The firearm thread

[Flip]

Very nice. Any idea what you're going to fill the spare spot with?

The 1911 is pretty fun, I'm quite enjoying it. Mine is a polymer frame one, though, which I'm sure is sacrilege to many...

Thinking about a 32 cal Kentucky squirrel rifle, in flint. The ducks nuts for possums and Rabbits.

294204


Take it somewhere else, please.

Double plus 1.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah I think he is calling me that, a few times, he seems stuck on the concept of cocks mouths and arses.

What Challenge ? offered cash??

Please elaborate 100% Pete.


Take it somewhere else, please.

PM sent. Bored the rest enough already.

[jono035]

PM sent. Bored the rest enough already.

Thanks, much appreciated.

[Swoop]

Put 50 rounds onto a target from 15m and had them basically tear a 150mm diameter hole. Was about 100mm out, 2 o'clock, so not sure what the hell is going on there. I generally assume it's my shooting before I assume the sights are out, but everything else with the gun has just been absolutely singing.

I've seen pistol vices used for firing to check functioning and sight position etc. before. Anyone had any experience with those?

Possible #1: Have a look at the handgun target analysis chart and see what it is saying for your hold (heeling - anticipating recoil).

Possible #2: Use a nice solid rest and fire some rounds from a benched position. Line up the target using the sights and ignore what is happening on the target. Concentrate on the sights and a nice gentle/smooth trigger pull. Be as accurate as you can and take your time. If the group of holes are all together, great! That means you need to adjust the sights a bit.

If the holes are apart... new load needs to be developed or a new projectile is needed. I don't know anyone using round nosed rounds in a .45.

[jono035]

Possible #1: Have a look at the handgun target analysis chart and see what it is saying for your hold (heeling - anticipating recoil).

Possible #2: Use a nice solid rest and fire some rounds from a benched position. Line up the target using the sights and ignore what is happening on the target. Concentrate on the sights and a nice gentle/smooth trigger pull. Be as accurate as you can and take your time. If the group of holes are all together, great! That means you need to adjust the sights a bit.

If the holes are apart... new load needs to be developed or a new projectile is needed. I don't know anyone using round nosed rounds in a .45.

Normally my issue is flinching and dropping the barrel bottom left. If I'm heeling it up to the right, which would match with the chart, then that's a new one on me... I'd prefer to assume that it's something I'm doing before changing the sights so I'll go with that until proven otherwise.

I'll make up a couple of mags of mixed live/dummy rounds and see what happens...

What do the shooters you know use with the .45? JHP? Not sure if I'd want to make a permanent switch to jacketed due to price, but it'd be worth a quick figuring out.

Flip - That's beautiful wood on that rifle. Would make a hilarious possuming rifle. I'm still turning the De Lisle Carbine idea over in my head for that...

[nseagoon]

I run 185g semi wadcutter in my 45, not the most accurate but cheap. I compete/mainly shoot with 9mm so didn't justify the higher cost. Most people I know use round nose in their ones, don't know weight but very accurate

I've noticed SWC can cut the paper whereas I've noticed round nose usually cuts a hole. May have something to do with the fact both are below supersonic and SWC is usually slower and presents a bigger surface area to the paper?
Would checking splatter pattern on steel help?

[Akzle]

What do the shooters you know use with the .45? JHP? Not sure if I'd want to make a permanent switch to jacketed due to price, but it'd be worth a quick figuring out.

coated lead wadcutter yo.

[Akzle]

I run 185g semi wadcutter in my 45, not the most accurate but cheap.
semi?
go for a slower powder.
If that dont cut it, a lighter load of a faster one.
Somewhere twist meets speed meets pressure. At that point, yall can pop some caps in asses yo.

[jono035]

I run 185g semi wadcutter in my 45, not the most accurate but cheap. I compete/mainly shoot with 9mm so didn't justify the higher cost. Most people I know use round nose in their ones, don't know weight but very accurate

I've noticed SWC can cut the paper whereas I've noticed round nose usually cuts a hole. May have something to do with the fact both are below supersonic and SWC is usually slower and presents a bigger surface area to the paper?
Would checking splatter pattern on steel help?

Interesting. The round nose ones kinda split the paper then push through... Wadcutters are supposed to punch a hole but I think that's more for cardboard targets, not paper. On paper the 'slap' of the flat face might cause the tear, rather than the gradual push of the round nose, I guess.

I haven't seen anyone at Howick or CSI shooting anything other than round nose and the occasional hollow point. Richard at Serious Shooters mentioned that conical HP is the most accurate bullet he has found for 9mm, don't know if that translates to .45...

[Swoop]

What do the shooters you know use with the .45? JHP? Not sure if I'd want to make a permanent switch to jacketed due to price, but it'd be worth a quick figuring out.

If you are talking with Richard about projectiles, he will tell you that they are going out of all-lead projectiles due to the cost and having to deal with a local supplier/manufacturer...
He has a sample range of the new jacketed projectiles that they will be replacing their current stuff with. Worth a look.

All the .45 shooters I know use either 185gr SWC or 200grSWC. I don't know of anyone using jacketed proj in that round either.

[jono035]

mm
If you are talking with Richard about projectiles, he will tell you that they are going out of all-lead projectiles due to the cost and having to deal with a local supplier/manufacturer...
He has a sample range of the new jacketed projectiles that they will be replacing their current stuff with. Worth a look.

All the .45 shooters I know use either 185gr SWC or 200grSWC. I don't know of anyone using jacketed proj in that round either.

Very interesting... Maybe I need to revisit my auto-caster project :facepalm:

I've just ordered 1K Frontier plated Round Nose to try out. I might just try shooting from a bench/rest and see how good the plated ones are before doing anything too drastic. If they do better than 50mm at 15m then they're probably accurate enough for my shooting abilities.

[nseagoon]

I might have to muck around with my 45 load, dust the old girl off and have a go at the CSI shoot saturday and see what changes I end up with, here I was getting distracted by longer rifles.
The round may be seated a bit too far back. I was originally having problems with the round not chambering fully due to the projectile seated too far out I may have missed the middle ground.

As for the Steyr Akzle, they're not particularly modular. without looking at the A3 failed US project the NZ/Oz ones don't have availability for other calibres (Lithgow .22LR tests were unsuccessful), they have proprietary magazines, even with a nicely cleaned and graphite lubed trigger they're still not the greatest. I haven't used the Gun City ones but I do like the look of them with the 22" bull barrel, but they aren't $4k nice.
I'm not saying the AR platform is the be all and end all either but at $2k for a half decent one, then say $200 in parts from the states (or even a set of $10 JP springs) and you have a half decent rifle. I'm keeping an ear to the ground for the .308Win Tavor which may be longer than 762mm, therefore potentially available for NZ import. they take Stanag magazines, have rails up the wazoo and a nicer trigger than military steyrs.
Or just do what I do, have dream guns and projects from childhood, movies, games, books and internet browsing. ignore practicality and make them happen.

also IRT my De Lisle project, anyone used SWC projectiles for hunting?

[sAsLEX]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/gadgets/30017857/printers-capable-of-making-guns

Might need to see if you can make a rifle ...... that would be legal see.....

[jono035]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/gadgets/30017857/printers-capable-of-making-guns

Might need to see if you can make a rifle ...... that would be legal see.....

There are some guys in Canada who did it, from memory. It blew up pretty bad.

That thing is a neat idea, but it's still a bit of a joke.

I've seen some guys who have done interesting stuff with carbon fibre wrapping around 3D printed formers, so that'd be kinda interesting as a way of beefing up the barrel.

[jono035]

I might have to muck around with my 45 load, dust the old girl off and have a go at the CSI shoot saturday and see what changes I end up with, here I was getting distracted by longer rifles.
The round may be seated a bit too far back. I was originally having problems with the round not chambering fully due to the projectile seated too far out I may have missed the middle ground.

As for the Steyr Akzle, they're not particularly modular. without looking at the A3 failed US project the NZ/Oz ones don't have availability for other calibres (Lithgow .22LR tests were unsuccessful), they have proprietary magazines, even with a nicely cleaned and graphite lubed trigger they're still not the greatest. I haven't used the Gun City ones but I do like the look of them with the 22" bull barrel, but they aren't $4k nice.
I'm not saying the AR platform is the be all and end all either but at $2k for a half decent one, then say $200 in parts from the states (or even a set of $10 JP springs) and you have a half decent rifle. I'm keeping an ear to the ground for the .308Win Tavor which may be longer than 762mm, therefore potentially available for NZ import. they take Stanag magazines, have rails up the wazoo and a nicer trigger than military steyrs.
Or just do what I do, have dream guns and projects from childhood, movies, games, books and internet browsing. ignore practicality and make them happen.

also IRT my De Lisle project, anyone used SWC projectiles for hunting?

Where is the CSI shoot? Deerstalkers or Warkworth? What kind of shooting are they doing out there? An IPSC setup or fixed distance targets?

[Akzle]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/gadgets/30017857/printers-capable-of-making-guns

Might need to see if you can make a rifle ...... that would be legal see.....

guns are easy enough to make as is,
just not for angry teenagers.
And why the fuck would your neighbour shoot you for printing a spanner? Who the fuck writes this shit?

Of course, any nigger with a 5 axis cnc doesnt need to fuckaround with "printing" plastic...

[Swoop]

Very interesting... Maybe I need to revisit my auto-caster project

There was a chap John (? surname) out Kumeu way, who had made an auto casting process. Bloody interesting it was too! Four sets of cavity moulds that rotated around with lead pouring in the top and the moulds separating to allow the projectile to fall free at a later station. Swaging and lubing was a different process but he had that working well also. Not too sure what happened to him... I could use some of his projectiles now!

[nseagoon]

Where is the CSI shoot? Deerstalkers or Warkworth? What kind of shooting are they doing out there? An IPSC setup or fixed distance targets?

CSI Invite only at Deerstalkers from Trevor on behalf of Omni. I can PM you his contact details if you don't have them already.
This week it's ISSF, 25m standing only.
I missed last week which was IPSC. There's usually a shoot a month.

Have you seen the 3d printed colt 1911? http://www.solidconcepts.com/news-releases/worlds-first-3d-printed-metal-gun-manufactured-solid-concepts/
a lot of prep work went into filing the parts smooth when printing was complete but it worked first time, although the oversized parts do look rather comical.
I think this is the future of actual printed firearms, the plastic ones are still pretty much a concept at this stage and were more made to prove a point about the pointlessness of regulating firearms, whereas this printed metal pistol has more practical applications.

I found a enfield/1911 adaptor. pretty pricey though, definitely looking like I'll make or have made something in NZ http://www.specialinterestarms.com/index.php?page=enfield_conversions

[jono035]

CSI Invite only at Deerstalkers from Trevor on behalf of Omni. I can PM you his contact details if you don't have them already.
This week it's ISSF, 25m standing only.
I missed last week which was IPSC. There's usually a shoot a month.

Have you seen the 3d printed colt 1911? http://www.solidconcepts.com/news-releases/worlds-first-3d-printed-metal-gun-manufactured-solid-concepts/
a lot of prep work went into filing the parts smooth when printing was complete but it worked first time, although the oversized parts do look rather comical.
I think this is the future of actual printed firearms, the plastic ones are still pretty much a concept at this stage and were more made to prove a point about the pointlessness of regulating firearms, whereas this printed metal pistol has more practical applications.

I found a enfield/1911 adaptor. pretty pricey though, definitely looking like I'll make or have made something in NZ http://www.specialinterestarms.com/index.php?page=enfield_conversions

Yeah, I keep seeing the e-mails go out from Trevor but I've never been. Do you have any idea what the IPSC course is like out there?

Also, I've tried asking if the Warkworth shoots were IPSC or just stationary targets but haven't heard anything back about that, either. Should probably just go along.

[jono035]

There was a chap John (? surname) out Kumeu way, who had made an auto casting process. Bloody interesting it was too! Four sets of cavity moulds that rotated around with lead pouring in the top and the moulds separating to allow the projectile to fall free at a later station. Swaging and lubing was a different process but he had that working well also. Not too sure what happened to him... I could use some of his projectiles now!

Ah yeah, I've seen a commercial one that works like that, too.

I was going to try making one based around a single mold and a reciprocating motion... It seems like they take a while to come up to temperature and get 'settled' so that the rate of cooling from the fans or ambient matches the heating from each charge of molten lead. I was going to festoon the thing with thermocouples and see if I could take a slightly more 'electronic' approach to it all.

Needed a welder and enough space that I wouldn't burn my house down, though. Both things that I'll hopefully have remedied in not too long.

So many projects, so little time.

[nseagoon]

Yeah, I keep seeing the e-mails go out from Trevor but I've never been. Do you have any idea what the IPSC course is like out there?

Also, I've tried asking if the Warkworth shoots were IPSC or just stationary targets but haven't heard anything back about that, either. Should probably just go along.


I enjoy DSA. it's not as good overall as Warkworth or Auckland pistol club but the chaps are good and we make do with the 25m range. generally 3 or 4 sets of targets followed by steel plates and a popper or two at the back.
Occasionally there's a 3 gun shoot there and the 100m range is utilised which provides more room and a larger course of fire.

Warkworth is almost completely dedicated to IPSC. It's a bit of a trek out there and make sure you organise it beforehand as they don't take kindly to visitors, even if you're just there for a look not a shoot

[jono035]

I enjoy DSA. it's not as good overall as Warkworth or Auckland pistol club but the chaps are good and we make do with the 25m range. generally 3 or 4 sets of targets followed by steel plates and a popper or two at the back.
Occasionally there's a 3 gun shoot there and the 100m range is utilised which provides more room and a larger course of fire.

Warkworth is almost completely dedicated to IPSC. It's a bit of a trek out there and make sure you organise it beforehand as they don't take kindly to visitors, even if you're just there for a look not a shoot

Yeah, I went to a couple of the early IPSC days that one of the Warkworth guys put on for the CSI guys. The facility is pretty amazing up there. I've seen a couple more mentions of events at Warkworth for CSI shooters, but I don't know if it's IPSC or just target shooting.

[jono035]

294310
294311
294312

Shows the basic idea, anyway. Without a single stack 1911 mag, it's a little difficult!

I did have to... uhhh.... 'encourage' it into place... With a mallet... But it left some nice marks on the adapter so I know where the model needs to be taken in.

It looks like it seats home where the feed lips would normally be quite nicely. I can bring the position for the 1911 mag quite a lot more forward if need be, too, to bridge the gap between the end of the 1911 mag and the barrel feed ramp.

I'll see if someone has a spare 1911 single stack mag that I can borrow on Sunday, perhaps one with a busted spring or missing follower or something.

[sAsLEX]

Check this 3D printed model out - Comes out of the printer ready to go, with only the propeller needing to be stuck on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9tOc47ceWQ

http://www.shapeways.com/shops/theojansen

[jono035]

They showed one of those models on an episode of QI. Theo Jansen's stuff is pretty amazing. I've seen someone who had a model for a walking coffee table based on one, I think...

My fiance wants one so I've taken a couple of attempts at printing them. The models that I've used have been designed for a Laser Sintering based process (like the one from Shapeways) so they won't really work with a FDM type printer. Instead I might just have to import them and tweak the design a bit.

[sAsLEX]

They showed one of those models on an episode of QI. Theo Jansen's stuff is pretty amazing. I've seen someone who had a model for a walking coffee table based on one, I think...

