The firearm thread

[Wolf]

Do people actually do that kind of hunting in NZ? With any success?
I have heard some people claim that that's the best way - dunno if they've had much success with it.

Sounds too much like fishing off the jetty to me. Boring!

Most people I know wander around looking for fresh sign and track/stalk the game.

[wbks]

Yea, you'd feel pretty rambo if you got all ghillied up and 'eliminated' your "target" after waiting a couple days in a bush by a waterhole, though...

[The Pastor]

Yea, you'd feel pretty rambo if you got all ghillied up and 'eliminated' your "target" after waiting a couple days in a bush by a waterhole, though...
I dunno what type of bush you've been in but ours is so dry and so few "waterholes" that you'd prob only have to wait a couple of hours before the game turned up. IF you could find one.

[The Pastor]

Cheers for the awesome shottie chris!

[Wolf]

Yea, you'd feel pretty rambo if you got all ghillied up and 'eliminated' your "target" after waiting a couple days in a bush by a waterhole, though...
You've been here a while now, so why would you think I could sit still and shut up for a couple of hours, let alone a couple of days? :laugh:

[Drunken Monkey]

So, after all the planning and anticipation, I won't be out at Chris's place today and won't be meeting a shit-load of people I was keen to meet.

"Fucked off" does not even begin to cover it.

Have a great day guys.

Likewise. JR and I are particularly disappointed in you! :P
Don't stress too much, I'm sure there will be another.


Man I needed that, just some time to put through some rounds of my familiar ones so I can be more confident about where the bullets fly over different ranges, and man that Norinco M14 is fun to fire!

Many thanks to Mr Merde for introducing me to black powder weapons, some very nice shooters there! And Jono too, for sharing his selection. :)

Great way to spend a Sunday, cheers all!

[Wolf]

Cheers for the awesome shottie chris!
Hope you guys had an awesome day shooting. Still seriously pissed off at missing it - no idea when I will next have a free day to head out to Chris' place... can't exactly turn up for a shoot with a one-year-old, a three-year-old and the two boys in tow...

[jono035]

"Fucked off" does not even begin to cover it.

Yeah, we were sorry to hear about that man, would have been good to have you along.

Chris: Cheers for the blast of the springfield cadet and the little baikal, both beautiful guns!
DM: Good to meet you and cheers for letting me have a play with the M14.

and thanks to JRandom, Alex, Indy and RM for an awesome afternoon even if we did get pretty soaked...

[jono035]

And Jono too, for sharing his selection.

Not a worry mate, the M14 was a hoot and I always like seeing people get as much enjoyment out of my toys as I do!

Edit: Got home and gave the new toy a going over and managed to fix both the sticky cylinder advance and the catchy cylinder opening, the ejector lever had come loose and was lightly wedging the cylinder advance teeth back against the frame. Tightened it back up by hand and the cylinder is tighter, it opens cleanly and advances on all cylinders without the slightest hesitation! From looking at the mechanism I think that will solve the 2 or 3 failure-to-advance issues I had...

[Wolf]

Chris' blackpowder firearms are great. Love the smell of blackpowder.

Hell, I love the smell of smokeless powder, too.

Fuck it, I just love shooting.

[JDK]

WOLF ya want to get a good fix of 80 grains of black in a shot gun and 32 grains in colt 45's cures headcolds hayfever and add's at least 2 inchs to ya

[Wolf]

WOLF ya want to get a good fix of 80 grains of black in a shot gun and 32 grains in colt 45's cures headcolds hayfever and add's at least 2 inchs to ya
Considering the hayfever's been driving me nuts for the last couple of days and I'm a short-arse, sounds like I could use that advice. Have the requisite shotgun - can only fire bp - but not the Colts.

Need to learn how to handload so I can make up the shells for the shotgun.

[Indiana_Jones]

Thanks for the great day guys, and special thanks to Chris for the Shottie, I think you might like the fix up job my old man just had to do to it when I was watching TV lol

Was great to meet DM and to catch up with Jono and Alex :)

And sorry to hear about your bad luck Wolf, next time aye!


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=151156&stc=1&d=1258283152

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

Not a worry mate, the M14 was a hoot and I always like seeing people get as much enjoyment out of my toys as I do!

Edit: Got home and gave the new toy a going over and managed to fix both the sticky cylinder advance and the catchy cylinder opening, the ejector lever had come loose and was lightly wedging the cylinder advance teeth back against the frame. Tightened it back up by hand and the cylinder is tighter, it opens cleanly and advances on all cylinders without the slightest hesitation! From looking at the mechanism I think that will solve the 2 or 3 failure-to-advance issues I had...


Ity was really good toi finally get to shoot that revolving rifle of yours. I heard Colonel Colt had made these back in the good old days but never fired one before.

Glad the cylinder freed up. I was just a little concerned over the drag when cocking it. Did the work you do also tighten up the cylinder when at full cock. Sounds like it should.


Alex thanks for allowing me to try that wonderful 38-40. Sweet as a nut, felt as though I could hit anything with it.

Enjoyed myself emensely today.

Sharron mentioned to me, after you all had left, that you were all very nice people and that we should get you around here before we leave for a shooting day and a barbie. She did say to make it a Saturday so that those who inbibe too much can kip over.

She also hopes that you all keep in touch when we have left as she really likes you all.

JR, you impressed her very much. She thought you were a charming and extremely nice man. She even liked the pipe smoke.

Looks likew I have a lot more reloading to do. Gotta get ammo ready for the next days shooting.

Chris

[Mr Merde]

Alex,

I see you won that box of 38-40 on TM.

Good. At the worst you have just doubled your brass.

31 gns of FFg is a nice load.

Not too sure about the semi jacketed bullets. BP needs lots of lube.

Keeps the fouling soft and doesnt bake into the grooves.

49 rounds wont hurt. Gotta find you a mould and some dies. And some more brass.


Indy, that fix is brilliant. In the spirit of the old time gunsmiths. Do anything to keep a gun working. You could build up over the nail with silver solder or something similar to look the same as the other hammer.

Jono, you can never have enough .44 mag. I have 300 cases in my loading room and 800 .44 spl. They will all be loaded soon. As it is my 53rd birthday on Tuesday week I am going to allow myself as a treat to spend either Saturday or Sunday, casting some more heads for the .44

I'm also as my present to myself, going to get a tin of FFg and load some more BP rounds. I loved the was that Scotts hammer gun handled the brass case.

JDK, my brass shotgun case worked a treat.

3.4 cc FFg with an over powder wad, thick felt wad over that, 1 1/8 oz of #7 shot, thinner felt wad over that then a paper card. This lot came to about 1/8 inch fronm the top of the case. I'll try a few more out and check it for patterning. Will let you know how thye go. I could do with another 100 of these cases.

Chris

[Wolf]

At this stage, the weekend of 5-6 December should be free for me. Possibly the following weekend - not sure on that yet.

The next 2 weekends are stuffed.

How long before you move, Chris?

[Mr Merde]

At this stage, the weekend of 5-6 December should be free for me. Possibly the following weekend - not sure on that yet.

The next 2 weekends are stuffed.

How long before you move, Chris?


Someone has to buy the place first

[Indiana_Jones]

Someone has to buy the place first

$10 and a box of ammo?

-Indy

[Wolf]

$10 and a box of ammo?

-Indy
That'd depend on the box of ammo, I guess.

A box of military-surplus 7.62x51 probably wouldn't cut it...

[Mr Merde]

$10 and a box of ammo?

-Indy

Can I choose the ammo?

4 bricks of depleted uranium .50 BMG should just about cover it.

[Wolf]

That'd depend on the box of ammo, I guess.

A box of military-surplus 7.62x51 probably wouldn't cut it...


Can I choose the ammo?

4 bricks of depleted uranium .50 BMG should just about cover it.

Was I right or was I right! :banana:

[JDK]

Chris
tryed harry last night just got his answer phone will try again tonight

yea see what ya pattern is like talking to craig (wad man ) he said watch too much in front of shot load as wad slows down and punchs a hole in pattern ,ones behind slow down faster than shot so don't blow though the shot pattern ..
yea i could get some more brass in i'll let ya know if i'm going to
jono yea i'm a slacker i still have not got the brass in the mail to ya keep tripping over them

[Indiana_Jones]

One brick of Hungry's finest 7.62x54R? :D

-Indy

[jono035]

Chris: There is still the slightest bit of wiggle in the cylinder at full cock, but it appears to be tilting slightly rather than moving side to side. I think this means that the indexing is perfect but the cylinder has a little bit of play on its shaft. No idea if that is just manufacturing tolerance or wear and tear. Where the barrel meets up with the cylinder was smoky but didn't have any marks on it so I'm guessing all the bullets made it in without catching the edges.

I can see what you mean about never having enough .44 magnum lying around. I'm definitely keen to build up a heap more brass and I'm going to order some of the same Hornady TiN dies that I have for the 9mm because they seem really well made. Need to find a good source of cheap heads though (time to look at casting again, perhaps?) so I can put in some serious range time with it. That and I might need to source some different powder, a full-house load of AP70N in the .44 magnum case is well less than half full... Any suggestions?

I'm also considering selling my target .22 and using that money to try get a .44 levergun. I've never got anything bigger than a .22 rifle because I can't fire it at the CSI range, but then again I never shoot my rifles there because the pistols are too fun! If anyone here is interested or knows anyone who might be keen then send me a PM and I'll send through the specs...

JDK: No hurry at all on that brass, got one off Chris yesterday that I can have a play with. Will see what I can come up with!

Chris: Thank your lady again for her hospitality, I think all of us can safely say that we'll be keen to take you both up on the offer of shooting + barbeque!

[wbks]

You've been here a while now, so why would you think I could sit still and shut up for a couple of hours, let alone a couple of days? :laugh:A quiet Atheism vs. Christianity argument, then?

[jono035]

I just realised that the .44 magnum winchester factory ammo that I went through like popcorn is $2 per round. $12 per cylinder... holy hell.

The cheapest I can find jacketed soft point projectiles is about 40c each so the reloads were about 60c each too...

In total, $140 worth of ammo over 2 days... Bloody hell.

Time to price up casting gear, pronto.

Chris: The reloads were about the same power as the Winchester factory stuff which runs about 1200fps out of a 4" barrel for 1000 Joules. 1200 Joules is the max listed for AP70 and that is from an 8" barrel, so I doubt I'll be loading anything stouter than those rounds, which is a pity... Going to investigate a few other handloads and see what other people can squeeze out of a 4" barrel...

[Drunken Monkey]

In total, $140 worth of ammo over 2 days... Bloody hell.

haha, yeah I did more than that of the ammo I brought just on Sunday arvo, let alone who else's I used. But I was going nuts...wouldn't normally fire even close to that much on a hunting trip.

[Mr Merde]

haha, yeah I did more than that of the ammo I brought just on Sunday arvo, let alone who else's I used. But I was going nuts...wouldn't normally fire even close to that much on a hunting trip.

Ahhhh the smell and sound of burning powder, the feel of recoil, the sense of anticipation as you pull the trigger, the feeling of elation if you actually hit what you are aiming at, wasnt it all worth it.

It was good to see you there and you're welcome to come to as many of these days I can hold before we finally sell the place.

As said previously. Sharron enjoyed all your company and suggested we make it a whole day event next time. Shooting followed by barbie and such. She suggested a Saturday so that those who indulge in the "and such" part can crash at the house for the night.

[Indiana_Jones]

As said previously. Sharron enjoyed all your company and suggested we make it a whole day event next time. Shooting followed by barbie and such. She suggested a Saturday so that those who indulge in the "and such" part can crash at the house for the night.

Sounds very much like a good plan

One weekend in December?

Though it can't be on the 5th of December for myself as I have plans for that day.

12th is good for me, anyone else?

-Indy

[The Pastor]

Ahhhh the smell and sound of burning powder, the feel of recoil, the sense of anticipation as you pull the trigger, the feeling of elation if you actually hit what you are aiming at, wasnt it all worth it.

It was good to see you there and you're welcome to come to as many of these days I can hold before we finally sell the place.

As said previously. Sharron enjoyed all your company and suggested we make it a whole day event next time. Shooting followed by barbie and such. She suggested a Saturday so that those who indulge in the "and such" part can crash at the house for the night.
sounds like a bloody good idea.

Get a bit of clay bird shooting going on too.

[Mr Merde]

sounds like a bloody good idea.

Get a bit of clay bird shooting going on too.

I could get my hands on a proper clay bird thrower.

ALso I spoke to those organising the new range. We are all set for the pre submission meeting with the council.

We are all meeting up at the end of next week to discuss where we are. We will be making submission to Franklin Council the following week.

It should only take about 1 month after that to get apporoval and that means that in late Jan early Feb we will begin the installation of the safety equipment, props etc. Should be up and running about the end of Feb\March.

We will be looking for new members and associate members. ALso the ranges will be open on a "day fee" basis.

So good news.

[jono035]

I could get my hands on a proper clay bird thrower.

ALso I spoke to those organising the new range. We are all set for the pre submission meeting with the council.

We are all meeting up at the end of next week to discuss where we are. We will be making submission to Franklin Council the following week.

It should only take about 1 month after that to get apporoval and that means that in late Jan early Feb we will begin the installation of the safety equipment, props etc. Should be up and running about the end of Feb\March.

We will be looking for new members and associate members. ALso the ranges will be open on a "day fee" basis.

So good news.

