DOES?

Sniper

4th June 2007, 09:22

Its going to be hard to find a tube fed rifle in stainless. I think they have stopped making them.

Have you tried looking for a Marlin with a flush mounted mag?

billyvan

4th June 2007, 12:06

For something a little different, but involving the MSSA.

Me on the right.
<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f238/billyvan/Classic%20Fighters%202007/IMGP3684.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

Sniper

4th June 2007, 12:24

For something a little different, but involving the MSSA.

Me on the right.

Woodbourne???

Drunken Monkey

4th June 2007, 13:43

For something a little different, but involving the MSSA.

Me on the right.

Dude, how old is that photo?

billyvan

4th June 2007, 15:45

Woodbourne???

Omaka

Dude, how old is that photo?

Photo was taken at Easter 2007.

Sniper

4th June 2007, 15:47

Omaka

So technically Woodbourne :p

billyvan

4th June 2007, 15:54

So technically Woodbourne :p

Yip! But they're a bit funny about running round with guns on the airfield at Woodbourne. :yes:

Sniper

4th June 2007, 15:57

Yip! But they're a bit funny about running round with guns on the airfield at Woodbourne. :yes:

Tis true. Although when I practised with the TF, we got away with it. Was great fun doing ambush drills as a civvie plane landed.

Drunken Monkey

4th June 2007, 16:44

Photo was taken at Easter 2007.

It looks so retro, but the image quality was quite high.

Swoop

4th June 2007, 16:45

Heh, that was due to "requires minimal cleaning and maintenance" was hyped as "never needs cleaning and maintenance" and no one bothered looking after their weapons. The US Army had to release a booklet on maintenance PDQ and get it out to the troops.
An account that I read a little while ago, said that cleaning had nothing to do with the issue. The unit, in which the books' author was based, had methodical and pedantic cleaning regimes in place, yet the rifles still failed.
GI's being found dead with a cleaning rod down the barrel, frantically trying to clear barrel and action.
The author states that there was a general inspection of all rifles by the manufacturers in the field.
Each grunt stepped forward from a long line, and presented his rifle. The manufacturers checked certain things and most of the unit were given new rifles.
Someone grabbed a newly issued rifle and threw it in the dust to dirty it up a bit, then handed it to a trooper for his inspection. The [new] rifle was failed and another issued!

Should have stuck with the M-14.

scumdog

5th June 2007, 08:53

An account that I read a little while ago, said that cleaning had nothing to do with the issue. The unit, in which the books' author was based, had methodical and pedantic cleaning regimes in place, yet the rifles still failed.
GI's being found dead with a cleaning rod down the barrel, frantically trying to clear barrel and action.
The author states that there was a general inspection of all rifles by the manufacturers in the field.
Each grunt stepped forward from a long line, and presented his rifle. The manufacturers checked certain things and most of the unit were given new rifles.
Someone grabbed a newly issued rifle and threw it in the dust to dirty it up a bit, then handed it to a trooper for his inspection. The [new] rifle was failed and another issued!

Should have stuck with the M-14.

The jamming problem arose from powder used in the ammo.

The designer and manufacturer of the weapon specified a type of powder (rod type from memory) but due to a payout to a politician a powder manufacturer who only produced spherical powder got the powder supply contract.

The incorrect type of powder may not seem like a big deal BUT what nobody (except the gun designer etc) realised that the graphite coating on the incorrect ammo caused undue and excessive fouling of the weapon.

There, said it in the shortest way I could!!

(May have crossed over the types of powder, my memory ain't THAT good!)

scumdog

5th June 2007, 09:00

My ideal .22

stainless
tube feed (15 rounds please)
Bolt Action
Reasonable quality... ruger, marlin and the like.

I see Marlin do not do one, does anyone know of someone that actually DOES?

Tube magazine 'con' = too slow to load/unload, hard to check if it IS empty in poor light, old ones end up with a weak magazine spring and can lead to the last bullit 'hanging-up' and not feeding for several cycles of the action so when you rattle the bolt backwards and forwards a couple of times and nothing more comes out you think "aha, it's empty and safe" then next time you work the bolt the last round DOES feed - result? potential disaster, I know of one death locally from exactly that scenario. (Mind you a new rifle is unlikely to have that problem but it is a risk with that type of mag.)

The one 'pro' it does have is that you can't forget to bring it with you!

ManDownUnder

5th June 2007, 14:19

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f238/billyvan/Classic%20Fighters%202007/IMGP3684.jpg (http://photobucket.com)

Woo hoo caption contest!

ok - from the left... "JEEEEEZUS!"
and billyvan "Do that again ya bastard and I'll drop ya!"