My fiance wants one so I've taken a couple of attempts at printing them. The models that I've used have been designed for a Laser Sintering based process (like the one from Shapeways) so they won't really work with a FDM type printer. Instead I might just have to import them and tweak the design a bit.

QI was on last night, its on all the time on Dave

[nseagoon]

Shows the basic idea, anyway. Without a single stack 1911 mag, it's a little difficult!

I did have to... uhhh.... 'encourage' it into place... With a mallet... But it left some nice marks on the adapter so I know where the model needs to be taken in.

It looks like it seats home where the feed lips would normally be quite nicely. I can bring the position for the 1911 mag quite a lot more forward if need be, too, to bridge the gap between the end of the 1911 mag and the barrel feed ramp.

I'll see if someone has a spare 1911 single stack mag that I can borrow on Sunday, perhaps one with a busted spring or missing follower or something.

I only have a s&w 4506 so my mags would be no good for testing fitting.
I wouldn't worry about the adaptor having to be forced in, it's almost garanteed not to move, and it's no good putting 303 mags in because it'll be a 45 barrel.

that makes me think. I might have a lip put in as well as the extractor modified to help hold the round in. I haven't tried but I wouldn't want someone putting a mag of 303 in and having a round somehow chamber.... I don't think it would though.

putting the mag as far forwards as possible without compromising structual integrity would probably be the go. but confirming this would probably have to wait until the rifle is built. for all I know Robbie might have a long feed ramp or mag might end up with the wrong entry angle.

I've decided to confirm details with Gunworks late April and have him do the work starting May.

In other news it was good to get out there and do it on Saturday. I managed to sight the AR in (only 25m) with the new scope, I gave it enough elevation which should have it almost perfect when I go to sight it in for 100m. I also tuned the gas and trialed the new spearmags and the bolt hold open on all of them.
I'm also happy with the balance the gunworks suppressor has with the rifle. snap shooting and holding on target aren't a problem and it only weighs 300gm
also My 45 rounds were seated too far inside the case which was causing the paper to rip instead of punch through. I've found a good middle ground so the round is far enough in that the round chambers reliably and minimal gap to the rifling.
294497

[jono035]

I only have a s&w 4506 so my mags would be no good for testing fitting.
I wouldn't worry about the adaptor having to be forced in, it's almost garanteed not to move, and it's no good putting 303 mags in because it'll be a 45 barrel.

that makes me think. I might have a lip put in as well as the extractor modified to help hold the round in. I haven't tried but I wouldn't want someone putting a mag of 303 in and having a round somehow chamber.... I don't think it would though.

putting the mag as far forwards as possible without compromising structual integrity would probably be the go. but confirming this would probably have to wait until the rifle is built. for all I know Robbie might have a long feed ramp or mag might end up with the wrong entry angle.

I've decided to confirm details with Gunworks late April and have him do the work starting May.

In other news it was good to get out there and do it on Saturday. I managed to sight the AR in (only 25m) with the new scope, I gave it enough elevation which should have it almost perfect when I go to sight it in for 100m. I also tuned the gas and trialed the new spearmags and the bolt hold open on all of them.
I'm also happy with the balance the gunworks suppressor has with the rifle. snap shooting and holding on target aren't a problem and it only weighs 300gm
also My 45 rounds were seated too far inside the case which was causing the paper to rip instead of punch through. I've found a good middle ground so the round is far enough in that the round chambers reliably and minimal gap to the rifling.
294497

Nice collection there. What's the scope on your AR? I've just got a cheap Nikko Stirling on mine, but it works nicely for the useful ranges of subsonic 300 Blackout.

With further reading, it looks like you need to modify the .45ACP mags in some way, either by filing the feed lips down or opening them out slightly so the bolt can reliably pick up a round. I haven't seen anyone really explain why this is the case, but it looks like the magazine might also need to be at a different angle to the bolt than the regular magazine for reliable feeding. It looks like this is probably all down to getting the feed right.

How much barrel were you planning to use and how much leftover do you think you'd have?

[nseagoon]

Nice collection there. What's the scope on your AR? I've just got a cheap Nikko Stirling on mine, but it works nicely for the useful ranges of subsonic 300 Blackout.

With further reading, it looks like you need to modify the .45ACP mags in some way, either by filing the feed lips down or opening them out slightly so the bolt can reliably pick up a round. I haven't seen anyone really explain why this is the case, but it looks like the magazine might also need to be at a different angle to the bolt than the regular magazine for reliable feeding. It looks like this is probably all down to getting the feed right.

How much barrel were you planning to use and how much leftover do you think you'd have?

It's a Burris Fullfield 3-9 with a ballistic drop reticule. I quite like it as it's not intrusive on the reticule. I've found other cheap ones such as Redfield are bulky and quite cluttered. I'm thinking I'll probably build a 300 blackout upper around the same time I attempt the 45 AR.

I'd attempt the mags as is at first, without modification. I think if I replicate the same angle to the feed ramp pistols use then it should be alright. I imagine it will look quite angled compared to the line of the carbine itself.

I'm not sure how much barrel I'll use. I can't get any decent answers from the states because they mostly have fake suppressors and are 16" minimum to meet their short barrel rifle laws.
The original was 8 odd inches long. What I was thinking is I'll do more research and see if I can find a "optimum"barrel length for a 230 grain load (probably the easiest available projectile)
I'm guessing I may be using between 8 and 10 inches as I'll be wanting velocity close but not too close to supersonic (1100 odd fps depending on the weather) I should be aiming for 1000-1050fps for a standard 45 load.

I believe vulcan barrel blanks are 30" long but I'll have to check.
I'll probably look at using around 10 inches maybe slightly longer for the AR experiment

That leaves roughly 10 inches left over that I'm sure I'll have to find another home for when finished ;-) . It all really depends what length I decide to go to for the De lisle as to how much is left over.

[jono035]

It's a Burris Fullfield 3-9 with a ballistic drop reticule. I quite like it as it's not intrusive on the reticule. I've found other cheap ones such as Redfield are bulky and quite cluttered. I'm thinking I'll probably build a 300 blackout upper around the same time I attempt the 45 AR.

I'd attempt the mags as is at first, without modification. I think if I replicate the same angle to the feed ramp pistols use then it should be alright. I imagine it will look quite angled compared to the line of the carbine itself.

I'm not sure how much barrel I'll use. I can't get any decent answers from the states because they mostly have fake suppressors and are 16" minimum to meet their short barrel rifle laws.
The original was 8 odd inches long. What I was thinking is I'll do more research and see if I can find a "optimum"barrel length for a 230 grain load (probably the easiest available projectile)
I'm guessing I may be using between 8 and 10 inches as I'll be wanting velocity close but not too close to supersonic (1100 odd fps depending on the weather) I should be aiming for 1000-1050fps for a standard 45 load.

I believe vulcan barrel blanks are 30" long but I'll have to check.
I'll probably look at using around 10 inches maybe slightly longer for the AR experiment

That leaves roughly 10 inches left over that I'm sure I'll have to find another home for when finished ;-) . It all really depends what length I decide to go to for the De lisle as to how much is left over.

I've seen a lot of mention to 7-8" for most 45 loads. If you're loading a custom round dedicated for the De Lisle you could probably get a bit more pressure into it and use a slower powder to make better use of a long barrel. There's a lot of headroom for the 230gn .45s before they transition to supersonic. The downside is that lots of slow powder normally means higher muzzle pressure so more noise.

This is essentially the inverse of the issue I'm having with my .300 blackout. If I use a fast powder, I can use stuff-all to get the bullet to the transition speed and have low muzzle pressure, but it's low and dropping by the time it hits the gas port. If I use a little more slower powder then I can push the peak pressure pulse out towards the gas port and have better operating pressure but then I've got to really struggle to stay subsonic with 100% powder burn by the time the gas port is uncovered.

According to QuickLoad, a 6 grains of AP70N is absolute max load at 230gn and 32mm COAL (interestingly, that's almost an entire grain above ADI's recommendations, I'd treat that load with real suspicion in a pistol) and gets you to 1000fps in a 6" barrel. Max load is still only 21kpsi which is bloody low as most things go. I'm not sure how much of that is case strength vs barrel strength, but any rifle barrel is going to be far, far stronger than you need for that. It's whether the .45 brass itself is up to it, which probably depends a lot on how tight or loose the chamber gets cut.

Either way, that provides a reasonable 'minimum' length I guess. I'd be reasonably comfortable that you could get to the transition zone out of a 8" barrel without pushing the round too hard.

For AS 30 or AP50N you wouldn't quite get there in 8-10", but the muzzle pressures would be lower.

Anyway, interesting thoughts.

[Mr Merde]

Oh, this is a Kimber 1911 pistol, and my shooting is generally appalling so a 150mm group at 15m is amazing in my books. With the Glock I'm easily twice that.

It's .45ACP shooting 230gn round nose Berry's projectiles. Not the most accurate bullet in that caliber (or so I keep hearing) but probably still a lot better than I can do with it.

So far I'm seeing how many rounds I can put through it before it starts to flake out. I'm 300-400 rounds in without much more than swabbing down the barrel and it still cycles sweet, no excessive build-up anywhere, so I think we're going to get along just fine :)

the 1911 platform and the .45 ACP are my favcourite combination.
Had an AMT Hardballer in the UK with a 2lb trigger, Dwyer Group gripper and slide to frame fit.

Sweet to shoot.
Accurate as hell.
Heavy punching.

[jono035]

the 1911 platform and the .45 ACP are my favcourite combination.
Had an AMT Hardballer in the UK with a 2lb trigger, Dwyer Group gripper and slide to frame fit.

Sweet to shoot.
Accurate as hell.
Heavy punching.

I was never a huge fan of how meaty the STI/Para double stack grips were, so the polymer frame feels really nice, almost the same as a single stacker.

It fits me nicely, points well and I was at home with the trigger instantly, as opposed to the Glock where I still find myself riding it too far foward and then yanking it back really badly on double taps etc.

There's also just something nice about an exposed hammer gun (especially in single action so you don't have any of this first round double-action crazyness...).

The one problem I've noticed with it is that there is a pin of some kind in the windage adjustment on the rear sight that is loose and starts sticking out. I've pushed it back in but it slipped out again and I slashed my finger open on it last weekend. I'll grab a photo of it at some point and see if there are any opinions about it on here. It looks like it might be a detent spring or something...

[Hoon]

As for the Steyr Akzle, they're not particularly modular. without looking at the A3 failed US project the NZ/Oz ones don't have availability for other calibres (Lithgow .22LR tests were unsuccessful), they have proprietary magazines, even with a nicely cleaned and graphite lubed trigger they're still not the greatest. I haven't used the Gun City ones but I do like the look of them with the 22" bull barrel, but they aren't $4k nice.
I'm not saying the AR platform is the be all and end all either but at $2k for a half decent one, then say $200 in parts from the states (or even a set of $10 JP springs) and you have a half decent rifle.

I shoot a lot of Steyr in Military competitions and it is a very capable rifle in the right hands. I do agree though that there are better options but when it comes free you can't really complain. In fact I'm thinking of getting into civilian shooting for more exposure and have been told that building/buying an AR15 and doing Service Rifle shooting is the way to go. As much as I love the Steyr and know it inside out, I wouldn't spend my own money on it :)

[nseagoon]

I shoot a lot of Steyr in Military competitions and it is a very capable rifle in the right hands. I do agree though that there are better options but when it comes free you can't really complain. In fact I'm thinking of getting into civilian shooting for more exposure and have been told that building/buying an AR15 and doing Service Rifle shooting is the way to go. As much as I love the Steyr and know it inside out, I wouldn't spend my own money on it :)

I shoot it too and it does shoot better than me but isn't too practical for personal customisation due to its proprietary nature.
The best thing for them is a well lubricated trigger group, graphite or the like.

as for an AR I'd suggest build your own lower, very easy to import the parts especially for A cat and not hard to do yourself.
the only annoying part is waiting for the parts to come off back order in the states due to their mental buying there. I'm still waiting for a piece of aluminium tubing (a2 buffer tube) to come off back order and it's been 10 week already, and it takes DPMS 6 weeks to manufacture a special order lower parts kit (one without an A2 pistol grip) apparently they can't just remove the grip from a current kit.

[jono035]

I shoot it too and it does shoot better than me but isn't too practical for personal customisation due to its proprietary nature.
The best thing for them is a well lubricated trigger group, graphite or the like.

as for an AR I'd suggest build your own lower, very easy to import the parts especially for A cat and not hard to do yourself.
the only annoying part is waiting for the parts to come off back order in the states due to their mental buying there. I'm still waiting for a piece of aluminium tubing (a2 buffer tube) to come off back order and it's been 10 week already, and it takes DPMS 6 weeks to manufacture a special order lower parts kit (one without an A2 pistol grip) apparently they can't just remove the grip from a current kit.

I saw a .45ACP lower on trademe and started to consider that. Any thoughts you've got regarding good places to purchase parts that don't ream you too much on the shipping would be appreciated. What do you think the total cost of building up from a stripped lower would be using base level parts?

[nseagoon]

I've seen a lot of mention to 7-8" for most 45 loads. If you're loading a custom round dedicated for the De Lisle you could probably get a bit more pressure into it and use a slower powder to make better use of a long barrel. There's a lot of headroom for the 230gn .45s before they transition to supersonic. The downside is that lots of slow powder normally means higher muzzle pressure so more noise.

This is essentially the inverse of the issue I'm having with my .300 blackout. If I use a fast powder, I can use stuff-all to get the bullet to the transition speed and have low muzzle pressure, but it's low and dropping by the time it hits the gas port. If I use a little more slower powder then I can push the peak pressure pulse out towards the gas port and have better operating pressure but then I've got to really struggle to stay subsonic with 100% powder burn by the time the gas port is uncovered.

According to QuickLoad, a 6 grains of AP70N is absolute max load at 230gn and 32mm COAL (interestingly, that's almost an entire grain above ADI's recommendations, I'd treat that load with real suspicion in a pistol) and gets you to 1000fps in a 6" barrel. Max load is still only 21kpsi which is bloody low as most things go. I'm not sure how much of that is case strength vs barrel strength, but any rifle barrel is going to be far, far stronger than you need for that. It's whether the .45 brass itself is up to it, which probably depends a lot on how tight or loose the chamber gets cut.

Either way, that provides a reasonable 'minimum' length I guess. I'd be reasonably comfortable that you could get to the transition zone out of a 8" barrel without pushing the round too hard.

For AS 30 or AP50N you wouldn't quite get there in 8-10", but the muzzle pressures would be lower.

Anyway, interesting thoughts.

I'm starting to think I may go for between 8 or 9 inches. the original was just over 8" so maybe the experts were on to something. I know it won't reach supersonic with the loads I'll be making but It could disrupted if it's much over 1000fps and if the air pressure is high (lowering speed of sound), but I don't want it too slow either just to ensure knock down power.

I'm only using 185g SWC at the moment and use 5.2g titegroup. I have heard SWC can be used for hunting but never seen it myself. I might test loads closer to maximum and see what works best with the rifle once it's complete (at the end of the day it's better to be accurate and slow than inaccurate but faster)

I'll probably end up using 230g jacketed as they seem to be inherently more accurate for some reason.