Depending on location and membership details I'll be keen. Happy enough to help out with any setup and such if it is being done on a member working bee type arrangement.

The entire weekend of the 12th is already booked for me, but I'm free for any others...

[The Pastor]

yeah that weekend (12th) im busy too

[Drunken Monkey]

That's some good news RE: the range there, Mr M. You know what would really appeal to me (and a few other people I shoot with on occasion) - some sort of casual shooting arrangement, i.e. where outside of 'organised club shoots' it would be possible for members to rock on up and use some of the facilities to do sighting in or basic practice, intead of having to rely on a strict access regime of "every other Sunday and the occasional Thursday" or similar.

RE: BBQ, pretty much anything works for me, I will adjust to suit.

[Wolf]

Bugger, so I missed out on the only weekend when everyone was free until sometime next year!

I'm not sure if the 12th will be free for me or not. I hope so, but there's no guarantee at this early stage.

[jono035]

That's some good news RE: the range there, Mr M. You know what would really appeal to me (and a few other people I shoot with on occasion) - some sort of casual shooting arrangement, i.e. where outside or 'organised club shoots' it would be possible for members to rock on up and use some of the facilities to do sighting in or basic practice, intead of having to rely on a strict access regime of "every other Sunday and the occasional Thursday" or similar.

RE: BBQ, pretty much anything works for me, I will adjust to suit.

Yeah, access at CSI is like that and it is excellent to be able to cruise along whenever. It's also good to be able to shoot in whatever strings you feel like rather than waiting on everyone to finish before bringing the targets back.

It can be a real bastard though, especially depending on what kind of facilities are offered or if there are any limits placed on when and how the range can be used...

[The Pastor]

what do u mean, you cant use cannons? :(

[Mr Merde]

what do u mean, you cant use cannons? :(

Not big ones anyway

[The Pastor]

Not big ones anyway
damn, my cannon is pretty big.

[Indiana_Jones]

Change of plans, the 5th is now free for me

-Indy

[jono035]

Change of plans, the 5th is now free for me

-Indy

I'm good for the 5th too... Providing I can get some ammo together in time!

[The Pastor]

5th will be bloodly fantastic for me too

[jono035]

5th will be bloodly fantastic for me too

Right, which leaves Alex, DM, JRandom from last shoot, Wolf and MDU from the absentees list?

And of course the final yay or nay from hosts :p

Edit: JDK - you said you couldn't drive there and back in a day, well there has already been the gracious offer of a place to kip, so that gives you 2 full days! Google maps reckons about 20 hours... That gives you a few hours of shooting, an hour to eat, a few hours of sleep and back within 48 hours!

[Wolf]

5th I can do as far as I can tell - barring some really nasty unforeseen circumstances. The bike should be all go by then - here's hoping there will be no more unpleasant surprises.

[The Pastor]

5th I can do as far as I can tell - barring some really nasty unforeseen circumstances. The bike should be all go by then - here's hoping there will be no more unpleasant surprises.
Better look in the mirror before the 5th then

[ready4whatever]

Does anybody here have a class B licence. I want to get into pistol shooting. Is anybody in a local club. Eastern bay / Whakatane area. PM me. Thanks

[Mr Merde]

Does anybody here have a class B licence. I want to get into pistol shooting. Is anybody in a local club. Eastern bay / Whakatane area. PM me. Thanks

I have a B cat licence but unfortunately not in your area.

There are some pistol clubs down Napier way and in Kati Kati, Taupo.

What do you want to know. Just ask away here and we will try and answer your questions. Some of them sensibly.

Chris

[Wolf]

Does anybody here have a class B licence. I want to get into pistol shooting. Is anybody in a local club. Eastern bay / Whakatane area. PM me. Thanks
Going by your avatar pic, I'd've thought knives were more your thing. :devil2:

You only need a class B licence if you store your pistols at home and transport them to/from the club/range.

All the best in finding a club in your area, it's a great sport to participate in. Most clubs have pistols available for those who do not have their own.

[Wolf]

Better look in the mirror before the 5th then
And risk seven years of bad luck?!?!?!?! Things are going badly enough as it is!

[JDK]

HAHAHA yea it would be good to meet up with ya's never know one day maybe i'm also on a few other farming forums and CAS ones meet a few people off there ..
even had a guy come out from easten europe to my wedding a few years back

http://www.pistolnz.org.nz/
that site may help with contacts in ya area or drop them a line they will help out in ya area

there has been a few changes over the past few months if ya not wanting to own a handgun most clubs have them for use during club days

also depends on wah tya want to shoot be it target ot more action or if ya got a cowboy hat ya can shoot CAS ..

Damm it just worked out the 5th sucks for me as i have a shoot here on the 6th

Oh yea you guys reloading look on TM there is a fella there doing good deals on shotgun lead and also ADI powders save ya a few bucks and buy in a group he can do any of the ADI powders just ask him

[ready4whatever]

ok ta. I know of one in Awakeri, just got to find out who to contact. I've done smallbore and skeet shooting. I had a go with a 38 special revolver and i really enjoyed it. Hopefully im around once a month to keep the licence!

[Drunken Monkey]

Indy's rep comment "reminded" me to errr "dig up" this old 5 page Ministry of Education safety document regarding tin cans (attached).

Sunday was good training for these very situations!

[Wolf]

Indy's rep comment "reminded" me to errr "dig up" this old 5 page Ministry of Education safety document regarding tin cans (attached).

Sunday was good training for these very situations!
If we don't do our bit to keep the cans under control now, we may not live long enough to have to worry about Zombie Apocalypse...

[jono035]

If we don't do our bit to keep the cans under control now, we may not live long enough to have to worry about Zombie Apocalypse...

That'd be a hell of a shame, I was quite looking forward to it, too...

[Indiana_Jones]

Martini will pwn teh Zombies

HAVE AT YOU, SIR!

-Indy

[jono035]

ok ta. I know of one in Awakeri, just got to find out who to contact. I've done smallbore and skeet shooting. I had a go with a 38 special revolver and i really enjoyed it. Hopefully im around once a month to keep the licence!

Dunno about down there but up here I was told that they strongly prefer people to get B-cat licenses, I guess because it takes the pressure off the club guns.

http://www.centralshooters.co.nz/pistol-licence-process

That's a pretty concise summary of the process for anyone who is interested but basically it is:

Get A-cat license
Join gun club and Pistol NZ
Shoot 12 times in 6 months and also complete a basic pistol shooting course, normally run by the gun club
Get a form filled out by a few people, extra referees (other shooters preferred) etc. It gets posted off to wellington and bounced around a bit.
Install safe (mine cost $200, same requirements as E-cat but smaller!)
Get interviewed and your safe inspected.

For me the most difficult bit was actually figuring out how to get the safe mounted. They have a few odd little requirements like if it is going to be on a wooden floor, making up a pull plate that spans the floor joists and it not being allowed to be in a building that isn't normally occupied (no shed) although this can be got around if the building is in plain view in a populated area.

Basically, I haven't met anyone at all who shoots with the club pistols at CSI who wasn't planning to get their B-cat. There are some bloody good value .357 revolvers available on gunstuff at the moment and the occaisional cheap semi-auto has popped up as well. If you're serious about it just have a chat to anyone you see there about their pistols, what their likes and dislikes are about them and then see if you can put a few rounds down range. Just from chatting to other people at CSI I've got to play with some pretty damn neat pistols ranging from a .44 magnum desert eagle to a walther target pistol firing .22CBs that had a bad habit of firing multiple shots with each pull of the trigger (which was, of course, a fault that the guy was intending to get fixed right away!)... We seem to be a pretty friendly bunch for the most part and most are happy to see other people getting some enjoyment from their toys as well...

[jono035]

Martini will pwn teh Zombies

HAVE AT YOU, SIR!

-Indy

I dunno, clubbing zombies seems a bit hazardous... I think I'll try keep some range on them...

[Indiana_Jones]

I dunno, clubbing zombies seems a bit hazardous... I think I'll try keep some range on them...

that's just un-gentlemen like....

-Indy

[The Pastor]

that's just un-gentlemen like....

-Indy
Its not cricket.
http://www.printedclothing.com/contents/media/pc225%20its%20just%20not%20cricket.jpg

[Wolf]

that's just un-gentlemen like....

-Indy


Its not cricket.

Cricket's boring

So's being gentlemen-like...

[jono035]

that's just un-gentlemen like....

-Indy

Rest assured that your gentlemanly manner will be 100% ignored and unrewarded by the Zombies gnawing on your intestines.

I, on the other hand, would prefer to keep said intestines intact and in place...

[jono035]

Hilarious post on the NSA forums about a state representative in Vermont interpreting the constitution as a requirement to keep oneself armed and ready (or alternatively register yourself for a non-firearm-owner license)... Love it, brilliant idea...

[Wolf]

Rest assured that your gentlemanly manner will be 100% ignored and unrewarded by the Zombies gnawing on your intestines.

I, on the other hand, would prefer to keep said intestines intact and in place...
The Zombie Apocalypse will not recognise or adhere to "Queensbury Rules".

Nor the Geneva or Hague Conventions either, so I'm feeling it's my duty to my family to get "experimental" with projectiles...


On an unrelated note, does anyone know where I could find a largeish supply of the old-style mercury thermometers?

I ask merely out of idle curiosity...

[sAsLEX]

The Zombie Apocalypse will not recognise or adhere to "Queensbury Rules".

Nor the Geneva or Hague Conventions either, so I'm feeling it's my duty to my family to get "experimental" with projectiles...


On an unrelated note, does anyone know where I could find a largeish supply of the old-style mercury thermometers?

I ask merely out of idle curiosity...

I hear a hollow point .22 with a plastercine sealing cap over some mercury will cut a strainer post in two....

[jono035]

I hear a hollow point .22 with a plastercine sealing cap over some mercury will cut a strainer post in two....

I've done a bit of fencing so I sincerely hope that this will only be tried on your own personal strainer posts... :p

[sAsLEX]

I've done a bit of fencing so I sincerely hope that this will only be tried on your own personal strainer posts... :p

Plenty of trees in the bush, as well as possums!

<img src=http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2510/182/62/623286570/n623286570_2101279_1360635.jpg>

[wbks]

I hear a hollow point .22 with a plastercine sealing cap over some mercury will cut a strainer post in two....I heard that regular mercury destroys your bullets before you can fire them, and the other kind of mercury will explode in your barrel from the temp....

[The Pastor]

grease and a small ball bering works, but makes it a single shot

[sAsLEX]

I heard that regular mercury destroys your bullets before you can fire them, and the other kind of mercury will explode in your barrel from the temp....

Mercury reacts with lead?

[wbks]

According to almost every google link that pops up with a search of "mercury tip bullet" , regular Mercury alters the bullet structure, and the other kind of Mercury (apparently) explodes at so and so degrees so it would happen before it leaves the barrel. Of course, I've never tried it. Have you?

[sAsLEX]

According to almost every google link that pops up with a search of "mercury tip bullet" , regular Mercury alters the bullet structure, and the other kind of Mercury (apparently) explodes at so and so degrees so it would happen before it leaves the barrel. Of course, I've never tried it. Have you?

No, but most metals don't react with other metals.

I could be wrong.

[jono035]

If you're talking about mercury fulminate then that is an impact explosive that used to be used to make primers if I recall correctly...

Don't assume that just because a bullet is being propelled by burning gases that it comes out of the barrel hot, though...

[jono035]

I just had a quick look around and didn't seen anything near 'almost every google link' saying anything of the sort. Some appear to be people with no actual knowledge arguing over whether it is possible, the rest appear to have nothing to do with elemental mercury in a hollow-point bullet. The only single post in the first 10 results decrying it was from an authors blog where the sole reasoning appeared to be 'what the hell you idiots, mercury can't explode'. The argument appears to be centered around the effective 'expansion' of the dense liquid mercury under the compression of bullet impact, not an explosion as such.

The reaction effect you are talking about would appear to actually be amalgamation. Mercury would create an amalgam with lead and therefore harden, but it would be trivial to use an epoxy or something similar to keep the 2 elements separate...

The fact that most reference the JFK shooting should raise a few red flags as to the qualifications of the discussions participants...

[Wolf]

Mercury is deemed a "mechanical explosive" as it vaporises readily and expands a great amount in a short time. It will vaporise on impact if used in a projectile.

I haven't done it, but a friend of mine allegedly did. It seemed to work quite nicely on strainer posts, he said.

[jono035]

That fits with the descriptions I read about it splitting railroad ties...

Ordered dies, shellholder, projectiles and primers for the .44 magnum, still need a length gauge so I can trim up some of these casings and a better source of projectiles...

Anyone know of a decent source for casting equipment? Asked at Reloaders last time I was there and got brushed off even though they said they could get it in...

[SMOKEU]

Here is an interesting fact for the day. Winchester Super X powerpoint .22LR rounds will shoot straight through a VL Commodore when shot side on in the boot from a close range.

[scumdog]

Here is an interesting fact for the day. Winchester Super X powerpoint .22LR rounds will shoot straight through a VL Commodore when shot side on in the boot from a close range.

I bet the VL owner wasn't none too pleased....

(Wasn't yourself, was it?)

[sAsLEX]

Refixed the pictcanny rail thing on the .22, and used some loctite this time.

Who would of thought a few hundred rounds would of vibrated anything loose?

[Indiana_Jones]

<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wH28Hg5eX0&hl=en_GB&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4wH28Hg5eX0&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>

-Indy

[jono035]

Here is an interesting fact for the day. Winchester Super X powerpoint .22LR rounds will shoot straight through a VL Commodore when shot side on in the boot from a close range.

