The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[sugilite]

Trump and co. have done more in 3 years than Obumma did in 8 without starting a new war. Got anything new to show us.
Like what, what has he got done? What metrics are you using? Not that Dr Derp video guy - that's just an opinion piece bro ;)

[Bonez]

Like what, what has he got done? What metrics are you using? Not that Dr Derp video guy - that's just an opinion piece bro ;)Yanks use imperial Doc.

[sugilite]

Yanks use imperial Doc.
Kinda cute, but ultimately the traditional "I got nuthin" response we have come to expect from Trump supporters when it comes to backing up their wild unsubstantiated claims.

[Bonez]

C'mon Doc. Asking a question with stipulations is uncool. Van Jones can give you an example and if you bother to do a quick search you will find plenty.

Putting a video no of a late night comedian on to back your statements up is funny as fuck.

[Bonez]

Bidens on a roll https://www.turleytalks.com/videos/youre-full-of-shit-biden-loses-it-on-campaign-trail?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=84545336&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8TIP4wbGPBNnzZwPvAN3NHS4K8t__qOzZ5j9_EsZjuXPS4JXYm HUnso7xPKFVwtp03QTJBHAV9eqNUlyLK83fyYGb-yg&_hsmi=84545336

[sugilite]

C'mon Doc. Asking a question with stipulations is uncool. Van Jones can give you an example and if you bother to do a quick search you will find plenty.

Putting a video no of a late night comedian on to back your statements up is funny as fuck.
Only uncool when people ask them of you eh gotnuthin? You got all demanding and shit with me "Answer the Question!" when it came to Italian road fatalities. (which I provided btw)
The only Trump supporter that actually tries is Demonlord, and he does a pretty good job. Not like you and arestinger that just spout Trump talking points with no substance whatsoever.
But it's OK, like attracts like. With Trump, nearly everything that comes out of his mouth is an outright lie - so if course it will be the same with his wee little trumpkins.
The comedian showed actual Trump clips, and it is apt that he is covering Trump, because Trump is just one big (bad) joke.

[oldrider]

Cui Bono: One Should Ask “Who Benefits?” and take it from there - Who has benefited the most from the (Trump?) administration and beyond? - Hint, it's not the lower 98% of the pyramid of power. :rolleyes:

[TheDemonLord]

The only Trump supporter that actually tries is Demonlord, and he does a pretty good job.

Awwww Shucks.

[pritch]

Cui Bono: One Should Ask “Who Benefits?” and take it from there - Who has benefited the most from the (Trump?) administration and beyond? - Hint, it's not the lower 98% of the pyramid of power. :rolleyes:

The Republicans know that many of their supporters are a bit simple, so they keep the messages simple to suit.
Great economy? We need a tax cut.
Bad economy? We need a tax cut.
Pandemic threatens? We need a tax cut.

[oldrider]

The Republicans know that many of their supporters are a bit simple, so they keep the messages simple to suit.
Great economy? We need a tax cut.
Bad economy? We need a tax cut.
Pandemic threatens? We need a tax cut.

That's just theatrics for the gullible - scratching in the undergrowth is for "turkeys" - raise your sights up and soar with the eagles and focus on their world and why? - it's the 1% of the 1% that organise world events.

By the time the turkeys get a sniff of anything it's either too late or it didn't happen. - :done: - and when all else fails there is always ... Sigh?

[pritch]

That's just theatrics for the gullible - scratching in the undergrowth is for "turkeys" - raise your sights up and soar with the eagles and focus on their world and why? - it's the 1% of the 1% that organise world events.


The 1% that organises the Republicans is called Koch, the Mercers like to dabble too and there will be others. The Koch brothers' name is Jewish in origin but they are apparently Catholic.

[oldrider]

The 1% that organises the Republicans is called Koch, the Mercers like to dabble too and there will be others. The Koch brothers' name is Jewish in origin but they are apparently Catholic.

Catholic? simply means universal. :msn-wink:

[sugilite]

Old white men duking it out lol Actually surprised to see Biden has some spunk, he is still to old though - so is Bernie.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRgaQzOiBVU

[oldrider]

The adage:- "Laugh and the world laughs with (read "at" in this case?) you" - springs to mind! - (The virus doesn't realise the risk "it" has taken being released in this sick fucking world!) - :doctor:

[Bonez]

Old white men duking it out lol Actually surprised to see Biden has some spunk, he is still to old though - so is Bernie.

He doesn't. It's just that the Dem party heads prefer Biden over Maxis Bernie.

[oldrider]

He doesn't. It's just that the Dem party heads prefer Biden over Maxis Bernie.

Currently three choices for Communism? - Way to go America. - :bye:

[TheDemonLord]

Old white men duking it out lol Actually surprised to see Biden has some spunk, he is still to old though - so is Bernie.

It did make me smile when Biden told the guy to get fucked.

The problem is after the initial exchange, he got confused and started to sound like the incoherent old man who is always ranting at the local Pub.

Still - nice to know he's coming for your AR-14s, all the AR-15 users can breath a sigh of relief....

[sugilite]

He doesn't. It's just that the Dem party heads prefer Biden over Maxis Bernie.
Your saying Bernie wears maxis panty shields? :lol:


It did make me smile when Biden told the guy to get fucked.

The problem is after the initial exchange, he got confused and started to sound like the incoherent old man who is always ranting at the local Pub.

Still - nice to know he's coming for your AR-14s, all the AR-15 users can breath a sigh of relief....

Yeah, I laughed at both those things too, good on him for being more relatable and showing a bit of spunk though.

[Bonez]

Your saying Bernie wears maxis panty shields? :lol:



Yeah, I laughed at both those things too, good on him for being more relatable and showing a bit of spunk though.If Trump said that you'd call him an arrogant prick.


Biden uses Depends to reduse the dribbling.

[oldrider]

If Trump said that you'd call him an arrogant prick.


Biden uses Depends to reduse the dribbling.

He should be wearing them on his head then? :msn-wink:

[Banditbandit]

That's just theatrics for the gullible


Yeah - beer and circuses ..

Now Trump has given then free Corona ... relected for sure ..

[TheDemonLord]

Yeah, I laughed at both those things too, good on him for being more relatable and showing a bit of spunk though.

If he'd actually stayed coherent and had a discussion with the worker and talked through the issues that Biden thinks needs to be addressed vs what concerns the Blue Collar worker has, it could have been a Major Win for him.

I think a lot of people (from all sides - myself included) were impressed at him telling someone they were full of Shit - as you said, a bit of Spunk and a willingness to engage with someone in a blunt and frank manner, he needed to back that up though and I think he failed.

[Viking01]

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/role-of-a-wall-street-law-firm-in-the-joe-biden-resurgence-raises-alarms-for-progressives/

[Bonez]

Clown News Network at it sgain https://www.turleytalks.com/videos/jim-acosta-gets-roasted-as-cnns-ratings-continue-to-plummet?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=84757673&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-9en4at4hMjIDcyZ8mM6VCXWTMkuegMXjau_bZwUS8ZUdN7-F7Y_tFzjplNQQQqrXrtOBEI-yccMWlPhYEQu4SL6FiCzw&_hsmi=84757673

[pritch]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/10/us/politics/microsoft-botnets-malware.html?smid=tw-nytpolitics&smtyp=cur

[sugilite]

He seems to be S l o w l y catching on


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AusHTBZLQXg

[Bonez]

Jim Acosta has a Bachelor degree and an honour in Political science Bonedead. What University did you go to ?Well hne certainly hasn't desplayed that intelligents in at least the last 5 years bubby. He's made a dick of himself probably more than what Trump has. As have LemonHead and Fredo. Now Ritchard Madcow is on another level altogother Bet it does meth on a regular basis.

[Bonez]

Your reply tells me straight away that, we have a problem Houston! 'intellegents' isn't a word . I'll leave at that Folks. We have a Trump supporter his name is Bonez. He might be on Meth too. Read what he said. Love the 'Bet it does meth on a regular basis' Donald loves you Braindead, sorry Bonez. And, what does hne mean ? Go to bed.You poor poor deluded snowflake. Want a red pill? I have some spare.

[F5 Dave]

Um, no. He just owned your arse and made you look simple. Your response wasn't able to deflect that.

[Bonez]

Um, no. He just owned your arse and made you look simple. Your response wasn't able to deflect that.Incorrect my arse is still attached when I just had a poo in the loo. You lefty loony types are entertaining as hell. Do keep it up.

[F5 Dave]

Again wrong, no where near a lefty.

[Bonez]

Again wrong, no where near a lefty.Well we have a special pink pill for you. Oh and note Stylos obvious grammatical errors.:lol: I've noticed things like that seem to trouble you and a few others here.

[sugilite]

Well we have a special pink pill for you. Oh and note Stylos obvious grammatical errors.:lol: I've noticed things like that seem to trouble you and a few others here.

Well no, because you are usually dishing out insults on peoples intelligence while spelling like a drunken 7 year old - as entertaining as that is for us. So do keep it up :yawn:
Another tip, just because someone thinks Trump is a total dick, does not mean they are automatically left wing.

You seem to like handing out pills to people you incorrectly diagnose, so Dr Gotnuthin - seems a apt title to go with those low rent opinion videos that you post from "Dr" Turdley. I watched the last one you put up from start to finish. It took him 12+ minutes to say CNN ratings are down and the rest was shameless advertising for his sponsors and pandering to the far right gullible - the ones that register null and void when it comes to critical thinking :laugh:

[Bonez]

Well no, because you are usually dishing out insults on peoples intelligence while spelling like a drunken 7 year old - as entertaining as that is for us.h:I've only insulted those who have insulted me first Doc so pull your head in will ya.:tugger:

[TheDemonLord]

Another tip, just because someone thinks Trump is a total dick, does not mean they are automatically left wing.

To be fair, the 2 are very tightly correlated...

Just a thought.

Another one are these:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1239650086491230209

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1239567267312152576

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1238603402457812992

Without making comment on what action he has or has not taken and when it should or should not have been taken.
Without making comment on the stylistic choices of delivery or the repetitiveness of the oratory.

You do have to admit that as a Hype-man for the United States, he's doing a great job. And as a serious point, maybe that is what is needed, someone who by their sheer undiminished positivity (for their country) inspires others to achieve things that they otherwise couldn't.

[sugilite]

I've only insulted those who have insulted me first Doc so pull your head in will ya.:tugger:
You poor sensitive snowflake gotnuthin, cannot take what you dish out eh :baby:

[sugilite]

To be fair, the 2 are very tightly correlated...

Just a thought.

Another one are these:

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1239650086491230209

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1239567267312152576

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1238603402457812992

Without making comment on what action he has or has not taken and when it should or should not have been taken.
Without making comment on the stylistic choices of delivery or the repetitiveness of the oratory.

You do have to admit that as a Hype-man for the United States, he's doing a great job. And as a serious point, maybe that is what is needed, someone who by their sheer undiminished positivity (for their country) inspires others to achieve things that they otherwise couldn't.

I disagree, plenty of Republicans think Trump is a dick.
You can stick to your guns on him doing a great job, I will stick to mine that he is not.
Sure there is a lot of mud being thrown at him that is just plain stupid. For instance him calling the virus a Chinese with associated reaction is ridiculous, as it did originate in China.
His initial handling of the virus and aspects to this day are simply disgraceful though.
In response. I will be stockpiling - popcorn! For if the scenario where the dems win the senate and Trump wins the presidency occurs :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

I disagree, plenty of Republicans think Trump is a dick.

There are some, for sure, but usually on closer inspection, there are some interesting facets to said republicans.


You can stick to your guns on him doing a great job, I will stick to mine that he is not.
Sure there is a lot of mud being thrown at him that is just plain stupid. For instance him calling the virus a Chinese with associated reaction is ridiculous, as it did originate in China.

Probably the single most accurate statement - the mud flinging that is (at best) petty point scoring is really what galvanizes people like me in my support.

I'm all for criticising politicians (even those I like) when they do something stupid, and praising politicians (and especially those I don't like) when they do something good.

It's the one-way traffic that's an issue.


His initial handling of the virus and aspects to this day are simply disgraceful though.

Maybe, although once he reached the point of taking action, he did take some pretty decisive action.

[Bonez]

You poor sensitive snowflake gotnuthin, cannot take what you dish out eh :baby:I am handling it very well Doc:bleh:

[Bonez]

There are some, for sure, but usually on closer inspection, there are some interesting facets to said republicans.



Probably the single most accurate statement - the mud flinging that is (at best) petty point scoring is really what galvanizes people like me in my support.

I'm all for criticising politicians (even those I like) when they do something stupid, and praising politicians (and especially those I don't like) when they do something good.

It's the one-way traffic that's an issue.



Maybe, although once he reached the point of taking action, he did take some pretty decisive action.Exactly. ?Those with blinders on need a poke in the eye.

[Viking01]

Maybe, although once he reached the point of taking action, he did take some pretty decisive action.

There would be those who argue "why so late", given that the US had the benefit of seeing the Chinese situation unfold before their eyes.

And they'd likely argue whether the action taken was decisive. In that it implies that there is some "master plan" underpinning the actions. Encompassing both internal and external action.

Yes, he's closed the borders, and the Fed has created $1.5 trillion in new money. But the GOP has been fighting within itself as to just whom should be the recipient of the newly created largesse (before the House of Reps then disappeared off on indefinite break):

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/coronavirus-bill-stalls-gop-lawmakers-demand-corrections-transparency

Perhaps some sign of hope for the average US citizen today, with the prospects of direct payments:

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/488011-trump-administration-eyes-checks-to-americans-amid-coronavirus-outbreak

And while the Fed has created 1.5 trillion, it's not at all clear how that money will actually make its way down to businesses and citizens alike. Especially when the usual "pigs at the trough" appear to have lost their appetite:

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/the-fed-tried-to-give-away-1-trillion-to-wall-street-today-and-failed-suggesting-specific-banks-are-in-trouble/

Perhaps the major US banks have a separate problem of their own which is taking most of their attention:

https://wolfstreet.com/2020/03/15/panicked-fed-slashes-rates-to-near-0-throws-700-billion-qe-on-top-after-1-5-trillion-shock-and-awe-repos-fizzled-stock-futures-plunge-5-hit-limit-down/

And it must be serious when bank share buybacks are suspended:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/antoinegara/2020/03/15/americas-biggest-banks-suspend-buybacks-in-effort-to-support-economy-over-their-own-stock-prices/#45efdc2a1189

[Edit]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/17/white-house-senate-republicans-coronavirus-aid-133732

[TheDemonLord]

There would be those who argue "why so late", given that the US had the benefit of seeing the Chinese situation unfold before their eyes.

And they'd likely argue whether the action taken was decisive. In that it implies that there is some "master plan" underpinning the actions. Encompassing both internal and external action.

Yes, he's closed the borders, and the Fed has created $1.5 trillion in new money. But the GOP has been fighting within itself as to just whom should be the recipient of the newly created largesse (before the House of Reps then disappeared off on indefinite break):

Fair points - although in this situation, doing anything (or not doing anything) has important consequences. Jump too early and people loose confidence and say you overreacted. Move too late and those same people level a different critique.

And I should be clear - I don't think we are in a position yet to judge what the appropriate course of action is/was/will be.

As for the recipients - Democrats typically favor giving it to the individual, hoping that it will promote spending, increase money velocity etc. Republics tend to favor giving it to business so that they can stay running and paying wages, which keeps the money velocity going.

[sugilite]

There are some, for sure, but usually on closer inspection, there are some interesting facets to said republicans.
I could not say, I have not had time to interview them all like you seem to off ;)


Probably the single most accurate statement - the mud flinging that is (at best) petty point scoring is really what galvanizes people like me in my support.

I'm all for criticising politicians (even those I like) when they do something stupid, and praising politicians (and especially those I don't like) when they do something good.

It's the one-way traffic that's an issue.
I do not recall you criticizing Trump much, if at all. I do recall you giving what is in my opinion pretty flimsy (at best) free passes to him.


Maybe, although once he reached the point of taking action, he did take some pretty decisive action.

Like this one - I rest my case. :laugh:
And I'm quite sure that only when it was pointed out to him that he was torching his re-election hopes did he actually do something. He really has no business looking after the interest of the people like Presidents are supposed to do when all he knows, and has demonstrated time and time again in the past, is to look after himself and his own interests. Trump 1st.
Also I meant to comment on your earlier post: Cheerful positive moral boosting tweeting of barefaced lies, is not good leadership or ultimately good for the people he is charged with protecting.

[pritch]

This morning the stable genius claims he was calling it a pandemic before anybody else. Yeah right! Perhaps I just imagined him calling it a hoax?

The Internet is full of lunacy, there was a claim that the virus is caused by 5G. Sherriff Clarke claimed the virus was started by George Soros. You may remember Clarke, he's the black Trump sycophant with a big hat who wore all sorts of "tin" medals and badges. He looked like a Christmas tree but it all meant nothing. Apparently he went totally over the top with his nonsense and Twitter canned his account.

The mega church preachers in the US are living down to their low reputation. Trump's White House spiritual adviser is hawking a Coronavirus cure. Another prominent preacher is also selling snake oil but he is being sued.

There is a clip of a preacher telling his huge flock that they don't need to worry about the virus because no evil can hurt them in God's house. Another one says drinking garlic water will cure the virus.

There's a clip one of these arseholes holding his open but slimy hand toward the camera, if you touch his hand on your screen you'll be cured of the virus. He's the same one who was asked why he needed two private jets. His reply?
"Next time Jesus comes he won't be riding a donkey."

Can't have the people not coming to church, that'd stop the dollars rolling in.

Considering the circumstances it's nteresting, if not surprising, that Trump's choice as Whitehouse Doctor does not actually hold a medical degree.

[sugilite]

Fair points - although in this situation, doing anything (or not doing anything) has important consequences. Jump too early and people loose confidence and say you overreacted. Move too late and those same people level a different critique.
Oh PLEASE. He downplayed it all to the max despite being informed by the best minds on the subject in the US. Just more FPFT (Free Pass For Trump) :oi-grr:
Perhaps closely related to DMPAAC (Defend My Position At All Cost)?


And I should be clear - I don't think we are in a position yet to judge what the appropriate course of action is/was/will be.
Yes, why plan for the worst case scenario when experiencing one would be much more fun. :pinch:


As for the recipients - Democrats typically favor giving it to the individual, hoping that it will promote spending, increase money velocity etc. Republics tend to favor giving it to business so that they can stay running and paying wages, which keeps the money velocity going.