[nseagoon]

I saw a .45ACP lower on trademe and started to consider that. Any thoughts you've got regarding good places to purchase parts that don't ream you too much on the shipping would be appreciated. What do you think the total cost of building up from a stripped lower would be using base level parts?

I saw that too but I'm only going to budget maybe $300 for the lower maximum. it was a glock magazine one which would be more helpful assuming parts are easier available.
that one was stripped though so you'd still have to buy a lower parts kit.
I've heard of one guy buying a solid dummy mag and cutting it out to fit his 9mm mags, maybe I'll try that. I've seen a picture somewhere too that a guy put a block down the front of an AR mag and made a single stack pistol magazine

I don't want to build a propriotery lower I have one E and building a A lower. I want anything to work in either one. So I can put 22, 223, 300 and 45 on either lower and away I go. that may increase some costs, I still haven't found how I'll do a 45 bolt carrier group. I don't believe a 308 bolt fits in a 223 carrier group which is unfortunate because that could be modified to fit 45.
I don't want to go to a 308 lower though. I have the SLR if I want to shoot 308.

[jono035]

I'm starting to think I may go for between 8 or 9 inches. the original was just over 8" so maybe the experts were on to something. I know it won't reach supersonic with the loads I'll be making but It could disrupted if it's much over 1000fps and if the air pressure is high (lowering speed of sound), but I don't want it too slow either just to ensure knock down power.

I'm only using 185g SWC at the moment and use 5.2g titegroup. I have heard SWC can be used for hunting but never seen it myself. I might test loads closer to maximum and see what works best with the rifle once it's complete (at the end of the day it's better to be accurate and slow than inaccurate but faster)

I'll probably end up using 230g jacketed as they seem to be inherently more accurate for some reason.

185gn Lead SWC with 5.2g of titegroup shows up as 1020fps out of an 8" barrel for me, according to QuickLOAD. That's 8" from case head to muzzle, so only about 7" of bullet travel.

Edit: I agree about the Glock mags, for sure, but that does mean that inherently it's going to be a hassle that requires mags to be blocked out to 7 rounds or it's going to end up E-cat. I don't have any Glock mags, so that helps as it would have to be specific.

I had a bit more of a play with the .303 insert idea. I've got a printed part now that clips in and out like an existing mag, but looks like it will feed .45ACP directly out of it, no secondary mag required...

It doesn't have a base, follower or spring currently. I figure in the near term it's probably easiest to get those from a mag rebuild kit or something.

[nseagoon]

185gn Lead SWC with 5.2g of titegroup shows up as 1020fps out of an 8" barrel for me, according to QuickLOAD. That's 8" from case head to muzzle, so only about 7" of bullet travel.

Edit: I agree about the Glock mags, for sure, but that does mean that inherently it's going to be a hassle that requires mags to be blocked out to 7 rounds or it's going to end up E-cat. I don't have any Glock mags, so that helps as it would have to be specific.

I had a bit more of a play with the .303 insert idea. I've got a printed part now that clips in and out like an existing mag, but looks like it will feed .45ACP directly out of it, no secondary mag required...

It doesn't have a base, follower or spring currently. I figure in the near term it's probably easiest to get those from a mag rebuild kit or something.

I'm starting to lean further towards just over 8" and the load data seems to support it. as you said mentioning quickload.
I'm thinking 8 1/4" I think I'll check with vulcan as I can't remember the twist rate, i've seen certain barrels change their accuracy when certain lengths due to something to do with the twist but I don't think I'll be going any longer than 8 3/4"

the mag issue will only be a concern for the ar15 upper which is some time away. can anyone confirm for sure the 308 bolt doesn't fit in the standard ar15 BCG? otherwise I'll have to look for a 6.8 or 455 bolt, most pistol cartridge bolt groups are one piece and are harder to export from the states due to 1 finding a company that can export, and 2 having it under the $100USD threshold.

This 303 insert, does it have moulded feed lips so you just pop a follower and spring underneath? sounds nifty.

I'm starting to look forward to May, a couple of life changes and I'll have a functioning De Lisle Carbine.
the most taxing part for me will be developing the suppressor. I've built a couple of muzzle forward ones for a .22 in the past with limited success, I helped a mate build one on a 9mm that was slightly more successful. I'll be doing a light weight aluminium over barrel with muzzle brake and I'll see how many baffles and the distances required between them to get the thing out to legal length.
if it all turns to custard I'll have learned how not to do things and worst case scenario I'll have Robbie Tiffen or DPT manufacture one for many $$$. I'll make it interchangable between the AR upper and the De Lisle. AR won't be happening until at least the end of the year.

[jono035]

I've seen mentioned in several places that the 308 bolt doesn't fit, hence the need to modify.

Yeah, the insert at the moment has the feed lips printed into it. I've got a new version waiting to try at home and the one I printed on Sunday feeds OK but from a very low position, so it's tough to tell without an actual barreled action. I'll try put together some photos when I get home. I also ordered a couple of single stack 45 mag rebuild kits from Brownells to play with. I could print a follower but sometimes the ridges on the prints catch on each other. Nothing some sanding wouldn't cure I guess...

Will be interesting what you find out on twist vs length because it should only be twist vs final velocity by my understanding.

I've been wanting to try chamber and turn a barrel blank for ages so maybe this will be an excuse to finally try it.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[nseagoon]

I've seen mentioned in several places that the 308 bolt doesn't fit, hence the need to modify.

Yeah, the insert at the moment has the feed lips printed into it. I've got a new version waiting to try at home and the one I printed on Sunday feeds OK but from a very low position, so it's tough to tell without an actual barreled action. I'll try put together some photos when I get home. I also ordered a couple of single stack 45 mag rebuild kits from Brownells to play with. I could print a follower but sometimes the ridges on the prints catch on each other. Nothing some sanding wouldn't cure I guess...

Will be interesting what you find out on twist vs length because it should only be twist vs final velocity by my understanding.

I've been wanting to try chamber and turn a barrel blank for ages so maybe this will be an excuse to finally try it.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

I'll try remember to measure blank tonight. I should have 1/3 available which will only cost a box of beers and i'll have to have a look at the finished product at some point :-)

When I send it down south in May I'll get Robbie to cut the unused length in two before sending it back.

[jono035]

Perfect. Could always just get Robby to do a second one at the same time, I guess. Any idea what he was charging for that?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[nseagoon]

Perfect. Could always just get Robby to do a second one at the same time, I guess. Any idea what he was charging for that?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
my quote was less than $500 guesstimate.
That included chambering, turning barrel down, threading and headspacing and threading for suppressor.
My 303 barrel is already removed. I have a home made tool for removing the barrel from a #1mk3 I can loan if required. To remove barrel:
put barrel in vice, put wrench in receiver, apply lots of heat and lots of penetrating oil and lots of force and it eventually pops off. Be liberal with everything.

[jono035]

my quote was less than $500 guesstimate.
That included chambering, turning barrel down, threading and headspacing and threading for suppressor.
My 303 barrel is already removed. I have a home made tool for removing the barrel from a #1mk3 I can loan if required. To remove barrel:
put barrel in vice, put wrench in receiver, apply lots of heat and lots of penetrating oil and lots of force and it eventually pops off. Be liberal with everything.

That'd be really handy, thanks! I was just looking around yesterday for bits and pieces to make up something similar.

Pretty sure mines a Mk3 as well, but beyond that I'm kinda clueless on them. I've been soaking it in WD40 periodically for a few years now with the idea that at some point I'm going to want to yank the barrel out of it...

I'll grab it out of the safe and see how my next mag insert revision works out...

[jono035]

http://youtu.be/5BTQSnxLEwM

294715
294716
294717
294718

Seems to work pretty well. The latching point is short a few mm, so the mag fits nicely but can move up and down a little. That's easily solved and it seems to feed the same at the top and bottom of the magwell.

So far I've only just printed it large enough to fill the magwell to save plastic. Ultimately I'll just print a second piece as a floorplate that screws onto the base. It could end up looking either like a taller version of what it is now or like it has a 1911 mag sticking out the bottom. Either way...

At the moment it's roughly 4m of filament to print, which is about $2, I think?

I had a .22LR magazine for my Stirling that I made with a printed follower and magspring which was kind of hilarious... Probably not up to many rounds of .45ACP, but if you only wanted a 3 round mag you could probably print the whole thing. As it is, you can probably make it any size that you can get a reliable spring for (10 rounds, maybe?).

[nseagoon]

That looks very cool. I was thinking maybe build the mag like a standard 7 or 8 round 1911 mag. Could the well in the back for spent brass go the same depth as the mag? That way in the future multiple mags could be made which would make policing brass for reloading easy. And it would give something secure to grab hold of too as I'm not sure how I'll do handguard because I'm not keen to hold a suppressor or put my hands any where near it especially in early testing

[jono035]

The spring I've got coming is for a 7rd mag, yeah. The well can be whatever size and shape fits really.
I don't think its forward enough to make a regular hand hold but for testing I think it'd work out nicely.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[nseagoon]

The spring I've got coming is for a 7rd mag, yeah. The well can be whatever size and shape fits really.
I don't think its forward enough to make a regular hand hold but for testing I think it'd work out nicely.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

sweet as, I'll probably manufacture a hand guard and see if I can do something free floating, I wouldn't expect amazing accuracy as I'm planning on using a folding stock (usually they're a bit rattly and loose)

[jono035]

sweet as, I'll probably manufacture a hand guard and see if I can do something free floating, I wouldn't expect amazing accuracy as I'm planning on using a folding stock (usually they're a bit rattly and loose)

Do you think it needs to free-float for the type of useful range you're going to get out of a subsonic projectile? With a 25m zero you're going to need 300mm of hold-over for a 100m target anyway... Also an 8" barrel is going to be pretty bloody stiff, even with a big can hanging on the end. On the plus side, it looks like .45ACP ball would only drop ~100fps and about 15% of its energy over that range which is pretty reasonable.

[awa355]

In the upcoming calving season, my son will likely have the occasional calf to put down. He doesnt have a firearms licence but is going to enter the process. He wants to be able to put a calf down quickly and humanely. I passed in my licence several years ago.

He will look for a .22 rifle, but I wondered if a high powered air rifle would suffice. Or do the top end air rifles also require a licence?

[jono035]

In the upcoming calving season, my son will likely have the occasional calf to put down. He doesnt have a firearms licence but is going to enter the process. He wants to be able to put a calf down quickly and humanely. I passed in my licence several years ago.

He will look for a .22 rifle, but I wondered if a high powered air rifle would suffice. Or do the top end air rifles also require a licence?

That's a good goal to have. Any air rifle suitable for this process would likely require a firearms licence anyway.

The firearms licence process is really quite simple. Get the form and fill it out with personal details and a couple of references. I used my girlfriend and flatmate, but just ask the Police for suggestions if you don't have anyone to mind. Take the form back to them and book in for the 'Mountain Safety Course' which is really just a 'don't look down the barrel and don't point it at your mates' kind of course. Read through the arms code and memorize the 7 rules that are in there. The course is a couple of hours and then a pretty basic multi-choice questionnaire at the end. The police will then schedule a time to interview your references and check your firearms storage.

For storage, I've seen people using all sorts. The tried and true method is the standard wall mount rack. Make sure you use 4 long wood screws that go firmly into a stud and the nogs if on a timber wall. For bonus points, drill out the heads a little so you can't just unscrew them again (can easily be unscrewed by hammering a square head bit into the divot left behind). If on a concrete wall, just use a couple of smallish dynabolts. The best place is inside something like a cupboard or hidden away a bit. Mine has always just been on the wall (once on timber, once on cinder block) in my attached garage with a sheet over it. You'll get brownie points if this is in an area of the house with an alarm and if you can hide the rack behind something. If in doubt, the police are pretty helpful with regards to where is acceptable or preferred.

My sister is a vet who has routinely put down cows with .22s, but the comment she said is 'you've really got to know where to aim'. I assume it's a lot easier with a calf, though. The other thing is being aware that you can't really use the sights properly if you're closer than a couple of meters, you've got to aim high enough to adjust for how high the 'line' of the sights are compared to the line of the bore. Normally this is only about 20-30mm...

If he's not likely to be that interested in shooting then a cheap second hand bolt action with a stainless barrel would be the way to go, something like a Savage or Stirling. Failing that, the Norinco bolt action .22s are reasonable, but I'd imagine they might need a little bit more care with regards to going rusty.

[leathel]

Putting down calves with a pistol would be bloody handy.... if it was legal to carry pistols for more than target shooting... be handy for pigs as well, compact on a side holster for when required, not long and cumbersome like a rifle.... but I doubt that will ever be legal in NZ

but yes a little .22 will do the job nicely for putting down calves, open sites is what I would use, easy for close and no scope to knock around :)

[nseagoon]

Do you think it needs to free-float for the type of useful range you're going to get out of a subsonic projectile? With a 25m zero you're going to need 300mm of hold-over for a 100m target anyway... Also an 8" barrel is going to be pretty bloody stiff, even with a big can hanging on the end. On the plus side, it looks like .45ACP ball would only drop ~100fps and about 15% of its energy over that range which is pretty reasonable.

it's going to be easier to free float I think. the hand guard will have to be cut out or a custom one made, if there's no wood then it doesn't have to be bedded either. in saying that judging by the quality of the rifle I have I believe it was sporterised using an angle grinder I'm sure I can't do any worse to it by trying to fit a hand guard. I'll try attach it using the front screw for the magwell. that's the forward most point I'll have available.

[nseagoon]

further to the last comments about getting your licence, storage and shooting calves. The process as stated is straight forward and simple to pass as long as you have browsed the arms code booklet and know the 7 basic safety rules.

for storage other options some arms officers approve are, a chain around rafters in the roof space, another is a chain around the hot water cylinder. in both instances the chain goes through the trigger guards, pulled tight, then padlocked.
the advantages of these areas is they are usually the driest places in the house and you don't have to worry about rot or rust as much.
If installing a safe into concrete I'd actually suggest self tapping concrete screws/ anka screws. you just drill a hole in the concrete and then pop the bolt through the safe into the hole and tighten with a spanner (firmly, don't overtighten). there's no lasting damage to concrete, just the hole. they are very strong and in some ways stronger than chemset or dynabolts if mounted properly.
when it comes time to move you just pop the bolts out with a spanner, no grinding to do and no bits of steel sticking out of the ground, they are great for mounting on the corner of a concrete pad as they dont push out and risk cracking.
if buying a safe check with local arms officer first. some don't approve cabinets or certain thin steel safes. I'd also suggest if money allows buying a bigger safe than you think is required. once you start getting multiple rifles and shotguns they fill up fast and as a general rule the number of guns the safe is designed to hold is usually half of what the manufacturer says (10 gun safe = 5 gun safe once you start adding scopes, sights, slings etc)

for a rifle a .22 will do the trick. some people use more powerful calibres but I'd advise against that as more power doesn't greaten the chance of killing the animal, only shooting the right spot will. also a larger calibre is louder which can unnerve other animals and is bad for hearing. they also have higher penetration power which increases the risk of the bullet ricocheting and hitting a person or another animal. if shooting less than 15m/point blank then use open sights, not a scope so no there's no parallax error. some guys either drawer or imagine a cross on the forehead from horn to opposite eye, where the two lines cross that's where to aim (some do it with a hammer if animal is docile enough)
and as stated any .22 will do the trick and being on a farm in the mud and rain the stainless suggestion is a very good idea but that's no excuse to not clean it after every use :-)

[nseagoon]

Putting down calves with a pistol would be bloody handy.... if it was legal to carry pistols for more than target shooting... be handy for pigs as well, compact on a side holster for when required, not long and cumbersome like a rifle.... but I doubt that will ever be legal in NZ

but yes a little .22 will do the job nicely for putting down calves, open sites is what I would use, easy for close and no scope to knock around :)

I believe you can use a handgun for hunting in Australia. The only gun law they have that is better than ours and makes sense.

