The firearm thread

[jono035]

and fuck me, 3000 posts!

what a thread!

-Indy

Yep, maybe KB needs a firearms forum! :D

The H&K USC is a disappointment, that was one of the guns on my wish-list, they're expensive little buggers but they look amazing and a full-barrel suppressor on one would make them a pretty fun possuming gun... Then again once I have the cash for that I'd be in my own house anyway so would be able to get a bigger safe and an E-cat anyway...

Anyone ever seen any data on what a pistol grip actually does in terms of accuracy when shooting from the hip? I went and read the wikipedia article on David Gray and the Aramoana shooting and it was prominently noted that the police officer shot from the hip as Gray exited walked out of the house...

Surely any benefit to a free-standing pistol grip is already nullified by the fact that the rifle must be semi auto and have a magazine size limit?

[Swoop]

Have you heard of the term "Knee Jerk"?

Trying to make up for the fact they fucked up by not checking him after his FAL expired/was revoked.
Yup. They obviously knew where he lived, since Molenaar was being served a search warrant...

Another police cock-up where the law-abiding public get shafted from the after effects. Just like Dunblane... and Aramoana.

[Mr Merde]

....Another police cock-up where the law-abiding public get shafted from the after effects. Just like Dunblane.

Just like every piece of firearms legislation.

We the law abiding always gert the dirty end of the stick as we are by our very nature an easy target for those in power.

I am reading the report after the last firearms review (link further back) and NZ has reacted to all the UK changes in law. It has also reacted to events such as Dunblane. In what way does the tragedy of Dunblane or even Hungerford impact upon the NZ way of life that those in power feel we must have more restrictions placed upon ourselves to protect society.

None that I can see but it gives the anti's something else they can use as propaganda.

The ultimate aim of these groups and persons is not the safety of the population (as they profess it to be) but the control and domination of the population.

A state where you do as you are told , when you are told and how you are told by those who have an over inflated opinion of their own self importance.

We as sheep (myself included) just sit back and accept every control they thrust upon us.

We deserve to loose our sport.

Chris

[Swoop]

We deserve to loose our sport.
Hopefully not.
It does make me wonder why some of our governing bodies have chosen to cease funding COLFO at this time. The reasoning is that they have a rather decent nest-egg to fund a decent fight with. I chose to donate as an "additional" on our club membership renewal.
One never knows what the anti-gun idiots will come up with and when. Good on ya COLFO!

[jono035]

Hopefully not.
It does make me wonder why some of our governing bodies have chosen to cease funding COLFO at this time. The reasoning is that they have a rather decent nest-egg to fund a decent fight with. I chose to donate as an "additional" on our club membership renewal.
One never knows what the anti-gun idiots will come up with and when. Good on ya COLFO!

I can't actually remember whether I chose to join COLFO when I last renewed my range membership... Didn't know what it was then, but have since been doing a little reading and will be joining if I haven't already...

[sAsLEX]

Surely any benefit to a free-standing pistol grip is already nullified by the fact that the rifle must be semi auto and have a magazine size limit?

I had a play with my 700 and 38-40.

The 700 has a pronounced pistol grip that allows a full hand pistol grip to be used and the rifle to be used as a assualt rifle.

The 38-40 has a very basic stock and can still be gripped like a pistol and fired easily with one hand.

What does "enabling the firearm to be used as an assault weapon " actually mean?

ps you wouldn't be able to hit a barn door with the 700 as it is rather heavy, the 38-40 would be easy as to fire off handed.

[jono035]

I had a play with my 700 and 38-40.

The 700 has a pronounced pistol grip that allows a full hand pistol grip to be used and the rifle to be used as a assualt rifle.

The 38-40 has a very basic stock and can still be gripped like a pistol and fired easily with one hand.

What does "enabling the firearm to be used as an assault weapon " actually mean?

ps you wouldn't be able to hit a barn door with the 700 as it is rather heavy, the 38-40 would be easy as to fire off handed.

Personally I think encouraging rambo-wannabes to use pistol-grip weapons and fire one-handed from the hip would probably be a positive effect on gun-safety :wacko:

[wbks]

Any one have any hunting magazines they don't read and wouldn't mind giving away?

[sAsLEX]

Personally I think encouraging rambo-wannabes to use pistol-grip weapons and fire one-handed from the hip would probably be a positive effect on gun-safety :wacko:

That is not the point of my post but meh, what it was trying to show was that having a pistol grip like the M16 isn't required to shoot from the hip or what ever "used as an assault weapon " means.

As this is what Superintendent A W McLeod is against.

[wbks]

Used as an assault weapon? So I take it he thinks "firing from the hip" is what soldiers do when using assault weapons like the Steyr? :(

[scumdog]

Yup. They obviously knew where he lived, since Molenaar was being served a search warrant...

Another police cock-up where the law-abiding public get shafted from the after effects. Just like Dunblane... and Aramoana.

Wind the clock back buddy - Molenaaars licence had expired yonks ago, a guy like him is not likely to hand in his f'arms and say "yeah, don't need 'em since my licence expired" is he? And he has no burden of proof to show what he DID do with any guns he had - oh wait, you would be happy if that was brought in?

I guess y'all would be happy with cops searching your house for guns ten minutes after your firearms licence expired eh?


Gee, I wonder who the first person that killed somebody while 'speeding' was, you know the one that caused the 'law-abiding public' to get shafted...and who the cops were that made the cock-up by not stopping them first?

But yeah, the Dunblame was a total cock-up by police and to a lesser extent Aramoana (Though peaceniks would screamed "Breach of civil rights" had the cops randomly raided Grays house because he was acting 'funny' I bet)

[jono035]

That is not the point of my post but meh, what it was trying to show was that having a pistol grip like the M16 isn't required to shoot from the hip or what ever "used as an assault weapon " means.

As this is what Superintendent A W McLeod is against.

Yeah, I followed you fine, was just making a joke... Guess I missed the mark a little :D

wbks - Yeah, I'm not really sure wtf the point is either, maybe they're worried about being confronted by someone with a gun at their hip and getting shot after assuming he wasn't ready to shoot? I'd say let us have our free-standing pistol grips and in that situation, shoot first...

[sAsLEX]

I guess y'all would be happy with cops searching your house for guns ten minutes after your firearms licence expired eh?


When did he loose his license?



Molenaar was a registered gun owner and collector, but failed to renew his licence in 2002.

oh ten minutes.....

[jono035]

Wind the clock back buddy - Molenaaars licence had expired yonks ago, a guy like him is not likely to hand in his f'arms and say "yeah, don't need 'em since my licence expired" is he? And he has no burden of proof to show what he DID do with any guns he had - oh wait, you would be happy if that was brought in?

I guess y'all would be happy with cops searching your house for guns ten minutes after your firearms licence expired eh?


Gee, I wonder who the first person that killed somebody while 'speeding' was, you know the one that caused the 'law-abiding public' to get shafted...and who the cops were that made the cock-up by not stopping them first?

But yeah, the Dunblame was a total cock-up by police and to a lesser extent Aramoana (Though peaceniks would screamed "Breach of civil rights" had the cops randomly raided Grays house because he was acting 'funny' I bet)

Yeah, very true scumdog... I think a lot of people are feeling some frustration over the random, out of the blue changes to firearms classification.

My problem is less with the points you mentioned are more along the side of what these changes are actually going to accomplish? I don't believe in penalising tens of thousands of gun owners for the sake of a cosmetic change that will not increase NZ gun safety...

[jono035]

When did he loose his license?



Molenaar was a registered gun owner and collector, but failed to renew his licence in 2002.

oh ten minutes.....

Searching his house probably wouldn't have done much anyway unless they had shown up unannounced with a warrant (possibly a good idea) but I'm sure people would have kicked up a pretty big stink about it. Who knows, maybe this situation would have happened on the day the police showed up to search his place rather than this year?

I don't think blaming anyone for this is constructive, although neither are knee-jerk cosmetic changes to firearms licensing that will have no effect on gun crime.

[Swoop]

...a total cock-up by police and to a lesser extent Aramoana (Though peaceniks would screamed "Breach of civil rights" had the cops randomly raided Grays house because he was acting 'funny' I bet)
Gray presented a firearm at the local shop prior to his rampage. Failing to act on this is similar to the UK police failing to act on the Dunblane incident, since there was ample evidence of mental instability in that dickhead prior to his actions.

Molenaar. A person who fails to renew or hand in their licence would surely appear as a "person of interest" on the plod computer system... or are we still all waiting for INCIS to go online?

[geoffm]

When did he loose his license?



Molenaar was a registered gun owner and collector, but failed to renew his licence in 2002.

oh ten minutes.....

And was a known drug dealer, had undesirable friends and had (IIRC) previous form. I am sure he would have been considered a "fit and proper person" for a firearms license.
Crims don't get gun licenses - it attracts to much of the wrong sort of attention, and they wouldn't get them anyway since 8-% have previous convictions...
Geoff

[ouch]

And was a known drug dealer, had undesirable friends and had (IIRC) previous form. I am sure he would have been considered a "fit and proper person" for a firearms license.
Crims don't get gun licenses - it attracts to much of the wrong sort of attention, and they wouldn't get them anyway since 8-% have previous convictions...
Geoff

This is information from Rimfirecentral from another Kiwi:

Quote:
In the Molenaar case he did apply to renew his licence but one of his referees which I believe was his mother told the firearms officer that she did not believe her son was a fit and proper person to have firearms so his application was rejected. The police then did nothing to check on the wherabouts of his firearms or to secure those firearms after receiving several reports of his irrational behaviour before the seige took place.
We have two problems caused by different Government departments, on one hand we have the police sitting back and doing nothing and on the other hand me have the mental health authorities wanting to push these nutters back out on the streets to live in the community.
End quote.

Addition from Ouch, did he not have a C CAT/E CAT which requires weapons to be individually regoed?

In this case Police knew he was a "nutter" and that he did have a number of firearms, and NO I would say bloody good job if they did kick his door in to get them.

Come On the local Arms Officer MUST have known?

Was there not "red flag" come up on his computer or the attending Officers pre briefing?

Give the Police the manpower and resources to hunt up these what 50,000 outstanding licencing maybe contacting the original referees first?

BTW: Whenever I refer to "Police" in these cases I refer to the "bosses" not Front Line Police. Scummie I hope you and others don't think my criticism is referring to you guys/gals.

[jono035]

Addition from Ouch, did he not have a C CAT/E CAT which requires weapons to be individually regoed?

Did those licenses require registration before the changes were implemented that required him to re-apply?

Interesting info about him applying and being denied... You'd think that would be worth a follow up, certainly...

[scumdog]

End quote.

Addition from Ouch, did he not have a C CAT/E CAT which requires weapons to be individually regoed?

In this case Police knew he was a "nutter" and that he did have a number of firearms, and NO I would say bloody good job if they did kick his door in to get them.

Come On the local Arms Officer MUST have known?



So he had a cat 'C' & 'E' and it lapsed.

Proved he had sold his registrable firearms.
That's all the local and national arms office would have had a record of.

And the cops still came around, kicked the door in and searched his house.

Sheesh, would the media, civil liberty groups et al ever have a field day with that!!!

(And KB would be worse.:crazy:)

Sorry guys, 9 years of Labour and too much 'personal freedom' have given us scenarios like Molenaars.

[ouch]

So he had a cat 'C' & 'E' and it lapsed.

...and it lapsed and he reapplied and was regected as not a fit and propper person to have it.


Proved he had sold his registrable firearms.
That's all the local and national arms office would have had a record of.

Yes they would have had a record of every C and E Cat he brought and every one he sold as you need Police permission to buy each of these weapons.



And the cops still came around, kicked the door in and searched his house.

If indeed he was judged Unfit and they had been told by that person that he still had guns and/or the Police had a record of his C and E that had not been sold...




Sheesh, would the media, civil liberty groups et al ever have a field day with that!!!


...then the media et al would be wrong to try, the warning signs were there and a armed raid by Police would be the safest option for all conserned in this case with those conditions meet. Heck it is so upsetting to hear about a Policeman getting killed I really want Police to be as safe as possible, ffs they are only doing their job. If this is what happened it was needless.



(And KB would be worse.:crazy:)

:eek5: is that possible?



Sorry guys, 9 years of Labour and too much 'personal freedom' have given us scenarios like Molenaars.

To me it seems that real issues are diverted away from public attention, is this E Cat change going to stop this happening again?

Or maybe, just maybe giving the Police the resorces they need to do their job as effectivly as possibe you know, get to the root of the problem (all those whos licences has expired)? Like the speeding issue insted of the lack of driver skills and darn right careless driving?

[ouch]

BTW lots of good ideas for letters in this thread:

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1244753410/240

Gun City is still selling these now E Cats as A Cat on Trademe and their site.
Trademe are not pulling these auctions, although a private seller did remove two SKS Dragunov rifles when the Q & A said about the changes.

Going to the local AO tomorrow to ask about a Dragunov for my 10/22 with printed Trademe adds with the "they are legal" answers from the sellers to see if I can get clarification as to the Arms Act then to the next town on Thursday to ask there and at the local hunting stores.

[ouch]

I guess y'all would be happy with cops searching your house for guns ten minutes after your firearms licence expired eh?


No but I would expect contact from the Police if I had not responded by a month after it had expired telling me to get my arse to the AO and get it sorted NOW.