Odd... We had an old car lying around that we shot up a bit, the .22 rounds were making it through the outside of the door panel but getting stopped somewhere inside the door... Went through the windows pretty easily though, although we didn't try the windscreen...

[Mr Merde]

Odd... We had an old car lying around that we shot up a bit, the .22 rounds were making it through the outside of the door panel but getting stopped somewhere inside the door... Went through the windows pretty easily though, although we didn't try the windscreen...


I have a video tape at hope (VHS) called

Deadly Weapons.

Its 2 hours of a group of shooters trying out all sorts of different firearms, calibres etc in all sorts of different situations.

One of which is penetration of a car door.

They fired pistols at the back doors from about 3 metres.

Only two actually penetrated the car door sucessfully. The 9mm and a 12 gauge solid. All the rest were halted by the doors metal or the mechanisms inside the door. Even the .44 magnum failed to completely penetrate.

Admittedly these were American cars and made of thicker metal than our Jap, Aussie and European cars but it is interesting.

They also showed such thisngs as bullets not smashing through windscreens, .50BMG rounds keyholing after being fired through light brush, full auto guns emptying theior mags and not getting a byullet on target, .357 not breaking the block of a V8.

As a finale they open up on their teat car with a M2 .50 BMG heavy machine gun then after they finish with that they place 4 sticks of gelignite behind each wheel and detonate it.

A very interesting video for those interested in what can and cant be done with various guns and pounds.

I understand it is not available here in NZ.

Chris

[Wolf]

Odd... We had an old car lying around that we shot up a bit, the .22 rounds were making it through the outside of the door panel but getting stopped somewhere inside the door... Went through the windows pretty easily though, although we didn't try the windscreen...
Always wanted to drag an old car out onto a range and conduct "ballistic tests"...


I have a video tape at hope (VHS) called

Deadly Weapons.

[cool shit about shooting up cars snipped]

I understand it is not available here in NZ.

Chris
Which means in order to learn, we have no choice but to resort to actual physical experimentation.

[jono035]

The box o' truth website has a few interesting tests involving vehicles, mostly aimed towards typical 'what-if' scenarios such as should you try use a car or car door as cover if needed, how you should compensate your aim if you have to fire out through a windscreen, that kind of thing. Interesting stuff.

That would be an interesting video, Chris... It is always nice to have a solid idea of what is/is not possible with different rounds. At the least it makes for interesting conversation regarding movie portrayal of firearms etc. and it may even become practically useful someday.

[Mr Merde]

The box o' truth website has a few interesting tests involving vehicles, mostly aimed towards typical 'what-if' scenarios such as should you try use a car or car door as cover if needed, how you should compensate your aim if you have to fire out through a windscreen, that kind of thing. Interesting stuff.

That would be an interesting video, Chris... It is always nice to have a solid idea of what is/is not possible with different rounds. At the least it makes for interesting conversation regarding movie portrayal of firearms etc. and it may even become practically useful someday.

I'll dig it out and the video player also.
Next shoot we could have it playing afterwards and thos einterested can have a look.

It does dispell quite a few myths portayed by the movies and TV, it is also quite dry and long winded in parts.

One of my personal favoutite scenes is where the presenter dons a bullet proof vest from "Second Chance" and the owner of this company aims a FN rifle (.308) at his midriff and fires. Distance of about 1 metre from muzzle to midriff.

The presenter stands on one leg and receives the impact. Doesnt even knowk him off balance.

[Wolf]

and it may even become practically useful someday.
when some gangsta homey is heading towards your car with a firearm you'd have a good idea whether to laugh at him or shit yourself depending on what he has...

[The Pastor]

I'll dig it out and the video player also.
Next shoot we could have it playing afterwards and thos einterested can have a look.

It does dispell quite a few myths portayed by the movies and TV, it is also quite dry and long winded in parts.

One of my personal favoutite scenes is where the presenter dons a bullet proof vest from "Second Chance" and the owner of this company aims a FN rifle (.308) at his midriff and fires. Distance of about 1 metre from muzzle to midriff.

The presenter stands on one leg and receives the impact. Doesnt even knowk him off balance.
Sod me, that guy must have some big balls.

[Mr Merde]

Sod me, that guy must have some big balls.

Richard Davis, the owner of Second Chance, demonstrates the effectiveness of his product by turning a .44 mag on his chest and firing.

Thats confidence

[Wolf]

Richard Davis, the owner of Second Chance, demonstrates the effectiveness of his product by turning a .44 mag on his chest and firing.

Thats confidence
I'm pretty sure they used an image of that as part of their advertising in gun 'zines.

[jono035]

Good on him for having faith in his product I guess... Yikes.

[Indiana_Jones]

We'll need these for when the zombies come, just in case of friendly fire in the heat of the moment

-Indy

[jono035]

We'll need these for when the zombies come, just in case of friendly fire in the heat of the moment

-Indy

You don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between regular people and zombies? Remind me to find somewhere else to hole up well outside your target range...

[Indiana_Jones]

You don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between regular people and zombies? Remind me to find somewhere else to hole up well outside your target range...

lol I didn't quite mean it like that

-Indy

[The Pastor]

You don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between regular people and zombies? Remind me to find somewhere else to hole up well outside your target range...
no doubt indy will, at some stage, break out the mosin. That is when we run.

[Indiana_Jones]

no doubt indy will, at some stage, break out the mosin. That is when we run.

You'll be too busy scratching your head wondering why your rifle isn't firing to notice me pull it out. lol

-Indy

[The Pastor]

You'll be too busy scratching your head wondering why your rifle isn't firing to notice me pull it out. lol

-Indy
not when i upgrade to a 30-30

[Wolf]

You don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between regular people and zombies? Remind me to find somewhere else to hole up well outside your target range...
Dude, some of the people I've worked with over the years you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between them and zombies...

[JDK]

there was a write up a while back about the 45/70 lever action saying some areas in the USA the cops were carrying them as all the new side beams etc etc in doors were stopping the wee .223 round also front windows the angle of them were makeing rounds bounce off them
mythbusters were are ya ..

[Mr Merde]

So does anyone know how to rip a VHS to DVD?

If so I could burn off some copies of the tape for those interested.

[Mr Merde]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5y44CdrBsfs

Check this out

[jono035]

no doubt indy will, at some stage, break out the mosin. That is when we run.

Yeah, exactly....

"Well I was pointing it at the zombies..."
"Yeah? Well how the hell did it go 45 degrees and hit Bob?!"

Chris: That's a pretty awesome video. What is the name of the VHS? Might be easier to find a copy available to download. Failing that you can rip from a VHS by hooking it straight up to a computer with a tv capture card in it. Not the best results, but reasonable. Some camcorders and DVRs will do it, too.

[Mr Merde]

Yeah, exactly....

"Well I was pointing it at the zombies..."
"Yeah? Well how the hell did it go 45 degrees and hit Bob?!"

Chris: That's a pretty awesome video. What is the name of the VHS? Might be easier to find a copy available to download. Failing that you can rip from a VHS by hooking it straight up to a computer with a tv capture card in it. Not the best results, but reasonable. Some camcorders and DVRs will do it, too.

Video is called

"Deadly Weapons"

Its pretty old (late 80's) so the quality isnt the greatest.

I also have a lot of other gun related videos I woiuld love to burn to DVD.

Engraving, chequering, building old rifles.

[jono035]

Video is called

"Deadly Weapons"

Its pretty old (late 80's) so the quality isnt the greatest.

I also have a lot of other gun related videos I woiuld love to burn to DVD.

Engraving, chequering, building old rifles.

Well there are services where you could just send them the VHS tapes and get them back on DVD but I have no idea what they cost, that'd be the best quality way.

The cheapest would be a computer and capture card, but I think that's a bit of a bastardly process...

A middle-ground way is to use a DVD recorder, most of them will let you record from AV inputs, so you plug the VCR into the DVD recorder, hit play on the VCR, record on the DVD recorder and walk away.

I'll ask around, see if anyone has one I can borrow...

[jono035]

Have found a guy here who has done that kind of thing recently. He has a USB capture unit that he hooked up to a VCR and used Windows Movie Maker to record the video as it played back. He says the quality isn't noticably different from the original footage and it's easy enough to dump it to DVD once you've done that.

I'm getting him to bring the thing in tomorrow so I can take a look.

[Wolf]

This guy looks like he's set for Zombie Apocalypse...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-j7n0AnIGM&feature=related


... as a decoy, I suspect.

A very short-lived decoy, I admit but he may just buy you time to change mags...

[Indiana_Jones]

http://www.therifleshoppe.com/hand_gonnes.htm

let's get one! lol

-Indy

[ready4whatever]

there was a write up a while back about the 45/70 lever action saying some areas in the USA the cops were carrying them as all the new side beams etc etc in doors were stopping the wee .223 round also front windows the angle of them were makeing rounds bounce off them
mythbusters were are ya ..

I thought a .223 would rip through a door no sweat. we shot up a car on the target range once. My .308 went through the side panels and into the engine pretty good. my shotgun was only good for windscreens and bonnets etc. I would of not liked to be in that car

[Wolf]

http://www.therifleshoppe.com/hand_gonnes.htm

let's get one! lol

-Indy
Cool as. Trouble is, the minute we try to import them they'll be seized as "pistols" as it's just the gonne part without the 3-6' shaft attached.

I figure, though, that it would not take a hell of a lot to make our own...

Of course, we'll have to stamp serial numbers on them and ensure the total length is A-cat.

And don't put a hole-through stock on 'em...

[SMOKEU]

I bet the VL owner wasn't none too pleased....

(Wasn't yourself, was it?)

It was my mates VL that was 1 WOF away from a scrap yard so he wanted to have a bit of fun with it...

[Wolf]

It was my mates VL that was 1 WOF away from a scrap yard so he wanted to have a bit of fun with it...
When he disposed of the wreck, did he get any embarrassing questions about how it came to be riddled with bullet holes?

[scumdog]

Got some bullets that were handed in at work, the usual mixture that gets handed in, jambed in a 'Super-Clean' box (made be Canadian Industries Limited a long time ago)

I thought the 22 magnum cartridge looked a tad fat and the other centre-fire cartidges looked ultra-skinny.

Then the penny dropped - the magnum was actaully a .25 long and the 'skinny' cartidges were some sort of 'rook-rifle' cartridges, about .20 to .22 calibre, I'll get the magnifying glass out and give 'em a going over.

Meanwhile back to my bourbon...

[jono035]

Got some bullets that were handed in at work, the usual mixture that gets handed in, jambed in a 'Super-Clean' box (made be Canadian Industries Limited a long time ago)

I thought the 22 magnum cartridge looked a tad fat and the other centre-fire cartidges looked ultra-skinny.

Then the penny dropped - the magnum was actaully a .25 long and the 'skinny' cartidges were some sort of 'rook-rifle' cartridges, about .20 to .22 calibre, I'll get the magnifying glass out and give 'em a going over.

Meanwhile back to my bourbon...

Random... be interesting to know what you find...

[Kickaha]

Meanwhile back to my bourbon...

And what about that "other rifle" you couldn't sort out the other day :lol:

[scumdog]

And what about that "other rifle" you couldn't sort out the other day :lol:

Sussed that out - had none of the 'proper' cartidges, the ones that fitted the magazine.

Dunno what the other ones were for.

It's a wonder we were not all killed with my 'helpful' workmates waving that lethal weapon around...hehehe!

[JDK]

think alot of the rounds are for quick expanding so alot just blow to bits hitting insides of doors etc etc 405 Gr from a 45/70 ummmmmmm lets a lot of air in

[sAsLEX]

The box o' truth website has a few interesting tests involving vehicles, mostly aimed towards typical 'what-if' scenarios such as should you try use a car or car door as cover if needed, how you should compensate your aim if you have to fire out through a windscreen, that kind of thing. Interesting stuff.


to fire through glass -


So what do we do? Probably the single biggest problem is the actual bullet construction of the Sierra Match King bullet, and the easiest way to improve that is to use a different bullet. The FBI determined that the best performing bullet AT THAT TIME was the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullet built by Speer Bullets. This bullet has a fusion bonded core, solid copper shank and a thicker wall to help keep the bullet intact when passing through tissue, and glass barriers in this case.

Use the appropriate bullet!



http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3958456/Deadly_Weapons__Firearms_and_Firepower

DL this now will report if it is the right movie.

[sAsLEX]

DL this now will report if it is the right movie.

Just watched the start, it is in a funny .rv format but I had a player that supports.

There is a chap in a blue suit with a slug talking about different bullets a couple minutes in, is this the flick Chris?


If so I can burn a few copies to bring/

[jono035]

to fire through glass -
Use the appropriate bullet!

Definitely, I think they were talking about shifting points of aim, though.

So with those 2 things combined, you should be sweet!