[sAsLEX]

A hammer to the head works on small livestock.

A good swing as there should be as much energy as a bullet, just feed it some milk and whammo.

[awa355]

Thanks for the answers. Turns out, he is going to start the licence process next week. Wish he'd told me before I posted this query.

[jono035]

Thanks for the answers. Turns out, he is going to start the licence process next week. Wish he'd told me before I posted this query.

No worries, maybe it'll prove to be useful information for someone else in the future :)

Glad to hear he decided to get his licence.

[nseagoon]

That'd be really handy, thanks! I was just looking around yesterday for bits and pieces to make up something similar.

Pretty sure mines a Mk3 as well, but beyond that I'm kinda clueless on them. I've been soaking it in WD40 periodically for a few years now with the idea that at some point I'm going to want to yank the barrel out of it...

I'll grab it out of the safe and see how my next mag insert revision works out...

you should be able to see what model it is on the band that the front of the butt stock sits in. the bolt knob covers it when closed. mine has a crown, G.R.I 1944 then no.1 Mk.III written below it. if it's not there it's probably made in a different factory and etched somewhere else on the action or it's worn off.

This shows the tool I have and how it fits on the action where the barrel screws in
294843

here's the end of the barrel blank. I've finally had a chance to take it out and measure it. it's 74cm or a smidgen over 29 inches. the surface is an unusual reddy colour (a coating, obviously not rust) but it's made from 416 stainless
294844

the diameter for the 303 barrel is about 3cm where it widens from the threads and the 45 blank is just over 3cm diameter and it should be able to be turned right down to save a ton of weight.
294845294846294847

[jono035]

you should be able to see what model it is on the band that the front of the butt stock sits in. the bolt knob covers it when closed. mine has a crown, G.R.I 1944 then no.1 Mk.III written below it. if it's not there it's probably made in a different factory and etched somewhere else on the action or it's worn off.

This shows the tool I have and how it fits on the action where the barrel screws in
294843

here's the end of the barrel blank. I've finally had a chance to take it out and measure it. it's 74cm or a smidgen over 29 inches. the surface is an unusual reddy colour (a coating, obviously not rust) but it's made from 416 stainless
294844

the diameter for the 303 barrel is about 3cm where it widens from the threads and the 45 blank is just over 3cm diameter and it should be able to be turned right down to save a ton of weight.
294845294846294847

Looks good to me!

I'm still contemplating taking a shot at chambering it myself by hand. You really don't have to remove much metal for a straight walled cartridge and reamers are reasonably cheap. Turning down the barrel is probably the main thing I'd be worried about, as the lathe I've got access to doesn't have a follow steady. I figure for a 10" barrel and the type of cuts I'd be making by hand, it could just be mounted with the muzzle shoved into a live center and then crowned after profiling...

Either way, could be a fun project :) I'm thinking 11"-12" in order to keep it above legal minimum without the can on would be the least hassle... I can always cross-drill ports if the length proves to be an issue from a load workup point of view, but it should result in lower muzzle pressure anyway.

The density of 316 is 8g/cc so a 30mm diameter barrel with an 11.5mm hole down the middle weighs about 500g for every 100mm of length... That means the entire blank should weigh about 3.5kg? A 300mm barrel would weigh 1.5kg without profiling... Jeez, yeah, there's a bit of weight to be shaved off there...

[Mr Merde]

Looks good to me!



The density of 316 is 8g/cc so a 30mm diameter barrel with an 11.5mm hole down the middle weighs about 500g for every 100mm of length... That means the entire blank should weigh about 3.5kg? A 300mm barrel would weigh 1.5kg without profiling... Jeez, yeah, there's a bit of weight to be shaved off there...

Jono , what about making the barrel out of a lighter material and running a liner down the barrel.

[jono035]

That'd normally be an option but in this case I'm hoping to snag a piece of the offcut for nseagoon's barrel. I figure that worst case I can just mount it as is, test for accuracy and then turn the barrel down to see if it changes. My goal is really just a cool possuming gun, so accuracy of an inch at 25m would be plenty.

[nseagoon]

That'd normally be an option but in this case I'm hoping to snag a piece of the offcut for nseagoon's barrel. I figure that worst case I can just mount it as is, test for accuracy and then turn the barrel down to see if it changes. My goal is really just a cool possuming gun, so accuracy of an inch at 25m would be plenty.

I can't garantee the chance of success but if I have any barrel left over I can get the machinists at work to have a go at profiling.
They do aircraft quality parts so I'm assuming it would work as they have to operate to a thou tolerance.

but whether it would be successful I can't say as I'm not a machinist.
that would leave you to just chamber and thread.
if you ported the barrel it could act as a in built brake for a home build suppressor and reduce rise when unsuppressed

[Akzle]

Putting down calves with a pistol would be bloody handy.... if it was legal to carry pistols for more than target shooting... be handy for pigs as well, compact on a side holster for when required, not long and cumbersome like a rifle.... but I doubt that will ever be legal in NZ

but yes a little .22 will do the job nicely for putting down calves, open sites is what I would use, easy for close and no scope to knock around :)

764mm .410 shotty. Saw a few for sale while back but seem not to be in vogue. Good piggin gun with solids.

[Pickle]

I believe you can use a handgun for hunting in Australia. The only gun law they have that is better than ours and makes sense.

Need a special licence to own a pistol in Aussie also must attend a number of club meetings per year, other than that pistols fairly cheap here

[Pickle]

764mm .410 shotty. Saw a few for sale while back but seem not to be in vogue. Good piggin gun with solids.

410's very popular here in Aussie, good snake gun. I currently have a Rossi 410 single shot

[nseagoon]

That'd normally be an option but in this case I'm hoping to snag a piece of the offcut for nseagoon's barrel. I figure that worst case I can just mount it as is, test for accuracy and then turn the barrel down to see if it changes. My goal is really just a cool possuming gun, so accuracy of an inch at 25m would be plenty.

I've finally asked and vulcan the .45acp barrel is a 16" twist

[sAsLEX]

Its too quiet around here ....

For all Remington 700 owners http://xmprecall.remington.com/pdfs/xmprecall-notice.pdf and http://xmprecall.remington.com/ no one has ever liked those triggers and this will just add fuel to the fire.


I am now all set up for reloading, spent a little bit and have got a Lee Classic press set up with Lock'n'Load conversion for the dies, OAL gauges, tumblers, and a few hundred Lapua brass and projectiles to start with ........ however this all has to wait till I get back to NZ as I am not licensed here.

Also have a new chassis on its way for the rifle so going to be a busy time on RTNZ setting that up and starting the reloading obsession!

[Swoop]

http://xmprecall.remington.com/pdfs/xmprecall-notice.pdf
I wonder why Americans have 10 commandments of firearms safety and we have 7...
http://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/Files/20111219---media-rabbit-hunter-death.pdf

It seems Americans are allowed to be using alcohol when shootin'...:rolleyes:

[Swoop]

What the hell is happening with the Gun Shed in Mt Eden?
Popped in for a perv and drool session and the place is crap! Only a few guns on the walls and really not very much of interest there. A far cry from what it used to be.

[nseagoon]

What the hell is happening with the Gun Shed in Mt Eden?
Popped in for a perv and drool session and the place is crap! Only a few guns on the walls and really not very much of interest there. A far cry from what it used to be.

They're closing down retail and moving to wholesale supplying.
You may be able to talk them into a bargain if the dregs of what's left is interesting to you

[Swoop]

They're closing down retail and moving to wholesale supplying.
You may be able to talk them into a bargain if the dregs of what's left is interesting to you

All what is left on their walls is of little to no interest to me. Their 5.11 Tactical boots were very tempting though! $139- a pair!
I wondered whether goon city's bigger premises and FAR bigger range had impacted on gun shed.

[nseagoon]

I don't think so. I've Only used gun City once since they came here.

I went to gun City, saw it on sale at too high a price. Went to sai, then serious shooters then back to gun City.
Ended up paying 40% of their so called sale price. Usually they drop out of the haggling game early though.

As I said see if you can talk them down. You may be surprised.

[Akzle]

nzhunter.com are having a sale. get some fucking optics and shit.

[sAsLEX]

Spent the day here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ROF_Radway_Green

Not quite sure I can reload at the rate the machines were doing it there, pretty amazing how fast brass, copper, lead and steel and transformed into full rounds!

[jono035]

Wow, that'd be a pretty awesome tour. I've spent quite a lot of time talking to Richard at Serious Shooters about the high-volume reloading equipment he has seen running, it'd be cool to actually see some of it.

[Drunken Monkey]

Free brass to a good home. About 70 or so spent .308's, maybe a dozen spend .243's mixed in with them. Fired once from new, not used to reload. Prefer pickup from Mt Wellington, shipping is a PITA.

[Akzle]

Free brass to a good home. About 70 or so spent .308's, maybe a dozen spend .243's mixed in with them. Fired once from new, not used to reload. Prefer pickup from Mt Wellington, shipping is a PITA.

can you drop them in pakuranga or onehunga?
What brand 308?

[Drunken Monkey]

Sorry, nseagoon beat you to it. Notwithstanding if I had to make the effort to take them somewhere, the only place I'd be taking them is the bin.

[Swoop]

Some entertainment for the masses!<_<


http://rare.us/story/this-gun-instructors-skills-will-blow-your-mind/


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gMYD73YvqH4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[pritch]

Some entertainment for the masses!


That is impressive for a Glock 17. Somebody has spent some reading their ballistics tables.
Sadly here we no longer have a 300m range, only 100m.
Even so I'd still have to peruse the manuals. Maybe during the upcoming crap weather?

[sAsLEX]

That is impressive for a Glock 17. Somebody has spent some reading their ballistics tables.
Sadly here we no longer have a 300m range, only 100m.
Even so I'd still have to peruse the manuals. Maybe during the upcoming crap weather?

If you want to scratch the LR itch watch this channel - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmKvQfvjqbUakUotekAyxew

His DVD is also a fantastic watch - http://www.vertebrae.no/index.php/en/the-shop/thlr-thomas-haugland/langhallsskytte-fran-grunden-791-detail?limitstart=0&limit=int&showall=1

Surely you can find a cocky near that has a bit of space to set up some decent ranges?

[pritch]

Surely you can find a cocky near that has a bit of space to set up some decent ranges?

Not for a five inch barrel. That'd be naughty.

It's a sign of the times though, the local military 900x range was closed after an army officer went round the country closing just about everything.

A few decades ago the local muzzleloaders found an old historical military range, the farmer was friendly and the range was certified for 300x. That came to an end when the farmer decided to build a big new house on top of the backstop.

Twenty odd miles out of town in the other direction there was a longish range maybe 600x? It too was probably originally military about 100 years or more ago, but I have heard that there are problems with that now as well.

The local small bore range was closed too I believe. Only local fuctioning facility now is the pistol club, they have eight ranges, 1 x 100, 2 x 50, and some 25m.

[R650R]

It's a sign of the times though, the local military 900x range was closed after an army officer went round the country closing just about everything.



When I was in Air Cadets we used to use a small bore range underneath the Colenso High school hall. Wonder if still used the way things are now???
Regret letting my licence lapse, had just started flatting when they changed everything and the $60 was $60 we didn't have...
Now after a few years of speaking ones mind where the hell do you find two referees to say something good about you :)

[400sm]

See me on youtube :-))
.
" Norinco M14 FULL AUTO
.
Bound to get yous goin !

[pritch]

I first came across this the other day and it was lust at first sight. I posted a pic in another thread because slung across the back it would make a good addition to a cycling ensemble. Similarly, slung across the chest it'd make a great addition to my moped riding gear. The ultimate Glock accessory?

Couldn't see how you would rack the slide but apparently it has an AR15 type cocking mechanism. Haven't bothered to check the price, because even if I could afford it, I'm insufficiently creative to come up with a compelling reason to justify a permit to import.

[nseagoon]

I first came across this the other day and it was lust at first sight. I posted a pic in another thread because slung across the back it would make a good addition to a cycling ensemble. Similarly, slung across the chest it'd make a great addition to my moped riding gear. The ultimate Glock accessory?

Couldn't see how you would rack the slide but apparently it has an AR15 type cocking mechanism. Haven't bothered to check the price, because even if I could afford it, I'm insufficiently creative to come up with a compelling reason to justify a permit to import.

Looks like a sig sauer ACP stock.
Have you looked into the roni or hera carbines?

I have a roni which is a bit of fun and I managed to find one cheap.

I've thought about getting an airsoft one and adapting it to fit my 45 s&w
They are made to the same dimension just made from different materials

[Akzle]

Couldn't see how you would rack the slide but apparently it has an AR15 type cocking mechanism.

iffen it's the one liek i done did see, theres a lever poked through the stock frame that catches the slide.

fuck glocks are gay.

[pritch]

fuck glocks are gay.

Interesting. I have no idea what qualifies a handgun as gay, unless it was those little pink revolvers that S&W were trying to sell to the ladies.

Personally I can't conceive of anything in 45ACP as being particularly gay, unless maybe the carrier was wearing those bare arse chaps. But the US SEALS have Glocks and they haven't struck me as overtly gay.

So what, in the gospel according to Akzle, qualifies a gun as gay? Apart from the manufacturer being Glock of course.

[nseagoon]

Glocks are boring. The corolla of pistols.
They work. Are accurate enough but there's nothing special about them.

In saying that they are the perfect grunt gun. Slap and rack is the only sop really.

In saying that I believe the current world ipsc champ is a glock team.

[Akzle]

So what, in the gospel according to Akzle, qualifies a gun as gay? Apart from the manufacturer being Glock of course.

you've handled and fired one, right?

[Swoop]

But the US SEALS have Glocks and they haven't struck me as overtly gay.
A good percentage of GI's in Afghanistan ditched their issue Beretta and replaced it with a glock... out of their own money.
Something that goes "bang" when you want it to do so, is rather important in a combat situation.

[pritch]

you've handled and fired one, right?

Of course. The Glock does what it is supposed to do and does it very well, the brand has been hugely successful. They must be doing something right.
It certainly isn't a target pistol though. If you wanted a specialist target pistol you would get something different, depending on what sort of targets you wanted to aim at.
To compare the trigger on a Glock to the trigger on a target pistol would be pointless. Horses for courses and all that.

[sAsLEX]

Of course. The Glock does what it is supposed to do and does it very well, the brand has been hugely successful. They must be doing something right.
.

Yip - Winning Govt. Tenders.

[Akzle]

Of course. The Glock does what it is supposed to do and does it very well, the brand has been hugely successful. They must be doing something right.
It certainly isn't a target pistol though. If you wanted a specialist target pistol you would get something different, depending on what sort of targets you wanted to aim at.
To compare the trigger on a Glock to the trigger on a target pistol would be pointless. Horses for courses and all that.

you didnt find it... Bulky? Awkward? Unbalanced at the end of a clip? Just....so much plastic? And with far, far too many 'safety features'?

