The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[pritch]

Depends on what you consider borrowing, using share issue returns or a bank overdraught facility in business probably shouldn't be presented as pricks being rich 'cause they've borrowed it all cheap. Outside of purely commercial functions most rich pricks I know avoid borrowing money.

Really? In my experience non productive people who were born rich don't remain rich. Conversely, most productive people who fail in some venture or misfortune don't usually remain down for long. So I'd say that productive behaviour has a far higher correlation with wealth than an inheritance.

It's been said that being rich is easier than being poor. I'd agree with that.

Oh, and buying places at Harvard is fairly routine, it's not a charitable institution. What's more, given that typical course costs run to about US$50.000 pa it sounds positively cheap. I read an interesting article about US tertiary ed institution charges and they way they manage bursaries. I'll see if I can dig it out.

Ummm you seem to be arguing with things I didn't write?

I'm not saying rich people aren't productive, just that most rich are people are born that way. I can think of exceptions but without spending hours looking at, and researching, the rich list I can't make a definitive list and I'm not interested in doing that.

[Ocean1]

Lotto winners could be an example? :rolleyes:

An example of what?

A lot of them certainly don't keep their winnings long.

[Hemi Makutu]

Recall that the Donald went bust by over-capitalising his casinos.. that takes real "productivity"..

[Ocean1]

Ummm you seem to be arguing with things I didn't write?

I'm not saying rich people aren't productive, just that most rich are people are born that way. I can think of exceptions but without spending hours looking at, and researching, the rich list I can't make a definitive list and I'm not interested in doing that.

Again, my experience indicates the opposite, most of the wealthy people I know inherited bugger all. Those that did "come into" some sort of windfall don't seem any more likely to be any better off a decade later than anyone else.

All I'm really trying to establish is that individual income is, for the most part a good measure of individual productivity. You'll fine a bunch of exceptions to that, Trumps and Hiltons maybe, depending on how you value their product, but I don't know any of them, down here where "rich" probably means a net worth in the top 10% I'd say it's largely accurate.

[Banditbandit]

Again, my experience indicates the opposite, most of the wealthy people I know inherited bugger all. Those that did "come into" some sort of windfall don't seem any more likely to be any better off a decade later than anyone else.

All I'm really trying to establish is that individual income is, for the most part a good measure of individual productivity. You'll fine a bunch of exceptions to that, Trumps and Hiltons maybe, depending on how you value their product, but I don't know any of them, down here where "rich" probably means a net worth in the top 10% I'd say it's largely accurate.

I'll surprise myself (and probably you too) by saying I would have to agree with you.

I could add that there are many volunteers doing good work and highly productive who would not rate their productivity by the monetary wealth - but in the context of your arguments I would agree with you ..

[Hemi Makutu]

Again, my experience indicates the opposite, most of the wealthy people I know inherited bugger all. Those that did "come into" some sort of windfall don't seem any more likely to be any better off a decade later than anyone else.

All I'm really trying to establish is that individual income is, for the most part a good measure of individual productivity. You'll fine a bunch of exceptions to that, Trumps and Hiltons maybe, depending on how you value their product, but I don't know any of them, down here where "rich" probably means a net worth in the top 10% I'd say it's largely accurate.


Tell us about how the redistribution of the world's wealth into the grasping hands of the 1%ers is a good thing..

While 'regular working stiffs' are made redundant, or at best endure wage stagnation, yet house ownership gets out of reach.. & mortgages become millstones..while banks make obscene profits..

Trump is proud that he paid no tax.. as many of them are, & the irony is.. the turkeys voted for Xmas..
Although, they'll be scrawny ones, financial worth-wise..

[Ocean1]

Tell us about how the redistribution of the world's wealth into the grasping hands of the 1%ers is a good thing..

While 'regular working stiffs' are made redundant, or at best endure wage stagnation, yet house ownership gets out of reach.. & mortgages become millstones..while banks make obscene profits..

Trump is proud that he paid no tax.. as many of them are, & the irony is.. the turkeys voted for Xmas..
Although, they'll be scrawny ones, financial worth-wise..

How about you look at this and tell us how badly income inequality is deteriorating.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/inequality-of-incomes-chartbook?country=FRA+JPN+NLD+NZL+GBR

And then maybe you can tell us why the fuck everyone should "earn" the same income.

[Brian d marge]

How about you look at this and tell us how badly income inequality is deteriorating.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/inequality-of-incomes-chartbook?country=FRA+JPN+NLD+NZL+GBR

And then maybe you can tell us why the fuck everyone should "earn" the same income.
That graph must have a very sore botty
The number of times u have used it


sent for a divine source

[jasonu]

So here is Trump with the guy picked to be the new head of Homeland Security. Perhaps Mr Kobach should do a crash course in security 101.
This'd be funny if it wasn't tragic.

You are acting just like the USA (and others) media. Sitting there just waiting for something that suits your angle/stance/slant to point out, laugh at, ridicule....
Maybe Trump will be a disaster, maybe not. It is still a bit early to tell.

[Hemi Makutu]

How about you look at this and tell us how badly income inequality is deteriorating.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/inequality-of-incomes-chartbook?country=FRA+JPN+NLD+NZL+GBR

And then maybe you can tell us why the fuck everyone should "earn" the same income.


Are the cherries ripe for pickin' already?

Why come out with stupid commie shit like - "everyone should 'earn' the same income'?

Put up a link that shows how company ( inc' SOE's) executives have approved themselves ludicrously high incomes..

...while the 'regular working stiff' has got jack shit - by comparison..

Show how much that ratio has risen in the last 4 decades or so, & then compare the 'productivity' ratio..

[bogan]

Perhaps, although as I said in my experience people with productive habits benefit society more than those without them. But more to the point before you decide what surplus you're going to spend in which areas of society you have to have a net positive personal productivity.

Some like to claim that, presumably on the theory that capitalists don't agree with govt control over everything and therefore want to keep everything for themselves. My observations don't back that up, as I said in my experience rich pricks benefit society more than poor pricks. And be careful with "capitalist", there's plenty of rich pricks that aren't hard line capitalists, in spite of what Stupid World dogma may have to say about shit.

Maybe, but whereas personal tax contribution may be a measure of individual productivity, (not convinced it's necessarily an accurate one) it doesn't factor any level of commitment to policy change. Actually purchasing the chance to influence policy does.

I don't think either would produce a policy set that I'd want, I have to say. I'm simply pointing out that atm we have the opposite: a system whereby individual living standards are so far divorced from the cost of supplying them that you have whole nations that can't actually make the connection between production and the income directly associated with it. And voting accordingly. Rather than have the completely irrational farce that was the US elections isn't it better to attempt to reestablish at least the awareness of that link?

Which is beside the point, since being personally productive has not been shown to be linked to making good societal decisions. The theory that there is a link is sound, but not shown; and if you, as a productive member of society suggest making such a societal decision based on only a plausible theory and personal experience; I would suggest it goes towards disproving that theory :laugh:

I wouldn't think it does either. Perhaps capitalist was too ambiguous a term, but it goes to the above point, do people who are good at obtaining personal wealth, have a skewed view on the more 'socialist' aspects of society, healthcare, education, conservation, welfare, etc.

If level of commitment is a factor, then why a flat rate? Why not a sliding scale based on income? But more importantly, why does conviction and commitment make a person a better voter?

I think such a link could be established with more of a middle ground, start with simply removing the right to vote from criminals and long term unemployment beneficiaries. The rest of society understands that link already.

[bogan]

You are acting just like the USA (and others) media. Sitting there just waiting for something that suits your angle/stance/slant to point out, laugh at, ridicule....
Maybe Trump will be a disaster, maybe not. It is still a bit early to tell.

http://gunshowcomic.com/comics/20130109.png

[oldrider]

An example of what?

A lot of them certainly don't keep their winnings long.

Well yes - that was the example - well spotted that man! :niceone:

[Brian d marge]

National radio how dare you publish such material, White van man will have a coronary

http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/201824574/helen-caldicott-anti-nuclear-warrior

(http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/sunday/audio/201824574/helen-caldicott-anti-nuclear-warrior)Hidden deep deep on a sunday morning ......not easy to find ,,,,,but at least they did ....

[Ocean1]

That graph must have a very sore botty
The number of times u have used it


sent for a divine source

I've never posted that graph before.

[Brian d marge]

I've never posted that graph before.
Oh really

sent for a divine source

[Ocean1]

Are the cherries ripe for pickin' already?

Why come out with stupid commie shit like - "everyone should 'earn' the same income'?

Put up a link that shows how company ( inc' SOE's) executives have approved themselves ludicrously high incomes..

...while the 'regular working stiff' has got jack shit - by comparison..

Show how much that ratio has risen in the last 4 decades or so, & then compare the 'productivity' ratio..

The graph I posted is Inequality of incomes after taxes and transfers, 1979 to 2013.

The data source is: Luxembourg Income Study (LIS) Database, http://www.lisdatacenter.org , If you don't think it's correct then you fucking put up a link that shows different.

PS: feel free to fail to explain how every person's daily value to their clients is worth exactly the same.

[Ocean1]

Oh really

sent for a divine source

Yes really.

[jasonu]

http://gunshowcomic.com/comics/20130109.png

There's that and then there's sitting there picking holes in something because you disagree with the result.

[yokel]

For every new regulation two must go, sounds not too bad .


https://youtu.be/WaSOVjAK5rU

Trumps latest episode of the apprentice,
This time it's the MSMs turn.


https://youtu.be/UyGrhNr8xZw

[Brian d marge]

How about you look at this and tell us how badly income inequality is deteriorating.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/inequality-of-incomes-chartbook?country=FRA+JPN+NLD+NZL+GBR

And then maybe you can tell us why the fuck everyone should "earn" the same income.


Reasons to be cheerful part 3

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/171833-Reasons-to-be-cheerful?p=1130930233#post1130930233

From the big book of facts xmas edition 1980 ,,,,

[bogan]

There's that and then there's sitting there picking holes in something because you disagree with the result.

So at just what point will you notice the fire?

[jasonu]

So at just what point will you notice the fire?

I would have voted Obama in 2008 (resident aliens don't get to vote) but voted against him in 2012 so I guess 4 years...

[bogan]

I would have voted Obama in 2008 (resident aliens don't get to vote) but voted against him in 2012 so I guess 4 years...

You think Obama was bad for US? What criteria is that based on?

[Katman]

You think Obama was bad for US? What criteria is that based on?

What he didn't do for the American people is probably dwarfed by what he did against people of other countries.

[mashman]

http://i.alalam.ir/news/Image/original/2014/05/17/alalam_635359413840929497_25f_4x3.jpg

[Hemi Makutu]

Reasons to be cheerful part 3

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/171833-Reasons-to-be-cheerful?p=1130930233#post1130930233

From the big book of facts xmas edition 1980 ,,,,

Well dug out B'd-man..


& O'l Salty's tattered credibility - takes another booming broadside - straight into the already soft underbelly...

[Ocean1]

Reasons to be cheerful part 3

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/171833-Reasons-to-be-cheerful?p=1130930233#post1130930233

From the big book of facts xmas edition 1980 ,,,,

Dude, that's not a graph, let alone the same one.

[Hemi Makutu]

Dude, that's not a graph, let alone the same one.

& despite your cherry picked graph, that site holds others - which blow your fanciful contentions out of the water..

[Brian d marge]

Dude, that's not a graph, let alone the same one.
its the site that you get all your facts from , that and stuff,co,nz .....and as I have posted before , that site is like the farmers reporting on the state of the turkeys after xmas

[Ocean1]

Which is beside the point, since being personally productive has not been shown to be linked to making good societal decisions. The theory that there is a link is sound, but not shown; and if you, as a productive member of society suggest making such a societal decision based on only a plausible theory and personal experience; I would suggest it goes towards disproving that theory :laugh:

I wouldn't think it does either. Perhaps capitalist was too ambiguous a term, but it goes to the above point, do people who are good at obtaining personal wealth, have a skewed view on the more 'socialist' aspects of society, healthcare, education, conservation, welfare, etc.