Yes, I well remember in 2008/9 Democrat Obama giving the money to the people most in need, the BANKING people that is! They really deserved and needed those bonuses for killing the World economy. :doh:

[TheDemonLord]

I could not say, I have not had time to interview them all like you seem to off ;)

Not interview - but I've noticed that (like the Democrats) there are differences of opinion, There's your Religious conservatives, the disillusioned center-left Conservative, Conservatives who use the title to advance their own agenda (and many more types)etc.

From what I've seen, most of the traditional Conservatives (including those who criticized the President prior to his ascension) hold to the "He's the President now, it's our duty to support him, even if we might privately think he's a knob" and act as such.


I do not recall you criticizing Trump much, if at all. I do recall you giving what is in my opinion pretty flimsy (at best) free passes to him.

I've certainly said his manner of speaking is a bit 'unique', he's a risk taker (sometimes not what is needed), he probably shouldn't tweet as much as he does.

But in fairness to your point, most of the time I pipe up is when I feel he's being unreasonably smeared. He's yet to do anything that I would consider particularly egregious.


Like this one - I rest my case. :laugh:
And I'm quite sure that only when it was pointed out to him that he was torching his re-election hopes did he actually do something. He really has no business looking after the interest of the people like Presidents are supposed to do when all he knows, and has demonstrated time and time again in the past, is to look after himself and his own interests. Trump 1st.

So, you are saying that he listens when he needs to and that somehow this makes him a bad leader?


Also I meant to comment on your earlier post: Cheerful positive moral boosting tweeting of barefaced lies, is not good leadership or ultimately good for the people he is charged with protecting.

What Barefaced lies? Positive statements of 'We will get through this' - I'm not sure how that could be a barefaced lie. Mildly gushing and obnoxious, irritatingly optimistic, but Barefaced lie?

Even then however, it's been well documented that people who are regarded as 'good leaders' have said things that (at the time) were untrue, in order to inspire those underneath them to make it true.


Oh PLEASE. He downplayed it all to the max despite being informed by the best minds on the subject in the US. Just more FPFT (Free Pass For Trump) :oi-grr:
Perhaps closely related to DMPAAC (Defend My Position At All Cost)?

I do believe I said that I don't think we can declare what would be the right course of action, and in the clarity of time, I may have to agree that his action/inaction was a poor choice. However, I see this (and feel free to FPFT this) that until it's time to take action, then you carry on BAU.


Yes, why plan for the worst case scenario when experiencing one would be much more fun. :pinch:

Cost Benefit, it's impossible to plan appropriately for every worst case scenario and when enacting plans can seriously screw over many different areas, prudence is needed. To be clear though, it needs to be weighed against Risk. It's a difficult decision and it may be that Trump made the wrong call and will need to be criticized for it. I don't know yet, we don't have the benefit of hindsight yet.


Yes, I well remember in 2008/9 Democrat Obama giving the money to the people most in need, the BANKING people that is! They really deserved and needed those bonuses for killing the World economy. :doh:

I did say 'Typically'... And I'll be honest, I'm on the fence for the Sub-Prime mortgage recovery process. Part of me thinks they should have let the Banks fail. Another part of me thinks back to the UK's bail-out of Rolls Royce (which has gone on to be very successful).

[pritch]

He really has no business looking after the interest of the people like Presidents are supposed to do when all he knows, and has demonstrated time and time again in the past, is to look after himself and his own interests. Trump 1st.


Interesting comment.

Trump refused to acquire the WHO testing kits used everywhere else in the world. He wanted US manufactured testing kits. He got some produced but there was a slight problem - they didn't work. Medical staff figured out how to make them work but could not use the kits because their method was not approved by the Food and Drug Administration. Very frustrating for the doctors involved.

There is a shortage of the kits because presumably the company producing them can't manufacture them in the quantity needed. The Chinese Billionaire, Jack Ma, offered the US help with masks and test kits, but Trump reportedly again refused the test kits.
The free test kits.

This shortage of functioning test kits did not trouble Trump overmuch because if there was no testing, there could be no confirmed cases.

Trump appointed his son-in-law Jared to be in charge of the response to the virus pandemic. That's actually illegal but never mind... In that capacity, presumably Jared was party to the decision to award the contract for the supply of test kits to a company called Oscar Health. Oscar Health was co-founded by a Joshua Kushner. If that name seems familiar that's because he's Jared Kushner's brother.

What a coincidence!


Anybody who thinks the Trump family is not profiting from the pandemic is fucking simple.

[jasonu]

Interesting comment.

Trump refused to acquire the WHO testing kits used everywhere else in the world. He wanted US manufactured testing kits. He got some produced but there was a slight problem - they didn't work. Medical staff figured out how to make them work but could not use the kits because their method was not approved by the Food and Drug Administration. Very frustrating for the doctors involved.

There is a shortage of the kits because the company producing them can't manufacture them in the quantity needed. The Chinese Billionaire, Jack Ma, offered the US help with masks and test kits, but Trump reportedly again refused the test kits.
The free test kits.

This shortage of functioning test kits did not trouble Trump overmuch because if there was no testing, there would be no confirmed cases.

Trump appointed his son-in-law Jared to be in charge of the response to the virus pandemic. That's actually illegal but never mind... In that capacity, presumably Jared was party to the decision to award the contract for the supply of test kits to a company called Oscar Health. Oscar Health was co-founded by a Joshua Kushner. If that name seems familiar that's because he's Jared Kushner's brother.

What a coincidence!


Anybody who believes anything I post is fucking simple.

Edited for accuracy.

[sugilite]

Not interview - but I've noticed that (like the Democrats) there are differences of opinion, There's your Religious conservatives, the disillusioned center-left Conservative, Conservatives who use the title to advance their own agenda (and many more types)etc.

From what I've seen, most of the traditional Conservatives (including those who criticized the President prior to his ascension) hold to the "He's the President now, it's our duty to support him, even if we might privately think he's a knob" and act as such.
Sigh, so you basically confirm that as I said, there are republicans who know he is a dick too.




I've certainly said his manner of speaking is a bit 'unique', he's a risk taker (sometimes not what is needed), he probably shouldn't tweet as much as he does.
Ouch, a stinging rebuke on Trump - not.


But in fairness to your point, most of the time I pipe up is when I feel he's being unreasonably smeared. He's yet to do anything that I would consider particularly egregious.
Sure, as is your right.



So, you are saying that he listens when he needs to and that somehow this makes him a bad leader?
He needed to listen a hell of a lot sooner to qualify as a good leader.



What Barefaced lies? Positive statements of 'We will get through this' - I'm not sure how that could be a barefaced lie. Mildly gushing and obnoxious, irritatingly optimistic, but Barefaced lie?
I'm encompassing most of his recent tweets regarding the virus, not cherry picking his one benign one. Downplaying it is a lie, Saying he has a good grasp of science is a lie, saying his gut feeling that the death rate is lower than what WHO is saying is as good as a lie. People (dimwits) look to him for guidance. If taken seriously, his guidance is terrible. If you want me to find his lying tweets, we both know neither of us has enough time to either find or read them.


Even then however, it's been well documented that people who are regarded as 'good leaders' have said things that (at the time) were untrue, in order to inspire those underneath them to make it true.

So that would be within your criteria for how you next vote? "Will this leader be shit enough to inspire others around them to become greater?"
Smacking of DMPAAC there bro.


I do believe I said that I don't think we can declare what would be the right course of action, and in the clarity of time, I may have to agree that his action/inaction was a poor choice. However, I see this (and feel free to FPFT this) that until it's time to take action, then you carry on BAU.

Cost Benefit, it's impossible to plan appropriately for every worst case scenario and when enacting plans can seriously screw over many different areas, prudence is needed. To be clear though, it needs to be weighed against Risk. It's a difficult decision and it may be that Trump made the wrong call and will need to be criticized for it. I don't know yet, we don't have the benefit of hindsight yet.
How many coffins would it take to make the right decision? Sorry Mr Demonlord, that logic based on all the deaths in a short space of time, and now people are even getting re-infected now - is moronic. You need treatment for the serious case of DMPAAC.


I did say 'Typically'... And I'll be honest, I'm on the fence for the Sub-Prime mortgage recovery process. Part of me thinks they should have let the Banks fail. Another part of me thinks back to the UK's bail-out of Rolls Royce (which has gone on to be very successful).
I was going back to the last time where an emergency requiring cash handouts was last implemented in the US? Are there more recent ones I'm missing?

[pritch]

Germany has ordered churches and brothels to close. Sounds fair.

[TheDemonLord]

Sigh, so you basically confirm that as I said, there are republicans who know he is a dick too.

I never said they didn't exist, I said that there was usually other factors hinting that said other factors were of greater importance than their conservatism.


Ouch, a stinging rebuke on Trump - not.

Well, compared to the other world leaders and what I've critiqued them on, Trump has not done things in a similar vein, so I'm left with that.

But by all means, When he declares a frivolous war or Tramples on my Property rights or actively helps engineer a migrant crisis or fails to properly implement a referendum that was voted on by the people, then I'll have a stinging rebuke for him.


He needed to listen a hell of a lot sooner to qualify as a good leader.

Maybe, Maybe not. It's too early to tell when the right time was. But I feel I need to repeat myself - if in hindsight it shows he made a bad call, then I'll happily critique him then. Those that are critiquing him now are the same lot that critique him on every little thing (imagined or otherwise) and so I put zero stock in their rebukes.


I'm encompassing most of his recent tweets regarding the virus, not cherry picking his one benign one. Downplaying it is a lie, Saying he has a good grasp of science is a lie, saying his gut feeling that the death rate is lower than what WHO is saying is as good as a lie. People (dimwits) look to him for guidance. If taken seriously, his guidance is terrible. If you want me to find his lying tweets, we both know neither of us has enough time to either find or read them.

Okay, given the context isn't what I posted, you can see why I don't consider what I posted a Lie.

But let's take you at your word (because TBH it seems like something he would say). Downplaying something - I can't call that a Lie per se. As I said, It's BAU until it's not.

Good Grasp on Science - Puffery? Yes. Barefaced lie, maybe in the strictest sense, but I again come back to how I listen to Trump's manner of speaking. If he had a good walk, he'd describe it as the greatest walk ever done by anyone. Is it a lie? You could say that, I tend to filter out the self-promotion and aggrandizing as just that. As for overall death rate - we'll see - My prediction is less than 5% of total cases (world wide) will be Fatal, if we find the initial death rate was higher (due to the at-risk population getting infected and dying first), then we'll know his statement was 'true'.



So that would be within your criteria for how you next vote? "Will this leader be shit enough to inspire others around them to become greater?"
Smacking of DMPAAC there bro.

Well, how I next vote will be "Get this Socialist Tooth Fairy out at all costs"...

But in seriousness, If a Leader inspires others to greatness, can they be considered Shit? It's not like the method he's using for inspiration is public executions or similar.

Or perhaps a different way of looking at it - A generation of Kids grew up watching Star Trek: The Next Generation. Based on what they saw (Science Fiction and didn't exist), they were inspired to make those things a reality (Computers capable of playing Music, Tablet computers etc. still holding out for Warp, Phasers and Teleportation...) Or the Sports coach that told the Japanese Rugby team they could beat South Africa - we would have said that was a lie at the time.

If you don't like that he does that or you don't think that is the effect he is having, then that's your opinion - I happen to hold that having someone who continually tells others that they can do it, to be the best etc. etc. whilst being obnoxiously optimistic does have a sort of placebo effect.


How many coffins would it take to make the right decision? Sorry Mr Demonlord, that logic based on all the deaths in a short space of time, and now people are even getting re-infected now - is moronic. You need treatment for the serious case of DMPAAC.

The responses to SARS, H1N1, Avian Bird Flu, Swine Flu etc. and the Good old fashioned 'Flu' is my Yardstick. If I really wanted to be snippy, I'd include Spanish Flu in there, but I don't think an Epidemic in the 1919s/1920s is really a fair comparison.


I was going back to the last time where an emergency requiring cash handouts was last implemented in the US? Are there more recent ones I'm missing?

It wasn't a critique on your choice of example - It's perfect for the point you were making. It was more an observation that you're correct the Democrats sometimes favor big business over the little guy (in fact, given the current leadership race, it seems there's still some hills being died upon on), but I did quantify my statement with a 'typically' - the rest was more a case of I still haven't decided whether I think the government bail out of the banks was right or not.

[Viking01]

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/17/white-house-senate-republicans-coronavirus-aid-133732

I liked the last sentence. Given past practice for the US banks and the Pentagon.

[Edit]

Forgot to include the 21 Intelligence agencies in the last sentence. Must not forget the Russian threat.

[Bonez]

Edited for accuracy.Thank you.;)

[sugilite]

I never said they didn't exist, I said that there was usually other factors hinting that said other factors were of greater importance than their conservatism.
OK, I'm just saying they exist, and they are the smart ones.



Well, compared to the other world leaders and what I've critiqued them on, Trump has not done things in a similar vein, so I'm left with that.

But by all means, When he declares a frivolous war or Tramples on my Property rights or actively helps engineer a migrant crisis or fails to properly implement a referendum that was voted on by the people, then I'll have a stinging rebuke for him.
Not sure if you talking about Labor or National, as I have seen both bunch of cunts do and don't do that.




Maybe, Maybe not. It's too early to tell when the right time was. But I feel I need to repeat myself - if in hindsight it shows he made a bad call, then I'll happily critique him then. Those that are critiquing him now are the same lot that critique him on every little thing (imagined or otherwise) and so I put zero stock in their rebukes.



Okay, given the context isn't what I posted, you can see why I don't consider what I posted a Lie.

But let's take you at your word (because TBH it seems like something he would say). Downplaying something - I can't call that a Lie per se. As I said, It's BAU until it's not.

Good Grasp on Science - Puffery? Yes. Barefaced lie, maybe in the strictest sense, but I again come back to how I listen to Trump's manner of speaking. If he had a good walk, he'd describe it as the greatest walk ever done by anyone. Is it a lie? You could say that, I tend to filter out the self-promotion and aggrandizing as just that. As for overall death rate - we'll see - My prediction is less than 5% of total cases (world wide) will be Fatal, if we find the initial death rate was higher (due to the at-risk population getting infected and dying first), then we'll know his statement was 'true'.
OK, clearly we have different standards for the type of person who is suitable as being a leader. I do wonder how many free passes you would give trump if he were the labor PM for NZ and he was pulling the same shit, that goes for Dr Gutnuthin too.




Well, how I next vote will be "Get this Socialist Tooth Fairy out at all costs"...
OK, I'm curious what socialist policies has snagglepuss implemented - and just for shits and giggles, lets use the actual definition of Socialism such as wikipedia defines it?


But in seriousness, If a Leader inspires others to greatness, can they be considered Shit? It's not like the method he's using for inspiration is public executions or similar.
Such as someone needing to do their job and clean up after the leader, no. And wanking off about how the virus is a hoax and downplaying it. Ask a supporter who took his advice and is now on their death bed, they may feel he sentenced them to death - extreme I know, but not impossible eh.


Or perhaps a different way of looking at it - A generation of Kids grew up watching Star Trek: The Next Generation. Based on what they saw (Science Fiction and didn't exist), they were inspired to make those things a reality (Computers capable of playing Music, Tablet computers etc. still holding out for Warp, Phasers and Teleportation...) Or the Sports coach that told the Japanese Rugby team they could beat South Africa - we would have said that was a lie at the time.
This reaching definitely is classified as reaching for the stars :lol: Mr Demonlord, I'm throwing you off this building to your death, but don't worry because they have tech that can download and upload your consciousness to another body. I'm not lying because it will be available in a feeeeeewwwwww huuuuunnnndreeed yeeeeaaaarrrrsss :laugh:


If you don't like that he does that or you don't think that is the effect he is having, then that's your opinion - I happen to hold that having someone who continually tells others that they can do it, to be the best etc. etc. whilst being obnoxiously optimistic does have a sort of placebo effect.

Placebo effect? Perfect! Lets book you in for a homeopathy appointment should you get the virus....No?


The responses to SARS, H1N1, Avian Bird Flu, Swine Flu etc. and the Good old fashioned 'Flu' is my Yardstick. If I really wanted to be snippy, I'd include Spanish Flu in there, but I don't think an Epidemic in the 1919s/1920s is really a fair comparison.
I took zero notice of the ones you mention, I'm sure taking notice of this one.



It wasn't a critique on your choice of example - It's perfect for the point you were making. It was more an observation that you're correct the Democrats sometimes favor big business over the little guy (in fact, given the current leadership race, it seems there's still some hills being died upon on), but I did quantify my statement with a 'typically' - the rest was more a case of I still haven't decided whether I think the government bail out of the banks was right or not.
I say there is barely any difference between them. Maybe there once was, but no longer. Obama was bought and paid for by old rich men looking to stay that way.

[oldrider]

Was Adolf Hitler a Zionist Stooge? - https://www.bitchute.com/video/0erLDRJ8FbwA/ - The Adage:- "If you don't know where you are going, how do you know when you get there"? - :scratch: Springs to mind? (Just sayin like?)

[pritch]

Was Adolf Hitler a Zionist Stooge?

Geez John what next? 4 chan?

[TheDemonLord]

OK, I'm just saying they exist, and they are the smart ones.

Smart? For sure some of them are, but the ones that I'm thinking of (Mitt Romney, for example) have gone against the Trump due to other strongly held beliefs.


Not sure if you talking about Labor or National, as I have seen both bunch of cunts do and don't do that.

All sides were equally represented in that remark, Labour (both NZ and UK), National, Democrats, Republicans, Conservatives.


OK, clearly we have different standards for the type of person who is suitable as being a leader. I do wonder how many free passes you would give trump if he were the labor PM for NZ and he was pulling the same shit, that goes for Dr Gutnuthin too.

That's a good question. And more importantly, one I can answer. I didn't like that Jacinda Ardern got to be PM because of Winnie wanting to get back at National (and get his grubby mitts on the reigns of power).

However, you'll note that I've not said things like 'She's not my Prime Minister', nor have I called for her to be stood-down due to some Trumped up charges. My main point of umbrage with her is the fact that thanks to Her and her Government, I've been treated like a Criminal for a Crime I had no part in doing. That is where I've taken outright hostility towards her and as far as I'm concerned - she and her cronies can Fuck right off.

Up until then, I disagreed with her, mocked her when certain pre-election policies that were clearly pie-in-the-sky from the outset failed, but I've certainly not ridiculed her in the same way that the those that oppose Trump do so.


OK, I'm curious what socialist policies has snagglepuss implemented - and just for shits and giggles, lets use the actual definition of Socialism such as wikipedia defines it?

So that we are clear, I call her a Socialist because she was the President of the Socialist Youth, not because of any Policy (feel free to reference Wikipedia for that Claim).

But since you asked, Kiwibuild had socialistic elements to it (including it's predictable Failure), and like Many Socialists, she's enacted 'strong' new Firearm legislation, Then you've got the usual "Tax the rich" and targeting the "bourgeoisie" - for example stringent new Landlord regulations, that has all the hallmarks of Marxist inspired thinking (including having the opposite effect to what is desired)


Such as someone needing to do their job and clean up after the leader, no. And wanking off about how the virus is a hoax and downplaying it. Ask a supporter who took his advice and is now on their death bed, they may feel he sentenced them to death - extreme I know, but not impossible eh.

This reaching definitely is classified as reaching for the stars :lol: Mr Demonlord, I'm throwing you off this building to your death, but don't worry because they have tech that can download and upload your consciousness to another body. I'm not lying because it will be available in a feeeeeewwwwww huuuuunnnndreeed yeeeeaaaarrrrsss :laugh:

It wasn't reaching for the stars, it's to highlight that confidence begets confidence. You may say it's all BS and a hoax and a trick - That's fine, but it doesn't change the underlying point that self-belief is a powerful and infectious thing.


Placebo effect? Perfect! Lets book you in for a homeopathy appointment should you get the virus....No?

For a Placebo to work, I've got to believe it to work ;)


I took zero notice of the ones you mention, I'm sure taking notice of this one.

Really? Well, I'm so glad you've said that, because you'll notice that one of the ones I sneaked in was SARS - which is also a strain of Coronavirus, with a higher mortality rate (~10%) and had a higher infectiousness rate.

Why didn't you take notice of the other ones? Why are you taking notice of this one? If I was to conjecture part of that answer is to do with the end-of-the-world media hype around it, would you disagree?

I'm not saying it's not a serious issue, only that it might be being hyped up a little bit. What it seems so-far is that if you get it, you live in the west and you aren't over 60 or under 5 and are without a pre-existing Medical condition - you are likely to survive and be fine.

That's not to have no sympathing for the old or infirm (Hell, I have little ones so I've got some concerns), but I think with the current situation, we are in danger of creating bigger problems due to Panic than the Virus.


I say there is barely any difference between them. Maybe there once was, but no longer. Obama was bought and paid for by old rich men looking to stay that way.

Damn that's savage.... I'm sure there is something in there I could disagree with, but I don't think I can bring myself to do so because... Damn...

[sugilite]

All sides were equally represented in that remark, Labour (both NZ and UK), National, Democrats, Republicans, Conservatives.

That's a good question. And more importantly, one I can answer. I didn't like that Jacinda Ardern got to be PM because of Winnie wanting to get back at National (and get his grubby mitts on the reigns of power).

However, you'll note that I've not said things like 'She's not my Prime Minister', nor have I called for her to be stood-down due to some Trumped up charges. My main point of umbrage with her is the fact that thanks to Her and her Government, I've been treated like a Criminal for a Crime I had no part in doing. That is where I've taken outright hostility towards her and as far as I'm concerned - she and her cronies can Fuck right off.

Up until then, I disagreed with her, mocked her when certain pre-election policies that were clearly pie-in-the-sky from the outset failed, but I've certainly not ridiculed her in the same way that the those that oppose Trump do so.
OK, fair enough on nearly all points. I was not disappointed when she got in on the coat tails of Winnie, but are very disappointed with her and hers party lack of action on many things they said they would be hot on. And OK, I will bite, what crime?




So that we are clear, I call her a Socialist because she was the President of the Socialist Youth, not because of any Policy (feel free to reference Wikipedia for that Claim).

But since you asked, Kiwibuild had socialistic elements to it (including it's predictable Failure), and like Many Socialists, she's enacted 'strong' new Firearm legislation, Then you've got the usual "Tax the rich" and targeting the "bourgeoisie" - for example stringent new Landlord regulations, that has all the hallmarks of Marxist inspired thinking (including having the opposite effect to what is desired)


Ahhhh, ok, fair enough on the title. Tough gig on the firearms thing. She had to do something and I see no need for the types of weapons she banned. I live rural, the hunters are still hunting just fine.



For a Placebo to work, I've got to believe it to work ;)

The Trump brand is shit.




Really? Well, I'm so glad you've said that, because you'll notice that one of the ones I sneaked in was SARS - which is also a strain of Coronavirus, with a higher mortality rate (~10%) and had a higher infectiousness rate.

Why didn't you take notice of the other ones? Why are you taking notice of this one? If I was to conjecture part of that answer is to do with the end-of-the-world media hype around it, would you disagree?

I'm not saying it's not a serious issue, only that it might be being hyped up a little bit. What it seems so-far is that if you get it, you live in the west and you aren't over 60 or under 5 and are without a pre-existing Medical condition - you are likely to survive and be fine.

That's not to have no sympathing for the old or infirm (Hell, I have little ones so I've got some concerns), but I think with the current situation, we are in danger of creating bigger problems due to Panic than the Virus.

Sars total deaths ever = 774, Italy in just the last 24 hours 475!!! If you were to align all those 475 coffins, that is dam near 1 kilometer! You truly seem to have a massive disconnect on this one, I have no idea why. That death rate alone gets my attention. I'm not going to engage any further with you on this subject, you are just so far of beam with it, I see little point.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120395429/coronavirus-italys-death-toll-reaches-a-recordhigh-475-deaths-in-one-day




Damn that's savage.... I'm sure there is something in there I could disagree with, but I don't think I can bring myself to do so because... Damn...

He had me fooled, then I watched the documentary by Michael Moore on the flint water reply, then I got to see Obamas true colours.
POS

[TheDemonLord]

OK, fair enough on nearly all points. I was not disappointed when she got in on the coat tails of Winnie, but are very disappointed with her and hers party lack of action on many things they said they would be hot on. And OK, I will bite, what crime?

To add to that - My Wife (who has Voted Greens, National and Labour - go figure) is really pissed off at the Greens, I told her when she voted that she was in effect voting for the Communist party of NZ, She voted for them because she likes the sound of some of their environmental policies (and to be really fair, I think the Greens Public transport policy was the most well thought out) - and now they've shown their true colours in power (being a bunch of Rabid SJW Marxists that don't love the environment, they just hate Capitalism), she'll never vote for them again. Which is good on two fronts, the most important of course being winning an argument with my Wife.

Same one discussed below.


Ahhhh, ok, fair enough on the title. Tough gig on the firearms thing. She had to do something and I see no need for the types of weapons she banned. I live rural, the hunters are still hunting just fine.

Do something - sure.
What she did - She can fuck off.

There were many many alternatives and alternatives that would have gotten widespread support from the Firearms community.

But she went with the most vindictive, punitive measure possible - Finally her and her Cronies had the tragedy and corpses they needed to ram Firearm changes through. I'll never forgive her or anyone tangentially associated with that for it.

On top of that, although I thought her initial actions after the event were full of Empathy etc. What she did subsequently has convinced me that it was nothing more than a well-rehearsed act in order to further her international agendas.

As for no need - Need is a very flimsy rationale on which to base Laws. You don't 'Need' a car, you don't 'need' a swimming pool, you don't 'need' DIY etc. etc.


The Trump brand is shit.

Depends on what you consider a good brand or not. The fact we had all heard of it well before his run for the Presidency, on some level, means it's a good brand - it's got recognition and therefore value. I personally don't care for what the Brand is selling or represents.


Sars total deaths ever = 774, Italy in just the last 24 hours 475!!! If you were to align all those 475 coffins, that is dam near 1 kilometer! You truly seem to have a massive disconnect on this one, I have no idea why. That death rate alone gets my attention. I'm not going to engage any further with you on this subject, you are just so far of beam with it, I see little point.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120395429/coronavirus-italys-death-toll-reaches-a-recordhigh-475-deaths-in-one-day

There's some differences to be fair, the biggest being that SARS was much more visible when it was contagious and therefore much easier to isolate and quarantine. There's also some murmurings (and to be clear I consider these as conjecture at best) that the high number of cases is down more to China's inaction on the initial spread of infection and then certain countries, like Italy, making bad calls.

Looking at the news this morning, the Death rate is around 3-4% - Which is bad, I don't want people to die, but remember when I said anything over 5% I'd be concerned with.


He had me fooled, then I watched the documentary by Michael Moore on the flint water reply, then I got to see Obamas true colours.
POS

Again, Oof! Savage!

[Katman]

Looking at the news this morning, the Death rate is around 3-4% - Which is bad, I don't want people to die, but remember when I said anything over 5% I'd be concerned with.

Remind me again - what's the death rate from measles?

[TheDemonLord]

Remind me again - what's the death rate from measles?

In the western world with above 90% vaccination rates? 0%.

and I'd like to keep it that way.

Try again.

[Katman]

In the western world with above 90% vaccination rates? 0%.

and I'd like to keep it that way.

Try again.

According to the CDC, in the decade before 1963 (so before the vaccine was even available) 3 to 4 million people in the States were infected with measles each year and 400 to 500 died from it.

I'm sure even you can work out the death rate from those figures.

[TheDemonLord]

According to the CDC, in the decade before 1963 (so before the vaccine was even available) 3 to 4 million people in the States were infected with measles each year and 400 to 500 died from it.

I'm sure even you can work out the death rate from those figures.

You'd do better to look at Samoa - I believe it was around a 2% mortality rate. The difference here being there's a proven way to reduce the rate to 0.

When there's a method to reduce the rate for (Insert new virus from China here) to 0%, then you'll have your equivalence required to make that critique.

[Katman]

You'd do better to look at Samoa - I believe it was around a 2% mortality rate.

I'll just remind you that you said this.......


Which is bad, I don't want people to die, but remember when I said anything over 5% I'd be concerned with.

[TheDemonLord]

I'll just remind you that you said this.......

I know....

The problem with the equivalence you are trying to setup is that little addendum I added:

"The difference here being there's a proven way to reduce the rate to 0."

[Katman]

I know....

The problem with the equivalence you are trying to setup is that little addendum I added:

"The difference here being there's a proven way to reduce the rate to 0."

The only equivalence I'm trying to setup is to show your inconsistency regarding what sort of death rate figure 'concerns' you.

[TheDemonLord]

The only equivalence I'm trying to setup is to show your inconsistency regarding what sort of death rate figure 'concerns' you.

Except there is no inconsistency, because there is no equivalence.

Scenario A: No Antiviral/Vaccine available - If Death rate is greater than 5% = DemonLord Concerned.
Scenario B: 100% effective Vaccine available - If Death rate changes to a positive integer from a rate of 0% = DemonLord Concerned.

Different Scenarios, facilitating different levels of Concern.

[Bonez]

The word has terned upside down. https://youtu.be/ffVyQKu7Uxw

[jasonu]

The word has terned upside down. https://youtu.be/ffVyQKu7Uxw

She'll be sacked by weeks end.

[sugilite]

It's fucking pollies like this that need a ballpeen hammer taken to their testicle. And I don't care what color tie they wear.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/coronavirus-us-update-senate-bill-rand-paul-amendment-a9408131.html

[Bonez]

It's fucking pollies like this that need a ballpeen hammer taken to their testicle. And I don't care what color tie they wear.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/coronavirus-us-update-senate-bill-rand-paul-amendment-a9408131.htmlIt's ball been or ball-peen Doc. Glad I could help:motu:

[sugilite]

It's ball been or ball-peen Doc. Glad I could help:motu:

Ball been? Try again gutnuthin :laugh:

[Bonez]

Ball been? Try again gutnuthin :laugh:Got to give you something to moan about.:drool:

[TheDemonLord]

I always knew it as a Ball Pein hammer....

[sugilite]

Got to give you something to moan about.:drool:
Pollies holding up important legislation is something I moan at, angry dudes that gutnuthin I laugh at :laugh:

[Bonez]

Pollies holding up important legislation is something I moan atC'mon Doc you've moan at more then that in this thread. It 's also obvious you have a rabid hatred for the Trump team dispiite some of their positive achievements.:tugger:

[sugilite]

C'mon Doc you've moan at more then that in this thread. It 's also obvious you have a rabid hatred for the Trump team dispiite some of their positive achievements.:tugger:
Oh dear gutnuthin is at it again. I have attempted to relay my thought processes on Trump to you using words with as few syllables as possible, but you still don't get it :laugh:
I have actually rapidly hated someone and it takes a hell of a lot of time and energy, and I'm sure not going to waste that on Trump. The key word in your sentence there is "some" and sure he has done "some" good work. And a shit ton of bad work.

[sugilite]

To add to that - My Wife (who has Voted Greens, National and Labour - go figure) is really pissed off at the Greens, I told her when she voted that she was in effect voting for the Communist party of NZ, She voted for them because she likes the sound of some of their environmental policies (and to be really fair, I think the Greens Public transport policy was the most well thought out) - and now they've shown their true colours in power (being a bunch of Rabid SJW Marxists that don't love the environment, they just hate Capitalism), she'll never vote for them again. Which is good on two fronts, the most important of course being winning an argument with my Wife.

Same one discussed below.
OK, sure. However I view the greens as being largely insignificant, likely even more so this election.




Do something - sure.
What she did - She can fuck off.

There were many many alternatives and alternatives that would have gotten widespread support from the Firearms community.

But she went with the most vindictive, punitive measure possible - Finally her and her Cronies had the tragedy and corpses they needed to ram Firearm changes through. I'll never forgive her or anyone tangentially associated with that for it.

On top of that, although I thought her initial actions after the event were full of Empathy etc. What she did subsequently has convinced me that it was nothing more than a well-rehearsed act in order to further her international agendas.

As for no need - Need is a very flimsy rationale on which to base Laws. You don't 'Need' a car, you don't 'need' a swimming pool, you don't 'need' DIY etc. etc.
Did the Nats not back the gun deal too? Vindictive, premeditated? Not my take on it. Less guns for loonies to kill people - still plenty of guns for hunting etc. A win in my book. As for your definition for "need" being a flimsy rationale, just about ever law in existence is born of "need". I LOVE speed. Speed laws needed? Probably. Shall I cry how I'm not allowed to speed, nope.



Depends on what you consider a good brand or not. The fact we had all heard of it well before his run for the Presidency, on some level, means it's a good brand - it's got recognition and therefore value. I personally don't care for what the Brand is selling or represents.
Brand reality TV and shonky real estate dude, and self admitted flagrant tax manipulation etc. Sure, top brand for a president - not. And by the way, it crossed my mind in regards to your shitty boss bringing out the best in others. This particular boss fires most of the ones that clean up his messes - fact.




There's some differences to be fair, the biggest being that SARS was much more visible when it was contagious and therefore much easier to isolate and quarantine. There's also some murmurings (and to be clear I consider these as conjecture at best) that the high number of cases is down more to China's inaction on the initial spread of infection and then certain countries, like Italy, making bad calls.

Looking at the news this morning, the Death rate is around 3-4% - Which is bad, I don't want people to die, but remember when I said anything over 5% I'd be concerned with.

My God man, your rationale on this and the metrics you prefer to use are a million miles away from mine. This one spreads so easily undetected and has killed so, so many more. I just have to assume this is a case of DMPAAC.






Again, Oof! Savage!
Well deserved.

[oldrider]

Is the current “pandemic” just the latest contrived “enemy of the state”?:- http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/54030.htm



<iframe width="853" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3E_46XobpEQ" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[TheDemonLord]

OK, sure. However I view the greens as being largely insignificant, likely even more so this election.

Me too, but for different reasons - The Green voter base IMO comes in 2 flavours: The Communists (who I don't like) and people who would like to see things like Cleaner rivers, less (or none) use of 1080 etc. The latter voters (from what I've seen) having seen what the Greens have (or more specifically have not) done when in power are disillusioned with them.


Did the Nats not back the gun deal too? Vindictive, premeditated? Not my take on it.

Yes, the did. And they can Fuck off too. Although they have opposed the second round, having started to see some semblence of sense, but they can still Fuck off.

As for Vindictive and premeditated - The NZ Police have been trying to re-interpret the laws for a better part of a Decade and when Firearm owners challenged them, the courts repeatedly bitch-slapped the NZ Police. Pre-meditated because those sets of law changes have been on the books for years - some inside sources have suggested that they were drafted as far back as 2017/2018.

I say Vindictive because the entire 'buy back' process by which you had to watch your personal property get destroyed, whilst flanked by armed Police was ENTIRELY a show of force designed to kowtow those evil Firearm loving Owners.

Good job that less than 30% (based on the highest estimate of Firearms handed in and the lowest estimate of pre-ban ownership) complied with the law change.


Less guns for loonies to kill people - still plenty of guns for hunting etc. A win in my book. As for your definition for "need" being a flimsy rationale, just about ever law in existence is born of "need". I LOVE speed. Speed laws needed? Probably. Shall I cry how I'm not allowed to speed, nope.

Except all it's done is got a few guns off of people who were demonstrably never a threat to society, cost Hundreds of Millions of Dollars, created a massive black market, increased Gang Violence and alienated a segment of society by treating them as Criminals - which never ends well, especially if said segment is armed, which they are.

And for what? So Jacinda can swan around on the international stage getting her bits tickled by a left-leaning press that is borderline manic in their eagerness to sing her praises? The only thing missing from the Buy Back was actual effective legislation that would have prevented a repeat tragedy from occurring.


Brand reality TV and shonky real estate dude, and self admitted flagrant tax manipulation etc. Sure, top brand for a president - not. And by the way, it crossed my mind in regards to your shitty boss bringing out the best in others. This particular boss fires most of the ones that clean up his messes - fact.

Again, I care not for the Trump brand, my point was that you had heard of it and in doing so, you confirm it has recognition and value, which seems to be the requirement for a President.

You say first most people, I say "Drain the Swamp", I'm sure you would be the first to agree that there are many people on both sides of the political machine that have gotten far too comfy with themselves, in regards to them specifically, maybe a little collective kick up the arse is needed.

The inspiration part is for the Wider public - Regardless of everything else Trump says or does - do you agree or disagree that he seems to have a genuine and unbridled love for the USA, second only to his love of himself? That love and belief in country is infectious (heh) and does lead to lead to ordinary people doing extraordinary things


My God man, your rationale on this and the metrics you prefer to use are a million miles away from mine. This one spreads so easily undetected and has killed so, so many more. I just have to assume this is a case of DMPAAC.

I agree it's killed more - but I think there are a number of factors related to why that is that are not due to the disease itself.

Apparently the adjusted fatality rate in Wuhan is around 1%, which again, is bad - I don't want people to die - but we aren't talking the end of civilisation here. The Benchmark IMO will be to see what happens in places like NZ, USA, UK etc. in the next coming months.

[Bonez]

Oh dear gutnuthin is at it again. I have attempted to relay my thought processes on Trump to you using words with as few syllables as possible, but you still don't get it :laugh:
I have actually rapidly hated someone and it takes a hell of a lot of time and energy, and I'm sure not going to waste that on Trump. The key word in your sentence there is "some" and sure he has done "some" good work. And a shit ton of bad work.Dinial is a dangerous thing Doc. But it can be overcome with time.

[pritch]

It's an ill wind... I don't normally read Charie Kirk, he's too much the RWNJ, but he's startled a lot of people with this:

"Shameful:

While Richard Burr was receiving daily briefings on the Chinese Virus and reassuring Americans that the government was well equipped to handle the virus

...He was also selling off $1.6 million in stocks which later tanked

Should conservatives be okay with this?"

Richard Burr is a Republican senator representing North Carolina and this story is huge there. At the very least he should be investigated by the Securities Commission. Prosecution for insider trading looks a done deal, but is actually difficult to prove. It can be done though, a Trump supporting congressman has just been jailed for insider trading.

[pritch]

Here we go, another one. Senator Kelly Loefler, one of the most wealthy people in the US Senate ,sold off millions worth of stock following the Senate Corovirus briefing while Trump etc were calling it a hoax.

[sugilite]

Dinial is a dangerous thing Doc. But it can be overcome with time.
What exactly is this "Dinial"? Is it related to that big river in Egypt? :laugh:

[pritch]

What exactly is this "Dinial"? Is it related to that big river in Egypt? :laugh:

Denial can be a wonderful tool. It can give us time to get used to unpalatable ideas or circumstances. When I used to get infringement notices, be they speeding or parking, I used to screw them up and throw them away then forget about them.

A month later, when the reminder came, any unpleasantness was but a distant memory.

[pritch]

When FOX comes gunning for a Republican the person in question must be in deep shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9csqOf4Ktc

[sugilite]

When FOX comes gunning for a Republican the person in question must be in deep shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9csqOf4Ktc

His real crime was probably failing to give Trump his cut :whistle:

[Bonez]

What exactly is this "Dinial"? Is it related to that big river in Egypt? :laugh:Goodness me it's worse than anyone ever thought.:laugh:

[sugilite]

Me too, but for different reasons - The Green voter base IMO comes in 2 flavours: The Communists (who I don't like) and people who would like to see things like Cleaner rivers, less (or none) use of 1080 etc. The latter voters (from what I've seen) having seen what the Greens have (or more specifically have not) done when in power are disillusioned with them.
While I'm not a green voter, yes I place a lot of importance on protecting the environment. The Greens have failed, and so has Labor.



As for Vindictive and premeditated - The NZ Police have been trying to re-interpret the laws for a better part of a Decade and when Firearm owners challenged them, the courts repeatedly bitch-slapped the NZ Police. Pre-meditated because those sets of law changes have been on the books for years - some inside sources have suggested that they were drafted as far back as 2017/2018.

I say Vindictive because the entire 'buy back' process by which you had to watch your personal property get destroyed, whilst flanked by armed Police was ENTIRELY a show of force designed to kowtow those evil Firearm loving Owners.

I did not know that. I agree, that is bloody vindictive and bullying. Disgraceful.



Again, I care not for the Trump brand, my point was that you had heard of it and in doing so, you confirm it has recognition and value, which seems to be the requirement for a President.
Team Hitler, his brand is pretty well known?


You say first most people, I say "Drain the Swamp", I'm sure you would be the first to agree that there are many people on both sides of the political machine that have gotten far too comfy with themselves, in regards to them specifically, maybe a little collective kick up the arse is needed.
OK, STOP right there, I'm not letting you get away with that tripe. Trump has fired many a good person for no other reason than having uncomfortable facts to share with him that do not align with his "uninformed wing it" ways. No lock step = no job. Sure, some needed to go, but many did not. He just needed to put aside his ego and listen.


The inspiration part is for the Wider public - Regardless of everything else Trump says or does - do you agree or disagree that he seems to have a genuine and unbridled love for the USA, second only to his love of himself? That love and belief in country is infectious (heh) and does lead to lead to ordinary people doing extraordinary things
Yes, Trump does have genuine love for the USA. It has provided him a wonderful system that lets the wealthy flout and circumnavigate laws that are largely "for the little people". What is not to love for a man such as Trump.





I agree it's killed more - but I think there are a number of factors related to why that is that are not due to the disease itself.
I'm very grateful that you are not in any position to have any sort of influence on how this virus is to be dealt with.[/QUOTE]


Apparently the adjusted fatality rate in Wuhan is around 1%, which again, is bad - I don't want people to die - but we aren't talking the end of civilisation here. The Benchmark IMO will be to see what happens in places like NZ, USA, UK etc. in the next coming months.
You are surely kidding are you not? You are seriously giving weight to stats being released by the same mob that is saying the US military are the ones that spread the virus? You sure seem to cherry pick the stats from where ever - when it suits your position.


Goodness me it's worse than anyone ever thought.:laugh:
I know right, and all it would take is the cursory use of spell check to decipher your ramblings before posting. :rolleyes:

[pritch]

Trump has fired many a good person for no other reason than having uncomfortable facts to share with him that do not align with his "uninformed wing it" ways. No lock step = no job. Sure, some needed to go, but many did not. He just needed to put aside his ego and listen.


When Trump first floated his "Drain the swamp" rhetoric I thought he meant the lobbyists. Those who ensure that almost all of the politicians on both sides of the house are bought and paid for by the various interest groups: the insurance companies, big pharmaceutical companies, firearms manufacturers and the NRA, the Jewish lobby, etc etc. But no, he meant the career civil servants, the diplomatic corps and so on.

He disestablished the Centre for Disease Control and the people who headed that up resigned. He cut funding to the CDC offices in the various departments that had their own people. Just lately he said he didn't know this had happened, but he is on tape answering an earlier question to the effect that he had done it because he didn't like paying people to sit around waiting for something to happen.

There's a seemingly never ending series of appearances currently, he can't have his hate rallies to boost his ego so he goes in front of the cameras with some of his nodding sycophants to get his fix.

His primary response to the crisis is to fuck with the numbers. I feel sorry for the Yanks - the ones who didn't vote for him.

[husaberg]

When Trump first floated his "Drain the swamp" rhetoric I thought he meant the lobbyists. Those who ensure that almost all of the politicians on both sides of the house are bought and paid for by the various interest groups: the insurance companies, big pharmaceutical companies, firearms manufacturers and the NRA, the Jewish lobby, etc etc. But no, he meant the career civil servants, the diplomatic corps and so on.

He disestablished the Centre for Disease Control and the people who headed that up resigned. He cut funding to the CDC offices in the various departments that had their own people. Just lately he said he didn't know this had happened, but he is on tape answering an earlier question to the effect that he had done it because he didn't like paying people to sit around waiting for something to happen.

There's a seemingly never ending series of appearances currently, he can't have his hate rallies to boost his ego so he goes in front of the cameras with some of his nodding sycophants to get his fix.

His primary response to the crisis is to fuck with the numbers. I feel sorry for the Yanks - the ones who didn't vote for him.

To support Trumps frail narcissism, he needs to ensure he surround himself constantly with sycophants.
Drain the swamp means fire all "never a trumpers"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTTj7vc71io
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6opwNSdNyI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqKhRcpktU&t=165s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BNAywFenKE 344959

[Katman]

....the Jewish lobby.....

Now if oldrider had said that, the berk would be posting pictures of Goebbels by now.

[husaberg]

Now if oldrider had said that, the berk would be posting pictures of Goebbels by now.

Really? Are you now that detached from reality steve.
You notice how pritch mentioned, all the other lobby groups rather than just solely focusing on one, over an over again in an endless posting of entirely antisemitic posts like Oldracistnonrider does.
What is interesting is, you seem to deem it less offensive for oldracist to post Nazi propaganda, than for him to be to be called an antisemite, or to have Goebbels pics posted.

[Bonez]

Now if oldrider had said that, the berk would be posting pictures of Goebbels by now.Yip and all those videos the Burk posted are from outfits that were anti Trump prior to the last US presidentual elections. So hardly credible.

[sugilite]

Yip and all those videos the Burk posted are from outfits that were anti Trump prior to the last US presidentual elections. So hardly credible.
You mean the videos that show Trump contradicting himself (Lying) time and time again? But what, because it is CNN or whoever that is showing the videos, it is not credible? Even though it is TRUMP himself who is the one doing the talking on camera? That is beyond shooting the messenger kind of dumb. That is classic gutnuthin dumb right there:laugh:

[husaberg]

You mean the videos that show Trump contradicting himself (Lying) time and time again? But what, because it is CNN or whoever that is showing the videos, it is not credible? Even though it is TRUMP himself who is the one doing the talking on camera? That is beyond shooting the messenger kind of dumb. That is classic gutnuthin dumb right there:laugh:

You are wasting your time just add him to the ignore list
Hes never likely even heard of the FCC.https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/files/broadcasting_false_information.pdf
I have been known to dismiss information based on its source completely, but only it when its essentually a opinion piece from a source owned and controlled by a government organisation known to have no such laws controlling the contents integrity and is essentially a propaganda organisation, a stupid YouTube channel, disgraced fraud, recycled Nazi like Oldracist and katflap regularly post.
Scummy summed him up the best it also IMO apply describes Oldracistnonrider posts

Katman 'evidence' = vague generalisations and obscure physical estimates, often gleened from agenda-focussed internet sites.
Some people would call it gossip. But I'm not that nasty

[Bonez]

You are wasting your time just add him to the ignore liststsAWESOME but you will have a peak to xsee what I've posted anyway.:tugger: And if I get quoted you will see them any way.:bleh:

[mashman]

You mean the videos that show Trump contradicting himself (Lying) time and time again? But what, because it is CNN or whoever that is showing the videos, it is not credible? Even though it is TRUMP himself who is the one doing the talking on camera? That is beyond shooting the messenger kind of dumb. That is classic gutnuthin dumb right there:laugh:

He's a politician. Why are you singling him out........ Your confidence is his job and nothing else... same as the rest of 'em. I watched a funny thing this morning. It went something like this:

Media: So you say that the Chinese are to blame for the Coronavirus, because you said it is a Chinese virus.

Trump: No. The virus came from China.

Media: Some would say that it is racist to say that the virus came from China.

Trump: Who said it?

Media: Oh, no one, but some would say that it is racist to say that the virus came from China.

Trump: The virus started in China.

Media: Would you say that it is a racist position to take also.

Trump: What? To say that the virus came from China?

Media: Yes.

Trump: Time to answer questions from elsewhere...

but no, the hounddog media kept on trying to get him to say something about racism etc... Trump doesn't like CNN. CNN doesn't like Trump. CNN are trying to put words in Trumps mouth. It really doesn't get any more obvious. It doesn't stop him from being a liar like, but it does show how stupid the general public are :cool:

[sugilite]

He's a politician. Why are you singling him out........ Your confidence is his job and nothing else... same as the rest of 'em. I watched a funny thing this morning. It went something like this:

Media: So you say that the Chinese are to blame for the Coronavirus, because you said it is a Chinese virus.

Trump: No. The virus came from China.

Media: Some would say that it is racist to say that the virus came from China.

Trump: Who said it?

Media: Oh, no one, but some would say that it is racist to say that the virus came from China.

Trump: The virus started in China.

Media: Would you say that it is a racist position to take also.

Trump: What? To say that the virus came from China?

Media: Yes.

Trump: Time to answer questions from elsewhere...

but no, the hounddog media kept on trying to get him to say something about racism etc... Trump doesn't like CNN. CNN doesn't like Trump. CNN are trying to put words in Trumps mouth. It really doesn't get any more obvious. It doesn't stop him from being a liar like, but it does show how stupid the general public are :cool:

Just to be clear, I was not talking about that video. I have already stated in this very thread that I think Trump being roasted over over referring to it as a virus from China is absurd.

[mashman]

Just to be clear, I was not talking about that video. I have already stated in this very thread that I think Trump being roasted over over referring to it as a virus from China is absurd.

I know... but it ain't just the virus. The Russian things and the impeachment spring to mind. The media are bought and paid for and are spreading lies. I call it treason. I can handle the liars so long as they're not being treasonous, because I expect money grabbing cunts to inhabit those old halls.

[sugilite]

You are wasting your time just add him to the ignore list

Nah, deciphering his posts has replaced my daily Sudoku game. He and arsestinger are the only ones I treat like I do, because both are self professed trolls, and both are so shit at it :laugh:

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=17ne6-ypj_4&feature=emb_logo

“This is a pandemic,” President Donald Trump said at a March 17 press conference. “I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.”
which is amazing considering his prior statements.

Jan. 22: “We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China. We have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.” — Trump in a CNBC interview.

Jan. 30: “We think we have it very well under control. We have very little problem in this country at this moment — five — and those people are all recuperating successfully. But we’re working very closely with China and other countries, and we think it’s going to have a very good ending for us … that I can assure you.” — Trump in a speech in Michigan.

Feb. 10: “Now, the virus that we’re talking about having to do — you know, a lot of people think that goes away in April with the heat — as the heat comes in. Typically, that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases — 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape now.” — Trump at the White House. (See our item “Will the New Coronavirus ‘Go Away’ in April?“)

Feb. 14: “There’s a theory that, in April, when it gets warm — historically, that has been able to kill the virus. So we don’t know yet; we’re not sure yet. But that’s around the corner.” — Trump in speaking to National Border Patrol Council members.

Feb. 23: “We have it very much under control in this country.” — Trump in speaking to reporters.

Feb. 24: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!” — Trump in a tweet.

Feb. 26: “So we’re at the low level. As they get better, we take them off the list, so that we’re going to be pretty soon at only five people. And we could be at just one or two people over the next short period of time. So we’ve had very good luck.” — Trump at a White House briefing.

Feb. 26: “And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” — Trump at a press conference.

Feb. 26: “I think every aspect of our society should be prepared. I don’t think it’s going to come to that, especially with the fact that we’re going down, not up. We’re going very substantially down, not up.” — Trump at a press conference, when asked if “U.S. schools should be preparing for a coronavirus spreading.”

Feb. 27: “It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear.” — Trump at a White House meeting with African American leaders.

Feb. 29: “And I’ve gotten to know these professionals. They’re incredible. And everything is under control. I mean, they’re very, very cool. They’ve done it, and they’ve done it well. Everything is really under control.” — Trump in a speech at the CPAC conference outside Washington, D.C.

March 4: “[W]e have a very small number of people in this country [infected]. We have a big country. The biggest impact we had was when we took the 40-plus people [from a cruise ship]. … We brought them back. We immediately quarantined them. But you add that to the numbers. But if you don’t add that to the numbers, we’re talking about very small numbers in the United States.” — Trump at a White House meeting with airline CEOs.

March 4: “Well, I think the 3.4% is really a false number.” — Trump in an interview on Fox News, referring to the percentage of diagnosed COVID-19 patients worldwide who had died, as reported by the World Health Organization. (See our item “Trump and the Coronavirus Death Rate.”)

March 7: “No, I’m not concerned at all. No, we’ve done a great job with it.” — Trump, when asked by reporters if he was concerned about the arrival of the coronavirus in the Washington, D.C., area.

March 9: “So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!” — Trump in a tweet.

March 10: “And we’re prepared, and we’re doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away.” — Trump after meeting with Republican senators.

A day later, on March 11, the WHO declared the global outbreak a pandemic.

[Bonez]

Nah, deciphering his posts has replaced my daily Sudoku game. He and arsestinger are the only ones I treat like I do, because both are self professed trolls, and both are so shit at it :laugh:You poor dear.

[Bonez]

I know... but it ain't just the virus. The Russian things and the impeachment spring to mind. The media are bought and paid for and are spreading lies. I call it treason. I can handle the liars so long as they're not being treasonous, because I expect money grabbing cunts to inhabit those old halls.
I dought Dr Salulite will respond to this post with out prompting 1 2 3........

[sugilite]

I dought Dr Salulite will respond to this post with out prompting 1 2 3........
No need, Mashman has articulated his thoughts very well, and I accept his position and agree with a fair bit of it no less. In other words he has great capacity for critical thinking and presents it well. But as usual, you gutnuthin :laugh:

[Bonez]

No need, Mashman has articulated his thoughts very well, and I accept his position and agree with a fair bit of it no less. In other words he has great capacity for critical thinking and presents it well. But as usual, you gutnuthin :laugh:You say that a lot Doc but fail critical thinking on a lot of your posts in this thread.

[sugilite]

You say that a lot Doc but fail critical thinking on a lot of your posts in this thread.
Can you even string one coherent sentence together?

[mashman]

Can you even string one coherent sentence together?

Either you did that on purpose... or you just missed that you just proved his point.

[husaberg]

Either you did that on purpose... or you just missed that you just proved his point.

Lets put it to the vote Mr 0.56%

[Katman]

Lets put it to the vote Mr 0.56%

What percentage did you get?

[husaberg]

What percentage did you get?

I voted for someone with a clue, unlike you clearly...............
But dont let my lack of grandstanding prior to the election that i was a far smarter political mind and that my ideas were what the voters clearly wanted, sway your opinion as to why your point is rather stupid.

[Katman]

I voted for someone with a clue

I didn't ask who you voted for.

What percentage of the votes did you get?

[mashman]

I didn't ask who you voted for.

What percentage of the votes did you get?

Holy shit is he still crapping on about that :killingme. I got more votes than people I spoke with/to given the time allotted for an independent candidate. I was quite impressed really. Had someone say that anything over 100 was a pretty good result. Got more votes than most Social Democrat reps. Also had Greg O'Connor MP mention that I sounded very much like Jacinda... sprinkle in some encouraging comments at the after parties, and I guess it isn't surprising that I got more votes than people I had spoken to/with, and more than some established party reps who had been campaigning for much longer than the 4 weeks I was allowed.

All in all I thought I did a fucking good job with zero backing and zero resources and next to zero time. I might even do it again.

[husaberg]

I didn't ask who you voted for.

What percentage of the votes did you get?

I didnt say i stood, so your question is as stupid now as it was two posts ago now isn't it.
Which is a pattern, you all to often repeat.
Thrill all KB again with a repeat of your previous stupid question..........
It makes a change, from the other stupid conspiracy stuff you continue to post.

[ellipsis]

AWESOME but you will have a peak to xsee what I've posted anyway.:tugger: And if I get quoted you will see them any way.:bleh:

...do you sip red wine, apply lipstick, wear a miniskirt to fit a six foot long, frame, whilst you post...it sure sounds like it, at times...:banana::banana::banana:...sounds like fun...

[pritch]

Some people like to complain about coverage of Trump. The most devastating coverage of Trump though comes from his own mouth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gJgmkWJ6es

[Berries]

Had someone say that anything over 100 was a pretty good result.
100 more than the person in second is good.

Otherwise it is a message.

[mashman]

100 more than the person in second is good.

Otherwise it is a message.

heh... nah, that's fuckin' scarey.

I prefer to think of it as an option.

[husaberg]

100 more than the person in second is good.

Otherwise it is a message.

the message was he was 22,000 votes short
he did beat one though by 102 votes.

Richard Goode has just the one policy to push this election - the legalising of marijuana.
"While we haven't got more than 0.5 per cent lately, we're holding up the banner every election and are keeping the issue in your face."

[Bonez]

...do you sip red wine, apply lipstick, wear a miniskirt to fit a six foot long, frame, whilst you post...it sure sounds like it, at times...:banana::banana::banana:...sounds like fun...
My goodness you'd better go see a therapist about those fantasies you are having. And thanks for quoting my post btw. The Burk and pritch will see it.

[TheDemonLord]

While I'm not a green voter, yes I place a lot of importance on protecting the environment. The Greens have failed, and so has Labor.

Which is good for me, but in many ways is a shame, I feel there are some good policies that could be generated by an environmentally focused party that wasn't a bunch of raving Marxists.


I did not know that. I agree, that is bloody vindictive and bullying. Disgraceful.

Yep, It's things like that which IMO betray their real intentions, and it was never about making NZ safer. I'll happily admit that it's conjecture on my part.


Team Hitler, his brand is pretty well known?

Indeed, certain groups are almost pathological about reminding us of them, like the Church loves to remind us about the Devil, one wonders if there might be an ulterior motive...


OK, STOP right there, I'm not letting you get away with that tripe. Trump has fired many a good person for no other reason than having uncomfortable facts to share with him that do not align with his "uninformed wing it" ways. No lock step = no job. Sure, some needed to go, but many did not. He just needed to put aside his ego and listen.

So, Off-hand, the only one that I can think of where I disagree would be General Matthis - however the rest, there's something interesting in there - I'm going to take a small tangent across the Pond to reference Pritti Patel vs the Home Office - Namely that in the case where the Civil Servant cannot work with the Elected official, the convention is that the Civil Servant seeks to be re-assigned. I bring this up because there's an importantly principle here:

Civil Servants are not accountable to the Electorate. The President is.

They may not like how he does things, they may advise, disagree, protest etc. but at the end of the day, they have 2 options: 1 Carry out the will of the electorate (manifested by the Democratically elected representative) or 2: Fuck off.

And where they fail to do either, Trump has no option BUT to fire them.


Yes, Trump does have genuine love for the USA. It has provided him a wonderful system that lets the wealthy flout and circumnavigate laws that are largely "for the little people". What is not to love for a man such as Trump.

Regardless of the reason (namely - I don't entirely agree with the premise, I think his love of the USA is deeper than that, but hey) - His patriotism IS a key factor - the only person I can think of from the Democrat front runners who I'd consider to be truly patriotic would be Tulsi - and the proof of this was by how the Democratic party shafted her.


I'm very grateful that you are not in any position to have any sort of influence on how this virus is to be dealt with

I think you misunderstand my position here. My critique is that certain groups (who might seek to profit from running 24hr coverage about our impending doom) have hyped this epidemic massively, this in-turn has resulted in what will likely be severe economic consequences that IMO are caused more from the hysteria about the Virus than the impact of the Virus itself.

I'm quite happy with precautionary measures such as shutting the Borders etc. However I think that there has been a definitive over-reaction, that will have long-term consequences.


You are surely kidding are you not? You are seriously giving weight to stats being released by the same mob that is saying the US military are the ones that spread the virus? You sure seem to cherry pick the stats from where ever - when it suits your position.

It's more about what would they gain from lying about that Stat?

It's also not outside the realms of possibility if you consider the people in the initial spread of the virus who contract it are likely also those with weaker immune systems or suffering from pre-existing conditions and so are also the ones most likely to die from it. So an initially high fatality rate (around 3-4% in places) slowly settles down to an overall fatality rate of around 1%.

Again, to be clear - people dying is not good, nor am I trying to make light of it.

[TheDemonLord]

Really? Are you now that detached from reality steve.
You notice how pritch mentioned, all the other lobby groups rather than just solely focusing on one, over an over again in an endless posting of entirely antisemitic posts like Oldracistnonrider does.
What is interesting is, you seem to deem it less offensive for oldracist to post Nazi propaganda, than for him to be to be called an antisemite, or to have Goebbels pics posted.

Katman has a very valid point.

Notice how Pritch focused only on the Lobby group that have a negative reputation, and by extension the 'Jewish Lobby' is included in that.

It's funny how the Left is really starting to Hate on Jews, It's especially funny given some of their rhetoric of late.

[oldrider]

Stockman: The Crony Capitalist Thieves Are Back - :whistle: - https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/stockman-crony-capitalist-thieves-are-back - :corn:

[Stylo]

Some people like to complain about coverage of Trump. The most devastating coverage of Trump though comes from his own mouth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gJgmkWJ6es

Yep, why be thought a fool when you can make it plain to everyone the easy way and just, say it yourself and erase all doubt . Again and again .

And, he'll do it all again tomorrow .

[oldrider]

Dr Anthony Fauci is now the President of the United States? - :scratch: - https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/03/23/dr-anthony-fauci-is-now-the-president-of-the-united-states/ - :corn:

[oldrider]

Mike Pompeo Admits COVID-19 Is a “Live Exercise,” Trump Retorts “I Wish You Would Have Told Us” - https://www.globalresearch.ca/secretary-state-mike-pompeo-admits-covid-19-live-exercise-president-trump-comments-i-wish-you-would-have-told-us/5707223 - who actually has their hands on the wheel here? :facepalm:

[Bonez]

Yep, why be thought a fool when you can make it plain to everyone the easy way and just, say it yourself and erase all doubt . Again and again .

And, he'll do it all again tomorrow .Your are right. pritch does that on a daily basis.:yawn:

[Bonez]

Mike Pompeo Admits COVID-19 Is a “Live Exercise,” Trump Retorts “I Wish You Would Have Told Us” - https://www.globalresearch.ca/secretary-state-mike-pompeo-admits-covid-19-live-exercise-president-trump-comments-i-wish-you-would-have-told-us/5707223 - who actually has their hands on the wheel here? :facepalm:That certainly puts a whole new light on things. Like how much of the Covid thing is real news and which is fabricated.:angry:

[Viking01]

That certainly puts a whole new light on things. Like how much of the Covid thing is real news and which is fabricated.:angry:

Look, you know the rules. If it's from a Chinese (or a Russian) source, it's fake news (fabricated).

And if it's from Mike Pompeo (a self confessed liar), he'll tell you when he's lying. Otherwise, he's telling the truth. Honest.

[Katman]

Hey, it's not like they haven't done it before.

https://www.businessinsider.com/military-government-secret-experiments-biological-chemical-weapons-2016-9?r=AU&IR=T

[husaberg]

Mike Pompeo Admits COVID-19 Is a “Live Exercise,” Trump Retorts “I Wish You Would Have Told Us” - https://www.globalresearch.ca/secretary-state-mike-pompeo-admits-covid-19-live-exercise-president-trump-comments-i-wish-you-would-have-told-us/5707223 - who actually has their hands on the wheel here? :facepalm:



“The Chinese government was the first to know of this risk to the world. And that puts a special obligation to make sure that data gets to our scientists, our professionals,” Pompeo told reporters at the White House.
“This is not about retribution,” Pompeo said. “We’re in a live exercise here to get this right. We need to make sure that even today, the data sets that are available to every country, including data sets that are made available to the Chinese communist party, are made available to the whole world. It’s an imperative to keep people safe.


Trump said in the back ground and nodded "should have let us know."
Here is a hint if the subject is China not sharing data. now why in all probability might he say "should have let us know"

[Stylo]

Mike Pompeo Admits COVID-19 Is a “Live Exercise,” Trump Retorts “I Wish You Would Have Told Us” - https://www.globalresearch.ca/secretary-state-mike-pompeo-admits-covid-19-live-exercise-president-trump-comments-i-wish-you-would-have-told-us/5707223 - who actually has their hands on the wheel here? :facepalm:

It won't be Donald. The lying idiot will chewing into his number 3 filet'o'fish MacDonald's burger . While watching Fox news.

Give me a break.

[pritch]

Dr Anthony Fauci is now the President of the United States? - :scratch: - https://blog.nomorefakenews.com/2020/03/23/dr-anthony-fauci-is-now-the-president-of-the-united-states/ - :corn:

That's dangerous. People who publicly correct Trump tend to disappear from view. Dr Fauci has had to do it several times now and it's a wonder he's survived this far. If Trump sees an article like that though, Fauci will be a goner.

[Viking01]

It’s not so surprising that the Covid 19 Support bill has become bogged down in the Senate with partisan squabbling over what other unrelated items could be shoe-horned into a “must pass” bill.

Joe Citizen could have some good reason to feel aggrieved over the lack of concern and urgency being shown by their politicians. Especially when Don has declared “war” on Covid 19, and states that he has invoked the Defense Production Act.

“The federal government will soon rush production of masks, ventilators and other medical equipment that health professionals worry has been in short supply.”

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/03/19/a_changed_trump_declares_war_on_coronavirus_142705 .html

But today, we find out that it's a "war on Covid 19”, but it's not a "war". And that the Defense Act has not actually been invoked, and that no orders have been placed for the supply of items like masks and respirators in the interim.

Why ? Because to do so under the Defense Act would be "socialist". Seriously ?

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/23/21191003/coronavirus-trump-defense-production-act-venezuela

And to do so, the US Federal government would have to be seen to take some action to (say) prevent price gouging. Or to help direct equipment to the areas of greatest need (as opposed to areas willing to pay the highest price).

Surely the CDC pointed out a potential shortage of ventilators earlier ? Well, they did - 3 years ago, precisely for an event as a pandemic. But, in the meantime, well, you know, funding cuts.

https://fortune.com/2020/03/17/coronavirus-ventilator-shortage/

But fear not. Chinese factories are now busy 24/7 building ventilators for the US market.

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/chinese-factories-working-247-build-ventilators-italy-new-york

[pritch]

I'm bloody pleased I don't live in the USA, they have been backwards in a lot of ways for a long time now, but under Trump it's just crazy. Literally. There are crackpots appearing on FOX, including Texas Lt Governor Dan Patrick, who says grandparents should sacrifice themselves so the grandkids can have a better economy. And Trump watches this crap.

There is another dude, name escapes me, has a record of making predictions about the economy which are usually way wide of the mark, but Trump likes him, he's on Fox after all. He is not actually an economist but he's saying people need to get back to work. So of course Trump is now considering ending the US lockdown for Easter.

Who needs scientific experts when you've got FOX? :whistle:

[Viking01]

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-c-oronavirus-task-force-press-briefing/

A bit of a long read. You make your own judgement.

[ellipsis]

...all the important parts of the world have been ruled by despots for as long as history has provided reference...despots usually come with a mental aberration that infects a nation, or loose confederations of like minded tribes...nothing has changed...revel in your viking mindset and genes... I do...:niceone:

[Viking01]

Don,
Look, I know you're busy giving press conferences and generally keeping the US ship of state from ending up on the rocks, but if you get some spare time, could you just have a little look at this one :

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/03/this-is-a-massive-scandal-trump-fda-grants-drug-company-exclusive-claim-on-promising-coronavirus-drug.html

It might all be fake news. It's so hard to tell these days.

[husaberg]

https://abcnews.go.com/International/russia-reporting-covid-19-cases-cover/story?id=69717763

[oldrider]

Behind the scenes of the Moon Landing of Apollo 11 directed by Stanley Kubrick in 1969.

Document classified Top Secret since 50 years… until now? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oQG1wBZa78&feature=emb_logo - A little distraction away from the Corona-Virus. - :corn:

If this mission ever truly is proved to be fake I will be as pissed as possible - I so want it to be true! - But they wouldn't lie to us would they? - :scratch:

5 minute video <iframe width="293" height="165" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5oQG1wBZa78" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Grumph]

Not surprising given Trump tried to buy the exclusive use of a promising German anti viral drug.

The sharing info with China thing is actually funny as you'd wonder how little Barr knows. The CDC used to have quite a paid staff in China keeping track of any new viruses which appeared.
They of course have been cut by this administration.

Trump's taking quite a gamble. Will the loss of life be big enough to make it obvious he made a mistake - or will prioritising the economy over people make his base happy ?

Watching, you'd have to wonder how long the two experts standing beside him can take it before they walk - or get fired.

[oldrider]

Rockefeller Blue Print For Police State Triggered By Pandemic Exposed? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4Wo1XZQV2A&feature=emb_logo - Are/have we (the world) been conned? - :confused:


<iframe width="293" height="165" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/x4Wo1XZQV2A" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Viking01]

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/25/us-senates-final-stimulus-bill-why-it-wont-be-enough/

[Edit]

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/stimulus-bill-the-fed-and-treasurys-slush-fund-is-actually-4-trillion/

[mashman]

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/25/us-senates-final-stimulus-bill-why-it-wont-be-enough/

Nice explanation in many ways, although blaming Trump kinda almost nearly takes the shine off that. They have 4 weeks to come up with more money. I'm running out of fingers counting the number of times the US government has sat late one night and signed trillions into the economy for the next day. Makes one wonder why people are so twitchy.

[jasonu]

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/03/25/us-senates-final-stimulus-bill-why-it-wont-be-enough/

[Edit]

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/stimulus-bill-the-fed-and-treasurys-slush-fund-is-actually-4-trillion/

I'll gladly accept my $2400 although it won't make a bean of difference to my over all position. It'll go straight in the bank and I'll likely squander it another day.

[oldrider]

Simply a script from Hollywood or a true life diabolically clever plan? - :shifty:

Dare yourself to watch this video and make up your own mind of it's relevance to the world? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=UCGkd9hNbc0&feature=emb_logo - It can not hurt you if you don't want it to - You are in charge!

[husaberg]

Simply a script from Hollywood or a true life diabolically clever plan? - :shifty:

Dare yourself to watch this video and make up your own mind of it's relevance to the world? - https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=UCGkd9hNbc0&feature=emb_logo - It can not hurt you if you don't want it to - You are in charge!

Blinded by hatred, such as you are, maybe
Lets look at the posters other videos do you notice anything in common?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYaLxbD7Rix3p1rdGY3IMjg
People are dying from a disease, yet here is you attempting to use this tragedy to spread malicious antisemitic hate.

[Katman]

Blinded by hatred, such as you are, maybe
Lets look at the posters other videos do you notice anything in common?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYaLxbD7Rix3p1rdGY3IMjg
People are dying from a disease, yet here is you attempting to use this tragedy to spread malicious antisemitic hate.

It is amusing to see you frothing each time though.

[husaberg]

It is amusing to see you frothing each time though.
thats just cause you always fantisize about dudes giving dudes blowjobs stevo
As always, Your attachment to grasping at straws, is still clearly tighter than your grasp on reality.
Just maybe if you and oldie loosened the grip on your dutch rudder some blood would be left for your heads. rather than your tall tales.

[ellipsis]

thats just cause you always fantisize about dudes giving dudes blowjobs stevo
As always, Your attachment to grasping at straws, is still clearly tighter than your grasp on reality.
Just maybe if you and oldie loosened the grip on your dutch rudder some blood would be left for your heads. rather than your tall tales.

...apart from posting MSM shit and clips from dubious sources you seem to dwell on phallus projections and innuendo... what's your true purpose...lack of social interaction or too much internet time...same thing, maybe?...

...I am concerned for your mental well being...only as KB member tho...we must look after each other in these troubled times...well... maybe...

[oldrider]

Why does that power/success story have to be negative and full of "hatred"? - It tells more about the eye of the beholder.

When I was born Israel was not even in existence not even a state until 1948. - Why does it intrest me? - Our lives run a parallel course.

If that story is true it should be as a celebration - 72 years of existence and now a vital world power - in less than one lifetime? - Fantastic achievement absolutely unparalleled!

Piss off with your constant barrage of hate.

[mashman]

Why does that power/success story have to be negative and full of "hatred"? - It tells more about the eye of the beholder.

When I was born Israel was not even in existence not even a state until 1948. - Why does it intrest me? - Our lives run a parallel course.

If that story is true it should be as a celebration - 72 years of existence and now a vital world power - in less than one lifetime? - Fantastic achievement absolutely unparalleled!

Piss off with your constant barrage of hate.

... but but but, evidence from someone who wasn't there that talked to someone who was there > direct observation of someone who was actively looking. Usually that'd qualify you as having some exceptionally valid points of concern, but dude, can you move past the "make your own mind up" stuff, and move straight onto MK'ing the silly fucker :laugh:

[mashman]

The Fed's Cure Risks Being Worse Than the Disease (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/feds-cure-risks-being-worse-110052807.html)

"This scheme essentially merges the Fed and Treasury into one organization. So, meet your new Fed chairman, Donald J. Trump."

[Viking01]

Well, despite the protests of some, the US CARES (Covid 19 Relief) bill has been quickly passed into law within the past two days:

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/489885-trump-signs-2t-coronavirus-relief-package

Despite one or two US representatives voting it down (in the House of Reps and Senate), the two parties were suitably well organised to ensure that there was sufficient physical presence still ready and able to vote it in.

No doubt, there will have been a few "sounds of relief" when it was finally passed.

No - not from the average citizen and their families, promised the princely one-off sum of $1,200 (to be received some time within the next few weeks), but instead from the various business sector groups.

Small to medium businesses - who employ the majority of the US work force - will no doubt be grateful for some financial assistance.

https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/27/cares-act-stimulus-package-covid-19/

https://www.globalresearch.ca/senate-coronavirus-relief-package-must-stopped/5707727

Certain large industry groups - such as cruise lines, airlines, retail and hotel - have been granted financial assistance.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/coronavirus-bill-may-suffer-further-delay-after-gop-senators-demand-fix-massive-drafting

But yet again, it's the financial institutions that will receive by far the "lions share" of the largesse being created and allocated. And their portion is not restricted to the $450 billion amount specified (i.e. instead up-to 4 trillion dollars, due to the power of leveraging).

It appears that the Repo process - that was in progress since September 2019 - was not sufficient to do the job, so the Covid 19 Relief Act is being used as the vehicle to achieve the desired outcome.

You can read the two articles below to find out how the corresponding up-to 4 trillion dollar amount is likely to be used by such institutions (i.e. to help remove toxic assets off major bank balance sheets, just as they did in 2008-2009).

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/stimulus-bill-the-fed-and-treasurys-slush-fund-is-actually-4-trillion/

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/stimulus-bill-the-fed-and-treasurys-slush-fund-is-actually-4-trillion/

None of this has any impact on reducing unemployment, or the recovery of "Main Street" and the productive economy.

But it has been great for the US share market, and as you might have noticed, it has been surging again the last three days as more details of the bill became available.

https://www.rt.com/business/484057-us-stock-markets-rescue/

Please do note:

- The US Treasury (ultimately the US tax payer) - and not the Fed -is responsible for under-writing the up-to four trillion dollar amount. Why not the Fed ? Because while the Fed's banks could do so, they don't want to accept the credit risk.

- There is an amendment to the Sunshine Act - Essentially to help suppress FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) requests aimed at finding out which industries were the recipients of either loans or grants (applicable for the duration of the Covid 19 emergency). So much for transparency.

Did the average US citizen just get shafted by their politicians, irrespective of the team involved? You can make up your own mind.

What else?

1. Don has finally invoked the Defence Production Act, and contracts have been issued to GM to start building ventilators. The media has been doing its bit to help the situation (not).

https://sputniknews.com/us/202003271078734558-white-house-trump-signs-defense-production-act-ordering-general-motors-to-produce-ventilators/

It will be interesting to watch"hot spots" like New York over the next two weeks, especially after Governor Cuomo had earlier pleaded with Trump for greater assistance:

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/nyc-area-sees-covid-19-attack-rate-5x-higher-than-anywhere-in-u-s-feds/2341275/

2. It was decided that EPA regulations on emissions and pollution could be relaxed for the duration of the Covid 19 emergency. And that the affected industries would self-monitor and self-regulate.

https://sputniknews.com/us/202003271078735866-lawless-epa-suspends-environmental-regulation-enforcement-in-us-amid-covid-19-pandemic/

3. Authorisation for call-up of up to 1 million military reservists has been issued.

https://www.rt.com/usa/484333-us-military-reservists-coronavirus/

Just in case US citizens thought that the National Guard was present just to maintain "law and order" , Vox issued this helpful article on their actual purpose:

https://www.vox.com/2020/3/24/21188088/coronavirus-national-guard-testing-food-cleaning-martial

Interesting times ahead for the US.


[Edit]

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2020/03/the-coronavirus-stimulus-bill-is-a-2-trillion-slush-fund-for-washington-cronies.html

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/484307-capitalism-bankruptcy-buybacks-fail/

[pritch]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/presidents-character-unequal-task/608743/

[mashman]

A message from DJT's mates, Q. Who would know better eh?

------------------------------------------------------------

A person(s) value:
1. vote
2. monetary value (tax contribution)
3.
Why is 'free thought' ridiculed, challenged, and threatened when a person is opposed to the 'mainstream-narrative'?
[2] remains fixed (degree allowable by 'economic recession/expansion')
[1] remains a variable
[1] dependent on a 'controlled' system of information dissemination
What happens when 90% of the media is controlled/owned by (6) corporations?
What happens when those same corporations are operated and controlled by a political ideology?
What happens when the news is no longer free from bias?
What happens when the news is no longer reliable and independent?
What happens when the news is no longer trustworthy?
What happens when the news simply becomes an extension/arm of a political party?
Fact becomes fiction?
Fiction becomes fact?
When does news become propaganda?
Identity creation?
How does the average person, who is under constant financial stress (by design), find time to research and discern fact v fiction?
Majority of people more prone to believe someone in power sitting behind a big brand ‘news’ name?
Do people [human psyche] tend to follow the ‘majority/mainstream viewpoint’ in fear of being isolated and/or shunned?
‘Mainstream’ is used for a reason [dominate trend in opinion].
[If majority of people believe ‘x’ then ‘x’ must be validated / true]
Why do ‘mainstream’ media heads, within different orgs, always use the same keywords and/or catch phrases?
Coordinated? By who? Outside entity providing instructions?
Do they count on the fact that people [human psyche] are more prone to believe something if heard over-and-over again by different ‘trusted’ sources?
Do ‘echo chamber’ tactics provide validation / credibility to the topic/point being discussed?
Threat to intellectual freedom?
Would control over[of] these institutions/organizations allow for the mass control of a populations viewpoint re: a desired topic?
Read again – digest.
Would control over[of] these institutions/organizations allow for the mass control of a populations viewpoint re: a desired topic?
Logical thinking.
Why, after the election of 2016, did [D]’s and media corps jumpstart a [coordinated & planned] divisive blitz intended to create falsehoods re: illegitimacy of election, character assassination of POTUS through sexism, racism, every other ‘ism’?
Pre/post 2016 election?
Why were violent [masked] terror orgs such as Antifa immediately created/funded?
Why were these orgs tasked w/ immediate intimidation/shut down of any pro-POTUS rally[s] and/or events?
Why were marches immediately organized to counter and silence pro-POTUS rally[s] and/or events?
Why were marches immediately organized which divided people into sex/gender, race, [ism]?
When you control the levers of news dissemination, you control the narrative.
Control of the narrative = power
When you are blind, what do you see?
They want you divided.
Divided by religion.
Divided by sex.
Divided by political affiliation.
Divided by class.
When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those ‘different’ from you, not those responsible [controllers].
Divided you are weak.
Divided you pose no threat to their control.
When ‘non-dogmatic’ information becomes FREE & TRANSPARENT it becomes a threat to those who attempt to control the narrative and/or stable [livestock kept – sheep].
When you are awake, you stand on the outside of the stable (‘group-think’ collective), and have ‘free thought’.
"Free thought" is a philosophical viewpoint which holds that positions regarding truth should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, revelation, or dogma.
THIS REPRESENTS A CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.
Q

[pritch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA8HWkxA9rc

[Bonez]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA8HWkxA9rcPretty dumb posiing a ling with no discription of any sort Who knows we might get some malware or for goodness some sort of virus.......(Dots added for effect):eek:

Not that personnally would've clicked on due to your prior history of posting crap.

Bet you peak at this post.......

[pritch]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jared-kushner-slumlord-millionaire-cant-evict-the-virus

[oldrider]

Coronavirus Response Is a Central Planning Nightmare | Guest: Rep. Thomas Massie | Ep 58 - https://freethepeople.org/kol-coronavirus-response-is-a-central-planning-nightmare-guest-rep-thomas-massie-ep-58/ - :yes: - Interesting guy actually (IMO)


<iframe width="768" height="432" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jgO6wIZhGyU" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Berries]

Pretty dumb posiing a ling with no discription of any sort.

Does this help?

Ling recipe (https://delishably.com/meat-dishes/how-to-cook-ling)

[Bonez]

Does this help?

Ling recipe (https://delishably.com/meat-dishes/how-to-cook-ling)
There was a doco on Ling last night. Turned out he was a spy for the Chinese Gummerment.:yes:

[Viking01]

Trump Axed Congressionally-Mandated Pandemic Recovery Oversight with Stimulus Bill Signing Statement

In a signing statement, the president undermined a key safeguard Democrats had insisted upon as a condition of approving $500 billion in corporate relief in the $2 trillion law.

https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pandemic/trump-axed-congressionally-mandated-pandemic-recovery-oversight-with-stimulus-bill-signing-statement/

[Edit]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/28/unacceptable-dems-fume-after-trump-announces-plan-refuse-congressional-oversight

[Viking01]

http://91-divoc.com/pages/covid-visualization/

In addition to the John Hopkins Medical link posted earlier:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

[pete376403]

US deaths from Covid19 double in two days, now 2000 or so, trump still wont order quarantine, strong advisory against travel is his best offer https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12320699

[Viking01]

US deaths from Covid19 double in two days, now 2000 or so, trump still wont order quarantine, strong advisory against travel is his best offer https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12320699

See Update 1845 Eastern Time:

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/spain-reports-deadliest-day-record-japans-abe-promises-unprecedented-stimulus-package

and why NY Governor Cuomo is now so concerned: Click on the embedded "state by state data analysis" link in the article.

https://globalhealth.washington.edu/news/2020/03/26/new-covid-19-forecasts-us-hospitals-could-be-overwhelmed-second-week-april-ihme

[pritch]

Coronavirus Response Is a Central Planning Nightmare |<snip> Interesting guy actually (IMO)


Nah. He's a Tea Party guy. They call themselves the Freedom Caucus now, but same ol' same ol'. They are against everything, they are for nothing. They went to Washington to stir shit and that they've done, although there are less of them now.

I suppose he's due some points for getting the famously lazy senators off their arses and on to aeroplanes back to DC, but in the current circumstances that's not a total plus. He did manage to offend absolutely everybody though, and that's some sort of an accomplishment.

[oldrider]

Eagles eye view of the current world situation - God and all his churches have been shut down and replaced by an imaginary bug - now the bug has taken control and power over world governments?

The banking cartel is loading the governments/corporations with ever mounting debt while the "bug" holds/controls the world in compulsory lock-down?

Who is really in control? - The bug or the bankers? ............................ The BANKERS all the way to the .............. bank? :doh: - Don't let it bug you but it's now day 5 in New Zealand. - :msn-wink:

[Bonez]

Eagles eye view of the current world situation - God and all his churches have been shut down and replaced by an imaginary bug - now the bug has taken control and power over world governments?....At least have the Flying Spagety Monster as back up......:eek5: Always have a back up up plan is what my grumpy Warrent Officer use to say.....

[oldrider]

....At least have the Flying Spagety Monster as back up......:eek5: Always have a back up up plan is what my grumpy Warrent Officer use to say.....

Back up plan B?

<iframe width="293" height="165" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lKh_DBNBsEE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[pete376403]

Eagles eye view of the current world situation - God and all his churches have been shut down and replaced by an imaginary bug - now the bug has taken control and power over world governments?

The banking cartel is loading the governments/corporations with ever mounting debt while the "bug" holds/controls the world in compulsory lock-down?

Who is really in control? - The bug or the bankers? ............................ The BANKERS all the way to the .............. bank? :doh: - Don't let it bug you but it's now day 5 in New Zealand. - :msn-wink:


THe families of over 25000 people worldwide might question your "imaginary bug". And you are in the target demographic of the "imaginary bug" - hope you are being careful

[Bonez]

THe families of over 25000 people worldwide might question your "imaginary bug". And you are in the target demographic of the "imaginary bug" - hope you are being carefulHe's not that old. Dad told the family to fuck off when they offered to do the groceries for him. He rocked around to the local supermarket in his 4be4. Get the wheel chair a trolly that can attached to the wheel chair. Security let him straight in. Mean while normies where lined up in a 20 yard que.

I love my Dad. Thaught me and my one year younger bro a lot of practitail stuff when working on his British shitters.

[oldrider]

THe families of over 25000 people worldwide might question your "imaginary bug". And you are in the target demographic of the "imaginary bug" - hope you are being careful

Yes I am thank you very much. - I am more worried about others than myself therefore I am being totally compliant.

Was suggesting peoples beliefs/attention have been forcibly swapped from one imaginary control (god?) to another (the bug?) and the arguments over true or false are almost as intense.

The difference this time is as never before - the churches are closed down and the religious are prevented from attending to their flock - never heard of that before -ever? (Curious rather than religious)

The consequences of backing one over the other and losing appear to be much more favouring the bug than god if you get it wrong?

I find it amazing how compliant the people have been over this - how long will it last and what will it be like when they finally "break" out? :angry2:

[pete376403]

Yes I am thank you very much. - I am more worried about others than myself therefore I am being totally compliant.

Was suggesting peoples beliefs/attention have been forcibly swapped from one imaginary control (god?) to another (the bug?) and the arguments over true or false are almost as intense.

The difference this time is as never before - the churches are closed down and the religious are prevented from attending to their flock - never heard of that before -ever? (Curious rather than religious)

The consequences of backing one over the other and losing appear to be much more favouring the bug than god if you get it wrong?

I find it amazing how compliant the people have been over this - how long will it last and what will it be like when they finally "break" out? :angry2:


ok then but one is imaginary and the other is very real. The compliance would suggest that most people understand the consequences of backing the wrong one. Those who insist their imaginary friend will look after them may well be dissappointed. https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/brooklyn-pastor-is-first-catholic-priest-in-us-known-to-die-of-coronavirus-42702

[husaberg]

Eagles eye view of the current world situation - God and all his churches have been shut down and replaced by an imaginary bug - now the bug has taken control and power over world governments?

The banking cartel is loading the governments/corporations with ever mounting debt while the "bug" holds/controls the world in compulsory lock-down?

Who is really in control? - The bug or the bankers? ............................ The BANKERS all the way to the .............. bank? :doh: - Don't let it bug you but it's now day 5 in New Zealand. - :msn-wink:

Imaginary Bug...........
I knew the person that just died, she was a lovely lady as was her husband who passed away less than a year ago, she lived about 2km away from me or less than 1.5km as the crow flys , are you seriously suggesting we are all imagining she just died.
Because if you are, you are more deluded, than even i ever suspected.

I would suggest if you dont believe the covid 19 is real feel ,free to take zero precautions. start by licking all the doorknobs you can find.

[oldrider]

Posted for TBOTB.

<iframe width="293" height="165" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/qzhZFD19Udc" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[pritch]

It has often been said that the most powerful weapon against Trump is his own words. So there is an ad out that his people are suing to get stopped. It contains mainly Trump quotes so it's hard to see how they can succeed. Meanwhile the Streisand effect kicks in, in spades, although that would be one of the many things the idiot in chief knows nothing about.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfGUpS5s7yA

[Katman]

I knew the person that just died

Name dropper.

[pritch]

I knew the person that just died,

Weeeeell I guess that answers John's question. :yes:

"Does anyone actually know anybody who has contracted and tested positive or died from this Covid-19 (Corona-virus)?""

[husaberg]

Name dropper.

So a nice old lady dying, is a joke to you is it. There is a surprise, gee, who would have ever expected a narcissistic troll attempt from you.


Weeeeell I guess that answers John's question. :yes:

"Does anyone actually know anybody who has contracted and tested positive or died from this Covid-19 (Corona-virus)?""
With older patients it can "be died with Covid 19" as well rather than always died from, as it can add to the issues rather then be the sole causation factor.
One experts predicting 200,000 Covid 19 deaths in the USA
I have have seen a model and epidemic expert with 2 million possible deaths for the USA.

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

[Viking01]

Don,
Having just signed a Signing Agreement revoking the agreed oversight of the money to be allocated to the financial industry, now you go and cancel the just-agreed production agreement of much needed ventilators by GM:

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/27/set-approve-45-trillion-bail-out-corporations-trump-white-house-objects-1-billion

[Edit]
Ignore the above post. Failed to check date of the above article.

GM is apparently continuing with ventilator manufacture as a priority:

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/03/30/trump-general-motors-ventilators-coronavirus/

[James Deuce]

Imaginary Bug...........
I knew the person that just died, she was a lovely lady as was her husband who passed away less than a year ago, she lived about 2km away from me or less than 1.5km as the crow flys , are you seriously suggesting we are all imagining she just died.
Because if you are, you are more deluded, than even i ever suspected.

I would suggest if you don't believe the covid 19 is real feel ,free to take zero precautions. start by licking all the doorknobs you can find.
I used to work with Peter's sister (she's awesome) and I met them in 1992. You are correct, they were both lovely. I used to stop in for a cup of tea when I was down that way on a Coast pilgrimage. I was completely shocked to hear that he had died last year, and now this.

[husaberg]

I used to work with Peter's sister (she's awesome) and I met them in 1992. You are correct, they were both lovely. I used to stop in for a cup of tea when I was down that way on a Coast pilgrimage. I was completely shocked to hear that he had died last year, and now this.
Yip great people, Peter was a fixture at the golf course, i would wager he spent 10x the time helping the course than he ever did playing golf.
He would always use his skills to help others be it fixing saws or using them.
I knew them through my misses, as she was from down South Westland.
She came off a farm at Whataroa

[Katman]

So a nice old lady dying, is a joke to you is it.

No, the nice old lady isn't the joke.

[husaberg]

No, the nice old lady isn't the joke.

I am well aware psychopaths such as yourself, cant fathom empathy stevo, they just dont have the emotional depths past their own shallow emotional insecurities. that's why you can only troll.
No need to worry about your epitaph though, It will not read, lovely person, nice guy or even decent person.
It will likely read delusional conspiracy theorist, internet troll and fixture at the Taupo public toilets.

[sugilite]

Don,
Having just signed a Signing Agreement revoking the agreed oversight of the money to be allocated to the financial industry, now you go and cancel the just-agreed production agreement of much needed ventilators by GM:

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/03/27/set-approve-45-trillion-bail-out-corporations-trump-white-house-objects-1-billion

[Edit]
Ignore the above post. Failed to check date of the above article.

GM is apparently continuing with ventilator manufacture as a priority:

https://www.denverpost.com/2020/03/30/trump-general-motors-ventilators-coronavirus/

Contrast that with the UK based Dyson coming up with ventilator plans in 10 days and first ones rolling of the line early April.

Makes me *wonder* <===== (note speculation Trump defenders) if Trump tried to can the GM ones because the Chinese factories are coming back on line - America first?
https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6145723041001

[Viking01]

Contrast that with the UK based Dyson coming up with ventilator plans in 10 days and first ones rolling of the line early April.

Makes me *wonder* <===== (note speculation Trump defenders) if Trump tried to can the GM ones because the Chinese factories are coming back on line - America first?
https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6145723041001

Interesting to see other players such as Dyson entering the market, whether short term or with a long term view.

My mistake re dates for the GM contract (the link posted earlier related to the day before the GM contract was signed, and not the day after). Don did say that there had been "vigorous negotiation" on price, but who knows ?

Ford Motor Company has also actively joined the party:

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/ford-produce-50000-ventilators-100-days-ge-200330221845175.html

Chinese factories were definitely coming back on stream regarding accelerated ventilator manufacture, though they will suffer from US sanctions to some extent (due to restrictions on certain critical parts). An article from the 26th:

https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1183869.shtml

[jasonu]

Chinese factories were definitely coming back on stream regarding accelerated ventilator manufacture, though they will suffer from US sanctions to some extent (due to restrictions on certain critical parts). ]

Those cunts should be supplying them for free.

[Viking01]

It was interesting to see earlier (when the US CARES Act was signed) that the US Treasury announced in tandem the appointment of BlackRock as their asset manager. Which tickled a few memory cells, and prompted a little searching. One search found the following:

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/03/icahn-called-blackrock-an-extremely-dangerous-company-the-fed-has-chosen-it-to-manage-its-corporate-bond-bailout-programs/

What conflict of interest ?

So now the US has the Fed as the "banker" for this comfortable little arrangement (able to leverage USD $425 billion into $4.5 trillion to buy assets of all varying quality), the Treasury being the purchaser of the financial assets, and BlackRock as the asset manager (to facilitate the purchase and management of said financial assets).

So BlackRock will be asked to steer all the various bond (plus share) purchases on behalf of the Treasury.

Not only is BlackRock very well connected, but it has its hands into just about every significant US corporation you can name. And it has about $6.5 trillion in assets (yes, trillion). There are other large players in the market like Vanguard ($3 trillion), but just concentrate on BlackRock.

It has about 70 offices in 30 countries, and with its own asset holdings, it is probably the largest "shadow bank" in the world (larger than JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank combined). Its Aladdin asset management system is used to manage the financial assets of well over a hundred pension funds, banks and insurance companies around the world.

With about 17,000 traders using this system worldwide, BlackRock has a very good picture of what individual companies and economies are doing at any point. And with a good knowledge of interest rate movements and spreads, it's in a good position to profit.

BlackRock will be very actively involved in the asset (bond and share) buying programme going on behind the scenes while the coronavirus pandemic plays out around the globe.

Against a backdrop of:

https://www.globalresearch.ca/corporations-broke-time-cut-their-credit-cards/5708053

it was also interesting to see another article today, where the Moody's credit rating agency was starting to "talk down" credit ratings for various corporations.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/30/moodys-cuts-outlook-on-6point6-trillion-us-corporate-debt-pile-to-negative.html

So I may be a little cynical, but this looks like an ideal opportunity to either acquire assets (like shares) at "significantly reduced" prices, or to squeeze a good margin ("risk premium")from purchase of various bonds.

Will companies be in competition with one another for funds, and be willing to cut deals ?

Does this look as if it is giving BlackRock some considerable political power as well ?

Well, if you have some control over corporate balance sheets and also over corporate executives whose remuneration is tied to the value of assets, I would think so. And as a significant shareholder in a large number of corporations in its own right, it might even be possible to arrange for such organisations to channel funds to various PAC's or politicians in order to get favourable treatment.

You would only have to look at the largest donors for politicians like Trump and Pence to find out. The same probably applies for a few other Republican politicians (e.g. Mitch McConnell, Chuck Grassley, Kevin McCarthy). I haven't bothered searching the situation for major Democrat politicians, but doubt the situation varies.

So when Larry Fink, the founder of BlackRock back in 1988 (and still CEO) says that the world is going to be quite different after the coronavirus pandemic, he's probably in an excellent position to make that judgement (as his organisation could well be involved in driving that change).

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/the-world-will-be-different-blackrock-chief-says-the-global-economy-has-been-changed-forever-20200331-p54fhj.html

You know, when you have such a degree of control over the Fed, the Treasury and so many corporations, it almost makes you wonder why they even need politicians. And democracy.

[pritch]

Interesting to see other players such as Dyson entering the market, whether short term or with a long term view.


Students at MIT designed a simple respirator using readily available component parts in sixteen hours. Whether it's going into production the article didn't say. Being the US though nobody will probably be prepared to risk being sued if one failed.

Oh, and I see for the second day in a row the stable genius is suggesting that the shortage of masks etc is due to skulduggery on the part of medical staff selling them out the back door etc. He would do that himself I'm sure, but I'm not convinced the medical people would.

[husaberg]

He would do that himself I'm sure, but I'm not convinced the medical people would.

Like how he was practically in the military, he likely thinks, he was almost a doctor, only he confused the Hippocratic oath with being a hypocritical oaf.

[pritch]

Trump is on form, asked why the US is not responding to the virus more like Korea is, he announced he knows more about Korea than anybody. He then enlarged on that by asking if the reporters know the population of Seoul, then told them it was 38 million.

The population of Seoul is just under 10 million. Trump knows less about virtually everything than anybody. (Except his supporters.)

He then proceeded to display a new Covid 19 testing machine, which he removed from the box, and placed on the table on its back. At least it wasn't actually upside down.

[Kickaha]

Students at MIT designed a simple respirator using readily available component parts in sixteen hours. Whether it's going into production the article didn't say. Being the US though nobody will probably be prepared to risk being sued if one failed.


Respirators are a very simple, ventilators are not

[husaberg]

Respirators are a very simple, ventilators are not

The MIT design is built around a respirator bag to make a ventilator.
Very #8 wire.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/ventilator-mit-design-free-health-engineering-covid19-pandemic
https://assets.weforum.org/editor/ZSYLPwJ5xkFPWANDPM4__-PT6v6VbYXcYtPdYn4js3A.jpg

[pritch]

A new Covid 19 test has been introduced in the US. People are advised to package a stool sample and post it to:
1600 Pensylvania Avenue
Washington DC
USA

[James Deuce]

A new Covid 19 test has been introduced in the US. People are advised to package a stool sample and post it to:
1600 Pensylvania Avenue
Washington DC
USA

I sent two.

[pritch]

The MIT design is built around a respirator bag to make a ventilator.
Very #8 wire.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/03/ventilator-mit-design-free-health-engineering-covid19-pandemic
https://assets.weforum.org/editor/ZSYLPwJ5xkFPWANDPM4__-PT6v6VbYXcYtPdYn4js3A.jpg

That's the one. Number 8 wire is better than nothing. Much better.

The Pentagon are reportedly holding large supplies of ventilators and masks but are not releasing them because they can get no instructions as to where they should be delivered. Basically, the problem is that nobody knows who is in charge. The Vice President heads a task force. Jared Kushner heads a task force. FEMA would normally be responsible, or possibly the Department of Homeland Security. Trump has said that he is not responsible. So nothing moves.

[husaberg]

So nothing moves.
Moves are afoot.

A new Covid 19 test has been introduced in the US. People are advised to package a stool sample and post it to:
1600 Pensylvania Avenue
Washington DC
USA


I sent two.

Shits about to get real........;)

[oldrider]

Congressman called ‘Most Hated Man in Washington’ Stands Alone Against Bailout :- https://needtoknow.news/2020/04/congressman-called-most-hated-man-in-washington-stands-alone-against-bailout/ - Interesting interview puts left and right politics into perspective? - :msn-wink:


<iframe width="678" height="381" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/NnBTcYk6B_M" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[oldrider]

Now We Know How Germany Let It Happen?:- https://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/tabid/109/ID/3995/Now-We-Know-How-Germany-Let-It-Happen.aspx - Best not to shoot the messenger until after you have read what he has to say about the current USA/World situation? -:mellow:

Shoot him by all means for this sort of left/right compliant bullshit:-

[quote]No! Donald Trump was not a man of the people to take down the Deep State; he was always a puppet of the Deep State to take down the rights and freedoms of The People. State governors (Republican and Democrat) are taking their Police State cues from the White House, because they know that as long as Trump endorses the plan, Christians and conservatives will sheepishly go along. I’m telling you straight out: This all-out assault against our freedoms would not and could not be happening if a Democrat was in the White House.

I’ve said it a hundred times: America loses far more freedoms when a Republican is in the White House than when a Democrat is in the White House. We lost far more liberties under G.W. Bush than we did under Bill Clinton, and we have lost far more freedoms under Donald Trump than we did under Barack Obama. And right now it looks like the loss of EVERYTHING we hold dear as a nation will occur under the Republican President Donald Trump.[un-quote]

It was going to happen regardless of which party (Democrat or republic) was in power! :whistle:

[Viking01]

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/hours-its-start-treasurys-small-business-bailout-verge-collapse

[Edit]

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/491053-confusion-surrounds-launch-of-349b-in-small-business-loans

[Viking01]

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/americas/2020-03-30/us-economy-uniquely-vulnerable-coronavirus

[sugilite]

Go the money hole!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnX-D4kkPOQ

[Viking01]

https://southfront.org/wells-fargo-a-reckless-megabank-gets-bailout-money-and-is-allowed-to-distribute-government-cash-to-main-street/

[Viking01]

A bit of a long read, but interesting to see how the two party system in the US is preserved.

https://thesaker.is/americas-rigged-democracy-the-oligarch-takeover-of-americas-political-system/

[sugilite]

A bipartisan report saying the Russian interference really happened - what a surprise, not.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-russia-election-inference-senate-intelligence-report-a9476921.html

[Viking01]

A bipartisan report saying the Russian interference really happened - what a surprise, not.


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-russia-election-inference-senate-intelligence-report-a9476921.html

At least the two sides agree on a few things.

Other than starting wars, and approving large bailouts for their banks.

[pritch]

I see that the idiot in chief has ordered the navy to "shoot down" any Iranian boats that are bothering them. Perhaps this is a ploy to drive up oil prices? Or an attempted distraction from his abject failure to provide any positive form of leadership during a pandemic.

The French have concluded a trial of Chloroquine as a treatment for Covid 19. More patients died when prescribed Chloroquine. Nobody warned me about this possible side effect when I was given Chloroquine.

[Laava]

If you havent seen this yet, it's a right laugh. Esp if you have watched the eerily similar Tiger King!


https://youtu.be/MI-LAWTYlZk

[Katman]

Nobody warned me about this possible side effect when I was given Chloroquine.

So much for informed consent.

[pritch]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/22/fears-australian-military-personnel-will-be-harmed-by-coronavirus-drug-trials

[Viking01]

I see that the idiot in chief has ordered the navy to "shoot down" any Iranian boats that are bothering them. Perhaps this is a ploy to drive up oil prices? Or an attempted distraction from his abject failure to provide any positive form of leadership during a pandemic.

The French have concluded a trial of Chloroquine as a treatment for Covid 19. More patients died when prescribed Chloroquine. Nobody warned me about this possible side effect when I was given Chloroquine.

Think that you can safely say that the current US action in the Persian Gulf is all about oil prices, and seeing if it can provoke Iran into some reckless move (that could end up with reduction in oil volumes being shipped, with corresponding increases in crude oil price). The Iranians will have already seen through this ploy.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/486598-trump-iran-war-oil/

Don't worry unduly. China has recently been receiving attention; currently it is Iran's turn, and it should be Venezuela's turn in about a fortnight.

The IMF has already declined Venezuela's covid related request for IMF funding assistance:

https://www.leftvoice.org/the-u-s-is-using-coronavirus-to-push-regime-change-in-venezuela

And the US has already done the necessary groundwork (with its drug running accusations against Maduro, and its naval task force deployed to the area). There has already been one little ship-related skirmish:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-52151951

[Edit]

Appears all is proceeding according to schedule:

https://apnews.com/ec3510ac38818e219a7268668da9920e

[mashman]

I see that the idiot in chief has ordered the navy to "shoot down" any Iranian boats that are bothering them. Perhaps this is a ploy to drive up oil prices? Or an attempted distraction from his abject failure to provide any positive form of leadership during a pandemic.

More likely a response to Iran putting military satellites into space.

[Laava]

More likely a response to Iran putting military satellites into space.
Er, that would be US space!

[mashman]

Er, that would be US space!

Must cost a fortune to rent a bit of ever moving space.

[Viking01]

Don't worry unduly. China has recently been receiving attention; currently it is Iran's turn, and it should be Venezuela's turn in about a fortnight.



At least they were punctual:

https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/Venezuelan-Military-Foils-Terrorist-Infiltration-from-Colombia-20200503-0002.html

https://sputniknews.com/latam/202005031079185377-venezuelan-military-on-high-alert-after-foiling-boat-invasion/

[Naki Rat]

A very well written piece on the position that Trump has put himself in: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/peter-wehner-trump-presidency-over/607969/

[Viking01]

https://www.theonion.com/trump-blames-china-for-acting-too-late-in-coordinating-1843243502

[Bonez]

Shift is sitting bricks prior to thr release of the fully unredacted transcipts of the Intel Committees meetings during the period of the Muller investigation :) They will be released whether he does it or not. :):killingme

[Viking01]

Shift is sitting bricks prior to thr release of the fully unredacted transcipts of the Intel Committees meetings during the period of the Muller investigation :) They will be released whether he does it or not. :):killingme

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/496701-house-panel-releases-long-awaited-transcripts-from-russia-probe

Transcripts listed in the following:

https://intelligence.house.gov/russiainvestigation/

[Viking01]

https://www.rt.com/usa/488318-trump-us-states-bailout/

while Democrat states in the West ask for more funding:

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/497208-western-states-ask-congress-for-1-trillion-in-coronavirus-relief

[mashman]

Obamagate Is Not a Conspiracy Theory (https://us.yahoo.com/news/obamagate-not-conspiracy-theory-214627867.html)... yet.

[jasonu]

Obamagate Is Not a Conspiracy Theory (https://us.yahoo.com/news/obamagate-not-conspiracy-theory-214627867.html)... yet.

Hardly surprising.
No matter what party they are with they are all a bunch of crooks.

[pritch]

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/496701-house-panel-releases-long-awaited-transcripts-from-russia-probe


The Hill is not a good source, they mostly do pro Trump propaganda. They are stating there that the Mueller probe didn't find collusion. They obviously either didn't read it - or are lying.

There was definitely collusion, there were something approaching 150 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian officials or oligarchs. Most of which people like Trump Jr and the then Attorney General initially denied.

Collusion though is not a legal term. The legal term is conspiracy. Mueller said he could not establish conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. By which he meant he could not prove it in court. He also said that the reason he couldn't do so was because witnesses had lied and evidence had been destroyed.

[mashman]

Hardly surprising.
No matter what party they are with they are all a bunch of crooks.

The price of doing business with business it would seem.

[Viking01]

The Hill is not a good source, they mostly do pro Trump propaganda. They are stating there that the Mueller probe didn't find collusion. They obviously either didn't read it - or are lying.

There was definitely collusion, there were something approaching 150 contacts between the Trump campaign and Russian officials or oligarchs. Most of which people like Trump Jr and the then Attorney General initially denied.

Collusion though is not a legal term. The legal term is conspiracy. Mueller said he could not establish conspiracy between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. By which he meant he could not prove it in court. He also said that the reason he couldn't do so was because witnesses had lied and evidence had been destroyed.

Ok. I'll balance it out by reading a few POLITICO articles.... 8-)

[pritch]

Ok. I'll balance it out by reading a few POLITICO articles.... 8-)

Yeah that should do it. :2thumbsup

[sugilite]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300012329/coronavirus-trump-presses-for-schools-to-reopen-takes-dig-at-fauci
Someone needs to explain to the orange turd, though the kids are at low risk-ish, they will become invisible carriers and take it home whereupon some of the parents and grandparents will absolutely die.
Actually, scratch that, he knows full well. He is just prepared to kill lots of people with his cynical "advice" in an effort to make sure everything appears to be "back to normal" so he can be re-elected.
So from here on in, it will simply be "The death toll is a hoax" blah, blah bloody blah. He very likely already qualifies for the term genocide.

[Grumph]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300012329/coronavirus-trump-presses-for-schools-to-reopen-takes-dig-at-fauci
Someone needs to explain to the orange turd, though the kids are at low risk-ish, they will become invisible carriers and take it home whereupon some of the parents and grandparents will absolutely die.
Actually, scratch that, he knows full well. He is just prepared to kill lots of people with his cynical "advice" in an effort to make sure everything appears to be "back to normal" so he can be re-elected.
So from here on in, it will simply be "The death toll is a hoax" blah, blah bloody blah. He very likely already qualifies for the term genocide.

Yep, killing his own people fits the description.

I see that where the initial sites in coastal states are getting on top of their rate of infections, the rural states are starting to become worse if anything than the coasts were.
The worst hot spots now are are all cities in rural states. And there's not much there in healthcare either. Rural hospitals have been closing all over the US - no profit in small populations.

So now he's killing off his rural base. And some of thiose states were pretty close - 1 or 2 % would make a big difference in the vote.

[pete376403]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300012329/coronavirus-trump-presses-for-schools-to-reopen-takes-dig-at-fauci
Someone needs to explain to the orange turd, though the kids are at low risk-ish, they will become invisible carriers and take it home whereupon some of the parents and grandparents will absolutely die.
Actually, scratch that, he knows full well. He is just prepared to kill lots of people with his cynical "advice" in an effort to make sure everything appears to be "back to normal" so he can be re-elected.
So from here on in, it will simply be "The death toll is a hoax" blah, blah bloody blah. He very likely already qualifies for the term genocide.
He knows how it works:

[TheDemonLord]

I wonder how many people will take up a Gentlemans bet that Trump will win the 2020 elections?

No need for Money or goods or services to be transferred, just bragging rights.

[Viking01]

I wonder how many people will take up a Gentlemans bet that Trump will win the 2020 elections?

No need for Money or goods or services to be transferred, just bragging rights.

Is the "opposition team" actually trying to compete and win ? Or are they simply trying to provide some pretense of competition ? ... 8-)

[jasonu]

I wonder how many people will take up a Gentlemans bet that Trump will win the 2020 elections?

No need for Money or goods or services to be transferred, just bragging rights.

I'll take that bet.
I'd vote Democrat if they were smart enough to put up a decent candidate but they have chosen Dopey Joe Biden.
He isn't much better than the old cunt they ran last time.

[Laava]

Yep dopey old cunts all round! Pretty good indication of how seppo politics work really.

[husaberg]

<iframe src="//coub.com/embed/20jy30?muted=false&autostart=false&originalSize=false&startWithHD=false" allowfullscreen frameborder="0" width="640" height="358" allow="autoplay"></iframe>

well worth a watch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=pCy9A-cD_H4&feature=emb_logo

[Viking01]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/complete-collusion-against-trump-timeline

[jasonu]

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/complete-collusion-against-trump-timeline

Most of which you will never hear about in mainstream media.

[sugilite]

It is pretty sad seeing the slowly accelerating demise of this once great Republic. They have gone from a country that in 1944 was able to manufacture a staggering 270 war based aircraft each and every day to these days struggling to produce a bunch of respirators and PPE equipment to save their own people.
From what I can make out this decline has been the responsibility of both political camps.

I can see no way out for them from this whirlpool of degradation. Trump, Barr, McConnell for sure have their foot firmly on the accelerator in the race to the bottom. Trumps teams idea of draining the swamp was to simply dig a big hole next to swamp 1.0, and drain it into said hole to make swamp 2.0, definitely just as murky, and maybe even more so.

The Dems if they are "lucky" enough to get back in will have been taking note of just how much chocolate coated shit the American people are willing to eat, and how effective ruling through division and hate can be. So they won't be backing off that. Trump has set many a dangerous precedent that the Dems will only be to happy to continue, exploit and expand upon in the name of self service to themselves.

Another other thing is, in my opinion - Trump will absolutely do his utmost best to start a civil war in an attempt to hold onto power should he lose this year. His handling of the corona virus shows he gives not give one flying fuck about the peoples lives he is charged with protecting.

I don't see any light at the end of the USA tunnel, and I sincerely, truly wish that I could. The USA have literally saved our (New Zealands) bacon in the past, along with many other countries. Sure they have also interfered recklessly and illegally in many other countries affairs - all part of the degradation. But my family and I, can very well owe the freedom we enjoy today to the USA, and that just makes me more sad that the USA finds itself in the position it is today - with seemingly no way back to greatness.

[TheDemonLord]

Another other thing is, in my opinion - Trump will absolutely do his utmost best to start a civil war in an attempt to hold onto power should he lose this year.

They said that at the last election, they were wrong then, I see no reason why that statement will be right this time round.

However, to talk about his Handling of the Coronavirus:

Trump: We will make Federal policy!
The Media: SEE TRUMP IS A FASCIST DICTATOR!!!!!

Trump: Okay, the States can set their own policy!
The Media: WHY IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NOT DOING ANYTHING, PEOPLE ARE DYYYYYYYYYING!!!!!


The real question will be in 6 months to a year of the Coronavirus pandemic - then we will see what damage, both in terms of Economic and Human damage has been done by the various responses. The NZ Media has been keeping ominously quiet about the spike in Domestic Violence, and I predict that the economic damage will lead to a rise in the suicide rate - all of which will be swept under the rug, so as not to tarnish the image of Saint Jacinda the unquestionable..


I should add to the above - it's not to say that Trump has handled the Coronavirus outbreak particularly well, although I do like his refusal to bend the knee to China and to call a Spade a Spade.

[sugilite]

They said that at the last election, they were wrong then, I see no reason why that statement will be right this time round.
Seriously? Trump won in 2016, so how was that ever tested? And furthermore he has had 4 more years of wholesale manipulation of his bases insecurities to exploit - I expect better from you Mr Demonlord :facepalm:


However, to talk about his Handling of the Coronavirus:

Trump: We will make Federal policy!
The Media: SEE TRUMP IS A FASCIST DICTATOR!!!!!

Trump: Okay, the States can set their own policy!
The Media: WHY IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NOT DOING ANYTHING, PEOPLE ARE DYYYYYYYYYING!!!!!
All fucking useless noise. What did he actually do? His inaction and confusion and misinformation to this day is causing mass loss of life. Not even going to bother continuing with this line of debate with you.




The real question will be in 6 months to a year of the Coronavirus pandemic - then we will see what damage, both in terms of Economic and Human damage has been done by the various responses. The NZ Media has been keeping ominously quiet about the spike in Domestic Violence, and I predict that the economic damage will lead to a rise in the suicide rate - all of which will be swept under the rug, so as not to tarnish the image of Saint Jacinda the unquestionable..

There will if course be consequences for any decision made to fight a pandemic. With 5 US sailors re-contracting the virus, Sweden's herd immunity is very possibly looking to be a waste of life. Personally I'm happy to keep the NZ borders closed until further notice, even though it seriously hurts my business - if it means people do not have to die. I like the options the NZ Government took in this instance. Your post smacks of sour grapes that a politician you don't particularly like got some kudos.



I should add to the above - it's not to say that Trump has handled the Coronavirus outbreak particularly well, although I do like his refusal to bend the knee to China and to call a Spade a Spade.
Except he was praising China to begin with, but when he needed a distraction from the absolute shit job he and his administration were doing - back flip time! The man you admire is a scum bag through and through.

[sugilite]

The turd does not fall far from the sewer outlet.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/donald-trumps-america/300014490/eric-trump-says-coronavirus-will-magically-disappear-in-november-after-us-election

[TheDemonLord]

Seriously? Trump won in 2016, so how was that ever tested? And furthermore he has had 4 more years of wholesale manipulation of his bases insecurities to exploit - I expect better from you Mr Demonlord :facepalm:

I was making 2 points:

1: The people that were making those predictions now, are the same ones who made previously bad predictions (he wouldn't win the primary, the nomination, the presidency etc.).
and the more implied:
2: Impeachment, Russian Interference - exactly who hasn't accepted the results?



All fucking useless noise. What did he actually do? His inaction and confusion and misinformation to this day is causing mass loss of life. Not even going to bother continuing with this line of debate with you.

Whatever he did or didn't do, it was wrong in the eyes of the media. If he takes Federal action, he's a wannabe dictator, if he let's the individual States set their own policy (which as a quick reminder isn't unprecedented given the setup of the US), then he's ineffectual and not providing leadership.

I'm not saying what he did was right or wrong, I'm only pointing out that the attacks on him continued regardless.


There will if course be consequences for any decision made to fight a pandemic. With 5 US sailors re-contracting the virus, Sweden's herd immunity is very possibly looking to be a waste of life. Personally I'm happy to keep the NZ borders closed until further notice, even though it seriously hurts my business - if it means people do not have to die. I like the options the NZ Government took in this instance. Your post smacks of sour grapes that a politician you don't particularly like got some kudos.

Sure, I don't like Jacinda Ardern, it's not like I'm not honest on that fact. However there are 3 key points here:

1: Before the Lockdown, people who had flown into NZ from overseas were asked to self-isolate - lemme break down how monumentally stupid this was: Imagine you've flown into NZ from anywhere except Aus/The pacific islands - it's a minimum of an 8 hour flight, it's also probably the holiday of a Life Time, you've likely booked and paid deposits on activities/things to do - when you land, you get told 'you should stay in your hotel room', ruining your trip, none of the places you intend to visit will give you a refund and you feel fine - what is the average person going to do in such a scenario? They are clearly going to get on with their Holiday. I mean - we have enough trouble getting people to not bring in fruit, Veg and Animal Products into the country at the border....

2: the "We are literally saving lives" Rhetoric - and this is a 2 parter - the first is that everyone is blowing smoke up Jacinda's Arse about how well NZ has coped - and sure, it has coped well, the question needs to be asked though was the action necessary or appropriate - and looking at other countries who have similarly coped well, it seems that what NZ did was an over-reaction. Which leads to:

3: What are the consequences of that action? Now, people love to say things like 'You can't put a price on Life' and other such pithy statements - so let's run a reductio ad absurdum of this - a single person has a super rare disease and to save their life, NZ spends it's entire tax revenue for that year on saving that persons life - afterall, what is the cost of a Life right? Except now there's no Police - Crime and Murders increase. There's no other hospital resources, so everyone else that has an accident or a disease dies etc. etc. So back to our real-life scenario - we increase the minimum wage whilst also stopping a large number of businesses from operating for 4 weeks - what are the consequences of that? Stripping working capital out of the economy, lay-offs, bankruptcies, foreclosures, suicides etc. massive government borrowing, increased Taxation to pay for it, adding even more pressure to the economy, leading to more lay-offs, etc.

So yes, action was taken and yes, it did have one of the desired effects - but it seems it was overkill when compared to other countries and the costs for the action taken are unknown and may be worse than the outbreak itself.


Except he was praising China to begin with, but when he needed a distraction from the absolute shit job he and his administration were doing - back flip time! The man you admire is a scum bag through and through.

You mean, when more information came to light about what China had done he changed his tune?!?

[pritch]

Some interesting snippets of information around. One such was a possible explanation for why Trump did nothing. Apparently the advice he received from senior advisor/son in law Kushner was that if he did anything to prepare for a pandemic the stock market might panic. Trump did not want panic in the stock market so he just indulged his magical thinking and happy thoughts.

Listened to an interesting podcast from The Washington Post yesterday referencing in part the shortage of masks for hospital staff. A factory that normally produces the masks, and has the capacity to produce millions, noticed an uptick in demand in January. They approached the Government inquiring if there was need for concern. Not hearing back they approached the government again a few days later pointing out that they had mothballed production lines which could be put back into service if required. Despite huge shortages of PPE for medical staff all over the USA the company has still not heard back from the government.

[husaberg]

Some interesting snippets of information around. One such was a possible explanation for why Trump did nothing. Apparently the advice he received from senior advisor/son in law Kushner was that if he did anything to prepare for a pandemic the stock market might panic. Trump did not want panic in the stock market so he just indulged his magical thinking and happy thoughts.

Listened to an interesting podcast from The Washington Post yesterday referencing in part the shortage of masks for hospital staff. A factory that normally produces the masks, and has the capacity to produce millions, noticed an uptick in demand in January. They approached the Government inquiring if there was need for concern. Not hearing back they approached the government again a few days later pointing out that they had mothballed production lines which could be put back into service if required. Despite huge shortages of PPE for medical staff all over the USA the company has still not heard back from the government.

the excuses fail when trump in his own words betray the latest attempt to spin off.......
345945

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1237027356314869761

read the comments

[sugilite]

I was making 2 points:

1: The people that were making those predictions now, are the same ones who made previously bad predictions (he wouldn't win the primary, the nomination, the presidency etc.).
and the more implied:
2: Impeachment, Russian Interference - exactly who hasn't accepted the results?

Trump "Free Michigan, they are coming for your guns and second amendment rights"
As they say, where there is smoke there is fire, this was full on flames. Your points are weak in the wake of that bullshit direct from Trump.
And the text you quoted me on has nothing to do with the Russian investigation or who has not accepted what. (Another other thing is, in my opinion - Trump will absolutely do his utmost best to start a civil war in an attempt to hold onto power should he lose this year.) Par of the course for you.



Whatever he did or didn't do, it was wrong in the eyes of the media. If he takes Federal action, he's a wannabe dictator, if he let's the individual States set their own policy (which as a quick reminder isn't unprecedented given the setup of the US), then he's ineffectual and not providing leadership.
I'm not saying what he did was right or wrong, I'm only pointing out that the attacks on him continued regardless.

Just like the right wing press did to Obama before him. Will I find quotes from you in Kiwibikers past complaining that Obama got the same such treatment? I'm betting 100% not. As mentioned what the media say is pointless noise, get over it. What is important is what actions these polis take, and the action or lack thereof that Trump took both fucked the economy and killed thousands. Your arguments look more and more out of touch with reality, because the man you are defending is getting further and further from sanity. I know you like a good argument as you have stated, but I'm beginning to feel it is absolutely pointless to engage you in discussion - as it is all bullshit DYPAAC.




Sure, I don't like Jacinda Ardern, it's not like I'm not honest on that fact. However there are 3 key points here:

1: Before the Lockdown, people who had flown into NZ from overseas were asked to self-isolate - lemme break down how monumentally stupid this was: Imagine you've flown into NZ from anywhere except Aus/The pacific islands - it's a minimum of an 8 hour flight, it's also probably the holiday of a Life Time, you've likely booked and paid deposits on activities/things to do - when you land, you get told 'you should stay in your hotel room', ruining your trip, none of the places you intend to visit will give you a refund and you feel fine - what is the average person going to do in such a scenario? They are clearly going to get on with their Holiday. I mean - we have enough trouble getting people to not bring in fruit, Veg and Animal Products into the country at the border....
Finally some common ground. Yes, self isolating was a stupid idea, it was never going to happen. But the Government made up for it after that and got it right. But due to social distancing requirements, I'm stepping away from this rare common ground and will punt your other points into swamp 2.0 where in my opinion they belong.


2: the "We are literally saving lives" Rhetoric - and this is a 2 parter - the first is that everyone is blowing smoke up Jacinda's Arse about how well NZ has coped - and sure, it has coped well, the question needs to be asked though was the action necessary or appropriate - and looking at other countries who have similarly coped well, it seems that what NZ did was an over-reaction. Which leads to:
You do not mention what countries exactly, but many that had success before with their first measures are now experiencing a much more serious second wave. They did not go hard enough or keep their foot on the peddle long enough. I pray we have not made the same mistake. Time will tell. I'm cautiously optimistic. Over reaction? hardly.


3: What are the consequences of that action?
In New Zealands case, multiple zero case days.



so let's run a reductio ad absurdum
No lets not.


So yes, action was taken and yes, it did have one of the desired effects - but it seems it was overkill when compared to other countries and the costs for the action taken are unknown and may be worse than the outbreak itself.
I don't think so, and yeah, as mentioned a large number of those countries are experiencing the start of a second wave. I'm not sure Aussie have got away with it yet either.



You mean, when more information came to light about what China had done he changed his tune?!?
You mean if perhaps Trump actually took the time to read briefings? If he had, he would of realized earlier that there was the smell of a dead rat coming from the stats released by China.
But he does not read such things does he? As he admits - the stable genius goes on his gut feeling, and his gut is busy killing thousands as a result.
He was never qualified to take the position of President in good times, yet alone bad. Now the voters are reaping what they voted for. And just before you jump on the keyboard, I best head you off at the pass - in no way is my comment to be construed as to what Hillary might have done or not done as President, I simply don't care, because she lost, so no point speculating eh. (Though I have the faintest feeling she would of read the briefings eh ;)

[sugilite]

WTF, a motorcycle video in the USA Presidential thread! Parts of it do apply, a bloody good video by a gifted dude whose work I admire. Seriously, mainstream non bikers would probs even like videos like this...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOwxxsPaogY

[pritch]

[QUOTE=sugilite;1131162342]WTF, a motorcycle video in the USA Presidential thread! Parts of it do apply, a bloody good video by a gifted dude whose work I admire. Seriously, mainstream non bikers would probs even like videos like this...

I've seen a number of his video clips but the production values in that waaaay outshine anything of his work I'd seen previously. I'm going to take a wild guess that Harley didn't finance that though.

[TheDemonLord]

Trump "Free Michigan, they are coming for your guns and second amendment rights"
As they say, where there is smoke there is fire, this was full on flames. Your points are weak in the wake of that bullshit direct from Trump.
And the text you quoted me on has nothing to do with the Russian investigation or who has not accepted what. (Another other thing is, in my opinion - Trump will absolutely do his utmost best to start a civil war in an attempt to hold onto power should he lose this year.) Par of the course for you.

I don't think so - but let's address the first comment, cause I think this is a really interesting point of discussion:

Is encouraging people to defend their Constitutional rights the same as starting a Civil War?

I, personally, do not. I can see a number of arguments that would affirm the above, but all of them require a number of a priori statements, such as the acknowledging that the catalyst is the State infringing on people's rights (and not just abstract rights, codified-explicitly-in-your-founding-and-foundational-legal-document-rights).

But it's an interesting Question.


Just like the right wing press did to Obama before him. Will I find quotes from you in Kiwibikers past complaining that Obama got the same such treatment? I'm betting 100% not. As mentioned what the media say is pointless noise, get over it. What is important is what actions these polis take, and the action or lack thereof that Trump took both fucked the economy and killed thousands. Your arguments look more and more out of touch with reality, because the man you are defending is getting further and further from sanity. I know you like a good argument as you have stated, but I'm beginning to feel it is absolutely pointless to engage you in discussion - as it is all bullshit DYPAAC.

That's a false dichotomy for 2 reasons.

The first being is that I would have voted for Obama (although with hindsight, I wouldn't have) and things like the Birth Certificate story were complete fabrications. I'm not sure if you can find an explicit quote from me during that time period to say that, but it remains true.

but more relevent one is - in terms of national Right-Wing TV news organisations - you've got Fox, Sky News Australia and? What about Left-Wing News Organisations? You've got the BBC, CNN, MSNBC, All of NZ's Media, etc. etc. The select few Right-Wing outlets having a dig at Obama is not the same as the vast majority of Left-wing outlets condemning Trump as Evil incarnate.


Finally some common ground. Yes, self isolating was a stupid idea, it was never going to happen. But the Government made up for it after that and got it right.

You say got it right, I say they made everyone else suffer for their incompetence - which seems to be a pattern of behavior - coupled that with zero acknowledgement from the Government that the reason we had to go into lockdown, was due to the Community Transmission from those overseas visitors.


You do not mention what countries exactly, but many that had success before with their first measures are now experiencing a much more serious second wave. They did not go hard enough or keep their foot on the peddle long enough. I pray we have not made the same mistake. Time will tell. I'm cautiously optimistic. Over reaction? hardly.

Australia and Taiwan are the ones I'm thinking of. Over-Reaction - well that's a matter of Opinion, of course - but I stand by that statement. See below for clarification


No lets not.

No, Let's. It's point is to show that the absolutist statement is demonstrably wrong. The Economy matters because all of those things that we like to do (Hospitals, Roading, Police etc.) have a cost - and ruining the Economy whilst chanting 'BUT WE ARE SAVING LIVES' is cutting your nose off to spite your face.


I don't think so, and yeah, as mentioned a large number of those countries are experiencing the start of a second wave. I'm not sure Aussie have got away with it yet either.

Maybe, maybe not.

At this point, I think that there should still be a quarantine for at-risk groups (Elderly especially, those with pre-existing health conditions etc.) Although even then, I'm not sure it should be 'enforced', more along the lines of 'strongly encouraged and if you get sick and die, it's your own fault for not listening' - Having a layered, proportional response is what I'd have liked to have seen - but instead we had a sudden and tyrannical jump to the most restrictive measure and that IMO was the Over-reaction. Even after 2 weeks of total lockdown when it was clear we weren't seeing the Volume of Cases that other countries had, a review and a relaxation to Level 3 would have been appropriate IMO.


You mean if perhaps Trump actually took the time to read briefings? If he had, he would of realized earlier that there was the smell of a dead rat coming from the stats released by China.
But he does not read such things does he? As he admits - the stable genius goes on his gut feeling, and his gut is busy killing thousands as a result.
He was never qualified to take the position of President in good times, yet alone bad. Now the voters are reaping what they voted for. And just before you jump on the keyboard, I best head you off at the pass - in no way is my comment to be construed as to what Hillary might have done or not done as President, I simply don't care, because she lost, so no point speculating eh. (Though I have the faintest feeling she would of read the briefings eh ;)

Let me answer this in a different way - despite all that has come to pass and come to light, there are still vast swathes of the Media and the political class that are refusing to condemn China.

Chinese money, investment, influence and ownership has resulted in many fingers in many pies.

Upsetting that Apple Cart will have a massive effect on the Global Economy - to the point where although I 100% agree on the principle that something needs to be done, the pragmatist in me says that we've got a Bed that is made and now we have to find the best way to sleep in it. I'm not sure that that sentence quite conveys how much it pains me to say that.

Linking back to the answer - The odor of deceased Rodent may not have been proof enough to start down the path of taking on China (even though without the Pandemic there are and were a myriad of reasons why one should do so) - but when more concrete proof came to light, he has done what no-one else had the balls to do (except Australia and their Inquiry - although China now 'wants to be a part' - one only has to look at the WHO to wonder why they want in....).

[pritch]

Random thought: The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution reads as follows:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The armed wannabe 'Meal Team Six' fuckwits that invaded their state legislature were in no way a "well regulated militia". They should have been rounded up and thrown in prison.

[TheDemonLord]

Random thought: The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution reads as follows:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

The armed wannabe 'Meal Team Six' fuckwits that invaded their state legislature were in no way a "well regulated militia". They should have been rounded up and thrown in prison.

Whilst I agree on the wording, There's various US Supreme court case law as to what the interpretation of 'Well regulated Militia'