[Akzle]

A good percentage of GI's in Afghanistan ditched their issue Beretta and replaced it with a glock... out of their own money.
Something that goes "bang" when you want it to do so, is rather important in a combat situation.

despite being a huge non-fan of 9mm, the m92 is a nice pistol. Would i trust my life to one?
Im torn between
http://images.knifecenter.com/thumb/1500x1500/knifecenter/condor/images/CN49013HCa.jpg
and
http://www.imfdb.org/images/2/2e/Navy51S.jpg

[unstuck]

Thought the Navy was a Ladies gun?

[Akzle]

Thought the Navy was a Ladies gun?

explains why i got mine from your mum :bleh:
the other option is a peacemaker, but thats a bit cliche.
Or more recently a sw k frame 586. But thats a bit posh.

[unstuck]

I like the peacemaker.:ar15:

I need a derringer though.:drool:

[Akzle]

I need a derringer though.:drool:

something to keep in your garters?

[unstuck]

Yes, so the clients are not too keen to take advantage of my palestinian bred goat.:whistle:

[pritch]

you didnt find it... Bulky? Awkward? Unbalanced at the end of a clip? Just....so much plastic? And with far, far too many 'safety features'?

Bulky? Yes. It holds a double stack of 45s which makes it just a tad bigger than I need. It seems to have exactly the right number of safety features, it can't fire unless you pull the trigger, but if you do pull the trigger it will fire. The plastic doesn't bother me and most of the firearms I've owned have had rather more ummm history (?).

Martini Henry, 1853 Snider conversion, sundry underleaver English shotguns. A Colt (Tm) 3rd model Dragoon, Colt Python, an FWB Rogers & Spencer, a Ruger Old Army and a Ruger Bisley. After owning those, all of which revolve to the right the way God intended, I disqualify myself from ever owning an arse backward S&W or clone thereof. There were also a couple of muzzle loading pistols neither of which were made in Italy. That is not, however, a complete list.

I'm a Beretta admirer, I have owned two target shotguns and their muzzle loader. They seem to have exemplary after sales service; a collector I knew bought a WW2 era Beretta pistol with a missing spring. He wrote the company a letter asking for a drawing of the spring or such other detail as would let him make one. They sent him the required spring free of charge by return post.

A kukhri? Interesting. I have a couple of touristy ones rusting away here somewhere, but for a time, in another place, I had a kukhri formation patch sewn to my sleeve.

After all that I wanted to try a modern handgun and Glock seemed to tick most boxes. If you think that's gay fine.

Saslex, long time no see.

[sAsLEX]

Saslex, long time no see.

Trying to write a thesis on the laser ignition of insensitive explosives........ more fun than it sounds!

[pritch]

Trying to write a thesis on the laser ignition of insensitive explosives........ more fun than it sounds!

Do you get to conduct experiments?:devil2:

[Akzle]

After all that I wanted to try a modern handgun and Glock seemed to tick most boxes. If you think that's gay fine.
.

you aint hip with the lingo daddy-o,

gay is now a generic pejorative. As you say, strokes for folks.

I will probably never, ever, buy a glock. Unless i had every other gun in the world, and needed it to complete my collection. But theres a ton of gayer guns that i dont want either.

I am south paw, not that minor things like that actually bother me at all. Although it probably will now youve mentioned it. Damn you.

[The Pastor]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11273361

anyone in the market for cheap guns?

[nseagoon]

Oooh a parkerdale safari! Lol must be one of a kind.... The only one with a spelling mistake

[unstuck]

anyone in the market for cheap guns?

I'll have the 30-06 please.;)

[pritch]

Howzat?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/10151722/Police-admit-firearms-blunder

[Akzle]

Howzat?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/10151722/Police-admit-firearms-blunder

"The police
regularly used the pistol club for practice"
what a crock of shit.
Cops suck at guns.

[caseye]

So far as I can tell from media reports, this "massive cache" of guns, amounts to 18, mostly shotties and some very fine collectables. Wished they'd just report the facts instead of making up stories.
Hang on, we're in NZ, aye.

[pritch]

"The police
regularly used the pistol club for practice"
what a crock of shit.
Cops suck at guns.



The Police collectively use the range regularly, individuals perhaps less so. Unless of course "annually" qualifies as regularly. And that was before their budget was frozen.


Cops with guns? Reminds me of Wellington's quote. " I don't know what effect these men will have on the enemy, but by God they frighten me."

[Swoop]

New Plymouth Pistol Club president Ron Price said that in the club's experience police were extremely careful with their firearms. The police regularly used the pistol club for practice and adhered to the club's strict protocols.

Ron, you are a brave man letting them use a club range.
The blue gang has burned many bridges around the greater Auckland area, ruining ranges, damaging property and getting a worse name for themselves.
Hence, they had to build their own range complex in an old warehouse in South Auckland.

[pritch]

Hence, they had to build their own range complex in an old warehouse in South Auckland.

Fitted with adequate ventilation and regularly tested for lead contamination to comply with OSH requirements of course?

[Swoop]

Fitted with adequate ventilation and regularly tested for lead contamination to comply with OSH requirements of course?
Let's not even mention how such a facility could be possibly approved by the council...

[sAsLEX]

Let's not even mention how such a facility could be possibly approved by the council...

Especially with Youthtown closing.....

[nseagoon]

That'd normally be an option but in this case I'm hoping to snag a piece of the offcut for nseagoon's barrel. I figure that worst case I can just mount it as is, test for accuracy and then turn the barrel down to see if it changes. My goal is really just a cool possuming gun, so accuracy of an inch at 25m would be plenty.


Had a talk to robbie tiffen the other day. He's a bit snowed under with business at the moment so I won't be sending the rifle in for conversion until August.

[jono035]

Had a talk to robbie tiffen the other day. He's a bit snowed under with business at the moment so I won't be sending the rifle in for conversion until August.

Damnit.

I bought a JR carbine in .45ACP the other day that I was hoping to send down to him to have some magic worked on it.

Just waiting on my E so I can shift that and the AR to it.

[Swoop]

So...
The plastic crap is on the way out.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11278332
FFS, just put them in the green recycling bin.

Time to get something decent.

[jono035]

I'm sure they will just end up destroying them. I'd love one, though. Not for any particular reason other than they're a neat configuration.

[nseagoon]

Another example of non bias nz media.
Not everyone hates it. The same would be with any platform.
The article says it's underpowered. A replacement won't fix that as the replacement will also be 5.56.
It's not a bad platform the rifles are just getting old as anything does.

As for rumour Mill and speculation I have two guesses for the new platform.

Thales new steyr. No new training required for operating and the infrastructure is in place to run the new rifles such as magazines and tools.
It has a flat top and rails allowing for modern sights and any weaver configuration. Something that wasn't available when the current steyr was produced.
They also have removable grenade launchers. Current ones are dedicated.

The other guess is an AR15 platform. There are so many variations to choose.
LMT already makes the designated marksman rifle so they would be a contender for the contract.
They also have interchangeable gas impingement and piston ability so that would be a good balance between less weight and removing the theoretical impingement issues.

The biggest advantage with an ar platform would be potential extra availability of stanag magazines on the market :-D

Also for the pistol apparently the tender has already finished and they are going with the glock 17.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Anyone have an old SMLE butt lying around ?
I'm rebuilding a 1941 Lithgow no.1 mk 111 and I'm short an original butt
Cheers

No worries, Tardme came through !

[oldguy]

If they find it they will play with it.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/qKHeXC7L85s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Joemac]

Anyone have an old SMLE butt lying around ?
I'm rebuilding a 1941 Lithgow no.1 mk 111 and I'm short an original butt
Cheers

No worries, Tardme came through !

You still after .303 parts? I have an old one I am trying to get rid of.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Sure am
What do you have ?

[Joemac]

Sure am
What do you have ?

1941 S.M.L.E.. sporterised, matching bits. I had it on Tardme for a while, but didn't get much interest. I used to hunt with it, but use a husky 6.5 now.

[nseagoon]

Hello. I'm a newbie on the forum, but I have something to show :rolleyes:
Shipping from Holland from my friend. Someone says that it is illegal to have such a weapon - I would say that in our world there are many illegal, such as marijuana. But people smoke...

Are they operational with live ammunition?
If not then they're legal just don't wave them round in public

[jono035]

delivered with a locked firing mechanism, but the lock is easily removed. dutch brothers not only can smoke :2thumbsup

Nice looking pieces. What license category are you going to hold them under? I'd imagine the mini Uzi is going to have to be C cat, but the Beretta could be B or C?

[jono035]

Had my E-cat license come through. I've put both the AR-15 and the JR Carbine on it, so that's pretty cool. Just gotta get myself a couple of high cap .45ACP glock mags, now!

[The Pastor]

carry such weapons on the street I'm not going. it is home. bought just in case you might ever need. received in the post as a normal parcel without a license, as the weapon was not firearm. after a little modification at home - firearm. about the license - I do not know what a license is required for uzi

haha, your not the 1st to do something like this, but its really not a smart idea to post this online..... might pay to edit your posts.

[Hans]

Looks more like the cops are trying to troll us. No one else could be this stupid, surely.

[nseagoon]

Lol yeah just A troll.
Good for him. I was suspicious when I replied because of his language and mannerism.

Being closed bolt and a micro uzi it may be a locked semi auto

[Hans]

I can just see mr. Plod speaking with a fake accent and thinking he can entrap someone on here into trying to buy that shit.

[nseagoon]

Had my E-cat license come through. I've put both the AR-15 and the JR Carbine on it, so that's pretty cool. Just gotta get myself a couple of high cap .45ACP glock mags, now!

Congratulations. I wonder if glock snail mags can fit in the jr magwell

[Gremlin]

Lol yeah just A troll.
Good for him. I was suspicious when I replied because of his language and mannerism.

Being closed bolt and a micro uzi it may be a locked semi auto

ancomp is posting from Russia.

[Indiana_Jones]

http://www.tiptopsigns.com/images/D/jdm_meme_lol.jpg

-Indy

[jono035]

Congratulations. I wonder if glock snail mags can fit in the jr magwell

Is there a beta-C mag for .45ACP that fits the glocks? If so, I'll definitely have to try it. The mag sticks way out the bottom of the magwell, so I'm sure if it fits a regular full size Glock frame, it'll fit the JR...

That would be an interesting find, I'd guess they're hellishly expensive here, though.

I remember seeing packs of 10 Magpul P-mags in the states for something like $50 on special and when I was in Reloaders earlier I noticed that they had them listed at $200 each... What the dickens?!

[nseagoon]

Is there a beta-C mag for .45ACP that fits the glocks? If so, I'll definitely have to try it. The mag sticks way out the bottom of the magwell, so I'm sure if it fits a regular full size Glock frame, it'll fit the JR...

That would be an interesting find, I'd guess they're hellishly expensive here, though.

I remember seeing packs of 10 Magpul P-mags in the states for something like $50 on special and when I was in Reloaders earlier I noticed that they had them listed at $200 each... What the dickens?!

I haven't seen 45 snail mags but I'm sure they're out there and I'm guessing close to $1000 if found in NZ because people are dicks.

Serious shooters are too expensive as well.
They imported their mags back when they needed ahand in.
The funny thing is they bought in mags for a mossburg bolt rifle that fits ar mags and sell them cheaper than tin colt ar mags because the mossburg being a cat the parts didn't require a hand in.

NZAR15 sells or had for sale gen 3 pmags for just under $100 and 20 rounders for just over. Probably the best deal brand new from a dealer in NZ.

No one knows why but brownells refuses to export magpull stuff citing some agreement that no one's heard about

[jono035]

I haven't seen 45 snail mags but I'm sure they're out there and I'm guessing close to $1000 if found in NZ because people are dicks.

Serious shooters are too expensive as well.
They imported their mags back when they needed ahand in.
The funny thing is they bought in mags for a mossburg bolt rifle that fits ar mags and sell them cheaper than tin colt ar mags because the mossburg being a cat the parts didn't require a hand in.

NZAR15 sells or had for sale gen 3 pmags for just under $100 and 20 rounders for just over. Probably the best deal brand new from a dealer in NZ.

No one knows why but brownells refuses to export magpull stuff citing some agreement that no one's heard about

Ah right. $100 a pop is still a pretty hefty markup but if it's the best option then fair enough, I guess.

I've run into that with something from Brownells before, actually. Can't remember what it was, Burris gear perhaps? Either way, that's pretty sad because you could get a lot of mags into the same shipment within the $100 limit...

[Akzle]

Ah right. $100 a pop is still a pretty hefty markup but if it's the best option then fair enough, I guess.

I've run into that with something from Brownells before, actually. Can't remember what it was, Burris gear perhaps? Either way, that's pretty sad because you could get a lot of mags into the same shipment within the $100 limit...

try a plainjane 10 rd .22 anschutz.

130$!!
Each!

[Joemac]

Sure am
What do you have ?

I've had a few goes at sending you a pm without any joy.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

I've had a few goes at sending you a pm without any joy.

Just checked and they have come through
Sent you a reply by PM, cheers

[jasonu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCvjoFPD5Kg

Missing the first 20 minutes or so.

[Akzle]

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/12-ga-hell-126971/


guh :D

[The Pastor]

Not the right place for this, (but hey, shoot me)

http://www.nmusafvirtualtour.com/media/062/B-36J%20Engineer.html

pretty cool.

[jasonu]

Rock River Arms AR15 5.56 NATO
Xmas prezzie from my wife.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Very nice :love:
You'll need to reload or ammo's going to get expensive.

[jasonu]

Very nice :love:
You'll need to reload or ammo's going to get expensive.

I lookthought that too so I did a bit of investigation. I can reload for around 19 cents a shot but first I would have to buy the reloading equipment, prolly a few hundred dollars. Or, I can buy Wolf steel case ammo for 22 cents a shot if I buy it in bulk (500 to 1000 round cases). If I was shooting .308 cal reloading would make more sense but for the extra 3 cents a shot I will stick to the Wolf ammo unless something changes.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

I lookthought that too so I did a bit of investigation. I can reload for around 19 cents a shot but first I would have to buy the reloading equipment, prolly a few hundred dollars. Or, I can buy Wolf steel case ammo for 22 cents a shot if I buy it in bulk (500 to 1000 round cases). If I was shooting .308 cal reloading would make more sense but for the extra 3 cents a shot I will stick to the Wolf ammo unless something changes.

That makes good economic sense.:2thumbsup
Could you reload the Wolf cases?

[Akzle]

1) milsurp ammo dude.
2) no you cant reload steel (case sizing)
3) check the primers man, they might be barrel eaters.
4) 5x56/.223 is a cunt of a case to reload in serious numbers -fiddly.

[jasonu]

1) milsurp ammo dude.
2) no you cant reload steel (case sizing)
3) check the primers man, they might be barrel eaters.
4) 5x56/.223 is a cunt of a case to reload in serious numbers -fiddly.

1. Correct
2. Correct
3. Check the primers for what exactly?
4. That's what I have heard too. I think my time is better spent shooting the shit out of tin cans and is worth more than the 3 cents a shot I might save.

[scumdog]

I lookthought that too so I did a bit of investigation. I can reload for around 19 cents a shot but first I would have to buy the reloading equipment, prolly a few hundred dollars. Or, I can buy Wolf steel case ammo for 22 cents a shot if I buy it in bulk (500 to 1000 round cases). If I was shooting .308 cal reloading would make more sense but for the extra 3 cents a shot I will stick to the Wolf ammo unless something changes.