Wolf

5th June 2007, 17:29

An account that I read a little while ago, said that cleaning had nothing to do with the issue. The unit, in which the books' author was based, had methodical and pedantic cleaning regimes in place, yet the rifles still failed.
GI's being found dead with a cleaning rod down the barrel, frantically trying to clear barrel and action.
The author states that there was a general inspection of all rifles by the manufacturers in the field.
Each grunt stepped forward from a long line, and presented his rifle. The manufacturers checked certain things and most of the unit were given new rifles.
Someone grabbed a newly issued rifle and threw it in the dust to dirty it up a bit, then handed it to a trooper for his inspection. The [new] rifle was failed and another issued!

Should have stuck with the M-14.
I have heard - don't know how true it is - that during the Vietnam War a lot of soldiers ditched the M-16 in favour of an AK-47 at the first available opportunity.

More reliable and you had an endless supply of ammo courtesy of the VC...

Hmmmm, arrive with issued M-16, shoot a VC with it, take AK-47, drop M-16...

Mr Merde

5th June 2007, 20:59

I have heard - don't know how true it is - that during the Vietnam War a lot of soldiers ditched the M-16 in favour of an AK-47 at the first available opportunity.

More reliable and you had an endless supply of ammo courtesy of the VC...

Hmmmm, arrive with issued M-16, shoot a VC with it, take AK-47, drop M-16...

They were after anything they could get.

My old manwas offered a M2 carbine and a jeep for his issue Browning Hi Power. He was willing to swap if he could have worked out how to get them both back into NZ.

Dont know what he swapped in the end but he came home with two large vegemite jars full of saphires (blue and black, star variety). Bought his and mums first home with them.

pritch

7th June 2007, 15:46

I have heard - don't know how true it is - that during the Vietnam War a lot of soldiers ditched the M-16 in favour of an AK-47 at the first available opportunity.

I only saw one idiot, an Australian officer, carry an AK47.

What do you think would happen if an Oz or Kiwi scout glimpsed part of an AK47 through the foliage?

Sniper

8th June 2007, 10:54

Sniper

8th June 2007, 11:14

Anyone seen and had a play with one of these? I wouldnt mind owning one for the sake of it

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Shotguns/auction-103302105.htm

ManDownUnder

8th June 2007, 11:35

Mr MDU sir

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/photos/a-103502975/p-42498801.htm

Yeah cool. Am after LR at this stage to replace the existing one, but found this (http://www.berettausa.com/product/spotlight/spotlight_sako_quad_main.htm) in my search.

1 rimfire, shooting 4 rounds (LR, Mag, .17HMR and Mach II)

Not cheap but then... quality isn't!

Sniper

8th June 2007, 11:36

ManDownUnder

8th June 2007, 11:37

I must own one.....

Did i mention I've just about sold a house...?

...hmmm....

Sniper

8th June 2007, 11:41

Did i mention I've just about sold a house...?

...hmmm....

Im going to be living rent free :D

Mind you, I can imagine how the conversation will go with MissSniper.....
"Honey, I just spent half the wedding money on a rifle..... I love you"

ManDownUnder

8th June 2007, 11:43

Mind you, I can imagine how the conversation will go with MissSniper.....
"Honey, I just spent half the wedding money on a rifle..... I love you"

Blame me... and let's face it - that line to your lovely other half is still better than

"Honey, I just spent half the wedding money on a rifle..... I love it"

Mr Merde

8th June 2007, 11:55

ManDownUnder

8th June 2007, 12:01

I am scheduled to work 30 hours overtime this weekend at 27hrs double time ans 3 hours sinle.

When I told the other half all I got back was

"Good, you can spend the money fixing up your bike and putting a deposit on those new pistols you want."

She is definitely a keeper.

The new pistols are Uberti copies of the 1872 Colt Open Tops in .38 spl with 5" barrels and a pair of 7" barrels as spare. Both pistols have been worked by a gunsmith and have an action like glass on glass.

Don't take this the wrong way but... have her ring me if she's ever single again..!

Actually ring me anyway - I have some stuff here at work you need to collect. Not the least of which is a bucketfull of lead (no - literally!)

Wolf

8th June 2007, 12:26

Yeah cool. Am after LR at this stage to replace the existing one, but found this (http://www.berettausa.com/product/spotlight/spotlight_sako_quad_main.htm) in my search.

1 rimfire, shooting 4 rounds (LR, Mag, .17HMR and Mach II)

Not cheap but then... quality isn't!
Fecking nice!

Mind you, Sako are generally fecking nice.

Next rifle I want is a bolt action .243, preferably Mauser action - a Husqvarna would be nice - but it'll have to wait.

Bikes have taken priority lately (especially since the XT failed its WOF).

ManDownUnder

8th June 2007, 12:36

Fecking nice!

Mind you, Sako are generally fecking nice.

Next rifle I want is a bolt action .243, preferably Mauser action - a Husqvarna would be nice - but it'll have to wait.

Bikes have taken priority lately (especially since the XT failed its WOF).

I have to wonder though... sight in one barrel, replace it for another and ... what happens to the point of impact (even if the barrel did somehow point in EXACTLY the same place... the different ballistics...)

?!?