[Indiana_Jones]

This thread is so cool

-Indy

[Swoop]

19 November, 2009: Rural blacksmiths in Africa and South Asia are increasingly producing guns as a profitable addition to their usual farm implements and spare parts for vehicles and machines. These areas have been producing iron implements for over two thousand years, but in the last decade the production of cheap pistols and shotguns has mushroomed. These weapons compete on price with more sophisticated factory made guns. In rural areas, the weapons are handy for hunting, or just keeping the local predators at bay. In urban areas, these weapons have produced growing incidents of armed robbery. Criminals have found that a firearm is much more effective than a knife for this sort of thing. Blacksmiths, especially those out in the countryside, have found police attention rare, and customers (often from urban areas) abundant. These crude guns are the highest profit items these smiths can produce.
For example, India has a growing problem with homemade pistols ("kattas") and shotguns (big kattas) showing up in remote, often very poor, areas. These weapons can be made from many common forms of steel pipe, and improvised firing mechanisms (that hit the bit of sensitive explosive at the center of the rear of the cartridge, which ignites the propellant in the cartridge and fires the bullet or shotgun pellets out the smooth bore barrel).

The easiest weapon to make is basically a single shot pistol firing a .410 (10.4mm) or 20 gauge (15.6mm) shotgun shell. Accurate enough for something within 5-10 feet. Not much good for hunting. These cost $20-$50 each in most parts of the world. The next step up, which requires an experienced metal worker and some machine shop tools, is full size (or sawed off) shotgun (single or double barrel), that sells for $80-$300. These can be used for hunting. These craftsmen can also make 9mm pistols (single shot or revolvers) for $50-$600. These weapons, because they are firing a more powerful cartridge, are more dangerous to use, because they are prone to exploding, rather than firing, when the trigger is pulled.

Ironically, people out in the countryside, where there are still dangerous animals that a gun can protect a village from, have fewer firearms. That's because there's more money, more to steal, and more demand for weapons in the cities.

In some parts of the world, like Ghana, the metal working center of Akwa, in Nigeria, and the Pushtun tribal territories of Pakistan and Afghanistan, there are craftsmen who can reproduce just about any modern firearm. The Ghana, Akwa and Pushtun tribesmen have been making metal weapons for over a thousand years, and quickly applied their skills to firearms when they first encountered Europeans using them.

With all these homemade weapons, the key ingredient is ammunition. The cartridges are more difficult to manufacture than the guns, since it involves chemistry, as well as metal working and fabrication. But ammo is easier to smuggle, and once you have that, there are metal working craftsmen in most parts of the world who can figure out how to build a weapon that will fire the bullets.

For over a century now, factory made rifles have been getting into these remote areas. This hurt the market for the high-end handmade weapons, but the cheaper stuff still sold. This is still the case, even with the flood of cheap AK-47s that poured into Afghanistan (starting the 1980s) and Africa (after the Cold War ended in 1991). Again, the cheap pistols and small shotguns were still popular with criminals, especially young guys just starting out. In rural India, communist rebels and political thugs often use these weapons, in addition to factory made pistols and rifles. Again, these two groups prefer concealable weapons, and the cheap homemade stuff gets the job done inexpensively.

[Mr Merde]

19 November, 2009: Rural blacksmiths in Africa and South Asia are increasingly producing guns as a profitable addition to their usual farm implements and spare parts for vehicles and machines. These areas have been producing iron implements for over two thousand years, but in the last decade the production of cheap pistols and shotguns has mushroomed. These weapons compete on price with more sophisticated factory made guns. In rural areas, the weapons are handy for hunting, or just keeping the local predators at bay. In urban areas, these weapons have produced growing incidents of armed robbery. Criminals have found that a firearm is much more effective than a knife for this sort of thing. Blacksmiths, especially those out in the countryside, have found police attention rare, and customers (often from urban areas) abundant. These crude guns are the highest profit items these smiths can produce.
For example, India has a growing problem with homemade pistols ("kattas") and shotguns (big kattas) showing up in remote, often very poor, areas. These weapons can be made from many common forms of steel pipe, and improvised firing mechanisms (that hit the bit of sensitive explosive at the center of the rear of the cartridge, which ignites the propellant in the cartridge and fires the bullet or shotgun pellets out the smooth bore barrel).

The easiest weapon to make is basically a single shot pistol firing a .410 (10.4mm) or 20 gauge (15.6mm) shotgun shell. Accurate enough for something within 5-10 feet. Not much good for hunting. These cost $20-$50 each in most parts of the world. The next step up, which requires an experienced metal worker and some machine shop tools, is full size (or sawed off) shotgun (single or double barrel), that sells for $80-$300. These can be used for hunting. These craftsmen can also make 9mm pistols (single shot or revolvers) for $50-$600. These weapons, because they are firing a more powerful cartridge, are more dangerous to use, because they are prone to exploding, rather than firing, when the trigger is pulled.

Ironically, people out in the countryside, where there are still dangerous animals that a gun can protect a village from, have fewer firearms. That's because there's more money, more to steal, and more demand for weapons in the cities.

In some parts of the world, like Ghana, the metal working center of Akwa, in Nigeria, and the Pushtun tribal territories of Pakistan and Afghanistan, there are craftsmen who can reproduce just about any modern firearm. The Ghana, Akwa and Pushtun tribesmen have been making metal weapons for over a thousand years, and quickly applied their skills to firearms when they first encountered Europeans using them.

With all these homemade weapons, the key ingredient is ammunition. The cartridges are more difficult to manufacture than the guns, since it involves chemistry, as well as metal working and fabrication. But ammo is easier to smuggle, and once you have that, there are metal working craftsmen in most parts of the world who can figure out how to build a weapon that will fire the bullets.

For over a century now, factory made rifles have been getting into these remote areas. This hurt the market for the high-end handmade weapons, but the cheaper stuff still sold. This is still the case, even with the flood of cheap AK-47s that poured into Afghanistan (starting the 1980s) and Africa (after the Cold War ended in 1991). Again, the cheap pistols and small shotguns were still popular with criminals, especially young guys just starting out. In rural India, communist rebels and political thugs often use these weapons, in addition to factory made pistols and rifles. Again, these two groups prefer concealable weapons, and the cheap homemade stuff gets the job done inexpensively.

Didnt know about Africa. Have known for years that the Peshwar Valley in Pakistan was a major centre for arms reproduction. A friend of mine was there in the 60's and bought a couple of pistols for himself, to carry when he awas on active service in Aden.

In the US from its beginnings to early 20th century the local blacksmith was where you had your guns made or repaired.

The great firearms designer, John Moses Browning, was the son of a blacksmith and would have learnt a lot of the trade from his father.

Humans are an adaptive species. If we really need something or think we do then a means of producing that item will be developed.

This is probably why the others on this thread will eventually beat the zombies they seem so scared of. <_<

[jono035]

This is probably why the others on this thread will eventually beat the zombies they seem so scared of. <_<

If you're equipped to survive a zombie apocalypse, then you can survive pretty much anything...

"Be Prepared" - Baden Powell

[Mr Merde]

.....
"Be Prepared" - Baden Powell


Ah mmmmm

Quoting from a middle aged man whos lifetime achivement was to wander the countryside in the company of very young boys.

Not very PC of you Jono :2guns::confused::shit:

[Wolf]

Quoting from a middle aged man whos lifetime achivement was to wander the countryside in the company of very young boys.
And started the Scouts to give the boys something to occupy themselves with to dstract them from the vices of tobacco and masturbation.

Ironic, really, given that most the kids I was in Scouts with - and all our Scout leaders - were a pack of wankers.

And most the kids used to sneak off for a smoke as well.

[Wolf]

Not very PC of you Jono :2guns::confused::shit:
given your inference, wouldn't :buggerd: be more appropriate? :devil2:

[Wolf]

19 November, 2009: Rural blacksmiths in Africa and South Asia are increasingly producing guns as a profitable addition ...
I read a few years ago about Afghan craftsmen turning out very detailed and fairly good working copies of Lugers, Walthers, Colts - any firearm they could get their hands on long enough to strip down and copy.

Your post also reminds me of something I read regarding disarmament - can't recall the country or the exact figures, but the gov't passed a disarmament law calling for the surrender of all firearms and ammunition. The amount of ammunition surrendered was way disproportionate to the amount of firearms surrendered - way too low, an overall average of only a few rounds per firearm.

The book's comment was along the lines of "presumably because it is easier to make something to fire the ammunition than it is to make the ammunition."

[Drunken Monkey]

Ah mmmmm

Quoting from a middle aged man whos lifetime achivement was to wander the countryside in the company of very young boys.

Not very PC of you Jono :2guns::confused::shit:

haha, that's unfair on Powell. He did hold off the Boer for 217 days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mafeking).

[Drunken Monkey]

This thread is so cool

-Indy

As cool as Samuel L. ???

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PiuikwZvp6o&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PiuikwZvp6o&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[jono035]

Wow, that was a good reaction :D

[Indiana_Jones]

Twice as cool as that

Cool as Ice, baby

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/mini14RifleATIStock/images/5846.jpg

The new Ruger M-14\CF

<TABLE class=allModels cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=subHead>Cat. #</TD><TD class=subHead>Mod. #</TD><TD class=subHead>Capacity</TD><TD class=subHead>Weight</TD><TD class=subHead>Barrel Length</TD><TD class=subHead>Overall Length</TD><TD class=subHead>Twist</TD><TD class=subHead>Sug.
Retail</TD><TD class=subHead> </TD><TD class=subHead>Spec
Sheet</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="highlight(this); showModelImg('5846');" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e8e8e8" onmouseout=unHighlight(this);><TD>M-14/20CF</TD><TD>5846</TD><TD>20</TD><TD>7.25 lbs.</TD><TD>16.12"</TD><TD>34.00" - 37.75"</TD><TD>1:9" RH</TD><TD>$872.00</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Mr Merde]

How can this be a MSSA when it has never been issued to a military force?

[sAsLEX]

How can this be a MSSA when it has never been issued to a military force?

Of a quite worrying note is that the IDF utilised Ruger 10/22s as crowd control and then "Hush Puppy" weapons......seems I do have an MSSA?

[The Pastor]

How can this be a MSSA when it has never been issued to a military force?
what dose the 1st S stand for in MSSA?

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Military Style Semi Auto

[Indiana_Jones]

what dose the 1st S stand for in MSSA?


Military Style Semi Auto

How can one define a military style?

Any firearm is of a military style..... or sporting style, here's a crazy idea, it's the style of a fucking firearm lol.

And the MSSA 'rules' state a ‘military pattern free-standing pistol grip’ is a feature of a MSSA, not free-standing grips.

-Indy

[jono035]

How can one define a military style?

Any firearm is of a military style..... or sporting style, here's a crazy idea, it's the style of a fucking firearm lol.

And the MSSA 'rules' state a ‘military pattern free-standing pistol grip’ is a feature of a MSSA, not free-standing grips.

-Indy

Yeah, the firearm is defined by the legally laid out parameters, not by the name of the classification. The text of the particular parameter is military pattern, not military style.

[Mr Merde]

Yeah, the firearm is defined by the legally laid out parameters, not by the name of the classification. The text of the particular parameter is military pattern, not military style.

Take away the flash hider and the 20 round mag and as far as I can see it doesnt break the law as laid down.

[SMOKEU]

Does anyone here have a Mossberg Maverick 12g? Are they any good?

[Mr Merde]

Does anyone here have a Mossberg Maverick 12g? Are they any good?

Dont have one but have shot them.

Nice shotgun.

Bit light so the recoil id a little heavy but you get used to it.

Accurate and reliable. Cant go wrong.

[Indiana_Jones]

Cant go wrong.

Unless you buy a Mosin....

-Indy

[SMOKEU]

When he disposed of the wreck, did he get any embarrassing questions about how it came to be riddled with bullet holes?

Everyone who saw it had a rather strange look on their face because it appeared as if it had just come from a war zone. People were asking a lot of questions.

[Wolf]

Everyone who saw it had a rather strange look on their face because it appeared as if it had just come from a war zone. People were asking a lot of questions.
Yeah, I figured that might be the case. Mundanes get really weird when they see anything firearms-related.

[Indiana_Jones]

http://www.moviegoods.com/Assets/product_images/1020/315724.1020.A.jpg

-Indy

[Wolf]

That's bollocks, Indy, we all know that it was John Wayne acting alone that won WWII.

[The Pastor]

John Wayne's not dead - he's frozen! And when we find a cure for cancer, we're gonna thaw out the Duke and he's gonna be pretty pissed off. You know why? You ever taken a cold shower? Well, multiply that by 15 million times. That's how pissed off the Duke's gonna be.

[Wolf]

John Wayne's not dead - he's frozen! And when we find a cure for cancer, we're gonna thaw out the Duke and he's gonna be pretty pissed off. You know why? You ever taken a cold shower? Well, multiply that by 15 million times. That's how pissed off the Duke's gonna be.
This is the Duke, we're talking about - we'll thaw him out with a blow-torch and he'll come out fightin' the Good Fight...

[Wolf]

Right, which leaves Alex, DM, JRandom from last shoot, Wolf and MDU from the absentees list?

And of course the final yay or nay from hosts :p
So, how're things looking for the 5th of Dec so far as Alex, DM, Jrandom, MDU and hosts are concerned?

[sAsLEX]

So, how're things looking for the 5th of Dec so far as Alex, DM, Jrandom, MDU and hosts are concerned?

Should be fine..... though will have to buy some more ammo!

[Drunken Monkey]

fine for me. know someone else with a Dragunov and Mauser Kar98k who might be as well if that's cool with the host.

[Indiana_Jones]

fine for me. know someone else with a Dragunov and Mauser Kar98k who might be as well if that's cool with the host.

Only if I get to shoot them lol

-Indy

[The Pastor]

i saw something about a militry show by the black powder group on that day

[jono035]

Campbell live just had a segment on young shooters. Parts of it (all the indoor shots) were shot at Central Shooters last night. Pretty quick turn around really although only getting to shoot twice was pretty irritating...