I buy components in bulk when they are on special.
And bludge off my mate with 308 reloading gear.

Cheap as chips!:2thumbsup

[jasonu]

I buy components in bulk when they are on special.
And bludge off my mate with 308 reloading gear.

Cheap as chips!:2thumbsup

I can do the same. My mate has all the necessary equipment that I can use but it still is only SLIGHTLY cheaper to reload. Believe me I spent a day at work investigating all options.
What do you guys pay for factory .223/5.56 ammo in NZ?

[Akzle]

berdan, mercury, ammonia, jews.

[Akzle]

also, yankee doodle, your time aint worth shit.
Load me up some. 30 grains of ball behind an 80g sp and send them over.
Sharpish.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

$35-40.00 for 20 rounds
The good thing about reloading is you can customise a round specifically for your rifle.
The projectile I use isn't available in a factory load.

[Akzle]

$35-40.00 for 20 rounds
The good thing about reloading is you can customise a round specifically for your rifle.
The projectile I use isn't available in a factory load.

you reload 20 cal??

An ar15 isnt fussy.

If you had a nice rifle and you were comp to 1000 yds, maybe. Other than that, i'll stand by, fuck loading that.

[Akzle]

also, buy in multiples of 000. Makes it a cheaper.
Just smile politely when the cops turn up.

[jasonu]

$35-40.00 for 20 rounds
The good thing about reloading is you can customise a round specifically for your rifle.
The projectile I use isn't available in a factory load.

Blaaaahhhh $2.00 A SHOT. Are you shooting gold projectiles or summat???
I'm just out to do a bit of plinking and such so no need for anything fancy (expensive).

[frogfeaturesFZR]

you can pick up military surplus stuff cheaper, accuracy ain't that great.
Depends what you're shooting at...

[Swoop]

you can pick up military surplus stuff cheaper, accuracy ain't that great.
Depends what you're shooting at...
"Mil surplus" is bloody difficult to find at good prices. Thank the lunatics who signed us up to the non-proliferation of arms crap, which prevents bolt actioned Remington police rifles from being sold to the public, along with ex-army ammo.
Fucking leftist cockfaggots!
5.56 used to be 21c per round.

[Akzle]

"Mil surplus" is bloody difficult to find at good prices. Thank the lunatics who signed us up to the non-proliferation of arms crap, which prevents bolt actioned Remington police rifles from being sold to the public, along with ex-army ammo.
Fucking leftist cockfaggots!
5.56 used to be 21c per round.

yuh

in vietnam

[jasonu]

"Mil surplus" is bloody difficult to find at good prices.

5.56 used to be 21c per round.

Still is more or less.
http://sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammunition/223-556mm

[Swoop]

Still is more or less.
http://sgammo.com/catalog/rifle-ammunition/223-556mm

Not in NZ though.
The bare cost of the metal is one factor (thanks china...) and the other is the "USA factor" which consists of import/export regulations, political situation (driving up paranoia and demand), supply due to previous, primers (gah!!), cases, and so-forth.
This could be offset by our public servants selling off to the general public, the past-the-best-shelf-life ammo, but thanks to the sandal-wearing weird beards, the UN and heilen Klerke's retarded faggotry BS, that is no longer kosher.

[Katman]

Too good not to share.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/C_MFSD_UoEE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[nseagoon]

yeah all Aussies really just accepted it....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGq-VWQCEG4

as for his mention about assault rifles, I'm guessing he means 'assault weapons' which is a misnomer name made up in order to regulate sporting firearms that are cosmetically similar to other types, just like the term MSSA only exists in NZ.

sporting semi autos are not assault rifles/weapons, but I do agree with with rights does come responsibilities.

Firearms have many sporting and hunting uses not like what this so called comedian has decided for himself, he would have probably been funny if he'd used fact and context. although I guess he's just doing all that for the audience though.

[Swoop]

Too good not to share.
Another classic example of retardoid spasticus internetus non-factualus.

[Mr Merde]

1) milsurp ammo dude.
2) no you cant reload steel (case sizing)
3) check the primers man, they might be barrel eaters.
4) 5x56/.223 is a cunt of a case to reload in serious numbers -fiddly.

Your 4th point has struck a note with me.
I agree if you are loading using a single stage press then it can be fiddly but with a quality progressive and good dies you can churn out high numbers of rounds in a relatively short time.

Limited by components.

I load most of my calibers on a single stage cos I am anal about tolerances but if I had a semi in .223 I would use a progressive.
The hardest part is setting up the dies. Once done you could remov stoere the die head and store, never having to adjust again.

My 2c worth

Chris

[jono035]

Your 4th point has struck a note with me.
I agree if you are loading using a single stage press then it can be fiddly but with a quality progressive and good dies you can churn out high numbers of rounds in a relatively short time.

Limited by components.

I load most of my calibers on a single stage cos I am anal about tolerances but if I had a semi in .223 I would use a progressive.
The hardest part is setting up the dies. Once done you could remov stoere the die head and store, never having to adjust again.

My 2c worth

Chris

100% agreed. As with anything to do with reloading, it all comes down to making the right choices on equipment and how you spend your time.

If you're reloading 20-50x rounds at a time for hunting at the maximum effective range of the cartridge then do it with a decent single stage, take the time to meter the powder accurately (I'm convinced this is the #1 issue with progressives being considered less accurate) and check all your cases for runout etc.

If you want to bash a couple of hundred rounds off in a day, are you really going to be doing it for max accuracy at max range? Doesn't seem likely, you'd be there all freakin day or shooting from a sled.

Ignoring case prep, primer handling and post load cleanup, I can get nearly 1k/hr .45ACP through an XL650 with my bullet feeder. I shoot with a guy who gets nearly half that with .223 and no bullet feeder. Next thing I'm going to play with is getting the .223 to play nicely with the bullet feeder.


On an unrelated note, I've moved out to Waiatarua and there are a shitload of bikes going past at the moment. Didn't catch what just went past but it was some guy with a sidecar giving it hell, nice.

[Katman]

Another classic example of retardoid spasticus internetus non-factualus.

You like guns - I get that.

[jono035]

you reload 20 cal??

What is 20 cal? I assume you mean .223. Unless you're talking about 6mm in which case EVERYONE reloads it.

An ar15 isnt fussy.

If you had a nice rifle and you were comp to 1000 yds, maybe. Other than that, i'll stand by, fuck loading that.

I disagree.

An AR-15 will fire just about anything, but some of the cheaper crappier ammo can really foul one up. In that case it's time spent reloading to save time cleaning.

Also, as with any gun, you'll get much better results with hand-loaded ammo if you're really keen because you're tuning for things like condition of the threading, amount and stroke length of reciprocating mass and to avoid barrel resonances.

You can get close by carefully testing multiple types of ammo, but that's not likely to leave you picking the cheapest one. You can get the cheapest and just live with the results (probably what I'd do). Alternatively, you can get setup to reload and get the best of both worlds, while saving money to boot.

As per usual, a lot of assertions here without numbers behind them.

From a quick look on Reloaders it looks like you can get below $0.50 per round without too much trouble, that's buying things in the 100-1000 quantity. It does assume you've got a source of brass, but basically if it's cheaper than new ammo, you've always got a source of brass right there.

Best I could see is some remanufactured Belmont ammo at $0.88 each. I'm not sure I'd consider that a good candidate for reloading from, though. I've been having a mare sorting some loose-primer brass out from a batch of .45 given to me by a friend who shoots factory reloaded ammo. Everything else is $1 each or more, although not in any great quantities.

Anyone got any accurate and recent numbers for .223 bought in ~1k+ quantities?

[jono035]

You like guns - I get that.

Haven't watched the video you linked yet (just getting through Christmas backlog) but yeah, he does.

Also, that guy in the video probably just doesn't.

Both sides of the coin tend to be pretty blinkered when it comes to the issue. Sometimes it literally just comes down to some people like guns and will ignore anything said by someone who doesn't like guns. The converse is equally common, if not moreso.

edit: Amusingly, the guy in the video says that he just doesn't like guns, nice.

[jono035]

Just to go through the video on a point by point basis:

Biggest massacre: I don't really think he's phrasing this in a neutral fashion, but there are quite a few 'more deadly' ones listed on Wikipedia ('Rampage Killings'). These include use of firearms, melee weapons, arson, vehicles, bombings etc.

No mass killings since Port Arthur: This is true, but saying it's because of lower personal firearms ownership rates is disingenuous. Better training and response of the Police force is likely to have more to do with it, but both assertions are unsupported by any statistics, to my knowledge.

Only one reason to have a gun 'you like them': Well, that's possibly the 'best' one, but that's kind of misleading because you 'want' the gun for a myriad of reasons. Hunting, sport, protection are all reasons which are valid depending on where you live. Because he asserts otherwise doesn't make it true.

Australia said 'yeah alright' to gun restrictions: Yes, and my impression is that it hasn't done a whole lot to the ability of criminals to access firearms.

You're 80% more likely to use a gun on yourself: That's fine, that's a statistic about suicide, not firearms ownership. If removing access to firearms lowered the suicide rate, I'd consider this a valid point but I haven't seen anything that indicates this is so. It's a difficult stat to find, though, because suicide rates are very dependent on some of the same fundamentals for firearms ownership rates, such as economic background and country/location.

He gives an example where a gun wouldn't have helped: I agree that firearms for protection aren't necessarily in line with what the normal 'overwrought' power fantasy around them indicates, but statistically there are less home invasions, rapes and aggravated assaults in parts of the US that have higher firearm ownership rates (once corrected for gang activity, which is something better handled as a separate issue). One amusing anecdote (with very little information) is nothing more than a funny story, it isn't evidence of anything. There are plenty of people who attend home security conventions, these are often a large part of gun shows as well. One common product is a safe that allows quick opening in panic situations (basic 'chordal' keypads, fingerprint scanners etc.) while keeping firearms secure. One of these in a bedroom that wasn't on a ground floor would be 'ample' for a valid means of protection.

People aren't coming to murder your family, but the number of eldery people who get killed or seriously injured by disturbing an intruder is noticeably large. Elderly women being battered and raped doesn't make for good comedy, though.

Kids getting access to firearms: This is part of firearms education and security. That's the main reason for firearm security in this country, to prevent kids getting access to it and playing with them. Nobody things a metal rod in a wall in a garage is going to stop a thief. Also, see my comment about in-home gun security above.

No protection in the safe: See previous comments.

Window open - ever heard of security stays? I have them on any window I leave open on ground level.

Sandy Hook comments: Wouldn't happen if the teachers have guns, yet for some reason massacres happen a lot in areas where guns aren't allowed. There are quite a few stories (if you look for them, they don't make 'good news' as much) of possible massacres being prevented. Not necessarily by being shot, but by simply not being able to move freely and act freely because other people may be in a position to use equivalent force.

He pats himself a lot for making 'good points' and claimed that he was going to only use facts. So far it's mostly anecdotes etc. that I've seen, but he's amusing so we'll let it slide.

Constitution: Good points made, not really relevant, though. Of course the US could change it if there was enough support for it.

Slavery vs Guns: Really? I don't think you're going to find anything worthwhile in this as a real argument. Comparing the control and 'ownership' over another persons life with the access and use of a specific purpose tool is practically the definition of a strawman argument.

There's a few more minutes to go but my deck isn't going to waterblast itself so gotta get back to it.

[jasonu]

Too good not to share.



A couple of laughs in there but mostly a bunch of stories with no facts or figures to back them up. Plus I'm not really into comedians that use comedy to push a personal agenda.
Hardly 'too good not to share'.

[Katman]

A couple of laughs in there but mostly a bunch of stories with no facts or figures to back them up.

What was the percentage likelihood of using it on yourself?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/LS53OYmHktY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jono035]

What was the percentage likelihood of using it on yourself?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/LS53OYmHktY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

As compared to the number of people killed or seriously injured due to their own mistakes while using cars, industrial equipment, farming equipment, ladders etc. or (gasp) motorbikes? Probably pretty low. Then again, we don't really get videos of people dying after falling sideways off a ladder that wasn't secured and go 'we clearly need to ban ladders'.

That guy is ignoring quite a few of the fundamental aspects that get covered in basic holster draw and replace training.

[Akzle]

Australia said 'yeah alright' to gun restrictions: Yes, and my impression is that it hasn't done a whole lot to the ability of criminals to access firearms.

You're 80% more likely to use a gun on yourself: That's fine, that's a statistic about suicide, not firearms ownership. If removing access to firearms lowered the suicide rate,

He gives an example where a gun wouldn't have helped: I agree that firearms for protection aren't necessarily in line with what the normal 'overwrought' power fantasy around them indicates, but statistically there are less home invasions, rapes and aggravated assaults in parts of the US that have higher firearm ownership rates

Kids getting access to firearms: This is part of firearms education and security.

Sandy Hook comments: Wouldn't happen if the teachers have guns, yet for some reason massacres happen a lot in areas where guns aren't allowed.

didnt watch vid.
1- straya DID NOT WANT the arms bill, by about 8 to 2 vote. (in the MONTH preceeding the 'attack')
Suddenly, *gun crime*, media hype, 'halp me halp me save our soul' denizenry, and now, support, but only 7 to 3 at the vote. Enough, though: gun amnesty, disarmed population, and... No affect on any statistics relating to firearms.
Reeks of false flag to me.

2-guns offer an easy way out with a high % mortality rate compared to hangings, overdose, etc
agree that its suicide stat not gun stat. What needs attention is 'attempted' suicide (failing at failing, ffs) which doesnt often show up with firearms.

3- stats support (was us publication, ~'the truth about guns', re:destructive device atf ruling ~sep 11)
in areas it was MANDATED that the owner had to keep a firearm in home, crime decresed 80%. No shit.

4- education > security. Kids are good at picking trigger locks and stealing your safe keys while youre passed out drunk on a pile of hookers.
My kids were raised with guns (crossbows, knives, motorbikes, cars, sharp sticks, candles, matches, gas ovens etc)
ergo i trust them to be eminently more sensible than someone who tells me 'they dont like guns' but cant actually define nor differentiate firearms, airguns, good guys, bad guys, movies, real life, santa claus, bad parenting etc.

5- see 3.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

4- education > security. Kids are good at picking trigger locks and stealing your safe keys while youre passed out drunk on a pile of hookers.
My kids were raised with guns (crossbows, knives, motorbikes, cars, sharp sticks, candles, matches, gas ovens etc)
ergo i trust them to be eminently more sensible than someone who tells me 'they dont like guns' but cant actually define nor differentiate firearms, airguns, good guys, bad guys, movies, real life, santa claus, bad parenting etc.

5- see 3.

OMG, I am forced to agree with you !

[Drunken Monkey]

Speaking of reloading, I have some free brass again. about 50 rounds, nearly all .308 (probably about 5 or so .243 mixed in there). MSG me for more info.

[Akzle]

Speaking of reloading, I have some free brass again. about 50 rounds, nearly all .308 (probably about 5 or so .243 mixed in there). MSG me for more info.

once fired? Brand?

Giz it

[Akzle]

Speaking of reloading, I have some free brass again. about 50 rounds, nearly all .308 (probably about 5 or so .243 mixed in there). MSG me for more info.

once fired? Brand?