Mr Merde

8th June 2007, 12:42

I have to wonder though... sight in one barrel, replace it for another and ... what happens to the point of impact (even if the barrel did somehow point in EXACTLY the same place... the different ballistics...)

?!?

I think I know what rifle you are talking about and it comes with a scope that has 4 adjustment rings for each caliber. Change the barrel, dial in the scope and away you go.

Supposedly works very well but the scope is expensive.

scumdog

9th June 2007, 10:33

Fecking nice!

Mind you, Sako are generally fecking nice.

Too true.
Fav. rabbit rifle? My Sako bolt-action 22 with 4X40 Gold Crown
Fav deer etc rifle? My Sako lever-action 308 with 3-9 Redfield.

ManDownUnder

12th June 2007, 12:02

Having invested far too much time on this it's come down to two .22LR rifles. I'm spending money on a lifetime purchase here, so quality, reliability and accuracy all come ahead of $$$.

I'm after a bolt action .22LR in stainless. Both of these fit the bill. The BRNO and Sako both work too but they're nickle plated and over the next 50+ years stainless should outlast them

So - the comparison I'm making (before I have even shouldered either of them)

Ruger 77/22.
Pros
Nice gun. Overengineered, reliable, proven technology, and hard to find a bad word on them.

Cons
Stock (appearance)
Accuracy relative to the Marlin
- I'm told the microgroove (Marlin) is better...?

Marlin 980S.
Pros
Microgroove barrel
Nicer stock... errrm and that's it really...

Cons
General finish and quality of the Marlin is lower than the Ruger. My current (925) has a Magazine than flops around a bit - common enough I understand

Thoughts/comments/experiences?

Ta
MDU

scumdog

12th June 2007, 12:39

Wolf

12th June 2007, 13:08

Unless you plan on hunting on Stewart Island or Fiordland (unlikely with a 22) you don't need stainless, 22's just dont wear out if they're a bolt action of reasonable repute.

My 22 Sako is from the late 50's and still looks fairly new and shoots damn well, one hole about 10mm in diameter at 25 yards for five shots.
Any misses are the shooters fault.:yes:
Got to agree on that score. None of my .22s were quite that old but I found that with regular cleaning the interior of the barrel was as shiny as a new one and if the blueing on the exterior started to show wear it was not a major task to reblue the metal bits (kind of satisfying, too. Got to the point I had "warm fuzzies" from the smell of hot blueing compound - can't beat the satisfying glow of DIY!)

ManDownUnder

12th June 2007, 13:41

Unless you plan on hunting on Stewart Island or Fiordland (unlikely with a 22) you don't need stainless, 22's just dont wear out if they're a bolt action of reasonable repute.

It's bloody Alexandra I'm worried about. It pissed down last time I was there, and I didn't get to clean the .22 soon enough (for my liking)

Time for an upgrade anyway - a treat I promised meself following a house sale so...

It's either Stainless or a Kimber - and I'd cry if I got a Kimber with a rust spot on it...

Swoop

12th June 2007, 15:42

Time for an upgrade anyway - a treat I promised meself following a house sale so...
The correct answer will be "buy both" and then have a play and sell the one you don't like (if there is one!).:yes:

ManDownUnder

12th June 2007, 15:54

The correct answer will be "buy both" and then have a play and sell the one you don't like (if there is one!).:yes:

LOL love that style.

It might come to that with a .22LR and .17HMR yet...

Mr Merde

12th June 2007, 23:03

If it was me I would be going for the Ruger 10/22

They are both fine rifles but the Ruger has bee around a while longer and there are a lot of aftermarket parts that will make it fit better, function better and make it more accurate than the stock item.

I would also go for the rifle version they recently bought out. it has a longer barrell (22 inches as opposed tot he 18 " of the carbine). it also has a free floating barrel. The carbine has a barrel ring that can throw the shot off if the barrel gets hot and pushes against the ring. A fault common with Winchester carbines and their clones.

Also if you are a little daring or manage to get a C cat licence they are a piece of cake to take full auto. All you need to do is make a new trigger unit. It can be done with a few tools and the right plans. Unfortunately these plans are not allowed in NZ in their original form (a Paladin book) but I might know where there is a copy floating around.:nono: :innocent:

Mr :shit:

PS. Couldnt anser your PM as work has been so chaotic over the last 2 days. I'll be in your area this Sunday.

scumdog

14th June 2007, 00:04

Also if you are a little daring or manage to get a C cat licence they are a piece of cake to take full auto. All you need to do is make a new trigger unit. It can be done with a few tools and the right plans. Unfortunately these plans are not allowed in NZ in their original form (a Paladin book) but I might know where there is a copy floating around.:nono: :innocent:

Fun but a waste of bullets.
Could only keep 8 shots out of a 10 shot burst (which I might add took about 1/3rd of a second to fire) on an old washing-machine lid at 15 yards.

1st shot hit the centre and prrrrp! the rest went wherever they felt like.