If level of commitment is a factor, then why a flat rate? Why not a sliding scale based on income? But more importantly, why does conviction and commitment make a person a better voter?

I think such a link could be established with more of a middle ground, start with simply removing the right to vote from criminals and long term unemployment beneficiaries. The rest of society understands that link already.

How is it beside the point to point out that the cost of social spending can only be met by productive members of society?

Is it significant that there isn't a question mark, there? And yes, I think that people who are good at obtaining personal wealth have their views on "socialist" aspects of society skewed by the fact that it's their taxes that pay for them, and often their incomes that deny them the resulting benefits. And I'd say that makes for a perfectly relevant experience requirement for social spending policy decisions.

Maybe it's not a factor in selection of a best policy set for prosperity. There's certainly no shortage of violently committed socialist fuckwits underfoot, and there's no chance whatsoever of them ever supplying anything vaguely resembling prosperity.

Don't forget the laywers and artificial inseminaters.

[Ocean1]

its the site that you get all your facts from , that and stuff,co,nz .....and as I have posted before , that site is like the farmers reporting on the state of the turkeys after xmas

It's a fucking brilliant site, the single most convenient place to get well presented data. If you don't like it then go to the source and show where the numbers are incorrect.

If you can't do that but still don't like it then feel free to post more unsubstantiated drivel, nobody will notice the difference. Probably.

[Hemi Makutu]

"Privatisation profits " & dodging tax is "Productive" with a capital P? What a joker..

[oldrider]

Interesting little article on Russian sea power?: http://beforeitsnews.com/military/2016/11/the-russian-navy-is-back-2478217.html?utm_content=bufferc8222&utm_medium=social&utm_source=plus.google.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Note the little reference to what Russian presence off Syria is really a threat to! :shifty:

[pritch]

You are acting just like the USA (and others) media. Sitting there just waiting for something that suits your angle/stance/slant to point out, laugh at, ridicule....
Maybe Trump will be a disaster, maybe not. It is still a bit early to tell.

That photograph was worthy of ridicule, the guy is amateurish but still he is the head of Homeland Security. The sort of guy who might have "password" for his password.

I saw a comment today that the words "not technically illegal" are likely to become very familiar.

[Brian d marge]

It's a fucking brilliant site, the single most convenient place to get well presented data. If you don't like it then go to the source and show where the numbers are incorrect.

If you can't do that but still don't like it then feel free to post more unsubstantiated drivel, nobody will notice the difference. Probably.
Well let me get my team onto it

And we will add to the tonnage data I link to

From all sorts of different sites .. the word that should stand out is

Different .

Ya see if ya have 2 or 3 source kinda in agreement , chances are it might be right

Quoting from the farmers guide to turkeys Christmas comfort...as the one guide to rule all guides isn't one the best ideas



sent for a divine source

[bogan]

Well let me get my team onto it

And we will add to the tonnage data I link to

From all sorts of different sites .. the word that should stand out is

Different .

Ya see if ya have 2 or 3 source kinda in agreement , chances are it might be right

Quoting from the farmers guide to turkeys Christmas comfort...as the one guide to rule all guides isn't one the best ideas



sent for a divine source

That's textbook echo chamber thinking, 1 source of quality transparent verifiable data beats 100 repititions of the same obfuscated sensationalist drivel to any rational mind.

You also forgot to post any contrary data there at all :facepalm:

[oldrider]

Syria Rejects Eastern Aleppo “Autonomy” Run by US-Supported “Moderate” Terrorists: http://www.globalresearch.ca/syria-rejects-eastern-aleppo-autonomy-run-by-us-supported-moderate-terrorists/5558070?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

Can the world expect any positive change from Trump's America? - only time will tell. :scratch:

[oldrider]

“Fake News” on Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Ukraine, Yemen: Support Global Research’s Battle against Media Disinformation: http://www.globalresearch.ca/support-gr-continue-its-coverage-of-palestine-ukraine-syria-iraq-and-much-more/5392362

The “Fake News” Controversy: Mainstream Media Used Fake Videos in Coverage of March Brussels Terror Attacks: http://www.globalresearch.ca/fake-video-used-in-news-coverage-of-brussels-terror-attacks/5515894

[jasonu]

You think Obama was bad for US? What criteria is that based on?

Obamacare, national debt, poor support for law enforcement, bad military strategies, stirring racial tensions (see poor support for law enforcement), ridiculous firearms rules that don't keep guns out of the hands of the baddies, the Iran deal, fuck that guy.

[yokel]

Obamacare, national debt, poor support for law enforcement, bad military strategies, stirring racial tensions (see poor support for law enforcement), ridiculous firearms rules that don't keep guns out of the hands of the baddies, the Iran deal, fuck that guy.

What you don't like Obama?
You must be some kinda racist white supremacist!

[Ocean1]

Well let me get my team onto it

And we will add to the tonnage data I link to

From all sorts of different sites .. the word that should stand out is

Different .

Ya see if ya have 2 or 3 source kinda in agreement , chances are it might be right

Quoting from the farmers guide to turkeys Christmas comfort...as the one guide to rule all guides isn't one the best ideas



sent for a divine source

Ah, looks like your unsubstantiated drivel is fairly easy to spot after all. My bad.

Read this again and see if you can try again without the drivel, eh?


If you don't like it then go to the source and show where the numbers are incorrect.

If you can't do that but still don't like it then feel free to post more unsubstantiated drivel, nobody will notice the difference. Probably.

[TheDemonLord]

Obamacare, national debt, poor support for law enforcement, bad military strategies, stirring racial tensions (see poor support for law enforcement), ridiculous firearms rules that don't keep guns out of the hands of the baddies, the Iran deal, fuck that guy.

I was watching this last night - some interesting perspectives regarding Obama's leadership:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1iQrmJcSIc

I think they are possibly being a bit generous with how much of a chance they gave Obama, but still an interesting PoV none-the-less.

[mashman]

Quoting from the farmers guide to turkeys Christmas comfort...as the one guide to rule all guides isn't one the best ideas

So to summarise, :wari:, the conversation so far


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxiT30N6ti4

[Brian d marge]

Ah, looks like your unsubstantiated drivel is fairly easy to spot after all. My bad.

Read this again and see if you can try again without the drivel, eh?
Yes I will try again,
obviously its not on ur radar

Quoting from the UN , CIA big book of facts , good

quoting from as many sources as I can find , bad

That is what ur saying isnt it?

, just as an aside if u look at the top of the post usually in big bold letters , there is a dead give a way .....

[jasonu]

What you don't like Obama?
You must be some kinda racist white supremacist!

Na mate just one of those undereducated white guys...

[Ocean1]

Yes I will try again,
obviously its not on ur radar

Quoting from the UN , CIA big book of facts , good

quoting from as many sources as I can find , bad

That is what ur saying isnt it?

, just as an aside if u look at the top of the post usually in big bold letters , there is a dead give a way .....

There's a bunch of shit not on my radar. Pathetic, uninformed Chicken Little impersonations for one.

It's really not all that difficult to back your shit up if you're right, dude. Here leme show you: http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/economic-standard-of-living/income-inequality.html

See, as defined by the extremely left leaning UN in GINI coefficients income inequality has moved fuck all in 20 years. And that's before you've taxed all them rich pricks a shitload and given a large wad of that to poor pricks the difference in actual spending power is sweet fuck all. Which is what that previous graph showed, btw.

Or is Stat'sNZ not an approved source?

And I still haven't seen the data that shows where everyone's work effort produces exactly the same value, wana give that a shot while you're on the job?

[Brian d marge]

There's a bunch of shit not on my radar. Pathetic, uninformed Chicken Little impersonations for one.

It's really not all that difficult to back your shit up if you're right, dude. Here leme show you: http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/economic-standard-of-living/income-inequality.html

See, as defined by the extremely left leaning UN in GINI coefficients income inequality has moved fuck all in 20 years. And that's before you've taxed all them rich pricks a shitload and given a large wad of that to poor pricks the difference in actual spending power is sweet fuck all. Which is what that previous graph showed, btw.

Or is Stat'sNZ not an approved source?

And I still haven't seen the data that shows where everyone's work effort produces exactly the same value, wana give that a shot while you're on the job?

20 years Gini ,,,,

give me a break , so this is the GINI produced by statistic NZ , for the last 20 year ( after the "economic reforms "

http://www.chartbookofeconomicinequality.com/inequality-by-country/new-zealand/
(http://www.chartbookofeconomicinequality.com/inequality-by-country/new-zealand/)
Snip "I still haven't seen the data that shows where everyone's work effort produces exactly the same value,"

I wouldnt know how to answer that one , suffice to say , depends what you call value , How valuable is the plumber to the rich man with a blocked toilet ? pretty valuable I would say. How valuable are the folks in the beehive , not valuable to some ,,,,,

Im sure there some work co ops that have a flat pay scale, but it will take some diggin ,

[Ocean1]

20 years Gini ,,,,

give me a break , so this is the GINI produced by statistic NZ , for the last 20 year ( after the "economic reforms "

http://www.chartbookofeconomicinequality.com/inequality-by-country/new-zealand/
(http://www.chartbookofeconomicinequality.com/inequality-by-country/new-zealand/)

Good find!

Look a bit more closely and you'll see "Gini, equiv disposable household income" right there on the graph. Isn't the shape of that curve familiar? It's exactly the same data I posted, showing that "income inequality has moved fuck all in 20 years". The very same data you immediately attempted to discredit.

And, in spite of the fact that, while you claim the data's from statistics NZ, the publisher seems to make no such claim. Which would normally immediately write them off as a credible reference, except...

Not that I doubt that's what the source was. Mainly because the graph itself is credited to that world renowned mathematician Max Roser, the very same guy that produced the graph I originally referenced. In fact I'd say the chances are that it's been pulled from that exact site.

You really should find another hobby, dude. :laugh:


Snip "I still haven't seen the data that shows where everyone's work effort produces exactly the same value,"

I wouldnt know how to answer that one , suffice to say , depends what you call value , How valuable is the plumber to the rich man with a blocked toilet ? pretty valuable I would say. How valuable are the folks in the beehive , not valuable to some ,,,,,

Im sure there some work co ops that have a flat pay scale, but it will take some diggin ,

Depends. If he's charging more than I want to pay I'd find someone else or do the job myself.

If you like work co-ops then I'm sure you can find one that can find a use for your skills mate. I'm sure the community spirit will make up for the 3rd world living conditions.

[pritch]

How valuable is the plumber to the rich man with a blocked toilet ? pretty valuable I would say.

Sorta reminds me of the old joke. The Doctor phoned the plumber late at night to report that his toilet was blocked. The plumber told him to take two aspirin and call again in the morning. The Doctor being somewhat dubious questioned if that would work. The plumber replies, "No, but that's what you told me when I called you."

[Brian d marge]

Good find!

Look a bit more closely and you'll see "Gini, equiv disposable household income" right there on the graph. Isn't the shape of that curve familiar? It's exactly the same data I posted, showing that "income inequality has moved fuck all in 20 years". The very same data you immediately attempted to discredit.

And, in spite of the fact that, while you claim the data's from statistics NZ, the publisher seems to make no such claim. Which would normally immediately write them off as a credible reference, except...

Not that I doubt that's what the source was. Mainly because the graph itself is credited to that world renowned mathematician Max Roser, the very same guy that produced the graph I originally referenced. In fact I'd say the chances are that it's been pulled from that exact site.

You really should find another hobby, dude. :laugh:



Depends. If he's charging more than I want to pay I'd find someone else or do the job myself.