Was a pretty positive sounding article all-up but apparently there is a 'have your say' bit on the campbell live website. Everyone should go post a few times, don't let it get buried by the 'zomg guns are bad' brigade...

Edit: All the reloading stuff for the .44 magnum has shown up now, so far 160 cases cleaned, resized and deprimed... going to trim them up tomorrow then make up a test set of loads with my current powder and the Hornady 240gr projectiles that I bought... Talked to a couple of scrap metal dealers in auckland, $2.50/kg for lead by the 20kg clean ingot... Should result in about 4c per 240gr bullet...

[scumdog]

Campbell live just had a segment on young shooters. Parts of it (all the indoor shots) were shot at Central Shooters last night. Pretty quick turn around really although only getting to shoot twice was pretty irritating...

Was a pretty positive sounding article all-up but apparently there is a 'have your say' bit on the campbell live website. Everyone should go post a few times, don't let it get buried by the 'zomg guns are bad' brigade...

.

I have to agree, it certainly wasn't a beat-up and the kids came across quite well too.

[ManDownUnder]

linky here (http://www.3news.co.nz/Kids-with-guns-but-safety-comes-first/tabid/817/articleID/131311/cat/221/Default.aspx)

Hit the View Video link under the photo

[jono035]

First 50 rounds for the .44 magnum reloaded. Made 5 lots of 10 running from the minimum of 7 grains up to the maximum of 10 grains... Should be fun!

Also had a quick test to make sure the bullets I have are larger than the cylinder throat, looks all good in that department.

[Mr Merde]

First 50 rounds for the .44 magnum reloaded. Made 5 lots of 10 running from the minimum of 7 grains up to the maximum of 10 grains... Should be fun!

Also had a quick test to make sure the bullets I have are larger than the cylinder throat, looks all good in that department.

I have loaded 100 rounds for the .44's

80 .44 spl and 20 .44 mag. All soft loads.

200 gn lead bullets and 5 gns of AS 30 N,

Target loads but work well in the pistols and the lever action.

This weekend i hope to load up a couple of hundred .30M1 and 200 .223.

Picking up a kilo of FFg bp next Wednesday. Will load up some more 45-70 and some BP shotgun for the coach gun.

[jono035]

I have loaded 100 rounds for the .44's

80 .44 spl and 20 .44 mag. All soft loads.

200 gn lead bullets and 5 gns of AS 30 N,

Target loads but work well in the pistols and the lever action.

This weekend i hope to load up a couple of hundred .30M1 and 200 .223.

Picking up a kilo of FFg bp next Wednesday. Will load up some more 45-70 and some BP shotgun for the coach gun.

Nice, only a kg of black though? I figured you'd be picking it up by the pallet :p

That's a neat load for the .44 but it must have the same 'drop in the bucket' characteristic that all of mine seemed to have.

Do you bother wadding them with anything or just use them as is?

[Mr Merde]

Nice, only a kg of black though? I figured you'd be picking it up by the pallet :p

That's a neat load for the .44 but it must have the same 'drop in the bucket' characteristic that all of mine seemed to have.

Do you bother wadding them with anything or just use them as is?


Wish I could afford to purchase BP in bulk.

Yes the load for the .44 is very nice. Easy on the wrist but accurate enopugh for me at the length of my range.

The powder does only seem to just cover the base of the case but I deliberately decided to attempt to replicate the balistics of BP.

MV is about 850 fps from the pistols and 1000 fps from the lever action. Pretty much what I get from my bp loads.

Its cheaper for me to train with modern powder replicating the feel of bp than to actually use the stuff. All that is missing is the smoke and flame.

[jono035]

Wish I could afford to purchase BP in bulk.

Yes the load for the .44 is very nice. Easy on the wrist but accurate enopugh for me at the length of my range.

The powder does only seem to just cover the base of the case but I deliberately decided to attempt to replicate the balistics of BP.

MV is about 850 fps from the pistols and 1000 fps from the lever action. Pretty much what I get from my bp loads.

Its cheaper for me to train with modern powder replicating the feel of bp than to actually use the stuff. All that is missing is the smoke and flame.

Ahh, of course. Do you ever have any delayed or failed ignition problems? I've heard those mentioned quite often in conjunction with low power loads for subsonic rifles etc. but don't know if it's just making a mountain out of a molehill...

What is FFg BP worth by the kg roughly?

[Mr Merde]

Ahh, of course. Do you ever have any delayed or failed ignition problems? I've heard those mentioned quite often in conjunction with low power loads for subsonic rifles etc. but don't know if it's just making a mountain out of a molehill...

What is FFg BP worth by the kg roughly?


Never had a delayed ignition. Have had failed ignition but that was usually something to do with the primers (possibily me getting stuff like oil on them)

Low power rifle rounds now I havent played around with. I have heard that when making a round subsonic that a filler should be used. I ahve also heard horror stories about people short loading the cases and having an explosion in the case instead of a controlled burn. I remember seeing a pistol in my club in Cardiff, the owner had loaded it way below the minimum spec for the powder and the resultant effect was that it blew one chamber out of the cylinder and the top strap off. Best laxitive ever

[jono035]

Never had a delayed ignition. Have had failed ignition but that was usually something to do with the primers (possibily me getting stuff like oil on them)

Low power rifle rounds now I havent played around with. I have heard that when making a round subsonic that a filler should be used. I ahve also heard horror stories about people short loading the cases and having an explosion in the case instead of a controlled burn. I remember seeing a pistol in my club in Cardiff, the owner had loaded it way below the minimum spec for the powder and the resultant effect was that it blew one chamber out of the cylinder and the top strap off. Best laxitive ever

I've seen a photo of someone doing that same thing to a revolver from a double-charge... Broken top strap, shattered cylinder which detonated 2 other rounds. Pretty damn scary looking...

Definitely underwear-replacement territory.

Edit: http://iris.nyit.edu/~bithead/anaconda/ That's the photo I was referring to...

[Mr Merde]

I've seen a photo of someone doing that same thing to a revolver from a double-charge... Broken top strap, shattered cylinder which detonated 2 other rounds. Pretty damn scary looking...

Definitely underwear-replacement territory.

Edit: http://iris.nyit.edu/~bithead/anaconda/ That's the photo I was referring to...

Yes thats what the pistol I saw looked like but in its case it was an underload.

[jono035]

Yes thats what the pistol I saw looked like but in its case it was an underload.

Chilling... Definitely staying withing manufacturer specs for min and max here, that's for sure...

It was that photo that made me think my first Dillon would be a XL650 for the extra station in the toolhead allowing a powder check die!

[Mr Merde]

Chilling... Definitely staying withing manufacturer specs for min and max here, that's for sure...

It was that photo that made me think my first Dillon would be a XL650 for the extra station in the toolhead allowing a powder check die!

As I said in my brief seminar.

The most important part of reloading in my opinion is attention to detail.

[jono035]

As I said in my brief seminar.

The most important part of reloading in my opinion is attention to detail.

Yeah, a comment that I have definitely taken to heart.

For me an extra feature like a powder check die isn't to allow less attentive reloading, more the peace of mind that there are a couple of levels of failure that have to occur before a disaster... It's the same principle used when designing the safety systems for mains-connected electronics, no single fault should ever expose the user to danger.

[JDK]

jono
have a look at trailboss powder for ya 44 mag it's a very bulky powder made for cowboy shooting to get over the light load big case probs
ADI make it or ya can get IMR (same stuff diffrent tin ) but the IMR stuff is pricey
http://www.thalesgroup.com.au/handloaders-guide/index.asp
click on single action and then single action pistol tick the "i know my arse for a hole in the ground disclamer " (or just click on pistol data and the whole list of loads are there for ADI powders

[sAsLEX]

It's the same principle used when designing the safety systems for mains-connected electronics, no single fault should ever expose the user to danger.

Its only 240 just a little tickle....... had two electric shocks at work this week I have had to deal with only 240 and both are fine.....god I hate paper work and OSH though!

[Brett]

hey if anyone can help me, I have a .22 that I would like to get from Chch to Auckland...the guy i bought it on leaves for Aussie on Tuesday and NZ Couriers wanna charge me $150 to transport the thing...it is only a Marlin 925r so hardly worth that sort of coin especially since I paid $300 for it...nearly makes it full retail new...
Any help would be appreciated. I would also be interested in anyone who could pick it up for me and hold it...I will be down that way end of next week or early the week after anyway...just bad timing!

Thanks

[sAsLEX]

hey if anyone can help me, I have a .22 that I would like to get from Chch to Auckland...the guy i bought it on leaves for Aussie on Tuesday and NZ Couriers wanna charge me $150 to transport the thing...it is only a Marlin 925r so hardly worth that sort of coin especially since I paid $300 for it...nearly makes it full retail new...
Any help would be appreciated. I would also be interested in anyone who could pick it up for me and hold it...I will be down that way end of next week or early the week after anyway...just bad timing!

Thanks

And why is that?

My rifle was $ 25 postage with NZ Couriers, no way near 150 thats for sure


and according to some its a dangerous MSSA!

[jono035]

Its only 240 just a little tickle....... had two electric shocks at work this week I have had to deal with only 240 and both are fine.....god I hate paper work and OSH though!

Depends on how you get the 'little tickle' and how long for. Hand to hand 240v is a hell of a lot more than a tickle!

Also, people tend to get a bit more picky when it comes to commercial appliances and exposure to the general public!

Edit: On a related note, the $20 1500W electric hob that I got off trade me melts lead like a champ right up to the point where the internal insulation melts and the thing lets out a big puff of smoke and trips an RCD... Good times... Bought myself an 18 kg ingot of lead to get started with, no idea what the composition of it is though, may have to try get hold of a few kgs of plumbers solder or something to alloy it with... I also need a better melting pot, the spare steel cake tin that I was mucking around with won't quite cut it for 2 litres of molten lead...

Have got a spare stainless serving spoon (one of those huge ones, probably from a barbeque tools set) to use as a ladle and a $5 muffin tray for ingot molds... should be interesting...

[sAsLEX]

Depends on how you get the 'little tickle' and how long for. Hand to hand 240v is a hell of a lot more than a tickle!


Yeah the old electricians trick of a hand for your job and a hand for your pocket is a great way to avoid throwing the current across your chest.


reminds me of how the old "L"s would check fuses by licking their fingers and running them down the panel!

[Mr Merde]

Depends on how you get the 'little tickle' and how long for. Hand to hand 240v is a hell of a lot more than a tickle!

Also, people tend to get a bit more picky when it comes to commercial appliances and exposure to the general public!

Edit: On a related note, the $20 1500W electric hob that I got off trade me melts lead like a champ right up to the point where the internal insulation melts and the thing lets out a big puff of smoke and trips an RCD... Good times... Bought myself an 18 kg ingot of lead to get started with, no idea what the composition of it is though, may have to try get hold of a few kgs of plumbers solder or something to alloy it with... I also need a better melting pot, the spare steel cake tin that I was mucking around with won't quite cut it for 2 litres of molten lead...

Have got a spare stainless serving spoon (one of those huge ones, probably from a barbeque tools set) to use as a ladle and a $5 muffin tray for ingot molds... should be interesting...

Oh you are getting the bug.

Cast iron pot and a gas cooker, lead melts somewhere around 750 degrees. Get a lead thermometer. LYMAN LADLE.

I load lead\tim mix at a 20:1 ratio sometimes 30:1. BP likes soft lead. Have used pure lead but it doesnt cast as crisp as it does with a little tin in it.

Wheel weights are good to add as is linotype. If you are going over 1700fps then look at gas checks. Get a good lube. I made my own for years out of beeswax, vegetable fat and olive oil., pan lube the rounds till you can afford a lubrisor.

Big trick is to get your mould and lead hot but not too hot. Keeping the mould hot is important.

I could go on forever.

Chris

[Brett]

And why is that?

My rifle was $ 25 postage with NZ Couriers, no way near 150 thats for sure


and according to some its a dangerous MSSA!

Not sure, the seller quoted me that figure. Based on your comment, I will get a price myself for pick up from his place.

I think he may have included insurance in those figures. Plus I think he was sending bolt, magazine and silencer separately. Will make a few calls myself tomorrow.

[Swoop]

I think he may have included insurance in those figures. Plus I think he was sending bolt, magazine and silencer separately.

Some courier companies will not handle firearms...
Best if the bolt & suppressor are boxed together, then posted to you.
The remaining item is not fireable in the event that the theiving bloody couriers take a liking to the parcel (happens more than you think).
For $150 you are being ripped off.

[jono035]

Oh you are getting the bug.

Cast iron pot and a gas cooker, lead melts somewhere around 750 degrees. Get a lead thermometer. LYMAN LADLE.

I load lead\tim mix at a 20:1 ratio sometimes 30:1. BP likes soft lead. Have used pure lead but it doesnt cast as crisp as it does with a little tin in it.

Wheel weights are good to add as is linotype. If you are going over 1700fps then look at gas checks. Get a good lube. I made my own for years out of beeswax, vegetable fat and olive oil., pan lube the rounds till you can afford a lubrisor.

Big trick is to get your mould and lead hot but not too hot. Keeping the mould hot is important.

I could go on forever.

Chris

Hmmmm, using wheel weights would be good, probably easier than getting hold of plumbers solder by the kg although pure tin would be useful to have around too. I wonder if any of the scrappies deal in that?