Mr Merde

14th June 2007, 08:47

Fun but a waste of bullets.
Could only keep 8 shots out of a 10 shot burst (which I might add took about 1/3rd of a second to fire) on an old washing-machine lid at 15 yards.

1st shot hit the centre and prrrrp! the rest went wherever they felt like.

But definitely fun. Only went rock n roll a few times in my shooting history but every time was memorable.

Most vivid wasa the first. M16 on full auto, and the biggest, a .50 BMG mounted on an APC fired at dusk.

Had an AR15 cook off once and dump the contents of the mag. Frightening.

MP5s really good fun, controlled bursts, very quiet.

Mr :shit:

Wolf

14th June 2007, 11:01

Fun but a waste of bullets.
Could only keep 8 shots out of a 10 shot burst (which I might add took about 1/3rd of a second to fire) on an old washing-machine lid at 15 yards.

1st shot hit the centre and prrrrp! the rest went wherever they felt like.
I'm aware of someone who stuck a match stick into a hole in the side of an old Stirling .22semi-auto and achieved a brief farting sound. the muzzle didn't jump about so all the rounds wound up in pretty much the same spot.

Sniper

15th June 2007, 10:02

MP5s really good fun, controlled bursts, very quiet.

Mr :shit:

MP5SD is more fun :devil2:

scumdog

15th June 2007, 10:52

I'm aware of someone who stuck a match stick into a hole in the side of an old Stirling .22semi-auto and achieved a brief farting sound. the muzzle didn't jump about so all the rounds wound up in pretty much the same spot.

Hmm, try that at 50 yards, I'll bet there's a real scattering of holes on the target, even a .22 will jump just from the bolt/breech-block flying back and forwards and even a 2mm movement makes for quite a change in the point of impact.

Maybe one of you slide-rule jockeys can figure out how much change there is in point of impact there is at 50yards (metre?) with a 2mm muzzle jump??

ManDownUnder

15th June 2007, 10:58

Hmm, try that at 50 yards, I'll bet there's a real scattering of holes on the target, even a .22 will jump just from the bolt/breech-block flying back and forwards and even a 2mm movement makes for quite a change in the point of impact.

Maybe one of you slide-rule jockeys can figure out how much change there is in point of impact there is at 50yards (metre?) with a 2mm muzzle jump??

'ow long's the barrel?

oh - rhetorical.

Without all the BS explanation, thats probably going to be around 120 to 150mm

scumdog

15th June 2007, 11:02

'ow long's the barrel?

oh - rhetorical.

Without all the BS explanation, thats probably going to be around 120 to 150mm

And that would just be between two consecutive shots, - let alone mutiple ones.

ManDownUnder

15th June 2007, 11:34

And that would just be between two consecutive shots, - let alone mutiple ones.

not for me it wouldn't (it'd be 500mm+.. at least!)

ManDownUnder

15th June 2007, 11:38

Righto - 'a friend' bought a .17HMR this morning... the one one Tarde me I'm told (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-104601021.htm?p=11)... and they asked me to ask what the ideal scope would be for it...

3-9 x 40 mildot sounds good to me. My friend might put a bi pod on the front of it and take it longer distance rabbit popping... so a 12 power might be fun?

What do you suggest. My firned eagerly awaits.

Also - what diiference do good rings really make? I've always gone for just good old "whatever looks ok" brand but this friend of mine wants to know y'see..

jrandom

15th June 2007, 11:42

mildot

I wouldn't bother with a mildot scope or other optical ranging device. With .17HMR, once you're out of the 2" or so point-blank vertical stringing range from about 125m, the teensy bullet has lost so much energy that achieving meaningful hits is going to be dicey at best.

Anyway, can you even get variable mildot scopes? The marks on the crosshair would have to somehow move as you zoomed in.

3-9x sounds good though, and I'd look for something with a big aperture, something that works well in low light for shootin' wee critters at sunset.

ManDownUnder

15th June 2007, 11:46

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bush-rs-bnr-716244.html

I wouldn't bother with a mildot scope or other optical ranging device. With .17HMR, once you're out of the 2" or so point-blank vertical stringing range from about 125m, the teensy bullet has lost so much energy that achieving meaningful hits is going to be dicey at best.

Anyway, can you even get variable mildot scopes? The marks on the crosshair would have to somehow move as you zoomed in.

3-9x sounds good though, and I'd look for something with a big aperture, something that works well in low light for shootin' wee critters at sunset.

jrandom

15th June 2007, 11:50

http://www.opticsplanet.net/bush-rs-bnr-716244.html

Oh, well, there you go. Cool.

But that's a scope for 4500fps centerfire varminting cartridges, .204 Ruger and the like, not rimfires. Overkill for a .17HMR, IMHO.

ManDownUnder

15th June 2007, 11:56

Oh, well, there you go. Cool.

But that's a scope for 4500fps centerfire varminting cartridges, .204 Ruger and the like, not rimfires. Overkill for a .17HMR, IMHO.