If you like work co-ops then I'm sure you can find one that can find a use for your skills mate. I'm sure the community spirit will make up for the 3rd world living conditions.


sorry fella that looks like its gone up to me , 25 to 36

and, if as you say, its the same data ,,,,,,,


spec savers might be your next port of call


snip;Has overall inequality increased in recent years?
<tbody class="row-hover">

No, the Gini coefficient has been relatively stable around 32 percent since 1996. However, it rose by 7 percentage points between 1988 and 1996.


Have there been periods when overall inequality fell for a sustained period?
Yes, from mid-1950s to mid-1970s.


Has poverty been falling or rising in recent decades?
Poverty has substantially increased from 1996 to 2004 before decreasing mildly till 2009.

</tbody>

[Ocean1]

sorry fella that looks like its gone up to me , 25 to 36

and, if as you say, its the same data ,,,,,,,


spec savers might be your next port of call

I said 20 years, not the full range of the string.

And actually you're right, your graph shows 2009 Gini at 32.3, the original shows 2009 Gini at 32.9.

And you didn't spot that? Want to borrow my glasses?

Edit: and it's polite to point out postpost editing, dude. However I see you've found that "Poverty has substantially increased from 1996 to 2004 before decreasing mildly till 2009."

Want to post up the source and definition?

[Brian d marge]

I said 20 years, not the full range of the string.

And actually you're right, your graph shows 2009 Gini at 32.3, the original shows 2009 Gini at 32.9.

And you didn't spot that? Want to borrow my glasses?
So it's ok for the Gini climb post reforms as long as it stays stable around 32

You know the answer .

sent for a divine source

[Ocean1]

So it's ok for the Gini climb post reforms as long as it stays stable around 32

You know the answer .

sent for a divine source

As long as I'm free to sell my services and buy others at prices we both agree on I don't give a fuck where the Gini is.

It's just when fuckwits like you decide they know how to spend everyone else's money better than they do that I notice a lack of coherent answers. Usually none at all.

Now, I'm sick of showing you're wrong, fuck off.

[Brian d marge]

As long as I'm free to sell my services and buy others at prices we both agree on I don't give a fuck where the Gini is.

It's just when fuckwits like you decide they know how to spend everyone else's money better than they do that I notice a lack of coherent answers. Usually none at all.

Now, I'm sick of showing you're wrong, fuck off.

you should give a fk where the gini is , as its your community your shitting on ,,,,,,

Have never told you or anyone else how or what they should do with their money,.. no....HOWEVER , Living in a society in which everyone gets a fair shake IS MY PRIORITY , and if that means highlighting the causes of the problems, one, being white van man and his flawed logic then fine , I will happily pick up that baton,

Now as for being sick, yes The more you type the more stupid you look , so yes , i would give up as well

[Stylo]

you should give a fk where the gini is , as its your community your shitting on ,,,,,,

Have never told you or anyone else how or what they should do with their money,.. no....HOWEVER , Living in a society in which everyone gets a fair shake IS MY PRIORITY , and if that means highlighting the causes of the problems, one, being white van man and his flawed logic then fine , I will happily pick up that baton,

Now as for being sick, yes The more you type the more stupid you look , so yes , i would give up as well

Give it up guys, no argument will ever be settled in this forum, or any forum for that matter.

Move on ....

[yokel]

Give it up guys, no argument will ever be settled in this forum, or any forum for that matter.

Move on ....

Debating shit online is like trying to win a round of shadow boxing.

[Hemi Makutu]

Give it up guys, no argument will ever be settled in this forum, or any forum for that matter.

"But if you want to argue - you'll have to pay.. will it be 5 minutes, or the full 1/2 hour?"

( Monty Python mob had more'n a few clues, y'know..)..

[bogan]

How is it beside the point to point out that the cost of social spending can only be met by productive members of society?

Is it significant that there isn't a question mark, there? And yes, I think that people who are good at obtaining personal wealth have their views on "socialist" aspects of society skewed by the fact that it's their taxes that pay for them, and often their incomes that deny them the resulting benefits. And I'd say that makes for a perfectly relevant experience requirement for social spending policy decisions.

Maybe it's not a factor in selection of a best policy set for prosperity. There's certainly no shortage of violently committed socialist fuckwits underfoot, and there's no chance whatsoever of them ever supplying anything vaguely resembling prosperity.

Don't forget the laywers and artificial inseminaters.

Because it is pretty obvious; and the point being discussed is who makes the best decisions for society as a whole.

Nah, just often forget to add them when doing lists. That sort of thinking is predicated on you already having made a decision for society, namely, that those who contribute more (I've already agreed contributing to a basic level should be a prerequisite but not a scalar) should get more of a say in how it is run. How should society actually decide if that should be the case or not?

Indeed, as are the conspiracy theorists and anti-govt'rs, erroneous conviction is rife.

[bogan]

Obamacare, national debt, poor support for law enforcement, bad military strategies, stirring racial tensions (see poor support for law enforcement), ridiculous firearms rules that don't keep guns out of the hands of the baddies, the Iran deal, fuck that guy.

Trump has already stirred racial tensions, voiced poor military strategy (obviously has been unable to enact it), been bankrupt a few times too hasn't he, made some shady as fuck deals... Seems to me the outlook is not good for that new guy either...

[jasonu]

Debating shit online is like trying to win a round of shadow boxing.

Better than looking at Shortbread St...

[Ocean1]

you should give a fk where the gini is , as its your community your shitting on ,,,,,,

Have never told you or anyone else how or what they should do with their money,.. no....HOWEVER , Living in a society in which everyone gets a fair shake IS MY PRIORITY , and if that means highlighting the causes of the problems, one, being white van man and his flawed logic then fine , I will happily pick up that baton,

Now as for being sick, yes The more you type the more stupid you look , so yes , i would give up as well

Tell you what, dude, you pay your plumber with your hard earned cash whatever you like.

And let everyone else do exactly the same, eh?


Actually, now that you mention it I pay mine a deal more than I get, I'll have to balance the Gini there by cutting the fuck out of his hourly rate...

[mashman]

Give it up guys, no argument will ever be settled in this forum, or any forum for that matter.

Move on ....

Butcha get fuckloads of information ya wouldn't normally go looking for. Ocean lost a long time ago. The rest is smiley smiley window dressing.

[yokel]

Better than looking at Shortbread St...

This is for you, you unedumacated bigot.


https://youtu.be/BFvvTvzyKSc

[jasonu]

This is for you, you unedumacated bigot.


https://youtu.be/BFvvTvzyKSc

Right on Sista!!!!!

[Brian d marge]

The ides of March are come.
Soothsayer: Ay, Caesar; but not gone.

Dearest Donald , history repeats......

[husaberg]

The ides of March are come.
Soothsayer: Ay, Caesar; but not gone.

Dearest Donald , history repeats......

I think you will find hes more of a cross between Caligula and Nero.

Caligula (12-41 AD), Roman Emperor, whose final words were "I am still alive !" he dies soon after, as a result of being stabbed by his own guards.

Nero couldn't even find a guard loyal enough to be willing to kill him.
His last words were, "Qualis artifex pereo." ("What an artist the world loses in me.")
Or "Too late! This is fidelity!" depending on the account

[Brian d marge]

I think you will find hes more of a cross between Caligula and Nero.

Caligula (12-41 AD), Roman Emperor, whose final words were "I am still alive !" he dies soon after, as a result of being stabbed by his own guards.

Nero couldn't even find a guard loyal enough to be willing to kill him.
His last words were, "Qualis artifex pereo." ("What an artist the world loses in me.")
Or "Too late! This is fidelity!" depending on the account

very good , I like that ...

I tried , but the computer told me I ....
must spread me cheeks ...

[husaberg]

very good , I like that ...

I tried , but the computer told me I ....
must spread me cheeks ...

Sounds like a virus.:shutup:

[BuzzardNZ]

I think you will find hes more of a cross between Caligula and Nero.

Caligula (12-41 AD), Roman Emperor, whose final words were "I am still alive !" he dies soon after, as a result of being stabbed by his own guards.

Nero couldn't even find a guard loyal enough to be willing to kill him.
His last words were, "Qualis artifex pereo." ("What an artist the world loses in me.")
Or "Too late! This is fidelity!" depending on the account


Why am I not surprised you brought this up...


http://wikireedia.net/wikireedia/index.php?title=Caligula_-_Sex_and_Sexual_Perversions

[Katman]

Why am I not surprised you brought this up...


http://wikireedia.net/wikireedia/index.php?title=Caligula_-_Sex_and_Sexual_Perversions

I'm beginning to wonder if his surname is Podesta.

[husaberg]

Why am I not surprised you brought this up...


http://wikireedia.net/wikireedia/index.php?title=Caligula_-_Sex_and_Sexual_Perversions

I guessing you missed the bottom of my signature, that’s normally a bit of a clue.
Then again you clearly don’t have many……..

[BuzzardNZ]

I guessing you missed the bottom of my signature, that’s normally a bit of a clue.
Then again you clearly don’t have many……..

No, I've seen your signature, see


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/174536-Hello-friends-(koi)/page9


Your signature makes perfect sense in an awfully hideous kinda way.

[husaberg]

No, I've seen your signature, see


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/174536-Hello-friends-(koi)/page9


Your signature makes perfect sense in an awfully hideous kinda way.

Cool, now humour me by showing me the post where i said i wanted to mouth fuck a 8 year old girl like your old mate Azkel.

It's obvious to most that you prefer boys under the age of 14 and clearly some even younger than that as you stated back in June
''i will fuck your children in the mouth'' 15th June 2016 19:44 Akzle

Even your online Bromantic liaisons stay clear of that comment.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/174536-Hello-friends-(koi)?p=1131014019#post1131014019

[pritch]

Some here have seemed confused about what the Electoral College in the US is. Larry Lessig, Professor of Law at the Harvard Law School has written an article in the Washington Post. One of his areas of expertise is copyright, particularly as it applies in the age of the Internet, and he had been working with Aaron Schwartz. He also made a submission to the NZ court in the Kim Dot Com et al extradition case.

In this instance though his topic is the Electoral College and its function. The article explains why it's there and how he thinks it should operate. I found his conclusion somewhat startling, I hope he's not holding his breath.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-constitution-lets-the-electoral-college-choose-the-winner-they-should-choose-clinton/2016/11/24/0f431828-b0f7-11e6-8616-52b15787add0_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop&utm_term=.c5b8690ca49a

[yokel]

Some here have seemed confused about what the Electoral College in the US is. Larry Lessig, Professor of Law at the Harvard, Law School has written an article in the Washington Post. One of his areas of expertise is copyright, particularly as it applies in the age of the Internet, and he had been working with Aaron Schwartz. He also made a submission to the NZ court in the Kim Dot Com et al extradition case.

In this instance though his topic is the Electoral College and its function. The article explains why it's there and how he thinks it should operate. I found his conclusion somewhat startling, I hope he's not holding his breath.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-constitution-lets-the-electoral-college-choose-the-winner-they-should-choose-clinton/2016/11/24/0f431828-b0f7-11e6-8616-52b15787add0_story.html?tid=pm_opinions_pop&utm_term=.c5b8690ca49a

Ha, what a load of wishful thinking garbage.
They don't campaign to get the "popular vote" so the popular vote is irrelevant.
The reason Hillary did well in the popular vote comes down to being inflated be the blatantly biased media.

Trump won in a landslide slide, the dishonest media seems to miss this fact.

[yokel]

Another case of involuntary suicide connected to the Clintons


https://youtu.be/kdUGlwOkRTA

[Grumph]

Perhaps this is why Yokel is such a fanboi....

[Banditbandit]

Ha, what a load of wishful thinking garbage.
They don't campaign to get the "popular vote" so the popular vote is irrelevant.
The reason Hillary did well in the popular vote comes down to being inflated be the blatantly biased media.