Going to take a crack at that lee tumble lube stuff... Apparently it works well but leaves the bullets a little bit sticky... I can live with that. Some guys talk about tumbling their rounds afterwards to get rid of it but the possibility of pulverizing the powder into something closely resembling grenade filler doesn't seem smart to me...

The 1500W electric hob melted a couple of tablespoon sized blocks of lead in about 2-3 minutes so with better insulated wire to avoid the hob going fizz again then it should do the job admirably.

Was asked today what I wanted for christmas by my girlfriend... I'm wondering if I can get away with asking for a 6 gang .44 mold, bottom pour lead pot or lubrisizer...

I grabbed one of those lee ladles because they had them sitting there for $10 in reloaders supplies and it seems like a bottom pour pot would make the entire process a lot easier in terms of controlling oxidation and casting speed...

[Mr Merde]

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http://nsanz.org.nz/yabb/Templates/Forum/default/xx.gif (http://nsanz.org.nz/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1259262262/9#9) Re: The best approach is to do nothing?
Reply #9 - Today at 10:17pm
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Jono wrote (http://nsanz.org.nz/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1259262262/0#0) on Yesterday at 8:04am:
..............Anyway, can anyone think of a good way to get across to people like this that doing nothing is never the answer? I'm sure you can provide some good examples from the UK, Chris.


Not just in the sport of firearms and shooting.

People like to keep a low profile on average. We dont like to rock the boat so we keep quiet about things we are passionate about when we should be shouting it from the rooftops.

It what makes us individuals, unique. Our dreams, hopes, aspirations and passtimes.

In todays world we have been trained to believe that we should respect everyones rights and beliefs. Therefore we are hesitant to push for our own for fear of being accused on incorrectness.

This is very predominant in our sport. We have had years of people trying to ban our sport. They claim we are annachronisms of a bygone age, we are potential killers, we are all psychopaths just waiting for the right moment to errupt. For our shame we have come to believe these in some way. We have found it easier to keep a low profile in an attempt to not attract deviseive comment.

Pistol shooting was one of the original sports of the first modern Olympics.

Shooting has been around for almost 1000 years not only for warefare but for hunting and for sport. Shooting has been such a focal part of our existance that it has spilt over to our very language. Who has never heard the expressions "flash in a pan" and "lock, stock and barrel".

We need to become more vocal about our sport. Dont hide the fact that you find enjou=yment in putting a hole in a piuece of paper at distance, or that you love to be out in the forest hunting for wild game, or that you love to smash clay pigeons with a shotgun. I never hide thea fact that I am a shooter.

2 weeks ago I was invited to give a talk to agroup of Sea Scouts. I took along a selection of my rifles and shotguns. These boys were aged between 12 and 16 years old. I was totrally unprepared and winged my talk. 1 hour later i was still fielding questions from 30 young men whilst their parents watched on. The leader of the group told me later that he had never seen them so quiet or attentive before and invited me to joine with the group at a shooting range whenever i cared to. These boys were all presented with a copy of the Firearms code that I had downloaded and printed. I hope in my way I influenced another generation of shooters.

As to the UK. After hungerford a few new groups were started. I joined one called "Shooters Rights Association", we were small but vocal when we started. We tried to join with other shooting bodies to present a combined front to the political powers. It never worked.

Then came Dunblane. There was such an outrage over this crime (and rightly so) bu twe as shooters bore the brunt of it. We were divided, we fought for our individual sports. The shotgunners didnt help the rifle men and the Olumpic stle shooters believed they were safe as they nonly used .22's so they didnt support the practical pistol shooter.
What happened?

Classic tactics, divide and rule. The government made noises to alll of the groups individually and led them to beliueve they were safe from any ban. Then they enacted draconian legislature that had been dismissed 10 years earlier as unworkable, and decimated the sporet of piustol shooting.

Their reasoning was that by getting rid of legallyu held firearms there would be no more arnmed crime. They forgot about criminals not registering their firearms.

600,000 people lost their sport. Companies went under, the buyback scheme cost the British government 1 1/2 billion pounds. People lost their livelyhood. The Olympic sport and British team now had to train in France and Sw2itzerland.

Was the governments aim achieved? No way. Armed crime in the Uk is at an all time high. Greater than that of the US per 100,000 head of population. A total failure but it got the Labour party and Tony Blair elected.

Why did all this happen? Because people were too scared of announcing to the world that they were shooters and enjoyed or partook of some shooting sport. So to answer your question, yes there are plenty of examples in the UK but I see the beginnings of the same attitudes here in NZ.

Stand up, be counted and do not be afraid to proclaim to the world that you are a shooter. There is no shame in that fact.

Support a united group that will support you and your ideals. Try and make other groups see thatr we need to unite or we will go the way of the dinosaurs.

I AM A SHOOTER and will be till the DAY THAT I DIE
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Jono check the forum, I wrote an answer you your question

Chris

[Wolf]

Wow, Jono, great stuff.

Chris, thanks for cross-posting it.

[Flip]

I have loaded and shot 44/40 with cast bullets in Lyman No5 alloy packed with black powder, tumble lubed.
The first 20 or so shot very well then the fouling seemed to loose some accuracy.

I tryed lyno and a soft lead bullet but the med hardness shot the best. They actually shot better than the smokless powder.

[Mr Merde]

I have loaded and shot 44/40 with cast bullets in Lyman No5 alloy packed with black powder, tumble lubed.
The first 20 or so shot very well then the fouling seemed to loose some accuracy.

I tryed lyno and a soft lead bullet but the med hardness shot the best. They actually shot better than the smokless powder.

It disnt supprise me tat the accuracy detriorated.
Black powder generates a lot of fouling.

The residue would have filled the grooves in the rifling and raised the pressure of the round.

As the rifling was blocked the bulletr wouldnt engage it properly and that all important spin would have been not applied properly.

Dont forget the 44-40 was designed as a BP round. It was designed for soft lead and a black powder lube.

The purpose of the lube in BP is to keep the fouling soft so that the next rpound will push th eold fouling out and lea ve fresh soft fouling in the barrel. A good isea is to check the muzzle of the barrel. If it has a fouling ring or feels wet then the lube is doing its job.

They have REDISCOVERED this fact. Something our ancestors knew. In the US they are now producing bullets that carry copious ammounts of lube, especially for black powder shooters.

Modern lube will work for a very short time then the residue in the rifling will harden. You might as well be shooting a smoothbore.

As for the hardness of the bullet. BP rounds work best with softer bullets in conjunction with a good soft lube. The bullet bumps up to enter the grooves, the powder burns and generates proper pressure down the whole barrel. If you use a hard bullet then there is no bumping up and the gases escape around the bullet as it travels down the barrel,

[The Pastor]

anyone got info on the blackpowder military show in december?

[jono035]

Wow, Jono, great stuff.

Chris, thanks for cross-posting it.

I can only take credit for the first line, everything else is Chris' writing.

Chris: Thanks a lot for writing that, we've discussed the process that happened to leave the UK where it is now a few times in person but it is nice to be able to have it written down as a reference.

[jono035]

I have loaded and shot 44/40 with cast bullets in Lyman No5 alloy packed with black powder, tumble lubed.
The first 20 or so shot very well then the fouling seemed to loose some accuracy.

I tryed lyno and a soft lead bullet but the med hardness shot the best. They actually shot better than the smokless powder.

Chris has you right on this one. I've seen a bunch of places where people have warned against using the tumble lubes for black powder, it simply isn't soft enough and you can't keep enough on the bullets.

Smokeless is a entirely different kettle of fish given that you're mostly trying to stop abrading of the projectile rather than powder fouling.

[Mr Merde]

I have been reading a lot lately about black powder and reloading.

This is mainly because I have the Springfield 1873 Cadet rifle in 45-70 an want to replicate the loads of the period.

Here a few of my findings that have supprised me and have forced me to rethink my ideas.

In the days prior to the widespread adoption of nitro powder (modern propellant) the BP produced was of a much better quality than we produce today. Our powder today would be considered inferior if it were on the 19th century market.

Primers were hotter than they are now.

The powder in a case, in particular the 45-70, was compressed far more than we do today. Modern thinking is that you compress 1/32 to 1/16th of an inch. Powder in the 45-70 round of the late 19th century was compressed between .3-.4 of an inch ( 10/32 - 15/32 of an inch) this formed the powder into a solid pellet. The hot primer caused the powder to burn faster than we have nowadays.

My particular rifle was designed with a 29 inch barrel that enabled all the powcder to be burnt in the barrel therefore there would have been very little smoke from the business end of the rifle.

Bullets were made of very soft lead. they Obturated to the barrel and created a seal that the gases released wouldnt go around therefore all the energy was used to push the bullet out.

Lube wasz very important as it keptr the fouling soft between rounds. Thre fouling didnt affect the accuracy of the bullet.

From what I have read I can use the compression easily. I need to open up the flash hole to .9mm. I shpould be using magnum primer to get the flame to distribute faster through the powder pellet. I should be getting a mould that throws a bullet with a slightly concave base that will obturate as enviaged by the designers.

All this only goes to show that the more we think we know the more we have to learn.

Just realised I have been suffering from "fat finger syndrome" and there are numerous spelling mistakes in my posts. Sorry about this but I am too lazy to spell check.

Chris

[jono035]

I have been reading a lot lately about black powder and reloading.

This is mainly because I have the Springfield 1873 Cadet rifle in 45-70 an want to replicate the loads of the period.

Here a few of my findings that have supprised me and have forced me to rethink my ideas.

In the days prior to the widespread adoption of nitro powder (modern propellant) the BP produced was of a much better quality than we produce today. Our powder today would be considered inferior if it were on the 19th century market.

Primers were hotter than they are now.

The powder in a case, in particular the 45-70, was compressed far more than we do today. Modern thinking is that you compress 1/32 to 1/16th of an inch. Powder in the 45-70 round of the late 19th century was compressed between .3-.4 of an inch ( 10/32 - 15/32 of an inch) this formed the powder into a solid pellet. The hot primer caused the powder to burn faster than we have nowadays.

My particular rifle was designed with a 29 inch barrel that enabled all the powcder to be burnt in the barrel therefore there would have been very little smoke from the business end of the rifle.

Bullets were made of very soft lead. they Obturated to the barrel and created a seal that the gases released wouldnt go around therefore all the energy was used to push the bullet out.

Lube wasz very important as it keptr the fouling soft between rounds. Thre fouling didnt affect the accuracy of the bullet.

From what I have read I can use the compression easily. I need to open up the flash hole to .9mm. I shpould be using magnum primer to get the flame to distribute faster through the powder pellet. I should be getting a mould that throws a bullet with a slightly concave base that will obturate as enviaged by the designers.

All this only goes to show that the more we think we know the more we have to learn.

Just realised I have been suffering from "fat finger syndrome" and there are numerous spelling mistakes in my posts. Sorry about this but I am too lazy to spell check.

Chris

I've been reading a lot about .44 magnum loads with cast lead bullets. The obturation issues get mentioned quite a lot. The normal advice to solve barrel leading seems to be use harder lead currently, but there are a few places I've found people suggesting the opposite. Softer lead and flat base bullet molds (hollow base would be even better) seems to be good advice for smokeless, too.

Chris: Did you see the posts a week or 2 ago suggesting the 5th as a good night to have this proposed shoot/barbeque idea?

[Mr Merde]

.....
Chris: Did you see the posts a week or 2 ago suggesting the 5th as a good night to have this proposed shoot/barbeque idea?


Missed the post but seems OK to me.

[sAsLEX]

Just realised I have been suffering from "fat finger syndrome" and there are numerous spelling mistakes in my posts. Sorry about this but I am too lazy to spell check.

Chris

Let the pedants get their knickers in a twist.

It makes interesting reading mistakes or not!

[jono035]

Missed the post but seems OK to me.

Excellent.

So far we had Indy, RM, Wolf (assuming his wheels don't fall off), Alex, DM.

Waiting on further info: MDU, JRandom

[Swoop]

Well that was a pleasant afternoon spent encouraging the next generation of potential shooters.

7,10 & 11 yr olds (1 boy, 2 girls) all did bloody well! Most impressed with their attitudes and also the abilities demonstrated.

We made up a few paper targets to get aquainted with all the procedures on our "range". Once everyone had this under control we proceded to ventilate a few milk and coke bottles filled with water. Great visual effects for instant results of accuracy.

One of the biggest steps was getting "Mum" into the swing of things... being a furvent anti-gun type. Well, what do you know!? This shooting thing can be "quite fun" and... it can be done safely! Nobody died, the world did not implode on itself, etc, etc.

Bloody big smiles on faces and a few tales to tell at school on "show and tell" day, this coming week. Spent .22 case and plastic bottle will feature prominently, I'm sure.:woohoo:

[ManDownUnder]

Excellent.

So far we had Indy, RM, Wolf (assuming his wheels don't fall off), Alex, DM.

Waiting on further info: MDU, JRandom

Sorry - I took a quick look and didn't see it - details? 5th should be ok but will need to co-ordinate with the Fun Police.

Also - whats' the name and contact details of the indorr range in the middle of Auckland under YouthTown? Spent a fund time with little Mr 9 shooting hoiles in a bit of paper.

I told him to put his computer game away... he was visibly upset... till I offered something in the real worl... like shooting. If he was willing to give it up for 24 hours I'd buy him a whole packet of .22 ammo.

Happy as a pig in poo tonight! (and that's just me...!)