Yeah - that's just what showed up on the Bushnell pages... (Ctrl F is my friend)

Swoop

15th June 2007, 15:07

What a coincidence that your friend has a login which is very similar...

3-9 varipower with a 50mm objective lens sounds nice. If shooting dawn/dusk the bigger the better.
Forget the mil-dot.

Don't buy "bargain basement" rings. It is fantastic to have an accurate rifle. It is fantastic to have the best scope possible. The rings are the only connection between the two!

Talk to Scotty at Reloaders.

jrandom

15th June 2007, 15:19

Forget the mil-dot.

Yeah.

Further on this... I mean, if one is buying toys, well, me personally, anyway, I'd rather have a laser rangefinder. Mil dots are a poor substitute; they're just a crutch to assist visual range estimation, and still require mental arithmetic to work with.

I betcha that 90% of recreational shooters with mil dot scopes don't actually know how to use them properly, don't know the exact trajectory of the loads they're shooting and haven't zeroed their weapon for optimal point-blank range. They probably just like the WW2 U-boat feel of having extra shit on their crosshairs.

Drunken Monkey

15th June 2007, 16:47

...I betcha that 90% of recreational shooters with mil dot scopes don't actually know how to use them properly, don't know the exact trajectory of the loads they're shooting and haven't zeroed their weapon for optimal point-blank range. They probably just like the WW2 U-boat feel of having extra shit on their crosshairs.

..and your problem with that is...? LOL :)

It's the same reason we'd all go hunting with MSSA's if it wasn't so much trouble these days...You know exactly what I mean.

Swoop

15th June 2007, 17:05

I betcha that 90% of recreational shooters with mil dot scopes don't actually know how to use them properly
Scratching my head here...
I seem to remember thet the dot was equal to the shoulder width of a human at XX yards.
I need to refresh memory on this!
http://www.eabco.com/Reports/MildotRep01.htm

jrandom

15th June 2007, 17:15

It's the same reason we'd all go hunting with MSSA's if it wasn't so much trouble...

I wouldn't. I like bolt actions.

I seem to remember thet the dot was equal to the shoulder width of a human at XX yards.

Each dot represents one milliradian of arc, doesn't it? I'd work out the trig if I could be arsed and it wasn't Friday arvo.

Smokin

15th June 2007, 17:32

they asked me to ask what the ideal scope would be for it...

3-9 x 40 mildot sounds good to me. My friend might put a bi pod on the front of it and take it longer distance rabbit popping... so a 12 power might be fun?

I have this one on mine... http://www.opticsplanet.net/tasco-6-24x44-targetvarmint.html

But if you intend to shoot walibys (sp) you tend to see a lens full of fluff instead of your intended hitting point if they are a bit closer, also take a really solid rest to hold it on a bunny at longer range shooting.

Waliby's fall surprizingly easy to a 17HMR once the crosshairs find the head or neck and the killing range is impressive also for such a tiny pill.

on one of the forums I have visited a heap of people use the "BSA sweet 17"
and swear by them. http://www.opticsplanet.net/bsa-rifle-scopes.html

ManDownUnder

15th June 2007, 21:59

on one of the forums I have visited a heap of people use the "BSA sweet 17"
and swear by them. http://www.opticsplanet.net/bsa-rifle-scopes.html

Cheers!

That photo reminds me of a joke...
If a big cock needs a big condom
and a small cock needs a small condom

What do you put on a soft cock??

A Wallaby Jersey! *boom tish!*

jrandom

15th June 2007, 22:47

A Wallaby Jersey! *boom tish!*

Mods! PD!

God, dude, that's really bad, even for you.

scumdog

15th June 2007, 23:32

I wouldn't bother with a mildot scope or other optical ranging device. With .17HMR, once you're out of the 2" or so point-blank vertical stringing range from about 125m, the teensy bullet has lost so much energy that achieving meaningful hits is going to be dicey at best.

Anyway, can you even get variable mildot scopes? The marks on the crosshair would have to somehow move as you zoomed in.

3-9x sounds good though, and I'd look for something with a big aperture, something that works well in low light for shootin' wee critters at sunset.

I concur. 'Mil-dot's are a fad.
A 3-9 with '30-30' cross-hairs would be ample.

Even a 'bread-and-butter' Nikko-Stirling 'Gold Crown' would do the trick.:yes:

On a rifle with no recoil and is not going to be carried from sea-level up to 5,500 feet up a montain a Gold Crown is plentry adequate.

scumdog

15th June 2007, 23:36

It's the same reason we'd all go hunting with MSSA's if it wasn't so much trouble these days...You know exactly what I mean.

It's NEVER too much trouble!

But speaking of which, has anybody got the proper press-type adjuster for a AK47 fore-sight?

I need to adjust mine so that I don't have to 'aim-off' all the time (windage is off to the right by a bit)

scumdog

15th June 2007, 23:39

Waliby's fall surprizingly easy to a 17HMR once the crosshairs find the head or neck and the killing range is impressive also for such a tiny pill.