Trump won in a landslide slide, the dishonest media seems to miss this fact.

When Hillary won the popular vote how can you say Trump won by a landslide?

[pritch]

Trump's people have already claimed they have a mandate. For the benefit of the hard of thinking, if there are more votes cast against you than for you, you don't have a landslide nor do you have a mandate.

[TheDemonLord]

When Hillary won the popular vote how can you say Trump won by a landslide?

Well, based on the method of voting in the US (first passed the post, by state) then he won by a Landslide.

[Brian d marge]

Well, based on the method of voting in the US (first passed the post, by state) then he won by a Landslide.

Not yet he aint

[jasonu]

When Hillary won the popular vote how can you say Trump won by a landslide?

I don't think you are that stupid.

[oldrider]

Well, based on the method of voting in the US (first passed the post, by state) then he won by a Landslide.

Seems logical - have to agree with that! :yes:

[Banditbandit]

I don't think you are that stupid.

I do understand the US crazy electoral system ... and the Electoral College has yet to vote ...

[yokel]

When Hillary won the popular vote how can you say Trump won by a landslide?

Seen as there's no competition for the popular vote, Hillary won nothing dumb arse.


I do understand the US crazy electoral system ... and the Electoral College has yet to vote ...

The electoral college vote is just a formality.

[pritch]

and the Electoral College has yet to vote ...

True. They are supposed to support the will of the people. Also to act as a safeguard against mass hysteria on the part of the public in case they elected somebody like Trump. Not likely though.

The Republicans have been almost universally pusillanimous, when they do find their balls they'll need to do it in numbers or they'll just be bullied into silence.
Take Ted Cruz (and many probably wish someone would), Trump said Cruz's wife was ugly and that his father was involved in the plot to kill President kennedy.
As soon as Trump is elected there's Cruz looking for a job. :sick:

[Grumph]

Given that Trump is demonstrably capable of holding a grudge - see the dropping of Christie due to history with Trumps extended family - and the reported desire to back away from better relations with Cuba....
One has to wonder if Trump's old man was one of the US investors who had property in Cuba nationalised by Castro.

If he does go back to the freeze, it's a major step backwards.

[husaberg]

Given that Trump is demonstrably capable of holding a grudge - see the dropping of Christie due to history with Trumps extended family - and the reported desire to back away from better relations with Cuba....
One has to wonder if Trump's old man was one of the US investors who had property in Cuba nationalised by Castro.

If he does go back to the freeze, it's a major step backwards.

Nah he wants to set up a Casino and Golf course their his son and many excec's have already been there ( strictly on holiday mind you) its against the law for Americans to visit Cuba for business of course:lol:
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-donald-trump-golf-cuba/
http://www.ibtimes.com/trump-casino-cuba-donald-trump-reportedly-explored-doing-business-cuba-violation-us-2424258

[yokel]

Also to act as a safeguard against mass hysteria on the part of the public in case they elected somebody like Trump.



What the fucking stupid are you on about??

The best thing about this election is all the upset confused bigoted ignorant briandead so called liberals that can't fathom how and why Trump won in a landslide.

The poor dumb cunts are in complete denial looking for any way possible to escape reality.

They're bunch of shameless twots.


https://youtu.be/CEScRn-nPvY

[pete376403]

Electoral college is not entirely even-handed. It would be an interesting exercise to do the same calculation for all states.

[husaberg]

What the fucking stupid are you on about??

The best thing about this election is all the upset confused bigoted ignorant briandead so called liberals that can't fathom how and why Trump won in a landslide.

The poor dumb cunts are in complete denial looking for any way possible to escape reality.

They're bunch of shameless twots.

https://youtu.be/CEScRn-nPvY

Who is Brian and when did Brian Die?:laugh:

[Brian d marge]

Who is Brian When did Brian Die?[emoji23]
Hang on a min , I may be old but Im still here unfortunately

sent for a divine source

[husaberg]

Hang on a min , I may be old but Im still here unfortunately

sent for a divine source
So Yokel is talking shit then?:lol:
http://wtfprofessor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/150110-memegenerator.net-Unexpected-TJM.jpg

[HenryDorsetCase]

My favourite thing: America's new name: Trumpistan.

I also find it fascinating that someone who chose the name "yokel" for themselves would be wanking on about liberals and such. You might think that someone called "yokel" might identify with a racist, misogynist, bigoted fuckwit with tiny hands.

And you would be right, it seems.

[husaberg]

I also find it fascinating that someone who chose the name "yokel" for themselves would be wanking on about liberals and such. You might think that someone called "yokel" might identify with a racist, misogynist, bigoted fuckwit with tiny hands.

And you would be right, it seems.

Ssshh he just gone international
326544

[oldrider]

Syrian Government Forces Are Close to Full Liberation of Aleppo City - progress? :corn: http://www.globalresearch.ca/syrian-government-forces-are-close-to-full-liberation-of-aleppo-city/5559697


<iframe width="690" height="400" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dJ0v3CAxf4k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[pritch]

I was listening to the BBC the other day and there was a report, well more of a post mortem really, about an incident where the Americans and their allies Britain, Australia, and whoever, were bombing the wrong dudes.

Apparently there is a 'hot line' allowing quick communication between the Russians and the Yanks so as to avoid potentially fatal mid air confusion. The hot line proved to be only luke warm as the bombing continued for the best part of half an hour after the call advising of the fuck up was made.

[oldrider]

Another example of American bullshit about Syria!

How low can you go | US State Department | November 28th 2016

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cZfI_cnNtDw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

Trump’s USA: Global Empire or Fortress America? - Interesting? :corn:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MQ0wFjuA7Ls" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Katman]

Another example of American bullshit about Syria!

If the bullshit that that motherfucker spouts wasn't so absolutely sickening, it would be fucking hilarious.

[oldrider]

Article on America’s Wars: Can We Please Get Rid of the “Pledge of Allegiance”? - short read :http://www.globalresearch.ca/americas-wars-can-we-please-get-rid-of-the-pledge-of-allegiance/5543745?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles :corn:

[jasonu]

I didn't fact check this but if it is even close to true it is very interesting.


There are 3,141 counties in the United States.

Trump won 3,084 of them.
Clinton won 57.

There are 62 counties in New York State.

Trump won 46 of them.
Clinton won 16.

Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes.

In the 5 counties that encompass NYC, (Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond & Queens) Clinton received well over 2 million more votes than Trump. (Clinton only won 4 of these counties; Trump won Richmond)

Therefore these 5 counties alone, more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country.

These 5 counties comprise 319 square miles.
The United States is comprised of 3, 797,000 square miles.

When you have a country that encompasses almost 4 million square miles of territory, it would be ludicrous to even suggest that the vote of those who inhabit a mere 319 square miles should dictate the outcome of a national election.

Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) don't, and SHOULDN'T speak for the rest of the country.

That's why there is an Electoral vote process, go back and educate yourselves,...OH, maybe you didn't finish high school. Too busy smoking pot and shopping for Birkenstock's???

[bogan]

I didn't fact check this

Which is exactly what the fuck is wrong with voters; how US got to this mess, and how Brexit happened.

Obviously that claim is bullshit, use your fucking brain.

[oldrider]

Which is exactly what the fuck is wrong with voters; how US got to this mess, and how Brexit happened.

Obviously that claim is bullshit, use your fucking brain.

Yeah right! - You are your avatar! :doh:

[bogan]

Yeah right! - You are your avatar! :doh:

If you would like to discuss the fact checking of jasonu's post, you could start with snopes...

[husaberg]

Clinton won the popular vote by approx. 1.5 million votes.

In the 5 counties that encompass NYC, (Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan, Richmond & Queens) Clinton received well over 2 million more votes than Trump. (Clinton only won 4 of these counties; Trump won Richmond)

Therefore these 5 counties alone, more than accounted for Clinton winning the popular vote of the entire country.

These 5 counties comprise 319 square miles.

Large, densely populated Democrat cities (NYC, Chicago, LA, etc) don't, and SHOULDN'T speak for the rest of the country.


Isn't Trump both from and based in New York, Odd he seems to have little home town support? Jason.
Clinton was a senator for New York but was born and raised elsewhere?

[Katman]

.... you could start with snopes...

:killingme

[jasonu]

Which is exactly what the fuck is wrong with voters; how US got to this mess, and how Brexit happened.

Obviously that claim is bullshit, use your fucking brain.

Take it easy sista. I never said it was true or otherwise. I don't have the time or interest in digging into it. All I said was it is interesting if actually true. Maybe try reading a bit slower before you reply so as not to embarrass yourself...

[bogan]

Take it easy sista. I never said it was true or otherwise. I don't have the time or interest in digging into it. All I said was it is interesting if actually true. Maybe try reading a bit slower before you reply so as not to embarrass yourself...

Maybe try fact checking your bullshit, so as not to embarrass yourself. And perhaps you should read bit slower, since I didn't say that you thought it was true; just that perpetuating bullshit without bothering to fact check it is what is wrong with voters these days.

[Grumph]

Maybe try fact checking your bullshit, so as not to embarrass yourself. And perhaps you should read bit slower, since I didn't say that you thought it was true; just that perpetuating bullshit without bothering to fact check it is what is wrong with voters these days.

I was highly amused - and a tad frightened - to see on a US bike forum that a lot of them were objecting to the Bill going forward aimed at shutting down the "disinformation" false news websites. They described it as the bill banning the truth....

What seems to be wrong with US voters anyway is a simple lack of belief that anyone can speak the truth. It's probably got to the point where they wouldn't recognise the truth anyway.

[Katman]

I was highly amused - and a tad frightened - to see on a US bike forum that a lot of them were objecting to the Bill going forward aimed at shutting down the "disinformation" false news websites. They described it as the bill banning the truth....

And so they should be objecting.

The day that the government gets to dictate what we are supposed to believe as the truth, is the day they will have completely fucked us over.

[bogan]

I was highly amused - and a tad frightened - to see on a US bike forum that a lot of them were objecting to the Bill going forward aimed at shutting down the "disinformation" false news websites. They described it as the bill banning the truth....

What seems to be wrong with US voters anyway is a simple lack of belief that anyone can speak the truth. It's probably got to the point where they wouldn't recognise the truth anyway.

Which just highlights the tricky bits of such a bill. Firstly, that it cannot be used in such a way to shut down the actual truth; secondly, that it cannot be applied in such a way that the public see it as shutting down the 'truth' and take to believing the disinformation on that basis.

The internet is a relatively new phenomenon, and these echo chambers and false news/fact sites even more so; I'm hoping people (readers and news orgs/vlogs/etc) will learn to adapt to the landscape of disinformation and apply basic fact checking to prevent the drivel from going viral.

[yokel]

When the likes of the BBC that are the "experts" at identifying and flushing out paedophiles tell you that "pizzagate" is just another "fake news" story I guess we must trust them?


https://youtu.be/zooTbQ4G128

The fact that these cunts think that they have the authority over what is the truth is just a fucking joke.

[Brian d marge]

When the likes of the BBC that are the "experts" at identifying and flushing out paedophiles tell you that "pizzagate" is just another "fake news" story I guess we must trust them?


https://youtu.be/zooTbQ4G128

The fact that these cunts think that they have the authority over what is the truth is just a fucking joke.
The BBC would be the definitive experts
Half of them are at it
So yes I'd they try and squash this story , it must be true hahahahahaaaaaaa

sent for a divine source

[mashman]

I was highly amused - and a tad frightened - to see on a US bike forum that a lot of them were objecting to the Bill going forward aimed at shutting down the "disinformation" false news websites. They described it as the bill banning the truth....

What seems to be wrong with US voters anyway is a simple lack of belief that anyone can speak the truth. It's probably got to the point where they wouldn't recognise the truth anyway.