[Mr Merde]

Sorry - I took a quick look and didn't see it - details? 5th should be ok but will need to co-ordinate with the Fun Police.

Also - whats' the name and contact details of the indorr range in the middle of Auckland under YouthTown? Spent a fund time with little Mr 9 shooting hoiles in a bit of paper.

I told him to put his computer game away... he was visibly upset... till I offered something in the real worl... like shooting. If he was willing to give it up for 24 hours I'd buy him a whole packet of .22 ammo.

Happy as a pig in poo tonight! (and that's just me...!)

Its amazing how such a simple sport can be so inticing to the youngsters.

You point the stick at a target, you pull the twig on the bottom and the target reacts in some way.

Doing something fun always beats playing something fun.

A box of .22 of his own. Dont tell him they come in bricks as well.

[ManDownUnder]

Its amazing how such a simple sport can be so inticing to the youngsters.

You point the stick at a target, you pull the twig on the bottom and the target reacts in some way.

Doing something fun always beats playing something fun.

A box of .22 of his own. Dont tell him they come in bricks as well.

I had a bloody misfire too - first round I put through my .22 Ears were ringing from that one! My first one... ever. Barrel was clear, shell ejected after a couple of goes ...

Held the thing at arms length and shot into the ground a few times to double checkand all was good... so I'm buggered if I know what happened

Anyway - back to Ruben... over 25m, 8 power on the scope and a bipod, shooting prone... he shot a 5 shot group of about 30mm with one flier. He got an exact bullseye too - within his first 3 shots. Little bugger!

[Wolf]

Well that was a pleasant afternoon spent encouraging the next generation of potential shooters.

7,10 & 11 yr olds (1 boy, 2 girls) all did bloody well! Most impressed with their attitudes and also the abilities demonstrated.

We made up a few paper targets to get aquainted with all the procedures on our "range". Once everyone had this under control we proceded to ventilate a few milk and coke bottles filled with water. Great visual effects for instant results of accuracy.

One of the biggest steps was getting "Mum" into the swing of things... being a furvent anti-gun type. Well, what do you know!? This shooting thing can be "quite fun" and... it can be done safely! Nobody died, the world did not implode on itself, etc, etc.

Bloody big smiles on faces and a few tales to tell at school on "show and tell" day, this coming week. Spent .22 case and plastic bottle will feature prominently, I'm sure.:woohoo:
Taliesin caused a bit of consternation at school show-and-tell after visiting Chris' place and banging off a few rounds - told them (with his fevered imagination in full swing) that he'd been shooting burglars.

Here's hoping your young charges do a better job of conveying that they were learning the safe use of firearms...

[jono035]

Sorry - I took a quick look and didn't see it - details? 5th should be ok but will need to co-ordinate with the Fun Police.

Also - whats' the name and contact details of the indorr range in the middle of Auckland under YouthTown? Spent a fund time with little Mr 9 shooting hoiles in a bit of paper.

No worries, it was just a few of us discussing whether it'd be a good date or not. How about you too, Swoop?

That range is the Central Shooters Inc. range.

www.centralshooters.co.nz

The website is pretty good in terms of info and upcoming range bookings.

When were you there? I'm normally around shooting my pistols on Tuesday nights from 7-8, normally only every second Tuesday at the moment though.

[Indiana_Jones]

Any company in NZ selling 7.62x54R brass?

And the 5th is still good for me.

Shall buy/make more wonderful 7.62x54R lol

-Indy

[Swoop]

No worries, it was just a few of us discussing whether it'd be a good date or not. How about you too, Swoop?
Cheers for the invite. Rather busy at this time of year, unfortunately.:cry:

[jono035]

Any company in NZ selling 7.62x54R brass?

And the 5th is still good for me.

Shall buy/make more wonderful 7.62x54R lol

-Indy

Just ring around the usual places and ask about both brass and brass-cased rounds. Try Reloaders Supplies, Serious Shooters and SAI, surely between those 3 places they must have something...

[Wolf]

Well if it's going to be the 5th it's shaping up for a good weekend for me.

Looking forward to meeting everyone - especially after the disappointment of the previous attempt.

What time and what do we need to bring along - other than firearms and ammo?

[The Pastor]

Well if it's going to be the 5th it's shaping up for a good weekend for me.

Looking forward to meeting everyone - especially after the disappointment of the previous attempt.

What time and what do we need to bring along - other than firearms and ammo?
beer and bbq supplies.

[Wolf]

Sounds good to me. I have to be back in Hamilton by Sunday morning but I have nothing else on for the 5th. That gives me the whole Saturday to have fun.

[Wolf]

Just to be on the safe side, anyone else heading to Chris' place from Hamilton (or passing through) that I can call in the event of things turning to custard again?

[Mr Merde]

http://www.modelguns-worldwide.com/

Check this site out

[nseagoon]

anyone else have an interest in Russian firearms?

I have a genuine SVD Dragunov and the Russian service pistol.

and assorted other firearms.

I know a few possible contacts in regards to barnaul and other Russian Ammunition.

[Mr Merde]

anyone else have an interest in Russian firearms?

I have a genuine SVD Dragunov and the Russian service pistol.

and assorted other firearms.

I know a few possible contacts in regards to barnaul and other Russian Ammunition.


Talk to Indiana.

[Swoop]

anyone else have an interest in Russian firearms?
Welcome, Neddie!!

[Indiana_Jones]

anyone else have an interest in Russian firearms?

I have a genuine SVD Dragunov and the Russian service pistol.

and assorted other firearms.

I know a few possible contacts in regards to barnaul and other Russian Ammunition.

mmmmm SVD

PICS!

:D

-Indy

[jono035]

Well, that's 200 rounds of 9mm loaded and I'm going to finally test out my .44mag hand loads tomorrow at the range. Once I have a better idea of what is a good fit for the pistol I'll load up a heap of those and be good to go.

Doing secret santa with Lisa's family (shudder) and she drew her step-dad. She has no idea what to get him so I'm getting him one of those slip-on PVC suppressors on her behalf. Had to get him to measure his barrel diameter but he seems stoked, hows that for a kick-ass present? Sure as hell beats pumice hand-cleaner.

Edit: The guy that I bought the suppressor off on trademe offered to send 1 of each of the different sizes and then I could send back the one that didn't fit, very impressed. jimbo26 is the guys username, ".22 Calibre Push On Silencer/Moderator". Will give it a try and see how good it is.

[nseagoon]

I'll chuck pics up some time when able.
Great piece of kit. Got a 5 round 1" grouping at 200m (once)
and I'll hope to get into 3 gun and Practical shooting.

anyone here part of IMAS?

[jono035]

Any company in NZ selling 7.62x54R brass?

And the 5th is still good for me.

Shall buy/make more wonderful 7.62x54R lol

-Indy

Just had a look on Tardeme and there is a guy selling packs of 100 new unprimed brass for $160 and one of the sizes listed is 7.62x54R.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Accessories/Other/auction-257236723.htm

The guy listing it is trademe username "wchapman" who runs Magnum Imports <magnumimports@paradise.net.nz>. I've bought primers from him before, seems pretty good.

[Indiana_Jones]

Just had a look on Tardeme and there is a guy selling packs of 100 new unprimed brass for $160 and one of the sizes listed is 7.62x54R.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Accessories/Other/auction-257236723.htm

The guy listing it is trademe username "wchapman" who runs Magnum Imports <magnumimports@paradise.net.nz>. I've bought primers from him before, seems pretty good.

Thanks a lot Jono.

$160/70 for 100? good deal?

-Indy

[Swoop]

I'm getting him one of those slip-on PVC suppressors on her behalf. Had to get him to measure his barrel diameter but he seems stoked, hows that for a kick-ass present?

".22 Calibre Push On Silencer/Moderator". Will give it a try and see how good it is.
What rifle is it going onto?
I use one on the 10/22 and it works bloody well. Had it on during the kid's shoot on Sunday. Really handy for when I needed to be alongside "assisting" the weight of the fore-end.:whistle:

anyone here part of IMAS?
I was a member for about 12yrs. Currently non-financial though.
They still meeting at Jack Dickey Hall?

[jono035]

Swoop - old .22 bolt action. Mostly used for bunny shooting late at night or early in the morning, so I figure the neighbours at least will appreciate it...

Indy - No idea, pistol brass is more like $50 for 100 so that seems pretty damn steep to me, but I don't have a handle on what rifle brass is worth.

I'd be seriously looking for some boxes of brass-cased rounds at that price.

I e-mailed the guy asking and he said he has some on back order, coming from the states.

[Mr Merde]

sAsALEX

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Ammunition/auction-256583059.htm

Dummy 38-40 rounds.
cases with bullets

no powder or primer

16 of them.

opening bid $15 hits reserve.

pull the bullets and you have more reloading components

[Wolf]

sAsALEX

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Ammunition/auction-256583059.htm

Dummy 38-40 rounds.
cases with bullets

no powder or primer

16 of them.

opening bid $15 hits reserve.

pull the bullets and you have more reloading components


In very good condition

NO firearms licence required to purchase
But Tardme still expects you to supply a valid licence nomber to ask questions - so I'd presume bidding is also restricted.

[sAsLEX]

But Tardme still expects you to supply a valid licence nomber to ask questions - so I'd presume bidding is also restricted.

used a fake number last time no worries .

[Mr Merde]

The NSA

There seems to be a growing idea that the NSA should, on winning our court case and receiving a favourable ruling from the judge, take out a large advert in ythe national papers.

Two reasons for this one official and my personal reason'

1) To let the shooters in NZ know who we are, how to join and what we have done

2) And this is my own personal reason, to rub the powers that think they control us collective noses in the crap of their own making.

Those of you already members join the thread and if I dare suggest it, support this move. Save our Butts thread in legal.

Those of you who arent members go to [URL="http://www.nsanz.org.nz"/URL] and check out what we have been up to

Chris

[jono035]

There is a guy listing an M1 Garand on gunstuff... Except for the fact that he erroneously calls the en bloc clips "stripper clips" it looks pretty good... best part of $3k though, yikes.

[Indiana_Jones]

Just made up about 25 rounds of 7.62x54R, while enjoying some Lamb's rum (treated myself seeing it is my birthday)

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

Just made up about 25 rounds of 7.62x54R, while enjoying some Lamb's rum (treated myself seeing it is my birthday)

-Indy


Happy birthaday young man.

Dont get pissed and reload.

1 at a time please.

[Indiana_Jones]

Happy birthaday young man.

Dont get pissed and reload.

1 at a time please.

Cheers,

And when I say "enjoying a drink" I meant in the English way, as in having a tumbler of rum, not the Kiwi meaning of "half a bottle in 30mins" lol

....And one at a time.......does it matter what order? lol

-Indy

[jono035]

...not the Kiwi meaning of "half a bottle in 30mins" lol

?? I don't see the point otherwise!

Happy birthday mate.

Good work on the 25x 7.62x54R... (I just made up 150x .44 magnum rounds *cough*)

[Indiana_Jones]

?? I don't see the point otherwise!

Happy birthday mate.

Good work on the 25x 7.62x54R... (I just made up 150x .44 magnum rounds *cough*)

lol I would of made more, but havn't got anymore cases yet.

Anyways it's cheaper to buy the shit over the counter lol

-Indy

[jono035]

lol I would of made more, but havn't got anymore cases yet.

Anyways it's cheaper to buy the shit over the counter lol

-Indy

Really? Whats the cost per round for assembled ammo vs primers/powder/projectile?

[Indiana_Jones]

Really? Whats the cost per round for assembled ammo vs primers/powder/projectile?

Depends on how many times you use the case and how much they cost

Say $150 for 100 cases, $1.50 a case
$60 for 100 projectiles, 0.60c a projectile
$10 for 100 primers, 0.10c a primer
$70 for I can't remember how much powder so I'll leave that one out

So that's at least $2.20 a round for the 1st go, but by the 5th you'd be making your money back

Over the counter it's around $1 each, maybe less or more, depends what you get and where.

-Indy

[jono035]

Depends on how many times you use the case and how much they cost

Say $150 for 100 cases, $1.50 a case
$60 for 100 projectiles, 0.60c a projectile
$10 for 100 primers, 0.10c a primer
$70 for I can't remember how much powder so I'll leave that one out

So that's at least $2.20 a round for the 1st go, but by the 5th you'd be making your money back

Over the counter it's around $1 each, maybe less or more, depends what you get and where.

-Indy

That'll be 500 grams or 1lb (454g) of powder most likely. If you're loading 45 grains then thats 3 grams or 170 loads per container for $0.41 each... Yeah I can see where this is going wrong :P

For case costs I just assume that I'll be able to reload the case a number of times and then divide the cost over that, so assuming 10 reloads per case thats $0.15 extra per round. Don't know if that is reasonable for rifles but we'll assume you're loading lightly and not stressing the hell out of the cases...

So yeah,

$1.25 per round by my figuring...

I guess I'm a hell of a lot better off with pistol reloading because I've been buying everything in bulk... 2kg of powder, projectiles 1k at a time, primers 1k at a time etc. Not to mention with simpler projectiles and less powder, more of the cost of the round lives in the brass.

The cases and primers aren't worth worrying about, the big costs are the powder at 40c and projectile at 60c... The powder doesn't get all that much cheaper in bulk really, maybe 10-15% cheaper, so only a 5c per round saving. I'd be seriously looking for somewhere to get cheaper projectiles... Have you seen anything online about people shooting gas checked lead projectiles?