I've tried all sorts on 'wobblies', - Mini14, SKS, Gevarm 20 shot 22 etc but at the end of the day killed more with my Sako lever-action 308 at all ranges, messed them up a tad and cost more but put me in good stead when it came to deer and chamois etc.

Mr Merde

16th June 2007, 15:02

On the 5th of May I moved to a house in the country.

Been looking over my back fence and 50 meters away running parrellel to my property is the most perfect 100 meter range.

Southerly facing from a grass covered rocky outcrop about 3 meters high to a cliff over 20 meters high. Sheltered from my house by the bank of a rolling hill and from the nearest neighbours by the rocky outcrop,

Slight elevation but nothing too much.

I've walked the ground a number of times and wanted to shoot there and then.

This morning I went and saw the farmer who owns the land, what luck he is a shooter. He said that I could use the land for target practice whenever I felt like it. he did ask me to be careful of any stock (sheep) in the field but that goes without saying for me.

So what have i got.

My own range. Rifle and shotgun. Smallbore and big bore.

Its a real shame that one isnt allowed to shoot pistol on anything other than a dedicated pistol range that has been approved by the powers. I can shoot 45-70, .44 mag in my carbine, but cant shoot .44 spl or mag with my pistols. Oh dear.

Now to sort out some targets that dont litter the place. I dont want the farmer pissed at me.

Oh by the way there are turkey, peacock and hares on this land also. I've even seen pheasant.

have i died and gone to heaven?

Mr :shit:

Wolf

16th June 2007, 16:27

"He chortled in his joy"

Good on, ya, O poetic scatological one.

Beware the Jabberwock while you're out, tho'...

Mr Merde

16th June 2007, 18:18

"He chortled in his joy"

Good on, ya, O poetic scatological one.

Beware the Jabberwock while you're out, tho'...

A literary masterpiece and one of my personal favourite poems.

I have a vorpal sword

ManDownUnder

16th June 2007, 22:22

A literary masterpiece and one of my personal favourite poems.

I have a vorpal sword

I look forward to hearing it go snicker snack and the triumphant gallumphing (sp?)

Mr Merde... you lucky bastard! Go for gold mate - awesome!

Mr Merde

18th June 2007, 15:18

Today I picked up one of my WMD's.

Loaned a shottie to MDU a few months back and have only just managed to sort out the time to pick it up. My fault.

ANyway the reason for this post follows.

I can without hesitation or reserve vouch for MDU.

My 12 guage came back imaculate. I'm glad he found use for it and for all and sundry here I would have no hesitation in loaning MDU any other of my firearms that he can legally use.

I wouldnt hesitate in standing gaurantee for MDU if any of you are tempted to loan something to him.

Anyway. Enough.

MDU.. Top shooter takes the line.

Mr :shit:

Sniper

18th June 2007, 15:35

I can without hesitation or reserve vouch for MDU.
MDU.. Top shooter takes the line.

Mr :shit:

Yup, he is a top bloke. Plus he is a fairly decent shot too when he killed my rock.

ManDownUnder

18th June 2007, 15:39

*shucks*.. cheers guys. Without turning this into a circle jerk... ditto.

There don't seem to be too many around here I would not go shooting with, and I'm kinda fussy.

Mr Merde

21st June 2007, 10:04

As the title said, not too well today.

Feeling a little under the weather so I stayed home.

Got a little bored after 1 hour so I thought I would drag out all the guns and give them a clean and polish. AGAIN

Finished all the rifles and shotguns. Now for the pistols. Hang on I have some reloading tasks that need doing

Pop down to the shed. Get out the 500 .44 Mag cases that I have put through the tumbler.

"better start by decapping them" Started doing this and after about 50 the bloody decapping pin broke. Chrecked all my spares. Bugger none there. No dies I can rob, Oh well. There goes that idea.

How about reloading the ones I have. Sh1t, not enough powder.

I know MDU gave me some lead the other day.

So now I'm sitting waiting for the lead pot to heat up.

I'll spend the rest of the day casting some new heads for my 44's and possibly some for my .30 Carbine.

Not really the bestr thing to do when not feeling well but I'm so addicted to working that it feels strange not to be there.

Need a bloody good break. 2 weeks sounds like "just what the doctor ordered". Better check when I get back to work.

By the end of the day I should have a couple of thousand .44 projectiles and a large number of .30.

DOES anyone out there have moulds for 30-30 projectiles. Seriously short of these and getting my hands on lead projectriles is damm hard.

Coffee time. Gotta stop rambling.

Mr :shit:

Mr Merde

21st June 2007, 16:09

Decided that I needed a break from casting projectiles.

Threw on the gumboots an old coat and a hat and went for a walk in the fields around my house.

So what did I see?

1 Peacock
2 rabbits
1 hare
34 wild turkeys

Peacock looked too nice to take but the bunnies, the hare and the turkeys were so tempting.

For a short while I contemplated rushing home, getting the .223 rifle, a few rounds of ammo and a game bag.