I seem to remember a few years ago that the u.s. passed a bill that allowed MSM to show news that they knew was faked.

[oldrider]

I was highly amused - and a tad frightened - to see on a US bike forum that a lot of them were objecting to the Bill going forward aimed at shutting down the "disinformation" false news websites. They described it as the bill banning the truth....

What seems to be wrong with US voters anyway is a simple lack of belief that anyone can speak the truth. It's probably got to the point where they wouldn't recognise the truth anyway.

Speaking the truth? - :scratch: - Who's truth? - :whistle:

Try speaking or questioning the truth about Israel or for that matter anything Jewish and see how far you get without ridicule and condemnation! - :corn:

[Brian d marge]

I seem to remember a few years ago that the u.s. passed a bill that allowed MSM to show news that they knew was faked.
Yes that right it went to the court who upheld the decision

sent for a divine source

[HenryDorsetCase]

Watching 'Mrka turn into an overt fascist dictatorship is fun and all, but I think the future first lady has something going for her.

[yokel]

The BBC would be the definitive experts
Half of them are at it
So yes I'd they try and squash this story , it must be true hahahahahaaaaaaa

sent for a divine source

When the MSM keep calling it "fake news" means it is most definitely not fake.

It is real and the shit is going to hit the fan.



https://youtu.be/bDUA7i1hxBw

[Brian d marge]

When the MSM keep calling it "fake news" means it is most definitely not fake.

It is real and the shit is going to hit the fan.



https://youtu.be/bDUA7i1hxBw
Absolutely

The Brits have sent a taskforce to the south china sea
Don't know how big or what composed of ...
But , even a limited spat would ruin my social life big time
Buy weapons. Stock pile beer , and some chocolate for the missus and hope it dont go nuclear



sent for a divine source

[jasonu]

Trump has won another best of a bad bunch race.

http://www.ktvz.com/news/national-world/trump-named-times-person-of-the-year/199868843

[pritch]

Trump has won another best of a bad bunch race.

http://www.ktvz.com/news/national-world/trump-named-times-person-of-the-year/199868843

I'm not of a mind to buy the magazine to find out why, but Trump is not happy with Time magazine. He may have won, and that's usually all that matters to him, but Time must have been less than complimentary in their comments.

I see that he is also unhappy with Boeing over something someone said. He wants to scrap the new Air Force One project. He'd probably miss the gold fittings in his own Boeing.

The (two) aircraft designed to operate as the Presidential flight are fully equipped to operate as a mobile national command centre, but are also fitted with all the anti-missile and in-flight refuelling equipment usually only found on military aircraft.

A far cry from the unreliable "bargain" Boeing that the NZ PM uses.

[oldrider]

I'm not of a mind to buy the magazine to find out why, but Trump is not happy with Time magazine. He may have won, and that's usually all that matters to him, but Time must have been less than complimentary in their comments.

I see that he is also unhappy with Boeing over something someone said. He wants to scrap the new Air Force One project. He'd probably miss the gold fittings in his own Boeing.

The (two) aircraft designed to operate as the Presidential flight are fully equipped to operate as a mobile national command centre, but are also fitted with all the anti-missile and in-flight refuelling equipment usually only found on military aircraft.

A far cry from the unreliable "bargain" Boeing that the NZ PM uses.

Trump interview way back at the outset:

<iframe width="425" height="319" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Buz5DEcoISg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

And here he is President of the USA - who'd of thought, way back then! - Old adage "do or die" - Well? - is he doing or is he dead man walking? :scratch: . :corn:

[yokel]

Thank God that tyrant Hillary Satan lost.
I'm sure they're all working feverishly behind the seans to somehow overturn the result.


https://youtu.be/iBDedvplyTQ

[bogan]

This is a pretty good summary of the 'pizzagate' and poor voter/media ethics/intelligence. Such behavior deserves nothing less than contempt, yet that state of the world is such that it must be given more than that, lest it spread through the unwitting and naive.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tfXWXNItF_Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[yokel]

This is a pretty good summary of the 'pizzagate' and poor voter/media ethics/intelligence. Such behavior deserves nothing less than contempt, yet that state of the world is such that it must be given more than that, lest it spread through the unwitting and naive.



Yeah according to fake stream media "pizzagate" is fake news and Hillary is going to win the election.

Go on the dark web and order yourself a "cheese pizza"

Enjoy.

Trying to make satire news out of the subject of pedophilia is fucking bad taste.

That clown in that vid can go fuck himself.

[bogan]

Yeah according to fake stream media "pizzagate" is fake news and Hillary is going to win the election.

Go on the dark web and order yourself a "cheese pizza"

Enjoy.

Trying to make satire news out of the subject of pedophilia is fucking bad taste.

That clown in that vid can go fuck himself.

The satire is of the morons who believed the pizzagate nonsense.

The story has not one shred of evidence, yet fake-news/conpiracy-theorys/self-delusions, are now so prolific that people still believe it, and dismiss any line of questioning or investigation as 'Main Stream Media' lies. There once was a time when news 'streams' were judged by how accurate and informative their news was, not simply on whether or not is was what one wanted to hear; and that is what is in bad taste here, FSM adherents want to believe this child prostitution story.

[yokel]

The satire is of the morons who believed the pizzagate nonsense.

The story has not one shred of evidence, yet fake-news/conpiracy-theorys/self-delusions, are now so prolific that people still believe it, and dismiss any line of questioning or investigation as 'Main Stream Media' lies. There once was a time when news 'streams' were judged by how accurate and informative their news was, not simply on whether or not is was what one wanted to hear; and that is what is in bad taste here, FSM adherents want to believe this child prostitution story.

Tell me how that political pedophile inquiry in the UK is going?
You know that one that sent a NZ judge back home.

The MSM is totally discredited, so when they say it's fake news 50,000 Times then it must be true.

Just look at how Jimmy Savile was protected by the BBC.

[bogan]

Tell me how that political pedophile inquiry in the UK is going?
You know that one that sent a NZ judge back home.

The MSM is totally discredited, so when they say it's fake news 50,000 Times then it must be true.

Fucked if I know, I'm just not that in touch with the world of pedophilia.

Either way it is going, I don't think you understand how logic works. Just because a news source may be wrong at one time, does not mean it must always be wrong, and it certainly does not mean you use that source as a benchmark to determine what is wrong. And, MSM is not a news source, it is a grouping used to describe multiple sources, it is illogic to assume the bad traits of one or two carry to the whole group simply because you can group them together.

[Katman]

Fucked if I know, I'm just not that in touch with the world of pedophilia.

You seem awfully certain that nothing's going on though.


....it is illogic to assume the bad traits of one or two carry to the whole group simply because you can group them together.

And the same could be said about the 'alternative' news sites.

[bogan]

You seem awfully certain that nothing's going on though.



And the same could be said about the alternative 'news' site.

Ah, the fan club's following me around for some more contextual nitpickery and beige insults. Is this post going to get deleted as well? or will it last the distance...

Anyway, the thing about rational evaluation, is you don't have to jump to all the conclusions with no evidence (it's actually discouraged, FYI).

It's almost like no matter the site/stream/media, the story should be evaluated for it's accuracy.

[Katman]

Ah, the fan club's following me around for some more contextual nitpickery and beige insults.

Really? You saw an insult in my previous post?

If you did, you should probably report it.

I hear the moderators are cracking down on that sort of thing.

[yokel]

Fucked if I know, I'm just not that in touch with the world of pedophilia.

Either way it is going, I don't think you understand how logic works. Just because a news source may be wrong at one time, does not mean it must always be wrong, and it certainly does not mean you use that source as a benchmark to determine what is wrong. And, MSM is not a news source, it is a grouping used to describe multiple sources, it is illogic to assume the bad traits of one or two carry to the whole group simply because you can group them together.

So you don't know shit from clay.
You keep believing what Clinton shill tells you.



https://youtu.be/En0F8o1Ei2M



https://youtu.be/esKnWAIgpLY

[bogan]

So you don't know shit from clay.
You keep believing what Clinton shill tells you.

I keep believing what the evidence (the actual verifiable stuff, not inflated misinterpreted circumstantial garbage as in those videos) points to; there is nothing pointing to such a prostitution ring. You have heard a conspiracy nutter went in there with a gun (blazing) to find evidence right? how did that turn out?

[yokel]

I keep believing what the evidence (the actual verifiable stuff, not inflated misinterpreted circumstantial garbage as in those videos) points to; there is nothing pointing to such a prostitution ring. You have heard a conspiracy nutter went in there with a gun (blazing) to find evidence right? how did that turn out?

I'm sure you 'd love to get your chops around this guys pizza?

https://img1.steemit.com/0x0/https://i.imgsafe.org/cd2c7b2bf9.jpeg

[pritch]

I hear the moderators are cracking down on that sort of thing.

Not anywhere near hard enough though. :whistle:

[Katman]

Either way it is going, I don't think you understand how logic works. Just because a news source may be wrong at one time, does not mean it must always be wrong, and it certainly does not mean you use that source as a benchmark to determine what is wrong. And, MSM is not a news source, it is a grouping used to describe multiple sources, it is illogic to assume the bad traits of one or two carry to the whole group simply because you can group them together.

So how do you reconcile the fact that the Pentagon paid over half a billion dollars to a British PR company to produce fake terror videos?

It's absolutely ludicrous that anyone could defend the allegations being made by TPTB of fake news, when they have been so blatantly exposed doing exactly that.

[bogan]

So how do you reconcile the fact that the Pentagon paid over half a billion dollars to a British PR company to produce fake terror videos?

It's absolutely ludicrous that anyone could defend the allegations being made by TPTB of fake news, when they have been so blatantly exposed doing exactly that.

Is that actually a fact, or fake news in itself? because it sure seems like the latter.

Hypocrisy of the source has no bearing on the validity of an allegation. Fake news is a problem, no matter the source.

[onearmedbandit]

Really? You saw an insult in my previous post?

If you did, you should probably report it.

I hear the moderators are cracking down on that sort of thing.

All good, we put it through analysis with our KB-Insultometer-dynamatron and it passed. Infraction guns set to stun.

[Katman]

Is that actually a fact, or fake news in itself? because it sure seems like the latter.

Have you even bothered to look into it or are you just guessing?

[bogan]

Have you even bothered to look into it or are you just guessing?

Let's find out, post your evidence backed findings to show it is true and correct news, rather than the proliferation of fake news so common in these anti-govt echo chambers. Unless you didn't bother to look into it yourself, and are just parroting back more echo chamber drivel that you want to hear. My guess, is of course the latter.

[Katman]

Let's find out, post your evidence backed findings to show it is true and correct news, rather than the proliferation of fake news so common in these anti-govt echo chambers. Unless you didn't bother to look into it yourself, and are just parroting back more echo chamber drivel that you want to hear. My guess, is of course the latter.

If you're not bothered to look into it yourself, that's your business.

[bogan]

If you're not bothered to look into it yourself, that's your business.

If you're not bothered to justify the stories you promote as fact, that's how fake news takes hold and becomes a problem. This particular item has some parts of truth to it, but has been taken out of context, and there is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that over half a billion dollars to a British PR company to produce fake terror videos. The weak minded believe it though, since it is repeated on many fake news sites, but also links to sites and sources with the true parts in it, to add the appearance of validity to the fabricated conclusions.

[Katman]

If you're not bothered to justify the stories you promote as fact, that's how fake news takes hold and becomes a problem. This particular item has some parts of truth to it, but has been taken out of context, and there is absolutely no evidence to support the claim that over half a billion dollars to a British PR company to produce fake terror videos. The weak minded believe it though, since it is repeated on many fake news sites, but also links to sites and sources with the true parts in it, to add the appearance of validity to the fabricated conclusions.

Dude, I'm well aware that no amount of 'evidence' will sway you once you've made up your mind.

