The firearm thread

[jono035]

wow. never realised this thread was here. or that so many were into guns on here. i have found my happy place.

Yeah, there's a few of us here.

What do you shoot?

[stifmyster1]

havent been able to do much. done both clay target and small bore shooting through my highschool a few years back and got a .270 that my dad owns which has yet to see any use. Plus im an airsoft player. Been wanting to go hunting for years but main issue has been either not enough money or when we did have enough we had knowhere to actually go.

Had fun taking out magpies and plovers with a .22 at my mates though. missed a mag pie at 180m but half a center metre due to a wind shift.

[puddytat]

Ive just purchased a SKS short barrelled....just waiting on it to turn up then Im going to go and blow a lot of holes in a hill, to get to know it & see how accurate it is or isnt:yes:
I think they've made about 20 gazzilion of 'em so I figure a few of you's probably have one or have had one.

[Mr Merde]

Just arrived yesterday.

12 A0 pages of immaculate plans for an 1875 marlin Ballard target rifle.

Looks bloody wonderful. Spent 4 hours pouring over them.

Now to buy in some steel then take both plans and steel to son in law for milling out.

Plans are for everything but the barrel. 3 different stocksns buttplate combinations. Also full bore and .22 plans

There is even plans for a double set trigger unit.

Brilliant.

Looked at their product list and they have the same for a number of firearms.

Thinking about a P38, an AK47, and a Liberator pistol.

Nirvana

[cruza]

Ive just purchased a SKS short barrelled....just waiting on it to turn up then Im going to go and blow a lot of holes in a hill, to get to know it & see how accurate it is or isnt:yes:
I think they've made about 20 gazzilion of 'em so I figure a few of you's probably have one or have had one.

Brought 2 last year, had a play with one last week when we went camping with the boys. did 1" to 1 1/2" at 50 mtres open sights, with russian fmj. Was quite surprised , will get the triggers looked at later on , way to much creep.
good buying for a pig or bush rifle thru.

[Swoop]

Ive just purchased a SKS. I figure a few of you's probably have one or have had one.
:yes:

I'm on my second one (sold the first). Superb for goats.
I posted earlier in the thread a photo of the current sights fitted. A nice compact scope that allows for clear ejection of the spent cases.
Great out to around 150yds and superb in the bush.

[sAsLEX]

Arms (Military Style Semi-Automatic Firearms and Import Controls) Amendment
Bill - (285-1)

This bill amends the Arms Act to amend the definition of military style
semi-automatic firearms and place restrictions on the importation of
airguns that look like restricted weapons.

On the 10th of May this bill was given its first reading in Parliament.
Submissions to the select committee are to be in by 16th of June. The
second reading is set down for the 4th of August. As you can see time to
get submissions in is short.

I cannot stress enough how important it is for as many submissions as
possible to be made. WE ALL need to educate ourselves about this bill,
learn what is at stake and make a submission to the select committee.

The Law and Order Select Committee must be given a clear message that this
Bill will not be accepted.

If made law this amendment to the Arms Act will allow the commissioner of
Police to persuade the executive to declare any firearm (with the exception
of pistols) to be a restricted MSSA. There will be no requirement in any
way shape or form for the firearm to be semi automatic. A definition of
MSSA is whatever the Act says it is and in this case an MSSA is defined as
being whatever the police say. At a very minimum all semi automatics are in
danger of being classed as MSSA's.

Make no mistake. The Police are trying to pull a swift one in the hope that
it will go unnoticed.

This Bill is the Police's response to losing the court case taken against
them by Richard Lincoln of the National Shooters Association who refused to
accept the Police change of interpretation of the phrase "military pattern
free-standing pistol grip". Apparently they will not accept a High Court
Judges decision (but interestingly did not appeal the decision) and have
come up with this ill conceived Bill.

The NSA (National Shooters Association) have put a huge amount of work into
fighting this Bill already. Please visit the website www.nsanz.org.nz There you
will find all the resources needed to make a submission.

The closing date for submissions is Thursday, 16 June 2011

You know what needs to be done. Doing nothing is not an option.

[thehollowmen]

Can anybody recommend a .22 for big people? I've got huge arms, and most rifles feel like toys in my hands. I've hefted a few around and I need an extra 4-6 inches in the stock, and maybe an extra foot of grip under the barrel.

Yep, my arms are THAT huge.

[Indiana_Jones]

If you're lucky enough to find one, a No. 4 Enfield that's been converted to .22? :)

-Indy

[puddytat]

:yes:

I'm on my second one (sold the first). Superb for goats.
I posted earlier in the thread a photo of the current sights fitted. A nice compact scope that allows for clear ejection of the spent cases.
Great out to around 150yds and superb in the bush.

Oh goody, sounds like they're not to bad then....yeah ive looked at a few scope options on trademe, one i liked the look of allows you to still use the open sights. How many pages back do youm reckon those pics were here SWOOP? On dial up so its all sooooooo ssssssssssssssssssssssssllllllllllllllllllllllllll llllllllllloooooooooooooowwwwwwwww!!!

[Swoop]

How many pages back do youm reckon those pics were here SWOOP?
:facepalm:
I bloody knew that someone would ask that question...


Page 129. Post 1921.






(the things I do around here...):rofl:

[BornAgainBiker]

Hi all Just joined and spotted this thread, excellent to see.
I to hunt also, In my collection is my XBolt 308, Mag, U/O shotty and a air pistol for the possum's that annoy me at huts:shutup:

[stifmyster1]

xbolt. nice. a mate of mine wanted one of those. he reckoned that it felt like cocking it in space. no drag whatso ever.

[BornAgainBiker]

xbolt. nice. a mate of mine wanted one of those. he reckoned that it felt like cocking it in space. no drag whatso ever.

Yep they are a nice bit of kit, but the triggers are not quite there untill you get a tigger job done, then its all good.:yes:

[stifmyster1]

what type of triggers are the single or 2 stage. ive found i prefer two stae because i pout the trigger to its first stage. then perform my final breath out as i squeeze the trigger. single stages i found it took longer for me to realise when the shot would happen so my breathing was off.

[BornAgainBiker]

what type of triggers are the single or 2 stage. ive found i prefer two stae because i pout the trigger to its first stage. then perform my final breath out as i squeeze the trigger. single stages i found it took longer for me to realise when the shot would happen so my breathing was off.

XBolt is single stage but the factory adjustment would only adjust down to around 3 lb which I found still to high now its down to 1 1/2 lb and so much more crisper, but I can still adjust it back up to a heaver setting if wanted.

[Drunken Monkey]

new toy...

<a href="http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w177/drunken_monkey6984/For%20Links/?action=view&amp;current=DSC00225.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w177/drunken_monkey6984/For%20Links/th_DSC00225.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>

[scumdog]

new toy...

<a href="http://s176.photobucket.com/albums/w177/drunken_monkey6984/For%20Links/?action=view&amp;current=DSC00225.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w177/drunken_monkey6984/For%20Links/th_DSC00225.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>

Hmm, the old man has a Belgian one in 30-06, complete with bayonet.

[Drunken Monkey]

Ah, upon closer inspection you may actually notice this is a .22 calibre version - in fact, the Norinco JW-25A copy of the Mauser KKW!

Looks the part, although I cheated by not including something to give the scale away...

[Wolf]

You're a shit, DM. :devil2:

Seriously aching to do some shooting. Just spent the day cleaning the "toys" (they get rusty just sitting around in the miserable Waikato climate) and wishing I had some place to blast off a few rounds.

[Mr Merde]

Very nice but I thought you were a committed .308 person.

BTW I have cleaned up the 243. Got rid of most of the surface rust and a lot of muck down the barrel. Some of the ammo you left is .308

Itching to pull the trigger on it.


Chris

[Drunken Monkey]

lol, I didn't say .308 was the only calibre I was going to use, just the only centrefire one I want. Ammo type consolidation mate, which is why the .22 magnum had to go. The mauser copy uses the same ammo as the 10/22, so it's all good :) The goal is 6 firearms and only 3 ammo types. Got 2 x .22's, 2 x 12 gauges and 1 x .308, so just need to sort out the .308 bolt action eventually and I'm a happy man.

RE: the .308 ammo that got mixed in, put it aside with the scope you're not using and I'll collect next time we meet up.

Sounds like we're all overdue for another shoot - we need to organise something, even if it's getting off our arses and arranging a group hire of one of the club ranges.

[Wolf]

Sounds like we're all overdue for another shoot - we need to organise something, even if it's getting off our arses and arranging a group hire of one of the club ranges.
I'm up for that if it's on a kid-free weekend. Ideally some place with a 25m and 200m range so I can do some sighting in before dealing to some ammo.

How's the "new range" plan going, Chris?

[Beren]

I will be sifting through the thread to see if this has come up much before... but after 9 months living up in kaukapakapa a rifle is very high on my wish list and thought you guys might have some recommendations...

Currently we have a .177 air rifle which is fine for pinging cans etc. But we have quite a few bunnies and pheasants that I would deeply like to put in the pot and it just doesn't have any stopping power at all.

The neighbours have also said that we get a few deer in the valley below us so I might want to be able to take down some mid sized game as well as small animals.

It also needs to be a rifle that my reasonably small fiance can fire without massive recoil issues.

So ideal situation -
Probably something .22 calibre, potentially slightly larger but certainly not .303
Preferably something scoped - I am only barely OK over open sights
Potentially something with some supression? I have seen multiple targets several times...
If supression then I guess semi-automatic would also be good.

There are lots of random brands I know nothing about on TradeMe and some guidance would be gratefully recieved!

[Beren]

Hope it's not bad etiquette but just thought - If people are stuck for somewhere to fire guns I have 4 acres of native bush in a very nice gully (So unless you are going to fire into the air it's gauranteed dead ground.) If it gave me the opportunity to test fire a few different firearms I am sure I could be tempted into cutting torsos out of the 20 odd boxes left over from moving to make an interesting walk through target shoot.

The only issue is that KKK is a bit of a ways north for you Auckland peeps - We are on the awesome SH16 if people wanted to combine ride and shoot... though I guess carrying rifles on a bike could be a little um frowned upon by the fuzz.

[jono035]

I will be sifting through the thread to see if this has come up much before... but after 9 months living up in kaukapakapa a rifle is very high on my wish list and thought you guys might have some recommendations...

Currently we have a .177 air rifle which is fine for pinging cans etc. But we have quite a few bunnies and pheasants that I would deeply like to put in the pot and it just doesn't have any stopping power at all.

The neighbours have also said that we get a few deer in the valley below us so I might want to be able to take down some mid sized game as well as small animals.

It also needs to be a rifle that my reasonably small fiance can fire without massive recoil issues.

So ideal situation -
Probably something .22 calibre, potentially slightly larger but certainly not .303
Preferably something scoped - I am only barely OK over open sights
Potentially something with some supression? I have seen multiple targets several times...
If supression then I guess semi-automatic would also be good.

There are lots of random brands I know nothing about on TradeMe and some guidance would be gratefully recieved!

It all depends on what you want to spend, and what your tolerance is for buying 2nd hand.

This is basically the process I followed:

First things first: Get the firearms license process started if you haven't already. It can sometimes take a good while and there is nothing more frustrating than finding the perfect bargain on TradeMe and not having the license to buy it with. For storage, a $50 2 or 3 gun wallmount rack with a padlock is fine.

For the rifles, I'd say avoid trying to do too many things with the same rifle. You'll be much happier (and probably save money) buying a selection of rifles that do their job well than trying to do it all with one.

For bunnies, I'd get a cheap .22LR bolt action. You can often pick them up on trademe around $500 with a bag, suppressor and maybe an extra mag. A cheapie 3-9x40 or 4x32 scope will be perfectly adequate out to 50m. If you're keen, a 10/22 in stainless with a synthetic stock is good here, but I always recommend for people to start with a bolt action, it gets you into better safety habits. Probably $500 to $1500 depending on age/quality/extras.

I'm not sure about the pheasants, someone with more shotgun experience can chime in here, but there are plenty of decent single/double barrel 12 or 20 gauges on trademe for not much money, just make sure it can fire steel shot. Probably $3-400 second hand?

For deer, I'd say wait a while and see how it goes. If it's something that you're not likely to do all that often, see if you can find someone with a rifle you can borrow in exchange for a few beers or what have you. Another consideration is if you've got somewhere to shoot and sight-in the rifle at the ranges you're likely to want to use it at. A bolt action .243 would be my choice here as they're cheap, common, low recoil and enough rifle for pretty much anything you're likely to get in NZ. They suppress nicely, too, although the suppressors aren't cheap. Probably $1000 for a bargain with an average scope, $2k for a good used rifle or cheap new rifle with scope and suppressor.

General other notes:

Scopes - In my experience, a good scope on an average rifle will outshoot a good rifle with a cheap scope. Figure out how much you're happy to spend on the entire rifle (as a package with scope/mags/carry bags, cleaning gear etc.) and then budget to spend half of that on the rifle and split the rest among scope and extras.

[jono035]

Hope it's not bad etiquette but just thought - If people are stuck for somewhere to fire guns I have 4 acres of native bush in a very nice gully (So unless you are going to fire into the air it's gauranteed dead ground.) If it gave me the opportunity to test fire a few different firearms I am sure I could be tempted into cutting torsos out of the 20 odd boxes left over from moving to make an interesting walk through target shoot.

The only issue is that KKK is a bit of a ways north for you Auckland peeps - We are on the awesome SH16 if people wanted to combine ride and shoot... though I guess carrying rifles on a bike could be a little um frowned upon by the fuzz.

The offer is all good, I'm sure there will be a few of us Aucklanders considering it.

I assume you mean torso targets of animals, such as deer/pigs, right? Obviously human torso targets are likely to be frowned upon, as we New Zealanders are only allowed firearms for sporting purposes, and do not own weapons for defensive reasons... (cough...)

[Indiana_Jones]

If you're after a semi .22, I reckon a Ruger 10/22 would be great.

If you're after a bolt action, lots of people stand by the Norinco ones :)

Can scope both of those, 4x32 scope would be more than enough.

*Waits for Chris to correct me lol*

Edit: I see Jono got there before I lol

-Indy

[jono035]

If you're after a semi .22, I reckon a Ruger 10/22 would be great.

If you're after a bolt action, lots of people stand by the Norinco ones :)

Can scope both of those, 4x32 scope would be more than enough.

*Waits for Chris to correct me lol*

Edit: I see Jono got there before I lol

-Indy

All good, yours was far more succint :p

[Beren]

It all depends on what you want to spend, and what your tolerance is for buying 2nd hand. Oops forgot that bit - I think $3-500 is about my budget - It's birthday time in August... so will combine presents from different people for rifle bags etc...


First things first: Get the firearms license process started if you haven't already. It can sometimes take a good while and there is nothing more frustrating than finding the perfect bargain on TradeMe and not having the license to buy it with. For storage, a $50 2 or 3 gun wallmount rack with a padlock is fine. Cool was wondering about storage - I can set that up in a lockable area in the shed for slightly more security.

I'm not sure about the pheasants, someone with more shotgun experience can chime in here... Ahh I can see them feeding on the ground so will be taking them with the same rifle... I can get to 25m from them and will be very dissapointed if I can't headshot a bird from that range!


For deer, I'd say wait a while and see how it goes. If it's something that you're not likely to do all that often, see if you can find someone with a rifle you can borrow in exchange for a few beers or what have you. Another consideration is if you've got somewhere to shoot and sight-in the rifle at the ranges you're likely to want to use it at. A bolt action .243 would be my choice here as they're cheap, common, low recoil and enough rifle for pretty much anything you're likely to get in NZ. They suppress nicely, too, although the suppressors aren't cheap. Probably $1000 for a bargain with an average scope, $2k for a good used rifle or cheap new rifle with scope and suppressor.
So potentially a .22 or a .243 if I can get one? Is the ammunition vastly different in price? .22 seems pretty cheap...


Scopes - In my experience, a good scope on an average rifle will outshoot a good rifle with a cheap scope. Figure out how much you're happy to spend on the entire rifle (as a package with scope/mags/carry bags, cleaning gear etc.) and then budget to spend half of that on the rifle and split the rest among scope and extras.We have a pretty damn good scope on the .177 (No idea quite why!) certainly good enough for shooting out to 100+ Yards and would be rather depressed if even a cheap rifle wasn't accurate to within an inch at that short a range. (Not the marksman mind you... I'm not bad but I am a LONG way from good!)

[jono035]

Extra random thoughts:

Suppressors: It's $50-100 to get a rifle threaded for a suppressor. For .22LR the plain hushpower suppressors like http://www.guncity.co.nz/hushpower-.22-silencer-black-xidp106342.html are pretty good and only $60. Those are proper baffled suppressors, where the cheaper ones are springs and washers which make them noticeably louder.

Scope rings: Lots of cheap ones out there that are a little on the crap side. Steel is best, but I've got a nice UK-made aluminium pair on my possum rifle at the moment. Assume $60 for an aluminium pair for a .22LR rifle and I'd spend $100-200 for a a steel pair for a centerfire rifle depending on the scope and rifle.

Scopes: I've got a Nikko-Stirling Laserking at the moment that was pretty damn good for the money, $130 from reloader's supplies.

[sAsLEX]

The only issue is that KKK is a bit of a ways north for you Auckland peeps - We are on the awesome SH16 if people wanted to combine ride and shoot... though I guess carrying rifles on a bike could be a little um frowned upon by the fuzz.

I carry mine around on my back.

Stopped and got petrol.... no questions.

Stopped and got fish and chips.... got into a conversation on the merits of the 10/22 with another customer.

All in the Auckland region, not game to try wandering into a bank though!

They do make "100" kmhr a bit tricky as they pull you back a touch.

[jono035]

Oops forgot that bit - I think $3-500 is about my budget - It's birthday time in August... so will combine presents from different people for rifle bags etc...

Cool was wondering about storage - I can set that up in a lockable area in the shed for slightly more security.

Ahh I can see them feeding on the ground so will be taking them with the same rifle... I can get to 25m from them and will be very dissapointed if I can't headshot a bird from that range!


So potentially a .22 or a .243 if I can get one? Is the ammunition vastly different in price? .22 seems pretty cheap...

We have a pretty damn good scope on the .177 (No idea quite why!) certainly good enough for shooting out to 100+ Yards and would be rather depressed if even a cheap rifle wasn't accurate to within an inch at that short a range. (Not the marksman mind you... I'm not bad but I am a LONG way from good!)

All good for the storage. Call the local arms officer if you've got any questions, he'll let you know what he prefers to see, really.

Pheasants - I was always brought up being told never to shoot fowl with a rifle because if you don't make the shot count, it can be pretty inhumane. That's all personal prefence though, really. If you're going for headshots then all good.

.22LR vs .243. The common calibers are .22LR (short stubby rimfire cartridge, most common round in the world), .223 (same diameter as .22LR but longer bullet, much bigger centerfire casing), .243 (slightly larger diameter bullet, much bigger casing again) and then .308 or .303 which are basically same case size as .243 but bigger bullets.

For rabbits I'd say .22LR is perfect to 50m, .223 is overkill unless at 50-150m, anything bigger is pointless.

Possums - .22LR or shotgun, everything else is too dangerous to fire into the air unless you're in a really uninhabited area

Deer - .223 is possible for Fallow depending on range and shot placement, but .243 is realistically a far better choice.

Price wise, good .22LR ammo can be had for around $10/100 (CCI Mini-Mag for high velocity, CCI Subsonic for a suppressed rifle) while anything centerfire is going to be more like $50/100 or higher. .22LR is also cheap enough that buying in 1000 round lots can get you a pretty good saving without breaking the bank.

I'd always say get a .22LR, no matter what else you get because you'll probably get far more enjoyment and use out of a .22LR and a 1000 round brick of ammo than you will out of a .243 with 100 rounds.

As for budget - is that all up for the entire process? It'll cost you $150-200 to apply (can't remember, was a while back) and then $50 for a rack, $50 for a cleaning kit so you're already making in-roads into that.

For the best bang for your buck, keep an eye on trademe for second hand Norincos. They're nothing fancy, but they shoot well and seem to be pretty rugged/reliable. There are always bargains to be had, as there is with any type of sporting gear.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Sports/Hunting-shooting/Rifles/auction-387290870.htm

$275 with decent scope and ready to go for a suppressor. Add a hushpower suppressor for $60 new or find one second hand and you're away.

Edit: Getting 1 inch groups at 100 yards is pretty much impossible with a .22LR, and is actually pretty good going for most centerfire hunting rifles. Getting within a 1-inch bullseye first shot is harder again. Realistically, 2" at 25m for an average hunting .22LR is probably going to be closer to the mark if fired from standing.

[The Pastor]

You have land to shoot off in Auckland? Will you marry (civil union?) me??

Mate what you wanna get is a .22 for the bunnies / possums or a shotgun, that can do bunnies, possum and brids. Shotgun would be the cheaper option, and will only have slightly less range than the 22.

If you get a 22, you can practice (since you have the land!) way cheaper, and get much better at shooting. Because 22's are quite and cheap, you can shoot 1000 more rounds than a big centre-fire.

As said, get yourself a 243, great rifle. But don't think ".303 or .308 is too big" all centre fire rifles will do the job great. I have shot a fallow with a 30-30 and a 308 and seen them shot with a 243, guess what, they were all dead. (ok maybe more meat wastage, but its a moot point).

Now, if you have a firearms licence, I have a .22 norinco, a 12ga shotgun and a 30-30 that your more than welcome to have a play around with. Even got some ammo to go with them too.

I also have a game camera that is a motion activated camera that you tie to a tree that takes pictures of any thing that walks past. Its an IR flash so it doesnt startle animals when taking the photos. It records time and date on the photos so you can set it up for a month and then see what the deers patterns are.

Now i'd fully recommend planting a crop of turnips and hanging a salt lick from a tree branch (so that the rain water drips off it onto a tree root/rock/grass) deer love that stuff. Also don't shoot them, until you know how many are in the area........ (may be a really small number) but with good feed available deer population will increase a lot. and what ever you do DONT TELL DOC!

Also, the reserve you have access to, you will need a doc permit to shoot on it, and it can be hard to get for north Auckland.

[Swoop]

Ruger 10/22.
Good and reliable. If you want to get a bit more accurate you can get a drop in trigger or a spring kit that will help the accuracy a little more.


Suppressors: It's $50-100 to get a rifle threaded for a suppressor.
The slip-on type work really well and do not require threading of the barrel.

[jono035]

Ruger 10/22.
Good and reliable. If you want to get a bit more accurate you can get a drop in trigger or a spring kit that will help the accuracy a little more.


The slip-on type work really well and do not require threading of the barrel.

The 2 I've played with were nowhere near as quiet as my hushpower and one of them didn't last long before splitting down the sides.

Better than nothing, though.

[Smokin]

i Have a Norinco .22 and a Ruger 10-22 and when i go on the Easter Bunny Hunt down in Alexandra I leave them both at home and take my Savage 93 .17HMR.
cost is on par with a 10-22 and they are worlds apart in performance.
Match it up with a good suppressor and the bunnies wont know what hit them, No problems picking them off from 200 meters if you have a high powered scope.
All my .22s do now is collect dust.

[stifmyster1]

hey guys. anyone have land that has bunnies. got .22, .270 and a shotgun. im keen to hunt something. never been before and figure that would be good to start off with bunnies,

[jono035]

i Have a Norinco .22 and a Ruger 10-22 and when i go on the Easter Bunny Hunt down in Alexandra I leave them both at home and take my Savage 93 .17HMR.
cost is on par with a 10-22 and they are worlds apart in performance.
Match it up with a good suppressor and the bunnies wont know what hit them, No problems picking them off from 200 meters if you have a high powered scope.
All my .22s do now is collect dust.

How does the ammo cost compare?

I'm going to stick with .22LR as a recommendation for the money, I don't think getting a decent setup in .17HMR is likely for $500.

[Beren]

You have land to shoot off in Auckland? Will you marry (civil union?) me??

If you get a 22, you can practice (since you have the land!) way cheaper, and get much better at shooting. Because 22's are quite and cheap, you can shoot 1000 more rounds than a big centre-fire.

Now, if you have a firearms licence, I have a .22 norinco, a 12ga shotgun and a 30-30 that your more than welcome to have a play around with. Even got some ammo to go with them too.

Also, the reserve you have access to, you will need a doc permit to shoot on it, and it can be hard to get for north Auckland.

We live on an 8 acre plot... 4 acres of which is a native bush gully that stretches for 800m ish - Do I need a doc permit to fire a gun on my own land?

I havn't seen any game to speak of in it, hardly even any possum damage, just the odd pheasant etc. I was thinking that I could very easilly rig shooting platforms etc down there for range style shooting. Both next door neighbours have more land - one runs sheep and would imagine there are plenty of wabbits and the other runs a ways down toward the harbour and has shot deer from his porch ;) - Strong possibilty that we could get some shooting on their land also.


As for budget - is that all up for the entire process? It'll cost you $150-200 to apply (can't remember, was a while back) and then $50 for a rack, $50 for a cleaning kit so you're already making in-roads into that.
The budget wouldn't include the license as we will get that before the gun... and I was planning on welding up my own gun rack - the ones I have seen in my budget dont seem anything like as secure as I could weld up myself.

[jono035]

We live on an 8 acre plot... 4 acres of which is a native bush gully that stretches for 800m ish - Do I need a doc permit to fire a gun on my own land?

I havn't seen any game to speak of in it, hardly even any possum damage, just the odd pheasant etc. I was thinking that I could very easilly rig shooting platforms etc down there for range style shooting. Both next door neighbours have more land - one runs sheep and would imagine there are plenty of wabbits and the other runs a ways down toward the harbour and has shot deer from his porch ;) - Strong possibilty that we could get some shooting on their land also.

The budget wouldn't include the license as we will get that before the gun... and I was planning on welding up my own gun rack - the ones I have seen in my budget dont seem anything like as secure as I could weld up myself.

Sounds good. Go for it with welding one up yourself, just make it way more sturdy than a commercial one to make sure the AO doesn't complain when he inspects it.

You won't need a DOC permit to shoot on your own land. Generally the limiting factor as to where you can shoot on your own land is what the safety envelope is for where bullets can safely head. If you're in a gully then as long as you're shooting downwards into soil and avoiding the trees then you're all good.

[The Pastor]

We live on an 8 acre plot... 4 acres of which is a native bush gully that stretches for 800m ish - Do I need a doc permit to fire a gun on my own land?

I havn't seen any game to speak of in it, hardly even any possum damage, just the odd pheasant etc. I was thinking that I could very easilly rig shooting platforms etc down there for range style shooting. Both next door neighbours have more land - one runs sheep and would imagine there are plenty of wabbits and the other runs a ways down toward the harbour and has shot deer from his porch ;) - Strong possibilty that we could get some shooting on their land also.

The budget wouldn't include the license as we will get that before the gun... and I was planning on welding up my own gun rack - the ones I have seen in my budget dont seem anything like as secure as I could weld up myself.

Sorry mate, thought you said you lived next to a crown reserve. You sound like you have an awesome little patch of land :)

Go for a wonder around your bush and look for any foot prints :) great spot to do a bit of deer tucker planting :D

[Beren]

Sounds good. Go for it with welding one up yourself, just make it way more sturdy than a commercial one to make sure the AO doesn't complain when he inspects it.
Cool - I intend for it to be way past the minimum commercial standard it will probably incorporate the RSJ structure in the shed to be absolutely immobile :)


You won't need a DOC permit to shoot on your own land. Generally the limiting factor as to where you can shoot on your own land is what the safety envelope is for where bullets can safely head. If you're in a gully then as long as you're shooting downwards into soil and avoiding the trees then you're all good.
Knowing where your bullets are going to land has always been the single most important thing I was taught. The incline on the gulley edges is nearly 45 degrees so almost and shot taken down there is gauranteed safe.

I will have a closer look at my ground at the weekend to see if there are any game signs - not having anything that I could hunt with I havn't looked all that hard - there is 5 strand wire all round the property but that wouldn't stop deer at all...

[stifmyster1]

hmm. liking thois patch of land. been looking for somehwere to test how good a shot i am. got a .270 so need at leat 400m to properly test my skills.

[The Pastor]

- there is 5 strand wire all round the property but that wouldn't stop deer at all...



Yes and no, Deer can easily get over a fence, but why would they want to? In my experience the deer will only jump a fence if been chased.

[jono035]

Cool - I intend for it to be way past the minimum commercial standard it will probably incorporate the RSJ structure in the shed to be absolutely immobile :)


Knowing where your bullets are going to land has always been the single most important thing I was taught. The incline on the gulley edges is nearly 45 degrees so almost and shot taken down there is gauranteed safe.

I will have a closer look at my ground at the weekend to see if there are any game signs - not having anything that I could hunt with I havn't looked all that hard - there is 5 strand wire all round the property but that wouldn't stop deer at all...

Glad to hear it all, sounds good! Once the weather gets a little more reliable, could always try re-convene the Onewhero Shooting Club up there, that'd bring out a few interesting toys for you to check out...

[Swoop]

one of them didn't last long before splitting down the sides.
Interesting. I bought mine in 1990 and it is still going strong.

[Shadows]

Interesting. I bought mine in 1990 and it is still going strong.

Try putting one on the Norinco I used to have. 2 shots or so and the front will have blown clean off. I blame it on the fact that the cheaparse piece of shit didn't actually have the bore down the centre of the barrel though, rather than anything being wrong with the moderator.

[Smokin]

How does the ammo cost compare?

I'm going to stick with .22LR as a recommendation for the money, I don't think getting a decent setup in .17HMR is likely for $500.

Ammo is quite a bit more expensive, You can buy a brick of 500 for around $200 but in saying that you dont have wastage that always happens with .22s.
Because they shoot so flat 90% of varmints you see are in range, sight them in to zero at 100 meters and have a crack at everything out to 200+ meters.
I said cost was on par with a 10/22 not a Norinco, you can buy a scoped savage 93r package for around $600, Marlin .17HMR's are normally a couple of bucks cheaper.

[Beren]

Awesome advice so far guys thanks!

In my price bracket it looks like I could be looking at:
Ruger 10/22
223 Norinco JW 105 or 7.62mm JW 103
Marlin .22
Polytech .223
.22LR Savage Mark II-F Suppressed
Norinco JW 23 .22lr

Plus anything else that happens to wander through trademe... is there a rough guide in terms of general quality? Thanfully my father-in-law knows a fair bit about rifles having been a competition shooter for the army... so I will be using his expertise on condition of second hand rifles (hence the over the top scope on the air rifle) but I am not sure he will know a lot about brands since he hasn't owned a gun in umm well I best not say incase he finds this thread ;p

[Drunken Monkey]

Looks like my fellow Onewhero 'club' guys have already answered most of your questions pretty well.

I'd add the Norinco JW-25 to the list of possibles, it's a German Mauser KKW (kar 98 style) copy, in .22 cal and is < $400 at the moment. Bloody good value and a nice looking rifle too.

I've got one of those and a Ruger 10/22 you can have a play with to see if you like them.

Had a .243 as well, a nice shooter. Loud, but easy on the recoil. The only thing is the ammo is even more expensive than .308 or .303, you'd be looking at $45 per box of 20 unless you load your own. .223 or 7.62x39 should be half that price, if you want to shoot a lot the difference adds up pretty quickly.

I did/do have a .243 (Merde's currently sitting on it), so I can't give you one of those to try out, but I've a couple of shotties for snotting possums you can have a look at too (one pump action and one semi-auto).

The usual etiquette is to throw an invite to the OG boys when you've sorted out a date. You supply a suitable range to shoot on and a BBQ. Then we'll bring guns, ammo, meat and drinks.

:)

[Wolf]

Another "Onewhero Gun Club" shooter chiming in, here. :)

Would definitely be interested in a shoot if it's on one of my free weekends. Will be able to bring up a couple of toys for you to try out in exchange for a chance to sight in my CZ 452-E ZKM.

AFAIK, the Norinco JW 23 is a Chinese copy of the CZ 452. I've heard some fairly good things about them but never tried one. I know the CZ is an excellent firearm (but quite pricey - mine cost bloody-near $800 new a number of years ago and they're up over $800 now)

If you threw on a bit of a bash for the "Onewhero Gun Club", I'm sure you'd have a lot of fun "toys" to try out - great group of people and always keen to encourage shooters to try out different firearms.

[Wolf]

I'm thinking of getting rid of my SKS in favour of something with a flatter trajectory if anyone's interested in buying/trading.

It's a Russian-made SKS that's been modified to comply with the definition of a "sporting semi-auto" - magazine cut down to five shots, bayonet lug removed. I have a synthetic hole-through stock for it and a crap-load of cheap FMJ (not suitable for reloading).

Looking to get myself a nice .243 or .308 bolt action to replace it.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Sons just bought a Fuji Super Skeet 12g ( rebranded S&W 1000) semi auto.
Anyone know anything about this model?

[Wolf]

I was directed to an interesting treatise on the lethality of the "little twenty-two" and I thought I would share it here.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1

Sadly the pics in the article seem to have expired but the write-up is good and informative.

Some of the comments in the thread are quite interesting - especially when the OP mentions that he later discovered that the "target" was still partially frozen inside.

One of the other posters reckoned that the .22lr is "the most dangerous round available" - I tend to agree...

Mainly because it is so seriously underestimated by so many people.

The piece got me hankering to head out with a supply of ammo, some "interesting" targets and the beloved CZ and do a few ballistics tests of my own.

[jono035]

I was directed to an interesting treatise on the lethality of the "little twenty-two" and I thought I would share it here.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=504301&fpart=1

Sadly the pics in the article seem to have expired but the write-up is good and informative.

Some of the comments in the thread are quite interesting - especially when the OP mentions that he later discovered that the "target" was still partially frozen inside.

One of the other posters reckoned that the .22lr is "the most dangerous round available" - I tend to agree...

Mainly because it is so seriously underestimated by so many people.

The piece got me hankering to head out with a supply of ammo, some "interesting" targets and the beloved CZ and do a few ballistics tests of my own.

That doesn't surprise me at all...

I'd 100% agree with the 'most dangerous round' assessment, although another aspect to that assertion is its truly bastardly tendency to richochet off anything more solid than a stiff breeze...

[Wolf]

That doesn't surprise me at all...

I'd 100% agree with the 'most dangerous round' assessment, although another aspect to that assertion is its truly bastardly tendency to richochet off anything more solid than a stiff breeze...
Surely you meant to say "including a stiff breeze"... :devil2:

[jono035]

Surely you meant to say "including a stiff breeze"... :devil2:

or 'anything more solid than a gentle breeze.'.. :p

[scumdog]

That doesn't surprise me at all...

I'd 100% agree with the 'most dangerous round' assessment, although another aspect to that assertion is its truly bastardly tendency to richochet off anything more solid than a stiff breeze...


Even more so when there's a silencer involved.:yes:

[Wolf]

Would so love to do some ballistic testing on various things. It's been ages since I've fired anything but airsoft or paintball and I'm feeling rather deprived. (note i not a)

[jasonu]

A bit of shooting after work last friday

[Vacquer0]

Looks like fun. We haven't been out in a few weeks. Is that a .45 acp? A favorite of mine. Two Hundredth Year Anniversary for that one. Still a great design.

[jasonu]

Looks like fun. We haven't been out in a few weeks. Is that a .45 acp? A favorite of mine. Two Hundredth Year Anniversary for that one. Still a great design.

It is a .45 Kimber about $1100 worth. Nice gun to shoot and dead accurate. The rifle is a Chinese SKS and the shotgun is my Mosberg 12ga.

[scumdog]

A bit of shooting after work last friday

The scenery around Bend reminded me a lot of inland Canterbury - Lake Tekapo area of NZ.

Jealous of your sunshine, cold + snow here today.

[jasonu]

The scenery around Bend reminded me a lot of inland Canterbury - Lake Tekapo area of NZ.

Jealous of your sunshine, cold + snow here today.

Yep that sums it up nicely. All of the outdoors stuff you could possibly want to do.
When were you here?
Since the economy tanked and Central Oregon was severely affected, Bend is now known as 'Poverty with a view'.

[scumdog]

Yep that sums it up nicely. All of the outdoors stuff you could possibly want to do.
When were you here?
Since the economy tanked and Central Oregon was severely affected, Bend is now known as 'Poverty with a view'.

Way back in '05.

Had a look at a '62 Ford Thunderbird for sale there - stayed the night there but didn't buy the car.

Bought my '66 Thunderbird fom Salem though.

A longish round trip from Salem to Bend via the 'scenic' route and back again.:yes:

[Wolf]

Anyone have an idea of how much I could realistically sell my Russian SKS for?

Reasonable condition, mag cut down to 5 shots and bayonet lug removed to comply with A cat licence, also have a synthetic hole-through stock for it and a few boxes of 7.62x39.

[BornAgainBiker]

Anyone have an idea of how much I could realistically sell my Russian SKS for?

Reasonable condition, mag cut down to 5 shots and bayonet lug removed to comply with A cat licence, also have a synthetic hole-through stock for it and a few boxes of 7.62x39.

Reality would be put it on T/Me and have a realistic reserve and see if it sells, at the end of the day if anyone is looking for one and they bid, or you get multi bids the top bid would be what it is worth in the open market. eg it is only worth what someone is willing to pay. sorry to be so cruel. But if your not happy with the bids then of course you dont have to sell.:2guns:

[jasonu]

Anyone have an idea of how much I could realistically sell my Russian SKS for?

Reasonable condition, mag cut down to 5 shots and bayonet lug removed to comply with A cat licence, also have a synthetic hole-through stock for it and a few boxes of 7.62x39.

The chinese one in my earlier post is for sale. He wants $350US for it and 200 rounds.

[Mr Merde]

Just got back from an interview for a job

In Morrinsville.

Only 93km each way. 1 Hour 10 min on the GN250 will be a lot less on the Triumph once it is repaired.

They told me that i interviewed very well and they are passing me through to the next round.

Its a meat packing firm. They asked me if seeing animals killed and processed would be OK with me. I replied that I go hunting. They were pleased at that. Seems there is a large number of them down that way that also hunt and shoot.

Talking about shooting. There is some lovely land down there that would make brilliant ranges. Long distances with possible areas for the butts that are on the side of nice hills.

Mmmm good place to move to and buy a few hundred acres or find a friendly farmer.

Chris

[The Pastor]

Just got back from an interview for a job

In Morrinsville.

Only 93km each way. 1 Hour 10 min on the GN250 will be a lot less on the Triumph once it is repaired.

They told me that i interviewed very well and they are passing me through to the next round.

Its a meat packing firm. They asked me if seeing animals killed and processed would be OK with me. I replied that I go hunting. They were pleased at that. Seems there is a large number of them down that way that also hunt and shoot.

Talking about shooting. There is some lovely land down there that would make brilliant ranges. Long distances with possible areas for the butts that are on the side of nice hills.

Mmmm good place to move to and buy a few hundred acres or find a friendly farmer.

Chris

93km. shit me that would get old real quick :S

good luck for the next round tho, its time some good luck headed your way :)

[Indiana_Jones]

93km. shit me that would get old real quick :S

good luck for the next round tho, its time some good luck headed your way :)

+1.

Girls are hot down that way too :sunny:

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

+1.

Girls are hot down that way too :sunny:

-Indy

So how do you know Indy?

Was the last one you met down there inflatable or did she go baaaaa?

[Wolf]

Chris: If you get a job around Morrinsville, you'd be most welcome to pop in here for a cuppa any time.

Best of luck with the job. And here's hoping a suitable shooting range can be found soon.

[Indiana_Jones]

So how do you know Indy?

Was the last one you met down there inflatable or did she go baaaaa?

Both.

<img src="http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_krgndiP4fp1qz4u5io1_400.jpg">

-Indy

[Wolf]

Would give you rep points for honesty, Indy, but I've not "spread the lurve" enough.

From the look on that sheep's face, I think you've been spreading it a bit too much.

[carver]

My mate has bad pitting in a nagant barrel, got dry rust out of it!

Is this bad?

[The Pastor]

<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kMyPD1VKk60" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

For all you haters, dont be a hater.

[The Pastor]

My mate has bad pitting in a nagant barrel, got dry rust out of it!

Is this bad?

na probably will improve accuracy....

[Indiana_Jones]

My mate has bad pitting in a nagant barrel, got dry rust out of it!

Is this bad?

Cheapest solution is to buy another MN

-Indy

[jono035]

Cheapest solution is to buy another MN

-Indy

Cheaper still to just live with it ;)

It'll copper foul nicely and probably still shoot as straight as a MN normally does.

[Indiana_Jones]

Cheaper still to just live with it ;)

It'll copper foul nicely and probably still shoot as straight as a MN normally does.

lol good call

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

Jono,

How is that little pistol going.

Pleased with it.

Quiet enough?

Chris

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src="http://razzamatazz.co.uk/uploads/images_products_large/754.jpg">

-Indy

[The Pastor]

indy, thats a small gun u have

[Indiana_Jones]

indy, thats a small gun u have

Got small bullets too ;)

-Indy

[scumdog]

<img src="http://razzamatazz.co.uk/uploads/images_products_large/754.jpg">

-Indy

Got one like that hanging from the mirror of my hot-rod.

The gun, you fools - the gun!

Sheesh. how'ld ya expect me ta hang a shiela that size from the mirror???:blink:

[jono035]

Jono,

How is that little pistol going.

Pleased with it.

Quiet enough?

Chris

Pretty nicely. It doesn't like the CCI subsonics that I've got, but it's plenty quiet with CCI Standard. On a related note, I now need to buy another couple of bricks of standard :P

Jeez it's quiet. Kinda funny trying to shoot over the suppressor, though. Have been thinking about trying to make an off-centre one by adapting the plans I had for the .303. I've got all the materials required for that, still.

All moved into the new place after this weekend and we're still pretty happy with it so far. Shall have to have drinks at some point.

[Swoop]

Kinda funny trying to shoot over the suppressor, though.
Why's that? Iron sights an issue when it is fitted?

[jono035]

Why's that? Iron sights an issue when it is fitted?

The suppressor is pretty big, the edge of the suppressor is 5mm higher than the front post. Makes it pretty 50/50 for use as a target pistol :) Still shoots better than I do...

[Swoop]

The suppressor is pretty big, the edge of the suppressor is 5mm higher than the front post. Makes it pretty 50/50 for use as a target pistol
An old trick was screwing the can on snugly and then either:
Put a piece of white insulation tape along the top and use a sharp knife + ruler to cut it down so that you have a 3-5mm wide white line along the top, or
mask off and paint a white line along the top.

It is usually sufficient for the range that subs will work out to ~25m(?).

[jono035]

An old trick was screwing the can on snugly and then either:
Put a piece of white insulation tape along the top and use a sharp knife + ruler to cut it down so that you have a 3-5mm wide white line along the top, or
mask off and paint a white line along the top.

It is usually sufficient for the range that subs will work out to ~25m(?).

Yeah, the combo of a fixed rear sight and the short sight length makes that a pretty random proposition. It's pretty much what I was doing anyway, but with the point of aim being the top centre of a 1m square target.

[Mr Merde]

Never designed for extreme accuracy.

This is a working pistol.

Bring it in close and pull the trigger. Suppressor and clothing combined makes it very quiet.

Mak a white line on the back of the suppressor. That should do for up to 20 meters. You are only trying to quietly hit a target about melon sized.

points really well. Instinctive shooting should be ok or use the holes on the top and mount a laser.

Chris

[Wolf]

If we're talking about that old Russian ,22 you used to have, Chris, it does point extremely well, I recall. Quite a nice wee thing.

[Mr Merde]

If we're talking about that old Russian ,22 you used to have, Chris, it does point extremely well, I recall. Quite a nice wee thing.

that is exactly the pistol we are talking about.

had a thought last night Jono.

Try those Aquila subsonic rounds in the pistol.

from memory they have a heavy bullet. short case. could make it even quieter

[Drunken Monkey]

"No Yemenis were harmed in the making of this thread"...

[The Pastor]

kinda thinking about getting a bow......

not that i have any money

[jono035]

kinda thinking about getting a bow......

not that i have any money

For hunting?

If it's for targets then I've got a recurve bow that you could borrow, although the limbs and arrows are probably a bit long. Bracer/quiver/guards etc. too.

[Wolf]

What's the barrel length on that Vostok? I was reading on a US firearms forum that below a certain barrel length (about 5", IIRC), standard .22lr remains subsonic as it doesn't have enough barrel length to accelerate up to the speed of sound.

Of course, subsonic rounds would still be quieter as they'd have less of a bang to begin with.

[jono035]

What's the barrel length on that Vostok? I was reading on a US firearms forum that below a certain barrel length (about 5", IIRC), standard .22lr remains subsonic as it doesn't have enough barrel length to accelerate up to the speed of sound.

Of course, subsonic rounds would still be quieter as they'd have less of a bang to begin with.

Not sure what the barrel length is, but I'd guess 4-5".

[The Pastor]

For hunting?

If it's for targets then I've got a recurve bow that you could borrow, although the limbs and arrows are probably a bit long. Bracer/quiver/guards etc. too.

can you not hunt with recurve?

[jono035]

can you not hunt with recurve?

Well, I don't think people do, really. They generally only have front sights, so rely really heavily on body position for accuracy, and for this reason are generally less accurate.

They have lighter limbs so can't get as much speed/energy into the arrows and are therefore have a much more curved trajectory.

They don't have the cams so the holding force while aiming is a lot higher which makes it less accurate again.

Much longer (mine is a bit over 5 foot when assembled, I think) so less convenient.

Also, the arrows I've got are target heads, where they tend to use broadheads for hunting, especially with smaller game.

On the other side, they're cheaper, easier to get started with, more robust and most target guys say you should get as good as possible with a recurve first because you're less likely to develop bad habits that the 2-point sight of the compound bow will mask.

No real personal experience beyond that quick play with that guys compound hunting bow when we went hunting.

With a recurve bow, the accuracy is ALL in technique and body position so maybe find an archery club nearby, there are HEAPS of them. I went to the club that uses the area on top of Mount Albert (Mount Green Archery Club) and they were pretty helpful. First day free, 6 weeks of lessons for a couple hundred dollars (with gear rental included in that) and then was pretty cheap to join.

[The Pastor]

Well, I don't think people do, really. They generally only have front sights, so rely really heavily on body position for accuracy, and for this reason are generally less accurate.

They have lighter limbs so can't get as much speed/energy into the arrows and are therefore have a much more curved trajectory.

They don't have the cams so the holding force while aiming is a lot higher which makes it less accurate again.

Much longer (mine is a bit over 5 foot when assembled, I think) so less convenient.

Also, the arrows I've got are target heads, where they tend to use broadheads for hunting, especially with smaller game.

On the other side, they're cheaper, easier to get started with, more robust and most target guys say you should get as good as possible with a recurve first because you're less likely to develop bad habits that the 2-point sight of the compound bow will mask.

No real personal experience beyond that quick play with that guys compound hunting bow when we went hunting.

With a recurve bow, the accuracy is ALL in technique and body position so maybe find an archery club nearby, there are HEAPS of them. I went to the club that uses the area on top of Mount Albert (Mount Green Archery Club) and they were pretty helpful. First day free, 6 weeks of lessons for a couple hundred dollars (with gear rental included in that) and then was pretty cheap to join.


The thing I like best about archery, is the ability to practice alot more easier than shooting.

I've only ever shot a re-curve, but i couldn't even pull back a compound.... :P

[Indiana_Jones]

Longbow!

<img src="http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/4/77/25774/v0_master.jpg">

.....or crossbow? :D

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

kinda thinking about getting a bow......

not that i have any money

A pretty PINK one to contrast with his flowing locks

[The Pastor]

A pretty PINK one to contrast with his flowing locks

quit dreaming chris, you'll never have me!

But i'll upload a pic of myself for your happy times.

http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk387/kiwionthenet/Inbred2.jpg

[Indiana_Jones]

You two are totally gay for each other :sunny:

-Indy

[BornAgainBiker]

quit dreaming chris, you'll never have me!

But i'll upload a pic of myself for your happy times.

http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk387/kiwionthenet/Inbred2.jpg

Is that you Aunty??

[The Pastor]

Is that you Aunty??

nope, buts thats who i stole it off lol

[BornAgainBiker]

nope, buts thats who i stole it off lol

:gob::laugh::laugh: I was thinking the only bike Aunty would ride would be a Hog :laugh:

[Mr Merde]

Alex,

Seen all the fuss in the papers today and yesterday.

Just wondering if you were one of these "drunken" sailors?

Just imagine that, sailors like to have a drink !!!

World shattering news.

Next we are going to be told that old sailors prefer the apples from the bottom of the barrel.


:gob:

Chris

[The Pastor]

Alex,

Seen all the fuss in the papers today and yesterday.

Just wondering if you were one of these "drunken" sailors?

Just imagine that, sailors like to have a drink !!!

World shattering news.

Next we are going to be told that old sailors prefer the apples from the bottom of the barrel.


:gob:

Chris


Drunk sailors? what will happen next? Fat people from eating too much takeaways? motorcyclists getting speeding ticketS?

This world has gone down the drain!

[scumdog]

Drunk sailors? what will happen next? Fat people from eating too much takeaways? motorcyclists getting speeding ticketS?

This world has gone down the drain!

Next thing it will be cops getting speeding tickets...:shutup::whistle:

[Mr Merde]

Next thing it will be cops getting speeding tickets...:shutup::whistle:

Yes the world has inverted. What was black is now white. What was accepted is now admonished. What was a matter of pride is now a matter of shame.

I should give my name to the world.

We now live of Merde not Earth.

Chris

[Wolf]

Horrifically off topic - being a motorcycling site, and the firearms thread to boot, but is anyone up in the Auckland area able to check out and test drive a car located in Manukau on my behalf sometime tomorrow?

I'm trying to find a suitable set of wheels for transporting my pack around but I can't get up to Aucks to check it out.

PM me if able to help out.

Thanks.

[Finn]

Hello again freaks,

So now that my 3 year ban is over, I thought I'd update you on a little collection I've been building over the past year and then talk about a little dilemma I have.

So far:

Beretta Xtrema II semi shotty
Cheap crap Escort pump action tactical shotty just for kicks
Ruger 10/22 with fully supressed barrel - highest kill count so far
Sako Finnlight 7m08 with Kahles scope - great scope and fantastic hunting rifle)
Remmington 700 VTR in .223 - Good target practice on wabbits over 100 mtrs
Armalite Ar15 16" collabsable stock & Trijicon sight with RMR and a pile of other goodies - Best fun gun
CZ SP01 Shadow 9mm - Great for target - reload my own ammo.
Sig P220 45 ACP - great for pig hunting ;-)

Now here's my dilemma. Where the hell do I shoot rifles in Auckland without having to endure all the wierdo's that go to rifle ranges? With all this land around us, surely there must be some legitimate & safe places. Any ideas?

[Indiana_Jones]

That patch of grass behind the pig station might be good....

-Indy

[Finn]

That patch of grass behind the pig station might be good....

-Indy

Good for losing my license, guns and getting a reckless use of a firearms charge maybe.

[The Pastor]

Good for losing my license, guns and getting a reckless use of a firearms charge maybe.

Mate its one of the hardest things, finding land to shoot on, if u find any, please let me know :)

[Wolf]

WB Finn

Nice collection.

[Finn]

WB Finn

Nice collection.

Thanks Wolf.

Like most firearms owners, I'm secretly hoping for a zombie attack. I'm just like to be prepared.

[jono035]

Thanks Wolf.

Like most firearms owners, I'm secretly hoping for a zombie attack. I'm just like to be prepared.

Don't even need to be hoping for zombies, take a look at what's happening in London and tell me you wouldn't feel safer with a pump action 12 gauge full of double-ought under the bed.

[Finn]

Don't even need to be hoping for zombies, take a look at what's happening in London and tell me you wouldn't feel safer with a pump action 12 gauge full of double-ought under the bed.

I sleep with a pillow under my gun.

[Drunken Monkey]

I sleep with a pillow under my gun.

I lulzed....

[scumdog]

I sleep with a pillow under my gun.

You have pillow???

Pah, I have a gun under my gun...





And welcome back to the loony bin - and I need more cee-garrs.

[Wolf]

I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
:2thumbsup I think it's very important that guns be well looked after and comfortably housed.

[jono035]

:2thumbsup I think it's very important that guns be well looked after and comfortably housed.

Speaking of which, there's a leak in my shed roof right over the top of where I mounted the rifle rack... Goddamnit.

[The Pastor]

A suburban Phoenix man is recovering after police say he accidentally shot himself in the penis while putting his girlfriend's gun in the waistband of his pants.

Chandler police say 27-year-old Joshua Seto and his fiancee, Cara Christopher, were walking toward a grocery store when the shooting happened last week. The gun fired, striking Seto's penis and continuing through his left thigh.

The Arizona Republic reports a 911 operator told Christopher to apply direct pressure to the wound with a dry towel or T-shirt.

Chandler Police Detective Seth Tyler was unsure of the type of gun, or whether it had a safety that was off. He also says it's unclear if Seto has been released from the hospital or suffered any permanent damage

In the wake of the shooting, Tyler warned residents to use holsters, not waistbands, if they're going to carry a handgun.

[Wolf]

In the wake of the shooting, Tyler warned residents to use holsters, not waistbands, if they're going to carry a handgun.
Yep.

Not the first time that's happened - getting shot through penis and thigh has happened at least twice before under similar circumstances.

Also, always carry in a safe state.

[The Pastor]

Yep.

Not the first time that's happened - getting shot through penis and thigh has happened at least twice before under similar circumstances.

Also, always carry in a safe state.

yea dunno why people would carry a handgun with one in the chamber? would it really matter if you have to spend that extra second chambering a round :S

[Finn]

yea dunno why people would carry a handgun with one in the chamber? would it really matter if you have to spend that extra second chambering a round :S

Carrying a handgun with one in the chamber is safe, as long as it's de-cocked (and I don't mean de-cocked like the story above) A double action pistol in this scenario is a good choice.

[jono035]

Carrying a handgun with one in the chamber is completely safe, as long as it's de-cocked (and I don't mean de-cocked like the story above) A double action pistol in this scenario is a good choice.

Yeah, although that's only possible with a pistol that has a decocking lever or (with a little care) an exposed hammer. Can't do it on a Glock.

Also, you'd probably want to check that it uses the inertia of the firing pin to fire, not direct action from the hammer, otherwise you could fire it by a smart rap on the back of the exposed hammer. I don't know of any semi-autos that are like this, but it's the old S/A revolver problem.

[Wolf]

A lot of modern semiauto pistols not only use the inertia of the firing pin, they have a firing pin block or the firing pin rotated off track when the firearm is decocked or the safety is applied and is only released (or rotated back) if the trigger is correctly pulled (in DA mode) or the hammer is cocked (and even then, some don't rotate the firing pin or release the block until the trigger is pulled, just in case the hammer slips). From what I've read, Glocks are supposed to have internal safeties to ensure they only fire if the trigger is pulled, not if bumped.

[jono035]

A lot of modern semiauto pistols not only use the inertia of the firing pin, they have a firing pin block or the firing pin rotated off track when the firearm is decocked or the safety is applied and is only released (or rotated back) if the trigger is correctly pulled (in DA mode) or the hammer is cocked (and even then, some don't rotate the firing pin or release the block until the trigger is pulled, just in case the hammer slips). From what I've read, Glocks are supposed to have internal safeties to ensure they only fire if the trigger is pulled, not if bumped.

Sure, but still being a S/A pistol, if you're not disciplined with keeping your finger out of the trigger guard while drawing, you end up shooting yourself in the leg... At least with a D/A there is a bit of extra resistance. Clothing fouling on the trigger is also possible, depending on the holster and how you're carrying it, I guess...

[Wolf]

That's why I like the idea of the decocking DA/SA pistols like the Walther P99, Ruger P95DC, SIG226 etc, you've got the ability to quickly decock the pistol and the greater trigger resistance to prevent accidental shots.

That and the fact that the Glock just does not point well for me - the angle of the grip is "wrong".

[jono035]

That's why I like the idea of the decocking DA/SA pistols like the Walther P99, Ruger P95DC, SIG226 etc, you've got the ability to quickly decock the pistol and the greater trigger resistance to prevent accidental shots.

That and the fact that the Glock just does not point well for me - the angle of the grip is "wrong".

Yep, and, of course, the Beretta 92. The ability to use the safety in hammer up and hammer down modes is nice, too.

[Wolf]

Yep, and, of course, the Beretta 92. The ability to use the safety in hammer up and hammer down modes is nice, too.
I like the Brazilian version - Taurus PT99 - very nice to shoot.

[jono035]

I like the Brazilian version - Taurus PT99 - very nice to shoot.

Yep, which is exactly what I own :) The target sights on the Taurus are kinda annoying but the frame mounted safety/decocking is far better than the Beretta.

[Wolf]

Yep, which is exactly what I own :) The target sights on the Taurus are kinda annoying but the frame mounted safety/decocking is far better than the Beretta.
Taurus made a number of improvements on the M92 design. That's gotta burn - come up with a really good design, allow some other firm to manufacture under licence and they turn around and improve your design.

[sAsLEX]

yea dunno why people would carry a handgun with one in the chamber? would it really matter if you have to spend that extra second chambering a round :S

Why not carry around a stick.

Most handgun engagements, effective ones, are done at close range, and that extra second counts when someone is running at you or drawing his own weapon.


Carrying a handgun with one in the chamber is safe, as long as it's de-cocked (and I don't mean de-cocked like the story above) A double action pistol in this scenario is a good choice.

Is your 220 like this? Only have experience in the 226 (oh and getting really really drunk overseas....)

[Wolf]

Why not carry around a stick.

Most handgun engagements, effective ones, are done at close range, and that extra second counts when someone is running at you or drawing his own weapon.
Brings us back to the Tueller Drill - draw and land two rounds centre of mass in under two-and-a-half seconds.

2.5 seconds being the time the average guy with a knife can go from "being 7 metres away" to "embedding it in your soft bits".

Not a lot of time for mucking about.

[Mr Merde]

yea dunno why people would carry a handgun with one in the chamber? would it really matter if you have to spend that extra second chambering a round :S

If you are in a situation where you need to carry a firearm then you can reasonably expect to have to use such.

When you draw the firearm you dont want to have to rack the slide to chamber the first round. It could mean you die.

When I was obliged to carry my firearms of choice were the following

Colt 1911 .45 ACP. Carrried in an inside the waistband holster. Cocked and locked.

.45 because when i fired that pistol I wanted whoever I shot at to go down fast and hard.

My other carry gun was a Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 special. 5 shots in the cylinder ( yes a revolver). The empty gun weighed in at 19 ounces. I caried this in a holster that sat in the small of my back. It had a 2 1/2 inch barrel and once again fired a bloody heavy round that was accurate and would put a person down.

I also carried on occasions a very small handgun. A Browning 1900 in .32 APC. This one sat in my jacket pocket. not a hard hitter but accurate to 10 yards. Singlr action with one always in the chamber.

I trained with both guns shooting bowling pin matches. With the Colt I could draw the pistol, knock 5 skittles off a 1 meter wide table in 7 seconds.

The revolver was just as fast.

When your life and the lives of your friends depend on the first shot you want to be fast and accurate and overwhelming.

[Mr Merde]

Another point about comabt shooting.

You train to make it as instinctive as possible.

When your training kicks in and also the adrenilin you really dont even think about what you are doing.

Only once i had to pull the .45 and I had fired before I even knew about it. Training for situations is very very important. I dont even remember actually pulling the trigger but i had fired 3 shots. 2 to the mass and 1 to the head as i was trained to do.

A friend of mine was a specialist in close protection. One day he had the call about a threat to his principle. He drew droppped to one knee and fired a double tapp, or so he thought. He was using a Browning 9mm and he emptied the magazine in the gun, loaded and fired another magazine. Thats 30 rounds fired by instinct. His principle was safe.

[jono035]

Another point about comabt shooting.

You train to make it as instinctive as possible.

When your training kicks in and also the adrenilin you really dont even think about what you are doing.

Only once i had to pull the .45 and I had fired before I even knew about it. Training for situations is very very important. I dont even remember actually pulling the trigger but i had fired 3 shots. 2 to the mass and 1 to the head as i was trained to do.

A friend of mine was a specialist in close protection. One day he had the call about a threat to his principle. He drew droppped to one knee and fired a double tapp, or so he thought. He was using a Browning 9mm and he emptied the magazine in the gun, loaded and fired another magazine. Thats 30 rounds fired by instinct. His principle was safe.

One of the comments I remember from a friend of mine who studied forensics was that you generally can't rely on personal accounts from situations like that because of that exact scenario. If the guy had been immediately questioned, he could have ended up swearing black and blue that he'd only fired a couple of rounds when he'd actually emptied a mag.

Same deal as the story I remember you telling about the guy who counted his rounds, loaded a new mag and then at the end of it had had the safety on the entire time without noticing.

[Mr Merde]

...

Same deal as the story I remember you telling about the guy who counted his rounds, loaded a new mag and then at the end of it had had the safety on the entire time without noticing.

I'd forgotten about hat one.

Tim S. Emigrated from South Wales to South Africa. Joined the SA army and had a few trips into Mozambique. That was the first time he had been in a firefight. Not an uncommon scenario. Training kicks in and you are a slave to it.

Always have a laugh at the old time westerns when the goodie is forced into a showdown. the goodie always outdraws one of the baddies and holds his fire thereby showing how fast he is but doesnt shoot anyone.

In real life the action is so fast that he wouldnt be able to stop himself from firing. If the choice is shooting or dying I know what everyone will do.

There are no vegeterians when you are starving.

Chris

[Wolf]

Especially given that the baddie in that scenario may well have been slower to the draw but he's most definitely going to be pulling the trigger - he's not going to be thinking, "hey, he beat me to the draw", he's merely going to be aware that he's still alive and in a fight for his life.

[Finn]

Only once i had to pull the .45 and I had fired before I even knew about it. Training for situations is very very important. I dont even remember actually pulling the trigger but i had fired 3 shots. 2 to the mass and 1 to the head as i was trained to do.

Those fuckin parking wardens deserve everything they get. Fuckers

[Finn]

Is your 220 like this? Only have experience in the 226 (oh and getting really really drunk overseas....)

Yip, decocker, da, no safety. Only 7 rounds though so make them count which .45's usually do

[scumdog]

That's why I like the idea of the decocking DA/SA pistols like the Walther P99, Ruger P95DC, SIG226 etc, you've got the ability to quickly decock the pistol and the greater trigger resistance to prevent accidental shots.

That and the fact that the Glock just does not point well for me - the angle of the grip is "wrong".

I love the Glock - NO safety to have a stuff-up with and 17 rounds:woohoo:.

I always carry it 'hot' - as mentioned half seconds can count when it comes to the crunch

For quick and hurriedly aimed shots the grip angle etc does not seem to matter.

[Wolf]

I'd take Finn's SIG 220 over the Glock - its sights would be aligned quicker for me than the Glock's would as it has the same point as the 1911, P99 etc.

A P99 would be my preference if I were in a situation where carrying a firearm to protect my life were required. A couple of rounds fewer than the Glock but no safety to worry about and a natural point for me, can be carried hot but decocked and ready to fire double-action (analogous to what Jeff Cooper called "Condition Two"). Internal striker is locked until the trigger is pulled far enough back to fire it.

I use P99RAM pistols for paintball and I love 'em. I scarcely notice the harder pull for the first, DA, shot and the subsequent shots are all SA.

SD: if it's not an Official Secret or anything, what type of ammo do you lads use in your Glocks?

[Mr Merde]

Wolf,

Glad you like the feel of the 1911. Always loved how they just fit my hand. Fancied getting a Para ordnance for a while now. Just cant justify the expense. 15 rounds of .45 negates the advantage of the super nines in my humble opinion.

Dont know about SD's ammo choice but military are covered by the geneva Convention and can only use ball ammo. Police arent covered by this convention so they can pretty much use any ammo they choose. if it was me I would opt for a soft point of some sort.

When I shot the skittle matches i used a very funny round. The bullet tip was very much shaped like a keyhole saw. As it spun and connected witrh the pin it dug in. As the aim was to knock the pin off the table any glancing hits were wasted. This bullet didint glance.

Tried the 10mm and other wonder rounds in my time but always came back to the .45. The US Army came up against this problem back in 1905 in the phillipine War. They had changed their standard sidearm to a .38 and found the the Moro's wouldnt go down as they were hyped on dope. They went back to the .45 and a few years later settled on the .45. They would still be there but for the cost of ammo.

We are still re learning about the ammo of the old days. Recently I watched a video of a man in the US firing the 32-20 in a lever rifle. This round is considered punny by todays standard and Wind (his name) is hitting metal plates at 800 and 1000 yards. Something modern pundits say is impossible with any regularity.

Look it up on youtube. 32-40 longe range shooting. Wind is one hell of a nice guy and has been corresponding with me regularly.

Chris

[Wolf]

Expanding bullets were banned by the Hague Convention (1899) - that chunk of legislation that purports to be in the interests of being humane. The one that bans expanding projectiles and stipulates the use of rounds that are more likely to wound than kill, just to inconvenience the enemy troops.

Apparently a man writhing in agony on a muddy battlefield with a hole right through him (or probably more than one, depending on how many shots it took to stop his attack) is "humane" enough for the Hague Convention and being killed outright by an expanding projectile is "inhumane".

According to a Czar and a bunch of politicians who would never risk being the one writhing on the battlefield.

Frankly, I'm glad that hunters, police, security personnel and private citizens are not covered by that barbaric legislation.

I've heard that Jacketed Hollow Points are deemed by many to be the most reliable round for personal defence.

[scumdog]

I've heard that Jacketed Hollow Points are deemed by many to be the most reliable round for personal defence.

We use 'Hydroshoks'

Less likely to go through the target - most likely to expend all their energy on it.

[terbang]

Expanding bullets were banned by the Hague Convention (1899) - that chunk of legislation that purports to be in the interests of being humane. The one that bans expanding projectiles and stipulates the use of rounds that are more likely to wound than kill, just to inconvenience the enemy troops.

Apparently a man writhing in agony on a muddy battlefield with a hole right through him (or probably more than one, depending on how many shots it took to stop his attack) is "humane" enough for the Hague Convention and being killed outright by an expanding projectile is "inhumane".

According to a Czar and a bunch of politicians who would never risk being the one writhing on the battlefield.

Frankly, I'm glad that hunters, police, security personnel and private citizens are not covered by that barbaric legislation.

I've heard that Jacketed Hollow Points are deemed by many to be the most reliable round for personal defence.

Well yes, but the guy (alive but who cannot fight anymore) with the hole right through him from a ball round needs to be taken off the field, taken to a hospital, rehabilitated E.T.C. This has the spin off that it certainly takes a fair bit of your enemies human and financial resource. Yes barbaric indeed.

[Wolf]

Well yes, but the guy (alive but who cannot fight anymore) with the hole right through him from a ball round needs to be taken off the field, taken to a hospital, rehabilitated E.T.C. This has the spin off that it certainly takes a fair bit of your enemies human and financial resource. Yes barbaric indeed.
My very point - the Hague Convention mandates the use of inhumane projectiles to inconvenience the enemy by causing them to expend the resources to remove the wounded soldiers from the field.

It's a bit silly as the enemy also has to use the same barbaric projectiles which has the same effect on your resources.

IOW, being inhumane and not even getting the advantage that it offers - "needless suffering" springs to mind.

Compare that with certain legislations that actually outlaw using FMJ ammunition for hunting as it is needlessly inhumane when used against animals.

So, wild animals are entitled to as swift and humane a death as is possible but the Hague Convention denies the same to human soldiers.

SD: Hydra-Shok bullets are apparently very good by many counts. They're a modified JHP with a centre post to affect their expansion.

[jono035]

My understanding was that a man wounded by a fragmenting (which all expanding bullets have a tendency to do) round was more likely to die later from secondary complications such as infection whereas the non-expanding rounds were very much more likely to kill or wound with high chance of survivability with less area in between.

Would be interesting to see any of the data used to make the decision, for sure.

Edit: Comparing hunting of animals to hunting of people is a little odd. It's much better to have a wounded animal die quickly rather than slowly if it gets away from the hunter with the expectation that it is likely to die either way. With a human and medical treatment, the lines are a lot more blurred.

[Wolf]

Edit: Comparing hunting of animals to hunting of people is a little odd. It's much better to have a wounded animal die quickly rather than slowly if it gets away from the hunter with the expectation that it is likely to die either way. With a human and medical treatment, the lines are a lot more blurred.
Here was me thinking that the object of war was to kill the enemy. At least that was generally the idea back when we civilised peoples cut our enemies' heads off and put them on our fences (and the savages threw people to lions to amuse themselves...)

[Swoop]

When I shot the skittle matches i used a very funny round. The bullet tip was very much shaped like a keyhole saw.

They went back to the .45 and a few years later settled on the .45. They would still be there but for the cost of ammo.
Going on the rough timespan alluded to...
Were they "Black Talon" rounds?

.45 is still common. The regular troops have 9mm but SF are back on ACP.

Recently I spoke to a chap who had need of that calibre. He said the recipient travelled rearwards by 2 feet upon addition of that injection.
A most satisfactory outcome was achieved.

Well yes, but the guy (alive but who cannot fight anymore) with the hole right through him from a ball round needs to be taken off the field, taken to a hospital, rehabilitated E.T.C. This has the spin off that it certainly takes a fair bit of your enemies human and financial resource.
Many years ago I was told a story that postulated that the current 5.56NATO round was invented because of the "Soviet threat" of invasion via Alaska.
The current round was the 7.62mm. A much smaller round, when used in the arctic, would require a victim to be "de-clothed" to examine/treat the wound. The exposure to freezing conditions would do the major part of the damage.
True or not...?

[jono035]

Here was me thinking that the object of war was to kill the enemy. At least that was generally the idea back when we civilised peoples cut our enemies' heads off and put them on our fences (and the savages threw people to lions to amuse themselves...)

Sure, that's the point, but the parties involved coming together and making a decision to agree to certain codes of conduct of which the point was, I'd always thought, to be more humane to the people actually doing the fighting (i.e. no nerve gas or other weapons likely to cause blanket long term adverse affects) was an imminently civilized thing to do and showed uncommon empathy by those deciding to go to war for those who would actually be on the front lines.

Then again, it doesn't make black and white sense therefore it can't possibly be right.

[Mr Merde]

Swoop had to look up that bullet on the interweb.

Yes that is what they looked like

friend of mine in North Wales swaged specials for us The tip was very much like a keyhole saw.

Hard lead but very similar.

They were brilliant. hit the side of a skittle and it went flying. Hit it with a 9mm and it fell over.


Chris

[Swoop]

Yes that is what they looked like

friend of mine in North Wales swaged specials for us The tip was very much like a keyhole saw.

Hard lead but very similar.

They were brilliant. hit the side of a skittle and it went flying. Hit it with a 9mm and it fell over.
They were removed from the market due to "racist" overtones...:rolleyes:

Exceptionally good on pins though & I believe they were re-released under the name "pingrabber".

[sAsLEX]

Had an interesting chat with a man up North who twice mentioned that he would be back with his shotgun.....I take it that is not approved of Scum?

We had been directed to a patch of land to ride on and this bloke approached me when I was on the beach some time later and started abusing me, I was polite the whole time, but he still threatened me a number of times.

Silly me forgot to get his number plate as I was trying to fix a misbehaving bike!

[Indiana_Jones]

Had an interesting chat with a man up North who twice mentioned that he would be back with his shotgun.....I take it that is not approved of Scum?

We had been directed to a patch of land to ride on and this bloke approached me when I was on the beach some time later and started abusing me, I was polite the whole time, but he still threatened me a number of times.

Silly me forgot to get his number plate as I was trying to fix a misbehaving bike!

Well seeing you're a biker, which means you're worth $250, so na not worth the investigation cost aye!

-Indy

[munster]

Anyone need spotlight batteries?

I've got a few spare 12 volt 7 amp hour batteries, ex UPS, get changed every 2 years under contract, no problems. Free, pick up in Pukekohe or can deliver locally within reason.

Send me a message.

cheers

[BornAgainBiker]

:shit: wrong post sorry

[munster]

Anyone need spotlight batteries?

I've got a few spare 12 volt 7 amp hour batteries, ex UPS, get changed every 2 years under contract, no problems. Free, pick up in Pukekohe or can deliver locally within reason

Don't be shy, I've got about 40 of them spare. If you don't, then I'm going to be tempted to attempt to make one of these. And that will not do my marriage any good. And then I'll get divorced. And it'll be all yous fellas fault for not picking up free batteries.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/197215/images/electriccruiser.jpg

[BornAgainBiker]

Don't be shy, I've got about 40 of them spare. If you don't, then I'm going to be tempted to attempt to make one of these. And that will not do my marriage any good. And then I'll get divorced. And it'll be all yous fellas fault for not picking up free batteries.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/197215/images/electriccruiser.jpg

FlukeShot recons you should build that dream bike

[munster]

FlukeShot recons you should build that dream bike

Dunno about dream bike, but certainly an interesting 'project' bike.

[The Pastor]

Dunno about dream bike, but certainly an interesting 'project' bike.

do it ya pussy

[munster]

do it ya pussy

Got a spare bike sans motor lying around. That'll do for a start.

[Mr Merde]

I would be interested in a couple of those batteries.

I live in Tuakau

PM me contact details

Merde.

[Smokin]

Not sure if any of you guys own a 17HMR but don't buy a .22 or .22 magnum before you check one out.
Have a look at this guys CZ in action, mind you he's a good shot.

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7pg5ZqI7X8A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/US5Wa2-rnAg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Drunken Monkey]

I remember it was all the rage a few years ago. I'm less skeptical about the ballistics of the round, but there are many reported problems with the .17HMR auto loaders - to the point I believe 2 out of the 3 manufacturers who sold a .17HMR auto loader have dropped the product. I'll see if I can find the forum again.
Chuck Hawks doesn't seem to have talked about in depth.

Anyone got personal experience with it?

Personally I found the .22 Magnum more versatile, but feed reliability problems (again with auto loaders, probably not a problem in other formats), cost and a wish to be consuming a smaller range of calibre types across more firearms led me to drop it.

Now I run 2 x .22LR instead of 1 x .22LR and 1 x .22 Magnum. 2 shotties, again 1 auto loader and one pump, 12 gauge. .243 is "in a replacement program" (*cough* Merde! *cough*) when this is complete, will have again, 1 x auto loader and 1 x bolt, both in 7.62x51/.308.

[Smokin]

I own 2 of them both, bolt action Savages, Fantastic round but not good in the wind.
The self loaders had a problem with the pointed tips catching as they were feeding into the chamber and flicking sideways, then discharging when the bolt closed on the sideways round and that caused the remaining rounds in the mag to discharge also. I witnessed this firsthand shooting beside my mate with his remington 597.
Not a pretty result, He was ok but the bolt was messed up and the magazine was nothing but a mangled piece of tin. Most of the problems seemed to come from the 597 which Remington recalled and rebarreled to .22mag. It scared most of the other manufacturers off from what I was told.

[GPS MAN]

Got a Savage 17 HMR in the states..it rocks...Have a 17 Mach II...CRAP...over here:violin:....Like my Ruger 10/22 much better....

[m99dws]

http://www.dawesinnz.com/misc/weapons.jpg

H&R 12G Shotgun
1943 Lee Enfield .303
Anschutz .22 (Sold)
Zombie Survival Guide
Sharp pointy knife

:-)

[m99dws]

PS - wish we had a Gun City store in Welly, that would surely rock!

[Winston001]

What's the go with the NZ Army (or is it called Defence Force now?) not having decent weapons?

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/soldiers-rifles-fail-hit-their-target-4371991

Anyone understand whats going on? I thought the Steyr was a good bullpup assault rifle, now its below par. Seems like they moved from the Minimi as the SAW to a 7.62 but no guns have been purchased.

What have they bought for sniper rifles?

[Swoop]

$1- Gun promo under fire...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10748687

I received the email yesterday and thought it was a good promotion. Nice to see the usual morons bleating about it.




A Father's Day promotion at an Auckland gun shop offering a "mystery firearm" for $1 to the first person to spot it on the racks has been labelled sick, sad and irresponsible.

But the man behind the bargain stands by his offer and says the dad who gets the gun will be "God blessed".

As part of its annual Father's Day sale Gun City in Mt Roskill is offering a special deal to one lucky punter on Saturday. If they spot the gun with the $1 price tag - it's theirs to buy, providing they have a current Firearms Licence.

But anti-gun lobbyists say the promotion may send the wrong message to the public.

Professor Kevin Clements, director of the National Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies at Otago University, said there were already "more than enough guns" in New Zealand.

"I think that it is a very sick and sad promotion for Father's Day," he said.

"New Zealand already has 230,000 licensed firearms owners and over a million weapons. The assumption that a father needs or wants a new gun for Father's Day sends all the wrong messages to children and partners.

He said advertising a gun for $1 would attract a wide variety of bargain hunters - and most would already own guns.

"This $1 gun will be surplus to their requirements. It is not a responsible promotion. It is an inducement for gun lovers and bargain hunters to come into a gun shop.

"It is dangerous because the advert suggests that purchasing a gun is not very different from a fairground lucky dip when, because of its potential lethality, it should be a very serious, deliberate decision subject to specific rules and regulations."

Green MP Keith Locke said the promotion was "disturbing".

"I think it's completely the wrong attitude towards guns and the sale of guns," he said.

"Surely the whole context of the sale of guns should be that guns are sold only for particular legitimate purposes. Hunters, for example, buy a certain type of gun for hunting."

But Gun City owner David Tipple stood by the sale and said it was a "genuine gift" from one gun lover to another.

"What does it matter if a guy pays a dollar or $10,000 for the gun? What difference does it make?" he said.

"Picture this - some kid who can't afford to buy his father a gun. But say he's 18 or 20 and has his Firearms Licence, he can give that gift to his father.

"This is a genuine gift from us, and God bless the guy who gets it."

Mr Tipple said the only problem with the promotion was a backlash from those who did not understand and feared guns.

"These people are dealing with that kind of ignorance and I feel really sorry for them. What else are they afraid of?

"The reality is we live in a country where firearms cause less harm than fly spray and they have nothing to fear.

"It's tragic that the vocal minority are normally speaking from ignorance. Just because the firearm is sold cheap doesn't mean it poses a threat to society.

"The person who owns it has been vetted and they're entitled to own a firearm, so what difference does it make if their economic circumstances wouldn't normally allow them to - but as a result of us subsidising it - they can."

Mr Tipple was reluctant to reveal any details about the gun, but said it was "a particularly good deal" and worth between $500 and $1500.

"It's a lot of money, it's a big reduction. But that's what we're prepared to do as a gift for Father's Day."

He said the person who found the gun must be the buyer - eliminating the possibly of unlicensed people flooding to the store to try to spot the bargain.

"The buyer has to find it, has to identify it ... once he's identified it and once he's proven that he has a firearms licence, he can buy it."

Mr Locke said the promotion was the wrong approach to gun sales.

"We're not trying to cultivate glorification of guns in our society in the younger generation ... it's the sort of thing you'd expect more in America than in New Zealand. It's not the sort of thing we want to see here."

Mr Clements said encouraging people to buy more guns was wrong.

"I think that the existence of 1.1 million guns is already far too many for a country of 4.4 million people."

He said promoting "gun cultures" was also dangerous.

"Gun cultures survive by promoting what is known as 'hyper masculinity'. Such hyper masculinity is somewhat out of sync with a masculinity that favours good parenting, family attachments, equality, sensitivity to women and so on.

"The messages that Gun City are sending are likely to heighten gender divisions and create something of a pall over what should be a day when fathers immerse themselves in family, friends and the joys of home."

A police spokesman said he did not believe the promotion breached the Arms Act.

"But obviously the seller must comply with the act in terms of the sale and the purchaser must hold the appropriate firearms licence."

[jono035]

Was just about to post that.

Pretty irritating. I don't see what difference it makes, really. I don't think their analysis of 'the gun will be surplus to requirements' is quite correct. Legitimate reason for owning a firearm does not include a '1 firearm per use' clause, nor would the addition of one enhance firearm security or public safety.

I can't think of a single firearm that Gun City would have that I wouldn't find a use for.

Free advertising for Gun City, possibly at the detriment to the NZ FAL holder community.

[Swoop]

Anyone understand whats going on? I thought the Steyr was a good bullpup assault rifle, now its below par.
What have they bought for sniper rifles?
The article says:
"Operations in Afghanistan have identified a need to be able to conduct precision engagements at ranges greater than can be achieved with the current in-service weapon," according to a department evaluation division study."
This is very old news. When the first deployments were made, there was fast realisation that 5.56 wasn't cutting the mustard in the provinces. OK for urban fighting but in open country where our chaps were posted, the 7.62 came back into popularity really quickly. Our war-reserve stocks were immediately raided...


The steyr was a mongrel when first issued to the Army and needed lots of remedial work. The polymers used in the plastic were unable to last in our UV conditions, out of tolerance, etc, etc. The Navy went through a similar crisis with their rifles but to a lesser degree of severity.

Luckily not as bad as the Brit SA-80 disaster though.

[Indiana_Jones]

Great ad for Gun city. Now the shop will be swamped. No doubt one of the current affairs shows will turn up to film it and then hound the shop owner and lucky person buying it with questions "Why do you feel the need for this gun, sir" etc :tugger:

-Indy

[Wolf]

That Lieth Kocke bloke's a moron. He seems blissfully unaware of the large number of women who shoot and the number of parents who take their kids shooting.

[The Pastor]

hopefully ima get the gun!

[Wolf]

I've just decreased the number of guns around here - sold the SKS. Part of the money's going to go towards some accessories for my .22 - light and mount for night-time and a decent carry case.

[The Pastor]

I think the $1 gun will be like a 2nd hand gun? Dunno, but its sooo mine :D

[jono035]

I think the $1 gun will be like a 2nd hand gun? Dunno, but its sooo mine :D

Nah, they'd get skinned. I'd put money on it being one of the Gun City shotties or a JW-15 perhaps.

That said, even a decent rifle would still be cheap compared to the publicity/hype and would make sure that people were hanging out for it next year, too.

[scumdog]

Professor Kevin Clements, director of the National Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies at Otago University, said there were already "more than enough guns" in New Zealand.

"I think that it is a very sick and sad promotion for Father's Day," he said.




Mr Locke said the promotion was the wrong approach to gun sales.


Mr Clements said encouraging people to buy more guns was wrong.

"Gun cultures survive by promoting what is known as 'hyper masculinity'. Such hyper masculinity is somewhat out of sync with a masculinity that favours good parenting, family attachments, equality, sensitivity to women and so on.

"The messages that Gun City are sending are likely to heighten gender divisions and create something of a pall over what should be a day when fathers immerse themselves in family, friends and the joys of home."

A police spokesman said he did not believe the promotion breached the Arms Act.


Who the eff gave Mr Clement the job as Cheif Grinch of an organaisation that I've never even heard of (and can't think of a use for)

Locke is just a publicity and vote seeking twat.

And I bet the media tried its best to get the 'police spokesman' so condemn or criticise the $1 gun idea.

Sheesh, spare me from the Pollyannas of the world - and the 'less fact but more hysteria' media types and their 'reporting'. :angry:

[The Pastor]

Nah, they'd get skinned. I'd put money on it being one of the Gun City shotties or a JW-15 perhaps.

That said, even a decent rifle would still be cheap compared to the publicity/hype and would make sure that people were hanging out for it next year, too.

If its either of them i'll sell them and use it to reduce my debt :P

[oldguy]

Arabs Shooting T-Rex .557 hope not a repost


<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vwHs4DtQU3I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[scumdog]

Any of youz rich bastard watchin' Channel 70 on Sky?

Making an integral silencer/suppressor for a AK47.

[Drunken Monkey]

Any of youz rich bastard watchin' Channel 70 on Sky?

Making an integral silencer/suppressor for a AK47.

Nope, but if it's the series I'm thinking about, I've been saving it up on MySky... (episode 1 was a suppressed shotgun and they fired off the civil war cannon?)

[Road kill]

I have a Browning A5,,which is a semi auto 12g about 30 years old.
I have had heaps of different shooters but had to chuck in the climbing up an down hills thing due the health issues about 4 years ago,so now just keep the A5 for back yard possums which living rural we do get a few of every year.
The A5 is also great for a range of things like walking up bunnys an Hares,close range goats with the right ammo,Birds of course,,,just making a hell of a load of noise an genraly exersizing my hyper male shit stuff,,,WTF,,,,LOL..

[Winston001]

Luckily not as bad as the Brit SA-80 disaster though.

Thanks for that, I hadn't realised the SA-80 posed problems. Interesting.

I heard Wayne Mapp explaining our military buying fiasco and he kept referring to "projects" which personnel didn't have enough time (years) to follow through.

Call me old fashioned but I'd have thought buying new barrels (or whatever) for the Steyr, 203s grenade launchers, Minimis etc would be a one month job. What on earth is a project?

[Mr Merde]

Thanks for that, I hadn't realised the SA-80 posed problems. Interesting.

I heard Wayne Mapp explaining our military buying fiasco and he kept referring to "projects" which personnel didn't have enough time (years) to follow through.

Call me old fashioned but I'd have thought buying new barrels (or whatever) for the Steyr, 203s grenade launchers, Minimis etc would be a one month job. What on earth is a project?

A couple of problems they had with the SA80

1) on full auto sustained fire the barrel wilted very drastically. Soldiers are not allowed to fire full auto with them.

2) The original plastic the stock was made of, reacted badly with the camo cream the soldiers were issued with and the stock started softening and melting.

A project is a method where by a hammer that costs $15 each at mitre 10 suddenly becomes $500 each when delivered to the military.

[Mr Merde]

Any of youz rich bastard watchin' Channel 70 on Sky?

Making an integral silencer/suppressor for a AK47.

Downloaded the whole series.

Now up to episode 5 of the second series.

they have gone ton 45 min an episode. Wait till you see the quad M16

and the semi auto 40mm grenade launcher for thepolice to fire tear gas.



DM give me a couple of weeks and i will be in touch. Selling the Suzuki and will have enough spare readies for a couple of guns. the .243 and I have just been offered a marlin lever Action in 38-55 all set up for 1000 yard shooting

This one by this man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO6ihrcukcc
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO6ihrcukcc)
His mane is Wind and he is a phenominal shot. He is ringing steel at 1000 yards standing with a 38-55. popular myth is that this cant be done. I have been talking to him via e-mail and he made the offer for the rifle today. I think I am going to say yes.

merde

[Drunken Monkey]

yeah, was just having a wind up. i know you're good it :)

[scumdog]

3 and I have just been offered a marlin lever Action in 38-55 all set up for 1000 yard shooting
merde

I use to do that kind of stuff with my good Mk111 303.

Fire the shot, crank the bolt open end catch the empty case, sit up - and then hear the sound of the bullet strike!

[Mr Merde]

yeah, was just having a wind up. i know you're good it :)

I know you were

[munster]

Here's what one ant-gun lobbyist has said about Gun City's Promotion

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/84070/$1-gun-campaign-under-fire

Anti-gun lobbyist Mike Meyrick says the advert sends the wrong message of owning firearms just for the sake of it. The former police officer believes it is irresponsible and should be pulled

and here's what the NZ Herald has previously reported about said anti-gun lobbyist

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10008083

A former Huntly senior sergeant, now a lawyer, knew looking at child pornography was illegal but he did it anyway, a court has heard. Police say more than 300 images of child pornography were found on 57-year-old Mike Meyrick's computer hard drive and floppy disks after his wife and daughter reported him to police.

Well, that's his credibility shot isn't it (pun intended).

[The Pastor]

So I'm in line with 30 people, :s

[Indiana_Jones]

Did you get it? lol

-Indy

[The Pastor]

Did you get it? lol

-Indy

nope, but it was just a 22 anyway.

this is what it was

http://www.guncity.co.nz/22-gun-city-2010-22-bunny-buster-xidp238831.html

[scumdog]

nope, but it was just a 22 anyway.

this is what it was

http://www.guncity.co.nz/22-gun-city-2010-22-bunny-buster-xidp238831.html

Cool little rifle - I'd have it:yes:

[Indiana_Jones]

Sweet little looking gun there. Someone will be very pleased :)

-Indy

[jono035]

Nice, a good 10/22 was probably the best option, really. Most likely to be an upgrade for someone and actually get used.

[Swoop]

I heard Wayne Mapp explaining our military buying fiasco and he kept referring to "projects" which personnel didn't have enough time (years) to follow through.

What on earth is a project?
A "project" is a way to keep 50 unemployable retards off of the dole, sat in an office devising ways to get the most useless piece of shit into service at the most unaffordable price.
A prime NZ example would be the HMNZS Charles Upham.:angry:

[sAsLEX]

A "project" is a way to keep 50 unemployable retards off of the dole, sat in an office devising ways to get the most useless piece of shit into service at the most unaffordable price.
A prime NZ example would be the HMNZS Charles Upham.:angry:

The Charles Upham had a solution in place for its sea keeping whilst empty.

Another large grey transport ship has had to have ballast added in the super structure since then.

[sAsLEX]

Thanks for that, I hadn't realised the SA-80 posed problems. Interesting.

I heard Wayne Mapp explaining our military buying fiasco and he kept referring to "projects" which personnel didn't have enough time (years) to follow through.

Call me old fashioned but I'd have thought buying new barrels (or whatever) for the Steyr, 203s grenade launchers, Minimis etc would be a one month job. What on earth is a project?

Politics and bureaucracy get in the way of nice simple solutions.

$44K for a sniper rifle? Seems a bit rich to even me.

[The Pastor]

Politics and bureaucracy get in the way of nice simple solutions.

$44K for a sniper rifle? Seems a bit rich to even me.

guncity have a shotgun for sale for $60,000

http://www.guncity.co.nz/20g-purdey-sidelock-ejector-single-trigger-xidp236009.html

[Mr Merde]

Politics and bureaucracy get in the way of nice simple solutions.

$44K for a sniper rifle? Seems a bit rich to even me.

The 44k probably includes the 30k kickbacks to those who make the decisions.

[Wolf]

The 44k probably includes the 30k kickbacks to those who make the decisions.
I am sooooooo in the wrong line of work!

[The Pastor]

I am sooooooo in the wrong line of work!

at least you can sleep at night knowing your not corrupt, Riches will do you no good on the day you face death, but honesty can save your life.

[Winston001]

$44K for a sniper rifle? Seems a bit rich to even me.

At first glance agreed, but it does depend on the rifle. I'd imagine a small army like NZ would have a standard marksman's rifle for snipers, at a cost of say $2500 each.

However there will be guys who are expert and a high-end rifle is justified. Corporal Craig Harrison used an Accuracy International L115A3 for his record hit in Afghanistan. This rifle is reputably Olympic grade and costs $US33,000. So if we were buying those, $44k sounds about right. http://www.gizmag.com/worlds-longest-sniper-kill-247km/14992/

Except...can NZ justify more than a dozen? Or even that many? They'd be better off with some Barrett M82s at 1/3 of the cost, plus a good sniper rifle as standard.

[jono035]

RM - I went for a wander through the Beretta shot in London, they had matched shotguns with gold scrollwork etc. in 12G and 16G for, I think, 185k GBP... Pretty insane.

Funny place to go and have a wander around, too. It's full of tweed, pith hats and mounted antlers.

[The Pastor]

RM - I went for a wander through the Beretta shot in London, they had matched shotguns with gold scrollwork etc. in 12G and 16G for, I think, 185k GBP... Pretty insane.

Funny place to go and have a wander around, too. It's full of tweed, pith hats and mounted antlers.

I wonder if they make an 8 gauge.

[Mr Merde]

Jono,

I can top that. Used to hanf around the Purdy premises on South Audley Street. Shotguns there in the late 70's cost approx 40,000 UKP each and most people ordered two.

Also used to frequent the Holland and Holland shop on Conduit Street, They had jusrt bought out the .700 NE doublke rifle. Rounds alone were 25 UKP each.

Never asked how much for the rifle.

Chris

[jono035]

Jono,

I can top that. Used to hanf around the Purdy premises on South Audley Street. Shotguns there in the late 70's cost approx 40,000 UKP each and most people ordered two.

Also used to frequent the Holland and Holland shop on Conduit Street, They had jusrt bought out the .700 NE doublke rifle. Rounds alone were 25 UKP each.

Never asked how much for the rifle.

Chris

They're still there, I think. My uncle is a pretty keen shooter (I think I mentioned him before, he has the short barrel 9mm chambered 'garden gun') and his wife managed to get him a tour through the place for his birthday, pretty awesome.

[Mr Merde]

Well once again i am off work and sitting at home.

Not my choice unfortunately.

Sold the Suzuki last night. got enough to purchase a new rifle from the USA.

I have been offered a 1999 Marlin CB in 38-55 complete with a Skinner front sight and a Montana Vintage Arms rear ladder "Sharps" long range sight.

The seller has shot this rifle at 1000 yards and rung metal, from a standing position. Along with rifle comes 100 pieces of brass, reloading dies and a wonderful set of shooting sticks made from Cherry wood and bridal leather.

The rifle will cost $950US, the rear sight an extra $100 US. The shooting sticks $125 US. bang goes the budget as there are a few other costs to pay such as an export licence from the US govt etc.

Excited about the rifle. Glad the Suzuki is going to someone who will appreciate it.

personally I'm a little screwed. Went to docs yesterday.

Had a headache for the past teo weeks.

Doc gives me two choices

1) Do as she says
2) Die

Giving the former a go.

BP is through the roof. I'm way past "stroke" territory. She said I'm just a ticking timebomb waiting for a heart attack or major stroke. I have to learn to take it easy, relax more, do more things I enjoy, eat better , take the drugs she has prescribed. Giving up smoking was put on the backburner. it would be too much of a strain on my system and would probably kill me. Basically this old body is worn out (I'm noit really supprised). Lots of blood tests in my future, been refered to the "sleep apthia" clinic etc. I have to loose 15 kg in weight, exercise more but gradually, change my job to one that is less stressful.............

So in summary,

I have sold a bike, bought a couple of shooters and been told I could croak all in two days. Isnt life a bitch?

Chris

[scumdog]

So in summary,

I have sold a bike, bought a couple of shooters and been told I could croak all in two days. Isnt life a bitch?

Chris


Still alive though eh!:woohoo:

[Mr Merde]

Still alive though eh!:woohoo:

I chose the doctors first option.

Spent the day on this damm machine and sleeping.

Started on the tablets.

Going for second blood test on Friday.


Too damm stubborn to not go down fighting

[Indiana_Jones]

Go choice going for option 1 mate...:yes:

Relax, you know how to do that right? if not, feel free to ask :D

I'm sure you'll get right in time :)

-Indy

[scumdog]

Go choice going for option 1 mate...:yes:

Relax, you know how to do that right? if not, feel free to ask :D

I'm sure you'll get right in time :)

-Indy

Damn right Indy.

You never get to reassess option 2 if you don't like it...

[jono035]

Gutted to hear that, mate. Pursue option 1 with vigor.

[sAsLEX]

New gun?

Sounds like time for a shoot!

[Drunken Monkey]

Reckon. Peow peow.

Sounds like it needs to be far enough away to make Merde walk. Sounds like it's lettuce, tofu and no more booze for him at the next BBQ too...More for us I guess.

[The Pastor]

Sounds like it's lettuce, tofu and no more booze for him at the next BBQ too...More for us I guess.

screw that shit.

[Wolf]

Sorry to hear of your health worries, Chris, option 1 sounds like the better long-term plan, tho'. All the best with the decreasing stress and regaining your health.

And congrats on the shooters, they sound great.

Take care, cobber.

[jono035]

Just got back from supervising a group of around 20 people from a local engineering consulting company on a company outing to the CSI range.

Was a pretty good evening, although 20 people is damn crowded in there. Ended up running way overtime but managed to get them all pretty well acquainted with the bolt action .22s, a few people had a go with the other guy's semi-auto .22 rifles and then we managed to get everyone 10 rounds each on Chris's Vostok with the big suppressor mounted on it and my suppressed Ruger .22. Then to round it off, filled a couple of mags for the 9mm and gave most of them a couple of rounds through that as well.

All in all, was pretty awesome to see that many people have such a positive experience (first experience for most, too) and go away grinning ear to ear.

Quite a satisfying evening! The 2x .22 pistols earned their way though, went through 3 bricks of ammo, 1 in the pistols, 2 in the rifles.

[Indiana_Jones]

Great to hear Jono :niceone:

-Indy

[SpankMe]

:blink::shit:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a44_1317400858

[Madness]

:blink::shit:


I love the little "jump" at 0:28.

[Winston001]

http://omgshots.com/519-most-powerful-revolver-fires-3-bullets-at-a-time.html
(http://http//www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/people_and_communities/Families/wealth-and-disparities-in-new-zealand.aspx)

[Indiana_Jones]

http://omgshots.com/519-most-powerful-revolver-fires-3-bullets-at-a-time.html
(http://http//www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/people_and_communities/Families/wealth-and-disparities-in-new-zealand.aspx)

That thing is freakin' sweet lol

-Indy

[Swoop]

Russia has stopped buying new AK-74 rifles. Since they already have ten million AK assault rifles (most of them older AK-47 and AKM models) in stock, and only a million troops on active duty (and about as many in reserve units), buying more assault rifles was deemed wasteful. This will not stop the purchase of special small arms for commando and other specialist combat units.
The new policy will not stop work on a new standard assault rifle, the AK-200. This weapon was based on the 5.45mm AK-74, which replaced the 7.62mm AK-47/AKM series as the standard infantry weapon towards the end of the Cold War. The AK-74 entered service in the 1970s, and twenty years later a replacement was developed, the AN-94. This rifle used the 5.45mm round first seen in the AK-74, but was able to use larger (45-round and 60-round) magazines. The AN-94 also had burst fire (of two rounds, while Western rifles tend to use three rounds).

The AN-94 was supposed to replace all AK-74s in Russian service, but due to the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, and sharp cuts in the defense budget, this did not happen. There were also concerns about the mechanical complexity and reliability of the AN-94. That's apparently why the AK-200 was not based on the AN-94. One AN-94 feature that was adopted for the AK-200 was a 60 round magazine.

Meanwhile, an improved AK-74M was introduced in 1991, and is still in service. This is a 3.4 kg (7.5 pound), 94.3 cm (37.1 inch) weapon with a 41.5 cm (16.3 inch barrel). It has rails for sights and such, and can use a 30 or 45 round magazine. Rate of fire is 650 RPM on full auto, and max effective range was 600 meters. The AK-74 looked like an AK-47, and used the same technology. Some five million AK-74s were built, most before the Cold War ended in 1991. North Korea manufactures a copy of the AK-74, called the Type 98. The AK-74M was the basis for the AK-200, and the two weapons are very similar, with the new rifle having more flexibility and capacity for accessories. Over fifty million AK-47s and AKMs were made, most of them outside Russia. Production, on a small scale, continues.

Meanwhile, several additional AK-74 variants have been developed and put on the market. The AK-101 fires the 5.56mm NATO round and has a 30-round clip. The AK-103 fires the 7.62x39mm round used in the original AK-47, for those who have concerns about the ability of the 5.45mm round to stop enemy troops. The AK-102, 104, and 105 are compact rifles designed for the export market, and are available in 5.56mm NATO, 7.62x39mm, and 5.45x39mm calibers. All have 30-round clips.

The company (Izhmash) that manufactures the AK-74 still has export sales, which actually kept the firm in business for the last two decades. Orders from the Russian military declined steeply with the end of the Cold War and dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, and export sales were pursued aggressively. It was a matter of economic survival for Izhmash, which has been manufacturing weapons since 1807. Izhmash has also tried to shut down all the unlicensed manufacturers of AK-47/74 weapons. This has not been very successful, as during the communist period, things like patents and trademarks were regarded as capitalist degeneracy.

[Indiana_Jones]

Oh dear lol

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10759759

-Indy

[jono035]

Oh dear lol

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10759759

-Indy

Weirdly written, they never once mention that even if he had of been correctly licensed for pistol ownership he wouldn't have been legally allowed to do that, anyway...

[EJK]

Hello guys how are you doing? I got a question about courier and posting guns. I have an air rifle for sale on trademe and people are asking if I can post them to other side of the country. NZ Post said (I rang them) that it is prohibited so.... is there any other company ships air rifles?

Solution?

[scumdog]

Hello guys how are you doing? I got a question about courier and posting guns. I have an air rifle for sale on trademe and people are asking if I can post them to other side of the country. NZ Post said (I rang them) that it is prohibited so.... is there any other company ships air rifles?

Solution?

I see heaps of rifles etc that have been couriered.

Don't ask me how it works - maybe the curiers all have f'arms licence?

And I bet anybody asking questions about ANYTHING to do with guns&ammo on T/M gets pissed off about being asked for their firearms licence number.

Hmm, I wonder what is the weight of that cannon made from empty cartridges.

"Sorry you need to post your firearms licence number to ask the seller a question"

Wankers.

[sAsLEX]

I buy guns online.

There is a form you fill out and take to the police who verify your license for the seller, then they post it signature required.

Dad has had a rifle left on the front doorstep, but they packaged the bolt in a different package .....it was sitting next to it when he got home from work.

I have had rifles and bolts complete couriered to me.

[oldguy]

Hey all, Im in the process of buying and air rifle, for hunting rabbits/opossum and a bit of target practice.
What I want to know which to buy. or could you suggest some other.

.177 cal 1000fps or .22 @725fps, ive been looking at what the Gun Shed have advertised on TM if that's a good thing or not.

[stifmyster1]

Dont tell them that the solution. Its they wont ship if they are in knowledge of because firearms and ammo are supose to be shipped as dangerous goods afaik.

But it ina box. ship. thats it. ive sent several that way. if they ask just say something you sold online. If they keep asking say none of ur business. if they keeo asking go to different post shop

[EJK]

This post office lady said guys at the back scans it or something. That is what gets me aye.

[stifmyster1]

they dont. Scaning would cost quite a bit for them. They would only scan if they think there is something awry. go in. act naural. ship. if they say cant its guns we scanned. just say oh sorry. i wasnt aware of that. and go with a courier.

[jono035]

I've done it a couple of times for both rifles and pistols, it's actually surprisingly common.

My recommendation would be to use a tracked/signed courier service to avoid hassle. It's also perfectly acceptable in my experience to ask if the package can be sent somewhere where the buyer will be able to receive it directly, i.e. a place of work or scheduled for a saturday delivery.

If you're even more paranoid, split it and send it in 2 non-operational pieces, but leave a couple of days in between to avoid them arriving together.

Hell, my .44 mag revolver showed up in working condition, in a box with a couple of speed loaders and 80 full-house rounds. Yikes.

[Shadows]

If you're even more paranoid, split it and send it in 2 non-operational pieces, but leave a couple of days in between to avoid them arriving together.

I must be paranoid because that's what I've always done. The buyers have been OK with that.

[Wolf]

I used a courier to send a rifle to scummy - didn't say what was in it. I also sent the bolt separately as I wasn't going to send something in active form. Especially not to a cop :eek:

I'd go with couriers over NZ Post any day.

[jasonu]

Here is my mates collection. Photo taken today.

[stifmyster1]

how much did that collection cost him

[jasonu]

how much did that collection cost him

Bbout $6k USD.
He bought them all brandy new and I don't think any of them have even been shot.