Major problem. My freezer is on the blink so any game I harvested would have been a waste. Always another day now that I know where they gather.

I was stunned by the turkeys. 3 flocks.

The first was only 4 birds, the 2nd flock I saw I counted 22 of the birds. Bet i didnt see them all. The third flock there was only 8.

I've got another month for these before they are out of season. Definitely going to fill the freezer soon. Christmas is going to be different for my family this year.

Only thing i havent seen a lot of is possums. Tell me, do they hibernate in the winter?

Time to stop. Time for coffee. Time to ponder lost opportunities.

Mr :shit:

Swoop

21st June 2007, 16:46

...has anybody got the proper press-type adjuster for a AK47 fore-sight?

I need to adjust mine so that I don't have to 'aim-off' all the time (windage is off to the right by a bit)
Windage?
The genuine article appears much like a "G-cramp" apparatus. Perhaps something similar or a drift-punch and hammer affair might do the trick?

scumdog

21st June 2007, 16:54

Windage?
The genuine article appears much like a "G-cramp" apparatus. Perhaps something similar or a drift-punch and hammer affair might do the trick?

Tried the brass-drift-and-hammer routine, no luck, it got to the stage i thought I might bend/damage something.

Swoop

21st June 2007, 17:02

...got to the stage i thought I might bend/damage something.
On an AK?????!!!!:shit: :shit: :rofl:

BIGGER hammer!!!!!

IamCornholio

22nd June 2007, 09:56

Very, Very, f'ing cool to see a 'firearm' thread in here! :yes:

Damn! I am LOVING this site here! :Punk:

I have been reloading all my own for the last few years now and currently have a selection of both handguns and rifles to choose from...

I do not live in New Zealand (sadly, as you guys DO have a beautiful country) and I do not have to 'register' and such the same as you folks do where I live...

My favorite pistols that I own are the Springfield 1911A1 (.45 cal) because it is BIG as hell and packs a horrible punch when equipped with the hollow point, Triton brand, 'prefragmented' ammo that I prefer... and my Beretta 92F Centurion (custom) as it is the fastest shooting handgun I have and will easily hold 17 rounds (or more with an extended clip)... :innocent:

As for rifles, I own a few Colt rifles in the 5.56mm flavor (M-16/AR-15 type) but my favorites are the ones that I built myself of this type... :yes:

My absolute FAV is the DPMS build that I did a while back... :yes:

DPMS lower (millspec of course), ALL COLT internals (less the actual trigger), 16" heavy, SS, BB with cryo treating and fluting, A3 'flattop' upper receiver with a 4.5 x 14 AO scope mounted instead of the iron sights, M4 collapseable stock, JP adjustable trigger assembly set at a perfect 2 1/2lb crack with less than crap for overtravel, Harris adjustable bipod... I forget all the crap I did to it friends but I am fixing to get a pic for sure... :Punk:

Only gun I ever had that could burp off 3 holes at 100yds all touching in a second or so... Hang that paper on the wall for sure!

I own some AK models as well but tend to refer to them as my 'boatpaddles' as they are... You know... :innocent:

I have shot a PILE of the SS109 ammo off at the range at steel plates but here lately I have been making my own using real carbide and such... :shit:

I have absolutely NO restrictions on the type of ammo that I am allowed to make for myself where I live and if I WANT to make me up some AP stuff... It is all good and I have NO worries at all. I have to pay out the ass to buy the stuff but I can make my own for cheap...

Anyone care to 'clue' me in as to what sort of firearm 'regulations' you guys in New Zealand have???

Judging from the first few pages of this thread that I have read so far... You folks got some serious rules and restrictions going on over here...

IamCornholio

The Lone Rider

22nd June 2007, 11:17

Firearms in NZ simplified

A category - Rifles and shotguns in general, must be over a certain length

Pistol License - Must be registered with a pistol club

Other Licenses - E and C basically are automatic firearms and collectable explosives etc. Good luck getting one of those licenses though.

If you want more detail try www.police.govt.nz as I'm sure they have something there.

IamCornholio

22nd June 2007, 11:49

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question dyers...

Reading that now friend...

Swoop

22nd June 2007, 13:06

Firearms in NZ simplified
Pistol License - Must be registered with a pistol club

Other Licenses - E and C basically are automatic firearms and collectable explosives etc.
"Collectable explosives???? Huh?
Pistols. You must be a member of a club and the pistols get registered against your licence.

"E" licence is for those politically incorrect rifles which were basically "military"... pistol grips, flash eliminators, bayonet lug, large magazine.

"C" is collector. Can have handguns under 100mm barrel length, full auto. These cannot be fired however.

The Lone Rider

22nd June 2007, 13:44

Yes, collectable explosives. Some restrictions on some firearms are classed in the same class as mortars. If you have mortar rounds then you are either military or collect military weapons.

Wolf

22nd June 2007, 14:22

dyers, swoop, you both forgot to mention that you have to register your arse as a "potentially lethal concealed firearm" if you eat pickled onion sandwiches in our current nanny state...