Eggforbrains.

[bogan]

Dude, I'm well aware that no amount of 'evidence' will sway you once you've made up your mind.

Eggforbrains.

That's the sort of cop out we've come to expect from fake news proponents. You know on some level the story is fake, so must avoid any reasoned discourse into its validity at all costs. Early on it's obviously blame the reader for being ignorant and expect them to waste time verifying it (or be conned by the frequency of its reposts), next is generally insults and bullying, then finally it'll be off to the next bit of fake news.

Katman, go sit in the corner with Yokel, you've both posted enough fake news drivel this week.

[Katman]

....next is generally insults and bullying.....

:killingme

You're extremely thin-skinned, aren't you?

[bogan]

:killingme

You're extremely thin-skinned, aren't you?

Just bored of your false facts and other bullshit. I'm not quite sure why you pick out the bits of my posts identifying your propensity for insults instead of robust discussion as some sort of, well, who the fuck knows, or cares...

[Grumph]

Meanwhile, back in verifiable news....I see Trump is proposing welfare cuts and raising the retirement age.

One of his campaign promises was no cuts but better management with less waste.
This from a guy who pays no tax.....

[Katman]

Interesting too that many people are up in arms about the possibility of Russian interference in the election campaign - conveniently forgetting the American interference that helped get Boris Yeltsin re-elected back in 1996.

[pritch]

If I was Edward Snowden I'd be getting nervous. Donald Trump and Putin seem to be in each other's pockets - for the moment anyway.

Also I read today that Ivanka Trump's company was trading with Iran all through the sanctions period. Of course that could be fake news? It does fit the family pattern though, whereby conventions or laws don't matter as long as the Trumps make money.

[pete376403]

Funny, all theough the election Trump was saying "the election is rigged, folks, its rigged" but now evidence points to it being rigged he's "nah, that ridiculous"

[Brian d marge]

Just wait .. see what he does...

sent for a divine source

[pritch]

It is difficult to tell what's fake news and what's not. Virtually everything Trump says is a lie. His latest utterances that the CIA claims of Russian hacking are ridiculous, that the Republican party wasn't hacked, and that you can't tell after the fact who the attackers were, are all false.

The FBI told the Republican party back in June that some of their emails had been hacked and that there was a national investigation underway. Kevin Mitnick says, take it from someone who knows, hacking can be tracked afterward.

The "electors", the actual people who vote in the electoral college, are requesting a CIA briefing on the hacking prior to casting their vote. Some of the electors are bound to vote how their state voted, others can change their vote; with or without penalty

A Democrat party funder is attempting to launch prosecutions against Trump, Giuliani, Comey, and others for treason.

It's all entertaining now but it may get scary sooner rather than later.

[Katman]

The FBI told the Republican party back in June that some of their emails had been hacked and that there was a national investigation underway. Kevin Mitnick says, take it from someone who knows, hacking can be tracked afterward.

It makes you wonder why the CIA haven't managed to provide any actual proof to back up their allegations.

But I'm sure their word is good enough for bogan though.

'Cos there's no way that the CIA would ever be guilty of fake news. No way.

Right bogan?

:rolleyes:

http://theantimedia.org/media-ignoring-russia-hillary-losing/

[Brian d marge]

Allen Dulles , ..I used to sit in Mein Komfy chair and listen to his stories of the old country

sent for a divine source

[bogan]

It makes you wonder why the CIA haven't managed to provide any actual proof to back up their allegations.

But I'm sure their word is good enough for bogan though.

'Cos there's no way that the CIA would ever be guilty of fake news. No way.

Right bogan?

:rolleyes:

http://theantimedia.org/media-ignoring-russia-hillary-losing/

How could you possibly think that simply their word would be good enough for me? I've said time and time again that allegations/theories/news needs to be backed up with transparent proof and evidence. Let go of the whole distinction between TPTB/MSM and Alt/Conspiracy theories, your fixation on the source makes you sound like a crazy person.

[Katman]

, your fixation on the source makes you sound like a crazy person.

Just like your fixation of labelling anything you don't agree with as a 'Conspiracy Theory'.

[bogan]

Just like your fixation of labelling anything you don't agree with as a 'Conspiracy Theory'.

Which is patently untrue. Many things I have not agreed with have not been named conspiracy theories (even your pentagon fake news from yesterday wasn't); but things like 911, chemtrails, etc are all based on the premise that TPTB are up to something, that there is a conspiracy, so it is only fitting and correct they are labeled as conspiracy theories.

[Katman]

Which is patently untrue.

Actually you're right.

When it's not "conspiracy theory" you're screaming, it's "ANTI-SEMITISM!!!"

[bogan]

Actually you're right.

When it's not "conspiracy theory" you're screaming, it's "ANTI-SEMITISM!!!"

Also patently untrue, the pentagon fake news story was not classified as such either. While anti-semtisim is still all too prevalent, I haven't classified anything that way for months now; when that sort of bigotry gets fuck all traction, for total exposure it's better not to bother trying to correct the bigots.

[Katman]

Also patently untrue, the pentagon fake news story was not classified as such either. While anti-semtisim is still all too prevalent, I haven't classified anything that way for months now; when that sort of bigotry gets fuck all traction, for total exposure it's better not to bother trying to correct the bigots.

And therein lies a perfect example of your pig-headed refusal to expose yourself to 'evidence' that contradicts what you believe.

A while back I posted a 30 second clip of an Israeli MP explaining how they use the term 'anti-Semitic' as a "trick" (her word) - as a means of shutting down discussion.

You steadfastly refused to view it.

[bogan]

And therein lies a perfect example of your pig-headed refusal to expose yourself to 'evidence' that contradicts what you believe.

A while back I posted a 30 second clip of an Israeli MP explaining how they use the term 'anti-Semitic' as a "trick" (her word) - as a means of shutting down discussion.

You steadfastly refused to view it.

So, what tangent are you off on now? You and other posters have already explained that theory, why should I have viewed the video? What exactly do you think the video shows in the way of evidence to change my beliefs?

[Ocean1]

Oh, and buying places at Harvard is fairly routine, it's not a charitable institution. What's more, given that typical course costs run to about US$50.000 pa it sounds positively cheap. I read an interesting article about US tertiary ed institution charges and they way they manage bursaries. I'll see if I can dig it out.

............ https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/college-tuitions-rise-scholarships-fail-keep-pace-jeff-selingo?trk=eml-b2_content_ecosystem_digest-hero-22-null&midToken=AQGE0vH6wqPpFQ&fromEmail=fromEmail&ut=1ZDlUNCRPbODw1

[Ocean1]

Which is patently untrue. Many things I have not agreed with have not been named conspiracy theories (even your pentagon fake news from yesterday wasn't); but things like 911, chemtrails, etc are all based on the premise that TPTB are up to something, that there is a conspiracy, so it is only fitting and correct they are labeled as conspiracy theories.

Generally speaking the use of "TPTB" is a strong indicator for a persecution complex. And therefore a dead giveaway that the sort of classic circular logic endemic to conspiracy theorists isn't far behind.

[husaberg]

Just like my fixation of labelling anything I don't understand as a 'Conspiracy'.

fixed it for you.

[yokel]

Which is patently untrue. Many things I have not agreed with have not been named conspiracy theories (even your pentagon fake news from yesterday wasn't); but things like 911, chemtrails, etc are all based on the premise that TPTB are up to something, that there is a conspiracy, so it is only fitting and correct they are labeled as conspiracy theories.

The 19 evildoers with box cutters is the most recent instalment of fake news / conspiracy theories.
It's why we're in this mess of lies.

You can add to that list of fake news; campus rapes, hands up don't shoot, Russian hackers,
Trumps sexual assaults and so on.
And then there's the stuff that doesn't get reported.
Eg "bird doging" , Hillary's comments in the debates about accepting the result of the election.

https://img.ifcdn.com/images/4a893f3eab960b5bc5ce6ea32c328bf3821f521edc1ab45eee e0639fb8e2250f_1.jpg

[yokel]

https://twitter.com/dmduncan2010/status/808502641928105984

[pritch]

Interesting article about Trump's choice for Education Secretary. She was already interesting because she has been a vocal advocate for public assistance for private education. She is catholic so there's nothing startling there, but it makes her an odd choice to put in charge of education. She obviously doesn't worry too much about fine legal detail, like election funding laws, or millions of dollars in fines for breaching those laws.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/12/14/democratic-senators-press-trumps-education-pick-betsy-devos-to-pay-years-old-5-2-million-fine/?utm_term=.070531cd4c1f

[pritch]

This is almost breathtaking in the incompetence demonstrated, not once but twice. The first guy who fucked up says he had no way of verifying that the call was actually from the FBI. I would hope that anybody involved in a job that required even a modicum of discretion would know how to do that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/russia-hack-election-dnc.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

[oldrider]

The Media’s Hypocrisy of “Russia Did It” Stories Is Hard to Stomach: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-medias-hypocrisy-of-russia-did-it-stories-is-hard-to-stomach/5562773 . :kick: Russia did it!

[pritch]

The Media’s Hypocrisy of “Russia Did It” Stories Is Hard to Stomach: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-medias-hypocrisy-of-russia-did-it-stories-is-hard-to-stomach/5562773 . :kick: Russia did it!


On TV last night it was mentioned that among the reasons given for suspecting the Russians was that the software was used contained Russian characters and there was no activity on Russian holidays.

It's not like it's the first time they've acted on minimal info. The Sony hack was attributed by the FBI to North Korea, and the Obama administration accepted that as fact. At the time some in the US IT community thought it was more likely an inside job. Sony had just laid off a large number of employees, disproportionately female, and there were several among them who would have been able to access the Sony systems. They had reaason to be agrieved and the ability to do something about it.

[yokel]

On TV last night it was mentioned that among the reasons given for suspecting the Russians was that the software was used contained Russian characters and there was no activity on Russian holidays.

It's not like it's the first time they've acted on minimal info. The Sony hack was attributed by the FBI to North Korea, and the Obama administration accepted that as fact. At the time some in the US IT community thought it was more likely an inside job. Sony had just laid off a large number of employees, disproportionately female, and there were several among them who would have been able to access the Sony systems. They had reaason to be agrieved and the ability to do something about it.

The Russians hacked the election? Ha that's a good one.
Ok Hillary you lost because of that alt-right conspiracy theory.


http://www.infostormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/clinton-tinfoil-hat.png

[Brian d marge]

The Russians hacked the election? Ha that's a good one.
Ok Hillary you lost because of that alt-right conspiracy theory.


http://www.infostormer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/clinton-tinfoil-hat.png
She ain't lost yet
She still. Could whack all of the electors and claim the Russians eat children, and with a recount in California, and hanging Chad's in Florida
She's in like flynn

sent for a divine source

[jasonu]

On TV last night it was mentioned that among the reasons given for suspecting the Russians was that the software was used contained Russian characters and there was no activity on Russian holidays.
.

and everyone knows Russian computer hackers never work on Lennin Day, it's against union rules.
TBH i just assumed there were no Russian holidays.

[pritch]

It shouldn't come as a surprise but Trump is reportedly not planning on doing much work as president. When he was talking to Kasich about his being VP, Kasich was told that he'd be doing most of the work.

I guess it's the VPE that's attending most of the security briefings because Trump isn't. He's too busy hosting Kanye West at Trump Tower or misspelling Twitter messages. "Ive got lot's of words, I've got the best words". :lol:

Some people seem hopeful that the Electors will give Trump the arse card and Hillary will get the job. That's not even a remote possibility. What they could do would be replace Trump with another Republican, but they haven't given any indication that they have the guts, or the smarts, to do that.

[oldrider]

Trump Wins Electoral College Vote, Propaganda Campaign Portraying Him as an Instrument of Moscow has Failed:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/trump-wins-electoral-college-vote-propaganda-campaign-portraying-him-as-an-instrument-of-moscow-has-failed/5563608

Have the American people really woken up or is this all just another contrived version of the same old thing dressed up as change? :corn: Time will reveal all! :wait:

[oldrider]

Three Reasons Why Trump will be Good for Israel and Bad for the Palestinians: http://www.globalresearch.ca/three-reasons-why-trump-will-be-good-for-israel-and-bad-for-the-palestinians/5560226?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles :corn: interesting.

Oops - Trouble at UN mill and New Zealand is involved: http://www.globalresearch.ca/drama-at-the-un-security-council-israels-illegal-settlements/5564833?utm_campaign=magnet&utm_source=article_page&utm_medium=related_articles

[pritch]

This could be laughable if it wasn't actually scary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/12/28/americans-especially-but-not-exclusively-trump-voters-believe-crazy-wrong-things/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw8&wpmm=1

[jasonu]

This could be laughable if it wasn't actually scary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/12/28/americans-especially-but-not-exclusively-trump-voters-believe-crazy-wrong-things/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw8&wpmm=1

Was the survey done by the same groups that got the USA election TOTALLY WRONG?

[husaberg]

done by the same groups that got the USA election TOTALLY WRONG?

You mean the American voter?

[jasonu]

You mean the American voter?

Don't be a dick all day...



Happy new year mate.

[husaberg]

Don't be a dick all day...



Happy new year mate.

Same to you (Both)
327435

[jasonu]

Same to you (Both)
327435

Must spread.....

[oldrider]

Was the survey done by the same groups that got the USA election TOTALLY WRONG?


You mean the American voter?


Don't be a dick all day

Did Donald Trump know exactly what he was saying when he claimed the election was rigged? :shifty:

Was it actually rigged in "his" favour? - and everybody simply assumed he meant Clinton? :scratch:

A lot of his comments were curried in that vein - that he could do no wrong he would still get elected no matter what he said or did? - if so he was right all along! :blip:

Ah - Deception - what a cunning way to make war - and who benefits? - listen again to his AIPAC speech!

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fQgDgMGuDI0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Which country does he place first :first: and really intend to make great again? - You be the judge! :corn: Still "time" will reveal all! :wait:

[TheDemonLord]

I have to admit, The more I listen to Trump, the more I think he is much more machiavellian than first thought - He seems to present this buffonish front, plain speaking and almost ignorant, then at key moments he shows a more nuanced understanding by his actions with very deliberate moves, carefully calculated for a specific outcome.

Coupled this with the fact that he has survived and thrived in Big Business (where at that level, everyone is trying to screw everyone else any way they can) - it seems to me that he is a lot smarter than he lets on.

Whether this is true or not, will depend on his presidency.

[yokel]

This could be laughable if it wasn't actually scary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/12/28/americans-especially-but-not-exclusively-trump-voters-believe-crazy-wrong-things/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw8&wpmm=1

You're scared of the MSM lying about fake news?

"Remember Pizzagate? That’s the bizarre theory that Hillary Clinton was helping run a child sex slave ring out of a D.C. pizza joint, as allegedly proven by code words in hacked Democratic emails."

This is not really what pizzagate is about, and is a blatant attempt to misinform.



<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Gx3ZMBO9vVQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Trump was right all along, well at least the birth cert is indeed a fake.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lXJkc1Wionk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[bogan]

This could be laughable if it wasn't actually scary.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/rampage/wp/2016/12/28/americans-especially-but-not-exclusively-trump-voters-believe-crazy-wrong-things/?wpisrc=nl_most-draw8&wpmm=1

Yup, all of that simply shows the irrationality of the american voting public, and their polarised media. Shit like Obama's birth certificate, it's been shown, and verified that he was born a US citizen, in hawaii. It's not really up for discussion, yet there is a massive number of fuckwits who chose to beleive he was born in kenya, based on it simply being what they want to beleive; completely irrational, shouldn't be allowed the right to vote.

[Katman]

Shit like Obama's birth certificate, it's been shown, and verified that he was born a US citizen, in hawaii. It's not really up for discussion, yet there is a massive number of fuckwits who chose to beleive he was born in kenya, based on it simply being what they want to beleive; completely irrational, shouldn't be allowed the right to vote.

I don't know one way or the other.

But the fact that you seem so sure of yourself when you actually wouldn't have a fucking clue is hilarious.

:killingme

[WristTwister]

I don't know one way or the other.

But the fact that you seem so sure of yourself when you actually wouldn't have a fucking clue is hilarious.

:killingme

They've shown his birth certificate on TV, I don't know of any other birth certificate that has received more media coverage.

[Katman]

They've shown his birth certificate on TV,

Wow, sounds like 'case closed' then.

Are you really suggesting that the fact that it was shown on TV proves there is no possibility that it was forged?

:facepalm:

[pritch]

They've shown his birth certificate on TV, I don't know of any other birth certificate that has received more media coverage.

Yeah, not just on TV, it received 'yuge' coverage. Unlike Trump's tax returns f'rinstance.

Still, the halfwit conspiracy theorists will stick to their half baked beliefs. We can't point the finger at the Yanks though, we've got the buggers here on KB.

[pritch]

You're scared of the MSM lying about fake news?



No that's not what I said, or what the article said. You pulled that out of your arse or wherever you got those clips from.
Against my better judgement I watched the first clip. The guy who made that has severely limited comprehension skills, the clip doesn't come close to making sense.

Happy New Year :drinkup:

[husaberg]

Wow, sounds like 'case closed' then.

Are you really suggesting that the fact that it was shown on TV proves there is no possibility that it was forged?

:facepalm:

How many occasions has it been stated or alluded to, that you are a P dealer.
Not once have you ever proved it to be untrue, to anywhere near the Katman level of case closed, there for you must be a P dealer then, if we apply your epic Katman logic

[Brian d marge]

Doing this off top of head, so excuse the details,

Trump , as has been said; made and lost his money in NY. To buy and sell ya need the nod from, the Jewish quarter and of cause the mob

Studia 54,( the famous disco studio, mafia run and full of drugs ) Roy Cohn ( the Mafias lawyer ) and Israel, (dig into trumps family) , now add to that mix the people he has appointed to his cabinet, ( I haven't had the time to dig into their history so am 50/50 on the appointments.)

Mathematically is impossible to rescue the US economy, I Think they are trying the strong dollar policy through Bonds etc, and weakening other currencies, MAYBE to pay for a navy upgrade as trump promised. ( the west traditionally a sea-based power where china and Russia a land-based power ) Which means Afghanistan will continue as will the attacks on Iran.

One thing IS for sure , these people are BAT SHYT crazy and have no feeling other than CONTEMPT for us here at the bottom.

If ONLY 5% would rise up and say enough is enough, we obeying ur stupidity anymore..


Ps. Try not obeying anymore and see how far u get. NZ isn't so bad, but Japan is like a police state, you get stopped and searched, bag check AND taken to the station, FOR ANY REASON ( usually the reasons given are Knife, credit card stolen or bicycle stolen).

And the war on cash here, in japan! where cash is king! , MAJOR swing towards electronic money.

why DO we need registration for a vehicle? oh it pays for the,,,,,,, well ya don't need my name and address for that, licence plate 12345 has paid the required amount ( or it comes out in general Tax ).

HANG the fkin lot of them ....now where is a decent tennis court, we need a meeting!

[Grumph]

They've shown his birth certificate on TV, I don't know of any other birth certificate that has received more media coverage.

Correct - but I think it was Churchill who said "the winners write the history..."

Trump has to denigrate and cry down Obama's work of two terms in order to make himself "presidential"

You can expect more of this style as Trump unwinds agreements and precedents set by previous administrations. Starting by reviving the "citizen" question which surely was looked at harder than any previous candidate in history.
Amusingly I hear today that Trump has no legal right to that surname...

We saw it here when Key got in - Prior to him I can not remember ever seeing an incoming government badmouth the previous one in NZ. It was all very gentlemanly up to that time.

[jasonu]

We saw it here when Key got in - Prior to him I can not remember ever seeing an incoming government badmouth the previous one in NZ. It was all very gentlemanly up to that time.

Pretty sure Squeaky Bill Rowling received plenty of public slaggings from Piggy Muldoon.

[pritch]

Pretty sure Squeaky Bill Rowling received plenty of public slaggings from Piggy Muldoon.

Indeed. Muldoon though could hardly be described as gentlemanly. He really was a pig. I was a news junkie prior to his arrival but had to give it away because I was going to throw something at the TV set. Once he left - caught drunk in charge of a country - I could watch the news again.

[Grumph]

Pretty sure Squeaky Bill Rowling received plenty of public slaggings from Piggy Muldoon.

Personal attacks yes, that was Muldoon's style. But you never saw his ministers on TV saying that due to my predecessors's incompetence this department is run down to hell - as we have seen current ministers doing.
I suspect it was Joyce's idea as he seems to be the only one still pushing that line.

[Brian d marge]

Drunk in charge of a country
.. officer....Can I still keep me licence?

sent for a divine source

[pritch]

Drunk in charge of a country
.. officer....Can I still keep me licence?



No. That didn't work. He called a snap election while pissed and then lost it. Way to go Piggy.

[Brian d marge]

No. That didn't work. He called a snap election while pissed and then lost it. Way to go Piggy.
A least he didnt have fisher price , my little red button

sent for a divine source

[husaberg]

No. That didn't work. He called a snap election while pissed and then lost it. Way to go Piggy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLDve40cxlk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erScQkPr5kQ


Pretty sure Squeaky Bill Rowling received plenty of public slaggings from Piggy Muldoon.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbevFguT6NE

[Katman]

If you're wanting to talk foreign influence in other countries governmental process........

http://wearechange.org/top-10-times-the-us-interfered-with-foreign-governments/

[PrincessBandit]

How many occasions has it been stated on alluded to that you are a P dealer.
Not once have you ever proved it to be untrue, to anywhere near the Katman level of case closed, there for you must be a P dealer then, if we apply your epic Katman logic

P as in pissing off or pissing on - that's more his style. He must have really gotten under your skin if you have to keep resorting to this.

[husaberg]

P as in pissing off or pissing on - that's more his style. He must have really gotten under your skin if you have to keep resorting to this.

Resorting to what? Meh, I was clearly only applying your brothers very own troll logic there.
As for your brother getting under someones skin, So do you believe he is some sort of parasites as well?

[oldrider]

The real reason behind all this American presidential electoral charade 9/11 and the world war on terror international demonisation of Syria Iran Russia etc etc! :corn:

Well here it is again! (in case you missed it the last time round) You are actually living in the real version of the world portrayed in this video think about that! :shifty:

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/SKnF1HEUwuo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[yokel]

No that's not what I said, or what the article said. You pulled that out of your arse or wherever you got those clips from.
Against my better judgement I watched the first clip. The guy who made that has severely limited comprehension skills, the clip doesn't come close to making sense.

Happy New Year :drinkup:

WTF? Well that says a lot about your "better judgment"

[Katman]

http://www.ronpaullibertyreport.com/archives/trump-is-exactly-where-the-elites-want-him

[bogan]

I don't know one way or the other.

But the fact that you seem so sure of yourself when you actually wouldn't have a fucking clue is hilarious.

:killingme

There's this little thing called burden of proof.

[husaberg]

That relies on someone being reasonable rather than suffering from conspiracy paranoia.
This means that the proposition being presented by the prosecution must be proven to the extent that there could be no "reasonable doubt" in the mind of a "reasonable person" that the defendant is guilty. There can still be a doubt, but only to the extent that it would not affect a reasonable person's belief regarding whether or not the defendant is guilty.

[Katman]

There's this little thing called burden of proof.

Have you familiarised yourself with the claims that the people who suggest the birth certificate has been forged are making?