IF I had been found to be not a fit and proper person and had my FAL revoked/not renewed I would expect them to be there ASAP and search my house for firearms. I thought that was the idea? I honestly thought that is what they did!

[ManDownUnder]

Yes they would have had a record of every C and E Cat he brought and every one he sold as you need Police permission to buy each of these weapons.
(you forgot the last word... here... let me help) "legally"


:eek5: is that possible?
Seriously... yes. A key difference is that the Police do a little information gathering before they speak

[Mr Merde]

Please excuse my scepticism but I have seen alll this rhetoric before.

As a shooter in the UK I live through the aftermath of both the Hungerford and Dunblane events.

We as shooters all said pretty much the same things that you lot here are saying.

Too late we organised but even then it was into small groups that supported our particular branch of the sport.

We lost.

600,000 pistol owners lost all their firearms.
Massive restrictions upon what we could and could not own after that.

I was one of the people who picketed the Commonwealth Games pistol venue at Bisley. The government just brought all the VIP's in via a side gate and avoided all embarrasment.

There is an agenda in nthis world to disarm the ge3neral population. This is under the umbrella of the United Nations and NZ is a signatory to this.

Hence the way they were going to destroy all the cadet rifles and the bolt action police rifles rather than sell them off to legitimate shooters in NZ.

What is needed is ONE strong association that can weild some real political muscle. SImilar to the power that the NRA in the US has. We have to make our selves heard and feared b y the politicos as they only look to the next vote. Hit them where it hurts, in the election.

Make them realise that alienating 200,000 firearms holders can weild a large vote.

Will this happen.

I doubt it. We are too compliant in this country. Too conditioned to accept what is done to us in the name of what is good for the greater population.

I would love to be proved wrong but I cant see this happening.

We are cattle to be driven.

Chris

[Swoop]

Gun City is still selling these now E Cats as A Cat on Trademe and their site.
Trademe are not pulling these auctions, although a private seller did remove two SKS Dragunov rifles when the Q & A said about the changes.

Going to the local AO tomorrow to ask about a Dragunov for my 10/22 with printed Trademe adds with the "they are legal" answers from the sellers to see if I can get clarification as to the Arms Act then to the next town on Thursday to ask there and at the local hunting stores.
The arms act says "free standing pistol grip" (iirc).
I repeat... "The arms act".

The police cannot change the wording or interpretation until the law has been changed.

They can say what is imported into the country via the import permit process though.

[Mr Merde]

The arms act says "free standing pistol grip" (iirc).
I repeat... "The arms act".

The police cannot change the wording or interpretation until the law has been changed.

They can say what is imported into the country via the import permit process though.

They may not be allowed to do this constitutionally but they put it down to a matter of interpretation.

Try and fight them in a court of law over this and they will outspend you.

eg The law on barrel length for pistols states that you are allowed any length that is used in a main competition.

Try and get a pistol with a 3 " barrel. Not allowed. Police will not allow anything less than 4". (110mm)

My sport is CAS. In such you can use a revolver with a barrel of a minimum of 3 1/2 inches. Try and buy one with any licence other than a C cat.

Chris

[Mr Merde]

Photo of my new assault rifle. 1883-4 Springfield Trapdoor Cadet in 45-70.

That was it was originally designed for so I assume it could in the broadest sense still be classified as.

Ignore the chubby one holding said assault rifle. My mate Mark Jackson who is bringing the rifle to me in Sept from UK.

[Indiana_Jones]

Ignore the chubby one holding said assault rifle. My mate Mark Jackson who is bringing the rifle to me in Sept from UK.

I was gonna say Chris, really letting yourself go havn't we?!

looks nice mate :)

....The rifle that is

-Indy

[sAsLEX]

BTW lots of good ideas for letters in this thread:

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1244753410/240

Gun City is still selling these now E Cats as A Cat on Trademe and their site.
Trademe are not pulling these auctions, although a private seller did remove two SKS Dragunov rifles when the Q & A said about the changes.

Going to the local AO tomorrow to ask about a Dragunov for my 10/22 with printed Trademe adds with the "they are legal" answers from the sellers to see if I can get clarification as to the Arms Act then to the next town on Thursday to ask there and at the local hunting stores.

Thumbhole 10/22s are now E cat, no question over your Dragunov, I wouldn't be letting anyone know I had one....


My local hunting store Wills is rather clear. Anything with something even remotely more than a tiny thumb hole is a MSSA, 10/22 included!


The arms act says "free standing pistol grip" (iirc).
I repeat... "The arms act".

The police cannot change the wording or interpretation until the law has been changed.



But stores won't go against the Superintendent as that will only make their life difficult.

[Indiana_Jones]

All this law change is going to do is cause a lot of guns to "disappear", nothing else

-Indy

[wbks]

Just thought I'd check if anyone has any older 243 upwards caliber rifles they don't use that wouldn't mind selling off that aren't on trademe?

[jono035]

Sorry guys, 9 years of Labour and too much 'personal freedom' have given us scenarios like Molenaars.

uhhh what? don't people around here usually pan Labour for encroaching upon personal freedom?

And personal freedom did this how? I shudder to think of what personal freedoms would have to be viciously encroached upon to prevent this incident which, while incredibly tragic, was still a single isolated incident touched off by someone who, by all accounts, was a complete loon.

[jono035]

All this law change is going to do is cause a lot of guns to "disappear", nothing else

-Indy

Yeah exactly, all of a sudden owning an unregistered E-cat rifle becomes situation normal... great?

[Wolf]

After finally getting to fire my SKS with aftermarket thumbhole stock at Chris' place, I was seriously considering going back to the original wooden stock - the cheek rest is too high for me to sight comfortably and I took a lot of recoil to the face because of it. Now it looks like my mind has been made up for me by the Superintendant - will have to go back to the original stock or shell out for a cat E licence.

What sucks is that now it will be hard to sell off the aftermarket stock and recupe some of what I paid for it.

[jono035]

After finally getting to fire my SKS with aftermarket thumbhole stock at Chris' place, I was seriously considering going back to the original wooden stock - the cheek rest is too high for me to sight comfortably and I took a lot of recoil to the face because of it. Now it looks like my mind has been made up for me by the Superintendant - will have to go back to the original stock or shell out for a cat E licence.

What sucks is that now it will be hard to sell off the aftermarket stock and recupe some of what I paid for it.

Well given that it turns your gun into an assault rifle, surely you can make a profit by selling it on the black market! :wacko:

Bad luck though, higher rings or some sanding wouldn't help?

[scumdog]

Well given that it turns your gun into an assault rifle, surely you can make a profit by selling it on the black market! :wacko:

Bad luck though, higher rings or some sanding wouldn't help?

And some careful filling-in of the lower part of the thumb-hole?

Just because it has a thumbhole stock does not automaticaly make it a cat E weapon.

[jono035]

And some careful filling-in of the lower part of the thumb-hole?

Just because it has a thumbhole stock does not automaticaly make it a cat E weapon.

'twas a joke, my good man.... I still haven't seen the wording on the changes, only the pic posted on the nzrimfire forums...

[sAsLEX]

And some careful filling-in of the lower part of the thumb-hole?

Just because it has a thumbhole stock does not automaticaly make it a cat E weapon.

Look at the top one. This is a purely thumb hole stock. Does not even meet the Superintendents requirements for a "full hand pistol grip" is in no way even close to being a "free standing pistol grip" and yet he has announced that from this day forward it is a MSSA.

[Wolf]

Well given that it turns your gun into an assault rifle, surely you can make a profit by selling it on the black market! :wacko:

Bad luck though, higher rings or some sanding wouldn't help?
Well, I did try sanding a bit off my cheek but the blood started to get annoying and gummed up the action...

New rings wouldn't do much as it's the original iron sights and I'd need to hack a goodly amount off the stock as I had my head jammed hard against it and still had difficulty lining up the sights and my eye.

I'm not sure the original stock is any better - I have not compared the two (and never fired it with either stock until a few weeks back) - would have to put it back on to see.

Irony was that the only things I needed to do to make it cat A was remove the bayonet lug (which I did from the outset before the MSSA law anyway) and get the mag cut down as the SKS never had a freestanding pistol grip or a flash suppressor to begin with. Little did I know that at some future date someone was going to reinterpret my target stock as cat E...

I don't buy anything to do with "easier to shoot from the hip" or such (no evidence to support that - it's likely purely subjective) and put the entire thing down to knee-jerk reactions (well, someone's jerking something...) to guns that "just look fuckin' scary, OK?"

[Drunken Monkey]

Just thought I'd check if anyone has any older 243 upwards caliber rifles they don't use that wouldn't mind selling off that aren't on trademe?

I got a parker hale model 1200 m98 action in .243 I was thinking of trading up to a remington 700. How much you willing to spend?

[wbks]

Don't really want to spend anything more than what I can get a semi decent .303 for as I only really need it for starting hunting.

[Drunken Monkey]

PM me a ball park figure in $$$. If it's close, then I'll take a couple of pics and send them through with some contact details. I don't want to waste your time if I'm asking too much and I'm sure you don't want me to waste mine if you aren't to spend enough...(.303's on trademe go from $100 - $900 = that's a big range)

[Mr Merde]

<TABLE class=bg160 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=740 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD>The International Rifle Match
Harper's Weekly, New York, Saturday, October 10, 1874

</TD><TD>http://www.lrml.org/images/spacer.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD colSpan=2>No event in the sporting world has excited more general attention this season than the grand International Rifle Match at Creedmoor, Long Island, between the American and Irish "teams." The latter arrived in this city on the 16th of September, and since that time have occupied themselves in viewing the sights of the New World and preliminary practice at Creedmoor. The party includes Major Arthur Blennerhassett Leech, head of the Irish Rifle Association about ten years since, Mr. H.H. Foster, Honorary Secretary of the Association, Mr. John Rigby, the maker of the rifle the team are engaged in introducing, Dr. J.B. Hamilton, Mr. James Wilson, Mr. J.K. Milner, Mr. Edmund Johnson, and Captain P. Walker. The party were accompanied by the Lord Mayor of Dublin, who has come to this country to see the shooting at Creedmoor, and afterward to indulge in a few weeks' sport on the great plains of the West.
http://www.lrml.org/historical/creedmoor/images/creedmoorhw18741010range.jpg
We give above an illustration showing the last practice of the two teams at Creedmoor,
two days before the match took place.

The American team were Mr. Henry Fulton, Mr. H.A. Gildersleeve, Mr. T.S. Dakin, Mr. G.W. Yale, Colonel John Bodine, and Mr. L.L. Hepburn. Mr. Fulton is a Lieutenant in the Twelfth Regiment, is twenty-eight years old, and served in the army during the war. He won several prizes at Montreal at the last meeting of the Quebec Rifle Association, as did also Messrs. Gildersleeve and Yale. Mr. Gildersleeve is Lieutenant-Colonel of the Twelfth Regiment, is thirty-three years old, enlisted in the One Hundred and Fiftieth Regiment during the war, fought at Gettysburg, was with Sherman on his march to the sea, serving the latter part of the war as Provost Marshal of the Twentieth Army Corps. Mr. Dakin is a Brigadier-General in the New York militia, is forty-three years old, weighs 220 pounds, is a good shot, and has seen service during the war. Mr. Hepburn is forty-two years old, a gun-maker, employed in the rifle-works of E. Remington & Sons, Ilion, New York. Mr. Yale is also a gun-maker, and is superintendent of Sharp's rifle-works, Hartford, Connecticut. He is forty-eight years old. The two latter gentlemen have had great experience with rifles. Colonel Bodine lives in Highland, New Jersey. He is an old rifleman and a good shot. Mr. G.W. Wingate, who was chosen Captain of the team, is a lawyer, a Colonel in the militia, President of the Amateur Rifle Club, and has taken an active part in the rifle-shooting at Creedmoor.
A beautiful silver cup which Captain Leech has brought over to present for competition to the riflemen of America is illustrated. It is a very graceful and artistic piece of workmanship, tastefully embossed, and surmounted by a representation of an ancient castle in ruin. It bears the following inscription:

</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD vAlign=top colSpan=2>
http://www.lrml.org/historical/creedmoor/images/creedmoorhw18741010cup.jpg




PRESENTED
FOR COMPETITION
TO THE RIFLEMEN OF AMERICA
BY
ARTHUR BLENNERHASSETT LEECH,
CAPTAIN OF THE IRISH INTERNATIONAL
TEAM OF RIFLEMEN,
ON THE OCCASION OF THEIR VISIT TO NEW YORK,
1874

</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD colSpan=2>The day appointed for the grand match, September 26, was every thing that could be desired, and the grounds at Creedmoor wore a gala-day appearance. From 8000 to 10,000 visitors were on the spot, and American and Irish flags were numerously displayed. The utmost good feeling prevailed during the entire contest. The shooting began at half past ten, at 800 yards, and was extraordinary for precision and for the evenness of skill displayed by the several members of the two teams. So well matched were the contestants that it was not decided which party would win until Colonel Bodine, of the American team, delivered the last shot, making a bull's-eye and winning for his party by three points. The following table shows the score of each team:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width=450 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>
TOTALS OF AMERICAN SCORES




</TD><TD colSpan=2>
TOTALS OF IRISH SCORES




</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width="35%">Henry Fulton

G.W. Yale
John Bodine
Colonel Gildersleeve
L.L. Hepburn
T.S. Dakin

</TD><TD width="15%">
171

162
158
155
149
139



</TD><TD width="35%">John Rigby

J.B. Hamilton
James Wilson
J.K. Milner
Edmund Johnson
Captain Walker

</TD><TD width="15%">
163

160
160
154
150
144




</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD>Grand Total


</TD><TD>
934




</TD><TD>Grand Total


</TD><TD>
931




</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD><TD colSpan=2>At the termination of the shooting at 800 yards, luncheon was served, and prior to the resuming of the match, Major Leech, of the Irish team, in a neat and graceful speech, presented the silver cup described above, and also decorated colonel Wingate with the badge of the Irish Rifle Association. Nothing occurred during the day to mar the pleasure and harmony of the occasion, barring some railroad mismanagement, and both parties have reason to be proud of their display of skill. While it was a famous victory for the Americans, the Irish riflemen need not feel chagrined at their defeat.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[The Pastor]

thats awesome, i'd love to give 1000m shooting a go. Im sure my lever is up to it.....



when i get it back from the store that is....