IamCornholio

23rd June 2007, 00:05

"Collectable explosives???? Huh?
Pistols. You must be a member of a club and the pistols get registered against your licence.

"E" licence is for those politically incorrect rifles which were basically "military"... pistol grips, flash eliminators, bayonet lug, large magazine.

"C" is collector. Can have handguns under 100mm barrel length, full auto. These cannot be fired however.

Wow you guys have some serious regulations... :Police:

Our regulations DO vary somewhat from state to state over here but for the most part if one has a spotless record (NO felonies and such - No history of 'mental illness') then a concealed carry permit is fairly easy and inexpensive to obtain. (again, our rules DO vary from state to state)

In my particular state, My permit will allow me to carry a concealed weapon in the states bordering mine as well. My permit is not tied to a specific 'serial number' and allows me to carry any type of 'handgun' (so long as it is classified as a 'handgun') of any caliper...

We also have 'instant' background checks when purchasing a firearm and so long as your record is clean, One can usually get approved in minutes or instantly if you are a concealed carry permit holder and show them your permit... :yes:

As for 'automatic' type weapons... One will have to register the weapon as a class 3 firearm and purchase a 'tax stamp' for a few hundred bucks a year.
A separate stamp is needed for each weapon as each stamp is tied to a particular serial number... (sometimes tied to the serial number on the actual 'autosear' itself) The weapon MUST come from a class3 firearms dealer and the paperwork must be done and approved before the transfer.

We are allowed to shoot them as well...

There is this one particular range out here called 'Top Brass' which keeps a few full auto weapons for rental at their range. For some rediculous amount like $20 or $30 bucks, They will give you a shooting lane, a target, an uzi or somesuch gun, and 1 clip of ammo...

You may then watch your money disappear in a few seconds... :shit:

But you DO get to keep the little paper scraps! :yes:

Wolf

23rd June 2007, 00:31

The category "B" - pistol licence - here, replaces our old "Permit to Carry", which isn't as exciting as it sounds.

Here's the deal:

On my Category A (rifles and shotguns) I can purchase a pistol through a pistol club. Said pistol belongs to me but is kept at the club under lock and key and under the control of the club's armourer. No one else can use the pistol and I can use the pistol whenever I go to the club.

The Category "B" means I can store said pistol in an approved lockable carrying case and take it home where I can lock it in an approved safe. I can then take said pistol in its carry case back to the club and practise shooting.

Such is our "Permit to Carry" or category "B" licence.

As has been said, the "E" category is for semi-autos that "look mean".

Thank a high-profile slaying and a few lying politicians for that retarded law.

I looked into the MSSA (Military Style Semi Auto, Category E) licencing requirements and they did not seem to differ much from the original requirements for a Collector's licence (Category "C") and I was wondering if the requirements for a collector's licence had been made harder, else why go through all that to get an "E" for mean-looking semiautos when you could get a "C" for real autos.

Perhaps there are those here who are more up with the comparisons between E and C licencing requirements and restrictions.

Things have become a trifle easier - when I first went for my licence it was the old "permit to procure" system - you paid your fee, got your clearance, sat and passed the safety test and were given a permit to procure a firearm which then had to be registered with the police.

Now you pay your fee, get your clearance, pass your test and get yourself licenced. Then you can present your firearms licence any time you like to purchase a rifle or shotgun and you don't have to lodge the details with the police.

Mumbles

23rd June 2007, 10:52

Heres my 2cents

But its all here in the thread.... Wolf got most of it down :rockon:

A cat The round count for your gun, (rim fire) .22 max is 15 (center fire) count is max 7. Center fire no free standing pistol grip, bayonet lug must be removed etc.. Storage of firearms is to prevent accidental access (stops kids from getting dads guns when he at work etc...

E cat is the greater rounds, free standing pistol grip, plus all the other bells and whistles that would have come with the gun just not the old 3 speed gearbox (Full auto)
Storage of firearms is to prevent thieft, min 8mm steal fixed into concrete two locks etc..

C Cat is for collectors they can purchase anything that they like, but the kicker is that you cannot shoot anything that is on your "C" so if you've got the old full auto you cant shoot it.... or dont get caught shootin it.
Storage of firearms is to prevent thieft, Dont have a "C" but would be along the same lines as a "B" but I think that you have to have a monitored alarm

B Cat Pistol shooting, your pistols have to relate to what you shoot and you have to get a permit off your club to purchase the gun then show permit and gun to arms officer at a police station, Last time i checked your allowed 9 pistols, to keep you license you must, belong to a pistol club that belongs to Pistol NZ, shoot 12 time a year at a club level and be a good guy/girl.

E cat once you get you dont have to belong to a club to keep.

NZ firearms license now lasts 10 years.

Not 100% sure on all of this as things of changed and i'm out of the committee side of shooting, so now doing more shooting :yes:

Did I mention to you guys that I now only live a 7 min drive to the range? :nono: