The firearm thread

[stifmyster1]

Must be rich. I myslef would ove to have that m14 and sig pistol. but currently outside of my pricce range. then again if i actually had somewhere to go and shoot regularly i would grab one of the norinco m14 knockoffs.

[Swoop]

This year, while excavating the site of the World War II crash of a British Spitfire fighter in an Irish peat bog, six intact Browning Mk 2 (7.62mm/.303 caliber) machine-guns were found and recovered intact. One was cleaned-up and test fired. It still worked.
Peat bogs have a remarkable ability to preserve organic and inorganic material, and in this case also cushioned the impact (at 500 kilometers an hour) of the Spitfire as it hit the side of the hill. This sturdy machine-gun was designed by John Browning, one of the most successful firearm designers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. His M1917 7.62mm machine-gun was designed during World War I, and evolved into the 7.62mm M1919 and the 12.7mm M2. This last design, the M2, saw no use in World War I, but by the 1920s, its virtues were noted. It was quickly adapted for use in aircraft and saw widespread use on the ground, at sea and in the air during World War II and after. While aircraft use of the M2 lasted about half a century (being replaced by 20mm and larger caliber autocannon), ground troops continue to use it as the M2 ("Ma Deuce"). The M2 has proved so effective, that it's become too good to replace.

Three years ago, the U.S. Army gave up on getting a replacement for the nearly century old M2 machine-gun, at least not anytime soon. However, many of the current ones were wearing out, so the army began replacing over 80 percent of its 36,600 M2 machine-guns, a process expected to take five years, with new M2s. Numerous efforts to develop a replacement for the M2 have failed so far.

For example, six years ago, field testing of the XM-312, the chief contender to replace the M-2, began, in the United States and overseas. The test results were not encouraging, the biggest shortcoming being the low rate of fire (about 260 rounds per minute). This is about half the rate of the M2, and was believed adequate for the 25mm smart shells the XM312 was originally designed for (as the XM307). But for 12.7mm bullets, it didn't impress the troops. There were some reliability problems (the M2 has only one jam per 10,000 rounds), which were believed fixable. The rate-of-fire issue, however, has proved to be more difficult. Meanwhile, a new upgrade for the M2 has been fielded, and Ma Deuce continued to rule the battlefield. The current M2E2 has a quick change barrel, flash hider and lot of small improvements. It is much in demand, but basically the same M2 of 90 years ago.

Originally, the M2 replacement was going to be the M-307, which was designed so it could fire either the computer controlled 25mm "smart shell" of the XM-25, or (by changing the barrel and receiver), 12.7mm caliber ammo. But it was felt that a straight replacement for the M-2 was needed quickly. The original plan was for the troops to begin getting the XM312 in 2008, or sooner. Didn't happen.

The M-2, nicknamed "Ma Deuce" by the troops, has been around so long because it was very good at what it did. Accurate, reliable, rugged and easy to use, many of the M-2s currently in use are decades old, and finally wearing out. The army didn't want to build new ones, and wasn't sure it could do without the venerable, and very useful, Ma Deuce. So it tried to develop a new .50 caliber machine-gun (the XM312). The XM312 weighs 16.4 kg (36 pounds), compared to 22.7 kg (50 pounds) for the M-2, even with the addition of the electronic fire control stuff from the XM307.

The fire control system, especially the range finder, makes the XM312 much more accurate with first shot hits. American troops testing the XM312 also reacted favorably to the lighter weight and fire control electronics. But the lower rate-of-fire on the XM-312 was a deal killer to the many troops who had used the M2 in combat recently.

The 25mm "smart shell" of the M307 is a promising concept that has since been delivered in a shoulder fired weapon (the M-25). But what the troops really want is a heavy shell that can fire through walls, vehicles and take out enemy troops with one bullet. The 12.7mm bullet does all that. For long range grenades, the troops still prefer the 40mm Mk19. The army has 23,000 of these, and many are old and worn out. Not as bad as the M2 situation, but the army is buying 4,600 new ones over the next few years.

Both the M2 and Mk19 have a max range of 2,000 meters. The Mk19 rate of fire is about 350 rounds a minute, and is usually fired in short (a few rounds) bursts of these 19 ounce grenades (which kill or incapacitate most people with six meters of the explosion). The Mk19 is more complex and expensive ($22,000 each) than the M2 ($14,000 each) and jams more frequently. But it is reliable enough to remain popular and in demand.

The M2 has become even more popular with the addition of night and thermal sights. With these, you can spot enemy troops, over a thousand meters away, at night, as they try to sneak up on you. You can eliminate the threat before they get within rifle or RPG range.

The M2 isn't the only firearm to maintain its popularity. For example, the pre-World War II German Mauser and British Lee-Enfield bolt-action rifles continue in use worldwide, mainly for hunting and sniping. The German MG42 light machine-gun of the early 1940s continues to be popular. But the M2 is the only one that continues in military use, largely unchanged for so long.

[The Pastor]

cool story bro :) (srsly)

Im off hunting in a week, for a week. Gonna blast those japs! (sika)

[sAsLEX]

Likewise. JR and I are particularly disappointed in you! :P
Don't stress too much, I'm sure there will be another.


Man I needed that, just some time to put through some rounds of my familiar ones so I can be more confident about where the bullets fly over different ranges, and man that Norinco M14 is fun to fire!

Many thanks to Mr Merde for introducing me to black powder weapons, some very nice shooters there! And Jono too, for sharing his selection. :)

Great way to spend a Sunday, cheers all!

Getting an itchy trigger finger....... helping it with some spearfishing, but must be about time for another "Club" shoot?

[Drunken Monkey]

I think "when" is wholly dependant on "where". Fix the latter, we can solve the former.

[Drunken Monkey]

Any chance of an OGC get together this break??? Shooting or social only, I don't mind.

[Indiana_Jones]

Well I fly down to Nelson today and am back on the 3rd, so I'm free in early Jan.

-Indy

[jono035]

No luck for me, sorry. Would be really keen but up north then overseas until Feb.

[jasonu]

Ruger 10-22 semi auto with 10 round rotary mag
Ruger 25 round banana mag
Simmons 4x32 22MAG scope

I 'had' to shoot it before xmas to set up the scope...

[jono035]

Ruger 10-22 semi auto with 10 round rotary mag
Ruger 25 round banana mag
Simmons 4x32 22MAG scope

I 'had' to shoot it before xmas to set up the scope...

Nice little toy. Would have loved to have one of those mags for my 10/22, woulda been a lot of fun.

Just spent a week up north, no Possums this time due to weather and my parents already having a full freezer but got tasked with sorting out a family of Magpies that has moved in. Had only brought the .22 with me which was a bit of a pity, but managed to get 3 of the 7 anyway, which will hopefully slow them down a bit.

[Swoop]

... got tasked with sorting out a family of Magpies that has moved in. Had only brought the .22 with me which was a bit of a pity, but managed to get 3 of the 7 anyway, which will hopefully slow them down a bit.
A suppressed .22 on maggies is just the job. Get a magpie distress tape and play it via speakers with a goodly amount of speaker cable to add distance from the shooter to the speaker.
Loads of fun to be had!

[jono035]

A suppressed .22 on maggies is just the job. Get a magpie distress tape and play it via speakers with a goodly amount of speaker cable to add distance from the shooter to the speaker.
Loads of fun to be had!

Ah yeah? Do they actually come in to try find the noise or does it just keep them in the trees nearby?

I've been meaning to pick up one of those cheap Gun City pump-action 12 gauges, that'd probably sort them out as well...

[jasonu]

I've been meaning to pick up one of those cheap Gun City pump-action 12 gauges, that'd probably sort them out as well...

But there'd be nothing left to BBQ...

[jono035]

But there'd be nothing left to BBQ...

That's ok, like I said there's plenty of possum in the freezer! :lol:

[Swoop]

Ah yeah? Do they actually come in to try find the noise or does it just keep them in the trees nearby?
Yes, they will come in to investigate, not just stay in the trees. You do need good camo to hide everything, as they are smart buggers.

[The Pastor]

http://intheredexplodingtargets.com/main.sc

[sAsLEX]

http://intheredexplodingtargets.com/main.sc

Plaster of paris and a bunny mould.

Simple.

[The Pastor]

Plaster of paris and a bunny mould.

Simple.

need more boom ;-)

[The Pastor]

http://youtu.be/_ENZioGLjMI

how to look after your glock .45

[Flip]

I'm having a bit of a nasty discussion with the local cops about firearms security.

Seems they don't like my E cat safe being installed in my workshop which is away from my house. It has to be installed in my "premises" to the act which they have taken to mean my home.

My workshop is a concrete and oamaru stone industural building with bars on the window and a heavy steel sliding door. It used to be a engineering machine shop. The safe is also in a locked concrete boiler room with a explosion proof steel door. The safe has its own internal battery alarm, and the building has a seperate monitored alarm. There are 3 flats above the workshop and two businnesses in front, so there are people around all the time. The businnsees have a security guard that comes around a couple of times a night also.

My house is a rented light timber construction building with no security and nobody around during the day.

Is there anybody at the firearms office sensible I can talk to?

[imac]

Go to the top. Joe Green, police HQ

[jono035]

I'm having a bit of a nasty discussion with the local cops about firearms security.

Seems they don't like my E cat safe being installed in my workshop which is away from my house. It has to be installed in my "premises" to the act which they have taken to mean my home.

My workshop is a concrete and oamaru stone industural building with bars on the window and a heavy steel sliding door. It used to be a engineering machine shop. The safe is also in a locked concrete boiler room with a explosion proof steel door. The safe has its own internal battery alarm, and the building has a seperate monitored alarm. There are 3 flats above the workshop and two businnesses in front, so there are people around all the time. The businnsees have a security guard that comes around a couple of times a night also.

My house is a rented light timber construction building with no security and nobody around during the day.

Is there anybody at the firearms office sensible I can talk to?

When I got mine installed, it was in a detached garage on the same property. I asked a bunch of questions and the Arms Officer seemed mostly concerned with the idea that someone could get inside and start working on the safe without anyone knowing. Having it be your home is simply a way to make it more likely that someone can't work on it undetected. The only issues the AO had with my detached garage was that it had no alarm and that it was a joint garage with a low dividing wall that someone could hop over. His suggestion was simply to board up the area and stick an alarm in, although he didn't add that as a condition of the license. I ended up moving into a place that had an alarm and an attached garage.

Is it going to be a problem installing it in your house? Ultimately it may not make sense, but I just tried to think of it as an exercise in appeasing the AO, rather than of actual firearm safety.

Has the AO actually seen the workshop? Maybe try make an appointment with him to check the premises out. If you have a friendly chat with him, he might provide some answers as to what he's actually worried about (maybe the rental accommodation above it allowing a partially 'inside job' or something like that).

It's tough to say. The guy I was dealing with was pretty reasonable and up-front about what he was worried about and what he was trying to prevent.

[The Pastor]

Heading up to puhoi for a short ride and pint on Sunday afternoon (weather dependant), feel free to join me!

Meet at 2.30pm at the petrol station in old Albany village and head up sh17, then through owrea / wairewa up to puhoi. (to avoid the gravel).

http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=232+Dairy+Flat+Highway,+Auckland,+New+Z ealand&daddr=Dairy+Flat,+Auckland,+New+Zealand+to:Silverd ale,+Auckland,+New+Zealand+to:Orewa,+Auckland,+New +Zealand+to:5+Saleyards+Road,+Puhoi,+Auckland,+New +Zealand&hl=en&ll=-36.571424,174.727249&spn=0.440614,0.617294&sll=-36.668419,174.706306&sspn=0.22003,0.308647&geocode=FTihz_0dT6FpCimxv6F1jDsNbTGAzoYGYe8AEw%3BF Y2D0P0db8doCikLED4O0zwNbTHAvqJDYe8ABQ%3BFb890f0dkF tpCim1ayEFfiQNbTGgA6NDYe8ABQ%3BFVDP0f0doI5pCinHd0r Q_SMNbTGw8KJDYe8ABQ%3BFfXd0v0djxtpCilTvqov7SANbTGC M0UFYME4VQ&oq=dairy+flat&mra=ls&t=h&z=11

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10786217

What did they have? Prolly a couple of slingshots and a slug gun...

[Winston001]

Was watching Son of a Gun on Discovery. They were working on a Lottie which I eventually worked out was a Lahte L39 rifle. A Serious bit of equipment I'd never hear of.

20mm sniper antimateriel rifle. Makes the Barrett look ordinary.

http://cyberpunk.net.pl/zbrojownia/bron_reczna/ciezka/kar_wsparcia/gfx/lahti8.jpg

[carver]

It literally deformed, fell apart and got totally fucked up in my saiga, dont buy it

[Drunken Monkey]

I have no trouble with it in the pump action.

[carver]

I have no trouble with it in the pump action.

those are from my saiga semi 410

[scumdog]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10786217

What did they have? Prolly a couple of slingshots and a slug gun...

A bit more than that is all I can say - and more than will be brought out in Court.

[Flip]

When I got mine installed, it was in a detached garage on the same property. I asked a bunch of questions and the Arms Officer seemed mostly concerned with the idea that someone could get inside and start working on the safe without anyone knowing. Having it be your home is simply a way to make it more likely that someone can't work on it undetected. The only issues the AO had with my detached garage was that it had no alarm and that it was a joint garage with a low dividing wall that someone could hop over. His suggestion was simply to board up the area and stick an alarm in, although he didn't add that as a condition of the license. I ended up moving into a place that had an alarm and an attached garage.

Is it going to be a problem installing it in your house? Ultimately it may not make sense, but I just tried to think of it as an exercise in appeasing the AO, rather than of actual firearm safety.

Has the AO actually seen the workshop? Maybe try make an appointment with him to check the premises out. If you have a friendly chat with him, he might provide some answers as to what he's actually worried about (maybe the rental accommodation above it allowing a partially 'inside job' or something like that).

It's tough to say. The guy I was dealing with was pretty reasonable and up-front about what he was worried about and what he was trying to prevent.

Well the inspector finally came out.

He agreed that the workshop had several desireable features, the folks around 24-7, the securuty guard, the 12" thick concrete and stone building and the big heavy industural steel and wood door, bars on the windows that would be impossible to replicate in a house.

I explained to him that to me a premises was a building I was control of and a residence was a home and that the act said premises not residence. The issue now is the firearms inspector and the firearms officer who is based in Dunedin is not the same person.

[The Pastor]

going hunting soon :D should be a good trip :D

[cruza]

Well the inspector finally came out.

He agreed that the workshop had several desireable features, the folks around 24-7, the securuty guard, the 12" thick concrete and stone building and the big heavy industural steel and wood door, bars on the windows that would be impossible to replicate in a house.

I explained to him that to me a premises was a building I was control of and a residence was a home and that the act said premises not residence. The issue now is the firearms inspector and the firearms officer who is based in Dunedin is not the same person.

Hasn't been a problem in the past , several of my friends currently store their firearms at their work buildings in safes. All been approved.

[jono035]

Hasn't been a problem in the past , several of my friends currently store their firearms at their work buildings in safes. All been approved.

The main issue is that this is so dependent on the individual inspector and there is very little recourse. I've heard tell of one local AO who refuses to allow the use of Ramset bolts, chemsets have to be used regardless of whether they're appropriate or not.

[sAsLEX]

going hunting soon :D should be a good trip :D



same a week and a bit down South at the normal place, hopefully do more than just see a couple this time!

[The Pastor]

same a week and a bit down South at the normal place, hopefully do more than just see a couple this time!

good luck mate. im off to the ureaweras, going to be a wet week in the bush hahaha

[jono035]

Anyone doing the easter bunny shoot this year?

[sAsLEX]

Anyone doing the easter bunny shoot this year?

I think we should look to put a group together for next year!

[The Pastor]

I think we should look to put a group together for next year!

you need a few quads or at least utes dont you?

[Swoop]

Did anybody else hear the rock this morning? The interview with the inventor of the "bed bunker" was entertaining.

Had to go and research what the product was that he was talking about.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7vob-w_kjYc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[The Pastor]

so last hunting trip i went on, i didnt fire my rifle.

being stainless, i thought it'd be ok to chuck in its box without cleaning it.

WRONG. Pulled it out last night and there is rust everywhere!

I'll get a photo tonight, Just a word of warning, always clean your rifle, and put a very light coat of oil over all parts before storage.

[Flip]

Anyone doing the easter bunny shoot this year?

Just got back, Team Bastard strikes again. Did very well considering the nature of the property.

[Drunken Monkey]

so last hunting trip i went on, i didnt fire my rifle.

being stainless, i thought it'd be ok to chuck in its box without cleaning it.

WRONG. Pulled it out last night and there is rust everywhere!

I'll get a photo tonight, Just a word of warning, always clean your rifle, and put a very light coat of oil over all parts before storage.

Pic?

Very interested to see the result. I have been moving away from blued to parkerized/stainless FA's because I'm lazy and my storage isn't humidity controlled. I notice I still have to keep a cursory eye on them, they do last longer without interim maintenance than blued, but they aren't maintenance free.

[jono035]

Yeah, it's pretty dependent on the type of steel used. When it does rust, it does so more slowly and doesn't seem to do the rust-flake-rust more that plain steel does.

One thing to watch is stainless parts resting against steel parts (trigger internals, bolt, suppressor etc.) because any moisture will corrode it, but it'd have to be pretty well drenched...

My Stirling stainless bolt action .22 has never exactly looked perfect in the finish department, but I don't think I've cleaned it more than once a year, and definitely not after every damp trudge through the bush...

[The Pastor]

pics didnt turn out good enough to see the rust. but yeah gotta clean it. Took my rifle for a swim on the weekend....

[Monsterbishi]

The main issue is that this is so dependent on the individual inspector and there is very little recourse. I've heard tell of one local AO who refuses to allow the use of Ramset bolts, chemsets have to be used regardless of whether they're appropriate or not.

The AO doesn't have much say in the matter when POL67N Clearly states that expanding bolts are fine to use when setting E-cat safes(and one would assume, anything lesser) into concrete.

[jono035]

The AO doesn't have much say in the matter when POL67N Clearly states that expanding bolts are fine to use when setting E-cat safes(and one would assume, anything lesser) into concrete.

Well, all he has to say is that he doesn't think that expanding bolts are usually enough and that he only approves chemsets. Whether this is right or not, most people will still go and use chemsets. For most people, their AO is someone they're going to have to deal with every time they want to get a new firearm on their B/C/E and so they probably don't want to antagonise the guy. I also remember the process being quite daunting when I started out, although I'm a bit jaded about the whole thing now...

Basically, even if the guy approves every dynabolt he sees, saying that he only approves chemsets is misleading enough to be an issue.

[Timber020]

I think we should look to put a group together for next year!

I got on a team this year who were there last year and we didnt get a block even after we had paid up and registered months before. didnt tell us until a few days before the shoot (they dropped 15 teams this year). Airfare wasted.

[Flip]

I got on a team this year who were there last year and we didnt get a block even after we had paid up and registered months before. didnt tell us until a few days before the shoot (they dropped 15 teams this year). Airfare wasted.

It pays to have another back up property organised if you are coming down for this hunt.

The organisers have been having problems with some teams, eg leaving gates open, a year ago a road gate was left open and a mob of sheep and some road users Prado was cleaned up when the stock got out. I know that Dave say they will black list people and teams if there is a problem.

On another topic the Firearms inspector visited the workshop and he was more than happy with the security, however his boss in Dunedin still won't let me leave the safe in the workshop because she believes premsis and residence are the same thing. Is there anybody I can contact at HO about this?

[avgas]

A suppressed .22 on maggies is just the job. Get a magpie distress tape and play it via speakers with a goodly amount of speaker cable to add distance from the shooter to the speaker.
Loads of fun to be had!
Your doing better than me. I got so frustrated with them I ended up running up to them and 20 gauging them from about 5-10m.

[Swoop]

Your doing better than me. I got so frustrated with them I ended up running up to them and 20 gauging them from about 5-10m.
I love the expression on their face.

When you get two of them together and pop one = 1 now laying on the ground.
The head of the other comes up and there is something akin to "Barry! What are you doing laying down! Stand up for goodness sake, the neighbours are watching. Whatever will they say! Ooh! I now feel like laying down as well..."

If real life had "speech bubbles".:rofl:

[scumdog]

On another topic the Firearms inspector visited the workshop and he was more than happy with the security, however his boss in Dunedin still won't let me leave the safe in the workshop because she believes premsis and residence are the same thing. Is there anybody I can contact at HO about this?

'SHE'?, fuckin' 'she' - well that is your problem Flip - a sheila that knows jack-shit about fire-arms etc. - don't ask how I know - well not on an open forum.

Personally I think she needs turfed out, practical she ain't.

Tom

[Flip]

'SHE'?, fuckin' 'she' - well that is your problem Flip - a sheila that knows jack-shit about fire-arms etc. - don't ask how I know - well not on an open forum.

Personally I think she needs turfed out, practical she ain't.

Tom

Cheers

The alarm system is installed and I am moving the safe tomorow. I did read the act and it does not say that they can't be at home however the security is at the recomendation of the fire arms officer. I expect I would have to go to court to get this resolved and it's no problem to have them at home. It's just that the workshop is much more secure than any home could ever be.

The local inspector was a good bugger and tried to point out that the workshop has a very high level of security, but was over ruled.

[pritch]

'SHE'?, fuckin' 'she' - well that is your problem Flip -

LOL I remember one of those. She had no idea what 6mm thickness steel looked like so they gave her a vernier caliper. Being tight in the money dept, it wasn't digital, or even a dial caliper, so there was no way she could ever read it. She just carried it around as if it was some badge of office.

Her specialty was saying things that had multiple people doing the eyes-to-heaven thing in unison. Fortunately one of those people was her boss, she was moved on without delay.

[sAsLEX]

Will a .22 knock over a turkey?

Mate wants some culled, and the .22 is soo much cheaper to do that!

[Monsterbishi]

Will a .22 knock over a turkey?

Mate wants some culled, and the .22 is soo much cheaper to do that!

Yes, but you'll need to be a good shot.

Cheapest way is with a cricket bat.

[sAsLEX]

Yes, but you'll need to be a good shot.

Cheapest way is with a cricket bat.

or 25 not so good shots......

[jono035]

New Toy:

262374

AR-15 with Yankee Hill Lower, CMMG Upper in 300 AAC Blackout. The Trijcon scope is borrowed but it's a damn nice scope, might have to breathe deep and pick one up.

Yet to come: A good over-barrel suppressor, replacement scope and maybe a target trigger depending on whether I get used to the mil-spec trigger in there currently.

Whaddaya reckon RM, should work for Fallow, eh? :D

[Swoop]

Will a .22 knock over a turkey?

Mate wants some culled, and the .22 is soo much cheaper to do that!
I laughed.

Thought I'd be a smartarse and headshoot one at 80m... downhill... with subs.
Watched it bugger off. Laughing at my poor attempt.
Forgot to deduct for downhill trajectory.:facepalm::pinch::no:


A mate says the best way is to use a machete at night. When they sleep on a fencepost just tap them on the shoulder to wake them up and then apply machete to neck when they raise head to see who's tapping them on the head.

[sAsLEX]

New Toy:

262374

AR-15 with Yankee Hill Lower, CMMG Upper in 300 AAC Blackout. The Trijcon scope is borrowed but it's a damn nice scope, might have to breathe deep and pick one up.

Yet to come: A good over-barrel suppressor, replacement scope and maybe a target trigger depending on whether I get used to the mil-spec trigger in there currently.

Whaddaya reckon RM, should work for Fallow, eh? :D

A Cat?

[jono035]

A Cat?

Yeah, don't have my E yet, although I think I might buy the safe anyway.

That's a muzzle brake on the front end, although I'm going to talk to them next week about the suppressor, which will mean that having the brake on there will be short lived.

[sAsLEX]

Yeah, don't have my E yet, although I think I might buy the safe anyway.

That's a muzzle brake on the front end, although I'm going to talk to them next week about the suppressor, which will mean that having the brake on there will be short lived.

Looks awfully similar to a flash suppressor......

[jono035]

Looks awfully similar to a flash suppressor......

That's mostly the problem with the BS idea of having a flash suppressor be part of the requirements for E-cat. Thankfully, it's a threaded part, so if it were to be an issue, I would remove it post haste and then stick a suppressor (aka a MUCH better flash hider) on.

It only has the ports in the upper side of the piece and the internal diameter is only slightly larger than the diameter of the grooves, therefore it will definitely work as a muzzle brake. It's just turned to look like the standard M4 birdcage suppressor.

Unless you make the argument that anything that suppresses a flash is a flash hider (which is an issue because of the issue of existing suppressor and muzzle brake designs that do this) then you'd have to prove that it didn't prevent muzzle climb, which it will.

Edit: The other option is to try legislate on what it looks like, and we've already been down that road in court recently :D

[scumdog]

E cat legislation was produced by morons mimicing irrelevant legislation from overseas...<_<

[frogfeaturesFZR]

E cat legislation was produced by morons mimicing irrelevant legislation from overseas...<_<

Correct, but you KNOW that the country is a safer place as a result, D'oh, sorry TUI moment !

[carver]

Will a .22 knock over a turkey?

Mate wants some culled, and the .22 is soo much cheaper to do that!

it takes a few clips

[scumdog]

Will a .22 knock over a turkey?




No sweat, get close and go for head-shots.

[The Pastor]

once took 11 shots to kill a turkey with a .22.

but then i cant shoot for shit.


Shotgun is probably the best bet.

[sAsLEX]

once took 11 shots to kill a turkey with a .22.

but then i cant shoot for shit.


Shotgun is probably the best bet.

Got a couple in the head, and a few body shots would knock them over enough to chase them down and break their necks, quite fun once they started running and flying and providing some challenging shots!

Got rid of one mob of 12 odd

[jono035]

Anyone have any spare .223 brass laying around? Could do with a hundred rounds or so to play with for making .300 Blackout cases.

[Mr Merde]

Anyone have any spare .223 brass laying around? Could do with a hundred rounds or so to play with for making .300 Blackout cases.

I think I have a few lying around.

Chris

[oldguy]

Got a couple in the head, and a few body shots would knock them over enough to chase them down and break their necks, quite fun once they started running and flying and providing some challenging shots!

Got rid of one mob of 12 odd

Don't let the RSPCA get wind of that,

this is my take on it,

If I don't think I can kill on the first shot, then I don't pull the trigger.

[5150]

You have to be 18 to own one or hold a firearms license.
I use it more often than my beretta as well.

Those boucing tits of your sure are distracting. Might have to pop few caps into them...:msn-wink:

[Swoop]

Interesting to see the new takedown Ruger 10/22. (http://www.guncity.co.nz/22lr-ruger-10-22-takedown-stainless-synthetic-xidp242803.html) A very fast system to use but I wonder how it will retain accuracy over time. The Marlin papoose suffers a bit of "slop" I am led to believe.

[jono035]

Interesting to see the new takedown Ruger 10/22. (http://www.guncity.co.nz/22lr-ruger-10-22-takedown-stainless-synthetic-xidp242803.html) A very fast system to use but I wonder how it will retain accuracy over time. The Marlin papoose suffers a bit of "slop" I am led to believe.

Yeah, my 10/22 changed POI whenever I removed and remounted the barrel, so I'm sure this will be the same deal, especially considering it doesn't appear to apply as much force as the normal clamping block. Oh well, horses for courses, I guess. Could always mount a long eye-relief scope or red-dot on the barrel itself?

That said, the action isn't very long, so if you needed it short, could chop down the barrel a bit and then just drop the stock off? Can still be fired like that so could be a legal issue.

5150 - Nice avatar, gotta love Aces High Eddy...

[The Pastor]

would be nice to fit inside a backpack for the bike i guess.

i would love a take down .30 cal with some subsonics

[scumdog]

Don't let the RSPCA get wind of that,

this is my take on it,

If I don't think I can kill on the first shot, then I don't pull the trigger.

Amen to that.

Don't give the critter-cuddlers any more ammo to have a go at us hunters.

[scumdog]

Interesting to see the new takedown Ruger 10/22. (http://www.guncity.co.nz/22lr-ruger-10-22-takedown-stainless-synthetic-xidp242803.html) A very fast system to use but I wonder how it will retain accuracy over time. The Marlin papoose suffers a bit of "slop" I am led to believe.

I have a modified Gevarm take-down .22 that measures a total of 765mm assembled.

Unassembled the longest bit is about 280mm.

[jono035]

I have a modified Gevarm take-down .22 that measures a total of 765mm assembled.

Unassembled the longest bit is about 280mm.

Ah yeah, got one of those in the shed waiting for the trigger housing to be given the J-B Weld treatment. There's a suspicious looking hole in the side of the stock right where the trigger disconnector is...

Edit: Not that I'd ever accuse one of those things of being accurate, holy crap. Definitely scope-on-barrel required...

[scumdog]

Edit: Not that I'd ever accuse one of those things of being accurate, holy crap. Definitely scope-on-barrel required...

Nah - a shot at longish range? - just push upwards on the forend a bit!!:laugh:

[SMOKEU]

Shotgun = winning. Just a shame my one is a skeet gun and can't take a choke, so it's only useful up to around 25m :no:

[Fast Eddie]

haha, anyone know where I can get bullets for my pistol?

I fired the last one last year.. no idea where I could get more..

pistol barrel bore is about 1.9mm-2.0mm diameter ;)

263194263195263196

I still have the last empty shell that I fired, its tiny so couldn't get a photo of it on my cellphone.

would be choice to find some more bullets for it. The bullets it came with were real, little shells with gunpowder and a little lead tip.

[Mr Merde]

haha, anyone know where I can get bullets for my pistol?

I fired the last one last year.. no idea where I could get more..

pistol barrel bore is about 1.9mm-2.0mm diameter ;)

263194263195263196

I still have the last empty shell that I fired, its tiny so couldn't get a photo of it on my cellphone.

would be choice to find some more bullets for it. The bullets it came with were real, little shells with gunpowder and a little lead tip.

Flobert rounds.

I have seen them for sale somewhere. Not cheap but they are out there. I'll have a look and try to find them for you.

2mm ? 3mm?

Chris

[Fast Eddie]

Flobert rounds.

I have seen them for sale somewhere. Not cheap but they are out there. I'll have a look and try to find them for you.

2mm ? 3mm?

Chris

I would say 2mm, I tried to measure it and come up with 1.9mm so I'd say 2mm is right.

much appreciated mate, that would be fantastic! I had no idea where to start looking for them.

[Hans]

Wow, what a day. After being badgered by a mate for a long time, I tried the distinctly Anglo-saxon sport of Fullbore. Having not fired anything other than a .22 since becoming a civilian 8 years ago...I'VE STILL GOT IT!!! FUCKING YEEEEHAAAA! Shot a 41/50 open sights and 54/60 scoped. Thanks to the Karori Rifle Club and my awesome spotter. I will be back for the next season.

[Flip]

How was every bodys opening day??

Crap weather for duck hunting down here today.

[Fast Eddie]

Weather was good in Dunedin, didn't get any ducks tho. bloody hard to catch em by hand.

[Geordie_Biker6]

haha, anyone know where I can get bullets for my pistol?

I fired the last one last year.. no idea where I could get more..

pistol barrel bore is about 1.9mm-2.0mm diameter ;)

263194263195263196

I still have the last empty shell that I fired, its tiny so couldn't get a photo of it on my cellphone.

would be choice to find some more bullets for it. The bullets it came with were real, little shells with gunpowder and a little lead tip.

Holy crap man! Your bullets have gunpowder in them! Fuck me! Just goes to show you the advancments in technology eh

[Mr Merde]

haha, anyone know where I can get bullets for my pistol?

I fired the last one last year.. no idea where I could get more..

pistol barrel bore is about 1.9mm-2.0mm diameter ;)

263194263195263196

I still have the last empty shell that I fired, its tiny so couldn't get a photo of it on my cellphone.

would be choice to find some more bullets for it. The bullets it came with were real, little shells with gunpowder and a little lead tip.

OK here is a site that sells rounds for this pistol.

I am assuming it is pinfire.

http://2mmpinfireworld.weebly.com/ammo.html

Not cheap, about $70 US

Chris

[Scuba_Steve]

hey guys n girls, anyone know if the Firearms amendment is still on the cards & if so when it's passing through the house of dictators is supposed to happen???

[Mr Merde]

hey guys n girls, anyone know if the Firearms amendment is still on the cards & if so when it's passing through the house of dictators is supposed to happen???

Goobermint has it at #6 on the list for its second reading.

Chris

[carburator]

Interesting to see the new takedown Ruger 10/22. (http://www.guncity.co.nz/22lr-ruger-10-22-takedown-stainless-synthetic-xidp242803.html) A very fast system to use but I wonder how it will retain accuracy over time. The Marlin papoose suffers a bit of "slop" I am led to believe.

most accurate "takedown" gun ive owned is a single shot H&R.
the scope is mounted to the barrel not the action ( theres half the issue solved )

the marlin papoose and the norinco variant, meh spray and pray...

[Fast Eddie]

Holy crap man! Your bullets have gunpowder in them! Fuck me! Just goes to show you the advancments in technology eh

incredible isn't it? haha

[Fast Eddie]

OK here is a site that sells rounds for this pistol.

I am assuming it is pinfire.

http://2mmpinfireworld.weebly.com/ammo.html

Not cheap, about $70 US

Chris

thanks Chris, yea not too cheap but worth it. Its a cool little piece. thank you very much for digging that out for me, I did google flobert rounds but it was tough finding anything useful

now I know nothing about guns, can't get a license I don't think.. this is the only wee thing I've had. It looks like the hammer strikes from the top, the shell itself has a little bit sticking up which the hammer strikes down on.

as opposed to what I would think is a normal hammer that hits the shell from the rear and fires it.

am i making any sense?

[Mr Merde]

thanks Chris, yea not too cheap but worth it. Its a cool little piece. thank you very much for digging that out for me, I did google flobert rounds but it was tough finding anything useful

now I know nothing about guns, can't get a license I don't think.. this is the only wee thing I've had. It looks like the hammer strikes from the top, the shell itself has a little bit sticking up which the hammer strikes down on.

as opposed to what I would think is a normal hammer that hits the shell from the rear and fires it.

am i making any sense?

Makes perfect sense. You have just described pinfire.

A small pin sticks out of on side. When the hammer strikes it it goes inside the case and strikes the primer. This in turn ignites the powder and drives the projectile out the barrel.

A lot of European guns of the 19th century were pinfire ( mostly France and Belgium). They ranged in size from these 2mm rounds to 15 mm rounds. The southern states of America were a big user of pinfire handguns in the US civil war as they shipped a lot of their supplies from Europe.

I have recently found a site the sells reloading equipment for pinfire rounds. Not this little one but for the larger rounds.

Glad I could help.

Chris

[Akzle]

according to the powers that control, it does.wrong. they're mentioned in the arms act but not classed as firearms.

[Scuba_Steve]

wrong. they're mentioned in the arms act but not classed as firearms.

wow way to go back awhile. But FYI paintball & airsoft ARE firearms under law, else I'd have me a standard speedball marker with all the ramping & auto options already

[Mr Merde]

It is strange what can be considered a firearm.

Just imagine this scenario...

You set out to rob a bank.

You are at the tellers counter and pass a note across saying "give me the money or I will shoot"

The teller looks at you and sees you have one of your hands in a pocket and there is a bulge showimg.

The teller assumes you have a firearm but in reality you are holding a toothbrush in your hand.

The police come and you are charged with presenting a firearm and armed robbery.

Why? Because that law states that "it is or appears to be" a firearm, therefore it is armed robbery.

A toothbrush in this case is a firearm.

Chris

[Akzle]

wow way to go back awhile. But FYI paintball & airsoft ARE firearms under law, else I'd have me a standard speedball marker with all the ramping & auto options already
noooope. you're still wrong.
it's the firing mechanism in this case that classes it as a restricted weapon.(not a firearm)

F Your I, you can buy,import and fit ramping boards, just don't get caught without a C cat. and most fields, if they find out, will kick/ban you. i ran an automatic for years, but it was a shyte board so I could actually fire faster on semi.
my mate put a ramping in is angel, it fired ropes, call hit and there's still another 10 balls gonna hit you.
so here's my proof: (where's yours?)

Arms Act Sec 2(c) (airgunnot firearm) any weapon from which, by the use of gas or compressed air (and not by force of explosive), any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile can be discharged
and Sec 4 of the Arms (Restricted Weapons and Specially Dangerous Airguns) Order 1984 says: "Machine carbines or guns, submachine carbines or guns, and machine pistols, of any kind whatsoever, including those operated by gas or compressed air and including all other firearms capable of full automatic fire."


and senhõr merde, the term/clause you are probably mis-interpreting is "imitation firearm" being that it is illegal to carry, possess, present or discharge one in or near a public place so as may cause danger to persons, property or that may frighten or annoy any member of the public without sufficient reason.

what the tooth-brush-bandit would probably be charged with would be threatening/menacing behaviour under the crimes act as well as aggravated burglary etc.
i would highly doubt he'd be charged with a firearms offence.
but feel free to troll nzlii.org for some case law to back up your assertion.

[Fast Eddie]

Makes perfect sense. You have just described pinfire.

A small pin sticks out of on side. When the hammer strikes it it goes inside the case and strikes the primer. This in turn ignites the powder and drives the projectile out the barrel.

A lot of European guns of the 19th century were pinfire ( mostly France and Belgium). They ranged in size from these 2mm rounds to 15 mm rounds. The southern states of America were a big user of pinfire handguns in the US civil war as they shipped a lot of their supplies from Europe.

I have recently found a site the sells reloading equipment for pinfire rounds. Not this little one but for the larger rounds.

Glad I could help.

Chris

many thanks again Chris. you have been very helpful. Going to try order some of those rounds soon. Will let you know when/if they arrive hehe.

cheers

[Winston001]

It is strange what can be considered a firearm.

Just imagine this scenario...

You set out to rob a bank.

You are at the tellers counter and pass a note across saying "give me the money or I will shoot"

The teller looks at you and sees you have one of your hands in a pocket and there is a bulge showimg.

The teller assumes you have a firearm but in reality you are holding a toothbrush in your hand.

The police come and you are charged with presenting a firearm and armed robbery.

Why? Because that law states that "it is or appears to be" a firearm, therefore it is armed robbery.

A toothbrush in this case is a firearm.

Chris

Nup.

The law says that if you indicate or imply that you have a firearm and members of the public believe you, then you are committing an armed robbery. That's why pointing a water pistol can lead to an arms charge.

It doesn't matter that it's a toothbrush. If the law were otherwise the teller would have to call your bluff and get shot just to prove you had a real gun - which is not in the public interest.

Apart from that, the toothbrush robber could successfully defend the charge but will certainly be convicted of robbery with menaces anyway.

The central point is the law does not construct a gun out of a toothbrush. The criminal does that all by himself.

[sAsLEX]

Nup.

The law says that if you indicate or imply that you have a firearm and members of the public believe you, then you are committing an armed robbery. That's why pointing a water pistol can lead to an arms charge.

It doesn't matter that it's a toothbrush. If the law were otherwise the teller would have to call your bluff and get shot just to prove you had a real gun - which is not in the public interest.

Apart from that, the toothbrush robber could successfully defend the charge but will certainly be convicted of robbery with menaces anyway.

The central point is the law does not construct a gun out of a toothbrush. The criminal does that all by himself.

Did you read what you quoted?

[Mr Merde]

Ever wonder why some people just seem to drift away from KB.

One day they are there fully interacting the next they have started just popping in occasionally and finally they just disappear.

[The Pastor]

Ever wonder why some people just seem to drift away from KB.

One day they are there fully interacting the next they have started just popping in occasionally and finally they just disappear.

maybe they are practising magicians?

[Mr Merde]

So how did I spend the weekend?

100 rounds of 38-55 from my Marlin 336 CB and its MVA rear post sight.

Grouping 2" at 100 yards and making tin cans dance.

Bit more work to do to get the ragged hole we all lust after ;-)

50 rounds of 32-40 Black Powder (the Holy Black). Aftwer slugging the barrel I found the bore to be .323. I previously was loading .321 bullets. Bought a new mould castin .324 bullets. Gone from an 18" group at 100 meters to a 3" group at 100 meters. More work to do on my reloads but I have mede a start.

Both Marlins behaved flawlessly.\

Guns put away and with 80% of a large bottle of rum shared between the three of I I was taken home in a very merry state. Good shooting, good company, lots of swapping BS. Happier than I have been for a long time.

Chris

[The Pastor]

So how did I spend the weekend?

100 rounds of 38-55 from my Marlin 336 CB and its MVA rear post sight.

Grouping 2" at 100 yards and making tin cans dance.

Bit more work to do to get the ragged hole we all lust after ;-)

50 rounds of 32-40 Black Powder (the Holy Black). Aftwer slugging the barrel I found the bore to be .323. I previously was loading .321 bullets. Bought a new mould castin .324 bullets. Gone from an 18" group at 100 meters to a 3" group at 100 meters. More work to do on my reloads but I have mede a start.

Both Marlins behaved flawlessly.\

Guns put away and with 80% of a large bottle of rum shared between the three of I I was taken home in a very merry state. Good shooting, good company, lots of swapping BS. Happier than I have been for a long time.

Chris

Sounds like you had a great weekend :)

[Mr Merde]

The past 18 months has been a real bugger and I have hardly burnt any powder.

Needed to get out and have some fun.

I have been pretty much on the wagon for the past year. A session on the rhum was enjoyable. Sharron says I am a "happy" drunk.

Application ready for my collectors licence. References sorted. just gotta make payment and wait.

Anyone interested in a Weatherby Vangard in .223

Only shot 300 rounds max.

Not using it and need cash to sort out bike.

PM me if interested

Chris

[scumdog]

Anyone interested in a Weatherby Vangard in .223

Only shot 300 rounds max.

Not using it and need cash to sort out bike.

PM me if interested

Chris

Not intending to buy it but will pass the word around.

How well did it group?

[sAsLEX]

Anyone interested in a Weatherby Vangard in .223
Chris

Would it build up a nice varmint gun?

[The Pastor]

Not intending to buy it but will pass the word around.

How well did it group?

... not sure if that would reflect on the rifle, or the shooter ;-P

[Akzle]

The law says that if you indicate or imply that you have a firearm and members of the public believe you, then you are committing an armed robbery. That's why pointing a water pistol can lead to an arms charge.
what 'law' are you referring to?

hint: quote the "Act" and "section" of New Zealand Legislation, that backs up what you're saying..

[Scuba_Steve]

what 'law' are you referring to?

hint: quote the "Act" and "section" of New Zealand Legislation, that backs up what you're saying..

Right here, Arms Act 1983 52(2)


52 Presenting firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon at other person
(1)Every person commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to a fine not exceeding $1,000 or to both who, except for some lawful and sufficient purpose, presents a firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon (whether or not the firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon is loaded or capable at the time of the offence of discharging any shot, bullet, missile, or other projectile) at any other person.
(2)Every person commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months or to a fine not exceeding $1,000 or to both who, except for some lawful or sufficient purpose, presents at any person anything which, in the circumstances, is likely to lead that person to believe that it is a firearm, airgun, pistol, or restricted weapon.

[Mr Merde]

So a pointed finger inside a pocket would be proscecuted under this act as a firearms offence if there is cause to believe it is a firearm etc.

This is what I was trying to explain in my toothbrush analogy.

It is also how some of the shootings by police officers have been explained. They believed there was a firearm involved therefore they were correct in responding with reasonable force. Doesnt explain why this force was used in such cases as weilding a golf club though.

[The Pastor]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/VH3wWVQZaq0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Skip to 1min if you wanna skip the story bit.

Basicly a cop pulls over a biker, then shoots the SOB as he thinks he is "reaching" for a gun.

The cop got charged, I think the biker got a life in a wheelchair.

[Indiana_Jones]

Doesnt explain why this force was used in such cases as weilding a golf club though.

Could of been one of those golf club guns!

But in all seriousness, if someone was coming at me with a golf club and I had a gun in my hands I'd be pulling the trigger....and miss if I happen to be holding MN lol

-Indy

[The Pastor]

Could of been one of those golf club guns!

But in all seriousness, if someone was coming at me with a golf club and I had a gun in my hands I'd be pulling the trigger....and miss if I happen to be holding MN lol

-Indy

a poor shooter blames his rifle,

but a poor shooter cant afford a good rifle.

[unstuck]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/ETeuhelQCdE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Some nice shooters on this vid.:Punk:

[sAsLEX]

It is also how some of the shootings by police officers have been explained. They believed there was a firearm involved therefore they were correct in responding with reasonable force. Doesnt explain why this force was used in such cases as weilding a golf club though.

Golf club is a pretty potent weapon, one hit to the head and your dead.

What other choice did the cop have?

Asp baton? More reach with the club.
Pepper spray? Ineffective arguably.
Taser? Nope.

Here is my top tip to avoid being shot by a cop. Don't be a criminal. Easy.

[Indiana_Jones]

a poor shooter blames his rifle,

but a poor shooter cant afford a good rifle.

I see what you did there lol

-Indy

[The Pastor]

Here is my top tip to avoid being shot by a cop. Don't be a criminal. Easy.

did you see the above video?

[scumdog]

Doesnt explain why this force was used in such cases as weilding a golf club though.

So said golf-club wielder whack you - now he has his golf-club AND your gun.

It's a no-brainer.

And no, aiming for a leg/arm etc of somebody running at you with a golf-club is not a feasable option:facepalm::rolleyes:

[Akzle]

And no, aiming for a leg/arm etc of somebody running at you with a golf-club is not a feasable option:facepalm::rolleyes:
yeah.... if you don't want to be shot by police don't be a criminal. or a courier driver.
or.
just.
if you see police with guns, move quickly away. don't run. they'd probably shoot you in the back.

the police aren't even taught to shoot for centre mass. i'm not entirely sure what they're taught with their 60 bullets a year. not good shooting, for sure.

but remember that guy who was stabbing people.. got shot in the arm and the hand. that's poor shooting right there. infact if they'd tasered him properly they wouldn't have had to pull pistol.

that is the one section of the arms i act i was referencing previously, however it relies on presenting something that can be misconstrued as a viable firearm, not just "saying" so.

[scumdog]

yeah.... if you don't want to be shot by police don't be a criminal. or a courier driver.
or.
just.
if you see police with guns, move quickly away. don't run. they'd probably shoot you in the back.

the police aren't even taught to shoot for centre mass. i'm not entirely sure what they're taught with their 60 bullets a year. not good shooting, for sure.





Shoot people that are running away in the back..not taught to shoot for 'centre mass'...60 bullets a year... tell me more... <_<

[Akzle]

Shoot people that are running away in the back..not taught to shoot for 'centre mass'...60 bullets a year... tell me more... <_<whaddaya want to know?

2+2 is 4
and the oven is hot. no touchy.
you can't put a square peg into a round hole.
you can lead a horse to water but you can't have sex with it...

[Scuba_Steve]

you can lead a horse to water but you can't have sex with it...

There are videos out there which suggest otherwise :blink:

[jono035]

I leave the country for 2 weeks and this place turns into a circus... hilarious...

Spent a week in Switzerland. Oddly, they are restricting ownership of handguns, but most households still have the good old SG550 in the closet.

My AR upper got put in the mail today with the big FO silencer mounted. Can't wait to see it.

Also picked up a bunch of tools etc. for it (action blocks, combo peg wrench for the barrel nut) while I was in the states, as well as a decent scope mount, new earmuffs, chrony and a bunch of reloading bits and bobs for the .300 Blackout. All set to start having some fun with it!

I've also got a spare ejection port cover that I'm going to stick into a laser cutter and engrave. Thinking NSA logo, currently...

Merde: Glad you finally got to burn some of that powder. 2" at 100 yards isn't bad for a first outing with irons, no matter how fancy!

[Fast Eddie]

263194263195263196


Thanks to Mr Merde I got a good contact to buy both blanks and live rounds for my little pistol. At the moment just trying to find out local laws and whether I would actually be able to buys some rounds (live hopefully) and recieve them in nz ex USA.. worried about siezure at customs etc. I dont know anyone with a gun license and I don't have one myself.. anyway hoping to get some rounds soon but at near 100 NZ bucks for 24 I wanna make sure they wont get seized hehe.

A little info from the people that sell the rounds in the states I think, copied and pasted from email - about my little pistol...

"... It looks to me like you have what is called a Berloque single-shot Pistol.

They are smaller, more powerful, and much more durable than other 2mm Pinfires (i.e. Xythos Revolvers, as the revolving mechanism gives out over time, which forces you to hold the hammer down to shoot.) The Berloque is also capable of firing three different types of ammo-blanks, round-nose magnums, and flat-nose wadcutters.

It is possible that there is no threading on your pistol. Berloques were made both with and without. Without the threading, you aren't able to attach a flare adapter for firing flares. Too bad!

You were lucky to come across this item. It is considered an antique and is very valuable!"

id love to learn more about it, it has no brand names or anything on it though just the stamped word Germany.

[jono035]

Thanks to Mr Merde I got a good contact to buy both blanks and live rounds for my little pistol. At the moment just trying to find out local laws and whether I would actually be able to buys some rounds (live hopefully) and recieve them in nz ex USA.. worried about siezure at customs etc. I dont know anyone with a gun license and I don't have one myself.. anyway hoping to get some rounds soon but at near 100 NZ bucks for 24 I wanna make sure they wont get seized hehe.

A little info from the people that sell the rounds in the states I think, copied and pasted from email - about my little pistol...

"... It looks to me like you have what is called a Berloque single-shot Pistol.

They are smaller, more powerful, and much more durable than other 2mm Pinfires (i.e. Xythos Revolvers, as the revolving mechanism gives out over time, which forces you to hold the hammer down to shoot.) The Berloque is also capable of firing three different types of ammo-blanks, round-nose magnums, and flat-nose wadcutters.

It is possible that there is no threading on your pistol. Berloques were made both with and without. Without the threading, you aren't able to attach a flare adapter for firing flares. Too bad!

You were lucky to come across this item. It is considered an antique and is very valuable!"

id love to learn more about it, it has no brand names or anything on it though just the stamped word Germany.

If you need someone with a FAL to import it, then you'll also need a permit to import. If that's the case, then anyone supplying the ammunition to you would probably be breaking the law.

If the pistol and rounds aren't considered firearms/ammunition under the Arms Act then you should be fine. Any ideas?

[Akzle]

permit to procure - at your copshop ask for a POL67C form.
ammunition may require another form the LE 2/1...

...i forget these things on tuesdays.

[jono035]

permit to procure - at your copshop ask for a POL67C form.
ammunition may require another form the LE 2/1...

...i forget these things on tuesdays.

POL67C is the application for a Permit to Procure and only applies to restricted firearms.

Not sure which form LE 2/1 is, but he needs an import permit.

[Winston001]

Did you read what you quoted?

DOH! Not properly. My bad and my apologies to Monsieur Le Scheisse. :D

[Winston001]

what 'law' are you referring to?

hint: quote the "Act" and "section" of New Zealand Legislation, that backs up what you're saying..

Steve's already covered this so just to add that much of the law is not written in parliamentary statutes. The words used in Acts are generalised so they are interpreted by the courts as time passes. To be technical, a crime consists of two elements - actus reas and mens rea neither of which are described by statute. They've already been defined by centuries of precedent.



yeah.... if you don't want to be shot by police don't be a criminal. or a courier driver...


but remember that guy who was stabbing people.. got shot in the arm and the hand. that's poor shooting right there. infact if they'd tasered him properly they wouldn't have had to pull pistol.




Actually I agree. Our armed police are possibly not trained to the level you'd expect but how do we cure that? Confidence and marksmanship can only be achieved by training and constant practice. In a nation where armed incidents are uncommon it wouldn't be easy to keep these guys in a high state of readiness. Or I could be wrong, just my take on it after talking to an AO instructor.

[Swoop]

My AR upper got put in the mail today with the big FO silencer mounted.
Silly question...
Suppressor made in NZ?
Who by and how much?

I have to get mine done and have been quoted around $500.:confused:

[jono035]

Silly question...
Suppressor made in NZ?
Who by and how much?

I have to get mine done and have been quoted around $500.:confused:

Not silly at all. I looked into all this back when I was considering my suppressed .303 project and I remember being surprised by how expensive it was.

I'm getting mine through Gunworks in Christchurch, $515 incl. That, for me, included freight in both directions (including organising pickup straight from my house), shortening the barrel, rethreading and recrowning, mounting the new foreend and then making the custom suppressor to match the diameter of the foreend, length of free barrel and my desired overall length.

They're an easy bunch to deal with. Robbie from Gunworks is a nice guy and very interesting to talk to. I probably spent a total of about half an hour talking to him about this project and suggestions for projectiles and powder for loading suppressed .30cal rounds.

I guess the price is up there, but it's ultimately a custom suppressor. It cost me $80 last time I had a barrel shortened, crowned and threaded (through Sportways Gunshed) so if you need that part of the service done, it saves a bit doing it together.

I just checked Gun City and they start around $500 for just the suppressor. There is a warning on the Gunworks website about low quality imported suppressors that are made to look like theirs. Closer inspection of the photos they provide make me think they're the Gun City ones.

I know where I'd spend my money. I was quoted $500 from Serious Shooters as well, but I'm pretty sure that was for a Gunworks suppressor.

It should be back on Monday, so I'll get some photos up then.

Edit: Just re-read what I've written, I'm not on their payroll, but wouldn't say no to a discount on my next one ;)

[Swoop]

It should be back on Monday, so I'll get some photos up then.
Will look forward to seeing them!

I enquired with a few shops around town and SAI appear to go through MAE.
Reloaders have a gunsmith on retainer, as far as I can tell, but will not reveal who.
Goon City's cans appear "one size fits all" which is far from the truth with engineering tolerances and performance!

Robbie certainly has a good history behind him.

[Akzle]

Silly question...
Suppressor made in NZ?
have an ask at rev rog (sub silent supressors - te atatu)
scott traill maybe?
other wise gunworks are the most famous.

[Akzle]

Steve's already covered this so just to add that much of the law is not written in parliamentary statutes. The words used in Acts are generalised so they are interpreted by the courts as time passes. To be technical, a crime consists of two elements - actus reas and mens rea neither of which are described by statute. They've already been defined by centuries of precedent. wrong wrong and wrong. what you refer to is a) case law and b) legislation.
the oldest actual law in existence is the magna carta, which was forced on some king or other by the people in the thirteenth century (and is still in force in NZ via the imperial application act) this of course only matters if you accept the jurisdiction/lawfulness of the NZ govt (they're actually defacto, and illegal)

mens rea is established in NZ courts when they ask if you understand the charges. that actually means, if you look closely, that you stand under the charge. fuck that.
and i think it's the crimes act that states "ignorance of the law is no excuse" -- so i don't think i'm comitting a crime when riding at 160km/h, but the NZ govt and their policy enforceres would say otherwise, but if i'm not standing under their charge, then am i guilty of a crime for doing so?

no mens rea, but an infringement against their legislation that they notice

woah.. huh. tricky shit ehh.
it's all semantics and it's all the game they play and it's all bullshit.

Actually I agree. Our armed police are possibly not trained to the level you'd expect but how do we cure that? Confidence and marksmanship can only be achieved by training and constant practice. In a nation where armed incidents are uncommon it wouldn't be easy to keep these guys in a high state of readiness. Or I could be wrong, just my take on it after talking to an AO instructor.the average pistol shooter needs to put about 2400 rounds downrange to keep their licence, compared with the cops' 60 that is fucking pitiful.
i do NOT believe they should be armed as a mater of routine, i don't believe we have the crime to justify it and i can GUARANTEE that more people will be shot, guilty, innocent, civilian or police, now that they are. i do not believe anyone should have more rights than anyone else just for putting on a gang patch, whether it's black leather or blue vest.
the AOS is a separate entity from the beat police. i think they've shot dead (humanely executed) 17 odd criminals in the last couple of decades, compared with all the botched incidents with regular cops and guns. (foot shootings, jaghn molenaar, courier drivers etc etc)

[jono035]

Pistol shooters need to attend 12 shoots per year to keep their license. There is no requirement for number of rounds fired.

[Akzle]

Pistol shooters need to attend 12 shoots per year to keep their license. There is no requirement for number of rounds fired.
yes. and you're rightly. you're able to turn up at all 12 and not fire any rounds at all. but the average number of rounds fired at a shoot is 150-300+ depending on if you're shooting steels, service, IPSC, ISSF or NRA (did i miss any?)
it is my understanding that the armed police do not face this requirement. and in fact, their budget only allows for 60 odd rounds a year.

[jono035]

yes. and you're rightly. you're able to turn up at all 12 and not fire any rounds at all. but the average number of rounds fired at a shoot is 150-300+ depending on if you're shooting steels, service, IPSC, ISSF or NRA (did i miss any?)
it is my understanding that the armed police do not face this requirement. and in fact, their budget only allows for 60 odd rounds a year.

Woulda been easier to say that up front.

[Akzle]

Woulda been easier to say that up front.
no it wouldn't...

that's a whole extra paragraph, and it detracts from my hyperbolie and the point that the police are highly undertrained.

[scumdog]

no it wouldn't...

that's a whole extra paragraph, and it detracts from my hyperbolie and the point that the police are highly undertrained.

hyperbole:msn-wink:

[carver]

So how did I spend the weekend?

100 rounds of 38-55 from my Marlin 336 CB and its MVA rear post sight.

Grouping 2" at 100 yards and making tin cans dance.

Bit more work to do to get the ragged hole we all lust after ;-)

50 rounds of 32-40 Black Powder (the Holy Black). Aftwer slugging the barrel I found the bore to be .323. I previously was loading .321 bullets. Bought a new mould castin .324 bullets. Gone from an 18" group at 100 meters to a 3" group at 100 meters. More work to do on my reloads but I have mede a start.

Both Marlins behaved flawlessly.\

Guns put away and with 80% of a large bottle of rum shared between the three of I I was taken home in a very merry state. Good shooting, good company, lots of swapping BS. Happier than I have been for a long time.

Chris

i had a 336 cs, and it was shit!

[The Pastor]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jfdEbe7e9GE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Sometimes i wish i lived in texas.

[Swoop]

It should be back on Monday, so I'll get some photos up then.
... and a little boy waits...:whistle:

[jono035]

... and a little boy waits...:whistle:

Only got it back this afternoon after Fastways dicked me around a bit.

Reassembled the rifle, still need to modify the gas tube to fit under the short foreend.

The suppressor looks beautiful though, really well made. The surface finish is perfect, the knurling is deep and clean, all the edges are rounded and smooth. It's lighter than expected, but still feels pretty solid.

The threading on the barrel and suppressor fit perfectly. There is absolutely no sideways play in the threads and it snugs up on the barrel smoothly.

Long story short, I'm pretty pleased. Haven't fired it yet, of course, but looking forward to hopefully taking a crack with it this weekend.

So yeah, pretty damn impressed with the result.

264270264271264266264267264268264269

[The Pastor]

Only got it back this afternoon after Fastways dicked me around a bit.

Reassembled the rifle, still need to modify the gas tube to fit under the short foreend.

The suppressor looks beautiful though, really well made. The surface finish is perfect, the knurling is deep and clean, all the edges are rounded and smooth. It's lighter than expected, but still feels pretty solid.

The threading on the barrel and suppressor fit perfectly. There is absolutely no sideways play in the threads and it snugs up on the barrel smoothly.

Long story short, I'm pretty pleased. Haven't fired it yet, of course, but looking forward to hopefully taking a crack with it this weekend.

So yeah, pretty damn impressed with the result.

264270264271264266264267264268264269


at least you'll fit in at the range......

[jono035]

at least you'll fit in at the range......

Meaning? :P

[The Pastor]

Meaning? :P

well its an auckland range, with auckland shooters :-D na im just kiddin, sweet looking rifle mate, cant want to see it in action!

[jono035]

well its an auckland range, with auckland shooters :-D na im just kiddin, sweet looking rifle mate, cant want to see it in action!

True enough :D I like to think of myself as not an Aucklander but I've been here long enough that it has probably seeped in around the edges.

[The Pastor]

True enough :D I like to think of myself as not an Aucklander but I've been here long enough that it has probably seeped in around the edges.

its going to put my 3030 to shame with its iron sights...

[jono035]

its going to put my 3030 to shame with its iron sights...

The 30-30 will still have more range on it, though, given that I'm mostly going to be shooting subs through it. I've got a box of supers to test it with, too. Need to consider what I'm going to use for a hunting round...

[The Pastor]

The 30-30 will still have more range on it, though, given that I'm mostly going to be shooting subs through it. I've got a box of supers to test it with, too. Need to consider what I'm going to use for a hunting round...

subsonics and this rifle would make a great poacher.

[Akzle]

noice.

sorry, i haven't followed this whole thread...
who did the suppressor in the end? is it a fully barrel isolated one?
and is it the standard 5.56 upper?

cool toy.

[Indiana_Jones]

Nice looking piece of equipment there jono :)

-Indy

[jono035]

noice.

sorry, i haven't followed this whole thread...
who did the suppressor in the end? is it a fully barrel isolated one?
and is it the standard 5.56 upper?

cool toy.

Gunworks did the suppressor as well as shortening the barrel and re-threading/re-crowning. The suppressor is completely sleeved where it goes over the barrel.

The upper is in 300 blackout, which is basically the same as .300 whisper. It's a .223 case with the neck pushed back and expanded so that it takes a .30 cal bullet and still fits in a standard .223 magazine.

[jono035]

Nice looking piece of equipment there jono :)

-Indy

Cheers! Should bring one of the MNs out to the range, show up RM's aim...

[Swoop]

31May, 2012: Just before Memorial Day (May 28) and without any warning, the U.S. Army ordered its troops to only use the army designed aluminium rifle magazines. This came as a surprise to combat troops, who for years have preferred polymer magazines designed and manufactured outside the army supply system. So popular have these polymer magazines been that the army allows them to be bought through the army supply system, using government funds, if a unit commanders wants them. Most infantry commanders, and their troops, prefer the polymer magazines. This includes SOCOM (Special Operations Command) troops, including the Ranger Regiment.
One of the major polymer magazine producers, the American firm Magpul, also produces larger magazines as well. Two years ago, for example, they came out with a 40 round magazine for M-16 compatible 5.56mm assault rifles. The standard army issue magazine holds 30 rounds. The US$23 polymer magazine has a larger transparent window strip to show how many rounds you have left.

After years of being shown up by superior M-16 magazines from commercial firms, the U.S. Army began issuing an improved magazine of their own two years ago. By the end of 2010, over half a million of the new magazines had been issued, mostly to troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, and those headed there. The older army issue magazines were turned and discarded, and replaced by the new model. The new magazine is mainly designed to prevent jams when the round comes up from the magazine and into the firing chamber. This is accomplished with a new follower (a tab at the top of the magazine) design, as well as a new, corrosion resistant, spring. The army was apparently upset that their new and improved design was ignored by most troops, who preferred the civilian (usually Magpul) polymer magazines. The army tried to buy the Magpul patents, but Magpul wasn't selling. The army won't explain itself and the troops accuse the army procurement bureaucrats of playing games with the lives of soldiers in combat.

The new army magazine design was still inferior to most commercial designs, which are built mainly to keep the crud out. A big problem with the M-16 type rifle is that the fine sand and dust found in Iraq and Afghanistan can slip past the magazine and into the magazine and lead to a malfunction. Commercial firms have come out with several generations of magazines that try to seal the magazine well to keep the talcum powder like dust out of the rifle. For example, there is the Advanced Reliability Combat magazine, that includes a soft gasket that creates a dust proof seal when the magazine is inserted in an M-4, or similar weapon (like the SOCOM SCAR). These magazines cost $30 each (about 70 percent more than a standard magazine.) These high end magazines also, like the new army magazine, have better springs and a follower that minimizes jams. Troops will still buy commercial magazines, with their own money, just to be on the safe side. The army has now ordered that sort of thing to cease.

Combat troops and their commanders are now contacting Congress about the polymer magazine, which the army has, so far, refused to answer questions about. If Congress demands answers, the procurement bureaucrats will have to answer, under oath. These guys can blow off the troops, but Congress is another matter.

[The Pastor]

Cheers! Should bring one of the MNs out to the range, show up RM's aim...

we all know my aims pretty average, but it all comes down to practice aye.

[jono035]

we all know my aims pretty average, but it all comes down to practice aye.

I dunno, was actually thinking that having Indy along would make me feel better about my aim :D

[Flip]

Well I have just had a win.

A few years ago I purchased a 17HMR Excell arms s/s ball pup semi from Hunting and Fishing in Wellington and it came with a life time warranty. The firing pin broke so I took it into H+F Christchurch who first said I had to take it to the Wellington shop (I was living in Chch at the time) and then said they were not honoring the warranty because the importer was not importing them anymore (17HMR semi problem with cases seperating). I left the rifle with them and thought what a rip off and waste of $2.5K and forgot all about it.

Now this Excell 17hmr semi is brillant, accurate, fast, easy to carry and I have never had any of the reported 17HMR problems with it and I have easily put a couple of thousand rounds through it.

18 months latter H+F sent me one of those junk emails with their Facebook page attached. So early this morning I asked them to put this right before I take it further. They called me back 2 hours latter saying they will see what they can do.

Go Facebook, is all I can say!

[sAsLEX]

Well I have just had a win.

A few years ago I purchased a 17HMR Excell arms s/s ball pup semi from Hunting and Fishing in Wellington and it came with a life time warranty. The firing pin broke so I took it into H+F Christchurch who first said I had to take it to the Wellington shop (I was living in Chch at the time) and then said they were not honoring the warranty because the importer was not importing them anymore (17HMR semi problem with cases seperating). I left the rifle with them and thought what a rip off and waste of $2.5K and forgot all about it.

Now this Excell 17hmr semi is brillant, accurate, fast, easy to carry and I have never had any of the reported 17HMR problems with it and I have easily put a couple of thousand rounds through it.

18 months latter H+F sent me one of those junk emails with their Facebook page attached. So early this morning I asked them to put this right before I take it further. They called me back 2 hours latter saying they will see what they can do.

Go Facebook, is all I can say!

Thats pretty poor about the different store thing.

I use Noel Leamings a bit as I can purchase anywhere in the country and pick up at a different store, and they all cover each other.

Keep us informed, been thinking a 17HMR would be nice in the cupboard.

[Monsterbishi]

Keep us informed, been thinking a 17HMR would be nice in the cupboard.

.17hmr's are great as long as you aren't fussed about how expensive the ammo is, or try to hunt anything larger than a goat - oh yeah, and definately get a suppressor!

[Indiana_Jones]

I dunno, was actually thinking that having Indy along would make me feel better about my aim :D

You're a good bloke Jono lol

-Indy

[jono035]

The AR got her first outing today and performed pretty well.

Grouped 6 shots at about 4" at 100m, largely due to my own incompetence, a very unstable shooting technique (see video below) and a scope with eye relief that was really awkward for shooting prone. At 25m when sighting in off a wooden bench, 3 shots were just a ragged hole.

The Remington factory subs weren't cycling the action with the suppressor (even with the pistol length gas system and huge gas port) so some trickiness may be required there. I'm sure playing with some different speed powders and Quickload I'll be able to find a good combo that allows for some decent pressure at the gas port, though. I don't want to use a lighter buffer spring because I'd ideally like to keep it usable with supers.

http://youtu.be/hEo82kPXAwE Subsonics Suppressed
http://youtu.be/D-6GYrHTsaw Supersonics Suppressed

[carver]

The AR got her first outing today and performed pretty well.

Grouped 6 shots at about 4" at 100m, largely due to my own incompetence, a very unstable shooting technique (see video below) and a scope with eye relief that was really awkward for shooting prone. At 25m when sighting in off a wooden bench, 3 shots were just a ragged hole.

The Remington factory subs weren't cycling the action with the suppressor (even with the pistol length gas system and huge gas port) so some trickiness may be required there. I'm sure playing with some different speed powders and Quickload I'll be able to find a good combo that allows for some decent pressure at the gas port, though. I don't want to use a lighter buffer spring because I'd ideally like to keep it usable with supers.

http://youtu.be/hEo82kPXAwE Subsonics Suppressed
http://youtu.be/D-6GYrHTsaw Supersonics Suppressed

is all Remington ammo shit?

[jono035]

is all Remington ammo shit?

Dunno. The subs were leaving a bit of unburned powder, so it could be that they were loaded to be subsonic in a longer barrel with carbine length gas.

Other than not cycling the action, it shot well enough.

[Akzle]

is all Remington ammo shit?no.
ammo choice is highly subjective. different strokes for diffrent folks and all that.
some guns will shoot some ammo well and others not at all, even two of the same model side by side will perform diffrently, not to mention the variation in batches (getting much better with brand ammo)
factory sub loads are usually pretty consistent with production rifles, remove barrel length and use wildcat cartridges and there will be a good lot of trial and error, it's not unknown for bullets to actually stop in the barrel. there was a good article in Guns N Huntin a while back about sorting out sub loads (particularly as game loads).

i've read a bit about the 300 whisper (mainly because reloading .224 bullets is PITA) and i quite liked the idea...
i'm guessing they're seated to a comparable OAL, and the gas port is a ways forward of the chamber...

oh the puzzlement.
have a read through 6mmbr.com, a lot of ar15 tubeguns.. they know things and might have advice on the cycling issue.
(although they're more into putting lots of bullets into small spaces at a mile than wildcattery)

[jono035]

There are plenty of subsonic/suppressed resources available for the AR platform, so I'm sure I'll be fine.

[Indiana_Jones]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/7062413/Australian-swimmers-apologise-for-gun-photos

My God, they have guns! :facepalm:

-Indy

[The Pastor]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/7062413/Australian-swimmers-apologise-for-gun-photos

My God, they have guns! :facepalm:

-Indy


Shit man, they could kill somebody

[jono035]

"Monk, who took them off his Facebook page, also apologised.

"I deeply am sorry and I'm sorry if I offended anyone out there," he told reporters. "

I'm offended they took the photos off their Facebook page. I'm also offended that people were offended by those photos.

Come to think about it, I'm also offended that they have their fingers in the trigger guards and the guy on the left looks like he's about to shoot himself in the face...

[Akzle]

"Monk, who took them off his Facebook page, also apologised.

"I deeply am sorry and I'm sorry if I offended anyone out there," he told reporters. "

I'm offended they took the photos off their Facebook page. I'm also offended that people were offended by those photos.

Come to think about it, I'm also offended that they have their fingers in the trigger guards and the guy on the left looks like he's about to shoot himself in the face...
+1

the fingers on triggers was the first thing i noticed., but hang on these guys have 'priors'... woah nelly.

just goes to show.. if the homos whinge loud an long enough they can get things done...

[scumdog]

"Monk, who took them off his Facebook page, also apologised.

"I deeply am sorry and I'm sorry if I offended anyone out there," he told reporters. "

I'm offended they took the photos off their Facebook page. I'm also offended that people were offended by those photos.

Come to think about it, I'm also offended that they have their fingers in the trigger guards and the guy on the left looks like he's about to shoot himself in the face...

Well that's what happens when people are raised in a country where owning a gun is actively discouraged/frowned upon...when they DO get hold of a gun it's 'like a kid in a lolly shop' scene.

Still not sure why they felt they needed to remove that pic - oh wait they're from Aussie, right? the 'no auto/pump actions allowed' country.

[Monsterbishi]

Well that's what happens when people are raised in a country where owning a gun is actively discouraged/frowned upon...when they DO get hold of a gun it's 'like a kid in a lolly shop' scene.

It's a common enough sight with my kids friends, they go beserk at anything remotely gun-like whilst mine are doing the opposite. Sure, my two both love quality trigger time, but to them, toy gun play is more about setting up targets or shooting a imaginary bear for the imaginary freezer!

[scumdog]

It's a common enough sight with my kids friends, they go beserk at anything remotely gun-like whilst mine are doing the opposite. Sure, my two both love quality trigger time, but to them, toy gun play is more about setting up targets or shooting a imaginary bear for the imaginary freezer!

Yup, my ex had some hippy/pacifist type friends, didn't believe in guns or hunting, when they brought their kids to our place their kids went ballistic when they saw my kids toy guns, bloody near drooling and couldn't wait to get their hands on the toy guns - and as many of them as they could pick up at once.

My kids?

Just as keen on their Lego etc as they were on their toy guns.

Only rule I had: 'No pointing guns at humans', my boys were good with that.

[sAsLEX]

What was the $1 gun this time around?

[Mr Merde]

Off Topic.

Today I accepted redundancy from the Auckland Council rather than have to commute into the CBD.

Looking for work now.

Got enough payout comming to keep me covered for about 18 weeks.

Really should do some retail therapy to cheer me up.

What gun do i want?

Always fancied a 10\22 or a Sig Mosquito (used to shoot a 226 back in the day).

Life goes on

Chris

[jono035]

Off Topic.

Today I accepted redundancy from the Auckland Council rather than have to commute into the CBD.

Looking for work now.

Got enough payout comming to keep me covered for about 18 weeks.

Really should do some retail therapy to cheer me up.

What gun do i want?

Always fancied a 10\22 or a Sig Mosquito (used to shoot a 226 back in the day).

Life goes on

Chris

The 10/22 is a shitload of fun. From memory there was a guy at the range with a mosquito a couple of years back, wasn't all that accurate for a .22lr pistol...

[sAsLEX]

Off Topic.

Today I accepted redundancy from the Auckland Council rather than have to commute into the CBD.

Looking for work now.

Got enough payout comming to keep me covered for about 18 weeks.

Really should do some retail therapy to cheer me up.

What gun do i want?

Always fancied a 10\22 or a Sig Mosquito (used to shoot a 226 back in the day).

Life goes on

Chris

10/22 oh so much fun! or get a .22 kit for a 220/6?

Shame about the job, best of luck finding the next one soon!

[Mr Merde]

Alex,

You seen todays papers?

"Australia offers NZ soldiers $250,000 to swap armies"

Aussie Navy is also recruiting.

1/4 mil bonus and Aussie citizenship in 3 months.

Better paid, better equiped, better respected forces than here in NZ.

If I was your age and in the forces I would be very interested

[Flip]

Bugger.

That looks like a sweet deal. If I was only 25 years younger I would be off.

P_

[Flip]

Thats pretty poor about the different store thing.

I use Noel Leamings a bit as I can purchase anywhere in the country and pick up at a different store, and they all cover each other.

Keep us informed, been thinking a 17HMR would be nice in the cupboard.

Well I got the gun back but I had to pay for the repair. It wasn't much money and they did do it at cost but IMHO the shop won't honor a lifetime waranty if the importer stops importing that particular rifle.

I'm glad to have it back actually because I have about 2 bricks of 17HMR that I needs to be thrown at rabbits around here.

[jono035]

Well I got the gun back but I had to pay for the repair. It wasn't much money and they did do it at cost but IMHO the shop won't honor a lifetime waranty if the importer stops importing that particular rifle.

I'm glad to have it back actually because I have about 2 bricks of 17HMR that I needs to be thrown at rabbits around here.

Nice looking little rifle. Looks quite compact as a bullpup.

[carburator]

Off Topic.

Today I accepted redundancy from the Auckland Council rather than have to commute into the CBD.

Looking for work now.

Got enough payout comming to keep me covered for about 18 weeks.

Really should do some retail therapy to cheer me up.

What gun do i want?

Always fancied a 10\22 or a Sig Mosquito (used to shoot a 226 back in the day).

Life goes on

Chris

I have floating around in the safe ( its not a little one a heavy barrelled 10/22 with the last of the all alloy receivers
( yes the new lowers are plastic ) got voltargen trigger kit in it ( basic hammer and spring ) modded the back of the bolt
so it does'nt slap the hell out of the hammer ..

with one of the top indoor .22 shooters driving its all ten rounds in the same hole prone @25 me its a bit of a ragged hole..

i have a stainless ranch version with a MAE .22WMR Can on it for pest control, its knocked a lot of pest's over in the orchards..

if the .17hmr route, I have a heavy barrelled H&R with a MAE supressor on it... deadly on rabbits, magpies and ferals..
its topped of with a bushnell fullfeild balistix 2 scope which either pot luck or pure cunning on someones part is the
right hold over points for the .17hmr ( the magazine write up couple of years back on the same setup in a hunting and fishing )

[Mr Merde]

I have floating around in the safe ( its not a little one a heavy barrelled 10/22 with the last of the all alloy receivers
( yes the new lowers are plastic ) got voltargen trigger kit in it ( basic hammer and spring ) modded the back of the bolt
so it does'nt slap the hell out of the hammer ..

with one of the top indoor .22 shooters driving its all ten rounds in the same hole prone @25 me its a bit of a ragged hole..

i have a stainless ranch version with a MAE .22WMR Can on it for pest control, its knocked a lot of pest's over in the orchards..

if the .17hmr route, I have a heavy barrelled H&R with a MAE supressor on it... deadly on rabbits, magpies and ferals..
its topped of with a bushnell fullfeild balistix 2 scope which either pot luck or pure cunning on someones part is the
right hold over points for the .17hmr ( the magazine write up couple of years back on the same setup in a hunting and fishing )

A nice collection.

I will be looking for two 10\22's. The first an older one with the wood furniture. This I want to play around with. Shorten the barrel, new furniture, add on parts for reliability and looks, find out how the thing works, build a new trigger group for it ( have had the plans for this for 15 years now). Get collectors licence and turn this into a rock and roll machine.

The second I want to get will be one built up for reliability, lightness, quietness, and ease of use.

Thinking more about the pistol side also. A nice .22 plinker to have some fun with. Preferably suppressed. My old ears have too much damage done already. Hence the Sig Mosquito as it can come with a threaded barrel. Sig also do some 9mm and .45 threaded firearms. Mmmm a suppressed .45. Shame I cant use such for possums and bunnies.

Chris

[carburator]

A nice collection.

I will be looking for two 10\22's. The first an older one with the wood furniture. This I want to play around with. Shorten the barrel, new furniture, add on parts for reliability and looks, find out how the thing works, build a new trigger group for it ( have had the plans for this for 15 years now). Get collectors licence and turn this into a rock and roll machine.

The second I want to get will be one built up for reliability, lightness, quietness, and ease of use.

Thinking more about the pistol side also. A nice .22 plinker to have some fun with. Preferably suppressed. My old ears have too much damage done already. Hence the Sig Mosquito as it can come with a threaded barrel. Sig also do some 9mm and .45 threaded firearms. Mmmm a suppressed .45. Shame I cant use such for possums and bunnies.

Chris

The interesting thing with the ruger importer is they will sell you just about anything ( liscence permitting ) execpt a upper..
hence the market in NZ for uppers on trademe as the accuracy of a ruger is dependant on the fitment of the barrel to
the upper ( like most guns )

tradme is evil lots of nice bits on there , complete timmy trigger yum...

The basic trigger group for the ruger is basic however the number of home job trigger lightenings ive seen where they have
screwed up the angle on the hammer ( and it does'nt take much ) turns them into a one click wounder.. hence a trip to
SAE and about $100 later you have the goodies..

as to the rock and roll, the most complex yet reliable one is the drop in trigger group. acess to a machineshop is required
or a lot of patence with a file ( and those on here that had to do the filing exercises during military training know what i mean )

just recently relaesed, is the biatalon (SP) action, http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/rifles/auction-482454717.htm
for stealth in the orchard this would be the bee's knees as the bulk of noise in a semi ruger action is bolt slap on opening
since it is a blow back design fitting a rubber boltstop is ok, they do shit themselves i have machined a plastic one its lasted
but for servicing pain in the ass to push out..

[jono035]

A nice collection.

I will be looking for two 10\22's. The first an older one with the wood furniture. This I want to play around with. Shorten the barrel, new furniture, add on parts for reliability and looks, find out how the thing works, build a new trigger group for it ( have had the plans for this for 15 years now). Get collectors licence and turn this into a rock and roll machine.

The second I want to get will be one built up for reliability, lightness, quietness, and ease of use.

Thinking more about the pistol side also. A nice .22 plinker to have some fun with. Preferably suppressed. My old ears have too much damage done already. Hence the Sig Mosquito as it can come with a threaded barrel. Sig also do some 9mm and .45 threaded firearms. Mmmm a suppressed .45. Shame I cant use such for possums and bunnies.

Chris

Don't forget that .22 Vostok and suppressor of yours that is sitting in my safe at the moment. Slightly smaller suppressor so you can still use the irons or just strap an aimpoint to the suppressor itself.

Taking that shooting tonight, actually.

[sAsLEX]

Alex,

You seen todays papers?

"Australia offers NZ soldiers $250,000 to swap armies"

Aussie Navy is also recruiting.

1/4 mil bonus and Aussie citizenship in 3 months.

Better paid, better equiped, better respected forces than here in NZ.

If I was your age and in the forces I would be very interested

I don't really want to be an Aussie citizen, gun for hire on the other hand......

Got some things on the burner here that if the dice fall my way mean it is worth staying. If there is anyone left!

[Mr Merde]

Don't forget that .22 Vostok and suppressor of yours that is sitting in my safe at the moment. Slightly smaller suppressor so you can still use the irons or just strap an aimpoint to the suppressor itself.

Taking that shooting tonight, actually.

I havent forgotten it.

Need new toys.

Now have 4 British Bulldog pistols. 1 in Wellywood and 3 being held for me in the USA

Wellywood has a .32 S&W 6 shot
In US I havwe 2x .38 S&W and 1x .44 Webley, all 5 shot revolvers.

All of these have 2 1/2 inch barrels with birds head grips.

All need work to get them functioning and all need re plating with nickel to bring back their tolerances.

Total cost so far is under $400 NZ

When redundancy money comes in I will get a good e-cat safe and push the C cat licence application.

Chris

[Mr Merde]

I don't really want to be an Aussie citizen, gun for hire on the other hand......

Got some things on the burner here that if the dice fall my way mean it is worth staying. If there is anyone left!

You not pushing to be Admiral of the Fleet are you?

If you need help Bruce Pepperil was an old class mate mine. I can always contact him and discuss your career.



Chris

[Mr Merde]

"The Gun Is Civilization" by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.
In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.
When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.
The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunken guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.
There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for an [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.
People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.
Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.
People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.
The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable. When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)"

I can see the logic in this letter but how do we convince the powers that rule us?

Chris

[The Pastor]

Short Notice i know,

but anyone want to come of a hunt this weekend? its $250 and includes food accom and 1 deer, any extra deer you shoot are $100/ea

[Akzle]

Short Notice i know,

but anyone want to come of a hunt this weekend? its $250 and includes food accom and 1 deer, any extra deer you shoot are $100/eacounter offer: 50$ and a bag of chips..

would that i could. where abouts are you heading anyway?

[jono035]

RM: How did the hunt go?

Just got back in from the UK this morning. Was working on the charger for this:

http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2012/01/lola-drayson-launch-850-hp-fia-formula.html

Good fun. Got to help them spool it up on a dyno (was controlling the throttle!). It's a bit of a weapon, torque limit set at 3000Nm at the rear wheels...

[The Pastor]

RM: How did the hunt go?

Just got back in from the UK this morning. Was working on the charger for this:

http://www.electric-vehiclenews.com/2012/01/lola-drayson-launch-850-hp-fia-formula.html

Good fun. Got to help them spool it up on a dyno (was controlling the throttle!). It's a bit of a weapon, torque limit set at 3000Nm at the rear wheels...

not good mate, deer are either hiding or been shot, only had 1 chance to shoot (late on sunday) and got caught with the safety.

I also wanna get more range time. Might be time to move to taupo.

[jono035]

not good mate, deer are either hiding or been shot, only had 1 chance to shoot (late on sunday) and got caught with the safety.

I also wanna get more range time. Might be time to move to taupo.

Gutted, mate. How did everyone else there do? Similar issues?

I'm definitely keen to get in some more trigger time with the AR. July 22nd is the next 100m CF practice at Riverhead, keen?

[The Pastor]

Gutted, mate. How did everyone else there do? Similar issues?

I'm definitely keen to get in some more trigger time with the AR. July 22nd is the next 100m CF practice at Riverhead, keen?

yep Im keen, I'll Remember to take;

Targets, hearing protection, gun flag.

All of which should be included in the $20 range fee...........

[sAsLEX]

yep Im keen, I'll Remember to take;

Targets, hearing protection, gun flag.

All of which should be included in the $20 range fee...........

gun flag?


One of those empty chamber things?

[jono035]

gun flag?


One of those empty chamber things?

Yeah, we have to use them at CSI. Didn't think they'd be a big issue at deerstalkers, but I guess given that you've got to go forward of the line to change targets it makes things a bit clearer.

[sAsLEX]

Yeah, we have to use them at CSI. Didn't think they'd be a big issue at deerstalkers, but I guess given that you've got to go forward of the line to change targets it makes things a bit clearer.


I am just used to military Range Officers who personally clear all weapons.

[unstuck]

What, you guys have to pay to shoot deer. That sux. We got 2 fallow and a red last weekend and it only cost $20 diesel.Off for a pig this weekend.:headbang:

[jono035]

I am just used to military Range Officers who personally clear all weapons.

Yeah, this way is just a little easier in that the RO doesn't need to actually touch any of the firearms, just make sure barrel flag is in and magazine is out/empty. Much easier than having an RO that can competently handle a wide variety of firearms!

[Swoop]

Yeah, this way is just a little easier in that the RO doesn't need to actually touch any of the firearms, just make sure barrel flag is in and magazine is out/empty. Much easier than having an RO that can competently handle a wide variety of firearms!
A bit strange. Especially at csi since there is no "going forward".

All our firearms get cleared by the RO at the end of the firing detail. If a shooter doesn't place the firearm down correctly (locked open), with empty magazine laying with the top facing the RO, then the RO might wait for said shooter to "sort their shit out" whilst applying some verbal lubricant...

[The Pastor]

What, you guys have to pay to shoot deer. That sux. We got 2 fallow and a red last weekend and it only cost $20 diesel.Off for a pig this weekend.:headbang:

you punk arse motherfucker.:tugger:

I wish it were that easy to go hunting in auckland :(

[caseye]

Yeah, this way is just a little easier in that the RO doesn't need to actually touch any of the firearms, just make sure barrel flag is in and magazine is out/empty. Much easier than having an RO that can competently handle a wide variety of firearms! If you have an R/O who can't competently handle a range of firearms, then please pack up your gear and get the hell out of there before someone does get hurt.

You are kidding? right.
Try putting any sort of flag in the end of my rifles barrel and someone will be walking funny.
I'd never consider that sort of method(having said that, it's been a while) of making sure a rifle is cleared.
The R/O is ultimately responsible for "Making sure" every rifle on the mound/range is cleared and safe no matter who else does what.
Action/bolt open, Empty receiver facing up, mag out,is the norm, as is the R/O individually checking each weapon, anything else is going to fail one day, even the flag up it.

As for hunting in Dorkland, depends where you can go. I can shoot Deer, Pigs, goats etc within half an hour of home in sorf Dorkland.For the expenditure of some walking/quad riding and some strong likor afterwards, all good.

[jono035]

A bit strange. Especially at csi since there is no "going forward".

All our firearms get cleared by the RO at the end of the firing detail. If a shooter doesn't place the firearm down correctly (locked open), with empty magazine laying with the top facing the RO, then the RO might wait for said shooter to "sort their shit out" whilst applying some verbal lubricant...

Yeah, at CSI it's a little weird, but the idea is that, technically, while patching you can have body parts 'forward' of the line.

Also, not all firearms lock open (Margolins are a bastard like that) and it can be surprisingly difficult with things like rotating bolt semis to verify that there are no un-extracted cartridges which could potentially hang-fire or whatever.

Either way, little orange flag for $2 seems like a 'can't go wrong' situation to me.

[The Pastor]

Yeah, at CSI it's a little weird, but the idea is that, technically, while patching you can have body parts 'forward' of the line.

Also, not all firearms lock open (Margolins are a bastard like that) and it can be surprisingly difficult with things like rotating bolt semis to verify that there are no un-extracted cartridges which could potentially hang-fire or whatever.

Either way, little orange flag for $2 seems like a 'can't go wrong' situation to me.

I do like the flags, I just think you should be given one (to borrow) for the $20 range fee....

[jono035]

If you have an R/O who can't competently handle a range of firearms, then please pack up your gear and get the hell out of there before someone does get hurt.

You are kidding? right.
Try putting any sort of flag in the end of my rifles barrel and someone will be walking funny.
I'd never consider that sort of method(having said that, it's been a while) of making sure a rifle is cleared.
The R/O is ultimately responsible for "Making sure" every rifle on the mound/range is cleared and safe no matter who else does what.
Action/bolt open, Empty receiver facing up, mag out,is the norm, as is the R/O individually checking each weapon, anything else is going to fail one day, even the flag up it.

As for hunting in Dorkland, depends where you can go. I can shoot Deer, Pigs, goats etc within half an hour of home in sorf Dorkland.For the expenditure of some walking/quad riding and some strong likor afterwards, all good.

For a start, it goes in at the breech, not the muzzle. The R/O doesn't put it in, you do. Perhaps 'barrel flag' should really be 'breech flag'.

Like I said, plenty of pistols/rifles out there where the action/bolt can't be held open, or that the receiver can't be obviously confirmed to be clear of an un-ejected round.

Also, there aren't really too many reasons why a range officer would need to be familiar with a wide range of firearms. All they should really need is to know the safety envelope, allowable calibers/firearm types and then be able to do basic range control. The barrel flags aren't the be all and end all, but given that I may not know the R/O I'm shooting under or the people I'm shooting with or be familiar with what constitutes 'safe' for their particular firearms, I'll take the flags over any other means, any day of the week.

[caseye]

jono035, honestly not trying to pick a scrap here, this seriously does concern me.
For the record I am an R/O and to do it properly takes time and commitment and being known or not by a shooter is not what is important, what is, is that YOU make sure no one slips up and everyone has an enjoyable day on the mound and goes home to mum, dad and the kids.
Here in NZ almost all R/Os are NZDA trained, all are trained the same way, all sit the same test and get certified, or not.
This is in part to prevent there being different approaches to how things are done on any Certified range, here in NZ.
The "Breech flag" is an idea worthy of merit, but even with these in use I'd still like to see that the R/O , whoever they are, did in fact individually, manually(where necessary, closed bolt, rotary, falling breech etc) check that any and all firearms on the mound/range are clear before anyone goes forward.To assume that all shooters are competent enough to do this and not check, is an accident waiting to happen.
As an R/O it behoves you to know the workings(not intimately and in minute detail) of any and all weapons presented for use on a range.How else are you going to make sure they are in fact safe.
Any R/O trained here by NZDA can take any and all range events from slug gun, small bore, full bore, pistol, national and international events and most definitely have to know more than the basics about range safety parameters, etc.
I'm sorry but you get one chance and if it's wrong, someone gets hurt.
I'm happier about the flags being breeched not barreled but am still concerned that the shooters are trusted to clear their own weapons and there is no other physical hands on check made by the R/O or their designated checker(someone who should also be a certified R/O)

[The Pastor]

jono035, honestly not trying to pick a scrap here, this seriously does concern me.
For the record I am an R/O and to do it properly takes time and commitment and being known or not by a shooter is not what is important, what is, is that YOU make sure no one slips up and everyone has an enjoyable day on the mound and goes home to mum, dad and the kids.
Here in NZ almost all R/Os are NZDA trained, all are trained the same way, all sit the same test and get certified, or not.
This is in part to prevent there being different approaches to how things are done on any Certified range, here in NZ.
The "Breech flag" is an idea worthy of merit, but even with these in use I'd still like to see that the R/O , whoever they are, did in fact individually, manually(where necessary, closed bolt, rotary, falling breech etc) check that any and all firearms on the mound/range are clear before anyone goes forward.To assume that all shooters are competent enough to do this and not check, is an accident waiting to happen.
As an R/O it behoves you to know the workings(not intimately and in minute detail) of any and all weapons presented for use on a range.How else are you going to make sure they are in fact safe.
Any R/O trained here by NZDA can take any and all range events from slug gun, small bore, full bore, pistol, national and international events and most definitely have to know more than the basics about range safety parameters, etc.
I'm sorry but you get one chance and if it's wrong, someone gets hurt.
I'm happier about the flags being breeched not barreled but am still concerned that the shooters are trusted to clear their own weapons and there is no other physical hands on check made by the R/O or their designated checker(someone who should also be a certified R/O)

Pretty sure the RO and riverhead never even looked at my rifle once.

[jono035]

jono035, honestly not trying to pick a scrap here, this seriously does concern me.
For the record I am an R/O and to do it properly takes time and commitment and being known or not by a shooter is not what is important, what is, is that YOU make sure no one slips up and everyone has an enjoyable day on the mound and goes home to mum, dad and the kids.
Here in NZ almost all R/Os are NZDA trained, all are trained the same way, all sit the same test and get certified, or not.
This is in part to prevent there being different approaches to how things are done on any Certified range, here in NZ.
The "Breech flag" is an idea worthy of merit, but even with these in use I'd still like to see that the R/O , whoever they are, did in fact individually, manually(where necessary, closed bolt, rotary, falling breech etc) check that any and all firearms on the mound/range are clear before anyone goes forward.To assume that all shooters are competent enough to do this and not check, is an accident waiting to happen.
As an R/O it behoves you to know the workings(not intimately and in minute detail) of any and all weapons presented for use on a range.How else are you going to make sure they are in fact safe.
Any R/O trained here by NZDA can take any and all range events from slug gun, small bore, full bore, pistol, national and international events and most definitely have to know more than the basics about range safety parameters, etc.
I'm sorry but you get one chance and if it's wrong, someone gets hurt.
I'm happier about the flags being breeched not barreled but am still concerned that the shooters are trusted to clear their own weapons and there is no other physical hands on check made by the R/O or their designated checker(someone who should also be a certified R/O)


No worries. I've got my RO qualification, too, but don't regularly use it anywhere at the moment.

Competent ROs would probably be the best option, but there still comes the problem where I'm at a range having to trust that the RO is competent, paying attention etc.

Using the breech flags makes the RO's job easier. Obviously he still needs to inspect each firearm to make sure the flag is inserted properly, that the mags are out (where possible) and unloaded etc. It also makes it easier for other shooters to see that a firearm is in a safe condition and hasn't been tampered with since inspected.

Basically, it seems like cheap insurance against the fallibility of humankind!

[Hans]

So..... I'm selling the bike, so I can get into shooting properly next season. Is this a bad thing, do I now face the fires of eternal damnation? What are your opinions? Has anyone had to do this? Just looking for a bit of sympathy here - Yeah right.

[scumdog]

What, you guys have to pay to shoot deer. That sux. :headbang:

I thought it a strange concept myself...

[unstuck]

I thought it a strange concept myself...

Sometimes if we have to walk into the middle of the blueys I pay for it the next day I suppose.:lol:

[caseye]

So..... I'm selling the bike, so I can get into shooting properly next season. Is this a bad thing, do I now face the fires of eternal damnation? What are your opinions? Has anyone had to do this? Just looking for a bit of sympathy here - Yeah right.

Hans, having to sell your bike is a terrible thing, is there not another way of doing things?
I once sold a rifle so I could buy a new tent big enough to take the whole family, haven't ever regretted that move but still had a few rifles so wasn't the end of the world.
If you've done your dash on bikes and you are sure about it, then what the hell, why not.
Make sure you buy the best quality you can, you will never regret that.

[carburator]

So..... I'm selling the bike, so I can get into shooting properly next season. Is this a bad thing, do I now face the fires of eternal damnation? What are your opinions? Has anyone had to do this? Just looking for a bit of sympathy here - Yeah right.

Hell I need to empty out the safe a bit.. what are you looking for

F class?
FTR?
something to knock a deer over with..

don't quite have anything that will stop a tank at the moment, elephant yes...

[Hans]

Heya, FTR appaarently. But the club is in the process of getting me a rifle, so the money is for getting some reloading gear and covering the other costs...


Hell I need to empty out the safe a bit.. what are you looking for

F class?
FTR?
something to knock a deer over with..

don't quite have anything that will stop a tank at the moment, elephant yes...

[carburator]

Heya, FTR appaarently. But the club is in the process of getting me a rifle, so the money is for getting some reloading gear and covering the other costs...

which club will you be shooting for?
308win is the better choice for FTR however i have seen one person with a .223 do very well out to the 1000yrds

sinclair is the place in the states to buy dies and rest bags ( and they ship international )
they also do a neat bipod too..

check out 6mmBR.com

[Hans]

which club will you be shooting for?
308win is the better choice for FTR however i have seen one person with a .223 do very well out to the 1000yrds

sinclair is the place in the states to buy dies and rest bags ( and they ship international )
they also do a neat bipod too..

check out 6mmBR.com

Karori. And yes, 308. Cheers for the info, Got roped into this by the Millers and the Flannagans.

[carburator]

Karori. And yes, 308. Cheers for the info, Got roped into this by the Millers and the Flannagans.

kind of thought it would be one of the lower North island clubs as the auckland ones well..
can't say they actively encourage FTR or even F class for that matter and heaven forbid
if you decided to have a "funday" and have a .17HMR 100yards shoot with magpie and
rabbit scored targets.

[Hans]

kind of thought it would be one of the lower North island clubs as the auckland ones well..
can't say they actively encourage FTR or even F class for that matter and heaven forbid
if you decided to have a "funday" and have a .17HMR 100yards shoot with magpie and
rabbit scored targets.

Let me guess. FTR and F class are considered to be politically incorrect? After all those classes were designed with a very ''dual purpose'' skill set in mind...

[Hans]

I had considered F-class, but all the extra gear seemed a bit cumbersome even though it would probably a bit more of a challenge...

[Indiana_Jones]

http://d12xzpun4kqsb2.cloudfront.net/gen/constrain/500/500/80/2012/07/21/20/jz/xl/phq00fzvkk1g74i.jpg

-Indy

[carburator]

I had considered F-class, but all the extra gear seemed a bit cumbersome even though it would probably a bit more of a challenge...

ok you really don't need the capachino bench rest machine that some use, a rock BR rest is ok..
i run a savage 6mmbr bench rest rifle, paid 2500 out of the box hell ID love to see a f class
built up out of a trueflight barrel and a decent action for that let alone add a stock..

FTR, admittly my FTR rig now is getting pretty trick but i started with a savage 10P
and a swift scope and a harris bipod and that would do as well if not better than some
guns that where 5K alone let alone the optics sitting on top..

admittly this year its a return to FTR and service rifle ( either the SLR for another year )
or im haggling over a rock river arms ar15 in .223 the build is better than a bush master
and light years over that crap remington makes..

[sAsLEX]

266893

Need some ideas for a little project for some copper sheet, made the thermette above and have about 1/4 sheet of copper that I cant think of a project for!

[carver]

Anyone interested in a gun storage tube?
Air tight, 150mm I/D 1300mm long.
All DN150 fittings
This is my SKS in the tube?
Be good to have for storage underground, on boats, or to put a shotgun in while being transported etc...

[SMOKEU]

Has anyone here had any experience with a Norinco SKS? This here seems pretty nice (http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-norinco-sks-16-carbine-a-cat-5-shot-semi-auto-xidp227383.html).

I've also noticed the SKK (http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-norinco-skk-16inch-xidp231164.html), what's the difference between that and the SKS, other than the different magazine? The SKK looks a lot nicer though with the magazine sticking out like that.

[jono035]

No more experience than having fired one a few times, but they seem like a good cheap semi-auto, providing you're not too worried about accuracy/scope. I've never particularly liked the look of the scope mounts for the SKS/AK, but then again I've got nothing to compare it against.

I'd say keep an eye out on TardeMe, I'm sure I've seen them for sale around the $200-300 mark...

[carver]

Has anyone here had any experience with a Norinco SKS? This here seems pretty nice (http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-norinco-sks-16-carbine-a-cat-5-shot-semi-auto-xidp227383.html).

I've also noticed the SKK (http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-norinco-skk-16inch-xidp231164.html), what's the difference between that and the SKS, other than the different magazine? The SKK looks a lot nicer though with the magazine sticking out like that.


SKS
pros
Cheap
Fun
Cheap Ammo

Cons
Shit finish
Shit std sights
Not too accurate long range (100m+)

[carburator]

Has anyone here had any experience with a Norinco SKS? This here seems pretty nice (http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-norinco-sks-16-carbine-a-cat-5-shot-semi-auto-xidp227383.html).

I've also noticed the SKK (http://www.guncity.co.nz/7.62x39-norinco-skk-16inch-xidp231164.html), what's the difference between that and the SKS, other than the different magazine? The SKK looks a lot nicer though with the magazine sticking out like that.

as a dirty semi auto bush gun with accuracy of minute of chinaman it does what it was designed to do.

The biggest thing is pull it apart in the shop and inspect the trigger group, the maching on the bolt carrier
there are stamped trigger groups ( utra cheap ) or machined.
barrels are either screwed in or pinned..

No two SKS varients are the same as ive seen over the years..

[SMOKEU]

I've seen the 7.62X39 ammo starts at around $65 for 100 rounds. Is there any place to get them much cheaper than that, other than reloading them myself? I was thinking it would be nice for a bit of goat or wild boar hunting maybe.

[jono035]

I've seen the 7.62X39 ammo starts at around $65 for 100 rounds. Is there any place to get them much cheaper than that, other than reloading them myself? I was thinking it would be nice for a bit of goat or wild boar hunting maybe.

Even reloading you won't get it all that much cheaper, that's pretty base as it is.

~10c per primer, 20-30c per projectile, 5-20c of powder, depending.

[Swoop]

Has anyone here had any experience with a Norinco SKS?
SKS. Good bush rifle that can be bashed around. Good out to 100/150m and has a fixed magazine.

SKK is the same but accepts detachable mags. Seem to remember they use the AK mag (??).

I use mine for goats. Have posted pictures previously in this thread of my scope setup. A great rifle overall.

[carver]

Some more pics, PM me for interest267370267371

[carver]

I've seen the 7.62X39 ammo starts at around $65 for 100 rounds. Is there any place to get them much cheaper than that, other than reloading them myself? I was thinking it would be nice for a bit of goat or wild boar hunting maybe.

You can get them a bit cheaper from barnaul (russianz)

[SMOKEU]

I'll need to save up for a bit longer, but I'm tempted to buy a 20" SKS instead of the 16" version. Does anyone here know if the 20" model will have similar accuracy to an AK47? I know it's a bit of a hard question to answer since there are so many different AK47 and SKS models out there. With a good scope will it come close to MOA?

I'll probably just keep the iron sights and get some practice at the NZHA range. Speaking of the NZHA range near Christchurch, has anyone here been skeet shooting there, and how much does it cost? I can supply all my own gear except for the clay thrower.

[Flip]

I would not think a SKS/SKM would ever meet MOA without heaps of work and very accurate ammo. The SKM does take the AL47 mag.

I can make cast bullets that, well, cost nothing. I load them into 308 and provided I push them no faster than 2200fps they shoot about 2 MOA out of my Ruger Mk2.

I have some experience with AK74s while working in Nigera, they are real nice to shoot. 30 rounds of rock and roll is a great feeling.

A friend of mine has a E cat SKS with a plastic folding stock that is a blast to shoot. The factory ones are just a nasty soviet rifle, ie work brillantly but look like shit.

[SMOKEU]

I would not think a SKS/SKM would ever meet MOA without heaps of work and very accurate ammo. The SKM does take the AL47 mag.

I can make cast bullets that, well, cost nothing. I load them into 308 and provided I push them no faster than 2200fps they shoot about 2 MOA out of my Ruger Mk2.

I have some experience with AK74s while working in Nigera, they are real nice to shoot. 30 rounds of rock and roll is a great feeling.

A friend of mine has a E cat SKS with a plastic folding stock that is a blast to shoot. The factory ones are just a nasty soviet rifle, ie work brillantly but look like shit.


Do you get scrap lead for free and cast them yourself? I've been looking at reloading purely on a cost basis instead of as a hobby, but since I've weighed up the options it seems like a whole lot of work for not a hell of a lot of money saved considering I don't shoot a huge number of rounds.

Have you ever reloaded 2 3/4" 12ga lead bird or buckshot shells before, and if you have, do you save a lot of money?

[jono035]

Do you get scrap lead for free and cast them yourself? I've been looking at reloading purely on a cost basis instead of as a hobby, but since I've weighed up the options it seems like a whole lot of work for not a hell of a lot of money saved considering I don't shoot a huge number of rounds.

Have you ever reloaded 2 3/4" 12ga lead bird or buckshot shells before, and if you have, do you save a lot of money?

I ran the numbers on reloading for shotgun and it was really quite difficult to make it worthwhile. With a shot casting setup it's cheaper, but even then not by much.

I've done a bit of bullet casting myself and I'd say go for it if you're interested, but I wouldn't take to it if you're just planning to save money. It can get pretty time consuming, but it's a lot of fun and quite 'zen' once you get into the groove.

The best lead stock I've found was wheel weights from some of the friendlier tire places. Between that, a bucket of leadhead nails and a few old lead pipes I've got probably 50-60kg of lead stock sitting around as muffins now. Makes for really good hold-down weights.

[Flip]

I have just called my mate with the SKK, he said it shoots 3 MOA with cheap chineese ammo and 1 1/2 with good hand loads. He also said it shoots the pants off an AK.

I have 2 muzzle loaders and a couple of 308's i load with cast bullets. The most accurate cast bullet I have is a 130 g small round nose bullet. It is very accurate when made of linotype lead alloy. It is good all rounder when made of weel weights. You can heat treat cast bullets in weel weights for a range of hardness. Basically a hard bullet shoots faster and is more accurate, a soft bullet kills game better. I suggest you get the Lyman cast book handbook which is a must if you get into cast bullets.

There is nothing in it for 12g. The cheap 12g ammo I buy by the case is cheaper than I can load. I shoot about 2 1/2 thousand rabbits a year and I have gone through a case and a half in one night spotlighting in central, so the cost of ammo adds up quickly. My trusty 12g Saga does not care if its cheap or expensive, it shoots anything all the time no problems.

I scrounge lead off demolition sites, flashing lead is soft and perfect for round balls but is far too soft for centre fire projectiles. My 75 cal smooth bore shoots a 540 g projectile so you don't get many from a pound of lead.

[jono035]

I have just called my mate with the SKK, he said it shoots 3 MOA with cheap chineese ammo and 1 1/2 with good hand loads. He also said it shoots the pants off an AK.

I have 2 muzzle loaders and a couple of 308's i load with cast bullets. The most accurate cast bullet I have is a 130 g small round nose bullet. It is very accurate when made of linotype lead alloy. It is good all rounder when made of weel weights. You can heat treat cast bullets in weel weights for a range of hardness. Basically a hard bullet shoots faster and is more accurate, a soft bullet kills game better. I suggest you get the Lyman cast book handbook which is a must if you get into cast bullets.

There is nothing in it for 12g. The cheap 12g ammo I buy by the case is cheaper than I can load. I have gone through a case and a half in one night spotlighting in central, so the cost adds up quickly. My 12g Saga does not care if its cheap or expensive, it shoots all ammo.

I scrounge lead off demolition sites, flashing lead is soft and perfect for round balls but is far too soft for centre fire projectiles. My 75 cal smooth bore shoots a 540 g projectile so you don't get many from a pound of lead.

Ah of course. If you're casting for a muzzle loader that makes life a lot easier. I've never had all that much luck finding any other sources for alloying metals beyond wheel weights, and that's a bit of a crapshoot, not to mention messy.

I don't shoot enough rounds through my .303 for it to be worth casting for, and the only other centerfire rifle I have is the AR-15, which I wouldn't feed bare lead through anyway, especially not with the humungous gas port.

I've shot cast rounds with reasonable results in 9mm and great results in .44 mag (once I got ones large enough for the oversized Taurus barrels.).

[SMOKEU]

and the only other centerfire rifle I have is the AR-15

That sounds like a lot of fun!

[jono035]

That sounds like a lot of fun!

Sure has been. Have only had a couple of chances to take it out and shoot it, but it's a fun little beast.

Don't have it cycling with subs and suppressor yet, but haven't had a chance to muck with any handloads for it, so I'm pretty confident I'll get it running, even if I have to muck around with the spring/buffer/bcg.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/42615-The-firearm-thread?p=1130333194#post1130333194

For subs, some ulrta-heavy cast bullets would be brilliant. Could always get a replacement un-drilled barrel and use it as a straight-pull bolt action!

[scumdog]

I'll need to save up for a bit longer, but I'm tempted to buy a 20" SKS instead of the 16" version. Does anyone here know if the 20" model will have similar accuracy to an AK47? I know it's a bit of a hard question to answer since there are so many different AK47 and SKS models out there. With a good scope will it come close to MOA?

I'll probably just keep the iron sights and get some practice at the NZHA range.

Unless you have a cat E licence you'll have to stick to a SKS (and even then its mag will have to be 'fixed' to hold no more than 7 rounds.

And generally 'AK47' and 'accurate' are mutually exclusive.

And saying a SKK 'looks nicer' with its 'sticking out mag' is what I'd expect from a boy...

[SMOKEU]

And saying a SKK 'looks nicer' with its 'sticking out mag' is what I'd expect from a boy...

You're entitled to your opinion.

[SMOKEU]

I found these (http://www.guncity.co.nz/12ga-kemen-lead-8-70mm-28g-super-xidp219055.html) at Gun City. 100 shells for $39.99!

I'm also looking at clay target throwers, since the shells are so cheap I might as well get into some skeet shooting again. Has anyone had any experience with clay throwers like these? (http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/accessories/clay-birds-throwers/auction-500078258.htm) I'm trying to keep things on a tight budget here.

[jono035]

I found these (http://www.guncity.co.nz/12ga-kemen-lead-8-70mm-28g-super-xidp219055.html) at Gun City. 100 shells for $39.99!

I'm also looking at clay target throwers, since the shells are so cheap I might as well get into some skeet shooting again. Has anyone had any experience with clay throwers like these? (http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/accessories/clay-birds-throwers/auction-500078258.htm) I'm trying to keep things on a tight budget here.

Yeah, they work pretty well, but there's a knack to em. I just about took RM's head off with one...

[SMOKEU]

Yeah, they work pretty well, but there's a knack to em. I just about took RM's head off with one...

haha...I guess that could happen as I intend to have the person throwing the clay behind and off to the side of me at all times so I can't accidentally shoot them.

[jono035]

haha...I guess that could happen as I intend to have the person throwing the clay behind and off to the side of me at all times so I can't accidentally shoot them.

Oh, that's exactly what we did, too. I just nearly got him with the clay...

[SMOKEU]

Oh, that's exactly what we did, too. I just nearly got him with the clay...

Hopefully the clay won't hurt too much. With a bit of practice do those clays go reasonably far? I've got open chokes so the clays don't need to go too far.