[KREWZR]

After seeing the Police advisory and considering the appropriate legislation, I have decided to seek a judicial review on this matter. I am going to the High Court to get a declaratory judgement to the effect that the Police cannot classify a thumbhole buttstock as a military pattern free-standing pistol grip. Anyone who wishes to support my effort with any information, submissions, finanical assistance please email me directly at rlincoln@cit.net.nz:done:

[Mr Merde]

After seeing the Police advisory and considering the appropriate legislation, I have decided to seek a judicial review on this matter. I am going to the High Court to get a declaratory judgement to the effect that the Police cannot classify a thumbhole buttstock as a military pattern free-standing pistol grip. Anyone who wishes to support my effort with any information, submissions, finanical assistance please email me directly at rlincoln@cit.net.nz:done:

I never thought I would see this sort of action taken by anyone.

Its what should be done. If it is contrary to the law of the land then it should be challenged. Laws are bought into place to, hopefully, give boundaries to what can and cant be done. They are always buggerred by those who put their interpretation on what they feel was actually meant by the reason behind the law.

If you can get any sort of response to your questions I would be most interested.

Couple of questions.

1) Are you a shooter yourself?
2) Are you in the legal profession as this is how you come accross.

I await your response. If I feel that you are genuine then you will have my fullest support.

As i have said before in this thread, I have lived through the UK law changes nof the 1980's and 90's and saw those with all the best intentions fail through lack of universal support.

Kdeep me posted.

Chris

[Indiana_Jones]

Kdeep me posted.

Chris


What he said.

-Indy

[KREWZR]

I am not in the legal profession as such but I have considerable experience and have passed academic papers in law. It was one of my 'minor' subjects at University.

I have an A CAT license and I own and use one of the effected firearms (as stated in the advisory) an H&K SL8. I use that particular firearm for helishooting, thick bush hunting and target shooting. I am a law abiding responsible firearms users who has an E Cat safe and fully alarmed security. Since becoming aware of the "reclassification" I have removed the gas piston and rod from my SL8, thus converting it to a straight pull bolt action rifle (non-mssa). I have sent the gas piston and rod to an arms dealer for safe keeping.

The papers for filing for a judical review were filed today in the High Court at Palmerston North. I will start a website shortly to update all interested parties as things unfold.

Regards (or should that be rear-guards?)

Richard Lincoln
(Saving your butts since 2009):Oi:

[Indiana_Jones]

Well Richard, if you make your fight well known to the public (firearm owners or not) I'm sure you will get a lot of support, from myself and others

-Indy

[KREWZR]

http://frommycolddeadhand.blogspot.com/

[Drunken Monkey]

yay me! first to vote!

[The Pastor]

Is there some sort of base letter we can send to our local MP? one that outlines the problem etc, im no good at writing much

[Mr Merde]

Richard,

I am impressed.

Do you need to have to be affected by this change to apply for something similar?

I notice that you specifically mention the HK.

Could someone make application re all those stocks that are affected.

Government departments hate having the "law" used against them as they all assume that they are above such trivialities.

They make the law and they interpret them therefore they feel that they are above having to comply by them.

I'd send a letter to my MP but she doesnt care for her constituants in any way. "Crusher Collins" is the police minister and other posts.

Look at how she is representing the feelings of her constituants by supporting the Auckland suoer city when the majority in Papakura dont want anything to do with it.

[jono035]

Do you need to have to be affected by this change to apply for something similar?

I notice that you specifically mention the HK.

Could someone make application re all those stocks that are affected.

I was noticing the same thing. The HK USC is another listed and is a gun that I would dearly like to own but also seems to fall further on the side of free-standing pistol grip than thumbhole stock.

What I'd most like to see, obviously, is the change reversed completely, even for the Dragunov style ones as I severely doubt that it will do anything. The only thing that makes sense in the E-cat criteria is mag size though... If someone wanted to add a bayonet, they could just use duct tape and hose-clamps.

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Well said Richard, 100% right, unfortuneatly it takes legal action for 'common sense' to apply.

[KREWZR]

Good question... see my blog

http://frommycolddeadhand.blogspot.com/

and read the comments on the statement of claim.

Cheers
R

:Police: < :finger:

[KREWZR]

to vote and subscribe !

:Police: < :nono:

[carver]

the finish on my norinco 22 mag seems to better than my ruger 10/22
everytime i get the 10/22 out, its rusty....

buy chinese!

[frogfeaturesFZR]

I know Ruger are Yank, but don't they get some parts made in Mexico ???

[carver]

I know Ruger are Yank, but don't they get some parts made in Mexico ???

i think the quality of their steel is shit

[frogfeaturesFZR]

Buy a Kimber !

[nallac]

Fuck they gave you a license to drive,which was bad enough and then gave you a gun license:shit:....Fuck whats happened to this world?.

[carver]

Fuck they gave you a license to drive,which was bad enough and then gave you a gun license:shit:....Fuck whats happened to this world?.

yes, and i was about to get my "B" too

oh well, class 4 with a D endorsement this year for driving

[ynot slow]

The Norinco seems a good value rifle,was looking at a couple of lever action ones,couldn't get a Norinco L/A and Henry was $700 plus.

Ended up with a bolt action Norinco,scoped,2 mags,bag for $350 and is the EN model which has a really unique type bolt action,very smooth.

[SMOKEU]

I've used a few Norincos' and they seem to be quite a good quality.

[Laava]

Better than shit Stirling. Bought a brick of their 22 ammo many years ago and when you fired it thru the old semi auto it would go, bang, pop, fizz, chugg. I swear every one made a different noise. Of course it always jammed too. Shit guns and shit ammo. Made in the flipperlines or some such.

[Indiana_Jones]

Buy a Mosin-Nagant!

-Indy

[Sidewinder]

the finish on my norinco 22 mag seems to better than my ruger 10/22
everytime i get the 10/22 out, its rusty....

buy chinese!

what you mean my old magnum that i use to do this with?


<img src="http://file046a.bebo.com/13/large/2009/03/17/03/6075184799a10361618313l.jpg">

<img src="http://file046a.bebo.com/13/large/2009/03/17/03/6075184799a10361618298l.jpg">

[carver]

Better than shit Stirling. Bought a brick of their 22 ammo many years ago and when you fired it thru the old semi auto it would go, bang, pop, fizz, chugg. I swear every one made a different noise. Of course it always jammed too. Shit guns and shit ammo. Made in the flipperlines or some such.

yeah, i had one of those too, they were shit!


what you mean my old magnum that i use to do this with?




yes, thats the gun.
was this you or me?

[koba]

A friend who used to work in a gun shop pretty much said the same, the norincos are better gun for less money.

[jrandom]

Yes, Norinco make good firearms. Their 1911 replica is supposed to be nice, too.

Rugers are overpriced. Buy a Savage if you want a quality Murkn rifle.

[carver]

Yes, Norinco make good firearms. Their 1911 replica is supposed to be nice, too.

Rugers are overpriced. Buy a Savage if you want a quality Murkn rifle.

i would not have another ruger.whats the acutrigger like?

[scumdog]

yes, and i was about to get my "B" too

oh well, class 4 with a D endorsement this year for driving

As long as they don't issue you with a cat. 'E':blink:

[beyond]

I like my Ruger 10/22. Ya gotta buy the stainless synthetic though :)

[Sidewinder]

I like my Ruger 10/22. Ya gotta buy the stainless synthetic though :)

nah you need a lswc9

[carver]

As long as they don't issue you with a cat. 'E':blink:

i would have had a B and a E by now on the firearms licence.


I like my Ruger 10/22. Ya gotta buy the stainless synthetic though :)

i had a synth/stainless marlin, that was shit!

[beyond]

I like my Tikka 22.250 stainless T3 better though :)

[carver]

I like my Tikka 22.250 stainless T3 better though :)

seriously, my favorite is my Norinco 22 magnum, or my Remington 870 express magnum.
shotguns just are so easy, and the magnum has a lightened trigger, its light, no much kick, and accurate, and good on small game

[beyond]

seriously, my favorite is my Norinco 22 magnum, or my Remington 870 express magnum.
shotguns just are so easy, and the magnum has a lightened trigger, its light, no much kick, and accurate, and good on small game

Had a nice wooded Brno Z611 magnum with a 10 shot mag which I liked shooting. Cost a mint and got bugger all for it when I traded it.

had my 10/22 stainless with me on a quick fitness jog around the high hills back of Kawakawa bay a few years back. Had two 25 round banana clips back to back packed with high velocity lasers and took seven goats down with it before they all hit the fenceline. Was some awesome fun and some seriously quick shooting. :)

[jono035]

Yeah, the 10/22 is a damn good rifle. If yours is rusting then look after it better, any blued steel gun will rust if worn and not looked after. Mine has a stainless target barrel on for bunny shooting so no probs there.

I've got a Stirling 16P for possum hunting, also full stainless and it's a brilliant little gun. Cost me $200 with mag and supressor, doesn't weigh much even with original wooden stock, good balance, shoulders nicely, shoots well. Only gripes are REALLY heavy trigger (easy to fix but haven't bothered as I take a lot of gun newbies out shooting when I can) and replacement mags are $100ish.

And as for carver getting an E cat, if you can get a B cat you can generally get an E cat, same background check etc.

[Wolf]

Fuck they gave you a license to drive,which was bad enough and then gave you a gun license:shit:....Fuck whats happened to this world?.
I'm still dwelling on the idea of armed Mormons! I'm gonna be bloody cautious the next time a couple of them knock on my door...

[Lula]

seriously, my favorite is my Norinco 22 magnum, or my Remington 870 express magnum.
shotguns just are so easy, and the magnum has a lightened trigger, its light, no much kick, and accurate, and good on small game

I like to kill possums and rabbits, keen on the odd magpie and the miner bird - I'm worried your too gay to kill. But nice to know you own big guns :2guns:

Wanna come shooting with me sometime? Promise I'll let you have first shot :chase:

[Indiana_Jones]

I like to kill possums and rabbits, keen on the odd magpie and the miner bird - I'm worried your too gay to kill. But nice to know you own big guns :2guns:

Wanna come shooting with me sometime? Promise I'll let you have first shot :chase:

A GIRL!!!!!!

What has the firearm thread come to! :shutup:

-Indy

[fatzx10r]

seriously, my favorite is my Norinco 22 magnum

there not to bad a rifle for the price, the trigger is a little light for my liking and the bolt is a bit slopy but works ok, i think mine was $300 new

[carver]

I like to kill possums and rabbits, keen on the odd magpie and the miner bird - I'm worried your too gay to kill. But nice to know you own big guns :2guns:

Wanna come shooting with me sometime? Promise I'll let you have first shot :chase:

ah, ok, but you have to use the 3030 first, and standing.

[Mr Merde]

ah, ok, but you have to use the 3030 first, and standing.

Just wait till you line up on a bunny with a .58 calibre round ball or a .75 as Wolf will be doing in the future. Or a .56 rimfire as I will be doing this weekend. Bet you didnt even know there was a .56 rimfire (even though it is actually a .52 calibre bullet)

A .22 will never feel the same again.

[Wolf]

Just wait till you line up on a bunny with a .58 calibre round ball or a .75 as Wolf will be doing in the future.
And if I actually manage to hit it with a smoothbore front-loading musket...

bunny vapour!

[ManDownUnder]

Just wait till you line up on a bunny with a .58 calibre round ball or a .75 as Wolf will be doing in the future.

... or a 12 gauge from about 2 meters... not so nice... (and Speedygirl... she had to pick it up).

I think she's forgiven me... it's only been 26 months...

"Hey - it's still alive"
*BOOM* "Really?"
"You C*nt!"

I think she likes me...:bash:

[Mr Merde]

I finally have some brass for my 1861 breechloading Ballard carbine. (see picture below).

As the original was a rimfire round and hasnt been made since about 1900 these pieces of brass use a 6mm blank as a primer. You have to orientate the round so that the blank is situated where the hammer strikes. No problem with a single shot.

I pick up 100 of these 6mm blanks tomorrow.

I have found that a cast round ball of .521 dia fits in the case and will engage the rifling in the barrel. Being made of soft lead the ball should obturate to fit the bore anyway.

On Saturday I will be loading these new rounds with 40 gns of FFg blackpowder. I have about 50 ball ready.

So this carbine that was last fired about 100 years ago is going to roar once again. I have checked it out for safety btw.

The actual round was the 55-56 Spencer. It used a 365 gn bullet over 50 gns of BP.

I think I have found a dealer in the US who has this mould for me. I will be contacting the company to make sure then order.

If anyone knows someone who could turn me out some more pieces of brass I would be most grateful. At US$7 each plus postage they came to about $15 NZ each to buy.

I can supply a piece to copy or drawings.

Chris

[Mr Merde]

... (and Speedygirl... she had to pick it up).

...:bash:


Bit by bit or with a shovel and broom?

[Indiana_Jones]

Bit by bit or with a shovel and broom?

With her teeth!

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

Bit by bit or with a shovel and broom?

By the back legs... it was a gut shot while it was lying sideways on the ground kicking... one 12gauge hole in one side - entails out the other.

The carcass was... mostly ... intact. Liz was very gracious about it too I hasten to add.

[Mr Merde]

By the back legs... it was a gut shot while it was lying sideways on the ground kicking... one 12gauge hole in one side - entails out the other.

The carcass was... mostly ... intact. Liz was very gracious about it too I hasten to add.

So all she had to do then was skin it, quarter it and cook it .:Oops::sweatdrop:woohoo:

"Me big hunter, me kill wabbit. You woman, you cook" :innocent: :shit:

[The Pastor]

mm I could go for a rabbit right about now

[SpeedyGirl]

... or a 12 gauge from about 2 meters... not so nice... (and Speedygirl... she had to pick it up).

I think she's forgiven me... it's only been 26 months...

"Hey - it's still alive"
*BOOM* "Really?"
"You C*nt!"

I think she likes me...:bash:

Mmmmmm..... was that after I trailed the entrails all the way along the truck???? LOL :innocent:


Bit by bit or with a shovel and broom?
what those fancy things???


With her teeth!

-Indy

:sick:

By the back legs... it was a gut shot while it was lying sideways on the ground kicking... one 12gauge hole in one side - entails out the other.

The carcass was... mostly ... intact. Liz was very gracious about it too I hasten to add.

'bout the only time i am


So all she had to do then was skin it, quarter it and cook it .:Oops::sweatdrop:woohoo:

"Me big hunter, me kill wabbit. You woman, you cook" :innocent: :shit:

TUI!!!!

[jono035]

Chris: Whereabouts do you fire the black powder rifles? Private place or as part of a club shoot? Would be interested in checking it out sometime if it's a club shoot and near Auckland...

[sAsLEX]

I like my Ruger 10/22. Ya gotta buy the stainless synthetic though :)

I am looking at the target with laminated "thumbhole" stock...... if its an A cat which the store is clarifying :P

[Indiana_Jones]

Still keen to pop down the Chris's on Sat MDU?

-Indy

[carver]

Just wait till you line up on a bunny with a .58 calibre round ball or a .75 as Wolf will be doing in the future. Or a .56 rimfire as I will be doing this weekend. Bet you didnt even know there was a .56 rimfire (even though it is actually a .52 calibre bullet)

A .22 will never feel the same again.

odd sizes there.....
I did not know about the .56 rimfire, when does it date from??

[jono035]

odd sizes there.....
I did not know about the .56 rimfire, when does it date from??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56-56_Spencer

Says patented in 1860 with commercial ammo available until the 1920s...

[Wolf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56-56_Spencer

Says patented in 1860 with commercial ammo available until the 1920s...
Fah! Goddamn newfangled thing in a diminutive calibre. :devil2:

The .75 to which Chris referred is a flintlock musket - designed in the 1700s...

[Wolf]

odd sizes there.....
I did not know about the .56 rimfire, when does it date from??
No, they will not let you fire it at the local rimfire club range...

[Mr Merde]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/56-56_Spencer

Says patented in 1860 with commercial ammo available until the 1920s...

Im impressed.

yes it was the original round for the Spencer repeating rifle. Later went to 56-52 then 56-50 and 56-44

There have been hundreds of rimfire rounds. All but the humble .22 have gone. Saying that the .22 is the oldest, dates from 1850, and is basically unchanged since apart from the powder it uses.

The popular handgun known as a Deringer UO was in .41 rimfire.
Colt made a couple. The Henry and the 1866 Winchester were rimfire rounds.

There is reallly nothing new in firearms and their munitions. I was reading a magazine a few months back and it was explaining that all the "new" calibres were nothing more than rebirths of older wilcats or less popular ones , given new names.

Our basic revolver deisign goes back2 hundred years. colt really only invented the method of turning the cylinder. As for semi auto pistols where would we be without the Man himself John Moses Browning.

The French were using bolt action rifles in the 1860's, machine guns go back to the mid 1880's, submachineguns back to the early 1900's

Lever rifles back to 1850's with the Volcanic pistol which became Winchester.

Single shot breech loading back to the late 1790's (the Fergusson Fifle)

Our priming system to the 1880's (Boxer from the UK and Berdan from the US, we predominately use the Boxer system now)

Black powder to the Chinese 2500 years ago and modern powder to the 1860's

What have we added? modern machining and materials. not a lot else.

To know the history of something gives makes you wonder at how little we have reallky progressed and developed.

Chris

[Mr Merde]

Chris: Whereabouts do you fire the black powder rifles? Private place or as part of a club shoot? Would be interested in checking it out sometime if it's a club shoot and near Auckland...

Sent you a pm

[Mr Merde]

Very quiet today.

[The Pastor]

im impressed.

Yes it was the original round for the spencer repeating rifle. Later went to 56-52 then 56-50 and 56-44

there have been hundreds of rimfire rounds. All but the humble .22 have gone. Saying that the .22 is the oldest, dates from 1850, and is basically unchanged since apart from the powder it uses.

The popular handgun known as a deringer uo was in .41 rimfire.
Colt made a couple. The henry and the 1866 winchester were rimfire rounds.

There is reallly nothing new in firearms and their munitions. I was reading a magazine a few months back and it was explaining that all the "new" calibres were nothing more than rebirths of older wilcats or less popular ones , given new names.

Our basic revolver deisign goes back2 hundred years. Colt really only invented the method of turning the cylinder. As for semi auto pistols where would we be without the man himself john moses browning.

The french were using bolt action rifles in the 1860's, machine guns go back to the mid 1880's, submachineguns back to the early 1900's

lever rifles back to 1850's with the volcanic pistol which became winchester.

Single shot breech loading back to the late 1790's (the fergusson fifle)

our priming system to the 1880's (boxer from the uk and berdan from the us, we predominately use the boxer system now)

black powder to the chinese 2500 years ago and modern powder to the 1860's

what have we added? Modern machining and materials. Not a lot else.

To know the history of something gives makes you wonder at how little we have reallky progressed and developed.

Chris
well that and accuracy.

[Wolf]

well that and accuracy.
Cue reminder from Chris re the accuracy achieved in days of yore that people today seldom match with modern weapons...

[Indiana_Jones]

Cue reminder from Chris re the accuracy achieved in days of yore that people today seldom match with modern weapons...

This is the firearm thread, not the fishing one!

-Indy

[The Pastor]

Cue reminder from Chris re the accuracy achieved in days of yore that people today seldom match with modern weapons...
your telling me that out of the box rifles from 50 to 100 years ago are more accurate than modern rifles?

[Indiana_Jones]

your telling me that out of the box rifles from 50 to 100 years ago are more accurate than modern rifles?

You've opened a can of worms now lol

Depends on the make etc?

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

your telling me that out of the box rifles from 50 to 100 years ago are more accurate than modern rifles?

No.

They were as accurate, and given that in those days your very life could be dependant upon knowing how to shoot, there were scores achieved that are on par with today. We havent surpassed those shooters of yesteryear in any proportion to our technological improvements.



In shotgunning. Adolf Tupperwain shot 10,000 2" blocks of wood thrown into the air and only missed 9 of them. This has never been beaten.

Ed McGivern in 1935 fired his revolver 6 times in 45/100ths of a second. All rounds were grouped in a 1" group.

Elmer Keith used to shoot jackrabbits at 400-600 yards with a 4 inch barreled revolver.

Billy Dixon shot an Indian off his horse at a range of 1500 yards with a .50 buffalo rifle.

We have become obsessed with having the latest toys and addons for our shooting. Whereas in previous times these toys were unheard of and money was scarce. You learnt to shoot with wat you had to the best of that weapons capability.

I have about 20 firearms and there are some I havent shot more than a couple of hundred rounds through. I dont know the gun. I cant call my shots with them.

When you have only one firearm and are expected to feed your family with it then you learn how it shoots or your family goes hungry.

In a time of war you better know your firearm or you will probably wind up dead.

Chris

[Indiana_Jones]

We all know the Mosin is the most accurate rifle there is.

Even if it misses, the shock-wave will still knock the target over

-Indy

[The Pastor]

No.

They were as accurate, and given that in those days your very life could be dependant upon knowing how to shoot, there were scores achieved that are on par with today. We havent surpassed those shooters of yesteryear in any proportion to our technological improvements.

well weight reduction and reliability has gone way up, no more rust or swollen stocks.




In shotgunning. Adolf Tupperwain shot 10,000 2" blocks of wood thrown into the air and only missed 9 of them. This has never been beaten.

Well I shot 10/10 clay targets the other day


Ed McGivern in 1935 fired his revolver 6 times in 45/100ths of a second. All rounds were grouped in a 1" group.
there are many guns that can easily better it today

Elmer Keith used to shoot jackrabbits at 400-600 yards with a 4 inch barreled revolver.
thats urban legend, how could he see that far? I cant even see the .22 targets at 25m!

Billy Dixon shot an Indian off his horse at a range of 1500 yards with a .50 buffalo rifle.
again urban legend.

We have become obsessed with having the latest toys and addons for our shooting. Whereas in previous times these toys were unheard of and money was scarce. You learnt to shoot with wat you had to the best of that weapons capability.
I think alot of gun nerds are around (Richard) that conform to that rule, but a lot of hunters are not like that at all, just look at all those bastardized bush beaters on tm. accurate to 50m on a pig sized target!


I have about 20 firearms and there are some I havent shot more than a couple of hundred rounds through. I dont know the gun. I cant call my shots with them.

When you have only one firearm and are expected to feed your family with it then you learn how it shoots or your family goes hungry.

In a time of war you better know your firearm or you will probably wind up dead.

Chris
I think in modern war, the chances of close range combat will be slim.

http://www.thecoastalexplorer.com/images/businesses/Gallery/3890_CropReeling%20One%20In.gif

[Mr Merde]

We all know the Mosin is the most accurate rifle there is.

Even if it misses, the shock-wave will still knock the target over

-Indy

And if it doesnt then all the pieces that fall off and get propelled through the air will always get something.

Well at least that seems to be how yours work

[Indiana_Jones]

And if it doesnt then all the pieces that fall off and get propelled through the air will always get something.

Well at least that seems to be how yours work

Gets the job done, doesn't it?

lol

-Indy

[The Pastor]

Gets the job done, doesn't it?

lol

-Indy
well it two shots to kill that calf you shot.

[Mr Merde]

well it two shots to kill that calf you shot.


He killed the "fatted calf"?

[Indiana_Jones]

well it two shots to kill that calf you shot.

is it still alive?

job done

-Indy

[The Pastor]

He killed the "fatted calf"?
nah his uncle had to finish the job. Got 1 out of2 tho.

[Mr Merde]

well weight reduction and reliability has gone way up, no more rust or swollen stocks. Modern US sniper rifle weighs in at 17lb





Well I shot 10/10 clay targets the other day Supposed to be in motion


there are many guns that can easily better it today True

thats urban legend, how could he see that far? I cant even see the .22 targets at 25m!That happens when you are gunshy

again urban legend. There were no Urban areas

I think alot of gun nerds are around (Richard) that conform to that rule, but a lot of hunters are not like that at all, just look at all those bastardized bush beaters on tm. accurate to 50m on a pig sized target!

Agree


I think in modern war, the chances of close range combat will be slim.

I'm an oldie. We dont go to war anymore. You young bucks are the ones we send. Argue tis point with the soldiers on the ground in Iraq and Afganistan

http://www.thecoastalexplorer.com/images/businesses/Gallery/3890_CropReeling%20One%20In.gif


...................................

[The Pastor]

The sniper rifle is hardly an out of the box rifle available to joe bloggs.

I bet you'd say the same thing about ducks too!


Whats this gunshy business?

Americans, spray and pray. Don't need no accuracy, just lots of bullets.

[Indiana_Jones]

Whats this gunshy business?

I think he means you're a n00b




Americans, spray and pray. Don't need no accuracy, just lots of bullets.

Same again, job done

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

The sniper rifle is hardly an out of the box rifle available to joe bloggs.

I bet you'd say the same thing about ducks too!


Whats this gunshy business?

Americans, spray and pray. Don't need no accuracy, just lots of bullets.


Its real hard to get ducks when they are sitting motionlees on a pond. Real hard to limit myself to just a few.

Gunshy or flinching, same thing. Anticipating the bullet firing by shutting ones eyes.

500,000 rounds per kill in Iraq

[The Pastor]

not sure if i shut my eyes or not, but i find it hard to see the target through the scope.

I know i just need a lot more practice with shooting.

[ManDownUnder]

He killed the "fatted calf"?

The fat cow didn't have her life insurance paid up... 2nd best is sometimes good enough.

[carver]

No, they will not let you fire it at the local rimfire club range...

no guns for you hippie!

[Wolf]

no guns for you hippie!
:crybaby: Y've gone 'n' hurt me feelings, now.

[Indiana_Jones]

What do you think about this weather Merde & MDU?

-Indy

[sAsLEX]

The sniper rifle is hardly an out of the box rifle available to joe bloggs.



The remington 700 which has been an issued sniper rifle in M24 format for a long time is available off the shelf.
<img src=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/061019-A-7603F-151.jpg/800px-061019-A-7603F-151.jpg>
Then there is the long range stuff you can buy of the shelf.
http://www.rpainternational.co.uk/rangemaster338.asp

[Mr Merde]

What do you think about this weather Merde & MDU?

-Indy

Overcast here.
Has been a fog but has now lifted.
Bit cold but wrap up warm

[Indiana_Jones]

Overcast here.
Has been a fog but has now lifted.
Bit cold but wrap up warm

I think the weather will hold out,

I'm game if MDU is, I can handle cold, I come from the land of the ice and snow.

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

<img src=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/061019-A-7603F-151.jpg/800px-061019-A-7603F-151.jpg>


What a fucking camper

Bet he uses last stand too

-Indy

[sAsLEX]

What a fucking camper

Bet he uses last stand too

-Indy

No spawning in real life Indy!

[Mr Merde]

YAHOOOOOOOOO

Loaded up the 56 calibre round

Stepped out side my back door

Loaded the carbine

Sighted at an old tree stump

Pulled the trigger.

Lots of smoke, bits of wood flying and one big mother of a smile on my face.

35 grains of FFG under a .521 ball

Shot where I pointed. Absolutely no recoil.

After approx 100 years the old rifle has permormed as intended.

Bit of a problem getting the 6mm blank out of the case but I think I have figgured out a method and will try to make the tool later.

This carbine was carried by Richard Roderick in the American Civil War. he was a private in the 12th Ohio Infantry and later served in a geurilla group called Blazer's Scouts.

In this group he sometimes rode in the uniform of the enemy (Confederate). Their main job was scouting and to go against Mosbeys Raiders.

In 1865 the Blazers were ambushed and of the 100 odd men in the unit half were killed or captured, including the commander Richard Blazer.

Richard Roderick came to NZ after the war and settled in the Dargaville area where he made his living as a bootmaker.

This rifle that was carried and used by him has once again spoken with a loud voice.

History is important.

Chris

[Mr Merde]

Raining here now. No news from those who were commming down.

Picked up 50 brass for the 45-70 last night.

Needs some serious reshaping. I should get 20-30 good pieces out of them.

I will be preping them before reloading.
Drill out the flash hole to 0.09", primer pocket cleaneded up and cut to a uniform depth, deburr the flash hole.

Weigh them into batches. All the same headstamp so by weighing them any differences will be due to thickness of the brass. Those of approx the same weight should have the same space inside the case for the powder.

I do this with my .223 brass. These pieces all weigh within .5 gn of each other.

Call me pendantic but accuracy is all about uniformity and repeatability.

I like to cut out as many variables as possible then I have nothing but myself to blame when I miss.

Looking now for some full length dies for the 45-70. Then I will be ready to reload properly. I have been pouring over the books by Paul Mathews lately in search of any tips on making the perfect 45-70 BP round. My head is swimming with in formation.

The Rolling Block still needs the rear sight mounted to the upper tang. I'm a bit loathe to do this myself as I dont feel really confident in my ability to align it correctly.

Found a butt plate for this rifle. Half shutzen style made of solid brass. Weighs in at 1 kg for this alone. Total weight of the rifle should be about 14lbs. This should soak up the recoil of a heavy BP round with a 525 gn bullet.

Rain stopped.

Give me another 2-3 months and I will be in full training mode with my BP rifles. Sharron has agreed that I need to spend a little more time on my hobbies. We have spent so much on the house and garden and need a break.

I will probably be looking for another couple of hundred 45-70 brass eventually. That way I can find a nice lot of brass that match. It will also mean that I can vary my reloading in the search for the correct combination that suits the rifle.

So much to do and so little time. Oh well I plan on being around for a few more years.

Chris

[jono035]

Dunno about down that way but up here in Auckland it held out pretty well until an hour ago then just started bucketing down. Trouble driving kind of heavy rain. Thankfully we got all my mates stuff in the door right before it started, otherwise they would have had a very wet mattress and couches to sleep on tonight...

That's a pretty interesting history on that rifle, must be nice to have it up and shooting again.

[Indiana_Jones]

Well the weather was a bitch, but good to see the little man had a good time.

Loved that little pump .22 :D

Cheers again Chris

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

Well the weather was a bitch, but good to see the little man had a good time.

Loved that little pump .22 :D

Cheers again Chris

-Indy

Ditto Chris - and thanks to you too Indy. My little man needs a few good men around from time to time... and he's up and raving on this morning.

He wants to invite his friends around to tell them about the shooting and he shot 4 in a one inch group with one flier, and the pump action .22 was the best gun but he liked this and that and he's got a pocket full of memories (aka spent .22 brass) and a HUGE bullet the cowboys used to shoot buffalo with and an even BIGGER piece of brass that it comes out of and Chris makes his own bullets and he's got a shotshell reloader like dad's and and and and... and it's only 11:00.

I think you guys get the idea.

The rain Gods were smiling on us yesterday too... the whole 100kms to Mr Merde's house with a mere hint of drizzle on the way - then ALMOST all the way home in total dry! I hope you got home dry Indy? We did all bar the last 10 kms (and then it totally and unmercifully PISSED DOWN).

All part of the adventure though... and the boys had a brilliant time. Ab-so-fucken-lutely brilliant time. It was only this morning I realised I was enjoying myself viacariously all afternoon... thinking back I spent most of the time cleaning guns (but she's run in now... goaties... LOOK OUT!)

Next time I bring the 270WSM...! Or maybe the HMR.

And the best till last. First words I got from Ruben this morning "Dad - can we go on another adventure today?" (closely followed by the tirade above). Very cute!

[Mr Merde]

MDU,

I am so very glad the youngster enjoyed himself. The future of our sport is in his and others of his age hands, and it is gratifying to see the enthusiasm pass on to this generation.

Sharron was very impressed by the young lad and she thinks you and Indy are real gentlemen.

No rain today apart from one shower. Sun is out and out of the wind it is quite warm.

Havent put the rifles away yet. Cleaning time I think.

Next time we will go to the 100 metre range and set up a number of targets at different distances.

I hope the demonstration of what a .22 does to a milk bottle full of water made the intended impression on the young one. He was telling me that he was that good that he felt he would hve got at least a couple of bunnies if we had of gone hunting. Hes got the bug mate. Your future hunting buddy is in the wings. Has he bent his mothers ears with shooting tales, I hope so.

Sharron said that next time you should stay for dinner.

I thoroughly enjoyed the day. Thanks for comming down to the sticks.

Chris

[Mr Merde]

Wolf,

Spoke to Harry yesterday.

He asked how trhe saving was going.

He is going to drop off the Brown Bess and all the bits and pieces here so when you are ready it will be easier for you to pick up.

Chris

[Indiana_Jones]

Ditto Chris - and thanks to you too Indy. My little man needs a few good men around from time to time... and he's up and raving on this morning.

I hope you got home dry Indy? We did all bar the last 10 kms (and then it totally and unmercifully PISSED DOWN).



I could see how glad the little guy was when we were inside chatting/having coffee, he had the biggest grin on his face!

Ummm I got very lucky, it chucked it down just as I was leaving the chippies getting my dinner, only 2km up the road from my place!



Sharron was very impressed by the young lad and she thinks you and Indy are real gentlemen.

I thoroughly enjoyed the day. Thanks for comming down to the sticks.

Chris

Was there another Indy there?! :gob:

Thanks for having us :)

Will have to come out again in the not to distant future. Perhaps get Wolf to come along.

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

I could see how glad the little guy was when we were inside chatting/having coffee, he had the biggest grin on his face!

Yeah man, he's hooked all right.


Will have to come out again in the not to distant future. Perhaps get Wolf to come along.

-Indy
Did I mention my newfound ability to print targets... in living colour? One of the tools that followed me to my home office is a colour laser printer... :)

[Mr Merde]

Well I better design and build some sort of target holder for the range.

Plenty of scrap lying around.

15, 25, 50, 75 and 100 metre targets.

Shouldnt be too hard to do.

Better get the tape measure out to make sure of the distances.

Looks like I will be working on the firing point a bit also. Thistle is rather uncomfortable when lying on it.

Mark from the UK rang this morning. He has managed to get the Springfield Trapdoor on ticket after much hassle from the police as to how he came into possession of a rifle in the Uk that wasnt registered. Bugger me but there are hundred of thousands of unlicenced firearms in the UK. At one time 1/2 million shotguns "dissappeared" when they bought individual registering of each shotgun. This was after the Hungerford incident and Michael Ryan didnt even use a shotgun. Anyway, Mark is bringing the rifle with him on the 4th Sept. He will also bring a supply of brass for loading and a mould for a 405gn bullet. He will apply for a 1 year licence when he gets to Auckland airport.The rifle is going to be a gift to me so he was wondering if he will be liable for import duty etc on a gift.

Being that this rifle is 126 years old it is certainly second hand goods.

Bastard made me quite jealous. His old man is in the process of buying an original Rigby target muzzle loading rifle of the 1870's. These were the epitome of muzzle loaders. Costing him 5000UKP or approx $13,000NZ for this rifle. I know his dad has a couple of Whitworth rifles with the hexagonal bullet and bore. Len (Mark's dad is captain of the British muzzleloading team competing at the world champs in the US in Sept).

Chris

[Mr Merde]

just sent Spank an e-mail suggesting that this "thread" surely deserves to have its own forum now as with over 3000 posts it is very prolific.

It could be subdivided into vatrious themes.

If you agree may I suggest you also approach him with a similar suggestion.

Chris

[Wolf]

just sent Spank an e-mail suggesting that this "thread" surely deserves to have its own forum now as with over 3000 posts it is very prolific.

It could be subdivided into vatrious themes.

If you agree may I suggest you also approach him with a similar suggestion.

Chris
Over 3000 posts? Amateurs compared with the infamous "Scottish Thread" :D

Good idea. Bags I don't get the job of splitting this thread down into its component topics!

[Mr Merde]

"Police in stand-off with hit-and-run suspect

Updated 10:46AM Monday Jul 06, 2009
<!-- Ixt1-->

Police are involved in a stand-off on the banks of the Waikato River with a man believed to have been involved in a hit-and-run this morning.
Inspector Kerry Watson said a police officer has been injured and the man is waving planks of wood.
NZPA is reporting that the man is standing on the edge of the Waikato River and police officers are negotiating with him.
The man was reported to have run from a crashed car after a hit-and-run in the Hamilton suburb of Pukete about 8.30am which left one person - thought to be a police officer - injured, Radio New Zealand reported.
A Herald reporter at the scene said the shirtless man briefly jumped into the river.
The Waikato Times said Delamere Road was cordoned off and there was a large police presence on the riverbank near Pukete Bridge.
Mr Watson said police were not commenting because the incident had "not been resolved".
St John Ambulance Waikato operations manager Mark Taylor confirmed a police officer has been transported to Waikato Hospital with moderate injuries."

++++++++++++++++++++

Waiting for the AOS to arrive and shoot him. A plank of wood has to be more dangerous than a golf club or a chair leg.

[Wolf]

"Police in stand-off with hit-and-run suspect

Waiting for the AOS to arrive and shoot him. A plank of wood has to be more dangerous than a golf club or a chair leg.
BAN ALL PLANKS OF WOOD.

Dangerous weapons. Always been suspicious of how builders stockpile the stuff...

[Indiana_Jones]

wait wait guys....

did the plank of would have a 'free-standing' pistol grip?!

-Indy

[Mr Merde]

wait wait guys....

did the plank of would have a 'free-standing' pistol grip?!

-Indy

No but it has already caused injury to a police officer.

It has the potential to be shaped to have a "free standing pistol grip" though

[Wolf]

wait wait guys....

did the plank of would have a 'free-standing' pistol grip?!

-Indy
A bit of wood with a free-standing grip is called a PR24 Police Baton...

http://www.legear.com.au/Monadnock-PR-24STS-One-Piece-PR24-w-Stop-p/monadnock-md1000.htm

[ManDownUnder]

BAN ALL PLANKS OF WOOD.

Dangerous weapons. Always been suspicious of how builders stockpile the stuff...

Oh now you're being silly. Simply license the purchase and use of wood - let's say anything over 762mm in length could be a plank, and anything shorter could be a chunk.

Chunks should only allowed to be used at certified and approved ranges... they can be easily concealed and thrown without warning to endanger innocent people or property...

[Wolf]

Oh now you're being silly. Simply license the purchase and use of wood - let's say anything over 762mm in length could be a plank, and anything shorter could be a chunk.

Chunks should only allowed to be used at certified and approved ranges... they can be easily concealed and thrown without warning to endanger innocent people or property...
:killingme :2thumbsup
+1
Brilliant.

[Mr Merde]

Oh now you're being silly. Simply license the purchase and use of wood - let's say anything over 762mm in length could be a plank, and anything shorter could be a chunk.

Chunks should only allowed to be used at certified and approved ranges... they can be easily concealed and thrown without warning to endanger innocent people or property...

A logical thinker.

This is why you are able to work from home now.

Your dedication to the job in hand and the unique spin on old problems you manage to devise.

Chris

[Swoop]

Oh now you're being silly. Simply license the purchase and use of wood - let's say anything over 762mm in length could be a plank, and anything shorter could be a chunk....
So... Anything shorter than 7.62mm would constitute a "sawn-off"?:scratch:

[ManDownUnder]

So... Anything shorter than 7.62mm would constitute a "sawn-off"?:scratch:

LOL I like it!

Back to the topic at hand... Mr Man by Te Waikato river... Taser the fucker. All this hoo ha about well being and getting hurt and calling the appropriate people to counsel him

Zap him - make him do the spasm dance on the river bank, cuff him, stuff him into the fuzzmobile... and THEN counsel him. No -one hurt, not too many extras needed to solve the problem.

Or maybe the dog handler gets a call and Mr Man get the choice - the dog or the eels. His choice, his responsibility

[wbks]

In all seriousness, why should pistols only be allowed use at a "special" range? Does the barrel explode when you fire it at a normal range?... The range and power of a pistol is a lot less than most rifles, so I can't see any reason it would be unsafe? And I'm guessing that what man downunder said has something to do with why pistols are regulated... So why is it any different restricting it to specific shooting ranges? I'm pretty sure if I was going to shoot someone with my pistol after concealing it in my jacket I wouldn't think "fuck, this isn't a B cat. approved range!"

[Drunken Monkey]

It's just THE MAN trying to keep you down, brother.

[jono035]

In all seriousness, why should pistols only be allowed use at a "special" range? Does the barrel explode when you fire it at a normal range?... The range and power of a pistol is a lot less than most rifles, so I can't see any reason it would be unsafe? And I'm guessing that what man downunder said has something to do with why pistols are regulated... So why is it any different restricting it to specific shooting ranges? I'm pretty sure if I was going to shoot someone with my pistol after concealing it in my jacket I wouldn't think "fuck, this isn't a B cat. approved range!"

I think it's more to do with making it so you've got no excuse to have the pistol anywhere but a small number of places... Basically if you've got it in your car and aren't halfway between your home and the gun range then the police can start asking tricky questions... Also you're only allowed to fire the weapon under the supervision of a 'qualified' range officer (a single evening course), so if you want to fire it alone you need your RO qualification.

None of this would stop someone who is determined to shoot someone else, but it sure as hell stops me thinking about ever taking my guns over to a friends place to show them off or taking them out to a patch of paddock/bush somewhere to shoot some cans with them. Basically if you get caught, you lose em.

Not that I wouldn't dearly love to be able to wander out into a paddock somewhere and let rip at some nasty menacing cans and possibly a watermelon or 2 :D

[wbks]

I think it's more to do with making it so you've got no excuse to have the pistol anywhere but a small number of places... Basically if you've got it in your car and aren't halfway between your home and the gun range then the police can start asking tricky questions... Also you're only allowed to fire the weapon under the supervision of a 'qualified' range officer (a single evening course), so if you want to fire it alone you need your RO qualification.

None of this would stop someone who is determined to shoot someone else, but it sure as hell stops me thinking about ever taking my guns over to a friends place to show them off or taking them out to a patch of paddock/bush somewhere to shoot some cans with them. Basically if you get caught, you lose em.

Not that I wouldn't dearly love to be able to wander out into a paddock somewhere and let rip at some nasty menacing cans and possibly a watermelon or 2 :DSo basically like I said, it won't stop someone shooting someone else with a pistol but it will stop use of it in a field where it is no different to a rifle... Though I guess if someone was caught carrying one in their car obviously with some bad intentions you could take it off them.

[jono035]

So basically like I said, it won't stop someone shooting someone else with a pistol but it will stop use of it in a field where it is no different to a rifle... Though I guess if someone was caught carrying one in their car obviously with some bad intentions you could take it off them.

Well a pistol is still a HELL of a lot more dangerous than a rifle in a lot of cases, you have to be so much more aware of barrel direction and weapon state. It's a lot easier to keep on top of this in a formal range setting when you're obeying firing line commands, have someone else checking the guns and have barriers up to discourage people turning while holding the weapons.

That's not to say that a rifle is not dangerous, it's just that different aspects of it are, which are often easier to manage, especially if you're out in the middle of nowhere.

The length of the barrel and compactness of a smallish semi-auto make it insanely easy to do something incredibly stupid, I've seen quite a few people who I'm sure if not restrained or warned by an observant RO would have turned and had a loaded weapon pointed towards others on the range or at themselves.

[jono035]

www.theboxotruth.com

Excellent website with some interesting tests of bulletproof materials and other things...

[scumdog]

So... Anything shorter than 7.62mm would constitute a "sawn-off"?:scratch:

I'd say:eek5:

.308 of an inch long is certainly 'sawn-off'.:yes:

[jono035]

I'd say:eek5:

.308 of an inch long is certainly 'sawn-off'.:yes:

yeah, but what he isn't telling you is that it's a 7.62mm 'long' x 2m 'wide' sniper-dowel! :D

[ManDownUnder]

I'd say:eek5:

.308 of an inch long is certainly 'sawn-off'.:yes:

There's medication that'll fix that right up mate. Just turn off your spam filters...

[jono035]

There's medication that'll fix that right up mate. Just turn off your spam filters...

One of these days I'm going to start selling penis enlargement pills through spam mail, just as soon as I can find something that will (safely) turn someone's skin blue after they take it or something.

Nothing would educate the public quite like being able to look around and say 'hey look, another idiot who thought that buying drugs sold online through spam was a good idea!'

[Swoop]

I'd say:eek5:

.308 of an inch long is certainly 'sawn-off'.:yes:
Bahahahaha!!! Well spotted Sir!
Bloody decimal point getting into places where it shouldn't be...

[Mr Merde]

Bahahahaha!!! Well spotted Sir!
Bloody decimal point getting into places where it shouldn't be...

I'd blame the French for that. If it wasnt for them we wouldnt have that damn metric system and therefore no decimal point.

[Wolf]

There's medication that'll fix that right up mate. Just turn off your spam filters...
"You must spread some reputation..."

[Wolf]

I'd blame the French for that. If it wasnt for them we wouldnt have that damn metric system and therefore no decimal point.
What's that thing in front of an "Imperial" calibre called?
.303 .357 .44 etc

[Mr Merde]

What's that thing in front of an "Imperial" calibre called?
.303 .357 .44 etc

Breaking goos inches down into a metric (decimal) representation

what was wrong with guage, dram, 1/32, 1/64, 1/128th etc, 2 bore, 4 bore, 12 bore, furlong , yard,

rule of thumb (1 ")

chain and all the really good stuff.

[Wolf]

Breaking goos inches down into a metric (decimal) representation

what was wrong with guage, dram, 1/32, 1/64, 1/128th etc, 2 bore, 4 bore, 12 bore, furlong , yard,

rule of thumb (1 ")

chain and all the really good stuff.
Pommy bloke at work vilifies the metric system then mentions "1.4 inches" - I told him "there's no such thing as point four of an inch; the Imperial system is not decimal."

How long have they been referring to decimalised calibres, O fount of Firearms History? When and where did it start?

You have referred to the Brown Bess as a .75. Was that how its calibre was reckonned in the 1700s or was it a something-gauge?

[Mr Merde]

Pommy bloke at work vilifies the metric system then mentions "1.4 inches" - I told him "there's no such thing as point four of an inch; the Imperial system is not decimal."

How long have they been referring to decimalised calibres, O fount of Firearms History? When and where did it start?

You have referred to the Brown Bess as a .75. Was that how its calibre was reckonned in the 1700s or was it a something-gauge?

No the bess was never classified by the calibre.

I cant remeber the excact termionology the used.

Trantor who made pistols called them by "bore" size.

Rifles were measured by "bore"

Its an interesting line of questioning and I am going to check out my resourses to see if I can find an answer.

I have this nagging suspicion that expressing the size of a pistol by metrification of its bore diameter may have come from the Americas

[Wolf]

I have this nagging suspicion that expressing the size of a pistol by metrification of its bore diameter may have come from the Americas
Wouldn't surprise me, bloody Yanks always get everything wrong...

Kind of ironic if they did create the decimalised calibres - considering they were one of the last in the World to adopt the metric system then they dropped it again as it was "unAmerican".

[Mr Merde]

Wouldn't surprise me, bloody Yanks always get everything wrong...

Kind of ironic if they did create the decimalised calibres - considering they were one of the last in the World to adopt the metric system then they dropped it again as it was "unAmerican".

http://www.oldguns.co.uk/william_tranter.html

"During this period it was normal practice to describe the diameter of the bore in bore size rather than calibre. The bore size being the number of round lead balls of that diameter needed to weigh one pound. The most common ones used by Tranter were 120 bore (.320"), 80 bore (.380"), 54 bore (.442"), 38 bore (.500") and 24 bore (.577"). "

[ManDownUnder]

I'd blame the French for that. If it wasnt for them we wouldnt have that damn metric system and therefore no decimal point.

(***psst***) the Frogs use a comma... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator#Countries_using_Arabic_numerals_ with_decimal_comma)

9zwNazFg_-Y

[Wolf]

http://www.oldguns.co.uk/william_tranter.html

"During this period it was normal practice to describe the diameter of the bore in bore size rather than calibre. The bore size being the number of round lead balls of that diameter needed to weigh one pound. The most common ones used by Tranter were 120 bore (.320"), 80 bore (.380"), 54 bore (.442"), 38 bore (.500") and 24 bore (.577"). "
so the Bess would be around the 11 bore mark, by my calculations

[Wolf]

(***psst***) [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_separator#Countries_using_Arabic_numerals_ with_decimal_comma"]the Frogs use a comma...
smart-arse.

Edit: and no, they don't. According to my French teacher, it's called a "vergule" ;)

[Mr Merde]

so the Bess would be around the 11 bore mark, by my calculations

Thats about right.

I have a number of 12 guage brass cases to load for my shotgun, These are solid brass with no plastic. To get the right sized wads and over shot cards I had to import a large number of Circle Fly 11 guage items.

A 12 guage shotgun has a barrel diameter of .735

The Bess is .75

[Wolf]

I have a number of 12 guage brass cases to load for my shotgun, These are solid brass with no plastic. To get the right sized wads and over shot cards I had to import a large number of Circle Fly 11 guage items.
Dude, I have so got to find time to get over to your place and learn how to reload!


A 12 guage shotgun has a barrel diameter of .735

The Bess is .75
And the 10ga is .775 so 11ga seemed most likely.

I read that bore diameter can be calculated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_(bore_diameter))as 1.6699" x 1 divided by the cube root of the bore number and calculated 11ga out at about .751

[ManDownUnder]

ok so Ruben and his mate Jarron and hanging out looking a bit bored this afternoon and the HMR hasn't made any loud noises for a while so me thinks... the girls are out... there's a stack of phone books without enough holes in em... I wonder what we could possibly do to fix those little problems...

So the lads had a crack with the .17 cal. All lots of fun really.

.17 cal 17gr hollow point doesn't quite make it through 3 Auckland phone books (a complete set of 2 yellow pages and one white pages). Fun to recover the jacket after it's flipped itself inside out and the blob of lead too - surrounded by masses of finely shredded paper.

Highly recommended.

Next stop... bunny busting I reckon.

Chris - I hold you personally responsible.

[Indiana_Jones]

Chris - I hold you personally responsible.

That's what I always do, seems to work for me

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

That's what I always do, seems to work for me

-Indy

Yup - he motivated me to motivate my little man... the way it ought to be.

Besides - the HMR's a wee cracker of a rifle. Deceptively lethal. Bit of a bang but absolutely no kick

[Mr Merde]

Guilty as charged !!

Yes m'lud I puts me 'and up to this'un

I've done me bit for the future of the sport I hold so close and encouraged the next generation to at least try shooting.

Broad sholdas I 'as.

[KREWZR]

Website recently updated... dont worry I got you covered but hell I could use some support guys?

http://frommycolddeadhand.blogspot.com/

Cheers
R
:Police: <- :Playnice:

[jono035]

Website recently updated... dont worry I got you covered but hell I could use some support guys?

http://frommycolddeadhand.blogspot.com/ (http://http://frommycolddeadhand.blogspot.com/)

Cheers
R
:Police: <- :Playnice:

Your link is broken there mate, it should be:

http://frommycolddeadhand.blogspot.com

All shooters should be worried about the re-classification of weapons without any form of submissions process or consultation. Make some noise to your MPs etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

[KREWZR]

Doph.. fixed now !:argh:

[ManDownUnder]

Making your own projectiles... (http://www.maoritelevision.com/Default.aspx?tabid=292&pid=215&epid=2977)

Segment from 8:45 through 12:45. Looks like fun.

Does anyone recognise the tool he's using? I.e. brand?

[Mr Merde]

Making your own projectiles... (http://www.maoritelevision.com/Default.aspx?tabid=292&pid=215&epid=2977)

Segment from 8:45 through 12:45. Looks like fun.

Does anyone recognise the tool he's using? I.e. brand?