If not, don't talk to me about burden of proof.

[pritch]

With Trump getting closer to the button by the day I expect we should look on the bright side, find the humour where we can. I see today that he claims he knows a lot about hacking. Yeah right!

The self-proclaimed hacking expert says that no computer is safe and that it's better to write the message on paper and send it by courier. :facepalm:
Apparently he doesn't know that it was an intercepted courier that lead the SEALS to Bin Laden.

[bogan]

Have you familiarised yourself with the claims that the people who suggest the birth certificate has been forged are making?

If not, don't talk to me about burden of proof.

Yes, and there is no proof to them; may as well hound Trump to prove the same thing. This is probably the bit where you eschew the whole burden of proof notion, and instead try to burden me with proving another one of your absurd conspiracy theories.

[Katman]

Yes, and there is no proof to them; may as well hound Trump to prove the same thing. This is probably the bit where you eschew the whole burden of proof notion, and instead try to burden me with proving another one of your absurd conspiracy theories.

I'm not trying to burden you with anything.

I'm just pointing out the absurdity of you proclaiming yourself so certain about something you know jack-shit about.

[bogan]

I'm not trying to burden you with anything.

I'm just pointing out the absurdity of you proclaiming yourself so certain about something you know jack-shit about.

"So certain"? Don't recall taking that viewpoint, what I said was it is completely irrational to believe he was born in kenya or wherever.

[Katman]

Shit like Obama's birth certificate, it's been shown, and verified that he was born a US citizen, in hawaii. It's not really up for discussion, yet there is a massive number of fuckwits who chose to beleive he was born in kenya, based on it simply being what they want to beleive; completely irrational, shouldn't be allowed the right to vote.

You sound fairly certain.

[bogan]

You sound fairly certain.

Ah, another case of KM rejecting reality and reading into shit only what he wants to hear. No wonder you do not recognise the irrationality of the birth certificate 'debate', you simply lack the ability to be rational yourself.

[Katman]

Ah, another case of KM rejecting reality and reading into shit only what he wants to hear.

Are you suggesting you're actually not so certain afterall?

[bogan]

Are you suggesting you're actually not so certain afterall?

It's good that you're making an effort, but a rational question would be to put that in context. Ie, "Are you suggesting you are more certain that Obama is a US citizen that the candidates we have had this year?" To which the answer is of course, yes. It would also behoove you to ditch the 'are you suggesting' mock incredulity, and the use of the word certain, as both are terms to bias responses to what you wish to hear, instead of what is.

[Katman]

It's good that you're making an effort, but a rational question would be to put that in context. Ie, "Are you suggesting you are more certain that Obama is a US citizen that the candidates we have had this year?" To which the answer is of course, yes. It would also behoove you to ditch the 'are you suggesting' mock incredulity, and the use of the word certain, as both are terms to bias responses to what you wish to hear, instead of what is.

Dude, I'm just enjoying watching you talk yourself into an ever-decreasing circle.

[bogan]

Dude, I'm just enjoying watching you talk yourself into an ever-decreasing circle.

Every decreasing circle of what, exactly? Or will the attempt to rationalise it burst your delusion...

[Katman]

Every decreasing circle of what, exactly? Or will the attempt to rationalise it burst your delusion...

You're starting to sound decidedly uncertain.

[bogan]

You're starting to sound decidedly uncertain.

Of a thing I never said I was certain of? just who's going in decreasing circles :killingme

[Katman]

Of a thing I never said I was certain of?

I'll just leave this here....


Shit like Obama's birth certificate, it's been shown, and verified that he was born a US citizen, in hawaii. It's not really up for discussion

[Katman]

<img src="http://www.jelfgroup.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/spiral-303135_640.png"/>

[bogan]

I'll just leave this here....

And?.... do you have something to suggest it should be up for discussion?

There is one thing circular here, and it's that we keep coming back this notion of burden of proof; and just how foreign the concept is to you.

[Katman]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8484/8208286758_961119d9cf_b.jpg

[oldrider]

The real reason behind all this American presidential electoral charade 9/11 and the world war on terror international demonisation of Syria Iran Russia etc etc! :corn:

Well here it is again! (in case you missed it the last time round) You are actually living in the real version of the world portrayed in this video think about that! :shifty:

Interesting information further to above post!

America Has Been at War 93% of the Time – 222 out of 239 Years – Since 1776: http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-has-been-at-war-93-of-the-time-222-out-of-239-years-since-1776/5565946

Who really are the real terrorist of the world? - America? - or her controlling bankers? :confused: Who do you think it was that benefited most out of 9/11? :scratch:

[Brian d marge]

Tapatalk delivers the posts in batches, this morning ,phone on vibrate , and up the missus arse, she has been really happy all day , thanks u 2

sent for a divine source

[Brian d marge]

Interesting information further to above post!

America Has Been at War 93% of the Time – 222 out of 239 Years – Since 1776: http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-has-been-at-war-93-of-the-time-222-out-of-239-years-since-1776/5565946

Who really are the real terrorist of the world? - America? - or her controlling bankers? :confused: Who do you think it was that benefited most out of 9/11? :scratch:

I know which path ur on , keep digging , the banker ( singular) to the black pope aint the problem ( he is a slimy lizard hahaha, ) but he is just plying his stock in trade , as shylock has done for thousands of years .

Trump, Obama , donkey reincarnate are just minions/

no it gets mighty interesting the further back in time ya go and the further up ya go ......mighty interesting

[PrincessBandit]

I see what all the sides present, and quite frankly roll my eyes and wonder how anyone anywhere can get to the truth in politics at all. Just like stats can be twisted to suit anyone's agenda, "reality" can be twisted, distorted, he'll, even alternative realities created, and then all delivered in a way that's palatable and believable to the masses.

It's no wonder that people struggle to make informed decisions when so many clamouring propaganda-spouters / conspiracy theorists/ doomsayers/ nutjobs/ forked-tongue pollies with self benefitting agendas etc are all trumpeting their stories via all forms of media!

That mythical concept of "the truth" ( how quaint) will never be the same thing to everyone.

[oldrider]

I see what all the sides present, and quite frankly roll my eyes and wonder how anyone anywhere can get to the truth in politics at all. Just like stats can be twisted to suit anyone's agenda, "reality" can be twisted, distorted, he'll, even alternative realities created, and then all delivered in a way that's palatable and believable to the masses.

It's no wonder that people struggle to make informed decisions when so many clamouring propaganda-spouters / conspiracy theorists/ doomsayers/ nutjobs/ forked-tongue pollies with self benefitting agendas etc are all trumpeting their stories via all forms of media!

That mythical concept of "the truth" ( how quaint) will never be the same thing to everyone.

Enjoy the freedom to make up your own mind while it still lasts - it's not intended to be around for much longer! :blip:

[mashman]

I see what all the sides present, and quite frankly roll my eyes and wonder how anyone anywhere can get to the truth in politics at all. Just like stats can be twisted to suit anyone's agenda, "reality" can be twisted, distorted, he'll, even alternative realities created, and then all delivered in a way that's palatable and believable to the masses.

It's no wonder that people struggle to make informed decisions when so many clamouring propaganda-spouters / conspiracy theorists/ doomsayers/ nutjobs/ forked-tongue pollies with self benefitting agendas etc are all trumpeting their stories via all forms of media!

That mythical concept of "the truth" ( how quaint) will never be the same thing to everyone.

Tis one of them thar outcomes of employing "experts" that supposedly have experience to do the job, because they do so within learned limits. They are unable to look beyond those limits, because that is outwith their job remit and they are bound by the perception of law that they have been indoctrinated with. As such, we end up with history repeating itself as the environment for change simply doesn't exist given the afore mentioned limits that the "experts" don't look past. Tis somewhat ironic that people vote for these so-called "experts" on the sole premise that they have experience in the field that they have chosen and therefore believe that these people will affect the change that is sorely required. Still, they do put on a great show.

[PrincessBandit]

Enjoy the freedom to make up your own mind while it still lasts - it's not intended to be around for much longer! :blip:


Tis one of them thar outcomes of employing "experts" that supposedly have experience to do the job, because they do so within learned limits. They are unable to look beyond those limits, because that is outwith their job remit and they are bound by the perception of law that they have been indoctrinated with. As such, we end up with history repeating itself as the environment for change simply doesn't exist given the afore mentioned limits that the "experts" don't look past. Tis somewhat ironic that people vote for these so-called "experts" on the sole premise that they have experience in the field that they have chosen and therefore believe that these people will affect the change that is sorely required. Still, they do put on a great show.

I'm sure that it's all designed to over burden the average citizen with such a bamboozling array of information they are simply overwhelmed to the point of surrender. Baaaaaa baaaaaaaa baaaaaaa. Tptb are waiting to hear us en masse in lovely sheepy harmony. That part of their mission will then be complete. (Because we all know, deep down in our hearts, that someone else always knows what's best for us :msn-wink: )

[PrincessBandit]

327598


Did someone say "conspiracy"? Oh, sorry, wrong "president".






(Bush, in case that left skidmarks).

[oldrider]

The Globalization of War, America’s “Long War” against Humanity by Michel Chossudovsky: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-globalization-of-war-americas-long-war-against-humanity-michel-chossudovsky/5427720 :corn:

<iframe width="690" height="400" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/im_HEX5ba6M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[yokel]

The failing mainstream media, still has a long way to fall.
It is quite amusing watching it crash and burn.


https://youtu.be/G6RHIhn_T6w

[Voltaire]

The failing mainstream media, still has a long way to fall.
It is quite amusing watching it crash and burn.


https://youtu.be/G6RHIhn_T6w

Probably take fake President with it :msn-wink:

[R650R]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4110700/PIERS-MORGAN-hookers-story-cheap-lazy-journalists-ran-fake-Trump-sleaze-urinate-presidency.html

[Voltaire]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4110700/PIERS-MORGAN-hookers-story-cheap-lazy-journalists-ran-fake-Trump-sleaze-urinate-presidency.html

Piers Morgan, now we're talking serious journalism.:lol:

[oldrider]

Headline:

Trump is the first world political leader to have enough courage, and perfect sense, to confront the most terrible terrorism in the world, the chemical attack of infants with toxic vaccines. :corn: wonder how much coverage this will get? - :wait:

[pete376403]

Anti-vaxxers should go for it - there are too many people in the world anyway. A good pandemic or two will help get the population down to a more practical level.

[yokel]

So it begins.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0EY6RdADw_I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

So it begins.


freedom of speech
noun
noun: freedom of speech; plural noun: freedoms of speech

the power or right to express one's opinions without censorship, restraint, or legal penalty.

[Brian d marge]

freedom of speech
noun
noun: freedom of speech; plural noun: freedoms of speech

the power or right to express one's opinions without censorship, restraint, or legal penalty.

get ya shot though wont it

what are we now , 65 ? arkancides

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hphgHi6FD8k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

uncle Huey got a headache and all

Free my arse

[R650R]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4122304/Chris-Cox-Bikers-Trump-says-5-000-members-attend-inauguration.html

[yokel]

freedom of speech
noun
noun: freedom of speech; plural noun: freedoms of speech

the power or right to express one's opinions without censorship, restraint, or legal penalty.

Yeah there's plenty of YouTube vids that get taken down, but that one was taken down buy the uploader https://youtu.be/UYKJmny85rY

"Bikers for Trump" is not "bikers 4 Trump"

[yokel]

If Clinton 2.0 had won, would Jew Key still be our PM?

http://redstatewatcher.com/article.asp?id=56748

[oldrider]

If Clinton 2.0 had won, would Jew Key still be our PM?

http://redstatewatcher.com/article.asp?id=56748

Can't imagine how something like this just goes on by without hardly a mention let alone reaction! - Has NZ reached total political zombie status already? :facepalm: