The firearm thread

[Indiana_Jones]

im such a noob :(

Well everyone was nice a noob Scott, so don't worry.

I'm a noob too when it comes to firearms, but I'm slowly learning

Paid my $123.75 too! :clap:

-Indy

[Wolf]

im such a noob :(
Everyone is at some stage. I got my noob status with rifles out of the way when I was a tiny tot but I was fortunate enough to be raised on farms where there was always at least a .22lr and usually a "cut down" or "sporterised" .303 SMLE (Short Magazine Lee Enfield, an old military bolt action) or a double-barrelled shotgun lurking around somewhere.

Don't worry, after a while it'll all come "naturally". Depending on the path your experiences lead you down, you may learn a little or a lot.

Good on you for asking the questions and getting the advice of those who've gone before.

You will find a .22 bolt action a great starting point and will most likely find you'll keep it unless you find another .22 that better suits your (future) needs - any larger calibre weapons you get are likely to be additions to your "arsenal" - for the times when the .22lr is not suitable. In the meantime you'll learn a lot about accuracy and weapon-handling that will stand you in excellent stead for any calibre weapon (at minimal initial outlay and minimal ammo cost.)

You're taking the course that will maximise your enjoyment of the sport by enabling you to get a feel for it and gain the skills without breaking the bank or becoming frustrated in the process.

There was a bloke I knew who was always wanting a "more powerful" weapon - bow, rifle etc - in order to "hit the target" - when he could not even fire a .22lr or a 30-lb bow accurately (there was a woman at the archery club who had difficulty managing the draw weight of a 30-lb bow and was shifted to a 15-lb bow then promptly caught up with, and surpassed, the rest of the class who were using the club's 30lb bows). He'd be the sort of person to go out and buy several thousand dollars worth of .300 Winchester Magnum rifle and then bitch and whinge that it's not "powerful enough" to hit the target accurately - because he'd never pay out for enough .300WM ammo to get accurate with the brute.

Meanwhile a "noob" like you with a cheap Norinco Brno-clone and a couple of bricks* of .22lr hollowpoint will be well on your way towards shooting the pips out of raspberries at 25 yards. And a few months down the track you could pick up a .300WM and show that other bloke exactly how accurate it can be - it'd take very little to "cross over".

* Brick = 10 boxes of .22lr ammo bundled together = 500 rounds.

[The Pastor]

I found this page http://www.outdoorsupplies.co.nz/Rimfire.html#Norinco

There is the JW-15A .22 bolt action Package Deal Only $276

But then i saw down a little bit, JW-23 .22Mag Bolt action $270

It says the 23 is more suited to longer distances, I think I might go for that one. The prices look to me to be very good!

[jrandom]

But then i saw down a little bit, JW-23 .22Mag Bolt action $270

It says the 23 is more suited to longer distances, I think I might go for that one. The prices look to me to be very good!

My advice would be, stick with a .22LR.

I've shot the JW23 (a friend has one). Nice little rifle, but trust me, you don't want the magnum to start with, you want a standard .22LR. The magnum rimfire round is louder (a LOT louder), more expensive to feed, and has a reputation for inferior accuracy (although I haven't observed that personally - it's probably just an urban legend borne of the fact that .22 Magnum rifles tend to be cheap plinkers).

Don't ignore the huge advantage of being able to slap on a suppressor on a .22LR and shoot subsonic ammunition absolutely silently in your backyard - you'll never manage that with a .22 Magnum.

[scumdog]

I found this page http://www.outdoorsupplies.co.nz/Rimfire.html#Norinco

There is the JW-15A .22 bolt action Package Deal Only $276

But then i saw down a little bit, JW-23 .22Mag Bolt action $270

It says the 23 is more suited to longer distances, I think I might go for that one. The prices look to me to be very good!

True re the distance thing- but how often do you really need that extra distance? and do a cost comparison for the ammo.
The 15A would be my choice for a first rifle, accurate enough and affordable to run - especially if you want to do a lot of target/practice shooting.

[Indiana_Jones]

I too shall have to get a .22.

Lever or Bolt action.

Lever looks cool lol

Too many Westerns for Indy

-Indy

[The Pastor]

I Could actually get both and only (just) be over my budget....

being the noob i'll take ur advice and get the jw15

[Mr Merde]

'Long Rifle'.

......Rimfire type cartridges used to be much more prevalent back in the Good Old Days. There were some seriously fat rimfire calibres. I suspect Mr Merde or one of the other history buffs will be able to add some detail to that comment.

Unfortunately, most of those calibres have fallen by the wayside, leaving .22 Long Rifle as the only common rimfire calibre, along with new designs like the .17HMR (Hornady Magnum Rimfire).

I thank you for your confidence.

For anyone interested the .22 was the first round developed as a cartridge.

About 1850 by Messers Smith and Wesson.

There have been many calibers since and most of them have gone the way of the dinosaurs.

I have a rifle in my collection that is .56 rimfire.

Just another little piece of infomation. If you look at the headstamp of a .22 and it has a letter H on the back this is n honour of Henry B Tyler.

As another note. I notice a little way back people were talking about hunting possums at night. You were talking about spotlighting for them and firing multiple shots.

Go back to the Firearms Code book and the rules for attaining a rifle licence in NZ.

Note that it states specifically that it is against the law to fire a gun at night time. How does that fit in with possum hunting?
How many of you have broken the law by taking bunnies etc at night. Never really been explained to me.

[doc]

As another note. I notice a little way back people were talking about hunting possums at night. You were talking about spotlighting for them and firing multiple shots.

Go back to the Firearms Code book and the rules for attaining a rifle licence in NZ.

Note that it states specifically that it is against the law to fire a gun at night time. How does that fit in with possum hunting?
How many of you have broken the law by taking bunnies etc at night. Never really been explained to me.

It was self defence

[Mr Merde]

In response to RM and all you others I would definitely go for the JW15.

I have one and it shoots remarkably well. Fit a decent suppressor and you have a real quiet bunny or possum buster.

Sighted it in for 25 meters and can take beer cans at 100 meters everytime.

Taken its fair share of possums etc as well as a turkey or two as well.

Problem is I dropped the damm thing and the cheap woodwork split . I need to glue and pin it to make it a shooter again.

[sAsLEX]

Go back to the Firearms Code book and the rules for attaining a rifle licence in NZ.

Note that it states specifically that it is against the law to fire a gun at night time. How does that fit in with possum hunting?
How many of you have broken the law by taking bunnies etc at night. Never really been explained to me.

It states:

only shoot at night if you are certain it is safe to do so. Spotlights only light up a small part of the firing zone and the projectiles range. It is forbidden to shoot during the hours of darkness in any state forest, forest park or national park.




So only in the parks is it wrong.

[The Pastor]

are you sure about the night time shooting? I can't find it anywhere in the arms code?

[Mr Merde]

It was self defence

Brilliant.

As Monty Python said "Take thee thy Holy Hand grenade"

All in defence from the white bunny

[Swoop]

I seem to remember, some time back, that NZ Guns magazine took a "cheapo" .22lr rifle and did a few simple modifications to it. Bedding the action, trigger job, etc and the difference it made was surprising for the "type" of gun it was purported to be.
Quite interesting.

[The Pastor]

In response to RM and all you others I would definitely go for the JW15.

I have one and it shoots remarkably well. Fit a decent suppressor and you have a real quiet bunny or possum buster.

Sighted it in for 25 meters and can take beer cans at 100 meters everytime.

Taken its fair share of possums etc as well as a turkey or two as well.

Problem is I dropped the damm thing and the cheap woodwork split . I need to glue and pin it to make it a shooter again.


Refer to rule seven in the arms code
"avoid alcohol and drugs while handling firearms" :Pokey:

[Mr Merde]

Refer to rule seven in the arms code
"avoid alcohol and drugs while handling firearms" :Pokey:

Empty cans that remain after a good party make a real good target. Fill them with water and watch the power a .22 really has.

If you want a good target. Get a Milo can with the pop top lid. Fill it to the brim with water, push the lid down so that water flows out (ie no air in the can) then place an empty beer can on top of the lid.

1st shot at the Milo can, the lid pops off and propels the empty beer can into the air. Trying to hit that is fun. (make sure there is a safe backstop.

[doc]

Brilliant.

As Monty Python said "Take thee thy Holy Hand grenade"

All in defence from the white bunny

Picture this 1 am, friggin Jack Russell has tree'd a possum. Stumble out in T shirt . Said Jack Russell sees spotlight, figures Oh he's here don't need to bark anymore. Can't find frigging Jack Russell, head back to bed just get into bed and .....Woof head back out find possum have trouble deciding whether to do the Jack Russell or the possum, dispatch possum with couple of CB Long lead round nose 710 Fps. No one knows if you miss with them they are so quiet. Head back to bed to be greeted by family member with camera, T shirt is a bit short. No It is not for publication, she didnt use the zoom lens

[deanohit]

1st shot at the Milo can, the lid pops off and propels the empty beer can into the air. Trying to hit that is fun. (make sure there is a safe backstop.

Now that is where a semi auto would be handy! :ar15: Get that quick follow up shot.
Actually I may have to try that with the lever gun at some stage!

[deanohit]

Head back to bed to be greeted by family member with camera, T shirt is a bit short. No It is not for publication, she didnt use the zoom lens[/SIZE][/SIZE]

Haha, they got you good there mate!

At one stage I was living up the back of a mates property in a tent, had it set up real well with an arm chair in the front and all.
Wake up on a real hot night busting for a piss, tents all open, stumble out and spook a possum sitting on the chair. So I went down the shed, grabbed the shotty off the rack, then laid on the sleeping bag with the shotty in reach, 1 hour later the possum pokes his head in the tent, BOOOM!!!!!
Wasn't much of him left! :pinch:

[The Pastor]

Haha, they got you good there mate!

At one stage I was living up the back of a mates property in a tent, had it set up real well with an arm chair in the front and all.
Wake up on a real hot night busting for a piss, tents all open, stumble out and spook a possum sitting on the chair. So I went down the shed, grabbed the shotty off the rack, then laid on the sleeping bag with the shotty in reach, 1 hour later the possum pokes his head in the tent, BOOOM!!!!!
Wasn't much of him left! :pinch:
how was the tent?

[deanohit]

how was the tent?

A few small holes out the front, it was all open though, so all good!:headbang:

[chris]

Took this fella out yesterday evening
http://lard.smugmug.com/photos/199957984_MY8pD-L.jpg

What's he got here?
http://lard.smugmug.com/photos/253046895_cgP5n-L.jpg

Nice retrieve to hand
http://lard.smugmug.com/photos/253047484_TjYwP-L.jpg

Good job, Hemi.
http://lard.smugmug.com/photos/253047194_GxS3K-L.jpg

[Mr Merde]

Nice shots of a working dog in action. I have a retreiver that is too stupid to do any work like that.

[chris]

Nice shots of a working dog in action. I have a retreiver that is too stupid to do any work like that.
He's a good 'un. I spend a lot of time with him working on a dummy and general obedience. He is now 14 months old, will walk to heel off the lead then sit and stay while I walk away from him until he gets the command to come (three peeps on a whistle). He's still a bit wild though and just occasionally drops it 2 or 3 metres in front of you or runs past hoping for a chase. On the whole he's pretty good.

[Smokin]

Awesome seeing a good dog at work. My dog used to find them ok but then he would just wait there for me to pick it up for him. Either he didn't like the warm, soft, squishie feel of it or he was a union member.

[chris]

Awesome seeing a good dog at work. My dog used to find them ok but then he would just wait there for me to pick it up for him. Either he didn't like the warm, soft, squishie feel of it or he was a union member.

Hemi will just occasionally refuse to pick up. I head over, put him on a lead, walk him away and send him to retrieve again.

[The Pastor]

Indy and I went to the howick rifle range last night, Indy is a better shot than I (he scored 87 I got 75) although at least I shot at the right target.......

Was great fun tho, i'll be going every week untill I find some place better / closer to the north shore.

[Indiana_Jones]

lol ok geez i shot at the wrong target i miss heard.

anyways after that experience i know i'll be getting a .22 in my collection when i start it (once i get my licence)

I like the look of the Mk II Savage (http://www.sportwaysgunshed.co.nz/viewcategory.php?category=firearms&subcategory=Rimfire), $525 for the wooden stock model from sportways

-Indy

[jrandom]

Nice shots of a working dog in action. I have a retreiver that is too stupid to do any work like that.

:laugh:

Yes; Goldens are great for cuddle, not so good for brain.

I'd love a good dog to hunt with, but that's years away. I wouldn't condemn such an animal to living in a suburban backyard and spending all of its weekdays alone.

[scorpious]

i converted a ww2 303 into a 410 shotgun, bye bye rabbits!!

[scorpious]

I have a highly illegal large caliber spunk rifle, perfect for hunting pussy.

It's lethal in the wrong hands. More so in the right ones.


yeah, but it's an semi-auto firing in three shot bursts with a thirty round mag.

not like those old fuckin muzzle loading muskets that are spent after one round and take twenty minutes to reload.

I think ive heard of that one, it has a really short barrel,:2guns: lol

[scumdog]

i converted a ww2 303 into a 410 shotgun, bye bye rabbits!!


A lomg time ago you could buy them already converted.
And use 45ACP ammo in them - so I have been told..:innocent::msn-wink::whistle:

[Swoop]

A lomg time ago you could buy them already converted.
And use 45ACP ammo in them - so I have been told..:innocent::msn-wink::whistle:
The De Lisle Carbine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine), perhaps?

[scumdog]

The De Lisle Carbine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lisle_carbine), perhaps?

Ah yes, the de Lisle carbine!

But no, I was talking about 303s converted to 410 shotgun complete with smooth-bore barrel.

Popular in the UK waay back 'cos a shotgun was less hassle to own than a rifle.

[Swoop]

But no, I was talking about 303s converted to 410 shotgun complete with smooth-bore barrel.

Popular in the UK waay back 'cos a shotgun was less hassle to own than a rifle.
A bit like a Kea gun then?

[scorpious]

A lomg time ago you could buy them already converted.
And use 45ACP ammo in them - so I have been told..:innocent::msn-wink::whistle:

yes well actually I hate using shotguns, one shot and everything runs off. I jst did it for the fun of it. In reality I used a silenced .22

[n0regret5]

TL1000S with a grapefruit crammed in the muffler becomes a grapefruit cannon, does that count?

[Swoop]

Same deal goes for my Norinco M305, a copy of the American M-14.
There is a good article, on these, in the NZ Guns magazine that has just been posted out.

[zooter]

I might have a crack at bunny busting for the neighbours. Problem is some of them get cranky about shooting, I don't know shit about rifles and don't have a firearms licence. How about them high powered air rifles with a silencer?

[sAsLEX]

I might have a crack at bunny busting for the neighbours. Problem is some of them get cranky about shooting, I don't know shit about rifles and don't have a firearms licence. How about them high powered air rifles with a silencer?

You shouldn't need a silencer with an air rifle.

[Swoop]

I don't know shit about rifles and don't have a firearms licence.
These are possibly things that they get cranky about...

Get down to your local shooting club and get some practice in before asking the local cow-cockies.
You will probably have a better success rate that way.

[irishlad]

Just back from 1st evening of firearms course. This is the compulsory course needed for first licence application. Man I really not sure its worth it. I was thinking I could get a rifle & keep it at a range. Tonight I learned that to get a licence it is required to show good security at home. Need at least a gun rack and a safe to store ammo. Also have to get 2 people as references. I am not sure I want to ask anyone to vouch for me. I am not a nutter, weel certifiable anyway. No history of violence or mental instability. I just don't want to put someone in that position.
Next week begins 6 evenings of learning how to handle firearms correctly. Will see how I feel after popping a few caps into wee bits of paper. Course is valid for 9mths so I then have that long to decide if I want to progress.
Does anyone know of evenings at different Auckland ranges where non-licenced members can pay to shoot? Birkenhead does thursday evening, $14 for 50 rounds. Thursdays no good as I have prior commitments.
Will see how I feel later

[Mr Merde]

.... Tonight I learned that to get a licence it is required to show good security at home. Need at least a gun rack and a safe to store ammo. Also have to get 2 people as references. I am not sure I want to ask anyone to vouch for me. I am not a nutter, weel certifiable anyway. No history of violence or mental instability. I just don't want to put someone in that position.

.... Course is valid for 9mths so I then have that long to decide if I want to progress.

Does anyone know of evenings at different Auckland ranges where non-licenced members can pay to shoot? Birkenhead does thursday evening, $14 for 50 rounds. Thursdays no good as I have prior commitments.
Will see how I feel later

Security at home can be as little as a locked cupboard. When I got my licence the firearms officer advised me to get a chain and padlock and secure my rifles with it to the hot water cylinder. I keep ammo in a drawer in another room and I also keep the bolts with the ammo. My pistols are kept in a 6mm safe that is bolted to the concrete floor.

I agree with the referees as it does help weed out the potential nutters.

Never heard of a course to get firearms cert. The most I had to do was sit through a mountain safety lecture on the arms code then complete a multi choice form on the arms code..

Once you have a licence for a shot gun or rifle you do not need to shoot at a range. If you know a friendly farmer or someone with access to a decent piece of land you can shoot there.

Personally I have a 100 metre range in a field, just 50 metres from my back door. I also have permission from the farmer to wander his 1000 acres and shoot where I like.

I have had a number of friends out at my place for sighting in and training.

It isnt too hard


PM me if you require any info.


Merde

[The Pastor]

Just back from 1st evening of firearms course. This is the compulsory course needed for first licence application. Man I really not sure its worth it. I was thinking I could get a rifle & keep it at a range. Tonight I learned that to get a licence it is required to show good security at home. Need at least a gun rack and a safe to store ammo. Also have to get 2 people as references. I am not sure I want to ask anyone to vouch for me. I am not a nutter, weel certifiable anyway. No history of violence or mental instability. I just don't want to put someone in that position.
Next week begins 6 evenings of learning how to handle firearms correctly. Will see how I feel after popping a few caps into wee bits of paper. Course is valid for 9mths so I then have that long to decide if I want to progress.
Does anyone know of evenings at different Auckland ranges where non-licenced members can pay to shoot? Birkenhead does thursday evening, $14 for 50 rounds. Thursdays no good as I have prior commitments.
Will see how I feel later
Whats this birkenhead range?

[Mr Merde]

Whats this birkenhead range?

Could it be the Navy range?

I have a number of friends who shhot there

[Swoop]

Could it be the Navy range?
Not at Birkenhead.
I think there is a smallbore club that shoots in BH somewhere though.

[sAsLEX]

Could it be the Navy range?



Nope.

Our normal shooting range is up Whangaparoa.

[irishlad]

Never heard of a course to get firearms cert. The most I had to do was sit through a mountain safety lecture on the arms code then complete a multi choice form on the arms code..

This is a 7wk mountain safety course. Last night we got to watch a video about the 7 rules. Next 6wks we get to spend at Birkenhead range, Grandstand off Mahara Avenue. Will get to shoot Rimfires & airguns. Will also do Q&A on each evening. Learn how to sight & calibrate a scope and how to clean guns safely. 7th night we do the multiple choice test.
All in all seemed like a good deal, $70 for course, $10 for a book & $15 range fees. Will give it all a go & see how I feel.

[Steam]

A whole page of women with weapons. Nice!
Wholesome and safe for work.
http://plasmastik.livejournal.com/315868.html#cutid1
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2291030921_3793302da9_o.jpg

[Swoop]

Popped into Reloader's on Saturday to resupply the .22 bunker, which was gettin down to the last 100,000 rounds...
I was informed that Winchester Australia is going down the gurgler in a big way. Unable to supply product.
Anything "Winchester" is now coming from the USA. The Oz gubbinment is looking to support the company as it is a "strategic resource" in the southern hemisphere for small arms supply.
The gubbinment has assisted the powder production plant in continuing business, but this issue stems from the closure of the company that supplies the brass cases.

Bugger.


At least I managed to pick up enough rounds to keep going for a few more months... Cheers Ron!

[irishlad]

Birkenhead rifle club is located in Grandstand at Memorial parks. On thursday evenings they allow people without a licence to come and shoot. I have attached a pic or pricing and one of an upcoming event at a Riverhead range on 30-03-2008.

[chrisso]

I dont have a gun but i wish I did, This area is infested with Rabbits( Sydney, Northern Beaches, Frenchs Forest area)Lil fuckers hopping all round the car park. Too many Possums too-I got one lives in my roof-Pity we cant shoot em here.Some of the Spiders around here are big nuf to shoot:beer::beer:

[ManDownUnder]

Online Hunter Education Course (http://www.hunter-ed.com/sc/index.htm)

Have a rummage - it's pretty damned good!

[deanohit]

Now I thought this was interesting, Lethality of the 22LR- Results! (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1)
This guy tested how a .22LR Standard Velocity Match round would penetrate 3 layers of clothing on a turkey at 300+ yards. The results were very suprising, going through not only 3 layers of clothing, but all the way trough the turkey and through the doubled up material and the duct tape holding the clothing as well! At 300yds! :blink:

[Wolf]

Now I thought this was interesting, Lethality of the 22LR- Results! (http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1)
This guy tested how a .22LR Standard Velocity Match round would penetrate 3 layers of clothing on a turkey at 300+ yards. The results were very suprising, going through not only 3 layers of clothing, but all the way trough the turkey and through the doubled up material and the duct tape holding the clothing as well! At 300yds! :blink:
Cheers. That's an excellent article.

If nothing else it should serve as an object lesson that it's not "just a .22".

[scumdog]

Cheers. That's an excellent article.

If nothing else it should serve as an object lesson that it's not "just a .22".

True Wolf - the big danger with using a silenced .22 is the lack of noise makes one tend to be a bit blase' (sp) about the rifle - easy to start thinking of it as a big slug-gun.

A rifle that makes a big bang ya tend to treat with more caution.

[deanohit]

If nothing else it should serve as an object lesson that it's not "just a .22".
Yep, thats for sure, I was talking with him last night and he now wants to test it at 500yds and beyond. Gotta make some mods to his scope mounts though to get enough elevation. :lol:
It doe's say on the pack that they're lethal out to 1.5M.

[Wolf]

It doe's say on the pack that they're lethal out to 1.5M.
1.5 miles or 1.5km? Haven't seen a standard velocity or high velocity box in ages but my Winchester sub-sonics have a warning that they are dangerous out to 2km.

We were warned in one of the firearms safety courses not to take that as the definitive figure as a guy was fatally shot at around twice the stated distance - seems a bloke was firing at something on the water of a lake with "just a .22" but the projectile skipped, like a stone in ducks 'n' drakes, and made it across the lake to where the guy was picnicking with his family.

Just because it says 2km or whatever, don't assume that that's as far as it's ever going to go.

[Drunken Monkey]

yes, great article. I recall one night we were out possum shooting with a .22 and hadn't hit anything. To make sure the rifle was sighted in properly, we fired at an 8" - 9" thick tree stump. Couldn't even be sure we were hitting in from the front, but there was definately a big hole in the back from the rounds we were putting through it. That was about 30 meters though, so a lot closer, but still didn't expect it to pass through a tree stump that thick. Turned out we were shooting fractionally high (must've been skimming fur!) - had no trouble hitting stuff after that.

[ManDownUnder]

True Wolf - the big danger with using a silenced .22 is the lack of noise makes one tend to be a bit blase' (sp) about the rifle - easy to start thinking of it as a big slug-gun.

A rifle that makes a big bang ya tend to treat with more caution.

LOL all too true - last Easter Bunny Shoot a certain young man (Sniper) taught me that lesson in spades. Hi f'n .22 simply "cycled" - that was the dominant sound (I don't recall hearing a bang, muted or otherwise).

I do recall seeing bunny after bunny rolling down the hills to meet him though.

Did I mention the Easter Bunny shoot at all.. and ... oo look - it's nearly Easter! YEEEEE HAAAAA!

[deanohit]

1.5 miles or 1.5km? Haven't seen a standard velocity or high velocity box in ages but my Winchester sub-sonics have a warning that they are dangerous out to 2km.

Box of Winchester Subs I have here says 2.5kms (1.5M).


I seem to recall reading some where about a group of army testers (I think) using big bore rifles over distances of 5km along a beach, and hitting targets!
Anyone know any more on this? I'm pretty sure it was around the turn of the century and with the Sharps Big .50.

[sAsLEX]

Box of Winchester Subs I have here says 2.5kms (1.5M).


I seem to recall reading some where about a group of army testers (I think) using big bore rifles over distances of 5km along a beach, and hitting targets!
Anyone know any more on this? I'm pretty sure it was around the turn of the century and with the Sharps Big .50.

Quite easy to work out.

Give me some muzzle velocities, we will ignore that annoying friction, and work out a theoretical max distance! Which would be pretty irrelevant I note.....

[doc]

Cheers. That's an excellent article.

If nothing else it should serve as an object lesson that it's not "just a .22".

"""I mean, I know that the 22LR has been a good hunting round for small critters/varmints such as rabbits and squirrels but occasionally you hear it is used as well for killing deers, coyotes and bigger animals – heck, on the internet, you can even find a story about the elephant being killed with a 22LR on the internet, LOL! """"

Quoted from the article not my words
And as for the pellet being dangerous to 2km

You don't believe this do you ?

Not trolling just my opinion.

[Wolf]

And as for the pellet being dangerous to 2km

You don't believe this do you ?

Not trolling just my opinion.
Dunno about killing elephants with a .22 but I have no reason to doubt our firearms safety instructor when he told the tale of a bloke being killed by a ricochet well in excess of the stated "dangerous distance".

I would not expect to hit anything deliberately at 2km with a .22 or be guaranteed of hitting a vital spot but flukish things can happen if you don't consider your firing zone.

Fired flat, I'd expect the projectile to be well and truly on the ground long before 2km but firing up into a tree and missing, that bullet's got to come down somewhere.

"Sod's Law" says it'll be on top of some poor fucking farmer and you'll both be in a power of shit.

Or it could ricochet off a lake surface and kill some poor sod picnicking with his wife and kids.

Personally, I'm of the "treat it with respect" persuasion. You could try to bag a goat with one at 50 metres and do little more than wound the poor animal and then you could be careless and kill a person instantly 500 metres away with an unlucky shot.

Dangerous out to 2km? I'd believe that and more just to be on the safe side as you cannot predict what flukish conditions you might encounter.

Anyone know enough physics to calculate the theoretical maximum dangerous distance of a .22lr round fired at optimal trajectory?

[The Pastor]

need to know the mussle velosity.

[deanohit]

need to know the mussle velosity.

Of what? A standard .22LR round is 1000fps.

[scumdog]

need to know the mussle velosity.

Never knew mussels move fast enough to have a veloSity but we know what ya mean:devil2:

[doc]

need to know the mussle velosity.

OK work this out CCI CB Long conical ball 22 long lead round nose 710 fps 29 grain bullet. Mussel velocity is something you feel after a bad feed isn't it

But seriously they dont penetrate the plastic road side markers from the other side of the road. Well I was told that anyway, I may have actually seen it with my own eye's but I forget a lot of things.

[Wolf]

Mussel velocity is something you feel after a bad feed isn't it
Any seafood will do...

[Wolf]

But seriously they dont penetrate the plastic road side markers from the other side of the road. Well I was told that anyway, I may have actually seen it with my own eye's but I forget a lot of things.
That's a strange claim, considering I've holed metal cans - through both sides - at considerably more than the width of a road. Lots of fun if there's water in the can, too - the shockwave of the projectile passing through makes a nice little geyser. (.303 makes a more spectacular geyser, obviously).

They weren't using a .22cal air rifle, were they? Or perhaps the fact that the road markers are designed to flex in conjunction with the properties of the plastic may have caused the result. I don't have any data on the composition of the markers, but some plastic compositions temporarily deform rather than suffer damage when struck - pretty much how polycarbonate (aka bulletproof "glass") works.

I know a .22 would penetrate the old-style wooden road marker and pass through it at that range. My mate shot right through seasoned-wood fence strainer posts with a number of .22lr hollowpoints and a hardball when experimenting with different "enhancements" (largely plasticine and mercury).

[deanohit]

"""heck, on the internet, you can even find a story about the elephant being killed with a 22LR LOL! """"

Quoted from the article not my words
And as for the pellet being dangerous to 2km

You don't believe this do you ?
Not trolling just my opinion.
Well, it wouldn't suprise me, it may have been point blank, we don't know.
But the thing is he mentions he found it on the internet and and it sounds like the author doesn't believe it himself.
I ain't gonna say yes or no to such a claim unless I see proof that it either did or didn't work.

[scumdog]

My crak old memory says this: The guy was staying in one of those those 'up-in-the-air hunting lodges that are about 5 or so metres up in the air supported on long posts.

Mr elephant came along and having an itch on his flank he used one of the posts as a rubbing post which resulted in the whole shebang shaking like a leaf.

The guy inside gets annoyed at his sleep being disturbed and decides for fire his revolver loaded with .22short cartidges to scare the elephant off.

He fires a shot through a gap in the floor-boards and is satisfied when the shaking stopped.

Next morning Mr elephant is discovered lying on the ground with a tiny hole on his back - the bullet had gone between two verterbrae!!!

(Can't recall if it was killed outright or just paralysed by the shot)

[doc]

OK work this out CCI CB Long conical ball 22 long lead round nose 710 fps 29 grain bullet. Mussel velocity is something you feel after a bad feed isn't it

But seriously they dont penetrate the plastic road side markers from the other side of the road. Well I was told that anyway, I may have actually seen it with my own eye's but I forget a lot of things.


That's a strange claim, considering I've holed metal cans - through both sides - at considerably more than the width of a road. Lots of fun if there's water in the can, too - the shockwave of the projectile passing through makes a nice little geyser. (.303 makes a more spectacular geyser, obviously).

They weren't using a .22cal air rifle, were they? Or perhaps the fact that the road markers are designed to flex in conjunction with the properties of the plastic may have caused the result. I don't have any data on the composition of the markers, but some plastic compositions temporarily deform rather than suffer damage when struck - pretty much how polycarbonate (aka bulletproof "glass") works.

I know a .22 would penetrate the old-style wooden road marker and pass through it at that range. My mate shot right through seasoned-wood fence strainer posts with a number of .22lr hollowpoints and a hardball when experimenting with different "enhancements" (largely plasticine and mercury).

I was describing the subsonics that Renegademaster is going to work the velocity out on . Ferk they wont even kill a pig at point blank seriously.

[The Pastor]

I lost my mechanics book with the equation + worked example in it >_<

[Korumba]

The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense.
The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important
than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.

As John Steinbeck once said:

1. Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

2. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

3. I carry a gun 'cause a cop is too heavy.

4. When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter
recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him,
"Why do you carry a 45?" The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a .46."

6. An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity.

7. The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented
on his wearing his sidearm.
"Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?"
"No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle."

8. Beware the man who only has one gun. HE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!!

But wait, there's more!

I was once asked by a lady visiting if I had a gun in the house. I said I did.
She said, "Well, I certainly hope it isn't loaded!"
To which I said, "Of course it is loaded, can't work without bullets!"
She then asked, "Are you that afraid of someone evil coming into your house?"
My reply was, "No not at all. I am not afraid of the house catching fire either,
but I have fire extinguishers around, and they are all loaded too."
To which I'll add, having a gun in the house that isn't loaded is like having
a car in the garage without gas in the tank.

[sAsLEX]

NRA leader dies.

http://stuff.co.nz/4466777a10.html

[Indiana_Jones]

R.I.P Charlton.

That was sad news for me today.

-Indy

[McJim]

NRA leader dies.

http://stuff.co.nz/4466777a10.html

So can we have his gun then?

[scumdog]

So can we have his gun then?

Only when his hands are cold.

They're only dead at the moment.

[Steam]

Here's an interesting hand-cannon. Origin unknown. Age unknown. Caliber unknown - but pretty bloody large! It looks as if it may even have a fuse that you light.

If you liked that you may like this site: http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/02/miniature-spy-guns.html
http://lh3.ggpht.com/abramsv/R_xSRfXRouI/AAAAAAAANzw/ckWq_2eo9xI/s1600/canon+a+main.jpg

[SpankMe]

Where can I buy some for my shottie so I can do some extreme bunny hunting :D

FRAG-12 rounds are made up of a standard
3 inch 12-gauge cartridge case and propellant, firing a fin-stabilized
19mm warhead with a MIL-SPEC 1316 compliant
fuze assembly. The projectile is designed to arm 3 meters
from the muzzle and fires upon impact with a surface. The
HE projectile has sufficient explosive power to make one
inch holes in ¼ inch cold rolled steel plate.

[Wolf]

Where can I buy some for my shottie so I can do some extreme bunny hunting :D

FRAG-12 rounds are made up of a standard
3 inch 12-gauge cartridge case and propellant, firing a fin-stabilized
19mm warhead with a MIL-SPEC 1316 compliant
fuze assembly. The projectile is designed to arm 3 meters
from the muzzle and fires upon impact with a surface. The
HE projectile has sufficient explosive power to make one
inch holes in ¼ inch cold rolled steel plate.
Just the thing for the ol' Mossberg 500!

[jrandom]

FRAG-12 rounds...

I saw a segment on those puppies on 'Future Weapons' on the Discovery channel a couple months back.

Gotta admit, a standard 3" 12-gauge round that turns your shottie into an RPG is awesome, and by awesome, I mean totally sweet.

:eek:

[Wolf]

I saw a segment on those puppies on 'Future Weapons' on the Discovery channel a couple months back.

Gotta admit, a standard 3" 12-gauge round that turns your shottie into an RPG is awesome, and by awesome, I mean totally sweet.

:eek:
"You must spread some Reputation around blah blah blah."

Love your definition of "awesome", dude.

[ManDownUnder]

Does the little ol' HMR have what it takes for goats?

Also, I might have an option on a cheap(er) 7mm-08. Any advice against it?

[jrandom]

Does the little ol' HMR have what it takes for goats?

IMHO, no way. Goats require a centerfire calibre for a reliable and humane kill.


Also, I might have an option on a cheap(er) 7mm-08. Any advice against it?

I have an irrational preference for the .270, but... well, it's irrational.

Either cartridge offers a superior trajectory to the .308, and I suppose the shorter case of the 7mm-08 has some advantages.

[deanohit]

Does the little ol' HMR have what it takes for goats?
Yep, there was a guy who used a H&R single shot with the 20grain HP on goats, he did and article for NZ Guns & Ammo a few years back, took 2 shots, 1 shot to the neck, which would have been fatal on it's own, and one to the base of the skull.
From what I read, the wee 17grain varmint round doesn't stay together enough to fully penetrate.

[Drunken Monkey]

I saw a segment on those puppies on 'Future Weapons' on the Discovery channel a couple months back.

Gotta admit, a standard 3" 12-gauge round that turns your shottie into an RPG is awesome, and by awesome, I mean totally sweet.

:eek:

I saw that same episode. It made me crap my pants I was that excited!

[ManDownUnder]

IMHO, no way. Goats require a centerfire calibre for a reliable and humane kill.
Ta - totally agreed in principle. Any second opinions?



I have an irrational preference for the .270, but... well, it's irrational.


Thanks - I have to admit I prefer the 270 too, but that's simply a paper based preference, never having even fired a round...

Without blowing smoke up your butt - it's hard to not respect such honesty.

[jrandom]

Thanks - I have to admit I prefer the 270 too, but that's simply a paper based preference, never having even fired a round...

I've played with a friend's .270, and I love it to bits.

Edit: To be specific, I was shooting reliable 1.5" groups at 100 yards off the shoulder after 15 minutes of practice. The .270 just feels softer and more precise than a 30-calibre.

Haven't ever fired a 7mm-08, though. I suspect there wouldn't be much to pick between them.

A bit of googling on the subject reveals the expected online argy bargy over whether .270 or 7mm-08 is superior, with no real answer to the question.

If you can get a good rifle in 7mm-08 at a sharp one-off price, I'd say go for it. As I implied before, either calibre is, in my opinion, superior to .308 for hunting medium game in the field.


Without blowing smoke up your butt - it's hard to not respect such honesty.

:hug:

[scumdog]

Does the little ol' HMR have what it takes for goats?

Also, I might have an option on a cheap(er) 7mm-08. Any advice against it?

Leave the fly-swatter for what it's meant to be used for.

A 7mm-08 will handle any hunting anywhere in NZ, if it is consistantly accurate buy it.

On the other hand I prefer my 308, used it since 1974 and believe in it totally, that being said there's a shitload of suitable calibres for NZ hunting, even a good sporterised 303 is any amount of gun.

But on the whole I would steer clear of 222, 223 etc type rifles, while I've also used them they are barely adequate and will let you down one day, they have no ability to get through scrb or penetrate an animal at an off-angle.

And the idea is one-shot kills EVERYTIME and not have to run the animal down pumping follow-up shots into it.

[chrisso]

Ive got a couple of WW2 .50 cal MG bullets. I reckon you could kill someone just by throwing the things at someone.How cool would a Barrett .50 be? David Koresh had several thats why the Feds were so wary at Waco.Not ideal weapon for Bunnies tho you could shoot em at 1000+ metres.:argh:

[Wolf]

Not ideal weapon for Bunnies tho you could shoot em at 1000+ metres.:argh:
How would you know you'd hit them? Hit or miss, there's going to be no evidence of a bunny at the scene. :devil2:

[chrisso]

How would you know you'd hit them? Hit or miss, there's going to be no evidence of a bunny at the scene. :devil2:

and who wants to walk 1 km to look for the remains of a rabbit!

[sAsLEX]

Ive got a couple of WW2 .50 cal MG bullets. I reckon you could kill someone just by throwing the things at someone.How cool would a Barrett .50 be? David Koresh had several thats why the Feds were so wary at Waco.Not ideal weapon for Bunnies tho you could shoot em at 1000+ metres.:argh:

Yeah I think it was something about the fact that a 50 cal round will go straight through a Bradley fighting vehicle?


How would you know you'd hit them?

Pink mist


Here is 750 odd metres hunting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCyTRzL5AAQ&feature=related

[sAsLEX]

.223 vs 308

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cALT5QSc-G0&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cALT5QSc-G0&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

[Wolf]

Pink mist
And you're supposed to see this bunny vapour at a kilometre? Even with top-of-the-line optics you'd be pushing it...

[sAsLEX]

And you're supposed to see this bunny vapour at a kilometre? Even with top-of-the-line optics you'd be pushing it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX4aqmbaGIo

Some 1400m + shots in there that you can see...... kinda

[Mr Merde]

Yeah I think it was something about the fact that a 50 cal round will go straight through a Bradley fighting vehicle?



Pink mist




A mate of mine had a bolt action Barret when they first came out. Told the police hye wanted a .50 calibre bolt action rifle, they must have thought he was after one of the old British calibres such as .505 Gibbs.

Anyway we shot it quite a few time at the Caldicot range (nr Newport, Sth Wales)

Just to add to the story in those days we could purchase depleted uranium ammunition for this rifle, 25 ukp per.

We tried a few.

[The Pastor]

well i just got given a jw-15, norinco .22lr bolt action.

the finish was pretty shit so i spend the day sanding it down and have just put the first coat of sanding selaer on, should look semi ok once ive finished with it, will post up some photos when its done.

Will get a cleaning kit tomorrow and clean the dirty basterd! its filtly as, i cleaned it as best as I could with a rag and some gun oil, but damn that bore is filthy!

the barel has some surface rust on the outside, what should i do about it?

[jagman]

shootin seasons about to begin,time to clean ya shotguns and load up sum steels,good luck and all becareful

[scumdog]

.223 vs 308

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cALT5QSc-G0&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cALT5QSc-G0&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

Meh, a 12guage solid slug would have been good to watch!!

(Or even a 220grain 308)

[deanohit]

the barel has some surface rust on the outside, what should i do about it?
Sounds good mate, I found if I just gave the rust a light scrape with a knife or whatever and flaked it off, then a good coating of gun oil, works for a quick fix instead of re-blueing the barrel.

[The Pastor]

Sounds good mate, I found if I just gave the rust a light scrape with a knife or whatever and flaked it off, then a good coating of gun oil, works for a quick fix instead of re-blueing the barrel.
Is re bluing expensive? ive spent nothing on the rifle so far, so a little bit of money thrown at it isnt going to break the bank.

I think i stuffed up the varnish on it, might have to sand it back and start over.

[deanohit]

Is re bluing expensive? ive spent nothing on the rifle so far, so a little bit of money thrown at it isnt going to break the bank.

I think i stuffed up the varnish on it, might have to sand it back and start over.
Depends if you think its worth it, mines just a beater gun that shoots straight.

Perma Blue Paste from Reloaders Supplies is $15 a tube, but you could probly do a few guns with that amount.

[Mr Merde]

ANy of you out there seen this months copy of the above mentioned magazine?

In the SSANZ report at the back there is two reports from that wonderful place of political correctness, the UK.

1) police get a report that a person has guns in his house, they go in mob handed. What do they find? Two air rifles and two replica pistols. All legally held. So they confiscate them and rationalise it by saying that they have stopped these weapons from getting into the criminal world. How could this be? Well they rationalised that the house may have been burgled and these firearms stolen so they confiscated them.

2) A gentleman is transporting his shop's takings, by car, to the bank. A low life smashes the window and tries to grab the takings. He weilds a knife and inflicts seven wounds to the shopkeepers back and arms. The shop keeper fights back and in the scuffle the baddies gets stabbed to death with his own knife.

Shopkeeper now being charged witrh murder.


Fucking PC to the extreme. How long before our nanny state emulates this behaviour from its departments.


There is also a very good editorial and mail bag this month.

DOC come out looking like the dictatorial, blinkered tree hugging brigade they are.

[ManDownUnder]

DOC come out looking like the dictatorial, blinkered tree hugging brigade they are.

You leave our poor Dept of Conversation alone... !

[ManDownUnder]

Tikka T3 Stainless in .270 Win

or

Savage 116FSS (Stainless) in .270 Win

?

[Mr Merde]

You leave our poor Dept of Conversation alone... !

I'm sorry I didnt mean to denigrate such a fine upstanding department who in all honesty only has the welfare of the native flora to heart.

That I have developed a severve distrust and paranoia for anything involving this department is my fault and should in no way reflect upon, what to many people, is the inept and derisory way in which said department is managed.

[Mr Merde]

Tikka T3 Stainless in .270 Win

or

Savage 116FSS (Stainless) in .270 Win

?

To quote the bard "that is the rub"

Personally I have a real soft spot for the Tikka. Drooled over many a fine example in the gun shops.

On the other hand the Savage marque has a very good reputation for accurate and affordable rifles.

[ManDownUnder]

I'm sorry I didnt mean to denigrate such a fine upstanding department who in all honesty only has the welfare of the native flora to heart.

That's better! (The Dept. of Conservation however...) I recall seeing something on TV a while back where the West Coasters in the South island wanted to drop a few trees and the various protestors were out... one of the coasters stood back a second and said something like... why do you guys always have to have a beard?

And it was true - there must have been 10 guys there protesting - none of them would have used a razor in the last 18 months! God it was funny, and their ability to protest dissolved as the conversation went off topic at a huge rate of knots.


To quote the bard "that is the rub"

Personally I have a real soft spot for the Tikka. Drooled over many a fine example in the gun shops.

On the other hand the Savage marque has a very good reputation for accurate and affordable rifles.

Yes - did I tell you I shot a group of 3 rounds from my wee Savage HMR... 100m range... 1 inch group. Thats 2 holes with a 50%+ overlap (remember - this is an HMR...) and one flyer an inch out to the left...

Savage appears to be a good price from Sportsways though... comes complete with a 3-9 x 40 Tasco

[deanohit]

I'm sorry I didnt mean to denigrate such a fine upstanding department who in all honesty only has the welfare of the native flora to heart.

That I have developed a severve distrust and paranoia for anything involving this department is my fault and should in no way reflect upon, what to many people, is the inept and derisory way in which said department is managed.
Yep, know what you mean, I haven't had much time for them after a mate poured in many tens of thousands of dollars and many years effort to start a joint breeding program for native birds in NZ.
Only to have DOC back out right as it was about to begin. hence, no birds to breed with.:argh:

[Mr Merde]

Yep, know what you mean, I haven't had much time for them after a mate poured in many tens of thousands of dollars and many years effort to start a joint breeding program for native birds in NZ.
Only to have DOC back out right as it was about to begin. hence, no birds to breed with.:argh:

In the 5 years I have been back home I have not, generally, heard a good word to be said for this department by anyone who actually uses the bush.

From killing the Himilayan Thar because it may eat a mountain lilly that live 1000 ft apart from the animal, to dropping 1080 poison ( the only country to diperse this from the air) to destroying all the bush huts in the parks that trampers and hunters have relied upon for decades.

How can a government department have that much disdain for the people they claim to be assisting by "saving" the native flora?

I hope this hasnt gotten too political.

I've kept relatively quiet for the past few months.

[sAsLEX]

dropping 1080 poison ( the only country to diperse this from the air)

Which is only made in one factory in the world an basically NZ is the only place that uses it...... will be a shame when that closes in the near future.... not!


Will post some photos soon of what the locals think of DOC near our bach where they just had another 1080 drop the barstards......... still saw a cat in the bush as well, lucky for it the 308 wasn't in the car.

[ManDownUnder]

Tikka T3 Stainless in .270 Win
or
Savage 116FSS (Stainless) in .270 Win

Today I stumbled across a new Tikka T3 270WSM on special (last years stock... terrible that...)... and it's $150 cheaper then this years model and comes with better rings than the current model :banana:

So my question is simple. What's the top three most important creature comforts for the dog box if it's a medium to long stay? :pinch:

[Mr Merde]

Today I stumbled across a Tikka T3 270WSM on special (last years stock... terrible that...)... and it's $150 cheaper then this years model and comes with better rings than the current model :banana:

So my question is simple. What's the top three most important creature comforts you suggest I put in the dog box if the stay is of a medium to long duration? :pinch:


The cooker, the TV and the fridge.

Or an even simpler remedy would be to put

THE MISSUS there

[ManDownUnder]

The cooker, the TV and the fridge.

Or an even simpler remedy would be to put

THE MISSUS there

LOL I gues that's why they call it "happy camper". I ain't going to be allowed in the house for a bit.

[ManDownUnder]

Reloading question...

What's the shelf life of reloaded 12g Shotshells? If I stock up on the bits needed and start making them, could I expect ammo made now to reliably fire next Easter (12 months from today).

I'd say so long as storage is dry etc it should be fine... but is there anything else I should keep in mind?

[Mr Merde]

Reloading question...

What's the shelf life of reloaded 12g Shotshells? If I stock up on the bits needed and start making them, could I expect ammo made now to reliably fire next Easter (12 months from today).

I'd say so long as storage is dry etc it should be fine... but is there anything else I should keep in mind?

As long as all care is taken in the making, and they are kept in a dry atmosphere I can see no problem with storage.

I regularly load BP shotgun and keep them for up to 6 months with no adverse problems. BP atracts moisture so after 6 months they are still serviceable then things must be sealed ok

If worried you could seal the folds with some sort of wax. This would be like wearing belt and braces but each to their own

[ManDownUnder]

As long as all care is taken in the making, and they are kept in a dry atmosphere I can see no problem with storage.



Cheers.

Might be worth buying some big airtight boxes and a few of those moisture absorbers then (as a double check). Take it out and freight it when I'm ready...

[Smokin]

I have done a heap of shotshell reloading over the years and had no problems using some old duck loads years later.
Like Mr Merde was saying, Ball powder is hydroscopic and if you can keep it air tight will last for years.
I always used winchester powder and I beleave good quality wads make all the difference to performance and a long shelf life.
Oh yeah, Don't overlook the cases, smooth sided hulls reload a lot better than the ribbed sided hulls.
What sort of press are you using?
I have a couple of powder bushes and charge bars for a "MEC" you are welcome to if they are of use.

[ManDownUnder]

I have a couple of powder bushes and charge bars for a "MEC" you are welcome to if they are of use.

Ta man.

MEC Junior is what I'm looking at buying, stock up on cases from a friend of mine... or two... and Bob's your Aun't best battery powered friend...

Cases from the local skeet club that are up to it, load 'em up and we're away. I figure that they don;t have to be superb quality because on the bunny hunt they get flung left and right (buggered if I want to be scavaging around in the back of Crumpy's ute for the bastards) but then If I could put together some reliable loads it might be a fun intro to reloading - and save some cash at the same time...

My problem is then getting them down there - Air NZ get's scratchy about me carrying more than 5 kilos of ammo. Might need to courier or drive them down

[jrandom]

270WSM on special

You don't want a .270WSM.

Noisier, more recoil, expensive and harder-to-get ammo (have you seen what that shit costs in the shops?), a heavier gun, and all for what, an additional 25 metres of point-blank range?

:no:

.270's where it's at, man.

[scumdog]

You don't want a .270WSM.

Noisier, more recoil, expensive and harder-to-get ammo (have you seen what that shit costs in the shops?), a heavier gun, and all for what, an additional 25 metres of point-blank range?

:no:

.270's where it's at, man.

I reckon that too.

Often these whiz-bang magnum type crtrdiges fade into obscurity in a decade or so leaving you with (more) expensive ammo to buy.

270
30-06
308
303

all good calibres for NZ and have been around for centiries - and almoast all manufacturers make rifles and bullets in these calibre.

Sure, 25-06 7mm-08 etc are good too - but not what you generally NEED and no real advantage.

[ManDownUnder]

You don't want a .270WSM.

Noisier, more recoil, expensive and harder-to-get ammo (have you seen what that shit costs in the shops?), a heavier gun, and all for what, an additional 25 metres of point-blank range?

:no:

.270's where it's at, man.

too late - the deal was done last night. Besides... the recoils not an issue (try doing the bunny shoot sometime... 150 to 200 rounds of 12g ammo turning your sholder a strange shade of "cow poo bruising".)

The recoil doesn't worry me, and the price of ammo's just an excuse to get into reloading. I'm a happy camper!... Next purchase - a scope, some reloading gear and a chest freezer...

Oh and the 270WSM was on special, comes with the better optilock rings (the '08 model has Ali ones apparently - and they're not up to it). Price was good (discounted in fact).

Meh - you get to say I told you so later... hell - I'll even shout you the beer so your mouth won't dry out.

[jrandom]

too late - the deal was done last night.

Oh well.

In that case, allow me to be the first to congratulate you on the choice of your fine new rifle and kiss your arse in the hope of getting a play with it sometime.

:D

[ManDownUnder]

Oh well.

In that case, allow me to be the first to congratulate you on the choice of your fine new rifle and kiss your arse in the hope of getting a play with it sometime.

:D

LOL.... no worries man. I need to find somewhere overrun with Venisons too... I know of a couple already, but somewhere within 2 hours of Akl would be good.

Did I tell you about the 80-90 goats that went "bang/dead" last weekend??? NOICE!

[Smokin]

Ta man.

MEC Junior is what I'm looking at buying, stock up on cases from a friend of mine... or two... and Bob's your Aun't best battery powered friend...

Cases from the local skeet club that are up to it, load 'em up and we're away. I figure that they don;t have to be superb quality because on the bunny hunt they get flung left and right (buggered if I want to be scavaging around in the back of Crumpy's ute for the bastards) but then If I could put together some reliable loads it might be a fun intro to reloading - and save some cash at the same time...

My problem is then getting them down there - Air NZ get's scratchy about me carrying more than 5 kilos of ammo. Might need to courier or drive them down

from memory the ribbed cases didn't have a taper inside and didn't seal well if you had the wrong wads, Things may have changed tho as It must be at least 8 years since I last reloaded.

You could always bring down your gear and reload them all the night before.
Surely 2 kilo's of ball powder wouldn't raise their eyebrows :whistle:.

Oh and Crumpy has sold the Hilux. He's got a Jeep Wrangler soft top now :crazy:.

[jrandom]

Did I tell you about the 80-90 goats that went "bang/dead" last weekend???

That's a whole lotta goat curry.

[ManDownUnder]

from memory the ribbed cases didn't have a taper inside and didn't seal well if you had the wrong wads, Things may have changed tho as It must be at least 8 years since I last reloaded.


all the ladies say ribbed is better though...!


You could always bring down your gear and reload them all the night before.

Surely 2 kilo's of ball powder wouldn't raise their eyebrows :whistle:.

It's not air NZ I'm worried about - imagine doing that on the front lawn at camp mothers in the dark after a few beers...

[Smokin]

It's not air NZ I'm worried about - imagine doing that on the front lawn at camp mothers in the dark after a few beers...


Ill help ya bud. We could make fireworks out of the left overs.

[ManDownUnder]

That's a whole lotta goat curry.

Shitload of fun too... (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=72569)

[ManDownUnder]

Ill help ya bud. We could make fireworks out of the left overs.

I'm in favour of just one firework... no matter how much powder's left...

[Mr Merde]

Ta man.

MEC Junior is what I'm looking at buying, stock up on cases from a friend of mine... or two... and Bob's your Aun't best battery powered friend...

Cases from the local skeet club that are up to it, load 'em up and we're away. I figure that they don;t have to be superb quality because on the bunny hunt they get flung left and right (buggered if I want to be scavaging around in the back of Crumpy's ute for the bastards) but then If I could put together some reliable loads it might be a fun intro to reloading - and save some cash at the same time...

My problem is then getting them down there - Air NZ get's scratchy about me carrying more than 5 kilos of ammo. Might need to courier or drive them down

Large words in red and reloading are not mutually inclusive.

Sure the cost of each round will be cheaper and get progressively cheaper but you will find that being able to produce large amonts of ammo cheaply will only make you want to SHOOT MORE AND MORE.

BTW I have a couple of hundred Winchester AA hulls spare that you can have.

[ManDownUnder]

being able to produce large amonts of ammo cheaply will only make you want to SHOOT MORE AND MORE.


BTW I have a couple of hundred Winchester AA hulls spare that you can have.

You make that sound like it's a bad thing... LOL

And cheers - we'll cross paths I'm sure. Chuck some in the car at some point and I'll swap you those for a lunch or two. Much appreciated.

[sAsLEX]

Which is only made in one factory in the world an basically NZ is the only place that uses it...... will be a shame when that closes in the near future.... not!


Will post some photos soon of what the locals think of DOC near our bach where they just had another 1080 drop the barstards......... still saw a cat in the bush as well, lucky for it the 308 wasn't in the car.

Some phots of St Arnuad locals thoughts on 1080

[The Pastor]

Well here is my first rifle, jw15 chinas finest.

Stock was uber shit, so I sanded it back, primered then varnished it up real nice.

[Smokin]

Well here is my first rifle, jw15 chinas finest.

Stock was uber shit, so I sanded it back, primered then varnished it up real nice.

That looks really good mate, I should do the same with my one.

I didn't realize you were so short.

[deanohit]

Looking very nice there mate, is that the 10 round mag?

[The Pastor]

yeah 10 round, but aparntly it only loads 5. I'll check it out when I get my licence!

[ManDownUnder]

Talk to me. Just got the 270WSM and a xx-10 or xx-12 varipower scope seems to be the go. I'd love a Leupold or Zeiss but they $$ on them is not insignificant. Bushnell and Tasco claim to have good scopes.. and the price and function is right.

Are the Leupolds etc worth the extra $$$ (or conversely am I wasting money if I buy a Tasco or Bushnell? Would I regret it and be forced to upgrade at some point anyway?)

[chrisso]

FBI snipers use Leopold Scopes--- dunno if thats any help:2guns:

[ManDownUnder]

FBI snipers use Leopold Scopes--- dunno if thats any help:2guns:

The also have a budget slightly beyond mine...

[Swoop]

Bushnell and Tasco have an OK reputation. It depends on what it is going to be used for and the range that the projectile has to fly. Longer range stuff and the answer is Leupold.
Unless Zeiss or Swarovski is more appealing!

[Smokin]

I have been told by a couple of highly regarded people in the varmit hunting scene that you shouldn't ignore the bushnell range as they are one last remaining cheaper scope manufactor using quality japanese optics.
The bushnell banner got a good report as did the trophy ( I think thats the one) and if you felt you wanted more the mueller (sp) was well worth it.

I'll check up on the model names if you wish.

[ghost]

I use a Leupold VX1 on my 10-22 and am always impressed with the clarity and light transmission so would tend to invest a bit more on the higher priced scopes. Would like to try the VX3 series but dont want to remorgage the house.

[scumdog]

And I would go for a 3-9 varipower (if you're going for a varipower) no need for any more magnification.

But a good 4X40 will also stand you in good stead.

[deanohit]

I find my 3-9X40 Leupold to be bloody brilliant.
A huge improvement over the old (like 20years) Tasco I had on the .308.

[The Pastor]

Got my licence in the mail yesterday,

need to get some better mounts for my scope now, cant work the bolt with the ones i have

[sAsLEX]

Got my licence in the mail

Yeah got mine today, I can finally purchase and fire a weapon........:mellow:

[scumdog]

Got my licence in the mail yesterday,

need to get some better mounts for my scope now, cant work the bolt with the ones i have


Don't have that problem with my Sako lever-action!!:2thumbsup

[deanohit]

Don't have that problem with my Sako lever-action!!:2thumbsup
Yep, same with my Browning BLR. :yes:

Must be some weird scope rings on ya rifle RM, as you know the bolt worked fine with the rings on mine.

[Wolf]

Don't have that problem with my Sako lever-action!!:2thumbsup
No doubt.

But I'll bet cycling the action while prone is not as easy as with a bolt-action...

[scumdog]

No doubt.

But I'll bet cycling the action while prone is not as easy as with a bolt-action...


Na, no worries, the lever goes forwards as it goes down and it is a fairly short throw - and my trigger-hand hardly leaves the the pistol grip while doing it, less disturbance of aim etc!!:2thumbsup

[Wolf]

Na, no worries, the lever goes forwards as it goes down and it is a fairly short throw - and my trigger-hand hardly leaves the the pistol grip while doing it, less disturbance of aim etc!!:2thumbsup
Sounds great - a vast improvement over a Winchester .30-30

[ManDownUnder]

Anyone want a new Weaver Grand Slam 3.5-10x50 for $680?

[scumdog]

Anyone want a new Weaver Grand Slam 3.5-10x50 for $680?

What's wrong with it? - more 'scope than you need?

I would have thought it wouldn't have been far off the mark for you - maybe a 3-9X might have been closer.

[ManDownUnder]

What's wrong with it? - more 'scope than you need?

I would have thought it wouldn't have been far off the mark for you - maybe a 3-9X might have been closer.

It's perfect for what I need - that's why I'm keeping the other one. Had to buy two to get the deal...

[Swoop]

Bullet prices shoot through the roof. (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=359&objectid=10511437)

Demand is high among the armed forces and gun enthusiasts. Photo / Reuters
Gunslinger Bob Krueger blasts away at his outlaw rivals at a tourist show in this storied Old West town, although rising ammo costs may force him to choose his shots.

Krueger and his gnarly band of pistoleros are among millions of shooters, hunters and even lawmen across the United States feeling the pinch as sky-high metals prices and demand from wars abroad are driving up the price of bullets.

Ammo prices for many popular guns have more than tripled in the past three years, driven in large part by surging demand for metals in rapidly industrialising China.

As the Asian giant becomes wealthier, millions of tonnes of copper, lead and zinc, which are also used to make bullets and brass shell-casings, are being snapped up.

Shooters, gun dealers and sheriffs say the impact has been further aggravated by competition for limited ammo stocks with the US military, currently fighting wars on two fronts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"Everybody is feeling it," said Krueger, a Stetson wearing cowboy whose show blasts through hundreds of rounds of blank ammo each week at Six Gun City in Tombstone.

"If things get bad enough, we may all just get one bullet each," he said, to laughter from his grizzled buddies.

Lynn Kartchner, a gun shop owner in nearby Douglas, Arizona, says he now pays US$250 ($323) for a case of 1000 rounds of assault rifle ammunition, up from US$80 two years ago, while a box of popular 9mm shells has jumped to US$17 from US$10.

"Price rises have been accompanied by scarcity for certain kinds of ammo," Kartchner said from his shop, which is packed with rifles, pistols and shooting paraphernalia.

"There isn't as much variety, and a lot of people snap up whatever they can get their hands on," he added.

Increased costs and competition for ammo is also being felt by police forces across the US, among them the sheriff's department in Cochise County on the Arizona-Mexico border, which faces incursions from armed smugglers and even bandits from south of the line.

Last year the department faced a four-month delay acquiring rifle cartridges and had to dip into ammo reserves, rousing the concern of Sheriff Larry Dever.

"We do face people in this environment down here who are heavily armed.

[Indiana_Jones]

Well got my 1st rifle today!

Was meant to pick up my Mosin Nagant, but the dumb pricks at the shop had sold it (as i was unable to pick it up for like 4 months after i put a down payment on it), so i'll have to wait until they get some more in stock in about 2 months.

So anyways went to another store and grab an TOZ .22 :D

Nice little gun, can't wait to try her out!

-Indy

[deanohit]

Was meant to pick up my Mosin Nagant, but the dumb pricks at the shop had sold it (as i was unable to pick it up for like 4 months after i put a down payment on it), so i'll have to wait until they get some more in stock in about 2 months-Indy
Let me know how it goes, I'm looking at getting an M-N sometime and putting an Advanced Technologies stock on it for another big bore rifle.

Those wee Tozs are all right, had one as my first possum rifle. :niceone:

[Indiana_Jones]

Let me know how it goes, I'm looking at getting an M-N sometime and putting an Advanced Technologies stock on it for another big bore rifle.

Those wee Tozs are all right, had one as my first possum rifle. :niceone:

Will do mate, love the nagant :D

And yea, the TOZ looks and feels nice, they had those Chinese guns for sale, but i opted to go for the TOZ.

-Indy

[deanohit]

Will do mate, love the nagant :D
Every thing I hear about them that is relevant to me is all good, hence the decision to buy one some time in the immediate future. :clap:

And yea, the TOZ looks and feels nice, they had those Chinese guns for sale, but i opted to go for the TOZ.
-Indy
Chinese guns? Norincos?
I'd take my Norinco over the old Toz any day, the finish on the JW15 was a bit shit, but DAYYYYUM! it shoots straight. :ar15:

[Wolf]

What are the modern TOZs like? Back in the day they were widely decried as the biggest piece of shit on the market or revered as the best little gun money can buy - depending on who was doing the talking. I gather quality control was pretty-much nonexistent and you could get a superb weapon or an utter lemon with equal likelihood.

The Mosin-Nagant you're getting: the real McCoy or a copy?

I had an old WWII-era Mosin-Nagant rifle (rifle, not carbine) - very nice weapon. Sorry, wery nice weapon, Tovarich.

Long, heavy and with a boot like an enraged mule - especially when firing prone (NEVER again!)

Regrettably I sold it as I needed the money more than I needed the rifle.

[deanohit]

What are the modern TOZs like? Back in the day they were widely decried as the biggest piece of shit on the market or revered as the best little gun money can buy - depending on who was doing the talking. I gather quality control was pretty-much nonexistent and you could get a superb weapon or an utter lemon with equal likelihood.
Mine was only good for a possum gun.

The Mosin-Nagant you're getting: the real McCoy or a copy?
You can get refurbished originals from reloaders in Auckland for something like $239. :niceone:

[Wolf]

You can get refurbished originals from reloaders in Auckland for something like $239. :niceone:
Fuck, that's a good price. I think I'll hold out for a .243 Husqvarna or similar, though.

[Indiana_Jones]

Well I donno about the modern TOZ as this one looks like late 70's, made in the USSR!

-Indy

[wickle]

Has anyone tried firing 45 shells in a .410 shotgun? Apparently possible, but I wouldn't want to try it. Not too much fun having a firearm blow up in ya face. Some firearms are made to take both and I've even seen a .410 revolver. My .410 side by side shotgun would make a cool 45 double rifle but not too acurate with smooth bores.

Speaking of firearms blowing up. Had a guy in the army at basic forget to take his BFA off when the order came through to load live ammo. The barrel of his SLR split open like a banana skin. The guy was luckly the receiver didn't blow back into his face.
did the senior NCO have a fit?

[Indiana_Jones]

Are there any outdoor areas in Auckland, on the north shore would be better, where one can shoot? i.e. crown land or what not?

Cheers

-Indy

[Monsterbishi]

Are there any outdoor areas in Auckland, on the north shore would be better, where one can shoot? i.e. crown land or what not?

Cheers

-Indy

http://www.doc.govt.nz/templates/ActivitiesSummary.aspx?id=34358

Usual DOC rules apply.

[Indiana_Jones]

so you need a permit, even if you're not hunting? that's kinda annoying

-Indy

[deanohit]

so you need a permit, even if you're not hunting? that's kinda annoying

-Indy
Even more annoying when you have to pay for the permit. :mad:

[flyingbrick]

I have a Marlin .17HMR and a Remington Model 7 in 7mm08.

The Marlin is like a sniper rifle for bunnies- is VERY accurate and has a sweet thick semi target type barrel.

The Remington rifle is beatutiful compact and light- perfect for me as im not a large guy and heavy rifles would become very heavy when walking long distances. Its a bit heavy for goats but the old mans got many rifles which cover near any possible need.

Anyone need pest control in the waikato area?

http://file011b.bebo.com/1/original/2007/09/05/11/3952547446a5473633835o.jpg

[Indiana_Jones]

Here's a pic of mine

-Indy

[Swoop]

The "fully optioned" rifle...

[Slingshot]

This may be a repost, but it does seem appropriate for this thread:

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[ghost]

Has anyone had any experience with fully suppressed centerfire's? One of them shiny rugers with full length suppresor in .308 seems to be the go....... just wondering what the usability, carryability, shootability, quietability is like. Im looking mainly at using the quick stuff not subsonic, so not wanting complete quite..... yet.

[Wolf]

Cool, I just noticed the poll was reactivated so I could put in my tuppence-worth

[scumdog]

Has anyone had any experience with fully suppressed centerfire's? One of them shiny rugers with full length suppresor in .308 seems to be the go....... just wondering what the usability, carryability, shootability, quietability is like. Im looking mainly at using the quick stuff not subsonic, so not wanting complete quite..... yet.

They make about the same noise as an unsuppresed .22 magnum.

[Swoop]

Has anyone had any experience with fully suppressed centerfire's? One of them shiny rugers with full length suppresor in .308 seems to be the go...
A mate has a .300 Whisper with all the correct running gear. Ridiculosly quiet!

Have played with an L1A1 with screw-on suppressor and that is like a .22 magnum. Not a bad reduction for a .308.

... I have also had a 12 Guage shotgun with a suppressor demonstrated to me... inside a shop!
A huge laugh!!!:cool:

[flyingbrick]

Has anyone had any experience with fully suppressed centerfire's? One of them shiny rugers with full length suppresor in .308 seems to be the go....... just wondering what the usability, carryability, shootability, quietability is like. Im looking mainly at using the quick stuff not subsonic, so not wanting complete quite..... yet.


Just shoot through a pillow/ cushion like all the gangsters do :shutup:


Silenced shotgun!!!!? did it work alright?

[Wolf]

Have played with an L1A1 with screw-on suppressor and that is like a .22 magnum. Not a bad reduction for a .308.
And the award for Understatement of The Century goes to... Swoop!

The day I fired an L1A1, I thought we'd have the Noise Abatement crew from Hamilton turning up to have a word with us - and we were out at Te Miro Reserve!

[Swoop]

Silenced shotgun!!!!? did it work alright?
:yes:
Difficult to describe the "sound" that did come out.
Nothing that you could believe was a "shot" being fired.

[Indiana_Jones]

Can anyone let me know if they have or see a Mosin Nagant for sale? 91/30 version please.

Useless arseholes at "reloaders" are hopeless.

-Indy

[Swoop]

Useless arseholes at "reloaders" are hopeless.
Why is this?
I have found them to be excellent.

[Indiana_Jones]

I put down 1/2 the payment for a Nagant in the shop and said "ok will you put on back for me?", meaning one of the ones they had in the shop right then, and they go "sure sure". I even told them it'd be a while before I get it and they said it'll be fine.

Go to get it, "oh we don't have any nagants in stock", the worst part is the attitude I got from them, didn't care at all.

Maybe I'm just unlucky....

-Indy

[HenryDorsetCase]

you're an unsecured creditor! get your money back now! what if they go tits up?

[Indiana_Jones]

Well I am thinking about getting my money back and going elsewhere, just need to find that piece of paper that says i paid them lol

-Indy

[ghost]

They make about the same noise as an unsuppresed .22 magnum.

I have read that too, but thought that they should be a bit quieter that that. Not that the .22 mag is overly noisy but if its just the sonic crack of the projectile a suppresor that size should be very effective on the muzzle blast. Having seen the suppressed AW's in use (from the safe end) I thought they should be a bit better than that. Maybe I should just buy one and find out.........

[chrisso]

I just watched a doco on machine guns. Best was the Yank A10 Warthog plane that fires 30mm rounds, can empty its mag of 4200 rounds in 12 secs!
Each round is about300 mm long & the projectile weighs 0.5 kg.Yeeehaaaaa:eek:

[sinister^]

Pump action steel bb shotgun

[Indiana_Jones]

Cleaning my gun now, just been down at the range with Renegade Master, quite enjoyed myself. The TOZ was nice to shoot with once I got her zeroed in :yes:

-Indy

[P38]

Wheres the all of the above option.!!!!

This thread is useless without pics!:msn-wink:

[P38]

I just watched a doco on machine guns. Best was the Yank A10 Warthog plane that fires 30mm rounds, can empty its mag of 4200 rounds in 12 secs!
Each round is about300 mm long & the projectile weighs 0.5 kg.Yeeehaaaaa:eek:

If you'd like to watch some real fire power being unleashed get yourself onto You Tube and search for the GAU-8 videos.

You'll be amazed.

[Indiana_Jones]

Wheres the all of the above option.!!!!

This thread is useless without pics!:msn-wink:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1590698&postcount=1424

only a baby, but she's mine lol

-Indy

[Bend-it]

If you'd like to watch some real fire power being unleashed get yourself onto You Tube and search for the GAU-8 videos.

You'll be amazed.

The GAU-8 IS the gun on the A-10

[Indiana_Jones]

Enough talk, let's go shooting!

Who has a farm etc near Auckland?!

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

Indy's new gun...

:love:

-Indy

[Wolf]

Indy's new gun...

:love:

-Indy
Shit, those Mosin-Nagants look hideous, don't they. Excellent score, dude. Mine lacked the scope, just had the old iron sights.

[Indiana_Jones]

Shit, those Mosin-Nagants look hideous, don't they. Excellent score, dude. Mine lacked the scope, just had the old iron sights.

I think they're beautiful lol

-Indy

[Wolf]

I think they're beautiful lol

-Indy
So do I. They just lack the "cosmetic refinements" of other weapons. Starkly functional, that's them.

[Indiana_Jones]

Yea, just gotta love all the wood on them!

that's the best thing about old guns, the wood goes all the way up, not 1/2 way like the guns of today!

-Indy

[deanohit]

Use one of these babies instead! :crazy:The NEW .825 G&S Online Express Magnum (http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm)

[Wolf]

Use one of these babies instead! :crazy:The NEW .825 G&S Online Express Magnum (http://www.chuckhawks.com/825_magnum.htm)
Hehehe:


From the last quarter of the 19th Century through the first quarter of the 20th Century, standard revolver cartridges such as the .45 Long Colt (the "world's most powerful revolver cartridge" at that time) and the relatively flat shooting .38 Special High Speed (loaded to maximum average pressures--MAP--up to about 20,000 psi) were considered to be all that was required for any handgun purpose afield. But by the mid-1920s game had gotten harder to kill and the standard velocity handgun cartridges were no longer sufficient for the task, even at very close range.
Or just perhaps modern hunters are getting sloppy with bullet placement and stalking skills. I somewhat doubt that natural selection is working fast enough to produce more-bulletproff animals since the 1920s.

Given that so many handgunners in the USA seem to need to spend a fortune "accurizing" the weapons with aftermarket add-ons and smithing, I submit that they really ought to get down to the range more often and hone their shooting skills and then start working on "pressure shooting" so that their accuracy doesn't go to shit when "Buck Fever" kicks in out in the field.

So much better making a bullet so huge that they can kill the deer by shooting it in the hoof.

[scumdog]

Who's heard of 'howda pistols'?

Carried in the howda ( the wicker-basket thingy on the back of an elephant wot ya ride in)when tiger hunting 'back in the day' in case one of the occupants only winged a tiger and it got a tad scratchy and decided to make a meal of the howda occupants.

These pistols were kept handy to dissuade the said limpy tiger from climbing the elephants arse to get to the howda.

A lot were 577 Snyder calibre, most double-barrel but a few were four barreled, I guess some tigers could take a bit of 'dissuading' eh?

[Wolf]

A lot were 577 Snyder calibre, most double-barrel but a few were four barreled, I guess some tigers could take a bit of 'dissuading' eh?
I think that if I had a tiger crawling up the arse of an elephant towards me I'd need a lot more than 4 shots to "dissuade" it - I'd be lucky not to shoot the elephant and my travelling companions within the first 6 shots never mind hit the fucking tiger.

[Mr Merde]

In the 19th Century, large calibre revolver and single shot pistols ruled. The standard cavalry revolver for the US was .45.

By the end of the century this had been reduced to .38

In 1905 the US military were at war in the Phillipines and found that the .38 was not heavy enough to cope with the fanatical "Moro" fighters so the reverted back to the .45 calibre.

After another 70 years they reverted back to a smaller calibre in favour of larger capacity.

Elmer Keith pushed the development of the .44 Magnum pistol round. He over loaded the venerable .44 spl from 1906 (which originated as the .44 Russian in the 1870's). The .44 Magnum was considered the most powerful pistol calibre in the world and considered all that was needed for everything but the largest of game.

Keith and others worked with pistols in this calibre and were accurate up to ranges of 600 yards.

Now we have the 454 Casull and the .500 S & W.

What I am trying to point out here is that this movement from small calibre to large and back again has been going o for a very long time.



The original cartridge round was the .22 rimfire and developed by Messrs Smith and Wesson in the 1850's.

I have seen and handled a pistol in 2mm calibre. Not fired it though.

[Indiana_Jones]

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-Indy

[jrandom]

USA Supreme Court rules for the first time ever on Second Amendment rights: link (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91HS2EO0&show_article=1).

Summary: A narrow majority of SC judges think that the Second Amendment is not bound solely to the 'militia' concept. Shooters are happy because they can now own pistols in DC.

Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller) on the case here.

[Mr Merde]

USA Supreme Court rules for the first time ever on Second Amendment rights: link (http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D91HS2EO0&show_article=1).

Summary: A narrow majority of SC judges think that the Second Amendment is not bound solely to the 'militia' concept. Shooters are happy because they can now own pistols in DC.

Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller) on the case here.

And if I remember correctly the 2nd Ammendmant was lifted almost verbatum from the English Bill of Rights from 1600 and something. A bill of rights that our political and justice system has its roots in.

[jrandom]

And if I remember correctly the 2nd Ammendmant was lifted almost verbatum from the English Bill of Rights from 1600 and something.

Wikipedia, as you'd expect, has an extensive Second Amendment article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution ).

[Swoop]

A very interesting read.

[Mr Merde]

Wikipedia, as you'd expect, has an extensive Second Amendment article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution ).

I did say remember, you have to allow that us old bastards may have been around at the time (or feel like we were) the original bill was drafted.

[Swoop]

Hey Scummy. Was that your letter in the latest NZ Guns magazine?

[scumdog]

Hey Scummy. Was that your letter in the latest NZ Guns magazine?


Coul be, could be.....;)

[Mr Merde]

Did any one see this program last night.

The snippet on the attempted shooting of a dog by armed police and the resulting report on such was of particular interest to myself.

Watched the video a couple of times and was shocked by the careless manner in which firearms were discharged and handled.

In one part of the video you can see the officer on the left of the sceen actually pointing his "Bushmaster" in the direction of other officers.

That many shots fired at ranges down to a few metres and not one hit on the target. One bullet #13, went through the corner of a house completely.

This whole article was of interest as I was reading the SSANZ report in the latest copy of "NZ Guns and Hunting" and they mentioned there that the firearm of choice for our police officers is tending more towards this rifle rather than the handgun.


I should mention that I am not "police bashing " here. I am expressing an opinion regarding training and use of firearms that if I were to be seen doing would more than likely cost me my firearms licence. After 40 years of firearms use I am very worried about the lessening of safety standards anywhere

This frightens me more than I care to think of.

Your thoughts and comments please.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/1885787

[scumdog]

Did any one see this program last night.

The snippet on the attempted shooting of a dog by armed police and the resulting report on such was of particular interest to myself.

Watched the video a couple of times and was shocked by the careless manner in which firearms were discharged and handled.

In one part of the video you can see the officer on the left of the sceen actually pointing his "Bushmaster" in the direction of other officers.

That many shots fired at ranges down to a few metres and not one hit on the target. One bullet #13, went through the corner of a house completely.

This whole article was of interest as I was reading the SSANZ report in the latest copy of "NZ Guns and Hunting" and they mentioned there that the firearm of choice for our police officers is tending more towards this rifle rather than the handgun.


I should mention that I am not "police bashing " here. I am expressing an opinion regarding training and use of firearms that if I were to be seen doing would more than likely cost me my firearms licence. After 40 years of firearms use I am very worried about the lessening of safety standards anywhere

This frightens me more than I care to think of.

Your thoughts and comments please.

http://tvnz.co.nz/view/video_popup_windows_skin/1885787


OK, MY take on the bushmaster vs Glock.

I'm for the Bushmaster because:
It has a manual safety, it is harder to wave aimlessly, it is easier to keep on target, and unless you're Rambo you aim it - the Glock tends to be pointed in the heat of the moment. (as per TV news).


The comment in NZG&H is very misleading (as was the one where I responded with my letter) because until the 60's Police used 303s - now there's a weapon that WILL punch through a house wall or two easily (and through three people too).

Then they went to 223 with the Sakos, then the Remmingtons and now the Bushmaster, major difference is the Bushmaster of course is semi-auto.

SSANZ is repidly loosing credibility in my eyes with it's nonsensical comments in NZG&H.

[Swoop]

Your thoughts and comments please.
Same rule as always... If a policeman points a gun at you stand very still!
Not because you are complying, but because he will have f*ck all chance of hitting you.
(Old joke, still running, with a few police colleagues that I shoot against.)

[Swoop]

Lee-Enfield Lives.

July 2, 2008: Indian police in Himachal Pradesh recently agreed to sell several hundred Lee-Enfield rifles, and thousands of rounds of World War II vintage ammunition, to police in Jharkhand. Himachal Pradesh (an Indian state just south of Kashmir) wants to buy more modern weapons. Jharkhand (in eastern India) is having problems with communist rebels, and the bolt action Lee-Enfields are adequate for arming local voluntary security units. Since many of these volunteers belong to tribes out in the countryside, they like having a fine, if elderly, hunting rifle like the Lee-Enfield.

The Lee-Enfield is one of the oldest, and still widely used, rifles on the planet. Over 17 million were manufactured between 1895 and the 1980s. While there are more AK-47s out there (over 20 million in private hands), these are looked down on by those who use their rifles for hunting, or killing with a minimum expenditure of ammunition. The 8.8 pound Lee-Enfield is a bolt-action rifle (with a ten round magazine) noted for its accuracy and sturdiness. The inaccurate AK-47 has a hard time hitting anything more than a hundred meters away, while the Lee-Enfield can drop an animal, or a man, at over 400 meters.

There are millions of Lee-Enfields still in use throughout India, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and even Iraq and other Persian Gulf nations. These are largely World War II leftovers. In the early half of the 20th century, the British gave out millions of these weapons to allies, or those being courted. Noting the accuracy of the Lee-Enfield (.303 caliber, or 7.7mm), the locals came to prize the rifle for hunting, and self-defense. There are still many gunsmiths throughout the region (and at least one factory in India) that will refurbish century old Lee-Enfields to "like new" condition. Ammunition is still manufactured, with the high quality stuff going for a dollar a round, and lesser quality for 25 cents a round. These rifles sell in the west for $500-1,000. Non-firing replicas can be had for a few hundred bucks, and for about twice that you can buy deactivated (cannot be fired) originals. So the Lee-Enfield will carry on well into the 21st century.

[Wolf]

Lee-Enfield Lives.

The venerable "Smelly". That was one of my learning weapons as a nipper. I have a friend who had a tidy little collection of them before he got rid of it - to me.

Only got one of them left now.

I've got to agree with the quote - I'll take a SMLE over an AK any day (though I'd probably prefer one of the "sporterised" or "cut-down" versions when trudging through the woods with a rifle).

[deanohit]

The venerable "Smelly". That was one of my learning weapons as a nipper. I have a friend who had a tidy little collection of them before he got rid of it - to me.

Only got one of them left now.

I've got to agree with the quote - I'll take a SMLE over an AK any day (though I'd probably prefer one of the "sporterised" or "cut-down" versions when trudging through the woods with a rifle).
My Grandad still uses a sporter for hunting, had it many years now. :clap:

[alanzs]

I'm off to LA in the morning. I'll definitely be heading back to a favourite indoor firing range to shoot a few handguns. My favourite .45 is calling my name. Great fun! :2guns:

http://www.firingline.net/northridge/

[Wolf]

I'm off to LA in the morning. I'll definitely be heading back to a favourite indoor firing range to shoot a few handguns. My favourite .45 is calling my name. Great fun! :2guns:

http://www.firingline.net/northridge/
Happy shooting. Hope you are more accurate and methodical with your shooting than that smiley...

[Wolf]

From their site:

FOR SAFETY REASONS!!
If you bring your own ammunition...
It must be Full Metal Jacket (FMJ, TMJ, CMJ) or completely lead.
Hollow point, steel core, or soft point/semi-jacketed bullets are NOT allowed.

Wolf Brand ammunition is NOT allowed
bwahahahahahaha! I don't fucking blame them. That budget shite gives other budget shite a bad name.

[alanzs]

Happy shooting. Hope you are more accurate and methodical with your shooting than that smiley...

I happen to be a really good shot. :clap: I've been shooting since I was about 10 years old (39 years ago). I was taught to respect firearms and was trained accordingly, been to a few firearms training courses as well. It's great fun.

[scumdog]

I happen to be a really good shot. :clap: I've been shooting since I was about 10 years old (39 years ago). I was taught to respect firearms and was trained accordingly, been to a few firearms training courses as well. It's great fun.

Them US ranges are the schizz eh?

Full autos, pistols etc - all stuff not so easy to access in NZ.

Love it when I'm there.

[alanzs]

From their site:

bwahahahahahaha! I don't fucking blame them. That budget shite gives other budget shite a bad name.

The range has about 20 lanes for shooting. They have a rule that you're not to shoot more than one round per second. I was a member for a few years. One time I was there, a rat crept onto the range. Within about two seconds, almost everyone shot that poor miserable rodent into tiny bits. The range Marshall quickly ordered everyone to "stop shooting" over the loud speaker. God damn, that was really fun!

When you approach the front door, there is a huge red stop sign, warning you to not enter without your weapon's breech being opened, and weapon unloaded as you WILL BE SHOT! All the workers there, for obvious reasons, carry handguns.
:rolleyes:

[alanzs]

Them US ranges are the schizz eh?

Full autos, pistols etc - all stuff not so easy to access in NZ.

Love it when I'm there.

I agree. Whenever we would have friends over from NZ, we'd take them to the range. They just couldn't believe that you can just walk in and rent a gun and shoot away. They used to espeically like the targets that looked like a sihouette of a person. How cool and un-PC is that?

We used to joke that we can go out to the desert and shoot cans; Mexicans, Central Americans, African Americans. heheheheee... So naughty!

In Vegas, if you ever get the chance, you can rent fully automatic machine guns. They're a total blast to shoot.

[scumdog]

In Vegas, if you ever get the chance, you can rent fully automatic machine guns. They're a total blast to shoot.
Too right - but the buggers wouldn't let me bring my own ammo - and their prices were a tad step.

Lake Havasu City AZ has a better deal.

[sAsLEX]

Full autos, pistols etc - all stuff not so easy to access in NZ.

Depends where you work really!


In Vegas, if you ever get the chance, you can rent fully automatic machine guns. They're a total blast to shoot.

Yes, yes they are.

Shame the horses that roam around the ranges in Wiberia aren't allowed to be shot......... unlike your rat!

[alanzs]

Depends where you work really!


Yes, yes they are.

Shame the horses that roam around the ranges in Wiberia aren't allowed to be shot......... unlike your rat!

That when night shooting is handy...:eek5:

[sAsLEX]

That when night shooting is handy...:eek5:

When the RSM suggests you don't shoot them....... well generally you never ignore the RSM

[alanzs]

Too right - but the buggers wouldn't let me bring my own ammo - and their prices were a tad step.

Lake Havasu City AZ has a better deal.

They are a rip, but just the uniqueness of doing it is fun. The problem is fully automatic shoots a lot of rounds, really fast! I'll have to try Havasu next time I'm in the area.
Cheers!

[alanzs]

When the RSM suggests you don't shoot them....... well generally you never ignore the RSM

Fair enough. We wouldn't want to give hunters a bad name either. Not like them bloody bikers! :eek5:

[Wolf]

I happen to be a really good shot. :clap: I've been shooting since I was about 10 years old (39 years ago). I was taught to respect firearms and was trained accordingly, been to a few firearms training courses as well. It's great fun.
I wasn't disparaging you, cobber, just that Gung-Ho pistol-packin' smiley.

[alanzs]

I wasn't disparaging you, cobber, just that Gung-Ho pistol-packin' smiley.

I didn't take it that way at all. I agree, the smiley isn't aiming accurately at all.

As said so well in Scarface "Say hello to me little friend..." :laugh:

Shhhh, I'm just whore posting, as I am off work.... :doh:

100th page!!!!!!!

[sAsLEX]

Wish list

http://www.snipercentral.com/images/reviews/spst4.jpg

[pete376403]

get one of these, do it properly...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-znkaHW-SQ&feature=related

[The Pastor]

Wish list...
what is it?

[Delerium]

Looks like a remmington 770 maybe. with a heavy barrel.

[deanohit]

Looks like a .223, not sure which brand though.

[Swoop]

Remington 700, .308???
Looks similar to my 700P.

[deanohit]

Ha, "Remington" gave it away!
Remington 700 SPS Tactical.

[doc]

Wish list

Would have quoted with pic but not allowed with an embeded image

Nice simple choice, presume you would use a Khales.

[sAsLEX]

Remington 700, .308???
Looks similar to my 700P.

Hey would be nice but aint got that coin, but its only the stock that is different to the P so can always upgrade at a later time.

Off to sea for a bit soon to save money for the purchase, don't think it will stretch to Khales though

[Swoop]

its only the stock that is different to the P so can always upgrade at a later time.
Ahh.
I was surprised with the palm-swell pistol grip on the stock. It dosen't look like much, but feels radically different to a conventional stock. Strange.

[sAsLEX]

Nice simple choice

If money was no object.

http://mcmfamily.com/images/rifles/tac-50.jpg

Rep for first to tell the record this holds.

[sAsLEX]

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Amazing that they can shoot decent groups at all with the amount of movement and shock going into the scope!

[deanohit]

The Tac-50 was used to take out a Taliban guy at a range of 2430 meters, the longest recorded sniper kill in history and the current world record.

[deanohit]

Amazing that they can shoot decent groups at all with the amount of movement and shock going into the scope!
Easy to see why they lose the sight picture and have a spotter to keep an eye on things for them.