On dial up this is taking forever to dl

I'll have a look at work tomorrow.

[ManDownUnder]

On dial up this is taking forever to dl

I'll have a look at work tomorrow.

Aaaa good point - yes download warning - it's HUGE. The tool doesn't look like the one you told me about Chris although it might just be an older one?

Looks like a good series though - Thursday nights on Maori TV. 9:30 I think it is.

[jono035]

Yeah, that does look pretty good actually.

That bullet making process is interesting, he's casting the lead cores and then swaging them into de-rimmed .22LR cases for the jackets... Interesting process...

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/st_223short_200711/ (no videos, might be a bit easier on your net connection, Chris)

That article mentions rough-cutting lead-wire to get the core blanks... Might be easier...

Looking at the amount of .22lr brass that gets left over after a night at CSI has always made then think there has to be something they're useful for. I've cut a few up and used them for shim material, but apart from that...

[jono035]

Corbin (http://www.corbins.com) makes the kit that the 'Rabbit Guy' was using

http://www.corbins.com/prrfjm.htm

Says that they provide dies for making bullets from .22LR casings and range-recovered lead or soft-lead wheel weights.

Core Mould (http://www.corbins.com/images/cm-4gr.jpg)
Core Seat Die (http://www.corbins.com/images/cs-1-rs.jpg)
Point Form Die (http://www.corbins.com/images/pf-1-rs.jpg)

Rimfire Jacket Maker (http://www.corbins.com/rfjm.htm)

Says that you can make jackets for 6mm, .223, .224 with the 2 different versions of this kit or .204, .172, .142 with extra additional dies and steps in the process...

Thanks for that link MDU, that is a damn cool piece of gear!

[Mr Merde]

I have been thinking about this gear for quite a while now.

The beauty of swagging is that the lead is not hot. Very consistant results, no air pockets in the bullet.. the list goes on.

No burn danger, very repeatable, bulltet design within calibres ios a the change of a top die.

All that has been stopping me is the price.

[jono035]

Chris:

So for swaging you wouldn't be casting blanks, just using trimmed pieces of stock or something? What do you use for lead stock currently?

I've seen a couple of kits for swaging the heads of .22LR bullets for accuracy purposes, but given that you're only controlling 1 of many different variables, getting better quality .22LR ammo is probably a better step.

[Mr Merde]

He is swagging with Corbon swagging dies in an RCBS press by the looks of it

The reloading kit is

a Dillon press, 1050 (?) by the looks of it

A mate of mine has two of these presses and a 550 set up in his worksop

The 1050 is capable of loading about 1000 rounds an hour and can be automated.

MDU, doesnt swaging look cool.

You can play around with bullet weights, different bases, different tips etc, you can even get tools to put the cannalure on the bullet.

See why I talk about it so much

Chris

[Mr Merde]

Chris:

So for swaging you wouldn't be casting blanks, just using trimmed pieces of stock or something? What do you use for lead stock currently?

I've seen a couple of kits for swaging the heads of .22LR bullets for accuracy purposes, but given that you're only controlling 1 of many different variables, getting better quality .22LR ammo is probably a better step.

You use a lead wire that you can by from Corbins or buy the tool to make it yourself.

You just cut off a oiece to the required length, drop it in the press and go for it.

At the moment I am using any scrap lead I can find.

Scrap metal merchant down the road from work has just put 50 kg of lead sheet aside for me.

Mate in Thames buys his lead by the tonne.

Casting for the 45-70 I only get 30 bullets to the kg as opposed to the .44 where I get about 100 or the M1 where I get about 200.

The really good thing about swagging is its consistancy, safety and repeatability.

Too many variables with hot lead. Not being te same temperature can mean a 5 gn difference in bullet weight. Hot lead going into a mould can trap air pockets inside the bullet. The list goes on.

[ManDownUnder]

He is swagging with Corbon swagging dies in an RCBS press by the looks of it

so... backpeddling a little... I could fit dies into my Lee reloading press?

edit - 10mins homework... it seems not. The RCBS press is a lot sturdier than the Lee press....

[Mr Merde]

so... backpeddling a little... I could fit dies into my Lee reloading press?

What Lee press do you have?

A good strong "O" press is best as the swaging process geneates one hell of a lot of pressure.

From memory so dont take tis as gospel but it is somewhere around the 100,000 psi level

I've just read that article jono035 posted from the Shooting times. It gives s a really good overview of making .224 calibre bullets.

Estimate that you would need to make aboutr 5000 bullets to recover your initial costs.

Read it and enjoy.

I told you that reloading was addictive. Once you start you will always be hooked. You may go at it in fits and startsa but it is always there nagging at your mind.

Chris

[Mr Merde]

MDU,

Here is what I was trying to tell you about neck resizing cases but sort of stumbled a bit.

"Anyone who has ever used neck size only dies knows that at some point after repeated firings the cartridges become difficult to chamber. They will feed fine but closing the bolt becomes difficult and requires some pressure. The solution is to run them through a full-length die and push the shoulder back a little."

Hence you will need at some time a fl set of dies for that lovely 22-250 of yours

Chris

[ManDownUnder]

"Anyone who has ever used neck size only dies knows that at some point after repeated firings the cartridges become difficult to chamber. They will feed fine but closing the bolt becomes difficult and requires some pressure. The solution is to run them through a full-length die and push the shoulder back a little."


Worth knowing - cheers. And then I'll need someone to set off another 60 or so rounds to fire form them all again (and give me the excuse to reload 'em... :))

[Mr Merde]

Worth knowing - cheers. And then I'll need someone to set off another 60 or so rounds to fire form them all again (and give me the excuse to reload 'em... :))

Surely the best route would be to load a couple of hundred rounds, fireform them, batch them, and then use these cases for your reloading. When a batch starts to need a full lenght resize you still have cases available to shoot.

Involves you spending more money on cases and more time in the reloading room.

[ManDownUnder]

Involves you spending more money on cases and more time in the reloading room.

Yup!... and I don't see any problems with that... at all...

[Mr Merde]

Yup!... and I don't see any problems with that... at all...


Best to start that young lad of yours on some serious reloading training.

I was most impressed with his knowlege of shotshell reloading

For all you others

MDU's 9 year old son walked me through the procedure of reloading a shotgun shell and I couldnt find fault with it at all.

At this rate he is going to be one hell of a shooter\reloader before he is even legally allowed to own a firearm.

[Wolf]

For all you others

MDU's 9 year old son walked me through the procedure of reloading a shotgun shell and I couldnt find fault with it at all.

At this rate he is going to be one hell of a shooter\reloader before he is even legally allowed to own a firearm.
Tears. In. My. Eyes.

That kid of yours is a keeper, MDU, don't lose him, eh.

[KREWZR]

Updated today

Bombs away !

http://frommycolddeadhand.blogspot.com/

[Swoop]

Best to start that young lad of yours on some serious reloading training.

I was most impressed with his knowlege of shotshell reloading

For all you others

MDU's 9 year old son walked me through the procedure of reloading a shotgun shell and I couldnt find fault with it at all.

At this rate he is going to be one hell of a shooter\reloader before he is even legally allowed to own a firearm.
Wonderful!

A club member's son was doing the reloading of the club .38Spl ammo some years back. He was very good, and managed to earn a bit of pocket money out of it too.

[ManDownUnder]

Tears. In. My. Eyes.

That kid of yours is a keeper, MDU, don't lose him, eh.


Wonderful!

"Proud Daddy" don't begin to cut it...

[ManDownUnder]

Best to start that young lad of yours on some serious reloading training.

I just showed this to the little man in question... he thought it was great - till he Spotted Mr Merde's by line... "Contraray old bastard"... he took great delight in reading them out loud a few times and giggling.

I expect to hear those words again tonight... best I warm mum...

:chase:

[jono035]

I just showed this to the little man in question... he thought it was great - till he Spotted Mr Merde's by line... "Contraray old bastard"... he took great delight in reading them out loud a few times and giggling.

I expect to hear those words again tonight... best I warm mum...

:chase:

I was talking to someone else at the gun range who got his kid to sort brass and pull the handle on his progressive press once he had it set up...

Once I get my S&W 686 then I need to find a kid that I can borrow to put together a few thousand rounds of .357 magnum for me :D

[Mr Merde]

Sorry about the by line MDU

Hope you explained that us old people dont have all our marbles.

Hope mum understands.

I really hope that all this praise is boosting the confidence of that lad of yours. He deserves it all. I nwas honestly impressed when he was explaining to Indy how a shotgun round was made and what each stage of the press did.

You have to start him on metalic cartridge loading. get him familiar with making his own rounds and how they shoot. We couild have a worthy member of the next generation of shooters.

Chris

[jono035]

Hope you explained that us old people dont have all our marbles.

Used them as muzzle-loader ammo possibly?

[ManDownUnder]

Sorry about the by line MDU
No worries at all - it's all part of growing up as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather he knew all the words and how to use 'em in context (which you have done of course), and know the effects they're going to have on others rather than say NO - BAD WORD - NEVER SAY IT AGAIN.

Let's face it - that's simply not going to happen huh? It's all good... and if Mum has a problem when he uses it appropriately... then I believe it's simply that - Mum's problem. Of course if he uses it out of context then he expect the reactions I warned him about.

Remember Uncle Rhemus? Nigger this and Nigger that? Great book and he read it with delight... knows the N word = Nigger and it's going to appear and when people use it in one way it's designed to be hurtfuil and offensive, another way is all buddy buddy between black people, and historically it has a third context.

Sorry - lecture over - you get the idea.


I really hope that all this praise is boosting the confidence of that lad of yours. He deserves it all. I nwas honestly impressed when he was explaining to Indy how a shotgun round was made and what each stage of the press did.

You have to start him on metalic cartridge loading. get him familiar with making his own rounds and how they shoot. We couild have a worthy member of the next generation of shooters.

Chris

Thanks - and yes. He's got the gift of good co-ordination from his Mum (who will outshoot me in a heartbeat) and I'm lining up a trip to the Taihape area to go goat shooting in the spring. Might see if I can borrow a single shot .223 or similar for him with that.

The 22-250's a bit loud for him and phsycially too big so the eye relief simply doesn't work. I found someone willing to swap that 3.5-10x50 scope for a 6-20x40 Grand Slam too. I'm taking a look at it on Monday. Not too happy about the reduced light gathering but it should be ok and from what I can see I'm trading up in value so that's a good start...

[Wolf]

Used them as muzzle-loader ammo possibly?
They fragment nicely and take out the other competitors' targets, too...

[Mr Merde]

Help me I'm on my own here

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=103015

[jono035]

Help me I'm on my own here

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=103015

Yeah, ok, wow.

Did I just get trolled or is that guy for real?

[ManDownUnder]

Yeah, ok, wow.

Did I just get trolled or is that guy for real?

Trolled I think - which I pointed out by changing a few words and throwing it back at him. If he has valid points (and Noel nearly always does)... they'll come out.

[junkmanjoe]

hi whats best to do with a old bolt action 22.it can carry amo under the barrel,and reloads every action. well it used to.
it only fires every 1 shot out of 3, and mostly jams up.fireing pin a bit buggered.
is free to a good home, im not going to sell on tardme, pm me if you interested
its quite old, handed down through the familys. has a hand carved rabbit on the stock.
or should i just hand it in to the cops.
ive moved to town and have no need for it any more.

thanks for your time.

[jono035]

hi whats best to do with a old bolt action 22.it can carry amo under the barrel,and reloads every action. well it used to.
it only fires every 1 shot out of 3, and mostly jams up.fireing pin a bit buggered.
is free to a good home, im not going to sell on tardme, pm me if you interested
its quite old, handed down through the familys. has a hand carved rabbit on the stock.
or should i just hand it in to the cops.
ive moved to town and have no need for it any more.

thanks for your time.

I don't have space for another rifle but I'm sure you can find a caring home for it with someone on here, would be a shame to just turn over if it has a bit of history behind it.

Just make sure you see their gun license or get one of the police permits! :D

[junkmanjoe]

yea it was give to me as a young boy from my late dad. from his dad and so on.
my brother had a 22CAL M16 replica, pluged and hanging on his wall, stolen...
its time to move it on, ive a young family, its just not a toy...

[jono035]

yea it was give to me as a young boy from my late dad. from his dad and so on.
my brother had a 22CAL M16 replica, pluged and hanging on his wall, stolen...
its time to move it on, ive a young family, its just not a toy...

I'm sorry that you feel that way. Personally I think learning to respect and safely use firearms at a young age was a big thing for me. Taught me a lot of responsibility early on and I like to think that a lot of those lessons have stuck with me right through.

[junkmanjoe]

its was a different story when i was a young boy.
as we lived on the farm. went rabbit hunting nearly every day.
i went to bording school and was a member of the small ball rifle club in town.

my son has told me he has no interest in it.

[jono035]

its was a different story when i was a young boy.
as we lived on the farm. went rabbit hunting nearly every day.
i went to bording school and was a member of the small ball rifle club in town.

my son has told me he has no interest in it.

Fair call then, I guess the no-interest part was never a problem. I've always had a genetically-instilled hatred of possums, so anything to kill them is a natural interest!

[Indiana_Jones]

Got my Mosin's out at the moment.

I love them so much lol

Some say they are ugly.

But what do they know!


<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=98862&d=1214209852">

<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106075&d=1222076365">

7.62x54R!!!!!!