[Wolf]

Well, the weather looks like its fining up on Saturday 5th so the burning question is:

Is the shoot/barbecue on?

What say our hosts?

[Drunken Monkey]

Depends on how many times you use the case and how much they cost

Say $150 for 100 cases, $1.50 a case
$60 for 100 projectiles, 0.60c a projectile
$10 for 100 primers, 0.10c a primer
$70 for I can't remember how much powder so I'll leave that one out

So that's at least $2.20 a round for the 1st go, but by the 5th you'd be making your money back

Over the counter it's around $1 each, maybe less or more, depends what you get and where.

-Indy

And that's assuming your spare time isn't worth anything...

[Mr Merde]

Well, the weather looks like its fining up on Saturday 5th so the burning question is:

Is the shoot/barbecue on?

What say our hosts?

Its on,

Bring what you need.

Let Mars rule the day

[jono035]

And that's assuming your spare time isn't worth anything...

Very true, but that gets to be a fuzzy area.

I enjoy my time spent reloading, which is probably why I've done so much of it so far. For me I am also in a situation where I have very limited income currently (studentness) with no hope of being able to earn any extra (student allowance) and more spare time than I would while working.

It is good to make sure that you get good 'value' out of your time, but bear in mind that spending less money is effectively untaxed income. You also have to be realistic about how much extra money you could actually earn in your spare time. Second job gets taxed quite a lot and may require a big block of extra time, rather than an hour per weekend. Longer hours at your current job may not be possible or may get to be frustrating/tedious which will not represent good value to you or your employer. All of these things will also be a fixed time commitment and will most likely be completely inflexible.

Reloading is good for me because I can do it whenever I want, I can listen to music or have the TV on in the background while reloading, it is effectively untaxed income and chiefly because I enjoy the process of it and look at it more as an extension of my primary passtime, rather than a way to simply save money.

You have to realistically ask what you would be doing with that time otherwise. I don't watch TV at all and I feel my life has improved dramatically because of it. I also rarely watch movies without doing something else at the same time and there are reloading processes that would fit that perfectly.

Rant over.

Edit: To be honest I think that if I had kept my shooting at the same levels as before I was reloading, it would probably work out to be a good value use of my time, anyway. $0.21 vs $0.70 for 9mm and $0.50 vs $1.50 for .44 magnum, reloading 50 rounds saves me $25 for 9mm and $50 for .44 magnum, if I can reload 50 rounds in an hour then I'm better off doing that than working for $38 an hour given my working tax bracket.

[Wolf]

Its on,

Bring what you need.

Let Mars rule the day

yeeeeeee-fuckin'-haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! :wari: :Punk: :banana: :rockon: :ar15:

There'd better not be any more raruraru with my motupaika or I'm going to have a conniption.

[The Pastor]

i'll bring some steak, some shottie ammo some shotties and some clays

[jono035]

Food, firearms, ammo and maybe a few items to shoot at.

Clays sound like a heap of fun. Might grab a box of shells and some clays myself if I can get my hands on a loaner shotgun.

I've got a nice big cache of ammo built up as well and will be careful not to succumb to some of the problems of the last outing... (i.e. I'll re-attach the front sight this time...)

[Wolf]

Very true, but that gets to be a fuzzy area.

I enjoy my time spent reloading, which is probably why I've done so much of it so far. For me I am also in a situation where I have very limited income currently (studentness) with no hope of being able to earn any extra (student allowance) and more spare time than I would while working.

It is good to make sure that you get good 'value' out of your time, but bear in mind that spending less money is effectively untaxed income. You also have to be realistic about how much extra money you could actually earn in your spare time. Second job gets taxed quite a lot and may require a big block of extra time, rather than an hour per weekend. Longer hours at your current job may not be possible or may get to be frustrating/tedious which will not represent good value to you or your employer. All of these things will also be a fixed time commitment and will most likely be completely inflexible.

Reloading is good for me because I can do it whenever I want, I can listen to music or have the TV on in the background while reloading, it is effectively untaxed income and chiefly because I enjoy the process of it and look at it more as an extension of my primary passtime, rather than a way to simply save money.

You have to realistically ask what you would be doing with that time otherwise. I don't watch TV at all and I feel my life has improved dramatically because of it. I also rarely watch movies without doing something else at the same time and there are reloading processes that would fit that perfectly.

Rant over.

Edit: To be honest I think that if I had kept my shooting at the same levels as before I was reloading, it would probably work out to be a good value use of my time, anyway.
Also, if you derive enjoyment from it in some way then you're effectively doing something that you'd consider doing with your spare time anyway - it all boils down to whether your attitude is "fuck, what a cunt of a week, I'm gonna do some reloading to unwind" or "oh, fuck, I've got a major shoot on this weekend, I suppose I should get off my arse and reload some ammo before then."

And if you enjoy doing it and would "do it for shits 'n' giggles" or to relax anyway, then you get the factor of "How much would you be paying to destress or enjoy yourself at other hobbies/passstimes to occupy the hours you typically spend reloading?" How much would it cost you in fuel to get there?

People shell out a fortune to go places, use equipment, get massages or stress therapy, rent a cabin, visit the beach, go trout fishing, whatever. If you're getting the same pay-off just sitting at home engaging in a hobby that doesn't cost as much - and has incidental benefits of saving money for one of your other hobbies - you're ahead of the game.

Confucius reckonned that if you have a job you enjoy doing, you will never "work" a day of your life.

[Drunken Monkey]

Rant over.

It's hardly a rant, they are all valid points. If you have a lot of free time, DIY is both good value and rewarding in other ways, there's no doubting that. I shot more rounds that weekend than all rounds fired in the 2 years previous (and about the same as the whole year 3 years ago). So for casual shooting it's a no brainer, buy off the shelf. My understanding is for professional hunters (e.g. people shooting 5 days a week) it's a no brainer, you will save by reloading.
Then you've got all the rare stuff that Mr Merde shoots, even if he had the cash to blow on ammo, I imagine finding off the shelf black powder ammo is a hit and miss affair.

[jono035]

Also, if you derive enjoyment from it in some way then you're effectively doing something that you'd consider doing with your spare time anyway - it all boils down to whether your attitude is "fuck, what a cunt of a week, I'm gonna do some reloading to unwind" or "oh, fuck, I've got a major shoot on this weekend, I suppose I should get off my arse and reload some ammo before then."

And if you enjoy doing it and would "do it for shits 'n' giggles" or to relax anyway, then you get the factor of "How much would you be paying to destress or enjoy yourself at other hobbies/passstimes to occupy the hours you typically spend reloading?" How much would it cost you in fuel to get there?

People shell out a fortune to go places, use equipment, get massages or stress therapy, rent a cabin, visit the beach, go trout fishing, whatever. If you're getting the same pay-off just sitting at home engaging in a hobby that doesn't cost as much - and has incidental benefits of saving money for one of your other hobbies - you're ahead of the game.

Confucius reckonned that if you have a job you enjoy doing, you will never "work" a day of your life.

Yeah, certainly. If it got to the point where I couldn't be bothered reloading and had the money I'd just say screw it, buy the ammo and shoot less of it. At the moment it is spending an hour or two out in the shed listening to music with the cat to keep my company in the evening rather than playing computer games or watching a movie while browsing forums and other websites. To be honest if I was browsing the web then chances are it would be for reloading information anyway :laugh:

At the moment I was champing at the bit to get my hand-loads of .44 magnum fired because I wanted to see how they turned out. They were all good so I chose a load that was about 5-10% down from max loads with that bullet and loaded all 150 cases that I had. Took about an hour and a half using cases already cleaned/deprimed/trimmed.

[Indiana_Jones]

I'm in Chris

Shall take one or two mosins and the .22 BSA. Along with grog and food.

-Indy

[Drunken Monkey]

What's the shot type for clays? No 7's or similar? 00 ?? (lol)

[jono035]

It's hardly a rant, they are all valid points. If you have a lot of free time, DIY is both good value and rewarding in other ways, there's no doubting that. I shot more rounds that weekend than all rounds fired in the 2 years previous (and about the same as the whole year 3 years ago). So for casual shooting it's a no brainer, buy off the shelf. My understanding is for professional hunters (e.g. people shooting 5 days a week) it's a no brainer, you will save by reloading.
Then you've got all the rare stuff that Mr Merde shoots, even if he had the cash to blow on ammo, I imagine finding off the shelf black powder ammo is a hit and miss affair.

That was definitely a rant. I very rarely pass up the opportunity to use 100 words when 10 would do :D

You are quite right that occaisional shooting with common rounds wouldn't benefit from the savings of reloading, especially considering the relatively high up-front cost if you want to get fully set up (around $800 in my case). In that case the only advantage would be quality of the ammunition produced, which in a Mosin means sweet f-a.

The cheapness of the 9mm when I started shooting was what discouraged me from reloading for so long. I was also looking at the highest priced reloading equipment. It wasn't until I talked to Chris about getting started on a $250 Lee kit that it started to make sense and everything went from there.

Edit: 9mm ammo price damn near doubling sped things along, as did becoming aware of the possibility of using plain lead projectiles and the plans to buy a larger calibre pistol.

[jono035]

What's the shot type for clays? No 7's or similar? 00 ?? (lol)

I vote for 00, that sounds like fun :D

[Mr Merde]

What's the shot type for clays? No 7's or similar? 00 ?? (lol)

If you can hit clays with 00's then I'm not going up against you.

I find #7's are good. There is about 230 pellets in a 1 1/8 load.

00 there are 9.

[Mr Merde]

Havent been able to lay my hands on a thrower yet.

RM you wouldnt mind standing in front of us and chucking them into the air, would you?

[Drunken Monkey]

Now see if we had time we could have combined the firearm thread enthusiasm with a medieval weapons thread and build our own ballistae or trebuchet to throw our clays - double the fun!

[The Pastor]

havent been able to lay my hands on a thrower yet.

Rm you wouldnt mind standing in front of us and chucking them into the air, would you?
no problem

[Wolf]

I've got friends into medieval enactment - they can't supply a ballista or trebuchet but we might be able to get RM a steel helm and breastplate for when he's out in front of everyone throwing the clays...

[Drunken Monkey]

The difference between artists and engineers:
Artists do medieval re-enactment so they can dress up.
Engineers do it so they can build cool shit and knock other stuff down.

The more I think about this, the more I think building a small scale clay bird throwing tebuchet sounds like a good way to spend a weekend...

[Wolf]

The difference between artists and engineers:
Artists do medieval re-enactment so they can dress up.
Engineers do it so they can build cool shit and knock other stuff down.

The more I think about this, the more I think building a small scale clay bird throwing tebuchet sounds like a good way to spend a weekend...
I do it so I can dress up and use cool shit to knock other stuff down.

That's also why I like the blackpowder club - dress up and use cool shit to shoot stuff.

[The Pastor]

I dress up every Tuesdays as its lady's night at the bar and ladies get half price drinks!

[jono035]

I dress up every Tuesdays as its lady's night at the bar and ladies get half price drinks!

You can drop the 'half price drinks' excuse, we're all friends here...

Building a standard target thrower would be pretty easy, but then again throwers are pretty cheap, $100 for a cheapy...

Indy: Depending on barrel condition, it looks like there are quite a few people who fire cast bullets, gas checked or not in Mosins... Apparently quite a few people saying that they can get better accuracy by tailoring the projectile size to the barrel size given that it can be a bit variable.

[jono035]

Indy: Looking around the Cast Boolits forums, it would seem that there are plenty of people shooting cast bullets with gas checked up to 2000 fps and plain lead up to 1500 fps with great success... In a few of the rougher barrelled cases they recommend fire lapping, but that's a pretty simple procedure. They are also using small charges (8-14 gr) of pistol powders such as Universal or Unique (precisely the same powder as the AP70N I use in my 9mm).

If you were wanting to shoot them a fair bit, a little bit of work with choosing the pick of your selection in terms of barrel condition, slugging it to find out the size and then making some loads with pistol powders (paying careful attention to avoid overcharging) could probably get something that shoots cheap ammo better than your random military surplus stuff.

A couple of inches at 100 yards seems to be a common outcome with one guy saying his M38 stays in the black on a standard pistol target at 200m, thats about 6" diameter.

Edit: Another distinct advantage of reloads over milsurp, no corrosive primers!

[Indiana_Jones]

Indy: Looking around the Cast Boolits forums, it would seem that there are plenty of people shooting cast bullets with gas checked up to 2000 fps and plain lead up to 1500 fps with great success... In a few of the rougher barrelled cases they recommend fire lapping, but that's a pretty simple procedure. They are also using small charges (8-14 gr) of pistol powders such as Universal or Unique (precisely the same powder as the AP70N I use in my 9mm).

If you were wanting to shoot them a fair bit, a little bit of work with choosing the pick of your selection in terms of barrel condition, slugging it to find out the size and then making some loads with pistol powders (paying careful attention to avoid overcharging) could probably get something that shoots cheap ammo better than your random military surplus stuff.

A couple of inches at 100 yards seems to be a common outcome with one guy saying his M38 stays in the black on a standard pistol target at 200m, thats about 6" diameter.

Edit: Another distinct advantage of reloads over milsurp, no corrosive primers!

Good write-up Jono, cheers

and yea, the last point is a good bonus, damn salt primers!

We shall discuss more in person on Sat I believe, also how did you plan to get there? similar arrangement as last time?

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

Oh oh 5000 posts! lol

-Indy