Giz it

[scumdog]

Australia said 'yeah alright' to gun restrictions: Yes, and my impression is that it hasn't done a whole lot to the ability of criminals to access firearms.



Even the Aussies have called their country the 'beige country' because of the over-regulation, can anybody post anything that is LESS regulated in Aussie than in NZ?

An ex-pat guy I know was telling me how he got stopped at a random booze-bus type check, cop noticed a packet of .177 air-rifle slugs in the open glove-box.

Nek minnit said guy was arrested when it was discovered his firearms licence had expired (yes, for slugs!) and taken to cop-shop.

While he was in the cells his house was searched, air-rifle taken, (plus reloading gear from when he used to have centre-fires) he appeared in court - $2,500 in fines and costs, forbidden from applying for firearms licence for TEN years!:(

Seems reasonable....:crazy:

[pritch]

Even the Aussies have called their country the 'beige country' because of the over-regulation, can anybody post anything that is LESS regulated in Aussie than in NZ?



Only one that comes to mind is their food industry which used to permit the use of chemicals which ours did not, and some of their regulations have/had much lower standards, eg the amount of meat in a pie.

Lots in the other direction some of which can strike as weird at the time. I'm not sure I've got it the right way around, but I think it was illegal to cook in a motel but was legal in a hotel room? Like I said weird.

When you read the Oz papers on the 'Net there is a strong impression that a higher percentage of their politicians are actual nut jobs than is the case here.

[Akzle]

When you read the Oz papers on the 'Net there is a strong impression that a higher percentage of their politicians are actual nut jobs than is the case here.

err, percentage only goes up to 100...

[cruza]

I disagree.

An AR-15 will fire just about anything, but some of the cheaper crappier ammo can really foul one up. In that case it's time spent reloading to save time cleaning.

Also, as with any gun, you'll get much better results with hand-loaded ammo if you're really keen because you're tuning for things like condition of the threading, amount and stroke length of reciprocating mass and to avoid barrel resonances.

You can get close by carefully testing multiple types of ammo, but that's not likely to leave you picking the cheapest one. You can get the cheapest and just live with the results (probably what I'd do). Alternatively, you can get setup to reload and get the best of both worlds, while saving money to boot.

As per usual, a lot of assertions here without numbers behind them.

From a quick look on Reloaders it looks like you can get below $0.50 per round without too much trouble, that's buying things in the 100-1000 quantity. It does assume you've got a source of brass, but basically if it's cheaper than new ammo, you've always got a source of brass right there.

Best I could see is some remanufactured Belmont ammo at $0.88 each. I'm not sure I'd consider that a good candidate for reloading from, though. I've been having a mare sorting some loose-primer brass out from a batch of .45 given to me by a friend who shoots factory reloaded ammo. Everything else is $1 each or more, although not in any great quantities.

Anyone got any accurate and recent numbers for .223 bought in ~1k+ quantities?

Aoraki ammunition in timaru landed heap of boxer primed brass case pmc ammunition . $530 per 1000 for 55gr fmj , $550 for 62gr I think . Geez if you salvage 50% of the cases after a nights spotlighting its a bargain .

[jasonu]

Quality H&K 5.56 mag

[jasonu]

Full auto M16 for sale.
http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=172130

[Swoop]

16 April 2015: The U.S. Marine Corps is going to switch to hollow point rifle and pistol ammunition.

Actually SOCOM (Special Operations Command) and the Marines have been using hollow tip bullets for over a decade, mostly in Afghanistan and, for SOCOM, worldwide. This use of hollow point, rather than full metal jacket ammo, began with pistols. SOCOM experimented and found that a full-metal jacket 9mm round has a one-shot stop rate (OSSR) of 70 percent, while the best 115-grain 9mm hollow point has a one-shot stop rate of 91 percent. OSSR is largely just a way to measure the relative stopping power of different (in terms of calibre, design and weight) bullets and forcing the target to drop because of death or incapacitation.

Much depends on where you shoot someone and SOCOM found that the highest OSSR was achieved with a .45 calibre (11.4mm) pistol firing hollow point bullets. That gives you something like .99 OSSR and the OSSR stays high no matter where you hit someone. Basic OSSR is calculated assuming a hit in the centre of mass. It was long known that hollow point does more damage but lots of battlefield experience since September 11, 2001 made it clear that hollow point ammo was a key tool in limiting the effectiveness of Islamic terrorists.

There is a popular and long-standing myth that hollow point bullets (that expand on hitting and create larger and more damaging wounds) are illegal according to the Geneva Convention. That treaty does not mention bullets. The later 1899 Hague Convention does and it prohibits some types of hollow point bullets. The U.S. never signed the Hague Convention and was never bound by it. But in deference to allies who did sign American forces have rarely used hollow point bullets. One frequent exception was for certain types of commando operations, like hostage rescue. No allies ever complained about this.

Shortly after 2001 SOCOM and the marines, responding to complaints from troops that the standard 5.56 and 9mm full metal jacket bullets were not doing enough damage to stop fanatical Taliban fighters, began issuing hollow point bullets and troops were satisfied with the improved stopping power. As a result the Marines are going to switch over to the MK318 hollow point (or “open tip”) round for its assault rifles and machine-guns. The existing M855 full metal jacket rounds will be used up in training exercises. SOCOM has also switched to hollow point for pistols (9mm and 11.4mm) and rifles. The army is watching all this carefully.

[scumdog]

For once NZ Police were ahead of the game when it came to the value of hollow-points!:niceone:

[scumdog]

Having problem with my Gevarm A-7 not ejecting consistantly, any of you gun-gurus on how the fix this?

BTW: The 'ejector' is the left lip on the magazine in these rifles. (in case you are not aware...)

[Akzle]

Having problem with my Gevarm A-7 not ejecting consistantly, any of you gun-gurus on how the fix this?

BTW: The 'ejector' is the left lip on the magazine in these rifles. (in case you are not aware...)

modify the cunt to full auto.:whistle:




all ammoes or just some?

[jono035]

Having problem with my Gevarm A-7 not ejecting consistantly, any of you gun-gurus on how the fix this?

BTW: The 'ejector' is the left lip on the magazine in these rifles. (in case you are not aware...)

So it's extracting the case ok but not ejecting it? The case is then getting hung up when it feeds the next? Tried different (hotter) ammo? Also, could be that the chamber (or bolt/receiver) is a bit manky and needs a clean?

I've got a Gevarm sitting around somewhere but I don't have a proper mag for it so I can't really help in that regard.

[scumdog]

modify the cunt to full auto.:whistle:




all ammoes or just some?


I did that in 1974,

Didn't improve the kill rate so changed it back.

'all ammoes' as you say.

[scumdog]

So it's extracting the case ok but not ejecting it? The case is then getting hung up when it feeds the next? Tried different (hotter) ammo? Also, could be that the chamber (or bolt/receiver) is a bit manky and needs a clean?

I've got a Gevarm sitting around somewhere but I don't have a proper mag for it so I can't really help in that regard.


I get a few stove pipes, the odd time the empty sits back far enough to hold the bolt back.

[Akzle]

I get a few stove pipes, the odd time the empty sits back far enough to hold the bolt back.

whu??

innt it an open bolty??

[scumdog]

whu??

innt it an open bolty??

Not the A-7:oi-grr:

[jono035]

Not the A-7:oi-grr:

Just checked and it's an A6 that I've got here.

I'm not familiar with the A7s. Do they have a normal claw extractor or just a flat boltface like the A6s?

If the case is getting wedged at the back then it's cycling fully, but might not be maintaining enough bolt speed to let the case kick out fast enough.

Do you notice it happening any more often with subs? You could try a good soak with WD40 and see if that lowers how often it happens. If that changes it then that'd be bolt speed. I guess if the spring has gone a bit weak then it could be bouncing at the end of its travel and kicking forward faster than it should. I guess that'd mean it'd be better with subs or a manky bolt, in which case I'd just end up confused.

[Akzle]

then how did you full auto :scratch:

is the mag seating properlike?

[carburator]

So it's extracting the case ok but not ejecting it? The case is then getting hung up when it feeds the next? Tried different (hotter) ammo? Also, could be that the chamber (or bolt/receiver) is a bit manky and needs a clean?

I've got a Gevarm sitting around somewhere but I don't have a proper mag for it so I can't really help in that regard.

Had one through work recently same issue.
A good strip and clean is the first thing to look at.
Generally all 22lrs that come across the bench for this issue is cleaning and improper lubrication.
one thing I have found with guns that have fired thousands of rounds is they do tend to peen
the chamber face, sometimes a chamber reamer by hand removes a couple of tens and just
lessens drag on extraction.

[scumdog]

then how did you full auto :scratch:

is the mag seating properlike?

Ah, I own more tham 1 Gevarm Rob!

And yeah, mag seats proper, the rifle hasn't had that many rounds through it.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Anyone got a Lee Classic loader ( the hand one) in 223 that they want to sell ?
Cheers :Punk:

[awa355]

Interesting statistics.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11475254

[Akzle]

Interesting statistics.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11475254

lies! Damn lies and statitics!

Interesting that the world bank did a survey on firearms, innit? Suppose if youre looking for a solid investment... :laugh:

[nseagoon]

they got the safety lever instructions around the wrong way.

[Swoop]

they got the safety lever instructions around the wrong way.

Yup.:oi-grr:

I like how the article completely misses the point (not hard for The Harold though...) that the Soviets supplied this and many other types of weapons to everyone and anyone who could pay. If you couldn't pay, but still had a grudge against the West - no worries!
State sponsored global terrorism.

[Akzle]

Yup.:oi-grr:

I like how the article completely misses the point (not hard for The Harold though...) that the Soviets supplied this and many other types of weapons to everyone and anyone who could pay. If you couldn't pay, but still had a grudge against the West - no worries!
State sponsored global terrorism.

hahahahahahahahahahaha. You so funny.

[jasonu]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7UW5AkWqOY

[jasonu]

Ruger SR1911 45acp
315660

[Swoop]

^ Nice new toy Jason!

I'm still wondering "why?" with Jerry's new toys...
Still, an engineering challenge to be sure!

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3tEYcUSQDyw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[jasonu]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11554548

[leathel]

I hope the police take her to task and dont drop it, she broke the law, the loop is hardly loop hole if you fraudulently fill in the police section (Impersonating a police officer), use someones license number illegally (Her form was published a while back with a legit number...just not hers) is as much a loop hole as the 100kph speed limit, you brake the rules and get caught you get busted

[Akzle]

I hope the police take her to task and dont drop it, she broke the law, the loop is hardly loop hole if you fraudulently fill in the police section (Impersonating a police officer), use someones license number illegally (Her form was published a while back with a legit number...just not hers)

on this we can agree. Impersonating an arms officer, no less.
Bitch should be done for fraud too

[jasonu]

Nice little pocket gun for $400.

317896

http://averagejoeshandgunreviews.blogspot.com/2014/06/s-performance-center-wyatt-deep-cover.html

[R650R]

For all those who have family and friends out there posting anti gun propaganda on FB feeds etc, show them this.

Cop on phone vs homeowner armed while machete wielding nutbar neighbour breaks through apartment door and three locks!!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bsAMSQ13bY

[jasonu]

For all those who have family and friends out there posting anti gun propaganda on FB feeds etc, show them this.

Cop on phone vs homeowner armed while machete wielding nutbar neighbour breaks through apartment door and three locks!!!!

]

Doesn't matter. If you have a gun, in the eyes of the wowsers you are a nut and or murderer.

[oldrider]

Doesn't matter. If you have a gun, in the eyes of the wowsers you are a nut and or murderer.

Correct - conditioned by the media of the day - imagine the scene if the home owner inside the door did not have that handgun! :scratch:

[pritch]

Just as well he had a gun, his front door didn't look up to much. Doesn't matter how many locks you have if the door is made of cardboard.

[oldrider]

Just as well he had a gun, his front door didn't look up to much. Doesn't matter how many locks you have if the door is made of cardboard.

Yeah had to chortle a bit at that one sorta like the three little pigs huffing and puffing and blowin the house in! :rofl:

[yokel]

For all those who have family and friends out there posting anti gun propaganda on FB feeds etc, show them this.

Cop on phone vs homeowner armed while machete wielding nutbar neighbour breaks through apartment door and three locks!!!!



"please stay down" haha nice one.

Show your facebook "friends" this one.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HGhPWH9kOxw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[nseagoon]

Right now Police are attempting to implement a new policy where A Cat AR15 receivers are now considered MSSA items. This will potentially mean that the only people that can import an AR15 receiver are those with an E Cat endorsement.
This Ultra Vires police activity (meaning...beyond one's legal power or authority) needs to be stopped immediately.
We need all firearm owners to express their displeasure. 2016 is going to be the year when we all need to participate in protecting our rights.
I have talked to Nicholas Taylor (firearms lawyer) and COLFO about this.
In the meantime be vigilant. If you are asked to provide anything in writing to Police to obtain something as simple as Police mail order form, or if you party to an email from Police discussing this policy than please get in touch. The more written evidence we have of this Ultra Vires policy the stronger our case will be.
Please share this post among your firearms community!
Please like the COLFO facebook page. Its time to get motivated as a firearms owner!

[Akzle]

Right now Police are attempting to implement a new policy where A Cat AR15 receivers are now considered MSSA items. This will potentially mean that the only people that can import an AR15 receiver are those with an E Cat endorsement.
This Ultra Vires police activity (meaning...beyond one's legal power or authority) needs to be stopped immediately.
We need all firearm owners to express their displeasure. 2016 is going to be the year when we all need to participate in protecting our rights.
I have talked to Nicholas Taylor (firearms lawyer) and COLFO about this.
In the meantime be vigilant. If you are asked to provide anything in writing to Police to obtain something as simple as Police mail order form, or if you party to an email from Police discussing this policy than please get in touch. The more written evidence we have of this Ultra Vires policy the stronger our case will be.
Please share this post among your firearms community!
Please like the COLFO facebook page. Its time to get motivated as a firearms owner!

free standing pistol grips anyone?

The problem with the police, asides from them not knowing the fucking legislation they're due to enforce, is that if you rark them up enough, you probably WILL end up with legislation change. Not in your favour.

Anyway. The ar platform is gay.

[Akzle]

"the arms act is 30 years old, and written in a time when honest rural kiwis had guns and there were less gangs and there wasnt such a risk to the public and police of being affected by firearms crime"

just wait... This is what the news will publish and every nignorant moron will repeat at the pub.


Stupid people fuck me off.

[Akzle]

or a retard is going to shoot up a cafe while all the cops are out of town...

[nseagoon]

The problem is it won't just affect the AR platform.
AK, 10/22 etc can all be restricted by this once a precedence is set.
Just getting sick and tired of pol hq attacking the low hanging fruit that is law abiding citizens

[scumdog]

Right now Police are attempting to implement a new policy where A Cat AR15 receivers are now considered MSSA items. This will potentially mean that the only people that can import an AR15 receiver are those with an E Cat endorsement.
This Ultra Vires police activity (meaning...beyond one's legal power or authority) needs to be stopped immediately.
We need all firearm owners to express their displeasure. 2016 is going to be the year when we all need to participate in protecting our rights.
I have talked to Nicholas Taylor (firearms lawyer) and COLFO about this.
In the meantime be vigilant. If you are asked to provide anything in writing to Police to obtain something as simple as Police mail order form, or if you party to an email from Police discussing this policy than please get in touch. The more written evidence we have of this Ultra Vires policy the stronger our case will be.
Please share this post among your firearms community!
Please like the COLFO facebook page. Its time to get motivated as a firearms owner!