-Indy

[ManDownUnder]

is free to a good home, im not going to sell on tardme, pm me if you interested


PM sent.....

[ManDownUnder]

Help me I'm on my own here

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=103015


see http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1129300613. I found a reasonably well thought out and worded response to what I think is an extremely biased report.

I'm using Mr Merde's complaint and this one and the bases for a complaint personally and encourage others to do so too.

[Mr Merde]

I have to thank you all for responding to the "call".

I felt like I was drowning. I seemed tpo be the only one incensed by this programme enoiugh to lay a complaint.

I have had two responses now. TVNZ and BSA, both acknowledging my complaint. TVNZ now has 20 days to make a response.

For too long we have suffered in silence. We, as responsible firearms owners, have always kept a low profile. We have kept our sport quiet like some dirty little family secret. I'm proud to enjoy the shooting sports. I'll tell anyone and I always invite them to give it a go. I have no problem with anyone who tries something and then decides its not for them. Thats called an informed decision and woorthy of respect.

I started another thread. Part Troll and very tongue in cheek. This threead likened mbike ownership to the restrictions on firearms. A few people realised iut was a troll but still responded. I basically did this to get some sort of debate going and also to raise peoples awareness of whatr we actually have to go through in obeying the law with regards to our particular sport.

I've had a few PM's and rep points but all in all I feel it served its purpose.

Thanks again.

Chris


PS MDU, trying to think of a new byline, something along the lines of "soft and sensitive" I like to make people smile.

Malicious little Gnome. I was called that earlier this week. Sounds good. Changing nowb

[jono035]

I have to thank you all for responding to the "call".

I felt like I was drowning. I seemed tpo be the only one incensed by this programme enoiugh to lay a complaint.

I have had two responses now. TVNZ and BSA, both acknowledging my complaint. TVNZ now has 20 days to make a response.

For too long we have suffered in silence. We, as responsible firearms owners, have always kept a low profile. We have kept our sport quiet like some dirty little family secret. I'm proud to enjoy the shooting sports. I'll tell anyone and I always invite them to give it a go. I have no problem with anyone who tries something and then decides its not for them. Thats called an informed decision and woorthy of respect.

I started another thread. Part Troll and very tongue in cheek. This threead likened mbike ownership to the restrictions on firearms. A few people realised iut was a troll but still responded. I basically did this to get some sort of debate going and also to raise peoples awareness of whatr we actually have to go through in obeying the law with regards to our particular sport.

I've had a few PM's and rep points but all in all I feel it served its purpose.

Thanks again.

Chris


PS MDU, trying to think of a new byline, something along the lines of "soft and sensitive" I like to make people smile.

Malicious little Gnome. I was called that earlier this week. Sounds good. Changing nowb

You were called a malicious little gnome?? holy hell...

My problem in that case is that I don't watch TV at all, so I'm completely oblivious to anything of that nature that is shown. I'm always up for a good argument though, but I do get annoyed when people I'm arguing with start using some of the tactics that were used in that thread. False comparisons, straw man arguments and circular logic.

[Delerium]

I have to thank you all for responding to the "call".

I felt like I was drowning. I seemed tpo be the only one incensed by this programme enoiugh to lay a complaint.

I have had two responses now. TVNZ and BSA, both acknowledging my complaint. TVNZ now has 20 days to make a response.

For too long we have suffered in silence. We, as responsible firearms owners, have always kept a low profile. We have kept our sport quiet like some dirty little family secret. I'm proud to enjoy the shooting sports. I'll tell anyone and I always invite them to give it a go. I have no problem with anyone who tries something and then decides its not for them. Thats called an informed decision and woorthy of respect.

I started another thread. Part Troll and very tongue in cheek. This threead likened mbike ownership to the restrictions on firearms. A few people realised iut was a troll but still responded. I basically did this to get some sort of debate going and also to raise peoples awareness of whatr we actually have to go through in obeying the law with regards to our particular sport.

I've had a few PM's and rep points but all in all I feel it served its purpose.

Thanks again.

Chris


PS MDU, trying to think of a new byline, something along the lines of "soft and sensitive" I like to make people smile.

Malicious little Gnome. I was called that earlier this week. Sounds good. Changing nowb

Thats just it, people dont realise how draconian the restrictions they think are a good idea untill it is placed on something THEY value.. then it starts to dawn on them.

[wbks]

Hey guys, I'm going to go into the police station tomorrow and apply for my license. On Police.govt.nz it says you will need to pass a multi-choice test and attend a lecture. Does that mean I can expect to have to do this test the day I go in there, or is that at a later date? Just asking because I won't have a lot of time to read the arms code I just printed off before then.

[Indiana_Jones]

Hey guys, I'm going to go into the police station tomorrow and apply for my license. On Police.govt.nz it says you will need to pass a multi-choice test and attend a lecture. Does that mean I can expect to have to do this test the day I go in there, or is that at a later date? Just asking because I won't have a lot of time to read the arms code I just printed off before then.

When you go into the cop-shop to apply for your licence all you need is your references contact details, Application fee and your passport style photos

Noramlly they interview you then and there and do your background check etc

Then they'll inspect your storage and interview your refences in person.

You'll then attend a safety course (just about 2 hours), run over the basics, sit a test, common sense stuff really.

Pass the test, they'll let the cops know and providing your refences etc all check out you'll be away laughing

Hope this helps, feel free to ask anything else

-Indy

[jono035]

Hey guys, I'm going to go into the police station tomorrow and apply for my license. On Police.govt.nz it says you will need to pass a multi-choice test and attend a lecture. Does that mean I can expect to have to do this test the day I go in there, or is that at a later date? Just asking because I won't have a lot of time to read the arms code I just printed off before then.

Nope sorry bud. The process is as follows:

Get form from cops.
Pay license cost at post office.
Give form back to cops.
Wait.
Cops contact you and tell you when the next test is. It will be in the form of a 1-hour (ish) talk with basic demonstrations of gun safety and a bit of discussion, followed by an easy multi-choice test. Reading the arms code a couple of times through makes this totally trivial.
Wait.
(Good time to make sure your storage is up to snuff)
Wait.
Cops contact you and organise an interview with you and your references. They prefer references that they can hit at the same time, preferably non-related people who are living with you. I used my girlfriend and flatmate. They will also check out your storage setup.
Wait.
License arrives in the mail.

Edit: Also, when you're in the cop shop, grab a proper copy of the Arms Code and keep it around. I might start carrying one in the backpack I use for carting my ammo/spotlights/spare mags/cleaning stuff etc. in. I do keep one in the drawer of my desk for referring to.

[jono035]

When you...

3 minutes too late *mutter*

Edit: Wait a sec, did they interview you before the firearms test thingame? I can't actually remember what order mine happened in to be honest...

[jono035]

Was just reading a news article from this time last year. Apparently firearms license applications were skyrocketing, violent crime involving firearms was holding steady at around 650 incidents recorded per year and firearms involvement in crimes had slipped from 1.7% to 1.3%...

Wait a sec, what the hell did I just spend the entire weekend arguing about?! :pinch:

[wbks]

Glad I know now, but I just realised that I've got a defensive driving course and my full license test at the end of the month so I might be a bit stuck for money depending on the cost of the license. How much is it?

[Indiana_Jones]

Glad I know now, but I just realised that I've got a defensive driving course and my full license test at the end of the month so I might be a bit stuck for money depending on the cost of the license. How much is it?

Just under $125

-Indy

[jono035]

Glad I know now, but I just realised that I've got a defensive driving course and my full license test at the end of the month so I might be a bit stuck for money depending on the cost of the license. How much is it?

A hundred and something. Gotta pay before you can submit the license. I'd say get the license started, it isn't a quick process all up and the sooner you get it submitted, the less likely you are to miss out on one of the testing evenings like I did (6 weeks wait straight off the bat)

Edit: And Indy beats me to it again...

[wbks]

I'll be spending just under half a K on qualifications in one month! What about a gun cabinet? Which I'm assuming is the only security you need for A-Cat? I should probably get one before I even apply incase they end up getting around to checking my security before I have one

[jono035]

I'll be spending just under half a K on qualifications in one month! What about a gun cabinet? Which I'm assuming is the only security you need for A-Cat? I should probably get one before I even apply incase they end up getting around to checking my security before I have one

You can use a locked cupboard if you have one available, probably needs to be reasonably sturdy though. I have seen ones made out of nailed/glued together chipboard with a hasp and padlock on the front that were apparently ok.

Failing that, the one that I bought was from gun-city I think, $40. Nothing more than a plate that gets screwed to the wall with a few screw holes in, a metal hoop for the barrels to go through and a pin to go through the trigger guards. Finish it off with a padlock through the end of the pin and that's the setup.

4 woodscrews into the wall (making sure to hit something with a bit of strength) and you're set.

Edit: And $500 per month on qualifications... That's what it's costing me to do my masters in course fees alone, never mind still having to live/eat/ride/shoot :D No way around it though unfortunately, you've gotta pay it sooner or later if you want the license :)

http://www.guncity.co.nz/racks-xidg11754.html I have the 4 gun one of these. Seems to work well, I just wrapped something soft over the bottom of the hoop to stop it scuffing up my barrels though.

[wbks]

Might weld something up, then. If glued up boxes are fine, a welded box long enough for most rifles, with one padlocked opening end should be fine! I'll probably add some bolt's to bolt it into the wall. Might as well make sure no one carries it off!

[jono035]

Might weld something up, then. If glued up boxes are fine, a welded box long enough for most rifles, with one padlocked opening end should be fine! I'll probably add some bolt's to bolt it into the wall. Might as well make sure no one carries it off!

It is equally important that they can't take it away as it is that they can't get into it :P A few woodscrews into the wall are apparently sufficient though (going by how mine is installed).

Maybe think about making up one of those racks like guncity has rather than welding up an entire box?

[wbks]

Yea, I think that might be better but I made that post before I saw you had edited your post with the guncity link. I probably can't find any long steel plating lying around so I might just save myself the trouble and buy one soon for $50

[jono035]

Yea, I think that might be better but I made that post before I saw you had edited your post with the guncity link. I probably can't find any long steel plating lying around so I might just save myself the trouble and buy one soon for $50

Yeah, probably cost half that to just get the stock <_<

[Brett]

I have a few days to spare at the moment and a .270 that wants to get out a bit. Anyone here have access to a farm or such with fellow deer on it? I normally have access to a place on the Kaipara but it is through a mate of mine who knows the owner and is not dubai set, so cant really get there. I am itching to get out for a bit of a hunt. Not too interested in many of the public hunting areas as I dont fancy someone who shoots a movement or colour or such popping a round into my head.

[Brett]

ah, ok, but you have to use the 3030 first, and standing.

.375 nitro is my biggest shot yet, and that was solid, but not devastating. the .270 I have at the moment has quite a violent recoil too.

[jono035]

.375 nitro is my biggest shot yet, and that was solid, but not devastating. the .270 I have at the moment has quite a violent recoil too.

With a lot of those un-necked cartridges the rifles can be quite heavy. It isn't just the power of the round, it's also the weight of the rifle...

No idea on the fallow deer sorry...

[Swoop]

It is equally important that they can't take it away as it is that they can't get into it
Quite so. Some years back there were a few safes being chainsawed out of the house, so the crim's could work on them at their leisure (in private).
The arms officer at the time, suggested hammering in some gang-nail plates underneath the area where a chainsaw blade would be cutting. A splendid idea, I thought!

[Drunken Monkey]

It is equally important that they can't take it away as it is that they can't get into it :P A few woodscrews into the wall are apparently sufficient though (going by how mine is installed).

Maybe think about making up one of those racks like guncity has rather than welding up an entire box?

You only need a lockable safe for other categories. As mentioned above, a rack is fine for A cat, although a rack inside a sturdy cabinet will also keep the dust off your rifle(s).

You don't have to go overboard. Although you'd be there all afternoon with a hacksaw trying to cut it, the racks can actually be quite easily defeated with a cold chisel and hammer (just knock the ace lock off). They're not expecting fort knox and know like anything, really determined criminals will get what they're after. It just needs to be enough to stop a casual burglar. Also some common sense applies, e.g. don't screw the rack to a wall right next to where you keep your concrete cutting circular saw.

[Mr Merde]

You only need a lockable safe for other categories. As mentioned above, a rack is fine for A cat, although a rack inside a sturdy cabinet will also keep the dust off your rifle(s).

You don't have to go overboard. Although you'd be there all afternoon with a hacksaw trying to cut it, the racks can actually be quite easily defeated with a cold chisel and hammer (just knock the ace lock off). They're not expecting fort knox and know like anything, really determined criminals will get what they're after. It just needs to be enough to stop a casual burglar. Also some common sense applies, e.g. don't screw the rack to a wall right next to where you keep your concrete cutting circular saw.

And keep your ammo, magazines, bolts etc seperate from the firearms.

Just makes it that little more safe and they do look more favourably on someone who has thought this far ahead.

Whats the use in stealing a bolt action rifle without the bolt?

[Indiana_Jones]

I have a cabinet made out of MDF, I got my old man to make it.

Use 2 padlocks to lock it. Screwed to the wall.

It doesn't have to be over the top, just enough to stop an opportunist thief

-Indy

[The Pastor]

i have a desk which my rifles lay on top of.