The horse has well and truly bolted - so it's a retard move by some waste of wages shiney-bum to make a name for themselves.

[yokel]

or a patsy is going to shoot up a cafe while all the cops are carrying out active shooter drill just around the corner ...

I fixed that for you.

All this gun control hysteria comes from the US MSM that ends up down here.
Just look at that stupid bitch reporter that brought a gun online and then tells us there's to many guns in NZ while showing an image of some terrorist looking due with a submachine gun.

No gun is gay, saying no guns is, anyways AR 15's mean as oi https://youtu.be/BSizVpfqFtw

https://rasica.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/gun_control_works.jpg

[Akzle]

No gun is gay, saying no guns is, anyways AR 15's mean as oi https://youtu.be/BSizVpfqFtw[/img]

you dont shoot, huh?

[Akzle]

The problem is it won't just affect the AR platform.
AK, 10/22 etc can all be restricted by this once a precedence is set.
Just getting sick and tired of pol hq attacking the low hanging fruit that is law abiding citizens

a) just import a complete a cat ar rifle. Sell everything else on trademe. Bingo. Ar upper.
B) who the fuck imports just 10/22 actions (although their 100rd banana mags are fkn neat.)??
And really, good luck with them restricting a .22
C) Ak/sks -same, who imports just the receivers??
While i agree that any restrictions are gay as fuck (and pointless, as they dont apply to criminals), this, as mentioned, is just another "hk thumbhole stock" misinterpretation of dated legislation - it's unenforcable.

The import regs changed a couple of years back with fuckall hoo-rah, it's the gradual erosion that'll sink ya.
Every single time they try to/ fuck with 'gun laws' we need to be lining up politicians and shooting them.

Also a superlative chance to start/ improve nz arms manufacturing. D cats for everyone!

[nseagoon]

a) just import a complete a cat ar rifle. Sell everything else on trademe. Bingo. Ar upper.


Also a superlative chance to start/ improve nz arms manufacturing. D cats for everyone!

-people are being asked to write letters stating their intent to keep the rifle on A cat. That means, no letter, no import approval.

-Katipo Research is one to keep an eye on, currently developing home grown parts for sale. Closely associated with NZAR15.

I have the CAD designs for both upper and lower but can't say it's cheap to buy blocks of aluminium or have regular enough access to a mill to allow using of the designs.
I hope it works out for katipo, also there's AIL and Spearmags in the meantime

[Akzle]

-people are being asked to write letters stating their intent to keep the rifle on A cat. That means, no letter, no import approval.

wait,so you want to get an e cat rifle(/parts), on an a cat license?

[nseagoon]

wait,so you want to get an e cat rifle(/parts), on an a cat license?

No. That's a separate issue.

They are creating a binding end user agreement that is illegal stating the parts will only be used for A cat use. Then they're also stopping use of the pol67,( a form they created) to stop movement of A and E parts between endorsements.
Two separate issues.
Firstly it's simply in policy and not law at all,
Secondly It could mean if you sell a part in NZ and someone puts it on their E rifle after you sell it, there are risks of legal implications on you the seller.

Also as I mentioned the pol67 was created so this could be done so essentially why can't items be moved between endorsements? Other than simply because pol hq wants control

[Akzle]

No. That's a separate issue.

They are creating a binding end user agreement that is illegal stating the parts will only be used for A cat use. Then they're also stopping use of the pol67,( a form they created) to stop movement of A and E parts between endorsements.
Two separate issues.
Firstly it's simply in policy and not law at all,
Secondly It could mean if you sell a part in NZ and someone puts it on their E rifle after you sell it, there are risks of legal implications on you the seller.

Also as I mentioned the pol67 was created so this could be done so essentially why can't items be moved between endorsements? Other than simply because pol hq wants control

the seller would no longer be the end user, innit?

Intent can change.
Consent can be revoked.

Also. "binding" is a legal thing. Requires disclosure and agreement and shit. So while you may "agree", there has not been full disclosure, ergo the contract is null and void.
Also, i dont believe (but have not seen either way) that they ARE creating a binding EULA.

[nseagoon]

the seller would no longer be the end user, innit?

Intent can change.
Consent can be revoked.

Also. "binding" is a legal thing. Requires disclosure and agreement and shit. So while you may "agree", there has not been full disclosure, ergo the contract is null and void.
Also, i dont believe (but have not seen either way) that they ARE creating a binding EULA.

it's a new 'policy' with A category imports started in the last few weeks.

[jasonu]

There is a bit of a loop hole here. Anyone can buy an 80% lower receiver without any paperwork. That is an unfinished receiver that isn't quite a gun hence no paper work. You are in fact buying a lump of aluminium with some milled slots and drilled holes. An hour on the mill turns it into an actual receiver which is the part (in the USA) that makes a gun a gun. The receiver is the only part of the gun that is restricted here (except silencers and such). Buy the upper, trigger kit etc and hey presto.

I wonder how long it will take the NZ thorities to figure that one out...

http://www.tacticalmachining.com/80-products/80-ar15-lower-receivers.html
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=202

[Swoop]

The receiver is the only part of the gun that is restricted here]
The receiver is the firearm, here too. Just that the public servant's do not want that fact anywhere near them.
Their job is to enforce law, NOT attempt to create it - since that is the politician's job.

[Akzle]

There is a bit of a loop hole here. Anyone can buy an 80% lower receiver without any paperwork. That is an unfinished receiver that isn't quite a gun hence no paper work. You are in fact buying a lump of aluminium with some milled slots and drilled holes. An hour on the mill turns it into an actual receiver which is the part (in the USA) that makes a gun a gun. The receiver is the only part of the gun that is restricted here (except silencers and such). Buy the upper, trigger kit etc and hey presto.

I wonder how long it will take the NZ thorities to figure that one out...

http://www.tacticalmachining.com/80-products/80-ar15-lower-receivers.html
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=202
we have vague enough legislation here...
~"any thing or part, that by repair or
re assembly can be made to fire any projectile, missile... etc"

so, technically, any bit of 18.5mm id pipe is a shotgun waiting to happen...

[jasonu]

we have vague enough legislation here...
~"any thing or part, that by repair or
re assembly can be made to fire any projectile, missile... etc"

so, technically, any bit of 18.5mm id pipe is a shotgun waiting to happen...

Then there is the folks that make 3d guns...

[nseagoon]

Here a receiver is a receiver whether it's 80% or not.
The only similarity with the states is the lower is deemed the firearm.
Opposed to say a SLR which the upper is numbered so the upper is the firearm as that's the registered part.

The obvious issue that NZ law wasn't designed for was if you have an AR upper with a bayonet lug or flash suppressor it's not E cat.
Not until you stick it on a lower at least.

That's the problem with new legislation that will be created, it's always focused more on creating more control of licence holders and their firearms, rather than just accepting they're either fit and proper or not.

[Akzle]

That's the problem with new legislation that will be created, it's always focused more on creating more control of licence holders and their firearms, rather than just accepting they're either fit and proper or not.

yeah, thats the intent of the current, when we scrapped the firearms register. To license the person, rather than the gun.

However. An unarmed population is easier to control, just ask young adolf...

[jasonu]

8" barrel SBR 300 black out.

[5150]

I just got a Crosman 140 Third Variant (1956-1962) pump action air rifle. This thing is still mint and fires strong and straight. It has been recently resealed. This model has the safety through the stock. (Push left and its safe, push right and free to fire). When it is in safe mode and not pumped, the trigger is locked, but as soon as you pump it even though the safety is on, it will fire. Anyone in the know how can recommend a remedy or who in the Waikato area could look at it for me? From what I understand the safety has a spring and 2 ball bearings within the assembly. I wander if something has gone astray there of if the sear is worn out?

Cheers

[5150]

Also can anyone tell me what is the procedure if any with purchasing online air rifles from overseas? I am after Benjamin 392 air rifle (pump action, NOT PCP)

Do I need an import permit even if I don't generally need a fire arms license on an air rifle? It is not a high powered one.

Thanks

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Anyone have a Lee Full Size die in 243 they want to sell ?
Cheers:Oi:

[Flip]

8" barrel SBR 300 black out.

Lot of money to spend for a rifle that duplicates a old 7.62x39 AK/SK?

[Akzle]

Lot of money to spend for a rifle that duplicates a old 7.62x39 AK/SK?
not quite. The 300blk is typically loaded subsonic. Making it more a cq weapon. It can however be hotted up for longer range shit, which is where you can start comparing to the x39.
It's a .223 case blown out to 308, which means there's heaps less shoulder on it, stacks more in a mag, easier chambering, and shorter (lighter faster) action.
I'd consider it a somewhat more refined cartridge than x39. Especially compared to one of those sk chinese chainsaws.

[Akzle]

I have to say thay the M14/16 is not my favorite action. IMHO its a complicated weapon for simple soldiers. Why would anybody load sub sonic 300blk into a stoner rifle and not expect anything but trouble.

As I said its a lot of money for a rifle to shoot a (if you like) refined version of the old 7.62x39 when a $300 SKS would do the same job, run more reilyably and cost a whole bucket of cash less to shoot?

A good friend of mine has a M14 300 blk and well to be honest it is not half the rifle my dirty old AK is.

the m14 is a rifle, and a competent one at that.

you mean the m16? the AR platform one as pictured?
yeah, i'd take an AK over the 16.
BUT if they had an AK chambered in 300blk, i'd take that, as it's a superior, more versatile cartridge, imho.
the blk is better suited to urban combat and sneaky shit.
the x39 is a do-all with compromises at both ends, not the accuracy/range of other 30 cals, and too much noise and oomph inside 50m.
not that it cant be loaded up/down, just that you're not going to get the same versatility out of one gun.

reliability is a bit moot, as the AK platform beats out the AR. as you note, it's a fiddly and pedantic piston system. never handled a stoner so can't comment.

[TheDemonLord]

Dear Gun Afficianados,

Hopefully this year I am finally going to get round to getting my Cat A licence.

Long Term I would like to go for my Cat E (which means 3 Gun)

Mainly I'd like to try medium range (200-400m) target shooting with a Rifle (I'm thining 308/303).

I'd like recommendations on:

1: a good, small, relatively inexpensive (within reason) 2-3 gun safe.
2: Any reputable tradespeople that would bolt said safe to either Concrete or Wooden stud (I could probably do it myself, but I'd rather stick to IT)
3: a good choice for a first Firearm given the above
4: Clubs/Groups/Chur cunts/Other that have access to ranges such as the above and like to go shooting.
5: I may in the future try my hand at hunting deer (I'm partial to Venison) but I don't fancy getting shot by an idiot hunter, nor do I fancy accidentally killing someone else - what are the options for a total beginner (with heaps of FPS experience - cause that shit is like totes transferrable, just need to press the Q key to check if they are friendly or not).

And no Akzle, $5 and a bag of crisps need not apply.

[Akzle]

Dear Gun Afficianados,

Long Term I would like to go for my Cat E (which means 3 Gun)

Mainly I'd like to try medium range (200-400m) target shooting with a Rifle (I'm thining 308/303).

I'd like recommendations on:

1: a good, small, relatively inexpensive (within reason) 2-3 gun safe.
2: Any reputable tradespeople that would bolt said safe to either Concrete or Wooden stud (I could probably do it myself, but I'd rather stick to IT)
3: a good choice for a first Firearm given the above
4: Clubs/Groups/Chur cunts/Other that have access to ranges such as the above and like to go shooting.
5: I may in the future try my hand at hunting deer (I'm partial to Venison) but I don't fancy getting shot by an idiot hunter, nor do I fancy accidentally killing someone else - what are the options for a total beginner (with heaps of FPS experience - cause that shit is like totes transferrable, just need to press the Q key to check if they are friendly or not).

And no Akzle, $5 and a bag of crisps need not apply.

no. e cat means MSSA.
3 gun is typically pistol, rifle, shotgun.

being in auckland there are 3 or 4 clubs to shoot with, clevedon and waitemata off the top of my head, both shoot out to ~1km.

308 is a nicer round. with more versatility. easily accurate within 1400m.
303 is a cheaper round. with more availability of both guns and ammo. (and can be loaded to accurate out to 800m ish)
i have a hard on for 30-06 at the mo, which is more versaitile again, so check them out too.
if you have lots of monies go for a 375 or 338

basically any 30 cal will do what you want. hell, at that range most 20s are open to you, 270, 243, 22-250.
if you wan to be a real target shooter, try 6mmPPC at 1000m. (refer 6mmbr.com for examples)

expect to spend the price again on optics. kahles, swarovski, leupold, nighforce, redfield. in that order.

any safe from h+f type stores will do. personally i would avoid electric unless you're spending big money.
key is best, followed by combination, followed by PIN followed by biometric.

recommend a) getting the biggest safe you can fit b) getting E cat spec from the outset.

first rifle. for target shooting only? how many do you plan on buying (in your life)? a blaser, kimber, steyr, sako will last for your grandkids.

a remmington 700 is a good cheap introduction but a bit light for 308 IMO. anything at a gunshop (ruger, marlin, winchester, remington etc) will probably be subMOA out of the box nowdays.

in 303 any number of SMLE, war guns, cut downs are avail. many will have the barrels shot out (need replace).
my preference would be the parker hale over mauser. a mosin just for interest.

as with anything, get some saddle time before buying. for someone totally new to shooting, you need to get a feel for what you need to get a feel for. don't just buy a gun in the pub carpark cos the bloke reckons he'd take the balls off a bird at 500m.

look at ammo prices too as part of buying decision, especially if you're shooting high volume, or get friendly with a reloader.

hunting is different from shooting. but shooting is obviously a part, 200m is a long shot on a deer, so you dont need to be that good.

oh, and any nigger can bolt that shit in. +HP for concrete floor and walls.

[Akzle]

and as to not shooting cunts, follow the seven rules.

as to not being shot, blaze camo is the recommended. but it does look like a red's arse at dawn and dusk, so....

basically, become ninja, you should be able to (but not actually do) poach/hunt through someone's block without them even knowing you're there.

camo looks trick, a ghillie suit even better, but mostly just stubbies and a swannie will do ya.

[Swoop]

Long Term I would like to go for my Cat E (which means 3 Gun)

Mainly I'd like to try medium range (200-400m) target shooting with a Rifle (I'm thining 308/303).

I'd like recommendations on:

1: a good, small, relatively inexpensive (within reason) 2-3 gun safe.
2: Any reputable tradespeople that would bolt said safe to either Concrete or Wooden stud (I could probably do it myself, but I'd rather stick to IT)
3: a good choice for a first Firearm given the above
4: Clubs/Groups/Chur cunts/Other that have access to ranges such as the above and like to go shooting.

3 goon will be fun, but perhaps start with a decent smallbore rifle and work on being accurate. A nice .22 is cheap to run and you can fire away all afternoon having fun trying to make a 1cm target disappear.
A "first firearm" isn't going to be one which is used in 3-gun.

Mid-range would be good using .308. A few folks will zero a .308 at 700yds...

Safes?
Any twat with a hammer-action drill and a socket set can install one of those.
Seriously.

And perhaps Warkworth club would be your best bet for local range? Good cnuts there too.